From arrigo at vision.caltech.edu Tue Aug 1 03:07:50 2000 From: arrigo at vision.caltech.edu (Arrigo Benedetti) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:37 2005 Subject: Looking for E&L Instr. MMD-1 Message-ID: <200008010807.BAA05626@modena.vision.caltech.edu> Dear all, I'm looking for an E&L Instr. MMD-1 with the original manual in the 3-ring binder with blue plastic cover. I would also be happy to find manual alone or a copy of the schematics and monitor sorce code listing. Of course I'm also interested in the MMD-2. Thanks in advance, -Arrigo From agraham at ccat.co.uk Tue Aug 1 06:17:18 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Back to the A1097C monitor again Message-ID: <00Aug1.121719bst.46095@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Dick wrote: > Take a close look, think about it, and see if you'd rather do > that than just > letting it sit with the hardware it's supposed to go with. ATM I just haven't got the time to dedicate to that sort of project. Even when my gf and little one go to the US this week (she's a US citizen) I've got 110 other projects to do including a new bathroom! At least I'm in the museum room proper though, unfortunately I've discovered I've got enough stuff to fill it 3 times over! This means I've got to rent storage space....... From agraham at ccat.co.uk Tue Aug 1 06:35:37 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Remote Services Consoles REVEALED! Message-ID: <00Aug1.123538bst.46091@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Chuck wrote: > I found DEC document EK-KCRSC-FS-001 "Remote Services Console: Field > Service Manual." Sometimes I'm sure God is a computer collector. So if I pray I might find that boxed Jupiter Ace then? :) > The dial in line uses the DDCMP protocol to insure data > integrity. I'm not > sure what this means in terms of being able to dial it from a PC. You won't be able to unless you've got DECnet running on your PC AND have some form of DDCMP protocol stack.......it's asynchronous DECnet. a From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 1 08:48:00 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Back to the A1097C monitor again References: <00Aug1.121719bst.46095@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <000d01bffbbf$1bd914c0$0500c0a8@winbook> Getting "double-duty" out of something like a monitor is very gratifying in situations where space is limited, but even in those cases where I've gotten fixed-frequency beasties to work beautifully, it's been a disappointment. I got a friend a Photon board with BIOS modifications to suit the Sony GDM 1950, which I'd carefully adjusted and converged so its characters were crisp and sharp, yet there were interactions that didn't work out right. For example, and I don't know why this was, the monitor worked very well in DOS text mode (vga mode 3) and looked like a million bucks in 1280x1024x256-color mode in WIndows, yet when I wanted to use a floppy-port-interfaced tape drive, the thing fell apart. It just didn't work quite right. It takes years to get all the things working together, and the folks who build these cards have to get them all. It's not worth their while to custom up a BIOS for each and every required sync pattern out there. Unless you need a given monitor because you have the accompanying hardware with which it was designed to work, it's not worth your while to make it work on a PC. The easiest way to get some auxilliary use out of it is as a second, Windows-or-game-dedicated monitor, so it only has to display the resolution at which it works most easily. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Adrian Graham To: Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 5:17 AM Subject: RE: Back to the A1097C monitor again > Dick wrote: > > > Take a close look, think about it, and see if you'd rather do > > that than just > > letting it sit with the hardware it's supposed to go with. > > ATM I just haven't got the time to dedicate to that sort of project. Even > when my gf and little one go to the US this week (she's a US citizen) I've > got 110 other projects to do including a new bathroom! At least I'm in the > museum room proper though, unfortunately I've discovered I've got enough > stuff to fill it 3 times over! This means I've got to rent storage > space....... > > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Aug 1 09:04:31 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB01D@TEGNTSERVER> The CPU card in the Prime 2455 uses 17 pin-grid-array packages with what I think is the Fairchild hallmark (an 'F' with a bar above and a bar below), and the part number is MB15604. Is this an FPGA? Can anyone point me to a datasheet for this device, somewhere on the net, perhaps? Or, failing that, a copy in some format? tia, -doug quebbeman From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Aug 1 09:53:26 2000 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB01D@TEGNTSERVER> Message-ID: The F with a bar above is Fujitsu I think and likely FPGA or more likely just custom gate arrays. Allison On Tue, 1 Aug 2000, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > The CPU card in the Prime 2455 uses 17 pin-grid-array packages > with what I think is the Fairchild hallmark (an 'F' with a bar > above and a bar below), and the part number is MB15604. > > Is this an FPGA? Can anyone point me to a datasheet for this > device, somewhere on the net, perhaps? Or, failing that, a > copy in some format? > > tia, > -doug quebbeman > From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Tue Aug 1 10:07:10 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Scanning microfiche? (Long) Message-ID: Thoughts on drum scanners for scanning microfiche. The best scanners are supposed to be drum scanners. ***WARNING more than you ever want to know about film scanners*** I was once approached by a printing prepress company that used drum scanners that wanted to diversify and scan 14 X 17 inch x-ray film for teleradiology. Here is a little of what they said about drum scanners. 1. They were accustomed to images that were each 1-6 GB. 2. They do the printing of the "slicks" inside the Sunday papers. 3. Each color is on a separate negative. 4. Three colors and black. 5. They use about 3000-8000 dpi, real not interpolated resolution. 6. The negative film is mounted on a clear glass tube. 7. There is a standard light source inside the tube. 8. The tube spins on air bearings and a detector system progresses along the length of the tube measuring the light transmittance of each point in the negative. 9. Transmittance is much more accurate than reflectance. 10. This is not a rapid process. However it is very accurate. 11. Similar systems are used for scanning aerial photographs and magazine printing negatives. 12. Mounting the negative on the drum is very important, any skew will distort the image when the colors are overlaid. This step is very time consuming. 13. I looked into building a simpler version, and determined that the higher the speed of the scan the lower the quality. We needed speed and high quality 14. Now if you want a current model SCSI scanner that could scan microfiche, I suggest a mammography film scanner. High resolution and relatively speedy, however high cost. The shape of the little microcalcifications in a mammogram are very hard to see with anything less than 10 micron spot size scanner. The images are about 5K X 5K over a 8 X 10 inch area. Other scanning systems. Dupont made a laser scanning system for x-ray films, that was the size of a washing machine, about 8 years ago that used a laser beam and would scan a 14 X 17 inch film in 10 seconds and produced a 4K X 4K image. You dropped in the film and the image was scanned and then the film dropped out. However it took the PDP-11 controlling the scanner about 1 minute to transfer the image to a MicroVAX II which then transferred the image via decnet to another MicroVAX II controlling a display. Lots of failure points, the hardware was solid, the software was unable to detect and retry simple timeouts. Especially neat when trying to send images across Kansas on POTS lines during spring weather. Scanners for aperture cards may be another option. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu All scanned out. From jott at saturn.ee.nd.edu Tue Aug 1 10:07:38 2000 From: jott at saturn.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: FREE: TEK 611 Storage Display Unit manual Message-ID: <20000801100738.A9110@saturn> Hello - I have a TEK 611 Storage Display Unit Instruction Manual free for shipping charges. john -- ************************************************************************ * * * * John Ott * Email: jott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * * * * ************************************************************************ From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Aug 1 16:29:36 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 Message-ID: Hello, Still haven't found a boot disk, and not having a vintage Mac, I can't download an image from the net either. Would someone out there who has one be able to make a copy for me? I can send DSDD disks for the process. The internal drive is 3.5", and I have a 5.25" external as well. Cute little devil -- just want to play with it a bit. Kind regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Aug 1 11:18:14 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Info Needed: QBus board Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000801091814.009705a0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> I have a dual-height QBus board from Micro Technology that I cannot identify. I suspect it's a tape/disk/both controller. Model is MQD19. It has the following headers: 2x10-pin, 1x20-pin, 1x34-pin, 1x60-pin. Any ideas? Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From wanderer at bos.nl Tue Aug 1 13:17:57 2000 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: SCSI settings HP 7980 S tapedrive References: <3985E25B.4158@bos.nl> <200007311909.MAA23313@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <39871455.2FB9@bos.nl> Hello Frank, Your info was indeed sufficient, pressing Enter when the SCSI ID was blinking entered the setting mode. Thanks, Ed Frank McConnell wrote: > > wanderer wrote: > > Does anyone know how to change the SCSI id settings on a HP 9 track > > tapedrive model 7980 S? It's current setting is 3 but that is > > conflicting with my disk. There is no thumbwheel and there are > > no visible jumpers to find. > > It's on the front panel. > > You press: You see: > OPTION TEST * > NEXT CONF * > NEXT INFO * > NEXT ID * > ENTER ID (blinking #) > > Hmm, I would think you could press PREV and NEXT to cycle through at > this point, and ENTER to set the ID, but the drive I'm fiddling with > (actually a Tandem 5160) doesn't want to let me use PREV or NEXT here > -- I bet I have to play with a CONF option to unlock the SCSI ID. > And I don't have the manual handy right now. > > -Frank McConnell -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer@bos.nl | Europarlementariers: zakken- http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | vullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R / '97 TL1000S | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates! From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 1 10:24:59 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 1 Aug 2000, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Still haven't found a boot disk, and not having a vintage Mac, I can't > download an image from the net either. > > Would someone out there who has one be able to make a copy for me? I can > send DSDD disks for the process. The internal drive is 3.5", and I have a > 5.25" external as well. > > Cute little devil -- just want to play with it a bit. Turn it on and then press CTRL+RESET. You'll drop into BASIC and then you can play with it. Quick hints: To get into low-res graphics mode: GR High-res: HGR To plot lines or points in lo-res: Points: PLOT x,y Lines: PLOT w,x TO y,z w,x,y,z=0-39 To change colors: COLOR=c c=0-15 To plot lines or points in hi-res: Points: HPLOT x,y x=0-279 y=0-159 Lines: HPLOT w,x to y,z w,y=0-279 x,z=0-159 To change colors: HCOLOR=c c=0-7 To get into the monitor: CALL -151 L - list a section of memory (example: 300L) G - executes instructions (example: 300G) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Aug 1 12:03:49 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool Message-ID: A week or two ago I expressed my doubt that you could still get Wire-Wrapping tools from Radio Shack. Well, I got one on Sunday, so I figured I'd share the part number since the stores ar clueless for the most part (I was dumbfounded to find someone that more or less knew what I was talking about). Wire-Wrapping Tool P/N: 276-1570A It's one of the little ones that looks a little like a Jewelers screwdriver, and it cost a whole $7.49 so needless to say I was just a little bit happy. Now I can finally redo the serial ports on the DLV-11J in my PDP-11/73 :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Aug 1 12:12:24 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Scanning microfiche? (Long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000801100329.00bfaa10@208.226.86.10> To add to Mikes article (which was pretty darn complete BTW), I used to work at the Image Processing Lab in the Engineering school of USC. The lab's charter was image processing and we had a very nice "Micron" scanner (I don't think it had any relation to the current Micron computer company). Dial in optics gave you .001, .0001, and .00001 (100, 1000, and 10,000 DPI) There was an option for 100,000 DPI that we didn't have but there wasn't much call for it. The scanner was run by a PDP-11/55t (since scrapped :-() that scanned to disk and then out to tape. All of which says, consider looking for a local university to see if they might have some high density scanning material. Of course it was a drum scanner and it took probably 10-20 minutes to scan a single image (so that's a couple of years for 10,000 fiche!) However, if you "think analog" you'll see that you can in fact scan these with a cheap scanner but you will need to optically expand them to get the gain. Using a standard darkroom enlarger with a 10x enlargement to a piece of onion paper on the bed of the scanner would work. A typical 600 dpi scanner gets 600DPI effective that way (no interpolation). Once you have the setup it could be relatively mindless work but not impossible. Of course, it will always be a time and money kind of thing. At 0.07/image how much is your time worth? --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Aug 1 12:46:52 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Remote Services Consoles REVEALED! In-Reply-To: <00Aug1.123538bst.46091@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: >> The dial in line uses the DDCMP protocol to insure data >> integrity. I'm not >> sure what this means in terms of being able to dial it from a PC. > >You won't be able to unless you've got DECnet running on your PC AND have >some form of DDCMP protocol stack.......it's asynchronous DECnet. Does Linux do asynchronous DECnet? I've had mine one Linux box speaking DECnet over ethernet. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 1 14:15:50 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's In-Reply-To: (message from William Donzelli on Mon, 31 Jul 2000 20:56:41 -0400 (EDT)) References: Message-ID: <20000801191550.19431.qmail@brouhaha.com> William Donzelli wrote: > It seems that VHDL (and Verilog) has moved 99.9 percent away from its > original purpose, that of pure documentation According to the references I have handy, VHDL was originally intended primarily for simulation. I can't find a single reference to any intention that it serve solely as documentation. As somewhat of a secondary objective, VHDL was intended to support synthesis; there's a very recent IEEE standard for that. Verilog was intended for both synthesis and simulation. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 1 14:17:01 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB01D@TEGNTSERVER> (message from Douglas Quebbeman on Tue, 1 Aug 2000 10:04:31 -0400) References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB01D@TEGNTSERVER> Message-ID: <20000801191701.19441.qmail@brouhaha.com> Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > The CPU card in the Prime 2455 uses 17 pin-grid-array packages > with what I think is the Fairchild hallmark (an 'F' with a bar > above and a bar below), and the part number is MB15604. Fujitsu. > Is this an FPGA? More likely a gate array (non-field-programmable). From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 1 14:18:39 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Scanning microfiche? (Long) In-Reply-To: (mmcfadden@cmh.edu) References: Message-ID: <20000801191839.19467.qmail@brouhaha.com> "McFadden, Mike" wrote: > 5. They use about 3000-8000 dpi, real not interpolated resolution. [...] > 14. Now if you want a current model SCSI scanner that could scan microfiche, > I suggest a mammography film scanner. High resolution and relatively > speedy, however high cost. The shape of the little microcalcifications in a > mammogram are very hard to see with anything less than 10 micron spot size > scanner. The images are about 5K X 5K over a 8 X 10 inch area. Not enough resolution. We need about 15K dpi. I've found 12K dpi drum scanners for about $50K; they might be marginally adequate. From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Tue Aug 1 14:25:48 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? In-Reply-To: <20000801191701.19441.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <000a01bffbee$4ccd1480$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Is this a bad time for this question? Why the terms PGA != PLA != PLD != ??? Does this just represent different manufacturers trying to control market lingo? John A. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 1 12:44:03 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Switch-Mode PSU Failure Modes, Repairs, & Parts Substitutions In-Reply-To: <001901bffb59$9f53e5c0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> from "Geoff Roberts" at Aug 1, 0 11:11:32 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3915 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000801/3c5f1c09/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 1 12:54:08 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB01D@TEGNTSERVER> from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Aug 1, 0 10:04:31 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 422 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000801/2f13ca24/attachment.ksh From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 1 14:53:31 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: microfiche and scanning Message-ID: <200008011953.NAA12349@calico.litterbox.com> Since y'all are talking seriously expensive hardware ($50,000 and up), here's a much cheaper thought. Get a photographic enlarger and hack the film holder to hold the fiche, then blow the fiche up optically to 12x17. This quadruples the size and thereby reduces the necessary reslolution from 5000x5000 to 1250x1250, which a top end consumer scanner or midrange pro scannershould be able to do. The scanner may set you back a thousand dollars or more, but the other 49,000 buys a lot of photographic paper and chemicals... -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 1 15:12:14 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? Message-ID: Tony, Yeah, I think it is something gross like a mask-rom or somethin, I used to have one of those chips and never could find any info.. neat package though (pga, has a shiny silver colored square in middle). Anyway, yes, the logo is for Fujitsu, and the MB prefix is also an indicatiton of it being a Fujitsu part. Fairchild's logo is more of an italicized F.. Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From spc at armigeron.com Tue Aug 1 15:29:14 2000 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Commodore 64 available Message-ID: <200008012029.QAA29956@armigeron.com> I received the following from a friend on another mailing list (not computer related) and thought I would forward it here. Please respond directly to Rosalie if you are interested. -spc (Thought you guys might be able to help her) Forwarded message: > From trailpal@mailcity.com Thu Jul 27 20:25:48 2000 > To: spc@armigeron.com > Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2000 17:25:01 -0700 > From: "trail pal" > Message-ID: > Mime-Version: 1.0 > X-Sent-Mail: off > Reply-To: trailpal@lycos.com > X-Expiredinmiddle: true > X-Mailer: MailCity Service > Subject: Re: [dw] UPS rant > X-Sender-Ip: 134.4.50.89 > Organization: Lycos Communications (http://comm.lycos.com:80) > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Language: en > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Sean - > > I have a commodore 64 from around 1980, plus associated printer, tapedrive, diskdrive, joysticks, and software. Any ideas on : > a) possiblity of working? > b) possibility of selling it to someone? > Oh, yeah, I also have books on programming the 4-voice midi synth in it and something called a "memory map". > > Just wondering whether to hang onto it or find it a better home. > > Rosalie From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Aug 1 15:54:47 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? In-Reply-To: <000a01bffbee$4ccd1480$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> References: <20000801191701.19441.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000801134613.00c503c0@208.226.86.10> >Is this a bad time for this question? > > Why the terms PGA != PLA != PLD != ??? PGA - sometimes it is "Programmable Gate Array" some times "Pin Grid Array" (former is a chip architecture the latter is package type) > Does this just represent different > manufacturers trying to control > market lingo? On the contrary, it is a reaction to that. The first time I was exposed to programmable logic it was with "PAL"s. These are fuse programmed and-or-invert gates tied to an array of interconnects. The term PAL was trademarked by the parent company (whose name escapes me at the moment MMD?, but AMD bought them) and so the generic term was "PLA" (programmable logic array). When the networks within the chip became more complex they weren't really "arrays" anymore and so the generic term for a logic device that could be programmed was "PLD" (programmable logic device). This included memories with programmable chip select logic on chip, and traditional PLAs etc. Erasable devices were called EPLDs. Then "Gate Arrays" became dense enough to be practical and the chips were referred to as "ASICs" (Application Specific ICs) or Gate arrays, or programmed gate arrays (PGAs) but the last was confusing with the package type. Then gate arrays that could be programmed in the field (versus mask programmed) made their debut and they were called Field programmable gate arrays (FPGAs). Devices that were still logic cells that could be combined but had higher densities are called Complex PLDS or CPLDs. --Chuck From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Tue Aug 1 16:10:29 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB029@TEGNTSERVER> > The first time I was exposed to programmable logic it was with "PAL"s. > These are fuse programmed and-or-invert gates tied to an array of > interconnects. The term PAL was trademarked by the parent company (whose > name escapes me at the moment MMD?, but AMD bought them) and so the generic TI's PALs have their numbers printed on the chip as PAL162LA, etc., so I would have guessed TI... -dq From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 1 15:58:44 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? In-Reply-To: from "Will Jennings" at Aug 1, 0 02:12:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 765 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000801/00575c74/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 1 16:00:09 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000801134613.00c503c0@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Aug 1, 0 01:54:47 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 265 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000801/ddad934b/attachment.ksh From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Aug 1 16:21:51 2000 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Fujitsu IC Info needed Message-ID: Does anyone have a listing of Fujitsu chips? I have a bunch of MB15140s that I would like to know what they are. I believe they were used on the 8" Hard Drive line. I have had other Fujitsu chips but have never seen an index. Thanks. Paxton From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Aug 1 16:33:57 2000 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: microfiche and scanning Message-ID: <37.84ac85d.26b89c45@aol.com> In a message dated 8/1/2000 1:00:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jim@calico.litterbox.com writes: > Get a photographic enlarger and hack the film holder > to hold the fiche, then blow the fiche up optically to 12x17 The trouble with this is the time to do it. 10,000 fiche is at least 40, 000 pages. Doing this manually would take years of spare time. For a large volume the best answer is to invest in one of the Canon Fiche to CD-ROM Printers that has been mentioned earlier. I know a couple of people who do this as a service business (and have been doing it for several years now). The equipment should be available used if one wants to save money. I have contacts in the microfilm equipment business if you want to contact me offline. Paxton From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 1 17:25:34 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? In-Reply-To: <000a01bffbee$4ccd1480$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> (John.Allain@donnelley.infousa.com) References: <000a01bffbee$4ccd1480$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: <20000801222534.21379.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Why the terms PGA != PLA != PLD != ??? PGA is a Pin Grid Array, which is a package type. No direct relation to the other terms. A PLA is a Programmable Logic Array. It has a programmable OR matrix followed by a programmable AND matrix. This is the most general combinatorial logic device, but has mostly been replaced by PAL, CPLDs, etc. An FPLA is a Field-Programmable Logic Array. There used to be mask-programmable logic arrays, but they're not really available as standalone parts any more, so the term FPLA has mostly fallen out of use. A PAL is like a PLA but with the AND matrix fixed. A PLD is a Programmable Logic Device, and can be almost anything. A CPLD is a Complex Programmable Logic Device, which just means one with lots of pins or terms. There's no well-defined threshold beyond which a PLD becomes a CPLD. An EPLD is an Erasable Programmable Logic Device. Since almost all current stuff is electrically erasable, this term has mostly fallen out of use. An FPGA is a Field-Programmable Gate Array. These typically are "finer-grained" than a CPLD; they have simpler logic elements, but more of them, and more routing resources. > Does this just represent different > manufacturers trying to control > market lingo? Maybe. But mostly I think it's more a matter of the lack of standardization, rather than attempted "control". From aw288 at osfn.org Tue Aug 1 17:30:00 2000 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's In-Reply-To: <20000801191550.19431.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > According to the references I have handy, VHDL was originally intended > primarily for simulation. I can't find a single reference to any intention > that it serve solely as documentation. OK, maybe not solely, but one of the big points was that as the military came up with the chips from the VHSIC project, and knwoing the military, having them in service for 30 years, VHDL could be used to make more long after the originals (and original makers) are gone. Apparently the idea has worked well enough that some of the older weapons systems (pre-VHDL) are getting "redone" using the language (there is some military too-complicated acronym for the project). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 1 17:31:32 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000801134613.00c503c0@208.226.86.10> (message from Chuck McManis on Tue, 01 Aug 2000 13:54:47 -0700) References: <20000801191701.19441.qmail@brouhaha.com> <4.3.2.7.2.20000801134613.00c503c0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <20000801223132.21422.qmail@brouhaha.com> Chuck wrote: > The term PAL was trademarked by the parent company (whose > name escapes me at the moment MMD?, but AMD bought them) MMI, Monolithic Memories Inc. > and so the generic > term was "PLA" (programmable logic array). PLA predated PALs by many years. The PAL is a *less* flexible version of a PLA. In a PLA, both the AND and OR matrices are programmable. In a PAL, only the AND matrix is programmable. The OR matrix is fixed. For instance, a PAL16L8 has eight OR gates (with output inverters, so they're effectively NOR), but each OR gate has exactly eight AND terms. In a PLA, there are a large number of AND terms, which may each be wired to any combination of the OR gate inputs, and may be connected to more than one OR gate. Many later PLDs (Programmable Logic Devices, a fairly generic term) have added flexibility to the OR matrix, allowing some amount of product term sharing. But generally they have not gone back to the same degree of flexibility as the PLA. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 1 17:32:16 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:38 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB029@TEGNTSERVER> (message from Douglas Quebbeman on Tue, 1 Aug 2000 17:10:29 -0400) References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB029@TEGNTSERVER> Message-ID: <20000801223216.21434.qmail@brouhaha.com> > TI's PALs have their numbers printed on the chip as PAL162LA, etc., so > I would have guessed TI... TI and National Semiconductor were licensed second sources, and thus allowed to use the trademark. From vaxman at uswest.net Tue Aug 1 17:26:52 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:39 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Scanning microfiche? (Long) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wow! Thanks, Mike! On Tue, 1 Aug 2000, McFadden, Mike wrote: > Thoughts on drum scanners for scanning microfiche. > The best scanners are supposed to be drum scanners. > ***WARNING more than you ever want to know about film scanners*** > From vaxman at uswest.net Tue Aug 1 17:36:00 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:39 2005 Subject: Fujitsu IC Info needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fujitsu offers foundry services in addition to their own line of chips. These parts may be custom ASICs made for some other manufacturer. clint On Tue, 1 Aug 2000 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > Does anyone have a listing of Fujitsu chips? I have a bunch of MB15140s that > I would like to know what they are. I believe they were used on the 8" Hard > Drive line. I have had other Fujitsu chips but have never seen an index. > Thanks. > Paxton > > From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Aug 1 18:09:49 2000 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:39 2005 Subject: EPROM Folly (was: Re: Discontinued IC's:... In-Reply-To: <20000801222534.21379.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <000a01bffbee$4ccd1480$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> <000a01bffbee$4ccd1480$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000801190949.00a9e990@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Eric Smith may have mentioned these words: >> Why the terms PGA != PLA != PLD != ??? > >PGA is a Pin Grid Array, which is a package type. No direct relation to >the other terms. [Big Ol' Snip] I have a question: How many people here *hate* the term OTP-EPROM? EPROM as most people here know is Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory... but an OTP-EPROM is short for One Time Programmable Erasable Programmable Read Only Memory Basically, it's an FAMOS-based EPROM chip in a plastic package and can be programmed by a regular EPROM programmer - but as it's got a plastic package, it can't be erased or reprogrammed (hence the addition of OTP) - If it can't be erased or reprogrammed, why not just call the damn thing a PROM?????????????????? Just one of those stupid things I think about... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue Aug 1 19:03:32 2000 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:39 2005 Subject: EPROM Folly (was: Re: Discontinued IC's:... Message-ID: <000801200332.2020029c@trailing-edge.com> * Basically, it's an FAMOS-based EPROM chip in a plastic package and can be * programmed by a regular EPROM programmer - but as it's got a plastic * package, it can't be erased or reprogrammed (hence the addition of OTP) - * If it can't be erased or reprogrammed, why not just call the damn thing a * PROM?????????????????? Two ways to erase: 1. Just wait a long time. The bits will start fading after a few decades, maybe in a good chunk of a millenium they'll all be set back to the factory state :-). 2. X-Rays. Lotsa lotsa X-rays. Tim. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 1 19:00:13 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:40 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 & RK05 Questions In-Reply-To: <000701bd16a9$79747000$99713ed8@compaq> from "Owen Robertson" at Jan 1, 98 05:36:16 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3929 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000802/628dba27/attachment.ksh From mbillian at erols.com Tue Aug 1 19:14:32 2000 From: mbillian at erols.com (mbillian) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:40 2005 Subject: Unusual Power Cord Message-ID: <398767E7.646BC563@erols.com> I recenlty wrote a posting in search of an unusal power cord and some missing keys for a Compucorp 140 calculator. After contacting many collectors on the net who didn't know of a source for the cord, I found one at a shop in California. If anyone's interested they can be bought unused for $8 at: Mercury Document Imaging Company, Inc. Joel F. Volk (818) 782-1221 www. PanasonicCopiers.com (Office Systems) www.MercuryBizSupplies.com (Office Supplies) "power cord (fits 1 in dia socket with 3 pins in equilateral triangle on 3/8" spacing), 'chg sign' key, 'reset' key and the key with 2 bell shaped curves on it (or a complete junk unit)". Mitch Billian From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 1 19:23:29 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:40 2005 Subject: EPROM Folly (was: Re: Discontinued IC's:... In-Reply-To: <000801200332.2020029c@trailing-edge.com> (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) References: <000801200332.2020029c@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <20000802002329.22609.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Two ways to erase: > 2. X-Rays. Lotsa lotsa X-rays. X-Rays won't do it. High enough exposure will damage the part, but they won't erase it first. From elvey at hal.com Tue Aug 1 19:26:57 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:40 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200008020026.RAA17219@civic.hal.com> "Will Jennings" wrote: > Tony, > Yeah, I think it is something gross like a mask-rom or somethin, I used to > have one of those chips and never could find any info.. neat package though > (pga, has a shiny silver colored square in middle). Anyway, yes, the logo is > for Fujitsu, and the MB prefix is also an indicatiton of it being a Fujitsu > part. Fairchild's logo is more of an italicized F.. > Hi working for a Fujitsu company, I can tell you that the F's with the bar are Fujitsu. Also, Fujitsu uses the MBxxxxx numbers for parts. As near as I can tell, the numbers have no meaning other than you can tell that one was assigned after the other. The part is most likely an ASIC since Fujitsu is a major foundary for a lot of people. Although I work for a Fujitsu company, I have no way to tell what any of their parts are unless it is one of the ones we design. I've looked for other part on the web without results. I'm sure someone knows, I just don't know who. Dwight From west at tseinc.com Tue Aug 1 19:25:33 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:40 2005 Subject: classiccmp list archive, digest changes, and a free offer Message-ID: <009c01bffc18$2ccfe520$0101a8c0@jay> Greetings! Several changes people have been asking about... here's the status.... 1) The classiccmp mailing list archives at www.classiccmp.org are now reworked and up to date. We are still using hypermail which takes the mailing list traffic and automagically creates the website, organized by year, month, thread, etc. etc. A background process is *STILL* running to populate the rest of year 1999 (other years, including 2000, are already done) but it should be done in an hour or two perhaps (theres a LOT of mail to process in portions of that year). There is a month or two missing, but those months are actually missing from the raw datafiles. I assume that the list was not functioning during those times (before [and perhaps while] it was being moved to my servers). 2) The hypermail task has been set up as a cron job to keep the mailing list archives at www.classiccmp.org up to date without operator intervention. Because the mailing list is hosted by a server sitting right next to the classiccmp webserver, updates to the archive will be especially fast. 3) Previously, digest subscribers could get multiple digests per day if the size of the digest was large (ie. it could be split into multiple emails if the size went over a threshold). Due to popular request, that is no longer the case. The digest will now send only one email per day to digest subscribers no matter what the size. 4) Several people have asked - I don't have their email addresses here... so once again - publicly, to subscribe or unsubscribe send an email to majordomo@classiccmp.org. Any list traffic should go to classiccmp@classiccmp.org. When subscribing you tell it which list you want to subscribe to, either the normal list or the digest list. Hope this gets everything in order. Once again, I will gladly host any website, ftpsite, mailinglist, etc. that has to do with classic computers at no charge - unlimited traffic, unlimited storage, no fees of any kind. I am currently connected to 5 major backbones via 100mb ethernet (and offer local dialup in over 152 US cities [shameless plug]), so the transfer speeds should be acceptable. The only thing I ask is that if the disk storage requirements are unusually large (say, greater than 10gb) that you buy your own hard drive and ship it to me. I'll mount it in one of our servers and the drive will still belong to you and be dedicated to your use only. If you decide to move, you get the drive back of course. I'll do this for free, I feel it's something I can give back to the folks on the list for all the endless advice I've gotten out of it. Ok, if a few RK05's and 7900A disc drives show up anonymously, I won't complain either . It would be nice if we could get a lot of subsites under the www.classiccmp.org site, sort of like a portal. At the very least we need some links to classiccmp sites there. Anyone care to throw together a main page for this (I'm not an html person, and our webdevelopment staff is working overtime already)? Then all the subsites that folks host on my server could be at www.classiccmp.org/mydecstuff and www.classiccmp.org/hprules for example. Of course, if you want your own domain name that's fine too. Regards! Jay West From west at tseinc.com Tue Aug 1 19:30:38 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:40 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 & RK05 Questions References: Message-ID: <00aa01bffc18$e2b39da0$0101a8c0@jay> Tony already addressed the cleaning issues quite well. There's one thing I'd add (unless tony did and I missed it).... The HP manuals for most of the 79xx series drives says to use tape to clean up particles that have accumulated on the hub/spindle, positioner rails, and even just anywhere inside the case were particles have built up (typically metal). I found that putting on the tape and pulling it up did a great job myself. Jay West From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 1 19:47:56 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:40 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool References: Message-ID: <002b01bffc1b$4d65d8a0$0500c0a8@winbook> What??? They've got 'em again??? I'd best get down there and snag a couple! Those are among a very few decent items they've had in the 25 years or so since I first visited RS. It has a wire stripper in the handle, IIRC. That's one of the handiest tools I've had. It is quite capable of producing highly serviceable wraps, yet doesn't require you to mess up your circuit. If you need one or two to put in various places where you whittle on your work or that of others, I'd certainly recommend you give this one a try. There's a little cut-n-strip tool made originally by OK-Tool Co. that's also a handy tool for the occasonal wrapper's toolkit. It cuts off thewire and strips a nominally 1" length of it at the end all in basically one stroke. (When you pull the tool off, you take the insulation with you.) As Martha Stewart would say, " It's a good thing!" Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Zane H. Healy To: Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:03 AM Subject: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool > A week or two ago I expressed my doubt that you could still get > Wire-Wrapping tools from Radio Shack. Well, I got one on Sunday, so I > figured I'd share the part number since the stores ar clueless for the most > part (I was dumbfounded to find someone that more or less knew what I was > talking about). > > Wire-Wrapping Tool P/N: 276-1570A > > It's one of the little ones that looks a little like a Jewelers > screwdriver, and it cost a whole $7.49 so needless to say I was just a > little bit happy. Now I can finally redo the serial ports on the DLV-11J > in my PDP-11/73 :^) > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > > From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 1 19:49:39 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:40 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB01D@TEGNTSERVER> <20000801191701.19441.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <003501bffc1b$8a7c9440$0500c0a8@winbook> Yup! I have to agree, it's a FUJITSU part, and probably ECL if in the small quad ceramic flatpack. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Smith To: Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 1:17 PM Subject: Re: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? > Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > The CPU card in the Prime 2455 uses 17 pin-grid-array packages > > with what I think is the Fairchild hallmark (an 'F' with a bar > > above and a bar below), and the part number is MB15604. > > Fujitsu. > > > Is this an FPGA? > > More likely a gate array (non-field-programmable). > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 1 19:45:01 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:40 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 & RK05 Questions In-Reply-To: <00aa01bffc18$e2b39da0$0101a8c0@jay> from "Jay West" at Aug 1, 0 07:30:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 484 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000802/6368469e/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Aug 1 20:39:35 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:40 2005 Subject: classiccmp list archive, digest changes, and a free offer References: <009c01bffc18$2ccfe520$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <003201bffc22$856464e0$53701fd1@default> How does one go about updating their address and for phone number on the rescue list ?? Thanks John Keys ----- Original Message ----- From: Jay West To: Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 7:25 PM Subject: classiccmp list archive, digest changes, and a free offer > Greetings! > > Several changes people have been asking about... here's the status.... > > 1) The classiccmp mailing list archives at www.classiccmp.org are now > reworked and up to date. We are still using hypermail which takes the > mailing list traffic and automagically creates the website, organized by > year, month, thread, etc. etc. A background process is *STILL* running to > populate the rest of year 1999 (other years, including 2000, are already > done) but it should be done in an hour or two perhaps (theres a LOT of mail > to process in portions of that year). There is a month or two missing, but > those months are actually missing from the raw datafiles. I assume that the > list was not functioning during those times (before [and perhaps while] it > was being moved to my servers). > > 2) The hypermail task has been set up as a cron job to keep the mailing list > archives at www.classiccmp.org up to date without operator intervention. > Because the mailing list is hosted by a server sitting right next to the > classiccmp webserver, updates to the archive will be especially fast. > > 3) Previously, digest subscribers could get multiple digests per day if the > size of the digest was large (ie. it could be split into multiple emails if > the size went over a threshold). Due to popular request, that is no longer > the case. The digest will now send only one email per day to digest > subscribers no matter what the size. > > 4) Several people have asked - I don't have their email addresses here... so > once again - publicly, to subscribe or unsubscribe send an email to > majordomo@classiccmp.org. Any list traffic should go to > classiccmp@classiccmp.org. When subscribing you tell it which list you want > to subscribe to, either the normal list or the digest list. > > Hope this gets everything in order. > > Once again, I will gladly host any website, ftpsite, mailinglist, etc. that > has to do with classic computers at no charge - unlimited traffic, unlimited > storage, no fees of any kind. I am currently connected to 5 major backbones > via 100mb ethernet (and offer local dialup in over 152 US cities [shameless > plug]), so the transfer speeds should be acceptable. The only thing I ask is > that if the disk storage requirements are unusually large (say, greater than > 10gb) that you buy your own hard drive and ship it to me. I'll mount it in > one of our servers and the drive will still belong to you and be dedicated > to your use only. If you decide to move, you get the drive back of course. > I'll do this for free, I feel it's something I can give back to the folks on > the list for all the endless advice I've gotten out of it. Ok, if a few > RK05's and 7900A disc drives show up anonymously, I won't complain either > . > > It would be nice if we could get a lot of subsites under the > www.classiccmp.org site, sort of like a portal. At the very least we need > some links to classiccmp sites there. Anyone care to throw together a main > page for this (I'm not an html person, and our webdevelopment staff is > working overtime already)? Then all the subsites that folks host on my > server could be at www.classiccmp.org/mydecstuff and > www.classiccmp.org/hprules for example. Of course, if you want your own > domain name that's fine too. > > Regards! > > Jay West > > > > From west at tseinc.com Tue Aug 1 20:49:39 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:40 2005 Subject: classiccmp list archive, digest changes, and a free offer References: <009c01bffc18$2ccfe520$0101a8c0@jay> <003201bffc22$856464e0$53701fd1@default> Message-ID: <00dc01bffc23$eca8bec0$0101a8c0@jay> John wrote... ----- Original Message ----- From: John R. Keys Jr. To: Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 8:39 PM Subject: Re: classiccmp list archive, digest changes, and a free offer > How does one go about updating their address and for phone number on the > rescue list ?? Thanks You mean the classic computer rescue squad? :) That's a different site. It's at http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ on that page it says to change your info email to mailto:yakowxenk@csx.unxc.edu (remove all 3 x's)?subject=CCRS HTH Jay West From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 1 23:04:54 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? References: <200008020026.RAA17219@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <003901bffc36$f3855ba0$0500c0a8@winbook> The use of the Fujitsu prefix MB suggests it's a standard-line part. If you're still discussing those quad flat-packs, however, it's not likely it's an EPROM because it would have too few pins to be even a smallish EPROM. Moreover that's an inappropriate package for an EPROM that has to be programmed, considering the handling equipment of the time when these packages were in use. It is probably analog, or may even be some small scratchpad ram or some such. With only 17 pins, it can't be much more than a 1k-bit memory. Both Fujitsu and Hitachi made an extensive array of high-speed memories for mainframes and supercomputers. It could be that you have a really fast 16-bit ECL memory in a package that would make for a nice pair of cuff links or a high-tech tie-tack. A look at their web site might not be a bad idea. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Dwight Elvey To: Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 6:26 PM Subject: Re[2]: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? > "Will Jennings" wrote: > > Tony, > > Yeah, I think it is something gross like a mask-rom or somethin, I used to > > have one of those chips and never could find any info.. neat package though > > (pga, has a shiny silver colored square in middle). Anyway, yes, the logo is > > for Fujitsu, and the MB prefix is also an indicatiton of it being a Fujitsu > > part. Fairchild's logo is more of an italicized F.. > > > > Hi > working for a Fujitsu company, I can tell you that the > F's with the bar are Fujitsu. Also, Fujitsu uses the MBxxxxx > numbers for parts. As near as I can tell, the numbers have > no meaning other than you can tell that one was assigned > after the other. The part is most likely an ASIC since > Fujitsu is a major foundary for a lot of people. > Although I work for a Fujitsu company, I have no way to tell > what any of their parts are unless it is one of the ones > we design. I've looked for other part on the web without > results. I'm sure someone knows, I just don't know who. > Dwight > > From marvin at rain.org Wed Aug 2 00:17:09 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool References: <002b01bffc1b$4d65d8a0$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <3987AED5.9FBC254A@rain.org> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > If you need one or two to put in various places where you whittle on your > work or that of others, I'd certainly recommend you give this one a try. > There's a little cut-n-strip tool made originally by OK-Tool Co. that's also > a handy tool for the occasonal wrapper's toolkit. It cuts off thewire and > strips a nominally 1" length of it at the end all in basically one stroke. > (When you pull the tool off, you take the insulation with you.) Another wirewrap tool I have used (and fell in love with at the first use) is one that strips and wraps in one step. Granted, it is used on a wirewrap gun but it sure speeds up the process of wirewrapping!!! IIRC, it is also made by OK Tool. From jate at uwasa.fi Wed Aug 2 02:08:09 2000 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: HP 35401 protocol extensions ? Message-ID: <20000802100808.A470@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Hello all! Does anyone know of the autochanger extensions for HP 35401 eight tape jukebox ? It's based on an HP 9144 cartridge drive and is compatible with it in normal operation, but I can't find the autochanger extensions *anywhere*! I'm hoping to write a driver for NetBSD and I have it working in "9144-mode", I'd just like to use the changer too:) If nothing helps I'll just chuck it back to my screaming dual-processor, WIN/TCP enabled HP 9000/550:) TIA, -- Jarkko Teppo jate@uwasa.fi From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Aug 2 09:38:47 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Scanning microfiche? (Long) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000801100329.00bfaa10@208.226.86.10> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000802093638.02fb9ec0@pc> At 10:12 AM 8/1/00 -0700, Chuck McManis wrote: >However, if you "think analog" you'll see that you can in fact scan these with a cheap scanner but you will need to optically expand them to get the gain. Using a standard darkroom enlarger with a 10x enlargement to a piece of onion paper on the bed of the scanner would work. Is that a day dream, or have you actually tried this enlarger/onionskin approach? I know using a scanner for 2D-ish 3D objects works great, but scanning a projected image? When a transparency-adapted scanner scans, doesn't it turn off the internal light and rely on the transmissive light? Wouldn't you want to do the same with the projected image? - John From richard at idcomm.com Wed Aug 2 09:42:49 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool References: <002b01bffc1b$4d65d8a0$0500c0a8@winbook> <3987AED5.9FBC254A@rain.org> Message-ID: <001f01bffc8f$eeb00860$0500c0a8@winbook> The OK-Tool cut-strip-n-wrap bit was not highly regarded back in the mid '80's, when it was offered via magazine ads. I never tried one since I had a couple of the Gardner-Denver wire-wrap guns, each with a cut-strip-wrap bit back then, and, though the battery packs are damaged and the associated battery-powered tool doesn't work any more, the AC-powered gun still works great, including the cut-strip-wrp bits. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Marvin To: Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 11:17 PM Subject: Re: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool > > > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > If you need one or two to put in various places where you whittle on your > > work or that of others, I'd certainly recommend you give this one a try. > > There's a little cut-n-strip tool made originally by OK-Tool Co. that's also > > a handy tool for the occasonal wrapper's toolkit. It cuts off thewire and > > strips a nominally 1" length of it at the end all in basically one stroke. > > (When you pull the tool off, you take the insulation with you.) > > Another wirewrap tool I have used (and fell in love with at the first use) > is one that strips and wraps in one step. Granted, it is used on a wirewrap > gun but it sure speeds up the process of wirewrapping!!! IIRC, it is also > made by OK Tool. > > From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Aug 2 09:58:50 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Classic gaming Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000802095831.0259bea0@pc> MSNBC story on classic gaming: http://www.msnbc.com/news/439998.asp - John From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 2 10:08:41 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Scanning microfiche? (Long) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000802093638.02fb9ec0@pc> Message-ID: Would this make it ON-Topic to offer up a 4 x 5 Beseler for sale cheap? Dichroic head? How about some stabilization processors? I think that I already have a taker for my movie/microfilm (not fiche) processing equipment. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, John Foust wrote: > At 10:12 AM 8/1/00 -0700, Chuck McManis wrote: > >However, if you "think analog" you'll see that you can in fact scan these with a cheap scanner but you will need to optically expand them to get the gain. Using a standard darkroom enlarger with a 10x enlargement to a piece of onion paper on the bed of the scanner would work. > > Is that a day dream, or have you actually tried this enlarger/onionskin > approach? I know using a scanner for 2D-ish 3D objects works great, > but scanning a projected image? When a transparency-adapted scanner > scans, doesn't it turn off the internal light and rely on the > transmissive light? Wouldn't you want to do the same with the > projected image? > > - John From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Aug 2 10:13:07 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: HP 35401 protocol extensions ? In-Reply-To: Jarkko Teppo's message of "Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:08:09 +0300" References: <20000802100808.A470@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: <200008021513.IAA97974@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Jarkko Teppo wrote: > Does anyone know of the autochanger extensions for HP 35401 eight tape > jukebox ? It's based on an HP 9144 cartridge drive and is compatible > with it in normal operation, but I can't find the autochanger extensions > *anywhere*! Hmm, I wonder if that's what the CS/80 "Set Volume" command is for. The command is 0x40, with the volume number (0-7) or'd into the three least significant bits. > If nothing helps I'll just chuck it back to my screaming dual-processor, > WIN/TCP enabled HP 9000/550:) You know with a hook like that I can't resist, right? I'm (or was, anyway, TWG is pretty much gone now) the last maintainer of WIN/TCP for the HP9000 series 500. How does the changer work from HP-UX on the 550? Can it be told to pick a specific cartridge, or does it just step through cartridges as each is unloaded? We didn't have a changer; well, we did, but it was either me or the guy who did the backups. -Frank McConnell From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Wed Aug 2 10:59:01 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Pointer to commercial site for microfiche scanners Message-ID: I found this on the Web www.mekel.com Makes microfiche and microfilm scanners OT: Most unusual use of a scanner, scanned x-ray film images of chicken legs, to determine bone density. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Wed Aug 2 13:11:17 2000 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: classiccmp list archive, digest changes, and a free offer Message-ID: <200008021811.OAA00942@swordfin.cs.unc.edu> That list, plus some related classiccmp stuff, is still here: http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ Guess I should advertise more. I'm still maintaining the Classic Computer Rescue Squad list, albeit without the quick response time of the good old days. If you need a change, just drop me a line. If the change hasn't been plugged in within a week or so, you may want to write again and remind me about it. :-/ Cheers, Bill. On Tue, 1 Aug 2000, "Jay West" wrote: > Subject: Re: classiccmp list archive, digest changes, and a free offer > > John wrote... > - ----- Original Message ----- > From: John R. Keys Jr. > To: > Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 8:39 PM > Subject: Re: classiccmp list archive, digest changes, and a free offer > > > > How does one go about updating their address and for phone number on the > > rescue list ?? Thanks > > You mean the classic computer rescue squad? :) > > That's a different site. It's at http://www.cs.unc.edu/~yakowenk/classiccmp/ > > on that page it says to change your info email to > mailto:yakowxenk@csx.unxc.edu (remove all 3 x's)?subject=CCRS > > HTH > > Jay West From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Aug 2 13:53:22 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Discontinued IC's: Fairchild (?) MB15604; FPGA? In-Reply-To: <003901bffc36$f3855ba0$0500c0a8@winbook> (richard@idcomm.com) References: <200008020026.RAA17219@civic.hal.com> <003901bffc36$f3855ba0$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <20000802185322.31926.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Richard Erlacher" wrote: > The use of the Fujitsu prefix MB suggests it's a standard-line part. Not really. Fujitsu uses the MB prefix for almost all chips they make. I've definitely seen gate arrays and full-custom parts from them with MB numbers. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Aug 2 13:55:30 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: HP 35401 protocol extensions ? In-Reply-To: <20000802100808.A470@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> (message from Jarkko Teppo on Wed, 2 Aug 2000 10:08:09 +0300) References: <20000802100808.A470@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: <20000802185530.31952.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Does anyone know of the autochanger extensions for HP 35401 eight tape > jukebox ? It's based on an HP 9144 cartridge drive and is compatible > with it in normal operation, but I can't find the autochanger extensions > *anywhere*! If the interface is SCSI, they may use the standard SCSI changer command set. Normally this would be done using either a separate SCSI ID, or a separate LUN on the same ID. However, some vendors (Seagate comes to mind) will acccept SCSI changer commands to the drive ID/LUN. On the other hand, I've never heard of a SCSI 9144. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 2 13:59:32 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Computers available in Portland, Oregon Message-ID: NOTE: If you can't pick up in the Portland, Oregon area don't bother reading. I really do not have time to deal with shipping I'm afraid. OK, the time has come for me to part with a *LARGE* chunk of my collection. I'm plaining on retaining basically all the DEC stuff and a few other systems. However, that still leaves a LOT of systems that need to go. There is a lot of Apple ][ systems of various models, as well as several Apple ][ clones. A whole pile of Amiga stuff, and lots of other systems. A fairly complete list, that doesn't mention how many of each type I have can be found at http://zane.brouhaha.com/healyzh/MuseumNoFrames.html The list also doesn't mention all the manuals and other bits and pieces that I've got for the systems. I'm interested in interesting trades, as I'm still looking for additional DEC stuff (nothing to big though). I'd also be interested in cash. Basically make an offer. I'm willing to part with just about anything in the collection, with a few exceptions, IF the price (or trade) is right. Unless you can pick it up during the week in the morning, I won't be available on weekends until the 26th most likely, though I might be able squeeze something in on the 12th or 13th. There will be some DEC stuff available at a later date most likely, and I'd currently not mind getting rid of my collection of DECmate III's, and the Rainbow. Plus I've got a DECstation 5000/133 that I want to get rid of, and I'd intertain offers on the PDT-11/150, PDP-11/03's, Pro380, and a basically new TU81+. Basically I've been thinking about doing this for nearly a year, as my interests have shifted from the various home systems to PDP-11's and systems running OpenVMS. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From frederik at freddym.org Wed Aug 2 14:41:06 2000 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Computers available in Portland, Oregon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi! > There will be some DEC stuff available at a later date most likely, and I'd > currently not mind getting rid of my collection of DECmate III's, and the > Rainbow. Plus I've got a DECstation 5000/133 that I want to get rid of, > and I'd intertain offers on the PDT-11/150, PDP-11/03's, Pro380, and a > basically new TU81+. Could you please look if there's a NIC in your rainbow? TIA -- Best Regards, Freddy ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FREEBSD, NETBSD, OPENBSD, TRU64, OPENVMS, ULTRIX, BEOS, LINUX From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Aug 2 15:09:58 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Strange device, stuff available FS or Trade In-Reply-To: <200008021811.OAA00942@swordfin.cs.unc.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802130632.00e066f0@208.226.86.10> Well the VAX fairy visited me and dropped off a "pile of junk". Inside the junk were a couple of Unibus expansion bays and in those were a board from MDB systems that asserts it connects a Unibus to a Q-bus. Unfortunately I've only got the Unibus half apparently and there is a matching card that plugs into the Q-bus. Since I'm intending to use the Unibus expansion to extend the bus space of my 11/34a, this board is available for trade. I've also got the manual and I'll include a copy with that. Apparently I also got a set of VAX 11/750 cpu cards and memory. Is this something anyone is interested in? Finally I got some docs on the VAX BI bus but I'm reserving those for Bill if he wants them. --Chuck From bobcaar at cyberdude.com Wed Aug 2 15:07:40 2000 From: bobcaar at cyberdude.com (Devon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Scanning microfiche? (Long) Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000802160740.008031c0@mail.iname.com> This seams like a great idea to me. If you disconected the internal light, you would have no problem doing this. You could even rig up an autoloader for it. T.H.x. Devon >>At 10:12 AM 8/1/00 -0700, Chuck McManis wrote: >>However, if you "think analog" you'll see that you can in fact scan >>these with a cheap scanner but you will need to optically expand them >>to get the gain. Using a standard darkroom enlarger with a 10x >>enlargement to a piece of onion paper on the bed of the scanner would >>work. > >Is that a day dream, or have you actually tried this >enlarger/onionskin >approach? I know using a scanner for 2D-ish 3D objects works great, >but scanning a projected image? When a transparency-adapted scanner >scans, doesn't it turn off the internal light and rely on the >transmissive light? Wouldn't you want to do the same with the >projected image? > >- - John From ss at allegro.com Wed Aug 2 16:11:55 2000 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Pointer to commercial site for microfiche scanners In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39882C2B.31439.5C794AB@localhost> And: http://www.lason.com/fiche.html The Lason company does scanning, and a subsidiary (whose name I missed) makes microfiche scanners. Years ago, Lason was 800-SCAN, and was run by HP 3000 enthusiasts, IIRC. However, when asked about it last year, no one I talked to at Lason knew anything about that :( (Their phone number is stil 1-800-800-SCAN) Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Wed Aug 2 16:53:36 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (FBA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Computers available in Portland, Oregon Message-ID: <004801bffccc$23868690$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> Sorry I ignored the first line of your post. Wow Lots of good stuff.... Unfortunately for those of us not in the area. Anyone in Portland willing to do some brokering (sp) Francois -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 2:16 PM Subject: Computers available in Portland, Oregon >NOTE: If you can't pick up in the Portland, Oregon area don't bother >reading. I really do not have time to deal with shipping I'm afraid. > >OK, the time has come for me to part with a *LARGE* chunk of my collection. >I'm plaining on retaining basically all the DEC stuff and a few other >systems. However, that still leaves a LOT of systems that need to go. >There is a lot of Apple ][ systems of various models, as well as several >Apple ][ clones. A whole pile of Amiga stuff, and lots of other systems. > >A fairly complete list, that doesn't mention how many of each type I have >can be found at http://zane.brouhaha.com/healyzh/MuseumNoFrames.html The >list also doesn't mention all the manuals and other bits and pieces that >I've got for the systems. > >I'm interested in interesting trades, as I'm still looking for additional >DEC stuff (nothing to big though). I'd also be interested in cash. >Basically make an offer. I'm willing to part with just about anything in >the collection, with a few exceptions, IF the price (or trade) is right. > >Unless you can pick it up during the week in the morning, I won't be >available on weekends until the 26th most likely, though I might be able >squeeze something in on the 12th or 13th. > >There will be some DEC stuff available at a later date most likely, and I'd >currently not mind getting rid of my collection of DECmate III's, and the >Rainbow. Plus I've got a DECstation 5000/133 that I want to get rid of, >and I'd intertain offers on the PDT-11/150, PDP-11/03's, Pro380, and a >basically new TU81+. > >Basically I've been thinking about doing this for nearly a year, as my >interests have shifted from the various home systems to PDP-11's and >systems running OpenVMS. > > Zane >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From dcoward at pressstart.com Wed Aug 2 17:06:56 2000 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool Message-ID: <4.1.20000802142051.00c97220@mail.pressstart.com> "Richard Erlacher" said: >What??? They've got 'em again??? I'd best get down there and snag a couple! >Those are among a very few decent items they've had in the 25 years or so >since I first visited RS. It has a wire stripper in the handle, IIRC. >That's one of the handiest tools I've had. It is quite capable of producing >highly serviceable wraps, yet doesn't require you to mess up your circuit. What happened, did everyone throw away their electric wire wraping guns??? I still have mine. :-> With it's power cord it's too big to misplace, what I keep losing is the unwrapping tool. Does this tool (P/N: 276-1570A) have a unwrapping tool at one end?? "Zane H. Healy" said: >(I was dumbfounded to find someone that more or less knew what I was >talking about). I was just in a Radio Shack to pick up two sets of mono phono plugs (earphone,microphone,remote) to build my own Sorcerer dual cassette cable. Now I remembered that on cassette recorders, the earphone and the microphone plug are the same size and the remote is smaller. But I couldn't remember the sizes, so since the saleman was in my face to help, I ask if he could show me a cassette recorder. I wanted to compare the size of the jacks to the plugs. He show me several, they only had earphone jacks. I said don't you have any cassette recorders? It took him a couple of minutes to find one, but it had no remote jack!!! All this time, he kept asking "what is it you want to record", and I would say "computer data". Ten second seconds later he would ask again. In between he would say "Oh, we would not have anything like that!" Again I scolded myself for going to Radio Shack without knowing exactly what I wanted. So if you have a cassette recorder with a remote jack, hang on to it, "it's a good thing". --Doug =================================================== Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com (work) Sr Software Engineer mranalog@home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Visit the new Analog Computer Museum and History Center at http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog =================================================== From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Aug 2 17:27:26 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000802142051.00c97220@mail.pressstart.com> (dcoward@pressstart.com) References: <4.1.20000802142051.00c97220@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <20000802222726.1714.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Doug Coward" wrote: > What happened, did everyone throw away their electric wire wraping guns??? > I still have mine. :-> With it's power cord it's too big to misplace, what > I keep losing is the unwrapping tool. Does this tool (P/N: 276-1570A) have > a unwrapping tool at one end?? No, it has a freely-rotating end piece, like jeweler's screwdrivers. It has no unwrapping feature. However, it's so much more pleasant to use than the typical double-ended hand tool that I use the latter *only* for unwrapping. From richard at idcomm.com Wed Aug 2 17:39:52 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool References: <4.1.20000802142051.00c97220@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <001e01bffcd2$93d7fa40$0500c0a8@winbook> In the case of the tool I'd want, it's the SAME tool, using the SAME end to wrap and unwrap. What's really interesting is that the tool seems to work in either direction, so when you're reworking a machine-wrapped board that has opposite ends of each wire wrapped in opposite directions, you don't need two unwrap tools. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Coward To: Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 4:06 PM Subject: Re: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool > "Richard Erlacher" said: > >What??? They've got 'em again??? I'd best get down there and snag a couple! > >Those are among a very few decent items they've had in the 25 years or so > >since I first visited RS. It has a wire stripper in the handle, IIRC. > >That's one of the handiest tools I've had. It is quite capable of producing > >highly serviceable wraps, yet doesn't require you to mess up your circuit. > > What happened, did everyone throw away their electric wire wraping guns??? > I still have mine. :-> With it's power cord it's too big to misplace, what > I keep losing is the unwrapping tool. Does this tool (P/N: 276-1570A) have > a unwrapping tool at one end?? > > "Zane H. Healy" said: > >(I was dumbfounded to find someone that more or less knew what I was > >talking about). > > I was just in a Radio Shack to pick up two sets of mono phono plugs > (earphone,microphone,remote) to build my own Sorcerer dual cassette > cable. Now I remembered that on cassette recorders, the earphone > and the microphone plug are the same size and the remote is smaller. > But I couldn't remember the sizes, so since the saleman was in my face > to help, I ask if he could show me a cassette recorder. I wanted to > compare the size of the jacks to the plugs. He show me several, they > only had earphone jacks. I said don't you have any cassette recorders? > It took him a couple of minutes to find one, but it had no remote jack!!! > All this time, he kept asking "what is it you want to record", and I would > say "computer data". Ten second seconds later he would ask again. > In between he would say "Oh, we would not have anything like that!" > Again I scolded myself for going to Radio Shack without knowing exactly > what I wanted. > > So if you have a cassette recorder with a remote jack, hang on to it, > "it's a good thing". > --Doug > > > > > > =================================================== > Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com (work) > Sr Software Engineer mranalog@home.com (home) > Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com > Sunnyvale,CA > > Visit the new Analog Computer Museum and History Center > at http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog > =================================================== > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Aug 2 17:50:54 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Strange device, stuff available FS or Trade Message-ID: <20000802225054.26019.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chuck McManis wrote: > Well the VAX fairy visited me and dropped off a "pile of junk". Inside the > junk were a couple of Unibus expansion bays and in those were a board from > MDB systems that asserts it connects a Unibus to a Q-bus. Unfortunately > I've only got the Unibus half apparently and there is a matching card that > plugs into the Q-bus. Univerter/Qniverter? Depending on what the docs say, would the Q-bus end be similar to what DEC used to connect BA-11N or BA-23 boxes together? It does kinda matter which way you are going (i.e., Unibus or Q-bus CPU)... mostly because the Unibus is 18-bit and the Q-bus is 18 or 22 bit (or 16 ;-) with completely different ideas about how to map space (which matters at the driver level, not the hardware level). We looked into such products at work, but we decided that the extra effort on the driver did not pay for saving a development box. > Apparently I also got a set of VAX 11/750 cpu cards and memory. Is this > something anyone is interested in? To rescue from oblivion, yes. To put to immediate use, no. I have two 11/750s and wouldn't mind spares, but space/cash is too tight for such an optional set of boards. I haven't even fired one up since I moved it to the Quonset hut. It sits, temporarily unloved, until I can wire a 30A Hubble receptacle for it. > Finally I got some docs on the VAX BI bus but I'm reserving those for Bill > if he wants them. If not, please let me know. I have an 8300. Thanks, -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Aug 2 18:08:14 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Another freebie (ie for postage) RX50 control for Pro3x0? In-Reply-To: <39882C2B.31439.5C794AB@localhost> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802160340.00c711f0@208.226.86.10> I've got a board the plugs into a Pro350/Pro380 that the box says is an RX50 controller. It has the following number on the edge handle: 002004 --Chuck From richard at idcomm.com Wed Aug 2 18:01:17 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool References: <4.1.20000802142051.00c97220@mail.pressstart.com> <20000802222726.1714.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <002801bffcd5$91da4e20$0500c0a8@winbook> Try unwrapping with it. Perhaps you'll be surprised! Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Smith To: Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 4:27 PM Subject: Re: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool > "Doug Coward" wrote: > > What happened, did everyone throw away their electric wire wraping guns??? > > I still have mine. :-> With it's power cord it's too big to misplace, what > > I keep losing is the unwrapping tool. Does this tool (P/N: 276-1570A) have > > a unwrapping tool at one end?? > > No, it has a freely-rotating end piece, like jeweler's screwdrivers. It > has no unwrapping feature. However, it's so much more pleasant to use > than the typical double-ended hand tool that I use the latter *only* for > unwrapping. > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Aug 2 18:19:50 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Strange device, stuff available FS or Trade In-Reply-To: <20000802225054.26019.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802161001.00c73b30@208.226.86.10> At 03:50 PM 8/2/00 -0700, Ethan wrote: >It does kinda matter which way you are going (i.e., Unibus or Q-bus CPU)... >mostly because the Unibus is 18-bit and the Q-bus is 18 or 22 bit (or 16 ;-) >with completely different ideas about how to map space (which matters at >the driver level, not the hardware level). This apparently can go both ways. There is configuration information on mapping the Q-bus into the Unibus address space for Unibus CPUs and details on how to run it the other way for Q-bus CPUs to access Unibus peripherals. But, like I mentioned I can't seem to find the Q-bus side in the pile yet. Fortunately I got the docs so if one shows up I would recognize it! > It [11/750] sits, temporarily unloved, until I can wire a 30A > Hubble receptacle for it. A VAX is a terrible thing to waste :-) Buried in the bottom of a 19" rack with literally leaves on top and spiderwebs inside was a VLC with 16MB of memory and an RZ23L inside. I cleaned it up, powered it up, and booted the disk. VMS 6.0 booted happy as a clam! These things are becoming my favorite little VAX, they are small, seem to be indestructible, support cheap SCSI disks and are much faster than a MicroVAX 2000 or a MVII. >If not, please let me know. I have an 8300. Will do. --Chuck From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Aug 3 00:02:27 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000802142051.00c97220@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: Hello Doug On 02-Aug-00, you wrote: > I was just in a Radio Shack to pick up two sets of mono phono plugs > (earphone,microphone,remote) to build my own Sorcerer dual cassette > cable. Now I remembered that on cassette recorders, the earphone > and the microphone plug are the same size and the remote is smaller. > But I couldn't remember the sizes, so since the saleman was in my face > to help, I ask if he could show me a cassette recorder. I wanted to > compare the size of the jacks to the plugs. He show me several, they > only had earphone jacks. I said don't you have any cassette recorders? > It took him a couple of minutes to find one, but it had no remote jack!!! > All this time, he kept asking "what is it you want to record", and I would > say "computer data". Ten second seconds later he would ask again. > In between he would say "Oh, we would not have anything like that!" > Again I scolded myself for going to Radio Shack without knowing exactly > what I wanted. > > So if you have a cassette recorder with a remote jack, hang on to it, > "it's a good thing". > --Doug Typical Radio Shack salesman, overworked at minimum wage and minimum intellegence about electronics. I was in a Radio Shack twice recent'y, and they can't even tell you prices of some of the stuff on the shelves. Here in St. Joseph we call them the trash shack or the outhouse, because they are usually out of what you want. Regards -- Gary Hildebrand ghldbrd@ccp.com From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Aug 2 18:47:32 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: ID an emulex Unibus board anyone? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802161001.00c73b30@208.226.86.10> References: <20000802225054.26019.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802164302.00d9ac70@208.226.86.10> Ok, the "fibre channel company" disavows any knowledge of having ever produced cards for Unibus :-) I've got three boards that are made by Emulex, go in the Unibus and are marked CS2110203/H2B. There are two 50 pin connectors on the top (channel 0-7, 8-15), an LED labelled "fault", and two connectors one 26 pin and one probably 20 pin. I'm guessing they are some sort of 16 port communication controllers. --Chuck From vaxman at uswest.net Wed Aug 2 18:56:46 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Strange device, stuff available FS or Trade In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802130632.00e066f0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: Hi Chuck, I'm interested in the '750 cards and memory... Let me know what you want for them... clint On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > Apparently I also got a set of VAX 11/750 cpu cards and memory. Is this > something anyone is interested in? > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 2 19:18:33 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: ID an emulex Unibus board anyone? Message-ID: Chuck, Well I tried emailing you direct, and it bounced sooo... anyways, the CS21 is, according to the Spring 1988 Emulex Products Catalog, a multiplexer which comes in three flavors. Yours is the /H, which would make it a DH11 equivalent. It is indeed a 16 line, asynchronous mux, 19.2Kbps max speed, full duplex transmission, partial modem control, 50,000cps throughput, and receive fifo of 64-256Kw per 16 lines. Hope that helps some... Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Aug 2 20:09:01 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: ID an emulex Unibus board anyone? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802164302.00d9ac70@208.226.86.10> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802161001.00c73b30@208.226.86.10> <20000802225054.26019.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000802180901.009848f0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 16:47 02-08-2000 -0700, Chuck wrote: >Ok, the "fibre channel company" disavows any knowledge of having ever >produced cards for Unibus :-) I've got three boards that are made by >Emulex, go in the Unibus and are marked CS2110203/H2B. There are two 50 pin >connectors on the top (channel 0-7, 8-15), an LED labelled "fault", and two Exactly right on your guess that they're comm controllers. The kicker is that, in order to function properly, I believe they require the specific Emulex distribution panel. I could be wrong about that. I also (fuzzily) recall that the CS21 may in fact have RS232 outputs directly on those 50-pin headers. Are there a bunch of RS232 line driver/receiver chips right below said headers? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From elvey at hal.com Wed Aug 2 20:19:05 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool In-Reply-To: <002801bffcd5$91da4e20$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <200008030119.SAA23491@civic.hal.com> Hi Mine doesn't work as an unwrapper like the little blue ones do. I prefer the wire stripper in the blue ones over the jeweler's screwdriver type stripper. The best stripper I've used was one that looks a little like a pair of pliers with while plactic boxes on the end. Dwight "Richard Erlacher" wrote: > Try unwrapping with it. Perhaps you'll be surprised! > > Dick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Eric Smith > To: > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 4:27 PM > Subject: Re: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool > > > > "Doug Coward" wrote: > > > What happened, did everyone throw away their electric wire wraping > guns??? > > > I still have mine. :-> With it's power cord it's too big to misplace, > what > > > I keep losing is the unwrapping tool. Does this tool (P/N: 276-1570A) > have > > > a unwrapping tool at one end?? > > > > No, it has a freely-rotating end piece, like jeweler's screwdrivers. It > > has no unwrapping feature. However, it's so much more pleasant to use > > than the typical double-ended hand tool that I use the latter *only* for > > unwrapping. > > > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Aug 2 20:27:09 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: ID an emulex Unibus board anyone? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000802180901.009848f0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802164302.00d9ac70@208.226.86.10> <4.3.2.7.2.20000802161001.00c73b30@208.226.86.10> <20000802225054.26019.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802182452.00bd5b50@208.226.86.10> >Bruce Lane wrote: > Exactly right on your guess that they're comm controllers. The > kicker is >that, in order to function properly, I believe they require the specific >Emulex distribution panel. Well I just checked and I've got a distribution panel as well with a bunch of DE9 connectors (look like the PC serial port) with the Emulex name on it and apparently a cable guide. Wow, if course its a Unibus board rather than a q-bus board and the only Unibus systems I have are a couple of PDP-11's. anyone need this bad boy to put 16 serial ports on an 11/7xx series VAX ? Or maybe an 11/70? --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Aug 2 21:09:51 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Final tally from the VAX fairy Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802183323.00c5d100@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Ok, so after a day of intermittantly going out to the pile and moving it indoors I've got the final VAX fairy tally: 2 - BA123 Chassis Chassis 1 has a VAXStation II badge a KA630, 8MB (+1) of RAM the DEQNA RQDX3, and TQK50. Peripherals were two RD53's and a "hole" where the TK50 would have been. There are also four "Avalon" boards which are quad width, have a Mot 88K processor on them, something like a 4MB daughter card, one edge connector (26 pin) and a couple of LEDs. No clue what these do. Chassis 2 has that I've been stored in the outside air about it. It had the tighted MV2 system I've seen, KA630, MS630-BA, and a dual width MS630-AA (4MB total) and an RQDX3 all in the first three slots. No ethernet, nothing else. One RD53 and one hole where the TK50 would go. (hope they didn't think they were DLT drives :-) 2 - BA23 chassis Chassis 1 was badged MicroVAX III and yielded a KA655 + two third party memory boards, both with socketed ram chips, one only half populated. Weird. This system also had an Emulex QD32 SMD controller for Q-bus, and an Emulex Pertec tape controller. Chassis 2 (separate rack) was badged MVII and had a KA630 + 8MB, a DEQNA, and an RQDX3. Then on the bottom it had an Emulex UC07 scsi controller, but the board literally had a spiders nest on it. I'm going to clean it up and see if it works. that would be a great deal if it did. The MicroVAX 3 appeared to be complete but the rack it was in had clearly fallen on its side at some point (perhaps during transport or in the parking lot) the damaage actually looked pretty old, but it had to be noisy because the BA23 was _bent_. Now I've done a lot of things to BA23's since I started playing with them and I can tell you it takes a hell of a whack to bend one. The top cards were fine but the bottom card (a DHV11) was bowed from the stresses placed on it. So much for that chassis! Also in this rack was a pair of Fujitsu SMD drives that were on a dual disk sled. Unfortunately there heads were not locked and they had been forcibly bounced out of the rack slides. I'm not expecting them to have survived :-) A couple of Unibus extender boxes (BA11-K) one with switching power supply (about 25 lbs) one with linear supply (about 85 lbs!) The latter however matches the decor on my 11/34a which has no backplane space left so to that rack it goes. One had an M9313 terminator in it. (guess I can replace my 9302 in the 11/34 now) A couple of Sigma Q-bus extenders (labels inside say "do not put a CPU in this rack", I wonder why.) The one in the damaged rack was unsalvagable. These both had the sigma qbus extender pairs. Then there was one rack with a beautiful Kennedy 9400 Pertec tape drive. I'm dying to see if this thing works, it actually looks like it was indoors for most of its life. Tony or anyone else, is there a way to power this up without connecting it up and seeing if it can load a tape? I've got an emulex controller for it but the cables were shredded and so they are of no use to me. I'm wondering if I can plug it in and power it up to see if it works. Then a few misc Unibus boards, docs for various things, the rattiest MicroVAX 2000 I have ever seen, all rusted at the connectors. (Looks like it could have literally been used as a boat anchor!) It was hiding yet another RD53 inside. I've also got a Emulex quad width board that looks like an SMD controller, part number is: QD3510206. I've got no use for it, I'm not crazy enough to try to run every type of disk technology and SMD is right out. Anyway, it was a remarkable thing to find literally on ones doorstep. Now to see how many of the systems can be salvaged, get parts to people who need them and who knows. I'm hoping to have a fully restored MVII in a BA123 available at VCF for sale. Sort of a complete system for the new collector who doesn't have furniture yet :-) --Chuck From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Aug 2 21:43:30 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Strange device, stuff available FS or Trade References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802130632.00e066f0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <005f01bffcf4$9ce2eb00$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck McManis" To: Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 5:39 AM Subject: Strange device, stuff available FS or Trade > Finally I got some docs on the VAX BI bus but I'm reserving those for Bill > if he wants them. The guys in NetBSD Port Vax and Linux Port Vax might be interested in copies if that's possible. Depends what it is of course... Just a thought..... Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From richard at idcomm.com Wed Aug 2 21:53:41 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool References: <200008030119.SAA23491@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <001c01bffcf6$25344480$0500c0a8@winbook> Do you suppose they've changed the way they make this type of tool? I've had mine for about 15 years, and they've always worked fine for both wrapping and unwrapping. Those blue (or red) anodized hex-shaped ones are identical to the ones made by OK Tool, which work OK too, but given the choice, I'd use the RS (silver) with the swivel cap like a jeweler's screwdriver every time. I had three of them right up to the time my elder son and his buddy used two of them to wire up blinkenlights for their gloves. (whatever that was for) Since then I've had only one. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Dwight Elvey To: Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 7:19 PM Subject: Re[2]: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool > Hi > Mine doesn't work as an unwrapper like the little blue ones > do. I prefer the wire stripper in the blue ones over the > jeweler's screwdriver type stripper. The best stripper > I've used was one that looks a little like a pair of pliers > with while plactic boxes on the end. > Dwight > > > "Richard Erlacher" wrote: > > Try unwrapping with it. Perhaps you'll be surprised! > > > > Dick > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Eric Smith > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, August 02, 2000 4:27 PM > > Subject: Re: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool > > > > > > > "Doug Coward" wrote: > > > > What happened, did everyone throw away their electric wire wraping > > guns??? > > > > I still have mine. :-> With it's power cord it's too big to misplace, > > what > > > > I keep losing is the unwrapping tool. Does this tool (P/N: 276-1570A) > > have > > > > a unwrapping tool at one end?? > > > > > > No, it has a freely-rotating end piece, like jeweler's screwdrivers. It > > > has no unwrapping feature. However, it's so much more pleasant to use > > > than the typical double-ended hand tool that I use the latter *only* for > > > unwrapping. > > > > > > > > From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Aug 2 22:40:46 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Scanning microfiche? (Long) References: Message-ID: <00036de960a24f3c_mailit@calico.litterbox.com> >Would this make it ON-Topic to offer up a 4 x 5 Beseler for sale cheap? >Dichroic head? How about some stabilization processors? I think that I >already have a taker for my movie/microfilm (not fiche) processing >equipment. >-- >Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com >XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com >PO Box 1236 (510) 644-9366 >Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 >On Wed, 2 Aug 2000, John Foust wrote: >> At 10:12 AM 8/1/00 -0700, Chuck McManis wrote: >> >However, if you "think analog" you'll see that you can in fact scan these >with a cheap scanner but you will need to optically expand them to get the >gain. Using a standard darkroom enlarger with a 10x enlargement to a piece of >onion paper on the bed of the scanner would work. >> >> Is that a day dream, or have you actually tried this enlarger/onionskin >> approach? I know using a scanner for 2D-ish 3D objects works great, >> but scanning a projected image? When a transparency-adapted scanner >> scans, doesn't it turn off the internal light and rely on the >> transmissive light? Wouldn't you want to do the same with the >> projected image? Hmm. Now I understand what the settings on my cheap a** Umax scanner for "transmissive" vs "Reflective" mean. Is this a normal thing for scanners that you can tell them to just turn off the light? >> - John > -- -Jim Strickland jim@calico.litterbox.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS 5.0.1 Powered! This message sent with BeatWare MailIt 2.0.4 ---------------------------------------------------------------- From djg at drs-esg.com Wed Aug 2 23:07:18 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 & RK05 Questions Message-ID: <200008030407.AAA20495@drs-esg.com> For the cleaning of dirty packs I use a lazy susan (rotating table) and put the pack on it. This allows me to rotate it and view a various angles to look for dust and other defects. If you put a light at the correct angle dust will show up much better. I use the alcohol to clean disks like others have said and also use the canned "compressed air" dust off to blow the dust off. Make sure you squirt the first bit away from the disk in case some of the liquid comes out. I also use a photo/lens brush to remove the stubborn dust. Depending on house dust level you may have trouble getting it all off. Running a air cleaner or filtered fan in a closed room can cut the airborne dust down. If the packs may of been dropped at some time you need to watch out for them being bent. Most lazy susan will have a lot of play so may not allow you to see. If you have the top of the drive off and watch the shadows on the pack from the head positioner assembly they will move if the pack is bent. Just blip the run switch for a short time to get a slow rotation or rotate by hand. You should also check that the battery pack is still good. It is a rechargable nicad and will go bad after a while. Measure with a load after charging if needed. This is used to retract the heads if power is lost. It is located on the left side near the back. I have various maintenance information for the RK05 available at http://www.pdp8.net/query_docs/query.shtml RK05 docs: http://www.pdp8.net/pdp8cgi/query_docs/query.pl?Search=rk05&stype=Partial+Word&submit=Submit+Query&fields=id%2Ctitle%2Cdate&debug=0&table=pdp8docs&orderby=sort%2Ctitle This search/convert to PDF is new so let me know if you have problems. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights From schoedel at kw.igs.net Thu Aug 3 00:25:27 2000 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: New finds: DEC/DSD/MDB Message-ID: Got an 11/23 in a third-party enclosure ("Transduction 11/BLUE15") along with a DSD dual floppy drive. Haven't powered it on yet; the drive enclosure's fan has seized, and the main enclosure has a key switch.... As I found it, the arrangement of cards has gaps, unless the backplane is *really* weird. The backplane itself is MDB model MLSI 40328 -- anyone know the layout? Any reason I couldn't just move this into a BA23? The only non-obvious card in the system is an MDB DR11B... is this a parallel interface? -- Kevin Schoedel schoedel@kw.igs.net From schoedel at kw.igs.net Thu Aug 3 00:25:44 2000 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: New finds: HP9825 etc. Message-ID: Found an HP85 and HP9825, both in working order, except presumably for the tape drives. The latter is an HP9285A with the full-travel keyboard, and a full set of ROMs: string/adv. programming; 9872A plotter / general i/o; matrix; and 9885 disk. No interfaces though; I went back to the du^H^Hstore to look, but they were nowhere to be found. Question: Are the interfaces the same as those used on the HP9845? Elsewhere, (perhaps slightly off-topic), bought a Litton/Monroe 1655 programmable desktop calculator (with nixie-tube display). Cracked case and a couple of missing keys; haven't powered it on yet. Also got a 6800 evaluation board, MEK6800D2, with hex keypad & LED display. -- Kevin Schoedel schoedel@kw.igs.net From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Aug 3 05:10:35 2000 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: Final tally from the VAX fairy Message-ID: <000803061035.20200416@trailing-edge.com> * There are also four "Avalon" boards * which are quad width, have a Mot 88K * processor on them, something like a * 4MB daughter card, one edge connector * (26 pin) and a couple of LEDs. No clue * what these do. Avalon made Q-bus and Unibus co-processors for special applications. As of a couple of years ago, you could get Unibus Alpha CPU boards from them, if your wallet was thick enough :-). * A couple of Sigma Q-bus extenders (labels inside say "do not put a CPU in * this rack" Because they're serpentine ABAB all the way through. If you put a CPU board with PMI stuff on its CD slots, those PMI signals get mixed with the Q-bus signals and things don't work. At worst, the magic smoke comes out. [Kennedy 9400] *for most of its life. Tony or anyone else, is there a way to power this up *without connecting it up and seeing if it can load a tape? Yeah, turn it on, put in a tape, hit load! *I've also got a Emulex quad width board that looks like an SMD controller, *part number is: QD3510206. Yeah, that's one of their later SMD controllers. Pretty smart - IIRC it actually has a 68020 on-board! Tim. From jate at uwasa.fi Thu Aug 3 06:18:18 2000 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: HP 35401 protocol extensions ? In-Reply-To: <200008021513.IAA97974@daemonweed.reanimators.org>; from fmc@reanimators.org on Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 08:13:07AM -0700 References: <20000802100808.A470@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> <200008021513.IAA97974@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20000803141817.A686@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> On Wed, Aug 02, 2000 at 08:13:07AM -0700, Frank McConnell wrote: > Hmm, I wonder if that's what the CS/80 "Set Volume" command is for. > The command is 0x40, with the volume number (0-7) or'd into the > three least significant bits. Hmm.. could be, I'll have to try it in the future. Actually I found the same command from ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD-current/src/sys/arch/hp300/dev/ctreg.c as #define C_SVOL(x) (0x40 | x) The commands aren't commented at all in the code but I'll try something. I'd sure love to get the CS/80 manuals:) > > You know with a hook like that I can't resist, right? I'm (or was, > anyway, TWG is pretty much gone now) the last maintainer of WIN/TCP > for the HP9000 series 500. > > How does the changer work from HP-UX on the 550? Can it be told to > pick a specific cartridge, or does it just step through cartridges as > each is unloaded? We didn't have a changer; well, we did, but it was > either me or the guy who did the backups. > Hey! What a lucky coincidence! I'm having some problems with (presumably) the telnet negotiation between the Wollongong client and NetBSD server. They sort of get stuck in an infinite loop. But that's another story:) It's a nice machine (I have two) and you have to love the fans on power-on and the 32 serial ports. Finding *any* documentation is hmm.. *challenging*. I don't know how the changer works, but here's a snippet from autobkup.1m Autobkup is an enhanced version of backup(1M) and supports tape autochangers such as the 35401. Autobkup executes a background process /etc/bkserver which intercepts and responds to tcio's prompts for a new special file name and allows the next tape in the magazine to be loaded automatically by the tape autochanger. There's also a switch behind the 35401 and the labels were something akin to selective and continuous (I really don't remember). Guess I have some experimenting to do:) -- Jarkko Teppo jate@uwasa.fi From djg at drs-esg.com Thu Aug 3 06:50:52 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 & RK05 Questions Message-ID: <200008031150.HAA26024@drs-esg.com> One more thing I thought of (and since I get the digest probably has been said) When I first spin up the pack I run a program which quickly seeks seeks through each track and then repeats. This hopefully does a couple of things, if a defect/dust is still on the platter it won't sit on that one spot long, and it lets you quickly know how the pack it while you are standing next to the drive to hit the load switch if it starts sounding too bad. Even with the best cleaning effort I sometimes have some faint pings from certain areas of the disk but after a couple of passes they frequently go away. I assume the head manages to knock the contaminate away. If it doesn't clear I either give up on the pack or take it apart again using where the head positioner was to figure out where to look more. I was working with a bunch of packs which were not stored in bags so they were pretty dirty to start with. I can't tell you how to figure out how to tell when a ping is too loud, but I would be conservative, especially if you got plenty of packs. Start with one that doesn't have anything valuable on it, I got better with practice. After unmounting a pack that made noise I always inspect the heads and then clean them anyway. I found oxide on them once with a pack that sounded enough different I didn't let it finish its pass. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Aug 3 08:08:03 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: New finds: HP9825 etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000803080803.39a70ef4@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 01:25 AM 8/3/00 -0400, you wrote: >Found an HP85 and HP9825, both in working order, except presumably for >the tape drives. The latter is an HP9285A with the full-travel keyboard, >and a full set of ROMs: string/adv. programming; 9872A plotter / general >i/o; matrix; and 9885 disk. No interfaces though; I went back to the >du^H^Hstore to look, but they were nowhere to be found. Question: Are the >interfaces the same as those used on the HP9845? Yes, the interfaces are the same but the ROMs are very different. Do you have a 9845? You can find some descriptions and pictures of the interfaces at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/hp980xx.htm" and "chttp://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/9800.htm". Does the 9825 have the pull-out system ROM in the side or only a slotted cover? If it has the ROM then it's a 9825 A, if it has the slotted cover then it's a B model. > >Elsewhere, (perhaps slightly off-topic), bought a Litton/Monroe 1655 >programmable desktop calculator (with nixie-tube display). Cracked case >and a couple of missing keys; haven't powered it on yet. > >Also got a 6800 evaluation board, MEK6800D2, with hex keypad & LED display. That's cool. The 6800 evaluation boards are rare. That module is described in Motorola's MicroProcesor Applications Manual for the 6800. I HIGHLY recommend that book if you're interested in the 6800s. Joe > >-- >Kevin Schoedel >schoedel@kw.igs.net > From nabil at SpiritOne.com Thu Aug 3 08:02:49 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:41 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 & RK05 Questions In-Reply-To: <200008031150.HAA26024@drs-esg.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, David Gesswein wrote: > One more thing I thought of (and since I get the digest probably has > been said) > > When I first spin up the pack I run a program which quickly seeks seeks > through each track and then repeats. This hopefully does a couple of things, > if a defect/dust is still on the platter it won't sit on that one spot long, > and it lets you quickly know how the pack it while you are standing next > to the drive to hit the load switch if it starts sounding too bad. I'd routinely (on other drives, not specifically an RK05) kill the servo and manually move the head actuator across the disk to do the same thing. -- Aaron Nabil From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Aug 3 09:15:44 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:42 2005 Subject: FW: FREE Working Vax 4000-200 In-Reply-To: <9ekhos0urqlvn47uhn6obaqvq8j9bui2bi@4ax.com> Message-ID: Found on Usenet: Anyone up for a rescue in the Pasadena area? Why don't these things ever happen in WA? :-( -=-=- -=-=- In article <9ekhos0urqlvn47uhn6obaqvq8j9bui2bi@4ax.com>, you say... > Path: news.uswest.net!news-out.uswest.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news4.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail > From: Charles Shartsis > Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro,comp.sys.dec > Subject: FREE Working Vax 4000-200 > Organization: Logicon > Message-ID: <9ekhos0urqlvn47uhn6obaqvq8j9bui2bi@4ax.com> > X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.532 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Lines: 11 > NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 21:57:32 CDT > X-Trace: sv2-SgZHCPRPJjcUxRO9XKJE7j/u/LGP3MdtuQCXJujyl4aejFfxXf+YmgV0yGoBQ8d30UV0Umn6lFZjAqf!kF+vR4j5iWNq > X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com > X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers > X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly > Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 20:05:09 -0700 > Xref: news-out.uswest.net comp.sys.dec.micro:1210 comp.sys.dec:11527 > > Free Vax 4000-200 with 3 disks, 32MB memory, cabinet-type enclosure. > It boots, it runs VMS. What more do you want? Also tape drive (don't > know if this works) and other stuff. This was abandoned by a bank. > We took it. Now we don't want it. The catch: it weighs around 200 > pounds. You pick it up and its yours. Please don't ask me to pack it > and ship it. I want to do as little work as possible here. We are in > Pasadena, CA. Respond by E-Mail or call me: > > Charles Shartsis > H 310-379-8630 > W 626-351-0089 x13 > > -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner/Head Honcho, Blue Feather Technologies (http://www.bluefeathertech.com) kyrrin [a-t] bluefeathertech {d=o=t} com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma) From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Aug 3 09:35:34 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:42 2005 Subject: New finds: DEC/DSD/MDB References: Message-ID: <39898336.2AD76671@idirect.com> >Kevin Schoedel wrote: > Got an 11/23 in a third-party enclosure ("Transduction 11/BLUE15") along > with a DSD dual floppy drive. Haven't powered it on yet; the drive > enclosure's fan has seized, and the main enclosure has a key switch.... Jerome Fine replies: Transduction designed and produced the BLUE box a few years before DEC came out with the BA23/BA123 boxes. They were much better (in my humble opinion) than the BA11 boxes, but not as good or convenient than the BA23 boxes. But they were also limited in that they were all rack mount. If the 11/23 is a dual board, you may have a bit of a problem in the BA23 since the BLUE box was designed with boot boards that might not be compatible with the BA23. > As I found it, the arrangement of cards has gaps, unless the backplane is > *really* weird. The backplane itself is MDB model MLSI 40328 -- anyone > know the layout? If I remember, Transduction used a hex back plane modified to be a Qbus interface with a serpentine use of the "extra" slots. But I can't remember the order. > Any reason I couldn't just move this into a BA23? By the time I acquired a BLUE box, I also had a BA23 box and found it to be so much more convenient that I discarded the BLUE box. Transduction is (STILL - but no longer making DEC compatible equipment) in Toronto. Around 1985 (when DEC began the big push to get rid of smaller VARs), Transduction began the switch to the PC world. They are still active with industrial systems. Around 1988 they held an auction at which I picked up a number of RD52 drives. They also had a package of TK25 tapes, but I bowed out at about $5 per tape. They could attract only 2 people to the auction - it was rather fun as a result. > The only non-obvious card in the system is an MDB DR11B... is this a > parallel interface? Probably. MDB boards were usually named by their DEC counterpart. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Aug 3 09:35:31 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:42 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Scanning microfiche? (Long) In-Reply-To: <00036de960a24f3c_mailit@calico.litterbox.com> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000803093126.021fd100@pc> At 09:40 PM 8/2/00 -0600, Jim Strickland wrote: >Hmm. Now I understand what the settings on my cheap a** Umax scanner for >"transmissive" vs "Reflective" mean. Is this a normal thing for scanners >that you can tell them to just turn off the light? All evidence points to the light is under software control. Indeed, I believe UMax's software for Windows for some of its less expensive scanners includes a desktop applet that lets you turn the light on and off manually. Some people claim that their scanner will scan transparencies even though the film isn't back-lit. I wonder what would happen if you back-lit with an ordinary flourescent with a diffuser. I'd need to dig to find some microfiche. - John From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Aug 3 12:15:12 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:42 2005 Subject: ID an emulex Unibus board anyone? Message-ID: <20000803171512.22489.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bruce Lane wrote: > At 16:47 02-08-2000 -0700, Chuck wrote: > I've got three boards that are made by > >Emulex, go in the Unibus and are marked CS2110203/H2B. There are two 50 pin > >connectors on the top (channel 0-7, 8-15), an LED labelled "fault", and two > > > > Exactly right on your guess that they're comm controllers. The kicker is > that, in order to function properly, I believe they require the specific > Emulex distribution panel. We used CS21s at Software Results. I have a quantity of them with random numbers of busted ports. Depending on the PROMs installed in it, the emulate DH-11s or DZ-11s (TTA0, TTB0, etc., or TXA0, TXB0, etc.) It is possible that they have reused DEC's pinout for the DZ-11 patch panel, but I do not know this for sure. We never used their patch panels. One of our gurus divined the wiring scheme, made a telco-50 pin swabber and plugged them into Nevada Western RJ21 - octal RJ11 patch panels and boxes. We had patch panels grouped by CPU and room. We would connect individual lines with RJ11 patch cables. At the office end, there was a block of 8 RJ11 jacks that the user would connect to VT100s at the desktop through a Nevada Western dongle (like the ones that Rat-Shack currently sells). I wired up one of these at my house - I have an RJ21 cable going from the uVAXII and the 8300 in the basement to a 8-way block in the computer room on the second floor. It's nice to have the option of hooking to various machines without going downstairs to do it (we also had RJ11 switchboxes for "power users" ;-) Now... back to your dilemma... You will need a way to get the signals from the Berg-50s on the CS21 to some sort of breakout board or cable. If all I had was a board and a lot of time, I'd trace out one or two of the 2661 serial chips to the line drivers to establish where TxD and RxD (and ground!) were on the Berg-50, then take a SCSI ribbon cable out to a prototype board and wire up another 50-pin connector to a bunch of 2x5 .1" pin blocks set up with the same configuration as modern PC serial ports (the cables are easy to get and cheap). With that made, plug in DB9 or DB25 PC cables and off you go. I will attempt to find a CS21 manual, but I can't do it until the end of August. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Aug 3 12:49:40 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:42 2005 Subject: ID an emulex Unibus board anyone? Message-ID: One more note, this from the Emulex marketing sheet on the CS21: "Controller Interface: 2 50-conductor flat cables, compatible with DEC's H317 distribution panel." The standard Emulex distrib. panel for it is a CP22, btw.. damn I pitched one of these a few months ago... ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From THETechnoid at home.com Thu Aug 3 12:51:44 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Kewl new find-IPL In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20000803175006.NKGS3339.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@ci223229-a> The IPL button is likely analogous to the RESET button on many machines. IPL stands for 'initial program load'. At least they gave you some clues. Like most CP/M machines, it appears your's has little ROM onboard and depends on IPL code in rom to get useful software into memory. This means you will have to obtain a copy of CP/M that will IPL on this machine or modify a generic version of CP/M to run on it. I have some good CP/M documentation on how to do this but you will have to provide the memory locations and other machine-specific info in order to make it work. If I can help, please e-mail me! In , on 08/03/00 at 01:51 PM, Sellam Ismail said: >I came across a deliciously mysterious computer today in a local thrift >store. >I took the following photos of it in various states of undress: >http://www.siconic.com/crap/BMC-1.jpg >http://www.siconic.com/crap/BMC-2.jpg >http://www.siconic.com/crap/BMC-3.jpg >http://www.siconic.com/crap/BMC-4.jpg >http://www.siconic.com/crap/BMC-5.jpg >http://www.siconic.com/crap/BMC-6.jpg >It's a machine made by OKI of Japan (the same company apparently that >made the Okidata printer line). It's called the Small Computer Model 10 >(as indicated by the photo of the nameplate). At first I thought it was >just some dumb terminal until I started looking closer at it and >discovered it was indeed a computer. >Upon examining the innards I found that it has a Z80 processor and seems >to be circa 1982. I couldn't tell how much RAM it had because the chips >are all funky Japanese types. My guess would be 32K-64K. >As one can see from the photos, it incorporates a dot matrix printer in >the main unit. If you've got one to compare to, the machine is almost >exactly the same dimensions as a Sol-20 (and just as heavy). It has an >expansion bus inside, and two cards are plugged in: a floppy drive >controller (marked 5-FDD) and some sort of CRT interface (marked C-CRT, >probably color CRT). >The right-hand side has three DIN connectors, labelled L-PEN (lightpen), >TV (probably an RF connector), A-CMT (?). Finally, there is a DB-25 >RS-232C connector. >The left-hand side features the power switch and two momentary buttons, >one marked IPL and the other NMI. >I was hoping when I plugged the machine in I would get output to the >printer but no go. I tried blindly typing some BASIC commands like >LPRINT but that had no effect. When it first turns on, there is a 3 >second beep that comes out of the speaker. If I hit the IPL button it >seems to reset the machine: there's a moment of about 3 seconds after >pushing the button where nothing happens but then the speaker beeps for >about 3 seconds again. >I tried pressing various keys (like HARD COPY) but could not get any >action out of the printer. I imagine it wants to be connected to a CRT. >I didn't know at the time to look for a CRT so I'll probably go back >tomorrow to check around. I'm also going to check for any floppy drives >that might go with it. >I'd like to try to hook it up to a TV but I don't know what pins I should >use. I have a working scope but it's huge, old and is at my warehouse. >What would be a good way to try to determine which pins carry the signal? >Any help or info would be appreciated. >Sellam International Man of Intrigue and >Danger >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From djg at drs-esg.com Thu Aug 3 13:08:43 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 & RK05 Questions Message-ID: <200008031808.OAA31960@drs-esg.com> > On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, David Gesswein wrote: > > When I first spin up the pack I run a program which quickly seeks seeks > > through each track and then repeats. > >... > > Aaron Nabil: > I'd routinely (on other drives, not specifically an RK05) kill the servo > and manually move the head actuator across the disk to do the same thing. > Watch out on the RK05, the power fail battery seems to still unload the heads on power fail even if that switch is off. If your finger is in the way the head positioner will win. Never put your finger/tools where unexpeced motion can get it (insert all the other obvious warning here). Also if you flip the switch back on when the heads are loaded the servo can get confused and go full steam ahead to the end of travel. This didn't seem to harm anything but did make me jump. A quick snap of the switch may help prevent this but I didn't try to verify. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Aug 3 13:59:12 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: More on computers avail in Portland, Oregon Message-ID: <200008031859.LAA23800@shell1.aracnet.com> Just a real quick FYI for everyone that has sent me a message about the computers I'm wanting to get rid of. A combo of real life and work has just kicked in with a vengence, I don't think I'm going to have time to go through and look at the messages until next week sometime. Basically just wanted people to know that I'm not ignoring them. But if it wasn't for remote access to my mail, I wouldn't even be seeing them till next week... Zane From mranalog at home.com Thu Aug 3 13:53:59 2000 From: mranalog at home.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Analog computer available in Tuebingen,Germany Message-ID: <3989BFC7.17F0C848@home.com> I received this email this morning. ============ Begin Paste ============ "Dear Sir, I will soon take a new position at the University of T"ubingen, Germany. The department has still an analog computer build by "Electronic Associates Inc.", Type EAI 2000 which was purchased in the mid seventies and seems to be ready to work. The original handbooks are also available. I have no further use for this device and therefore I am trying to find a museum or a collector who is interested in this machine. Any suggestions would be welcome." =========== End Paste =============== This computer is located at the Max-Planck-Institutes in Tuebingen, about 40 km from Stuttgart. I don't have any information about this model, so I have no idea how large this computer may be. I'm leaving it up to intereted parties to check this out. If someone in Germany is interested in this computer or is willing to check it out and arrange shipping for someone else, please contact me. I'll pass your name along and send you the email address. I'm hoping to just pass one name along, hopefully someone local. But if you are interested but not local, email me anyway. You maybe you will be the closest. This may be a decktop unit, but I really doubt it. In the 70's, EAI was moving more to hybrid computers, so this computer MAYBE one that can be interfaced to a digital computer, I just don't know. I don't have any interest in this computer because of the cost of shipping to California. --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com (work) Sr. Software Eng. mranalog@home.com (home) Press Start Inc. http://www.pressstart.com Sunnyvale,CA Curator Analog Computer Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ==================================================== From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 3 12:39:01 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Final tally from the VAX fairy In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000802183323.00c5d100@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Aug 2, 0 07:09:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1109 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000803/ea69246b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 3 12:43:56 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 & RK05 Questions In-Reply-To: <200008030407.AAA20495@drs-esg.com> from "David Gesswein" at Aug 3, 0 00:07:18 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1552 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000803/f187c14a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 3 12:46:58 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: New finds: HP9825 etc. In-Reply-To: from "Kevin Schoedel" at Aug 3, 0 01:25:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 846 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000803/d44d2284/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 3 13:09:21 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: HP82161 tape repairs and failure modes. Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2238 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000803/a8c02a70/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 3 14:19:23 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: PDP-11/34 & RK05 Questions In-Reply-To: <200008031808.OAA31960@drs-esg.com> from "David Gesswein" at Aug 3, 0 02:08:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 851 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000803/ac0403e9/attachment.ksh From jwest at mppw.com Thu Aug 3 14:37:00 2000 From: jwest at mppw.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: HP 1631D logic analyzer help Message-ID: Anyone familiar with an HP 1631D logic analyzer/scope? I just got one used (with pods and grabbers)... no manual yet, so I'm shooting in the dark on this. There's a selftest dip switch on the back. If I set it and power up, the screen says... ------------ Ram OK Rom OK Acquisition OK Analog Error: 21 00 00 Reset back panel switch to........ ------------- I talked to the company I bought it from - they're not familiar with the unit but said they'd gladly send me a different one if mine was bad so I'm not worried about that. However, I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if this really indicates a problem or does the selftest expect a probe to be connected or something (nothing is connected to it now). Any ideas? On a different note... HP quotes the manual for this unit at $72.00USD. Would anyone have one I can borrow and copy for less? Please reply to the list or to west@tseinc.com, not this address. Thanks! Jay West From red at bears.org Thu Aug 3 14:49:14 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: HP82161 tape repairs and failure modes. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > At one time RatShack used to sell replacement pressure pads for cassettes > (!), but not any more. But assuming I can find something that will work > here, it may be possible to recover other marginal or unreadable tapes. > It looks like this is the common failure mode, not the tape itself. FWIW, many audio cassettes use a felt pad there. Think it may be worth cutting yourself a bit of felt to glue in place of the deteriorated foam pad? ok r. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 3 15:11:15 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: HP82161 tape repairs and failure modes. In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at Aug 3, 0 03:49:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 847 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000803/7c649560/attachment.ksh From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Aug 3 15:28:52 2000 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: 'Tis a sad day... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000803162852.00a29100@mail.30below.com> Scene 1. [[ Taps is being played in the background, as you see the 7-man U.S. military formation raising their weapons, a staff sergeant yelling "Fire" and the roar of 7 M-1 Grand Carbines being fired simultaneously. The rain is coming down harder now, with the occasional flash of lightning in near the horizon. Over the patter of the rain, women and young children are heard sobbing quietly, muffled by kerchiefs... ]] Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to mourn the passing of an Interdata rack system, tape drives & all... ........ One of my cow-orkers [Gawd, I like that...] decided to toss nearly *everything* from the Interdata machine that I mentioned earlier, on my day off on Monday. Altho I'm not against dumpster diving, the trash man comes early Tuesday, whereas I don't work until noon. Needless to say, I was pissed beyond believe. I damn near quit my job over it (and I'm co-owner of the store) and am still quite steamed over the entire thing. So I hate to report, all that's left of the system is the Interdata front panel (which they were "nice" enough to break 3 keypad keys off of) a few of the power supplies, and most of the HP 14 inch hard drive, but the top lid & front panel is also no longer of this world. I have 1/2 a mind to give everyone here his email address, so you can berate him personally... Let me think about that... .......... I did spark up the HP64000, and everything works on it, (all of the built-in diagnostics work out fine) but I have no method of booting it - it was booted via it's "network", so it doesn't have a ROM card. :-( Here's a list I jotted on my palm about it: Hp 64100A mainframe sn# 2033a01075 --I/O Ports -- 2 rs232c ports (to modem/to peripheral) current loop 4 bnc ports 300 w. Power supply -- Internal Slots-- slot a: (red) i/o slot b: (white) dspl ctrl slot c: (blue) cpu slot 0: 64940a (tape) slot 1: 64501a (prom) slot 2: (empty) slot 3: (empty) slot 4: (empty) slot 5: (empty) slot 6: 64153a (mem.16k) [1] slot 7: 64151a (mem.con) slot 8: 64300a (int.anl) (internal analysis) slot 9: 64211a (em 6800) The "System Port" on the back looks to be the same thing as the port on the back of the HP 14 inch hard drive mentioned above -- what port is that? (it looks like a 16 or 18 pin Centronics interface) Anyone have any info at all on this beastie? What CPU does it use? (I've found a few webpages so far, but nothing concrete...) Thanks, and sorry for the bad news, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From red at bears.org Thu Aug 3 15:44:07 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: HP82161 tape repairs and failure modes. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > Next job is to find suitable felt. The stuff sold by craft shops is too > thin. Maybe a musical instrument repairer place or something? Yes. They will definitely have felt pads in varying thicknesses. If not in sheets, they'll have doughnut-shaped pieces, which are used under the keys to prevent them from banging up the finish or making undesireable clanks (similar to hearing an artist's untrimmed fingernails on the keys in a piano performance) when a valve is, mm, enthusiastically engaged. ok r. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Aug 3 15:53:48 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: HP82161 tape repairs and failure modes. Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB034@TEGNTSERVER> > Yes. The HP pad is felt-covered foam from the looks of things, but plain > felt might well work well enough to get the data off the tape (which, > honestly, is all I care about at the moment). > > Next job is to find suitable felt. The stuff sold by craft shops is too > thin. Maybe a musical instrument repairer place or something? Since the tape itself is the same size as that of a compact casstte(tm), might I suggest butchering am otherwise un-needed unit, and slice the pad off the comparable leaf spring? As to the proper cement to use, I leave that to you... regards, -dq From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 3 16:10:58 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: HP82161 tape repairs and failure modes. In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB034@TEGNTSERVER> from "Douglas Quebbeman" at Aug 3, 0 04:53:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1506 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000803/4c3f2c26/attachment.ksh From vaxman at uswest.net Thu Aug 3 18:08:40 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Final tally from the VAX fairy In-Reply-To: <000803061035.20200416@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: I have three Avalon Unibus cards... Looking for either documentation and drivers or a good home... clint On Thu, 3 Aug 2000 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > * There are also four "Avalon" boards > * which are quad width, have a Mot 88K > * processor on them, something like a > * 4MB daughter card, one edge connector > * (26 pin) and a couple of LEDs. No clue > * what these do. > > Avalon made Q-bus and Unibus co-processors for special applications. > > As of a couple of years ago, you could get Unibus Alpha CPU boards from > them, if your wallet was thick enough :-). > > * A couple of Sigma Q-bus extenders (labels inside say "do not put a CPU in > * this rack" > > Because they're serpentine ABAB all the way through. If you put a CPU > board with PMI stuff on its CD slots, those PMI signals get mixed with the > Q-bus signals and things don't work. At worst, the magic smoke comes out. > > [Kennedy 9400] > *for most of its life. Tony or anyone else, is there a way to power this up > *without connecting it up and seeing if it can load a tape? > > Yeah, turn it on, put in a tape, hit load! > > *I've also got a Emulex quad width board that looks like an SMD controller, > *part number is: QD3510206. > > Yeah, that's one of their later SMD controllers. Pretty smart - IIRC > it actually has a 68020 on-board! > > Tim. > > From emu at ecubics.com Thu Aug 3 18:23:43 2000 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: pdp11/23+ backplane References: <009c01bffc18$2ccfe520$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <3989FEFF.BA1BAEBD@ecubics.com> Hi all, Anybody out here has a spare h9275 or h9276 backplane ? Thanks, emanuel From vaxman at uswest.net Thu Aug 3 18:12:20 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Scanning microfiche? (Long) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000803093126.021fd100@pc> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Aug 2000, John Foust wrote: > > All evidence points to the light is under software control. Indeed, > I believe UMax's software for Windows for some of its less expensive > scanners includes a desktop applet that lets you turn the light on > and off manually. > I wish I could turn the light on my Microtek scanner off... I hate having to reboot windows so it will recognize the stupid thing... > Some people claim that their scanner will scan transparencies even > though the film isn't back-lit. Most scanners have a non-reflective black pad on the back side. If you put something reflective behind (a mirror?) the transparency, the light will go through and be reflected back. A potential problem is the reflection from the front side of the transparency. > I wonder what would happen if > you back-lit with an ordinary flourescent with a diffuser. > I'd need to dig to find some microfiche. > > - John > > > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Aug 3 19:20:35 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: pdp11/23+ backplane In-Reply-To: <3989FEFF.BA1BAEBD@ecubics.com> from emanuel stiebler at "Aug 3, 2000 05:23:43 pm" Message-ID: <200008040020.TAA29967@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Hi all, > > Anybody out here has a spare h9275 or h9276 backplane ? > > Thanks, > emanuel > I may be wrong... But wouldnt a PDP 11/24 backplane do the job? Since one is on ebay, and noone is bidding on it, and its only $9.95 so far, I thought I'd mention it. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=395890200 -Lawrence LeMay From rexstout at uswest.net Thu Aug 3 20:31:38 2000 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Radio Shack Wire-Wrapping Tool In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Here in St. Joseph we call them the trash shack or the outhouse, because >they are usually out of what you want. Ha! Try Fry's... The one here in Oregon is terrible. Since the day they opened, they have NEVER fully stocked the electronic components! They work damned hard to make sure they have enough TVs and stereos, but screw the nerds... And of course, the items I need are always the missing ones. I don't mind Radio Shack all that much, but I'd rather order through a catalog were I can get things for half the price(most of the time). Still hasn't stopped me from spending WAY too much there :-) And you have to admit that it's nice having stores all over the place that sell scanners. Just stay away from the ham radio equipment(the HTX-10 and mobile 2m are OK, but avoid the handhelds radios at all costs! inferior and WAY overpriced). -- /-----------------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ rexstout@uswest.net | | http://www.geocities.com/jrollins.geo/ | | List admin for orham and ham-mac at www.qth.net | | KD7BCY pdxham at www.egroups.com | \-----------------------------------------------/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Aug 3 19:32:46 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: pdp11/23+ backplane In-Reply-To: <200008040020.TAA29967@caesar.cs.umn.edu> from "Lawrence LeMay" at Aug 03, 2000 07:20:35 PM Message-ID: <200008040032.RAA31554@shell1.aracnet.com> > > > Hi all, > > > > Anybody out here has a spare h9275 or h9276 backplane ? > > > > Thanks, > > emanuel > > > > I may be wrong... But wouldnt a PDP 11/24 backplane do the job? Since one > is on ebay, and noone is bidding on it, and its only $9.95 so far, I > thought I'd mention it. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=395890200 > > -Lawrence LeMay > The 11/23+ is a 22-bit Q-Bus Backplane. The 11/24 is a Unibus Backplane. So I'm afraid they're two totally different beasts. Zane From stan at netcom.com Thu Aug 3 19:54:49 2000 From: stan at netcom.com (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: HP 1631D logic analyzer help References: Message-ID: <398A1459.F306306D@netcom.com> Jay, IIRC, that analog error is an analog channel triggering error. I believe that all of the extended self-test error codes are spelled out in the service manual. As a quick check, you can try triggering the scope section from all three channels, and I think you'll find at least one (Channel 2?) won't trigger the scope, but it will still digitize a waveform. For most purposes, the logic analyzer will be fine, but if I were you, I'd take the company up on the offer to replace it. If the replacement 1631D passes all of the extended self-tests, you can be 99.9% sure that it has no internal problems, since these tests are very extensive. Hope this helps! Stan Jay West wrote: > > Anyone familiar with an HP 1631D logic analyzer/scope? > > I just got one used (with pods and grabbers)... no manual yet, so I'm > shooting in the dark on this. > > There's a selftest dip switch on the back. If I set it and power up, the > screen says... > ------------ > Ram OK > > Rom OK > > Acquisition OK > > Analog Error: > 21 00 00 > > Reset back panel switch to........ > ------------- > > I talked to the company I bought it from - they're not familiar with the > unit but said they'd gladly send me a different one if mine was bad so I'm > not worried about that. However, I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if this > really indicates a problem or does the selftest expect a probe to be > connected or something (nothing is connected to it now). Any ideas? > > On a different note... HP quotes the manual for this unit at $72.00USD. > Would anyone have one I can borrow and copy for less? > > Please reply to the list or to west@tseinc.com, not this address. > > Thanks! > > Jay West From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Aug 3 20:41:56 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: FW: Another FREE Working Vax 4000-200 and 3500 In-Reply-To: <1afi5.8660$GS1.163272@news-west.usenetserver.com> Message-ID: Anyone up for a VAX rescue in Las Vegas? If so, contact the author of the attached message. Nice equipment being offered! -=-=- -=-=- In article <1afi5.8660$GS1.163272@news-west.usenetserver.com>, you say... > Path: news.uswest.net!news-out.uswest.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!howland.erols.net!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone1.usenetserver.com!news-west.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail > From: "Jack Peacock" > Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec.micro,comp.sys.dec > References: <9ekhos0urqlvn47uhn6obaqvq8j9bui2bi@4ax.com> > Subject: Another FREE Working Vax 4000-200 and 3500 > Lines: 28 > Organization: Simco > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 > X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 > Message-ID: <1afi5.8660$GS1.163272@news-west.usenetserver.com> > X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers > X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly > X-Complaints-To: support@usenetserver.com > NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 03 Aug 2000 10:17:33 EDT > Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 07:17:17 -0700 > Xref: news-out.uswest.net comp.sys.dec.micro:1211 comp.sys.dec:11530 > > I also have a working VAX 4000-200, 32MB RAM, CMD SCSI disk controller, > TU80 tape drive, CXY08 8 port serial and CXY16 16 port serial boards. > Rack mounted BA213 chassis, and TU80 is rack mounted too. Cables for > CXY boards. I will throw in a couple Micropolis 650MB SCSI drives too. > There is a TF86 tape drive that has a problem, may be broken tape > header. Extra DELQA ethernet board too. This machine was running when > shut down 6 months ago. > > The catch? You have to pick it up in Las Vegas NV, and no I won't give > away just the boards. I would rather it all goes to someone who wants > to preserve an old VAX (I got a 4000-90 now, no space for the 4200). > > Along with the 4000-200 there is another rack mount BA213 with a VAX > 3500 CPU (KA650), 32MB 3rd party memory (doesn't work in the 4000-200 > but just fine in the 3500), CMD SCSI controller, dual DELQAs, and a > TK50. Same deal, it's your's if you haul it off, and I believe I have > an RZ58 (980MB) drive for it too. It was running when shut down 6 > months ago. > > Now if someone has a spare 200Mhz CPU or memory card for an Alpha 2100 > 200/4 (what used to be called the A500MP) I would love to trade. > > Interested? Boss says give it away or throw it away. Send me an email > if you want to drive a truck to Vegas for a quick vacation and get some > clean goodies for the trip home. > Jack Peacock > peacock@simconv.com > -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner/Head Honcho, Blue Feather Technologies (http://www.bluefeathertech.com) kyrrin [a-t] bluefeathertech {d=o=t} com "I'll get a life when someone demonstrates that it would be superior to what I have now..." (Gym Z. Quirk, aka Taki Kogoma) From ncherry at home.net Thu Aug 3 20:57:16 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Burning PROMs .... References: Message-ID: <398A22FC.5AA2A4B2@home.net> I just finished putting together a Cisco CGS router (AT&T Starwan model 200 BRouter). I have a CSC4 which I'm in the process of upgrading from 9.21 to 11.0(22). I d/l'd the image from Cisco and I now need to burn the single image into 8 EPROMs (which I have). I'll be using an S4 burner but I think I'm going to need to split the files so I can drop the image into the EPROMs. Anyone know of a good splitting routine? Remember that the EPROMs are 8 bit and the code is 16 or 32 bit (68040). Thanks. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Aug 3 21:17:50 2000 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Scanning microfiche? (Long) Message-ID: <000803221750.20200481@trailing-edge.com> > Most scanners have a non-reflective black pad on the back side. If > you put something reflective behind (a mirror?) the transparency, > the light will go through and be reflected back. A potential > problem is the reflection from the front side of the transparency. A much bigger problem than that exists. If you put a mirror on a Xerox machine, time as we know it will stop! Tim. From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Aug 3 21:24:14 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Burning PROMs .... In-Reply-To: <398A22FC.5AA2A4B2@home.net> (message from Neil Cherry on Thu, 03 Aug 2000 21:57:16 -0400) References: <398A22FC.5AA2A4B2@home.net> Message-ID: <20000804022414.17367.qmail@brouhaha.com> > the single image into 8 EPROMs (which I have). I'll be using an S4 burner > but I think I'm going to need to split the files so I can drop the image > into the EPROMs. Anyone know of a good splitting routine? Remember that > the EPROMs are 8 bit and the code is 16 or 32 bit (68040). The SRecord package from Peter Miller is good for that sort of stuff: http://www.canb.auug.org.au/~millerp/srecord.html From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Aug 3 21:59:46 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: pdp11/23+ backplane References: <200008040020.TAA29967@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <398A31A2.2F132962@idirect.com> >Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > Anybody out here has a spare h9275 or h9276 backplane ? > I may be wrong... But wouldnt a PDP 11/24 backplane do the job? Since one > is on ebay, and noone is bidding on it, and its only $9.95 so far, I > thought I'd mention it. > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=395890200 Jerome Fine replies: Nope! At least I am reasonable sure. But in looking for the item, the URL would not work the first time, so I did a search on PDP. This fellow is able to get $US18.00 so far for the PDP-11/73 control panel. Look at item: 398908711. The full URL is: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=398908711 but for some reason, Netscape will not accept any characters in the URL after the "&" character. Can anyone help with that problem? Now, maybe I am a bit stupid, but I have a dozen of these floating around - does anyone else want to offer me $US18.00 for each one;-) (Is that the correct symbol?) Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From vaxman at uswest.net Thu Aug 3 22:08:19 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Subject: Re: Scanning microfiche? (Long) In-Reply-To: <000803221750.20200481@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 Aug 2000 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > > Most scanners have a non-reflective black pad on the back side. If > > you put something reflective behind (a mirror?) the transparency, > > the light will go through and be reflected back. A potential > > problem is the reflection from the front side of the transparency. > > A much bigger problem than that exists. If you put a mirror on a Xerox > machine, time as we know it will stop! > > Tim. > COOL!!! I'm going to try this tommorrow at 9:00 AM MST! So everybody needs to save their work before then..... *** Universe shutdown message from root@oldy.crwolff.com *** Universe going down at 09:00 From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Aug 3 22:43:42 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: pdp11/23+ backplane References: <200008040020.TAA29967@caesar.cs.umn.edu> <398A31A2.2F132962@idirect.com> Message-ID: <398A3BEE.DE41A16E@idirect.com> >Jerome Fine wrote: > [Snip] > item: 398908711. The full URL is: > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=398908711 > but for some reason, Netscape will not accept any characters in the URL > after the "&" character. Can anyone help with that problem? Jerome Fine replies (to myself): I turned off the html text in Netscape when I sent the response and it seems to have put the complete URL back together. When I saved the draft before it was sent, the part after the "&" was not included. Well, problem half solved! Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Aug 3 22:44:07 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: pdp11/23+ backplaney In-Reply-To: <398A31A2.2F132962@idirect.com> from Jerome Fine at "Aug 3, 2000 10:59:46 pm" Message-ID: <200008040344.WAA00208@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > Jerome Fine replies: > > Nope! At least I am reasonable sure. But in looking for the item, the URL > would not work the first time, so I did a search on PDP. This fellow is > able to get $US18.00 so far for the PDP-11/73 control panel. Look at > item: 398908711. The full URL is: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=398908711 > > but for some reason, Netscape will not accept any characters in the URL > after the "&" character. Can anyone help with that problem? > > Now, maybe I am a bit stupid, but I have a dozen of these floating around - > does anyone else want to offer me $US18.00 for each one;-) (Is that the > correct symbol?) > Gee, I only paid $17.50 for a PDP-11/20 panel about a week back. At $2 a pop for DEC bulbs, if only 9 of the bulbs work, the rest is just icing on the cake... -Lawrence LeMay From jlewczyk at his.com Thu Aug 3 22:47:12 2000 From: jlewczyk at his.com (John Lewczyk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Music Performances from dot matrix printers! This group is looking for some old printers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201bffdc6$ac136f50$013da8c0@Corellian> Check out this site which I found through slashdot.org. An interesting use of those old beasts as musical instruments. http://www.sat.qc.ca/the_user/dotmatrix/en/intro.html And I thought using printers for music went out with the old line printers of the (50's? and ) 60's! :-) Incidently, they are looking for printers. I quote from their web page: "If you happen to have another Epson TX-80B "Essna", a Citizen "Swift", or an Apple StyleWriter 1200 - we want it." write to them at: theuser@sat.qc.ca (You could get a tax deduction for donating a "musical instrument"! ;-) From schoedel at kw.igs.net Thu Aug 3 22:44:50 2000 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: New finds: HP9825 etc. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000803080803.39a70ef4@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <3.0.1.16.20000803080803.39a70ef4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On 2000/08/03 at 8:08am -0500, you wrote: > Yes, the interfaces are the same but the ROMs are very different. Do >you have a 9845? Yes, and by coincidence it has exactly the interfaces and peripherals corresponding to the 9825's ROMs. >Does the 9825 have the >pull-out system ROM in the side or only a slotted cover? If it has the ROM >then it's a 9825 A, if it has the slotted cover then it's a B model. It does have the side ROM drawer (and is marked 9825A), though it has the full-travel keyboard (which IMHO is *horrible* -- nothing like the contactless keys on the 9845). >>Also got a 6800 evaluation board, MEK6800D2, with hex keypad & LED display. > > That's cool. The 6800 evaluation boards are rare. That module is >described in Motorola's MicroProcesor Applications Manual for the 6800. I >HIGHLY recommend that book if you're interested in the 6800s. I don't have that book. While I'm not especially interested in microprocessors generally, these little boards remind me of the first machine I owned myself -- although at 512 bytes, this one has *twice* as much memory. *Luxury*! -- Kevin Schoedel schoedel@kw.igs.net From schoedel at kw.igs.net Thu Aug 3 23:09:57 2000 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: New finds: DEC/DSD/MDB In-Reply-To: <39898336.2AD76671@idirect.com> References: <39898336.2AD76671@idirect.com> Message-ID: Jerome Fine wrote: >If the 11/23 is a dual board, you may have a bit of a problem in the BA23 >since the BLUE box was designed with boot boards that might not be >compatible with the BA23. Because the BA23 has termination, or because it's a 22-bit backplane, or something else? The bootstrap is an M8012-YA (BDV11) terminator/bootstrap, and neither it nor the other option cards (M8044-HD 64Kb, DSD floppy controller, M8043 async) connect the pins for bits 18-21 (BC1-BF1). The CPU is a dual-width card, and has no apparent revision marked, so I guess I should assume it is the 18-bit version. All else being equal (i.e. provided it works) I'd prefer to keep the system in its original enclosure anyway, that is, more or less close to its previous working configuration. >> As I found it, the arrangement of cards has gaps, unless the backplane is >> *really* weird. The backplane itself is MDB model MLSI 40328 -- anyone >> know the layout? > >If I remember, Transduction used a hex back plane modified to be a Qbus >interface with a serpentine use of the "extra" slots. But I can't remember >the order. For the archives, this backplane is 4x8 and turns out to have the 'usual' serpentine configuration throughout; i.e. the same arrangement as slots 5-12 in a BA123. It is 18 bit; pins BC1 - BF1 are not connected. >> The only non-obvious card in the system is an MDB DR11B... is this a >> parallel interface? > >Probably. MDB boards were usually named by their DEC counterpart. Seems plausible that it is a 16-bit parallel I/O card, from the 74173s attached to the headers. Anyone know whether this is DRV11-B compatible (it is a qbus card, of course), or otherwise have any programming information for it? From time to time I'm tempted to buy some old PeeCee just to get a usable parallel port, but I'd much rather use a PDP-11 :-) -- Kevin Schoedel schoedel@kw.igs.net From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Aug 3 23:53:34 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: VAX/VLC framebuffers? Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000803215216.00afeed0@208.226.86.10> So my new VLC has a different frame buffer (for some reason I thought they were all the same). This one has a little switch on it and flat ram chips (all the others have a row of soldered in SIPs for ram and no switch. Anyone know what the difference is? Zane? --Chuck From emu at ecubics.com Fri Aug 4 00:10:38 2000 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: VAX/VLC framebuffers? References: <4.3.1.2.20000803215216.00afeed0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <398A504E.24C578D9@ecubics.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > > So my new VLC has a different frame buffer (for some reason I thought they > were all the same). Nope. > This one has a little switch on it and flat ram chips > (all the others have a row of soldered in SIPs for ram and no switch. > Anyone know what the difference is? Zane? At least two versions out there: a.) 1 mbyte VRAM, with 2 crystals, resolution 1024x864x8 b.) 2 mbyte VRAM, one crystal, resolution 1280x1024x8 cheers From ncherry at home.net Thu Aug 3 23:28:50 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: New finds: HP9825 etc. References: <3.0.1.16.20000803080803.39a70ef4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <398A4682.883415F9@home.net> Kevin Schoedel wrote: > > On 2000/08/03 at 8:08am -0500, you wrote: > >>Also got a 6800 evaluation board, MEK6800D2, with hex keypad & LED display. > > > > That's cool. The 6800 evaluation boards are rare. That module is > >described in Motorola's MicroProcesor Applications Manual for the 6800. I > >HIGHLY recommend that book if you're interested in the 6800s. > > I don't have that book. While I'm not especially interested in > microprocessors generally, these little boards remind me of the first > machine I owned myself -- although at 512 bytes, this one has *twice* as > much memory. *Luxury*! I have 2 6800D2's, the full manual and the power supplies. One has the keyboard interface the other does not (I had the keyboard around here somewhere. Nice to know that they are rare, but they're not for sale. :-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Fri Aug 4 08:08:52 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Music Performances from dot matrix printers! This group is l ooking for some old printers Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB037@TEGNTSERVER> > Check out this site which I found through slashdot.org. An > interesting use of those old beasts as musical instruments. > > http://www.sat.qc.ca/the_user/dotmatrix/en/intro.html > > And I thought using printers for music went out with the old > line printers of the (50's? and ) 60's! :-) Surely you jest! We were playing "Row-Row-Row Your Boat" on our Dataproducts LPM300 well into the 1980s... In fact, I have the "music" on the [dead] Prime at home, just no line printer to play it on! -dq From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Aug 4 08:34:33 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Lt. Kernal Message-ID: <200008041334.GAA09636@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Thanks to a generous seller, I'm now the proud owner of a * Lt. Kernal 20MB hard drive (Commodore) * host adaptor that connects the drive to the 64's expansion port * port muxer allowing multiple Commodores to be networked to one drive * billions of copies of the manual (whew!) * sysgen disk The problem is the installation. You have to find these cables that connect to a 2-pin jumper on one side and certain pins on the Commodore motherboard on the other with a clip. Does anyone have, or know where I can get, these types of cables? The clip I've seen, but I don't know where I'd find the little two-hole female jacks that connect up to the pins on the HA. Anyone know what I'm talking about? (hopeful :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- NOBODY EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION! ------------------------------------ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Aug 4 08:35:29 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Music Performances from dot matrix printers! This group is l ooking for some old printers In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB037@TEGNTSERVER> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Aug 4, 0 09:08:52 am" Message-ID: <200008041335.GAA09900@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Check out this site which I found through slashdot.org. An > > interesting use of those old beasts as musical instruments. > > > > http://www.sat.qc.ca/the_user/dotmatrix/en/intro.html > > > > And I thought using printers for music went out with the old > > line printers of the (50's? and ) 60's! :-) > > Surely you jest! We were playing "Row-Row-Row Your Boat" on our > Dataproducts LPM300 well into the 1980s... > > In fact, I have the "music" on the [dead] Prime at home, just > no line printer to play it on! And I'm sure you've all heard the Commodore Drive Music program that plays music by banging the 1541 disk drive's heads around. It's a remarkable rendition of "Daisy, Daisy" :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If you want divine justice, die. -- Nick Seldon ---------------------------- From RCini at congressfinancial.com Fri Aug 4 08:38:54 2000 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Stupid DOS tricks-redirecting console Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E30E7@MAIL10> Hello, all: It's been a long time since I've banged around pure DOS, so I can't remember all of its tricks. Here's what I want to do. I want to occasionally hook a terminal to a small 486 SBC/data collector which is running "headless." I seem to remember that the console I/O can be redirected to a COM port with a command like "MODE COM1:=CON" or something like that. I'm not at home now, so I can't try it, but am I on the right track? Will that redirect both screen and keyboard I/O? Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From PasserM at umkc.edu Fri Aug 4 09:05:58 2000 From: PasserM at umkc.edu (Passer, Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Stupid DOS tricks-redirecting console Message-ID: <95A711A70065D111B58C00609451555C077351D6@umkc-mail02.wins.umkc.edu> I think you're thinking of the CTTY command. IIRC, just CTTY COM1: after you've set the port parameters with MODE. --Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Cini, Richard Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 8:39 AM To: 'ClassCompList' Subject: Stupid DOS tricks-redirecting console Hello, all: It's been a long time since I've banged around pure DOS, so I can't remember all of its tricks. Here's what I want to do. I want to occasionally hook a terminal to a small 486 SBC/data collector which is running "headless." I seem to remember that the console I/O can be redirected to a COM port with a command like "MODE COM1:=CON" or something like that. I'm not at home now, so I can't try it, but am I on the right track? Will that redirect both screen and keyboard I/O? Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Aug 4 09:15:17 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Stupid DOS tricks-redirecting console In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E30E7@MAIL10> from "Cini, Richard" at "Aug 4, 0 09:38:54 am" Message-ID: <200008041415.HAA12526@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > It's been a long time since I've banged around pure DOS, so I can't > remember all of its tricks. Here's what I want to do. I want to occasionally > hook a terminal to a small 486 SBC/data collector which is running > "headless." I seem to remember that the console I/O can be redirected to a > COM port with a command like "MODE COM1:=CON" or something like that. I'm > not at home now, so I can't try it, but am I on the right track? Will that > redirect both screen and keyboard I/O? I thought the command was STTY -- for example, STTY NUL is a great way to make your computer pathologically introverted. ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'll be at the opening of my garage door." From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Aug 4 09:57:49 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Stupid DOS tricks-redirecting console In-Reply-To: <95A711A70065D111B58C00609451555C077351D6@umkc-mail02.wins.umkc.edu> from "Passer, Michael" at "Aug 4, 0 09:05:58 am" Message-ID: <200008041457.HAA12388@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I think you're thinking of the CTTY command. IIRC, just CTTY COM1: > after you've set the port parameters with MODE. Yes, CTTY. STTY, indeed! -- I must have Unix mode on. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TRUE HEADLINE: New Study of Obesity Looks for Larger Test Group ------------ From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Aug 4 09:39:04 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Stupid DOS tricks-redirecting console In-Reply-To: "Cini, Richard"'s message of "Fri, 4 Aug 2000 09:38:54 -0400" References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E30E7@MAIL10> Message-ID: <200008041439.HAA77842@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Cini, Richard" wrote: > "headless." I seem to remember that the console I/O can be redirected to a > COM port with a command like "MODE COM1:=CON" or something like that. I'm > not at home now, so I can't try it, but am I on the right track? Will that You are thinking of the "ctty" command. "ctty com1" should do what you want. -Frank McConnell From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Aug 4 11:47:20 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Going offline for a while Message-ID: <20000804164720.740.qmail@web618.mail.yahoo.com> I'm frantically finishing the last of the projects at work so I can execute the "Getting The Hell Out Of Here" manuever. To those members of the list with whom I have active dialogs (PET parts, Amiga docs, Cisco ROMs...), I will be away from e-mail for two weeks. I'll pick up where I left off when I return. Later, -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites. http://invites.yahoo.com/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Aug 4 12:05:52 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Stupid DOS tricks-redirecting console In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E30E7@MAIL10> Message-ID: <398B1410.5585.F962D5@localhost> > It's been a long time since I've banged around pure DOS, so I can't > remember all of its tricks. Here's what I want to do. I want to occasionally > hook a terminal to a small 486 SBC/data collector which is running > "headless." I seem to remember that the console I/O can be redirected to a > COM port with a command like "MODE COM1:=CON" or something like that. I'm > not at home now, so I can't try it, but am I on the right track? Will that > redirect both screen and keyboard I/O? CTTY CTTY AUX or CTTY COM1 CTTY CON will reset to startup conditions. The command is available starting with DOS 2.0 and schould still work fine with DO above 5.0 (never tested) You may assign any two way character device (Well, depending on your drivers one way devices may also produce _some_ result. Be aware that _only_ the DOS in/output functions are redirected. Only programms using INT 21h 01h-0Ch (except the AUX and Print functions 04h-06h) will produce acceptable results. all other ways, including BIOS character I/O may or may not work, depending on your version of DOS (Basicly the BIOS functions will not work, but there are some special Versions of DOS (or DOSalikes) where CTTY is also redirecting the BIOS functions). CTTY COM1 MODE LPT1=COM1 may be used to redirekt printer output to your terminal (DOS 3.2 and above). Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 4 11:08:27 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:43 2005 Subject: Music Performances from dot matrix printers! This group is l ooking for some old printers In-Reply-To: <200008041335.GAA09900@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Aug 2000, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > And I'm sure you've all heard the Commodore Drive Music program that > plays music by banging the 1541 disk drive's heads around. It's a > remarkable rendition of "Daisy, Daisy" :-) I was mezmerized by that when I first heard it back in 1987 or so. I played it over and over and over again. I was inspired to come up with a similar program on the Apple but all I could manage to make the Disk ][ drive exude were burps and farts. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From mark.champion at am.sony.com Fri Aug 4 12:09:39 2000 From: mark.champion at am.sony.com (Mark Champion) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: HP 1631D logic analyzer help References: <398A1459.F306306D@netcom.com> Message-ID: <025201bffe36$c7c615c0$4721892b@stg.sel.sony.com> I have an HP1631D. Mine has no analog scope capability. Maybe this was an option which neither Jay nor I have? Perhaps this error is indicated if the "scope" option is not installed? I'd perform the same test to see the result, but my logic analyzer is in storage. Sorry. Mark Champion Sony Electronics 425-771-2400 mark.champion@am.sony.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Perkins" To: Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 5:54 PM Subject: Re: HP 1631D logic analyzer help > Jay, > > IIRC, that analog error is an analog channel triggering error. I believe > that all of the extended self-test error codes are spelled out in the > service manual. > > As a quick check, you can try triggering the scope section from all > three channels, and I think you'll find at least one (Channel 2?) won't > trigger the scope, but it will still digitize a waveform. For most > purposes, the logic analyzer will be fine, but if I were you, I'd take > the company up on the offer to replace it. > > If the replacement 1631D passes all of the extended self-tests, you can > be 99.9% sure that it has no internal problems, since these tests are > very extensive. > > Hope this helps! > > Stan > > Jay West wrote: > > > > Anyone familiar with an HP 1631D logic analyzer/scope? > > > > I just got one used (with pods and grabbers)... no manual yet, so I'm > > shooting in the dark on this. > > > > There's a selftest dip switch on the back. If I set it and power up, the > > screen says... > > ------------ > > Ram OK > > > > Rom OK > > > > Acquisition OK > > > > Analog Error: > > 21 00 00 > > > > Reset back panel switch to........ > > ------------- > > > > I talked to the company I bought it from - they're not familiar with the > > unit but said they'd gladly send me a different one if mine was bad so I'm > > not worried about that. However, I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if this > > really indicates a problem or does the selftest expect a probe to be > > connected or something (nothing is connected to it now). Any ideas? > > > > On a different note... HP quotes the manual for this unit at $72.00USD. > > Would anyone have one I can borrow and copy for less? > > > > Please reply to the list or to west@tseinc.com, not this address. > > > > Thanks! > > > > Jay West From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 4 11:12:59 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Stupid DOS tricks-redirecting console In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E30E7@MAIL10> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Aug 2000, Cini, Richard wrote: > It's been a long time since I've banged around pure DOS, so I can't > remember all of its tricks. Here's what I want to do. I want to occasionally > hook a terminal to a small 486 SBC/data collector which is running > "headless." I seem to remember that the console I/O can be redirected to a > COM port with a command like "MODE COM1:=CON" or something like that. I'm > not at home now, so I can't try it, but am I on the right track? Will that > redirect both screen and keyboard I/O? Yes, you're on the right track. Try going into DOS and type HELP MODE. That may have more info. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Fri Aug 4 11:13:13 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Stupid DOS tricks-redirecting console In-Reply-To: <200008041415.HAA12526@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 Aug 2000, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > It's been a long time since I've banged around pure DOS, so I can't > > remember all of its tricks. Here's what I want to do. I want to occasionally > > hook a terminal to a small 486 SBC/data collector which is running > > "headless." I seem to remember that the console I/O can be redirected to a > > COM port with a command like "MODE COM1:=CON" or something like that. I'm > > not at home now, so I can't try it, but am I on the right track? Will that > > redirect both screen and keyboard I/O? > > I thought the command was STTY -- for example, STTY NUL is a great way > to make your computer pathologically introverted. ;-) That's Unix. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Fri Aug 4 12:42:44 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Music Performances from dot matrix printers! This group is l ooking for some old printers In-Reply-To: from Sellam Ismail at "Aug 4, 0 09:08:27 am" Message-ID: <200008041742.KAA07776@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > And I'm sure you've all heard the Commodore Drive Music program that > > plays music by banging the 1541 disk drive's heads around. It's a > > remarkable rendition of "Daisy, Daisy" :-) > I was mezmerized by that when I first heard it back in 1987 or so. I > played it over and over and over again. > > I was inspired to come up with a similar program on the Apple but all I > could manage to make the Disk ][ drive exude were burps and farts. The unfortunate thing is that it doesn't work very well on all Commodore 15x1 drives. On 1541Cs (white case) it is quieter, quieter still on 1571s, virtually inaudible on 1541-IIs (little white case with external power supply) and of course won't run at all on 1581s. ;-) So, to appreciate this amazing hack, run it on a real brown 1541 for the highest, uh, fidelity. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Coffee. Delight. Border. May I see your passport please? -- Firesign Theater From stan at netcom.com Fri Aug 4 12:58:43 2000 From: stan at netcom.com (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: HP 1631D logic analyzer help References: <398A1459.F306306D@netcom.com> <025201bffe36$c7c615c0$4721892b@stg.sel.sony.com> Message-ID: <398B0453.19E85ABE@netcom.com> Mark, "Analog" is a bit of a misnomer. The 1631D incorporates a dual channel, 50 MHz bandwidth digitizing scope in addition to the usual logic analyzer functions. HP refers to this section as the "analog" section in the self-test descriptions, so I was using the same nomenclature to describe it in my posting. The 1631A/D instruments are the same as the 1630A/D instruments with the addition of the extra PCB with the scope circuitry. Jay's instrument and yours should have three BNC connectors on the front panel underneath the keyboard area for the scope inputs. If yours doesn't, it's probably a 1630D. A 1630 series analyzer will make no reference to an analog section in the self-tests, as it has different ROMs. If yours has no scope inputs, but still refers to the (non-existent) analog section in the self-tests, then you've got an instrument with the 1631 ROMs installed. Hope this clears up any confusion! Regards, Stan Mark Champion wrote: > > I have an HP1631D. Mine has no analog scope capability. Maybe this was > an option which neither Jay nor I have? Perhaps this error is indicated > if the "scope" option is not installed? > > I'd perform the same test to see the result, but my logic analyzer is in > storage. Sorry. > > Mark Champion > Sony Electronics > 425-771-2400 > mark.champion@am.sony.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stan Perkins" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 5:54 PM > Subject: Re: HP 1631D logic analyzer help > > > Jay, > > > > IIRC, that analog error is an analog channel triggering error. I believe > > that all of the extended self-test error codes are spelled out in the > > service manual. > > > > As a quick check, you can try triggering the scope section from all > > three channels, and I think you'll find at least one (Channel 2?) won't > > trigger the scope, but it will still digitize a waveform. For most > > purposes, the logic analyzer will be fine, but if I were you, I'd take > > the company up on the offer to replace it. > > > > If the replacement 1631D passes all of the extended self-tests, you can > > be 99.9% sure that it has no internal problems, since these tests are > > very extensive. > > > > Hope this helps! > > > > Stan > > > > Jay West wrote: > > > > > > Anyone familiar with an HP 1631D logic analyzer/scope? > > > > > > I just got one used (with pods and grabbers)... no manual yet, so I'm > > > shooting in the dark on this. > > > > > > There's a selftest dip switch on the back. If I set it and power up, the > > > screen says... > > > ------------ > > > Ram OK > > > > > > Rom OK > > > > > > Acquisition OK > > > > > > Analog Error: > > > 21 00 00 > > > > > > Reset back panel switch to........ > > > ------------- > > > > > > I talked to the company I bought it from - they're not familiar with the > > > unit but said they'd gladly send me a different one if mine was bad so I'm > > > not worried about that. However, I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if this > > > really indicates a problem or does the selftest expect a probe to be > > > connected or something (nothing is connected to it now). Any ideas? > > > > > > On a different note... HP quotes the manual for this unit at $72.00USD. > > > Would anyone have one I can borrow and copy for less? > > > > > > Please reply to the list or to west@tseinc.com, not this address. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Jay West From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Aug 4 14:20:00 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: HP 1631D logic analyzer help In-Reply-To: <025201bffe36$c7c615c0$4721892b@stg.sel.sony.com> (mark.champion@am.sony.com) References: <398A1459.F306306D@netcom.com> <025201bffe36$c7c615c0$4721892b@stg.sel.sony.com> Message-ID: <20000804192000.26393.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Mark Champion" wrote: > I have an HP1631D. Mine has no analog scope capability. Maybe this was > an option which neither Jay nor I have? Perhaps this error is indicated > if the "scope" option is not installed? All 1631A and 1631D models shipped with the 2-channel scope feature. This is what distinguished them from the 1630A and 1630D. If your 1631D doesn't have the scope, either it has the wrong nameplate, or someone removed the scope board. In the latter case, they should have changed the firmware as well. Does your 1631D have the BNC connectors on the front? Does it have holes for them? From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Aug 4 14:35:30 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: VAX/VLC framebuffers? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000803215216.00afeed0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: >So my new VLC has a different frame buffer (for some reason I thought they >were all the same). This one has a little switch on it and flat ram chips >(all the others have a row of soldered in SIPs for ram and no switch. >Anyone know what the difference is? Zane? > >--Chuck Here are the three models and the graphics options in them. VS48K-AA - 1024x768, 66(72?)Hz - RGB (unknown connector, possibly 15-pin D) VS48K-BA - 1024x768, 60Hz - SVGA (miniature D, PC-style) VS48K-CA - 1280x1024, 72Hz - RGB (DEC-special, 3 mini-coax) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mark.champion at am.sony.com Fri Aug 4 16:40:12 2000 From: mark.champion at am.sony.com (Mark Champion) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: HP 1631D logic analyzer help References: <398A1459.F306306D@netcom.com> <025201bffe36$c7c615c0$4721892b@stg.sel.sony.com> <398B0453.19E85ABE@netcom.com> Message-ID: <02c901bffe5c$9323b360$4721892b@stg.sel.sony.com> I guess you're right. I'm working from memory as my logic analyzer is in storage. Sorry if I added any confusion to this thread. Mark Champion Sony Electronics 425-771-2400 mark.champion@am.sony.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stan Perkins" To: ; Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 10:58 AM Subject: Re: HP 1631D logic analyzer help Mark, "Analog" is a bit of a misnomer. The 1631D incorporates a dual channel, 50 MHz bandwidth digitizing scope in addition to the usual logic analyzer functions. HP refers to this section as the "analog" section in the self-test descriptions, so I was using the same nomenclature to describe it in my posting. The 1631A/D instruments are the same as the 1630A/D instruments with the addition of the extra PCB with the scope circuitry. Jay's instrument and yours should have three BNC connectors on the front panel underneath the keyboard area for the scope inputs. If yours doesn't, it's probably a 1630D. A 1630 series analyzer will make no reference to an analog section in the self-tests, as it has different ROMs. If yours has no scope inputs, but still refers to the (non-existent) analog section in the self-tests, then you've got an instrument with the 1631 ROMs installed. Hope this clears up any confusion! Regards, Stan Mark Champion wrote: > > I have an HP1631D. Mine has no analog scope capability. Maybe this was > an option which neither Jay nor I have? Perhaps this error is indicated > if the "scope" option is not installed? > > I'd perform the same test to see the result, but my logic analyzer is in > storage. Sorry. > > Mark Champion > Sony Electronics > 425-771-2400 > mark.champion@am.sony.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stan Perkins" > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 03, 2000 5:54 PM > Subject: Re: HP 1631D logic analyzer help > > > Jay, > > > > IIRC, that analog error is an analog channel triggering error. I believe > > that all of the extended self-test error codes are spelled out in the > > service manual. > > > > As a quick check, you can try triggering the scope section from all > > three channels, and I think you'll find at least one (Channel 2?) won't > > trigger the scope, but it will still digitize a waveform. For most > > purposes, the logic analyzer will be fine, but if I were you, I'd take > > the company up on the offer to replace it. > > > > If the replacement 1631D passes all of the extended self-tests, you can > > be 99.9% sure that it has no internal problems, since these tests are > > very extensive. > > > > Hope this helps! > > > > Stan > > > > Jay West wrote: > > > > > > Anyone familiar with an HP 1631D logic analyzer/scope? > > > > > > I just got one used (with pods and grabbers)... no manual yet, so I'm > > > shooting in the dark on this. > > > > > > There's a selftest dip switch on the back. If I set it and power up, the > > > screen says... > > > ------------ > > > Ram OK > > > > > > Rom OK > > > > > > Acquisition OK > > > > > > Analog Error: > > > 21 00 00 > > > > > > Reset back panel switch to........ > > > ------------- > > > > > > I talked to the company I bought it from - they're not familiar with the > > > unit but said they'd gladly send me a different one if mine was bad so I'm > > > not worried about that. However, I'm wondering if anyone can tell me if this > > > really indicates a problem or does the selftest expect a probe to be > > > connected or something (nothing is connected to it now). Any ideas? > > > > > > On a different note... HP quotes the manual for this unit at $72.00USD. > > > Would anyone have one I can borrow and copy for less? > > > > > > Please reply to the list or to west@tseinc.com, not this address. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Jay West From vaxman at uswest.net Fri Aug 4 16:57:27 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Paging Doug Quebbman (was Re: Slightly OT: OS/2 2.1 for sale/trade/free (fwd)) Message-ID: Doug, My email to you bounced... clint ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 07:24:39 -0400 From: System Administrator To: vaxman@uswest.net Subject: Undeliverable: Re: Slightly OT: OS/2 2.1 for sale/trade/free Your message To: dhquebbman@theestopinalgroup.com; root@bony.umtec.com; hans.franke@mch20.sbs.de Subject: Re: Slightly OT: OS/2 2.1 for sale/trade/free Sent: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 19:30:25 -0400 did not reach the following recipient(s): dhquebbman@theestopinalgroup.com on Fri, 4 Aug 2000 07:24:34 -0400 The recipient name is not recognized The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=US;a= ;p=The Estopinal Gr;l=TEGNTSERVER0008041124Q2B4LZRK MSEXCH:IMS:The Estopinal Group:TEGJEFF:TEGNTSERVER 0 (000C05A6) Unknown Recipient From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 4 17:36:16 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: 11/73 control panel on Epay Message-ID: Of course, the only valuable thing about it is that it has the damn near impossible to find model number medallion on it... I wish I could find an 11/83 one, and a VAXstation II/GPX one.. Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From rcini at optonline.net Fri Aug 4 19:54:46 2000 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Paging---Kevin McQuiggin Message-ID: Sorry for the intrusion...Kevin, if you're out there, shoot me an e-mail. I have a question about the Highgate server. Thanks for the bandwidth... Rich From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Aug 4 21:28:39 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: VAX/VLC framebuffers? In-Reply-To: ; from healyzh@aracnet.com on Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 12:35:30PM -0700 References: <4.3.1.2.20000803215216.00afeed0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <20000804212838.E1472@mrbill.net> On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 12:35:30PM -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >So my new VLC has a different frame buffer (for some reason I thought they > >were all the same). This one has a little switch on it and flat ram chips > >(all the others have a row of soldered in SIPs for ram and no switch. > >Anyone know what the difference is? Zane? > Here are the three models and the graphics options in them. > VS48K-CA - 1280x1024, 72Hz - RGB (DEC-special, 3 mini-coax) I've got this one; anybody know where I can find a monitor/cables to go along with it? Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From vaxman at uswest.net Fri Aug 4 22:54:34 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: VAX/VLC framebuffers? In-Reply-To: <20000804212838.E1472@mrbill.net> Message-ID: I see cables for this quite frequently on EBay. I believe the part # is BC29G-xx... I don't bid on them, so you might even win one :^ clint On Fri, 4 Aug 2000, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 12:35:30PM -0700, Zane H. Healy wrote: > > >So my new VLC has a different frame buffer (for some reason I thought they > > >were all the same). This one has a little switch on it and flat ram chips > > >(all the others have a row of soldered in SIPs for ram and no switch. > > >Anyone know what the difference is? Zane? > > Here are the three models and the graphics options in them. > > VS48K-CA - 1280x1024, 72Hz - RGB (DEC-special, 3 mini-coax) > > I've got this one; anybody know where I can find a monitor/cables to go > along with it? > > Bill > > -- > +-------------------\ /-----------------+ > | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | > | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | > | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | > +-------------------/ \-----------------+ > > From jlwest at tseinc.com Fri Aug 4 23:18:13 2000 From: jlwest at tseinc.com (jlwest@tseinc.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#400900863: HP 9895A Dual Disc Drive Message-ID: <20000805041814.F284F6B1@pobblebonk.ebay.com> I noticed this item on Epay. It's not in a section most people probably look at, and I thought someone here might be interested in this. Jay West Title of item: HP 9895A Dual Disc Drive Seller: steve@symmetrycomputers.com Starts: Aug-04-00 09:14:45 PDT Ends: Aug-07-00 09:14:45 PDT Price: Starts at $26.79 To bid on the item, go to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400900863 Item Description: HP 9895A Dual Disc Drive HP 9895A Dual Disc Drive HP 9895A Dual Disc Drive - This is a Hewlett Packard flexible dual disk drive - some probing found out that this drive is compatible with the HP125 system. It has one 'HPIB' port in the back and a controller bus port. It even powers on! Not much more information could be found on this product, but if you think it could be useful for you or if you're just plain curious go ahead and bid on it! Does not include software, cables, or documentation. 30-Day Warranty. All information we have on this item is included in this description. For more information please contact the manufacturer. Buyer prepays with money order, PayPal, or eBay's BillPoint plus $24.50 for S/H and Insurance in Continental U.S. (excluding Alaska). For other areas contact us for shipping costs. California residents add 7.75% sales tax on final bid. Click here for a complete explanation of our payment and shipping terms. Please read this BEFORE placing a bid. Thank you. BUY WITH CONFIDENCE from an established computer reseller. Click here for a complete explanation of our Warranty Policies. Please read this BEFORE placing a bid. Thank you. Visit our web site at www.symmetrycomputers.com If you need to contact us you may do so at Symmetry Computers .         Copyright © 2000 by Symmetry Computers MAD Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at http://www.ebay.com From ncherry at home.net Thu Aug 3 21:59:39 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Burning PROMs .... References: <398A22FC.5AA2A4B2@home.net> <20000804022414.17367.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <398A319B.C7A17C63@home.net> Eric Smith wrote: > > > the single image into 8 EPROMs (which I have). I'll be using an S4 burner > > but I think I'm going to need to split the files so I can drop the image > > into the EPROMs. Anyone know of a good splitting routine? Remember that > > the EPROMs are 8 bit and the code is 16 or 32 bit (68040). > > The SRecord package from Peter Miller is good for that sort of stuff: > > http://www.canb.auug.org.au/~millerp/srecord.html Cool, Thanks. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Aug 5 12:11:31 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: New finds: HP9825 etc. In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20000803080803.39a70ef4@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.20000803080803.39a70ef4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000805121131.4ed799aa@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:44 PM 8/3/00 -0400, you wrote: >On 2000/08/03 at 8:08am -0500, you wrote: >> Yes, the interfaces are the same but the ROMs are very different. Do >>you have a 9845? > >Yes, and by coincidence it has exactly the interfaces and peripherals >corresponding to the 9825's ROMs. That is odd. What model 9845 do you have? I have several Bs and I'm looking for a C (color) model. > >>Does the 9825 have the >>pull-out system ROM in the side or only a slotted cover? If it has the ROM >>then it's a 9825 A, if it has the slotted cover then it's a B model. > >It does have the side ROM drawer (and is marked 9825A), though it has the >full-travel keyboard (which IMHO is *horrible* -- nothing like the >contactless keys on the 9845). You should be glad that your didn't get the original chicklet keyboard! Your's probably had it originally but it was probably replaced sometime. AFIK ALL A models came with the chicklet keyboards but a lot of them were replaced with full travel keyboards. The HP designers were proud of the chicklet keyboard but it seems that all the users hated it. > >>>Also got a 6800 evaluation board, MEK6800D2, with hex keypad & LED display. >> >> That's cool. The 6800 evaluation boards are rare. That module is >>described in Motorola's MicroProcesor Applications Manual for the 6800. I >>HIGHLY recommend that book if you're interested in the 6800s. > >I don't have that book. While I'm not especially interested in >microprocessors generally, these little boards remind me of the first >machine I owned myself -- although at 512 bytes, this one has *twice* as >much memory. *Luxury*! If you're not too attached to it, I'd like to have it. I have a collection of 6800 stuff. That's the CPU that's used in my Tektronix 4051 and in the old Heathkit trainer that I have. Joe > >-- >Kevin Schoedel >schoedel@kw.igs.net > From jlewczyk at his.com Sat Aug 5 14:27:27 2000 From: jlewczyk at his.com (John Lewczyk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Can one adapt an Apple Lisa Widget drive to use in a Lisa 1? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000805121131.4ed799aa@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <000301bfff13$306fad70$013da8c0@Corellian> I have recently aquired an Apple Lisa Widget drive in ? working condition. Upon examining it and the its schematics, it appears to have the same logical [parallel port] interface that the Profile drives have. I would like to try this drive in a Lisa 1(2), the only Lisa I have, but the Lisa 1(2) does not have the appropriate connectors for a Widget drive. I've never seem a Lisa XL in person, but my guess is that its "parallel" port, being internal, was brought off the motherboard in place of the "second floppy" connector, into a 26 pin female connector that attached to the Widget controller board. That's one connection (J1). The other connection is the power connector (J2), which provides +5,+12,-12, motor +12, motor Gnd, Power OK. This connector is also not present in the Lisa 1(2). I am assuming that these voltages and connector were just added to the wiring harness that connects the power-supply/ video/ motherboard/ softswitch/ floppy together. I don't understand what difference is there between the +12V (J2-2) and +12V Motor (J2-5) is. Can anyone verify these assumptions and questions? I think I can adapt the Lisa 1(2) to use the widget with a bit of wiring. The external parallel can be brought back inside and the Power connector wired up from the existing wiring harness. Of course, I won't make any changes that would not be easily reversable. I have schematics for the Lisa 1 motherboard, but have never seem one for the Lisa 2 motherboard. Having that would go a long way in answering my questions. Anybody have one scanned? Finally, I've read( from Larry Pina's book) that the 1.2amp power supply is barely adequate for the addition of the Widget. I am looking for an 1.8amp supply. Even a broken one that I would try to fix would be acceptable. Anyone got a spare, working or broken to sell? I also need a soft power switch assembly. Thanks, John jlewczyk@his.com From louiss at gate.net Sat Aug 5 16:44:17 2000 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Can one adapt an Apple Lisa Widget drive to use in a Lisa 1? In-Reply-To: <000301bfff13$306fad70$013da8c0@Corellian> Message-ID: <200008052144.RAA159228@flathead.gate.net> Hi John, OK, I can answer most of this. First, your nomenclature. A Lisa 1 has two "twiggy floppies", or in most cases has been converted to use one 400K drive, making it, in effect, a Lisa 2 or 2/5. The only difference between a 2 and a 2/5 is the latter was sold with a Profile external hard drive. The Widget was used in the Lisa 2/10. Since the Widget was internal, and the Profile external, the 2/5 and the 2/10 do not use the identical boards. As you have noted, on the 2/5 the parallel connector is external, on the 2/10 it is internal. Having said that, you can run a Widget off the external connector. It will work fine. I test widgets on a 2/5, using the external connector, and an external power supply borrowed from a ProFile. The power supply wiring is different, as you have noted. What you propose will work. However, please note that widgets require that the cage have an internal fan, and the power supply upgrade. Finally, if you really have a complete Lisa 1 with Twiggy drives, to NOT modify it at all. Just pack it up immediately, and send it to me. I will be happy to send you a Lisa 2 and all the widgets you want in return. And, if you really can't come up with a 1.8 amp power supply, I might be talked into selling one (with the proper incentive.) Louis On Sat, 5 Aug 2000 15:27:27 -0400, John Lewczyk wrote: >I have recently aquired an Apple Lisa Widget drive in ? working condition. >Upon examining it and the its schematics, it appears to have the same >logical [parallel port] interface that the Profile drives have. I would >like to try this drive in a Lisa 1(2), the only Lisa I have, but the Lisa >1(2) does not have the appropriate connectors for a Widget drive. I've >never seem a Lisa XL in person, but my guess is that its "parallel" port, >being internal, was brought off the motherboard in place of the "second >floppy" connector, into a 26 pin female connector that attached to the >Widget controller board. That's one connection (J1). > >The other connection is the power connector (J2), which provides +5,+12,-12, >motor +12, motor Gnd, Power OK. This connector is also not present in the >Lisa 1(2). I am assuming that these voltages and connector were just added >to the wiring harness that connects the power-supply/ video/ motherboard/ >softswitch/ floppy together. I don't understand what difference is there >between the +12V (J2-2) and +12V Motor (J2-5) is. > > >Can anyone verify these assumptions and questions? I think I can adapt the >Lisa 1(2) to use the widget with a bit of wiring. The external parallel can >be brought back inside and the Power connector wired up from the existing >wiring harness. Of course, I won't make any changes that would not be >easily reversable. > > >I have schematics for the Lisa 1 motherboard, but have never seem one for >the Lisa 2 motherboard. Having that would go a long way in answering my >questions. Anybody have one scanned? > > >Finally, I've read( from Larry Pina's book) that the 1.2amp power supply is >barely adequate for the addition of the Widget. I am looking for an 1.8amp >supply. Even a broken one that I would try to fix would be acceptable. >Anyone got a spare, working or broken to sell? I also need a soft power >switch assembly. > >Thanks, > >John > >jlewczyk@his.com > > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Sat Aug 5 23:42:58 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: springfield hamfest goodies . . . and more Message-ID: Hello, Finally found a good Commodore 128 for yours truly there. Is there in our midst a person who might have the cp/m boot disk for one? Or point me in the right direction? I was even given a Sony CPD-1320, so I'm sitting pretty good now. There's an electronic surplus company that is also located there -- I went up to peruse it and found in the front window a complete Rockwell Aim-65 developer, including keybaord, and eprom burner attached. And some sort of off-brand computer with two external style 8" floppy drives. by the name I know it is a 6800 based machine of some sort. I will be calling back there later on to get the straight skinny on that. I'll post the info if any of you might be interested. Kind regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From retro at retrobits.com Sat Aug 5 19:09:31 2000 From: retro at retrobits.com (Earl Evans) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: springfield hamfest goodies . . . and more References: Message-ID: <000e01bfff3a$9884f6a0$6401640a@easystreet.com> Gary, I'd be happy to get you a copy of the CP/M boot disk and utilities/supplementary disk for the C128, latest version they made (May '87, IIRC). If you'd care to give me your address off-list, I'll mail it out. - Earl Earl Evans retro@retrobits.com Enjoy retrocomputing today! Visit the Retrobits web site at http://www.retrobits.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Hildebrand" To: "classcomp mailing list" Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 9:42 PM Subject: springfield hamfest goodies . . . and more > Hello, > > Finally found a good Commodore 128 for yours truly there. Is there in our > midst a person who might have the cp/m boot disk for one? Or point me in > the right direction? > > I was even given a Sony CPD-1320, so I'm sitting pretty good now. > > There's an electronic surplus company that is also located there -- I went > up to peruse it and found in the front window a complete Rockwell Aim-65 > developer, including keybaord, and eprom burner attached. And some sort of > off-brand computer with two external style 8" floppy drives. by the name I > know it is a 6800 based machine of some sort. I will be calling back there > later on to get the straight skinny on that. I'll post the info if any of > you might be interested. > > Kind regards > -- > Gary Hildebrand > Box 6184 > St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 > > 816-662-2612 > or > > ghldbrd@ccp.com > From transit at lerctr.org Sat Aug 5 19:50:31 2000 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: springfield hamfest goodies . . . and more In-Reply-To: <000e01bfff3a$9884f6a0$6401640a@easystreet.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 5 Aug 2000, Earl Evans wrote: > Gary, > > I'd be happy to get you a copy of the CP/M boot disk and > utilities/supplementary disk for the C128, latest version they made (May > '87, IIRC). If you'd care to give me your address off-list, I'll mail it > out. I could use one as well, as I got a C128 not too long ago, complete in box. But the CP/M disk just wouldn't boot (kept getting "Boot Error") From retro at retrobits.com Sat Aug 5 20:46:46 2000 From: retro at retrobits.com (Earl Evans) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: springfield hamfest goodies . . . and more References: Message-ID: <000a01bfff48$2e640be0$6401640a@easystreet.com> No problem! Happy to help a fellow 128-er. Just let me know (off-list) what address to send it to, and I'll send it right off. - Earl Earl Evans retro@retrobits.com Enjoy retrocomputing today! Visit the Retrobits web site at http://www.retrobits.