From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Dec 1 06:17:10 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:10 2005 Subject: GG2 Bus+ (was Re: Archiving Amiga floppies) Message-ID: <20001201121710.80609.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> --- Jeff Hellige wrote: > At 03:06 PM 11/30/00 -0800, you wrote: > >I still have new, in-the-box GG2 Bus+ bridge cards w/original warranty. > They come with NE2000 drivers (along with other, non-NIC drivers) but there > are also SMC/WesternDigital drivers on the web page > >(http://penguincentral.com/GG2/) > > Hi Ethan, > > That's pretty cool...I don't remember seeing anything on those before. It's been around for a long time. My first ISA bridge for the Amiga was "The Wedge" - IIRC, about $200-something in 1987 - 8-bit only with drivers for only the WesternDigital WX-1 and clones. I got an ST-225 w/Everex WX-1 card (larger than the real thing, unfortunately, because it was hanging off the side of the Amiga and blocked the mouse port - I had to make an extension cable). It was about 200kb/sec because the 8Mhz 68K was wheezing along doing 8-bit PIO. I put together a 20Mb disk solution for $500 out-of-pocket when a CLtd. SCSI system was ~$1000. Think about that compared to today - $50 per meg! After that came the Golden Gate II Bridge Card by David Salomon. When he graduated in 1994, he put up the designs and manufacturing rights for sale; I bought them. The part that keeps this on topic is that while the card is <10 years old, it goes in Amiga 2000s, Amiga 3000s, etc., from 1990 and before. > How much do they generally go for? $99.95, MSRP. I'll throw in free ground shipping as a bonus to anyone on the list (and an ISA NIC while my limited supplies last). Blank boards and a parts list are $10 plus shipping (got more than I'll ever make). > I was referring to some of the shareware stuff on Aminet that had a driver > actually running on the Bridgeboard CPU, passing stuff from it to the Amiga > side. The extra layer seemed to slow it down a little but it was a viable > alternative for those that had the Bridgeboards and a cheap ISA NIC card. Right. I knew about that but I never tried it either. I have a couple of A2088 bridge cards but not enough time to fiddle with it. > ...I already had full slots with my GVP Spectrum, DKB SCSI board and Emplant > Deluxe. That's been the problem lately - most Amiga power users who want networking have already filled their machines. A two-slot Ethernet solution isn't viable for someone willing to drop the money for networking in the first place. > I always like my various Amiga's....it's too bad that even the A4000 > would no longer meet my needs for an 'everyday' machine. Browsing and watching mpegs are why my A4000 is no longer my everyday machine. I used to read news, write code, do e-mail, etc., all from my A1000 (then A3000, then A4000) from 1986 through about 1997 or so. I am ashamed to admit that I just don't use my Amiga much anymore. I suppose Linux hacking has displaced that sector of my time. It's a pity; they were *fun* machines. I spent a lot of time writing code and fiddling with the hardware (my A1000 has a Rejuvinator, a Spirit Inboard, a Starboard and a ROM switcher - OS1.3 and OS2.x, 5Mb RAM, SCSI - about as far as you can take it without adding slots). -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Dec 1 07:10:53 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:12 2005 Subject: Why is it that ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 18:38:20 +0000 (GMT) Tony Duell wrote: > [Sage II] > Mine has 2 half-height 80 cylinder floppy drives (side by side -- in > other words you couldn't fit a full height drive instead). I believe one > of the DIP switches sets the machine for either 40 or 80 cylinder drives, > so presumably 40 cylinder drives were used in some machines. I have one like that. > From what I remember, the hard disk model was called a Sage IV. It was > basically the same machine with a hard disk controller connected to the > expansion bus connectors. The case was taller to accomodate the > full-height winchester (and I assume 1 or 2 floppy drives > alongside it. I have another machine, called a Stride, like that. I was told that Sage had to change their name -- don't know why -- and they changed it to Stride. The Stride is wider than the Sage II and has a hard disk. Some of the (ex-INMOS) machines had a QIC-02 tape interface and an internal quarter-inch tape drive. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From djg at drs-esg.com Fri Dec 1 07:23:41 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: RX02 drive emulation Message-ID: <200012011323.IAA29650@drs-esg.com> >Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2000 15:48:30 -0500 >From: "ajp166" >>From: David Gesswein >>I haven't spent too much time looking at the interface but most of the >>smarts are in the drive and serial communication is used to send >>commands to it. I have a bunch of information on the RX01, the RX02 >should >>be similar. > >Do look. the two are very different. > I don't know if anybody is still interested... I scanned the RX02 technical manual and it is now online http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/view.pl?table=pdp8docs&id=139 It looks like they added some stuff such as DMA and AC low status for the 11 but when in the RX28 PDP-8 mode it still uses the same electrical interface as the RX01. The RX02 drive has 3 different modes it can operate in via a switch setting. It appears that the RX8E does not know if it is talking to a RX01 or RX02, only the software running on the PDP-8 knows. From a programming standpoint you have to write to the command register differently in RX02 mode even when single density media is used. I could still be missing something. This is probably the easiest mode to talk to the drive in from bit banging on a PC. David Gesswein From ncherry at home.net Fri Dec 1 07:36:11 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Why is it that ... References: <1076.370T1900T3685237optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3A27A94B.26C9378@home.net> Iggy Drougge wrote: > > John Foust skrev: > > >I'm sure Chuck will jump in here, but certainly Java can run > >on very small processors such as the Java Ring or the Pilot, > >which isn't far from the average 68000. As part of yet another > >business I administer, www.ezsweep.com, I routinely run > >three Java instances in DOS windows under Win95 on a P-75 > >with 16 megs, so there. :-) > > But what does Java entail in this case? In its purest form, Java is a > programming language which may be compiled for your processor of choice. In > this case, it will run on most everything. Then there is Java bytecode, which > is compiled for an imaginary Java processor which is emulated on your host > system. Then we have the entire application kit used for writing applets, with > libraries and lots of functions, compiled into bytecode and rendered into a > web browser window. This is where it gets troublesome not only for the > processor, but also due to lack of the entire set of libraries required. Java runs on the Palm Pilot (I have a PIIIx). I'm not sure if it's byte compiled or not. On my Linux box I run Java apps which do not use the browser at all. They just pop up in X (I also have code that runs via the CLI). It still requires quite a few libraries either way. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Fri Dec 1 07:36:35 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Ebay, MicroVAX II LA CA In-Reply-To: <200012010237.SAA14028@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Nov 30, 2000 06:37:25 pm" Message-ID: <200012011336.eB1DaZe00570@bg-tc-ppp841.monmouth.com> > > > > I just saw this up on EBAY, the current bid is $1 and it's in LA CA. > > I have nothing to do with this: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=514610380 > > > > -- > > Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net > > A thought for anyone in LA (or elsewhere) that might be thinking of going for > it. It mentions it's got a TU80. That means that it is either one or two > 19" racks. My guess is one rack. In otherwords despite the BA23, this is > one big sucker, and the BA23 is most likely underneath the TU80 (9-Track > tape drive) in a rack. > > Zane > > TU80's are normally in smaller waist high racks... DEC mounted them all horizontally (although the Keystone drive could be had in vertical mounting elsewhere...) Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Dec 1 07:52:55 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Fire up the iron... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20001201134459.SLIF17474.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebox> In some classic computer stuff I read that heating your basement with your computer was a "Myth". I don't know what the author was smoking, but I want some. Even my poor collection vents enough heat to keep the place livable. Of course I'm not a masochist. I still run the furnace. regards, Jeff >At 10:27 PM -0500 11/27/00, Christopher Zach wrote: >>Ok, it's fall, it's cool, and I can finally start working on AI again. >>With the cold weather, I can pop open a window instead of fighting a >>losing battle with an 8,000 BTU AC unit. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Dec 1 07:56:18 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Why is it that ... In-Reply-To: <003101c05b2b$7bac3aa0$2d799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20001201134744.SNYG17474.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebox> In <003101c05b2b$7bac3aa0$2d799a8d@ajp166>, on 12/01/00 at 08:56 AM, "ajp166" said: You mean I was supposed to PAY for all those copies of Mbasic?! Cbasic is ok, but I can't stand writing without an interpreter. .... Jeff >By 1978 standards 50US dollars was cheap for UCSD and far cheaper than >CP/M or even the MSbasic for CP/M. >Allison -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Dec 1 07:58:43 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Archiving Amiga floppies In-Reply-To: <014001c05b04$fee6a8a0$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <20001201140729.TDZO26507.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebox> Not that I've ever has an In <014001c05b04$fee6a8a0$0200a8c0@marvin>, on 12/01/00 at 08:58 AM, "Mark Gregory" said: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gene Buckle" >To: >Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 12:16 PM >Subject: Re: Archiving Amiga floppies >> This reminds me - does anyone here have an ethernet card that would work >> in an Amiga 2000? I've got one I'd like to put on the 'net. >> Not that I know a lot about the Amiga, but don't some come with ISA slots? If so, maybe a jumperable NE2000 clone might work on the cheap? Regards, Jeff >Sorry, Gene, I don't have any spares, but I can recommend a very good >one, the X-Surf, which is still being produced. Some specs: >- 10Base2 and 10Base-T supported >- 20MBit transfer rate (fullduplex, twisted-pair only) >- compatible with Miami, Genesis, AmiTCP and all TCP/IP Stacks that can >access a Sana-2 driver >- Sana-2 driver included, NetBSD driver available in the latest >distribution >- two clockports for A1200 expansions such as Silversurfer and Hypercom - >two IDE ports 3,5" and 2,5" for harddisks and CD-Roms can be activated by >the IDE-fix Software >Available from Software Hut (www.softhut.com) for around $140 US. And >that price is extremely reasonable, given that old A2065s and ASDG >Lanrovers routinely fetch $60-75 on eBay. Newer Ethernet cards like the >Ariadne II sell for $100 or more. >Regards, >Mark. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From kapteynr at cboe.com Fri Dec 1 09:07:58 2000 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Moonraker MAC card & car full of MAC stuff -- help me identify.... Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B1488E@msx1.cboe.com> Maybe you already know this, but the special video card might not be necessary. I have a Radius Pivot monitor too, which I use on the regular video output of my PowerMac 6100. There are different kinds of Pivots, but with mine you just need to know a little trick -- boot the computer with the monitor in the horizontal position and the computer will identify its resolution correctly. After the computer is booted, you can rotate it vertical. There is a software extension that make this unnecessary, but I lost it and haven't had time to find it again. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Jim Strickland [SMTP:jim@calico.litterbox.com] Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 7:28 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Moonraker MAC card & car full of MAC stuff -- help me identify.... I have one for an se/30, would that be of any help? If so it's yours for the cost of shipping. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence Walker" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2000 11:43 AM > Subject: Re: Moonraker MAC card & car full of MAC stuff -- help me > identify.... > > > > Hi Claude. Nice score. > > I'm interested in one of the Supermac cards. I've had this nice > > 19' Supermac monitor (a rebadged Sony 1950GDM) for some time > > without any way of using it. :^( > > > > On a related note, does anyone have a Nubus card that can drive a Radius > 17" pivot monitor that they're willing to part with? I have the monitor, > but haven't been able to locate a matching card. Willing to negotiate cash > deal or trade. > > Thanks, > Mark. > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Fri Dec 1 09:12:24 2000 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: RX02 drive emulation Message-ID: <20001201.091224.-322223.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Fri, 1 Dec 2000 08:23:41 -0500 David Gesswein writes: > I don't know if anybody is still interested... > I scanned the RX02 technical manual and it is now online > http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/view.pl?table=pdp8docs&id=139 Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I had been hoping that someone would do this! These docs make all the difference in the world. I hope some day, maybe some kind person will do the same for the RL02. Thanks Again! Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From lgwalker at look.ca Fri Dec 1 09:21:29 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Moonraker MAC card & car full of MAC stuff -- help me identify.... In-Reply-To: <3A265988.27905.4B751C6@localhost> References: <3A25C6DF.68122A4F@sprint.ca> Message-ID: <3A277BA9.9154.924CEF0@localhost> OOPS. Sorry. That wasn't meant for the list. larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 1 11:02:24 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Moonraker MAC card & car full of MAC stuff -- help me identify.... In-Reply-To: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B1488E@msx1.cboe.com> Message-ID: >I have a Radius Pivot monitor too, which I use on the regular video output >of my PowerMac 6100. > >There are different kinds of Pivots, but with mine you just need to know a >little trick -- >boot the computer with the monitor in the horizontal position and the >computer will >identify its resolution correctly. After the computer is booted, you can >rotate it vertical. Run that past me again slow. Pivots sort of work with a lot of builtin video, but typically only in the portrait orientation. Are you saying on the 6100 if you boot with the monitor in the landscape position, that it will dynamically switch to the Portrait mode later? Is this with or without a special control panel? Details appreciated, ie model of pivot, control panels, cables, is this builtin 6100 video, or one of the card or AV options. From mgregory at vantageresearch.com Fri Dec 1 11:21:31 2000 From: mgregory at vantageresearch.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Amiga Lucas/Frances boards Message-ID: <00c201c05bbb$25f06f60$0200a8c0@marvin> With all this talk of Amigas, it feels like old home week for me. I was wondering if anyone on the list has any information about the Lucas/Frances boards for the A1000. As I recall, Lucas/Frances was a combination 68020 accelerator, RAM expansion, and SCSI controller for the Amiga 1000. It was a pseudo open-source collaboration between several Amiga hackers, based, I believe, in Toronto. The product was sold in kit form, because it radiated radio frequencies in a way the CRTC would not have approved of. By building it yourself, you took on responsibility for becoming a broadcaster, rather than the kit's producer. The kit was very popular in the 1986-88 time frame in Ontario, but there doesn't seem to be much information surviving on the Web or Aminet about it. Does anyone remember this project, have one, or know anyone who was involved? I'd like to research the history of it more thoroughly. Any help appreciated. Regards, Mark. From mark_k at iname.com Fri Dec 1 11:05:36 2000 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: DaynaFile 2 Message-ID: Hi, On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 Louis Schulman wrote: > Does someone know the voltage of the external power supply > (mine is missing); My Daynafile has two 5.25" drives, 360K and 1.2MB. Its power supply uses a 5-pin DIN connector. Output is rated at +5V 2.0A, +12V 0.5A, -12V 0.5A. (I can't imagine the -12V is used.) My unit is probably not a Daynafile II though; apparently the II used a different type of power supply. > Does someone have the software. I have downloaded the two > .hqx files, but they are password protected. Doh! Anyone > know how to crack password protection on an .hqx file? The hqx extension indicates that the files have been encoded using BinHex. This is basically a Mac equivalent of uuencoding, except it knows about resource and data forks. >From memory, the two files DaynaFile3_1.hqx and DaynaFILE4_1.hqx are password- protected StuffIt archives when you un-binhex them. The Read_Before_Downloading file which used to be on ftp.dayna.com (that server is down now, unsurprisingly) said: --- cut here --- DAYNAFILE READ ME These files are for use with the DaynaFILE and non-PCI based Macintosh machines. Beware that these files are PASSWORD PROTECTED. Version 3.1 of the software is free of charge, and requires no ROM upgrade. Version 4.1 is not free of charge and requires a ROM upgrade. For information on passwords or ROM upgrades, please contact: support@dayna.com --- cut here --- Intel's "support" for Dayna products is pathetic, not much point in asking them for help. My DaynaFile has EPROM version 3.1. If anyone has a Daynafile with a later version EPROM, please let me know! To determine EPROM version, you need to take the unit apart. I would also like to know the password for the DaynaFILE4_1 file. Ideally, the updated EPROM would allow the drives to be used with any computer with a SCSI interface. -- Mark From marvin at rain.org Fri Dec 1 11:42:27 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89A References: <00c201c05bbb$25f06f60$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <3A27E303.31C5A61@rain.org> I have a Heathkit H89A I acquired some years ago with a note attached "Bad keyboard encoder on terminal card." Is anyone here familiar with the keyboard encoder? I sort of recall reading somewhere that the keyboard encoder is not available anymore and before I start into this YAP (Yet Another Project), it would be nice to know if there is any hope of repairing this thing somewhat easily. From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Dec 1 12:13:36 2000 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Free 6100 System, SF Bay Area only (fwd) References: <374.370T1250T3004851optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3A27EA47.36B42E51@eoni.com> Too late! My cousin in San Jose is picking it up for me tomorrow. You snooze... ;o) Jim Arnott Iggy Drougge wrote: > > I got this on the Vintage Macs list. I'm not sure if it's still there, but > give it a try. > > -- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Hi everybody, > > The following 6100 System is free to anybody who lives in the greater San Francisco bay area. > I will not pack and ship to anywhere. > Contact me OFF LIST. My location is Los Altos. > > 6100/60 > 24 MB RAM > L2 cache > Apple branded Quantum 540 MB HD > internal Apple 300i tray loading CD ROM > floppy drive > > AppleColor High-Resolution RGB Monitor (Rev B) M1297 > HDI-45 to DB-15 video adaptor > Apple Adjustable Keyboard M1242 > Apple Desktop Bus Mouse II M2706 > > All cables, except this ADB cable is an extension cable instead of the required male-male connector ADB cable. > > System software: > Install disk images for Systems 7.1.2, 7.5, 7.5.3, 7.5.5, 7.6, 7.6.1, O.T. 1.1.2. > > Be sure to contact me OFF-LIST. > > -steve From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 1 03:20:36 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: UCSD PASCAL (P-system) P-code Was:(Why is it that ...) In-Reply-To: Jerome Fine "Re: UCSD PASCAL (P-system) P-code Was:(Why is it that ...)" (Nov 30, 22:59) References: <200011300233.SAA18428@shell1.aracnet.com> <3A27220A.EA868D2C@idirect.com> Message-ID: <10012010920.ZM5182@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Nov 30, 22:59, Jerome Fine wrote: > > OK, this brings up two questions. Can it use RX50's (I'm guessing not), > Having never used Pascal very much, Pascal != UCSD p-System, though. > RT-11 does not normally distinguish > between different devices. [...] > In general (almost always), applications NEVER know anything about the > internals of a device driver - which is why a device driver is used in RT-11 > to separate the application program from the hardware and let standard > I/O calls to RT-11 and then to the actual device be transparent. True, but the UCSD p-System isn't a language, it's an operating system, with its own device drivers. It doesn't run under RT-11, just happens to have similar minimum requirements. As far as I know, it doesn't have a driver for RX50/MSCP. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Fri Dec 1 12:58:08 2000 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: CAMAC stuff for sale Message-ID: Hello all, I am currently negotiating to buy some Multibus stuff from a gentleman named Anton Auersperg (If anyone else has any Multibus items, please let me know). He asked me to post his list of CAMAC stuff to the list, to see if anyone was interested in it (I am not). Please contact him directly at antall@dsuper.net for more details, or to close the deal. He is located in Montreal, Canada. Here's the list: CAMAC system equipment available (Computer Automated Measurement and Control) IEEE 583 qty description 1 Standard Engineering Corporation (S.E.C.) Ultima 3742F CAMAC powered crate; 19" rack mount chassis, 25 slot 1 S.E.C. MIK-11/23 microcomputer system, 16 bit LSI 11/23 (DEC PDP11) supports RT-11 and RSX-11M operating system and all DEC PDP-11 software 2 S.E.C. 300220 MIK-11 memory module 1 S.E.C. peripheral adaptor 1 Data Systems Design DSD-880 data storage; combination winchester and 8" floppy disk drives, 7.8Mb fixed, 1Mb removable 1 S.E.C. E260 8 channel digital to analog converter, 12 bit resolution 1 S.E.C. RTC-018 real time clock, with functions for counting, timing and clocking 1 S.E.C. AR302E isolated input register, 16 optically isolated inputs 1 S.E.C. ORR-12 reed relay contact closure, 12 isolated dry-reed relays 1 S.E.C. IG-604 dual 24-bit interrupt gate; for scanning 48 external inputs for status change, eliminates software scanning 1 GEC IGOR 160206 input gate output register module; general purpose input/output register 1 GEC PAD 160404 32 channel differential input, precision A/D converter; 16 bit resolution, 14 bit accuracy 1 GEC PCI 160901 programmable communications interface; 2 comm ports, either RS232 or RS422 c/w Z80,memory,real-time clock etc. 2 GEC SMC 160303 stepping motor controller 1 GEC SPO 160203 dual 16 bit status in and 8 bit pulse output module 1 Fisher controls ltd. ADC1232-1 32 channel differential input A/D converter 12 bit resolution. 1 Bi-Ra model 32222 dual 24 bit parallel output register module. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- The following literature is available: 1 Data systems design inc. DSD 880x/8 user's guide. with bootable diagnostic diskette. 1 Digital equipment corp. DR11-C general device interface user's manual. 1 Digital equipment corp. LA 120 user guide (decwriter) 1 Digital equipment corp. M8063 SBC-11/21 single board computer user's guide. 2 Digital equipment corp. TECO pocket guide. 3 Digital equipment corp. PDP11 programming card. 2 Digital equipment corp. RT-11 pocket guide. 1 Digital equipment corp. VT55 programming manual (shrink wrapped fresh). 1 SEC MIK-11/23 system manual volume 1. 1 SEC MIK-11/23 system manual volume 2. (drawings) 1 SEC E-260 voltage/current DAC. 1 SEC Ultima 3742F CAMAC powered crate. (drawings) 1 SEC PDP-11/CAMAC support library M 106060 Rev.B volume 2. 1 SEC RTC-018 Real time clock. 1 SEC ORR-12 reed relay module. 1 SEC IG-604 dual 24-bit interrupt gate. 1 SEC WW-006 prototype module. 1 SEC AR 302/E. 1 SEC user's guide to the QUANTROL system. 1 SEC PAB-11 peripheral adaptor. 1 GEC introduction to the CAMAC dataway. 1 GEC IGOR 160206 technical manual. 1 GEC PAD 160404 technical manual.(with schematic blueprint) 1 GEC PAD 160901 technical manual. 2 GEC REB 160905 rigid extender board technical manual. 5 GEC TPM 160805 analog signal conditioning module technical manual. 1 GEC SPO 160203 technical manual. 2 GEC SMC 160303 technical manual. 1 Fisher controls ADC 1232-1 instruction manual 1 BiRa systems inc. model 3222 dual 24 bit parallel output register schematic blue print only. Thanks! Rich B. From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Fri Dec 1 13:10:45 2000 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: PCC2000 Rescue Message-ID: Hello all, Meant to put this in the last post, but..... Anton Auersperg, antall@dsuper.net, also has a PCC2000, headed for the scrap heap. He describes it thusly: It's a desktop unit with 12" screen and 2 8"drives. I think its Z80 and runs wordstar. It weighs over 100lbs. It's already in my truck headed for the scrap heap. I don't have any software for it. Is it worth saving? It has 2 key buttons missing, the bottom and side at the back is a little rusty. Anyone want it? Please contact him directly.... Rich B. From elvey at hal.com Fri Dec 1 13:23:55 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89A In-Reply-To: <3A27E303.31C5A61@rain.org> Message-ID: <200012011923.LAA05709@civic.hal.com> Marvin wrote: > > I have a Heathkit H89A I acquired some years ago with a note attached "Bad > keyboard encoder on terminal card." Is anyone here familiar with the > keyboard encoder? I sort of recall reading somewhere that the keyboard > encoder is not available anymore and before I start into this YAP (Yet > Another Project), it would be nice to know if there is any hope of repairing > this thing somewhat easily. Hi I don't have my schematics handy but I would think that the functions could be replaced by one of the programable logic parts if it was a simple encoder or a EPROM if it was a large translation table. How many inputs and outputs does it have? Dwight From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 1 12:52:58 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: PCC2000 Rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Dec 2000, Rich Beaudry wrote: > It's a desktop unit with 12" screen and 2 8"drives. I think its Z80 and > runs wordstar. It weighs over 100lbs. It's already in my truck headed for > the scrap heap. I don't have any software for it. Is it worth saving? It > has 2 key buttons missing, the bottom and side at the back is a little > rusty. This has the Altair in it's lineage (ok, not really :) But it was made by Pertec Computer Corporation, the same guys who bought out Altair. It's a huge beast: an all-in-one desktop unit with an integrated CRT and two 8" floppy drives. The keyboard is almost a yard long. I have one of these (nicknamed "Herbie" by its original owner) along with a hard drive cabinet, documentation, software, etc. A typical very-late-70's, very early-80's business computer. Worth rescuing, as there aren't too many still around I imagine. The weight might be exaggerated a bit. I didn't weigh mine but I don't recall it being so heavy I couldn't lift it into my trunk. Definitely heavy though. It will be a bitch to ship. I recommend local pickup. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Dec 1 14:57:12 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Archiving Amiga floppies In-Reply-To: <20001201140729.TDZO26507.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebo x> References: <014001c05b04$fee6a8a0$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20001201155712.008ded50@earthlink.net> At 08:58 AM 12/1/00 -0500, you wrote: >Not that I know a lot about the Amiga, but don't some come with ISA slots? >If so, maybe a jumperable NE2000 clone might work on the cheap? The big-box machines (A2000, A3000, A4000) all come with ISA slots, which are inline with the Zorro-II/III slots. The thing is, without a bridgeboard installed, the ISA slots aren't active. They require the bridgeboards, whether from CBM or others, to generate the various signals on the bus. Of course, with them being inline with the Zorro slots, any bridgeboard/ISA combination you install blocks the usage of at least two Zorro slots. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Power Computing PowerCurve, 288mhz G3, Mac OS 9 http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 Home Of The TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ From claudew at sprint.ca Fri Dec 1 15:11:41 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Anobody familliar with Hypercharger 020 Accel. Card for MAC SE? Message-ID: <3A28140D.6383ED8E@sprint.ca> Hi I found this in a pile a boards I am currently sorting... Found nothing on web (just the driver for it). Anybody knows how exactly how this is supposed to fit in an SE? And what do the jumpers A-G do? How about that 12 pin header, how does that connect to the SE? Thanks Claude From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Dec 1 15:12:37 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: GG2 Bus+ (was Re: Archiving Amiga floppies) In-Reply-To: <20001201121710.80609.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20001201161237.008e318c@earthlink.net> At 04:17 AM 12/1/00 -0800, you wrote: >my A1000 (then A3000, then A4000) from 1986 through about 1997 or so. >I am ashamed to admit that I just don't use my Amiga much anymore. I >suppose Linux hacking has displaced that sector of my time. It's a pity; >they were *fun* machines. I spent a lot of time writing code and >fiddling with the hardware (my A1000 has a Rejuvinator, a Spirit Inboard, >a Starboard and a ROM switcher - OS1.3 and OS2.x, 5Mb RAM, SCSI - about >as far as you can take it without adding slots). I no longer have my A4000 or A3000, but still have my A500 and A1000. The A500 has a GVP HD+ with OS2.04 and 4meg of RAM while the A1000 has a Tecmar T-disk (20meg) with 1.5meg RAM, OS 1.3 and a DigiView. I really liked the A3000 but I managed to damage it to the point of constant instability during one of it's many modifications. If it's perceived speed had been a bit faster, it would've remained a really nice machine since the Spectrum gave me plenty of true color video modes. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Power Computing PowerCurve, 288mhz G3, Mac OS 9 http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 Home Of The TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ From donm at crash.cts.com Fri Dec 1 15:24:04 2000 From: donm at crash.cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: PCC2000 Rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Dec 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 1 Dec 2000, Rich Beaudry wrote: > > > It's a desktop unit with 12" screen and 2 8"drives. I think its Z80 and > > runs wordstar. It weighs over 100lbs. It's already in my truck headed for > > the scrap heap. I don't have any software for it. Is it worth saving? It > > has 2 key buttons missing, the bottom and side at the back is a little > > rusty. > > This has the Altair in it's lineage (ok, not really :) > > But it was made by Pertec Computer Corporation, the same guys who bought > out Altair. It's a huge beast: an all-in-one desktop unit with an > integrated CRT and two 8" floppy drives. The keyboard is almost a yard > long. The description sounds for all the world like the Imsai VDP-80! - don > I have one of these (nicknamed "Herbie" by its original owner) along with > a hard drive cabinet, documentation, software, etc. > > A typical very-late-70's, very early-80's business computer. Worth > rescuing, as there aren't too many still around I imagine. > > The weight might be exaggerated a bit. I didn't weigh mine but I don't > recall it being so heavy I couldn't lift it into my trunk. Definitely > heavy though. It will be a bitch to ship. I recommend local pickup. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Dec 1 15:32:51 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Hyperion manuals Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20001201163251.008e31d0@earthlink.net> Hello, Now that I'm moved and somewhat settled in, I thought now would be a good time to ask this. I have a couple of extra manuals for the Dynalogic Hyperion. I believe I have two extra User's manuals and one extra Porgrammer's manual. They are the standard 3 ring binder in the heavy cardboard slipcase of the period. If anyone has a need for them, drop me a note. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Power Computing PowerCurve, 288mhz G3, Mac OS 9 http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 Home Of The TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 1 14:56:59 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: PCC2000 Rescue In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Dec 2000, Don Maslin wrote: > > But it was made by Pertec Computer Corporation, the same guys who bought > > out Altair. It's a huge beast: an all-in-one desktop unit with an > > integrated CRT and two 8" floppy drives. The keyboard is almost a yard > > long. > > The description sounds for all the world like the Imsai VDP-80! I wish, but it's not. It's more like a much improved version of the VDP-80 if anything. It doesn't use the same voice-coil drives that were in the VDP-80, and it has a larger display I believe. It's a different beast. But oh yeah, it is an S-100 bus machine! It has an internal card slot with CPU, drive controller, display, etc., S-100 cards. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 1 13:51:14 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89A In-Reply-To: <3A27E303.31C5A61@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Dec 1, 0 09:42:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3994 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001201/1e1a594a/attachment.ksh From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Dec 1 18:18:21 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:13 2005 Subject: Why is it that ... Message-ID: <004a01c05bf5$76b6a3d0$92789a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: THETechnoid@home.com To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Friday, December 01, 2000 9:05 AM Subject: Re: Why is it that ... >In <003101c05b2b$7bac3aa0$2d799a8d@ajp166>, on 12/01/00 > at 08:56 AM, "ajp166" said: > >You mean I was supposed to PAY for all those copies of Mbasic?! According to Billy G we all stole it. Mine was the $$$+memory for altair deal followed by another 75$ for a working copy (update!). MS compiled basic for CP/M as memory serves was either 350$ or 500$US and it was buggy. >Cbasic is ok, but I can't stand writing without an interpreter. Cbasic was pretty neat as was S-basic. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Dec 1 18:42:51 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: RX02 drive emulation Message-ID: <008201c05bf9$aba18ed0$92789a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: David Gesswein >>Do look. the two are very different. >> >I don't know if anybody is still interested... >I scanned the RX02 technical manual and it is now online >http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/view.pl?table=pdp8docs&id=139 The RX28 added DMA, the RX02 drives while the same physical disk drive (bare) the two controller cards are very different. The older RX01 used TTL of the 7489 and 74181 for its controller while the later RX02 was 2901/2911 based. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Dec 1 18:37:05 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: UCSD PASCAL (P-system) P-code Was:(Why is it that ...) Message-ID: <008101c05bf9$a9fa4770$92789a8d@ajp166> From: Jerome Fine >Having never used Pascal very much, I have not followed this thread very well, >but I can comment on this question. RT-11 does not normally distinguish >between different devices. If the RX50 is DU0:, then the command: >ASSIGN DU0: DK: True for RT11. UCSD P-system is NOT RT11 nor does it use it, it is a stand alone OS with embedded applications and it's own menu driven UI. From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 1 19:25:57 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Classic Cinemaware Games Message-ID: <200012020125.RAA08224@shell1.aracnet.com> I just found out that classic Cinemaware titles such as "The Three Stooges" and "Rocket Ranger" have been put up on their web page for download! http://www.cinemaware.com/vault.asp?vault=games Apparently supported platforms included: Amiga, AtariST, C64, NES and PC Hmmmm..... Looks like I've definitly got to get my Amiga 3000 back up and running! Something tells me I'll be working on that this weekend! Apparently after having been gone since '91 they reformed in September of this year. Don't know if they include instructions in the downloads, but one would hope so. I remember playing "The Three Stooges" in the late 80's on my Kaypro 2000 :^) and always wanted to try "Rocket Ranger". Zane From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 1 17:34:39 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Archiving Amiga floppies In-Reply-To: <20001201140729.TDZO26507.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebox> Message-ID: <866.371T1950T345471optimus@canit.se> THETechnoid skrev: >>> This reminds me - does anyone here have an ethernet card that would work >>> in an Amiga 2000? I've got one I'd like to put on the 'net. >>> >Not that I know a lot about the Amiga, but don't some come with ISA slots? >If so, maybe a jumperable NE2000 clone might work on the cheap? The problem is, that Commodore through their usual sense of C-branded logic chose not to activate the ISA slots (In fact, I think it wans't all that bad, since there probably would never have been any Zorro boards if ISA were widely available), requiring boards such as the GoldenGate2. A mate at the usergroup uses such a board along with an NE2000 ISA card. There is also a driver for 3Com boards using the GoldenGate. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Vi m?ste vara r?dda om varandra - det ?r det enda reciproka pronomen vi har. From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 1 17:29:45 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Archiving Amiga floppies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1065.371T2250T295543optimus@canit.se> Gene Buckle skrev: >This reminds me - does anyone here have an ethernet card that would work >in an Amiga 2000? I've got one I'd like to put on the 'net. There is a silly little solution if you can't afford a Zorro Ethernet card, but have got a PC bridgeboard. It uses the bridgeboard emulator as a bridge to an ISA ethernet card (preferably 8-bit if you've only got an A2088), running a CRYBWR DOS packet driver on the emulator which in turn communicates through the Hydra device to a SANA-2 driver on the Amiga side. Terribly slow (at least unless you've got a 386 or 486 bridgeboard). There are two such devices on Aminet, but avoid the Turkish one. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > I'll maybe do a giraffe/milk/fridge game for this year's CSSCGC. > That'd be good. Yes. Advanced Giraffe Refrigeration Simulator. All the thrills and 'spills' are here as you manoeuvre the milk and lure the lactophobic animal around a kitchen packed with hazards! ** Actual Spectrum screenshots! ** "It's TOTALLY AMAZING!!!" - David Darling Equin0x p? comp.sys.sinclar From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 1 17:58:10 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Archiving Amiga floppies In-Reply-To: <20001130230602.49851.qmail@web9505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1351.371T500T583913optimus@canit.se> Ethan Dicks skrev: >--- Jeff Hellige wrote: >> At 11:16 AM 11/30/00 -0800, you wrote: >> >This reminds me - does anyone here have an ethernet card that would work >> >in an Amiga 2000? I've got one I'd like to put on the 'net. >> >> The last time I checked, Amiga ethernet cards were quite expensive still, >> though things could've changed in a year since I moved off an Amiga 4000 to >> my Power Mac clone. If you have a bridgeboard though and a PC ISA ethernet >> card, there used to be a couple of programs on Aminet that would allow you >> to access the ISA ethernet card from the Amiga side. It was a bit of a >> kludge, but was reported to have worked. >I still have new, in-the-box GG2 Bus+ bridge cards w/original warranty. They >come with NE2000 drivers (along with other, non-NIC drivers) but there are >also SMC/WesternDigital drivers on the web page >(http://penguincentral.com/GG2/) >I've mentioned it before to no great response, but I like to let people know >there's still an alternative out there. Are you parting with them, then? =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. A Spanish MSX Group "Matra" visited to this Fair. I lent Spanish stand to them. They showed and did Promotion play of SEX BOMB BUNNY. And this Game has tema song of Majingar-Z! Why they know Japanese TV animation? K. Ikeda, MSX-Print From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 1 19:57:37 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Classic Cinemaware Games In-Reply-To: <200012020125.RAA08224@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Dec 1, 0 05:25:57 pm" Message-ID: <200012020157.RAA14096@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I just found out that classic Cinemaware titles such as "The Three Stooges" > and "Rocket Ranger" have been put up on their web page for download! Love "The Three Stooges," and how about that PG-13-rated love scene in "Defender of the Crown"? >:-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Whatever it is, I'm against it. -- Groucho Marx ---------------------------- From marvin at rain.org Fri Dec 1 19:51:50 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89A References: Message-ID: <3A2855B6.21C07372@rain.org> Tony, you are incredible :)! Thanks, and I've printed out that info and will stick it with the machine. From what I've heard, that chip is no longer available and I am curious if it is worth the effort to make up a plug-in replacement. This machine was marked "For Parts Only" but I really dislike tearing apart these machines if something can be done to make it work. Has anyone looked at making up a plug-in replacement, and/or has a machine that also needs this chip? If there is enough of a demand, it might be a fun project! Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > > I have a Heathkit H89A I acquired some years ago with a note attached "Bad > > keyboard encoder on terminal card." Is anyone here familiar with the > > keyboard encoder? I sort of recall reading somewhere that the keyboard > > Sure am.... > > I have the Z90 manual here, which is essentially the same machine... > > The keyboard encoder is the 40 pin chip at location U444 on the terminal > logic board. The terminal logic board is the large board standing > vertically at the very back of the machine, and U444 is just above the > connector for the keyboard ribbon cable. > > The keyboard encoder has the Heath/Zenith part number 443-913, and is > described as an S470 keyboad encoder in the IC specifications list. I am > told that there was a standard keyboard encoder with much the same > pinout, but with different internal programming, so the output codes for > some of the keys are different. However AFAIK, all H88s, H89s, Z90s and > H/Z19 terminals use the same encoder chip, so if you find a dead example > of any of those machines, it's a possible source of the chip. > > The output of the keyboard encoder chip goes to a ROM, U445 (444-37) on > the terminal logic board. This translates the keyboard codes into ASCII > (and special codes for the non-standard keys). Whether you could use a > standard encoder if you reprogrammed the ROM, I don't know. > > For reference, the pinout of the keyboard encoder chip is : > > 1 B3 (bit 3 output) (=A2) > 2 Vll (ground) > 3 clock input > 4 X9 (keyboard scan output) > 5 X8 > 6 X7 > 7 X6 > 8 X5 > 9 X4 > 10 X3 > 11 X2 > 12 X1 > 13 Data strobe output > 14 Data strobe control > 15 Output Enable > 16 Repeat > 17 Key bounce mask > 18 Vgg (-12V) > 19 Control key input > 20 Shift lock I/D > 21 Shift > 22 Y10 (keyboard input) > 23 Y1 > 24 Y2 > 25 Y3 > 26 Y4 > 27 Y5 > 28 Y6 > 29 Y7 > 30 Y8 > 31 Y9 > 32 Vss (+5V) > 33 B5 (=A4) > 34 B6 (=A5) > 35 B7 (=A7, control output) > 36 B8 (=A8, shift output) > 37 B1 (=A0) > 38 B2 (=A1) > 39 B9 (=A6) > 40 B4 (=A3) > > The B-lines are scambled before being connected to the ROM -- I've put > the assignments in brackets above). A9 and A10 on the ROM are groudned. > > The address inputs to the ROM for each key are : > f1 0a > f2 2a > f3 1a > f4 3a > f5 4a > Erase 6a > Blue 5a > Red 7a > Grey 06 > Esc 2d > 1 05 > 2 25 > 3 15 > 4 35 > 5 45 > 6 65 > 7 55 > 8 75 > 9 0d > 0 5c > - 7c > = 02 > ` 22 > Bsp 12 > Tab 79 > Q 51 > W 71 > E 09 > R 29 > T 19 > Y 39 > U 49 > I 69 > O 59 > P 44 > [ 64 > \ 54 > LF 74 > Del 0C > A 4E > S 6E > D 5E > F 7E > G 01 > H 21 > J 11 > K 31 > L 41 > ; 18 > ' 38 > { 48 > Ret 68 > Scroll 61 > Z 16 > X 36 > C 46 > V 66 > B 56 > N 76 > M 0E > , 2E > . 1E > / 00 > Space 3E > K0 50 > K. 70 > Kenter 08 > K1 04 > K2 24 > K3 14 > K4 1C > K5 3C > K6 4C > K7 42 > K8 62 > K9 52 > NU1 32 > NU2 40 > > (K-prefixed keys are on the number pad) > > The outputs of the ROM -- i.e. what the firmware on the terminal logic > card is expecting -- for each key are : > > key norm shift ctrl s&c > f1 00 00 80 80 > f2 01 01 81 81 > f3 02 02 82 82 > f4 03 03 83 83 > f5 04 04 84 84 > Erase 05 05 85 85 > Blue 06 06 86 86 > Red 07 07 87 87 > Grey 0e 0e 8e 8e > Esc 1b 1b 9b 9b > 1 31 21 b1 a1 > 2 32 32 b2 b2 > 3 33 23 b3 a3 > 4 34 24 b4 a4 > 5 35 25 b5 a5 > 6 36 36 b6 b6 > 7 37 37 b7 b7 > 8 38 38 b8 b8 > 9 39 39 b9 b9 > 0 30 30 b0 b0 > - 2d 2d ad ad > = 3d 3d bd bd > ` 60 60 e0 e0 > Bsp 08 08 88 88 > Tab 09 09 89 89 > Q 71 51 f1 d1 > W 77 57 f7 d7 > E 65 45 e5 c5 > R 72 52 f2 d2 > T 74 54 f4 d4 > Y 79 59 f9 d9 > U 75 55 f5 d5 > I 69 49 e9 c9 > O 6f 4f ef cf > P 70 50 f0 d0 > [ 5b 5b db db > \ 5c 7c dc fc > LF 0a 0a 8a 8a > Del 7f 7f ff ff > A 61 41 e1 c1 > S 73 53 f3 d3 > D 64 44 e4 c4 > F 66 46 e6 c6 > G 67 47 e7 c7 > H 68 48 e8 c8 > J 6a 4a ea ca > K 6b 4b eb cb > L 6c 4c ec cc > ; 3b 3b bb bb > ' 27 27 a7 a7 > { 7b 7b fb fb > Ret 0d 0d 8d 8d > Scroll 1f 1f 9f 9f > Z 7a 5a fa da > X 78 58 f8 d8 > C 63 43 e3 c3 > V 76 56 f6 d6 > B 62 42 e2 c2 > N 6e 4e ee ce > M 6d 4d ed cd > , 2c 3c ac bc > . 2e 3e ae be > / 2f 3f af bf > Space 20 20 a0 a0 > K0 10 10 90 10 > K. 1a 1a 9a 9a > Kenter 1c 1c 9c 9c > K1 11 11 91 91 > K2 12 12 92 92 > K3 13 13 93 93 > K4 14 14 94 94 > K5 15 15 95 95 > K6 16 16 96 96 > K7 17 17 97 97 > K8 18 18 98 98 > K9 19 19 99 99 > NU1 0b 0b 8b 8b > NU2 0c 0c 8c 8c > > While this might be more work than you want, the above should allow you > to create something that will work... > > -tony From claudew at sprint.ca Fri Dec 1 20:43:30 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Classic Cinemaware Games References: <200012020125.RAA08224@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3A2861D2.9B24E671@sprint.ca> Yes...Cinemaware I remember playing "Rocket Ranger" on my Amigas it was a great game...I played it many many times and never finished it...IIRC there was no save game for this and it was an adventure with arcade sequences...took about 1 or 2 hours to go through all the game... You had to have a "decoder wheel" so you could load the proper quantity of "rocket fuel" in your booster rockets to move from country to country...also a way of battling software piracy...if you did not have the wheel, you just could not play the game cause you could not go no where... Unitl someone took 20 minutes to make a spreadsheet file of the wheel data and pass it along with the game disks... I suppose they are including this decoder wheel "map" in the files.. I also remember "It Came From The Desert" from these guys...same type of game...great graphics with a "movie" type scenario... Claude healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > I just found out that classic Cinemaware titles such as "The Three Stooges" > and "Rocket Ranger" have been put up on their web page for download! > > http://www.cinemaware.com/vault.asp?vault=games > > Apparently supported platforms included: > Amiga, AtariST, C64, NES and PC > > Hmmmm..... Looks like I've definitly got to get my Amiga 3000 back up and > running! Something tells me I'll be working on that this weekend! > > Apparently after having been gone since '91 they reformed in September of > this year. > > Don't know if they include instructions in the downloads, but one would hope > so. > > I remember playing "The Three Stooges" in the late 80's on my Kaypro 2000 > :^) and always wanted to try "Rocket Ranger". > > Zane From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Dec 1 20:46:25 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Archiving Amiga floppies References: <1065.371T2250T295543optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <013b01c05c0a$0ffad8e0$1ec7fec7@pcat> > >This reminds me - does anyone here have an ethernet card that would work > >in an Amiga 2000? I've got one I'd like to put on the 'net. > > There is a silly little solution if you can't afford a Zorro Ethernet card, > but have got a PC bridgeboard. It uses the bridgeboard emulator as a bridge to > an ISA ethernet card (preferably 8-bit if you've only got an A2088), running a > CRYBWR DOS packet driver on the emulator which in turn communicates through > the Hydra device to a SANA-2 driver on the Amiga side. Terribly slow (at least > unless you've got a 386 or 486 bridgeboard). There are two such devices on > Aminet, but avoid the Turkish one. =) Unfortunately, I don't have a bridgeboard either. :( g. From marvin at rain.org Fri Dec 1 21:40:23 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Interesting Book References: <1065.371T2250T295543optimus@canit.se> <013b01c05c0a$0ffad8e0$1ec7fec7@pcat> Message-ID: <3A286F27.48EABE8@rain.org> It has been a while since I've seen books listed that people think are pretty good. I found the 1976 edition of Encyclopedia of Computer Science edited by Anthony Ralston while doing some cleaning. It has quite a bit of interesting information as well as a few pictures of equipment from that era. A quick search on Ebay showed two copies, one currently at about $7.00, and a second one (3rd edition) that sold for about $60.00. A search of ABE showed the average price to be about $30 or so with the least expensive (that I saw anyway) for about $7.50. From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 1 20:51:59 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Why is it that ... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <636.371T2950T2316575optimus@canit.se> John Honniball skrev: >I have another machine, called a Stride, like that. I was >told that Sage had to change their name -- don't know why >-- and they changed it to Stride. The Stride is wider than >the Sage II and has a hard disk. Some of the (ex-INMOS) >machines had a QIC-02 tape interface and an internal >quarter-inch tape drive. Ooh, I've been meaning to ask about that one. There is a Stride at the usergroup. It's a big tower, grey of colour. Apparently it's 68000 based, but what kind of system is it, and what OS does it run? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. MUSIK G?R MAN AV PLAST OCH KISEL! TR?D ANV?NDER MAN TILL M?BLER! From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 2 04:06:00 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Anobody familliar with Hypercharger 020 Accel. Card for MAC SE? In-Reply-To: <3A28140D.6383ED8E@sprint.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001202050600.3a6f78ce@mailhost.intellistar.net> Clause, I THINK I have one of those that's NIB with instructions. I'll have to look for it, I haven't seen it in a while. I've been hoping to find a MAC Color Classic to put it in. Joe At 04:11 PM 12/1/00 -0500, you wrote: >Hi > >I found this in a pile a boards I am currently sorting... > >Found nothing on web (just the driver for it). > >Anybody knows how exactly how this is supposed to fit in an SE? > >And what do the jumpers A-G do? > >How about that 12 pin header, how does that connect to the SE? > >Thanks >Claude > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 2 04:04:22 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: CAMAC stuff for sale In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001202050422.3bcf408a@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 01:58 PM 12/1/00 -0500, you wrote: >Hello all, > >I am currently negotiating to buy some Multibus stuff from a gentleman named >Anton Auersperg (If anyone else has any Multibus items, please let me know). Hi Rich, I have some Multibus stuff including an Intel model 235 MDS system. Joe From gaz_k at lineone.net Fri Dec 1 06:56:25 2000 From: gaz_k at lineone.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Why is it that ... References: <1415.370T2700T3606369optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <000001c05c72$2c6f6960$0101010a@pentium2> Iggy Drougge wrote: > I use my Amiga as my main machine, but none of the browsers has got Java. > Javascript, yes, but no Java. It doesn't matter, though, since I've > encountered about five sites in the last five years which actually used Java, > and about two of those depended on it. It's just used for flashy effects, > nothing else. The only alternative is to use Fusion or Shapeshifter and run Mac Netscape. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | Team Amiga | Get a real OS! http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress | Get PPC MorphOS! From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 2 09:24:10 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: CAMAC stuff for sale References: <3.0.1.16.20001202050422.3bcf408a@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <001501c05c73$ebd875c0$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> If you mean Multibus-I, then I have too! I've got a number of card cages as well as several CPU's, disk controllers, etc. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 3:04 AM Subject: Re: CAMAC stuff for sale > At 01:58 PM 12/1/00 -0500, you wrote: > >Hello all, > > > >I am currently negotiating to buy some Multibus stuff from a gentleman named > >Anton Auersperg (If anyone else has any Multibus items, please let me know). > > Hi Rich, > > I have some Multibus stuff including an Intel model 235 MDS system. > > Joe > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 2 10:25:23 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Anobody familliar with Hypercharger 020 Accel. Card for MAC SE? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001202050600.3a6f78ce@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <3A28140D.6383ED8E@sprint.ca> Message-ID: >Clause, > > I THINK I have one of those that's NIB with instructions. I'll have to >look for it, I haven't seen it in a while. I've been hoping to find a MAC >Color Classic to put it in. > > Joe > Joe, I think you'd have a problem there. The Colour Classic is a 16Mhz 68030 machine (the CC II is 33Mhz). IIRC, the CC II still isn't quite as good as the SE/30 (a truely kick ass little machine). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From optimus at canit.se Sat Dec 2 09:46:33 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Archiving Amiga floppies In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20001201155712.008ded50@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1137.371T1650T10065231optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >At 08:58 AM 12/1/00 -0500, you wrote: >>Not that I know a lot about the Amiga, but don't some come with ISA slots? >>If so, maybe a jumperable NE2000 clone might work on the cheap? > The big-box machines (A2000, A3000, A4000) all come with ISA slots, which >are inline with the Zorro-II/III slots. The thing is, without a >bridgeboard installed, the ISA slots aren't active. They require the >bridgeboards, whether from CBM or others, to generate the various signals >on the bus. Of course, with them being inline with the Zorro slots, any >bridgeboard/ISA combination you install blocks the usage of at least two >Zorro slots. That depends on form factors, of course. While most Zorro cards indeed are full-length, there is a number of shorter cards which will work in tandem with a half-length ISA card. My mate with an ISA NE2000 has got a Buddha IDE controller in the Zorro slot behind the NIC, for example. There were some SCSI controllers of such length, too. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Es gibt zweierlei M?dchen: die einen, die Pullover stricken, und die anderen, die sie ausf?llen. --- Daliah Lavi From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Dec 2 11:32:47 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Mild OT: Parity Apple DIMMs? Message-ID: <200012021732.JAA12136@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Is there *any* source for parity lo-pro 60ns DIMMs? Same physical configuration as the DIMMs that go into the 7200-7600 and others, but 60ns and parity or ECC. This is for an Apple Network Server 500, which is basically an overgrown 9500 with six PCI slots, seven drive bays, and no support from Apple. :-( I spent a lot of cash early on making sure all of its 80MB RAM was parity (it can use parity RAM), and I'd really like to make sure that I don't lose that investment! I just found out from Outpost.com that Kingston, the only source I found, doesn't stock them either, so I'm calling them on Monday to check it out (since their website says they do). Any help appreciated. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Intel outside -- 6502 inside! ---------------------------------------------- From vcf at siconic.com Sat Dec 2 10:50:26 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Complete Apple //e with original boxes Message-ID: Here's a lad with a complete Apple //e system including original boxes. Please contact him directly to arrange for an exchange. Reply-to: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 11:35:30 -0800 From: JoSH Lehan Subject: Apple //e Hi! My family has finally decommissioned our Apple //e that has served us well for 16 years. I am in the process now of transferring its disk images to PC. When I am done with it, I would love to donate the computer instead of just throwing it out. I have: * Apple //e (Enhanced, 128K), in original shipping box! * Two UniDisk disk drives, also in original shipping boxes! * Medium-sized box full of assorted documentation (game manuals, various books, etc.). * Lots of disk holders full of 5.25" disks (about 100-200 disks, total) Would you be interested in this? I also can get, but currently don't have in my possession: * Imagewriter I printer, also in original shipping box * Color Apple monitor, also in original shipping box All this equipment works fine, it's just old and is taking up space here. I'd like to keep it myself, but don't have the space. Would you be interested in it? Josh Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Dec 2 12:12:26 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Why is it that ... In-Reply-To: <000001c05c72$2c6f6960$0101010a@pentium2> References: <1415.370T2700T3606369optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20001202131226.008e0978@earthlink.net> At 12:56 PM 12/1/00 -0000, you wrote: >The only alternative is to use Fusion or Shapeshifter and run Mac Netscape. I used to run Shapeshifter on my A4000 and in fact was an early registered user. It worked great with the Spectrum and it's true-color video modes, my DKB SCSI board, and the Mac serial ports on the Emplant Deluxe. Not only did I run all of the standard Mac 'net applications such as Mac TC/P, Eudora, and Netscape, but it worked great for games such as Maelstrom. At the time, I believe I was running it with System 7.5. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Power Computing PowerCurve, 288mhz G3, Mac OS 9 http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 Home Of The TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Dec 2 12:15:24 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Archiving Amiga floppies In-Reply-To: <1137.371T1650T10065231optimus@canit.se> References: <3.0.1.32.20001201155712.008ded50@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20001202131524.008e3794@earthlink.net> At 04:46 PM 12/2/00 +0100, you wrote: >That depends on form factors, of course. While most Zorro cards indeed are >full-length, there is a number of shorter cards which will work in tandem with >a half-length ISA card. My mate with an ISA NE2000 has got a Buddha IDE >controller in the Zorro slot behind the NIC, for example. There were some SCSI >controllers of such length, too. Ahhh...I've never had a Zorro board of that form factor. I don't think my Multiface II was that form factor either, though it was smaller than most other Zorro boards. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Power Computing PowerCurve, 288mhz G3, Mac OS 9 http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 Home Of The TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 2 12:40:49 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Mild OT: Parity Apple DIMMs? In-Reply-To: <200012021732.JAA12136@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >Is there *any* source for parity lo-pro 60ns DIMMs? Same physical >configuration >as the DIMMs that go into the 7200-7600 and others, but 60ns and parity or >ECC. This is for an Apple Network Server 500, which is basically an overgrown >9500 with six PCI slots, seven drive bays, and no support from Apple. :-( Maybe http://www.memoryx.com/worser500.html It looks like they sell at least three diffrent types RAM for it, not sure if they have what you need. Of course it's *very* expensive still. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 2 13:57:36 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Heathkit H89A In-Reply-To: <3A2855B6.21C07372@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Dec 1, 0 05:51:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1906 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001202/76cb8b15/attachment.ksh From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 2 14:29:07 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: NEXTcube Message-ID: <000b01c05c9e$865a31e0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> I saw my first Cube today! It was in the back of a scarp yard. They had it running but I couldn't find the mouse pointer. The owner also said that the fan wasn't working. There was a laser printer, dot-matrix, 2 monitors, keyboard and mouse. Any warnings about these machines? What OS do they run? Is it worth $75 cdn? From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 2 09:58:42 2000 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: NEXTcube In-Reply-To: <000b01c05c9e$865a31e0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20001202205001.TGKK27272.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> > From: "Mike Kenzie" > To: > Subject: NEXTcube > Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 15:29:07 -0500 > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > I saw my first Cube today! > > It was in the back of a scarp yard. They had it running but > I couldn't find the mouse pointer. > > The owner also said that the fan wasn't working. > > There was a laser printer, dot-matrix, 2 monitors, keyboard > and mouse. > > Any warnings about these machines? > > What OS do they run? > > Is it worth $75 cdn? Grab everything including that printers, mouse and keyboard, monitor, cube. They worth it even at 75 because it's no longer made machine based on NeXT created by Joes after apple threw him out in late 80's. 1. Power control is through that keyboard power button, NeXT will complain if there is any of external parts missing like mouse, printer. 2. NeXT monitors is special to that NeXT. 3. Printer uses standard canon engine, parts from non-next printers is no worries. 4. If this NeXT has MO drive for main storage, that's original run and hard to find correct MO media and SLOW! Nearly all converted to HD, floppy and CD. This adds originality if has MO and you can convert it to faster storage and can convert back to MO for originality's sake. The third-party support and parts is still out on 'net. I know of at least one people who owns few NeXTs and use them locally. I think. Jason From univac2 at earthlink.net Sat Dec 2 15:00:33 2000 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: RL01 Help Needed Message-ID: <3A2962F1.9E566467@earthlink.net> I recently got another PDP-11/34 (partly because it was local, but mostly for the three RL01 drives it came with). It is working perfectly, and I get the console emulator prompt on the terminal. What should I do before I fire up the RL01 drives? I have a lot of RL01 packs including RSX-11M. Needless to say, I haven't put them in the drive yet. Thanks, Owen From dogas at bellsouth.net Sat Dec 2 14:55:41 2000 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: NEXTcube References: <000b01c05c9e$865a31e0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <019f01c05ca2$3c6d7e80$2f784ed8@DOMAIN> >From Mike Kenzie Hi Mike, Those Next Cube are cool . I just found my first partial Cube (I got the Cube, Keyboard, Mouse for $15 one time at an auction and the monitor (it took $60 to win it) the next time, so your $70 machine sounds real reasonable to me. They go for alot on Ebay and you'd make money doing that. But they are awesome machines with a neat objective development os (Mathematica was included in academic versions) that cost around $10K. They came with Maxtor 500 or 700 meg harddrives with NextStep on them and several apps were availalbe too. Also look for the MagnetOptical(I think) 250meg r/w drive and high capacity floppy (all of which were missing in mine...) Go for it and good luck with it... Or if you want to send it to a caring home...;) Cheers - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From azog at azog.org Sat Dec 2 15:04:39 2000 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: NEXTcube References: <000b01c05c9e$865a31e0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <000b01c05ca3$7c49a640$2001a8c0@azog.org> hoobooy - $75? For a cube! They sell for $1,000's on e-bay somtimes! A _VERY_ sought after machine. Natively, they run NeXTStep. They may run Linux and/or BSD varients. Regardless, GRAB IT :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Kenzie" To: Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 3:29 PM Subject: NEXTcube > I saw my first Cube today! > > It was in the back of a scarp yard. They had it running but > I couldn't find the mouse pointer. > > The owner also said that the fan wasn't working. > > There was a laser printer, dot-matrix, 2 monitors, keyboard > and mouse. > > Any warnings about these machines? > > What OS do they run? > > Is it worth $75 cdn? > > > From dogas at bellsouth.net Sat Dec 2 15:12:07 2000 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: NEXTcube References: <000b01c05c9e$865a31e0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <01b001c05ca4$87cb3f50$2f784ed8@DOMAIN> almost related... The book "Steve Jobs and The NeXT Big Thing" is a great read if you can find it. ;) - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 2 16:13:32 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: NEXTcube References: <000b01c05c9e$865a31e0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <003b01c05cad$df4c6fc0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Kenzie" To: Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 3:29 PM Subject: NEXTcube > I saw my first Cube today! > > It was in the back of a scarp yard. They had it running but > I couldn't find the mouse pointer. > > The owner also said that the fan wasn't working. > > There was a laser printer, dot-matrix, 2 monitors, keyboard > and mouse. And the manuals , 2 CD's and floppy disk One monitor looks like VGA and the other has the big pins and the little ones. It was all on a black desk and looked cool. It came from the local Science and Technology Museum. I left the scanner behind because I was out of cash and it didn't have a NEXT logo on it. From vcf at siconic.com Sat Dec 2 15:40:43 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Need (2) TRS-80 Model 1 power supplies Message-ID: I'm in need of 2 TRS-80 (Model 1) power supplies, working of course. Does anyone have any to sell to me? Please contact me directly off-list. Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 2 15:43:22 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: NEXTcube In-Reply-To: <000b01c05c9e$865a31e0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Mike Kenzie wrote: > I saw my first Cube today! > > It was in the back of a scarp yard. They had it running but > I couldn't find the mouse pointer. > > The owner also said that the fan wasn't working. > > There was a laser printer, dot-matrix, 2 monitors, keyboard > and mouse. > > Any warnings about these machines? > > What OS do they run? > > Is it worth $75 cdn? CDN$75? Yeah, that's a pretty damn good price when you're getting everything else with it. I assume the laser printer is the black, NeXT variety? Who made the dot matrix? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 2 16:57:43 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: NEXTcube References: Message-ID: <000a01c05cb3$4f326ce0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 4:43 PM Subject: Re: NEXTcube > On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Mike Kenzie wrote: > > > CDN$75? Yeah, that's a pretty damn good price when you're getting > everything else with it. I assume the laser printer is the black, NeXT > variety? Who made the dot matrix? The label says Next, it has 2 SCSI ports on the printer. I can't find a floppy on the cube and the slot in the front doesn't look quite right for a CD. It also has the 3.0 3.1 and 3.2 CD's as well as the developer CD's. I didn't see a sound box. It cost me an extra $45 to get the second printer and the second monitor. And I then found the manuals and CD's in the desk drawer. From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Dec 2 17:43:56 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: OpenBSD/VAX! In-Reply-To: <019f01c05ca2$3c6d7e80$2f784ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <20001202233448.UZZN24833.femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebox> With the most current version (2.8), OpenBSD has added a Vax port which supports several vaxen including the Vaxstation 4000/60 and the 3100. Come and Get It! Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 2 17:34:57 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: RL01 Help Needed In-Reply-To: <3A2962F1.9E566467@earthlink.net> Message-ID: >I recently got another PDP-11/34 (partly because it was local, but >mostly for the three RL01 drives it came with). It is working perfectly, >and I get the console emulator prompt on the terminal. What should I do >before I fire up the RL01 drives? I have a lot of RL01 packs including >RSX-11M. Needless to say, I haven't put them in the drive yet. > >Thanks, >Owen How clean are they inside? The first two RL02 drives I got were so bad I had to do major cleaning including carefully cleaning the disk heads. I cleaned the inside with a damp lint-free cloth, and the heads with Radio-Shack tape head cleaner and swabs (a personal favorite for TK50 drives, BTW). It's been long enough since I've messed with any of my RL0x drives that I can't remember if there are filters to check. Then try powering them on without packs in them. Then with packs you don't care about (or I should say as much about). Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Dec 2 17:09:34 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: NEXTcube In-Reply-To: <000b01c05c9e$865a31e0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: >It was in the back of a scarp yard. They had it running but >I couldn't find the mouse pointer. >There was a laser printer, dot-matrix, 2 monitors, keyboard >and mouse. >Is it worth $75 cdn? A place near me just scrapped about 20 of these systems (cubes and slabs), before I found out of course, but even if I was there in time I would not have wanted more than "maybe" one complete system and some parts, and would not have paid US $50. Maybe I would have paid $50, but half that is more like it unless it was REALLY clean and had some software and documents. Sure it LOOKS great, but functionally it isn't much different from any 10 year old mac, EXCEPT everything is proprietary so its a PITA to find parts, software, etc. With NextStep available for MUCH newer and faster hardware, ownership has to be one of those "collector" things. The question I try to seriously ask myself is; "Do I really want it?", or "Would anybody else really want it", or the final "How much of a total ass will I feel like if I let this get scrapped, dumped, etc." BTW I did just look on the almighty eBay, and a bunch of Next stuff is selling/sold with the last couple of complete Cube systems going for $500 and $200, and new in the box printers about $280. Given the size, weight, and variation on sales prices I don't know if I would bring one home just to sell and pack for a profit. Most likely yes, but I know I would grumble all the way to the bank. Is anyone on the list an ACTIVE Next user or collector? From frustum at pacbell.net Sat Dec 2 17:56:56 2000 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Solace, the Sol computer emulator, version 2.1 Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001202154629.00b9ef00@pacbell.net> Well it has been five months of about 7 hours a week of work on Solace, SOL Anachronistic Computer Emulator, and a new version is ready. You may also recall a short thread from about a month ago about a Sol on ebay that had been modified for Tibetan fonts. Well, I was already in contact with that owner and he downloaded the fonts before he sold the machine. They are now supported by Solace. If you want to see what a BASIC program looks like in Dzonkha or Devanagri script, I know of no better way than Solace. :-) I've fixed some bugs, improved a few things here and there, but the main new feature is that I've built an integrated debugger. Oh, and this release supplies all the source code and other resources required to build it. Solace web page: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/solace/solace.html Solace release notes: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/solace/relnotes.txt Debugger documentation: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/solace/solace_dbg.html Main Sol web page: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/sol.html In time I plan on doing more work, but I'm going to take a little time off of that and spend some more time getting Sol docs online so that the three other people who care can make use of them. :-) All suggestions, bug reports, and donations of items for the Sol archive are welcomed. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From red at bears.org Sat Dec 2 18:13:16 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: NEXTcube In-Reply-To: <000a01c05cb3$4f326ce0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Mike Kenzie wrote: > The label says Next, it has 2 SCSI ports on the printer. I > can't find a floppy on the cube and the slot in the front > doesn't look quite right for a CD. It also has the 3.0 3.1 > and 3.2 CD's as well as the developer CD's. The printer is NeXT's. It's a four-colour inkjet printer with Canon mechanics. I'm led to believe that this particular printer really sucks down the ink. You may have trouble finding ink cartridges to fit the printer. I don't recall offhand which cartridges it uses, but I believe you can find this information in the NeXT FAQ. You got an exceptional deal, especially if one of those cubes has a connector into which that video cable with the 'big and little pins' fits. The card sporting that connector often sells for several hundred dollars on its own. ok r. From red at bears.org Sat Dec 2 18:20:20 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: NEXTcube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > Is anyone on the list an ACTIVE Next user or collector? Yes. I have seven boxes here running NEXTSTEP. Four HP 715 systems, providing internet services. An '040 Cube. A NeXTstation. and my daily-driver, a 133 MHz Pentium. It is by far the least offensive system I have ever worked with, though by now it's fairly long in the tooth. It does everything I need it to. I hope MacOS X offers enough that I can finally feel good about moving to a 'current' platform. I think I know how longtime CP/M users felt during the late '80s. ok r. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Dec 2 18:41:17 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: NEXTcube In-Reply-To: <000b01c05ca3$7c49a640$2001a8c0@azog.org> from Billy D'Augustine at "Dec 2, 0 04:04:39 pm" Message-ID: <200012030041.QAA13150@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > hoobooy - $75? For a cube! They sell for $1,000's on e-bay somtimes! A > _VERY_ sought after machine. And $75 CDN at that. That's like, what, US$3? ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. ---------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Dec 2 18:53:18 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Mild OT: Parity Apple DIMMs? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Dec 2, 0 10:40:49 am" Message-ID: <200012030053.QAA19914@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Is there *any* source for parity lo-pro 60ns DIMMs? Same physical > >configuration > >as the DIMMs that go into the 7200-7600 and others, but 60ns and parity or > >ECC. This is for an Apple Network Server 500, which is basically an overgrown > >9500 with six PCI slots, seven drive bays, and no support from Apple. :-( > > Maybe http://www.memoryx.com/worser500.html > > It looks like they sell at least three diffrent types RAM for it, not sure > if they have what you need. Of course it's *very* expensive still. Yeah, I'm already prepared to get bitten badly in the pocketbook. The order I had with Kingston/Outpost was $300+ (cough) until they decided that they *weren't* carrying the RAM and cancelled the order. Lovely, that. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Every new beginning comes from some other beginning's end. -- "Closing Time" From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Dec 2 19:59:11 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: NEXTcube In-Reply-To: References: <000b01c05c9e$865a31e0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20001202205911.00938da4@earthlink.net> At 03:09 PM 12/2/00 -0800, you wrote: >Is anyone on the list an ACTIVE Next user or collector? Over the years I've had two nearly identical color 'slabs', both with the 17" color monitors. The OS itself is quite different than the current Mac OS, so I don't believe the comparison between the NeXT and any 10 year old Mac is a valid one. It's VERY VERY stable and I love the high resolution of the Megapixel displays. Not to mention, the whole system just looks cool as heck! Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Power Computing PowerCurve, 288mhz G3, Mac OS 9 http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 Home Of The TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ From cisin at xenosoft.com Sat Dec 2 20:36:37 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Need (2) TRS-80 Model 1 power supplies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > I'm in need of 2 TRS-80 (Model 1) power supplies, working of course. Does > anyone have any to sell to me? Do you have the old [dead] ones? I don't think that I have any more (Eric got most of my TRS-80 stuff), but they hardly ever have anything go wrong except the fuse in them. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From univac2 at earthlink.net Sat Dec 2 21:12:21 2000 From: univac2 at earthlink.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: RL01 Help Needed References: Message-ID: <3A29BA15.A345044B@earthlink.net> I powered one up to look inside (I couldn't get it open without turning it on) and it had a pack inside it. It looks brand new inside. Should I go for broke and try booting from the RSX-11M pack? Also -- what is the procedure for booting from it? Thanks, Owen From vaxman at uswest.net Sat Dec 2 21:07:41 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Web site hosting In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20001202205911.00938da4@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Well, now that I have my 11x17 sheetfed scanner up and working, and a legal copy of Acrobat on order, I don't really have any excuses not to scan the piles of VAX documentation I have cluttering my house... (Okay, so they're small piles) Anybody here have any experience with tzo.com? For $100/2yr they will attach your domain name (with DNS service if I understand correctly) to a Dynamic IP address. Since uswest.net wants to charge several limbs to host my domain name+static IP, this seems like a smoking deal... Comments? Alternate solutions? I'd prefer to NOT pay someone to store multi-megabyte documents of questionable copyright status... Especially since 80GB ATA drives are available for <$300. clint PS I promised someone a scan of the 780 FPU T.M... Contact OL for an early copy... PPS At some point I will be offering scanning (or re-scanning) services of DEC documentation, with the intent of capturing them at 600 DPI, and making available several different resolutions from a website (or FTP for those people who can't/won't run a browser on their old plastic)... From optimus at canit.se Sat Dec 2 21:00:23 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: Archiving Amiga floppies In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20001202131524.008e3794@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <1039.372T1150T2404339optimus@canit.se> Jeff Hellige skrev: >At 04:46 PM 12/2/00 +0100, you wrote: >>That depends on form factors, of course. While most Zorro cards indeed are >>full-length, there is a number of shorter cards which will work in tandem >with >>a half-length ISA card. My mate with an ISA NE2000 has got a Buddha IDE >>controller in the Zorro slot behind the NIC, for example. There were some >SCSI >>controllers of such length, too. > Ahhh...I've never had a Zorro board of that form factor. I don't think my >Multiface II was that form factor either, though it was smaller than most >other Zorro boards. The Buddha is really miniscule, just a 4?12 cm or so piece of board with some rows of pins for flat cables. As for SCSI controllers, I believe the Trumpcard or Grandslam ones are small, too. After all, they were designed to fit into an external A500 case as well. The MFC, at least version 3, should also do it, but I haven't got the hardware at hand in order to check it out. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers. From optimus at canit.se Sat Dec 2 21:31:25 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:14 2005 Subject: NEXTcube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <857.372T1250T2714735optimus@canit.se> r. 'bear' stricklin skrev: >On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: >> Is anyone on the list an ACTIVE Next user or collector? >Yes. >I have seven boxes here running NEXTSTEP. >It is by far the least offensive system I have ever worked with, though by >now it's fairly long in the tooth. It does everything I need it to. I hope >MacOS X offers enough that I can finally feel good about moving to a >'current' platform. What's it like, working with NeXT as your main OS? >I think I know how longtime CP/M users felt during the late '80s. BTW, does anyone know of any CP/M installations still in use? The accounting bureau which my father employed finally moved off their CP/M system two years ago or so, but if they could do it, perhaps is there still hope. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Life begins at '030. Fun begins at '040. Impotence begins at '86. From optimus at canit.se Sat Dec 2 21:41:25 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:15 2005 Subject: Solace, the Sol computer emulator, version 2.1 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001202154629.00b9ef00@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <346.372T1250T2814739optimus@canit.se> Jim Battle skrev: >by Solace. If you want to see what a BASIC program looks like in >Dzonkha or Devanagri script, I know of no better way than Solace. :-) Dzonkha? Is this in any way related to the Finnish Gameboy emulator "Wzonka- lad"? =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance. From marvin at rain.org Sat Dec 2 22:05:00 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:15 2005 Subject: Old Capacitors References: <3A29BA15.A345044B@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3A29C66C.DAA0EB8B@rain.org> One of the things I have managed to "collect" are a number of the older capacitors used as filters in early linear power supplies. I tend to just toss any that have dents in them, but does anyone have a use for these things? Also for the ones that I am tossing, do they have any recycle value? These are ones that are from perhaps 1" to 3" in diameter and probably 4" - 6" tall with the ratings at XX,000 MFD at < 25VDC or so. From Hotdog23 at aol.com Sun Dec 3 02:23:16 2000 From: Hotdog23 at aol.com (Hotdog23@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:15 2005 Subject: i have a fujitsu m2444ac Message-ID: that i want to get rid of. is anyone interested? i also have some tapes too. steve yaw From red at bears.org Sun Dec 3 02:36:14 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:15 2005 Subject: NEXTcube In-Reply-To: <857.372T1250T2714735optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 3 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: > What's it like, working with NeXT as your main OS? Like working with any other system, I suppose. There are times when I'm disappointed at not having access to certain niceties of modern computing, but the system is very stable and stays out of my way. It is perhaps the most well-conceived OS to ever have been on the market. It seems to attract a certain class of developer, too, which translates for the most part into applications which do their job well, and work in predictable ways. I can't view quicktime movies or listen to real audio streams or play the latest games or crash my browser with crappy javascript, but for the most part I don't feel like I'm missing anything (except the quicktime bit). NEXTSTEP is the one system that, despite heavy use of, I have yet to be frustrated by. That says a lot. ok r. From lgwalker at look.ca Sun Dec 3 11:02:08 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:15 2005 Subject: Anobody familliar with Hypercharger 020 Accel. Card for MAC SE? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20001202050600.3a6f78ce@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3A2A3640.25566.13CE1952@localhost> > >Clause, > > > > I THINK I have one of those that's NIB with instructions. I'll > > have to > >look for it, I haven't seen it in a while. I've been hoping to find a > >MAC Color Classic to put it in. > > > > Joe > > > > Joe, > I think you'd have a problem there. The Colour Classic is a 16Mhz > 68030 machine (the CC II is 33Mhz). IIRC, the CC II still isn't quite > as good as the SE/30 (a truely kick ass little machine). > > Zane Nope. Both the Color Classic and the Classic II as well as the SE-30s were 68030 16Mhz machines. The CC was a little slower than the II due to the color draw. But yes the SE/30 is reputed to be faster. ciao larry > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | > healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | > healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | > Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | > and Zane's Computer Museum. | | > http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Dec 3 11:39:14 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:15 2005 Subject: Anobody familliar with Hypercharger 020 Accel. Card for MAC SE? In-Reply-To: <3A2A3640.25566.13CE1952@localhost> References: <3.0.1.16.20001202050600.3a6f78ce@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3A2A3640.25566.13CE1952@localhost> Message-ID: > Nope. Both the Color Classic and the Classic II as well as the >SE-30s were 68030 16Mhz machines. The CC was a little slower >than the II due to the color draw. But yes the SE/30 is reputed to >be faster. Larry, I'm afraid you're wrong there....the CC II was clocked at 33mhz and had a true 32 bit data path while the CC was based on a 16 bit data path, the same as the LC series, and was clocked at 16 mhz. All were based on the 68030. The 16bit data path is what crippled the CC so badly, not the 16mhz clock. It's said that it only had roughly 60-70 % of the speed of the SE/30. Jeff (who is happy to be back on his desktop machine after 3 weeks!) -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 3 11:59:34 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:15 2005 Subject: Anobody familliar with Hypercharger 020 Accel. Card for MAC SE? In-Reply-To: <3A2A3640.25566.13CE1952@localhost> References: <3.0.1.16.20001202050600.3a6f78ce@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: >> I think you'd have a problem there. The Colour Classic is a 16Mhz >> 68030 machine (the CC II is 33Mhz). IIRC, the CC II still isn't quite >> as good as the SE/30 (a truely kick ass little machine). >> >> Zane > > Nope. Both the Color Classic and the Classic II as well as the >SE-30s were 68030 16Mhz machines. The CC was a little slower >than the II due to the color draw. But yes the SE/30 is reputed to >be faster. > >ciao larry Oops, you've got me on the SE/30, that's what I get for going from memory on a machine I've not used in a couple years. However, the Colour Classic II was a 33Mhz machine, but it was only sold in Asia. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From west at tseinc.com Sun Dec 3 12:27:40 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:15 2005 Subject: Web site hosting References: Message-ID: <000d01c05d56$b93b0f40$418653d1@fozzie> My hosting offer to anyone on the list still stands.... I'll host any classicmp related website on my ISP business at no charge. Just email me if interested. Jay West jlwest@tseinc.com or west@tseinc.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) To: Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 9:07 PM Subject: Web site hosting > > Well, now that I have my 11x17 sheetfed scanner up and working, and > a legal copy of Acrobat on order, I don't really have any excuses > not to scan the piles of VAX documentation I have cluttering my house... > (Okay, so they're small piles) > > Anybody here have any experience with tzo.com? For $100/2yr they will > attach your domain name (with DNS service if I understand correctly) > to a Dynamic IP address. Since uswest.net wants to charge several > limbs to host my domain name+static IP, this seems like a smoking > deal... > > Comments? Alternate solutions? I'd prefer to NOT pay someone to > store multi-megabyte documents of questionable copyright status... > Especially since 80GB ATA drives are available for <$300. > > clint > > PS I promised someone a scan of the 780 FPU T.M... Contact OL for an > early copy... > > PPS At some point I will be offering scanning (or re-scanning) > services of DEC documentation, with the intent of capturing them > at 600 DPI, and making available several different resolutions > from a website (or FTP for those people who can't/won't run > a browser on their old plastic)... > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 3 13:18:42 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:15 2005 Subject: Need (2) TRS-80 Model 1 power supplies In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Dec 2, 0 06:36:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 518 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001203/d3b10098/attachment.ksh From witchy at i12.com Sun Dec 3 13:56:14 2000 From: witchy at i12.com (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:15 2005 Subject: Weekend's finds Message-ID: Hi Folks, I don't know if this'll work since I'm posting from home, but I just thought I'd ask if anyone's come across one of these before: Apricot XEN-i XD20. I got it with an Acorn Archimedes A4000 (nice to have a working one at last!) and it's got some really odd features, like external power supply (or so it would seem), an LED on the front panel labelled 'voice' and more input/output ports than something with a lot of ports. The keyboard is also one with the 'micro display' on with programmable function keys :) Since there's a 15 pin D type marked 'DC Input' I assume I need to power the box externally, and since there's also a normal 4-pin style 'DC Output' I also assume I need to feed it +12 and +5V. Pix to come soon. I also got a right odd looking thing - it's a (or at least looks like a) ZX81 peripheral. There's a crystal on it as well as 3 chips, 4060, 4040 and 4087 and its marked 'G4IDE' or 'G41DE' on the front and 'FAX PCB' on the back. Since I don't believe anyone produced a FAX add-on for the ZX81 I'm a bit puzzled! Finally there's an adapter for the Vic/C64 that lets you use 2 C2Ns - one for dedicated saving and the other for dedicated loading. Little things, but sometimes little things are good :) adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 3 14:08:12 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: NEXTcube References: Message-ID: <002901c05d64$c7715520$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" To: Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 7:13 PM Subject: Re: NEXTcube > On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Mike Kenzie wrote: > > I can't find a floppy on the cube and the slot in the front > doesn't look quite right for a CD. It also has the 3.0, 3.1 > and 3.2 CD's as well as the developer CD's. The Cdrom seems to have a bigger opening than the PC ones. Could this be an optical drive or does it require a caddy? Is it a standard caddy? And the hex tool is missing :( From ryan at hack.net Sun Dec 3 14:45:13 2000 From: ryan at hack.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: NEXTcube References: <002901c05d64$c7715520$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <001401c05d69$ef61d7d0$24bcfacf@r> Yes, it's a NeXT magneto-optical drive. Worked fairly well, slow access times though. The hex key is no big deal; in fact, once you get it open, you'll probably find that the fan connector has simply fallen off, so that'll be an easy fix. -R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Kenzie" To: Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 2:08 PM Subject: Re: NEXTcube > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 7:13 PM > Subject: Re: NEXTcube > > > > On Sat, 2 Dec 2000, Mike Kenzie wrote: > > > > I can't find a floppy on the cube and the slot in the > front > > doesn't look quite right for a CD. It also has the 3.0, > 3.1 > > and 3.2 CD's as well as the developer CD's. > > The Cdrom seems to have a bigger opening than the PC ones. > Could this be an optical drive or does it require a caddy? > Is it a standard caddy? > > And the hex tool is missing :( > > > > > > From fmc at reanimators.org Sun Dec 3 14:44:55 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: DC100 tape cartridges Message-ID: <200012032044.eB3KitZ63853@daemonweed.reanimators.org> I seem to have accumulated a small pile of HP-flavored DC100 tape cartridges, some interesting, most not. Samples from the not-interesting DC100s suggest that many are afflicted by sticky-tension-loop, meaning they've been left to sit long enough that the tension loop that runs between capstan and the supply and takeup reels has become stuck to the tape where they touch, and when the capstan is spun they will peel some of the oxide off the tape. Does anybody have any ideas how to un-stick a tape that's been left sitting? Careful disassembly? Steam? WD40? -Frank McConnell From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 3 15:04:40 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: Weekend's finds In-Reply-To: from "Adrian Graham" at Dec 3, 0 07:56:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1829 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001203/4e99c343/attachment.ksh From red at bears.org Sun Dec 3 15:16:12 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: Anobody familliar with Hypercharger 020 Accel. Card for MAC SE? In-Reply-To: <3A2A3640.25566.13CE1952@localhost> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Dec 2000, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > I think you'd have a problem there. The Colour Classic is a 16Mhz > > 68030 machine (the CC II is 33Mhz). IIRC, the CC II still isn't quite > > as good as the SE/30 (a truely kick ass little machine). > > > > Zane > > Nope. Both the Color Classic and the Classic II as well as the > SE-30s were 68030 16Mhz machines. The CC was a little slower > than the II due to the color draw. But yes the SE/30 is reputed to > be faster. You're both right. Zane was talking about the Color Classic II, which was supposedly never marketd in the US. It used, in fact, a 68030 running at 33 MHz. The monochrome Classic II uses the same CPU, but clocked at 16 MHz. Where the Classic II and Color Classic fall down in comparison to the SE/30, though, is in memory capacity. The former two each support only 10 MB of RAM. The SE/30 supports up to 128 MB, assuming you can find the unobtainable 16 MB SIMMs to fit. ok r. From lgwalker at look.ca Sun Dec 3 16:13:27 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: Anobody familliar with Hypercharger 020 Accel. Card for MAC SE? In-Reply-To: References: <3A2A3640.25566.13CE1952@localhost> Message-ID: <3A2A7F37.28353.14EB2654@localhost> > >> I think you'd have a problem there. The Colour Classic is a 16Mhz > >> 68030 machine (the CC II is 33Mhz). IIRC, the CC II still isn't > >> quite as good as the SE/30 (a truely kick ass little machine). > >> > >> Zane > > > > Nope. Both the Color Classic and the Classic II as well as the > >SE-30s were 68030 16Mhz machines. The CC was a little slower > >than the II due to the color draw. But yes the SE/30 is reputed to be > >faster. > > > >ciao larry > > Oops, you've got me on the SE/30, that's what I get for going from > memory on a machine I've not used in a couple years. However, the > Colour Classic II was a 33Mhz machine, but it was only sold in Asia. > > Zane > -- Ahh, that explains why I couldn't find any specs in my various Mac books. I've got a surplus(9) of the blasted thick things taking up room which I would trade 3 of, for the Larry Pena book. The Mac Bible is the only one I'd keep. I'm also going to have to whittle down my A IIs and Macs. Like do I really need 3 flavors of A-IIe's or 3 Mac II-ci's even if it is my favorite Mac. A superfluous melange of printers is also wasting space in my rapidly shrinking abode. Then there's the 6 C=64s :^( I find it hard to resist a machine selling for less than a box of floppies or free on the curb. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Sun Dec 3 16:13:26 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: Anobody familliar with Hypercharger 020 Accel. Card for MAC SE? In-Reply-To: References: <3A2A3640.25566.13CE1952@localhost> Message-ID: <3A2A7F36.28174.14EB2627@localhost> > > Nope. Both the Color Classic and the Classic II as well as the > >SE-30s were 68030 16Mhz machines. The CC was a little slower > >than the II due to the color draw. But yes the SE/30 is reputed to be > >faster. > > Larry, > > I'm afraid you're wrong there....the CC II was clocked at > 33mhz and had a true 32 bit data path while the CC was based on a 16 > bit data path, the same as the LC series, and was clocked at 16 mhz. > All were based on the 68030. The 16bit data path is what crippled the > CC so badly, not the 16mhz clock. It's said that it only had roughly > 60-70 % of the speed of the SE/30. > > Jeff (who is happy to be back on his desktop machine after 3 weeks!) > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > I think I'm mixing up the various flavors of Classics. I know the SE/30 was faster than the Classic II due to it's 32-bit data path and the Color Classic was slower than the C II due to color processing. The ringer is the Color Classic II which I'm unfamiliar with. And now I know why I want one. :^) ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From claudew at sprint.ca Sun Dec 3 17:00:22 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: Anobody familliar with Hypercharger 020 Accel. Card for MAC SE? Message-ID: <006101c05d7c$d17c8360$2b00a8c0@Gamer_Claude.HOME> Still, I am not sure how to install this accel.... I'll try I guess, I have about 6 SE's here, so even if I destroy one... Putting this accel in a SE could be the closest I come to having an Se/30.. I actually have one Se/30 but machine does those horizontal stripes... Changed several caps on board, some obviously leeking, still no start...bars still...will have to probe I guess... Claude > > Nope. Both the Color Classic and the Classic II as well as the > >SE-30s were 68030 16Mhz machines. The CC was a little slower > >than the II due to the color draw. But yes the SE/30 is reputed to be > >faster. > > Larry, > > I'm afraid you're wrong there....the CC II was clocked at > 33mhz and had a true 32 bit data path while the CC was based on a 16 > bit data path, the same as the LC series, and was clocked at 16 mhz. > All were based on the 68030. The 16bit data path is what crippled the > CC so badly, not the 16mhz clock. It's said that it only had roughly > 60-70 % of the speed of the SE/30. > > Jeff (who is happy to be back on his desktop machine after 3 weeks!) > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > I think I'm mixing up the various flavors of Classics. I know the SE/30 was faster than the Classic II due to it's 32-bit data path and the Color Classic was slower than the C II due to color processing. The ringer is the Color Classic II which I'm unfamiliar with. And now I know why I want one. :^) ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From sethm at loomcom.com Sun Dec 3 17:12:34 2000 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: NEXTcube In-Reply-To: <000b01c05ca3$7c49a640$2001a8c0@azog.org>; from azog@azog.org on Sat, Dec 02, 2000 at 04:04:39PM -0500 References: <000b01c05c9e$865a31e0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> <000b01c05ca3$7c49a640$2001a8c0@azog.org> Message-ID: <20001203151234.A1238@loomcom.com> On Sat, Dec 02, 2000 at 04:04:39PM -0500, Billy D'Augustine wrote: > hoobooy - $75? For a cube! They sell for $1,000's on e-bay somtimes! A > _VERY_ sought after machine. Well, I don't know about that... I've seen a few fetch > $500, but they were complete turbo systems with printer, monitor, working OD drive, and the like. Add like $400 if it has a NeXTDimension board (which I've always wanted, but I think I'm over it now). Mostly cubes sell for around $100 to $200, complete with monitor, keyboard and mouse, even on eBay. They're actually relatively common (but no less neat for it), I think people had a hard time throwing them out. Slabs can be had for less. I'm just waiting for my BeBox to skyrocket in value... -Seth From optimus at canit.se Sun Dec 3 16:53:01 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: NEXTcube In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1477.372T50T14333967optimus@canit.se> r. 'bear' stricklin skrev: >On 3 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> What's it like, working with NeXT as your main OS? >Like working with any other system, I suppose. There are times when I'm >disappointed at not having access to certain niceties of modern computing, >but the system is very stable and stays out of my way. It is perhaps the >most well-conceived OS to ever have been on the market. It seems to >attract a certain class of developer, too, which translates for the most >part into applications which do their job well, and work in predictable >ways. >I can't view quicktime movies or listen to real audio streams or play the >latest games or crash my browser with crappy javascript, but for the most >part I don't feel like I'm missing anything (except the quicktime >bit). You can't crash your browser with Javascript? I'm slowly finding it necessary. Mostly for commerce, though. What web browser is available? >NEXTSTEP is the one system that, despite heavy use of, I have yet to be >frustrated by. That says a lot. I see what you mean. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Amiga: (noun) The most technologically advanced computer that hardly anyone cares about. Use in sentence: "I wanted to buy an Amiga for its low price and great color graphics, but everyone else seems to be using IBMs or Macintoshes. So, to remain compatible with the rest of the world, I spent three times as much on a Macintosh and got only half the graphics capability of an Amiga." From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 3 18:24:53 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: Anobody familliar with Hypercharger 020 Accel. Card for MAC SE? In-Reply-To: <006101c05d7c$d17c8360$2b00a8c0@Gamer_Claude.HOME> Message-ID: >Still, I am not sure how to install this accel.... > >I'll try I guess, I have about 6 SE's here, so even if I destroy one... > >Putting this accel in a SE could be the closest I come to having an Se/30.. > >I actually have one Se/30 but machine does those horizontal stripes... > >Changed several caps on board, some obviously leeking, still no start...bars >still...will have to probe I guess... IIRC, a SE is a pretty good doner for a SE/30. Isn't the main difference the CPU board? At least ISTR cabibilizing a SE to get my SE/30 running. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From msg at computerpro.com Sun Dec 3 18:25:25 2000 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: ST82500N: Need jumpers/switches Message-ID: <3A2AE475.D74E75D9@computerpro.com> Greetings: Anyone have operating and maintenance info for CDC/Seagate ST82500N 'Sabre' SCSI drive? This unit is a module about two feet long and has a hex keypad and display front panel and beaucoup dip switches and jumpers on various boards. It is also tagged 'PA8U1B'. The HDA uses 8in media (19 physical heads); the entire unit includes locking pins at the rear for a drive bay, and weighs about fifty pounds (includes integral power supply). The previous owner (a large firm) did not remember it's original application but instead used it as the only drive on a Sun 470 (and didn't remember how it was physically mounted). It works and we can extract data from it, but it is set to target 0 and we must change that; also the front panel controls allow for various reconfigurations and tests; we'd like to know those too. We'd like to know which computers included this drive as an option; certain VAXen for sure but what about CRAY, CDC, SGI, etc? Thanks, Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From at258 at osfn.org Sun Dec 3 18:42:14 2000 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: Plastic latches for the Osborne? In-Reply-To: <002501c18d7c$a5cc3810$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> Message-ID: Didnt Southco make a line of plastic latches? Are the still available? On Tue, 25 Dec 2001, Josh Gibbs wrote: > Hi all, > > Has anyone out there found a replacement for the plastic latches on the > Osborne 1? I just got this machine, and one of them is broken off. What a > bad design... considering how solid the rest of the machine is I am > surprised they did not put some big hinged metal suitcase latches on the > sucker! Thanks. > > Josh > gibbsjj@u.washington.edu > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From donm at crash.cts.com Sun Dec 3 18:54:29 2000 From: donm at crash.cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: Plastic latches for the Osborne? In-Reply-To: <002501c18d7c$a5cc3810$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 25 Dec 2001, Josh Gibbs wrote: > Hi all, > > Has anyone out there found a replacement for the plastic latches on the > Osborne 1? I just got this machine, and one of them is broken off. What a > bad design... considering how solid the rest of the machine is I am > surprised they did not put some big hinged metal suitcase latches on the > sucker! Thanks. Josh, I would suggest finding a scrap Kaypro to cannibalize. A cursory glance suggest that they are the same. - don From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 3 21:18:58 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Power Question Message-ID: It's been half of forever since I've had my IIgs setup. Now the question is, how many floppy drives can its powersupply handle at once? I know I've had 2 3.5" and 1 5.25" drives plugged into it, however, I'm wondering if it's safe to plug in 2 3.5" and 2 5.25" drives. The only cards in it at the moment are a 1MB RAM card and a CMS SCSI adapter (hooked up to a 44MB Syquest). Anyway now to see if I can even remember how to boot the system :^) Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Sun Dec 3 21:50:39 2000 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Power Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Zane, I remember all those drives and more plugged in.... George ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Sun, 3 Dec 2000, Zane H. Healy wrote: > It's been half of forever since I've had my IIgs setup. Now the question > is, how many floppy drives can its powersupply handle at once? I know I've > had 2 3.5" and 1 5.25" drives plugged into it, however, I'm wondering if > it's safe to plug in 2 3.5" and 2 5.25" drives. The only cards in it at > the moment are a 1MB RAM card and a CMS SCSI adapter (hooked up to a 44MB > Syquest). > > Anyway now to see if I can even remember how to boot the system :^) > > Zane > > -- > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From Glenatacme at aol.com Sun Dec 3 21:46:50 2000 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: Entrepo stringy-floppies for A&J Microdrive Message-ID: <56.43519b8.275c6daa@aol.com> The A&J Microdrive is a TS2068 peripheral, but I understand that a similar drive was developed for the C64. Anyone know of a source for these tapes? Thanks Glen Goodwin 0/0 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Dec 3 22:54:54 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: Anobody familliar with Hypercharger 020 Accel. Card for MAC SE? In-Reply-To: <3A2A3640.25566.13CE1952@localhost> References: <3.0.1.16.20001202050600.3a6f78ce@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001203235454.371ffd4e@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:02 PM 12/3/00 -0500, you wrote: > >> >Clause, >> > >> > I THINK I have one of those that's NIB with instructions. I'll >> > have to >> >look for it, I haven't seen it in a while. I've been hoping to find a >> >MAC Color Classic to put it in. >> > >> > Joe >> > >> >> Joe, >> I think you'd have a problem there. The Colour Classic is a 16Mhz >> 68030 machine (the CC II is 33Mhz). IIRC, the CC II still isn't quite >> as good as the SE/30 (a truely kick ass little machine). >> >> Zane > If I remember correctly, the card that I have can use a 68040 and something over 20MHz. It also supports a lot more memory than the standard Apple cards. Sorry but I haven't looked at it in a long time so I'm fuzzy on the exact details. Joe From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Dec 3 23:14:47 2000 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: ST82500N: Need jumpers/switches References: <3A2AE475.D74E75D9@computerpro.com> Message-ID: <3A2B282A.239EEF60@eoni.com> sure! just goto: and follow the easy to use directions. if it's scsi, it's probably there... Jim Michael Grigoni wrote: > > Greetings: > > Anyone have operating and maintenance info for CDC/Seagate ST82500N > 'Sabre' SCSI drive? l From msg at computerpro.com Sun Dec 3 23:20:40 2000 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: ST82500N: Need jumpers/switches References: <3A2AE475.D74E75D9@computerpro.com> <3A2B282A.239EEF60@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3A2B29A8.158587FF@computerpro.com> Jim, Thanks for your reply; alas no luck there. Seagate tech supp. doesn't remember the drive (although I can show them press releases announcing it...). I am hoping someone on the list recognizes the drive as a rebadged something for VAX, Sun, or other high-end machines ca. 1991 Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum Jim Arnott wrote: > > sure! just goto: and > follow the easy to use directions. if it's scsi, it's probably there... > From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Dec 3 23:53:23 2000 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: ST82500N: Need jumpers/switches References: <3A2AE475.D74E75D9@computerpro.com> <3A2B282A.239EEF60@eoni.com> <3A2B29A8.158587FF@computerpro.com> Message-ID: <3A2B3150.37C61089@eoni.com> You might try p-mailing the guys at the techpage. Might be so old that while they have the data, they see no need to post it... Jim Michael Grigoni wrote: > > Jim, > > Thanks for your reply; alas no luck there. Seagate tech supp. > doesn't remember the drive (although I can show them press releases > announcing it...). > > I am hoping someone on the list recognizes the drive as a rebadged > something for VAX, Sun, or other high-end machines ca. 1991 > > Michael Grigoni > Cybertheque Museum > > Jim Arnott wrote: > > > > sure! just goto: and > > follow the easy to use directions. if it's scsi, it's probably there... > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Dec 4 02:11:13 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:20 2005 Subject: ST82500N: Need jumpers/switches In-Reply-To: <3A2B29A8.158587FF@computerpro.com> References: <3A2AE475.D74E75D9@computerpro.com> <3A2B282A.239EEF60@eoni.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001204000838.02cfd0c0@208.226.86.10> This sounds more like an IPI drive than a SCSI drive. But if it is SCSI then there are a couple of things you can try: 1) Look for a set of three jumpers somewhere that have 'id' or 'addr' etched or silk screened near the board. If that doesn't work try adding a jumper (carefully) at each point and then probing the bus until the unit number changes. 2) Read the code page and see if you can set the LUN to sometong other than 0 --Chuck From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 4 02:22:53 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:21 2005 Subject: Entrepo stringy-floppies for A&J Microdrive In-Reply-To: <56.43519b8.275c6daa@aol.com> Message-ID: >The A&J Microdrive is a TS2068 peripheral, but I understand that a similar >drive was developed for the C64. That drive sure reminds me of something I have around someplace. No clue on media though. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 4 03:27:19 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:25 2005 Subject: Weekend's finds In-Reply-To: "Adrian Graham" "Weekend's finds" (Dec 3, 19:56) References: Message-ID: <10012040927.ZM7407@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 19:56, Adrian Graham wrote: > I don't know if this'll work since I'm posting from home, but I just thought > I'd ask if anyone's come across one of these before: Apricot XEN-i XD20. I > got it with an Acorn Archimedes A4000 (nice to have a working one at last!) > and it's got some really odd features, like external power supply (or so it > would seem), an LED on the front panel labelled 'voice' and more > input/output ports than something with a lot of ports. The keyboard is also > one with the 'micro display' on with programmable function keys :) > Since there's a 15 pin D type marked 'DC Input' I assume I need to power the > box externally, and since there's also a normal 4-pin style 'DC Output' I > also assume I need to feed it +12 and +5V. Pix to come soon. Did you get a monitor with it? Apricot monitors of that vintage came in two types, colour and monchrome, and contained the power supply for the machine. What exactly are the connectors on the box? The ones I remember had a sort of plstic clip around the monitor video/power connector. > I also got a right odd looking thing - it's a (or at least looks like a) > ZX81 peripheral. There's a crystal on it as well as 3 chips, 4060, 4040 and > 4087 and its marked 'G4IDE' or 'G41DE' on the front and 'FAX PCB' on the > back. Since I don't believe anyone produced a FAX add-on for the ZX81 I'm a > bit puzzled! Given the callsign 'G4IDE', I'd expect this is something like an interface to a weather fax receiver used by a radio ham. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mtapley at swri.edu Sun Dec 3 16:11:44 2000 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:25 2005 Subject: NEXTcube In-Reply-To: <200012031704.LAA18226@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Mike Ford wrote: >Is anyone on the list an ACTIVE Next user or collector? Yo! My cube normally sits on my desk at Southwest Research Institute (and is my only desktop machine at work, my other work computer being a Powerbook 3400). I use it for websurfing (OmniWeb), compiling command lists weekly for the IMAGE spacecraft (Perl 5.0, Terminal), pass and orbit visualization (Rendezvous), attitude determination software design, testing, and debug for IMAGE (Mathematica 2.0), newsgroup reading (NewsGrazer), preparing presentations (Concurrence, Diagram), analyzing attitude and other data (cc, Quantrix), and other stuff. I also do incremental backups of my powerbook to it (ftpd, compress). It's got an optical and a 540M hard drive and a floppy internal (using a special bracket to get the floppy to the second faceplate slot and still hold the 3.5" hard drive in that same bay). It also has two 1.2G externals in an old PC chassis (a far far nobler cause than that chassis ever served before...gotta get that thing painted black... :-) ). The machine is now upstairs at home, because while trying to upgrade to Mathematica 3.0, I used for the first time, to hook my CD drive into the SCSI chain, a Centronix-to-Centronix cable that was apparently not a SCSI cable. (What do I know, it came out of a box that said "SCSI cables, $3" at Wierd Stuff Warehouse). The boot hard drive got scrambled, then I discovered I don't know as much as I thought I did about "dump" and "restore". I'm about recovered from that by now, so I'll try again (with a *different* cable setup) on the Mma 3.0 install. BTW, as of a few weeks ago, Wolfram was about to quit doing upgrades from Mma 2.2 and earlier, so if you've been putting that off, don't. The 25 MHz 68040 CPU is not as fast as modern workstation processors. That said, NeXTStep 3.3 on NeXT is a very solid and very useful OS/Development environment for a workstation, and the amount of freeware/shareware/payware out for NeXT is amazing. Since nothing I do requires a lot of serious crunch power (or if it does can be run overnight), the NeXT is a really good machine for me. >I don't know if I would bring one home just >to sell and pack for a profit. Most likely yes, but I know I would grumble >all the way to the bank. I know of a couple of folks around here I'd like to get connected with NeXTs. Also, I'd *love* to find a NeXTDimension board, cable, and color monitor to add to my system at a price my wife will accept. Finally, there are a couple of NeXT resellers still on the market who would likely be interested in hearing about big piles of new hardware. If you see/hear of another batch in peril, *particularly* if it includes a cube tied to a color monitor, let me know and I'll hopefully arrange for you to grumble back and forth to the bank several times. - Mark From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Dec 4 09:09:03 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:25 2005 Subject: Entrepo stringy-floppies for A&J Microdrive In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >The A&J Microdrive is a TS2068 peripheral, but I understand that a similar > >drive was developed for the C64. > > That drive sure reminds me of something I have around someplace. No clue on > media though. Might it be a relative of the Exatron Stringy-Floppy for the TRS-80 Model I? g. From vaxman at uswest.net Mon Dec 4 10:12:18 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:25 2005 Subject: CDC Sabre information Message-ID: Sorry, I deleted the original message before writting down the model number, But.... http://www.pc-disk.de/pcdisk shows four different model numbers. The site is in germany, so it can be kinda slow... clint From optimus at canit.se Sun Dec 3 22:58:39 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:25 2005 Subject: Entrepo stringy-floppies for A&J Microdrive In-Reply-To: <56.43519b8.275c6daa@aol.com> Message-ID: <376.373T1950T3585559optimus@canit.se> Glenatacme skrev: >The A&J Microdrive is a TS2068 peripheral, but I understand that a similar >drive was developed for the C64. Microdrive, as in Sinclair? There was a Wafadrive for the C64, that much I know... >Anyone know of a source for these tapes? ...but don't ask me about the cassettes. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. A conservative is a worshipper of dead radicals. From Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de Mon Dec 4 10:27:30 2000 From: Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:25 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: <007a01c18de6$7bccd320$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> Message-ID: <142yRw-0L5GVMC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> On Wed, 26 Dec 2001 00:22:39 -0800, Josh Gibbs wrote: >Hi all, > >I am looking for the original Osborne 1 and Osborne Executive >documentation... any suggestions? A copy would be fine. A scanned copy I have both but not scanned. A problem maybee that I live in germany but if you can't get the informations you need please mail me. I write without cheking my souces because they are at my parents home in the basement and I didn't habe the list by hand. >would be even better. Is there an online archive of scanned documentation >somewhere? Thanks. I don't know about such side but are intested too. >Josh > Greetings from Fritz Chwolka - Duisburg / collecting old computers just for fun at www.alterechner.de \ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Dec 4 10:49:49 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:25 2005 Subject: GG2 Bus+ (was Re: Archiving Amiga floppies) Message-ID: <20001204164949.16310.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Iggy Drougge wrote: > Ethan Dicks skrev: > > I still have new, in-the-box GG2 Bus+ bridge cards w/original warranty. > > They come with NE2000 drivers... > > Are you parting with them, then? =) Yes. I make and sell them, but not as many as I used to (no big surprise there). If all you want is Ethernet, they, aren't that big of a bargain, frankly. At one time, when an A2065 was >$200 USD, a GG2 Bus+ for $130 plus a $20 ISA NIC was a deal, especially because I had stock on hand and all the A2065 cards were used and scarce. Now, there are several options that are available more-or-less on demand, but at a slightly higher price. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Dec 4 11:03:45 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:25 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs Power Question In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Dec 3, 2000 07:18:58 pm" Message-ID: <200012041703.JAA28303@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > It's been half of forever since I've had my IIgs setup. Now the question > is, how many floppy drives can its powersupply handle at once? I know I've > had 2 3.5" and 1 5.25" drives plugged into it, however, I'm wondering if > it's safe to plug in 2 3.5" and 2 5.25" drives. I don't think 4 floppies is a problem. If I recall correctly the drive motors are only powered one at a time during normal operation. If you turned all the drive motors on simultaneously, you might have a problem. Eric From Scott.Miller at vandenberg.af.mil Mon Dec 4 11:03:52 2000 From: Scott.Miller at vandenberg.af.mil (Miller Scott Contr 30CS/FTI) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:25 2005 Subject: NEXTcube Message-ID: How's the NeXTcube compare to the NeXTstation? I'd never touched a NeXT of any sort until last night. Someone on a local BBS posted a message looking for a good home for an unwanted complete NeXTstation Turbo Color, so of course I was there within the hour loading the thing up. It booted right up and ran pretty dang well for a 33 MHz system. Running the Mandelbrot demo program showed the lack of underlying horsepower, but I think it's still more responsive overall than my old SPARCstations. For that matter, Windows Explorer on a PII-400 can be a frustrating experience and it's nice to see a system that makes good use of its resources. Plus, the whole thing just LOOKS really cool. With a 33 MHz 68040 and 32 MB of RAM, will this thing run a useable web browser? I've got an SGI Indigo2 in the living room for web surfing right now, but maybe it's time to swap it out for an easier-to-use system. A bit off-topic, but do they have a release of AGI's Satellite Tool Kit for NeXTStep? It runs pretty well under IRIX. How does Rendezvous compare, or have you used STK? I'm actually about three miles from the pad where IMAGE was launched, BTW. We all climbed up on the roof to watch that one... pretty nice launch if I remember right. Those Delta II's are really cool at night, though. Scott -----Original Message----- From: Mark Tapley [mailto:mtapley@swri.edu] Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 2:12 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: NEXTcube Mike Ford wrote: >Is anyone on the list an ACTIVE Next user or collector? Yo! My cube normally sits on my desk at Southwest Research Institute (and is my only desktop machine at work, my other work computer being a Powerbook 3400). I use it for websurfing (OmniWeb), compiling command lists weekly for the IMAGE spacecraft (Perl 5.0, Terminal), pass and orbit visualization (Rendezvous), attitude determination software design, testing, and debug for IMAGE (Mathematica 2.0), newsgroup reading (NewsGrazer), preparing presentations (Concurrence, Diagram), analyzing attitude and other data (cc, Quantrix), and other stuff. I also do incremental backups of my powerbook to it (ftpd, compress). It's got an optical and a 540M hard drive and a floppy internal (using a special bracket to get the floppy to the second faceplate slot and still hold the 3.5" hard drive in that same bay). It also has two 1.2G externals in an old PC chassis (a far far nobler cause than that chassis ever served before...gotta get that thing painted black... :-) ). The machine is now upstairs at home, because while trying to upgrade to Mathematica 3.0, I used for the first time, to hook my CD drive into the SCSI chain, a Centronix-to-Centronix cable that was apparently not a SCSI cable. (What do I know, it came out of a box that said "SCSI cables, $3" at Wierd Stuff Warehouse). The boot hard drive got scrambled, then I discovered I don't know as much as I thought I did about "dump" and "restore". I'm about recovered from that by now, so I'll try again (with a *different* cable setup) on the Mma 3.0 install. BTW, as of a few weeks ago, Wolfram was about to quit doing upgrades from Mma 2.2 and earlier, so if you've been putting that off, don't. The 25 MHz 68040 CPU is not as fast as modern workstation processors. That said, NeXTStep 3.3 on NeXT is a very solid and very useful OS/Development environment for a workstation, and the amount of freeware/shareware/payware out for NeXT is amazing. Since nothing I do requires a lot of serious crunch power (or if it does can be run overnight), the NeXT is a really good machine for me. >I don't know if I would bring one home just >to sell and pack for a profit. Most likely yes, but I know I would grumble >all the way to the bank. I know of a couple of folks around here I'd like to get connected with NeXTs. Also, I'd *love* to find a NeXTDimension board, cable, and color monitor to add to my system at a price my wife will accept. Finally, there are a couple of NeXT resellers still on the market who would likely be interested in hearing about big piles of new hardware. If you see/hear of another batch in peril, *particularly* if it includes a cube tied to a color monitor, let me know and I'll hopefully arrange for you to grumble back and forth to the bank several times. - Mark From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Mon Dec 4 11:24:07 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:25 2005 Subject: (OT) Video card needed In-Reply-To: <20001204164949.16310.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20001204164949.16310.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0012041124070E.00326@Billbob_Linux> I'm in need of a basic AGP (maybe even PCI if I get the right deal) video card, 8MB or better. An older TNT1 16MB card would be ideal; I don't need anything fancy, something that was state-of-the-art two years ago would be fine. If you have such an item for sale or trade, please reply off-list. Thanks! -- Bill Layer From elvey at hal.com Mon Dec 4 12:28:37 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:25 2005 Subject: Weekend's finds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200012041828.KAA22620@civic.hal.com> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > > > > I also got a right odd looking thing - it's a (or at least looks like a) > > ZX81 peripheral. There's a crystal on it as well as 3 chips, 4060, 4040 and > > 4087 and its marked 'G4IDE' or 'G41DE' on the front and 'FAX PCB' on the > > Those chips are all standard 4000-series CMOS (the 4040 and 4060 are > counters, I forget what the 4087 is). Drawing out the schematic should > take < 1 hour... > > > back. Since I don't believe anyone produced a FAX add-on for the ZX81 I'm a > > bit puzzled! > > G4IDE looks like an English amateur radio callsign to me. I suspect this > is some kind of amateur radio/weather (?) analogue-type fax image > decoder, and has nothing to do with modern fax sent over telephone lines. > Are there any connectors on the PCB (other than the edge connector to the > ZX81)? Hi Although only about 6 years ago, I thought I'd mention that related to weather FAX, I'd wrote some software that would convert one of the softmodems ( Cardinal and Digicom ). You need a receiver with a BFO. It did a little simple DSP filtering and then a zero cross detector for the FAX. It used some freeware software, from the net, to display on a PC. If there is any interest, let me know. It would make sense that on a machine without extra counters, one might add a counter to find time between zero crossings for the frequency detectors. Dwight Dwight From elvey at hal.com Mon Dec 4 12:32:23 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:25 2005 Subject: MCS-80 System Design Kit In-Reply-To: <376.373T1950T3585559optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <200012041832.KAA22626@civic.hal.com> Hi Over the weekend, I found two empty cards made by Intel for the 8080. These cards are silk screened but they only show the smaller components as "R1" without values. The IC's are all labled. Does anyone out there have the parts list for a "MCS-80 System Design Kit"? Dwight From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 4 11:27:47 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: <007a01c18de6$7bccd320$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Josh Gibbs wrote: > I am looking for the original Osborne 1 and Osborne Executive > documentation... any suggestions? A copy would be fine. A scanned copy > would be even better. Is there an online archive of scanned documentation > somewhere? Thanks. If you don't find it anywhere else, let me know and I might be able to find a copy. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 4 12:52:46 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: MCS-80 System Design Kit In-Reply-To: <200012041832.KAA22626@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at Dec 4, 0 10:32:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1524 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001204/9f053f20/attachment.ksh From ss at allegro.com Mon Dec 4 12:53:48 2000 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Question: Disk Mirroring preceding RAID? Message-ID: <3A2B77BC.11608.DA777A4@localhost> Hi, Need help in settling argument...does disk mirroring (via hardware) predate RAID's mirroring capability? (I'm not interested in OS software implemented mirroring here.) Also, are there any hardware mirror methods that one could point to and say: this is not capable of being called any kind of RAID! (The argument in question is over the statement that "all hardware based mirroring is a form of RAID".) For example, is there any "stealth hardware mirroring" mechanism, where a drive watches the bus, and obeys writes, but nothing else? (This would be "drive-based" mirroring, as opposed to "controller- based mirroring") (Since RAID is controller-based, a drive-based mirroring mechanism would seem to be clearly not any kind of RAID.) thanks! Stan Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 4 13:16:21 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: A&J Microdrive In-Reply-To: <376.373T1950T3585559optimus@canit.se> References: <56.43519b8.275c6daa@aol.com> Message-ID: >>The A&J Microdrive is a TS2068 peripheral, but I understand that a similar >>drive was developed for the C64. A&J MicroDrive, a small external box maybe 6x2x4 inches, a single DB 25 connector with just 6 pins (looking in the open end of the connector; 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 20), nothing for power. On the front mine says System 100 and down in the left corner Active/Low Battery, right corner A. On the back; A&J Micro Drive 1050 East Duane Avenue, Suite I Sunnyvale, California 94086 Voice 408-732-9292 BBS 408-732-6464 Date 12-6-85 Serial NO. 010145 Four screws takes off the back, and reveals fortunately an empty and clean carrier for 4 AA batteries (only two appear used, and those in a +1.5 and -1.5v fashion), a simple looking circuit board, and a BSR tape mechanism. More good news, I saw no rubber parts in the tape drive, so my guess is find a good tape, and it still works. I didn't see anything like an ID on the tape drive, but it is a single gap head (two wires and a shield only go to it). The tape cartridge loads straight in the front, and the opening is about 2.5" x 3/8" with depth less than 2" (of course it could stick out). The only moving part is the VERY skinny (like a needle) drive pin on top of the motor near the left side. On the side of the left front and right rear there is a small metal "bump" spring to retain the tape, but no release or other movement in the drive. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Dec 4 11:38:24 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Question: Disk Mirroring preceding RAID? In-Reply-To: <3A2B77BC.11608.DA777A4@localhost> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001204113246.01968508@208.226.86.10> At 10:53 AM 12/4/2000 -0800, you wrote: >Need help in settling argument...does disk mirroring (via hardware) >predate RAID's mirroring capability? (I'm not interested in >OS software implemented mirroring here.) Sounds like a patent suit :-) >Also, are there any hardware mirror methods that one could point >to and say: this is not capable of being called any kind of RAID! >(The argument in question is over the statement that >"all hardware based mirroring is a form of RAID".) This is kind of a specious argument. There were volume shadowing (aka hardware mirroring) products available before people started calling it "RAID" and in fact the IBM DASD farms could do volume shadowing and it isn't "RAID" because RAID is "Redundant Array of *Inexpensive* Disks" and 3380's certainly weren't "inexpensive." The hoopla, if you can call it that, around RAID was that disks were getting pretty cheap and you could reorganize them in several ways to "enhance" certain features (like reliability or performance) that normally you'd have to pay beau coup bucks for. Nearly everything "raid like" had been done before by people like IBM and DEC but their disk farms didn't come cheap. >For example, is there any "stealth hardware mirroring" mechanism, >where a drive watches the bus, and obeys writes, but nothing else? Look at some of the CDC dual ported drives. But there is still a controller on the disk. If you try to say there isn't a controller involved then you'll be looking at something that is splitting off the write lines to the platters. (which I wouldn't rule out, just you will have to look for *that* in the techical manual for so called "high reliability" storage that perhaps IBM, CDC, Rand, or DEC may have sold to some customers) >(This would be "drive-based" mirroring, as opposed to "controller- >based mirroring") (Since RAID is controller-based, a drive-based >mirroring mechanism would seem to be clearly not any kind of RAID.) So, you going to tell us the patent number? --Chuck From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 4 14:16:47 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: looking for Wyse 60 keyboard Message-ID: <14891.64431.898831.761231@phaduka.neurotica.com> Hi folks. Anyone have a keyboard for a Wyse 60 that they'd be willing to part with? -Dave McGuire From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Dec 4 14:34:26 2000 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: looking for Wyse 60 keyboard References: <14891.64431.898831.761231@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3A2BFFD2.2040408@olf.com> Want a Wyse 75 terminal instead??? My days of terminal programming is over. It is in pretty good condition especially since it was new at one point. I never came around using it. It is probably covered in dust as it is in the garage. Free for the taking. I am in New York. Ram Dave McGuire wrote: > > Hi folks. Anyone have a keyboard for a Wyse 60 that they'd be > willing to part with? > > -Dave McGuire > > > From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Mon Dec 4 14:49:20 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: looking for Wyse 60 keyboard In-Reply-To: <14891.64431.898831.761231@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <000a01c05e33$adc13f80$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Dave said: > Anyone have a keyboard for a Wyse 60 > that they'd be willing to part with? Is that a PC or a terminal? If its a terminal then I might have a KB, and the rest of the Wyse* for that matter, that I'd be willing to part with. John A. *Pretty snappy emulation modes, IIRC From sean at techcare.com Mon Dec 4 14:55:33 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: NEXTcube References: Message-ID: <007801c05e34$8bcd1ec0$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miller Scott Contr 30CS/FTI" To: Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 12:03 PM Subject: RE: NEXTcube > How's the NeXTcube compare to the NeXTstation? I'd never touched a NeXT of > any sort until last night. Someone on a local BBS posted a message looking > for a good home for an unwanted complete NeXTstation Turbo Color, so of > course I was there within the hour loading the thing up. It booted right up > and ran pretty dang well for a 33 MHz system. Running the Mandelbrot demo > program showed the lack of underlying horsepower, but I think it's still > more responsive overall than my old SPARCstations. For that matter, Windows > Explorer on a PII-400 can be a frustrating experience and it's nice to see a > system that makes good use of its resources. Plus, the whole thing just > LOOKS really cool. With a 33 MHz 68040 and 32 MB of RAM, will this thing > run a useable web browser? I've got an SGI Indigo2 in the living room for > web surfing right now, but maybe it's time to swap it out for an > easier-to-use system. Well, it depends which sort of cube you're talking about. There were two types, one based on the 68030 processor (at 25 MHz, I think), and one based on the 68040 (at 33, I think). They were identical chassis-wise, but the system boards were different, and the internal peripherals differed somewhat. The older 68030 systems shipped with a NeXT proprietary 256 megabyte optical drive. It's noisy and slow, but I think it's kind of cool anyway just in the fact that NeXT was the only vendor to ever ship optical storage as default on a system. In older 68030 systems you'll probably find smaller drives too (unless the system was upgraded). On the low end (a system designed to run off the optical drive and/or network), the system included a 40 megabyte drive for "paging", and things moved up from there. I think some REALLY old NeXT 68030 cubes might have shipped with TWO optical drives (or only one optical drive), but this arrangement was pretty detrimental to performance. System board video on the Cubes was grayscale, and everything (keyboard, mouse, etc) was broken out via the monitor which connected to the computer via a DB-15 connector which provided both power and data to the monitor. I've never used or seen a 68040 cube in real life, but as far as I know, it is pretty similar to the 68030 cube in terms of the case being the same, except it is fitted with a 33 MHz 68040 processor. If you're lucky, some of these systems were shipped with NeXT's top-of-the-line NeXTDimension accelerated 24-bit color board. Consider yourself lucky if you've got one of these! Likewise, there were a few different types of Slabs. There were "regular" NeXTStation and NeXTStation Color systems (68040 @25), and there were Turbo NeXTStation and NeXTStation Color systems (68040 @33). You'll probably get performance equivelent to a "regular" 68040 Cube with either of the Turbo Station systems, however if your Cube happens to contain a NeXTDimension board, you'll blow everything else out there out of the water (when it comes to NeXT Black hardware). Will it run a usable Web browser? Depends on your definition of usable. You can get OmniWeb which is a nice browser, but, notably, it does not support features such as Java, JavaScript, style sheets, and frames (I think). It's not a speed daemon, but it's not terribly unusable either (although it can be kind of a dog when rendering lots of graphics; my system is a Color Slab with 32 megs of RAM and a 2 gig Barracuda to establish a frame of reference with what you may be using). NeXT made some really elegant systems, and I love the two that I've got (although they're pretty much used only recreationally). Is the NeXT Cube going to stack up to an Indigo2 in terms of raw power? Not likely. They are really nice systems though, and I'd definitely suggest hanging onto it, especially when you have a nice specimen such as a 68040 Cube. --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net > > A bit off-topic, but do they have a release of AGI's Satellite Tool Kit for > NeXTStep? It runs pretty well under IRIX. How does Rendezvous compare, or > have you used STK? I'm actually about three miles from the pad where IMAGE > was launched, BTW. We all climbed up on the roof to watch that one... > pretty nice launch if I remember right. Those Delta II's are really cool at > night, though. > > Scott > From dlinder at uiuc.edu Mon Dec 4 15:13:47 2000 From: dlinder at uiuc.edu (Dan Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Classic Cinemaware Games In-Reply-To: <200012020125.RAA08224@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Dec 2000 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > I just found out that classic Cinemaware titles such as "The Three Stooges" > and "Rocket Ranger" have been put up on their web page for download! > > http://www.cinemaware.com/vault.asp?vault=games I have to say I *really* appreciate you posting this... Cinemaware games were definitely a cut above, whether on Amiga or C64 (the two that I've played them on) I hope that others will post such things as they see them, as I get a feeling that more and more old software will be released in a free form (free of legal entangles, anyways... sure you can "pirate", but it's nice to see old software released for free; it's the right thing to do if there's no paying market anymore) > Hmmmm..... Looks like I've definitly got to get my Amiga 3000 back up and > running! Something tells me I'll be working on that this weekend! me too... looks like the "roms" (NES audience I suppose) aren't available yet for any platform... I better finish up my projects before those get released. No work will be done for at least a week following that. :) - Dan Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science - Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant - DoRES Computer Accessibility Researcher - All-Around Tech Mercenary for Hire From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 4 14:14:04 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: MCS-80 System Design Kit In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > If nobody has the manuals (and the manual would include at least a > schematic), then you may be able to guess and get something that will > work. I've actually gone one stage 'worse' -- I got a completely > unlabelled bare Eurocard-size PCB, figured out that it was for an Acorn > 'System', then worked out what the chips had to be and then worked out > what the passives were as well. For the record the main chip was an > AY-3-8910 sound generator interfaced to the 6502 bus by a 6821. Other > chips were TTL for the address decoder, space for an EPROM, and a small > audio amplifier. Tony, you're a wonderfully sick man. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ss at allegro.com Mon Dec 4 15:19:01 2000 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Question: Disk Mirroring preceding RAID? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001204113246.01968508@208.226.86.10> References: <3A2B77BC.11608.DA777A4@localhost> Message-ID: <3A2B99C5.913.E2C6D3C@localhost> Re: > Sounds like a patent suit :-) No...just an argument, really! (I'd mention if it was patent oriented.) > This is kind of a specious argument. There were volume shadowing (aka > hardware mirroring) products available before people started calling it > "RAID" and in fact the IBM DASD farms could do volume shadowing and it > isn't "RAID" because RAID is "Redundant Array of *Inexpensive* Disks" and > 3380's certainly weren't "inexpensive." I dug up a copy of the original RAID article: "A Case for Redundant Arrays of Inexpensive Disks (RAID)" by Patterson, Gibson, and Katz (from June, 1988). They must have trained to be patent lawyers, because their definition of RAID is verrrry broad! (To the point where software implemented mirroring would still be called RAID1.) Basically, I found that if I tried to forget that RAID was an acronym with a meaning, I can see how people claim that any and all disk mirroring is a form of RAID ... even if the mirroring preceded the name "RAID". BTW, I found a reprint of the article in "Readings in Computer Architecture", edited by Hill, Jouppi, and Sohi, published in 2000 by Morgan Kaufmann. This is a great reference book. Articles include: Architecture of the IBM System/360; by Amdahl, Blaauw, & Brooks Parallel Operation in the Control Data 6600 The Cray-1 Computer System Cray-1 Computer Technology Cramming More Components onto Integrated Circuits; by Gordon Moore wait...maybe there's a web site... http://www.mkp.com/books_catalog/catalog.asp?ISBN=1-55860-539-8 Chapter 1 - Classic Machines: Technology, Implementation, and Economics Chapter 2 - Methods Chapter 3 - Instruction Sets Chapter 4 - Instruction Level Parallelism (ILP) Chapter 5 - Dataflow and Multithreading Chapter 6 - Memory Systems Chapter 7 - I/O: Storage Systems, Networks, and Graphics Chapter 8 - Single-Instruction Multiple Data (SIMD) Parallelism Chapter 9 - Multiprocessors and Multicomputers Chapter 10 - Recent Implementations and Future Prospects Highly recommended! Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From sean at techcare.com Mon Dec 4 14:55:33 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: NEXTcube References: Message-ID: <00bb01c05e38$bcf24f30$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miller Scott Contr 30CS/FTI" To: Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 12:03 PM Subject: RE: NEXTcube > How's the NeXTcube compare to the NeXTstation? I'd never touched a NeXT of > any sort until last night. Someone on a local BBS posted a message looking > for a good home for an unwanted complete NeXTstation Turbo Color, so of > course I was there within the hour loading the thing up. It booted right up > and ran pretty dang well for a 33 MHz system. Running the Mandelbrot demo > program showed the lack of underlying horsepower, but I think it's still > more responsive overall than my old SPARCstations. For that matter, Windows > Explorer on a PII-400 can be a frustrating experience and it's nice to see a > system that makes good use of its resources. Plus, the whole thing just > LOOKS really cool. With a 33 MHz 68040 and 32 MB of RAM, will this thing > run a useable web browser? I've got an SGI Indigo2 in the living room for > web surfing right now, but maybe it's time to swap it out for an > easier-to-use system. Well, it depends which sort of cube you're talking about. There were two types, one based on the 68030 processor (at 25 MHz, I think), and one based on the 68040 (at 33, I think). They were identical chassis-wise, but the system boards were different, and the internal peripherals differed somewhat. The older 68030 systems shipped with a NeXT proprietary 256 megabyte optical drive. It's noisy and slow, but I think it's kind of cool anyway just in the fact that NeXT was the only vendor to ever ship optical storage as default on a system. In older 68030 systems you'll probably find smaller drives too (unless the system was upgraded). On the low end (a system designed to run off the optical drive and/or network), the system included a 40 megabyte drive for "paging", and things moved up from there. I think some REALLY old NeXT 68030 cubes might have shipped with TWO optical drives (or only one optical drive), but this arrangement was pretty detrimental to performance. System board video on the Cubes was grayscale, and everything (keyboard, mouse, etc) was broken out via the monitor which connected to the computer via a DB-15 connector which provided both power and data to the monitor. I've never used or seen a 68040 cube in real life, but as far as I know, it is pretty similar to the 68030 cube in terms of the case being the same, except it is fitted with a 33 MHz 68040 processor. If you're lucky, some of these systems were shipped with NeXT's top-of-the-line NeXTDimension accelerated 24-bit color board. Consider yourself lucky if you've got one of these! Likewise, there were a few different types of Slabs. There were "regular" NeXTStation and NeXTStation Color systems (68040 @25), and there were Turbo NeXTStation and NeXTStation Color systems (68040 @33). You'll probably get performance equivelent to a "regular" 68040 Cube with either of the Turbo Station systems, however if your Cube happens to contain a NeXTDimension board, you'll blow everything else out there out of the water (when it comes to NeXT Black hardware). Will it run a usable Web browser? Depends on your definition of usable. You can get OmniWeb which is a nice browser, but, notably, it does not support features such as Java, JavaScript, style sheets, and frames (I think). It's not a speed daemon, but it's not terribly unusable either (although it can be kind of a dog when rendering lots of graphics; my system is a Color Slab with 32 megs of RAM and a 2 gig Barracuda to establish a frame of reference with what you may be using). NeXT made some really elegant systems, and I love the two that I've got (although they're pretty much used only recreationally). Is the NeXT Cube going to stack up to an Indigo2 in terms of raw power? Not likely. They are really nice systems though, and I'd definitely suggest hanging onto it, especially when you have a nice specimen such as a 68040 Cube. --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net > > A bit off-topic, but do they have a release of AGI's Satellite Tool Kit for > NeXTStep? It runs pretty well under IRIX. How does Rendezvous compare, or > have you used STK? I'm actually about three miles from the pad where IMAGE > was launched, BTW. We all climbed up on the roof to watch that one... > pretty nice launch if I remember right. Those Delta II's are really cool at > night, though. > > Scott > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 4 15:33:27 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Classic Cinemaware Games In-Reply-To: from "Dan Linder" at Dec 04, 2000 03:13:47 PM Message-ID: <200012042133.NAA31583@shell1.aracnet.com> > I have to say I *really* appreciate you posting this... Cinemaware games > were definitely a cut above, whether on Amiga or C64 (the two that I've > played them on) I hope that others will post such things as they see > them, as I get a feeling that more and more old software will be released No problem, I figured others besides me would be interested in it. Got to agree on the bit about hoping others will post simular info.... Hmmm, maybe an idea for a web page there (actually wouldn't surprise me if there already is a web page up for this). > in a free form (free of legal entangles, anyways... sure you can "pirate", > but it's nice to see old software released for free; it's the right thing > to do if there's no paying market anymore) ISTR, seeing a couple other cases of this, and in some cases they even release the source code. > > Hmmmm..... Looks like I've definitly got to get my Amiga 3000 back up and > > running! Something tells me I'll be working on that this weekend! > > me too... looks like the "roms" (NES audience I suppose) aren't available > yet for any platform... I better finish up my projects before those get > released. No work will be done for at least a week following that. :) Unfortunatly I didn't have time to get the Amiga 3000 out of storage, and it's the only way I can make floppies for the Amiga 500. So I didn't get to try any of the games out, didn't even get a chance to download any. The wierd thing on the ROMs is that IIRC, they listed the Amiga and Atari versions as ROMs?!?! Zane From sean at techcare.com Mon Dec 4 14:55:33 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: NEXTcube References: Message-ID: <00cc01c05e3c$ef25e260$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miller Scott Contr 30CS/FTI" To: Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 12:03 PM Subject: RE: NEXTcube > How's the NeXTcube compare to the NeXTstation? I'd never touched a NeXT of > any sort until last night. Someone on a local BBS posted a message looking > for a good home for an unwanted complete NeXTstation Turbo Color, so of > course I was there within the hour loading the thing up. It booted right up > and ran pretty dang well for a 33 MHz system. Running the Mandelbrot demo > program showed the lack of underlying horsepower, but I think it's still > more responsive overall than my old SPARCstations. For that matter, Windows > Explorer on a PII-400 can be a frustrating experience and it's nice to see a > system that makes good use of its resources. Plus, the whole thing just > LOOKS really cool. With a 33 MHz 68040 and 32 MB of RAM, will this thing > run a useable web browser? I've got an SGI Indigo2 in the living room for > web surfing right now, but maybe it's time to swap it out for an > easier-to-use system. Well, it depends which sort of cube you're talking about. There were two types, one based on the 68030 processor (at 25 MHz, I think), and one based on the 68040 (at 33, I think). They were identical chassis-wise, but the system boards were different, and the internal peripherals differed somewhat. The older 68030 systems shipped with a NeXT proprietary 256 megabyte optical drive. It's noisy and slow, but I think it's kind of cool anyway just in the fact that NeXT was the only vendor to ever ship optical storage as default on a system. In older 68030 systems you'll probably find smaller drives too (unless the system was upgraded). On the low end (a system designed to run off the optical drive and/or network), the system included a 40 megabyte drive for "paging", and things moved up from there. I think some REALLY old NeXT 68030 cubes might have shipped with TWO optical drives (or only one optical drive), but this arrangement was pretty detrimental to performance. System board video on the Cubes was grayscale, and everything (keyboard, mouse, etc) was broken out via the monitor which connected to the computer via a DB-15 connector which provided both power and data to the monitor. I've never used or seen a 68040 cube in real life, but as far as I know, it is pretty similar to the 68030 cube in terms of the case being the same, except it is fitted with a 33 MHz 68040 processor. If you're lucky, some of these systems were shipped with NeXT's top-of-the-line NeXTDimension accelerated 24-bit color board. Consider yourself lucky if you've got one of these! Likewise, there were a few different types of Slabs. There were "regular" NeXTStation and NeXTStation Color systems (68040 @25), and there were Turbo NeXTStation and NeXTStation Color systems (68040 @33). You'll probably get performance equivelent to a "regular" 68040 Cube with either of the Turbo Station systems, however if your Cube happens to contain a NeXTDimension board, you'll blow everything else out there out of the water (when it comes to NeXT Black hardware). Will it run a usable Web browser? Depends on your definition of usable. You can get OmniWeb which is a nice browser, but, notably, it does not support features such as Java, JavaScript, style sheets, and frames (I think). It's not a speed daemon, but it's not terribly unusable either (although it can be kind of a dog when rendering lots of graphics; my system is a Color Slab with 32 megs of RAM and a 2 gig Barracuda to establish a frame of reference with what you may be using). NeXT made some really elegant systems, and I love the two that I've got (although they're pretty much used only recreationally). Is the NeXT Cube going to stack up to an Indigo2 in terms of raw power? Not likely. They are really nice systems though, and I'd definitely suggest hanging onto it, especially when you have a nice specimen such as a 68040 Cube. --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net > > A bit off-topic, but do they have a release of AGI's Satellite Tool Kit for > NeXTStep? It runs pretty well under IRIX. How does Rendezvous compare, or > have you used STK? I'm actually about three miles from the pad where IMAGE > was launched, BTW. We all climbed up on the roof to watch that one... > pretty nice launch if I remember right. Those Delta II's are really cool at > night, though. > > Scott > From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Dec 4 13:55:52 2000 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: NEXTcube In-Reply-To: <200012041829.MAA32292@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Scott Miller wrote: >How's the NeXTcube compare to the NeXTstation? Cube is a chassis with backplane, 1 CPU/RAM/etc board and 3 slots usually empty. One more slot can contain the elusive and valuable NeXTDimension card, which drives a color monitor, eats video and does frame captures, etc. I don't know of any other widely available boards for the slots, so 2 slots are essentially superfluous. (Well, there is a hack to put spare CPU boards in spare slots, but those CPUs do not communicate over the backplane - they might as well be in a seperate chassis.) Cubes (only) can accomodate the magneto-optical drive, and other 5.25" full-height drives, in their central tower. Station, as you know, is a pizzabox with less expansion room. Performance, RAM capacity, etc. is generally identical between (Turbo, non-turbo) cubes and mono (Turbo, non-turbo) Stations. Stations, both non- and turbo, came in color versions. These were slightly slower than the equivalent mono, and required external sound boxes. Their color capability was not as good as the Dimension board's (not as many colors, no frame-grabber, etc.) >Someone on a local BBS posted a message looking >for a good home for an unwanted complete NeXTstation Turbo Color, so of >course I was there within the hour loading the thing up. ...how ... nice ... for ... you .... >...it's nice to see a >system that makes good use of its resources. NeXTs seem to do pretty well with what they have. The MO drive in the cubes is a standout underperformer as far as speed goes, but otherwise they're pretty responsive. >With a 33 MHz 68040 and 32 MB of RAM, will this thing >run a useable web browser? OmniWeb. Look at http://www.peak.org/next/apps/internet/www/ and grab everything that begins with Omni... . It will surf about 95% of the sites I hit. No Java, no animations. I count that a blessing. I also commend to your attention http://www.peak.org/next/apps/LighthouseDesign/ for an office suite of tools. I've got lots more NeXT-related bookmarks if anyone's interested in them. >A bit off-topic, but do they have a release of AGI's Satellite Tool Kit for >NeXTStep? Nope. (I wish. I've suggested it, and for Mac.) Rendezvous is around $100, and amounts to an STK-light. It does about everything the base (now free) STK does, and a bit more, but nothing like as much as the full-up $multi-00,000 STK suite. It's a bit pokey on a 25 MHz Cube. General question: is modern software for classic machines off-topic? I see it as a way to keep the machines productive, and therefore right on-topic. >pretty nice launch if I remember right. Those Delta II's are really cool at >night, though. McBoing pretty much hit our target orbit dead-on. I saw the video from Greenbelt MD. I was in the SMOC, telnetted to my NeXT and waiting to see whether the satellite would turn on when it separated from the 3rd stage. (It did. Whew! :-) ). Try: http://pluto.space.swri.edu/IMAGE/ to see Your Tax Dollars at work. - Mark From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 4 15:20:10 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: looking for Wyse 60 keyboard In-Reply-To: <3A2BFFD2.2040408@olf.com> from "Ram Meenakshisundaram" at Dec 4, 0 03:34:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 427 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001204/20231f6b/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 4 16:56:49 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: looking for Wyse 60 keyboard In-Reply-To: Re: looking for Wyse 60 keyboard (Ram Meenakshisundaram) References: <14891.64431.898831.761231@phaduka.neurotica.com> <3A2BFFD2.2040408@olf.com> Message-ID: <14892.8497.512811.244524@phaduka.neurotica.com> Ahh, thanks for the kind offer, but I will pass for now. I'm specifically looking for a Wyse60 keyboard because I have a Wyse 60 on a Cray YMP-EL system I just picked up...but it's missing the keyboard. The '60 is the console terminal that those machines shipped with, so I'm kinda wanting to keep it "standard". -Dave McGuire On December 4, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > Want a Wyse 75 terminal instead??? My days of terminal programming is > over. It is in pretty good condition especially since it was new at one > point. I never came around using it. It is probably covered in dust as > it is in the garage. Free for the taking. I am in New York. > > Ram > > Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > Hi folks. Anyone have a keyboard for a Wyse 60 that they'd be > > willing to part with? > > > > -Dave McGuire > > > > > > From emu at ecubics.com Mon Dec 4 17:17:18 2000 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: weir smm 200 power supply References: <200012042133.NAA31583@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3A2C25FE.9070302@ecubics.com> Hi all, anybody out here has a manual for it ? (made in U.K.) thanks, emanuel From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 4 17:13:19 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: weir smm 200 power supply In-Reply-To: <3A2C25FE.9070302@ecubics.com> from "emanuel stiebler" at Dec 4, 0 04:17:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 568 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001204/5da7ed14/attachment.ksh From LFessen106 at aol.com Mon Dec 4 17:20:54 2000 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: DECstation Haul... Message-ID: Hi Everyone! I just picked up a few DECstations (Thanks Carlos!) and was wondering what your impressions/suggestions for them would be. I picked up: 2 DECstation 5000/33 (Maxine) DECstation 5000/125 (3min - I think) DECstation 2100 (pmin - I think) The Maxine's and the 2100 are running Ultrix 4.2 and 4.3 respectively. The 2100 is running NetBSD. I didn't get any monitor with the 2100 and it's got some sort of mono frame buffer with a cable that terminates in a single bnc connector. Anyone know what I can hook this into to get some video? I did get monitors with both maxines, however, one is very dim. I have some other monitors that take the BNC type connectors but don't know what the frequencies are supposed to be on the Maxines and don't want to blow any of my old working monitors up trying them out arbitrarilly. Both Maxines are running expanded frame buffer cards (forget exactly the name and can't look at them right now). I also wanted to know if anyone knew where I could find Ultrix CD's and if it's possible to upgrade the scsi hard drives in these machines to something a little more spacious than their well-functioning-but-small 80's counterparts. These are my DECstations and I have to say I am impressed with them so far. They're DECent little unix boxen! I anxiously wait for any comments, hints, tips, and stories you may have for me regarding these computers. -Linc Fessenden Computer Collector http://members.aol.com/lfessen106 Lehigh Valley Linux User Group Cofounder/Coordinator http://thelinuxlink.net/lvlinux From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 4 17:24:46 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: ST82500N: Need jumpers/switches In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001204000838.02cfd0c0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > This sounds more like an IPI drive than a SCSI drive. But if it is SCSI > then there are a couple of things you can try: The Pocket PCRef lists three variants of the ST82500x - x=J=SMD-E, x=K=IPI-2, and x=N=SCSI. - don > 1) Look for a set of three jumpers somewhere that have 'id' or > 'addr' etched or silk screened near the board. If that doesn't work try > adding a jumper (carefully) at each point and then probing the bus until > the unit number changes. > 2) Read the code page and see if you can set the LUN to sometong > other than 0 > > --Chuck > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 4 17:48:35 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: MCS-80 System Design Kit In-Reply-To: <200012041832.KAA22626@civic.hal.com> References: <376.373T1950T3585559optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001204184835.3aef2e32@mailhost.intellistar.net> I'm looking for docs on the MCS-85 and MCS-86 boards. I have a pair of them that appear to be missing parts. Joe At 10:32 AM 12/4/00 -0800, Dwight wrote: >Hi > Over the weekend, I found two empty cards made by >Intel for the 8080. These cards are silk screened but >they only show the smaller components as "R1" without >values. The IC's are all labled. > Does anyone out there have the parts list for a >"MCS-80 System Design Kit"? >Dwight > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 4 17:52:10 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: References: <007a01c18de6$7bccd320$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001204185210.3aef031c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:27 AM 12/4/00 -0800, you wrote: >On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Josh Gibbs wrote: > >> I am looking for the original Osborne 1 and Osborne Executive >> documentation... any suggestions? A copy would be fine. A scanned copy >> would be even better. Is there an online archive of scanned documentation >> somewhere? Thanks. I have a lot of Osborne docs but I don't have the time to scan them. I will loan them out if someone can scan them and put the file on the net AND they will return the manuals promptly and in good condition. I'm still trying to get back my NEC MultiSpeed manuals that I loaned to one of the list members OVER two years ago! Joe From ncherry at home.net Mon Dec 4 17:38:55 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: New addition to the collection ... Message-ID: <3A2C2B0F.F5F58F6E@home.net> I just got my VS3100-M38 (Yes!) and within the next month I'll have a Vax cluster (if I get the time). It came with an 8M ram board but I had previously bid on a 24M set. So I'm almost ready to play with a VAX. Now if I can only get Linux loaded on my Compaq 4500R (3- PII/133 processors, 128M ram and an EISA system). I wonder if they'll let me send in the warranty cards (yes it's unused with no drives). Anyone have any quick hints on boot via the serial port and the pin out of the serial port (so I can hook it up to my terminal server). Dec LAT is next and I just saw an announcement for MOP too! -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 4 17:55:43 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: MCS-80 System Design Kit In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001204184835.3aef2e32@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 4, 0 06:48:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 644 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001204/a53c76cc/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Dec 4 16:07:01 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Dissecting a TZ30 drive Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001204160512.01961858@208.226.86.129> I have on my desk a TZ30 (half height TK50 drive) and it has a tape inside of it. Powering it up and pressing unload starts a rewind and then it gives up (all lights flash). I'm guessing the tape presense sensor is dirty or otherwise disabled but to get to it I really would like to remove the existing tape. Unfortuately I cannot find how to manually "unlock" the drive. Clues anyone? --Chuck From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 4 18:05:37 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Kansas City standard cassette recording Message-ID: A tad over two years ago, there was some dialogue about the Kansas City standard for cassette recording of microcomputer files, and a chap named Heinz W. Wiggeshoff provided some information via alt.folklore.computers, and offered both images of programatic nature and circuit information on request. (See following.) If anyone obtained those images and circuit information, please respond to philpem@btinternet.com with Cc to me. Many thanks. - don ================================= >From ordeal.cts.com!newshub.cts.com!usc!howland.erols.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 Tue Dec 9 12:52:46 1997 Path: ordeal.cts.com!newshub.cts.com!usc!howland.erols.net!torn!nott!cunews!freenet-news.carleton.ca!FreeNet.Carleton.CA!ab528 From: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers Subject: Re: Kansas City cassette recording format Date: 9 Dec 1997 19:00:30 GMT Organization: The National Capital FreeNet Lines: 53 Message-ID: <66k4ge$2ae@freenet-news.carleton.ca> References: Reply-To: ab528@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet5.carleton.ca X-Given-Sender: ab528@freenet5.carleton.ca (Heinz W. Wiggeshoff) Xref: ordeal.cts.com alt.folklore.computers:176771 X-Cache: nntpcache 1.0.7.1 (see ftp://suburbia.net/pub/nntpcache) Stephen Crane (jsc@outoften.doc.ic.ac.uk) writes: > Anyone out there got any technical information about this? I have > some cassettes of varying age and quality whose information I'd like > to retrieve, preferably using my PC's audio card. Ideally, someone > will have written a program for Linux which does this but, given the > info, I'll have a bash at it over Xmas. From Microprocessor Interfacing Techniques by Austin Lesea and Rodnay Zaks (whatever happened to him?) c/r 1978 SYBEX Inc. ISBN 0-89588-003-2 p. 128 KANSAS CITY STANDARD In order to use these inexpensive recorders in the hobby market, a standard was proposed and adopted by hobbyists. Using frequency shift keying techniques, and frequency double frequency [sic] modem techniques, this standard is easy to use. The drawback is the data rate of 30 characters per second. The system takes standard serial RS-232C data ... and converts each bit to either 8 cycles of 2400 hertz (a "1") or 4 cycles of 1200 hertz (a "0"). To generate this, only a few flip-flips [sic] are required along with a quad NAND gate. Shown in Fig. 4-55 is the modulator. [Image sent on request] [Circuit function, ditto] The demodulator must detect whether 1200 hertz or 2400 hertz tones are present. There are many ways of doing this; however a common one is to detect zero crossings of the input signal. This will generate either 2400 or 4800 pulses per second. [Circuit details sent on request] The circuit for the demodulator appears in Fig. 4-56. The de- modulator timing appears in Fig. 4-57. Note how one gets back what one started with, along with the necessary clock information. If the tape speed varies, the data may still be recovered as the clock information will insure the UART receives the proper timing signal. No special software is needed as this interface makes the cassette look like a paper-tape, punch-reader combination to the computer. [Images sent on request] (This format is found between the KIM cassette interface, and the One Chip Digital Cassette controller using the NEC UPD371D.) (Surprisingly, the documentation for my Heathkit ETA-3400 only mentions the frequencies, not the details of the encoding.) From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 4 18:24:39 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Question: Disk Mirroring preceding RAID? In-Reply-To: <3A2B99C5.913.E2C6D3C@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Stan Sieler wrote: > Re: > > Sounds like a patent suit :-) > > No...just an argument, really! (I'd mention if it was patent > oriented.) > > > This is kind of a specious argument. There were volume shadowing (aka > > hardware mirroring) products available before people started calling it > > "RAID" and in fact the IBM DASD farms could do volume shadowing and it > > isn't "RAID" because RAID is "Redundant Array of *Inexpensive* Disks" and > > 3380's certainly weren't "inexpensive." > > I dug up a copy of the original RAID article: "A Case for Redundant Arrays > of Inexpensive Disks (RAID)" by Patterson, Gibson, and Katz (from June, > 1988). > > They must have trained to be patent lawyers, because their definition > of RAID is verrrry broad! (To the point where software implemented > mirroring would still be called RAID1.) But actually, don't they have the cart before the horse and it is really a case of one form of RAID being mirroring? - don > Basically, I found that if I tried to forget that RAID was an > acronym with a meaning, I can see how people claim that any and all > disk mirroring is a form of RAID ... even if the mirroring preceded > the name "RAID". > > BTW, I found a reprint of the article in "Readings in Computer > Architecture", edited by Hill, Jouppi, and Sohi, > published in 2000 by Morgan Kaufmann. This is a great reference > book. Articles include: > > Architecture of the IBM System/360; by Amdahl, Blaauw, & Brooks > > Parallel Operation in the Control Data 6600 > > The Cray-1 Computer System > > Cray-1 Computer Technology > > Cramming More Components onto Integrated Circuits; by Gordon Moore > > wait...maybe there's a web site... > > http://www.mkp.com/books_catalog/catalog.asp?ISBN=1-55860-539-8 > > Chapter 1 - Classic Machines: Technology, Implementation, and Economics > Chapter 2 - Methods > Chapter 3 - Instruction Sets > Chapter 4 - Instruction Level Parallelism (ILP) > Chapter 5 - Dataflow and Multithreading > Chapter 6 - Memory Systems > Chapter 7 - I/O: Storage Systems, Networks, and Graphics > Chapter 8 - Single-Instruction Multiple Data (SIMD) Parallelism > Chapter 9 - Multiprocessors and Multicomputers > Chapter 10 - Recent Implementations and Future Prospects > > Highly recommended! > > Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 4 19:54:06 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: MCS-80 System Design Kit In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20001204184835.3aef2e32@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001204205406.395fc9f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:55 PM 12/4/00 +0000, Tony wrote: >> >> I'm looking for docs on the MCS-85 and MCS-86 boards. I have a pair of >> them that appear to be missing parts. > >I have a 3rd party book on the MCS85, which includes the schematics (and >ROM source for that matter). The title is 'Microcomputer Theory and >Applications with the Intel SDK-85', published by Wiley, ISBN >0-471-09631-8. Being a book rather than a manual, you might have some >luck getting it through a library. > >There are several sockets on the SDK-85 that are not used in the 'basic' >configuration. They're for bus buffers that are only installed if you >want to use the off-card expansion connectors and things. Thanks. I'll see if I can find it through a library loan or from ABEBOOKS.COM. Joe > >-tony > From optimus at canit.se Mon Dec 4 19:02:40 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: DECstation Haul... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2211.374T2000T1225781optimus@canit.se> LFessen106 skrev: >Hi Everyone! >I just picked up a few DECstations (Thanks Carlos!) and was wondering what >your impressions/suggestions for them would be. >I picked up: >2 DECstation 5000/33 (Maxine) Drool. >DECstation 5000/125 (3min - I think) Drool. >DECstation 2100 (pmin - I think) Hm... >The Maxine's and the 2100 are running Ultrix 4.2 and 4.3 respectively. The >2100 is running NetBSD. >I didn't get any monitor with the 2100 and it's got some sort of mono frame >buffer with a cable that terminates in a single bnc connector. Anyone know >what I can hook this into to get some video? I did get monitors with both >maxines, however, one is very dim. I have some other monitors that take the >BNC type connectors but don't know what the frequencies are supposed to be on > the Maxines and don't want to blow any of my old working monitors up trying >them out arbitrarilly. Both Maxines are running expanded frame buffer cards >(forget exactly the name and can't look at them right now). I also wanted to > know if anyone knew where I could find Ultrix CD's and if it's possible to >upgrade the scsi hard drives in these machines to something a little more >spacious than their well-functioning-but-small 80's counterparts. These are >my DECstations and I have to say I am impressed with them so far. They're >DECent little unix boxen! I anxiously wait for any comments, hints, tips, >and stories you may have for me regarding these computers. There is a man on eBay who sells Ultrix CDs, he's got a set up for sale right now. Of course it's possible to upgrade the hard drive. The only limitation would be the boot partition, which should be kept at a 1 GB maximum, IIRC. As for the frequencies, I have no idea. It is odd that this is specified nowhere on the net, though a search through the NetBSD/pmax list would probably give enough info. I'd love to see a DEC equivalent to sunhelp.org, for DECstation hardware really is obscure, in the sense of being murky and unknown, not to mentionm having pretty names like PMAG-BA, PMAG-C, PNAD, PDET und so weiter. =/ -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Only God can make a random selection. (Even though the computer randomly chose this message) From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 4 19:07:17 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Question: Disk Mirroring preceding RAID? References: <3A2B77BC.11608.DA777A4@localhost> Message-ID: <002101c05e57$b6710600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Back in '90. I tried the Novell NETWARE approach to mirroring, but was unable to make it work. That was due to the fact that the ADAPTEC controller I was using didn't really work correctly at the alternate address with the driver they provided for that purpose. I quickly abandoned it, in favor of the software RAID offered by NT. It's theoretically quite solid, but I've never used it myself. The NT (software) approach seems more solid. RAID is always done in software to greater or lesser extent. The RISC processors commonly used on "RAID-5-capable" controllers is really the same thing as it really doesn't matter who runs the software. Unfortunately, under NT4, there were problems with inter-process communication before SP3. That would make anybody suspicious. My NT server was emulating the NETWARE server, yet had the advantage of the software compression offered by NT and the built-in backup (not the best imaginable, but the best there is ) AND it emulates the NETWARE server so I can use it from DOS workstations. regards, Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Sieler" To: Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 11:53 AM Subject: Question: Disk Mirroring preceding RAID? > Hi, > > Need help in settling argument...does disk mirroring (via hardware) > predate RAID's mirroring capability? (I'm not interested in > OS software implemented mirroring here.) > > Also, are there any hardware mirror methods that one could point > to and say: this is not capable of being called any kind of RAID! > (The argument in question is over the statement that > "all hardware based mirroring is a form of RAID".) > > For example, is there any "stealth hardware mirroring" mechanism, > where a drive watches the bus, and obeys writes, but nothing else? > (This would be "drive-based" mirroring, as opposed to "controller- > based mirroring") (Since RAID is controller-based, a drive-based > mirroring mechanism would seem to be clearly not any kind of RAID.) > > thanks! > > Stan > > Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 4 19:30:12 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: DECstation Haul... In-Reply-To: <2211.374T2000T1225781optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Dec 05, 2000 02:02:40 AM Message-ID: <200012050132.RAA17032@shell1.aracnet.com> > I'd love to see a DEC equivalent to sunhelp.org, for DECstation hardware > really is obscure, in the sense of being murky and unknown, not to mentionm > having pretty names like PMAG-BA, PMAG-C, PNAD, PDET und so weiter. =/ Check out the PMAX section of http://www.netbsd.org it's got about the best info around on DECstations. Zane From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Dec 4 15:20:56 2000 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: WTB: voltages on power connector for IBM P70/P75 plamsa display. In-Reply-To: <0012041124070E.00326@Billbob_Linux> References: <20001204164949.16310.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20001205021210.XFQ24951.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> Hi, subject says all and yes both luggables are past 10 year mark. I found both P70 and P75 compatiable except for one pin offset on the power connector at display end. I still have same flicker problem w/ P75. I *DO* need the voltages info so I'll expect what to see when I check mine, I think one of power for display is barely weak to initially ingite neon gases. After initial ingition, any horizontal pixels lines below first lines that is kept lit doesn't have flicker. But if any lines that're below lit pixels and enough horizontal pixels are off, next first one down has the flicker. Same on switched over P70 display w/ one lead moved on panel power connector on P75's same PSU. I intially thought my P75 display was at fault but the P70 panel on P75 smashed that theory. Will anyone check their P70/P75 and list the volts on that 5 wire power connector by the pin numbers and voltage on each pin? These power supplies in both P70 is 85W, P75 is appox 120W so not good idea to swap especially on P75. I want to get mine all straigthened out and put to use after flicker problem is solved for good so anyone mind to haul out your tools and get cracking will you? Cheers, Wizard From eweidenh1 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 4 20:22:59 2000 From: eweidenh1 at hotmail.com (Erich Weidenhammer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Moving data to an Apple II Message-ID: I have two apple II computers, a IIgs (Rom 0- no operating system)and an Apple IIc. Both have floppies and both have the latest 8 bit apple DOS. Neither have modems or any communication software. I am trying to get software from my PC to the apples using a Mac Classic II as a bridge. I can get Shrinkit and BinCSII to work on the apples but I need .txt files to work with. Unfortunately, somewhere between the PC and the apples, the resource fork designating the file type gets garbled so BinSCII can't recognise the .txt files. Does anybody know where I can find a Macintosh image file of an Apple II disk with Fazz or another attribute changer on it? Does anyone know of another way to get files onto the Apples with the tools I have? Also, where can I find a copy of an early OS for a Rom 0 IIgs? Thanks all, Erich _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From thedm at sunflower.com Mon Dec 4 21:35:55 2000 From: thedm at sunflower.com (TheDM) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Moving data to an Apple II References: Message-ID: <02b001c05e6c$79aaf5e0$b03c7c18@thedm> Try this, transfer the software compressed to the PC first. There is a version of shrinkit, and I belive Binscii for the PC and uncompress them there. I'm sure I had to do this myself. If you can't find the software, I prolly have it somewhere, email me personally if you can't find it. hint, check the IIGs emulator pages for the PC Binscii. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Erich Weidenhammer" To: Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 8:22 PM Subject: Moving data to an Apple II > I have two apple II computers, a IIgs (Rom 0- no operating system)and > an Apple IIc. Both have floppies and both have the latest 8 bit apple DOS. > Neither have modems or any communication software. I am trying to get > software from my PC to the apples using a Mac Classic II as a bridge. I can > get Shrinkit and BinCSII to work on the apples but I need .txt files to work > with. > Unfortunately, somewhere between the PC and the apples, the resource > fork designating the file type gets garbled so BinSCII can't recognise the > .txt files. Does anybody know where I can find a Macintosh image file of an > Apple II disk with Fazz or another attribute changer on it? Does anyone know > of another way to get files onto the Apples with the tools I have? > > Also, where can I find a copy of an early OS for a Rom 0 IIgs? > > Thanks all, > Erich > > > ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ > Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com > From Glenatacme at aol.com Mon Dec 4 21:38:33 2000 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: <51.44318c2.275dbd39@aol.com> Mike -- Thanks for the very helpful information about this drive. The "documentation" consists of a user's manual with no technical data. The connector on the TS2068 version is different than what you describe but otherwise it seems the same. There were actually two versions for the TS2068, each using a slightly different tape. Both types seem to be equally unreliable. The tapes self-destruct if you look at them the wrong way. In fact, these are absolutely the crappiest storage devices I have ever seen used on any computer. Any challengers for worst storage device? Glen Goodwin 0/0 From vaxman at uswest.net Mon Dec 4 21:49:13 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Question: Disk Mirroring preceding RAID? In-Reply-To: <3A2B77BC.11608.DA777A4@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Stan Sieler wrote: > Hi, > > Need help in settling argument...does disk mirroring (via hardware) > predate RAID's mirroring capability? (I'm not interested in > OS software implemented mirroring here.) > The term "disk mirroring" predates the term "RAID 1". The authors of the RAID paper (students IIRC) just assigned a standard name to it. > Also, are there any hardware mirror methods that one could point > to and say: this is not capable of being called any kind of RAID! > (The argument in question is over the statement that > "all hardware based mirroring is a form of RAID".) > Hmmm. I think RAID 1 is defined at a high enough level to encompass all mirror techniques (hardware and software). IE RAID 1 is maintaining an exact copy of the data on two (or more?) drives. > For example, is there any "stealth hardware mirroring" mechanism, > where a drive watches the bus, and obeys writes, but nothing else? > (This would be "drive-based" mirroring, as opposed to "controller- > based mirroring") (Since RAID is controller-based, a drive-based > mirroring mechanism would seem to be clearly not any kind of RAID.) > > thanks! > > Stan > > Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com > www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler > > From optimus at canit.se Mon Dec 4 22:05:14 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: DECstation Haul... In-Reply-To: <200012050132.RAA17032@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <537.374T700T3053929optimus@canit.se> healyzh skrev: >> I'd love to see a DEC equivalent to sunhelp.org, for DECstation hardware >> really is obscure, in the sense of being murky and unknown, not to mentionm >> having pretty names like PMAG-BA, PMAG-C, PNAD, PDET und so weiter. =/ >Check out the PMAX section of http://www.netbsd.org it's got about the best >info around on DECstations. I find that the DECstation Linux homepage is slightly informative, too, but none of them comes even close to Sunhelp. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. The future isn't what it used to be. From chobbs at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 4 22:25:55 2000 From: chobbs at socal.rr.com (charles hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) References: <51.44318c2.275dbd39@aol.com> Message-ID: <3A2C6E53.EB49615E@socal.rr.com> Glenatacme@aol.com wrote: > [...] A&J microdrive > > Any challengers for worst storage device? The tape drive on the ADAM home computer. It was known to (among other things) inadvertently *erase* tapes left on top of it... From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Dec 4 22:35:12 2000 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: <20001204.223514.-3888641.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Mon, 4 Dec 2000 22:38:33 EST Glenatacme@aol.com writes: > In fact, these are absolutely the crappiest storage devices I have > ever seen > used on any computer. > > Any challengers for worst storage device? Yes-- The KALOK Octagon-20. The absolute worst MFM drive (and perhaps the worst rotating memory of *any* sort) ever manufactured. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 4 23:57:18 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's Emulators Message-ID: <200012050557.VAA32762@shell1.aracnet.com> OK, this is interesting.... It seems the emulators are now at V2.5 and they've got a web page. Support has been added for the HP2100 and Interdata 4. http://www.tiac.net/users/mps/retro/ There is a link on the page to some cool pic's. Zane From elmo at mminternet.com Tue Dec 5 00:09:55 2000 From: elmo at mminternet.com (Eliot Moore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Question: Disk Mirroring preceding RAID? References: <3A2B77BC.11608.DA777A4@localhost> Message-ID: <3A2C86B2.8B43E5C9@mminternet.com> Stan Sieler wrote: > Need help in settling argument...does disk mirroring (via hardware) > predate RAID's mirroring capability? (I'm not interested in > OS software implemented mirroring here.) At least in actual use. The Sigma/Webster q-bus SMD and ESDI controllers provided drive mirroring for PDP-11 and uVax systems, at least a year before I recall any RAID technology being sold. From whdawson at mlynk.com Tue Dec 5 00:18:25 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <20001204.223514.-3888641.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <000f01c05e83$2cd72d80$1f9f72d1@cobweb.net> -> > Any challengers for worst storage device? -> -> Yes-- The KALOK Octagon-20. The absolute worst -> MFM drive (and perhaps the worst rotating memory of -> *any* sort) ever manufactured. I think they are great storage devices. I use the cover from one on my workbench to hold all the fasteners, etc. from whatever I happen to be currently working on. I guess you could call this one a HEX-A-GONE now. (I also have one that is still operational. They do have a classic, distinctive look to them.) Bill From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Dec 5 06:57:50 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:26 2005 Subject: Bob Supnik's Emulators In-Reply-To: <200012050557.VAA32762@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Dec 4, 2000 09:57:18 pm" Message-ID: <200012051257.eB5CvoW06878@bg-tc-ppp576.monmouth.com> > OK, this is interesting.... It seems the emulators are now at V2.5 and > they've got a web page. Support has been added for the HP2100 and > Interdata 4. > > http://www.tiac.net/users/mps/retro/ > > There is a link on the page to some cool pic's. > > Zane They're pretty cool... I did a RSTS/E sysgen on the emulated 11/70. Anyone got any RSTS/E docs on the net? I do like Doug Jones' PDP8 emulator a bit better since it does the 8E -- front panel switch, blinkenlights and all. You can single step it wit a mouse. You can do it in the house. You can do it here and there. With a laptop it runs anywhere. Apologies to Theodore Geisel... I wish there was a DEC front panel option for the emulated 11/70. I'd love to see the different light patterns again. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Tue Dec 5 08:37:31 2000 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: CAMAC stuff for sale Message-ID: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E8067F219B@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> Rich, I have some Multibus too that I would be interested in swapping. Arlen -- Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com Nortel Networks, Ottawa, Canada voice (613) 763-2568 fax (613) 763-9344 > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [SMTP:edick@idcomm.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 10:24 AM > To: classiccmp > Subject: Re: CAMAC stuff for sale > > If you mean Multibus-I, then I have too! I've got a number of card cages > as > well as several CPU's, disk controllers, etc. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joe" > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2000 3:04 AM > Subject: Re: CAMAC stuff for sale > > > > At 01:58 PM 12/1/00 -0500, you wrote: > > >Hello all, > > > > > >I am currently negotiating to buy some Multibus stuff from a gentleman > named > > >Anton Auersperg (If anyone else has any Multibus items, please let me > know). > > > > Hi Rich, > > > > I have some Multibus stuff including an Intel model 235 MDS system. > > > > Joe > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001205/8513dce5/attachment.html From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Dec 5 09:18:47 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: TS1000 gets $800 composite monitor Message-ID: <200012051518.HAA08154@stockholm.ptloma.edu> I have found a new use for my Power Mac G3: as a composite monitor for my Timex Sinclair 1000. Now that's quality! :-P Here's the question. I picked up a Formac ProTV tuner card with composite and S-video input, and two antenna jacks (TV/cable and FM). This is on-topic because actually I will be using this set-up to do video frame grabs from the Tomy Tutor and the Commodore 128 -- and possibly even movies. Composite input works fine thanks to the mod Glen put in the TS1000 (tip of the hat :-). No sound, of course. RF input, however, does not -- and since I'll be doing vid captures from the Commodore, I'd love to capture SID music in there also, so that rules out plain old composite input (it doesn't have audio inputs). Does anyone know of gotchas with TV tuner cards in general for capturing RF? Is anyone familiar with this card? (Hans, they're your countrymen, but their U.S. office is near Sam, in Pleasanton.) I'm just using a regular old R**** S**** switchbox (slide, not automatic) and terminating in antenna leads, which I'm turning into coax. Works great on my television, but nothing out of the video card. (Power Mac 7300/180 with Sonnet G3/400, OS 8.6, ATI Rage 128 video, 64MB.) Ideas or suggestions? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It's not enough to be Hungarian. You must have talent too. -- Alex Korda --- From rmeenaks at olf.com Tue Dec 5 09:41:02 2000 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: looking for Wyse 60 keyboard References: Message-ID: <3A2D0C8E.3090808@olf.com> :-) what I meant was that when I brought it home with me, it was a brand-new terminal and I only used it about 3 times. It was my console terminal for my Sun IPX before I got a Sun monitor. Havent used it since. Free to anyone for the cost of shipping (or if you want to pick it up that is fine with me). Ram Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > Want a Wyse 75 terminal instead??? My days of terminal programming is > > over. It is in pretty good condition especially since it was new at one > > point. I never came around using it. It is probably covered in dust as > > it is in the garage. Free for the taking. I am in New York. > > > Doesn't '... it was new at one point' apply to just about everything? > I've yet to see a terminal that was _always_ old :-) > > -tony > > > From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 5 09:44:00 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: TS1000 gets $800 composite monitor In-Reply-To: <200012051518.HAA08154@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001205094057.00aeb220@pc> At 07:18 AM 12/5/00 -0800, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >RF input, however, does not -- and since I'll be doing vid captures from the >Commodore, I'd love to capture SID music in there also, so that rules out >plain old composite input (it doesn't have audio inputs). You asked a dozen questions and considered a number of permutations, but I thought I'd add that you can use a VCR to perform some conversions: RF Ch. 3/4 to composite and audio, or vice-versa. Standalone boxes from Radio Shack can do this, too. My junk habit has revealed the existence of nice modular RF converters inside discarded Primestar decoder boxes, which you can find by the Dumpster-full behind satellite dealer stores. - John From dlinder at uiuc.edu Tue Dec 5 10:01:37 2000 From: dlinder at uiuc.edu (Dan Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: Classic Cinemaware Games In-Reply-To: <200012042133.NAA31583@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Dec 2000 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > The wierd thing on the ROMs is that IIRC, they listed the Amiga and Atari > versions as ROMs?!?! I think in "Youngster Lingo" (tm) "ROMs" = "Games" due to the popularity of NES, etc, emulators, people go looking for "ROMs" instead of Games - it's sort of like "warez". :) - Dan Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science - Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant - DoRES Computer Accessibility Researcher - All-Around Tech Mercenary for Hire From dogas at bellsouth.net Tue Dec 5 11:05:08 2000 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: new finds and... Atari 810/1050 help Message-ID: <009c01c05edd$86f60f70$a7794ed8@DOMAIN> I was about to pass over an Apple IIgs at a local thrift store but didn't when I found a bunch of Sequential Systems cards in it. It's a rom 3 one thats got a RamFast/SCSI board, a VGA card!, a 7mhz(I think) ZipGSX board that displaces the gs's cpu by plugging into the cpu socket (and slotted too). There's also another card (in the first slot on the left) that has an eprom with a Sequential Systems label (SS, copyright 1993, rev QP290-BG) and a connector (like one interface from a drive II card) that I don't know anything about. It's nice using it with a VGA, and the zip makes a few of the ][ games I have on hand unplayably speedy. I've got a hd with gs/os that's momentarily unlocatable but I'm digging and hopeful. ;) Also. Does anyone have a service proceedure or any info on repairing atari disk drives. I have a 'stack' of em and many are having problems. Thanks - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue Dec 5 11:21:14 2000 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: Classic Cinemaware Games Message-ID: <20001205.112721.-518929.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Tue, 5 Dec 2000 10:01:37 -0600 (CST) Dan Linder writes: > I think in "Youngster Lingo" (tm) "ROMs" = "Games" due to the > popularity > of NES, etc, emulators, people go looking for "ROMs" instead of > Games - > it's sort of like "warez". :) > > - Dan I always thought the sort that would go looking for 'warez' would be on the hunt for 'ROMz' . . . ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Tue Dec 5 11:25:17 2000 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: <20001205.112721.-518929.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Tue, 5 Dec 2000 01:18:25 -0500 "Bill Dawson" writes: > -> > Any challengers for worst storage device? > -> > -> Yes-- The KALOK Octagon-20. The absolute worst > -> MFM drive (and perhaps the worst rotating memory of > -> *any* sort) ever manufactured. > > I think they are great storage devices. I use the cover from one on > my workbench to hold all the fasteners, etc. from whatever I happen to > be currently working on. I guess you could call this one a HEX-A-GONE > now. Don't you mean OCT-A-GONE? :^) > (I also have one that is still operational. They do have a classic, > distinctive look to them.) Yeah, we thought they looked pretty cool too-- until they started coming back. I think every single one we deployed that summer came back before it was over . . . Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From gregorym at cadvision.com Tue Dec 5 11:47:45 2000 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: new finds and... Atari 810/1050 help References: <009c01c05edd$86f60f70$a7794ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <009301c05ee3$79926bc0$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 10:05 AM Subject: new finds and... Atari 810/1050 help > I was about to pass over an Apple IIgs at a local thrift store but didn't > when I found a bunch of Sequential Systems cards in it. It's a rom 3 one > thats got a RamFast/SCSI board, a VGA card!, a 7mhz(I think) ZipGSX board > that displaces the gs's cpu by plugging into the cpu socket (and slotted > too). There's also another card (in the first slot on the left) that has an > eprom with a Sequential Systems label (SS, copyright 1993, rev QP290-BG) > and a connector (like one interface from a drive II card) that I don't know > anything about. It's nice using it with a VGA, and the zip makes a few of > the ][ games I have on hand unplayably speedy. I've got a hd with gs/os > that's momentarily unlocatable but I'm digging and hopeful. ;) > > Also. Does anyone have a service proceedure or any info on repairing atari > disk drives. I have a 'stack' of em and many are having problems. > > Thanks > - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net > Mike, nice find! Which also illustrates the first rule of thrift shopping: Before passing up anything, always open the case! You never know what rare and desirable stuff lurks inside that battered and forlorn looking Apple II / Atari 800 / Coleco ADAM / etc. Any collector worth his or her salt should never go on an expedition without a pocket tool containing an assortment of screw and socket drivers. Anyway, I think I have an Atari disk drive service manual at home. I'll check tonight and get back to you. Cheers, Mark. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 5 12:22:30 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <51.44318c2.275dbd39@aol.com> from "Glenatacme@aol.com" at Dec 4, 0 10:38:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 645 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001205/0d7d52bb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 5 12:27:00 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: TS1000 gets $800 composite monitor In-Reply-To: <200012051518.HAA08154@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Dec 5, 0 07:18:47 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1078 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001205/8bd90a0b/attachment.ksh From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Tue Dec 5 13:23:21 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0012051323210E.00284@Billbob_Linux> Hey I remember this... > Any disk drive without a track 0 sensor (Apple ][, Commodore, etc). The > heads bang themselves out of alignment with time. OPEN 15,8,15,"I0:NEWDISK,ND" BRRRRRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!! (let the record reflect that the email author made a Sten machinegun noise). I remember making a timing light for Commodore 1541 drives out of a neon lamp and a 1N4007 diode, which one would play on the timing marks on the drive spindle. Then there was a pot you could adjust to change the rate of the spindle motor. -- Bill Layer Sales Technician From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Dec 5 14:36:25 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: Question: Disk Mirroring preceding RAID? Message-ID: Other disk configurations I seem to remember that there were dual ported CDC disk drives used by AT&T with their 3B20's as a reliable but not cheap mechanism to increase throughput, mirror data, and allow online backups without shutting down the machines. The Western Electric plant in Kansas City used these configurations to monitor memory chip production. I don't remember the model number but I seem to remember that they looked like RP04's. Each machine in a pair had 2 dedicated disk drives and 1 shared disk drive. RAID = Redundant Array of *Inexpensive* Disks REDHUT = Really expensive disks hooked up together I believe that EMC and Storage Tech are currently both trying to go into the REDHUT business. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From msg at computerpro.com Tue Dec 5 14:53:15 2000 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: CDC Sabre information References: Message-ID: <3A2D55BB.53B2E7DC@computerpro.com> Re: ST82500N or CDC/Imprimis 97201-25G : This sight has a basic geometry descrtiption for this drive, as does a text file on Seagate's ftp site, but nothing more. Allow me to promote a little more research: This is a DISK SUBSYSTEM, not just a drive; it is a fifty pound chassis containing sabre hba, various electronics assemblies, power supply, rear panel connectors and switches and front panel hexadecimal keypad and membrane switches. This unit is not a 3rd-party assembly of components but is CDC/Imprimis/Seagate manufacture. The model number is not attached to the hba alone, but to every major assembly in the device. It's previous owner suggested that it may have been removed from a CDC system (no model suggested). VAX compatibility lists also list this device by the exact model number given above. Any VAX owners have setup/operation info? Anyone have a cross- reference to DEC model numbers? Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" wrote: > > http://www.pc-disk.de/pcdisk > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Dec 5 15:10:08 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <0012051323210E.00284@Billbob_Linux> from Bill Layer at "Dec 5, 0 01:23:21 pm" Message-ID: <200012052110.NAA11208@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Hey I remember this... > > > Any disk drive without a track 0 sensor (Apple ][, Commodore, etc). The > > heads bang themselves out of alignment with time. > > OPEN 15,8,15,"I0:NEWDISK,ND" True for 1541s, but not 1571s. 1571s do have a track 0 sensor. And a v3.1 1571 is the best 5.25" drive out there, I submit -- with appropriate software, a 1571 can read most MFM formats, plus Commodore GCR, and runs very fast when connected to a 128 in 128 mode. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The Commodore 64: the last true plug-and-play computer. -------------------- From msg at computerpro.com Tue Dec 5 14:58:04 2000 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: ST82500N: Need jumpers/switches References: <3A2AE475.D74E75D9@computerpro.com> <3A2B282A.239EEF60@eoni.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20001204000838.02cfd0c0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3A2D56DC.F0BB2D0C@computerpro.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > 1) Look for a set of three jumpers somewhere that have 'id' or > 'addr' etched or silk screened near the board. If that doesn't work try > adding a jumper (carefully) at each point and then probing the bus until > the unit number changes. No such luck with silk-screen labels, and the electronics contains large numbers of switches and jumper headers, none of which are obvious candidates for playing... > 2) Read the code page and see if you can set the LUN to sometong > other than 0 I like that idea and will try it, however it is still important to learn how to setup and maintain the device. It is a disk subsystem as contrasts a 'drive'; I will post a small jpg of it perhaps later... Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 5 14:01:51 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: new finds and... Atari 810/1050 help In-Reply-To: <009c01c05edd$86f60f70$a7794ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Mike wrote: > I was about to pass over an Apple IIgs at a local thrift store but didn't > when I found a bunch of Sequential Systems cards in it. It's a rom 3 one > thats got a RamFast/SCSI board, a VGA card!, a 7mhz(I think) ZipGSX board > that displaces the gs's cpu by plugging into the cpu socket (and slotted > too). There's also another card (in the first slot on the left) that has an > eprom with a Sequential Systems label (SS, copyright 1993, rev QP290-BG) > and a connector (like one interface from a drive II card) that I don't know > anything about. It's nice using it with a VGA, and the zip makes a few of > the ][ games I have on hand unplayably speedy. I've got a hd with gs/os > that's momentarily unlocatable but I'm digging and hopeful. ;) Lucky son-bitch. That's a bad-ass system. :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Dec 5 15:19:32 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: TS1000 gets $800 composite monitor In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Dec 5, 0 06:27:00 pm" Message-ID: <200012052119.NAA10222@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > My first guess is that you're not tuning the TV card to the right channel > -- either there's a fault or (more likely) you're not selecting the right > channel in software. I'd start by checking what channel the TS/C128 is > outputting on (normally VHF channel 3 or 4 in the States I believe) and > making sure that's what you've really selected. > The tuner seems to work okay, at least for UHF. It wants things in MHz if I want to do finer frequency tuning, though. What is the official USA frequencies for channels 3 and 4 (or is this listed somewhere)? The tuner thinks that channel three is 61.26MHz and channel 4 is 67.25. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Rational behavior is a choice, not a predestination. -- Kent Paul Dolan ---- From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 5 15:31:16 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <0012051323210E.00284@Billbob_Linux> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Bill Layer wrote: > Hey I remember this... > > > Any disk drive without a track 0 sensor (Apple ][, Commodore, etc). The > > heads bang themselves out of alignment with time. > > OPEN 15,8,15,"I0:NEWDISK,ND" > > BRRRRRRRAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!! (let the record reflect that the email > author made a Sten machinegun noise). ^^^^\ - Boy, there is a name from the past! Don't think I have hear/read it since the Uzi came on the scene. - don > I remember making a timing light for Commodore 1541 drives out of a neon lamp > and a 1N4007 diode, which one would play on the timing marks on the drive > spindle. Then there was a pot you could adjust to change the rate of the > spindle motor. > > -- > Bill Layer > Sales Technician > > From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Tue Dec 5 15:37:59 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: CDC Sabre information In-Reply-To: <3A2D55BB.53B2E7DC@computerpro.com> Message-ID: <000701c05f03$a4753820$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Re: ST82500N or CDC/Imprimis 97201-25G : I have a Similar sounding CDC SMD FSD setup at home. A resource lookup just now found this page (mdl 'j', not 'n'): http://www.seagate.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi?/smd/st82500j.txt I'm not a total expert in classic HW, I was an end-user and not an SE in the 80's. But it seemed that DEC didn't prefer SMD HDD's, but Data General, Apollo, Sun and others did. I'm sure some/many SMD ->DEC adaptor boards were available (Emulex?) but they may not have been in the majority. That's about it from me. Enjoy the horsepower. John A. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 5 15:51:43 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: CDC Sabre information Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB387@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > > Re: ST82500N or CDC/Imprimis 97201-25G : > This sight has a basic geometry descrtiption for this drive, as does > a text file on Seagate's ftp site, but nothing more. > This sounds to me like an SMD drive subsystem... Michael- does the front of it look anything like what can be seen in the photo in this link: http://members.iglou.com/dougq/p2455/thmb_ICS&Cipher.jpg The item at the lwer left inside the large chassis is what I'm referring to. regards, -doug q From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 5 15:54:31 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <51.44318c2.275dbd39@aol.com> Message-ID: >In fact, these are absolutely the crappiest storage devices I have ever seen >used on any computer. > >Any challengers for worst storage device? I learned to hate the cassette interface on the AIM65 over time pretty intensely. Without the early suffering I think you can't fully appreciate how wonderfull a CDR or CDRW is. From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Dec 5 17:42:08 2000 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: IBM Displaywriter available in LA Message-ID: <3A2D28F0.16752.1C9EFEA@localhost> Contact the person below if you are interested. ------------------------ From: KirkwoodBS@aol.com Date sent: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 17:35:01 EST Subject: IBM Displaywriter Hello, I have an IBM Displaywriter system, 5218 A04 printer, program disks and complete set of manuals. This is a big, dedicated word processing system but I'd like to find someone who'd want it. I hate to just trash it. Do you, or do you know of anyone who may like this equipment? If not, any suggestions of how to dispose of it? I am located in Los Angeles CA. Thank you Bobby --------------- ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From gaz_k at lineone.net Mon Dec 4 17:12:02 2000 From: gaz_k at lineone.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: Classic Cinemaware Games References: <200012042133.NAA31583@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <001701c05f19$3a83a120$0101010a@pentium2> Zane wrote: > The wierd thing on the ROMs is that IIRC, they listed the Amiga and Atari > versions as ROMs?!?! The UAE dUdeZ would be confused by a Disk Image. Rom is easier to spell. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | Team Amiga | Classic Computer Collector http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress | International Man of Mystery From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 5 18:45:01 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: old floppy drives References: Message-ID: <009201c05f1d$c8775d10$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> How do I tell a 1.2 meg drive from a 360 drive, and the 720 from the 1.44? I have 2 boxes of drives that came with the terminals From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 5 18:44:38 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: Use for a 3270 terminal References: Message-ID: <009101c05f1d$c5507a90$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> I picked up a bunch of old stuff, mostly parts and old terminals. Can a 3270 terminal be used as a monitor? From Mzthompson at aol.com Tue Dec 5 19:00:11 2000 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: DECstation Haul... Message-ID: <47.453f488.275ee99b@aol.com> On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > Hi Everyone! > I just picked up a few DECstations (Thanks Carlos!) and was wondering what > your impressions/suggestions for them would be. > I picked up: > 2 DECstation 5000/33 (Maxine) > DECstation 5000/125 (3min - I think) > DECstation 2100 (pmin - I think) > > The Maxine's and the 2100 are running Ultrix 4.2 and 4.3 respectively. The > 2100 is running NetBSD. > I didn't get any monitor with the 2100 and it's got some sort of mono frame > buffer with a cable that terminates in a single bnc connector. Anyone know > what I can hook this into to get some video? I did get monitors with both > maxines, however, one is very dim. I have some other monitors that take the > BNC type connectors but don't know what the frequencies are supposed to be on > the Maxines and don't want to blow any of my old working monitors up trying > them out arbitrarilly. Both Maxines are running expanded frame buffer cards > (forget exactly the name and can't look at them right now). Here some info I put together a while back that may help some. Mike DEC Monitor Specifications Following are listed the specs for some of the common DEC monitors that are finding their way into the hobbyist area. The specs were taken from the following DEC manuals: EK-VR290-IN-002 (1985); EK-VR299-IN (1989); EK-VR319-TC-001 (1991); EK-VR320-IN-001 (1990); EK-VRT16-TC-001 (1991); EK-VRT19-TC-001 (1991); ER-VRT19-OP-002 --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Monitor Overview Resolution Frequencies Model Horiz Vert Horiz - Khz Vert - Hz -------- ------ ---- ----------- --------- VR299 1024 x 864 54.054 60 VR320-CA 1280 x 1024 70.66 66.47 * VR320-DA 1280 x 1024 77.13 72.56 * VRT19-DA 1280 x 1024 70.7 66.5 (aka Sony GDM-1960) VRT19-HA ** 1280 x 1024 77.1728 72.5562 (aka Sony GDM-1961) * The VR320 manual states that the monitor can operate at either 66 or 72 Hz, and is preset to match the machine prior to shipping. The manual also says to contact DEC Customer Service (yeah, right) if a change is needed. If DEC set it to 66 Hz they stamped 'CA' after 'VR320-' on the ID tag, if set to 72 Hz they stamped 'DA'. DEC set it to 66 or 72 Hz using a slide switch that is inside the monitor. The switch is clearly marked 66 & 72 Hz, just set it to the desired position. ** The VRT19-HA will operate at either 66 or 72 Hz vertical refresh. VR290 - 19" Color - See VR299 VR297 - 16" Color - See VR299 VR319-CA - 19" Mono - See VR320-CA VR319-DA - 19" Mono - See VR320-DA VRT16-DA - 16" Color - See VRT19-DA VRT16-HA - 16" Color - See VRT19-HA The monitors with a suffix (CA, DA, & HA) are considered Northern Hemisphere versions. For the down-under folks the suffixes are C4, D3, D4, & H4 instead. --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- VRT19 - 1280 x 1024 VRT19-DA VRT19-HA Pixel Clock: 119.843 Mhz 130.825 Mhz * Pixel Period: 8.344 ns * 7.643 ns * Horizonital Pixels Horiz Freq: 70.7 Khz 77.1728 Khz Horizontal Period: 14.1441 us * 1696 12.9656 us Active Video: 10.68 us 1280 9.7853 us Blanking Interval: 3.465 us 416 3.1802 us Front Porch: 258 ns 32 244.6 ns Sync Pulse: 1335 ns 160 1223.2 ns Back Porch: 1873 ns 224 1712.4 ns Vertical Lines Vert Freq: 66.5 Hz 72.5562 Hz Vertical Period: 15.035 ms 1063 13.7824 ms Active Video: 14.485 ms 1024 13.2768 ms Blanking Interval: 551.62 us * 39 505.6584 us * Front Porch: 42.432 us * 3 38.8968 us * Sync Pulse: 42.432 us * 3 38.8968 us * Back Porch: 466.7553 us * 33 427.8648 us * * These values were calculated as they are not list in the manuals. --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- VR320 - 1280 x 1024 The specs for the VR320 are only slightly different than those for the VRT19, and most of that appears to be rounding differences. Since have the manual, thought would include it here for completeness. VR320-CA VRT320-DA Pixel Clock: 119.84 Mhz 130.81 Mhz Pixel Period: 8.34 ns 7.64 ns Horizonital Pixels Horiz Freq: 70.66 Khz 77.13 Khz Horizontal Period: 14.15 us 1696 12.97 us Active Video: 10.68 us 1280 9.79 us Blanking Interval: 3.47 us 416 3.18 us Front Porch: 267 ns 32 245 ns Sync Pulse: 1340 ns 160 1220 ns Back Porch: 1870 ns 224 171 ns Vertical Lines Vert Freq: 66.47 Hz 72.56 Hz Vertical Period: 15.035 ms 1063 13.7824 ms Active Video: 14.49 ms 1024 13.28 ms Blanking Interval: 552 us 39 506 us Front Porch: 42.46 us 3 38.89 us Sync Pulse: 42.46 us 3 38.89 us Back Porch: 467 us 33 427.9 us --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- VR299 - 1024 x 864 Pixel Clock: 70 Mhz Pixel Period: 14.45 ns Horizonital Pixels Horiz Freq: 54.054 Khz Horizontal Period: 18.50 us 1280 * Active Video: 14.8 us 1024 Blanking Interval: 3.70 us 256 * Front Porch: 160 ns 12 * Sync Pulse: 1850 ns 128 * Back Porch: 1680 ns 116 * Vertical Lines Vert Freq: 60 Hz Vertical Period: 16.667 ms 901 Active Video: 16.0 ms 864 Blanking Interval: 684.5 us * 37 Front Porch: 0 us 0 Sync Pulse: 55.5 us * 3 Back Porch: 629 us * 34 * * These values were calculated as they are not list in the manuals. --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- Display Options In the DEC world, certain monitors only work with certain equipment, for example the VR299 works with the DECstation 2100/3100. Then there is the TURBOchannel graphics cards as found in the DECstation 5000 series as well as other machines. This is an attempt to list what monitors work with which graphic cards. For simplicity's sake, the monitors can be placed in one of three categories, and that is by the vertical scan frequency. The monitors are of one of the following vertical frequencies: 60, 66 or 72 Hz. Of course there are those monitors (ex: VRT19-HA) that will work at both 66 and 72 Hz. The following table lists the graphics card model, its vertical output, and a description of that graphics card. Model Freq Description -------- ---- ----------- PMAG-AA 72 Monochrome frame buffer PMAG-B 60 PMAG-C 66 2D graphics accelerator PMAG-CA 66 2D graphics accelerator PMAG-D 66 PMAG-DA 66 Low 3D graphics accelerator PMAG-DC 66 Low 3D graphics plus PMAG-E 66 PMAG-EA 66 Mid 3D graphics accelerator PMAG-F 66 PMAG-FA 66 High 3D graphics accelerator PMAG-JA 66 True color frame buffer PMAGB-A 60 PMAGB-B 66 PMAGB-BA 66 Smart frame buffer PMAGB-BC 72 Smart frame buffer PMAGB-BE 72 Smart frame buffer PMAGB-DA 72 Low 3D graphics accelerator PMAGB-EA 72 Mid 3D graphics accelerator PMAGB-FA 72 High 3D graphics accelerator PMAGB-JA 72 True color frame buffer --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- --------------- From azog at azog.org Tue Dec 5 19:11:16 2000 From: azog at azog.org (Billy D'Augustine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: VAX 6310 in Piscataway NJ Message-ID: <000b01c05f21$6f154bc0$2001a8c0@azog.org> I'm not affiliated with this guy at all, but found this interesting: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1200276177 A complete 6310 with SA600 and other odds & ends, starting bid at $500. I'd bid on it myself, but I'm not sure where I'll be living in the next month. Which is too bad, because Piscataway is "just down the road" from me. From ncherry at home.net Tue Dec 5 19:50:10 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: TS1000 gets $800 composite monitor References: <200012051518.HAA08154@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3A2D9B52.AEE84DD5@home.net> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Composite input works fine thanks to the mod Glen put in the TS1000 (tip of > the hat :-). No sound, of course. What mod might that be, inquiring mind want to know ... :-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From optimus at canit.se Tue Dec 5 19:42:20 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: Fwd: TX State Surplus Macs Must Be Saved! (fwd) Message-ID: <169.375T1000T1624805optimus@canit.se> A forward from the Compact Macs list. Of interest to y'all kauboois doun dere. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "I am *different* from all of you because I am a *ningen*!!" -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: "b.b." Subject: Fwd: TX State Surplus Macs Must Be Saved! Date: 5 Dec 2000 20:21:57 GMT Size: 5267 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001206/183f958e/attachment.mht From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 5 19:52:51 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: More strange finds References: <002601c059bd$a7d5edc0$a2769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <000e01c05f27$3faab810$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Well digging deeper in the boxes yield a few old MiniScribe's, a full height 5.25 floppy, the drive belts still there, a few half-high drives with strobe marking on the fly-wheel for 50 and 60 Hz. In a box of cards I find a Tandy memory expansion card, a apple 128K RAM expansion card and a full length card s/n 139 which looks hand written, the back of the card has pins and they are wired together. From ncherry at home.net Tue Dec 5 19:57:51 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: VAX 6310 in Piscataway NJ References: <000b01c05f21$6f154bc0$2001a8c0@azog.org> Message-ID: <3A2D9D1F.BFCD0700@home.net> Billy D'Augustine wrote: > > I'm not affiliated with this guy at all, but found this interesting: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1200276177 > > A complete 6310 with SA600 and other odds & ends, starting bid at $500. I'd > bid on it myself, but I'm not sure where I'll be living in the next month. > Which is too bad, because Piscataway is "just down the road" from me. If I were to bid on that, I'd be in the same boat (hopefully with you it's a choice and not a severe problem). I, too, am just around the corner. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Tue Dec 5 20:14:00 2000 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: old floppy drives In-Reply-To: <009201c05f1d$c8775d10$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001205181400.007ca410@yellow.ucdavis.edu> The 720 has one sensor near the door at the left side, which is for the write protect. The 1.44 has the write protect sensor on the left and a 1.44 sensor on the right. Note how 1.44 disks have a rectangular hole on the right side of the label, but not 720 disks. 1.2 versus 360... duh, I don't know, besides trying it on a PC. If you get a seek error for tracks >39, then probably 360k, but don't quote me on that. Ever thought of making a RAID floppy subsystem? ;) Regards, Edwin At 07:45 PM 12/5/2000 -0500, you wrote: >How do I tell a 1.2 meg drive from a 360 drive, >and the 720 from the 1.44? > >I have 2 boxes of drives that came with the terminals > > From whdawson at mlynk.com Tue Dec 5 20:20:06 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: DEC LK201AA keyboard available cheap Message-ID: <000401c05f2b$0c999c80$209f72d1@cobweb.net> DEC LK201AA Keyboard available cheap. I found it at the local Goodwill, where it still is. Nice condition, all keycaps present. Price is $3.25. If anyone is interested, LMK and I'll pick it up. Shipping at actual cost, UPS or USPS. Bill From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Dec 5 20:27:38 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: Great Find Message-ID: <013b01c05f2c$1b1f26c0$fb731fd1@default> This weekend I picked up a LOGI-TRAN FOUR a logic education system by Fabri-Tek. It was in the box it was shipped but the manual(s) was missing. It does power on but that's about all I have done with it. If anyone has spec's on this email me. John Keys From whdawson at mlynk.com Tue Dec 5 20:26:44 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <20001205.112721.-518929.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <000501c05f2b$fa0c0ca0$209f72d1@cobweb.net> -> > -> Yes-- The KALOK Octagon-20. The absolute worst -> > -> MFM drive (and perhaps the worst rotating memory of -> > -> *any* sort) ever manufactured. -> > -> > I think they are great storage devices. I use the cover -> from one on -> > my workbench to hold all the fasteners, etc. from whatever -> I happen to -> > be currently working on. I guess you could call this one -> a HEX-A-GONE -> > now. -> -> Don't you mean OCT-A-GONE? :^) No I meant HEX-A-GONE. But I guess it would depend on the computer it was in last. I haven't had an occasion where I needed to use octal on a PeeCee, just hex. d8^) Bill From gibbsjj at u.washington.edu Tue Dec 5 20:49:32 2000 From: gibbsjj at u.washington.edu (Josh Gibbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? References: <007a01c18de6$7bccd320$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> <3.0.1.16.20001204185210.3aef031c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <002901c05f2f$292ab420$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> I would be happy to scan the Osborne docs and make them available on the web (and return them promptly!). The only question is, what format should they be in? ASCII seems to be the logical choice, but of course you loose all the diagrams. PDF would be nice (and make the scanning much easier), but how portable is PDF? Also, file sizes tend to get big with PDFs. Suggestions on the format? Josh ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe" To: Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 3:52 PM Subject: Re: Source for Osborne documentation? > At 09:27 AM 12/4/00 -0800, you wrote: > >On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Josh Gibbs wrote: > > > >> I am looking for the original Osborne 1 and Osborne Executive > >> documentation... any suggestions? A copy would be fine. A scanned copy > >> would be even better. Is there an online archive of scanned documentation > >> somewhere? Thanks. > > I have a lot of Osborne docs but I don't have the time to scan them. I > will loan them out if someone can scan them and put the file on the net AND > they will return the manuals promptly and in good condition. I'm still > trying to get back my NEC MultiSpeed manuals that I loaned to one of the > list members OVER two years ago! > > Joe > > From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 5 20:55:50 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? References: <002901c05d64$c7715520$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <002e01c05f30$0bcff1a0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> OK I connected all the pieces and fired it up, I get a nice clear grey screen then a testing system message appears and stays there. Does the CD-ROM need a caddy or it the slot in the front for a optical drive? From ryan at hack.net Tue Dec 5 21:14:23 2000 From: ryan at hack.