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)" To: Sent: Saturday, August 05, 2000 5:50 PM Subject: Re: springfield hamfest goodies . . . and more > > > On Sat, 5 Aug 2000, Earl Evans wrote: > > > Gary, > > > > I'd be happy to get you a copy of the CP/M boot disk and > > utilities/supplementary disk for the C128, latest version they made (May > > '87, IIRC). If you'd care to give me your address off-list, I'll mail it > > out. > > > I could use one as well, as I got a C128 not too long ago, complete > in box. But the CP/M disk just wouldn't boot (kept getting "Boot Error") > > From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Aug 5 21:16:12 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: New finds: DEC/DSD/MDB References: <39898336.2AD76671@idirect.com> Message-ID: <398CCA6C.ED370449@idirect.com> >Kevin Schoedel wrote: > Jerome Fine wrote: > >If the 11/23 is a dual board, you may have a bit of a problem in the BA23 > >since the BLUE box was designed with boot boards that might not be > >compatible with the BA23. > Because the BA23 has termination, or because it's a 22-bit backplane, or > something else? The bootstrap is an M8012-YA (BDV11) > terminator/bootstrap, and neither it nor the other option cards (M8044-HD > 64Kb, DSD floppy controller, M8043 async) connect the pins for bits 18-21 > (BC1-BF1). The CPU is a dual-width card, and has no apparent revision > marked, so I guess I should assume it is the 18-bit version. Jerome Fine replies: Probably both - because the BA23 already has termination, I do not know if the M8012 will function correctly in a BA23 box. And an 8" floppy from DSD is not a speed demon - well no 8" floppy is a speed demon. Actually, unless you are a PDP-11 hardware hobby person, an 11/23 is not a great CPU to have fun with. And with just a floppy and 64 KBytes, I would rather run PDP-11 software under an emulator on a PC. Mind you, I have a number of M8044 boards to trade if you have something. > All else being equal (i.e. provided it works) I'd prefer to keep the > system in its original enclosure anyway, that is, more or less close to > its previous working configuration. Everyone to their own taste. I am a software junkie, so I do not really appreciate this hardware configuration - rare though it may be. > >> As I found it, the arrangement of cards has gaps, unless the backplane is > >> *really* weird. The backplane itself is MDB model MLSI 40328 -- anyone > >> know the layout? > >If I remember, Transduction used a hex back plane modified to be a Qbus > >interface with a serpentine use of the "extra" slots. But I can't remember > >the order. > For the archives, this backplane is 4x8 and turns out to have the 'usual' > serpentine configuration throughout; i.e. the same arrangement as slots > 5-12 in a BA123. It is 18 bit; pins BC1 - BF1 are not connected. The backplane I am familiar with is a 6 * 9 slot monster. I think that the first 3 slots might be ABCDAB and the other 6 are ABABAB, but I really have no clue at all. Whether it was 18 or 22 bit is also something I forget. > >> The only non-obvious card in the system is an MDB DR11B... is this a > >> parallel interface? > >Probably. MDB boards were usually named by their DEC counterpart. > Seems plausible that it is a 16-bit parallel I/O card, from the 74173s > attached to the headers. Anyone know whether this is DRV11-B compatible > (it is a qbus card, of course), or otherwise have any programming > information for it? From time to time I'm tempted to buy some old PeeCee > just to get a usable parallel port, but I'd much rather use a PDP-11 :-) Well, the software is much easier on the PDP-11 since there is usually adequate documentation. Also, even when the PDP-11 hardware and software was at its peak around 1982, the next generation of boards and software was still compatible with the old programs and OS. With the PC, everything seems to change every other year. Plus, even with the old PDP-11 hardware, it seems to still last longer than PC hardware. And from an I/O point of view, I hear that the interrupts on the PDP-11 are far better than what the PC hardware does. So the only real advantage in using the PC seems to be the speed and the size of the memory and the available disk space. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From richard at idcomm.com Sat Aug 5 21:53:33 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Palasm? References: <39898336.2AD76671@idirect.com> <398CCA6C.ED370449@idirect.com> Message-ID: <001301bfff51$836177a0$0500c0a8@winbook> Since Palasm is not only obsolete but well over 20 years old these days, I'm hoping somebody out there is more knowledgable about it than I. I've recently been pondering the various constructs that it supported and am having a LOT of trouble making it do what its manual claims it routinely does. I'd like to kick this oldie around a bit just to get past the point which served my purposes all these years. There are so many of its features I never used, e.g state machine syntax. I'm trying to get on top of that now, just for grins, but I'd surely like to kick this around with someone who knows it better than I. Any takers? Dick From dpeschel at eskimo.com Sun Aug 6 04:25:10 2000 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 01, 2000 08:24:59 AM Message-ID: <200008060925.CAA07331@eskimo.com> > To plot lines or points in lo-res: > > Points: > > PLOT x,y > > Lines: > > PLOT w,x TO y,z > > w,x,y,z=0-39 You can't do that. You can only do: HLIN x1, x2 AT y or VLIN y1, y2 AT x And if you POKE 49234,1 you will get a full 40x48 screen of graphics. Do POKE 49235,1 to get the four-line text window back. There are a number of other "soft switch" locations. POKE 49236,1 selects graphics page 1 and POKE 49237,1 selects page 2. The last two are most useful in high-res mode, because low-res page 2 is the default starting location for BASIC programs. Incidentally, low-res and text modes use the same memory locations but interpret them differently. So of course there is a text page 2 but you still have to move your program to use it (just as with low-res page 2). > To get into the monitor: > > CALL -151 > > L - list a section of memory (example: 300L) > G - executes instructions (example: 300G) To get out of the monitor: Ctrl-C Return - return to BASIC There are, of course, many other features in the ROM; it's just a matter of digging up the programming info. And (since you have such a late member of the ][ series) there are also features in the hardware, such as double- resolution text, low-res, and high-res modes, that the ROM was never updated to handle. However, you might try PR#3 and see if you get 80-column mode. -- Derek From Jgzabol at aol.com Sun Aug 6 06:13:19 2000 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Palasm? Message-ID: <4e.958105e.26bea24f@aol.com> I have been using PALASM during the last 20 years, and only last year swicthed to Abel. I still consider PALASM one of the best tools around, since it allows me to program at the gate-level, not at a logic level removed by many layers from the actual gate level as more modern tools force you to do. I also have a running copy installed on one of my computers. Just drop any questions you have. Maybe you send me privately your PALASM file, and I look through it ? Regards John G. Zabolitzky From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Aug 6 09:29:23 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: <200008060925.CAA07331@eskimo.com> from Derek Peschel at "Aug 6, 0 02:25:10 am" Message-ID: <200008061429.HAA10388@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > There are, of course, many other features in the ROM; it's just a matter of > digging up the programming info. And (since you have such a late member of > the ][ series) there are also features in the hardware, such as double- > resolution text, low-res, and high-res modes, that the ROM was never updated > to handle. How do you get at these modes? Are they in the IIgs, also? Speaking of which, can you drive the IIgs graphics chip and sound chip, whatever they're called, from Applesoft? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It is the business of the future to be dangerous. -- Hawkwind -------------- From paulrsm at ameritech.net Sun Aug 6 10:20:25 2000 From: paulrsm at ameritech.net (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Apple II FAQ Message-ID: <20000806153951.MHMC624.mailhost.kal.ameritech.net@paulrsm> For those having Apple II computers and little or no documentation: The Csa2 (comp.sys.apple2) Usenet newsgroup Apple II FAQs originate from the Ground Apple II archive, 1997-2000. Ground Apple II Administrator: Steve Nelson ftp://ground.ecn.uiowa.edu/apple2/Faqs/ http://ground.ecn.uiowa.edu/apple2/Faqs/ The Csa2 FAQs may be freely distributed. Two mirrors are: http://home.swbell.net/rubywand/A2FAQs1START.html http://www.grin.net/~cturley/A2.FAQs.and.INFO/CSA2.FAQs/Csa21MAIN1.txt From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Aug 6 11:19:49 2000 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: New finds: HP9825 etc. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000805121131.4ed799aa@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <3.0.1.16.20000803080803.39a70ef4@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.20000803080803.39a70ef4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <4.1.20000806110752.00a8ea30@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 12:11 PM 8/5/00 -0500, Joe said something like: >At 11:44 PM 8/3/00 -0400, you wrote: >>On 2000/08/03 at 8:08am -0500, you wrote: -- snip -- >>It does have the side ROM drawer (and is marked 9825A), though it has the >>full-travel keyboard (which IMHO is *horrible* -- nothing like the >>contactless keys on the 9845). > > You should be glad that your didn't get the original chicklet keyboard! >Your's probably had it originally but it was probably replaced sometime. >AFIK ALL A models came with the chicklet keyboards but a lot of them were >replaced with full travel keyboards. The HP designers were proud of the >chicklet keyboard but it seems that all the users hated it. That's right Joe, on points you make above. The chiclet kbrd was a right pain. On our first 9825A that was purchased for use on a production machine, the 'Continue' key collapsed after quite a few operations. The operator hit that key at least once for linear encoder that was calibrated on that machine. Usually 100-200 encoders per day, five or six days per week, for about three years before that switch gave out. Typically, like our Tony Duell, I set to finding out if I could fix it. Also, production was shut down because of this so there was a second, more important reason ;-) I dismantled the keyboard to pieces and carefully setup the flat spring's curve and soldered the contact to at least temporarily fix it. Back into production. I promptly ordered a replacement keyboard from HP (for $350 as I recall) and received a kit containing a new upper front case section which has the fastening mounts for the display, tape drive and printer and of course the keyboard plus a nice Cherry keyboard. The badge on front said 9825B indicating the case section was simply pulled from the then-built B's inventory to make the retrofit kits. The operators were literally thrilled over the better keystroke action as they had to type serial numbers of the encoder under test plus occasionally other notes for each calibration run. I still have that repaired keyboard plus I eventually ended up with that old 9825"B", nee A. I also eventually got our second 9825T which we put on a second machine that myself and a couple of other engineers built plus all docs, peripherals, accessories, etc. :-) However, during a production day, that old "A" developed a shorted series-pass transistor in its switching PSU board which put ~+18 volts onto the +5 V supply bus. Well, you know what happened next. I recall very well the HP Service Manager down at the old Paramus, NJ Service Center grousing that this happened occasionally and that those %$@*)! designers did not put in a crowbar circuit or other protection to prevent smoking the whole machine. Over $2000 worth of replacement assemblies caused the machine to be junked by the company (no way was it worth it as we had just one calibration machine using a 9825, the other had been 'updated' to one of those new-fangled Zenith Z150 peecees and I could find used 9825T's at that time (~1991) for $1500-$1800). My car became the 'dumpster'. Regarding the comment by someone in this thread (at 8:08 AM, 3 Aug as shown above), what makes the replacement kybd so horrible? Could that have been an early version of a replacement before the Cherry's were used? Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From paulrsm at ameritech.net Sun Aug 6 11:29:14 2000 From: paulrsm at ameritech.net (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 Message-ID: <20000806163121.MROK624.mailhost.kal.ameritech.net@paulrsm> > > There are, of course, many other features in the ROM; it's just a matter of > > digging up the programming info. And (since you have such a late member of > > the ][ series) there are also features in the hardware, such as double- > > resolution text, low-res, and high-res modes, that the ROM was never updated > > to handle. > How do you get at these modes? Are they in the IIgs, also? > > Speaking of which, can you drive the IIgs graphics chip and sound chip, > whatever they're called, from Applesoft? The double-resolution text mode is 80-column mode, and can be turned on with PR#3. This mode is supported by the ROM. The double low-res (twice as wide, not half as wide!) and double hi-res modes are not supported by the ROM. You can write BASIC routines to use them, but it is much faster to use assembly language routines called by BASIC. These modes are also in the Apple IIe and IIc. The IIgs has super-res modes with hardware color fill available. I am not a IIgs programmer (I use mine as a IIe) but there may be ROM routines in the toolbox to support those modes. The same may be true for the IIgs sound chip. I have seen a BASIC program that used the sound chip, but all it did was POKE the data into memory. No Apple II has real support for even the built-in speaker in the ROM, except for the Programmer's Aid #1 option for Integer BASIC which had tone routines. Paul R. Santa-Maria Ann Arbor, Michigan USA paulrsm@ameritech.net From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Aug 6 12:44:58 2000 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: HEY, How do I change where it goes... Message-ID: Need a ppointer to info on changing where the list-server send mail to. I'm moving to ajp166@bellatlantic.net as a DSL hook up. The old address allisonp@world.std.com will still be active for several months though I'd prefer if everyone uses the other. Allison From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Aug 6 13:12:52 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Great Finds this past week and a half Message-ID: <005d01bfffd1$f18164e0$13dab0d0@default> First got a call from a gentleman in Ohio that he had a model 4 TRS 80 he wanted to give me along with some other items after he read the article about me collecting in his local paper there. The machine and other items were here MN with his son. After phone contact with the son I went over to the house and picked up the stuff. It was great a working 64k model 4 with 2 FD that both read fine and tons of business software and games, with some the highlights being Sublogic Flight Simulator, Paddle Pinball, TRSDOS Ver6, Viscalc Ver 02.09.02, LS.Dos upgrade kit to 6.3, pfs:file and report in boxes, TRS-80 Renum Line program, TRSCROSS a utility for IBM PC that reads and writes specific TRS-80 formats, QuikPro + II Automatic program writer, and many more titles on both 51/4 FD (over 55+) and cassettes (over 50+). There were over 20+ manuals with this lot and some them are really cool, like the TRS-80 Pocket Handbook by William Barden Jr. great read. Also got a working DMP100 printer and a VS100 Voice Synthesizer with manual and box it came in when purchased. This unit works with the Model 1, III, and 4. All together the amount of items given to me filled four notebook pages listing the items and sn, pn and other information about each. Other items from this week: 1. Over 20 mousepads and mice for the collection, one mouse I had not seen before was a commodore C04140 date 08/90 has a unusual shape to it. 2. Dynatech Codewriter for the Commodore64. 3. Half a dozen computer buttons for the collection, from intel, drafix, creative lab, and microsoft. 4. Some cartridges for the Atari 2600 5. Some old Burroughs and Sperry notebooks full various spec's 6. Mits 4.1 Boot Loader cassette tape - New unopened 7. Over 25 books to add to the library 8. Apple PowerBooks 100 that needs a little body work but powers up fine and came with tons of extras like ext 3.5 FDD, SCSI cable, leather carrying case, manuals and more. 9. Amiga OS 3.1 in the box with diskettes and manuals but missing the roms. 10. Amiga Dos 1.3 in the box complete with manuals. 11. Sun SPACStation 1 model 147 ServCode 4/60 loaded but does not seem to work, I get nothing on the screen when unit is turned on but the fan works. 12. Tons of cables to sort out and label. 13. SuperGraphix by Xetec mounted on wooden block 14. Epyx Fast Loader for C64 15. APROSPAND 64 by APROTEK 16. Amstrad PPC640 complete and working fine. 17. Many more that I can not list that are 7 to 4 years old. Keep on computing John Keys From rdd at smart.net Sun Aug 6 13:27:44 2000 From: rdd at smart.net (R. D. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Apple II FAQ In-Reply-To: <20000806153951.MHMC624.mailhost.kal.ameritech.net@paulrsm> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Paul R. Santa-Maria wrote: > For those having Apple II computers and little or no documentation: > > The Csa2 (comp.sys.apple2) Usenet newsgroup Apple II FAQs > originate from the Ground Apple II archive, 1997-2000. > Ground Apple II Administrator: Steve Nelson Thanks for posting this! Recently, I became the owner of an Apple-IIe that I got on e-bay for under US$5, complete with diskette drive and monitor, all in working condition. :-) I also bought a Decmate and an Apple IIgs, from different sellers; neither have arrived yet, and it's been weeks (one of the checks was cashed - not sure about the other one yet). :-( So, beware of getting bilked. -- R. D. Davis rdd@perqlogic.com http://www.perqlogic.com/rdd 410-744-4900 From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 6 13:17:08 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: <200008060925.CAA07331@eskimo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Derek Peschel wrote: > > PLOT w,x TO y,z > > > > w,x,y,z=0-39 > > You can't do that. You can only do: > > HLIN x1, x2 AT y > > or > > VLIN y1, y2 AT x Oh yeah. I forgot about that. Then again, I rarely (if ever) did anything in lo-res. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From schoedel at kw.igs.net Sun Aug 6 14:07:46 2000 From: schoedel at kw.igs.net (Kevin Schoedel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: New finds: HP9825 etc. In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000806110752.00a8ea30@206.231.8.2> References: <3.0.1.16.20000803080803.39a70ef4@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.20000803080803.39a70ef4@mailhost.intellistar.net> <4.1.20000806110752.00a8ea30@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: On 2000/08/06 at 12:19pm -0400, Christian Fandt wrote: >However, during a production day, that old "A" developed a shorted >series-pass transistor in its switching PSU board which put ~+18 volts onto >the +5 V supply bus. Well, you know what happened next. I recall very well >the HP Service Manager down at the old Paramus, NJ Service Center grousing >that this happened occasionally and that those %$@*)! designers did not put >in a crowbar circuit or other protection to prevent smoking the whole >machine. Is there a straightforward fix for this? I'm not up to tracing out the supply and developing one myself, but I could follow instructions if someone else has done this already. >Regarding the comment by someone in this thread (at 8:08 AM, 3 Aug as shown >above), what makes the replacement kybd so horrible? The keys tend to bind unless they are pressed exactly in the center and exactly in line with the stroke, and they bottom out hard. >Could that have been >an early version of a replacement before the Cherry's were used? I don't think this one is a *replacement* keyboard -- the date stamped on the keyboard (22 Aug 1979) is earlier than the date on the bottom of the case (5 Feb 1980). There is no obvious sign that the keyboard was made by anyone other than HP; the PCB is marked on the top upper left corner with [(hp)] 88809F REV A 5021-1416 -- Kevin Schoedel schoedel@kw.igs.net From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 6 13:24:49 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Apple II FAQ In-Reply-To: <20000806153951.MHMC624.mailhost.kal.ameritech.net@paulrsm> Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Paul R. Santa-Maria wrote: > For those having Apple II computers and little or no documentation: > > The Csa2 (comp.sys.apple2) Usenet newsgroup Apple II FAQs > originate from the Ground Apple II archive, 1997-2000. > Ground Apple II Administrator: Steve Nelson > > ftp://ground.ecn.uiowa.edu/apple2/Faqs/ > http://ground.ecn.uiowa.edu/apple2/Faqs/ > > The Csa2 FAQs may be freely distributed. This shouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't for a certain complete asshole trying to control distribution of what should be a freely distributable document anyway. Just thought I'd rant :) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 6 13:29:01 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: HEY, How do I change where it goes... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Allison Parent wrote: > Need a ppointer to info on changing where the list-server send mail to. > > I'm moving to ajp166@bellatlantic.net as a DSL hook up. > > The old address allisonp@world.std.com will still be active for several > months though I'd prefer if everyone uses the other. Unsubscribe: mailto:majordomo@classiccmp.org In the body of the message: unsubscribe * you may not have to put your old e-mail address Re-subscribe: mailto:majordomo@classiccmp.org In the body of the message: subscribe Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sun Aug 6 14:58:07 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Great Finds this past week and a half In-Reply-To: <005d01bfffd1$f18164e0$13dab0d0@default> from "John R. Keys Jr." at "Aug 6, 0 01:12:52 pm" Message-ID: <200008061958.MAA11944@stockholm.ptloma.edu> >Dynatech Codewriter for the Commodore64. Always been curious about this title. Is there a way I can get a copy of this from you? I'll delete it after I toy with it -- I'm just interested to see what it was capable of. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It is necessary to have purpose. -- Alice #1, Star Trek "I, Mudd" ---------- From richard at idcomm.com Sun Aug 6 14:56:13 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Apple II FAQ References: Message-ID: <002101bfffe0$607068c0$0500c0a8@winbook> Does anybody have specifics on the data format/modulation used on the Apple IIc external disk drive port? I read that the IIc+ uses an intelligent drive and that suggests that the data appearing on the interface may not be in the usual APPLE-II GCR format. Of course, the IIc+ may have yet another protocol, so the spec's from the IIc+ may not be what I need. The FAQ hardly mentions the IIc, though it did give me enough information to suggest that it would be really useful to understand the workings of that external FD interface. It has power (+12, +5, gnd, -12) and stepping motor drivers right on it. The ol' ][+ never even got that far! Any suggestions? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Sellam Ismail To: Sent: Sunday, August 06, 2000 12:24 PM Subject: Re: Apple II FAQ > On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Paul R. Santa-Maria wrote: > > > For those having Apple II computers and little or no documentation: > > > > The Csa2 (comp.sys.apple2) Usenet newsgroup Apple II FAQs > > originate from the Ground Apple II archive, 1997-2000. > > Ground Apple II Administrator: Steve Nelson > > > > ftp://ground.ecn.uiowa.edu/apple2/Faqs/ > > http://ground.ecn.uiowa.edu/apple2/Faqs/ > > > > The Csa2 FAQs may be freely distributed. > > This shouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't for a certain complete > asshole trying to control distribution of what should be a freely > distributable document anyway. > > Just thought I'd rant :) > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > > From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 6 16:13:16 2000 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: Vax 4000-200 for free, contact address in post Message-ID: <200008062113.RAA06612@world.std.com> Please contact the person listed at the end of this newsgroup post, not me... - - - - - I also have a working VAX 4000-200, 32MB RAM, CMD SCSI disk controller, TU80 tape drive, CXY08 8 port serial and CXY16 16 port serial boards. Rack mounted BA213 chassis, and TU80 is rack mounted too. Cables for CXY boards. I will throw in a couple Micropolis 650MB SCSI drives too. There is a TF86 tape drive that has a problem, may be broken tape header. Extra DELQA ethernet board too. This machine was running when shut down 6 months ago. The catch? You have to pick it up in Las Vegas NV, and no I won't give away just the boards. I would rather it all goes to someone who wants to preserve an old VAX (I got a 4000-90 now, no space for the 4200). Along with the 4000-200 there is another rack mount BA213 with a VAX 3500 CPU (KA650), 32MB 3rd party memory (doesn't work in the 4000-200 but just fine in the 3500), CMD SCSI controller, dual DELQAs, and a TK50. Same deal, it's your's if you haul it off, and I believe I have an RZ58 (980MB) drive for it too. It was running when shut down 6 months ago. Now if someone has a spare 200Mhz CPU or memory card for an Alpha 2100 200/4 (what used to be called the A500MP) I would love to trade. Interested? Boss says give it away or throw it away. Send me an email if you want to drive a truck to Vegas for a quick vacation and get some clean goodies for the trip home. Jack Peacock peacock@simconv.com - - - - - From donm at cts.com Sun Aug 6 18:33:10 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: HEY, How do I change where it goes... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: Does it still require that the request come from the email address involved? - don > On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Allison Parent wrote: > > > Need a ppointer to info on changing where the list-server send mail to. > > > > I'm moving to ajp166@bellatlantic.net as a DSL hook up. > > > > The old address allisonp@world.std.com will still be active for several > > months though I'd prefer if everyone uses the other. > > Unsubscribe: > > mailto:majordomo@classiccmp.org > > In the body of the message: > > unsubscribe > > * you may not have to put your old e-mail address > > Re-subscribe: > > mailto:majordomo@classiccmp.org > > In the body of the message: > > subscribe > > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > > From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Aug 6 19:38:13 2000 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: HEY, How do I change where it goes... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Don Maslin wrote: > On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Does it still require that the request come from the email address > involved? I'm not taken chances as world.std.com is available I'm using that. Allison From mbg at world.std.com Sun Aug 6 20:14:18 2000 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: HEY, How do I change where it goes... Message-ID: <200008070114.VAA19636@world.std.com> Allison, you could always setup a .forward in your world account to your new bellatlantic account... Megan From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Aug 6 20:45:09 2000 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:44 2005 Subject: New finds: HP9825 etc. In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.20000806110752.00a8ea30@206.231.8.2> <3.0.1.16.20000803080803.39a70ef4@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.20000803080803.39a70ef4@mailhost.intellistar.net> <4.1.20000806110752.00a8ea30@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.20000806212337.00ac02e0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 03:07 PM 8/6/00 -0400, Kevin Schoedel said something like: >On 2000/08/06 at 12:19pm -0400, Christian Fandt wrote: >>However, during a production day, that old "A" developed a shorted >>series-pass transistor in its switching PSU board which put ~+18 volts onto >>the +5 V supply bus. Well, you know what happened next. I recall very well >>the HP Service Manager down at the old Paramus, NJ Service Center grousing >>that this happened occasionally and that those %$@*)! designers did not put >>in a crowbar circuit or other protection to prevent smoking the whole >>machine. > >Is there a straightforward fix for this? I'm not up to tracing out the >supply and developing one myself, but I could follow instructions if >someone else has done this already. There is, believe it or not, a "service manual" for the 9825. I had the company buy one back in the mid-80's. Heckuva poor excuse for a service manual, but at least it has the PSU board schematics in it. No other schems, just PSU. I wonder if this was because the PSU had proven to be a fairly unreliable module? I have basically zero spare time anymore it seems (I should be doing one of several rather important things right now instead of typing this, however I'm a bit loyal to the group), but probably the practical solution would be to build a simple crowbar circuit out of an SCR and a few passive components and hang it across the output of that pass transistor. I feel an appropriate time delay fuse should be put inline between the rectifier and pass transistor too. Reason for that is the PC board traces could be fried before the main fuse blows. I could excavate my library for the manual (well, it's _somewhere_ upstairs in that very full room :-), scan the circuit and squirt it out to somebody who's got time to perfect this. Tony? > >>Regarding the comment by someone in this thread (at 8:08 AM, 3 Aug as shown >>above), what makes the replacement kybd so horrible? > >The keys tend to bind unless they are pressed exactly in the center and >exactly in line with the stroke, and they bottom out hard. > >>Could that have been >>an early version of a replacement before the Cherry's were used? > >I don't think this one is a *replacement* keyboard -- the date stamped on >the keyboard (22 Aug 1979) is earlier than the date on the bottom of the >case (5 Feb 1980). There is no obvious sign that the keyboard was made by >anyone other than HP; the PCB is marked on the top upper left corner with > [(hp)] 88809F REV A 5021-1416 Interesting. You said this was an 'A' model? Maybe by the time I had to replace the repaired chicklet keyboard on our old A, Cherrys came into use. I do recall both the Paramus serv. manager and our local CE as exhibiting pleasure at the replacement being a Cherry as if it being Cherry was the tonic to end all ills. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 6 19:58:13 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: New finds: DEC/DSD/MDB In-Reply-To: <398CCA6C.ED370449@idirect.com> from "Jerome Fine" at Aug 5, 0 10:16:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 410 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000807/5d52b1f7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 6 20:03:51 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: New finds: HP9825 etc. In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000806110752.00a8ea30@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Aug 6, 0 12:19:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1357 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000807/c4f66deb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 6 21:23:56 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: New finds: HP9825 etc. In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000806212337.00ac02e0@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Aug 6, 0 09:45:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2130 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000807/4c4af1ff/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 7 00:44:33 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Radio Shack, no really In-Reply-To: <200008040032.RAA31554@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200008040020.TAA29967@caesar.cs.umn.edu> from "Lawrence LeMay" at Aug 03, 2000 07:20:35 PM Message-ID: I have plenty of coax ethernet cards, a couple hands full of connectors, and after TRW a bunch of RG58 coax, but no luck finding a crimping tool. Just because it was next to a place I needed to stop at anyway I checked Radio Shack, $14.99, cheapest price for a "ok" quality tool, rebadged Philmore from the looks of it, but with a die for the pin and two sizes of hex crimp. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 7 02:19:05 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: 3 Days in San Jose, hits/pits In-Reply-To: References: <200008040032.RAA31554@shell1.aracnet.com> <200008040020.TAA29967@caesar.cs.umn.edu> from "Lawrence LeMay" at Aug 03, 2000 07:20:35 PM Message-ID: After considerable work/travel snafu last Tuesday my son and I drove up to Palo Alto joining my wife who flew up for a class later that same day. While she learned about the synergy of management, the boys roamed the town. 100% of our mornings were snafued, and I left my notes from planning a trip 3 weeks earlier at home, so we visited nobody, and moved around with no efficiency. First stop was Bermans on Tuesday afternoon, but too late they were already closed. Problems at their web site kept me from bidding in the morning before we left Orange, Ca., and we didn't get our laptop on the net until Wednesday (at $300/night the Holiday Inn included a free Nokia wireless PCMCIA card to access the net with). Wednesday we made a big loop. ES Electronic Solutions on Brokaw, not too exciting. Too well organized (shelves of cardboard bins with contents marked) and fully retail priced stuff. I bought a few coax crimp connectors from the clearance bin, and thats it. Some other stuff I was curious about, but time and uncertainty made me skip them. Alltronics, just around the corner on Zanker. I get their catalog, and it reflects the store, old style electronics surplus joint combined with just enough new stuff to keep people coming in. I found a box of Apple II/PC joysticks and bought all the A2 compatible ones, but mostly it was like the first place. Bermans, around the corner on Trimble, no place to park. Missing the bidding Tuesday took the point out of a visit, but it was good to eyeball the place anyway. The lady behind the window wouldn't give me any specific information on final bid amounts, but did tell me no lots sold for less than $25, which was too much IMNSHO. RA, on Walsh east of Layfette. Nice BIG warehouse of junk electronics, but computer stuff was just incidental. I found a box of junk connectix cameras, an old HP 486/25 with a 10/100 card, and a SCSI 3.5" optical drive in a external case, but they wanted to keep it more than I wanted to put it in my too full of luggage trunk. Thursday we headed to the Childrens Discovery Museum, and my son at 9 still had a good time, but its most likely his last trip. Next time the technology museum instead I think. On the way back to Palo Alto I spotted the HSC sign... HSC, off the central expressway, no idea how I got to it. Very much like the first two places, too tidy, too retail. This isn't really that bad, I mean if I lived in the area and needed something between swapmeet times I just might head over to one of these places to get that needed item, but nothing got me excited during the visit. Some prices were comically high, but some were OK if you needed the item. Big collection of data books to read with free coffee over in the corner too. General trip notes, WOW have prices gone up. Gas was $2.19/gal, which is about $0.40 higher than Orange, CA, food prices were also higher, even in supermarkets on some items (bottled water, but not soda). Rooms were outrageous, we paid $300/night staying at the Holiday Inn Crowne Plaza (very nice, but an older work in progress), and MUCH worse a rathole (beatup old motel/apt on its first leg of fix up) on the east side of San Jose called the Whitehouse Inn was $102 when a page at 7PM forced us to stay Thursday night. Much better rooms at slightly better prices were available earlier in the day, but by 6PM they were gone. From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Aug 7 03:51:13 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 Message-ID: <00Aug7.095117bst.46091@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> There's a question - since I can't get to the FAQs ATM can anyone tell me which Mac monitor I can use with the ][GS? And the ][c+ for that matter...... > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul R. Santa-Maria [mailto:paulrsm@ameritech.net] > Sent: 06 August 2000 18:28 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 > > > > > There are, of course, many other features in the ROM; it's just a > matter of > > > digging up the programming info. And (since you have such a late > member of > > > the ][ series) there are also features in the hardware, > such as double- > > > resolution text, low-res, and high-res modes, that the > ROM was never > updated > > > to handle. > > How do you get at these modes? Are they in the IIgs, also? > > > > Speaking of which, can you drive the IIgs graphics chip and > sound chip, > > whatever they're called, from Applesoft? > > The double-resolution text mode is 80-column mode, and can be > turned on > with PR#3. This mode is supported by the ROM. > > The double low-res (twice as wide, not half as wide!) and > double hi-res > modes are not supported by the ROM. You can write BASIC > routines to use > them, but it is much faster to use assembly language routines > called by > BASIC. These modes are also in the Apple IIe and IIc. > > The IIgs has super-res modes with hardware color fill > available. I am not > a IIgs programmer (I use mine as a IIe) but there may be ROM > routines in > the toolbox to support those modes. The same may be true for the IIgs > sound chip. I have seen a BASIC program that used the sound > chip, but all > it did was POKE the data into memory. > > No Apple II has real support for even the built-in speaker in the ROM, > except for the Programmer's Aid #1 option for Integer BASIC > which had tone > routines. > > Paul R. Santa-Maria > Ann Arbor, Michigan USA > paulrsm@ameritech.net > From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Aug 7 03:57:17 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Great Finds this past week and a half Message-ID: <00Aug7.095719bst.46091@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> John didst scribe: > First got a call from a gentleman in Ohio that he had a model 4 TRS 80 > he wanted to give me along with some other items after he read the > article about me collecting in his local paper there. The machine and > other items were here MN with his son. After phone contact > with the son How did you manage to get in the local paper? That's a great form of advertising.... Things I picked up this weekend: Adman Grandstand 5000 Pong, boxed Adman Grandstand SD070 cart pong, boxed Adman Grandstand VEC (aka Fairchild Channel F II), boxed Micro Genius IQ501 (Super Famicom clone), boxed 2 boxed Atari 2600jrs, with a shedload of games Boxed Grandstand Astro Wars tabletop half a dozen Vic-20 carts Issue 2 Spectrum in DK'Tronics keyboard enclosure Not bad for ukp25! From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Aug 7 04:02:43 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple II FAQ Message-ID: <00Aug7.100243bst.46091@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> I'm full of questions this morning :) Speaking of external floppies, can I use a Mac 800K external on the ][GS? I really want to get it running this week if I get the chance, but its driveless ATM. a > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Erlacher [mailto:richard@idcomm.com] > Sent: 06 August 2000 21:21 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Apple II FAQ > > > Does anybody have specifics on the data format/modulation > used on the Apple > IIc external disk drive port? I read that the IIc+ uses an > intelligent > drive and that suggests that the data appearing on the > interface may not be > in the usual APPLE-II GCR format. Of course, the IIc+ may > have yet another > protocol, so the spec's from the IIc+ may not be what I need. > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 7 05:13:26 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: <00Aug7.095117bst.46091@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: >There's a question - since I can't get to the FAQs ATM can anyone tell me >which Mac monitor I can use with the ][GS? And the ][c+ for that Thats an easy one, none of the mac monitors work on the II series. A TV monitor can be used, or a regular TV if you have a modulator. There was also a Apple Color RGB monitor that worked specifically with the Apple IIgs and I think the IIc/c+. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Aug 7 08:45:04 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Aug 7, 0 02:13:26 am" Message-ID: <200008071345.GAA08178@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >There's a question - since I can't get to the FAQs ATM can anyone tell me > >which Mac monitor I can use with the ][GS? And the ][c+ for that > > Thats an easy one, none of the mac monitors work on the II series. A TV > monitor can be used, or a regular TV if you have a modulator. There was > also a Apple Color RGB monitor that worked specifically with the Apple IIgs > and I think the IIc/c+. Naturally, I use a Commodore monitor with mine if an Apple one isn't available. The Commodore 1702 is the world's hardiest monitor, and the 1084 the most versatile. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- What use is magic if it can't save a unicorn? -- Beagle, "The Last Unicorn" From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Aug 7 09:10:15 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: 3 Days in San Jose, hits/pits In-Reply-To: References: <200008040032.RAA31554@shell1.aracnet.com> <200008040020.TAA29967@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000807071015.00969740@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 23:19 06-08-2000 -0800, Mike Ford wrote: >ES Electronic Solutions on Brokaw, not too exciting. Too well organized >(shelves of cardboard bins with contents marked) and fully retail priced >stuff. I bought a few coax crimp connectors from the clearance bin, and Huh? Excess Solutions is one of the best possible places for small parts and oddities like rack slides. I've shopped at them frequently, and would not call many of their prices anywhere near "fully retail." I'm sorry you didn't find them that helpful. >enough new stuff to keep people coming in. I found a box of Apple II/PC >joysticks and bought all the A2 compatible ones, but mostly it was like the >first place. There I will agree. His test gear prices are, for the most part, way too high. >RA, on Walsh east of Layfette. Nice BIG warehouse of junk electronics, but >computer stuff was just incidental. I found a box of junk connectix RA is mainly industrial stuff. I got a good deal on a pair of HP power supplies when I was there in July, but they've been (unfortunately) thoroughly contaminated by E-pay for the most part. They have a guy who cherry-picks through their test gear, and weeds out the better stuff for auction. >HSC, off the central expressway, no idea how I got to it. Very much like >the first two places, too tidy, too retail. This isn't really that bad, I >nothing got me excited during the visit. Some prices were comically high, >but some were OK if you needed the item. Big collection of data books to You must have spotted the same stripped-down/overpriced Compaq servers that I saw. ;-) HSC has a horrid habit of senseless cherry-picking, and those servers were a great example. The morons in the warehouse stripped out the CPU boards, bagged 'em, and (over)priced them separately from the already-overpriced cases. As for their test gear, don't even get me started. Do you know they've had much of the same stuff in their as-is test gear section for at least three, maybe as long as four years, all because they just won't lower the prices? As for gas, food, and hotel rates, I'm a little surprised. Gas should have come down a bit by now. Food's always been expensive. I'm stunned that any Holiday Inn would be able to get that kind of rate for any sort of room. I'm deeply grateful that I have relatives to stay with during my scrounge trips. I'm sorry you didn't get a chance to go farther north, up into San Leandro, and visit Quinn Electronics. They're still very much a surplus store in the truest sense of the word. Gather a pile, bring it up front, and haggle on a price. I do hope your trip held enough hits to make it worth running over the pits. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From transit at lerctr.org Mon Aug 7 10:58:19 2000 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Commodore 1084 (was: Re: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: <200008071345.GAA08178@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Naturally, I use a Commodore monitor with mine if an Apple one isn't > available. The Commodore 1702 is the world's hardiest monitor, and the > 1084 the most versatile. I have a 1084 that I switch between an Amiga 1000 and either an Apple IIe or a TI 99/4A, using the digital/composite switch... From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Aug 7 11:46:25 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: An alternative to UPS In-Reply-To: References: <200007272141.QAA18442@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <398F0401.25831.ED51ECE@localhost> > > I'm almost ready to ship a bunch of floppy disks, but I dont see how > > they qualify under book rate, and I don't know that I will be able > > to convince MY local post office... > of medical information, and computer-readable media. Advertising > restrictions apply. > Packages must measure 108 inches or less in combined length and girth. > Mark each package "Special Standard Mail" in the postage area. > There seems to be categories like: USPS: Printed matter is defined as “paper on which words, letters, characters, figures, or images (or any combination thereof) not having the character of a bill or statement of account, or of actual or personal correspondence, have been reproduced by any process other than handwriting or typewriting.” Which is basicly a definition more or less directly taken from the international agreements on postal services. Basicly Film/Photography or other Data Storage Media (BTW: Punch Tape and Cards are named explicit) are _NOT_ part of this definition (of the USPS), but if they are only a minor amount, and part of the major Material (read disks inside a manual), the PO may or may not accept it. > Express > First Class/Priority > Standard Mail (a & b) - the "b" version the 4th class we know > Bound Printed Matter > Special Standard Mail & Library Mail At least for oversees shipment there's another 'book' class, the so called M-Bag. To be send as M-Bag (you don't have to use a real bag, althou it's still possible) you just pack all your 'Printed Matter' (Official Term) in one single container and attach a special M-Bag tag (PS Tag 158, available at the post office). And you get _incredible_ low rates: M-Bag, Surface to Europe is just USD 1.45 per pound, while regualr printed matter/small packets is about ~4.50. Well, Surface may take up to 6 weeks (average 2-3) until Europe, but we are not talking about high priority stuff - the actuality of our kind of books isn't measured in days or weeks or even month' :) I assume that they offer similar rates within the US. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From transit at lerctr.org Mon Aug 7 12:04:07 2000 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Computer collecting/preservation article in today's LA Times In-Reply-To: Message-ID: http://www.latimes.com/news/front/20000807/t000073831.html From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Aug 7 12:33:06 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple II FAQ In-Reply-To: References: <20000806153951.MHMC624.mailhost.kal.ameritech.net@paulrsm> Message-ID: <398EBA92.24185.6695928@localhost> > On Sun, 6 Aug 2000, Paul R. Santa-Maria wrote: > > > For those having Apple II computers and little or no documentation: > > > > The Csa2 (comp.sys.apple2) Usenet newsgroup Apple II FAQs > > originate from the Ground Apple II archive, 1997-2000. > > Ground Apple II Administrator: Steve Nelson > > > > ftp://ground.ecn.uiowa.edu/apple2/Faqs/ > > http://ground.ecn.uiowa.edu/apple2/Faqs/ > > > > The Csa2 FAQs may be freely distributed. > > This shouldn't even be an issue if it wasn't for a certain complete > asshole trying to control distribution of what should be a freely > distributable document anyway. > > Just thought I'd rant :) > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue > and Danger > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Unbelievably, after a hiatus of about a year, the same old crap that has torn apart the A2 newsgroup for years has started again. The factions are even named - the Turlettes, based on Tom Turleys efforts to free up abandonware, and the Vogons, who seem like the same old Delphi-based flamers. Seems like something from a bad sci-fi novel. ciao larry lgwalker@look.ca walkers@altavista.net bigwalk@xoommail.com From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Aug 7 12:33:06 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: <200008071345.GAA08178@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Mike Ford at "Aug 7, 0 02:13:26 am" Message-ID: <398EBA92.21134.669597B@localhost> > > Thats an easy one, none of the mac monitors work on the II series. A > > TV monitor can be used, or a regular TV if you have a modulator. > > There was also a Apple Color RGB monitor that worked specifically > > with the Apple IIgs and I think the IIc/c+. > > Naturally, I use a Commodore monitor with mine if an Apple one isn't > available. The Commodore 1702 is the world's hardiest monitor, and the > 1084 the most versatile. > You gotta love those Commodore monitors. I have 2 1702s , 2 different model 1802s and a 2002. Unfortunately no 1084 or more desireably a 1084S. I use mine for most of my different home system needs and with a VCR they make a nice TV. Why do you consider the 1084 the most versatile ? I had thought they could only be used on an Amiga. My 2002 has the Video-Chroma-Audio RCA jacks and 9pin RGB inputs. It also has a digital Pos-Neg and analogue switch. What was the dig.-neg. position used on ? ciao larry lgwalker@look.ca walkers@altavista.net bigwalk@xoommail.com From richard at idcomm.com Mon Aug 7 13:02:17 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details References: Message-ID: <003701c00099$a10c2d60$0500c0a8@winbook> While there seems to be a fair amount of information about the older apples, i.e. ][, ][+, and the IIc+, I've been unable to find any menaingful information on the web about the plain-old IIc. It has an external connector to a floppy disk drive, but I've found no information about the drive itself. The IIc+ has an external "intelligent" drive, and I'd like to know what that means, in this case, not to mention that I'd like to know about the "intelligent" hard disk that attaches to the IIc+ via that same connector, though perhaps not using the same protocol. There's also little definitive information about the memory usage for I/O and how (and how closely) they emulated the ][+ slot usage. They've apparently memory mapped the keyboard, so I would also like to know where in the memory map the keyboard lives. I'm considering cutting a hole in the side of the box to accomodate some sort of I/O channel. I understand that there was an expander available from a third party, but have little information about that. The slot I'd make in the box would accomodate a 40-pin, or perhaps 50-pin inline cable connector. Since I'd prefer to make an internally buffered I/O channel as opposed, simply, to bringing out the CPU's signals, it would be useful to have some information. Any suggestions? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) To: Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 11:04 AM Subject: Computer collecting/preservation article in today's LA Times > > http://www.latimes.com/news/front/20000807/t000073831.html > > From transit at lerctr.org Mon Aug 7 13:23:17 2000 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Commodore monitors (was: Re: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: <398EBA92.21134.669597B@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Why do you consider the 1084 the most versatile ? I had > thought they could only be used on an Amiga. No, they have composite input and can accept PC graphics (the one that uses 9-pins...CGA definitely, EGA as well???) Definitely not VGA, though, that used 15 pins and a different sync rate that the 1084 cannot handle. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Aug 7 13:48:39 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Commodore monitors (was Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3) In-Reply-To: <398EBA92.21134.669597B@localhost> from Lawrence Walker at "Aug 7, 0 01:33:06 pm" Message-ID: <200008071848.LAA13376@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > You gotta love those Commodore monitors. I have 2 1702s , 2 > different model 1802s and a 2002. Unfortunately no 1084 or more > desireably a 1084S. I use mine for most of my different home > system needs and with a VCR they make a nice TV. That's exactly what my buddy used his spare 1702 for; when it wasn't connected to his SX-64, he watched TV on it. :-) My spare 1702 is usually connected to the Tomy Tutor. I have another 1702 plugged into a 64, a 1902 plugged into two 128s (one into the RGB input and one into the composite), and a 1084S. > Why do you consider the 1084 the most versatile ? I had > thought they could only be used on an Amiga. No, they take composite as well and a crapload of video modes. My only complaint with the 1084 is that the controls are very inconveniently placed; if you switch video modes a lot like I do with my 1902 and the two 128s, the front control panel of the 1902 is much nicer rather then screwing around with the settings in the back. > My 2002 has the Video-Chroma-Audio RCA jacks and > 9pin RGB inputs. It also has a digital Pos-Neg and analogue > switch. What was the dig.-neg. position used on ? Dunno -- the 1902s have that also. The only Commodore monitor I dislike is the 1802. It came two flavours: the black variety decked out in 264/Plus/4 style (a.k.a. the CM-141 or the 1703) and the white variety that also does monochrome RGBI (simply by hooking up the RGBI luminance pin into the composite luma). I had the CM-141 and it failed within a few months; I've heard similar complaints about it when Commodore rebadged it as the 1802, and then when they introduced the white model. You must be lucky to have yours still working. :-P Just to be complete, there's a 1402 green-screen which was intended for the Commodore PC clones, I believe, and the 1701, which resembles a 1702 and is also a straightforward composite monitor. I've also heard of a 1202, and of course, there's the famous 1080 and 1941 monitors as well. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Since we're all here, we must not be all there. -- Bob "Mountain" Beck ----- From transit at lerctr.org Mon Aug 7 13:56:00 2000 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple II FAQ In-Reply-To: <398EBA92.24185.6695928@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Unbelievably, after a hiatus of about a year, the same old crap that > has torn apart the A2 newsgroup for years has started again. Did it ever totally go away? Or did it bubble under the surface, like the animosity between two warring nations during "peace negotiations"... > The factions are even named - the Turlettes, based on Tom > Turleys efforts to free up abandonware, and the Vogons, who seem > like the same old Delphi-based flamers. > Seems like something from a bad sci-fi novel. Like someone said, I don't see any of the non-Apple II communities up in arms about it. Atari, Commodore, TRS-80? They have their online "warez shoebox" archives as well. But I don't hear about any fights over in those newsgroups! From foo at siconic.com Mon Aug 7 13:24:41 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple II FAQ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) wrote: > Like someone said, I don't see any of the non-Apple II communities up in > arms about it. Atari, Commodore, TRS-80? They have their online "warez > shoebox" archives as well. But I don't hear about any fights over in those > newsgroups! And all this time I always thought the Apple ][ users were smarter than the others. It's like they're fighting over a dried up river bed. The water has moved on folks. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Mon Aug 7 14:28:49 2000 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Vic-20 problems Message-ID: <33754446@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1100 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000807/40f5ec8a/attachment.bin From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Aug 7 14:35:02 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details In-Reply-To: <003701c00099$a10c2d60$0500c0a8@winbook> (richard@idcomm.com) References: <003701c00099$a10c2d60$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <20000807193502.7247.qmail@brouhaha.com> > While there seems to be a fair amount of information about the older apples, > i.e. ][, ][+, and the IIc+, I've been unable to find any menaingful > information on the web about the plain-old IIc. It has an external > connector to a floppy disk drive, but I've found no information about the > drive itself. The IIc+ has an external "intelligent" drive, and I'd like to > know what that means, in this case, not to mention that I'd like to know > about the "intelligent" hard disk that attaches to the IIc+ via that same > connector, though perhaps not using the same protocol. AFAIK, the IIc+ has the internal equivalent of a UniDisk 3.5, which was a "normal" Apple 800K mechanism with a microprocessor-based daughterboard added. It communicates with the IIc through a packet protocol, which is called SmartPort. However, the actual disk controller hardware of the IIc+ is just the IWM chip, which is a slightly fancier single-chip version of Woz's original disk controller. The only "intelligent hard drive" that Apple made for hooking up to floppy disk ports on their computers was the HD20. (Not the HD20-SC, which is SCSI.) The HD20 is only supported on Macintoshes, and it's protocol is NOT the same as SmartPort. I don't know any technical reason why it wouldn't be possible to write a driver to use the HD20 on the IIc+, but I haven't heard of anyone doing it. > There's also little definitive information about the memory usage for I/O > and how (and how closely) they emulated the ][+ slot usage. They've > apparently memory mapped the keyboard, so I would also like to know where in > the memory map the keyboard lives. AFAIK, the keyboard is encoded at $C000 and $C010, just like any other Apple II. The shift and option keys might be wired to the extra button inputs, just like the old "shift key mod" people did on earlier Apples. > I'm considering cutting a hole in the side of the box to accomodate some > sort of I/O channel. I understand that there was an expander available from > a third party, but have little information about that. The slot I'd make in > the box would accomodate a 40-pin, or perhaps 50-pin inline cable connector. > Since I'd prefer to make an internally buffered I/O channel as opposed, > simply, to bringing out the CPU's signals, it would be useful to have some > information. > > Any suggestions? Well, my main suggestion would be that if you're trying to accomplish something *practical*, you should just use a late-model laptop computer. But if you're just doing this for fun, more power to you! From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Aug 7 14:40:28 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple II FAQ In-Reply-To: <00Aug7.100243bst.46091@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> (message from Adrian Graham on Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:02:43 +0100) References: <00Aug7.100243bst.46091@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <20000807194028.7448.qmail@brouhaha.com> Adrian wrote: > Speaking of external floppies, can I use a Mac 800K external on the ][GS? I > really want to get it running this week if I get the chance, but its > driveless ATM. I think that works. The older Mac 800K external drives, in the very slim beige case, don't have a pass-through connector, so they have to be last in the chain, which means IIRC that you can't combine them with 5.25-inch drives, since the 5.25 inch drives must follow any 3.5-inch drives. The newer Apple 3.5 Drive has a pass-through connector. The Apple FDHD or Superdrive will work just like an Apple 3.5 drive, but the IIgs disk controller doesn't support the 1440K mode. Apple sold a separate "Apple Universal Disk Controller" (or some such thing) that could support 1440K mode. The Apple UniDisk 3.5 should also work, but it is less optimal. It has a built-in smart controller, but because it's too smart (or not smart enough), the software has to poll it about once a second, and it makes noise every time this happens. Note that the Apple II models other than the IIgs cannot support any 3.5-inch disks other then the UniDisk 3.5 unless you use a suitable controller card. The Disk II controller card only supports 5.25-inch disks. From owad at applefritter.com Mon Aug 7 15:46:18 2000 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: SAIC RSC-1x (MOCC) Portable Workstation Message-ID: <200008071949.MAA03979@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> I purchased an interesting system at the Timonium Hamfest last weekend. It's a SparcStation IPX, refitted to a military case. I've put some pictures up at . It consists of the computer itself and an expansion chassis that latches onto the bottom of the case. Right now, I don't have the machine running. The power supply I got with it is a LAMBDA, 24VDC, 10.5 A. I don't have a military connector, so I've been sticking the wires onto the pins. I managed to get the system to power on. It gives a splash screen reading "Tech-Source Inc." followed by a line I didn't think to write down before it started having problems. At the next spring it tells me a bit about itself: SparcStation IPX, Keyboard Present ROM Rev. 2.9, 64 MB memory installed, Serial #2219226 Ethernet address 8:0:20:1a:c:28, Host ID: 5721dcda And informs be that it can't boot off the hard drive (the seller told me its been wiped clean). Just a few minutes ago the power supply apparently gave out. I had the machine powered on and was copying down the above information when it seemingly powered off and the screen started flickering on and off. I'm not at all familiar with Sparcs, and I really don't know much about power supplies either. Does this strike the anybody as a faulty power supply connection, or something else? The expansion chassis needs its own power, so unless the power supply I have is powerful enough to power both (opinions?) I'm going to need a second. I need to get the expansion chassis up and running as it has the CD-ROM drive (along with a second hard drive and a tape drive) in it which I need to install the operating system. Does anybody have any suggestions regarding getting this system running? Know where I can find some decent power supplies that will work? Ideally with the three-prong military connectors? Thanks for the info. Tom Owad From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Aug 7 15:26:46 2000 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details Message-ID: <200008072027.PAA97533@opal.tseinc.com> In a message dated Mon, 7 Aug 2000 2:19:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Richard Erlacher" writes: > While there seems to be a fair amount of information about the older apples, > i.e. ][, ][+, and the IIc+, I've been unable to find any menaingful > information on the web about the plain-old IIc. It has an external > connector to a floppy disk drive, but I've found no information about the > drive itself. The IIc+ has an external "intelligent" drive, and I'd like to > know what that means, in this case, not to mention that I'd like to know > about the "intelligent" hard disk that attaches to the IIc+ via that same > connector, though perhaps not using the same protocol. > > There's also little definitive information about the memory usage for I/O > and how (and how closely) they emulated the ][+ slot usage. They've > apparently memory mapped the keyboard, so I would also like to know where in > the memory map the keyboard lives. > > I'm considering cutting a hole in the side of the box to accomodate some > sort of I/O channel. I understand that there was an expander available from > a third party, but have little information about that. The slot I'd make in > the box would accomodate a 40-pin, or perhaps 50-pin inline cable connector. > Since I'd prefer to make an internally buffered I/O channel as opposed, > simply, to bringing out the CPU's signals, it would be useful to have some > information. > > Any suggestions? > > Dick > sounds like what you really want is a laser128. it's 99% apple compatible (the 1% was the apple version of aol which wouldnt connect right) and it also has an i/o connector on the left side which is really just a regular old slot mapped to slot5 IIRC. I ran a disk ][ controller off there for a total of 3 drives. any other card *should* work in the slot also. From richard at idcomm.com Mon Aug 7 16:58:07 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details References: <003701c00099$a10c2d60$0500c0a8@winbook> <20000807193502.7247.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <003f01c000ba$92fc4fe0$0500c0a8@winbook> Please see embedded remarks below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Smith To: Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 1:35 PM Subject: Re: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details > > While there seems to be a fair amount of information about the older apples, > > connector, though perhaps not using the same protocol. > > AFAIK, the IIc+ has the internal equivalent of a UniDisk 3.5, which was a > "normal" Apple 800K mechanism with a microprocessor-based daughterboard > added. It communicates with the IIc through a packet protocol, which is > called SmartPort. However, the actual disk controller hardware of the IIc+ > is just the IWM chip, which is a slightly fancier single-chip version of > Woz's original disk controller. > This is exactly what I meant in my original remark. There's information everywhere about what the IIc doesn't have. This reference to the external FDC connector is essentially the same as what's on the Iowa U. site, in that it refers to the IIc+, and the IIe, but says little about the IIc. I'm not interested in the IIc+ (note the PLUS), but rather in what's in the normal IIc (no PLUS!). The IIc+ is apparently an entirely different machine, having twice the processor speed, twice the memory, additional features, etc. I have a IIc which was given to me as a token payment for something potentially useful (which the IIc apparently wasn't) and recently took on a challenge to get useful work out of a post ][+ Apple product. This arose out of my argument that one can get useful work out of the $5 computers available at the thrift stores, etc. Now, I've little cause to believe that useful work from an apple product is achievable, since useful work is limited for purposes of this challenge to things that happen as a direct result of the actions inside and propagating thence outward from the Apple box not to be accomplished by some other device. If it will turn on/turn off a relay, that's potentially useful, so it qualifies. It has to do this under program control, however, so knowing it's possible to do that isn't enough. > > The only "intelligent hard drive" that Apple made for hooking up to floppy ... ... > of anyone doing it. > Yes, I've got one of the HD20's lying about somewhere, though I've taken the drive out of the box, since the box is useful for packaging. The drive may be of some use in a CP/M context some day. > My question would be whether the IIc (not the IIc+) can talk to an external device by way of the channel used to talk to its external drive(s) in the same way a IIc+ does it. This would presuppose that the data is not manipulated in to its encoded format until it's at the peripheral, since there are plural peripheral devices, not all the same. I've seen discussions asserting that's the case, and others asserting not, so I'm no better informed than previously. One question, then, begging definitive answer is, "What protocol does the IIc use when communicating via its external drive connector?" Judging from what I got from the U of IOWA site, it has several supplies, four stepper driver phases, probably controlled by software, and a couple of control signals that are probably also controlled by software. If there were a reasonable way to seize control of the individual bits that control these babies, this thing becomes a potential powerhouse. That's particularly true if there's some protocol in place that sends unmodulated data to the outside world, say, in some external-intelligence-dependent format that could be deciphered without having to unmodulate the Apple-style GCR code normally found on their controllers. It seems as though there are enough signals to do the job if one could just get control of them. That requires information not commonly published on the web. If there's an easy way to get that info, I'd like to do that. > > > There's also little definitive information about the memory usage for I/O > > and how (and how closely) they emulated the ][+ slot usage. They've > > apparently memory mapped the keyboard, so I would also like to know where in > > the memory map the keyboard lives. > > AFAIK, the keyboard is encoded at $C000 and $C010, just like any other > Apple II. The shift and option keys might be wired to the extra button > inputs, just like the old "shift key mod" people did on earlier Apples. > > > I'm considering cutting a hole in the side of the box to accomodate some > > sort of I/O channel. I understand that there was an expander available from > > a third party, but have little information about that. The slot I'd make in > > the box would accomodate a 40-pin, or perhaps 50-pin inline cable connector. > > Since I'd prefer to make an internally buffered I/O channel as opposed, > > simply, to bringing out the CPU's signals, it would be useful to have some > > information. > > > > Any suggestions? > > Well, my main suggestion would be that if you're trying to accomplish > something *practical*, you should just use a late-model laptop computer. > But if you're just doing this for fun, more power to you! > Well, the fact is that "late-model" laptops don't have much power available, while the IIc, with it's "brick" connecting to the mains, does have that potential. That way you don't have to have yet another power supply to accomplish the "useful work" that's being so evasive here. Yes, I've used the EPP built into most notebooks to generate control signals, but there's no power tap on the typical notebook. What's more, this one (the one I'm using now) only runs for about 40 minutes on batteries if the NIC and modem are plugged in. (the PC-cards are power-hungry!) That in itself rules out trying to extract work by means of the PC-card slots, though I've considered it. As I often do, I've allowed my alligator mouth to overload my hummingbird other end so I can't easily produce what I said I would. Now, given that there's power on the floppy port, I'd only need one bit of control, but I'd rather have the whole thing at my disposal, given it's not being used for anything helpful. Is the necessary information around somewhere that you know of? Is is sufficiently complete and detailed that I can rely on it to drive those stepper phases and unscramble the data that may have to be led to believe it's on its way to a drive? Is there an alternate path to the data lines to/from the external drive so it can be induced to contain unencoded data? If the info is available, it's not inconceivable that one could packetize communication with the outside world via an encoded disk interface. It's just a lot of work and if it leads nowhere, it's not worth the effort. If the data's all there, however, it would make a highly interesting project. From richard at idcomm.com Mon Aug 7 17:08:41 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details References: <200008072027.PAA97533@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <004501c000bc$0c964440$0500c0a8@winbook> please see embedded remarks below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 2:26 PM Subject: Re: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details > In a message dated Mon, 7 Aug 2000 2:19:10 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Richard Erlacher" writes: > > > While there seems to be a fair amount of information about the older apples, > > > > simply, to bringing out the CPU's signals, it would be useful to have some > > information. > > > > Any suggestions? > > > > Dick > > > sounds like what you really want is a laser128. it's 99% apple compatible (the 1% was the apple version of aol which wouldnt connect right) and it also has an i/o connector on the left side which is really just a regular old slot mapped to slot5 IIRC. I ran a disk ][ controller off there for a total of 3 drives. any other card *should* work in the slot also. > > Well, NO! That's not what I want. The point is to do something useful with THIS Apple IIc. Though I've often put down the post-][+ products from Apple, the IIc seems to have some potential. I've never seen any useful work (control, telemetry monitoring, etc, ) done with a late-generation apple product except when it's done with an external intelligence without which it could easily be done, leaving the Apple product out completely. I suppose it's happened, but I've never seen it done. That's probably in part because the Apple folks keep too many secrets, and in part because if one needed to do useful work, one would use a PC, which has screws and an easily removable cover. The thing that's interesting, as I've only lately discovered, about the IIc is that it's complete and has a place where you can snag power for use outside, though it's intended for a drive of some sort. It does have bipolar 12 volts and positive 5, which is adequate for most anything. That would demand only that one build a connector/cable assembly or two and a box to house the application hardware. > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Aug 7 23:03:50 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Commodore monitors, was Re: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: <398EBA92.21134.669597B@localhost> Message-ID: Hello Lawrence On 07-Aug-00, you wrote: > >>> Thats an easy one, none of the mac monitors work on the II series. A >>> TV monitor can be used, or a regular TV if you have a modulator. >>> There was also a Apple Color RGB monitor that worked specifically >>> with the Apple IIgs and I think the IIc/c+. >> >> Naturally, I use a Commodore monitor with mine if an Apple one isn't >> available. The Commodore 1702 is the world's hardiest monitor, and the >> 1084 the most versatile. >> > You gotta love those Commodore monitors. I have 2 1702s , 2 > different model 1802s and a 2002. Unfortunately no 1084 or more > desireably a 1084S. I use mine for most of my different home > system needs and with a VCR they make a nice TV. > Why do you consider the 1084 the most versatile ? I had > thought they could only be used on an Amiga. > My 2002 has the Video-Chroma-Audio RCA jacks and > 9pin RGB inputs. It also has a digital Pos-Neg and analogue > switch. What was the dig.-neg. position used on ? IBM CGA cards liked to use positive going sync rather than negative. Also fyi, the Commodore 1702 monitor was built by JVC as an HR12U. The 1084 was built by several contractors, including Toshiba, and Phillips/Magnavox. The analog/digital RGB inputs were nice, but since the scan rate is limited to 15 kHz, I see little value in them except for Amigas, or as a straight composite video monitor. Best thing to find would be a nultisync monitor that went from a5 kHz on up to 35 or 40 kHz, RGB analog. Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 7 17:08:45 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Vic-20 problems In-Reply-To: <33754446@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> from "Marion Bates" at Aug 7, 0 03:28:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3983 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000807/6e4a5080/attachment.ksh From louiss at gate.net Mon Aug 7 17:24:39 2000 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Commodore monitors (was: Re: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200008072224.SAA103364@flathead.gate.net> On Mon, 7 Aug 2000 13:23:17 -0500 (CDT), Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) wrote: > > >On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, Lawrence Walker wrote: > >> Why do you consider the 1084 the most versatile ? I had >> thought they could only be used on an Amiga. > >No, they have composite input and can accept PC graphics >(the one that uses 9-pins...CGA definitely, EGA as well???) >Definitely not VGA, though, that used 15 pins and a different >sync rate that the 1084 cannot handle. > > CGA definitely, which is digital RGB. They are also great monitors for the Color Computer 3, which uses analog RGB. This is also used on the Apple IIGS. They are also popular with video gamers. They always bring a good price on eBay. Louis From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Aug 7 23:43:53 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Vic-20 problems In-Reply-To: <33754446@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: Hello Marion On 07-Aug-00, you wrote: > Hey, > > > I've got a pair of sickly Vic-20s and I was wondering if someone (Tony? heh -- > you helped me with this before) could give me some ideas about fixing one or > both of them. > > > The first one is fine except for having no sound. I've checked the pin > assignments and continuity, and according to the info I was given when I built > the cable, everything should be great. But there's no sound with any of the 6 > or 7 cartridges I've tried, or with no cartridge inserted. And the monitor's > sound is known-good. (I am using a Commodore 1084 monitor.) Audio and video both source from the 6560 VIC chip: Pin 19 is the sound output, which drives a 2N3904 emitter follower (Q5) through a .1 mfd cap (C16) to pin 3 of the 5 pin DIN connector. Video output is on pin 3 of the 6560. It goes through a 1 meg pot to ground (R7). Wiper goes to 2.2 mfd 10v (C25) to base of PN2222 (Q7) as an emitter follower. R7 sets video level and R32 sets pedestal via CR2. This emitter follower feeds a voltage divider consisting of a 220 and a 270 ohm in series. L1 connects the emitter directly to pin 5 of the DIN connector, and L2 takes a divided signal to pin 4. Either of these should give you composite video. Use a scope and see if the sync and video are there okay. Also check 10mfd (C24) and .1 mfd (C27) bypasses. One more thing to check is the external 14.31818 oscillator and UB9, a 7402. output I think is 7.16 mHz into pins 38 and 39 of the VIC chip. This timing signal is what all sync and color information is derived from. I would bet the emitter followers are shot, or the caps in the circuit have dried up. If it seems the 6560 chip is gone, the computer has gone too -- those chips used to be available from Jameco until they phased them out of inventory. FYI, early VIC-20's had the 5V regulator built into the motherboard with a large heatsink attached -- these had the two prong 9vac input. Later models had the C-64 power supply with an external regulator. These had a DIN power connector on the side. The later version is the desireable one. Also remember that numbering on a 5 pin DIN is goofy -- 1-4-2-5-3 seems to ring a bell. And some had an 8 pin DIN which the 5 pin would plug into with no modifications, identical to a C-64. Look carefully at the numbers in the plastic if you can see that fine print. > > > The second Vic powers up and appears to send _some_ kind of signal to the > monitor (because the scan "whine" and screen color change) but there's no > actual video, with or without a cartridge inserted. I took it apart and looked > for obvious things like unplugged cables, burnholes, etc. but didn't find > anything like that. I check the continuity on the monitor port (where it's > soldered to the board) and those seemed fine. I am using the same cable as > before, so I know (?) it's not a problem with the cable. > > > Any ideas? > > > Thanks in advance, > > > -- MB > Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Aug 7 18:08:37 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Great Finds this past week and a half References: <00Aug7.095719bst.46091@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <011101c000c4$6c1b6aa0$4d721fd1@default> Believe it or not my name was picked from the CC rescue list by a local reporter because I gave the most information on how to contact me. Since the article he did here in the St. Paul Pioneer Press it as been in all the Knight owned papers around the world. John Keys ----- Original Message ----- From: Adrian Graham To: Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 3:57 AM Subject: RE: Great Finds this past week and a half > John didst scribe: > > > First got a call from a gentleman in Ohio that he had a model 4 TRS 80 > > he wanted to give me along with some other items after he read the > > article about me collecting in his local paper there. The machine and > > other items were here MN with his son. After phone contact > > with the son > > How did you manage to get in the local paper? That's a great form of > advertising.... > > Things I picked up this weekend: > > Adman Grandstand 5000 Pong, boxed > Adman Grandstand SD070 cart pong, boxed > Adman Grandstand VEC (aka Fairchild Channel F II), boxed > Micro Genius IQ501 (Super Famicom clone), boxed > 2 boxed Atari 2600jrs, with a shedload of games > Boxed Grandstand Astro Wars tabletop > half a dozen Vic-20 carts > Issue 2 Spectrum in DK'Tronics keyboard enclosure > > Not bad for ukp25! > From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 7 18:08:08 2000 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: 3 Days in San Jose, hits/pits Message-ID: >the HSC sign... > >HSC, off the central expressway, no idea how I got to >it. Very much like >the first two places, too tidy, too >retail. This isn't really that bad, I >mean if I lived in >the area and needed something between swapmeet times I >just might head over to one of these places to get that >needed item, but >nothing got me excited during the >visit. Some prices were comically high, >but some were OK >if you needed the item. Big collection of data books to > >read with free coffee over in the corner too. Yeah, I know what you mean. I recently took a trip to a used computer place in Witchita that wanted *way* too much for their stuff ($65 for a refurbished Apple/Conner 2.5" 60 Mb SCSI hard drive? I could probably find one for $6, just for the cost of shipping) >General trip notes, WOW have prices gone up. Gas was >$2.19/gal, which is >about $0.40 higher than Orange, CA, >food prices were also higher, even in >supermarkets on >some items (bottled water, but not soda). Rooms were >outrageous, we paid $300/night staying at the Holiday >Inn Crowne Plaza >(very nice, but an older work in >progress), and MUCH worse a rathole >(beatup old >motel/apt on its first leg of fix up) on the east side >of San >Jose called the Whitehouse Inn was $102 when a >page at 7PM forced us to >stay Thursday night. Much >better rooms at slightly better prices were >available >earlier in the day, but by 6PM they were gone. I hate to make you jealous or anything, but here in Texas it's right about at $1.35-$1.45 for cheap grade gas. Also, If you are ever in that area again, look for a hotel chain called MicroTel, (No, this is not a company that made computer modems in the 80's!) you will be surprised at how much you have to pay, as well as the facilities. ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. ____________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Aug 7 18:28:37 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details In-Reply-To: <003f01c000ba$92fc4fe0$0500c0a8@winbook> (richard@idcomm.com) References: <003701c00099$a10c2d60$0500c0a8@winbook> <20000807193502.7247.qmail@brouhaha.com> <003f01c000ba$92fc4fe0$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <20000807232837.15275.qmail@brouhaha.com> > My question would be whether the IIc (not the IIc+) can talk to an external > device by way of the channel used to talk to its external drive(s) in the > same way a IIc+ does it. [...] > One question, then, begging definitive answer is, "What protocol does the > IIc use when communicating via its external drive connector?" Judging from > what I got from the U of IOWA site, it has several supplies, four stepper > driver phases, probably controlled by software, and a couple of control > signals that are probably also controlled by software. If there were a > reasonable way to seize control of the individual bits that control these > babies, this thing becomes a potential powerhouse. The //c disk controller is for all reasonable intents and purposes the same as the Disk ][ controller used in the Apple ][ and ][+, simply with a different connector pinout (D-subminature 19 pin instead of a 2x10 header). It's reduced from seven chips to one, but functions the same. If you can build some external device that you can control with an Apple ][+ and the Disk ][ controller, you'll be able to use it with the //c. The Disk ][ controller schematics are in the DOS 3.2 and DOS 3.3 manuals. > That's particularly true > if there's some protocol in place that sends unmodulated data to the outside > world, say, in some external-intelligence-dependent format that could be > deciphered without having to unmodulate the Apple-style GCR code normally > found on their controllers. It seems as though there are enough signals to > do the job if one could just get control of them. That requires information > not commonly published on the web. If there's an easy way to get that info, > I'd like to do that. If you want to use the actual read data and write data signals, the data *must* be in GCR (or FM) form. That's all the disk controller is capable of dealing with. Your external device may decode the GCR on a write and convert it to something else; that's what the UniDisk 3.5 and the HD20 do. (Note that the UniDisk ends up re-encoding data in GCR, but at a higher bit rate.) If you can talk to your device using only the signals other than the actual read and write data (e.g., the stepper phase signals and the write protect input), you don't need to mess with GCR. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Aug 7 19:14:12 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: SAIC RSC-1x (MOCC) Portable Workstation In-Reply-To: <200008071949.MAA03979@gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000807171412.00965110@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 15:46 07-08-2000 -0500, Tom Owad wrote: >a LAMBDA, 24VDC, 10.5 A. I don't have a military connector, so I've been >sticking the wires onto the pins. I managed to get the system to power on. Tom, I'm a reseller for mil-spec connectors. From the pictures you took, I think I recognize the power connector it's using. If it's what I think it is, you're lucky in that it's a very common (and inexpensive) item. If you can provide me with some numbers from the connector itself (look on the shell and the insert -- the insert will likely have '14-3' or some such thing on it), I can quote you a mating plug for it so you can keep it in original condition. I speak IPC/IPX. If you still have questions after getting this (I suspect others may have already responded to you), just ask. I'll answer if I can. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From cfandt at netsync.net Mon Aug 7 19:23:01 2000 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: New finds: HP9825 etc. In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.20000806110752.00a8ea30@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.20000807201251.00aa7980@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 02:03 AM 8/7/00 +0100, Tony Duell said something like: >Those 'chicklet' HP keyboards are a pain to dismantle. Not only because >there are around 100 self-tapping screws on the back, but also because >the keys _will_ fall out. Never take one apart, no matter how careful you >think you are, without making a digram of the key positions. If that >sounds like the voice of experience, you're right!. > >Put the keyboard face-down on a flat surface so that all the keycaps are >supported and then take off the PCB. I had all the manuals for the 9825's which include several closeups of the complete keyboard. So, having that safety net, I was fearless in this endeavor. Many of you don't have manuals so Tony's suggestion of spending the extra time to map the keytop locations will pay well in the end. Just take your sweet time and relax as you're dismantling and reassembling, all the while focusing on the locations of the parts. > > >> However, during a production day, that old "A" developed a shorted >> series-pass transistor in its switching PSU board which put ~+18 volts onto >> the +5 V supply bus. Well, you know what happened next. I recall very well > >The 9815 PSU (and I guess the 9825) has this as a failure mode :-(. It's >not pleasant. > >Has anyone ever tried adding a crowbar to these supplies? It shouldn't be >hard to add a fuse in series with the input to the switching regulator >and the SCR/zener/resistor circuit from the +5V line to ground, but would >it do any good? As I recall the HP service manager's comment while we were chatting about the problem: a crowbar can be better than what already exists. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From retro at retrobits.com Mon Aug 7 22:40:59 2000 From: retro at retrobits.com (Earl Evans) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Commodore 16 Power Supply Message-ID: <003401c000ea$77f3fd80$6401640a@easystreet.com> Hi folks, I recently stumbled across a Commodore 16 power supply. I'd like to keep it on hand as a spare. But I'm a little worried. The output is specified as 9.5VDC, but when I measured with my DMM, I got 14VDC! I didn't know if it needs a load to bring it down, or if the PS is just shot. Any thoughts? - Earl From richard at idcomm.com Mon Aug 7 22:48:54 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details References: <003701c00099$a10c2d60$0500c0a8@winbook> <20000807193502.7247.qmail@brouhaha.com> <003f01c000ba$92fc4fe0$0500c0a8@winbook> <20000807232837.15275.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <000c01c000eb$93a73fa0$0500c0a8@winbook> Please see embedded comments below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Smith To: Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 5:28 PM Subject: Re: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details > > My question would be whether the IIc (not the IIc+) can talk to an external > > device by way of the channel used to talk to its external drive(s) in the > > same way a IIc+ does it. > [...] > > One question, then, begging definitive answer is, "What protocol does the > > babies, this thing becomes a potential powerhouse. > > The file://c disk controller is for all reasonable intents and purposes the same > as the Disk ][ controller used in the Apple ][ and ][+, simply with a > different connector pinout (D-subminature 19 pin instead of a 2x10 header). > It's reduced from seven chips to one, but functions the same. > > If you can build some external device that you can control with an Apple ][+ > and the Disk ][ controller, you'll be able to use it with the file://c. > > The Disk ][ controller schematics are in the DOS 3.2 and DOS 3.3 manuals. > > > That's particularly true > > if there's some protocol in place that sends unmodulated data to the outside > > world, say, in some external-intelligence-dependent format that could be > > deciphered without having to unmodulate the Apple-style GCR code normally > > found on their controllers. It seems as though there are enough signals to > > do the job if one could just get control of them. That requires information > > not commonly published on the web. If there's an easy way to get that info, > > I'd like to do that. > > If you want to use the actual read data and write data signals, the data > *must* be in GCR (or FM) form. > What? How does it generate FM? Is there a straightforward way to create FM with the standard controller? FM is VERY easy to deal with, while GCR requires one switch data rates, etc, all of which can be done, but it's an unnecessary pain. How does it generate FM? is that a function it does automatically or does it bit-bang it into a buffer and then ship it out ... or what??? I was NOT aware the Apple-][ controller could put out FM. That would have made it able to read/write TRS-80 diskettes, wouldn't it? Well . . . maybe . . . > > That's all the disk controller is capable > of dealing with. Your external device may decode the GCR on a write and > convert it to something else; that's what the UniDisk 3.5 and the HD20 > do. (Note that the UniDisk ends up re-encoding data in GCR, but at a > higher bit rate.) > > If you can talk to your device using only the signals other than the > actual read and write data (e.g., the stepper phase signals and the > write protect input), you don't need to mess with GCR. > I was afraid of that . . . it means I can't get away with anything simple . . . of course I'm grateful you've cleared that up. It seems as though every mention of the IIc in this context talked around this question rather than dealing with it head-on as you 've done. Thanks. The stepper phase signals are of interest because they can sink some current, and particularly because the floppy port has the supplies on it as well. Naturally the drive select (out) and write protect (in) signals ( I haven't looked at this stuff in over a week, so I may have the signal count wrong, but I think there were two out and two in, aside from data) and you say this works precisely the same way the ][+ controller works? Since they can run the same software the locations and bit definitions must be the same. I'll have to contemplate that for a while. I seriously doubt the current venture will require I use the data stream, but it would be interesting to know how to use it. Now, is the rest of the memory map pretty much the same as on the ][+, that is, can one rely on finding the small 256-byte blocks associated with each "slot"? That's way more than I'd need for a channel. > From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Aug 7 22:57:44 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Commodore 1084 (was: Re: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: ; from transit@lerctr.org on Mon, Aug 07, 2000 at 10:58:19AM -0500 References: <200008071345.GAA08178@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <20000807225744.F25487@mrbill.net> On Mon, Aug 07, 2000 at 10:58:19AM -0500, Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) wrote: > On Mon, 7 Aug 2000, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Naturally, I use a Commodore monitor with mine if an Apple one isn't > > available. The Commodore 1702 is the world's hardiest monitor, and the > > 1084 the most versatile. > I have a 1084 that I switch between an Amiga 1000 and either an Apple IIe > or a TI 99/4A, using the digital/composite switch... My favorite use for a 1084: http://www.decvax.org/myvax/cabletv.jpg Makes a *GREAT* television when hooked to the composite-outs of a Scientific Atlanta "Explorer 2000" digital cable box. Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Aug 8 01:44:03 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: AS/400? Message-ID: <010f01c00104$0b075220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Anyone out there know anything about IBM AS/400's? Looking for some info on the following system. This is the first AS/400 I've ever seen, so bear with me a little. I'm not familiar with IBM stuff at all (pc's excepted) Digital Vaxen, yes. I picked up a Type 9402-2xx with 4 x Type 0662 1.05Gb SCSI Hard drives and a 2Gb Tape drive for $30 at an auction in Adelaide last Friday. Cool looking ~Microvax II sized box, solid metal, with a black plastic 5 piece shroud. (The back bulkhead cover is missing). A badge with the IBM logo is on the front shroud, with AS/400 Advanced also in the badge. Thing appears to boot, rattles away at drives, status display is live etc, but have no idea what/where/how to connect anything to it. Have numerous cables etc, and an IBM 3477 terminal I found in my back room. Looking for advice on how/what to connect to it. Not sure if this fits in the 10 year rule, though the AS/400 itself goes way back, this machine appears more recent. Early/Mid 90's? It appears to have at least 16mb of ram on a board inside. (2 x IBM 72 pin SIMMS). There is a DB25F on the back that appears to go to what I take to be the main board, (which has part no 74G9701) that I assume is a console port (do these have a console port?) the ram is on a board with a part number of 74G9722 which I assume is a memory expansion board of some description. I suspect it's running some version of OS/400 rather than SSP (I think that's the original O/S for these). This appears to be a RISC machine based on the pic in the docs on the IBM site, which show that it is a Version 3 AS/400. (Whatever that means.) The following modules are fitted in the rear bulkhead. Searching for module no's on the web found virtually nothing to my surprise. 2612 x 1 (A chance encounter in a newsgroup reveals this is an EIA 232/V.24 One-Line Adapter) I translate that as a serial port. There is a blanking panel below it that would probably allow another to be fitted there. 2609 x 2 I have some cables that mate to these, IBM P/N 21F9345 (9843),they terminate in a 'black box' with 2 x DB25M's minus pins 9, 14 and 16, marked P1 and P2 which I suspect are terminal ports. I have 4 x P/N 22F0152 (9835) DB25F to DB25M, with pins 9-14, 16 and 19 missing, these were hanging off the DB25M's on the 'black boxes'. I assume these are to connect to a terminal, they certainly fit one of the ports on the 3477. One 22F0152 cable has an oddball DB25F in a plastic shell that seems to be "wrapped around" the cable, it turns freely, it has 8 wires that each jump one pin to another pin, and no connection to the cable itself. Some kind of loopback connector? Spare part? Inductive pickup? Who knows? 264A (Blank/space filler) 2641 (Blank/space filler) 2623 (some kind of interface, the 2 x 2609's fit into it) None of these appear to be an ethernet connector, so I will have to hunt up one of those too I guess. Some 3180 "R2D2" Twinax based terms and cables came with it, however there does not appear to be any kind of Twinax connector on the machine. There were also some 'clone' type terms with it, but someone else got them. I suspect these ran off the IBM's web site has some docs etc available, but the physics of what and how to connect terms etc are buried deep if they even exist there. >From sticker on metal side of unit (Under the black plastic cover) Type 9402 S/N 10-1428A Release Level V3ROM5 PTF Level C4179305 TSP (Y/N) : NO Software License Type: NONE On a small sticker on the back panel Type 9402-2xx S/N 10-1428A MS9402101428A Any help appreciated, replies off list if this is off topic most welcome.. Thanks in advance, Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From mranalog at home.com Tue Aug 8 01:49:30 2000 From: mranalog at home.