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? References: <002901c05d64$c7715520$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> <002e01c05f30$0bcff1a0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <011601c05f32$a24b20d0$24bcfacf@r> The slot in the front is an MO drive, either you need to have a MO with the OS, or a SCSI drive (or cd) with the OS on the chain. Alternatively, you could install a *bsd on it, Ryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Kenzie" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 8:55 PM Subject: NEXTcube, now what? > OK I connected all the pieces and fired it up, I get a nice > clear grey screen then a testing system message appears and > stays there. > > Does the CD-ROM need a caddy or it the slot in the front for > a optical drive? > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 5 22:39:35 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: <002901c05f2f$292ab420$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> References: <007a01c18de6$7bccd320$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> <3.0.1.16.20001204185210.3aef031c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001205233935.46373398@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 06:49 PM 12/5/00 -0800, Josh wrote: >I would be happy to scan the Osborne docs and make them available on the web >(and return them promptly!). The only question is, what format should they >be in? ASCII seems to be the logical choice, but of course you loose all >the diagrams. PDF would be nice (and make the scanning much easier), but >how portable is PDF? Also, file sizes tend to get big with PDFs. >Suggestions on the format? You're right about ASCII being nice. It's a readable on a lot more systems than PDF is and the files are smaller too. But as you say, it's more work and you lose the diagrams. The best solution would be to post both but that's even more work and requires storage space. I don't think webspace will be a problem. Jay West has offered free and unlimited webspace on his server for anyone to post their classic computer related pages. I intent to move my stuff over there when I have time. I can put the Osborne docs on my relocated website if necesssary. I'll put together a list of the Osborne docs that I have. I'll try to do it tomorrow. Joe > >Josh >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Joe" >To: >Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 3:52 PM >Subject: Re: Source for Osborne documentation? > > >> At 09:27 AM 12/4/00 -0800, you wrote: >> >On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Josh Gibbs wrote: >> > >> >> I am looking for the original Osborne 1 and Osborne Executive >> >> documentation... any suggestions? A copy would be fine. A scanned >copy >> >> would be even better. Is there an online archive of scanned >documentation >> >> somewhere? Thanks. >> >> I have a lot of Osborne docs but I don't have the time to scan them. I >> will loan them out if someone can scan them and put the file on the net >AND >> they will return the manuals promptly and in good condition. I'm still >> trying to get back my NEC MultiSpeed manuals that I loaned to one of the >> list members OVER two years ago! >> >> Joe >> >> > > From vaxman at uswest.net Tue Dec 5 21:38:46 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Until you use a really crappy CDRW drive... The creative 4224 is the worst junk I have ever had the misfortune of using... It makes these lovely cracking sounds whenever I put a disk in with the slightest bit of dust... Grrr.... I'm planning on using the drive and the stack of useless CDR media it destroyed for target practice REAL SOON NOW! The Sony Spressa drives are quite nice however :) clint On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > >In fact, these are absolutely the crappiest storage devices I have ever seen > >used on any computer. > > > >Any challengers for worst storage device? > > I learned to hate the cassette interface on the AIM65 over time pretty > intensely. > > Without the early suffering I think you can't fully appreciate how > wonderfull a CDR or CDRW is. > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 5 21:50:02 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: 2.88 mb floppy drives In-Reply-To: <000501c05f2b$fa0c0ca0$209f72d1@cobweb.net> References: <20001205.112721.-518929.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: For no real sane reason I have the itch to put a 2.88 MB floppy drive in my next otherwise fairly normal PC. Seems like the world is littered with 2.88 drives for the old PS/2, but I see nothing that works with a normal PC floppy connection (although most if not all motherboards do support 2.88 and/or LS120). Any tips on finding a PC 2.88? Do they really need the ED media? From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Dec 5 21:59:12 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: from "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" at Dec 05, 2000 08:38:46 PM Message-ID: <200012060359.UAA31050@calico.litterbox.com> > > >Any challengers for worst storage device? Yes. The Commodore 64 1515(I think) tape drive. It was: unreliable. slow. expensive. and tapes for it were $1 to $2 US for a 15 minute data grade tape. I have no idea how many times I put a tape in one of these damn things and spent 15 minutes loading to have it gag on the last few bytes and dump the entire program from memory. They worked best if you put them on the floor away from the monitor and the computer. (there was some speculation that this is why they provided a 6 foot cable on it). This tape drive was SO bad it made the 1541 disk drive seem speedy and reliable. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From Glenatacme at aol.com Tue Dec 5 22:06:30 2000 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: TS1000 gets $800 composite monitor Message-ID: In a message dated 12/05/2000 9:00:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, ncherry@home.net writes: > > Composite input works fine thanks to the mod Glen put in the TS1000 (tip of > > the hat :-). No sound, of course. > > What mod might that be, inquiring mind want to know ... :-) It's very complicated, involving a 75 ohm resistor, an inline female RCA jack, and a 2N3904 or anything close ;>) Ten minutes with a screwdriver and a soldering iron and you have a rock-solid display. E-mail me off-list for details. Glen 0/0 From Glenatacme at aol.com Tue Dec 5 22:06:28 2000 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: Unusual uses for ZX81/TS1000 (was: TS1000 gets $800 composite monitor) Message-ID: In a message dated 12/05/2000 10:16:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu writes: > have found a new use for my Power Mac G3: as a composite monitor for my > Timex Sinclair 1000. Now that's quality! :-P Well, even Apple equipment has some real-world functionality ;>) > Composite input works fine thanks to the mod Glen put in the TS1000 (tip of > the hat :-). Thanks! -- and glad to hear you're up and running. The standard RF modulator included with the ZX81/TS1000 is so bad that I had to do something. Lots of folks dismissed this machine just because of the eye-bleeder display, but for fifty cents in parts and a TV or monitor with composite input (plus a decent keyboard) the thing is actually useable for basic applications. I've used mine for company payroll, inventory, order tracking, etc. The ability to load programs at 4800 baud (as opposed to the native 300 baud) also increases the useability of the machine. Currently I have one set up in the shop as a "system configurator," where people custom-build a system by selecting the parts they want included, then they print out the results and hand them to me. Customers really like the "one-finger" keyboard commands and never notice the monochrome display . . . I recently spoke with a guy at NASA who uses ZX81s for robotics projects, so I guess there must be others out there who use these critters for something. Is anyone else still using a ZX81/TS1000 on a regular basis? And if so, for what? Glen 0/0 From Glenatacme at aol.com Tue Dec 5 22:06:25 2000 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: In a message dated 12/05/2000 1:32:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > > Any challengers for worst storage device? > > How about writing down a program listing from the screen (that's writing > it down with pen and paper) and later retyping it into the machine. On a > Timex-Sinclair (ZX81 or whatever) keyboard, of course. Aw, come on Tony -- you mean your ZX81 doesn't have a printer? You can get one at any car boot for a couple of pounds, you know ;>) Of course, you still have to type it back in, unless you splurge and buy a cassette recorder . . . Glen 0/0 From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Dec 5 17:36:01 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20001206052923.ZLUG29141.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebox> In , on 12/05/00 at 06:36 PM, Mike Ford said: >>In fact, these are absolutely the crappiest storage devices I have ever seen >>used on any computer. >> >>Any challengers for worst storage device? My experience with moving head and moving media technology has not been a happy one. Disks are inherently unreliable due to thier moving media and moving heads. Tape too. In many cases, tape heads and media also move. Disk/tape technology is going to give way to some solid-state system in the not too distant future. As to unreliable drives: The Atari Cassette drive was never any good. The Rana 1000 disk drive had no track 0 sensor so literally knocked it'self out of alignment. The Percom AT8 series drives weren't compatible with themselves. The SWP ATR8000 series computers had the same problem Percoms did.... The Atari XF551 would break if you plugged it in. Those 40mb Xebec drives that WD bought out and added a IDE interface to were horrible. Miniscribe 3650 The Seagate ST125,138, and 157A were horrible. Buy 10 return 11. In fact, any seagate made after the ol' 200 series are aweful. That is until they bought Conner out and things began to improve. I can't say that the Prairytek drives stacked up very well. Toshiba 2.5" ide hard disk mechs. BEWARE! I told you so. Microscience low-end drives were bad too. Whatever name of the hard disk maker that bought Atari was. Thier drives aren't too great, but better than Seagates of the time. There are lots of bad drive makers out there to chose from. How about a vote on the BEST disk drives ever? I'd vote: Bulletproof drives: The Atari 810, 1050, and any modified version Seagate St225,251, and 4096 interface version notwithstanding Teac floppy mechanisms - just great mechs CDC/Imprimis hard disks Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 6 00:07:50 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:27 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001205233935.46373398@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > At 06:49 PM 12/5/00 -0800, Josh wrote: > >I would be happy to scan the Osborne docs and make them available on the web > >(and return them promptly!). The only question is, what format should they > >be in? ASCII seems to be the logical choice, but of course you loose all > >the diagrams. PDF would be nice (and make the scanning much easier), but > >how portable is PDF? Also, file sizes tend to get big with PDFs. > >Suggestions on the format? > > > You're right about ASCII being nice. It's a readable on a lot more > systems than PDF is and the files are smaller too. But as you say, it's > more work and you lose the diagrams. The best solution would be to post > both but that's even more work and requires storage space. I would suggest that PDF is the better format. The downloader can send the PDF file to pdf2text@adobe.com or pdf2html@adobe.com and have it back in ascii form in about a minute or two. Rather remarkable service! - don > I don't think webspace will be a problem. Jay West has offered free and > unlimited webspace on his server for anyone to post their classic computer > related pages. I intent to move my stuff over there when I have time. I can > put the Osborne docs on my relocated website if necesssary. > > I'll put together a list of the Osborne docs that I have. I'll try to do > it tomorrow. > > Joe > > > > > >Josh > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Joe" > >To: > >Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 3:52 PM > >Subject: Re: Source for Osborne documentation? > > > > > >> At 09:27 AM 12/4/00 -0800, you wrote: > >> >On Wed, 26 Dec 2001, Josh Gibbs wrote: > >> > > >> >> I am looking for the original Osborne 1 and Osborne Executive > >> >> documentation... any suggestions? A copy would be fine. A scanned > >copy > >> >> would be even better. Is there an online archive of scanned > >documentation > >> >> somewhere? Thanks. > >> > >> I have a lot of Osborne docs but I don't have the time to scan them. I > >> will loan them out if someone can scan them and put the file on the net > >AND > >> they will return the manuals promptly and in good condition. I'm still > >> trying to get back my NEC MultiSpeed manuals that I loaned to one of the > >> list members OVER two years ago! > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> > > > > > > From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 6 00:12:15 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <20001206052923.ZLUG29141.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebox> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 2000 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > In , on 12/05/00 > at 06:36 PM, Mike Ford said: > > >>In fact, these are absolutely the crappiest storage devices I have ever seen > >>used on any computer. > >> > >>Any challengers for worst storage device? > > > My experience with moving head and moving media technology has not been a > happy one. > > Disks are inherently unreliable due to thier moving media and moving > heads. Tape too. In many cases, tape heads and media also move. You are right, of course. You just cannot beat a chisel and a flat rock! - don > Disk/tape technology is going to give way to some solid-state system in > the not too distant future. > > As to unreliable drives: > > The Atari Cassette drive was never any good. > > The Rana 1000 disk drive had no track 0 sensor so literally knocked > it'self out of alignment. > > The Percom AT8 series drives weren't compatible with themselves. > > The SWP ATR8000 series computers had the same problem Percoms did.... > > The Atari XF551 would break if you plugged it in. > > Those 40mb Xebec drives that WD bought out and added a IDE interface to > were horrible. > > Miniscribe 3650 > > The Seagate ST125,138, and 157A were horrible. Buy 10 return 11. In fact, > any seagate made after the ol' 200 series are aweful. That is until they > bought Conner out and things began to improve. > > I can't say that the Prairytek drives stacked up very well. > > Toshiba 2.5" ide hard disk mechs. BEWARE! I told you so. > > Microscience low-end drives were bad too. > > Whatever name of the hard disk maker that bought Atari was. Thier drives > aren't too great, but better than Seagates of the time. > > There are lots of bad drive makers out there to chose from. > > How about a vote on the BEST disk drives ever? > > I'd vote: > > Bulletproof drives: > > The Atari 810, 1050, and any modified version > > Seagate St225,251, and 4096 interface version notwithstanding > > Teac floppy mechanisms - just great mechs > > CDC/Imprimis hard disks > > Regards, > > Jeff > > > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 6 00:15:46 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: old floppy drives In-Reply-To: <009201c05f1d$c8775d10$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Mike Kenzie wrote: > How do I tell a 1.2 meg drive from a 360 drive, Well, one way is to note the manufacturer and model number and look it up in THEREF43.ZIP which is found in many locations on the net. Alternatively, check theref.aquascape.com, but it was not available when I tried today. - don > and the 720 from the 1.44? > > I have 2 boxes of drives that came with the terminals > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 6 00:53:18 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: TS1000 gets $800 composite monitor In-Reply-To: <200012052119.NAA10222@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from Cameron Kaiser at "Dec 5, 0 01:19:32 pm" Message-ID: <200012060653.WAA11942@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Figured it out -- the tuner card wants a *real* 300 ohm antenna, not a 75 ohm->300 ohm converter. A new switchbox with a real 300 ohm output did the trick. Incidentally, it only works on channel 4. Channel 3 doesn't work for anything but ths TS1000 -- the Tomy and the Commodore both show up garbled on 3. Weird. Thanks to those who replied -- you will be the first to suffer the Commodore home movies. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Humor is a drug which it's the fashion to abuse. -- William Gilbert -------- From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Dec 6 00:56:15 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: Greetings! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.20001015013531.0096dba0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001205225615.0097dc00@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 10:20 15-10-2000 -0700, you wrote: >> I can write you a boot/install tape for 1.4.2. The boot.fs >> for the 1.5 >> Alpha releases isn't out yet. I just need a mailing address. > >Thanks Bruce! >My address is: Gene, FYI... sorry for the lengthy delay. I've not forgotten about you, it's just that school has been a royal mother this quarter. Winter break begins on Dec. 15th or so, and I'm planning to catch up on a whole bunch of projects after that point. Your boot tape is one of them. ;-) Please bear with. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 6 07:10:05 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20001205233935.46373398@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001206081005.3b4fca1a@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:07 PM 12/5/00 -0800, Don wrote: > > >On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > >> At 06:49 PM 12/5/00 -0800, Josh wrote: >> >I would be happy to scan the Osborne docs and make them available on the web >> >(and return them promptly!). The only question is, what format should they >> >be in? ASCII seems to be the logical choice, but of course you loose all >> >the diagrams. PDF would be nice (and make the scanning much easier), but >> >how portable is PDF? Also, file sizes tend to get big with PDFs. >> >Suggestions on the format? >> >> >> You're right about ASCII being nice. It's a readable on a lot more >> systems than PDF is and the files are smaller too. But as you say, it's >> more work and you lose the diagrams. The best solution would be to post >> both but that's even more work and requires storage space. > >I would suggest that PDF is the better format. The downloader can send >the PDF file to pdf2text@adobe.com or pdf2html@adobe.com and have it >back in ascii form in about a minute or two. Rather remarkable service! > > I wasn't aware of that. Do they charge for that? Joe From russ at rbcs.8m.com Wed Dec 6 06:54:03 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: 2.88 mb floppy drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I have a few 2.88's that came from old NCR 486 microchannel machines - not sure if they need the defacto standard ribbon and power or the PS/2 style ribbon only with power through the cable. I'll dig one out and see. They're kind of a green tan or olive-ish color on the face if memory serves me. They all worked before I ripped the boat anchors apart for scrap. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 9:50 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: 2.88 mb floppy drives For no real sane reason I have the itch to put a 2.88 MB floppy drive in my next otherwise fairly normal PC. Seems like the world is littered with 2.88 drives for the old PS/2, but I see nothing that works with a normal PC floppy connection (although most if not all motherboards do support 2.88 and/or LS120). Any tips on finding a PC 2.88? Do they really need the ED media? From russ at rbcs.8m.com Wed Dec 6 06:55:11 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: old floppy drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If anyone has a Pocket PC Ref there are a lot of floppy drives listed there as well. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Don Maslin Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 12:16 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: old floppy drives On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Mike Kenzie wrote: > How do I tell a 1.2 meg drive from a 360 drive, Well, one way is to note the manufacturer and model number and look it up in THEREF43.ZIP which is found in many locations on the net. Alternatively, check theref.aquascape.com, but it was not available when I tried today. - don > and the 720 from the 1.44? > > I have 2 boxes of drives that came with the terminals > > From wrm at ccii.co.za Wed Dec 6 12:36:30 2000 From: wrm at ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: MCS-80 System Design Kit Message-ID: <200012061836.QAA14780@ccii.co.za> Hi all > Does anyone out there have the parts list for a >"MCS-80 System Design Kit"? I have the docs somewhere -- I can try to find it & either copy and scan it, but please kick me once a week or so or I'll forget. Picture at http://www.retro.co.za/ccc/index.html Seeya W From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Wed Dec 6 08:53:26 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: Use for a 3270 terminal In-Reply-To: <009101c05f1d$c5507a90$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <000501c05f94$4a9dada0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> > Can a 3270 terminal be used as a monitor? Some of us would rather that the 3270 be used as a 3270. Where is it located? You culd sell it, to me if its not too far. John A. From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Dec 6 08:57:19 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: Greetings! In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001205225615.0097dc00@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: > Gene, FYI... sorry for the lengthy delay. I've not forgotten about you, > it's just that school has been a royal mother this quarter. Winter break > begins on Dec. 15th or so, and I'm planning to catch up on a whole bunch of > projects after that point. Your boot tape is one of them. ;-) > That's ok. I've been up to my neck in the F-15 anyway. :) g. From optimus at canit.se Tue Dec 5 20:55:17 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1102.375T850T2354291optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >>Any challengers for worst storage device? >I learned to hate the cassette interface on the AIM65 over time pretty >intensely. >Without the early suffering I think you can't fully appreciate how >wonderfull a CDR or CDRW is. Actually, I think CD-ROM deserves a nomination. It's an optical floppy /without/ any protection from outside forces whatsoever. It's actually quite horrible. It's also a read-only memory. Granted, there are burners trickling down the market now, ten years after the introduction of the medium, but to write anything to a CD, you have to go through an intricate mastering process. At least cassettes usually had a simple user interface. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. When cherry tree blooms, people go and walk there, eat dumpling, bring sake and talk each other such things as "A superb view!" and "Full of spring here", and they become very happily and cheerful. But this is a lie. People gather below cherry trees and get drunk, vomit, fight, which are happening since the old days of Edo period. From long time ago. THE FULL OF CHERRY BOOLMS, CHAPTER 1 From dogas at bellsouth.net Wed Dec 6 09:12:56 2000 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: new finds and... Atari 810/1050 help References: <009c01c05edd$86f60f70$a7794ed8@DOMAIN> <009301c05ee3$79926bc0$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <01a701c05f97$076035a0$67784ed8@DOMAIN> From: Mark Gregory > Mike, nice find! yup, I'm fighting the urge to paint racing stripes down the side of it... >Which also illustrates the first rule of thrift shopping: > Before passing up anything, always open the case! You never know what rare > and desirable stuff lurks inside that battered and forlorn looking Apple II > / Atari 800 / Coleco ADAM / etc. Any collector worth his or her salt should > never go on an expedition without a pocket tool containing an assortment of > screw and socket drivers. Good point. And one can also gauge how deeply (insane) emersed in collecting these things they are by the size/complexity of those pocket tool(s) carried along. ;) > > Anyway, I think I have an Atari disk drive service manual at home. I'll > check tonight and get back to you. Great, thanks! Cheers - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Dec 6 09:38:49 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <1102.375T850T2354291optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> At 03:55 AM 12/6/00 +0100, Iggy Drougge wrote: >Actually, I think CD-ROM deserves a nomination. It's an optical floppy >/without/ any protection from outside forces whatsoever. It's actually quite >horrible. I've wondered about that. Considering the inevitable decay of aluminum CDs as well as now nearly-free CD-R media, will there be a demand for very smart readers in the future that might be able to rescue otherwise unreadable data? - John From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Dec 6 09:43:21 2000 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: <20001206.094321.-324561.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Tue, 05 Dec 2000 18:36:01 -0500 THETechnoid@home.com writes: > How about a vote on the BEST disk drives ever? > > I'd vote: > > Bulletproof drives: > > The Atari 810, 1050, and any modified version > > Seagate St225,251, and 4096 interface version notwithstanding Hmmm, you've obviously never experienced *stiction*! > Teac floppy mechanisms - just great mechs Well you know, these were originally National/Matsushita/Panasonic drives; whatever the labeling, they (almost) never break! I have a pair of JA-455's I bought in 1986, and they *still* work. > CDC/Imprimis hard disks You gotta love these, but I always felt that the earlier Fujitsu drives (8" & 5.25") just reeked of *quality*. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 6 12:03:45 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: MCS-80 System Design Kit In-Reply-To: <200012061836.QAA14780@ccii.co.za> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001206130345.297fba4a@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:36 PM 12/6/00 -0200, you wrote: >Hi all > >> Does anyone out there have the parts list for a >>"MCS-80 System Design Kit"? > >I have the docs somewhere -- I can try to find it & either copy >and scan it, but please kick me once a week or so or I'll forget. > >Picture at http://www.retro.co.za/ccc/index.html > >Seeya > >W > I don't know what's wrong but I couldn't load your web page. I tried several variaions on the address but nothing worked. Joe > From pat at transarc.ibm.com Wed Dec 6 11:22:56 2000 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 1 resurrection Message-ID: Well, I finally got around from getting my old TRS-80 out of my mom's house this past weekend, and brought it home. The good news is that all the pieces were actually there - the CPU, monitor, cassette recorder (no disks on this machine....), and power supply, as well as a bunch of software (including some I wrote myself, that I'd be really interested in getting to see again). The bad news, is that it's spent the last 15 years in a really poor environment - tons of dust, temperatures fluctuating seasonally between mid-high 90's and below freezing, and completely uncontrolled humidity (enough that the heads of the screws that secure the CPU case have become rusty). The software cassettes, fortunately, were stored in a more controlled envrionment. I dare not even power it on yet, due to all the dust inside the case. I know I'm going to have to open up the CPU and monitor cases and blow all the dust out, and I'll need to clean cassette heads. Aside from that, are there any other things I should do before I try to turn the machine on? Any guesses as to how likely it is that the machine has survived at all? Thanks, --Pat. From kebabthesheep at yahoo.com Wed Dec 6 11:39:12 2000 From: kebabthesheep at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?kebabthesheep?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: RML380Z and exploding sun psus [long and boring] Message-ID: <20001206173912.15248.qmail@web1605.mail.yahoo.com> Well, it cetainly has been an interesting weekend. Massie and I bimbled on over to chez Honniball, and cleaned him of house and home :) The sun 3/470 and 4/370 *just* went in the car, and the boot filled with sparcs. Muchos gracious! Build up the 3/470, dropped in my spare scsi controller, and off we went. Booted sunos4.1.1.sun3x just fine, but I got bored and didn't install it. For some reason or other I put a card in the slot next to the psu, so in order to get it out again - to diagnose the vme interrupt errors - I had to pull the psu. So all cards except cpu, memory and scsi out, psu back in. All checked for seating, and screwed down. Power up. **BANG** Psu blows its guts out :( Now I've never experienced a big psu blowing, and I don't want to again - 1300W of psu makes a big mess :( It looks as if a capacitor failed, and took out some semiconductors. Much ceramic shrapnel now being distributed throughout :-/ I took the whole machine apart, and checked all electronics over with a magnifying glass. I couldn't find a burnt connector, overheated track or any visible form of damage. SO I just reassembled with the psu out of the 4/370. Works now :) Capacitors are starting to become my least favourite electronic component (what after realising i've over 7 sun slc/elcs to repair due to cap failure) Ah well. The backplane on the 3/470 is a bit wierd tho - neither scsi controller works today - which is odd. Yet both function in my 3/140, even the one John said was broken! Anybody got any docs on the 3/4xx backplane configuration? Anybody got a spare? Anybody seen one with some solder on it - with components attatched by more than a press fit into the plated-holes? I'm confused :-? OH - the RML380Z now works fine with it's replacement low-density controller :) Both drives light up, make noise and try to do things, so I'm a happy bunny :) I'd still like to get the high density controller going sometime - but a least now i'm one step closer to booting cp/m. Dave. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 6 11:38:26 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <01a701c05f97$076035a0$67784ed8@DOMAIN> References: <009c01c05edd$86f60f70$a7794ed8@DOMAIN> <009301c05ee3$79926bc0$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: >Good point. And one can also gauge how deeply (insane) emersed in >collecting these things they are by the size/complexity of those pocket >tool(s) carried along. ;) I have a two ended screwdriver, blade and phillips, clipped in my shirt pocket with 2 pens, and a small notepad (thank you real estate ladies of the world), and have a Gerber LST pocketknife in a pants pocket. This is my daily rig I always have. For serious scrounging I have a plastic tub with a lid just large enough to hold a legal size pad in the bottom. In that I have "real" screwdrivers, gloves (leather work gloves and rubber no yuck disposable gloves), nut drivers in a few critical smaller sizes, a big adjustable wrench, diagonal cutter, sometimes a cordless drill, a few static bags, some tie wraps, etc. Plus of course a few "fishing" tools, ie old RS232 cables for fishing in dumpsters. Tool that I yearn for; Cresent tiny slip joint pliers, the really small one maybe 5 inches long. Optional longing for Leatherman or Gerber pocket tools. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 6 11:23:09 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <1102.375T850T2354291optimus@canit.se> References: Message-ID: >Actually, I think CD-ROM deserves a nomination. It's an optical floppy >/without/ any protection from outside forces whatsoever. It's actually quite >horrible. It's also a read-only memory. Granted, there are burners trickling >down the market now, ten years after the introduction of the medium, but to >write anything to a CD, you have to go through an intricate mastering process. >At least cassettes usually had a simple user interface. Sniff, its always sad to hear about life in non mac places. With the Mac and even my OLD Sony I could drag and drop files just like with a floppy, except of course files like music tracks from other CDs are automatically accomodated. The burn command is explicit as it must be, but the rest is fairly transparent using Toast. Creating a production master of an audio CD from raw sound files is a bit more complicated, but just about anything else could have all the instructions on a single sheet of paper. Robust 650 MB of storage on media cheap as floppies, I need more punishment like that. From red at bears.org Wed Dec 6 11:54:06 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <20001206052923.ZLUG29141.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebox> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 2000 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > Miniscribe 3650 I think I had one of these. 3.5" HH 40 MB MFM disk? ca. 60ms seek times? Loudest drive I've ever heard. How about the Exabyte 8200? Famous for forgetting they had tapes in them and refusing to eject. Not only that, but it was commonly referred to as the 'write once, read never' backup media. We won't talk about the TK50. I will, however, nominate any hard disk Micropolis made which was in a smaller form factor than 5.25" FH. Garbage. Oh, and the Seagate Barracudas. Ran so fast they burned themselves up. At one point we had a 50% DOA rate on these drives. The remaining ones usually fried inside of 30 days. We never did figure out how Seagate managed to come up with their 500k-hour MTBF on these disks. The Hawks were nearly as bad. The ST51080N, though.. super-nice. Small, cool, quiet, reasonably quick. Where did that one come from? A diamond amongst dung. That drive was physically unique in Seagate's lineup, as far as I could ever tell. It certainly wasn't for not having looked. > How about a vote on the BEST disk drives ever? The IBM UltraStar ES. > Bulletproof drives: > Seagate St225,251, and 4096 interface version notwithstanding Nah, I had a 4096N which had stiction. It took progressively stronger shocks to the chassis to get it to spin up, until finally I was beating it with a shoe. That situation ultimately ended in a head crash and data loss. r. From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Dec 6 12:02:35 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: Why is it that ... In-Reply-To: <636.371T2950T2316575optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 02 Dec 00 03:51:59 +0100 Iggy Drougge wrote: > John Honniball skrev: > >I have another machine, called a Stride, like that. I was > >told that Sage had to change their name -- don't know why > >-- and they changed it to Stride. The Stride is wider than > >the Sage II and has a hard disk. Some of the (ex-INMOS) > >machines had a QIC-02 tape interface and an internal > >quarter-inch tape drive. > > Ooh, I've been meaning to ask about that one. There is a Stride at the > usergroup. It's a big tower, grey of colour. Apparently it's 68000 based, but > what kind of system is it, and what OS does it run? If it's a tower-style case, it may be the bigger model of Stride with a proper MMU. I was told that they run Unix (BSD I think), but I've never actually seen one running. I have the parts of a tower-case machine at home, saved after someone converted it (with a hacksaw) into a PC case. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 6 10:28:24 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: <002901c05f2f$292ab420$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> Message-ID: <1030.375T1200T10484353optimus@canit.se> Josh Gibbs skrev: >I would be happy to scan the Osborne docs and make them available on the web >(and return them promptly!). The only question is, what format should they >be in? ASCII seems to be the logical choice, but of course you loose all >the diagrams. PDF would be nice (and make the scanning much easier), but >how portable is PDF? Also, file sizes tend to get big with PDFs. >Suggestions on the format? PDF is indeed very portable, though some purists might prefer plain postscript. My suggestion would be OCRed text, preferably with style markup intact, combined with scanned diagrammes, all combined as PDF files, which then wouldn't occupy that much space. PDFs only consisting of scanned pages out of an old manual aren't all that fun, though. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. A Spanish MSX Group "Matra" visited to this Fair. I lent Spanish stand to them. They showed and did Promotion play of SEX BOMB BUNNY. And this Game has tema song of Majingar-Z! Why they know Japanese TV animation? K. Ikeda, MSX-Print From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 6 10:42:46 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: TS1000 gets $800 composite monitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <835.375T2300T10625697optimus@canit.se> Glenatacme skrev: >In a message dated 12/05/2000 9:00:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, >ncherry@home.net writes: >> > Composite input works fine thanks to the mod Glen put in the TS1000 (tip >of >> > the hat :-). No sound, of course. >> >> What mod might that be, inquiring mind want to know ... :-) >It's very complicated, involving a 75 ohm resistor, an inline female RCA >jack, and a 2N3904 or anything close ;>) Ten minutes with a screwdriver and >a soldering iron and you have a rock-solid display. While we're on the subject of video mods, is there any way to get RGB out a C64 or C128? I find it amazing that Commodore never added that. Are these supposed to be computers or what? Even the Sega Master System had RGB! -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. If a listener nods his head when you're explaining your program, wake him up. From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Dec 6 12:14:51 2000 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: In a message dated 12/6/00 11:58:54 AM Central Standard Time, red@bears.org writes: > > Bulletproof drives: > > Seagate St225,251, and 4096 interface version notwithstanding > > bulletproof? hardly! those clunky drives seem to need a yearly LLF. I've had some that reformatted ok, only to have them post bad within six months. Even a functioning one in one of my IBM 5155s went bad although there were no indications of problems. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001206/4cba914d/attachment.html From rmeenaks at olf.com Wed Dec 6 12:21:54 2000 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: Software for the Inmos IMSB020 Transputer Graphics Board (aka BOZO Board) Message-ID: <3A2E83C2.50006@olf.com> Hi, I have been searching High and Low for the XServer software for the IMSB020 Transputer board (T425 + G335) and can not seem to find it anywhere. Does anyone have a copy or know where I can get it? I really really need it badly.... Ram From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 6 12:50:22 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: TS1000 gets $800 composite monitor In-Reply-To: <835.375T2300T10625697optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Dec 6, 0 06:33:26 pm" Message-ID: <200012061850.KAA11978@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > While we're on the subject of video mods, is there any way to get RGB out a > C64 or C128? > I find it amazing that Commodore never added that. Are these supposed to be > computers or what? Even the Sega Master System had RGB! Out of a 128? Yes, but only in VDC 80-column mode. The 9-pin DSUB in the back exports a signal that works just fine with most CGA and many EGA monitors, and if you are ridiculously lucky enough to have a multisync that can drop to a frequency that low, a select few VGA/SVGA monitors. Otherwise (for 40-column 128 mode and the 64), find something like AIM Labs' JAM!! box, which takes S-video, composite and just about everything else, and spits out VGA. Never used it myself, however. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This signature is free of dihydrogen monoxide! Ban it now! www.dhmo.org ---- From flo at rdel.co.uk Wed Dec 6 12:49:45 2000 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: RML380Z and exploding sun psus [long and boring] References: <20001206173912.15248.qmail@web1605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A2E8A49.1AA89F39@rdel.co.uk> kebabthesheep wrote: > > OH - the RML380Z now works fine with it's replacement low-density > controller :) Both drives light up, make noise and try to do things, > so I'm a happy bunny :) I'd still like to get the high density > controller going sometime - but a least now i'm one step closer to > booting cp/m. Have you got a CP/M disk yet, Dave, or is that the remaining step? I ask because I acquired a 380Z over the weekend, and I don't have disks or manuals either. In fact, I don't have any means of making a 5.25 disk. For the record, my 380Z contains: 1. VDU 80/02. 80-column text card. 2. CPU board, 32K RAM 3. RAM board, 32K 4. Graphics board, feeds four BNC sockets (RGB+sync) 5. I/O board for serial and floppy. PCB number 207-252. 6. Another graphics board? Contains PAL modulator, and also feeds another monitor socket. There seems to be a lack of PCB drawing numbers on these boards, so I'm not sure how to tie up this information with other descriptions posted previously. This machine seems to date from February 1983. Two 5.25 floppies, and COS 4.0B/M. Some large photos at http://vt100.net/rm/380z/ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 6 12:32:28 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: 2.88 mb floppy drives In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I have a few 2.88's that came from old NCR 486 microchannel machines - not >sure if they need the defacto standard ribbon and power or the PS/2 style >ribbon only with power through the cable. I'll dig one out and see. They're >kind of a green tan or olive-ish color on the face if memory serves me. They >all worked before I ripped the boat anchors apart for scrap. > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org >[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford >Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 9:50 PM >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: 2.88 mb floppy drives > > >For no real sane reason I have the itch to put a 2.88 MB floppy drive in my >next otherwise fairly normal PC. Seems like the world is littered with 2.88 >drives for the old PS/2, but I see nothing that works with a normal PC >floppy connection (although most if not all motherboards do support 2.88 >and/or LS120). Any tips on finding a PC 2.88? Do they really need the ED >media? My guess is that being MCA they are PS/2 types, but maybe not. Thanks for checking. BTW isn't it nice that a lot of new games are for the PS2. ;) Cheers, Mike Ford From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 6 13:07:29 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: References: <20001206052923.ZLUG29141.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebox> Message-ID: >> How about a vote on the BEST disk drives ever? > >The IBM UltraStar ES. IBM is making some VERY nice drives, really this whole generation of better drives (sorry Samsung) from IBM, Quantum, and even Maxtor and WD seem very good. Speaking of old drives, a Toshiba 5100A external CD showed up in a batch of stuff I bought yesterday. No idea yet if it works, same for a HP 1999A that was with it. From bills at adrenaline.com Wed Dec 6 13:42:19 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > maybe 5 inches long. Optional longing for Leatherman or Gerber > pocket tools. I have a SOG Micro Toolclip that I never go anywhere without. It has a very strong pliers, and 3 blades made of very durable steel. The blades are: 1) standard knife, 2) really useful saw, 3) flat head screwdriver with a crosshatched file surface on one side. Here's a web site with a picture: http://www.knifepro.com/sog/sog-28.htm From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Wed Dec 6 14:10:39 2000 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20001205233935.46373398@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001206121039.007cd3c0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> I have tried the pdf2text and pdf2html services for Adobe Acrobat PDF files. No registration needed, results are in the body of the e-mail. The only difference between the two is pdf2html lets one jump from page to page and there is bold and italics. Both are crappy at rendering a table - the columns don't line up in either fixed or proportional font. Neither of the services will return images or bitmaps found in the PDF. I would prefer PDF over HTML since the document layout remains the same on whatever computer views the PDF. Layout of HTML pages viewed in a browser changes, depending on make and version of the browser, and on the resolution of the display. For those without Adobe Acrobat, that text conversion service would leave them S.O.L. for the images, but doesn't everybody with internet access have a modern computer they can use to look at PDFs? Regards, Edwin At 10:07 PM 12/5/2000 -0800, you wrote: > > >I would suggest that PDF is the better format. The downloader can send >the PDF file to pdf2text@adobe.com or pdf2html@adobe.com and have it >back in ascii form in about a minute or two. Rather remarkable service! > > - don From lgwalker at look.ca Wed Dec 6 14:24:02 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <200012052110.NAA11208@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <0012051323210E.00284@Billbob_Linux> from Bill Layer at "Dec 5, 0 01:23:21 pm" Message-ID: <3A2E5A12.17447.4784BB@localhost> > > Hey I remember this... > > > > > Any disk drive without a track 0 sensor (Apple ][, Commodore, > > > etc). The heads bang themselves out of alignment with time. > > > > OPEN 15,8,15,"I0:NEWDISK,ND" > > True for 1541s, but not 1571s. 1571s do have a track 0 sensor. And a > v3.1 1571 is the best 5.25" drive out there, I submit -- with > appropriate software, a 1571 can read most MFM formats, plus Commodore > GCR, and runs very fast when connected to a 128 in 128 mode. > How does one identify the version of 1571 ? Could you expand on what you mean by appropriate software ? Are there other platforms it can be used on ? ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From ahm at spies.com Wed Dec 6 14:31:00 2000 From: ahm at spies.com (Andreas Meyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: ; from Mike Ford on Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 09:38:26AM -0800 References: <009c01c05edd$86f60f70$a7794ed8@DOMAIN> <009301c05ee3$79926bc0$0200a8c0@marvin> <01a701c05f97$076035a0$67784ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <20001206153100.C4098@spies.com> I always carry a Leatherman Micra; it's small, light and versatile. Mike Ford writes: > Plus of course a few "fishing" tools, ie old RS232 cables for fishing in > dumpsters. Okay, you'll need to explain that one to me. If there's an old cable that lets you drop one end into a dumpster, and latches onto a mating connector to help you pull equipment out, I want one too! :) Andy From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 6 13:57:46 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1326.375T2300T12575613optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >>Actually, I think CD-ROM deserves a nomination. It's an optical floppy >>/without/ any protection from outside forces whatsoever. It's actually quite >>horrible. It's also a read-only memory. Granted, there are burners trickling >>down the market now, ten years after the introduction of the medium, but to >>write anything to a CD, you have to go through an intricate mastering >>process. At least cassettes usually had a simple user interface. >Sniff, its always sad to hear about life in non mac places. With the Mac >and even my OLD Sony I could drag and drop files just like with a floppy, >except of course files like music tracks from other CDs are automatically >accomodated. The burn command is explicit as it must be, but the rest is >fairly transparent using Toast. Creating a production master of an audio CD >from raw sound files is a bit more complicated, but just about anything >else could have all the instructions on a single sheet of paper. Compare it to a floppy. There is a jungle of abstraction layers compared to a floppy. >Robust 650 MB of storage on media cheap as floppies, I need more punishment >like that. Robust? They're rather unwieldly, too, not the kind you'd stuff into your shirt pocket. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "I'm all man underneath my skirt." Boy George From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 6 14:42:41 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001206081005.3b4fca1a@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > At 10:07 PM 12/5/00 -0800, Don wrote: > > > > > >On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > > > >> At 06:49 PM 12/5/00 -0800, Josh wrote: > >> >I would be happy to scan the Osborne docs and make them available on > the web > >> >(and return them promptly!). The only question is, what format should > they > >> >be in? ASCII seems to be the logical choice, but of course you loose all > >> >the diagrams. PDF would be nice (and make the scanning much easier), but > >> >how portable is PDF? Also, file sizes tend to get big with PDFs. > >> >Suggestions on the format? > >> > >> > >> You're right about ASCII being nice. It's a readable on a lot more > >> systems than PDF is and the files are smaller too. But as you say, it's > >> more work and you lose the diagrams. The best solution would be to post > >> both but that's even more work and requires storage space. > > > >I would suggest that PDF is the better format. The downloader can send > >the PDF file to pdf2text@adobe.com or pdf2html@adobe.com and have it > >back in ascii form in about a minute or two. Rather remarkable service! > > > > > I wasn't aware of that. Do they charge for that? > > Joe > No, all free! There is an alternate site also, but I did not log the URL. - don From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 6 14:46:54 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <1102.375T850T2354291optimus@canit.se> References: <1102.375T850T2354291optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <20001206204654.25597.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Iggy Drougge" wrote: > Actually, I think CD-ROM deserves a nomination. It's an optical floppy > /without/ any protection from outside forces whatsoever. It's actually > quite horrible. I find it amazing that someone would have a problem with CD-ROM. It's incredibly cheap (since it's a spin-off of a consumer audio format). > /without/ any protection from outside forces whatsoever. I have no clue what you mean by that, but they built in an absolutely *huge* amount of error correction. CDs withstand more abuse than any other data storage medium with which I'm familiar. > It's also a read-only memory. You say that as if it was a bad thing. > but to write anything to a CD, you have to > go through an intricate mastering process. Since it was never designed to be writable, you're lucky to be able to write it at all. You've got to expect some hassle. You might just as well complain that it's harder to write EPROMs than to read them. > At least cassettes usually had a simple user interface. You've lost me there. With cassettes you have to worry about which side and position to use. They're not generally random access devices. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 6 15:46:50 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: References: <01a701c05f97$076035a0$67784ed8@DOMAIN> <009c01c05edd$86f60f70$a7794ed8@DOMAIN> <009301c05ee3$79926bc0$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001206164650.094ff46c@mailhost.intellistar.net> I carry a leatherman tool EVERYWHERE. I was probably the only engineer at Martin Marietta that ever had any tools. I'll bet I've fixed a zillion pairs of glasses and removed/installed a million cable screws with that tool. The leatherman tool isn't perfect but it'll get you by in just about any situation. I even fixed the trottle on my Nissan Maxima with it while standing on the side of the road in south nowhere Geargia. Joe At 09:38 AM 12/6/00 -0800, you wrote: >>Good point. And one can also gauge how deeply (insane) emersed in >>collecting these things they are by the size/complexity of those pocket >>tool(s) carried along. ;) > >I have a two ended screwdriver, blade and phillips, clipped in my shirt >pocket with 2 pens, and a small notepad (thank you real estate ladies of >the world), and have a Gerber LST pocketknife in a pants pocket. This is my >daily rig I always have. > >For serious scrounging I have a plastic tub with a lid just large enough to >hold a legal size pad in the bottom. In that I have "real" screwdrivers, >gloves (leather work gloves and rubber no yuck disposable gloves), nut >drivers in a few critical smaller sizes, a big adjustable wrench, diagonal >cutter, sometimes a cordless drill, a few static bags, some tie wraps, etc. >Plus of course a few "fishing" tools, ie old RS232 cables for fishing in >dumpsters. > >Tool that I yearn for; Cresent tiny slip joint pliers, the really small one >maybe 5 inches long. Optional longing for Leatherman or Gerber pocket tools. > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 6 14:48:55 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> (message from John Foust on Wed, 06 Dec 2000 09:38:49 -0600) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> Message-ID: <20001206204855.25624.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I've wondered about that. Considering the inevitable decay of > aluminum CDs as well as now nearly-free CD-R media, will there > be a demand for very smart readers in the future that might > be able to rescue otherwise unreadable data? Copy your aluminum CDs, CD-ROMs, and silver CD-R to gold CD-R before the bits fall off. Gold CD-R lasts at least five times as long as the silver crap. Kodak published a white paper explaining how they were comfortable with giving gold CD-R a *conservative* rating of 100 years data retention (when stored in a reasonable manner). From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Wed Dec 6 14:49:03 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (FBA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: 2.88 mb floppy drives Message-ID: <009301c05fc6$010c98e0$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> >BTW isn't it nice that a lot of new games are for the PS2. ;) Yeah but I wish they would have them on floppys instead of CD because I don't have a CD-ROM drive on my PS2 model P70. > >Cheers, Mike Ford > > From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Wed Dec 6 14:51:05 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (FBA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always Message-ID: <009a01c05fc6$42708e90$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> I'm not sure you can fish out equipment with a rs 422 with such cable, I think you need compatible signal. -----Original Message----- From: Andreas Meyer To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 2:38 PM Subject: Re: What tools do you carry, always > >I always carry a Leatherman Micra; it's small, light and versatile. > >Mike Ford writes: >> Plus of course a few "fishing" tools, ie old RS232 cables for fishing in >> dumpsters. > >Okay, you'll need to explain that one to me. > >If there's an old cable that lets you drop one end into a dumpster, >and latches onto a mating connector to help you pull equipment out, >I want one too! :) > >Andy From lgwalker at look.ca Wed Dec 6 14:51:14 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? In-Reply-To: <011601c05f32$a24b20d0$24bcfacf@r> Message-ID: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> > The slot in the front is an MO drive, either you need to have a MO > with the OS, or a SCSI drive (or cd) with the OS on the chain. > > Alternatively, you could install a *bsd on it, > > Ryan > Hmm. While I know NextStep uses a BSD shell, and there has been talk of a Linux port to Next boxes, I haven't heard of using one of the other flavors of BSD on it. Since NS is pretty well stalled in development and OSx seems to be Apples plans for it, *bsd might be a nice way to go, since it has an evergrowing list of new apps. Are there any docs for installing it on Next machines ? I have a color slab which is overwhelmingly my fave box. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 6 14:48:42 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: TS1000 gets $800 composite monitor In-Reply-To: <200012061850.KAA11978@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <1365.375T2100T13085569optimus@canit.se> Cameron Kaiser skrev: >> While we're on the subject of video mods, is there any way to get RGB out a >> C64 or C128? I find it amazing that Commodore never added that. Are these >> supposed to be computers or what? Even the Sega Master System had RGB! >Out of a 128? Yes, but only in VDC 80-column mode. The 9-pin DSUB in the back >exports a signal that works just fine with most CGA and many EGA monitors, >and if you are ridiculously lucky enough to have a multisync that can drop to >a frequency that low, a select few VGA/SVGA monitors. I do have both an Amiga 1438S (OEM Microvitec), NEC Multisync 3D and Eizo something or other. The Eizo will quite happily take digital signals, too, IIRC. OTOH, I already have a mono 80-column monitor, so that won't help me much. I'd rather like to see the blue BASIC screen in 40-column mode. How deep into the traces on the C64 must one go in order to obtain RGB, RGB not reassembled out of composite or Y/C, that is. >Otherwise (for 40-column 128 mode and the 64), find something like AIM Labs' >JAM!! box, which takes S-video, composite and just about everything else, and >spits out VGA. Never used it myself, however. Useless, since I've already got monitors for every kind of computer output. =/ -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Alle Verallgemeinerungen sind gef?hrlich, sogar diese. --- Alexandre Dumas der ?ltere From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 6 14:52:02 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: 2.88 mb floppy drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1095.375T100T13123513optimus@canit.se> Mike Ford skrev: >>For no real sane reason I have the itch to put a 2.88 MB floppy drive in my >>next otherwise fairly normal PC. Seems like the world is littered with 2.88 >>drives for the old PS/2, but I see nothing that works with a normal PC >>floppy connection (although most if not all motherboards do support 2.88 >>and/or LS120). Any tips on finding a PC 2.88? Do they really need the ED >>media? >My guess is that being MCA they are PS/2 types, but maybe not. Thanks for >checking. How about the PS/1? These did have ED drives too, IIRC, but were AFAIK not MCA. >BTW isn't it nice that a lot of new games are for the PS2. ;) No, I hate it. People seem to be talking about MCA machines all day long these days, only resulting in disappointment when I mention my models 8070 or 8095. =( -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning. -- Rick Cook, Mission Manager, NASA Mars Pathfinder Project From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Dec 6 15:07:45 2000 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: 2.88 mb floppy drives Message-ID: In a message dated 12/6/00 2:59:33 PM Central Standard Time, optimus@canit.se writes: > Mike Ford skrev: > > >>For no real sane reason I have the itch to put a 2.88 MB floppy drive in > my > >>next otherwise fairly normal PC. Seems like the world is littered with > 2.88 > >>drives for the old PS/2, but I see nothing that works with a normal PC > >>floppy connection (although most if not all motherboards do support 2.88 > >>and/or LS120). Any tips on finding a PC 2.88? Do they really need the ED > >>media? > > >My guess is that being MCA they are PS/2 types, but maybe not. Thanks for > >checking. > > How about the PS/1? These did have ED drives too, IIRC, but were AFAIK not > MCA > >BTW isn't it nice that a lot of new games are for the PS2. ;) > > No, I hate it. People seem to be talking about MCA machines all day long > these > days, only resulting in disappointment when I mention my models 8070 or > 8095. > ( minor correction; no PS/1 model ever came with ED drives. All of them except for the very first models used standard 3.5 drives. Even so, all of the 85xx series used 1.44 drives although I think a few models could use a 2.88 if so equipped. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001206/94551ec6/attachment.html From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 6 15:09:58 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: As for the ST225, don't forget that they *love* to cook their logic boards... there's one spot that gets hot and then the logic board rolls over and dies... Some of my favorite drives: Anything made by Vertex CDC Sabre (I had a rack fall over with a pair of these in it and they're still 100% AOK, despite having been mounted like 3 feet up in the rack) CDC FSD CDC MMD DEC RA90 (of course, I personally know one of the designers of this drive, so if it fails, I *will* bitch at him!) IBM 8102... Nothing says hard disk like 62MB in 600lbs! Will J _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 6 15:07:26 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001206121039.007cd3c0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <487.375T1300T13275353optimus@canit.se> Edwin P. Groot skrev: >resolution of the display. For those without Adobe Acrobat, that text >conversion service would leave them S.O.L. for the images, but doesn't >everybody with internet access have a modern computer they can use to look >at PDFs? No. (For the record, I do, but there are others who don't. I suppose they simply are shit out of luck, though) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Menyn ?r inte lika sexig som telnet, det ?r h?rt men sant. Petri Oksanen #38 p? SUGA BBS From ryan at inc.net Wed Dec 6 15:19:59 2000 From: ryan at inc.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:28 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? References: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> Message-ID: <3A2EAD7F.9750C902@inc.net> http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/next68k/ -R Lawrence Walker wrote: > > The slot in the front is an MO drive, either you need to have a MO > > with the OS, or a SCSI drive (or cd) with the OS on the chain. > > > > Alternatively, you could install a *bsd on it, > > > > Ryan > > > > Hmm. While I know NextStep uses a BSD shell, and there has > been talk of a Linux port to Next boxes, I haven't heard of using > one of the other flavors of BSD on it. Since NS is pretty well > stalled in development and OSx seems to be Apples plans for it, > *bsd might be a nice way to go, since it has an evergrowing list > of new apps. > Are there any docs for installing it on Next machines ? I have a > color slab which is overwhelmingly my fave box. > > ciao larry > > > > Reply to: > lgwalker@look.ca -- ------------------------------------------------------- Ryan K. Brooks V: 414-908-9011 r@hack.net F: 707-885-4944 Chief Scientist / Time Warner Telecom N9YBX From sean at techcare.com Wed Dec 6 15:24:50 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? References: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> Message-ID: <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Walker" To: "Ryan K. Brooks" ; Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 3:51 PM Subject: Re: NEXTcube, now what? > > > > The slot in the front is an MO drive, either you need to have a MO > > with the OS, or a SCSI drive (or cd) with the OS on the chain. > > > > Alternatively, you could install a *bsd on it, > > > > Ryan > > > > Hmm. While I know NextStep uses a BSD shell, and there has > been talk of a Linux port to Next boxes, I haven't heard of using > one of the other flavors of BSD on it. Since NS is pretty well > stalled in development and OSx seems to be Apples plans for it, > *bsd might be a nice way to go, since it has an evergrowing list > of new apps. > Are there any docs for installing it on Next machines ? I have a > color slab which is overwhelmingly my fave box. > > ciao larry > > > > Reply to: > lgwalker@look.ca > NetBSD is working on a port to NeXT machines; however I think it only currently runs on the 68040 Slab systems (cubes too?). I'd rather run NeXTStep myself (since it is such a good match for the hardware - you can run BSD almost anywhere, but only NeXT systems [for all practical purposes] can run NeXTStep) but if you don't have NeXTStep available, I imagine NetBSD or something along those lines like Linux would be a good way to go. * I know there are Intel, SPARC, and HP PA ports of NeXTStep too, but c'mon.. NeXTStep on NeXT.. it's just sacred! :) --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Dec 6 15:29:35 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <20001206204855.25624.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206152910.029a8910@pc> At 08:48 PM 12/6/00 +0000, Eric Smith wrote: >Copy your aluminum CDs, CD-ROMs, and silver CD-R to gold CD-R before the >bits fall off. Gold CD-R lasts at least five times as long as the >silver crap. And the technical difference between silver and gold crap? :-) Different dyes? - John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 6 13:21:47 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: old floppy drives In-Reply-To: <009201c05f1d$c8775d10$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> from "Mike Kenzie" at Dec 5, 0 07:45:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 869 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001206/83353cd8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 6 13:24:31 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: from "Glenatacme@aol.com" at Dec 5, 0 11:06:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 666 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001206/4d6565cd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 6 13:57:20 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: RML380Z and exploding sun psus [long and boring] In-Reply-To: <3A2E8A49.1AA89F39@rdel.co.uk> from "Paul Williams" at Dec 6, 0 06:49:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1687 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001206/7c83e8e1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 6 13:43:22 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Dec 6, 0 09:38:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1424 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001206/ceb1217b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 6 13:48:53 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: RML380Z and exploding sun psus [long and boring] In-Reply-To: <20001206173912.15248.qmail@web1605.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?kebabthesheep?=" at Dec 6, 0 09:39:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1813 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001206/19d3fed4/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 6 15:43:55 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <20001206153100.C4098@spies.com> References: ; from Mike Ford on Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 09:38:26AM -0800 <009c01c05edd$86f60f70$a7794ed8@DOMAIN> <009301c05ee3$79926bc0$0200a8c0@marvin> <01a701c05f97$076035a0$67784ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: >> Plus of course a few "fishing" tools, ie old RS232 cables for fishing in >> dumpsters. > >Okay, you'll need to explain that one to me. Untangling a bunch of cords I was thinking to myself that some of the old RS232 cables with big screws on the sides seem to catch on everything, and a lightbulb came on. They do catch on just about everything, so I keep a couple sizes in the car to fish in dumpsters with. They wedge, hook, wrap, etc. and they are pretty strong. The stiffness of the cable lets you drop one down in the dumpster, then by twisting the end in your hand, sort of walk it under stuff. Very handy, not very obviously a fishing tool. BTW I have fished out sealed plastic bags of various items, and that is a challenge, since there isn't anything to grip. Of course you can also sort of make a loop at the end which works a bit like a snare if you can drop it around something and pull to tighten before the loop slips apart. From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Dec 6 15:44:39 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: <487.375T1300T13275353optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Dec 6, 2000 10:07:26 pm" Message-ID: <200012062144.eB6Lid410521@bg-tc-ppp592.monmouth.com> > Edwin P. Groot skrev: > > >resolution of the display. For those without Adobe Acrobat, that text > >conversion service would leave them S.O.L. for the images, but doesn't > >everybody with internet access have a modern computer they can use to look > >at PDFs? > > No. > (For the record, I do, but there are others who don't. I suppose they simply > are shit out of luck, though) > Actually, there was an Acroread for DOS. I don't know if it's still good with the newer Acrobat Distillers... but it used to be available. I've got a copy here -- but haven't installed it. Adobe may have blown it off their web site now. -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 2609640 Apr 10 1996 /dos/c/tmp/acrodos.exe -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From ryan at inc.net Wed Dec 6 15:44:58 2000 From: ryan at inc.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? References: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> Message-ID: <3A2EB35A.6F569D4B@inc.net> > > * I know there are Intel, SPARC, and HP PA ports of NeXTStep too, > but c'mon.. NeXTStep on NeXT.. it's just sacred! :) > Agreed. I think he'll find NeXTstep to be great. The absolutely perfect Terminal.app is worth it by itself. The only downside IMHO is that it's a somewhat screwy hybrid 4.2 system that makes compilation a little old school for my tastes. > > --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net -- ------------------------------------------------------- Ryan K. Brooks V: 414-908-9011 r@hack.net F: 707-885-4944 Chief Scientist / Time Warner Telecom N9YBX From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 6 15:43:59 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001206121039.007cd3c0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> from "Edwin P. Groot" at Dec 6, 0 12:10:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 443 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001206/121026a2/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Dec 6 13:49:40 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206152910.029a8910@pc> References: <20001206204855.25624.qmail@brouhaha.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001206134547.01964de8@208.226.86.10> At 03:29 PM 12/6/2000 -0600, John Foust wrote: >And the technical difference between silver and gold crap? :-) >Different dyes? No, different elements. One uses aluminum foil and the other gold foil. Aluminum has the unfortunate tendency to oxidize once oxygen permeates(sp?) the plastic or the top seal. This oxidation shows up as "black crud" growing from a crack or scratch. Gold on the other hand doesn't oxidize and so doesn't fail in this manner. The life of Al CD's is conservatively 25 years, gold 100 years. I read the National Archive report but a recent Google search didn't turn it up again. I only use "gold" CD-R disks :-) --Chuck From gregorym at cadvision.com Wed Dec 6 15:51:37 2000 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? References: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> Message-ID: <015a01c05fce$b8ff1380$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Caron" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 2:24 PM Subject: Re: NEXTcube, now what? > I'd rather run > NeXTStep myself (since it is such a good match for the hardware - you > can run BSD almost anywhere, but only NeXT systems [for all practical > purposes] can run NeXTStep) You may still be able to get NeXTStep 3.3 installation media (on CD-ROM) from Apple. There was a program to provide Y2K updates, with NS 3.3 thrown in as a bonus. All you had to do was provide Apple with the serial number of your Cube or Slab (black hardware only). NeXT took the very sensible position that the OS is integral to the machine, so to prove that you have the right to the OS, you just had to prove you have a Cube of Slab. I believe the upgrade was free, but you may have had to pay S & H. The program was still in effect 9 months ago. The external SCSI connector on NeXTs is an Apple-standard DB-25, so any external SCSI CD-ROM will do, and NeXTs can be setup to boot from CD-ROM. Regards, Mark "Still remorseful about selling my Cube" Gregory From russ at rbcs.8m.com Wed Dec 6 16:04:16 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001206164650.094ff46c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: I carry a leatherman/Gerber type multi tool ($7 at AutoZone and just as good) and a small aluminum flashlight in a belt holder that I got from Walmart for about $10. I also have a GI style multi-purpose pocket knife that I got from Auto Zone for around $6 that has an awl (great for eyeglass screws and tweeking trim pots), crow's beak can/bottle opener, flat screwdriver (basically my mini prybar) and of course a razor sharp regular blade. I had one issued to me when I was in the AF but lost it on a cabling job at a previous employer. This is exactly the same and even has a clip on the side that the AF knife didn't, and the same quality. I also usually carry one of those small pocket screwdrivers that has a #1 or 0 phillips on top and flat blade on the lower and clips in your shirt pocket with your pens. I arc'd one accidentally on a battery post working on an electrical problem but 3 days later found a nice one in a junk box where I used to work and this one is magnetic enough to be used as a pickup tool but not strong enough to stop my pacemaker (kidding). -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Joe Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 3:47 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What tools do you carry, always I carry a leatherman tool EVERYWHERE. I was probably the only engineer at Martin Marietta that ever had any tools. I'll bet I've fixed a zillion pairs of glasses and removed/installed a million cable screws with that tool. The leatherman tool isn't perfect but it'll get you by in just about any situation. I even fixed the trottle on my Nissan Maxima with it while standing on the side of the road in south nowhere Geargia. Joe At 09:38 AM 12/6/00 -0800, you wrote: >>Good point. And one can also gauge how deeply (insane) emersed in >>collecting these things they are by the size/complexity of those pocket >>tool(s) carried along. ;) > >I have a two ended screwdriver, blade and phillips, clipped in my shirt >pocket with 2 pens, and a small notepad (thank you real estate ladies of >the world), and have a Gerber LST pocketknife in a pants pocket. This is my >daily rig I always have. > >For serious scrounging I have a plastic tub with a lid just large enough to >hold a legal size pad in the bottom. In that I have "real" screwdrivers, >gloves (leather work gloves and rubber no yuck disposable gloves), nut >drivers in a few critical smaller sizes, a big adjustable wrench, diagonal >cutter, sometimes a cordless drill, a few static bags, some tie wraps, etc. >Plus of course a few "fishing" tools, ie old RS232 cables for fishing in >dumpsters. > >Tool that I yearn for; Cresent tiny slip joint pliers, the really small one >maybe 5 inches long. Optional longing for Leatherman or Gerber pocket tools. > > > From gibbsjj at u.washington.edu Wed Dec 6 16:07:37 2000 From: gibbsjj at u.washington.edu (Josh Gibbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? References: <487.375T1300T13275353optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <008b01c05fd0$f19209d0$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> > Edwin P. Groot skrev: > > >resolution of the display. For those without Adobe Acrobat, that text > >conversion service would leave them S.O.L. for the images, but doesn't > >everybody with internet access have a modern computer they can use to look > >at PDFs? > > No. > (For the record, I do, but there are others who don't. I suppose they simply > are shit out of luck, though) Easily solved... If they can at least download and store the file on some sort of removable media, they can take it to a Kinko's and have a copy printed. Of course, I could always put a note on the page offering to print and mail a copy for a small fee. PDF's print out very nicely. Josh From msg at computerpro.com Wed Dec 6 16:05:22 2000 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: CDC Sabre information References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB387@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3A2EB822.9FFD28CD@computerpro.com> Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Michael- does the front of it look anything like what can > be seen in the photo in this link: > > http://members.iglou.com/dougq/p2455/thmb_ICS&Cipher.jpg > > The item at the lwer left inside the large chassis is what > I'm referring to. I magnified the image 4x but alas no, there is nothing in that chassis resembling the front panel. I haven't had the chance to photograph it yet; I'll post it when I do. Thanks, Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From russ at rbcs.8m.com Wed Dec 6 16:10:13 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I also keep a ziplock bag with a few GP screws and mini/micro jumpers as well as an empty one to keep the hardware for that job in until I finish. I've even used the point of the knife blade to lossen/remove phillips screws on cases and drive mounts. As for the tools that I have in cases and bags - a BFH or a Big Friggin Hammer is always the number one tool on the larger iron such as midrange printers. I carry 2 soft tool bags and 3 hard cases full of varied tool setups (one soft bag is only test equipment and cabling tools) and only carry the one I feel I'll need for that job. Of course clean rags and rubbing alcohol around printing equipment is an absolute necessity. I also carry a full selection of replacement parts, cables, etc in a "tote" in the back of the truck as well as a full spool of twinax and Cat5 cable. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 11:38 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: What tools do you carry, always >Good point. And one can also gauge how deeply (insane) emersed in >collecting these things they are by the size/complexity of those pocket >tool(s) carried along. ;) I have a two ended screwdriver, blade and phillips, clipped in my shirt pocket with 2 pens, and a small notepad (thank you real estate ladies of the world), and have a Gerber LST pocketknife in a pants pocket. This is my daily rig I always have. For serious scrounging I have a plastic tub with a lid just large enough to hold a legal size pad in the bottom. In that I have "real" screwdrivers, gloves (leather work gloves and rubber no yuck disposable gloves), nut drivers in a few critical smaller sizes, a big adjustable wrench, diagonal cutter, sometimes a cordless drill, a few static bags, some tie wraps, etc. Plus of course a few "fishing" tools, ie old RS232 cables for fishing in dumpsters. Tool that I yearn for; Cresent tiny slip joint pliers, the really small one maybe 5 inches long. Optional longing for Leatherman or Gerber pocket tools. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Wed Dec 6 16:13:50 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always Message-ID: I always have a pen, two or three 3 X 5 cards, and a Phillips/flat bladed screwdriver. My wife has washed this lot more than once and she still loves me. The best tool I have is an open helpful mind, I have been given more computers by people who have asked me a "computer" question or found out that I collect old computers. I received a complete Xerox 6085 system, manuals, cables and all software because I offered to help a friend move some "old" computers. My physical tool list when I'm computer hunting or not at work. Small serv-a-lite screwdriver that has a double ended shaft with interchangeable flat and Phillips screwdrivers. Several sizes are great for cable connectors and odd case screws. Small penlight that will fit in my mouth and that I can breath around while I am taking thinks apart head down in a dark dumpster or gaylord. Small pad to write down the part/model numbers of items I can't identify, I can then look them up on the net. One flexi magnetic thing to pick up dropped screws. Fine tip permanent marker to label cables and receptacles. Small tipped needle nose pliers to disconnect cables. When I am going fast I occasionally have an old tiny speaker magnet in a plastic petri dish that I can throw screws at and they stick. Magnifying glass that folds in/out of case. I have found that my glasses get in the way if I wear them, they fall off in the worst places even with a strap, are focussed wrong especially in the dark. My eyes need help identifying disk drives, CPU type and memory chip numbers. I'm having withdrawal, I haven't looked at an unknown computer in 3 days. I need a fix. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 6 16:27:22 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206152910.029a8910@pc> (message from John Foust on Wed, 06 Dec 2000 15:29:35 -0600) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20001206152910.029a8910@pc> Message-ID: <20001206222722.27514.qmail@brouhaha.com> I wrote: > Copy your aluminum CDs, CD-ROMs, and silver CD-R to gold CD-R before the > bits fall off. Gold CD-R lasts at least five times as long as the > silver crap. John Foust wrote: > And the technical difference between silver and gold crap? :-) > Different dyes? No, the actual reflective layer. AFAIK, all discs with a gold-colored reflective layer actually use gold. The dye may be clear or green, which results in "gold/gold" or "gold/green" discs. The dye used may have some effect on the longevity (especially when subjected to extremes of temperature), but the reflective layer is *much* more significant. The silver discs may have various dye colors, so they end up being "silver/silver", "silver/blue" or other colors. I think the CD-Rs with a silver-colored reflective layer all actually use silver, although perhaps they could use aluminum. Either way they will oxidize, while gold will not. When they oxidize, they become insufficiently reflective for the optics of the player to distingush the pits from the lands. I imagine that eventually they will come up with a reflective layer that looks gold but isn't. It will be a marketing breakthrough. I'm unimpressed with the discs that claim to be a mix of silver and gold. If it looks silver, I doubt that there's enough gold content to make a difference. Unfortunately it is often impossible to tell what the reflective layer is from the packaging. However, because there's so much difference in manufacturing cost, there is now a rule of thumb to use on new media: if they don't claim it's gold, it almost certainly isn't. If you shop around, you can find the Kodak gold discs (not the silver/gold) for $0.80 each in spindles of 50. I occasionally see silver discs for $0.15 each. I sometimes use silver discs for non-archival purposes, but for anything that I care about I use gold. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Dec 6 16:32:17 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: "r. 'bear' stricklin" "Re: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive)" (Dec 6, 12:54) References: Message-ID: <10012062232.ZM9065@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 6, 12:54, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Tue, 5 Dec 2000 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > Miniscribe 3650 > > I think I had one of these. 3.5" HH 40 MB MFM disk? ca. 60ms seek > times? Loudest drive I've ever heard. Maybe. I have a really nice 5MB Olivetti drive. It's 5 1/4" full height, has an excellent stepper motor, and nicely distracts you from the noise of the air conditioning. > How about the Exabyte 8200? Famous for forgetting they had tapes in them > and refusing to eject. Not only that, but it was commonly referred to as > the 'write once, read never' backup media. I haven't had that problem with mine. Come to think of it, that one's been upgraded a couple of times. Unlike the one I gave away. I can't seem to remember why I gave it away ;-) > We won't talk about the TK50. You're right, we won't, please. If anyone really needs to know why, take a look at http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Posts.html#tk50 > I will, however, nominate any hard disk Micropolis made which was in a > smaller form factor than 5.25" FH. Garbage. :-) > Oh, and the Seagate Barracudas. Ran so fast they burned themselves up. At > one point we had a 50% DOA rate on these drives. The remaining ones > usually fried inside of 30 days. We never did figure out how Seagate > managed to come up with their 500k-hour MTBF on these disks. Well, you have to understand what MTBF means. It means that after some number of hours, some proportion of the test set has a 50% chance of failure. Nobody said anything about powering them up during that period. Never put a Barracuda in an SGI Indy or Indigo, it may invalidate your warranty. In fact, it may invalidate several things. Permanently. > > How about a vote on the BEST disk drives ever? > > The IBM UltraStar ES. That's nice to know, that's what I bought for my servers. > Nah, I had a 4096N which had stiction. It took progressively stronger > shocks to the chassis to get it to spin up, until finally I was beating it > with a shoe. That situation ultimately ended in a head crash and data > loss. Sounds like my ST451N (? I think) which exploded. After a while the stiction was so annoying that I cut a screwdriver slot in the exposed part of the spindle. That was fine until one day a head stuck *while it was spinning*... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 6 15:21:00 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: UK relays Message-ID: <677.375T0T13413789optimus@canit.se> I'm getting increasingly interested in Acorn's Archimedes machines, but the total number of such machines in this country should amount to a total of five. Thus, I go to eBay looking for some nice machines. The only problem is then, that every seller is UK only. My question is thus: Would some kind UK resident like passing such a parcel on, acting as a "relay" of some kind? I wouldn't mind paying for your trouble, as well as real shipping costs involved. I'd also appreciate some pointers to other sources for Acorn RISC machines other than the scarce auctions on eBay, as well as good starting systems in an area with low add-ons availability. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 6 15:26:34 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <20001206204654.25597.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <1738.375T1700T13465637optimus@canit.se> Eric Smith skrev: >"Iggy Drougge" wrote: >> Actually, I think CD-ROM deserves a nomination. It's an optical floppy >> /without/ any protection from outside forces whatsoever. It's actually >> quite horrible. >I find it amazing that someone would have a problem with CD-ROM. >It's incredibly cheap (since it's a spin-off of a consumer audio format). So was cassette tape. >> /without/ any protection from outside forces whatsoever. >I have no clue what you mean by that, but they built in an absolutely >*huge* amount of error correction. CDs withstand more abuse than >any other data storage medium with which I'm familiar. Leave it on my sandy floor and it will have a nice finish. If the CD were built like the MD, I'd be very content. >> It's also a read-only memory. >You say that as if it was a bad thing. Of course I do. Unless you're a games manufacturer, you, too should see why. >> but to write anything to a CD, you have to >> go through an intricate mastering process. >Since it was never designed to be writable, you're lucky to be able to >write it at all. You've got to expect some hassle. You might just as >well complain that it's harder to write EPROMs than to read them. True, but EPROMs haven't been emplyed on such a wide scale. >> At least cassettes usually had a simple user interface. >You've lost me there. With cassettes you have to worry about which >side and position to use. They're not generally random access devices. They certainly aren't, and the sequentiality makes it a bit difficult, but SAVE and LOAD work the same way, unlike the CD. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. I use OpenBSD 'coz it has a cool blowfish logo. The other BSDs look satanic. - Anonymous Coward From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 6 16:33:34 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001206134547.01964de8@208.226.86.10> (message from Chuck McManis on Wed, 06 Dec 2000 13:49:40 -0600) References: <20001206204855.25624.qmail@brouhaha.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> <5.0.0.25.2.20001206134547.01964de8@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <20001206223334.27637.qmail@brouhaha.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > The life of Al CD's is conservatively 25 > years, gold 100 years. I read the National Archive report but a recent > Google search didn't turn it up again. I only use "gold" CD-R disks :-) I'll have to look for that report. I've been really worried that gold media would completely disappear (or become insanely expensive), as a triumph of crapitalism [1]. I feel that it's important to educate people about this, in an attempt to prevent this outcome. Some people don't think it matters if their discs last that long. But I've talked to people who use CD-R for storing their photographs, and I think they'll be very disappointed someday if the discs become unreadable. Just like the people who transferred their 8mm home movies to VHS in the 1980s and threw away the film. [*] crapitalism: the tendency for a "barely adequate" product to be sold in such high volumes that it becomes economically unviable for competitors to offer a higher quality product at any price. From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Wed Dec 6 16:45:44 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: CDC Sabre information In-Reply-To: <3A2EB822.9FFD28CD@computerpro.com> Message-ID: <000501c05fd6$454b80b0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> > http://members.iglou.com/dougq/p2455/thmb_ICS&Cipher.jpg > > The item at the lwer left inside the large chassis is what > I'm referring to. I magnified the image 4x but alas no, there is nothing in that chassis resembling the front panel. - - - - - - P.S. I noticed that if you remove the 'thmb_' from the URL the picture scales up nicely. Not surprising that a 30?lb drive may depart in looks from an 85 lb one. John A. - - - - - - From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Dec 6 16:48:19 2000 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: <20001206.165706.-488589.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Wed, 06 Dec 2000 14:09:58 -0700 "Will Jennings" writes: > As for the ST225, don't forget that they *love* to cook their logic > boards... there's one spot that gets hot and then the logic board > rolls over and dies... Johnny_carson mode ON I did NOT know that . . . /Johnny_carson mode OFF > Some of my favorite drives: > Anything made by Vertex I got a couple of V-185's. A little on the fragile side from a mechanical standpoint, but otherwise hard to kill . . . > CDC Sabre (I had a rack fall over with a pair of these in it and > they're still 100% AOK, despite having been mounted like 3 feet up in the > rack) Really takes a licking, eh? I have a SCSI version of this; still looking for DIP switch settings . . . > CDC FSD These are *BIG* mama's. I was seriously tempted to grab one of these at a local wrecking yard, but then I had a momentary fit of sanity . . . > CDC MMD Never heard of this one . . . > DEC RA90 (of course, I personally know one of the designers of this > drive, so if it fails, I *will* bitch at him!) These have 12" platters, right? Seems like they've been chopping up alot of these lately . . . > IBM 8102... Nothing says hard disk like 62MB in 600lbs! Gee, a drive so big, you have to measure the data density in bits/lb. Lesse here, that comes to 103k bits/lb. There you go; a new metric for measuring classic computing 'stuff'. You heard it here first . . . Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Dec 6 17:03:20 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: CDC Sabre information Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB38F@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > > http://members.iglou.com/dougq/p2455/thmb_ICS&Cipher.jpg > > > > The item at the lwer left inside the large chassis is what > > I'm referring to. > > I magnified the image 4x but alas no, there is nothing in that > chassis resembling the front panel. > > > - - - - - - > P.S. I noticed that if you remove the 'thmb_' from the URL > the picture scales up nicely. Not surprising that a > 30?lb drive may depart in looks from an 85 lb one. Grrr... Thanks, John, I forgot how I had that page set up, and the link I got from the properties was for the thumbnail, not for the image for which it was a link. The full-sized picture is indeed at: http://members.iglou.com/dougq/p2455/ICS&Cipher.jpg This is an FSD 500 (?), and predates Seagate's purchase of CDC's drive division. -dq From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 6 17:31:49 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? In-Reply-To: <3A2EAD7F.9750C902@inc.net> from "Ryan K. Brooks" at "Dec 6, 0 03:19:59 pm" Message-ID: <200012062331.PAA09898@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Hmm. While I know NextStep uses a BSD shell, and there has > > been talk of a Linux port to Next boxes, I haven't heard of using > > one of the other flavors of BSD on it. Since NS is pretty well > > stalled in development and OSx seems to be Apples plans for it, > > *bsd might be a nice way to go, since it has an evergrowing list > > of new apps. > http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/next68k/ I just got the NetBSD Foundation CDs. I'm going to be installing the mac68k port on my IIci. I'll let you know if I like it. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Mickey Mouse wears a Spiro Agnew watch. ------------------------------------ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 6 17:34:21 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: TS1000 gets $800 composite monitor In-Reply-To: <1365.375T2100T13085569optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Dec 6, 0 09:44:16 pm" Message-ID: <200012062334.PAA11960@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > How deep into the traces on the C64 must one go in order to obtain RGB, RGB > not reassembled out of composite or Y/C, that is. You can't. All the VIC-II sends out is Y/C to the RF modulator and the video port. There is no internal RGB. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Die, v.: To stop sinning suddenly. -- Elbert Hubbard ----------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 6 17:37:05 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <3A2E5A12.17447.4784BB@localhost> from Lawrence Walker at "Dec 6, 0 03:24:02 pm" Message-ID: <200012062337.PAA10688@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > > Any disk drive without a track 0 sensor (Apple ][, Commodore, > > > > etc). The heads bang themselves out of alignment with time. > > > OPEN 15,8,15,"I0:NEWDISK,ND" > > True for 1541s, but not 1571s. 1571s do have a track 0 sensor. And a > > v3.1 1571 is the best 5.25" drive out there, I submit -- with > > appropriate software, a 1571 can read most MFM formats, plus Commodore > > GCR, and runs very fast when connected to a 128 in 128 mode. > How does one identify the version of 1571 ? Could you expand on > what you mean by appropriate software ? Are there other platforms > it can be used on ? No, unfortunately -- just Commodore 8-bits. You can either figure out ROM version by cracking it open and reading the EPROM serial number, or sending the drive a UI command and reading the error channel -- it should say the DOS version in the error string (something like 73,CBM DOS 1571 V3.1,00,00). You can get the DOS version of any Commodore drive that way. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Predestination was doomed from the start. ---------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 6 17:30:20 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: TS1000 gets $800 composite monitor In-Reply-To: <200012062334.PAA11960@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Dec 6, 0 03:34:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 679 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001206/f4d1867f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 6 17:32:43 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <200012062337.PAA10688@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Dec 6, 0 03:37:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 682 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001206/e39f2b25/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Dec 6 17:48:42 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: UK relays In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "UK relays" (Dec 6, 22:21) References: <677.375T0T13413789optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10012062348.ZM9239@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 6, 22:21, Iggy Drougge wrote: > I'm getting increasingly interested in Acorn's Archimedes machines [...] > I'd also appreciate some pointers to other sources for Acorn RISC machines > other than the scarce auctions on eBay, as well as good starting systems in an > area with low add-ons availability. Look for A410, A420, A440, R140 (relatively rare), A540, or R260 because these are easy to expand and cheap. A 310 is a similar machine, but not designed for more than 1MB RAM (though you sometimes see them with 3rd party add-on RAM). The A5000 and 7000 are better but more expensive/less cheap. The A3xxx series are not designed to be expandable, and the A4000 is basically just an A3000 in a different box. comp.sys.acorn.hardware is a good newsgroup to watch. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 6 17:49:38 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: Use for a 3270 terminal References: <000501c05f94$4a9dada0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: <007f01c05fdf$35b14690$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allain" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 9:53 AM Subject: RE: Use for a 3270 terminal > > > Can a 3270 terminal be used as a monitor? > > Some of us would rather that the 3270 be > used as a 3270. Where is it located? > You culd sell it, to me if its not too far. > > John A. I'm located in Ottawa. I'll double check the model number when I get to the basement. My new office just finished disposing of several terminals of various sorts. I have an Ampex and don't really need another. I'm trying to keep my collection to home machines. From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 6 17:32:36 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: 2.88 mb floppy drives In-Reply-To: <009301c05fc6$010c98e0$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: <405.376T1800T325525optimus@canit.se> FBA skrev: >>BTW isn't it nice that a lot of new games are for the PS2. ;) >Yeah but I wish they would have them on floppys instead of CD because I >don't have a CD-ROM drive on my PS2 model P70. On the topic of CD drives, were there any official IBM drives with a suitable front for machines with a 5? slot like the PS/2 8085? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Give your child mental blocks for Christmas. From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 6 17:49:19 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? In-Reply-To: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> Message-ID: <1093.376T950T494355optimus@canit.se> Lawrence Walker skrev: >> Alternatively, you could install a *bsd on it, > Are there any docs for installing it on Next machines ? I have a >color slab which is overwhelmingly my fave box. >From http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/next68k/ : NetBSD/next68k is a port of NetBSD to the 'black' 68k NeXT hardware. It currently only runs on 68040 non-turbo (25 MHz) NeXT boxes. There is some code in locore that uses 68040 instructions to turn on the MMU, although it shouldn't be too hard to make the '030 work. Turbo NeXT machines (33Mhz) are not yet supported. Currently only netbooting is supported. The scsi device driver is in development, but is not yet ready for use. Supported computer systems 25 Mhz 68040 Mono cube (NeXT_X15) 25 Mhz 68040 Mono slab (NeXT_WARP9) 25 Mhz 68040 Color slab (NeXT_WARP9C) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Eccovi una delle sigle francesi dedicate a questo shojo... come, non e' uno shojo? Andate a spiegarlo ai francesi... questa e' una canzone da shojo, quindi per me Goldrake e' uno shojo :p Tacchan om den franska signaturmelodin till Goldorak (Grendizer) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Dec 6 16:05:03 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: WTB: VT340 or VT340+ Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001206160013.02813df8@208.226.86.129> All, Just to keep the word "fresh." DEC made a color graphics terminal called the VT340 (and an enhanced version with more colors called the VT340+). These were late model terminals that were supplanted by the availability of PC's that cost less and did more. They are "dual session" meaning they can be hooked up to two computers, and one of their interfaces has a standard RS-232 interface, the other is DEC RS-423. I like these terminals because they are rarely "burned in" (they have a pretty good screen saver) and they can draw pictures (always nice) and the sessions can have different color schemes so its easy to know which one you are looking at. So if you see some terminals being disposed and you see some of these, let me or the list know. Thanks, --Chuck From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 6 18:11:10 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <735.376T500T714521optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> conversion service would leave them S.O.L. for the images, but doesn't >> everybody with internet access have a modern computer they can use to look >> at PDFs? >No. As an example, I don't. >My PC (which is what I use to access the Internet) has an MDA card (text >only). I run a text-based linux system. Don't you have any printer to dump it to? That is the best way to read a PDF (and the best reason to stay at school). >The machines I have with reasonable graphics (PERQs, I2S image displays, >etc) don't seem to have pdf viewers ported to them... LOL, what a shame. The PERQ screen seems to be really well-suited to portrait pages. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Test makers do it sometimes/always/never. From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 6 18:30:58 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? References: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> <015a01c05fce$b8ff1380$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <00f201c05fe4$fb749e40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Gregory" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 4:51 PM Subject: Re: NEXTcube, now what? > You may still be able to get NeXTStep 3.3 installation media (on CD-ROM) > from Apple. There was a program to provide Y2K updates, with NS 3.3 thrown > in as a bonus. All you had to do was provide Apple with the serial number > of your Cube or Slab (black hardware only). NeXT took the very sensible > position that the OS is integral to the machine, so to prove that you have > the right to the OS, you just had to prove you have a Cube of Slab. I > believe the upgrade was free, but you may have had to pay S & H. The > program was still in effect 9 months ago. > > The external SCSI connector on NeXTs is an Apple-standard DB-25, so any > external SCSI CD-ROM will do, and NeXTs can be setup to boot from CD-ROM. OK I opened it up. Everything inside has been disconnected. The main board seems to be missing all the RAM and cache. Did NEXT put RAM on the MB like Apple did? The second board is also missing RAM and has a large I860 chip and RAMDAC on it with another connector in the center with nothing on it. Any sites showing the internals of a CUBE? There is a square air filter? Where does this go? If the drive is a OM then why did I only get CD's ? There seems to be a cut-out in the grill work above the OM is this a door for the floppy mentioned in the manual or just a cut-out for a possible floppy? From red at bears.org Wed Dec 6 18:55:57 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? In-Reply-To: <00f201c05fe4$fb749e40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Dec 2000, Mike Kenzie wrote: > > The external SCSI connector on NeXTs is an Apple-standard DB-25, so > > any external SCSI CD-ROM will do, and NeXTs can be setup to boot > > from CD-ROM. This is actually only true of the '030 cubes. Later machines use a standard mini-50 (what the heck is the official name for this connector?) like the sun4m machines do. > OK I opened it up. Everything inside has been disconnected. > The main board seems to be missing all the RAM and cache. I'm not sure it had any removable cache. The RAM (if it's an '030 cube) will be standard non-parity 30-pin SIMMs. You can use parity RAM but the system will not derive any benefit from doing so. If you're looking at the empty 72-pin SIMM slot, that was a connector into which the proprietary DSP RAM expansion daughtercard fit into. Not very many of thsee were sold. You'll probably never find anything to fit this. I know I haven't. > Did NEXT put RAM on the MB like Apple did? Yep. > The second board is also missing RAM and has a large I860 > chip and RAMDAC on it with another connector in the center > with nothing on it. That's the NeXTdimension board, which gives your cube a colour framebuffer and the ability to throw NTSC video around. These are highly sought-after and still fetch several hundred dollars by themselves on eBay. I'd like to find one myself. The card needs RAM (officially up to 64 MB, unofficially up to 128 MB) as it's essentially a postscript engine. It needs at least 16 MB, I believe, to function. I'm nearly certain that you'll find the empty connector in the centre is for the JPEG co-processor daughtercard, which wasn't ever released. > There is a square air filter? Where does this go? Over the back of the optical disk drive. A properly configured cube pulls air through the rear vent and exhausts it out the front. Some early cubes got this backward and sucked dust into the OD. Oops. NeXT offered a kit to correct this. > If the drive is a OM then why did I only get CD's ? Because sometimes stuff happens. It's possible but highly unlikely that somebody retrofitted a standard SCSI CD-ROM drive in behind the slot. NeXT never offered such a thing. > There seems to be a cut-out in the grill work above the OM > is this a door for the floppy mentioned in the manual or > just a cut-out for a possible floppy? Possible floppy, if it's floppy-sized. If it's the same size as the OD opening, it's for a possible second OD. If you've got the back off, look in and see what's there. Sheesh! r. From gregorym at cadvision.com Wed Dec 6 18:51:56 2000 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? References: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> <015a01c05fce$b8ff1380$0200a8c0@marvin> <00f201c05fe4$fb749e40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <026301c05fe7$e5f50ca0$0200a8c0@marvin> > > OK I opened it up. Everything inside has been disconnected. > The main board seems to be missing all the RAM and cache. > > Did NEXT put RAM on the MB like Apple did? > IIRC, the Cubes used 30 pin non-parity SIMMs, either 1M or 4M, in banks of 4. Each bank has to have the same type of RAM. The memory is auto-detected by the OS; no jumpers to set. > The second board is also missing RAM and has a large I860 > chip and RAMDAC on it with another connector in the center > with nothing on it. > I don't know what this second board is; it's not related to the mainboard. The Cube has everything on one mainboard. Maybe someone else can recognize it from the description. > Any sites showing the internals of a CUBE? > > There is a square air filter? Where does this go? Not sure; best guess, either in front of the fan, or behind the MO disk. The NeXT's drew air from the front of the system (through the vents and the MO drive aperture), over the mainboard, and out the fan at the back of the case. Dust drawn into the MO drive by this airflow is a major reason for those drives to fail. Many just need a good cleaning. > > If the drive is a OM then why did I only get CD's ? > In later years, NeXT switched definitively to CDs, and it became very hard to find software on MO disk. Probably the previous owner got an OS upgrade kit that came on CD, and lost the MO carts with the earlier OS revs on it. > There seems to be a cut-out in the grill work above the OM > is this a door for the floppy mentioned in the manual or > just a cut-out for a possible floppy? > Depending on the age of the Cube, it could be a floppy cutout (found on later Cubes only), but more likely it's a blank for a second MO drive. NeXT thought these drives were the wave of the future, and assumed that everyone would want two. Most floppies for Cubes were external SCSI floppies. AFAIK, there were never any Cubes made with internal CD-ROM drives; only the Slabs had those, but I might be wrong. Mark. From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 6 14:35:22 2000 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives In-Reply-To: References: <20001206052923.ZLUG29141.femail4.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebox> Message-ID: <20001207012632.GIRA27329.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> > Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 12:54:06 -0500 (EST) > From: "r. 'bear' stricklin" > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > On Tue, 5 Dec 2000 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > Miniscribe 3650 > > I think I had one of these. 3.5" HH 40 MB MFM disk? ca. 60ms seek > times? Loudest drive I've ever heard. Any seagate st2xx and st1xx with upgraded seektimes denoted by the -1 suffix) and miniscrbes with "+" suffix. noisy and short lived. The mechanicals not designed to take that kind of stress. Voice coil is a must when going sub 40ms w/ fast track to track seeks. Also those seagate I listed also those miniscribes. they had heat deaths as well, those stepper ICs cooked nice DARK golden brown spots on PCBs. More specially on miniscribes, they develop stress cracks both in mechanicals and on PCB, two screws that holds the gear rack to the head platform in turn rides on rails loosens up with time and timing got lost. That gives this common "SOS" flashes. On Seagate all ST2xx series, a small spring that takes up the slack inside that spindle bearing assembly weakens and more loose causing data errors. On all st4xxx only ones with external motor cap that rotates has very soft steel spindle shaft and bad batches of bearings also and all drives based on st251 series has soft shaft also. Soft shaft bends very easily when bumped. Yes that's right, did my analysis on failed and dying drives. > I will, however, nominate any hard disk Micropolis made which was in a > smaller form factor than 5.25" FH. Garbage. Confirmed. I had dud 11 micropolis based on 3.5" 1" height drives shipped to me by a seller along with few sick cdroms, 1 quantum hd that I replaced for warrenty. Good deal. Those micropolis 3.5" drives shudders.... they had NO QC at all. No problems on circuit boards, only no torque at all on 80% of screws!! The platters is only held in place by friction via a pressed in hub ring onto second equally loose hub ring, in turn to rest of platter stack. I said loose because that platters hub hole where hub goes through has very loose 1mm slack. Simply center all the platters and platter rings then last hub ring pressed to secure it all. A hard good non-dinging damage bump is enough to shift it all. > Oh, and the Seagate Barracudas. Ran so fast they burned themselves up. At Yup, got working 2.1 barracuda for a bux. Did test it ok but still needs to find a proper quality cooling bracket. > The ST51080N, though.. super-nice. Small, cool, quiet, reasonably A word about this. all ST5xxxx series is bit fussy about handling due to lightly built casing to get ".75 height and the tape band that goes around the seam for a seal tears real easy. Young techs and idiots rips open that foil-like band from rough handling and installation and dust gets in and that drive dies.. Any st5xxxx that are babied w/ care lasted long time. Oh, they're GREAT and they never heat up at all in lousy cases. Another note, it was nice performance for that time but Seagate didn't forgave those techs who cares about details, $eagate cut down that buffer size to 128K from 256K. >:-P And early ST5series smaller than 1G has 4500rpm while greater than 1GB got 5400. YUK. Many reviewers who envaluated drives says buffer sizes doesn't matter much but I do notice the differences. Much as you can get in any given drives helps lot. Wistress the WD, Protege series, 2MB, 5400rpm, dense platter and I didn't notice the loss in performance compared to my GXP 9GB 7200rpm w/ 2MB but big deal for me that protege is deathly quiet and cool to the touch. IBM got the award as well for making speedy hd that is not so noisy. Maxtor, where are you, those drives so noisy and odd performance loss!?. > The IBM UltraStar ES. All ibm drives currently in production. Bar none. speedy and utter reliable. > > Bulletproof drives: > > Seagate St225,251, and 4096 interface version notwithstanding No. These you spreak of were in all computers with poor cooling and poor designs isnide and handlings killed all of them. > Nah, I had a 4096N which had stiction. It took progressively stronger > shocks to the chassis to get it to spin up, until finally I was beating it > with a shoe. That situation ultimately ended in a head crash and data > loss. whap! whap! slap! WHAP! it singed nice tones...sceeech! oops. :-) Now you know I didn't go for that ST4xxx when I discovered these has problems. st1xx has heat buildup problem and they always had died from stickum. Serious heat soak cooks the platters especially landing/taking off areas lube coating wears faster when hot and more softer also. Reult: stickum. If a running drive feels like as hot as holding a paper cup of 10 min old coffee. BAD. I only buy proven and reliable hds by reputation and that haven't failed me in long run. Advice, buy cooler running hd for poor cooling locations. Nearly all machine cases has this problems. Had ST3144A howl LOUDLY like a wolf suddenly. Can hear from next room over clearly. Cheers, Wizard From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Dec 6 19:33:38 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: 68040 cpu needed Message-ID: Does anyone have an extra 68040 cpu running at 33mhz that they don't need? I'vd had a LC-575 mainboard here to put in my Color Classic but it's original CPU came out on it's way to me and a good portion of the pins are pretty mangled. Thanks Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 6 19:48:13 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: 68040 cpu needed In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Dec 06, 2000 08:33:38 PM Message-ID: <200012070148.RAA26870@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Does anyone have an extra 68040 cpu running at 33mhz that > they don't need? I'vd had a LC-575 mainboard here to put in my Color > Classic but it's original CPU came out on it's way to me and a good > portion of the pins are pretty mangled. > > Thanks > Jeff Something to consider, is that a 68040 or a 68LC040? A lot of the 68040 based Mac's were not pure 68040 chips. IIRC, it basically meant they were missing the math coprocessor. Zane From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 6 19:46:04 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <712.376T200T1664129optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >Since the CBM serial bus protocol is documented somewhere (and there are >plenty of hackers who've dug into the C64 and C128 ROMs), I don't think >there's a good reason why the 1571 (and other CBM peripherals) can't be >linked up to _any_ computer and the serial bus simulated by bit-banging >on a TTL-level I/O port. >In fact, isn't there a well-known program to at least read/write disks in >1541 drives from an MS-DOS box? There are loads of such utilities and cables, but they seldom work in a way compatible to the host filesystem. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Alle meine Noten bringen mich nicht aus den N?ten, und ich schreibe noten ?berhaupt nur aus N?ten. --- Ludwig van Beethoven From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Dec 6 19:58:52 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) References: Message-ID: <00f701c05ff1$3fddc730$1ec7fec7@pcat> > > No, unfortunately -- just Commodore 8-bits. You can either figure out ROM > > Since the CBM serial bus protocol is documented somewhere (and there are > plenty of hackers who've dug into the C64 and C128 ROMs), I don't think > there's a good reason why the 1571 (and other CBM peripherals) can't be > linked up to _any_ computer and the serial bus simulated by bit-banging > on a TTL-level I/O port. > > In fact, isn't there a well-known program to at least read/write disks in > 1541 drives from an MS-DOS box? You're referring to X1541. It will talk to a 1541 via a special cable between the drive and a parallel port. ISTR there is more than one C-64/128 emulator out there that will use any Commodore serial peripheral that's connected that way. You can even hook up a Commodore printer to the drive and talk to it. g. From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Dec 6 20:41:22 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: 68040 cpu needed In-Reply-To: <200012070148.RAA26870@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200012070148.RAA26870@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Something to consider, is that a 68040 or a 68LC040? A lot of the 68040 >based Mac's were not pure 68040 chips. IIRC, it basically meant they were >missing the math coprocessor. Yeah, I know. My Quadra 605 had the 'LC' type without the coprocessor. At this stage, it really doesn't make a difference, as I've not even been able to test the board since getting it because of the damaged CPU that came with it. I'd like to get the full 'RC' type but an 'LC' chip would be ok as long as it's a 33mhz and not a 20 or 25 mhz. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 6 21:40:10 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:29 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Dec 6, 0 11:32:43 pm" Message-ID: <200012070340.TAA12076@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Since the CBM serial bus protocol is documented somewhere (and there are > plenty of hackers who've dug into the C64 and C128 ROMs), I don't think > there's a good reason why the 1571 (and other CBM peripherals) can't be > linked up to _any_ computer and the serial bus simulated by bit-banging > on a TTL-level I/O port. > In fact, isn't there a well-known program to at least read/write disks in > 1541 drives from an MS-DOS box? Star Commander, yes, and the C64S emulator can as well, but they're limited to dealing in .d64s and isolated files. The Commodore filesystem doesn't translate so good with DOS and vice-versa. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If everyone is abnormal, then no one is. ----------------------------------- From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 6 21:23:13 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: Garbage dump computing Message-ID: <149.376T650T2634375optimus@canit.se> A URL which might be useful: http://website.lineone.net/~dustbin2000/ -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "I'm all man underneath my skirt." Boy George From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 6 21:58:07 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: UK relays In-Reply-To: <10012062348.ZM9239@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <857.376T350T2983835optimus@canit.se> Pete Turnbull skrev: >Look for A410, A420, A440, R140 (relatively rare), A540, or R260 because >these are easy to expand and cheap. A 310 is a similar machine, but not >designed for more than 1MB RAM (though you sometimes see them with 3rd >party add-on RAM). The A5000 and 7000 are better but more expensive/less >cheap. The A3xxx series are not designed to be expandable, and the A4000 >is basically just an A3000 in a different box. comp.sys.acorn.hardware is >a good newsgroup to watch. I downloaded the comp.sys.acorn FAQ, but it seems to have dumped info on machines no longer in production. Where may, pray tell, a guide to all Archimedes machines be located nowadays? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Netiquette: it's not just a good idea, there's actually an RFC about it! For the full details, check out . From vaxman at uswest.net Wed Dec 6 15:56:06 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Tue, 5 Dec 2000 THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > > In , on 12/05/00 > > at 06:36 PM, Mike Ford said: > > > > >>In fact, these are absolutely the crappiest storage devices I have ever seen > > >>used on any computer. > > >> > > >>Any challengers for worst storage device? > > > > > > My experience with moving head and moving media technology has not been a > > happy one. > > > > Disks are inherently unreliable due to thier moving media and moving > > heads. Tape too. In many cases, tape heads and media also move. > > You are right, of course. You just cannot beat a chisel and a flat > rock! > - don > Sure you can.... With a hammer! clint From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 7 00:05:37 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20001206164650.094ff46c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: >I carry a leatherman/Gerber type multi tool ($7 at AutoZone and just as >good) and a small aluminum flashlight in a belt holder that I got from The only cheaper one I have been tempted with is a Smith and Wesson. One of the local sporting goods stores (Big 5) is selling at $19.99 on sale from $49. I've seen the one at AutoZone, ditto Harbor Freight tools, and I "might" be willing to say it is similar function, but lets just say its made to fit that $7 selling price. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 7 00:24:27 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: PS2, not the Sony In-Reply-To: <405.376T1800T325525optimus@canit.se> References: <009301c05fc6$010c98e0$c834d986@wkchafauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: >On the topic of CD drives, were there any official IBM drives with a suitable >front for machines with a 5? slot like the PS/2 8085? I am pretty sure one of the 9595 has a CD, but I am not certain. Could be its in a Model 57 and I was planning to swap it into the 9595. One of the serious PS/2 guys, I talked to about 3 months ago is selling hard drives preloaded with some version of Linux/Unix for about $20 incl shipping. I am thinking pretty hard about buying one just to get over the hump and put one of these fine old 9595 back on line. My goal is to get a system functional on my network with both a CD and 2.88 floppy. Mostly I am real tired of too many non working boxes, and plan to thin the herd a bunch in the coming weeks. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 6 23:55:11 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? In-Reply-To: <3A2EB35A.6F569D4B@inc.net> References: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> Message-ID: >> * I know there are Intel, SPARC, and HP PA ports of NeXTStep too, >> but c'mon.. NeXTStep on NeXT.. it's just sacred! :) >> > >Agreed. I think he'll find NeXTstep to be great. The absolutely What is the situation now for acquiring NeXTstep? I remember a few months ago people acting like it was trivial and or free, but now I see copies selling on eBay for $50 or more. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 7 00:47:13 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: 68040 cpu needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Does anyone have an extra 68040 cpu running at 33mhz that >they don't need? I'vd had a LC-575 mainboard here to put in my Color >Classic but it's original CPU came out on it's way to me and a good >portion of the pins are pretty mangled. Take a mechanical pencil that uses a lead about the same size as the pins, and carefully slip the metal barrel of the pencil over the pin and straighten them one at a time. A 33 mhz full 68040 is worth about $25, so tossing one due to a few bent pins isn't very thrifty. If its totally mangled, email me, $25 plus $3.55 shipping in the US. From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Dec 7 00:30:35 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20001207073229.BHCR10690.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebox> I carry a full metric car kit for my Jetta - never need it for the car but for oil changes etc, but some heavier than normal tools have been useful on site. My standard kit: Leatherman Supertool in leather pouch on hip. - I use this a LOT for the blades mainly. Cellphone. Jeweler's screwdriver set Battery operated screwdrivers - two of them Electric drill and LONG bit. Lots of cd's, OS/2 warp, SCO, linux, windows 9x,nt,2k Floppies: Magic 9x boot, Tom's RTBT, Partition Magic, Drive Image, EZdrive, Ghost, Procom Plus for DOS (good for testing serial ports on unix servers). 10baseT test set Full set of serial gender/type benders and christmas tree Serial, 10base10/T crimpers, connectors and pins Several Manual screwdrivers clipboard, pen, sharpie pen External USR 56k modem, cables, adapters, powerpack Univeral power pack and plugs (DC) 600 watt 12vdc to 120vac voltage inverter portable p188, 6gig, 64mb ram. Runs OS/2 v4 plays MP3's in car portable Data General battery-operated dumb terminal Radio Shack 15watt/45watt soldering iron, reel of silver solder, sponge curved hemostats vicegrips shrink-wrap tubing electrical tape scissors wire dykes ti35+ calculator floppy-disk-shaped calculator in floppy box if I forget the above hex, torx, flat bit sets hex driver #1,#2, #3 manual screwdrivers manual flathead drivers car charger for cell phone tape adapter for mp3 player black ballistic nylon Dr's bag canned air paintbrush matches and lighter butane soldering iron wd40 Hoppes #9 gun oil several metal files hacksaw spare mice: PS/2 and serial pair of 'bastard' pliers - mainly for crimping ribbon cable. Multimeter. terminators and T's for 10base2 spare null and patch cables for 10baseT Silver print conductive paint. spare Edison power cables tent - no kidding cal .22 Remington Viper with 500rds in trunk (rarely used ;-0)) RJ11 telephone cable 100' 110vac extension cable GI issue parka spare jacket (in case that cute secretary or passenger gets cold). Outmoded by wife v1.0 (in that cute secretaries/doctors/judges are out). Flashlights (two). One standard, one designed to examine the barrel of a firearm. This is useful when trying to shine a light around a corner - $3.00 at gun show. allen wrenches in metric and standard Keychain has a swiss army knife clone if I really get desperate Magnets yanked from hard disk drives. I use these to magnetize my bits. bag of standard sized screws and mounts work order toys that somehow get in my 'doctor's bag' from time to time as placed by 4yr old step-daughter Milaci have actually come in handy..... brain Wishlist: ethernet diagnostic tool Serial end-to-end test set bandaids parachute proper ground rappeling gear 'notcher' type cutters for modifying sheet-metal parts - where do you get these? 2ghz Althlon notebook with 8hr battery life wireless internet access from wished-for notebook 100mbit networking at the shop/home no more windows than you -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Dec 6 20:18:50 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: 2.88 mb floppy drives In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "Re: 2.88 mb floppy drives" (Dec 7, 0:32) References: <405.376T1800T325525optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10012070218.ZM9366@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 7, 0:32, Iggy Drougge wrote: > On the topic of CD drives, were there any official IBM drives with a suitable > front for machines with a 5? slot like the PS/2 8085? Yes, there's an IBM rebadged Toshiba XM3301 (SCSI) -- I've got one. It has some odd IBM firmware, and doesn't behave quite like an ordinary 3301. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From russ at rbcs.8m.com Thu Dec 7 01:53:29 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: PS2, not the Sony In-Reply-To: Message-ID: the 8595 and 9595 use the same drives as the 8585 and there are drives and faceplates made specifically for these units. Evertime I see one on eBay that starts out at a decent price someone cranks it up to a ridiculous price by auction end and anyone with one for direct sale thinks that IBM Direct is a pricing guide and therefore puts the unit at an outrageous price from the start. I've found, with my 9595, that my best bet is an Adaptec SCSI controller and external cdroms rather than fight for a unit just to make it more factory optional "pretty". I bought 2 4 bay external SCSI drive units - one filled with 2 and a filler and the other with 4 cdroms, for a total $50 on ebay and they've been running fine. Of course the drives are Toshiba 2x caddy types but I've replaced the 0 drive with a tray type 4x scsi to use for cd's I need to switch and the other units are for cd's that need to be available all thetime on my network such as graphics and applications. By the way, for all you PS/2 enthusiasts, I still have a ton of 55SX units to unload for either parts or use as a whole unit. I'm asking $5 each plus shipping and they all have hard drives and memory in them. The memory and drive sizes vary and the bigger ones go first. Of course they are just the main unit and don't have keyboard, mouse or monitor but are complete otherwise. If someone wants more than one they save on shipping as I can pack a couple two or three in one box and it's just a little more per unit over the initial first unit's shipping cost. Anyone in the area of central KY can arrange to have the units delivered or can pick them up themself. I'm going to go through more of my units in a week or so as well and will have 35's and 56's as well - main units only and some may be incomplete to some degree. Of course the 35's are ISA and the 55SX and 56's are MCA bus. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 12:24 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: PS2, not the Sony >On the topic of CD drives, were there any official IBM drives with a suitable >front for machines with a 5? slot like the PS/2 8085? I am pretty sure one of the 9595 has a CD, but I am not certain. Could be its in a Model 57 and I was planning to swap it into the 9595. One of the serious PS/2 guys, I talked to about 3 months ago is selling hard drives preloaded with some version of Linux/Unix for about $20 incl shipping. I am thinking pretty hard about buying one just to get over the hump and put one of these fine old 9595 back on line. My goal is to get a system functional on my network with both a CD and 2.88 floppy. Mostly I am real tired of too many non working boxes, and plan to thin the herd a bunch in the coming weeks. From jpero at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 6 21:02:52 2000 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: minor OT accidents that happened was: Re: 68040 cpu needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20001207075401.HKXP27272.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> > Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 22:47:13 -0800 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Mike Ford > Subject: Re: 68040 cpu needed > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Take a mechanical pencil that uses a lead about the same size as the pins, > and carefully slip the metal barrel of the pencil over the pin and > straighten them one at a time. A 33 mhz full 68040 is worth about $25, so > tossing one due to a few bent pins isn't very thrifty. If its totally > mangled, email me, $25 plus $3.55 shipping in the US. Groan!! Good idea on that mechanical pencil! Few weeks ago, I had to straighten out about 20% of bent pins on a boxed 200 mmx cpu, few of pins are hard crushed against package at sharp angle. I used watch tweezers and small jeweller's screwdriver to undo all that damage. The boxed fan blades were snapped off 4 out of 7. Unbalanced rotor big time. Raided one from P4T (pentium overdrive 133 for socket 4) by peeling off label, pop off the E-clip and transfer the good rotor to 200mmx. Reinstall clip, cover the hole. All fine now. What did that crunch? Loose cpu (my brain wasn't screwed on right that day) in boxful of heavy items such as two cdroms, bigfoot, ibm 540mb scsi. Dropped that box when hand carrying hole ripped open as I stepped heavily off the bus. ;-) Don't worry, these hard drives were turned in by customers for checks and they were still bad and unwarrentied anyway. I only can carry it one handed bec other hand is holding my aucient badly frayed camera bag long past it's lives. Have tiny budget and new decent backpack needed cost over 100cdn. This will change when I have full-time job. I keep myself busy working part-time at two computer shop both reputatable. Also I'm having job planning meetings. This is one of big reasons to get out of under the budget crunch (708 cdn a month) and start the driving lessons. Driver license holder shows big responsibility and freedom to go anywhere. Also more reliable way to get to work in employer's eyes. I'm stuck with untrustworthy bus system. That night bus was 20min late to catch heading home during snow squalls but the roads is still good, no excuses. :-P Whoops, better jump into bed shivering! Cheers, Wizard From russ at rbcs.8m.com Thu Dec 7 01:56:19 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And it's a lot less strain on the heart and wallet when you have the $7 unit either lost or stolen than the higher cost ones and in my personal opinion they are equally functional for my needs and I still have lunch money left after I buy the $7 unit. Don't let me forget to get back with you direct on the 2.88mb floppies Mike. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 12:06 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: What tools do you carry, always >I carry a leatherman/Gerber type multi tool ($7 at AutoZone and just as >good) and a small aluminum flashlight in a belt holder that I got from The only cheaper one I have been tempted with is a Smith and Wesson. One of the local sporting goods stores (Big 5) is selling at $19.99 on sale from $49. I've seen the one at AutoZone, ditto Harbor Freight tools, and I "might" be willing to say it is similar function, but lets just say its made to fit that $7 selling price. From red at bears.org Thu Dec 7 02:24:28 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives In-Reply-To: <20001207012632.GIRA27329.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Dec 2000 jpero@sympatico.ca wrote: > > The IBM UltraStar ES. > > All ibm drives currently in production. Bar none. speedy and utter > reliable. The 2ES disks I've used are as reliable as the original ES disks, but I've been having problems with the 2XP disks. They're drop-dead sexy units, but from my admittedly small sample size of two, I've lost both. r. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 7 02:29:53 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <20001207073229.BHCR10690.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebox> References: Message-ID: >'notcher' type cutters for modifying sheet-metal parts - where do you get Radio shack, its called a nibbling tool. From flo at rdel.co.uk Thu Dec 7 03:16:45 2000 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: RML380Z and exploding sun psus [long and boring] References: Message-ID: <3A2F557D.424F1018@rdel.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > > > Paul Williams wrote: > > > > For the record, my 380Z contains: > > > > 4. Graphics board, feeds four BNC sockets (RGB+sync) > > I assume there's a normal card connected to the bus ribbon cable > (which is the Hi-res card, and is standard) connected by a ribbon > cable to the RGB output board mounted on a bracket holding the BNCs. > That's the normal configuration (and I have info on it). I was talking about the "normal" card; I left out the fact that there was another board between it and the BNCs. > > 6. Another graphics board? Contains PAL modulator, and also feeds > > another monitor socket. > > Hmm... What is on this board. The normal configuration on 80 column > machines was to put a UHF modulator on the bus terminator board I expect you're right. I've only had the briefest of looks, to be honest. > I cna identify most of the boards from the descriptions... Shame about the lack of drawing numbers on the PCBs. From kebabthesheep at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 04:09:07 2000 From: kebabthesheep at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?kebabthesheep?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: RML380Z bits was summat boring about 'sploding psus Message-ID: <20001207100907.19175.qmail@web1608.mail.yahoo.com> --- Paul Williams wrote: > kebabthesheep wrote: > > > > OH - the RML380Z now works fine with it's replacement low-density > > controller :) Both drives light up, make noise and try to do things, > > so I'm a happy bunny :) I'd still like to get the high density > > controller going sometime - but a least now i'm one step closer to > > booting cp/m. > > Have you got a CP/M disk yet, Dave, or is that the remaining step? Yes, I thought that would be confusing just after I pressed 'send' Anyway - I have several teledisk boot images for various versions of cp/m, and a i'm currently looking for an older floppy controller, and some HD disks, so I can write them to floppy. > I ask because I acquired a 380Z over the weekend, and I don't have disks > or manuals either. In fact, I don't have any means of making a 5.25 > disk. Bummer. You'll be wanting a pc with an old 51/4" drive, and old controller you will :) > For the record, my 380Z contains: > > 1. VDU 80/02. 80-column text card. > 2. CPU board, 32K RAM > 3. RAM board, 32K Yep. Got all these. > 4. Graphics board, feeds four BNC sockets (RGB+sync) Ooo! COLOUR graphics? Very posh :) I've only got the composite video one. Don't know if it's colour, cos i've got an old panasonic composite monitor, but i'm sure it'll be monochrome. > 5. I/O board for serial and floppy. PCB number 207-252. > 6. Another graphics board? Contains PAL modulator, and also feeds > another monitor socket. AND! The modulator! Tsk. Nice find sir! > There seems to be a lack of PCB drawing numbers on these boards, so I'm > not sure how to tie up this information with other descriptions posted > previously. > > This machine seems to date from February 1983. Two 5.25 floppies, and > COS 4.0B/M. Yes, I have a spare cpu with that exact version of COS. I'm going to build a website for it - just a few pics, all the data I have, and all the software, I just need to get around to doing it. If/when you get yourself a 51/4" drive and old controller, just drop me a mail, and i'll send you the disk images. Dave. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From kebabthesheep at yahoo.com Thu Dec 7 04:15:16 2000 From: kebabthesheep at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?kebabthesheep?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: RML380Z and exploding sun psus [long and boring] Message-ID: <20001207101516.14054.qmail@web1606.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > The size of the PSU is not what matters here. Most likely you ended up > with an almost dead short across the mains. In which case the fault > current will get to at least several hundred amps... Possibly. It _is_ a beefy psu tho, so it could just have been a cap going. Trouble is, the final screw holding the lid on was made of purest cheesium alloy, and just rounded off. I'll drill the head off at the weekend, and show it to a mate of mine - he spent years repairing/designing/testing switchers for UPS use, so is more of an expert than I. > > I assume you're going to repair it, in which case I'd advise using a > 'series lightbulb' (see, for example, the sci.electronics.repair FAQL) to > limit the current when you power up again. Of course :) > > OH - the RML380Z now works fine with it's replacement low-density > > controller :) Both drives light > > up, make noise and try to do things, so I'm a happy bunny :) I'd > > still like to get the high > > density controller going sometime - but a least now i'm one step > > closer to booting cp/m. > > Excellent. Let me know if you need more information on the hardware side > of this machine -- I have the manual to hand.. > Certainly will :) Dave. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From agraham at ccat.co.uk Thu Dec 7 05:08:12 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: Apricot & G4IDE Message-ID: <00Dec7.110812gmt.46096@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 19:56:14 -0000 > From: "Adrian Graham" > Subject: Weekend's finds > > Hi Folks, > > I don't know if this'll work since I'm posting from home, but > I just thought Woo - it worked :) > My guess is that the DC output is the standard pinout (say for an > external drive), and is +5V and +12V. But I would think the It sure is. > ports. I > would guess (again) that the DC input is +12V, +5V, -12V and > maybe -12V. Pity the guy I got it from is purely a box shifter, ie he parks up at a boot sale and shifts loads of boxes of rubbish from his van! You then have to sift..... Odd that I can find no mention of this machine on the web at all (via google) apart from memory expansion sites and one particular site that told me it was a 386 clone. > Those chips are all standard 4000-series CMOS (the 4040 and 4060 are > counters, I forget what the 4087 is). Drawing out the > schematic should take < 1 hour... I can scan it and mail it to you :) > is some kind of amateur radio/weather (?) analogue-type fax image > decoder, and has nothing to do with modern fax sent over > telephone lines. You're right - I've had 2 replies so far both saying the same thing. > Are there any connectors on the PCB (other than the edge > connector to the ZX81)? No - there must've been another board that plugged into the '81 then this board finished it all off....he might be there again next week so I'll have a good rummage. > ------------------------------ Pete Turnbull: > Did you get a monitor with it? Apricot monitors of that > vintage came in > two types, colour and monchrome, and contained the power > supply for the > machine. What exactly are the connectors on the box? The > ones I remember > had a sort of plstic clip around the monitor video/power connector. It's got the apricot monitor, mono by the looks of things, and I thought the same thing since the back of the machine has a port labelled 'Apricot Monitor connector' as well as another monitor connector. If I'm right in thinking the monitor powers the box then the box is dead :( 'Tis an easy matter to check for voltages on the monitor lines though. > Given the callsign 'G4IDE', I'd expect this is something like > an interface > to a weather fax receiver used by a radio ham. 4th reply saying the same thing, so I've got to find the same bloke and see what else he's got.... cheers both! > ------------------------------ From flo at rdel.co.uk Thu Dec 7 04:55:27 2000 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: RML380Z bits was summat boring about 'sploding psus References: <20001207100907.19175.qmail@web1608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A2F6C9F.B51BB2CE@rdel.co.uk> kebabthesheep wrote: > > I have several teledisk boot images for various versions of cp/m, > and a i'm currently looking for an older floppy controller, and some > HD disks, so I can write them to floppy. Yes, I saw Don Maslin's messages. I guess now would be the time to scavenge my parents' old Amstrad 1640. Who would've thought an old DOS PC could be good for something? (Joke, people, joke) > Ooo! COLOUR graphics? Very posh :) I've only got the composite > video one. Don't know if it's colour, cos i've got an old panasonic > composite monitor, but i'm sure it'll be monochrome. Yes. The TV output is monochrome too, as it is for my 480Zs. From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Dec 7 05:34:19 2000 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough... Message-ID: <001207063419.2020135b@trailing-edge.com> When I was a grad student at Caltech I heard some professors offering some similar worries as much as 10 years ago.... See the full article at http://www.zdnet.com/intweek/stories/news/0,4164,2659964,00.html An excerpt: And then, someone shouted, "Let's put a computer together with all this stuff!" But could they? Could a handful of engineering majors, circa 2000, actually make a computer out of assorted parts? It's a question that has professors tossing and turning at night. It also has many of them rethinking basic college curriculum, trying to prepare a new breed of students for a new economy screaming for high-tech talent. Used to be, engineering majors would come to college fresh from childhoods of tinkering with car engines and taking apart and putting together radios. No more. "Students have never taken a toaster oven apart, certainly never built a radio," said Lynn Abbott, associate professor of computer and electrical engineering at Virginia Tech. "They've never changed the oil in the car, never seem to have gotten their hands dirty with how things work. That has had an impact on how we have to teach the courses." Tim. (who was weaned on big bags of parts from Poly Paks, anxiously ordered from ads in the back of _Radio-Electronics_...) From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Thu Dec 7 06:26:23 2000 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: IBM cash register displays Message-ID: <07E0E649A9C3D411A80A0020350804BD03429E@EXCH002> OK, somewhat off-topic (maybe) and slightly less than the ten year mark (these things are dated '92) but anyway... I've just been given a couple of IBM cash register displays, IBM part 4863. They're dual height, 20-character dot-matrix displays. I was going to pull them apart and just use the display units themselves, but as these things have all sorts of built-in decoding logic in them I thought I'd ask here first... So, has anyone come across these before? I've found the pin connections for the 4-pin connector which they use for comms from the host system (12V, GND, 2 serial I/O lines - I assume one per line on the display) What I don't have is any information on the protocol that the host system uses to talk to these things. IBM defined a 12-bit device protocol which could be used for other devices, but I have no idea if that's what these things use (actually, they may have a character generator on-board, in which case they perhaps can't generate arbritary dot-patterns and so I'm better off just keeping the display units anyway) Long shot, I know, but I thought I'd ask here first... :) cheers Jules From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Thu Dec 7 06:51:21 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: CDC Sabre information In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB38F@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Dec 2000 18:03:20 -0500 Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Grrr... Thanks, John, I forgot how I had that page set up, and > the link I got from the properties was for the thumbnail, > not for the image for which it was a link. The full-sized > picture is indeed at: > > http://members.iglou.com/dougq/p2455/ICS&Cipher.jpg > > This is an FSD 500 (?), and predates Seagate's purchase of > CDC's drive division. Oh, weird, I have exactly the same Cifer front-loading tape drive in my living room, next to a CDC FSD 500 disk drive. My FSD 500 has a blue front panel, though. It's an SMD interface drive, but I have no source for jumper information and I need to change the sector size to suit a Sun host. Anybody know what the interface on the Cifer tape drive is? The drive came with two huge, rubber-sleeved 50-way ribbon cables. I think both cables are required for the interface, so it doesn't look like SCSI... -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Dec 7 07:15:56 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: <735.376T500T714521optimus@canit.se> from Iggy Drougge at "Dec 7, 2000 01:11:10 am" Message-ID: <200012071315.eB7DFu612422@bg-tc-ppp592.monmouth.com> > Tony Duell skrev: > > >> conversion service would leave them S.O.L. for the images, but doesn't > >> everybody with internet access have a modern computer they can use to look > >> at PDFs? > > >No. As an example, I don't. > > >My PC (which is what I use to access the Internet) has an MDA card (text > >only). I run a text-based linux system. > > Don't you have any printer to dump it to? That is the best way to read a PDF > (and the best reason to stay at school). > > >The machines I have with reasonable graphics (PERQs, I2S image displays, > >etc) don't seem to have pdf viewers ported to them... > > LOL, what a shame. The PERQ screen seems to be really well-suited to portrait > pages. > Seems like ghostscript/ghostview should work with PERQ's under Unix for PDF's. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From emu at ecubics.com Thu Dec 7 07:28:17 2000 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: Cipher, was: CDC Sabre information References: Message-ID: <3A2F9071.8050203@ecubics.com> John Honniball wrote: > > Anybody know what the interface on the Cifer tape drive is? > The drive came with two huge, rubber-sleeved 50-way ribbon > cables. I think both cables are required for the > interface, so it doesn't look like SCSI... If it is a cipher, it could be a pertec interface ... (Look if there are four 50 pin connectors on the back) cheers From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Dec 7 07:48:19 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: CDC Sabre information Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB393@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > On Wed, 6 Dec 2000 18:03:20 -0500 Douglas Quebbeman > wrote: > > Grrr... Thanks, John, I forgot how I had that page set up, and > > the link I got from the properties was for the thumbnail, > > not for the image for which it was a link. The full-sized > > picture is indeed at: > > > > http://members.iglou.com/dougq/p2455/ICS&Cipher.jpg > > > > This is an FSD 500 (?), and predates Seagate's purchase of > > CDC's drive division. > > Oh, weird, I have exactly the same Cifer front-loading tape > drive in my living room, next to a CDC FSD 500 disk drive. > My FSD 500 has a blue front panel, though. It's an SMD > interface drive, but I have no source for jumper > information and I need to change the sector size to suit a > Sun host. Yes, the Cipher F880 Microstreamer is a Pertec-interface device. Some of them support 6250bpi, like the Pr1me version shown in my photo, while I have a DEC TS05 version that has only the 1600/3200 densitys. Be advised that my Prime cables must be put on backwards (i.e. the triangle on the connector does NOT go to pin 1/2). YMMV, etc. -dq From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 7 08:25:01 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20001206164650.094ff46c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207082311.032307a0@pc> At 04:04 PM 12/6/00 -0600, Russ Blakeman wrote: >I carry a leatherman/Gerber type multi tool ($7 at AutoZone and just as >good) and a small aluminum flashlight in a belt holder that I got from >Walmart for about $10. I'd never owned a Leatherman-like tool before. I bought a mid-priced, stainless one at Farm & Fleet a while ago. Up until my kids lost it, I questioned its sturdiness. I didn't like the way it cut into my hand when I squeezed the pliers, and the pliers didn't seem strong enough for "real" disassembly work. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 7 08:22:42 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001206134547.01964de8@208.226.86.10> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206152910.029a8910@pc> <20001206204855.25624.qmail@brouhaha.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207082050.032f5ab0@pc> At 01:49 PM 12/6/00 -0600, Chuck wrote: >At 03:29 PM 12/6/2000 -0600, John Foust wrote: >>And the technical difference between silver and gold crap? :-) >>Different dyes? > >No, different elements. One uses aluminum foil and the other gold foil. Aluminum has the unfortunate tendency to oxidize once oxygen permeates(sp?) the plastic or the top seal. This oxidation shows up as "black crud" growing from a crack or scratch. Hmm. And how much plastic has to be scratched off before the foil is exposed, and how wide of a scratch on either Al or Au will blow away data, given the ECC? If a CD gets scratched, oxidation won't happen for a while. Will I notice the scratch before it's too late? Am I mistreating archival CDs in the first place? - John From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Dec 7 09:07:45 2000 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? In-Reply-To: ; from mikeford@socal.rr.com on Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 09:55:11PM -0800 References: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> <3A2EB35A.6F569D4B@inc.net> Message-ID: <20001207100745.A20332@alcor.concordia.ca> On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 09:55:11PM -0800, Mike Ford (mikeford@socal.rr.com) wrote: > >> * I know there are Intel, SPARC, and HP PA ports of NeXTStep too, > >> but c'mon.. NeXTStep on NeXT.. it's just sacred! :) > >> > > > >Agreed. I think he'll find NeXTstep to be great. The absolutely > > What is the situation now for acquiring NeXTstep? I remember a few months > ago people acting like it was trivial and or free, but now I see copies > selling on eBay for $50 or more. A few months ago it was trivial or free if you already owned a license; you'd send your license number to Apple (well, to a company that Apple contracted with) and they'd send you lots of stuff, including NEXTSTEP for the three platforms you *didn't* need, EOF, and even OpenStep in some cases. For folks with black hardware, the license number was the serial number of the machine. This was because NEXTSTEP 3.2 and previous had Y2k problems. Rather than try to fix it all, Apple declared 3.2 and previous unsupported, and gave out 3.3 to fix things. You could still buy it on eBay during that time -- there's a sucker born every minute, after all. The address to which the license/serial number, mailing address, phone number, and version of NEXTSTEP/OpenStep wwould have been sent was . The address appears to still exist, but I'm not sure if the program is still on. -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 7 10:13:36 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207082311.032307a0@pc> References: <3.0.1.16.20001206164650.094ff46c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001207111336.38cfd7ce@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:25 AM 12/7/00 -0600, John wrote: >At 04:04 PM 12/6/00 -0600, Russ Blakeman wrote: >>I carry a leatherman/Gerber type multi tool ($7 at AutoZone and just as >>good) and a small aluminum flashlight in a belt holder that I got from >>Walmart for about $10. > >I'd never owned a Leatherman-like tool before. I bought a >mid-priced, stainless one at Farm & Fleet a while ago. >Up until my kids lost it, I questioned its sturdiness. >I didn't like the way it cut into my hand when I squeezed >the pliers, and the pliers didn't seem strong enough >for "real" disassembly work. > That's why you need a real Leatherman tool or one of the other top quality tools instead of the cheap junk. The cheap ones won't hold an edge on the knives and the screw drivers strip the first tile you use them and they just don't fit together or work properly. I've had my Leatherman for about ten years and it still works fine. Joe From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 7 09:10:28 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always References: <3.0.1.16.20001206164650.094ff46c@mailhost.intellistar.net> <4.3.2.7.0.20001207082311.032307a0@pc> Message-ID: <001201c0605f$d5869320$1192fea9@idcomm.com> The theory is that you're not supposed to use pliers for "real" disassembly work. We all do it, of course, but you're really supposed to use a wrench. Pliers, as the name implies, are supposed to be used for forming and bending. Those really small wrenches that once came in a screwdriver set from Radio Shack are what works nicely for disassembly. Unfortunately, they quickly discontinue any genuinely useful product. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 7:25 AM Subject: RE: What tools do you carry, always > At 04:04 PM 12/6/00 -0600, Russ Blakeman wrote: > >I carry a leatherman/Gerber type multi tool ($7 at AutoZone and just as > >good) and a small aluminum flashlight in a belt holder that I got from > >Walmart for about $10. > > I'd never owned a Leatherman-like tool before. I bought a > mid-priced, stainless one at Farm & Fleet a while ago. > Up until my kids lost it, I questioned its sturdiness. > I didn't like the way it cut into my hand when I squeezed > the pliers, and the pliers didn't seem strong enough > for "real" disassembly work. > > - John > > From jwest at mppw.com Thu Dec 7 09:09:25 2000 From: jwest at mppw.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: manual available for free - pcjr Message-ID: We're moving our offices.... in packing just came across a manual that someone may want. If no one speaks up for it it's going in the trash in a few days. The manual is spiral bound, about 432 pages, and titled "Hands-On BASIC for the IBM PCjr". Also on the cover is "Personal Computer BASIC Self-Tutor" and the IBM logo. The part number appears to be 1502176, ISBN 0-07-049169-0 The manual is free if anyone wants it. Please reply to jlwest@tseinc.com Jay West From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Thu Dec 7 09:11:55 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: 68040 cpu needed (more) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00120709115500.00220@Billbob_Linux> Greetings, fellow denizens of Dumpsterland... ;) On Thursday 07 December 2000 00:47, you wrote: > > Does anyone have an extra 68040 cpu running at 33mhz that > >they don't need? Your LC575 was originally built with a 33MHz 68LC040, which is the low-cost fpu-less version of the chip. It could be replaced with either a 68040 or 68LC040 part, with the full '040 having better performance in some situations. The *significant* advantage (IMO) to using the full '040, is that it enables the machine to run either Linux or NetBSD. Interestingly enough, the 25MHz part seems to be totally capable of overclocking to 33MHz, and with a heatsink, will run cooler at 33MHz than bare at 25Mhz. There is interesting info on overclocking the 68040 on the LC475, Performa 475 and Quadra 605 models at: http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~schrier/475s.html -and- http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~schrier/q605.html I'm planning to do the 'switch' mod described in the former URL. If you need a 25MHz 68LC040 to replace yours, I should have a spare available in about a week... after I'm done upgrading my LC475 so I can load Debian m68k :) -- Bill Layer From menadeau at mediaone.net Thu Dec 7 09:16:57 2000 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206152910.029a8910@pc><20001206204855.25624.qmail@brouhaha.com><4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc><4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20001207082050.032f5ab0@pc> Message-ID: <037b01c06060$c75f1c80$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> The top layer--where the label is silkscreened--is not plastic, but a 30-micron layer of lacquer. It doesn't take much to scratch through it. The plastic layer, through which the laser reads the disc, is 1.2 mm. The reflective layer, which in most CDs is the aluminum recording surface, is only a few angstroms thick. It's easy to see why the average CD is such a fragile storage medium. The best way to avoid scratching CDs is to store them in their cases and never put any weight on them (like leaving books on top of them). BTW, never write on a CD with a felt-tip pen or magic marker. The ink can easily seep through and affect the laser's ability to read the data. Labels are a bad idea, too, as they will cause the disc to spin out of balance. I believe that glass and gold discs are available for archival purposes with guarantees of holding data for 100 years. Michael Nadeau author, The BYTE Guide to CD-ROM ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 9:22 AM Subject: Re: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) > At 01:49 PM 12/6/00 -0600, Chuck wrote: > >At 03:29 PM 12/6/2000 -0600, John Foust wrote: > >>And the technical difference between silver and gold crap? :-) > >>Different dyes? > > > >No, different elements. One uses aluminum foil and the other gold foil. Aluminum has the unfortunate tendency to oxidize once oxygen permeates(sp?) the plastic or the top seal. This oxidation shows up as "black crud" growing from a crack or scratch. > > Hmm. And how much plastic has to be scratched off before the foil is > exposed, and how wide of a scratch on either Al or Au will blow > away data, given the ECC? If a CD gets scratched, oxidation > won't happen for a while. Will I notice the scratch before > it's too late? Am I mistreating archival CDs in the first place? > > - John > > From jtinker at coin.org Thu Dec 7 09:28:06 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always References: <3.0.1.16.20001206164650.094ff46c@mailhost.intellistar.net> <4.3.2.7.0.20001207082311.032307a0@pc> Message-ID: <3A2FAC86.E67EBBF5@coin.org> A swiss army type knife with a phillips driver. The "Tinker" model is my personal favorite. But next to the knife, the single most valuable tool, in my opinion, is the vice-grip style plier. It doesn't have to be vice-grip brand, but the Chinese knock-offs can be horrible, the tolerances so poor that the frustration they produce is worse than not having the tool at all. (I wonder if the Chinese plan for destroying the U.S. from within is to flood us with cheap SKS's and crappy vice-grips?) Although it is not especially useful for computers, the vice-grip is the tool I wish the world had more of. Screw-drivers of course are used more often. But they are almost everywhere, and can be faked when necessary. But the vice-grip is the fundamental opposing thumb writ strong. The greatest feeling of wealth and power that I get from a pair of vice-grips comes when I grab a garfed-up screwhead sideways. It will get you by when nothing else comes close. Besides the obvious, you can rip metal, bend things out of the way, cut heavy wire, and use it as a vice. They also can be used as a general-purpose clamp. How many times have I seen car window cranks faked with a vice-grip? As a derivative, there is a c.b. radio antenna you can buy that uses a vice-grip as the method to attach it to almost anything. I really like to have a well-provisioned toolbox, so you won't see me walking around with only a swiss-army knife and a vice-grip too often. But especially if I don't know what I'm going to encounter, the first tool I make sure to take with me is the vice-grip. -- John Tinker From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Thu Dec 7 09:28:11 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: Star Commander / CCS64 plug In-Reply-To: <200012070340.TAA12076@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200012070340.TAA12076@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <00120709281101.00220@Billbob_Linux> This is one of my favorite programs... > Star Commander, yes, and the C64S emulator can as well, but they're limited > to dealing in .d64s and isolated files. The Commodore filesystem doesn't > translate so good with DOS and vice-versa. Plug #1: As far as utilities written by & for hardware hackers go, The Star Commander by Joe Foster/STA has got to be one of the best. It's a two-panel type file manager in the style of Norton Commander or Midnight Commander. Star Commander however, allows you to treat a Commodore 1540, 1541 or 1571 floppy as if it were a normal A or B floppy on the host system. The CBM floppy drive connects to the host's parallel port via any one of several cables, based on the X1541 concept. The X1541 concept has one major weakness: speed. The X1541 design uses the parallel port as a serial connection, and hence only sends one-bit words. There is at least one other design, that while requiring some modifications to be done to the CBM drive, allows a true parallel data path; 8-bit words. This latter design is significantly faster than the standard X1541 design. Full information on The Star Commander and the various supported transfer cables can be found at: http://sta.c64.org/sc.html Plug #2: CCS64 Emulator by Per Hakan Sundell. This is far and away, the best DOS / Windows emulator for the Commodore64. I have yet to find anything that it could not do, and it's full of extra features (overclock your virtual C-64, etc.). Mr Sundell is a very impressive programmer, as this work alone will show. Homepage for CCS64 is found at: http://www.computerbrains.com/ccs64/ Hope this is interesting to someone. -- Bill Layer Sales Technician +----------------------------------+ Viking Electronics, Inc. 1531 Industrial St. Hudson, WI. 54016 - U.S.A 715.386.8861 ext. 210 +----------------------------------+ "Telecom Solutions for the 21st Century" Powered by Slackware Linux 7.1.0 From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Thu Dec 7 09:35:31 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: Archival CDs In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207082050.032f5ab0@pc> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206152910.029a8910@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20001207082050.032f5ab0@pc> Message-ID: <00120709353102.00220@Billbob_Linux> Hello, can anyone "confirm or deny" this? > Am I mistreating archival CDs in the first place? Supposedly, the US military did a study in the late 1980's to determine the best archival mediums for the long haul. This concerns military secrets and other issues of national security. CDs were originally considered to be the easy winner, but when subjected to the accelerated aging process, it was found that a standard aluminum CD could only be trusted with 100% data integrity for about 35 to 40 years. Most interesting, was the supposed conclusion of the study, which ened up selecting paper punchcards as the ultimate archival medium, lasting a minimum of 300 years when properly stored. Well imagine that. Am I the only one to have heard this story? -- Bill Layer Sales Technician +----------------------------------+ Viking Electronics, Inc. 1531 Industrial St. Hudson, WI. 54016 - U.S.A 715.386.8861 ext. 210 +----------------------------------+ "Telecom Solutions for the 21st Century" Powered by Slackware Linux 7.1.0 From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Thu Dec 7 10:20:53 2000 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: Bytronix B435 disk controller Message-ID: <007b01c06069$ac529620$05247452@dellhare> To: "Nova Nostalgics" I need to get definitive programming information for a Bytronix B435 disk controller, specifically the "block mode" I/O functions. Anybody have information? Bruce bkr@WildHareComputers.com "Novas are forever..." www.SimuLogics.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001207/1590520f/attachment.html From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Thu Dec 7 10:29:38 2000 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: manual available for free - pcjr In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jay, If nobody has spoken for it I'll pay for shipping to Oregon... George Rachor ========================================================= George L. Rachor Jr. george@racsys.rt.rain.com Hillsboro, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com United States of America Amateur Radio : KD7DCX On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Jay West wrote: > We're moving our offices.... in packing just came across a manual that > someone may want. If no one speaks up for it it's going in the trash in a > few days. > > The manual is spiral bound, about 432 pages, and titled "Hands-On BASIC for > the IBM PCjr". Also on the cover is "Personal Computer BASIC Self-Tutor" and > the IBM logo. The part number appears to be 1502176, ISBN 0-07-049169-0 > > The manual is free if anyone wants it. Please reply to jlwest@tseinc.com > > Jay West > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 7 10:31:08 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: Archival CDs References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206152910.029a8910@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20001207082050.032f5ab0@pc> <00120709353102.00220@Billbob_Linux> Message-ID: <003401c0606b$47c16e00$1192fea9@idcomm.com> That sounds to me like what was determined back then about "WORM" technology, which, BTW, was used in the F-16, but I never heard it applied to CD's. WORM media used an organic emulsion which, under the right circumstances could deteriorate over long periods. I'm not convinced that the encapsulated aluminum-film CD's we use today are subject to those same concerns. Of course, I'm not certain the story you heard is the same one I heard, either. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Layer" To: Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 8:35 AM Subject: Archival CDs > Hello, can anyone "confirm or deny" this? > > > Am I mistreating archival CDs in the first place? > > Supposedly, the US military did a study in the late 1980's to determine the > best archival mediums for the long haul. This concerns military secrets and > other issues of national security. CDs were originally considered to be the > easy winner, but when subjected to the accelerated aging process, it was > found that a standard aluminum CD could only be trusted with 100% data > integrity for about 35 to 40 years. > > Most interesting, was the supposed conclusion of the study, which ened up > selecting paper punchcards as the ultimate archival medium, lasting a minimum > of 300 years when properly stored. Well imagine that. > > Am I the only one to have heard this story? > > -- > Bill Layer > Sales Technician > > > +----------------------------------+ > Viking Electronics, Inc. > 1531 Industrial St. > Hudson, WI. 54016 - U.S.A > 715.386.8861 ext. 210 > > +----------------------------------+ > > "Telecom Solutions for the 21st Century" > Powered by Slackware Linux 7.1.0 > > > From russ at rbcs.8m.com Thu Dec 7 11:13:04 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <3A2FAC86.E67EBBF5@coin.org> Message-ID: All of my "have to be excellent quality" tools including my vise type pliers are Sears Craftsman. This way when I break them they give me a new one and I can depend on them to be reliable as well . I use my vise grip pliers for a multitude of things, especially when I'm doing repairs on the big iron printers such as IBM 5224/5225's and when I have to grab and hold the feed shaft on an IBM 6400 (also HP LP/Linejet and Printronics look alikes) to be able to put that pain in the butt snap ring on the end of the shaft. Sure with the Craftsman tools I need to inventory my tools better when I finish a job but I have to anyway as it really sucks to leave a 6" phillips laying in the carriage unit of a high speed cabinet sized line printer. Tends to ruin the screwdriver and your reputation as a reliable repair tech. I got into the habit of self inventory before testing when I worked around jets in the USAF anyway. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John Tinker Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 9:28 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What tools do you carry, always A swiss army type knife with a phillips driver. The "Tinker" model is my personal favorite. But next to the knife, the single most valuable tool, in my opinion, is the vice-grip style plier. It doesn't have to be vice-grip brand, but the Chinese knock-offs can be horrible, the tolerances so poor that the frustration they produce is worse than not having the tool at all. (I wonder if the Chinese plan for destroying the U.S. from within is to flood us with cheap SKS's and crappy vice-grips?) Although it is not especially useful for computers, the vice-grip is the tool I wish the world had more of. Screw-drivers of course are used more often. But they are almost everywhere, and can be faked when necessary. But the vice-grip is the fundamental opposing thumb writ strong. The greatest feeling of wealth and power that I get from a pair of vice-grips comes when I grab a garfed-up screwhead sideways. It will get you by when nothing else comes close. Besides the obvious, you can rip metal, bend things out of the way, cut heavy wire, and use it as a vice. They also can be used as a general-purpose clamp. How many times have I seen car window cranks faked with a vice-grip? As a derivative, there is a c.b. radio antenna you can buy that uses a vice-grip as the method to attach it to almost anything. I really like to have a well-provisioned toolbox, so you won't see me walking around with only a swiss-army knife and a vice-grip too often. But especially if I don't know what I'm going to encounter, the first tool I make sure to take with me is the vice-grip. -- John Tinker From russ at rbcs.8m.com Thu Dec 7 11:14:54 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <001201c0605f$d5869320$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Jensen tools still sells all the good and useful tools that no one else stocks anymore. The kind you are talking about are basically an ignition wrench set and my Jensen set has outlived my Sears set in that my Sears set has had wrenches replaced 2 or 3 times now and the Jensens are still like new. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 9:10 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What tools do you carry, always The theory is that you're not supposed to use pliers for "real" disassembly work. We all do it, of course, but you're really supposed to use a wrench. Pliers, as the name implies, are supposed to be used for forming and bending. Those really small wrenches that once came in a screwdriver set from Radio Shack are what works nicely for disassembly. Unfortunately, they quickly discontinue any genuinely useful product. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Foust" To: Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 7:25 AM Subject: RE: What tools do you carry, always > At 04:04 PM 12/6/00 -0600, Russ Blakeman wrote: > >I carry a leatherman/Gerber type multi tool ($7 at AutoZone and just as > >good) and a small aluminum flashlight in a belt holder that I got from > >Walmart for about $10. > > I'd never owned a Leatherman-like tool before. I bought a > mid-priced, stainless one at Farm & Fleet a while ago. > Up until my kids lost it, I questioned its sturdiness. > I didn't like the way it cut into my hand when I squeezed > the pliers, and the pliers didn't seem strong enough > for "real" disassembly work. > > - John > > From russ at rbcs.8m.com Thu Dec 7 11:18:10 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Exactly - radio Shack or Jensen tools. Some suppiers still even have chassis punches too and of course another important thing is a swiss file set to trim up after the nibbler is done. I've had Pakistani sets from Big Lots and expesive sets from both Jensen and Sears and either way they all work the same. All Electronics has a swiss file set that is about $4 for the whole set and they work extremely well, especially if you need to burnish relay contacts. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Mike Ford Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 2:30 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What tools do you carry, always >'notcher' type cutters for modifying sheet-metal parts - where do you get Radio shack, its called a nibbling tool. From russ at rbcs.8m.com Thu Dec 7 11:21:08 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <20001207073229.BHCR10690.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebox> Message-ID: I have a similar set of combined metric/SAE that I bought for my Ranger and it works better on site jobs too. It's made by Great Neck and I bought it at AutoZone one day when my AeroStar threw a water pump and I was 60 miles from my regular tools. It's been one of the best tool sets I've bought and it takes the abuse I put it through on the vehicles and the heavy machinery. The case is nice too in that I can slip it into my manual bag and carry it over my shoulder. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of THETechnoid@home.com Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 12:31 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What tools do you carry, always I carry a full metric car kit for my Jetta - never need it for the car but for oil changes etc, but some heavier than normal tools have been useful on site. My standard kit: Leatherman Supertool in leather pouch on hip. - I use this a LOT for the blades mainly. Cellphone. Jeweler's screwdriver set Battery operated screwdrivers - two of them Electric drill and LONG bit. Lots of cd's, OS/2 warp, SCO, linux, windows 9x,nt,2k Floppies: Magic 9x boot, Tom's RTBT, Partition Magic, Drive Image, EZdrive, Ghost, Procom Plus for DOS (good for testing serial ports on unix servers). 10baseT test set Full set of serial gender/type benders and christmas tree Serial, 10base10/T crimpers, connectors and pins Several Manual screwdrivers clipboard, pen, sharpie pen External USR 56k modem, cables, adapters, powerpack Univeral power pack and plugs (DC) 600 watt 12vdc to 120vac voltage inverter portable p188, 6gig, 64mb ram. Runs OS/2 v4 plays MP3's in car portable Data General battery-operated dumb terminal Radio Shack 15watt/45watt soldering iron, reel of silver solder, sponge curved hemostats vicegrips shrink-wrap tubing electrical tape scissors wire dykes ti35+ calculator floppy-disk-shaped calculator in floppy box if I forget the above hex, torx, flat bit sets hex driver #1,#2, #3 manual screwdrivers manual flathead drivers car charger for cell phone tape adapter for mp3 player black ballistic nylon Dr's bag canned air paintbrush matches and lighter butane soldering iron wd40 Hoppes #9 gun oil several metal files hacksaw spare mice: PS/2 and serial pair of 'bastard' pliers - mainly for crimping ribbon cable. Multimeter. terminators and T's for 10base2 spare null and patch cables for 10baseT Silver print conductive paint. spare Edison power cables tent - no kidding cal .22 Remington Viper with 500rds in trunk (rarely used ;-0)) RJ11 telephone cable 100' 110vac extension cable GI issue parka spare jacket (in case that cute secretary or passenger gets cold). Outmoded by wife v1.0 (in that cute secretaries/doctors/judges are out). Flashlights (two). One standard, one designed to examine the barrel of a firearm. This is useful when trying to shine a light around a corner - $3.00 at gun show. allen wrenches in metric and standard Keychain has a swiss army knife clone if I really get desperate Magnets yanked from hard disk drives. I use these to magnetize my bits. bag of standard sized screws and mounts work order toys that somehow get in my 'doctor's bag' from time to time as placed by 4yr old step-daughter Milaci have actually come in handy..... brain Wishlist: ethernet diagnostic tool Serial end-to-end test set bandaids parachute proper ground rappeling gear 'notcher' type cutters for modifying sheet-metal parts - where do you get these? 2ghz Althlon notebook with 8hr battery life wireless internet access from wished-for notebook 100mbit networking at the shop/home no more windows than you -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From harrison at timharrison.com Thu Dec 7 11:31:27 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: RS/6000 needs to be rescued. Message-ID: Anyone in the Yonkers/NY area want an RS/6000 box? The info I have is spotty at best right now, but here's the stuff: If you're interested, please contact me directly, and I'll pass on the information. To: Tim Harrison Subject: Re: You want more boxes? >On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Dr Warren Kumari wrote: > >> I know of a place that is getting rid of an RS6000 (bout the size of >> a side-by-side refrigerator). Are you interested? It is now in great >> shape, and is missing some stuff, but is still kinda cool. It would >> require a fair number of people getting it o\into something like a >> u-haul... Oh, it would also make a killer 19" enclosure! >What kind of cost is involved (read: do they want money for it)? Free, free, free.... Lug it away and it's yours..... It's REALLY big and heavy.... And Says IBM... And Experimental Tokenring Router... The bottom has a BIG UPS... Runs on 208V... Had a +- 1Gb SCSI drive.... Lots of Token ring ports.... Missing a processor or two... and s front panel... Has the BIG steel ears to bolt it down.... Perdy.... ---------------------------------------------------------- Warren Kumari Lead Network Engineer Register.com ----------------------------------------------------------- Build a man a fire, and he's warm for the rest of the evening. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life. -- Tim. Geek. harrison@timharrison.com EOF From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 7 11:21:48 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough... In-Reply-To: <001207063419.2020135b@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: > "Students have never taken a toaster oven apart, > certainly never built a radio," said Lynn Abbott, My own experience is that the engineers don't build anything themselves in most jobs, unless they are making something for themselves. Products get built by the techs, all the soldering, wire wrap etc., even on prototypes. I like to tinker, but haven't found anybody that wants to pay me to do it. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 7 11:35:25 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:30 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? In-Reply-To: <20001207100745.A20332@alcor.concordia.ca> References: ; from mikeford@socal.rr.com on Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 09:55:11PM -0800 <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> <3A2EB35A.6F569D4B@inc.net> Message-ID: >A few months ago it was trivial or free if you already owned a >license; you'd send your license number to Apple (well, to a company >The address to which the license/serial number, mailing address, phone >number, and version of NEXTSTEP/OpenStep wwould have been sent was >. The address appears to still exist, but I'm not >sure if the program is still on. Anybody have a "spare" serial number? I know I will dig up some NeXT machine eventually to play with, but I don't want to miss out on the software if I can still get it. From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Dec 7 11:39:09 2000 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? In-Reply-To: ; from mikeford@socal.rr.com on Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 09:35:25AM -0800 References: ; <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> <3A2EB35A.6F569D4B@inc.net> <20001207100745.A20332@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <20001207123909.D20332@alcor.concordia.ca> On Thu, Dec 07, 2000 at 09:35:25AM -0800, Mike Ford (mikeford@socal.rr.com) wrote: > >A few months ago it was trivial or free if you already owned a > >license; you'd send your license number to Apple (well, to a company > > >The address to which the license/serial number, mailing address, phone > >number, and version of NEXTSTEP/OpenStep wwould have been sent was > >. The address appears to still exist, but I'm not > >sure if the program is still on. > > Anybody have a "spare" serial number? I know I will dig up some NeXT > machine eventually to play with, but I don't want to miss out on the > software if I can still get it. Before people start jumping in, keep in mind that a serial number can be used *once*. If you let someone else use your machine's serial number to obtain NEXTSTEP, that means you won't be able to get it yourself. (It's still commercial software, by the way -- you might want to be careful requesting same on large, public mailing lists. Not that *I* care, but there's usually someone that does.) -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 7 10:35:07 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: Epson QX-16 needs new home Message-ID: If you are interested, please reply directly to the original sender. Reply-to: hogman@newulmtel.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 08:33:42 -0600 From: Darwin Stresemann Subject: Obsolete computer Hi: Ran across your site, and might have something you can use. I have an Epson QX-16 computer (CPU, Monitor, and Keyboard, plus virtually all of the original documentation), and am trying to find a home for it. Please let me know if you can use it. If not, maybe you know of someone who can. Thanks, Darwin Stresemann New Ulm, MN 56073 hogman@newulmtel.net Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 7 11:46:46 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <3A2FAC86.E67EBBF5@coin.org> Message-ID: > A swiss army type knife with a phillips driver. The "Tinker" model is my ^^^^ AARRRGGGHHHH! > personal favorite. > > But next to the knife, the single most valuable tool, in my opinion, is the > vice-grip style plier. It doesn't have to be vice-grip brand, but the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ yes, it does! > Chinese knock-offs can be horrible, the tolerances so poor that the > frustration they produce is worse than not having the tool at all. (I wonder > if the Chinese plan for destroying the U.S. from within is to flood us with > cheap SKS's and crappy vice-grips?) Back in the 70s, when I was in Honda car repair, I used good tools. Had ALMOST everything that Snap-On had in metrics, MAC for open ends, and for Sears Craftsman, only those made before 1970. But now, I use cheap tools. I go to Harbor Freight on the way home from Foothill. Sometimes drive up to the Vallejo store. Nevertheless, there are TWO, and only two tools where I still will absolutely NOT substitute. Those two are Vise-Grips (#5WR), and VICTORINOX swiss army knives. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Dec 7 11:58:30 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <037b01c06060$c75f1c80$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: <20001207175055.OYQN10690.femail1.sdc1.sfba.home.com@homebox> In <037b01c06060$c75f1c80$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau>, on 12/07/00 at 12:58 PM, "Michael Nadeau" said: >I believe that glass and gold discs are available for archival purposes >with guarantees of holding data for 100 years I too have heard that glass is the most reliable and stable media. Makes sense. It is hard to scratch and not nearly so permiable as plastic. If you expose a standard cd to solvent, it will become very brittle. regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 7 10:47:53 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207082050.032f5ab0@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: > Hmm. And how much plastic has to be scratched off before the foil is > exposed, and how wide of a scratch on either Al or Au will blow > away data, given the ECC? If a CD gets scratched, oxidation > won't happen for a while. Will I notice the scratch before > it's too late? Am I mistreating archival CDs in the first place? Speaking of a witch, what's that method I heard about a long time ago whereby you can sand out the scratches on a music CD to make it not skip anymore? Something about using a real fine abrasive element? Is this possible? One of my favourite CDs skips terribly on one track and it really pisses me off, especially when I'm supposed to be mellowing out. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 7 10:51:45 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <037b01c06060$c75f1c80$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Michael Nadeau wrote: > BTW, never write on a CD with a felt-tip pen or magic marker. The ink > can easily seep through and affect the laser's ability to read the > data. Labels are a bad idea, too, as they will cause the disc to spin > out of balance. So how are we supposed to label them, buy a 30-micron layer lacquer machine? :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 7 10:56:40 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > I like to tinker, but haven't found anybody that wants to pay me to do > it. It's called "inventions and patents". Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 7 02:56:38 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: UK relays In-Reply-To: "Iggy Drougge" "Re: UK relays" (Dec 7, 4:58) References: <857.376T350T2983835optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <10012070856.ZM9522@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 7, 4:58, Iggy Drougge wrote: > I downloaded the comp.sys.acorn FAQ, but it seems to have dumped info on > machines no longer in production. Where may, pray tell, a guide to all > Archimedes machines be located nowadays? I've not read the Acorn FAQ for a while, but I have a copy dated 1996 which says it was (is?) maintained by Philip Banks, and he had a machine list on his server. Some of the questions do relate to the older machines (the bits about video, for example, include appropriate information). The machines I listed -- A310, A4xx, A540, R260 -- are mostly 8MHz and 12MHz-25MHz Arm2/Arm3 machines, originally with RISC OS 2 but usually found with RISC OS 3.1 nowadays. A quick look through it suggests that my old copy, at least, contains a fair amount of relevant information; I can mail it to you if you like. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu Thu Dec 7 12:16:09 2000 From: brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu (Brian Harrington) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4099569.3185183769@[172.18.201.105]> --On Thursday, December 7, 2000 8:47 AM -0800 Sellam Ismail wrote: > Speaking of a witch, what's that method I heard about a long time ago > whereby you can sand out the scratches on a music CD to make it not skip > anymore? Something about using a real fine abrasive element? > > Is this possible? One of my favourite CDs skips terribly on one track and > it really pisses me off, especially when I'm supposed to be mellowing out. Toothpaste, believe it or not, works wonders. I've used regular Crest on a couple of occasions to salvage CDs that got caught when the tray closed. -- Brian -- Brian Harrington Digital Knowledge Center The Johns Hopkins University brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu From menadeau at mediaone.net Thu Dec 7 12:18:56 2000 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) References: Message-ID: <057801c0607a$2bfdbde0$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Some people label by writing close to the hub away from the recording area. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 11:51 AM Subject: Re: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) > On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > BTW, never write on a CD with a felt-tip pen or magic marker. The ink > > can easily seep through and affect the laser's ability to read the > > data. Labels are a bad idea, too, as they will cause the disc to spin > > out of balance. > > So how are we supposed to label them, buy a 30-micron layer lacquer > machine? > > :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Dec 7 12:26:33 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB39B@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > BTW, never write on a CD with a felt-tip pen or magic marker. The ink > > can easily seep through and affect the laser's ability to read the > > data. Labels are a bad idea, too, as they will cause the disc to spin > > out of balance. > > So how are we supposed to label them, buy a 30-micron layer lacquer > machine? Yeah, Sam, I'm with you... I use a Sharpie when I'm in a hurry and I don't need it to look pretty, otherwise I use a type 'S' Staedtler Lumocolor 318, black. -dq From menadeau at mediaone.net Thu Dec 7 12:28:52 2000 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) References: Message-ID: <057c01c0607b$8d091340$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> I believe someone used to sell a kit to remove minor scratches, but I can't vouch for its effectiveness. I think places like Radio Shack still sell cleaning kits; try one of those to see if it helps with your skipping problem. I would not try to rub out scratches by hand unless you were truly desperate. While you might remove the scratch, you will likely create unevenness on the disc's surface that might affect the drive's ability to read the refracted light. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 11:47 AM Subject: Re: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) > On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: > > > Hmm. And how much plastic has to be scratched off before the foil is > > exposed, and how wide of a scratch on either Al or Au will blow > > away data, given the ECC? If a CD gets scratched, oxidation > > won't happen for a while. Will I notice the scratch before > > it's too late? Am I mistreating archival CDs in the first place? > > Speaking of a witch, what's that method I heard about a long time ago > whereby you can sand out the scratches on a music CD to make it not skip > anymore? Something about using a real fine abrasive element? > > Is this possible? One of my favourite CDs skips terribly on one track and > it really pisses me off, especially when I'm supposed to be mellowing out. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Dec 7 12:34:16 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Speaking of a witch, what's that method I heard about a long time ago > whereby you can sand out the scratches on a music CD to make it not skip > anymore? Something about using a real fine abrasive element? > > Is this possible? One of my favourite CDs skips terribly on one track and > it really pisses me off, especially when I'm supposed to be mellowing out. > Have you tried a green marking pen? *gd&r* g. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Thu Dec 7 12:38:59 2000 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: <20001207.123859.-631363.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Thu, 07 Dec 2000 13:16:09 -0500 Brian Harrington writes: > --On Thursday, December 7, 2000 8:47 AM -0800 Sellam Ismail > wrote: > > > Speaking of a witch, what's that method I heard about a long time > > ago whereby you can sand out the scratches on a music CD to make it > > not skip anymore? Something about using a real fine abrasive element? > > > > Is this possible? One of my favourite CDs skips terribly on one > > track and it really pisses me off, especially when I'm supposed to be > > mellowing out. > > Toothpaste, believe it or not, works wonders. I've used regular > Crest on a couple of occasions to salvage CDs that got caught when the > tray closed. I've used furniture wax way back when-- I was able to read unreadable CD-ROM's after spraying and polishing. Don't know how well this works on audio CD's. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 7 13:12:25 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207082050.032f5ab0@pc> (message from John Foust on Thu, 07 Dec 2000 08:22:42 -0600) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206152910.029a8910@pc> <20001206204855.25624.qmail@brouhaha.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20001207082050.032f5ab0@pc> Message-ID: <20001207191225.8282.qmail@brouhaha.com> Chuck wrote: > No, different elements. One uses aluminum foil and the other gold > foil. Aluminum has the unfortunate tendency to oxidize once oxygen > permeates(sp?) the plastic or the top seal. This oxidation shows up as > "black crud" growing from a crack or scratch. John wrote: > Hmm. And how much plastic has to be scratched off before the foil is > exposed, and how wide of a scratch on either Al or Au will blow > away data, given the ECC? If a CD gets scratched, oxidation > won't happen for a while. Will I notice the scratch before > it's too late? Am I mistreating archival CDs in the first place? On a standard CD or CD-R, the data surface is actually on the *top* side of the disk, covered by a thin layer of lacquer and the silkscreened label. Scratches to the bottom of the disc are unlikely to cause problems, because the laser is focused through the disk onto the reflective layer near the top. Scratches on the top of the disk are much more likely to cause problems. The ECC can almost always handle small radial scratches. Big scratches, or scratches at an angle further from radial (so that it damages along a track) will cause data loss. Oxygen seeps through the lacquer and will eventually oxidize the aluminimum. This won't happen with gold CDRs. Scratches in the top can help oxygen seep in more quickly. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 7 13:17:04 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <037b01c06060$c75f1c80$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> (menadeau@mediaone.net) References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001206152910.029a8910@pc><20001206204855.25624.qmail@brouhaha.com><4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc><4.3.2.7.0.20001206093657.0219c840@pc> <4.3.2.7.0.20001207082050.032f5ab0@pc> <037b01c06060$c75f1c80$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: <20001207191704.8332.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Michael Nadeau" wrote: > I believe that glass and gold discs are available for archival purposes with > guarantees of holding data for 100 years. I haven't seen any glass CD-Rs. Glass discs are used for mastering pressed CDs, but are very fragile. You wouldn't want to use them for archival data. CD-Rs use a polycarbonate substrate just like CDs. CD-Rs with a gold reflective layer are believed to offer 100 year data retention when stored properly, and there are published white papers and reports on the test methods that established this figure. However, AFAIK *NOONE* will guarantee a disc for anywhere near that long. It is possible (and the Kodak white paper mentions) that there may be unknown failure modes in long-term storage that do not occur in accelerated aging tests. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 7 13:20:49 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: (message from Sellam Ismail on Thu, 7 Dec 2000 08:51:45 -0800 (PST)) References: Message-ID: <20001207192049.8377.qmail@brouhaha.com> On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Michael Nadeau wrote: > BTW, never write on a CD with a felt-tip pen or magic marker. The ink > can easily seep through and affect the laser's ability to read the > data. Labels are a bad idea, too, as they will cause the disc to spin > out of balance. Sellam Ismail wrote: > So how are we supposed to label them, buy a 30-micron layer lacquer > machine? Some inks will not harm the lacquer. It is reported that the Sanford Sharpie markers are in this category. Some CD-R vendors claim that their discs have a top layer to protect the data. I'm not sure whether they're really doing anything special, or whether this is simply a "marketing breakthrough" description of the lacquer. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Dec 7 11:37:37 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <3A2FAC86.E67EBBF5@coin.org> References: <3.0.1.16.20001206164650.094ff46c@mailhost.intellistar.net> <4.3.2.7.0.20001207082311.032307a0@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001207113429.01969990@208.226.86.10> At 09:28 AM 12/7/2000 -0600, you wrote: >But next to the knife, the single most valuable tool, in my opinion, is the >vice-grip style plier. Then perhaps you want the Leatherman "Crunch" tool. Its a Leatherman tool with a built in vice grip pliers. To John's comment about comfort the Leatherman "Wave" is very comfortable to my hand and my "essentials" stack consists of those two tools and flashlight. I also consider my Handspring Visor with its database of DEC module numbers and disk drive numbers to be quite valuable at auctions when I'm wondering what exactly something is. --Chuck From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Dec 7 13:46:28 2000 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? In-Reply-To: ; from mikeford@socal.rr.com on Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 09:55:11PM -0800 References: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> <3A2EB35A.6F569D4B@inc.net> Message-ID: <20001207114628.A1244@loomcom.com> On Wed, Dec 06, 2000 at 09:55:11PM -0800, Mike Ford wrote: > >> * I know there are Intel, SPARC, and HP PA ports of NeXTStep too, > >> but c'mon.. NeXTStep on NeXT.. it's just sacred! :) > >> > > > >Agreed. I think he'll find NeXTstep to be great. The absolutely > > What is the situation now for acquiring NeXTstep? I remember a few months > ago people acting like it was trivial and or free, but now I see copies > selling on eBay for $50 or more. I'll publically announce (until such time as I get a cease-and-desist order) that I'd be happy to make a copy of any of the following CD's for the cost of shipping and blank CD-R media. I consider them to be abandonware, and I'm sick of people not being able to get their hands on fun old non-revenue-producing software. I have: * NeXTSTEP 3.3 for Intel/NeXT hardware (1 CD) * NeXTSTEP DEVELOPER 3.3 for Intel/NeXT hardware (1 CD) * NeXT Enterprise Object Framework 1.1 for Intel/NeXT hardware (1 CD) * NeXTTIME 1.0 (the reverse engineered QuickTime for NeXT) (1 CD) Contact me off-list if you would like any of these. Again, the price is free + cost of blank media + cost of shipping to your address. -Seth (sethm@loomcom.com) From russ at rbcs.8m.com Thu Dec 7 13:56:43 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: Items I need to get rid of Message-ID: I have (at the moment) two items that need to go for what I have invested in them... Book: Tandy TRS-80 Color Computer 2 - Going Ahead With Extended Color BASIC 216 ppgs, paperback, very good condition $3.00 plus postage Software & Book: Corel Photo-Paint 5 for Windows 3.1, 95, 98, etc. Sealed package contains user manual and 3.5" floppies. Never opened. $3.00 plus postage Hardware: Special 64 pin SIMM modules for NCR MCA machine - set of 6. Can't remember if they came from a 386 or 486 machine but anyone with NCR background knows if they need them or not. Each card is marked with p/n 1500010888 (also listed as 150-0010888)and I belive they may be 8 mb each. There is a picture of one of them at http://members.nbci.com/pooterfixer/ncr64pin.bmp All 6 are light. $2.00 plus postage Hardware: Suncom 2 port game card - 8 bit ISA slot card with a simple 2 dip switches to turn each port on or off. Picture at http://members.nbci.com/pooterfixer/suncom2.bmp $2.00 plus postage Mailing would be from central KY, zip 42726 and I'm sure that any of these would be very inexpensive to mail as they are all under 2 lbs. Drop me a direct email if interested - first come, first served. From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Thu Dec 7 13:59:53 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <057c01c0607b$8d091340$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> References: <057c01c0607b$8d091340$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: <0012071359530A.00333@Billbob_Linux> I've had luck fixing scratched CDs by two methods: 1) Toothpaste - the all-purpose light abraisive. 2) Novus #2 plastic polish - more expensive, and not as nice smelling, but a more effective polish for heavy scratches. My bottle of Novus #2 has saved my buying at least three replacement faceshields over the years, for my Shoei RF108V helmet. Time to replace the helmet now. -- Bill Layer Sales Technician From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Dec 7 14:22:09 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: Star Commander / CCS64 plug In-Reply-To: <00120709281101.00220@Billbob_Linux> from Bill Layer at "Dec 7, 0 09:28:11 am" Message-ID: <200012072022.MAA09392@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Star Commander, yes, and the C64S emulator can as well, but they're limited > > to dealing in .d64s and isolated files. The Commodore filesystem doesn't > > translate so good with DOS and vice-versa. > Plug #2: CCS64 Emulator by Per Hakan Sundell. This is far and away, the best > DOS / Windows emulator for the Commodore64. I have yet to find anything that > it could not do, and it's full of extra features (overclock your virtual > C-64, etc.). Mr Sundell is a very impressive programmer, as this work alone > will show. Homepage for CCS64 is found at: Not CCS64, but C64S -- one of the earliest emulators. C64S itself is quite good in its own way -- it is the only emulator that can send sound to the internal PC speaker, and it is the only emulator that can talk to serial devices using an X1541 cable. It also runs well on a 386 since it was written in assembly by hand. Very few emulators nowadays can do any of these feats, let alone all three. But CCS64 is also very good. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Philosophy will clip an angel's wings. -- John Keats ----------------------- From sean at techcare.com Thu Dec 7 14:29:44 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? References: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> <015a01c05fce$b8ff1380$0200a8c0@marvin> <00f201c05fe4$fb749e40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> <026301c05fe7$e5f50ca0$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <02b801c0608c$6f704310$0c00000a@techcare.com> I don't recall seeing anyone reply to this on-list, so here goes... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Gregory" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 7:51 PM Subject: Re: NEXTcube, now what? > > > > OK I opened it up. Everything inside has been disconnected. > > The main board seems to be missing all the RAM and cache. > > > > Did NEXT put RAM on the MB like Apple did? > > > > IIRC, the Cubes used 30 pin non-parity SIMMs, either 1M or 4M, in banks of > 4. Each bank has to have the same type of RAM. The memory is auto-detected > by the OS; no jumpers to set. Yeah, you can put either non-parity or parity 30 pinn SIMMS in the Cube (since it doesn't care about parity). I think the maximum is 32 megs. There is no onboard RAM AFAIK (at least on the 68030 Cubes; I assume it is the same for the 68040 series). > > The second board is also missing RAM and has a large I860 > > chip and RAMDAC on it with another connector in the center > > with nothing on it. > > > > I don't know what this second board is; it's not related to the mainboard. > The Cube has everything on one mainboard. Maybe someone else can recognize > it from the description. >From your description, this is a NeXTDimension accelerated 24-bit color board. Nice find! The connector in the center was for a real-time MPEG compression board that NeXT never really managed to get quite right (apparently the chip they were trying to use neve really worked correctly and there were some heat problems involved as well). I really have no idea what sort of memory this takes. You'll need a NeXT color monitor and cable to use this as well. > > Any sites showing the internals of a CUBE? If you go to http://www.obsolyte.com, there is a page about NeXT equipment with some great links on the bottom of it. > > There is a square air filter? Where does this go? > > Not sure; best guess, either in front of the fan, or behind the MO disk. > The NeXT's drew air from the front of the system (through the vents and the > MO drive aperture), over the mainboard, and out the fan at the back of the > case. Dust drawn into the MO drive by this airflow is a major reason for > those drives to fail. Many just need a good cleaning. This was a filter that NeXT sold in an attempt to solve optical drive problems caused by the fact that dust is sucked in through the optical drive slot and ends up messing up the optical drive. If yours doesnt work, it may need a cleaning, as suggested. > > If the drive is a OM then why did I only get CD's ? > > > > In later years, NeXT switched definitively to CDs, and it became very hard > to find software on MO disk. Probably the previous owner got an OS upgrade > kit that came on CD, and lost the MO carts with the earlier OS revs on it. This could be plausible. Typically what you would do is boot up the system with a floppy and then load off of an external CD-ROM. I don't think the OS CD-ROMs are bootable (I wish! Then I could install 3.3 on my Cube with no floppy). If you have a floppy drive, you'll be set with any old SCSI CD-ROM that you can hook up. The NeXT doesn't want anything odd like 512 byte sectors. > > There seems to be a cut-out in the grill work above the OM > > is this a door for the floppy mentioned in the manual or > > just a cut-out for a possible floppy? > > > > Depending on the age of the Cube, it could be a floppy cutout (found on > later Cubes only), but more likely it's a blank for a second MO drive. NeXT > thought these drives were the wave of the future, and assumed that everyone > would want two. Most floppies for Cubes were external SCSI floppies. AFAIK, > there were never any Cubes made with internal CD-ROM drives; only the Slabs > had those, but I might be wrong. As said above, it depends on vintage. If it is another optical cut-out, you should be able to tell since it is the same width and height of the first optical cut-out. If there is a floppy in the system, this should be pretty apparent too from looking at the outside of the case, since there'll be a floppy slot there! I think NeXT may have just used a modified optical drive slot cover with a slot cut in it as a bezel for the floppy, but I'm not sure as I don't have a Cube that new. > Mark. --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From sean at techcare.com Thu Dec 7 14:34:55 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? References: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> <015a01c05fce$b8ff1380$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <02ec01c0608d$28fdf0c0$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Gregory" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 4:51 PM Subject: Re: NEXTcube, now what? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sean Caron" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 2:24 PM > Subject: Re: NEXTcube, now what? > > I'd rather run > > NeXTStep myself (since it is such a good match for the hardware - you > > can run BSD almost anywhere, but only NeXT systems [for all practical > > purposes] can run NeXTStep) > > You may still be able to get NeXTStep 3.3 installation media (on CD-ROM) > from Apple. There was a program to provide Y2K updates, with NS 3.3 thrown > in as a bonus. All you had to do was provide Apple with the serial number > of your Cube or Slab (black hardware only). NeXT took the very sensible > position that the OS is integral to the machine, so to prove that you have > the right to the OS, you just had to prove you have a Cube of Slab. I > believe the upgrade was free, but you may have had to pay S & H. The > program was still in effect 9 months ago. I love this program! I was able to get NeXTStep v3.3 with all manuals for all platforms with documentation shipped like second-day for free! Talk about support! I don't know if it's still in operation, as the Apple web site that referenced it doesn't seem to exist anymore. It was definitely a BIG help to me in getting my Slab running nicely. > The external SCSI connector on NeXTs is an Apple-standard DB-25, so any > external SCSI CD-ROM will do, and NeXTs can be setup to boot from CD-ROM. > > Regards, > Mark "Still remorseful about selling my Cube" Gregory --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From gregorym at cadvision.com Thu Dec 7 14:40:19 2000 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? References: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> <015a01c05fce$b8ff1380$0200a8c0@marvin> <00f201c05fe4$fb749e40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> <026301c05fe7$e5f50ca0$0200a8c0@marvin> <02b801c0608c$6f704310$0c00000a@techcare.com> Message-ID: <007801c0608d$ea4acdc0$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Caron" To: Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 1:29 PM Subject: Re: NEXTcube, now what? > Yeah, you can put either non-parity or parity 30 pinn SIMMS in the > Cube (since it doesn't care about parity). I think the maximum is 32 megs. There are 16 SIMM slots in the '030 cube, for a maximum of 64 Megs (4M x 16). IMHO, using parity SIMMs when non-parity SIMMs work is a waste; the non-parity ones are much more common. Save the paritys for boxes that need them unless you have plenty lying around. Mark From sean at techcare.com Thu Dec 7 15:10:25 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? References: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> <015a01c05fce$b8ff1380$0200a8c0@marvin> <00f201c05fe4$fb749e40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> <026301c05fe7$e5f50ca0$0200a8c0@marvin> <02b801c0608c$6f704310$0c00000a@techcare.com> <007801c0608d$ea4acdc0$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <02fe01c06092$1e5a25d0$0c00000a@techcare.com> > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sean Caron" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 1:29 PM > Subject: Re: NEXTcube, now what? > > > > Yeah, you can put either non-parity or parity 30 pinn SIMMS in the > > Cube (since it doesn't care about parity). I think the maximum is 32 > megs. > > There are 16 SIMM slots in the '030 cube, for a maximum of 64 Megs (4M x > 16). IMHO, using parity SIMMs when non-parity SIMMs work is a waste; the > non-parity ones are much more common. Save the paritys for boxes that need > them unless you have plenty lying around. > > Mark Sorry, my mistake (just going from what I can vaguely remember about it at work). It seems to me that 30 pin parity SIMMS (mostly of the one meg variety) are pretty common, especially out of old 486 type systems. I guess it's just whatever you've got available. --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 7 13:55:59 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: RML380Z and exploding sun psus [long and boring] In-Reply-To: <3A2F557D.424F1018@rdel.co.uk> from "Paul Williams" at Dec 7, 0 09:16:45 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 874 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001207/5419a3a0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 7 14:32:58 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough... In-Reply-To: <001207063419.2020135b@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at Dec 7, 0 06:34:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3515 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001207/aa068b70/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 7 14:14:59 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: RML380Z bits was summat boring about 'sploding psus In-Reply-To: <20001207100907.19175.qmail@web1608.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?kebabthesheep?=" at Dec 7, 0 02:09:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1785 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001207/8aad2908/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 7 14:17:44 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: RML380Z and exploding sun psus [long and boring] In-Reply-To: <20001207101516.14054.qmail@web1606.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?kebabthesheep?=" at Dec 7, 0 02:15:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 877 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001207/7ea188a1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 7 14:47:30 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: CDC Sabre information In-Reply-To: from "John Honniball" at Dec 7, 0 12:51:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 354 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001207/30938e0f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 7 14:20:52 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: Apricot & G4IDE In-Reply-To: <00Dec7.110812gmt.46096@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> from "Adrian Graham" at Dec 7, 0 11:08:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1544 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001207/cd232fda/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 7 14:52:08 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: Source for Osborne documentation? In-Reply-To: <200012071315.eB7DFu612422@bg-tc-ppp592.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Dec 7, 0 08:15:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1298 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001207/b369e0a5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 7 14:56:37 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <001201c0605f$d5869320$1192fea9@idcomm.com> from "Richard Erlacher" at Dec 7, 0 08:10:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 994 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001207/7ed3823e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 7 15:03:28 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <3A2FAC86.E67EBBF5@coin.org> from "John Tinker" at Dec 7, 0 09:28:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1244 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001207/fecf4d15/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 7 15:09:14 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: from "Russ Blakeman" at Dec 7, 0 11:13:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 899 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001207/975baff6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 7 15:12:41 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Dec 7, 0 09:21:48 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1296 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001207/5002fcff/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 7 15:38:38 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001207113429.01969990@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Dec 07, 2000 11:37:37 AM Message-ID: <200012072138.NAA12565@shell1.aracnet.com> > consists of those two tools and flashlight. I also consider my Handspring > Visor with its database of DEC module numbers and disk drive numbers to be > quite valuable at auctions when I'm wondering what exactly something is. > > --Chuck For those without a handheld computer to store a database of module numbers in, you can shrink the printout of Field Guide down to the point where if you cut off the blank paper and fold it in thirds it is about the size of a 3.5" floppy. That, a Leatherman, and a flashlight are probably my main three items. If I'm going somewhere that I'll have to or might have to tear apart some serious equipment I'll bring my toolbag which includes a goodly selection of Excelite tools, pliers, wrenches (a big set of socket wrenches is in a separate case), and other items such as tape and scratch paper. In the last couple years I've also added a lot of those little screwdriver bits that seem to be so popular, and can be used in cordless drills and the like. A few months ago I found a set of the bits that covers basically every kind of security screw you might encounter. I've got to admit they're starting to replace my Excelites as my favorite sets. Though my favorite screwdriver is still the one I got for Christmas from my Uncle one year as a kid. It's got a shaft that flips over and each end has a bit that flips over so you've got a total of two sizes phillips, and two sizes of flat-head. It seems to be a lot better made than the ones like it that are available now. Another tool that's very, very useful is a digital camera. If you're tearing stuff apart you can snap lots of shots off. If you're trying to ID something you can take a pic and toss it on the web. A related tool would be a scanner and Adobe Photoshop. As long as it doesn't have chips that the scanner will erase you can scan the board in and use Photoshop and it's 'layers' feature to write notes on the scan, and trace things out. The layers mean you can have mulitiple layers with your notes and scriblings, and turn them on and off as you wish. Of course all this reminds me of when I was working as an Electrician in the Navy. I always carried three tools with me. A pair of fuse pullers, an Electricians knife, and a pair of slotted pliers. With those three tools I could do 95% of the work I needed to. Needless to say I've never read the Navy Manual "Tools and Their Uses", although I've got a copy :^) It would have told me I couldn't do most of the stuff I did with those three items :^) Zane From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 7 16:07:15 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <200012072138.NAA12565@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001207113429.01969990@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207160043.00dc2100@pc> At 01:38 PM 12/7/00 -0800, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: >Another tool that's very, very useful is a digital camera. I'll second that! >A related tool would be a scanner and Adobe Photoshop. As long as it >doesn't have chips that the scanner will erase you Huh? Scanners have little fluorescents in them, not UV lamps... >can scan the board in and >use Photoshop and it's 'layers' feature to write notes on the scan, and >trace things out. The layers mean you can have mulitiple layers with your >notes and scriblings, and turn them on and off as you wish. That's clever. I eagerly await a palm computer with a wireless net link strong enough that it will work in the average metal building typically used by surplus warehouses. :-) Imagine being able to search the web or check eBay comparable prices in the field... Someone else mentioned the decrease in quality of Sears Craftsman tools. I'll send that. I got the 90+ piece socket wrench set a year or two ago, and I spend more time swearing at them than using them. The drive/reverse control is now a little plastic lever that is eager to get stuck, and alternatively, decides not to engage or disengage, and I think I even stripped one so that it no longer engages. - John From geneb at deltasoft.com Thu Dec 7 16:08:59 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: Apricot & G4IDE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > Given the callsign 'G4IDE', I'd expect this is something like > > > an interface > > > to a weather fax receiver used by a radio ham. > > Wasn't the Z-80 IDE drive interface that was built a few years ago known as the G4IDE? I've got this fading memory of seeing something like that in The Computer Journal. g. From russ at rbcs.8m.com Thu Dec 7 16:19:59 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Never had one break in the middle of a job, they just slowly work less efficiently than new and I take them back. I have had rare occasions that the tip of a phillips 2 has sheared off but I carry 2 or 3 of them anyway. Sears Roebuck may not be in the UK but they are in canada under the name Simpson Sears. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Tony Duell Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 3:09 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: What tools do you carry, always > > All of my "have to be excellent quality" tools including my vise type pliers > are Sears Craftsman. This way when I break them they give me a new one and I > can depend on them to be reliable as well . I use my vise grip pliers for a I'm not saying this applies to this brand (which is unknown in the UK), but for me a lifetime warranty is not worth anything. Good quality most certainly is (even if the warranty is 'if it breaks, too bad'). When I'm doing a job, I don't want to have to stop (probably with the mechanism in some critical state) and go off and replace a tool that's broken. Even if the replacement is free, my time isn't. Nor is the hassle of losing 'the place' in what you are doing and have to go back to it. I don't know what the warranty on most of my tools is. I've never had cause to attempt to replace them... I simply can't afford to buy cheap tools -tony From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Dec 7 16:34:38 2000 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough... Message-ID: <001207173438.20201464@trailing-edge.com> >> When I was a grad student at Caltech I heard some professors offering >> some similar worries as much as 10 years ago.... See the full article at >I have often claimed that I am not an engineer. In one sense this most >certainly false (in that I make 'engines' -- namely ingenious mecahnisms). >In another sense it's certainly true -- my qualifications are in particle >physics, not engineering. In most of the US, putting "engineer" near your name doesn't require that you hold an engineering certification. For instance, my official title at my day job is "senior software engineer" but I've never taken a single software nor engineering course, much less certification exam, in my life. In other parts of the world, putting "engineer" near your name can only be done if you've passed the required certifications. >> But could they? Could a handful of engineering >> majors, circa 2000, actually make a computer out of >> assorted parts? >I'd be interested to know what these 'parts' were. Motherboard/video >card/disk drive/PSU? (in other words 'making a PC'). Microprocessor, RAM, >EPROM, TTL glue? (making a microprocessor board, like manya of us have >done many times)? Lots of simple gate and flip-flop chips, or FPGAs >(making a processor at the gate level)? Almost certainly motherboard/video card/disk drive/PSU in this context. (I, too, was shocked in the early 90's to find a book called "Build your own PC" and all it did was show you how to plug boards together.) >Unfortunately, this seems to be the case in the UK as well. I've met >engineering graduates who don't have a _clue_ about real-world >electronics or mechanics. Show them a simple circuit board or a simple >mechanism -- even something as simple as a striking clock -- and they >don't have any ideas as to how it works and what the parts are for. There's a lot in the modern world that encourages folks to over-specialize. In my experience teaching, in particular, I found that many students weren't interested in an interesting aside because they didn't *need* that tidbit to pass the class. Take that same logic - "I don't need that to pass" - and extend it past schoolwork to jobs, relationships, whatever, and you get 90% of the population. >Another thing that people are remarkably bad at these days is making >sensible approximations. They just throw a computer at the problem and >take whatever answer it gives as correct. Now, don't get me wrong -- I >don't want to solve complex (differential) equations by hand. But often I >can get an answer to better than 10% by making reasonable approximations, 10%? That's way too much accuracy. When I was at Caltech I took a class called "Order-of-magnitude Physics" that was probably the best I ever took. Factor of ten was more than good enough for us :-). A quick web search reveals the fact that the class now has a web page at http://dope.caltech.edu/ph103c/info.html It's actually close in popularity to the old "Feynman Lectures" classes; it's very common to find postdocs and professors sitting in the audience along with the undergrads and grad students. Tim. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 7 16:31:55 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: MO question Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207162433.02a43780@pc> In a nice freebie haul that included a 128M Quadra 950, a 660AV, a Syquest external, an HP ScanJet IIc, DeskWriter C, there was an Optima Concorde 600 meg magneto-optical drive. This is the Sony SMO-E501 mechanism. On the back of the external SCSI box, there was a DIN-5 connector, like a keyboard connector, that piqued my curiousity. Inside, I saw that it was simply an external connector for 5 volt power. What might have this been used for? - John From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 7 18:25:25 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: Heathkit Fall 1978 catalog now on-line; H-8, H-11, H-9 and ET-3400. Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001207192525.4c5f7eda@mailhost.intellistar.net> Hi, I just finished scanning all of the computer related pages from my Fall 1978 Heathkit catalag and posting them on the web. There is a link to all of them at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/hk/heathkit.htm". Items shown in the pages include the H-8 and H-11 computers, H-9 terminal, H-10 paper tape reader/punch, the WH-17 and WH-27 Floppy Disk Drives and the ET-3400 Microprocessor trainer and the EE-3401 training course that went with it. Enjoy! The next thing on my to-do list is the dig out all my Osborne books and make a list of them and sent them to ? for scanning and posting. I did find my Osborne 1 Technical manual today. Joe Shameless Plug - take a look at the stuff that I have for sale on E-OverPay while you're at it. There's a link at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/joespage.htm". From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 7 17:25:06 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207160043.00dc2100@pc> from "John Foust" at Dec 07, 2000 04:07:15 PM Message-ID: <200012072325.PAA22277@shell1.aracnet.com> > >A related tool would be a scanner and Adobe Photoshop. As long as it > >doesn't have chips that the scanner will erase you > > Huh? Scanners have little fluorescents in them, not UV lamps... OK, I guess I'm just a little to paranoid maybe :^) > I eagerly await a palm computer with a wireless net link strong enough > that it will work in the average metal building typically used > by surplus warehouses. :-) Imagine being able to search the web > or check eBay comparable prices in the field... What I'd like a colour wireless tablet that could be used to surf and read Acrobat and various graphics files. Think of how great that would be when working on the hardware! Zane From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 7 16:37:16 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: RML380Z bits was summat boring about 'sploding psus In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > I never understand why people have PCs without 5.25" drives (and 8" > drives for that matter...) Yeah, and a Diablo 31 or equivalent, and a 9 track tape drive. All stuff we use everyday, Tony. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 7 16:47:00 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:31 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207160043.00dc2100@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: > I eagerly await a palm computer with a wireless net link strong enough > that it will work in the average metal building typically used > by surplus warehouses. :-) Imagine being able to search the web > or check eBay comparable prices in the field... This has been my dream for at least a couple years now. I actually do have this setup but it's a tad cumbersome (my Psion 5 and a wireless modem) but it does come in handy in a pinch. The ultimate would be a fast enough connection to where one could stream video over the web. This way, groups of scroungers could make arrangements to have one person go to the ham fest and look around while everyone else sat in the comfort of their house viewing the items over the web: "Hey, wait, go back to that other box and pick up the grey thing under the whatchmacallit!" :) I often think how cool it could be to have a group of minions running around to thrift stores and surplus shops picking through everything for me while I sat at home and monitored their activities from a main control room. I could direct what things they should buy and even how much to offer. Do I have an over-active imagination? > Someone else mentioned the decrease in quality of Sears Craftsman > tools. I'll send that. I got the 90+ piece socket wrench set > a year or two ago, and I spend more time swearing at them than > using them. The drive/reverse control is now a little plastic > lever that is eager to get stuck, and alternatively, decides > not to engage or disengage, and I think I even stripped one > so that it no longer engages. I understand that they are no longer made by the same manufacturer. The "Craftsman" brand is now made by some cheaper foreign manufacturer, and the old "Craftsman" tools are now sold actually under a different name. I forget what that name is, but it would be worth it to check around. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From dcoward at pressstart.com Thu Dec 7 17:50:37 2000 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: <4.1.20001207150357.047ee8a0@mail.pressstart.com> Tony Duell wrote: >Since the CBM serial bus protocol is documented somewhere (and there are >plenty of hackers who've dug into the C64 and C128 ROMs), I don't think >there's a good reason why the 1571 (and other CBM peripherals) can't be >linked up to _any_ computer and the serial bus simulated by bit-banging >on a TTL-level I/O port. > >In fact, isn't there a well-known program to at least read/write disks in >1541 drives from an MS-DOS box? I remember that shortly after I put my Hero I together, someone was advertizing plans for a 1541 interface for Hero. I kick myself since for not sending for those plans. What I do have is a Radofin interface board to connect a 1541 to my Aquarius. The board has an PROM that adds about 15 DOS commands to Aquarius Basic and includes a machine language monitor. It works like a charm, and of course I can also read the files on my C64. It seems to me that any computer with a cartridge port (meaning one with address,data, and I/O select lines) is a good candidate for interfacing to a 1541. --Doug =================================================== Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com (work) Sr Software Engineer mranalog@home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Visit the new Analog Computer Museum and History Center at http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog =================================================== From donm at cts.com Thu Dec 7 18:14:07 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Apricot & G4IDE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Gene Buckle wrote: > > > > Given the callsign 'G4IDE', I'd expect this is something like > > > > an interface > > > > to a weather fax receiver used by a radio ham. > > > > > > Wasn't the Z-80 IDE drive interface that was built a few years ago known > as the G4IDE? I've got this fading memory of seeing something like that > in The Computer Journal. It was Tilman Reh's GIDE interface, Gene. - don > g. > > > From jforbes at primenet.com Thu Dec 7 18:16:54 2000 From: jforbes at primenet.com (J Forbes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: tools I always carry Message-ID: <3A302876.4EB740FE@primenet.com> a Swiss Army pocketknife, with two knife blades, and two can opener blades (with slot screwdriver blades on the ends of the can openers). Never had a problem getting into the poor selection of computers at the local thrift store...and if I'm visiting someone and fixing their computer (not very often does this happen) they'll have a pair of pliers to get into the rest of them. Jim From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 7 18:16:53 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Craftsman (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: Message-ID: When Sears bought the Craftsman tool company (anyone know when that was? 1930? 