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details Message-ID: <398FAD7A.29AC8ACB@home.com> Eric Smith said: > The //c disk controller is for all reasonable intents and purposes the same > as the Disk ][ controller used in the Apple ][ and ][+, simply with a > different connector pinout (D-subminature 19 pin instead of a 2x10 header). > It's reduced from seven chips to one, but functions the same. In fact I remember about 1988, buying a small connector from Jameco. It had pins on both sides almost like a wire wrap header. (I seem to me that the pins were straight through). One side plugged into the //c floppy port and the other side plugged into the ribbon cable from the Apple ][ drive. And it cost two or three dollars. I couldn't find it on their web site just now, but I was surprised to see that they still sell power supplies for the Apple ][,][+,][e. --Doug ==================================================== Doug Coward Curator Analog Computer Museum and History Center http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog ==================================================== From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Tue Aug 8 02:30:04 2000 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:45 2005 Subject: Commodore 16 Power Supply Message-ID: <80256935.00297EA5.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > Hi folks, Hi folks too! It's over four months since I was last on Classiccmp, and I almost feel I need a delurk! > I recently stumbled across a Commodore 16 power supply. I'd like to keep it > on hand as a spare. But I'm a little worried. The output is specified as > 9.5VDC, but when I measured with my DMM, I got 14VDC! I didn't know if it > needs a load to bring it down, or if the PS is just shot. > > Any thoughts? My thoughts: These beasts use 5V for the logic, and somewhere around 9V (not critical) for tape motors and things. A 9.5V power supply is bound to be unregulated (why regulate it to a voltage that's not critical when all you're going to do is regulate it again to the voltage that is). Recent threads have pointed out Commie machines of that date with regulators on the board. And finally, the two voltages in the PET (the Commie with which I'm familiar) are 5V (regulated) and 9V (unregulated) (FWIW, the PET 8296D just took 5V and 12V from a SMPSU, but that was a special case - an internal disk drive wanted 12V fairly well regulated for motors) So I am 99.99% certain that it just needs a load to bring it down. To test it, the easiest load to use is an auto bulb. A stop lamp / indicator bulb is rated about 2A at 12V (well, 21W is 1.75A). Stick that on the output - the bulb should survive if it remains up at 14V, but I expect you'll see it come down to about 10V. Just my 2d worth. Philip. ________________________ Disclaimer Notice ____________________________ This E-mail message is private and confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, reproduction, modification or publication of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. This message is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. This company therefore disclaims all responsibility and accepts no liability of any kind which may arise from any person acting, or refraining from acting, upon the contents of the message without having had subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this communication in error, or if any problems occur in transmission please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0)24 76 424000 From ncherry at home.net Tue Aug 8 06:19:32 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: AS/400? References: <010f01c00104$0b075220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <398FECC4.F59ABCEF@home.net> I found this PDP 11-23 on ebay, it currently has no bids and the starting bid is $39.50. I have nothing to do with this item and if I knew something about the pdp series I might have kept my mouth shut. ;-) Bidding ends on Aug-12-00 19:13:52 PDT http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=403966515 -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Aug 8 06:46:57 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Slow Grinding Mills In-Reply-To: <010f01c00104$0b075220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <39900F51.10331.12E94BB4@localhost> Cute article on /. http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=00/08/07/1859236&mode=thread Enigma-like Device Patent Granted - 67 Years Later Encryption | Posted by Hemos on Monday August 07, @04:31PM from the pretty-cool dept. Thanks to Bruce Schneier[?] of Counterpane fame for sending in this tidbit. The US Patent Office has granted William Friedman a patent for an Engima-like device - the catch is that he filed in 1933. Still it's a cool vintage piece of crypto - and I also noticed that a gallery copy of Bruce's new book is on eBay. 'Course, you could wait just a few weeks and buy a new one, but hey - if you gotta have it now, you gotta have it. :)) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Aug 8 13:19:40 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Commodore 16 Power Supply In-Reply-To: <003401c000ea$77f3fd80$6401640a@easystreet.com> Message-ID: Hello Earl On 07-Aug-00, you wrote: > Hi folks, > > I recently stumbled across a Commodore 16 power supply. I'd like to keep it > on hand as a spare. But I'm a little worried. The output is specified as > 9.5VDC, but when I measured with my DMM, I got 14VDC! I didn't know if it > needs a load to bring it down, or if the PS is just shot. > > Any thoughts? > > - Earl No worries at all, mine does the same thing. The wall wart has no regulator in it, so it will do that. The label is what the output is UNDER LOAD. Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Aug 8 08:39:18 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Commodore 16 Power Supply In-Reply-To: from Gary Hildebrand at "Aug 8, 0 12:19:40 pm" Message-ID: <200008081339.GAA09522@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > No worries at all, mine does the same thing. The wall wart has no regulator > in it, so it will do that. The label is what the output is UNDER LOAD. ... and the "wall wart" :-) is actually quite reliable. I use mine with a stereo system, since I don't have a C16 (but I do have some parts for a European 116; I just need a motherboard if someone has one spare!!). -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If your happiness depends on anyone else, you've got a problem. -- R. Bach - From thompson at mail.athenet.net Tue Aug 8 08:37:24 2000 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: AS/400? In-Reply-To: <010f01c00104$0b075220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 8 Aug 2000, Geoff Roberts wrote: > Thing appears to boot, rattles away at drives, status display is live > etc, but have no idea what/where/how to connect anything to it. Have > numerous cables etc, and an IBM 3477 terminal I found in my back room. > Looking for advice on how/what to connect to it. I am not an especially big expert on AS/400's other than retrieving two old CISC models this year. (Kinda like staying at a holiday inn, I guess) It depends on the model, but often one needs a twinax terminal set for 0,0 to act as a console. On the newer models, the twinax connectors go to a DB9 (DB something anyway) connector on the back of the machine so there is an additional balun needed to actually connect to the twinax media. My documentation indicates that some models of 9402 CISC machine could actually take ASCII consoles, so perhaps there were models in the RISC variety that were this way too if you're lucky. > Not sure if this fits in the 10 year rule, though the AS/400 itself goes > way back, this machine appears more recent. Early/Mid 90's? I believe if it is black is a RISC based machine. snip > 2612 x 1 (A chance encounter in a newsgroup reveals this is an EIA > 232/V.24 One-Line Adapter) I translate that as a serial port. I think it is intended for a support modem. > None of these appear to be an ethernet connector, so I will have to hunt > up one of those too I guess. It will be ugly since ethernet is a licen$ed feature on AS/400. Speaking of which, you will probably need the system password, an enormous hex number which allows the software to continue working. My documentation which came with my CISC 9402 even indicates that there are movement sensors in some machines which will trigger if large movements are detected and prompt for the system password. This was an attempt to thwart people selling the machines without sending proper dowry to IBM. Often times the machine will run for 90 days or so without a system password but eventually on IPL one is needed for it to continue to function. This, combined with my lack of twinax infrastructure caused my CISC machines to make the ultimate sacrifice. Properly reformatted they provide nice IBM scsi drives for my more usable machines. Paul From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 8 08:54:51 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details References: <398FAD7A.29AC8ACB@home.com> Message-ID: <001201c00140$3a033f80$0500c0a8@winbook> Now, THAT would be a handy part to have available at tne moment. Since it apparent'y translates from the IIc's floppy port to the DISK-][ cable, it would serve to move those same signals and supplies to an arbitrary location. I was just contemplating how I'd have to cut a DB25P IDC in two and mill off 6 pins' worth of connector and then glue it back together in order to make it fit the IIc's floppy port. Too bad JameCo doesn't list that number any longer. What I'll probably end up doing is soldering 19 appropriately located pins into a PCB scrap intended for a DB25 and then soldering the wires to the pins. It's unlikely I'll find an appropriately sized shell. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Coward To: Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 12:49 AM Subject: Re: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details > Eric Smith said: > > The file://c disk controller is for all reasonable intents and purposes the same > > as the Disk ][ controller used in the Apple ][ and ][+, simply with a > > different connector pinout (D-subminature 19 pin instead of a 2x10 header). > > It's reduced from seven chips to one, but functions the same. > > In fact I remember about 1988, buying a small connector from Jameco. It > had > pins on both sides almost like a wire wrap header. (I seem to me that > the pins > were straight through). One side plugged into the file://c floppy port and > the > other side plugged into the ribbon cable from the Apple ][ drive. And > it > cost two or three dollars. I couldn't find it on their web site just > now, > but I was surprised to see that they still sell power supplies for the > Apple ][,][+,][e. > > --Doug > ==================================================== > Doug Coward > Curator > Analog Computer Museum and History Center > http://www.best.com/~dcoward/analog > ==================================================== > > From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Aug 8 09:03:02 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Commodore 1084 (was: Re: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: <20000807225744.F25487@mrbill.net> References: <200008071345.GAA08178@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000808090015.029bf6a0@pc> At 10:57 PM 8/7/00 -0500, Bill Bradford wrote: >My favorite use for a 1084: >http://www.decvax.org/myvax/cabletv.jpg >Makes a *GREAT* television when hooked to the composite-outs of a >Scientific Atlanta "Explorer 2000" digital cable box. I think I've exhausted my supply of 1084 for this reason. Eventually, they've zapped in one way or another and I haven't the skill to fix them. I'm still using a Sony KV-1311CR for a television, though, which was also a somewhat popular Amiga analog RGB monitor in its time. I drive it with a Roctec P-i-P tuner, which can select between TV and three inputs. I also have a Zenith analog monitor that serves as a composite display, although I don't know which computer it came from. - John From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Aug 8 15:24:58 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Sony CPD 1302 Message-ID: Hello, I was given this monitor at the Springfield hamfest. According to the back panel it is an analog RGB with a DB9 female input. Does anyone out there have a pinout on that plug, or shall I attempt to contact Sony on this one?? I am presuming that it is NTSC/CGA scan frequencies. Kind regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 8 09:34:38 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIc I/O map References: <003701c00099$a10c2d60$0500c0a8@winbook> <20000807193502.7247.qmail@brouhaha.com> <003f01c000ba$92fc4fe0$0500c0a8@winbook> <20000807232837.15275.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <002001c00145$c8e20240$0500c0a8@winbook> Hi, Eric! I've gotten snippets of information regarding the IIc's I/O allocation scheme. Does it support the constructs associated with the slots of the ][+? I got out the ][+ doc's per your recommendation and looked at the I/O allocation scheme, finding that each card was allocated 16 bytes of memory map for local I/O. It also was allocated a page of memory for device-unique code, ostensibly to initialize the device and condition the system prior to enabling its on-board ROM if there was one. Is this same memory allocated likewise in the IIc? Which FDC bits would you recommend one use for parallel output? Having looked at the ][+ FDC schematic, I find there are no directly controllable output bits available, nor, in fact are there any directly accessible input bits. Every otherwise conceivably available turns out to be attached to something having other side-effects. This convinces me it would be simpler to build an externally accessible channel, perhaps including power on its own connector, or perhaps using the power available on the external FD connector. This has me leaning once again toward simply building in a channel similar to what's used with the WD series bridge controllers. That's not because I want to attach one of them, but rather because it's an easy interface channel to use. It maps eight bytes under a single select and does so quite simply. If one were to decode a card select, (12 bits of address, assuming nothing about available decode signals for I/O and such, it would be easy enough to time the write and read signals and buffer the 4 addresses that remain. That would allow external decodeing of two 8-byte blocks, sufficient for a PIA or some other general-purpose device, not to mention discrete MSI components. It's pretty simple to build a channel, since it doesn't require much logic, and it's pretty simple to use it. What do you think? Since power is available, there's no real reason to worry those same issues that make the notebook less likely to provide a practical solution. I'd say the IIc and a notebook provide pretty equivalent hardware solutions. Both require a "brick" to operate for a longer period, though the notebook's is smaller, (actually my Toshiba notebook didn't require one, but I gave that to my elder son when he went away to college. The one I use now is a Winbook.) and the size isn't an issue. What do you think? Dick From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 8 10:25:39 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Sony CPD 1302 References: Message-ID: <000701c0014c$e979f4c0$0500c0a8@winbook> It's NOT an NTSC-compatible! It's a VGA-compatible intended for use at 640x400 or 640x480 and such. If it's working properly, it should work with either EGA or VGA adapters. There are VGA to EGA adapters at nearly every swap-meet since they're not so commonly needed any more, so you shouldn't have any trouble checking the thing out. Moreover, if you want, you can probably find an adapter cable at Best-Buy or CompUSA for under $10. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Hildebrand To: classcomp mailing list Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 2:24 PM Subject: Sony CPD 1302 > Hello, > > I was given this monitor at the Springfield hamfest. According to the back > panel it is an analog RGB with a DB9 female input. Does anyone out there > have a pinout on that plug, or shall I attempt to contact Sony on this one?? > I am presuming that it is NTSC/CGA scan frequencies. > > Kind regards > -- > Gary Hildebrand > Box 6184 > St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 > > 816-662-2612 > or > > ghldbrd@ccp.com > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 8 12:22:13 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: New finds: HP9825 etc. In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000807201251.00aa7980@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Aug 7, 0 08:23:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2225 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000808/22a6d5d4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 8 12:32:36 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Commodore 16 Power Supply In-Reply-To: <003401c000ea$77f3fd80$6401640a@easystreet.com> from "Earl Evans" at Aug 7, 0 08:40:59 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1144 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000808/39368b2a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 8 12:38:31 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Commodore 16 Power Supply In-Reply-To: <80256935.00297EA5.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@pgen.com" at Aug 8, 0 08:30:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1481 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000808/0ae3314c/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 8 14:38:36 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details In-Reply-To: <000c01c000eb$93a73fa0$0500c0a8@winbook> (richard@idcomm.com) References: <003701c00099$a10c2d60$0500c0a8@winbook> <20000807193502.7247.qmail@brouhaha.com> <003f01c000ba$92fc4fe0$0500c0a8@winbook> <20000807232837.15275.qmail@brouhaha.com> <000c01c000eb$93a73fa0$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <20000808193836.26500.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Richard Erlacher" wrote: > What? How does it generate FM? Is there a straightforward way to create FM > with the standard controller? FM is VERY easy to deal with, while GCR > requires one switch data rates, etc, all of which can be done, but it's an > unnecessary pain. How does it generate FM? is that a function it does > automatically or does it bit-bang it into a buffer and then ship it out ... > or what??? I was NOT aware the Apple-][ controller could put out FM. That > would have made it able to read/write TRS-80 diskettes, wouldn't it? Well . > . . maybe . . . It can do FM, but not IBM 3740 and equivalent formats. Woz's patent on the controller in fact *only* describes FM; apparently he switched to GCR later. In fact, the address fields on the disk are FM-encoded even though the data sectors are GCR. In the following discussion, not the careful distinction between channel bits (the actual bits on the diskette), and user bits. FM and GCR are channel codes, which specify the transformation from user bits to channel bits during write operations, and back to user bits during read operations. In the Apple disk controller, these transformations are performed by software (typically the RWTS routines). However, the hardware still imposes restrictions on what channel codes may be used. In Apple terminology, eight channel bits are called a nibble, but since that term is more commonly used to refer to four data bits (half a byte), I'll instead use the term "octet". Note that while an octet is eight channel bits, it does not inherently correspond to any specific number of user data bits. Some octets on the disk do not correspond to user data at all, but instead are used for address fields, data marks, checksums, etc. The basic idea of read channel of the Apple disk controller is that the PROM state machine does clock recovery by acting as a digital PLL. The original (13-sector) PROM could not reliably count more than one missing pulse (i.e., a zero channel bit). The 16-sector PROM can reliably count two missing pulses. The only way the processor can tell that an octet has been read into the shift register is that the MSB of the shift register is set. This means that there are only 128 usable octet values. However, when combined with the additional restriction of no more than one or two consecutive zero channel bits (for 13 and 16 sector PROMs, respectively), this leaves only 34 or 81 usable octet values. For FM, then, you simply use data patterns for which the odd-numbered bits of the octet (considering bit 0 to be the LSB) are all set. These are effectively clock bits. The even numbered channel bits are used for user data bits. This encoding takes advantage of only 16 of the usable channel code octets, so it clearly is nowhere near optimal coding efficiency. It results in an expansion of each user data byte into two octets. This format is used for the address fields on the disk, but if it were to be used for the data fields as well, it would only be possible to fit ten 256-byte sectors per track. Apple's 13 and 16 sector formats take advantage of the larger range of possible channel code octets. 13-sector format uses 32 octet values for representing 5 bits of user data, and the remaining 2 octets values for address and data marks. 16-sector format uses 64 octet values for data, 2 for address and data marks, and leaves 15 unused. The disk write process requires the software to gather groups of five or six user data bits from a data buffer, look up the corresponding octet in a table, and write that to the shift register. The read process involves getting an octet from the shift register, looking up the equivalent user data bits in a second table, and packing them into the data buffer. The processes of converting user data bits to and from the corresponding octet values are commonly referred to as "nibblizing" and "denibblizing". In the traditional RWTS routines, the nibblizing and denibblizing were done as separate steps before and after the actual writing and reading. This is one reason why a minimum of 2:1 sector interleave is required. Starting with the Apple III, more clever code was developed that could handle nibblizing and denibblizing for 16-sector format on-the-fly. There is one other important part of how the Apple disk controller works, which is the "self-sync" pattern written as a preamble before sectors. The self-sync consists of sets of nine (13-sector format) or ten (16-sector format) channel bits, of which the first eight bits are ones, and the remaining bit(s) are zero. The self-sync pattern is necessary because if the controller attempted to start a read at an arbitrary point on the track, it wouldn't be able to determine where an octet starts. However, when starting in a preamble, it is guaranteed that no matter where reading starts, after five complete self-sync patterns (16-bit format) the reading will be properly synchronized. Of course, there's no way to guarantee that the read process starts in a preamble. However, if it starts somewhere else, it will not find a valid address mark until after a preamble, so synchronization will be achieved. The self-sync marks are generated by writing an all-ones (0xff) octet to the shift register every 36 or 40 microseconds, rather than the normal 32 microseconds. In terms of what you can do to "abuse" the floppy controller into talking to devices other than floppy drives, you still have the limitation of no more than 81 usable octet values. If you use a microcontroller and shift register as your interface, you can easily support the Apple GCR formats. But if you prefer, there's no reason why you can't simply stick to FM. That will get you an effective user data transfer rate of 125 Kbits/second. > The stepper phase signals are of interest because they can sink some > current, No, they can't. They're TTL signals. The drive has ULN2803A drivers. > Now, is the rest of the memory map pretty much the same as on the ][+, that > is, can one rely on finding the small 256-byte blocks associated with each > "slot"? That's way more than I'd need for a channel. No, the "slot" memory is taken up by the IIc ROM. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 8 14:48:34 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: AS/400? In-Reply-To: <010f01c00104$0b075220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> (geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au) References: <010f01c00104$0b075220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <20000808194834.26884.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Geoff Roberts" wrote: > Anyone out there know anything about IBM AS/400's? [...] > I picked up a Type 9402-2xx with 4 x Type 0662 1.05Gb SCSI Hard drives Go to http://www.ibmlink.ibm.com/ Choose IBMLink for the United States (at the bottom of the list). Choose "Sales Manual" under InfoLink. Enter "9402" in the Product Number field and click Search. There'll be a list of all the 9402 series. You presumably want 9402-200, unless what you have is a 9402-236 or 9402-20S. This will give you *lots* of useful information. Note that since your machine is CISC-based, it does NOT come with any software licenses, and software licenses are NOT transferrable, so you will have to buy an OS/400 license from IBM. We're talking really big bucks. :-( Also, if you ever have to reinstall the software from scratch, you will need a MULIC (Model-Unique Licensed Internal Code) tape. If at all possible, try to get this from the seller. Also, under certain circumstances the computer will as for a system password at IPL time. If you don't have a system password, you will be given the opportunity to use the system for up to 70 days (IIRC), after which time you will no longer be able to IPL. I'm told that if the system is powered off for a long time, that's one of the conditions that will cause it to ask for a system password. If you need a system password, you'll have to pay big bucks to IBM. Because of these problems, I'd strongly recommend that anyone interested in acquiring an AS/400 try to get a newer RISC-based model instead. With the RISC-based models, the software licenses are transferrable. I have a 9406-B45 and another 9406 which I have not yet identified. I've put some links at: http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/ibm/as400/ From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 8 15:31:19 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details References: <003701c00099$a10c2d60$0500c0a8@winbook> <20000807193502.7247.qmail@brouhaha.com> <003f01c000ba$92fc4fe0$0500c0a8@winbook> <20000807232837.15275.qmail@brouhaha.com> <000c01c000eb$93a73fa0$0500c0a8@winbook> <20000808193836.26500.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <001701c00177$9c94b020$0500c0a8@winbook> It'll take a while for me to digest what you've said here. I looked at the ][+ manual long enough to note that none of the bits used in the interface go "straight through" which would have made life simple. Consequently I'll probably build an I/O channel with power on the connector and run it to something capable of latching/buffering bits in and out. That will make the IIc capable of controller/monitoring nearly anything electromechanical. Isn't there an 8-or-16-byte block anywhere in the IIc's memory map that's not already used? This is what I've been trying to find, among other things. BTW, I caught the fact that the stepper phase signals are driven by a 9334, which is a ttl addressable latch. I'm not even certain how it uses that particular device, since it has several useful modes. The 16mA sink of the 9334 is quite significant as compared with most HCT-TTL workalikes will give you, but it's not a relay driver. I was misled by the fact that someone told me the ULN2803's were used to drive the stepper. I naturally assumed that meant they were on the controller, since that's an 8-bit device and there are only 4 phase drive signals to each drive. There's probably good reason for that, however. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Eric Smith To: Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 1:38 PM Subject: Re: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details > "Richard Erlacher" wrote: > > What? How does it generate FM? Is there a straightforward way to create FM > > with the standard controller? FM is VERY easy to deal with, while GCR > > requires one switch data rates, etc, all of which can be done, but it's an > > unnecessary pain. How does it generate FM? is that a function it does > > automatically or does it bit-bang it into a buffer and then ship it out ... > > or what??? I was NOT aware the Apple-][ controller could put out FM. That > > would have made it able to read/write TRS-80 diskettes, wouldn't it? Well . > > . . maybe . . . > > It can do FM, but not IBM 3740 and equivalent formats. Woz's patent on > the controller in fact *only* describes FM; apparently he switched to > GCR later. In fact, the address fields on the disk are FM-encoded even > though the data sectors are GCR. > > In the following discussion, not the careful distinction between channel > > The stepper phase signals are of interest because they can sink some > > current, > > No, they can't. They're TTL signals. The drive has ULN2803A drivers. > The 16 mA output from standard TTL is quite a bit as compared with the 6 ma one gets from today's HCMOS, don't forget. > > > Now, is the rest of the memory map pretty much the same as on the ][+, that > > is, can one rely on finding the small 256-byte blocks associated with each > > "slot"? That's way more than I'd need for a channel. > > No, the "slot" memory is taken up by the IIc ROM. > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Aug 8 17:19:06 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Palasm? In-Reply-To: <001301bfff51$836177a0$0500c0a8@winbook> References: <39898336.2AD76671@idirect.com> <398CCA6C.ED370449@idirect.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000808171906.3a6f4088@mailhost.intellistar.net> Hi Dick, Do you mean the PalASM for the DataI/O programmers? I just got it but I haven't tried to use it yet. Jeff Kaneko seems to be pretty knowledgeable on this stuff but I don't know if he's still on this list or not. Joe At 08:53 PM 8/5/00 -0600, you wrote: >Since Palasm is not only obsolete but well over 20 years old these days, I'm >hoping somebody out there is more knowledgable about it than I. I've >recently been pondering the various constructs that it supported and am >having a LOT of trouble making it do what its manual claims it routinely >does. > >I'd like to kick this oldie around a bit just to get past the point which >served my purposes all these years. There are so many of its features I >never used, e.g state machine syntax. I'm trying to get on top of that now, >just for grins, but I'd surely like to kick this around with someone who >knows it better than I. > >Any takers? > >Dick > > From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Aug 8 16:49:47 2000 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Proapp 20 HD for Apple II systems? Message-ID: <39903A2B.3837.1BB7C59@localhost> Anyone know anything about the Proapp 20? It appears to be a harddrive that works with Apple IIe, IIc, IIgs or a Mac 512 and Mac Plus. It plugs into either the floppy port or a scsi port. Anyone have any more info on these? Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From ncherry at home.net Tue Aug 8 17:02:58 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions Message-ID: <39908392.A198E534@home.net> I've found a PDP 11-23 computer oand I haven't the foggiest idea about it. What should I look for? Claims to have: M8044 DB M8044 DB M8186 M8013 M8014 M8029 M8012 YA Not knowing has never stopped me before. ;-) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From dpeschel at eskimo.com Tue Aug 8 17:21:20 2000 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: <200008061429.HAA10388@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Aug 06, 2000 07:29:23 AM Message-ID: <200008082221.PAA10396@eskimo.com> > > There are, of course, many other features in the ROM; it's just a matter of > > digging up the programming info. And (since you have such a late member of > > the ][ series) there are also features in the hardware, such as double- > > resolution text, low-res, and high-res modes, that the ROM was never updated > > to handle. > > How do you get at these modes? Are they in the IIgs, also? The //e (I think it was the //e) first contained them. Every machine after that, including the //gs, contains them. The //gs also has its own modes, of course. I think you can get at the double-res graphics modes from BASIC, but there are no BASIC commands that directly support them. Also they use banked memory. You can get at the 80 column text mode with PR#3. > Speaking of which, can you drive the IIgs graphics chip and sound chip, > whatever they're called, from Applesoft? I think I read on comp.sys.apple2 of demos that do that, but they were written by Bruce Tognazzini or Paul Lutus or some other godlike figure. :) -- Derek From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Aug 8 17:22:06 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions In-Reply-To: <39908392.A198E534@home.net> from "Neil Cherry" at Aug 08, 2000 06:02:58 PM Message-ID: <200008082222.PAA20316@shell1.aracnet.com> > I've found a PDP 11-23 computer oand I haven't the foggiest idea > about it. What should I look for? Well, since you're into Linux, you might want to take a look at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ I'm not sure though if you'd be able to get any form of UNIX up on this system. > Claims to have: For this kind of stuff have a look at: http://world.std.com/~mbg/pdp11-field-guide.txt or http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/field-guide.txt > M8044 DB > M8044 DB M8044-DA MSV11-DD Q 32-Kword 16-bit MOS RAM > M8186 PDP-11/23 CPU > M8013 M8013 RLV11 Q RL01 disk controller, 1 of 2 > M8014 M8014 RLV11 Q RL01 disk controller, 2 of 2 > M8029 M8029 RXV21 Q RX02 floppy disk controller, 18-bit DMA only > M8012 YA M8012 BDV11 Q Bus terminator, bootstrap and diagnostic ROMs > Not knowing has never stopped me before. ;-) What do you have in the way of disk drives for this system? Is it still in the rack? Based on the controller boards I'm guessing that it had one or two RL01 drives, and a pair of RX02 drives. The RL01's or possibly RL02's are 14" removable disk packs, a RL01 is 5MB, and a RL02 is 10MB. The RX02 is a 8" floppy. You've a total of 64Kword or 128k of RAM. Based on the amount of RAM, and the lack of serial ports I'm wondering if this system wasn't a single user RT-11 system. Zane From emu at ecubics.com Tue Aug 8 17:31:01 2000 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions References: <39908392.A198E534@home.net> Message-ID: <39908A25.7CF288E1@ecubics.com> Neil Cherry wrote: > > I've found a PDP 11-23 computer on ebay ;-) > oand I haven't the foggiest idea > about it. What should I look for? > > Claims to have: > > M8044 DB 32 KW RAM > M8044 DB 32 KW RAM > M8186 11/23 cpu > M8013 > M8014 Both together: RLV11 aka RL01 controller > M8029 RXV21 aka RX02 Floppy controller > M8012 YA Bus terminator & bootstrap > > Not knowing has never stopped me before. ;-) ;-) Cheers, emanuel From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 8 17:45:14 2000 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: I must bid you all a temporay farewell. Message-ID: Due to my commitment to enter the U.S. Navy, I will not be able to check my e-mail for a good 8-10 weeks. In light of this situation, I must bid everybody in this group a temporary farewell. I do intend to re-register once I have the chance, & I will never forget all of the happenings here over the past year & a half. So, for the last time, my signature... ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. ____________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Aug 8 17:45:12 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions Message-ID: <003401c0018a$9fd3b3e0$47099a8d@ajp166> From: Neil Cherry To: classic Date: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 6:22 PM Subject: PDP 11-23 questions >I've found a PDP 11-23 computer oand I haven't the foggiest idea >about it. What should I look for? > >Claims to have: > >M8044 DB >M8044 DB Two 32KW memories, second rev 32kw, no parity. You can have more of those up to 128KW (256KB) >M8186 11/23 KDF11A cpu if the handle has a C melted into it anywhere it's Q22 otherwise Q18 (assuming the second chip is there, the MMU). >M8013 >M8014 RLV11 set, used for RL01 or RL02 removeable 14" 10mb disk. >M8029 RQDX21 interface for RX02. the is an interface you need the RX02 for a complete floppy system. >M8012 YA diagnostic/Boot/terminator card, a must have with M8186 as the CPU has NO boot (it does have microODT). there is a field guide for PDP11s! Also there is no serial IO that you have listed. Typically a M8043 (DLV11J 4 port serial) or a M8017 maybe an old M7940 both similar DLV11 type single serial ports. Allison From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Aug 8 18:11:14 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: I must bid you all a temporay farewell. In-Reply-To: from David Vohs at "Aug 8, 0 10:45:14 pm" Message-ID: <200008082311.QAA12176@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Due to my commitment to enter the U.S. Navy, I will not be able to check my > e-mail for a good 8-10 weeks. In light of this situation, I must bid > everybody in this group a temporary farewell. I do intend to re-register > once I have the chance, & I will never forget all of the happenings here > over the past year & a half. Good luck and bring lots of Dramamine! -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Dalai Lama to hotdog vendor: "Make me one with everything." ---------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Aug 8 18:12:11 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions In-Reply-To: <200008082222.PAA20316@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at "Aug 8, 0 03:22:06 pm" Message-ID: <200008082312.QAA11674@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Well, since you're into Linux, you might want to take a look at: > http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ > I'm not sure though if you'd be able to get any form of UNIX up on this > system. This reminds me. Is there a Linux port to RS/6000? The normal Linux advocacy portals I checked were equivocal. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- In memory of Greg Morris --------------------------------------------------- From ncherry at home.net Tue Aug 8 18:19:10 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions References: <39908392.A198E534@home.net> Message-ID: <3990956E.24F7C581@home.net> Well due to budget concerns (my wife and CFO :-) has nixed the ebid on the PDP 11-23. It can be found at: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=403966515 -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From PasserM at umkc.edu Tue Aug 8 18:20:57 2000 From: PasserM at umkc.edu (Passer, Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: I must bid you all a temporay farewell. Message-ID: <95A711A70065D111B58C00609451555C077351EA@umkc-mail02.wins.umkc.edu> Congratulations--may boot camp pass quickly and your CC not learn your name! --Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of David Vohs Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 5:45 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: I must bid you all a temporay farewell. Due to my commitment to enter the U.S. Navy, I will not be able to check my e-mail for a good 8-10 weeks. In light of this situation, I must bid everybody in this group a temporary farewell. I do intend to re-register once I have the chance, & I will never forget all of the happenings here over the past year & a half. So, for the last time, my signature... ____________________________________________________________ David Vohs, Digital Archaeologist & Computer Historian. Home page: http://www.geocities.com/netsurfer_x1/ Computer Collection: "Triumph": Commodore 64C, 1802, 1541, FSD-1, GeoRAM 512, MPS-801. "Leela": Macintosh 128 (Plus upgrade), Nova SCSI HDD, Imagewriter II. "Delorean": TI-99/4A, TI Speech Synthesizer. "Monolith": Apple Macintosh Portable. "Spectrum": Tandy Color Computer 3, Disto 512K RAM board. "Boombox": Sharp PC-7000. ____________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Aug 8 18:46:42 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions In-Reply-To: <3990956E.24F7C581@home.net> from "Neil Cherry" at Aug 08, 2000 07:19:10 PM Message-ID: <200008082346.QAA00443@shell1.aracnet.com> > Well due to budget concerns (my wife and CFO :-) has nixed the ebid on > the PDP 11-23. It can be found at: Smile, and keep your eyes open for a better system. As has been pointed out it doesn't have any serial port boards and it took Allison's note to get me to wondering if there are even any on the CPU board... There are on my /23+'s, but not on my /23. There is a good chance that isn't a usable system. Besides if that is a complete system it's probably in a 4' 19" rack! Zane From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Aug 8 19:35:09 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: FW: Vintage Calculator Restore Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000808173509.0097add0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Got the attached in the evening's mail. If anyone on the list can help, please contact Mitch directly. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- >Delivered-To: kyrrin@mail-sttl.uswest.net >Delivered-To: alias-bluefeathertech.com-kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 20:03:52 -0400 >From: "mbillian" >To: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) >X-Accept-Language: en >Subject: Vintage Calculator Restore > >Bruce, was wondering if you might be able to help me restore a piece of >obselete equipment. I recently acquired a Compucorp 140 (nixie) desktop >calculator which works perfectly, however it's missing 3 keys: 'chg >sign' key, 'reset' key and the key with 2 bell shaped curves on it. I >would buy the keys or ones of the same style with different >markings. Let me know if you could suppy them or know of a source. >Here is a picture: >http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7510/compucorp140.html > >thanks > >Mitch > > > > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue Aug 8 19:03:41 2000 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions Message-ID: <000808200341.2020027c@trailing-edge.com> > Well, since you're into Linux, you might want to take a look at: > http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ > I'm not sure though if you'd be able to get any form of UNIX up on this > system. There's a binary V6 system in the PUPS Unix archives that will run on a 11/23 with 64K and attached RL02 drives. I rescued it from a pile at a UBC SERF sale about 4 years ago. Note that the "Standard" V6 system doesn't support RL02's; the exact lineage of this find hasn't been completely researched yet - and it may never be, as the sources haven't been found. Tim. From ncherry at home.net Tue Aug 8 19:58:36 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions References: <200008082346.QAA00443@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3990ACBC.70DF3FA@home.net> healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > > Well due to budget concerns (my wife and CFO :-) has nixed the ebid on > > the PDP 11-23. It can be found at: > > Smile, and keep your eyes open for a better system. As has been pointed out > it doesn't have any serial port boards and it took Allison's note to get me > to wondering if there are even any on the CPU board... There are on my > /23+'s, but not on my /23. There is a good chance that isn't a usable > system. Besides if that is a complete system it's probably in a 4' 19" rack! > > Zane Thanks for the words of encouragement! I do have an offer to pick up a VAX at the end of the year. A friend of a friend found out that I collect old computers and has offered me a VAX from the mid 80's that he describes as being 6 feet tall. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From lgwalker at look.ca Tue Aug 8 20:12:41 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: monitors Message-ID: <399077C9.3966.D34BD7A@localhost> I've been fascinated by micro-computer monitors for years. Possibly because my original Atari ST had such a convoluted 13pin interface. As a result I've tended to grab any monitor that didn't have a vanilla or plain 9pin or 15pin connector. Ditto when it comes to video cards. So the NEC series of multi-sync and other monitors with additional switches have been high on my collectables. The Amiga newsgroup is always full of queries regarding which Nec works with it (3C ?}. Similiarly each of the older platform newsgroups have the same questions. While I know Tony Duell and others have posted the video requirements of different systems, it has always been a bit of a grey area for me. For example what do the dip-switch settings on most of the configurable cards indicate ? Some of my monitors include a Radius full-page display, and I have a kit which supposedly allows a Mac+ to use it. A DEC VR201 with the retactible support pole and transporting handle which works on my DEC Rainbow. Tatung configurable, Tandy CM5, Several Hi-resolution configurable monitors Compaq and TVM ,Commodore 1402, Apple Color RGB (for A2 GS),Supermac rebadged Sony GDF1950, and Magnavoxes and NECs. However, I have yet to see a good FAQ regarding these monitors. There seems to be more info on the fixed freq. and sync on green and I have book from MS Press on IBM CGA thru VGA monitors but little on their configuration and platform-specific features. Possibly each mfg. issued a booklet with their monitors and the market wasn't big enough for a book. An area to explore. My system includes a JDH Videomate external box which is a TV to VGA converter and my main TV when not displaying computer-specific info. Again , a defunct company, so no info. ciao larry ciao larry lgwalker@look.ca walkers@altavista.net bigwalk@xoommail.com From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Tue Aug 8 20:30:36 2000 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions In-Reply-To: <000808200341.2020027c@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at "Aug 8, 2000 08:03:41 pm" Message-ID: <20000809013042Z433954-24748+415@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > > Well, since you're into Linux, you might want to take a look at: > > http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/ > > I'm not sure though if you'd be able to get any form of UNIX up on this > > system. > > There's a binary V6 system in the PUPS Unix archives that will run on a 11/23 > with 64K and attached RL02 drives. I rescued it from a pile at a UBC SERF sale > about 4 years ago. > > Note that the "Standard" V6 system doesn't support RL02's; the exact > lineage of this find hasn't been completely researched yet - and it may > never be, as the sources haven't been found. > > Tim. I might be able to help you a little bit on this. In the late 1970s and early 1980s a number of Canadian universities built V6 systems for PDP 11/23 based systems. These systems were relatively cheap and were great for teaching and some research. At the University of Toronto we build at least three systems for the undergraduate database course, and when I moved to McMaster University I built two for project courses. With some modifications to the kernel an 11/23 could support 6 or 7 students working on programming projects. I suspect the UBC system that you picked up served a similar purpose. -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Aug 8 20:39:32 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions Message-ID: <000c01c001a2$acfd3920$47099a8d@ajp166> >Smile, and keep your eyes open for a better system. As has been pointed out For 40$ thats not bad but it's incomplete unless the disks are there then it's much more. If you were seriously into PDP11 and shipping it didn't cost a bomb $40-50 isn't much for spares. >it doesn't have any serial port boards and it took Allison's note to get me >to wondering if there are even any on the CPU board... There are on my >/23+'s, but not on my /23. There is a good chance that isn't a usable >system. Serial cards are gotten cheap. The M8189 (11/23 and 11/23+ ) has two serial ports and the equvilent of the M8012 on it, the M8186 does not have anything but basic CPU so you need the M8012 and a serial line card or two. Either CPU can be used in the same box. Besides if that is a complete system it's probably in a 4' 19" rack! With RL01/2, RX01/2 and BA11S or N box that could be stuffed into a 36" small office rack, likely it's a 40, 48" or larger one. Allison From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Aug 9 02:37:16 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details In-Reply-To: <001201c00140$3a033f80$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: Hello Richard On 08-Aug-00, you wrote: > Now, THAT would be a handy part to have available at tne moment. Since it > apparent'y translates from the IIc's floppy port to the DISK-][ cable, it > would serve to move those same signals and supplies to an arbitrary > location. > > I was just contemplating how I'd have to cut a DB25P IDC in two and mill off > 6 pins' worth of connector and then glue it back together in order to make > it fit the IIc's floppy port. Too bad JameCo doesn't list that number any > longer. What I'll probably end up doing is soldering 19 appropriately > located pins into a PCB scrap intended for a DB25 and then soldering the > wires to the pins. It's unlikely I'll find an appropriately sized shell. If you are looking for a DB-19 connector check with Gateway Electronics in St. Louis. They have them in stock, male and female, and matching hoods. -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Aug 8 20:52:53 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions In-Reply-To: <000c01c001a2$acfd3920$47099a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Aug 08, 2000 09:39:32 PM Message-ID: <200008090152.SAA16761@shell1.aracnet.com> > For 40$ thats not bad but it's incomplete unless the disks are there then > it's much more. > > If you were seriously into PDP11 and shipping it didn't cost a bomb > $40-50 isn't much for spares. Yes, $40-50 isn't bad, but as mentioned you've got to consider shipping, plus it will probably go for quiet a bit more. > Serial cards are gotten cheap. The M8189 (11/23 and 11/23+ ) > has two serial ports and the equvilent of the M8012 on it, the M8186 > does not have anything but basic CPU so you need the M8012 > and a serial line card or two. Either CPU can be used in the same > box. Ah, OK. I should have known there was a /23 equivalent of the dual and quad hieght /73's. > With RL01/2, RX01/2 and BA11S or N box that could be stuffed into a 36" > small office rack, likely it's a 40, 48" or larger one. Hmmm, a 36" rack could be fun!!! Zane From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 8 21:07:54 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Palasm? References: <39898336.2AD76671@idirect.com><398CCA6C.ED370449@idirect.com> <3.0.1.16.20000808171906.3a6f4088@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <001401c001a6$a23bc980$0500c0a8@winbook> It's not for any particular family of programmers, Joe, but it would likely work as well with Data I/O as any, since DATA I/O was, and has always been, a leader in programming hardware. I've used it since the early '80's but my work has hovered over the low-end capabilities of the language. Now that it's obsolete, I'm trying to make up for all the stuff I didn't learn when it was mainstream. I've had people tell me about features I've never even read about, and there are plenty of them that I haven't used and HAVE read about. It's pretty simple if not compact, to do everything with logic equations, and that's what I've always done. Now I'm trying to catch up on the built-in state-machine dialects. They use several constructs which have carried forward, somewhat, into Verilog and VHDL, but not in the same way or with the same syntax as PALASM. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe To: Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 4:19 PM Subject: Re: Palasm? > Hi Dick, > > Do you mean the PalASM for the DataI/O programmers? I just got it but I > haven't tried to use it yet. Jeff Kaneko seems to be pretty knowledgeable > on this stuff but I don't know if he's still on this list or not. > > Joe > > At 08:53 PM 8/5/00 -0600, you wrote: > >Since Palasm is not only obsolete but well over 20 years old these days, I'm > >hoping somebody out there is more knowledgable about it than I. I've > >recently been pondering the various constructs that it supported and am > >having a LOT of trouble making it do what its manual claims it routinely > >does. > > > >I'd like to kick this oldie around a bit just to get past the point which > >served my purposes all these years. There are so many of its features I > >never used, e.g state machine syntax. I'm trying to get on top of that now, > >just for grins, but I'd surely like to kick this around with someone who > >knows it better than I. > > > >Any takers? > > > >Dick > > > > > > From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 8 21:14:21 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details References: Message-ID: <002201c001a7$880d19a0$0500c0a8@winbook> Yes, I'll do that, largely because they have a branch here in Denver and I've known Stu and Lou for over 25 years and know they'll sell whatever at top $$$. The connectors I've seen in the Denver store are the solder-type and I'd prefer the IDC type if available. Since the IDC connectors are plastic it's really easy to set one up in a milling machine and take an appropriately large chunk out of the middle, gluing the two halves back together afterward. I've done that several times when odd-sized connectors were needed. Since I'm in the prototyping business, I do whatever I can to make my stuff look like it was "meant to be that way," thereby avoiding the Rube Goldberg look. If they haven't got 'em in stock I'll have the boys call St. Louis and get me a set. Thanx for the info. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Hildebrand To: Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 1:37 AM Subject: Re: Apple IIc (not IIC+) details > Hello Richard > > On 08-Aug-00, you wrote: > > > Now, THAT would be a handy part to have available at tne moment. Since it > > apparent'y translates from the IIc's floppy port to the DISK-][ cable, it > > would serve to move those same signals and supplies to an arbitrary > > location. > > > > I was just contemplating how I'd have to cut a DB25P IDC in two and mill > off > > 6 pins' worth of connector and then glue it back together in order to make > > it fit the IIc's floppy port. Too bad JameCo doesn't list that number any > > longer. What I'll probably end up doing is soldering 19 appropriately > > located pins into a PCB scrap intended for a DB25 and then soldering the > > wires to the pins. It's unlikely I'll find an appropriately sized shell. > > If you are looking for a DB-19 connector check with Gateway Electronics in > St. Louis. They have them in stock, male and female, and matching hoods. > > -- > Gary Hildebrand > Box 6184 > St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 > > 816-662-2612 > or > > ghldbrd@ccp.com > > From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 8 21:17:47 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Has anybody got some SN75155's? References: <200008090152.SAA16761@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <002c01c001a8$0368b0a0$0500c0a8@winbook> This isn't entirely off-topic, since the parts have been around for WAY over 20 years. These things are an 8-pin package with one RS-232-compatible receiver/driver pair. There's a dearth of these parts here, for now, and if somebody would care to send me a couple of them, I'll happily reimburse for parts + shipping. Radio Shack lists them at $0.99 but doesn't have them in any of the stores I called. thanx Dick From Glenatacme at aol.com Tue Aug 8 21:28:59 2000 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Sony CPD 1302 Message-ID: In a message dated 08/08/2000 10:48:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ghldbrd@ccp.com writes: > According to the back > panel it is an analog RGB with a DB9 female input. Does anyone out there > have a pinout on that plug, or shall I attempt to contact Sony on this one?? > I am presuming that it is NTSC/CGA scan frequencies. We obtained a whole pallet of these two or three years ago, and still use one (too scarred-up to sell) for one of our test-bench monitors. When I asked the seller about the nine-pin connector he said they required a "multisync cable" and included them with the monitors. These are VGA monitors and I've run them up to 1024x768 with good results. Have fun! Glen 0/0 From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Aug 8 21:33:08 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: AS/400? References: Message-ID: <003401c001aa$27ea2ba0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Thompson" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 11:07 PM Subject: Re: AS/400? > I am not an especially big expert on AS/400's other than retrieving two > old CISC models this year. (Kinda like staying at a holiday inn, I guess) > > It depends on the model, but often one needs a twinax terminal set for 0,0 > to act as a console. This box seems to have no twinax access. AFAICT, it was actually used with some 'clone' terminals, the twinax ones that came with it were apparently for an earlier incarnation of the system, probably thrown in a store room til the whole thing was axed.. > documentation indicates that some models of 9402 CISC machine could > actually take ASCII consoles, so perhaps there were models in the RISC > variety that were this way too if you're lucky. Hmm, I did try a VT320 into what I thought might be the console, but some of the online docs suggest it needs a magic cable of some description. > I believe if it is black is a RISC based machine. It's a Version 3 AS/400 (whatever that means). No other info yet. Dates on the drives seem to be circa 94. > > 2612 x 1 (A chance encounter in a newsgroup reveals this is an EIA > > 232/V.24 One-Line Adapter) I translate that as a serial port. > > I think it is intended for a support modem. Makes sense. I have a cable that suggests it was for a remote control box of some kind that would appear to fit that hole. > It will be ugly since ethernet is a licen$ed feature on AS/400. yeah, that'd be right. > Speaking of which, you will probably need the system password, an enormous > hex number which allows the software to continue working. seems to depend on what version/OS it's running. Other information suggests it's probably OS/400 V3R2 or thereabouts rather than SSP. > My documentation which came with my CISC 9402 even indicates that there > are movement sensors in some machines which will trigger if large > movements are detected and prompt for the system password. I've had a look for anything like that. The size of this suggests it would not have such a feature, as it's only the size of a biggish pc based file server > attempt to thwart people selling the machines without sending proper dowry > to IBM. Often times the machine will run for 90 days or so without a > system password but eventually on IPL one is needed for it to continue to > function. Paranoia, without a doubt. > This, combined with my lack of twinax infrastructure caused my CISC > machines to make the ultimate sacrifice. Properly reformatted they > provide nice IBM scsi drives for my more usable machines. I have some twinax 3180 terms, and some cables, but this AS/400 seems not to have the hardware to speak to them. If all else fails, I can use 4 x 1Gb SCSI's in my Vaxstation 4000-90. (With the right adapter anyway, the connectors on the drives are not the standard internal bare pin type, but the Honda type normally found on the outside of a case.) Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Aug 8 21:36:04 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions Message-ID: <002401c001aa$cb5d2080$47099a8d@ajp166> From: healyzh@aracnet.com >Yes, $40-50 isn't bad, but as mentioned you've got to consider shipping, plus >it will probably go for quiet a bit more. Never ship a PDP-11... way to heavy. >Ah, OK. I should have known there was a /23 equivalent of the dual and quad >hieght /73's. Yep! M8189 come in two flavors, the difference is the roms. The +(B) will boot MSCP while the older ones don't know the RQDXn Controller. The 11/23+ (11/23B) was used in the BA23 box aka micro pdp11/53. >> With RL01/2, RX01/2 and BA11S or N box that could be stuffed into a 36" >> small office rack, likely it's a 40, 48" or larger one. > >Hmmm, a 36" rack could be fun!!! I've set up two RL02 and a RX02 in a 48" rack with BA11S and a few filler pannels. A 36" rack is very doable too. The RX02 is ~11in, the RL01/2 is ~12in and BA11S/N boxes are ~6" you might get that in a 30" rack. An 11/23 with 256kb and RL02s will run V7 if it's not the I&D version. Allison From retro at retrobits.com Tue Aug 8 23:17:04 2000 From: retro at retrobits.com (Earl Evans) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: Web page for ClassicCmp info Message-ID: <000c01c001b8$ac8b6280$6401640a@easystreet.com> Hi everybody, I'm (finally) getting around to write Part III of the "Collecting" article on retrobits.com. I'd like to include a web page reference for parties interested in getting more info (and subscribing) to the ClassicCmp list. I found multiple info sites out there, but it's not clear to me which is the most up-to-date and authoritative. Can someone provide me the "official" web page for ClassicCmp? (Or at least, where should I send folks who want to find out more...) Thanks! - Earl Earl Evans retro@retrobits.com Enjoy retrocomputing today! Visit the Retrobits web site at http://www.retrobits.com From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Aug 8 23:25:06 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:46 2005 Subject: AS/400? References: <010f01c00104$0b075220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <20000808194834.26884.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <004001c001b9$cca4bde0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 5:18 AM Subject: Re: AS/400? > "Geoff Roberts" wrote: > > Anyone out there know anything about IBM AS/400's? > [...] > > I picked up a Type 9402-2xx with 4 x Type 0662 1.05Gb SCSI Hard drives > There'll be a list of all the 9402 series. You presumably want > 9402-200, unless what you have is a 9402-236 or 9402-20S Good question. The model number on the sticker at the base of the black front plastic shroud is given literally as "Type 9402-2xx" with "xxx" not numbers after the 2. The S/N is 10-1428A does that help at all? The drives are apparently SCSI-2 with the Honda mini connectors not the standard SCSI bare pins (like oversize ide), they are what you find on the back of Decstations and the like. Never seen one on a drive before. The drives have dates from 94 or later. Front label suggests it came with 2 from the factory, so it would seem the others were added later. > Note that since your machine is CISC-based, Er actually, this is a circa 1994 machine, with the black plastic shroud/case over the metal cabinet, and I was informed elsewhere that this indicates a RISC machine.... Is there an easy way to confirm this? The docs on the IBM site prove it to be a "Version 3 AS/400 Advanced System", (the badge on the front says AS/400 Advanced) which I would have bet meant RISC machine. Is there a simple way to tell? > and software licenses are NOT transferrable, so you > will have to buy an OS/400 license from IBM. We're talking really big > bucks. :-( > Like for VMS before hobbyist licenses sorta. Yeah. > Also, if you ever have to reinstall the software from scratch, you will > need a MULIC (Model-Unique Licensed Internal Code) tape. If at all > possible, try to get this from the seller. Ex auction, if I ever get the beast up and running, I can probably trace the owner. > Also, under certain circumstances the computer will as for a system > password at IPL time. If you don't have a system password, you will > be given the opportunity to use the system for up to 70 days (IIRC), > after which time you will no longer be able to IPL. I'm told that if > the system is powered off for a long time, that's one of the conditions > that will cause it to ask for a system password. If you need a system > password, you'll have to pay big bucks to IBM. > > Because of these problems, I'd strongly recommend that anyone interested > in acquiring an AS/400 try to get a newer RISC-based model instead. With > the RISC-based models, the software licenses are transferrable. So this is only an issue on the CISC versions I take it? > I have a 9406-B45 and another 9406 which I have not yet identified. > I've put some links at: > > http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/ibm/as400/ Didn't help much. The Mid Blue list looks interesting, but the features in this box don't seem to be listed there. If the stuff it refers to are for the earlier CISC boxes, and IF this is a RISC machine, that would be why I guess. I'm actually starting to wonder if this is actually an AS/400 or whether it's an expansion box for one. I've yet to identify a CPU anywhere, and some of the stuff I read suggests it's a plug in module. That might mean we have a disk/tape controller, and IOP to communicate with the rest of the system, and some access/control modules. OTOH, I don't know if this version of the AS/400 made use of expansion boxes like the earlier ones. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Aug 8 23:54:08 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: WTT: M8207 anyone? Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000808215248.00ae6c40@208.226.86.10> Hi, I've got several Unibus LP11 interfaces and I was wondering if anyone was interested in trading a couple for M8207's (Q-bus version) of same? I'd like to put a centronics printer port on my VAX and test out some code in NetBSD for said port. --Chuck From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Aug 8 23:50:25 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: AS/400? References: <010f01c00104$0b075220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <20000808194834.26884.qmail@brouhaha.com> <004001c001b9$cca4bde0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <010101c001bd$5a80a180$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Anyone have a pinout for the "magic cable" listed below. It's the console cable for an IBM AS/400. It's just a DB25M-DB25F, but has some magic wiring to make it work as a console. | Feature Code | Cable Length | Part Number | |_____________________|_____________________|_____________________| | 9026 | 6 m (20 ft) | 46G0450 | |_____________________|_____________________|_____________________| | 9027 | 2.5 m (8 ft) | 46G0479 | |_____________________|_____________________|_____________________| Thanks Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Aug 9 01:01:40 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: AS/400? In-Reply-To: <004001c001b9$cca4bde0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> (geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au) References: <010f01c00104$0b075220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <20000808194834.26884.qmail@brouhaha.com> <004001c001b9$cca4bde0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <20000809060140.2017.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Geoff Roberts" wrote: >> Note that since your machine is CISC-based, > > Er actually, this is a circa 1994 machine, with the black plastic > shroud/case over the > metal cabinet, and I was informed elsewhere that this indicates a RISC > machine.... I believe that to be false. The IBMLink sales information for that model says that it runs OS/400 V3R1 or V3R2, which only run on CISC models. RISC models run V3R7 or V4Rx. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Aug 9 01:28:48 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: AS/400? References: <010f01c00104$0b075220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <20000808194834.26884.qmail@brouhaha.com> <004001c001b9$cca4bde0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <20000809060140.2017.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <012601c001cb$149d0ec0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 3:31 PM Subject: Re: AS/400? > "Geoff Roberts" wrote: > >> Note that since your machine is CISC-based, > > > > Er actually, this is a circa 1994 machine, with the black plastic > > shroud/case over the > > metal cabinet, and I was informed elsewhere that this indicates a RISC > > machine.... > > I believe that to be false. The IBMLink sales information for that > model says that it runs OS/400 V3R1 or V3R2, which only run on CISC models. > RISC models run V3R7 or V4Rx. Ok, thanks for that. I'll try and confirm it locally. I take it this is probably a Type 9402-200 then? Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob at stmarks dot pp dot catholic dot edu dot au ICQ: 1970476 From Jgzabol at aol.com Wed Aug 9 01:41:48 2000 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: Palasm? Message-ID: In einer eMail vom 8/9/100 3:17:33AM, schreiben Sie: << I've used it since the early '80's but my work has hovered over the low-end capabilities of the language. Now that it's obsolete, I'm trying to make up for all the stuff I didn't learn when it was mainstream. I've had people tell me about features I've never even read about, and there are plenty of them that I haven't used and HAVE read about. It's pretty simple if not compact, to do everything with logic equations, and that's what I've always done. Now I'm trying to catch up on the built-in state-machine dialects. They use several constructs which have carried forward, somewhat, into Verilog and VHDL, but not in the same way or with the same syntax as PALASM. >> It occured to me that the quite modern and today mainstream language Abel has somewhat similar constructs, and is part of most modern electronic CAD systems. While having retained quite some similarity with PALASM, it may be closer to today's tools like VHDL. Regards John G. Zabolitzky From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed Aug 9 05:42:56 2000 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions Message-ID: <000809064256.202002a9@trailing-edge.com> >> There's a binary V6 system in the PUPS Unix archives that will run on a 11/23 >> with 64K and attached RL02 drives. I rescued it from a pile at a UBC SERF sale >> about 4 years ago. >> >> Note that the "Standard" V6 system doesn't support RL02's; the exact >> lineage of this find hasn't been completely researched yet - and it may >> never be, as the sources haven't been found. >I might be able to help you a little bit on this. In the late 1970s >and early 1980s a number of Canadian universities built V6 systems >for PDP 11/23 based systems. These systems were relatively cheap >and were great for teaching and some research. At the University of >Toronto we build at least three systems for the undergraduate >database course, and when I moved to McMaster University I built two >for project courses. With some modifications to the kernel an 11/23 >could support 6 or 7 students working on programming projects. > >I suspect the UBC system that you picked up served a similar purpose. Any idea who might have a copy of the modifications to the V6 source to support RL02's? It'd be wonderful to put that into the PUPS archive. This particular V6 system is indeed a very nice environment for someone with a "small" 11/23 and RL02 drives. That particular 11/23 system from UBC was used in the biology department, judging by the non-system files found on the "user" disk. Tim. From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Aug 9 05:59:11 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: Palasm? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000808171906.3a6f4088@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 08 Aug 2000 17:19:06 -0500 Joe wrote: > Do you mean the PalASM for the DataI/O programmers? I just got it but I > haven't tried to use it yet. Jeff Kaneko seems to be pretty knowledgeable > on this stuff but I don't know if he's still on this list or not. I also have a Data I/O (Model 29 I think) which has a plug-in module for Palasm. No manuals, though, and I've never tried it out. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From at258 at osfn.org Wed Aug 9 08:16:37 2000 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: help In-Reply-To: <200008082312.QAA11674@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: Does anyone have Doug Quebbeman's email address? I've lost a bunch of messages. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 9 09:38:50 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions Message-ID: Heh, PDP-11's are *light*... the last computer I had shipped to me, which was only the CPU, disk controller, and hard drive, along with a terminal, a graphics interface box, 2 terminal controllers and a rack of manuals weighed in at 5700 pounds... The trick with shipping big stuff is to get it from big companies, and then instead of choosing the shipper yourself, you ask them who they use most, and have them coordinate it in-house... It's truly disgusting how much of a break the big shippers get versus a single-time shipment from somewhere... As an example, the 5700lbs of stuff cost me $801.80 to ship, whereas my Burroughs B80, which they said weighs 800lbs (yeah right!), they rated it as if it weighed 1000lbs, and for that single machine it cost $817.07 or so... The rate on the 5700lbs was like 31 bucks a mile and the other one was 81 a mile, but since the 5700lbs was shipped by a major user of the carrier, I got like a $1500 "Incentive" i.e. discount... Talk about highway robbery! Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Wed Aug 9 11:50:55 2000 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: PDP 11-23 questions In-Reply-To: <000809064256.202002a9@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at "Aug 9, 2000 06:42:56 am" Message-ID: <20000809165107Z434085-21910+121@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> > >> There's a binary V6 system in the PUPS Unix archives that will run on a 11/23 > >> with 64K and attached RL02 drives. I rescued it from a pile at a UBC SERF sale > >> about 4 years ago. > >> > >> Note that the "Standard" V6 system doesn't support RL02's; the exact > >> lineage of this find hasn't been completely researched yet - and it may > >> never be, as the sources haven't been found. > > >I might be able to help you a little bit on this. In the late 1970s > >and early 1980s a number of Canadian universities built V6 systems > >for PDP 11/23 based systems. These systems were relatively cheap > >and were great for teaching and some research. At the University of > >Toronto we build at least three systems for the undergraduate > >database course, and when I moved to McMaster University I built two > >for project courses. With some modifications to the kernel an 11/23 > >could support 6 or 7 students working on programming projects. > > > >I suspect the UBC system that you picked up served a similar purpose. > > Any idea who might have a copy of the modifications to the V6 source to > support RL02's? It'd be wonderful to put that into the PUPS archive. I might still have the source for the drivers. I'm in the process of moving to a new office, and all my stuff is packed in boxes so it might be difficult to find, if I still have it. At one point I had a 9 track tape with a V6 file system that should have the souce for the drivers. I also had it online here at one point, and it still might be around somewhere. The brief history of my version is that it started as a RL01 driver at the University of Toronto. I modified it to support RL02 drives, overlapped seeks, and a better scheduling algorithm for seeks. The modification for RL02 drives was fairly easy, I just needed to change a few statements, the other modifications were a bit more complex. > > This particular V6 system is indeed a very nice environment for someone > with a "small" 11/23 and RL02 drives. > > That particular 11/23 system from UBC was used in the biology department, > judging by the non-system files found on the "user" disk. > The base system may have started out at UBC's CS department, or it may have come from Zoology at UofT. Henry Spencer would definitely know about the V6 mods we made at UofT (he may even have been involved, but my memory isn't that good anymore). -- Dr. Mark Green mark@cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada From richard at idcomm.com Wed Aug 9 13:51:23 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: Palasm? References: Message-ID: <000a01c00232$d1b82320$0500c0a8@winbook> A plug in module for PALASM? What would give you that idea? I've seen only one place on a model 29 for anything to plug in, and that's the programming site. (there are several different ones) The data was typically fed to the Model 29 via a serial port, and in JEDEC form. The model 29 translated the jedec file into whatever signals were needed to program the device. The last time I used a model 29 was in '85. They were already pretty old back then and wouldn't program the then new Altera parts and Lattice parts I was using. That was later fixed, but too late for me. I bought a cheapie that still works . . . Is there a feature that plugs in the intelligence to compile Palasm files into the JEDEC? I'd be VERY surprised to learn that. When the local surplus dealer move out of state, he tossed about a dozen of these model 29 units into the dumpster. Since they had no programming sites, I left them there. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: John Honniball To: Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 4:59 AM Subject: Re: Palasm? > > On Tue, 08 Aug 2000 17:19:06 -0500 Joe > wrote: > > Do you mean the PalASM for the DataI/O programmers? I just got it but I > > haven't tried to use it yet. Jeff Kaneko seems to be pretty knowledgeable > > on this stuff but I don't know if he's still on this list or not. > > I also have a Data I/O (Model 29 I think) which has a > plug-in module for Palasm. No manuals, though, and I've > never tried it out. > > -- > John Honniball > Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > University of the West of England > > From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Aug 9 16:16:46 2000 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: "Cheap" PAL/GAL programmers... (was: Palasm?) In-Reply-To: <000a01c00232$d1b82320$0500c0a8@winbook> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000809171646.02b4d100@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Richard Erlacher may have mentioned these words: [snip] >The last time I used a model 29 was in '85. They were already pretty old >back then and wouldn't program the then new Altera parts and Lattice parts I >was using. That was later fixed, but too late for me. I bought a cheapie >that still works . . . Define "cheapie..." This (well, at least for me) is on topic, because I've always wanted to get into PAL/GAL/Programmable Logic to "play" with to make projects on upgrading various classic systems that I have... but a few C-notes is too much for me to dedicate to a "toy" right now. Anyone know of a good source for older programmers that would cost in the $20-50 (USD) range? Thanks, "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 9 16:32:18 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: monitors In-Reply-To: <399077C9.3966.D34BD7A@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 8, 0 09:12:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 9219 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000809/7d51718a/attachment.ksh From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Aug 9 17:24:16 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: monitors In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Aug 9, 0 10:32:18 pm" Message-ID: <200008092224.PAA08620@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Commodore used a somewhat odd system on some of their machines. A > composite mono video signal carrying the sync and luminance information > and a separate chrominance signal carrying the colour information (which > was encoded much like the chrominance part of a TV signal). What was odd about this? I thought this was conventional S-video. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Time wounds all heels. -- Groucho Marx ------------------------------------- From louiss at gate.net Wed Aug 9 17:36:38 2000 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: "Cheap" PAL/GAL programmers... (was: Palasm?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20000809171646.02b4d100@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <200008092236.SAA97450@shasta.gate.net> I have a "Structured Design Incorporated SD1000 PAL Burner" which communicates with a pc through the serial port. I don't have the manual or any software(if needed), but I did see what looked like some sort of menu when I used a terminal program to test it. I imagine it dates from the mid-80's, but it looks like new. It has an external power supply, a 24-pin ZIF socket, selectable baud rate, a serial socket, a socket labeled "e-pac", burn and verify buttons, and pass/fail lights. I don't guarantee this machine will do anything useful. But if someone would like it for $30+shipping (it is light), it is yours. Louis On Wed, 09 Aug 2000 17:16:46 -0400, Roger Merchberger wrote: >Rumor has it that Richard Erlacher may have mentioned these words: > >[snip] > >>The last time I used a model 29 was in '85. They were already pretty old >>back then and wouldn't program the then new Altera parts and Lattice parts I >>was using. That was later fixed, but too late for me. I bought a cheapie >>that still works . . . > >Define "cheapie..." > >This (well, at least for me) is on topic, because I've always wanted to get >into PAL/GAL/Programmable Logic to "play" with to make projects on >upgrading various classic systems that I have... but a few C-notes is too >much for me to dedicate to a "toy" right now. > >Anyone know of a good source for older programmers that would cost in the >$20-50 (USD) range? > >Thanks, >"Merch" >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > >If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead >disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 9 17:30:21 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: monitors In-Reply-To: <200008092224.PAA08620@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Aug 9, 0 03:24:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 488 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000809/37dac948/attachment.ksh From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Aug 9 17:43:55 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? Message-ID: <002a01c00253$73542790$3c099a8d@ajp166> From: Chuck McManis To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Hi, I've got several Unibus LP11 interfaces and I was wondering if anyone >was interested in trading a couple for M8207's (Q-bus version) of same? I'd >like to put a centronics printer port on my VAX and test out some code in >NetBSD for said port. M8207?? For unibus or what? LPV11 for Qbus is M8027 (lp05/la180) but with the right cable kit also work with LP25/26/27, LN01 and a few others with data products I/F It wouldn't be hard to use that with Centronics. other choices are M7941 (DRV11 parallel line unit) or LAV11 printer interface(M7949). for most small vaxen the serial interfaced DEC printers was the common choice. (La50, LA75, LA100, LA210, LA120, LA180, LN03). Allison From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Aug 9 18:16:57 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? In-Reply-To: <002a01c00253$73542790$3c099a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000809161431.00cb14d0@208.226.86.10> Allison's right, an M8027, LPV11 (Q-bus version of the LP11). I'm not interested in driving a printer with it, I want to talk to a Zip Drive. As long as I can create a "Centronics" compatible interface (even with all 8 data bits being output only) I have a chance of getting it to talk to the zip drive. That would give me 100 MB of removable storage, on a PDP-11 that would be like heaven. --Chuck At 06:43 PM 8/9/00 -0400, you wrote: >From: Chuck McManis >To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > >Hi, I've got several Unibus LP11 interfaces and I was wondering if >anyone > >was interested in trading a couple for M8207's (Q-bus version) of same? >I'd > >like to put a centronics printer port on my VAX and test out some code >in > >NetBSD for said port. > > >M8207?? For unibus or what? > >LPV11 for Qbus is M8027 (lp05/la180) but with the right cable kit also >work with LP25/26/27, LN01 and a few others with data products I/F >It wouldn't be hard to use that with Centronics. > >other choices are M7941 (DRV11 parallel line unit) or LAV11 printer >interface(M7949). > >for most small vaxen the serial interfaced DEC printers was >the common choice. (La50, LA75, LA100, LA210, LA120, LA180, LN03). > >Allison From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Aug 9 18:20:08 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: monitors In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Aug 9, 0 11:30:21 pm" Message-ID: <200008092320.QAA11414@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > Commodore used a somewhat odd system on some of their machines. A > > > composite mono video signal carrying the sync and luminance information > > > and a separate chrominance signal carrying the colour information (which > > > was encoded much like the chrominance part of a TV signal). > > > > What was odd about this? I thought this was conventional S-video. > > OK, yes it is, but it's odd in the sense that Commodore were (AFAIK) the > only computer manufacturer to use it. And that makes Commodore monitors even more useful as S-video displays :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TRUE HEADLINE: Miners Refuse To Work After Death --------------------------- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Aug 9 19:21:48 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: Monitors that are keepers? In-Reply-To: References: <399077C9.3966.D34BD7A@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" at Aug 8, 0 09:12:41 pm Message-ID: Which monitors are the ones to look for and keep? Yesterday I was looking at an old 20" NEC Multisync, I think the model was JC20 something, and I ended up leaving it behind (ran out of time, didn't know if it was a "good" monitor, or even worked). It "looked" neat, but old. Monitors, especially the big ones take up HUGE amounts of storage, don't stack well, and break easily if dropped. I have less than 20 right now, but they are still one of the first items I look to when I want some space. What are some of the good monitors to keep? (repeating myself I know) Right now I have (3) 2086A3SG Silicon Graphics monitors (2) HP 1097C 1 20" RasterOPs 1 Viking Moniterm monochrome two page 1 Sigma Design high res gray scale (lab view I think, 1600x1200). 1 Radius TPD (3) Radius Color Pivots (3) Radius B&W pivots 1 CTX 1765 color 1 Optiquest Q73 17" color (8) Apple 13 RGB high res half a dozen various small monochrome and NTSC 1 Sony 1304 1 Atari something Pretty obviously this is too many, and the list doesn't include all in one systems or a couple DEC VT420 terminals I just added. Many of them are in limbo, where I haven't gotten them to work yet, but I "think" they are OK, which isn't quite good enough to sell them or use them. I want to have monitors for everything I have to play with, which includes an IBM 5150 and a HP 735/50, but have pretty much decided I am NOT going to start collecting Commodore or Atari (very much, maybe an Amiga and something like a 1200XL). Suggestions? From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Aug 9 18:38:52 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? In-Reply-To: <002a01c00253$73542790$3c099a8d@ajp166> from ajp166 at "Aug 9, 2000 06:43:55 pm" Message-ID: <200008092338.SAA10150@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I have one M7941 that I pulled from some equipment a couple months ago, I can only assume its in working condition. If you need it Chuck, its yours. -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu > From: Chuck McManis > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > >Hi, I've got several Unibus LP11 interfaces and I was wondering if > anyone > >was interested in trading a couple for M8207's (Q-bus version) of same? > I'd > >like to put a centronics printer port on my VAX and test out some code > in > >NetBSD for said port. > > > M8207?? For unibus or what? > > LPV11 for Qbus is M8027 (lp05/la180) but with the right cable kit also > work with LP25/26/27, LN01 and a few others with data products I/F > It wouldn't be hard to use that with Centronics. > > other choices are M7941 (DRV11 parallel line unit) or LAV11 printer > interface(M7949). > > for most small vaxen the serial interfaced DEC printers was > the common choice. (La50, LA75, LA100, LA210, LA120, LA180, LN03). > > Allison > From louiss at gate.net Wed Aug 9 19:37:22 2000 From: louiss at gate.net (Louis Schulman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: Monitors that are keepers? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200008100037.UAA120814@cocopah.gate.net> The ones I keep are the NEC Multisync II, Sony CPD-1304, and the various versions and clones of the Commodore 1084. And specialty ones, like the DEC 241 for color on the Rainbow and Pro 350. Mitsubishi also made a DiamondScan with abilities like the NEC, Sony and Commodore. Most of yours I would throw out. Louis On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:21:48 -0800, Mike Ford wrote: >Which monitors are the ones to look for and keep? > >Yesterday I was looking at an old 20" NEC Multisync, I think the model was >JC20 something, and I ended up leaving it behind (ran out of time, didn't >know if it was a "good" monitor, or even worked). It "looked" neat, but old. > >Monitors, especially the big ones take up HUGE amounts of storage, don't >stack well, and break easily if dropped. I have less than 20 right now, but >they are still one of the first items I look to when I want some space. > >What are some of the good monitors to keep? (repeating myself I know) > >Right now I have > >(3) 2086A3SG Silicon Graphics monitors >(2) HP 1097C >1 20" RasterOPs >1 Viking Moniterm monochrome two page >1 Sigma Design high res gray scale (lab view I think, 1600x1200). >1 Radius TPD >(3) Radius Color Pivots >(3) Radius B&W pivots >1 CTX 1765 color >1 Optiquest Q73 17" color >(8) Apple 13 RGB high res >half a dozen various small monochrome and NTSC >1 Sony 1304 >1 Atari something > >Pretty obviously this is too many, and the list doesn't include all in one >systems or a couple DEC VT420 terminals I just added. Many of them are in >limbo, where I haven't gotten them to work yet, but I "think" they are OK, >which isn't quite good enough to sell them or use them. > >I want to have monitors for everything I have to play with, which includes >an IBM 5150 and a HP 735/50, but have pretty much decided I am NOT going to >start collecting Commodore or Atari (very much, maybe an Amiga and >something like a 1200XL). Suggestions? > > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 9 19:39:25 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? Message-ID: That would give me 100 MB of removable storage, on a PDP-11 that would be like heaven. Err.. wouldn't it be more like, on a PDP-11 that would be like 1/2 of an RA60? Heh.. Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 9 19:42:43 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000809161431.00cb14d0@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Aug 09, 2000 04:16:57 PM Message-ID: <200008100042.RAA10397@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Allison's right, an M8027, LPV11 (Q-bus version of the LP11). I'm not > interested in driving a printer with it, I want to talk to a Zip Drive. As > long as I can create a "Centronics" compatible interface (even with all 8 > data bits being output only) I have a chance of getting it to talk to the > zip drive. That would give me 100 MB of removable storage, on a PDP-11 that > would be like heaven. > > --Chuck Is the LPV11 a bi-directional port? If you're trying to talk to a Parellel port Zip Drive I believe that will require a bi-directional port. Personally for my PDP-11/73 I'm using removable PC SCSI Disk Sleds, this allows me to use 3.5" SCSI HD's as removable media. I've got two drive bays in the PDP-11 and another in my Linux box. Plus I've got a bunch of identical SCSI HD's. The drive bay in my Linux box allows me to make disk images of the PDP-11's SCSI HD's. Of course this solution requires you to have a SCSI Adapter for your PDP-11. Zane From dburrows at netpath.net Wed Aug 9 19:49:51 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? Message-ID: <054b01c00265$3d8e9200$a652e780@L166> Just hang it on a SCSI controller. If it is an internal SCSI zip you can set the SCSI id to whatever you want. If it is an external you will have to use the CMD/Emulex or whatever firmware to map ID 5or 6 to something lower. The other aleternative is to leave it at 5 and SYSGEN 7 DU devices to your SCSI controller. (My archive system is that way) RSX11M+ V4.6 warns you but allows it. In fact that system is doing another sysgen as I type this. Had to add a few other devices. I have routinely used various ZIP and JAZ drives on both CMD CQD220T/M and Emulex UC08's. However with the batch of RZ25's I got 6 + months ago I have gone to using them as ZIP drives. They were cheaper than ZIP media. They also don't eject themselves when you dismount them. I had to come back up to the office a while back when I dismounted one my mistake from the house via telnet. Dan Subject: Re: M8207 anyone? >Allison's right, an M8027, LPV11 (Q-bus version of the LP11). I'm not >interested in driving a printer with it, I want to talk to a Zip Drive. As >long as I can create a "Centronics" compatible interface (even with all 8 >data bits being output only) I have a chance of getting it to talk to the >zip drive. That would give me 100 MB of removable storage, on a PDP-11 that >would be like heaven. > >--Chuck > >At 06:43 PM 8/9/00 -0400, you wrote: >>From: Chuck McManis >>To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> >> >> >Hi, I've got several Unibus LP11 interfaces and I was wondering if >>anyone >> >was interested in trading a couple for M8207's (Q-bus version) of same? >>I'd >> >like to put a centronics printer port on my VAX and test out some code >>in >> >NetBSD for said port. >> >> >>M8207?? For unibus or what? >> >>LPV11 for Qbus is M8027 (lp05/la180) but with the right cable kit also >>work with LP25/26/27, LN01 and a few others with data products I/F >>It wouldn't be hard to use that with Centronics. >> >>other choices are M7941 (DRV11 parallel line unit) or LAV11 printer >>interface(M7949). >> >>for most small vaxen the serial interfaced DEC printers was >>the common choice. (La50, LA75, LA100, LA210, LA120, LA180, LN03). >> >>Allison From dburrows at netpath.net Wed Aug 9 20:21:01 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? Message-ID: <057301c00269$60dd9590$a652e780@L166> Subject: Re: M8207 anyone? >That would give me 100 MB of removable storage, on a PDP-11 that >would be like heaven. Err.. wouldn't it be more like, on a PDP-11 that >would be like 1/2 of an RA60? Heh.. > >Will J My archive RSX11M+ system currently has 2) 9Gb and 1) 3 Gb drives on it. Along with the 1GB boot, a CDROM and a ZIP. RZ25's get swapped more often than the ZIP gets used now however. It also has a quad density 9 track, TZ30, and a 4mm for tapes. The only DEC item in it are grant cards and a DELQA Dan From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Aug 9 20:28:29 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: AS/400? References: <010f01c00104$0b075220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <20000808194834.26884.qmail@brouhaha.com> <004001c001b9$cca4bde0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <20000809060140.2017.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <003601c0026a$4a5be820$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Smith" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 3:31 PM Subject: Re: AS/400? > I believe that to be false. The IBMLink sales information for that > model says that it runs OS/400 V3R1 or V3R2, which only run on CISC models. > RISC models run V3R7 or V4Rx. Further to this: Now I'm really confused...... Check out this:- http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400945276 9402 OR 9404 Model 400 WITH 2131 Processor w/V4R3 LICENSED SOFTWARE INSTALLED!!!(9402-400 AND 9404-400 ARE THE SAME, THE 9404-400 IS JUST A UPGRADED MODEL ) READY FOR YOUR DEVELOPMENT PROJECT, A SOFTWARE TEST MACHINE OR THIS BOX WILL RUN A SMALL TO MEDIUM BUSINESS!!!!!!!!! 224MB Main Storage.... 16GB DASD... 6390 7GB 8MM Tape Drive.... 7108 CARD EXPANSION FEATURE.... 5135 FEATURE POWER SUPPLY .... 2617 ETHERNET ADAPTER & Ethernet Transceiver 2619 TOKEN RING ADAPTER BASE CD-ROM 9148 TWINAX SUPPORT 40 DEVICES My machine looks EXACTLY like this one, except it doesn't have a CDROM. It doesn't have this much ram etc either, but I was under the impression that the CISC machines are in a different outer case to the RISC boxes. Like I said, now I'm really confused......... Is there more than one type 9402??? ie one CISC, one RISC? One other person has suggested the CISC machines (Version 1 and 2 AS/400) are in a grey case. Who knows. Getting anything useful out of IBM or their web site except for the latest and greatest version is about as simple as getting a bank loan. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Aug 9 20:27:37 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? Message-ID: <005501c0026b$23de95c0$3c099a8d@ajp166> >Allison's right, an M8027, LPV11 (Q-bus version of the LP11). I'm not >interested in driving a printer with it, I want to talk to a Zip Drive. As >long as I can create a "Centronics" compatible interface (even with all 8 >data bits being output only) I have a chance of getting it to talk to the >zip drive. That would give me 100 MB of removable storage, on a PDP-11 that >would be like heaven. > >--Chuck Read up on parallel ports for PC first, the M8027 WILL NOT be sufficient. Most parallel ports ahve enough bidirectional lines and the 8bit data is bidirectional (only the old XT ports aren't). Look into a m7941 (DRV11) parallel line unit sa that give you lots of bits for parallel IO. Another would be the M7950 DRV-11B general purpose DMA interface (also a parallel IO). The latest one was the DRV-11J (M8049) and that has enough lines to interface anything (32 in and 32 out). The later boards could possibly even be enough to fake the IDE interface directly. Even an old clunky 120mb WD2120 would seem large! Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Aug 9 20:34:40 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? Message-ID: <005e01c0026d$3e0e76c0$3c099a8d@ajp166> >Allison's right, an M8027, LPV11 (Q-bus version of the LP11). I'm not >interested in driving a printer with it, I want to talk to a Zip Drive. As >long as I can create a "Centronics" compatible interface (even with all 8 >data bits being output only) I have a chance of getting it to talk to the >zip drive. That would give me 100 MB of removable storage, on a PDP-11 that >would be like heaven. > >--Chuck Read up on parallel ports for PC first, the M8027 WILL NOT be sufficient. Most parallel ports ahve enough bidirectional lines and the 8bit data is bidirectional (only the old XT ports aren't). Look into a m7941 (DRV11) parallel line unit sa that give you lots of bits for parallel IO. Another would be the M7950 DRV-11B general purpose DMA interface (also a parallel IO). The latest one was the DRV-11J (M8049) and that has enough lines to interface anything (32 in and 32 out). The later boards could possibly even be enough to fake the IDE interface directly. Even an old clunky 120mb WD2120 would seem large! Seriously someone has done a Qbus IDE interface adn it's fairly trivial task. Considering that CDroms, IDE ZIPs, Superdisks and even big hard drives all can be found real cheap this has appeal. What makes it mildly hard to do is PDP-11 (Q, U or any) All do a read before write and IDE control registers don't like that. So you have to do like the DL cards were the TX and RX registers are different addresses. I might add that IDE is much faster than ZIP drives, I have a Parallel port IDE disk and a Syquest 270 and both scream compared to ZIP. Allison From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 9 20:58:49 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? In-Reply-To: <005e01c0026d$3e0e76c0$3c099a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: > >long as I can create a "Centronics" compatible interface (even with all > 8 > >data bits being output only) I have a chance of getting it to talk to > the > >zip drive. That would give me 100 MB of removable storage, on a PDP-11 > that > >would be like heaven. > > > >--Chuck If it would help, I have an external SCSI 100M ZIP that I would gladly trade for a parallel port one. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com PO Box 1236 (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94701-1236 From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Aug 9 21:02:50 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? Message-ID: <006301c0026f$581fd340$3c099a8d@ajp166> From: Daniel T. Burrows >My archive RSX11M+ system currently has 2) 9Gb and 1) 3 Gb drives on it. >Along with the 1GB boot, a CDROM and a ZIP. RZ25's get swapped more often >than the ZIP gets used now however. > >It also has a quad density 9 track, TZ30, and a 4mm for tapes. >The only DEC item in it are grant cards and a DELQA > >Dan Well I happen to have a 11/73 that is all DEC and it has the one think I like and that is I can easily document it fully and duplicate it. If I need SCSI I have a CDM200 I can borrow from the VAX for CDrom use or whatever. I happen to like RT11FB or XM so a rx33 plus three RD52(Quantum D540s) on a RQDX3 is a roomy setup with RL02 and RX02. Come to think of it one of the RD53s boots as RSTS. If there were any PDP-11 config I'd love to do it's a micro Qbus box with say 11/23 IDE and RX23/24 3.5" drives in a PC minitower or smaller format. Envision this (all dual width cards): 11/23 m8186 KDF-11A (11/23 Q22, I have one overclocked). boot M8021 MRV11 (Eprom card with boot) ram M8059(x4) MSV11LK (4x =1mb) serial M8043 DLV11j 4port serial One possible Disk system, all DEC disk M7555 RQDX3 M9058 disk distribution flop TEACFD55GFV RX33 HD RD52 RD52 OR hybrid DEC: CMD200, RZ23, Cdrom all in a H9281-AC(12 dual slots) which has a footprint nearly as large as MINI AT sized card though much thicker. ;-) I also have a few M7142s, VK170 base Vt52 video on a dial card so the system would use a mono CRT and a keyboard like a real PC. I should do it as I have all the bits and it would be fair system perfomance wise. Not bad for 1984-87 technology! Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Aug 9 21:04:43 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: AS/400? Message-ID: <006801c0026f$5cfd3f60$3c099a8d@ajp166> From: Geoff Roberts >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Eric Smith" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 3:31 PM >Subject: Re: AS/400? > >> I believe that to be false. The IBMLink sales information for that >> model says that it runs OS/400 V3R1 or V3R2, which only run on CISC >models. >> RISC models run V3R7 or V4Rx. I though the AS400 is CISC to the max and the RISC solutions were called RS6000. Allison From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Aug 9 21:13:17 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: Monitors that are keepers? In-Reply-To: References: <399077C9.3966.D34BD7A@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000809191317.0097b810@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 16:21 09-08-2000 -0800, you wrote: >Which monitors are the ones to look for and keep? I don't think it's "classic" quite yet, but the Sony OEM monitors that they did for Sun are, in many cases, well worth grabbing if the price is right. This is especially true of any Sun monitor that says it's a '20E20' on the back. Despite the 13W3 connector, it is fully multiscanning. I believe it's equivalent in feature set to the commercial version, the 20SF. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Aug 9 21:18:32 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: AS/400? In-Reply-To: <003601c0026a$4a5be820$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> (geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au) References: <010f01c00104$0b075220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <20000808194834.26884.qmail@brouhaha.com> <004001c001b9$cca4bde0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <20000809060140.2017.qmail@brouhaha.com> <003601c0026a$4a5be820$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <20000810021832.12327.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Geoff Roberts" wrote: > Is there more than one type 9402??? ie one CISC, one RISC? All "Type 9402" means is a "small" AS/400. Versus 9401 (very small), 9404 (midsize), and 9406 (big). The type number must be considered together with the model number, e.g., 9402-200, in order to identify a machine. A 9402-200 is *much* different internally than a 9402-400. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Aug 9 21:21:11 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: AS/400? In-Reply-To: <006801c0026f$5cfd3f60$3c099a8d@ajp166> References: <006801c0026f$5cfd3f60$3c099a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20000810022111.12360.qmail@brouhaha.com> Allison wrote: > I though the AS400 is CISC to the max and the RISC solutions were > called RS6000. Nope. All current AS/400 systems use RISC processors. The "MI" layer, which is the lowest supported "machine code" level of the AS/400 (sort of like P-code or Java bytecodes) is very CISCy, but that's implemented in software on both CISC and RISC AS/400s. It's reported that IBM will be calling future machines "I/500", and they will be capable of running OS/400, AIX, or Linux. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Aug 9 21:23:11 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: AS/400? In-Reply-To: <006801c0026f$5cfd3f60$3c099a8d@ajp166> References: <006801c0026f$5cfd3f60$3c099a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20000810022311.12380.qmail@brouhaha.com> I wrote: > The "MI" layer, which is the lowest supported "machine code" level of > the AS/400 (sort of like P-code or Java bytecodes) is very CISCy, but > that's implemented in software on both CISC and RISC AS/400s. I should probably further add that the MI layer is translated into native code, so there generally isn't a performance penalty for interpretation. The point is, however, that IBM does not support users writing actual machine code on the AS/400 boxes. Also, the MI code is portable across all AS/400 models, while the internal code is not. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Aug 9 21:37:21 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: AS/400? References: <010f01c00104$0b075220$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <20000808194834.26884.qmail@brouhaha.com> <004001c001b9$cca4bde0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> <20000809060140.2017.qmail@brouhaha.com> <003601c0026a$4a5be820$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <007901c00273$e9949fa0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Roberts" To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 10:58 AM Subject: Re: AS/400? > Now I'm really confused...... > > Check out this:- > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=400945276 > My machine looks EXACTLY like this one, except it doesn't have a CDROM. You can disregard this, I now have definitive evidence it's a CISC machine. I just need to confirm whether it's still useable. If it needs a system password I'm going to scrap the sucker. (Just like Mr. IBM wants I guess) Thanks for your help with this.... Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Aug 9 21:45:50 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: More Stuff Message-ID: <020901c00275$195e1800$14711fd1@default> Yesterday found a Heathkit Plotter that uses 3 vacuum tubes and paper roll. The model number on it is EUW-20A, have not tested it yet. Picked up a FLUKE 2969 - 8300A Digital Voltmeter not tested yet; a Video Data Systems T1000 Character generator; and HP 5258A Sensitive Prescaler. There were boxes and boxes of old test equipment at the scrape yard yesterday, too much for me to get it all and most looked to need work done them. John Keys From retro at retrobits.com Wed Aug 9 22:15:59 2000 From: retro at retrobits.com (Earl Evans) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: Web page for ClassicCmp Message-ID: <002601c00279$4e81c640$6401640a@easystreet.com> Hi, What's the official web page for the ClassicCmp mailing list? - Earl From richard at idcomm.com Wed Aug 9 23:04:34 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: Monitors that are keepers? References: <399077C9.3966.D34BD7A@localhost> from "Lawrence Walker" atAug 8, 0 09:12:41 pm Message-ID: <001a01c00280$18771260$0500c0a8@winbook> I don't believe there are any old NEC 20" monitors. There are some relatively old 19" models, but the 20's are, IIRC, all post 1990. They are in all cases WAY better than any that DEC ever used, with the exception of those cases in which they oem'd the SONY GDM 1950. Just as with their rotating memories, DEC tended to use technology that was obsolete because they could get it for cheap. If you want to save space, why would you even look at a big monitor? The 20" Raster Ops is likley a SONY GDM 1950. If you have an application into which that fits, it's probably worth keeping, since it's a top quality monitor. If you're still young enough to read text presented on the almost 14" screen of the SONY 1304, it's probably worth using. If you don't have a use, however, there's no point in keeping any of them. CTX and Optiquest are low-end products, though they may work OK. I'd give some serious thought to dumpstering all the ones you don't know you'll need before it becomes illegal to do that. There are places already charging $$$ to dispose of CRT's PCB's (not the chemicals ... the boards) and stuff like that. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Ford To: Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 6:21 PM Subject: Monitors that are keepers? > Which monitors are the ones to look for and keep? > > Yesterday I was looking at an old 20" NEC Multisync, I think the model was > JC20 something, and I ended up leaving it behind (ran out of time, didn't > know if it was a "good" monitor, or even worked). It "looked" neat, but old. > > Monitors, especially the big ones take up HUGE amounts of storage, don't > stack well, and break easily if dropped. I have less than 20 right now, but > they are still one of the first items I look to when I want some space. > > What are some of the good monitors to keep? (repeating myself I know) > > Right now I have > > (3) 2086A3SG Silicon Graphics monitors > (2) HP 1097C > 1 20" RasterOPs > 1 Viking Moniterm monochrome two page > 1 Sigma Design high res gray scale (lab view I think, 1600x1200). > 1 Radius TPD > (3) Radius Color Pivots > (3) Radius B&W pivots > 1 CTX 1765 color > 1 Optiquest Q73 17" color > (8) Apple 13 RGB high res > half a dozen various small monochrome and NTSC > 1 Sony 1304 > 1 Atari something > > Pretty obviously this is too many, and the list doesn't include all in one > systems or a couple DEC VT420 terminals I just added. Many of them are in > limbo, where I haven't gotten them to work yet, but I "think" they are OK, > which isn't quite good enough to sell them or use them. > > I want to have monitors for everything I have to play with, which includes > an IBM 5150 and a HP 735/50, but have pretty much decided I am NOT going to > start collecting Commodore or Atari (very much, maybe an Amiga and > something like a 1200XL). Suggestions? > > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Aug 9 23:19:15 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? In-Reply-To: <200008100042.RAA10397@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000809161431.00cb14d0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000809211653.00cbd620@208.226.86.10> At 05:42 PM 8/9/00 -0700, Zane wrote: >Is the LPV11 a bi-directional port? If you're trying to talk to a Parellel >port Zip Drive I believe that will require a bi-directional port. Not the old ones, they wrote 8 bits out and did "nybble-i/o" in for non-bidirectional parallel ports. Makes them significantly slower on transfer rate but their still faster than an RX50 :-) --Chuck >Personally for my PDP-11/73 I'm using removable PC SCSI Disk Sleds, this >allows me to use 3.5" SCSI HD's as removable media. I've got two drive bays >in the PDP-11 and another in my Linux box. Plus I've got a bunch of >identical SCSI HD's. The drive bay in my Linux box allows me to make disk >images of the PDP-11's SCSI HD's. Of course this solution requires you to >have a SCSI Adapter for your PDP-11. And the SCSI adapters are hard to find. Seemed like it would be a good hack if I could make old (read tossed out) ZIP drives into a PDP disk peripheral. From richard at idcomm.com Wed Aug 9 23:13:18 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: "Cheap" PAL/GAL programmers... (was: Palasm?) References: <3.0.1.32.20000809171646.02b4d100@mail.30below.com> Message-ID: <002e01c00281$50a80800$0500c0a8@winbook> What I considered a cheapie back in '85 was something at or under $1k. You can get cheaper ones nowadays, but the problem is that, in my case, portability was a requirement, and most of them, though they'll fit in a briefcase, require a wheelbarrow full of adapters to handle a wide variety of parts. The ones I bought were both about the size of a textbook, though thinner, and supported (or claimed to) most of the devices available on the market at the time, with the exception of a few single-chip micros, for which one would probably want to buy or make a special purpose programmer anyway, since that was no more difficult than making/buying the adapter. I don't know what cheapies there are nowadays, but I doubt you can buy any for less than $500. If you get a $500 device, don't forget that the typical adapter, (murphy says you'll need at least three) will cost about $100 or more. The great hope for the future is "In-situ-programming" now touted as the latest and greatest improvement for larger devices. These allow you to solder your device to the board, avoiding the airflow problems presented by sockets, etc, but their pitch is so fine, generally, that you can't clip on a 'scope or logic analyzer, hence have to build in pins that disrupt that nice airflow. If you just want to play with programmable logic, I'd get a couple of wirewrap adapters for PLCC84 packages to whatever your favorite type of wirewrap card might be, and buy a device or two that comes in that package. Be sitting down when you read the price of the adapters, though. It gives new meainig to the term "sticker shock." Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Roger Merchberger To: Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 3:16 PM Subject: "Cheap" PAL/GAL programmers... (was: Palasm?) > Rumor has it that Richard Erlacher may have mentioned these words: > > [snip] > > >The last time I used a model 29 was in '85. They were already pretty old > >back then and wouldn't program the then new Altera parts and Lattice parts I > >was using. That was later fixed, but too late for me. I bought a cheapie > >that still works . . . > > Define "cheapie..." > > This (well, at least for me) is on topic, because I've always wanted to get > into PAL/GAL/Programmable Logic to "play" with to make projects on > upgrading various classic systems that I have... but a few C-notes is too > much for me to dedicate to a "toy" right now. > > Anyone know of a good source for older programmers that would cost in the > $20-50 (USD) range? > > Thanks, > "Merch" > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Aug 9 23:33:50 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? In-Reply-To: <005501c0026b$23de95c0$3c099a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000809212207.00cc0d10@208.226.86.10> At 09:27 PM 8/9/00 -0400, Allison wrote: >Read up on parallel ports for PC first, the M8027 WILL NOT be sufficient. >Most parallel ports ahve enough bidirectional lines and the 8bit data is >bidirectional (only the old XT ports aren't). I have, and they are, _if_ they are CENTRONICs compatible. There are 11 output bits and 6 input bits. When you have such a port on your PC (and even PC/AT and some 386 machines had them) you could use them in "nybble" mode. In this mode four of the 8 data bits are outputs, Busy/SLCT/Paper Out/Fault are inputs, strobe is "write nybble", ACK is "read nybble", and the upper four bits are used to control things like interface direction and turn around. In this way a general 4 bit bi-directional interface is created that can run and 400KBits/sec on some machines! (typically closer to 300Kbits but still) Ports that aren't Centronics compatible _really_ don't always work. However I could also try it with a M7941. --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 9 23:28:29 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000809211653.00cbd620@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Aug 09, 2000 09:19:15 PM Message-ID: <200008100428.VAA31791@shell1.aracnet.com> > And the SCSI adapters are hard to find. Seemed like it would be a good hack > if I could make old (read tossed out) ZIP drives into a PDP disk peripheral. Um, have you heard of the "Click of Death"? After hearing it I will no longer use a Zip Drive. However, I see your point. Zane From ernestls at home.com Thu Aug 10 00:44:17 2000 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: Question for NW Apple II users. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c0028e$0708c240$59a40b18@c721564-a.sttln1.wa.home.com> Having just moved and realizing how much A][ stuff I have that is redundant I'd be interested in such a swap meet. My problem is that it will take a while to unpack and sort things out so while I'm interested in a swap meet it might be next spring before I am ready. George Hello. Let me know when you feel like making some trades. I keep collecting more and more A2 stuff -mostly cards, software, and manuals so I could bring plenty of stuff. Ernest From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Aug 10 02:37:30 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: Monitors that are keepers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000809191317.0097b810@pop.sttl.uswest.net> References: <399077C9.3966.D34BD7A@localhost> Message-ID: > This is especially true of any Sun monitor that says it's a '20E20' on All the late model Sun monitors sell for a fat price locally, around $275 for the 20E20 and related models. I was at a place earlier this week with pallets of Nokia 20" monitors that were pretty tempting, but seriously I "think" most of the people on the list are smart enough to know a late model 20" monitor of ANY kind is worth keeping. From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Aug 10 02:10:03 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:47 2005 Subject: AS400 console cable pinout? Message-ID: <00e501c0029a$01fab2c0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Anyone have a pinout for the "magic cable" listed below. It's the console cable for an IBM AS/400. It's just a DB25M-DB25F, but has some magic wiring to make it work as a console. I have a 3477 Terminal that should suit, and there is a 2612 in the AS. Have a VTxxx if it can speak ascii, but I STILL need the pinout. (I refuse to buy one from IBM on general principles - even assuming it didn't cost 2 arms and 2 legs, I might need a sys pwd and have wasted my time and money, don't mind the time, but the money is another thing entirely.) Have several Twinax terms and cables as well, however the AS doesn't have anything in it that speaks twinax. Part Number 46G0450 or 46G0479 Feature Code 9026 or 9027 I'd really like to get this AS/400 to work, it seems to boot, so I'm assuming it ain't gonna ask for the system password crap. Can't tell until/if I get a console working on it. Can some kind soul (Eric?) talk me through the process? Off list if you prefer..... Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Thu Aug 10 05:34:47 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Palasm? In-Reply-To: <000a01c00232$d1b82320$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:51:23 -0600 Richard Erlacher wrote: > A plug in module for PALASM? What would give you that idea? Well, as I recall, that's what written on the module :-) > I've seen only > one place on a model 29 for anything to plug in, and that's the programming > site. (there are several different ones) That's right, it's a huge plug-in module to go in the programming site socket. It has another plug-in module on top to accept the PALs that are being programmed. > The data was typically fed to the > Model 29 via a serial port, and in JEDEC form. The model 29 translated the > jedec file into whatever signals were needed to program the device. As I have no manual, I can't tell how this thing was supposed to work. > The last time I used a model 29 was in '85. They were already pretty old > back then and wouldn't program the then new Altera parts and Lattice parts I > was using. That was later fixed, but too late for me. I bought a cheapie > that still works . . . I've since acquired a Stag PPZ Universal Programmer. 6809-based machine with built-in CRT. > Is there a feature that plugs in the intelligence to compile Palasm files > into the JEDEC? I'd be VERY surprised to learn that. I'll have to pop up into the loft and fetch this thing down for a closer look (info in this e-mail is from memory). I'll post model numbers, etc, in case anybody can identify the module and tell me I've got it all wrong :-) -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Aug 10 14:30:14 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Monitors that are keepers? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000809191317.0097b810@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: Hello Bruce On 09-Aug-00, you wrote: > At 16:21 09-08-2000 -0800, you wrote: > >> Which monitors are the ones to look for and keep? > > I'm in the market as well for a fully multisync/multiscan monitor, from 15 kHz to SVGA and as far beyond as I can get. I've been looking for Sony, as I can easily get parts and schematics for them. 17 or 19 inch would be preferred, but I'd settle for a 13/15". Any comments or suggestions? Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Aug 10 09:39:57 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? References: <006301c0026f$581fd340$3c099a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3992BEBD.4809FDA3@idirect.com> >ajp166 wrote: > Envision this (all dual width cards): > > 11/23 m8186 KDF-11A (11/23 Q22, I have one overclocked). > boot M8021 MRV11 (Eprom card with boot) > ram M8059(x4) MSV11LK (4x =1mb) > serial M8043 DLV11j 4port serial > > One possible Disk system, all DEC > disk M7555 RQDX3 > M9058 disk distribution > flop TEACFD55GFV RX33 > HD RD52 RD52 > > OR hybrid DEC: > CMD200, RZ23, Cdrom Jerome Fine replies: I have attempted on a number of occasions - all without success - to get a CD on a CMD220/TM host adapter on a PDP-11 system under RT-11. I suspect that I am using the wrong CD drive. Does anyone have any suggestions as to model number that would work? I have asked around and there does not seem to be any DEC CD drives available like the RRD42. By the way, when I put a CD (RT-11 Freeware CD) into my CD IDE drive on the PC and MOUNT the CD under E11, I am unable to read the first 64 blocks. I understand this is a function of W95. If I am able to produce a CD of my own from an old ST11200N drive that I have, will that same limitation apply on a real PDP-11 in that I will not be able to read the first 64 blocks of partition zero on the CD media? In addition, if possible, I would prefer to use a more current model than the RRD42 from DEC which requires the caddy for the CD. Since I am able to use E11 on a PC to read a CD these days, there is also a bit of an emphasis on cost. At this point, I have found that it is just as simple to transfer the files to a magneto optical cartridge and use a Sony S501 on the real PDP-11 and the PC as an interchange media. I would like to acquire some additional magneto optical cartridges as well. Does anyone know where I might be able to find some inexpensive magneto optical cartridges for the S501 drives? These must be the media that are 512 bytes per sector. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jhfine at idirect.com Thu Aug 10 09:40:05 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? References: <005501c0026b$23de95c0$3c099a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <3992BEC5.359707FE@idirect.com> >ajp166 wrote: > Look into a m7941 (DRV11) parallel line unit sa that give you lots of bits for > parallel IO. Another would be the M7950 DRV-11B general purpose DMA > interface (also a parallel IO). The latest one was the DRV-11J (M8049) > and that has enough lines to interface anything (32 in and 32 out). > > The later boards could possibly even be enough to fake the IDE interface > directly. Even an old clunky 120mb WD2120 would seem large! Jerome Fine replies: Any ideas as to how the DRV11-J (M8049) might need to be programmed to interface to an IDE drive? Any could that become a device driver? I have heard that there is a possibility of using an IDE as the disk drive behind a controller that would be able to use the HD(X).SYS device driver that John Wilson makes use of in the E11 emulation software. In addition, it has been suggested that even a SCSI drive might be OK as well. What might be involved in producing such an animal? While HD(X).SYS is far too simple a concept to use in an OS that requires multi-tasking, like RSX, for RT-11 it seems like the perfect solution. Unfortunately, I have so little hardware knowledge that I do not know even what questions should be asked. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From richard at idcomm.com Thu Aug 10 10:11:35 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Palasm? References: Message-ID: <001101c002dd$4704d1a0$0500c0a8@winbook> Please see embedded renarks below. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: John Honniball To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 4:34 AM Subject: Re: Palasm? > > On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:51:23 -0600 Richard Erlacher > wrote: > > A plug in module for PALASM? What would give you that idea? > > Well, as I recall, that's what written on the module :-) > > > I've seen only > > one place on a model 29 for anything to plug in, and that's the programming > > site. (there are several different ones) > > That's right, it's a huge plug-in module to go in the > programming site socket. It has another plug-in module on > top to accept the PALs that are being programmed. > It's been a while but the site does, in some cases have an optional socket adapter for differing packages. Unfortunately this type of adapter was needed in some case while other required an etirely different site to accomodate a given package, i.e. you might need several site/adapter combinations to handle all the different packages in which a given part was available. > > > The data was typically fed to the > > Model 29 via a serial port, and in JEDEC form. The model 29 translated the > > jedec file into whatever signals were needed to program the device. > > As I have no manual, I can't tell how this thing was > supposed to work. > There was software, in my experience, running on a PC, that told the programmer what to do, specifically how to drive the device pins and how to process the JEDEC file. It also sent the JEDEC file once that was set up, but these were separate steps. At the time I seriously began using field-programmable logic devices (once price came down) there were sufficiently inexpensive programmers from second-rank independent vendors that the model 29 was unrealistic for someone not programming in a prduction environment and whose needs involved a wide range of devices. It's not unusual to see these model 29's at distributors' sites. Perhaps one of your local electronic distributors' technicians can help you out. The way to do that is to contact someone you know and tell them what you want is to find whatever documentation there is on the model 29 and examine/copy it. The guy at the will-call counter will probably be more helpful than the phone-sales person. > > The last time I used a model 29 was in '85. They were already pretty old > > back then and wouldn't program the then new Altera parts and Lattice parts I > > was using. That was later fixed, but too late for me. I bought a cheapie > > that still works . . . > > I've since acquired a Stag PPZ Universal Programmer. > 6809-based machine with built-in CRT. > > > Is there a feature that plugs in the intelligence to compile Palasm files > > into the JEDEC? I'd be VERY surprised to learn that. > > I'll have to pop up into the loft and fetch this thing down > for a closer look (info in this e-mail is from memory). > I'll post model numbers, etc, in case anybody can identify > the module and tell me I've got it all wrong :-) > > -- > John Honniball > Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > University of the West of England > > From agraham at ccat.co.uk Thu Aug 10 11:21:31 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 Message-ID: <00Aug10.172132bst.46103@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Mike typed thusly: > There was > also a Apple Color RGB monitor that worked specifically with > the Apple IIgs and I think the IIc/c+. Ta for that - I need to find one of those for the museum then :) It just looks like a Mac monitor in some of the ][GS pix I've seen. cheers a From agraham at ccat.co.uk Thu Aug 10 11:27:11 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Apple II FAQ Message-ID: <00Aug10.172715bst.46103@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Eric wrote: > I think that works. The older Mac 800K external drives, in > the very slim beige case, This is the one I've got....although I've got a fatter one that also came with a Mac Plus that also doesn't have a passthru connector. > in the chain, which means IIRC that you can't combine them > with 5.25-inch > drives, since the 5.25 inch drives must follow any 3.5-inch drives. That's fine for now - I just want to get GS/OS running and all I can create from my Macs are 3.5" floppies anyway. cheers! a From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Aug 10 11:36:22 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Palasm? In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher"'s message of "Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:51:23 -0600" References: <000a01c00232$d1b82320$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <200008101636.JAA80082@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Richard Erlacher" wrote: > A plug in module for PALASM? What would give you that idea? I've seen only > one place on a model 29 for anything to plug in, and that's the programming > site. (there are several different ones) Yes. There's a plug-in adapter called a LogicPak, and that can take a PALASM Design Adapter, an H&L Design Adapter, or one of several programming/test adapters. I've got some of these (PALASM and a couple of p/t adapters) as well as manuals but haven't used them. With the PALASM Design Adapter you can apparently send the programmer your logic equations and have it generate the fuse map and test vectors. Then I guess you plug in one of the p/t adapters to program the actual device because the PALASM Design Adapter doesn't have a socket on top. Like I said, I haven't actually used this, and barely cracked the manuals -- it was gradually tossed by a previous employer and at a price of $0 I figured it would make a useful [[E]P]ROM reader and programmer. Which is sort of what I've been doing with it lately -- writing a Tcl/Expect script to control the 29A w/UniPak 2 and read data from ROMs. It's not what I'd call baked yet (all it does is read a 27512), but I'll post a note when it's a bit more complete. -Frank McConnell From vcf at siconic.com Thu Aug 10 12:08:50 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Vintage Computer Festival 4.0 Update Message-ID: Vintage Computer Festival 4.0 September 30 through October 1, 2000 San Jose Convention Center San Jose, California http://www.vintage.org Mark your calendar! The fourth annual Vintage Computer Festival is scheduled for Saturday, September 30th though Sunday, October 1st at the San Jose Convention Center in San Jose, California. The Vintage Computer Festival is a celebration of computers and their history. The event features speakers, a vintage computer exhibition, a vintage computer marketplace, and contests like The Nerd Trivia Challenge. We showcase all different types of computers for all differents kinds of platforms in all different shapes and sizes. REGISTER EARLY AND SAVE! Register by September 20th and pay only $25 per person! Your registration includes complete event access, including speakers, the exhibition and the marketplace. And just like last year, the first 32 registrants will receive a VCF t-shirt! Act fast to secure your early registration and a free VCF t-shirt. We've made it easier than ever for you register online as we are now accepting credit card payments. Visit the VCF website for complete details! VCF AND CAEX2000 TOGETHER IN ONE VENUE! The VCF is proud to announce it is being held in conjunction with California Extreme 2000, the world's premier classic arcade game extravaganza! Hundreds of classic arcade and pinball games beeping, buzzing and booming. The VCF and CAEX2000 share the same venue, making it easy to attend both events. Even better, admission is reduced for those who do come to both events (details at the door)! For complete details on California Extreme 2000 see: http://www.caextreme.org SPEAKERS AND WORKSHOPS Every year, the VCF assembles an amazing line-up of talks and workshops. This gives attendees an opportunity to interact with the people who laid the foundation for computing today, as well as those who are helping to document and preserve it. Our speaker roster so far includes: Bill Godbout Bill was the King of S-100 for well over a decade, providing kits, boards and complete systems for the hobbyist and businesses worldwide. Godbout and CompuPro products were a basic staple for computer hobbyist's throughout the late-70s and 80s. Jim Warren Jim was responsible for bringing about the West Coast Computer Faire, the seminal computing event of the 70s and 80s. Jim will be waxing poetic about the political activism that transmogrified into the microcomputer revolution of the 70s. Jim will be engaging in a roundtable discussion with fellow revolutionary Larry Tesler. Larry Tesler Larry has left his mark at two of the Silicon Valley's most hallowed institutions: Xerox PARC and Apple. But Larry's vision began well before he went on to help create the foundations of modern day computing. Larry will join Jim Warren in a roundtable discsussion. Paul Freiberger Sixteen years ago, Paul and Mike surveyed the Silicon Mike Swaine Valley and then wrote about it. Their tome, _Fire in the Valley_, has become a legend in its own right. Paul and Mike will be sharing what they learned in writing this biography of the center of the high tech world. Bring your own copy to have it signed! Christine Finn Christine is an archaeologist. So how did her research lead her to vintage computing? Christine is studying the Silicon Valley and the effects it has had in bringing about a global transformation in the way we live. Christine will tell us why it happened in the Santa Clara valley of California. Curt Vendel Curt is the founder of the Atari Historical Society. On his website (http://www.atari-history.com/) he documents the amazing ups and downs of one of computing's most celebrated and innovative companies. Curt will also be bringing along a great interactive Atari exhibit. Jim Willing Jim, our Official VCF Celebrity, is back to wow you with more amazing words of wisdom, incantations of innuendo and sentences of sarcasm. This year in two separate talks he takes on the topics of computer collecting and computer preservation: one is not exclusive of the other! Dwight Elvey Dwight has achieved the ultimate in computer restoration. He acquired a relatively unknown mini- computer from the early 70s, the Nicolet 1080, resurrected it, wrote a cross-compiler for it, and brought it back to life. This talk is perfect for those wishing to take on their own restoration projects but don't know where to start. More speakers to be announced soon! Check the VCF website for the latest updates: http://www.vintage.org/2000/speakers.html EXHIBIT YOUR VINTAGE COMPUTER Vintage Computer Collectors: we want you! Exhibit your favorite computer in the Vintage Computer Exhibition. Prizes will be awarded in 12 different categories, as well as a Best of Show prize which includes $50 cash! For complete details on the VCF Exhibition, visit: http://www.vintage.org/2000/exhibit.html To see the exhibits from VCF 3.0 go to: http://www.vintage.org/exhibit99.html BUY/SELL/TRADE AT THE VINTAGE COMPUTER MARKETPLACE Do you have some vintage computer items you'd like to sell? Whether you rent a booth or sell on consignment, the Vintage Computer Marketplace is the premier venue for selling old computers and related items. If you would like to rent a booth or inquire about consignment rates, please send e-mail to vendor@vintage.org for more information or visit: http://www.vintage.org/2000/vendor.html CHECK OUT THE NEW SITE! If you haven't visited the VCF website in a while, come on over and have a look at the completely new design. You'll find it easier to navigate and easier to find the information you're looking for. We've got plenty of good stuff to read and hundreds of new links to explore vintage computing on the web. We're constantly adding new content. Stop on by for a visit! TELL A FRIEND! TELL A NEIGHBOR! TELL A STRANGER! We really hope to see you at VCF 4.0! And remember, tell everyone you bump into about the Vintage Computer Festival! Vintage Computer Festival 4.0 September 30th through October 1st, 2000 San Jose Convention Center San Jose, California http://www.vintage.org From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Aug 10 20:07:42 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: <00Aug10.172132bst.46103@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: Hello Adrian On 10-Aug-00, you wrote: > Mike typed thusly: > >> There was >> also a Apple Color RGB monitor that worked specifically with >> the Apple IIgs and I think the IIc/c+. > > Ta for that - I need to find one of those for the museum then :) It just > looks like a Mac monitor in some of the ][GS pix I've seen. I got the official apple monitor with my IIc+, and it is composite vidoe only . . . Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 10 13:11:03 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? In-Reply-To: <005501c0026b$23de95c0$3c099a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Aug 9, 0 09:27:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2444 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000810/833017c0/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Aug 10 15:27:49 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: <00Aug10.172132bst.46103@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: >> also a Apple Color RGB monitor that worked specifically with >> the Apple IIgs and I think the IIc/c+. > >Ta for that - I need to find one of those for the museum then :) It just >looks like a Mac monitor in some of the ][GS pix I've seen. Here is an ad with pics and a model number, note there may be more than one model number of IIgs compatible color monitor. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=399648903 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Aug 10 14:47:39 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 In-Reply-To: from Gary Hildebrand at "Aug 10, 0 07:07:42 pm" Message-ID: <200008101947.MAA12200@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I got the official apple monitor with my IIc+, and it is composite vidoe > only . . . Is yours monochrome? Mine is (the Timex Sinclair 1000 was thus a perfect choice for it :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Humor is a drug which it's the fashion to abuse. -- William Gilbert -------- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Aug 10 16:14:08 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Apple II monitors In-Reply-To: <200008101947.MAA12200@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from Gary Hildebrand at "Aug 10, 0 07:07:42 pm" Message-ID: >> I got the official apple monitor with my IIc+, and it is composite vidoe >> only . . . Here is a snip from a good reference page, note the model numbers change when you get to the mac monitors. Its a bare listing, when I would like more details, but it seems fairly complete. http://www.accesscom.com/~gamba/models.txt MONITORS: Apple monochrome.........................A2M2010 Apple 9" green screen....................A2M4090 9" stand.............A2M4021 AppleColor RGB Display (Apple IIGS)......A2M6014 Apple Monochrome.........................A2M6016 Apple Monochrome 2e monitor model........A2M6017 AppleColor Composite Monitor IIe.........A2M6021 Apple Color Monitor IIc..................A2M4043 Apple III Monitor III....................A3M0039 Macintosh 12-in Monochrome Dsply...........M1050 12" Apple High-Resolution Monochrome Monitor...M0440 12" Macintosh 12" RGB Display..................M1296 12" M1299? AppleColor High-Resolution RGB Monitor.....M0401 13"T (rev A) AppleColor High-Resolution RGB Monitor.....M1297 13"T (rev B) (very similar to the M0401, but listed separately on Apple's site) From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Aug 10 17:14:21 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: TI Explorer disks Message-ID: <200008102214.RAA11935@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Can whoever I was supposed to ship the TI Explorer floppy disks to, contact me again and give me your shipping address? -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From owad at applefritter.com Thu Aug 10 18:37:52 2000 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Printer ribbons, anybody? Message-ID: <200008102240.PAA01125@scaup.prod.itd.earthlink.net> I have a box of five "Genuine Centronics Zip-pack Cartridge Ribbons" and one ribbon that's something else. If anybody wants them they're $5 shipped. Tom From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Aug 10 18:06:13 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? Message-ID: <002701c00320$19d266f0$85109a8d@ajp166> From: Chuck McManis >At 09:27 PM 8/9/00 -0400, Allison wrote: >>Read up on parallel ports for PC first, the M8027 WILL NOT be sufficient. >>Most parallel ports ahve enough bidirectional lines and the 8bit data is >>bidirectional (only the old XT ports aren't). > >I have, and they are, _if_ they are CENTRONICs compatible. There are 11 >output bits and 6 input bits. When you have such a port on your PC (and >even PC/AT and some 386 machines had them) you could use them in "nybble" >mode. In this mode four of the 8 data bits are outputs, Busy/SLCT/Paper Stiill it's of no help to you as the DEC cards (LAV and LPV-11s) are useable for centronics but, are data products interface as such you have only one programable ouput bit (D8) and three input lines (busy, online, error). The done bit reflects the status of the transfer (ack recieved in response to strobe). The M7941s are general ports with 16 out and 16 plus strobe and req lines. You have to deal with the fact that the lines are seperate and not inheirently bidirectional. The DRV11J with 64lines may be more resonable to work with. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Aug 10 17:56:54 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? Message-ID: <002601c00320$18d7da50$85109a8d@ajp166> From: Chuck McManis >At 05:42 PM 8/9/00 -0700, Zane wrote: >>Is the LPV11 a bi-directional port? If you're trying to talk to a Parellel >>port Zip Drive I believe that will require a bi-directional port. > >Not the old ones, they wrote 8 bits out and did "nybble-i/o" in for >non-bidirectional parallel ports. Makes them significantly slower on >transfer rate but their still faster than an RX50 :-) > >--Chuck Still, the LPV11 does not have a lines the average PC port has with respect to bidirectionality and that includes some of the control lines. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Aug 10 18:08:08 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? Message-ID: <002801c00320$1aa85490$85109a8d@ajp166> >Jerome Fine replies: > >I have attempted on a number of occasions - all without success - to >get a CD on a CMD220/TM host adapter on a PDP-11 system >under RT-11. I suspect that I am using the wrong CD drive. Does >anyone have any suggestions as to model number that would work? >I have asked around and there does not seem to be any DEC CD >drives available like the RRD42. You need a CDrom that can do the different block size that DEC systems (software) require. Many of the older Toshibas seem to. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Aug 10 18:13:41 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? Message-ID: <004301c00320$f14aecb0$85109a8d@ajp166> From: Jerome Fine >> The later boards could possibly even be enough to fake the IDE interface >> directly. Even an old clunky 120mb WD2120 would seem large! > >Jerome Fine replies: > >Any ideas as to how the DRV11-J (M8049) might need to be programmed >to interface to an IDE drive? Any could that become a device driver? Some but it's too involved to talk about without drawing pictures. Suffice to say IDE is not a protocal like SCSI it is a DEVICE interface and is somewhat uncooked at that. It happens the devices on the other side are fairly intelligent and thats an aid to the driver. First off the driver would have to be written. >I have heard that there is a possibility of using an IDE as the disk drive >behind a controller that would be able to use the HD(X).SYS device >driver that John Wilson makes use of in the E11 emulation software. ??? I dont work with emulators so none of that is of any meaning to me. >In addition, it has been suggested that even a SCSI drive might be OK >as well. What might be involved in producing such an animal? While SCSI is non trivial to do and also the driver can be a pain. >HD(X).SYS is far too simple a concept to use in an OS that requires >multi-tasking, like RSX, for RT-11 it seems like the perfect solution. >Unfortunately, I have so little hardware knowledge that I do not know >even what questions should be asked. Actually a simple driver can work if it's reentrant. However, while RT-11 is fairly simple to write drivers for the other OSs it definately more work as the driver has error recovery and other diagnostice code burried in it. Unix hwoever is a different case as a driver for something like RL02 might be easily bent to work with IDE. Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Aug 10 22:05:27 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Palasm? In-Reply-To: <001101c002dd$4704d1a0$0500c0a8@winbook> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000810220527.45ffaec6@mailhost.intellistar.net> I've missed part of this thread so I may make some wrong assumptions here but I'll throw in what I know about this stuff. DataI/O has both a software PALASM and a hardware PALASM. I have both of them and the docs for them. They appear to do the same thing and I don't what the differences are but there probable are some. I just got this stuff recently and I haven't had time to learn all the details about it. The software versions are called Abel and the was available in PCDOS, UNIX and VAX VMS versions. I have the Abel PC DOS version ($895!) The hardware PALASM is called a PALASM Design Adapter and is PN 303-100 ($395). It's a unit that plugs into a DataI/O model 29 programmer and the unit with the socket for the PAL plugs into it. There are a number is different PAL socket units. Some of them only work with a few PALs but the one that I have is a DataI/O model 303A-011 and it seems to work with most PALs. I also have the manuals for it and the model 29 programmer. I also have a DataI/O UniPak EPROM socket adapter and LogicPak adapter and I THINK I have the manuals for them. I also have the manual for the 303A-002 P/T adapter (one of the PAL sockets) but not the hardware. You MUST have the manuals to use the DataI/O stuff since the manuals contain the codes that you have to enter into the programmer in order to tell it what kind of device you're using. I can make copies of what I have for the cost of copying and postage if anyone needs them. Joe At 09:11 AM 8/10/00 -0600, Dick wrote: >Please see embedded renarks below. > >Dick >----- Original Message ----- >From: John Honniball >To: >Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 4:34 AM >Subject: Re: Palasm? > > >> >> On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:51:23 -0600 Richard Erlacher >> wrote: >> > A plug in module for PALASM? What would give you that idea? >> >> Well, as I recall, that's what written on the module :-) >> >> > I've seen only >> > one place on a model 29 for anything to plug in, and that's the >programming >> > site. (there are several different ones) >> >> That's right, it's a huge plug-in module to go in the >> programming site socket. It has another plug-in module on >> top to accept the PALs that are being programmed. >> >It's been a while but the site does, in some cases have an optional socket >adapter for differing packages. Unfortunately this type of adapter was >needed in some case while other required an etirely different site to >accomodate a given package, i.e. you might need several site/adapter >combinations to handle all the different packages in which a given part was >available. >> >> > The data was typically fed to the >> > Model 29 via a serial port, and in JEDEC form. The model 29 translated >the >> > jedec file into whatever signals were needed to program the device. >> >> As I have no manual, I can't tell how this thing was >> supposed to work. >> >There was software, in my experience, running on a PC, that told the >programmer what to do, specifically how to drive the device pins and how to >process the JEDEC file. It also sent the JEDEC file once that was set up, >but these were separate steps. At the time I seriously began using >field-programmable logic devices (once price came down) there were >sufficiently inexpensive programmers from second-rank independent vendors >that the model 29 was unrealistic for someone not programming in a prduction >environment and whose needs involved a wide range of devices. > >It's not unusual to see these model 29's at distributors' sites. Perhaps >one of your local electronic distributors' technicians can help you out. >The way to do that is to contact someone you know and tell them what you >want is to find whatever documentation there is on the model 29 and >examine/copy it. The guy at the will-call counter will probably be more >helpful than the phone-sales person. > >> > The last time I used a model 29 was in '85. They were already pretty >old >> > back then and wouldn't program the then new Altera parts and Lattice >parts I >> > was using. That was later fixed, but too late for me. I bought a >cheapie >> > that still works . . . >> >> I've since acquired a Stag PPZ Universal Programmer. >> 6809-based machine with built-in CRT. >> >> > Is there a feature that plugs in the intelligence to compile Palasm >files >> > into the JEDEC? I'd be VERY surprised to learn that. >> >> I'll have to pop up into the loft and fetch this thing down >> for a closer look (info in this e-mail is from memory). >> I'll post model numbers, etc, in case anybody can identify >> the module and tell me I've got it all wrong :-) >> >> -- >> John Honniball >> Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk >> University of the West of England >> >> > > From dburrows at netpath.net Thu Aug 10 21:26:29 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? Message-ID: <015601c0033e$292c2af0$a652e780@L166> > >The DRV11J with 64lines may be more resonable to work with. > >Allison If you can find them. Current commercial value is $450+ for M8049's. I can move them with 1 call typically and get calls for them all the time. Dan From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Aug 10 22:33:58 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Why I love my IBM 3090 ... (fwd) Message-ID: <200008110333.UAA15210@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Okay, is this all true? I've never had the joy of VM. -- forwarded message -- Newsgroups: rec.humor.funny.reruns From: 22414843@wsuvm1.bitnet (Chet) Subject: More IBM 3090/VM Humor, smirk Why I like the IBM 3090: First, there's the wonderful operating system, VM/SP which has SO many advantages! Here are some of my favorites! 1. All of your files are in the same directory, you don't have to worry about subdirectories and other nonsense, 2. For file names, not only do you get a file name, but you also get a file type AND a file mode, with the name and type each being an astounding 8 characters, plus a 2 character file mode, way more than I ever had on my Apple II, 3. If you create a small file, it automatically makes sure it takes up one 4K block on your disk, so you can add up to 4K of data to the same file and not take any more disk space!!! WOW!!!!! 4. When you get an account you get an ENTIRE cylinder to yourself, an amazing 465K, which is more than my 5 1/4 inch, single sided, low density PC disk, 5. If a FORTRAN file is too long (250 lines) to compile on your disk because the temp files fill up your cylinder, all you have to do is unlink your A disk, create a big temporary disk, attach that as your A disk, attach your old A disk as another disk, copy the source file to the new A disk, then compile it, 6. You never have to worry about background processes, redirection, or piping because the 3090 doesn't have any! Or command histories! 7. Or here (WSU) we are privileged to have RESLIM, which makes sure that you don't use any more CPU time than you want to or have to, 8. We also have system administrators who also make sure we don't use more CPU than we have to, not to mention they tell us what we can and can not do, and what they think they legally can and can not do, such as maintenance on our accounts to make sure there is nothing wrong with any of our personal files, 9. If any files have sat in your reader/mailbox too long, they will automatically be discarded for you, 10. And finally, all of the USEFUL on-line help! All you have to know is the name of the command and whether it is in CP or CMS or SOFTWARE or one of the other help menus, and you can get a GREAT description of that command AND some examples how to use it like you would want to every day! Not only is the operating system fantastic, they have an AWESOME full screen editor, XEDIT. Boy, it's quite a step up from EDLIN on my PC! Just look how powerful it is: 1. If you want to move your cursor to the middle of the screen, all you do is hold down the arrow keys until you get there. 2. If you wanna delete a whole bunch of characters in the middle of the line all you have to do is hold down the DELETE key until they all magically disappear. 3. If you wanna insert something, all you do is hit the INSERT key and type in what you want, unless it's too long for that line, then all you gotta do is split the line where you want by using the PF11 key, which if you are on a VT100 is just an ESC minus sign. 4. After you do any commands in that neat prefix area, your cursor almost always goes back to the command line at the bottom of the screen. 5. You never have to worry about anything nasty like tab keys, there are no tab stops by default (unless you wanna set them). 6. And, unless you tell it otherwise, XEDIT always creates fixed length lines of 80 characters, so if you ever want to put more stuff on the same line sometime later, there is room for it!! Add to all of this such things as COBOL, disk linking, EBCDIC character set (I mean who says J should follow I?), and even some AWESOME graphics capabilities, and you'll have to agree that the IBM 3090 is the system for me!!!! (Thanx to those people who sent me some of the ideas used herein) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- FORTUNE: Today is an excellent day to have a totally rotten day. ----------- From ernestls at home.com Thu Aug 10 22:40:51 2000 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Morrow MD2 FS at Seattle store In-Reply-To: <000501bfe7be$fd419780$59a40b18@C721564-A.sttln1.wa.home.com> Message-ID: <000401c00345$f2d75940$59a40b18@c721564-a.sttln1.wa.home.com> FYI There's a very nice Morrow MD2 available at REPC in Seattle if anyone is interested. It has a Qume terminal, full set of system disk masters, full set of user manuals for each program, the "correct" printer and terminal cables... I fired it up and it seems to work OK but some of the keys seem to be a little sticky. He didn't have price on it yet since they just got it. I guess that someone just dropped it off for scrap. If you're interested, go check it out and make them an offer. Oh, it also has the cool Shugart floppy drives, instead of those crappy half height types. It also doesn't have that ugly yellow color like my MD3. It's still original creamy white. Ernest From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Aug 10 22:54:10 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? In-Reply-To: <015601c0033e$292c2af0$a652e780@L166> from "Daniel T. Burrows" at "Aug 10, 2000 10:26:29 pm" Message-ID: <200008110354.WAA12333@caesar.cs.umn.edu> [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > > >The DRV11J with 64lines may be more resonable to work with. > > > >Allison > > > If you can find them. Current commercial value is $450+ for M8049's. I can > move them with 1 call typically and get calls for them all the time. > > Dan > Ouch, you're kidding. I dont suppose DATEL D/A converter boards are extremely valuable too ... -Lawrence LeMay From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 10 21:56:57 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Why I love my IBM 3090 ... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200008110333.UAA15210@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Okay, is this all true? I've never had the joy of VM. I can't tell if this guy is being facetious or genuine. At any rate, even if I did use a 3090, this doesn't seem like it would even be clever. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From richard at idcomm.com Thu Aug 10 23:20:27 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Palasm? References: <3.0.1.16.20000810220527.45ffaec6@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <000a01c0034b$7afb6460$0500c0a8@winbook> It might be worth noting that ABEL and Palasm, though functionally similar, are different languages. Palasm was the most popular and widely used, but that was because it was free from MMI and AMD (after they acquired MMI) The FPGA division of MMI was spun off to produce a new company called XILINX but they took MMI's FPGA software (XACT) with them. ABEL and PALASM are like 'C' and PASCAL, they're different enough, but are still basically programming languages. ABEL and PALASM are both hardware specification languages used for specifying the configuration of field programmable devices. As with all seeming small programmers of the early '80's, the Model 29 had lots of options and accessories that were really difficult to get by without if you had a significant repertoire of programmable devices that you had become accustomed to using. These were very capable devices, but the software maintenance cost and the occasional firmware upgrade would cost on the average about $500 per year. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe To: Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Palasm? > I've missed part of this thread so I may make some wrong assumptions here > but I'll throw in what I know about this stuff. > > DataI/O has both a software PALASM and a hardware PALASM. I have both > of them and the docs for them. They appear to do the same thing and I don't > what the differences are but there probable are some. I just got this stuff > recently and I haven't had time to learn all the details about it. The > software versions are called Abel and the was available in PCDOS, UNIX and > VAX VMS versions. I have the Abel PC DOS version ($895!) The hardware > PALASM is called a PALASM Design Adapter and is PN 303-100 ($395). It's a > unit that plugs into a DataI/O model 29 programmer and the unit with the > socket for the PAL plugs into it. There are a number is different PAL > socket units. Some of them only work with a few PALs but the one that I > have is a DataI/O model 303A-011 and it seems to work with most PALs. I > also have the manuals for it and the model 29 programmer. I also have a > DataI/O UniPak EPROM socket adapter and LogicPak adapter and I THINK I have > the manuals for them. I also have the manual for the 303A-002 P/T adapter > (one of the PAL sockets) but not the hardware. You MUST have the manuals to > use the DataI/O stuff since the manuals contain the codes that you have to > enter into the programmer in order to tell it what kind of device you're > using. I can make copies of what I have for the cost of copying and postage > if anyone needs them. > > Joe > > > At 09:11 AM 8/10/00 -0600, Dick wrote: > >Please see embedded renarks below. > > > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: John Honniball > >To: > >Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 4:34 AM > >Subject: Re: Palasm? > > > > > >> > >> On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:51:23 -0600 Richard Erlacher > >> wrote: > >> > A plug in module for PALASM? What would give you that idea? > >> > >> Well, as I recall, that's what written on the module :-) > >> > >> > I've seen only > >> > one place on a model 29 for anything to plug in, and that's the > >programming > >> > site. (there are several different ones) > >> > >> That's right, it's a huge plug-in module to go in the > >> programming site socket. It has another plug-in module on > >> top to accept the PALs that are being programmed. > >> > >It's been a while but the site does, in some cases have an optional socket > >adapter for differing packages. Unfortunately this type of adapter was > >needed in some case while other required an etirely different site to > >accomodate a given package, i.e. you might need several site/adapter > >combinations to handle all the different packages in which a given part was > >available. > >> > >> > The data was typically fed to the > >> > Model 29 via a serial port, and in JEDEC form. The model 29 translated > >the > >> > jedec file into whatever signals were needed to program the device. > >> > >> As I have no manual, I can't tell how this thing was > >> supposed to work. > >> > >There was software, in my experience, running on a PC, that told the > >programmer what to do, specifically how to drive the device pins and how to > >process the JEDEC file. It also sent the JEDEC file once that was set up, > >but these were separate steps. At the time I seriously began using > >field-programmable logic devices (once price came down) there were > >sufficiently inexpensive programmers from second-rank independent vendors > >that the model 29 was unrealistic for someone not programming in a prduction > >environment and whose needs involved a wide range of devices. > > > >It's not unusual to see these model 29's at distributors' sites. Perhaps > >one of your local electronic distributors' technicians can help you out. > >The way to do that is to contact someone you know and tell them what you > >want is to find whatever documentation there is on the model 29 and > >examine/copy it. The guy at the will-call counter will probably be more > >helpful than the phone-sales person. > > > >> > The last time I used a model 29 was in '85. They were already pretty > >old > >> > back then and wouldn't program the then new Altera parts and Lattice > >parts I > >> > was using. That was later fixed, but too late for me. I bought a > >cheapie > >> > that still works . . . > >> > >> I've since acquired a Stag PPZ Universal Programmer. > >> 6809-based machine with built-in CRT. > >> > >> > Is there a feature that plugs in the intelligence to compile Palasm > >files > >> > into the JEDEC? I'd be VERY surprised to learn that. > >> > >> I'll have to pop up into the loft and fetch this thing down > >> for a closer look (info in this e-mail is from memory). > >> I'll post model numbers, etc, in case anybody can identify > >> the module and tell me I've got it all wrong :-) > >> > >> -- > >> John Honniball > >> Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > >> University of the West of England > >> > >> > > > > > > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Aug 10 23:58:35 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Omnibus boards Message-ID: <200008110458.XAA12535@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Well, now that my PDP-8/E is apparently working, but has no peripherals installed yet, my curiousity over what these 'mystery omnibus boards' do is increasing. If anyone can shed some light, i'm all ears: ---- Computer Operations Inc, C-10450-01. This board intrigues me the most, as someone has written this on the board with a marker: [LINK DEC TAPE 2] It has connectors for 3 ribbon cables to attach, 26 wires per cable. Connectors are labeled: CDJ2, CCJ1, CDJ1. ---- The remaining boards are from VG Data Systems. Someone here once mentioned they had information about some of these boards, and i'd like to know if any of these boards might be useful, or easily modified to be useful: PB-8E-101 PB-8E-102 PB-8E-202 on a standard DEC wirewrap board, should be able to make something out of it. PB-8E-504 2 of this board PB-8E-505 PB-8A-603 PB-8E-644 input connector has written: works as MS30, PDP8 [C:] -Lawrence LeMay From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 11 08:53:19 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Palasm? Oops! Correction. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000810220527.45ffaec6@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <001101c002dd$4704d1a0$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000811085319.3b178bea@mailhost.intellistar.net> I was tired when I wrote the information below and I made a serious goof. The part that plugs into the model 29 programmer and that the PAL socket adapter plugs into is the LogicPac and not the Design Adapter. The DA (Design Adapter) plugs into the LogicPac in place of the PAL socket adapter. After you use the DA to convert your logic equations to the JEDEC fuse mappings, you remove the DA and replace it with the correct socket adapter for your type of PAL and then command the programmer to burn the fuse pattern. I don't think the DA is absolutely reguired, I think the ABEL software will also compile the logic equations into a fuse mapping. However the DA will do tests on the PALs that the software alone can't do. FWIW the LogicPak works with the model 29A, 29B, 19 and 100A programmers and orginally cost $1795. The LogicPak is REQUIRED in order to read/program any PALs. Joe At 10:05 PM 8/10/00 -0500, you wrote: >I've missed part of this thread so I may make some wrong assumptions here >but I'll throw in what I know about this stuff. > > DataI/O has both a software PALASM and a hardware PALASM. I have both >of them and the docs for them. They appear to do the same thing and I don't >what the differences are but there probable are some. I just got this stuff >recently and I haven't had time to learn all the details about it. The >software versions are called Abel and the was available in PCDOS, UNIX and >VAX VMS versions. I have the Abel PC DOS version ($895!) The hardware >PALASM is called a PALASM Design Adapter and is PN 303-100 ($395). It's a >unit that plugs into a DataI/O model 29 programmer and the unit with the >socket for the PAL plugs into it. There are a number is different PAL >socket units. Some of them only work with a few PALs but the one that I >have is a DataI/O model 303A-011 and it seems to work with most PALs. I >also have the manuals for it and the model 29 programmer. I also have a >DataI/O UniPak EPROM socket adapter and LogicPak adapter and I THINK I have >the manuals for them. I also have the manual for the 303A-002 P/T adapter >(one of the PAL sockets) but not the hardware. You MUST have the manuals to >use the DataI/O stuff since the manuals contain the codes that you have to >enter into the programmer in order to tell it what kind of device you're >using. I can make copies of what I have for the cost of copying and postage >if anyone needs them. > > Joe > > >At 09:11 AM 8/10/00 -0600, Dick wrote: >>Please see embedded renarks below. >> >>Dick >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: John Honniball >>To: >>Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 4:34 AM >>Subject: Re: Palasm? >> >> >>> >>> On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:51:23 -0600 Richard Erlacher >>> wrote: >>> > A plug in module for PALASM? What would give you that idea? >>> >>> Well, as I recall, that's what written on the module :-) >>> >>> > I've seen only >>> > one place on a model 29 for anything to plug in, and that's the >>programming >>> > site. (there are several different ones) >>> >>> That's right, it's a huge plug-in module to go in the >>> programming site socket. It has another plug-in module on >>> top to accept the PALs that are being programmed. >>> >>It's been a while but the site does, in some cases have an optional socket >>adapter for differing packages. Unfortunately this type of adapter was >>needed in some case while other required an etirely different site to >>accomodate a given package, i.e. you might need several site/adapter >>combinations to handle all the different packages in which a given part was >>available. >>> >>> > The data was typically fed to the >>> > Model 29 via a serial port, and in JEDEC form. The model 29 translated >>the >>> > jedec file into whatever signals were needed to program the device. >>> >>> As I have no manual, I can't tell how this thing was >>> supposed to work. >>> >>There was software, in my experience, running on a PC, that told the >>programmer what to do, specifically how to drive the device pins and how to >>process the JEDEC file. It also sent the JEDEC file once that was set up, >>but these were separate steps. At the time I seriously began using >>field-programmable logic devices (once price came down) there were >>sufficiently inexpensive programmers from second-rank independent vendors >>that the model 29 was unrealistic for someone not programming in a prduction >>environment and whose needs involved a wide range of devices. >> >>It's not unusual to see these model 29's at distributors' sites. Perhaps >>one of your local electronic distributors' technicians can help you out. >>The way to do that is to contact someone you know and tell them what you >>want is to find whatever documentation there is on the model 29 and >>examine/copy it. The guy at the will-call counter will probably be more >>helpful than the phone-sales person. >> >>> > The last time I used a model 29 was in '85. They were already pretty >>old >>> > back then and wouldn't program the then new Altera parts and Lattice >>parts I >>> > was using. That was later fixed, but too late for me. I bought a >>cheapie >>> > that still works . . . >>> >>> I've since acquired a Stag PPZ Universal Programmer. >>> 6809-based machine with built-in CRT. >>> >>> > Is there a feature that plugs in the intelligence to compile Palasm >>files >>> > into the JEDEC? I'd be VERY surprised to learn that. >>> >>> I'll have to pop up into the loft and fetch this thing down >>> for a closer look (info in this e-mail is from memory). >>> I'll post model numbers, etc, in case anybody can identify >>> the module and tell me I've got it all wrong :-) >>> >>> -- >>> John Honniball >>> Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk >>> University of the West of England >>> >>> >> >> > > From ernestls at home.com Fri Aug 11 08:24:27 2000 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: 3b2\600 OS needed. In-Reply-To: <000001c0028e$0708c240$59a40b18@c721564-a.sttln1.wa.home.com> Message-ID: <000501c00397$79f7c580$59a40b18@c721564-a.sttln1.wa.home.com> I'm looking for the setup\OS disks and tape for a 3b2\600. Will buy or trade for it. Ernest. From lionelp at worldonline.co.za Fri Aug 11 08:45:58 2000 From: lionelp at worldonline.co.za (Lionel Pinkhard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: CGA graphics Message-ID: Hi, Does somebody here know the formulas for calculating the offsets and bits in the CGA memory? Or maybe a quick routine for plotting a pixel? The BIOS routine sure seems SLOW to me. I'm experimenting with these older machines, so I'm working a little with these cool graphics cards! (The CGA is great! Well, I LOVE IT! :-) ) Ciao, Lionel From richard at idcomm.com Fri Aug 11 11:17:12 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Palasm? Oops! Correction. References: <001101c002dd$4704d1a0$0500c0a8@winbook> <3.0.1.16.20000811085319.3b178bea@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <001801c003af$b3eeb6a0$0500c0a8@winbook> PALASM allows the user to generate his own test vectors for testing purposes. I was not aware that the model 29 has a module that generates these automatically. I'd be surprised if it really does it automatically. I'd believe, however, that it compiles test vectors as part of the user's design file. The output from the DOS-based PALASM is a JEDEC file which is a standardized format for fuse maps for various programmable devices. The fact that these devices were so costly is what makes them worth so much less than nothing today. They required several updates per year back when they were in supported service and, now that they're not, it's virtually impossible to get software for them. If you're fortunate enough to have the combination of device, adapter, internal firmware, and externally based software to make them work they work about as well as anything, but because of the divergence in the programmable device market since the model 29 was brought out, it's too difficult to do what they (Data I/O) did because of the way they did it. Their "next" step was to integrate the functions of the model 29 and all its various accessories into a single unit produced the "UniSite" which I only saw once in the hands of a major client and never with a lesser one. The base unit for the Unisite cost $11k and, of course, the name, UNISITE, was a misnomer, since it had a wide range of "sites" that were ultimately needed if you had to support a wide range of devices of types used after 1990. That, of course, serves to show how difficult it is to have a single piece of equipment support all the devices on the market. In the late 1980's there were numerous ECL devices, including some that included TTL<=>ECL device, TTL devices, CMOS devices, all in DIP's LCC's, PGA's. etc. It's a nightmare keeping up with packaging alone, let alone pin-driver requirements for different technologies as well. That's why I favored the lower-cost much more portable devices. I never learned to like the style of adapters people made for the various packages, though, since they were always too fragile to haul around in the briefcase along with the programmer. I built my own, in some cases, and they were even more fragile. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe To: Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 7:53 AM Subject: Re: Palasm? Oops! Correction. > I was tired when I wrote the information below and I made a serious goof. > The part that plugs into the model 29 programmer and that the PAL socket > adapter plugs into is the LogicPac and not the Design Adapter. The DA > (Design Adapter) plugs into the LogicPac in place of the PAL socket > adapter. After you use the DA to convert your logic equations to the JEDEC > fuse mappings, you remove the DA and replace it with the correct socket > adapter for your type of PAL and then command the programmer to burn the > fuse pattern. I don't think the DA is absolutely reguired, I think the ABEL > software will also compile the logic equations into a fuse mapping. However > the DA will do tests on the PALs that the software alone can't do. > > FWIW the LogicPak works with the model 29A, 29B, 19 and 100A programmers > and orginally cost $1795. The LogicPak is REQUIRED in order to read/program > any PALs. > > Joe > > At 10:05 PM 8/10/00 -0500, you wrote: > >I've missed part of this thread so I may make some wrong assumptions here > >but I'll throw in what I know about this stuff. > > > > DataI/O has both a software PALASM and a hardware PALASM. I have both > >of them and the docs for them. They appear to do the same thing and I don't > >what the differences are but there probable are some. I just got this stuff > >recently and I haven't had time to learn all the details about it. The > >software versions are called Abel and the was available in PCDOS, UNIX and > >VAX VMS versions. I have the Abel PC DOS version ($895!) The hardware > >PALASM is called a PALASM Design Adapter and is PN 303-100 ($395). It's a > >unit that plugs into a DataI/O model 29 programmer and the unit with the > >socket for the PAL plugs into it. There are a number is different PAL > >socket units. Some of them only work with a few PALs but the one that I > >have is a DataI/O model 303A-011 and it seems to work with most PALs. I > >also have the manuals for it and the model 29 programmer. I also have a > >DataI/O UniPak EPROM socket adapter and LogicPak adapter and I THINK I have > >the manuals for them. I also have the manual for the 303A-002 P/T adapter > >(one of the PAL sockets) but not the hardware. You MUST have the manuals to > >use the DataI/O stuff since the manuals contain the codes that you have to > >enter into the programmer in order to tell it what kind of device you're > >using. I can make copies of what I have for the cost of copying and postage > >if anyone needs them. > > > > Joe > > > > > >At 09:11 AM 8/10/00 -0600, Dick wrote: > >>Please see embedded renarks below. > >> > >>Dick > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: John Honniball > >>To: > >>Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2000 4:34 AM > >>Subject: Re: Palasm? > >> > >> > >>> > >>> On Wed, 9 Aug 2000 12:51:23 -0600 Richard Erlacher > >>> wrote: > >>> > A plug in module for PALASM? What would give you that idea? > >>> > >>> Well, as I recall, that's what written on the module :-) > >>> > >>> > I've seen only > >>> > one place on a model 29 for anything to plug in, and that's the > >>programming > >>> > site. (there are several different ones) > >>> > >>> That's right, it's a huge plug-in module to go in the > >>> programming site socket. It has another plug-in module on > >>> top to accept the PALs that are being programmed. > >>> > >>It's been a while but the site does, in some cases have an optional socket > >>adapter for differing packages. Unfortunately this type of adapter was > >>needed in some case while other required an etirely different site to > >>accomodate a given package, i.e. you might need several site/adapter > >>combinations to handle all the different packages in which a given part was > >>available. > >>> > >>> > The data was typically fed to the > >>> > Model 29 via a serial port, and in JEDEC form. The model 29 translated > >>the > >>> > jedec file into whatever signals were needed to program the device. > >>> > >>> As I have no manual, I can't tell how this thing was > >>> supposed to work. > >>> > >>There was software, in my experience, running on a PC, that told the > >>programmer what to do, specifically how to drive the device pins and how to > >>process the JEDEC file. It also sent the JEDEC file once that was set up, > >>but these were separate steps. At the time I seriously began using > >>field-programmable logic devices (once price came down) there were > >>sufficiently inexpensive programmers from second-rank independent vendors > >>that the model 29 was unrealistic for someone not programming in a prduction > >>environment and whose needs involved a wide range of devices. > >> > >>It's not unusual to see these model 29's at distributors' sites. Perhaps > >>one of your local electronic distributors' technicians can help you out. > >>The way to do that is to contact someone you know and tell them what you > >>want is to find whatever documentation there is on the model 29 and > >>examine/copy it. The guy at the will-call counter will probably be more > >>helpful than the phone-sales person. > >> > >>> > The last time I used a model 29 was in '85. They were already pretty > >>old > >>> > back then and wouldn't program the then new Altera parts and Lattice > >>parts I > >>> > was using. That was later fixed, but too late for me. I bought a > >>cheapie > >>> > that still works . . . > >>> > >>> I've since acquired a Stag PPZ Universal Programmer. > >>> 6809-based machine with built-in CRT. > >>> > >>> > Is there a feature that plugs in the intelligence to compile Palasm > >>files > >>> > into the JEDEC? I'd be VERY surprised to learn that. > >>> > >>> I'll have to pop up into the loft and fetch this thing down > >>> for a closer look (info in this e-mail is from memory). > >>> I'll post model numbers, etc, in case anybody can identify > >>> the module and tell me I've got it all wrong :-) > >>> > >>> -- > >>> John Honniball > >>> Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > >>> University of the West of England > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > From ncherry at home.net Fri Aug 11 11:51:09 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: 3b2\600 OS needed. References: <000501c00397$79f7c580$59a40b18@c721564-a.sttln1.wa.home.com> Message-ID: <39942EFD.476DBFD0@home.net> Ernest wrote: > > I'm looking for the setup\OS disks and tape for a 3b2\600. Will buy or trade > for it. > > Ernest. You wouldn't happen to have a spare nic? I'll check around here I think have to OS etal. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Aug 11 11:47:48 2000 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Alphastation help Message-ID: <80256938.005C0182.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> Not strictly on topic, since these are fairly new - but they were old enough to be thrown out at work, and I got them for L10 each. Both machines say Alphastation 200 4/100 on the front, and I think Model PB40H-CA on the back. One of them boots openVMS, for which I have no passwords (same old story...). This machine claims her name is Tracey. The other gets to the console prompt (>>>), and I haven't tried booting further. (This machine is in a graphics mode my monitor doesn't like. Time to get a better monitor...) Anyway, if I press ctrl-C when booting Tracey, I can get to the console prompt. SHOW CONFIG then tells me a bit about what's installed in her: SRM Console X3.9-1387 ARC Console 4.1-22 PALcode VMS X5.48-87 OSF X1.35-57 Serial ROM V4.6 Diag ROM V1.6 CPU DECchip 21064-2 at 100MHz pka0.7.0.6.0 SCSI 7 dka0.0.0.6.0 RZ26L (this is whence it boots, BTW) dka100.1.0.6.0 RZ28 mka400.4.0.6.0 TLZ07 (This is a tape drive on the SCSI bus. Presumably at address 4 - forgot to look when I had it in bits) With some random flag adjustments to the BOOT command, I got it into SYSBOOT, which has another load of useless things to SHOW and SET. This seems to be part of VMS, though. Can anyone tell me, off list if necessary: How do I break into OpenVMS from here? If I put in the floppy and CDROM drives from the other machine, will it recognise them automatically on boot, and if not, how do I tell it they're there? What OS are available, and whence do I obtain them? I found a FAQ somewhere at compaq.com about installing Linux on some models of Alphaserver - not mine, but could be helpful. Also, what are the various OS useful for? What are the HDDs? (How big, how easy to replace? They are both SCSI afaik) If I decide to stay with VMS, are there any good books on the subject? I have almost no VMS experience (enough to know that I have to PURGE my files from time to time to stop my disk filling up, but that's about it!) Philip. ********************************************************************** This message and any attachments are confidential and should only be read by those to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact us, delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. Any distribution or copying without our prior permission is prohibited. Internet communications are not always secure and therefore the PowerGen Group does not accept legal responsibility for this message. The recipient is responsible for verifying its authenticity before acting on the contents. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the PowerGen Group. Power Technology: Telephone +44 (0) 115 936 2000 Fax +44 (0) 115 936 2711 E-mail techinfo@powertech.co.uk www http://www.powertech.co.uk PowerGen UK plc Registered Office: 53 New Broad Street London EC2M 1SL Registered in England and Wales No: 2366970 ********************************************************************** From frederik at freddym.org Fri Aug 11 12:10:54 2000 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Alphastation help In-Reply-To: <80256938.005C0182.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> Message-ID: Hi! > Not strictly on topic, since these are fairly new - but they were old enough to > be thrown out at work, and I got them for L10 each. It's OK I suppose. > Both machines say Alphastation 200 4/100 on the front, and I think Model > PB40H-CA on the back. Nice machines. > One of them boots openVMS, for which I have no passwords (same old story...). > This machine claims her name is Tracey. See www.openvms.digital.com to see how to hack this system. No problem. > Anyway, if I press ctrl-C when booting Tracey, I can get to the console prompt. > SHOW CONFIG then tells me a bit about what's installed in her: > > SRM Console X3.9-1387 > ARC Console 4.1-22 > PALcode VMS X5.48-87 OSF X1.35-57 > Serial ROM V4.6 > Diag ROM V1.6 > > CPU DECchip 21064-2 at 100MHz > > pka0.7.0.6.0 SCSI 7 > dka0.0.0.6.0 RZ26L (this is whence it boots, BTW) > dka100.1.0.6.0 RZ28 > mka400.4.0.6.0 TLZ07 (This is a tape drive on the SCSI bus. Presumably at > address 4 - forgot to look when I had it in bits) It is address 4 > With some random flag adjustments to the BOOT command, I got it into SYSBOOT, > which has another load of useless things to SHOW and SET. This seems to be part > of VMS, though. It isn't useless. It's to hack the system or make some adjustments so system parameters before the machine boots. It's very good. Read the VMS FAQ. > Can anyone tell me, off list if necessary: > > How do I break into OpenVMS from here? See www.openvms.digital.com in the FAQ > If I put in the floppy and CDROM drives from the other machine, will it > recognise them automatically on boot, and if not, how do I tell it they're > there? They swill be recognized. Have a look at show device > What OS are available, and whence do I obtain them? I found a FAQ somewhere at > compaq.com about installing Linux on some models of Alphaserver - not mine, but > could be helpful. Also, what are the various OS useful for? You can install NetBSD/alpha, OpenVMS/alpha (IMHO the best), Tru64 Unix, FreeBSD/alpha,... > What are the HDDs? (How big, how easy to replace? They are both SCSI afaik) RZ26L is about 1.08GB, and the RZ28 is about 2.xx GB. That's OK. > If I decide to stay with VMS, are there any good books on the subject? I have > almost no VMS experience (enough to know that I have to PURGE my files from time > to time to stop my disk filling up, but that's about it!) Read comp.os.vms.... It's useful. And read the FAQ. It's not hard at all. HTH -- Best Regards, Freddy ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FREEBSD, NETBSD, OPENBSD, TRU64, OPENVMS, ULTRIX, BEOS, LINUX From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Aug 11 14:17:54 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? In-Reply-To: <004301c00320$f14aecb0$85109a8d@ajp166> References: <004301c00320$f14aecb0$85109a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20000811191754.1134.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Suffice to say IDE is not a protocal like SCSI it is a DEVICE > interface and is somewhat uncooked at that. That's a fairly disingenuous claim. Both SCSI and IDE have a "device interface" (physical layer) and a "protocol" (interpretation of bytes in various registers and phases). IDE in fact has two different protocols, ATA and ATAPI; ATAPI protocol is by design very similar to SCSI protocol. As of SCSI 3, there are *many* different SCSI physical layers and several different protocols. From lgwalker at look.ca Fri Aug 11 14:27:41 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: CGA graphics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39941B6D.32027.37A8C9B@localhost> > Hi, > > Does somebody here know the formulas for calculating the offsets and > bits in the CGA memory? Or maybe a quick routine for plotting a pixel? > The BIOS routine sure seems SLOW to me. I'm experimenting with these > older machines, so I'm working a little with these cool graphics > cards! (The CGA is great! Well, I LOVE IT! :-) ) > > Ciao, > > Lionel > > You might see if you can find "A Programmers Guide to PC & PS/2 Systems" Richard Wilton ,published by M-S Press. Came out in 1987 and received rave reviews in all the trade publications. It has ass. routine listings to access BIOS for CGA thru VGA and a wealth of other info on the varios Dos video systems. ciao larry lgwalker@look.ca walkers@altavista.net bigwalk@xoommail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 11 12:46:37 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Omnibus boards In-Reply-To: <200008110458.XAA12535@caesar.cs.umn.edu> from "Lawrence LeMay" at Aug 10, 0 11:58:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 841 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000811/90ea4523/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Aug 11 15:15:05 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: CGA graphics In-Reply-To: <39941B6D.32027.37A8C9B@localhost> References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000811131409.00c93db0@208.226.86.10> > You might see if you can find "A Programmers Guide to PC & >PS/2 Systems" Richard Wilton ,published by M-S Press. Came out >in 1987 and received rave reviews in all the trade publications. It >has ass. routine listings to access BIOS for CGA thru VGA and a >wealth of other info on the varios Dos video systems. Or Michael Abrash's Black Book. (He worked on the Doom series of games) He has a wonderful look at detailed access to the frame buffer (although he focusses somewhat on VGA) --Chuck From richard at idcomm.com Fri Aug 11 15:08:19 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: CGA graphics References: <39941B6D.32027.37A8C9B@localhost> Message-ID: <001101c003cf$e5916ac0$0500c0a8@winbook> There were books written about that. (long enough back that they're probably in your local library!) There were a couple dealing with bitmapped graphics for Turbo (fill in name of language here) and there was one for Qbasic. The use of the BIOS calls was always considered to be the slowest, by the way, but it may not be so bad with today's machines, able to shadow the ROM, and running at 100x the speed of the 5 MHz 8088. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Walker To: Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 1:27 PM Subject: Re: CGA graphics > > > Hi, > > > > Does somebody here know the formulas for calculating the offsets and > > bits in the CGA memory? Or maybe a quick routine for plotting a pixel? > > The BIOS routine sure seems SLOW to me. I'm experimenting with these > > older machines, so I'm working a little with these cool graphics > > cards! (The CGA is great! Well, I LOVE IT! :-) ) > > > > Ciao, > > > > Lionel > > > > > You might see if you can find "A Programmers Guide to PC & > PS/2 Systems" Richard Wilton ,published by M-S Press. Came out > in 1987 and received rave reviews in all the trade publications. It > has ass. routine listings to access BIOS for CGA thru VGA and a > wealth of other info on the varios Dos video systems. > > ciao larry > > lgwalker@look.ca > walkers@altavista.net > bigwalk@xoommail.com > > From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Aug 11 15:39:14 2000 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Y2K Patches for V5.03 of RT-11 Message-ID: <39946472.BC1D52AB@idirect.com> Please note: I sent the following post to "alt.sys.pdp11" and "vmsnet.pdp-11". While I presume that almost all of the RT-11 people also follow those two news groups, I thought that there may be a few who don't. It is certainly on topic, since V5.03 of RT-11 was released in 1985. After working with RT-11 for over 20 years starting with V2.0, I was asked about Y2K patches for V5.04G by a customer who finally could wait no longer. I had already produced these Y2K patches for myself, but there seemed to be little if any interest among commercial users in general. So when I set out to provide this customer with the fixes needed to run that version when it was to be used after 31-Dec-1999, it was not necessary to fix everything in V5.04G. Only 7 of the utility programs were needed to be made Y2K compatible, i.e. DIR, PIP, LINK, LIBR, IND, BUP and MACRO. While I am sure that further work could be considered if required (and there was interest), these 7 are probably the most important and frequently used - along with the source code patches needed for the monitor files. Note that these patches have been in continual commercial use for many years without any problems except that when they did their initial checkout, the dates of: 29-Feb-1999, 30-Feb-1999 and 31-Feb-1999 were found to be acceptable to the DATE command. After working with RT-11 for so many years, I had finally accepted that bug as a feature and forgotten to correct it in the KMOVLY.MAC file. At this point, all of my Y2K work bubble is finished and complete, and I would like to make these Y2K patches available to hobby users. However, as far as I understand, only V5.03 of RT-11 qualifies to be used under the Supnik emulator for hobby use free of charge. Since Megan Gentry has already provided some source code patches for RMONSJ, RMONFB and KMOVLY for V5.03 of RT-11, I thought that I could retro-fit the Y2K patches made for V5.04G back into V5.03 so that hobby users could enjoy a mostly Y2K version of RT-11 at this time. I would therefore ask for four things: 1. If anyone, including Megan Gentry, would be willing to host the Y2K patches, preferably the actual final SAV file which should not pose a problem since the distribution SAV file for each of the 7 utilities mentioned is already freely available for download under the restriction that it be used by hobby users under the Supnik emulator. 2. How much interest there actually is in having V5.03 made as Y2K compatible as possible at this time. 3. If there is anyone who would be interested in helping with a beta test. 4. If there is anyone who is interested in helping with any questions as the exactly what should be done, including how to insure that the legal aspects are covered and that the code can not be taken over by any commercial users, not that this latter aspect is likely at this time. At this point, I intend to at the very least, to produce the Y2K patches for one of the above utilities so that it can be seen that there is some definite interest to begin the job. Please note that while I have no work related projects that need to be done at this point, I have a large number of household jobs that have already been delayed for far too long and that it may take a few months before I get into high gear on the Y2K patches for V5.03 project. But, as wives have indicated on many occasions, there is often many a slip between the cup and the lip and she may have other plans that I am not aware of right now. However, I presently consider myself totally in the hobby category at this point in time, especially and in particular as far as RT-11 is concerned. This would allow Mentec to finalize any plans for hobby releases of PDP-11 software, as has been indicated on their web site for over two months, but still nothing has been made public. But in lieu of that happening - which would free up useful time for other enhancements to RT-11, it is hopeful that at least the above 7 utilities in V5.03 of RT-11 could be completed for hobby users sometime next year and perhaps before the end of 2000 if there is sufficient interest - and I don't have too much snow to shovel starting in December:-) NOTE: The following paragraph is really only for "vmsnet.pdp-11"!!!!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finally, and completely contrary to what Stuart Brook implied some months ago when he again complained that I was "whining" about the lack of hobby use licenses for RT-11 by Mentec/Compaq/DEC, I would be only too happy to see Mentec allow V5.07 to be made available to hobby users at this time, as Compaq/DEC have already done with current versions of VMS - and I understand at zero cost. I have included this paragraph ONLY because in the past, there has been this type of response from Stuart. If no adverse comments are received from Stuart or anyone else, then I will assume that there are no objections from Mentec as to the above course of action. I guess that this paragraph can also be construed as a legal notice as to an intended course of action. Any and all feedback would be appreciated. Is there still anyone who even cares? Also, in case anyone is interested, you can download V5.03 at: ftp://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/digital/sim/software/rtv53swre.tar.Z Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From jimoaks at one.net Fri Aug 11 16:37:50 2000 From: jimoaks at one.net (Jim Oaks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:48 2005 Subject: Classicmag.net Message-ID: Hello everyone, id like to announce a new project im starting, The ClassicMag project. The goal of this project is to preserve classic computing and gaming magazines for extinction. Most of us classic collectors love to have magazines for the systems we collect as, in the past the provided an immense resource for reviews, news, insights and programs. The goal of this project will be to preserve old out of print magazine issues in a PDF format. These will be scanned complete issues with advertisements let in, as they are as interesting and have just as much nostalgia value. Our web site is currently up at http://www.classicmag.net there's not a lot there as of yet but with everyone's help I hope to fill it soon. I've got a tremendous amount of space to be able to host these files. What I'm looking for is help from the community, if you have old issues, anything to do with computers or video gaming, please consider scanning them in getting them to us. If you can't put them in pdf form, no problem we can work out a way for you to get them images to us and we will get them in pdf form. I have a small list of magazines on the site now for some different systems, if you know of any I don't have listed please email with the details. I want this to be as complete as possible. I'm going to try and stay with mags published before 1995. I don't want to run into a lot of copyright issues. As always if a mag is on our site and the publisher, if there still around, wishes it not be there we will take it down, but hope they consider this project worthwhile and let us keep them there. I believe this will be a great resource for everyone to be able to get a hold of some mags that are gone, but not forgotten. If you want to help with this project please email me at jim@classicmag.net . I look forward to hearing from people. Thanks Jim Oaks http://www.classicmag.net From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Fri Aug 11 16:49:06 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Classicmag.net In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c003dd$f9aa30b0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Re: preserve (from) extinction I have over 100 issues in over 12 titles, so Should be interested in helping. I would like to get a list of Needs first... Really don't want to scan the whole lot of them. John A. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Aug 11 17:58:54 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: M8207 anyone? Message-ID: <003601c003e8$3c654660$e90a9a8d@ajp166> From: Eric Smith >> Suffice to say IDE is not a protocal like SCSI it is a DEVICE >> interface and is somewhat uncooked at that. > >That's a fairly disingenuous claim. Both SCSI and IDE have a "device >interface" (physical layer) and a "protocol" (interpretation of bytes >in various registers and phases). In one sense your right and in another your making it look complex where it's not. For scsi I have to deal with the SCSI interface chip (really nasty if it's 5380!). For IDE I write/read to registers at addresses, al having specific function. there is some sense of sequence and if you want it to work you need to talk to the right one in the right order or garbage ensues. I liken it more to talking to an Z80 SIO raw than making the SIO do HDLC and at the end of that link getting something to happen. IDE is much simpler. I've done SCSI it's not! >IDE in fact has two different protocols, ATA and ATAPI; ATAPI protocol >is by design very similar to SCSI protocol. Already known. >As of SCSI 3, there are *many* different SCSI physical layers and >several different protocols. The difference between IDE and SCSI(any) is that from the CPU side if I want to write the cylinder address to IDE I address the correct register and write (assuming not LBA). For SCSI I first have to talk to the scsi chip and tell it what to say to the disk. The later already is a full layer of protocal from what you want to do. The point originally being that IDE is the simplest disk interface there is of the available sets and from doing a driver for z80 I can say its easier than floppy as the interface if buffered, not time critical reads or writes as the data flys by. Allison From dburrows at netpath.net Fri Aug 11 18:17:02 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Omnibus boards Message-ID: <00f801c003ea$67dfba80$a652e780@L166> I have a fair # of the docs for these. I won't have the time to dig them out until late next week however. If you will remind me off list toward the end of next week and forward your add I will dig them out and drop them in UPS to you. All I ask is please make copies and return them sometime within a month or so. Dan > >The remaining boards are from VG Data Systems. Someone here once mentioned >they had information about some of these boards, and i'd like to know >if any of these boards might be useful, or easily modified to be >useful: > >PB-8E-101 >PB-8E-102 >PB-8E-202 on a standard DEC wirewrap board, should be able to make > something out of it. >PB-8E-504 2 of this board >PB-8E-505 >PB-8A-603 >PB-8E-644 input connector has written: works as MS30, PDP8 [C:] > >-Lawrence LeMay From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Aug 11 18:30:52 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Omnibus boards In-Reply-To: <00f801c003ea$67dfba80$a652e780@L166> from "Daniel T. Burrows" at "Aug 11, 2000 07:17:02 pm" Message-ID: <200008112330.SAA13788@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Thanks, I really appreciate it. Lawrence LeMay 100 Union Street SE 190 Shepherd Labs Minneapolis, MN 55455 -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu > I have a fair # of the docs for these. I won't have the time to dig them > out until late next week however. If you will remind me off list toward the > end of next week and forward your add I will dig them out and drop them in > UPS to you. All I ask is please make copies and return them sometime within > a month or so. > > Dan > > > >The remaining boards are from VG Data Systems. Someone here once mentioned > >they had information about some of these boards, and i'd like to know > >if any of these boards might be useful, or easily modified to be > >useful: > > > >PB-8E-101 > >PB-8E-102 > >PB-8E-202 on a standard DEC wirewrap board, should be able to make > > something out of it. > >PB-8E-504 2 of this board > >PB-8E-505 > >PB-8A-603 > >PB-8E-644 input connector has written: works as MS30, PDP8 [C:] > > > >-Lawrence LeMay > From rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com Fri Aug 11 18:35:38 2000 From: rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Classicmag.net In-Reply-To: ; from Jim Oaks on Fri, Aug 11, 2000 at 05:37:50PM -0400 References: Message-ID: <20000811163537.F19607@electron.quantum.int> On Fri, Aug 11, 2000 at 05:37:50PM -0400, Jim Oaks wrote: > Hello everyone, id like to announce a new project im starting, The > ClassicMag project. The goal of this project is to preserve classic Have you found a good technique for scanning them? It's labor-intensive flipping the pages by hand. Also, the ongoing problem I've had with half-tone images is that the dots beat with the sample dots of the scanner and create a moire pattern. In 1994 I worked with an high-end Arcus scanner which could corrrect this beautifully; most likely it was done in software. But every time I ask supposedly knowledgeable people how to do this in software I get lame answers like "just scan at a higher resolution" or "scan at the same resolution as the dot pitch of the screen" or "use Gaussian blur to smooth the dots together". The first preserves the screen very well, but that is not the goal; the goal is to recreate the original unscreened photo as accurately as possible. The second does not take into account the fact that scanners do not adjust their optical resolution on demand.... a fundamentally 300DPI CCD told to scan at 133 DPI is still going to beat with the halftone dots. The third throws away a lot of information. I suspect the right solution involves a really high-resolution scan, so that each halftone dot is an image in itself; and then use some software technique. The maximum recoverable resolution is probably the same as the dot pitch... or maybe a bit more with the use of edge detection or something like that. I doubt Acrobat solves this problem, but alas, it's not free software, and it runs only on Macs and Windows machines, and costs significant cash so I've never gotten around to trying it out... no doubt I would be disappointed anyway. The Arcus scanner driver required you to specify the screen pitch. I think most likely any software which does not ask you for this information, is not going to do a very good job on screened images. Anyway... the ideal scanner would be able to accept a stack of unbound magazine pages, hundreds at a time, and churn through them without misfeeding; and there would be image processing software to get rid of the moire patterns and make smooth photos of any areas which are screened, always detecting those areas correctly (as opposed to text areas); while also doing Acrobat's tricks of trying to OCR the text, and substituting bitmap areas when that's not possible. I haven't started this project myself because I can't find a method that doesn't suck. Oh... and even if you had all this, some magazines have "sidebars" which are text printed on top of a screened color background; and those usually get detected as images by OCR software, so the text ends up not being searchable. I have tried this using Omnipage, and its image/text differentiation is usually wrong several times per page. Meanwhile, there is a little known image format called DejaVu which I have successfully used; it doesn't try to do any OCR, but it does manage to store a surprisingly good image in a small amount of space. The license terms for it are also not perfect but at least there is a Linux version. You need a free browser plugin to view the images. More info at http://www.djvu.att.com/ For example, check out the Radio Shack DX300 shortwave receiver service manual at http://gw.kb7pwd.ampr.org/manuals/DX300/ Oh and in the end the majority of publishers would probably object to this anyway... especially since they're such big conglomerates, one solid complaint could destroy the biggest share of your work. I'm interested in putting my small collection of Heathkit manuals online too, but those copyrights are owned by a company which sells reprints, and no doubt pursues copyright violations vigorously, since the reprints are their main profit center. Maybe Freenet will enable distribution of this stuff. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ Get money for spare CPU cycles at http://www.ProcessTree.com/?sponsor=5903 From vcf at siconic.com Sat Aug 12 00:29:23 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Exhibit at VCF 4.0! Message-ID: If you are planning to participate in the VCF 4.0 Exhibit then now is the time to register! The cut-off date for exhibit registration is September 20th. http://www.vintage.org/2000/exhibit.html Keep in mind that aside from the fabulous cash and prizes you can win, you will have a group of adoring groupies worhsipping your nerdliness! Register today!! Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From west at tseinc.com Sat Aug 12 10:44:00 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: test - please ignore Message-ID: <000701c00474$23388d00$0101a8c0@jay> testing something on the mail archives. Please ignore. Jay West From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Sat Aug 12 18:19:38 2000 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: noisy Lisa Widget drive Message-ID: <33909238@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Hey, Someone saw my Lisa page and emailed me the following. I told him I'm pass it on to the list. Any ideas for this fellow? (I will fwd, or email him directly: adamg@trideja.com, Adam Goolevitch.) Thanks, -- MB ------------------------ >Hi, I have an Apple Lisa 2/10. I am having a problem with the internal >Widget drive. When the drive is spinning, it makes a horrible noise - >like the bearings are shot or something? It it is a rattly-grindy sound. >Any ideas as to how to fix this? From aw288 at osfn.org Sat Aug 12 18:49:07 2000 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: RCS/RI fleamarket Message-ID: The Retro Computing Society of Rhode Island will be holding a big flea market to help us make room in our crowded millspace in Providence, Rhode Island. It will be held during our September Open House on the 16th of the month (third Saturday), from roughly 11am to 4pm. If you are going to be around, stop by for a selection of very nicely priced computers - many classic micros (sorry, no Altairs or Imsais!), terminals, printers, maybe a workstation or two, cables, books, all sorts of things you never knew you needed to have. Conditions vary from working and good to dead and (half) buried. Proceeds will of course go to various RCS/RI projects (electrical upgrade, shelves, rent). For directions, see our sight at www.osfn.org/rcs. And of course, there will be the usual amount of RCS/RI fun and geekiness. Show up early, Merle. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From lgwalker at look.ca Sat Aug 12 18:56:44 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Classicmag.net Message-ID: <3995ABFC.27921.99776D9@localhost> > Hello everyone, id like to announce a new project im starting, The > ClassicMag project. The goal of this project is to preserve classic > computing and gaming magazines for extinction. Most of us classic > collectors love to have magazines for the systems we collect as, in > the past the provided an immense resource for reviews, news, > insights and programs. The goal of this project will be to preserve > old out of print magazine issues in a PDF format. These will be > scanned complete issues with advertisements let in, as they are as > interesting and have just as much nostalgia value. Our web site is > currently up at http://www.classicmag.net there's not a lot there as > of yet but with everyone's help I hope to fill it soon. I've got a > tremendous amount of space to be able to host these files. What I'm > looking for is help from the community, if you have old issues, > anything to do with computers or video gaming, please consider > scanning them in getting them to us. If you can't put them in pdf > form, no problem we can work out a way for you to get them images to > us and we will get them in pdf form. I have a small list of > magazines on the site now for some different systems, if you know of > any I don't have listed please email with the details. I want this > to be as complete as possible. I'm going to try and stay with mags > published before 1995. I don't want to run into a lot of copyright > issues. As always if a mag is on our site and the publisher, if > there still around, wishes it not be there we will take it down, but > hope they consider this project worthwhile and let us keep them > there. I believe this will be a great resource for everyone to be > able to get a hold of some mags that are gone, but not forgotten. If > you want to help with this project please email me at > jim@classicmag.net . I look forward to hearing from people. > > Thanks > Jim Oaks > http://www.classicmag.net > > Well not to rain on anyones parade, but this sounds like a lifetime project. Kevin Stavetz' excellent Antic and Start page; http://www.atarimagazines.com/ with a lot of help from Atari fans has taken 4 years so far and is still not completed. He also had the permission of the publisher. Antic issues published: 88 Complete text online: 71 issues (80.6%) Downloadable software: 79 issues (90%) STart issues published: 42 Complete text online: 0 (0%) Downloadable software: 30 issues (71%) Total disk space: more than 86 MB I must have over 100 ST Format , ST Review, and ST User mags and this is by no means complete. I also have a single issue of ST Log -- issue 33 !! Then there are many other Atari mags such as Current Notes, Atari Connection, and ST World and a multitude of game mags. And this is only Atari. The Rainbow Coco mag had around 140 issues and was over 100 pages pages in many issues. It is also sold on disk by the former publisher. Zif-Davis also published the TRS80 Color Computer mag and others. Lots of luck with them :^) Future Publishing which put out the ST/Amiga/PC Format and others would likely fall heavily on anyone infringing on their copyright. Perhaps a more realistic goal would be to focus on several discontinued mag platforms or some of the classic mags such as Datamation. TMK a listing of all the computer mags published is not available and would be a valuable aid. Also article indexes of popular mags. IIRC there is one such available for Rainbow. Sorry to be so negative, but a reality check is in order. ciao larry lgwalker@look.ca walkers@altavista.net bigwalk@xoommail.com From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Aug 13 00:33:39 2000 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: noisy Lisa Widget drive References: <33909238@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: <002601c004e8$0c79b340$1999b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > Hey, > > Someone saw my Lisa page and emailed me the following. I told him I'm pass it on to the list. Any ideas for this fellow? (I will fwd, or email him directly: adamg@trideja.com, Adam Goolevitch.) > > Thanks, > > -- MB > > ------------------------ > >Hi, I have an Apple Lisa 2/10. I am having a problem with the internal > >Widget drive. When the drive is spinning, it makes a horrible noise - > >like the bearings are shot or something? It it is a rattly-grindy sound. > >Any ideas as to how to fix this? > I have a similar situation on my Mac Portable -- the drive screeches when it spins after warming up, although it otherwise works. Any ideas? -W From lemay at cs.umn.edu Sun Aug 13 00:52:56 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: noisy Lisa Widget drive In-Reply-To: <002601c004e8$0c79b340$1999b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> from "Wayne M. Smith" at "Aug 12, 2000 10:33:39 pm" Message-ID: <200008130552.AAA15153@caesar.cs.umn.edu> [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > Hey, > > > > Someone saw my Lisa page and emailed me the > following. I told him I'm pass it on to the list. Any > ideas for this fellow? (I will fwd, or email him > directly: adamg@trideja.com, Adam Goolevitch.) > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- MB > > > > ------------------------ > > >Hi, I have an Apple Lisa 2/10. I am having a problem > with the internal > > >Widget drive. When the drive is spinning, it makes a > horrible noise - > > >like the bearings are shot or something? It it is a > rattly-grindy sound. > > >Any ideas as to how to fix this? > > > I have a similar situation on my Mac Portable -- the > drive screeches when it spins after warming up, > although it otherwise works. Any ideas? > Yes. You replace the drive thats dieing, preferrably before it dies completely so that you can copy any important data or drivers from it. -Lawrence LeMay From wmsmith at earthlink.net Sun Aug 13 01:17:28 2000 From: wmsmith at earthlink.net (Wayne M. Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: noisy Lisa Widget drive References: <200008130552.AAA15153@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <002e01c004ee$2881d9e0$1999b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> > > I have a similar situation on my Mac Portable -- the > > drive screeches when it spins after warming up, > > although it otherwise works. Any ideas? > > > > Yes. You replace the drive thats dieing, preferrably before it dies > completely so that you can copy any important data or drivers from > it. > I guess I meant, any ideas why it's screeching? From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 13 03:55:20 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: noisy Lisa Widget drive In-Reply-To: <002e01c004ee$2881d9e0$1999b2d1@Smith.earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 12 Aug 2000, Wayne M. Smith wrote: > I guess I meant, any ideas why it's screeching? Probably a bearing going bad. Or worse. I had a major hard drive crash in the recent past and it ended up being the internal filter coming loose and jamming itself into the heads. It had been screeching (probably as you describe) occasionally for a couple years. I'd been meaning to replace it, but I thought it was the OTHER drive (the unimportant one) that was making the noise :( Anyway, probably bearings going bad, something like that. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From bmahoney2001 at sympatico.ca Sun Aug 13 08:10:11 2000 From: bmahoney2001 at sympatico.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Classicmag.net References: <20000811163537.F19607@electron.quantum.int> Message-ID: <000701c00527$d03d0fe0$3b68e540@dads> I've got a ton of mags, as has everyone I suppose. The thought of scanning them all is frightening, but the thought of losing them forever is just as frightening. Re: the moire problem, I have a Umax Vista S8 which does a wonderful job whatever the origin, so I will jot down the technique next time I scan a mag. Re: distribution. Why not tag a ride on the coattails of Napster? Once each of us gets enough stuff scanned, we could rename the files .mp3 and use Napster to distribute them. Want Tpug June '83? Search for tpug683.mp3 and change it to .pdf once you get it. I think you get the picture... Re: .pdf creation. Several apps can save documents as .pdf, so you don't have to go with the Adobe original. Illustrator is one example, and I thought Word did too, might be mistaken. An admirable but overwhelming project, best of luck! Copying the Bible by hand must have seemed just as overwhelming to the monks of the middle-ages but they did it.... one page at a time. Brian Mahoney From ncherry at home.net Sun Aug 13 09:57:12 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: [OT] Power and NIC questions Message-ID: <3996B748.8CDB1070@home.net> I need to double check a diagnostic I'm making. I have a board that fried the a 1/2W ceramic resitor (in the -12V section of the PS). It also took out a tant cap and the fuses for the +/- 12v (between the MB and the PS). I suspect the RS232 driver chips but I need to know if the ethernet nic (aui & bnc) use -12v. Anyone? -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From vaxman at uswest.net Sun Aug 13 10:14:16 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Classicmag.net In-Reply-To: <000701c00527$d03d0fe0$3b68e540@dads> Message-ID: Hi, Napster doesn't allow the distribution of files which aren't mp3's. They apparently check the internal format and balk otherwise. There is a program called wrapster which will take ANY file, and make it into an mp3 good enough to fool napster. That being said, it looks like napster is going to either go away, or be forced into a much more active stance on copyright protection. There are alternate decentralized sharing program which are not concerned with file types, such as gnutella (www.gnutty.co.uk?) for example. The major disadvantage of such a scheme is the danger of 'losing' a large portion of the database because not enough people are archiving it. A better solution is to hang four 40Gb IDE drives off a PC running *nix, and serve them up with HTTP or FTP (or NFS if you want to live dangerously). This is my plan for the DEC fiche (and other documentation) I am planning to scan. A simple web page on uswest.net with links to the actual files on my home machine through DSL. I haven't yet decided on an access control system, probably something simple like username: classiccmp, password: DECrulez! Depending on storage and bandwidth requirements, I would volunteer to mirror some or all of the magazine database as well. clint PS Cirrus stock closed at 27 1/2 so I'm buying a fiche scanner!!! On Sun, 13 Aug 2000, Brian Mahoney wrote: > Re: distribution. Why not tag a ride on the coattails of Napster? Once each > of us gets enough stuff scanned, we could rename the files .mp3 and use > Napster to distribute them. Want Tpug June '83? Search for tpug683.mp3 and > change it to .pdf once you get it. I think you get the picture... <\sNipster> From Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de Sun Aug 13 12:45:06 2000 From: Fritz_Chwolka at t-online.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: New found Message-ID: <13O0pY-1C685wC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> At the weekend I got a MicroVax 3300 and a VaxStation II. Badly the keyboard and monitor are lost but I believe a DEC Rainbow100 is a good terminal . Or - I use OS/2 with a lot of comports- is there a terminalprogramm for os/2 with a good VT100 emulation ? So I'll try to give the a new live but with VMS I believe I have no understood. There is no diskdrive connected to the 2 vaxes but I have a lot of tapes, all (It looks so because there are so much) manuals and some cd's. I must look what I got and make a survey . First I make a hardware summary looking what modules , drives and ports are there. If someone can give me a shoot where to start I will be glad . Fritz Chwolka /collecting old computers just for fun\ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 13 11:35:02 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: [OT] Power and NIC questions In-Reply-To: <3996B748.8CDB1070@home.net> from "Neil Cherry" at Aug 13, 0 10:57:12 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1080 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000813/50e5c3f2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 13 11:39:35 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: noisy Lisa Widget drive In-Reply-To: <200008130552.AAA15153@caesar.cs.umn.edu> from "Lawrence LeMay" at Aug 13, 0 00:52:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1231 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000813/46c81845/attachment.ksh From ncherry at home.net Sun Aug 13 12:26:11 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: [OT] Power and NIC questions References: Message-ID: <3996DA33.139C8ADF@home.net> Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > I need to double check a diagnostic I'm making. I have a board that fried > > the a 1/2W ceramic resitor (in the -12V section of the PS). It also took > > out a tant cap and the fuses for the +/- 12v (between the MB and the PS). > > Are you sure it wasn't just that the tants shorted and took out the > resistor and fuses? I've had plenty of tantalum bead capacitors do that > over the years. Good news/bad news. Good news is that the 12v part of the system is work. Bad news is that one of the 28F020's smoked. > > I suspect the RS232 driver chips but I need to know if the ethernet nic > > (aui & bnc) use -12v. Anyone? > > You're going to love this : Probably not, but it might do! > > The thing is that the AUI port, and the internal 10base2 transceiver need > a 12V supply. But that supply can float with respect to the data lines > (which are transformer-isolated anyway) and with respect to local ground. Here is what I've been able to determine so far: 1) 5V section is fine. 2) -12V section has a major short (measured 0 ohms across it, not the power supply). 3) The flash programming circuit has a problem. 4) The NIC seems to work as the hub now recognizes it but I haven't seen what traffic is on it. Sniffer doesn't show a MAC address or anything. But that may be the sniffer. Conclusion/assumptions: 1) 5V is working, there for the main part of the mother board is unaffected. 2) Fails diags at LAN (7 error lights), may be SQE setting. 3) 28F020 fried but it's for D/L of image from tftp server. 4) -12v is only for RS232, there for short exists in that section. Of course this is kind of weak right now. BTW, the reason I asked the question here is that folks like us (real hackers) tend to want to fix things and have the right kind of software/hardware knowledge for this kind of stuff. BTW(2), this is my $2 ebay find, a Nupon LTS-4 terminal server. When I fix it I'll upgrade it to an 8 by adding the components. I should probably let it go since I also have another terminal server on the way. But old electronics shouldn't just be tossed in the trash, kind of feels wrong (yes I'm out of my mind). -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From richard at idcomm.com Sun Aug 13 12:31:52 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: [OT] Power and NIC questions References: Message-ID: <001901c0054c$5f60b2c0$0500c0a8@winbook> I'll certainly second the statement about the Tantalum cap's. I once had a fire in my AMPRO system because of a shorted Tantalum, and, having seen the smoke emanating from the rear of the PSU (I hd used a PC-style case) immediately assumed the fault was in the often considered flaky power supply (this was in the mid-80's). In the process of prying the grommet with all the various power leads out of the supply case, I stuck a 1/2"-wide screwdriver I was using as a prybar, about 1" into my hand. (think about where you can stick a screwdriver 1" into your hand and not go out the other side ... ) Half a day and over $1k in medical expenses later, I looked at the Little Board and saw the burned spot where the cap had been. If Only I'd looked before I lept . . . About a year ago I once again was powering up an old Ampro Little Board, and, sure enough! ... the -12 was pulled down by a shorted tantalum bead. Apparently they do not age well. BTW, AUI uses -12 and +12 from the supply on most cards that support it. The coax gets an isolated negative voltage generated locally on the NIC, generally with a little switcher module. These are handy to hang onto when you're faced with a broken NIC. They generally make a nice -9-volt source for boxes that have no other negative supply, and that's satisfactory for RS-232. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Duell To: Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 10:35 AM Subject: Re: [OT] Power and NIC questions > > > > I need to double check a diagnostic I'm making. I have a board that fried > > the a 1/2W ceramic resitor (in the -12V section of the PS). It also took > > out a tant cap and the fuses for the +/- 12v (between the MB and the PS). > > Are you sure it wasn't just that the tants shorted and took out the > resistor and fuses? I've had plenty of tantalum bead capacitors do that > over the years. > > > I suspect the RS232 driver chips but I need to know if the ethernet nic > > (aui & bnc) use -12v. Anyone? > > You're going to love this : Probably not, but it might do! > > The thing is that the AUI port, and the internal 10base2 transceiver need > a 12V supply. But that supply can float with respect to the data lines > (which are transformer-isolated anyway) and with respect to local ground. > > Now most manufacturers use the +12V and ground lines from the PSU for > transceiver power. But at least one used ground and -12V. The only way to > be sure is to check where the power pins on the DA15 connector go, and > where the input to the DC-DC converter for the built in transceiver goes. > > -tony > > From ncherry at home.net Sun Aug 13 13:38:14 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: [OT] Power and NIC questions References: <001901c0054c$5f60b2c0$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <3996EB16.E3845E6D@home.net> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > I'll certainly second the statement about the Tantalum cap's. I once had a > fire in my AMPRO system because of a shorted Tantalum, and, having seen the > smoke emanating from the rear of the PSU (I hd used a PC-style case) > immediately assumed the fault was in the often considered flaky power supply > (this was in the mid-80's). > > In the process of prying the grommet with all the various power leads out of > the supply case, I stuck a 1/2"-wide screwdriver I was using as a prybar, > about 1" into my hand. (think about where you can stick a screwdriver 1" > into your hand and not go out the other side ... ) Half a day and over $1k > in medical expenses later, I looked at the Little Board and saw the burned > spot where the cap had been. If Only I'd looked before I lept . . . Ouch, that's all I have to say about that .... > About a year ago I once again was powering up an old Ampro Little Board, > and, sure enough! ... the -12 was pulled down by a shorted tantalum bead. > Apparently they do not age well. > > BTW, AUI uses -12 and +12 from the supply on most cards that support it. > The coax gets an isolated negative voltage generated locally on the NIC, > generally with a little switcher module. These are handy to hang onto when > you're faced with a broken NIC. They generally make a nice -9-volt source > for boxes that have no other negative supply, and that's satisfactory for > RS-232. Ah. the cap can still be a problem (many tant's on the MB). Well I'll see what's going on a little later as I'll check the ub to see if it can see a MAC address. This will fill me in on further details of the problem. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Sun Aug 13 14:55:25 2000 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: OT: Action Max help? Message-ID: <33918265@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 272 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000813/3f96b2a2/attachment.bin From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 13 14:27:12 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Classicmag.net In-Reply-To: <000701c00527$d03d0fe0$3b68e540@dads> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Aug 2000, Brian Mahoney wrote: > Re: distribution. Why not tag a ride on the coattails of Napster? Once each > of us gets enough stuff scanned, we could rename the files .mp3 and use > Napster to distribute them. Want Tpug June '83? Search for tpug683.mp3 and > change it to .pdf once you get it. I think you get the picture... Use Gnutella instead. > An admirable but overwhelming project, best of luck! Copying the Bible by > hand must have seemed just as overwhelming to the monks of the middle-ages > but they did it.... one page at a time. Copying by hand is just one level below photocopying. Still work, but far less than this process of scanning magazine pages. Anyway, it's still a lot (A LOT!) of work. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 13 14:29:41 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: OT: Action Max help? In-Reply-To: <33918265@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> Message-ID: On 13 Aug 2000, Marion Bates wrote: > Sorry to litter the list with a video game question, but I just picked up an > Action Max game system which is complete minus the instructions, and I'm > wondering where you plug in the RCA cables on the VCR. Anyone familiar with > this thing? I've got one in my collection and was wondering the same thing when I got it (a couple years ago :) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Aug 13 15:24:10 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: [OT] Power and NIC questions In-Reply-To: <3996DA33.139C8ADF@home.net> from "Neil Cherry" at Aug 13, 0 01:26:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1611 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000813/586fafe2/attachment.ksh From Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu Sun Aug 13 16:00:42 2000 From: Marion.Bates at dartmouth.edu (Marion Bates) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: OT: Action Max help? Message-ID: <33919039@dasher.Dartmouth.EDU> --- Sellam Ismail wrote: > Sorry to litter the list with a video game question, but I just picked up an > Action Max game system which is complete minus the instructions, and I'm > wondering where you plug in the RCA cables on the VCR. Anyone familiar with > this thing? I've got one in my collection and was wondering the same thing when I got it (a couple years ago :) --- end of quote --- As far as I can tell, the RCA's simply go to the VCR audio-out jacks so the video's sound can go through the console (and you can then adjust the volume and stereo using the console's controls). Seems to work fine this way, but I probably need to mess with the TV brightness some more...it's finicky about sensing the gun even when I hold the barrel 3 inches from the screen. Also had to take the gun apart and file down all the little plastic boogers (from where it came out of the mold) so the trigger wouldn't stick. -- MB From richard at idcomm.com Sun Aug 13 20:46:05 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: [OT] Power and NIC questions References: <001901c0054c$5f60b2c0$0500c0a8@winbook> <3996EB16.E3845E6D@home.net> Message-ID: <001401c00591$69c9bf00$0500c0a8@winbook> What reminds me of the experience I had is the dead short you reported between -12 and ground. A tantalum cap will make it look like that, and, once some current runs through them you find out it's not really a short, since they get hot and catch fire. Once they do that, of course, it opens the short and you can readily see what's up. I don't recommend putting on a higher current supply to do this, however, since traces may go before the cap. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Neil Cherry To: Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2000 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Power and NIC questions > Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > > I'll certainly second the statement about the Tantalum cap's. I once had a > > fire in my AMPRO system because of a shorted Tantalum, and, having seen the > > smoke emanating from the rear of the PSU (I hd used a PC-style case) > > immediately assumed the fault was in the often considered flaky power supply > > (this was in the mid-80's). > > > > In the process of prying the grommet with all the various power leads out of > > the supply case, I stuck a 1/2"-wide screwdriver I was using as a prybar, > > about 1" into my hand. (think about where you can stick a screwdriver 1" > > into your hand and not go out the other side ... ) Half a day and over $1k > > in medical expenses later, I looked at the Little Board and saw the burned > > spot where the cap had been. If Only I'd looked before I lept . . . > > Ouch, that's all I have to say about that .... > > > About a year ago I once again was powering up an old Ampro Little Board, > > and, sure enough! ... the -12 was pulled down by a shorted tantalum bead. > > Apparently they do not age well. > > > > BTW, AUI uses -12 and +12 from the supply on most cards that support it. > > The coax gets an isolated negative voltage generated locally on the NIC, > > generally with a little switcher module. These are handy to hang onto when > > you're faced with a broken NIC. They generally make a nice -9-volt source > > for boxes that have no other negative supply, and that's satisfactory for > > RS-232. > > Ah. the cap can still be a problem (many tant's on the MB). Well I'll see > what's going on a little later as I'll check the ub to see if it can see > a MAC address. This will fill me in on further details of the problem. > > -- > Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net > http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) > http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) > http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) > > From ncherry at home.net Sun Aug 13 21:45:44 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: [OT] Power and NIC questions References: <001901c0054c$5f60b2c0$0500c0a8@winbook> <3996EB16.E3845E6D@home.net> <001401c00591$69c9bf00$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <39975D58.C17E35FE@home.net> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > What reminds me of the experience I had is the dead short you reported > between -12 and ground. A tantalum cap will make it look like that, and, > once some current runs through them you find out it's not really a short, > since they get hot and catch fire. Once they do that, of course, it opens > the short and you can readily see what's up. I don't recommend putting on a > higher current supply to do this, however, since traces may go before the > cap. > > Dick Well here are the 'current' standings (sorry I couldn't 'resist' ;-). The +/-12v is now working, seems that 1 28F020 and 1 tant cap needed to be sacrified to the electronic gods (I'm still not sure of the Flash circuitry). I can receive from the Terminal server. I get it's output message and it's startup. It passes the internal and external loopback (I'm not totally sure I know what that means). It passes the serial local loopback tests and attempts to remote boot. At this point it fails to do anything which could mean it's not setup correctly or the ethernet is the source of the problems. I still have to get it to accept commands from the PC/Terminal. That's next! Thanks -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From ncherry at home.net Sun Aug 13 23:11:27 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: [OT] Power and NIC questions References: <001901c0054c$5f60b2c0$0500c0a8@winbook> <3996EB16.E3845E6D@home.net> <001401c00591$69c9bf00$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <3997716F.C12ACB35@home.net> Well weirder things have happened but I've managed to get the terminal server to boot up, communicate via a PC/Terminal (send/receive), and to attempt to boot from the aui port on the nic. Seems that I'm now being beaten up by a password! Well I think an eprom burner should take care of that. That and a zapping of the battery backedup static ram. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 14 02:52:04 2000 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Weekend Finds Message-ID: <8025693B.002AE1E7.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> A few weeks ago our local car boot sale started up again for the summer. After a couple of weeks of singularly unhackish sales, I finally struck... Yesterday I spent a total of L29 and one pair of trousers, and got: Four books (two on electronics, one on geography, and "Magnetic Amplifiers and Saturable Reactors" by M G Say) A BBC Master in the compact case, complete with 3.25 inch dual disk drive and Microvitec Cub monitor And the real find: New (I'm told never used), in original box, a Penman. Fun.... Philip. ********************************************************************** This message and any attachments are confidential and should only be read by those to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact us, delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. Any distribution or copying without our prior permission is prohibited. Internet communications are not always secure and therefore the PowerGen Group does not accept legal responsibility for this message. The recipient is responsible for verifying its authenticity before acting on the contents. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the PowerGen Group. Power Technology: Telephone +44 (0) 115 936 2000 Fax +44 (0) 115 936 2711 E-mail techinfo@powertech.co.uk www http://www.powertech.co.uk PowerGen UK plc Registered Office: 53 New Broad Street London EC2M 1SL Registered in England and Wales No: 2366970 ********************************************************************** From lionelp at worldonline.co.za Fri Aug 11 17:07:09 2000 From: lionelp at worldonline.co.za (Lionel Pinkhard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: 8086 Emulation Message-ID: Hey guys, Does somebody here know about a program I can use to emulate the original 8086-based computers? What I'm looking for is a program that can emulate (on either Dos, Windows or Linux): - The Intel 8086 processor - 640KB RAM - 360KB Floppy drive - Small hard drive (optional) - CGA graphics card Emulation of the IBM ROM BASIC, and IBM ROM BIOS, is also greatly desired, although, I am not sure whether these can be legally copied :-). Emulation of the IBM PC-DOS would also be helpful, but, yet again, I think this would result in copyright violation. I am pretty sure that emulating the CGA graphics card, a hard drive, a floppy drive or memory should not be a problem. Although, I'm not THAT sure about Intel's processor, but I think on Intel-based systems, this would only mean disabling certain newer instructions on the 80486/Pentium/whatever. Can somebody help me out here? Also, if there isn't something like this, how much trouble would it be to write one myself? Ciao, Lionel From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Aug 14 06:35:02 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 Message-ID: <00Aug14.123504bst.46096@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> The specific one for the c and c+ was the cute little 12" one wasn't it? Came with a funky stand to hover it over the machine. I'll get one eventually; I've always been surprised where most of my Apple stuff comes from! > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Hildebrand [mailto:ghldbrd@ccp.com] > Sent: 10 August 2000 20:41 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 > > > Hello Adrian > > On 10-Aug-00, you wrote: > > > Mike typed thusly: > > > >> There was > >> also a Apple Color RGB monitor that worked specifically with > >> the Apple IIgs and I think the IIc/c+. > > > > Ta for that - I need to find one of those for the museum > then :) It just > > looks like a Mac monitor in some of the ][GS pix I've seen. > > I got the official apple monitor with my IIc+, and it is > composite vidoe > only . . . > > Regards > -- > Gary Hildebrand > Box 6184 > St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 > > 816-662-2612 > or > > ghldbrd@ccp.com > From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Aug 14 06:42:03 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 Message-ID: <00Aug14.124208bst.46096@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Smart. And $48 doesn't seem like a bad price for that amount of kit! > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Ford [mailto:mikeford@socal.rr.com] > Sent: 10 August 2000 20:49 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: Apple IIc+ boot disk for DOS3.3 > > > >> also a Apple Color RGB monitor that worked specifically with > >> the Apple IIgs and I think the IIc/c+. > > > >Ta for that - I need to find one of those for the museum > then :) It just > >looks like a Mac monitor in some of the ][GS pix I've seen. > > Here is an ad with pics and a model number, note there may be > more than one > model number of IIgs compatible color monitor. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=399648903 > > From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Aug 14 06:59:03 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Weekend Finds Message-ID: <00Aug14.125942bst.46096@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> I had an absolute blinder of a weekend. Total finds from one market and one boot sale were: Boxed BBC Master 128 Boxed Grandstand 3600 pong Boxed Spectrum +2A (not a Currys or Dixons pack) Boxed Acetronic MPU1000 pong with mint quality boxed games Boxed Amstrad 6128+ with boxed monitor Commodore 128 Part boxed Dragon32 (handy, I'd just found a PSU the day before :) and the jewel in the pile Unused boxed Commodore P500 with manual and video lead. It's still in its Commodore bag, although one of the polys has had some damage. I'm quite chuffed with that to say the least, particularly since the serial number is only #00161! Last weekend I got my paws on: Grandstand-badged Fairchild Channel F II Boxed Grandstand 5000 pong Boxed almost unused Grandstand SD070 pong Unopened Colecovision Expansion #1 Boxed Astro Wars tabletop 2 Boxed Atari 2600s with a stack of carts Half a dozen Vic-20 carts a Super Famicom clone called the Micro Genius IQ501 and a battered Issue 2 Spectrum in a DK'Tronics keyboard enclosure. Pix are on http://www.binarydinosaurs.co.uk as always, although yesterday's stuff won't be uploaded till tonight. a From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Aug 14 07:31:06 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: 8086 Emulation In-Reply-To: (message from Lionel Pinkhard on Fri, 11 Aug 2000 22:07:09 +0000 (UTC)) References: Message-ID: <20000814123106.28561.qmail@brouhaha.com> Lionel Pinkhard wrote: > Does somebody here know about a program I can use to emulate the original > 8086-based computers? What I'm looking for is a program that can emulate > (on either Dos, Windows or Linux): > > - The Intel 8086 processor > - 640KB RAM > - 360KB Floppy drive > - Small hard drive (optional) > - CGA graphics card > > Emulation of the IBM ROM BASIC, and IBM ROM BIOS, is also greatly desired, > although, I am not sure whether these can be legally copied :-). Emulation If you simulate to the processor level, you don't need to simulate the ROM BIOS and BASIC. You just run the real ones on the processor simulation. Anyhow, I think M.E.S.S. does what you want: http://mess.emuverse.com/ From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 14 08:19:58 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Classicmag.net In-Reply-To: <000701c00527$d03d0fe0$3b68e540@dads> References: <20000811163537.F19607@electron.quantum.int> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000814080925.02961720@pc> Another possibility is that some authors and small-time publishers might have backups of the original files used to create the magazine. Back in the late 80s, I was tech editor for Amazing Computing, an Amiga publication. I was a frequent contributor to AmigaWorld, a columnist for Compute, and various other magazines (a handful of video magazines, Verbum, Byte, etc.) Given my pack rat genes, I think I have every article on disk. Perhaps other authors are the same way. Entire books could be rescued this way. On the other hand, an author friend of mine who did a seminal book about programming the C-64 had written the book on his Atari, and eventually threw away the disks years after publication. Amazing's publisher, www.pimpub.com is supposedly still online but the web seems down right now but here's the reg info (http://206.117.147.98/getwho.cgi?dom=PIMPUB.COM). He used Macs and Quark, and might have original files, too. Of course, the reality for most magazines is that most ads are stripped in photographically, not electronically. - John From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Mon Aug 14 09:22:51 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Weekend Finds In-Reply-To: <00Aug14.125942bst.46096@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:59:03 +0100 Adrian Graham wrote: > I had an absolute blinder of a weekend. Total finds from one market and one > boot sale were: ...long list of fine old computers omitted... So what am I doing wrong? All I spotted at two boot sales and several charity shops were an Amstrad 9512 and a C64. I have to say, I didn't take either of them. Maybe I just need to get up earlier in the morning at weekends! Having said that I did find not one but two, leather-clad Trimphones in a charity shop. They're called Deltaphones: http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/plaza/ah91/photos.htm?delta.htm -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Mon Aug 14 09:34:33 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: R: Scanning old mags Message-ID: Fujitsu document scanner in Kansas City. I hava an old Fujitsu document scanner, it has an automatic document feeder (ADF) and will scan 22 pages per minute . It scans at 400 DPI with 256 gray scale levels. It's a M3096. It can scan up to 11" X 17". More info about it is at http://www.fcpa.com/support/su_support_frame.html I haven't got the correct interface for it. If someone wants to attempt to scan documents for archival with it I will loan it to them for some testing. If it works for this task maybe we can work out a trade. I may have a shot at 1-2 more of them if they are usable. Mike mmcfadden@cmh.edu From agraham at ccat.co.uk Mon Aug 14 10:03:01 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Weekend Finds Message-ID: <00Aug14.160304bst.46098@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> That was a rare couple of weekends, I have to say (*WOW*RARE*L@@K*SINCLAIR ERA* etc ;o) Normally all I'll see are C64s, Amigas, Speccies, Amstrads and the occasional Atari. It DOES help to have contacts running 2nd hand shops who get stuff for me though. > -----Original Message----- > From: John Honniball [mailto:John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk] > Sent: 14 August 2000 15:57 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: RE: Weekend Finds > > > > On Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:59:03 +0100 Adrian Graham > wrote: > > I had an absolute blinder of a weekend. Total finds from > one market and one > > boot sale were: > > ...long list of fine old computers omitted... > > So what am I doing wrong? All I spotted at two boot sales > and several charity shops were an Amstrad 9512 and a C64. > I have to say, I didn't take either of them. Maybe I just > need to get up earlier in the morning at weekends! > > Having said that I did find not one but two, leather-clad > Trimphones in a charity shop. They're called Deltaphones: > > http://ds.dial.pipex.com/town/plaza/ah91/photos.htm?delta.htm > > -- > John Honniball > Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk > University of the West of England > From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Aug 14 12:57:18 2000 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Yet more stuff. References: <020901c00275$195e1800$14711fd1@default> Message-ID: Grabbed an IBM PC-RT for $1. Misc. cables, an original Macintosh (128k) The Disney Sound System, a paralell port sound box disney made a LONG time ago, the speaker grille is in the shape of the mouse head :) I found A/UX on an FTP server in Russia, seeing as how I couldn't find ANYWHERE that would sell it. Now I can get the Workgroup Server 95 working... Happy hunting! From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Aug 14 12:01:03 2000 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Compaq 'Suitcases' need a home. In-Reply-To: <20000814123106.28561.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: Anyone wanna offer a home to a set of Compaq portable (suitcase looking) computers? Have five of them (or was it six...) whch covers pretty much the line with a spare or two (Compaq, Compaq Plus, Compaq 286) They are untested, decent condition, have some extra boards... Can be had for cost of shipping (or less if you pick up ). New home, eBay fodder, or (eek?!?) dumpster bait! YOU be the judge!! -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org || jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Mon Aug 14 12:17:38 2000 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Classicmag.net Message-ID: <8025693B.005EE2BB.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Jim Oaks wrote: > Hello everyone, id like to announce a new project im starting, The > ClassicMag project. The goal of this project is to preserve classic > computing and gaming magazines for extinction. Most of us classic collectors > love to have magazines for the systems we collect as, in the past the > provided an immense resource for reviews, news, insights and programs. The > goal of this project will be to preserve old out of print magazine issues in > a PDF format. These will be scanned complete issues with advertisements let Worthwhile project! I have several boxes of mags lying around at home. At present I have no access to a scanner, but I'll send them to you if you want the task. Off the top of my head: Microcomputer Printout, 1980 until bought by Computnig Toady (as they had previously called it!) PC Magazine - about three years in the mid '80s Computer and Video Games - The year I won a free subscription. Probably 1988+/-1 Some Acorn specific ones that I haven't sorted. Let me know if you're interested, and I can see exactly what I have. > in, as they are as interesting and have just as much nostalgia value. Our I agree totally. Unfortunately you lose this if you get electronic copies of articles from contributors, as someone suggested. > web site is currently up at http://www.classicmag.net there's not a lot I'm still getting Hostname Unknown, I'm afraid. I'll try again another day... > small list of magazines on the site now for some different systems, if you > know of any I don't have listed please email with the details. I want this Are you grouping by system covered? Could be difficult - Microcomputer Printout started as PET only, and went through Commie only to practically everything in the space of a few years. > before 1995. I don't want to run into a lot of copyright issues. As always > if a mag is on our site and the publisher, if there still around, wishes it > not be there we will take it down, but hope they consider this project > worthwhile and let us keep them there. I really do think you ought to ask publishers' permission _first_. To say that you will remove anything on encountering objections is all very well, but probably won't satisfy the lawyers! Philip. ________________________ Disclaimer Notice ____________________________ This E-mail message is private and confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, reproduction, modification or publication of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. This message is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. This company therefore disclaims all responsibility and accepts no liability of any kind which may arise from any person acting, or refraining from acting, upon the contents of the message without having had subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this communication in error, or if any problems occur in transmission please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0)24 76 424000 From aw288 at osfn.org Mon Aug 14 12:27:09 2000 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: Classicmag.net In-Reply-To: <8025693B.005EE2BB.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: > Worthwhile project! I have several boxes of mags lying around at home. At > present I have no access to a scanner, but I'll send them to you if you want the > task. Off the top of my head: I hate to burst anyone's bubble with this project, but most of these magazines are already being archived by probably more than 100 of the large libraries (in large citys and universities) scattered around the country. You might want to check with some of them first before undertaking such a huge project - you may be reinventing the wheel. Some of the fairly obscure ones might be worth doing, as well as some that are company specific (such as the ones DEC or IBM put out). William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 14 12:23:39 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:49 2005 Subject: [OT] Power and NIC questions In-Reply-To: <001401c00591$69c9bf00$0500c0a8@winbook> from "Richard Erlacher" at Aug 13, 0 07:46:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1203 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000814/2e12928d/attachment.ksh From richard at idcomm.com Mon Aug 14 14:21:44 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: [OT] Power and NIC questions References: Message-ID: <002101c00624$e39424e0$0500c0a8@winbook> I agree completely. It's funny how often we see this sort of thing done, though inadvertently. The argument I frequently hear is, "well, I hook up the 5-volt supply to my welder (at 5 volts, of course) and it won't hurt what is supposed to operate at 5 volts . . . Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Duell To: Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 11:23 AM Subject: Re: [OT] Power and NIC questions > I would never recomend passing a high current through a possible short to > clear it. You might well do a lot more damage, especially if the short is > not the 'weak link'... > > Similarly the old electrician's 'trick' of shorting out a blown fuse and > seeing what smokes is a very bad idea. That which smokes is most probably > not the original cause of the problem, but it is now damaged and will > need to be replaced, along with the (still unknown) original defective part. > > -tony > > From sring at uslink.net Mon Aug 14 15:16:06 2000 From: sring at uslink.net (Stephanie Ring) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Compaq 'Suitcases' need a home. References: Message-ID: <001a01c0062c$7ce6c4c0$8a57ddcc@uslink.net> I would like all or some of the Compaqs. From: "Stephanie Ring" sring@uslink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: James Willing To: Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 12:01 PM Subject: Compaq 'Suitcases' need a home. > Anyone wanna offer a home to a set of Compaq portable (suitcase looking) > computers? Have five of them (or was it six...) whch covers pretty much > the line with a spare or two (Compaq, Compaq Plus, Compaq 286) > > They are untested, decent condition, have some extra boards... Can be had > for cost of shipping (or less if you pick up ). > > New home, eBay fodder, or (eek?!?) dumpster bait! YOU be the judge!! > > -jim > --- > jimw@computergarage.org || jimw@agora.rdrop.com > The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Aug 14 15:50:24 2000 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Ok, your REALLY odd question for the day! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Marginally (classic) computer related... (no details will be posted... just have to go with me on this one) Anyone on the list: Located in the Sacramento, California area... A licensed general &/or demolition contractor... Available this coming Thursday/Friday... Want to make a few $$ on an off-the-wall adventure... (it entails removal of some equipment) If you fit the profile, please reply off-list for specifics and details... If you are the 'lucky' player selected, you can detail the escapade here afterwards... B^} Thanks; -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org || jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From peter at joules.org Mon Aug 14 17:23:23 2000 From: peter at joules.org (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: [OT] Power and NIC questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > >Similarly the old electrician's 'trick' of shorting out a blown fuse and >seeing what smokes is a very bad idea. I remember, about 30 years ago, we had a fuse which kept blowing and couldn't find the cause. The electrician turned up and put a nail in the fuse, switched the power on - flash, BANG - he smiled and said "if in doubt short it out :)". It looked a bit dicy to me. -- Regards Pete From peter at joules.org Mon Aug 14 17:13:08 2000 From: peter at joules.org (Pete Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Compaq 'Suitcases' need a home. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >Anyone wanna offer a home to a set of Compaq portable (suitcase looking) >computers? Have five of them (or was it six...) whch covers pretty much >the line with a spare or two (Compaq, Compaq Plus, Compaq 286) > >They are untested, decent condition, have some extra boards... Can be had >for cost of shipping (or less if you pick up ). > >New home, eBay fodder, or (eek?!?) dumpster bait! YOU be the judge!! > I wish I was in the USA :-( -- Regards Pete From manney at hmcltd.net Mon Aug 14 18:59:32 2000 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Adam Osborne References: <3995ABFC.27921.99776D9@localhost> Message-ID: <002401c0064b$b1f34d40$42e3cfd8@pavilion> I've been offered an Adam complete with manuals, etc. Fairly decent condition, as far as I can tell. The seller knows nothing about it, and is willing to part with it at any price (even free). I wouldn't want to cheat him, though. What would be a fair price to offer? Thanks P Manney From paulrsm at ameritech.net Mon Aug 14 19:06:36 2000 From: paulrsm at ameritech.net (Paul R. Santa-Maria) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Classicmag.net Message-ID: <20000815001615.ORFO27294.mailhost.kal.ameritech.net@paulrsm> > I hate to burst anyone's bubble with this project, but most of these > magazines are already being archived by probably more than 100 of the > large libraries (in large citys and universities) scattered around the > country. You might want to check with some of them first before > undertaking such a huge project - you may be reinventing the wheel. I've always wanted to get some of those magazines on microfiche from UMI (University Microfilms Incorporated?), the folks who supply a lot of the microfiche and microfilm archives to libraries. Paul R. Santa-Maria Ann Arbor, Michigan USA paulrsm@ameritech.net From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Aug 15 03:56:48 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Adam Osborne In-Reply-To: <002401c0064b$b1f34d40$42e3cfd8@pavilion> Message-ID: Hello PG On 14-Aug-00, you wrote: > I've been offered an Adam complete with manuals, etc. Fairly decent > condition, as far as I can tell. > > The seller knows nothing about it, and is willing to part with it at any > price (even free). I wouldn't want to cheat him, though. What would be a > fair price to offer? > > Thanks > P Manney Well it is a Coleco Adam . . . . and if it has a flopy drive and the printer then it migh be worth a few bucks -- if not it really isn't worth anything except as a paperweight. The data tapes have to be pre-formatted, and I don't know if that is possible on the bare Adam. FWIW, Adam Osborne was the guy who did the Osborne 1 and the Exec, two early luggables. Now they are useable after a fashion, as they are cp/m machines. > > > Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From frustum at pacbell.net Mon Aug 14 23:51:44 2000 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000725133739.009151d0@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000814213130.00aec100@pacbell.net> I rarely look at auctions.yahoo.com for vintage computers because the selection is poor, the categories are filled with spam auctions, items are poorly described and typically have no photo, and the asking price is too high. Well, on a whim, I checked it out recently, and there was an Exidy Sorcerer for auction. The Sorcerer is near the top of my lust list. So, I watched patiently for 8 days while the auction crept up the list. On the final day, it went from its $50 asking price to $205. I won the bid. It was, by far, the most expensive thing I've bought on auction (my normal limit is $30). Still, I was happy with the situation as very few show up on ebay. The seller was about 90 minutes away, and I proposed that I pick up the item and I could give him payment in person. He convinced me that it really wasn't necessary, he'd pack it well, etc. Then he said, "do you know much about this computer? it seems a little odd. I don't see where the power goes. Maybe it is a prototype or something." It sounded a little fishy to me, but the seller really didn't seem to know much about computers. So I sent my $217 (bid plus shipping), and about a week later, the box showed up. I opened up the box, and there was the Sorcerer. Cosmetically it appeared to be in good shape. It had nice heft. But the alarm bells started going off. Not only was there no power, there were NO CONNECTORS of any kind. All the holes were covered (from the inside) with black cardboard. The case had some "bonus" venting holes with black screen mesh, which didn't allow any airflow, and appeared to be there only for effect. With a sinking stomach, I unscrewed the case to find inside... a sheet of 1/2" plywood screwed to the bottom, with no main board. I'm guessing somebody "tricked out" the case and was using it simply as a keyboard to some other project they had. I emailed back to the seller, and his position was more or less that he had told me about the lack of connectors (the power, at least). So, in an attempt to make a bit of lemonade from my lemon, does anybody have a Sorcerer with a broken keyboard that could use a replacement? Does anybody have a working Sorcerer that they'd be willing to trade for a working Sol AND a working OSI C1P (w/docs)? or any of the other machines located here: http://www.thebattles.net/jimsmachines.html ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From foo at siconic.com Mon Aug 14 23:01:24 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Adam Osborne In-Reply-To: <002401c0064b$b1f34d40$42e3cfd8@pavilion> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, PG Manney wrote: > I've been offered an Adam complete with manuals, etc. Fairly decent > condition, as far as I can tell. > > The seller knows nothing about it, and is willing to part with it at any > price (even free). I wouldn't want to cheat him, though. What would be a > fair price to offer? $25 tops. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 15 00:05:40 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000814213130.00aec100@pacbell.net> from "Jim Battle" at Aug 14, 2000 09:51:44 PM Message-ID: <200008150505.XAA09817@calico.litterbox.com> > With a sinking stomach, I unscrewed the case to find inside... > a sheet of 1/2" plywood screwed to the bottom, with no main board. I would say talk to this guy again, and threaten to charge him with mail fraud. He shipped you this thing as a computer, not a keyboard. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From marvin at rain.org Tue Aug 15 00:25:08 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] References: <4.3.2.7.0.20000814213130.00aec100@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <3998D434.2438D47C@rain.org> Jim Battle wrote: > > With a sinking stomach, I unscrewed the case to find inside... > a sheet of 1/2" plywood screwed to the bottom, with no main board. > > I'm guessing somebody "tricked out" the case and was using it > simply as a keyboard to some other project they had. > > I emailed back to the seller, and his position was more or less that > he had told me about the lack of connectors (the power, at least). This sounds like a good candidate for the Ebay Insurance program. Missing connectors is not quite the same as a missing mainboard. It doesn't sound like intentional fraud, but I would most certainly follow up with Ebay. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Aug 15 01:00:59 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: <3998D434.2438D47C@rain.org> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20000814213130.00aec100@pacbell.net> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000814225803.00c6f8b0@208.226.86.10> Except that it wasn't ebay, it was Yahoo. Nope, this is fraud plain and simple. What was sold was an electronic "prop" used in furniture stores to highlight how a piece of furniture might look at home. I've seen a variety of things from color TVs to Amiga's done up this way. Usually on the bottom is the sticker from the company (Proptronics usually, but there are others) that created it. Some of their more interesting ones are color TVs with a color picture in the "tube" and a light bulb behind it. The boring ones are all cardboard. If I were you I'd contact the seller and ask for a refund. --Chuck At 10:25 PM 8/14/00 -0700, you wrote: >Jim Battle wrote: > > > > With a sinking stomach, I unscrewed the case to find inside... > > a sheet of 1/2" plywood screwed to the bottom, with no main board. > > > > I'm guessing somebody "tricked out" the case and was using it > > simply as a keyboard to some other project they had. > > > > I emailed back to the seller, and his position was more or less that > > he had told me about the lack of connectors (the power, at least). > >This sounds like a good candidate for the Ebay Insurance program. Missing >connectors is not quite the same as a missing mainboard. It doesn't sound >like intentional fraud, but I would most certainly follow up with Ebay. From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 15 02:07:39 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000814225803.00c6f8b0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > Except that it wasn't ebay, it was Yahoo. > > Nope, this is fraud plain and simple. What was sold was an electronic > "prop" used in furniture stores to highlight how a piece of furniture might > look at home. I've seen a variety of things from color TVs to Amiga's done > up this way. Usually on the bottom is the sticker from the company > (Proptronics usually, but there are others) that created it. Some of their > more interesting ones are color TVs with a color picture in the "tube" and > a light bulb behind it. The boring ones are all cardboard. > > If I were you I'd contact the seller and ask for a refund. I agree with Chuck here. You were out & out defrauded. Luckily for you, you're within beating distance of this guy. Ideally you're in the same county, and you can threaten him with a complaint to the District Attorney (in the States, he's the top prosecutor for the county one lives in...you don't generally have THE D.A. prosecute your case (unless he/she wants to set an example with your case) but your complaint is referred to the D.A.'s office for follow-up by one of the prosecutors there...anyway, enough of American Gubment 101). If he refuses to follow through with the refund, file the complaint. As Chuck suggests, you can also file a claim with the Post Office which will follow up on this. Jim, don't settle for anything less here. You were defrauded by this person, whether it was intentional on his part or not. $200+ is way too much money to be spent on a piece of plywood. Get your money back. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From pdp-11 at swbell.net Tue Aug 15 03:41:10 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Recomended Reading Message-ID: <006001c00694$99b6e2c0$8f703ed8@compaq> Hello all. I just got a wonderful book, that anyone who is interested in Apple machines should look at. It's called Apple Design (ISBN 1-888001-25-9), and it has some great pictures and information about Apple products. It especially has lots of pictures of Apple prototypes that never made it (Jonathan, Apple IISI, Snow White Project...). It talks about Apple's beginnings, and I have found it really interesting. Those guys had some really weird ideas of what a Mac should look like. Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000815/1c316968/attachment.html From pdp-11 at swbell.net Tue Aug 15 03:45:53 2000 From: pdp-11 at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: New Finds Brings New Needs... Message-ID: <006701c00695$39716380$8f703ed8@compaq> I had a phenomenal day at Goodwill today. I got a TRS-80 Model III with printer, TRS-80 Model 4P, HP Portable Plus, and a Commodore 128D. What I did not get but need is: A keyboard for the Commodore 128D A Power Supply For The HP Portable Plus A Boot Disk For The TRS-80 Model 4P Any help is appreciated. Thanks, Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000815/dc4e3f13/attachment.html From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Aug 15 05:03:32 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000814213130.00aec100@pacbell.net> References: <4.1.20000725133739.009151d0@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: >With a sinking stomach, I unscrewed the case to find inside... >a sheet of 1/2" plywood screwed to the bottom, with no main board. >I emailed back to the seller, and his position was more or less that >he had told me about the lack of connectors (the power, at least). You aren't seriously going to let the seller get away with essentially shipping you an empty box for $207 are you? From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Aug 15 12:18:29 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Sellam On 15-Aug-00, you wrote: > On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > >> Except that it wasn't ebay, it was Yahoo. >> >> Nope, this is fraud plain and simple. What was sold was an electronic >> "prop" used in furniture stores to highlight how a piece of furniture might >> look at home. I've seen a variety of things from color TVs to Amiga's done >> up this way. Usually on the bottom is the sticker from the company >> (Proptronics usually, but there are others) that created it. Some of their >> more interesting ones are color TVs with a color picture in the "tube" and >> a light bulb behind it. The boring ones are all cardboard. >> >> If I were you I'd contact the seller and ask for a refund. > > I agree with Chuck here. You were out & out defrauded. Luckily for you, > you're within beating distance of this guy. Ideally you're in the same > county, and you can threaten him with a complaint to the District Attorney > (in the States, he's the top prosecutor for the county one lives in...you > don't generally have THE D.A. prosecute your case (unless he/she wants to > set an example with your case) but your complaint is referred to the > D.A.'s office for follow-up by one of the prosecutors there...anyway, > enough of American Gubment 101). > > If he refuses to follow through with the refund, file the complaint. As > Chuck suggests, you can also file a claim with the Post Office which will > follow up on this. > > Jim, don't settle for anything less here. You were defrauded by this > person, whether it was intentional on his part or not. $200+ is way too > much money to be spent on a piece of plywood. Get your money back. Yes that is a bit much for plywood, unless you're getting it at a home improvement warehouse . . . . Caveat Emptor . . . . I prefer seeing the item before buying it, so I limit my activities to hamfest and somputer swap meets. And then I assume all items non-working unless proven otherwise. Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Tue Aug 15 06:32:04 2000 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] Message-ID: <8025693C.003F9BB2.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Sellam, quoting Chuck: >> Nope, this is fraud plain and simple. What was sold was an electronic >> "prop" used in furniture stores to highlight how a piece of furniture might >> look at home. I've seen a variety of things from color TVs to Amiga's done >> up this way. Usually on the bottom is the sticker from the company >> (Proptronics usually, but there are others) that created it. Some of their >> more interesting ones are color TVs with a color picture in the "tube" and >> a light bulb behind it. The boring ones are all cardboard. >> >> If I were you I'd contact the seller and ask for a refund. > > I agree with Chuck here. You were out & out defrauded. Luckily for you, > you're within beating distance of this guy. Ideally you're in the same > county, and you can threaten him with a complaint to the District Attorney > (in the States, he's the top prosecutor for the county one lives in...you > don't generally have THE D.A. prosecute your case (unless he/she wants to > set an example with your case) but your complaint is referred to the > D.A.'s office for follow-up by one of the prosecutors there...anyway, > enough of American Gubment 101). > > If he refuses to follow through with the refund, file the complaint. As > Chuck suggests, you can also file a claim with the Post Office which will > follow up on this. > > Jim, don't settle for anything less here. You were defrauded by this > person, whether it was intentional on his part or not. $200+ is way too > much money to be spent on a piece of plywood. Get your money back. Hang on. In principle I agree with Chuck and Sam, but you can cause a lot of trouble by using the wrong words. To start with, DON'T accuse this guy of fraud until you have had at least two more goes at getting your money back! I am not a lawyer, and certainly not an American lawyer, but I claim you have missed the difference between FRAUD and MISREPRESENTATION. What you have here is misrepresentation - the seller has claimed the item is a computer, when it actually isn't. English law makes a distinction between the civil offence "Innocent misrepresentation" - the seller genuinely did not intend to sell you a dud - and the criminal offence "Fraudulent misrepresentation" - the seller actually intended to defraud you. (A lot of English law depends on intent - very hard to prove, but...) In a case of innocent misrepresentation, the sale is voidable - you can sue for your money back, and you have to return the goods essentially undamaged (excepting cases like a machine that died when you tried to use it because it was misrepresented as being suitable for the job). In a case of fraudulent misrepresentation, the penalties can be higher - including consequential losses - and I think the seller can even go to jail. I can see that you're going to be annoyed paying $200 for a box with no circuitry in it. But don't start accusing people of crimes like fraud until you have exhausted other avenues... I suggest you find out what the American equivalent of innocent misrepresentation is called, and accuse him of that - privately first, and then backed by lawyers and the courts. Again, in the UK a matter of $200 (plus costs of course) would be the province of the Small Claims Court, but I don't know how it works in the US. Have fun :-( Philip. ________________________ Disclaimer Notice ____________________________ This E-mail message is private and confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, reproduction, modification or publication of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. This message is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. This company therefore disclaims all responsibility and accepts no liability of any kind which may arise from any person acting, or refraining from acting, upon the contents of the message without having had subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this communication in error, or if any problems occur in transmission please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0)24 76 424000 From at258 at osfn.org Tue Aug 15 07:10:34 2000 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: <200008150505.XAA09817@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: Yes, don't lety this get by. This is a scam. Complain to E-bay, and make noises about computer fraud, police involvement, etc. He only started telling you about condition just before the auction ended, and never seems to have made a clear statement of its condition. He owes you big time. On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Jim Strickland wrote: > > With a sinking stomach, I unscrewed the case to find inside... > > a sheet of 1/2" plywood screwed to the bottom, with no main board. > > I would say talk to this guy again, and threaten to charge him with mail > fraud. He shipped you this thing as a computer, not a keyboard. > > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From anmu at mm-lab.uni-tuebingen.de Tue Aug 15 07:38:22 2000 From: anmu at mm-lab.uni-tuebingen.de (anmu@mm-lab.uni-tuebingen.de) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: pdp-11/24 backplane unique ? Message-ID: <200008151238.OAA11214@audio1.mm-lab.uni-tuebingen.de> hello ! I got two pdp-11/24, one for 110 Volts and one for 220 Volts circuits. I live in an area with 220V circuits, so it would be much easier for me to use the one driven by 220V. unfortunately all the interesting cards are in the 110V version. now my question is: can I exchange any card between the two pdps or do I also have to exchange the backplanes ? thanks for help, Andreas -- ********************************************************* * Andreas Mueller * * * * Multi-Media-Labor || Uni-Tuebingen * * phone: +49 7071-2978567 or +49 7071-2977821 * ********************************************************* From lionelp at worldonline.co.za Mon Aug 14 14:08:27 2000 From: lionelp at worldonline.co.za (Lionel Pinkhard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Compaq 'Suitcases' need a home. In-Reply-To: <001a01c0062c$7ce6c4c0$8a57ddcc@uslink.net> Message-ID: Ditto. On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Stephanie Ring wrote: > I would like all or some of the Compaqs. > > > From: "Stephanie Ring" > sring@uslink.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: James Willing > To: > Sent: Monday, August 14, 2000 12:01 PM > Subject: Compaq 'Suitcases' need a home. > > > > Anyone wanna offer a home to a set of Compaq portable (suitcase looking) > > computers? Have five of them (or was it six...) whch covers pretty much > > the line with a spare or two (Compaq, Compaq Plus, Compaq 286) > > > > They are untested, decent condition, have some extra boards... Can be had > > for cost of shipping (or less if you pick up ). > > > > New home, eBay fodder, or (eek?!?) dumpster bait! YOU be the judge!! > > > > -jim > > --- > > jimw@computergarage.org || jimw@agora.rdrop.com > > The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org > > Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 > > > From transit at lerctr.org Tue Aug 15 10:50:48 2000 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Adam Osborne In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 14 Aug 2000, PG Manney wrote: > > > I've been offered an Adam complete with manuals, etc. Fairly decent > > condition, as far as I can tell. > > > > The seller knows nothing about it, and is willing to part with it at any > > price (even free). I wouldn't want to cheat him, though. What would be a > > fair price to offer? > > $25 tops. Maybe more like $10 tested and working, $5 otherwise... From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 15 10:56:46 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: <8025693C.003F9BB2.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > English law makes a distinction between the civil offence "Innocent > misrepresentation" - the seller genuinely did not intend to sell you a > dud - and the criminal offence "Fraudulent misrepresentation" - the > seller actually intended to defraud you. (A lot of English law > depends on intent - very hard to prove, but...) These matters are pretty black & white in the U.S. Either it's fraud or not, and if so, we execute you :) Seriously though, you make a reasonable point. > I suggest you find out what the American equivalent of innocent > misrepresentation is called, and accuse him of that - privately first, > and then backed by lawyers and the courts. Again, in the UK a matter > of $200 (plus costs of course) would be the province of the Small > Claims Court, but I don't know how it works in the US. It may very well be that if he does report this to the District Attorney that the D.A. will simply refer him to the Small Claims court (I think the maximum claim heard in Small Claims in the U.S. is $5,000?) However, I think the US Post Office might be more inclined to investigate it. However, I think what's more important here is the threat of taking these actions. The seller will hopefully realize that Jim genuinely feels he's been defrauded/misrepresented and might volunteer to repay the money rather than go through all the hassle. What would help, Jim, is if you do your research with regards to the law in advance of talking to the seller again. Maybe call the D.A. and see what they say about the incident. Or call the PO if the D.A. does not have jurisdiction and see what they say. Armed with this knowledge, you can very precisely explain to the seller what will happen if he refuses to refund your money. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Aug 15 12:26:45 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: References: <8025693C.003F9BB2.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000815102147.00d393e0@208.226.86.10> At 08:56 AM 8/15/00 -0700, Sellam wrote: >However, I think what's more important here is the threat of taking these >actions. The seller will hopefully realize that Jim genuinely feels he's >been defrauded/misrepresented and might volunteer to repay the money >rather than go through all the hassle. This is always the key point. Talk to the seller and explain that what he sold you was not a computer, it was a prop. And therefore you don't think it is worth $200+. If the seller has *any* integrity at all, he will immediately offer to refund your money. If he doesn't then that is clue #1. If you are at step 2 (he hasn't offered yet) and you tell him that you believe he misrepresented the goods and you would like your money back. (except postage of course, he is really out the cost of postage) and he refuses _again_, then you are probably ok in suspecting he knew all along that it wasn't a computer. Now, you need to talk about suing him for the $205 + expenses to collect it. --Chuck From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Aug 15 12:24:12 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Two TI Silent 700s needing a home Message-ID: <20000815122412.M27443@mrbill.net> I've still got two TI Silent 700s (one model 765 with the 80K bubble memory add-on, one plain model 745; pics of the 765 at http://www.decvax.org/ti/) that need a good home... anybody wanna swap something for them that will make em worth packing up and shipping? Also, dunno if it meets the 10 year rule, but I've got a HP 9000 715/33 here that I cant even *give* away; anybody need one? Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 15 12:39:40 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] Message-ID: I'd say its a bit suspect that someone 90 minutes away would insist on shipping the thing.. as if they didn't want you to discover the fact that it had no mainboard and be able to personally confront them about it... Just my 2 cents... Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From gregorym at cadvision.com Tue Aug 15 12:51:45 2000 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Dealing with bad traders/vendors. [WAS: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer]] References: <8025693C.003F9BB2.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> <4.3.2.7.2.20000815102147.00d393e0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <01bf01c006e1$7a863d40$0200a8c0@marvin> Sorry to hear about the original auction problem. Good luck getting a refund. That said, I'd like to offer some suggestions from personal experience to make online trading/buying less painful: - whenever possible, inspect the goods before buying. If too far away, ask for pictures (download them as insurance). If neither of these is possible, ask for a detailed description before buying. This will provide grounds for a complaint if the item doesn't match the description. - always keep all correspondence until a deal is completed to everyone's satisfaction. A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on. You need a paper (or e-mail) trail. - insist on getting a real world address and phone number from all sellers. Check that the phone number works. P.O. boxes make it too easy for unscrupulous sellers to disappear. - ask for references where feasible. If none are available, do a quick search on Dejanews to make sure the seller isn't a known bad trader. - if you have a problem, be polite with the seller, at least at first. Remember you want something from them. No one responds well to an email like "Where's my f**cking stuff, you rotten b**tard?". - Provide full details of the problem in every communication, and explain what you want from the seller. E.g. "I'm writing about eBay auction ######. You cashed my money order on the 7th, and you promised shipping within a week. It's now the 24th, and I haven't received anything. Could you please give me the the details of how the package was shipped, and when it was sent". - detail the resolution you want. "I will ship the item back to you at my expense, as soon as you return my money order to me." - if you get the runaround, or no response, keep trying, with measured escalation that shows you want to resolve things amicably. E.g. "Unless I receive proof of shipment by August 24, I will have to post negative feedback on eBay, and contact Visa to have my payment reversed. I would prefer to avoid that. Please send the shipment tracking number to ..." - To complain, use the easiest mechanisms first. If using an online auction house, use the complaint service provided, like SafeHarbor on eBay. If shipping was by mail, complain to the Post Office. If none of these works, turn to the courts, if feasible. Just my 2 cents. Mark. From gaz_k at lineone.net Mon Aug 14 16:06:06 2000 From: gaz_k at lineone.net (Gareth Knight) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Classicmag.net References: Message-ID: <000001c006e5$ac9e3220$961a063e@gazk> William Donzelli wrote: > I hate to burst anyone's bubble with this project, but most of these > magazines are already being archived by probably more than 100 of the > large libraries (in large citys and universities) scattered around the > country. You might want to check with some of them first before > undertaking such a huge project - you may be reinventing the wheel. It depends upon the market that the magazine is aimed for. Most libraries and universities that I have tried have a sizeable collection of PC titles, but are lacking in their coverage for other titles. Games titles such as C&VG are rarely included, neither are ST, Amiga, Acorn, etc. I recommend having a look around the net to avoid duplication of effort. Amiga Magazines Claude Mueller's magazine site http://magazines.ch Amiga Interactive Guide: Magazine section (mine) http://amiga.emugaming.com/magazines.html AP2 - http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/ap2/ Commodore Magazines Iain Black's Zzap! 64 (and various other mags) site - http://www.zzap64.co.uk The Commodore WWW 8-Bit Server - http://www.hut.fi/Misc/cbm/ Atari Magazines Atari Historical Society - http://www.atari-history.com/ Little Green Desktop - http://www.fatal-design.com/desktop/ BBC Magazines Stairway to Hell - http://www.stairwaytohell.com There was also an obscure page on the Keele university web site a few months ago. It was brief, misinformed, but strangely interesting reading. Sinclair Spectrum Magazines Various sites that I can't remember the URLs for. Try a search for World of Spectrum, The YS Rock and Roll Years, YS2, Sinclair User, and Crash. The Speccy has hundreds of sites that cover YS, SU, and Crash. However, there is a notable absence of other 80s Spectrum titles (whose name I seem to have forgot). PhilipBelben wrote: > I'm still getting Hostname Unknown, I'm afraid. I'll try again another day... It works here. > Are you grouping by system covered? Could be difficult - Microcomputer Printout > started as PET only, and went through Commie only to practically everything in > the space of a few years. CU Amiga was even worse. It started as Vic Computing, evolved into a Commodore mag, and eventually became Amiga-specific. > > before 1995. I don't want to run into a lot of copyright issues. As always > > if a mag is on our site and the publisher, if there still around, wishes it > > not be there we will take it down, but hope they consider this project > > worthwhile and let us keep them there. I have some experience in this area and have discussed it with various people. Future Publishing and EMAP are tolerant, and in many cases flattered by tribute sites. As long as you do not abuse the name (ST Format Porn anyone?) or launch a magazine using that name you should be OK. You may find it difficult to find who owns the rights to the various magazines - Crash was incorporated into Emap's SU and Zzap! 64/Commodore Force was bought by Future Publishing after Impact magazines went bust. > I really do think you ought to ask publishers' permission _first_. To say that > you will remove anything on encountering objections is all very well, but > probably won't satisfy the lawyers! -- Gareth Knight Amiga Interactive Guide http://amiga.emugaming.com From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 15 13:23:51 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] References: Message-ID: <001301c006e5$f745d440$0500c0a8@winbook> Actually, the flag should have gone up when the guy insisted on shipping the thing, since shipping is such a hassle. What he obviously wanted to avoid wasn't the confrontation, but the potential for a refusal, since nobody would have bought the mockup for the $200+ price. I think this fellow has learned a basic lesson at considerable expense. Perhaps some of the rest of us can learn from this as well. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Will Jennings To: Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 11:39 AM Subject: Re: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] > I'd say its a bit suspect that someone 90 minutes away would insist on > shipping the thing.. as if they didn't want you to discover the fact that it > had no mainboard and be able to personally confront them about it... > > Just my 2 cents... > > Will J > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com Tue Aug 15 14:16:50 2000 From: rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: [gkm@blackdown.org: Last chance.] Message-ID: <20000815121650.G16015@electron.quantum.int> Last chance before all VAXen become classic.... :-) ----- Forwarded message from glen mccready ----- To: 0xdeadbeef@blackdown.org Subject: Last chance. Forwarded-by: Nev Dull Forwarded-by: Aharon Robbins From: Andreas Strahm Newsgroups: comp.os.vms Subject: Last order dates for VAX systems Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 09:51:29 +0200 Just for information: < Last order dates for VAX systems VAX 4000, MicroVAX 3100 - 88 and 3100-98 models VAX 4000, MicroVAX 3100-88, and MicroVAX 3100-98 systems and all associated options are being retired. Limited supply will be supported on a first come, first serve basis. Last order date: September 30, 2000 Last ship date: December 31, 2000 > Source: http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/vax/vax_dates.html Regards, Andreas Strahm, Software Engineer =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= http://www.openvms.digital.com/wizard/wiz_1378.html The last VAX microprocessor chips have been built. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ Get money for spare CPU cycles at http://www.ProcessTree.com/?sponsor=5903 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Aug 15 15:49:51 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: <001301c006e5$f745d440$0500c0a8@winbook> References: Message-ID: Since we are snooping so much on this, what was the auction ID, or maybe just post the auction listing ad. Looks like Yahoo doesn't let you search for completed auctions (ebay recently GREATLY restricted this to subject only and drops items after about 60 days). From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Tue Aug 15 14:56:11 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: [gkm@blackdown.org: Last chance.] In-Reply-To: <20000815121650.G16015@electron.quantum.int> Message-ID: <000f01c006f2$dd2362f0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> > Last chance before all VAXen become classic.... :-) Sad, of course, but... Are they putting them out at close-out prices? John A. From Mzthompson at aol.com Tue Aug 15 15:58:15 2000 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Last week's haul & some questions Message-ID: <2b.97b46eb.26cb08e7@aol.com> A few weeks ago I got a call from a company (I know a lot of the folks there) saying they wanted to get rid of the DEC library. That amounted to a carload of books and tapes. I asked if they were getting rid of the books, then what about the equipment. They said as soon as the paperwork comes through. Later I sent them an email asking that they not tear down the equipment, but rather let me know as soon as possible and I will tear it down and have it out of their way pronto. That way I could make notes as what goes with what. They agreed. When I went in to get the equipment last week, they had left the stuff intact and went even one better. They ran a printout of DEC stuff off their inventory database and handed that to me. They also took digital photos of the equipment showing all the cabling, printed those and handed them to me also. They also pulled all the boxes of DEC spares, cables, adapters, etc. and set them out for me. This beats dumpster diving to hell & back. Books - A complete set of Ultrix books & a few hardware manuals. When I picked up the equipment they allowed me to rummage through their library and snatch any DEC manuals they had overlooked earlier. DEC Eq. - Some 5000's (/133 & /200), a couple DS3100, 8 expansion boxes containing 9 RZ drives and 4 tape drives, and associated keyboards, mice and cables. Q: The 5000/133 has the space to mount a couple RX2x drives. Of course I need mounting brackets. I thought I would try to locate a couple before concocting my own. Anybody got a part number for that mounting bracket, or any clues as to where you can locate things like this? I can scrounge the equipment, but the piddly stuff like this and some cables are often harder to find. Non DEC - They decided to get rid of another box. It is a tape duplicator, and at first was skeptical of hauling home something that may prove more hassles than worth. After opening it up, I went tee-hee tee-hee. It is a tower case, only BIG. Has a 20 slot ISA-AT bus, one of those industrial strength jobs. In that is a 386/33 CPU board, a couple I/O boards and I believe multiple SCSI cards. There is a Seagate ST21400 hard drive in the bottom. Out front is the drive bays with room for 11 half height drives. Mounted there is two TZ30's, two 1/4" cartridge drives 525mb, and two drives which I think are 8mm, and 1 lowly 3.5 floppy. On the back are: 5 pin Din, 9 pin serial, and 15 pin video connector. With that I then realized this is nothing more than a big Intel box, probably loaded with MS-DOS, maybe Windows, and apparently the software needed to duplicate multiple tape formats. The latest date code I could find was '95. I have not fired it up yet, but this may prove to be a nice box to have around. The catch is no documentation. In fact I can not even find a model/serial no tag on it anywhere. All I know is that it was made by a outfit called Duplication Technology, located in Boulder. (1 hour later) Darn, I love this technology. A web search yield a phone no that led to a gal who knew the history of the original company, and who gave another phone no. That led to the engineer in another company who put this thing together. I gave him the name of the company (back when it was purchased) and he pulled it up on his database and rattled the specs. No model/serial because each was custom built for the customer. The two drives in question are indeed 8mm, but only support the 8200 format. Can anybody enlighten me on that, who used that format, etc. The kicker was that he offered me $75-100 ea for some of the drives. His stock to support legacy systems is dwindling. Mike From rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com Tue Aug 15 16:02:24 2000 From: rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: [gkm@blackdown.org: Last chance.] In-Reply-To: <000f01c006f2$dd2362f0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com>; from John Allain on Tue, Aug 15, 2000 at 03:56:11PM -0400 References: <20000815121650.G16015@electron.quantum.int> <000f01c006f2$dd2362f0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: <20000815140223.I16015@electron.quantum.int> On Tue, Aug 15, 2000 at 03:56:11PM -0400, John Allain wrote: > > > Last chance before all VAXen become classic.... :-) > > Sad, of course, but... > Are they putting them out at close-out prices? I didn't see any evidence of that. Maybe next year the extras will show up on some auction site or something. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ Get money for spare CPU cycles at http://www.ProcessTree.com/?sponsor=5903 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 15 13:10:38 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000814213130.00aec100@pacbell.net> from "Jim Battle" at Aug 14, 0 09:51:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3819 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000815/c11cd622/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 15 13:19:12 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: New Finds Brings New Needs... In-Reply-To: <006701c00695$39716380$8f703ed8@compaq> from "Owen Robertson" at Aug 15, 0 03:45:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1685 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000815/9c2433ab/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 15 13:31:35 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: pdp-11/24 backplane unique ? In-Reply-To: <200008151238.OAA11214@audio1.mm-lab.uni-tuebingen.de> from "anmu@mm-lab.uni-tuebingen.de" at Aug 15, 0 02:38:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 982 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000815/f7e1024c/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Aug 15 16:10:32 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: [gkm@blackdown.org: Last chance.] In-Reply-To: Re: [gkm@blackdown.org: Last chance.] (Shawn T. Rutledge) References: <20000815121650.G16015@electron.quantum.int> <000f01c006f2$dd2362f0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> <20000815140223.I16015@electron.quantum.int> Message-ID: <14745.45512.764281.421500@phaduka.neurotica.com> On August 15, Shawn T. Rutledge wrote: > > > Last chance before all VAXen become classic.... :-) > > > > Sad, of course, but... > > Are they putting them out at close-out prices? > > I didn't see any evidence of that. Maybe next year the extras will show > up on some auction site or something. So what *is* their current pricing? Yes, I'm too lazy to point my browser at their web server... ;-) -Dave McGuire From mcguire at neurotica.com Tue Aug 15 16:15:57 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Last week's haul & some questions In-Reply-To: Last week's haul & some questions (Mzthompson@aol.com) References: <2b.97b46eb.26cb08e7@aol.com> Message-ID: <14745.45837.394156.134256@phaduka.neurotica.com> On August 15, Mzthompson@aol.com wrote: > The two drives in question are indeed 8mm, but only support the 8200 > format. Can anybody enlighten me on that, who used that format, etc. That means "the format used by the Exabyte 8200 8mm drive". Lots of things used (and still use) those drives...just about every computer company in existence used Exabyte drives at one time or another over the past ten years. They're standard SCSI and fast enough to be quite useful...if you don't sell 'em to that guy, they're nice drives for running backups. 2.3gb per tape, and very well-understood by the world at large. I can't imagine that the other guy is having problems finding them, though...they're all over the place. -Dave McGuire From CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil Tue Aug 15 17:09:58 2000 From: CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: DEC TU-56 Restoration, (Yet another lost cause? :-) Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8E7C@NSWCDLVAEX04> I'm currently trying to revive a TU-56(dectape drive). Unfortunately, it came with a number of flipchip modules missing (the perils of shopping ebay :-( From what I've been able to determine, I need the following boards: flipchip #(quantity) G742 , G859, M941(2), M531, M040, G851, M117(2), M113(3), M302, M908(2), W032(2) M922(2), M923 I've been rummaging through the hamfests in the area, but so far no luck. If anyone has any spares available, please drop me an email note... I'm quite willing to try my hand at repairing blown modules (or fabricating missing ones, if at all feasible). I'm also going to need a Unibus interface. I'm not certain what the module number for the interface is (I've checked the Dec Module Handbook on Megan's site, but none of the descriptions for the tape controllers mentions TU-56). Anyone know which controllers/Module #'s will work with this drive? Also, the TU-56 manual I downloaded indicated that I might/might not need 5 G888 modules (Manchester Read/Write interfaces) depending on what the drive was connected to. Anyone know any more about this? I'm intending to use the drive on an 11/34a. -Thanks in advance to all! -al- -acorda@geocities.com From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Aug 15 17:21:27 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: IBM Series 1 manuals Message-ID: <200008152221.RAA20241@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > To the person with the > manuals, could you go through and post the model numbers for the > items that the manuals go with? Against all sane logic on my part, i've managed to grab most if not all the manuals that were in the hallway. I'm not sure what you mean by model numbers, as most of this stuff reads like greek ;) All manuals have a 4955 on the label outside the binders, is that what you mean? Or were you asking about every sub-manual in each binder? I have one large set (10+ binders), possibly incomplete, of 'board and card logics'. I have 3 copies of MLD, Logic, Volume 1. 3 copies of SYT, System Test, Volume 4 (though one appears to be an index different than the other 2 copies). I have 4 copies of TDM, Theory, Volume 5. And i have several copies of MLM, MAP/MIM, Volume 2. These are usually a 2 binder set, but there is a 3 bunder set, and some individual ones, so i'm confused for now. No time to read these over right now. I have at least 2 copies of Event Driven Executive, Operators Reference. One copy of Event Driven Executive, Messages and Codes. One copy of Event Driven Executive, System Guide. i have a few more manuals at home, so i may have more copies of these or other things. I have a package of 10 small brass jumpers, PN 4410751. Small stuff ============ General purpose Interface Bus (GPIB) adapter - RPQ D02118. custom feature. 4966 autoloader diskette storage unit IR functional unit and cause code guide 4966 diskette magazine unit parts catalog diskette magazine unit 4966 unit installation instructions 4979 display station parts catalog 4979 display station instalation instructions (and a plastic adjustment tool) 4962 disk storage unit partsw catalog (and a pack of 6 wire jumpers about 4 inches long, plus a package of 2 test wires i guess) 4974 printer parts catalog (plus package containing one small bolt, package containing one lock washer, package containing 4 long wire jumpers, package containing steel wool lined cable clamp) -Lawrence LeMay From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Aug 15 17:44:39 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: New Finds Today References: <022201bfc521$9b444b00$7d731fd1@default> <002901bfc5e1$23173460$75741918@fauradon> Message-ID: <018b01c0070a$65ffbc60$d0731fd1@default> Hello sorry for the long delays in messages but I'm going to St. Louis this weekend to visit and shop for computers. I would like to get together one night next week, maybe you could come out and see some of the collection ? I will contact on Monday as will get back late Sunday night. John Keys ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue and Francois" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 7:35 PM Subject: Re: New Finds Today > > battery seems to be dead. Anyone know anything about it. Also picked > > up a neat 3 foot robot for $1 here at a thrift store. No remote was with > > Off course now you realize that you can't hate me anymore, so whatdayasay we > do the diner thing? > > > it a and one cover plate is missing, have not tried to power it up yet. > > Keep computing > > John Keys > > > > Francois > > From CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil Tue Aug 15 18:01:32 2000 From: CordaAJ at nswc.navy.mil (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Computer Hardware Documentation Bidders Mailing List? Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8E7D@NSWCDLVAEX04> Over the past couple of months, I've been trying to accumulate some basic DEC documentation. There is quite a bit available on the web, but I've needed a number of manuals/schematics/etc. that I haven't been able to find, and as a result I've been forced to use E-pay more than I would have liked. I don't know how many of you out there have checked the DEC/PDP offerings on ebay, but there has been quite a lot offered recently in the way of documentation. Unfortunately, I find myself bidding against people who share my same interest, and it saddens me since I've always felt that documentation should be available for everyone who wants it (please, no flames! This is just a personal opinion) Documentation is unique in that, in many cases, a photocopy (or scanned image) in place of the actual document would be just as useful to me as the original since my interests lean towards restoring the hardware, rather than collecting the "original" documentation. I also see small manuals/schematic sets/etc. being broken up into indivudual items and going for what I believe is much more than they are worth (again, no flames!, this is just my opinion). It has occured to me that if a mailing list were set up where a person could post their intention of bidding on a specific piece of duplicatable documentation, then other potential bidders could contact the initial poster and work out a deal where they could "share" the cost of the initial poster's bid (plus copying charges), in return for not competing with the initial poster's bid.You may have noticed that I have avoided the problem of copyright infringement. I believe that with documentation of the vintage that I am refering to, such issues are probably moot, especially since In many cases the companies no longer exist. As far as the sellers on E-bay go, they have a significant advantage since their individual items remain on the block for days, rather than minutes as in a "real" auction. (but let's not turn this into yet another "is E-bay fair?" thread :-) Also, I wonder of some of the on-line "Computer Museums" might consider hosting an on-line documentation repository, where people could submit scanned schematics/manuals/etc. for (free) web-based access and archival purposes. It would be a tremendous service to our on-line community. Currently, this is being done by a number of very helpful individuals, but I would think that some of the "real" museum sites might be more capable of organizing such info and supporting the amount of storage needed. Again, I'm just throing these ideas out to see if anyone thinks they have any merit... -al- -acorda@geocities.com From manney at hmcltd.net Tue Aug 15 17:58:47 2000 From: manney at hmcltd.net (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:50 2005 Subject: Adam Osborne References: Message-ID: <007c01c0070d$68bd9c80$26e3cfd8@pavilion> Sorry to all who helped. Brain dead day... I really ment an Osborne Luggable, not a Coleco Adam. So... what's it worth? Thanks, P Manney What would be a > > fair price to offer? > > $25 tops. > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > > > From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Aug 15 18:15:14 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: VAX/VLC framebuffers? In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000803215216.00afeed0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: <20000815231017.GLEC26266.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@ci223229-a> You can 'do' a "Show Config" from the console command prompt (not while in VMS) to determine what type framebuffer you've got. In <4.3.1.2.20000803215216.00afeed0@208.226.86.10>, on 08/15/00 at 07:15 PM, Chuck McManis said: >So my new VLC has a different frame buffer (for some reason I thought >they were all the same). This one has a little switch on it and flat ram >chips (all the others have a row of soldered in SIPs for ram and no >switch. Anyone know what the difference is? Zane? >--Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 15 18:21:39 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: DEC TU-56 Restoration, (Yet another lost cause? :-) In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8E7C@NSWCDLVAEX04> (message from Corda Albert J DLVA on Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:09:58 -0400) References: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8E7C@NSWCDLVAEX04> Message-ID: <20000815232139.13780.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Also, the TU-56 manual I downloaded indicated that I might/might not > need 5 G888 modules (Manchester Read/Write interfaces) depending on > what the drive was connected to. Anyone know any more about this? > I'm intending to use the drive on an 11/34a. For use on a PDP-11, you'll need a TC11 control. The TC11 will contain five G888 modules, and you won't need any in the TU56. The only normal situation in which G888 modules should be installed in a TU56 is when the drive is used with a TD8-E "Simple DECtape Control" in an Omnibus PDP-8. From THETechnoid at home.com Tue Aug 15 18:25:54 2000 From: THETechnoid at home.com (THETechnoid@home.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Adam Osborne In-Reply-To: <007c01c0070d$68bd9c80$26e3cfd8@pavilion> Message-ID: <20000815232440.GSRP26266.mail.rdc1.tn.home.com@ci223229-a> That makes more sense. I also assume you mean an Osborn model 1. Adam Osborn was not involved in the Coleco Adam. I'd guess about $20.00 sans docs etc. A machine complete with docs and boots would be worth another $10.00 I guess. I think some of the others might disagree with my pricing, saying it is too high. You have to evaluate for yourself. The Osborne 1 is a 64k machine which runs a version of CP/M 2.2. It has a Z-80 processor at 4mhz and one or two floppy drives. Some may have an internal 300 baud modem which slid into a bay in the front. They are nice machines but have only a 52 column display due to the small, composite monitor. You can connect an external monitor to get a bigger display but it will also be 52 column. In <007c01c0070d$68bd9c80$26e3cfd8@pavilion>, on 08/15/00 at 07:25 PM, "PG Manney" said: >Sorry to all who helped. Brain dead day... I really ment an Osborne >Luggable, not a Coleco Adam. >So... what's it worth? >Thanks, >P Manney >What would be a >> > fair price to offer? >> >> $25 tops. >> >> Sellam International Man of Intrigue and >Danger >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- >> Looking for a six in a pile of nines... >> >> VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 >> San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California >> See http://www.vintage.org for details! >> >> >> >> -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley President Complete Computer Services, Inc. 30 Greenwood Rd. Asheville, NC 28803 828-277-5959 THETechnoid@home.com ----------------------------------------------------------- From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Aug 15 18:46:20 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: IBM Series 1 manuals In-Reply-To: <200008152221.RAA20241@caesar.cs.umn.edu> from Lawrence LeMay at "Aug 15, 2000 05:21:27 pm" Message-ID: <200008152346.SAA20366@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Also have: Event Driven Executive, Licensed Program Study Guide. Event Driven Executive, Language Reference. -Lawrence LeMay > > To the person with the > > manuals, could you go through and post the model numbers for the > > items that the manuals go with? > > Against all sane logic on my part, i've managed to grab most if not all the > manuals that were in the hallway. I'm not sure what you mean by model > numbers, as most of this stuff reads like greek ;) > > All manuals have a 4955 on the label outside the binders, is that what you > mean? Or were you asking about every sub-manual in each binder? > > I have one large set (10+ binders), possibly incomplete, of 'board and > card logics'. I have 3 copies of MLD, Logic, Volume 1. 3 copies of SYT, > System Test, Volume 4 (though one appears to be an index different than > the other 2 copies). I have 4 copies of TDM, Theory, Volume 5. > > And i have several copies of MLM, MAP/MIM, Volume 2. These are usually a > 2 binder set, but there is a 3 bunder set, and some individual ones, so > i'm confused for now. No time to read these over right now. > > I have at least 2 copies of Event Driven Executive, Operators Reference. > One copy of Event Driven Executive, Messages and Codes. One copy of > Event Driven Executive, System Guide. i have a few more manuals at > home, so i may have more copies of these or other things. > > I have a package of 10 small brass jumpers, PN 4410751. > > Small stuff ============ > > General purpose Interface Bus (GPIB) adapter - RPQ D02118. custom feature. > > 4966 autoloader diskette storage unit IR functional unit and cause code guide > > 4966 diskette magazine unit parts catalog > > diskette magazine unit 4966 unit installation instructions > > 4979 display station parts catalog > > 4979 display station instalation instructions (and a plastic adjustment tool) > > 4962 disk storage unit partsw catalog (and a pack of 6 wire jumpers about > 4 inches long, plus a package of 2 test wires i guess) > > 4974 printer parts catalog (plus package containing one small bolt, package > containing one lock washer, package containing 4 long wire jumpers, > package containing steel wool lined cable clamp) > > -Lawrence LeMay > From ss at allegro.com Tue Aug 15 18:43:18 2000 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000814213130.00aec100@pacbell.net> References: <4.1.20000725133739.009151d0@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <39997326.26967.1ED41BB0@localhost> Re: > I opened up the box, and there was the Sorcerer. Cosmetically it appeared > to be in good shape. It had nice heft. But the alarm bells started going > off. Not only was there no power, there were NO CONNECTORS of > any kind. All the holes were covered (from the inside) with black > cardboard. The case had some "bonus" venting holes with black screen > mesh, which didn't allow any airflow, and appeared to be there only > for effect. > > With a sinking stomach, I unscrewed the case to find inside... > a sheet of 1/2" plywood screwed to the bottom, with no main board. Scam issue aside, let's look at the question of "what did you get"? Is there any chance you have an Exidy built mockup of the Sorcerer? If so, this might be of some value to a collector (even if it isn't what one would have expected). BTW, a real Sorcerer has the "bonus" venting holes you mention. Would it be of interest to see up-close photos of the case of a real Sorcerer? Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Aug 15 19:09:48 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: New Finds Today In-Reply-To: <018b01c0070a$65ffbc60$d0731fd1@default> from "John R. Keys Jr." at "Aug 15, 2000 05:44:39 pm" Message-ID: <200008160009.TAA20392@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > Hello sorry for the long delays in messages but I'm going to St. Louis > this weekend to visit and shop for computers. > Good God, John. Just how rich are you? ;) You're not interested in big Sun's are you? like a Sun rackmounted system, possibly sun 3 vintage, scsi and SMD interfaces. Or a sun 400(something) I forget the exact model, that someone is trying to get rid of? You'll have to visit Minneapolis sometime to get them though ;) ;) -Lawrence LeMay From west at tseinc.com Tue Aug 15 19:31:48 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: New Finds Today References: <022201bfc521$9b444b00$7d731fd1@default> <002901bfc5e1$23173460$75741918@fauradon> <018b01c0070a$65ffbc60$d0731fd1@default> Message-ID: <003901c00719$5e8623c0$0101a8c0@jay> You're coming to St. Louis John? If so, (and you're so inclined)... drop me a line off-list and I'll buy you lunch one of the days you're here. I'm pretty familiar with the local surplus stores (such as they are). I'm always up to chat a bit about when computers were "real computers". Jay West From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 15 20:31:28 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Computer Hardware Documentation Bidders Mailing List? In-Reply-To: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8E7D@NSWCDLVAEX04> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, Corda Albert J DLVA wrote: > no flames!, this is just my opinion). It has occured to me that if a > mailing list were set up where a person could post their intention of > bidding on a specific piece of duplicatable documentation, then other > potential bidders could contact the initial poster and work out a deal > where they could "share" the cost of the initial poster's bid (plus > copying charges), in return for not competing with the initial poster's > bid.You may have noticed that I have avoided the problem of copyright > infringement. I believe that with documentation of the vintage that I am > refering to, such issues are probably moot, especially since In many > cases the companies no longer exist. Sure, but I think there's another problem, which is that this practice is most likely illegal :) Still, I won't fault you for it and I won't turn you in either (I'll have my terms e-mailed to you off-list ;) > Also, I wonder of some of the on-line "Computer Museums" might > consider hosting an on-line documentation repository, where people > could submit scanned schematics/manuals/etc. for (free) web-based > access and archival purposes. It would be a tremendous service I'd like to do this someday when I complete my organization. If someone beats me to it in the mean time then all the better. > to our on-line community. Currently, this is being done by a number > of very helpful individuals, but I would think that some of the "real" > museum sites might be more capable of organizing such info and > supporting the amount of storage needed. They have the same problems we do: lack of time and resources. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From vcf at siconic.com Tue Aug 15 23:09:56 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Online Altair, CP/M, RDOS emulators Message-ID: Check out this k-k00L website: http://elena.sysun.com/museum/ The Online Software Museum It has telnet-based Altair BASIC, CP/M, RDOS and Unix 7th edition emulators. You telnet in and you are then put in a shell of one of the mentioned OS'. Pretty nifty. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From frustum at pacbell.net Wed Aug 16 02:06:53 2000 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: References: <001301c006e5$f745d440$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000815234749.00b712a0@pacbell.net> At 12:49 PM 8/15/00 -0800, you wrote: >Since we are snooping so much on this, what was the auction ID, or maybe >just post the auction listing ad. Looks like Yahoo doesn't let you search >for completed auctions (ebay recently GREATLY restricted this to subject >only and drops items after about 60 days). http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/33861557 The posting consists of a somewhat blurry but decent photo of the unit from about 2 feet away, from an angle a bit behind where a person would actually sit. The only odd thing in the photo is that there are three non-standard toggle switches mounted on top (which I've seen others do on other computers to add extra resets, change the clock rate, whatever). There are a couple close-up shots showing the computer name. Finally, there is this text (no other): Exidy inc. no nothing else about computer. I have had another exchange with the seller enumerating the reasons why I feel ripped off and prodding him to share the pain with me. His reply was, more or less, too bad. I'm sending a slightly more pointed reply at this moment. He even suggested that I try to sell it to the 2nd highest bidder. Sheesh. I suspect I won't make any more progress this way, but I've got to try the civil route first before getting more obnoxious. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From agraham at ccat.co.uk Wed Aug 16 05:53:53 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] Message-ID: <00Aug16.115356bst.46101@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> I thought that too, plus I wondered what the original text of the auction actually said with regard to the state of the machine and whether the seller knew it was a prop or not. If it simply said 'Exidy Sorcerer in good condition' I'd maybe have emailed asking for a picture rather than just bid on it outright. More often than not I don't look at auctions that don't include pictures anyway. a > -----Original Message----- > From: Will Jennings [mailto:xds_sigma7@hotmail.com] > Sent: 15 August 2000 19:02 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] > > > I'd say its a bit suspect that someone 90 minutes away would > insist on > shipping the thing.. as if they didn't want you to discover > the fact that it > had no mainboard and be able to personally confront them about it... > > Just my 2 cents... > > Will J > ______________________________________________________________ > __________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at > http://www.hotmail.com > From agraham at ccat.co.uk Wed Aug 16 06:04:33 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] Message-ID: <00Aug16.120435bst.46101@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> On seeing those pictures I'd have immediately asked the seller what condition it was in and whether it came with any books, cables etc. I'd also go with the fact that maybe it IS an Exidy mockup, but since I haven't seen one 'in the plastic' I couldn't comment and wouldn't know where to start asking, except for on here of course :) a > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Battle [mailto:frustum@pacbell.net] > Sent: 16 August 2000 08:40 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] > > > At 12:49 PM 8/15/00 -0800, you wrote: > >Since we are snooping so much on this, what was the auction > ID, or maybe > >just post the auction listing ad. Looks like Yahoo doesn't > let you search > >for completed auctions (ebay recently GREATLY restricted > this to subject > >only and drops items after about 60 days). > > http://page.auctions.yahoo.com/auction/33861557 From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Aug 16 07:33:31 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Last week's haul & some questions Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB06B@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > The two drives in question are indeed 8mm, but only support the 8200 > format. Can anybody enlighten me on that, who used that format, etc. The Exabyte 8200 was used by several computer manufacturers; IBM, Pr1me, Sun (I think), and maybe Apollo... however, IBM used a custom SCSI card in theirs (called a DI card, maybe diff SCSI?), and Pr1me used custom firmware. Additionally, tape interchange between identical drives was often chancy, although if you have the docs and a head sync tape, you should be able to align it to read tapes written on other drives. I'd be shocked if DEC never used the 8200... Full docs are available on Exabyte's web site. If you can't find them, let me know, I'll dig out the URL. hth, -dq From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Aug 16 08:05:08 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: <39997326.26967.1ED41BB0@localhost> References: <4.3.2.7.0.20000814213130.00aec100@pacbell.net> <4.1.20000725133739.009151d0@mail.pressstart.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000816080339.022e9e20@pc> I think you should find out if this "computer" was in a famous movie, then sell it for even more than you paid, given the improved provenance. :-) - John From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Aug 16 08:23:36 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: New Finds Today References: <200008160009.TAA20392@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <005201c00785$33117200$46701fd1@default> Sorry you have me mixed up with someone else, I go to work 40 hours a week like everyone else. I'm at a age and stage in life were there is only my wife and I and since I'm very serious about starting a museum I need items to fill it. As stated before I work odd jobs on the side to get money to help pay for the items I purchase. I do also spend a large share of my income on computers but again I have no small kids to take care of. Most people have things they like to do and since nothing is really free you have spend money, some like boats, some like cars (to restore), some like to collect art, and the list goes on. John Keys ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence LeMay" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 7:09 PM Subject: Re: New Finds Today > > Hello sorry for the long delays in messages but I'm going to St. Louis > > this weekend to visit and shop for computers. > > > > Good God, John. Just how rich are you? ;) > > You're not interested in big Sun's are you? like a Sun rackmounted system, > possibly sun 3 vintage, scsi and SMD interfaces. Or a sun 400(something) > I forget the exact model, that someone is trying to get rid of? You'll > have to visit Minneapolis sometime to get them though ;) ;) > > -Lawrence LeMay > From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Aug 16 08:39:38 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Computer Hardware Documentation Bidders Mailing List? References: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8E7D@NSWCDLVAEX04> Message-ID: <006c01c00787$6d546240$46701fd1@default> I agree with you, because I sometime have pay more than I really want to get something that I need or either I back off and let the other person have it and hope more comes online. I have tried what you suggest in trying to work with other bidders and let them have it in exchange for a copy of the manual but each time someone else comes in at the last second and out bids them and we all end up with nothing, so it's a big gamble sometimes. The best is a online site that does get doc's from all over and puts up for the use of all. I have a large collection of manuals and would be willing donate for free to a site that would put them online for others. I get request from strangers all the time for copies of manuals that I have but I do not own a copier and the cost to copy 300 to 400 or more pages is too high and too much time if you are doing a bound book. John Keys ----- Original Message ----- From: "Corda Albert J DLVA" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 6:01 PM Subject: Computer Hardware Documentation Bidders Mailing List? > > Over the past couple of months, I've been trying to accumulate > some basic DEC documentation. There is quite a bit available > on the web, but I've needed a number of manuals/schematics/etc. > that I haven't been able to find, and as a result I've been forced > to use E-pay more than I would have liked. I don't know how many > of you out there have checked the DEC/PDP offerings on ebay, > but there has been quite a lot offered recently in the way of > documentation. Unfortunately, I find myself bidding against people > who share my same interest, and it saddens me since I've always > felt that documentation should be available for everyone who wants > it (please, no flames! This is just a personal opinion) Documentation > is unique in that, in many cases, a photocopy (or scanned image) > in place of the actual document would be just as useful to me as the > original since my interests lean towards restoring the hardware, > rather than collecting the "original" documentation. I also see small > manuals/schematic sets/etc. being broken up into indivudual items > and going for what I believe is much more than they are worth (again, > no flames!, this is just my opinion). It has occured to me that if a > mailing list were set up where a person could post their intention of > bidding on a specific piece of duplicatable documentation, then other > potential bidders could contact the initial poster and work out a deal > where they could "share" the cost of the initial poster's bid (plus > copying charges), in return for not competing with the initial poster's > bid.You may have noticed that I have avoided the problem of copyright > infringement. I believe that with documentation of the vintage that I am > refering to, such issues are probably moot, especially since In many > cases the companies no longer exist. As far as the sellers on E-bay > go, they have a significant advantage since their individual items remain > on the block for days, rather than minutes as in a "real" auction. > (but let's not turn this into yet another "is E-bay fair?" thread :-) > > Also, I wonder of some of the on-line "Computer Museums" might > consider hosting an on-line documentation repository, where people > could submit scanned schematics/manuals/etc. for (free) web-based > access and archival purposes. It would be a tremendous service > to our on-line community. Currently, this is being done by a number > of very helpful individuals, but I would think that some of the "real" > museum sites might be more capable of organizing such info and > supporting the amount of storage needed. > > Again, I'm just throing these ideas out to see if anyone thinks > they have any merit... > > > > -al- > -acorda@geocities.com > > From PasserM at umkc.edu Wed Aug 16 08:54:45 2000 From: PasserM at umkc.edu (Passer, Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] Message-ID: <95A711A70065D111B58C00609451555C07735223@umkc-mail02.wins.umkc.edu> Thank you for posting the pointer and making the facts and identity of the seller known so that rest of us can caveat emptor. Many would have sucked it up and kept quiet rather than let others know they had been cheated, and letting us know took some guts. I would have been fooled by this picture too--but what you bought may well be valuable as an advertising mockup. I think there would be some poetic justice if (after trying all the remedies available to you) you sold it on eBay as what it was and doubled your money--and made sure the seller knew! An aside: I had to create an ID just to view the auction--this was somewhat irritating, and I hope the information I gave suitably contaminates their marketing database. The seller's ID (in case that's all someone was after and he doesn't want to go through the trouble of making up a birth date, occupation, etc.) is jwzerocool. Of course, it's pretty easy to crunch all the user ID's one wants on any of these sites. From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 16 08:49:46 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: <95A711A70065D111B58C00609451555C07735223@umkc-mail02.wins.umkc.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Passer, Michael wrote: > I would have been fooled by this picture too--but what you > bought may well be valuable as an advertising mockup. I think > there would be some poetic justice if (after trying all > the remedies available to you) you sold it on eBay > as what it was and doubled your money--and made sure the > seller knew! I like the "Make lemonaide if you get lemons" philosophy of life but this idea that perhaps it was an advertising mock up worth n times more than what he paid is silly. I know you're all just trying to make Jim feel better but the fact remains that he was screwed. Why would a piece of plywood be inside? To make it weigh the same as a real Sorcerer? Pure speculation but maybe the stupid seller was duped into buying this a time ago at a flea market, and now feels justified in scamming the next guy? Actually, the first thought I had is that the plywood was used as a mounting surface for the motherboard, but why would it need that when the case was designed for that purpose? Jim, I'd say to turn the pressure up on this guy, claim that HE put the plywood inside to make it weigh the same as a regular Sorcerer. It's not an unreasonable claim to make and will put his ass on the hotseat. The nerve of some people. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From frustum at pacbell.net Wed Aug 16 10:57:19 2000 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: References: <" <95A711A70065D111B58C00609451555C07735223"@umkc-mail02.wins.umkc.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000816085316.00b63c50@pacbell.net> At 06:49 AM 8/16/00 -0700, you wrote: >On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Passer, Michael wrote: > >... >Why would a piece of plywood be inside? To make it weigh the same as a >real Sorcerer? Pure speculation but maybe the stupid seller was duped >into buying this a time ago at a flea market, and now feels justified in >scamming the next guy? ... I think the original keyboard connector was removed and replaced with another cable that led out of the box, but that cable was cut at some point. I think the plywood was simply to give the box weight so that when it was used as a "cool" keyboard, it wouldn't shift around on the desk it was on. Finally, I really do think the seller doesn't know a lot about computers. Looking at the other stuff he was selling, computers weren't his specialty. I think he had suspicions about its condition but was willfully ignorant (it takes about 3 minutes to unscrew 5 screws or so to peek inside). He made *far* more off of it than he was expecting, and is reluctant to give up any of this undeserved windfall. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Aug 16 11:14:15 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: New Finds Brings New Needs... In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Tue, 15 Aug 2000 19:19:12 +0100 (BST)" References: Message-ID: <200008161614.JAA27415@daemonweed.reanimators.org> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > You'll probably find the battery in the Portable+ is very dead. It's a > 6V 2.4Ah lead acid brick, and it's non-trivial to obtain. 3 2.5Ah cyclons > can be kludged into the battery compartment -- in fact it appears that > the original HP battery was just that. Changing the battery is not easy > even with the service manual -- if you follow the procedure there you're > supposed to replace the metal contact straps as well, and they do tend to > break fairly easily. I find it better to pull the machine to bits and > take the battery out after separating the case parts. Huh. You mean you're not supposed to take the machine to bits to replace the battery? I learn something new every day. (But really I take freshly-acquired Pluses to bits because it makes cleaning them easier.) I seem to find two sorts of Portable Plus: one with the Panasonic lead-acid brick, and one with three Gates lead-acid cells. The former don't hold a charge, the latter are somewhat more likely to do so. iGo sell replacements; these turn out to be made by Fedco Electronics from three Gates lead-acid cells and at least one of the two I got a couple months ago appears to be a dud that won't charge up above about 3v. More on this in a bit. > The machine will run from the mains adapter without a battery (or with a > dead battery?) but you'll lose everything in the RAMdisk (and the > configuration settings) when you unplug the machine. Can I assume you > don't have a 9114 disk drive (which is the normal form of mass storage > for these machines)? Whether the machine will run from the main adapter appears to depend on how dead the battery is, or perhaps on how the battery is dead. For example, the last couple I've turned up have worked OK from the mains adapter but wouldn't hold a charge and wouldn't retain data with the mains adapter unplugged. But...replacing a dead Panasonic brick with one of the iGo/Fedco batteries has resulted in a machine that won't turn on at all -- presumably because the battery is drawing the supply and not leaving enough for the machine to run. So I'm wondering what I'm looking at here: cells that have been left on the shelf long enough that they've shorted internally, or what? Sheesh, given that iGo/Fedco cleverly omit the screw posts from their replacement batteries, I might as well buy my own cells and solder the appropriate tabs together. -Frank McConnell From red at bears.org Wed Aug 16 13:25:29 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Last week's haul & some questions In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB06B@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Sun (I think), and maybe Apollo... however, IBM used a custom SCSI card > in theirs (called a DI card, maybe diff SCSI?), Yes, the DI card provides an 8-bit differential SCSI interface to the Exabyte 8200. From personal experience, these interface cards are all interchangeable: I took the 8-bit single ended interface card out of a junked 8200 and installed it in place of the DI card in the IBM OEM 8200 I got from William Donzelli, however long ago it was, to use with one of my Apollos. I forget the designator for the SE interface, but I can look it up at home if anybody is really dying to know. ok r. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Aug 16 14:28:20 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Computer Hardware Documentation Bidders Mailing List? In-Reply-To: (message from Sellam Ismail on Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:31:28 -0700 (PDT)) References: Message-ID: <20000816192820.24366.qmail@brouhaha.com> Sellam wrote: > Sure, but I think there's another problem, which is that this practice is > most likely illegal :) If someone would set up a library, there are lots of exemptions in copyright law for those. It would probably have to be set up as a non-profit corporation; otherwise it might be possible for a copyright holder that wants to stir up trouble to claim that it's not a "real" library. Copyright law allows a library to make a (single) photocopy of a document to lend out in place of a rare document. I think a case could be made that a scanned image is equivalent. You'd just have to require that the borrower return the scanned image when they're done with it. Perhaps a scheme like netlibrary uses would work. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Aug 16 15:26:13 2000 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Compaq sets final order dates for VAXen. Message-ID: <13571942394.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> VAX 4000, MicroVAX 3100, and all associated options are being retired. Final order date is September 30,2000. The last ship date will be Dec 31,2000. http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/vax/vax_dates.html The VAX is dead. Long Live the VAX! ------- From rachael_ at gmx.net Wed Aug 16 05:57:35 2000 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: 8086 Emulation Message-ID: <556.263T1755T7173179rachael_@gmx.net> >Emulation of the IBM ROM BASIC, and IBM ROM BIOS, is also greatly desired, >although, I am not sure whether these can be legally copied :-). Emulation If you need rom dump of those rom, I can help you as I still have my Ibm pc. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind Public Pgp key available on request -------------------------------------------------- = IF this computer is with us now... = =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = -------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 16 13:22:03 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 16, 0 06:49:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1501 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000816/a6c2269c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 16 13:05:50 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000815234749.00b712a0@pacbell.net> from "Jim Battle" at Aug 16, 0 00:06:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1988 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000816/c4fbf9d8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 16 13:29:20 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: New Finds Brings New Needs... In-Reply-To: <200008161614.JAA27415@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Aug 16, 0 09:14:15 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2733 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000816/299e7f03/attachment.ksh From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Aug 16 17:06:14 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Computer Hardware Documentation Bidders Mailing List? Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB06F@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Sellam wrote: > > Sure, but I think there's another problem, which is that this practice is > > most likely illegal :) > > If someone would set up a library, there are lots of exemptions in > copyright law for those. It would probably have to be set up as a > non-profit corporation; otherwise it might be possible for a copyright > holder that wants to stir up trouble to claim that it's not a "real" > library. > > Copyright law allows a library to make a (single) photocopy of a document to > lend out in place of a rare document. I think a case could be made that > a scanned image is equivalent. You'd just have to require that the > borrower return the scanned image when they're done with it. Perhaps a > scheme like netlibrary uses would work. Hey, Eric- Speaking of computer documentation, what did you find out about what's become of my DEC-10 Commands Manual that I sent you for photocopying? I need it back. Thanks, -doug q From elmo at mminternet.com Wed Aug 16 17:31:49 2000 From: elmo at mminternet.com (Eliot Moore) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Covers for Classics Message-ID: <399B1654.286AB151@mminternet.com> Anyone have a good source for new dust covers that roughly fit Commodore Pets (9" & 12"), VT52's, and ADM-3a's? My originals have just about, eh, bit the dust. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Aug 16 19:47:52 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Covers for Classics In-Reply-To: <399B1654.286AB151@mminternet.com> Message-ID: >Anyone have a good source for new dust covers that roughly fit Commodore >Pets (9" & 12"), VT52's, and ADM-3a's? >My originals have just about, eh, bit the dust. Last I looked in the Fullerton Calif GSA surplus they had a pallet or two of the typical old dust covers. From Mzthompson at aol.com Wed Aug 16 18:57:46 2000 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: DEC documentation available Message-ID: <55.9ac1870.26cc847a@aol.com> On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, Corda Albert J DLVA wrote under the Subject: Computer Hardware Documentation Bidders Mailing List? > Over the past couple of months, I've been trying to accumulate > some basic DEC documentation. There is quite a bit available > on the web, but I've needed a number of manuals/schematics/etc. > that I haven't been able to find, and as a result I've been forced > to use E-pay more than I would have liked. I don't know how many > of you out there have checked the DEC/PDP offerings on ebay, > but there has been quite a lot offered recently in the way of > documentation. Unfortunately, I find myself bidding against people > who share my same interest, and it saddens me since I've always > felt that documentation should be available for everyone who wants > it (please, no flames! This is just a personal opinion) Albert, I agree with the notion that the docs should be available to everyone. Read on... On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, I wrote under the Subject: Last week's haul & some questions > A few weeks ago I got a call from a company (I know a lot of the > folks there) saying they wanted to get rid of the DEC library. > That amounted to a carload of books and tapes. > > When I went in to get the equipment last week, they allowed me to > rummage through their library and snatch any DEC manuals they had > overlooked earlier. I started to haul all these manuals into the house today and got as far as the kitchen when I realized that there is nothing here that I don't already have. Then an idea came to me. Instead of hauling them into the computer room, I hauled most of the DEC books to the kitchen and sorted it out as to keepers and excess. I want to make the excess available to anyone who wants them. My idea is that if you want one of these manuals, then send me a SASE big enough to hold the book you want, and I will mail it back to you. Below is a list of manuals. Most of these are small single booklets, none more than 1/2" thick, and should fit in an envelope. The list below contains the dimensions of the books. Here's the game plan: 1) first come, first serve 2) email me, stating which book(s) you want. I will reserve the books for you and either email you or post a 'prize list' on the list if traffic warrants. I will try to keep the list informed as to when each book's supply is spoken for. 3) Send me an SASE, one for each book that you want (with exceptions noted below). 4) No coins please, include only folding money as a gratuity for taking this on, or for the therapist I may need. I'm only kidding, all I would like you to include is a note containing your email address and book list to make it easier filling the 'orders'. Besides, I would just blow the money on more computer junk (Oops, I meant stuff). 5) Campout at your mailbox until the books arrive, then enjoy. The exceptions to the one book/one envelope will be where there is also a reference card that will be included with the book. See notes below. Please do not email me and ask for a mess of books to be shipped to you in a box. In essence, I don't want to bother with running clear across town to ship stuff. This way, I only have to go to the end of the driveway. The SASE method is the only way this will be handled. I guess I could make an exception if you show up in the driveway tomorrow morning with your tongue hanging out & drooling all over yourself, but that's the only exception. OK, the here's the list: (last number under dimensions (Dim:) is thickness) Title: BA42 Storage Expansion Box Installation Guide P/N: EK-BA42A-IN-002 Quant: 2 Dim: 9 x 11 x 1/4 Notes: first caller gets the one shrink wrapped copy Title: DEQNA Ethernet User's Guide P/N: EK-DEQNA-UG-002 Quant: 3 Dim: 9 x 11 x 1/4 Notes: This is for the Q-bus circuit card Title: DHQ11 User Guide P/N: EK-DHQ11-UG-002 Quant: 2 Dim: 9 x 11 x 1/4+ Notes: This is for the Q-bus serial card, lot of good info Title: 881 Power Controller User Guide P/N: EK-881PC-UG-003 Quant: 1 Dim: 9 x 11 x 1/8 Notes: One of the few DEC docs with a actual schematic Title: DECserver 200 Hardware Installation/Owner's Guide P/N: EK-D200C-IN-001 Quant: 6 Dim: 7 x 9 x 3/8 Notes: The first caller will have the option of receiving the bonus, the following phamplets: DS200 Commands Mini-Reference DS200 Rackmount Options Installation Guide (shrink wrapped) Allow another 1/8" for these Title: DECserver 300 Hardware Installation P/N: unk Quant: 1 Dim: 7 x 9 x 1/4 Notes: Also includes the Commands Quick Reference phamplet (shrink wrapped) Title: VT320 Installation & User's Guide P/N: EK-VT320-UG-001 Quant: 3 Dim: 7 x 9 x 1/4 Notes: first caller gets the one shrink wrapped copy Title: VT220 Owner's Manual P/N: EK-VT220-UG-001 Quant: 1 Dim: 7 x 9 x 1/4 Notes: spiral bound version Title: DECserver 500 User's Reference Card P/N: AV-LD86B-TK Quant: 1 Dim: 4 x 8 x 1/16 Notes: only the card, sorry no books Title: DESTA Installation Card P/N: EK-DESTA-IN-002 Quant: 1 Dim: 4 x 8 x 1/16 Notes: Title: TK50 Tape Drive Subsytem User's Guide P/N: EK-OTK50-UG-004 Quant: 2 Dim: 7 x 9 x 1/8 Notes: Title: TK70 Streaming Tape Drive Owner's Manual P/N: EK-OTK70-OM-001 Quant: 2 Dim: 7 x 9 x 1/8 Notes: Title: VXT2000 Windowing Terminal - Installation & Getting Started P/N: EK-VXT20-IN.B01 Quant: 2 Dim: 7 x 9 x 1/4 Notes: I know that there is a companion User's guide to this, but I don't have any of them. Title: VR320 Color Monitor - Installation & User's Guide P/N: EK-VR320-IN-001 Quant: 4 (plus 3, see below) Dim: 7.5 x 9 x 1/8 Notes: I also versions for the feriners on the list. EK-AP428-IN.001 French EK-AG428-IN.001 German EK-AU428-IN.001 Italian FYI - This is the monitor used with the VXT2000/VXT2000+ series. Send your SASE to: Mike Thompson 8470 So US Hwy 41 Terre Haute, IN 47802-5198 I am doing this 1) to get rid of the excess, 2) as an experiment to see if the SASE idea will work well. Here's hoping. Mike From nabil at SpiritOne.com Wed Aug 16 19:27:22 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: DEC TU-56 Restoration, (Yet another lost cause? :-) In-Reply-To: <20000815232139.13780.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 15 Aug 2000, Eric Smith wrote: > > Also, the TU-56 manual I downloaded indicated that I might/might not > > need 5 G888 modules (Manchester Read/Write interfaces) depending on > > what the drive was connected to. Anyone know any more about this? > > I'm intending to use the drive on an 11/34a. > > For use on a PDP-11, you'll need a TC11 control. The TC11 will contain > five G888 modules, and you won't need any in the TU56. I have a TC11 that is surplus to my needs (it currently has a TU56 attached, but they could be separated). -- Aaron Nabil From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Aug 16 20:10:21 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: DEC TU-56 Restoration, (Yet another lost cause? :-) In-Reply-To: (message from Aaron Nabil on Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:27:22 -0700 (PDT)) References: Message-ID: <20000817011021.27599.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I have a TC11 that is surplus to my needs (it currently has a TU56 > attached, but they could be separated). I've been looking for one. How's $200 for it sound? Cheers, Eric From Glenatacme at aol.com Wed Aug 16 22:46:09 2000 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: On being ripped off Message-ID: <67.8698527.26ccba01@aol.com> Hey Jim (and group) Sorry to hear about your troubles. There are some really rotten individuals out there and advancements in technology just bring them nearer to us all. It was very kind of the group here to suggest that the seller was acting in ignorance, and to also suggest that you might have some legal recourse, but the sad facts are that you've been had, intentionally, and there's very little you can do about it except visit this gentleman at his abode and teach him what he needs to learn about old computers and the folks who collect and use them. Lesson One, "Introduction to Classic Computers," begins with jamming a piece of plywood right up the chute . . . I made a few phone calls today. I live in Orlando FL so I'll assume the "system" here is a typical one. Those living in rural areas or smaller cities might find that they can get better results due to smaller caseloads. The State Attorney's office (that's what they call them here, in most places it's District Atty.) actively discouraged me from filing a complaint when I called pretending to be the victim in this scenario. Reasons: small $$$ amount, giant backlog of cases. The County Clerk of Courts also made it clear that filing a civil suit in Small Claims would be a waste of time and money. The filing charge here is $100, and a $200 suit will be referred to arbitration, and will take a year or two just to make it to court, if it ever does. The Economic Crimes Unit of the Sheriff's Office said they are so inundated with bad checks that they won't even prosecute a bad check if it's less than $150, and since they don't know a computer from a compost heap, they wouldn't touch this one. The USPS rep I spoke with was sympathetic but said that they don't go after one-hit crooks. If 100 people complained about this guy then that might get their attention. So, it's on you. If it were me I wound hound this guy until he gave me back my $$$ just to get rid of me. If that didn't work I would make sure that I got $200 worth of satisfaction out of him, one way or another. Man alive, what a bummer :>( Keep us posted on this -- Glen 0/0 From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 16 22:08:21 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: On being ripped off In-Reply-To: <67.8698527.26ccba01@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 16 Aug 2000 Glenatacme@aol.com wrote: > I made a few phone calls today. I live in Orlando FL so I'll assume the > "system" here is a typical one. Those living in rural areas or smaller > cities might find that they can get better results due to smaller caseloads. What goes in Orlando, FL, is certainly not indicative of what may go on in other parts of the country. Priorities may be different, and caseloads may be far less than in Orlando (which is one of the U.S.A's dens of iniquity :) (just joking, Orlando is a fine city.) > The State Attorney's office (that's what they call them here, in most places > it's District Atty.) actively discouraged me from filing a complaint when I > called pretending to be the victim in this scenario. Reasons: small $$$ > amount, giant backlog of cases. Again, where Jim lives may be entirely different. The D.A. may have a wild hair up his/her ass about mail fraud and may want to prosecute this. Or they may believe, as should be the case everywhere, that people are entitled to due process and the service of their public servants. > The County Clerk of Courts also made it clear that filing a civil suit in > Small Claims would be a waste of time and money. The filing charge here is > $100, and a $200 suit will be referred to arbitration, and will take a year > or two just to make it to court, if it ever does. And the losing party pays the legal bills generally (in effect you also sue for court costs). And again, this is entirely specific to the bylaws of Orlando, FL. > The Economic Crimes Unit of the Sheriff's Office said they are so inundated > with bad checks that they won't even prosecute a bad check if it's less than > $150, and since they don't know a computer from a compost heap, they wouldn't > touch this one. ...in Orlando, FL. > The USPS rep I spoke with was sympathetic but said that they don't go after > one-hit crooks. If 100 people complained about this guy then that might get > their attention. Ok, so the USPS is a bust. Screw them. Their service sucks anyway. > So, it's on you. If it were me I wound hound this guy until he gave me back > my $$$ just to get rid of me. If that didn't work I would make sure that I > got $200 worth of satisfaction out of him, one way or another. I've got a wonderful bag of tricks. E-mail me off-list. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From at258 at osfn.org Wed Aug 16 23:16:07 2000 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: On being ripped off In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I've got a wonderful bag of tricks. E-mail me off-list. In Rhode Island, it's traditional to hire professionals to counsel the offender and secure satisfaction. They're called hitmen. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Thu Aug 17 00:15:47 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: On being ripped off References: Message-ID: <008d01c0080a$346e1a60$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle K. Peirce" To: Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 1:46 PM Subject: Re: On being ripped off > > I've got a wonderful bag of tricks. E-mail me off-list. > > In Rhode Island, it's traditional to hire professionals to counsel the > offender and secure satisfaction. They're called hitmen. We have a similar custom in Oz, but it generally involves a late night visit from members of the local rugby league team. They work cheap, half a dozen cartons of their favourite ale is generally sufficient. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 17 00:12:31 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: On being ripped off In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > I've got a wonderful bag of tricks. E-mail me off-list. > > In Rhode Island, it's traditional to hire professionals to counsel the > offender and secure satisfaction. They're called hitmen. It's not like he bilked Jim out of hundreds of thousands of dollars or banged his wife. We're only talking a couple hundred bucks. A potato up the tailpipe and some sugar in the gas tank is more in order. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 17 00:13:34 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: On being ripped off In-Reply-To: <008d01c0080a$346e1a60$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Geoff Roberts wrote: > We have a similar custom in Oz, but it generally involves a late night > visit from members of the local rugby league team. They work cheap, > half a dozen cartons of their favourite ale is generally sufficient. Hey, we could use a rugby league in the States :) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Aug 17 01:21:13 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-trackers available Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000816232113.0096fb70@pop.sttl.uswest.net> I've just put up two SCSI 9-track tape drives (front autoloaders) on Haggle under 'Drives.' The first one is a SCSI-SE M4 Data 9914 at: http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=202390084 The second is a SCSI-DIFF interface HP 88780 (Tandem 5190 badged) at: http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=202390090 The 9914 is known to be working, if a bit dinged cosmetically. The 88780 is unknown condition at this time, but it was pulled out of a working system. I may be able to do a basic power-on test for it in the near future. FWIW, the M4 drive is still a current/supported product. The 88780 may or may not be. I'm -really- reluctant to ship these because of size/weight. With either unit, you'd be looking at shipping costs of around $170 ($100 for a custom box, another $70 or so for ground shipping and insurance). So, unless you're not local to the area and are REALLY desperate for a SCSI 9-tracker, I'd prefer local pickup. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Thu Aug 17 06:25:06 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Adam Osborne In-Reply-To: <007c01c0070d$68bd9c80$26e3cfd8@pavilion> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Aug 2000 18:58:47 -0400 PG Manney wrote: > Sorry to all who helped. Brain dead day... I really ment an Osborne > Luggable, not a Coleco Adam. I collected an Osborne 1 from Cambridge (UK) a few weeks ago. Also got quite a bit of software and manuals. > So... what's it worth? I got mine for free, just by picking it up! The previous owner sent an e-mail to the list, and was only too happy that somebody was interested in keeping old machines alive. > Thanks, > P Manney -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Aug 17 07:05:46 2000 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Sad auction story [exidy sorcerer] Message-ID: <8025693E.004226DE.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> >> The posting consists of a somewhat blurry but decent photo of the >> unit from about 2 feet away, from an angle a bit behind where a >> person would actually sit. The only odd thing in the photo is that there >> are three non-standard toggle switches mounted on top (which I've > > Are those present on the machine you received? If so, it would probably > indicate that what you have is not an adversting mock-up.... I'd go with that! > There is one possibility that's not been mentioned yet. You might have an > Exidy product, but not from a sorcerer system. Some manufacturers used > cases/keyboards of their smaller machines as keyboards on larger machines > -- Acorn did for one. The Acorn System keyboard is mounted in the same > case (or at least a very similar case) to the Acorn Atom home computer. > Did Exidy ever make anything other than the Sorcerer? They made video games, as far as I know (of the self contained, arcade sort, I mean). I once saw one called "Targ" in (I think) a cheap restaurant in Bristol. I can imagine that these would definitely _not_ want a keyboard installed during normal use, but might want one plugged in during maintenance or factory testing. The custom switches would then do things like toggling between run-as-arcade-game and service mode. Just a thought. > Alternatively, if somebody working at Exidy needed a keyboard for a > development system, or similar, it would be likely they'd use parts of a > Sorcerer. They'd be easy to get, and known. > > I thinki it's more likely, though, that either this is a deliberate scam > (not necessarily started by the person who offered this for sale) or that > some hacker years ago needed a keyboard and used parts from a Sorcerer. > The piece of plywood inside the case may have been to weight it down so > it could be _used_ as a keyboard. Also possibilities. > [...] > >> I have had another exchange with the seller enumerating the reasons >> why I feel ripped off and prodding him to share the pain with me. >> >> His reply was, more or less, too bad. I'm sending a slightly more > > Ouch!. This is, alas, looking ever more like a deliberate scam. A > reasonable seller would admit he made a mistake and offer to put things > right IMHO. My guess is that the guy who sold it had no idea what it was, but has spent the money, and so is just going to be bloody-minded about giving it back. Not that it really affects getting the money back, of course :-( I'd tell him that if he doesn't cough up at least some (Say, $50) of your $200 within a week, you will be filing a case against him in the small claims court for $400 - the increase being to cover fees and expenses. After which you will still expect to receive your fees from him even if he settles out of court. That might hurry him up a bit... >> pointed reply at this moment. He even suggested that I try to sell >> it to the 2nd highest bidder. Sheesh. I suspect I won't make any more > > Oh, I see. He misrepresents a product to you and the cure is for you to > misrepresent it to somebody else??? Quite. Philip. ********************************************************************** This message and any attachments are confidential and should only be read by those to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact us, delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. Any distribution or copying without our prior permission is prohibited. Internet communications are not always secure and therefore the PowerGen Group does not accept legal responsibility for this message. The recipient is responsible for verifying its authenticity before acting on the contents. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the PowerGen Group. Power Technology: Telephone +44 (0) 115 936 2000 Fax +44 (0) 115 936 2711 E-mail techinfo@powertech.co.uk www http://www.powertech.co.uk PowerGen UK plc Registered Office: 53 New Broad Street London EC2M 1SL Registered in England and Wales No: 2366970 ********************************************************************** From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Aug 17 08:18:31 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: On being ripped off Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB072@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Merle K. Peirce wrote: > > > > I've got a wonderful bag of tricks. E-mail me off-list. > > > > In Rhode Island, it's traditional to hire professionals to counsel the > > offender and secure satisfaction. They're called hitmen. > > It's not like he bilked Jim out of hundreds of thousands of dollars or > banged his wife. We're only talking a couple hundred bucks. A potato up > the tailpipe and some sugar in the gas tank is more in order. Oh, I think I'd go one step further, and put this guy on mailing lists (snailmail) for everything on the planet, goal being that the mailman leaves an entire bag on his doorstep every day. Might also want to sign him up for membership in the Man-and-Boy Society or whatever that sicko organization is called... heh... -dq From nbsdbob at weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 17 09:13:18 2000 From: nbsdbob at weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (NetBSD Bob) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Compaq sets final order dates for VAXen. In-Reply-To: <13571942394.17.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at "Aug 16, 2000 01:26:13 pm" Message-ID: <200008171413.KAA24577@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> > VAX 4000, MicroVAX 3100, and all associated options are being retired. > Final order date is September 30,2000. > The last ship date will be Dec 31,2000. > > http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/vax/vax_dates.html > > The VAX is dead. Long Live the VAX! Nah, it will live on for a long time.... But, for the sake of discussion, would this free up machines for us to play with? I would expect that once it is officially dropped, folks will be avoiding them like the plague. Mebbie that will free some up from the cloistered shadows for NetBSD use? Bob From nbsdbob at weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu Thu Aug 17 09:22:31 2000 From: nbsdbob at weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (NetBSD Bob) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Compaq sets final order dates for VAXen. In-Reply-To: <200008171413.KAA24577@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> from NetBSD Bob at "Aug 17, 2000 10:13:18 am" Message-ID: <200008171422.KAA24615@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> > > VAX 4000, MicroVAX 3100, and all associated options are being retired. > > Final order date is September 30,2000. > > The last ship date will be Dec 31,2000. > > > > http://www.compaq.com/alphaserver/vax/vax_dates.html > > > > The VAX is dead. Long Live the VAX! > > Nah, it will live on for a long time.... But, for the sake of discussion, > would this free up machines for us to play with? I would expect that once > it is officially dropped, folks will be avoiding them like the plague. > Mebbie that will free some up from the cloistered shadows for NetBSD use? For the sake of discussion, and preservation.... anyone at Compaq have any spare hardware manuals that they could make available or add to what already exists, online here and there? Hardware manuals are always what I never seem to be able to find. Collectively, we should gather the info up, before it becomes vaporware unobtainium. Bob From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Aug 17 16:11:18 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: Compaq sets final order dates for VAXen. In-Reply-To: <200008171413.KAA24577@weedcon1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> from "NetBSD Bob" at Aug 17, 2000 10:13:18 AM Message-ID: <200008172111.OAA21075@shell1.aracnet.com> > Nah, it will live on for a long time.... But, for the sake of discussion, > would this free up machines for us to play with? I would expect that once > it is officially dropped, folks will be avoiding them like the plague. > Mebbie that will free some up from the cloistered shadows for NetBSD use? > > Bob Actually I'm suspecting that it might have the opposite effect, make it harder to get them, at least the decent systems. Those that still need the systems will be searching that much harder for good used systems. Remember not everyone can move to Alpha-based OpenVMS systems, either because of odd-ball hardware widgets, or software that isn't available on the Alpha and can't be VEST'd. For example, as just came up on comp.os.vms, if you're dependent on the old VMS CAI software for some reason, you're stuck on VAX. It'll be just like on the PDP-11 where some stuff is easy to get and no one wants, other stuff is much sought after commerically. Zane From r.stek at snet.net Thu Aug 17 18:55:10 2000 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:51 2005 Subject: sad auction story AND On being ripped off AND sad auction story #2 Message-ID: Interestingly enough I was one of the bidders for the Sorcerer who lost out to Jim (I was on vacation and didn't have my "regular" access to eBay, etc.), so there but for the grace of God go I.... (and I only lost out by a few bucks, too!) On 8-11 I won a bid for a used HP 360lx (payment was paypal only - in retrospect, the first clue. The second was that this was an eBay newbie with 0 feedback). Since I had been monitoring the bid closely I knew I had won and did not wait for the email from eBay stating "Congrats ... contact each other, etc.") The seller's id was an obvious email address (jl_06_02@yahoo.com) and I went directly to paypal, found that the seller did have that email address registered with them, so I sent off the winning bid plus the requested $5 shipping. The paypal account was an "unverified" account (i.e., paypal had not yet received a bank account number for direct deposit, rather they would issue a paypal check to the account holder). As I usually do, I then verified by looking at the history that (1)indeed my credit card had been charged, and that (2) notification of payment had been sent to jl_06_02@yahoo.com. Fine, so far. Later the next day I received from paypal a "request for payment" from jl; the amount was just for the winning bid and did not include the $5 shipping. I figured that ol' jl hadn't read his email yet to see the confirmation from paypal that I had already paid. So I therefore replied to jl with a cut n' pasted copy of the duplicate confirmation I had received via email from paypal which stated that the amount of the bid plus $5 had been paid. I also went to paypal.com and saw his request in my account, so I cancelled it; my original payment transactions were still there. Later I received an email from jl (same email address as we had started off with) saying "What? You were supposed to pay my request." I then emailed a reply back explaining more clearly what had happened, and requesting that jl check again with paypal and he would see that the transaction had already gone through, and to get back to me if there were any problems. On 8-14 I emailed jl again, requesting an update on what had happened: did he get the money, was he shipping the package, etc. Later in the day I get a message back from the yahoo email server stating that the message could not be delivered. Now I began to get worried. I logged into yahoo and did a search for jl_06_02 - the search came back empty. I logged onto eBay into their dispute resolution section, and giving my logon and pwd and the item # (404256646 for those nosey enough to look for themselves), I was able to obtain the "real" name, address, and phone # of jl_06_02@yahoo.com with instructions to contact the person directly before claiming fraud. I placed a phone call to said # and eventually spoke to a nice lady who denied offering the item for bid, and stated that she indeed had just recently become an ebay member but that her email address was different, but that her street address, name (was Jxxx Lxxxxx) and phone number were correct. She also became concerned that someone was using her name and # this way, and denied being contacted by paypal. I also went back to paypal to review my history again. The first item - the charge to my credit card was still there and complete (and I also verified with my cc company that a charge had been made), but the other two transactions - the receipt of payment to jl and the cancellation of jl's request - no longer had valid links to the information. Instead I got an error message "internal server error" rather than the confirmations I had seen a day or two previously! Oh what a tangle web we weave.... I both emailed and called paypal who told me that their fraud unit would contact me. I emailed both eBay and yahoo - neither of which has responded yet (other than ebay keeping track of the dispute resolution process). I just asked yahoo to confirm that they recently had a member with that email address, though I did also explain the entire situation. I now send out a call for rank amateur speculation from the members of this list. My current theory is that someone at paypal, acting alone or in concert with someone at eBay may be trying some fraudulent scheme - that is based solely on the "internal server error" because immediately after the transaction, the information was there. Who would have a better chance of access to PayPal transactions other than someone at PayPal? Either someone at eBay or one of the real Jxxx Lxxxxx's 3 previous ebay transactions would have access to her real name, address and phone number - the same way I did. Anyone wishing to posit a more benign explanation is free to do so. (One of my favorite sayings, however, is "never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.") (BTW, I am on digest, so I won't see any responses until after the next digest unless you cc me.) Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From gregorym at cadvision.com Thu Aug 17 20:28:23 2000 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone References: Message-ID: <000901c008b3$abaa3240$5e93fea9@hal90002> Found something cool in the thrift shop that I've never seen before - a Northern Telecom Displayphone (model NT6K00AM), ca. 1984. It seems to be an early attempt at computer/telephone integration - basically a data terminal integrated with a telephone. There's a very clear, legible screen, a full keyboard that hides in the main unit, and really nice touch-sensitive controls for the phone functions. On the back are an RS-232C port and a parallel port. Can anybody tell me more about this system, and how they were used? A Web-search using several engines and a dejanews search yielded nothing useful. The Nortel Website doesn't even admit this phone ever existed. Cheers, Mark Gregory From rich at alcor.concordia.ca Thu Aug 17 20:54:46 2000 From: rich at alcor.concordia.ca (Rich Lafferty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone In-Reply-To: <000901c008b3$abaa3240$5e93fea9@hal90002>; from gregorym@cadvision.com on Thu, Aug 17, 2000 at 07:28:23PM -0600 References: <000901c008b3$abaa3240$5e93fea9@hal90002> Message-ID: <20000817215446.C28195@alcor.concordia.ca> On Thu, Aug 17, 2000 at 07:28:23PM -0600, Mark Gregory (gregorym@cadvision.com) wrote: > Found something cool in the thrift shop that I've never seen before - a > Northern Telecom Displayphone (model NT6K00AM), ca. 1984. Should you decide not to keep it, please let me know. I've been passively looking for one of those for some time. > It seems to be an early attempt at computer/telephone integration - > basically a data terminal integrated with a telephone. There's a very clear, > legible screen, a full keyboard that hides in the main unit, and really nice > touch-sensitive controls for the phone functions. On the back are an RS-232C > port and a parallel port. > > Can anybody tell me more about this system, and how they were used? They never made it a *whole* lot further than a demonstration. The idea behind them was exactly as you imagine -- various BBS-ish stuff available online -- think old Compuserve -- plus local stuff like a memo facility, phone directory (possibly shared throughout an organization), electronic mail, and so forth. It was just a little too far out at the time to see much use. Does yours use regular, home-type phone jacks, or centronics-ish old Meridian PBX connections? The only one I ever saw outside of a Northern Telecom booth (no Nortel back then!) was on the kitchen counter of a friend who worked at Northern in Belleville, Ontario. She used it as a phone with a big autodial directory, and to keep track of recipes. :-) > Web-search using several engines and a dejanews search yielded nothing > useful. The Nortel Website doesn't even admit this phone ever existed. Do they admit that "Northern Telecom" existed? :-) -Rich -- ------------------------------ Rich Lafferty --------------------------- Sysadmin/Programmer, Instructional and Information Technology Services Concordia University, Montreal, QC (514) 848-7625 ------------------------- rich@alcor.concordia.ca ---------------------- From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Thu Aug 17 21:00:34 2000 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Kevin Stumpf/Nostalgic Technophile/Unusual Systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone References: <000901c008b3$abaa3240$5e93fea9@hal90002> Message-ID: <00b701c008b8$1c68aa80$b1bbe2d1@kstumpf> As I remember the Displayphone it was designed for the hurried executive who needed both dumb/text terminal access to the corporate information system and a telephone on his or her desk, but couldn't afford to have both so voila le Displayphone. There was also a second model called the Displayphone 2000 although one can't easily tell the difference by an exterior examination. Yours in good faith. Kevin Stumpf - The Nostalgic Technophile - Unusual Systems www.nostalgictechnophile.com - 519.744.2900 EST/EDT (GMT - 5) ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Gregory To: Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 9:28 PM Subject: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone > Found something cool in the thrift shop that I've never seen before - a > Northern Telecom Displayphone (model NT6K00AM), ca. 1984. > > It seems to be an early attempt at computer/telephone integration - > basically a data terminal integrated with a telephone. There's a very clear, > legible screen, a full keyboard that hides in the main unit, and really nice > touch-sensitive controls for the phone functions. On the back are an RS-232C > port and a parallel port. > > Can anybody tell me more about this system, and how they were used? A > Web-search using several engines and a dejanews search yielded nothing > useful. The Nortel Website doesn't even admit this phone ever existed. > > Cheers, > Mark Gregory > From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 17 21:03:39 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone In-Reply-To: <000901c008b3$abaa3240$5e93fea9@hal90002> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Mark Gregory wrote: > Found something cool in the thrift shop that I've never seen before - a > Northern Telecom Displayphone (model NT6K00AM), ca. 1984. > > Can anybody tell me more about this system, and how they were used? A > Web-search using several engines and a dejanews search yielded nothing > useful. The Nortel Website doesn't even admit this phone ever existed. I got one of these about 8 years ago, but without the power supply so I was never able to fire it up. It's basically a Nortel digital telephone set and a terminal running an address book program. There's nothing terribly special about it, other than it looks really cool (which is why I bought mine :) I paid $25 for it at WeirdStuff in Sunnyvale. My investment would've been better spent on the two Lisa 2's they had sitting in a junk heap ;) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 17 21:06:07 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone In-Reply-To: <20000817215446.C28195@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Rich Lafferty wrote: > On Thu, Aug 17, 2000 at 07:28:23PM -0600, Mark Gregory (gregorym@cadvision.com) wrote: > > Found something cool in the thrift shop that I've never seen before - a > > Northern Telecom Displayphone (model NT6K00AM), ca. 1984. > > Should you decide not to keep it, please let me know. I've been > passively looking for one of those for some time. Coincidentally, there's another one sitting in WeirdStuff right now, but I think it's got a $50 price tag on it (way too much, as is the case with most of their stuff). It's in good condition though. But I'm sure the power supply has been separated from it. > The only one I ever saw outside of a Northern Telecom booth (no Nortel > back then!) was on the kitchen counter of a friend who worked at > Northern in Belleville, Ontario. She used it as a phone with a big > autodial directory, and to keep track of recipes. :-) Neat. I knew it did more than just phone functions. I wish I could get mine working. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From gregorym at cadvision.com Thu Aug 17 21:58:07 2000 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone References: <000901c008b3$abaa3240$5e93fea9@hal90002> <20000817215446.C28195@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <001101c008c0$23677660$5e93fea9@hal90002> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich Lafferty" To: "Mark Gregory" Cc: Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2000 7:54 PM Subject: Re: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone > On Thu, Aug 17, 2000 at 07:28:23PM -0600, Mark Gregory (gregorym@cadvision.com) wrote: > > Found something cool in the thrift shop that I've never seen before - a > > Northern Telecom Displayphone (model NT6K00AM), ca. 1984. > > Should you decide not to keep it, please let me know. I've been > passively looking for one of those for some time. > I think I'd like to add it to my collection, but I'll keep you in mind if I ever have to cull the herd again. > > Does yours use regular, home-type phone jacks, or centronics-ish old > Meridian PBX connections? > Mine uses normal home phone jacks. Best of all, everything (at least the phone functions)still seems to work . I'll post some pictures once I get my Website up. >>The Nortel Website doesn't even admit this phone ever existed. > > Do they admit that "Northern Telecom" existed? :-) > Barely ... its funny how some organizations (like IBM) have very long institutional memories, while others (Nortel, Sony) act like anything that happened before last Tuesday is ancient history. There's a large Nortel presence here in Calgary, so I suspect this phone came from some Northern Telecom'ers basement or den. Maybe I'll try calling their customer support line and ask if the data services for this phone are still available... Thanks for the information. Mark. From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Aug 17 23:04:30 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone In-Reply-To: <001101c008c0$23677660$5e93fea9@hal90002>; from gregorym@cadvision.com on Thu, Aug 17, 2000 at 08:58:07PM -0600 References: <000901c008b3$abaa3240$5e93fea9@hal90002> <20000817215446.C28195@alcor.concordia.ca> <001101c008c0$23677660$5e93fea9@hal90002> Message-ID: <20000817230430.W12920@mrbill.net> On Thu, Aug 17, 2000 at 08:58:07PM -0600, Mark Gregory wrote: > There's a large Nortel presence here in Calgary, so I suspect this phone > came from some Northern Telecom'ers basement or den. Maybe I'll try calling > their customer support line and ask if the data services for this phone are > still available... > Thanks for the information. > Mark. I seem to remember Damark (or some similar catalog) selling off a bunch of these around 10 years ago... I remember that the keyboard wasnt "normal" tho - it was more chiclet-type with small round keys than anything else. Is this what you've got? bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From frustum at pacbell.net Thu Aug 17 23:57:49 2000 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: sad auction story AND On being ripped off AND sad auction story #2 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000817215205.00aea690@pacbell.net> At 07:55 PM 8/17/00 -0400, you wrote: >Interestingly enough I was one of the bidders for the Sorcerer who lost out >to Jim (I was on vacation and didn't have my "regular" access to eBay, >etc.), so there but for the grace of God go I.... (and I only lost out by a >few bucks, too!) My bid was $256, I think. But due to the proxy bid scheme, it only looks like you lost by $5. [ Bob's own sorry tale elided ... ] In the words of a great philosopher :-), I feel your pain. Shouldn't paypal be able to tell you what address they sent the money to? Start praying that it isn't a P.O. box. ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Aug 18 01:27:30 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: obselete diskettes Message-ID: <200008180627.AAA24783@calico.litterbox.com> Whilst shopping for chair mats, my wife stumbled across an office supply web site which, among other things, sells 8 inch floppies, ds-dd 5.25 inch floppies , 5.25 inch hd floppies, and 3.5 inch ds-dd floppies. The site is: http://www.atyouroffice.com Thought y'all might want to know. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Fri Aug 18 08:02:50 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Mark Gregory wrote: > > > Found something cool in the thrift shop that I've never seen before - a > > Northern Telecom Displayphone (model NT6K00AM), ca. 1984. > > > > Can anybody tell me more about this system, and how they were used? A > > Web-search using several engines and a dejanews search yielded nothing > > useful. The Nortel Website doesn't even admit this phone ever existed. I have a similar kind of thing, make in the UK by ICL. It's optimistically called a "One Per Desk" and is based on the Sinclair QL (68008). It can connect to two phone lines and has a built-in modem and a telephone handset. It can't operate as a telephone answering machine, though, because at the time (1983?) only British Telecom were allowed to do that. The computer section has the inevitable phone number database and auto-dialler, but is limited by its reliance on Sinclair Micro-Drives (tape loop cartridges). And just to link this to the SMPSU thread, this was the machine whose PSU split a transistor in half. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Aug 18 09:37:52 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Thoughts on a datascope Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000818073752.0097c4a0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Fellow classiccmp'ers, I have an interesting situation here. It's a 12-year old datascope, made by Atlantic Research (their 'Interview 7500'). I had it apart last night to clean the innards and replace a noisy fan, and I was struck by how beautifully made it was. Fully modularized, plasma display up front, dual floppies, and the entire case made out of that heavy resin-style plastic, sprayed on the inside with conductive coat for shielding. And yet, in the midst of all that gorgeous engineering, there was one fly in the ointment. The unit boots and runs off an ancient Kyocera(!) 20 meg MFM hard drive, run from a dedicated controller port on one of the boards. Now, I know darn good and well that older hard drives tend to be pretty rugged, especially the lower densities. However, I have no backups, floppy or otherwise, for the unit's OS, and I've not had any luck so far finding boot/run floppies for it. I'm fortunate in that it's still working quite well, but I'm also painfully aware that I might be running on borrowed time. Inrange Technology bought out AR's entire line of datascopes, and I do have an inquiry going with them. However, I'm not holding my breath due to the age of the unit. The core CPU in the unit is a Motorola 68010, so it's a pretty safe bet that the OS is not DOS-based. This means the hard drive would likely be unreadable to a PC if hitched, say, to a WD MFM board. Any thoughts on how I can back this beastie up? Anyone done anything with this line of datascope? Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From Mzthompson at aol.com Fri Aug 18 10:10:56 2000 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: DEC documentation available Message-ID: With regards to the list of books I posted on 8/16, the following titles have all been spoken for. DEQNA Ethernet User's Guide DHQ11 User Guide VT220 Owner's Manual Mike From ghldbrd at ccp.com Fri Aug 18 16:03:00 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone In-Reply-To: <000901c008b3$abaa3240$5e93fea9@hal90002> Message-ID: Hello Mark On 17-Aug-00, you wrote: > Found something cool in the thrift shop that I've never seen before - a > Northern Telecom Displayphone (model NT6K00AM), ca. 1984. > > It seems to be an early attempt at computer/telephone integration - > basically a data terminal integrated with a telephone. There's a very clear, > legible screen, a full keyboard that hides in the main unit, and really nice > touch-sensitive controls for the phone functions. On the back are an RS-232C > port and a parallel port. > > Can anybody tell me more about this system, and how they were used? A > Web-search using several engines and a dejanews search yielded nothing > useful. The Nortel Website doesn't even admit this phone ever existed. > > Cheers, > Mark Gregory Sounds quite similar to my GTE XT300 telephone/terminal in concept. Wish it still worked, but the thing got hit by Mother Nature's fireworks . . . . wonder if they could be the same? Mine has a 9" b&w CRT display, a smallish keyboard, and a built-in 300 baud modem. The telephone part is set up for two lines, but you can change it to one. the whole thing looks like a shrunken terminal. > > Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From rivie at teraglobal.com Fri Aug 18 10:35:07 2000 From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Thoughts on a datascope In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000818073752.0097c4a0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20000818073752.0097c4a0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: Bruce Lane wrote: > And yet, in the midst of all that gorgeous engineering, there >was one fly >in the ointment. The unit boots and runs off an ancient Kyocera(!) 20 meg >MFM hard drive, run from a dedicated controller port on one of the boards. [[[ snip ]]] > The core CPU in the unit is a Motorola 68010, so it's a pretty safe bet >that the OS is not DOS-based. This means the hard drive would likely be >unreadable to a PC if hitched, say, to a WD MFM board. There is actually some hope here. The disk format used by WD was fairly widely accepted and lots of people made controllers that were compatible with WD's format. There are exceptions, of course. Adaptec did their own thing, so disks written by a controller built around Adaptec's chips can't be read by a WD controller. DEC's DECmate II and RQDX1 controllers were hand-built from lots o' logic, and were also incompatible with WD's format. -- Roger Ivie rivie@teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Aug 18 11:46:27 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: sad auction story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I placed a phone call to said # and eventually spoke to a nice lady who >denied offering the item for bid, and stated that she indeed had just >recently become an ebay member but that her email address was different, but >that her street address, name (was Jxxx Lxxxxx) and phone number were Find out if the nice lady has family members with access to the account. Do a DejaNews search on the email address, that might show alternate activity than the lady you spoke to. Call your credit card and tell them the charge was bad. Always handle zero feedback people with care. From cisin at xenosoft.com Fri Aug 18 11:10:05 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: obselete diskettes In-Reply-To: <200008180627.AAA24783@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: > Whilst shopping for chair mats, my wife stumbled across an office supply web > site which, among other things, sells 8 inch floppies, ds-dd 5.25 inch floppies > , 5.25 inch hd floppies, and 3.5 inch ds-dd floppies. > The site is: > http://www.atyouroffice.com > Thought y'all might want to know. Thanks for the URL for the disks that we currently use. But do they have any OBSOLETE ones? (single sided 8"? hard sectored 8"? hard sectored 5.25"? 2.5"? 3"? 3.25"? 3.9"?) or any of the OLD types? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From pat at transarc.ibm.com Fri Aug 18 11:34:00 2000 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: sad auction story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > [...] Call your credit card and tell them the charge > was bad. Except that, when you sign up for PayPal, they make you promise that you will never dispute a charge made through PayPal - *ever*. If you dispute a charge, they kick you off of PayPal. --Pat. From red at bears.org Fri Aug 18 11:42:41 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: sad auction story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Pat Barron wrote: > Except that, when you sign up for PayPal, they make you promise that you > will never dispute a charge made through PayPal - *ever*. If you dispute > a charge, they kick you off of PayPal. I KNEW there was a reason I didn't ever want to use PayPal, tempting though it has been on occasion. What a stupid concept! ok r. From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 18 11:57:16 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: sad auction story References: Message-ID: <399D6AEC.B8647B4E@rain.org> "r. 'bear' stricklin" wrote: > > On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Pat Barron wrote: > > > Except that, when you sign up for PayPal, they make you promise that you > > will never dispute a charge made through PayPal - *ever*. If you dispute > > a charge, they kick you off of PayPal. > > I KNEW there was a reason I didn't ever want to use PayPal, tempting > though it has been on occasion. > > What a stupid concept! Almost as stupid as sending a check, ... or a money order, ... or a cashiers check. Hey, why buy anything since there are always risks involved. From lionelp at worldonline.co.za Mon Aug 14 17:41:42 2000 From: lionelp at worldonline.co.za (Lionel Pinkhard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: 8086 Emulation In-Reply-To: <556.263T1755T7173179rachael_@gmx.net> Message-ID: Thanks a lot! I haven't gotten MESS yet, but I'll let you know if I need info. Thanks again! :-) On Wed, 16 Aug 2000, Jacob Dahl Pind wrote: > >Emulation of the IBM ROM BASIC, and IBM ROM BIOS, is also greatly desired, > >although, I am not sure whether these can be legally copied :-). Emulation > If you need rom dump of those rom, I can help you as I still have my Ibm pc. > > Regards Jacob Dahl Pind > > > Public Pgp key available on request > -------------------------------------------------- > = IF this computer is with us now... = > =...It must have been meant to come live with us.