1940?), Craftsman also had a secondary line of lower quality tools, called "Companion". If you look through OLD automotive tools, you'll sometimes find some "Companion tools from the Craftsman tool company". Sears changed that to "Sears Craftsman" and "Sears Companion". They continued the lifetime warranty policy. BTW, Craftsman tools (presumably still owned by Sears) are now available at Orchard Supply hardware, and even some TV shopping channels! The general public, who typically don't know what tools ARE, overvalue that lifetime warranty. 1) Virtually EVERY tool company does it! (The public seem to think that Sears Craftsman is the only one!) Thorsen, probably even GLOBEMASTER, do it. Harbor Freight will exchange crap that breaks. 2) As I said in my book, I would much rather have a few good tools, then a lifetime supply of scrap metal. I remember one time at the Alameda flea market, that some guy had a few sets of sockets. He wanted $10 for a set of Craftsman, but $4 for Snap-On! ("Because Craftsman is guaranteed for life") The Sears tools are NOT comparable quality to what they once were. The metallurgy is worse, and the workmanship is TERRIBLE! Take a look at a current Sears socket or box end wrench - frequently the broaching isn't even centered! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 7 18:20:21 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Flourescents (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <200012072325.PAA22277@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > > >A related tool would be a scanner and Adobe Photoshop. As long as it > > >doesn't have chips that the scanner will erase you > > Huh? Scanners have little fluorescents in them, not UV lamps... Could somebody please explain to me how flourescent lamps work? They put out a LOT of UV light. So much so, that I thought that the name implied that they operated by a coating that flouresced under UV. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From jforbes at primenet.com Thu Dec 7 18:25:24 2000 From: jforbes at primenet.com (J Forbes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough... Message-ID: <3A302A74.5E2E3A95@primenet.com> I worked my way thru mech engineering school (20 yrs ago) first at a junkyard (auto salvage), then a transmission shop. Back when part time minimum wage was still worth something compared to state subsidised tuition. I had no trouble passing the machine shop class :) and even whizzed thru ee for non-majors (remember the KIM?) Jim From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 7 18:21:50 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough... In-Reply-To: <001207173438.20201464@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at Dec 7, 0 05:34:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3022 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001208/bd974343/attachment.ksh From chris at mainecoon.com Thu Dec 7 18:29:22 2000 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Flourescents (was: What tools do you carry, always References: Message-ID: <3A302B62.D6B22CB2@mainecoon.com> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: > > > > >A related tool would be a scanner and Adobe Photoshop. As long as it > > > >doesn't have chips that the scanner will erase you > > > Huh? Scanners have little fluorescents in them, not UV lamps... > > Could somebody please explain to me how flourescent lamps work? > They put out a LOT of UV light. > So much so, that I thought that the name implied that they operated by a > coating that flouresced under UV. That's certainly the case with most of the beasts. They are (or perhaps were -- I don't make a habit of keeping track of lamp technology) mercury gas discharge tubes -- heaters vaporize mercury, you dump current through the tube (using the ballast to keep the tube from appearing as the dead short it is) and it emits in the UV range, which in turn excites the phosphor coating of the tube which emits in a narrow fraction of the visible spectrum... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From jforbes at primenet.com Thu Dec 7 18:32:16 2000 From: jforbes at primenet.com (J Forbes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Data Archival Message-ID: <3A302C10.D395C3DE@primenet.com> With the talk of CD life, I was contemplating saving data (including all my old software, ie MS/IBM DOS 1.1 -> 6.22). Also, we've begun to digitize the family pictures. It seems to me that nowadays we buy new hard drives with a few times more capacity every year or two. We also have several computers, many networked (at home, this is). I think that we may just keep all the info on hard drives, with an occasional CD-R backup, and it will get duplicated so many times over the years that we would be hard pressed to lose any data. Music/Video may be another story... Jim From elvey at hal.com Thu Dec 7 18:35:32 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Craftsman (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200012080035.QAA10321@civic.hal.com> "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" wrote: ---snip--- > > I remember one time at the Alameda flea market, that some guy had a few > sets of sockets. He wanted $10 for a set of Craftsman, but $4 for > Snap-On! ("Because Craftsman is guaranteed for life") Hi Fred I hope you bought the Sanp-on, I know I would. > > > The Sears tools are NOT comparable quality to what they once were. > The metallurgy is worse, and the workmanship is TERRIBLE! > Take a look at a current Sears socket or box end wrench - frequently the > broaching isn't even centered! In general, the Craftsman tools are OK. The sockets are at least made of somewhat hardened metal. One could do a lot worse. If I could get a good set of socket from say Mac or Snap-On for the same price as Craftsman, I'd do it. Over the years, the only Craftsman tool I refuse to waste time with it their screw drivers. Some are way too brittle or to soft. One should not be able to bend or break them using only your hand. I find the top of the line Stanley screw drivers work well but most hardware stores only carry the cheap ones. Dwight From gibbsjj at u.washington.edu Thu Dec 7 18:38:26 2000 From: gibbsjj at u.washington.edu (Josh Gibbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Heathkit Fall 1978 catalog now on-line; H-8, H-11, H-9 and ET-3400. References: <3.0.1.16.20001207192525.4c5f7eda@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <01aa01c060af$2df10f50$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> > The next thing on my to-do list is the dig out all my Osborne books and > make a list of them and sent them to ? for scanning and posting. I did find > my Osborne 1 Technical manual today. That would be me! My name is Josh. No major rush on the docs, since my scanner is on loan to a friend until later this month. I do appreciate you letting me scan them, and I will make sure to return them promptly and in the same condition I received them. Once I have them scanned I will make them available on a webpage (yet to be created) along with some other documentation I think people would be interested in. I am hoping to get a good repository for old documentation going! Thanks. Josh From donm at cts.com Thu Dec 7 18:53:48 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Craftsman (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > When Sears bought the Craftsman tool company (anyone know when that > was? 1930? 1940?), Craftsman also had a secondary line of lower quality > tools, called "Companion". If you look through OLD automotive tools, > you'll sometimes find some "Companion tools from the Craftsman tool > company". Fred, did they not also have a "Dunlap" line? Or am I confusing that with Wards or someone else? - don > Sears changed that to "Sears Craftsman" and "Sears Companion". > They continued the lifetime warranty policy. > > BTW, Craftsman tools (presumably still owned by Sears) are now available > at Orchard Supply hardware, and even some TV shopping channels! > > > The general public, who typically don't know what tools ARE, overvalue > that lifetime warranty. > 1) Virtually EVERY tool company does it! (The public seem to > think that Sears Craftsman is the only one!) Thorsen, probably even > GLOBEMASTER, do it. Harbor Freight will exchange crap that breaks. > 2) As I said in my book, I would much rather have a few good > tools, then a lifetime supply of scrap metal. > > I remember one time at the Alameda flea market, that some guy had a few > sets of sockets. He wanted $10 for a set of Craftsman, but $4 for > Snap-On! ("Because Craftsman is guaranteed for life") > > > The Sears tools are NOT comparable quality to what they once were. > The metallurgy is worse, and the workmanship is TERRIBLE! > Take a look at a current Sears socket or box end wrench - frequently the > broaching isn't even centered! > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > > From russ at rbcs.8m.com Thu Dec 7 19:01:01 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Craftsman (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Great Neck and lots of no-namers do too as well as Walmart's Popular Mechanics line - if you have the receipt. I've found Craftsman rachets broken and left ona vehicle in the junkyard, taken them in and gotten a new one - no questions. My dalmation chewed the end of the handle on a #2 phillips I had - took it back and got a new one. I haven't bought a screwdriver in 15 years. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 6:17 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Craftsman (was: What tools do you carry, always When Sears bought the Craftsman tool company (anyone know when that was? 1930? 1940?), Craftsman also had a secondary line of lower quality tools, called "Companion". If you look through OLD automotive tools, you'll sometimes find some "Companion tools from the Craftsman tool company". Sears changed that to "Sears Craftsman" and "Sears Companion". They continued the lifetime warranty policy. BTW, Craftsman tools (presumably still owned by Sears) are now available at Orchard Supply hardware, and even some TV shopping channels! The general public, who typically don't know what tools ARE, overvalue that lifetime warranty. 1) Virtually EVERY tool company does it! (The public seem to think that Sears Craftsman is the only one!) Thorsen, probably even GLOBEMASTER, do it. Harbor Freight will exchange crap that breaks. 2) As I said in my book, I would much rather have a few good tools, then a lifetime supply of scrap metal. I remember one time at the Alameda flea market, that some guy had a few sets of sockets. He wanted $10 for a set of Craftsman, but $4 for Snap-On! ("Because Craftsman is guaranteed for life") The Sears tools are NOT comparable quality to what they once were. The metallurgy is worse, and the workmanship is TERRIBLE! Take a look at a current Sears socket or box end wrench - frequently the broaching isn't even centered! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 7 18:55:24 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > >> I like to tinker, but haven't found anybody that wants to pay me to do >> it. > >It's called "inventions and patents". I have two patents and they still never let me tinker. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 7 18:43:54 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: References: <037b01c06060$c75f1c80$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: >> BTW, never write on a CD with a felt-tip pen or magic marker. The ink >> can easily seep through and affect the laser's ability to read the >> data. Labels are a bad idea, too, as they will cause the disc to spin >> out of balance. > >So how are we supposed to label them, buy a 30-micron layer lacquer >machine? Its a solvent issue, just buy a pen made for labeling CDs. TDK makes one for less than $2. Personally I use whatever is handy short of a ballpoint. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 7 19:18:53 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Craftsman (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <200012080035.QAA10321@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Dwight Elvey wrote: > Hi Fred > I hope you bought the Snap-on, I know I would. Of course! > > The Sears tools are NOT comparable quality to what they once were. > > The metallurgy is worse, and the workmanship is TERRIBLE! > > Take a look at a current Sears socket or box end wrench - frequently the > > broaching isn't even centered! > In general, the Craftsman tools are OK. The sockets are at least > made of somewhat hardened metal. One could do a lot worse. Yes, they ARE "OK". But they USED TO be "very good". I'm complaining not so much about the quality as about the reduction in quality since the good old days. In the early 60s, they were almost a competitor to Snap-On. Now they compete with the Hrbor freight generics. > If I could get a good set of socket from say Mac or Snap-On for > the same price as Craftsman, I'd do it. Over the years, the only > Craftsman tool I refuse to waste time with it their screw drivers. > Some are way too brittle or to soft. One should not be able to > bend or break them using only your hand. In the 60s, they were pretty good. I prize my OLD Craftsman screwdrivers. Then they started cutting corners, particularly in their metallurgy. But for extended use, I much prefer the Snap-On handle style. Harbor Freight now has cheap generics with handles that imitate the Snap-Ons. > I find the top of the line Stanley screw drivers work well > but most hardware stores only carry the cheap ones. Stanley seems to still make some good ones. But these days, I find that I'm happier with just using bits in a holder. The Snap-On ratcheting holder is a joy to use - I've never found anyone else's ratchet to be acceptable. Snap-On also makes some ribbed bits for the screws pleasure (small ribs on the end keep the bit from riding up out of marginal screw heads). -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From kees.stravers at iae.nl Thu Dec 7 19:24:01 2000 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: What is an Emulex UD23? Message-ID: <20001208012401.7AAA420F40@mail.iae.nl> Hi, In the PDP-11/84 that whas recently rolled in here, I found an Emulex UD23 card. What does this card do? I searched on the net, but couldn't find any information on it, not even on my own site ;-) and all the periphals that came with the 11/84 all have their own cards in there. Help? Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Dec 7 17:30:48 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Flourescents (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: References: <200012072325.PAA22277@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001207172740.0196f158@208.226.86.10> >Could somebody please explain to me how flourescent lamps work? >They put out a LOT of UV light. >So much so, that I thought that the name implied that they operated by a >coating that flouresced under UV. Gas in the tube is ionized, current then passes through it. The current excites the ions that emit high energy photons (typically toward the ultra violet end of the spectrum) which impinge on a phosphor that coats the inside of the tube which absorbs the energy of the photon and then re-radiates that energy as heat + light at a different wavelength. (generally lower in the spectrum toward blue) The more "downshifting" the phosphor does the more heat it emits. --Chuck From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 7 18:49:53 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Data Archival In-Reply-To: <3A302C10.D395C3DE@primenet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, J Forbes wrote: > It seems to me that nowadays we buy new hard drives with a few > times more capacity every year or two. We also have several > computers, many networked (at home, this is). > > I think that we may just keep all the info on hard drives, with > an occasional CD-R backup, and it will get duplicated so many > times over the years that we would be hard pressed to lose any > data. And then one day the box it's stored in gets bumped a little too hard, or when you try to fire it up in ten years something on it blows, or...? I can think of worse ways to archive data, but I wouldn't want to trust anything long term to a hard drive. Unless you kept the data "alive" meaning you kept it stored on a computer that is constantly being backed-up and in service. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 7 18:57:17 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > >> I like to tinker, but haven't found anybody that wants to pay me to do > >> it. > > > >It's called "inventions and patents". > > I have two patents and they still never let me tinker. Well, next time try to invent something that's marketable :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Dec 7 20:05:04 2000 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Flourescents (was: What tools do you carry, always References: <3A302B62.D6B22CB2@mainecoon.com> Message-ID: <3A3041BC.77457BEA@eoni.com> >From "The Illustrated Science and Invention Encyclopedia": Fluoresent discharge tube - ...the type most often used is a slender glass tube filled with mercury vapor at low pressure, with argon added to help starting... At each end of the tube is a filament-type electrode coated with a material that easily emits electrons when heated. When the current - usually alternating current - is switched on, the filaments heat up and emit electrons, each one acting as the anode or cathode depending on the half-cycle of the current. A high voltage between the electrodes is needed to start the argon discharge, and this is done using a starter or a choke or ballast. The starter automatically breaks the circuit when the filaments have heated up, causing the choke, which is an induction coil, to produce a brief pulse of high voltage electricity. This starts the argon discharge and, very shortly, a mercury discharge. This is self sustaining, with a continuous flow of electrons between the electrodes. The radiation from the ionized vapour is strong in the ultraviolet. This falls on a coating of fluorescent material on the inside of the tube, which glows by absorbing the invisible and harmful ultraviolet and re-radiating it as vivible light. The color of this light can be chosen by suitably arranging the mix of fluorescent coating, the most common shades being 'white' and 'warm white'. From Glenatacme at aol.com Thu Dec 7 20:06:31 2000 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: In a message dated 12/06/2000 4:14:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, xds_sigma7@hotmail.com writes: > As for the ST225, don't forget that they *love* to cook their logic > boards... there's one spot that gets hot and then the logic board rolls over > and dies... I've also seen dozens of them which heat up after about 30 minutes. The platters expand due to the heat, and, if you're lucky, you just get a bunch of bad reads. If you're unlucky enough to be doing writes while the thing is hot, when it cools off most everything on the disk will be garbage. I'm sure others must have seen this behavior from the 225 . . . Glen 0/0 From Glenatacme at aol.com Thu Dec 7 20:06:32 2000 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: <66.a077fe4.27619c28@aol.com> In a message dated 12/06/2000 4:47:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > > Aw, come on Tony -- you mean your ZX81 doesn't have a printer? You can get > Yes, of course it does. Problem is, finding the metalised paper for it :-) Ah -- here in the states we use the Alphacom 32, which uses any white thermal (fax) paper which has the same width as the ZX81 printer. > > one at any car boot for a couple of pounds, you know ;>) Of course, you > > still have to type it back in, unless you splurge and buy a cassette > recorder > > . . . > > You mean that's more reliable and faster than writing down the program > and retyping it? That's news to me :-) :-) Well that just proves you can learn something new every day ;>) I went through four tape players before I found one which worked error-free with my home-built ZX81. It has been 95 percent reliable over a two-year period. Additionally I use a fast-data-transfer program (FASTLOADER) which increases the speed of SAVEs and LOADs by 16 times. What's cool about this software is that it merges with the program I'm working with, so I don't have to pre-load the FASTLOADER. I pretty much just SAVE and LOAD as usual. I don't know about your penmanship, but I can't write down 16 KB of BASIC instructions in 30 seconds ;>) Glen 0/0 From tim.mann at compaq.com Thu Dec 7 20:27:37 2000 From: tim.mann at compaq.com (tim.mann@compaq.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200012080227.eB82RbK322353@pachyderm.pa.dec.com> > One of my favourite CDs skips terribly on one track and > it really pisses me off, especially when I'm supposed to be mellowing out. If you have a CD-R drive, you could try making a copy. The CD-R drive might be able to read past the skip (or it might not, but it's worth a try). Use CD Paranoia on Linux to read the original; it tells you whether it's getting errors, and does retries if so. A few of my CDs that have problems in some of my audio players can be read fine in my CD-R drive, and the copies play fine. Of course, if you're unlucky, you might have an audio CD player that can't read CD-R's at all. Tim Mann tim.mann@compaq.com http://www.tim-mann.org Compaq Computer Corporation, Systems Research Center, Palo Alto, CA From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 7 20:22:21 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207160043.00dc2100@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207202007.00bdbf00@pc> At 02:47 PM 12/7/00 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >I often think how cool it could be to have a group of minions running >around to thrift stores and surplus shops picking through everything for >me while I sat at home and monitored their activities from a main control >room. I could direct what things they should buy and even how much to >offer. Do I have an over-active imagination? Who made you boss? Perhaps the surplus shops should install user-steerable web cams that would let us browse the shelves. That would at least save us the trouble of leaving the house. OK, basement. OK, Mom's basement. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 7 20:25:45 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Flourescents (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: References: <200012072325.PAA22277@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207202327.028d7220@pc> At 04:20 PM 12/7/00 -0800, you wrote: >Could somebody please explain to me how flourescent lamps work? >They put out a LOT of UV light. >So much so, that I thought that the name implied that they operated by a >coating that flouresced under UV. Yes, of course that's how flourescent lamps work. I think they even still have mercury vapor in them. However, I questioned whether the dinky little lamp in a scanner would zap a windowed (and presumably stickered) EEPROM. - John From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 7 20:42:33 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Flourescents (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <3A3041BC.77457BEA@eoni.com> Message-ID: Based on the nice detailed explanations, Therefore: > > Huh? Scanners have little fluorescents in them, not UV lamps... is wrong. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 7 20:49:58 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Craftsman (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Great Neck and lots of no-namers do too as well as Walmart's Popular > Mechanics line - if you have the receipt. While there are SOME people who can produce on demand the receipt for the underwear that they bought while in high school, I would not like to own tools that would break or wear out in the duration of time for which I would still have the receipt! > I've found Craftsman rachets > broken and left ona vehicle in the junkyard, taken them in and gotten a new > one - no questions. My dalmation chewed the end of the handle on a #2 > phillips I had - took it back and got a new one. I haven't bought a > screwdriver in 15 years. Back when I was in auto repair (70s), I bought broken Snap-On tools at the Alameda flea market. Sure, I'll buy a broken Snap-On anything for 25 cents. Exchange (Snap-On used to have a facility in Emeryville) made it possible to have a decent set of tools without money. It was a joyous day when I was able to replace my oft-exchanged Craftsman 3/4" breaker bar with a 1" Snap-On (VW flywheel and rear axle nuts are sometimes tight). -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 7 20:52:28 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Flourescents (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207202327.028d7220@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: > Yes, of course that's how flourescent lamps work. I think > they even still have mercury vapor in them. However, I questioned > whether the dinky little lamp in a scanner would zap a windowed > (and presumably stickered) EEPROM. Ahhh! Thank you for the explanation. The issue then is not whether they produce UV, but whether the amount of UV is enough to be a potential problem. From claudew at sprint.ca Thu Dec 7 21:12:31 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs/65816/65802 reference/programming books for trade/donation Message-ID: <3A30519F.27A547FB@sprint.ca> Hi I recently got my hands on a Apple IIgs Woz from someone that obviously was doing, tried or wanted to devellop some serious stuff for this machine... Included all (?) orignal official Apple hardcover reference books for the IIgs! Some I never knew existed! All in excellent condition. Approx. 10 large books... Several non-Apple books. I do not have the space for all of these. I am willing to part with these - now... Programming the 65816 (Sybex 1986) 65816/65802 Assembly Language Programming (Osborne/McGraw-Hill 1986) Inside the Apple IIgs (Sybex 1987) Exploring the Apple IIgs (Addisson-Wesley 1987) Mastering the Apple IIgs Toolbox (Compute! Publications 1987) Apple IIgs Technical reference (Osborne/Mcgraw-Hill 1987) As usual for me : no money offers please. I will give away or I will accept a trade/donation in exchange. My interests are home micros (non ibm-pc arch) from 197x-198x early 1990's...I am still looking for : Atari 8 bit floppy drive, Atari 800, early TRS80 stuff, Apple III, CP/M machines. Shipping will be from Montreal, Canada. Thanks for reading Claude From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 7 21:05:47 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Flourescents (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207202327.028d7220@pc> (message from John Foust on Thu, 07 Dec 2000 20:25:45 -0600) References: <200012072325.PAA22277@shell1.aracnet.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20001207202327.028d7220@pc> Message-ID: <20001208030547.14783.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Yes, of course that's how flourescent lamps work. I think > they even still have mercury vapor in them. However, I questioned > whether the dinky little lamp in a scanner would zap a windowed > (and presumably stickered) EEPROM. The glass of the normal fluorescent lamp acts as a pretty good shortwave UV filter. Otherwise the things would be dangerous. Shortwave UV lamps use a quartz envelope rather than glass, and ceramic windowed EPROM packages use a quartz window. This makes the lamps and the ceramic windowed packages are more expensive than they would otherwise be. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 7 21:06:52 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Flourescents (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: (cisin@xenosoft.com) References: Message-ID: <20001208030652.14846.qmail@brouhaha.com> Fred wrote: > Based on the nice detailed explanations, Therefore: > > > Huh? Scanners have little fluorescents in them, not UV lamps... > is wrong. A normal fluorescent tube is NOT usable as a short-wave UV lamp. From vaxman at uswest.net Thu Dec 7 14:05:14 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <20001207191225.8282.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: See below... On 7 Dec 2000, Eric Smith wrote: > Chuck wrote: > > No, different elements. One uses aluminum foil and the other gold > > foil. Aluminum has the unfortunate tendency to oxidize once oxygen > > permeates(sp?) the plastic or the top seal. This oxidation shows up as > > "black crud" growing from a crack or scratch. > > John wrote: > > Hmm. And how much plastic has to be scratched off before the foil is > > exposed, and how wide of a scratch on either Al or Au will blow > > away data, given the ECC? If a CD gets scratched, oxidation > > won't happen for a while. Will I notice the scratch before > > it's too late? Am I mistreating archival CDs in the first place? > > On a standard CD or CD-R, the data surface is actually on the *top* > side of the disk, covered by a thin layer of lacquer and the > silkscreened label. > > Scratches to the bottom of the disc are unlikely to cause problems, > because the laser is focused through the disk onto the reflective > layer near the top. > Scratches on the bottom of the disk cause the servo system to lose focus and/or tracking. This is why you will occasionally get a CD to repeat a short section of music, similiar to skipping on an LP. > Scratches on the top of the disk are much more likely to cause > problems. The ECC can almost always handle small radial scratches. > Big scratches, or scratches at an angle further from radial (so that > it damages along a track) will cause data loss. > > Oxygen seeps through the lacquer and will eventually oxidize the > aluminimum. This won't happen with gold CDRs. > > Scratches in the top can help oxygen seep in more quickly. > > From dann at greycat.com Thu Dec 7 22:25:41 2000 From: dann at greycat.com (Dann Lunsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: What is an Emulex UD23? In-Reply-To: <20001208012401.7AAA420F40@mail.iae.nl>; from kees.stravers@iae.nl on Fri, Dec 08, 2000 at 02:24:01AM +0100 References: <20001208012401.7AAA420F40@mail.iae.nl> Message-ID: <20001207202541.A32297@greycat.com> On Fri, Dec 08, 2000 at 02:24:01AM +0100, kees.stravers@iae.nl wrote: > Hi, > In the PDP-11/84 that whas recently rolled in here, I found an Emulex > UD23 card. What does this card do? I searched on the net, but couldn't > find any information on it, not even on my own site ;-) and all the > periphals that came with the 11/84 all have their own cards in there. > Help? > Unless my memory is screwy, it's a somewhat brain-damaged SCSI interface. The firmware only handles disks. They made a similar card for tapes; I've got one in an old uVAX we have. Can't remember what it presents to the system as, though. HTH. -- Dann Lunsford The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil dann@greycat.com is that men of good will do nothing. -- Cicero From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 7 22:26:36 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Tools without warranty... Message-ID: Well, I can say from experience that Xcelite does not warranty their tools for anything other than manufacturing defects, since I broke one of their torx bits recently.. Nor was my Stanley torx driver that I broke on the same stubborn torx warrenteed.. grr.. thats when I got out Ye Olde Drill. Of course, I must say that my tools comprise a weird combination of like 8 toolsets, mine, my dad's, both of my grandfather's, and around 4 or so misc. sets of tools that we have at work and bought at auction.. But not having to produce a reciept is good, I recently took a Craftsman tool that broke before I was alive to Sears and got it replaced, no sweat. Will J _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From dwollmann at puttybox.com Thu Dec 7 23:15:06 2000 From: dwollmann at puttybox.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: dalnet #classic_computers IRC channel Message-ID: <20001207231505.A14370@puttybox.com> Just set up #classic_computers so a few of us from another channel could talk classics without getting kicked for being OT. Drop by if you'd like to join in. If there's enough interest, I'll keep the channel active for a while. dalnet, #classic_computers David Wollmann, aka 'converter' converter@dalnet-perl.org From nabil at SpiritOne.com Thu Dec 7 23:35:52 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Manuals available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: LSI ADM-3A brochure Infoton Vistar GT manuals ADDS consul / MRD-700 manuals DEC LA36/LA35 users manual DEC VT100 user's guide Termiflex HT/1 HT/2 hand-held terminal manual decwriterII color brochure TI Silent 700 brochure Datapoint 2200 catalogs Teleray 812-330 terminal data Hazeltine 1xxx data sheets Xerox Diablo hytype 1/2 brochures GE Terminet 300/1200 manuals DEC LA120 manual Free. Direct email replies only. Include mailing address and optional justification of your worthyness. -- Aaron Nabil nabil@spiritone.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 8 00:32:53 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs/65816/65802 reference/programming books for trade/donation In-Reply-To: <3A30519F.27A547FB@sprint.ca> from Claude at "Dec 7, 0 10:12:31 pm" Message-ID: <200012080632.WAA10526@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Inside the Apple IIgs (Sybex 1987) > Apple IIgs Technical reference (Osborne/Mcgraw-Hill 1987) > > As usual for me : no money offers please. I will give away or I will > accept a trade/donation in exchange. > > My interests are home micros (non ibm-pc arch) from 197x-198x early > 1990's...I am still looking for : Atari 8 bit floppy drive, Atari 800, > early TRS80 stuff, Apple III, CP/M machines. I have a IIgs and would love the two books above, but alas I don't have anything on your list ... have there been any request for them so far? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Why was I born with such contemporaries? -- Oscar Wilde -------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 8 00:33:15 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Apple IIgs/65816/65802 reference/programming books for trade/donation In-Reply-To: <3A30519F.27A547FB@sprint.ca> from Claude at "Dec 7, 0 10:12:31 pm" Message-ID: <200012080633.WAA10794@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Shoot, that was private mail. Sorry, all. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Time is what keeps everything from happening at once. ---------------------- From miller at keyways.com Thu Dec 7 19:39:13 2000 From: miller at keyways.com (miller@keyways.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: What is an Emulex UD23? Message-ID: <001208013913.970@keyways.com> Hello: The Emulex UD23 should be a Unibus ESDI disk controller. If the firmware version is high enough there should be FRD (on board field runnable diags) that you can invoke via ODT. Email if you need setup info or instructions on starting the FRD. Mitch miller@keyways.com >Hi, >In the PDP-11/84 that whas recently rolled in here, I found an Emulex >UD23 card. What does this card do? I searched on the net, but couldn't >find any information on it, not even on my own site ;-) and all the >periphals that came with the 11/84 all have their own cards in there. >Help? > >Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 8 00:40:40 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Digital Correspondent, socal In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207162433.02a43780@pc> Message-ID: Digital Correspondent, typewriter looking thing in a soft zippered case the size of luggage (small luggage). I didn't look that much at it, but I think it just showed up today at a Socal scrap yard. I don't recall seeing any before, so I thought I would mention it to the list. From optimus at canit.se Thu Dec 7 23:15:02 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1111.377T100T3753577optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: >"Hey, wait, go back to that other box and pick up the grey thing under the >whatchmacallit!" >I often think how cool it could be to have a group of minions running >around to thrift stores and surplus shops picking through everything for >me while I sat at home and monitored their activities from a main control >room. I could direct what things they should buy and even how much to >offer. Do I have an over-active imagination? Not really. This scheme is already implemented in one big French department store (Lafayette?) in Paris. Webshoppers are assigned a "drone", basically a young human male equipped with rollerskates, a headset and a helmet-mounted webcam. You may then control the shopping drone as it roams around the shops as you please by issuing vocal commands. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Gillar man porr..v?ld kvinno f?rnedring...och en massa onda handlingar s? ?r det filmen f?r dig....sj?lv vet jag inte..har sett 1-3......samtidigt som jag avskyr dem s? ?r det ?nd? s? n?tt magiskt bakom dem... Eric B om Urotsukid?ji From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 8 00:01:12 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1135.377T600T4214173optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: >> Hmm. And how much plastic has to be scratched off before the foil is >> exposed, and how wide of a scratch on either Al or Au will blow >> away data, given the ECC? If a CD gets scratched, oxidation >> won't happen for a while. Will I notice the scratch before >> it's too late? Am I mistreating archival CDs in the first place? >Speaking of a witch, what's that method I heard about a long time ago >whereby you can sand out the scratches on a music CD to make it not skip >anymore? Something about using a real fine abrasive element? I read a review in Amiga Format a while back on such a paste. >Is this possible? One of my favourite CDs skips terribly on one track and >it really pisses me off, especially when I'm supposed to be mellowing out. Apparently the actual data layer is located very near the label face of the disc. Hence, the outer layer of the see-through face is quite thick, and you may remove some without damaging the data. It worked quite fine in the review. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Allt ?r under kontroll, och caps lock ?r bredvid. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 8 01:38:39 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > >> >> I like to tinker, but haven't found anybody that wants to pay me to do >> >> it. >> > >> >It's called "inventions and patents". >> >> I have two patents and they still never let me tinker. > >Well, next time try to invent something that's marketable :) I didn't want to brag, but I invented the donut. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 8 00:59:33 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Data Archival In-Reply-To: <3A302C10.D395C3DE@primenet.com> Message-ID: >I think that we may just keep all the info on hard drives, with >an occasional CD-R backup, and it will get duplicated so many >times over the years that we would be hard pressed to lose any >data. Except for that guy Murphy. Losing data you want to keep is REAL easy. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 7 18:02:45 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: CDC Sabre information In-Reply-To: John Honniball "Re: RE: CDC Sabre information" (Dec 7, 12:51) References: Message-ID: <10012080002.ZM9974@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 7, 12:51, John Honniball wrote: > Anybody know what the interface on the Cifer tape drive is? > The drive came with two huge, rubber-sleeved 50-way ribbon > cables. I think both cables are required for the > interface, so it doesn't look like SCSI... All the Cifers I've seen are Pertec interface, which consists of two 50-way cables. I have the pin assignment list somewhere, if that's any help. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From kebabthesheep at yahoo.com Fri Dec 8 04:33:01 2000 From: kebabthesheep at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?kebabthesheep?=) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: RML380Z and exploding sun psus [long and boring] Message-ID: <20001208103301.6387.qmail@web1604.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > screw holding the lid on was made of purest cheesium alloy, and just > > Argh!!. > > For some odd reason many manufacturers use at least one tamperproof screw > in their PSU housings. You'll find a PCB held down by half a dozen normal > Phillips screws and _one_ tamperproof Torx, for example. That's one > reason for buying a set of tamperproof drivers... > I've never come across that - but i'm still always careful to make sure i've got the correct fitting screw-driver, and that i'm holding it correctly. Munching up screws, especially countersunk ones like these, is _really_ anoying. I learned my lesson the hard way - I bought a japanese motorcycle. The fasters, and in general all metal on it, are made of the softest of the soft crappy steel/alloy. You have to be so carefull with everything, or you bank manager will be laughing all the way to wherever he keeps his money ! Like I said - need to drill it out - then I can have a looksie, and figure out what failed. I'll get back to the list on that one. Dave. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Dec 8 07:20:17 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: MO question Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3A0@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > In a nice freebie haul that included a 128M Quadra 950, a 660AV, > a Syquest external, an HP ScanJet IIc, DeskWriter C, there was > an Optima Concorde 600 meg magneto-optical drive. This is > the Sony SMO-E501 mechanism. That's an odd-sized capacity... are these 5.25 inch carts, or 3.25 inch carts? If the latter, are you sure they aren't 640MB capacity? > On the back of the external SCSI box, there was a DIN-5 connector, > like a keyboard connector, that piqued my curiousity. Inside, > I saw that it was simply an external connector for 5 volt power. > What might have this been used for? For a portable (i.e. 12-volt car accessory) power supply? In order to use it with a portable/notebook/laptop? -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Dec 8 07:21:43 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enoug h... Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3A1@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > In most of the US, putting "engineer" near your name doesn't require that > you hold an engineering certification. For instance, my official title > at my day job is "senior software engineer" but I've never taken a single > software nor engineering course, much less certification exam, in my life. False. In most states of the U.S., if you represent yourself as an engineer of any kind, and you are not a licensed engineer, you are committing a crime, albeit a misdemeanor. Texas is leading the nation in trying to change this. -dq From quapla at xs4all.nl Fri Dec 8 07:39:45 2000 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (The Wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: Digital Correspondent, socal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200012081339.OAA03529@webmail1.xs4all.nl> Intresting. I have one myself, and it's quite a usefull terminal. Could you remember if this model had the modem unit? BTW, are there still ribbons availabe (partno?) Ed Quoting Mike Ford : > Digital Correspondent, typewriter looking thing in a soft zippered case the > size of luggage (small luggage). I didn't look that much at it, but I think > it just showed up today at a Socal scrap yard. I don't recall seeing any > before, so I thought I would mention it to the list. > > > From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Dec 8 07:42:54 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:32 2005 Subject: MO question In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3A0@tegntserver.tegjeff .com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001208073940.02dfd760@pc> At 08:20 AM 12/8/00 -0500, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: >That's an odd-sized capacity... are these 5.25 inch carts, or >3.25 inch carts? If the latter, are you sure they aren't 640MB >capacity? The company's drive case label says 600 although I've seen similar units that claim 640. One 5 1/4 cart was included. >> On the back of the external SCSI box, there was a DIN-5 connector, >> like a keyboard connector, that piqued my curiousity. Inside, >> I saw that it was simply an external connector for 5 volt power. >> What might have this been used for? > >For a portable (i.e. 12-volt car accessory) power supply? In order >to use it with a portable/notebook/laptop? The Quadra 950 must be the largest box Apple ever made, so I don't think that was portable. :-) It hadn't occurred to me that the power would be coming in - that's an interesting possibility. What does a conventional power supply do when it is off and power comes in the wrong way? - John From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Dec 8 07:50:49 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Printronix P300 lineprinter available, Bristol, UK In-Reply-To: <10012080002.ZM9974@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: As the next part of my ongoing project to clear out the house and garage, I'd like to offer this fine old printer to anyone on the list who'd like it: Printronix P300 dot-matrix line printer, originally installed at Westfield College, London in about 1980. It has a serial interface and runs on 240V power. The cover is soundproofed, but don't expect this thing to be quiet! It prints at 300 lines per minute. Needs a good clean-out of the printhead. Located in north Bristol, UK, near the M4/M5/M32 junctions. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Dec 8 08:56:29 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: dalnet #classic_computers IRC channel In-Reply-To: <20001207231505.A14370@puttybox.com> Message-ID: Better yet, head over to irc.deltasoft.com and don't worry about being bothered at *all*. It's a standalone server without any IRC net connections. g. On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, David Wollmann wrote: > Just set up #classic_computers so a few of us from another channel could > talk classics without getting kicked for being OT. Drop by if you'd like > to join in. > > If there's enough interest, I'll keep the channel active for a while. > > > dalnet, #classic_computers > > > David Wollmann, aka 'converter' > > converter@dalnet-perl.org > > From jtinker at coin.org Fri Dec 8 09:29:14 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? References: <002501c18d7c$a5cc3810$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> Message-ID: <3A30FE4A.20AD1D7C@coin.org> I just noticed that sunlight reflecting off the top side of a CD focuses somewhat, maybe with a focal length of about 20 feet. Off of the data side, it spreads. I've tried it with several different types, and so far they all show the same effect. Would anyone care to explain why? From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Fri Dec 8 09:27:56 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: dalnet #classic_computers IRC channel In-Reply-To: <20001207231505.A14370@puttybox.com> References: <20001207231505.A14370@puttybox.com> Message-ID: <00120809275603.00253@Billbob_Linux> Hello, On Thursday 07 December 2000 23:15, you wrote: > Just set up #classic_computers so a few of us from another channel could > talk classics without getting kicked for being OT. Drop by if you'd like > to join in. > > If there's enough interest, I'll keep the channel active for a while. I have a channel for the same purpose, but I wasn't really able to get many folks to show up. I held (might still hold) #obsolete on DalNET IRC. #obsolete was originally founded for members of the Obsolete Computer Helpine, but IRC was a little much for some of those folks ;) I'm building a new machine tonight (Duron 700) so I'm bound to be on IRC most of the evening. My nick is Labradford or Elmer, and you can usually find me in #linux or #windows95, where I am an AOP. I will _positively_ drop in on #classic_computers. See you there. -- Bill Layer Sales Technician +----------------------------------+ Viking Electronics, Inc. 1531 Industrial St. Hudson, WI. 54016 - U.S.A 715.386.8861 ext. 210 +----------------------------------+ "Telecom Solutions for the 21st Century" Powered by Slackware Linux 7.1.0 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Dec 8 09:46:06 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: MO question Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3A5@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > >For a portable (i.e. 12-volt car accessory) power supply? In order > >to use it with a portable/notebook/laptop? > > The Quadra 950 must be the largest box Apple ever made, so > I don't think that was portable. :-) It hadn't occurred to > me that the power would be coming in - that's an interesting > possibility. What does a conventional power supply do when > it is off and power comes in the wrong way? I don't know the answer to your last question, but I wouldn't assume that just because it came with a pile of desktop equipment that it (the MO) was designed soley for use with desktop eq. regards, -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Dec 8 09:49:12 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3A6@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > I just noticed that sunlight reflecting off the top side of a CD focuses > somewhat, maybe with a focal length of about 20 feet. Off of the data side, it > spreads. I've tried it with several different types, and so far they all show > the same effect. Would anyone care to explain why? I remeber reading that a hologram of a lens would refract light in the same was as a real lens would. This concept has formed the basis for the flight-of-fancy holodeck/holosuite concept from Star Trek. My guess is that (unintentionally) the spiral pattern sets up the same interference pattern as a hologram of a parabolic mirror. Regards, -dq From chris at mainecoon.com Fri Dec 8 09:57:12 2000 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough... References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3A1@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3A3104D8.89E83291@mainecoon.com> Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > False. In most states of the U.S., if you represent yourself as an engineer > of any kind, and you are not a licensed engineer, you are committing a > crime, > albeit a misdemeanor. Not in California, unless it's one of a handful of engineering disciplines specifically identified by statute. You'd pretty much have to sign "P.E." after your name to get in trouble here. This isn't to imply that California is particularly progressive in this area (for some value of "progressive"), but rather that nobody has bothered revising the statutes since being an "engineer" automatically implied civil, geological or the sort that operates trains... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Dec 8 10:19:11 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enoug h... Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3A7@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > False. In most states of the U.S., if you represent yourself as an engineer > > of any kind, and you are not a licensed engineer, you are committing a crime, > > albeit a misdemeanor. > > Not in California, unless it's one of a handful of engineering disciplines > specifically identified by statute. You'd pretty much have to sign > "P.E." after your name to get in trouble here. > > This isn't to imply that California is particularly progressive in this > area (for some value of "progressive"), but rather that nobody has > bothered revising the statutes since being an "engineer" automatically > implied civil, geological or the sort that operates trains... Well, in contrast with how regressive other states are, I'd indeed call that progressive. -dq From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 8 11:02:03 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: UCSD PASCAL (P-system) P-code Was:(Why is it that ...) In-Reply-To: <20001129225442.H31090@spies.com> References: ; from Sellam Ismail on Wed, Nov 29, 2000 at 02:40:45PM -0800 Message-ID: <3A31221B.8540.1A89ABB@localhost> > P.S. Anybody know whatever happened to the Beagle Brothers? > Were they really brothers? Or even beagles? It seams like they have even actual web soft available ... http://marquis.tr.org/about1/about1.html :)) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Dec 8 11:09:19 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Heathkit Fall 1978 catalog now on-line; H-8, H-11, H-9 and ET-3400. Message-ID: <20001208170919.83535.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > Hi, > > I just finished scanning all of the computer related pages from my Fall > 1978 Heathkit catalag and posting them on the web... Thank you for these. I have been (slowly) restoring an H-11 I recovered from the crawlspace of a former boss. We did custom DEC work about 12-14 years ago on his H-11 (KDF-11) and my 11/23 (the target system was an 11/73 w/4Mb RAM, Fuji Eagle, the works, running TSX-11 - I loved the fact that I could develop on a system I paid $300 for and deliver code to a machine that cost >$10K). I'm still on the lookout for the schematics for the Heathkit floppy interface. Mine siezes the bus such that on power-on, I never get an ODT prompt. If I put a gap in the Qbus, I can run the CPU, see the I/O registers on the floppy card, etc., but, of course, it doesn't boot up fully - it seems to read in the boot block, but as soon as RT-11 turns up interrupts, because of the break in the grant chain, they, of course, never come. I really just need to know what chips have their fingers in the interrupt handling and to probably just replace them. My board is socketed and I have checked all the TTL chips with an IC tester. I'm down to the Heath/DEC bus driver/receiver parts. Thanks, -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Dec 8 11:33:10 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? In-Reply-To: <3A30FE4A.20AD1D7C@coin.org> Message-ID: <20001208172434.RRSM27326.femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> For years I've used them to reflect light inside a machine to read legends on cards and such. I've got flashlights, but theres never one when you need it... Regards, Jeff In <3A30FE4A.20AD1D7C@coin.org>, on 12/08/00 at 12:33 PM, John Tinker said: >I just noticed that sunlight reflecting off the top side of a CD focuses >somewhat, maybe with a focal length of about 20 feet. Off of the data >side, it spreads. I've tried it with several different types, and so far >they all show the same effect. Would anyone care to explain why? -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 8 12:26:24 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Flourescents (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Dec 7, 0 06:42:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1180 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001208/3194d86f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 8 12:34:56 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: RML380Z and exploding sun psus [long and boring] In-Reply-To: <20001208103301.6387.qmail@web1604.mail.yahoo.com> from "=?iso-8859-1?q?kebabthesheep?=" at Dec 8, 0 02:33:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 870 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001208/5b6fff14/attachment.ksh From ryan at hack.net Fri Dec 8 14:02:36 2000 From: ryan at hack.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: q: old dial-up MUD-like commercial game? Message-ID: <3A313E5C.6CD7F82F@hack.net> Just having a moment of nostalgia here.. Anyone remember having a multi-player D&D/MUD like game dial-up service in their city? I'm thinking around 1985 or earlier... it was some sort of a timeshare system with 8/16/24 ports that people could dial in to at an hourly rate and play. As I recall it was some sort of franchise and we had one here in Milwaukee (414 area code) that was quite popular- I believe it was called Sceptre, but I'm not sure if that was the name of the game/world/town, etc. Just wondering what kind of hardware & software was hosting this game; it was quite addictive (or perhaps I was mesmerized by trying to use an 80-column terminal on a C64). Thanks, -- ------------------------------------------------------- Ryan K. Brooks V: 414-908-9011 r@hack.net F: 707-885-4944 Chief Scientist / Time Warner Telecom N9YBX From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 8 13:14:37 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Digital Correspondent, socal In-Reply-To: <200012081339.OAA03529@webmail1.xs4all.nl> References: Message-ID: >Intresting. I have one myself, and it's quite a usefull terminal. >Could you remember if this model had the modem unit? > >BTW, are there still ribbons availabe (partno?) >> Digital Correspondent, typewriter looking thing in a soft zippered case the Someone claimed it right away. I didn't look around in the case, so no clue on contents or modem, but at least some cables were present. Is there ANYTHING a ribbon isn't available for? BTW I have a couple good sized boxes of ribbons, that I "hope" to soon spread out on something flat a take a couple pictures of, and get rid of. From elvey at hal.com Fri Dec 8 14:39:53 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Flourescents (was: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001207202327.028d7220@pc> Message-ID: <200012082039.MAA15599@civic.hal.com> John Foust wrote: > At 04:20 PM 12/7/00 -0800, you wrote: > >Could somebody please explain to me how flourescent lamps work? > >They put out a LOT of UV light. > >So much so, that I thought that the name implied that they operated by a > >coating that flouresced under UV. > > Yes, of course that's how flourescent lamps work. I think > they even still have mercury vapor in them. However, I questioned > whether the dinky little lamp in a scanner would zap a windowed > (and presumably stickered) EEPROM. Hi There is another issue as well. Most fluorescent tubes are made with ordinary glass. The only glass that I know of that will pass enough high energy UV ( needed to erase EPROMs ) is quartz glass. Between the phosphors and the glass, you'd most likely need a vary long exposure to make any difference ( months to years ). The change in charge caused by cosmic radiation is most likely an order of magnitude higher in effect. Dwight From elvey at hal.com Fri Dec 8 14:47:19 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <66.a077fe4.27619c28@aol.com> Message-ID: <200012082047.MAA15612@civic.hal.com> Glenatacme@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/06/2000 4:47:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > > > > Aw, come on Tony -- you mean your ZX81 doesn't have a printer? You can > get > > > Yes, of course it does. Problem is, finding the metalised paper for it :-) > > Ah -- here in the states we use the Alphacom 32, which uses any white thermal > (fax) paper which has the same width as the ZX81 printer. > > > > one at any car boot for a couple of pounds, you know ;>) Of course, you > > > still have to type it back in, unless you splurge and buy a cassette > > recorder > > > . . . > > > > You mean that's more reliable and faster than writing down the program > > and retyping it? That's news to me :-) :-) > > Well that just proves you can learn something new every day ;>) > > I went through four tape players before I found one which worked error-free > with my home-built ZX81. It has been 95 percent reliable over a two-year > period. Hi Most cheap cassette decks drag a permanent magnet across the tape to erase and also to give it a little bias. This is usually vary poor for fidelity. It tends to make lop sided signals when played back. This is OK for voice but not OK for computer data. The cassette decks that use a high frequency erase head and high frequency bias during record usually work better. The problem with these is that they are usually only in audio quality decks with only line in and outs. Some better quality portables do use this technique, even some of the Radio Shack units. Dwight Dwight From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Dec 8 14:44:22 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: q: old dial-up MUD-like commercial game? In-Reply-To: <3A313E5C.6CD7F82F@hack.net> Message-ID: > Anyone remember having a multi-player D&D/MUD like game dial-up > service in their city? I'm thinking around 1985 or earlier... it was > some sort of a timeshare system with 8/16/24 ports that people could > dial in to at an hourly rate and play. As I recall it was some sort of > franchise and we had one here in Milwaukee (414 area code) that was > quite popular- I believe it was called Sceptre, but I'm not sure if that > was the name of the game/world/town, etc. > I seem to recall such a system running here in the Pacific Northwest. It started out as PPS - Pirates of Puget Sound, then went to calling themselves Polynet Public Systems. It all started on Apple ][ class machines and eventually moved into some kind of Unix machine for the larger multi-player D&D game/bbs they had going. I know of two systems named GSPPS and BSPPS for sure, but I'm VERY fuzzy on the rest. g. From dlinder at uiuc.edu Fri Dec 8 15:15:02 2000 From: dlinder at uiuc.edu (Dan Linder) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Classic Cinemaware Games In-Reply-To: <20001205.112721.-518929.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Dec 2000, Jeffrey l Kaneko wrote: > I always thought the sort that would go looking for 'warez' would > be on the hunt for 'ROMz' . . . or perhaps r0/\/\z... Dan Linder / dlinder @ uiuc.edu Graduate Student, College of Engineering, Dept. of Computer Science - Dept. of Computer Science Teaching Assistant - DoRES Computer Accessibility Researcher - All-Around Tech Mercenary for Hire From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Dec 8 15:31:28 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: q: old dial-up MUD-like commercial game? In-Reply-To: <3A313E5C.6CD7F82F@hack.net> "from Ryan K. Brooks at Dec 8, 2000 02:02:36 pm" Message-ID: <200012082131.PAA25663@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Just having a moment of nostalgia here.. > > Anyone remember having a multi-player D&D/MUD like game dial-up > service in their city? I'm thinking around 1985 or earlier... it was > some sort of a timeshare system with 8/16/24 ports that people could > dial in to at an hourly rate and play. As I recall it was some sort of > franchise and we had one here in Milwaukee (414 area code) that was > quite popular- I believe it was called Sceptre, but I'm not sure if that > was the name of the game/world/town, etc. The Sceptre of Goth. I forget its original name, but it was originally written in BASIC with additional assembly language pieces. originally written on and for the MECC computer (Minnesota Educational Computer Consortium, or something like that) which was a Control Data Cyber system that was connected to remote terminals in various High Schools across the state of Minnesota. there were MANY games written on that system, many of which were multi-user. The program was running well before 1981 when I started attending classes at the University of Minnesota (which had its own Cybers of course, but word gets around...). later the game was commercialized in several cities. if i recall correctly, it was written by Alan Klietz? To add new castles (areas) the game had to be taken down and recompiled. Of course, at the U of Minnesota, the game of choice was Karnath, a HUGE 3D cube of rooms, multi-user, the maze being randomly generated when the person who ran the game decided to start a new game. And for the lucky devils who worked downtown at CDC headquarters, the game of choice was probably Archon (?) or whatever it was called, it used line drawing plato terminals to visually show a 3D maze, and you could talk with other players at other sites, etc. -Lawrence LeMay > > Just wondering what kind of hardware & software was hosting this game; > it was quite addictive (or perhaps I was mesmerized by trying to use an > 80-column terminal on a C64). > > Thanks, > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------- > Ryan K. Brooks V: 414-908-9011 > r@hack.net F: 707-885-4944 > Chief Scientist / Time Warner Telecom N9YBX > > From dogas at bellsouth.net Fri Dec 8 15:29:40 2000 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Apple I on History Channel tonight at 7pm Message-ID: <027401c0615d$f9ca4750$02794ed8@DOMAIN> History's Lost and Found show airing this evening... http://www.historychannel.com/ontv/ Cheers - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 8 15:37:18 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: q: old dial-up MUD-like commercial game? In-Reply-To: <3A313E5C.6CD7F82F@hack.net> Message-ID: >Just having a moment of nostalgia here.. > > Anyone remember having a multi-player D&D/MUD like game dial-up >service in their city? I'm thinking around 1985 or earlier... it was >some sort of a timeshare system with 8/16/24 ports that people could >dial in to at an hourly rate and play. As I recall it was some sort of AFAIK the first one was in Essex (UK), and that was ported to Compuserve fairly soon and called British Legends. Lots of smaller, simpler stuff was running on dailup BBS, I remember Bushido, tradewars, and a few others. Real muds were running at a LOT of campuses, and locally a huge BBS called I think Liberty was running something. Even Compuserve British Legends was empty once in awhile late at night, which was the problem with a lot of the systems. Much of the time zero human interaction, just playing against the NPC (non player something, character maybe). After one month where I played more than sleeping or working combined, I quit cold turkey, and haven't mud much since. Online first person shooter games have what most people really wanted anyway, action and lots of it, with no hourly charges. ****************** Here is a VERY good link, and a snippet http://www.ludd.luth.se/mud/aber/mud-history.html Milieu was originally written for a CDC Cyber owned by the Minnesota Educational Computer Consortium. High school students from around the state were given access to the machine for educational purposes; they often ended up writing chat programs and games instead. I am uncertain of the precise time frame, but I believe Milieu probably predates MUD. Eventually, Alan Klietz ported the game from Pascal to C and wrote an implementation that would run on an IBM PC XT running a multitasking operating system called QNX. Alan and a few other people formed a company called GamBits Timesharing, attached sixteen modems to an XT, and started selling time on it. The game, now called The Scepter of Goth (or The Scepter and The Phoenix, or just Scepter) was now publically available. The GamBits system had bulletin boards, mail, From ryan at hack.net Fri Dec 8 15:42:15 2000 From: ryan at hack.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: q: old dial-up MUD-like commercial game? References: <200012082131.PAA25663@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3A3155B6.B751356E@hack.net> Wow... classiccmp comes through again! Thanks Lawrence! Do you know how it went from UM to commercial? I assume some sort of company owned the rights? Thanks, Ryan Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > Just having a moment of nostalgia here.. > > > > Anyone remember having a multi-player D&D/MUD like game dial-up > > service in their city? I'm thinking around 1985 or earlier... it was > > some sort of a timeshare system with 8/16/24 ports that people could > > dial in to at an hourly rate and play. As I recall it was some sort of > > franchise and we had one here in Milwaukee (414 area code) that was > > quite popular- I believe it was called Sceptre, but I'm not sure if that > > was the name of the game/world/town, etc. > > The Sceptre of Goth. I forget its original name, but it was originally > written in BASIC with additional assembly language pieces. originally > written on and for the MECC computer (Minnesota Educational Computer > Consortium, or something like that) which was a Control Data Cyber > system that was connected to remote terminals in various High Schools > across the state of Minnesota. there were MANY games written on that > system, many of which were multi-user. > > The program was running well before 1981 when I started attending classes > at the University of Minnesota (which had its own Cybers of course, but > word gets around...). later the game was commercialized in several cities. > if i recall correctly, it was written by Alan Klietz? To add new castles > (areas) the game had to be taken down and recompiled. > > Of course, at the U of Minnesota, the game of choice was Karnath, a HUGE > 3D cube of rooms, multi-user, the maze being randomly generated when the > person who ran the game decided to start a new game. > > And for the lucky devils who worked downtown at CDC headquarters, the > game of choice was probably Archon (?) or whatever it was called, it > used line drawing plato terminals to visually show a 3D maze, and you > could talk with other players at other sites, etc. > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > > Just wondering what kind of hardware & software was hosting this game; > > it was quite addictive (or perhaps I was mesmerized by trying to use an > > 80-column terminal on a C64). > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------- > > Ryan K. Brooks V: 414-908-9011 > > r@hack.net F: 707-885-4944 > > Chief Scientist / Time Warner Telecom N9YBX > > > > -- ------------------------------------------------------- Ryan K. Brooks V: 414-908-9011 r@hack.net F: 707-885-4944 Chief Scientist / Time Warner Telecom N9YBX From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Dec 8 15:50:59 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Order-of-magnitude (OT) Message-ID: I believe the order-of-magnitude knowledge was very necessary if you used a slide rule. Since the slide rule allowed you to compute the significant digits the operator had to know the order of magnitude. I graduated from college before handheld/battery calculators. My physics/calculus class was more how to write the equation and derive an approximate answer than a specific answer. My grandfather gave be a slide rule when I was in 4th grade, 1962. Slide rule battery never runs down. Slide rule can be used to scrape ice off windshield. Slide rule doesn't mind hot and cold temperature. Slide rule also visible in direct sun light. My kids don't understand why approximations and knowing the order-of-magnitude are useful. Very useful for determining the expected cost of gas when filling up. Also useful for mowing, raking leaves, hauling dirt, sailing, flying and buying groceries. Of course I also worked for my grandfather in an orchard selling apples, no cash register just a cigar box and a coffee can for the tax, 3 cents on the dollar. If you couldn't figure the bill and the tax in your head you were useless. "Being comfortable with math is a way of life and an attitude" Mike McFadden mmcfadden@cmh.edu From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Dec 8 16:04:24 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) Message-ID: EMC and other disk storage manufacturers are trying to convince everybody to move all of the data online and just buy more disk arrays when you need them. We are trying to setup a system to archive medical images and are required to keep the image for at least 25 years. The 25 years is 7 years past the point the child turns 18. Of course that could change. The medical archive manufacturers all swear that online storage is the way to go. Of course their true interest is the next quarters profit margin. I am from the old school and like off line backups. Now the question is what kind of off line backup. I have old thermafax medical reports that are 35 years old and are basically unreadable. Film at least will survive if it is stored properly. I know we have 8" floppy data of CT images from the late 70's and probably 1600 bpi 9-track tapes. I don't even try to read them. Everybody is converting their 16mm cardiac angiography movies from film to CD's. I think I need to develop a film based technology. There probably is some sort of microfilm already around. If you want real long term storage I have heard that there are people working on 10,000 year storage methods, etched iridium plates. For some reason I seem to remember that the genealogy people in Salt Lake City, Utah are working with this. Mike McFadden mmcfadden@cmh.edu From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 8 15:06:15 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: <1135.377T600T4214173optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 8 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Apparently the actual data layer is located very near the label face > of the disc. Hence, the outer layer of the see-through face is quite > thick, and you may remove some without damaging the data. It worked > quite fine in the review. Ok, so I've been reading all the replies on this. And from what people are saying, I'm lead to believe that scratches on the non-label surface have no effect on the ability of the CD to be read? This goes totally against my experience with CDs, so I'd appreciate someone clarifying this. I'm under the assumption that I'm going to rub Colgate on the non-label side of my CD and then rub it circularly until the scratches are diminished. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 8 15:08:08 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: <1111.377T100T3753577optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 8 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Not really. This scheme is already implemented in one big French department > store (Lafayette?) in Paris. Webshoppers are assigned a "drone", basically a > young human male equipped with rollerskates, a headset and a helmet-mounted > webcam. You may then control the shopping drone as it roams around the shops > as you please by issuing vocal commands. I saw a news program about this. An interesting concept, but what happens when you need condoms or hemorrhoid cream or an enema bag? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 8 15:09:20 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > >On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > > > >> >> I like to tinker, but haven't found anybody that wants to pay me to do > >> >> it. > >> > > >> >It's called "inventions and patents". > >> > >> I have two patents and they still never let me tinker. > > > >Well, next time try to invent something that's marketable :) > > I didn't want to brag, but I invented the donut. Oh yeah, that was you? I improved on your invention by inventing the hole in the center (cost savings and easy to store on an extended finger). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mbg at world.std.com Fri Dec 8 14:10:23 2000 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? Message-ID: <200012082010.PAA06573@world.std.com> >I remeber reading that a hologram of a lens would refract light in the >same was as a real lens would. This concept has formed the basis for >the flight-of-fancy holodeck/holosuite concept from Star Trek. The holodeck supposedly uses both hologram projectors and transporter technology... I suspect it should also use shield technology, too... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ "Why yes, I do have a life...thanks for asking..." :-) From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 8 15:20:03 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Apple I on History Channel tonight at 7pm In-Reply-To: <027401c0615d$f9ca4750$02794ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Mike wrote: > History's Lost and Found show airing this evening... > http://www.historychannel.com/ontv/ The Apple-1 that Liza (the owner) shows off in this episode is THE first Apple-1. This has been confirmed by The Woz. It was given to her by Woz to use in her classroom. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From elvey at hal.com Fri Dec 8 16:27:56 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Order-of-magnitude (OT) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200012082227.OAA15708@civic.hal.com> "McFadden, Mike" wrote: > Slide rule battery never runs down. > Slide rule can be used to scrape ice off windshield. > Slide rule doesn't mind hot and cold temperature. > Slide rule also visible in direct sun light. Never use a Pickett slide ruler at the beach. Dwight From marvin at rain.org Fri Dec 8 16:38:10 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Digital Correspondent, socal References: Message-ID: <3A3162D2.4BA559C6@rain.org> Mike Ford wrote: > > Is there ANYTHING a ribbon isn't available for? > > BTW I have a couple good sized boxes of ribbons, that I "hope" to soon > spread out on something flat a take a couple pictures of, and get rid of. Remember the MacInker (or some name to that effect)? It seems to take care of re-inking old ribbons quite nicely. Only problem though with ribbons is that I have too many I have no idea what they go to :)! From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Dec 8 16:35:56 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? In-Reply-To: RE: CD's as parabolic mirrors? (Megan) References: <200012082010.PAA06573@world.std.com> Message-ID: <14897.25164.828851.304145@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 8, Megan wrote: > >I remeber reading that a hologram of a lens would refract light in the > >same was as a real lens would. This concept has formed the basis for > >the flight-of-fancy holodeck/holosuite concept from Star Trek. > > > The holodeck supposedly uses both hologram projectors and transporter > technology... I suspect it should also use shield technology, too... > The Trek world's holodecks don't have anything at all to do with holographic lens technology. They use a combination of holography (for background scenes and "wall extension") and transporter-style matter synthesis for "solid" objects. Yes, though, holographic lenses do work, are in widespread use, and have been around for quite some time. The most recent consumer application for them jumped out at me at a hamfest last summer. Some guy had dozens of cases of new, really cheap & cheesy handheld laser pointers. The more expensive ones (like $8 instead of $5) came with these little interchangeable "caps" that you could screw over the beam exit end. These different caps contained holographic lenses which would project different patterns or pictures or whatever on whatever you pointed it at. Yes, there are some of those things on the market that simply contain a piece of what looks like miniature slide film...but if you look around, you can find the ones with the holographic lenses. They kinda look like plastic diffraction gratings when viewd in normal light. -Dave McGuire From elvey at hal.com Fri Dec 8 16:37:47 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200012082237.OAA15716@civic.hal.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > On 8 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: > > > Apparently the actual data layer is located very near the label face > > of the disc. Hence, the outer layer of the see-through face is quite > > thick, and you may remove some without damaging the data. It worked > > quite fine in the review. > > Ok, so I've been reading all the replies on this. And from what people > are saying, I'm lead to believe that scratches on the non-label surface > have no effect on the ability of the CD to be read? This goes totally > against my experience with CDs, so I'd appreciate someone clarifying this. > > I'm under the assumption that I'm going to rub Colgate on the non-label > side of my CD and then rub it circularly until the scratches are > diminished. Hi Sam You are both right. The CD is read through the bottom material that is thicker. The top side has a think layer before it actually reaches that data part. The thickness of the bottom improves the ability to read through small scratches since the surface is farther from focus ( Hold your finger up close to your eye and look past it at something a few feet away. Notice that you only see fuzzy shading caused by your finger. ). They take advantage of this to see through small scratches. A good sized scratch on the top can go right to the data layer. Dwight From ahm at spies.com Fri Dec 8 16:42:49 2000 From: ahm at spies.com (Andreas Meyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: q: old dial-up MUD-like commercial game? In-Reply-To: <3A313E5C.6CD7F82F@hack.net>; from Ryan K. Brooks on Fri, Dec 08, 2000 at 02:02:36PM -0600 References: <3A313E5C.6CD7F82F@hack.net> Message-ID: <20001208174249.A30046@spies.com> Ryan K. Brooks writes: > Anyone remember having a multi-player D&D/MUD like game dial-up > service in their city? I'm thinking around 1985 or earlier... it was > some sort of a timeshare system with 8/16/24 ports that people could > dial in to at an hourly rate and play. As I recall it was some sort of > franchise and we had one here in Milwaukee (414 area code) that was > quite popular- I believe it was called Sceptre, but I'm not sure if that > was the name of the game/world/town, etc. The MUD was called "The Scepter of Goth". However, that was just one of the games available on the GameMaster, which is probably the system you're thinking of. GameMaster was an XT running QNX, with special multi-modem cards that only allowed 300 baud dial-ins. At the time, I was looking into possibly setting up a similar system just outside New York City, by either buying a franchise or just the source code so I could port it to a Unix box. However, I spoke to GameMaster's operator (Jim?) on the phone a few times and he managed to talk me out it. Apparently he was being jerked in various directions after having invested over $7000 in hardware, software and telephone lines. He said he wasn't allowed access to the source code so he could make changes or improvements. But it was a pretty neat MUD. Andy From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 8 17:34:23 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: (vaxman@uswest.net) References: Message-ID: <20001208233423.31328.qmail@brouhaha.com> Clint Wolff wrote: > Scratches on the bottom of the disk cause the servo system to lose > focus and/or tracking. This is why you will occasionally get a CD > to repeat a short section of music, similiar to skipping on an LP. Small scratches on the bottom of the disc do NOT impair the ability to focus on the pits (near the top of the disc) by any substantial amount. This is a deliberate factor in the designed thickness of the disc, the geometry of the pickup, and the characteristics of the objective lens. Furthermore, when they do interfere, this does NOT interfere with tracking because the loop filter for the servo deliberately does not react that quickly. The CD will not repeat unless: 1) The scratch is along a long enough section of track to overrun the interleave, and prevent both error correction (ECC) and concealment (interpolation). It is fairly uncommon for a single scratch to do this, but multiple scratches may well do so. 2) The player has to have badly written firmware, that forgets the timecode where it left off before the error. This is unfortunately far more common than it should be. References: standard IEC 60908 (1999-02): Audio Recording - Compact disc digital audio system - the definitive reference on the format, based on the original Red Book - available for purchase online at www.iec.ch _The Art of Digital Audio_ by John Watkinson, 2nd Edition (3rd Edition to be published this month) _Principles of Digital Audio_ by Ken C. Pohlman, 4th Edition Note that the CD-ROM format (standard ECMA-130, available free online from www.ecma.ch) is layered on top of the CD-Audio format, so an understanding of the latter is necessary to fully understand the former. The next layer up is usually the ISO 9660 file system. From jforbes at primenet.com Fri Dec 8 17:47:01 2000 From: jforbes at primenet.com (J Forbes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Data Archival Message-ID: <3A3172F5.50DC4B04@primenet.com> The key ingredient here, is that the data are stored on several hard drives...as I replace hard drives, there is a folder in each called "archive", which collects the info from the previous hard drive...and this archive folder is also copied to other computers via the lan. I wound't trust anything to only one copy, be it on a hard drive, floppy, cd, tape cartridge, or even a book stored in the basement :) Jim Sellam Wrote: > On Thu, 7 Dec 2000, J Forbes wrote: > > > It seems to me that nowadays we buy new hard drives with a few > > times more capacity every year or two. We also have several > > computers, many networked (at home, this is). > > > > I think that we may just keep all the info on hard drives, with > > an occasional CD-R backup, and it will get duplicated so many > > times over the years that we would be hard pressed to lose any > > data. > > And then one day the box it's stored in gets bumped a little too hard, or > when you try to fire it up in ten years something on it blows, or...? > > I can think of worse ways to archive data, but I wouldn't want to trust > anything long term to a hard drive. Unless you kept the data "alive" > meaning you kept it stored on a computer that is constantly being > backed-up and in service. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 8 17:45:54 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: (message from Sellam Ismail on Fri, 8 Dec 2000 13:06:15 -0800 (PST)) References: Message-ID: <20001208234554.31512.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I'm under the assumption that I'm going to rub Colgate on the non-label > side of my CD and then rub it circularly until the scratches are > diminished. I recommend *against* rubbing circularly, as this is exactly the way that you would *cause* problems, since it will be along a track. Rub radially. From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 8 18:00:29 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Use for a 3270 terminal References: <000501c05f94$4a9dada0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> <007f01c05fdf$35b14690$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <005c01c06173$c827f8d0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Kenzie" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2000 6:49 PM Subject: Re: Use for a 3270 terminal > > I'm located in Ottawa. I'll double check the model number > when I get to the basement. it's a 3151, I thought there was another but I can't find it any more. From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Fri Dec 8 18:11:45 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: q: old dial-up MUD-like commercial game? In-Reply-To: <3A313E5C.6CD7F82F@hack.net> from "Ryan K. Brooks" at "Dec 8, 2000 02:02:36 pm" Message-ID: <200012090011.QAA11490@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Anyone remember having a multi-player D&D/MUD like game dial-up > service in their city? I'm thinking around 1985 or earlier... it was > some sort of a timeshare system with 8/16/24 ports that people could > dial in to at an hourly rate and play. As I recall it was some sort of > franchise and we had one here in Milwaukee (414 area code) that was > quite popular- I believe it was called Sceptre, but I'm not sure if that > was the name of the game/world/town, etc. ca. 1985 chat lines were starting to be popular. The ones I frequented when I was in Madison, WI weren't really D&D type things or MUDs as such. The BeeLine was Apple II based. Don't know what hardware exactly. I was bigger into Warlord Chat which was an IBM PC talking to 4 Atari 400s each handling 2 modems. The PC-Atari interface was an impressive bit of wire wrap, or so I was told. I never saw it first hand. Eric From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 8 18:03:01 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: dalnet #classic_computers IRC channel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <378.378T50T633667optimus@canit.se> Gene Buckle skrev: >Better yet, head over to irc.deltasoft.com and don't worry about being >bothered at *all*. It's a standalone server without any IRC net >connections. But then you can't participate in #c64warez_n_romZ at the same time. ^_- OTOH, that is client dependent. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Vi m?ste vara r?dda om varandra - det ?r v?rt enda reciproka pronomen. From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 8 18:57:26 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enoug h... In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3A1@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > In most of the US, putting "engineer" near your name doesn't require that > > you hold an engineering certification. For instance, my official title > > at my day job is "senior software engineer" but I've never taken a single > > software nor engineering course, much less certification exam, in my life. > > False. In most states of the U.S., if you represent yourself as an engineer > of any kind, and you are not a licensed engineer, you are committing a > crime, albeit a misdemeanor. In some states at least, that is only true if you try to market your talents directly on the open market. If you work for an organization who does the marketing you can call yourself whatever you want - except for Registered Professional Engineer. - don > Texas is leading the nation in trying to change this. > > -dq > From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Dec 8 19:42:34 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) References: Message-ID: <3A318E0A.A3958379@idirect.com> >McFadden, Mike wrote: > [Snip] > go. Of course their true interest is the next quarters profit margin. Jerome Fine replies: One word - GREED! I have rarely seen a company that believes that their first responsibility is to meet the needs of the customer as best they can. What is not realized is that over the long term, that is also best for the vendor. The problem is that share prices over the short run are more important. The other problem is that no matter what the size of the online storage, a backup MUST still be kept. I suppose that tape is OK for this since it is only a matter of days, not even weeks. > I am from the old school and like off line backups. Now the question is > what kind of off line backup. I have old thermafax medical reports that are > 35 years old and are basically unreadable. Film at least will survive if it > is stored properly. I know we have 8" floppy data of CT images from the > late 70's and probably 1600 bpi 9-track tapes. I don't even try to read > them. I still have some 8" floppy data as well, although only from the 1980s. But, I no longer regard any tapes that are more than 5 years old as being a reasonable media. Every tape more than 2 years old should be written again to keep a backup current. Of course, I have some tapes that are more than 10 years old, but I would never rely on them even if I had 20 copies unless I had just read at least 10 of the copies successfully within the past 6 months. > Everybody is converting their 16mm cardiac angiography movies from film to > CD's. No evidence, but CDs seem like the best media for the next 30 years. Key point is that it is already machine readable - that aspect is so important! > I think I need to develop a film based technology. There probably is some > sort of microfilm already around. I agree that microfilm is OK for some purposes, but each situation must be looked at individually. I hear that NASA has barns full of tapes which can no longer be read. If they could have been transferred to CD before that happened, the data could have been saved. Likely CD media and low cost did not arrive in time. The window of opportunity was probably never there to start with - likely by more than 10 years and maybe even 20 years of a mismatch before the first tapes started to go bad. > If you want real long term storage I have heard that there are people > working on 10,000 year storage methods, etched iridium plates. For some > reason I seem to remember that the genealogy people in Salt Lake City, Utah > are working with this. This is the real reason that I am sending a reply. If plans are being made to save data for at least 10,000 years, then I suspect that it is also more than reasonable to ask - no demand - that operating systems are able to handle dates far into the future as opposed to just the next few years in many cases. I am in the process of completing Y2K patches for an old hobby version of V5.03 of the RT-11 Operating System. Fortunately, it achieved hobby status and it is available for download. But I do not think that stopping at year 2099 is reasonable at this point. The patches should be able to carry the code to at least year 9999. I tend to feel that if storage methods are being looked at which can last for 10,000 years, then perhaps the almost trivial extra effort should also be made to allow all code to handle up to the year 9999 at this point so long as any effort is being made to extend the date window for a program in the first place. Many people have told me that I am crazy to even consider this possibility, let alone do the work, but why save data for 10,000 years? Does anyone have any advice as to how to handle the problem that the calendar can't be predicted exactly so far into the future? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 8 19:25:27 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1012.378T1350T1455455optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On 8 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Apparently the actual data layer is located very near the label face >> of the disc. Hence, the outer layer of the see-through face is quite >> thick, and you may remove some without damaging the data. It worked >> quite fine in the review. >Ok, so I've been reading all the replies on this. And from what people >are saying, I'm lead to believe that scratches on the non-label surface >have no effect on the ability of the CD to be read? This goes totally >against my experience with CDs, so I'd appreciate someone clarifying this. Of course scratches will make reading difficult. After all, these scratches refract the reading laser. The point is, that even though there is a scratch on the non-label face, you may sand-paper away the scratch without damaging the actual data layer, which is located far beneath the face. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Menyn ?r inte lika sexig som telnet, det ?r h?rt men sant. Petri Oksanen #38 p? SUGA BBS From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 8 19:27:20 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: What tools do you carry, always In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <948.378T1000T1474849optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On 8 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> Not really. This scheme is already implemented in one big French department >> store (Lafayette?) in Paris. Webshoppers are assigned a "drone", basically >> a young human male equipped with rollerskates, a headset and a >> helmet-mounted webcam. You may then control the shopping drone as it roams >> around the shops as you please by issuing vocal commands. >I saw a news program about this. An interesting concept, but what happens >when you need condoms or hemorrhoid cream or an enema bag? You tell your personal shopper to go get it. Of course, you'd need to tell him in French, but if you're shopping from another country, what is there to fear? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Georgie beundrade stor?gt sin pappa som med v?ldsamma slag gick l?s p? det stora tr?det. Han badade i svett, och den muskul?sa kroppen bl?nkte i solskenet. Hon ?lskade honom. Lady Georgie, TMS 1983 From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 8 19:10:08 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: <3A318E0A.A3958379@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > Many people have told me that I am crazy to even consider this > possibility, let alone do the work, but why save data for 10,000 years? > Does anyone have any advice as to how to handle the problem that > the calendar can't be predicted exactly so far into the future? I don't know...will it matter? Are you intending that people will still be using these operating systems 8,000 years from now or are you only concerned about the data itself? Still, it wouldn't hurt to add another digit in the year field. Of course, by that time you'll be dead, so what do you care? Let some future genius figure it out :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Dec 8 21:14:11 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: A Proposal for Y2K Patches for V5.03 of RT-11 Message-ID: <3A31A383.C759E584@idirect.com> For a number of years, I have been producing Y2K patches for various versions of RT-11 for commercial purposes. At this time, I would like to produce a set for V5.03 of RT-11. This set will initially be for hobby users and will be made available free of charge to anyone who complies with the current hobby license agreements available for hobby users. Later, these same Y2K patches will be made available to all users in the RT-11 community. This proposal is being circulated so as to alert those interested parties as well as to allow for useful feedback that will allow the best choice to be made for the base year. I have been attempting for months now to decide what are the reasons for doing all of this, but I finally decided that anyone who understands will not care and anyone who does not will not realize why I bothered. So the following criteria were used: (a) One requirement will be that dates can be maintained by the RT-11 operating system and associated software for a considerable period into the future. In addition, there is at present a unique opportunity to extend the date range back into the past. The first will be done. The second is open to question. (b) Any method which is proposed MUST, in my opinion, be able to function with and be compatible with all current software which handles dates for the ranges for which those programs were designed and written - so long as the actual dates being represented by the date words (there must obviously now be more than one) are in the same range as the values for which the programs were designed. Thus, all programs designed to function only from 1973 to 1999 must be able to do so. For V5.07 of RT-11, as well as software written by others (myself included) for the dates from 1972 to 2099, the same criteria MUST apply. This means that all the different versions of all different software can function correctly and coexist between 1973 and 1999. From 2000 to 2099, only the Y2K versions can coexist with this new software and prior to 1972 and after 2099, only the Y10K versions will function correctly. (c) One additional word shall be reserved which holds the extra bits required to specify the year before 1972 and after 2099. A number of other technical details are also available, but until a decision is made on the base year, it is doubtful that they are important. I have a number of points to consider to help in choosing a base year, but until I see some feedback on the basic proposal, even just the Y2K patches for V5.03 of RT-11, I doubt that there is much point in presenting them. If the above proposal is satisfactory, then coding will continue for the Y10K modifications for V5.03 of RT-11. Feedback is requested, especially on the question of using extended dates prior to 1972. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 8 22:28:04 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > > > Many people have told me that I am crazy to even consider this > > possibility, let alone do the work, but why save data for 10,000 years? > > Does anyone have any advice as to how to handle the problem that > > the calendar can't be predicted exactly so far into the future? > > I don't know...will it matter? Are you intending that people will still > be using these operating systems 8,000 years from now or are you only > concerned about the data itself? > > Still, it wouldn't hurt to add another digit in the year field. Of > course, by that time you'll be dead, so what do you care? Let some future > genius figure it out :) But, of course, that is how we got into the Y2K problem originally. - don > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 8 22:41:53 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:33 2005 Subject: Compaticard Message-ID: I will entertain offers for a 'new in the box' CompatiCard I with original manual and software disk. This unit will handle all 8" drives, both single and double density, 5.25" drives, same, and 3.5" drives of 720k and 1.44mb persuasion. It is not as convenient as the CompatiCard 4, but will cope with all but 2.88mb drives. I also have a used Compaticard II which will handle 3.5" and 5.25" drives, but will not handle 8" drives. It comes with the latest software and a photocopy of the manual. If interested, please reply by private email. If there is no interest or reasonable offers, I will put them up on one of the auction sites. - don From sethm at loomcom.com Sat Dec 9 03:21:52 2000 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Digital Correspondent, socal In-Reply-To: <200012081339.OAA03529@webmail1.xs4all.nl>; from quapla@xs4all.nl on Fri, Dec 08, 2000 at 02:39:45PM +0100 References: <200012081339.OAA03529@webmail1.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <20001209012152.A4793@loomcom.com> On Fri, Dec 08, 2000 at 02:39:45PM +0100, The Wanderer wrote: > BTW, are there still ribbons availabe (partno?) Yes, they're still available from GENICOM and a number of other suppliers. Available in 6-packs only. Part number LA12R-06. I bought one box (probably a lifetime supply) for mine within the last 6 months or so. -Seth From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Sat Dec 9 05:47:14 2000 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Nerds In-Reply-To: <20001209012152.A4793@loomcom.com> References: <200012081339.OAA03529@webmail1.xs4all.nl> <200012081339.OAA03529@webmail1.xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001209064453.00a88e10@popmail.voicenet.com> This is probably off topic and it may be old but I never heard it before: Why do nerds confuse Halloween and Christmas? , , , , , Because Oct31 = Dec25 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From mark_k at iname.com Sat Dec 9 07:22:40 2000 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: MO question Message-ID: Hi, On Fri, 8 Dec 2000 Douglas Quebbeman wrote in reply to a message by John Foust: > > In a nice freebie haul that included a 128M Quadra 950, a 660AV, > > a Syquest external, an HP ScanJet IIc, DeskWriter C, there was > > an Optima Concorde 600 meg magneto-optical drive. This is > > the Sony SMO-E501 mechanism. > > That's an odd-sized capacity... are these 5.25 inch carts, or > 3.25 inch carts? If the latter, are you sure they aren't 640MB > capacity? Not odd really. The first generation of (ISO standard) 5.25" MO drives can work with 600 and 650MB media. 650MB disks have a sector size of 1024 bytes, but some operating systems & software only work with 512-byte sectors. If the drive was marketed for use with a particular operating system or software package that required 512-byte sector media, that would explain the 600 designation on the case. With appropriate driver software, Macs can use 1024-byte sector media. If you want to use it in conjunction with a modern PC, both 600 and 650MB disks will work fine under Windows 9x, no drivers needed. The SMO-E501 is a first-generation MO drive, albeit not the first first- generation drive that Sony made (if that makes any sense). Circa 1992 I think. Let me know if you would like specs or jumper setting info for the MO drive. -- Mark From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 9 09:09:16 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: GOOD scrounging day! Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001209100916.3b27d214@mailhost.intellistar.net> OK while the rest of you are freezing and getting ready for Christams, we here in Florida and enjoying beautifull wheather and still fighting over the election! A few of us are taking advantage of the weather and are out scrounging for old computers and other interesting stuff. That's what I did yesterday. My haul included a Morrow Micro Decision, a Tektronix 8002a Developement system and the external 8" disk drives, an immersion cooler, six or seven Busch & Lomb model 21 Spectrophotometers and a manual for my IBM MD-2 Maintenance Device. I ran out of car before I ran out of goodies so I left behind a Tektronix 4016 terminal, a tektronix 4024 terminal, an ADM-3A terminal and an ADDS 25 terminal. One of my coolest finds was a Paratronics model 100a Logic Analyzer with the manual. This must be one of the first logic analyzers on the market. It's about the size of a cigar box and uses a scope of other monitor with an X-Y input for the display. The manual is dated 1977 and it says that this an improved version of the one that was in the cover story of the Feb 1977 issue of Popular Electronics. (Does anyone have that issue?) The mauual gives example of how to use it with the Altair, Intel 8080, Motorola 6800, Fairchld F-8, National SC/MP, Z-80, Bit Slice CPUs and the RCA Cosmac. This will make a nice companion piece for my Altair. Also spotted a Color Monitor for the TI-99/4. It's nothing but a color TV with the tuner removed. I knew RS sold this kind of thing but I didn't know that TI did also. I didn't pick it up but if anyone wants it, contact me and I'll tell you where it's at. It's in a surplus store and I have no idea what they want for it. I'm looking for info on the Morrow Micro Decision. If anyone knows much about them, let me know. Joe From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Dec 9 08:41:55 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) References: Message-ID: <3A3244B2.5FC7579@idirect.com> >Don Maslin wrote: > On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Fri, 8 Dec 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > > > Many people have told me that I am crazy to even consider this > > > possibility, let alone do the work, but why save data for 10,000 years? > > > Does anyone have any advice as to how to handle the problem that > > > the calendar can't be predicted exactly so far into the future? > > I don't know...will it matter? Are you intending that people will still > > be using these operating systems 8,000 years from now or are you only > > concerned about the data itself? > > Still, it wouldn't hurt to add another digit in the year field. Of > > course, by that time you'll be dead, so what do you care? Let some future > > genius figure it out :) > But, of course, that is how we got into the Y2K problem originally. Jerome Fine replies: And that will continue to happen so long as the most important aspect is short term revenue considerations. I understand that 2038 (or around that date) is when 32 bit C subroutines will have a problem. Hopefully by then, most code will be 64 bit and the problem will no longer exist. The operating system that I am interested in did not get the Y2K patches and the current version still costs $ US 1600 for the distribution media and document set. And if the user does not have a license for the last revision from 1992, a license is also specified for another $ US 900. Since the old version from 1985 is a hobby version and free to use under certain restricted conditions, I want to make a Y2K version available for hobby users and it will not be that much more effort to bring it to a Y10K level. The only real question is the calendar which will likely have a leap year or two omitted in the next 8000 years. But which one is still in question. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Dec 9 09:21:05 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: MO question References: Message-ID: <3A324DE1.8EB429DE@idirect.com> >Mark wrote: > The first generation of (ISO standard) 5.25" MO drives can work with 600 and > 650MB media. > > 650MB disks have a sector size of 1024 bytes, but some operating systems & > software only work with 512-byte sectors. If the drive was marketed for use > with a particular operating system or software package that required 512-byte > sector media, that would explain the 600 designation on the case. With > appropriate driver software, Macs can use 1024-byte sector media. If you want > to use it in conjunction with a modern PC, both 600 and 650MB disks will work > fine under Windows 9x, no drivers needed. > > The SMO-E501 is a first-generation MO drive, albeit not the first first- > generation drive that Sony made (if that makes any sense). Circa 1992 I think. > > Let me know if you would like specs or jumper setting info for the MO drive. Jerome Fine replies: As far as I know, the first erasable magneto optical drive made by Sony was the SMO D501 which REQUIRED an SMO C501 as a separate controller between the host adapter and the D501 drive. The one big advantage was that the C501 could manage two D501 drives at the same time. But since many host adapters could not manage a C501 controller with two D501 drives, Sony probably realized that the option was not really useful. From what I remember, it was around 1990 when I sold a C501/D501/D501 configuration to a company which needed multiple copies of about 1 GByte of off-site storage. Since the files were in groups of about 300 MBytes, a copy from one drive to the other was a very simple solution. The total physical size of the storage was reduced from three large cabinets to a box that could hold 30 5 1/4" floppies - and that was not one copy but three as opposed to one copy in the three large cabinets. A total of 3 cartridges were needed and 9 cartridges held 3 copies. A copy from each side took about an hour (including a separate verify operation) for each 300 MBytes, so over a lunch hour, one backup could easily be made each day. Since a complete backup was rarely required (changes were usually only about once a month to any of the five 300 MByte sections) more than once a month, that was a very reasonable way of handling the situation. The SMO E501 was, as far as I know, the first version which combined the C501/D501 into a single unit with the controller embedded within the hardware of the drive. Since it is rare for more than even 4 drives to be connected to a single host adapter (except these days when a RAID configuration has a whole bank of a dozen or more SCSI hard drives), the embedded controller solution seems to work quite well. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sat Dec 9 12:54:07 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Scratched plastic screen Message-ID: <000b01c06211$68e0c160$0264640a@mediaone.net> Hi all, I have a Sega Gamegear with a badly scratched screen. THe scratches are sobad that they distord the display. Is there an easy way to polish it? A hard way? I tried baking soda and dremel all morning but it's still bad and I've done some damage to the case with the dremel (yeah I should be more carful with power tools) Thanks Francois From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 9 11:49:45 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Scratched plastic screen References: <000b01c06211$68e0c160$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: <000901c06208$6ad24740$1192fea9@idcomm.com> There's a material, basically a buffing rouge, available at crafts shops and some plastic retailers, that works better than the baking soda. The problem with baking soda is that it's not aggressive enough and therefore requires a lot of rubbing that works out badly for other plastic parts. The somewhat more abrasive rouge, which is mixed with a lubricant of some sort, takes off more of the plastic but doesn't require as much effort. That's the same thing I use for cleaning CD's, so it seems to work OK. I'd advise you to avoid the Dremel tool, since it gets the plastic hot and thereby risks permanently distoring the optical properties of the lens. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue & Francois" To: Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 11:54 AM Subject: Scratched plastic screen > Hi all, > I have a Sega Gamegear with a badly scratched screen. THe scratches are > sobad that they distord the display. > Is there an easy way to polish it? > A hard way? > I tried baking soda and dremel all morning but it's still bad and I've done > some damage to the case with the dremel (yeah I should be more carful with > power tools) > Thanks > Francois > > > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Dec 9 12:17:46 2000 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Scratched plastic screen Message-ID: <81.4011b30.2763d14a@aol.com> In a message dated 12/9/00 12:52:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, edick@idcomm.com writes: > There's a material, basically a buffing rouge, available at crafts shops and > some plastic retailers, that works better than the baking soda. The problem > with baking soda is that it's not aggressive enough and therefore requires a > lot of rubbing that works out badly for other plastic parts. The somewhat > more abrasive rouge, which is mixed with a lubricant of some sort, takes off > more of the plastic but doesn't require as much effort. That's the same > thing I use for cleaning CD's, so it seems to work OK. > > I'd advise you to avoid the Dremel tool, since it gets the plastic hot and > thereby risks permanently distoring the optical properties of the lens. > > Dick I have also heard of using toothpaste, but has anyone ever tried it? DB Young ICQ: 29427634 hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! http://www.nothingtodo.org From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 9 12:31:04 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Scratched plastic screen References: <81.4011b30.2763d14a@aol.com> Message-ID: <004301c0620e$306d2f60$1192fea9@idcomm.com> For most plastics, it might be better to have a soap-and-water lubricated abrasive. That would get rid of the plastic particles so they don't smear, though it would require MUCH more abrasive compound. With toothpaste, at least in the context of soft molded plastics, it might do more to smudge and discolor the plastic, as it is mixed with the surface. I've used it for polishing metals quite successfully, though. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 11:17 AM Subject: Re: Scratched plastic screen > In a message dated 12/9/00 12:52:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, > edick@idcomm.com writes: > > > There's a material, basically a buffing rouge, available at crafts shops and > > some plastic retailers, that works better than the baking soda. The > problem > > with baking soda is that it's not aggressive enough and therefore requires > a > > lot of rubbing that works out badly for other plastic parts. The somewhat > > more abrasive rouge, which is mixed with a lubricant of some sort, takes > off > > more of the plastic but doesn't require as much effort. That's the same > > thing I use for cleaning CD's, so it seems to work OK. > > > > I'd advise you to avoid the Dremel tool, since it gets the plastic hot and > > thereby risks permanently distoring the optical properties of the lens. > > > > Dick > > I have also heard of using toothpaste, but has anyone ever tried it? > > DB Young ICQ: 29427634 > > hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! > > http://www.nothingtodo.org > > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Dec 9 13:07:09 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Nerds In-Reply-To: Nerds (Gene Ehrich) References: <200012081339.OAA03529@webmail1.xs4all.nl> <4.3.2.7.2.20001209064453.00a88e10@popmail.voicenet.com> Message-ID: <14898.33501.453454.907862@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 9, Gene Ehrich wrote: > This is probably off topic and it may be old but I never heard it before: > > Why do nerds confuse Halloween and Christmas? > > > Because Oct31 = Dec25 *GROAN!!* :) -Dave McGuire From aclark at envirolink.org Sat Dec 9 14:07:40 2000 From: aclark at envirolink.org (Arthur Clark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: WANTED: PC Transporter for //e In-Reply-To: <000b01c06211$68e0c160$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: <5.0.1.4.0.20001209150321.02089200@manatee.envirolink.org> If you have an Applied Engineering PC Transporter for the Apple //e, and are willing to consider selling it, please contact me. I would also consider buying a IIgs system that includes a PC Transporter. Thanks. Arthur Clark From russ at rbcs.8m.com Sat Dec 9 14:50:11 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Scratched plastic screen In-Reply-To: <000b01c06211$68e0c160$0264640a@mediaone.net> Message-ID: I use Permatex platic polish - worked for the clear canopies on fighter jets so it should work on a GameBoy. I bought my last can at an auto parts store that stocks autobody supplies. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sue & Francois Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 12:54 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Scratched plastic screen Hi all, I have a Sega Gamegear with a badly scratched screen. THe scratches are sobad that they distord the display. Is there an easy way to polish it? A hard way? I tried baking soda and dremel all morning but it's still bad and I've done some damage to the case with the dremel (yeah I should be more carful with power tools) Thanks Francois From donm at cts.com Sat Dec 9 14:56:01 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: GOOD scrounging day! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001209100916.3b27d214@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > OK while the rest of you are freezing and getting ready for Christams, we > here in Florida and enjoying beautifull wheather and still fighting over > the election! A few of us are taking advantage of the weather and are out > scrounging for old computers and other interesting stuff. That's what I did > yesterday. My haul included a Morrow Micro Decision, a Tektronix 8002a > Developement system and the external 8" disk drives, an immersion cooler, > six or seven Busch & Lomb model 21 Spectrophotometers and a manual for my > IBM MD-2 Maintenance Device. I ran out of car before I ran out of goodies > so I left behind a Tektronix 4016 terminal, a tektronix 4024 terminal, an > ADM-3A terminal and an ADDS 25 terminal. > > One of my coolest finds was a Paratronics model 100a Logic Analyzer with > the manual. This must be one of the first logic analyzers on the market. > It's about the size of a cigar box and uses a scope of other monitor with > an X-Y input for the display. The manual is dated 1977 and it says that > this an improved version of the one that was in the cover story of the Feb > 1977 issue of Popular Electronics. (Does anyone have that issue?) The > mauual gives example of how to use it with the Altair, Intel 8080, Motorola > 6800, Fairchld F-8, National SC/MP, Z-80, Bit Slice CPUs and the RCA > Cosmac. This will make a nice companion piece for my Altair. > > Also spotted a Color Monitor for the TI-99/4. It's nothing but a color > TV with the tuner removed. I knew RS sold this kind of thing but I didn't > know that TI did also. I didn't pick it up but if anyone wants it, contact > me and I'll tell you where it's at. It's in a surplus store and I have no > idea what they want for it. > > I'm looking for info on the Morrow Micro Decision. If anyone knows much > about them, let me know. Which one is it, Joe? I am fairly familiar with the 5.25" floppy ones, the 2, 3, 5, 11, and nn. - don > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 9 18:33:04 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: GOOD scrounging day! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20001209100916.3b27d214@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001209193304.0cdfc9c2@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:56 PM 12/9/00 -0800, you wrote: > > >> >> I'm looking for info on the Morrow Micro Decision. If anyone knows much >> about them, let me know. > >Which one is it, Joe? I am fairly familiar with the 5.25" floppy ones, >the 2, 3, 5, 11, and nn. > - don > I don't know what model it is. It's not marked on the model anywhere. The serial number is 34-22965 if that helps. I searched the web but didn't find out much. A lot of sites mention the Morrow but none of them had pictures or much of a description. One site said that it they had two drives, then they were MD-2s. Mine has two HH drives but it doesn't look like his. I'm in the process of adding it to my web site and I should have links in there soon but in the mean time you can look at the pictures directly at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/morrow/front.jpg" and "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/morrow/back.jpg". Also here's one for the Paratronics Logic Analyzer; "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/morrow/paratron.jpg". I've scanned the cover of the Paratronics manual and I'll be posting it too. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 9 18:32:43 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: GOOD scrounging day! More Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001209193243.32377c42@mailhost.intellistar.net> I just finished posting some pictures and a short blurb about the Morrow Micro Decision computer and the Paratronics logic analyzer on my website. You can find links to both of them at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/joespage.htm". BTW I left a few things off my list of yesterday's finds. Two Heathkit Hero-1 manuals and a HP Portable Plus and a 9114 disk drive. Joe From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Fri Dec 8 08:49:01 2000 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Dissecting a TZ30 drive In-Reply-To: Chuck McManis's message of "Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:07:01 -0600" Message-ID: <87hf4fotnm.fsf@yodacity.local> >>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck McManis writes: Chuck> I have on my desk a TZ30 (half height TK50 drive) and it Chuck> has a tape inside of it. Powering it up and pressing unload Chuck> starts a rewind and then it gives up (all lights Chuck> flash). I'm guessing the tape presense sensor is dirty or Chuck> otherwise disabled but to get to it I really would like to Chuck> remove the existing tape. Unfortuately I cannot find how to Chuck> manually "unlock" the drive. Clues anyone? I extracted a TZ30 from a "storage expansion" box that used to be connected to a alpha station. The drive is SCSI so that it was trivial to use it in my PC. The load system seems extremly unreliable to me: any small failure when loading/unloading the tape might easly require disassemble it. I performed a deep dust cleaning by disassembling it. I guess it is fairly easy to disassemble and re-assemble it. Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Dec 9 19:08:18 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Chad on eBay Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001209190540.02a53720@pc> Florida ballot Hollerith card chad is going for $20-40 +$3-7 S/H on eBay. In some cases, the *single* chad is behind glass in its own 8x10 frame. - John From vaxman at uswest.net Sat Dec 9 11:37:32 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Dissecting a TZ30 drive In-Reply-To: <87hf4fotnm.fsf@yodacity.local> Message-ID: On 8 Dec 2000, Rodrigo Ventura wrote: > >>>>> "Chuck" == Chuck McManis writes: > > Chuck> I have on my desk a TZ30 (half height TK50 drive) and it > Chuck> has a tape inside of it. Powering it up and pressing unload > Chuck> starts a rewind and then it gives up (all lights > Chuck> flash). I'm guessing the tape presense sensor is dirty or > Chuck> otherwise disabled but to get to it I really would like to > Chuck> remove the existing tape. Unfortuately I cannot find how to > Chuck> manually "unlock" the drive. Clues anyone? You need remove the cover from the take up reel, and see if the tape is still hooked on the leader. If the tape is completly rewound and unhooked, there is a small selenoid on the lower right side (looking at the front) that needs to be pulled out to unlock the tape. You should be able to operate the handle then. > I extracted a TZ30 from a "storage expansion" box that used to > be connected to a alpha station. The drive is SCSI so that it was > trivial to use it in my PC. > > The load system seems extremly unreliable to me: any small > failure when loading/unloading the tape might easly require > disassemble it. > The load system is fairly reliable, with a failure rate of < 1 out of 1000 (I actually measured this on the TK50/TK70 about 10 years ago)... If you load a backup tape every day, this is about 1 failure every 2.5 years. A more common failure I saw was the tab on the end of the leader breaking off. I finally got the (3rd party) field service guy to leave a couple replacement leaders, and I fixed them myself... It's my understanding the Quantum DLT (Quantum bought the DEC disk group, and got the tape group thrown in for free) uses the same loader mechanism still. Rumor has it they are redesigning it for the next generation (Super DLT?)... clint From vaxman at uswest.net Sat Dec 9 11:41:26 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: OT: telnetd for Win98 Message-ID: Sorry for the OT, but y'all are the brightest computer savvy folks I know :) I'm looking for a telnet server (not client) for Windows 98 (Second edition)... Something that will let me log in, and give me the equivalent to a command window... I'm trying to set up a method of putting VHDL simulations on idle PCs at work :) clint From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 9 20:43:05 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Heathkit Fall 1978 catalog now on-line; H-8, H-11, H-9 and ET-3400. In-Reply-To: <20001208170919.83535.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001209214305.35c7de44@mailhost.intellistar.net> Ethan, You're welcome. Believe it or not but about ten years ago I had a FULL set of docs for the H11. I kept them for a long time until I found someone that would preserve them. That was before my last move and I've lost track of the guy that I gave them to. Joe At 09:09 AM 12/8/00 -0800, you wrote: > >--- Joe wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I just finished scanning all of the computer related pages from my Fall >> 1978 Heathkit catalag and posting them on the web... > >Thank you for these. I have been (slowly) restoring an H-11 I recovered >from the crawlspace of a former boss. We did custom DEC work about 12-14 >years ago on his H-11 (KDF-11) and my 11/23 (the target system was an 11/73 >w/4Mb RAM, Fuji Eagle, the works, running TSX-11 - I loved the fact that I >could develop on a system I paid $300 for and deliver code to a machine that >cost >$10K). > >I'm still on the lookout for the schematics for the Heathkit floppy interface. >Mine siezes the bus such that on power-on, I never get an ODT prompt. If I >put a gap in the Qbus, I can run the CPU, see the I/O registers on the floppy >card, etc., but, of course, it doesn't boot up fully - it seems to read in >the boot block, but as soon as RT-11 turns up interrupts, because of the >break in the grant chain, they, of course, never come. I really just need >to know what chips have their fingers in the interrupt handling and to probably >just replace them. My board is socketed and I have checked all the TTL chips >with an IC tester. I'm down to the Heath/DEC bus driver/receiver parts. > >Thanks, > >-ethan > > > >===== >Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to >vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > >The original webpage address is still going away. The >permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > >See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. >http://shopping.yahoo.com/ > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Dec 9 20:56:09 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Chad on eBay In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001209190540.02a53720@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001209185559.02ffed00@208.226.86.10> Hey you heard it here first :-) --Chuck At 07:08 PM 12/9/00 -0600, you wrote: >Florida ballot Hollerith card chad is going for $20-40 +$3-7 S/H >on eBay. In some cases, the *single* chad is behind glass in >its own 8x10 frame. > >- John From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 9 21:26:03 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Chad on eBay In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001209190540.02a53720@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001209222603.35bfa612@mailhost.intellistar.net> LOL! I'd heard that it cost the Democrats an average of $30 per vote so the price sounds about right. Joe At 07:08 PM 12/9/00 -0600, you wrote: > >Florida ballot Hollerith card chad is going for $20-40 +$3-7 S/H >on eBay. In some cases, the *single* chad is behind glass in >its own 8x10 frame. > >- John > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 9 23:29:51 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Osborne manuals Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001210002951.35c7cd62@mailhost.intellistar.net> Here's the list of the Osborne Manuals and software that I could find. I'm planning on sending them to Josh for him to scan. Does anyone else have any other manuals? Joe Osborne computer books and original software disks. 1) Osborne “Approved Software” binder with original disks: Osborne Executive CP/M Plus ver 3.0 System disk Osborne Executive CP/M Plus ver 3.0 General Utilities disk Osborne Executive CP/M Plus ver 3.0 Advanced Utilities disk Osborne Executive CP/M Plus ver 5.21/2.38 MBASIC/CBASIC disk Osborne Executive CP/M Plus ver IV.12.B USCD P-System disk Osborne Executive CP/M Plus ver 1.12/1.00 Super Calc with SDI disk Osborne Executive CP/M Plus ver 3.30 WordStar/Mailmerge disk Osborne Executive CP/M Plus ver 2.00 WordStar Install disk Osborne Executive CP/M Plus ver 1.06 Personal Pearl (6 disks) 2) “Osborne Executive Guides” box with: Volume 1 Mastering the Osborne Executive (PB) Volume 2 Working with Text and Spreadsheets (PB) Volume 3 Managing Information with Personal Pearl (PB) Volume 4 Operating Systems (PB) 3) “Osborne Executive Reference Guide” box with: Volume 0 Beginner’s Guide (PB) Executive Reference Guide binder with: Executive Reference Guide (PB) and loose notes inside 4) “Osborne 1 User’s Reference Guide” book (PB) 5) Osborne “Approved Software” binder with: Personal Pearl Easy Tutorial User’s Guide (loose pages) Personal Pearl Advanced Tutorial User’s Guide (loose pages) Personal Pearl Reference Manual (loose pages) 6) “Osborne 1 Technical Manual” binder Osborne 1 Technical Manual (a BIG manual) (loose pages) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 9 23:35:39 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Chad on eBay In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001209185559.02ffed00@208.226.86.10> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001209190540.02a53720@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001210003539.35b72e32@mailhost.intellistar.net> I thought about getting some old punch card chad and selling it on E-OverPay but I'm sure Gore would sue someone and claim that they were really intended as votes for him! Joe At 06:56 PM 12/9/00 -0800, you wrote: >Hey you heard it here first :-) >--Chuck > >At 07:08 PM 12/9/00 -0600, you wrote: > >>Florida ballot Hollerith card chad is going for $20-40 +$3-7 S/H >>on eBay. In some cases, the *single* chad is behind glass in >>its own 8x10 frame. >> >>- John > > > From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Sun Dec 10 00:51:13 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Scratched plastic screen References: <000b01c06211$68e0c160$0264640a@mediaone.net> <000901c06208$6ad24740$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <006e01c06275$9691b100$0264640a@mediaone.net> Thanks for the tip, I'll try to find some of that compound. I was also thinking about toothpaste but as you said in another post it's probably better for metals and teeth. Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Erlacher" To: Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 9:49 AM Subject: Re: Scratched plastic screen > There's a material, basically a buffing rouge, available at crafts shops and > some plastic retailers, that works better than the baking soda. The problem > with baking soda is that it's not aggressive enough and therefore requires a > lot of rubbing that works out badly for other plastic parts. The somewhat > more abrasive rouge, which is mixed with a lubricant of some sort, takes off > more of the plastic but doesn't require as much effort. That's the same > thing I use for cleaning CD's, so it seems to work OK. > > I'd advise you to avoid the Dremel tool, since it gets the plastic hot and > thereby risks permanently distoring the optical properties of the lens. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sue & Francois" > To: > Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 11:54 AM > Subject: Scratched plastic screen > > > > Hi all, > > I have a Sega Gamegear with a badly scratched screen. THe scratches are > > sobad that they distord the display. > > Is there an easy way to polish it? > > A hard way? > > I tried baking soda and dremel all morning but it's still bad and I've > done > > some damage to the case with the dremel (yeah I should be more carful with > > power tools) > > Thanks > > Francois > > > > > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Dec 9 23:05:49 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Apple I proto? Message-ID: Speaking of eBay and it's often inflated prices, did anyone else see the listing for the supposed Apple I prototype? The seller has a '0' rating and it's been bid up to $14k! http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1200995556 Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From whdawson at mlynk.com Sat Dec 9 23:45:40 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: GOOD scrounging day! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001209193304.0cdfc9c2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <000101c0626c$6dff1ec0$859e72d1@cobweb.net> -> I should have links in there soon but in the mean time you can look at the pictures -> directly at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/morrow/front.jpg" MD2? MD3's have HH drives stacked on the left and a filler panel on the right, at least the ones I have. -> Also here's one for the Paratronics Logic Analyzer; I built one of these from a kit about 1976. It worked well for many years. One of those things I regret having not kept. Fred from Dynacomp sold one earlier this year on eBay and it went for much more than I was willing to spend ( >$100.00 IIRC) Bill From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 9 23:04:37 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: GOOD scrounging day! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001209100916.3b27d214@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > an X-Y input for the display. The manual is dated 1977 and it says that > this an improved version of the one that was in the cover story of the Feb > 1977 issue of Popular Electronics. (Does anyone have that issue?) The Sure. I assume you want a scan of the article? > Cosmac. This will make a nice companion piece for my Altair. Speaking of which I fired mine up today and it worked like a champ. Look for it's television debut sometime next year ;) > I'm looking for info on the Morrow Micro Decision. If anyone knows much > about them, let me know. A standard (but nice) CP/M box circa 1982 or so. You can actually plug any terminal into it for your display device. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 9 23:05:49 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: <3A3244B2.5FC7579@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > Since the old version from 1985 is a hobby version and free to use > under certain restricted conditions, I want to make a Y2K version > available for hobby users and it will not be that much more effort > to bring it to a Y10K level. The only real question is the calendar > which will likely have a leap year or two omitted in the next 8000 years. > But which one is still in question. Why stop at 10K? Why not make it YnK? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 9 23:07:21 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Nerds In-Reply-To: <14898.33501.453454.907862@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Dave McGuire wrote: > > Why do nerds confuse Halloween and Christmas? > > > > > > Because Oct31 = Dec25 > > *GROAN!!* :) That's actually quite clever. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 9 23:12:49 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Kansas City standard cassette recording In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Don Maslin wrote: > A tad over two years ago, there was some dialogue about the Kansas City > standard for cassette recording of microcomputer files, and a chap named > Heinz W. Wiggeshoff provided some information via > alt.folklore.computers, and offered both images of programatic nature and > circuit information on request. (See following.) > > If anyone obtained those images and circuit information, please respond > to philpem@btinternet.com with Cc to me. <...> > > From Microprocessor Interfacing Techniques by > Austin Lesea and Rodnay Zaks (whatever happened to him?) > c/r 1978 SYBEX Inc. > ISBN 0-89588-003-2 > p. 128 I just found my copy of this. Does someone still need something scanned? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From donm at cts.com Sun Dec 10 00:36:09 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Kansas City standard cassette recording In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Don Maslin wrote: > > > A tad over two years ago, there was some dialogue about the Kansas City > > standard for cassette recording of microcomputer files, and a chap named > > Heinz W. Wiggeshoff provided some information via > > alt.folklore.computers, and offered both images of programatic nature and > > circuit information on request. (See following.) > > > > If anyone obtained those images and circuit information, please respond > > to philpem@btinternet.com with Cc to me. > <...> > > > > From Microprocessor Interfacing Techniques by > > Austin Lesea and Rodnay Zaks (whatever happened to him?) > > c/r 1978 SYBEX Inc. > > ISBN 0-89588-003-2 > > p. 128 > > I just found my copy of this. Does someone still need something scanned? I think that what 'philpem' was looking for was not the stuff from Lesea and Zaks, but the circuit information and software images that Wiggeshoff offered to send on request. - don > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From donm at cts.com Sun Dec 10 01:02:56 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: GOOD scrounging day! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001209193304.0cdfc9c2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > At 12:56 PM 12/9/00 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > >> > >> I'm looking for info on the Morrow Micro Decision. If anyone knows much > >> about them, let me know. > > > >Which one is it, Joe? I am fairly familiar with the 5.25" floppy ones, > >the 2, 3, 5, 11, and nn. > > - don > > > > I don't know what model it is. It's not marked on the model anywhere. > The serial number is 34-22965 if that helps. I searched the web but didn't > find out much. A lot of sites mention the Morrow but none of them had > pictures or much of a description. One site said that it they had two > drives, then they were MD-2s. Mine has two HH drives but it doesn't look > like his. I'm in the process of adding it to my web site and I should have > links in there soon but in the mean time you can look at the pictures > directly at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/morrow/front.jpg" and > "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/morrow/back.jpg". Also here's one for > the Paratronics Logic Analyzer; > "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/morrow/paratron.jpg". I've scanned the > cover of the Paratronics manual and I'll be posting it too. Joe, from the front and rear shots that you posted, I'm morally certain that it is an MD-2. The fixed power cord and the 2/3rd-high drives both suggest that. The MD-3 had half-high drives and usually they were stacked as was mentioned by Bill Dawson. If you want to check further, remove the cover and look at the EPROM for a number. If 1.n it is MD-2, or if 2.n it is MD-3. Also the motherboard ID silkscreened in the upper RH corner will show Rev 1.1 for MD-2 and 2.n(?) for MD-3. One further item. The card edge connector in back that is marked 'External Drives' is NOT. It is a parallel port for printer use. One of the old TRS printer cables will work with it, but be careful that you do not short out the signals and power. There is an external drive connection on the MD-3, but it is a header on the left hand end of the motherboard, and you have to snake the ribbon cable out some way. Probably, by the parallel edge connection. - don From rmeenaks at olf.com Sun Dec 10 05:38:39 2000 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: telnetd for Win98 References: Message-ID: <000f01c0629d$beb515a0$d4ea0191@olf.com> Try to get a copy of Hummingbird Xserver as it contains inetd with all the trimmings (telnetd, ftpd, etc). It works quite well as that is what I use... Ram ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clint Wolff (VAX collector)" To: Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 12:41 PM Subject: OT: telnetd for Win98 > > Sorry for the OT, but y'all are the brightest computer savvy folks > I know :) > > I'm looking for a telnet server (not client) for Windows 98 (Second > edition)... Something that will let me log in, and give me the > equivalent to a command window... > > I'm trying to set up a method of putting VHDL simulations on idle > PCs at work :) > > clint > > From russ at rbcs.8m.com Sun Dec 10 07:07:33 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Nerds In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You know I've seen that since it came out and it JUST dawned on me that the OCT is octal and that DEC is decimal. NOW it makes perfecr sense. Guess I've been out of the programming world too long. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Sellam Ismail Sent: Saturday, December 09, 2000 11:07 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Nerds On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Dave McGuire wrote: > > Why do nerds confuse Halloween and Christmas? > > > > > > Because Oct31 = Dec25 > > *GROAN!!* :) That's actually quite clever. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Dec 10 07:38:05 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Nerds In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001210073541.0238f660@pc> At 07:07 AM 12/10/00 -0600, Russ Blakeman wrote: >You know I've seen that since it came out and it JUST dawned on me that the >OCT is octal and that DEC is decimal. NOW it makes perfecr sense. Guess I've >been out of the programming world too long. And this joke certainly qualifies for the 10-year-rule, I'm surprised there were some on this list that hadn't heard it before! Then again, I recall the story of talking to a guy at a convention, and he became so excited when I mentioned a C-64 game I'd worked on... he said "Wow, I used to play that on my dad's old Commodore when I was little!". - John From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Dec 10 09:33:14 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: GOOD scrounging day! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20001209100916.3b27d214@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001210103314.326f4f20@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:04 PM 12/9/00 -0800, Sellam wrote: >On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > >> an X-Y input for the display. The manual is dated 1977 and it says that >> this an improved version of the one that was in the cover story of the Feb >> 1977 issue of Popular Electronics. (Does anyone have that issue?) The > >Sure. I assume you want a scan of the article? Thanks but one of the other list members has already promised to make a copy for me. > >> Cosmac. This will make a nice companion piece for my Altair. > >Speaking of which I fired mine up today and it worked like a champ. Look >for it's television debut sometime next year ;) Let me know when. > >> I'm looking for info on the Morrow Micro Decision. If anyone knows much >> about them, let me know. > >A standard (but nice) CP/M box circa 1982 or so. You can actually plug >any terminal into it for your display device. I just found out that this is a model 1 (or so the circuit board says). >From what little I found on the net, these are scarcer than the 2 and 3s. Joe > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Dec 10 09:32:31 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: GOOD scrounging day! In-Reply-To: <000101c0626c$6dff1ec0$859e72d1@cobweb.net> References: <3.0.1.16.20001209193304.0cdfc9c2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001210103231.326f4f2a@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:45 AM 12/10/00 -0500, you wrote: > >-> I should have links in there soon but in the mean time you can look >at the pictures >-> directly at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/morrow/front.jpg" > >MD2? MD3's have HH drives stacked on the left and a filler panel on the >right, at least the ones I have. I just opened it up and checked the circuit board. It says that it's a model 1. Rev 1.1 . I'll make some pictures of the insides and post them as I take it apart. > >-> Also here's one for the Paratronics Logic Analyzer; > >I built one of these from a kit about 1976. It worked well for many >years. One of those things I regret having not kept. > >Fred from Dynacomp sold one earlier this year on eBay and it went for >much more than I was willing to spend ( >$100.00 IIRC) Thanks for the info, Bill. I was wondering what something like this would bring on E-Overpay but it's kinda of neat so I think I'll keep it. But it's nice to have an idea of what it's worth. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Dec 10 14:33:34 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: GOOD scrounging day! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20001209193304.0cdfc9c2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001210153334.326fe7f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Don, Thanks for all the info. I just opened it up and the board is marked "model 1 Rev 1.1. The EPROM says "ROM 1.3" and what looks like "71FB". I tried to remove the drives and board to get a better look at things but it needs a very narrow offset screwdriver to get the screws out of the middle between the two drives so I wasn't able to. Thanks for the info about the printer port. That could have been a costly mistake! Jo At 11:02 PM 12/9/00 -0800, you wrote: > > >On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > >> At 12:56 PM 12/9/00 -0800, you wrote: >> > >> > >> >> >> >> I'm looking for info on the Morrow Micro Decision. If anyone knows much >> >> about them, let me know. >> > >> >Which one is it, Joe? I am fairly familiar with the 5.25" floppy ones, >> >the 2, 3, 5, 11, and nn. >> > - don >> > >> >> I don't know what model it is. It's not marked on the model anywhere. >> The serial number is 34-22965 if that helps. I searched the web but didn't >> find out much. A lot of sites mention the Morrow but none of them had >> pictures or much of a description. One site said that it they had two >> drives, then they were MD-2s. Mine has two HH drives but it doesn't look >> like his. I'm in the process of adding it to my web site and I should have >> links in there soon but in the mean time you can look at the pictures >> directly at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/morrow/front.jpg" and >> "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/morrow/back.jpg". Also here's one for >> the Paratronics Logic Analyzer; >> "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/morrow/paratron.jpg". I've scanned the >> cover of the Paratronics manual and I'll be posting it too. > >Joe, from the front and rear shots that you posted, I'm morally certain >that it is an MD-2. The fixed power cord and the 2/3rd-high drives >both suggest that. The MD-3 had half-high drives and usually they were >stacked as was mentioned by Bill Dawson. If you want to check further, >remove the cover and look at the EPROM for a number. If 1.n it is MD-2, >or if 2.n it is MD-3. Also the motherboard ID silkscreened in the upper >RH corner will show Rev 1.1 for MD-2 and 2.n(?) for MD-3. > >One further item. The card edge connector in back that is marked >'External Drives' is NOT. It is a parallel port for printer use. One >of the old TRS printer cables will work with it, but be careful that you >do not short out the signals and power. > >There is an external drive connection on the MD-3, but it is a header on >the left hand end of the motherboard, and you have to snake the ribbon >cable out some way. Probably, by the parallel edge connection. > > - don > > > From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 10 09:40:37 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? References: <3A2E6072.31501.606A90@localhost> <01ec01c05fca$f799d3e0$0c00000a@techcare.com> <015a01c05fce$b8ff1380$0200a8c0@marvin> <00f201c05fe4$fb749e40$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> <026301c05fe7$e5f50ca0$0200a8c0@marvin> <02b801c0608c$6f704310$0c00000a@techcare.com> <007801c0608d$ea4acdc0$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <004401c062bf$aa101470$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Gregory" To: Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 3:40 PM Subject: Re: NEXTcube, now what? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sean Caron" > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 1:29 PM > Subject: Re: NEXTcube, now what? > > > > Yeah, you can put either non-parity or parity 30 pinn SIMMS in the > > Cube (since it doesn't care about parity). I think the maximum is 32 > megs. > > There are 16 SIMM slots in the '030 cube, for a maximum of 64 Megs (4M x > 16). IMHO, using parity SIMMs when non-parity SIMMs work is a waste; the > non-parity ones are much more common. Save the paritys for boxes that need > them unless you have plenty lying around. I put 16 * 4 meg 30 pin on the one board and 8 * 4 meg 72pin on the other, and put it all back together. The fan now works and I can hear the drive spinning up then I get exception # 2 (0x8) at 0x100b9dc next> Does someone have a list of these exceptions? It seems that www.next.com has been taken over by apple and hidden. From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 10 09:52:31 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: MAI 4 terminals References: <3.0.1.16.20001209100916.3b27d214@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.20001210103314.326f4f20@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <005801c062c2$bd5cd8d0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> I was back at the scrap yard and they still have 4 MAI basic 4 terminals at $19 cdn. http://www.cohenandcohen.com/ is their web site. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Dec 10 10:35:12 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Nerds In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001210073541.0238f660@pc> from John Foust at "Dec 10, 0 07:38:05 am" Message-ID: <200012101635.IAA09954@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > And this joke certainly qualifies for the 10-year-rule, > I'm surprised there were some on this list that hadn't > heard it before! Sssh, you'll just encourage him! :-) > Then again, I recall the story of talking to a guy at > a convention, and he became so excited when I mentioned > a C-64 game I'd worked on... he said "Wow, I used to > play that on my dad's old Commodore when I was little!". Which game was that? I play games on the 128 and I'm still little. :-P (Well, 24 is little on this list. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This message will self-destruct in five seconds. Good luck, Jim. -- M:I ---- From wkuiper at wxs.nl Sun Dec 10 11:03:07 2000 From: wkuiper at wxs.nl (Wilko Kuiper) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: FSOT: WANG WLTC "Transportable" laptop Message-ID: <000601c062cb$11f49a60$0100a8c0@mshome.net> Hey Well, I haven't got a spare powerbrick for you because I;ve got only one. why I reply is that my Wang WLTC doesn't start up any more. I now need the WANG start tracks or bootdisks. So, if you have them and you would mail me them, I would be verry gratefull For so far, thanks, Evert Kuiper, The Netherlands -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001210/29bc5629/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 10 11:36:47 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Kansas City standard cassette recording In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Dec 9, 0 10:36:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1105 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001210/e4f6d4a9/attachment.ksh From ncherry at home.net Sun Dec 10 11:56:20 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Kansas City standard cassette recording References: Message-ID: <3A33C3C4.405FFC40@home.net> Tony Duell wrote: > > > I think that what 'philpem' was looking for was not the stuff from Lesea > > and Zaks, but the circuit information and software images that > > Wiggeshoff offered to send on request. > > A number of years ago (heck, the prototype probably comes under the 10 > year rule :-)) I designed a little interface to convert between audio > cassette data (using the standard 1200Hz/2400Hz tones) and an RS232 port. > I know I used it to read BBC micro cassettes and BASICODE recordings into > a machine with an RS232 port. It works at up to 1200 baud. The Tx used a > crystal clock and a set of counters, the Rx used the classic 2 monostable > circuit. And I even used one of the handshake lines to turn a relay on > and off to control the cassette motor. > > I can't find the physical unit, but I can find the schematics and parts > list for it. I'd be happy to make one or 2 copies of this (but not many > more) and to send them out. I'd also have no objections to further > distribution, so if somebody wants to scan them and stick them on a > suitable website, that would be fine. > > If anyone is interested, let me know. I have a scanner and would like to build one. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Dec 10 11:58:28 2000 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:34 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough... In-Reply-To: References: <001207063419.2020135b@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <4.1.20001210123737.01484820@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 08:32 PM 12/7/00 +0000, Tony Duell said something like: >> -- snip -- >> >> "Students have never taken a toaster oven apart, >> certainly never built a radio," said Lynn Abbott, > >Unfortunately, this seems to be the case in the UK as well. I've met >engineering graduates who don't have a _clue_ about real-world >electronics or mechanics. Show them a simple circuit board or a simple >mechanism -- even something as simple as a striking clock -- and they >don't have any ideas as to how it works and what the parts are for. > >Another thing that people are remarkably bad at these days is making >sensible approximations. They just throw a computer at the problem and >take whatever answer it gives as correct. Now, don't get me wrong -- I >don't want to solve complex (differential) equations by hand. But often I >can get an answer to better than 10% by making reasonable approximations, >and either this is 'good enough', or at least it will convince me that >the computer solution is meaningful. > >> Tim. (who was weaned on big bags of parts from Poly Paks, anxiously >> ordered from ads in the back of _Radio-Electronics_...) >> > > >-tony (who grew up holding a acrewdriver, built his first radio 28 years >ago. For the UK people, the semiconductors were an OC45 (regenerative >RF/AF stage), 2 OC71s (AF stages) and a couple of OA81 diodes. That >should identify it. And who's probably fiddled with more pieces of >machinery and electronics than an entire graduating engineering class has >at most universities...) Preach on, Brothers!! I get really depressed when I see a so-called degreed engineer, recently on his first job, who hasn't a clue about handling hardware -mechanical or electrical. I still have a scar on my left thumb from when I was about three years old (ca. 1956) and got cut badly while trying to discover just how that tin toy Jack-in-the-Box would pop up at the end of the "Pop Goes The Weasel" tune. I remember that event _very_ well. I've not ever stopped being curiously investgative since (well, personal injuries were _greatly_ diminished ;-) and that has helped me absolutely immensely to get to where I am now. I really hope a change comes about in the way technical degrees are taught in colleges, e.g., much more hands-on coursework and actual encouragement of tinkering. Tinkering, IMHO, drives thought processes directly involved with learning problem solving and developing resourcefulness. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From gregorym at cadvision.com Sun Dec 10 12:26:20 2000 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker enough... References: <001207063419.2020135b@trailing-edge.com> <4.1.20001210123737.01484820@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <004101c062d6$b2133320$0100a8c0@hal90002> Extremely OT, but hopefully of interest to many, so I hope I'll be forgiven ... One show that provides some hope for the future of tinkering in England and the US is the excellent Scrapheap Wars (called Junkyard Wars in the US and Canada). The premise: two teams of 4 people (3 ordinary joes and 1 expert) are turned loose in a junkyard and given 10 hours to build a device, such as an amphibian, a glider, or a cannon, with which they compete the next day. The teams don't know what they'll have to build in advance. The junkyard has been mildly salted with useful items (hydraulic rams, propellors, etc) but for the most part, the teams have to adapt their design to use whatever they can find or build in the allotted time. Among the projects tackled so far (other than the three mentioned above): a walking machine, a submarine, a radio controlled bomber, a "deep-sea" recovery barge, demolition equipment, a land yacht, and others that I'm forgetting. In Canada and the US, the Learning Channel has been airing the first two seasons from the UK in "marathons" of 4 per night for the last several weeks. A US version of the show is coming. Check your local listings. It's great fun, and an interesting look at some hands on, real time engineering in the original sense of the word. Cheers, Mark From markp at wccls.lib.or.us Sun Dec 10 14:26:57 2000 From: markp at wccls.lib.or.us (Mark Price) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: no power to Toshiba T1200 laptop Message-ID: I picked up a Toshiba T1200 laptop at Goodwill yesterday. Of course, it came with nothing, not so much as a power adapter, and nothing there to test it with, but I couldn't resist. I picked a power adapter from Radio Shack this morning, 12V, 1500mA, and plugged it in. There's a little red blinky starts blinking on the top of the case just above the on/off switch, but nothing else, no power-on, no boot, no bios screen, no nothin'. Any clue what's going on? Is the CMOS battery dead? Is the battery charging? Any experience, wisdom, and/or pages you'd have to share would be most appreciated. Thanks! ============================== Mark Price, Library Computer Specialist Washington County Cooperative Library Services e-mail: markp@wccls.lib.or.us voice: 503-846-3230 fax: 503-846-3220 From russ at rbcs.8m.com Sun Dec 10 16:25:35 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Nerds In-Reply-To: <200012101635.IAA09954@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: Yeah really, I still have a 64 and a 128D around for entertainment and testing use.... > Then again, I recall the story of talking to a guy at > a convention, and he became so excited when I mentioned > a C-64 game I'd worked on... he said "Wow, I used to > play that on my dad's old Commodore when I was little!". Which game was that? I play games on the 128 and I'm still little. :-P (Well, 24 is little on this list. ;-) From lgwalker at look.ca Sun Dec 10 16:13:15 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: NEXTcube, now what? In-Reply-To: <004401c062bf$aa101470$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3A33B9AB.24315.BFDB848@localhost> > next> > > Does someone have a list of these exceptions? > It seems that www.next.com has been taken over by apple and > hidden. > There's a lot of sites and info out there on the net. I don't have all of them handy but the main repository is Peak IIRC and an excellent source with links is http://www.channelu.com/NeXT/NeXTStep/3.3/ There are also about 5 newsgroups devoted to Next. For an obsolete computer it's pretty current. We should only be so lucky on some of the other boxes C-Compers come up with. It becomes an art digging up info not to mention programs. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Sun Dec 10 16:13:15 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Chad on eBay In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001209222603.35bfa612@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001209190540.02a53720@pc> Message-ID: <3A33B9AB.21692.BFDB870@localhost> > LOL! I'd heard that it cost the Democrats an average of $30 per vote > so the price sounds about right. > > Joe > > At 07:08 PM 12/9/00 -0600, you wrote: > > > >Florida ballot Hollerith card chad is going for $20-40 +$3-7 S/H on > >eBay. In some cases, the *single* chad is behind glass in its own > >8x10 frame. > > > >- John > > > > > > BRRAAP. As a foreign observer who like most look on in horror at a win by another Bush Republican Yahoo and who usually avoid political comment with denizens of the Excited States (among the most naive voters in the world) I can only suggest that the Republican campaign was equally well funded. Both are corporate creatures, just different flavors. Let's restrict political commentary to political newsgroups or lists so I don't always have to bite my tongue and avoid retching. What goes over with the "good ol' boys in Texas or Louisiana" can be laughable or offensive internationally. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Sun Dec 10 16:13:15 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Nerds In-Reply-To: References: <14898.33501.453454.907862@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3A33B9AB.13024.BFDB81B@localhost> > On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > > Why do nerds confuse Halloween and Christmas? > > > > > > > > > Because Oct31 = Dec25 > > > > *GROAN!!* :) > Then again it could be simple avoidance cause Dec25 = $xxxxxxxxxxxxn larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Dec 10 16:57:05 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Question: Disk Mirroring preceding RAID? Message-ID: <02bc01c062fe$121f72c0$3d769a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, December 04, 2000 8:48 PM Subject: Re: Question: Disk Mirroring preceding RAID? >Back in '90. I tried the Novell NETWARE approach to mirroring, but was >unable to make it work. That was due to the fact that the ADAPTEC >controller I was using didn't really work correctly at the alternate address >with the driver they provided for that purpose. I quickly abandoned it, in >favor of the software RAID offered by NT. I currently running NT4/server using Adaptec and two 9gb drives and it's very well behaved with only one caveat, it is a tad slower. The NT4 software RAID also work nearly as well and has behaved itself. The biggest fail point is many raid (scsi based) system use the same channel for both drives and the bus is then the weak point. However, my interest is data recovery on failure not 100% uptime. your design goals vay vary. ;) Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Dec 10 17:01:51 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: <02bf01c062fe$12a5e0d0$3d769a8d@ajp166> From: jeff.kaneko@juno.com > >On Mon, 4 Dec 2000 22:38:33 EST Glenatacme@aol.com writes: >> In fact, these are absolutely the crappiest storage devices I have >> ever seen used on any computer. >> >> Any challengers for worst storage device? > >Yes-- The KALOK Octagon-20. The absolute worst >MFM drive (and perhaps the worst rotating memory of >*any* sort) ever manufactured. most any JTS drive and the ST251(in a warm box) followed by an old MFM Miniscribe 3.5" 21mb. These are exceeded by the infamous SA400 (or sa400L) drives. I also think the Zip drive (IOMEGA) might qualify. All time winner was the 300baud FSK modem used by MITS as a cassette interface. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 10 12:55:15 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: <4.1.20001210123737.01484820@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Dec 10, 0 12:58:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2736 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001210/9ee82e4b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 10 12:45:53 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Kansas City standard cassette recording In-Reply-To: <3A33C3C4.405FFC40@home.net> from "Neil Cherry" at Dec 10, 0 12:56:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 597 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001210/20e5a1af/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Dec 10 17:11:51 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Nerds In-Reply-To: <200012101635.IAA09954@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001210073541.0238f660@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001210170941.02dcd650@pc> At 08:35 AM 12/10/00 -0800, you wrote: >Which game was that? I play games on the 128 and I'm still little. :-P >(Well, 24 is little on this list. ;-) In college and afterward, I worked at Sight and Sound Music Software, which had titles like Kawasaki Music Synthesizer and Kawasaki Rhythm Rocker, among others. Obscure enough or CP-ed such that they don't show up in warez lists on the web today, but once upon a time, they were sold through K-Mart. - John From ncherry at home.net Sun Dec 10 17:46:33 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker References: Message-ID: <3A3415D9.78DEA0D7@home.net> All this reminds me of one thing tah one of my coworkers told me. If we ever enter an area where we were not allowed to touch things we had to keep our hands in our pockets. Looks weird but it causes me to think before doing. And yes I love taking everything apart and figuring out what makes it tick! (EET) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Dec 10 17:53:58 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Nerds In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001210170941.02dcd650@pc> from John Foust at "Dec 10, 0 05:11:51 pm" Message-ID: <200012102353.PAA10690@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Which game was that? I play games on the 128 and I'm still little. :-P > >(Well, 24 is little on this list. ;-) > > In college and afterward, I worked at Sight and Sound > Music Software, which had titles like Kawasaki Music > Synthesizer and Kawasaki Rhythm Rocker, among others. > Obscure enough or CP-ed such that they don't show up > in warez lists on the web today, but once upon a time, > they were sold through K-Mart. Hah! I have an Incredible Music Keyboard, so it's not *that* obscure. :-) Is it true that the IMK was somehow related to the Commodore SFX Music Maker overlay? They are very suspiciously similar (see http://www.retrobits.com/ckb/secret/sfx.html ). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- NEWS ITEM: Energizer Bunny arrested, charged with battery ------------------ From Mzthompson at aol.com Sun Dec 10 18:27:14 2000 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Scrounging in Florida Message-ID: On 09 Dec 2000, under the subject: GOOD scrounging day!; Joe Rigdon wrote: > OK while the rest of you are freezing and getting ready for Christams, we > here in Florida and enjoying beautifull wheather and still fighting over > the election! A few of us are taking advantage of the weather and are out > scrounging for old computers and other interesting stuff. I am headed to Ft. Lauderdale later this month. Any suggestions for places to visit with regards to finding 'puters? I am not looking for anything in particular, probably something along the lines of fleamarkets or places that sell used hardware. Keep in mind that my wife and her mother will probably be in tow. They are concerned that I will be bored and want to include something of interest for me. Also any pointers on book stores that sell used books and/or used CD/45/LP's. TIA Mike From optimus at canit.se Sun Dec 10 18:44:07 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: STRIDE Message-ID: <1003.380T350T1044419optimus@canit.se> I was at the usergroup today and had a look at our Stride, which has been parked in the entrance since we moved in. It is a grey tower (large), with a pretty glass front featuring one 5?" flopyy drive and a tape drive. The back is filled with a dozen or so of modular connectors, as well as another modular marked LAN, and an unmarked IEC (?) connector. I also found some manuals. Some were relevant to a system called Unistride (is this an OS or a hardware system), whereas I directed my primpary interest to one owner's manual for the Stride 400 series and one manual for the Liaison Operating System with p-system. Another p-code system! Judging from manual illustrations, we've got the Stride 460 system, albeit lacking the terminal. We don't have any boot media, though. After some investigation, it seems to have been able to run a whole lot of OSes; Liaison/p-system, CP/M 68k as well as System V. Does anyone have some sources for boot media for this pretty system? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Dec 10 19:41:54 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Question: Disk Mirroring preceding RAID? References: <3A2B77BC.11608.DA777A4@localhost> <002101c05e57$b6710600$9cc762d8@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <005a01c06313$8b8ee4a0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Erlacher" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2000 11:37 AM Subject: Re: Question: Disk Mirroring preceding RAID? > Back in '90. I tried the Novell NETWARE approach to mirroring, but was > unable to make it work. That was due to the fact that the ADAPTEC > controller I was using didn't really work correctly at the alternate address > with the driver they provided for that purpose. Oh? Interesting. We have (somewhere) a Netware 3.11 server that is running disk mirroring with 2 Adaptec controllers. The above is on-topic, that 486DX2-66 EISA server is now 10 yrs old hi, and when it retires (probably next year) I will be giving it a good home, along with its cabling, tape drive, UPS, Deskjet 500 and dozen or so diskless workstations, so my kids can play dos and win3.x based games, on their own personal Novell network, hehehe.....;^) Never had a problem with that, or with a later model server and NW4.11 mirroring, also with adaptec's - 2940UW's IIRC. > I quickly abandoned it, in > favor of the software RAID offered by NT. Yeah, that part of NT seems ok as well. Ran that on some NT 3.51 systems we had here, but we recovered our sanity and they went. > It's theoretically quite solid, but I've never used it myself. The NT > (software) approach seems more solid. RAID is always done in software to > greater or lesser extent. The RISC processors commonly used on > "RAID-5-capable" controllers is really the same thing as it really doesn't > matter who runs the software. Yes, and there is a difference in sophistication. All RAID controllers were not created equal. Our current NW4.11 box is an NEC Express 130SA, dual P2-400's. It has a mainboard embedded Mylex DAC960PJ Raid Controller, and it's very good indeed. We have 4 x 8.9Gb drives configured as RAID Level 5, so we have about 24Gb useable. Drive failure is transparent to the O/S, and we have been able to reboot the system with a dead drive, hot swap remove/replace it 5 or 6 times, eventually replace it with anonther drive, and have the raid controller rebuild the drive in background, without any significant slowdown, and no impact on data integrity at all, and no need to reboot, reconfigure whatever. "It just works." I like it.....:^) > Unfortunately, under NT4, there were problems > with inter-process communication before SP3. That would make anybody > suspicious. My NT server was emulating the NETWARE server, yet had the > advantage of the software compression offered by NT and the built-in backup > (not the best imaginable, but the best there is ) Shudder. > AND it emulates the > NETWARE server so I can use it from DOS workstations. Is this the NT - Novell Gateway? Tried that, seemed to work ok, but couldn't really see the point. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Dec 10 19:47:57 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: <030a01c06315$27996040$3d769a8d@ajp166> From: r. 'bear' stricklin >We won't talk about the TK50. TK50 is the only one that hasn't messed me up. Then again most of the TK50s found are dead or nearly so. HPT20 travan-5, burnt me so bad... Seems the _tape_ moves so fast it heats up... alot... then be come useless due to heat. >I will, however, nominate any hard disk Micropolis made which was in a >smaller form factor than 5.25" FH. Garbage. D540, best drive ever. >> Bulletproof drives: >> Seagate St225,251, and 4096 interface version notwithstanding ST225 is a good one, the 251 and 4096 were junk. The ST251 was far to hot running to survive unless cooled with great effort. Allison From Glenatacme at aol.com Sun Dec 10 20:34:50 2000 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: In a message dated 12/10/2000 8:49:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, ajp166@bellatlantic.net writes: > ST225 is a good one, the 251 and 4096 were junk. The ST251 > was far to hot running to survive unless cooled with great effort. Well, at least one survives: Last week a frantic woman brought a Zenith Data Systems DOS-based PC into our shop. It wouldn't boot and she was in desperate need of retrieving some 1-2-3 files from the drive -- an ST251. Turns out the system battery had died, and once replaced we were able to get the system going and the drive looked healthy (as healthy as a Seagate MFM drive ever looks). Since it was in and out of the shop so quickly we didn't get much of a chance to check out the system (Z200? S200?) but it looked as if the mainboard was pretty much just a backplane, with the 10MHz AMD 286 CPU on an ISA card. Anyone familiar with this beast? It looked pretty cool. Could cards with faster CPUs be installed in place of the 286 card? Glen Goodwin 0/0 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Dec 10 20:45:24 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Fw: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker Message-ID: <03eb01c0631c$f7659e40$3d769a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: ajp166 To: Classic Computers Date: Sunday, December 10, 2000 9:44 PM Subject: Re: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker >From: Tony Duell > > >>> >-tony (who grew up holding a acrewdriver, built his first radio 28 >years >>> >ago. For the UK people, the semiconductors were an OC45 (regenerative >>> >RF/AF stage), 2 OC71s (AF stages) and a couple of OA81 diodes. That >>> >should identify it. And who's probably fiddled with more pieces of >>> >machinery and electronics than an entire graduating engineering class >has >>> >at most universities...) >> >>You know, I am a little concerned that not one UK member of this list >>recognises that radio circuit. I thought just about everybody built it >at >>some point... > > >Actually it's more unique to the UK than here in the usa. The common >transistor radios here were the very simple 2 transistor reflex and the >standard >six transistor superhet. > >I'm likely one of the few here that has built the AA5 (all American 5) 5 >tube AM superhet that was common, later transistor designs and IC >based systems. Most of my efforts were in generatiing RF power >and measuring it. the thing that keep my interest is the intersection >of communications (radio) and computers. > >Building and analysing already built machines is a great exercise and >creative >instigator. > >Allison > > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Dec 10 20:53:44 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Since it was in and out of the shop so quickly we didn't get much of a chance >to check out the system (Z200? S200?) but it looked as if the mainboard was >pretty much just a backplane, with the 10MHz AMD 286 CPU on an ISA card. Sounds like a Z-248, though I guess they could've had others of that basic type that carried other model numbers which I don't know about. Lage desktop case with 4 HH drive bays on the right side. If I remember correctly, both the memory and CPU board were in proprietary slots. >Anyone familiar with this beast? It looked pretty cool. Could cards with >faster CPUs be installed in place of the 286 card? There was a 386SX-16 board made for the machine that replaced both the CPU board and proprietary Zenith memory card. The SX board used 30pin SIMMs for the onboard RAM. I no longer remember who manufactured the board though, but I have installed a few of them in years past. The Z-248 was used widely by the US Navy and is often found at surplus sales. As far as compatibility, it did pretty good. Hope this helps. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Dec 10 21:05:51 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) References: <030a01c06315$27996040$3d769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3A34448F.B36DA796@idirect.com> >ajp166 wrote: > ST225 is a good one, the 251 and 4096 were junk. The ST251 > was far to hot running to survive unless cooled with great effort. Jerome Fine replies: I don't see what the problem is. I have been running the Hitachi DK515-78 and the Hitachi DK516-15 drives now for a number of years. I admit that the boxes they came in did have their own power supply and fan which I removed when I tossed the boxes. But whenever I run the drives, I just hang one of the fans right beside the drive to at least keep the drive at close to room temperature. This seems to have worked very well since on the few occasions I messed up, the drives became very hot indeed. But the solution has been rather trivial and although it was made easy by having a fan for every drive, it really was very easy to do this once I realized that it was rather important. So, "great effort" - not at all. Just a very minor precaution once the decision was made to have a fan available. For instance, I run 3 DK515-78 drives on a BA23 box which are on the bench all on top of each other. I also have 3 fans also on top of each other. Normally, I run just the bottom drive and its fan since the other 2 drives are only for backup. When I do a backup or compare (and sometimes even a restore), I just plug in both the drive and its associated fan. Simple once it was all set up. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Dec 10 21:40:56 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) Message-ID: <040201c06324$31378af0$3d769a8d@ajp166> From: Jerome Fine >I don't see what the problem is. I have been running the Hitachi DK515-78 >and the Hitachi DK516-15 drives now for a number of years. I admit that Those were good drives, I ran one for years and it was not new to start with. The complaint with some of the drives like ST225 was like many with ferrite coated platters the media migrates due to heat and that centrifical thing. I've found with mine if I let them get good and warm first then format them the problem is far less pronounced to uncommon. They dont like heat. Heat has always been the enemy of electronics and mechanicals, especially temperature cycles. Allison From ahm at spies.com Sun Dec 10 21:31:58 2000 From: ahm at spies.com (Andreas Meyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? In-Reply-To: <3A30FE4A.20AD1D7C@coin.org>; from John Tinker on Fri, Dec 08, 2000 at 09:29:14AM -0600 References: <002501c18d7c$a5cc3810$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> <3A30FE4A.20AD1D7C@coin.org> Message-ID: <20001210223158.M13740@spies.com> John Tinker writes: > I just noticed that sunlight reflecting off the top side of a CD focuses > somewhat, maybe with a focal length of about 20 feet. Off of the data side, it > spreads. I've tried it with several different types, and so far they all show > the same effect. Would anyone care to explain why? I believe that the tracks on a CD are concentric rings, which would make a CD something of a reflective Fresnel lens. Andy From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 10 20:35:18 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Dec 2000 Glenatacme@aol.com wrote: > Anyone familiar with this beast? It looked pretty cool. Could cards with > faster CPUs be installed in place of the 286 card? If it was truly a passive backplane system then sure. The bus is common between the 286, 386 and 486, Pentium, etc. As long as all you plan to use with the CPU are 16-bit cards. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From donm at cts.com Sun Dec 10 21:52:59 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: GOOD scrounging day! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001210103314.326f4f20@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > At 09:04 PM 12/9/00 -0800, Sellam wrote: > >On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > > > >> an X-Y input for the display. The manual is dated 1977 and it says that > >> this an improved version of the one that was in the cover story of the Feb > >> 1977 issue of Popular Electronics. (Does anyone have that issue?) The > > > >Sure. I assume you want a scan of the article? > > Thanks but one of the other list members has already promised to make > a copy for me. > > > >> Cosmac. This will make a nice companion piece for my Altair. > > > >Speaking of which I fired mine up today and it worked like a champ. Look > >for it's television debut sometime next year ;) > > Let me know when. > > > > >> I'm looking for info on the Morrow Micro Decision. If anyone knows much > >> about them, let me know. > > > >A standard (but nice) CP/M box circa 1982 or so. You can actually plug > >any terminal into it for your display device. > > I just found out that this is a model 1 (or so the circuit board says). > From what little I found on the net, these are scarcer than the 2 and 3s. I'm not sure that is so, Joe, as the circuit board that I looked at says the same thing and I know it came from an MD-2. If there was a Model 1 machine the difference must have been in the power supply having the fixed vice removable power cord or something like that. - don > > > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > >International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > From jhfine at idirect.com Sun Dec 10 22:33:22 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) References: Message-ID: <3A345912.A1C1E15D@idirect.com> >Sellam Ismail wrote: > >On Sat, 9 Dec 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > > Since the old version from 1985 is a hobby version and free to use > > under certain restricted conditions, I want to make a Y2K version > > available for hobby users and it will not be that much more effort > > to bring it to a Y10K level. The only real question is the calendar > > which will likely have a leap year or two omitted in the next 8000 years. > > But which one is still in question. > Why stop at 10K? Why not make it YnK? Jerome Fine replies: In RT-11, dates are displayed as 10-Dec-2000. The reason that I stopped at Y10K is because I have such a hard time deciding what format to use for the year. Up to 9999, 4 digits for the year seems quite acceptable and that is also the current standard. But up to year 99999, 5 digits seems too much. So, I suspect that I will use year 99,999 instead. However, I then have a problem with years that are both greater and less than 10,000 within a directory that has many files and dates in a column. I realize that you mean your reply as a joke, but I can see a very serious side to the question. And as far as making the actual data for the date YnK, that I will be able to do since there will be 23 bits for the year - up to year 8,000,000 if a user wants to make the trivial changes to allow more digits and the calendar that is used by the program (which is our present ordinary Common Era or Gregorian calendar) is actually still in use and meaningful. So a complete Y100K is entirely possible and years up to 999,999 could be handled properly. So long as the current Common Era calendar is still in use with only a leap year variation (omitted from the current ones or added back to the ones contained in the Julian calendar), there will not be a problem. The only question that I still have is the format used to display the date when the year is greater than 9999. Any suggestions? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Dec 10 14:53:48 2000 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Fw: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker References: <03eb01c0631c$f7659e40$3d769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3A33ED5A.D450D925@eoni.com> Yup. Five tube Heathkit AM radio followed by a 20 watt stereo amp followed by a 25" (RCA if I remember correctly) color TV. The last one had a BUNCH of parts and took about a month and a half of soldering to get it all together. Taught me all, and I mean ALL, about thyristors. Stereo taught me all about diode bridges. Each kit had their quirks and required a steady hand, a keen eye and a BRAIN to put them together and make them work. My dad built a complete Dynakit component stereo in the mid sixties. The power amp is still sought after by audiophiles (Dyna Stereo 70, True class A amp) even though the power tubes are long NLA. After nearly forty years it still drives those 15" Altec-Lansing VoT speakers and sounds better than any system I've heard. Clean! Those experiences were far better than a four year degree. Not only did I learn how it was *supposed* to work, I was forced to learn how it *did* work. The loss of companies like Heath (build your own pdp), Dyna, and Knight is really an educational opportunity lost for many 'students'. Jim ajp166 wrote: > >Actually it's more unique to the UK than here in the usa. The common > >transistor radios here were the very simple 2 transistor reflex and the > >standard > >six transistor superhet. > > > >I'm likely one of the few here that has built the AA5 (all American 5) 5 > >tube AM superhet that was common, later transistor designs and IC > >based systems. Most of my efforts were in generatiing RF power > >and measuring it. the thing that keep my interest is the intersection > >of communications (radio) and computers. > > > >Building and analysing already built machines is a great exercise and > >creative > >instigator. > > > >Allison > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 11 01:42:44 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Fw: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: <3A33ED5A.D450D925@eoni.com> References: <03eb01c0631c$f7659e40$3d769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >My dad built a complete Dynakit component stereo in the mid sixties. >The power amp is still sought after by audiophiles (Dyna Stereo 70, >True class A amp) even though the power tubes are long NLA. After Not class A, plain old A/B, 35 watts a channel, nothing special about the tubes which you can still get easily, and IMHO nothing special sound desired more for the obvious coloration and bass boost, plus its original quality, low price. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 11 01:47:31 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Digital Correspondent, socal Message-ID: >> BTW I have a couple good sized boxes of ribbons, that I "hope" to soon >> spread out on something flat a take a couple pictures of, and get rid of. > >Remember the MacInker (or some name to that effect)? It seems to take care >of re-inking old ribbons quite nicely. Only problem though with ribbons is >that I have too many I have no idea what they go to :)! Hence my plan, spread them all out, take a decent picture, and put it on my web site and let people look for what they need and offer me vast sums of money for it. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 11 09:21:54 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Chad on eBay In-Reply-To: <3A33B9AB.21692.BFDB870@localhost> References: <3.0.1.16.20001209222603.35bfa612@mailhost.intellistar.net> <4.3.2.7.0.20001209190540.02a53720@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001211102154.351f4d1c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 05:13 PM 12/10/00 -0500, Larry wrote: > > >> LOL! I'd heard that it cost the Democrats an average of $30 per vote >> so the price sounds about right. >> >> Joe >> >> At 07:08 PM 12/9/00 -0600, you wrote: >> > >> >Florida ballot Hollerith card chad is going for $20-40 +$3-7 S/H on >> >eBay. In some cases, the *single* chad is behind glass in its own >> >8x10 frame. >> > >> >- John >> > >> > >> >> > BRRAAP. As a foreign observer who like most look on in horror at >a win by another Bush Republican Yahoo and who usually avoid >political comment with denizens of the Excited States (among the >most naive voters in the world) I can only suggest that the >Republican campaign was equally well funded. That's very true. In fact, the Republicans are usually better funded since they are typically pro big business and they get MASSIVE contributions from them. But my previous comment was about the price of chad and how much the Democrats spend per vote and I never made any observation about how much the two partys spent relative to each other. EVERYONE in this country realizes that if the situation was reversed (the Democrats slightly ahead and the Republicans behind) then the Republicans would be doing that same sort of things to change the outcome. "Excited States"? Hmmm. You obviously believe everything that you see on the TV news. With very few exceptions, the news people are the only ones excited. For 99.99% of the country it's business as usual. I should say that most of the people on this list are from the "Excited States". Have you noticed any decrease in traffic here since the recent elections? I haven't. Both are corporate >creatures, just different flavors. True again. My opinion of the Democrats and Republicans are that they are like the two sides of the same coind. They're more alike than different. If you want different then look at the Green's party or some of the other third partys. Let's restrict political commentary >to political newsgroups or lists so I don't always have to bite my >tongue and avoid retching. What goes over with the "good ol' boys >in Texas or Louisiana" can be laughable or offensive internationally. You can be sure that we view many foreign political events and elections the same way. The LOONNGG running treat of Quebec to succeed from Canada is a good example. My comment on that one is to be carefull what you wish for, it may come true! In the mean time, lighten up! Both the previous messages were meant to be humerous and not serious political commentary! Joe (just for the record, I didn't vote for either of them. I voted for one of the third party candidates.) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 11 09:11:30 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: GOOD scrounging day! In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20001210103314.326f4f20@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001211101130.3b9f2f40@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:52 PM 12/10/00 -0800, Don wrote: >> >> I just found out that this is a model 1 (or so the circuit board says). >> From what little I found on the net, these are scarcer than the 2 and 3s. > >I'm not sure that is so, Joe, as the circuit board that I looked at says >the same thing and I know it came from an MD-2. If there was a Model 1 >machine the difference must have been in the power supply having the >fixed vice removable power cord or something like that. > > I think you're probably right about the card being the same in both (all?) models. I guess I'm going to have to find a factory ad or something similar from the period to find out exactly what model it is. It definitely dates from 1982. That's the copyright on the board and all the ICs that I checked had that date. However I thought that was a bit late for the SA200 drives. Joe From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Dec 11 08:24:10 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Kansas City standard cassette recording In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Dec 2000 21:12:49 -0800 (PST) Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 4 Dec 2000, Don Maslin wrote: ... > > If anyone obtained those images and circuit information, please respond > > to philpem@btinternet.com with Cc to me. > <...> > > > > From Microprocessor Interfacing Techniques by > > Austin Lesea and Rodnay Zaks (whatever happened to him?) ^^^^^^^^^^^ Rodnay Zaks, the guru of "Programming the 6502", amongst others. I still have the copy that I bought in about 1981, as well as the "6502 Applications Book" and some of the later ones like the CP/M guide and the Wordstar guide. I think these were Sybex books but not written by Rodnay Zaks. Sybex is still around, publishing a range of books with chimpanzees on the covers. So, whatever did happen to Mr. Zaks? > > c/r 1978 SYBEX Inc. > > ISBN 0-89588-003-2 > > p. 128 > > I just found my copy of this. Does someone still need something scanned? I think I have a copy, too. I'll have a look for it. Also seem to recall circuits published for Kansas City tape decoders in electronics magazines. Byte, even, when it was a more hardware-oriented magazine. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Dec 11 08:37:00 2000 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Fw: BBK-S4 and Solaris 2.6 Message-ID: <001501c0637f$d28ee370$faea0191@olf.com> Apparently, this didnt make it here :-( Ram ----- Original Message ----- From: Newsgroups: comp.sys.transputer,comp.os.parix To: Sent: Sunday, December 10, 2000 9:14 AM Subject: HELP: BBK-S4 and Solaris 2.6 > Hi, > > I am trying to get a BBK-S4 SBus-based transputer card working on a SUN > IPX workstation running Solaris 2.6. I have the Basic Transputer > Support Software (BTSS 3.1) which has support for Solaris. However, I > do not have any documentation. The BTSS requires the creation > of "/dev/sbus?" in order for it to communicate with the transputer. I > do not have any /dev/sbus[0-3] devices on my system. I tried to > symbolically link one of the sbus psuedo devices that is found > in /devices to /dev/sbus[0-3], but that doesnt seem to work. How do > you create the /dev/sbus[0-3] devices? I am trying to get Parix 1.2 > running on a T8-based Xplorer. This is the 1st step in many to come to > get this system up and running. Any help is much appreciated... > > Oh, before anyone asks, I booted using "boot -r" to reconfigure the > system, but that didnt work either... > > Ram > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Dec 11 08:42:36 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: STRIDE In-Reply-To: <1003.380T350T1044419optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 11 Dec 00 01:44:07 +0100 Iggy Drougge wrote: > I was at the usergroup today and had a look at our Stride, which has been > parked in the entrance since we moved in. It is a grey tower (large), with a > pretty glass front featuring one 5¼" flopyy drive and a tape drive. Sounds like the machine I've seen at INMOS. The tape drive is quarter-inch, yes? Probably a 60Mb capacity drive. > Does anyone have some sources for boot media for this pretty system? All I have left are the case parts (disassembled) and the motherboard. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Dec 11 08:49:22 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Dec 2000 18:55:15 +0000 (GMT) Tony Duell wrote: > > >-tony (who grew up holding a acrewdriver, built his first radio 28 years > > >ago. For the UK people, the semiconductors were an OC45 (regenerative > > >RF/AF stage), 2 OC71s (AF stages) and a couple of OA81 diodes. That > > >should identify it. ... > You know, I am a little concerned that not one UK member of this list > recognises that radio circuit. I thought just about everybody built it at > some point... Well, I recognise the transistor numbers as PNP germanium types, but I have to admit that I've never built a radio. Unless you count a Rugby MSF time-code receiver? I think I must have got into electronics at a time when off-the-shelf radios were commonplace and the exciting stuff (for me, at least) was television. Then Philips came out with the N1500 video recorder, and then the first calculators and microcomputers came along. > My scars were less serious as they've all gone by now (well, apart from > the cuts made last week :-)) but I've had more than my fair share of > burns from molten solder, cuts from assorted tools, etc. Oh dear, now you're making me realise how long it's been since I did any soldering... But I did take my Akai 4000DS reel-to-reel tape deck apart at the weekend. > It's amazing how much is learnt by 'tinkering'. And how that knowledge > comes to be useful to solve totally unrelated problems. Absolutely right! > -tony -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Dec 11 08:51:50 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Osborne manuals In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001210002951.35c7cd62@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:29:51 -0500 Joe wrote: > Here's the list of the Osborne Manuals and software that I could find. I'm > planning on sending them to Josh for him to scan. Does anyone else have any > other manuals? Yes! I have two cardboard boxes full of Osborne software and manuals! Not sure exactly what's in there, but I do recall a few Microsoft language products and a copy of DataStar, the database companion to WordStar. Oh, and a detective game. I'll have to take another look and make a list. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 11 10:22:49 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Osborne manuals In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20001210002951.35c7cd62@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001211112249.3a77100e@mailhost.intellistar.net> John, Cool! I'd like to see your list when you finish it. I was surprised how little I had on the O-1. I thought I had more for it. I've been reading the O-1 Technical Manual. It's VERY thorough. I wish I had one like it for the Executive. Joe At 02:51 PM 12/11/00 +0000, you wrote: > >On Sun, 10 Dec 2000 00:29:51 -0500 Joe > wrote: >> Here's the list of the Osborne Manuals and software that I could find. I'm >> planning on sending them to Josh for him to scan. Does anyone else have any >> other manuals? > >Yes! I have two cardboard boxes full of Osborne software >and manuals! Not sure exactly what's in there, but I do >recall a few Microsoft language products and a copy of >DataStar, the database companion to WordStar. Oh, and a >detective game. > >I'll have to take another look and make a list. > >-- >John Honniball >Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk >University of the West of England > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Dec 11 09:33:27 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3B2@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > On December 8, Megan wrote: > > >I remeber reading that a hologram of a lens would refract light in the > > >same was as a real lens would. This concept has formed the basis for > > >the flight-of-fancy holodeck/holosuite concept from Star Trek. > > > > > > The holodeck supposedly uses both hologram projectors and transporter > > technology... I suspect it should also use shield technology, too... > > > > The Trek world's holodecks don't have anything at all to do with > holographic lens technology. They use a combination of holography > (for background scenes and "wall extension") and transporter-style > matter synthesis for "solid" objects. I wasn't talking about the explanation Giordi LaForge would give for how it worked, but how the writers were likely inspired to create the plot device. regards, -dq From rivie at teraglobal.com Mon Dec 11 09:59:42 2000 From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: OT: telnetd for Win98 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I'm looking for a telnet server (not client) for Windows 98 (Second >edition)... Something that will let me log in, and give me the >equivalent to a command window... I'm not aware of one for 9x, although I have encountered one for NT. You might want to look into something like VNC, though. http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/index.html -- Roger Ivie rivie@teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From bkr at WildHareComputers.com Mon Dec 11 10:36:07 2000 From: bkr at WildHareComputers.com (Bruce Ray) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: OT: telnetd for Win98 References: Message-ID: <001401c06390$77060ea0$05247452@dellhare> G'day Roger - A list of several commercial TELNET servers for 95/98 and NT/2000 can be found at... http://is-it-true.org/nt/atips/atips270.shtml Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roger Ivie" To: Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 8:59 AM Subject: Re: OT: telnetd for Win98 > >I'm looking for a telnet server (not client) for Windows 98 (Second > >edition)... Something that will let me log in, and give me the > >equivalent to a command window... > > I'm not aware of one for 9x, although I have encountered one > for NT. You might want to look into something like VNC, though. > http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/index.html > > -- > Roger Ivie > rivie@teraglobal.com > Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Mon Dec 11 10:41:46 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Wang t-shirt (humor?) In-Reply-To: <200012101635.IAA09954@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200012101635.IAA09954@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <00121110414603.00255@Billbob_Linux> Anyone know where I might find a t-shirt with the WANG name on it? I'm sure you can all appreciate the potential humor value (especially if you have ever seen a particular episode of The Simpsons, where Martin has one). Seriously, if there is no source, would it be worth running a few :) ? Didn't Wang get bought by Getronics in the last few years? -- Bill Layer Sales Technician From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Dec 11 10:51:32 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Unix and 2038 Message-ID: UNIX dates and 2038. I'm willing to bet that there will be people looking at atmospheric, rainfall, snow cover, and other long term datasets that were created long ago :), 40 years, and some of there data formats are probably platform dependent. There are people still running IBM emulators that run old emulator code that runs old code that probably controls missiles and planes. The problem is not going away, everybody is hoping not to spend money for data their company will probably loose or discard before 2038. It all comes down to a question of self interest. Most company managers plan not to be in business in 20 years and their compensation is tied to this quarter. 1. If I were an astute computer manager I would convince my company that it was actually intelligent to outsource all my computing and problems and then quit before the ramifications are known. 2. I would then go to work for somebody else and convince them to insource the computing because of security risks associated by outsourcing. 3. I would then quit and go to work as a consultant and lecturer on the perils and pitfalls of computing. 4. I would then write a book on the theoretically best system, which is of course doesn't exist. 5. Finally I would write a book on my life in the golden age of computing. I know that I will have computers in 2038 that I have now. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Dec 11 10:52:49 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: no power to Toshiba T1200 laptop Message-ID: <20001211165249.33954.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mark Price wrote: > I picked up a Toshiba T1200 laptop at Goodwill yesterday. Of course, it > came with nothing, not so much as a power adapter, and nothing there to test > it with, but I couldn't resist. I picked a power adapter from Radio Shack > this morning, 12V, 1500mA, and plugged it in. IIRC, the T1200 wants 9VDC (there's a block of 4 NiCd cells inside that suggests to me that it's 6VDC internal and 9VDC to charge it) I just happened to see one about a week ago at our weekly Geek Lunch. I'm pretty sure the wart was 6VCD. Good luck, -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Dec 11 10:57:25 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Zenith-PC was (World's Crappiest Drives) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A34C125.26918.1003129E@localhost> > In a message dated 12/10/2000 8:49:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, > ajp166@bellatlantic.net writes: > > > ST225 is a good one, the 251 and 4096 were junk. The ST251 > > was far to hot running to survive unless cooled with great effort. > > Well, at least one survives: > > Last week a frantic woman brought a Zenith Data Systems DOS-based PC > into our shop. It wouldn't boot and she was in desperate need of > retrieving some 1-2-3 files from the drive -- an ST251. Turns out the > system battery had died, and once replaced we were able to get the > system going and the drive looked healthy (as healthy as a Seagate MFM > drive ever looks). > > Since it was in and out of the shop so quickly we didn't get much of a > chance to check out the system (Z200? S200?) but it looked as if the > mainboard was pretty much just a backplane, with the 10MHz AMD 286 CPU > on an ISA card. > > Anyone familiar with this beast? It looked pretty cool. Could cards > with faster CPUs be installed in place of the 286 card? > > Glen Goodwin > 0/0 > I have a ZFA-161 which was an 8088 luggable. Passive backplane and 2 cool pop-up floppies on top.I think the Z-100 models only went up to m.150 altho you could put a Z80 card in the PCs. Don't know how you would switch systems with both cards installed. They had a nice built-in monitor system which was accessed by control,alt,ins on startup. The Nec V30 and V40 were common upgrades and I've heard they would accept a hardcard. If it could be upgraded to a 286 or higher with a processer complex that would be neat. Reminds you of the IBM PS/2s with the processors on a card (m.90-95's) that IBM calls planars as they did the earlier PS/2 mother-boards, altho the backplane is considerably more complex. (non-passive backplane ?) ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Dec 11 10:57:25 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Chad on eBay In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001211102154.351f4d1c@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <3A33B9AB.21692.BFDB870@localhost> Message-ID: <3A34C125.30709.1003126D@localhost> > At 05:13 PM 12/10/00 -0500, Larry wrote: > > > > > >> LOL! I'd heard that it cost the Democrats an average of $30 per > >> vote so the price sounds about right. > >> > >> Joe > >> > >> At 07:08 PM 12/9/00 -0600, you wrote: > >> > > >> >Florida ballot Hollerith card chad is going for $20-40 +$3-7 S/H > >> >on eBay. In some cases, the *single* chad is behind glass in its > >> >own 8x10 frame. > >> > > >> >- John > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > BRRAAP. As a foreign observer who like most look on in horror at > >a win by another Bush Republican Yahoo and who usually avoid > >political comment with denizens of the Excited States (among the most > >naive voters in the world) I can only suggest that the Republican > >campaign was equally well funded. > > That's very true. In fact, the Republicans are usually better > funded > since they are typically pro big business and they get MASSIVE > contributions from them. But my previous comment was about the price > of chad and how much the Democrats spend per vote and I never made any > observation about how much the two partys spent relative to each > other. EVERYONE in this country realizes that if the situation was > reversed (the Democrats slightly ahead and the Republicans behind) > then the Republicans would be doing that same sort of things to change > the outcome. > > "Excited States"? Hmmm. You obviously believe everything that you > see on > the TV news. With very few exceptions, the news people are the only > ones excited. For 99.99% of the country it's business as usual. I > should say that most of the people on this list are from the "Excited > States". Have you noticed any decrease in traffic here since the > recent elections? I haven't. > > > Both are corporate > >creatures, just different flavors. > > True again. My opinion of the Democrats and Republicans are that > they > are like the two sides of the same coind. They're more alike than > different. If you want different then look at the Green's party or > some of the other third partys. > > > Let's restrict political commentary > >to political newsgroups or lists so I don't always have to bite my > >tongue and avoid retching. What goes over with the "good ol' boys in > >Texas or Louisiana" can be laughable or offensive internationally. > > > You can be sure that we view many foreign political events and > elections the same way. The LOONNGG running treat of Quebec to succeed > from Canada is a good example. My comment on that one is to be > carefull what you wish for, it may come true! > > > In the mean time, lighten up! Both the previous messages were meant > to > be humerous and not serious political commentary! > > > Joe > > (just for the record, I didn't vote for either of them. I voted for > one > of the third party candidates.) > My apologies Joe. I thought this was political commentary which from time-to-time has reared it's contentious head, sometimes in the form of bad humour. And yes the complex Quebec situation is bewildering and not only to non-Canadians. Knee-jerk reaction. You can't watch TV without something coming up about the US election. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Dec 11 11:28:42 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: Chad on eBay In-Reply-To: <3A33B9AB.21692.BFDB870@localhost> from Lawrence Walker at "Dec 10, 2000 05:13:15 pm" Message-ID: <200012111728.JAA14611@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > BRRAAP. As a foreign observer who like most look on in horror at > a win by another Bush Republican Yahoo and who usually avoid > political comment with denizens of the Excited States (among the > most naive voters in the world) I can only suggest that the > Republican campaign was equally well funded. Both are corporate > creatures, just different flavors. I think you're missing the point. Republicans don't pay for votes. They pay good money to have votes thrown out or ignored. Of course, that's only if they haven't spent enough money preventing "the wrong people" from voting in the first place. Eric From djenner at halcyon.com Mon Dec 11 11:32:34 2000 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:35 2005 Subject: no power to Toshiba T1200 laptop References: <20001211165249.33954.qmail@web9506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A350FB2.9D05E88C@halcyon.com> The Toshiba 1200 uses Toshiba AC Adapter Model PA7485U, which is 12V, 2.2A, center positive. The back of the computer says "12V" at the jack. If your 12V, 1.5A adapter (which is likely +centered, otherwise you wouldn't get the LED lighting up) is insufficient to power the machine with a dead battery, you might get the behavior you describe. Try letting the battery charge overnight, or get a beefier supply. Dave Ethan Dicks wrote: > > --- Mark Price wrote: > > I picked up a Toshiba T1200 laptop at Goodwill yesterday. Of course, it > > came with nothing, not so much as a power adapter, and nothing there to test > > it with, but I couldn't resist. I picked a power adapter from Radio Shack > > this morning, 12V, 1500mA, and plugged it in. > > IIRC, the T1200 wants 9VDC (there's a block of 4 NiCd cells inside that > suggests to me that it's 6VDC internal and 9VDC to charge it) > > I just happened to see one about a week ago at our weekly Geek Lunch. I'm > pretty sure the wart was 6VCD. > > Good luck, > > -ethan > > ===== > Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to > vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com > > The original webpage address is still going away. The > permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ > > See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. > http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Dec 11 11:20:21 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Wang t-shirt (humor?) In-Reply-To: <00121110414603.00255@Billbob_Linux> References: <200012101635.IAA09954@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3A34C685.2677.1018139C@localhost> > Anyone know where I might find a t-shirt with the WANG name on it? I'm > sure you can all appreciate the potential humor value (especially if > you have ever seen a particular episode of The Simpsons, where Martin > has one). > > Seriously, if there is no source, would it be worth running a few :) ? > Didn't Wang get bought by Getronics in the last few years? > > -- > Bill Layer > Sales Technician > > ISTR that there was a humorous T-shirt made by Wang employees years back. Something like "my Wang is bigger and better than your PC." I'd buy a Wang T-shirt in a flash. Can't remember who bought them out but there are still a few Wang enthusiasts sites out there. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 11 10:58:37 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: <3A345912.A1C1E15D@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > The only question that I still have is the format used to display the date > when the year is greater than 9999. Any suggestions? DD-MMM-YYYY(Y...) But you do realize it will be 8,000 years before anyone cares, right? This period of time encompasses most (if not all) of our current recorded history. By that time everyone will have left the planet. Our computers will be all alone and lonely. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Mon Dec 11 12:07:38 2000 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Fw: BBK-S4 and Solaris 2.6 In-Reply-To: <001501c0637f$d28ee370$faea0191@olf.com> from Ram Meenakshisundaram at "Dec 11, 2000 09:37:00 am" Message-ID: <20001211180752Z434706-27714+164@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > > > > Hi, > > > > I am trying to get a BBK-S4 SBus-based transputer card working on a SUN > > IPX workstation running Solaris 2.6. I have the Basic Transputer > > Support Software (BTSS 3.1) which has support for Solaris. However, I > > do not have any documentation. The BTSS requires the creation > > of "/dev/sbus?" in order for it to communicate with the transputer. I > > do not have any /dev/sbus[0-3] devices on my system. I tried to > > symbolically link one of the sbus psuedo devices that is found > > in /devices to /dev/sbus[0-3], but that doesnt seem to work. How do > > you create the /dev/sbus[0-3] devices? I am trying to get Parix 1.2 > > running on a T8-based Xplorer. This is the 1st step in many to come to > > get this system up and running. Any help is much appreciated... > > > > Oh, before anyone asks, I booted using "boot -r" to reconfigure the > > system, but that didnt work either... > > > > Ram > > > > A symbolic link won't work, since its not the contents of the file that are important. The first place to look is the MAKEDEV script in the /dev directory. This should show you how to make the /dev/sbus files. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 11 11:02:13 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Kansas City standard cassette recording In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, John Honniball wrote: > Rodnay Zaks, the guru of "Programming the 6502", amongst > others. I still have the copy that I bought in about 1981, > as well as the "6502 Applications Book" and some of the > later ones like the CP/M guide and the Wordstar guide. I > think these were Sybex books but not written by Rodnay Zaks. My copy is indeed published by Sybex. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 11 13:09:12 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Chad on eBay In-Reply-To: <3A34C125.30709.1003126D@localhost> References: <3.0.1.16.20001211102154.351f4d1c@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3A33B9AB.21692.BFDB870@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001211140912.3ad78528@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:57 AM 12/11/00 -0500, Larry wrote: >> > My apologies Joe. I thought this was political commentary which >from time-to-time has reared it's contentious head, sometimes in >the form of bad humour. And yes the complex Quebec situation is >bewildering and not only to non-Canadians. No problem. Sometimes it's hard to understand what's going on in other countries, especially in the political systems. > Knee-jerk reaction. You can't watch TV without something coming >up about the US election. If you think it's bad there, you should be here! I've discovered news channels that I never knew existed! The news media (at least in the US) runs every story into the ground until the next story comes along and then they drop it like a hot potato. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 11 13:17:22 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Chad on eBay In-Reply-To: <200012111728.JAA14611@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> References: <3A33B9AB.21692.BFDB870@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001211141722.3a873904@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 09:28 AM 12/11/00 -0800, Eric wrote: >> BRRAAP. As a foreign observer who like most look on in horror at >> a win by another Bush Republican Yahoo and who usually avoid >> political comment with denizens of the Excited States (among the >> most naive voters in the world) I can only suggest that the >> Republican campaign was equally well funded. Both are corporate >> creatures, just different flavors. > >I think you're missing the point. Republicans don't pay for votes. >They pay good money to have votes thrown out or ignored. Of course, >that's only if they haven't spent enough money preventing "the wrong >people" from voting in the first place. > Just FWIW, if that's the case then the Republicans failed. The voter turnout here was staggering. Some areas had as high as a 98% turnout. That's amazing considering that 40% is typical. I wonder how long it will be till we have a 130+% turnout like Chicago under Richard (Vote Early and Vote Often) Daily? I remember something from Political Science class along the lines of, people elect Democrats to get the benefits of big government. Then they elect Republicans to protect themselves from other people's Democrats. Joe From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Dec 11 12:22:52 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Chad on eBay In-Reply-To: <200012111728.JAA14611@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> from "Eric J. Korpela" at "Dec 11, 0 09:28:42 am" Message-ID: <200012111822.KAA11380@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > BRRAAP. As a foreign observer who like most look on in horror at > > a win by another Bush Republican Yahoo and who usually avoid > > political comment with denizens of the Excited States (among the > > most naive voters in the world) I can only suggest that the > > Republican campaign was equally well funded. Both are corporate > > creatures, just different flavors. > > I think you're missing the point. Republicans don't pay for votes. > They pay good money to have votes thrown out or ignored. Of course, > that's only if they haven't spent enough money preventing "the wrong > people" from voting in the first place. Please, can we take this off this list? I get enough politics everywhere else. (Not specifically directed at the people quoted above, just general.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Line printer paper is strongest at its perforations. ----------------------- From marvin at rain.org Mon Dec 11 12:20:48 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Chad on eBay References: <200012111728.JAA14611@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3A351B00.D2A2F2C7@rain.org> "Eric J. Korpela" wrote: > > I think you're missing the point. Republicans don't pay for votes. > They pay good money to have votes thrown out or ignored. Of course, > that's only if they haven't spent enough money preventing "the wrong > people" from voting in the first place. Flame bait . From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 11 12:28:49 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Fw: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: <3A33ED5A.D450D925@eoni.com> from "Jim Arnott" at Dec 10, 0 08:53:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2772 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001211/178f6598/attachment.ksh From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Mon Dec 11 12:37:29 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Chad on eBay In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001211140912.3ad78528@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <3.0.1.16.20001211102154.351f4d1c@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3A33B9AB.21692.BFDB870@localhost> <3.0.1.16.20001211140912.3ad78528@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <00121112372909.00255@Billbob_Linux> The media should be flogged for their skewing of the election results... On Monday 11 December 2000 13:09, you wrote: > If you think it's bad there, you should be here! I've discovered news > channels that I never knew existed! The news media (at least in the US) > runs every story into the ground until the next story comes along and then > they drop it like a hot potato. Don't you mean "The new media _ruins_ every story..." ? ;) -- Bill Layer Sales Technician From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 11 12:39:07 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Fw: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: <03eb01c0631c$f7659e40$3d769a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Dec 10, 0 09:45:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2051 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001211/d2259ab2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 11 12:42:59 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: from "Glenatacme@aol.com" at Dec 10, 0 09:34:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 863 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001211/0fb07d04/attachment.ksh From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Dec 11 12:50:34 2000 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Fw: BBK-S4 and Solaris 2.6 References: <20001211180752Z434706-27714+164@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <3A3521FA.7030601@olf.com> Thanks for the response, but there is no MAKEDEV on Solaris. You are supposed to run "boot -r" to reconfigure /dev and /devices and it should automatically appear. But it didnt happen. :-( Ram Mark Green wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I am trying to get a BBK-S4 SBus-based transputer card working on a SUN >>> IPX workstation running Solaris 2.6. I have the Basic Transputer >>> Support Software (BTSS 3.1) which has support for Solaris. However, I >>> do not have any documentation. The BTSS requires the creation >>> of "/dev/sbus?" in order for it to communicate with the transputer. I >>> do not have any /dev/sbus[0-3] devices on my system. I tried to >>> symbolically link one of the sbus psuedo devices that is found >>> in /devices to /dev/sbus[0-3], but that doesnt seem to work. How do >>> you create the /dev/sbus[0-3] devices? I am trying to get Parix 1.2 >>> running on a T8-based Xplorer. This is the 1st step in many to come to >>> get this system up and running. Any help is much appreciated... >>> >>> Oh, before anyone asks, I booted using "boot -r" to reconfigure the >>> system, but that didnt work either... >>> >>> Ram >>> >>> > > A symbolic link won't work, since its not the contents of the > file that are important. The first place to look is the > MAKEDEV script in the /dev directory. This should show you > how to make the /dev/sbus files. > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 11 12:51:23 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: from "John Honniball" at Dec 11, 0 02:49:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1542 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001211/916646d9/attachment.ksh From red at bears.org Mon Dec 11 13:14:52 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Fw: BBK-S4 and Solaris 2.6 In-Reply-To: <001501c0637f$d28ee370$faea0191@olf.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > > IPX workstation running Solaris 2.6. I have the Basic Transputer > > Support Software (BTSS 3.1) which has support for Solaris. However, I > > do not have any documentation. The BTSS requires the creation > > of "/dev/sbus?" in order for it to communicate with the transputer. I > > do not have any /dev/sbus[0-3] devices on my system. Are you sure that it's not referring to Solaris 1.x? I don't think I've ever seen a Solaris 2 box with any /dev/sbus. I don't have access to a SunOS 4 box just at the moment to check that out, though. Another possibility is that this support is offered by a third-party driver. ok r. From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Dec 11 13:17:24 2000 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Fw: BBK-S4 and Solaris 2.6 References: <20001211180752Z434706-27714+164@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> <3A3521FA.7030601@olf.com> Message-ID: <3A352844.213194BB@mainecoon.com> Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > > Thanks for the response, but there is no MAKEDEV on Solaris. That's correct. It's mknod, although it's use is somethat deprecated in favor of creating symbolic links to the physical name of the device in /devices. > You are > supposed to run "boot -r" to reconfigure /dev and /devices and it should > automatically appear. But it didnt happen. :-( Uh, boot -r isn't a configuration panacea. It causes add_drv and drvconfig to be invoked which aren't going to deal well with random third-party devices stuffed onto the bus. I'd hit /var/adm/messages to make sure that the thing is being sized (Solaris always sizes the bus, regardless of the -r argument to boot), and if so go edit /etc/path_to_inst by hand and either use mknod or create your own symlinks to finish the job -- unless, of course, the device isn't being sized, in which case you've got a hardware issue to chase after first. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Dec 11 13:30:23 2000 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Fw: BBK-S4 and Solaris 2.6 References: Message-ID: <3A352B4F.1080206@olf.com> r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > >>> IPX workstation running Solaris 2.6. I have the Basic Transputer >>> Support Software (BTSS 3.1) which has support for Solaris. However, I >>> do not have any documentation. The BTSS requires the creation >>> of "/dev/sbus?" in order for it to communicate with the transputer. I >>> do not have any /dev/sbus[0-3] devices on my system. >> > > Are you sure that it's not referring to Solaris 1.x? I don't think I've > ever seen a Solaris 2 box with any /dev/sbus. I don't have access to a > SunOS 4 box just at the moment to check that out, though. It is Solaris 2.6 (aka SunOS5) NOT Solaris 1.x (aka SunOS4). The BTSS supports both SunOS4 and SunOS5. The university machines that runs BTSS also runs it on Solaris 2.6, but I cant seem to get my system up and running while their's is. The card is the exact same card they have and the same version of the OS. The documentation for the BTSS supposedly has instructions on how to create the devices, but I dont have it nor do I have access to it either. Doing a "ls -l" on the university machine's /dev shows the same symbolic links I put it, but it doesnt work :-( > > Another possibility is that this support is offered by a third-party > driver. I find that hard to believe as there MUST be some way to get access to the raw sbus via Solaris to communicate with ANY sbus-based cards. And besides, the BTSS is the device driver software, but it needs the /dev/sbus[0-3] devices to communciate directly to the card.... Ram From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Dec 11 13:31:58 2000 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Fw: BBK-S4 and Solaris 2.6 References: Message-ID: <3A352BAE.676B90A5@mainecoon.com> "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: [snip] > Are you sure that it's not referring to Solaris 1.x? I don't think I've > ever seen a Solaris 2 box with any /dev/sbus. I don't have access to a > SunOS 4 box just at the moment to check that out, though. /dev/sbus isn't something one would expect to find under Solaris, although you could fake it by creating a simlink to the appropriate things in /devices. On an IPX I'd expect that to be something like: /devices/sbus@1,f8000000/sbusmem@x,0:slotx Where is the slot number, 0 - 3. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From rmeenaks at olf.com Mon Dec 11 13:45:56 2000 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Fw: BBK-S4 and Solaris 2.6 References: <3A352BAE.676B90A5@mainecoon.com> Message-ID: <3A352EF4.5000204@olf.com> Chris Kennedy wrote: > /dev/sbus isn't something one would expect to find under Solaris, > although you could fake it by creating a simlink to the appropriate > things in /devices. On an IPX I'd expect that to be something > like: > > /devices/sbus@1,f8000000/sbusmem@x,0:slotx > > Where is the slot number, 0 - 3. > That is exactly what I did, but it didnt work. Maybe I have some type of hardware problem. I'll have to check it out tonight. Thanks for all the help and responses. Kudos to ClassicCmp.... Ram From chris at mainecoon.com Mon Dec 11 14:02:19 2000 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Fw: BBK-S4 and Solaris 2.6 References: <3A352BAE.676B90A5@mainecoon.com> <3A352EF4.5000204@olf.com> Message-ID: <3A3532CB.41FD5597@mainecoon.com> Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > That is exactly what I did, but it didnt work. Maybe I have some type > of hardware problem. I'll > have to check it out tonight. Thanks for all the help and responses. > Kudos to ClassicCmp.... Um, if the device is showing up in /var/adm/messages after a reboot then I'd take a hard look at /etc/path_to_inst. It's used to store kernel metadata describing devices across boots... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Dec 11 14:09:00 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Fw: BBK-S4 and Solaris 2.6 In-Reply-To: <3A352B4F.1080206@olf.com> from Ram Meenakshisundaram at "Dec 11, 2000 02:30:23 pm" Message-ID: <200012112009.MAA17523@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > Another possibility is that this support is offered by a third-party > > driver. > > I find that hard to believe as there MUST be some way to get access to > the raw sbus via Solaris to > communicate with ANY sbus-based cards. And besides, the BTSS is the > device driver software, but > it needs the /dev/sbus[0-3] devices to communciate directly to the card.... There is a way to get to the devices through the /devices tree. I'm pretty sure that mapped io can be done through the devices in /devices/iommu@f,e0000000/sbus@f,e0001000/sbusmem@0,0:slot0 in the same way as through /dev/sbus0. Of course, in solaris, the names of these directories will vary depending upon the system type (because the addresses can change). You should be able to puzzle out the correct devices from /devices tree and link them to /dev/sbus* if that's what the software expects to see. Of course, doing it wrong will crash you real good. Eric From red at bears.org Mon Dec 11 14:34:14 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Fw: BBK-S4 and Solaris 2.6 In-Reply-To: <3A352B4F.1080206@olf.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Ram Meenakshisundaram wrote: > It is Solaris 2.6 (aka SunOS5) NOT Solaris 1.x (aka SunOS4). The BTSS > supports both SunOS4 and SunOS5. The university machines that runs > BTSS also runs it on Solaris 2.6, but I cant seem to get my system up > and running while their's is. Ok, it was just a thought. > have it nor do I have access to it either. Doing a "ls -l" on the > university machine's /dev shows the same symbolic links I put it, but > it doesnt work :-( What type of machine is it running on at Uni? If it's not sun4c the path to the pseudo-device in /devices may be different. It's possible even that among sun4c machines the device paths may be different. Contact me privately and I'll see if I can't help you out. ok r. From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 11 15:18:34 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: GOOD scrounging day! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001211101130.3b9f2f40@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > At 07:52 PM 12/10/00 -0800, Don wrote: > >> > >> I just found out that this is a model 1 (or so the circuit board says). > >> From what little I found on the net, these are scarcer than the 2 and 3s. > > > >I'm not sure that is so, Joe, as the circuit board that I looked at says > >the same thing and I know it came from an MD-2. If there was a Model 1 > >machine the difference must have been in the power supply having the > >fixed vice removable power cord or something like that. > > > > > I think you're probably right about the card being the same in both > (all?) models. I guess I'm going to have to find a factory ad or something Well, the MD-3 board was different - in fact there were two versions and manufacturers of that - and the MD-5/10/nn was yet different again. But any or all would fit in the same case. The late MD-2 had a detachable power cord, as did the MD-3. So did the MD-5/10/nn, but they also had a different - higher wattage - power supply to handle the HD. - don > similar from the period to find out exactly what model it is. It definitely > dates from 1982. That's the copyright on the board and all the ICs that I > checked had that date. However I thought that was a bit late for the SA200 > drives. > > Joe > > From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 11 15:21:39 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? In-Reply-To: <20001210223158.M13740@spies.com> (message from Andreas Meyer on Sun, 10 Dec 2000 22:31:58 -0500) References: <002501c18d7c$a5cc3810$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> <3A30FE4A.20AD1D7C@coin.org> <20001210223158.M13740@spies.com> Message-ID: <20001211212139.31096.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I believe that the tracks on a CD are concentric rings, > which would make a CD something of a reflective Fresnel lens. > It's a single spiral groove, but the macroscopic optical effects are probably similar. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 11 15:23:50 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: (message from Sellam Ismail on Mon, 11 Dec 2000 08:58:37 -0800 (PST)) References: Message-ID: <20001211212350.31140.qmail@brouhaha.com> Sellam wrote: > But you do realize it will be 8,000 years before anyone cares, right? > This period of time encompasses most (if not all) of our current recorded > history. > > By that time everyone will have left the planet. Our computers will be > all alone and lonely. Ha! I'm taking my DECSYSTEM-2065 with me! From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Dec 11 15:38:31 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Glass media hard drives In-Reply-To: <3A352844.213194BB@mainecoon.com> Message-ID: <20001211213424.PQNN18624.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> If glass is a slow moving liquid as demonstrated by 50 year old running window glass, how do drive makers expect thier media not to 'dish out' from the centrifugal force exerted on them? I'm sure glass media is not all that uncommon, but the only drives I KNOW use it are the 2.5" Toshiba drives used in notebooks. You have to use a lot of force, but if you whip one at a concrete floor, the platters will break into zillions of pieces. Glass, and the fact that these particular drives are none too reliable made me wonder. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Mon Dec 11 15:37:56 2000 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Glass media hard drives In-Reply-To: <20001211213424.PQNN18624.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a>; from THETechnoid@home.com on Mon, Dec 11, 2000 at 04:38:31PM -0500 References: <3A352844.213194BB@mainecoon.com> <20001211213424.PQNN18624.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <20001211163756.R19718@alcor.concordia.ca> On Mon, Dec 11, 2000 at 04:38:31PM -0500, THETechnoid@home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) wrote: > If glass is a slow moving liquid as demonstrated by 50 year old running > window glass It ain't. See . -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From vcf at siconic.com Mon Dec 11 14:32:33 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Anyone remember the Pan network? Message-ID: Does anyone remember or has anyone even heard of the Pan Network from the mid-80s? Apparently it was a dial-up network system used by musicians to trade midi files and what-not. If anyone has any remembrances of this that they can share or, even better, magazine article cites, then I would greatly appreciate if you could share them. Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 11 15:50:19 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Fw: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > I've never built a complete TV :-(. But about 10 years ago we got digital > stereo TV sound over here, using a system called NICAM (Near > Instantaneous Companded Audio Multiplex IIRC). Maplin (a hobbyist > electronics shop over here) sold a NICAM tuner/decoder kit. This was > essentially the entire tuner and IF strip of a TV, and a NICAM decoder > board (using the Toshiba chipset), and the necessary tuner control > electronics, optional IR remote control, etc. > > Yes, I built one, almost as soon as it was available. It wasn't > difficult, but there were a lot of parts. 80-odd ceramic capacitors on > the decoder PCB IIRC. Aligning it wasn't hard either, even using an > off-air signal > > [To make this marginally on-topic, for the initial tests I tapped 12V off > the PSU in my Minc and used that to power the tuner/decoder. And viewed > the video output on a little greenscreen monitor that origianlly came > with one of my Apple ][s.] > > I also built the Velleman PAL-RGB decoder. Again, it was almost a > no-brainer to put together. Worked first time IIRC. > > > Stereo taught me all about diode bridges. Each kit had their quirks > > and required a steady hand, a keen eye and a BRAIN to put them > > together and make them work. > > Odd... I find that properly designed kits don't need to much thought to > put them together -- I suspect a lot of people could assemble a Heathkit > without learning much electronics. Of course kits with 'bugs' in them are > another matter (and yes, I've had a number of those over the years..). > However, if you want to learn electronics then you can learn a lot by > assembling _any_ kit. I think that you are quite correct Tony. The story at the height of Heathkit sales was that the assembly instructions were proofed by having a clerk or secretary construct one. The thinking being that this would identify any errors or ambiguities in the text. Having done so one time, s/he was never again invited to repeat. - don > > Those experiences were far better than a four year degree. Not only > > did I learn how it was *supposed* to work, I was forced to learn how > > it *did* work. The loss of companies like Heath (build your own pdp), > > Dyna, and Knight is really an educational opportunity lost for many 'students'. > > Yes... > > As I've said before, the UK's interpretation of the EU EMC directives > doesn't help. Over here, they apply to kits as well (basically, a kit > assembled according to the instructions has to meet all the EMC standards > that a commerical product would have to meet). This has essentially > killed off the sale of kits over here. The fact that it was cheaper to > buy than build for a lot of stuff didn't help, but kits were still sold > for a lot of things until the introduction of the above directives. > > Now we get the Velleman kits and not a lot else :-( > > -tony > > From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Dec 11 15:58:02 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? In-Reply-To: <20001211212139.31096.qmail@brouhaha.com> from Eric Smith at "Dec 11, 2000 09:21:39 pm" Message-ID: <200012112158.NAA19408@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > I believe that the tracks on a CD are concentric rings, > > which would make a CD something of a reflective Fresnel lens. > > > > It's a single spiral groove, but the macroscopic optical effects are > probably similar. But it's really not a very good lens as such, and probably not really responsible for the effect noted. The nearest equivalent optical surface for monochromatic light would be a concave cone. If the CD were a uniform disk, the rays from the center would focus at the CD, and the rays from the edge would focus at some distance further along. For different wavelengths the depth of the effective cone would vary, which would result in major chromatic abberation. The blue light from the disk edge would focus nearly twice as far from the disk as the red light would. If anyone knows the spiral spacing off-hand, I could tell you distance at which a given wavelength focuses. The real trick of a fresnel lens is the way in which the line spacing varies to provide a point focus for monochromatic light. Most fresnels also include refractive elements to correct for chromatic effects. Eric From jtinker at coin.org Mon Dec 11 16:14:14 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? References: <002501c18d7c$a5cc3810$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> <3A30FE4A.20AD1D7C@coin.org> <20001210223158.M13740@spies.com> <20001211212139.31096.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3A3551B5.8CC15FE3@coin.org> Eric Smith wrote: > > I believe that the tracks on a CD are concentric rings, > > which would make a CD something of a reflective Fresnel lens. > > > > It's a single spiral groove, but the macroscopic optical effects are > probably similar. But why would it appear concave from the label side, and convex from the data side? From rivie at teraglobal.com Mon Dec 11 16:35:51 2000 From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Glass media hard drives In-Reply-To: <20001211213424.PQNN18624.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> References: <20001211213424.PQNN18624.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: >If glass is a slow moving liquid as demonstrated by 50 year old running >window glass, how do drive makers expect thier media not to 'dish out' >from the centrifugal force exerted on them? http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/glass.html -- Roger Ivie rivie@teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Dec 11 16:49:59 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Glass media hard drives In-Reply-To: <20001211163756.R19718@alcor.concordia.ca> from Rich Lafferty at "Dec 11, 0 04:37:56 pm" Message-ID: <200012112249.OAA12094@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > If glass is a slow moving liquid as demonstrated by 50 year old running > > window glass > > It ain't. See . Intriguing. Thanks, Rich. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: Ten weeks from Friday you won't remember this fortune at all. ----- From elvey at hal.com Mon Dec 11 16:43:54 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Glass media hard drives In-Reply-To: <20001211213424.PQNN18624.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <200012112243.OAA03529@civic.hal.com> THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > If glass is a slow moving liquid as demonstrated by 50 year old running > window glass, how do drive makers expect thier media not to 'dish out' > from the centrifugal force exerted on them? Hi There is no evidence that 50 year old glass runs. This was an erroneous conclusion from looking at old stained glass. This old glass was not made like float glass of today and almost always had some wedge. The glass was placed in the came with the fat end down to help in shedding water. There are both lenses and mirrors made over 100 years ago that are holding an optical shape that would be impossible to keep with even the slightest running or slipping ( less then 2X10^-9 inches ). I don't find it conceivable that adding another 200 years could make a change on the order of tenths of an inch, as in the case of the stained glass. Many of the finest refractor lenses made and still in use were made in the last 50 to 100 years ago. These could not be useful at all with the suggested running stated. This is an argument the comes up every now and again that just doesn't make sense. The only thing that 50 year old glass does is what is called surface chemical tempering. This is why it is hard to cut old glass. This is caused by chemicals diffusing in the glass surface ( a method often used to temper glass for special purposes to day ). While it is true that glass is still semi liquid, like the rings of Saturn that are made of ice and will sublime over time, the rate of sagging of glass at normal temperature is no relevant on human time scales. Dwight From elvey at hal.com Mon Dec 11 17:02:28 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? In-Reply-To: <3A3551B5.8CC15FE3@coin.org> Message-ID: <200012112302.PAA03555@civic.hal.com> John Tinker wrote: > > > Eric Smith wrote: > > > > I believe that the tracks on a CD are concentric rings, > > > which would make a CD something of a reflective Fresnel lens. > > > > > > > It's a single spiral groove, but the macroscopic optical effects are > > probably similar. > > But why would it appear concave from the label side, and convex from the > data side? > Hi Because it was made that way. This could easily be the effect of putting the entire thing together. It is noted that the media part of the material is more to one side. Any difference in the coefficient of thermal expansion while pressing would tend to make a slight bowing. This would tend to make it consistently on one side. It could also be that the thickness of the coating was a little thicker towards the center, making a lens effect. If one only looked at warping, it would only take about 0.060 of a depression of the center to cause a 20 foot focal length. There are a number of reasons to discount the Fresnel effect. As was noted by another, the Fresnel effect would also split the colors to different focal lengths. Also, my original argument, if it was a Fresnel effect, the spacing is the same from both sides of the CD. This would indicate that the focal length would be the same from both sides. Dwight From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 11 17:28:29 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? In-Reply-To: <200012112158.NAA19408@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> (korpela@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu) References: <200012112158.NAA19408@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <20001211232829.32744.qmail@brouhaha.com> > If anyone knows the spiral spacing off-hand, I could tell you distance at > which a given wavelength focuses. The specified track pitch is 1.6 +- 0.1 micron. Some other specs: disc: substrate thickness: 1.2 +- 0.1 mm refractive index 1.55 +- 0.1 limits for the angular deviation of reflected beam: +- 1.6 degrees birefringence of substrate: 100 nm max limits for reflectivity variation in program area: 3% for f < 100 Hz pickup: wavelength: 780 +- 10 nm polarization: circular numerical aperture (NA): 0.45 +- 0.01 From elvey at hal.com Mon Dec 11 17:51:31 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? In-Reply-To: <200012112302.PAA03555@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <200012112351.PAA03584@civic.hal.com> Dwight Elvey wrote: > If one only looked at warping, it would only take about > 0.060 of a depression of the center to cause a 20 foot focal > length. Oops! Error in my calculation: It should have been 0.005 inches. Formula for saggitta is r^2/4f = s In this case r ~= 4.5/2 inches f ~= 20 feet ( 240 inches ) go figure! Dwight From THETechnoid at home.com Mon Dec 11 18:43:53 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Scrounging in Florida In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20001212003506.UZLH24833.femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> The thrift stores in Northwest Miami (123st, 163st), and in SouthWest Miami (107ave area) were good ten years ago... Regards, Jeff In , on 12/11/00 at 07:43 PM, Mzthompson@aol.com said: >On 09 Dec 2000, under the subject: GOOD scrounging day!; > Joe Rigdon wrote: >> OK while the rest of you are freezing and getting ready for Christams, we >> here in Florida and enjoying beautifull wheather and still fighting over >> the election! A few of us are taking advantage of the weather and are out >> scrounging for old computers and other interesting stuff. >I am headed to Ft. Lauderdale later this month. Any suggestions for >places to visit with regards to finding 'puters? I am not looking for >anything in particular, probably something along the lines of fleamarkets >or places that sell used hardware. Keep in mind that my wife and her >mother will probably be in tow. They are concerned that I will be bored >and want to include something of interest for me. Also any pointers on >book stores that sell used books and/or used CD/45/LP's. >TIA >Mike -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Mon Dec 11 19:17:26 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? In-Reply-To: <20001211232829.32744.qmail@brouhaha.com> from Eric Smith at "Dec 11, 2000 11:28:29 pm" Message-ID: <200012120117.RAA22863@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > If anyone knows the spiral spacing off-hand, I could tell you distance at > > which a given wavelength focuses. > > The specified track pitch is 1.6 +- 0.1 micron. That means for 5000 angstrom light the diffraction angle is 18 degrees. Light from the inner portion of the disk (2.25 cm) would focus at 6.8 cm from the disk, light from the outer portion (6 cm) would focus at 18.2 cm from the disk. Voilet (4000 angstrom) from the edges focuses at 23 cm. Red (7000 angstroms) at 12 cm. That matches pretty well with what I see when I look into a disk with a strong light behind my back. The focusing reported is definitely a refective surface geometric effect and not a diffraction effect. Eric From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Dec 11 20:17:47 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Nerds In-Reply-To: <200012102353.PAA10690@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001210170941.02dcd650@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001211201419.0248cdf0@pc> At 03:53 PM 12/10/00 -0800, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >Hah! I have an Incredible Music Keyboard, so it's not *that* obscure. :-) >Is it true that the IMK was somehow related to the Commodore SFX Music Maker >overlay? They are very suspiciously similar (see >http://www.retrobits.com/ckb/secret/sfx.html Oh yeah, we made the very popular IMK, too! Offhand, I don't remember a CBM version. Where did the retrobits.com site determine that S&S had licensed the design? - John From dcoward at pressstart.com Mon Dec 11 20:26:45 2000 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Altos 8600 boot disk Message-ID: <4.1.20001211180528.0513e730@mail.pressstart.com> Hi, I'm trying to help someone find a copy of a 8" boot disk for an Altos 8600. Thanks, --Doug =============================================================== "On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament!], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. --- Charles Babbage ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA ========================================= From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Dec 11 20:36:36 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? In-Reply-To: <3A3551B5.8CC15FE3@coin.org> References: <002501c18d7c$a5cc3810$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> <3A30FE4A.20AD1D7C@coin.org> <20001210223158.M13740@spies.com> <20001211212139.31096.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001211183430.01cc7910@208.226.86.10> >But why would it appear concave from the label side, and convex from the >data side? Come on folks, think about this! CD's are slightly parabolic to the label side because the darn CD cases take moch more force to get the CD *out* than they do to put the CD *in*. So when you grab a CD by its edges and pull to get it out, it is flexed into a parabola toward the label. Many people push on the center area when replacing CDs in the case and thus never counter out this original flexing. --Chuck From elvey at hal.com Mon Dec 11 20:42:10 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001211183430.01cc7910@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <200012120242.SAA03724@civic.hal.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > pull to get it out, it is flexed into a parabola toward the label. Many > people push on the center area when replacing CDs in the case and thus > never counter out this original flexing. > > --Chuck Hi Chuck I still like my manufacturing explanation better. Well, OK, yours is as good as mine but I had to defend my anyway ;) Dwight From jtinker at coin.org Mon Dec 11 21:24:58 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? References: <002501c18d7c$a5cc3810$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> <3A30FE4A.20AD1D7C@coin.org> <20001210223158.M13740@spies.com> <20001211212139.31096.qmail@brouhaha.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20001211183430.01cc7910@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3A359A8A.4240D0F6@coin.org> Chuck McManis wrote: > >But why would it appear concave from the label side, and convex from the > >data side? > > Come on folks, think about this! CD's are slightly parabolic to the label > side because the darn CD cases take moch more force to get the CD *out* > than they do to put the CD *in*. So when you grab a CD by its edges and > pull to get it out, it is flexed into a parabola toward the label. Many > people push on the center area when replacing CDs in the case and thus > never counter out this original flexing. > > --Chuck It is also true of CD's that have never been used, though granted, my sample is small. I'm wondering if it is possibly an effect of the metalization process. Isn't the metalization vapor deposited? From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Dec 11 22:12:04 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) References: <20001211212350.31140.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3A35A594.AA1E8F2@idirect.com> >Eric Smith wrote: > Sellam wrote: > > But you do realize it will be 8,000 years before anyone cares, right? > > This period of time encompasses most (if not all) of our current recorded > > history. > > By that time everyone will have left the planet. Our computers will be > > all alone and lonely. > Ha! I'm taking my DECSYSTEM-2065 with me! Jerome Fine replies: And I am taking my copy of RT-11 along with me! The only question is whether I should have hard copy or a CD. The hard copy might get wet along the way and the CD might not have a drive available that can read the files. Any other suggestions? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Dec 11 22:14:07 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Unix and 2038 References: Message-ID: <3A35A60E.5442E957@idirect.com> >McFadden, Mike wrote: > I know that I will have computers in 2038 that I have now. Jerome Fine replies: If I am still around in 2038, I am also hoping to still run software that was first produced about 30 years ago. But I don't expect that I will be able to use the same hardware - but who knows - might a power supply last that long? I have a number of PDP-11 systems in a BA23 box which is about the same size as the full tower PC that I am using right now that I bought 3 years ago with W95. Fortunately, there are a number of emulators for PDP-11 software that run just as well under DOS/W95/W98 as on a real PDP-11. In fact, the PC is a Pentium 166 MMX and runs PDP-11 code about twice as fast as a real PDP-11/93. When I eventually switch to a current Pentium III 800, I expect the ratio to be about ten times as fast. The only question is if I will be able to run the emulator in 2038 or an updated version of it. By the way, although I will not make any revenue from a hobby version of Y2K patches for the old V5.03 of RT-11, I am in the middle of doing so, along with a Y10K set as well just for the extra fun. But, I do agree that there are many problems with commercial software, especially older versions that have bugs that were never fixed. Generally, the companies force the user to buy the newer versions under the guise that new features have been included when all the user wants is to have to old bugs fixed. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ncherry at home.net Mon Dec 11 22:56:42 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Unix and 2038 References: <3A35A60E.5442E957@idirect.com> Message-ID: <3A35B00A.610C3367@home.net> Jerome Fine wrote: > > >McFadden, Mike wrote: > > > I know that I will have computers in 2038 that I have now. > > Jerome Fine replies: > > If I am still around in 2038, I am also hoping to still run software > that was first produced about 30 years ago. But I don't expect > that I will be able to use the same hardware - but who knows - > might a power supply last that long? I have a number of PDP-11 > systems in a BA23 box which is about the same size as the full > tower PC that I am using right now that I bought 3 years ago with > W95. Fortunately, there are a number of emulators for PDP-11 > software that run just as well under DOS/W95/W98 as on a real > PDP-11. In fact, the PC is a Pentium 166 MMX and runs PDP-11 > code about twice as fast as a real PDP-11/93. When I eventually > switch to a current Pentium III 800, I expect the ratio to be about > ten times as fast. I'm betting only 4 times as fast (maybe 5). Just because you've quad'd the clock (internally) doesn't mean you see a 400% increase in total response. Besides when you load the next version of WinX it'll boot about as fast as my Atari 800 off the disk. :-) Still I wonder how many emulators can one run under another? I know I've done Linux -> DOS -> CP/M, Linux -> Linux doesn't count (self- referencing variables ;-). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From mbg at world.std.com Mon Dec 11 23:07:26 2000 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:36 2005 Subject: Unix and 2038 References: <3A35A60E.5442E957@idirect.com> Message-ID: <200012120507.AAA14069@world.std.com> >Still I wonder how many emulators can one run under another? I know >I've done Linux -> DOS -> CP/M, Linux -> Linux doesn't count (self- >referencing variables ;-). I've often wondered about this myself... using a technique like this, one might approach the speed of the original hardware -- from the other side, of course... Imagine a pdp-8 emulater, running under RT-11 on an emulated-11, running under TOPS-10 on an emulated-10, etc... As I said, you might end up having a pdp-8 emulator which is slowed down far enough to match the speed of the original hardware... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From jtinker at coin.org Mon Dec 11 23:39:03 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) References: <20001211212350.31140.qmail@brouhaha.com> <3A35A594.AA1E8F2@idirect.com> Message-ID: <3A35B9F7.D6CA1DAA@coin.org> > > Sellam wrote: > > > But you do realize it will be 8,000 years before anyone cares, right? > > > This period of time encompasses most (if not all) of our current recorded > > > history. > > > By that time everyone will have left the planet. Our computers will be > > > all alone and lonely. > The hard copy might > get wet along the way and the CD might not have a drive available > that can read the files. Any other suggestions? If they could read it at all, they'll be interested in the patterns, and if they can make sense of those, they may think us too foolish to waste time on. They may already have a life, without trying to understand ours, way back now. Then again, the disk might make a good hide scraper. Better put it in something that can't break or melt in a charcoal fire. I presume that if the culture is not continuous, the chance that any subsequent culture will be able to make sense out of our data is slight, and perhaps not holding much relevant value anyway, for their future. If the culture is continuous, then the data that survives, I think will do so by floating above any particular medium that carries it. I assume that multiple copies in a variety of media will propagate among those who value it. John Tinker From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 11 23:52:04 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: CompatiCards Message-ID: Both CompatiCards have been sold to list members. - don From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 12 00:03:30 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Ebay: PDP 16/M Super MiniComputer References: <3A35A60E.5442E957@idirect.com> <200012120507.AAA14069@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3A35BFB2.F8C57D01@rain.org> I just looked at Ebay and found out that the PDP 16/M is a roll-your-own PDP 8 or PDP 11. I sure wish DEC had let me know this information when I took the maintenance classes on it at the Maynard training facility. Here I always thought it was just a glorified solid state controller. We could have saved some money instead of buying the 11/05 and 11/45s :). The URL is: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1200936691 From webmaster at ipom.com Tue Dec 12 00:35:44 2000 From: webmaster at ipom.com (Phil Dibowitz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: <3A35C740.3CF0304E@ipom.com> I discharged my TV based on information I found on archives of this mailing list and some over-the-phone advice from a friend. The only difference was that I used a high-voltage probe instead of a resistor (attached the ground to the ground braid and dsicharged from the metal behind the suction cup). I then did some looking around in the dark and my heater seems to be malfunctioning... it doens't glow, it more sparks. The picture is really light and fades away to black. It will occasionally come back but usually fades again right away. So I looked along the little clear bulb on the back of the crt and ther was a small block dot on one part that looks like somethign underneith it had burned. The dot was about a cm in diameter.. maybe 2, but it was very small. Does this mean the heater is blown? If not is it a part I can buy and replace easily? Thanks. Phil -- Insanity Palace of Metallica www.ipom.com webmaster@ipom.com -- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Dec 12 01:35:32 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Nerds In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001211201419.0248cdf0@pc> from John Foust at "Dec 11, 0 08:17:47 pm" Message-ID: <200012120735.XAA11948@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Hah! I have an Incredible Music Keyboard, so it's not *that* obscure. :-) > >Is it true that the IMK was somehow related to the Commodore SFX Music Maker > >overlay? They are very suspiciously similar (see > >http://www.retrobits.com/ckb/secret/sfx.html > > Oh yeah, we made the very popular IMK, too! Offhand, > I don't remember a CBM version. Where did the retrobits.com > site determine that S&S had licensed the design? Where did *I* determine this? ;-) It was mentioned to me parenthetically. I will try to find the E-mail message, but if you know for sure it was *not*, you are obviously a source closer in. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Beware the Lollipop of Mediocrity: lick it once, and you suck forever! ----- From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 12 07:27:18 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Unix and 2038 References: <3A35A60E.5442E957@idirect.com> <200012120507.AAA14069@world.std.com> Message-ID: <002201c0643f$41970f30$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Megan" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:07 AM Subject: Re: Unix and 2038 > > >Still I wonder how many emulators can one run under another? I know > >I've done Linux -> DOS -> CP/M, Linux -> Linux doesn't count (self- > >referencing variables ;-). > > I've often wondered about this myself... using a technique like this, > one might approach the speed of the original hardware -- from the > other side, of course... > > Imagine a pdp-8 emulater, running under RT-11 on an emulated-11, running > under TOPS-10 on an emulated-10, etc... As I said, you might end up > having a pdp-8 emulator which is slowed down far enough to match the > speed of the original hardware... :-) Is anyone collecting the emulators? They'd take up a lot less space and be much easier to move or ship across the country. Maybe we could designate them with an e such as PDP-11e to indicate an emulator in the collection. Wouldn't need to worry as much about carrying the right tools, the spouse would never know how many we really had,... From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Dec 12 08:27:30 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) References: Message-ID: <3A3635D2.25D5D492@idirect.com> >Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 10 Dec 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > > The only question that I still have is the format used to display the date > > when the year is greater than 9999. Any suggestions? > DD-MMM-YYYY(Y...) Jerome Fine replies: I find that reading 31-Dec-99,999 is preferred to 31-Dec-99999, but I don't know what the standard will be. Or perhaps 99,999-Dec-31 since with other dates in a column for a directory listing, I suspect that 31-Dec-08,765 might seem a bit strange rather than FOO.BAA 8,765-Dec-31 FOO.BAB 28,765-Dec-31 FOO.BAC -2,345-Dec-31 But, if the user is allowed to choose the date format, that would be even better. Then for dates between 1000 and 9999, the user can still have his cake and eat it at the same time. > But you do realize it will be 8,000 years before anyone cares, right? > This period of time encompasses most (if not all) of our current recorded > history. Then why do we look at Egyptian literature, some of which is now 5000 years old. I realize that not everyone is interested, but if the work is being done to make the programs Y2K compliant and it takes only double the effort to make them Y10K compliant, it was that same attitude that led to the Y2K problems in the first place. What I am saying is that getting the software to work until 2099 is very easy since there are no technical or format problems involved. But, extending the date to even 4000 means solving a few questions like where to put the extra year bits. However, once those questions are solved along with allowing for minor hiccups like which years in the Common Era (Gregorian) calendar are no longer leap years (or in some cases there might need to be extra leap years), setting up a reasonable display format for the date with more than 4 year digits is actually the most difficult part of the coding. And if someone does decide to actually run the software under multiple emulators, then imagine the surprise when the current date is actually working - assuming that the current Common Era calendar is even understood. > By that time everyone will have left the planet. Our computers will be > all alone and lonely. I doubt that we will all have left the planet. The alternative is that we will have bombed or otherwise gutted ourselves back to the stone age. Will that then qualify as a topic that is over ten years old? Like going back to the future? Seriously, however, the point I am trying to make is that the technical problems that need to be solved are the same whether the date is extended to 31-Dec-2999 or 999,999-Dec-31. Once there are a few extra bits around to handle another 900 years, another million years is trivial except for the display aspects. The internal bits used to record the date need only 4 more bits for the year 2999, but it is just as easy the use 2 bytes which then allows years up to at least 4,000,000 in the future. As I understand the VMS time value, there is room to use dates up to about the year 25,000 - so the only problem will be the display format for a very long time - unless the code does not allow for leap years. Since old versions of VMS are over 10 years old, I think this discussion is still on topic - how long old code will still function - the same topic as how long old hardware will still function. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 12 08:43:22 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? In-Reply-To: <3A359A8A.4240D0F6@coin.org> References: <002501c18d7c$a5cc3810$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> <3A30FE4A.20AD1D7C@coin.org> <20001210223158.M13740@spies.com> <20001211212139.31096.qmail@brouhaha.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20001211183430.01cc7910@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001212084239.02524640@pc> At 09:24 PM 12/11/00 -0600, John Tinker wrote: >Chuck McManis wrote: >> Come on folks, think about this! CD's are slightly parabolic to the label >> side because the darn CD cases take moch more force to get the CD *out* >> than they do to put the CD *in*. >It is also true of CD's that have never been used, though granted, my sample >is small. I'm wondering if it is possibly an effect of the metalization >process. Isn't the metalization vapor deposited? How about the possibility that the disc is warped slightly when it's punched from a larger piece of plastic? - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 12 08:44:34 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Unix and 2038 In-Reply-To: <200012120507.AAA14069@world.std.com> References: <3A35A60E.5442E957@idirect.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001212084401.024e5c60@pc> >>Still I wonder how many emulators can one run under another? I know >>I've done Linux -> DOS -> CP/M, Linux -> Linux doesn't count (self- >>referencing variables ;-). On emulator fan sites, you will often seen screen shots like this, one emulator within another. It can get very slow, but it works. - John From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Dec 12 10:53:25 2000 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Put on your obscure toy hats gang! Message-ID: Ok... I'm now looking for some information/docs on the latest addition to the collection around the 'Garage': a Strand-Century Mini Light Palette theatrical lighting control console circa 1984. And before you ask, (cause I know you will) "what does this have to do with 'classic' computers?" Let me tell you! Beneath the somewhat utilitarian facade of this device, (pix soon to come) and only hinted at by the dual nine inch monochrome displays, hides a DEC Q-bus card cage, and an LSI-11 based microcomputer! Some 'standard' DEC cards, and a couple of custom cards make up the heart of this unit. And while it does have a floppy drive (5.25 inch), its core operating code resides on EPROM located on the CPU card. The unit is functional, and my intent is to put it to work in the manner in which it was intended. But, as with most things like this... Docs is good! THanks! -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 12 10:57:38 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: <3A3635D2.25D5D492@idirect.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Jerome Fine wrote: > Then why do we look at Egyptian literature, some of which is now 5000 > years old. I realize that not everyone is interested, but if the work > is being done to make the programs Y2K compliant and it takes only > double the effort to make them Y10K compliant, it was that same > attitude that led to the Y2K problems in the first place. What I am I guess I'm wondering why it should matter what the date data structure is in 8,000 years. I cannot see any practical purpose for it. I guess what you're saying is "we don't know what the practical purpose is, and the effort required to extend the date beyond 4 digits is minimal so why not take the little effort to do it?" If that's the case then, sure, I can agree with that. But will people in the future have the need to actually run our operating systems and have the dates be able to accomodate their current time? Won't they simply be viewing what we have as artifacts to be documented on their then current computing systems? Will there even be computers in 8,000 years? We've only had them for 50, and look how far they've come. Will they even resemble what we consider today to be computers? You can make an analogy such as "well, the Egyptians had papyrus and a stylus, and we have paper and pen, so computers will be fundamentally the same." But this analogy just does not apply when it comes to computers and electronics. And then you throw genetic engineering into the mix and your head starts to hurt. > imagine the surprise when the current date is actually working - > assuming that the current Common Era calendar is even understood. Exactly. That's a big assumption. And again, why would that be practical? It would be novel perhaps. Whatever is supposed to pass as a human in 8,000 years would think (if in fact they have processes that we consider today to be "thinking") "how clever these ancestors of ours were, making their systems compliant with our current day calendars". Or they might think "why did these silly creatures bother making their pathetic 'computers' able to render dates so far into the future?" Or they might think "!3nk n;)PN uoiK86w4hj8 ./}}PIOUo75 K&Br". > I doubt that we will all have left the planet. The alternative is > that we will have bombed or otherwise gutted ourselves back to the > stone age. Will that then qualify as a topic that is over ten years > old? Like going back to the future? I hope I've left the planet before this has happened. > Seriously, however, the point I am trying to make is that the technical > problems that need to be solved are the same whether the date is extended > to 31-Dec-2999 or 999,999-Dec-31. Once there are a few extra bits > around to handle another 900 years, another million years is trivial except > for the display aspects. The internal bits used to record the date need I don't even think we'll even have a problem by 2038 to tell you the truth. Look at what's happened to computers since 1962. Now project that forward 38 more years and try to imagine how pointless this discussion will have been. > only 4 more bits for the year 2999, but it is just as easy the use 2 bytes > which then allows years up to at least 4,000,000 in the future. As I > understand the VMS time value, there is room to use dates up to about > the year 25,000 - so the only problem will be the display format for > a very long time - unless the code does not allow for leap years. Since > old versions of VMS are over 10 years old, I think this discussion is > still on topic - how long old code will still function - the same topic as > how long old hardware will still function. Jerome, go outside and take a breath of fresh air once in a while :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 12 12:26:41 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: 10,000 years? (was: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: By then, we may resolve the question on this list. By then, will MICROS~1 have been broken up? By then, will we have a RELIABLE OS? BTW, recent experiments were UNsuccessful at starting fire using CDs. Therefore, what good will they be? From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 12 12:40:26 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Unix and 2038 In-Reply-To: <3A35A60E.5442E957@idirect.com> from "Jerome Fine" at Dec 11, 0 11:14:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1072 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001212/47599281/attachment.ksh From elvey at hal.com Tue Dec 12 12:45:24 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200012121845.KAA09594@civic.hal.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Will there even be computers in 8,000 years? We've only had them for 50, > and look how far they've come. Will they even resemble what we consider > today to be computers? You can make an analogy such as "well, the > Egyptians had papyrus and a stylus, and we have paper and pen, so > computers will be fundamentally the same." But this analogy just does not > apply when it comes to computers and electronics. And then you throw > genetic engineering into the mix and your head starts to hurt. The biggest problem seems to be "computer readable media". while I would suspect that the general term of "computer" will still exist, the thought that someone will have a CD player or even a machine that can except a IDE hard drive, in even 100 years, is in question. Human readable material continues to work reasonably well because the basic mechanism hasn't made changes that would obsolete the media. This isn't true with computer media. If you are looking for something to put into a time vault, you need to consider how one would interpret the information at a later date. There is no question in my mind that this is not the case that we are dealing with today. We are dealing with how to propagate the information into new technologies. It seems to me that the best way to do that is to move the information to the next generation of storage media as soon as it becomes available. The original media should be kept for cross checking and original reference as long as there is a viable method of retrieving the information from that media. Keeping it after that point would be based on historical or other criteria. In some sense, things like simulators should also need to follow this same line to ensure that there is a method of interpreting things like machine code for machines that not only become obsolete but become non-repairable through lack of parts. Simulators should be written in as simple a basic ( not BASIC ) language as possible to preserve them. The languages used should have human readable source code and be easily defined in terms of simple non-ambiguous operations that would be coded at the basic machine level with higher level constructs defined in terms of those low level definitions only. There are only two languages, that I know of, that are in current use, that could fit this requirement. Dwight From tarsi at binhost.com Tue Dec 12 13:00:00 2000 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: 10,000 years? (was: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20001212125834.02bcd670@binhost.com> >By then, will MICROS~1 have been broken up? Not bloody likely. .NET will have taken over. >By then, will we have a RELIABLE OS? Yup. My linux box will have an uptime of 3,650,000 days. :) >BTW, recent experiments were UNsuccessful at starting fire using >CDs. Therefore, what good will they be? AH, but have you tried microwaving CDs? They make a nice fire that way. Tarsi 210 --------------------------------- Nathan E. Pralle Vice President and CTO binHOST.com - Network Services for the World http://www.binhost.com tarsi@binhost.com --------------------------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 12 14:16:10 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: a comparison of CP/M versus Windows NT!! Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001212151610.32ff4cea@mailhost.intellistar.net> I just found this on comp.sys.cpm. a comparison of CP/M versus... Windows NT!!! Don't miss it: http://www.oualline.com/col/cpm.html Enjoy! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 12 12:48:22 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3A35C740.3CF0304E@ipom.com> from "Phil Dibowitz" at Dec 11, 0 10:35:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2439 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001212/10267106/attachment.ksh From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Tue Dec 12 13:25:31 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: 10,000 years? (was: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20001212125834.02bcd670@binhost.com> Message-ID: <001601c06471$4b3bb4a0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> >have you tried microwaving CDs? They make a nice fire that way. No, but if you bake a stack of worthless ones (MSDN in Turkish, for example) at 450 deg for 12 minutes they start to liquify. Then you can make nice Daliesque scupltures with them. my $0.000,02 John A. From markp at wccls.lib.or.us Tue Dec 12 13:35:20 2000 From: markp at wccls.lib.or.us (Mark Price) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: First personal computer nostalgia Message-ID: 1985,86? Atari 520ST, still have it, and thanks to John's question, anxious to put it back together and see how it's doing. My wife was still writing grad-school papers on it in '90 or so. 1st Word, no spell-check, no page numbering, not much formatting at all. The printer was a Silver Reed daisy-wheel typewriter with an optional interface box. (Still have that, too.) Clackety-clackety-clack. It paused between pages so you could switch paper. I recall with mixed fondness/not-so-fondness pulling all-night term paper sessions, the last hour or so of which consisted in sitting there, changing paper in the printer...zzzzzzzzz. At time of purchase, I was insanely jealous of my friend's Atari 1050ST with the humongous 1mb hard disk: "The silence of those infinite spaces terrified me." --Pascal. (Blaise, not Turbo.) 1996 Intercepted an IBM XT that a co-worker was tossing. Knew nothing from nothing, so never could get it to do much. Got it to find it its 10mb hard disk for exactly one format of PC-DOS, then I never saw C: again. You could still run PC-DOS and WordPerfect from the floppies when I gave it away. (Kinda wish I still had that one...) 2000 Bought a house with a BASEMENT, bwahahahaahaaaa! Have cluttered it all up with various PC clones in various states of completion/disrepair. Acquired a Mac SE, an old Zenith luggable which I haven't had time to check out yet (but I know it can't find its hard disk either), the Atari, a 90mb Bernoulli drive in its own carrying case, the Toshiba laptop mentioned elsewhere on this list. You guys have got years and years on me and have forgotten more than I'll ever know, but I really enjoy this list and learning about rescuing junkware. Thanks! ============================== Mark Price, Library Computer Specialist Washington County Cooperative Library Services e-mail: markp@wccls.lib.or.us voice: 503-846-3230 fax: 503-846-3220 From optimus at canit.se Tue Dec 12 10:58:26 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: STRIDE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <949.381T1300T10785153optimus@canit.se> John Honniball skrev: >On 11 Dec 00 01:44:07 +0100 Iggy Drougge >wrote: >> I was at the usergroup today and had a look at our Stride, which has been >> parked in the entrance since we moved in. It is a grey tower (large), with >> a pretty glass front featuring one 5?" flopyy drive and a tape drive. >Sounds like the machine I've seen at INMOS. The tape drive >is quarter-inch, yes? Probably a 60Mb capacity drive. I wouldn't know, tapes are not my fort?. Apparently that tape was the standard configuration in the model 440, judging by the illustrations in the owner's manual. >> Does anyone have some sources for boot media for this pretty system? >All I have left are the case parts (disassembled) and the >motherboard. I trust this is not a VME system? I seem to recall seeing some hideously large PCBs marked with the Stride logo in a box-of-cards. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Computer hackers do it all night long. From optimus at canit.se Tue Dec 12 11:01:20 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1076.381T1000T10814337optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> radios were commonplace and the exciting stuff (for me, at >> least) was television. Then Philips came out with the >> N1500 video recorder, and then the first calculators and >Do you have an N1500. I remember seeing one in a London shop in 1972-ish >and dreaming of getting one. Now, 28 years later, I have a couple of >them, working (of course), and the service manual. It's actually quite an >interesting design both mechanically and electronically. Is this a "VCR" system? I wouldn't be able to collect old videos as well, they don't lend themselves very well to stacking, what with the cassette entry at the top. >> microcomputers came along. >Ah yes... And all the fun of wiring up buses on stripboard ;-) You old farts. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Php/fi: The syntax does a very good job on combining the drawbacks of C with the disadvantages of Perl, in general resulting in a completely unreadable sequence of seemingly random characters. Therefor it became quite popular among Unix-fossils. -- README for the HTML preprocessor "hsc" From optimus at canit.se Tue Dec 12 11:25:46 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Wang t-shirt (humor?) In-Reply-To: <00121110414603.00255@Billbob_Linux> Message-ID: <972.381T2300T11056245optimus@canit.se> Bill Layer skrev: >Anyone know where I might find a t-shirt with the WANG name on it? I'm sure >you can all appreciate the potential humor value (especially if you have ever > seen a particular episode of The Simpsons, where Martin has one). I don't know about T-shirts, but I've got a nifty shirt pin with a flashing LED in it and the words "WANG knows LANs". =) >Seriously, if there is no source, would it be worth running a few :) ? Didn't > Wang get bought by Getronics in the last few years? Now, where can I get my "I'm a SORD hacker" shirt? BTW, what's wrong with Wang, and why did Martin get scoffed at for wearing such a shirt? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Ecco a voi la sigla di Lupin III in francese... ma... aspettate... qualcosa non quadra...cos'e' questa roba! Holly e Benji? ahahah... povero cantante... gli hanno messo sotto la base sbagliata!!! Tacchan undrar varf?r Captain Tsubasa p? franska har samma ackompanjemang som Lupin III p? italienska From optimus at canit.se Tue Dec 12 11:40:55 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: World's Crappiest Drives (was Re: A&J Microdrive) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1561.381T2750T11205979optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> Anyone familiar with this beast? It looked pretty cool. Could cards with >> faster CPUs be installed in place of the 286 card? >Quite likely. It was certainly possible on some Olivetti machines, which >were also built on a passive backplane. On the topic of ISA processor cards, does anyone have any experience with the Victor model n? M111021002? It's a miniscule 386 tower system, measuring approximately 30?10?30 cm. It's got one of the most difficult disassemblies I've seen on a PC, with a three- part outer shells which must be removed before disks or cards are crammed into it. ISA cards are dropped, or rather hung, into the backplane at the bottom of the computer, literally hanging upside down. The machine was delivered with an ISA card which on first inspection looks like a VGA card, but with another card piggybacked onto it, covering an 80386 processor and 30-pin SIMM slots. The backplane is in turn connected to another card with IDE and floppy connectors, IIRC. This forms a "motherboard" spread out on three cards, a design necessitated by the form factor of the case, which is no wider than a 3,5" drive bay. The standard configuration also seems to contain some sort of docking bay for a tape drive or something. They seem to crop up at fleamarkets quite often. Would a drop-in CPU replacement be possible on such a system, and have there been 486 ISA cards manufactured? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Goto: A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers to complain about unstructured programmers. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 12 13:45:09 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Ebay: PDP 16/M Super MiniComputer In-Reply-To: <3A35BFB2.F8C57D01@rain.org> (message from Marvin on Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:03:30 -0800) References: <3A35A60E.5442E957@idirect.com> <200012120507.AAA14069@world.std.com> <3A35BFB2.F8C57D01@rain.org> Message-ID: <20001212194509.16497.qmail@brouhaha.com> Marvin wrote: > I just looked at Ebay and found out that the PDP 16/M is a roll-your-own PDP > 8 or PDP 11. I sure wish DEC had let me know this information when I took > the maintenance classes on it at the Maynard training facility. Here I > always thought it was just a glorified solid state controller. We could have > saved some money instead of buying the 11/05 and 11/45s :). The URL is: It *is* a glorified solid state controller, and it is *NOT* a "Super MiniComputer". There is an example design for an *almost* PDP-8, but AFAIK they have not been used to implement complete PDP-8s or -11s, and would not really be very good at that. The PDP-16 is basically a set of building blocks for time-state machines (which is how early PDP-xx machines were designed). However, it is intended for building dedicated controllers, not general-purpose computers. Why? Because a general-purpose computer built out of PDP-16 Register Transfer Modules is larger, slower, and more expensive than the same computer built using more conventional techniques (even when using DEC M-series modules). It took me several readings of the book to understand how the PDP-16 modules are intended to be used. I wish I had the bucks to buy the thing and play with it. Sigh. From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Dec 12 14:22:17 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: 10,000 years? (was: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > By then, we may resolve the question on this list. > > By then, will MICROS~1 have been broken up? > Yes, but not in the way you think. You see, January 23rd, 10,002 the Microsoft Commonwealth will be invaded by a hideous race known as the Zorg. They invade us because of a bad trade agreement. It seems that when they installed Windows 10,000 in their hospitals, the systems crashed and all the tiny little Zorglings in the creche die. They'll completely devistate humanity in a ragged war that will last a hundred years. By the time we defeat them, we'll be once again trapped in Mother Earth's gravity well. All won't be lost though since an enterprising young man will discover a cache of Z-80 (and glue logic) chip mask drawings etched in gold. Thus the 2341st Computer Revolution will be born. This same individual will find the glass holodisc archive of http://www.retroarchive.org and CP/M will once again flourish in the land. Bill Gates XXXXXXXIIIV will of course try to co-opt this in his grandest family tradition by naming it "Computer Program/Microsoft", but no one pays any attention and a short time later he's fed feet first into a recently restored 20th century automated sausage press. [Which it is later discovered to have been restored for this exact purpose.] > By then, will we have a RELIABLE OS? > Depends on how the Zorg react to CP/M, now doesn't it? g. From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 12 14:32:27 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: need a HDD References: <949.381T1300T10785153optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <003f01c0647a$a4e78d40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. If anyone has somthing that will fit this geometry, and it's available, I'd like to be informed. Thanks, Dick From webmaster at ipom.com Tue Dec 12 15:02:05 2000 From: webmaster at ipom.com (Phil Dibowitz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: (no subject) References: Message-ID: <3A36924D.81BB8C9D@ipom.com> > FWIW, I normally use an HV probe to discharge a CRT as well. It's a > resistorr that I know will withstand the EHT, and by watching the meter I > can tell when the CRT is discharged. I lack a meter that works with my probe, but I held it on there for a good 10-15 seconds... > If the heater is going on and off (and if the picture is OK when the > heater is on), look for bad connections in the heater circuit first. That's exactly what it's doing. > Often the heater (in a TV) runs off a winding on the flyback transformer > (the HV transformer that links to the rubber 'flower' on the CRT flare). > Check for dry joints at the flyback transformer pins, dry joints on the > CRT socket, dirty CRT pins, etc. I don't know which pins that the instructions (or you) are talking about. I checked all the wire connections... don't know about the joints... (sorry, I'm new to repairing CRTs. > This sounds like the 'getter'. It's a film of a reactive metal (barium, I > think) that is evapourated onto the glass when the CRT is finally > evacuated. Any residual oxygen in the CRT will react with the getter > rather than damaging other parts of the CRT. Umm. I think you may have misunderstood me. The litlte burn mark isnt' on the CRT, it's on the (I think) heater -- the little clear glass tube on the back fo the crt that glows when the TV is on... or well is supposed to glow, but more comes on and off. > But if you get a picture at all, the CRT is still holding a vacuum. And > the heater is probably OK (they _can_ go intermittant, but it's rare) Picture comes in and fades to black, comes in and fades to black Phil -- Insanity Palace of Metallica www.ipom.com webmaster@ipom.com -- From webmaster at ipom.com Tue Dec 12 15:15:37 2000 From: webmaster at ipom.com (Phil Dibowitz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: List Question References: <949.381T1300T10785153optimus@canit.se> <003f01c0647a$a4e78d40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3A369579.44B112CC@ipom.com> Does anyone know if it is possible to receive this lsit in digest format? I've searched the help email and the website. There's a FAQ question that answers it, but it seems to be from a time before this list was on majordomo... Thanks. Phil -- Insanity Palace of Metallica www.ipom.com webmaster@ipom.com -- From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 12 15:32:14 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Intel SDK-85 Data Sheet References: Message-ID: <000d01c06482$ff1a1780$1192fea9@idcomm.com> In case this is of interest to anyone else on the list, I found my SDK-85 Data Sheet and User's Manual (1977) and have scanned the sheet. It may be a while before the User's Manual is done, since I've already got a number of things ahead of it. The Data Sheet is available in G4 TIFF right away, though I can, potentially translate it to some other bitmap format. Let me know (soon) if you want it. It's 6 pages and the resulting 5-page G4-TIFF is about 625KB. Dick From emu at ecubics.com Tue Dec 12 15:51:12 2000 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: need a HDD References: <949.381T1300T10785153optimus@canit.se> <003f01c0647a$a4e78d40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3A369DD0.347805F0@ecubics.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 > cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. If anyone has somthing that > will fit this geometry, and it's available, I'd like to be informed. What about a micropolis 1355 ? (more the 1000 cyliners, but 8 head, 5'25 & esdi) cheers From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 12 15:43:08 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: 10,000 years? (was: Data Archival (OT Long) References: Message-ID: <001101c06484$8496a620$1192fea9@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Buckle" ... though the roman numeral boondoggle below didn't originate with him ... To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 1:22 PM Subject: Re: 10,000 years? (was: Data Archival (OT Long) > > By then, we may resolve the question on this list. > > > > By then, will MICROS~1 have been broken up? > > > Yes, but not in the way you think. You see, January 23rd, 10,002 the > Microsoft Commonwealth will be invaded by a hideous race known as the > Zorg. They invade us because of a bad trade agreement. It seems > that when they installed Windows 10,000 in their hospitals, the > systems crashed and all the tiny little Zorglings in the creche > die. > > They'll completely devistate humanity in a ragged war that will > last a hundred years. By the time we defeat them, we'll be once again > trapped in Mother Earth's gravity well. > > All won't be lost though since an enterprising young man will discover a > cache of Z-80 (and glue logic) chip mask drawings etched in gold. Thus > the 2341st Computer Revolution will be born. This same individual will > find the glass holodisc archive of http://www.retroarchive.org and CP/M > will once again flourish in the land. > > Bill Gates XXXXXXXIIIV > Shouldn't that be LXX (for the first part)? Maybe you can write out in decimal what IIIV is supposed to be, since only ONE lesser character to the left is subtracted, and the two remaining 'I's are meaningless. > > will of course try to co-opt this in his grandest > family tradition by naming it "Computer Program/Microsoft", but no one > pays any attention and a short time later he's fed feet first into a > recently restored 20th century automated sausage press. [Which it is > later discovered to have been restored for this exact purpose.] > > > By then, will we have a RELIABLE OS? > > > Depends on how the Zorg react to CP/M, now doesn't it? > > g. > > From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 12 16:04:58 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Ebay: PDP 16/M Super MiniComputer References: <3A35A60E.5442E957@idirect.com> <200012120507.AAA14069@world.std.com> <3A35BFB2.F8C57D01@rain.org> <20001212194509.16497.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3A36A10A.47A3D56A@rain.org> Eric Smith wrote: > > Marvin wrote: > > I just looked at Ebay and found out that the PDP 16/M is a roll-your-own PDP > > 8 or PDP 11. I sure wish DEC had let me know this information when I took > > the maintenance classes on it at the Maynard training facility. Here I > > always thought it was just a glorified solid state controller. We could have > > saved some money instead of buying the 11/05 and 11/45s :). The URL is: > > It *is* a glorified solid state controller, and it is *NOT* a "Super > MiniComputer". There is an example design for an *almost* PDP-8, but > AFAIK they have not been used to implement complete PDP-8s or -11s, and > would not really be very good at that. I know, and perhaps I should have put a smiley after that statement. I am just amazed at the amount of mis-information that gets passed around on auctions such as that one. I still have the manuals and engineering drawings for the PDP-16, and I wouldn't mind getting one if only for old times sake ... but not for $500+ dollars! From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Dec 12 16:16:16 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: 10,000 years? (was: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20001212222551.ZGSX18624.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> CD's are mighty shiny. After the holocaust we can trade them as baubles to the natives. Or, as one person said: "When I collect two solar masses of AOL disks, I will use them to detonate our sun." I've seen websites dedicated to arts/crafts useing AOL cd's as the main component. One even made a full-size Christmas tree! I use dead-burn cd's as coasters, stack them to level a wobbly table. I think they might make nice reflectors for marking the beginning of a rural driveway. You could shave with one as a mirror. Of course, after a cataclysm we might want to actually READ some of these disks.... With limited resources, I would guess that a strong magnifier might reveal the pits for someone to manually transcribe. Then you could go to the printed RFC's and use an abacus to decode the files and reveal the contents. Maybe some selenium, a relay or two, and a voice coil could automate reading the disk by stamping the 'bits' into a paper tape to be read by the bank of scribes decoding it. Or shooting a photo through the cd onto a silver emulsion plate and then enlarging the prints for easier viewing. How many scribes does it take to decode a JPEG using the abacus? In this hypothetical post apocalypse are we talking WaterWorld or are there lots of spare discretes left working after the EMP/nuclear war, asteroid, wrath of God hits us? Rube Goldberg contraptions facinate don't they. Regards, Jeff In , on 12/12/00 at 05:16 PM, "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" said: >By then, we may resolve the question on this list. >By then, will MICROS~1 have been broken up? >By then, will we have a RELIABLE OS? >BTW, recent experiments were UNsuccessful at starting fire using CDs. >Therefore, what good will they be? -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 12 16:34:01 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: need a HDD References: <949.381T1300T10785153optimus@canit.se> <003f01c0647a$a4e78d40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <3A369DD0.347805F0@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <002001c0648b$a0993200$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Unfortunately, ESDI won't work with the MSC9305 S-100 HDC. The '9305 uses MFM, by the way, but in order to avoid meddling with good, solid code, I want to install an adequate replacement. I once had a number of Seagate 4144's (?) which worked OK on this controller, but it's got to have at least 8 heads and at least 640 cylinders. The '9305 can only step at one rate, 3 ms/step, so speed isn't an issue. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "emanuel stiebler" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 2:51 PM Subject: Re: need a HDD > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 > > cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. If anyone has somthing that > > will fit this geometry, and it's available, I'd like to be informed. > > What about a micropolis 1355 ? > > (more the 1000 cyliners, but 8 head, 5'25 & esdi) > > cheers > > From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Dec 12 16:48:10 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Ruby Rod memory? In-Reply-To: <200012112302.PAA03555@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <20001212223722.ZOXS18624.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> A few months ago I was shown a couple of arrays of memory which used teensy Ruby Rods in place of the standard ferrite doughnuts. An array consisted of lots of the rods gridded out like core. The array was sandwitched between two clear, plastic, adhesive sheets. Why ruby rods over cores? Ruby sounds expensive. What were the benefits? How do you make teensie ruby rods and who did it? How common was this type of memory? Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From geneb at deltasoft.com Tue Dec 12 16:41:50 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: 10,000 years? (was: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: <001101c06484$8496a620$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: > > Bill Gates XXXXXXXIIIV > > > Shouldn't that be LXX (for the first part)? Maybe you can write out in > decimal what IIIV is supposed to be, since only ONE lesser character to the > left is subtracted, and the two remaining 'I's are meaningless. Richard, it's a joke fer chrissakes. It's meant to be amusing, not accurate. There are times when one shouldn't be too pedantic. This is one of those times. :) g. From emu at ecubics.com Tue Dec 12 17:01:25 2000 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: need a HDD References: <949.381T1300T10785153optimus@canit.se> <003f01c0647a$a4e78d40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <3A369DD0.347805F0@ecubics.com> <002001c0648b$a0993200$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3A36AE45.49919220@ecubics.com> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Unfortunately, ESDI won't work with the MSC9305 S-100 HDC. The '9305 uses Sorry, my fault. I thought this "E" in Rodime 204E stands for ESDI interface. So how about a micropolis 1325 ? Cheers From optimus at canit.se Tue Dec 12 16:31:51 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Altos 8600 boot disk In-Reply-To: <4.1.20001211180528.0513e730@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <615.381T2550T14116091optimus@canit.se> Doug Coward skrev: >Hi, > I'm trying to help someone find a copy of a >8" boot disk for an Altos 8600. Hmm, where does one find eight-inch disks these days? I've only seen an eight-incher with my own eyes once in my life. 5? inchers aren't that uncommon if you look around, but the 8" ones seem to have been outmoded a great while ago... -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Ed ecco un altro esempio in cui le sigle italiane e francesi sono uguali ... non avrei mai creduto di poter un giorno dire una cosa del genere, ma secondo me Crostina D'Avena canta meglio. Tacchan s?gar den franska signaturen till Creamy Mami From epgroot at ucdavis.edu Tue Dec 12 16:58:57 2000 From: epgroot at ucdavis.edu (Edwin P. Groot) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Altos 8600 boot disk In-Reply-To: <4.1.20001211180528.0513e730@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001212145857.007bc4c0@yellow.ucdavis.edu> Thanks for pitching in for me Doug! I am the someone looking for an 8" boot disk. Here some details: The manual says the OS's written for it are: Xenix, Oasis-16, CP/M-86, and MP/M-86. The drive is SS/DD, but the boot track needs to be SD because the boot loader can handle only SD. I am also looking for its diagnostics disk called ADX. The system is designed like a file-server. The machine can't boot off its 8" hard drive (Quantum '40), and I fear it has a head crash. I found after a few power-ups that the belt was off the motor spindle. The damn belt has to be held in place until the drive gets to speed, otherwise it promptly comes off at power-up. Anyone with a solution for this stupid hard drive? Thanks, Edwin At 06:26 PM 12/11/2000 -0800, you wrote: >Hi, > I'm trying to help someone find a copy of a >8" boot disk for an Altos 8600. > Thanks, > --Doug >========================================= >Doug Coward >Press Start Inc. >Sunnyvale,CA >========================================= > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 12 15:40:44 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: (no subject) In-Reply-To: <3A36924D.81BB8C9D@ipom.com> from "Phil Dibowitz" at Dec 12, 0 01:02:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3880 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001212/b5249c79/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 12 15:49:58 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: <1076.381T1000T10814337optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Dec 12, 0 09:17:02 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2707 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001212/7cd7c5e6/attachment.ksh From foxvideo at wincom.net Tue Dec 12 17:02:34 2000 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: 10,000 years? (was: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: <001101c06484$8496a620$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001212180033.009e0dc0@mail.wincom.net> At 02:43 PM 12/12/2000 -0700, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gene Buckle" > > ... though the roman numeral boondoggle below didn't originate with him ... > >To: >Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 1:22 PM >Subject: Re: 10,000 years? (was: Data Archival (OT Long) > > > > > By then, we may resolve the question on this list. > > > > > > By then, will MICROS~1 have been broken up? > > > > > Yes, but not in the way you think. You see, January 23rd, 10,002 the > > Microsoft Commonwealth will be invaded by a hideous race known as the > > Zorg. They invade us because of a bad trade agreement. It seems > > that when they installed Windows 10,000 in their hospitals, the > > systems crashed and all the tiny little Zorglings in the creche > > die. > > > > They'll completely devistate humanity in a ragged war that will > > last a hundred years. By the time we defeat them, we'll be once again > > trapped in Mother Earth's gravity well. > > > > All won't be lost though since an enterprising young man will discover a > > cache of Z-80 (and glue logic) chip mask drawings etched in gold. Thus > > the 2341st Computer Revolution will be born. This same individual will > > find the glass holodisc archive of http://www.retroarchive.org and CP/M > > will once again flourish in the land. > > > > Bill Gates XXXXXXXIIIV > > I suspect that whatever OS is used in 10K years, it will have to be readable by rats, roaches or termites. Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: The Old Walkerville Virtual Museum at http://skyboom.com/foxvideo and Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 12 17:04:21 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Wang t-shirt (humor?) Message-ID: First, Yes, Wang was indeed bought by Getronics (bunch of useless SOBs, if you wonder why I say this just *try* to get some docs from 'em). Second, for Iggy and any other non-Americans/persons not familiar with slang meanings of the word "Wang", it is another term for penis, which is why Martin was laughed at, and why I can get my friends to laugh by telling them I have a 600lb. Wang (VS300). I don't personally think anything is wrong with Wang, they're pretty darn advanced machines, and they actually run real TCP/IP... They like nasty X.25 and RS-449 and crap like that, but you can't have everything... Nice pin, I have a Wang coffee mug myself, as well as 2 Wang computers, the VS and a 2200MVP. Will J _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Dec 11 21:07:01 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Fw: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker Message-ID: <000201c06495$c5842390$6b799a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >Anyway, one such book (aimed at older children I guess) was called >'Making a Transistor Radio'. The set was built on a wooden board, using >woodscrews and screwcuop washers as terminials (and thus no soldering was >involved). You started out making a crystal set, then added a single >audio stage (OC71), then a second stage (another OC71), then added a >loudspeaker (using an LT700 output transformer). And finally you replaced >the crystal detector with the OC45 regenerative stage. It's been years since I built that way but the first transistor design I did was back in '65 with my first "RF' transistor 2n384. It was regenerative. The battle (for me) back then I lived less than a mile from 3000W daytime AM radio station. Not listening to that was indeed a learning expereince. >Hmm, I'd never want to build a live-chassis set. Isolated PSUs seem like >a very good idea on experimental designs... I'd agree but it was a cheap circuit. >Never built a valve radio. Built other valve stuff over the years, though... It good fun. I did one recently on maple (real wood breadboard) using some of the talves (tubes) provided by one of the members. I went for the classic Q5er, 4 tubes in all, osc/mixer feeding a regenerative IF at 455kc followed by one stage of audio. Makes a fair shortwave RX. Radio is one thing I still enjoy. Allison From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Dec 12 15:59:09 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: CD's as parabolic mirrors? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001212084239.02524640@pc> References: <3A359A8A.4240D0F6@coin.org> <002501c18d7c$a5cc3810$bfac0b18@burltn1.wa.home.com> <3A30FE4A.20AD1D7C@coin.org> <20001210223158.M13740@spies.com> <20001211212139.31096.qmail@brouhaha.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20001211183430.01cc7910@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001212155745.01965788@208.226.86.10> At 08:43 AM 12/12/2000 -0600, John Foust wrote: >How about the possibility that the disc is warped slightly >when it's punched from a larger piece of plastic? That and Dwight's comments on the manufacturing process are also probably spot on. Someone off list suggested that perhaps the plastic has a slightly higher expansion co-efficient than the "label/backing" material which would also account for it. --Chuck From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Dec 12 18:11:45 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: Ebay: PDP 16/M Super MiniComputer Message-ID: <004101c06499$bc366830$6b799a8d@ajp166> From: Marvin >I just looked at Ebay and found out that the PDP 16/M is a roll-your-own PDP >8 or PDP 11. I sure wish DEC had let me know this information when I took >the maintenance classes on it at the Maynard training facility. Here I >always thought it was just a glorified solid state controller. We could have >saved some money instead of buying the 11/05 and 11/45s :). The URL is: It's neither an 8 or an 11. It was what you wanted it to be based on how you built it. Allison From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 12 18:33:06 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: need a HDD References: <949.381T1300T10785153optimus@canit.se> <003f01c0647a$a4e78d40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3A36C3C2.71DCCA9E@rain.org> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 > cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. If anyone has somthing that > will fit this geometry, and it's available, I'd like to be informed. My memory (and docs) are not so good right now, but isn't that basically the same configuration as the Seagate 251? If so, I probably have several of them just sitting around *waiting* for an application to pop up :). Let me know if you need one. From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 12 18:37:55 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:37 2005 Subject: need a HDD References: <949.381T1300T10785153optimus@canit.se> <003f01c0647a$a4e78d40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <3A369DD0.347805F0@ecubics.com> <002001c0648b$a0993200$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <3A36AE45.49919220@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <002601c0649c$ef36ddc0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Rodime had numerous patents with respect to spindle motor control and stepping motor operation. The 'E' refers to their implementation of one of their fancy techniques for fast stepping with half-stepping the head actuator. Their drives were very nearly as fast as voice-coil driven models, and cost considerably less, at the time. Voice coils drove them off the market once their prices came down. That took away their market edge, which was speed as reflected in the average access time. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "emanuel stiebler" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 4:01 PM Subject: Re: need a HDD > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Unfortunately, ESDI won't work with the MSC9305 S-100 HDC. The '9305 uses > > Sorry, my fault. I thought this "E" in Rodime 204E stands for ESDI > interface. > > So how about a micropolis 1325 ? > > Cheers > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 12 18:41:23 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: 10,000 years? (was: Data Archival (OT Long) References: Message-ID: <003001c0649d$6b638060$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Having only recently disposed of my locally resident teen-aged sons, I'm still oversensitized to sophomoric humor, which, despite my attenuated appreciation, is still, humor. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gene Buckle" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 3:41 PM Subject: Re: 10,000 years? (was: Data Archival (OT Long) > > > Bill Gates XXXXXXXIIIV > > > > > Shouldn't that be LXX (for the first part)? Maybe you can write out in > > decimal what IIIV is supposed to be, since only ONE lesser character to the > > left is subtracted, and the two remaining 'I's are meaningless. > > Richard, it's a joke fer chrissakes. It's meant to be amusing, not > accurate. There are times when one shouldn't be too pedantic. This is > one > of those times. :) > > g. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 12 18:50:16 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: need a HDD References: <949.381T1300T10785153optimus@canit.se> <003f01c0647a$a4e78d40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <3A36C3C2.71DCCA9E@rain.org> Message-ID: <002d01c0649e$a925a1c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> The drive I need must have >639 cylinders and >7 heads. The drive I'm wanting to replace has 640 cylinders and 8 heads. IIRC, the '251 has 6 heads and 612 cylinders.. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 5:33 PM Subject: Re: need a HDD > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 > > cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. If anyone has somthing that > > will fit this geometry, and it's available, I'd like to be informed. > > My memory (and docs) are not so good right now, but isn't that basically the > same configuration as the Seagate 251? If so, I probably have several of > them just sitting around *waiting* for an application to pop up :). Let me > know if you need one. > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 12 18:53:47 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: need a HDD References: <949.381T1300T10785153optimus@canit.se> <003f01c0647a$a4e78d40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <3A36C3C2.71DCCA9E@rain.org> Message-ID: <004c01c0649f$26806420$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I just received an email while in the middle of deleting a "folder" and it seemingly disappeared. If anybody sent me an email in the last 5 minutes, and you don't get a reply from me, then please send it again. I hate to leave email unanswered. thanks, Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 5:33 PM Subject: Re: need a HDD > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 > > cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. If anyone has somthing that > > will fit this geometry, and it's available, I'd like to be informed. > > My memory (and docs) are not so good right now, but isn't that basically the > same configuration as the Seagate 251? If so, I probably have several of > them just sitting around *waiting* for an application to pop up :). Let me > know if you need one. > > From jpero at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 12 14:13:03 2000 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: need a HDD In-Reply-To: <3A36C3C2.71DCCA9E@rain.org> Message-ID: <20001213010355.TQWL1373.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> > Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:33:06 -0800 > From: Marvin > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: need a HDD > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 > > cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. If anyone has somthing that > > will fit this geometry, and it's available, I'd like to be informed. > > My memory (and docs) are not so good right now, but isn't that basically the > same configuration as the Seagate 251? If so, I probably have several of > them just sitting around *waiting* for an application to pop up :). Let me > know if you need one. Mavin, In MFM world, most commonest n of heads and cylinders is usually 6xx and 8xx and 4 to 6 heads. Beyond that, that not very common. ST251 is 820 (check) x 6 heads (not met) needs 8. On this topic, Even I was latecomer to MFM I deal with MFM/RLL, exrotic ESDI in early '90's. While I was thinking, why not have someone design and program a adapter to take MFM/RLL as well as ESDI and translate it to SCSI or IDE and wrap it up in DSP and all in one microcontroller, interface chipset and some ram, rom? This way, helps people to upkeep their oddball machine that insists on odd drives. To set up that adapter board to report specific cylinders range and heads, N of sectors that reports back to that host machine and just "LL format" the scsi or IDE hd if needed then HLF it in normal manner as you would do with any MFM/RLL, ESDI drives. Cheers, Wizard From eweidenh1 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 12 20:12:31 2000 From: eweidenh1 at hotmail.com (Erich Weidenhammer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: x1541 Message-ID: I’m getting ready to make a x1541 cable to connect my Commodore 64 drive to the parallel port of my PC. Unfortunately, the existing instructions are a little to cryptic for a complete novice like me. For example, how do I distinguish between the 25 wires in the parallel cable? Is there a sequence I should follow? What’s the best way to connect the wires? Any advice would really be appreciated. Thanks all. _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 12 20:23:15 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: need a HDD References: <20001213010355.TQWL1373.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> Message-ID: <001101c064ab$d14f6340$1192fea9@idcomm.com> It seems as though, whenever there's a substantial discussion about rotating memory systems for the computers of yesteryear, the muddled distinctions between "drive type" as used for describing what is being sought gets mixed up with "drive interface" and "modulation type" among other concepts. Here, again, we have a reference to MFM/RLL, both of which are modulation techniques, both of which were commonly used by SCSI, SMD, and ESDI drives, among others. Another item that doesn't seem to help, is that the distiction between physical interface, e.g. ST-506/412 (actually the same, from all obvious features, though there were some minor differences), gets mixed in as well. SMD is an interface specification, as are SCSI, SASI, and ESDI. A look at the SEAGATE spec's for their various drives, including those made by CDC before SEAGATE acquired them, and you'll see ESDI drives that use RLL and other that use ERLL and still others using MFM. Likewise with SCSI products and SMD. Real confusion comes from the fact that people referred to drives as being RLL or MFM drives, which was, perhaps, a difference, but not in the drives. There were a few models that performed badly with RLL that performed better (more reliably) with MFM, but those were the exception rather than the rule. The drive, actually the head/media combination, determined the flux reversal density, and the spindle speed determined the resulting bit rate, right? It seems simple enough. Sadly, there's more ... particularly after the adoption of ZBR, in which the data rate with respect to time borrowed from the strategy of CLV recording as used with optical media as opposed to the previously popular CAV. It's no wonder that folks are confused, but it's been 10 years or more since MFM fell out of fashion, and, in fact, since controllers became a drive function rather than a host adapter function. You'd think folks would have gotten these concepts straightened out. That drive I'm looking for has to have at least 8 heads, and it has to have at least 640 cylinders. In this particular case, until I find my source code, I can't benefit from more heads or cylinders, nor can I "get by" with fewer. I have plenty of drives that don't fit this model, but I want one that will, to help stomp out an immediate fire. Knocking out an interface that would handle all the modulation schemes, data rate variations, and wiredo data rates, etc, might not be so easy as it looks. Yes, one could analyze the format with a combination of various hardware and firmware techniques, and that way one could continue to use hardware that would otherwise be unsupportable, but that's the sort of thing that companies like Adaptec or Mylex spend megabucks to accomplish for just ONE of the modulation types. The reason that's what's spent is because it can't really be done for much less. If you want to do that, then have at it. I've done lots of this sort of work, yet nobody's offered me a dime to build an RLL or MFM controller for an ST506-type drive in the last ten years. It's much easier to replace the drive with one of the more modern ones, rated, yet not really expected, to have a lifetime of >100K hours, while the ones of 10 years ago were rated for MTBF's of 5-10 KHours. I can't see how anybody could justify the investment in technology that will croak in a year or two. It's easier to rework the firmware and replace the old, 150-lb SMD with a 150-gram microdrive of 20x the capacity. You can mount that on the board next to one of the IC's and it will get lost. Thanks, Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 1:13 PM Subject: Re: need a HDD > > Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:33:06 -0800 > > From: Marvin > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: need a HDD > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 > > > cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. If anyone has somthing that > > > will fit this geometry, and it's available, I'd like to be informed. > > > > My memory (and docs) are not so good right now, but isn't that basically the > > same configuration as the Seagate 251? If so, I probably have several of > > them just sitting around *waiting* for an application to pop up :). Let me > > know if you need one. > > Mavin, > > In MFM world, most commonest n of heads and cylinders is usually 6xx > and 8xx and 4 to 6 heads. Beyond that, that not very common. > > ST251 is 820 (check) x 6 heads (not met) needs 8. > > On this topic, > > Even I was latecomer to MFM I deal with MFM/RLL, exrotic ESDI in > early '90's. > > While I was thinking, why not have someone design and program a > adapter to take MFM/RLL as well as ESDI and translate it to SCSI or > IDE and wrap it up in DSP and all in one microcontroller, interface > chipset and some ram, rom? This way, helps people to upkeep their > oddball machine that insists on odd drives. To set up that adapter > board to report specific cylinders range and heads, N of sectors that > reports back to that host machine and just "LL format" the scsi or > IDE hd if needed then HLF it in normal manner as you would do with > any MFM/RLL, ESDI drives. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 12 20:25:28 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: need a HDD References: <20001213010355.TQWL1373.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> Message-ID: <001401c064ab$f58e41e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> It seems as though, whenever there's a substantial discussion about rotating memory systems for the computers of yesteryear, the muddled distinctions between "drive type" as used for describing what is being sought gets mixed up with "drive interface" and "modulation type" among other concepts. Here, again, we have a reference to MFM/RLL, both of which are modulation techniques, both of which were commonly used by SCSI, SMD, and ESDI drives, among others. Another item that doesn't seem to help, is that the distiction between physical interface, e.g. ST-506/412 (actually the same, from all obvious features, though there were some minor differences), gets mixed in as well. SMD is an interface specification, as are SCSI, SASI, and ESDI. A look at the SEAGATE spec's for their various drives, including those made by CDC before SEAGATE acquired them, and you'll see ESDI drives that use RLL and other that use ERLL and still others using MFM. Likewise with SCSI products and SMD. Real confusion comes from the fact that people referred to drives as being RLL or MFM drives, which was, perhaps, a difference, but not in the drives. There were a few models that performed badly with RLL that performed better (more reliably) with MFM, but those were the exception rather than the rule. The drive, actually the head/media combination, determined the flux reversal density, and the spindle speed determined the resulting bit rate, right? It seems simple enough. Sadly, there's more ... particularly after the adoption of ZBR, in which the data rate with respect to time borrowed from the strategy of CLV recording as used with optical media as opposed to the previously popular CAV. It's no wonder that folks are confused, but it's been 10 years or more since MFM fell out of fashion, and, in fact, since controllers became a drive function rather than a host adapter function. You'd think folks would have gotten these concepts straightened out. That drive I'm looking for has to have at least 8 heads, and it has to have at least 640 cylinders. In this particular case, until I find my source code, I can't benefit from more heads or cylinders, nor can I "get by" with fewer. Thanks, Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 1:13 PM Subject: Re: need a HDD > > Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:33:06 -0800 > > From: Marvin > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: need a HDD > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 > > > cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. If anyone has somthing that > > > will fit this geometry, and it's available, I'd like to be informed. > > > > My memory (and docs) are not so good right now, but isn't that basically the > > same configuration as the Seagate 251? If so, I probably have several of > > them just sitting around *waiting* for an application to pop up :). Let me > > know if you need one. > > Mavin, > > In MFM world, most commonest n of heads and cylinders is usually 6xx > and 8xx and 4 to 6 heads. Beyond that, that not very common. > > ST251 is 820 (check) x 6 heads (not met) needs 8. > > On this topic, > > Even I was latecomer to MFM I deal with MFM/RLL, exrotic ESDI in > early '90's. > > While I was thinking, why not have someone design and program a > adapter to take MFM/RLL as well as ESDI and translate it to SCSI or > IDE and wrap it up in DSP and all in one microcontroller, interface > chipset and some ram, rom? This way, helps people to up keep their > oddball machine that insists on odd drives. To set up that adapter > board to report specific cylinders range and heads, N of sectors that > reports back to that host machine and just "LL format" the scsi or > IDE hd if needed then HLF it in normal manner as you would do with > any MFM/RLL, ESDI drives. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 12 20:25:35 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: need a HDD References: <20001213010355.TQWL1373.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> Message-ID: <001501c064ab$f98370e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> It seems as though, whenever there's a substantial discussion about rotating memory systems for the computers of yesteryear, the muddled distinctions between "drive type" as used for describing what is being sought gets mixed up with "drive interface" and "modulation type" among other concepts. Here, again, we have a reference to MFM/RLL, both of which are modulation techniques, both of which were commonly used by SCSI, SMD, and ESDI drives, among others. Another item that doesn't seem to help, is that the distiction between physical interface, e.g. ST-506/412 (actually the same, from all obvious features, though there were some minor differences), gets mixed in as well. SMD is an interface specification, as are SCSI, SASI, and ESDI. A look at the SEAGATE spec's for their various drives, including those made by CDC before SEAGATE acquired them, and you'll see ESDI drives that use RLL and other that use ERLL and still others using MFM. Likewise with SCSI products and SMD. Real confusion comes from the fact that people referred to drives as being RLL or MFM drives, which was, perhaps, a difference, but not in the drives. There were a few models that performed badly with RLL that performed better (more reliably) with MFM, but those were the exception rather than the rule. The drive, actually the head/media combination, determined the flux reversal density, and the spindle speed determined the resulting bit rate, right? It seems simple enough. Sadly, there's more ... particularly after the adoption of ZBR, in which the data rate with respect to time borrowed from the strategy of CLV recording as used with optical media as opposed to the previously popular CAV. It's no wonder that folks are confused, but it's been 10 years or more since MFM fell out of fashion, and, in fact, since controllers became a drive function rather than a host adapter function. You'd think folks would have gotten these concepts straightened out. That drive I'm looking for has to have at least 8 heads, and it has to have at least 640 cylinders. In this particular case, until I find my source code, I can't benefit from more heads or cylinders, nor can I "get by" with fewer. Thanks, Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 1:13 PM Subject: Re: need a HDD > > Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:33:06 -0800 > > From: Marvin > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: need a HDD > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 > > > cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. If anyone has somthing that > > > will fit this geometry, and it's available, I'd like to be informed. > > > > My memory (and docs) are not so good right now, but isn't that basically the > > same configuration as the Seagate 251? If so, I probably have several of > > them just sitting around *waiting* for an application to pop up :). Let me > > know if you need one. > > Mavin, > > In MFM world, most commonest n of heads and cylinders is usually 6xx > and 8xx and 4 to 6 heads. Beyond that, that not very common. > > ST251 is 820 (check) x 6 heads (not met) needs 8. > > On this topic, > > Even I was latecomer to MFM I deal with MFM/RLL, exrotic ESDI in > early '90's. > > While I was thinking, why not have someone design and program a > adapter to take MFM/RLL as well as ESDI and translate it to SCSI or > IDE and wrap it up in DSP and all in one microcontroller, interface > chipset and some ram, rom? This way, helps people to up keep their > oddball machine that insists on odd drives. To set up that adapter > board to report specific cylinders range and heads, N of sectors that > reports back to that host machine and just "LL format" the scsi or > IDE hd if needed then HLF it in normal manner as you would do with > any MFM/RLL, ESDI drives. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 12 20:25:56 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: need a HDD References: <20001213010355.TQWL1373.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> Message-ID: <001c01c064ac$063716c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> It seems as though, whenever there's a substantial discussion about rotating memory systems for the computers of yesteryear, the muddled distinctions between "drive type" as used for describing what is being sought gets mixed up with "drive interface" and "modulation type" among other concepts. Here, again, we have a reference to MFM/RLL, both of which are modulation techniques, both of which were commonly used by SCSI, SMD, and ESDI drives, among others. Another item that doesn't seem to help, is that the distiction between physical interface, e.g. ST-506/412 (actually the same, from all obvious features, though there were some minor differences), gets mixed in as well. SMD is an interface specification, as are SCSI, SASI, and ESDI. A look at the SEAGATE spec's for their various drives, including those made by CDC before SEAGATE acquired them, and you'll see ESDI drives that use RLL and other that use ERLL and still others using MFM. Likewise with SCSI products and SMD. Real confusion comes from the fact that people referred to drives as being RLL or MFM drives, which was, perhaps, a difference, but not in the drives. There were a few models that performed badly with RLL that performed better (more reliably) with MFM, but those were the exception rather than the rule. The drive, actually the head/media combination, determined the flux reversal density, and the spindle speed determined the resulting bit rate, right? It seems simple enough. Sadly, there's more ... particularly after the adoption of ZBR, in which the data rate with respect to time borrowed from the strategy of CLV recording as used with optical media as opposed to the previously popular CAV. It's no wonder that folks are confused, but it's been 10 years or more since MFM fell out of fashion, and, in fact, since controllers became a drive function rather than a host adapter function. You'd think folks would have gotten these concepts straightened out. That drive I'm looking for has to have at least 8 heads, and it has to have at least 640 cylinders. In this particular case, until I find my source code, I can't benefit from more heads or cylinders, nor can I "get by" with fewer. Thanks, Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 1:13 PM Subject: Re: need a HDD > > Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:33:06 -0800 > > From: Marvin > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: Re: need a HDD > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 > > > cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. If anyone has somthing that > > > will fit this geometry, and it's available, I'd like to be informed. > > > > My memory (and docs) are not so good right now, but isn't that basically the > > same configuration as the Seagate 251? If so, I probably have several of > > them just sitting around *waiting* for an application to pop up :). Let me > > know if you need one. > > Mavin, > > In MFM world, most commonest n of heads and cylinders is usually 6xx > and 8xx and 4 to 6 heads. Beyond that, that not very common. > > ST251 is 820 (check) x 6 heads (not met) needs 8. > > On this topic, > > Even I was latecomer to MFM I deal with MFM/RLL, exrotic ESDI in > early '90's. > > While I was thinking, why not have someone design and program a > adapter to take MFM/RLL as well as ESDI and translate it to SCSI or > IDE and wrap it up in DSP and all in one microcontroller, interface > chipset and some ram, rom? This way, helps people to up keep their > oddball machine that insists on odd drives. To set up that adapter > board to report specific cylinders range and heads, N of sectors that > reports back to that host machine and just "LL format" the scsi or > IDE hd if needed then HLF it in normal manner as you would do with > any MFM/RLL, ESDI drives. > > Cheers, > > Wizard > > From jpl15 at panix.com Tue Dec 12 22:12:14 2000 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Put on your obscure toy hats gang! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm reasonably familiar with the 80s Strand stuff: the 'getting it functional' question is... did you get the dimmer modules, power distro, and control distro cabinets with it? These would be large metal cabinets full of longish modules having a very prominent toroidial choke and most likely a big finned heatsink, all mounted horizontally on either side of a central 'spine' power buss... kinda like big circuit breakers. In fact, if it's the era I'm thinking of, each module might well carry it's own breaker. Cheerz John From ernestls at home.com Tue Dec 12 22:43:16 2000 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <003f01c0647a$a4e78d40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: My girlfriend was watching the movie "Pretty in Pink" the other day, and I stopped to watch the library scene, where Molly Ringwald was doing some typing on her computer, and was rudely interrupted by her would-be teenage boyfriend. That's when I realized that the computer that she was using was a Televideo TS-802(or 803?) Does anyone remember that scene -with the magic photos and computer sounds that you never hear outside of the movies? It got me thinking though about other old computers that I've seen in movies recently. Here's what I can remember so far. Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success IMSAI -Wargames I've seen various IBM PC's but I was thinking about the older Non-IBM PC systems. Can anyone remember other movies with vintage computers? What was the computer they used in Weird Science? Didn't they use something unusual in Ferris Buhler's Day Off(did I spell his last name correctly?) Ernest From jtinker at coin.org Tue Dec 12 23:01:00 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: (no subject) References: Message-ID: <3A37028C.9E4A9AEF@coin.org> > > I then did some looking around in the dark and my heater seems to be > > malfunctioning... it doens't glow, it more sparks. The picture is really > Arcing is happening at the site of the problem. It could be inside of the pin, where solder has dribbled out, or wasn't too good to begin with. Or, as has been suggested, where the pin socket connects to the board. > > > light and fades away to black. It will occasionally come back but > > usually fades again right away. Fading is compatible with the idea that the heater is cooling off, due to an intermittent. > So I looked along the little clear bulb > > on the back of the crt and ther was a small block dot on one part that > > looks like somethign underneith it had burned. The dot was about a cm in > > > > diameter.. maybe 2, but it was very small. Does this mean the heater is A 2 cm burn sounds big. I would investigate the cause of the burn. A intermittent connection can get hot. -- John Tinker From jtinker at coin.org Tue Dec 12 23:09:50 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: 10,000 years? (was: Data Archival (OT Long) References: <20001212222551.ZGSX18624.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <3A37049E.5CC20D03@coin.org> THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > CD's are mighty shiny. After the holocaust we can trade them as baubles > to the natives. After the holocaust, anybody left will *BE* the natives. From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 12 22:11:15 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Ernest wrote: > What was the computer they used in Weird Science? Didn't they use something > unusual in Ferris Buhler's Day Off(did I spell his last name correctly?) We had this discussion a long while back. The Weird Science computer was a Memotech MTX512 (is that the right number?) I think the computer in FB was just a PC, but what is really funny about that scene is the almost hinted at acknowledgement of Matthew Broderick's role in War Games. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 12 23:37:29 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: need a HDD In-Reply-To: <001c01c064ac$063716c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Geez Dick, and some of you other guys as well, once was enough! Twice is too much. - don On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It seems as though, whenever there's a substantial discussion about rotating > memory systems for the computers of yesteryear, the muddled distinctions > between "drive type" as used for describing what is being sought gets mixed > up with "drive interface" and "modulation type" among other concepts. Here, > again, we have a reference to MFM/RLL, both of which are modulation > techniques, both of which were commonly used by SCSI, SMD, and ESDI drives, > among others. Another item that doesn't seem to help, is that the > distiction between physical interface, e.g. ST-506/412 (actually the same, > from all obvious features, though there were some minor differences), gets > mixed in as well. SMD is an interface specification, as are SCSI, SASI, and > ESDI. > > A look at the SEAGATE spec's for their various drives, including those made > by CDC before SEAGATE acquired them, and you'll see ESDI drives that use RLL > and other that use ERLL and still others using MFM. Likewise with SCSI > products and SMD. > > Real confusion comes from the fact that people referred to drives as being > RLL or MFM drives, which was, perhaps, a difference, but not in the drives. > There were a few models that performed badly with RLL that performed better > (more reliably) with MFM, but those were the exception rather than the rule. > The drive, actually the head/media combination, determined the flux reversal > density, and the spindle speed determined the resulting bit rate, right? It > seems simple enough. Sadly, there's more ... particularly after the > adoption of ZBR, in which the data rate with respect to time borrowed from > the strategy of CLV recording as used with optical media as opposed to the > previously popular CAV. It's no wonder that folks are confused, but it's > been 10 years or more since MFM fell out of fashion, and, in fact, since > controllers became a drive function rather than a host adapter function. > You'd think folks would have gotten these concepts straightened out. > > > > That drive I'm looking for has to have at least 8 heads, and it has to have > at least 640 cylinders. In this particular case, until I find my source > code, I can't benefit from more heads or cylinders, nor can I "get by" with > fewer. > > Thanks, > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 1:13 PM > Subject: Re: need a HDD > > > > > Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:33:06 -0800 > > > From: Marvin > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Re: need a HDD > > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > > > Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 > > > > cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. If anyone has somthing > that > > > > will fit this geometry, and it's available, I'd like to be informed. > > > > > > My memory (and docs) are not so good right now, but isn't that basically > the > > > same configuration as the Seagate 251? If so, I probably have several of > > > them just sitting around *waiting* for an application to pop up :). Let > me > > > know if you need one. > > > > Mavin, > > > > In MFM world, most commonest n of heads and cylinders is usually 6xx > > and 8xx and 4 to 6 heads. Beyond that, that not very common. > > > > ST251 is 820 (check) x 6 heads (not met) needs 8. > > > > On this topic, > > > > Even I was latecomer to MFM I deal with MFM/RLL, exrotic ESDI in > > early '90's. > > > > While I was thinking, why not have someone design and program a > > adapter to take MFM/RLL as well as ESDI and translate it to SCSI or > > IDE and wrap it up in DSP and all in one microcontroller, interface > > chipset and some ram, rom? This way, helps people to up keep their > > oddball machine that insists on odd drives. To set up that adapter > > board to report specific cylinders range and heads, N of sectors that > > reports back to that host machine and just "LL format" the scsi or > > IDE hd if needed then HLF it in normal manner as you would do with > > any MFM/RLL, ESDI drives. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Wizard > > > > > > > > From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 12 23:39:25 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: need a HDD In-Reply-To: <001101c064ab$d14f6340$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Jeez! Four times!!! - don On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > It seems as though, whenever there's a substantial discussion about rotating > memory systems for the computers of yesteryear, the muddled distinctions > between "drive type" as used for describing what is being sought gets mixed > up with "drive interface" and "modulation type" among other concepts. Here, > again, we have a reference to MFM/RLL, both of which are modulation > techniques, both of which were commonly used by SCSI, SMD, and ESDI drives, > among others. Another item that doesn't seem to help, is that the > distiction between physical interface, e.g. ST-506/412 (actually the same, > from all obvious features, though there were some minor differences), gets > mixed in as well. SMD is an interface specification, as are SCSI, SASI, and > ESDI. > > A look at the SEAGATE spec's for their various drives, including those made > by CDC before SEAGATE acquired them, and you'll see ESDI drives that use RLL > and other that use ERLL and still others using MFM. Likewise with SCSI > products and SMD. > > Real confusion comes from the fact that people referred to drives as being > RLL or MFM drives, which was, perhaps, a difference, but not in the drives. > There were a few models that performed badly with RLL that performed better > (more reliably) with MFM, but those were the exception rather than the rule. > The drive, actually the head/media combination, determined the flux reversal > density, and the spindle speed determined the resulting bit rate, right? It > seems simple enough. Sadly, there's more ... particularly after the > adoption of ZBR, in which the data rate with respect to time borrowed from > the strategy of CLV recording as used with optical media as opposed to the > previously popular CAV. It's no wonder that folks are confused, but it's > been 10 years or more since MFM fell out of fashion, and, in fact, since > controllers became a drive function rather than a host adapter function. > You'd think folks would have gotten these concepts straightened out. > > > > That drive I'm looking for has to have at least 8 heads, and it has to have > at least 640 cylinders. In this particular case, until I find my source > code, I can't benefit from more heads or cylinders, nor can I "get by" with > fewer. I have plenty of drives that don't fit this model, but I want one > that will, to help stomp out an immediate fire. > > Knocking out an interface that would handle all the modulation schemes, data > rate variations, and wiredo data rates, etc, might not be so easy as it > looks. Yes, one could analyze the format with a combination of various > hardware and firmware techniques, and that way one could continue to use > hardware that would otherwise be unsupportable, but that's the sort of thing > that companies like Adaptec or Mylex spend megabucks to accomplish for just > ONE of the modulation types. The reason that's what's spent is because it > can't really be done for much less. If you want to do that, then have at > it. > > I've done lots of this sort of work, yet nobody's offered me a dime to build > an RLL or MFM controller for an ST506-type drive in the last ten years. > It's much easier to replace the drive with one of the more modern ones, > rated, yet not really expected, to have a lifetime of >100K hours, while the > ones of 10 years ago were rated for MTBF's of 5-10 KHours. I can't see how > anybody could justify the investment in technology that will croak in a year > or two. It's easier to rework the firmware and replace the old, 150-lb SMD > with a 150-gram microdrive of 20x the capacity. You can mount that on the > board next to one of the IC's and it will get lost. > > Thanks, > > Dick > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 1:13 PM > Subject: Re: need a HDD > > > > > Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:33:06 -0800 > > > From: Marvin > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: Re: need a HDD > > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > > > Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 > > > > cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. If anyone has somthing > that > > > > will fit this geometry, and it's available, I'd like to be informed. > > > > > > My memory (and docs) are not so good right now, but isn't that basically > the > > > same configuration as the Seagate 251? If so, I probably have several of > > > them just sitting around *waiting* for an application to pop up :). Let > me > > > know if you need one. > > > > Mavin, > > > > In MFM world, most commonest n of heads and cylinders is usually 6xx > > and 8xx and 4 to 6 heads. Beyond that, that not very common. > > > > ST251 is 820 (check) x 6 heads (not met) needs 8. > > > > On this topic, > > > > Even I was latecomer to MFM I deal with MFM/RLL, exrotic ESDI in > > early '90's. > > > > While I was thinking, why not have someone design and program a > > adapter to take MFM/RLL as well as ESDI and translate it to SCSI or > > IDE and wrap it up in DSP and all in one microcontroller, interface > > chipset and some ram, rom? This way, helps people to upkeep their > > oddball machine that insists on odd drives. To set up that adapter > > board to report specific cylinders range and heads, N of sectors that > > reports back to that host machine and just "LL format" the scsi or > > IDE hd if needed then HLF it in normal manner as you would do with > > any MFM/RLL, ESDI drives. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Wizard > > > > > > > From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Dec 12 23:33:13 2000 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Lee Felsenstein Sol article online Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001212212943.00ba21c0@pacbell.net> List member Bob Stek has OCR'd a very interesting article written by Lee Felsenstein back in 1977 for ROM magazine. The subject of the article is how the Sol was designed and implemented, and the whirlwind events leading up to demoing the prototype. The original article that Bob OCR'd was supplied by Ray Borrill, whom I just turned onto this list and may be lurking. Ray, if you are there, take a bow and introduce yourself. Ray has had a long and interesting link to the now vintage micro field. Check out the article: http://www.thebattles.net/sol20/ROM_7_1977.pdf ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Dec 12 23:46:38 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: amiga 500 Message-ID: <200012130546.WAA29152@calico.litterbox.com> I just got my hands on an amiga 500. I realise I have to get my hands on a workbench boot floppy for it, etc, and I have an idea what all the ports are on one. Does anyone have any tips, tricks, etc that I should know? Something like "how to wire a monitor cable and monitors that will work with it" would be a huge help. Whee! I've wanted an Amiga since they were new. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jpl15 at panix.com Wed Dec 13 00:30:33 2000 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: CRT Problems was:(no subject) In-Reply-To: <3A37028C.9E4A9AEF@coin.org> Message-ID: If the 'burn mark' on the inside of the neck of the tube is silvery-edged and/or mettallic looking, then it is possible that is the residue of the "getter" flash. To sweep out the last of the reactive gas molecules that are left in a vacuum tube (mostly dissolved in the surfaces of the elements) a small amount of a compound called a getter is caused to burn inside the tube after evacuation. This absorbs the last bits of gas in the device and deposits them on the side of the neck. Note that if this 'getter spot' is grey or has flakey edges (not silvery) then your CRT is most likely gassy and needs to be sent to Picture Tube Heaven. On the other front, if the heater is 'arcing' in the tube, this could mean that it is actually open and not making contact all the time, or that there is a short between the heater element and the cathode structure... both of which scenarios bode ill for your Tube. The picture disturbances that you report sound like loss-of-emission symptoms that I would expect to see if the heater/filament is intermittent. One last Thought: there used to be a quite common little gizmo called a CRT Rejuvenator... basically it hit the heater/cathode parts with a momentary elevated voltage to burn away shorts and attempt to re-weld open heater filaments. You might try this, but it's a Last Resort type of thing and seldom (if ever) permanent. Cheerz John From webmaster at ipom.com Wed Dec 13 01:03:49 2000 From: webmaster at ipom.com (Phil Dibowitz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: CRT Problems was:(no subject) References: Message-ID: <3A371F55.E4E0625D@ipom.com> Thanks to all who have responded... based on many replies, I think I understand everything well enough to ask better questions: > If the 'burn mark' on the inside of the neck of the tube is silvery-edged > and/or mettallic looking, then it is possible that is the residue of the > "getter" flash. To sweep out the last of the reactive gas molecules that Yeah, silvery, not flaky. So that's a good thing > On the other front, if the heater is 'arcing' in the tube, this could > mean that it is actually open and not making contact all the time, or that > there is a short between the heater element and the cathode > structure... both of which scenarios bode ill for your Tube. The picture > disturbances that you report sound like loss-of-emission symptoms that I > would expect to see if the heater/filament is intermittent. Ok, what exactly does it mean for a heater to be arcing? It starts to glow then stops, then starts, then stops. Also, Several people have have used intermittent in this context and I'm not quite sure I understand... it is intermittent in the fact that it intermittently starts and stops glowing... I have my TV closed again, but when I open it up again I want to have a list of all the things I need to look for and what to do about them. So far, I know I need to look for bad connectiions, broken 'pins', to make double sure the little mark is silvery instead of gray. However, all the wires and soldering seemed to be in tact, of the connections I could see everything was fine. BTW, I'm relatively (70%) sure I know what parts are what based on descriptions here, but does anyone know of a site with pictures that labels different parts so I can get a better idea of what is what? Thanks. Phil -- Insanity Palace of Metallica www.ipom.com webmaster@ipom.com -- From red at bears.org Wed Dec 13 01:51:09 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Ernest wrote: > What was the computer they used in Weird Science? Didn't they use something > unusual in Ferris Buhler's Day Off(did I spell his last name correctly?) I'm nearly certain Ferris had an IBM PC of some sort, and that the computer in Weird Science was a Commodore, of the VIC-20 or C=64 variety. It'd be worth independent verification. My memory is like one of those... oh... er... those things with the holes in. ok r. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 13 01:08:42 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: 10,000 years? (was: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: <20001212222551.ZGSX18624.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> References: Message-ID: >I've seen websites dedicated to arts/crafts useing AOL cd's as the main >component. One even made a full-size Christmas tree! Years ago at the Consumer Electronics Show one of the big CD wholesaler or manufacturers had a hanging array of reject CDs, a cube of 20x20x20, very flashy. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 13 02:15:38 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at "Dec 13, 0 02:51:09 am" Message-ID: <200012130815.AAA10864@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > What was the computer they used in Weird Science? Didn't they use something > > unusual in Ferris Buhler's Day Off(did I spell his last name correctly?) > > I'm nearly certain Ferris had an IBM PC of some sort, and that the > computer in Weird Science was a Commodore, of the VIC-20 or C=64 variety. > > It'd be worth independent verification. My memory is like one of > those... oh... er... those things with the holes in. Yeah, Ferris had a PC. The Mac Plus showed up in Star Trek IV. Apparently, numerous European movies use the C64 as props, I'm told. I'm also told that Jewel of the Nile has some CBM 600s/B128s in it but I haven't seen that movie in ages. Must go dig it up. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- He hadn't a single redeeming vice. -- Oscar Wilde -------------------------- From agraham at ccat.co.uk Wed Dec 13 04:57:49 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: G4IDE and ][GS disks Message-ID: <00Dec13.105755gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:20:52 +0000 (GMT) > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: Apricot & G4IDE > > The other possibility is that this is some kind of timing card (the > counters would give that impression) and that the audio > signal from the > radio receiver is fed into the Cassette Input of the ZX81. > You may have > the complete unit apart from the software. > > Have you considered looking him up in the callbook (assuming > he's in it) > and writing to him to ask what the unit is? I did a google search for him and found him in Boston, Lincs. It IS a timing card but it's for the Spectrum, not ZX81, despite the edge connector. The software was called RTTY and he can't remember that much about it since it was so long ago, but it received weather FAX data by radio and RTTY graphed it up on a Speccy......cool :) As an aside I've just won an Apple 5 1/4 drive (still in its plastic bag :) that will go nicely on my Woz GS. The problem I now have is getting the disk images off one of my Macs and onto a 5 1/4" disk! Any clues? I don't yet have a suitable drive on the PC but getting one won't be too difficult....... adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Dec 13 04:52:33 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: need a HDD In-Reply-To: <003f01c0647a$a4e78d40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:32:27 -0700 Richard Erlacher wrote: > Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 > cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. I have a Rodime 204E in the loft at home. Of course, home is in Bristol, UK. Do you have any plans for a European holiday? :-) -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From kevan at heydon.org Wed Dec 13 04:55:42 2000 From: kevan at heydon.org (Kevan Heydon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > We had this discussion a long while back. The Weird Science computer was > a Memotech MTX512 (is that the right number?) Correct. Plus it had the large FDX box attached too. I have always wondered how a british computer, that didn't sell very well, ended up in a holywood movie. -- Kevan Collector of old computers: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From agraham at ccat.co.uk Wed Dec 13 05:35:01 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: radio kits Message-ID: <00Dec13.113501gmt.46099@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:39:07 +0000 (GMT) > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > Subject: Re: Fw: Professors worry that engineering students > don't tinker > > involved). You started out making a crystal set, then added a single > audio stage (OC71), then a second stage (another OC71), then added a > loudspeaker (using an LT700 output transformer). And finally > you replaced > the crystal detector with the OC45 regenerative stage. > > I think the book is still around, even if the transistors are hard to > find now. I remember the son of a technician at a place I was > working a > few years back was building one -- I managed to find him some OC71s. > > I thought just about all UK hobbyists built this at one time > or another... Nope - I had (and still have) my Radio Shack crystal radio kit to tinker with, followed by one of the Science Fair electronics kits where you had loads of spring terminals and small jumper wires to build circuits with......I found it the other day and it was dated 1973 :) adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum From agraham at ccat.co.uk Wed Dec 13 06:07:22 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: WANG, strange PC and Apple 1 prototypes Message-ID: <00Dec13.120723gmt.46103@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Isn't it true that several years ago Wang came up with a new customer programme called "Wang Care" and the guy that came up with the name was fired? Anyway, whilst helping my company clear out its electronics test shop I came away with a few goodies, namely a couple of MicroVAX 2000s, a boxed IBM PS/2 laptop, a 100mhz Oscilloscope, a VR262 mono monitor, a VT220, a huge bundle of VAX and PDP cards, complete (I think) boardset for an RL02 drive AND a box containing some read/write heads, some MicroVAX 3100 memory (20mb! Woo), floppy controller and motherboard for a PRO380 (with the possibility of the machine itself coming too) and what I can only assume is a CPU testbed. It's an Amtron 386 PC with an interface card and strange 4 pin power-out sockets that connect to an array of long and heavy metal-encased boxes that have umbilicals on with sockets or connectors to plug in the CPUs themselves. I've got modules for 8086, 8088, 286, 386SX, 386DX, 486 and 68000 CPUs......haven't powered the machine up yet though. Anyone come across one of these before? As for that supposed prototype Apple 1 auction, the full size picture of it is at http://www.sfcapital.com/ebay/full.jpg..... it just seems odd to me that it's in a case when the final product didn't have one..... adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum From russ at rbcs.8m.com Wed Dec 13 07:24:03 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: x1541 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If at all possible and in file form (text/PDF/etc) could you attach a copy over to me? I have 5 or 6 1541's and have been wanting to copy some C64/128/128D stuff over to my PC to be able to store it on CDRW media and get rid of the old bulky 5.25" disks or at least put them in safe storage withhout worry that age will impede their quality. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Erich Weidenhammer Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 8:13 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: x1541 I?m getting ready to make a x1541 cable to connect my Commodore 64 drive to the parallel port of my PC. Unfortunately, the existing instructions are a little to cryptic for a complete novice like me. For example, how do I distinguish between the 25 wires in the parallel cable? Is there a sequence I should follow? What?s the best way to connect the wires? Any advice would really be appreciated. Thanks all. ____________________________________________________________________________ _________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Dec 13 07:37:51 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 18:51:23 +0000 (GMT) Tony Duell wrote: > > least) was television. Then Philips came out with the > > N1500 video recorder, and then the first calculators and > > Do you have an N1500. No, but I wish I did. I've got three N1700s, though. > I remember seeing one in a London shop in 1972-ish > and dreaming of getting one. I saw one in a TV shop in Colchester, likewise. > Now, 28 years later, I have a couple of > them, working (of course), and the service manual. It's actually quite an > interesting design both mechanically and electronically. Now, the TV shop is long gone and the shop's a charity shop. Hmm... maybe, if I keep going in there, eventually an N1500 will turn up in the charity shop? > It's unusual for me to have a day when I don't turn the iron on, though. There speaks a true hacker. BTW, Tony, do you know anything about a Gould K100D logic analyser? -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 13 08:38:10 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: WANG, strange PC and Apple 1 prototypes In-Reply-To: WANG, strange PC and Apple 1 prototypes (Adrian Graham) References: <00Dec13.120723gmt.46103@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <14903.35282.26832.986360@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 13, Adrian Graham wrote: > Isn't it true that several years ago Wang came up with a new customer > programme called "Wang Care" and the guy that came up with the name was > fired? I dunno about that, but I first heard it from the same guy that told me that Wang was merging with Siemens. Fa-tump-tump! -Dave McGuire From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Dec 13 08:22:00 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <200012130815.AAA10864@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001213082014.02e8ad80@pc> At 12:15 AM 12/13/00 -0800, Cameron Kaiser wrote: >> > What was the computer they used in Weird Science? Didn't they use something >> > unusual in Ferris Buhler's Day Off(did I spell his last name correctly?) >> >> I'm nearly certain Ferris had an IBM PC of some sort, and that the >> computer in Weird Science was a Commodore, of the VIC-20 or C=64 variety. > >Yeah, Ferris had a PC. The script at http://members.tripod.com/~MrHyde/ferris.txt claims: 52 INT. FERRIS' ROOM : Ferris is at his Macintosh computer. He has his record up on the screen. FERRIS I wanted a car. I got a computer. How's that for being born under a bad sign? - John From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 13 09:19:57 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: need a HDD References: Message-ID: <003701c06518$272301c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> What? Is the same message showing up more than once? Must be some sort of brain fart! I may learn to drive this thing some day ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 10:39 PM Subject: Re: need a HDD > > Jeez! Four times!!! > - don > > On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > > It seems as though, whenever there's a substantial discussion about rotating > > board next to one of the IC's and it will get lost. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 1:13 PM > > Subject: Re: need a HDD > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 16:33:06 -0800 > > > > From: Marvin > > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > Subject: Re: need a HDD > > > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Just in case someone's got one, I'm looking for a hard disk with 640 > > > > > cylinders x 8 heads to replace a Rodime 204E. If anyone has somthing > > that > > > > > will fit this geometry, and it's available, I'd like to be informed. > > > > > > > > My memory (and docs) are not so good right now, but isn't that basically > > the > > > > same configuration as the Seagate 251? If so, I probably have several of > > > > them just sitting around *waiting* for an application to pop up :). Let > > me > > > > know if you need one. > > > > > > Mavin, > > > > > > In MFM world, most commonest n of heads and cylinders is usually 6xx > > > and 8xx and 4 to 6 heads. Beyond that, that not very common. > > > > > > ST251 is 820 (check) x 6 heads (not met) needs 8. > > > > > > On this topic, > > > > > > Even I was latecomer to MFM I deal with MFM/RLL, exrotic ESDI in > > > early '90's. > > > > > > While I was thinking, why not have someone design and program a > > > adapter to take MFM/RLL as well as ESDI and translate it to SCSI or > > > IDE and wrap it up in DSP and all in one microcontroller, interface > > > chipset and some ram, rom? This way, helps people to upkeep their > > > oddball machine that insists on odd drives. To set up that adapter > > > board to report specific cylinders range and heads, N of sectors that > > > reports back to that host machine and just "LL format" the scsi or > > > IDE hd if needed then HLF it in normal manner as you would do with > > > any MFM/RLL, ESDI drives. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Wizard > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From bills at adrenaline.com Wed Dec 13 09:55:44 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > It got me thinking though about other old computers that I've > seen in movies recently. Here's what I can remember so far. > > Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink > AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success > IMSAI -Wargames Real Genius - HP-150 From marvin at rain.org Wed Dec 13 10:04:56 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies References: Message-ID: <3A379E28.BEB41436@rain.org> Kevan Heydon wrote: > > On Tue, 12 Dec 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > We had this discussion a long while back. The Weird Science computer was > > a Memotech MTX512 (is that the right number?) > > Correct. Plus it had the large FDX box attached too. > > I have always wondered how a british computer, that didn't sell very well, > ended up in a holywood movie. The one I have is new in the box. Turns out they were given out as incentives for people to attend some sales pitches for something I don't recall now (vacation timeshares?). My guess is that since the MTX512s weren't selling well, the company was able to pick they up for very little and could still make the claim people would get a computer for attending the sales pitch. From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Wed Dec 13 09:59:37 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: x1541 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00121309593702.00217@Billbob_Linux> Hello, I've built several of these cables... On Tuesday 12 December 2000 20:12, you wrote: > Im getting ready to make a x1541 cable to connect my Commodore 64 drive to > the parallel port of my PC. Unfortunately, the existing instructions are a > little to cryptic for a complete novice like me. For example, how do I > distinguish between the 25 wires in the parallel cable? By making a chart, of the pin numbers on the connector, and then one-by-one testing with an ohmmeter until you have determined the layout. AFAIK, there is no universal color code for the inside of a parallel cable. However, I took an easier (but less politically correct) approach. I purchased a C-64 printer cable off of eBay for about $3, and cut it in half. This gave me two cables, with a DIN-5 attached to one end of each. I then made a color / pin chart of these cables (much easier, only 5 conductors now...). I bought a couple of DB-25 male connectors & hoods from Radio Shack, and soldered them onto the ends. The basic cable can be made this way in about 20 minutes. In one case, I made the basic X1541 cable, and in another, I made the second design that uses the diodes. The cable with the diodes is more flexible; it will work on just about any type of parallel port, whereas the basic X1541 *requires* a SPP (standard) parallel port. Most newer machines can change the type of port in the BIOS, but this is a hassle, and it tends to confuse a certain MS operating system that we will not mention. Is there a sequence > I should follow? Whats the best way to connect the wires? Any advice would > really be appreciated. Solder the wires; that is the only way to connect them. There are also crimp style DB connectors, but IMO, they suck (and they require additional investment in tools). Good luck, this is a fun and very worthwhile project. You will feel all goofy when you see that 1541 drive light come on, and data starts moving into the PC. -- Bill Layer Sales Technician From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Wed Dec 13 10:08:15 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Fixing CRT heaters (was: Re: CRT Problems) In-Reply-To: <3A371F55.E4E0625D@ipom.com> References: <3A371F55.E4E0625D@ipom.com> Message-ID: <00121310081503.00217@Billbob_Linux> Hi, On Wednesday 13 December 2000 01:03, you wrote: > understand everything well enough to ask better questions: > > If the 'burn mark' on the inside of the neck of the tube is > > silvery-edged and/or mettallic looking, then it is possible that is the > > residue of the "getter" flash. To sweep out the last of the reactive > > gas molecules that > > Yeah, silvery, not flaky. So that's a good thing Great, then it's not a burn, it's a good sign. If the silvery deposit becomes hazy or translucent, it means that the tube is losing vacuum. Tubes with weak vacuum run hot, which compounds the loss of life. However, your problem with the intermittent heater is a pretty common thing to have happend in the old days. There is a way to fix it, usually... You will need to find someone with a picture tube tester that has the filament 'repair' feature. What this really is, is a fairly large (500uf or better) capacitor, that gets charged up to about 250VDC and then is applied across the (open) heater contacts on the tube. It helps to first jar the tube slightly, and test to make sure that the heater is (at least at that moment) totally open, before applying the voltage. Now the voltage is applied. The tube is then jarred slightly, until the open heater makes a light contact, at which time the cap discharges like a mini arc-welder and tags the heater filament back in place. This works well, and can be done many times. If your heater is open internally, this is the best (and only) route for effecting a repair. Good luck, I hope you are able to fix it. -- Bill Layer Sales Technician From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 13 10:39:27 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001213082014.02e8ad80@pc> from John Foust at "Dec 13, 0 08:22:00 am" Message-ID: <200012131639.IAA09774@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >> > What was the computer they used in Weird Science? Didn't they use > > > something > >> > unusual in Ferris Buhler's Day Off(did I spell his last name correctly?) > >> > >> I'm nearly certain Ferris had an IBM PC of some sort, and that the > >> computer in Weird Science was a Commodore, of the VIC-20 or C=64 variety. > > > >Yeah, Ferris had a PC. > > The script at http://members.tripod.com/~MrHyde/ferris.txt claims: > > 52 INT. FERRIS' ROOM : Ferris is at his Macintosh computer. He > has his record up on the screen. > > FERRIS > I wanted a car. I got a computer. How's > that for being born under a bad sign? I distinctly remember that computer having a 5.25" floppy, and that doesn't sound like a Mac to me :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I must confess, I was born at a very early age. -- Groucho Marx ------------ From RCini at congressfinancial.com Wed Dec 13 13:39:00 2000 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E3549@MAIL10> I think that the computer in Wierd Science was a Memotech FDX 500. Rich -----Original Message----- From: Cameron Kaiser [mailto:spectre@stockholm.ptloma.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 11:39 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Vintage computers in movies > >> > What was the computer they used in Weird Science? Didn't they use > > > something > >> > unusual in Ferris Buhler's Day Off(did I spell his last name correctly?) > >> > >> I'm nearly certain Ferris had an IBM PC of some sort, and that the > >> computer in Weird Science was a Commodore, of the VIC-20 or C=64 variety. > > > >Yeah, Ferris had a PC. > > The script at http://members.tripod.com/~MrHyde/ferris.txt claims: > > 52 INT. FERRIS' ROOM : Ferris is at his Macintosh computer. He > has his record up on the screen. > > FERRIS > I wanted a car. I got a computer. How's > that for being born under a bad sign? I distinctly remember that computer having a 5.25" floppy, and that doesn't sound like a Mac to me :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I must confess, I was born at a very early age. -- Groucho Marx ------------ From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 13 14:04:05 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies Message-ID: Blah on all these lame PC (meaning personal and not necessarily IBM) pieces of garbage... One of the Jurassic Park movies (the 2nd one I think), has a Thinking Machines CM-5 in it... And I know there's an independant film that has a VAX 11/750 in it, I even own that particular VAX (well until I give it to Herr Stiebler).. that movie also feautres nifty IBM 3290 plasma display panels, which I also own. Will J _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com From broekh at interchange.ubc.ca Wed Dec 13 14:13:31 2000 From: broekh at interchange.ubc.ca (Henry Broekhuyse) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: G4IDE and ][GS disks (slightly off topic) In-Reply-To: <00Dec13.105755gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <000301c06541$29f9f2e0$0200a8c0@thinkpad> > -----Original Message----- > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Adrian Graham > As an aside I've just won an Apple 5 1/4 drive (still in its > plastic bag :) > that will go nicely on my Woz GS. The problem I now have is > getting the disk > images off one of my Macs and onto a 5 1/4" disk! Any clues? I don't yet > have a suitable drive on the PC but getting one won't be too > difficult....... If you don't have one already, get a 3.5" floppy drive for your GS (even on ebay these rarely cost more than $10). A Mac is able to read and write ProDOS formatted 3.5" floppies, making this a convenient means of transferring files. Your PC will be of no use for data transfer by floppy, even with a 5.25" floppy drive installed. The GCR recording method used by the Apple II series of computers cannot be read or written by a *standard* PC floppy drive controller. If you must use a PC, the "easiest to implement" method of file transfer with an Apple II series computer is via a "null modem" serial connection. From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 13 13:40:09 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <3A379E28.BEB41436@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Marvin wrote: > The one I have is new in the box. Turns out they were given out as > incentives for people to attend some sales pitches for something I > don't recall now (vacation timeshares?). My guess is that since the > MTX512s weren't selling well, the company was able to pick they up for > very little and could still make the claim people would get a computer > for attending the sales pitch. Hey, that's how I got my first computer! The Mattel Aquarius. Sure, it didn't turn out to be as grand as the advertising made it seem, but it is what got me where I am today :) I had to beg my parents to take me to the timeshare place. They had to endure two hours of sales pitch so that I could get the stupid thing. And then when we got home and I hooked it up my dad was upset that I was hogging the TV and he couldn't watch his news :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 13 11:33:24 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001213082014.02e8ad80@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: > The script at http://members.tripod.com/~MrHyde/ferris.txt claims: > > 52 INT. FERRIS' ROOM : Ferris is at his Macintosh computer. He > has his record up on the screen. Except that it wasn't a Mac. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 13 11:30:32 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Kevan Heydon wrote: > I have always wondered how a british computer, that didn't sell very well, > ended up in a holywood movie. It "looks" like a computer (at least to some Hollywood prop dood). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 13 15:00:47 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:38 2005 Subject: G4IDE and ][GS disks (slightly off topic) In-Reply-To: <000301c06541$29f9f2e0$0200a8c0@thinkpad> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Henry Broekhuyse wrote: > Your PC will be of no use for data transfer by floppy, even with a 5.25" > floppy drive installed. The GCR recording method used by the Apple II series > of computers cannot be read or written by a *standard* PC floppy drive > controller. If you must use a PC, the "easiest to implement" method of file > transfer with an Apple II series computer is via a "null modem" serial > connection. I was trying to transfer WP files the other day using a method Tony mentioned: printing the files through a null modem cable to a PC. So I hooked it all up but for some reason AppleWorks does not behave properly when I print the file. I'm telling it to print to an ImageWriter on Slot 2. I have a Super Serial Card there but the jumper block is configured to "MODEM", although this should not have any effect on how bytes are sent through the card. That jumper block is really just like a null modem thingy. Anyway, nothing comes out over the serial cable to my PC. AppleWorks basically locks up and I have to reset (whichAW recovers from by throwing me back into the main menu). I verified the connection was good by testing it with ProTerm and I was able to send and receive characters on both ends. Any ideas? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From red at bears.org Wed Dec 13 16:38:37 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: unlabeled media Message-ID: Howdy folks. I've got a bit of a dilemma on my hands. Included in my most recent rescue were a large number of 5.25" floppies and data cassettes---on the order of perhaps a hundred to a hundred fifty each. Only a handful of either are labeled in such a manner as to identify the type of machine they work with. It is safe to assume I have the hardware to use any of the media. The possibilites include: for 5.25" media: Apple II; Commodore VIC-20, C=64, or B128 (8050 drive); Atari 8-bits; Heath H89A; OSI C1P; TRS-80 Model I I'm assuming any hard-sectored media I find belongs to the Northstar Advantage. for data cassette: Apple II; Commodore VIC-20, or C=64; Atari 8-bits; OSI C1P; TRS-80 Model I, or Color Computer; Tomy Tutor; Coleco Adam; TI-99/4A; Spectravideo SVI 328 On top of this, there is the possibility that there are 'digital' data tapes for the Meta-80 drive which works with the TRS-80. From what I can tell, the cassettes are externally identical. I could iteratively run the entire 'unknown' batch through each machine, but it seems like the chance for error there is great, especially with the cassettes. Does anybody have any suggestions on how to do this so I end up with the least chance of error and minimize any destruction of data? Thanks. ok r. From optimus at canit.se Tue Dec 12 20:00:11 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1425.382T550T1804259optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >I don't even think we'll even have a problem by 2038 to tell you the >truth. Look at what's happened to computers since 1962. Now project that >forward 38 more years and try to imagine how pointless this discussion >will have been. Why do you think that will be the case? We've had computers for 50 years, and in the last 30, they haven't changed all that much. We've had the "file" concept for longer than many of us have cared to live, as well as interactive and even graphic terminals. It is very possible for a modern machine to exchange data with a CP/M machine. The same goes for any old UNIX or VAX. We're right now at a stage where computers are permeating every aspect of everyday life and society, and though we might not be aware of it, we're beginning to find ourselves uneasy without heavy computer support. I doubt that this data dependency will diminish soon. Particularly when you look at how unimaginative computer business is. How many revolutionary concepts do you see each day? And how many succeed? I don't see us leaving the basic computing concepts established in the 70s and 80s in the next decade or two. We might gain a lot of embedded systems (at least that's what the industry hopes for), but general purpose computers will surely fulfill an important role in the future, too. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. MUSIK G?R MAN AV PLAST OCH KISEL! TR?D ANV?NDER MAN TILL M?BLER! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 13 16:57:50 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1121 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001213/b0f67952/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 13 16:59:14 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: G4IDE and ][GS disks Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 571 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001213/285fe888/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 13 17:01:09 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Radio kits Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2492 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001213/9c097a39/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 13 17:06:25 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: CRT Problems Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1870 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001213/d3fa376f/attachment.ksh From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 13 17:26:28 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: First personal computer nostalgia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1160.383T1400T265073optimus@canit.se> Mark Price skrev: >1985,86? Atari 520ST, still have it, and thanks to John's question, anxious >to put it back together and see how it's doing. My wife was still writing >grad-school papers on it in '90 or so. 1st Word, no spell-check, no page >numbering, not much formatting at all. The printer was a Silver Reed >daisy-wheel typewriter with an optional interface box. (Still have that, >too.) Clackety-clackety-clack. It paused between pages so you could switch >paper. I recall with mixed fondness/not-so-fondness pulling all-night term >paper sessions, the last hour or so of which consisted in sitting there, >changing paper in the printer...zzzzzzzzz. At time of purchase, I was >insanely jealous of my friend's Atari 1050ST with the humongous 1mb hard >disk: "The silence of those infinite spaces terrified me." --Pascal. >(Blaise, not Turbo.) I'm sorry, but I feel it's nitpicking time... I've never heard of an Atari 1050ST before, nor of a 1 MB hard drive fitted to an ST. OTOH, there is the Atari 1040ST, which had 1 MB of RAM. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish prison." From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 13 17:57:13 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: WANG, strange PC and Apple 1 prototypes In-Reply-To: <14903.35282.26832.986360@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <757.383T650T574759optimus@canit.se> Dave McGuire skrev: >On December 13, Adrian Graham wrote: >> Isn't it true that several years ago Wang came up with a new customer >> programme called "Wang Care" and the guy that came up with the name was >> fired? > I dunno about that, but I first heard it from the same guy that told >me that Wang was merging with Siemens. They too? Fujitsu-ICL (Didn't they once devour Bull or Nokia data?) have recently merged with Siemens' computer division, too. And they've managed to make a mess out of their websites, too, unluckily for those of us looking for a manual or other relevant info on our non-mainframes. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Goto: A programming tool that exists to allow structured programmers to complain about unstructured programmers. From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 13 18:26:27 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: amiga 500 In-Reply-To: <200012130546.WAA29152@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <813.383T1350T864659optimus@canit.se> Jim Strickland skrev: >I just got my hands on an amiga 500. I realise I have to get my hands on a >workbench boot floppy for it, etc, and I have an idea what all the ports are >on one. Does anyone have any tips, tricks, etc that I should know? >Something like "how to wire a monitor cable and monitors that will work with >it" would be a huge help. Whee! I've wanted an Amiga since they were new. :) http://www.hardwarebook.net/ (everyone should have it bookmarked) has got the pinouts. Getting the D23 might be problematic, but I know several sources around here. You'll get just about every 15KHz monitor to work, both analogue and digital. Possible models: Commodore 1081, 1084, 1085, 1940, 1942; Nec Multisync II, 3D. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 13 17:42:52 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3355.383T2600T425837optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> >Do you have an N1500. I remember seeing one in a London shop in 1972-ish >> >and dreaming of getting one. Now, 28 years later, I have a couple of >> >them, working (of course), and the service manual. It's actually quite an >> >interesting design both mechanically and electronically. >> >> Is this a "VCR" system? >That depends on what you mean by 'VCR system' (and Philips themselves >changed the meaning a few times). Pre-Video2000 arcane square cassette home video system. Of course, Philips quickly discarded the PV2KASCHVS acronym for the catchier VCR, or so my sources claim. >The N1500 casssette is almost square, and has the 2 spools stacked one on >top of the other, with a concentric drive spindle in the machine to turn >them separately. One result of this is that the head disk is almost >parallel to the deck, since the tape is naturally slanted to go between >the 2 spools. I find the ?eta cassette very elegant, due to its size, as well as the one large window. >Later Philips machines (the Video 2000 series) also had a 'VCR' logo on >them. I didn't know that. I think I'll have to look closer the next time I find such a machine, then. >The tapes for these are little larger than VHS cassettes, and have >2 spools side by side. The cassettes can be inserted either way up, like >an audio compact cassette. And like an audio compact cassette, you record >on one side, flip the tape over and record on the other side. Yes, that's really handy. 480 minutes on one cassette in SP, I'd like that very much, thank you. OTOH, I've got a Sony Betacam cassette sporting the numbers 500 here (I haven't got a recorder to test it, it's just for pre- emptive pruposes). Could it really hold 500 minutes on such a single-sided, miniscule cassette? >The electronics, though is rather complicated. Part of this is due to the >fact that the machines are old enough that there weren't single-chip >ASICs for many functions -- there are a lot of fairly simple chips and a >couple of microcontrollers inside. The electronics is all plug-in cards, >with functions like IF strip, audio, luminance, chrominance, tape servo, >head servo, timer, tuner control, etc. Yes I do have the service manual. Ooh, I love plug-in architectures in home electronics. Once disassembled a 70s TV with such an architecture (How my grandmother let me, I wouldn't know. High currents, vacuum and an 11 year-old boy can cause a lot of trouble). But wasn't V2000 a tad late in the race? IIRC, it came in '82, when home video was rapidly becoming popular, and there was already an established user base and infrastructure for other systems, primarily VHS. Certainly, it seems to have been technologically superior, but it should have been released earlier. >> I wouldn't be able to collect old videos as well, they don't lend >> themselves very well to stacking, what with the cassette entry at the top. >Well, you can stack them when you're not using them :-) Does anyone manufacture modern V2k systems? =) BTW, when I bought my record player (a year ago), the old man in the shop still had unopened VCR cassette for sale. Good to know when you get a recorder. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "Real life is full of idiots, and tons of ads. I don't see how IRC is any different, other than a lot more people want to have sex with you." -- m3000 From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 13 17:29:17 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Steve Wozniak on A&E Biography tonight Message-ID: Steve Wozniak is profiled on A&E's Biography tonight. And my hands make their television debut, playing Steve Wozniak's hands in a couple re-enactments. Now that my hands have achieved celebrity status, they are available for other bookings, such as dinner speeches, Bar Mitzvahs and bachelorette parties. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 13 19:35:58 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: WANG, strange PC and Apple 1 prototypes In-Reply-To: Re: WANG, strange PC and Apple 1 prototypes (Iggy Drougge) References: <14903.35282.26832.986360@phaduka.neurotica.com> <757.383T650T574759optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <14904.9214.487090.165808@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 14, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >> Isn't it true that several years ago Wang came up with a new customer > >> programme called "Wang Care" and the guy that came up with the name was > >> fired? > > > I dunno about that, but I first heard it from the same guy that told > >me that Wang was merging with Siemens. > > They too? Fujitsu-ICL (Didn't they once devour Bull or Nokia data?) have > recently merged with Siemens' computer division, too. And they've managed to > make a mess out of their websites, too, unluckily for those of us looking for > a manual or other relevant info on our non-mainframes. Indeed. But I think you missed the reference. ;) -Dave McGuire From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 13 18:43:47 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Data Archival (OT Long) In-Reply-To: <3A35B9F7.D6CA1DAA@coin.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, John Tinker wrote: > I presume that if the culture is not continuous, the chance that any > subsequent culture will be able to make sense out of our data is > slight, and perhaps not holding much relevant value anyway, for their > future. Very good point. We still haven't figured out the Mayan heiroglyphics, and if it wasn't for the Rosetta Stone we probably would not yet have revealed Egyptian heiroglyphics. We still don't and probably won't ever know what's encoded on Inca Quipus. > If the culture is continuous, then the data that survives, I think > will do so by floating above any particular medium that carries it. I > assume that multiple copies in a variety of media will propagate among > those who value it. And I doubt that anyone several millenia from now will be interested in running our systems from a practical standpoint, making the whole issue of calendar compliance moot. Multics, one of the oldest operating systems around, is not installed in many places anymore. It's almost a dead OS. I would hate to think people 8,000 years from now would be using Windows ME. It's probably safe to assume that any OS being used that far out (if in fact the concept of an OS even applies) will have no direct or even indirect ties to what we are using today. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From whdawson at mlynk.com Wed Dec 13 19:54:52 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: HP 2392A Terminals free for pickup or cost of shipping In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000901c06570$d97a7e40$5c9e72d1@cobweb.net> Third attempt at posting this. Second was returned as "User unknown". Details are at the end of this email. Am I doing something wrong? I'm sending this one as a reply, but I've changed the subject and removed the original text. I've been trying to send this email to the list since early this afternoon. I didn't see my first post made at 1429 today appear, so I'm reposting this: HP 2392A Terminals free for pickup or cost of shipping, pickup preferred. 7 are located in Philadelphia, PA and 7 are in Tampa, FL. All are still operational and include the original boxes. Please contact Lisa Flores at Abtech Systems by phone or email to make arrangements: (800)474-7397 (Carlsbad, CA) or lisax.flores@xabtechsys.com (remove the x's) Arrangements should be made ASAP. There may be much more HP equipment available in the future for free if this goes well. Abtech has HP and Sun equipment, along with other things such as Netservers, PC's and peripherals, etc. that are not worth shipping back to Carlsbad and may become available to listmembers in the future. Bill Details of returned email: The original message was received at Wed, 13 Dec 2000 16:09:02 -0600 (CST) from IDENT:root@[209.114.158.2] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (expanded from: ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to jade.tseinc.com.: >>> RCPT To: <<< 550 ... User unknown 550 ... User unknown Jay, what's up? From r.stek at snet.net Wed Dec 13 20:18:08 2000 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: DECTalk DTC01 Message-ID: I recently picked up a mint condition (at least cosmetically) DTC01 - it's about the size of a small desktop PC with 2 25 pin serial ports, one for COMM and one for a terminal, two phone jacks, two audio jacks and a volume control. What I was looking for was a Votrax Type 'n' Talk or an IntexTalker, but hey, who's complaining? I did some searching and found that Megan has a commmand summary, Eric Smith has one, and maybe one or two others on the list. There is a list of some initialization commands and sparse docs on the web, but they are rooted in VMS and I don't speak DEC. Since this was way beyond my price range when it came out, I don't know much about it, so any help would be appreciated. What I am hoping is that, like the Intex or Votrax, I can just send a serial text stream to it and hear it spoken. This weekend I will break out my trusty Televideo terminal and fool around with it, but if anyone has docs, I'd happily pay copying/postage. Or just point me in the right direction. I was planning to see if just sending double-square-bracketed [[command string]] in straight ASCII allows me to control it. After that I'll use HyperTerminal to send it "The Hound of the Baskervilles" and let it read me to sleep! Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From mranalog at home.com Wed Dec 13 20:53:13 2000 From: mranalog at home.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies Message-ID: <3A383619.6A5F1E3B@home.com> Bill Sudbrink said: > > It got me thinking though about other old computers that I've > > seen in movies recently. Here's what I can remember so far. > > > > Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink > > AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success > > IMSAI -Wargames > > Real Genius - HP-150 And I'd like to add an analog to the list: "When Worlds Collide"(1951) - the GE Differential Analyzer at UCLA http://avserver.lib.utmem.edu/HSLBC/Instruction/Courses/LBC721/Lecture_2_IntHist/dfl_MOV.html (the Quicktime movie on this page is 7137K) http://avserver.lib.utmem.edu/HSLBC/Instruction/Courses/LBC721/Lecture_2_IntHist/differential_analyzer.gif (Just one frame from the movie) --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA ========================================= From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 13 19:22:20 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: x1541 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <782.383T1000T1424185optimus@canit.se> Russ Blakeman skrev: >If at all possible and in file form (text/PDF/etc) could you attach a copy >over to me? I have 5 or 6 1541's and have been wanting to copy some >C64/128/128D stuff over to my PC to be able to store it on CDRW media and >get rid of the old bulky 5.25" disks or at least put them in safe storage >withhout worry that age will impede their quality. Get rid of..? I'm certain someone on this list would be glad to offer a new home for your disks instead. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. S? ja. Forts?tt bara som du g?r s? kommer du i s?kerhet, och raka dig n?r du kommer hem s? ser du kanske inte ut som en apa. Du kan ju leva ett ombonat liv, t?lja tr?gubbar eller n?t s?nt. Lupin III till Jigen, Lupin den otrolige (Lupin III vs. fukusei ningen), TMS 1978 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Dec 13 21:22:01 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: VAX questions, memory Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001213191944.00a38030@208.226.86.10> I finally got my hands on a VAX 4000/90 (yipee!) and it now takes its place as my fastest VAX. It has 32MB of memory (8 x 4MB modules) and I was wondering if, because it looks a lot like a VAX 4000/60 if I could use memory modules from a 4000/60 in the 4000/90. Also since I've only got 4 16MB modules, can I mix 4MB and 16MB modules? --Chuck From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Dec 13 21:49:20 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: amiga 500 In-Reply-To: <813.383T1350T864659optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Dec 14, 2000 01:26:27 AM Message-ID: <200012140349.UAA00806@calico.litterbox.com> On a related note, I have an applecolor monitor left (and I can probably get another easily and cheaply) - has anyone hacked the plug on the applecolor to plug into the amiga db23 video? I think I have enough info to do it, I'm just wondering if it's already been done. > http://www.hardwarebook.net/ (everyone should have it bookmarked) has got the > pinouts. Getting the D23 might be problematic, but I know several sources > around here. > You'll get just about every 15KHz monitor to work, both analogue and digital. > Possible models: Commodore 1081, 1084, 1085, 1940, 1942; Nec Multisync II, 3D. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > > Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From whdawson at mlynk.com Wed Dec 13 22:49:56 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: CRT Problems was:(no subject) Message-ID: <000101c06589$4e73a2e0$cf9e72d1@cobweb.net> -> Also, Several people have used intermittent in this context and I'm not -> quite sure I understand... it is intermittent in the fact that it -> intermittently starts and stops glowing... Yes. -> I have my TV closed again, but when I open it up again I want to have a list -> of all the things I need to look for and what to do about them. So far, I know -> I need to look for bad connections, broken 'pins', to make double sure the -> little mark is silvery instead of gray. However, all the wires and soldering -> seemed to be in tact, of the connections I could see everything was fine. The thing to look for as far as bad connections go is a cold solder joint. These are a result of thermal fatigue/cycling and physical stresses. You should look _very_ closely in the places Tony mentioned, especially where the CRT socket is soldered to the little board at the rear of the CRT and where the flyback is soldered to the mainboard. A cold solder joint will usually look normal without a close inspection (unless you have a lot of experience at these things), but a closer look will reveal a slight ring around the socket pin, flyback pin or wire, within the circumference of the solder pad. Sometimes the contact will be bad right at the solder/pin interface. That is unless the solder has totally popped away from the circuit pad, which is another type of cold solder joint related to initial improper soldering. I'd recommend resoldering every connection for the CRT socket and flyback transformer and seeing if this fixes the problem. If you are inexperienced at soldering/resoldering, I'm sure we can start a new thread. d8^) Bill From junk at keyways.com Wed Dec 13 18:10:24 2000 From: junk at keyways.com (junk@keyways.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: VAX questions, memory Message-ID: <001214001024.3d6f@keyways.com> >I finally got my hands on a VAX 4000/90 (yipee!) and it now takes its place >as my fastest VAX. It has 32MB of memory (8 x 4MB modules) and I was >wondering if, because it looks a lot like a VAX 4000/60 if I could use >memory modules from a 4000/60 in the 4000/90. Also since I've only got 4 >16MB modules, can I mix 4MB and 16MB modules? > >--Chuck The memory (MS44) from a 4000/60 will work in a 4000/90 in every case I've tried. All the simms in a bank must be the same capacity. I think there should be a diagram of the banks on the inside of the cover, or you can determine the banks by the etched/silkscreened numbers next to the simm sockets. I'm sending this email from a 4000/90a which was quite a step up from my VS3100/30. Good luck. Mitch Keyways From ernestls at home.com Thu Dec 14 00:47:16 2000 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <3A383619.6A5F1E3B@home.com> Message-ID: Cool! So now we've got: >Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink >AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success >IMSAI -Wargames >HP-150 -Real Genius >GE Differential Analyzer (UCLA) -When Worlds Collide >Thinking Machines CM-5 -Jurrasic Park >Memotech FDX500 or MTX512 -Weird Science >Mac Plus -Star Trek IV >VAX 11/750 with IBM 3290 plasma display panels -some independant film (?) It's kind of cool to be able to spot a vintage computer that you recognize in a movie. I never noticed the computers in "Secret to my Success" until I found a AT&T 6300, and then the computers on the desks might as well of had flashing red lights on them. "Hey! I've got one of those." From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 14 00:45:50 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: VCF Archive Online Searchable Database Message-ID: I've put up an alpha version of the forthcoming VCF Archive Online Searchable Database. It is at: http://www.vintage.org/archive/ The only database currently available is the book database, and there are only currently 280 records (I have a loooong way to go :) The point of posting it now is to get feedback on the output format, the interface, and the data itself. It's very rudimentary currently. Eventually, everything in the VCF Archives will be catalogued and entered into the database. You'll be able to search on it and see if we have something you're in need of (hardware, software, documentation, etc). The point will be to facilitate the commercial entities we are increasingly serving but it will also serve to allow hobbyists to find things they are looking for, and hobbyists will always be allowed free access to the items in our archive (though we're not currently set up for that yet). So please take a quick look and let me know what you think. Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 14 01:12:56 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Ernest wrote: > >Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink > >AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success > >IMSAI -Wargames > >HP-150 -Real Genius > >GE Differential Analyzer (UCLA) -When Worlds Collide > >Thinking Machines CM-5 -Jurrasic Park > >Memotech FDX500 or MTX512 -Weird Science > >Mac Plus -Star Trek IV > >VAX 11/750 with IBM 3290 plasma display panels -some independant film (?) More for your list. I hope you compile this so we can just refer to it the next time someone asks this :) Apple //c - that movie where the kids dream about some schematic of some gizmo that they then build and it allows them to travel through space without feeling any inertia and they build a spacecraft and fly to some alien ship and meet some kid aliens (I always forget the damn name of this movie) Apple //c - 2010 Beverly Hills cops has some specific model of an IBM PS/2 (I think). I posted this one before. I know more but my "personal computer" is currently not functioning at optimal parameters. And I still haven't figured out what that computer is in _Electric Dreams_, although I suspect it's a kludged up dealy for visual effect. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Dec 14 02:32:03 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 13, 2000 11:12:56 PM Message-ID: <200012140832.BAA01733@calico.litterbox.com> > > On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Ernest wrote: > > > >Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink > > >AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success > > >IMSAI -Wargames > > >HP-150 -Real Genius > > >GE Differential Analyzer (UCLA) -When Worlds Collide > > >Thinking Machines CM-5 -Jurrasic Park > > >Memotech FDX500 or MTX512 -Weird Science > > >Mac Plus -Star Trek IV > > >VAX 11/750 with IBM 3290 plasma display panels -some independant film (?) > > More for your list. I hope you compile this so we can just refer to it > the next time someone asks this :) > > Apple //c - that movie where the kids dream about some schematic of > some gizmo that they then build and it allows them to travel > through space without feeling any inertia and they build a > spacecraft and fly to some alien ship and meet some kid aliens > (I always forget the damn name of this movie) > Apple //c - 2010 > Beverly Hills cops has some specific model of an IBM PS/2 (I think). I > posted this one before. I've heard that Haywood Floyds computer in 2010 is an apple 2 c with the LCD screen attached. Don't remember it well enough to know for sure. > > I know more but my "personal computer" is currently not functioning at > optimal parameters. > > And I still haven't figured out what that computer is in _Electric > Dreams_, although I suspect it's a kludged up dealy for visual effect. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 14 02:40:18 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <200012140832.BAA01733@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Jim Strickland wrote: > I've heard that Haywood Floyds computer in 2010 is an apple 2 c with > the LCD screen attached. Don't remember it well enough to know for > sure. It is. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Dec 14 07:18:50 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies References: <200012140832.BAA01733@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <003401c065d0$727ef620$0100a8c0@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Strickland" To: Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 7:02 PM Subject: Re: Vintage computers in movies > > > > On Wed, 13 Dec 2000, Ernest wrote: > > > > > >Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink > > > >AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success > > > >IMSAI -Wargames > > > >HP-150 -Real Genius > > > >GE Differential Analyzer (UCLA) -When Worlds Collide > > > >Thinking Machines CM-5 -Jurrasic Park > > > >Memotech FDX500 or MTX512 -Weird Science > > > >Mac Plus -Star Trek IV > > > >VAX 11/750 with IBM 3290 plasma display panels -some independant film (?) > > > > More for your list. I hope you compile this so we can just refer to it > > the next time someone asks this :) > > > > Apple //c - that movie where the kids dream about some schematic of > > some gizmo that they then build and it allows them to travel > > through space without feeling any inertia and they build a > > spacecraft and fly to some alien ship and meet some kid aliens > > (I always forget the damn name of this movie) > > Apple //c - 2010 > > Beverly Hills cops has some specific model of an IBM PS/2 (I think). I > > posted this one before. > > I've heard that Haywood Floyds computer in 2010 is an apple 2 c with the LCD > screen attached. Don't remember it well enough to know for sure. > > > > > I know more but my "personal computer" is currently not functioning at > > optimal parameters. > > > > And I still haven't figured out what that computer is in _Electric > > Dreams_, although I suspect it's a kludged up dealy for visual effect. I remember seeing my personal favourite, (a Vax 6000) in a kids movie a couple months back. Can't remember the title, but they are in a basement lab of some kind, controlling the movement of some ice hockey players above. The Vax is just there in the background, not switched on. I also remember seeing a list of stuff like this on a web site somewhere. It was a REALLY BIG list too. Darn it, must remember to bookmark stuff like that... Cheers Geoff From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Dec 14 07:26:00 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Steve Wozniak on A&E Biography tonight Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3C4@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Steve Wozniak is profiled on A&E's Biography tonight. > > And my hands make their television debut, playing Steve > Wozniak's hands in a couple re-enactments. > > Now that my hands have achieved celebrity status, they are > available for other bookings, such as dinner speeches, Bar > Mitzvahs and bachelorette parties. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sam, Sam... ;-) So, how much for a likeness of Woz in corned beef? -dq From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 14 08:56:44 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: TI MicroProcessor Learning System ??? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001214095644.35a7c14e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Has anyone here ever seen one of these? Here's a picture from a TI bulletin, "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/a8/ti-mls.jpg". Joe From jwest at mppw.com Thu Dec 14 07:47:19 2000 From: jwest at mppw.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: mailing list issues Message-ID: Several folks have asked about a problem yesterday sending email to the list. Yesterday the server that hosts the list was moved from one building to another, and it's IP address changed. Silly me didn't realize that a drive that normally takes 20 minutes takes 2.5 hours during a snowstorm. Thus, that server was down for a good portion of the day. Some of you may still have sporadic problems emailing to the list until the ip address change is fully propagated through DNS, but all should be well for everyone shortly. Please let me know if you still have any problems with the list after today. Thanks, and sorry for the interruption! Jay West From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Dec 14 08:30:25 2000 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How about the pieces of the SAGE in 'Time Tunnel' (A US TV Show from the mid-sixties.) I know we had a thread on this some time back. Or was it a big Burroughs system? I forget. Sam will remind me. Cheerz John From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Dec 14 08:49:57 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3C5@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > How about the pieces of the SAGE in 'Time Tunnel' (A US TV > Show from the mid-sixties.) > > I know we had a thread on this some time back. > > Or was it a big Burroughs system? Ah, yes... I think Irwin Allen used that system on Time Tunnel as well as Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Lost in Space, and Land of the Giants. Wonder what became of it? -dq From agraham at ccat.co.uk Thu Dec 14 09:06:20 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: GS disks an' that. Message-ID: <00Dec14.150621gmt.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org] > Sent: 14 December 2000 02:08 > To: classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org > Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #455 > > > > classiccmp-digest Wednesday, December 13 2000 Volume > 01 : Number 455 > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 17:41:23 -0700 > Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:13:31 -0800 > From: "Henry Broekhuyse" > Subject: RE: G4IDE and ][GS disks (slightly off topic) > > If you don't have one already, get a 3.5" floppy drive for > your GS (even on > ebay these rarely cost more than $10). A Mac is able to read and write > ProDOS formatted 3.5" floppies, making this a convenient means of > transferring files. I'd kind of hoped the 800k external Mac drive could do that but it won't. > controller. If you must use a PC, the "easiest to implement" > method of file > transfer with an Apple II series computer is via a "null modem" serial > connection. Dammit :) I'd kind of hoped there was some Apple ][ flavour of a program like TransMac - read/write Mac disks on a PC. To get a null modem connection going though I need some sort of operating environment on the GS. Varying experiments with keypresses at powerup have got me into the control panel but that's about it. Is it possible to boot to BASIC? It must be since the ROM has Micro$oft written on it :) > Date: 14 Dec 00 00:26:28 +0100 > From: "Iggy Drougge" > Subject: RE: First personal computer nostalgia > > I'm sorry, but I feel it's nitpicking time... > I've never heard of an Atari 1050ST before, nor of a 1 MB > hard drive fitted to > an ST. OTOH, there is the Atari 1040ST, which had 1 MB of RAM. And you *could* get HDs for them too; can't remember their product designation OTTOMH but a swift look at the Atari Historical Society should tell you. Maybe it was a Falcon! > Date: 14 Dec 00 01:26:27 +0100 > From: "Iggy Drougge" > Subject: Re: amiga 500 > http://www.hardwarebook.net/ (everyone should have it > bookmarked) has got the > pinouts. Getting the D23 might be problematic, but I know > several sources > around here. > You'll get just about every 15KHz monitor to work, both > analogue and digital. > Possible models: Commodore 1081, 1084, 1085, 1940, 1942; Nec > Multisync II, 3D. I've got a spare Amiga -> CVBS cable if needs be...... adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum From agraham at ccat.co.uk Thu Dec 14 09:11:35 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) Message-ID: <00Dec14.151138gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Hi folks, I thought I had a great idea the other day. Since the number of NTSC machines in my collection is growing and my little NTSC portable isn't the best of things to look at (3" screen!) I thought I'd get a TV tuner card for my PC that would allow me to connect up my PAL machines and my NTSC machines. Amongst other things this would let me do screen grabs of uncommon machine boot screens and the like for the museum. Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live happily together in the same box? cheers adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Dec 14 10:44:02 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <200012140832.BAA01733@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Dec 14, 2000 01:32:03 am" Message-ID: <200012141644.IAA26306@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > I've heard that Haywood Floyds computer in 2010 is an apple 2 c with > the LCD screen attached. Don't remember it well enough to know for > sure. It is. It is also notable that in 2005 Haywood Floyd will invent a miracle cure for the yellowing of Apple //c cases, hence the pristine condition of the 25 year old computer seen in the movie. Rumor has it he subscribes to this list. Eric From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Dec 14 10:58:10 2000 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) In-Reply-To: <00Dec14.151138gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001214115044.009e4e10@mail.wincom.net> At 03:11 PM 12/14/2000 +0000, you wrote: >Hi folks, > >I thought I had a great idea the other day. Since the number of NTSC >machines in my collection is growing and my little NTSC portable isn't the >best of things to look at (3" screen!) I thought I'd get a TV tuner card for >my PC that would allow me to connect up my PAL machines and my NTSC >machines. Amongst other things this would let me do screen grabs of uncommon >machine boot screens and the like for the museum. > >Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does >BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live >happily together in the same box? > >cheers > >adrian/witchy >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum Looking through the manual for my ATI ALL-IN-WONDER PRO, it gives the impression that it works on both NTSC and Pal. While I haven't found any definite reference to Pal, it makes interesting little statements like " audio is monaural only in Europe", and "Closed captioning support, NTSC only." While mine works fine on NTSC, I haven't had occasion to try it on PAL. Regards Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: The Old Walkerville Virtual Museum at http://skyboom.com/foxvideo and Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Dec 14 11:20:43 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) In-Reply-To: <00Dec14.151138gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> from Adrian Graham at "Dec 14, 0 03:11:35 pm" Message-ID: <200012141720.JAA08020@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Hi folks, > > I thought I had a great idea the other day. Since the number of NTSC > machines in my collection is growing and my little NTSC portable isn't the > best of things to look at (3" screen!) I thought I'd get a TV tuner card for > my PC that would allow me to connect up my PAL machines and my NTSC > machines. Amongst other things this would let me do screen grabs of uncommon > machine boot screens and the like for the museum. > > Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does > BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live > happily together in the same box? You probably have a PeeCee, but I bought a Formac PCI tuner card for my PowerMac. After I had a mild brain fart getting the RF input set up, it works great in both PAL and NTSC. Outpost sells it for about $125, and it comes with decent TV/vidcap software *and* Adobe Premiere 5.1 LE. I take vid and frame grabs from the C128 all the time with it now. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If everyone is abnormal, then no one is. ----------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Dec 14 11:35:53 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <200012140832.BAA01733@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Dec 14, 0 01:32:03 am" Message-ID: <200012141735.JAA07694@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > > > >Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink > > > >AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success > > > >IMSAI -Wargames > > > >HP-150 -Real Genius > > > >GE Differential Analyzer (UCLA) -When Worlds Collide > > > >Thinking Machines CM-5 -Jurrasic Park > > > >Memotech FDX500 or MTX512 -Weird Science > > > >Mac Plus -Star Trek IV > > > >VAX 11/750 with IBM 3290 plasma display panels -some independant film (?) And isn't there a C64 in one of the Police Academy movies? I think it's in #6. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- In memory of Commodore Business Machines (1954-1994) ----------------------- From bills at adrenaline.com Thu Dec 14 12:11:45 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (bills) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) In-Reply-To: <00Dec14.151138gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: > Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does > BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live > happily together in the same box? One thing I have discovered... For whatever reason, the two TV cards I have tried will not sync to Ohio Scientific boxes. I have several composite monitors that will, as well as two TV sets with composite in. I also tried a Radio Shack RF modulator box with about the same results. Bill From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 14 11:56:55 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: Question about Delphi Message-ID: Does anyone know what mainframes the online service Delphi ran on? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Dec 14 13:06:44 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: GS disks an' that. In-Reply-To: <00Dec14.150621gmt.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> from "Adrian Graham" at Dec 14, 2000 03:06:20 PM Message-ID: <200012141906.MAA03630@calico.litterbox.com> > Dammit :) I'd kind of hoped there was some Apple ][ flavour of a program > like TransMac - read/write Mac disks on a PC. To get a null modem connection > going though I need some sort of operating environment on the GS. Varying > experiments with keypresses at powerup have got me into the control panel > but that's about it. Is it possible to boot to BASIC? It must be since the > ROM has Micro$oft written on it :) The easiest (and IMHO best) solution to this problem is to go to www.allelec.com and for $69 purchase the focusdrive IIgs, which has system 6.0.1 already on it. These drives are great. You'll need at least a 4 mb memory expander to run it though. Alternately, if you go to http://www.byteworks.org/APDA/system.htm you can buy the system disks directly. If you need the 4 meg expansion board or any other accessories do please let me know, I have a GS that's been dropped that I'm parting out. Unfortunately I already swiped its SCSI interface and disk for my apple 2e, so I don't have a hard disk to sell. I have (if memory serves) a 4mb expansion card, printer card, and a few floppy drives, as well as a GS that may or may not work. > I've got a spare Amiga -> CVBS cable if needs be...... What does this do? Perhaps we could trade amiga hardware for GS hardware? -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Dec 14 13:21:00 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:39 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) In-Reply-To: <00Dec14.151138gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <20001214191210.WCLU13851.femail3.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> My friend Mark of Skyforward Productions uses a Mirrovideo dc30 series card that does both video standards. I think it might also do PAL/M and Secam. You will have to research the newer-model cards as his is no longer made. I forwarded your message to Mark. If he has been drooling over any specs, he'll let you know. Regards, Jeff In <00Dec14.151138gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk>, on 12/14/00 at 02:21 PM, Adrian Graham said: >Hi folks, >I thought I had a great idea the other day. Since the number of NTSC >machines in my collection is growing and my little NTSC portable isn't >the best of things to look at (3" screen!) I thought I'd get a TV tuner >card for my PC that would allow me to connect up my PAL machines and my >NTSC machines. Amongst other things this would let me do screen grabs of >uncommon machine boot screens and the like for the museum. >Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does >BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live >happily together in the same box? >cheers >adrian/witchy >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Dec 14 13:20:22 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Question about Delphi In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Dec 14, 2000 09:56:55 AM Message-ID: <200012141920.MAA03695@calico.litterbox.com> Runs. Delphi is still out there. I heard somewhere it ran on Vaxen until recently but I wouldn't elevate that fact beyond the rumor level. Delphi is at www.delphi.com and subscription for a web only account is free, perhaps one of the folk there can answer your question. > > > Does anyone know what mainframes the online service Delphi ran on? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 14 13:19:13 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: VAX questions, memory In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001213191944.00a38030@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >I finally got my hands on a VAX 4000/90 (yipee!) and it now takes its place >as my fastest VAX. It has 32MB of memory (8 x 4MB modules) and I was >wondering if, because it looks a lot like a VAX 4000/60 if I could use >memory modules from a 4000/60 in the 4000/90. Also since I've only got 4 >16MB modules, can I mix 4MB and 16MB modules? > >--Chuck The answer would be that you can use /60 memory in a /90. HOWEVER, you have to add memory to the /90 in sets of 4, while the /60 only requires sets of 2. The other problem is the memory has to go in a special order, you'll need to look really closely at the Motherboard in order to see how they go (it's not easy to see the markings). BTW, it's cheaper to buy a /60 to get RAM than to go out and get RAM. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 14 12:16:30 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <200012141644.IAA26306@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > It is. It is also notable that in 2005 Haywood Floyd will invent a > miracle cure for the yellowing of Apple //c cases, hence the pristine > condition of the 25 year old computer seen in the movie. Rumor has it > he subscribes to this list. Apple //c cases only yellow if left in unfriendly environments, such as direct sunlight. I have many //c's that are still as white as when they came out of the box. And by 2005 they will only be 21 years old :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 14 13:42:41 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) References: Message-ID: <003901c06606$0615c1e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> The problem may lie in that the Ohio Scientific boxes, though their output works fine on NTSC monitors, isn't interlaced. Do you suppose that might be the problem? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "bills" To: Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 11:11 AM Subject: RE: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) > > Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does > > BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live > > happily together in the same box? > > One thing I have discovered... For whatever reason, the two TV cards I > have tried will not sync to Ohio Scientific boxes. I have several > composite monitors that will, as well as two TV sets with composite in. > I also tried a Radio Shack RF modulator box with about the same results. > > Bill > > From doug at blinkenlights.com Thu Dec 14 12:37:15 2000 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Question about Delphi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does a VAX count as a mainframe? They were running VMS fully visibile to the end-user back when I had a test account circa '94 or so. On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Does anyone know what mainframes the online service Delphi ran on? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > From elvey at hal.com Thu Dec 14 14:08:05 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200012142008.MAA21522@civic.hal.com> Hi Sam I just saw the coolest storage media. It was a 1 gig hard drive that was about 1 square inch and about 1/8 inch thick. It was still expensive but these would make great compact data storage when the prices come down to level. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 14 14:10:59 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: <3355.383T2600T425837optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Dec 14, 0 06:23:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3386 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001214/de95083b/attachment.ksh From bills at adrenaline.com Thu Dec 14 14:27:08 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) In-Reply-To: <003901c06606$0615c1e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: > > One thing I have discovered... For whatever reason, the two TV cards I > > have tried will not sync to Ohio Scientific boxes. I have several > > composite monitors that will, as well as two TV sets with composite in. > > I also tried a Radio Shack RF modulator box with about the same results. > > The problem may lie in that the Ohio Scientific boxes, though their output > works fine on NTSC monitors, isn't interlaced. Do you suppose > that might be the problem? Hmmm... how would I check this? From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 14 13:28:03 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) In-Reply-To: <00Dec14.151138gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: >Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does >BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live >happily together in the same box? Well.... My PowerMac 8500/180 came with that capability builtin :^) I don't know if other A/V Mac's have this capability or not. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ncherry at home.net Thu Dec 14 14:30:03 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Question about Delphi References: Message-ID: <3A392DCB.1C4DCAD0@home.net> Doug Salot wrote: > > Does a VAX count as a mainframe? They were running VMS fully visibile to > the end-user back when I had a test account circa '94 or so. > > On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > > > > Does anyone know what mainframes the online service Delphi ran on? > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > Most VAX are mini's (at least in my Opinion). I'm not sure exactly what decides that a machine is a Main frame, a mini and a micro (yes I know most desktops are micro's). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Thu Dec 14 14:35:02 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: <200012142008.MAA21522@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <000001c0660d$56a6bdb0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> > I just saw the coolest storage media. It was a 1 gig > hard drive that was about 1 square inch and about 1/8 (Way OT) The amazing thing is that I don't think any PDA's currently support it. (DigiCams, CompactFlash,Do.) I go around spouting this sometimes: "IBM used to send out its salesmen with little 1/24 models of their Mainframe installations to do site planning on the desktop first before bringing in the actual HW. With Moore's Law and the progress of miniaturization, you could Build a system that big now that actually works." Only with more power. John A. P.S. That microdisk is an IBM product . From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Dec 14 14:44:10 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <200012141735.JAA07694@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200012140832.BAA01733@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001214124351.02c03960@208.226.86.10> PDP-8 in 3 days of the condor At 09:35 AM 12/14/00 -0800, you wrote: > > > > > > > >Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink > > > > >AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success > > > > >IMSAI -Wargames > > > > >HP-150 -Real Genius > > > > >GE Differential Analyzer (UCLA) -When Worlds Collide > > > > >Thinking Machines CM-5 -Jurrasic Park > > > > >Memotech FDX500 or MTX512 -Weird Science > > > > >Mac Plus -Star Trek IV > > > > >VAX 11/750 with IBM 3290 plasma display panels -some independant > film (?) > >And isn't there a C64 in one of the Police Academy movies? I think it's in #6. > >-- >----------------------------- personal page: >http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu >-- In memory of Commodore Business Machines (1954-1994) >----------------------- From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Dec 14 14:40:53 2000 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (Correction) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.0.20001214115044.009e4e10@mail.wincom.net> References: <00Dec14.151138gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.0.20001214153800.009e3eb0@mail.wincom.net> > > Looking through the manual for my ATI ALL-IN-WONDER PRO, it > gives the impression that it works on both NTSC and Pal. While I haven't > found any definite reference to Pal, it makes interesting little > statements like " audio is monaural only in Europe", and >"Closed captioning support, NTSC only." While mine works fine on NTSC, I >haven't had occasion to try it on PAL. Sorry, I found the box the ATI board came in and it is labeled TV input NTSC only. They must use the same manual for several formats. > Regards > > Charlie Fox > Chas E. Fox Video Productions > 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 > foxvideo@wincom.net > Check out: > The Old Walkerville Virtual Museum at http://skyboom.com/foxvideo > and Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: The Old Walkerville Virtual Museum at http://skyboom.com/foxvideo and Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From ncherry at home.net Thu Dec 14 14:44:29 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Z80 SIO programming Message-ID: <3A39312D.A73500A3@home.net> I've been unable to find a programing manual for the Z80 SIO. Does anyone have a link for it, the PIO and CTC? I'm begining to think the search engines are broken. I've been finding a lot less on the 'net lately. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Dec 14 14:52:07 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: <200012142008.MAA21522@civic.hal.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001214124749.02b31b70@208.226.86.10> At 12:08 PM 12/14/00 -0800, Dwight wrote: > I just saw the coolest storage media. It was a 1 gig >hard drive that was about 1 square inch and about 1/8 >inch thick. That would be the IBM Microdrive. Used to come in 340 and 540 MB sizes, now available in 1GB. We're almost to the point where we can build a 1/20" scale model of a DEC-2065 that actually runs tops-20 :-) However, as many digital camera owners have discovered, there is a reliability issue with these drives. It seems that they are susceptible to damage if their angular velocity exceeds a certain amount when they are spinning. This appears at first glance to be due to the platters warping due to precession. The platter(s) then contact the heads and when you hit the servo heads it gets a bit messy. Reading about this problem gave me the idea of building an inertial navigation system out of dead IDE drives :-) --Chuck From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Thu Dec 14 15:01:35 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3C5@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <000101c06611$0d547590$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> I thought maybe Irwin Allen had a Sage-Alike system constructed on his own (bigger, brighter lights). It may have been a said on the list in the earlier thread that the Sage debuted(sp) in "Desk Set" and came back in "Dear Bridgett" and then later in "What a Way to Go". I think if it was a Sage that IBM may have cut off some of the less interesting pieces, and left the lights. The fact that it was the same panel came across to me in that it lit up to say "The End" at the end of Desk Set and in one of the later movies thay hadn't moved the light connections around enough so you could still sorta make out the words. John A. P.S. I found out later that the fictitious "Collossus" actually looked something like the actual RCA BizMAC, IE cabinets stepped and repeated off into the horizon. From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 14 15:07:36 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Way OT: storage media In-Reply-To: <000001c0660d$56a6bdb0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: > > I just saw the coolest storage media. It was a 1 gig > > hard drive that was about 1 square inch and about 1/8 On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, John Allain wrote: > (Way OT) > The amazing thing is that I don't think any PDA's > currently support it. (DigiCams, CompactFlash,Do.) > P.S. That microdisk is an IBM product . I've seen a Pocket Pc using it for holding movies! > I go around spouting this sometimes: > "IBM used to send out its salesmen with little 1/24 > models of their Mainframe installations to do site > planning on the desktop first before bringing in the > actual HW. With Moore's Law and the progress of > miniaturization, you could Build a system that big > now that actually works." > Only with more power. You might want to consider not minitaurizing the keyboards and display quite that much. And punch cards that size would be difficult to handle. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 14 15:09:37 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Z80 SIO programming References: <3A39312D.A73500A3@home.net> Message-ID: <000901c06612$2aa3db80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> IIRC, it was on the Zilog web site last month or so. It's not called a Z-80 SIO as the title of the sheet, though the equivalent Z84Cxx number is used. If found the MOSTEK databook helpful in translating this stuff. Z84C40 ought to be pretty close. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Cherry" To: "classic" Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 1:44 PM Subject: Z80 SIO programming > I've been unable to find a programing manual for the Z80 SIO. Does anyone > have a link for it, the PIO and CTC? I'm begining to think the search > engines are broken. I've been finding a lot less on the 'net lately. > > -- > Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net > http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) > http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) > http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 14 15:13:14 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: storage media References: <200012142008.MAA21522@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <001701c06612$abfcf4a0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> based on cost and size, it's probably more efficient to use a full-sized 40GB drive. By the time you include hardware to mount it in the same volume, you break about even, methinks. Of course the little guys cost more. These'll be pretty handy once the capacity goes up some. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dwight Elvey" To: Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 1:08 PM Subject: storage media > Hi Sam > I just saw the coolest storage media. It was a 1 gig > hard drive that was about 1 square inch and about 1/8 > inch thick. It was still expensive but these would make > great compact data storage when the prices come down > to level. > Dwight > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 14 15:20:49 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Question about Delphi In-Reply-To: Re: Question about Delphi (Neil Cherry) References: <3A392DCB.1C4DCAD0@home.net> Message-ID: <14905.14769.611797.740833@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 14, Neil Cherry wrote: > Most VAX are mini's (at least in my Opinion). I'm not sure exactly what > decides that a machine is a Main frame, a mini and a micro (yes I know > most desktops are micro's). I don't know what the specific popular definitions or dividing lines are, but by DEC's own opinions, all VAXen are minis except the VAX9000, which they called a mainframe. -Dave McGuire From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Dec 14 15:21:27 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) In-Reply-To: <00Dec14.151138gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> References: <00Dec14.151138gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: >Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does >BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live >happily together in the same box? For an older PC using PCI slots for the video card, the Real 3D Starfighter had a version that had both inputs and outputs that could work with both PAL and NTSC. It's a 3D card based on the i860 and it has 16meg of RAM onboard. I used to see these on eBay quite a bit. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Dec 14 15:37:20 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3C9@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > It may have been a said on the list in the > earlier thread that the Sage debuted(sp) in > "Desk Set" and came back in "Dear Bridgett" > and then later in "What a Way to Go". Was "Desk Set" the Tracy-Hepburn film with him as an efficiency expert, to her girl-from- small-town-working-in-the-big-city? I also recall a late 60s/early 70s film, that I think starred Patrick McGoohan, with him playing a mathematician/codebreaking expert, who employed a large number of beautiful women who actually did the codebusting; but they used a computer to check the results. I think we saw a shot of the computer, but I wasn't kind to my memory organ back in those days... ring any bells? -dq From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Dec 14 16:00:26 2000 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001214124351.02c03960@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > PDP-8 in 3 days of the condor Which model PDP-8? B^} -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 14 16:14:42 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: RE: Vintage computers in movies (Ernest) References: <3A383619.6A5F1E3B@home.com> Message-ID: <14905.18002.52624.454097@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 13, Ernest wrote: > >Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink > >AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success > >IMSAI -Wargames > >HP-150 -Real Genius > >GE Differential Analyzer (UCLA) -When Worlds Collide > >Thinking Machines CM-5 -Jurrasic Park > >Memotech FDX500 or MTX512 -Weird Science > >Mac Plus -Star Trek IV > >VAX 11/750 with IBM 3290 plasma display panels -some independant film (?) > > It's kind of cool to be able to spot a vintage computer that you recognize > in a movie. I never noticed the computers in "Secret to my Success" until I > found a AT&T 6300, and then the computers on the desks might as well of had > flashing red lights on them. "Hey! I've got one of those." Wait a minute...Wasn't it a 7300, not a 6300, in the "Secret of my Success"? -Dave McGuire From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 14 16:17:09 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: RJ21 to AppleTalk? In-Reply-To: <00Dec14.150621gmt.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: As I mentioned in the G4 to IIgs thread, I have a bunch of networking and bridge devices and software. Lots of it I don't know how to use, some of it is downright pesky in how time has treated it. Farallon. Sheesh, great stuff, key pieces uniformly missing. Farallon, otherwise one of the BEST companies for support, split into Netopia and Farallon, and orphaned all the old stuff. I have some StarRouters, powerfull ethernet to Appletalk boxes, but even the stuff I have purchased new in the box expects parts that appear no longer to exist. For example the AppleTalk side of the box is a Phone style RJ21 (looks just like a Centronics 50 to me). I have ONE RJ21 to snake of RJ11 PhoneNets, but thats about the only device I have EVER even put my hands on. Ebay has a couple items, a RJ11 patchbay (no RJ21 cable), and a RJ21 to punchdown block (with a large reserve to cover the "value" of the punchdown block). Pinout is trivial, each side of the RJ21 makes a PhoneNet pair, with one pair terminated. Unfortunately, devices and cables routinely get separated when the stuff gets scraped. Makes me wonder how I would like to proceed, I mean LocalTalk/Phonenet isn't exactly a real hotbed of activity, and I do have alternate solutions (ie FastPath), but I REALLY hate to see this good product shuffled off due to support issues. Anybody that has Farallon stuff or knowledge, I would like to chat with before I just give up on it. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 14 15:59:58 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: GS disks an' that. In-Reply-To: <00Dec14.150621gmt.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: I know serveral FAQs talk about data transfer to Apple II type systems from various other systems, but this is just complex enough it really does deserve a GOOD complete writeup someplace. The trouble is that much of the "action" now is diverse, PC or Mac emulation, Apple II vs IIe vs IIgs, and the solutions are different. How can you get from a G4 to a IIgs? Floppy, easy put a 3.5" 1.4MB compatible floppy on each system. Serial, make one of the funky Serial null/modem type cables. Network, setup an Ethernet to PhoneNet bridge. This is my choice, since in the long run it is usefull for a variety of devices and its fast. PhoneNet plugs right into a IIgs, and supports AppleTalk and MacTcp (something like that, that means TCP/IP packets get encapsulated in AppleTalk), and serveral "boxes" and old macs running software work fine as bridges. A FastPath 4 "looks" like the best solution to me right now, but I am still very seriously in the learning stage and buying anything I see that looks curious. This also means I have a lot of stuff for sale too, but I'm not real organized right now, so email me directly for stuff. (see related RJ21 post) From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Dec 14 16:36:24 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx and IEEE-488 interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I was checking out some Mac IIfx machines today and they had what appeared to be boards with a single IEEE-488 connector on them. To the best of my knowledge, all the machines were used as graphics workstations. I've never seen that interface on a Mac before though...any ideas what it might have been used for? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From kapteynr at cboe.com Thu Dec 14 16:39:37 2000 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B148BC@msx1.cboe.com> Hi all: I have an old "Fortune Systems 32:16", circa 1983. This was a great little 68000 based unix box which I used to rent out to a skeptical former employer who was wasting ridiculous amounts of money on mainframe time. (It paid itself back several times) Anyone else out there have an interest in these ? Despite the fact that unix is never really out of date, there are three things that make this box a dinosaur: (1) It lacks any sort of networking beyond its serial port (2) It requires specially formatted 800K, 5-1/4 floppies (3) The bus looks like the original IBM PC bus, but it is not. I wish I had some specs on it. Rob Kapteyn kapteynr@cboe.com From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 14 16:40:18 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx and IEEE-488 interface In-Reply-To: Mac IIfx and IEEE-488 interface (Jeff Hellige) References: Message-ID: <14905.19538.397269.715778@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 14, Jeff Hellige wrote: > I was checking out some Mac IIfx machines today and they had > what appeared to be boards with a single IEEE-488 connector on them. > To the best of my knowledge, all the machines were used as graphics > workstations. I've never seen that interface on a Mac before > though...any ideas what it might have been used for? Well, National Instruments does make a few NuBus IEEE-488 cards...crack open one of the machines and see who made it. If memory serves, though, they also made a card that *looks* like an IEEE interface but isn't. I've never actually seen one of those, but I have several of the real IEEE-488 NuBus boards. -Dave McGuire From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 14 15:32:29 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) References: Message-ID: <000001c0661f$2f1e2d20$1192fea9@idcomm.com> The easiest way to deal with it is to hook a 'scope to the vertical sync line, triggering on it and see if you get a stabile sync on the second channel hooked to horizontal sync. if it does look stabile, it's not interlacing. with interlace (at 30 Hz) every other field is off by half a horizontal period. It should be pretty apparent, since the display is difficult to view at that low frequency anyway. If the relation between vertical-sync and horizontal sync is rock-solid, as I recall it was on most video displays of the '80's, it's because they didn't interlace. If you've only got a single trace 'scope, then you just have to look a the period of the vsync with your trigger set to the vertical sync and displaying two such pulses. The period will not be precisely half what it is for two cycles as defined in Hsync periods. The period should be 262.5 hsync periods if it's interlacing. Normally it was on the order of 512 on the typical video display circuit, only because it was easy to generate. In some cases it's as long as 640 or even 768, with a long blanking window. If you trigger on hsync and can't get a stabile display of the vsync it's probably interlaced. If you trigger on vsync and can't get a stabile display of hsync, then, likewise, it's because the hsync is half-a-cycle off the verical rate, which means they're interlacing. The easiest way is to look at a schematic. Also, if the display is something line 16 lines of 64 characters, e.g. TRS-80, or Digital Group, then it's likely it's not interlaced. If it's something like a 640 (or 512) x 384 (or 512) raster, it's likely to be interlaced. The bandwidth of most monitors from the Ohio Scientific days interlaced only when there were large numbers off pixels. Those couldn't be displayed on low-cost displays without interlace because of the requirement for high ( > 10 MHz) bandwidth from the video amps. Remember that a non-interlaced and non-flickering display required a 60 Hz frame rate with the typical (P4?) phosphor of the time. Interlace does flicker somewhat. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Sudbrink" To: Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 1:27 PM Subject: RE: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) > > > One thing I have discovered... For whatever reason, the two TV cards I > > > have tried will not sync to Ohio Scientific boxes. I have several > > > composite monitors that will, as well as two TV sets with composite in. > > > I also tried a Radio Shack RF modulator box with about the same results. > > > > The problem may lie in that the Ohio Scientific boxes, though their output > > works fine on NTSC monitors, isn't interlaced. Do you suppose > > that might be the problem? > > Hmmm... how would I check this? > > From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 14 16:46:11 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? In-Reply-To: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? (Rob Kapteyn) References: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B148BC@msx1.cboe.com> Message-ID: <14905.19891.154006.281053@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 14, Rob Kapteyn wrote: > I have an old "Fortune Systems 32:16", circa 1983. Wow, I seem to remember ads in BYTE Magazine for those machines. I've never actually seen one in person. If they were more common I'd love to get my hands on one. -Dave McGuire From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Dec 14 14:48:04 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: More VAX questions (RZ28 jumpers) Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001214143803.01962d48@208.226.86.129> Ok, thanks to Zane and Mitch I got my memory installed (and it _is_ really weird how one must order the simms. I now have from "back" to "front" : 16M, 4M, 16M, 4M, 4M, 16M, 4M, 16M for a total of 80M. This makes for a nice tasty VAX! Now I'm installing some hard drives in it (it didn't have any) and I've got an "H" block with an RZ28 and an RZ26 for it. Since I want this machine to be "dual boot" :-) I need to jumper the hard drives to spin up on power up. The RZ26 was easy since it had a jumper legend on the top of the drive but the RZ28 I've been guessing. And by trying several options (moving the jumper and powering up the drive) I've finally moved it to jumper #4 from the right. If anyone knows if this is the correct jumper (or incorrect jumper) for sure, let me know please! --Chuck From dlw at trailingedge.com Thu Dec 14 16:55:07 2000 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? In-Reply-To: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B148BC@msx1.cboe.com> Message-ID: <3A38FB6B.19777.19B22BF@localhost> Hi, I've always been interested in them. I was hired back in the early 80s to pick a multi-user system for a business and that was one of the boxs we looked at. I have 2 of them and a third in parts along with some doc but don't have the special terminal to work with it. Thus I have never been able to bring them up. They seem to need some special key when trying to access these and I have no idea what sequence it sends so I could mimic it on another terminal. One day I plan on scanning the doc but haven't had the time. But since I've dropped one side job recently maybe now I'll have more time for my collection. David ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat You can learn to like the life you live or live the life you like. dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From kees.stravers at iae.nl Thu Dec 14 16:59:42 2000 From: kees.stravers at iae.nl (kees.stravers@iae.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (Correction) Message-ID: <20001214225942.816AC20FA5@mail.iae.nl> On 2000-12-14 classiccmp@classiccmp.org said to kees.stravers@iae.nl >> Looking through the manual for my ATI ALL-IN-WONDER PRO, >>it gives the impression that it works on both NTSC and Pal. >Sorry, I found the box the ATI board came in and it is labeled TV >input NTSC only. The Matrox Marvel G400-TV can record and playback in both PAL and NTSC. Kees. -- Kees Stravers - Geldrop, The Netherlands - kees.stravers@iae.nl http://www.iae.nl/users/pb0aia/ My home page (old computers,music,photography) http://www.vaxarchive.org/ Info on old DEC VAX computers Net-Tamer V 1.08.1 - Registered From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 14 16:06:11 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: <200012142008.MAA21522@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Dwight Elvey wrote: > I just saw the coolest storage media. It was a 1 gig > hard drive that was about 1 square inch and about 1/8 > inch thick. It was still expensive but these would make > great compact data storage when the prices come down > to level. Holy shit. That's amazing. I wonder, given the size, if these are less prone to physical crashes than larger drives are? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 14 16:16:19 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: RJ21 to AppleTalk? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > I have ONE RJ21 to snake of RJ11 PhoneNets, but thats about the only device > I have EVER even put my hands on. Ebay has a couple items, a RJ11 patchbay > (no RJ21 cable), and a RJ21 to punchdown block (with a large reserve to > cover the "value" of the punchdown block). Pinout is trivial, each side of > the RJ21 makes a PhoneNet pair, with one pair terminated. There's a local electronics surplus shop brimming with Farallon PhoneNet stuff. I'll find out what it is and let you know, and if it's something you can use I'll pick it up for you. These are new in the original packaging. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mbg at world.std.com Thu Dec 14 17:51:39 2000 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: storage media Message-ID: <200012142351.SAA03058@world.std.com> >"IBM used to send out its salesmen with little 1/24 > models of their Mainframe installations to do site > planning on the desktop first before bringing in the > actual HW. With Moore's Law and the progress of > miniaturization, you could Build a system that big > now that actually works." > >Only with more power. Imagine putting together a little model of, say, the PDP-10 system on the back cover of one of the PDP-10 reference manuals, but build an imbedded x86 machine into the model, with one serial line... run linux on the the embedded machine and Timothy Stark's pdp-10 emulator running TOPS-10... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Thu Dec 14 17:56:12 2000 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies Message-ID: <200012142356.SAA06198@world.std.com> >> PDP-8 in 3 days of the condor > > Which model PDP-8? B^} I'll have to watch it again to find out... I've forgotten. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Dec 14 18:02:08 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Question about Delphi Message-ID: <00a401c0662b$faa0c140$5c759a8d@ajp166> VAX running VMS. -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival To: Classic Computers Mailing List Date: Thursday, December 14, 2000 2:28 PM Subject: Question about Delphi > >Does anyone know what mainframes the online service Delphi ran on? > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Dec 14 18:07:26 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Question about Delphi Message-ID: <00a501c0662c$143c1550$5c759a8d@ajp166> From: Neil Cherry >Most VAX are mini's (at least in my Opinion). I'm not sure exactly what >decides that a machine is a Main frame, a mini and a micro (yes I know >most desktops are micro's). A MicrovaxII in a BA32 is a mini. I VAX6440 is a super mini. VAX9000 certainly qualifies as MAINFRAME. The '80s blurred mini/mainframe and VAX and AS400 type machines were doing their best to foster that. The VAX (11/780!) was originally called a superminicomputer. Then again a 8250 with a disk farm was anything but mini. Allison From broekh at interchange.ubc.ca Thu Dec 14 18:57:27 2000 From: broekh at interchange.ubc.ca (Henry Broekhuyse) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: GS disks an' that. In-Reply-To: <200012141906.MAA03630@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <000301c06631$fe6c1260$0200a8c0@thinkpad> > The easiest (and IMHO best) solution to this problem is to go to > www.allelec.com > and for $69 purchase the focusdrive IIgs, which has system 6.0.1 already > on it. These drives are great. You'll need at least a 4 mb > memory expander to run it though. The original posting on this topic was from someone with an original "Woz" GS. Many "Woz" GSs were of the "ROM 00" type (the later versions were ROM 01 and ROM 03). Apparently all versions of GS/OS require a minimum version of ROM 01. The FAQ collection for the Apple II series of computers is among the most extensive available for any "vintage" system - there are over twenty individual text files making up the full FAQ list. Among other things, it contains a thorough discussion of the various methods of transferring files to and from any Apple II series computer, right down to the "how to" instructions. An updated version of the full FAQ list "appears" on comp.sys.apple2 around the beginning of every month. From markp at wccls.lib.or.us Thu Dec 14 18:58:16 2000 From: markp at wccls.lib.or.us (Mark Price) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Ernest [mailto:ernestls@home.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 10:47 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Vintage computers in movies >Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink >AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success >IMSAI -Wargames >HP-150 -Real Genius >GE Differential Analyzer (UCLA) -When Worlds Collide >Thinking Machines CM-5 -Jurrasic Park >Memotech FDX500 or MTX512 -Weird Science >Mac Plus -Star Trek IV >VAX 11/750 with IBM 3290 plasma display panels -some independant film (?) IBM XT or AT -Stand by Me (1986) Richard Dreyfuss is the grown-up writer whose coming-of-age story we see portrayed in the film. At the end, he's sitting there at his XT or AT (I haven't seen it in a while) and regards with satisfaction the novel he's just finished writing on his amazing menu-free, rulerless word processor. His kids are calling him, so he reaches up and--oh, no--shuts off the computer?? Aacckk!! YOU DIDN'T SAVE YOUR WORK, RICHARD! But maybe he was just shutting off the monitor to avoid screen-burn. Yeah, that's it. (I squirm every time I see that scene.) And does this one count? In This Island Earth (1954), made great fun of in Mystery Science Theater 3000: The Movie (1996), Dr. Jeff Meachum gets a computer kit from the planet Metaluna. Like most computer kits, this one takes him and his PhD. buddy utilizing an entire university physics lab just to get it put together, BUT they end up with an "Interocetor," I believe it was called, a very cool mini that ran on a single glass bead and was controlled by a single colorful plastic wheel. It featured a large triangular monitor and--a heat ray! (Much more effective than a screen-saver at keeping gawkers from looking at your work.) Apparently, not many Interocetor kits were sold in the U.S. because for one thing Metaluna was soon destroyed in an interstellar war before they could open any plants in Mexico, and for another, there's nobody bumming Interocetor documentation on this list. Too bad, the monitor heat ray could be very handy. I have a flickering Vivitron at home that feels like it fries my retina, but it's just not the same... ============================== Mark Price, Library Computer Specialist Washington County Cooperative Library Services e-mail: markp@wccls.lib.or.us voice: 503-846-3230 fax: 503-846-3220 From markp at wccls.lib.or.us Thu Dec 14 19:10:32 2000 From: markp at wccls.lib.or.us (Mark Price) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: First personal computer nostalgia Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Iggy Drougge [mailto:optimus@canit.se] Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 3:26 PM To: Mark Price Subject: RE: First personal computer nostalgia [snip!] >I'm sorry, but I feel it's nitpicking time... >I've never heard of an Atari 1050ST before, nor of a 1 MB hard drive fitted to >an ST. OTOH, there is the Atari 1040ST, which had 1 MB of RAM. You are correct, sir. My 5 should've been a 4. Nit well picked. ============================== Mark Price, Library Computer Specialist Washington County Cooperative Library Services e-mail: markp@wccls.lib.or.us voice: 503-846-3230 fax: 503-846-3220 From broekh at interchange.ubc.ca Thu Dec 14 19:17:38 2000 From: broekh at interchange.ubc.ca (Henry Broekhuyse) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: RJ21 to AppleTalk? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c06634$d0221140$0200a8c0@thinkpad> On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > I have ONE RJ21 to snake of RJ11 PhoneNets, but thats about the > only device > I have EVER even put my hands on. Ebay has a couple items, a RJ11 patchbay > (no RJ21 cable), and a RJ21 to punchdown block (with a large reserve to > cover the "value" of the punchdown block). Pinout is trivial, each side of > the RJ21 makes a PhoneNet pair, with one pair terminated. > > Unfortunately, devices and cables routinely get separated when the stuff > gets scraped. Makes me wonder how I would like to proceed, I mean > LocalTalk/Phonenet isn't exactly a real hotbed of activity, and I do have > alternate solutions (ie FastPath), but I REALLY hate to see this good > product shuffled off due to support issues. Anybody that has > Farallon stuff > or knowledge, I would like to chat with before I just give up on it. There is still a fair bit of information about this equipment on Farallon's web site. As you probably realize, one has to consider that only a very large Localtalk network warrants the trouble of setting up a StarController and its associated cabling. My office still has a "decommissioned" one, which hasn't seen service since we switched to using ethernet. From kapteynr at cboe.com Thu Dec 14 19:23:56 2000 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B148BD@msx1.cboe.com> Hi: I retired mine when the Miniscribe 10MB hard drive gave too many errors to be useful. But otherwise, I have everything complete with manuals and disks. The only "extras" I ever got were some extra Unix utilities and a Fortran compiler. The "special terminal" is actually just a low-resolution monochrome monitor connected with an RJ-45 type connector. (Character based, no graphics) The keyboard plugs into a similar connector on the front. Later models had a keyswitch, mine does not. Fortune made very nice stuff at an acceptable price for their day, but they crippled everything by making it non-standard to try to control their market. If you wanted a cheap computer to do Fortran programming, like I did, the only competition was the original IBM PC, which was brand new back then. The fact that the Fortune ran Unix made me choose the Fortune. I have no time for my collection either, but with an economic recession on the way, I might soon find myself with lots of spare time :-) In your "parts" machine, you wouldn't happen to have an ethernet card, would you ? I know that they sold them, but they were too expensive for me back then. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: David Williams [SMTP:dlw@trailingedge.com] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 4:55 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? Hi, I've always been interested in them. I was hired back in the early 80s to pick a multi-user system for a business and that was one of the boxs we looked at. I have 2 of them and a third in parts along with some doc but don't have the special terminal to work with it. Thus I have never been able to bring them up. They seem to need some special key when trying to access these and I have no idea what sequence it sends so I could mimic it on another terminal. One day I plan on scanning the doc but haven't had the time. But since I've dropped one side job recently maybe now I'll have more time for my collection. David ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat You can learn to like the life you live or live the life you like. dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Dec 14 11:32:53 2000 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: GS disks an' that. References: <00Dec14.150621gmt.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <3A39043F.EA023FD2@eoni.com> WHile we're on the subject of GS's... The local thrift store has a complete IIgs system (CPU, monitor, external 3.5" drive, Imagewriter II, cables, power supplies, software) that they're asking $25 for. Anyone interested? Claim that it fires up just fine. (shipping would be from 97883) I didn't look through the s/w, but there's a stack of documentation a foot high. Jim From whdawson at mlynk.com Thu Dec 14 19:34:30 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <200012142356.SAA06198@world.std.com> Message-ID: <000201c06637$2b9085a0$b19e72d1@cobweb.net> -> > Which model PDP-8? B^} Uh, isn't that anal-retentive? d8^) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 14 19:28:51 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx and IEEE-488 interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > I was checking out some Mac IIfx machines today and they had >what appeared to be boards with a single IEEE-488 connector on them. >To the best of my knowledge, all the machines were used as graphics >workstations. I've never seen that interface on a Mac before >though...any ideas what it might have been used for? I've seen at least one high end Kodak photo printer that used a 488 interface with a Mac, but this is a heck of a guessing game compared to just firing up the mac and running something like TattleTech that reads the rom on the cards. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 14 19:36:57 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: RJ21 to AppleTalk? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > >> I have ONE RJ21 to snake of RJ11 PhoneNets, but thats about the only device >> I have EVER even put my hands on. Ebay has a couple items, a RJ11 patchbay >> (no RJ21 cable), and a RJ21 to punchdown block (with a large reserve to >> cover the "value" of the punchdown block). Pinout is trivial, each side of >> the RJ21 makes a PhoneNet pair, with one pair terminated. > >There's a local electronics surplus shop brimming with Farallon PhoneNet >stuff. I'll find out what it is and let you know, and if it's something >you can use I'll pick it up for you. These are new in the original >packaging. My prefered bit would be a couple RJ21 to RJ11 snakes, and/or a couple RJ21 to RJ11 socket "harmonica" (I think thats what the patch panel of RJ11 phonenet sockets is called). I don't really have a big desire to buy and learn to use punchdown blocks and tools, and don't "really" have a use other than playing with it. Unfortunately the darn boxes were "made" for serious use in wiring closets etc., and my house was built by idiots with bell wire instead of twisted pairs. Let me know what you find. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 14 19:46:37 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Apple II SCSI card firmware rev C wanted Message-ID: <20001215014637.26223.qmail@brouhaha.com> I have an Apple II SCSI card (the original, not the "High-Speed") that I just discovered has firmware too old for use with GS/OS. On boot, GS/OS (System 6.0.1) tells me that I need version C or newer. Anyone have an image of the Rev C (or newer) EPROM? Thanks! Eric From whdawson at mlynk.com Thu Dec 14 19:50:22 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3C9@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <000301c06639$63b2b8c0$b19e72d1@cobweb.net> -> Was "Desk Set" the Tracy-Hepburn film with -> him as an efficiency expert, to her girl-from- -> small-town-working-in-the-big-city? Yes. Just watched it a few months ago. One of the tapes in my large Betamax library. From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Dec 14 20:00:27 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:40 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx and IEEE-488 interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >I've seen at least one high end Kodak photo printer that used a 488 >interface with a Mac, but this is a heck of a guessing game compared to >just firing up the mac and running something like TattleTech that reads the >rom on the cards. Actually, I was thinking about the other stuff in the storeroom these were in...as there were a good dozen of them plus lots of other stuff...and there was a large bubblejet color printer of some kind in there and if I recall correctly it was either from Kodak or Cannon. It was larger than a normal table saw...the thing was huge! There were also a couple of Quadra's and a few PM 8500's as well as what appeared to be an early Sony CDR in a large pizza-box style case. Anyway, there were a couple of 488 cables coming out of the pile near the printer. I'll have to take a closer look at it all either tomorrow or Monday...maybe even try to power up on of the IIfx's. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ernestls at home.com Thu Dec 14 20:09:11 2000 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <14905.18002.52624.454097@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org >[mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Dave McGuire >Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 2:15 PM >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Subject: RE: Vintage computers in movies > > >On December 13, Ernest wrote: >> >Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink >> >AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success >> >IMSAI -Wargames >> >HP-150 -Real Genius >> >GE Differential Analyzer (UCLA) -When Worlds Collide >> >Thinking Machines CM-5 -Jurrasic Park >> >Memotech FDX500 or MTX512 -Weird Science >> >Mac Plus -Star Trek IV >> >VAX 11/750 with IBM 3290 plasma display panels -some >independant film (?) >> > Wait a minute...Wasn't it a 7300, not a 6300, in the "Secret of my >Success"? There may have been a 7300 also, since AT&T probably had the advertising rights but there were several 6300's around on different desks. E From mwp at acm.org Thu Dec 14 20:24:04 2000 From: mwp at acm.org (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Question about Delphi References: Message-ID: <009b01c0663e$186128c0$0200a8c0@swbell.net> > Does anyone know what mainframes the online service Delphi ran on? VAXen, I believe, from poking around in Delphi during part of my misspent youth. No idea what hardware, but the back end _had_ to be VMS. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 14 20:39:47 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Apple II SCSI card firmware rev C wanted In-Reply-To: <20001215014637.26223.qmail@brouhaha.com> (message from Eric Smith on 15 Dec 2000 01:46:37 -0000) References: <20001215014637.26223.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <20001215023947.28359.qmail@brouhaha.com> Previously I asked if anyone has the Rev C. firmware for the Apple II SCSI card (not "High-Speed"). I've found out that this is Apple Part Number 341-0437A, and is no longer available (what a surprise). But if anyone has an image... Thanks! Eric From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 14 21:11:14 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx and IEEE-488 interface In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001214221114.55370e94@mailhost.intellistar.net> Who made the card? I've seen HP-IB cards for the Mac and I've seen a National Instruments card that had what appeared to be a HP-IB port but when I checked with N.I. about the card they said that it was not NP_IB but some kind a data acquision card. At 05:28 PM 12/14/00 -0800, you wrote: >> I was checking out some Mac IIfx machines today and they had >>what appeared to be boards with a single IEEE-488 connector on them. >>To the best of my knowledge, all the machines were used as graphics >>workstations. I've never seen that interface on a Mac before >>though...any ideas what it might have been used for? > >I've seen at least one high end Kodak photo printer that used a 488 >interface with a Mac, I don't know about the MAC version but one of the Nikon 35mm slide scanners uses a N.I. HP-IB card (model AT-GPIB) when connected to a PC. That scanner is no longer sold but according to Nikon, it is THE highest resolution scanner (2000 dpi IIRC) that Nikon ever made, at least for the PC. Joe but this is a heck of a guessing game compared to >just firing up the mac and running something like TattleTech that reads the >rom on the cards. > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 14 21:40:07 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) In-Reply-To: <00Dec14.151138gmt.46094@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001214224007.09df14f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Adrian, I had* a couple of Zydacron Z-220 CODEC Video Conferencing cards that handled both NTSC and PAL. They didn't have TV tuners so I don't know if they'd do what you wanted or not. *I say had because I JUST sold them. The guy told me today that he wanted both of them. I think I may have one more but I'm not sure. I posted a picture and a brief description of them at "http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1200992955&ed=976557 593". Joe At 03:11 PM 12/14/00 +0000, you wrote: >Hi folks, > >I thought I had a great idea the other day. Since the number of NTSC >machines in my collection is growing and my little NTSC portable isn't the >best of things to look at (3" screen!) I thought I'd get a TV tuner card for >my PC that would allow me to connect up my PAL machines and my NTSC >machines. Amongst other things this would let me do screen grabs of uncommon >machine boot screens and the like for the museum. > >Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does >BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live >happily together in the same box? > >cheers > >adrian/witchy >www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum > From djg at drs-esg.com Thu Dec 14 20:59:08 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: DEC CR05/ Peripheral Dynamics 2022H card reader Message-ID: <200012150259.VAA03443@drs-esg.com> I think this got lost in the server rearrange: Anybody have information on this card reader? It says DEC CR05 on the outside but seems to be made by Peripheral Dynamics, made in 1981. I just acquired it and would like to figure out the I/O etc. Thanks, David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights From ncherry at home.net Thu Dec 14 21:07:52 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies References: <3A383619.6A5F1E3B@home.com> <14905.18002.52624.454097@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3A398B08.1CED08CD@home.net> Dave McGuire wrote: > > On December 13, Ernest wrote: > > >Televideo TS-802 -Pretty in Pink > > >AT&T 6300 -Secret to My Success > > >IMSAI -Wargames > > >HP-150 -Real Genius > > >GE Differential Analyzer (UCLA) -When Worlds Collide > > >Thinking Machines CM-5 -Jurrasic Park > > >Memotech FDX500 or MTX512 -Weird Science > > >Mac Plus -Star Trek IV > > >VAX 11/750 with IBM 3290 plasma display panels -some independant film (?) > > > > It's kind of cool to be able to spot a vintage computer that you recognize > > in a movie. I never noticed the computers in "Secret to my Success" until I > > found a AT&T 6300, and then the computers on the desks might as well of had > > flashing red lights on them. "Hey! I've got one of those." > > Wait a minute...Wasn't it a 7300, not a 6300, in the "Secret of my > Success"? Having supported both beasts I'm pretty certain it was a 6300. There have been movies with the 7300 and 3B1 in them. I know their keyboards (one of my favorite) anywhere! The 6300 was not one of my favorites! -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ncherry at home.net Thu Dec 14 21:14:15 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx and IEEE-488 interface References: Message-ID: <3A398C87.8C40A488@home.net> Jeff Hellige wrote: > > I was checking out some Mac IIfx machines today and they had > what appeared to be boards with a single IEEE-488 connector on them. > To the best of my knowledge, all the machines were used as graphics > workstations. I've never seen that interface on a Mac before > though...any ideas what it might have been used for? I remember one use was for driving photo camera's (slide makers?). The MAC would create the picture on the camera's film and you would have it developed. Thus the slides. Now for the conspirasists (sp?) out there: You realize that if you can use a computer to generate a picture (and I think film is still valid in court) that you could create a picture with what ever you want on it. But then again with NBC's (or was it CBS) changing an ad (in almost realtime) during the Y2K eve dropping of the ball nothing should surprise us any more. Gives a whole new meaning to "Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see". -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ncherry at home.net Thu Dec 14 21:26:38 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Question about Delphi References: <00a501c0662c$143c1550$5c759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3A398F6E.AC7CFF2E@home.net> ajp166 wrote: > > From: Neil Cherry > > >Most VAX are mini's (at least in my Opinion). I'm not sure exactly what > >decides that a machine is a Main frame, a mini and a micro (yes I know > >most desktops are micro's). > > A MicrovaxII in a BA32 is a mini. I VAX6440 is a super mini. VAX9000 > certainly qualifies as MAINFRAME. > > The '80s blurred mini/mainframe and VAX and AS400 type machines > were doing their best to foster that. The VAX (11/780!) was originally > called a superminicomputer. Then again a 8250 with a disk farm was > anything but mini. I agree, that's why I tipped toed through that mine field and said "Most VAX are mini's". I think the medium sized VAX's were the big sellers, weren't they? I would guess that the VAX 3100's and 4000's would be called workstations even though they were more powerful that their predacessors. It's the Unix boxen that confuse me the most, I supported the 3B2 line of AT&T computers and they had the 3B1 (desktop/workstation/micro computer) the 3B2 (micro/mini's), the 3B5/3B15 (mini), 3B20 Simplex/Duplex (main frame?), and the 3b2/4000 (main frame? [4 3B2/1000's in parallel]). Now to even throw a smaller wrench into the works, I worked with OS9 and a Gimix Ghost. It had 2 meg of RAM, an 80 M MFM drive, 12 serial ports, 2 printer ports and a video interface (which we didn't use). This box used a 6809 as it core processor, although every 4 serial ports had a 6809 to handle buffering and skid (flow) control. I loved that box and wish I had it now. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 14 21:38:53 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx and IEEE-488 interface In-Reply-To: Re: Mac IIfx and IEEE-488 interface (Mike Ford) References: Message-ID: <14905.37453.143694.89698@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 14, Mike Ford wrote: > I've seen at least one high end Kodak photo printer that used a 488 > interface with a Mac, but this is a heck of a guessing game compared to > just firing up the mac and running something like TattleTech that reads the > rom on the cards. Yes, that's right, I had almost forgotten. The XL-7700 and XLT-7720 both use IEEE-488, though at least the 7720 can have a SCSI board. I use a 7720 interfaced to my Mac via SCSI. Gorgeous output; indistinguishable from mainstream photographs. -Dave McGuire From rdd at smart.net Thu Dec 14 21:39:19 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Way OT: storage media In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > You might want to consider not minitaurizing the keyboards and display > quite that much. > And punch cards that size would be difficult to handle. ...and mag tapes would be a nuisance if miniaturized that much, and lights and switches panels just wouldn't look quite right... besides, the tiny disk drives wouldn't produce nice sounds like larger drives produce. -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Dec 14 22:34:32 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001214124351.02c03960@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001214203401.021d1840@208.226.86.10> PDP-8/E with DECTAPE drives and what looks like and RS08 fixed head disk. --Chuck At 02:00 PM 12/14/00 -0800, you wrote: >On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > > > PDP-8 in 3 days of the condor > > Which model PDP-8? B^} > >-jim >--- >jimw@agora.rdrop.com >The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw >Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Dec 14 23:07:26 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: GS disks an' that. In-Reply-To: <000301c06631$fe6c1260$0200a8c0@thinkpad> from "Henry Broekhuyse" at Dec 14, 2000 04:57:27 PM Message-ID: <200012150507.WAA05951@calico.litterbox.com> > > > The easiest (and IMHO best) solution to this problem is to go to > > www.allelec.com > > and for $69 purchase the focusdrive IIgs, which has system 6.0.1 already > > on it. These drives are great. You'll need at least a 4 mb > > memory expander to run it though. > > The original posting on this topic was from someone with an original "Woz" > GS. Many "Woz" GSs were of the "ROM 00" type (the later versions were ROM 01 > and ROM 03). Apparently all versions of GS/OS require a minimum version of > ROM 01. Eww. I missed that detail. the one I'm parting out is a rom01 that has run GSOS 6.0.1. > > The FAQ collection for the Apple II series of computers is among the most > extensive available for any "vintage" system - there are over twenty > individual text files making up the full FAQ list. Among other things, it > contains a thorough discussion of the various methods of transferring files > to and from any Apple II series computer, right down to the "how to" > instructions. An updated version of the full FAQ list "appears" on > comp.sys.apple2 around the beginning of every month. > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 14 22:30:44 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: RJ21 to AppleTalk? In-Reply-To: <000401c06634$d0221140$0200a8c0@thinkpad> References: Message-ID: >There is still a fair bit of information about this equipment on Farallon's >web site. As you probably realize, one has to consider that only a very >large Localtalk network warrants the trouble of setting up a StarController >and its associated cabling. My office still has a "decommissioned" one, >which hasn't seen service since we switched to using ethernet. Thats just it, I have all this quite expensive at one time, completely neato, designed for a huge LocalTalk/PhoneNet office complex hardware, and I WANT to play with it. For no sane reason, but I have it, so I desire it to function in the manner it was intended. My StarRouter for example bridges one line of 10bt to 12 or more networks of PhoneNet (whole networks, not just devices). I've never actually seen a LocalTalk/PhoneNet network that large, and kind of wonder how common outside of SillyCon Valley they were. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 14 22:58:44 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Tossing more than cookies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Things have been nuts recently at one college, the boss boss visited the mainyard where everything gets dumped that doesn't have any special value, and said clean it up, EVERYTHING. Tuesday the 6th truck sized dumpster got filled, and it was mayhem. One of the painfull things to see dumped was a working HP 300XL large format inkjet, an old full page display from an XT era system. I bought and saved what I could, but it was weird, basically same old price if you want it, otherwise tossed in a dumpster and you can't get it out. Sad sight. I've got to clean up my own act so something not too different doesn't happen to me. From clp at flange.com Thu Dec 14 23:18:18 2000 From: clp at flange.com (Chuck L. Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Looking for adm3a Message-ID: <02cb01c06656$6fe2a980$0300000a@THOQWA> I'm looking for 2 Lear-Seigler adm3a's (the ones with lower case). Please help me save these! Thanks. - Chuck From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Dec 14 23:23:56 2000 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Question about Delphi In-Reply-To: <200012141920.MAA03695@calico.litterbox.com>; from jim@calico.litterbox.com on Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 12:20:22PM -0700 References: <200012141920.MAA03695@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <20001214212356.A2073@loomcom.com> On Thu, Dec 14, 2000 at 12:20:22PM -0700, Jim Strickland wrote: > Runs. Delphi is still out there. I heard somewhere it ran on Vaxen until > recently but I wouldn't elevate that fact beyond the rumor level. Delphi is > at www.delphi.com and subscription for a web only account is free, perhaps > one of the folk there can answer your question. In fact, it's still running a shell service as well. I've been grandfathered into my account there. It's still running VMS, but the shell is a very heavily modified DCL-driven menu system of some kind, so I can't do anything silly like "$ SHOW SYSTEM". But it's definitely VMS. You get dumped into VMS MAIL when you check your email. -Seth From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 15 01:57:06 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Dec 14, 0 11:28:03 am" Message-ID: <200012150757.XAA10296@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does > >BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live > >happily together in the same box? > > Well.... My PowerMac 8500/180 came with that capability builtin :^) I > don't know if other A/V Mac's have this capability or not. It should work, I've heard of people doing it on a 7600 before. It's just that the 7300 has the A/V connector on the board removed, so I can't grab an A/V module and stick it in. Never mind, I like the card better anyway. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Just another Sojourner of the Dispersion (1 Peter 1:1) --------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 15 01:59:00 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Dec 14, 0 10:16:30 am" Message-ID: <200012150759.XAA09026@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > And by 2005 they will only be 21 years old :) Boy, just what we need. //c's that can go out and get drunk legally. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It is necessary to have purpose. -- Alice #1, Star Trek "I, Mudd" ---------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 15 02:01:16 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: GS disks an' that. In-Reply-To: <200012141906.MAA03630@calico.litterbox.com> from Jim Strickland at "Dec 14, 0 12:06:44 pm" Message-ID: <200012150801.AAA11638@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Alternately, if you go to http://www.byteworks.org/APDA/system.htm you can > buy the system disks directly. If you need the 4 meg expansion board or any > other accessories do please let me know, I have a GS that's been dropped that > I'm parting out. Well, I'd be interested. I have a 1MB ROM 03 that needs a brain upgrade so it can boot GS/OS without crashing all the dang time. What challenging electronics have you got, and how much green did you have in mind? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Beware the Lollipop of Mediocrity: lick it once, and you suck forever! ----- From null at domain2.bigpond.com Fri Dec 15 03:13:41 2000 From: null at domain2.bigpond.com (null@domain2.bigpond.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <09134184019029@domain2.bigpond.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: CAHFPJCA.EXE Type: application/octet-stream Size: 24064 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001215/a34ab665/CAHFPJCA.obj From flo at rdel.co.uk Fri Dec 15 03:41:53 2000 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Z80 SIO programming References: <3A39312D.A73500A3@home.net> Message-ID: <3A39E761.E3220F71@rdel.co.uk> Neil Cherry wrote: > > I've been unable to find a programing manual for the Z80 SIO. Does > anyone have a link for it, the PIO and CTC? I'm begining to think > the search engines are broken. I've been finding a lot less on the > 'net lately. You're not using Google, then. The Z80 PIO datasheet can be found on Thomas Scherrer's Z80 Family Support page: If you can't find the SIO datasheet on Zilog's site, let me know off list and I will scan it for you. From agraham at ccat.co.uk Fri Dec 15 04:51:02 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: TV cards/WOZ disks Message-ID: <00Dec15.105104gmt.46096@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:20:43 -0800 (PST) > From: Cameron Kaiser > Subject: Re: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) > > You probably have a PeeCee, but I bought a Formac PCI tuner > card for my > PowerMac. After I had a mild brain fart getting the RF input I wish I had the cash to buy a PowerMac! Believe it or not our little one uses a Color Classic at school so she's right into Apples ATM :) She's only 4 1/2 but had no bother navigating her way round a Performer 475 last weekend! > > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:06:44 -0700 (MST) > From: Jim Strickland > Subject: Re: GS disks an' that. > > The easiest (and IMHO best) solution to this problem is to go > to www.allelec.com > and for $69 purchase the focusdrive IIgs, which has system > 6.0.1 already > on it. These drives are great. You'll need at least a 4 mb > memory expander > to run it though. Ah, but that's money :) I'd rather spend the cash on saving more machines from the skip...... > > I've got a spare Amiga -> CVBS cable if needs be...... > > What does this do? Perhaps we could trade amiga hardware for > GS hardware? It's the official C= D23 to red/white/yellow RCA type connectors to plug into a 1084 monitor or any CVBS supporting monitor like the Philips CM8833. > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 14:21:00 -0500 > From: THETechnoid@home.com > Subject: Re: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) > > My friend Mark of Skyforward Productions uses a Mirrovideo dc30 series > card that does both video standards. I think it might also do > PAL/M and > Secam. You will have to research the newer-model cards as his is no > longer made. thanks! I'll do a swift google search and see what I turn up. > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:21:27 -0500 > From: Jeff Hellige > Subject: Re: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) > > For an older PC using PCI slots for the video card, the Real > 3D Starfighter had a version that had both inputs and outputs that > could work with both PAL and NTSC. It's a 3D card based on the i860 > and it has 16meg of RAM onboard. I used to see these on eBay quite a > bit. 'Tis a pity my primary card is a AGP Nvidia GeForce 2......thanks anyway. > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 23:59:42 +0100 (CET) > From: kees.stravers@iae.nl > Subject: Re: TV Tuner cards (Correction) > > The Matrox Marvel G400-TV can record and playback in both PAL > and NTSC. > Kees. Can it? I didn't know that......I might be able to get one of these locally. > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 16:57:27 -0800 > From: "Henry Broekhuyse" > Subject: RE: GS disks an' that. > > The original posting on this topic was from someone with an > original "Woz" GS. Many "Woz" GSs were of the "ROM 00" type (the later > versions were ROM 01 and ROM 03). Apparently all versions of GS/OS require a > minimum version of ROM 01. Actually, mine isn't an original "Woz edition" per se. It's a normal GS that's been signed by the man himself and dedicated to the previous owner underneath the hood ("Richard, love a bug" it says - the previous owner was the man behind the Apple Retrospective website and he has a thing about VW beetles). I was looking at it last week trying to find out what version ROM it has and I drew a blank. I'll check the FAQ, but I think the core thing I must do is get a 3.5" floppy that will actually work. > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 17:32:53 +0000 > From: Jim Arnott > Subject: Re: GS disks an' that. > > WHile we're on the subject of GS's... The local thrift store has a > complete IIgs system (CPU, monitor, external 3.5" drive, Imagewriter > II, cables, power supplies, software) that they're asking $25 for. > Anyone interested? Claim that it fires up just fine. (shipping would > be from 97883) And therefore too expensive to get to the UK. I don't suppose you could just buy the floppy drive for me could you? :o)) cheers folks adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Fri Dec 15 07:31:43 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <200012142356.SAA06198@world.std.com> from Megan at "Dec 14, 2000 06:56:12 pm" Message-ID: <200012151331.eBFDVhR00685@bg-tc-ppp429.monmouth.com> > >> PDP-8 in 3 days of the condor > > > > Which model PDP-8? B^} > > I'll have to watch it again to find out... I've forgotten. > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | > | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | > | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | > | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | > | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | > | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | > +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ > > I seem to think 8E. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk Fri Dec 15 14:48:53 2000 From: PeksaDO at Cardiff.ac.uk (DOUG PEKSA - COMPG) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: TI MicroProcessor Learning System ??? Message-ID: <3A3A3025.29149.15EAC5FD@localhost> I have something very similar (if not identical) to the black box with white top and metal toggle switches. Mine is a microprogrammer (as visible on the picture) LCM-1001. I have nothing to plug into the expansion socket but do have a paperback book containing diagrams similar to those on the cover of the hardback book shown in the picture. It might be the same book in paperback - I'll have to check. My microprogrammer still works happily on its original NiCads - not bad for something over twenty years old. I still have the original box. Also have the mains adapter/charger. Doug. From jrasite at eoni.com Fri Dec 15 00:51:28 2000 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? References: Message-ID: <3A39BF51.B73B2A78@eoni.com> This morning I received a post to classiccmp from 'null@domain2.bigpond.com' containing an executable entitled 'CAHFPJCA.EXE'. I run a Mac, so it's no threat to me, but folks running the 90% solution might want to be careful... Jim From jtinker at coin.org Fri Dec 15 09:02:57 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Tossing more than cookies References: Message-ID: <3A3A32A1.AE45590E@coin.org> Mike Ford wrote: > Things have been nuts recently at one college, the boss boss visited the > mainyard where everything gets dumped that doesn't have any special value, > and said clean it up, EVERYTHING. Tuesday the 6th truck sized dumpster got > filled, and it was mayhem. One of the painfull things to see dumped was a > working HP 300XL large format inkjet, an old full page display from an XT > era system. I bought and saved what I could, but it was weird, basically > same old price if you want it, otherwise tossed in a dumpster and you can't > get it out. Sad sight. > Which college? From rmeenaks at olf.com Fri Dec 15 09:16:02 2000 From: rmeenaks at olf.com (Ram Meenakshisundaram) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? References: <3A39BF51.B73B2A78@eoni.com> Message-ID: <004801c066a9$f01d92b0$faea0191@olf.com> Apparently a virus as NAV responded: Sender of the infected attachment: null@domain2.bigpond.com Subject of the message: One or more attachments were quarantined. Attachment CAHFPJCA.EXE was Quarantined for the following reasons: Virus W95.Hybris.gen was found. Ram ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Arnott" To: Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 1:51 AM Subject: Virus/worm? > This morning I received a post to classiccmp from > 'null@domain2.bigpond.com' containing an executable entitled > 'CAHFPJCA.EXE'. I run a Mac, so it's no threat to me, but folks > running the 90% solution might want to be careful... > > Jim From LFessen106 at aol.com Fri Dec 15 09:14:57 2000 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? Message-ID: <67.d34e5a6.276b8f71@aol.com> In a message dated 12/15/00 10:11:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, rmeenaks@olf.com writes: > Apparently a virus as NAV responded: > > Sender of the infected attachment: null@domain2.bigpond.com > Subject of the message: > One or more attachments were quarantined. > Attachment CAHFPJCA.EXE was Quarantined for the following reasons: > Virus W95.Hybris.gen was found. > > Ram > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jim Arnott" > To: > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 1:51 AM > Subject: Virus/worm? > > > > This morning I received a post to classiccmp from > > 'null@domain2.bigpond.com' containing an executable entitled > > 'CAHFPJCA.EXE'. I run a Mac, so it's no threat to me, but folks > > running the 90% solution might want to be careful... > > > > Jim > One of the many reasons I run Linux as my OS of choice is so I can chuckle robustly at these virus attachments. -Linc Fessenden From bills at adrenaline.com Fri Dec 15 09:21:58 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: <200012142351.SAA03058@world.std.com> Message-ID: > >"IBM used to send out its salesmen with little 1/24 > > models of their Mainframe installations to do site > > planning on the desktop first before bringing in the > > actual HW. With Moore's Law and the progress of > > miniaturization, you could Build a system that big > > now that actually works." > > > >Only with more power. > > Imagine putting together a little model of, say, the > PDP-10 system on the back cover of one of the PDP-10 > reference manuals, but build an imbedded x86 machine > into the model, with one serial line... run linux on > the the embedded machine and Timothy Stark's pdp-10 > emulator running TOPS-10... My wife messes around with doll houses now and then. Several times I've wondered if I could build a fully functioning miniature IMSAI, just front panel programmable. From ncherry at home.net Fri Dec 15 09:28:11 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? References: <3A39BF51.B73B2A78@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3A3A388B.703F95CD@home.net> Jim Arnott wrote: > > This morning I received a post to classiccmp from > 'null@domain2.bigpond.com' containing an executable entitled > 'CAHFPJCA.EXE'. I run a Mac, so it's no threat to me, but folks > running the 90% solution might want to be careful... Hmmm, on this list would that be VMS or CP/M? :-) (I seemed to be safe with Linux, for the moment.) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From tarsi at binhost.com Fri Dec 15 09:31:15 2000 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? In-Reply-To: <3A39BF51.B73B2A78@eoni.com> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20001215093046.020671e0@binhost.com> I also received this, Norton AV caught it on my computer. It is definately a virus, do be warned. Tarsi 210 At 06:51 AM 12/15/00 +0000, you wrote: >This morning I received a post to classiccmp from >'null@domain2.bigpond.com' containing an executable entitled >'CAHFPJCA.EXE'. I run a Mac, so it's no threat to me, but folks >running the 90% solution might want to be careful... > >Jim --------------------------------- Nathan E. Pralle Vice President and CTO binHOST.com - Network Services for the World http://www.binhost.com tarsi@binhost.com --------------------------------- From ncherry at home.net Fri Dec 15 09:31:51 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Z80 SIO programming References: <3A39312D.A73500A3@home.net> <3A39E761.E3220F71@rdel.co.uk> Message-ID: <3A3A3967.92E67BE7@home.net> Paul Williams wrote: > > Neil Cherry wrote: > > > > I've been unable to find a programing manual for the Z80 SIO. Does > > anyone have a link for it, the PIO and CTC? I'm begining to think > > the search engines are broken. I've been finding a lot less on the > > 'net lately. > > You're not using Google, then. The Z80 PIO datasheet can be found on > Thomas Scherrer's Z80 Family Support page: > > > If you can't find the SIO datasheet on Zilog's site, let me know off > list and I will scan it for you. I used Metacrawler, which is supposed to search Google. Hmph, doesn't that just suck! Thanks, I now know that there is a problem with the search engine. BTW, Zilog doesn't have a direct SIO page but the 8430 does appear to be close. I have to double check the pin out to be sure. Thanks! -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From dburrows at netpath.net Fri Dec 15 09:35:03 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? Message-ID: <015501c066ac$ce688be0$a652e780@L166> I just sent a complaint to the appropriate abuse department of the sender. It is infected with W95.HYBRIS.GEN virus. What I also found interesting is my incoming filters did not move it to the classic -cmp directory like it does for everything else. Dan >This morning I received a post to classiccmp from >'null@domain2.bigpond.com' containing an executable entitled >'CAHFPJCA.EXE'. I run a Mac, so it's no threat to me, but folks >running the 90% solution might want to be careful... > >Jim From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Fri Dec 15 09:49:03 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? (Hybris.gen) In-Reply-To: <004801c066a9$f01d92b0$faea0191@olf.com> References: <3A39BF51.B73B2A78@eoni.com> <004801c066a9$f01d92b0$faea0191@olf.com> Message-ID: <00121509490302.00609@Billbob_Linux> Hi, > Sender of the infected attachment: null@domain2.bigpond.com > Subject of the message: > One or more attachments were quarantined. > Attachment CAHFPJCA.EXE was Quarantined for the following reasons: > Virus W95.Hybris.gen was found. Very interesting.. I received this same worm from an unknown source about two weeks ago - it was as an attachment named "dwarf4you.exe" and came with a message in badly broken english, which alluded to some *dirty* Snow White type humor situation.. I won't elaborate. This worm replicates via your Outlook (Lookout!) address book, sending copies to all of your contacts. Anyone else seen 'dwarf4you.exe'? Opened it perhaps? :)) -- Bill Layer Sales Technician From edick at idcomm.com Fri Dec 15 10:07:47 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Z80 SIO programming References: <3A39312D.A73500A3@home.net> <3A39E761.E3220F71@rdel.co.uk> <3A3A3967.92E67BE7@home.net> Message-ID: <003301c066b1$2ad328a0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I found that Zilog has taken down the datasheets for their old products. Further, though I found the pinout of the various versions of the SIO, I found no data sheet at Thomas Scherrer's Z80 Family Support page. Google search on "Z80 SIO" yielded nothing useful. Since these parts have been out of use for well over ten years, it's no surprise that the reference materials are getting scarce. Maybe we should find a place to put the complete documents, since Thomas Scherrer's Z80 Family Support page only has the pinout. Keep in mind, by the way, that there are actually four parts that fall under the umberella of "Z80 SIO" and these include the DART. The SIO/0 and DART share the same pinout/bondout, but the synchronous clocking logic in the DART is not necessarily functional. The SIO/1 and SIO/2, though similar, are bonded out differently, as reflected in Thomas Scherrer's Z80 Family Support page though that doesn't tell you about the programming. Looking at the signals that are internally tied together will shed some light on the differring programming considerations, though the pinout doesn't tell you everything. I believe I still have the full-size data sheets from Zilog. Those will probably provide the best scans if nobody else has them. The data books are only half that size. Unfortunately, the later data sheets are only about half-size as well. I found that no problem back in '76 or so, but nowadays, reading the databook is always preceeded by an easter-egg-hunt for the reading glasses. If you're really desperate for a scan of the sheet, i.e. you need it NOW, then email me and I'll see if I can get it done right away. (I'm in scanning mode for the morning.) Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Cherry" To: Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:31 AM Subject: Re: Z80 SIO programming > Paul Williams wrote: > > > > Neil Cherry wrote: > > > > > > I've been unable to find a programing manual for the Z80 SIO. Does > > > anyone have a link for it, the PIO and CTC? I'm begining to think > > > the search engines are broken. I've been finding a lot less on the > > > 'net lately. > > > > You're not using Google, then. The Z80 PIO datasheet can be found on > > Thomas Scherrer's Z80 Family Support page: > > > > > > If you can't find the SIO datasheet on Zilog's site, let me know off > > list and I will scan it for you. > > I used Metacrawler, which is supposed to search Google. Hmph, doesn't > that just suck! Thanks, I now know that there is a problem with the > search engine. BTW, Zilog doesn't have a direct SIO page but the 8430 > does appear to be close. I have to double check the pin out to be sure. > > Thanks! > > -- > Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net > http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) > http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) > http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Dec 15 10:10:36 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? (Hybris.gen) References: <3A39BF51.B73B2A78@eoni.com> <004801c066a9$f01d92b0$faea0191@olf.com> <00121509490302.00609@Billbob_Linux> Message-ID: <003f01c066b1$8f5daf20$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I received the message from null@domain2.bigpond.com via HOTMAIL yesterday. Since I don't open mail from unknown sources, I didn't learn much about it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Layer" To: Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:49 AM Subject: Re: Virus/worm? (Hybris.gen) > Hi, > > > Sender of the infected attachment: null@domain2.bigpond.com > > Subject of the message: > > One or more attachments were quarantined. > > Attachment CAHFPJCA.EXE was Quarantined for the following reasons: > > Virus W95.Hybris.gen was found. > > Very interesting.. I received this same worm from an unknown source about two > weeks ago - it was as an attachment named "dwarf4you.exe" and came with a > message in badly broken english, which alluded to some *dirty* Snow White > type humor situation.. I won't elaborate. > > This worm replicates via your Outlook (Lookout!) address book, sending copies > to all of your contacts. > > Anyone else seen 'dwarf4you.exe'? Opened it perhaps? :)) > > > > -- > Bill Layer > Sales Technician > > > From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 15 10:01:23 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Z80 SIO programming In-Reply-To: <3A39E761.E3220F71@rdel.co.uk> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Paul Williams wrote: > > I've been unable to find a programing manual for the Z80 SIO. Does > > anyone have a link for it, the PIO and CTC? I'm begining to think > > the search engines are broken. I've been finding a lot less on the > > 'net lately. > > You're not using Google, then. The Z80 PIO datasheet can be found on > Thomas Scherrer's Z80 Family Support page: > > > If you can't find the SIO datasheet on Zilog's site, let me know off > list and I will scan it for you. This site could have also been found under the Z-80 subsection of the "Vintage Microprocessor Resources" section of the VCF Link Library: http://www.vintage.org/cgi-bin/links.pl#microprocessors Better than a search engine when it comes to classic computer stuff. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 15 10:04:15 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > My wife messes around with doll houses now and then. > Several times I've wondered if I could build a fully > functioning miniature IMSAI, just front panel > programmable. Or you can build a dollhouse controlled by an IMSAI: http://www.vintage.org/exhibit99.html (scroll down to the 11th set of pictures :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Scott.Miller at vandenberg.af.mil Fri Dec 15 11:19:12 2000 From: Scott.Miller at vandenberg.af.mil (Miller Scott Contr 30CS/FTI) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) Message-ID: I just picked up a Pinnacle Systems Studio PCTVpro at Office Depot for about $80. It does NTSC, PAL, and SECAM. Or at least it says it does... I don't have anything besides NTSC to test it with. Scott -----Original Message----- From: Adrian Graham [mailto:agraham@ccat.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 7:12 AM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) Hi folks, I thought I had a great idea the other day. Since the number of NTSC machines in my collection is growing and my little NTSC portable isn't the best of things to look at (3" screen!) I thought I'd get a TV tuner card for my PC that would allow me to connect up my PAL machines and my NTSC machines. Amongst other things this would let me do screen grabs of uncommon machine boot screens and the like for the museum. Problem - I can't find one anywhere! Does anyone know of a card that does BOTH PAL-I and NTSC or do I need to get 2 cards? And will 2 cards live happily together in the same box? cheers adrian/witchy www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk - the Online Computer Museum From elvey at hal.com Fri Dec 15 11:22:44 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? In-Reply-To: <3A39BF51.B73B2A78@eoni.com> Message-ID: <200012151722.JAA26881@civic.hal.com> Jim Arnott wrote: > This morning I received a post to classiccmp from > 'null@domain2.bigpond.com' containing an executable entitled > 'CAHFPJCA.EXE'. I run a Mac, so it's no threat to me, but folks > running the 90% solution might want to be careful... > > Jim Hi Our incoming virus checker called it TROJ_HYBRIS.B. I would suspect that it might be someone on the list that has an infected machine. Dwight From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Dec 15 11:31:51 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies Message-ID: Almost a computer system :) If I remember correctly Robert Redford was reading the output from a Decwriter III in "Three Days of the Condor". Supposedly the computer system did automatic language translation. I don't remember what the rest of the system looked like. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 15 11:29:47 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... Message-ID: Personally, I consider all VAXen minicomputers, except for the 9000's, which I definetly agree are mainframes (use MCM technology, can be serviced without bringing down the whole system, etc.). But then again, I'd call just about any dedicated UNIX box (aka "workstation") a minicomputer too... I personally make the distinctions based not so much on physical size, but on the architecture, software, etc. For example, the smallest VAX is still a minicomputer to me because it uses a bus used only by DEC, a DEC processor, and runs a DEC-created operating system (I'm only talking about the OS that it was originally meant to run, please don't think I'm trying to leave out UNIX, BSD, or Idris, to name a few). Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From elecdata at kcinter.net Fri Dec 15 11:36:41 2000 From: elecdata at kcinter.net (bill claussen) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? References: <3A39BF51.B73B2A78@eoni.com> Message-ID: <3A3A56A8.B60A64A9@kcinter.net> I received the same attachment this morning but it was from a hotmail address. This is a shame that a Cretan has to cause this disruption. Bill Jim Arnott wrote: > This morning I received a post to classiccmp from > 'null@domain2.bigpond.com' containing an executable entitled > 'CAHFPJCA.EXE'. I run a Mac, so it's no threat to me, but folks > running the 90% solution might want to be careful... > > Jim From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 15 12:27:01 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: TV cards/WOZ disks In-Reply-To: <00Dec15.105104gmt.46096@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> from Adrian Graham at "Dec 15, 0 10:51:02 am" Message-ID: <200012151827.KAA12472@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > You probably have a PeeCee, but I bought a Formac PCI tuner > > card for my > > PowerMac. After I had a mild brain fart getting the RF input > > I wish I had the cash to buy a PowerMac! Believe it or not our little one > uses a Color Classic at school so she's right into Apples ATM :) She's only > 4 1/2 but had no bother navigating her way round a Performer 475 last > weekend! Just to brag, my 7300 cost me exactly $0.00. :-) (Well, okay, and enough worktime at my former place of employment where computers they don't want anymore mysteriously end up in my possession.) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Line printer paper is strongest at its perforations. ----------------------- From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Dec 15 12:20:17 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3CF@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > I received the same attachment this morning but it was from a hotmail > address. This is a shame that a Cretan has to cause this disruption. Strange... my trace of the addresses didn't point to a site in Crete... Seriously, I never even received it- Groupshield Exchange always detects this stuff and puts it in quarantine; the original attachment was replaced by a message alerting me to what happened. Of course, as the sysadmin, I'd already received a "ticket" informing me that an infected message had come in and was taken care of. Buggy, and difficult to administer, but the NAI Total Virus Defense package hasn't slipped and let anything through yet... regards all, -dq From Scott.Miller at vandenberg.af.mil Fri Dec 15 12:28:37 2000 From: Scott.Miller at vandenberg.af.mil (Miller Scott Contr 30CS/FTI) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: storage media Message-ID: I was thinking about the possibility of building a miniature C-64... you could probably squeeze the whole thing into an FPGA, but the VIC II and SID chips might be a problem. It'd probably be easier to use an off the shelf embedded controler and adapt the VICE emulator. A 2 or 3 inch color LCD would make a nice monitor, but fabricating the miniature keyboard could be difficult. You could always use a cheap membrane-style keyboard, I guess. How about a 1541 disk drive that takes smartmedia cards? Speaking of VICE, in a fit of boredom I set up an AlphaStation with VNC to launch remote C-64 emulation sessions, sort of a C-64 ASP. You just fire up your VNC client, point it at the server, and you get an emulated C-64 with a bunch of old game disks. I haven't had it running since I moved over the summer, but if anyone's interested I can fire it up and publish the address. Scott -----Original Message----- From: Megan [mailto:mbg@world.std.com] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 3:52 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: storage media >"IBM used to send out its salesmen with little 1/24 > models of their Mainframe installations to do site > planning on the desktop first before bringing in the > actual HW. With Moore's Law and the progress of > miniaturization, you could Build a system that big > now that actually works." > >Only with more power. Imagine putting together a little model of, say, the PDP-10 system on the back cover of one of the PDP-10 reference manuals, but build an imbedded x86 machine into the model, with one serial line... run linux on the the embedded machine and Timothy Stark's pdp-10 emulator running TOPS-10... :-) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From edick at idcomm.com Fri Dec 15 12:33:16 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... References: Message-ID: <001a01c066c5$7d79d220$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Years ago, the distinction between minicomputers and microcomputers was based on the notion that microcomputers had a synchronous bus, while mini's had an asynchronous bus. Now that we all seem to own at least one microcomputer not only with an asynchronous bus but with computing power far in excess of the best that IBM et. al. could muster back in the '80's, I'm not so sure I can make a simple distinction like that. As for mainframes, well, since you can buy a more powerful computer for what it would cost to operate a mainframe of yesteryear for just one day, I guess nobody will miss 'em. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Jennings" To: Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 10:29 AM Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... > Personally, I consider all VAXen minicomputers, except for the 9000's, which > I definetly agree are mainframes (use MCM technology, can be serviced > without bringing down the whole system, etc.). But then again, I'd call just > about any dedicated UNIX box (aka "workstation") a minicomputer too... I > personally make the distinctions based not so much on physical size, but on > the architecture, software, etc. For example, the smallest VAX is still a > minicomputer to me because it uses a bus used only by DEC, a DEC processor, > and runs a DEC-created operating system (I'm only talking about the OS that > it was originally meant to run, please don't think I'm trying to leave out > UNIX, BSD, or Idris, to name a few). > > Will J > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 15 11:51:54 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:41 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4P needs new home Message-ID: Does anyone here who can afford shipping of three boxes weighing 7 pounds, 33 pounds, and 68 pounds respectively from zip code 98039 want a complete TRS-80 Model 4P (this is the portable version) with manuals and everything? If you do, please contact me directly. Serious inquiries only please. This is the fourth time I've advertise for this system trying to find it a new home. Someone has GOT to want this! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ncherry at home.net Fri Dec 15 13:36:15 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... References: <001a01c066c5$7d79d220$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3A3A72AF.579806AC@home.net> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Years ago, the distinction between minicomputers and microcomputers was > based on the notion that microcomputers had a synchronous bus, while mini's > had an asynchronous bus. Now that we all seem to own at least one > microcomputer not only with an asynchronous bus but with computing power far > in excess of the best that IBM et. al. could muster back in the '80's, I'm > not so sure I can make a simple distinction like that. > > As for mainframes, well, since you can buy a more powerful computer for what > it would cost to operate a mainframe of yesteryear for just one day, I guess > nobody will miss 'em. BLASPHEMY! ;-) There are those of us here who would make some effort to save such computers (I'm not one of them but I kow they're here). Before you say that theyre old and slow, let me remind you that we're on the Classic Computers list (that is the point of this list or am I missing something?). For instance, I purchased a MicroVax 3400 which I'm going to put in working order. I also have a VS3100, I purchased that because it was inexpensive and I could experiment on it first. I just want to be more knowledgable with the MV3400 before I start really playing with it. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 15 13:44:35 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20001215194435.7064.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Bill Sudbrink" wrote: > Several times I've wondered if I could build a fully > functioning miniature IMSAI, just front panel > programmable. Well, yes, that would be pretty neat. But the real coup would be a fully functioning miniature ASR-33. Heck, I'd settle for a KSR-33. :-) From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Dec 15 13:47:43 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Mac IIfx and IEEE-488 interface In-Reply-To: <14905.19538.397269.715778@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <14905.19538.397269.715778@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > Well, National Instruments does make a few NuBus IEEE-488 >cards...crack open one of the machines and see who made it. If memory >serves, though, they also made a card that *looks* like an IEEE >interface but isn't. I've never actually seen one of those, but I >have several of the real IEEE-488 NuBus boards. I checked the machines today and the card is made by National Instruments. I don't have the model number in front of me right now though. One of the IIfx that I opened up had a Radius 24bit graphics card (Colorview 8/24 I believe) along with a Radius RISC coprocessor card, the National Instruments card, and a 3com ethernet card. There's also a card in the 1st slot near the floppy that is pretty much unmarked and doesn't have any external or internal connectors on it. It does have it's own clock crystal though. Unfortunately, every one of them has had the hard disk removed though a number of them have a full compliment of RAM. Looks like a pretty interesting setup...I hope to get the one mentioned above working again. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Fri Dec 15 13:49:51 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: New swaplist In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00121513495109.00609@Billbob_Linux> Here is my new swaplist. If you are interested in any items, please contact me off-list. Thanks. PS hope it's ok to post it in this fashion... -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | .:Bill Layer:. | Viking Electronics,Inc. 1531 Industrial St | | .:Sales Technician:. | Hudson, WI 54016 USA + 715.386.8861 x210 | | b.layer@vikingelectronics.com | http://www.vikingelectronics.com | ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Telecom Solutions for the 21st Century" + Powered by Slackware Linux 7.1.0 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: swaplist.txt Type: text/english Size: 6094 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001215/f86451e7/swaplist.bin From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Dec 15 13:58:06 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <3A3A72AF.579806AC@home.net> from "Neil Cherry" at Dec 15, 2000 02:36:15 PM Message-ID: <200012151958.MAA08628@calico.litterbox.com> > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > Years ago, the distinction between minicomputers and microcomputers was > > based on the notion that microcomputers had a synchronous bus, while mini's > > had an asynchronous bus. Now that we all seem to own at least one > > microcomputer not only with an asynchronous bus but with computing power far > > in excess of the best that IBM et. al. could muster back in the '80's, I'm > > not so sure I can make a simple distinction like that. > > > > As for mainframes, well, since you can buy a more powerful computer for what > > it would cost to operate a mainframe of yesteryear for just one day, I guess > > nobody will miss 'em. Last time this subject came up, it was pointed out to me that mainframes are much more batch oriented than micros or minis. They're designed to be fed their job, then left alone to plow through the data, then cough up a report - they're not optimised for direct user interaction. And there's still a place in the world for modern mainframes - IBM still makes them - because some jobs require more computing horsepower and reliability than modern pcs can deliver, and hooking one clydsdale to a big job instead of 400 squirrels is alot easier and cost effective to manage. And as for reliability, let me draw my line in the sand and say that I think using PCs for mission critical servers is not a good idea. Even if you put a decent OS on them - Linux, Solaris, FreeBSD, etc, they're not designed or supported the way a real mini or mainframe is. 'course the flip side is you can keep another machine around for a spare for a reasonable cost... -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Dec 15 14:26:10 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <200012151958.MAA08628@calico.litterbox.com> References: <3A3A72AF.579806AC@home.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215122112.03005900@208.226.86.10> At 12:58 PM 12/15/00 -0700, Jim wrote: >Last time this subject came up, it was pointed out to me that mainframes are >much more batch oriented than micros or minis. They're designed to be fed >their job, then left alone to plow through the data, then cough up a report - >they're not optimised for direct user interaction. There are lots of ways to "slice" this question. I have at various time used: if it runs on one 110V wall socket its a micro if it takes 220 and/or three phase its a mini if it takes 440 and its own voltage consditioning system its a mainframe Then there was if the "CPU" is one chip its a micro if the "CPU" is multiple chips/boards its a mini if the "CPU" is multiple cabinets its a mainframe Things that have never worked are speed of memory and speed of computer. You might use I/O capacity versus the compute capacity, perhaps as a MIPS/MEGABYTE ratio. If the value is over 5 its a micro, less than five but over 1 its a mini, and under 1 and its a mainframe. --Chuck From doug at blinkenlights.com Fri Dec 15 13:28:34 2000 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <200012151958.MAA08628@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Jim Strickland wrote: > And as for reliability, let me draw my line in the sand and say that I think > using PCs for mission critical servers is not a good idea. Even if you put > a decent OS on them - Linux, Solaris, FreeBSD, etc, they're not designed or > supported the way a real mini or mainframe is. 'course the flip side is you > can keep another machine around for a spare for a reasonable cost... Putting a few PCs together into a scalable robust cluster is the basis for quite a bit of mission critical stuff these days. I think even IBM is starting to get it: http://www.infoworld.com/cgi-bin/displayStory.pl?99039.ecsuperlinux.htm Here's some info on the linux high availability project: http://linux-ha.org/ -- Doug From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 15 14:43:20 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... Message-ID: Yeah, the mainframe is obsolete... riiiight... Gee, that hasn't been said before in the last 30 years has it? Sure, maybe the role of the mainframe has diminished to a large degree, but they still are useful and powerful machines. If you want to run a huge website without it crashing, and have thousands and thousands of people accessing it, buy a mainframe. There was recently an article in VARBusiness I believe about .com businesses replacing Suns and the like with mainframes because of the need for reliability and the fact that they went from many many boxes to only one.. An example that I remember was a company that replaced around 500 NT servers with a single System/390.. And while I haven't seen the newest IBM mainframes in person, I have seen a fairly recent System/390, and the whole thing is only about 5' x 5' or so, and not all that tall either... Compared to my 4381, that's a huge shrinkage, since just the processor takes up more space than that almost! And mainframes now use standard disk drives, instead of things like my IBM 3880, which is, like the 4381, 6' tall, 6' wide, and 4' deep, and weighs in at around 1000 or more pounds. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 15 14:53:48 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: from Miller Scott Contr 30CS/FTI at "Dec 15, 0 06:28:37 pm" Message-ID: <200012152053.MAA10464@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I was thinking about the possibility of building a miniature C-64... you > could probably squeeze the whole thing into an FPGA, but the VIC II and SID > chips might be a problem. It'd probably be easier to use an off the shelf > embedded controler and adapt the VICE emulator. A 2 or 3 inch color LCD > would make a nice monitor, but fabricating the miniature keyboard could be > difficult. You could always use a cheap membrane-style keyboard, I guess. > How about a 1541 disk drive that takes smartmedia cards? VIC-II and SID are perpetually problematic, especially SID since it's part analogue (and probably so is VIC, for that matter). The timings are well known but the interactions between registers are sometimes unpredictable (but rest assured out there is a game that depends on that particular interaction). Emulator writers have torn their hair out for years thanks to Commodore's loose hardware design philosophy. You would need a very large and complex FPGA to fully emulate the range of behaviours these remarkable (and bizarre) chips demonstrate. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous. ---------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 15 13:48:46 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3CF@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Strange... my trace of the addresses didn't point to a site in Crete... > > Seriously, I never even received it- Groupshield Exchange always detects > this stuff and puts it in quarantine; the original attachment was replaced > by a message alerting me to what happened. > > Of course, as the sysadmin, I'd already received a "ticket" informing me > that an infected message had come in and was taken care of. > > Buggy, and difficult to administer, but the NAI Total Virus Defense > package hasn't slipped and let anything through yet... I read my mail using PINE on my linux server over a telnet session. It has automatic anti-virus features built-in :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 15 13:51:54 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <200012151958.MAA08628@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Jim Strickland wrote: > in the world for modern mainframes - IBM still makes them - because > some jobs require more computing horsepower and reliability than > modern pcs can deliver, and hooking one clydsdale to a big job instead > of 400 squirrels is alot easier and cost effective to manage. I think it would be much more entertaining to watch 400 squirrels. Put my vote in for the squirrels :) > And as for reliability, let me draw my line in the sand and say that I > think using PCs for mission critical servers is not a good idea. > Even if you put a decent OS on them - Linux, Solaris, FreeBSD, etc, > they're not designed or supported the way a real mini or mainframe is. > 'course the flip side is you can keep another machine around for a > spare for a reasonable cost... You can also get fairly robust PCs, with dual hot-swap power supplies, dual (or more) CPUs, mirrored hard drives (or RAID), error-correcting RAM, etc. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 15 15:17:57 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Tossing more than cookies In-Reply-To: <3A3A32A1.AE45590E@coin.org> References: Message-ID: >> mainyard where everything gets dumped that doesn't have any special value, >> and said clean it up, EVERYTHING. Tuesday the 6th truck sized dumpster got > >Which college? University of California, Irvine. I am sure something similar is going on at most college campus' from time to time. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Dec 15 16:16:34 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215122112.03005900@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > There are lots of ways to "slice" this question. I have at various time used: > if it runs on one 110V wall socket its a micro > if it takes 220 and/or three phase its a mini > if it takes 440 and its own voltage consditioning system its a > mainframe > Then there was > if the "CPU" is one chip its a micro > if the "CPU" is multiple chips/boards its a mini > if the "CPU" is multiple cabinets its a mainframe > Things that have never worked are speed of memory and speed of computer. > You might use I/O capacity versus the compute capacity, perhaps as a > MIPS/MEGABYTE ratio. If the value is over 5 its a micro, less than five but > over 1 its a mini, and under 1 and its a mainframe. Another obsolete classic: Micro: you can pick it up and carry it Mini: you need a handtruck Mainframe: you need a forklift and a union moving crew -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 15 15:23:32 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: VCF East Survey Message-ID: In planning for a VCF East Coast, I wanted to take a poll from folks as to where the ideal location would be. I am currently thinking that somewhere in the New England area would work the best, but what do I know, since I've never been there (besides passing through the airports). In deciding on a locale, I'd like to keep these criteria in mind: 1) Availability of an affordable location suitable for the Festival 2) Geographical proximity to the most number of potential attendees 3) Proximity to major airports 4) Availability of decent accomodations 5) Weather 6) Historical relevance (i.e. near Route 128, as a parallel to doing the main Festival in the Silicon Valley) So if those who are entertaining the notion of going to a VCF East could mosey on over to the following URL and fill in the survey I'd be most appreciative. http://www.vintage.org/survey.html This will help me decide on a place to host the first VCF East. As far as timing, it will have to fall somewhere in between VCF Europa (April 28-29, 2001) and VCF 5.0 (Fall 2001). Basically, late Spring, early Fall. Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 15 12:19:10 2000 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? In-Reply-To: <67.d34e5a6.276b8f71@aol.com> Message-ID: <20001215230956.OIBC16490.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> > From: LFessen106@aol.com > Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:14:57 EST > Subject: Re: Virus/worm? > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > In a message dated 12/15/00 10:11:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, > rmeenaks@olf.com writes: > > > Apparently a virus as NAV responded: > > > > Sender of the infected attachment: null@domain2.bigpond.com > > Subject of the message: > > One or more attachments were quarantined. > > Attachment CAHFPJCA.EXE was Quarantined for the following reasons: > > Virus W95.Hybris.gen was found. Not what this is supposed to be when clicking on that email in lookout. Clicking on that message and lookout opens and runs everything it find in it. Wrong. More below. > > > > Ram > One of the many reasons I run Linux as my OS of choice is so I can chuckle > robustly at these virus attachments. > -Linc Fessenden Running win9x and pegasus mail, it's quality freeware and proper email program in a sense. Mine has no virus scanner but I watch everything that not mine data moving in and out of my room. I saw that same email address and looked at attachment displayed as list of files and this one is .exe and I didn't do anything because it look funny and suspicious. It wasn't normal email message because I can't get full header and no email and that item is a file only not attachment. Cheers, Wizard From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 15 12:19:10 2000 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? In-Reply-To: <67.d34e5a6.276b8f71@aol.com> Message-ID: <20001215231032.ERUI1373.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> > From: LFessen106@aol.com > Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 10:14:57 EST > Subject: Re: Virus/worm? > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > In a message dated 12/15/00 10:11:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, > rmeenaks@olf.com writes: > > > Apparently a virus as NAV responded: > > > > Sender of the infected attachment: null@domain2.bigpond.com > > Subject of the message: > > One or more attachments were quarantined. > > Attachment CAHFPJCA.EXE was Quarantined for the following reasons: > > Virus W95.Hybris.gen was found. Not what this is supposed to be when clicking on that email in lookout. Clicking on that message and lookout opens and runs everything it find in it. Wrong. More below. > > > > Ram > One of the many reasons I run Linux as my OS of choice is so I can chuckle > robustly at these virus attachments. > -Linc Fessenden Running win9x and pegasus mail, it's quality freeware and proper email program in a sense. Mine has no virus scanner but I watch everything that not mine data moving in and out of my room. I saw that same email address and looked at attachment displayed as list of files and this one is .exe and I didn't do anything because it look funny and suspicious. It wasn't normal email message because I can't get full header and no email and that item is a file only not attachment. Cheers, Wizard From geneb at deltasoft.com Fri Dec 15 18:12:33 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > modern pcs can deliver, and hooking one clydsdale to a big job instead > > of 400 squirrels is alot easier and cost effective to manage. > > I think it would be much more entertaining to watch 400 squirrels. Put my > vote in for the squirrels :) C|N>K. You Bastard. :) g. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Dec 15 17:23:24 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3D4@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> 'Smatter of fact, so do I, for my _personal_ e-mail... Actually, I don't always end up "previewing" my mail with Pine, but lately, I have been. Ultimately, if I don't delete the messages from Pine, I download the remaining messages with Pegasus Mail, which similarly seems immune to all these Lookout virii. BTW, I'm using Pine (4.31?) under Solaris (my ISP says they'll always provide shell access, and I'm one of the few people who turned off the Lynx-based menu system for the shell (Korn). I like Bash, perhaps I should switch shells... dang, I'm drifting OT again. C Ya! -dq > ---------- > From: Sellam Ismail > Reply To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 2:48 PM > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Virus/worm? > > On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > > Strange... my trace of the addresses didn't point to a site in Crete... > > > > Seriously, I never even received it- Groupshield Exchange always detects > > this stuff and puts it in quarantine; the original attachment was > replaced > > by a message alerting me to what happened. > > > > Of course, as the sysadmin, I'd already received a "ticket" informing me > > that an infected message had come in and was taken care of. > > > > Buggy, and difficult to administer, but the NAI Total Virus Defense > > package hasn't slipped and let anything through yet... > > I read my mail using PINE on my linux server over a telnet session. It has > automatic anti-virus features built-in :) > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 15 17:20:16 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215122112.03005900@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Dec 15, 0 12:26:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1032 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001215/f155d03c/attachment.ksh From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Dec 15 17:25:55 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3D5@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> I just spec'd a new fileserver for our office: Dell PowerEdge 2400 Dual hot-swap power supplies 6-bay hot-swappable drives RAID 1 & 5 512MB ECC SDRAM My boss will sh*t when he finds out we're buying a mainframe... :-) -dq > ---------- > From: Sellam Ismail > Reply To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 2:51 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: The debate on what per say is a mini... > > On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Jim Strickland wrote: > > > in the world for modern mainframes - IBM still makes them - because > > some jobs require more computing horsepower and reliability than > > modern pcs can deliver, and hooking one clydsdale to a big job instead > > of 400 squirrels is alot easier and cost effective to manage. > > I think it would be much more entertaining to watch 400 squirrels. Put my > vote in for the squirrels :) > > > And as for reliability, let me draw my line in the sand and say that I > > think using PCs for mission critical servers is not a good idea. > > Even if you put a decent OS on them - Linux, Solaris, FreeBSD, etc, > > they're not designed or supported the way a real mini or mainframe is. > > 'course the flip side is you can keep another machine around for a > > spare for a reasonable cost... > > You can also get fairly robust PCs, with dual hot-swap power supplies, > dual (or more) CPUs, mirrored hard drives (or RAID), error-correcting > RAM, etc. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger > http://www.vintage.org > From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 15 16:41:28 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" at Dec 15, 2000 02:16:34 PM Message-ID: <200012152241.OAA05714@shell1.aracnet.com> > On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > > There are lots of ways to "slice" this question. I have at various time used: > > if it runs on one 110V wall socket its a micro > > if it takes 220 and/or three phase its a mini > > if it takes 440 and its own voltage consditioning system its a > > mainframe > > Then there was > > if the "CPU" is one chip its a micro > > if the "CPU" is multiple chips/boards its a mini > > if the "CPU" is multiple cabinets its a mainframe > > Things that have never worked are speed of memory and speed of computer. > > You might use I/O capacity versus the compute capacity, perhaps as a > > MIPS/MEGABYTE ratio. If the value is over 5 its a micro, less than five but > > over 1 its a mini, and under 1 and its a mainframe. > > Another obsolete classic: > Micro: you can pick it up and carry it > Mini: you need a handtruck > Mainframe: you need a forklift and a union moving crew > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com I always have liked the following: Micro: can sit on a desk Mini: doesn't require special power or cooling/airconditioning Main: requires special power and cooling I see the original poster apparently wants to classify all VAXen as either Mini's or Main's. Sorry, but I've got VAXen that are a lot smaller than some of my PC's/Mac's. OTOH, I wouldn't call my VAXstation 4000/VLC a Micro, I'd call it a Workstation :^) Now there is a definition that's gotten really grey, the difference between a Micro, a PC, and a Workstation. Let's face it, no one is going to come up with an answer that everyone agrees with. Zane Zane From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 15 12:15:21 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <431.384T1050T11554879optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >And I still haven't figured out what that computer is in _Electric >Dreams_, although I suspect it's a kludged up dealy for visual effect. Why, it's a Pinetree, of course! ;-) I'd love to get one of those graphics boards, myself... =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Anv?nd g?rna mitt staket, fast du beh?ver nog fr?scha upp det lite. Lupin III, Lupin den otrolige (Lupin III vs. fukusei ningen), TMS 1978 From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 15 12:09:40 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: TV cards/WOZ disks In-Reply-To: <00Dec15.105104gmt.46096@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <751.384T2000T11496085optimus@canit.se> Adrian Graham skrev: >It's the official C= D23 to red/white/yellow RCA type connectors to plug >into a 1084 monitor or any CVBS supporting monitor like the Philips CM8833. It would be rather silly venture to plug a composite signal into a 1084 or an 8833. Granted, it would certainly work (I do that, for technical reasons), but these monitors will happily accept RGB, and should be fed accordingly. BTW, there is already a monochrome composite out on the A500, so you could plug it into any household appliance, assuming you'll be happy with greyscale. If not, get an A520 RF modulator for RF and composite out, or if you've got an RGB monitor, wire or buy a fitting cable. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Give your child mental blocks for Christmas. From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 15 16:24:09 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: GS disks an' that. In-Reply-To: <00Dec14.150621gmt.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <895.384T450T14044087optimus@canit.se> Adrian Graham skrev: >> From: "Iggy Drougge" >> Subject: RE: First personal computer nostalgia >> >> I'm sorry, but I feel it's nitpicking time... >> I've never heard of an Atari 1050ST before, nor of a 1 MB >> hard drive fitted to >> an ST. OTOH, there is the Atari 1040ST, which had 1 MB of RAM. >And you *could* get HDs for them too; can't remember their product >designation OTTOMH but a swift look at the Atari Historical Society should >tell you. Maybe it was a Falcon! You certainly could, and I've never claimed otherwise. The Atari designation should be SH-**, IIRC. I've never heard of Atari or any other hardware producer supplying a 1MB HD for the ST, though. It seems really pointless, considering that it would be the same size as the built-in disk drive. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. The most useful program will be continually improved until it is useless. From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 15 17:27:13 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2915.385T650T274175optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >[N1500] >> >> Is this a "VCR" system? >> >> >That depends on what you mean by 'VCR system' (and Philips themselves >> >changed the meaning a few times). >> >> Pre-Video2000 arcane square cassette home video system. >Yes, that's the N1500 alright :-) Surely there were other models, too? >> very much, thank you. OTOH, I've got a Sony Betacam cassette sporting the >> numbers 500 here (I haven't got a recorder to test it, it's just for pre- >> emptive pruposes). Could it really hold 500 minutes on such a single-side= >> d, >> miniscule cassette? >I thought the number on Betamax cassettes gave the length in feet or >something. Certaily I remember using L750 cassettes, and they were not >750 minutes long. Indeed there is no correlation. I found a lot of ? tapes today, and the 500 is only 225 minutes, IIRC. We can't have that, can we? >> >The electronics, though is rather complicated. Part of this is due to th= >> e >> >fact that the machines are old enough that there weren't single-chip >> >ASICs for many functions -- there are a lot of fairly simple chips and a >> >couple of microcontrollers inside. The electronics is all plug-in cards, >> >with functions like IF strip, audio, luminance, chrominance, tape servo, >> >head servo, timer, tuner control, etc. Yes I do have the service manual. >> >> Ooh, I love plug-in architectures in home electronics. Once disassembled = >I love it for _everything_. True, but they don't show up as often in home electronics. These aren't built to be servicable. >> But wasn't V2000 a tad late in the race? IIRC, it came in '82, when home = >Yes... (like the 6809 CPU, and various other good designs) The 6809 wasn't too late for the 8-bit micro race, was it? >History has shown time and again that you can either develop a poor >design and get it out into the marketplace, or spend some time doing the >job properly and be late. And, alas, the early designs always seem to >'win' :-( :-(. Mind you, Philips did both, didn't they? The VCR was the firs thome video system, wasn't it? I wouldn't know if it was a poor design, though. >> Does anyone manufacture modern V2k systems? =3D) >Not that I know of :-(. The main (only) manufacturers were Philips and >Grundig. I've seen service manuals for both (although the only actual >machines I've opened up are Philips), and it appears that the Philips >machines were much better built. Oh, where did I put that electronics mag with reviews of the entire first batch of Video2000 recorders... Didn't Bang & Olufsen make one, too? Of course, I suspect they used a mechanism from one of the bigger manufacturers. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Ed ecco un altro esempio in cui le sigle italiane e francesi sono uguali ... non avrei mai creduto di poter un giorno dire una cosa del genere, ma secondo me Crostina D'Avena canta meglio. Tacchan s?gar den franska signaturen till Creamy Mami From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 15 17:23:00 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Olivetti PC1 Message-ID: <725.385T0T233981optimus@canit.se> I'm looking through some old issue sof Your computer, and in the october '87 issue, the cover story is Olivetti's attempt at a home PC, the PC1. Why someone would like to have an IBM compatible at home is beyond me, but look at the design! It's difficult to describe, but very 80s, very Italian. Extremely compact, CPU and keyboard integrated into a home micro-ish console, with 3,5" drives protruding from the top of the keyboard. Runs on a NEC V40 and has got a CGA adapter. Apparently the sound is "hi-fi". But look at the design! Drool. Was this radical design ever released, though? Has anyone got a PC1? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. /"\ \ / ASCII Ribbon X Campaign Against / \ HTML Mail! From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 15 16:51:42 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3D4@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > BTW, I'm using Pine (4.31?) under Solaris (my ISP says they'll always > provide shell access, and I'm one of the few people who turned off the > Lynx-based menu system for the shell (Korn). My "ISP" will always have shell access too. It's good to have your own Linux server :) I use Pegasus on my lame Win98 box for my personal mail. I've had troubled configuring it properly for IMAP since the first day I installed it. For some reason it shuffles through every directory on my Linux server when it goes to check "my" IMAP folders. Why is it doing this? (Yes, I know, OT...but what the hell, it's Friday!) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 15 18:07:41 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: <2915.385T650T274175optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Dec 15, 0 11:58:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2302 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001216/a06bcde7/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Dec 15 18:26:09 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Anyone know this guy Message-ID: <01e301c066f6$cabdd3c0$c0731fd1@default> In Wednesday's USA Today there was a article on Silicon Valley and it talked about a guy named Gordon Bell and the fact that he is helping create a computer history museum in the valley. The paper says he works for Microsoft Research and is doing this on the side. It then goes on tell about some of the collection that he has in his warehouse. Short but nice article. John Keys From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 15 17:20:32 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <431.384T1050T11554879optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 15 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >And I still haven't figured out what that computer is in _Electric > >Dreams_, although I suspect it's a kludged up dealy for visual effect. > > Why, it's a Pinetree, of course! ;-) > I'd love to get one of those graphics boards, myself... =) What in tarnations is a Pinetree? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Dec 15 16:49:23 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Anyone know this guy In-Reply-To: <01e301c066f6$cabdd3c0$c0731fd1@default> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215164710.01f5a008@208.226.86.10> Hmmm, no smiley face. Gordon Bell designed several of the PDP series architectures at Digital. He's something of a computer architecture legend. He spoke at the 2nd VCF (I got his autograph! :-) and is the director emeritus I believe of the Computer Museum History Center that is based at Moffet Field California. His wife Gwen is very active at the museum as well. --Chuck At 06:26 PM 12/15/2000 -0600, you wrote: >In Wednesday's USA Today there was a article on Silicon Valley and it >talked about a guy named Gordon Bell and the fact that he is helping >create a computer history museum in the valley. The paper says he works >for Microsoft Research and is doing this on the side. It then goes on >tell about some of the collection that he has in his warehouse. Short >but nice article. >John Keys From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 15 17:45:29 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Anyone know this guy In-Reply-To: <01e301c066f6$cabdd3c0$c0731fd1@default> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > In Wednesday's USA Today there was a article on Silicon Valley and it > talked about a guy named Gordon Bell and the fact that he is helping > create a computer history museum in the valley. The paper says he works > for Microsoft Research and is doing this on the side. It then goes on > tell about some of the collection that he has in his warehouse. Short > but nice article. Who? Gordon Bell? Oh yeah, that guy. He's only considered the Father of the Mini-computer and is only responsible for most of the DEC PDP series of machines and the VAX. You know, minor contributions :) The computer museum they are talking about is The Computer Museum History Center, which is already quite established. http://www.computerhistory.org Gwen Bell (Gordon's wife) is really responsible for founding the museum back in the early 80s. It started out as the DEC museum and then became a separate entity. It doesn't seem the writer did very good research for this article but then again USA Today has never been known for exemplary journalism :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 15 18:53:17 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Anyone know this guy In-Reply-To: <01e301c066f6$cabdd3c0$c0731fd1@default> from "John R. Keys Jr." at Dec 15, 2000 06:26:09 PM Message-ID: <200012160053.QAA16941@shell1.aracnet.com> > > In Wednesday's USA Today there was a article on Silicon Valley and it > talked about a guy named Gordon Bell and the fact that he is helping > create a computer history museum in the valley. The paper says he works > for Microsoft Research and is doing this on the side. It then goes on > tell about some of the collection that he has in his warehouse. Short > but nice article. > John Keys > When you say "Anyone know this guy", you're joking, RIGHT? Here. http://www.research.microsoft.com/users/GBell/default.htm Zane From cbajpai at mediaone.net Fri Dec 15 18:59:20 2000 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Anyone know this guy In-Reply-To: <01e301c066f6$cabdd3c0$c0731fd1@default> Message-ID: Is it *the* Gordon Bell of VAX fame? -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of John R. Keys Jr. Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 7:26 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Anyone know this guy In Wednesday's USA Today there was a article on Silicon Valley and it talked about a guy named Gordon Bell and the fact that he is helping create a computer history museum in the valley. The paper says he works for Microsoft Research and is doing this on the side. It then goes on tell about some of the collection that he has in his warehouse. Short but nice article. John Keys From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 15 19:21:28 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Dec 15, 0 03:20:32 pm" Message-ID: <200012160121.RAA10314@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > >And I still haven't figured out what that computer is in _Electric > > >Dreams_, although I suspect it's a kludged up dealy for visual effect. > > > > Why, it's a Pinetree, of course! ;-) > > I'd love to get one of those graphics boards, myself... =) > > What in tarnations is a Pinetree? Yeah, whassat? It's cool-looking, whatever it is. (Oh, wait, that was Virginia Madsen when she was younger. Sorry. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Proponents of other opinions will be merrily beaten to a bloody pulp. ------ From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Fri Dec 15 19:41:08 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <3A3A72AF.579806AC@home.net> from Neil Cherry at "Dec 15, 2000 02:36:15 pm" Message-ID: <200012160141.RAA29994@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > > As for mainframes, well, since you can buy a more powerful computer for what > > it would cost to operate a mainframe of yesteryear for just one day, I guess > > nobody will miss 'em. > > For instance, I purchased a MicroVax 3400 which I'm going to put in > working order. I also have a VS3100, I purchased that because it was > inexpensive and I could experiment on it first. I just want to be more > knowledgable with the MV3400 before I start really playing with it. Am I the only one that considers MicroVaxen and Micro-11s to be microcomputers? Lets get our distinctions straight. If it's smaller than a desk, or doesn't take at least 15 vertical inches in an 19" rack it's a micro, right? Eric From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Dec 15 19:28:15 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Virus/worm? In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3D4@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Dec 15, 0 06:23:24 pm" Message-ID: <200012160128.RAA11624@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > BTW, I'm using Pine (4.31?) under Solaris (my ISP says they'll always > provide shell access, and I'm one of the few people who turned off the > Lynx-based menu system for the shell (Korn). > > I like Bash, perhaps I should switch shells... dang, I'm drifting OT > again. elm and tcsh forever. And vi. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Dihydrogen monoxide -- it may be in your drink right now! www.dhmo.org ----- From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 15 18:47:56 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215122112.03005900@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <859.385T2800T1076293optimus@canit.se> Chuck McManis skrev: >There are lots of ways to "slice" this question. I have at various time used: > if it runs on one 110V wall socket its a micro > if it takes 220 and/or three phase its a mini My, I've suddenly got a whole lot of minis around here! Thre only exception I can think of is my DECstation 5000/200, which for some reason seems to be stuck in 110V country. > if the "CPU" is one chip its a micro BTW, how micro is a MicroVAX? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. I installed 7.6.1 on my Color Classic too. It has 6mb ram now, and no FPU yet. Things really slowed down when I installed the Appearance extention and control panel. But now the GUI is OS8ish! ;) That little creep is so cute, I'll probably leave instructions to have it made my urn. It'll hold my ashes, and still continue to function as a computer ;) iVan From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 15 18:50:25 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <541.385T1250T1104495optimus@canit.se> In "Jumping jack flash", much of the plot takes place in a terminal room. Sperry's name is mentioned a whole lot, too. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. When cherry tree blooms, people go and walk there, eat dumpling, bring sake and talk each other such things as "A superb view!" and "Full of spring here", and they become very happily and cheerful. But this is a lie. People gather below cherry trees and get drunk, vomit, fight, which are happening since the old days of Edo period. From long time ago. THE FULL OF CHERRY BOOLMS, CHAPTER 1 From ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE-SMTP at cmh.edu Fri Dec 15 20:09:41 2000 From: ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE-SMTP at cmh.edu (ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE-SMTP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Antigen found W32/Hybris-B virus Message-ID: <6AE7FB95CB8ED411994000D0B782DD85E539@exchange1.cmh.edu> Antigen for Exchange found CAHFPJCA.EXE infected with W32/Hybris-B virus. The file is currently Deleted. The message, "classiccmp-digest V1 #457", was sent from owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org (classiccmp-digest) and was discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound located at CMHMAIL/CMHMAIL/EXCHANGE-SMTP. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Fri Dec 15 20:18:12 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: W95.Hybris.gen being distributed from your network. References: <09134184019029@domain2.bigpond.com> Message-ID: <000f01c06706$736d9500$0100a8c0@helpdesk> It appears that one of your users has a trojan. Please clue him up. Regards Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Marks College geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au headers follow Return-Path: Received: from opal.tseinc.com (209.83.143.19) by MAIL.STMARKS.PP.CATHOLIC.EDU.AU (MX C5.2 Vn8j) with ESMTP for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 20:01:36 +0930 Received: (from majordom@localhost) by opal.tseinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA26432 for classiccmp-classiccmp-org-outgoing; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 03:16:22 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org) X-Authentication-Warning: opal.tseinc.com: majordom set sender to owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org using -f Received: from teapot23.domain2.bigpond.com (teapot23.domain2.bigpond.com [139.134.5.165]) by opal.tseinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id DAA26427 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 03:16:18 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from null@domain2.bigpond.com) From: null@domain2.bigpond.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by teapot23.domain2.bigpond.com (NTMail 3.02.13) with ESMTP id ra311003 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:13:41 +1000 Received: from DVBH-T-003-p-1-48.tmns.net.au ([203.54.1.48]) by mail2.bigpond.com (Claudes-Dynamic-MailRouter V2.9c 3/2768515); 15 Dec 2000 19:13:24 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="--VE34T6JW1EBKDIBS5A3OP2V8X" Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:13:41 +1000 Message-ID: <09134184019029@domain2.bigpond.com> To: undisclosed-recipients: ; Sender: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 7:43 PM From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Dec 15 20:19:36 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001215201630.026c1d40@pc> At 06:28 PM 12/15/00 +0000, Miller Scott Contr 30CS/FTI wrote: >Speaking of VICE, in a fit of boredom I set up an AlphaStation with VNC to >launch remote C-64 emulation sessions, sort of a C-64 ASP. You just fire up >your VNC client, point it at the server, and you get an emulated C-64 with a >bunch of old game disks. I haven't had it running since I moved over the >summer, but if anyone's interested I can fire it up and publish the address. An Alphastation running which OS? And VNC doesn't handle sound, does it? Hmm, maybe it should. And you know about the built-in VNC web server, right? You don't even need a client, just a browser. Emulation ASP not only sounds like fun, but it's probably a more meaty business model than your average dot-com. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Dec 15 20:08:08 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: References: <200012142008.MAA21522@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001215200525.026963b0@pc> At 02:06 PM 12/14/00 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >On Thu, 14 Dec 2000, Dwight Elvey wrote: > >> I just saw the coolest storage media. It was a 1 gig >> hard drive that was about 1 square inch and about 1/8 >> inch thick. >Holy shit. That's amazing. I wonder, given the size, if these are less >prone to physical crashes than larger drives are? Yeah, they've been putting hard drives in PCMCIA cards for a while now. Digital cameras will be much more fun with HDs in them. Of course, the RAM card makers don't mind selling CompactFlash and SmartMedia cards. Digital cameras are getting so incredibly inexpensive, I'd guess we're about seven years from them being included in cereal boxes. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Dec 15 20:23:43 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Tossing more than cookies In-Reply-To: References: <3A3A32A1.AE45590E@coin.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001215202258.026c12d0@pc> At 01:17 PM 12/15/00 -0800, Mike Ford wrote: >>> mainyard where everything gets dumped that doesn't have any special value, >>> and said clean it up, EVERYTHING. Tuesday the 6th truck sized dumpster got >University of California, Irvine. I am sure something similar is going on >at most college campus' from time to time. Yikes. Keep an eye out for Terak stuff. They had some. - John www.threedee.com/jcm/ From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Fri Dec 15 20:43:29 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... References: Message-ID: <00a601c06709$fbd9dea0$0100a8c0@helpdesk> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 8:46 AM Subject: Re: The debate on what per say is a mini... > Another obsolete classic: > Micro: you can pick it up and carry it > Mini: you need a handtruck Ok, a Vax 6000 is probably best defined as a mini, but the only handcart I ever found that would cope with it was one my grandfather made when he was doing his fitter and turner certification in 1923. Solid steel, including the wheels. Unfortunately the ground did not cooperate and it tended to sink into it up to the axles. That was just the system unit, some of the other bits are heavier. > Mainframe: you need a forklift and a union moving crew Well, six mates and a ute work as well, (with a carton of Hahn Ice for lubrication of course) Uh, a ute (utility) is Ozspeak for something similar to what our North American friends usually call a 'pickup', though a ute is somewhat smaller. (Think car with a cargo bay where the back seats would be, roughly 1/2 tonner). Have moved this system twice in this manner, and a complete cluster, though I cheated and had the factory (Fauldings) load it onto a one-tonner (more like the true US 'pickup') and trailer for me. But the six guys at the otherend worked nearly as well.... As you said, size/weight as a defining point, is unreliable. Cheers Geoff From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 15 20:09:37 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001215200525.026963b0@pc> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: > Digital cameras are getting so incredibly inexpensive, > I'd guess we're about seven years from them being included > in cereal boxes. That'd be cool but by the same economical logic we'd be getting free radios in cereal boxes today :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 15 20:10:44 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:42 2005 Subject: Antigen found W32/Hybris-B virus In-Reply-To: <6AE7FB95CB8ED411994000D0B782DD85E539@exchange1.cmh.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, ANTIGEN_EXCHANGE-SMTP wrote: > Antigen for Exchange found CAHFPJCA.EXE infected with W32/Hybris-B virus. > The file is currently Deleted. The message, "classiccmp-digest V1 #457", > was > sent from owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org (classiccmp-digest) and was > discovered in IMC Queues\Inbound > located at CMHMAIL/CMHMAIL/EXCHANGE-SMTP. Great, now we're getting automated anti-virus software announcements. The computers have all gone mad. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Dec 15 21:31:41 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 questions Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215192522.028b0bc0@208.226.86.10> I got another PDP-11/34 today, this one is a bit more modern but with less stuff in it. It has an RL11 interface connected to an RL02 drive. It has the newer switching PSU (vs the original boat anchor PSU) and I powered it up with some SLU's installed for load. It came up fine and all the voltages are spot on. I put all the cards back in and confirmed I could start and stop the CPU from the control panel. However I don't know enough about operating the 11/34's operator panel to be able to input a program. CNTRL/BOOT starts the bootstrap. I opened up the RL02 drive and it has a pack marked "RSX-11M 3.2SYS" in it. I vacuumed out all the dust I could, checked around and it seems fine. So I buttoned it back up and tried to load the pack. It powers on (the fan blows) but popping the LOAD switch has no effect. No lights (not even fault) light up and the drive doesn't seem to spin at all. (yes it is terminated) So my first question is, what to check on the RL02 to see why it may not be spinning up? The console SLU has a male DB25 on it. Since I didn't have a compatible terminal where it was I don't know yet what the output, if any is, to the serial line. Suggestions? Steps for entering a simple program into the programmers console? --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Dec 15 21:35:37 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001215200525.026963b0@pc> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215193238.028b2ab0@208.226.86.10> You mean you didn't get yours? --Chuck (Seriously though, I once saw the "component stereo" you got by signing up for Sport's Illustrated at a garage sale. It was an AM/FM radio with two speakers about the 1/3 size of a disposable camera.) Regarding cheap digital cameras, they are cheap because they suck. I knuckled under and got a "real" Digicam (the Olympus C-3030Z) to replace my nearly on-topic Minolta Dimage V) and I must say, the difference is remarkable (they both cost about the same, and the Olympus is cheaper in inflation adjusted dollars) At 06:09 PM 12/15/00 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: > > > Digital cameras are getting so incredibly inexpensive, > > I'd guess we're about seven years from them being included > > in cereal boxes. > >That'd be cool but by the same economical logic we'd be getting free >radios in cereal boxes today :) > >Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Sat Dec 16 03:44:21 2000 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Z80 Datasheets Message-ID: Hello all, With the recent discussion on Z80 datasheets, I thought I'd chime in... There's a site, www.freetradezone.com, that has a 12,000,000 component database, and has datasheets for many of them. The site is a free registration, but it does take forever for them to mail you a password. Please note that I have no stake in this site... I snagged the complete Z80 datasheet set. If anyone has a spot that can handle the bandwidth on downloads, I'll gladly send them along. They are all in .PDF format... Also, If anyone is looking for a datasheet on some odd part that hasn't been made in 20 yrs., send me an email... I can't guarantee instant (or even slow :-) ) response, but I will look it up, and fire off the datasheet if it's not too big... Rich B. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 15 21:47:16 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: A couple of quick SGI Personal Iris/Power Series questions... Message-ID: OK, having today found a Power Series 4D/210VGX in a twin tower enclosure that I plan on buying, (not sure how much to offer though, but hey), I got motivated to mess with my dear old doorstop, err I mean Personal Iris 4D/35... Except I discovered that it's a 4D/25, and that therefore it was dumb of me to just assume the 2 PI's that were at the place I got it were the same... I chose the one I have because it had a nicer case, and I stole the little top door from the other one because the one I got was missing it.. and guess what, the door says "Personal Iris 4D/35".. so here's the second question.. does anyone have a 4D/25 door they'd part with? (Or for that matter skins for an Origin 200? but thats OT).. Now on to the next question.. I also accquired a 950-0801 keyboard and before risking the poor little PI I want to be sure this is the correct keyboard... Finally, does anyone have a copy of IRIX 5.3 they'd part with/copy, preferrably on QIC tapes? Oh yeah, if anyone has any PI manuals or manuals for that Power Series, I could use those too.. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 15 21:10:04 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <545.385T200T2503461optimus@canit.se> Sellam Ismail skrev: >On 15 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: >> >And I still haven't figured out what that computer is in _Electric >> >Dreams_, although I suspect it's a kludged up dealy for visual effect. >> >> Why, it's a Pinetree, of course! ;-) >> I'd love to get one of those graphics boards, myself... =) >What in tarnations is a Pinetree? A mix-up between Apple and Apricot. Wasn't the computer called Pinetree in the movie? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. A liberal is someone too poor to be conservative, and too rich to be a communist. From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 15 20:47:10 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <2867.385T500T2273833optimus@canit.se> Tony Duell skrev: >> >> >> Is this a "VCR" system? >> >> >> >> >That depends on what you mean by 'VCR system' (and Philips themselves >> >> >changed the meaning a few times). >> >> >> >> Pre-Video2000 arcane square cassette home video system. >> >> >Yes, that's the N1500 alright :-) >> >> Surely there were other models, too? >There was a the N1700, which used the same cassette, but ran the tape >more slowly to give a longer recording time. Alas the machines were >totally incompatible AFAIK -- an N1500 couldn't play an N1700 tape and an >N1700 couldn't play an N1500 tape. Hm, so IOW video rental was out of the question? >> >> But wasn't V2000 a tad late in the race? IIRC, it came in '82, when ho= >> me =3D >> >> >Yes... (like the 6809 CPU, and various other good designs) >> >> The 6809 wasn't too late for the 8-bit micro race, was it? >IMHO yes. It came out significantly later than the Z80 or 6502. And >although the 6809 is (IMHO) the most elegant of the 8 bit micros (it's a >lot nicer than either the 6502 or Z80, for example), it wasn't widely used. But several early micros use the 6809, don't they? Look at the Dragon and the Tandy. It may have missed the early hacker scene (though I loaned a book at the library a while ago detailing how to build your own 6809-based computer from scratch), but was it too late for the consumer micro scene? >> >History has shown time and again that you can either develop a poor >> >design and get it out into the marketplace, or spend some time doing the >> >job properly and be late. And, alas, the early designs always seem to >> >'win' :-( :-(. >> >> Mind you, Philips did both, didn't they? The VCR was the firs thome video >> system, wasn't it? I wouldn't know if it was a poor design, though. >The original Philips machines (N1500, N1700) were very well made, and >worked well. I think what killed them (cetainly the N1500) was the >limited recording time -- 1 hour per cassette. This wasn't long enough to >time shift a film (movie), for example. Ouch, no. >The second time round Philips were determined to cure this problem -- >hence the V2000 with 4 hours recording per side. Of course since the >machines came out later than the VHS or Betamax units, V2000 is now only >a memory... Alas. >> Oh, where did I put that electronics mag with reviews of the entire first >> batch of Video2000 recorders... Didn't Bang & Olufsen make one, too? Of >Most earlier B&O video recorders (including early VHS models) were actually >Philips machines. As were some other makes -- for example Dynatron in the >UK sold a colour TV with built in VCR in the mid 1970s. The TV was based >on the Philips G11 chassis and the VCR was an N1500. My, that's early. Hm, I'll have to look that magazine up. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "It's better to have loved and lost, than to be gang raped in a Turkish prison." From edick at idcomm.com Fri Dec 15 22:31:21 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Z80 Datasheets References: Message-ID: <006501c06719$0b239ae0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> ... and here's a URL at which they actually do have the data sheet, though it's a scan of one of the half-sheet-sized data sheets. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Beaudry" To: Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 3:44 AM Subject: Z80 Datasheets > Hello all, > > With the recent discussion on Z80 datasheets, I thought I'd chime in... > > There's a site, www.freetradezone.com, that has a 12,000,000 component > database, and has datasheets for many of them. The site is a free > registration, but it does take forever for them to mail you a password. > Please note that I have no stake in this site... > > I snagged the complete Z80 datasheet set. If anyone has a spot that can > handle the bandwidth on downloads, I'll gladly send them along. They are > all in .PDF format... > > Also, If anyone is looking for a datasheet on some odd part that hasn't been > made in 20 yrs., send me an email... I can't guarantee instant (or even slow > :-) ) response, but I will look it up, and fire off the datasheet if it's > not too big... > > Rich B. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Dec 15 22:38:00 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Digital Diagnostic Diskettes References: Message-ID: <007f01c06719$f8a6d3e0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Some time back, somebody was mentioning that they had some of the DDD's that they wree taking to the VCF. I'm afraid to go to those things for fear of what I might bring home, and I'm not talking aboug bugs this time ... Has anyone got code that uses these things under CP/M? I've just this evening found a listing, albeit rather low-quality, of some code written by DYSAN and I'd rather not type it in if somebody has an already working version. It's called DDD.ASM and is written for a 1793. It should be possible to write a program to attempt to read sectors without making direct BIOS calls. The only problem, of course, is that there's many a slip ... Please let me know whether you've got such a thing, and how it works for you. Dick From Glenatacme at aol.com Fri Dec 15 23:00:22 2000 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person Message-ID: <7b.da95c86.276c50e6@aol.com> Today some folks came into the shop and inquired about a new Windows-based PC. They've been using an Atari (which I know nothing about) for over ten years. They use it to print flyers, manage a mailing list, do word processing, and other minor tasks. They "think" the system is a Mega ST 4 (corrections, please). They "know" that they are using Calamus, Tracker, and WordPerfect on their Atari. My questions to the group: Is there a Windows 9x emulator for this machine so they can run their old programs and use their old data? If not, can Calamus, WP, and Tracker data be transferred to a Win9x machine and accessed using current Win9x programs? In other words, they want to retain the functionality and data of their old Atari and at the same time move to a Win9x platform. Any help, as always, is greatly appreciated. Glen Goodwin 0/0 From ncherry at home.net Fri Dec 15 23:28:39 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... References: <200012160141.RAA29994@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <3A3AFD87.26DFD881@home.net> "Eric J. Korpela" wrote: > > > > As for mainframes, well, since you can buy a more powerful computer for what > > > it would cost to operate a mainframe of yesteryear for just one day, I guess > > > nobody will miss 'em. > > > > For instance, I purchased a MicroVax 3400 which I'm going to put in > > working order. I also have a VS3100, I purchased that because it was > > inexpensive and I could experiment on it first. I just want to be more > > knowledgable with the MV3400 before I start really playing with it. > > Am I the only one that considers MicroVaxen and Micro-11s to be microcomputers? > Lets get our distinctions straight. If it's smaller than a desk, or doesn't > take at least 15 vertical inches in an 19" rack it's a micro, right? The MicroVaxen is one of those that stradles the fence between mini and micro (IMHO, of course). The same boards could be dropped into a 19" cabinet and cover the floor (I take it that it can handle a lot more). At least I hope that's true as I hope to soon come into possesion of such a model which stands ~6' tall. Also there is a Buroughs' MainFrame based on the first year Moto 68K chip. Moto corrected a bug in the second year and it turnes out the Buroughs had depended on that bug. Now I know it was a mainframe as it ran a VM and CMS OS on it. But it is based on a micro chip. Also aren't the current IBM Main Frames based on a Power chip? I suspect that there is a lot of support chips (and probably multi processor). As others have pointed out, the lines have blured and agreement may not be possible. Heck I seem to recall a desktop super computer that would run on a single 20A 120V circuit with no special enviroment for ~$100K US. I don't know what happen to the box but that ain't no micro. :-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From sring at uslink.net Fri Dec 15 23:29:29 2000 From: sring at uslink.net (Stephanie Ring) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4P needs new home References: Message-ID: <006701c06721$2c8577a0$6c57ddcc@uslink.net> For just the shipping costs UPS regular I will take this computer if it is still available. Please quote shipping costs. However, I won't be able to prepay shipping until Dec 27th. Stephanie Ring 3504 State 64 SW Staples, MN 56479 From: "Stephanie Ring" sring@uslink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Vintage Computer Festival To: Classic Computers Mailing List Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 11:51 AM Subject: TRS-80 Model 4P needs new home > > Does anyone here who can afford shipping of three boxes weighing 7 pounds, > 33 pounds, and 68 pounds respectively from zip code 98039 want a complete > TRS-80 Model 4P (this is the portable version) with manuals and > everything? > > If you do, please contact me directly. Serious inquiries only please. > This is the fourth time I've advertise for this system trying to find it a > new home. Someone has GOT to want this! > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Dec 16 00:47:51 2000 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies - need I.D. from still References: Message-ID: <00e501c0672c$1c9ac1a0$649ab2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> I have posted a heavily watermarked still from Superman III at: http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/SupIIIComp.jpg It shows Richard Pryor sitting in front of two units - one of which looks sort of like a dumb terminal. The has a screen and what appears to be a switch. I'm betting some of you can i.d. these. -W From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 15 19:27:50 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail "Re: The debate on what per say is a mini..." (Dec 15, 11:51) References: Message-ID: <10012160127.ZM15677@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 15, 11:51, Sellam Ismail wrote: > You can also get fairly robust PCs, with dual hot-swap power supplies, > dual (or more) CPUs, mirrored hard drives (or RAID), error-correcting > RAM, etc. Indeed. I can tell you a story about that... A few years ago, our Department tendered for a Novell server, to act as file and mail server for our student network. The tender was won by A Well-Known PC Company with 4 letters in their name (how appropriate, as it turned out) who supplied the hardware and on-site maintenance. Well, the on-site maintenance came in the form of trained monkeys who were moderately capabable of, say, swapping a disk drive, and not very good at solving problems when the system went wrong -- as it did, rather frequently. So frequently, in fact, that for a while the Department insisted a rota for support staff "on call", something which as far as I know, has never been done before. After many "discussions" with the trained monkeys and their management, who insisted that our experienced and qualified staff must not taper with "their" hardware, we stopped calling them, and did some tests. Basically, the power supply couldn't cope with the sum of the disks and RAM. To solve the problem properly (after adding a second PSU and moving all the disks to separate housings) it was decided that we'd buy a replacement system, from another Computer Company of high repute (this one with six letters in its name). The new, overkill, spec was for dual-processor, two banks of ECC RAM, triple redundant hot-swappable power supplies, hot-swappable RAID disks, two network interfaces, and a UPS. And just for good measure, we wanted a pair of these, linked directly by a crossover cable on the second network interfaces, and running some smart software that allowed one to mirror the other. In theory, if the "live" server failed, the other would adopt its IP address and take over. In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are different. In practice, our network turns out not to like duplicate IP addresses, that is, two devices with different MAC addresses but using the same IP address -- and the second machine was not always perfectly silent. In practice, the backup server was always a bit too enthusiastic. The live server would see a glitch on the RAID disks and report it, and the backup would try to take over. But the live one wouldn't let go, and they'd fight. Almost daily, partly because the RAID system was perfectly capable of correcting errors much of time, but its controller was perfectly capable of generating them as well. In the end, we found it better to switch one off. The live one fails only occasionally, usually when doing an overnight backup. And we have a heavy box to prop open the machine room door. Or run VMware from time to time. Moral: there is such a thing as overkill, and such a thing as over-engineering. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 16 02:08:20 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 questions In-Reply-To: Chuck McManis "PDP-11/34 questions" (Dec 15, 19:31) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215192522.028b0bc0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <10012160808.ZM15895@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 15, 19:31, Chuck McManis wrote: > I opened up the RL02 drive and it has a pack marked "RSX-11M 3.2SYS" in it. > I vacuumed out all the dust I could, checked around and it seems fine. So I > buttoned it back up and tried to load the pack. It powers on (the fan > blows) but popping the LOAD switch has no effect. No lights (not even > fault) light up and the drive doesn't seem to spin at all. (yes it is > terminated) > > So my first question is, what to check on the RL02 to see why it may not be > spinning up? You did remember to put the pack cover back in the drive, yes? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 16 01:06:57 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <545.385T200T2503461optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 16 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: > >What in tarnations is a Pinetree? > > A mix-up between Apple and Apricot. Wasn't the computer called Pinetree in the > movie? I don't know. I keep missing the first half-hour. But I still think it's a mock-up computer. Wasn't there an actual computer company in Canada called "Pineapple"? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 16 01:09:37 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 4P needs new home In-Reply-To: <006701c06721$2c8577a0$6c57ddcc@uslink.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Stephanie Ring wrote: > For just the shipping costs UPS regular > I will take this computer if it is still available. > Please quote shipping costs. However, I > won't be able to prepay shipping until Dec 27th. Stephanie, you already had your shot but you blew it by not responding to niether the poor guy who has it nor myself when we inquired as to what happened to you. At any rate, it's spoken for. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 16 01:10:30 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <3A3AFD87.26DFD881@home.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Neil Cherry wrote: > Also there is a Buroughs' MainFrame based on the first year Moto 68K chip. > Moto corrected a bug in the second year and it turnes out the Buroughs > had depended on that bug. Now I know it was a mainframe as it ran a > VM and CMS OS on it. But it is based on a micro chip. Also aren't the > current IBM Main Frames based on a Power chip? I suspect that there is > a lot of support chips (and probably multi processor). It was a micro that ran VM and CMS. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Dec 16 03:00:05 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 questions In-Reply-To: <10012160808.ZM15895@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215192522.028b0bc0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001216005908.01e72630@208.226.86.10> At 08:08 AM 12/16/00 +0000, you wrote: >You did remember to put the pack cover back in the drive, yes? After the first attempt, yes :-) The "latch" on the top isn't too springy so I'm wondering if the safety isn't being released. I'm going to have to look at that mechanism a bit more closely to find out. --Chuck From gaz_k at lineone.net Sat Dec 16 04:16:35 2000 From: gaz_k at lineone.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person References: <7b.da95c86.276c50e6@aol.com> Message-ID: <000401c0674b$d73ed040$0101010a@pentium2> Glen Goodwin wrote: > Is there a Windows 9x emulator for this machine so they can run their old > programs and use their old data? Try the free emulators, Pacifist or Winston. Despite its age I prefer to use Pacifist for Atari applications. A better choice would be MagiC, but I have no idea where you can purchase it from. > If not, can Calamus, WP, and Tracker data be transferred to a Win9x machine > and accessed using current Win9x programs? Calamus & Word Perfect have been on magazine cover disks in the last year. I realise this is little help, but may give you an idea of where to get it from. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | Team Amiga | http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress | From gaz_k at lineone.net Sat Dec 16 04:31:19 2000 From: gaz_k at lineone.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Hard disk Woes References: Message-ID: <000501c0674b$d80fdbe0$0101010a@pentium2> Has anyone placed their hard disk in the freezer to revive the drive. I have a 20Gb IDE disk (off topic I know) that suffered a head crash two months ago. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | Team Amiga | http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress | From bill_h at azstarnet.com Sat Dec 16 07:03:52 2000 From: bill_h at azstarnet.com (bill_h) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Early Hayes Modems Message-ID: <3A3B6838.437B@azstarnet.com> The Microcoupler is just the phone line interface, of a two part modem. That same coupler was used on the S-100 board version modem and the Apple II board modem. Seems to me the telephone company required a separate DAA (data acquisition something_or_other?) to interface to ''their'' phone lines. Remember all that crap about we couldn't just hook things up - we might ''damage'' telephone company property? Turns out all we really damaged was their profits! Bill Hemmings Tucson, AZ From simski at dds.nl Tue Dec 12 17:00:26 2000 From: simski at dds.nl (simon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Unix and 2038 In-Reply-To: <002201c0643f$41970f30$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> References: <3A35A60E.5442E957@idirect.com> <200012120507.AAA14069@world.std.com> Message-ID: I love to see vmac running a mac plus under virtual pc on a G3 mac... Met vriendelijke groet, Simon Claessen. -- Pas op! dit bericht was electronisch verzonden From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 15 22:11:52 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: VCF East Survey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001215231152.31676490@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 01:23 PM 12/15/00 -0800, you wrote: > >In planning for a VCF East Coast, I wanted to take a poll from folks as to >where the ideal location would be. > >I am currently thinking that somewhere in the New England area would work >the best, Definitely not! It's too dammed cold! Have you looked at the weather lately? How about Florida? Send the wife and kiddies to Dismal World for the weekend and we can all get together and chew the fat without having them underfoot. but what do I know, since I've never been there (besides passing >through the airports). In deciding on a locale, I'd like to keep these >criteria in mind: > >1) Availability of an affordable location suitable for the Festival There's plenty of convention halls in Orlando. >2) Geographical proximity to the most number of potential attendees Everyone's closee to Florida. Are you? Disney thinks so, that's why they moved here. >3) Proximity to major airports We have the busied dammed airport you've ever seen! (Outside of O'Hare anyway) >4) Availability of decent accomodations THAT we do have! I'm told that Orlando has more hotel rooms than any other place in the world. >5) Weather Good or bad? Our's is great right now. But don't come between June and November unless you like to sweat! >6) Historical relevance (i.e. near Route 128, as a parallel to doing the > main Festival in the Silicon Valley) Does KSC count? How about the world's best surplus store? (Skycraft) > >So if those who are entertaining the notion of going to a VCF East could >mosey on over to the following URL and fill in the survey I'd be most >appreciative. > >http://www.vintage.org/survey.html Will do. Joe From vaxman at uswest.net Sat Dec 16 00:35:15 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215122112.03005900@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: I hate to jump into a philosophical argument, but here goes.... Mainframes are big/powerful machines that sit in a secured area and are driven by terminals (X,PC,3270,etc) on peoples desks. They cost big bucks. Micro-computers are small/weak machines that sit on peoples desk so they can surf the web and play solitare. They cost next to nothing. Workstations are more powerful, but still small... They cost more than micros. Mini-computers is a nitch that has gone away (or been replaced by workstations). They were less powerful than a mainframe, but orders of magnitude cheaper and could sit next to a persons desk. This was more of a marketing trick to help scientists convince the bean-counters they weren't buying a real computer, just a glorified calculater (PDP == Peripheral Data Processor). A calculator doesn't need to be locked in a room with all the other calculators :) The only super-mini I am aware of is the 11/780. It was DECs attempt to supplant Mainframes with lower cost, but equally powerful machines. They were quite successful at it... clint PS It is unfair to compare mainframes of old to PCs of new. To be fair, compare an 11/780 with what was available at the time: the Apple ][, Commodore, IBM PC(?). These machines couldn't support multiple users, imagine running a university off of a cluster of Amigas! PPS A modern mainframe would have no problem out-performing a PC for REAL work. It's designed to do just that. At 12:58 PM 12/15/00 -0700, Jim wrote: >Last time this subject came up, it was pointed out to me that mainframes are >much more batch oriented than micros or minis. They're designed to be fed >their job, then left alone to plow through the data, then cough up a report - >they're not optimised for direct user interaction. From vaxman at uswest.net Sat Dec 16 00:48:56 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <859.385T2800T1076293optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 16 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Chuck McManis skrev: > > >There are lots of ways to "slice" this question. I have at various time used: > > if it runs on one 110V wall socket its a micro > > if it takes 220 and/or three phase its a mini > > My, I've suddenly got a whole lot of minis around here! Thre only exception I > can think of is my DECstation 5000/200, which for some reason seems to be > stuck in 110V country. > > > if the "CPU" is one chip its a micro > > BTW, how micro is a MicroVAX? > The MicroVAX I CPU was multiple boards containing custom gate arrays IIRC. The MicroVAX II CPU is a single chip (CVAX), with a second support processor (FPU?,MMU? I forget). Runs on 110V wall socket. The BA23? pedestal cabinet could be rack-mounted in about 6" of a 19" rack (with two internal drives) The MicroVAX 2000 CPU is the same CVAX chip in a smaller box yet 13"x13"x5" or so. The MicroVAX 3100/xx CPU is a faster (3x) chip in a box more like the modern PC desktop case (short and wider, but similiar) clint From vaxman at uswest.net Sat Dec 16 00:53:18 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 questions In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215192522.028b0bc0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: Hi Chuck, I just purchased a set of 11/34 maintenance prints on EBay (yes, that was me)... If you are interested, I'll move them to the head of the list for scanning... clint On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > I got another PDP-11/34 today, this one is a bit more modern but with less > stuff in it. It has an RL11 interface connected to an RL02 drive. > > It has the newer switching PSU (vs the original boat anchor PSU) and I > powered it up with some SLU's installed for load. It came up fine and all > the voltages are spot on. > > I put all the cards back in and confirmed I could start and stop the CPU > from the control panel. However I don't know enough about operating the > 11/34's operator panel to be able to input a program. CNTRL/BOOT starts the > bootstrap. > > I opened up the RL02 drive and it has a pack marked "RSX-11M 3.2SYS" in it. > I vacuumed out all the dust I could, checked around and it seems fine. So I > buttoned it back up and tried to load the pack. It powers on (the fan > blows) but popping the LOAD switch has no effect. No lights (not even > fault) light up and the drive doesn't seem to spin at all. (yes it is > terminated) > > So my first question is, what to check on the RL02 to see why it may not be > spinning up? > > The console SLU has a male DB25 on it. Since I didn't have a compatible > terminal where it was I don't know yet what the output, if any is, to the > serial line. > > Suggestions? Steps for entering a simple program into the programmers console? > > --Chuck > > > From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Dec 16 09:01:05 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Mini-computers is a nitch that has gone away (or been replaced >by workstations). They were less powerful than a mainframe, but >orders of magnitude cheaper and could sit next to a persons >desk. This was more of a marketing trick to help scientists I don't know....i don't think the IBM AS/400 fits the mainframe definition but it is certainly larger than a micro, with it's desk-sized case. That to me would then place it in the realm of the mini. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From vaxman at uswest.net Sat Dec 16 01:03:24 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: VCF East Survey In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001215231152.31676490@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: I'd prefer to see a VCF somewhere closer to the center of the country, like Denver! clint On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > At 01:23 PM 12/15/00 -0800, you wrote: > > > >In planning for a VCF East Coast, I wanted to take a poll from folks as to > >where the ideal location would be. > > > >I am currently thinking that somewhere in the New England area would work > >the best, > > Definitely not! It's too dammed cold! Have you looked at the weather > lately? How about Florida? Send the wife and kiddies to Dismal World for > the weekend and we can all get together and chew the fat without having > them underfoot. > > but what do I know, since I've never been there (besides passing > >through the airports). In deciding on a locale, I'd like to keep these > >criteria in mind: > > > >1) Availability of an affordable location suitable for the Festival > > There's plenty of convention halls in Orlando. > > >2) Geographical proximity to the most number of potential attendees > > Everyone's closee to Florida. Are you? Disney thinks so, that's why they > moved here. > > >3) Proximity to major airports > > We have the busied dammed airport you've ever seen! (Outside of O'Hare > anyway) > > >4) Availability of decent accomodations > > THAT we do have! I'm told that Orlando has more hotel rooms than any > other place in the world. > > >5) Weather > > Good or bad? Our's is great right now. But don't come between June and > November unless you like to sweat! > > >6) Historical relevance (i.e. near Route 128, as a parallel to doing the > > main Festival in the Silicon Valley) > > Does KSC count? How about the world's best surplus store? (Skycraft) > > > >So if those who are entertaining the notion of going to a VCF East could > >mosey on over to the following URL and fill in the survey I'd be most > >appreciative. > > > >http://www.vintage.org/survey.html > > Will do. > > Joe > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 16 09:15:22 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Early Hayes Modems References: <3A3B6838.437B@azstarnet.com> Message-ID: <001901c06773$02b09200$1192fea9@idcomm.com> The DAA was for Data Access Arrangement, and you're exactly right, in that the Microcoupler is just that, the "phone-line interface," or DAA. All it did was ensure we didn't hook up more load than the line would drive. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "bill_h" To: Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 6:03 AM Subject: Re: Early Hayes Modems > The Microcoupler is just the phone line interface, of a two part > modem. That same coupler was used on the S-100 board version modem > and the Apple II board modem. Seems to me the telephone company > required a separate DAA (data acquisition something_or_other?) > to interface to ''their'' phone lines. Remember all that crap > about we couldn't just hook things up - we might ''damage'' > telephone company property? Turns out all we really damaged was > their profits! > > Bill Hemmings > Tucson, AZ > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 16 09:18:15 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Hard disk Woes References: <000501c0674b$d80fdbe0$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <002701c06773$69b76320$1192fea9@idcomm.com> How do you know you had a head-crash? Back in the '70's one could SEE evidence of that on the removable pack. One could smell the burnt heads in some cases too. I doubt y ou can either see or smell anything on these IDE types. If it was a head-crash, how would chilling it solve the resulting problems? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gareth Knight" To: Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 3:31 AM Subject: Hard disk Woes > Has anyone placed their hard disk in the freezer to revive the drive. I have > a 20Gb IDE disk (off topic I know) that suffered a head crash two months > ago. > -- > Gareth Knight > Amiga Interactive Guide | Team Amiga | > http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress | > > From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Dec 16 09:41:30 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001215200525.026963b0@pc> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001216093314.026f97a0@pc> At 06:09 PM 12/15/00 -0800, you wrote: >On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: >> Digital cameras are getting so incredibly inexpensive, >> I'd guess we're about seven years from them being included >> in cereal boxes. > >That'd be cool but by the same economical logic we'd be getting free >radios in cereal boxes today :) I can be as economical or even as downright frugal as the next guy, but even by economic logic, it's possible. At the high-end of cereal give-aways, they simply jack the price of the cereal to cover the big toy. Or they put it in the box and cover the cost in the shipping and handling charge. That's my favorite. I make it a point of covering the cost of goods in the S/H charge. What's easier to make, a radio or a voice recorder/playback chip? More importantly, what do kids want? They probably don't want a radio. They do, however, want chicken nuggets and a hunk of plastic that talks. A Happy Meal costs less than a box of cereal, no? Perhaps you're right. They'll be giving away digital cameras at McDonalds. I would guess the most expensive part inside them will be the battery, as is the situation today. Back in 1986 or so, I was ridiculed for a column in an Amiga mag that speculated that one day soon there would be free C compilers, assemblers and development systems. - John From geneb at deltasoft.com Sat Dec 16 09:24:45 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Early Hayes Modems References: <3A3B6838.437B@azstarnet.com> Message-ID: <00e001c06774$51e3e150$1ec7fec7@pcat> The message subject reminded me of something... :) Does anyone here know where I can obtain a Hayes Chronograph? tnx! g. From ncherry at home.net Sat Dec 16 10:25:33 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... References: Message-ID: <3A3B977D.38EAE51F@home.net> Jeff Hellige wrote: > > >Mini-computers is a nitch that has gone away (or been replaced > >by workstations). They were less powerful than a mainframe, but > >orders of magnitude cheaper and could sit next to a persons > >desk. This was more of a marketing trick to help scientists > > I don't know....i don't think the IBM AS/400 fits the > mainframe definition but it is certainly larger than a micro, with > it's desk-sized case. That to me would then place it in the realm of > the mini. The AS/400 is a weird beast, it comes in many sizes. In the lab we have an AS/400 that is about the size of a MicroVAX II in a BA123 or 213 cabinet. I've seen AS/400's that could fill a 20x10 room (that's will the peripherals). It's a good replacement for the System 1 and System 36 (5250 terminals). My customers seem to love them. Never let anyone convince you that the Mainframe is dead. Many of my customers were about to retire a lot of big iron for NT machines when they suddenly realized that the Mainframe could play server. They then figured out it could do a lot more. So we have come full circle so to speak. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From gaz_k at lineone.net Sat Dec 16 10:16:44 2000 From: gaz_k at lineone.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Hard disk Woes References: <000501c0674b$d80fdbe0$0101010a@pentium2> <002701c06773$69b76320$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <000401c06788$a53808e0$0101010a@pentium2> Richard Erlacher wrote: > How do you know you had a head-crash? Repeated clicking when the drive is powered up. I suspect the clicking is the sound of the drive head catching the platters. > If it was a head-crash, how would chilling it solve the resulting problems? The extreme cold would (theoretically) cause the drive to contract, and expand upon reheating. It's usually used to as a temporary cure for stiction, but I'm desperate to try anything. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | Team Amiga | http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress | From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 16 12:08:08 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Hard disk Woes References: <000501c0674b$d80fdbe0$0101010a@pentium2> <002701c06773$69b76320$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <000401c06788$a53808e0$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <001b01c0678b$25101560$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I doubt that this was a head crash. I think what you're hearing is the heads restoring and seeking repeatedly. A head-crash would not be likely produce a repeated more or less regular clicking. What's more likely is that the drive p*ssed either on a servo track or simply wiped the servo information from the track on which it saves that information. Drives normally use embedded servo infomration that's integrated into the data stream. That means that it could have had this "accident" anywhere, but if it (the repetetive clicking) happpens during the power-on sequence, it's likely that it's in the region where the control processor gets its information about what it's supposed to do. I have about 18 WD drives in a box in the corner, each of which had this symptom, and each of which was replaced at least 4 and as many as 9 times over the 2-year warranty life. Now, though they all work, I'm not likely to use them, since they'll last at most 6 weeks before going tits-up. I'll find a suitable donee, so I can take the full tax writeoff. Your 20GB drive is recent enough that it should probably still be under warranty. Have you explored that? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gareth Knight" To: Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 9:16 AM Subject: Re: Hard disk Woes > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > How do you know you had a head-crash? > > Repeated clicking when the drive is powered up. I suspect the clicking is > the sound of the drive head catching the platters. > > > If it was a head-crash, how would chilling it solve the resulting > problems? > > The extreme cold would (theoretically) cause the drive to contract, and > expand upon reheating. It's usually used to as a temporary cure for > stiction, but I'm desperate to try anything. > -- > Gareth Knight > Amiga Interactive Guide | Team Amiga | > http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress | > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Dec 16 13:13:20 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215122112.03005900@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001216105803.00a390c0@208.226.86.10> At 11:35 PM 12/15/00 -0700, Clint wrote: >I hate to jump into a philosophical argument, but here goes.... Oh they are the best kind, everyone can be right at the same time ;-) >Mainframes are big/powerful machines that sit in a secured area and >are driven by terminals (X,PC,3270,etc) on peoples desks. They cost >big bucks. In the "modern" world, what about an Intel server that is locked up in a co-location facility at some ISP and is being driven by web browsers ? (some of which (netpliance) are effectively terminals?) >Micro-computers are small/weak machines that sit on peoples >desk so they can surf the web and play solitare. They cost >next to nothing. My PC sits under my desk, only the monitor/keyboard is on top :-) >Workstations are more powerful, but still small... They cost >more than micros. Cost only? When I worked at Sun we worked in something like video resolution or max memory, but the bottom line has traditionally been cost :-) >Mini-computers is a nitch that has gone away (or been replaced >by workstations). They were less powerful than a mainframe, but >orders of magnitude cheaper and could sit next to a persons >desk. This was more of a marketing trick to help scientists >convince the bean-counters they weren't buying a real computer, >just a glorified calculater (PDP == Peripheral Data Processor). >A calculator doesn't need to be locked in a room with all the >other calculators :) Actually this isn't a fair description. Mini-computers most definitely have _not_ gone away and you will see a resurgence of mini-computer like features. Specifically, mini-computers are computers that are *configurable* with a wide variety of peripherals. This lets them be used for lab experiments, or process control, etc. PC's have done this in the past but the lack of I/O features on the mainstream "PC" of today are hindering their use in the lab and process control. Also the lack of documentation that many people have complained about. Collectively this is the "cost" model and generally follows order of magnitudes: < 4K Micro < 40K Workstation < 400K Mini < 4M Mainframe < 40M Super I added the last bit because we haven't been including "what's a super-computer" in our lists. I heard a great talk by a guy who works at LLNL and the complaints the scientists had at the purchase of ASCI WHITE (super computer made out of parallel RISC chips) because it simply could not be used to program the kinds of models they used for nuclear simulations. >PS It is unfair to compare mainframes of old to PCs of new. To be >fair, compare an 11/780 with what was available at the time: the >Apple ][, Commodore, IBM PC(?). These machines couldn't support >multiple users, imagine running a university off of a cluster of >Amigas! But Clint, this is in fact the point. Can one come up with a definition that transcends what the marketroids called micro, mini, and mainframe of their day? >PPS A modern mainframe would have no problem out-performing >a PC for REAL work. It's designed to do just that. Agreed, check out the spec's for the IBM S/390 (I mean Z900 :-) --Chuck From kapteynr at cboe.com Sat Dec 16 13:07:26 2000 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B148C8@msx1.cboe.com> David: I am not sure that you saw my earlier response, which I only sent to the mailing list. My Fortune is complete and basically works, except that it has a really flaky hard drive. (It makes lots of noise and runs about 15 minutes before warms up and quits working). I would be very interested your parts machine, if it had a compatible harddrive and especially if it had an ethernet card. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Rob Kapteyn [SMTP:kapteynr@cboe.com] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 7:24 PM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? Hi: I retired mine when the Miniscribe 10MB hard drive gave too many errors to be useful. But otherwise, I have everything complete with manuals and disks. The only "extras" I ever got were some extra Unix utilities and a Fortran compiler. The "special terminal" is actually just a low-resolution monochrome monitor connected with an RJ-45 type connector. (Character based, no graphics) The keyboard plugs into a similar connector on the front. Later models had a keyswitch, mine does not. Fortune made very nice stuff at an acceptable price for their day, but they crippled everything by making it non-standard to try to control their market. If you wanted a cheap computer to do Fortran programming, like I did, the only competition was the original IBM PC, which was brand new back then. The fact that the Fortune ran Unix made me choose the Fortune. I have no time for my collection either, but with an economic recession on the way, I might soon find myself with lots of spare time :-) In your "parts" machine, you wouldn't happen to have an ethernet card, would you ? I know that they sold them, but they were too expensive for me back then. -Rob -----Original Message----- From: David Williams [SMTP:dlw@trailingedge.com] Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 4:55 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? Hi, I've always been interested in them. I was hired back in the early 80s to pick a multi-user system for a business and that was one of the boxs we looked at. I have 2 of them and a third in parts along with some doc but don't have the special terminal to work with it. Thus I have never been able to bring them up. They seem to need some special key when trying to access these and I have no idea what sequence it sends so I could mimic it on another terminal. One day I plan on scanning the doc but haven't had the time. But since I've dropped one side job recently maybe now I'll have more time for my collection. David ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat You can learn to like the life you live or live the life you like. dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 16 13:13:48 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 questions In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215192522.028b0bc0@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Dec 15, 0 07:31:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3898 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001216/605d04d5/attachment.ksh From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Dec 16 13:08:32 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person In-Reply-To: <000401c0674b$d73ed040$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <3A3B7760.4533.4BC842E@localhost> > Glen Goodwin wrote: > > Is there a Windows 9x emulator for this machine so they can run > > their old programs and use their old data? > > Try the free emulators, Pacifist or Winston. Despite its age I prefer > to use Pacifist for Atari applications. A better choice would be > MagiC, but I have no idea where you can purchase it from. > Pacifist is still pretty impressive but just not like using the real thing. > > If not, can Calamus, WP, and Tracker data be transferred to a Win9x > machine > > and accessed using current Win9x programs? > > Calamus & Word Perfect have been on magazine cover disks in the last > year. I realise this is little help, but may give you an idea of where > to get it from. -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | > Team Amiga | http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress | > Whoa, what magazines pray tell. I thought all of the ST zines had folded their cards or were unfulfilled launches. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Dec 16 13:08:32 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: GS disks an' that. In-Reply-To: <895.384T450T14044087optimus@canit.se> References: <00Dec14.150621gmt.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <3A3B7760.3203.4BC8406@localhost> > Adrian Graham skrev: > > >> From: "Iggy Drougge" > >> Subject: RE: First personal computer nostalgia > >> > >> I'm sorry, but I feel it's nitpicking time... > >> I've never heard of an Atari 1050ST before, nor of a 1 MB > >> hard drive fitted to > >> an ST. OTOH, there is the Atari 1040ST, which had 1 MB of RAM. > > >And you *could* get HDs for them too; can't remember their product > >designation OTTOMH but a swift look at the Atari Historical Society > >should tell you. Maybe it was a Falcon! > > You certainly could, and I've never claimed otherwise. The Atari > designation should be SH-**, IIRC. I've never heard of Atari or any > other hardware producer supplying a 1MB HD for the ST, though. It > seems really pointless, considering that it would be the same size as > the built-in disk drive. > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > > The most useful program will be continually improved until it is > useless. > Altho there are modifications to use a HD floppy, and you could fiddle with track and sector sizes to expand capacity like many of the disk-zines did, the stock FDD was a double density 3 1/2. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 16 13:32:49 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > just a glorified calculater (PDP == Peripheral Data Processor). Programmed Data Processor Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 16 13:36:04 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: VCF East Survey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > I'd prefer to see a VCF somewhere closer to the center of the country, > like Denver! And have all of three people attend :) Seriously though, there has to be a sizeable attendance base to support the expense and effort required to put on an event like this. Which is why I encourage people to start holding local classic computer meetings. This will foster a sense of community in your area, and it's a lot of fun. Once a month would be great, or at least once every 3 months or so. If a following builds, then you may just end up with an attendance base required to draw a full-fledged VCF. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 16 13:38:21 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Early Hayes Modems In-Reply-To: <00e001c06774$51e3e150$1ec7fec7@pcat> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Gene Buckle wrote: > The message subject reminded me of something... :) > > Does anyone here know where I can obtain a Hayes Chronograph? I have one (not parting with it of course :) and it's the only one I've ever seen in my days. My guess is that they are not terribly common. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 16 13:39:41 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <3A3B977D.38EAE51F@home.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Neil Cherry wrote: > Never let anyone convince you that the Mainframe is dead. Many of my > customers were about to retire a lot of big iron for NT machines when > they suddenly realized that the Mainframe could play server. They then > figured out it could do a lot more. So we have come full circle so to > speak. IBM has been pushing Linux on it's S/390 (I think that's the right one) where you can run thousands of virtual Linux servers on the one mainframe. In the article I read on it several months ago, someone was able to instantiate something like 44,000 virtual Linux boxes. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 16 13:40:32 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Hard disk Woes In-Reply-To: <000401c06788$a53808e0$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Gareth Knight wrote: > The extreme cold would (theoretically) cause the drive to contract, and > expand upon reheating. It's usually used to as a temporary cure for > stiction, but I'm desperate to try anything. In this case, it sounds like it would just cause another head crash and finish the work it didn't complete the first time around :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sat Dec 16 13:42:49 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? In-Reply-To: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B148C8@msx1.cboe.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Rob Kapteyn wrote: > My Fortune is complete and basically works, except that it has a > really flaky hard drive. (It makes lots of noise and runs about 15 > minutes before warms up and quits working). Sounds like you need to stick it in the freezer :) Try adding some more fans to the box to help keep the drive cool. It'll probably run stably for great lengths of time (until it just up and crashes). I have a Fortune 32:16 as well. The only one I've ever seen. I guess that makes it uncommon too, by my own standards :) The floppy mechanism on mine needs work. I have a Fortune terminal but I don't think it's the special kind that was mentioned was required to interface with it. I don't have a keyboard either. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Dec 16 14:55:46 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:43 2005 Subject: Tossing more than cookies In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001215202258.026c12d0@pc> References: <3A3A32A1.AE45590E@coin.org> Message-ID: >At 01:17 PM 12/15/00 -0800, Mike Ford wrote: >>>> mainyard where everything gets dumped that doesn't have any special value, >>>> and said clean it up, EVERYTHING. Tuesday the 6th truck sized dumpster got >>University of California, Irvine. I am sure something similar is going on >>at most college campus' from time to time. > >Yikes. Keep an eye out for Terak stuff. They had some. So far the only Terak stuff wasn't any good, just boxes of documentation, 8" floppies etc. The little consoles with the builtin screen and 8" floppy drive aren't any good are they? *just kidding really* NOTHING remotely like a Terak, or any of its stuff would slip past me. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Dec 16 14:41:08 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3D5@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >I just spec'd a new fileserver for our office: > > Dell PowerEdge 2400 > Dual hot-swap power supplies > 6-bay hot-swappable drives > RAID 1 & 5 > 512MB ECC SDRAM Those run about $500 these days right? OT, but has anybody else been surprized at how fast the current generation of processors are falling in price? 1.4 Ghz P4 has gone in the last couple weeks from about $1400 to under $700. From ncherry at home.net Sat Dec 16 15:13:49 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: VCF East Survey References: Message-ID: <3A3BDB0D.19AF7404@home.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > I'd prefer to see a VCF somewhere closer to the center of the country, > > like Denver! > > And have all of three people attend :) > > Seriously though, there has to be a sizeable attendance base to support > the expense and effort required to put on an event like this. > > Which is why I encourage people to start holding local classic computer > meetings. This will foster a sense of community in your area, and it's a > lot of fun. Once a month would be great, or at least once every 3 months > or so. If a following builds, then you may just end up with an attendance > base required to draw a full-fledged VCF. Sellam has a very good idea! I know that there are several members on the list in the Central NJ area. Anyone care for an impromtu meeting after the Holidays? We might want to take this off list. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Dec 16 15:21:05 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <3A3B977D.38EAE51F@home.net> References: <3A3B977D.38EAE51F@home.net> Message-ID: >The AS/400 is a weird beast, it comes in many sizes. In the lab we have >an AS/400 that is about the size of a MicroVAX II in a BA123 or 213 >cabinet. I've seen AS/400's that could fill a 20x10 room (that's will >the peripherals). It's a good replacement for the System 1 and System >36 (5250 terminals). My customers seem to love them. The one we have is roughly the size of a BA123 for the system itself and then there are a number of external UPS's that take up nearly the same amout of space. It's used strictly for a single database application that takes data from users all over the world. Cradle-to-grave type tracking and it's a seperate entity from out main network of NT/95/98 and Mac machines. Unfortunately, there's but one person that is allowed to work on it at all and it's not me. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From kapteynr at cboe.com Sat Dec 16 15:31:49 2000 From: kapteynr at cboe.com (Rob Kapteyn) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Fortune Systems / freezer trick for hard drives Message-ID: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B148C9@msx1.cboe.com> Seriously, the freezer trick might be worth trying :-) The spindle bearings on my drive make weird noises that change pitch as the drive heats up. After a while, it gets really loud and the drive stops working. I think when the drive is cold, the bearings tighten a little -- due to themal contraction. If the head actually crashed, I don't think there is any hope, however. I have a little thermoelectric cooler/fan for a CPU chip. I have thought about sticking it to the drive with some heat-sink compound. Continuing on the other topic -- Data interchange with my Fortune is a pain because the 5-1/4 floppies have their own unique format which nothing else will read. Last time I looked at my floppies, it looked like they had a very thin layer of mold growing on them. (I think I had them in a damp place for a while) Anyone have experience reading moldy floppies ? -Rob -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail [SMTP:foo@siconic.com] Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 1:43 PM To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Subject: RE: Anyone else with an interest in Fortune Systems ? On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Rob Kapteyn wrote: > My Fortune is complete and basically works, except that it has a > really flaky hard drive. (It makes lots of noise and runs about 15 > minutes before warms up and quits working). Sounds like you need to stick it in the freezer :) Try adding some more fans to the box to help keep the drive cool. It'll probably run stably for great lengths of time (until it just up and crashes). I have a Fortune 32:16 as well. The only one I've ever seen. I guess that makes it uncommon too, by my own standards :) The floppy mechanism on mine needs work. I have a Fortune terminal but I don't think it's the special kind that was mentioned was required to interface with it. I don't have a keyboard either. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ncherry at home.net Sat Dec 16 15:38:43 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... References: Message-ID: <3A3BE0E3.D76E1B56@home.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Neil Cherry wrote: > > > Never let anyone convince you that the Mainframe is dead. Many of my > > customers were about to retire a lot of big iron for NT machines when > > they suddenly realized that the Mainframe could play server. They then > > figured out it could do a lot more. So we have come full circle so to > > speak. > > IBM has been pushing Linux on it's S/390 (I think that's the right one) > where you can run thousands of virtual Linux servers on the one mainframe. > In the article I read on it several months ago, someone was able to > instantiate something like 44,000 virtual Linux boxes. It's cool that they're playing with Linux but it's even better that it's a mainframe. That is one powerful box, I wonder how they fixed the TCP/IP problem? That problem was that the ethernet was directly connected to the mainframe which killed the performance (that's was FEPs are for). The most wonderful thing about a mainframe is that it can just about any OS on it while running other OS's. And I think they're still some what compatible with the old 1401, so they can run apps from over 40? years ago. BTW, I once watched a mainframe person do pipes and what not on a mainframe session (3090) as easly as I can under Unix. So I get the impression there is a lot more power there than I have any knowledge of. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 16 15:50:10 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... References: <10012160127.ZM15677@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <003101c067aa$2ad61bb0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:27 PM Subject: Re: The debate on what per say is a mini... > To solve the problem properly (after adding a second PSU and moving all the > disks to separate housings) it was decided that we'd buy a replacement > system, from another Computer Company of high repute (this one with six > letters in its name). The new, overkill, spec was for dual-processor, two > banks of ECC RAM, triple redundant hot-swappable power supplies, > hot-swappable RAID disks, two network interfaces, and a UPS. And just for > good measure, we wanted a pair of these, linked directly by a crossover > cable on the second network interfaces, and running some smart software > that allowed one to mirror the other. In theory, if the "live" server > failed, the other would adopt its IP address and take over. > > In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are > different. > > In practice, our network turns out not to like duplicate IP addresses, that > is, two devices with different MAC addresses but using the same IP address > -- and the second machine was not always perfectly silent. In practice, > the backup server was always a bit too enthusiastic. The live server would > see a glitch on the RAID disks and report it, and the backup would try to > take over. But the live one wouldn't let go, and they'd fight. Almost > daily, partly because the RAID system was perfectly capable of correcting > errors much of time, but its controller was perfectly capable of generating > them as well. > > In the end, we found it better to switch one off. The live one fails only > occasionally, usually when doing an overnight backup. And we have a heavy > box to prop open the machine room door. Or run VMware from time to time. > > Moral: there is such a thing as overkill, and such a thing as > over-engineering. Saw a presentation on this last week from Red Hat. Their piranha and STONITH protocol deal with this. We set up a demonstration with 3 bad-end web servers and 2-front end machines. We then alternately unplugged various machines and all the while kept serving the web pages. The second machine when it detected trouble with the primary would power off the first machine (Shoot The Other Node In The Head). It was quit impressive but had me thinking of VMS and MVS and wishing everyone would talk to each other instead of reinventing the wheel. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 16 14:03:38 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Professors worry that engineering students don't tinker In-Reply-To: <2867.385T500T2273833optimus@canit.se> from "Iggy Drougge" at Dec 16, 0 06:46:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2455 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001216/2183fd1f/attachment.ksh From harrison at timharrison.com Sat Dec 16 16:12:30 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: VCF East Survey References: <3A3BDB0D.19AF7404@home.net> Message-ID: <3A3BE8CE.8391371C@timharrison.com> Neil Cherry wrote: > Sellam has a very good idea! I know that there are several members on > the list in the Central NJ area. Anyone care for an impromtu meeting after > the Holidays? How about NYC? It's pretty centrally located for the New Yorkers (I'm sure there's more than just me) and the New Jersey-ites. I know a great bar to head off to. :) -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Dec 16 16:26:50 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: VCF East Survey In-Reply-To: <3A3BE8CE.8391371C@timharrison.com> References: <3A3BDB0D.19AF7404@home.net> <3A3BE8CE.8391371C@timharrison.com> Message-ID: >Neil Cherry wrote: > >> Sellam has a very good idea! I know that there are several members on >> the list in the Central NJ area. Anyone care for an impromtu meeting after > > the Holidays? And I know of all of about 3 people here in the D.C. area just off the top of my head, at least two of which are on this list. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From LFessen106 at aol.com Sat Dec 16 16:33:22 2000 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: VCF East Survey Message-ID: <22.f49939f.276d47b3@aol.com> <> Eastern PA here.. May want to come out myself! -Linc Fessenden From rdd at smart.net Sat Dec 16 16:35:43 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Kaypro-4 differences Message-ID: Greetings, Today I collected a Kaypro-4 that I notice is different from my present Kaypro-4. If it makes any difference, there's a rounf "84" sticker following Kaypro-4... is this a Kaypro-4 "84", whatever that is? In addition to two serial, and one parallel, ports, has a reset button and a fan in the back panel. Haven't time to open it up and look inside yet, but I wonder what other differences I'll discover - from what I could quickly tell with a flashlight, it didn't appear too unusual. Alas, it didn't come with floppies. Other finds: an Apple Macintosn LC with an RGB monitor and an IBM PC Aptiva model S15 (I know, this doesn't qualify as a classic... I think it was made in 1994), which I bought primarily since the price was lower than the value of the Soundblaster-16 board, WD Caviar 2700 hard drive and 4x CD-ROM. Didn't determine the CPU in it yet, as the silicone between the IC and heat-sink was covering it up. -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 15 22:47:50 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <200012160141.RAA29994@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <1148.385T2500T3476125optimus@canit.se> Eric J. Korpela skrev: >> > As for mainframes, well, since you can buy a more powerful computer for >> > what it would cost to operate a mainframe of yesteryear for just one day, >> > I guess nobody will miss 'em. >> >> For instance, I purchased a MicroVax 3400 which I'm going to put in >> working order. I also have a VS3100, I purchased that because it was >> inexpensive and I could experiment on it first. I just want to be more >> knowledgable with the MV3400 before I start really playing with it. >Am I the only one that considers MicroVaxen and Micro-11s to be >microcomputers? Lets get our distinctions straight. If it's smaller than a >desk, or doesn't take at least 15 vertical inches in an 19" rack it's a >micro, right? They're workstations. Micros... aren't multiuser? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. The object of this game is to take an ordinary guy and make him into a Pimp Master. You start off in your home town.You'll gradually build up cash and prostitutes,until you wipe out the other pimps in town. Then,it's time to move on to another,bigger city,and do the same. Pimpin' ain't easy, upcoming game from Delsyd Software From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 15 22:52:24 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215193238.028b2ab0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <1105.385T1200T3524653optimus@canit.se> Chuck McManis skrev: >You mean you didn't get yours? >--Chuck >(Seriously though, I once saw the "component stereo" you got by signing up >for Sport's Illustrated at a garage sale. It was an AM/FM radio with two >speakers about the 1/3 size of a disposable camera.) To keep this slightly on topic, a bloke at the user group once brought a miniature pong console (the size of two cigarette packs, perhaps) which was given away when signing up for a comic book. >Regarding cheap digital cameras, they are cheap because they suck. I >knuckled under and got a "real" Digicam (the Olympus C-3030Z) to replace my >nearly on-topic Minolta Dimage V) and I must say, the difference is >remarkable (they both cost about the same, and the Olympus is cheaper in >inflation adjusted dollars) I wouldn't want to risk ending up without media in a remote village in a foreign land, which is likely if one is bringing a digital camera on the holidays. And digital snaps can't be easily shown to others, save for on the lo-res web. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Computers are not intelligent. They only think they are. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Dec 16 18:50:01 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: storage media In-Reply-To: <1105.385T1200T3524653optimus@canit.se> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215193238.028b2ab0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001216164641.0203d020@208.226.86.10> At 05:52 AM 12/16/00 +0100, it was written: >I wouldn't want to risk ending up without media in a remote village in a >foreign land, which is likely if one is bringing a digital camera on the >holidays. >And digital snaps can't be easily shown to others, save for on the lo-res web. This is countered by the fact that this particular camera can connect directly to a video monitor to display images. Further, with digital cameras since you can delete "bad" pictures rather than replace film you when you fill up your flash card you've only got "keepers", and finally I carry 1 64M and two 32M cards with me that will hold something like 240 hi-res pictures which is more pictures than I have taken on any trip I have ever taken. Further with my laptop on the trip such a limit becomes meaningless. With wireless net access using something like Shutterfly to send "prints" (actual prints of your images) is pretty easy. --Chuck From whdawson at mlynk.com Sat Dec 16 18:39:40 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Fortune Systems / freezer trick for hard drives In-Reply-To: <6D5A04499826D311811100902760DDCF04B148C9@msx1.cboe.com> Message-ID: <000201c067c1$d72d6780$0b9f72d1@cobweb.net> -> Last time I looked at my floppies, it looked like they had a -> very thin layer of mold growing on them. -> (I think I had them in a damp place for a while) -> -> Anyone have experience reading moldy floppies ? http://www.swtpc.com/knowledgebase/kbpage1.htm Bill From at258 at osfn.org Sat Dec 16 18:50:43 2000 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: New pieces In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Recent arrivals this week: 1973 IBM 3742 dual data entry station. Amstrad CPC464 Acorn BBC "EdWord" Dick Smith ZV200 M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From donm at cts.com Sat Dec 16 18:51:14 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Kaypro-4 differences In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, R. D. Davis wrote: > > Greetings, > > Today I collected a Kaypro-4 that I notice is different from my > present Kaypro-4. If it makes any difference, there's a rounf "84" > sticker following Kaypro-4... is this a Kaypro-4 "84", whatever that > is? In addition to two serial, and one parallel, ports, has a reset > button and a fan in the back panel. Haven't time to open it up and > look inside yet, but I wonder what other differences I'll discover - > from what I could quickly tell with a flashlight, it didn't appear too > unusual. Alas, it didn't come with floppies. It should have the same motherboard as most of the other '84 series of machines. Primarily characterized by the presence of a 50-pin header - or at least the traces for it - that was used to interface to the WD1002-HDO bridge HDC via a translation card that took the 50-pin connection down to the 40-pins used on the WD unit. It should also have a RTC and a 300 baud modem installed or, at least, the traces for them. The boot EPROM is likely either numbered 81-292 or 81-478 on a paper label. Knowing that information, and if you have access to TeleDisk, I can email you a disk image for it. - don > Other finds: an Apple Macintosn LC with an RGB monitor and an IBM PC > Aptiva model S15 (I know, this doesn't qualify as a classic... I think > it was made in 1994), which I bought primarily since the price was > lower than the value of the Soundblaster-16 board, WD Caviar 2700 hard > drive and 4x CD-ROM. Didn't determine the CPU in it yet, as the silicone > between the IC and heat-sink was covering it up. > > -- > Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of > All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to > rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like > http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD > > > > > From optimus at canit.se Sat Dec 16 18:32:20 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person In-Reply-To: <7b.da95c86.276c50e6@aol.com> Message-ID: <1744.386T1000T924961optimus@canit.se> Glenatacme skrev: >Today some folks came into the shop and inquired about a new Windows-based >PC. They've been using an Atari (which I know nothing about) for over ten >years. They use it to print flyers, manage a mailing list, do word >processing, and other minor tasks. >They "think" the system is a Mega ST 4 (corrections, please). They "know" >that they are using Calamus, Tracker, and WordPerfect on their Atari. >My questions to the group: >Is there a Windows 9x emulator for this machine so they can run their old >programs and use their old data? Yes, several. PaCifiST is the best for games, whereas TOSbox is the best non- commercial alternative for apps. If you're willing to pay, you could get GEMulator or MagiCPC. >If not, can Calamus, WP, and Tracker data be transferred to a Win9x machine >and accessed using current Win9x programs? Yes, using the Calamus port for PC. Similarly for WordPerfect. I'm not certain what tracker is -- a database? >In other words, they want to retain the functionality and data of their old >Atari and at the same time move to a Win9x platform. Booh! Hiss! -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. -- Support your government, give Carnivore / Echelon something to parse -- classfield top-secret government restricted data information project CIA KGB GRU DISA DoD defense systems military systems spy steal terrorist Allah Natasha Gregori destroy destruct attack democracy will send Russia bank system compromise international own rule the world ATSC RTEM warmod ATMD force power enforce sensitive directorate TSP NSTD ORD DD2-N AMTAS STRAP warrior-T presidental elections policital foreign embassy takeover -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From optimus at canit.se Sat Dec 16 18:34:42 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person In-Reply-To: <3A3B7760.4533.4BC842E@localhost> Message-ID: <623.386T2100T945673optimus@canit.se> Lawrence Walker skrev: > Whoa, what magazines pray tell. I thought all of the ST zines had >folded their cards or were unfulfilled launches. The only serious ST print mag I know of which is still published is ST Computer/Atari inside of Germany. However, it went subscription-only last year, so I can't buy the occasional issue at Interpress anymore. =( -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Gillar man porr..v?ld kvinno f?rnedring...och en massa onda handlingar s? ?r det filmen f?r dig....sj?lv vet jag inte..har sett 1-3......samtidigt som jag avskyr dem s? ?r det ?nd? s? n?tt magiskt bakom dem... Eric B om Urotsukid?ji From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Dec 16 19:10:41 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: more PDP 11/34 ramblings Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001216165415.02041790@208.226.86.10> I wrote down the inventory of modules in the 11/34 and its pretty standard: CPU + FP11 128KW MOS Memory Programmers Console 9312 Boot/terminator RL02 interface SLU+Realtime clock interface DR11-C interface (DMA capable?) 9302 "far end" terminator. Unlike my first one this has sort of a bent screen unit above the programmers console rather than the black dress panel. (looks like it got impacted at some point). Further it has the FP11 but doesn't say PDP 11/34a on the front as the older ones used to, presumably this became "standard" at some point. I of course will take a functional CPU over a "pretty" box any time :-) All in all a very nice box. --Chuck From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 16 19:35:18 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 questions In-Reply-To: Chuck McManis "Re: PDP-11/34 questions" (Dec 16, 1:00) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001215192522.028b0bc0@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20001216005908.01e72630@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <10012170135.ZM16293@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 16, 1:00, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 08:08 AM 12/16/00 +0000, you wrote: > >You did remember to put the pack cover back in the drive, yes? > > After the first attempt, yes :-) The "latch" on the top isn't too springy > so I'm wondering if the safety isn't being released. I'm going to have to > look at that mechanism a bit more closely to find out. :-) I had one like that -- it took a lot of fiddling to get it right. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Dec 16 19:54:20 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Online reference to 11/34 console? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001216175330.0255bb60@208.226.86.10> Is there an online reference anywhere that describes how to use the 11/34 console? (either the octal keypad console or the monitor?) --Chuck From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Dec 16 20:20:20 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Tossing more than cookies In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001215202258.026c12d0@pc> <3A3A32A1.AE45590E@coin.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001216201750.02709340@pc> At 12:55 PM 12/16/00 -0800, you wrote: >So far the only Terak stuff wasn't any good, just boxes of documentation, >8" floppies etc. The little consoles with the builtin screen and 8" floppy >drive aren't any good are they? > >*just kidding really* NOTHING remotely like a Terak, or any of its stuff >would slip past me. You had me going there for a moment. :-) You never know what someone considers good enough to save... one man's fish is another man's poisson. - John From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 16 20:52:12 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... Message-ID: Minicomputers = a class of computers now referred to as "midrange", except that people tend to class some random Intel-based garbage in there sometimes _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From vaxman at uswest.net Sat Dec 16 13:13:40 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001216105803.00a390c0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > At 11:35 PM 12/15/00 -0700, Clint wrote: > >I hate to jump into a philosophical argument, but here goes.... > > Oh they are the best kind, everyone can be right at the same time ;-) > No, only me :) > >Mainframes are big/powerful machines that sit in a secured area and > >are driven by terminals (X,PC,3270,etc) on peoples desks. They cost > >big bucks. > > In the "modern" world, what about an Intel server that is locked up in a > co-location facility at some ISP and is being driven by web browsers ? > (some of which (netpliance) are effectively terminals?) > I'd still consider it a micro. Most similiarly configured machines are not supporting corporations, just individual users. The fact that one is locked up doesn't really change it's status as a toy... > >Micro-computers are small/weak machines that sit on peoples > >desk so they can surf the web and play solitare. They cost > >next to nothing. > > My PC sits under my desk, only the monitor/keyboard is on top :-) > I've got four sitting on my desk, each with a specific task to do :) > >Workstations are more powerful, but still small... They cost > >more than micros. > > Cost only? When I worked at Sun we worked in something like video > resolution or max memory, but the bottom line has traditionally been cost :-) > Interesting point... Workstations typically have had better than average video and memory capabilities than the typical PC, but the line has blurred quite a bit... At work I have a Compaq P3-700 with 256MB ram (expandable to 1GB), and a Sparc Ultra 10-440(?)... The Compaq is ~2x the speed of the Sun, but the Sun was designed to use PC parts to reduce the cost, making it just another micro IMNSHO... > >Mini-computers is a nitch that has gone away (or been replaced > >by workstations). They were less powerful than a mainframe, but > >orders of magnitude cheaper and could sit next to a persons > >desk. This was more of a marketing trick to help scientists > >convince the bean-counters they weren't buying a real computer, > >just a glorified calculater (PDP == Peripheral Data Processor). > >A calculator doesn't need to be locked in a room with all the > >other calculators :) > > Actually this isn't a fair description. Mini-computers most definitely have > _not_ gone away and you will see a resurgence of mini-computer like > features. Specifically, mini-computers are computers that are > *configurable* with a wide variety of peripherals. This lets them be used > for lab experiments, or process control, etc. PC's have done this in the > past but the lack of I/O features on the mainstream "PC" of today are > hindering their use in the lab and process control. Also the lack of > documentation that many people have complained about. > We use PCs almost exclusively for lab work... Of course, we build custom hardware to do the work and the PC runs matlab to collect and display the data... > Collectively this is the "cost" model and generally follows order of > magnitudes: > < 4K Micro > < 40K Workstation > < 400K Mini > < 4M Mainframe > < 40M Super > I added the last bit because we haven't been including "what's a > super-computer" in our lists. I heard a great talk by a guy who works at > LLNL and the complaints the scientists had at the purchase of ASCI WHITE > (super computer made out of parallel RISC chips) because it simply could > not be used to program the kinds of models they used for nuclear simulations. > > >PS It is unfair to compare mainframes of old to PCs of new. To be > >fair, compare an 11/780 with what was available at the time: the > >Apple ][, Commodore, IBM PC(?). These machines couldn't support > >multiple users, imagine running a university off of a cluster of > >Amigas! > > But Clint, this is in fact the point. Can one come up with a definition > that transcends what the marketroids called micro, mini, and mainframe of > their day? > Proly not, but it's fun to try... > >PPS A modern mainframe would have no problem out-performing > >a PC for REAL work. It's designed to do just that. > > Agreed, check out the spec's for the IBM S/390 (I mean Z900 :-) > > --Chuck > From vaxman at uswest.net Sat Dec 16 13:17:06 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: VCF East Survey In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > I'd prefer to see a VCF somewhere closer to the center of the country, > > like Denver! > > And have all of three people attend :) > FOUR! Me, Richard, Emanuel, and Will! Just be glad we're not it CA... I've seen Emanuel's, and I know my collection, and Will has everything... We'd definitely black out half the state :) > Seriously though, there has to be a sizeable attendance base to support > the expense and effort required to put on an event like this. > > Which is why I encourage people to start holding local classic computer > meetings. This will foster a sense of community in your area, and it's a > lot of fun. Once a month would be great, or at least once every 3 months > or so. If a following builds, then you may just end up with an attendance > base required to draw a full-fledged VCF. > Something to ponder upon... Any comments Denverites? clint From vaxman at uswest.net Sat Dec 16 13:17:44 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Dec 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 15 Dec 2000, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > > > just a glorified calculater (PDP == Peripheral Data Processor). > > Programmed Data Processor > DOH! My bad.... clint From optimus at canit.se Sat Dec 16 20:13:06 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Unix and 2038 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <335.386T300T1933745optimus@canit.se> simon skrev: >I love to see vmac running a mac plus under virtual pc on a G3 mac... It is rather common for show-offs amongst UAE users to run a Shapeshifter Mac on a UAE Amiga on a PC. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. "Jag ?r 35 ?r och citerar planetens och v?rldshistoriens b?sta anime hur mycket jag vill, bl?jbarn." ?ke Rosenius From optimus at canit.se Sat Dec 16 20:26:21 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <465.386T1050T2065015optimus@canit.se> VAX collector skrev: >PS It is unfair to compare mainframes of old to PCs of new. To be >fair, compare an 11/780 with what was available at the time: the >Apple ][, Commodore, IBM PC(?). These machines couldn't support >multiple users, imagine running a university off of a cluster of >Amigas! Hmm, somehow I find myself /very/?attracted to that alternative. ^_- -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Vi m?ste vara r?dda om varandra - det ?r v?rt enda reciproka pronomen. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 17 00:08:01 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Online reference to 11/34 console? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001216175330.0255bb60@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >Is there an online reference anywhere that describes how to use the 11/34 >console? (either the octal keypad console or the monitor?) > >--Chuck I *think* this is what you're looking for (honestly I'm not sure, never really looked at it until now). ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/pdp1134/ Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Dec 17 00:53:18 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Online reference to 11/34 console? In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001216175330.0255bb60@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001216224954.01e89620@208.226.86.10> Thanks Zane! Yup, the pocket reference works for me. The 11/34 user's guide would be nicer but this will do. I was missing the "LSR" key actually loads the current display "into" the switch register such that presumably one can read the value. The scans aren't that great though. Does anyone have a spare PDP 11/34 pocket reference card? I can trade you a PDP-11 programming card for it. Or an RX02 pocket reference, oooooh! :-) --Chuck At 10:08 PM 12/16/00 -0800, you wrote: >I *think* this is what you're looking for (honestly I'm not sure, never >really looked at it until now). >ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/pdp1134/ From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sun Dec 17 09:04:58 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: VCF East Survey In-Reply-To: from Jeff Hellige at "Dec 16, 2000 05:26:50 pm" Message-ID: <200012171504.eBHF4w009277@bg-tc-ppp854.monmouth.com> > >Neil Cherry wrote: > > > >> Sellam has a very good idea! I know that there are several members on > >> the list in the Central NJ area. Anyone care for an impromtu meeting after > > > the Holidays? > > And I know of all of about 3 people here in the D.C. area > just off the top of my head, at least two of which are on this list. > > Jeff > -- > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > Sounds good to me... Monmouth County (Central New Jersey) here. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Dec 17 09:57:59 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Unix and 2038 In-Reply-To: <335.386T300T1933745optimus@canit.se> References: <335.386T300T1933745optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >It is rather common for show-offs amongst UAE users to run a Shapeshifter Mac >on a UAE Amiga on a PC. When I was running Shapeshifter on my A4000, I used to try and run an older version of SoftPC on top of it. Even with just MS-DOS 5 running, it ran slowly on the stock '040 cpu, but it did run. I also only had the standard 18meg of RAM on the mainboard and Shapeshifter was running System 7.1 at 640 x 480 in 256 colors on EGS on my Spectrum. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From claudew at sprint.ca Sun Dec 17 10:18:05 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: DEC VT-180 "Robin" system / finding a DEC VT-100 Message-ID: <3A3CE73D.B669EA78@sprint.ca> Hi I have been offered the components for a Dec "Robin" system. Person says he has everything except the VT-100... Anybody wanna speculate what are my chances of finding a clean no screen burn VT100 terminal/keyboard these days...and in Canada...??? Thanks Claude From cem14 at cornell.edu Sun Dec 17 10:36:04 2000 From: cem14 at cornell.edu (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001216105803.00a390c0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20001217113604.0072dd0c@postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu> At 12:13 PM 12/16/00 -0700, you wrote: >Interesting point... Workstations typically have had better than >average video and memory capabilities than the typical PC, but >the line has blurred quite a bit... At work I have a Compaq P3-700 >with 256MB ram (expandable to 1GB), and a Sparc Ultra 10-440(?)... >The Compaq is ~2x the speed of the Sun, but the Sun was designed to >use PC parts to reduce the cost, making it just another micro IMNSHO... I once ran an interesting benchmark on a PC and a Sun Ultra II. I plotted the mean, max and min megaflop rates as a function of problem size for two kinds of dense and sparse linear algebra operations. Both machines had a peak performance of about 33MFlops, but the spread of the speeds for a given problem size were much larger on the PC (and no, this was not a timing resolution problem), while the min and max rate lines were almost identical on the Sun. Thus, it could be seen that variance in performance was much higher on the PC, while it was very smooth on the Sun. Another interesting trend appeared with respect to problem size: as the required storage grew significantly larger than the secondary cache, the rate on the PC degraded dramatically to 15MFlops. Then, as swap was required to hold the problem, NT4sp4 complained about not enough memory and froze. On the Sun, the speed degraded very gracefully from 33 to 29 MFlops as the size of the problem grew large, then there was a more significant drop as swap had to be used to hold the entire problem. But Solaris kept running :-) . The cache in the PC was 2MB I think, and 4MB on the Sun. carlos. From passerm at umkc.edu Sun Dec 17 10:46:02 2000 From: passerm at umkc.edu (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Slashdot story-Atari 800XL used in Czech hospital Message-ID: <000901c06848$d7a32060$0200a8c0@swbell.net> The article and discussion at this URL: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/12/17/148227&mode=nested discuss a cassette-based Atari 800 in a medical application in the Czech Republic. Some of the pictures are mirrored at these URLs: http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~chengj/temp/hosp01.jpg http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~chengj/temp/hosp03.jpg http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~chengj/temp/hosp04.jpg http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~chengj/temp/hosp06.jpg http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~chengj/temp/hosp10.jpg http://www.ecf.utoronto.ca/~chengj/temp/hosp11.jpg --Mike From marvin at rain.org Sun Dec 17 11:25:57 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Slashdot story-Atari 800XL used in Czech hospital References: <000901c06848$d7a32060$0200a8c0@swbell.net> Message-ID: <3A3CF725.5BB8FF15@rain.org> Michael Passer wrote: > > The article and discussion at this URL: > > http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/12/17/148227&mode=nested > > discuss a cassette-based Atari 800 in a medical application in the > Czech Republic. A summary posted in one of the comments states: 1) Computer is started, program is loaded from cassette. 2) Entering the data of patient (name, birthdate, height, weight). 3) Entering the date & time of checkup. 4) Entering the age of the isotope. 5) Program computes the optimal amount of isotope. 6) The probes are pointed to certain places of patient's body. 7) Injection of isotope. 8) For 5 minutes the program records the data from the probes. 9) Saving the data to cassette. 10) Disconnecting the gamma interface, connecting the teletype interface. 11) Priting of the protocol to teletype. Amazing though, that some of the comments seem to show a disrespect for older technology for no other reason that it isn't the newest. From rcini at optonline.net Sun Dec 17 11:35:55 2000 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Semicon storage Message-ID: Hello, all: I'm wrestling with a chip storage problem and wanted to get ideas from others as to how to store and track ICs in my "stock". Right now, I have ICs of various types stored in a mixture of anti-static tubes and black foam. Unfortunately, it's impossible to find any particular chip because most of them are mixed-up and the tubes aren't identified. So, I realize that there's a problem here. I need to number the tubes and re-sort the chips. But, while I'm going throught this I wanted to get some ideas for "a better way." Does anyone use a formal inventory system? How do you track the tubes and chips? Rich Rich Cini ClubWin! Group 1 Collector of Classic Computers Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /*****************************************/ From ncherry at home.net Sun Dec 17 11:47:00 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: VCF East Survey References: <200012171504.eBHF4w009277@bg-tc-ppp854.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <3A3CFC14.A0F0E4E7@home.net> Bill Pechter wrote: > > > >Neil Cherry wrote: > > > > > >> Sellam has a very good idea! I know that there are several members on > > >> the list in the Central NJ area. Anyone care for an impromtu meeting after > > > > the Holidays? > > > > And I know of all of about 3 people here in the D.C. area > > just off the top of my head, at least two of which are on this list. > > > > Jeff > > -- > > Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: > > Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File > > http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 > > > > Sounds good to me... > > Monmouth County (Central New Jersey) here. > > Bill Well it looks like we have a good chunk of the Northeast Corridor (Amtrak rail from DC to Boston) covered. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From gregorym at cadvision.com Sun Dec 17 11:47:27 2000 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: DEC VT-180 "Robin" system / finding a DEC VT-100 References: <3A3CE73D.B669EA78@sprint.ca> Message-ID: <005f01c06851$6c593840$0100a8c0@hal90002> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claude" Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 9:18 AM Subject: DEC VT-180 "Robin" system / finding a DEC VT-100 > > Anybody wanna speculate what are my chances of finding a clean no screen > burn VT100 terminal/keyboard these days...and in Canada...??? > I don't know how much of a purist you are, but it shouldn't be hard to find a VT-100 _compatible_ terminal. Most terminal manufacturers made them at one time. Wyse made dozens of models that had very good emulation, and several are still produced (Wyse 55, among others). Used ones are common out west. And you never know what you'll find if you look long enough. A few months ago (due to space limitations and lack of need) I passed up a "mint in box" DEC VT-100 at a thrift store; it still had it's original styrofoam packing. So keep looking! Cheers, Mark. From djg at drs-esg.com Sun Dec 17 11:50:34 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: RL01/RL02 Message-ID: <200012171750.MAA04142@drs-esg.com> >From: Jeffrey l Kaneko >I hope some day, maybe some kind person will do the same >for the RL02. > I put up the RL01/02 user guide, search on RL01 or RL02 at http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/query.pl sorry, don't have printset/maintenance manual. The RL01/02 pocket service guide is still avalable from Compaq, $42, http://www.digital.com/dassearch.html, enter rl01 From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sun Dec 17 12:06:29 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: DEC VT-180 "Robin" system / finding a DEC VT-100 In-Reply-To: <3A3CE73D.B669EA78@sprint.ca> from Claude at "Dec 17, 2000 11:18:05 am" Message-ID: <200012171806.eBHI6Td21968@bg-tc-ppp378.monmouth.com> > Hi > > I have been offered the components for a Dec "Robin" system. Person says > he has everything except the VT-100... > > Anybody wanna speculate what are my chances of finding a clean no screen > burn VT100 terminal/keyboard these days...and in Canada...??? > > Thanks > Claude They're pretty common in back corners of old labs. The difficult part is finding the VT180 kit. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From passerm at umkc.edu Sun Dec 17 12:08:10 2000 From: passerm at umkc.edu (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: DEC VT-180 "Robin" system / finding a DEC VT-100 References: <3A3CE73D.B669EA78@sprint.ca> <005f01c06851$6c593840$0100a8c0@hal90002> Message-ID: <002201c06854$5132d000$0200a8c0@swbell.net> Unfortunately, a compatible won't work with the Robin upgrade; it consists of boards that are installed in the VT-100 cabinet itself. --Mike From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Dec 17 12:15:57 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: DEC VT-180 "Robin" system / finding a DEC VT-100 Message-ID: <01f001c06857$5fc23360$cf799a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: Claude >I have been offered the components for a Dec "Robin" system. Person says >he has everything except the VT-100... A DEC VT180 (Aka Robin) without VT100 is just a disk box, a VT180 board and the cables and connectors to insert it in vt100. What it is is a Z80 /64k board with 4 serial ports and FDC. You basic CP/M engine. What it needs to work, power, interface to terminal, reset from vt100. The VT100 supplies power, reset and the interface between the two. That board can be made to run standalone with any standard DEC tube or similar. As CP/M systems go it was a decent one. It's weaknesses were, only single sided drives and bios was for DD 40 tracks (172k per drive). The upside was it was a soild machine and fast {for the time} at 4mhz. >Anybody wanna speculate what are my chances of finding a clean no screen >burn VT100 terminal/keyboard these days...and in Canada...??? Good possibility. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 17 12:24:53 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: RL01/RL02 In-Reply-To: <200012171750.MAA04142@drs-esg.com> from "David Gesswein" at Dec 17, 0 12:50:34 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 388 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001217/e0a7f109/attachment.ksh From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Dec 17 12:59:46 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: DEC VT-180 "Robin" system / finding a DEC VT-100 Message-ID: <021401c0685b$964830c0$cf799a8d@ajp166> From: Michael Passer >Unfortunately, a compatible won't work with the Robin upgrade; it consists >of boards that are installed in the VT-100 cabinet itself. > >--Mike I do it all the time. The VT180 card can be modded for standalone. It requires power, connectors and a simple source of reset. Allison From edick at idcomm.com Sun Dec 17 13:00:25 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Semicon storage References: Message-ID: <002501c0685b$9d93ddc0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I've found that those metal wall-hangable cabinets for the small 1.25x2:x6" plastic drawers have worked OK for the last 25 years. Now I'm having a problem getting more matching boxes ... Oh well ... For stuff I keep in quantity, (not intentionally but still ...) I keep a few in the drawers, but most in the plastic rails in which they're shipped. I've often considered using an idle computer to keep track of the drawers by lighting a row and a column LED indiator to lead me to the drawer. That way I don't have to mark the parts drawer with the part numbers and it doesn't matter whether there's any logic to how they're stored physically, since the software works that out. That would solve a lot of problems for me, since I have hundreds of drawers and over a thousand different IC numbers to track. Not only that, but there are hundreds of switches, resistors, caps, etc, not to mention the nuts, bolts, washers, standoffs, card-guides, connectors, LED's transistors, LCD's, etc. and then there's the "snake-pit" (boxes of cables). Since there's no coupling between the inventory list and where it's stored, I have to store the parts in a drawer with a label in some way indicative of what's inside. Software and a few wires would sureley help with that. One of these days ... Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard A. Cini" To: "ClassCompList" Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 10:35 AM Subject: Semicon storage > Hello, all: > > I'm wrestling with a chip storage problem and wanted to get ideas from > others as to how to store and track ICs in my "stock". > > Right now, I have ICs of various types stored in a mixture of anti-static > tubes and black foam. Unfortunately, it's impossible to find any particular > chip because most of them are mixed-up and the tubes aren't identified. > > So, I realize that there's a problem here. I need to number the tubes and > re-sort the chips. But, while I'm going throught this I wanted to get some > ideas for "a better way." Does anyone use a formal inventory system? How do > you track the tubes and chips? > > Rich > > Rich Cini > ClubWin! Group 1 > Collector of Classic Computers > Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > /*****************************************/ > > > From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 17 11:56:28 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: Semicon storage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Richard A. Cini wrote: > So, I realize that there's a problem here. I need to number the > tubes and re-sort the chips. But, while I'm going throught this I > wanted to get some ideas for "a better way." Does anyone use a formal > inventory system? How do you track the tubes and chips? So unless you really worry about static, get one of those multi-drawer storage cabinets that has like 10 rows of like 8 little drawers each, usually used to hold screws or whatnot. That way you can just label the front of each drawer with what IC it holds. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mwp at acm.org Sun Dec 17 13:13:43 2000 From: mwp at acm.org (Michael Passer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:44 2005 Subject: DEC VT-180 "Robin" system / finding a DEC VT-100 References: <021401c0685b$964830c0$cf799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <001801c0685d$792fd900$0200a8c0@swbell.net> > >Unfortunately, a compatible won't work with the Robin upgrade; it > consists > >of boards that are installed in the VT-100 cabinet itself. > > > >--Mike > > > I do it all the time. The VT180 card can be modded for standalone. > It requires power, connectors and a simple source of reset. > > Allison Cool! I had no idea that's all that was drawn from the VT-100. So the keyboard and display talk over the serial bus to the 180 board as a terminal? I always thought that the VT-180 board took over the keyboard and display rather than using the VT-100 as a terminal. --Mike From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 17 13:00:05 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: more PDP 11/34 ramblings In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001216165415.02041790@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Dec 16, 0 05:10:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1061 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001217/0449bd3c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 17 13:01:07 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 questions In-Reply-To: <10012170135.ZM16293@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Dec 17, 0 01:35:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 493 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001217/ee3b0f92/attachment.ksh From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Dec 17 14:10:02 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: DEC VT-180 "Robin" system / finding a DEC VT-100 Message-ID: <023701c06866$28b9c4f0$cf799a8d@ajp166> From: Michael Passer >> I do it all the time. The VT180 card can be modded for standalone. >> It requires power, connectors and a simple source of reset. >> >> Allison > >Cool! I had no idea that's all that was drawn from the VT-100. Yes basically the VT100 is used for the terminal and power. >So the keyboard and display talk over the serial bus to the 180 >board as a terminal? No bus. There are 4 serial ports on the VT180 card, one for the VT100 as console and the other three as Printer, AUX and terminal. The terminal port allows setting it as a plalin terminal. >I always thought that the VT-180 board >took over the keyboard and display rather than using the VT-100 >as a terminal. Thank about that again, it does. However the Vt180 board allows for a pass through mode so you can still have a vanilla VT100. The VT180 only expects the terminal to respond to ESC[5n as that gives a status (vt100 selftest status) back. Fake the response and anything works. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Dec 17 14:13:26 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Semicon storage Message-ID: <023801c06866$29e9e080$cf799a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail To: ClassCompList Date: Sunday, December 17, 2000 2:26 PM Subject: Re: Semicon storage >On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Richard A. Cini wrote: > >> So, I realize that there's a problem here. I need to number the >> tubes and re-sort the chips. But, while I'm going throught this I >> wanted to get some ideas for "a better way." Does anyone use a formal >> inventory system? How do you track the tubes and chips? > >So unless you really worry about static, get one of those multi-drawer >storage cabinets that has like 10 rows of like 8 little drawers each, >usually used to hold screws or whatnot. > >That way you can just label the front of each drawer with what IC it >holds. I've learned over 30 years that antistatic meaures even for TTL is a good idea. However it was about 18 years ago it was proven to me that mild ESD hits to even TTL degrades them. I line the bins with black foam or Al foil. Allison From edick at idcomm.com Sun Dec 17 14:35:04 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Semicon storage References: <023801c06866$29e9e080$cf799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <000d01c06868$d6ab1e40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> IF you label the front of each drawer with the 1 IC type it holds you'll need 10,000 drawers. It works fine if you put a layer of the antistatic foam in the bottom and another layer on top of that, etc, an it also makes it easy to count what you've got. That way you can have more than one type of IC in a drawer without mixing them. Moreover, you can put more than one piece of foam on a layer, thereby allowing more different parts in a drawer. Dick > > > >That way you can just label the front of each drawer with what IC it > >holds. > > > I've learned over 30 years that antistatic meaures even for TTL is > a good idea. However it was about 18 years ago it was proven to me > that mild ESD hits to even TTL degrades them. > > I line the bins with black foam or Al foil. > > Allison > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 15:13:55 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: New Find: Sanyo Navigator - has crt problems Message-ID: <20001217211355.60439.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> It was "blue tag" day at the thrift store - 50% off. I found this black box with a 9" crt, telephone and floppy drive. There was a bit of thermal fax paper hanging out the back and the top lifted off to reveal a paper input hopper. The whole thing seems to be a piece of office equipment, c. 1990, consisting of an integrated phone, fax and 8086-based PC. Locating and removing the kilogram of metric screws reveals a 40-pin drive interface (with a Fuji FK311X-50R drive attached), a 720K Sony floppy, a bunch of 64K DRAM zips, an externally accessible 27C1024 EPROM and the general sorts of things one finds in an 80x6-based box. Does anyone have any information on this guy? Web searching for keywords like Sanyo and Navigator comes up with *lots* of hits, but none useful. One problem with this unit - the crt has a collapsed display - all the video signal is shown one pixel tall. I know it's likely to be a very simple fix, but I'm not an awesome TV repair dude. The interface between the CRT and the CPU is a single, proprietary cable. Other than the lack of video, the box seems to boot. The hard disk makes proper sorts of noises and the caps lock, scroll lock and num lock keys all make the lights go on and off. Thanks for any hints, -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From jtinker at coin.org Sun Dec 17 16:44:42 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Semicon storage References: <023801c06866$29e9e080$cf799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3A3D41D9.69D0B2AF@coin.org> > >On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Richard A. Cini wrote: > > > >> So, I realize that there's a problem here. I need to number the > >> tubes and re-sort the chips. But, while I'm going throught this I > >> wanted to get some ideas for "a better way." Does anyone use a formal > >> inventory system? How do you track the tubes and chips? For chips I use tubes, because I received several hundred of them once as a gift. As far as sorting things, my general principle is to do so as necessary, and not over-do it. It is important to never be in too big of a hurry to find anything when using this system. It helps me take a more zen approach, and keeps me from being tapped too often for widgets, because most of my friends don't have the patience to wait while I find them. However, I find that if I can establish gravitational centers for certain types of objects, I am able to approximate my way toward what I am looking for, and my eye will pick out the appropriate object on its own. So I don't worry about having several part numbers in the same drawer, but not too many. When there get to be "too many", I sub-divide them into several categories to bring it back to a managable mess. When I can't find something I know I have, I go back into organizational mode for while. I once concluded that I needed a spreadsheet with several columns: what an item is (generic type and specific identifier), where it is, and quantities if the item is a collection of similar items. Being currently self-unemployed, I'm actually working on this now, although slowly. Containers are treated as items in their own right. Containers can be put inside of other containers. A drawer is a container, as is the cabinet it fits into, as is the room where the cabinet is. Then the idea is to then adjust the representation of the inventory in unison with adjustments of real inventory. That's always been the fatal flaw for me. However if it is maintained, such a spreadsheet is easily sorted to find availability and location. For me the driving inspiration is that somebody else might be able to find something in my mess. Well, if they could find it, I don't suppose it would still be considered a mess, would it? -- John Tinker From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 17 13:25:45 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Semicon storage In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 17, 0 09:56:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1356 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001217/a5c6ebf3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 17 17:10:42 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: New Find: Sanyo Navigator - has crt problems In-Reply-To: <20001217211355.60439.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 17, 0 01:13:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1168 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001217/1ef248e2/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Sun Dec 17 18:32:44 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Semicon storage References: <023801c06866$29e9e080$cf799a8d@ajp166> <3A3D41D9.69D0B2AF@coin.org> Message-ID: <000f01c0688a$0a582be0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> You may be onto something, John. I believe the solution for the average guy lies between the dedicated computer to track and locate your parts via a fully automatic electro-mechanical filing and sorting system and a spreadsheet on your PC combined with a little "ZEN" to suit your lifestyle and personality. For me, the archival is predominantly gological, i.e. if I know when I had it last or saw it last, I can figure out pretty easily where I put it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Tinker" To: Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 3:44 PM Subject: Re: Semicon storage > > >On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Richard A. Cini wrote: > > > > > >> So, I realize that there's a problem here. I need to number the > > >> tubes and re-sort the chips. But, while I'm going throught this I > > >> wanted to get some ideas for "a better way." Does anyone use a formal > > >> inventory system? How do you track the tubes and chips? > > For chips I use tubes, because I received several hundred of them once as a > gift. > > As far as sorting things, my general principle is to do so as necessary, and > not over-do it. It is important to never be in too big of a hurry to find > anything when using this system. It helps me take a more zen approach, and > keeps me from being tapped too often for widgets, because most of my friends > don't have the patience to wait while I find them. However, I find that if I > can establish gravitational centers for certain types of objects, I am able > to approximate my way toward what I am looking for, and my eye will pick out > the appropriate object on its own. So I don't worry about having several > part numbers in the same drawer, but not too many. When there get to be "too > many", I sub-divide them into several categories to bring it back to a > managable mess. When I can't find something I know I have, I go back into > organizational mode for while. > > I once concluded that I needed a spreadsheet with several columns: what an > item is (generic type and specific identifier), where it is, and quantities > if the item is a collection of similar items. Being currently > self-unemployed, I'm actually working on this now, although slowly. > Containers are treated as items in their own right. Containers can be put > inside of other containers. A drawer is a container, as is the cabinet it > fits into, as is the room where the cabinet is. Then the idea is to then > adjust the representation of the inventory in unison with adjustments of > real inventory. That's always been the fatal flaw for me. However if it is > maintained, such a spreadsheet is easily sorted to find availability and > location. For me the driving inspiration is that somebody else might be able > to find something in my mess. Well, if they could find it, I don't suppose > it would still be considered a mess, would it? > > -- John Tinker > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Dec 17 19:23:23 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: New Find: Sanyo Navigator - has crt problems Message-ID: <20001218012323.64681.qmail@web9501.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > One problem with this unit - the crt has a collapsed display - all the > video > > This is various called 'vertical collapse', 'frame collapse' and 'field > collapse'. This might give you some keywords to search for. Great. > > signal is shown one pixel tall. > > It is most likely a simple fix -- the vertical section of most TVs and > monitors is the simplest part of the set. I am assuming this is a > monochrome monitor. Yes. Monochrome. The other "problem" with this unit is operator error - I got the manufacturer wrong. It's a Cannon model S31118, "Facsimile Transciever Unit". Thanks for the pointers, Tony. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Dec 17 20:23:40 2000 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies References: <00e501c0672c$1c9ac1a0$649ab2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003901c06899$89db27a0$2012f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Can no one i.d. these computers from Superman 3? http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/SupIIIComp.jpg From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Dec 18 00:56:11 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: I have returned... Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001217225611.009b0530@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Back! I'm back. Everyone relax. ;-) Some quick news bits in case not everyone's caught up. NetBSD 1.5 is out, and I've managed to burn a bootable CD-R for it for VAX platforms. I'm also working with another fellow to get a tape-bootable image going for them. My next attempts will be at bootable CD's for Alpha, ARC, and possibly others. For those of you that are into both ham radio and old computers, I've rescued an AEA PAKRATT-64 from the local thrift store. This beastie was used in conjunction with the Commodore-64 systems to provide amateur packet communications. Maybe it's usable for RTTY as well? Anyway, I'll be putting the thing up on E-pay as soon as I clean it up and do some basic checks on it. It's not classic, per se, but I have a new laptop that I've loaded down with engineering and reference apps. It'll be, in essence, my "field guide" on steroids. The only other thing I can think of at the moment is that, for some reason as yet unknown to my conscious mind, I've developed a serious interest in the former Bell System. As a result, I've started collecting memorabilia in the form of tools, phones (back to the mid-70's or so... anything earlier doesn't really thrill me), decals, a Bell hard hat, and especially the old BSP's (Bell System Practices) and other technical docs. Soooooo.... if any of you happen to come across Bell System/Western Electric/phone stuff in your travels to recover computer hardware, I would appreciate at least knowing about it. There may be something I want! ;-) Conversely, if someone comes across, say, a Bell dataset or something else that you need details on, let me know. I may have the BSP that covers it. I can scan it and turn it into a .PDF if need be. Thanks much, keep the peace(es), and have a terrific holiday. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 17 03:49:02 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... In-Reply-To: "Mike Kenzie" "Re: The debate on what per say is a mini..." (Dec 16, 16:50) References: <10012160127.ZM15677@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> <003101c067aa$2ad61bb0$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <10012170949.ZM16589@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 16, 16:50, Mike Kenzie wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pete Turnbull" > To: > Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 8:27 PM > Subject: Re: The debate on what per say is a mini... > > > In the end, we found it better to switch one off. > > Moral: there is such a thing as overkill, and such a thing as > > over-engineering. > The second machine when it detected trouble with the primary > would power off the first machine (Shoot The Other Node In > The Head). It was quit impressive but had me thinking of > VMS and MVS and wishing everyone would talk to each other > instead of reinventing the wheel. Yes, I must admit when we sat down to discuss the supposedly-failsafe servers at a meeting, I couldn't help thinking "VAX" and "cluster". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 18 01:07:12 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: New Find: Sanyo Navigator - has crt problems In-Reply-To: <20001217211355.60439.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Ethan Dicks wrote: > It was "blue tag" day at the thrift store - 50% off. I found this black box > with a 9" crt, telephone and floppy drive. There was a bit of thermal fax > paper hanging out the back and the top lifted off to reveal a paper input > hopper. The whole thing seems to be a piece of office equipment, c. 1990, > consisting of an integrated phone, fax and 8086-based PC. As a quick aside, I have a thrift store like the one you describe in my area that has a 50% discount each week based on the color of the price tag. So if the price tag is blue and the week's color is blue then you get 50% off. These stores seem to be everywhere, as I also found some when I was doing lots of work in Raleigh, NC. So the reason I'm bringing this up is I'm wondering how a chain thrift store like this operates. They don't seem to be contributing to any charitable cause, and as far as I can tell, they are just resellers of people's discarded crap. Does anyone know how these guys operate? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Mon Dec 18 01:10:35 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <003901c06899$89db27a0$2012f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > Can no one i.d. these computers from Superman 3? > > http://home.earthlink.net/~wmsmith/SupIIIComp.jpg I looked...I'm stumped. Damn, that water-marking is annoying as hell. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Dec 18 04:37:41 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #457 Message-ID: <00Dec18.103751gmt.46093@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> > Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:40:07 -0500 > From: Joe > Subject: Re: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) > > Adrian, > > I had* a couple of Zydacron Z-220 CODEC Video Conferencing > cards that > handled both NTSC and PAL. They didn't have TV tuners so I > don't know if They wouldn't have done then - I need something that can tune to PAL-I channel 36 and whatever channel the NTSC machines poke out :) > Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 06:51:28 +0000 > From: Jim Arnott > Subject: Virus/worm? > > This morning I received a post to classiccmp from > 'null@domain2.bigpond.com' containing an executable entitled > 'CAHFPJCA.EXE'. I run a Mac, so it's no threat to me, but folks > running the 90% solution might want to be careful... Digest mode's great - I just got a load of MIME that I couldn't have run even if I wanted to :) > ------------------------------ > > Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:19:12 -0000 > From: Miller Scott Contr 30CS/FTI > Subject: RE: TV Tuner cards (on topic, honest :) > > I just picked up a Pinnacle Systems Studio PCTVpro at Office > Depot for about > $80. It does NTSC, PAL, and SECAM. Or at least it says it > does... I don't > have anything besides NTSC to test it with. That's odd. I'm sure I looked at the PCTV Pro over here and it didn't mention NTSC.....have to check again at lunchtime - there's a PC World 5 minutes from here. > ------------------------------ > > Date: 15 Dec 00 19:09:40 +0100 > From: "Iggy Drougge" > Subject: Re: TV cards/WOZ disks > > Adrian Graham skrev: > > >It's the official C= D23 to red/white/yellow RCA type > connectors to plug > >into a 1084 monitor or any CVBS supporting monitor like the > Philips CM8833. > > It would be rather silly venture to plug a composite signal > into a 1084 or an > 8833. Granted, it would certainly work (I do that, for > technical reasons), but > these monitors will happily accept RGB, and should be fed accordi Not when you haven't got an RGB cable and only have the proper CVBS one complete with stereo audio :) I've only ever ran Amigas on either an old DEC Rainbow colour monitor (RGB Sync on green) or a 1084ST (CVBS). > ------------------------------ > > Date: 16 Dec 00 00:23:00 +0100 > From: "Iggy Drougge" > Subject: Olivetti PC1 > > Extremely compact, CPU and keyboard integrated into a home > micro-ish console, > with 3,5" drives protruding from the top of the keyboard. > Runs on a NEC V40 > and has got a CGA adapter. Apparently the sound is "hi-fi". > But look at the design! Drool. > > Was this radical design ever released, though? Has anyone got a PC1? Wot, the Olivetti Prodest PC1? Ho yus. Definitely released and if I'd had my wits about me a few weeks ago I could've had both single and dual floppy versions, one complete with monitor, for 5 or 10 of your english pounds. Unfortunately I'd run out of both time and money! cheers! From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Mon Dec 18 06:00:37 2000 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Fwd: Atari in hospital Message-ID: This link has just appeared in slashdot. I guess it deserves a closer look: http://www.asw.cz/~kubecj/aczhwho.htm Note the last photo... :-) Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Mon Dec 18 10:23:34 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: RL01/RL02 In-Reply-To: <200012171750.MAA04142@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <000001c0690e$df09e480$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> > The RL01/02 pocket service guide is still avalable > from Compaq, $42, http://www.digital.com/dassearch.html, > enter rl01 r101 entry Did Not work. 11/34 entry yielded this, however: EK-34105-IP PDP-11/34 16 BIT COMPUTER (10 21.00 Y Z This can't mean that 11/34's are $21 bucks ?!?!? John A. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 10:26:45 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Early Hayes Modems Message-ID: Umm, I threw a couple of them away last year, no particularly interesting parts inside them either.. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Dec 18 10:40:53 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... Message-ID: I have seen several articles on why companies are choosing mainframes as servers for PC networks. 1. Scalability If you need a PC based server for every 100 PC's and a system administrator for each server and you have 2000 PC's then you need 20 system administrators, also 20 backups, also 20 sets of passwords, permissions and rights lists. How do you keep the systems synchronized and running. Logistics nightmare. 2. Predictability. You can buy a "mainframe" from IBM and know what costs, licenses, and hardware will cost. Your software probably won't need an infinite number of patches to run. You can buy known network and backup solutions. 3. Stable OS. The operating system is a known quantity with predictable costs to support. You can hire staff that have mainframe experience. 4. IBM actually is selling more "mainframe" hardware than ever before. Enough with the big iron. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From oliv555 at arrl.net Mon Dec 18 10:45:05 2000 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: RL01/RL02 References: <000001c0690e$df09e480$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: <3A3E3F11.55A029FA@arrl.net> John Allain wrote: > > > The RL01/02 pocket service guide is still avalable > > from Compaq, $42, http://www.digital.com/dassearch.html, > > enter rl01 > > r101 entry Did Not work. > > 11/34 entry yielded this, however: > > EK-34105-IP PDP-11/34 16 BIT COMPUTER (10 21.00 Y Z > > This can't mean that 11/34's are $21 bucks ?!?!? > > John A. EK was DEC's designation for documentation. The IP is probably saying that this is the illustrated parts book. 21 bucks is about right for that. nick o From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Dec 18 11:14:20 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: RL01/RL02 In-Reply-To: <000001c0690e$df09e480$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> References: <200012171750.MAA04142@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001218091311.0210ae70@208.226.86.10> And just because it is on Compaq's price list doesn't mean it is actually available. They claim to have the KA680 and KA670 CPU technical manuals available but when I called to order them they admitted they didn't have any in stock and they were not going to print them ever again. --Chuck At 11:23 AM 12/18/00 -0500, you wrote: > > The RL01/02 pocket service guide is still avalable > > from Compaq, $42, http://www.digital.com/dassearch.html, > > enter rl01 > >r101 entry Did Not work. > >11/34 entry yielded this, however: > >EK-34105-IP PDP-11/34 16 BIT COMPUTER (10 21.00 Y Z > >This can't mean that 11/34's are $21 bucks ?!?!? > >John A. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Dec 18 10:57:11 2000 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: RL01/RL02 Message-ID: <20001218.110659.-505337.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 12:50:34 -0500 David Gesswein writes: > >From: Jeffrey l Kaneko > >I hope some day, maybe some kind person will do the same > >for the RL02. > > > I put up the RL01/02 user guide, search on RL01 or RL02 at > http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/query.pl > sorry, don't have printset/maintenance manual. Wow, thanks David! This is a *very* interesting document, and as per usual, has lots of useful information . . . Thanks again! Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Dec 18 10:48:48 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: New Find: Sanyo Navigator - has crt problems In-Reply-To: References: <20001217211355.60439.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3A3DF9A0.9916.E89AEFF@localhost> > On Sun, 17 Dec 2000, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > It was "blue tag" day at the thrift store - 50% off. I found this > > black box with a 9" crt, telephone and floppy drive. There was a > > bit of thermal fax paper hanging out the back and the top lifted off > > to reveal a paper input hopper. The whole thing seems to be a piece > > of office equipment, c. 1990, consisting of an integrated phone, fax > > and 8086-based PC. > > As a quick aside, I have a thrift store like the one you describe in > my area that has a 50% discount each week based on the color of the > price tag. So if the price tag is blue and the week's color is blue > then you get 50% off. These stores seem to be everywhere, as I also > found some when I was doing lots of work in Raleigh, NC. > > So the reason I'm bringing this up is I'm wondering how a chain thrift > store like this operates. They don't seem to be contributing to any > charitable cause, and as far as I can tell, they are just resellers of > people's discarded crap. > > Does anyone know how these guys operate? > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer > Festival I just picked up a Mitromac 40 external SCSI HD for $1.50 on the same sort of deal at a local Goodwill. TMK Goodwills only charitable contribution is providing jobs. They claim it is job-training for the unskilled but it doesn't take much training to sort boxes and operate a cash-register. At one time they did do some repair on used items requiring at least repair skills, but now they just sell everything with an as-is sticker making it non-returnable. Here they've even managed to get into a provincialy subsidized work for welfare program so they have even less than the minimum wage rates to pay. By that criteria even Walmart is a charitable organization. There are some other thifts that actually do some charitable return and others that make no pretense about not having a bottom line. It would be interesting to see Goodwills dispersions. I imagine the upper execs do quite well, thankyou. ciao larry program Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From flo at rdel.co.uk Mon Dec 18 11:47:51 2000 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: RL01/RL02 References: <200012171750.MAA04142@drs-esg.com> <5.0.0.25.2.20001218091311.0210ae70@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3A3E4DC7.F2B9141C@rdel.co.uk> Chuck McManis wrote: > > And just because it is on Compaq's price list doesn't mean it is > actually available. They claim to have the KA680 and KA670 CPU > technical manuals available but when I called to order them they > admitted they didn't have any in stock and they were not going to > print them ever again. This was also a friend's experience when attempting to order the VT100 User Guide. I wish they'd remove these items from their price list, because it would make me feel happier about scanning them. From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 18 10:47:50 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Early Hayes Modems References: Message-ID: <000001c0691c$bf721760$1192fea9@idcomm.com> ... a foolish thing to do. I got $250 or so for mine. Of course they were fully functional and complete with doc's etc. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Jennings" To: Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 9:26 AM Subject: Re: Early Hayes Modems > Umm, I threw a couple of them away last year, no particularly interesting > parts inside them either.. > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 12:17:27 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: RL01/RL02 Message-ID: Somewhere I have the RL01 printset, and also the RLV11 (or is it 12?) printset... I also have 3 M8061's, one RL11, and at least one of the other qbus interfaces, should anyone need one. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From markp at wccls.lib.or.us Mon Dec 18 12:55:26 2000 From: markp at wccls.lib.or.us (Mark Price) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person Message-ID: >-----Original Message----- >From: Iggy Drougge [mailto:optimus@canit.se] >Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 4:35 PM >To: Lawrence Walker >Subject: Re: Atari questions from non-Atari person >Lawrence Walker skrev: >> Whoa, what magazines pray tell. I thought all of the ST zines had >>folded their cards or were unfulfilled launches. >The only serious ST print mag I know of which is still published is ST >Computer/Atari inside of Germany. However, it went subscription-only last >year, so I can't buy the occasional issue at Interpress anymore. =( Antic, a mag devoted to Atari 8-bitters, went out in '91 (I think), but check out the Digital Antic Project page at http://www.atarimagazines.com/. They've scanned and archived articles from most of magazine's run and offer a complete index. A nice resource. If someone's done something similar for the early ST, I'd like to know about it. Mark ============================== Mark Price, Library Computer Specialist Washington County Cooperative Library Services e-mail: markp@wccls.lib.or.us voice: 503-846-3230 fax: 503-846-3220 From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 13:33:06 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Fault-tolerant computers (supposedly) Message-ID: Hmm, the recent discussion about the "shoot the other node in the head" or whatever reminds me of the so-called "fault-tolerant" 486 machines I have that ran the original DIA baggage system... Hehehehe... They make very lovely end tables! Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Mon Dec 18 14:05:29 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Fault-tolerant computers (supposedly) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000601c0692d$df4faf00$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> > that ran the original DIA baggage system... Could it be that you have a machine even more despised than the Florida Vote-O-Matic booths with the special decis-E-rase buffer pads... ...Uuuh forget it. John A. Would like to get my hands on one of those and a steam roller. From Anthony.Eros at compaq.com Mon Dec 18 14:21:03 2000 From: Anthony.Eros at compaq.com (Eros, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Fault-tolerant computers (supposedly) Message-ID: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F0935F339@alfexc5.alf.dec.com> I've seen a couple of voteomatic machines (suitcase variant) on eBay... :-) -----Original Message----- From: John Allain [mailto:John.Allain@donnelley.infousa.com] Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 3:05 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: Fault-tolerant computers (supposedly) > that ran the original DIA baggage system... Could it be that you have a machine even more despised than the Florida Vote-O-Matic booths with the special decis-E-rase buffer pads... ...Uuuh forget it. John A. Would like to get my hands on one of those and a steam roller. From eweidenh1 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 18 14:39:10 2000 From: eweidenh1 at hotmail.com (Erich Weidenhammer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: GSOS 4.02 Message-ID: Does anyone out there have a copy of GSOS 4.02 in Mac Diskcopy format? This is for us losers who don't have any fancy Rom upgrades of a decent amount of Ram. As far as I can tell is isn't available on the internet. Apple, of course, has the lastest system software available but that does'nt do people like me much good. I'd really like to see GUI on my GS rather than just Prodos. If you can help let me know. Thanks all. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Dec 18 14:40:02 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Sign Me Up for a Vote-A-Matic Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3E0@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > > that ran the original DIA baggage system... > > Could it be that you have a machine even more > despised than the Florida Vote-O-Matic booths > with the special decis-E-rase buffer pads... > ...Uuuh forget it. > > John A. > Would like to get my hands on > one of those and a steam roller. No, noooo! Have you forgot the cardinal rule of computing- gigo (garbage in, garbage out)? These may be the last of the DataProducts card readers! Don't put the blame on them, when it was those garbage pre-punched cards that were to blame! For any of you who are in Florida, when, early next year (I'd guess), they outlaw the Vote-A-Matic, I'd like to get one of these dear old friends. OTOH, if anyone has one already, especially one of the models with the Pr1me colors, let me know, maybe we can work out some kind of deal. Regards, -dq From broekh at interchange.ubc.ca Mon Dec 18 15:36:32 2000 From: broekh at interchange.ubc.ca (Henry Broekhuyse) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: GSOS 4.02 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c0693a$96ce5c60$0200a8c0@thinkpad> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org > [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Erich Weidenhammer > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 12:39 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: GSOS 4.02 > > > Does anyone out there have a copy of GSOS 4.02 in Mac Diskcopy format? > This is for us losers who don't have any fancy Rom upgrades of a decent > amount of Ram. As far as I can tell is isn't available on the internet. > Apple, of course, has the lastest system software available but > that does'nt > do people like me much good. I'd really like to see GUI on my GS > rather than > just Prodos. If you can help let me know. Thanks all. > _________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. If it helps, you can find System 4 in .SDK format at http://tarnover.dyndns.org/System/ Henry Broekhuyse From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Dec 18 16:22:13 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... References: Message-ID: <002001c06940$f8f98760$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "McFadden, Mike" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 3:10 AM Subject: Re: The debate on what per say is a mini... > I have seen several articles on why companies are choosing mainframes as > servers for PC networks. > 1. Scalability If you need a PC based server for every 100 PC's and a > system administrator for each server and you have 2000 PC's then you need 20 > system administrators, also 20 backups, also 20 sets of passwords, > permissions and rights lists. How do you keep the systems synchronized and > running. Logistics nightmare. Uh, it does depend a bit on what sever O/S. NT is a nightmare, and it crashes a lot, though it's quite stable if no-one is using it,(!) another Catholic School in the next town has an uptime on an NT box around the 400 day mark, but it has no user access, and just runs a proxy and dhcp server. Unix, though infinitely more stable, is not an ideal platform to integrate into a PC Win9x environment, (yes, I know about Samba, but it has its share of problems as well.). The best of the breed for this appears (IMHO) to be Novell Netware. It allows multiple servers in a single directory services tree, and it's quite feasible for one or two suitably trained individuals to preside over quite a large network. There are also high reliablilty variants available. > 2. Predictability. You can buy a "mainframe" from IBM and know what costs, > licenses, and hardware will cost. Your software probably won't need an > infinite number of patches to run. You can buy known network and backup > solutions. True enough. Substitute DEC^H^H^H Compaq Alpha for IBM and Tru64 or VMS for the O/S and similar things apply. Compatibility, particularly in the document/spreadsheet/database environment with other organisations who are mostly using MS crud is more of a problem, (in the school environment it would be very difficult) > 3. Stable OS. The operating system is a known quantity with predictable > costs to support. You can hire staff that have mainframe experience. > 4. IBM actually is selling more "mainframe" hardware than ever before. IF you are big enough to afford it. Yes. Those of us without the IT budget of BHP (Hmmm, make it US Steel for the US types) would find it impossible to contemplate. But it would be nice, though I think I would fancy DEC/Compaq over IBM personally, (and yes, I realise an Alphaserver with X x 1Ghz CPU's and 1Gb of ram is not a mainframe, but then a System 390 is just one box these days too.) > Enough with the big iron. Can never have enough Big Iron. Bite your tongue. ;^) (Looks at Vax 6000-440 in machine room) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au ICQ: 1970476 From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Dec 18 16:25:29 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Semicon storage Message-ID: Semiconductor storage solution What you really need to do is place each semiconductor chip in a individual case lined with black foam with a barcode on the outside of the case. You then have a database that knows which barcode is which chip. You have a huge bin filled with bar-coded cases and a robot arm that picks up each case examines the barcode and then if it's not the correct one drops the case into another huge bin. When the robot is through sorting the bin then you have two pieces of information the, identify of all of your chips and an inventory. We really should think of elegant computer solutions for problems that deal with computers instead of simple mechanical ones. This solution would involve robots, computer vision, barcodes, scanning and databases. You could create an entire industry to solve a simple problem, start a company, have a IPO, make millions, laugh all the way to the bank. That's what computers are for to keep track of other computers. Mike :) PS I'm just kidding!! mmcfadden@cmh.edu From marvin at rain.org Mon Dec 18 16:54:13 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Sign Me Up for a Vote-A-Matic References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3E0@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <3A3E9595.E6ABEE23@rain.org> Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > For any of you who are in Florida, when, early next > year (I'd guess), they outlaw the Vote-A-Matic, I'd > like to get one of these dear old friends. Hmmm, something way in the back of my mind says that a company I used to work for (Gyrex Corporation) made some type of vote tallying system, and Vote-A-Matic seems to ring a bell. Does Vote-Tally ring a bell with anyone? From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Dec 18 17:16:51 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: GSOS 4.02 In-Reply-To: <000401c0693a$96ce5c60$0200a8c0@thinkpad> from Henry Broekhuyse at "Dec 18, 0 01:36:32 pm" Message-ID: <200012182316.PAA12444@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > If it helps, you can find System 4 in .SDK format at > http://tarnover.dyndns.org/System/ > > Henry Broekhuyse Any way I can convert this to a Disk Copy 4.2 .img? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Never eat more than you can lift. -- Miss Piggy ---------------------------- From ahm at spies.com Mon Dec 18 17:07:58 2000 From: ahm at spies.com (Andreas Meyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Early Hayes Modems In-Reply-To: <00e001c06774$51e3e150$1ec7fec7@pcat>; from Gene Buckle on Sat, Dec 16, 2000 at 07:24:45AM -0800 References: <3A3B6838.437B@azstarnet.com> <00e001c06774$51e3e150$1ec7fec7@pcat> Message-ID: <20001218180758.C23132@spies.com> Gene Buckle writes: > Does anyone here know where I can obtain a Hayes Chronograph? I vaguely remember those, but I can't remember what they do. (I mean, I know it's a clock. :) From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Dec 18 18:03:47 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Semicon storage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > huge bin filled with bar-coded cases and a robot arm that picks up each case > examines the barcode and then if it's not the correct one drops the case > into another huge bin. When the robot is through sorting the bin then you > have two pieces of information the, identify of all of your chips and an > inventory. > > We really should think of elegant computer solutions for problems that deal > with computers instead of simple mechanical ones. This solution would > involve robots, computer vision, barcodes, scanning and databases. You > could create an entire industry to solve a simple problem, start a company, > have a IPO, make millions, laugh all the way to the bank. Two words: Lego Mindstorm. :) g. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Dec 18 17:44:10 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: GSOS 4.02 In-Reply-To: <000401c0693a$96ce5c60$0200a8c0@thinkpad> from Henry Broekhuyse at "Dec 18, 0 01:36:32 pm" Message-ID: <200012182344.PAA11452@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > If it helps, you can find System 4 in .SDK format at > http://tarnover.dyndns.org/System/ Never mind -- I installed nulib on stockholm, but it's whining that those files are corrupt. I used lynx -dump to download them, so it shouldn't have gotten munged in the transfer (the server insists the files are text/plain, not application/octet-stream, though). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The world will end at 3 p.m. today, to be followed by a brief symposium. --- From geneb at deltasoft.com Mon Dec 18 18:32:27 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Early Hayes Modems In-Reply-To: <20001218180758.C23132@spies.com> Message-ID: > Gene Buckle writes: > > Does anyone here know where I can obtain a Hayes Chronograph? > > I vaguely remember those, but I can't remember what they do. > (I mean, I know it's a clock. :) It's basically a clock you can talk to using special AT commands. It came in the same aluminum extrusion case that the Hayes 300,1200 and 2400 baud modems came it. It was part of the Hayes Stack family if memory serves. It had two serial connectors on it - one went to the serial port on the host, the other connected to another (typically Hayes) modem. OBTrivia: The Hayes Smartmodem 300 could send morse code using "AT C" followed by the dot/dash sequence you wanted. Did any other modem have this ability? g. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 18 17:56:47 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Non charity thrift stores In-Reply-To: References: <20001217211355.60439.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >So the reason I'm bringing this up is I'm wondering how a chain thrift >store like this operates. They don't seem to be contributing to any >charitable cause, and as far as I can tell, they are just resellers of >people's discarded crap. > >Does anyone know how these guys operate? Duh! they are wholesale buyers from legitimate charity stores. The big Goodwill near me has a LARGE auction every morning except Sunday. Every charity I know of has a backdoor wholesale operation as well as the store front retail sales. Storage unit auctions is another source. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 18 19:14:13 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: GSOS 4.02 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1052.206.112.109.132.977188453.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> > Does anyone out there have a copy of GSOS 4.02 in Mac Diskcopy > format? IIRC, System 4 for the Apple IIgs is not GS/OS, it's ProDOS 16. From claudew at sprint.ca Mon Dec 18 21:23:08 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: VT180/Robin system help needed Message-ID: <3A3ED49C.62156F62@sprint.ca> Hi Picked up 2 boxes full of VT180 stuff from a ex Digital employee. Got a keyboard, Vt100 and robin board, small "backplane" board, 2 Shuggart 400L Digital branded drives and 4 RX50-AA drives. Also got a VT100 keyboard and a VT100 power supply and several cables. Seems everything is there except VT100 case/crt...could always build this in some full/half tower AT PC case...still I will hunt for a VT100...this is for collecting and not using really... The owner told me the Robin board was modified to use 1M drives (?). There are a couple ou wire jumpers on the Robin board. Also got some disks, Robin schematics, a few CP/M manuals... Questions:(I have not looked at the schematics yet......) 2 BNC connectors on the Robin board. Whats coming outta there? video? on both? composite? What drives should I be using to boot the Robin? The RX50-AAs or the Shugarts 400L? I see 2 DB25 ports on the Robin board and a larger (DBxx) on the VT100 board, anything special? DIP switches on VT100...whats the deal there? Anything else I should look out for? Anybody know where VT180 info is available...I would like to see the guts of one... Thanks for the Help again Claude The Canuk Computer Collector From claudew at sprint.ca Mon Dec 18 21:46:00 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: Free/trade DEC stuff Message-ID: <3A3ED9F8.FB9E7D74@sprint.ca> Hi I know a lot of people collect Digital stuff on here. But I have no idea of how rare or un-rare this is: This will most likely go into garbage soon - at next major bi-monthly cleanup. I got a DEC LA100 logic board in a lot of DEC Robin stuff. I have no use for this LA100 board. No idea if it works. Looks complete and in good shape, no apparent damage or missing parts. Tags on eproms had fallen of. Perhaps EPROM data is now corrupt. I also have a DEC RRD42-AA (SCSI) CdroM drive. Dont know if it works. Not dead when power applied. Takes and ejects caddy/cd. It was with some parts I got from someone with a VAX8350...perhaps that was used with it (?) I had forgotten about this...pretty sure this is a 1X unit. Needs a caddy. Free or will accept anything you wanna throw out that might interest me in return. Shpping will be from Montreal Canada. Expect maybe $5US-$10US for shipping costs. I have been posting quite a bit of stuff for free/trade lately. I try to post anything "interesting" and in great shape before I throw out. Sometimes perhaps it's not too interesting. If it's getting to some people - tell me. Claude The Canuk Computer Collector (It's cold up here now...time to hide in basement and restore some computers...) From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Dec 18 22:06:21 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: VT180/Robin system help needed Message-ID: <008101c06971$29c23bf0$c4759a8d@ajp166> From: Claude >The owner told me the Robin board was modified to use 1M drives (?). >There are a couple ou wire jumpers on the Robin board. Also got some >disks, Robin schematics, a few CP/M manuals... 1m???? maybe two sided 8". the best you can do with it is 800k using 80tr/2sided DD. >2 BNC connectors on the Robin board. Whats coming outta there? video? on >both? composite? Those are on the VT100 board. Video in and video out, VT100 can sync to external video. Makes a fair char gen. >What drives should I be using to boot the Robin? The RX50-AAs or the >Shugarts 400L? SA400s but if he modded the boot roms then anything goes. >I see 2 DB25 ports on the Robin board and a larger (DBxx) on the VT100 >board, anything special? larger DB (37 pins) is on the VT180 card and is the FDC connector. The VT180 is the 54-15152 board { z80, 64k dram, 4 8251s, 1793}. >DIP switches on VT100...whats the deal there? config for AVO, serial port (DTR/DTC if memory serves). >Anything else I should look out for? > >Anybody know where VT180 info is available...I would like to see the >guts of one... the Vt180 design is near textbook z80 without zilog peripherals. I have a fair amount but,not scanned. I've hacked the board hard. I bought a box of Vt180 cards (about 20 of them) and mods I've worked include: Standalone (no VT100 required) 2 sided Z80 @6mhz Modded bios for 782k on 3.5" floppy IDE interface hacks CP/M in ROM Extended ROMs and paged ram I've used it as a stand alone printerbuffer. Allison From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Dec 18 20:19:00 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: 11/34 troubles Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001218201204.01966a98@208.226.86.129> I hate it when I do this. So I started playing around with the 11/34 and discover that 2 bits aren't being set on the words I try to load into memory. I guess it is perhaps bad memory, I don't have a way to test it other than to load in a program from the front panel, so I pull the memory and replace it with 64KW that are known to be good. Now it shows the top 4 bits as being stuck on. I pull the memory, blow out the connectors, look for loose dirt etc that I've missed, reseat the memory but no joy. Everything else seems to be working so the next suspect is the KY-11B, if it had lost a buffer it could exhibit this behaviour. I pull the KY-11B and check it out, it looks ok so I clean out the connectors where it is seated and re-install. No joy, 4 bits stuck. Now I'm really irritated, so I take the KY11B from my working 11/34 and replace it, great all the bits work. Ok so I've got a KY11B to fix. Not too much of a problem since it is pretty simple. I put back the original memory and now I get BUS ERR whenever I try to touch memory. Ok, figure the memory board was bad and put the good board back in so that I can work on the RL11 but wait, now it also gives me a BUS ERR indication. I check to make sure I haven't dislodged any of the stubby grant cards, they are fine, pull the terminator and move it up to the end of the first back plane. Still I get the BUS ERR indication. ARGH! --Chuck From g.wheeler at worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 19 02:25:01 2000 From: g.wheeler at worldnet.att.net (Gary M. Wheeler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:45 2005 Subject: HP plotters Message-ID: <000301c06995$2ffb0f00$68affea9@att.net> re: From: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk Date: 09/03/99-07:23:55 AM Z >I like the idea of a router in the pen part of a plotter - but it's a lot of >mass for the pen carriage to move around! > >Philip. Am working on a router table based on the HP 7225A single pen 8 1/2"x11" flatbed plotter. To make architectural models out of foam etc. Built an aluminum gantry-crane type arrangement that supports a Dremel tool. Tried to keep mass and friction low as possible. Connected it to the plotter with a pantograph arrangement. The plotter will drive the dremel tool well at slow speed. HOWEVER, when the plotter gets the message "PU" pen up, it RACES to the next x,y coordinate. This quick movement throws calibration and accuracy off. The other problem is printing from a Windows CAD program to an old plotter like this. Gary Gary M. Wheeler, AIA home page: http://g.wheeler.home.att.net From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 19 03:09:46 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: New Find: Sanyo Navigator - has crt problems In-Reply-To: <3A3DF9A0.9916.E89AEFF@localhost> References: <20001217211355.60439.qmail@web9507.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > TMK Goodwills only charitable contribution is providing jobs. They Goodwill isn't just ONE operation. Goodwill Industries is an employer of moderate to fairly severly handicaped people, who do jobs like pack products, and very simple inspection and/or assembly (gift baskets). Typically some kind of corporate "sponsor" is also envolved, ie Paul Newman used them for gift baskets last year for his line of food products. This is the face of Goodwill I have the most respect for. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 19 03:22:14 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: HP plotters In-Reply-To: <000301c06995$2ffb0f00$68affea9@att.net> Message-ID: >Built an aluminum gantry-crane type arrangement that supports a Dremel tool. >Tried to keep mass and friction low as possible. Connected it to the plotter >with a pantograph arrangement. Anybody else have some mechanical alarm bells going off at the notion of a dremel on the end of a pantograph? I would maybe use some parts from existing printers and or scanners, but this sounds like a build from scrap project, not adapt a old plotter. Basic problem is just what you mention, you are going to need to rewrite control software, which for a basic x/y plotter can't be too awfully tough. From djg at drs-esg.com Tue Dec 19 06:18:36 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: RL01/RL02 Message-ID: <200012191218.HAA28177@drs-esg.com> >From: "John Allain" >Subject: RE: RL01/RL02 >> The RL01/02 pocket service guide is still avalable >> from Compaq, $42, http://www.digital.com/dassearch.html, >> enter rl01 > >r101 entry Did Not work. > Is it RL01, not R101. (either case works) >From: Paul Williams >Subject: Re: RL01/RL02 > >This was also a friend's experience when attempting to order the VT100 >User Guide. I wish they'd remove these items from their price list, >because it would make me feel happier about scanning them. > Thats annoying, I know that before Compaq when I ordered stuff they didn't have it did leave the price list some time later. I was also assuming that when people can't buy them they would go away so I can put them online. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 19 07:51:26 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Sign Me Up for a Vote-A-Matic In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3E0@tegntserver.tegjeff .com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001219085126.3b7fee3a@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 03:40 PM 12/18/00 -0500, you wrote: >> > that ran the original DIA baggage system... >> >> Could it be that you have a machine even more >> despised than the Florida Vote-O-Matic booths >> with the special decis-E-rase buffer pads... >> ...Uuuh forget it. >> >> John A. >> Would like to get my hands on >> one of those and a steam roller. > >No, noooo! Have you forgot the cardinal rule of >computing- gigo (garbage in, garbage out)? > >These may be the last of the DataProducts card >readers! Don't put the blame on them, when it >was those garbage pre-punched cards that were >to blame! > >For any of you who are in Florida, when, early next >year (I'd guess), they outlaw the Vote-A-Matic, I'd >like to get one of these dear old friends. Hmmm, I haven't thought of it but I guess they'll be an instant collectible. I'll have to start watching for them at the auctions. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 19 07:48:54 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Fault-tolerant computers (supposedly) In-Reply-To: <000601c0692d$df4faf00$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001219084854.3b7fbacc@mailhost.intellistar.net> " Florida Vote-O-Matic booths" The problem wasn't the voting machines. It was that a lot of voters couldn't even manage to poke a hole in the paper card (or they made more than one hole in a single catagory). For some strange reason, this occurred mainly in heavily Democratic precincts. I'll let you draw your own conclusions about that. Joe in Florida, At 03:05 PM 12/18/00 -0500, John wrote: > >> that ran the original DIA baggage system... > >Could it be that you have a machine even more >despised than the Florida Vote-O-Matic booths >with the special decis-E-rase buffer pads... >...Uuuh forget it. > >John A. >Would like to get my hands on >one of those and a steam roller. > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 19 08:13:45 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: OT. THE TWELVE RECOUNTS OF CHRISTMAS was Sign Me Up for a Vote-A-Matic Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001219091345.3b7fcdbc@mailhost.intellistar.net> >Subject: THE TWELVE RECOUNTS OF CHRISTMAS > >THE TWELVE RECOUNTS OF CHRISTMAS > >On the first recount of Christmas my country gave to me > ...a disputed presidency. > >On the second recount of Christmas my country gave to me > ...two campaign spins, and a disputed presidency. > >On the third recount of Christmas my country gave to me > ...three pregnant chads, two campaign spins, and a disputed presidency. > >On the fourth recount of Christmas my country gave to me > ...four contested ballots, three pregnant chads, two campaign spins, > and a disputed presidency. > >On the fifth recount of Christmas my country gave to me > ...five court filings! Four contested ballots, three pregnant chads, > two campaign spins, and a disputed presidency. > >On the sixth recount of Christmas my country gave to me > ...six disenfranchised voters, five... court filings! > Four contested ballots, three pregnant chads, two campaign spins, > and a disputed presidency. > >On the seventh recount of Christmas my country gave to me > ...seven politicians babbling, six disenfranchised voters, > five court filings! Four contested ballots, three pregnant chads, > two campaign spins, and a disputed presidency. > >On the eighth recount of Christmas my country gave to me > ...eight spokesmen whining, seven politicians babbling, six >disenfranchised voters, five court filings! Four contested ballots, > three pregnant chads, two campaign spins, and a disputed presidency. > >On the ninth recount of Christmas my country gave to me > ...nine reporters guessing, eight spokesmen whining, > seven politicians babbling, six disenfranchised voters, > five court filings! Four contested ballots, three pregnant chads, > two campaign spins, and a disputed presidency. > >On the tenth recount of Christmas my country gave to me > ...ten legal rulings,nine reporters guessing, eight spokesmen whining, >seven politicians babbling, six disenfranchised voters, five court >filings! Four contested ballots, three pregnant chads, two campaign >spins, and a disputed presidency. > >On the eleventh recount of Christmas my country gave to me > ...eleven judges judging, ten legal rulings, nine reporters guessing, >eight spokesmen whining, seven politicians babbling, > six disenfranchised voters, five court filings! Four contested ballots, >three pregnant chads, two campaign spins, and a disputed presidency. > >On the twelfth recount of Christmas my country gave to me > ...twelve lawyers lying, eleven judges judging, ten legal rulings, > nine reporters guessing, eight spokesmen whining, seven politicians >babbling, six disenfranchised voters, five court filings! > Four contested ballots, three pregnant chads, two campaign spins, and...a >disputed presidency. > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 19 08:21:07 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: HP plotters In-Reply-To: <000301c06995$2ffb0f00$68affea9@att.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001219092107.396f666a@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:25 AM 12/19/00 -0800, you wrote: >re: From: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk >Date: 09/03/99-07:23:55 AM Z > >>I like the idea of a router in the pen part of a plotter - but it's a lot >of >>mass for the pen carriage to move around! >> >>Philip. > >Am working on a router table based on the HP 7225A single pen 8 1/2"x11" >flatbed plotter. To make architectural models out of foam etc. > >Built an aluminum gantry-crane type arrangement that supports a Dremel tool. >Tried to keep mass and friction low as possible. Connected it to the plotter >with a pantograph arrangement. > >The plotter will drive the dremel tool well at slow speed. HOWEVER, when >the plotter gets the message "PU" pen up, it RACES to the next x,y >coordinate. This quick movement throws calibration and accuracy off. > > I've used a HP 7550 plotter attached to a PC running Windows 3.1. You can specify both the acceration and maximum pen speed in the Win 3.1 "Printer Setup". >The other problem is printing from a Windows CAD program to an old plotter >like this. You might try telling the computer that it's a 7550 plotter since they both use HP-GL. The 7550 has automatic sheet feed but I think you can disable that in the "Printer Setup". The 7225 definitely won't be able to match the 7550 in pen speed and acceleration so you'll have to do some tweaking there. Joe From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Dec 19 07:23:04 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: 11/34 troubles In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001218201204.01966a98@208.226.86.129> from Chuck McManis at "Dec 18, 2000 08:19:00 pm" Message-ID: <200012191323.eBJDN4N26866@bg-tc-ppp595.monmouth.com> > Now I'm really irritated, so I take the KY11B from my working 11/34 and > replace it, great all the bits work. Ok so I've got a KY11B to fix. Not too > much of a problem since it is pretty simple. I put back the original memory > and now I get BUS ERR whenever I try to touch memory. Ok, figure the memory > board was bad and put the good board back in so that I can work on the RL11 > but wait, now it also gives me a BUS ERR indication. I check to make sure I > haven't dislodged any of the stubby grant cards, they are fine, pull the > terminator and move it up to the end of the first back plane. Still I get > the BUS ERR indication. ARGH! > > --Chuck Check NPR-NPG jumpers... This bus err sounds familliar. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 19 08:26:27 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: College kids research Infocom Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001219082531.026fc100@pc> http://slashdot.org/articles/00/12/19/1313235.shtml but unfortunately their summary paper is a 9 meg PDF. - John From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Tue Dec 19 10:08:33 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: ASCII animation In-Reply-To: <000301c06995$2ffb0f00$68affea9@att.net> from "Gary M. Wheeler" at "Dec 19, 2000 00:25:01 am" Message-ID: <200012191608.IAA22985@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> It's not exactly an old ASCII movie, but it does show how some things can be taken to extremes. http://www.asciimation.co.nz/ Eric From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Dec 19 10:17:04 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: HP plotters Message-ID: Regarding a plotter as a router. If I remember correctly from my plotter software days, you can issue a command that slows the pen movements down. I think you can define the acceleration rate. Alternatively you can postprocessor the plotter file to find any large plotter movements and recode them as a series of smaller movements. I have actually hand typed/edited plotter commands to correct a simple error in the plot file instead of reloading the drawing into the CAD system and then replotting. I'll look at my cheat sheet of HP plotter commands tonight. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Dec 19 10:20:45 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: The debate on what per say is a mini... Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3E2@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > >I just spec'd a new fileserver for our office: > > > > Dell PowerEdge 2400 > > Dual hot-swap power supplies > > 6-bay hot-swappable drives > > RAID 1 & 5 > > 512MB ECC SDRAM > > Those run about $500 these days right? > > OT, but has anybody else been surprized at how fast the current generation > of processors are falling in price? 1.4 Ghz P4 has gone in the last couple > weeks from about $1400 to under $700. The price of that CPU *should* fall fast- a 1.2GHz P-II is faster... -dq From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Mon Dec 18 17:38:21 2000 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: VT180/Robin system help needed Message-ID: <20001219163411.62F1836B72@rhea.worldonline.nl> The RX02 has afair 77 tracks, 26 sectors at 256 bytes giving 512512 bytes. In RSX11M sources at some places an RX03 is mentioned at double RX02 capacity. This was never sold by DEC. But an 1 Mb 8" floppy is very much possible. Wim ---------- > From: ajp166 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: VT180/Robin system help needed > Date: Monday, December 18, 2000 8:06 PM > > From: Claude > >The owner told me the Robin board was modified to use 1M drives (?). > >There are a couple ou wire jumpers on the Robin board. Also got some > >disks, Robin schematics, a few CP/M manuals... > > > 1m???? maybe two sided 8". the best you can do with it is 800k using > 80tr/2sided DD. > > >2 BNC connectors on the Robin board. Whats coming outta there? video? on > >both? composite? > > > Those are on the VT100 board. Video in and video out, VT100 can sync to > external video. Makes a fair char gen. > > >What drives should I be using to boot the Robin? The RX50-AAs or the > >Shugarts 400L? > > > SA400s but if he modded the boot roms then anything goes. > > >I see 2 DB25 ports on the Robin board and a larger (DBxx) on the VT100 > >board, anything special? > > > larger DB (37 pins) is on the VT180 card and is the FDC connector. > The VT180 is the 54-15152 board { z80, 64k dram, 4 8251s, 1793}. > > >DIP switches on VT100...whats the deal there? > > > config for AVO, serial port (DTR/DTC if memory serves). > > >Anything else I should look out for? > > > >Anybody know where VT180 info is available...I would like to see the > >guts of one... > > > the Vt180 design is near textbook z80 without zilog peripherals. > > I have a fair amount but,not scanned. I've hacked the board hard. I > bought > a box of Vt180 cards (about 20 of them) and mods I've worked include: > > Standalone (no VT100 required) > 2 sided > Z80 @6mhz > Modded bios for 782k on 3.5" floppy > IDE interface hacks > CP/M in ROM > Extended ROMs and paged ram > > I've used it as a stand alone printerbuffer. > > Allison > From rivie at teraglobal.com Tue Dec 19 10:59:14 2000 From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: VT180/Robin system help needed In-Reply-To: <20001219163411.62F1836B72@rhea.worldonline.nl> References: <20001219163411.62F1836B72@rhea.worldonline.nl> Message-ID: >The RX02 has afair 77 tracks, 26 sectors at 256 bytes giving 512512 bytes. >In RSX11M sources at some places an RX03 is mentioned at double RX02 >capacity. This was never sold by DEC. But an 1 Mb 8" floppy is very much >possible. Also, remember that a 720K 3.5" drive (and, consequently, a DSQD 5.25" drive) is 1MB unformatted. How much you can actually get from the drive depends on the format you use. -- Roger Ivie rivie@teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 19 11:08:46 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: HP plotters References: <000301c06995$2ffb0f00$68affea9@att.net> Message-ID: <002001c069de$593b7960$1192fea9@idcomm.com> You can minimize the mass that the plotter has to transport by using one of the DREMEL tools that has a flexible cable, then support the motor independently of the plotter. I built a mechanism of that sort back in the early '80's, and it failed miserably to do what I wanted. Those plotter servos are fast at the expense of having the muscle to accomplish work. An X-Y table built from some drill rod on pillow blocks with linear bearings of which there are many relatively inexpensive types these days (check the robotics manufacturint technology mags) is not terribly difficult to build if you can get access to a machine shop with the basic equipment, i.e. lathe, vertical milling machine, surface grinder. When selecting materials, it's important to remember that steel has a typical thermals expansion coefficient of 6 ppm while aluminum has one on the order of 27 ppm/degree F. If your dimensions are referenced to a steel base, having an aluminum carriage for the "Y" feed that's pillowed on aluminum may cause some grief. The way I built mine, intended for a PCB tester of sorts, and by someone (me) who didn't know nearly enough about the job, I had to haul the motor for the "Y" feed everywhere I went.with the carriage that provided the "X" position. BTW ... a 5 TPI thread on a ball lead-screw will produce 1 mil of translation when propelled by a 1.8-degree stepper. Likewise, the pitch-diameter of a cable/pulley arrangement for hauling the carriages about needs be about 0.3183" (not easy to hold within manufacturing tolerance by an amateur, but terribly critical if you want <1.5 mil error, the industry standard having then been 3 mils) if you want 1" per revolution. However, 1.8 degrees will give you nominally 1/200". Half-stepping a 0.9-degree motor is a mite coarse. Ball lead screws are slightly heavier, but require less torque to propel the carriage. Cables worsen the potential for resonance problems, lead screws cost a lot more. It's a tough problem. The worst part is that the bearing in the handpiece on the flexible-shaft dremel can't take the side-load required for routing a hole in a PCB, though it will last a little while if all you're routing is the foil. One other thing to contemplate, by the way, is the difference between drag-cut and a climb-cut when milling/routing, since the top speed of the DREMEL tool is still on the low side for milling and drilling PCB's. There ... thats a preliminary core dump of what I encountered back twenty or so years ago. I hope I gathered what was wanted, as I couldn't find the original post. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary M. Wheeler" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 1:25 AM Subject: Re: HP plotters > re: From: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk > Date: 09/03/99-07:23:55 AM Z > > >I like the idea of a router in the pen part of a plotter - but it's a lot > of > >mass for the pen carriage to move around! > > > >Philip. > > Am working on a router table based on the HP 7225A single pen 8 1/2"x11" > flatbed plotter. To make architectural models out of foam etc. > > Built an aluminum gantry-crane type arrangement that supports a Dremel tool. > Tried to keep mass and friction low as possible. Connected it to the plotter > with a pantograph arrangement. > > The plotter will drive the dremel tool well at slow speed. HOWEVER, when > the plotter gets the message "PU" pen up, it RACES to the next x,y > coordinate. This quick movement throws calibration and accuracy off. > > The other problem is printing from a Windows CAD program to an old plotter > like this. > > Gary > > Gary M. Wheeler, AIA > home page: http://g.wheeler.home.att.net > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 19 11:13:05 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: HP plotters References: Message-ID: <002801c069de$f387e6c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> No question about it... the HPGL allows you to vary the pen acceleration, force, and speed, but the mechanism is one designed for pens and not for much side-load. The force needed to lift the pen is pretty minimal, BTW. Now, most of my experience is with the 7585B, which is a DRUM plotter, but I've used the 7550. Those much slower 72xx series models are robust enough to use for light work, but their pen mechanism, IIRC, is even less robust that that on the high-speed models. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "McFadden, Mike" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 9:17 AM Subject: Re: HP plotters > Regarding a plotter as a router. > If I remember correctly from my plotter software days, you can issue a > command that slows the pen movements down. I think you can define the > acceleration rate. Alternatively you can postprocessor the plotter file to > find any large plotter movements and recode them as a series of smaller > movements. I have actually hand typed/edited plotter commands to correct a > simple error in the plot file instead of reloading the drawing into the CAD > system and then replotting. > > I'll look at my cheat sheet of HP plotter commands tonight. > > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > > > > From rivie at teraglobal.com Tue Dec 19 11:28:09 2000 From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies Message-ID: Hooray! Whatever was preventing my access to ClassicCmp seems to have been cleared up. There's a Commodore Pet in the first Star Trek movie. It's in Kirk's apartment and is painted silver (you can see it behind him when he opens the door to let McCoy in when McCoy gives him the glasses). The fun thing about the PDP-8/e in "Three Days of the Condor" is that there was a computer magazine which used that as a trivia question, but gave the answer as being a PDP-11; they didn't print my nasty letter to the editor... Does anyone know what is used in "Rollerball"? IIRC, there are some prominent Sperry logos, but I don't know enough about Sperry equipment to be able to identify it. The secretary in "Ghostbusters" uses a DECmate II. The video phone in "Buckaroo Bonzai" is a DEC machine; the logo is covered up, but it's too small to be a Pro, so it's either a Rainbow or a DECmate II. There's a forest of Crays in "Reno Williams", although the actual user interface is done on a PC. I presume the forest of Crays was done with mirrors. -- Roger Ivie rivie@teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 19 11:45:50 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: VT180/Robin system help needed In-Reply-To: <008101c06971$29c23bf0$c4759a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: > From: Claude > >The owner told me the Robin board was modified to use 1M drives (?). On Mon, 18 Dec 2000, ajp166 wrote: > 1m???? maybe two sided 8". the best you can do with it is 800k using > 80tr/2sided DD. IF somebody were to refer to "unformatted capacity", then 80 track 2 head DD (300 RPM recorded at 250K bps) could be called "1 M". The same way that Next calls their 2.8M "4 M" (and 1.4M is 2M unformatted) It used to be quite common for diskettes to be labelled with "unformatted capacity". -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From bills at adrenaline.com Tue Dec 19 11:54:34 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? Message-ID: Ok, I'm stumped. I bought a Sol on ebay back in September for $385.16 including shipping and insurance. I think the one I got is in better shape and it has a lower serial number. Why did this one go for so much? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1201894666&ed=9771987 70 Bill From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 19 12:09:32 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? References: Message-ID: <3A3FA45C.36A88F94@rain.org> Wow, that is impressive! This is the Christmas season and people seem more likely to pay higher amounts for stuff they want as opposed to other times of the year. There were four different bidders so it isn't a case of "I *WANT* this; NO, I *WANT* this. Also, those auctions with a lot of pictures, such as this one, seem to bring in more interest. Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > Ok, I'm stumped. I bought a Sol on ebay back in September for > $385.16 including shipping and insurance. I think the one I > got is in better shape and it has a lower serial number. Why > did this one go for so much? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1201894666&ed=9771987 > 70 > > Bill From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 19 12:26:07 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: VT180/Robin system help needed In-Reply-To: <20001219163411.62F1836B72@rhea.worldonline.nl> from "W.B." at Dec 18, 0 03:38:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 790 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001219/fd617104/attachment.ksh From gaz_k at lineone.net Sun Dec 17 06:03:42 2000 From: gaz_k at lineone.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Hard disk Woes References: <000501c0674b$d80fdbe0$0101010a@pentium2> <002701c06773$69b76320$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <000401c06788$a53808e0$0101010a@pentium2> <001b01c0678b$25101560$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <000001c069ea$8beb6ee0$0101010a@pentium2> Richard Erlacher wrote: > Your 20GB drive is recent enough that it should probably still be under > warranty. Have you explored that? Thanks for your comments. I contacted WD and they were willing to replace the drive. However, I would prefer to find a way of getting the information back (aside from paying thousands for costly recovery). -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | Team Amiga | http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress | From gaz_k at lineone.net Sun Dec 17 10:20:21 2000 From: gaz_k at lineone.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person References: <3A3B7760.4533.4BC842E@localhost> Message-ID: <000101c069ea$90700ca0$0101010a@pentium2> Lawrence Walker wrote: > Whoa, what magazines pray tell. I thought all of the ST zines had > folded their cards or were unfulfilled launches. I meant PC magazines. I saw Calamus 9x on the cover of Computer Music. As Iggy wrote in a previous mail, the only remaining ST mag is a German subscription-only. The Mix has stopped their ST coverage (AFAIK) and Computer Shopper replaced their ST section with a section on Palm OS'. On a related note, Slashdot mentions that an Atari 800XL is being used by a Czech hospital for heart diagnostics (and the occasional game of The Lone Raider :). http://slashdot.org/articles/00/12/17/148227.shtml -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | Team Amiga | http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 19 12:29:37 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: 11/34 troubles In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001218201204.01966a98@208.226.86.129> from "Chuck McManis" at Dec 18, 0 08:19:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 809 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001219/5775665d/attachment.ksh From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Dec 19 12:40:40 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? In-Reply-To: "from Bill Sudbrink at Dec 19, 2000 12:54:34 pm" Message-ID: <200012191840.MAA22337@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Well, 2 snide answers come to mind ;) 1) Because THIS Sol is from the "Altair Era" (the magic words that increase the price somehow. I dont pretend to understand such magic, I only know its real by the process of scientific observation of the phenomenon). 2) Because anyone willing to bid that much, and who doesnt have the Common Deciency to SNIPE, deserves to overpay by several thousand dollars. -Lawrence (P.T. Barnum) LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu > Ok, I'm stumped. I bought a Sol on ebay back in September for > $385.16 including shipping and insurance. I think the one I > got is in better shape and it has a lower serial number. Why > did this one go for so much? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1201894666&ed=9771987 > 70 > > Bill > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Dec 19 12:43:12 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Olivetti PC1 In-Reply-To: <725.385T0T233981optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3A3FBA50.28996.3AAB2B97@localhost> > I'm looking through some old issue sof Your computer, and in the october '87 > issue, the cover story is Olivetti's attempt at a home PC, the PC1. > Why someone would like to have an IBM compatible at home is beyond me, but > look at the design! It's difficult to describe, but very 80s, very Italian. > Extremely compact, CPU and keyboard integrated into a home micro-ish console, > with 3,5" drives protruding from the top of the keyboard. Runs on a NEC V40 > and has got a CGA adapter. Apparently the sound is "hi-fi". > But look at the design! Drool. Jep, I've been hunting this babe for some years. > Was this radical design ever released, though? Has anyone got a PC1? YES! It was available in gray and black(!). I found one last year at a car boot sale in Ascot. Right at the entrance. Labeled at 2 GBP - well, I even forgot to haggle... Hasicly it's a PC alike/clone, based on a 8086. You may touch it next time you're in Munich :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From gregorym at cadvision.com Tue Dec 19 12:14:26 2000 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies References: Message-ID: <001e01c069e7$85ac5740$0200a8c0@marvin> The discussion of classic computers in the movies has prompted some commercial thoughts. Is there any money to be made in renting classic computers to movie makers? People in SoCal, New York, and up here in "Hollywood North" might be able to fund their hobby that way. Anyone have any experience with this? Is damage to the rented items a big risk? Did you have to provide a catalog of your systems to the Prop people? Could you add value by providing "historically accurate" setups for different eras (e.g. an Apple II with period peripherals for an early 80s film) I'd be interested in any feedback from people with experience in this area. Mark. From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 19 11:44:13 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Ok, I'm stumped. I bought a Sol on ebay back in September for > $385.16 including shipping and insurance. I think the one I > got is in better shape and it has a lower serial number. Why > did this one go for so much? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1201894666&ed=9771987 > 70 I'm shocked. This is the highest I've ever seen a Sol-20 go for. It's in great condition cosmetically, except it's missing one of the most critical parts, which is the paper logo strip and plexiglass cover on the front. It apparently was never used, which accounts for the condition. I'm surprised they were able to "fire it up" and say it's working without the caps exploding or something. It's also been modified to allow the top to be taken off without having to undo the fuse holder (a common mod, but it does involve cutting away part of the case). I think this price is a fluke. I think there's a chance this auction won't be consumated. I'd be interested to know what happens. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ncherry at home.net Tue Dec 19 13:01:31 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? References: <200012191840.MAA22337@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3A3FB08B.5E76E2AB@home.net> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > 2) Because anyone willing to bid that much, and who doesnt have the > Common Deciency to SNIPE, deserves to overpay by several thousand > dollars. Hehe, rules to live by (maybe?) 1) never bid first 2) set a limit and stick to it 3) use the snipe software. I've found some people have an ownership mentality, when it comes to ebay. It's sort of a "I saw it first and it's all mine". One thing I have to do with some snipe software is create a conditional function. If I win this cancel this, this and this ... I think you get the idea. I amy have bid too much for my ATR800 (~$350) but that's because of sedimental reasons. I also haven't seen too many ATR8000's for sale or bid so I may not have doen too badly (it was a complete system with software, drives and Atari 800). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From menadeau at mediaone.net Tue Dec 19 13:06:23 2000 From: menadeau at mediaone.net (Michael Nadeau) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? References: <3A3FA45C.36A88F94@rain.org> Message-ID: <01ef01c069ee$d1859760$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> The second-highest bidder has also placed large bids on other items, including the Apple I ($18,475), 20th anniversary Mac ($1,925), and a MIB Mac Plus ($1026). This bidder doubled the previous high bid for the Sol from $1500, but lost to someone whose other purchases have been motorcycles, Limp Bizkit CDs, and late-model scanners. My guess: The second highest-bidder is a serious collector with money to burn, but the winning bidder, who obviously also has a large disposable income, might have bought on impulse. Prices for milestone systems in good condition are going up, I think because relatively wealthy people involved in high tech have latched onto the hobby as collectors. A similar phenomenon has happened with Depression glass, which my wife collects. Martha Stewart "discovered" Depression glass, and has even had some items reproduced. Prices for rare or scarce items have gone way up, and dealers tell us it's due to a new wealthy clientele. They also believe that this is temporary and prices will moderate once the fad passes. The question for our hobby is whether the high eBay prices are a fad or a long-term trend. I'm not sure what the answer is. --Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 1:09 PM Subject: Re: $3551 Sol??? > > Wow, that is impressive! This is the Christmas season and people seem more > likely to pay higher amounts for stuff they want as opposed to other times > of the year. There were four different bidders so it isn't a case of "I > *WANT* this; NO, I *WANT* this. Also, those auctions with a lot of pictures, > such as this one, seem to bring in more interest. > > Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > > > Ok, I'm stumped. I bought a Sol on ebay back in September for > > $385.16 including shipping and insurance. I think the one I > > got is in better shape and it has a lower serial number. Why > > did this one go for so much? > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1201894666&ed=9771987 > > 70 > > > > Bill > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 19 13:46:31 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Hard disk Woes References: <000501c0674b$d80fdbe0$0101010a@pentium2> <002701c06773$69b76320$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <000401c06788$a53808e0$0101010a@pentium2> <001b01c0678b$25101560$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <000001c069ea$8beb6ee0$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <001901c069f4$630ff220$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Well, it's unlikely you can do that, since it's likely the servo information with which the drive figures out what's what is gone or at least unavailable. That's why there are backups, doncha know! If you don't do regular backups, it's because you don't care whether you lose your data. A 20 GB drive requires a 20 GB-minimum capacity on your backup device. Experience has shown me that if your backup medium doesn't exceed your system capacity, you won't have backups because it's too inconvenient to sit there and wait 12 hours for the job to finish, or because you fell asleep waiting to put in the next tape, etc. If the tape is big enough to do the job, it starts by itself, and it stops by itself, and all you do is change the tape every morning. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gareth Knight" To: Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 5:03 AM Subject: Re: Hard disk Woes > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Your 20GB drive is recent enough that it should probably still be under > > warranty. Have you explored that? > > Thanks for your comments. I contacted WD and they were willing to replace > the drive. However, I would prefer to find a way of getting the information > back (aside from paying thousands for costly recovery). > -- > Gareth Knight > Amiga Interactive Guide | Team Amiga | > http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress | > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 19 12:59:51 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: from "Roger Ivie" at Dec 19, 0 10:28:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 242 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001219/77ebbc5b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 19 12:58:25 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: HP plotters In-Reply-To: from "McFadden, Mike" at Dec 19, 0 10:17:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 458 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001219/59d3488c/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 19 13:59:08 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? References: <200012191840.MAA22337@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <001f01c069f6$2607f1a0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Dont forget that there are lots of people to whom amounts >> $100K are NOTHING. If somebody like that wants a Gorman painting or a THE Apple-][ that "Wierd Wozniak" used, he'll pay it, since he'll make another $100K next week. The fact that this particular SOL went for that much doesn't mean YOU have to pay it. I saw a board eBay-auction for $1300 one week, and, while I was dusting mine off, preparing to list it, I saw another one, much more complete, with doc's etc, end up at $10. I've still got mine. The fact that people bid up the price simply suggests that they WANT these items. That doesn't mean that someone will want them that badly the next week, though. BTW, a working computer from the "ALTAIR" era was a rare thing, since these items seldom worked as shippped. They required fix upon fix in order to get them to work at all, and if you wanted them to work correctly, you had not only the PCB layout errors to fix, and the odd circuit design errors, but the conceptual errors of the designer as well. It was not unusual for an Altair to go through 1000+ hours of reengineering, reconfiguration, and repair before it blinked its first light. That may not have been the case with a SOL, but it's not unusual for a 25-year old computer to be sold nowadays, never having computed a single byte. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence LeMay" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 11:40 AM Subject: Re: $3551 Sol??? > Well, 2 snide answers come to mind ;) > > 1) Because THIS Sol is from the "Altair Era" (the magic words that increase > the price somehow. I dont pretend to understand such magic, I only > know its real by the process of scientific observation of the phenomenon). > > 2) Because anyone willing to bid that much, and who doesnt have the > Common Deciency to SNIPE, deserves to overpay by several thousand > dollars. > > -Lawrence (P.T. Barnum) LeMay > lemay@cs.umn.edu > > > Ok, I'm stumped. I bought a Sol on ebay back in September for > > $385.16 including shipping and insurance. I think the one I > > got is in better shape and it has a lower serial number. Why > > did this one go for so much? > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1201894666&ed=9771987 > > 70 > > > > Bill > > > > From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 19 13:20:44 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? In-Reply-To: <01ef01c069ee$d1859760$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Michael Nadeau wrote: > The question for our hobby is whether the high eBay prices are a fad or a > long-term trend. I'm not sure what the answer is. In the short-term it is an inflated fad but over time the more relevant and historical machines will accrue in value respectably. But the price will be based on commonality. No Commodore 64 will ever be worth more than $20. It will take several decades for the Sol-20 to truly be worth $3,500 as a median market value. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ncherry at home.net Tue Dec 19 14:32:03 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? References: <3A3FA45C.36A88F94@rain.org> <01ef01c069ee$d1859760$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: <3A3FC5C3.380BFE65@home.net> Michael Nadeau wrote: > The question for our hobby is whether the high eBay prices are a fad or a > long-term trend. I'm not sure what the answer is. Here is the interesting part of all this we are now getting into a collection of people who are starting to realize that computer are reaching 20 years old (and older of course) and that magic number is either the classic or antique age for collectables. They think that suddenly these computers have a monetary value that will increase with age. I don't know if they're right or wrong but I know that I want various computers because I worked with them or 'lusted' after them as grew up with computers. My view of my collection is that I can still use them and appreciate them. I still haven't figured out why I will tolerate an XT running DOS loading Word Perfect yet I get ticked off waiting for my laptop to load a doc with Microsoft Word (OK so the XT is faster :-). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Tue Dec 19 14:46:03 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Dec 19, 2000 06:59:51 pm" Message-ID: <200012192046.eBJKk4127575@bg-tc-ppp595.monmouth.com> > > The video phone in "Buckaroo Bonzai" is a DEC machine; the > > logo is covered up, but it's too small to be a Pro, so it's > > either a Rainbow or a DECmate II. > > Nitpick? Wasn't the Pro325 (floppy only model) built in the smaller case? > > -tony > > Yup... but there weren't too many 325's sold. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 19 14:45:35 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies Message-ID: Nope, I have a Pro 325 in my garage, and it's the same size case as a Rainbow or Pro 350/380... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jtinker at coin.org Tue Dec 19 14:51:08 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Hard disk Woes References: <000501c0674b$d80fdbe0$0101010a@pentium2> <002701c06773$69b76320$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <000401c06788$a53808e0$0101010a@pentium2> <001b01c0678b$25101560$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <000001c069ea$8beb6ee0$0101010a@pentium2> <001901c069f4$630ff220$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3A3FCA3B.7A9E140F@coin.org> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > That's why there are backups, doncha know! If you don't do regular backups, > it's because you don't care whether you lose your data. My maxim is that my real system is the part that's backed up. -- John Tinker From jrasite at eoni.com Tue Dec 19 15:02:27 2000 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: <200012191840.MAA22337@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <3A3FB08B.5E76E2AB@home.net> Message-ID: <3A3FCCDE.4D4D50C0@eoni.com> Snipe software??? Available for a Mac? If so, where? TIA Jim From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 19 15:04:23 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: from "Will Jennings" at Dec 19, 0 01:45:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 367 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001219/18835ea8/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 19 15:21:30 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4672.208.227.9.12.977260890.squirrel@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Will Jennings wrote: > Nope, I have a Pro 325 in my garage, and it's the same size case as a > Rainbow or Pro 350/380... Tony wrote: > Since the Rainbow and the Pro350 are certainly different size cases (I > have both), I am having great difficulty figuring out what you mean > here... > > (Incidentally, the Pro350 and Pro380 cases are the same size, as are > the Rainbow and DECmate II cases). Originally the Rainbow, DECmate II, and Pro 325/350 all came in the same size cases. When they added a hard drive to the Pro 350, they put it in a larger case to make room for a beefier power supply. The Pro 380 is always in the larger case. From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 19 15:24:38 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: Re: Snipe S/W? (Jim Arnott) References: <200012191840.MAA22337@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <3A3FB08B.5E76E2AB@home.net> <3A3FCCDE.4D4D50C0@eoni.com> Message-ID: <14911.53782.648747.561758@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 19, Jim Arnott wrote: > Snipe software??? Available for a Mac? If so, where? Uhh, ftp.netscape.com? The only thing one needs for effective sniping is a web browser, good connectivity, and perhaps an alarm clock. Some tips, from one of the most effective snipers I know (ME!): - Use the "sign in" feature...saves keystrokes when bidding. - Use two windows side-by-side: one on the main auction page, keep hitting "reload" to watch the countdown; one with a pre-prepared bid ready to hit "place bid". Scroll this one up a lot to minimize mouse movement distance to hit the button. - If you think another sniper is watching, it doesn't hurt to have another pre-prepared bid window ready to hit "place bid" but with a higher amount. Keep it iconified and out of the way, but keep it accessible. - Bid odd amounts...not $150.00, but $156.56. Shift to the high side of ones or cents. Often people will bid even amounts like $150.00 or slightly higher like $150.01. - Keep a running idea of network lag between you & eBay as you hit "reload" on your main auction page watching the countdown. Use this information when placing your bid. - The faster your connectivity (actually its more the latency that counts, but faster connectivity usually means lower-latency connectivity) the better off you are. I usually shoot for the last 3-4 seconds of the auction. - Know the "deep pockets" bidders. People like "at90210", "dimethyl", and "shirotori"...these folks have more money than all of us put together, and have no qualms with spending it to keep you from getting what you want if you piss them off. Don't snipe the big spenders, or you'll never win an auction again. It's as simple as that. - Know who your friends are. If you find yourself constantly coming up against the same person on stuff, send him or her some email. Get to know the other person. Try to form some sort of working relationship that facilitates communication on a per-auction basis. Decide amongst yourselves who wants or needs the item more. Concede once in a while. It's better to have friends than enemies...and sometimes those friends spot things that you may have missed. Is sniping morally wrong? I dunno, ask a priest. Is it rude? Definitely. But there are SO many people who do it, screw it. If you snipe someone and can't live with yourself afterwards, then don't snipe anymore. But if you're sick of BEING sniped, or of simply not winning the auctions that you want to win, then go for it. It's a cold, cruel world out there. -Dave McGuire From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 19 15:30:10 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? References: <3A3FA45C.36A88F94@rain.org> <01ef01c069ee$d1859760$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> <3A3FC5C3.380BFE65@home.net> Message-ID: <015f01c06a07$28d27390$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Cherry" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 3:32 PM Subject: Re: $3551 Sol??? > Michael Nadeau wrote: > > > The question for our hobby is whether the high eBay prices are a fad or a > > long-term trend. I'm not sure what the answer is. > I still haven't figured out why I will tolerate an XT running DOS loading > Word Perfect yet I get ticked off waiting for my laptop to load a doc > with Microsoft Word (OK so the XT is faster :-). The price difference may have something to do with it, My 'new' XT cost me .56 cdn the laptop much much much more and it doesn't deliver a proportionate increase in features or performance. From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 19 16:10:32 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? In-Reply-To: Re: $3551 Sol??? (Michael Nadeau) References: <3A3FA45C.36A88F94@rain.org> <01ef01c069ee$d1859760$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> Message-ID: <14911.56536.432145.252357@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 19, Michael Nadeau wrote: > The second-highest bidder has also placed large bids on other items, > including the Apple I ($18,475), 20th anniversary Mac ($1,925), and a MIB FYI, that 20th anniversary mac price isn't too far out of line. Most of them go for $1500-1800. Most of them sold on eBay come with G3 upgrade boards and large drives preinstalled, and so-equipped they make perhaps the best kitchen table web browsing machine I've ever used. -Dave McGuire From foxvideo at wincom.net Tue Dec 19 14:18:33 2000 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <001e01c069e7$85ac5740$0200a8c0@marvin> References: Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001219151558.009f8540@mail.wincom.net> At 11:14 AM 12/19/2000 -0700, you wrote: >The discussion of classic computers in the movies has prompted some >commercial thoughts. Is there any money to be made in renting classic >computers to movie makers? People in SoCal, New York, and up here in >"Hollywood North" might be able to fund their hobby that way. Anyone have >any experience with this? Is damage to the rented items a big risk? Did you >have to provide a catalog of your systems to the Prop people? Could you add >value by providing "historically accurate" setups for different eras (e.g. >an Apple II with period peripherals for an early 80s film) I'd be >interested in any feedback from people with experience in this area. > >Mark When did Hollywood start worrying about "Historical Accuracy"? > Charlie Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor ON N8Y 3J8 foxvideo@wincom.net Check out: The Old Walkerville Virtual Museum at http://skyboom.com/foxvideo and Camcorder Kindergarten at http://chasfoxvideo.com From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 19 15:26:36 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <14911.53782.648747.561758@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Dave McGuire wrote: > - Bid odd amounts...not $150.00, but $156.56. Shift to the high side > of ones or cents. Often people will bid even amounts like > $150.00 or slightly higher like $150.01. Just bid $1 million. You'll be guaranteed to get it everytime. > - Know the "deep pockets" bidders. People like "at90210", > "dimethyl", and "shirotori"...these folks have more money than > all of us put together, and have no qualms with spending it > to keep you from getting what you want if you piss them off. > Don't snipe the big spenders, or you'll never win an auction > again. It's as simple as that. Wow, eBay mafioso. > - Know who your friends are. If you find yourself constantly > coming up against the same person on stuff, send him or her > some email. Get to know the other person. Try to form some > sort of working relationship that facilitates communication > on a per-auction basis. Decide amongst yourselves who wants > or needs the item more. Concede once in a while. It's better > to have friends than enemies...and sometimes those friends > spot things that you may have missed. Not that I plan to turn you in (as long as you send me $100 within the next 2 weeks, e-mail me for my address :) but this practice is actually illegal. > Is sniping morally wrong? I dunno, ask a priest. Is it rude? > Definitely. But there are SO many people who do it, screw it. If you > snipe someone and can't live with yourself afterwards, then don't > snipe anymore. But if you're sick of BEING sniped, or of simply not > winning the auctions that you want to win, then go for it. It's a > cold, cruel world out there. Unfortunately, eBay's retarded auction mechanism promotes the use of sniping. As I've argued before, it encourages over-bidding. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 19 16:44:39 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? References: <3A3FA45C.36A88F94@rain.org> <01ef01c069ee$d1859760$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> <3A3FC5C3.380BFE65@home.net> <015f01c06a07$28d27390$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <001501c06a0d$459cd8c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> see below, plz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Kenzie" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 2:30 PM Subject: Re: $3551 Sol??? > The price difference may have something to do with it, My > 'new' XT cost me .56 cdn the laptop much much much more and > it doesn't deliver a proportionate increase in features or > performance. > I doubt the accuracy of that statement. How fast does the XT run with no connection to the power company and how much does it do when confined to the tray-table on the back of the seat in front of you on an airliner? Dick From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 19 16:50:04 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:46 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: <200012191840.MAA22337@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <3A3FB08B.5E76E2AB@home.net> <3A3FCCDE.4D4D50C0@eoni.com> <14911.53782.648747.561758@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3A3FE61C.E6B865EC@rain.org> Dave McGuire wrote: > > Is sniping morally wrong? I dunno, ask a priest. Is it rude? > Definitely. But there are SO many people who do it, screw it. If you IMNSHO, there is nothing wrong at all wrong with sniping. OTOH not sniping is, for the most part, just the sign of an inexperienced bidder. Why snipe? The main reason is there is always someone out there willing to push a bit just to see if they can get the bid. That is really hard to do when you don't place your bid until the last moment :)! Personally, I think it *really stupid* of Ebay and other sites not to allow a sealed proxy bid so the only thing showing is that a bid has been made. From the sellers perspective, it would probably result in higher prices. A lot of people, myself included, will put something out with "no idea" of what it might be worth and start the bid low. Let those that know set the price .. or get a bargain as the case might be :)!!! From optimus at canit.se Tue Dec 19 13:28:14 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person In-Reply-To: <000101c069ea$90700ca0$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <1091.388T700T12284097optimus@canit.se> Gareth Knight skrev: >Lawrence Walker wrote: >> Whoa, what magazines pray tell. I thought all of the ST zines had >> folded their cards or were unfulfilled launches. >I meant PC magazines. I saw Calamus 9x on the cover of Computer Music. As Computer Music? Why Calamus? >Iggy wrote in a previous mail, the only remaining ST mag is a German >subscription-only. The Mix has stopped their ST coverage (AFAIK) and >Computer Shopper replaced their ST section with a section on Palm OS'. >On a related note, Slashdot mentions that an Atari 800XL is being used by a >Czech hospital for heart diagnostics (and the occasional game of The Lone >Raider :). While we're on the topic of eight-bit Ataris, I believe that there is such a mag in Germany, too. I suppose it's rather at the fanzine level, but print is always more fun than HTML. =) -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. We have support for the PMAGC-B's on pmax right? That is a PixelVision based card right? I see Bt 463, that chip looks bigger than the 21164! Just looking at it makes me want to write an Xserver! Chris Tribo, NetBSD/pmax From optimus at canit.se Tue Dec 19 16:04:02 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: VT180/Robin system help needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <386.388T100T13843749optimus@canit.se> XenoSoft skrev: >It used to be quite common for diskettes to be labelled with "unformatted >capacity". And it's the only correct way to do it. I would feel cheated if I bought HD diskettes which could only be formatted to 1,44 MB. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Alle meine Noten bringen mich nicht aus den N?ten, und ich schreibe noten ?berhaupt nur aus N?ten. --- Ludwig van Beethoven From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 19 16:48:42 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 19, 2000 01:26:36 PM Message-ID: <200012192248.OAA06047@shell1.aracnet.com> > > - Know who your friends are. If you find yourself constantly > > coming up against the same person on stuff, send him or her > > some email. Get to know the other person. Try to form some > > sort of working relationship that facilitates communication > > on a per-auction basis. Decide amongst yourselves who wants > > or needs the item more. Concede once in a while. It's better > > to have friends than enemies...and sometimes those friends > > spot things that you may have missed. > > Not that I plan to turn you in (as long as you send me $100 within the > next 2 weeks, e-mail me for my address :) but this practice is actually > illegal. Why on earth would this be illegal? This happens at real auctions, and I'm sure it happens on eBay as well. Zane From gregorym at cadvision.com Tue Dec 19 16:23:56 2000 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: Message-ID: <014a01c06a0a$60a64320$0200a8c0@marvin> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 2:26 PM Subject: Re: Snipe S/W? > > Is sniping morally wrong? I dunno, ask a priest. Is it rude? > > Definitely. But there are SO many people who do it, screw it. If you > > snipe someone and can't live with yourself afterwards, then don't > > snipe anymore. But if you're sick of BEING sniped, or of simply not > > winning the auctions that you want to win, then go for it. It's a > > cold, cruel world out there. > > Unfortunately, eBay's retarded auction mechanism promotes the use of > sniping. As I've argued before, it encourages over-bidding. > It's also very unlike a live auction. Most auctioneers hate people who snipe, because a sniper doesn't take place in the bidding war that leads to higher prices. At most auctions, you'll find that the auctioneer and his/her staff will "fail to notice" bids from persistent snipers unless they have participated in the earlier bidding. eBay could create an analogue of this by limiting bidding in the last 30 minutes of an auction to people who bid before the 30 minute mark. At least then the bidders could "size up" their competition and bid accordingly, as you would at a live auction. Cheers, Mark Gregory From bills at adrenaline.com Tue Dec 19 16:59:24 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > - Know who your friends are. If you find yourself constantly > > coming up against the same person on stuff, send him or her > > some email. Get to know the other person. Try to form some > > sort of working relationship that facilitates communication > > on a per-auction basis. Decide amongst yourselves who wants > > or needs the item more. Concede once in a while. It's better > > to have friends than enemies...and sometimes those friends > > spot things that you may have missed. > > Not that I plan to turn you in (as long as you send me $100 within the > next 2 weeks, e-mail me for my address :) but this practice is actually > illegal. I've heard this implied before. No offence, no flame, but exactly how and why is it illegal. If I was standing in a live auction and realized that I was bidding against you or some other friend, I would definitly weigh our friendship against how badly I wanted the item. Also, I once suggested to a list member that we combine our bids and split a lot, was told that this also is illegal. From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 19 17:03:52 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: <200012192248.OAA06047@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3A3FE958.31F44C95@rain.org> healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > > > - Know who your friends are. If you find yourself constantly > > > coming up against the same person on stuff, send him or her > > > some email. Get to know the other person. Try to form some > > > > Not that I plan to turn you in (as long as you send me $100 within the > > next 2 weeks, e-mail me for my address :) but this practice is actually > > illegal. > > Why on earth would this be illegal? This happens at real auctions, and I'm > sure it happens on eBay as well. It probably does happen on Ebay but it falls in the classification of collusion, and that is not permitted by Ebay rules. From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Dec 19 17:12:01 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: Re: Snipe S/W? (Sellam Ismail) References: <14911.53782.648747.561758@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <14911.60225.46999.351225@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 19, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > - Know who your friends are. If you find yourself constantly > > coming up against the same person on stuff, send him or her > > some email. Get to know the other person. Try to form some > > sort of working relationship that facilitates communication > > on a per-auction basis. Decide amongst yourselves who wants > > or needs the item more. Concede once in a while. It's better > > to have friends than enemies...and sometimes those friends > > spot things that you may have missed. > > Not that I plan to turn you in (as long as you send me $100 within the > next 2 weeks, e-mail me for my address :) but this practice is actually > illegal. It's illegal to (for example) send my friend "sartoris1" email saying "hey Doug I see you're bidding on that lot of DEC processor handbooks...I really want 'em and was gonna bid, but if you really want 'em I'll back off.."?? Does that really constitute collusion? If so, then I believe this is one instance in which the letter of the law doesn't faithfully represent the spirit of the law. -Dave McGuire From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 19 17:07:30 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <200012192248.OAA06047@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > > - Know who your friends are. If you find yourself constantly > > > coming up against the same person on stuff, send him or her > > > some email. Get to know the other person. Try to form some > > > sort of working relationship that facilitates communication > > > on a per-auction basis. Decide amongst yourselves who wants > > > or needs the item more. Concede once in a while. It's better > > > to have friends than enemies...and sometimes those friends > > > spot things that you may have missed. > > > > Not that I plan to turn you in (as long as you send me $100 within the > > next 2 weeks, e-mail me for my address :) but this practice is actually > > illegal. > > Why on earth would this be illegal? This happens at real auctions, and I'm > sure it happens on eBay as well. I don't make the laws, I just inflame readers on mailing lists by posting them. It has to do with collusion and price-fixing. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 19 17:10:02 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <014a01c06a0a$60a64320$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Mark Gregory wrote: > It's also very unlike a live auction. Most auctioneers hate people who > snipe, because a sniper doesn't take place in the bidding war that leads to > higher prices. At most auctions, you'll find that the auctioneer and > his/her staff will "fail to notice" bids from persistent snipers unless > they have participated in the earlier bidding. eBay could create an > analogue of this by limiting bidding in the last 30 minutes of an auction > to people who bid before the 30 minute mark. At least then the bidders > could "size up" their competition and bid accordingly, as you would at a > live auction. Or do like I did for the Apple-1 auction at VCF 4.0: keep extending the auction for fifteen more minutes after each new bid came in within 15 minutes of the planned closing time. The bidding actually went on another 50 minutes or so before no more bids came in. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 19 17:10:44 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A3FE958.31F44C95@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Marvin wrote: > It probably does happen on Ebay but it falls in the classification of > collusion, and that is not permitted by Ebay rules. I'm lead to believe there are also actually laws forbidding this practice. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From optimus at canit.se Tue Dec 19 17:33:19 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? In-Reply-To: <3A3FB08B.5E76E2AB@home.net> Message-ID: <569.389T950T334307optimus@canit.se> Neil Cherry skrev: >I amy have bid too much for my ATR800 (~$350) but that's because of >sedimental reasons. I also haven't seen too many ATR8000's for sale >or bid so I may not have doen too badly (it was a complete system >with software, drives and Atari 800). ATR800? Is that the transputer workstation? -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. About 15 years ago(in 1984), I played many time HYDLIDE like monkey's self- acting! HaHaHa!! Here in Nippon(Japan), many many MSX Freak played HYDLIDE 1/2/3 on MSX1/2. Perhaps, also you like HYDLIDE series!!! K. Ikeda, MSX-Print From ncherry at home.net Tue Dec 19 19:29:03 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? References: <3A3FA45C.36A88F94@rain.org> <01ef01c069ee$d1859760$0c01a8c0@michaelnadeau> <3A3FC5C3.380BFE65@home.net> <015f01c06a07$28d27390$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3A400B5F.26964A38@home.net> Mike Kenzie wrote: > > I still haven't figured out why I will tolerate an XT > > running DOS loading > > Word Perfect yet I get ticked off waiting for my laptop to > > load a doc > > with Microsoft Word (OK so the XT is faster :-). > > The price difference may have something to do with it, My > 'new' XT cost me .56 cdn the laptop much much much more and > it doesn't deliver a proportionate increase in features or > performance. I bought neither, the XT was a trash find, the laptop one of my tools for work. But the point is well taken and one I had not considered. One thing that I have noticed is that I tend to be more tolerant of the speed problem. Most times it is a problem with resources, in this case the laptop doesn't have enough RAM. I am trying to fix that but I'm finding that the bureaucracy within my employer to be more frustrating than the problem. It's also made me a good lab pack rat :-). I roam the halls and find machines that are being tossed out (within the company). I pick them up part them out and salvage what I can. I then toss the shell and let accounting do it's thing. They get the write off, we get parts for doing our work (it just makes it easier). Of course it's getting tougher to make repairs on the newer equipment. So as it ages I do what I can. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ncherry at home.net Tue Dec 19 19:35:57 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? References: <569.389T950T334307optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3A400CFD.CC0F71C6@home.net> Iggy Drougge wrote: > > Neil Cherry skrev: > > >I amy have bid too much for my ATR800 (~$350) but that's because of > >sedimental reasons. I also haven't seen too many ATR8000's for sale > >or bid so I may not have doen too badly (it was a complete system > >with software, drives and Atari 800). > > ATR800? Is that the transputer workstation? Argh! That's an ATR8000, it's a CPM machine that used the Atari 800 as a terminal. The Atari could also access the drives connected to the Z80. The Atari normally uses a serially attached drive while the ATR used a normal (?? :-) floppy interface. Sorry for the confusion, my typing has been getting worse (note the "amy" in the first line of my previous message). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ncherry at home.net Tue Dec 19 19:40:58 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: Message-ID: <3A400E2A.D19F2B26@home.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > - Bid odd amounts...not $150.00, but $156.56. Shift to the high side > > of ones or cents. Often people will bid even amounts like > > $150.00 or slightly higher like $150.01. > > Just bid $1 million. You'll be guaranteed to get it everytime. I'm not so sure about that, I've seen way too many that just keep bidding. > > Is sniping morally wrong? I dunno, ask a priest. Is it rude? > > Definitely. But there are SO many people who do it, screw it. If you > > snipe someone and can't live with yourself afterwards, then don't > > snipe anymore. But if you're sick of BEING sniped, or of simply not > > winning the auctions that you want to win, then go for it. It's a > > cold, cruel world out there. > > Unfortunately, eBay's retarded auction mechanism promotes the use of > sniping. As I've argued before, it encourages over-bidding. Hmmm, I'm not sure it does (in my case only). I setup a snipe for the max amount I want and not anymore. I've always assumed (yea, I know) that others sniped also. I usually bid on some pretty weird stuff. Not many people will bid a Cisco ASM (a 64 port terminal server (64(base 10) = o100(base 8) :-). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From jtinker at coin.org Tue Dec 19 19:48:39 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: Message-ID: <3A400FF6.67F9FA67@coin.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > Or do like I did for the Apple-1 auction at VCF 4.0: keep extending the > auction for fifteen more minutes after each new bid came in within 15 > minutes of the planned closing time. The bidding actually went on another > 50 minutes or so before no more bids came in. Excellent idea. On-line it could be a shorter period, like 5 minutes, but it would let the price develop to its full potential. From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 19 19:55:53 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? In-Reply-To: <001f01c069f6$2607f1a0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: <200012191840.MAA22337@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001219195023.026b82d0@pc> At 12:59 PM 12/19/00 -0700, Richard Erlacher wrote: >Dont forget that there are lots of people to whom amounts >> $100K are >NOTHING. >BTW, a working computer from the "ALTAIR" era was a rare thing, since these >items seldom worked as shippped. Define "working". :-) How heavily was this unit tested? Who knows. Just like anything else, people will pay a premium for a well-documented, clean, complete set of anything. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 19 20:11:39 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20001219151558.009f8540@mail.wincom.net> References: <001e01c069e7$85ac5740$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001219195719.0267eeb0@pc> At 03:18 PM 12/19/00 -0500, Charles E. Fox wrote: Could you add >>value by providing "historically accurate" setups for different eras (e.g. >>an Apple II with period peripherals for an early 80s film) >When did Hollywood start worrying about "Historical Accuracy"? Probably right after they stop adding gratuitous sounds and inaccurate functions to computers: dot-matrix printer sounds, beeps and boops that would drive you nuts if the damn machine actually made that sound all the time, slow-motion text display, fonts larger than your mouse, etc. I seem to remember a Roger Ebert column on the topic. In short, he dreamed of the day when movie-makers realized that most people have seen a real computer and know how they operate, and they'd be portrayed as such on the screen. Why all the goofy fakery? * Just this morning on Sesame Street, Alan (who took over Mr. Hooper's store a few years back, in case you haven't been watching) was helping Baby Bear send a message to his poetry friends on a web site - and the skit confused the notion of an e-mail address and a web site address. My kid was wandering around adding "dot com" to things when he was two, and I hadn't even let him play at the computer for any appreciable amount of time. Now at 5, he sees something new and wants to know if it has a web site. - John * I'll tell you why they look fake... it's easier to fake something completely unrealistic than it is to make something look "right". Godzilla vs. Jurassic Park, for example. Although I think a lot of movies could handle their PC screen scenes with a little Visual Basic and a macro recorder, so much of what you see (in terms of GUI screen shots) is completely recreated on some other computer or OS, ready for replay, replay, replay at a moment's notice if a human needs to interact with it. From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 19 20:19:04 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: References: <200012192248.OAA06047@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001219201320.02748910@pc> At 03:07 PM 12/19/00 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >I don't make the laws, I just inflame readers on mailing lists by posting >them. >It has to do with collusion and price-fixing. I'm sad they took away the ability to see past bidder's e-mails. It was a great way to pump up interest in a sale. It's another example of something eBay could turn to their advantage. I don't want a stupid search agent to look for "Yogi doll" for me every three days. Give me the option to hand out my e-mail address (or better yet, an eBay private box address that's auto-forwarded to my non-public e-mail address) to anyone selling something I might want, and give me a way to file a different kind of feedback to help police people who might be inclined to spam via this mechanism. - John From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 19 19:19:35 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A400FF6.67F9FA67@coin.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, John Tinker wrote: > > Or do like I did for the Apple-1 auction at VCF 4.0: keep extending the > > auction for fifteen more minutes after each new bid came in within 15 > > minutes of the planned closing time. The bidding actually went on another > > 50 minutes or so before no more bids came in. > > Excellent idea. On-line it could be a shorter period, like 5 minutes, > but it would let the price develop to its full potential. Well, it actually was an online auction. All the bids were taken over the net using the website auction mechanism I set up. Nnobody called in a bid. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 19 20:09:09 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001219195719.0267eeb0@pc> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: > Probably right after they stop adding gratuitous sounds and > inaccurate functions to computers: dot-matrix printer sounds, > beeps and boops that would drive you nuts if the damn machine > actually made that sound all the time, slow-motion text display, > fonts larger than your mouse, etc. I especially like how a lot of computers in movies sound like the terrible Atari 2600 version of PacMan. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jtinker at coin.org Tue Dec 19 21:19:29 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: <200012192248.OAA06047@shell1.aracnet.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20001219201320.02748910@pc> Message-ID: <3A402540.C2E94D6E@coin.org> John Foust wrote: > I'm sad they took away the ability to see past bidder's e-mails. > It was a great way to pump up interest in a sale. It's another > example of something eBay could turn to their advantage. On the bid history screen, if I follow the bidder's screen name, I am allowed to see the email address associated with the screen name, but I have to sign-in myself during the process. I've been researching buyers and sending out email notices to people who have bid before on similar items. From responses I have gotten, they seem to appreciate it, and it definitely increases page views. -- John Tinker From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 19 19:27:12 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: Message-ID: <000001c06a35$37813740$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Let's not forget that eBay provides a service. Maybe not to those who don't buy or sell there, but ... the have mechanisms in place that drive prices up, true, but they don't force anybody to bid more than they're willing. The fact that the prices are driven up is a SERVICE to their customers, since their customers are the ones who ultimately get the benefit of the higher prices. The benefit to the ultimate buyer is that he GETS what he wants, while the others, the LOSERS, since this is a competitive market, don't. The losers, those who didn't want to pay what was necessary, lost because they didn't have what it took to get the goods. eBay will continue to exist long after AMAZON and Yahoo are long forgotten simply because they provide a legitimate service to their customers, the sellers. Like a real-estate broker, they, eBay, get a cut. It's not 7% like the real-estate broker gets, but it's enough that they're profitable, and from what I've read, they have been almost since day 1, which is almost unheard of in the internet biz. One thing is lacking, however, and that's the guy who finds you and breaks your legs when you bid and then don't buy. There's something in the works, however, so they may finally plug that hole. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 2:26 PM Subject: Re: Snipe S/W? > On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Dave McGuire wrote: > > > - Bid odd amounts...not $150.00, but $156.56. Shift to the high side > > of ones or cents. Often people will bid even amounts like > > $150.00 or slightly higher like $150.01. > > Just bid $1 million. You'll be guaranteed to get it everytime. > > > - Know the "deep pockets" bidders. People like "at90210", > > "dimethyl", and "shirotori"...these folks have more money than > > all of us put together, and have no qualms with spending it > > to keep you from getting what you want if you piss them off. > > Don't snipe the big spenders, or you'll never win an auction > > again. It's as simple as that. > > Wow, eBay mafioso. > > > - Know who your friends are. If you find yourself constantly > > coming up against the same person on stuff, send him or her > > some email. Get to know the other person. Try to form some > > sort of working relationship that facilitates communication > > on a per-auction basis. Decide amongst yourselves who wants > > or needs the item more. Concede once in a while. It's better > > to have friends than enemies...and sometimes those friends > > spot things that you may have missed. > > Not that I plan to turn you in (as long as you send me $100 within the > next 2 weeks, e-mail me for my address :) but this practice is actually > illegal. > > > Is sniping morally wrong? I dunno, ask a priest. Is it rude? > > Definitely. But there are SO many people who do it, screw it. If you > > snipe someone and can't live with yourself afterwards, then don't > > snipe anymore. But if you're sick of BEING sniped, or of simply not > > winning the auctions that you want to win, then go for it. It's a > > cold, cruel world out there. > > Unfortunately, eBay's retarded auction mechanism promotes the use of > sniping. As I've argued before, it encourages over-bidding. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 19 21:35:55 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? References: <569.389T950T334307optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <001301c06a35$f6129dc0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Iggy Drougge" To: "Neil Cherry" Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 4:33 PM Subject: Re: $3551 Sol??? > Neil Cherry skrev: > > >I amy have bid too much for my ATR800 (~$350) but that's because of > >sedimental reasons. I also haven't seen too many ATR8000's for sale > >or bid so I may not have doen too badly (it was a complete system > >with software, drives and Atari 800). > > ATR800? Is that the transputer workstation? > > -- > En ligne avec Thor 2.6. > > About 15 years ago(in 1984), I played many time HYDLIDE like monkey's self- > acting! HaHaHa!! Here in Nippon(Japan), many many MSX Freak played HYDLIDE > 1/2/3 on MSX1/2. Perhaps, also you like HYDLIDE series!!! > K. Ikeda, MSX-Print > > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 19 21:47:12 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: <200012192248.OAA06047@shell1.aracnet.com> <4.3.2.7.0.20001219201320.02748910@pc> <3A402540.C2E94D6E@coin.org> Message-ID: <003101c06a37$89570160$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Sometimes, when I've got an item that someone else is selling on the eBay, and the ending price is high enough to suit me, I've contacted the bidders who didn't win out and offered to sell to them at their bid price. It's worked out for me so far. One of these days, I'm going to have to get a digital camera so I can put up pictures of my own stuff. Generally my stuff is more complete than what's offered, though that's not universally the case. The results I've had suggest to me that the folks are bidding to get the item on auction, and not just to beat the other guy. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Tinker" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 8:19 PM Subject: Re: Snipe S/W? > > > John Foust wrote: > > > I'm sad they took away the ability to see past bidder's e-mails. > > It was a great way to pump up interest in a sale. It's another > > example of something eBay could turn to their advantage. > > On the bid history screen, if I follow the bidder's screen name, I am allowed > to see the email address associated with the screen name, but I have to > sign-in myself during the process. I've been researching buyers and sending > out email notices to people who have bid before on similar items. From > responses I have gotten, they seem to appreciate it, and it definitely > increases page views. > > -- John Tinker > > From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 19 21:47:55 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <000001c06a35$37813740$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: Sellam wrote: > Just bid $1 million. You'll be guaranteed to get it everytime. $1,000,002.02 To keep Sellam from getting it with his $1 million bid that he does every time. He knows what stuff is worth to him, and treated me fairly on the stuff that he bought from me. Four mo' boxes. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dpeschel at eskimo.com Tue Dec 19 21:48:09 2000 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Nova manual free to good home Message-ID: <200012200348.TAA17848@eskimo.com> I got it for someone but he already has a copy. It's "How to Use the Nova Compueters". It covers the Nova, Nova 800, Nova 1200, and Supernova. It explains the insruction set, I/O in general, details of specific I/O devices, interfacing and timing (with some schematics), and installation. It's 8 1/2" by 11", softbound, rather worn (pen marks inside, tape on binding, coffee-cup ring on cover), but the paper and printing are in good shape. Trades in kind (documentation, source code, book, magazine, etc.) or of 8-bit micro software happily accepted. I'm going on vacation at the end of the week so if you don't reply soon, expect a delay. -- Derek From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 19 22:00:01 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: <3A400FF6.67F9FA67@coin.org> Message-ID: <3A402EC1.F8E40E2A@rain.org> John Tinker wrote: > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > Or do like I did for the Apple-1 auction at VCF 4.0: keep extending the > > auction for fifteen more minutes after each new bid came in within 15 > > minutes of the planned closing time. The bidding actually went on another > > 50 minutes or so before no more bids came in. > > Excellent idea. On-line it could be a shorter period, like 5 minutes, but it would > let the price develop to its full potential. Not an excellent idea as it caters to those people that can be online when the auction closes and discriminates against those that can't. From chris at mainecoon.com Tue Dec 19 22:12:19 2000 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Nova manual free to good home References: <200012200348.TAA17848@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <3A4031A3.C8984FB5@mainecoon.com> Hi, Derek Peschel wrote: > I got it for someone but he already has a copy. [snip] If it's not already gone I'd be delighted to have it. > Trades in kind (documentation, source code, book, magazine, etc.) or of > 8-bit micro software happily accepted. I've got a bunch of DEC docs if you're interested in any of them... > I'm going on vacation at the end of the week so if you don't reply soon, > expect a delay. Ditto. Cheers, Chris. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From chris at mainecoon.com Tue Dec 19 22:13:28 2000 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Nova manual free to good home, redux References: <200012200348.TAA17848@eskimo.com> Message-ID: <3A4031E8.E9DC022F@mainecoon.com> Damn, I didn't intend to send that to the list. Sorry about that. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 19 21:10:39 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A402540.C2E94D6E@coin.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, John Tinker wrote: > On the bid history screen, if I follow the bidder's screen name, I am > allowed to see the email address associated with the screen name, but > I have to sign-in myself during the process. I've been researching > buyers and sending out email notices to people who have bid before on > similar items. From responses I have gotten, they seem to appreciate > it, and it definitely increases page views. Since I don't use eBay and haven't for a long time I don't get these types of e-mails. But in general I get PISSED when someone solicits me like this. Especially when it's like "Hey, I have an Altair for sale, and it's listed on eBay!!!" No, I don't care. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Tue Dec 19 21:12:26 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A402EC1.F8E40E2A@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Marvin wrote: > Not an excellent idea as it caters to those people that can be online when > the auction closes and discriminates against those that can't. Four syllables: software agents. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Dec 19 22:21:01 2000 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies Message-ID: In a message dated 12/19/00 10:23:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, foo@siconic.com writes: > On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: > > > Probably right after they stop adding gratuitous sounds and > > inaccurate functions to computers: dot-matrix printer sounds, > > beeps and boops that would drive you nuts if the damn machine > > actually made that sound all the time, slow-motion text display, > > fonts larger than your mouse, etc. > > I especially like how a lot of computers in movies sound like the terrible > Atari 2600 version of PacMan. > > Sellam Ismail what's even more pathetic is that a commercial is running here advertising best buy/compusa or something like that that shows two guys playing at a game console in a store and it's making atari2600 pacman sounds! Its always interesting that computers in movies and tv constantly make the same beep as the original IBM PC does and that these same movie computers need a lot of typing rather than just a slight movement of the wrist and a click of the mouse button. I guess using a mouse doesnt look as interactive as madly typing on a keyboard. DB Young ICQ: 29427634 hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! http://www.nothingtodo.org From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Tue Dec 19 22:22:27 2000 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A402EC1.F8E40E2A@rain.org>; from marvin@rain.org on Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 08:00:01PM -0800 References: <3A400FF6.67F9FA67@coin.org> <3A402EC1.F8E40E2A@rain.org> Message-ID: <20001219232227.A23012@alcor.concordia.ca> On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 08:00:01PM -0800, Marvin (marvin@rain.org) wrote: > John Tinker wrote: > > Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > > > Or do like I did for the Apple-1 auction at VCF 4.0: keep > > > extending the auction for fifteen more minutes after each new > > > bid came in within 15 minutes of the planned closing time. The > > > bidding actually went on another 50 minutes or so before no more > > > bids came in. > > > > Excellent idea. On-line it could be a shorter period, like 5 > > minutes, but it would let the price develop to its full potential. > > Not an excellent idea as it caters to those people that can be online when > the auction closes and discriminates against those that can't. Well, eBay caters thus now, though. It'd just be catering to *all* the people that can be online when it closes, and not the guy who gets in the last click before the buzzer. It'd work well for high-ticket items, I think, but not commodities. After all, what you said above applied to auctions based on meatware would cause much raising of eyebrows and quiet "tsk, tsk"-ing from the auctioneers. :-) -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From vcf at siconic.com Tue Dec 19 21:18:14 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: First computer singing Message-ID: In case anyone has never heard this before: http://vortex.com/rmf/daisy.ram Bell Labs IBM 7094 Sings Daisy Requires RealPlayer, which sucks horrifically. *** Does anyone know of a way to download and save streaming RM files and then convert them to another format? *** Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 19 22:36:39 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: First computer singing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > In case anyone has never heard this before: > http://vortex.com/rmf/daisy.ram > Bell Labs IBM 7094 Sings Daisy > Requires RealPlayer, which sucks horrifically. The original 7094 didn't require RealPlayer. From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 19 22:45:14 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: First computer singing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001219224143.0277eb20@pc> At 07:18 PM 12/19/00 -0800, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: >In case anyone has never heard this before: >http://vortex.com/rmf/daisy.ram >Bell Labs IBM 7094 Sings Daisy >Requires RealPlayer, which sucks horrifically. >*** >Does anyone know of a way to download and save streaming RM files and then >convert them to another format? If you look at other Real references on that server, you might be able to (in Netscape terms) right-click Save-As and save the .ram file to disk, which might contain: pnm://streams2.vortex.com/bride-v.rm which indicates he's running a real Real server. Doesn't the for-pay $30 version of RealPlayer allow you to save files? Some .ram files merely reference an .rm file via http://, such as a .ram that contains: http://streams2.vortex.com/rmf/daisy.rm which would allow you to just enter that URL directly, or save-as, and then you'd have the .rm file. - John From jtinker at coin.org Tue Dec 19 22:48:51 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: <3A400FF6.67F9FA67@coin.org> <3A402EC1.F8E40E2A@rain.org> Message-ID: <3A403A33.86A99431@coin.org> Marvin wrote: > > Excellent idea. On-line it could be a shorter period, like 5 minutes, but it would > > let the price develop to its full potential. > > Not an excellent idea as it caters to those people that can be online when > the auction closes and discriminates against those that can't. You mean discriminate against people with jobs? Or that is to say, discriminate against people who are actually doing their jobs, instead of surfing the web? Hey, you aready get paychecks and stuff like that. Seriously, though, wouldn't sniper style software take care of all of that? The end result would be that you would have to determine what your maximum bid is, one way or the other. On the other hand, I suppose putting in your maximum bid is the ultimate defense against sniping anyway, and it is aready available, even as things are now. When I've already put in my best bid, then I don't mind losing something. -- John Tinker From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 19 22:53:43 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: Message-ID: <3A403B57.309D706A@rain.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Marvin wrote: > > > Not an excellent idea as it caters to those people that can be online when > > the auction closes and discriminates against those that can't. > > Four syllables: software agents. Beat you by one: Sealed bid :). From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 19 23:02:02 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: <3A400FF6.67F9FA67@coin.org> <3A402EC1.F8E40E2A@rain.org> <3A403A33.86A99431@coin.org> Message-ID: <3A403D4A.5BC20891@rain.org> John Tinker wrote: > > On the other hand, I suppose putting in your maximum bid is the > ultimate defense against sniping anyway, and it is aready available, > even as things are now. When I've already put in my best bid, then I > don't mind losing something. I sure agree with bidding your maximum, and then who cares if someone else wins with the caveat that your maximum bid should be made as late in the auction as possible. HOWEVER, this whole discussion seems to rest on the questionable statement that everyone bidding knows what a given item is "worth" (excluding the obvious/trite argument that something is worth what someone is willing to pay.) As a simple example, look at what the Jan/Feb 1975 issues of Popular Electronics are bringing now (about $80) as opposed to a year or so ago (about $300) when they were considered *rare*. Are the people who bought a year ago more (or less) "right" than those that bought today? From jtinker at coin.org Tue Dec 19 23:17:50 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: Message-ID: <3A4040FE.7CDF5D1D@coin.org> Sellam Ismail wrote: > Since I don't use eBay and haven't for a long time I don't get these types > of e-mails. But in general I get PISSED when someone solicits me like > this. Especially when it's like "Hey, I have an Altair for sale, and it's > listed on eBay!!!" No, I don't care. Yessir. B,b,but people who have b,been b,bidding on ebay might even pr,probably care. Um, that's what I was thinking, see. An,and see, you haven't been bidding, so you don't get the emails. So it's like perfection of design. See? So, you have enough Altairs, ok? Ok. I'm going to make a note of that. I'm writing that down right now, "No more Altairs for Sellam." But there must be *something* you want, that you wouldn't mind getting an email about, isn't there? Now be honest... From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Dec 19 23:32:20 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A403D4A.5BC20891@rain.org> References: <3A400FF6.67F9FA67@coin.org> <3A402EC1.F8E40E2A@rain.org> <3A403A33.86A99431@coin.org> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001219213147.02b53320@208.226.86.10> > >HOWEVER, this whole discussion seems to rest on the questionable statement >that everyone bidding knows what a given item is "worth" (excluding the >obvious/trite argument that something is worth what someone is willing to >pay.) As a simple example, look at what the Jan/Feb 1975 issues of Popular >Electronics are bringing now (about $80) as opposed to a year or so ago >(about $300) when they were considered *rare*. Are the people who bought a >year ago more (or less) "right" than those that bought today? > Yeah, but book sales at Libarys are waaaay up because of this. :-) From harrison at timharrison.com Tue Dec 19 23:46:48 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: <3A400FF6.67F9FA67@coin.org> <3A402EC1.F8E40E2A@rain.org> <3A403A33.86A99431@coin.org> <3A403D4A.5BC20891@rain.org> Message-ID: <3A4047C8.C2029F06@timharrison.com> Marvin wrote: > HOWEVER, this whole discussion seems to rest on the questionable statement > that everyone bidding knows what a given item is "worth" (excluding the > obvious/trite argument that something is worth what someone is willing to > pay.) The one truth I can give (from my limited experience) is that everything is worth just a few dollars more than I have/am willing to spend without making those nasty bills wait another month. -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From ncherry at home.net Tue Dec 19 23:57:08 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: Message-ID: <3A404A34.E7EA322E@home.net> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Marvin wrote: > > > Not an excellent idea as it caters to those people that can be online when > > the auction closes and discriminates against those that can't. > > Four syllables: software agents. I agree with this, but as Sellum pointed out before there is a solution and that's the time extension. Make a last millisecond bid and it gets extended x minutes. Snipe software could still be used (as a software agent) but it wouldn't allow for the last split second frantic bidding. Technically ebay does have an option to post your max bid but there are ways to abuse that (which I don't do). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ernestls at home.com Wed Dec 20 00:20:12 2000 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: WTB: Corvus HD for Apple II or B-Sider tape drive. In-Reply-To: <3A4040FE.7CDF5D1D@coin.org> Message-ID: I've actually wanted one of these drives for a while but could never really justify spending the fair price for one of these but I'm getting a nice, fat Holiday bonus at work this Friday, so I thought that I would place my request out here in case any of you have one that you might like to sell. What I'm hoping to get is one of those BIG old Corvus drives, with a controller card for an Apple IIe. I'm trying to round out my A2 collection, and I was hoping to use the Corvus to set an Apple II BBS using one of the extra analog phone lines at my office. Why a BBS now, when the internet is so much easier to use? Mostly, I'm just doing it for fun, and for the experience. I could never afford the equipment when I was younger, and doing this would allow me to do something that I wanted to do a long time ago. So if you have one of these, and you might be willing to sell it if the price is right, let me know. You may not get a million bucks for it but you might make enough to offset part of the cost of your Holiday gift purchases. Obviously, I'll offer more if you have a nice, complete set up, with manuals, software, cables, etc.. I'm also looking for a B-Sider tape drive, to use with my Sider hard drive if anyone has one of those for sale. (ya right.) Anyway, let me know if you're open to negotiations. I can send the money right away. Ernest ernest@msrcorp.com / ernestls@home.com From ernestls at home.com Wed Dec 20 01:07:55 2000 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A404A34.E7EA322E@home.net> Message-ID: After having been burned by snipers many, many times, I decided to just put my max bid in at the beginning. I may not win but my conscience is clean (where that's concerned) and it's saved me from spending more than I could or should. I spent a lot of time watching auctions, and getting caught up in the last minute bidding, only to be out bid at the last second. Sometimes, I was actually happy that the bid sniper was there because I had bid more than I could afford or feel good about -but usually, I felt like scattering their teeth like chicklets. I have a very low opinion of bid snipers. They're like the proverbial "bad apples" that spoil it for everyone. I believe that most new bidders on ebay go into it with honest intentions but they (like me) learn quickly that a last second bid sniper will likely ruin the joy for them. Bid sniping is a rotten, and self-perpetuating way of buying things on ebay. You learn the hard way that if you really want something, you snipe. Don't even bother placing a bid before the last 30 seconds of the auction because your early (honest) bid will likely be sniped, and if you can't snipe, why even bother to bid. This isn't always the case, especially on common items but it happens often enough that I consider it the norm on items that I bid on, and I think that this is really a disservice that ebay provides, and seems to encourage. Perhaps ebay should only allow item bids during the last 30 seconds of the auction. At least then everyone would have an equal chance to win the auction, and they would have to place their honest maximum bid because they would only get one shot at biding. However, I do like the "Buy it Now" option that a lot of sellers seem to be including. It has it's faults too but at least it's clear about what it's for, compared to the normal ebay auction which is designed to be abused by sniping. Another possible way to avoid sniping is to allow auctions to end at random times, once it gets to the last hour of the auction. Will it end with 45 minutes to go, or with 35 seconds? You don't know, so you place your max bid and hope for the best. Even ebay would come out ahead with this option, and nice people wouldn't get burned by the more base elements of the auction world. Ernest From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 20 01:18:22 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: RE: Snipe S/W? (Ernest) References: <3A404A34.E7EA322E@home.net> Message-ID: <14912.23870.721305.295849@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 19, Ernest wrote: > I have a very low opinion of bid snipers. They're like the proverbial "bad > apples" that spoil it for everyone. I believe that most new bidders on ebay > go into it with honest intentions but they (like me) learn quickly that a > last second bid sniper will likely ruin the joy for them. Bid sniping is a ... I think you're missing the point...the notion of "it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game" is something that parents say to their children to stop them from crying when they lose. It has nothing to do with eBay. For buyers, eBay is a venue for getting things that they want. For sellers, it's a venue for getting rid of things they don't want. It's not there for "enjoyment" or "fun" or anything of the sort. If there's something on eBay that you want, the effort (and money) that you expend to get it is determined by how badly you want the item. It's really as simple as that. Ernest, as a frequent sniper, I sincerely apologize to you on behalf of other snipers for ruining your experiences. But please try to see it from the other side...it's a means to an end, it's nothing personal. -Dave McGuire From jate at uwasa.fi Wed Dec 20 01:24:05 2000 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Hermanni Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Painting a VT-100 ? Message-ID: <20001220092405.B11959@loisto.uwasa.fi> Hello all! I'm a proud owner of two 102's and I just found a VT-100 (sans keyboard) and all of them have the same cosmetic problem ie. they're yellow. Different shades of yellow, one is mildly yellow, one is dark yellow etc. So, can anyone tell what was the original color (of the case, in case you didn't figure that out from my pretty poor English) in either approximated terms ("eye blinding white") or in something like Pantone:) I'd like to paint one of those VT's to get it as close as possible to the original color (I know you were thinking about flames and stuff when you saw the subject line. I did) I just don't know the correct shade. Re: computers and movies I think that Terminator II had a big bunch of HP 7925's blown up, they were those dishwasher sized disk drives. And WarGames had a couple of Televideo 950's (VT-100 like case but narrower). Does anyone know anything about the vector graphics used for big screens in the war room ? -- jht From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 19 13:08:22 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Roger Ivie "RE: Vintage computers in movies" (Dec 19, 10:28) References: Message-ID: <10012191908.ZM1113@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> There's a huge amount of Honeywell equipment in "Billion Dollar Brain". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 01:14:53 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > what's even more pathetic is that a commercial is running here advertising > best buy/compusa or something like that that shows two guys playing at a game > console in a store and it's making atari2600 pacman sounds! Its always Yeah, I know which one you're talking about! But I guess in some lame way it pays homage to the fact that everyone recognizes that sound, and will associate it with old computer-like stuff (well, except for the younger ones among us). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 01:18:54 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: First computer singing In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001219224143.0277eb20@pc> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: > Some .ram files merely reference an .rm file via http://, > such as a .ram that contains: > > http://streams2.vortex.com/rmf/daisy.rm > > which would allow you to just enter that URL directly, > or save-as, and then you'd have the .rm file. Sheer genius. But it didn't work :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 01:32:55 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A403D4A.5BC20891@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Marvin wrote: > HOWEVER, this whole discussion seems to rest on the questionable statement > that everyone bidding knows what a given item is "worth" (excluding the > obvious/trite argument that something is worth what someone is willing to > pay.) Trite? Hardly. It's the one true definition of fair value. How dare you :) > As a simple example, look at what the Jan/Feb 1975 issues of Popular > Electronics are bringing now (about $80) as opposed to a year or so ago > (about $300) when they were considered *rare*. Are the people who bought a > year ago more (or less) "right" than those that bought today? > There's a simple explanation for all this: people are lame. They'll pay excessive amounts of money for objects that they deem to be precious. Then those items will cease to be precious at some point, people will be willing to pay less, and we will laugh at them. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 01:40:12 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:47 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A4040FE.7CDF5D1D@coin.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, John Tinker wrote: > Yessir. B,b,but people who have b,been b,bidding on ebay might even > pr,probably care. Um, that's what I was thinking, see. An,and see, you > haven't been bidding, so you don't get the emails. So it's like > perfection of design. See? So, you have enough Altairs, ok? Ok. I'm > going to make a note of that. I'm writing that down right now, "No > more Altairs for Sellam." But there must be *something* you want, that > you wouldn't mind getting an email about, isn't there? Now be > honest... Um, sex? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 01:52:13 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Ernest wrote: > Sometimes, I was actually happy that the bid sniper was there because > I had bid more than I could afford or feel good about -but usually, I > felt like scattering their Thank you. Exactly--EXACTLY--my point about how eBay's auction format encourages over-bidding. > I have a very low opinion of bid snipers. They're like the proverbial "bad > apples" that spoil it for everyone. I believe that most new bidders on ebay > go into it with honest intentions but they (like me) learn quickly that a > last second bid sniper will likely ruin the joy for them. Bid sniping is a > rotten, and self-perpetuating way of buying things on ebay. You learn the Hey, nobody is doing anything here that isn't within the rules of the system. Nobody, to my knowledge, has hacked eBay in a way that enables them to have an advantage over other bidders. Snipers are working within in the rules of the eBay auction mechanism. Don't blame the snipers. Blame the eBay auction mechanism. It's lame. > However, I do like the "Buy it Now" option that a lot of sellers seem to be > including. It has it's faults too but at least it's clear about what it's > for, compared to the normal ebay auction which is designed to be abused by > sniping. This is probably one of the best things eBay as added to their auction mechanism. A chance to just pay what the seller really wants for it and be done with it. No sniping, no worrying about being overbid. eBay alternative: http://www.vintage.org/cgi-bin/content.pl?id=001 Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 02:03:58 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <001e01c069e7$85ac5740$0200a8c0@marvin> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, Mark Gregory wrote: > The discussion of classic computers in the movies has prompted some > commercial thoughts. Is there any money to be made in renting classic > computers to movie makers? People in SoCal, New York, and up here in > "Hollywood North" might be able to fund their hobby that way. Anyone have > any experience with this? Is damage to the rented items a big risk? Did you > have to provide a catalog of your systems to the Prop people? Could you add > value by providing "historically accurate" setups for different eras (e.g. > an Apple II with period peripherals for an early 80s film) I'd be > interested in any feedback from people with experience in this area. Mark, I have done consulting a few times now for television productions. One was the Steve Wozniak biography on A&E recently where I lent my hands and some hardware for their production (my hands were the ones doing the soldering and punching buttons on an answering machine). The last consulting I did was for a production company from England doing a documentary on "hacking". They find me through my website, and I try to be as helpful as possible, either providing them with the things they want (hardware, software, etc). or pointing them towards the people who can. To answer your questions: there is no possibility of damage as long as you are present and can dictate how items are handled, but once they leave your control they are at risk, so be sure you state in writing how you are to be compensated for damaged items. I don't yet have a catalog but I do have a good memory of what I have in my collection. The problem is knowing where it is :) And it does help very much to be knowledgeable about computer history and to be able to help the producers stay true to historical fact. If you don't, hardcore geeks will know, and they will scoff at the production and indirectly at you for being lame and not ensuring historical accuracy. I keep historical accuracy in mind at every step of the consulting I am providing to my client. If I don't then I have failed them, and I am a dork. One last thing, don't think just because it is TV or the movies that you can take these guys to the cleaners. If you ask too much, they will either go off and find it somewhere else for cheaper, or they will find an alternative that costs less. Be reasonable and willing to negotiate, but don't give your stuff and knowledge away for free. I don't want anyone to cut into my business by being way cheaper than me ;) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 20 03:59:12 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: References: <3A404A34.E7EA322E@home.net> Message-ID: I think I actually have a good idea, RE sniping, allow people to submit sealed bids, ideally visible only to the seller and perhaps then only as "bids" not amounts. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 20 04:20:13 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <014a01c06a0a$60a64320$0200a8c0@marvin> References: Message-ID: >It's also very unlike a live auction. Most auctioneers hate people who >snipe, because a sniper doesn't take place in the bidding war that leads to >higher prices. At most auctions, you'll find that the auctioneer and >his/her staff will "fail to notice" bids from persistent snipers unless Live auctioneers will "fail to notice" you for a host of reasons, if they "can". Unless the auctioneer knows you AND watches you, don't make a subtle first bid. Put your paddle in the air and make some NOISE ("yes" or "here" seems to work if screamed with gusto). From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 20 05:27:35 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: WTB: Corvus HD for Apple II or B-Sider tape drive. In-Reply-To: References: <3A4040FE.7CDF5D1D@coin.org> Message-ID: >and I was hoping to use the Corvus to set an Apple II BBS using one of the >extra analog phone lines at my office. Why a BBS now, when the internet is I doubt any of the people I knew that ran a A2 BBS had anything remotely fancy, just a couple floppy drives. The corvus is an old slow network thing. OTOH I have 3 Profiles, 2 Siders, and a shelf of tape stuff, but haven't scratched at my A2 itch in some time. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 20 05:21:52 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A4047C8.C2029F06@timharrison.com> References: <3A400FF6.67F9FA67@coin.org> <3A402EC1.F8E40E2A@rain.org> <3A403A33.86A99431@coin.org> <3A403D4A.5BC20891@rain.org> Message-ID: >The one truth I can give (from my limited experience) is that everything >is worth just a few dollars more than I have/am willing to spend without >making those nasty bills wait another month. Sell a few items and use PayPal, once you have a balance just limit your purchases to whats in the Paypal account. Generally I am still my "frugal" self, but if it fits in my PayPal funds I don't often deny myself much of anything anymore. From r.stek at snet.net Wed Dec 20 05:38:39 2000 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? Message-ID: Obviously, the "true" worth of the Sol has been realized! Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Dec 20 06:05:55 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Painting a VT-100 ? In-Reply-To: <20001220092405.B11959@loisto.uwasa.fi> from Jarkko Hermanni Teppo at "Dec 20, 2000 09:24:05 am" Message-ID: <200012201205.eBKC5u434150@bg-tc-ppp595.monmouth.com> > Hello all! > > I'm a proud owner of two 102's and I just found a VT-100 (sans keyboard) and > all of them have the same cosmetic problem ie. they're yellow. Different > shades of yellow, one is mildly yellow, one is dark yellow etc. > > So, can anyone tell what was the original color (of the case, in case you > didn't figure that out from my pretty poor English) in either approximated > terms ("eye blinding white") or in something like Pantone:) > > I'd like to paint one of those VT's to get it as close as possible to the > original color (I know you were thinking about flames and stuff when you saw > the subject line. I did) I just don't know the correct shade. > > Re: computers and movies > I think that Terminator II had a big bunch of HP 7925's blown up, they > were those dishwasher sized disk drives. And WarGames had a couple > of Televideo 950's (VT-100 like case but narrower). Does anyone know > anything about the vector graphics used for big screens in the war room ? > > -- > jht > > The real color on the VT100 was pretty much the color of ceiling white house paint. However, the yellow occurred pretty quickly on them and on DECwriters. Cleaning with a paste of an mildly abrasive cleaner and water usually does it for a while. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From jate at uwasa.fi Wed Dec 20 07:54:36 2000 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Hermanni Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Painting a VT-100 ? In-Reply-To: <200012201205.eBKC5u434150@bg-tc-ppp595.monmouth.com>; from pechter@pechter.dyndns.org on Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 07:05:55AM -0500 References: <20001220092405.B11959@loisto.uwasa.fi> <200012201205.eBKC5u434150@bg-tc-ppp595.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <20001220155436.E11959@loisto.uwasa.fi> On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 07:05:55AM -0500, Bill Pechter wrote: > > The real color on the VT100 was pretty much the color of ceiling white > house paint. > > However, the yellow occurred pretty quickly on them and on DECwriters. > > Cleaning with a paste of an mildly abrasive cleaner and water usually does > it for a while. > Yep, I have a yellow DECWriter too. I've tried cleaning one of the VT's but to no avail. I found a DECdirect catalog from 1983 with color pictures so soon I'm off to the paint shop. I also found a working Osborne 1 without boot disks, so now I'm in search of those + kermit as well. One school in these areas used CP/M in education at least to 1992... Visiotek machines if I remember correctly. -- jht From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 20 08:50:44 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Dec 19, 0 11:52:13 pm" Message-ID: <200012201450.GAA11778@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > However, I do like the "Buy it Now" option that a lot of sellers seem to be > > including. It has it's faults too but at least it's clear about what it's > > for, compared to the normal ebay auction which is designed to be abused by > > sniping. > > This is probably one of the best things eBay as added to their auction > mechanism. A chance to just pay what the seller really wants for it and > be done with it. No sniping, no worrying about being overbid. Yep, me too. I just picked up a 50MHz Daystar '030 with FPU card for my IIci running NetBSD for $35 that way. Had I waited to bid it out, I would have probably paid at least $50. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The superfluous is very necessary. -- Voltaire ----------------------------- From harrison at timharrison.com Wed Dec 20 08:56:18 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: <3A400FF6.67F9FA67@coin.org> <3A402EC1.F8E40E2A@rain.org> <3A403A33.86A99431@coin.org> <3A403D4A.5BC20891@rain.org> Message-ID: <3A40C892.5A55A779@timharrison.com> Mike Ford wrote: > Sell a few items and use PayPal, once you have a balance just limit your > purchases to whats in the Paypal account. Generally I am still my "frugal" > self, but if it fits in my PayPal funds I don't often deny myself much of > anything anymore. I try to avoid PayPal. As much as I think the concept is cool, it still makes me nervous. That, and my wife is dead set against paying for things online, unless it's through the credit card, so she can dispute it, in the event of something going terribly awry. And I couldn't sell anything anyway. Too much of a packrat. Even though I don't use Windows, I have a bucket of winmodems. I'm kinda sad that way. I even have a problem throwing out dead hardware. I keep thinking to myself "you know, what if I was wrong, and this 386 motherboard isn't *really* toast... I could build..." -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 20 08:54:00 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: First computer singing In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Dec 19, 0 11:18:54 pm" Message-ID: <200012201454.GAA11306@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Some .ram files merely reference an .rm file via http://, > > such as a .ram that contains: > > > > http://streams2.vortex.com/rmf/daisy.rm > > > > which would allow you to just enter that URL directly, > > or save-as, and then you'd have the .rm file. > > Sheer genius. But it didn't work :( You lucky dog -- I happen to have recorded that very file and .mp3ed it. You can thank me later. http://stockholm.ptloma.edu/big-1961-7094.mp3 -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Got Mole problems? Call Avogadro at 6.02 x 10^23. -------------------------- From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Dec 20 09:10:01 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A40C892.5A55A779@timharrison.com> References: <3A400FF6.67F9FA67@coin.org> <3A402EC1.F8E40E2A@rain.org> <3A403A33.86A99431@coin.org> <3A403D4A.5BC20891@rain.org> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001220090756.0270edb0@pc> At 09:56 AM 12/20/00 -0500, Tim Harrison wrote: >And I couldn't sell anything anyway. Too much of a packrat. Even >though I don't use Windows, I have a bucket of winmodems. I'm kinda sad >that way. I even have a problem throwing out dead hardware. I keep >thinking to myself "you know, what if I was wrong, and this 386 >motherboard isn't *really* toast... I could build..." Sellam - enough of this VCF stuff and the hand-modeling for nerd documentaries. Start a packrat support group, and you'll be on Oprah before you know it. - John From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Dec 20 10:30:29 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Painting a VT-100 ? In-Reply-To: <20001220092405.B11959@loisto.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: > Re: computers and movies > I think that Terminator II had a big bunch of HP 7925's blown up, they > were those dishwasher sized disk drives. And WarGames had a couple > of Televideo 950's (VT-100 like case but narrower). Does anyone know > anything about the vector graphics used for big screens in the war room ? > Here's a bit of trivia you just reminded me of. The computer display in the side of the computer in WarGames (WOPR I think) a VIC-20. You can tell by the 22 column display. g. From geneb at deltasoft.com Wed Dec 20 10:34:49 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > what's even more pathetic is that a commercial is running here advertising > > best buy/compusa or something like that that shows two guys playing at a game > > console in a store and it's making atari2600 pacman sounds! Its always > > Yeah, I know which one you're talking about! But I guess in some lame way > it pays homage to the fact that everyone recognizes that sound, and will > associate it with old computer-like stuff (well, except for the younger > ones among us). I have the habit of sitting bolt upright and saying "That's from an X!" when I hear a familiar noise. The two most common sounds I hear "computers" in movies make is either a ST-225 seeking or a TRS-80 Model I floppy drive reading a disk under TRSDOS. I say TRSDOS because for whatever reason, no other DOS made the drives make that scraping noise. (at least Multidos and Newdos/Newdos-80 didn't) g. From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Wed Dec 20 09:50:01 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Some changes Message-ID: <00122009500102.00260@Billbob_Linux> Hello everyone, Please be advised that I am intending to leave my position at Viking Electronics on January 4th, 2001, and my last regular day of work will be December 22nd 2000. My current work email address of will expire sometime during that period with no further notice. Any and all future correspondence shold be directed to my home email address: "Bill Slacking Layer" I'm looking forward to an extended and long-overdue rest before I take up a new position in the coming weeks. Thanks very much, -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | .:Bill Layer:. | Viking Electronics,Inc. 1531 Industrial St | | .:Sales Technician:. | Hudson, WI 54016 USA + 715.386.8861 x210 | | b.layer@vikingelectronics.com | http://www.vikingelectronics.com | ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Telecom Solutions for the 21st Century" + Powered by Slackware Linux 7.1.0 From cube1 at home.com Wed Dec 20 10:34:00 2000 From: cube1 at home.com (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Need TU10 Vacuum Sensors Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001220101222.00bbcbc0@cirithi> I have a TU10 that has worked, generally, for the 10 years since I got it. However, earlier this year it failed, with problems during the load sequence. I have traced the problem to failed (and nearly failed) vacuum sensors. The two "fail safe" sensors at the bottom of the two columns had both failed (I suspect because during operation they were always in a low pressure state), and one of the other sensors near the bottom of one column had also failed. I suspect at least one more failure is imminent. (The test is easy: if you can suck air thru it, its bad. ;-) I suppose there is some kind of diaphragm in there which gets a hole it in when it breaks). I was able to pull some from a DG tape drive, but clearly I need either find a good supply of good ones, a supply of equivalents, or learn how to repair the buggers (seems unlikely). I have two different (presumably equivalent part numbers) for it: The original part is: Fairchild P/N PSF 100A Another (probably replacement) is: Micro Pneumatic Logic, P/N MPL 503. (These guys still exist! So I am sending them an e-mail. But new ones are bound to be pricey). Thanks in advance for any help. Jay --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection From Scott.Miller at vandenberg.af.mil Wed Dec 20 11:02:34 2000 From: Scott.Miller at vandenberg.af.mil (Miller Scott Contr 30CS/FTI) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: storage media Message-ID: Sorry, forgot to specify... it's running Digital Unix 4.0b at the moment. I might move it over to my SGI Indigo2 running IRIX. -----Original Message----- From: John Foust [mailto:jfoust@threedee.com] Sent: Friday, December 15, 2000 6:20 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: RE: storage media At 06:28 PM 12/15/00 +0000, Miller Scott Contr 30CS/FTI wrote: >Speaking of VICE, in a fit of boredom I set up an AlphaStation with VNC to >launch remote C-64 emulation sessions, sort of a C-64 ASP. You just fire up >your VNC client, point it at the server, and you get an emulated C-64 with a >bunch of old game disks. I haven't had it running since I moved over the >summer, but if anyone's interested I can fire it up and publish the address. An Alphastation running which OS? And VNC doesn't handle sound, does it? Hmm, maybe it should. And you know about the built-in VNC web server, right? You don't even need a client, just a browser. Emulation ASP not only sounds like fun, but it's probably a more meaty business model than your average dot-com. - John From mranalog at home.com Wed Dec 20 11:20:42 2000 From: mranalog at home.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? Message-ID: <3A40EA6A.EA36AC60@home.com> Bill Sudbrink wrote: > ...... Why did this one go for so much? > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1201894666&ed=977198770 Because dmerad@hotmail.com retracted his $10,000 bid! http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=1201894666&ed=977198770 Of course, he's probably kicking himself now. You might check to see if he would be interested in a Sol marked down to $5,000. --Doug ========================================= Doug Coward Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA ========================================= From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 10:32:44 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: First computer singing In-Reply-To: <200012201454.GAA11306@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > You lucky dog -- I happen to have recorded that very file and .mp3ed it. > You can thank me later. > > http://stockholm.ptloma.edu/big-1961-7094.mp3 Recorded it how? Unfortunately, a lot of background hiss was introduced :( Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 10:34:54 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001220090756.0270edb0@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: > Sellam - enough of this VCF stuff and the hand-modeling for nerd > documentaries. Start a packrat support group, and you'll be on Oprah > before you know it. I actually did address this in several interviews I did. I don't know if it made an impact on anyone else but I did manage to curb my own unbridled yearning to acquire old computer stuff to the detriment of my finances and my living space :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 10:40:05 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? In-Reply-To: <3A40EA6A.EA36AC60@home.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Doug Coward wrote: > Because dmerad@hotmail.com retracted his $10,000 bid! > > http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=1201894666&ed=977198770 > > Of course, he's probably kicking himself now. > You might check to see if he would be interested in a Sol marked down > to $5,000. Actually, someone might want to check if dmerad@hotmail.com and larrydotcalm are related in some manner (or the same person even). Can you say "fraud", boys and girls? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 20 12:08:38 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: First computer singing In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Dec 20, 0 08:32:44 am" Message-ID: <200012201808.KAA13156@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > You lucky dog -- I happen to have recorded that very file and .mp3ed it. > > You can thank me later. > > > > http://stockholm.ptloma.edu/big-1961-7094.mp3 > > Recorded it how? Unfortunately, a lot of background hiss was introduced > :( The original wasn't very good either. I just played the RealAudio on a friend's PeeCee, went into the mixer's Recording settings, turned on Wave Audio alone, and dumped it to disk as a .wav, then mp3'ed it up. No, I didn't sit in front of the computer with a microphone and a tape deck. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- His mind is like a steel trap -- full of mice. -- Foghorn Leghorn ---------- From bills at adrenaline.com Wed Dec 20 12:19:29 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: <10012191908.ZM1113@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: > There's a huge amount of Honeywell equipment in "Billion Dollar Brain". Excellent movie. Forgot that one. That also reminds me of a movie called _Hot_Millions_. Probably the first movie to portray computer crime. Can't seem to remember what computers are in it though. From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Wed Dec 20 12:20:53 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Florida Vote-O-Matic booths (OT)(Long) Message-ID: > The small town in Missouri where I live actually uses the portable punch > card system. It's basically a portable 2' plastic desk with fold up sides > that provide 3 side walls. There are 4 screw-in legs that make it into a > desk. The ballot card is inserted into a slot at the top and there is a > booklet with the candidates names on it. There are round holes in the > booklet where you punch a stylus. The stylus looks like an oversized push > pin. You can't see the "computer card/ballot" while you are voting. > There is no way to know which hole in the card matches a specific > candidate. There is also no way to know if two were punched in the same > category. There is no way to know if you actually punched through because > there is no indication or light that passes through the punched hole. > > There is a good picture of the actual Florida ballot in the article > http://giantstep.com/ballot_usability/ > > /---------| > / | > | x | > | z | > | y | > | | > | | > | | > | | > ------------ > x = vote for candidate #1 > z = vote for candidate #2 > y = vote for candidate #3 > > I think we have about 300 voters in our community. If there are more than > 4 people in line then that's a big line. We have 3 voting locations, a > school, a church, and a community club. Actually when we vote for school > board, the top three vote getters are usually elected. Some positions are > uncontested and some have no candidates. Some times there are elections > with only 1 or 2 races. > > Mike > mmcfadden@cmh.edu > From bills at adrenaline.com Wed Dec 20 12:24:59 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? In-Reply-To: <3A40EA6A.EA36AC60@home.com> Message-ID: > > ...... Why did this one go for so much? > > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1201894666& > ed=977198770 > > > Because dmerad@hotmail.com retracted his $10,000 bid! > > http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=1201894666 > &ed=977198770 > > Of course, he's probably kicking himself now. > You might check to see if he would be interested in a Sol marked down > to $5,000. When you can pry it out of my cold dead fingers. :) BTW, I planned to be buried with all of my OSI stuff... kind of Ancient Egyptian style. From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 12:06:01 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: First computer singing In-Reply-To: <200012201808.KAA13156@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > The original wasn't very good either. I just played the RealAudio on a > friend's PeeCee, went into the mixer's Recording settings, turned on > Wave Audio alone, and dumped it to disk as a .wav, then mp3'ed it up. > No, I didn't sit in front of the computer with a microphone and a tape > deck. ;-) I realize the original recording isn't that great, but I listened to the two one after the other and there is a highly noticeable hiss on the MP3. I think the sound hardware on your friend's PC sucks :) Let me try it on my end. How did you do it? Unfortunately I'm lame and can't figure it out :) Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 12:09:16 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > Excellent movie. Forgot that one. That also reminds me of a movie > called _Hot_Millions_. Probably the first movie to portray computer > crime. Can't seem to remember what computers are in it though. Hmmm, an English movie no less... "A Cockney con-artist just out of prison replaces an insurance company's computer programmer and sends claim checks to himself in various guises at addresses all over Europe. Meanwhile, he falls in love with inept secretary and frustrated flutist, Maggie Smith." (1968) I wonder if it's readily available state-side. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Dec 20 13:30:25 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Need TU10 Vacuum Sensors In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001220101222.00bbcbc0@cirithi> from Jay Jaeger at "Dec 20, 2000 10:34:00 am" Message-ID: <200012201930.eBKJUQb35009@bg-tc-ppp595.monmouth.com> > I have a TU10 that has worked, generally, for the 10 years since I got > it. However, earlier this year it failed, with problems during the load > sequence. > > I have traced the problem to failed (and nearly failed) vacuum > sensors. The two "fail safe" sensors at the bottom of the two columns had > both failed (I suspect because during operation they were always in a low > pressure state), and one of the other sensors near the bottom of one column > had also failed. I suspect at least one more failure is imminent. > > (The test is easy: if you can suck air thru it, its bad. ;-) I suppose > there is some kind of diaphragm in there which gets a hole it in when it > breaks). Yup... good old rubber baloon material (or something like that). > Micro Pneumatic Logic, P/N MPL 503. (These guys still exist! So I am > sending them an e-mail. But new ones are bound to be pricey). > > Thanks in advance for any help. > > Jay I'm not sure -- the 503 looks like the best bet. It looks like a direct replacement. Here's a few others http://www.presair.com/presvac.htm http://www.whitmancontrols.com/catalog/ http://www.majestic-controls.com/huba.html -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 20 13:54:28 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: First computer singing In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Dec 20, 0 10:06:01 am" Message-ID: <200012201954.LAA13408@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I realize the original recording isn't that great, but I listened to the > two one after the other and there is a highly noticeable hiss on the MP3. > I think the sound hardware on your friend's PC sucks :) > > Let me try it on my end. How did you do it? Unfortunately I'm lame and > can't figure it out :) Going from memory here, since I'm on the C128 to-day. Go to the Mixer control panel by double-clicking the speaker icon in systray. Options, Properties. Click Recording. Make sure Wave is checked. Click Okay, make sure all other channels are muted but Wave, and then go into Sound Recorder or whatever, start recording, and start playing the .ram file. That should do it. I seem to recall that not all sound cards can do this so maybe this won't work for you, though. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: You learn from your mistakes. Today will be very educational. ----- From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Dec 20 13:23:18 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: First computer singing In-Reply-To: <200012201954.LAA13408@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001220132203.02d0deb0@208.226.86.10> Alternatively you can put a stereo plug from line out to line in on your sound card and record from line-in and play the ram file to line out. (aka your speakers). Getting the line level can be a pain but it is doable. --Chuck At 11:54 AM 12/20/2000 -0800, you wrote: >That should do it. I seem to recall that not all sound cards can do this so >maybe this won't work for you, though. From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 14:58:33 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: First computer singing In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001220132203.02d0deb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > Alternatively you can put a stereo plug from line out to line in on > your sound card and record from line-in and play the ram file to line > out. (aka your speakers). Getting the line level can be a pain but it > is doable. Yeah, I've tried this before and the quality is not the greatest. I'd rather it be a pure digital conversion as opposed to being converted to analog and then back to digital. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Dec 20 16:52:49 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: First computer singing In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001220132203.02d0deb0@208.226.86.10> References: <200012201954.LAA13408@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001220165224.026a7c60@pc> At 01:23 PM 12/20/00 -0600, Chuck McManis wrote: >Alternatively you can put a stereo plug from line out to line in on your sound card and record from line-in and play the ram file to line out. (aka your speakers). Getting the line level can be a pain but it is doable. There are Win9x-compatible software hacks that'll do that without the cable, too. - John From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 16:26:03 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: First computer singing In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001220165224.026a7c60@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: > There are Win9x-compatible software hacks that'll do that without the > cable, too. Such as? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Dec 20 17:50:13 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: First computer singing In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Dec 20, 0 02:26:03 pm" Message-ID: <200012202350.PAA13518@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > There are Win9x-compatible software hacks that'll do that without the > > cable, too. > > Such as? Like, hacking the computer to death with a pickaxe and buying a Mac. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Xerox never comes up with anything original. ------------------------------- From harrison at timharrison.com Wed Dec 20 18:05:02 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: First computer singing References: <200012202350.PAA13518@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3A41492E.4279A6DF@timharrison.com> Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Like, hacking the computer to death with a pickaxe and buying a Mac. ;-) That would be a *hardware* hack, though. Close. :) Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From THETechnoid at home.com Wed Dec 20 19:07:50 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person In-Reply-To: <000401c0674b$d73ed040$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <20001221005856.MKZR17656.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Toad Computers (www.toad.net) sold a card for the PC that ran ST software. I think it was called the Gemulator. There are several shareware and commercial programs to emulate the ST without any hardware add ons. Go to the Little Green Desktop web page. You will find all you need and more. Regards, Jeff In <000401c0674b$d73ed040$0101010a@pentium2>, on 12/20/00 at 08:07 PM, "Gareth Knight" said: >Glen Goodwin wrote: >> Is there a Windows 9x emulator for this machine so they can run their old >> programs and use their old data? >Try the free emulators, Pacifist or Winston. Despite its age I prefer to >use Pacifist for Atari applications. A better choice would be MagiC, but >I have no idea where you can purchase it from. >> If not, can Calamus, WP, and Tracker data be transferred to a Win9x >machine >> and accessed using current Win9x programs? >Calamus & Word Perfect have been on magazine cover disks in the last >year. I realise this is little help, but may give you an idea of where to >get it from. >-- >Gareth Knight >Amiga Interactive Guide | Team Amiga | >http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress | -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 20 19:05:00 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Pro/Rainbow case Message-ID: I can be 100% certain that my Pro 325 is in the large case (same length as the desktop BA23 pretty much). And the Rainbow and Pro 350 that I have seen were in the same size case.. I dunno if I saw a 380 or not, but if Emanuel has one then I've seen it and it would live in the same case also... If anyone has manuals and software for the 325 let me know, I have none and am about to deepsix it due to frustration. Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Dec 20 20:06:09 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A400FF6.67F9FA67@coin.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20001220210609.008eed48@earthlink.net> At 07:48 PM 12/19/00 -0600, you wrote: >> Or do like I did for the Apple-1 auction at VCF 4.0: keep extending the >> auction for fifteen more minutes after each new bid came in within 15 >> minutes of the planned closing time. The bidding actually went on another >> 50 minutes or so before no more bids came in. > >Excellent idea. On-line it could be a shorter period, like 5 minutes, but it would >let the price develop to its full potential. Let's face it, at any auction, especially eBay where the bidding goes on for rediculous periods like 9 days, there will never be a method that is agreeable to both those selling the item, who want the most money it can possibly bring, and for those buying, who would like to spend as little as need-be. Personally, I snipe because I think bidding early does nothing but drive prices up to totally outrageous levels. This fact is commented on by members of this list almost constantly in the jokes made about the auctions there. Likely, whatever action one takes to curb either the inflated prices or sniping would be unacceptable to the other side, so it's doubtful a mutually agreeable system will be found. That's not even factoring in those with too much time and money on their hands where neither is an object when they decide they want a particular item. Just my 2 bits. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Power Computing PowerCurve, 288mhz G3, Mac OS 9 http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 Home Of The TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Dec 20 20:30:36 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: New musuem Item Message-ID: <020401c06af6$02aa7b00$8c711fd1@default> Today I picked up a HP 3000 980/100 at auction for $45. Still have not unloaded it yet need a way to get it off the van, they loaded it with a forklift. I just have the cpu no monitor or keyboard. Anyone have spec's on this unit. John Keys From optimus at canit.se Wed Dec 20 19:09:36 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <14912.23870.721305.295849@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <1057.390T1800T1295061optimus@canit.se> Dave McGuire skrev: > Ernest, as a frequent sniper, I sincerely apologize to you on behalf >of other snipers for ruining your experiences. But please try to see >it from the other side...it's a means to an end, it's nothing >personal. But do the end justify the means? I have also found it an unpleasurable experience to lose something which I have put a bid on in some cases several weeks ago, only to be outbid at the very last minute, possibly when I'm at school or fast asleep. In a real-life auction, there are the three rounds in which you may increase your bid, giving everyone a fair chance. On Ebay, the auctions do instead go on for weeks, and jumping in at the very end of this time frame is really quite dishonest. Some play with their cards on the table, whereas the snipers literally rip the thing out of your hands. It's really annoying, and and example of very bad behaviour. Perhaps the reason why anarchy doesn't work very well. -- En ligne avec Thor 2.6. Kyosuke: Jag heter Kurre, Kurre Carlsson! Jag: Det heter du inte alls! From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 19:39:36 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20001220210609.008eed48@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Jeff Hellige wrote: > Let's face it, at any auction, especially eBay where the bidding > goes on for rediculous periods like 9 days, there will never be a > method that is agreeable to both those selling the item, who want the > most money it can possibly bring, and for those buying, who would like > to spend as little as need-be. Personally, I snipe because I think > bidding early does nothing but drive prices up to totally outrageous > levels. This fact is commented on by members of this list almost > constantly in the jokes made about the auctions there. Likely, > whatever action one takes to curb either the inflated prices or > sniping would be unacceptable to the other side, so it's doubtful a > mutually agreeable system will be found. That's not even factoring in > those with too much time and money on their hands where neither is an > object when they decide they want a particular item. Just my 2 bits. This argument assumes that the eBay method of auctions has been around forever, which it has not. eBay's auction format is something completely new, and is completely biased towards the seller. I think they just happened to find this out by accident, and have kept it this way because it keeps the sellers happy, and the sellers are the ones that make eBay rich, so they are certainly not going to change things. An auction format that is sensible is the "going once, twice, sold" method which was used in newsgroups before online auctions came to be. It allows fair bidding, results in a fair price (for both buyer and seller), and so overall is fair for both buyers and sellers. Each party wins. The method I used, and that I want eBay to implement (but I know they never will) is to extend the auction deadline as each new bid comes in within X minutes of the deadline. This is fair and avoids the inflated prices that eBay promotes. But of course, eBay WANTS inflated prices. It's better for their bottom line, and they know it. Folks have just become accustomed to eBay's way of doing things and have never questioned it. In a sensible auction proceeding, sniping should not be possible, or even relevant. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From ecloud at bigfoot.com Wed Dec 20 21:01:07 2000 From: ecloud at bigfoot.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: ; from foo@siconic.com on Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 05:39:36PM -0800 References: <3.0.1.32.20001220210609.008eed48@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <20001220200107.P27124@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 05:39:36PM -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: > The method I used, and that I want eBay to implement (but I know they > never will) is to extend the auction deadline as each new bid comes in > within X minutes of the deadline. This is fair and avoids the inflated > prices that eBay promotes. But of course, eBay WANTS inflated prices. Hmmm, from my observations when OnSale does this, the prices get more inflated if the auction is extended. People don't know when to quit. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ From marvin at rain.org Wed Dec 20 21:07:27 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: <1057.390T1800T1295061optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <3A4173EF.1AADA2BB@rain.org> Iggy Drougge wrote: > On Ebay, the > auctions do instead go on for weeks, and jumping in at the very end of this > time frame is really quite dishonest. Some play with their cards on the table, > whereas the snipers literally rip the thing out of your hands. It's really > annoying, and and example of very bad behaviour. Annoying? Perhaps, but bad behavior? No way. Re: playing with their cards on the table; I don't really understand what you are saying here. If the bidders bid their maximum bid at any time during the bidding, whether they were sniped or not is irrelevant. Saying that early bidders should have priority over those that bid at the last minute (and I don't *think* you are saying that) would also be wrong. The whole sniping issue is not about bidding late in the game, but rather one of the perceived worth of an item. Snipers and non-snipers are both trying to get something at the lowest price and the issue of sniping or not sniping is just smoke and mirrors. Bidding what someone thinks an item is worth has no relationship to the time the bid was submitted. From louiss at gate.net Wed Dec 20 21:07:27 2000 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Pro/Rainbow case In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200012210309.WAA69888@cocopah.gate.net> I am not sure what this posting relates to. However, I have several Rainbows and a Pro 350 (with the tower floor stand) and can state categorically that the Pro 350 is in a bigger case than the Rainbows, although its (the case's) design is virtually identical. In fact, I had wanted to use the floor stand with a Rainbow, but it is too large. Louis Schulman On Wed, 20 Dec 2000 18:05:00 -0700, Will Jennings wrote: >I can be 100% certain that my Pro 325 is in the large case (same length as >the desktop BA23 pretty much). And the Rainbow and Pro 350 that I have seen >were in the same size case.. I dunno if I saw a 380 or not, but if Emanuel >has one then I've seen it and it would live in the same case also... If >anyone has manuals and software for the 325 let me know, I have none and am >about to deepsix it due to frustration. > >Will J >_________________________________________________________________ >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 20:17:35 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <1057.390T1800T1295061optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 21 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: > But do the end justify the means? I have also found it an > unpleasurable experience to lose something which I have put a bid on > in some cases several weeks ago, only to be outbid at the very last > minute, possibly when I'm at school or fast asleep. In a real-life > auction, there are the three rounds in which you may increase your > bid, giving everyone a fair chance. On Ebay, the auctions do instead > go on for weeks, and jumping in at the very end of this time frame is > really quite dishonest. Some play with their cards on the table, > whereas the snipers literally rip the thing out of your hands. It's > really annoying, and and example of very bad behaviour. Perhaps the > reason why anarchy doesn't work very well. Whine. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Wed Dec 20 20:22:18 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <20001220200107.P27124@cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 05:39:36PM -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > The method I used, and that I want eBay to implement (but I know they > > never will) is to extend the auction deadline as each new bid comes in > > within X minutes of the deadline. This is fair and avoids the inflated > > prices that eBay promotes. But of course, eBay WANTS inflated prices. > > Hmmm, from my observations when OnSale does this, the prices get more > inflated if the auction is extended. People don't know when to quit. Stupid people who don't know the real worth of something (as far as being able to get it much cheaper somewhere else or who bid above retail for instance) don't know when to quit. It's called being an educated buyer as opposed to an ignorant one, and regardless of whether it leads to inflated prices because of idiots, it is still a fair process. I've seen people at live auctions bid on cars for far more than even their Blue Book value. But at least you still had a fair opportunity to bid against this person until their stupidity proportionally outweighed your wallet. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Dec 20 22:23:58 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.20001220210609.008eed48@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20001220232358.008f20bc@earthlink.net> At 05:39 PM 12/20/00 -0800, you wrote: >An auction format that is sensible is the "going once, twice, sold" method >which was used in newsgroups before online auctions came to be. It allows >fair bidding, results in a fair price (for both buyer and seller), and so >overall is fair for both buyers and sellers. Each party wins. >The method I used, and that I want eBay to implement (but I know they >never will) is to extend the auction deadline as each new bid comes in >within X minutes of the deadline. This is fair and avoids the inflated >prices that eBay promotes. But of course, eBay WANTS inflated prices. >It's better for their bottom line, and they know it. I agree with you totally. I've never been a fan of eBay's format, though I've participated in thier auctions for a number of years now. In that time period, whether I agree with it or not, I've found that in order to be sucessful in winning eBay auctions it is more often than not necessary to snipe...that or bid far above what I'm willing to pay for a particular item. There is unlikely to be anything I can do to sway eBay's bias towards the seller and the price inflation that happens because of it, so I do what I have to do to make the system work for me without overinflating the prices. This isn't to say I haven't knowling overpaid for a particular item when I decide it is worth it to me personally to do so though, because I have. BTW, the 'going once, twice, sold' format is still used quite a lot in the newsgroups that cater to the classic gaming platforms for selling cartridges and such. It does work quite well. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Power Computing PowerCurve, 288mhz G3, Mac OS 9 http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 Home Of The TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ From jhellige at earthlink.net Wed Dec 20 22:29:30 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person In-Reply-To: <20001221005856.MKZR17656.femail2.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci2232 29-a> References: <000401c0674b$d73ed040$0101010a@pentium2> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20001220232930.008f45d0@earthlink.net> At 08:07 PM 12/20/00 -0500, you wrote: >Toad Computers (www.toad.net) sold a card for the PC that ran ST software. >I think it was called the Gemulator. I believe Toad is out of the Atari business now...the last time I checked out their website, all of the Atari stuff had been removed. I've not been up to their store in a number of years though. The 'closet' that housed the 8-bit stuff was always pretty interesting to rummage through. I never used Gemulator, which does sound correct for the name, but I did use the 8-bit emulator they sold. Does Best Electronics still sell ST stuff? They were a bit pricey the last time I looked, but they carried quite a bit. At the time when I had only FIDO access they were the only place I could find a replacement ST/STE keyboard for my MEGA. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Power Computing PowerCurve, 288mhz G3, Mac OS 9 http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 Home Of The TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ From wpfulmor at dimensional.com Wed Dec 20 22:35:01 2000 From: wpfulmor at dimensional.com (William Fulmor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > This argument assumes that the eBay method of auctions has been around > forever, which it has not. eBay's auction format is something completely > new, and is completely biased towards the seller. [...] Unhhh no. Sorry. Unless a 50 year old auction system counts as 'completely new'. http://www.britannica.com/seo/w/william-vickrey Excerpts: Vickrey, William, b. June 21, 1914, Victoria, B.C., Can. d. Oct. 11, 1996, Harrison, N.Y., U.S. in full WILLIAM SPENCER VICKREY Canadian-born American economist who was credited with innovations in the analysis of the problems of incomplete, or asymmetrical, information. He shared the 1996 Nobel Prize for Economics with James A. Mirrlees of Great Britain. [...] In naming him for the 1996 Nobel Prize, the selection committee specifically cited his novel approach to auctioneering (now known as a Vickrey auction), which, through sealed bidding, awards the auctioned item to the highest bidder but at the sum bid by the second-highest bidder. According to Vickrey, in guaranteeing the lower price, both buyers and sellers benefit from bids that more accurately reflect the value of the item. [...] > I think they just > happened to find this out by accident, and have kept it this way because > it keeps the sellers happy, and the sellers are the ones that make eBay > rich, so they are certainly not going to change things. I have no idea if eBay selected Vickrey's model, or duplicated it by accident, but AFAICT the only difference between theirs and his is that with eBay, the winner pays one bid increment above the runner up's bid, instead of exactly the lower bid. Vickrey developed his auction method at the request of the USG following WW II when there were *mountains* of military surplus to be disposed of. Holding 'outcry' auctions was out of the question because of the volume. Single round sealed bid auctions were considered to be the best possible method logistically, but up to that time were known to produce low bids because each bidder was afraid that if he offered his *best* price he might miss a bargain. (sound familiar?) Of course Uncle Sugar wanted the best possible price (taxpayer's money, and all that). But it's eBay's business for them to grow or kill. Anyone else is welcome to start a different kind of web based auction. Is this O/T, or what? From KenzieM at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 20 22:45:22 2000 From: KenzieM at sympatico.ca (Mike Kenzie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:48 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: Message-ID: <000d01c06b08$d4cda050$0101a8c0@sympatico.ca> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Fulmor" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 11:35 PM Subject: Re: Snipe S/W? > On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > This argument assumes that the eBay method of auctions has been around > > forever, which it has not. eBay's auction format is something completely > > new, and is completely biased towards the seller. > [...] > > In naming him for the 1996 Nobel Prize, the selection committee > specifically cited his novel approach to auctioneering (now known > as a Vickrey auction), which, through sealed bidding, awards the > auctioned item to the highest bidder but at the sum bid by the > second-highest bidder. According to Vickrey, in guaranteeing the lower > price, both buyers and sellers benefit from bids that more accurately > reflect the value of the item. > > I have no idea if eBay selected Vickrey's model, or duplicated it by > accident, but AFAICT the only difference between theirs and his is that > with eBay, the winner pays one bid increment above the runner up's bid, > instead of exactly the lower bid. The ebay auctions are not sealed, which results in higher bids, and people placing multiple bids. With a sealed bid auction no one knows the outcome until the envelopes are opened and the winning amount read. With the Vickery auction the high bidder doesn't know the price until all the bids have been read. > Is this O/T, or what? yup From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Wed Dec 20 23:05:31 2000 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: ; from wpfulmor@dimensional.com on Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 09:35:01PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20001221000531.D6580@alcor.concordia.ca> On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 09:35:01PM -0700, William Fulmor (wpfulmor@dimensional.com) wrote: > On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > > This argument assumes that the eBay method of auctions has been around > > forever, which it has not. eBay's auction format is something completely > > new, and is completely biased towards the seller. > > [...] > > Unhhh no. Sorry. Unless a 50 year old auction system counts as > 'completely new'. > > http://www.britannica.com/seo/w/william-vickrey A second-bidder auction without sealed bids is not a Vickrey auction. You can't snipe a Vickrey auction. > > I have no idea if eBay selected Vickrey's model, or duplicated it by > accident, but AFAICT the only difference between theirs and his is that > with eBay, the winner pays one bid increment above the runner up's bid, > instead of exactly the lower bid. They got that part mostly right; the idea of "bid increments" would be unnecessary in a Vickrey auction for a simple reason. In a Vickrey auction, the problem of incomplete information is equal for all bidders, while in an eBay auction, the current winner is on the losing side of an information imbalance. The simplest example of the difference I can think of is that you can submit a high-but-not-too-high bid five days before the close of a Vickrey auction and win if the other bidders bid less, even if the other bidders decide after having found out your bid that that price would have been reasonable (since, after all, someone was offering it). In an eBay auction, submitting a high-but-not-too-high bid five days before an auction gives other bidders the opportunity to bid increasingly higher increments to get an idea of how high your maximum *is*; at that point, they need only wait until the end to bid over it so that you don't have *time* to bid higher. *Since* that situation exists, it becomes rational for *all* participants to hide their information, meaning that all those bidders that are able to do so will wait until the last moment to make their bid, at which point the auction is decided as much by network latency and chance as it is by matters of value and market forces. I'm not aware of any non-Web auction procedure which when followed without prejudice makes it possible for someone to win on the basis of timing rather than bid. > Is this O/T, or what? Yeah, but it's given me a great idea for a thesis. -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From doug at blinkenlights.com Wed Dec 20 21:59:41 2000 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, William Fulmor wrote: > I have no idea if eBay selected Vickrey's model, or duplicated it by > accident, but AFAICT the only difference between theirs and his is that > with eBay, the winner pays one bid increment above the runner up's bid, > instead of exactly the lower bid. Vickrey's is a "sealed bid" auction. eBay's is not. eBay also has a "reserve" that acts as a trap door if you set your proxy bid above that level. AFAIK, eBay originated their particular system. But I think Sellam was bitching about the "beat the clock" elements of the auction that encourage sniping. I'm sure eBay didn't invent that aspect, but I don't know who did (I only know of an earlier online implementation). Personally, I find sniping inconvenient because to do it well requires third-party software -- it should be built into the system. But it's just part of the game. In effect, eBay auctions have a duration of about one second (and a preview period of a few days). Cheers, Doug From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Dec 20 23:11:34 2000 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Pro/Rainbow case Message-ID: <36.fa61cc0.2772eb06@aol.com> The Pro 325, 350 and the 380s use the same case which is about 3 inches wider than the Rainbows. The Pro series can be upgraded by just swapping the Motherboards. They also have an interior upright cardcage for the accessory cards. I think this is why they need the larger case. In the Rainbow the accessory cards lay parallel and on top of the Motherboard. Both use different floor stands that look alike but are different sizes. Paxton From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Dec 20 23:26:10 2000 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Nova 3 Availiable Message-ID: One of scrappers has got in a Nova 3 that he is interested in selling. it appears to be a 12 slot card cage with the following cards. Nova 3 CPU D4864 Nova 3 Triple option 8534 2 16K SCMEM 1638 & 0659 DGC nova Cassette I/O 4F-0334 DGC Nova Compatable wiring board 005-000-449-04 Disk Cartridge Control 4134 another DGC Nova Cassette I/o 5075 There is also a DG removable pack disk drive 4234 I have not seen it yet but I think it is missing the plastic front covers. If anyone is interested please contact me off list and I will try to find more about it. I suspect it is heavy but I have considerable experience in shipping this type of hardware. It has been about 9 years since I have seen a Nova 3. Paxton Portland, OR From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 21 00:07:44 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: $3551 Sol??? References: Message-ID: <003d01c06b14$557c47a0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Well, it's the true worth of THAT Sol. The next one may not be so fortunate. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Stek" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 4:38 AM Subject: RE: $3551 Sol??? > Obviously, the "true" worth of the Sol has been realized! > > > > Bob Stek > Saver of Lost Sols > > From jrasite at eoni.com Thu Dec 21 00:37:36 2000 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: <20001221000531.D6580@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <3A41A519.68E61DDE@eoni.com> I do a fair amount of buying on ebay and here's what I've learned... If you want an item and you know what a fair price is, bid that amount on the last day of the auction. (Example: Mac IIfx motherboard that I wanted. 32 mb ram included. Fair price for board was about $20, fair price for ram was about $25. I bid $45 while the bidding was in the low teens. I watched the snipers bounce off my bid up to $31. Then it was mine. A deal.) If you find an item with one bid with two minutes to go, bid the fair amount in the last ten seconds. There are numerous utilities to sync your system clock. Use 'em. (Example: PDS/Nubus adapter sat with one bid for seven days. I needed it, I sniped it. But once again, I was willing to pay a 'fair' price.) The key words above are "FAIR PRICE"!!! If you're willing to pay what the market price is, you'll usually end up with it. Sniping is a fact of life. You just deal with it. Pay a fair price and don't worry about it. The reason that I asked about 'sniping s/w' is the feature of being able to bid on multiple items and bail on the bids further down the line when you get what you're after. Jim From jate at uwasa.fi Thu Dec 21 01:16:47 2000 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Hermanni Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Painting a VT-100 ? In-Reply-To: <20001220155436.E11959@loisto.uwasa.fi>; from jate@UWasa.Fi on Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 03:54:36PM +0200 References: <20001220092405.B11959@loisto.uwasa.fi> <200012201205.eBKC5u434150@bg-tc-ppp595.monmouth.com> <20001220155436.E11959@loisto.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: <20001221091647.F11959@loisto.uwasa.fi> On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 03:54:36PM +0200, Jarkko Hermanni Teppo wrote: > I also found a working Osborne 1 without > boot disks, so now I'm in search of those + kermit as well. > Thanks to all who replied ! I'm in constant amazement of how this list comes through when you need help, probably the wisest thing (internetwise) I've done was joining this list:) Anyway, the Osborne has the following ports (from left to right): Modem, 9-pin D male RS-232, DB25 female IEEE-488 card edge connector Keyboard via a coiled cable Brightness and contrast knobs EXT video with a "Do not remove while power is on"-dongle Reset button Battery, 9-ping D male RCA phono jack with no markings, I presume this is for video Now I need to dig up my 5.25" drives and try to write the disks. After I'm finished with setting the Osborne up I'll try to tackle with an ADM-3A with Retrographics RG-512 graphics expansion. -- jht From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 21 00:21:29 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, William Fulmor wrote: > In naming him for the 1996 Nobel Prize, the selection committee > specifically cited his novel approach to auctioneering (now known > as a Vickrey auction), which, through sealed bidding, awards the > auctioned item to the highest bidder but at the sum bid by the > second-highest bidder. According to Vickrey, in guaranteeing the lower > price, both buyers and sellers benefit from bids that more accurately > reflect the value of the item. William, please explain in what way this describes the eBay auction mechanism? eBay does not used a sealed bid. A sealed bid auction is quite different than what eBay uses. And of course the high bid is what is paid. > I have no idea if eBay selected Vickrey's model, or duplicated it by > accident, but AFAICT the only difference between theirs and his is that > with eBay, the winner pays one bid increment above the runner up's bid, > instead of exactly the lower bid. What are you talking about? Wouldn't "one bid increment above the runner up's bid" just mean the high bid??? And again, they did not use Vickrey's method. > Is this O/T, or what? Always is, and obnoxious to boot. I motion for the creation of the "!@%^$# eBay Gripe Mailing List" and that any message coming to CC that has "eBay" (case insensitive) within the header or body will be automatically routed to that list. Then people who actually care to wade through all this eBay bullshit could subscribe to that list. Can I get a second? Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 21 01:43:13 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <20001221000531.D6580@alcor.concordia.ca> References: ; from wpfulmor@dimensional.com on Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 09:35:01PM -0700 Message-ID: >A second-bidder auction without sealed bids is not a Vickrey auction. >You can't snipe a Vickrey auction. >> >> I have no idea if eBay selected Vickrey's model, or duplicated it by >> accident, but AFAICT the only difference between theirs and his is that >> with eBay, the winner pays one bid increment above the runner up's bid, >> instead of exactly the lower bid. The problem I see with the Vickrey auction is that it better have a "strong" penalty for default, otherwise you could just bid HIGH knowing you would only pay the last "sensible" bid amount unless some other nut was out there bidding high too. With 1 nut, he wins all the auctions at a fair price, with 2 nuts, most likely one or both will default. Case in Point, Dutch auction on ebay of 5 power supplies, and to sweeten the deal the seller is offering a an item worth as much just about as a power supply as a bonus to the high bidder. Most bids were around $10, then a $20 bid shows up, then a $25, then a $35 sniped in at the last minute. Everybody paid less than about $12 (lowest winning bid), but I was QUITE tempted to drop in my own last minute bid of $37 just to raise the minimum bid a notch or two. (yes I wanted both the power supply and bonus item, and happen to know the seller who is a nice guy deserving of the overall higher price.) My point is that the high bidders only made the bids they did with the expectation of n-1 nuts, so they didn't have to make good on the full bid amount. From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Dec 21 01:50:23 2000 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: ; from foo@siconic.com on Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 10:21:29PM -0800 References: Message-ID: <20001221025023.A18826@alcor.concordia.ca> On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 10:21:29PM -0800, Sellam Ismail (foo@siconic.com) wrote: > > > I have no idea if eBay selected Vickrey's model, or duplicated it by > > accident, but AFAICT the only difference between theirs and his is that > > with eBay, the winner pays one bid increment above the runner up's bid, > > instead of exactly the lower bid. > > What are you talking about? Wouldn't "one bid increment above the runner > up's bid" just mean the high bid??? And again, they did not use Vickrey's > method. No. If we're both bidding on an auction, I bid $1000, and you bid $30, I'll end up paying about $31, if the minimum bid increment is $1. > > Is this O/T, or what? Hrm, I didn't respond to this part in the first bit of the message. No, I think strategies to win auctions is pretty on-topic on this list. > Always is, and obnoxious to boot. Agreed, you are. Painfully and consistently so. I've never seen someone bring me so close to unsubscribing so often. Maybe it's just time for a killfile. If only mail had long References: threads. > I motion for the creation of the > "!@%^$# eBay Gripe Mailing List" > and that any message coming to CC that > has "eBay" (case insensitive) > within the header or body will be > automatically routed to that list. > Then people who actually care to wade > through all this eBay bullshit > could subscribe to that list. > > Can I get a second? I'd prefer that "bullshit" that's relevant to buying and selling classic computers to much of that which spews forth from you. I'd also prefer you get off your high horse and realize that there are other people on the list than you, despite what you'd *prefer* to think. -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From doug at blinkenlights.com Thu Dec 21 00:50:58 2000 From: doug at blinkenlights.com (Doug Salot) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: MACLISP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Anybody know where I can find a MACLISP reference manual? (BTW, In this case, MAC refers to Project MAC (Multiple Access Computer?), and not the cute little box from Cupertino). Thanks, Doug From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 21 05:05:38 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <1057.390T1800T1295061optimus@canit.se> References: <14912.23870.721305.295849@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: >> Ernest, as a frequent sniper, I sincerely apologize to you on behalf >>of other snipers for ruining your experiences. But please try to see >>it from the other side...it's a means to an end, it's nothing >>personal. > >But do the end justify the means? I have also found it an unpleasurable >experience to lose something which I have put a bid on in some cases several >weeks ago, only to be outbid at the very last minute, possibly when I'm at Fantasy is often pleasurable, but on eBay NOTHING matters until the last 30 seconds or less. Either play the game, or bid your max. New nasty bidding technique I just started playing with tonight. Search for an item, sort by price ascending, then work through all the buy it now listings and make your kill on the fresh meat. From ernestls at home.com Thu Dec 21 08:47:05 2000 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>>Ernest, as a frequent sniper, I sincerely apologize to you on behalf >>>of other snipers for ruining your experiences. But please try to see >>>it from the other side...it's a means to an end, it's nothing >>>personal. Oh, I know. Getting mugged isn't personal either, it's just a means to an end. >Fantasy is often pleasurable, but on eBay NOTHING matters until the last 30 >seconds or less. Either play the game, or bid your max. Yep. That's what I was saying -ebay should only allow bids to be made in the last 30 seconds. You could still place your max bid earlier, or try for it in the last 30 seconds but ebay would only tally the bids once it reaches the last 30 seconds of the bid. ...and like every fantasy, most of learn at a young age that there will always be someone to ruin it for us. That's why snipping is self perpetuating -if you know that there's going to be a jerk at the end no matter what you do, the jerk might as well be you. Thus, the snipping continues. >New nasty bidding technique I just started playing with tonight. Search for >an item, sort by price ascending, then work through all the buy it now >listings and make your kill on the fresh meat. I don't see that as nasty. You're just looking for items that you can buy outright. That is a completely different thing. "Buy it Now" is straight forward and honest. Snipping is crooked and mean spirited. I'm not an idealist about this stuff. I know that most people are basically self centered and self interested. The part that bothers me is that, since sneakiness and this sort of borderline deceit doesn't come naturally to me, I was caught with my mouth open when the pie hit my face -so to speak, and I felt stupid for not knowing better, for not assuming that people will always find a way to beat the system at everyone elses expense. I was left feeling foolish and gullable when I should have known better -that's what really annoys me. Ernest From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 21 08:42:12 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.20001220210609.008eed48@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001221082405.0267c350@pc> At 05:39 PM 12/20/00 -0800, you wrote: >An auction format that is sensible is the "going once, twice, sold" method >which was used in newsgroups before online auctions came to be. It allows >fair bidding, results in a fair price (for both buyer and seller), and so >overall is fair for both buyers and sellers. Each party wins. >In a sensible auction proceeding, sniping should not >be possible, or even relevant. One man's snipe bid is another man's bid. How do you determine a sensible period between "going once" and "going twice"? In a real-world auction where they're in a hurry to move to the next item, N seems to be between zero and two seconds. In your system, would I not be able to join the bidding between "going once" and "going twice"? Why not? Because I'm morally flawed for finding the auction at the last minute? Maybe the only reason I saw the auction was because it was at the top of the search results because it had five minutes to go. To better fulfill this market, and perhaps aid the classic computer collector, I wish there were better mechanisms for obscure items, over longer periods of time. A great deal of eBay's success seems to be people fulfilling long-held wishes for items they couldn't acquire earlier in their lives. I really want the 1962-era Knickerbocker Yogi Bear plush doll with the soft hands, not the hard hands. One seems to come up every three-four months, and I've missed two, I think, not to snipers, but to an unwillingness (so far) to pay more than $40 total. I don't remember what happened to my Yogi in the late 60s, but I'm willing to wait to replace him. I wish eBay had better mechanisms for managing the time period of auctions. For some items, why not have an indefinite time period, and let the seller determine when the auction count-down starts? For example, if I want to sell a very obscure item that I don't want to sell for $1, I could let the description sit for a month (to attract flies and lure bidders) and then when 10 bidders have signed up to show interest, I start the 3-day auction period in today's fashion. In fact, this is this morning's business idea. You could leverage eBay's present mechanism in toto, and all of the above could reside at a second site, and part of your service fee would include auto-posting the info to eBay. Call it "preBay.com". Well, the domain's taken but there's no web there... and there's even a revenue stream from mini-payments ($1?) from users of the service. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 21 08:50:53 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Fwd: DEC stuff for sale, central Ohio Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001221084916.02711310@pc> An unsolicited e-mail I received today: >From: "evan stickney" >To: jfoust@threedee.com >Subject: vax >Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:18:57 -0500 > >Some DEC stuff I have for sale. Dear Sirs; We have the following items for sale in Central Ohio: Digital LP26 printer DEC writer VAX 11/750 TU80 tape drive RA60 disk unit/ RA 61 module DF03 modem VT125 terminal (5) RA 60 disk media 23 DEC tape II cartridges 64 tape cartridges with DEC software titles 4 Hammermill Paper boxes of documentation (27) B-300-600 ribbons I realize some of these items are bulky or in excess of 300 lbs. I will consider parting out larger units since many people just need pieces to keep theirs running. Software/documentation titles on request. I think that the tapes are good but have no way of checking. From whdawson at mlynk.com Thu Dec 21 09:14:24 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c06b60$b4291e80$0e9f72d1@cobweb.net> -> Case in Point, Dutch auction on ebay of 5 power supplies, and to sweeten -> the deal the seller is offering a an item worth as much just about as a -> power supply as a bonus to the high bidder. Most bids were around $10, then -> a $20 bid shows up, then a $25, then a $35 sniped in at the last minute. -> Everybody paid less than about $12 (lowest winning bid), but I was QUITE -> tempted to drop in my own last minute bid of $37 just to raise the minimum -> bid a notch or two. (yes I wanted both the power supply and bonus item, and -> happen to know the seller who is a nice guy deserving of the overall higher -> price.) My point is that the high bidders only made the bids they did with -> the expectation of n-1 nuts, so they didn't have to make good on the full -> bid amount. Dutch auctions where the items offered are not identical are not allowed according to eBay rules. Adding a bonus item, or as some sellers do, state that the nicest or best item will go to the highest bidder, is also not allowed. If an auction like this is brought to eBay's attention, it will be terminated. Bill whdawson*at*mlynk.com From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Dec 21 09:26:16 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies Message-ID: Can anyone tell me what kind of computers were in the movie "Colossus the Forbin Project (1969)". I found a pointer and I vaguely remember the movie, but I don't remember the computers. U.S. and Russia develop computers to control nuclear weapons, the computers take over. http://www.stanford.edu/~mgritter/colossus.html Mike mmccfadden@cmh.edu From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 21 09:36:44 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: <20001221025023.A18826@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <002001c06b64$20c72e80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I'm often tempted to "jump" Sellam's arguments just because HE's the one who made them, but you have to allow for the fact that "where you sit determines what you see." He's in a different situation than most of us, and in fact I'm in a different situation than most of us as well. He wants to complete a really broad selection of classic computers and computer-related hardware/software. Some parts of what he wants are pretty rare, and for his purposes, he really MUST have them. Most of the rest of us are pretty narrow in our respective specialties. He's not. Now I can see how it p*sses him off when he sees THE one item he's needing to make a section of his collection work a certain way go for about $2k more than he's prepared to pay, particularly when he didn't buy it for $50 because he thought that was a mite high. The fact is, there are many different points of view out there among the general public, some of which might be quite inconprehensible to those of us who are trying to build a relatively homogeneous collection on a budget somewhat less than the national debt. The priorities of those building an "eclectic" collection might even be lost on those with a homogeneous one. If you're building a collection of Cromemco S-100 systems, you might be willing to pay quite a bit for that last really rare item in the collection. If you've got ten such items to collect, as Sellam certainly has, the price is a MAJOR issue, and the fact that the one rarity needed to complete one segment of his collection is currently available is, perhaps, not as important as that fact that paying too much for one such item may make it difficult to pay what's reasonable for another. My own situation is that I've got very little that I want, yet have quite a bit of "stuff" that should be of interest to someone else, and I'm interested not only in getting each item to a "good home" where it will be used and not just grist for the sell-and-trade mill, I'm also interested in getting the best price or trade for what I'm offering. eBay hasn't done much for me, but I have, essentially, gotten pretty much what I paid, 20 years ago, for the more uncommon items. A couple of times that hasn't worked out so favorably. Since I'm not a buyer, I can't object to high prices. Consequently, I don't agree with Sellam's complaints that eBay prices wind up too high. It certainly hasn't worked that way for me. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Lafferty" To: Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 12:50 AM Subject: Re: Snipe S/W? > On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 10:21:29PM -0800, Sellam Ismail (foo@siconic.com) wrote: > > > > > I have no idea if eBay selected Vickrey's model, or duplicated it by > > > accident, but AFAICT the only difference between theirs and his is that > > > with eBay, the winner pays one bid increment above the runner up's bid, > > > instead of exactly the lower bid. > > > > What are you talking about? Wouldn't "one bid increment above the runner > > up's bid" just mean the high bid??? And again, they did not use Vickrey's > > method. > > No. If we're both bidding on an auction, I bid $1000, and you bid $30, > I'll end up paying about $31, if the minimum bid increment is $1. > > > > Is this O/T, or what? > > Hrm, I didn't respond to this part in the first bit of the > message. No, I think strategies to win auctions is pretty on-topic on > this list. > > > Always is, and obnoxious to boot. > > Agreed, you are. Painfully and consistently so. I've never seen > someone bring me so close to unsubscribing so often. Maybe it's just > time for a killfile. If only mail had long References: threads. > > > I motion for the creation of the > "!@%^$# eBay Gripe Mailing List" > > and that any message coming to CC that > has "eBay" (case insensitive) > > within the header or body will be > automatically routed to that list. > > Then people who actually care to wade > through all this eBay bullshit > > could subscribe to that list. > > > > Can I get a second? > > I'd prefer that "bullshit" that's relevant to buying and selling > classic computers to much of that which spews forth from you. > > I'd also prefer you get off your high horse and realize that there are > other people on the list than you, despite what you'd *prefer* to > think. > > -Rich > > -- > ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- > Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services > Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 > ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- > > From chris at mainecoon.com Thu Dec 21 10:26:40 2000 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies References: Message-ID: <3A422F40.1191D994@mainecoon.com> "McFadden, Mike" wrote: > Can anyone tell me what kind of computers were in the movie "Colossus the > Forbin Project (1969)". At the time I thought the cabinets looked a great deal like CDC channel controllers, but these days I'm not even sure I remember what _those_ look like...++++++ -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Dec 21 10:32:45 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: MACLISP Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3ED@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Anybody know where I can find a MACLISP reference manual? > > (BTW, In this case, MAC refers to Project MAC (Multiple > Access Computer?), and not the cute little box from Cupertino). I have a copy of Bernie Greenburg's MacLisp manual. However, due to an on-going problem in which I sent my DECsystem-10 Commands Manual to Eric Smith for copying, and due to the fact that despite his best intentions, I still have not received it back, I'm a bit reluctant to let it out of my grasp for scanning. I'd photocopy it, but it's already a third generation copy, I think, so I'm not sure how well it would turn out. I'll bring it in to the office and give it a try... However, if anyone could get Eric Smith to actually get me my DEC manual back, I'd feel a little safer in letting it go. Bear in mind I consider Eric to honest and forthright, he's clearly just spreading himiself a little too thinly. But when things like this happen in transactions with people I meet in a public forum, I'm just unable to bring myself to take a chance again... conditionally. Regardless, if it looks like it will copy OK, I'll just send you a copy. Regards, -doug q From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Dec 21 11:06:01 2000 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Vintage computers in movies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, McFadden, Mike wrote: > Can anyone tell me what kind of computers were in the movie "Colossus the > Forbin Project (1969)". I found a pointer and I vaguely remember the movie, > but I don't remember the computers. U.S. and Russia develop computers to > control nuclear weapons, the computers take over. > > http://www.stanford.edu/~mgritter/colossus.html Well... Control Data was credited with providing the equipment, tho various people have observed that there appeared to be some IBM'ish console scattered about in various places, then the 'Selectric' terminals on the stations in the 'Colossus Programming Office', and the ASR-33 Teletypes from various scenes. (White House briefing room, etc.) Then, in the mountain and some consoles in the CPO was seen various Tektronix items, specifically some 'scopes running displays and some Tek 'Digital Units' which are basically signal memorys for the scopes. I have one of these units in my collection. Somewhere in the archives I've got some of the original studio 'press kits' on the movie which as I recall address some of these questions. I'll see if I can locate them. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 Note: the 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. The original 'Garage' site (URL above) is still out there and is currently being updated. From nabil at SpiritOne.com Thu Dec 21 11:10:12 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <1057.390T1800T1295061optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: On 21 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: > Dave McGuire skrev: > > > Ernest, as a frequent sniper, I sincerely apologize to you on behalf > >of other snipers for ruining your experiences. But please try to see > >it from the other side...it's a means to an end, it's nothing > >personal. > > But do the end justify the means? I have also found it an unpleasurable > experience to lose something which I have put a bid on in some cases several > weeks ago, only to be outbid at the very last minute, possibly when I'm at > school or fast asleep. In a real-life auction, there are the three rounds in > which you may increase your bid, giving everyone a fair chance. On Ebay, the > auctions do instead go on for weeks, and jumping in at the very end of this > time frame is really quite dishonest. Some play with their cards on the table, > whereas the snipers literally rip the thing out of your hands. It's really > annoying, and and example of very bad behaviour. Perhaps the reason why > anarchy doesn't work very well. As I'm sure other people will or have pointed out, ebay is not the same format as a "real life auction". Snipers are playing by Ebay's rules and according to the auction format, and although annoying, it's certainly not "bad behavior". Sniping only works as long as people do not use the proxy system to bid up to the maximum they are willing to pay. If everyone used the proxy system and entered the maximum they were willing to pay, sniping would instantly stop being useful. If I can offer advise, use the proxy system. Enter the amount maximum amount you are willing to pay. You have absolutely, irrevocably defused ANY danger of sniping. -- Aaron Nabil From rthompson at efw.com Thu Dec 21 11:15:08 2000 From: rthompson at efw.com (Ron Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Box of TK50 and QD6150/6250 tapes!!>PLEASE RESPOND Do you still have the TK50s for sale? Ron Thompson Calibration / Integration Specialist EFW, Inc. 4700 Marine Creek Pkwy. Fort Worth, TX 76179 rthompson@efw.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001221/8421e53a/attachment.html From LFessen106 at aol.com Thu Dec 21 11:27:59 2000 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! Message-ID: Can anyone on the list help me out with my SGI's? I made a trade a trade for 2 Personal Iris 4D/35's. Cool lookin' computers, however, I have a few problems..... Neither one has a KB, Mouse or Monitor, and although a decent SVGA works fine, I can't for the life of me find the KB/Mouse for these anywhere (they have the ps2 style connector, but are *not* ps2 compatable). After hooking them up to a Dumb Terminal I find that they both work (at least up to the prom) and 1 actually will boot into Irix 4.0.2... The other has no detectable OS. The one that *does* boot to Irix has a root password that I don't have (of course). Is there any way to gain root access on that machine other than removing the drive and mounting it on another box to change the passwd / crack it? After I do actually get the one box running can I somehow transfer the OS from one to the other? I read somewhere there was a prom command to duplicate hard drives??? Is there someone on the list willing to part with an old copy of Irix? These machines will only run up to 5.0.3 I think.. Anyone have a spare KB/Mouse for these machines? I can run them (when I get them working) from a Dumb Terminal, but would rather experience the famous SGI GUI. Any other hints / tips / suggestions would be greatly appreciated! -Linc F. From optimus at canit.se Thu Dec 21 11:49:34 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20001220232930.008f45d0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Jeff Hellige wrote: > At 08:07 PM 12/20/00 -0500, you wrote: > >Toad Computers (www.toad.net) sold a card for the PC that ran ST software. > >I think it was called the Gemulator. > > I believe Toad is out of the Atari business now...the last time I checked > out their website, all of the Atari stuff had been removed. I've not been > up to their store in a number of years though. The 'closet' that housed > the 8-bit stuff was always pretty interesting to rummage through. I never > used Gemulator, which does sound correct for the name, but I did use the > 8-bit emulator they sold. True, Toad pulled out a few years ago. GEMulator is now free and does not need any particular hardware. I think the author concentrates on Mac emulation nowadays. > Does Best Electronics still sell ST stuff? They were a bit pricey the > last time I looked, but they carried quite a bit. At the time when I had > only FIDO access they were the only place I could find a replacement ST/STE > keyboard for my MEGA. Best are indeed still in the business. Err, isn't there some US shop called "Homa", too? Of course, there's the shady System Solutions of the UK, as well as Keychange Music. And a range of retailers in Germany, of course. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Dec 21 11:52:56 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: from Aaron Nabil at "Dec 21, 0 09:10:12 am" Message-ID: <200012211752.JAA13210@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > If I can offer advise, use the proxy system. Enter the amount maximum > amount you are willing to pay. You have absolutely, irrevocably defused > ANY danger of sniping. As a case in point, I was bidding last night on another Apple Network Server (if you can't find parts for a computer, the second best thing is to just buy another one). I got it up to near $600 before exceeding my "limit". Whoever has the high bid, and still does, just wants the unit more than me. I suspect he has at least a grand down. No sniper will shift him. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I like being single. I'm always there when I need me. -- Art Leo ----------- From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 21 10:47:28 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Ernest wrote: > Oh, I know. Getting mugged isn't personal either, it's just a means to an > end. Ernest, how can this be compared to a mugging? Have you ever been mugged? I haven't, but I'm sure the experience is much worse. > I'm not an idealist about this stuff. I know that most people are basically > self centered and self interested. The part that bothers me is that, since > sneakiness and this sort of borderline deceit doesn't come naturally to me, > I was caught with my mouth open when the pie hit my face -so to speak, and I > felt stupid for not knowing better, for not assuming that people will always > find a way to beat the system at everyone elses expense. I was left feeling > foolish and gullable when I should have known better -that's what really > annoys me. More Prozac, please. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Thu Dec 21 11:57:19 2000 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! In-Reply-To: from "LFessen106@aol.com" at "Dec 21, 2000 12:27:59 pm" Message-ID: <20001221175724Z434551-2368+199@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > Can anyone on the list help me out with my SGI's? > I made a trade a trade for 2 Personal Iris 4D/35's. Cool lookin' computers, > however, I have a few problems..... > Neither one has a KB, Mouse or Monitor, and although a decent SVGA works > fine, I can't for the life of me find the KB/Mouse for these anywhere (they > have the ps2 style connector, but are *not* ps2 compatable). > After hooking them up to a Dumb Terminal I find that they both work (at least > up to the prom) and 1 actually will boot into Irix 4.0.2... The other has no > detectable OS. > The one that *does* boot to Irix has a root password that I don't have (of > course). As you have discovered, the monitor is easy. The keyboard and mouse are the hard parts. They are an SGI design, so you need to get an SGI keyboard. You can occassionally find them on eBay or some of the resellers have them as well. You are probably looking at $30 at the minimum. Note, CDC used to resell SGI workstations rebadged as CDC machines, so there are some CDC keyboards that will work as well. The CDC part number is 9500802, just in case you come across one. > > Is there any way to gain root access on that machine other than removing the > drive and mounting it on another box to change the passwd / crack it? > After I do actually get the one box running can I somehow transfer the OS > from one to the other? I read somewhere there was a prom command to > duplicate hard drives??? > Is there someone on the list willing to part with an old copy of Irix? These > machines will only run up to 5.0.3 I think.. Anyone have a spare KB/Mouse > for these machines? I can run them (when I get them working) from a Dumb > Terminal, but would rather experience the famous SGI GUI. > Any other hints / tips / suggestions would be greatly appreciated! > Since you can boot at least one of them, I assume you can get to the prom monitor. In the prom monitor look to see what is on partition 8 (I think that's the right number) of you main disk. On most machines the default path is set to that partition. Do an ls of that directory and see what you have there. If there is a miniroot there (which is not always the case) you can boot it and edit the password file. Most of the systems I've seen haven't been set up this way, so this fix may not be possible. The other solution is to boot a miniroot off of disk or CD and edit the password file. What external media do you have? CD or tape? I don't think you can do a remote copy from anoher machine, but you can do remote boots and installs. On your machine without an OS, the disk as probably been wiped and you will need to relabel and format it. I think the fx program is the correct one, there is a standalone version which is usually on partition 8 of the main disk (but again, not always, depends upon who set the system up). -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 21 10:51:36 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001221082405.0267c350@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: > One man's snipe bid is another man's bid. How do you determine > a sensible period between "going once" and "going twice"? In a > real-world auction where they're in a hurry to move to the > next item, N seems to be between zero and two seconds. In the newsgroups, N is between 1 and 2 days. Sure it draws it out, but this is the Internet. We can get away with that. > In your system, would I not be able to join the bidding > between "going once" and "going twice"? Why not? Because > I'm morally flawed for finding the auction at the last minute? > Maybe the only reason I saw the auction was because it was at > the top of the search results because it had five minutes to go. I think the way some newsgroup auctions work, the sellers only allow previous bidders to participate in the "going" phase. But I've also seen the bidding stay open to all until it's "gone". Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Thu Dec 21 10:57:28 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <002001c06b64$20c72e80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I'm often tempted to "jump" Sellam's arguments just because HE's the one who > made them, but you have to allow for the fact that "where you sit determines > what you see." He's in a different situation than most of us, and in fact > I'm in a different situation than most of us as well. He wants to complete > a really broad selection of classic computers and computer-related > hardware/software. Some parts of what he wants are pretty rare, and for his > purposes, he really MUST have them. Most of the rest of us are pretty > narrow in our respective specialties. He's not. > > Now I can see how it p*sses him off when he sees THE one item he's needing > to make a section of his collection work a certain way go for about $2k more > than he's prepared to pay, particularly when he didn't buy it for $50 > because he thought that was a mite high. Dick, please don't ever speak for me again. You have a great enough problem trying to articulate your own point of view, the last thing we need is for you to be speaking for others (especially when you are talking out of your ass, as you seem to regularly do). Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Thu Dec 21 12:08:35 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: obsoletecomputermuseum.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00122112083501.03972@Billbob_Linux> I noticed that the Obsolete Computer Helpine at http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org broke and was taken down a couple of weeks ago, but now the whole server is unresponsive. No website anymore. Anyone know what's up with this? -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | .:Bill Layer:. | Viking Electronics,Inc. 1531 Industrial St | | .:Sales Technician:. | Hudson, WI 54016 USA + 715.386.8861 x210 | | b.layer@vikingelectronics.com | http://www.vikingelectronics.com | ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Telecom Solutions for the 21st Century" + Powered by Slackware Linux 7.1.0 From optimus at canit.se Thu Dec 21 12:12:28 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On 21 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: [klipp] > > really annoying, and and example of very bad behaviour. Perhaps the > > reason why anarchy doesn't work very well. > > Whine. Oh, sod off. I'm very sorry if you can't rip someone off and make them happy at the same time, but that's life, too. Whine. =P From optimus at canit.se Thu Dec 21 12:14:28 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A4173EF.1AADA2BB@rain.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Dec 2000, Marvin wrote: > Iggy Drougge wrote: > > > On Ebay, the > > auctions do instead go on for weeks, and jumping in at the very end of this > > time frame is really quite dishonest. Some play with their cards on the table, > > whereas the snipers literally rip the thing out of your hands. It's really > > annoying, and and example of very bad behaviour. > > Annoying? Perhaps, but bad behavior? No way. Re: playing with their cards on > the table; I don't really understand what you are saying here. If the > bidders bid their maximum bid at any time during the bidding, whether they > were sniped or not is irrelevant. Saying that early bidders should have > priority over those that bid at the last minute (and I don't *think* you are > saying that) would also be wrong. > > The whole sniping issue is not about bidding late in the game, but rather > one of the perceived worth of an item. Snipers and non-snipers are both > trying to get something at the lowest price and the issue of sniping or not > sniping is just smoke and mirrors. Bidding what someone thinks an item is > worth has no relationship to the time the bid was submitted. Anyone could increment their bid by a dollar. Doing that by the last minute is dishonest. Certainly, it's playing by the rules, but that's because the rules are a mess. From ncherry at home.net Thu Dec 21 12:37:34 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: Message-ID: <3A424DEE.BD0D9538@home.net> Aaron Nabil wrote: > As I'm sure other people will or have pointed out, ebay is not the same > format as a "real life auction". Snipers are playing by Ebay's rules and > according to the auction format, and although annoying, it's certainly not > "bad behavior". > > Sniping only works as long as people do not use the proxy system to bid up > to the maximum they are willing to pay. If everyone used the proxy system > and entered the maximum they were willing to pay, sniping would instantly > stop being useful. > > If I can offer advise, use the proxy system. Enter the amount maximum > amount you are willing to pay. You have absolutely, irrevocably defused > ANY danger of sniping. Aaron is correct if you set your max via the proxy then only a snipe greater than your max will beat you. If your complaint is that you would have bid more if the sniper bid earlier then bid more with the proxy. If your complaint is that if you bid early the price goes nuts, well that's why I switched to a snipe. The reason I switched over to sniping is that I've watched as items I've researched get bid up like mad if I had bid early (and the bidding went beyond reason). So if you bid early most likely you lose the bidding. Ignore the item until the end and you're more likely to get it and get it at a reasonable price. I learned this while finding the same seller selling several of the same items but he posted them with a day gap between them. On the first item I bid with proxy and got out bid very quickly (I wouldn't go above what I thought was a reasonable price). It sold for $15 above the ~$30 I had researched, the second item I ignored and it didn't sell. The third item I sniped and got it for ~$28. The seller reposted a few days later the second item, it was bid on early and it sold for ~$60 ($30 more than my research). Now this isn't a scientific study was brought about by my initial (learning curve) observations. Oh one more thing watch out for shipping, I've seen totally unreasonable shipping costs. I always check shipping as some sellers use it as a way of making extra money. I always figure this into my bids so since I'm on the east coast I tend ot lose a lot of west cost auctions. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 21 12:48:16 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: RE: Snipe S/W? (Iggy Drougge) References: <14912.23870.721305.295849@phaduka.neurotica.com> <1057.390T1800T1295061optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <14914.20592.884537.15553@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 21, Iggy Drougge wrote: > But do the end justify the means? I have also found it an unpleasurable > experience to lose something which I have put a bid on in some cases several > weeks ago, only to be outbid at the very last minute, possibly when I'm at > school or fast asleep. In a real-life auction, there are the three rounds in > which you may increase your bid, giving everyone a fair chance. On Ebay, the > auctions do instead go on for weeks, and jumping in at the very end of this > time frame is really quite dishonest. Some play with their cards on the table, > whereas the snipers literally rip the thing out of your hands. It's really > annoying, and and example of very bad behaviour. Perhaps the reason why > anarchy doesn't work very well. While I do agree, and I admit that this is no excuse, I must point out that a *lot* of people snipe. It boils down to this...if you want a particular item, either snipe...or be sniped. People need to stop comparing eBay to a "regular" or "real life" (what exactly is "real life"?) auction. While eBay calls itself an "auction", it is very different from what is traditionally known as an auction. That's just the way it is. If you think this is a good thing, so be it. If you think it ISN'T a good thing...well, don't use it! As long as eBay has many happy buyers and many happy sellers (I happen to be both!) it will do fine...and anything that has happy followers will always have a group of people with sour grapes who do nothing but complain about things. -Dave McGuire From donm at cts.com Thu Dec 21 12:58:22 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Painting a VT-100 ? In-Reply-To: <20001221091647.F11959@loisto.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Jarkko Hermanni Teppo wrote: > On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 03:54:36PM +0200, Jarkko Hermanni Teppo wrote: > > I also found a working Osborne 1 without > > boot disks, so now I'm in search of those + kermit as well. > > > > Thanks to all who replied ! I'm in constant amazement of how this list > comes through when you need help, probably the wisest thing (internetwise) > I've done was joining this list:) > > Anyway, the Osborne has the following ports (from left to right): > Modem, 9-pin D male > RS-232, DB25 female > IEEE-488 card edge connector > Keyboard via a coiled cable > Brightness and contrast knobs > EXT video with a "Do not remove while power is on"-dongle > Reset button > Battery, 9-ping D male > RCA phono jack with no markings, I presume this is for video The RCA jack suggests that it is equipped for 80 column display. This normally indicates double-density disks also. Good catch! - don > Now I need to dig up my 5.25" drives and try to write the disks. > After I'm finished with setting the Osborne up I'll try to tackle > with an ADM-3A with Retrographics RG-512 graphics expansion. > > -- > jht > From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 21 12:58:42 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: Re: Snipe S/W? (Doug Salot) References: Message-ID: <14914.21218.198924.181760@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 20, Doug Salot wrote: > Personally, I find sniping inconvenient because to do it well requires > third-party software -- it should be built into the system. But it's just No it doesn't...all you need is a web browser. NOBODY'S connectivity is so bad that you can't get a URL out on a TCP connection in less than a few seconds... -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 21 13:02:32 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: RE: Snipe S/W? (Ernest) References: Message-ID: <14914.21448.584063.745274@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 21, Ernest wrote: > Oh, I know. Getting mugged isn't personal either, it's just a means to an > end. Oh good grief. > ...and like every fantasy, most of learn at a young age that there will > always be someone to ruin it for us. That's why snipping is self > perpetuating -if you know that there's going to be a jerk at the end no > matter what you do, the jerk might as well be you. Thus, the snipping > continues. Oh good grief, again. Let me guess...do you actually BELIEVE that "it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game"?? The world is an unfair place. Either deal with it, or go see a shrink. It's really as simple as that. I'm not going to give up my favorite shopping venue because some idealistic fool wants to turn it into some form of K-12 entertainment. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 21 13:08:54 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: RE: Snipe S/W? (Aaron Nabil) References: <1057.390T1800T1295061optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <14914.21830.144815.928900@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 21, Aaron Nabil wrote: > If I can offer advise, use the proxy system. Enter the amount maximum > amount you are willing to pay. You have absolutely, irrevocably defused > ANY danger of sniping. If the item is commonly available through other sources, sure, I agree. But lots of stuff on eBay isn't. Rare is the "one of a kind" item, but if I see something that I've been looking for for years on eBay, my definition of "maximum" is a very subjective thing...and may have nothing to do with the "street value" of the item...it has more to do with how badly I want it, and how much trouble I'd have to go through to get it elsewhere. A good example of this is classic computers. Despite living in an area where there's either a three-letter agency or a DRMO warehouse on every street corner, PDP stuff (for example) is VERY difficult to find where I live. I'd pay several hundred bucks for a pdp11/34a in a heartbeat on eBay. Why? Because I've been looking for one for a LONG time and only recently got one locally by pure luck and the sharp eye of a good friend. You guys who are swimming in them may think I'm nuts...but you HAVE them. Get it? In other words, two points...One, sniping is an essential technique for non-mainstream items (in any category) on eBay, if your goal is to get the item. Two, the definition of "non-mainstream" frequently differs from person to person. -Dave McGuire From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Dec 21 11:12:17 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A424DEE.BD0D9538@home.net> References: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001221111035.0196d7a0@208.226.86.10> Aaron hit it right on the head. If you bid your max you cannot be sniped. Period. Neil added the other bit, If you want to get an item for less than your max, you must snipe. Period. Can we move on now? --Chuck From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 21 12:58:41 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The focus on sniping is missing a basic point, most people shop eBay "when they are ready to buy" and don't even look at auctions more than a few hours away. This is why the buy it now is so effective, as it puts your item into play immediately. When I snipe I'm not taking your candy, it was never yours. The reason I snipe is because if I bid $37.50 two days early, or even bid, some other bidder then has two days to shop the product and decide to bid $38, or even decide the item is "really" worth $100. Making your first bid in the last moments of the auction gets you a lower price. You risk losing the auction vs a lower price, and thats it period. The closer to the end, the fewer "rounds" of bidding. Many people bid what they "want" to pay, and thats usually an early bid fantasy, or wish bid. I look at that bid, then maybe research the product some more, think about what the item is "worth" to me, or what it will cost from another source, then either snipe, or just make my maximum bid. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 21 13:19:35 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: References: <1057.390T1800T1295061optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: >If I can offer advise, use the proxy system. Enter the amount maximum >amount you are willing to pay. You have absolutely, irrevocably defused >ANY danger of sniping. Or of getting a good price. Lets say I am selling in the same items in three auctions over the period of a couple hours. You place your maximum bid on the first one (its "worth" $75, you bid $51.92 and take the first bid spot of $9.95), and towards the end of the auction somebody comes along wanting one of the items. Most likely they "test" your bid (say $25), maybe via a last second snipe, and guess what you win (but your bid is now $26) and they move on to the next item I have for auction and "test" that bid. These bargain hunters effectively remove all the bargains. Or, maybe the person wants it, and the amount isn't that much and they are "curious" about how much you bid, so they under bid, ie instead of bidding whole amounts plus some factor, they bid whole amount less some factor, ie $50 less $2.03, and your bid becomes $48.27. If they bid $54.37 and win, they know if its done early enough there is a fair chance you will come back and save them. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 21 13:26:28 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! In-Reply-To: <20001221175724Z434551-2368+199@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> References: from "LFessen106@aol.com" at "Dec 21, 2000 12:27:59 pm" Message-ID: >As you have discovered, the monitor is easy. The keyboard and mouse >are the hard parts. They are an SGI design, so you need to get an >SGI keyboard. You can occassionally find them on eBay or some >of the resellers have them as well. You are probably looking at >$30 at the minimum. Hmmm, I know I have a SGI keyboard, but didn't they make a couple flavors that are different. I really need to get my stuff in a list. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 21 13:21:14 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Box of TK50 and QD6150/6250 tapes!!>PLEASE RESPOND Message-ID: > Do you still have the TK50s for sale? Ron Thompson Calibration / >Integration Specialist EFW, Inc. 4700 Marine Creek Pkwy. Fort Worth, TX >76179 rthompson@efw.com I don't think you are talking to me, but I most likely do have some tapes of at least the latter flavor (6150/6250). From sean at techcare.com Thu Dec 21 13:50:07 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! References: Message-ID: <05e801c06b87$38972380$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 12:27 PM Subject: Old SGI's?! > Can anyone on the list help me out with my SGI's? > I made a trade a trade for 2 Personal Iris 4D/35's. Cool lookin' computers, > however, I have a few problems..... > Neither one has a KB, Mouse or Monitor, and although a decent SVGA works > fine, I can't for the life of me find the KB/Mouse for these anywhere (they > have the ps2 style connector, but are *not* ps2 compatable). > After hooking them up to a Dumb Terminal I find that they both work (at least > up to the prom) and 1 actually will boot into Irix 4.0.2... The other has no > detectable OS. > The one that *does* boot to Irix has a root password that I don't have (of > course). > > Is there any way to gain root access on that machine other than removing the > drive and mounting it on another box to change the passwd / crack it? > After I do actually get the one box running can I somehow transfer the OS > from one to the other? I read somewhere there was a prom command to > duplicate hard drives??? > Is there someone on the list willing to part with an old copy of Irix? These > machines will only run up to 5.0.3 I think.. Anyone have a spare KB/Mouse > for these machines? I can run them (when I get them working) from a Dumb > Terminal, but would rather experience the famous SGI GUI. > Any other hints / tips / suggestions would be greatly appreciated! > > -Linc F. > Nice find! They're a little slow for running IRIX 5.3 (it will run, though, with performance variable depending on how much RAM you have), but they will run IRIX 4.X really nicely. If you're looking for parts for them (such as keyboards and mice), you can purchase them from Reputable Systems (http://www.reputable.com) at an extremely reasonable price. I've purchased parts from them before (for my Indigo) and they're great to work with! Probably the best resource for information regarding older SGIs, especially Personal IRIS and Professional Series systems is probably This Old SGI, which is at http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Pines/2258/4dfaq.html Both your questions (gaining root access via single user mode, and duplicating a hard disk drive from the PROM) will be answered there. --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 21 14:00:23 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: RE: Snipe S/W? (Mike Ford) References: Message-ID: <14914.24919.435564.138983@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 21, Mike Ford wrote: > When I snipe I'm not taking your candy, it was never yours. The reason I Amen! Very well said. -Dave McGuire From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Thu Dec 21 14:05:01 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <14914.21830.144815.928900@phaduka.neurotica.com> from Dave McGuire at "Dec 21, 2000 02:08:54 pm" Message-ID: <200012212005.MAA26423@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > On December 21, Aaron Nabil wrote: > > If I can offer advise, use the proxy system. Enter the amount maximum > > amount you are willing to pay. You have absolutely, irrevocably defused > > ANY danger of sniping. > > If the item is commonly available through other sources, sure, I > agree. [...] my definition of "maximum" is a very subjective thing... > and may have nothing to do with the "street value" of the item. > [...] > > . I'd pay several hundred bucks for a pdp11/34a in a > heartbeat on eBay. Why? Because I've been looking for one for a LONG > time [...] I don't think this invalidates the point Aaron made. In fact it validates it. Enter several hundred bucks for your maximum and you won't have to snipe. If it goes above that, well, it was more than you were willing to pay. What's the problem? If you are disappointed you didn't get it, then you apparently didn't have your maximum set high enough. > In other words, two points...One, sniping is an essential technique for > non-mainstream items (in any category) on eBay, if your goal is to get > the item. That's usually not the goal of sniping. The goal of sniping is to get the item for less that you think others would be willing to pay. Then again if they really had entered their maximum, the technique wouldn't work. The problem is that most people really don't think through what their maximum is and are willing to change their "maximum" several times over the course of the week. I usually bid my maximum right away. I'm never disappointed because someone else was willing to pay more, because I am unwilling to pay more. Sniping really doesn't buy you anything but the satisfaction of knowing you've paid more than you were originally willing to. Eric From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Dec 21 14:05:34 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.20001220232930.008f45d0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20001221150534.008f30d0@earthlink.net> At 06:49 PM 12/21/00 +0100, you wrote: >True, Toad pulled out a few years ago. What ever became of Toad's inventory of stuff when they dropped it? Did they continue selling it until it was gone or did they somehow get rid of it all in a fairly small length of time? I remember a buddy of mine going in there during one of our trips to the store and buying a couple of hundred dollars worth of Lynx cartridges. They had a pretty decent selection onhand. I generally got my TOS upgrades from them. >Best are indeed still in the business. Err, isn't there some US shop >called "Homa", too? Of course, there's the shady System Solutions of the >UK, as well as Keychange Music. And a range of retailers in Germany, of >course. I remember hearing about System Solutions but the other's don't ring a bell. I guess since Toad wasn't more than 1-1/2 hours drive from where we lived and my buddy and I made frequent road trips up to the store, there wasn't much need to look much further for Atari stuff. The copule of times I did, I generally went with Best. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Power Computing PowerCurve, 288mhz G3, Mac OS 9 http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 Home Of The TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 14:08:15 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:49 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! Message-ID: Hmm, I dunno about reputable, I called them to try and sell them this stupid origin 200 I have an the guy was a total ass.. he asked me if the stupid thing was stolen.. what a moron _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Dec 21 14:11:54 2000 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <200012212005.MAA26423@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu>; from korpela@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu on Thu, Dec 21, 2000 at 12:05:01PM -0800 References: <14914.21830.144815.928900@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200012212005.MAA26423@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <20001221151154.B27961@alcor.concordia.ca> On Thu, Dec 21, 2000 at 12:05:01PM -0800, Eric J. Korpela (korpela@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu) wrote: > > On December 21, Aaron Nabil wrote: > > > If I can offer advise, use the proxy system. Enter the amount maximum > > > amount you are willing to pay. You have absolutely, irrevocably defused > > > ANY danger of sniping. > > > > If the item is commonly available through other sources, sure, I > > agree. [...] my definition of "maximum" is a very subjective thing... > > and may have nothing to do with the "street value" of the item. > > [...] > > > > . I'd pay several hundred bucks for a pdp11/34a in a > > heartbeat on eBay. Why? Because I've been looking for one for a LONG > > time [...] > > I don't think this invalidates the point Aaron made. In fact it validates > it. Enter several hundred bucks for your maximum and you won't have to > snipe. If it goes above that, well, it was more than you were willing to > pay. What's the problem? >From what I see, the problem is in finding a foolproof way in which to determine that maximum. If I think that the market value of something is, say $100, and I really want it, I might bid $200. If I come back to look at the auction and see that it's $300, I might re-evaluate my initial valuation based on that. It's just another example of incomplete information, which becomes a problem when the incompleteness is imbalanced between parties. To fix eBay would be to find something that doesn't lead to these imbalances (which lead to market distortion in one direction or another, since the price-setters will be behaving irrationally). -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Thu Dec 21 14:13:17 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00122114131702.03972@Billbob_Linux> I think that it's important to remember something: it's not the last bid that wins an auction, it's the *highest* bid. And if someone is willing to pay more than yourself, how do you figure that they stole your item? -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | .:Bill Layer:. | Viking Electronics,Inc. 1531 Industrial St | | .:Sales Technician:. | Hudson, WI 54016 USA + 715.386.8861 x210 | | b.layer@vikingelectronics.com | http://www.vikingelectronics.com | ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Telecom Solutions for the 21st Century" + Powered by Slackware Linux 7.1.0 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 21 15:22:24 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Tektronix 8002 uProcessor Lab Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001221162224.3b3760a8@mailhost.intellistar.net> Does anyone have one of these or is anyone familar with them? I just picked one up last week. I dug through my odds and ends and found a couple of manuals for it and several boxs of TekDOS operating system disks with the Z-80 assembler and software. I scanned a picture of the system from one of the manuals at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/tek/tek8002.jpg". The two pieces that I have are shown at the top right. Joe From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 21 14:17:39 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: Re: Snipe S/W? (Eric J. Korpela) References: <14914.21830.144815.928900@phaduka.neurotica.com> <200012212005.MAA26423@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> Message-ID: <14914.25955.996349.76331@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 21, Eric J. Korpela wrote: > > . I'd pay several hundred bucks for a pdp11/34a in a > > heartbeat on eBay. Why? Because I've been looking for one for a LONG > > time [...] > > I don't think this invalidates the point Aaron made. In fact it validates > it. Enter several hundred bucks for your maximum and you won't have to > snipe. If it goes above that, well, it was more than you were willing to > pay. What's the problem? If you are disappointed you didn't get it, then > you apparently didn't have your maximum set high enough. You do have a point there, I must admit. > That's usually not the goal of sniping. The goal of sniping is to get the > item for less that you think others would be willing to pay. Then again > if they really had entered their maximum, the technique wouldn't work. The > problem is that most people really don't think through what their maximum is > and are willing to change their "maximum" several times over the course of > the week. This is a VERY good point. If one is doing it for business, say, buying and selling Ciscos, it's easy to attach a dollar figure to an item. But when I do a search for "pdp* -plasma", it's sometimes difficult to figure out how much money something is worth to me. Often it even varies with my mood! > I usually bid my maximum right away. I'm never disappointed because someone > else was willing to pay more, because I am unwilling to pay more. Sniping > really doesn't buy you anything but the satisfaction of knowing you've paid > more than you were originally willing to. I assume you mean "less"? -Dave McGuire From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Dec 21 14:26:51 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <20001221151154.B27961@alcor.concordia.ca> from "Rich Lafferty" at Dec 21, 2000 03:11:54 PM Message-ID: <200012212026.NAA03444@calico.litterbox.com> > To fix eBay would be to find something that doesn't lead to these > imbalances (which lead to market distortion in one direction or > another, since the price-setters will be behaving irrationally). > > -Rich Yet another example of knowledge equalling power. Look, if you don't know what something is worth AND have a good idea what the maximum you're willing to pay for it AND have a willingness to be happy anyway if someone bids more than that, You shouldn't bid on e-bay. Auctions work because people believe they can get a bargain for just one more bid, and they get caught up in it and bid past what the thing is worth. If you can't play auction hardball (see the terms above) then you will be fleeced or not get what you want at an auction. Same thing goes for art auctions at science fiction conventions, and surplus auctions, all of which I've gone to, spent money at, and enjoyed. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Thu Dec 21 14:48:53 2000 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Inquiry: Frieden 132 Electronic Calculator Message-ID: Perhaps a quickie for the classic 'calc types amongst us: Just acquired a Frieden 132 Electronic Calculator, and while it appears to function, the screen display is somewhat distorted. It appears to be overscanning and a bit to the dim side. So, any common POF on this one? -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 Note: the 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. The original 'Garage' site (URL above) is still out there and is currently being updated. From LFessen106 at aol.com Thu Dec 21 15:09:07 2000 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! Message-ID: <6e.630cf01.2773cb74@aol.com> << Hmm, I dunno about reputable, I called them to try and sell them this stupid origin 200 I have an the guy was a total ass.. he asked me if the stupid thing was stolen.. what a moron >> I looked at their "reasonable" prices.. *Not*. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Dec 21 13:35:06 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Comments? VAX pages Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001221133349.028b6e08@208.226.86.129> I'm trying to put together some pages on the VAX and have put them up under my computers section . One of the pages is a pricing guide for VAXen :-) Now that should start an interesting discussion :-) --Chuck From vcf at siconic.com Thu Dec 21 14:28:48 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: IBM Series/1 possibly available in MN Message-ID: If anyone in the Minnetonka, Minnesota area is interested in the possibility of an IBM Series/1 mainframe, please contact me privately. I have a lead for you. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Dec 21 15:51:41 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: IBM Series/1 possibly available in MN In-Reply-To: "from Vintage Computer Festival at Dec 21, 2000 12:28:48 pm" Message-ID: <200012212151.PAA28237@caesar.cs.umn.edu> and you could also pickup several huge boxes of system/1 manuals that are too big to ship from me (before i'm forced to toss them as the previous pwner had). -Lawrence LeMay > > If anyone in the Minnetonka, Minnesota area is interested in the > possibility of an IBM Series/1 mainframe, please contact me privately. I > have a lead for you. > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > From sean at techcare.com Thu Dec 21 16:00:06 2000 From: sean at techcare.com (Sean Caron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! References: <6e.630cf01.2773cb74@aol.com> Message-ID: <068701c06b99$614a4700$0c00000a@techcare.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 4:09 PM Subject: Re: Old SGI's?! > << Hmm, I dunno about reputable, I called them to try and sell them this > stupid > origin 200 I have an the guy was a total ass.. he asked me if the stupid > thing was stolen.. what a moron > >> > > I looked at their "reasonable" prices.. *Not*. > > > I guess it's all relative. Granted, SGI systems are workstations, and if you're looking to purchase stuff from a reseller, it's going to be rather expensive any way you go, because they're generally geared to the sort of clientele that will purchase and pay larger amounts of money for workstations and workstation parts. It's hard to keep this in mind sometimes when we are so used to getting equipment for free or extremely cheaply, but sometimes there's that part that we just really don't have much choice for. I didn't mean to point anyone in the "wrong" direction. I was just suggesting them as they certainly have the parts, and I personally have had nothing but positive experiences with them in the past. --Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) | http://www.diablonet.net From rivie at teraglobal.com Thu Dec 21 16:05:14 2000 From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Comments? VAX pages In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001221133349.028b6e08@208.226.86.129> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001221133349.028b6e08@208.226.86.129> Message-ID: >I'm trying to put together some pages on the VAX and have put them >up under my computers section >. One of the pages is a >pricing guide for VAXen :-) Now that should start an interesting >discussion :-) I don't have much to say about your VAX pages, but the PDP-5 stuff caught my eye. I foolishly allowed a friend to dismantle one many years ago; all I got out of the deal was the front panel. Mine doesn't have those rectangular slots(?) over on the left side and one of the switches is different (it's got a really long handle on it); I forget which switch. It's my understanding that the modules the PDP-5 are built out of are called System Modules. They predate the flip-chip modules. -- Roger Ivie rivie@teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 21 16:13:46 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! In-Reply-To: Mark Green "Re: Old SGI's?!" (Dec 21, 10:57) References: <20001221175724Z434551-2368+199@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <10012212213.ZM15595@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 21, 10:57, Mark Green wrote: > On Dec 21, 12:27, LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > > Neither one has a KB, Mouse or Monitor, and although a decent SVGA works > > fine, I can't for the life of me find the KB/Mouse for these anywhere (they > > have the ps2 style connector, but are *not* ps2 compatable). Mark has answered that. All I will add is that (apart from the PS/2 keytboards and mice used on Indigo^2, Indy, O2, and later) keyboards for different 4D machines and original Indigos differ only in the plug fitted. You could try Greg Douglas at www.reputable.com or Doug Mashek (look in the comp.sys.sgi.* newsgroups; you'll find them). > > from one to the other? I read somewhere there was a prom command to > > duplicate hard drives??? Not exactly. If the drives have *exactly the same* geometry (you can check this by using the standalone fx command that may be included in partition 8) then you can use cp from the prom to copy the entire disk. Otherwise, format (only if necessary!), label, and partition the drive (using fx, either from the prom or IRIX) then do a mkfs on it, and finally you can use tar to copy one filesystem to another. IRIX tar -- at least in 5.3 and possibly in 4.0.x -- is smart enough to "do the right thing" for entries in /dev. > > Is there someone on the list willing to part with an old copy of Irix? These > > machines will only run up to 5.0.3 I think. Up to 5.3; I don't think there is a 5.0.3. 5.3 came on CDs, so start looking for a SCSI CD-ROM that can be fixed in hardware to do 512-byte blocks. Older Toshibas are excellent for this. Some Apple, Sun and DEC CD-ROM drives may work too -- there's a document at ftp://viz.tamu.edu/pub/sgi about this (and lots more). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 21 16:14:38 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Inquiry: Frieden 132 Electronic Calculator In-Reply-To: from "James Willing" at Dec 21, 0 12:48:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 867 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001221/e2f540e3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 21 16:18:37 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Tektronix 8002 uProcessor Lab In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001221162224.3b3760a8@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 21, 0 04:22:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 857 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001221/f87e31d1/attachment.ksh From ss at allegro.com Thu Dec 21 16:31:35 2000 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: New musuem Item In-Reply-To: <020401c06af6$02aa7b00$8c711fd1@default> Message-ID: <3A421447.13138.4963990@localhost> Re: Subject: New musuem Item > Today I picked up a HP 3000 980/100 at auction for $45. Still have not I almost missed this, since you didn't mention the "3000 980/100" in the subject line! > unloaded it yet need a way to get it off the van, they loaded it with a > forklift. I just have the cpu no monitor or keyboard. Anyone have > spec's on this unit. It's big. HP's first two MPE/iX PA-RISC systems were the HP 3000/950 and HP 3000/930 (HP-UX equivalents: HP 9000/850, HP 9000/840, IIRC). I can't recall the HP-UX model number equivalent of the 980...marketing started playing games making identical hardware have model that didn't match in their bottom 2 digits :( PA-RISC 1.0 (aka PA7000) CPU: 32 MHz? (The 960 was about 27.5 MHZ, and the 980 was the successor model) Max memory: 512 MB IO: CIO ... this means it won't run MPE/iX 6.5 or later. MPE/iX 6.0 is the last release it will run. I/O devices: HPIB SCSI (possibly...not all 980s had SCSI) If you have a SCSI controller, you *might* be able to boot from a SCSI disk... IIRC, that capability required a firmware upgrade. So, some systems had a SCSI controller, but booted from an HPIB boot disk. Did I mention that it's *big*? :) Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 21 17:02:47 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! In-Reply-To: Re: Old SGI's?! (Sean Caron) References: <6e.630cf01.2773cb74@aol.com> <068701c06b99$614a4700$0c00000a@techcare.com> Message-ID: <14914.35863.58876.705162@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 21, Sean Caron wrote: > > I looked at their "reasonable" prices.. *Not*. > > I guess it's all relative. Granted, SGI systems are workstations, and if > you're > looking to purchase stuff from a reseller, it's going to be rather expensive > any way you go, because they're generally geared to the sort of clientele > that will purchase and pay larger amounts of money for workstations and > workstation parts. It's hard to keep this in mind sometimes when we are > so used to getting equipment for free or extremely cheaply, but sometimes > there's that part that we just really don't have much choice for. > > I didn't mean to point anyone in the "wrong" direction. I was just > suggesting > them as they certainly have the parts, and I personally have had nothing but > positive experiences with them in the past. I second this voice of support for Greg at reputable.com. I've had nothing but positive experiences with him as well, and his prices *are* reasonable...if you keep in mind the fact that he is a RESELLER, not a surplus organization or a college equipment dump, and he deals with lots of large corporations. It's like dealing with Black Box. You'll never get the best price from them...but when you're in a pinch, what you need will always be on your doorstep before you wake up the next morning. -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 21 17:04:37 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Tektronix 8002 uProcessor Lab In-Reply-To: Re: Tektronix 8002 uProcessor Lab (Tony Duell) References: <3.0.1.16.20001221162224.3b3760a8@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <14914.35973.12781.236708@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 21, Tony Duell wrote: > > Does anyone have one of these or is anyone familar with them? I just > > I have something similar. > > The box with the floppy drive(s) (or maybe a Micropolis 1200 hard disk in > place of one of the floppies) is essentially a PDP11. There's a real DEC > CPU card (normally an PDP11/03, sometimes an 11/23) CPU card in there, > along with special Tektronix cards containing RAM, boot ROMs, disk > controller, serial ports, etc. The backplane has one normal DEC Q-bus > slot for the CPU and some Tektronix slots for the other cards. What?? REALLY? Damn, I passed up one at a hamfest this past summer. I really regret it now. That sounds like a really neat system. I had no idea Tek embedded DEC processors in their development systems. -Dave McGuire From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 21 17:24:20 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Tektronix 8002 uProcessor Lab In-Reply-To: <14914.35973.12781.236708@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Dec 21, 0 06:04:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 956 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001221/05712c74/attachment.ksh From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 21 17:58:37 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! Message-ID: I just would like to say that I'm not saying that Reputable is necessarily a bad place, only that my experience with them did not exactly make me happy. I just don't appreciate people implying that I might have stolen a computer, that's all... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 21 18:34:50 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: First computer singing In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail "Re: First computer singing" (Dec 19, 23:18) References: Message-ID: <10012220034.ZM19153@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 19, 23:18, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Tue, 19 Dec 2000, John Foust wrote: > > > Some .ram files merely reference an .rm file via http://, > > such as a .ram that contains: > > > > http://streams2.vortex.com/rmf/daisy.rm > > > > which would allow you to just enter that URL directly, > > or save-as, and then you'd have the .rm file. > > Sheer genius. But it didn't work :( I used the audio hardware on one of my SGI machines to snarf the stream as it played and uploaded it to http://www.dunnington.u-net.com/temp/daisy.wav for you (about 3MB). I was intrigued by the recording, and I knew I'd seen a reference somewhere else, so I spent a while hunting for more information. Interestingly, the first reference I found was in the classiccmp archives, from two years ago! But the following may be of interest: http://www.spectrum.ieee.org/INST/mar98/histquiz.html (a little background) http://neil.franklin.ch/Usenet/alt.folklore.computers/20001109_Musical_mainframe (several recent informative Usenet posts) http://korova.com/kmr98/kmr8002.htm (near the bottom, explains that "Daisy" was useful because it contains all the notes in an octave) http://www.mindspring.com/~dmaxey/ssshp/ss_btl1.htm (relevant published papers and archive tapes at BTL, including the one from which "Daisy" is taken) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From elmo at mminternet.com Thu Dec 21 19:07:15 2000 From: elmo at mminternet.com (Eliot Moore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: More Free Stuff Message-ID: <3A42A943.1ECB6F47@mminternet.com> I have at least 50 pounds of 486/ISA stuff, including a DX4/120, an AMD 586/133, four motherboards, a chassis, about 20 1M memory modules, sound cards, network cards, 4 VLB video cards (#9, C&T, Trident, etc, several 2 meg), as well as some tape drives and a CD or two available to whoever wants to pick them up in Santa Monica. You must take the whole lot. No, not all of it is 10 years old. I'm just cleaning out the closet, and my hands are just too scarred from dealing with VLB insertion/extraction. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 21 19:15:37 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! In-Reply-To: "Sean Caron" "Re: Old SGI's?!" (Dec 21, 17:00) References: <6e.630cf01.2773cb74@aol.com> <068701c06b99$614a4700$0c00000a@techcare.com> Message-ID: <10012220115.ZM20319@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 21, 17:00, Sean Caron wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 4:09 PM > Subject: Re: Old SGI's?! > > > > << Hmm, I dunno about reputable, I called them to try and sell them this > > stupid > > origin 200 I have an the guy was a total ass.. he asked me if the stupid > > thing was stolen.. what a moron > > >> > > > > I looked at their "reasonable" prices.. *Not*. > I guess it's all relative. Granted, SGI systems are workstations, and if > you're > looking to purchase stuff from a reseller, it's going to be rather expensive > any way you go, because they're generally geared to the sort of clientele > that will purchase and pay larger amounts of money for workstations and > workstation parts. It's hard to keep this in mind sometimes when we are > so used to getting equipment for free or extremely cheaply, but sometimes > there's that part that we just really don't have much choice for. > > I didn't mean to point anyone in the "wrong" direction. I was just > suggesting > them as they certainly have the parts, and I personally have had nothing but > positive experiences with them in the past. I second Sean's point of view. I've dealt with Reputable, as have a few of my friends, and we've always found them helpful. The prices are reasonable, especially compared to others (including private sellers) in the workstation market. If you don't like them, you could try negotiating. Will, any reasonable reseller will check the provenance of something like an O200 -- not the sort of thing you usually find privately owned. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Dec 21 19:18:48 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Fwd: DEC stuff for sale, central Ohio In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001221084916.02711310@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001221171848.009b01a0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 08:50 21-12-2000 -0600, you wrote: >An unsolicited e-mail I received today: > >>From: "evan stickney" >>To: jfoust@threedee.com >>Subject: vax >>Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 09:18:57 -0500 >> >>Some DEC stuff I have for sale. Thanks, John. I had an E-mail dialogue with the fellow, and found out that he got our addresses from the Classic Computer Rescue list. I have attempted to educate him about why I though his message was nothing more than targeted spam when I first got it. At the very least, I think it would have helped if he'd simply have put "I got your addys from the Computer Rescue site" at the beginning (I've already told him as much). I would have forwarded his list if you hadn't. Thanks again. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From claudew at sprint.ca Thu Dec 21 19:52:12 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Free DEC LA100 main board Message-ID: <3A42B3CC.5019875E@sprint.ca> Hi I posted free/trade DEC stuff not too long ago. I had a taker for a DEC cdrom now I have a LA100 mainboard that will go in garbage soon if I get no replies. No idea if it works. Complete and looks ok. I have no idea if it's worth anything...not familiar with DEC stuff... Free for shipping cost from Montreal, Canada. Expect $3-5US approx. Claude From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 21 20:03:25 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001221200149.022386e0@pc> At 10:58 AM 12/21/00 -0800, you wrote: >The focus on sniping is missing a basic point, most people shop eBay "when >they are ready to buy" and don't even look at auctions more than a few >hours away. This is why the buy it now is so effective, as it puts your >item into play immediately. Am I missing something? I thought if the item's last bid was $2, and I proxy-bid and say my max is $10, then I'm safe until $10 and if someone else bids $6, I get it for $6 plus the bid auto-increment, right? - John From ncherry at home.net Thu Dec 21 20:46:57 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Free DEC LA100 main board References: <3A42B3CC.5019875E@sprint.ca> Message-ID: <3A42C0A1.FBEAFA04@home.net> Claude wrote: > > Hi > > I posted free/trade DEC stuff not too long ago. I had a taker for a DEC > cdrom now I have a LA100 mainboard that will go in garbage soon if I get > no replies. No idea if it works. Complete and looks ok. I have no idea > if it's worth anything...not familiar with DEC stuff... > > Free for shipping cost from Montreal, Canada. Expect $3-5US approx. > > Claude If you haven't gotten a reply I am interested (NJ US). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 21 20:53:49 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Tektronix 8002 uProcessor Lab In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20001221162224.3b3760a8@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001221215349.3b172544@mailhost.intellistar.net> Tony, No that's a completely different thing. I have one of those too but take a look at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/tek/tek8002.htm". Joe At 10:18 PM 12/21/00 +0000, you wrote: >> >> Does anyone have one of these or is anyone familar with them? I just > >I have something similar. > >The box with the floppy drive(s) (or maybe a Micropolis 1200 hard disk in >place of one of the floppies) is essentially a PDP11. There's a real DEC >CPU card (normally an PDP11/03, sometimes an 11/23) CPU card in there, >along with special Tektronix cards containing RAM, boot ROMs, disk >controller, serial ports, etc. The backplane has one normal DEC Q-bus >slot for the CPU and some Tektronix slots for the other cards. > >The other box can contain a variety of options -- EPROM programmer, >in-circuit emulator(s), logic analyser, and so on. The 2 units communicate >by a high speed (for the time) serial link. > >TekDOS is (IIRC) a much hacked RT11. There's also TNIX (which needs the >11/23 CPU and maybe a hard disk) which is a hacked Unix. > > >-tony > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 21 21:51:17 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Tektronix 8002 uProcessor Lab In-Reply-To: <14914.35973.12781.236708@phaduka.neurotica.com> References: <3.0.1.16.20001221162224.3b3760a8@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001221225117.341f7ba0@mailhost.intellistar.net> I have to take a look at the CPU on this one but I'm pretty sure that these don't use the DEC CPU. The model that uses the DEC CPU is a Tek 8560 or somrthing like that. I have one of them too but It's not here so I can't check the model number. Joe At 06:04 PM 12/21/00 -0500, you wrote: >On December 21, Tony Duell wrote: >> > Does anyone have one of these or is anyone familar with them? I just >> >> I have something similar. >> >> The box with the floppy drive(s) (or maybe a Micropolis 1200 hard disk in >> place of one of the floppies) is essentially a PDP11. There's a real DEC >> CPU card (normally an PDP11/03, sometimes an 11/23) CPU card in there, >> along with special Tektronix cards containing RAM, boot ROMs, disk >> controller, serial ports, etc. The backplane has one normal DEC Q-bus >> slot for the CPU and some Tektronix slots for the other cards. > > What?? REALLY? Damn, I passed up one at a hamfest this past >summer. I really regret it now. That sounds like a really neat >system. I had no idea Tek embedded DEC processors in their >development systems. > > -Dave McGuire > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Dec 21 21:33:34 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: PDP-5 info. Re: Comments? VAX pages In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001221133349.028b6e08@208.226.86.129> <5.0.0.25.2.20001221133349.028b6e08@208.226.86.129> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001221192909.02b09480@208.226.86.10> At 03:05 PM 12/21/00 -0700, Roger wrote: I don't have much to say about your VAX pages, >but the PDP-5 stuff caught my eye. I foolishly allowed >a friend to dismantle one many years ago; all I got >out of the deal was the front panel. Mine doesn't have >those rectangular slots(?) over on the left side and >one of the switches is different (it's got a really >long handle on it); I forget which switch. Its missing the "table" that extends in front of the panel. >It's my understanding that the modules the PDP-5 are >built out of are called System Modules. They predate >the flip-chip modules. You are correct sir. They have a bowed metal rim around the top. The core module is a third party affair surrounded by a few of them. The TTY interface is in the bottom and consists of a row of system modules. --Chuck From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 21 21:35:59 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: WGS 6386 and MiniArray In-Reply-To: <3A42A943.1ECB6F47@mminternet.com> Message-ID: I have high hopes my wife won't look in the back of my car. Today I filled it with mostly stuff I hope will be interesting to me, or somebody else. Two fairly complete looking AT&T WGS 6386 systems with mice and keyboards, no clue on internal status, but I can hope. ;) MultiTech MiniArray, doesn't look like a III either, just MiniArray, which is a 486 of some sort I think. Couple old macs IIcx, IIsi, a 14" display, a UPS, and a HP 550C with a couple transformers. Doesn't sound like that much, but sure filled the back of my old hatchback mustang. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 21 21:40:08 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? In-Reply-To: <3A42A943.1ECB6F47@mminternet.com> Message-ID: Any opinions on "rubber rejuvinent"? I want to give all my printers a once over during the holidays, and I've heard this stuff is just the ticket for lazy pickup rollers etc. Web searchs have shown a couple different aerosol products, but I think it also comes in bottles. Tomorrow I do some local hunting at a couple big electronics parts stores. Anybody have experience, or preferences? From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 21 23:15:29 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: 3 inch floppy drive? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001222001529.34f78cbc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Is anyone familar with the 3" floppy drives? Is that what these "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/3-inch.jpg" are? I pulled them out of a Loral 1553 bus analyzer. As you can see from the photo, a standard 3.5" floppy disk is too large for them. Do these use the same interface as the 3.5" drives? How many tracks do these support? Does anyone have a couple of 3" disks that they're willing to part with? Joe From marvin at rain.org Thu Dec 21 22:19:05 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? References: <4.3.2.7.0.20001221200149.022386e0@pc> Message-ID: <3A42D639.D3615A05@rain.org> John Foust wrote: > > >hours away. This is why the buy it now is so effective, as it puts your > >item into play immediately. > > Am I missing something? I thought if the item's last bid > was $2, and I proxy-bid and say my max is $10, then I'm safe > until $10 and if someone else bids $6, I get it for $6 plus > the bid auto-increment, right? The "Buy It Now" (BIN) feature puts a price on an item that stops the auction if that feature is used before any bids take place (the first bid eliminates the feature from the auction.) From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 21 22:30:25 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: 3 inch floppy drive? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001222001529.34f78cbc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: > Is anyone familar with the 3" floppy drives? Is that what these > "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/3-inch.jpg" are? I pulled them > out of a Loral 1553 bus analyzer. As you can see from the photo, a standard > 3.5" floppy disk is too large for them. Do these use the same interface as > the 3.5" drives? They were used in some Amstrad computers, and Amdek made external drive units that was sold for use with Apple ][ and Coco. They were also used BRIEFLY by Gavilan before they switched to 3.5" SA300. I think that there were also some Canon models with them. Same "SA400" interface. (Almost the same as 5.25 or 3.5" floppies) They were available in single or two headed. The single sided permitted turning the disk over for "flippy" use. > How many tracks do these support? 40 (per side) -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 558-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Dec 21 22:38:59 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <3A42D639.D3615A05@rain.org> from Marvin at "Dec 21, 0 08:19:05 pm" Message-ID: <200012220439.UAA09520@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > John Foust wrote: > > > > >hours away. This is why the buy it now is so effective, as it puts your > > >item into play immediately. > > > > Am I missing something? I thought if the item's last bid > > was $2, and I proxy-bid and say my max is $10, then I'm safe > > until $10 and if someone else bids $6, I get it for $6 plus > > the bid auto-increment, right? > > The "Buy It Now" (BIN) feature puts a price on an item that stops the > auction if that feature is used before any bids take place (the first bid > eliminates the feature from the auction.) And, from my view, an excellent milksop for the buyer. I figured it saved me $15+ on the $35 '030 accelerator I bought -- most of them usually go for $50+. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I'm an amateur orthinologist. I just love word-botching. ------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 21 22:41:45 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Dec 21, 2000 07:40:08 PM Message-ID: <200012220441.UAA00618@shell1.aracnet.com> > Any opinions on "rubber rejuvinent"? I want to give all my printers a once > over during the holidays, and I've heard this stuff is just the ticket for > lazy pickup rollers etc. Web searchs have shown a couple different aerosol > products, but I think it also comes in bottles. Tomorrow I do some local > hunting at a couple big electronics parts stores. Anybody have experience, > or preferences? I believe there is a brand called something like "Rubber Renews It", our ex printer/plotter guy absolutly swore by the stuff. Unfortunatly he retired last week after about 21 years of doing the job, it was *scarry* how much he knew about printers! I think the stuff I'm thinking of needs to be painted on. Personally an aerosol kind of scares me. Zane From vaxman at qwest.net Thu Dec 21 22:42:02 2000 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: OT mailer test Message-ID: Sorry for the spam... I'm setting up a new firewall, and I'm having trouble convincing sendmail.cf to do what I want.... Cross your fingers... clint PS You'll only see this if it works, not the many trys that didn't work :) From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Dec 21 22:51:54 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? In-Reply-To: Re: Rubber rejuvinent? (healyzh@aracnet.com) References: <200012220441.UAA00618@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <14914.56810.436931.675340@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 21, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > I believe there is a brand called something like "Rubber Renews It", our ex > printer/plotter guy absolutly swore by the stuff. Unfortunatly he retired > last week after about 21 years of doing the job, it was *scarry* how much he > knew about printers! I think it's "Rubber ReNu"...I saw that stuff work once, years ago...it was amazing. Haven't been able to find it, though. If anyone comes across a supplier, please let me know...I'd love to add a bottle of that stuff to my bag of tricks. -Dave McGuire From ncherry at home.net Thu Dec 21 23:02:29 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? References: <200012220441.UAA00618@shell1.aracnet.com> <14914.56810.436931.675340@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3A42E065.46FACC0F@home.net> Dave McGuire wrote: > > On December 21, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > I believe there is a brand called something like "Rubber Renews It", our ex > > printer/plotter guy absolutly swore by the stuff. Unfortunatly he retired > > last week after about 21 years of doing the job, it was *scarry* how much he > > knew about printers! > > I think it's "Rubber ReNu"...I saw that stuff work once, years > ago...it was amazing. Haven't been able to find it, though. > > If anyone comes across a supplier, please let me know...I'd love to > add a bottle of that stuff to my bag of tricks. > > -Dave McGuire I found this but I'm a bit leary of it: http://members.aol.com/saramedia/rubber.htm -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ncherry at home.net Thu Dec 21 23:03:29 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? References: Message-ID: <3A42E0A1.6CBFFA75@home.net> Mike Ford wrote: > > Any opinions on "rubber rejuvinent"? I want to give all my printers a once > over during the holidays, and I've heard this stuff is just the ticket for > lazy pickup rollers etc. Web searchs have shown a couple different aerosol > products, but I think it also comes in bottles. Tomorrow I do some local > hunting at a couple big electronics parts stores. Anybody have experience, > or preferences? If you find something that works let me know my 550C has the same problem. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From donm at cts.com Thu Dec 21 23:16:56 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > Any opinions on "rubber rejuvinent"? I want to give all my printers a once > over during the holidays, and I've heard this stuff is just the ticket for > lazy pickup rollers etc. Web searchs have shown a couple different aerosol > products, but I think it also comes in bottles. Tomorrow I do some local > hunting at a couple big electronics parts stores. Anybody have experience, > or preferences? Well, you may recall that HP used what was basically an emery board on the wheels of their DeskJets. - don From donm at cts.com Thu Dec 21 23:25:40 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: 3 inch floppy drive? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001222001529.34f78cbc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > Is anyone familar with the 3" floppy drives? Is that what these > "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/3-inch.jpg" are? I pulled them > out of a Loral 1553 bus analyzer. As you can see from the photo, a standard > 3.5" floppy disk is too large for them. Do these use the same interface as > the 3.5" drives? How many tracks do these support? Does anyone have a > couple of 3" disks that they're willing to part with? Joe, I have not looked at your pix yet, but there are a couple of 3" drives that I am aware. One is single sided and uses a 'flippy' that Maxell calls a CF2 and Hitachi called a HFD2. The other is a genuine double sided version. There can also be a difference in pinouts. Both 34 and 26 have been used. Some even reversed the +5 and +12vdc pin locations in the power connector. (Talk about a dirty trick!) Tony can speak with more authority than I on those things, though. - don From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 21 23:27:04 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? In-Reply-To: <200012220441.UAA00618@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > Any opinions on "rubber rejuvinent"? Is that like "Ubik"? From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Dec 21 23:18:16 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? In-Reply-To: Mike Ford's message of "Thu, 21 Dec 2000 19:40:08 -0800" References: Message-ID: <200012220518.eBM5IGj09453@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Mike Ford wrote: > Any opinions on "rubber rejuvinent"? I want to give all my printers a once > over during the holidays, and I've heard this stuff is just the ticket for > lazy pickup rollers etc. Web searchs have shown a couple different aerosol > products, but I think it also comes in bottles. Tomorrow I do some local > hunting at a couple big electronics parts stores. Anybody have experience, > or preferences? Back in the 1980s the HP CEs used to carry a bottle of something called Fedron that was very aromatic and good at making rubber printer rollers just grabby enough to pull paper through. It was so good I figure it caused the hole in the ozone layer and that's why you can't find it any more. Lately I've turned up (at Fry's, surprisingly enough) a 100ml bottle of something differently aromatic called Rubber Renue. It's from M. G. Chemicals and is their catalog number 408A-100ml. It seems to have made the rubber pads on the supply reel fingers in one of my HP 88780 drives a bit more grabby than they were, which was desired. I haven't tried it on printers yet. Fair warning, wherever you use this stuff will be pungent for a couple of days if the ventilation isn't good. It doesn't smell bad to me but your tastes may differ, and it's an eye/skin/lung irritant as well as flammable. Chemical contents are claimed to be dimethylbenzene (CAS#1330-20-7) and methyl salicylate (CAS#119-36-8). -Frank McConnell From ncherry at home.net Thu Dec 21 23:32:58 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? References: Message-ID: <3A42E78A.FC7DAD2E@home.net> Don Maslin wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > > > Any opinions on "rubber rejuvinent"? I want to give all my printers a once > > over during the holidays, and I've heard this stuff is just the ticket for > > lazy pickup rollers etc. Web searchs have shown a couple different aerosol > > products, but I think it also comes in bottles. Tomorrow I do some local > > hunting at a couple big electronics parts stores. Anybody have experience, > > or preferences? > > Well, you may recall that HP used what was basically an emery board on > the wheels of their DeskJets. On the 500 and 550 I know that they're a rubber like material. After a while they fail to pickup the paper. On the earlier models they were stone like. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From cube1 at home.com Thu Dec 21 23:51:56 2000 From: cube1 at home.com (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? In-Reply-To: References: <3A42A943.1ECB6F47@mminternet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001221234706.04553c50@cirithi> I got a couple of bottles of "Rubber Rejuvenator / Platen Cleaner" made by Tech Spray. Their part number is 1612-2SQ -- 2 oz bottle. The ingredients, according to the bottle, are D-Limonene and Chlorinated paraffin. It helped the internal rollers on my HP card reader quite a bit, but did not return the pick roller (which currently has a consistency somewhere between silly putty and glue -- anybody got one of these things that hasn't turned to glue yet?) to a usable state, though it even helped that just a little. Use at your own risk. It is marked "For professional or industrial use only". Non Ozone depleting. 8-) Can only be shipped via ground. I got my thru Newark Electronics. Jay Jaeger At 07:40 PM 12/21/00 -0800, Mike Ford wrote: >Any opinions on "rubber rejuvinent"? I want to give all my printers a once >over during the holidays, and I've heard this stuff is just the ticket for >lazy pickup rollers etc. Web searchs have shown a couple different aerosol >products, but I think it also comes in bottles. Tomorrow I do some local >hunting at a couple big electronics parts stores. Anybody have experience, >or preferences? --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 21 23:55:33 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? References: Message-ID: <003701c06bdb$cc9376c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Since most of those rollers are Styrene Butadiene rubber or something equally synthetic, a wipe with benzene might do as well as anything. That's sold as rubber cement thinner. Back in the days when we drew schematics/board layouts with pen and ink on a drawing board, I used it to remove the tape residue from my drawing board. Art supply stores sell it for about 5x the price of the Sanford rubber cement thinner under the tradename Bestine, which may no longer be available due to its toxicity. Spot removers of various types might be worth a look, too. I once thought I needed to soften my printer's rubber surfaces in the paper path, and gave the benzene/rubber-cement-thinner a try. It seemed to work and didn't do any noticeable damage. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Ford" To: Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 8:40 PM Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? > Any opinions on "rubber rejuvinent"? I want to give all my printers a once > over during the holidays, and I've heard this stuff is just the ticket for > lazy pickup rollers etc. Web searchs have shown a couple different aerosol > products, but I think it also comes in bottles. Tomorrow I do some local > hunting at a couple big electronics parts stores. Anybody have experience, > or preferences? > > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Dec 22 00:18:54 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: TQK70 Jumpers Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001221221854.0098ad80@pop.sttl.uswest.net> I already asked this on port-VAX, figured I'll try here, too. Can anyone provide one of the following: 1). Confirmation or denial that the address jumpers on the TQK50 (M7546) and the TQK70 (M7559) are laid out in the same pattern, bit-wise? In other words, does each board share the same pattern for setting its address? 2). A jumper chart for the TQK70, or jumper setting info to set it to the primary tape device address. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 22 00:49:42 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: 3 inch floppy drive? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001222001529.34f78cbc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > Is anyone familar with the 3" floppy drives? Is that what these > "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/3-inch.jpg" are? I pulled them > out of a Loral 1553 bus analyzer. As you can see from the photo, a standard > 3.5" floppy disk is too large for them. Do these use the same interface as > the 3.5" drives? How many tracks do these support? Does anyone have a > couple of 3" disks that they're willing to part with? Joe, looked at your pix and they appear to be DS drives with a 34-pin edge connector - doubtless standard. Double check the 5/12vdc thing, but that is probably OK also. Sorry but I cannot help with disks as I have no DS ones. - don From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 22 02:30:13 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:50 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? In-Reply-To: Neil Cherry "Re: Rubber rejuvinent?" (Dec 22, 0:03) References: <3A42E0A1.6CBFFA75@home.net> Message-ID: <10012220830.ZM943@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 22, 0:03, Neil Cherry wrote: > Mike Ford wrote: > > > > Any opinions on "rubber rejuvinent"? I want to give all my printers a once > > over during the holidays, and I've heard this stuff is just the ticket for > > lazy pickup rollers etc. Web searchs have shown a couple different aerosol > > products, but I think it also comes in bottles. Tomorrow I do some local > > hunting at a couple big electronics parts stores. Anybody have experience, > > or preferences? > > If you find something that works let me know my 550C has the same problem. In the printing industry, Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) is used to deep-clean ink rollers and "blankets" on offset litho machines. It's a powerful ink solvent, and also causes rubber to swell very slightly, so it removes the glaze you sometimes get, and lifts the dents you get in the blanket as a result of a paper smash[1]. MEK works well on pickup rollers, and it doesn't harm the ozone layer. However, like many solvents, it does dissolve some common plastics (polystyrene, ABS, PVC, etc) and paint; it also leaches the oils and fats from your skin, so don't wash in it :-) Not for too long, anyway. It's also flammable. However, it's much safer than benzene, xylol, etc. It's a relative of acetone (nail varnish remover) and you can get it from print suppliers (they may call it something like blanket rejuvenator, and charge extra), lab suppliers, etc. Put some on a cloth and wipe the roller with it. I've used it on lots of printer rollers, and the carriages of daisywheel and dotmatrix printers. You don't really want to use anything that is a good solvent for rubber or rubber cement as that will end up distorting the roller or making it gummy and ultimately leave you worse off. [1] In an offset litho press, the image is transferred from an image "plate" -- a very thin sheet of metal or plastic wrapped round a large drum -- to a rubber "blanket", also wrapped round a large drum. From there, the image is transferred to the paper. If a sheet of paper gets crumpled in the press, it makes dents in the blanket, which then fails to pick up ink from the plate in the low spots. This is called a "paper smash" or a "blanket smash". -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From edick at idcomm.com Fri Dec 22 03:21:32 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? References: <3A42E0A1.6CBFFA75@home.net> <10012220830.ZM943@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <009701c06bf8$93511580$1192fea9@idcomm.com> You're absolutely right that benzene, etc, are rubber solvents, but they're not as aggressive toward synthetic rubbers (Styrene-Butadiene which is Neoprene) as toward Latex-based rubber. What's more, MEK, and some of the other compounds you name will abosolutely and permanently alter the character of any of the high-tech plastics used in printers, so one has to be really careful. Even having it on the fingers will leave a print you have to sand out. If the rubber parts can be treated externally to the printer, it would be best to do so, and let the solvent clear out of the rubber before reinstalling it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 1:30 AM Subject: Re: Rubber rejuvinent? > On Dec 22, 0:03, Neil Cherry wrote: > > Mike Ford wrote: > > > > > > Any opinions on "rubber rejuvinent"? I want to give all my printers a > once > > > over during the holidays, and I've heard this stuff is just the ticket > for > > > lazy pickup rollers etc. Web searchs have shown a couple different > aerosol > > > products, but I think it also comes in bottles. Tomorrow I do some > local > > > hunting at a couple big electronics parts stores. Anybody have > experience, > > > or preferences? > > > > If you find something that works let me know my 550C has the same > problem. > > In the printing industry, Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) is used to deep-clean > ink rollers and "blankets" on offset litho machines. It's a powerful ink > solvent, and also causes rubber to swell very slightly, so it removes the > glaze you sometimes get, and lifts the dents you get in the blanket as a > result of a paper smash[1]. MEK works well on pickup rollers, and it > doesn't harm the ozone layer. However, like many solvents, it does > dissolve some common plastics (polystyrene, ABS, PVC, etc) and paint; it > also leaches the oils and fats from your skin, so don't wash in it :-) Not > for too long, anyway. It's also flammable. However, it's much safer than > benzene, xylol, etc. It's a relative of acetone (nail varnish remover) and > you can get it from print suppliers (they may call it something like > blanket rejuvenator, and charge extra), lab suppliers, etc. Put some on a > cloth and wipe the roller with it. I've used it on lots of printer > rollers, and the carriages of daisywheel and dotmatrix printers. > > You don't really want to use anything that is a good solvent for rubber or > rubber cement as that will end up distorting the roller or making it gummy > and ultimately leave you worse off. > > [1] In an offset litho press, the image is transferred from an image > "plate" -- a very thin sheet of metal or plastic wrapped round a large drum > -- to a rubber "blanket", also wrapped round a large drum. From there, the > image is transferred to the paper. If a sheet of paper gets crumpled in > the press, it makes dents in the blanket, which then fails to pick up ink > from the plate in the low spots. This is called a "paper smash" or a > "blanket smash". > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 22 03:20:35 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? In-Reply-To: <10012220830.ZM943@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: Neil Cherry "Re: Rubber rejuvinent?" (Dec 22, 0:03) <3A42E0A1.6CBFFA75@home.net> Message-ID: Right now my vote is going for a bottle of the MG Chemicals Rubber Renue, but I will report back on my success etc. Allied carries both MG and Techspray, and it looks like most of the big places do as well (Orvac, MarVac, Fry's). MG comes in bottles about 4 oz for $6, TechSpray is $6 for 2 oz, about $15 for aerosol can 12 oz, and I forget how much for a box of 48 premoist cleaning pads (sounds darn handy, but cost more than the bottle). BTW this is clearly a job I will be wearing disposable rubber gloves to do. From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 22 03:46:31 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: 3 inch floppy drive? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001222001529.34f78cbc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > Is anyone familar with the 3" floppy drives? Is that what these > "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/3-inch.jpg" are? I pulled them > out of a Loral 1553 bus analyzer. As you can see from the photo, a standard > 3.5" floppy disk is too large for them. Do these use the same interface as > the 3.5" drives? How many tracks do these support? Does anyone have a > couple of 3" disks that they're willing to part with? 3-inch drives were popular on Spectrum and Amstrad micros. A variation was also used on Nintendo floppy systems. The drive on the picture does indeed look like a three-incher, and wasn't Hitachi one of the manufacturers? From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 22 03:50:45 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20001221150534.008f30d0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Jeff Hellige wrote: > At 06:49 PM 12/21/00 +0100, you wrote: > >True, Toad pulled out a few years ago. > > What ever became of Toad's inventory of stuff when they dropped it? Did > they continue selling it until it was gone or did they somehow get rid of > it all in a fairly small length of time? I remember a buddy of mine going > in there during one of our trips to the store and buying a couple of > hundred dollars worth of Lynx cartridges. They had a pretty decent > selection onhand. I generally got my TOS upgrades from them. IIRC, they had clearance sales until some years ago, but I suppose some of the other Atari traders bought remaining supplies. I hope it didn't go the same way as the Apple Lisa, at least. > >Best are indeed still in the business. Err, isn't there some US shop > >called "Homa", too? Of course, there's the shady System Solutions of the > >UK, as well as Keychange Music. And a range of retailers in Germany, of > >course. > > I remember hearing about System Solutions but the other's don't ring a > bell. I guess since Toad wasn't more than 1-1/2 hours drive from where we > lived and my buddy and I made frequent road trips up to the store, there > wasn't much need to look much further for Atari stuff. The copule of times > I did, I generally went with Best. System solutions are the English importers of the MagiC OS and publishers of some hardware, such as rumoured PPC accelerators and PCI buses. From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Dec 22 05:24:30 2000 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent- Fedron Message-ID: Fedron is great. I have been using it for years. You can find it at a copier repair place. It works wonders with feed rollers but will dissolve some plastics so you want to be careful. Copier places buy it by the gallon. I just take a small bottle to them and buy like 1/2 a pint. You want a glass bottle with a good seal, it is highly volatile. A little goes a long way. I use a cotton cloth, dip a corner in the bottle and apply sparingly. Rotate the roller against the cloth. It works on inkjet feed rollers along with laser printer feed rollers. It has been a long time but I think I even used it on typewriter platen rollers, first cleaning them with alcohol to strip the ink. I usually do it outside, I don't like solvents in the house. Fedron works very well. I have no idea who makes it. Paxton Portland, OR From Innfogra at aol.com Fri Dec 22 05:58:08 2000 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Tektronix 8002 uProcessor Lab Message-ID: In a message dated 12/21/2000 6:54:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > I have to take a look at the CPU on this one but I'm pretty sure that > these don't use the DEC CPU. The model that uses the DEC CPU is a Tek 8560 > or somrthing like that. I have one of them too but It's not here so I can't > check the model number. > Joe is right. It is the 85XXs that used the DEC cards. I have had several of both. The 8540, 8550 & 8560 were Tektronix Microcomputer Development Labs. The 8540 hosted emulator/debugers and interfaced to VAX 780s. The 8560s were more stand alone and had an 11/23 processor. The 8561 was the Software Developing Unit and worked in combination with the integration emulator 85XX unit and a logic analyzer. To quote the 1984 Tek catalog, the 8561 had an 11/23 processor, 256K of Ram, 13.5 MB of HD, 1 Meg floppy (8"), 2 user ports and 2 printer ports. It could be upgraded to 8 users, 35.6 Meg of HD and 1 Meg of ram. It ran TNIX. The 8002 that Joe has is earlier and had been discontinued by '84. When Tek had their big Ross Dove auction here I got a truckload of this stuff. Includes were several 8002s and their associated Dual 8" floppy disk drive units, 8003s? The cards in these reminded me of overgrown S100 cards but they were tek's own. Stupidly I let my partner scrap them, not realizing it is the first units that are the ones to save. These date to the late 1970s. It reminded me of a 12 slot? S100 buss machine. The cards were about the same width but taller than S100 cards. I think the architecture was different but I never investigated. I am sorry, Joe, but I don't think I have anything left of that vintage, but I sure remember them. Paxton Portland, OR From claudew at sprint.ca Fri Dec 22 06:42:06 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? References: Message-ID: <3A434C1D.A7A991D6@sprint.ca> Mike Ford wrote: > Any opinions on "rubber rejuvinent"? I want to give all my printers a once > over during the holidays, and I've heard this stuff is just the ticket for I used Rubber Renu on bill acceptor (paper money) straps and rubber parts. Very smelly and will only extend the life a bit of a rubber part that most probably needs to be replaced most of the time. It will stink up a closed room maybe for a day or more... I would not use it unless you absolutly have to -- if you have a misbeaving rubber part thats unavailable or too expensive... Claude > > lazy pickup rollers etc. Web searchs have shown a couple different aerosol > products, but I think it also comes in bottles. Tomorrow I do some local > hunting at a couple big electronics parts stores. Anybody have experience, > or preferences? From THETechnoid at home.com Fri Dec 22 07:42:26 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Painting a VT-100 ? In-Reply-To: <20001220092405.B11959@loisto.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: <20001222140139.LKWN15927.femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I usually use an abrasive to clean yellowed plastic. Scotchbrite pads and Ajax work for me. Your English is very good Jarkko! Your vocabulary and composition are excellent. You even use your articles (the, a, an) without misusing or overusing them. Many people with English as a second language simply give up on the articles and speak or write without them - Yakov Smirnoff ;-). While it is possible to speak well in English without articles, you'd come off sounding William Shatner. "Use Bleach With Green Pads Scotty!" as opposed to 'Use a green pad and some bleach'..... Since your Ajax and Scotchbrite names are probably in Finnish, the first is a (usually) green, flat, fibrous, abrasive pad used to wash dishes with. The second is a household, powdered abrasive sometimes called 'scouring powder'. I like to use the kind with bleach as it helps whiten the plastic. This works particularly well on textured and matte surfaces, but might dull a shiny surface.Try a test patch in an inconspicuous area first. My premis in using abrasives is simply that the outer layer of plastic is trashed beyond rejuvination. Removing it gently with a polishing method removes this exposing fresh new skin. Regards, Jeff In <20001220092405.B11959@loisto.uwasa.fi>, on 12/22/00 at 08:42 AM, Jarkko Hermanni Teppo said: >I'm a proud owner of two 102's and I just found a VT-100 (sans keyboard) >and all of them have the same cosmetic problem ie. they're yellow. >Different shades of yellow, one is mildly yellow, one is dark yellow etc. >So, can anyone tell what was the original color (of the case, in case you >didn't figure that out from my pretty poor English) in either >approximated terms ("eye blinding white") or in something like Pantone:) -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 22 09:17:05 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: 3 inch floppy drive? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20001222001529.34f78cbc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001222101705.44a709ce@mailhost.intellistar.net> Don, These are Hitachi HFD305SX drives. They are double sided. The power input is the standard 4 pin Molex connector. I'll check the power connectios on it. The interface cable uses a 34 pin card edge connector. I've heard of 3" floppy drives but these are the first that I've seen. Joe At 09:25 PM 12/21/00 -0800, you wrote: > > >On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > >> Is anyone familar with the 3" floppy drives? Is that what these >> "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/3-inch.jpg" are? I pulled them >> out of a Loral 1553 bus analyzer. As you can see from the photo, a standard >> 3.5" floppy disk is too large for them. Do these use the same interface as >> the 3.5" drives? How many tracks do these support? Does anyone have a >> couple of 3" disks that they're willing to part with? > >Joe, I have not looked at your pix yet, but there are a couple of 3" drives >that I am aware. One is single sided and uses a 'flippy' that Maxell >calls a CF2 and Hitachi called a HFD2. The other is a genuine double >sided version. There can also be a difference in pinouts. Both 34 and >26 have been used. Some even reversed the +5 and +12vdc pin locations >in the power connector. (Talk about a dirty trick!) > >Tony can speak with more authority than I on those things, though. > > - don > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 22 09:20:02 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: 3 inch floppy drive? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20001222001529.34f78cbc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001222102002.44a7254e@mailhost.intellistar.net> "Nintendo floppy systems" A floppy system on a Nintendo? I've never heard of one. What were they used for? The only Nintendo devices that I've seen are the game machines and they use plug-in ROM cartridges. Joe At 10:46 AM 12/22/00 +0100, Iggy wrote: >On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > >> Is anyone familar with the 3" floppy drives? Is that what these >> "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/3-inch.jpg" are? I pulled them >> out of a Loral 1553 bus analyzer. As you can see from the photo, a standard >> 3.5" floppy disk is too large for them. Do these use the same interface as >> the 3.5" drives? How many tracks do these support? Does anyone have a >> couple of 3" disks that they're willing to part with? > >3-inch drives were popular on Spectrum and Amstrad micros. A variation was >also used on Nintendo floppy systems. The drive on the picture does indeed >look like a three-incher, and wasn't Hitachi one of the manufacturers? > > From russ at rbcs.8m.com Fri Dec 22 08:33:30 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: obsoletecomputermuseum.org In-Reply-To: <00122112083501.03972@Billbob_Linux> Message-ID: I haven't been on there in a while but didn't realize that it was down/gone. I have to look and see if I have the owner's email address and write to find out if this is it or if there is a new site now. Maybe it's time to see about getting someone to sponsor a site similar to that, with the posted messages and such online? The possibilities are endless I guess... -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Layer Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 12:09 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: obsoletecomputermuseum.org I noticed that the Obsolete Computer Helpine at http://www.obsoletecomputermuseum.org broke and was taken down a couple of weeks ago, but now the whole server is unresponsive. No website anymore. Anyone know what's up with this? -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++ | .:Bill Layer:. | Viking Electronics,Inc. 1531 Industrial St | | .:Sales Technician:. | Hudson, WI 54016 USA + 715.386.8861 x210 | | b.layer@vikingelectronics.com | http://www.vikingelectronics.com | ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++ "Telecom Solutions for the 21st Century" + Powered by Slackware Linux 7.1.0 From russ at rbcs.8m.com Fri Dec 22 08:37:27 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent- Fedron In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fedron is just a brand name and there are others as well, all very good. I get mine in small containers through MCM Electronics. Very volatile-yes. Platen cleaner also is, made for typewriter platens but also works on printers, and is essentially methyl ethyl ketone, aka MEK. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Innfogra@aol.com Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 5:25 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Rubber rejuvinent- Fedron Fedron is great. I have been using it for years. You can find it at a copier repair place. It works wonders with feed rollers but will dissolve some plastics so you want to be careful. Copier places buy it by the gallon. I just take a small bottle to them and buy like 1/2 a pint. You want a glass bottle with a good seal, it is highly volatile. A little goes a long way. I use a cotton cloth, dip a corner in the bottle and apply sparingly. Rotate the roller against the cloth. It works on inkjet feed rollers along with laser printer feed rollers. It has been a long time but I think I even used it on typewriter platen rollers, first cleaning them with alcohol to strip the ink. I usually do it outside, I don't like solvents in the house. Fedron works very well. I have no idea who makes it. Paxton Portland, OR From russ at rbcs.8m.com Fri Dec 22 08:40:23 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? In-Reply-To: <009701c06bf8$93511580$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: MEK on the hands is also a problem as MEK can become a liver problem over years of use. It's absorbed through the skin into the bloodstream and eventually becomes a problem for your liver. Gloves, especially the thick rubber chemical type, are the best idea when using ketones such as MEK. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Richard Erlacher Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 3:22 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Rubber rejuvinent? You're absolutely right that benzene, etc, are rubber solvents, but they're not as aggressive toward synthetic rubbers (Styrene-Butadiene which is Neoprene) as toward Latex-based rubber. What's more, MEK, and some of the other compounds you name will abosolutely and permanently alter the character of any of the high-tech plastics used in printers, so one has to be really careful. Even having it on the fingers will leave a print you have to sand out. If the rubber parts can be treated externally to the printer, it would be best to do so, and let the solvent clear out of the rubber before reinstalling it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pete Turnbull" To: Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 1:30 AM Subject: Re: Rubber rejuvinent? > On Dec 22, 0:03, Neil Cherry wrote: > > Mike Ford wrote: > > > > > > Any opinions on "rubber rejuvinent"? I want to give all my printers a > once > > > over during the holidays, and I've heard this stuff is just the ticket > for > > > lazy pickup rollers etc. Web searchs have shown a couple different > aerosol > > > products, but I think it also comes in bottles. Tomorrow I do some > local > > > hunting at a couple big electronics parts stores. Anybody have > experience, > > > or preferences? > > > > If you find something that works let me know my 550C has the same > problem. > > In the printing industry, Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) is used to deep-clean > ink rollers and "blankets" on offset litho machines. It's a powerful ink > solvent, and also causes rubber to swell very slightly, so it removes the > glaze you sometimes get, and lifts the dents you get in the blanket as a > result of a paper smash[1]. MEK works well on pickup rollers, and it > doesn't harm the ozone layer. However, like many solvents, it does > dissolve some common plastics (polystyrene, ABS, PVC, etc) and paint; it > also leaches the oils and fats from your skin, so don't wash in it :-) Not > for too long, anyway. It's also flammable. However, it's much safer than > benzene, xylol, etc. It's a relative of acetone (nail varnish remover) and > you can get it from print suppliers (they may call it something like > blanket rejuvenator, and charge extra), lab suppliers, etc. Put some on a > cloth and wipe the roller with it. I've used it on lots of printer > rollers, and the carriages of daisywheel and dotmatrix printers. > > You don't really want to use anything that is a good solvent for rubber or > rubber cement as that will end up distorting the roller or making it gummy > and ultimately leave you worse off. > > [1] In an offset litho press, the image is transferred from an image > "plate" -- a very thin sheet of metal or plastic wrapped round a large drum > -- to a rubber "blanket", also wrapped round a large drum. From there, the > image is transferred to the paper. If a sheet of paper gets crumpled in > the press, it makes dents in the blanket, which then fails to pick up ink > from the plate in the low spots. This is called a "paper smash" or a > "blanket smash". > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > > From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Fri Dec 22 09:02:56 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: obsoletecomputermuseum.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00122209025600.04114@Billbob_Linux> The site was run by Tom Carlson, his email address is/was tcarlson@ncsc.dni.us. His format was a *little* outdated, but it was still a really great site. If the site doesn't reappear in the next few weeks, I'm considering creating my own, using Phorum. http://www.phorum.org You out there Tom? On Friday 22 December 2000 08:33, you wrote: > I haven't been on there in a while but didn't realize that it was > down/gone. I have to look and see if I have the owner's email address and > write to find out if this is it or if there is a new site now. > > Maybe it's time to see about getting someone to sponsor a site similar to > that, with the posted messages and such online? The possibilities are > endless I guess... -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | .:Bill Layer:. | Viking Electronics,Inc. 1531 Industrial St | | .:Sales Technician:. | Hudson, WI 54016 USA + 715.386.8861 x210 | | b.layer@vikingelectronics.com | http://www.vikingelectronics.com | ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Telecom Solutions for the 21st Century" + Powered by Slackware Linux 7.1.0 From tarsi at binhost.com Fri Dec 22 09:13:17 2000 From: tarsi at binhost.com (Tarsi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: obsoletecomputermuseum.org In-Reply-To: References: <00122112083501.03972@Billbob_Linux> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20001222090829.02b206d0@binhost.com> At 08:33 AM 12/22/00 -0600, you wrote: >I haven't been on there in a while but didn't realize that it was down/gone. >I have to look and see if I have the owner's email address and write to find >out if this is it or if there is a new site now. > >Maybe it's time to see about getting someone to sponsor a site similar to >that, with the posted messages and such online? The possibilities are >endless I guess... I have the Abandoned Computer Shelter site at http://www.computershelter.org. At the moment it's rather small and juvenile, but I'm looking to expand it. I need some Perl CGI stuff done to make bulletin boards and to automate the signup procedure for getting your name on the ACS list. (anyone? anyone?) Who knows. It'd be nice to have a consistent site, I think. Plus, then have a museum section to feature different old computers. I'd probably ask that people contribute pictures of their "museum-able" pieces, some history behind them, and what you use them for now. I think those are more interesting than the old "well, I use it as a coffeetable" stories. "I use my VAX for a wetbar!" <--- classic example. :) So....at any rate, if anyone has ideas, let me know. :) Tarsi 210 From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Fri Dec 22 09:14:48 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent- Fedron In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00122209144802.04114@Billbob_Linux> On Friday 22 December 2000 08:37, you wrote: > Fedron is just a brand name and there are others as well, all very good. Rawnron, for instance.. -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ | .:Bill Layer:. | Viking Electronics,Inc. 1531 Industrial St | | .:Sales Technician:. | Hudson, WI 54016 USA + 715.386.8861 x210 | | b.layer@vikingelectronics.com | http://www.vikingelectronics.com | ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Telecom Solutions for the 21st Century" + Powered by Slackware Linux 7.1.0 From nabil at SpiritOne.com Fri Dec 22 09:21:36 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: <14914.21830.144815.928900@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Dave McGuire wrote: > On December 21, Aaron Nabil wrote: > > If I can offer advise, use the proxy system. Enter the amount maximum > > amount you are willing to pay. You have absolutely, irrevocably defused > > ANY danger of sniping. > > If the item is commonly available through other sources, sure, I > agree. But lots of stuff on eBay isn't. Rare is the "one of a kind" > item, but if I see something that I've been looking for for years on > eBay, my definition of "maximum" is a very subjective thing...and may > have nothing to do with the "street value" of the item...it has more > to do with how badly I want it, and how much trouble I'd have to go > through to get it elsewhere. I'm not sure I understand how your "very subjective maximum" at all alters my assertion that using the proxy system entirely sidesteps the problem of snipers. I think it is safe to say that the "maximum you are willing to pay" is ALWAYS very subjective. How does bidding your maximum via the proxy system fail to defuse snipers just becuase the item is rare? -- Aaron Nabil From russ at rbcs.8m.com Fri Dec 22 10:01:18 2000 From: russ at rbcs.8m.com (Russ Blakeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent- Fedron In-Reply-To: <00122209144802.04114@Billbob_Linux> Message-ID: Hadn't heard that one before...I did have some MIL-S surplus that I bought from a salvage sale on Ft. Knox and just finished it up but it was made by the dame company that makes fedron. Good stuff and used a lot in my business where I rework/repair any printer from an old Star SG10 to an AS/400 connected IBM 6262. Of course I use a lot of isopropyl and denatured alcohol as well as lacquer thinner too but they're a little easier to acquire and not as expensive. I got the military surplus for $3 for a quart, couldn't pass that up even though the military listed it as past it's shelf life. That stuff doesn't breka down or wear out - it's always good unless the can is damaged. -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Bill Layer Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 9:15 AM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Rubber rejuvinent- Fedron On Friday 22 December 2000 08:37, you wrote: > Fedron is just a brand name and there are others as well, all very good. Rawnron, for instance.. -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++ | .:Bill Layer:. | Viking Electronics,Inc. 1531 Industrial St | | .:Sales Technician:. | Hudson, WI 54016 USA + 715.386.8861 x210 | | b.layer@vikingelectronics.com | http://www.vikingelectronics.com | ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++ "Telecom Solutions for the 21st Century" + Powered by Slackware Linux 7.1.0 From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Dec 22 11:25:28 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Snipe S/W? In-Reply-To: RE: Snipe S/W? (Aaron Nabil) References: <14914.21830.144815.928900@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <14915.36488.312586.523674@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 22, Aaron Nabil wrote: > I'm not sure I understand how your "very subjective maximum" at all alters > my assertion that using the proxy system entirely sidesteps the problem > of snipers. I think it is safe to say that the "maximum you are willing > to pay" is ALWAYS very subjective. > > How does bidding your maximum via the proxy system fail to defuse > snipers just becuase the item is rare? Because bidding via the proxy system means bidding your maximum ONCE. Over the course of several days during an auction, due to new information, new finds, other competing auctions etc etc, my "maximum" may change from moment to moment. Think of it as a cop-out...it's sometimes REALLY difficult to come up with a good "maximum value" and stick to it. If I want something badly enough, who knows! -Dave McGuire From mbg at world.std.com Fri Dec 22 11:52:26 2000 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: O/T: need some help Message-ID: <200012221752.MAA26331@world.std.com> I know this is off-topic due to lack of age, but maybe since the company no longer exists (), maybe it can be sortof ontopic Does anyone happen to know how compatible parts are between the Digital Hinote VP (TS31D) and another Digital Hinote VP(-535, TS30G)? I need to replace the battery, disk, cdrom and floppy for a TS30G and I have the opportunity to buy a TS31D... Thanks in advance... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 22 12:12:01 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Rubber rejuvinent? In-Reply-To: <3A434C1D.A7A991D6@sprint.ca> References: Message-ID: >I would not use it unless you absolutly have to -- if you have a misbeaving >rubber part thats unavailable or too expensive... The sad story for really just about all old printers is that the most minimal of real repair or parts, and they are junk not worth fixing. However if they can be coaxed into another 15% of their normal life, then often in a home setting that works out to years of service. BTW anybody else mutter/think to themselves more than once a day, "this is insane" and keep on doing it? From optimus at canit.se Fri Dec 22 14:09:11 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: 3 inch floppy drive? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001222102002.44a7254e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > "Nintendo floppy systems" > > A floppy system on a Nintendo? I've never heard of one. What were they > used for? The only Nintendo devices that I've seen are the game machines > and they use plug-in ROM cartridges. A while after the Japanese release of the Famicom (here to be known as NES), Nintendo decided that ROM cartridges were too costly and couldn't be afforded by the kids. Thus, they released a floppy drive which was plugged into the cartridge port of the Famicom and accepted this kind of oblong disks, though they weren't exactly the same format as the common three-inch disk. Many classic games, such as Zelda, were first released on the Nintendo disk system, only to be converted to cartirdge later, as these dropped in price. These disks could be taken to the shop and be loaded with a new game at a small fee when you desired a new game. Nintendo do actually still copy games for disk system owners at a very affordable 400 yen. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 22 13:21:09 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: sniping, Xebec example In-Reply-To: References: <14914.21830.144815.928900@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: Aack! Yesterday and this morning there were auctions for Xebec SASI Sider (old hard drive for apple) controller cards. Both early on had bids of like $1, and I slipped in 20 minutes before the close yesterday and bought the first card (with a 25 pin controller cable) for $2.25 using a proxy bid of $6.58. I talked to the seller last night and made a combo deal on shipping, then forgot to bid on the second card this morning (37 pin cable) which the guy I sniped yesterday won for about $5. Now I don't "need" both cards, but Murphy's law says my Sider uses a 37 pin cable, and I haven't checked yet. For the first one I figured my max bid as $10 including $3.20 for shipping. Since I made a deal on shipping the "meat" of the second bid would have been maybe just over $8. As a snipe I "think" that $8 might have won the second auction, but I really doubt it would have won if I placed it last night as a proxy limit. I "know" if the tables were turned and I lost the first bid to a snipe, woke up the next morning with the same person topping my bid on a card that is both rare and one I need, that I would attempt to outbid them with a new more agressive maximum, and yes, as a snipe at the last moment too late for them to react and bid higher. Making it clear. I want this card. I have a Sider without a controller, so its a real need. A real need with a finite budget, ie I wouldn't even think about paying $25 for a card, and $10 is even pushing my limit, but bidding say $15 with a "fair" chance of getting it for less than $10, is a gamble I am willing to take. By fair chance, I mean that over several such operations, the "average" is less than $10. That just doesn't happen with a early proxy bid. From reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu Fri Dec 22 13:58:01 2000 From: reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu (Reuben Reyes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Free Computers in North Austin Texas. Message-ID: If you live in Austin several computers, printers, and monitors are available for free. The location is just north of the intersection of Burnet and Metric on Burnet. The stuff is located by the dumpster behind the Compass Bank building. The computers are 386 and 486 and were working when taken off line. The Monitors are VGA some are dim. Most of the printers are in the dumpster. A few SCSI drives and cables are also stacked by the dumpster. All are free if any thing is left it will be trashed Sat afternoon. What you dont want can be taken to Computer GoodWill on 183 or to "Computers-4Kids Thrift Store" on 2928 Manor Rd. in east Austin. The "Computers-4Kids" is also a good place to pick up old computers. Reuben From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 22 12:33:44 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Painting a VT-100 ? In-Reply-To: <20001222140139.LKWN15927.femail6.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> References: <20001220092405.B11959@loisto.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: In my experience there are two kinds of yellow, stain from cigarette smoke etc., and sun yellowing. Stains often do clean up, sun yellowing never. I've tried every cleaning pad, cleanser, scrub powder I can find short of a power sander, and when I'm done its a shiny clean, often smooth, yellow. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 22 12:59:55 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: 3 inch floppy drive? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20001222101705.44a709ce@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 22, 0 10:17:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4523 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001222/ab8f5dba/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 22 15:37:50 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: 3 inch floppy drive? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: > On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > > > Is anyone familar with the 3" floppy drives? Is that what these > > "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/3-inch.jpg" are? I pulled them > > out of a Loral 1553 bus analyzer. As you can see from the photo, a standard > > 3.5" floppy disk is too large for them. Do these use the same interface as > > the 3.5" drives? How many tracks do these support? Does anyone have a > > couple of 3" disks that they're willing to part with? > > 3-inch drives were popular on Spectrum and Amstrad micros. A variation was > also used on Nintendo floppy systems. The drive on the picture does indeed > look like a three-incher, and wasn't Hitachi one of the manufacturers? > Yes, I have a Hitachi single-sider. - don From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 22 15:04:25 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: 3 inch floppy drive? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Iggy Drougge wrote: > A while after the Japanese release of the Famicom (here to be known as > NES), Nintendo decided that ROM cartridges were too costly and couldn't be > afforded by the kids. Thus, they released a floppy drive which was plugged Heck, the carthridges they sell on today's systems are way too costly and can't be afforded by kids, so I don't think that was any consideration. They probably needed something more durable than diskettes. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Dec 22 17:08:36 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: IBM Series/1 possibly available in MN References: <200012212151.PAA28237@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <012301c06c6c$1ee89280$93731fd1@default> Let me know a good day to pick them up and were offline. Thanks John jrkeys@concentric.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence LeMay" To: Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 3:51 PM Subject: Re: IBM Series/1 possibly available in MN > and you could also pickup several huge boxes of system/1 manuals that > are too big to ship from me (before i'm forced to toss them as the > previous pwner had). > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > > If anyone in the Minnetonka, Minnesota area is interested in the > > possibility of an IBM Series/1 mainframe, please contact me privately. I > > have a lead for you. > > > > Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -------- > > International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org > > > > > > From dcoward at pressstart.com Fri Dec 22 19:25:42 2000 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: 3 inch floppy drive? Message-ID: <4.1.20001222155502.05087480@mail.pressstart.com> Joe said: >"Nintendo floppy systems" > A floppy system on a Nintendo? I've never heard of one. What were they >used for? The only Nintendo devices that I've seen are the game machines >and they use plug-in ROM cartridges. In case this is not answered by the time I get the digest: Before the NES, Nintendo developed a personal computer that (I believe) only sold in Japan called the "FamiCom" or Family Computer. It had a floppy disk system available for it. The drive was powered by batteries and used a 3" yellow floppy that had the word NINTENDO embossed on it. http://www.atarihq.com/tsr/fds/fds.html Then the disk system was combined with the FamiCom to create the "Twin FamiCom". http://www.atarihq.com/tsr/odd/scans/twinfamicom.html I still have a couple FamiComs, a Twin FamiCom and a couple of the the disk systems. --Doug =================================================== Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com (work) Sr Software Engineer mranalog@home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Visit the new Analog Computer Museum and History Center at http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog =================================================== From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Dec 22 22:22:35 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Advice Requested (kind of long...) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001222202235.0097a100@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Fellow CLASSICCMP'ers and NetBSD Port-VAX'ers, I've reached the point where I need to make some decisions, and I would appreciate some insights from those who have obviously been computing since before I figured out how to pull apart my first alarm clock. ;-) I'm getting ready to create my own 'server farm' to place the bluefeathertech.com domain on. My ultimate goal is to be dependent on Qwest (or whoever my ISP ends up being in the long run) only for: --The DSL line --DNS support --Usenet (and maybe not even that if I choose to set up a caching news server locally). I want to take responsibility for everything else, including: --Two mail servers (primary and backup) --A web server (already up and running since last summer) --An FTP system that can do double-duty as a local caching Usenet server with a LIMITED (less than 50) newsgroups (I don't have a terabyte storage array). ;-) --A "maintenance" server that can be dedicated to netbooting other systems, if need be, and that will also serve as a central recording point for logging from the other machines. Everything will run a version of NetBSD as its OS. This is not negotiable. With all this in mind, and considering I have numerous retired systems available, I'm looking for suggestions on which platform to use for which purpose. Here is what I have active now: SPARC IPC (Local DNS, intranet only). SPARCClassic, 32MB RAM, 1 gig disk -- Web server. Here are the machines I have available that have yet to be put to use. --SPARC IPX with the Weitek PowerSPARC upgrade CPU, 32MB RAM. --At least one, possibly two more SPARCClassics, 32MB RAM each (both under consideration for mail servers). --NEC RISCServer 2200, dual CPUs, 64MB RAM (Under consideration for taking over as web server at a future point). --Two MicroVAX 3's, 32MB RAM each. --DEC 3000/600 Alpha system, 128MB RAM (under consideration as a future workstation). --VAXServer 3100, 16MB RAM (can possibly go to 24). --VAXStation 3100/M38, 16MB RAM (can possibly go to 24). --ApplicationDEC dual-CPU 486 system, 16MB RAM. --DEC 5000/200 MIPS box, RAM unknown. --Motorola MVME147 tower system, RAM unknown (at least 8, possibly 16MB), under consideration for the "maintenance" node mentioned earlier. So..... which machine gets to do what? Any thoughts? I have enough SCSI disks to give all the machines a minimum storage space of between 520MB-1 gig. I do have one 9-gig Seagate that I'm reserving for the FTP/Usenet box. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Dec 22 22:30:21 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Almost forgot... Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001222203021.009798f0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Oops! Almost forgot... Amongst the available machines for my project, add the following (sorry... one is about 1 year short of being a 'classic', and none of them are VAXen). --Mid-90's vintage Pentium system, dual-CPU, 64MB RAM. --Two NCR 3300 series MicroChannel/486 systems, at least 32MB RAM each. --One NCR 3450 series MCA Dual-CPU 486 system, 64MB RAM. --One IBM PS/2-90 series, 486/50, 32MB RAM. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Dec 23 00:12:40 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Advice Requested (kind of long...) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001222202235.0097a100@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001222215026.02b8d240@208.226.86.10> At 08:22 PM 12/22/00 -0800, you wrote: > I'm getting ready to create my own 'server farm' to place the >bluefeathertech.com domain on. Excellent! >My ultimate goal is to be dependent on Qwest >(or whoever my ISP ends up being in the long run) only for: > > --The DSL line > --DNS support > --Usenet (and maybe not even that if I choose to set up a caching > news >server locally). Personally if I were you I'd do my own DNS as well, especially if you're going to be connected 24 x 7. So what you're doing is creating your own "POP" (Point of Presence) > --Two mail servers (primary and backup) > --A web server (already up and running since last summer) > --An FTP system that can do double-duty as a local caching Usenet > server >with a LIMITED (less than 50) newsgroups (I don't have a terabyte storage >array). ;-) > --A "maintenance" server that can be dedicated to netbooting other >systems, if need be, and that will also serve as a central recording point >for logging from the other machines. > > Everything will run a version of NetBSD as its OS. This is not > negotiable. So design your network from the cloud out. Start with your backbone feed, (this to your ISP) then, depending on your address space, fork your network into the "public" network and the "private" network. Set up firewalls between the two. Generally I'd set up one machine as the web server, two as mail servers (also doing double duty as DNS servers), and one as the FTP/News server. (5 machines total). Then use a couple of machines to serve disk pages to the primary machines for extended storage. Now firewall to your private network and have the firewall be locked tight. If you want to set up a VPN tunnel point this machine can do that, PPTP works with WinBlows laptops but setting up an IPSEC tunnel from your laptop running NetBSD to the private network is much more fun. On the "inside" you can have a file server with tape backup and of course your workstation(s). I've been hacking on my DSSI driver for NetBSD and was reminded of my Sun days where I had a bunch of file servers serving up the source code, my development machine, and the machine that I was putting kernels on and rebooting and debugging. I've created that at home basically 10 years later. Very weird when it comes right down to it. --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 23 01:35:37 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Advice Requested (kind of long...) In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001222215026.02b8d240@208.226.86.10> References: <3.0.5.32.20001222202235.0097a100@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: >Personally if I were you I'd do my own DNS as well, especially if you're >going to be connected 24 x 7. So what you're doing is creating your own >"POP" (Point of Presence) I've got to agree here, while it's unlikely your ISP's DNS will fail, having your own should allow for faster access I would think. OTOH, who am I to talk. I've got web, FTP and mail going, but have been to lazy to setup DNS. But then I lean towards one mondo Alpha running VMS for most of my stuff (actually most of the exterior stuff is on one Alpha running OpenBSD). I see you've not mentioned a firewall, are you going to have all this sitting naked on the internet? I *STRONGLY* recommend a Firewall running OpenBSD!!!!!!!!!! Look at it this way, I'm a VMS type, not a BSD type, and my firewall runs OpenBSD. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From spc at conman.org Sat Dec 23 02:15:44 2000 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Advice Requested (kind of long...) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001222202235.0097a100@pop.sttl.uswest.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Dec 22, 2000 08:22:35 PM Message-ID: <200012230815.DAA22976@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Bruce Lane once stated: > > I'm getting ready to create my own 'server farm' to place the > bluefeathertech.com domain on. My ultimate goal is to be dependent on Qwest > (or whoever my ISP ends up being in the long run) only for: I would recomend Velotel (http://www.velotel.com/) for the ISP portion. For $65/month (high end, could be less) I get DSL, 5 static IP addresses, and no restrictions on OS or services I can run from my network and their customer service is outstanding (so far, I don't think I've talked to the same person twice, but each person knew what I was talking about (and had even heard of ISDN and the problems I would face in switching over from ISDN to DSL in Bell South territory) and they keep good customer notes. > --The DSL line > --DNS support Run your own. Velotel will even allow you to handle the reverse look ups of your IP addresses (easy enough to set up on both sides). God, I sound like a commercial for Velotel 8-) Or better yet, arrange to use other DNS servers for your domain (register those as authoritative name servers for your domain) and have them slave to you. That way, you cut down on DNS traffic through your network, yet it's easy to update the information on your side. It's what I do for my own domain of conman.org. > I want to take responsibility for everything else, including: > > --Two mail servers (primary and backup) You only really need one, the backup will simply queue the mail until the primary is back up. If you are really anal about getting email, arrange to have a backup mail server on another network. Again, this is something I've done for my own domain (heck, my web server (a 486SX-33 with a 17G harddrive 8-) is colocated on a separate network from my primary DNS servers and backup email servers, which are separate from my home network. If you want advice on setting any of this up, or more details about my network set up, don't hesitate to ask me 8-) -spc (Sounds like a fun project) From spc at conman.org Sat Dec 23 02:17:44 2000 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Almost forgot... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001222203021.009798f0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Dec 22, 2000 08:30:21 PM Message-ID: <200012230817.DAA22985@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Bruce Lane once stated: > > Oops! Almost forgot... > > Amongst the available machines for my project, add the following (sorry... > one is about 1 year short of being a 'classic', and none of them are VAXen). > > --Mid-90's vintage Pentium system, dual-CPU, 64MB RAM. > --One NCR 3450 series MCA Dual-CPU 486 system, 64MB RAM. Any one of these will make a decent fire wall system. Check the net, there are plenty of sites and distributions for this type of work. -spc (Why waste a VAX as a firewall? 8-) From Pierre-Michel.Ricordel at imag.fr Sat Dec 23 03:29:42 2000 From: Pierre-Michel.Ricordel at imag.fr (Pierre-Michel Ricordel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Advice Requested (kind of long...) References: <3.0.5.32.20001222202235.0097a100@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <001a01c06cc2$e238c380$0300a8c0@pricorde.org> > With all this in mind, and considering I have numerous retired systems > available, I'm looking for suggestions on which platform to use for which > purpose. Here is what I have active now: > > SPARC IPC (Local DNS, intranet only). > SPARCClassic, 32MB RAM, 1 gig disk -- Web server. > > Here are the machines I have available that have yet to be put to use. > > --SPARC IPX with the Weitek PowerSPARC upgrade CPU, 32MB RAM. > --At least one, possibly two more SPARCClassics, 32MB RAM each (both under > consideration for mail servers). > > --NEC RISCServer 2200, dual CPUs, 64MB RAM (Under consideration for taking > over as web server at a future point). > > --Two MicroVAX 3's, 32MB RAM each. > --DEC 3000/600 Alpha system, 128MB RAM (under consideration as a future > workstation). > > --VAXServer 3100, 16MB RAM (can possibly go to 24). > --VAXStation 3100/M38, 16MB RAM (can possibly go to 24). > --ApplicationDEC dual-CPU 486 system, 16MB RAM. > > --DEC 5000/200 MIPS box, RAM unknown. > > --Motorola MVME147 tower system, RAM unknown (at least 8, possibly 16MB), > under consideration for the "maintenance" node mentioned earlier. I just hope that electricity is cheap in you area. ;-) Just my 2 Watts. P-M From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 23 04:27:00 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Advice Requested (kind of long...) In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Re: Advice Requested (kind of long...)" (Dec 22, 23:35) References: <3.0.5.32.20001222202235.0097a100@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <10012231027.ZM8604@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 22, 23:35, Zane H. Healy wrote: > On Dec 22, 22:12, Chuck McManis wrote: > >Personally if I were you I'd do my own DNS as well, especially if you're > >going to be connected 24 x 7. So what you're doing is creating your own > >"POP" (Point of Presence) > > I've got to agree here, while it's unlikely your ISP's DNS will fail, > having your own should allow for faster access I would think. I'm sure it will. If you don't want to run your own primary/secondary yourself, at least run one on the mail server(s); it will make quite a difference if you handle any volume of mail. That's why we run four: primary, secondary, and one on each of staff and student mail servers. > I see you've not mentioned a firewall, are you going to have all this > sitting naked on the internet? I *STRONGLY* recommend a Firewall running > OpenBSD!!!!!!!!!! Look at it this way, I'm a VMS type, not a BSD type, and > my firewall runs OpenBSD. Definitely! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Dec 23 04:27:02 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Free Computers in North Austin Texas. In-Reply-To: ; from reyes@orion.ae.utexas.edu on Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 01:58:01PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20001223042702.Q3732@mrbill.net> On Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 01:58:01PM -0600, Reuben Reyes wrote: > What you dont want can be taken to > Computer GoodWill on 183 or to "Computers-4Kids Thrift Store" on 2928 > Manor Rd. in east Austin. The "Computers-4Kids" is also a good place > to pick up old computers. I second this; I picked up a Sun-2/170 there the other day for $15. Its a great place; big junky warehouse with boxes-on-pallets just begging to be dug through. I about cried, though, when I found a box with about 100 SuperSPARC *heatsinks* in it - from the looks of them, they'd been foribly removed from the CPU modules in question. 8-( No idea what happened to the CPUs.. Friend of mine who works there, didnt know either... Bill -- Bill Bradford | "Do you expect me to talk?" mrbill@mrbill.net | "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die!" Austin, TX | -- "Goldfinger", 1964 From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 23 08:02:58 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions Message-ID: <10012231402.ZM13788@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> I've just got all my collection back out of storage and I'm hoping to get my VT78 up and running after Christmas. It's not been used in about 10 years (before I got it), so obviously some care and testing is going to be required first. And of course I have a "few" questions... Is there anything in particular I should watch out for when I power it up? I don't have the RX01 drives that originally came with it, but I do have the connecting cable with a D-37 connector at the VT78 end and a DB-25 at the other end (only 18 pins fitted). I also have a set of RX02s in the adjacent rack, and I have the RX02 printset and manuals somewhere. I assume I can set the RX02 (M7044) switches appropriately, and use that with an appropriate adapter cable? Anyone know the relevant VT78 pinout? Documentation: all I can find that's even vaguely relevant is the DECscope User's manual, RX8/RX11 Floppy Disk System User's Manual, RX8/RX11 Floppy Disk System Maintenance Manual, the OS/8 Software Support Manual, and a FOCAL-GT/RT User's Manual. I have borrowed copies of the Small Computer Handbook (that's the one for 8/e, 8/f and 8/m) and the PDP8/a Minicomputer Handbook. I should have the RX02 User Manual somewhere too. What else am I going to need, that's downloadable from the net? I should have some 8" floppies, though I'm not sure what's on them becasuse I've not actually found them yet :-) Is there anything I should try downloading from the net? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From optimus at canit.se Sat Dec 23 08:15:19 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Almost forgot... In-Reply-To: <200012230817.DAA22985@conman.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Dec 2000, Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner wrote: > It was thus said that the Great Bruce Lane once stated: > > > --Mid-90's vintage Pentium system, dual-CPU, 64MB RAM. > > --One NCR 3450 series MCA Dual-CPU 486 system, 64MB RAM. > > Any one of these will make a decent fire wall system. Check the net, > there are plenty of sites and distributions for this type of work. Not if he's to run NetBSD (which was a requirement). Judging by the current state of the NetBSD MCA support, he'd have to run the NCR firewall on a TokenRing network. And the day when NetBSD sees support for NCA dual-CPU 486 MCA systems should indeed be very far off. From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 23 10:44:20 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Almost forgot... References: <3.0.5.32.20001222203021.009798f0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <002301c06cff$99119320$1192fea9@idcomm.com> The only thing I'd say is that you need to be certain that your ISP supports an unfiltered connection for its DSL customers. Most providers filter NNTP, WWW, and email traffic before it ever gets to your feed, so you're dead unless you can get a "special dispensation" from above. All providers are capable, but it normally requires (1) knowing someone in a position to render the special dispensation and (2) making a "donation" ranging from a 6-pack to a 2-week vacation on a private island with Christie Brinkley. In most cases, all that I know of, it must be arranged surreptitiously. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Lane" To: Cc: Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 9:30 PM Subject: Almost forgot... > Oops! Almost forgot... > > Amongst the available machines for my project, add the following (sorry... > one is about 1 year short of being a 'classic', and none of them are VAXen). > > --Mid-90's vintage Pentium system, dual-CPU, 64MB RAM. > --Two NCR 3300 series MicroChannel/486 systems, at least 32MB RAM each. > --One NCR 3450 series MCA Dual-CPU 486 system, 64MB RAM. > --One IBM PS/2-90 series, 486/50, 32MB RAM. > > Thanks much. > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) > "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be > superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). > > From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Dec 23 11:09:47 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Advice Requested (kind of long...) In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001222215026.02b8d240@208.226.86.10> <3.0.5.32.20001222202235.0097a100@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001223090947.009a8290@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 23:35 22-12-2000 -0800, you wrote: >I see you've not mentioned a firewall, are you going to have all this >sitting naked on the internet? I *STRONGLY* recommend a Firewall running >OpenBSD!!!!!!!!!! Look at it this way, I'm a VMS type, not a BSD type, and >my firewall runs OpenBSD. Permit me to clarify. I already have a very good hardware firewall/router in place (Zyxel Prestige 312). Thanks. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Dec 23 11:18:06 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Let's try this again... Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001223091806.009ae180@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Fellow compu-folks, While I appreciate the advice given so far, NONE of it has addressed my original question. Let me clarify a couple of things. 1). I already have a perfectly good hardware firewall/router in the form of a Zyxel Prestige 312. I do NOT need to dedicate any other system to this task. 2). My ORIGINAL question: Given the list of machines I posted earlier, which system would be best suited to which function? Here are my current thoughts on this. Mail servers: Both SPARCClassics or a Classic and that accelerated IPX I have. (Future) Web server: The NEC RISCStation 2200. Plenty of headroom to grow there. The FTP/News box: One of the MicroVAX 3's. Lots of space up front for large-capacity hard drives. The maintenance node: That Motorola MVME147 tower. Ok? Any counterpoints? Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Dec 23 11:32:14 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Almost forgot... In-Reply-To: <002301c06cff$99119320$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: <3.0.5.32.20001222203021.009798f0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001223093214.009a8380@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 09:44 23-12-2000 -0700, Dick Erlacher wrote: >The only thing I'd say is that you need to be certain that your ISP supports >an unfiltered connection for its DSL customers. Most providers filter NNTP, >WWW, and email traffic before it ever gets to your feed, so you're dead Qwest does not do this. I have already discussed with them the fact that I will be running servers. They have no objections. I will say I'm amazed that any DSL provider would, if one has purchased a static IP block as I have, try to impose restrictions against servers. Isn't that what static blocks are for? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 23 11:27:12 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: <10012231402.ZM13788@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Dec 23, 0 02:02:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1659 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001223/6bbe078f/attachment.ksh From vixie at mfnx.net Sat Dec 23 11:45:20 2000 From: vixie at mfnx.net (Paul A Vixie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Let's try this again... In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 23 Dec 2000 09:18:06 PST." <3.0.5.32.20001223091806.009ae180@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <200012231745.JAA86681@redpaul.mfnx.net> > While I appreciate the advice given so far, NONE of it has addressed my > original question. Let me clarify a couple of things. > ... > Here are my current thoughts on this. > ... i have vaxes and even a symbolics 3640 which i play with from time to time. but my production systems have users, including employees, guests, and family, and i'm having trouble imagining why i would subject these people to older slower equipment which "only paul can fix" rather than buying modern 1U boxes whose operation and maintainance can be done by anybody on the technical staff. that said, i applaud your choices and i think the box assignments you've made won't steer you wrong. for netnews you'll want a modern scsi drive since if you don't have at least 50GB you can't store enough news to be worth reading. but that'll attach to any of the machines you've got, and cost about $400. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Dec 23 12:02:41 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:51 2005 Subject: Almost forgot... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001223093214.009a8380@pop.sttl.uswest.net> from Bruce Lane at "Dec 23, 0 09:32:14 am" Message-ID: <200012231802.KAA10174@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Qwest does not do this. I have already discussed with them the fact > that I > will be running servers. They have no objections. > > I will say I'm amazed that any DSL provider would, if one has > purchased a > static IP block as I have, try to impose restrictions against servers. > Isn't that what static blocks are for? Yep. I think they were referring to the dynamic DSL you get in a lot of places. How much do you pay for your service? Soon stockholm and my IIci running NetBSD will be on their own network, but I want to start pricing. I need to run servers also, and static IP. PacBell was asking something quite horrific. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Do you think I could buy back my introduction to you? -- Groucho Marx ------ From bouyer at antioche.lip6.fr Sat Dec 23 12:03:32 2000 From: bouyer at antioche.lip6.fr (Manuel Bouyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Advice Requested (kind of long...) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001222202235.0097a100@pop.sttl.uswest.net>; from Bruce Lane on Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 08:22:35PM -0800 References: <3.0.5.32.20001222202235.0097a100@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <20001223190332.A579@antioche.eu.org> On Fri, Dec 22, 2000 at 08:22:35PM -0800, Bruce Lane wrote: > Fellow CLASSICCMP'ers and NetBSD Port-VAX'ers, > > I've reached the point where I need to make some decisions, and I would > appreciate some insights from those who have obviously been computing since > before I figured out how to pull apart my first alarm clock. ;-) > > I'm getting ready to create my own 'server farm' to place the > bluefeathertech.com domain on. My ultimate goal is to be dependent on Qwest > (or whoever my ISP ends up being in the long run) only for: > > --The DSL line > --DNS support > --Usenet (and maybe not even that if I choose to set up a caching news > server locally). > > I want to take responsibility for everything else, including: > > --Two mail servers (primary and backup) > --A web server (already up and running since last summer) > > --An FTP system that can do double-duty as a local caching Usenet server > with a LIMITED (less than 50) newsgroups (I don't have a terabyte storage > array). ;-) > > --A "maintenance" server that can be dedicated to netbooting other > systems, if need be, and that will also serve as a central recording point > for logging from the other machines. > > Everything will run a version of NetBSD as its OS. This is not negotiable. > > With all this in mind, and considering I have numerous retired systems > available, I'm looking for suggestions on which platform to use for which > purpose. Here is what I have active now: > > SPARC IPC (Local DNS, intranet only). > SPARCClassic, 32MB RAM, 1 gig disk -- Web server. > > Here are the machines I have available that have yet to be put to use. > > --SPARC IPX with the Weitek PowerSPARC upgrade CPU, 32MB RAM. > --At least one, possibly two more SPARCClassics, 32MB RAM each (both under > consideration for mail servers). > > --NEC RISCServer 2200, dual CPUs, 64MB RAM (Under consideration for taking > over as web server at a future point). > > --Two MicroVAX 3's, 32MB RAM each. > --DEC 3000/600 Alpha system, 128MB RAM (under consideration as a future > workstation). > > --VAXServer 3100, 16MB RAM (can possibly go to 24). > --VAXStation 3100/M38, 16MB RAM (can possibly go to 24). > --ApplicationDEC dual-CPU 486 system, 16MB RAM. > > --DEC 5000/200 MIPS box, RAM unknown. > > --Motorola MVME147 tower system, RAM unknown (at least 8, possibly 16MB), > under consideration for the "maintenance" node mentioned earlier. > > So..... which machine gets to do what? Any thoughts? I have enough SCSI > disks to give all the machines a minimum storage space of between 520MB-1 > gig. I do have one 9-gig Seagate that I'm reserving for the FTP/Usenet box. This mostly depends on the load on the mail, www and ftp servers. When I ran some tests, a 486dx33 with a slow SCSI disk was able to deliver 3000 mail in an hour (this was with 1.3.x, I'd expect better perfs with 1.5). So I guess the 2 classic could be valuable mail server if you don't need to get/send more than a few hundred mails per hours (for the backup, and IPC or even the vaxserver would be enouth). I have a p100 with 32MB RAM, good UW scsi disks and a 100Mbs ethernet card as web/ftp server (serving, amongs others, www2/ftp2.fr.netbsd.org). pwebstat reported loads as higth as 11000 requests per hour (I have no cgi running, though). Again this depends on what load you expect for the www server, but the classic can do the job. -- Manuel Bouyer, LIP6, Universite Paris VI. Manuel.Bouyer@lip6.fr -- From bouyer at antioche.lip6.fr Sat Dec 23 12:05:56 2000 From: bouyer at antioche.lip6.fr (Manuel Bouyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Let's try this again... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001223091806.009ae180@pop.sttl.uswest.net>; from Bruce Lane on Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 09:18:06AM -0800 References: <3.0.5.32.20001223091806.009ae180@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <20001223190556.B579@antioche.eu.org> On Sat, Dec 23, 2000 at 09:18:06AM -0800, Bruce Lane wrote: > Fellow compu-folks, > > While I appreciate the advice given so far, NONE of it has addressed my > original question. Let me clarify a couple of things. > > 1). I already have a perfectly good hardware firewall/router in the form > of a Zyxel Prestige 312. I do NOT need to dedicate any other system to this > task. > > 2). My ORIGINAL question: Given the list of machines I posted earlier, > which system would be best suited to which function? > > Here are my current thoughts on this. > > Mail servers: Both SPARCClassics or a Classic and that accelerated IPX I > have. > > (Future) Web server: The NEC RISCStation 2200. Plenty of headroom to grow > there. > > The FTP/News box: One of the MicroVAX 3's. Lots of space up front for > large-capacity hard drives. It may be a bit slow. I'd use a Classic for this, and use one of the MicroVAX as mail backup (should'nt get much traffic anyway). -- Manuel Bouyer, LIP6, Universite Paris VI. Manuel.Bouyer@lip6.fr -- From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 23 12:41:02 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Let's try this again... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001223091806.009ae180@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: > 2). My ORIGINAL question: Given the list of machines I posted >>earlier, which system would be best suited to which function? > > Here are my current thoughts on this. > > Mail servers: Both SPARCClassics or a Classic and that accelerated >>IPX I have. > > (Future) Web server: The NEC RISCStation 2200. Plenty of headroom >to >grow there. > > The FTP/News box: One of the MicroVAX 3's. Lots of space up front >>for large-capacity hard drives. > > The maintenance node: That Motorola MVME147 tower. > > Ok? Any counterpoints? Thanks much. I don't think I'd go with the MicroVAX 3 for FTP/News, in fact I don't think I'd use it for anything other than the 'maintenance node'. It strikes me that using it will result in I/O bottlenecks, isn't the Q-Bus rated at 3Mb/sec? Plus I would think that News is somewhat CPU intensive (actually I've no idea on this one, but it seems logical, anyone know?). I'd be almost inclined to use the DEC 3000/600 for this one, but a good Sparc would probably be as suited. If you're set on using a VAX for this, the VAXstation 3100/M38 is probably a better choice. The DEC 5000/200 is also a possibility. I don't feel qualified to commend on your choice of Webserver, or the Motorolla MVME147 tower, as I'm not familiar with either. BTW, why on earth are you set on using classic hardware? It seems to me that two beafy semi-modern systems could handle everything and be cheaper to power. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From djg at drs-esg.com Sat Dec 23 13:18:47 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions Message-ID: <200012231918.OAA07616@drs-esg.com> >Date: Sat, 23 Dec 2000 14:02:58 GMT >From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) >Subject: VT78 - lots of questions > >Is there anything in particular I should watch out for when I power it up? > This is an area of discussion. The full treatment is to inspect, reform big electrolytic capacitors (put a current limited voltage on them for a while), then separately test the power supply, then attempt to power up the cards. The other is to visually inspect, apply power for a short while, and if nothing bad happened apply power longer and try to run it. >I don't have the RX01 drives that originally came with it, but I do have >the connecting cable with a D-37 connector at the VT78 end and a DB-25 at >the other end (only 18 pins fitted). I also have a set of RX02s in the >adjacent rack, and I have the RX02 print set and manuals somewhere. I >assume I can set the RX02 (M7044) switches appropriately, and use that with >an appropriate adapter cable? Anyone know the relevant VT78 pinout? > My VT78 is running off of RX02's set to RX8E mode. They also have the DB25 plug on the back which will connect directly to the VT78 cable. If yours don't I should be able to dig up the pinout if you don't run across it in one of the manuals. >Documentation: all I can find that's even vaguely relevant is the DECscope >User's manual, RX8/RX11 Floppy Disk System User's Manual, RX8/RX11 Floppy >Disk System Maintenance Manual, the OS/8 Software Support Manual, and a >FOCAL-GT/RT User's Manual. I have borrowed copies of the Small Computer >Handbook (that's the one for 8/e, 8/f and 8/m) and the PDP8/a Minicomputer >Handbook. I should have the RX02 User Manual somewhere too. What else am >I going to need, that's downloadable from the net? > I have WPS, RX02 and OS/78, and COS manuals online. I have a complete VT78 printset but I have not scanned it yet. http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query.shtml What is FOCAL-GT/RT? >I should have some 8" floppies, though I'm not sure what's on them because >I've not actually found them yet :-) Is there anything I should try >downloading from the net? > I have OS/78, COS and WPS images online, poke around in ftp://pdp8.net/images/ If you have a OS/8 variant on the floppy that may be able to use my disk image dump and restore programs, dumprest.zip in ftp://pdp8.net/software/ I have never actually tried to use it on the VT78, I write the images from the 8/E. If you find you don't have any bootable floppies I can make you one. My VT78 has gotten a little finicky, it sometimes needs a couple of power cycles before it runs right. Yet another thing for the todo list. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights From lgwalker at look.ca Fri Dec 22 16:21:58 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.20001221150534.008f30d0@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3A438DB6.6340.20616B1@localhost> > On Thu, 21 Dec 2000, Jeff Hellige wrote: > > > At 06:49 PM 12/21/00 +0100, you wrote: > > >True, Toad pulled out a few years ago. > > > > What ever became of Toad's inventory of stuff when they dropped it? > > Did they continue selling it until it was gone or did they somehow > > get rid of it all in a fairly small length of time? I remember a > > buddy of mine going in there during one of our trips to the store > > and buying a couple of hundred dollars worth of Lynx cartridges. > > They had a pretty decent selection onhand. I generally got my TOS > > upgrades from them. > > IIRC, they had clearance sales until some years ago, but I suppose > some of the other Atari traders bought remaining supplies. I hope it > didn't go the same way as the Apple Lisa, at least. > A guy in New England bought their remaining stock after a clearance sale. He sold thru the newsgroup for a while. Don't know if he is still doing it. > > >Best are indeed still in the business. Err, isn't there some US > > >shop called "Homa", too? Of course, there's the shady System > > >Solutions of the UK, as well as Keychange Music. And a range of > > >retailers in Germany, of course. > > > > I remember hearing about System Solutions but the other's don't > > ring a bell. I guess since Toad wasn't more than 1-1/2 hours drive > > from where we lived and my buddy and I made frequent road trips up > > to the store, there wasn't much need to look much further for Atari > > stuff. The copule of times I did, I generally went with Best. > Homa is a company based in Ottawa,Ontario. He sells some of the German programs. I think one of them is "Pixel Graphics" . There's also an outfit in Seattle(?) which sells mainly 8-bit Atari stuff but also some ST. Can't recall the name but he advertises regularly in Atari 8-bit and unlike Best provides a free catalogue. The Best catalogue tho is well worth the price. Around $10 IIRC. > System solutions are the English importers of the MagiC OS and > publishers of some hardware, such as rumoured PPC accelerators and PCI > buses. > > There's also an inventive guy in New Zealand, Mario Becroft, who makes various adapters such as one that allows you to use your ST with an SVGA monitor. http://gem.win.co.nz/ ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From claudew at sprint.ca Sat Dec 23 19:19:43 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude.W) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Fixing a MAC SE30 "horizontal stripe" board Message-ID: <000701c06d47$99710380$2b00a8c0@Gamer_Claude.HOME> Hi I accumulted about 30+ compact macs in the recent months (128ks,512ks etc...). I am in the process of restoring/fixing the most interesting ones...and keeping just maybe one of each model for my collection... Really hate to throw this SE30 board in the garbage... Just get a bunch of horizontal stripes. Replaced all surface mount caps. Some had obviously leaked. All ram good. Simm Rom good. Putting board in other functionnal Se30 case still gives me horizontal stripes. Next step is getting scope in there but I have no schematics. Perhaps someone who has fixed a lot of these boards can point me to where most problems were. Thanks for reading Claude -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001223/6487d623/attachment.html From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 23 19:12:37 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: David Gesswein "Re: VT78 - lots of questions" (Dec 23, 14:18) References: <200012231918.OAA07616@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <10012240112.ZM29951@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 23, 14:18, David Gesswein wrote: > >From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) > >Is there anything in particular I should watch out for when I power it up? > This is an area of discussion. The full treatment [...]. Well, I would do most of that anyway, but I wondered if there were any particular gotchas. I assume not, so I'll just take normal care :-) > >I don't have the RX01 drives [...] I also have a set of RX02s > My VT78 is running off of RX02's set to RX8E mode. They also have the > DB25 plug on the back which will connect directly to the VT78 cable. If > yours don't I should be able to dig up the pinout if you don't run across > it in one of the manuals. I don't see a DB25, but Tony has said something similar, and I should be able to hack an adaptor. Thanks for the tip about RX8E mode -- that's one of the things I was wondering about. I assume that the difference between RX8E (= RXV11/RX11) mode, and RX28 mode, is the denisty supported? ie, RX28 mode makes the drives behave as RX02 rather than RX01? Did'nt I read somewhere that some VT78s (or was it only DECmates?) can use RX02 mode? > I have WPS, RX02 and OS/78, and COS manuals online. I have a complete VT78 > printset but I have not scanned it yet. > http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query.shtml That's extremely helpful -- thanks! I knew you had several manuals but I've not had time to browse yet. > What is FOCAL-GT/RT? All I know is what the front of the manual says: FOCAL-GT is a version of FOCAL-11 extended to use a GT40 with graphics as well as a teletype. So in fact, it's not relevant at all, as it's meant for an 11/05. It was a red herring, sorry. > >I should have some 8" floppies, though I'm not sure what's on them because > >I've not actually found them yet :-) Is there anything I should try > >downloading from the net? > > > I have OS/78, COS and WPS images online, poke around in ftp://pdp8.net/images/ Even better, since I've unpacked al the boxes and can't find any VT78 floppies. Lots of other things I forgot I had :-) but not those. > If you have a OS/8 variant on the floppy that may be able to use my disk > image dump and restore programs, dumprest.zip in > ftp://pdp8.net/software/ > I have never actually tried to use it on the VT78, I write the images > from the 8/E. > > If you find you don't have any bootable floppies I can make you one. Well, before I go that far, I might try to get 8" drives running on an old PC that has an XT controler which *should* do SD, I think. Can I use something like PUTR to create a disk that way? Thanks for the suggestions and help. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 23 19:04:19 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: VT78 - lots of questions" (Dec 23, 17:27) References: Message-ID: <10012240104.ZM29746@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 23, 17:27, Tony Duell wrote: > I had to do almost the reverse -- my PDP8/e is a desktop system (I don't > have a spare rack for it at the moment), and the RX01 drive is in the > tabletop case. I had to make up the cable to link the DB25 on the back > of that to the RX8e card in the PDP8. The pins used in the DB25 (and the 37-way) are arranged at one end of the connector, in such a way that I am wondering if they're arranged to be easy to crimp a matching connector onto a ribbon cable. And I seem to remember that only the alternate pairs of pins are used on the RX02's 40-way Berg. Hmm, looking at the M7744 there seem to be 11 signal lines, so that idea's not quite right. Time to dig out the print set, I think. > AFAIK, you can set the DIP switches in an RX02 so that it behaves > identically to the RX01. This shouldn't give any problems. Yes, I've found the User Manual now, and it gives the DIP switch settings for use with RXV21/RX211, RXV11/RX11/RX8E, and RX28. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From rdd at smart.net Sat Dec 23 19:34:11 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SMD drive cabling Message-ID: Season's Greetings, Well, today, I finally removed my CDC 9" SMD disk drive from the living room; getting it down the basement steps was fun. Anyway, now it's only a few feet away from my 11/73 and 11/44. The 11/73, running RT-11 and RSX-11, already has two, much smaller, 8" Fujitsu SMD drives in it. Now then, I've got an RL02 pack labeled RSX-11M, which I'm hoping contains a complete RSX-11M distribution. If I can get an RL02 controller board for the 11/73, will there be any problem with just connecting one of the SMD cables to the CDC drive and copying RSX-11M onto it? Should I be able to boot this from any PDP-11? One note: this CDC drive appears to be configured for drive select 1, not 0... does anyone know where I can get one of those little square buttons used to select drive 0? When I get the intermittent CPU problem on the 11/44 fixed, and find a UNIBUS SMD controller, can I just attach the CDC drive to the 11/44 and have it boot and go, or will I need to reconfigure something? Thanks for any info. that anyone can provide about this! -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 23 19:42:18 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: <10012240104.ZM29746@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Dec 24, 0 01:04:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 900 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001224/9fa166f8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 23 19:51:54 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: <10012240112.ZM29951@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Dec 24, 0 01:12:37 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2653 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001224/0bd66a3f/attachment.ksh From vaxman at qwest.net Sat Dec 23 19:56:45 2000 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Almost forgot... In-Reply-To: <002301c06cff$99119320$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: I haven't tried WWW and email yet, but USWest (now QWest.net) doesn't filter NNTP... I occasionaly connect to my local news cache to get an article I want... Our newsfeed at work is worse than horrid... clint On Sat, 23 Dec 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote: > The only thing I'd say is that you need to be certain that your ISP supports > an unfiltered connection for its DSL customers. Most providers filter NNTP, > WWW, and email traffic before it ever gets to your feed, so you're dead > unless you can get a "special dispensation" from above. All providers are > capable, but it normally requires (1) knowing someone in a position to > render the special dispensation and (2) making a "donation" ranging from a > 6-pack to a 2-week vacation on a private island with Christie Brinkley. In > most cases, all that I know of, it must be arranged surreptitiously. > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bruce Lane" > To: > Cc: > Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 9:30 PM > Subject: Almost forgot... > > > > Oops! Almost forgot... > > > > Amongst the available machines for my project, add the following (sorry... > > one is about 1 year short of being a 'classic', and none of them are > VAXen). > > > > --Mid-90's vintage Pentium system, dual-CPU, 64MB RAM. > > --Two NCR 3300 series MicroChannel/486 systems, at least 32MB RAM each. > > --One NCR 3450 series MCA Dual-CPU 486 system, 64MB RAM. > > --One IBM PS/2-90 series, 486/50, 32MB RAM. > > > > Thanks much. > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > > http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > > Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) > > "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be > > superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). > > > > > > > From vaxman at qwest.net Sat Dec 23 19:58:01 2000 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Almost forgot... In-Reply-To: <200012231802.KAA10174@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: Qwest doesn't (yet?) filter on the dynamic IPs either... clint On Sat, 23 Dec 2000, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Qwest does not do this. I have already discussed with them the fact > > that I > > will be running servers. They have no objections. > > > > I will say I'm amazed that any DSL provider would, if one has > > purchased a > > static IP block as I have, try to impose restrictions against servers. > > Isn't that what static blocks are for? > > Yep. I think they were referring to the dynamic DSL you get in a lot of > places. > > How much do you pay for your service? Soon stockholm and my IIci running > NetBSD will be on their own network, but I want to start pricing. I need > to run servers also, and static IP. PacBell was asking something quite > horrific. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Do you think I could buy back my introduction to you? -- Groucho Marx ------ > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 23 19:58:38 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SMD drive cabling In-Reply-To: from "R. D. Davis" at Dec 23, 0 08:34:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1785 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001224/d13acc21/attachment.ksh From bill_r at inetnebr.com Sat Dec 23 21:12:40 2000 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Finite State Fantasies Book - now On-line! Message-ID: So long ago I had forgotten about doing it, I posted a message to this group looking for information about Richard Didday and/or Matrix Publishers/Dilithium Press. Just a few days ago, Richard e-mailed me out of the blue, responding to that message. Either he's really been stuck in the "Symbiosis Through Transmutation" device all this time, or he suddenly started reading archives of this group and saw his name. In any case, he has kindly given me permission to scan and post a sort of funky computer-cartoon book of his that was published in 1976. I reduced the size of the scans substantially to make for quicker web viewing, but if anyone wants a full-sized (300 dpi) scanned copy, let me know. To view it on-line, go to my "Historic Computer Publications" page at: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/historic_pubs.htm and scroll all the way to the bottom. Let me know what you think! -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) Web Page: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Dec 23 21:51:01 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: DSL Rate Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001223195101.0097bd50@pop.sttl.uswest.net> I just figured out that someone asked me how much I was paying for my DSL from Qwest. Forgive me, but I can't find who the original poster was. Anyway: Base rate for the line is $29.95/mo. Round to $30. Add to that $35/mo for Qwest.net (the ISP) to be the host. Includes web space (which I no longer use) and mailboxes (which I won't be using much longer). Finally, tack on $15/mo for a private block of eight static IP's. Three are reserved to be the network, gateway, and broadcast addresses for my subnet (I'm subnetted off a class A block), and five are user-definable, function-wise. Subtract one more for the router interface, and that leaves me four usable. Total: A little under $80/month for everything, and that includes a guaranteed data rate of 256K down (I get 384 during rainy weather, and 512K during dry), and 272K up. If anyone knows of another ISP that can give me my own subnet for $50/month or less, and equivalent bandwidth, please say so. ;-) Hope that helps. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Dec 23 22:25:49 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Lifetime of VAX NiCd packs? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001223202416.02b6ceb0@208.226.86.10> Does anyone know the approximate lifetime of the NiCd battery on a VAX when it isn't turned on all the time? I've got several dead ones and it is irritating to set the language and boot device every time. I've tried "zapping" them, this brought one back but the other is quite dead. I've almost have enough to put together one get pack from cells in the bad ones :-) --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 23 22:33:15 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: DSL Rate References: <3.0.5.32.20001223195101.0097bd50@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <000d01c06d62$a3fa8220$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Hmmm . . . that's interesting, to be sure. I'm not the one who asked, BTW, and I don't know where you are, of course, but the DSL throught Qwest here is 19.95 for a 640Kbps albeit time-limited amount. IIRC, the charge for the persistent session is about $10 more, so that lines up with what you're being charged. It looks, overall that if you're paying too much at all it's likely at the ISP, but by $5 at most. The data rate puzzles me, though, since I get 640Kbps down and 272 up, of which the only reduction in poor weather is the down-rate, which falls off to 512 K. Perhaps that will change over time. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Lane" To: Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 8:51 PM Subject: DSL Rate > I just figured out that someone asked me how much I was paying for my DSL > from Qwest. Forgive me, but I can't find who the original poster was. > > Anyway: Base rate for the line is $29.95/mo. Round to $30. > > Add to that $35/mo for Qwest.net (the ISP) to be the host. Includes web > space (which I no longer use) and mailboxes (which I won't be using much > longer). > > Finally, tack on $15/mo for a private block of eight static IP's. Three > are reserved to be the network, gateway, and broadcast addresses for my > subnet (I'm subnetted off a class A block), and five are user-definable, > function-wise. Subtract one more for the router interface, and that leaves > me four usable. > > Total: A little under $80/month for everything, and that includes a > guaranteed data rate of 256K down (I get 384 during rainy weather, and 512K > during dry), and 272K up. > > If anyone knows of another ISP that can give me my own subnet for > $50/month or less, and equivalent bandwidth, please say so. ;-) > > Hope that helps. > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) > "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be > superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 23 23:12:57 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Lifetime of VAX NiCd packs? Message-ID: <001e01c06d68$46ec94f0$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Chuck McManis >Does anyone know the approximate lifetime of the NiCd battery on a VAX when >it isn't turned on all the time? I've got several dead ones and it is The battery will be dead in about 3-4 weeks of non power. The problem with the cells is they develop internal shorts when sitting discharged. the trick of blasting them using a 100,000uf cap charged to 20-30V sometimes open those shorts. Replacement is any 3nicad pack over 100mAH that can be fitted in the available space. Nicad lifetime in use or discharged varies all over the map. Allison From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Dec 23 23:55:41 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Lifetime of VAX NiCd packs? In-Reply-To: <001e01c06d68$46ec94f0$bd769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001223215308.01f39a20@208.226.86.10> At 12:12 AM 12/24/00 -0500, Allison wrote: >The battery will be dead in about 3-4 weeks of non power. Sigh, I guessed as much. As long as your up late, do you happen to know the pinout of the audio-out connector on an RRD43 drive? Its also a Toshiba model xm4101b --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Sun Dec 24 00:31:15 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Lifetime of VAX NiCd packs? References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001223202416.02b6ceb0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <001f01c06d73$1e749f80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> First of all, you've gotta know that I know nothing about the machine in question, except that folks have learned a good deal about NiCd batteries since those were designed into the DEC application. Allison's right on the money with her proposal of discharging a hefty charge through a "grown-short" in the battery. The charger design I've liked best so far is one that uses a series capacitor rather than a resistor or whatever in series with the AC to charge the battery in a way that won't support the presence of those cillia that eventually short the cells. I built a switched constant-current sink to charge several batteries at once, with an average current equal to the maximum that the battery is supposed to source, but at a 10% duty cycle and 10 KHz. It's being compared right now by the guy who built the one with the cap just to see which one provides better results. The CAP design is MUCH simpler. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Saturday, December 23, 2000 9:25 PM Subject: Lifetime of VAX NiCd packs? > Does anyone know the approximate lifetime of the NiCd battery on a VAX when > it isn't turned on all the time? I've got several dead ones and it is > irritating to set the language and boot device every time. I've tried > "zapping" them, this brought one back but the other is quite dead. I've > almost have enough to put together one get pack from cells in the bad ones :-) > > --Chuck > > From spc at conman.org Sun Dec 24 00:34:24 2000 From: spc at conman.org (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: DSL Rate In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001223195101.0097bd50@pop.sttl.uswest.net> from "Bruce Lane" at Dec 23, 2000 07:51:01 PM Message-ID: <200012240634.BAA23495@conman.org> It was thus said that the Great Bruce Lane once stated: > > Finally, tack on $15/mo for a private block of eight static IP's. Three > are reserved to be the network, gateway, and broadcast addresses for my > subnet (I'm subnetted off a class A block), and five are user-definable, > function-wise. Subtract one more for the router interface, and that leaves > me four usable. Um, isn't the gateway the same as the router interface? I have a similar set up (subblock of 8, one network, one broadcast, one for gateway/router, leaving me five to play with). > Total: A little under $80/month for everything, and that includes a > guaranteed data rate of 256K down (I get 384 during rainy weather, and 512K > during dry), and 272K up. > > If anyone knows of another ISP that can give me my own subnet for > $50/month or less, and equivalent bandwidth, please say so. ;-) Try Velotel (http://www.velotel.com/). $65/month gets you DSL (guarenteed speed dependant upon distance from CO) and 5 static IP addresses, no restrictions on what you run over your connection. -spc (Very happy with them so far. Much less happy with Bell South) From marvin at rain.org Sun Dec 24 01:26:48 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Sol Computer Info References: <200012240634.BAA23495@conman.org> Message-ID: <3A45A538.61E1C27B@rain.org> I was really curious about that $3551.53 Sol computer a couple of weeks ago and went back to check on it. Seems that the bidder is NARU with the last three feedbacks negs. Something about teenagers and a stolen password. There is no feedback left on this item for buyer or seller and the computer hasn't been relisted so far. From optimus at canit.se Sun Dec 24 02:43:34 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person In-Reply-To: <3A438DB6.6340.20616B1@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Homa is a company based in Ottawa,Ontario. He sells some of the > German programs. I think one of them is "Pixel Graphics" . Or Photoline, the ST Photoshop clone. > There's also an inventive guy in New Zealand, Mario Becroft, who > makes various adapters such as one that allows you to use your > ST with an SVGA monitor. Anyone with a oldering iron can wire such an adaptor, but his recent developments are much more interesting - an IDE interface and now an 8MB VME graphics card with on-board ethernet. Speaking of ethernet, does anyone have an RTL800* based parallel ethernet adaptor they're willing to part with? From quapla at xs4all.nl Sun Dec 24 06:36:51 2000 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SMD drive cabling References: Message-ID: <3A45EDE3.6001@xs4all.nl> Tony Duell wrote: > > I would doubt it. From what I remmeber, RSX11M 4.x was about 3 RL02 packs or > 5 RL01 packs, or 1 RK07 pack. 3.x might be a bit smaller, but it would be > a squeeze to get it onto a single RL02, I think. Actually, the RSX11M 4.x distribution kit comes on 5 RL02 packs or 7 RL01 packs. The RK07 distibution is on 1 disk and the last form is on 2 9 track tapes. > I assume you know about the physical cabling. There's one 60 way ribbon > that links the control connectors on all the drives back to the > controller -- the furthest drive from the controller has a terminator > fitted. And there's a separate 26 way data/radial cable from each drive > back to the controller. I have 2 Fujitsu SMD's as well, with the 68 way ribbon cable placed between both drives (a sort of Y cable arrangement). Regarding making a bootable RSX system on one of these drives, you can do it using the following steps. (I do not know how well you know RSX, so maybe I overdetail the steps) Boot from the RL02 (> is the MCR prompt) > ins $ini #if already installed, ignore the warning > ins $pip # ditto > ins $bad # ditto > run bad bad>db0:/li #lists bad blocks (if found) bad>^Z > ini db0:RSX11M # initializes the disk and labels it > pip db0:[*,*]/nv/uf/fo=dl0:[*,*]*.* > asn db0:=sy: > asn db0:=lb: > set /uic=[1,54] > pip rsx11m.sys/co/nv/bl:498.=rsx11m.tsk > rem vmr > rem boo > ins db0:$vmr > ins db0:$boo > vmr @sysvmr > boo [1,54]rsx11m Boot information is displayed, and an XDT prompt will show XDT>g > tim 12:00 01-jan-90 # RSX below 4.7 is not Y2K compliant! > sav /wb # saves the booted system and builds the # bootblock on block 0 of the SMD disk The system will reboot automatically and you now have a running RSX environment on your larger disk. Emulex did made the SMD Unibus boards (others probably too), in my machine I have the Emulex board, and it can control 4 SMD disks. Alternatively, to build your CDC disk, if it can be connected to your 11/73, then you can copy RSX from the other disk to the new disk, and make it so ready for use. There might however be a little problem on behaviour of the 11/73 generated RSX environment compared to the 11/44 processor (cpu behaviour). Merry Xmas, Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! From quapla at xs4all.nl Sun Dec 24 06:49:51 2000 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Board ID needed References: Message-ID: <3A45F0EF.187@xs4all.nl> A good day to all, I have found a board of which I would like to know where it is used for. It seems to be made by ACT, and has the following numbers, 10046001 REV C, 10046002 REV C, 10046-0. It is a hex slot board, and there are two 50 pin connectors on top. Above the A/B slots, there are 2 connectors where a regular(?) dual card can be placed in. There are no special chips other than the regular 74xx types. +------------------------------+ | xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx | | J1 J2 | | +-======-======-+ | | | | | s | | s | | s s | | s s | +xxxxxx--xxxxxx--xxxxxx--xxxxxx--xxxxxx--xxxxxx+ |||||| |||||| |||||| |||||| |||||| |||||| s = switch pack Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! From quapla at xs4all.nl Sun Dec 24 06:57:30 2000 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Switch settings References: Message-ID: <3A45F2BA.6AD@xs4all.nl> Another question to ask, I got an Unibus SCSI card, and I know that it can be configured as either a tape controller or a disk controller. Currently it is configured as a disk controller, but I would like to know which switch settings change it into a tape controller. There is are 2 switch banks on the card, one with 10 switches, and one with 4 switches, which is placed at the top. Furthermore, there are 4 jumpers which can be set/removed. BTW, the card is an Emulex UC17. It works perfectly, yesterday I did build RSX 4.6 onto an Iomega jazz drive. It only uses 600Mb out of the 1Gb though. Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 23 21:14:17 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SMD drive cabling In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: PDP-11 SMD drive cabling" (Dec 24, 1:58) References: Message-ID: <10012240314.ZM2984@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 24, 1:58, Tony Duell wrote: > > Now then, I've got an RL02 pack labeled RSX-11M, which I'm hoping > > contains a complete RSX-11M distribution. If I can get an RL02 > > I would doubt it. From what I remmeber, RSX11M 4.x was about 3 RL02 packs or > 5 RL01 packs, or 1 RK07 pack. 3.x might be a bit smaller, but it would be > a squeeze to get it onto a single RL02, I think. You can get a working system on one RL02, you can get a minimal working system onto a pair of RX03s (double-sided RX02), you can just barely get a bootable system onto a pair of RX02s (I've done all of the above). However, the distribution comes on five RL02s, of which you need at least two (maybe three, it's a long time since I did a SYSGEN) to build a working system. 3.x is indeed smaller -- I've seen several systems with all the system required on an RL01 and user data on a second one. > > controller board for the 11/73, will there be any problem with just > > connecting one of the SMD cables to the CDC drive and copying RSX-11M The bootstrap will be different, and what you need to do will depend on what your controller emulates -- it could be multiple RL02s, a few RK06s or RK07s, or a couple of RM02s. Or possibly other things; it will depend on the controller. Even if the boot block were the same (some drive types shared the same boot block), you still need the driver and that probably isn't present on a working RL02 pack unless the original system had both types of drive. It might be on your 11/73's disks, if you have RSX on there. As for booting from "any PDP-11", no it will depend on how the system was built. It will depend on the machine having at least as much memory as the original, whether it was built "mapped" or "unmapped" (memory management), and whether it was built for separate I&D space. Other differences will probably generate error messages, but as far as I remember won't stop it booting. I'm sure someone else asked about this on the list a year or two ago; it might be worth looking through the archive. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Dec 24 06:59:07 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: DSL Rate In-Reply-To: <200012240634.BAA23495@conman.org> References: <3.0.5.32.20001223195101.0097bd50@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001224045907.0097ec70@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 01:34 24-12-2000 -0500, you wrote: > Um, isn't the gateway the same as the router interface? I have a similar >set up (subblock of 8, one network, one broadcast, one for gateway/router, >leaving me five to play with). I meant the router on my LAN. Here's a quick ASCII... TelcoLine==Cisco675DSU==MyRouter==MyLAN The 675, based on its configuration, presents the following subnet on its Ethernet port. 63.226.233.136 (Reserved, Network) 63.226.233.137 (User-assignable, assigned to the Ethernet port on 'MyRouter' by yours truly). 63.226.233.138 - 141 (User-Assignable, various machines) .142 = Default gateway address on the Cisco side (Reserved). .143 = Broadcast (Reserved) Does that make a little more sense? As for Velotel: Thanks for the word. I will look them over. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From mark_k at iname.com Sun Dec 24 07:05:20 2000 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Fujitsu M3191F2 scanner Message-ID: Hi, Just within the 10-year rule, I have a Fujitsu M3191F2 flatbed scanner. Date code on the label is 1990-08. A label on the underside refers to it as an M3191C-IS. I guess this would have been pretty expensive when new. It has a SCSI interface, resolution is 300dpi greyscale. If anyone can assist with getting it to be recognised when connected to a PC via Adaptec SCSI card, please let me know. Fujitsu were of no help, though a German user manual is available on their web site. Using the Adaptec diagnostic program, the scanner is recognised. However it is not recognised under Win 95, even after rescanning the bus. On my Amiga it is not recognised initially, but is after I rescan the bus. I'd like to find a copy of the OEM manual for this scanner. BTW, I have dumped the data from all four EPROMs in the scanner (three of which were soldered directly to the board...). -- Mark From mark_k at iname.com Sun Dec 24 07:04:01 2000 From: mark_k at iname.com (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Old online service file areas Message-ID: Hi, Are the file areas or forums of any of the old online services still accessible? I'm thinking of Compuserve, BIX, AOL and any others. They probably (used to) contain many files which would be useful for older computers, but which are not available on the internet. A brief visit to the Compuserve web site didn't turn up anything interesting. Have all the old file areas/forums been deleted? Is it still possible to access any of the online services using a text-based interface? This question arose from reading the document at http://www.dateq.net/ftp/CD-DRIVE/HITACHI/HIHELP.TXT That contains info on old Hitachi CD-ROM drives, including ones which use a proprietary interface. [Related to this, the most recent MS-DOS drivers for old Hitachi CD-ROM drives are available from Hitachi's USA BBS but not their web site. I uploaded the file to http://home.clara.net/markk/Hitachi/8bit.zip] Anyway, part of the HIHELP.TXT file reads: Filename: HIHELP.TXT Written Feb 93 REVISED 01Jan94 10Aug94 For CIS distribution only - Permission required for publication elsewhere. So this file was originally available on Compuserve. Is it still there? -- Mark From dogas at bellsouth.net Sun Dec 24 08:30:28 2000 From: dogas at bellsouth.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions References: <200012231918.OAA07616@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <003601c06db6$10a6dba0$38784ed8@DOMAIN> I'm glad this thread came up. I have a WT/78. Is it the same machine as the VT/78? And also having a RX-02 and no interconnecting cable or software, I eagerly await the pinout specs too and have an outstanding wish for software. Thanks and Happy Holidays everyone - Mike: dogas@bellsouth.net From rdd at smart.net Sun Dec 24 09:19:09 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SMD drive cabling In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Dec 2000, R. D. Davis wrote: > it's only a few feet away from my 11/73 and 11/44. The 11/73, running > RT-11 and RSX-11, already has two, much smaller, 8" Fujitsu SMD drives > in it. Oops... big mistake in my original message: RT-11 and TSX11+ are what exist on my 11/73; I guess that error was a result of wishful thinking about RSX-11. :-) There's no RSX-11 on any of my systems, and I'm not at all failiar with installing it (or using it, beyond having looked at my manual set and briefly using it from a guest account on magica a while back)... however, it looks like the closest thing to VMS on a PDP-11, so I want to install it on another disk, but don't want to get rid of RT-11 and TSX+. :-) -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From gaz_k at lineone.net Tue Dec 19 17:27:17 2000 From: gaz_k at lineone.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Atari questions from non-Atari person References: <1091.388T700T12284097optimus@canit.se> Message-ID: <002c01c06dbe$092afd40$0101010a@pentium2> Iggy Drougge wrote: > >I meant PC magazines. I saw Calamus 9x on the cover of Computer Music. As > > Computer Music? Why Calamus? Erm... because I haven't taken my brain medicine today.. I mean Computer Publishing (R.I.P). -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | Team Amiga | http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress | From ncherry at home.net Sun Dec 24 09:34:09 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: DSL Rate References: <3.0.5.32.20001223195101.0097bd50@pop.sttl.uswest.net> <3.0.5.32.20001224045907.0097ec70@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3A461771.B9C5C8FD@home.net> Bruce Lane wrote: > > At 01:34 24-12-2000 -0500, you wrote: > > > Um, isn't the gateway the same as the router interface? I have a similar > >set up (subblock of 8, one network, one broadcast, one for gateway/router, > >leaving me five to play with). > > I meant the router on my LAN. Here's a quick ASCII... > > TelcoLine==Cisco675DSU==MyRouter==MyLAN > > The 675, based on its configuration, presents the following subnet on its > Ethernet port. > > 63.226.233.136 (Reserved, Network) > 63.226.233.137 (User-assignable, assigned to the Ethernet port on > 'MyRouter' by yours truly). > 63.226.233.138 - 141 (User-Assignable, various machines) > .142 = Default gateway address on the Cisco side (Reserved). > .143 = Broadcast (Reserved) > > Does that make a little more sense? > > As for Velotel: Thanks for the word. I will look them over. Let me repeat what 'You' wrote: Um, isn't the gateway the same as the router interface? Now let me point out what I'm used to seeing. The network 63.226.233.136 has 8 IP addresses reserved for it. The first and the last are reserved (both are for broadcast, network and broadcast). The first host is network +1 the last is network +6. This is what I'd expect: ---+ +-+ +--------+ ISP|------| |---| Host 1 | ---+ |H| +--------+ |U| : |B| +--------+ | |---| Host 5 | +-+ +--------+ This is what you've told me: ---+ +----------+ +-+ +--------+ ISP|--| MyRouter |----| |---| Host 1 | ---+ +----------+ |H| +--------+ |U| : |B| +--------+ | |---| Host 5 | +-+ +--------+ Normally the IP's between the Myrouter and the ISP's routers would be one network and the IP's between Myrouter and the rest of the network would be another. That is unless Myrouter can do firewalling with bridging instead of routing. My network at home is setup in a similar way. I have a 24 network between My router and the ISP and I have a 192.168.x.x, 172.16.x.x, and a 10.x.x.x network behind my router. Myrouter does Network Address Translation (or IP Masquerading). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Dec 24 11:01:36 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: DSL Rate In-Reply-To: <3A461771.B9C5C8FD@home.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20001223195101.0097bd50@pop.sttl.uswest.net> <3.0.5.32.20001224045907.0097ec70@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001224090136.0097ee70@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 10:34 24-12-2000 -0500, Neil Cherry wrote: >Let me repeat what 'You' wrote: Um, isn't the gateway the same as the >router interface? Not to my mind. My router, having two Ethernet ports, must have an IP address for each of those ports. In order to be a part of the subnet on the Cisco side, the port attached to it must have an IP address out of the 63.226 block I've been assigned. Ergo, that address is not available for a machine. Yes, my router does full 1:1 NAT mapping and firewalling. The Cisco is not capable of anything near as sophisticated, so I'm simply using it for its DSU features. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Dec 24 11:28:14 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: DSL Rate In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001224090136.0097ee70@pop.sttl.uswest.net> References: <3A461771.B9C5C8FD@home.net> <3.0.5.32.20001223195101.0097bd50@pop.sttl.uswest.net> <3.0.5.32.20001224045907.0097ec70@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001224092442.0292c290@208.226.86.10> At 09:01 AM 12/24/00 -0800, Bruce wrote: > Not to my mind. My router, having two Ethernet ports, must have an IP >address for each of those ports. In order to be a part of the subnet on the >Cisco side, the port attached to it must have an IP address out of the >63.226 block I've been assigned. Ergo, that address is not available for a >machine. But the router actually can use the *same* IP address on both sides. This is running in what is known as 'unnumbered' mode. Since the diagram looks like this: +-------------+ | | ISP +----------+ A Router B +-------> LAN | | +-------------+ Both interfaces A and B do not need unique IP addresses. They need only one, since everything coming in port B that isn't for the local subnet goes out port A and everything from the ISP is logically appearing at port B. The the router to ISP path is a point-to-point link this works great. --Chuck From ncherry at home.net Sun Dec 24 12:02:49 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: DSL Rate References: <3.0.5.32.20001223195101.0097bd50@pop.sttl.uswest.net> <3.0.5.32.20001224045907.0097ec70@pop.sttl.uswest.net> <3.0.5.32.20001224090136.0097ee70@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3A463A49.DD7B1C48@home.net> Bruce Lane wrote: > > At 10:34 24-12-2000 -0500, Neil Cherry wrote: > > >Let me repeat what 'You' wrote: Um, isn't the gateway the same as the > >router interface? > > Not to my mind. My router, having two Ethernet ports, must have an IP > address for each of those ports. In order to be a part of the subnet on the > Cisco side, the port attached to it must have an IP address out of the > 63.226 block I've been assigned. Ergo, that address is not available for a > machine. > > Yes, my router does full 1:1 NAT mapping and firewalling. The Cisco is not > capable of anything near as sophisticated, so I'm simply using it for its > DSU features. (From a previous message:) > The 675, based on its configuration, presents the following subnet > on its Ethernet port. > > 63.226.233.136 (Reserved, Network) > 63.226.233.137 (User-assignable, assigned to the Ethernet port on > 'MyRouter' by yours truly). > 63.226.233.138 - 141 (User-Assignable, various machines) > .142 = Default gateway address on the Cisco side (Reserved). > .143 = Broadcast (Reserved) B A /-----------------\ ---+ +-+ +-+ +-+ +--------+ ISP|--|C|---|M|----| |---| Host 1 | <- .138 ---+ |i| |y| |H| +--------+ |s| |R| |U| : |c| |t| |B| +--------+ |o| |r| | |---| Host 5 | <- .141 +-+ +-+ +-+ +--------+ | | | | | \-> No IP (not really needed) | \-> .137 (2 interfaces 1 address?) \-> .142 .136 - reserved, All zeroes broadcast or network (AKA the wire number) .143 - reserved, All ones broadcast OK this tells me that MyRouter is acting as a bridge (at layer 3 they're the same network). Can MyRouter act as firewall and be a bridge? Because I've done a good job of confusing myself let me ask a really dumb question. Do you have this working now? My background in network tells me this shouldn't work. My background in computers tells me that there is a way to make this work but requires inventiveness on the part of MyRouter. I have no trouble with everything connected to the hub. My confusion starts at the MyRouter device, if it is just a router, then this won't work. If it can firewall/bridge then you're OK. If it's a layer 3 switch/ firwall then you're OK, uhmm I guess ;-). Technology don't you just love it! -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ncherry at home.net Sun Dec 24 12:06:25 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: DSL Rate References: <3A461771.B9C5C8FD@home.net> <3.0.5.32.20001223195101.0097bd50@pop.sttl.uswest.net> <3.0.5.32.20001224045907.0097ec70@pop.sttl.uswest.net> <5.0.0.25.2.20001224092442.0292c290@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3A463B21.27F9EA68@home.net> Chuck McManis wrote: > > At 09:01 AM 12/24/00 -0800, Bruce wrote: > > Not to my mind. My router, having two Ethernet ports, must have an IP > >address for each of those ports. In order to be a part of the subnet on the > >Cisco side, the port attached to it must have an IP address out of the > >63.226 block I've been assigned. Ergo, that address is not available for a > >machine. > > But the router actually can use the *same* IP address on both sides. This > is running in what is known as 'unnumbered' mode. Since the diagram looks > like this: > > +-------------+ > | | > ISP +----------+ A Router B +-------> LAN > | | > +-------------+ > > Both interfaces A and B do not need unique IP addresses. They need only > one, since everything coming in port B that isn't for the local subnet goes > out port A and everything from the ISP is logically appearing at port B. > > The the router to ISP path is a point-to-point link this works great. > > --Chuck I've never used Unnumbered (I forgot about that!), this is sorta, kinda, maybe like a layer 3 switch. :-) I'll need to look that up, it could be a very useful tool. Thanks -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 24 12:02:44 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Lifetime of VAX NiCd packs? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001223202416.02b6ceb0@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Dec 23, 0 08:25:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1902 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001224/5505e1ce/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Dec 24 12:16:43 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Old online service file areas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001224121301.0267a500@pc> At 01:04 PM 12/24/00 +0000, you wrote: >They probably (used to) contain many files which would be useful for older >computers, but which are not available on the internet. A good question. I'd abandoned CIS for the Net five years ago or so, and haven't looked back. CIS et alia were very protective of their library collections. At least while they mattered to the world, they didn't want them to appear in toto on BBSes, CDs, etc. And now, probably, they are gone. It's not so long you might think a backup exists somewhere. In a few hours of phone calls, you might ferret out someone within CIS who would admit they exist. However, converting them to a useful format might be tough. You'd want both the file(s) as well as the ~1K text description of each file. - John From jrasite at eoni.com Sun Dec 24 13:14:00 2000 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: [Fwd: a JPL Christmas] Message-ID: <3A464AD9.2238C475@eoni.com> Seeing that a number of us have either worked with these folks or *are* these folks... Best of the Season! Jim Arnott Union, OR -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Jim Arnott Subject: a JPL Christmas Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 10:53:15 -0800 Size: 5753 Url: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001224/bad9bc88/attachment.mht From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sun Dec 24 13:19:00 2000 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey LL Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Paging Mike McFadden Message-ID: <20001224.111901.-251163.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Mike: Could you contact me via private e-mail at: jeff.kaneko@juno.com? Thanks! Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From dburrows at netpath.net Sun Dec 24 13:55:53 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: PDP-11 SMD drive cabling Message-ID: <007501c06de3$8bfa62e0$a652e780@L166> >When I get the intermittent CPU problem on the 11/44 fixed, and find a >UNIBUS SMD controller, can I just attach the CDC drive to the 11/44 and >have it boot and go, or will I need to reconfigure something? That all depends on the controller in both systems. I have Emulex and Xylogics SMD controllers here and they are not interchangeable. Data is written differently. I have used Emulex in both Unibus and Qbus systems and they are compatible for data. System disks are another matter. Dan From dburrows at netpath.net Sun Dec 24 13:49:40 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:52 2005 Subject: Switch settings Message-ID: <007401c06de3$8b1e5ac0$a652e780@L166> If you look at: ftp://zane.brouhaha.com/pub/dan/emulex_uc07_08/ you will find just about everything you need. The UC07/08 is the Qbus version but the switch settings and firmware is the same for both. I have several here and use them in my test beds. If you need anything else from the manuals let me know and I will post them as well. If you upgrade your firmware to M or P it will support CD's as well. The HEX files are there as well. BTW: Thanks go to Zane for hosting this stuff for me. Dan >Another question to ask, I got an Unibus SCSI card, and I know that >it can be configured as either a tape controller or a disk controller. >Currently it is configured as a disk controller, but I would like >to know which switch settings change it into a tape controller. > >There is are 2 switch banks on the card, one with 10 switches, and >one with 4 switches, which is placed at the top. Furthermore, there >are 4 jumpers which can be set/removed. > >BTW, the card is an Emulex UC17. > >It works perfectly, yesterday I did build RSX 4.6 onto an Iomega >jazz drive. It only uses 600Mb out of the 1Gb though. > >Thanks, > >Ed > >-- >The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. >quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: >zakkenvullers >http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. >Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | >'97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Dec 24 14:15:56 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Lifetime of VAX NiCd packs? Message-ID: <005b01c06de8$36578700$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Chuck McManis >At 12:12 AM 12/24/00 -0500, Allison wrote: >>The battery will be dead in about 3-4 weeks of non power. > >Sigh, I guessed as much. As long as your up late, do you happen to know the With 8 uVAXen around the batteries are a known item. Also the PRO and a few others used same battery. If you blast them run them through a few charge/dischage cycles and they hold up fine. Not if there is much fuzz on the outside then they have leaked and may have dried out, that is a replace case. >pinout of the audio-out connector on an RRD43 drive? Its also a Toshiba >model xm4101b Never had one of data on it. Allison From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Dec 24 15:26:41 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Audio on the Toshiba/RRD43 CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <005b01c06de8$36578700$bd769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001224131951.02a74860@208.226.86.10> Merry Christmas everyone, and for those who don't celebrate that particular event, Greetings, I've put an RRD43 that was apparently scavenged from DEC system long ago into a shiny new enclosure with a removable disk drive. Yes the RRD43 is only 2x but it is "known" to DEC hardware and you don't need a caddy with it. (On a related note I now have a 1x VAX compatible (RRD42 like) CD-ROM drive available for trade that does take a caddy :-) I'd like to connect up the audio outs for completeness and I've run into a snag, no docs on which pins are what. The Toshiba mechanism is the XM-4401B and all the web references I have found on it only describe the speeds etc but not the pin out of the audio connector on the back. It is a white connector with four vertical pins on the left side (when looking at the SCSI connector). If anyone has this information or a pointer to it that would be great. --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 24 15:49:25 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Audio on the Toshiba/RRD43 CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001224131951.02a74860@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Dec 24, 0 01:26:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 785 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001224/ee86f4fd/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Dec 24 15:38:08 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Finite State Fantasies Book - now On-line! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/historic_pubs.htm > >and scroll all the way to the bottom. Let me know what you think! Weird, very 70's style, but I read the whole thing. ;) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Dec 24 16:22:52 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Audio on the Toshiba/RRD43 CD-ROM In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001224131951.02a74860@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001224141644.02b8b050@208.226.86.10> At 09:49 PM 12/24/00 +0000, Tony wrote: >I have an XM-4101B CD-ROM here (ex-SUN IIRC) and it's got a similar >connector on it. Thanks Tony! Now I can button up the case :-) Given the cold snap its come in handy to have a few VAXen fired up around the house. If I was just creative enough to come up with a new Christmas song ... VAX box booting from a TK-50, VAX box booting from its ROM, PDP-8s with their lights all a-glow, will find it hard to halt tonight. --Chuck From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Dec 24 17:14:37 2000 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: OT Pen-Based collectables Message-ID: <48.f440934.2777dd5d@aol.com> Just got in several pen based computers. They all seem to date from about 1995 so they are Off Topic but this is the best collectors group out there for information One is a Kalidor K2000, a very nice small ruggedized computer. I love it. This one doesn't have its power supply so I have yet to get it to power up. Does anyone know if the power connector is center positive or negative? It says it needs DC 15V, 1.3A. Any Websites? Software out there? I guess the company is out of business. Does anyone know what happened to it. Who might have bought it. There is also a Norand Pen*Key 6600 Windows that seems to be related to Intermec, the bar code people. This one had it's charging base and powers up as a DOS device. I couldn't find anything out about it but that there are new versions 6642 still avaliable..This was in Intermec's site. Any others? Software? It dates to 96 and I think has a i80486 for the processor. There is also a Dauphin with a broken glass, maybe display. I haven't looked at it yet. I found the Dauphin parts site. The fourth was a Grid 2260 that I also have powered up. It is a little rough but works. Boots to the password. Does anyone know how to get past it without a boot diskette. I haven't looked yet for websites but I think Grid stuff will be easier to find. My Surplus dealer actually got in about 4 Grids, I just brought one of them home to look at. I don't know what the others are but I suspect the same. Since this is OT please contact me off line unless it is info that all would be interested in. Thanks for the help. Paxton Portland, OR From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 24 18:10:59 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: OT : Merry Christmas/Newtonsday Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 385 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001225/27edd9af/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 24 20:31:04 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: "Mike" "Re: VT78 - lots of questions" (Dec 24, 9:30) References: <200012231918.OAA07616@drs-esg.com> <003601c06db6$10a6dba0$38784ed8@DOMAIN> Message-ID: <10012250231.ZM6632@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 24, 9:30, Mike wrote: > I'm glad this thread came up. I have a WT/78. Is it the same machine as > the VT/78? And also having a RX-02 and no interconnecting cable or > software, I eagerly await the pinout specs too and have an outstanding wish > for software. As far as I know, they're the same thing, just sold with different operating software. I'm now sure I don't have the floppies that "belonged" to mine. They may be at a friend's place, but I won't be able to tell until after the holidays. So, I guess I'll have to download some from David's site, but before I do that, I'll have to figure out which PC with which floppy controller can read/write my 8" drives, and before *that* there are several other logistical problems to sort out. So it may be a while. However, I did check the RX02 printset and the RX8E Maintenance Manual, and I see that the RX8E (and RX28, RX11, and RXV11) only passes 9 signals to the M7744 (which is the microprogrammed controller in the RX02). The RXV21 and RX211 use two more: the RX DMA and RX AC signals. These 9 signals (with corresponding grounds) happen to be every second pair (pins A/B up to PP/RR) along the Berg connector so it would be logical to assume that they match the pairs, in order, connected to my D-connectors, which have exactly 18 pins fitted. I'll give it a try when I've cleared some more space. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From edick at idcomm.com Sun Dec 24 21:31:09 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: printer manuals References: <200012231918.OAA07616@drs-esg.com> <003601c06db6$10a6dba0$38784ed8@DOMAIN> <10012250231.ZM6632@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <000701c06e23$1fee5e40$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I stumbled into a binder of printer manuals today. Among them are: Toshiba P1350 QUME Sprint 5 Anadex 9500.9501, both user and tech maunal Also, IIRC, there are a couple of terminal manuals as well. One of them is the Visual 50. I also have a Visual 200 manual somewhere, I think. I seem to be getting close ... Let me know if there's a rush, but I will probably scan some/all for eventual post on Eric Smith's site. Dick From djg at drs-esg.com Sun Dec 24 22:41:08 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions Message-ID: <200012250441.XAA07782@drs-esg.com> >From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) >I assume that the difference between RX8E (= RXV11/RX11) mode, and RX28 >mode, is the denisty supported? ie, RX28 mode makes the drives behave as >RX02 rather than RX01? Did'nt I read somewhere that some VT78s (or was it > only DECmates?) can use RX02 mode? > For the PDP-8 it is mostly a software issue. I tried booting the VT78 from a RX02 in RX28 mode and it worked with a RX02 version of OS/8. >Well, before I go that far, I might try to get 8" drives running on an old >PC that has an XT controler which *should* do SD, I think. Can I use >something like PUTR to create a disk that way? > I think so if the floppy chip supports SD. I have not tried. From: "Mike" > >I'm glad this thread came up. I have a WT/78. Is it the same machine as >the VT/78? And also having a RX-02 and no interconnecting cable or >software, I eagerly await the pinout specs too and have an outstanding wish >for software. > >From what I understand they were basically the same thing except the ROM module that plugs on the back may support different things but I am not really familiar with the models. WD was listed as a WS with COS support. WS may only work with WPS. I didn't see a WT. Do you have anything else to write to the RX02 from? If so you can write my images, if not I can make you a copy, email me if needed. I will buzz out the VT78 floppy cable. This is the pinout I got by buzzing out the adapter cable I made to go from the DB25 on my RX02 to the 40 pin cable from the RX8E. If the pinout was in a document I can't find it, I may of gotten the pinout by buzzing out the cable in the drive. Pins 10,11,23, and 24 are not connected in the cable from my VT78 but pin 25 is present. I don't remember why my adapter cable has extra pins connected. DB25 40 pin header 1 3 C 14 4 D 2 7 E 15 8 F 3 11 M 16 12 N 4 15 S 17 16 T 5 19 W 18 20 X 6 25 CC 19 24 BB 7 27 EE 20 28 FF 8 31 KK 21 32 LL 9 35 PP 22 36 RR 10 37 SS 23 38 TT 11 39 UU 24 40 VV 12,13,25 Not connected. 40 pin connector is numbered 1 (A) 39 (UU) 2 (B) 40 (VV) From gaz_k at lineone.net Sun Dec 24 10:00:27 2000 From: gaz_k at lineone.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Vintage Ads References: <3A1A4E59.948.2D71E9@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Nov 21, 2000 10:28:41 am" <3A1AC207.25806.6B9A53@localhost> Message-ID: <000001c06e5d$4c348c60$0101010a@pentium2> http://www.sbrowning.com/vintage/ vintage computer adverts -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide | Team Amiga | http://amiga.emugaming.com | BenchPress | From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 25 04:27:42 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: OT Pen-Based collectables In-Reply-To: <48.f440934.2777dd5d@aol.com> Message-ID: >The fourth was a Grid 2260 that I also have powered up. It is a little rough >but works. Boots to the password. Does anyone know how to get past it without It totally sucks, but after a fair amount of searching it looks like all Grid owners are SOL. Apparently AST bought grid at some point, and when AST went down the toilet the program or file they looked at to get the passwords got lost. I have two or three Grids, 1750 I think, that work fine, except no password to allow booting from the floppy and a restore. I've even toyed with the idea of doing something to the hard drive by taking it out and putting it in another machine, or maybe cloning the roms in a Tandy machine and putting them in a cooresponding Grid. What could be more frustrating that a usefull class portable with good batteries and no password? Now I wish I had picked the "Tandy's" out of the scrapyard box instead of the Grids. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 25 04:30:23 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: David Gesswein "Re: VT78 - lots of questions" (Dec 24, 23:41) References: <200012250441.XAA07782@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <10012251030.ZM18179@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 24, 23:41, David Gesswein wrote: > >From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) > > I tried booting the VT78 > from a RX02 in RX28 mode and it worked with a RX02 version of OS/8. Useful to know - thanks! > >Well, before I go that far, I might try to get 8" drives running on an old > >PC that has an XT controler which *should* do SD, I think. Can I use > >something like PUTR to create a disk that way? > > > I think so if the floppy chip supports SD. I have not tried. It might take a while to find a working permutation of PC/controller, but that might be a viable solution for me. > This is the pinout I got by buzzing out the adapter cable I made to go > from the DB25 on my RX02 to the 40 pin cable from the RX8E. > If the pinout was in a document I can't find it, I may of > gotten the pinout by buzzing out the cable in the drive. > Pins 10,11,23, and 24 are not connected in the cable from my VT78 but > pin 25 is present. I don't remember why my adapter cable has > extra pins connected. > > DB25 40 pin header > 1 3 C > 14 4 D > 2 7 E > 15 8 F Um, by your numbering scheme, 7 and 8 are H and J, not E and F. > 10 37 SS > 23 38 TT > 11 39 UU > 24 40 VV > > 12,13,25 Not connected. TT is DRV AC L and VV is RX DMA INTR L. These are the extra connections used by RX211 and RXV21 controllers, and I expect RX28 also uses RX DMA INTR L. > 40 pin connector is numbered > > 1 (A) 39 (UU) > 2 (B) 40 (VV) ObNitpick: That's the reverse of the conventional numbering; Berg connectors with letters have the red stripe at the A end, which is on the left of the pin header (looking into the pins) while all other headers which are numbered have pin 1 on the right. Merry Christmas! -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Dec 25 08:59:21 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Old online service file areas Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3FC@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> I do still have an original floppy containing a DOS client for AOL, and something a little earlier- AOL either used to call their server PC-LINK or PC-LINK was a seperate service offered by AOL to users of Tandy's DeskMate software. But a friend who was the early AOL adopter from whom I got these disks told me that the reason he had to upgrade to a PC that was Windows- capable was that AOl was discontinuing the DOS-mode service. Whether DOS-mode meant text mode or not, I'm not sure. As to the file collections, I was a CompuServe and BIX user from '85 to '87, and most of the CP/M stuff was the same, most of the Mac stuff was the same, etc. I can think of one notable exception that I preserved- source code for a threaded BIXMail reader, written in DigiTalk's version of Smalltalk. It was the forums that set the various services apart. I saved tons of message traffic, but I lost most of it through platform switches, crashes, early viruses, etc. I do still have some of the BIX Smalltalk forum traffic saved. What I wish I had were either printed or electronic sessions from my days as a user of Ward & Randy's BBS... Regards, -dq > ---------- > From: Mark > Reply To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: Sunday, December 24, 2000 8:04 AM > To: classiccmp > Subject: Old online service file areas > > Hi, > > Are the file areas or forums of any of the old online services still > accessible? I'm thinking of Compuserve, BIX, AOL and any others. > > They probably (used to) contain many files which would be useful for older > computers, but which are not available on the internet. > > A brief visit to the Compuserve web site didn't turn up anything > interesting. > Have all the old file areas/forums been deleted? Is it still possible to > access any of the online services using a text-based interface? > > > This question arose from reading the document at > http://www.dateq.net/ftp/CD-DRIVE/HITACHI/HIHELP.TXT > > That contains info on old Hitachi CD-ROM drives, including ones which use > a > proprietary interface. [Related to this, the most recent MS-DOS drivers > for > old Hitachi CD-ROM drives are available from Hitachi's USA BBS but not > their > web site. I uploaded the file to > http://home.clara.net/markk/Hitachi/8bit.zip] > > Anyway, part of the HIHELP.TXT file reads: > Filename: HIHELP.TXT > Written Feb 93 REVISED 01Jan94 10Aug94 > > For CIS distribution only - Permission required for publication > elsewhere. > > > So this file was originally available on Compuserve. Is it still there? > > > -- Mark > From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 25 09:42:30 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Old online service file areas In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3FC@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >I do still have an original floppy containing a DOS client for AOL, and >something a little earlier- AOL either used to call their server PC-LINK >or PC-LINK was a seperate service offered by AOL to users of Tandy's >DeskMate software. Actually PC-LINK was available to anyone at least in the early 90's. I was on it for a year or so, probably in the '91 timeframe. I was on a Twinhead 386sx laptop at the time. Of course I was also on Prodigy, GEnie, and Compuserve as well as various DC BBS's. I dumped most when I got on the Internet in early '92. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jhellige at earthlink.net Mon Dec 25 09:42:03 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Old online service file areas In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3FC@tegntserver.tegjeff .com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20001225104203.008fabc4@earthlink.net> At 09:59 AM 12/25/00 -0500, you wrote: >I do still have an original floppy containing a DOS client for AOL, and >something a little earlier- AOL either used to call their server PC-LINK >or PC-LINK was a seperate service offered by AOL to users of Tandy's >DeskMate software. And before it was AOL, it was QuantumLink for the C-64. I believe I still have one of the QuantumLink diskettes around somewhere. Jeff ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Power Computing PowerCurve, 288mhz G3, Mac OS 9 http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 Home Of The TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Mon Dec 25 10:18:11 2000 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Old online service file areas In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB3FC@tegntserver.tegjeff .com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20001225111659.00ae2b30@popmail.voicenet.com> At 09:59 AM 12/25/00 -0500, you wrote: >I do still have an original floppy containing a DOS client for AOL, and >something a little earlier- AOL either used to call their server PC-LINK >or PC-LINK was a seperate service offered by AOL to users of Tandy's >DeskMate software. AOL started out as Quantum Link or Q-Link and was for Commodore computers. I still have the original BETA software on 5-1/4 for my VIC-20. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com P.O. Box 3365 Spring Hill Florida 34611-3365 http://www.voicenet.com/~generic Computer & Video Game Garage Sale From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Dec 25 10:48:28 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Old online service file areas In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20001225111659.00ae2b30@popmail.voicenet.com> from Gene Ehrich at "Dec 25, 0 11:18:11 am" Message-ID: <200012251648.IAA09624@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > At 09:59 AM 12/25/00 -0500, you wrote: > >I do still have an original floppy containing a DOS client for AOL, and > >something a little earlier- AOL either used to call their server PC-LINK > >or PC-LINK was a seperate service offered by AOL to users of Tandy's > >DeskMate software. > > AOL started out as Quantum Link or Q-Link and was for Commodore computers. > I still have the original BETA software on 5-1/4 for my VIC-20. Now that would be something to see! Ever considered turning it into a D64? I'd be happy to help you convert it. I've got about a million QLink clientdisks myself. Somewhere else I think I have PlayNet, which was one of the services Steve Case absorbed to form the "modern" QLink. Still haven't forgiven him for leaving Commodore users high and dry. >:-/ Merry Christmas, all, -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- A different taste in jokes is a great strain on the affections. -- G. Eliot From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Dec 25 11:04:39 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Audio on the Toshiba/RRD43 CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001224141644.02b8b050@208.226.86.10> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001224131951.02a74860@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001225110251.0274c690@pc> At 02:22 PM 12/24/00 -0800, you wrote: >Thanks Tony! Now I can button up the case :-) Given the cold snap Cold? Cold? Upper 30s F, cold? Feh! It's been so cold 'round here, when I fetch the eggs from the barn, the shells pop and crack. - John From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Dec 25 11:27:37 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: OT: Cold? Re: Audio on the Toshiba/RRD43 CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001225110251.0274c690@pc> Message-ID: > Cold? Cold? Upper 30s F, cold? Feh! It's been > so cold 'round here, when I fetch the eggs from the > barn, the shells pop and crack. COLD?? I'll call it "cold" when there's frost on the Pentium! OT: How many saw the partial eclipse? Happy Humbug! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 25 11:38:42 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Cold? Re: Audio on the Toshiba/RRD43 CD-ROM References: Message-ID: <001101c06e99$8658ebc0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> It's snowing in Denver, so we couldn't make any observation even if we were willing to freeze. Mery Christmas! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)" To: Sent: Monday, December 25, 2000 10:27 AM Subject: OT: Cold? Re: Audio on the Toshiba/RRD43 CD-ROM > > Cold? Cold? Upper 30s F, cold? Feh! It's been > > so cold 'round here, when I fetch the eggs from the > > barn, the shells pop and crack. > > COLD?? > I'll call it "cold" when there's frost on the Pentium! > > > OT: How many saw the partial eclipse? > > Happy Humbug! > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 25 12:15:37 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: <10012250231.ZM6632@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Dec 25, 0 02:31:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1231 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001225/3834dd4e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 25 12:23:37 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: <10012251030.ZM18179@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Dec 25, 0 10:30:23 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 562 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001225/7cc5118e/attachment.ksh From SPEDRAJA at mail.ono.es Mon Dec 25 13:04:17 2000 From: SPEDRAJA at mail.ono.es (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: What can I do with one HP 9000-380 ? References: <200012251816.MAA78322@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <000901c06ea5$7d0ae8a0$7d952a3e@ecv01> Hello. I'm adquired recently one HP-9000 380 workstation. I'm pending to receive it. I'd like to know some details about this machine, or even an URL where I could get some info. The workstation appears to be not used in anytime. Thanks. Regards. ---------- Sergio Pedraja Administracion de Sistemas Division de Tecnologia Caja Cantabria Spain ---------- mailto: spedraja@casyc.es, spedraja@mail.ono.es ---------- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 25 18:36:45 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Audio on the Toshiba/RRD43 CD-ROM In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20001225110251.0274c690@pc> References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001224141644.02b8b050@208.226.86.10> <5.0.0.25.2.20001224131951.02a74860@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >>Thanks Tony! Now I can button up the case :-) Given the cold snap > >Cold? Cold? Upper 30s F, cold? Feh! It's been I kinda miss a little cold around Christmas, its been low 70's here in SoCal. The bad part is that its "Santa ana" season, desert wind that while fairly warm, is DRY DRY DRY. Too much static to pet the cat let alone work on a computer. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 25 17:20:31 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: VT78 - lots of questions" (Dec 25, 18:23) References: Message-ID: <10012252320.ZM6802@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 25, 18:23, Tony Duell wrote: > > TT is DRV AC L and VV is RX DMA INTR L. These are the extra connections > > used by RX211 and RXV21 controllers, and I expect RX28 also uses RX DMA > > INTR L. > > I don't think it doea. > > I believe that The RX8e card and the RX28 card are the same module -- an > M8357. They are the same -- I misread a diagram in the RX02 manual, which made me think the M8357 working as an RX28 could do DMA transfers. It can't. Only the RX211 and RXV21 use RX DMA INTR L. I'v just pulled the printset of that card (which, alas, says > nothing about the DB25 adapter), and the only pins shown on the schematic > are > > D : RX RUN L > H : RX INIT L > J : RX ERROR L > T : RX TRANSFER REQEUST L > X : RX DONE L > BB : RX DATA L > FF : RX 12 BIT L > RR : RX OUT L > LL : RX SHIFT L Interesting. I think where you wrote "H : RX INIT L", you mean "N". H is a ground, and the RX02 printset clearly shows N as RX INIT L. That agrees with the tracks I can see on the M7744. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 25 20:49:51 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: <10012252320.ZM6802@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Dec 25, 0 11:20:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 492 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001226/95b5c52d/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 26 01:08:59 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! In-Reply-To: <05e801c06b87$38972380$0c00000a@techcare.com> References: Message-ID: I looked in my keyboard bin and I have two SGI model 9500801 keyboards in pretty good condition, but no cables (that I noticed). From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 26 04:48:41 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Neat presents Message-ID: Top of my list is a copy of the PC Pocket Ref, neat pocket sized book with tons of data on PC parts etc. This book has nice lists including most if not all floppy drives, so I can make a mini-list with just the 3.5" 2.88MB drives to hunt for. From LFessen106 at aol.com Tue Dec 26 06:23:02 2000 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! Message-ID: <5e.50ce68a.2779e7a6@aol.com> In a message dated 12/26/00 2:15:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, mikeford@socal.rr.com writes: > I looked in my keyboard bin and I have two SGI model 9500801 keyboards in > pretty good condition, but no cables (that I noticed). > Do you think Sun KB cables would work? Actually, I could probably just make them as they use standard PS2 connectors... What do you think? -Linc Fessenden From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Dec 26 07:22:07 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! In-Reply-To: LFessen106@aol.com "Re: Old SGI's?!" (Dec 26, 7:23) References: <5e.50ce68a.2779e7a6@aol.com> Message-ID: <10012261322.ZM27123@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 26, 7:23, LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/26/00 2:15:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, > mikeford@socal.rr.com writes: > > > I looked in my keyboard bin and I have two SGI model 9500801 keyboards in > > pretty good condition, but no cables (that I noticed). > > > > Do you think Sun KB cables would work? I thought Sun cables were 8-pin miniDIN, not 6-pin? > Actually, I could probably just make > them as they use standard PS2 connectors... What do you think? Yes, you could -- but don't use ordinary PS/2 ready-made cables as they only have 4 or 5 pins connected, and the SGI systems use all six. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Tue Dec 26 12:28:36 2000 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Old SGI's?! In-Reply-To: <10012261322.ZM27123@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from Pete Turnbull at "Dec 26, 2000 01:22:07 pm" Message-ID: <20001226182840Z433644-6948+125@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > On Dec 26, 7:23, LFessen106@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 12/26/00 2:15:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > mikeford@socal.rr.com writes: > > > > > I looked in my keyboard bin and I have two SGI model 9500801 keyboards > in > > > pretty good condition, but no cables (that I noticed). > > > > > > > Do you think Sun KB cables would work? > > I thought Sun cables were 8-pin miniDIN, not 6-pin? The Sun cables don't work, they are 8 pin. > > > Actually, I could probably just make > > them as they use standard PS2 connectors... What do you think? > > Yes, you could -- but don't use ordinary PS/2 ready-made cables as they > only have 4 or 5 pins connected, and the SGI systems use all six. > I've not found standard PS/2 cables that work (at least not in stores). The stardard stock PS/2 cable have one female and one male connector, while the SGI needs two male connectors. I've ordered the cables from pccables.com, they have a cable that works and its less than $3 if I remember correctly. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From manney at hmcltd.net Tue Dec 26 18:33:17 2000 From: manney at hmcltd.net (manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Lots of Epson QX10 stuff, free for the taking! References: <20001226182840Z433644-6948+125@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: <005e01c06f9c$9bc78760$29e3cfd8@pavilion> Lots of Epson QX10 stuff -- about (8) systems, printers (if you want 'em), cables, software. Some original boxes and documentation. I do know he has Valdocs and CP/M, but I dunno what all he has. Some works, some doesn't (you know the drill). The owner is willing to give away free, provided you pick up. I'd be willing to package things up and mail them and mail if you give me enough of a sob story, but it's a pain -- but I don't want these to go in the dumpster. manney@hmcltd.net From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 26 19:19:23 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Lots of Epson QX10 stuff, free for the taking! In-Reply-To: <005e01c06f9c$9bc78760$29e3cfd8@pavilion> References: <20001226182840Z433644-6948+125@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: >Lots of Epson QX10 stuff -- about (8) systems, printers (if you want 'em), >cables, software. Some original boxes and documentation. I do know he has >Valdocs and CP/M, but I dunno what all he has. > >Some works, some doesn't (you know the drill). The owner is willing to give >away free, provided you pick up. > >I'd be willing to package things up and mail them and mail if you give me >enough of a sob story, but it's a pain -- but I don't want these to go in >the dumpster. > >manney@hmcltd.net Where are they? From pbboy at mindspring.com Wed Dec 27 00:39:16 2000 From: pbboy at mindspring.com (Robert) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: cross-country shopping Message-ID: <3A498E93.E326DCE1@mindspring.com> I'll be driving cross country in a few days and would like to stop by some thrift stores where i can find classic computers. Because of the weather I'll be taking I-10 most of the way, from the east to the west coast. Could anyone suggest some good spots? hopefully I can find something of interest. Thanks! robert From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 27 00:45:16 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Identifying 72-pin SIMMs Message-ID: I'm guessing this is Off-Topic, since I think 72-pin SIMMs are newer than 10 years (not really sure). However, I've no idea where else to ask about this. A friend of mine just sent me a pile of RAM that he'd been given and couldn't use. He was thinking the stuff was Parity, I'm not so sure. I was hoping to be able to use the stuff to bump up the RAM in some of my VMS boxes (Alpha's that require 72-pin True Parity RAM). Pile #1 (12 chips, 8 big & 4 smaller): SEC KMM53616000AK-6 KOREA 9632 Barcode 006-3301427 Pile #2 (12 chips, 8 big & 4 smaller): NEC MC- 428000A36BH-70 9350XE Piles 3 & 4 defininitly aren't. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Dec 27 01:57:15 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Identifying 72-pin SIMMs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001226235108.02b69720@208.226.86.10> At 10:45 PM 12/26/00 -0800, you wrote: >I'm guessing this is Off-Topic, since I think 72-pin SIMMs are newer than >10 years (not really sure). However, I've no idea where else to ask about >this. Prolly, but hey at least its about computers :-) >Pile #1 (12 chips, 8 big & 4 smaller): >SEC KMM53616000AK-6 >KOREA 9632 This site Identifies the above SIMM as 64M (16M x 36) so it looks like it is true parity but too many bits :-) >Barcode >006-3301427 > >Pile #2 (12 chips, 8 big & 4 smaller): >NEC >MC- 428000A36BH-70 >9350XE This site: Seems to indicate that these Simms are 16M (4MB x 36) Whereas this site: Has a similar number that is an 8M parity simm for a PS2. Google is your friend ... --Chuck From jate at uwasa.fi Wed Dec 27 02:30:02 2000 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Hermanni Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: What can I do with one HP 9000-380 ? In-Reply-To: <000901c06ea5$7d0ae8a0$7d952a3e@ecv01>; from SPEDRAJA@mail.ono.es on Mon, Dec 25, 2000 at 08:04:17PM +0100 References: <200012251816.MAA78322@opal.tseinc.com> <000901c06ea5$7d0ae8a0$7d952a3e@ecv01> Message-ID: <20001227103002.A6520@loisto.uwasa.fi> On Mon, Dec 25, 2000 at 08:04:17PM +0100, SP wrote: > Hello. I'm adquired recently one HP-9000 380 workstation. I'm > pending to receive it. I'd like to know some details about this > machine, or even an URL where I could get some info. > The workstation appears to be not used in anytime. > HP 9000/380 is a very nice machine (and just fits the 10-year rule). It has a Motorola 68040 at 25MHz and up to 128MB memory with proprietary memory modules. It features HIL, RS-232 on a "PC"-type 9-pin serial port, built-in SCSI and (slow)HP-IB + ethernet (AUI + 10base2) and a centronics port. The cpu board is roughly the size of a standard sheet of A4 paper and plugs into a DIO-II backplane. Normally the cabinets had 4/5 DIO-II slots (which can be converted to DIO-I) with one or more slots holding the framebuffer(s). It was possible to add an extender giving you more slots to play with. Here's a picture of a 380 + DIO-I expander: http://www.tec.puv.fi/~s99137/kuvat/380takaa.jpg >From top to bottom: SCSI, two fast HP-IBs, dcm four-port mux, cpu board, empty, 98548 framebuffer. A 380 can be upgraded to a 385 by changing the 50 MHz crystal to a 66MHz part. My 380 is attached to five SCSI disk drives + exabyte tape + DAT + QIC + 9144 HCD tape + 9145 HCD tape + 7979A 9-track + 7974A 9-track + 35401 tape robot + some HP-IB drives (7933 etc). A very well balanced system:) and infinetely expandable too. I have gobs of old hp300 systems and I'm just trying to fix an old 9000/345 at the moment. For the OS you can either try to get HP-UX 9.10 or get NetBSD http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/hp300/ and if I have to recommend either I'd suggest you get NetBSD as it's better in some respects. -- jht From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Dec 27 03:32:36 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT: A milestone Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001227013236.00987100@192.168.42.129> Fellow CLASSICCMP'ers, I have reached a milestone. This message originates from my first qmail server ever based on a SPARCstation LX. I must say I would have been completely lost, configuration-wise, had it not been for the qmail setup how-to at the flounder site. Thanks are also due to Chuck McManis for providing some sanity checks, and especially for taking a few minutes out of Christmas day to field a somewhat frantic phone call from my end. I would also add that I was almost hopelessly lost with Sendmail, even after reading parts of the O'Reilly book on it. qmail was much easier to deal with, and I would not hesitate to suggest it to anyone putting up a Unix mailserver. Keep the peace(es). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Dec 27 03:52:32 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: PK-64 Posted Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001227015232.0098dd20@192.168.42.129> I think there were at least a couple of people who wanted to know when I would post the AEA PK-64 'PakRatt' on E-pay. I have done so. It may be viewed through the following link. Bidding starts at $5.00 + shipping, no reserve. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1204126528 Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Dec 27 05:48:11 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Identifying 72-pin SIMMs In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Identifying 72-pin SIMMs" (Dec 26, 22:45) References: Message-ID: <10012271148.ZM29539@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 26, 22:45, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Pile #1 (12 chips, 8 big & 4 smaller): > SEC KMM53616000AK-6 I don't know -- if you give me the IC numbers I might be able to tell. > Pile #2 (12 chips, 8 big & 4 smaller): > NEC > MC- 428000A36BH-70 MC-428000A36BH-70 is NEC 8M x 36 (32MB with parity) fast page mode, 70ns. Sure this isn't 16 x uPD4217400 and 8 x 424100? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From nabil at SpiritOne.com Wed Dec 27 05:47:06 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Does anyone have any PCM-12 (pdp-8 clone) hardware? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001227015232.0098dd20@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: Drop me a line. -- Aaron Nabil From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Dec 27 06:00:17 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Identifying 72-pin SIMMs In-Reply-To: Chuck McManis "Re: Identifying 72-pin SIMMs" (Dec 26, 23:57) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001226235108.02b69720@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <10012271200.ZM29861@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 26, 23:57, Chuck McManis wrote: > >Pile #2 (12 chips, 8 big & 4 smaller): > >NEC > >MC- 428000A36BH-70 > >9350XE > > This site: > > Seems to indicate that these Simms are 16M (4MB x 36) Except that Zane gave the type number off the SIMM, and this site gives the IC types. Not the same thing! > Whereas this site: > > Has a similar number that is an 8M parity simm for a PS2. Actually, it says 8M x 36, which is 32MB with parity :-) Since Zane wrote that it's an NEC SIM with a date code of 1993, I looked it up in the 1993 NEC databook :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 27 05:11:37 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Identifying 72-pin SIMMs In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001226235108.02b69720@208.226.86.10> References: Message-ID: Typically I just plug the questionable simms into a likely inexpensive motherboard and see what happens. Now for a good question, any suggestions on what would make a good set of machines to use for SIMM testing? Now I use 30 pin, either a IIsi or a Q950 mac depending on speed of chips. 64 pin goes in a IIfx 72 pin I am wondering about, maybe a late 486 or early Pentium 72 pin Parity no idea 72 pin ECC maybe a PS/2 model 9595 My thought is that some motherboards are very good at detecting the type of memory etc. From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Dec 27 08:11:11 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Identifying 72-pin SIMMs In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001226235108.02b69720@208.226.86.10> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001227080350.026c2900@pc> At 11:57 PM 12/26/00 -0800, Chuck McManis wrote: >This site > >Identifies the above SIMM as 64M (16M x 36) so it looks like it is >true parity but too many bits :-) I've always wished for a quick and easy way to type in a memory SIMM/DIMM number, and learn its specs. (Individual chip numbers on a PCB don't necessarily give the right answer, right?) Is there a web site like that somewhere? - John From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 27 08:38:27 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Identifying 72-pin SIMMs References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001226235108.02b69720@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <002101c07012$ac9bfc80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> 36 bits are what's needed for parity, i.e. 9 bits per byte. That's also what's needed for error correction, BTW, though I'm not sure it works in all cases. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 12:57 AM Subject: Re: Identifying 72-pin SIMMs > At 10:45 PM 12/26/00 -0800, you wrote: > >I'm guessing this is Off-Topic, since I think 72-pin SIMMs are newer than > >10 years (not really sure). However, I've no idea where else to ask about > >this. > > Prolly, but hey at least its about computers :-) > > >Pile #1 (12 chips, 8 big & 4 smaller): > >SEC KMM53616000AK-6 > >KOREA 9632 > > This site > > Identifies the above SIMM as 64M (16M x 36) so it looks like it is > true parity but too many bits :-) > > > > >Barcode > >006-3301427 > > > >Pile #2 (12 chips, 8 big & 4 smaller): > >NEC > >MC- 428000A36BH-70 > >9350XE > > This site: > > Seems to indicate that these Simms are 16M (4MB x 36) > > Whereas this site: > > Has a similar number that is an 8M parity simm for a PS2. > > Google is your friend ... > --Chuck > > > From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Dec 27 08:41:44 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: TQK70 Jumpers References: <3.0.5.32.20001221221854.0098ad80@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3A49FFA8.2891A5A1@idirect.com> >Bruce Lane wrote: > 1). Confirmation or denial that the address jumpers on the TQK50 (M7546) > and the TQK70 (M7559) are laid out in the same pattern, bit-wise? In other > words, does each board share the same pattern for setting its address? Jerome Fine replies: Hard to say. I am holding both boards in my hands - one in each. The TQK50 uses jumpers and the TQK70 uses dip switches. I NEED better glasses to check the settings, but I can answer any questions you have if need be. > 2). A jumper chart for the TQK70, or jumper setting info to set it to the > primary tape device address. I have the TQK70 set at the standard address for the PDP-11 (RT-11). Do you still need the dip switch values? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From harrison at timharrison.com Wed Dec 27 08:43:08 2000 From: harrison at timharrison.com (Tim Harrison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT: A milestone References: <3.0.5.32.20001227013236.00987100@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <3A49FFFC.8EB539DC@timharrison.com> Bruce Lane wrote: > I would also add that I was almost hopelessly lost with Sendmail, even > after reading parts of the O'Reilly book on it. qmail was much easier to > deal with, and I would not hesitate to suggest it to anyone putting up a > Unix mailserver. I run Postfix on any machine it will compile on (I was thinking of trying it on the Data General, just for kicks). It's far less resource intensive than anything I've used so far, and it's configuration is blindingly simple. And it's damned secure. I've had some bad experiences with qmail, and Postfix has been flawless. Now to get it running on my NeXT. :) -- Tim Harrison Network Engineer harrison@timharrison.com http://www.networklevel.com/ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Dec 27 09:38:53 2000 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:53 2005 Subject: Identifying 72-pin SIMMs Message-ID: <9b.ec4d2ae.277b670d@aol.com> In a message dated 12/27/00 8:23:54 AM Central Standard Time, jfoust@threedee.com writes: > At 11:57 PM 12/26/00 -0800, Chuck McManis wrote: > >This site > > > >Identifies the above SIMM as 64M (16M x 36) so it looks like it is > >true parity but too many bits :-) > > I've always wished for a quick and easy way to type in > a memory SIMM/DIMM number, and learn its specs. (Individual > chip numbers on a PCB don't necessarily give the right > answer, right?) Is there a web site like that somewhere? > no web site that I know of, but if you can get a copy of IBM's pc pocket reference manual, that has some general guidelines on IDing memory. come to think of it, i think the pocket ref guide is online somewhere, like IBM germany but not sure... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001227/eae67caa/attachment.html From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 27 10:12:59 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Does anyone have any PCM-12 (pdp-8 clone) hardware? References: Message-ID: <000901c0701f$e1cd5040$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I stumbled across an intersil board with their PDP-8 clone chip on eBay recently (yesterday, I think). If you search for Intersil you may find it. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aaron Nabil" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 4:47 AM Subject: Does anyone have any PCM-12 (pdp-8 clone) hardware? > > Drop me a line. > > -- > Aaron Nabil > > From jrasite at eoni.com Wed Dec 27 10:30:25 2000 From: jrasite at eoni.com (Jim Arnott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Identifying 72-pin SIMMs References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001226235108.02b69720@208.226.86.10> <002101c07012$ac9bfc80$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <3A4A191D.4866A70F@eoni.com> Another good site is: Jim From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Dec 27 11:40:46 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Does anyone have any PCM-12 (pdp-8 clone) hardware? Message-ID: <016701c0702c$f21f1890$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >I stumbled across an intersil board with their PDP-8 clone chip on eBay >recently (yesterday, I think). If you search for Intersil you may find it. > >Dick Which one? 6960 sampler with the basic 6100 chipset? Intercept the 6100 SBC with expansion as embeeded or trainer? PCM-12 system (development system aand boards)? Allison From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 27 11:57:05 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Does anyone have any PCM-12 (pdp-8 clone) hardware? References: <016701c0702c$f21f1890$bd769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <001101c0702e$6c5b4060$1192fea9@idcomm.com> I do believe it was the PCM-12 but I don't remember any other boards being with it. What I don't remember is whether it was still an open auction. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 10:40 AM Subject: Re: Does anyone have any PCM-12 (pdp-8 clone) hardware? > From: Richard Erlacher > > > >I stumbled across an intersil board with their PDP-8 clone chip on eBay > >recently (yesterday, I think). If you search for Intersil you may find > it. > > > >Dick > > > Which one? > > 6960 sampler with the basic 6100 chipset? > > Intercept the 6100 SBC with expansion as embeded or trainer? > > PCM-12 system (development system and boards)? > > Allison > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 27 13:01:10 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Identifying 72-pin SIMMs In-Reply-To: <10012271148.ZM29539@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: "Zane H. Healy" "Identifying 72-pin SIMMs" (Dec 26, 22:45) Message-ID: Pete Turnbull wrote: >On Dec 26, 22:45, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >> Pile #1 (12 chips, 8 big & 4 smaller): >> SEC KMM53616000AK-6 > >I don't know -- if you give me the IC numbers I might be able to tell. Actually I know now.... They're 64MB sticks!!! >> Pile #2 (12 chips, 8 big & 4 smaller): >> NEC >> MC- 428000A36BH-70 > >MC-428000A36BH-70 is NEC 8M x 36 (32MB with parity) fast page mode, 70ns. > Sure this isn't 16 x uPD4217400 and 8 x 424100? Oops, you got me there, I only counted the chips on one side.... In any case I just did my first upgrade, I removed 48MB from my AlphaStation 200 4/233, and put 128MB back into it, so it's sitting pretty at 192MB. It's currently in the process of booting so I can run an Autogen on it. This is great, I'm actually going to be able to try getting a Multia up and running VMS should I decide I want to. In any case I'm only going to have one Alpha starved for memory now, and that's my AlphaStation 500/333. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 14:40:11 2000 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Altos 580 needs a good home Message-ID: Hello all, I have an Altos 580, but no docs or software for it. Someone sent me floppy boot disk images, but I could not get them to work (likely some mistake on my end). Upon power up, the floppy light goes on, and never goes off. It's hard to tell if the floppy motor is spinning. The hard drive definitely spins up, and sounds fine. A terminal connected to any port on the back never shows any output. I have no idea if the thing is broken, and without docs, I don't have the time or inclination to find out... The unit is the "squashed hexagon" shape, with one internal 5.25" floppy, and an internal 5.25" hard drive. Five serial ports on the back, labeled JA through JE. Also other ports for what looks like an external hard drive.... I took the covers off, and aside from quite a bit of dust, there is no damage. No apparent heat spots, missing chips, etc. It's possible the floppy is just dust-clogged, but I haven't had time recently to clean it all out. If you want it, it's yours for what I have into it: US $20 plus shipping costs. The unit is fairly heavy, so it might get expensive, depending on where you are (I am located in north central Massachusetts, USA)... I am willing to ship worldwide, and will quote shipping to anyone who is interested. I am also willing to part it out, but will give first preference to someone who wants the whole thing. Thanks! Rich B. (I subscribe to the digest, so I can't reply immediately). From r_beaudry at hotmail.com Wed Dec 27 14:14:17 2000 From: r_beaudry at hotmail.com (Rich Beaudry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Software for Northstar Advantage 8/16? Message-ID: Hello all, I recently acquired a nice Northstar Advantage 8/16, and manuals, but no software. Would anyone happen to have either Graphics/DOS or Graphics/BASIC for this machine? I have complete manuals for them, but no disks :-( Also, I heard that the Northstars use hard-sectored 5.25" disks. Is this true? Thanks in advance, Rich B. (I subscribe to the digest, so I can't reply immediately ....) From red at bears.org Wed Dec 27 15:13:53 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Software for Northstar Advantage 8/16? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Dec 2000, Rich Beaudry wrote: > Would anyone happen to have either Graphics/DOS or Graphics/BASIC for this > machine? I have complete manuals for them, but no disks :-( I have some software for the Advantage, but I'll have to check the inventory after I get home this evening before I can say for sure whether I have this particular software. > Also, I heard that the Northstars use hard-sectored 5.25" disks. Is this > true? Yes, it is true. I'm nearly certain they were 10-sectored. ok r. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Dec 27 16:12:32 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Software for Northstar Advantage 8/16? Message-ID: <01ba01c07053$241eab00$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: r. 'bear' stricklin To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 4:45 PM Subject: Re: Software for Northstar Advantage 8/16? >On Wed, 27 Dec 2000, Rich Beaudry wrote: > >> Would anyone happen to have either Graphics/DOS or Graphics/BASIC for this >> machine? I have complete manuals for them, but no disks :-( > >I have some software for the Advantage, but I'll have to check the >inventory after I get home this evening before I can say for sure whether >I have this particular software. > >> Also, I heard that the Northstars use hard-sectored 5.25" disks. Is this >> true? > >Yes, it is true. I'm nearly certain they were 10-sectored. Based on the Advantage I have standard DD NS* 10 sector hard sector and I think it will do DD/DS 80tr (DDQD) for 780k. Allison From cbajpai at mediaone.net Wed Dec 27 18:44:28 2000 From: cbajpai at mediaone.net (Chandra Bajpai) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Software for Northstar Advantage 8/16? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Rich, I also acquired a Northstar Advantage..though my system has a flakey keyboard otherwise it works great (at least with the 1 disk I have). I'd love to trade software & notes with you. Any ideas where to get hard sectored disks today? -Chandra -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Rich Beaudry Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 3:14 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Software for Northstar Advantage 8/16? Hello all, I recently acquired a nice Northstar Advantage 8/16, and manuals, but no software. Would anyone happen to have either Graphics/DOS or Graphics/BASIC for this machine? I have complete manuals for them, but no disks :-( Also, I heard that the Northstars use hard-sectored 5.25" disks. Is this true? Thanks in advance, Rich B. (I subscribe to the digest, so I can't reply immediately ....) From vcf at siconic.com Wed Dec 27 18:03:12 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Kaypro 4/software for sale (fwd) Message-ID: Please contact the original sender. Reply-to: mtnaire@easilink.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 18:07:46 -0700 From: Robert Specht Subject: Kaypro 4/software for sale I have heard about you from computer museums who were kind enough to respond to my message: I purchased a new Kaypro 4 system around 1983/84 while getting my 2nd college degree; I am ready to sell it with original software and some manuals. The computer has a modem port and includes a power cable. There is also a Kaypro printer and connection cord; the printer is usable (I'm using it now to print off files before selling the computer) but not in as good shape as the computer. The printer takes ribbons that fit the old IBM Selectric typewriters. There is an unopened box of floppy disks and a few other blank disks. Please let me know if you are interested in this historic computer system, and at what price. If you are not interested, I would welcome suggested other buyers to contact. The software consists of several floppy disks in hard cases and includes: CP/M version 2.2, S-Basic Perfect Calc - Program/lessons Microsoft Basic-80 (plus selected games) Perfect Filer Working Diskette- Individual Member Data Base MicroPlan Perfect Writer/Perfect Speller Working Diskete - Edit Disk Perfect Writer - Installation Disk \ Perfect Writer - Lessons Disk A public domain utilites disk with a program called "TYPWRYT" which allows use of the keyboard like a typewriter and the following MASTER disks: Wordstar, The Word Plus Perfect Filer - Individual Member Data Base Perfect Calc - Program/Lessons CP/M v. 2.2, S-Basic MicroPlan, C-Basic Microsoft Basic-80 Perfect Writer - Lessons Disk Perfect Speller Perfect Writer - Installation Disk The manuals include: Perfect Calc Perfect Filer Wordstar CP/M and small handbooks: Kapro The Word Plus Letter Quality Printer User's Manual Introduction to Software Kaypro User's Guide (Read Me First) The above manuals are all the Kaypro publications. In addition, I have the following: Understanding and Using dBase II by Rob Krumm, Brady Communications Company, Inc., copyright 1984 (ISBN 0-89303-916-0). Thank you. Ronnee-Sue Helzner, Utah Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From r.stek at snet.net Wed Dec 27 19:40:16 2000 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Software for Northstar Advantage 8/16? Message-ID: You can still get new 10 hole hard-sectored disks at www.cadigital.com (or at least you could about a year ago). Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From Glenatacme at aol.com Wed Dec 27 22:53:17 2000 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Testing 72-pin SIMMs Message-ID: Mike Ford wrote: > Now for a good question, any suggestions on what would make a good set of > machines to use for SIMM testing? > > Now I use > > 30 pin, either a IIsi or a Q950 mac depending on speed of chips. > 64 pin goes in a IIfx Okay, you've got those covered. > 72 pin I am wondering about, maybe a late 486 or early Pentium > 72 pin Parity no idea > 72 pin ECC maybe a PS/2 model 9595 > > My thought is that some motherboards are very good at detecting the type of > memory etc. For testing 72-pin non-parity SIMMs I use a Soyo board which was one of the last mass-produced 486 mobos. It will take up to a 486-133 CPU, and it will run on one piece of FPM or EDO memory, so, unlike Pentium boards, you can test a single piece. Additionally the boot box indicates whether the memory is fast page or EDO. I've never found a bullet-proof program for testing SIMMs under DOS or windows, so I keep a hard drive loaded up with Win95. If the system boots and I can run defrag (it being memory-intensive) then I assume the SIMM is okay barring any heat-related problems which may only show up after the SIMM gets hot. Anybody know of one? For 72-pin parity memory get an old Pentium board which requires the ninth bit. I got mine from hitechcafe.com. The board cost $10 and a P-60 CPU was $5. (Sorry, no onboard i/o or PCI bus). ECC? Good luck ;>) Glen Goodwin 0/0 From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Dec 28 06:53:56 2000 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives Message-ID: The subject (I think) is on topic, the hardware to which I'm refering is a little too new for us, but I'm gonna ask anyway. I have a Pentium I wintel box which I've had for nearly five years. It's 1.9 GB HD has been slowly developing bearing whine for the last several months. It is getting noticibly louder now and I'm sure this faithful old HD is nearing the end of it's earthly sojourn. My fantasy is that I can buy another IDE drive (of somewhat larger capacity) and just somehow copy the whole thing on the original down to the new one, without having to go thru the backup/restore/re-auth all the programs I've got on it. I have 8mm streaming tape backups of the system, but that's a pain. I'm living in southern India so 'just pop in to Fry's and get a package like DriveCopy III' is not an option. :) Any advice/how-to/magic formulae? Cheers and Happy NuYeer John From ks at coastalnet.com Thu Dec 28 07:29:53 2000 From: ks at coastalnet.com (KS) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives References: Message-ID: <3A4B4051.5712@coastalnet.com> John Lawson wrote: > My fantasy is that I can buy another IDE drive (of somewhat larger > capacity) and just somehow copy the whole thing on the original down to > the new one, (snip) > > John What's the OS? If it's Win95 then www.computercraft.com has a good walk through on "Transferring A WINDOWS 95 System From One Hard Drive To Another" http://www.computercraft.com/docs/doitrightwin95hd.html Kirk Scott ks@coastalnet.com From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 28 07:46:58 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001228074106.026ec8c0@pc> At 07:53 AM 12/28/00 -0500, you wrote: > The subject (I think) is on topic, the hardware to which I'm refering is >a little too new for us, but I'm gonna ask anyway. > My fantasy is that I can buy another IDE drive (of somewhat larger >capacity) and just somehow copy the whole thing on the original down to >the new one, without having to go thru the backup/restore/re-auth all the >programs I've got on it. You can easily purchase Norton Ghost online. Try www.symantec.com. It's actually a DOS-based program, although it requires Windows to create the DOS boot disks. (Go figure.) The Windows program lets you select which network card drivers will be placed on the boot floppy. This allows it to clone drives in a master-slave mode between two computers. Yes, one license of Ghost lets you run it on two when you're cloning this way. I think it's using a DOS clone of some kind on the boot floppies it makes, and the network mode isn't required, so you can copy between two drives in a system. Copying a disk image from one drive to another is one thing, doing a smart copy (considering the actual filesystem and files) is another. I think you want the latter. (Linux 'dd' will easily do the former.) I think it's on-topic, too - after all, it'll happily copy older FAT partitions as well as today's latest. - John From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Dec 28 08:01:03 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D12@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > The subject (I think) is on topic, the hardware to which I'm refering is > a little too new for us, but I'm gonna ask anyway. > > I have a Pentium I wintel box which I've had for nearly five years. > It's 1.9 GB HD has been slowly developing bearing whine for the last > several months. It is getting noticibly louder now and I'm sure this > faithful old HD is nearing the end of it's earthly sojourn. > > My fantasy is that I can buy another IDE drive (of somewhat larger > capacity) and just somehow copy the whole thing on the original down to > the new one, without having to go thru the backup/restore/re-auth all the > programs I've got on it. I have 8mm streaming tape backups of the system, > but that's a pain. Symantec's Ghost can do this. You didn't mention much else about the system, i.e. running DOS or Windows, FAT16 or FAT32... If you're running Windows and you've formetted the older drive as FAT32, then you're in the ideal shape- you can clone your partition to a new partition on the new drive and in its new form, it can be as large as the disk. However, if you're running DOS, and/or have the drive partition(s) formatted as FAT16, you'll be limited to cloning the old drive's paritions to partitions on the new drive that must top out at 2GB (2047MB, actually). Additionally, the BIOS of the motherboard in this PC may or may not be up-to-date enough to handle the large sizes of newer IDE drives. A BIOS upgrade might help that. Also, if you've got multiple FAT16 partitions, I'm not sure how things will work on the second FAT16 partition if, in cloning, you grow the first to the 2047MB limit. I do this all the time, mostly to get around the problem of NT4 not installing on drives larger than just under 8GB. hth, -doug q From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Dec 28 08:16:49 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives In-Reply-To: from John Lawson at "Dec 28, 2000 07:53:56 am" Message-ID: <200012281416.eBSEGoS18633@bg-tc-ppp137.monmouth.com> > > > The subject (I think) is on topic, the hardware to which I'm refering is > a little too new for us, but I'm gonna ask anyway. > > I have a Pentium I wintel box which I've had for nearly five years. > It's 1.9 GB HD has been slowly developing bearing whine for the last > several months. It is getting noticibly louder now and I'm sure this > faithful old HD is nearing the end of it's earthly sojourn. > > My fantasy is that I can buy another IDE drive (of somewhat larger > capacity) and just somehow copy the whole thing on the original down to > the new one, without having to go thru the backup/restore/re-auth all the > programs I've got on it. I have 8mm streaming tape backups of the system, > but that's a pain. > > I'm living in southern India so 'just pop in to Fry's and get a package > like DriveCopy III' is not an option. :) > > > Any advice/how-to/magic formulae? > > > Cheers and Happy NuYeer > > John > Norton Ghost and DriveCopy are both sold and delivered electronically over the internet. I know, because I bought Partition Magic's upgrade to v5 electronically. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Dec 28 08:23:37 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Somewhat OT: A milestone In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20001227013236.00987100@192.168.42.129> Message-ID: <20001228142413.LTRB29808.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I think everyone has fits when first exposed to Sendmail..... Congratulations! Regards, Jeff In <3.0.5.32.20001227013236.00987100@192.168.42.129>, on 12/28/00 at 09:23 AM, Bruce Lane said: >I would also add that I was almost hopelessly lost with Sendmail -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Dec 28 08:29:09 2000 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: IDE Clone: Win95 Message-ID: Duh! You'd think that I'd mention a few little details The system is Windoze 95 v400.0950 IIRC. And thanks to KS for the URL, that's my next stop. Also, thanks Doug for the Norton Ghost reference... I'll look into that too. Cheers John From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Dec 28 08:29:50 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Testing 72-pin SIMMs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20001228143806.MAHN29808.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I know everyone is going to say 'yeah right', but for the last seven years as a professional tech, I've used an os/2 box to test ram. Warp won't tolerate bad memory at all and so reveals it rather quickly. This way I've even exposed bad memory that tested out as good in our simm checker. If the ram is bad, your machine will trap HARD. Since it is warp, you know it can't be anything other than the ram you just stuck in. I suspect any really solid multitasking operating system should do the trick. I usually install less ram on the warp tester machine than is needed which makes certain things are trucking along. If I had four 64mb dimms to check, I'd check them one at a time on benchbox. Benchbox has about 133mb ram requirement under normal use. 64mb of ram will give your dimm a real workout. Windows is a lousy testbed because you almost never know when its going to crash next. Makes it tough to categoricly say that this 256mb dimm is bad.... Esp. as 9x can't use that much ram as much more than a virtual disk. regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Dec 28 08:38:29 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20001228144042.MBST29808.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> If your drive is formatted for fat/fat32 you should use EzDrive from the drive's maker. WD and Seagate ship this product. It will dup the drive and grow the partitions at the same time. If it is EXT2, HPFS, NTFS, or some non-ms filesystem, you can use Ezdrive, Ghost, or DriveImage to move the data then some other tool like partition magic to grow the partition. For all that, you could use DD in linux/unix to move the data. Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From rdd at smart.net Thu Dec 28 08:47:19 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, John Lawson wrote: > My fantasy is that I can buy another IDE drive (of somewhat larger > capacity) and just somehow copy the whole thing on the original down to > the new one, without having to go thru the backup/restore/re-auth all the > programs I've got on it. I have 8mm streaming tape backups of the system, > but that's a pain. Hmmm, what's so dificult about just using "cp -Rp" or dump/restore? Unless you're not using UNIX... UNIX makes life so much easier; you didn't mention what OS you're using, but it doesn't sound like UNIX. > Any advice/how-to/magic formulae? Convert all of your documents, data, spreadsheets, etc. to ASCII, find something that will write all of this to a tar format on a tape that can be read by FreeBSD, Linux, Solaris, or whatever, then dump all of this data three times, just to be on the safe side (since you're possibly using a Microsoft product, it pays to be extra careful), and then install some version of UNIX that can read the tape. ;-) Good luck! -- Copyright (C) 2000 R. D. Davis "The best way to gain a true understanding of All Rights Reserved Wile E. Coyote on the Roadrunner cartoons is to rdd@perqlogic.com 410-744-4900 fly, head-first, off a horse into something like http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd a fence or a tree; trust me, this works." --RDD From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Dec 28 09:12:48 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Testing 72-pin SIMMs Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D14@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > I've never found a bullet-proof program for testing SIMMs under DOS or > windows, so I keep a hard drive loaded up with Win95. If the system boots > and I can run defrag (it being memory-intensive) then I ssume the SIMM is > okay barring any heat-related problems which may only show up after the SIMM > gets hot. > > Anybody know of one? I have a one, designed by Charles (?) Cook, and first implemented by John Molnar, which I've reimplemented for the Sol, some Z-80-based machines, and the 8051 embedded systems I've developed. But I never got around to porting it to DOS... Our Dell servers shipped with a program called "Dell Diagnostics" which includes a comprehensive memory test that can check for stuck bits, shorts between address bits, short between address and data bits, etc. It complains when I run it on non-Dell equipment, but usually works, and it's so far caught problems nothing else would catch. hth, -dq From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 28 14:54:01 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Testing 72-pin SIMMs In-Reply-To: Douglas Quebbeman "RE: Testing 72-pin SIMMs" (Dec 28, 10:12) References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D14@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <10012282054.ZM17572@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 28, 10:12, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > I've never found a bullet-proof program for testing SIMMs under DOS or > > windows, [...] > > Anybody know of one? > > I have a one, designed by Charles (?) Cook, and first > implemented by John Molnar, which I've reimplemented > for the Sol, some Z-80-based machines, and the 8051 > embedded systems I've developed. But I never got around > to porting it to DOS... > > Our Dell servers shipped with a program called "Dell > Diagnostics" which includes a comprehensive memory > test that can check for stuck bits, shorts between > address bits, short between address and data bits, > etc. > > It complains when I run it on non-Dell equipment, > but usually works, and it's so far caught problems > nothing else would catch. I don't know about Charles Cook, but the name John Molnar sounds vaguely familiar. However, the best test I've ever found was one that runs in linear time (ie twice as much memory takes twice as long to test; most tests run in time dependant on some power of the size -- eg double the size, triple the time, like a Galpat which depends on the square of the size). The test was devised and implemented by Suk and Reddy, and is described in "A march test for functional faults in semiconductor random access memories", published in IEEE Transactions on Computing Vol.C-30 No.12,December 1981. There were a whole lot of articles about memory testing in the journals around that time, and there's a follow-up article by Abadir and Reghbati, in Computing Surveys Vol.15 No.3, September 1983, published by the ACM, which presents a kind of survey of methods. This test will find stuck-at-zero, stuck-at-one, data coupling faults, address coupling faults, data-address-coupling faults, and decoder faults. It's pretty easy to implement, and *provided* each data bit is in a separate IC, you can do all the bits in parallel. If not (eg if the RAMs are 4-bit wide devices) then you need to do some manipulation to ensure you're not affecting bits you don't want to -- a fact conveniently forgotten by most RAM test implementors. Anyway, Suk & Reddy's test is quite fast, and very easy to implement. I did a Z80 version that tested the entire RAM in a bytewide array (so lots of shifts and loops) without using any stack (what's the point in storing data in the memory you think needs testing?), and it runs in just under six seconds at 3.5MHz. If you had one bit per chip, obviously it would be much more than 8 times faster (8 times because of parallelism and a further factor of two or more by eliminating the shifts, some loops, and logical ORs/ANDs used for masking individual bits). The one thing most memory tests *won't* do is test for correct refresh tolerance. You may also have trouble testing the parity fully unless you can read/write the parity bits directly. Very few tests, by the way, will detect pattern-sensitive faults. Luckily, these are very rare, and I've only ever seen one true pattern-sensitive fault that wasn't a simple coupling fault. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From lgwalker at look.ca Thu Dec 28 18:04:53 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI Message-ID: <3A4B64A5.31881.4DBE731@localhost> I recently picked up a Fujitsu M2266SA HDD. This is a 1M SCSI 5 1/2 " drive with a black bezel like the IBM-PC MFM drives and will fit in the same space. The vendor said it was SCSI-1 but TheRef says it is SCSI-2 and Fujitsu doesn't say. I have a heavily modified PC(5150) with an Intel 386 Onboard card as Allison has on her Leading Edge 8086 (BTW, I have a lead >ajp < to someone that has the mem-expander daughter card) However I have no info on whether it would be possible to add a SCSI card to an IBM-PC. I have an Adaptec 1522A ISA SCSI card and likely others in my card box. Was there a SCSI card for the PC ? If so, would this possibly, with this configuration, allow you to transcend the 5-slot limits of the PC. And of course to have 1 meg storage for programs. WHEEEEE!!! Am I in fantasy-land or could I have a system to confound the leading-edgers, altho it already does that. "NO IT ISN'T POSSIBLE ON SUCH AN EARLY COMPUTER" . He he he he, chortle. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Dec 28 15:29:39 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: TQK70 Jumpers In-Reply-To: <3A49FFA8.2891A5A1@idirect.com> References: <3.0.5.32.20001221221854.0098ad80@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001228132939.00983aa0@pop.sttl.qwest.net> At 09:41 27-12-2000 -0500, Jerome Fine wrote: >I have the TQK70 set at the standard address for the PDP-11 (RT-11). Do >you still need the dip switch values? No, got it handled, thanks. Turns out that they are laid out the same, at least based on my experiments. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From jhellige at earthlink.net Thu Dec 28 15:27:10 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI In-Reply-To: <3A4B64A5.31881.4DBE731@localhost> References: <3A4B64A5.31881.4DBE731@localhost> Message-ID: >However I have no info on whether it would be possible to add a >SCSI card to an IBM-PC. I have an Adaptec 1522A ISA SCSI card >and likely others in my card box. Was there a SCSI card for the >PC ? If so, would this possibly, with this configuration, allow you to >transcend the 5-slot limits of the PC. And of course to have 1 meg >storage for programs. WHEEEEE!!! > > Am I in fantasy-land or could I have a system to confound the >leading-edgers, altho it already does that. "NO IT ISN'T POSSIBLE >ON SUCH AN EARLY COMPUTER" . He he he he, chortle. Larry, There were any number of 8-bit ISA SCSI cards available...in fact, most of the early cards were made for the original ISA slots vice the 16-bit slots introduced with the AT. Trantor comes to mind as one, though any others escape me at the moment. It shouldn't be too hard to locate one though. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 28 15:32:09 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI In-Reply-To: <3A4B64A5.31881.4DBE731@localhost> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20001228152846.00e333a0@pc> At 04:04 PM 12/28/00 -0800, Lawrence Walker wrote: >However I have no info on whether it would be possible to add a >SCSI card to an IBM-PC. I have an Adaptec 1522A ISA SCSI card >and likely others in my card box. Was there a SCSI card for the >PC ? Yes, SCSI was available for PCs. Your question seems so simple, I can't help but think I'm missing something. Exactly what kind of PC do you want to have SCSI? If you have a card, what you need is appropriate software - for the machine, OS, and peripherals you expect to run. The Adaptec 1542 is one of the earlier ISA SCSI cards with the best software support. - John From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Dec 28 15:37:10 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI In-Reply-To: <3A4B64A5.31881.4DBE731@localhost> from Lawrence Walker at "Dec 28, 2000 04:04:53 pm" Message-ID: <200012282137.eBSLbAM19340@bg-tc-ppp137.monmouth.com> > I recently picked up a Fujitsu M2266SA HDD. This is a 1M SCSI > 5 1/2 " drive with a black bezel like the IBM-PC MFM drives and > will fit in the same space. The vendor said it was SCSI-1 but > TheRef says it is SCSI-2 and Fujitsu doesn't say. > > I have a heavily modified PC(5150) with an Intel 386 Onboard card > as Allison has on her Leading Edge 8086 (BTW, I have a lead > >ajp < to someone that has the mem-expander daughter card) > > However I have no info on whether it would be possible to add a > SCSI card to an IBM-PC. I have an Adaptec 1522A ISA SCSI card > and likely others in my card box. Was there a SCSI card for the > PC ? If so, would this possibly, with this configuration, allow you to > transcend the 5-slot limits of the PC. And of course to have 1 meg > storage for programs. WHEEEEE!!! > > Am I in fantasy-land or could I have a system to confound the > leading-edgers, altho it already does that. "NO IT ISN'T POSSIBLE > ON SUCH AN EARLY COMPUTER" . He he he he, chortle. > > ciao larry > > > > Reply to: > lgwalker@look.ca > > It's doable, I think...depending upon your availale slots and such. There were cards from Trantor and Future Domain for SCSI on 8-bit PC slots... www.hitechcafe.com -- under controller cards. ISA 8BIT SCSI-2 H/D ONLY+ $5.00 Item #: TMC850 Manufacturer: FUTURE DOMAIN ISA 8BIT SCSI H/D ONLY FUTURE DOMAIN $5.00 Item #: TMC850MER Manufacturer: FUTURE DOMAIN ISA 8BIT SCSI C.C RANCHO TECHNOLOGIES + $15.00 Item #: RT1000B-2 Manufacturer: RANCHO TECHNOLOGIES The main trick will be finding SCSI drivers for these babies if you want to use anything beyond bios access on 'em. --Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 28 15:40:04 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Does anyone have any PCM-12 (pdp-8 clone) hardware? Message-ID: It was an Intercept jr., according to the auction.. Had 3 or 4 plug in cards with it too.. Still not as cool as the PPS-4 development system that was on Ebay a few weeks ago... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 28 15:45:10 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI In-Reply-To: <3A4B64A5.31881.4DBE731@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Dec 28, 2000 04:04:53 PM Message-ID: <200012282145.NAA06775@shell1.aracnet.com> > I recently picked up a Fujitsu M2266SA HDD. This is a 1M SCSI > 5 1/2 " drive with a black bezel like the IBM-PC MFM drives and Let me get this right, this is a 1 Megabyte SCSI drive? If so all I can say is wow, I've never seen a drive that physical size, that was smaller than 5MB. The smallest SCSI I've ever seen was 20MB. Zane From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 28 15:49:36 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI References: <200012282137.eBSLbAM19340@bg-tc-ppp137.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <002b01c07118$1239b720$1192fea9@idcomm.com> ... Future Domain, Trantor, Iomega, Western Digital, (and a number of clones of the WD), and, of course, NCR. later to become SYMBIOS. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Pechter" To: Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 2:37 PM Subject: Re: IBM-PC and SCSI > > I recently picked up a Fujitsu M2266SA HDD. This is a 1M SCSI > > 5 1/2 " drive with a black bezel like the IBM-PC MFM drives and > > will fit in the same space. The vendor said it was SCSI-1 but > > TheRef says it is SCSI-2 and Fujitsu doesn't say. > > > > I have a heavily modified PC(5150) with an Intel 386 Onboard card > > as Allison has on her Leading Edge 8086 (BTW, I have a lead > > >ajp < to someone that has the mem-expander daughter card) > > > > However I have no info on whether it would be possible to add a > > SCSI card to an IBM-PC. I have an Adaptec 1522A ISA SCSI card > > and likely others in my card box. Was there a SCSI card for the > > PC ? If so, would this possibly, with this configuration, allow you to > > transcend the 5-slot limits of the PC. And of course to have 1 meg > > storage for programs. WHEEEEE!!! > > > > Am I in fantasy-land or could I have a system to confound the > > leading-edgers, altho it already does that. "NO IT ISN'T POSSIBLE > > ON SUCH AN EARLY COMPUTER" . He he he he, chortle. > > > > ciao larry > > > > > > > > Reply to: > > lgwalker@look.ca > > > > > > It's doable, I think...depending upon your availale slots and such. > > There were cards from Trantor and Future Domain for SCSI on 8-bit > PC slots... > > www.hitechcafe.com -- under controller cards. > > ISA 8BIT SCSI-2 H/D ONLY+ $5.00 > Item #: TMC850 Manufacturer: FUTURE DOMAIN > ISA 8BIT SCSI H/D ONLY FUTURE DOMAIN $5.00 > Item #: TMC850MER Manufacturer: FUTURE DOMAIN > ISA 8BIT SCSI C.C RANCHO TECHNOLOGIES + $15.00 > Item #: RT1000B-2 Manufacturer: RANCHO TECHNOLOGIES > > The main trick will be finding SCSI drivers for these babies if you > want to use anything beyond bios access on 'em. > > --Bill > > -- > bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 > | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 > | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 28 15:28:24 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI In-Reply-To: <3A4B64A5.31881.4DBE731@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Dec 28, 0 04:04:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1472 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001228/7d629135/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 28 16:06:10 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI In-Reply-To: <200012282137.eBSLbAM19340@bg-tc-ppp137.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Dec 28, 0 04:37:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 481 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001228/a9638a5c/attachment.ksh From SPEDRAJA at mail.ono.es Thu Dec 28 16:23:08 2000 From: SPEDRAJA at mail.ono.es (SP) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 Cpu References: <200012280045.SAA01801@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <007701c0711c$ca67d800$7d952a3e@ecv01> Hello to all. I'd like to know what kind of expansion or options could be attached to this machines: PDP-11/23 ---------- * KDF11-B 5014313C M8189/DIGITAL * Q-BusMosMemory 5014500C M8067/DIGITAL * DQ614S153040 Rev F/DILOG * System Interface 11/03/ESI * 808836-05 Rev K/Datasystems Design There are 4 free slots. The system was fully functional in an ESI lasertrimmer system for hybrid circuits that was taken out of service 1 year ago. By the moment I have no disk for it (maybe in a future). I'd like to know if could be possible to put some class of disk or diskette unit, even tape, eventually different of DEC stuff. I suppose than this could be possible by some SCSI card, but my experience with this is limited to the use of emulators like Bob Supnik's or E-11. Thanks for all. Best Regards. Sergio From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 28 16:29:09 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI References: <200012282145.NAA06775@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <001301c0711e$428f0280$1192fea9@idcomm.com> IIRC, the first "SCSI drives" on PC's were hooked up with some sort of bridge controller, e.g. XEBEC 1410. What puzzles me here is that I have had several Fujitsu MB22-somethings that're not 5-1/4" and not small (capacity-wise) like that though they significantly predate the PC era.. Is it possible that the drive is malfunctioning in some way, hence misrepresenting its size? I can't imagine a relatively aware company like Fujitsu, which was a leader in the hard disk market even well before the PC wasting the resources on a femto drive like that, as that was even smaller in capacity than an 8" floppy drive. The Fujitsu drives I've got from that era and others I've seen were ST506 types or 8" SA1000-compatibles, or used SMD as their host interface. They did make SCSI and IPI drives as well, but I avoided them because they (the SMD and IPI drives) tend to be rather heavy. Why do you believe that this drive is 1 MB in capacity? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 2:45 PM Subject: Re: IBM-PC and SCSI > > I recently picked up a Fujitsu M2266SA HDD. This is a 1M SCSI > > 5 1/2 " drive with a black bezel like the IBM-PC MFM drives and > > Let me get this right, this is a 1 Megabyte SCSI drive? If so all I can say > is wow, I've never seen a drive that physical size, that was smaller than > 5MB. The smallest SCSI I've ever seen was 20MB. > > Zane > > From liste at artware.qc.ca Thu Dec 28 16:42:33 2000 From: liste at artware.qc.ca (liste@artware.qc.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Testing 72-pin SIMMs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 28-Dec-2000 Glenatacme@aol.com wrote: > I've never found a bullet-proof program for testing SIMMs under DOS or > windows, so I keep a hard drive loaded up with Win95. If the system > boots and I can run defrag (it being memory-intensive) then I assume > the SIMM is okay barring any heat-related problems which may only show > up after the SIMM gets hot. I've come to regard MemTest-86 as indespensable for hardware debuging : http://reality.sgi.com/cbrady_denver/memtest86 -Philip From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Thu Dec 28 15:51:30 2000 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: OT: Firewall running OpenBSD, why? Message-ID: <87lmt043kt.fsf@yodacity.local> I became very curious after I read a couple of posts assuming OpenBSD as the best OS for a firewall box. Could anyone explain (or at least point out links) why OpenBSD would be more appropriate for a firewall? I am planning the instalation of a firewall, and I was thinking about a linux box, possibly running the LRP package. I do not intend to raise any OS-war, but rather to understand the arguments for each side. Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Dec 28 17:14:40 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: OT: help... Message-ID: <024d01c07125$8d2b55d0$bd769a8d@ajp166> Need any suggestions on repair of a PC monitor (SVGA). It's a Dell and was working though it had a long warmup to full intensity. Anyhow I turned it off and now it just chirps when I turn it on. Before I bin it I'd like to see if its fixable... Ideas? I generally dont do monitors and TVs because of the HV, dust and abundance of sharp edges. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 28 17:44:29 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: OT: help... In-Reply-To: <024d01c07125$8d2b55d0$bd769a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Dec 28, 0 06:14:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1455 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001228/12192cec/attachment.ksh From vaxman at qwest.net Thu Dec 28 17:52:57 2000 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John, At one point in time Seagate provided a utility with the retail packaged drives that would copy EVERYTHING from your old drive to the new... It is possible Western Digital has a similiar utility bundled, or at least available from their website... clint On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, John Lawson wrote: > > > The subject (I think) is on topic, the hardware to which I'm refering is > a little too new for us, but I'm gonna ask anyway. > > I have a Pentium I wintel box which I've had for nearly five years. > It's 1.9 GB HD has been slowly developing bearing whine for the last > several months. It is getting noticibly louder now and I'm sure this > faithful old HD is nearing the end of it's earthly sojourn. > > My fantasy is that I can buy another IDE drive (of somewhat larger > capacity) and just somehow copy the whole thing on the original down to > the new one, without having to go thru the backup/restore/re-auth all the > programs I've got on it. I have 8mm streaming tape backups of the system, > but that's a pain. > > I'm living in southern India so 'just pop in to Fry's and get a package > like DriveCopy III' is not an option. :) > > > Any advice/how-to/magic formulae? > > > Cheers and Happy NuYeer > > John > > > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 28 18:50:39 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: OT: Firewall running OpenBSD, why? In-Reply-To: <87lmt043kt.fsf@yodacity.local> from "Rodrigo Ventura" at Dec 28, 2000 09:51:30 PM Message-ID: <200012290050.QAA11798@shell1.aracnet.com> > I became very curious after I read a couple of posts assuming > OpenBSD as the best OS for a firewall box. Could anyone explain (or at > least point out links) why OpenBSD would be more appropriate for a > firewall? > > I am planning the instalation of a firewall, and I was > thinking about a linux box, possibly running the LRP package. > > I do not intend to raise any OS-war, but rather to understand > the arguments for each side. Let me address the last paragraph first by stating I've been running Linux for 9 years now. I prefer Linux over the BSD varients hands down. HOWEVER, there is no way I'm going to use Linux for a Firewall, and I'd even think twice before using it as a server. OpenBSD has now gone over three years without a remotely exploitable hole, when using the default install. The entire reason for OpenBSD's existance is security. My OS of choice for running a firewall would be OpenVMS, however, since the software to do firewall and NAT doesn't really exist for OpenVMS, I run OpenBSD. For info on OpenBSD try the following: http://www.openbsd.org http://www.deadly.org/ If you have enough machines around do a default install of what ever Linux distro you were thinking of on one, and OpenBSD on another. Then run some tools for checking for vulnerabilies against the two. You just might find the results disturbing. Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 28 17:43:58 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > My fantasy is that I can buy another IDE drive (of somewhat larger >capacity) and just somehow copy the whole thing on the original down to >the new one, without having to go thru the backup/restore/re-auth all the >programs I've got on it. I have 8mm streaming tape backups of the system, When I bought a new motherboard last year it came with a Norton CD called Ghost, which I have heard very good things about and does just what you want. I don't know how large the program is, or how fussy it might be to snag off the CD and email, but suspect a "way" is possible. Most likely it is best if this is done off the list via direct email otherwise you might get 7 copies emailed to you. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 28 18:05:33 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: Testing 72-pin SIMMs In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D14@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: >> Anybody know of one? How about this place I think I downloaded something free from them and now they have me on some newsletter (which I just got, so passing info on now). I haven't tried anything from them yet. From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Dec 28 19:04:34 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: OT: Firewall running OpenBSD, why? In-Reply-To: <200012290050.QAA11798@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Dec 28, 2000 04:50:39 pm" Message-ID: <200012290104.eBT14Yl19940@bg-tc-ppp231.monmouth.com> > Let me address the last paragraph first by stating I've been running Linux > for 9 years now. I prefer Linux over the BSD varients hands down. > > HOWEVER, there is no way I'm going to use Linux for a Firewall, and I'd even > think twice before using it as a server. OpenBSD has now gone over three > years without a remotely exploitable hole, when using the default install. > The entire reason for OpenBSD's existance is security. My OS of choice for > running a firewall would be OpenVMS, however, since the software to do > firewall and NAT doesn't really exist for OpenVMS, I run OpenBSD. > > If you have enough machines around do a default install of what ever Linux > distro you were thinking of on one, and OpenBSD on another. Then run some > tools for checking for vulnerabilies against the two. You just might find > the results disturbing. > > Zane Agreed... I'd actually consider FreeBSD or NetBSD for firewall duty. The only Linux I'd consider for a firewall is a distribution I'd roll myself. (Building every utility and control file manually)... I'm considering building a Linux varient that has a BSD style build environment and less of the lovely autoconf built gnu stuff. ...and no RPM's. --Bill Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From claudew at sprint.ca Thu Dec 28 19:26:30 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: OT: help... References: <024d01c07125$8d2b55d0$bd769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3A4BE846.E54680A6@sprint.ca> ajp166 wrote: > > Need any suggestions on repair of a PC monitor (SVGA). > It's a Dell and was working though it had a long warmup to full > intensity. Anyhow I turned it off and now it just chirps when > I turn it on. Before I bin it I'd like to see if its fixable... Ideas? Component slowly going bad...perhaps a capacitor. Or just tube going weak and now something different...chirps usually mean a short in switch mode power supply - tries to start and stops because of to much current being drawn...again and again....chirp...chirp...chirp... If you are not scared of HV, you might wanna open it up, look around carefully for swollen. leaky or discolored capacitors or exploded components.... You might see something obvious. If not, well...unless you have experience in fixing monitors...it will be tough... Most monitors have slow HV discharge. If not use proper HV discharge procedure... Search the net for that model no...some sites have repair briefs that talk about common problems for certain models... Claude > > I generally dont do monitors and TVs because of the HV, dust and > abundance of sharp edges. I almost always blow compressed air into anything I fix when I open it up - that includes most of the vintage systems I restore/fix/collect. Claude > > Allison From donm at cts.com Thu Dec 28 19:41:33 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:54 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI In-Reply-To: <3A4B64A5.31881.4DBE731@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I recently picked up a Fujitsu M2266SA HDD. This is a 1M SCSI > 5 1/2 " drive with a black bezel like the IBM-PC MFM drives and > will fit in the same space. The vendor said it was SCSI-1 but > TheRef says it is SCSI-2 and Fujitsu doesn't say. According to the listing in the Pocket PCRef, the M2266SA is a 1079M SCSI drive in a 5.25" FH case. About 1Gig. - don > I have a heavily modified PC(5150) with an Intel 386 Onboard card > as Allison has on her Leading Edge 8086 (BTW, I have a lead > >ajp < to someone that has the mem-expander daughter card) > > However I have no info on whether it would be possible to add a > SCSI card to an IBM-PC. I have an Adaptec 1522A ISA SCSI card > and likely others in my card box. Was there a SCSI card for the > PC ? If so, would this possibly, with this configuration, allow you to > transcend the 5-slot limits of the PC. And of course to have 1 meg > storage for programs. WHEEEEE!!! > > Am I in fantasy-land or could I have a system to confound the > leading-edgers, altho it already does that. "NO IT ISN'T POSSIBLE > ON SUCH AN EARLY COMPUTER" . He he he he, chortle. > > ciao larry > > > > > Reply to: > lgwalker@look.ca > From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 28 20:06:22 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: OT: Firewall running OpenBSD, why? In-Reply-To: <200012290104.eBT14Yl19940@bg-tc-ppp231.monmouth.com> from "Bill Pechter" at Dec 28, 2000 08:04:34 PM Message-ID: <200012290206.SAA13276@shell1.aracnet.com> > I'm considering building a Linux varient that has a BSD style build > environment and less of the lovely autoconf built gnu stuff. > > ...and no RPM's. > > --Bill I'd *really* like to see a GNU free Linux! I know that at one point there was some discussion of doing this. Why you ask? Because some of us just can not stomach Stallman! As for no RPM's, something like the OpenBSD Ports tree would be nice (not sure if this is in other BSD's). Zane From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Dec 28 20:33:25 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: DSL Rate In-Reply-To: <3A463A49.DD7B1C48@home.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20001223195101.0097bd50@pop.sttl.uswest.net> <3.0.5.32.20001224045907.0097ec70@pop.sttl.uswest.net> <3.0.5.32.20001224090136.0097ee70@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20001228183325.0095c3a0@192.168.42.129> At 13:02 24-12-2000 -0500, Neil C. wrote: >OK this tells me that MyRouter is acting as a bridge (at layer 3 they're >the same network). Can MyRouter act as firewall and be a bridge? I've not delved heavily into the OSI layer model. As far as the features go, the P312 has been released for production so you can look for yourself at: http://www.zyxel.com/product/dslcablesharing/p312.htm >Because I've done a good job of confusing myself let me ask a really dumb >question. Do you have this working now? Yes! It's been working just fine for over three months. I was in the Beta program for the P312 prior to its public release. I chose it specifically because of its extensive NAT capabilities. In fact, as evidenced by this (and earlier) posts, I brought our mail server online this past week. It's 1-1 NATted through the Zyxel as well. The server itself carries a reserved 192.168.x.x address, and that's mapped 1-1 to the outside world with a 63.226.233.x address out of my assigned group. >this shouldn't work. My background in computers tells me that there is a >way to make this work but requires inventiveness on the part of MyRouter. Then I'd say we've got some -really- smart engineers at Zyxel. ;-) >I have no trouble with everything connected to the hub. Actually, the 'hub' is a smart 10/100 switch. Happy cogitating. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates to me that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma). From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Dec 28 20:48:37 2000 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here are some (OT) disturbing developments in the (OT) field of IDE cloning. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/15620.html On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > > My fantasy is that I can buy another IDE drive (of somewhat larger > >capacity) and just somehow copy the whole thing on the original down to > >the new one, without having to go thru the backup/restore/re-auth all the > >programs I've got on it. I have 8mm streaming tape backups of the system, > > When I bought a new motherboard last year it came with a Norton CD called > Ghost, which I have heard very good things about and does just what you > want. I don't know how large the program is, or how fussy it might be to > snag off the CD and email, but suspect a "way" is possible. Most likely it > is best if this is done off the list via direct email otherwise you might > get 7 copies emailed to you. > > -- From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Thu Dec 28 22:00:30 2000 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives Message-ID: <20001228.220033.-3994735.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> This garbage will never fly. I'd buy *LOTS* of non-CPRM drives right *now*, as they will be in very high demand around this time next year, if these clowns get away with this. On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:48:37 -0600 (CST) Paul Thompson writes: > > Here are some (OT) disturbing developments in the (OT) field of IDE > cloning. > > http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/15620.html ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 28 21:54:16 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI References: Message-ID: <000901c0714b$045a8160$1192fea9@idcomm.com> NOW I REMEMBER WHY THAT NUMBER SOUNDED FAMILIAR . . . I have three of them . . . and they are, indeed, 1 GB or so. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Maslin" To: Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 6:41 PM Subject: Re: IBM-PC and SCSI > > > On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > I recently picked up a Fujitsu M2266SA HDD. This is a 1M SCSI > > 5 1/2 " drive with a black bezel like the IBM-PC MFM drives and > > will fit in the same space. The vendor said it was SCSI-1 but > > TheRef says it is SCSI-2 and Fujitsu doesn't say. > > According to the listing in the Pocket PCRef, the M2266SA is a 1079M > SCSI drive in a 5.25" FH case. About 1Gig. > > - don > > > > I have a heavily modified PC(5150) with an Intel 386 Onboard card > > as Allison has on her Leading Edge 8086 (BTW, I have a lead > > >ajp < to someone that has the mem-expander daughter card) > > > > However I have no info on whether it would be possible to add a > > SCSI card to an IBM-PC. I have an Adaptec 1522A ISA SCSI card > > and likely others in my card box. Was there a SCSI card for the > > PC ? If so, would this possibly, with this configuration, allow you to > > transcend the 5-slot limits of the PC. And of course to have 1 meg > > storage for programs. WHEEEEE!!! > > > > Am I in fantasy-land or could I have a system to confound the > > leading-edgers, altho it already does that. "NO IT ISN'T POSSIBLE > > ON SUCH AN EARLY COMPUTER" . He he he he, chortle. > > > > ciao larry > > > > > > > > > > Reply to: > > lgwalker@look.ca > > > > From jpl15 at panix.com Thu Dec 28 22:43:20 2000 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: IDE Cloning thanks and a 'second that thought' Message-ID: Many thanks to all who took the time to help me out with the IDE clone question. I will attempt to perform the operation on the Computerworld site, and if that don't work ( and I see no reason why it shouldn't) I'll get down a copy of Ghost from the Net and use that. Thanks again y'all. On the Proposal to Individually Brand (R/O) all mass storage units for Personal Computers: FEH!!!! FEH!!!! FEHFEHFEHFEHFEH!!! I would think it might be something to consider, to salt away a reasonable quantity of large-ish drives, against the day when Large Male Sibling requires that the contents of your filesystem be scrutinized once each day, for "...material which evidences a substantial deviation from accepted societal norms and mores, or any data appearing to fail the Anti Terrorism, Child Protection, Dissident, Criminal, Unauthorized Encryption, Sensitive and Classified Data, and Alien Infiltration Sieve Monitor, as provided for in the Comprehensive Homogenous Data Interchange, Content, and Format Act of 2005 et.seq." And I neither wiegh 300 pounds, have a full unkempt beard, or collect guns, or even own one. I ain't got nothing to hide, it's just the *idea* of how easily such schemes lead down the slippery slope into a subtle kind of 'fascism' for want of a better word. Taken along with the rapidly-forgotten little bit of intelligence that Our US Supreme Court has apparently sanctioned selective 'convenient' disenfranchisment, and nobody seems to much care... Sigh. I'm getting Old and Cranky and Way, Way off topic. Happy NuYeer to All John From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Dec 28 23:21:59 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 Cpu Message-ID: <029601c07158$049e0720$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: SP >Hello to all. I'd like to know what kind of expansion or options >could be attached to this machines: > >PDP-11/23 >---------- > >* KDF11-B 5014313C M8189/DIGITAL >* Q-BusMosMemory 5014500C M8067/DIGITAL >* DQ614S153040 Rev F/DILOG >* System Interface 11/03/ESI >* 808836-05 Rev K/Datasystems Design >By the moment I have no disk for it (maybe in a future). I'd like >to know if could be possible to put some class of disk or >diskette unit, even tape, eventually different of DEC stuff. DEC RX50 using RQDX2 or RQDX3 card will get yo floppy and mfm hard disk, That DIlog or the DSD card may support disks as well. PDP-11/23B is basic machine you have and that is Q-bus so finding cards for it should be easy as the Microvax-II and later also used the same bus. It was quite popular. Check PUPS PDP-11 unix preservation socity for software. Allison >I suppose than this could be possible by some SCSI card, >but my experience with this is limited to the use of >emulators like Bob Supnik's or E-11. > >Thanks for all. Best Regards. > >Sergio > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 28 23:24:39 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: IDE Cloning thanks and a 'second that thought' References: Message-ID: <001d01c07157$a47e2dc0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Before they willy-nilly implement a mechanism that prevents you from copying your data from drive to drive, they'd better come up with backup software that works 100 % of the time in 100% of circumstances. Just now they've only achieved 10% in each category. Moreover, they'd better make certain their drives have an actual worst-case time before failure of at least 100 years, since someone somewhere is entitled to be able to use his data that long. This may mean that OS and application vendors actually have to prove that their stuff works, under all possible conditions. That means test intervals on the order of 100 months per unit. Can you imagine testing a multitasking system to a depth of, say, 2^32 input combinations in all possible states? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Lawson" To: Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 9:43 PM Subject: IDE Cloning thanks and a 'second that thought' > > > Many thanks to all who took the time to help me out with the IDE clone > question. I will attempt to perform the operation on the Computerworld > site, and if that don't work ( and I see no reason why it shouldn't) I'll > get down a copy of Ghost from the Net and use that. Thanks again y'all. > > > On the Proposal to Individually Brand (R/O) all mass storage units for > Personal Computers: > > FEH!!!! FEH!!!! FEHFEHFEHFEHFEH!!! > > > I would think it might be something to consider, to salt away a > reasonable quantity of large-ish drives, against the day when Large Male > Sibling requires that the contents of your filesystem be scrutinized once > each day, for "...material which evidences a substantial deviation from > accepted societal norms and mores, or any data appearing to fail the Anti > Terrorism, Child Protection, Dissident, Criminal, Unauthorized > Encryption, Sensitive and Classified Data, and Alien Infiltration > Sieve Monitor, as provided for in the Comprehensive Homogenous Data > Interchange, Content, and Format Act of 2005 et.seq." > > And I neither wiegh 300 pounds, have a full unkempt beard, or collect > guns, or even own one. I ain't got nothing to hide, it's just the *idea* > of how easily such schemes lead down the slippery slope into a subtle kind > of 'fascism' for want of a better word. > > Taken along with the rapidly-forgotten little bit of intelligence that > Our US Supreme Court has apparently sanctioned selective 'convenient' > disenfranchisment, and nobody seems to much care... > > > Sigh. I'm getting Old and Cranky and Way, Way off topic. > > Happy NuYeer to All > > > John > > From Glenatacme at aol.com Thu Dec 28 23:25:58 2000 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: How to clone an IDE drive (OT) Message-ID: Go to: http://www.maxtor.com/Maxtorhome.htm and download MaxBlast Plus. This is a 1.4 MB file, and it is FREE. Be sure to read the directions on the download page. This utility will create a bootable MaxBlast disk which will work under any version of DOS or Windows. Install your drive. Boot from your newly-created MaxBlast disk. Follow the simple directions. You may choose to simply partition and format your new disk, or you may clone an existing disk. We use this every day in our shop when we set up a new drive or upgrade a customer's existing drive. It's simple, easy, and fast. If there is a gross hardware problem with the motherboard or drives, it will fail. Also, if the data to be cloned is garbage, the program may bomb. Otherwise, MaxBlast has a lot of advantages: * Will clone or partition/format any brand of drive. The utilities shipped with Seagate or WD drives sometimes only work with Seagate or WD drives. * FAST partition/format. Where the DOS utilities can take 10+ minutes, MaxBlast works in seconds. * Removes junk. If the drive you are trying to set up has previously had a bootlock installed, or EZ-BIOS, or if any other program is embedded in the master boot record, MaxBlast will delete it without hassle. I use this all the time when I want to wipe a drive and it's data is so scrambled that even the volume name is trash. Under DOS, you are required to enter the vol name in order to delete a partition, which may not be possible if the vol name has been corrupted and now consists of unprintable characters. MaxBlast has no such requirement. If this isn't clear contact me off list. Good luck! Glen Goodwin 0/0 From optimus at canit.se Thu Dec 28 23:50:57 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, John Lawson wrote: > My fantasy is that I can buy another IDE drive (of somewhat larger > capacity) and just somehow copy the whole thing on the original down to > the new one, without having to go thru the backup/restore/re-auth all the > programs I've got on it. I have 8mm streaming tape backups of the system, > but that's a pain. > > Any advice/how-to/magic formulae? On an Amiga, I'd just jumper the new IDE drive as slave, partition and format it, and then do a "Copy CLONE ALL Old_Drive: New_Drive:". I've done the same thing on a NetBSD machine, though I've forgotten the exact syntax for "cp". Is this solution sufficiently simple? Otherwise, one might try a "dd". From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 28 23:55:46 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: PDP-11/23 Cpu In-Reply-To: <029601c07158$049e0720$bd769a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Dec 29, 2000 12:21:59 AM Message-ID: <200012290555.VAA16097@shell1.aracnet.com> > >Hello to all. I'd like to know what kind of expansion or options > >could be attached to this machines: > > > >PDP-11/23 > >---------- > > > >* KDF11-B 5014313C M8189/DIGITAL > >* Q-BusMosMemory 5014500C M8067/DIGITAL > >* DQ614S153040 Rev F/DILOG > >* System Interface 11/03/ESI > >* 808836-05 Rev K/Datasystems Design > > > >By the moment I have no disk for it (maybe in a future). I'd like > >to know if could be possible to put some class of disk or > >diskette unit, even tape, eventually different of DEC stuff. > > > DEC RX50 using RQDX2 or RQDX3 card will get yo floppy > and mfm hard disk, That DIlog or the DSD card may support > disks as well. >From Megan's version of the field guide: DQ614 Q Dilog ST-506/412 emulation of four RL01/02 See: http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdp11-field-guide.txt IIRC, these cards can't be used unless you've got the software required to get the drive setup. One important fact is this is actually a PDP-11/23+ not a /23, so you've got a pretty good system. One question would be is that memory a M8067-FA, -KA, or -LA? That tells if you've 128Kbyte, 256Kbyte, or 512Kbyte of RAM. The other question would be what kind of chassis is this in? Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 29 01:57:48 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives In-Reply-To: <20001228.220033.-3994735.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: >This garbage will never fly. >I'd buy *LOTS* of non-CPRM drives right *now*, >as they will be in very high demand around this >time next year, if these clowns get away with this. > >On Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:48:37 -0600 (CST) Paul Thompson > writes: >> >> Here are some (OT) disturbing developments in the (OT) field of IDE >> cloning. >> >> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/2/15620.html All of the serious pirates I know only have ONE major hardware area of spending, hard drives and CDR. If this was seriously coming, they would just go shopping. Besides I don't see how this could get around a trivial solution of encapsulating or even just encoding the data with a software layer. The spooky notion would be that the "data" is NEVER available. You buy a new CD, and the music is all encrypted, with a "key" that gets passed directly to playback hardware so that the music "data" never exists where it can be directly accessed. Blocking access to the analog data I don't see as likely, but watermarking that data is VERY likely. I only can hope the unwashed masses see this for the trap it is and just walk away like they did with the pay per view DVDX stuff. From wrm at ccii.co.za Fri Dec 29 06:22:52 2000 From: wrm at ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives Message-ID: <200012291222.KAA10224@ccii.co.za> Hi all >From: John Lawson > > I have a Pentium I wintel box which I've had for nearly five years. >It's 1.9 GB HD has been slowly developing bearing whine for the last >several months. It is getting noticibly louder now and I'm sure this >faithful old HD is nearing the end of it's earthly sojourn. >to move the data. I just did this to a Windoze 95 box. Firstly, I put in the new hard drive and installed Windoze on it. Meanwhile, I stuck the old drive in a Linux box and made a big tarball. Then, I restored the tarball on to the new hard drive. Reasoning: the tarball gets all the files, except the bootfiles, and those get sorted out by the new install. Won't work (yet) for NTFS, tho. W From truthanl at oclc.org Fri Dec 29 08:04:27 2000 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: M2266SA Scsi Drive Message-ID: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFF8C@oa2-server.oa.oclc.org> According to the Micro House "The Hard Disk Technical Guide" by Douglas T Anderson ISBN 1- 880252-27-9 The Fujitsu M2266SA is 1079.10 MB 15 hds 1658 cylinders 14.5 msec seek 5.25 in Full Height SCSI RLL 1,7 aoto landing zone. So He Has A gigabyte drive Sincerely Larry Truthan, a digest subscriber. truthanl@oclc.org From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Fri Dec 29 09:58:50 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: OT: help... Message-ID: I have found that if I do a google search on the model of the monitor and the specific problem I usually find some links. The best one for monitors I have found is the following site. http://www.anatekcorp.com/faq/faqpro.htm My IBM P70 was clicking off and on. I also found the same pointer via google on which capacitors on my Toshiba TV were dried out. I got the TV out of a dumpster and it worked for 2-3 years and now it has problems, dry capacitors. Try google, altavista, and then yahoo. I use the advanced text search method on altavista. You must be persistent. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From blayer at qwest.net Fri Dec 29 02:19:34 2000 From: blayer at qwest.net (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI In-Reply-To: <001301c0711e$428f0280$1192fea9@idcomm.com> References: <200012282145.NAA06775@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001229021854.009efa10@mail.vikingelectronics.com> I've got one or two 8-bit SCSI cards... contact me off-list if you still need one. Bill From b.layer at vikingelectronics.com Fri Dec 29 02:32:35 2000 From: b.layer at vikingelectronics.com (Bill Layer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: 72pin SIMM swap In-Reply-To: References: <200012282137.eBSLbAM19340@bg-tc-ppp137.monmouth.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001229022912.009f1540@mail.vikingelectronics.com> Hello, I'm in need of one or two 32MB (8x32 or 8x36) 72pin SIMMS, 70ns or better. Not sure if it matters, but they'll be going into Macs. I have (4) 16MB 72pin 60ns SIMMS to offer in trade, plus some 4MB 30pin SIMMS, cash or other parts. Please let me know if you can help. Bill From jtinker at coin.org Fri Dec 29 10:57:33 2000 From: jtinker at coin.org (John Tinker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: IDE Cloning thanks and a 'second that thought' References: Message-ID: <3A4CC27D.8197F47E@coin.org> John Lawson wrote: > snip... > I ain't got nothing to hide, it's just the *idea* > of how easily such schemes lead down the slippery slope into a subtle kind > of 'fascism' for want of a better word. > > Taken along with the rapidly-forgotten little bit of intelligence that > Our US Supreme Court has apparently sanctioned selective 'convenient' > disenfranchisment, and nobody seems to much care... > > Sigh. I'm getting Old and Cranky and Way, Way off topic. I think there is a proto-fascist gene, or two. It has to be resisted constantly, or we slip into it. -- John Tinker From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Dec 29 11:38:31 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: IDE Cloning thanks and a 'second that thought' In-Reply-To: <001d01c07157$a47e2dc0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Before they willy-nilly implement a mechanism that prevents you from copying > your data from drive to drive, they'd better come up with backup software > that works 100 % of the time in 100% of circumstances. Just now they've > only achieved 10% in each category. > Moreover, they'd better make certain their drives have an actual worst-case > time before failure of at least 100 years, since someone somewhere is > entitled to be able to use his data that long. > This may mean that OS and application vendors actually have to prove that > their stuff works, under all possible conditions. That means test intervals > on the order of 100 months per unit. Can you imagine testing a multitasking > system to a depth of, say, 2^32 input combinations in all possible states? "They'd better..." "They'd better..." "...have to prove their stuff works..." Or WHAT? Tea in the harbor? Just WHO is going to bring about such resposibility? The guvmint is NOT on the side of improving reliability. Just what can WE do to bring about the needed reliability that you mention? Think carefully about just what would it take to turn billg into a millionaire. On Thu, 28 Dec 2000, John Lawson wrote: > > On the Proposal to Individually Brand (R/O) all mass storage units for > > Personal Computers: > > FEH!!!! FEH!!!! FEHFEHFEHFEHFEH!!! > > And I neither wiegh 300 pounds, have a full unkempt beard, or collect > > guns, or even own one. I ain't got nothing to hide, it's just the *idea* > > of how easily such schemes lead down the slippery slope into a subtle kind > > of 'fascism' for want of a better word. There is way too little tea in the harbor. Besides, my beard is kempt. > > Taken along with the rapidly-forgotten little bit of intelligence that > > Our US Supreme Court has apparently sanctioned selective 'convenient' > > disenfranchisment, and nobody seems to much care... That's how the slippery slope gets started. > > Sigh. I'm getting Old and Cranky and Way, Way off topic. > > Happy NuYeer to All Happy Humbug! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Dec 29 12:16:45 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: IDE Cloning thanks and a 'second that thought' Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C509D1E@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > John Lawson wrote: > > > snip... > > > I ain't got nothing to hide, it's just the *idea* > > of how easily such schemes lead down the slippery slope > > into a subtle kind of 'fascism' for want of a better word. > > > > Taken along with the rapidly-forgotten little bit of > > intelligence that Our US Supreme Court has apparently > > sanctioned selective 'convenient' disenfranchisment, > > and nobody seems to much care... > > > > Sigh. I'm getting Old and Cranky and Way, Way off topic. > > I think there is a proto-fascist gene, or two. It has to be resisted > constantly, or we slip into it. I think you're right... I drive a lot, and the condition of roads is a big issue with me... to heck with the trains running on time, if a Paver runs for President, I'm there! ;-) -dq From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Dec 29 12:26:29 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI Message-ID: <02fd01c071c5$26be8510$bd769a8d@ajp166> >I recently picked up a Fujitsu M2266SA HDD. This is a 1M SCSI 5 1/2 " drive with a black bezel like the IBM-PC MFM drives and Ah thats 10mb if memory serves. >will fit in the same space. The vendor said it was SCSI-1 but TheRef says it is SCSI-2 and Fujitsu doesn't say. Difference is max data rate and some higher level commands added. SCSI-II is backward compatable. >I have a heavily modified PC(5150) with an Intel 386 Onboard card as Allison has on her Leading Edge 8086 (BTW, I have a lead >ajp < to someone that has the mem-expander daughter card) It's an Inboard386... a meg or memory for that would be great if possible. >However I have no info on whether it would be possible to add a SCSI card to an IBM-PC. I have an Adaptec 1522A ISA SCSI card and likely others in my card box. Was there a SCSI card for the PC ? If so, would this possibly, with this configuration, allow you to It's doable, the only reason SCSI was not commonplace in PCs the was the significantly greater cost at the time. Also back then PCs could barely enjoy the potential performance advantage. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Dec 29 12:37:21 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: OT: help... Message-ID: <030a01c071c7$413f6c40$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >Oh, they're no worse (for HV) than any other mains-powered SMPSU. We've >had this discussion before, but I still maintain that the most dangerous >voltage in a monitor is the rectified (and maybe doubled) mains -- 400V This one uses only direct mains (160V). That bothers me less as it can't reach out abnd get me. >at essentially unlimited current. And it's on bare PCB tracks. A lot more >likely to do you harm than the low-current 25kV EHT supply that's >impossible to touch by accident. There is insulation breakdown, I've been nailed once. I have experience with HV and High Power as well as big RF so I know how to avoid getting wacked. I just generally dislike working on TV/monitors. >As you doubtless realise, you've got a SMPSU that's shutting down because >it thinks it's overloaded. >From testing that woudl be the case. >The most likely cause of a real overload is a shorted HOT (Horizontal >Output Transistor), possibly damaged because of shorted turns in the >flyback transformer. So testing that transistor (on a heatsink near the >flyback) is a good first move. Testing is that it's ok. >The other thing that monitors suffer from is dried-up electrolytics, >which therefore have a high ESR. These can cause all sorts of faults, the test was to bridge the likely candidates.. no joy. >including a PSU that keeps on shutting down. I'd test all such capacitors >in the PSU area. This might even be the cause of the long warm-up time. Would seem that way but that was before, not it does not power up. Since it's SVGA and prints for it are unlikely and some of the parts are oddball enough to not warrent digging too deep. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Dec 29 12:40:33 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: OT: help... Message-ID: <030b01c071c7$4213d340$bd769a8d@ajp166> >If you are not scared of HV, you might wanna open it up, look around Respoectful yes, scared no. I've done my bit with HV in high power Vacuum tube transmitters. >carefully for swollen. leaky or discolored capacitors or exploded >components.... You might see something obvious. If not, well...unless >you have experience in fixing monitors...it will be tough... None seen. I have extensive troubleshooting background and tools. >Most monitors have slow HV discharge. If not use proper HV discharge >procedure... I have my tool for that. (murphy stick) >Search the net for that model no...some sites have repair briefs that >talk about common problems for certain models... Nothing found Allison From Scott.Miller at vandenberg.af.mil Fri Dec 29 12:58:55 2000 From: Scott.Miller at vandenberg.af.mil (Miller Scott Contr 30CS/FTI) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: VAX 6000-510 for sale/trade in Central CA Message-ID: I acquired this beast from a multinational mining corporation that had used it up until four or five years ago, at which point it was shut down and left in the climate-controlled computer room. I believe some of the RAM was leased and was returned, but other than that the machine was apparently in operating condition. Unfortunately, it was on the second floor of the building, and without renting a crane the only way to get it out was to disassemble the entire thing and haul it by hand down three flights of stairs. Since then, it's been mostly reassembled (all of the parts are in place but not connected) and has been sitting in my garage. It's been there for a few months, and I'm still not sure when if ever I'll have a chance to really work on it (and I've also got this dream of someday being able to park a car in my garage!) so I'm putting this message out to see if there's someone out there who could give the machine a better home. I got it for free (not counting the doctor's bill for spraining my wrist carrying RA-92's) but I put a considerable amount of effort into moving it (and moving it again when I moved), and in getting the company to give it to me in the first place. Also, I've had offers from parts resellers for enough money that I'd rather not just give it away, but I'd rather see it put to good use than broken up for parts. So if you're interested, make me an offer - I'll consider cash, Alpha or PC equipment, SCUBA gear, or anything interesting that takes up less garage space than a minicomputer. =] Pictures: http://home1.gte.net/web1006g/vax1.jpg http://home1.gte.net/web1006g/vax2.jpg Parts: T2018 T2020-00 T2023-00 T2020 T2053-CL (qty 2) T2052-00 T1035-00 T1043-00 DCMSSB-01533 (Clearpoint) SA-850 storage system with 4 RA92's and another drive of a type I forget at the moment. I've also got lots of misc. parts including TK50's, an InfoServer 100, and a couple of MicroVAX II's with the following parts: SCD-RQD11/EC DELQA (qty 2) DQ153 DHV11 (qty 2) M7555 Grant Continuity Card (qty 2) M7546 (qty 2) M7609 (qty 2) M7606 (qty 2) CMX-831 (Camintonn 8MB card) (qty 2) RQDX3 M7513 M3106 I've got a couple of VAXstation 3100's that I'd rather not part with but might consider as part of a trade. This is a pretty quick inventory of the system - if anyone's interested I can provide more pictures and details of parts. As for transportation, I'd imagine it would cost a lot to get this thing shipped anywhere, but when I moved across town I was able to move it pretty easily with only two people (one to offload) using a fairly cheap rental truck with a hydraulic lift. If you're anywhere within driving distance of California's central coast, that'd probably be the easiest way to go. Scott Miller From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Dec 29 13:11:22 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: M2266SA Scsi Drive In-Reply-To: <5D2A5FE013C66B44901B5A45A5304DDA3EFF8C@oa2-server.oa.oclc. org> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001229110957.00a48790@208.226.86.10> >The Fujitsu M2266SA is 1079.10 MB 15 hds 1658 cylinders 14.5 msec seek 5.25 >in Full Height SCSI RLL 1,7 aoto landing zone. This is one of the Sun "standard" drives so all the formatting programs know about it. It is also a nice drive, but a hot drive. Do _not_ put this drive in your standard wimpy external SCSI enclosure, make sure it gets some air. I've burned myself on these drives they got so warm (worked great though!) --Chuck From lgwalker at look.ca Fri Dec 29 16:16:48 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI In-Reply-To: <3A4B64A5.31881.4DBE731@localhost> Message-ID: <3A4C9CD0.29665.99F7EEF@localhost> > I recently picked up a Fujitsu M2266SA HDD. This is a 1M SCSI ^^^^^^^^^ > 5 1/2 " drive with a black bezel like the IBM-PC MFM drives and > will fit in the same space. The vendor said it was SCSI-1 but > TheRef says it is SCSI-2 and Fujitsu doesn't say. > Oops. Still getting my symbols screwed up. I think the movement into stratispherically high-capacity drives has befuddled me. That should have been 1000 Mb. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Fri Dec 29 16:16:48 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI In-Reply-To: References: <3A4B64A5.31881.4DBE731@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Dec 28, 0 04:04:53 pm Message-ID: <3A4C9CD0.5863.99F7F76@localhost> > > However I have no info on whether it would be possible to add a SCSI > > card to an IBM-PC. I have an Adaptec 1522A ISA SCSI card and likely > > others in my card box. Was there a SCSI card for the PC ? If so, > > would this possibly, with this configuration, allow you to transcend > > the 5-slot limits of the PC. And of course to have 1 meg storage for > > programs. WHEEEEE!!! > > I think it's possible, although I have no idea if a commercial card > was ever produced. > > SCSI-1 had an 8 bit databus, and there were a number of SCSI interface > chips that also used an 8 bit databus on host side -- the most common > being the well-known NCR 5380. Sticking one of those on an 8 bit ISA > card is not hard -- in fact I've seen cards like that. > > All versions of the PC BIOS after the original one support BIOS > extension ROMs on peripheral cards. This is needed to boot from any > device other than a standard floppy drive -- basically the PC > motherboard BIOS knows how to boot floppy drives and nothing else. If > you want to boot from a hard disk or something, then the hard disk > controller needs to have a BIOS extension ROM that (amongst other > things) contains drivers for that controller. > > So in theory it's possible to make an 8 bit SCSI controller with the > necessary extension ROM to allow the PC to boot from a SCSI drive. > > I have never seen one (all the 8 bit SCSI cards I have don't have a > BIOS extension ROM on them), but that doesn't mean they don't exist. > > -tony > In thinking about it I forgot about the Intel Onboard 386 card installed in it. I imagine that takes over all the functions from the original 8086 Bios so installing any 8bit SCSI should work. Now I'm wondering about expanding 5150 or any clones capacities using the SCSI chain. Thanks all. I should have thought about it further before firing off the SOS but this applies to any regular PC-clone 8-bit as well. ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Fri Dec 29 16:16:48 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3A4C9CD0.12502.99F7F17@localhost> > > The subject (I think) is on topic, the hardware to which I'm > refering is > a little too new for us, but I'm gonna ask anyway. > > I have a Pentium I wintel box which I've had for nearly five years. > It's 1.9 GB HD has been slowly developing bearing whine for the last > several months. It is getting noticibly louder now and I'm sure this > faithful old HD is nearing the end of it's earthly sojourn. > > My fantasy is that I can buy another IDE drive (of somewhat larger > capacity) and just somehow copy the whole thing on the original down > to the new one, without having to go thru the backup/restore/re-auth > all the programs I've got on it. I have 8mm streaming tape backups of > the system, but that's a pain. > > I'm living in southern India so 'just pop in to Fry's and get a > package > like DriveCopy III' is not an option. :) > > > Any advice/how-to/magic formulae? > > > Cheers and Happy NuYeer > > John > I just bought a 10 G Samsung and made an easy transfer. Samsung, and I imagine most major manufacturers do the same, provided me with a link to an installation program from On-Track. Upon supplying the Samsung ser # number I was able to download it. It even provided an overlay fix for my old Bios to get around its 2 G limit rather than having to install a new Bios. There's also a wealth of material at http://www.ping.be/bios/ ciao larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From djg at drs-esg.com Fri Dec 29 14:46:48 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions Message-ID: <200012292046.PAA30403@drs-esg.com> >From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) > >Um, by your numbering scheme, 7 and 8 are H and J, not E and F. > Yup >> 40 pin connector is numbered >> >> 1 (A) 39 (UU) >> 2 (B) 40 (VV) > >ObNitpick: That's the reverse of the conventional numbering; Berg >connectors with letters have the red stripe at the A end, which is on the >left of the pin header (looking into the pins) while all other headers >which are numbered have pin 1 on the right. Yup, how about Looking into pins of 40 pin male connector numbering is 2 (A) 40 (UU) 1 (B) 39 (VU) I think both the numbers are letters were otherwise correct, just the summary diagram was wrong. I have put this information on my search page, http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/view.pl?table=pdp8docs&id=146 I also added the VT78 to RX01/RX02 cable pinout This is the VT78 to RX01/RX02 BC80D-5K cable pinout (from buzzing out mine) Pins 1-9 of the DB25 go to pins 1-9 of the DB37 Pins 14-23 of the DB25 go to pins 20-28 of the DB37 Pin 25 of the DB25 is attached to the cable shield which is grounded at the other end with a wire to one of the mounting screw on the DB37. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights From vcf at siconic.com Fri Dec 29 14:24:27 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: Nice article on computer music pioneer Barry Vercoe Message-ID: Check it out here: http://www.media.mit.edu/EMS/bv-interview.html Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Dec 29 16:12:47 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: VAX KA680 compatible memory? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001229140903.026bfe70@208.226.86.10> I picked up a KA680 CPU today (yipee!) replaced my KA670 and tried firing it up. It did not like my memory (I've got 96MB (1 x 32MB and 1 x 64MB) I didn't think there was such as thing as MS680 memory but did find one obscure reference on another web page to a 32MB module. Does anyone know if the MS670 memory can be used with the KA680 and if not do I have to get MS690 memory? --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 29 17:10:12 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: OT: help... In-Reply-To: <030a01c071c7$413f6c40$bd769a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Dec 29, 0 01:37:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3337 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001229/f0e11433/attachment.ksh From west at tseinc.com Fri Dec 29 17:34:20 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: stuff available in STL, Heath & TRS-80 Message-ID: <001701c071ef$df1e4800$468653d1@fozzie> While browsing through my usual electronics surplus haunts today in St. Louis, I came across the following items for sale in a local shop. I have no interest in them, but thought someone here might? If so, email me off-list. Heath Computer Systems model H-101-20. This system looks vaguely like an HP85 case, but no internal monitor. Might be pre-PC, but could be an x86 dos system too - I have no idea. Radio Shack DWP-210 printer. Has a manual with it. Neither of these items had a price tag on them yet, but from past experience I'd say this store would likely be tagging it around $40 for the puter and $15 for the printer - I'm just guessing here. Don't know if either item works, but I wouldn't mind going back and testing if someone can tell me what to test on them. If anyone is interested, let me know off list what your target and max price is and I'll go haggle for ya, or if you'd prefer, put you in contact with the store directly. I wouldn't tack on any additional cost except whatever shipping costs to you. Regards, Jay West From west at tseinc.com Fri Dec 29 17:45:52 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: OT (sortof) wanted items (cart & logic analyzer stuff) Message-ID: <001f01c071f1$7b644600$468653d1@fozzie> I'm looking for some accessory items related indirectly to my computer collecting/repairing - can't seem to find them, so thought I'd ask here: I love my HP 1631D logic analyzer, but it takes up way too much real estate on my bench. I'd like to get a mobil cart for it, but virtually all the scopecarts I've seen (like the tek 200) are for small scopes & such... the 1631D analyzer is 16.5 inches across the middle, and 17 inches across the front (the bezel sticks out a bit on each side). Would anyone have a scope cart (like a tek 212 or similar) that is for wider instruments that is excess and would consider selling/trading? Second, I'm looking for various disassemblers for the 1631D... these came on 3.5 floppy, but I'm not sure what all disassemblers were available for it. Anyone got this software laying around? If anyone can help, contact me off-list at west@tseinc.com Thanks! Jay West From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Dec 29 18:00:21 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: VR13-DA specs? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001229155906.021437b0@208.226.86.10> I've got a DEC monitor labelled VRT13-DA, it has a 9 pin color input. Does anyone have the specs for this monitor? Can it do 1280 x 1024 or is it 1024 x 768? Does anyone know the pinout for it? --Chuck From jhellige at earthlink.net Fri Dec 29 17:54:25 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: stuff available in STL, Heath & TRS-80 In-Reply-To: <001701c071ef$df1e4800$468653d1@fozzie> References: <001701c071ef$df1e4800$468653d1@fozzie> Message-ID: >Heath Computer Systems model H-101-20. This system looks vaguely like an >HP85 case, but no internal monitor. Might be pre-PC, but could be an x86 dos >system too - I have no idea. Wouldn't that be the kit version of the Zenith Z-100? Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From marvin at rain.org Fri Dec 29 19:23:35 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: It had to happen sometime References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001229155906.021437b0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <3A4D3917.5457F627@rain.org> I was looking at the Heath Listserver messages and here is the URL of a disassembled Heathkit "kit" selling on Ebay. Current price (someone has too much money on their hands) is $103.50. The URL is: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=532822189 The next thing will most likely be similar computer "kits". There was a discussion on the Heath listserver about this unit and Chuck Pension spoke about this type of activity being another cottage industry. Anyone interested in a disassembled Heathkit H-89, or H-11, or ... :). From oliv555 at arrl.net Fri Dec 29 19:27:46 2000 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: Board ID needed References: <3A45F0EF.187@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <3A4D3A12.4BB143A3@arrl.net> Well, finally dug up my old Able boards brochure. The 10046 board is described as the Interlink/UNI. It emulates and is software compatible with the DEC DR11B. It also emulates the DEC DA11-B allowing computer link operation between 2 Unibus machines with a second 10046 or link with a Qbus system when used with the Interlink/LSI, 10049. Anyway, that was the sales pitch. $1600 in 1984. nick o wanderer wrote: > > A good day to all, > > I have found a board of which I would like to know where it is used > for. > > It seems to be made by ACT, and has the following numbers, 10046001 REV > C, 10046002 REV C, 10046-0. It is a hex slot board, and there are two > 50 pin connectors on top. Above the A/B slots, there are 2 connectors > where a regular(?) dual card can be placed in. There are no special > chips other than the regular 74xx types. > > +------------------------------+ > | xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx | > | J1 J2 | > | +-======-======-+ > | | > | | > | s | > | s | > | s s | > | s s | > +xxxxxx--xxxxxx--xxxxxx--xxxxxx--xxxxxx--xxxxxx+ > |||||| |||||| |||||| |||||| |||||| |||||| > > s = switch pack > > Thanks, > > Ed > > -- > The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. > quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: > zakkenvullers > http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. > Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | > '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 29 19:40:00 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: Memtest86, then HD won't boot. In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20001229021854.009efa10@mail.vikingelectronics.com> References: <001301c0711e$428f0280$1192fea9@idcomm.com> <200012282145.NAA06775@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: I downloaded the Memtest86 program and ran it on my HP Pavillion (typical K6-2 366 w98 box) and it passed after an all night run. Trouble is now the darn thing won't boot from the hard drive, reporting NO OS. The hard drive just clicks for a minute or so, then I get the No OS message. I have booted from a floppy, and plan to try booting from the CD, but looks like I may be making a trip to Fry's et al for a dose of Norton or some such to try and repair it. OTOH tomorrow is TRW hamfest, so I bet I can pick up something cheap. This is more of a warning than asking for help, but I will list a few details in case something is obvious. Memtest86 downloads to a folder with rawwrite, a .bin image, and a installer script that looks like it runs with a MS installer of some kind in a DOS window. It took me a couple tries to get a good floppy formatted and Memtest86 installed and working on it (you install to a floppy and boot from it), but about the third try a typical DOS looking text screen came up, and I set the test to running and left it all night. This morning I selected Exit from the test, and the hard drive started making a clicking resetting sound and hasn't worked correctly since. I have to wait for the HD to time out, then I can go into setup, which I did selecting load defaults and reseting the configuration. No change. Booting from a W98 floppy, scandisk doesn't see a drive and I haven't been willing to mess with it much via fdisk. Like I said, not really a call for help, just a this is what I did and where it got me, so be carefull with memtest86. From jpero at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 29 15:22:12 2000 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: Memtest86, then HD won't boot. In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.2.1.0.20001229021854.009efa10@mail.vikingelectronics.com> Message-ID: <20001230022141.YMHZ16490.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> Hi, > I have to wait for the HD to time out, then I can go into setup, which I > did selecting load defaults and reseting the configuration. No change. When you're in that setup, did it report that hd exists. If not, it's dead or poorly hooked up? Some hds won't answer till onboard microcontroller makes few test seeks. If can't do that, it stays mute to the outside world. > > Booting from a W98 floppy, scandisk doesn't see a drive and I haven't been > willing to mess with it much via fdisk. I test to make sure hd is not totally gone if the bios detects the hd then run that fdisk. if it sees it, hit 4. Data and partitions still there? Good, then I'd redo the mbr w/ fdisk/mbr and make sure bootable partition is active. > Like I said, not really a call for help, just a this is what I did and > where it got me, so be carefull with memtest86. I think your hd is WD by chance? That what a bad WD does. Click clack click clack. Oh, wasn't that download was scanned for viruses/tojans? Cheers, Wizard From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 29 20:50:56 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: David Gesswein "Re: VT78 - lots of questions" (Dec 29, 15:46) References: <200012292046.PAA30403@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <10012300250.ZM23010@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 29, 15:46, David Gesswein wrote: > >From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) > >> 40 pin connector is numbered > >> > >> 1 (A) 39 (UU) > >> 2 (B) 40 (VV) > > > >ObNitpick: That's the reverse of the conventional numbering; Berg > >connectors with letters have the red stripe at the A end, which is on the > >left of the pin header (looking into the pins) while all other headers > >which are numbered have pin 1 on the right. > > Yup, how about > Looking into pins of 40 pin male connector numbering is > > 2 (A) 40 (UU) > 1 (B) 39 (VU) > > I think both the numbers are letters were otherwise correct, just the > summary diagram was wrong. That wasn't what I meant. Berg label the connector pins starting from the opposite end of the connector from the rest of the world, so what I meant was that on actual connectors, the pins are: 39 (B) ... 1 (VV) 40 (A) ... 2 (UU) or more completely: 39B 37D 35F 33J 31L 29N 27R 25T 23V 21X 19Z 17BB 15DD 13FF 11JJ 9LL 7NN 5RR 3TT 1VV 40A 38C 36E 34H 32K 30M 28P 26S 24U 22W 20Y 18AA 16CC 14EE 12HH 10KK 8MM 6PP 4SS 2UU Thus on a cable with a Berg connector, the stripe corresponds to pin A and goes on the left (as you look into the male connector), and on any other similar connector (3M, T&B Ansley, ITT, Amphenol, Fujitsu, Molex, etc pin headers but not D-connectors, for example) the stripe corresponds to pin 1 but goes on the right. That's one of the reasons so many DEC cables have a "THIS WAY UP" sticker. Of course, if you use the conventional numbering above, you need to change your table as well (I've put the numbers in brackets, since it IS a Berg connector, after all): DB25 40 pin header 1 C (38) 14 D (37) 2 H (34) 15 J (33) 3 M (30) 16 N (29) 4 S (26) 17 T (25) 5 W (22) 18 X (21) 6 AA (18) 19 BB (17) 7 EE (14) 20 FF (13) 8 KK (10) 21 LL (9) 9 PP (6) 22 RR (5) 10 SS (4) 23 TT (3) 11 UU (2) 24 VV (1) I've put AA where you had CC -- both are ground on the M7744, but it seems more logical to pair AA and BB, rather than BB and CC. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From webmaster at ipom.com Fri Dec 29 21:07:44 2000 From: webmaster at ipom.com (Phil Dibowitz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: 1 Question (CRT), 1 Suggestion (the list) Message-ID: <3A4D5180.BE866067@ipom.com> Hey all, I have one question... one of the suggestions I received about my CRT was to resolder all the connections at the back of the CRT... and I was wondering... do I need to reheat the solder that's there, or do I need to take that solder off and put a new drop on? Also, to whomever run/owns the list... is it possible to get a digest version up and running. I'm relatively certain there is none currently, I searched the site a month or so back when I joined the list. Thanks. Phil -- Insanity Palace of Metallica www.ipom.com webmaster@ipom.com -- From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 29 20:59:01 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: stuff available in STL, Heath & TRS-80 In-Reply-To: <001701c071ef$df1e4800$468653d1@fozzie> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, Jay West wrote: > Heath Computer Systems model H-101-20. This system looks vaguely like an > HP85 case, but no internal monitor. Might be pre-PC, but could be an x86 dos > system too - I have no idea. It's probably a Z-100 model 20. A hybrid 8086/8085 with an S-100 bus. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Fri Dec 29 21:02:03 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: Memtest86, then HD won't boot. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Dec 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > This morning I selected Exit from the test, and the hard drive started > making a clicking resetting sound and hasn't worked correctly since. <...> > Like I said, not really a call for help, just a this is what I did and > where it got me, so be carefull with memtest86. Sounds like a hard drive crash that was waiting to happen and it just happened to happen when you ran Memtest86. Coincidence. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From Glenatacme at aol.com Fri Dec 29 23:01:34 2000 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: Memtest86, then HD won't boot. Message-ID: In a message dated 12/29/2000 9:13:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, mikeford@socal.rr.com writes: > Like I said, not really a call for help, just a this is what I did and > where it got me, so be carefull with memtest86. I downloaded and ran Memtest86 on my Cel 500 w/144 MB SDRAM. The memory passed and the machine suffered no harm. As Sellam and Wizard suggested, it was probably just a coincidence that your hdd croaked after running this program. Also, your mention that it took you 3 attempts to create the bootable disk suggests that your download may have been faulty. If the code was damaged during transmission then it's possible that running the program could have caused trash to be written to the hdd. Or maybe your fdd is flaky and the boot disk wasn't right. A bummer, at any rate :>( Glen 0/0 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Dec 29 23:24:36 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: OT: help... Message-ID: <002601c07222$7fb7f270$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >> This one uses only direct mains (160V). That bothers me less as it >> can't reach out abnd get me. > >That's fairly unusual (most manufacturers these days make PSUs that can >be adapted for use on both 115V and 230V). Doen't even have an IEC cord set, strictly domestic. mains come in through EMI line filters and gow through a bridge and cap hence the ~160V. >I'd still be careful of 160V DC at considerable current. It could be >fatal if you connect yourself across it. Personnally, I treat any voltage >over 50V with great respect. Don't have to tell me. I've been kicked mor than once by Oscope supplies and once by RCA VHF low (35mhz) 500W. >But insulation breakdown is relatively rare. There are a lot of >unpleasant voltages on the PCB tracks of most monitors just waiting for >you to touch them though. Which is why I maintain that in general the EHT >is the least of your worries. Some of them really spikey and feel bad too. >I would regard most monitors as being a lot safer to work on than valve >transmitters... No, most monitors these days can stand up without the cover and are mains powered. At least Valve Tx are transformer isolated and commercial gear well caged abd often interlocked. >Right. A total breakdown of the flyback can cause this as well There's >one winding connected from the main output of the PSU (around 100-150V) >and the collector of the HOT. There's normally at least one winding with >a tap connected to chassis. A short between them cna shut down the PSU. > >If it's not a short there, then a shorted vertical output IC will trip >the PSU in some monitors. I suspect the driving transistor to the HOT. >Some monitors, particurlarly multiple-frequency types have _separate_ >output transistors for the horizontal scan and the EHT generation, the >latter driving the flyback. Sometimes there are other transistors (or >MOSFETs) switching capacitors in the various output stages when you >change scan rates so as to retune the flyback. Shorts in any of the >semiconductors will shut down the PSU. sounds like this one. >> the test was to bridge the likely candidates.. no joy. > >I'd suspect _all_ aluminium electrolytics. I once had an Xterminal PSU It's not that old, maybe 6 years max. I'll poke some more but, at 130$ for a new{and better} one I'm not sure it's worth a lot of effort. Allison From marvin at rain.org Fri Dec 29 23:51:18 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: 1 Question (CRT), 1 Suggestion (the list) References: <3A4D5180.BE866067@ipom.com> Message-ID: <3A4D77D6.F41497CA@rain.org> Phil Dibowitz wrote: > > Hey all, > I have one question... one of the suggestions I received about my > CRT was to resolder all the connections at the back of the CRT... > and I was wondering... do I need to reheat the solder that's > there, or do I need to take that solder off and put a new drop > on? I usually decide to remove/leave the existing solder based on how clean it looks. In either case, I'll almost always add external rosin flux as it seems to greatly improve the reliability of the solder joints! From THETechnoid at home.com Sat Dec 30 01:26:42 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: Cloning IDE drives In-Reply-To: <200012291222.KAA10224@ccii.co.za> Message-ID: <20001230073004.XLNG16755.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Just install the new drive as the second drive. Create a partition on it and format it for the correct filesystem (fat16/fat32). Boot windows. Open a command prompt. Type "unlock" after you come back to the prompt, enter : XCOPY c:. d:. /c /h /e /r /y /k exactly as above including spaces between arguments. This will move the entire contents of the original drive to the new one including makeing the drive bootable and ready to go as the main drive. Swap drives physically and enjoy. Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 30 01:46:00 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI References: <02fd01c071c5$26be8510$bd769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <002e01c07234$8fc51e60$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Well, Allison, you're memory's getting to be like mine. I've got three of the 2266's and they all seem to agree they're about 1GB in capacity. BTW, the drives don't seem to have a problem with the SCSI-1/SCSI-2 thing, but the software, often written the way it is because the authors weren't born before SCSI-2, don't realize that they get the same effect using the SCSI-1 command set. As stupidly as SCSI is used on PC's, no overlapped seeks, no command queuing, no disconnect, little use of synchronous mode, they're not even getting SCSI-1 performance. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "ajp166" To: Sent: Friday, December 29, 2000 11:26 AM Subject: Re: IBM-PC and SCSI > >I recently picked up a Fujitsu M2266SA HDD. This is a 1M SCSI > 5 1/2 " drive with a black bezel like the IBM-PC MFM drives and > > > Ah thats 10mb if memory serves. > > >will fit in the same space. The vendor said it was SCSI-1 but > TheRef says it is SCSI-2 and Fujitsu doesn't say. > > > Difference is max data rate and some higher level commands > added. SCSI-II is backward compatable. > > >I have a heavily modified PC(5150) with an Intel 386 Onboard card > as Allison has on her Leading Edge 8086 (BTW, I have a lead > >ajp < to someone that has the mem-expander daughter card) > > > It's an Inboard386... a meg or memory for that would be great > if possible. > > >However I have no info on whether it would be possible to add a > SCSI card to an IBM-PC. I have an Adaptec 1522A ISA SCSI card > and likely others in my card box. Was there a SCSI card for the > PC ? If so, would this possibly, with this configuration, allow you to > > > It's doable, the only reason SCSI was not commonplace in PCs > the was the significantly greater cost at the time. Also back then > PCs could barely enjoy the potential performance advantage. > > Allison > > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Dec 30 02:04:03 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:55 2005 Subject: More VAX info ... Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001230000302.027e21e0@208.226.86.10> I've updated my "House of VAX" pages at Check it out, especially the 'panels' section that talks about console bulkheads. --Chuck From quapla at xs4all.nl Sat Dec 30 06:04:46 2000 From: quapla at xs4all.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Board ID needed References: <3A45F0EF.187@xs4all.nl> <3A4D3A12.4BB143A3@arrl.net> Message-ID: <3A4DCF5E.531B@xs4all.nl> Hello Nick, Thanks for the info, since I have only one of these an I have no use for it, is anybody intrested in it? $10 + postage. no wrote: > > Well, finally dug up my old Able boards brochure. The 10046 board > is described as the Interlink/UNI. > > It emulates and is software compatible with the DEC DR11B. It also > emulates the DEC DA11-B allowing computer link operation between > 2 Unibus machines with a second 10046 or link with a Qbus system > when used with the Interlink/LSI, 10049. > > Anyway, that was the sales pitch. $1600 in 1984. > > nick o > > wanderer wrote: > > > > A good day to all, > > > > I have found a board of which I would like to know where it is used > > for. > > > > It seems to be made by ACT, and has the following numbers, 10046001 REV > > C, 10046002 REV C, 10046-0. It is a hex slot board, and there are two > > 50 pin connectors on top. Above the A/B slots, there are 2 connectors > > where a regular(?) dual card can be placed in. There are no special > > chips other than the regular 74xx types. > > > > +------------------------------+ > > | xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx | > > | J1 J2 | > > | +-======-======-+ > > | | > > | | > > | s | > > | s | > > | s s | > > | s s | > > +xxxxxx--xxxxxx--xxxxxx--xxxxxx--xxxxxx--xxxxxx+ > > |||||| |||||| |||||| |||||| |||||| |||||| > > > > s = switch pack > > > > Thanks, > > > > Ed > > > > -- > > The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. > > quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: > > zakkenvullers > > http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. > > Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | > > '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! -- The Wanderer | Politici zijn gore oplichters. quapla@xs4all.nl | Europarlementariers: zakkenvullers http://www.xs4all.nl/~quapla | en neuspeuteraars. Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | '97 TL1000S | WEG MET DE TOLPOORTEN!! From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sat Dec 30 04:27:38 2000 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Mac Portable References: <20001230073004.XLNG16755.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <008b01c0724b$231d2480$1812f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> I just finished swapping motherboards on some Mac Portables and am amazed that you can do this without having to turn a single screw. In fact, you can take the whole thing apart using a flat head screw driver -- but only to pry up some edges. Can't think of any PC ever that is or was that easy to work on, and certainly can't think of a portable that comes anywhere close. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Dec 30 04:37:33 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Memtest86, then HD won't boot. In-Reply-To: <20001230022141.YMHZ16490.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20001229021854.009efa10@mail.vikingelectronics.com> Message-ID: Looks like simple drive go splort. Maxtor diagnostic shows, reset pass, recal fail, and tells me to call customer support with error code UK. Lots of warranty left, and I already popped another Maxtor, a 18 GB, into the system and its formatted and being restored right now. I'm chalking it up to another notch for the wish I done a backup recently, but I was planning on a full restore soon to tackle a no sound problem. I wish the people that design drive bays and the people who design 3.5" to 5.25" adapters could meet each other, and perhaps later be fed to rats, but overall not too painfull. With the recovery just started, and 4 hours til I want to leave for TRW hamfest, sleep isn't looking too likely. Thanks all for your help, and I dispell any doubt cast on Memtest86. (no plans to use it though either. ;) From johnmalc at conxion.gr Sat Dec 30 06:04:54 2000 From: johnmalc at conxion.gr (John Malcolm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Zenith laptop Message-ID: <000701c07258$bacd9e60$12a359d4@john> I have just acquired a Zenith Data Systems laptop, model number ZFL-184-01. It appears to be working ok but I have no software for it. It has two low density floppy drives, A and B, but will not boot to a Dos disk so I presume it requires some machine-specific software. If anyone out there can put me in touch with a website where I can download such software I would be very grateful. I specialise in keeping old machines running but this one has me beat. Thanks John Malcolm (in Greece) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001230/fc437932/attachment.html From jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au Sat Dec 30 05:40:34 2000 From: jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au (Hans Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Mac Portable References: <20001230073004.XLNG16755.femail7.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> <008b01c0724b$231d2480$1812f4d8@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <003701c07255$54087180$3adc8490@nsw.bigpond.net.au> IBM's first series of PS2's (models 50, 70 etc) could be fully disassembled using only fingers and a little plastic tool supplied inside the case. Never hear of a portable that easy though. ----- Original Message ----- From: Wayne M. Smith To: Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 9:27 PM Subject: Mac Portable > I just finished swapping motherboards on some Mac > Portables and am amazed that you can do this without > having to turn a single screw. In fact, you can take > the whole thing apart using a flat head screw driver -- > but only to pry up some edges. Can't think of any PC > ever that is or was that easy to work on, and certainly > can't think of a portable that comes anywhere close. > From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Dec 30 09:18:37 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions References: <200012292046.PAA30403@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <3A4DFCCD.AB4BC2BD@idirect.com> >David Gesswein wrote: > I also added the VT78 to RX01/RX02 cable pinout Jerome Fine replies: I have followed this thread, but I am still not sure what a VT78 does. Is it similar to a VT103 for a PDP-11? If not, I am curious. The VT103 had a 4 * 4 Qbus backplane inside a VT100. It could run (within the limits of an inadequate power supply) almost any PDP-11 Qbus system that could be set up to use just the 4 quad slots. For example: M8192-YB DLV11-J Camington memory - 4 MBytes SDC-RQD11-EC (with boot ROM) - Quad ESDI controller DHQ11 - 8 more serial channels TQK70 Naturally, I put the 4 * ESDI hard drives on an external PC power supply. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 30 10:11:18 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: IBM-PC and SCSI Message-ID: <005101c0727c$b506d950$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Richard Erlacher >Well, Allison, you're memory's getting to be like mine. I've got three of >the 2266's and they all seem to agree they're about 1GB in capacity. Well, I knew it wasnt a 1mb drive as the smallest thing I'd ever seen as scsi was 10mb. >BTW, the drives don't seem to have a problem with the SCSI-1/SCSI-2 thing, >but the software, often written the way it is because the authors weren't >born before SCSI-2, don't realize that they get the same effect using the >SCSI-1 command set. As stupidly as SCSI is used on PC's, no overlapped >seeks, no command queuing, no disconnect, little use of synchronous mode, >they're not even getting SCSI-1 performance. No question about that. PC software and OSs generally dont use scsi well. My standard of comparison is PDP-11/RSTS or RSX and VAX/VMS where they work a disk hard! Allison From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 30 09:58:14 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: Jerome Fine "Re: VT78 - lots of questions" (Dec 30, 10:18) References: <200012292046.PAA30403@drs-esg.com> <3A4DFCCD.AB4BC2BD@idirect.com> Message-ID: <10012301558.ZM23369@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 30, 10:18, Jerome Fine wrote: > I have followed this thread, but I am still not sure what a VT78 does. > > Is it similar to a VT103 for a PDP-11? Well, "yes" and "no". It's basically a VT52 with extras which make it a sort of PDP-8, in the same sense that a VT103 is a VT100 with extras that make it a sort of PDP-11. However, there's no backplane, so you can't change the mix of boards (to use a different CPU, SLU, disk controller, etc); the layout is fixed and based around a Harris 6100 chip (roughly a PDP-8E on a chip, with some restrictions -- but I'm not a PDP-8 expert). It uses RX01 or RX02 floppies in a separate cabinet and runs OS/278 which is a modified version of OS/8 version 3 (I think?). I believe it's capable of running some other PDP-8 OS's too -- but I'm getting beyond my knowledge about there. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 30 11:10:47 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: stuff available in STL, Heath & TRS-80 In-Reply-To: <001701c071ef$df1e4800$468653d1@fozzie> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001230121047.096f2c36@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 05:34 PM 12/29/00 -0600, you wrote: >While browsing through my usual electronics surplus haunts today in St. >Louis, I came across the following items for sale in a local shop. I have no >interest in them, but thought someone here might? If so, email me off-list. > >Heath Computer Systems model H-101-20. This system looks vaguely like an >HP85 case, but no internal monitor. Might be pre-PC, but could be an x86 dos >system too - I have no idea. This is essentually a Z-100 but without the built-in monitor. I THINK they had a composite video output. It runs CPM or a non-IBM version of MS-DOS. The H-xxx models are the same as the Z-xxx models except the were sold by Heathkit and were kits and the Zenith Z-xxx models were pre-assembled. If no one else wants the H-101, I wouldn't mind having it to add to my Z-100 collection. > >Radio Shack DWP-210 printer. Has a manual with it. > >Neither of these items had a price tag on them yet, but from past experience >I'd say this store would likely be tagging it around $40 for the puter and >$15 for the printer - I'm just guessing here. Don't know if either item >works, but I wouldn't mind going back and testing if someone can tell me >what to test on them. There are some test functions built into ROM on the Z-100 so you can test memory and do a few other things without disks IF you can connect a monitor. Let me know if you need details. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 30 11:57:50 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Software for Northstar Advantage 8/16? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001230125750.096fc9ce@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:13 PM 12/27/00 -0500, Bear wrote: >On Wed, 27 Dec 2000, Rich Beaudry wrote: > >> Would anyone happen to have either Graphics/DOS or Graphics/BASIC for this >> machine? I have complete manuals for them, but no disks :-( > >I have some software for the Advantage, but I'll have to check the >inventory after I get home this evening before I can say for sure whether >I have this particular software. > >> Also, I heard that the Northstars use hard-sectored 5.25" disks. Is this >> true? > >Yes, it is true. I'm nearly certain they were 10-sectored. I don't know about the 8/16 but the NS Advantage does use 10 sectored hard sectored floppy disks. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 30 12:02:33 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Software for Northstar Advantage 8/16? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20001230130233.3cff47a0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:44 PM 12/27/00 -0500, you wrote: >Rich, > I also acquired a Northstar Advantage..though my system has a flakey >keyboard otherwise it works great (at least with the 1 disk I have). I'd >love to trade software & notes with you. > >Any ideas where to get hard sectored disks today? There WAS a guy that was selling a lot of NS software on E-bay a while back. I bought several sets of software from him just for the disks. I think most of the lots included ten HS disks and ended costing about $8 or $9 per set. I thought the price was very reasonable. Has anyone tried to take a soft-sectored disks and add more holes to it and see if it would work? I don't know how critical the spacing would be. Joe From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sat Dec 30 11:30:31 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: <10012301558.ZM23369@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from Pete Turnbull at "Dec 30, 2000 03:58:14 pm" Message-ID: <200012301730.eBUHUVa00838@bg-tc-ppp816.monmouth.com> > On Dec 30, 10:18, Jerome Fine wrote: > > > I have followed this thread, but I am still not sure what a VT78 does. > > > > Is it similar to a VT103 for a PDP-11? > > Well, "yes" and "no". It's basically a VT52 with extras which make it a > sort of PDP-8, in the same sense that a VT103 is a VT100 with extras that > make it a sort of PDP-11. However, there's no backplane, so you can't > change the mix of boards (to use a different CPU, SLU, disk controller, > etc); the layout is fixed and based around a Harris 6100 chip (roughly a > PDP-8E on a chip, with some restrictions -- but I'm not a PDP-8 expert). > It uses RX01 or RX02 floppies in a separate cabinet and runs OS/278 which > is a modified version of OS/8 version 3 (I think?). I believe it's capable > of running some other PDP-8 OS's too -- but I'm getting beyond my knowledge > about there. > > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > Network Manager > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > > Consider it a PDP-8 version of a PDT11/130 with better disk drives. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Dec 30 11:35:55 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: <10012301558.ZM23369@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> References: <200012292046.PAA30403@drs-esg.com> <3A4DFCCD.AB4BC2BD@idirect.com> <10012301558.ZM23369@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: >Well, "yes" and "no". It's basically a VT52 with extras which make it a >sort of PDP-8, in the same sense that a VT103 is a VT100 with extras that >make it a sort of PDP-11. However, there's no backplane, so you can't >change the mix of boards (to use a different CPU, SLU, disk controller, >etc); the layout is fixed and based around a Harris 6100 chip (roughly a >PDP-8E on a chip, with some restrictions -- but I'm not a PDP-8 expert). I believe it was DEC's first microprocessor based PDP-8 family machine, followed not long after by the DECmate series. Here's the info that appears in the 'PDP-8 Summary of Models and Options' by Douglas Jones: ---------------------------------------------------- Subject: What is a VT78? Date of introduction: 1978 Date of withdrawal: 1980 (Displaced by the DECmate) Also known as: DECstation DECstation 78 Price: $7,995 ($5,436 in lots of 100) Technology: Based on the Intersil/Harris 6100 microprocessor, packaged in a VT52 case. The 6100 processor was able to run at 4 MHz, but in the VT78, it was only clocked at 2.2 MHz because of the speed of the DRAM used and the deliberate use of graded out chips. Reason for introduction: Using TTL MSI and LSI components, DEC could pack a system into the vacant space in a standard terminal case, allowing PDP-8 systems to compete with personal computers in the small business and office automation market. This was a natural follow-on to the desk-mounted workstation configurations in which the PDP-8/A was already being sold. Compatability: The Group I OPR combinations RAL RAR and RTL RTR are no-ops. Unlike all earlier PDP-8 models, autoindex locations 10 to 17 (octal) only work in page zero mode; these operate like all other memory locations when addressed in current page mode from code running on page zero. Other than this, it is fully PDP-8/E compatable, even at the level of I/O instructions for the standard periperals; this was the last PDP-8 to offer this level of compatability. It was not possible to continue from a halt without restarting the machine. In addition, none of the peripherals available on this machine needed DMA (data break) transfers. Standard configuration: The VT78 was sold with 16k words of DRAM with the keyboard and display of the VT52 terminal. An RX01 dual 8" diskette drive was included, packaged in a teacart pedestal under the terminal. The console (device 03/04) and the serial ports (devices 30/31 and 32/33) are compatible with the M8650 KL8E, with the latter extended to allow software controlled baud rate selection. There are two parallel ports; device 66 (compatible with the M8365 printer controller) and device 47, compatible with the nonstandard port on the M8316 DKC8AA. There is also a 100Hz clock compatible with the clock on the M8316 DKC8AA. The standard ROM boots the system from the RX01 after setting the baud rates to match that selected by the switches on the bottom of the VT52 case. Expandability: This was a closed system, with few options. The base configuration was able to support two RX01 drives (later RX02), for a total of 4 transports. Various boot ROM's were available, including a paper-tape RIM loader ROM for loading diagnostics from tape. Another ROM boots the system from a PDP-11 server in the client/server configuration used by WPS-11. Survival: There are probably many VT78 systems still in use. ------------------------------------------------- -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From claudew at sprint.ca Sat Dec 30 12:51:07 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Too much stuff in my basement series : 4 Apple Nubus 4/16 Token Rings cards free/trade Message-ID: <3A4E2E9B.4A446EDC@sprint.ca> Hi Once again way too much stuff here in my basement... 4 of these Apple Nubus Token Ring cards. Not tested. They look fine. Assy 670-4418 Will be going into garbage soon (next days) or will give away or trade for anything that can interest me. I collect mostly 197x-198x micros... See my crappy web site for more stuff to give away/trade... http://computer_collector.tripod.com Shipping from Montreal, Canada. Expect shipping to cost about $8 can or $5 US. Claude Canuk Computer Collector From claudew at sprint.ca Sat Dec 30 13:06:17 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Too much stuff in my basement series : DEC RX50-AA Rev.B Drives free/trade Message-ID: <3A4E3229.588BC33E@sprint.ca> Hi Must get back some space in basement Too many of these here. I think I have 3. Maybe 4 Not tested. Good cosmetic shape. I dont wanna collect this type of DEC stuff. Going into garbage soon. Will give them away free or will accept anything that might interest me in return. I collect mostly 197x-198x micros. See my crappy website for more stuff to trade/give away (I dont want money) http://computer_collector.tripod.com Shipping from Montreal, Canada Expect shipping to be around $10CAN/$6US per drive approx. Claude Canuk Computer Collector From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Dec 30 16:00:47 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: NCR Decision Mate V Message-ID: <3A4DEA8F.12210.32E00EB@localhost> A friend of mine who's just beginning to collect found an NCR Decision Mate V but no K-B. She tried an XT one and got a "keyboard error" so it is working. The info I found on it says it's a CP/M-DOS hybrid needing a special DOS version or CPM 2.2 Anyone out there with a spare keyboard or know a possible substitute ? I understand it had 22 function keys (???) and a QWERTZ layout. If so she'd also likely need a manual. Any further details would also be appreciated. Thanks larry Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Dec 30 16:00:47 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Zenith laptop In-Reply-To: <000701c07258$bacd9e60$12a359d4@john> Message-ID: <3A4DEA8F.23435.32E00AF@localhost> > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C07269.7C899DA0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > I have just acquired a Zenith Data Systems laptop, model number = > ZFL-184-01. It appears to be working ok but I have no software for it. > = It has two low density floppy drives, A and B, but will not boot to > a = Dos disk so I presume it requires some machine-specific software. > If = anyone out there can put me in touch with a website where I can > download = such software I would be very grateful. I specialise in > keeping old = machines running but this one has me beat. > > Thanks > > John Malcolm (in Greece) I have a ZFA-161 which is a luggable box. Mine has a nice little monitor program in ROM and I imagine yours does as well. Try Ctrl-Alt-Ins. It should work with an early Dos version but possibly has some additional config. because it's a laptop. ISTR there was someone else on the list with one. You might check the archives. While there is considerable info and programs for the Z-100 systems there's not much on the PC clones. ciao larry too much Reply to: lgwalker@look.ca From claudew at sprint.ca Sat Dec 30 13:19:52 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Too much stuff in my basement series : Golden II apple clone give away/trade Message-ID: <3A4E3558.EB7EDB27@sprint.ca> Hi This going in garbage soon too. Golden II a popular Apple II clone. A few scratches on case. Rest ok. Not tested really. I guess I could if you ask me. Willing to give away or trade for anything that might interest me. I collect mostly micros from the 197x-198x...Not Apple clones...not enough space... Shipping from Montreal, Canada Expect it to be around $10US-$12US for shipping...I guess... See my crappy web site for more stuff to give away/trade. Not looking for $, just trades or give away... http://computer_collector.tripod.com Claude Canuk Computer Collector From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 30 14:23:47 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions Message-ID: <008601c0729e$ec58dda0$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Jeff Hellige > I believe it was DEC's first microprocessor based PDP-8 >family machine, followed not long after by the DECmate series. Correct, effectively decmate-I the VT52based version was the first and second was VT100 based then decmate-II/III. >Reason for introduction: Using TTL MSI and LSI components, DEC could > pack a system into the vacant space in a standard terminal case, > allowing PDP-8 systems to compete with personal computers in the > small business and office automation market. This was a natural > follow-on to the desk-mounted workstation configurations in which > the PDP-8/A was already being sold. Actually before 1980 there were very few "personal" computers so the VT78 was ahead of the pack somewhat. >Compatability: The Group I OPR combinations RAL RAR and RTL RTR are > no-ops. Unlike all earlier PDP-8 models, autoindex locations > 10 to 17 (octal) only work in page zero mode; these operate like > all other memory locations when addressed in current page mode > from code running on page zero. Other than this, it is fully > PDP-8/E compatable, even at the level of I/O instructions for > the standard periperals; this was the last PDP-8 to offer this > level of compatability. The 6120 chip also had this and improve it a little but they were actually the end of the PDP-8 family line! > the terminal. The console (device 03/04) and the serial ports > (devices 30/31 and 32/33) are compatible with the M8650 KL8E, > with the latter extended to allow software controlled baud rate > selection. There are two parallel ports; device 66 (compatible > with the M8365 printer controller) and device 47, compatible with > the nonstandard port on the M8316 DKC8AA. There is also a 100Hz > clock compatible with the clock on the M8316 DKC8AA. This is critical to most programs that would run on discrete PDP-8 systems would run on the VT78 where the later decmates had a sorta/nearly but not quite terminal emulation leading to OS/278 varient of OS-8. The emulation or existance of KL8e TTY interface at 3/4 was a defining standard for all PDP-8 software that used a terminal interface. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 30 14:30:10 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Software for Northstar Advantage 8/16? Message-ID: <009701c072a1$091e84b0$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Joe >take a soft-sectored disks and add more holes to it and see if it would >work? I don't know how critical the spacing would be. You would have to make an indexing punch, accurate to about 1-2% would be adaquate. The media is otherwise standard 360k DD. An alternate approach is to create a logic element that is synched to the index hole and provides 10 false index marks that corospond to the sector holes. A better drive like teac fd55A or B would work fine as their speed is likely more stable than the old SA400s. Years ago I did something similar to the NS* MDS-A controller to fake it so the indexhole (present in both hard and soft media) was the start and the Index sync logic would free run on finding the index hole. Mostly worked though I didn't try to hard to go further. Allison From jpero at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 30 09:49:13 2000 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Memtest86, then HD won't boot. In-Reply-To: References: <20001230022141.YMHZ16490.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> Message-ID: <20001230204840.ZETV14993.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> > Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 02:37:33 -0800 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Mike Ford > Subject: Re: Memtest86, then HD won't boot. > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Looks like simple drive go splort. Maxtor diagnostic shows, reset pass, Hmm.. Maxtor in your system? Pull that thing out again and suggest get IBM or Quantum instead. At two pc shops I work part-time, we still see few older WDs and any fujitsu (we don't sell these!) also maxtors die all over the map, in warr. and out of warrenty. Also helps to gain some performance back and cuts down on noise as well. Maxtor and Fujitsu is not exactly known for compareable performance in same areas. Quantum (too bad, it's still good on current hds but future is "?" and Q's disk unit group is owned by maxtor and IBM rare as hen's teeth for deaths. No sound, install sound chip drivers off the 'net instead of reaching for full restore. Oh yeah, saw working BMI "clone bigfoot style" once! Cheers, Wizard From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Dec 30 15:15:01 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: <008601c0729e$ec58dda0$bd769a8d@ajp166> References: <008601c0729e$ec58dda0$bd769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: >Correct, effectively decmate-I the VT52based version was the first >and second was VT100 based then decmate-II/III. I'm not sure about the DECmate III, but I know the II shares a few parts with the VT220 terminals. It also shares it's case with the Rainbow. Unfortunately, the II doesn't seem to have the built-in terminal emulation of the earlier machines. >The 6120 chip also had this and improve it a little but they were >actually the >end of the PDP-8 family line! The DECmate II is an interesting beast, but unfortunately it shares the hardware incompatabilities of the original DECmate, though it 'improves' on them. I have a II that is pretty loaded, with the APU, color, and hard disk options. One of these days I'll get it working again. It sounds like from a software compatability point that the VT78 might be the better choice for a micro able to run standard PDP-8 stuff. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From stuart at zen.co.uk Sat Dec 30 15:23:02 2000 From: stuart at zen.co.uk (Stuart) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: OT: wtd (uk) old chess computers Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.1.20001230212200.01fa8c70@mail.salford.ac.uk> looking for old chess computer games, esp Vulcan electronics MKV. Please mail if you have anything. Thanks. stu From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Dec 30 15:39:11 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: It had to happen sometime In-Reply-To: It had to happen sometime (Marvin) References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001229155906.021437b0@208.226.86.10> <3A4D3917.5457F627@rain.org> Message-ID: <14926.22015.913830.643123@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 29, Marvin wrote: > I was looking at the Heath Listserver messages and here is the URL of a > disassembled Heathkit "kit" selling on Ebay. Current price (someone has too > much money on their hands) is $103.50. The URL is: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=532822189 > > The next thing will most likely be similar computer "kits". There was a > discussion on the Heath listserver about this unit and Chuck Pension spoke > about this type of activity being another cottage industry. Anyone > interested in a disassembled Heathkit H-89, or H-11, or ... :). I thought you had to be smoking crack or something, Marvin; nobody would actuall *do* something like this...but I just looked at the auction. It's true. Be afraid. Be very afraid. Why do we have to stop at things that were originally kits? I can see it now: "DEC PDP-11/34a KIT! L@@K! RARE!!" Better start buying stock in ChemWik! -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Dec 30 15:51:13 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: OT (sortof) wanted items (cart & logic analyzer stuff) In-Reply-To: OT (sortof) wanted items (cart & logic analyzer stuff) (Jay West) References: <001f01c071f1$7b644600$468653d1@fozzie> Message-ID: <14926.22737.329634.385867@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 29, Jay West wrote: > I love my HP 1631D logic analyzer, but it takes up way too much real estate > on my bench. I'd like to get a mobil cart for it, but virtually all the > scopecarts I've seen (like the tek 200) are for small scopes & such... the > 1631D analyzer is 16.5 inches across the middle, and 17 inches across the > front (the bezel sticks out a bit on each side). Would anyone have a scope > cart (like a tek 212 or similar) that is for wider instruments that is > excess and would consider selling/trading? > > Second, I'm looking for various disassemblers for the 1631D... these came on > 3.5 floppy, but I'm not sure what all disassemblers were available for it. > Anyone got this software laying around? I didn't think the 1631D had a floppy drive...? I had an HP 54201 oscilloscope for a while; it was my understanding that the 1631D was basically a 54201 scope with an additional logic analysis module. I've been shopping around off & on for a new logic analyzer...would you recommend the 1631D? -Dave McGuire From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 30 16:30:09 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions Message-ID: <00b901c072b1$e66dfe80$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Jeff Hellige > The DECmate II is an interesting beast, but unfortunately it >shares the hardware incompatabilities of the original DECmate, though >it 'improves' on them. I have a II that is pretty loaded, with the One that it makes worse is the terminal emulation. Terminal interrupts are not supported in the same way as is TTY at 03/04 so the KL8e emulation is poor except for the most simple programs that poll the IO. The improvements is 32KW of ram (32kw for pannel mode as well) the possibility and support for a hard disk is nice. It's also faster though the DMIII is fasest of the lot. >working again. It sounds like from a software compatability point >that the VT78 might be the better choice for a micro able to run >standard PDP-8 stuff. It's closer but the RX01/2 IO is somewhat different than the omnibus companions. Also the chip versions while very close to PDP-8 are not exact for timing and OPR/ IOT instruction microprogramming is slightly different. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 30 13:21:18 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: 1 Question (CRT), 1 Suggestion (the list) In-Reply-To: <3A4D5180.BE866067@ipom.com> from "Phil Dibowitz" at Dec 29, 0 10:07:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1333 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001230/f2218b98/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 30 13:54:09 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: OT: help... In-Reply-To: <002601c07222$7fb7f270$bd769a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Dec 30, 0 00:24:36 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2241 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001230/a3626a8a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 30 17:19:48 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Dec 30, 0 04:15:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 722 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001230/1f85c867/attachment.ksh From west at tseinc.com Sat Dec 30 17:48:28 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: OT (sortof) wanted items (cart & logic analyzer stuff) References: <001f01c071f1$7b644600$468653d1@fozzie> <14926.22737.329634.385867@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <001101c072bb$0312fa00$468653d1@fozzie> Dave wrote... > I didn't think the 1631D had a floppy drive...? I had an HP 54201 > oscilloscope for a while; it was my understanding that the 1631D was > basically a 54201 scope with an additional logic analysis module. The 1631D doesn't have a floppy drive... but it does have an HP-IB port, and fully supports 9121S/D, 9122S/D, and 9122C floppy drives. The menus built into the 1631D have options for formatting floppies, listing directories, loading software (like the disassemblers), etc. The main use for the floppy is saving/loading instrument setups (settings, user defined labels, etc.). I'm not familiar with the 54201 but the basic specs on the 1631D are 100mhz timing with 16 channels, 25mhz state with 43 channels, and 2 analog channels (50mhz dual channel digitizing scope). If you get one used, make darn sure that it includes 5 probes, 5 clips, and at least *some* of those pesky grabber clips that are seemingly impossible to find. I'd kill for about 50 of those little grabbers, but I won't go so far as to pay the $100 bucks that a bag of 100 went for on ebay recently :) They don't generally come with a manual, but for copying charges at kinkos I'd send one to anyone that needs one. For printing, the 1631D officially supports the 2225A printer, but I suspect any HP-IB printer that supports "HP-GRAPHICS" would work too. I seem to recall my 1631D has a HP-IL connector too. > I've been shopping around off & on for a new logic analyzer...would > you recommend the 1631D? There's a 1631D on ebay... they seem to show up there frequently along with a lot of other logic analyzers. As I recall the one currently on epay is missing the pod clips though. I like my 1631D, I've been having an absolute blast hooking it up to some of my microprocessors and checking out the state and timing info, stuff I knew about but couldn't see in front of me easily. I believe I paid $395 for mine. Other than that, I'm not at all qualified to recommend one LA over another, I'm pretty much a neophyte at it. Of course, you want to make sure the LA you buy can handle the systems you normally work with... ie. is 25mhz state sufficient for a PDP-11/44? I haven't a clue, but I suspect it'll work with the Heath 3400 6080 trainer I just got :) Jay West From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 30 18:01:18 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Software for Northstar Advantage 8/16? In-Reply-To: <009701c072a1$091e84b0$bd769a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Dec 30, 0 03:30:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 920 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001231/771afc16/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Sat Dec 30 18:06:42 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Apart from the LK201 keyboard, and obviously standard electronic parts, >what other items are common between the DECmate II and the VT220? Don't the VT220 and VR201 share some parts as well? My VR201 got dropped a while back and that's the reason my DECmate isn't up and running. At this point, I'm not sure of the status of the hard disk in the machine either. I'd like to get something other than WPS running on it! Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 30 18:11:49 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: It had to happen sometime References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001229155906.021437b0@208.226.86.10><3A4D3917.5457F627@rain.org> <14926.22015.913830.643123@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <002c01c072be$457ac3c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Yep! That's what makes the eBay work! Somebody wants it (Heaven, only, knows why, but they do) so they're bidding. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 2:39 PM Subject: Re: It had to happen sometime > On December 29, Marvin wrote: > > I was looking at the Heath Listserver messages and here is the URL of a > > disassembled Heathkit "kit" selling on Ebay. Current price (someone has too > > much money on their hands) is $103.50. The URL is: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=53282 2189 > > > > The next thing will most likely be similar computer "kits". There was a > > discussion on the Heath listserver about this unit and Chuck Pension spoke > > about this type of activity being another cottage industry. Anyone > > interested in a disassembled Heathkit H-89, or H-11, or ... :). > > I thought you had to be smoking crack or something, Marvin; nobody > would actuall *do* something like this...but I just looked at the > auction. It's true. > > Be afraid. Be very afraid. > > Why do we have to stop at things that were originally kits? I can > see it now: "DEC PDP-11/34a KIT! L@@K! RARE!!" > > Better start buying stock in ChemWik! > > > -Dave McGuire > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 30 18:25:59 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: OT: help... Message-ID: <00c801c072c0$b5c3f6e0$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >> Doesn't even have an IEC cord set, strictly domestic. mains come in > >Odd.... Not really, domestic low cost version. saves a bit of money. >> Don't have to tell me. I've been kicked mor than once by Oscope supplies > >Yes, I know _you_ know, but this is a public list, and not everyone here >is used to working on high voltage stuff... True. I take it quite seriously. I was almost Blue Crossed 25 years ago when someone tried to help me while working on a 500W (output!) VHF commercial set. The turkey was thouching me when he reached into the plate compartment. We both flew about 12-15ft and he left via ambulence and if the combined shock and flight didn't hurt him I was going to. I was in some pain for days afterwards. >> No, most monitors these days can stand up without the cover and > ^^^ > can't ? Cant! confounded editor on this MS box like to go from insert to overstrike, very annoying. >True. It's often best to put them screen-down to work on them (and >certainly when removing or refitting the case). Trying to run them 'right >way up' with the case removed is a bad idea most of the time. that's the problem. though I do have a small carpet square to keep from scratching the screen. >In the UK, almost all the circuity in a monitor (and most TVs for that >matter) is isolated from the power line. There's a 'hot' SMPSU, of >course, but the flyback, video circuitry, etc are all isolated by the >chopper transformer. True in this case but many TVs are not. I have a color set I have to look at (color skewed to red) that is very unsafe... isolation Xfmer time. >I've heard that a lot more of the electronics in US TVs is 'hot' >(compared to what I am used to) -- surely that's not true of monitors as >well.. Yes! >That doesn't necessarily mean the capacitors are still good. Particularly >not with the cheap components used in consumer electronics. I'd be more >inclined to trust a 20-year-old capacitor from an HP or Tektronix >instrument than a 5-year-old one from a PC monitor. No arguement. We retired a leader LBO505 Oscope as unstable calibration due to bad caps yet the Tek 316 is still going strong and in calibration! Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 30 18:20:21 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: from "Jeff Hellige" at Dec 30, 0 07:06:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 776 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001231/9eff3aca/attachment.ksh From west at tseinc.com Sat Dec 30 18:19:27 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Heath H-101-20, more info References: <001701c071ef$df1e4800$468653d1@fozzie> Message-ID: <002d01c072bf$5691f560$468653d1@fozzie> Since someone spoke up right away, I went and got that heath system. I've already contacted the first person who responded with shipping details. However, in case others are interested in info on what the system was.... It does appear to be an S-100 system. I'm not qualified to say that since I am not into S100 stuff, but the cards inside it have 50 pins per side, and it looks like the pics I've seen of S100 stuff. Cards inside the system: ADS Promblaster II (Ackerman Digital Systems). This card has a ribbon cable exiting the system.... I assume it went to the actual shoebox case that you put the proms in. That box is nowhere to be found. Then theres a Winchester Disk Controller, which goes to an internal Rodime RO204 drive, and a Floppy disk controller with goes to a 5.25 floppy. The keyboard is missing the F12 key, and there is indeed a composite video out rca jack. Right beneath it is a DB9F, from a quick look at the cable internal I'm guessing it is mono out. There's also about 20 punchouts on the back... J1 through J18, plus a wide slot at the top for cables to exit. Some of the silver metal parts of the case inside look a small bit oxidized (weather?). It's not in particularly great shape, but I would say that if I found an HP1000 in this shape, I'd be quite happy to restore it. I have 3 pics of the unit (about 18k each) if anyone wants them via email (I'm too lazy to put them on the web) let me know. And when I went to pick it up, the store had put a price tag on it. It was $5.00. What a refreshing change from epay :) Now if anyone is walking through THEIR surplus haunts and finds any HP1000 cpus or HP 7900/7906 drives... let me know Jay West From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 30 18:31:12 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions Message-ID: <00cf01c072c3$2e2500a0$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >> I'm not sure about the DECmate III, but I know the II shares >> a few parts with the VT220 terminals. It also shares it's case with > >Apart from the LK201 keyboard, and obviously standard electronic parts, >what other items are common between the DECmate II and the VT220? CRT {assuming VR201}, and not much else. Though DecmateII/III does VT100/VT220 emulation. >I know the 'bow rather better than the DECmate, and I'd consider that >that machine has rather more in common with the VT100 than the VT220. For >example, the only 2 custom chips in a 'bow are the video timing chip and >video path chip on the motherboard, and those are identical to the chips >in a VT100. Sorta. sorta like saying all Z80 machines run CPM, not much commonality in a real sense. The chips are low level video timing and interface and do not really define VT100 or VT220 directly. The point being is VT100 uses 8080 or 8085 for smarts, VT220 uses 8051 and DECmate uses the COMS PDP-8 chip for the smarts. Allison From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 30 18:44:06 2000 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: OT (sortof) wanted items (cart & logic analyzer stuff) References: <001f01c071f1$7b644600$468653d1@fozzie> <14926.22737.329634.385867@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <003201c072c2$c7e57720$1192fea9@idcomm.com> What kind of equipment to you intend to work on with this new LA? I've used the HP 1630 though it's been about 15 years. It has some nice features. With today's fairly flexible (I/O) devices, however, you might find it interesting to build one that uses your PC as a display and acquires the sample memory contents from the device via the EPP. If you're really ambitious, perhaps USB would be appealing. It's certainly popular enough. If you're determined to buy a logic analyzer, the crux of the task is to find a unit that's not only fully functional but also fully complete. You need the documentation ... all of it, and you need the complete set of pods and whatever mechanism, usually an interface board, that is required to support it. You'll ultimately be disappointed if it's possible to have more channels than what you've got, so it's important you have enough channel boards, pods, and probe clips to support them all. There are usually pod testers that come with a new logic analyzer, and those often are the first thing that gets lost. Those are extremely necessary when you're having trouble gettin a setup to work, because they're the only way you have of restoring your confidence in the instrument. If there's some sort of method for storing and processing the sample data, either internally or externally, you certainly will want that capability. A spare pod is pretty useful, too, unless you think you will find one, which I, having searched the market pretty thoroughly at various times, doubt very much. I did find on, however. I've had several logic analyzers, and, in '92-93, due to the need for portability, decided to replace my bench-bound model for a portable, a TEK 1240, which is the monochrome (cheaper) version of their portable of the mid-late '80's. I found any number of incomplete LA's. Mostly, the pods and the sample boards were partly or completely missing. Documentation was not common, and, though I found some pods for sale, they were not complete, and none I was offered had documentation. Unfortunately, it's too easy to develop excessive or erroneous expectations of what the instrument will do if you don't have doc's so you'd better have them. I found several 1240/41's for <$250, but those were without pods, several were without the required sample boards, and none had documentation. I found pods, often costing more than $250 for a pair, again without documentation and, worse, without the lead sets and probe clips that you need to attach to a device under test. I was offered none of the "back-channel" devices, e.g. GPIB, RS-232 interface, or printer port, (TEK made one for the then-current EPSON printers). Finally I settled on a pretty complete one costing $1000. Though I've seldom been required to use it, I've had no reason (so far) to cuss it, and the only complaint I have is that there are never enough probe clips, and they always seem to get lost. They turn up again, but I have 150 or so of them, yet when I get anywhere near the 63 channels my logic analyzer supports, I've resorted to some "alternative" attachment scheme for some of the signals. That's not always pleasant. Before you buy, be ceratin that YOUR preferred triggering methods are supported. I've found triggering the most critical problem of logic analyzer application, and if there's even a single conceivable mode that isn't supported, THAT's the one you'll need, ... trust me. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave McGuire" To: Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 2:51 PM Subject: Re: OT (sortof) wanted items (cart & logic analyzer stuff) > On December 29, Jay West wrote: > > I love my HP 1631D logic analyzer, but it takes up way too much real estate > > on my bench. I'd like to get a mobil cart for it, but virtually all the > > scopecarts I've seen (like the tek 200) are for small scopes & such... the > > 1631D analyzer is 16.5 inches across the middle, and 17 inches across the > > front (the bezel sticks out a bit on each side). Would anyone have a scope > > cart (like a tek 212 or similar) that is for wider instruments that is > > excess and would consider selling/trading? > > > > Second, I'm looking for various disassemblers for the 1631D... these came on > > 3.5 floppy, but I'm not sure what all disassemblers were available for it. > > Anyone got this software laying around? > > I didn't think the 1631D had a floppy drive...? I had an HP 54201 > oscilloscope for a while; it was my understanding that the 1631D was > basically a 54201 scope with an additional logic analysis module. > > I've been shopping around off & on for a new logic analyzer...would > you recommend the 1631D? > > -Dave McGuire > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 30 18:50:49 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: OT: help... In-Reply-To: <00c801c072c0$b5c3f6e0$bd769a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Dec 30, 0 07:25:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2644 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001231/17633506/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 30 18:54:24 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: <00cf01c072c3$2e2500a0$bd769a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Dec 30, 0 07:31:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1149 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001231/a3fbb4e8/attachment.ksh From rachael_ at gmx.net Fri Dec 22 16:47:59 2000 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: 3 inch floppy drive? Message-ID: <616.391T2950T14274614rachael_@gmx.net> >On Fri, 22 Dec 2000, Joe wrote: > Some even reversed the +5 and +12vdc pin locations >in the power connector. (Talk about a dirty trick!) I did`nt check the pin location on a amstrad 3" externa drive as I tried to install a 3.5" floppy drive in it. Puff, the 3.5 floppy drive went up in smoke. Jacob Dahl Pind Public Pgp key available on request -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From marvin at rain.org Sat Dec 30 20:07:04 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: It had to happen sometime References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001229155906.021437b0@208.226.86.10> <3A4D3917.5457F627@rain.org> <14926.22015.913830.643123@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3A4E94C8.BD03F2C7@rain.org> Dave McGuire wrote: > > On December 29, Marvin wrote: > > I was looking at the Heath Listserver messages and here is the URL of a > > disassembled Heathkit "kit" selling on Ebay. Current price (someone has too > > much money on their hands) is $103.50. The URL is: > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewItem&item=532822189 > > I thought you had to be smoking crack or something, Marvin; nobody > would actuall *do* something like this...but I just looked at the > auction. It's true. > > Be afraid. Be very afraid. I thought this was an interesting concept. Many people speak about the "old days" when Heathkit was still supplying kits and how nice it would be to do something like that now. There have been quite a few discussions on the Heath Listserver about what it would take to provide such kits now. This disassembly/rekit concept seems like a good idea although my impression is that it would be a *LOT* of work to disassemble, test the parts, and clean everything up to be ready to put back together as a kit. I might have to try this with some of the older Heathkit stuff for which I also have manuals (speaking seriously). I doubt it would be worth the time and effort for the potential monitary return, but from the standpoint of perhaps getting some people interested in building stuff, it might be very worthwhile. It IS hard to judge though by just this one auction. From west at tseinc.com Sat Dec 30 20:28:19 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Another unknown system available in St. Louis Message-ID: <001d01c072d1$57381b40$468653d1@fozzie> I almost forgot to tell the list about this one.... if anyone wants it, it's theirs. I'll pick it up and facillitate shipping, or you can come to st. louis and go to the store and grab it yourself. At another electronics surplus store in st. louis....this appears to be a cpu only, could be a cpu and disk drive. 19" rackmount, brushed aluminum type front panel. The brand says "Bruker" on it. There's a row of lights for IRQ (6-0), a row of lights for pending IRQ (6-0), lights for diskr, diskw, ION, RUN, POWER. There's two LED displays in the upper right corner, one for the PC and one for the Accumulator. Bottom right is a keyswitch. In the center are pad switches with embedded led's for things like single step, examine, store, etc. Then above that and in the center is a set of thumbwheels... they all were set at zeros, and I don't recall how many of them there was, maybe 12 or so... just on appearances and a walkaround without touching it I wouldn't be suprised if it was a core machine. It's high on a shelf in the storage area, they won't want to get it down unless I'm serious about buying it - it looks heavy. There's no price on it, but from past experience at this place I'm figuring the owner would ask about $35 bucks for it. The general outward construction and appearance looks very similar to the nicolet model 80 that I got there a while back and was (ISTR) shown at the last VCF. I've never heard of a "bruker" computer... I'm not interested in this system for myself, but for intellectual reasons I'm a bit curious if anyone has heard of this system and could tell a little bit about it. If anyone wants it, contact me off list. Jay West From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 30 20:49:50 2000 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display References: <006e01c05b2d$98de3810$2d799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <06a601c072d4$58ed8c10$0100a8c0@jack> Originally used on a VT1200 Display anybody have a svc manual or experience hooking it up to a sync-on-green matrox card? or running it on xfree86? I got it going on linux, but it throws a nasty shadow in dithered mode. Fred k1hb@aol.com From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 30 20:51:51 2000 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: vt1200 xterminal wtb References: <006e01c05b2d$98de3810$2d799a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <06ab01c072d4$a0c3e5c0$0100a8c0@jack> I could use a vt1200 terminal to run my monitor, yesssss! so all i need is the term, the kbd maybe and the mouse maybe plus some form of docs. thanks in advance From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sat Dec 30 21:35:26 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:56 2005 Subject: Another unknown system available in St. Louis In-Reply-To: <001d01c072d1$57381b40$468653d1@fozzie> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001230193453.021362e0@208.226.86.10> This sounds like it may be an automated disk tester. --Chuck At 08:28 PM 12/30/00 -0600, you wrote: >At another electronics surplus store in st. louis....this appears to be a >cpu only, could be a cpu and disk drive. 19" rackmount, brushed aluminum >type front panel. The brand says "Bruker" on it. There's a row of lights for >IRQ (6-0), a row of lights for pending IRQ (6-0), lights for diskr, diskw, >ION, RUN, POWER. There's two LED displays in the upper right corner, one for >the PC and one for the Accumulator. Bottom right is a keyswitch. In the >center are pad switches with embedded led's for things like single step, From claudew at sprint.ca Sat Dec 30 21:44:27 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Looking at Thomson MO5 PAL video output and MO5 connector pinouts Message-ID: <3A4EAB9B.3F29B515@sprint.ca> Hi I have one of these Thomson MO5' now in my collection. I know it's a PAL video output. Very little info on the net about this one. Lotta emulators but not about the real machine hardware. Would like to know where does the PAL video come out of... Anybody have a simple suggestion for looking at PAL video signals? Also would like the pinout for the odd connector coming out of the unit... Claude -- The Canuck Computer Collector http://computer_collector.tripod.com From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 30 21:56:00 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: OT: help... Message-ID: <010e01c072de$a13dec30$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >Over here, virtually all large-ish screen TVs have what's called a SCART >socket. This is a 21 pin connector carrying 2 channels of audio in and >out (4 connections), composite video in and out (the input is also used >for composite sync in in RGB mode), RGB input, blanking, etc, and lots of >grounds. Never seen one here. This set does take composite video in and audio in via jack on front (Sharp). >I've never seen a monitor with a hot chassis. I know the original 110V >version of the TRS80 model 1 monitor was (I have the service manual), and >had an opto-isolated video input, but surely all more recent monitors >have isolating PSUs? Many do, but I was thinking more of TVsets. >About the worst you'll find over here is some varient of the IPSALO >circuit (IPSALO == Integrated Power Supply And Line Output, Line Output >being what we call the horizontal output stage). Comon config here in smaller or lowend sets. >With these, the flyback is on the hot side of the PSU, as is the >horizontal deflection yoke. The horizontal drive signal is opto-isolated, >the horizontal osciallator, vertical deflection, video circuitry, >tuner/IF strip, etc are all isolated from the power line, The EHT to the >CRT is isolated as well, by the flyback transformer. > >Of course these means that one yoke winding is isolated from the power >line, the other isn't. Adds the 'fun' when servicing these. Isolation transformer is the only way to live. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 30 21:52:08 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Heath H-101-20, more info Message-ID: <010d01c072de$a06343a0$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Jay West >It does appear to be an S-100 system. I'm not qualified to say that since I >am not into S100 stuff, but the cards inside it have 50 pins per side, and >it looks like the pics I've seen of S100 stuff. It is. Sounds like a Z100 (Z110 and friends). >The keyboard is missing the F12 key, and there is indeed a composite video >out rca jack. Right beneath it is a DB9F, from a quick look at the cable >internal I'm guessing it is mono out. There's also about 20 punchouts on the It's mono. There was a matching tube but any B&W monitor will work. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 30 21:50:08 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions Message-ID: <010c01c072de$9f1dcb50$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Jeff Hellige > > Don't the VT220 and VR201 share some parts as well? My VR201 >got dropped a while back and that's the reason my DECmate isn't up Not really.. The tube is the same and maybe peice parts but ones a basic monitor and the other a complete CRT system. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Dec 30 21:58:33 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions Message-ID: <010f01c072de$a2125330$bd769a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell >> >Yes, and although the Rainbow has a Z80 in it (which could run 8080 >code), IIRC, the internal VT100 emulator runs on the 8088 processor in >the 'bow. Killer CP/M-80 machine and it also ran CP/M-86 better than most. What was odd is it's one of the rare machines that had DOS with more than 640k! Allison From djg at drs-esg.com Sat Dec 30 22:06:40 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions Message-ID: <200012310406.XAA06385@drs-esg.com> From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) >That wasn't what I meant. Berg label the connector pins starting from the >opposite end of the connector from the rest of the world, so what I meant >was that on actual connectors, the pins are: > ... Thanks, I have updated the document. I had less trouble building it in the first place than figuring out what I built. The adapter has a normal 3M in it and I had though I got the pin 1 backward on it. Apparently when I built it I knew they were opposite but since forgot. From optimus at canit.se Sat Dec 30 22:28:04 2000 From: optimus at canit.se (Iggy Drougge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Looking at Thomson MO5 PAL video output and MO5 connector pinouts In-Reply-To: <3A4EAB9B.3F29B515@sprint.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Dec 2000, Claude wrote: > I have one of these Thomson MO5' now in my collection. Lucky bastard. > I know it's a PAL video output. Are you certain it's not SECAM? I haven't heard of this machine being sold outside of France. > Would like to know where does the PAL video come out of... > > Anybody have a simple suggestion for looking at PAL video signals? PAL TV. > Also would like the pinout for the odd connector coming out of the > unit... Is it a 21-pin SCART/P?ritel connector? In that case, I'd suggest extracting RGB signals from it. Then you won't have to worry about TV standards. Of course, you need an RGB monitor, but any micro collector has several, right? Hmm, looking at http://www.computingmuseum.com/museum/mo5.htm , it seems that there was indeed a model for export to the rest of Europe. I suppose this one does indeed supply a PAL signal. This model, the MO5E, had a mechanical keyboard, too. Ooh, this page is interesting. Here we encounter a so-called QuickDrive, a 2,8" floppy format. Could this be the same as the 3" disks? According to http://home.debitel.net/user/groener1/comp_025.htm , there was also a mechanical keyobard version for the French market, with AZERTY keyboard. From claudew at sprint.ca Sat Dec 30 22:52:09 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Thomson 4120 monitor/Re: Looking at Thomson MO5 PAL video output and MO5 connector pinouts References: <3A4EAB9B.3F29B515@sprint.ca> Message-ID: <3A4EBB79.6182B792@sprint.ca> Hi (I am answering my own questions...) Claude wrote: > > Hi > > I have one of these Thomson MO5' now in my collection. > > I know it's a PAL video output. > > Very little info on the net about this one. Lotta emulators but not > about the real machine hardware. > > Would like to know where does the PAL video come out of... > > Anybody have a simple suggestion for looking at PAL video signals? Actually, I just realised I was the proud onwer of a Thomson 4120 monitor...I looked up the model on the net and I saw that it's supposed to do RGB/NTSC and...PAL!!! It's got a 4 position switch in front...to change modes but no ID of the modes only 1 2 3 4 written above switch positions... Never knew that when I bought it for $7...Just got it because it did composite color...hmmmm....I see no RGB looking connector in the back...only composite , sound and chroma rca jacks...who is familiar with this unit? > > Also would like the pinout for the odd connector coming out of the > unit... Thats a Scart connection Claude (just realised that..) Look that up on the web and you will find the pinouts... Claude > > Claude > > -- > The Canuck Computer Collector > http://computer_collector.tripod.com From claudew at sprint.ca Sat Dec 30 23:17:13 2000 From: claudew at sprint.ca (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Looking at Thomson MO5 PAL video output and MO5 connector pinouts References: Message-ID: <3A4EC159.20688CE4@sprint.ca> Iggy Drougge wrote: > > I have one of these Thomson MO5' now in my collection. > > I know it's a PAL video output. > > Are you certain it's not SECAM? I haven't heard of this machine being > sold outside of France. Well, now I guess it could be SECAM...dont know really... > > > Would like to know where does the PAL video come out of... > > > > Anybody have a simple suggestion for looking at PAL video signals? > > PAL TV. Thnaks...but... I have a Thomson 4120 (just remembered...), I have seen posts on the net that it supports PAL...4 position switch in front of unit...just says 1 2 3 4 on top of switch positions and of course I dont have the manual... > > > Also would like the pinout for the odd connector coming out of the > > unit... > > Is it a 21-pin SCART/P?ritel connector? In that case, I'd suggest > extracting RGB signals from it. Then you won't have to worry about TV > standards. Of course, you need an RGB monitor, but any micro collector has > several, right? > > Hmm, looking at http://www.computingmuseum.com/museum/mo5.htm , it seems > that there was indeed a model for export to the rest of Europe. I suppose > this one does indeed supply a PAL signal. This model, the MO5E, had a > mechanical keyboard, too. Nope, mine is a MO5 not a MO5E...nice chicklet/rubber keys... I heard the MO5's and similar were part of a French Goverment backed "computers in school program" that was a disaster...We had a similar experience in Quebec where the goverment bought a ton of IBM compatibles for schools (cant remember the name now) that were costly and like 50% IBM compatible... Claude > Ooh, this page is interesting. Here we encounter a so-called QuickDrive, a > 2,8" floppy format. Could this be the same as the 3" disks? > > According to http://home.debitel.net/user/groener1/comp_025.htm , there > was also a mechanical keyobard version for the French market, with AZERTY > keyboard. From rjzambo at attglobal.net Sun Dec 31 00:07:09 2000 From: rjzambo at attglobal.net (rjzambo@attglobal.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Another unknown system available in St. Louis References: <001d01c072d1$57381b40$468653d1@fozzie> Message-ID: <3A4ECD0D.82CDCB6F@attglobal.net> Jay Bruker is a maker of NMR equipment used to determine the structure of chemicals. It is used in chemistry laboratories all over. The computer runs the NMR . It is probably one of the original ,CPU made up of AMD I.C.s . It runs only there own software.Pretty but quite useless for anything else. Jay West wrote: > I almost forgot to tell the list about this one.... if anyone wants it, it's > theirs. I'll pick it up and facillitate shipping, or you can come to st. > louis and go to the store and grab it yourself. > > At another electronics surplus store in st. louis....this appears to be a > cpu only, could be a cpu and disk drive. 19" rackmount, brushed aluminum > type front panel. The brand says "Bruker" on it. There's a row of lights for > IRQ (6-0), a row of lights for pending IRQ (6-0), lights for diskr, diskw, > ION, RUN, POWER. There's two LED displays in the upper right corner, one for > the PC and one for the Accumulator. Bottom right is a keyswitch. In the > center are pad switches with embedded led's for things like single step, > examine, store, etc. Then above that and in the center is a set of > thumbwheels... they all were set at zeros, and I don't recall how many of > them there was, maybe 12 or so... just on appearances and a walkaround > without touching it I wouldn't be suprised if it was a core machine. > > It's high on a shelf in the storage area, they won't want to get it down > unless I'm serious about buying it - it looks heavy. There's no price on it, > but from past experience at this place I'm figuring the owner would ask > about $35 bucks for it. The general outward construction and appearance > looks very similar to the nicolet model 80 that I got there a while back and > was (ISTR) shown at the last VCF. > > I've never heard of a "bruker" computer... I'm not interested in this system > for myself, but for intellectual reasons I'm a bit curious if anyone has > heard of this system and could tell a little bit about it. If anyone wants > it, contact me off list. > > Jay West From montym at swbell.net Sun Dec 31 00:20:30 2000 From: montym at swbell.net (Monty McGraw) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Tektronix 4052 and 4054 with 4662 plotter and 4631 hard copy unit Message-ID: <018e01c072f1$c6d35f80$6801a8c0@dsl.hstntx.swbell.net> Well, my waiting paid off. I picked up a Tektronix 4052 along with a Tek 4631 hard copy unit and custom metal cabinet late last year from a guy selling surplus medical school equipment. The 4052 had three missing keycaps and that was very difficult to remedy, but found an ex-Tek employee who had the keycaps I needed! Also a bunch of program tapes and several ROM cartridges. I now have the Character Set ROM and Signal Processing #2. The 4631 had paper too old to use but I found some on the internet for $10! Also, after about a dozen printouts, the main drive belt fell apart. Even with the service manual, finding a replacement was very difficult. Fortunately the service manual listed the number of teeth and length of the belt, so I was able to get one from Stock Drive Products. I also located the service manuals and found a 4662 multipen plotter on EBAY. I revived many of my old 4051 programs from the '70s, except for the ones that use the CALL "EXEC" command :( including my music playing program in 6800 assembly language. I even modified a Kraft PC joystick to plug into the 4052 joystick connector - works great, played one of the startrek games for the 4051 that supported the joystick. I also found and won a 4054 on EBAY early this year! This machine had been auctioned from Caltech. This machine was listed as not working. After some cleaning, I decided to try unplugging and reseating all the chips in sockets. I found one of the 16K bit DRAMs was bad, bought a 64Kbyte set to upgrade the memory to the 128KByte maximum and got the machine running again! Then I tracked down a malfunctioning opamp in the tape drive board and loaded some of my revived programs. Wow - the 19" direct view screen is incredible compared to the 12" flat CRT screen in the 4051/52. Although it is not flat, it has much more detail - I can see why it was preferred for CAD. Amazing how Tektronix had the higher resolution completely compatible with the old software. The 4631 hard copy made an incredible printout. Spurred on by the article at computergarage.org on using 4051s in Battlestar Galactica, I decided to try to write a short program to display a squadron of Battlestar Galactica Vipers on patrol. Using the image in the computergarage article, I printed the image on my inkjet, wrote a short digitizer program for the plotter and used the 4052 to digitize the outline of the viper in the picture. This is saved in a single array, then using Tek graphics WINDOW and VIEWPORT commands I draw the array with a single DRAW command, move the origin, resize the window and draw again. The same display on the 4054 is noticeably sharper than the 4052. By changing the DRAW command to a PLOT command, I'm able to plot the program to the 4662 - that's what I loved about the Tek PLOT 50 language. I'm still looking for someone with information on the CALL "EXEC" command and the 'newer' 4052/54 bitslice machines. Philip Belben was correct about the increased speed - some of my 4051 benchmarks run 10X faster on the 4052 and 4054. The "A" rev 4052A and 4054A added a TI GPIB chip to increase the GPIB speed further, and added a couple of other commands. The 4054 added a "refresh cursor" that could be controlled with the built-in thumbwheels in the keyboard. There was an Option for REFRESHED GRAPHICS that expanded on that concept and added an 8X300 coprocessor board with refresh graphics memory to have a whole graphics image be drawn without "storing" the image on the screen. Apparently my machine left the factory with that option - but the board is no longer there. Love to hear from someone that had that option board. Monty McGraw -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001231/e9c6ea0b/attachment.html From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sun Dec 31 01:49:49 2000 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Hays Chronograph, baudrate, bits, etc. . . Message-ID: <20001231.014950.-981897.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Anybody know the baudrate for the Hayes Chrono? WOrdsize and parity would be nice to know, too. ALso, is it DCE or DTE? I would look at my electronic copy of the manual, but it looks like it went to the bit-bucket . . . Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Dec 31 04:25:33 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Memtest86, then HD won't boot. In-Reply-To: <20001230204840.ZETV14993.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> References: <20001230022141.YMHZ16490.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> Message-ID: >> Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2000 02:37:33 -0800 >> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> From: Mike Ford >> Subject: Re: Memtest86, then HD won't boot. >> Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > >> Looks like simple drive go splort. Maxtor diagnostic shows, reset pass, > >Hmm.. Maxtor in your system? Pull that thing out again and >suggest get IBM or Quantum instead. At two pc shops I work The Maxtor that died was made by IBM. ;) The one I replaced it with just says Maxtor, but looks EXACTLY the same, just newer and bigger. I would like to get one of the new IBM or Quantum drives, but I really don't have a big preference as long as the warranty is good and not much gets reported as bad on the specfic model. From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 31 05:36:03 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: VT78 - pinouts In-Reply-To: David Gesswein "Re: VT78 - lots of questions" (Dec 30, 23:06) References: <200012310406.XAA06385@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <10012311136.ZM24040@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 30, 23:06, David Gesswein wrote: > From: pete@dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) > >That wasn't what I meant. Berg label the connector pins starting from the > >opposite end of the connector from the rest of the world, so what I meant > >was that on actual connectors, the pins are: > > > ... > > Thanks, I have updated the document. I had less trouble building it in the > first place than figuring out what I built. LOL! I often find that :-) > The adapter has a normal > 3M in it and I had though I got the pin 1 backward on it. Apparently > when I built it I knew they were opposite but since forgot. The first couple of times I came across Berg connectors (rather than, say, 3M, which I was used to on micros) I was *thoroughly* confused by what I saw as the "wrong" way of doing it. A healthy dose of DEC machines with 3rd party parts fixed that. Now I use them less, I have to think about it again, though. I wonder how this confusion came about? Everyone else uses "stripe on the right" (but not, IIRC, for D-connectors and some others) but I think Berg predates 3M et al headers? If so, how come 3M and the rest chose to be different? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York From rcini at optonline.net Sun Dec 31 08:47:44 2000 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Amsat-Golem article - redux Message-ID: Hello, all: Happy New Year to everyone. I'm trying to do some rearranging on my file archive, and I can't seem to locate the scan of part 2 to an article in BYTE magazine about the Amsat-Golem S100 computer. Whoever scanned this for me and e-mailed it to me, if you could re-send it. I'd appreciate it very much. Thanks again. Rich ClubWin! Group 1 Collector of Classic Computers Web site: http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ /*****************************************/ From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Dec 31 09:40:17 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Hays Chronograph, baudrate, bits, etc. . . In-Reply-To: <20001231.014950.-981897.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <20001231154142.XKOC21435.femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Man, back in the old dayz I REALLY wanted one of those. Nothing else was available for an RTC for my machine at the time. The Hayes/Stack Chronograph was a Rolls Royce of clocks and cost like one too. I bet it is 300baud. Regards, Jeff In <20001231.014950.-981897.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com>, on 12/31/00 at 10:40 AM, jeff.kaneko@juno.com said: >Anybody know the baudrate for the Hayes Chrono? >WOrdsize and parity would be nice to know, too. >ALso, is it DCE or DTE? >I would look at my electronic copy of the manual, but >it looks like it went to the bit-bucket . . . >Jeff >________________________________________________________________ GET >INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! >Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! >Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: >http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Dec 31 09:42:34 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display In-Reply-To: <06a601c072d4$58ed8c10$0100a8c0@jack> Message-ID: <20001231154334.XLDU21435.femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Never seen that particular flat panel. Have you tried opening a terminal window and runnign Xvidtune? Regards, Jeff P.S. If you know how to SAVE the changes made in Xvidtune, clue me in will ya? In <06a601c072d4$58ed8c10$0100a8c0@jack>, on 12/31/00 at 10:42 AM, "Fred deBros" said: >Originally used on a VT1200 Display >anybody have a svc manual or experience hooking it up to a sync-on-green >matrox card? >or running it on xfree86? >I got it going on linux, but it throws a nasty shadow in dithered mode. >Fred >k1hb@aol.com -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Dec 31 10:02:29 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: PPort ethernet, new on ebay for $9.00 In-Reply-To: <002c01c072be$457ac3c0$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <20001231160602.XSVU21435.femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I just bought two printerport Xircom ethernet adapters for 9bucks apiece on Ebay. Only three of the 25 available sold so there are still units available. I got two because they were so cheap. I wanted one for my Atari ST. There is a mod out there to run one on the ST by breaking some signals out and routing them to the cartridge port but I can't find it. Right now I'm running MiNT on this machine with 4mb ram (can't have any more). It is networked but via a PPP serial link at 19200bps.... The ppp server is Tserve for OS/2. Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Dec 31 10:06:35 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: FREE! PPP Server for OS/2 In-Reply-To: <00c801c072c0$b5c3f6e0$bd769a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20001231161317.XVLG21435.femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I know the product isn't ten years old, but it helps me USE my vintage machines so.... I'd been looking for one for years and the only one available was from IBM Software Choice which means MONEY. The other day, on a totally unrelated search I ran across a shareware (now free) slip/ppp server from Micro-Niel that works very well and supports as many serial ports as you've got and as many users as you've got cpu time to support. Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Dec 31 10:16:11 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: BSD, TCP/IP, routing help needed In-Reply-To: <200012310406.XAA06385@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: <20001231171653.GFMN29808.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> >From the other messgages you can guess this has to do with PPP and my Atari ST. The Atari is running MiNT which is a BSD variant. The machine has no MMU so no virtual memory and has no mathco, just the ol' 68000. I've got it dialing in via PPPD to my PC running Warp and a PPP server. No problems, can ping outside the intranet, name services, local servers like ftpd etcetera all work: on the pc: Eth0 - 24.15.74.214 - connected to cable modem Eth1 - 192.168.0.33 - Default router for intranet (NAT IP spoofing). Modem - PPP Server On the Atari st: PPP connection to PC (fixed ip of 192.168.0.31) gets me internet access just as expected BUT I can't ping or otherwise access machines on my network other than the router (eth1) and (eth0). Why? It is acting as though I am on a different network on the far side of the router. The St's default router when connected is 192.168.0.33. 24.15.74.214 works too and the problem is unchanged. Arghh. Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Dec 31 11:24:17 2000 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Hays Chronograph, baudrate, bits, etc. . . In-Reply-To: <20001231.014950.-981897.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20001231092246.02f060a0@agora.rdrop.com> At 01:49 AM 12/31/00 -0600, you wrote: >Anybody know the baudrate for the Hayes Chrono? >WOrdsize and parity would be nice to know, too. >ALso, is it DCE or DTE? > >I would look at my electronic copy of the manual, but >it looks like it went to the bit-bucket . . . IIRC: The Hayes Chronograph responsed to the 'AT' command set just like the 'Smartmodems', and would derive the data rate settings from that... -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 The 'computergarage.org' domain is currently offline. Current web site and email shown above From geneb at deltasoft.com Sun Dec 31 12:37:04 2000 From: geneb at deltasoft.com (Gene Buckle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Hays Chronograph, baudrate, bits, etc. . . References: <20001231.014950.-981897.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: <000901c07358$ac0d4140$1ec7fec7@pcat> Jeff, I think it works as DCE (since it gets plugged into the host computer and the modem plugs into it). It's probably 300, 8, N, 1. Keep in mind that it won't respond unless you're sending AT commands that are specific to the Chronograph. g. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2000 11:49 PM Subject: Hays Chronograph, baudrate, bits, etc. . . > > Anybody know the baudrate for the Hayes Chrono? > WOrdsize and parity would be nice to know, too. > ALso, is it DCE or DTE? > > I would look at my electronic copy of the manual, but > it looks like it went to the bit-bucket . . . > > > Jeff > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 31 11:30:22 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Another unknown system available in St. Louis In-Reply-To: <001d01c072d1$57381b40$468653d1@fozzie> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Dec 2000, Jay West wrote: > At another electronics surplus store in st. louis....this appears to be a > cpu only, could be a cpu and disk drive. 19" rackmount, brushed aluminum > type front panel. The brand says "Bruker" on it. There's a row of lights for > IRQ (6-0), a row of lights for pending IRQ (6-0), lights for diskr, diskw, > ION, RUN, POWER. There's two LED displays in the upper right corner, one for > the PC and one for the Accumulator. Bottom right is a keyswitch. In the > center are pad switches with embedded led's for things like single step, > examine, store, etc. Then above that and in the center is a set of > thumbwheels... they all were set at zeros, and I don't recall how many of > them there was, maybe 12 or so... just on appearances and a walkaround > without touching it I wouldn't be suprised if it was a core machine. This is, as you guessed, seems to be the same thing as the Nicolet computer you previously bought. As far as I know, Bruker was the actual company that built the machine, and Nicolet bought them out or something. Someone should grab this machine as it represents only the third known to still exist besides mine and Hal's (but I'm sure there are more). this Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From foo at siconic.com Sun Dec 31 11:34:03 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Another unknown system available in St. Louis In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001230193453.021362e0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Dec 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > This sounds like it may be an automated disk tester. > --Chuck > > At 08:28 PM 12/30/00 -0600, you wrote: > >At another electronics surplus store in st. louis....this appears to be a > >cpu only, could be a cpu and disk drive. 19" rackmount, brushed aluminum > >type front panel. The brand says "Bruker" on it. There's a row of lights for > >IRQ (6-0), a row of lights for pending IRQ (6-0), lights for diskr, diskw, > >ION, RUN, POWER. There's two LED displays in the upper right corner, one for > >the PC and one for the Accumulator. Bottom right is a keyswitch. In the > >center are pad switches with embedded led's for things like single step, Hmmm, after looking at the pictures of mine (from my still unfinished Nicolet page at http://www.vintage.org/nicolet/nicolet.htm) I am now wondering if this really is the CPU or something else, as Chuck suggests. Can you get a photo of this? I might be interested in it if it is something different than what I have. Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sun Dec 31 12:57:41 2000 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display References: <20001231154334.XLDU21435.femail9.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <000601c0735b$8eb63d60$0100a8c0@jack> its a beauty, 60hz refresh, it dithers nicely, is 21in or more! got several. i want to run them in semidark areas. i know they work well on the vt1200 terminal. i can send u the xconfig file. but they have a slight flicker/moiree and mostly the shadow strong white casts makes them virtually unusable in linux/sync on green. i really dont know what else i can do ....got them almost running....too bad Fred Xvidtune doesnt help. maybe i should try to run them in 1-bit mode only? do u know of anybody who got the old toshiba 2400(?) gas plasma displays they had on these black portables going in linux? thats probably pretty close to the vre01 screen! Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 10:42 AM Subject: Re: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display > Never seen that particular flat panel. Have you tried opening a terminal > window and runnign Xvidtune? > > Regards, > > Jeff > > P.S. If you know how to SAVE the changes made in Xvidtune, clue me in will > ya? > > > In <06a601c072d4$58ed8c10$0100a8c0@jack>, on 12/31/00 > at 10:42 AM, "Fred deBros" said: > > >Originally used on a VT1200 Display > > >anybody have a svc manual or experience hooking it up to a sync-on-green > >matrox card? > >or running it on xfree86? > > >I got it going on linux, but it throws a nasty shadow in dithered mode. > > >Fred > > >k1hb@aol.com > > > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Dec 31 13:24:03 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: DEC-423 to RS-232 chip? Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001231110558.0291c440@208.226.86.10> Hello Everyone, I had one of those DEC MMJ->DB-25 things come apart on me and expected to see the MMJ connector wired to the DB-25 in the now familiar mode we see in the FAQ, however instead there is an ST 20 pin chip betwixt the MMJ and the DB25! This might explain why they work better than the wired together solution :-) The chip is labeled HTAM1B4 (looks like a house number) then under that is P 9236 (date code I suspect) and then under that "Philippines". Can anyone guess the "real" part number for this chip? no power or passives at all so I presume it runs on phantom power. looking at the PCB I'd guess its wired up as follows: pin 1 - GND 20 - GND 2 - MMJ-5 19 - DB-2 3 - MMJ-2 18 - DB-3 4 - MMJ-6 17 - DB-20 5 - MMJ-1 16 - DB-7 6 - GND 15 - GND 7 - GND 14 - GND 8 - MMJ-4 13 - DB-8 9 - MMJ-3 12 - DB-8 10 - GND 11 - GND The DB25 is a female (DTE?) and while I'm sure of the DB pin numbers the MMJ numbers may be reversed, since I'm never sure if pin 1 on the MMJ is the left pin looking into the connector body or the right pin. (I assume the left pin above) --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 31 12:26:21 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: It had to happen sometime In-Reply-To: <3A4E94C8.BD03F2C7@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Dec 30, 0 06:07:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2573 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001231/007faf06/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 31 12:29:14 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: OT: help... In-Reply-To: <010e01c072de$a13dec30$bd769a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Dec 30, 0 10:56:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 427 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001231/83b2473f/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 31 12:33:43 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: <010f01c072de$a2125330$bd769a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Dec 30, 0 10:58:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1436 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001231/85a506d0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 31 12:38:41 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Looking at Thomson MO5 PAL video output and MO5 connector pinouts In-Reply-To: from "Iggy Drougge" at Dec 31, 0 05:28:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 987 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001231/90a3fddf/attachment.ksh From jhellige at earthlink.net Sun Dec 31 13:34:01 2000 From: jhellige at earthlink.net (Jeff Hellige) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: VT78 - lots of questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >With such machines, having more than 640K RAM is not that uncommon. I >have an Apricot with 960K RAM (the remaining 64K in the 1Mbyte address >space of the 8088 is the video RAM and BIOS EPROMs). And yes, MS-DOS on >that machine uses all the available RAM. TRS-80 Model 2000's can easily be expanded up to 768k, though I no longer remember exactly how it's version of MS-DOS 2.XX used the additional memory other than as a RAM disk. On a standard Tandy machine with Tandy parts, you could have 256k on the mainboard and two 256k expansion cards in the card chasis. I believe Envision Designs had a modification that allowed 896k total (256k on the mainboard and one modified RAM expansion card with 640k on it). The graphics card didn't share any of the system RAM. Jeff -- Collector of Classic Microcomputers and Video Game Systems: Home of the TRS-80 Model 2000 FAQ File http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lakes/6757 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 31 13:53:14 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: DEC-423 to RS-232 chip? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001231110558.0291c440@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Dec 31, 0 11:24:03 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1801 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001231/03bbc224/attachment.ksh From ncherry at home.net Sun Dec 31 14:10:55 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: BSD, TCP/IP, routing help needed References: <20001231171653.GFMN29808.femail5.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <3A4F92CF.57D1388A@home.net> THETechnoid@home.com wrote: > > >From the other messgages you can guess this has to do with PPP and my > Atari ST. > > The Atari is running MiNT which is a BSD variant. The machine has no MMU > so no virtual memory and has no mathco, just the ol' 68000. > > I've got it dialing in via PPPD to my PC running Warp and a PPP server. > No problems, can ping outside the intranet, name services, local servers > like ftpd etcetera all work: > > on the pc: > > Eth0 - 24.15.74.214 - connected to cable modem > > Eth1 - 192.168.0.33 - Default router for intranet (NAT IP spoofing). > > Modem - PPP Server > > On the Atari st: > > PPP connection to PC (fixed ip of 192.168.0.31) gets me internet access > just as expected BUT I can't ping or otherwise access machines on my > network other than the router (eth1) and (eth0). Why? It is acting as > though I am on a different network on the far side of the router. The St's > default router when connected is 192.168.0.33. 24.15.74.214 works too and > the problem is unchanged. OK, routing is working I would bet that you can ping the ip address of @Home's router. If that is the case then I expect that you don't have the resolver portion of the IP setup working. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Dec 31 14:57:07 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: OT (sortof) wanted items (cart & logic analyzer stuff) In-Reply-To: Re: OT (sortof) wanted items (cart & logic analyzer stuff) (Richard Erlacher) References: <001f01c071f1$7b644600$468653d1@fozzie> <14926.22737.329634.385867@phaduka.neurotica.com> <003201c072c2$c7e57720$1192fea9@idcomm.com> Message-ID: <14927.40355.488895.518941@phaduka.neurotica.com> On December 30, Richard Erlacher wrote: > What kind of equipment to you intend to work on with this new LA? I've used Just general hacking. I'm doing more and more digital stuff (mostly PIC-based) and up 'til now a logic probe, a pulse generator, a DMM, and a fast 'scope have been all I've needed for troubleshooting. I've just been thinking a decent multichannel analyzer might be a nice addition to the bench. > the HP 1630 though it's been about 15 years. It has some nice features. > With today's fairly flexible (I/O) devices, however, you might find it > interesting to build one that uses your PC as a display and acquires the > sample memory contents from the device via the EPP. If you're really > ambitious, perhaps USB would be appealing. It's certainly popular enough. Eh...that would mean getting a PeeCee. Thanks for the suggestion though...it's definitely a cool idea. > If you're determined to buy a logic analyzer, the crux of the task is to > find a unit that's not only fully functional but also fully complete. You > need the documentation ... all of it, and you need the complete set of pods > and whatever mechanism, usually an interface board, that is required to > support it. You'll ultimately be disappointed if it's possible to have more > channels than what you've got, so it's important you have enough channel > boards, pods, and probe clips to support them all. There are usually pod > testers that come with a new logic analyzer, and those often are the first > thing that gets lost. Those are extremely necessary when you're having > trouble gettin a setup to work, because they're the only way you have of > restoring your confidence in the instrument. If there's some sort of method > for storing and processing the sample data, either internally or externally, > you certainly will want that capability. A spare pod is pretty useful, too, > unless you think you will find one, which I, having searched the market > pretty thoroughly at various times, doubt very much. I did find on, > however. Understood. I have pretty good sources for test equipment and docs, so I'll be able to shop around a bit, and try-before-I-buy. > I've had several logic analyzers, and, in '92-93, due to the need for > portability, decided to replace my bench-bound model for a portable, a TEK > 1240, which is the monochrome (cheaper) version of their portable of the > mid-late '80's. I found any number of incomplete LA's. Mostly, the pods > and the sample boards were partly or completely missing. Documentation was > not common, and, though I found some pods for sale, they were not complete, > and none I was offered had documentation. Unfortunately, it's too easy to > develop excessive or erroneous expectations of what the instrument will do > if you don't have doc's so you'd better have them. I found several > 1240/41's for <$250, but those were without pods, several were without the > required sample boards, and none had documentation. I found pods, often > costing more than $250 for a pair, again without documentation and, worse, > without the lead sets and probe clips that you need to attach to a device I've looked at the Tek 1240/1241...both seemed pretty nice. From my sources, though, they get awfully expensive (>$800) if they're complete with lots of options, pods, clips, and docs. > Before you buy, be ceratin that YOUR preferred triggering methods are > supported. I've found triggering the most critical problem of logic > analyzer application, and if there's even a single conceivable mode that > isn't supported, THAT's the one you'll need, ... trust me. Sounds good to me. Thanks for the advice! -Dave McGuire From THETechnoid at home.com Sun Dec 31 15:26:59 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display In-Reply-To: <000601c0735b$8eb63d60$0100a8c0@jack> Message-ID: <20001231213527.JNVP17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> I used to have a Toshiba T3200 with a plasma display. It did 8bit orange-scale fine. Used to play Testdrive! on it. Recently plasma displays went COLOR. Now thats cool. Power requirements are way off LCD though which is important for portable applications. I have a new ELO color touchscreen that Linux, Netbsd, and openbsd don't like. Again, OS/2 Warp likes it and runs it fine. I'm using it as a car MP3 player but it is much more capable than that. Regards, Jeff -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sun Dec 31 15:49:05 2000 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Toshiba t4600 P30/31 errors References: Message-ID: <001001c07373$80275af0$0100a8c0@jack> Been struggling with that for quite awhile now, nothing seems to cure it. I changed a 1000uF cap on the pwr supply subboard as someone suggested....on the computer....boy what a deconstruct! Looked like a fox had visited a bicycle garage.....looking for a chicken. Didnt help! suggestions? Fred From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Dec 31 15:56:06 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: DEC-423 to RS-232 chip? In-Reply-To: References: <5.0.0.25.2.20001231110558.0291c440@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <5.0.0.25.2.20001231134523.02a191a0@208.226.86.10> At 07:53 PM 12/31/00 +0000, Tony wrote: >Are you sure you've not miscounted? I would think pin 16 goes to DB 6 and >pins 12 and 13 to DB7. You're right, I rechecked it from the "top" and the pins involved are 6, 7 and not 7,8. >I think this chip is nothing more than an RFI filter. There's a filter >network with the input/output going to pins across the chip (like 2 and >19) and the common connection going to ground via the 4 corner pins of the >chip. Many of the chips are R-C-R t-networks, but I think some of the >better ones are C-L-C pi networks. No idea what yours is. Interesting, I'm now wondering if there is someway to do this without a chip (a few discretes perhaps). >I've seen these 'chips' used in all sorts of devices -- the Apple Mac + >certainly has them in series with connections to the external connectors. No luck finding the equivalent of a "databook" on line though. Several services to make them for you if you know the required specs :-) >This would explain the lack of power to the chip, and the connections given. I certainly concur here. >The adapter should work without the 'chip' if you short pins across the >empty space (i.e 2-19, 3-18, etc). It might not meet the FCC, etc, >requirements on electromagnetic radiation, though. Hmm, perhaps we'll try this out in a bit, my motivating issue is this: With this fancy I've-only-got-one DEC do-hicky with MMJ on one side and DB-25F on the other. I get 100% reliable serial communications with my VAX 4000/60. With my third party you-can-build-this-yourself MMJ to DE-9F wired through connection. I get into situations where the VAX will suddenly stop seeing anything I type at it. (it still seems to receive and the RxD path is sound electrically. So my thought was to see what it would take to duplicate the DEC gizmo. The other thing bouncing through my head here is the DEC-423 multiplexor I'm going to build for the VAXStax cluster project. --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 31 16:12:17 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: DEC-423 to RS-232 chip? In-Reply-To: <5.0.0.25.2.20001231134523.02a191a0@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Dec 31, 0 01:56:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2934 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20001231/9b27264f/attachment.ksh From fdebros at bellatlantic.net Sun Dec 31 17:13:53 2000 From: fdebros at bellatlantic.net (Fred deBros) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display References: <20001231213527.JNVP17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: <000d01c0737f$58541480$0100a8c0@jack> That is what the VRE01 is: Orange...actually more yellow like, single colour 22 in or more across flatpanel display....geeky!. If someone has the xconfig file for the toshiba 3200 display with linux, that may help me fine tune that VRE01... The VRE01 displays are still available in Canada and US. Fred ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 4:26 PM Subject: Re: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display > I used to have a Toshiba T3200 with a plasma display. It did 8bit > orange-scale fine. Used to play Testdrive! on it. Recently plasma > displays went COLOR. Now thats cool. Power requirements are way off LCD > though which is important for portable applications. > > I have a new ELO color touchscreen that Linux, Netbsd, and openbsd don't > like. Again, OS/2 Warp likes it and runs it fine. I'm using it as a car > MP3 player but it is much more capable than that. > > > Regards, > > Jeff > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------- > Jeffrey S. Worley > President > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > 30 Greenwood Rd. > Asheville, NC 28803 > 828-277-5959 > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > THETechnoid@home.com > ----------------------------------------------------------- > From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Sun Dec 31 18:02:42 2000 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (jeff.kaneko@juno.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Hayes Chronograph, baudrate, bits, etc. . . Message-ID: <20001231.180243.-981897.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Thanks to everyone who responded, I got this thing to talk. It's 300 baud, n, 8, 1, dce (use a standard modem cable to talk to it with a PC, for example. Jeff ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. From vcf at siconic.com Sun Dec 31 16:52:14 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Need Mac hard drive manual Message-ID: Does anyone have a hard drive manual for a Mac compatible hard drive? Please contact me privately if you do. Thanks! Sellam Ismail Vintage Computer Festival ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ International Man of Intrigue and Danger http://www.vintage.org From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 18:52:34 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Speaking of logic analyzers and 'scopes... Message-ID: Hi all, I have an ancient HP 140A 'scope, vintage 1964, HP's third or fourth scope I believe, and I could use some parts for it if anyone has any, specifically the little feet for the bottom of the case, also any 1400 series plug ins, I have about 5 different ones already but more would be fine ;p BTW; this scope goes all the way up to a blistering 20 megacycles... However, it is one of the coolest looking pieces of gear I've ever seen (heavy though). Could also use some probes for the 1402A dual trace amplifier.. if you have any of this stuff you probably know what I'm talking about.. I also have an HP 1615A logic analyzer, I'd be interested in a manual for this, have all the plugins already... Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 31 20:04:36 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display In-Reply-To: <000d01c0737f$58541480$0100a8c0@jack> References: <20001231213527.JNVP17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> Message-ID: >The VRE01 displays are still available in Canada and US. Where and how much? These sound seriously cool! I've always thought Gas Plasma displays were very cool. Zane -- | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Administrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | OpenVMS Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From oliv555 at arrl.net Sun Dec 31 21:25:29 2000 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (no) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display References: <20001231213527.JNVP17073.femail8.sdc1.sfba.home.com@ci223229-a> <000d01c0737f$58541480$0100a8c0@jack> Message-ID: <3A4FF8A9.693E700D@arrl.net> Fred deBros wrote: > > That is what the VRE01 is: Orange...actually more yellow like, single colour > 22 in or more across flatpanel display....geeky!. > If someone has the xconfig file for the toshiba 3200 display with linux, > that may help me fine tune that VRE01... > The VRE01 displays are still available in Canada and US. > > Fred > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2000 4:26 PM > Subject: Re: VRE01 Gas Plasma Display > > > I used to have a Toshiba T3200 with a plasma display. It did 8bit > > orange-scale fine. Used to play Testdrive! on it. Recently plasma > > displays went COLOR. Now thats cool. Power requirements are way off LCD > > though which is important for portable applications. > > > > I have a new ELO color touchscreen that Linux, Netbsd, and openbsd don't > > like. Again, OS/2 Warp likes it and runs it fine. I'm using it as a car > > MP3 player but it is much more capable than that. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > Jeff > > > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Jeffrey S. Worley > > President > > Complete Computer Services, Inc. > > 30 Greenwood Rd. > > Asheville, NC 28803 > > 828-277-5959 > > Visit our website at HTTP://www.Real-Techs.com > > THETechnoid@home.com > > ----------------------------------------------------------- > > Last week I was browsing one of my early 90s DEC catalogs and, noticing the VRE01, it struck me that in all my years of rummaging thru surplus and used equip. shops that I had never run across one of these. Could you provide any pricing info, locations ? nick o From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 31 22:23:54 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: A different variety of cool unit with a gas plasma display Message-ID: Hi all, This thread reminded me that I have 3 IBM 3290's, which are, as far as I am aware, the first commercial products using gas plasma displays.. I even have the IBM marketing brochures on them, talking in depth about the technology used to make the panels, etc. They are 3270-compatible critters, so I hope to one day have them connected to my 4381... But I don't have any keyboards for them! Can anyone help? Will J _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Dec 31 23:38:06 2000 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Hays Chronograph, baudrate, bits, etc. . . In-Reply-To: <20001231.014950.-981897.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeff, >From Chapt 3: All commands must begin with the characters AT which is an attention code. The baud rate, parity sense, and word size are determined from the AT. clint PS I have the manual, but it is at the bottom of the 'to scan' pile... On Sun, 31 Dec 2000 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > Anybody know the baudrate for the Hayes Chrono? > WOrdsize and parity would be nice to know, too. > ALso, is it DCE or DTE? > > I would look at my electronic copy of the manual, but > it looks like it went to the bit-bucket . . . > > > Jeff > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > From vaxman at qwest.net Sun Dec 31 23:41:17 2000 From: vaxman at qwest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:59:57 2005 Subject: Hays Chronograph, baudrate, bits, etc. . . In-Reply-To: <20001231.014950.-981897.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> Message-ID: Doh! forgot to mention it does 300 and 1200 baud only... clint On Sun, 31 Dec 2000 jeff.kaneko@juno.com wrote: > > Anybody know the baudrate for the Hayes Chrono? > WOrdsize and parity would be nice to know, too. > ALso, is it DCE or DTE? > > I would look at my electronic copy of the manual, but > it looks like it went to the bit-bucket . . . > > > Jeff > ________________________________________________________________ > GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! > Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! > Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > From whdawson at mlynk.com Wed Dec 13 13:30:01 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:56 2005 Subject: HP 2392A Terminals free for pickup or cost of shipping Message-ID: <000001c0653b$16532f00$f79e72d1@cobweb.net> HP 2392A Terminals free for pickup or cost of shipping, pickup preferred. 7 are located in Philadelphia, PA and 7 are in Tampa, FL. All are still operational and include the original boxes. Please contact Lisa Flores at Abtech Systems by phone or email to make arrangements: (800)474-7397 (Carlsbad, CA) or lisax.flores@xabtechsys.com (remove the x's) Arrangements should be made ASAP. There may be much more HP equipment available in the future for free if this goes well. Abtech has HP and Sun equipment, along with other things such as Netservers, PC's and peripherals, etc. that are not worth shipping back to Carlsbad and may become available to listmembers in the future. Bill From whdawson at mlynk.com Wed Dec 13 11:36:08 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 19:00:58 2005 Subject: CRT Problems was:(no subject) In-Reply-To: <3A371F55.E4E0625D@ipom.com> Message-ID: <000701c0652b$2d91c1a0$889e72d1@cobweb.net> -> Also, Several people have used intermittent in this context and I'm not -> quite sure I understand... it is intermittent in the fact that it -> intermittently starts and stops glowing... Yes. -> I have my TV closed again, but when I open it up again I want to have a list -> of all the things I need to look for and what to do about them. So far, I know -> I need to look for bad connections, broken 'pins', to make double sure the -> little mark is silvery instead of gray. However, all the wires and soldering -> seemed to be in tact, of the connections I could see everything was fine. The thing to look for as far as bad connections go is a cold solder joint. These are a result of thermal fatigue/cycling and physical stresses. You should look _very_ closely in the places Tony mentioned, especially where the CRT socket is soldered to the little board at the rear of the CRT and where the flyback is soldered to the mainboard. A cold solder joint will usually look normal without a close inspection (unless you have a lot of experience at these things), but a closer look will reveal a slight ring around the socket pin, flyback pin or wire, within the circumference of the solder pad. Sometimes the contact will be bad right at the solder/pin interface. That is unless the solder has totally popped away from the circuit pad, which is another type of cold solder joint related to initial improper soldering. I'd recommend resoldering every connection for the CRT socket and flyback transformer and seeing if this fixes the problem. If you are inexperienced at soldering/resoldering, I'm sure we can start a new thread. d8^) Bill