= > = (Belldandy - Goddess First class) = > -------------------------------------------------- > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Aug 18 12:57:17 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: obselete diskettes In-Reply-To: References: <200008180627.AAA24783@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: >> Whilst shopping for chair mats, my wife stumbled across an office supply web >> site which, among other things, sells 8 inch floppies, ds-dd 5.25 inch >>floppies >> , 5.25 inch hd floppies, and 3.5 inch ds-dd floppies. >> The site is: >> http://www.atyouroffice.com >> Thought y'all might want to know. > >Thanks for the URL for the disks that we currently use. >But do they have any OBSOLETE ones? >(single sided 8"? >hard sectored 8"? >hard sectored 5.25"? >2.5"? >3"? >3.25"? >3.9"?) >or any of the OLD types? > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com This really begs for people to post a WANT LIST, perhaps with info in a faq on how one might decide a disc is this or that kind. I have about 150 8" floppies, and maybe 1000 5.25", but haven't had much interest on this list so they are part of my fast track to ebay item list. And no I don't really know what kind they are, I suspect all kinds. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 18 11:58:01 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: obselete diskettes Message-ID: Yes, hard-sectored would be nice... preferably 32 sectors.. But that's just because both my Wang 2200MVP and my Burroughs B80 take hard-sectored 8" floppies... Could also use some TEAC 60MB cassette-type tapes, umm something-or-other 300 maybe? They fit this weird SCSI drive I have, they are *not* audio cassettes though... Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From lionelp at worldonline.co.za Mon Aug 14 18:01:00 2000 From: lionelp at worldonline.co.za (Lionel Pinkhard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: MESS trouble Message-ID: Hey guys, I'm trying to download MESS (using wget), but it looks like the site doesn't support resuming, and it keeps disconnecting me, does somebody know of an alternative site? Ciao, Lionel From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Aug 18 12:27:54 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Nice ATARI resurce In-Reply-To: References: <20000817215446.C28195@alcor.concordia.ca> Message-ID: <399D8E3A.29062.47A10AD6@localhost> Just found on /. : http://www.willowsp.u-net.com/andy/atari/ Some guy did setup a lot of old time Atari documentation. Only the index pafge is text, all scaned documents are JPEGs. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Fri Aug 18 12:32:40 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Blinkenlights Rescue in AZ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000801c0093a$4f8abf20$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Hi, I've saved this item from the Junkheap. http://users.sedona.net/~mccloud/comput.jpg It seems to have no less than three 19" panels with a full compliment of lights and switches. Also there is a fully populated card bay and a large, well labelled, but unusual power supply. It is claimed to be from the private collection of a ex-Los Alamos Engineer. I got it in 1 bid on eBay so the price is as low as it could get. It's all up to this now: Location(Red Rocks/Phoenix) If you want to pick them up, they're yours. Let me know. John A. From bills at adrenaline.com Fri Aug 18 12:39:44 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: obselete diskettes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > This really begs for people to post a WANT LIST, perhaps with > info in a faq on how one might decide a disc is this or that kind. WANTED: 5 1/4" hard sectored, NorthStar compatible diskettes. Available for trade: 8" hard sectored, Wang compatible diskettes. Old, but still in original shrink wrap. Available for trade: 3M 8" cleaning diskette kits. Old, but still in original shrink wrap. Avaialble for trade: Tons of 5 1/4" DSDD soft sectored diskettes. Some "Old, but...", some used, many makes. Bill Sudbrink bills@adrenaline.com From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Aug 18 12:47:12 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: obselete diskettes In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Aug 18, 2000 09:57:17 am" Message-ID: <200008181747.MAA25680@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > >> Whilst shopping for chair mats, my wife stumbled across an office supply web > >> site which, among other things, sells 8 inch floppies, ds-dd 5.25 inch > >>floppies > >> , 5.25 inch hd floppies, and 3.5 inch ds-dd floppies. > >> The site is: > >> http://www.atyouroffice.com > >> Thought y'all might want to know. > > > >Thanks for the URL for the disks that we currently use. > >But do they have any OBSOLETE ones? > >(single sided 8"? > >hard sectored 8"? > >hard sectored 5.25"? > >2.5"? > >3"? > >3.25"? > >3.9"?) > >or any of the OLD types? > > > >-- > >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > This really begs for people to post a WANT LIST, perhaps with info in a faq > on how one might decide a disc is this or that kind. I have about 150 8" > floppies, and maybe 1000 5.25", but haven't had much interest on this list > so they are part of my fast track to ebay item list. And no I don't really > know what kind they are, I suspect all kinds. > And I must have about 800 SSSD 8" floppies, used, in some dumb word processing format. i need to get them reformated someday. Probably to RX01 format. -Lawrence LeMay From hofmanwb at worldonline.nl Fri Aug 18 12:12:22 2000 From: hofmanwb at worldonline.nl (W.B.(Wim) Hofman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: PDP-11 paper tape tests manuals Message-ID: <20000818180449.B78A736BE2@pandora.worldonline.nl> Does anybody know where on the net I can find PDP-11 paper tape test manuals for an 11/24? This is part of an effort to keep the machine in production for another say 5 years. Thanks in advance Wim Hofman From vaxman at uswest.net Fri Aug 18 13:14:55 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: sad auction story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: PayPal is no different from sending a check or money order. Once a check has been cashed, you have NO recourse short of litigation. I like paypal because the transaction happens immediately. The seller can claim he hasn't received the money, but you have the paypal report to prove you sent it. This lets you file a fraud report (and insurance claim) that much sooner. clint On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, r. 'bear' stricklin wrote: > On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Pat Barron wrote: > > > Except that, when you sign up for PayPal, they make you promise that you > > will never dispute a charge made through PayPal - *ever*. If you dispute > > a charge, they kick you off of PayPal. > > I KNEW there was a reason I didn't ever want to use PayPal, tempting > though it has been on occasion. > > What a stupid concept! > > ok > r. > > > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Aug 18 13:00:03 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: sad auction story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Mike Ford wrote: >> [...] Call your credit card and tell them the charge >> was bad. > >Except that, when you sign up for PayPal, they make you promise that you >will never dispute a charge made through PayPal - *ever*. If you dispute >a charge, they kick you off of PayPal. Then I would get seriously onto PayPals back to resolve the issue, and if not satisfied then dispute the charge anyway. PayPal isn't worth $207. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 18 12:34:46 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone In-Reply-To: from "John Honniball" at Aug 18, 0 02:02:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1064 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000818/233aec94/attachment.ksh From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Aug 18 14:28:55 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: On the subject of freakish telecom shtuff.. Message-ID: Well, last weekend I rescued a "Telecompaq"... I've been able to learn next to nothing other than that A) it was a flop B) it's a pc with integrated telephony stuff (the keyboard even has an "email" key) C) it dates to about 1985 D) AT&T sold it as the Watson, and E) there is zippo info on the net.. Altavista gave me a whopping 5 hits! Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From donm at cts.com Fri Aug 18 14:41:43 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: obselete diskettes In-Reply-To: <200008180627.AAA24783@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Jim Strickland wrote: Speaking of floppies, I have a carton of 1000 5.25" HD floppies in packs of 50 disks which I offer at $5.50/pack mailed. I will also entertain offers for the entire carton. - don > Whilst shopping for chair mats, my wife stumbled across an office supply web > site which, among other things, sells 8 inch floppies, ds-dd 5.25 inch floppies > , 5.25 inch hd floppies, and 3.5 inch ds-dd floppies. > > The site is: > > http://www.atyouroffice.com > > > Thought y'all might want to know. > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From mbg at world.std.com Fri Aug 18 14:13:24 2000 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: sad auction story References: Message-ID: <200008181913.PAA03688@world.std.com> >> What a stupid concept! > >Almost as stupid as sending a check, ... or a money order, ... or a >cashiers check. Hey, why buy anything since there are always risks >involved. Yes, but unlike paypal, you can still dispute a payment using the other methods and still be able to use them. What paypal does with that requirement is remove any recourse a person has... Kind of like the HMOs trying to limit our rights to sue them... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From marvin at rain.org Fri Aug 18 15:13:03 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: sad auction story References: <200008181913.PAA03688@world.std.com> Message-ID: <399D98CF.598B6F45@rain.org> Megan wrote: > > >> What a stupid concept! > > > >Almost as stupid as sending a check, ... or a money order, ... or a > >cashiers check. Hey, why buy anything since there are always risks > >involved. > > Yes, but unlike paypal, you can still dispute a payment using the > other methods and still be able to use them. What paypal does with > that requirement is remove any recourse a person has... Paypal is a means of payment just like a money order or cashiers check. It is not in the business of arbitration. The means of payment is separate from the transaction itself ... as it should be. This type of transaction gone bad is probably something Yahoo should get involved with. If you mail off a check to someone and it appears that fraud is involved, you don't really think the bank will get involved do you? From lionelp at worldonline.co.za Mon Aug 14 20:20:54 2000 From: lionelp at worldonline.co.za (Lionel Pinkhard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Nixdorf Computer - unknown model Message-ID: Hey guys, I was wondering: Can you guys help me determine what kind of computer I have here? I got this old system from a friend, without any documentation, when I switch it on, all it does is give me a white screen, and it says: Top of screen: SYSTEM 886SX SAP VERSION: SAPPRO 10.10 Bottom of screen: MWSS:XB99 LINK:02 LINE:01 R---- S ('S' is flashing) OFFLINE Is this enough to identify it? It seems enough, but I have no idea what it is. Nor how to use it. Secondly, if you know what it is, can you try to tell me where I can get some info on how it works? Or a brief explanation? Thanks in advance, Lionel Pinkhard From donm at cts.com Fri Aug 18 16:19:18 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: obselete diskettes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > Whilst shopping for chair mats, my wife stumbled across an office supply web > > site which, among other things, sells 8 inch floppies, ds-dd 5.25 inch floppies > > , 5.25 inch hd floppies, and 3.5 inch ds-dd floppies. > > The site is: > > http://www.atyouroffice.com > > Thought y'all might want to know. > > Thanks for the URL for the disks that we currently use. > But do they have any OBSOLETE ones? > (single sided 8"? > hard sectored 8"? > hard sectored 5.25"? You might check www.cadigital.com for the 10 & 16 sector 5.25" disks. They are a bit pricey at $13.95 per box (10?), but they are available. - don > 2.5"? > 3"? > 3.25"? > 3.9"?) > or any of the OLD types? > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > From donm at cts.com Fri Aug 18 16:23:19 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: obselete diskettes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Will Jennings wrote: > Yes, hard-sectored would be nice... preferably 32 sectors.. But that's just > because both my Wang 2200MVP and my Burroughs B80 take hard-sectored 8" > floppies... Could also use some TEAC 60MB cassette-type tapes, umm Are those like the Maxell CS-600HD cassettes? I have a box of ten of them available. - don > something-or-other 300 maybe? They fit this weird SCSI drive I have, they > are *not* audio cassettes though... > > Will J > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > From jpdavis at gorge.net Fri Aug 18 18:58:42 2000 From: jpdavis at gorge.net (Jim Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: sad auction story References: <200008181913.PAA03688@world.std.com> <399D98CF.598B6F45@rain.org> Message-ID: <399DCDB2.12FA1118@gorge.net> Contact the CC issuer and send a letter to same. You do have recourse. Jim Davis Marvin wrote: > > Megan wrote: > > > > >> What a stupid concept! > > > > > >Almost as stupid as sending a check, ... or a money order, ... or a > > >cashiers check. Hey, why buy anything since there are always risks > > >involved. > > > > Yes, but unlike paypal, you can still dispute a payment using the > > other methods and still be able to use them. What paypal does with > > that requirement is remove any recourse a person has... > > Paypal is a means of payment just like a money order or cashiers check. It > is not in the business of arbitration. The means of payment is separate from > the transaction itself ... as it should be. This type of transaction gone > bad is probably something Yahoo should get involved with. If you mail off a > check to someone and it appears that fraud is involved, you don't really > think the bank will get involved do you? From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Aug 18 18:28:36 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Looking for Cray EL92/94/J90 Message-ID: <20000818182836.X12920@mrbill.net> I'm looking for a small air-cooled Cray system to complete my collection - anybody know where I can find an EL92, EL94, or J90? (a local place has an EL94 in their "not for sale - museum", and they wont sell it at any price.. 8-( ) Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From jimoaks at one.net Fri Aug 18 18:54:19 2000 From: jimoaks at one.net (Jim Oaks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Items for Trade In-Reply-To: <20000818182836.X12920@mrbill.net> Message-ID: I've got a couple of items id like to trade. I'm looking for Amiga equipment. Here is what i got... Amiga Rom Kernal Reference Manual: Exec Amiga Rom Kernal Ref. Manual: Libraries and Devices Amiga Intuition Reference Manual Mac Performa 637cd 15" Mulitscan Mac Monitor Stylewriter 2 inkjet All the mac items work great. Comes with mouse and keyboard. Please email if you might be interested. Jim http://www.classicmag.net Preserving the Past for the Future From reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu Fri Aug 18 22:06:04 2000 From: reyes at orion.ae.utexas.edu (Reuben Reyes) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open Message-ID: If you are ever in Austin Texas you may want to check this out. RR >X-eGroups-Return: alex@goodwillcomputerworks.net >To: gwcw@egroups.com >User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 >X-Originating-IP: 204.96.175.242 >From: "Goodwill Computerworks" >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Mailing-List: list gwcw@egroups.com; contact gwcw-owner@egroups.com >Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 22:51:59 -0000 >Reply-To: gwcw-owner@egroups.com >Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open >Status: > > >Just a quick email to let you know the Goodwill Computerworks Museum >will be open beginning this Saturday, August 18th. For those of you >who haven't visited in a while, we've expanded the museum and it now >includes over 100 machines! From 1977 to recent years, from the >smallest handheld computers to a Cray EL94, we have quite an array of >computer history. > >Stop on by and have a look, and if you have any questions, comments, >or you would like to donate any items to the museum, please contact a >store associate. The museum is located in the back of the retail >store, 8701A Research Blvd., open Monday through Saturday 10-7 and >Sunday 11-7. > >Thanks for reading, and we hope you enjoy it! > > > >Community email addresses: > Subscribe: gwcw-subscribe@onelist.com > Unsubscribe: gwcw-unsubscribe@onelist.com > List owner: gwcw-owner@onelist.com > From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Aug 18 23:40:33 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: ; from reyes@orion.ae.utexas.edu on Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 09:06:04PM -0600 References: Message-ID: <20000818234033.B12920@mrbill.net> On Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 09:06:04PM -0600, Reuben Reyes wrote: > If you are ever in Austin Texas you may want to check this out. > RR I'll be taking pictures of it tomorrow with my digital camera. I want their EL94. 8-) Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Aug 19 00:13:13 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: Re: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open (Bill Bradford) References: <20000818234033.B12920@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <14750.5993.154267.759821@phaduka.neurotica.com> On August 18, Bill Bradford wrote: > On Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 09:06:04PM -0600, Reuben Reyes wrote: > > If you are ever in Austin Texas you may want to check this out. > > RR > > I'll be taking pictures of it tomorrow with my digital camera. > > I want their EL94. 8-) That kinda bothers me...Sure, an EL is no spring chicken, but it's still quite a useful (and easily runnable) machine. It shouldn't be rotting away in a museum. 1s and XMPs should be in museums...not ELs. Grr. -Dave McGuire ...with an EL94 on the way From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 19 01:53:42 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Reuben Reyes wrote: > >Just a quick email to let you know the Goodwill Computerworks Museum > >will be open beginning this Saturday, August 18th. For those of you > >who haven't visited in a while, we've expanded the museum and it now > >includes over 100 machines! From 1977 to recent years, from the > >smallest handheld computers to a Cray EL94, we have quite an array of > >computer history. How the hell does a Cray get donated to Goodwill!? What a shame. > >Stop on by and have a look, and if you have any questions, comments, > >or you would like to donate any items to the museum, please contact a > >store associate. The museum is located in the back of the retail > >store, 8701A Research Blvd., open Monday through Saturday 10-7 and > >Sunday 11-7. Goodwill should be trying to sell the items it gets to raise money for the poor rather than maintaining a computer museum. That doesn't feed & cloth people last I checked. Ridiculous. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From stuart at zen.co.uk Sat Aug 19 05:26:01 2000 From: stuart at zen.co.uk (Stu) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open References: Message-ID: <004e01c009c7$e05b5e00$220917d4@zen.co.uk> maybe they charge for admission? ----- Original Message ----- > Goodwill should be trying to sell the items it gets to raise money for the > poor rather than maintaining a computer museum. That doesn't feed & > cloth people last I checked. > > Ridiculous. > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Aug 19 06:09:46 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: ; from foo@siconic.com on Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 11:53:42PM -0700 References: Message-ID: <20000819060946.E12920@mrbill.net> On Fri, Aug 18, 2000 at 11:53:42PM -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Reuben Reyes wrote: > > >Just a quick email to let you know the Goodwill Computerworks Museum > > >will be open beginning this Saturday, August 18th. For those of you > > >who haven't visited in a while, we've expanded the museum and it now > > >includes over 100 machines! From 1977 to recent years, from the > > >smallest handheld computers to a Cray EL94, we have quite an array of > > >computer history. > How the hell does a Cray get donated to Goodwill!? What a shame. Exactly. This GWCW is the one I referred to in my earlier post. > Goodwill should be trying to sell the items it gets to raise money for the > poor rather than maintaining a computer museum. That doesn't feed & > cloth people last I checked. Actually it does sell quite a bit of items, but they keep select stuff as part of their vintage-items museum. Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Sat Aug 19 10:40:34 2000 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Kevin Stumpf/Nostalgic Technophile/Unusual Systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * References: Message-ID: <002301c009f3$d1b9ede0$58bbe2d1@kstumpf> Sellam your last comment is consistent with many other similarly 'ridiculous' (your word not mine) ones. Did you take the time to fully evaluate the potential of this endeavour? You (all) know I am all for a completely free-market approach to old computers while many on this list would prefer that vintage computer stuff was banned from ebay meaning many people still believe it is wrong to buy and sell vintage computer stuff. The thrust of their collecting efforts is to preserve the stuff, so what's the matter with what that Goodwill store helping us to preserve vintage computing equipment? What that Goodwill store is doing is a good thing for several reasons: 1..the items have been rescued and are being preserved. 2..the items are being exhibited to the public (and those of us who have tried to exhibit this stuff know how difficult it is to encourage people to take the time to come and see it), so the store is also educating the public about the technology we love so much because they have a captive audience, 3..the store is fostering the growth of our hobby which is essential for our hobby to continue and thrive 4..the store has (knowingly or not) made a strategic marketing move and will hopefully benefit by attracting more people than would ordinarily go there and the increased customer volume can boost sales (to help the needy) What appears to some to be a silly, mis-guided stunt, can be a helpful win-win-win achievement. Let's encourage the person at that store instead of complaining behind his or her back. Yours in good faith. Kevin Stumpf - The Nostalgic Technophile - Unusual Systems www.nostalgictechnophile.com - 519.744.2900 EST/EDT (GMT - 5) ----- Original Message ----- From: Sellam Ismail To: Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 2:53 AM Subject: Re: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open > On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Reuben Reyes wrote: > > > >Just a quick email to let you know the Goodwill Computerworks Museum > > >will be open beginning this Saturday, August 18th. For those of you > > >who haven't visited in a while, we've expanded the museum and it now > > >includes over 100 machines! From 1977 to recent years, from the > > >smallest handheld computers to a Cray EL94, we have quite an array of > > >computer history. > > How the hell does a Cray get donated to Goodwill!? What a shame. > > > >Stop on by and have a look, and if you have any questions, comments, > > >or you would like to donate any items to the museum, please contact a > > >store associate. The museum is located in the back of the retail > > >store, 8701A Research Blvd., open Monday through Saturday 10-7 and > > >Sunday 11-7. > > Goodwill should be trying to sell the items it gets to raise money for the > poor rather than maintaining a computer museum. That doesn't feed & > cloth people last I checked. > > Ridiculous. > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 19 11:27:52 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:52 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: <20000819060946.E12920@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, Bill Bradford wrote: > Actually it does sell quite a bit of items, but they keep select stuff > as part of their vintage-items museum. Yeah, and that select stuff could probably be selling for a goodly sum of money that will go towards their primary mission of helping people get back on their feet. Someone should write to Goodwill corporate and let them know this is going on. I'm sure it's not in their charter and I would guess they would not approve of valuable stock being retained for the enjoyment of a couple employees. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Aug 19 12:28:45 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum Pictures Message-ID: <20000819122845.A5682@mrbill.net> I just got back from the Goodwill Computerworks mentioned a couple of posts ago (its only about 1.5 miles from my house), and I took four disks full of pictures of the "Museum" with my FD-51 Mavica digital cam. Not the GREATEST pics (they're only 640x480), but you can see whats there. They wont sell the EL94 to me for any price; I offered them $1K cash on the spot. 8-( So, my search goes on. The Cray: http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-001F.JPG http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-002F.JPG http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-003F.JPG http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-004F.JPG http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-005F.JPG Unfortunately, the front cover plate wasnt donated with the machine, what they got was what you see here. A few systems they asked me to find out more details on: http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-008F.JPG "Zilog Z-80 Computer System" (or maybe it said "Development System") - anybody know any more details about this box? The guy @ GWCW said all he could find was references to the chip itself. http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-013F.JPG and http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-014F.JPG System labeled "ibex" ? They've got 2 or 3 of these, a couple still in the original boxes. The other coolest thing I saw (other than the Cray): http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk2/MVC-027F.JPG http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk2/MVC-028F.JPG A Sega Saturn *development system*. Oooh. Anyway, enjoy. Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 19 11:38:47 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: <002301c009f3$d1b9ede0$58bbe2d1@kstumpf> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, Kevin Stumpf/Nostalgic Technophile/Unusual Systems wrote: > You (all) know I am all for a completely free-market approach to old > computers while many on this list would prefer that vintage computer stuff > was banned from ebay meaning many people still believe it is wrong to buy I've never heard anyone express that desire. You must be confused. > and sell vintage computer stuff. The thrust of their collecting efforts is > to preserve the stuff, so what's the matter with what that Goodwill store > helping us to preserve vintage computing equipment? Because it's not in their charter. > What that Goodwill store is doing is a good thing for several reasons: > > 1..the items have been rescued and are being preserved. The items have been taken out of circulation, earning no revenue for Goodwill, and being kept from collectors. > 2..the items are being exhibited to the public (and those of us who have > tried to exhibit this stuff know how difficult it is to encourage people to > take the time to come and see it), so the store is also educating the public > about the technology we love so much because they have a captive audience, I think the last thing that folks going into a Goodwill store (the majority of which are there to buy items of necessity) are interested in is a computer museum. > 3..the store is fostering the growth of our hobby which is essential for our > hobby to continue and thrive If they sold those items it would do more to foster "growth" in the hobby. > 4..the store has (knowingly or not) made a strategic marketing move and will > hopefully benefit by attracting more people than would ordinarily go there > and the increased customer volume can boost sales (to help the needy) That's a big assumption. I would expect it to not make much, if any, impact on sales or patronage. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Aug 19 13:03:17 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: ; from foo@siconic.com on Sat, Aug 19, 2000 at 09:38:47AM -0700 References: <002301c009f3$d1b9ede0$58bbe2d1@kstumpf> Message-ID: <20000819130317.E5682@mrbill.net> On Sat, Aug 19, 2000 at 09:38:47AM -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I think the last thing that folks going into a Goodwill store (the > majority of which are there to buy items of necessity) are interested in > is a computer museum. Wrong. This is a "GOODWILL COMPUTERWORKS". A dedicated computer store. *ALL THEY SELL* is computers. All the computers donated to Goodwill across the state are trucked here, where if possible, they're reassembled into working boxes/parts (in the case of PCs), tested, and put out on the shelves for people to buy. 99% of the people coming in are looking for a PC, Mac, parts for same, or a printer or keyboard, etc; they've just recently opened up the "back room" with the old vintage stuff. People that go to the store *are* interested in the museum; they've been doing it to a limited extent for the past 2-3 years (as long as I've been going to the store), but have just recently gotten the room to expand it. When I spoke to one of the employees yesterday, he said that they get offered TONS more stuff that they simply dont have room for, but would love to take. I'm trying to work with them to establish another mailing list of collectors for this stuff - so that if GWCW gets offered a piece of hardware that they dont have the room for, the people on the list can then take a shot at it. If you want the "normal" GoodWill store, where you can buy clothing, coffee pots, old furnitre, etc, the newly expanded and remodeled store is about a half mile up the street. BTW, they have a web site: http://www.goodwillcomputerworks.net/ Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 19 12:36:20 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum Pictures In-Reply-To: <20000819122845.A5682@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, Bill Bradford wrote: > I just got back from the Goodwill Computerworks mentioned a couple > of posts ago (its only about 1.5 miles from my house), and I took > four disks full of pictures of the "Museum" with my FD-51 Mavica > digital cam. Not the GREATEST pics (they're only 640x480), but > you can see whats there. They're good enough to see the wonderful "DO NOT TOUCH" on each shelf. Nice. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From donm at cts.com Sat Aug 19 15:57:44 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum Pictures In-Reply-To: <20000819122845.A5682@mrbill.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, Bill Bradford wrote: > I just got back from the Goodwill Computerworks mentioned a couple > of posts ago (its only about 1.5 miles from my house), and I took > four disks full of pictures of the "Museum" with my FD-51 Mavica > digital cam. Not the GREATEST pics (they're only 640x480), but > you can see whats there. > > They wont sell the EL94 to me for any price; I offered them $1K cash > on the spot. 8-( So, my search goes on. > > The Cray: > > http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-001F.JPG > http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-002F.JPG > http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-003F.JPG > http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-004F.JPG > http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-005F.JPG > > Unfortunately, the front cover plate wasnt donated with the machine, > what they got was what you see here. > > A few systems they asked me to find out more details on: > > http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-008F.JPG > > "Zilog Z-80 Computer System" (or maybe it said "Development System") - > anybody know any more details about this box? The guy @ GWCW said all > he could find was references to the chip itself. > > http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-013F.JPG and > http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-014F.JPG > > System labeled "ibex" ? They've got 2 or 3 of these, a couple still > in the original boxes. I know of an Ibex 7202 and a 7301, both of which used 8" DSDD disks and ran CP/M. - don > The other coolest thing I saw (other than the Cray): > > http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk2/MVC-027F.JPG > http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk2/MVC-028F.JPG > > A Sega Saturn *development system*. Oooh. > > Anyway, enjoy. > > Bill > > -- > +-------------------\ /-----------------+ > | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | > | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | > | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | > +-------------------/ \-----------------+ > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Aug 19 17:05:46 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: sad auction story In-Reply-To: <399D6AEC.B8647B4E@rain.org> References: Message-ID: >Almost as stupid as sending a check, ... or a money order, ... or a cashiers >check. Hey, why buy anything since there are always risks involved. My favorite is money order to a PO box in Canada. My "actual" personal online worst, isn't that bad, or nearly as bad as deals gone sour that were local and face to face. One of my wife's old coworkers was in a serious bind and needed to rent a car for a couple days, but didn't have a credit card. He kept the car for 27 days and stiffed us for $850. From bmahoney2001 at sympatico.ca Sat Aug 19 20:05:12 2000 From: bmahoney2001 at sympatico.ca (Brian Mahoney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone References: <000901c008b3$abaa3240$5e93fea9@hal90002> <20000817215446.C28195@alcor.concordia.ca> <001101c008c0$23677660$5e93fea9@hal90002> Message-ID: <399F2EC8.F9255FDD@sympatico.ca> Just wondering if this is something like the Alex unit that I have. Also by Nortern Telecom with a ten inch display (approx.) Flipdown keyboard in front. Any Canadians will recognize the Alex name, from the ill-fated interactive phone-info net of the early '80's. All features of my Alex still work, except of course for the online stuff. What are the dimensions of your display unit? -- http://members.xoom.com/T3C/ http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/antique_computers http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ (_8^(I) From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Sat Aug 19 22:39:51 2000 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Kevin Stumpf/Nostalgic Technophile/Unusual Systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone References: <000901c008b3$abaa3240$5e93fea9@hal90002> <20000817215446.C28195@alcor.concordia.ca> <001101c008c0$23677660$5e93fea9@hal90002> <399F2EC8.F9255FDD@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <006001c00a58$50362760$58bbe2d1@kstumpf> The Alex was Canada's/Northern Tel's response to France's Minitel system. It was introduced much later than the Displayphones and was more like a terminal than a telephone with a screen/CRT. The Displayphone has a permenantly exposed (about) 5" screen, beside it is a regular telephone handset, the QWERTY keyboard is in a drawer beneath the entire unit. AT&T, ITT, Canon all had similar products for the executive who needed access to on-line systems without sacrificing desktop space. These were the first attempts at convergence. Now the Northern Telecom Meridian Version 1 was very special since it was a like a client/X-terminal with a built-in phone. The original Meridian product had Lotus Notes-type features. It was too far ahead of the market, so the inventory was bulldozed under in a land fill near Ottawa, Ontario in the 1980s. Displayphones are simply terminals and telephones in the same box so you can still easily find them. Kevin Stumpf - The Nostalgic Technophile - Unusual Systems www.nostalgictechnophile.com - 519.744.2900 EST/EDT (GMT - 5) ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Mahoney To: Sent: Saturday, August 19, 2000 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone > Just wondering if this is something like the Alex unit that I have. Also by > Nortern Telecom with a ten inch display (approx.) Flipdown keyboard in front. > Any Canadians will recognize the Alex name, from the ill-fated interactive > phone-info net of the early '80's. All features of my Alex still work, except > of course for the online stuff. > What are the dimensions of your display unit? > > -- > http://members.xoom.com/T3C/ > http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/antique_computers > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Horizon/9107/ > (_8^(I) > > From vcf at siconic.com Sun Aug 20 09:41:11 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: PayPal's New Fraud Protection Policy (fwd) Message-ID: I thought I'd forward this along since it explains PayPal's policies and is timely. It doesn't address Jim's dilemma, but it's worth a read. It has some HTML so beware. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: 20 Aug 2000 08:01:27 -0000 From: PayPal Business Account Verification To: vcf@vintage.org Subject: PayPal's New Fraud Protection Policy Dear Business Account User, Businesses who use X.com's PayPal service have asked us to clarify our new fraud protections. These safeguards were introduced last week to increase the confidence of both buyers and sellers in our payments network. We'd like to take a moment to describe these protections. Buyer Protection Guarantee For online commerce to thrive, buyers must feel safe and secure purchasing from sellers they don't know. X.com's new Buyer Protection Guarantee protects buyers who pay for goods that were never shipped. In such cases, sellers are required by law to refund the purchase. However, if the seller turns out to be fraudulent, there is often no remedy. Recent cases on eBay have demonstrated this unfortunate problem. X.com's new Buyer Protection Guarantee is simple: if a buyer pays a seller who has been Verified by X.com, then we will guarantee the buyer's money back in case the seller turns out to be fraudulent. This Guarantee is like free insurance for buyers, and will make it much more attractive for buyers to pay Verified sellers with PayPal. The verification status of any seller appears on the confirmation page before the buyer completes payment. So if you have not yet verified your account, please read how below. "Verified by X.com" is an online seal of approval that will help your business. Seller Protection Guarantee X.com also wants to protect our sellers against fraud. As you know, we have never imposed charge backs due to fraud on sellers. This is our Seller Protection Guarantee. We plan to continue this policy. However, in order for us to absorb this major source of risk and expense, we need our sellers to play by a few simple rules. Here they are: * First, starting on August 23, 2000, sellers must be Verified in order to qualify for the Seller Protection Guarantee. There is no other way for us to protect ourselves, buyers, and other PayPal users if we cannot verify the identity of sellers. This is fundamental to the integrity of our payments system. Please see below for details on how to verify your account and why we consider this process necessary. * Second, please retain reasonable proof-of-shipping. Preferably, this proof would come from a shipping service that includes date of shipment, shipping address, and a description of the merchandise whenever possible. * Third, please accept payment from only one PayPal account per purchase - do not accept multiple payments for a single item. (Payments to Business and Premier Accounts do not count against a buyer's $2,000 credit card limit, so you should always be able to sell high-dollar goods while accepting payment from one account.) * Fourth, please do not ship internationally, until X.com releases international payments (coming soon) and a list of approved countries. In addition, we are working on Seller Protection Tools that will tell sellers whether buyers are Verified and whether the buyers' requested shipping address matches their credit card billing address. Once these tools are launched (in about a month), we will be adding a fifth rule: * Only ship Unverified buyers' purchases to their credit card billing address. If the buyer is Verified, you may ship to any address. We will notify you before this rule goes into effect. As long as you abide by these rules, X.com guarantees that you will always be protected against charge backs due to fraud. How to Become "Verified" To verify your PayPal account, simply register and confirm a bank account. Just log in to www.X.com, and look for the "Add Bank Account" link in the How to Activate Your Account box. You will be able to confirm your bank account by completing a simple online process. The instructions are on the website. Why do we ask users to confirm ownership of a bank account? Because banks and other financial institutions are required by law to screen account holders. By proving ownership of a bank account, you demonstrate that you have passed this screening process and have verified your identity. In turn, this lowers our company's financial risk and allows us to guarantee you. * Please be sure to encourage all of the users you refer to PayPal to become Verified, too. As of August 23, 2000, new users will generate $5 referral bonuses for the person who referred them only when they become Verified. Keeping Your Money Safe Whenever your bank account is involved, you may be concerned about safety and security. So are we. Please rest assured that X.com will never, ever transfer money from your bank account without your permission. Regardless of any charge back decision, X.com will never transfer money out of your bank account without your explicit consent. In addition, X.com protects every account with up to $100,000 of free insurance against unauthorized transactions. And since our encryption is the safest on the Web, your financial information is completely secure. Your bank account will always remain 100% protected with X.com. * * * * * * * * * * X.com is committed to making online payments safe for both buyers and sellers, and we think that our new fraud protections help to accomplish this goal. This should encourage the growth of both the X.com payments network and your online business. Thank you for using X.com's PayPal service, the fastest and safest way to send and receive money online. Sincerely, The X.com Team www.x.com -- This email is an account status notification regarding your account with X.com's PayPal service. As a financial services company, it is occasionally necessary for X.com to email our users regarding their account status or changes in our policies. However, promotional materials from X.com will only be sent to you if you have checked the "Promotional Notifications" box on the "Preferences" page in your online user profile. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From west at tseinc.com Sun Aug 20 11:54:58 2000 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: SCSI 9-trackers available References: <3.0.5.32.20000816232113.0096fb70@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Message-ID: <007f01c00ac7$6074a240$0101a8c0@jay> You wrote... --------------- > I've just put up two SCSI 9-track tape drives (front autoloaders) on > Haggle under 'Drives.' The first one is a SCSI-SE M4 Data 9914 at: > > http://www.haggle.com/cgi/getitem.cgi?id=202390084 We used to sell the M4 9914's. I still have one in absolutely pristine condition in storage. FWIW - those drives are really nice - and rock solid stable. Jay West From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Aug 20 12:05:46 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: PayPal's New Fraud Protection Policy (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I thought I'd forward this along since it explains PayPal's policies and >is timely. It doesn't address Jim's dilemma, but it's worth a read. It Frankly I don't see it as addressing anything, but imagined fears. Proof of shipping is easy, ie priority mail does delivery confirmation for 35 cents. This doesn't do diddly though for shipping or claiming the shipped item was or is junk. From sipke at wxs.nl Sun Aug 20 14:14:14 2000 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: 4004 & 4040 Datasheets Message-ID: <04be01c00ada$d5208380$030101ac@boll.casema.net> A few month ago a promised to make a scan of the INTEL 4004 and 4040 datasheets aviable to the mebers of this list. I now have a place to put these files so take a look if you are so inclined. They come from the 1976 Inelco Databook. In future I may also place the 8080 and the 8008 datasheets here http://xgistor.ath.cx/files I e-mailed some guy at Intel and he told me that placing these scans would not infringe any copyright because Intel provided the information to dealers with the intent of publishing it in their publications. Anyway they'll be aviable until sombody legal asks me to pull them from this site Sipke de Wal From whdawson at mlynk.com Sun Aug 20 16:09:15 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: <20000819130317.E5682@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <000001c00aea$e5a82180$5b9e72d1@cobweb.net> I guess this an appropriate topic to put out the word about a fairly obscure organization in SW PA that regularly has vintage computers for sale at their Canonsburg location (and now on this list) and my relationship with them. The main organization is called The Washington City Mission, which is a Christian Homeless Rehabilitation Shelter, and they operate five "Hidden Treasures" retail stores in the local area. They also operate the Avis Arbor Women's Shelter. Drop-offs are accepted at all store locations, but they also have several box vans which are out in the community during the weekdays making pickups which are arranged by donors calling in. Quoting from their literature: "Five Hidden Treasures thrift stores in Burgettstown, Canonsburg, Donora, Washington and Waynesburg offer excellent quality used merchandise at affordable prices. Your purchase at one of our stores provides revenue for us to continue our programs. Our stores are a ministry in each community, offering free of reduced cost merchandise to those in need. Whether you are rich or poor, there is something for everyone at Hidden Treasures." I started out as a regular customer at the Canonsburg location, often finding vintage computers and equipment at very reasonable prices. Terry, the manager at the Canonsburg store, informed me they were not picking up a lot of computer equipment because they didn't have anyone to go through it and check it out. He offered me a volunteer position as their "computer man", which I accepted. In return for testing and configuring "newer" PC's for low income families and other needy persons, I get all the vintage equipment that comes in, if I want it. The word is out now, and all computer equipment is accepted. Needless to say the usual things are plentiful, Commodores, Atari's, etc., but it is great to get some systems in that are still new in the box, along with an occasional CP/M system. We will be relocating the store in the future, so I am planning a vintage computer museum section. The difference will be that everything will be available for very reasonable prices. We are also planning on selling on eBay. Right now we have several complete vintage PC systems for sale, and lots of components. If anyone on this list is interested, contact me off list with a reasonable offer, exclusive of actual shipping costs. I'm not talking anywhere near eBay prices here. Just cover the time needed to pack things for shipping and a reasonable donation. And yes, your donation is tax deductible. Shipping available via UPS Ground and USPS parcel post, USPS Priority for smaller items and if requested. Photos also available upon request. And if you can get to our store, contact me for directions and a meeting time. Current systems and components that need homes: Original IBM 5150 PC, dual floppies, 5153 CGA monitor, IBM PC keyboard and 80 column IBM printer. Great physical and working condition. Early 128K IBM PS/1 with 5.25" floppy drive and PS/1 power cube, PS1 keyboard (not chicklets), separate PS/1 color monitor, 2 PS/1 joysticks, and a large box of IBM software (games and educational) in the IBM plastic boxes, 4 are on cartridges, the rest are on floppies, all have manuals. Also includes all the original PS/1 manuals and software, IBM DOS 2.X (I think 2.0 or 2.01) with slipcover binder. I can supply a list of the software titles to anyone seriously interested in this package. I also have the IBM 132 column printer that came in with all this. Great physical and working condition. Complete Apple Performa 637CD, Apple 15" Multiple Scan M2943 monitor, Keyboard, Mouse. Great physical and working condition. Early NEC PC, monitor and keyboard. Details if requested. Haven't checked it out yet. IBM PS/1 color monitor. (#2) Various EGA and CGA monitors. Apple 15" Multiple Scan M2943 monitor (#2) Lots and lots of PC keyboards. 80 column dot matrix printers, mostly tractor feed. PC power supplies. Various PC network cards, BNC/RJ-45. I pull them all from the PC systems that come in. Other items arriving just about every day. I'm going to try to get approval for us to accept large business systems also. We have the storage in Washington, and with the large area that our trucks cover, some great stuff is bound to turn up eventually. My recent finds: Atari 130XE NIB, C-128 NIB, Commodore 1526 LQ printer, NIB, lots of accessories, and boxes and boxes of manuals and diskettes. If there is interest within this group, more posts will follow and nothing much will end up on eBay. And remember, this endeavor supports a very worthy cause. Bill -> This is a "GOODWILL COMPUTERWORKS". A dedicated computer store. -> -> *ALL THEY SELL* is computers. All the computers donated to Goodwill across -> the state are trucked here, where if possible, they're reassembled into -> working boxes/parts (in the case of PCs), tested, and put out on the -> shelves for people to buy. 99% of the people coming in are looking for -> a PC, Mac, parts for same, or a printer or keyboard, etc; they've just -> recently opened up the "back room" with the old vintage stuff. -> -> People that go to the store *are* interested in the museum; they've -> been doing it to a limited extent for the past 2-3 years (as long as -> I've been going to the store), but have just recently gotten the room -> to expand it. -> -> When I spoke to one of the employees yesterday, he said that they get -> offered TONS more stuff that they simply dont have room for, but would -> love to take. I'm trying to work with them to establish another mailing -> list of collectors for this stuff - so that if GWCW gets offered a piece -> of hardware that they dont have the room for, the people on the list can -> then take a shot at it. -> -> If you want the "normal" GoodWill store, where you can buy clothing, -> coffee pots, old furnitre, etc, the newly expanded and remodeled store -> is about a half mile up the street. From whdawson at mlynk.com Sun Aug 20 17:16:14 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * Message-ID: <000301c00af4$40b6e580$5b9e72d1@cobweb.net> To all, Please note the correction in the description of the one IBM system available below. I meant PC jr, not PS/1. Somehow, I hope this is related to a major blow I received on my head last night in an accident, which cut my scalp about 1.5 across and peeled it back about 2 inches. This would have to be in a place where I had already lost hair. If this isn't related, then it was just a stupid mistake d8^) I guess this an appropriate topic to put out the word about a fairly obscure organization in SW PA that regularly has vintage computers for sale at their Canonsburg location (and now on this list) and my relationship with them. The main organization is called The Washington City Mission, which is a Christian Homeless Rehabilitation Shelter, and they operate five "Hidden Treasures" retail stores in the local area. They also operate the Avis Arbor Women's Shelter. Drop-offs are accepted at all store locations, but they also have several box vans which are out in the community during the weekdays making pickups which are arranged by donors calling in. Quoting from their literature: "Five Hidden Treasures thrift stores in Burgettstown, Canonsburg, Donora, Washington and Waynesburg offer excellent quality used merchandise at affordable prices. Your purchase at one of our stores provides revenue for us to continue our programs. Our stores are a ministry in each community, offering free of reduced cost merchandise to those in need. Whether you are rich or poor, there is something for everyone at Hidden Treasures." I started out as a regular customer at the Canonsburg location, often finding vintage computers and equipment at very reasonable prices. Terry, the manager at the Canonsburg store, informed me they were not picking up a lot of computer equipment because they didn't have anyone to go through it and check it out. He offered me a volunteer position as their "computer man", which I accepted. In return for testing and configuring "newer" PC's for low income families and other needy persons, I get all the vintage equipment that comes in, if I want it. The word is out now, and all computer equipment is accepted. Needless to say the usual things are plentiful, Commodores, Atari's, etc., but it is great to get some systems in that are still new in the box, along with an occasional CP/M system. We will be relocating the store in the future, so I am planning a vintage computer museum section. The difference will be that everything will be available for very reasonable prices. We are also planning on selling on eBay. Right now we have several complete vintage PC systems for sale, and lots of components. If anyone on this list is interested, contact me off list with a reasonable offer, exclusive of actual shipping costs. I'm not talking anywhere near eBay prices here. Just cover the time needed to pack things for shipping and a reasonable donation. And yes, your donation is tax deductible. Shipping available via UPS Ground and USPS parcel post, USPS Priority for smaller items and if requested. Photos also available upon request. And if you can get to our store, contact me for directions and a meeting time. Current systems and components that need homes: Original IBM 5150 PC, dual floppies, 5153 CGA monitor, IBM PC keyboard and 80 column IBM printer. Great physical and working condition. Early 128K IBM PC jr with 5.25" floppy drive and PC jr power cube, PC jr keyboard (not chicklets), separate PC jr color monitor, 2 PC jr joysticks, and a large box of IBM software (games and educational) in the IBM plastic boxes, 4 are on cartridges, the rest are on floppies, all have manuals. Also includes all the original PC jr manuals and software, IBM DOS 2.X (I think 2.0 or 2.01) with slipcover binder. I can supply a list of the software titles to anyone seriously interested in this package. I also have the IBM 132 column printer that came in with all this. Great physical and working condition. Complete Apple Performa 637CD, Apple 15" Multiple Scan M2943 monitor, Keyboard, Mouse. Great physical and working condition. Early NEC PC, monitor and keyboard. Details if requested. Haven't checked it out yet. IBM PC jr color monitor. (#2) Various EGA and CGA monitors. Apple 15" Multiple Scan M2943 monitor (#2) Lots and lots of PC keyboards. 80 column dot matrix printers, mostly tractor feed. PC power supplies. Various PC network cards, BNC/RJ-45. I pull them all from the PC systems that come in. Other items arriving just about every day. I'm going to try to get approval for us to accept large business systems also. We have the storage in Washington, and with the large area that our trucks cover, some great stuff is bound to turn up eventually. My recent finds: Atari 130XE NIB, C-128 NIB, Commodore 1526 LQ printer, NIB, lots of accessories, and boxes and boxes of manuals and diskettes. If there is interest within this group, more posts will follow and nothing much will end up on eBay. And remember, this endeavor supports a very worthy cause. Bill -> This is a "GOODWILL COMPUTERWORKS". A dedicated computer store. -> -> *ALL THEY SELL* is computers. All the computers donated to Goodwill across -> the state are trucked here, where if possible, they're reassembled into -> working boxes/parts (in the case of PCs), tested, and put out on the -> shelves for people to buy. 99% of the people coming in are looking for -> a PC, Mac, parts for same, or a printer or keyboard, etc; they've just -> recently opened up the "back room" with the old vintage stuff. -> -> People that go to the store *are* interested in the museum; they've -> been doing it to a limited extent for the past 2-3 years (as long as -> I've been going to the store), but have just recently gotten the room -> to expand it. -> -> When I spoke to one of the employees yesterday, he said that they get -> offered TONS more stuff that they simply dont have room for, but would -> love to take. I'm trying to work with them to establish another mailing -> list of collectors for this stuff - so that if GWCW gets offered a piece -> of hardware that they dont have the room for, the people on the list can -> then take a shot at it. -> -> If you want the "normal" GoodWill store, where you can buy clothing, -> coffee pots, old furnitre, etc, the newly expanded and remodeled store -> is about a half mile up the street. From foo at siconic.com Sun Aug 20 19:04:13 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: <000001c00aea$e5a82180$5b9e72d1@cobweb.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Bill Dawson wrote: > Early 128K IBM PS/1 with 5.25" floppy drive and PS/1 power cube, PS1 > keyboard (not chicklets), separate PS/1 color monitor, 2 PS/1 joysticks, > and a large box of IBM software (games and educational) in the IBM I always wondered what era the IBM PS/1 is from? I've seen PS/1 machines but they look 90s. And I never heard of them before the PS/2, although it would seem logical that the PS/1 came first. What's the deal? Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Aug 20 20:19:01 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 20, 2000 05:04:13 PM Message-ID: <200008210119.TAA04573@calico.litterbox.com> > I always wondered what era the IBM PS/1 is from? I've seen PS/1 machines > but they look 90s. And I never heard of them before the PS/2, although it > would seem logical that the PS/1 came first. What's the deal? ps/1 was early 90s. ps/2, which preceded it (go figure) was late 80s. ps/2 was supposed to push the new (closed) IBM archetecture (who's name eludes me) whereas ps/1 was just another clone, albiet a single box with everything in it. This is how I remember it, although I'm certainly no expert. > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Aug 20 20:21:41 2000 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * Message-ID: In a message dated 8/20/00 9:11:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, foo@siconic.com writes: > On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Bill Dawson wrote: > > > Early 128K IBM PS/1 with 5.25" floppy drive and PS/1 power cube, PS1 > > keyboard (not chicklets), separate PS/1 color monitor, 2 PS/1 joysticks, > > and a large box of IBM software (games and educational) in the IBM > > I always wondered what era the IBM PS/1 is from? I've seen PS/1 machines > but they look 90s. And I never heard of them before the PS/2, although it > would seem logical that the PS/1 came first. What's the deal? > > Sellam PS/1s were made from 1990 to 1994. they were consumer models and used everything between 286-10 to 486-66 cpus. PS/2s were commerical desktop machines. Most people recognize the PS/1 as one of the first three models that used 286/386 cpus. they were a proprietary design with small cases and matching monitors. later models were standard LPX designs with power management. very simple and easy to fix. I've two early PS/1s in my collection. david, former PS/1 and Aptiva technical support DB Young ICQ: 29427634 hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! -> www.nothingtodo.org From phil at ultimate.com Sun Aug 20 20:39:12 2000 From: phil at ultimate.com (Phil Budne) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: 4004 & 4040 Datasheets Message-ID: <200008210139.VAA15087@ultimate.com> > They come from the 1976 Inelco Databook. In future I may also place the > 8080 and the 8008 datasheets here > http://xgistor.ath.cx/files I get redirected to http://reptile.thuis.noordwijk/files/ which doesn't exist! -phil From transit at lerctr.org Sun Aug 20 21:14:08 2000 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Bill Dawson wrote: > > > Early 128K IBM PS/1 with 5.25" floppy drive and PS/1 power cube, PS1 > > keyboard (not chicklets), separate PS/1 color monitor, 2 PS/1 joysticks, > > and a large box of IBM software (games and educational) in the IBM > > I always wondered what era the IBM PS/1 is from? I've seen PS/1 machines > but they look 90s. And I never heard of them before the PS/2, although it > would seem logical that the PS/1 came first. What's the deal? PS/1 came out a bit after the PS/2, if I recall correctly. It was a "cut-down" version of the PS/2 for home use. It lacked some things that the PS/2 had, but I forget what. (Shades of the PCjr) From richard at idcomm.com Sun Aug 20 21:42:02 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: 4004 & 4040 Datasheets References: <200008210139.VAA15087@ultimate.com> Message-ID: <001b01c00b19$639a04e0$0500c0a8@winbook> If you check and then select you'll get there Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Budne To: Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2000 7:39 PM Subject: Re: 4004 & 4040 Datasheets > > They come from the 1976 Inelco Databook. In future I may also place the > > 8080 and the 8008 datasheets here > > http://xgistor.ath.cx/files > > I get redirected to http://reptile.thuis.noordwijk/files/ which > doesn't exist! > > -phil > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sun Aug 20 22:01:38 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * Message-ID: <004901c00b1c$3910dc50$9b0d9a8d@ajp166> Quite all wrong. PS/1 was the ISA-16 (AT bus) repsonse to the PS/2s lack of interest due to it's MCA bus. It was designed to be low cost and compatable. I have a PS/1 Consultant (486sx/25) here. Nice generic box not unlike the DELL 4xx series. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip) To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Sunday, August 20, 2000 10:39 PM Subject: RE: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * > > >On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >> On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Bill Dawson wrote: >> >> > Early 128K IBM PS/1 with 5.25" floppy drive and PS/1 power cube, PS1 >> > keyboard (not chicklets), separate PS/1 color monitor, 2 PS/1 joysticks, >> > and a large box of IBM software (games and educational) in the IBM >> >> I always wondered what era the IBM PS/1 is from? I've seen PS/1 machines >> but they look 90s. And I never heard of them before the PS/2, although it >> would seem logical that the PS/1 came first. What's the deal? > >PS/1 came out a bit after the PS/2, if I recall correctly. It was >a "cut-down" version of the PS/2 for home use. It lacked some things >that the PS/2 had, but I forget what. (Shades of the PCjr) > From ghldbrd at ccp.com Mon Aug 21 11:19:38 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Charles On 20-Aug-00, you wrote: > > > On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > >> On Sun, 20 Aug 2000, Bill Dawson wrote: >> >>> Early 128K IBM PS/1 with 5.25" floppy drive and PS/1 power cube, PS1 >>> keyboard (not chicklets), separate PS/1 color monitor, 2 PS/1 joysticks, >>> and a large box of IBM software (games and educational) in the IBM >> >> I always wondered what era the IBM PS/1 is from? I've seen PS/1 machines >> but they look 90s. And I never heard of them before the PS/2, although it >> would seem logical that the PS/1 came first. What's the deal? > > PS/1 came out a bit after the PS/2, if I recall correctly. It was > a "cut-down" version of the PS/2 for home use. It lacked some things > that the PS/2 had, but I forget what. (Shades of the PCjr) One of the most blatant things they forgot was an accessible serial port. In its place was a built in modem (I think it was 2400 baud back then). Real pain when you wanted to run a packet TNC for ham radio. What I remember most was that the 386's were taking hold then, and the PS/1 was a 286 processor. > > Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Mon Aug 21 07:30:59 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (FBA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks Message-ID: <000501c00b6b$b01164b0$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> Not ten year old yet but urgent... Seens like Apple is actively trying to eradicate the powerbooks 5300 and 190. The article at: http://www.pbzone.com/index.shtml#applestore States that apple will be destroying the PB that are sent back. Time to find those babies and protect them from doom. Francois From bwit at pobox.com Mon Aug 21 07:49:48 2000 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: <200008210119.TAA04573@calico.litterbox.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000821074948.008fc650@ruffboy.com> At 07:19 PM 8/20/00 -0600, you wrote: >> I always wondered what era the IBM PS/1 is from? I've seen PS/1 machines >> but they look 90s. And I never heard of them before the PS/2, although it >> would seem logical that the PS/1 came first. What's the deal? > >ps/1 was early 90s. ps/2, which preceded it (go figure) was late 80s. ps/2 >was supposed to push the new (closed) IBM archetecture (who's name eludes me) >whereas ps/1 was just another clone, albiet a single box with everything in it. It was called Micro-Channel although not all PS/2's used it. As I recall the PS/1 was supposed to be a dumbed down PS/2 for home use. It was designed to be very limited to insure it didn't cut into the PS/2 market. Regards, Bob -------------------------------------------------------- "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." -- Mark Twain From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Aug 21 09:02:48 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks In-Reply-To: <000501c00b6b$b01164b0$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000821070248.009978b0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 07:30 21-08-2000 -0500, Francois wrote: >Not ten year old yet but urgent... >Seens like Apple is actively trying to eradicate the powerbooks 5300 and >190. >The article at: >http://www.pbzone.com/index.shtml#applestore So, in essence, they're trying desperately to weasel out of fixing units that were defective from their plant to begin with. How incredibly cheesy. This -really- makes me want to buy something from Apple... NOT! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Aug 21 10:01:31 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Fun find - Northern Telecom Displayphone In-Reply-To: <000901c008b3$abaa3240$5e93fea9@hal90002> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000821100131.3ae70686@mailhost.intellistar.net> Mark, I've got two DisplayPhones. They're neat devices. Depending on the exact model, they have one of two phone lines, an RS-232 port and a printer port. You can use some (all?) of them as terminals with built-in MODEMs. They're also used as a small phone system. They can store telephone numbers and they'll track the amount of time that each call last. They can also be used as a speaker phone. I've never been able to find instructions for them but the features are easy to access via the menu and it's easy to figure out after playing with one for a few minutes. Joe At 07:28 PM 8/17/00 -0600, you wrote: >Found something cool in the thrift shop that I've never seen before - a >Northern Telecom Displayphone (model NT6K00AM), ca. 1984. > >It seems to be an early attempt at computer/telephone integration - >basically a data terminal integrated with a telephone. There's a very clear, >legible screen, a full keyboard that hides in the main unit, and really nice >touch-sensitive controls for the phone functions. On the back are an RS-232C >port and a parallel port. > >Can anybody tell me more about this system, and how they were used? A >Web-search using several engines and a dejanews search yielded nothing >useful. The Nortel Website doesn't even admit this phone ever existed. > >Cheers, >Mark Gregory > > From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Aug 21 09:27:56 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks In-Reply-To: <000501c00b6b$b01164b0$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> from FBA at "Aug 21, 0 07:30:59 am" Message-ID: <200008211427.HAA14656@stockholm.ptloma.edu> [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > Not ten year old yet but urgent... > Seens like Apple is actively trying to eradicate the powerbooks 5300 and > 190. What CPU does the 5300/190 have in it? What were the issues? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Quote for the day: " ------------------------------------------------------- From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Aug 21 05:25:27 2000 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20000821070248.009978b0@pop.sttl.uswest.net> References: <000501c00b6b$b01164b0$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: <20000821142639.VEYB19855.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> > Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 07:02:48 -0700 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > From: Bruce Lane > Subject: Re: Apple Recall of powerbooks > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Bruce wrote: > At 07:30 21-08-2000 -0500, Francois wrote: > > >Not ten year old yet but urgent... > >Seens like Apple is actively trying to eradicate the powerbooks 5300 and > >190. > >The article at: > >http://www.pbzone.com/index.shtml#applestore > > > > So, in essence, they're trying desperately to weasel out of fixing units > that were defective from their plant to begin with. > > How incredibly cheesy. This -really- makes me want to buy something from > Apple... NOT! > Pray and tell, us what make this 190 and 5300 so bad or so good that apple don't want them exist? This is list, we need "inside infomation" kind. Hint! On other hand, I find 190 nice when it work but I find internal design assembly and cooling less than desired due to too many cost cutting. Broken mouse button, no screw mounting for memory expansion and tend to pop back out by the bowed RF shielding the PCMCIA. Only 2 screws total holding down whole display to the bottom. Plastic breaking all over iside including those mouse assembly and screw holes broken out (bottom 3 that holds keyboard in). Excessive use of wood type screws (w/ steep thread 1 rev per 2mm) intead of machine screws in metal sleeves or metal parts. What else? Listed of these faults, I fixed most of them except those 2 of 3 broken out screws holes. RANT: I knew apple policies with broken parts, they grind them up no matter what vintage or recent ones because they can afford to because we pay apple too much. I don't appreciate apple's attitudes on this because forces us to pay for new parts or new machine. No diferent than M$ telling us to buy new machines to get real version not upgrade junk that preevishly wants legal copy of previous OSes before proceeding. end rant. Wizard > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Aug 21 09:42:39 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB07B@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > Not ten year old yet but urgent... > > Seens like Apple is actively trying to eradicate the powerbooks 5300 and > > 190. > > What CPU does the 5300/190 have in it? What were the issues? The 190 is a 68040; the 5300 is a PowerPC (601) chip. -dq From rexstout at uswest.net Mon Aug 21 10:57:44 2000 From: rexstout at uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks In-Reply-To: <200008211427.HAA14656@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <200008211427.HAA14656@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: >What CPU does the 5300 PowerPC of some sort. Old slow 603 maybe? I don't think they used 601's in PowerBooks. >190 have in it? I think this was the last 680x0 machine. LC040 probably. > What were the issues? Wasn't there something about exploding batteries with the 5300? Apple has always been a bit piggish about their stuff. They'd better put a microphone in the next iBook! @#%!#$^!#$%^!!! But the new G4 cube is nice. Anyone want to try to glue a nice LCD monitor to the front and stick a G4 cube into an old 128k case? :-) -- /-----------------------------------------------\ | http://jrollins.tripod.com/ rexstout@uswest.net | | http://www.geocities.com/jrollins.geo/ | | List admin for orham and ham-mac at www.qth.net | | KD7BCY pdxham at www.egroups.com | \-----------------------------------------------/ From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Mon Aug 21 09:58:05 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000821074948.008fc650@ruffboy.com> Message-ID: <000401c00b80$3707c770$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> IBM experimented with a lot of names and Marketing techniques. These names come immediately to mind PC,PS/2,Ambra,PS/1,Aptiva,PS/ValuePoint but there may be others (!). The basic technology overlapped considerably on some models, IE not all machines were unique... industry standards were always important... The PS/2 may have been the most unique, but as others have pointed out evan that had a few ISA bus machines. John A. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Aug 21 10:04:51 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum Pictures In-Reply-To: <20000819122845.A5682@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <39A16133.12283.C4DA8@localhost> > A few systems they asked me to find out more details on: > http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-008F.JPG > "Zilog Z-80 Computer System" (or maybe it said "Development System") - > anybody know any more details about this box? The guy @ GWCW said all > he could find was references to the chip itself. It should read Development System - After all, it's the classic Zilog case and paint scheme (Alison, isn't this your turf ?) - I got two similar systems, one looks quite like your picture, the other is made up from two boxes (thanks to Stefan Walgenbach for this baby :) - there should be some additional numbers on the back. > http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-013F.JPG and > http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-014F.JPG > System labeled "ibex" ? They've got 2 or 3 of these, a couple still > in the original boxes. AFAIR they are Z80 based CP/M office systems. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From pat at transarc.ibm.com Mon Aug 21 10:04:41 2000 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, John Rollins wrote: > > What were the issues? > Wasn't there something about exploding batteries with the 5300? Yes; plus, there were some reliability problems too. These machines were under an Apple "Repair Extension Program" (a/k/a "recall"....), in which (according to info on their web site), they would fix the recall problems for free, for "as long as Apple services these machines" (7 years after discontinued, in the US). See http://macworld.zdnet.com/1996/02/news/1793.html for a few more details. --Pat. From jpero at sympatico.ca Mon Aug 21 06:08:35 2000 From: jpero at sympatico.ca (jpero@sympatico.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000821074948.008fc650@ruffboy.com> References: <200008210119.TAA04573@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <20000821150947.EKDG9409.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> > > > >ps/1 was early 90s. ps/2, which preceded it (go figure) was late 80s. ps/2 > >was supposed to push the new (closed) IBM archetecture (who's name eludes me) > >whereas ps/1 was just another clone, albiet a single box with everything > in it. Allison is spot on, I'm using aptiva semi-atx motherboard but fits the case with i/o plate removed and running 233mmx. The ps/1/aptiva/intellistations were basically the same motherboards, just different packages and warrenty support levels. for example: aptiva 2133-s16 and at least 2 models of intellistations used same intel's LPX FX chipset type motherboards that used "EISA style connector" for riser slot card. > It was called Micro-Channel although not all PS/2's used it. As I recall > the PS/1 was supposed to be a dumbed down PS/2 for home use. It was > designed to be very limited to insure it didn't cut into the PS/2 market. Correct again, Between model 25 all the way to 40 are ISA ps/2. The another ISA small box is model 33. Above that, all MCA. I find ps/1 2011 or early 386sx in same box attactive for it's size. At least thanks to this 2011 idea, you can now buy small boxes with small footprint celeron/pentium/pii/piii, athlon/duron with everything for a grand. Wizard > > Regards, > Bob From bill_r at inetnebr.com Mon Aug 21 10:14:52 2000 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Available Message-ID: <2mh2qs4ebk4d1s70f8nol3tp5tqdlq4v4g@4ax.com> I just got a call from a gentleman I spoke to some time back who works at a public television station. They have two PDP 11/23 CPU cards in chassis, plus a full set of peripheral cards (not sure of details), and two RL02 drives, probably with several disk packs. This is basically one operational system plus a spare CPU and chassis. They would like to get them out of there sometime this week. If you're interested, let me know and I'll get you in touch with the right person. Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf computer simulator! From bbrown at harper.cc.il.us Mon Aug 21 10:28:34 2000 From: bbrown at harper.cc.il.us (Bob Brown) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Available In-Reply-To: <2mh2qs4ebk4d1s70f8nol3tp5tqdlq4v4g@4ax.com> References: <2mh2qs4ebk4d1s70f8nol3tp5tqdlq4v4g@4ax.com> Message-ID: Where are they physically? thanks. -Bob >I just got a call from a gentleman I spoke to some time back who works >at a public television station. They have two PDP 11/23 CPU cards in >chassis, plus a full set of peripheral cards (not sure of details), >and two RL02 drives, probably with several disk packs. This is >basically one operational system plus a spare CPU and chassis. They >would like to get them out of there sometime this week. If you're >interested, let me know and I'll get you in touch with the right >person. > > >Bill Richman >bill_r@inetnebr.com >http://incolor.inetnebr.com > >Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological >oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf >computer simulator! Bob Brown Saved by grace Intranet Sysadmin Page: http://info1.harper.cc.il.us/~bbrown From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Aug 21 10:38:02 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum Pictures Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB07C@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > A few systems they asked me to find out more details on: > > http://www.pdp11.org/gwcw/disk1/MVC-008F.JPG > > "Zilog Z-80 Computer System" (or maybe it said "Development System") - > anybody know any more details about this box? The guy @ GWCW said all > he could find was references to the chip itself. The development OS was called either "REO" or "RIO", IIRC. I used to work for a firm that had one plus all the docs. They're still in business, they may still have the stuff. I'll check when I can. -dq From bills at adrenaline.com Mon Aug 21 10:43:19 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Available In-Reply-To: <2mh2qs4ebk4d1s70f8nol3tp5tqdlq4v4g@4ax.com> Message-ID: > I just got a call from a gentleman I spoke to some time back who works > at a public television station. They have two PDP 11/23 CPU cards in > chassis, plus a full set of peripheral cards (not sure of details), > and two RL02 drives, probably with several disk packs. This is > basically one operational system plus a spare CPU and chassis. They > would like to get them out of there sometime this week. If you're > interested, let me know and I'll get you in touch with the right > person. Located where?? From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Aug 21 10:49:19 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Available In-Reply-To: <2mh2qs4ebk4d1s70f8nol3tp5tqdlq4v4g@4ax.com> from Bill Richman at "Aug 21, 2000 10:14:52 am" Message-ID: <200008211549.KAA29403@caesar.cs.umn.edu> What city? -Lawrence LeMay > I just got a call from a gentleman I spoke to some time back who works > at a public television station. They have two PDP 11/23 CPU cards in > chassis, plus a full set of peripheral cards (not sure of details), > and two RL02 drives, probably with several disk packs. This is > basically one operational system plus a spare CPU and chassis. They > would like to get them out of there sometime this week. If you're > interested, let me know and I'll get you in touch with the right > person. > > > Bill Richman > bill_r@inetnebr.com > http://incolor.inetnebr.com > > Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological > oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf > computer simulator! > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Aug 21 11:16:12 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Museum ??? (Was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open) In-Reply-To: <002301c009f3$d1b9ede0$58bbe2d1@kstumpf> Message-ID: <39A171EC.30129.3F8E14@localhost> > Sellam your last comment is consistent with many other similarly > 'ridiculous' (your word not mine) ones. Did you take the time to fully > evaluate the potential of this endeavour? > [...] > What that Goodwill store is doing is a good thing for several reasons: > 1..the items have been rescued and are being preserved. > 2..the items are being exhibited to the public (and those of us who have > tried to exhibit this stuff know how difficult it is to encourage people to > take the time to come and see it), so the store is also educating the public > about the technology we love so much because they have a captive audience, > 3..the store is fostering the growth of our hobby which is essential for our > hobby to continue and thrive > 4..the store has (knowingly or not) made a strategic marketing move and will > hopefully benefit by attracting more people than would ordinarily go there > and the increased customer volume can boost sales (to help the needy) > What appears to some to be a silly, mis-guided stunt, can be a helpful > win-win-win achievement. Let's encourage the person at that store instead of > complaining behind his or her back. Well, I'm still not 100% custom to your scheme of 'Goodwill' stores (but I stop already for every Thrift/Goodwill store when raiding (sp?:) the US), nonetheless I can't figure what's good when they shelf the computers instead of selling it. Just assume they get an average of 100-200 Bucks per Computer (since there is possible rare (in publics opinion) stuff, the average may even be higher), multiplied by 100 (that's their number of museum computers, acording to the web site) you'll get 10 to 20 KBucks - quite a lot of money to help people. Of course, one may argue these computers will gain value and therefore it'll be a good deal to keep them until a C64 sells at $1k - just, AFAK, it's not their mission to aquire real estate and earn intrest, but rather earn money _now_ by selling donated stuff. And 'saving' the machines for a later, high price sale is nothing else than an invest. Also, a museum needs, as we all sadly know, SPACE and space is an equivalent for money - in this context even more, since they not only have to lease the space, but also don't generate income from the leased space (ok, I know, at least in Texas the equation of space and cost is a bit different and less prior than over here). Conclusion: (and some may don't like it) If they recognize old computers and are willing to invest some additional handling to maximize earnings the best modus operandi is to auction them of at eBay and use the money acording to their carta. Gruss H. (OOO) -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Aug 21 11:23:21 2000 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: sad auction story Message-ID: <80256942.0059ACDA.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> >> >> What a stupid concept! >> > >> >Almost as stupid as sending a check, ... or a money order, ... or a >> >cashiers check. Hey, why buy anything since there are always risks >> >involved. >> >> Yes, but unlike paypal, you can still dispute a payment using the >> other methods and still be able to use them. What paypal does with >> that requirement is remove any recourse a person has... > > Paypal is a means of payment just like a money order or cashiers check. It > is not in the business of arbitration. The means of payment is separate from > the transaction itself ... as it should be. This type of transaction gone > bad is probably something Yahoo should get involved with. If you mail off a > check to someone and it appears that fraud is involved, you don't really > think the bank will get involved do you? On the contrary, if I say to the bank, "I think that cheque number 1203 was cashed fraudulently", I expect them to dig out the cheque and find out what account it was paid into, and if it is not in the name of the person I wrote on the cheque, to find out by whose signature it was endorsed, and help me determine whether the payee really was the person who endorsed it. Etc. This is at least equivalent to Paypal's new terms as posted by Sellam. It also covers the Paypal scam that was described earlier in this thread, even if not the Sorceror scam. The business of contesting payments on other grounds was introduced for credit cards, I think because they are so easy to misuse. I do not like the idea of a service like Paypal tayking away these additional rights (or forbidding you to exercise them, which is essentially the same thing) - on the Net, credit cards are even easier to misuse... That said, if you have been defrauded on a credit card transaction, the credit card company is jointly liable with the seller, and ought to help you recover the money. OK, that's my bit. I'll shut up now... Philip. ********************************************************************** This message and any attachments are confidential and should only be read by those to whom they are addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact us, delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. Any distribution or copying without our prior permission is prohibited. Internet communications are not always secure and therefore the PowerGen Group does not accept legal responsibility for this message. The recipient is responsible for verifying its authenticity before acting on the contents. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the PowerGen Group. Power Technology: Telephone +44 (0) 115 936 2000 Fax +44 (0) 115 936 2711 E-mail techinfo@powertech.co.uk www http://www.powertech.co.uk PowerGen UK plc Registered Office: 53 New Broad Street London EC2M 1SL Registered in England and Wales No: 2366970 ********************************************************************** From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 21 11:24:19 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum Pictures In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB07C@tegntserver.tegjeff .com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000821112239.02c74de0@pc> At 11:38 AM 8/21/00 -0400, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: >The development OS was called either "REO" or "RIO", IIRC. I used to >work for a firm that had one plus all the docs. They're still in >business, they may still have the stuff. I'll check when I can. I've got a similar paint-scheme but different box Zilog MCZ Z-80 development system, and it runs RIO. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 21 11:22:24 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Available In-Reply-To: <2mh2qs4ebk4d1s70f8nol3tp5tqdlq4v4g@4ax.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000821112208.02d2bb80@pc> At 10:14 AM 8/21/00 -0500, Bill Richman wrote: >I just got a call from a gentleman I spoke to some time back who works >at a public television station. Location, location, location! - John From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Aug 21 11:49:08 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Museum ??? (Was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open) In-Reply-To: <39A171EC.30129.3F8E14@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Aug 21, 0 06:16:12 pm" Message-ID: <200008211649.JAA10942@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Of course, one may argue these computers will gain value and > therefore it'll be a good deal to keep them until a C64 sells > at $1k - Man, I hope I never see that day ... -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Why was I born with such contemporaries? -- Oscar Wilde -------------------- From Anthony.Eros at compaq.com Mon Aug 21 11:43:34 2000 From: Anthony.Eros at compaq.com (Eros, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Available Message-ID: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F084F48A3@ALFEXC5> I'm guessing from the original poster's address that it may be somewhere in Nebraska... > ---------- > From: John Foust[SMTP:jfoust@threedee.com] > Reply To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 12:22 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: PDP 11/23 Available > > At 10:14 AM 8/21/00 -0500, Bill Richman wrote: > >I just got a call from a gentleman I spoke to some time back who works > >at a public television station. > > Location, location, location! > > - John > From cisin at xenosoft.com Mon Aug 21 11:47:09 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Early 128K IBM PS/1 with 5.25" floppy drive and PS/1 power cube, PS1 > keyboard (not chicklets), separate PS/1 color monitor, 2 PS/1 joysticks, > and a large box of IBM software (games and educational) in the IBM The machine being described does NOT sound like a PS/1! It sounds like a PCJr. Did the PS/1 have a 5.25" drive (other than external)? Did the PS/1 have a "power cube"? Did the PS/1 have a chiclets keyboard? Did the PS/1 have joysticks? The PS/1 came after the PS/2, and may or may not be OT. Some thought that it was IBM backing down from MCA. Anybody in the SF bay area who would like some PCJrs? PS/2s? Don't make me bring a big pile of stuff to VCF! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Aug 21 12:06:36 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:53 2005 Subject: Goodwill Museum ??? (Was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open) In-Reply-To: <39A171EC.30129.3F8E14@localhost>; from Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de on Mon, Aug 21, 2000 at 06:16:12PM +0200 References: <002301c009f3$d1b9ede0$58bbe2d1@kstumpf> <39A171EC.30129.3F8E14@localhost> Message-ID: <20000821120636.T5682@mrbill.net> On Mon, Aug 21, 2000 at 06:16:12PM +0200, Hans Franke wrote: > Just assume they get an average of 100-200 Bucks per Computer > (since there is possible rare (in publics opinion) stuff, the > average may even be higher), multiplied by 100 (that's their > number of museum computers, acording to the web site) you'll > get 10 to 20 KBucks - quite a lot of money to help people. Actually if they sold these, they'd go for under $50 each, for most of them.. a few of these systems they have multiples of, and the others are selling for $9-39 on average. -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Aug 21 12:16:20 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Goodwill Museum ??? (Was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open) In-Reply-To: <20000821120636.T5682@mrbill.net> References: <39A171EC.30129.3F8E14@localhost>; from Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de on Mon, Aug 21, 2000 at 06:16:12PM +0200 Message-ID: <39A18004.13959.769B48@localhost> > On Mon, Aug 21, 2000 at 06:16:12PM +0200, Hans Franke wrote: > > Just assume they get an average of 100-200 Bucks per Computer > > (since there is possible rare (in publics opinion) stuff, the > > average may even be higher), multiplied by 100 (that's their > > number of museum computers, acording to the web site) you'll > > get 10 to 20 KBucks - quite a lot of money to help people. > Actually if they sold these, they'd go for under $50 each, for > most of them.. a few of these systems they have multiples of, > and the others are selling for $9-39 on average. A SP9000 PET for 50 Bucks on ePay ? I havn't thought the price is _that_ low at the moment... Again, I'm not talking about give them away at their regular store price (although I'd like it), but rather sell them at hughes tossible price. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Aug 21 12:27:20 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: from Fred Cisin at "Aug 21, 0 09:47:09 am" Message-ID: <200008211727.KAA14558@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Anybody in the SF bay area who would like some PCJrs? PS/2s? Don't make > me bring a big pile of stuff to VCF! I have a copy of the original King's Quest here that's dying for a PCjr to run on, but I don't know too much about them to be a good PCjr shepherd. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Just another Sojourner of the Dispersion (1 Peter 1:1) --------------------- From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Aug 21 12:49:10 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks In-Reply-To: Re: Apple Recall of powerbooks (Cameron Kaiser) References: <000501c00b6b$b01164b0$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> <200008211427.HAA14656@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <14753.27542.455075.785973@phaduka.neurotica.com> On August 21, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Not ten year old yet but urgent... > > Seens like Apple is actively trying to eradicate the powerbooks 5300 and > > 190. > > What CPU does the 5300/190 have in it? What were the issues? My 5300c has a PPC603e/100. It has no issues that I'm aware of. Not sure what others have experienced. -Dave McGuire From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Aug 21 13:21:21 2000 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * Message-ID: <200008211821.NAA85476@opal.tseinc.com> In a message dated Mon, 21 Aug 2000 1:26:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Cameron Kaiser writes: << > Anybody in the SF bay area who would like some PCJrs? PS/2s? Don't make > me bring a big pile of stuff to VCF! I have a copy of the original King's Quest here that's dying for a PCjr to run on, but I don't know too much about them to be a good PCjr shepherd. -- ------- I wouldnt mind another pcjr if it was the standard model. the enhanced model had the disk drive, and the standard model only had 64k and the two cart ports. I've got a good stash of pcjr stuff myself, including one equipped with a hard drive and 640k. From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Mon Aug 21 13:51:18 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (FBA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: VCF Requests Message-ID: <006a01c00ba0$d1d08330$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> How about starting a request list of stuff we're hoping to find for trade/sale/free at the VCF I'll start right here: -pocket computers -programmable calculators -beer (speaking of which: If you owe me a beer, you'll have a chance to pay up this VCF.) -laptops -software and accessories for the above -MSX machines -European models (Amstrad, Oric, Sinclair....) Keep on adding. Thanks Francois From jim at calico.litterbox.com Mon Aug 21 13:53:16 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks In-Reply-To: <14753.27542.455075.785973@phaduka.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Aug 21, 2000 01:49:10 PM Message-ID: <200008211853.MAA09038@calico.litterbox.com> I read about this on the net, but the date was circa 1995 for the models equipped with lithium ion batteries (they tended to catch fire). Is there a new recall going on? > > On August 21, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > Not ten year old yet but urgent... > > > Seens like Apple is actively trying to eradicate the powerbooks 5300 and > > > 190. > > > > What CPU does the 5300/190 have in it? What were the issues? > > My 5300c has a PPC603e/100. It has no issues that I'm aware of. > Not sure what others have experienced. > > -Dave McGuire > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From foo at siconic.com Mon Aug 21 13:13:45 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <006a01c00ba0$d1d08330$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, FBA wrote: > How about starting a request list of stuff we're hoping to find for > trade/sale/free at the VCF > I'll start right here: > -pocket computers > -programmable calculators > -beer (speaking of which: If you owe me a beer, you'll have a chance to pay > up this VCF.) > -laptops > -software and accessories for the above > -MSX machines > -European models (Amstrad, Oric, Sinclair....) I know for sure that so far there will be at least 10 complete Apple //e systems, 4 with Duodrives, 4 with color monitors, 2 with Imagewriter printers. CHEAP! (less than $50 with prices dropping as time goes on) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Aug 21 14:16:05 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Thoughts on a datascope Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB082@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Any thoughts on how I can back this beastie up? Anyone > done anything with this line of datascope? No experience with this device, but you could try this: Remove the HD and attached it as the second drive in an old bootable PC that already has one MFM drive. You'll need to get the drive parameters for the drive entered into the CMOS; I think I used to use SpeedStor (?) for that. Other utilities exist. Then, assuming this datascope doesn't turn out to be an embedded DOS machine (and thus the drive formatted as FAT12), use DEBUG under DOS to load the boot sectors, then write to a .BIN file and set aside. Load the partition table (assuming it has one) and save it. Do a quick- n-dirty disassembly of the boot code to see where it runs off to (that is what it loads from the drive), and if it's loading less than 64k, you should be able to do this easily in DEBUG. If it's loading more than 64k, you could just write a quick-n-dirty program using your favorite language (unless that's COBOL!) to read the datascope code in and store it in a binary file. However, as I said above, you may find this machine is an embedded DOS machine, and the drive may already be readable, file by file. hth, -doug q From vcf at siconic.com Mon Aug 21 13:15:44 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: A Call for Exhibitor's at VCF 4.0! Message-ID: If you are planning to exhibit at VCF 4.0, now is the time to register! There's only a little over a month left to plan your exhibit. Please register at the following address: http://www.vintage.org/2000/exhibit.html Exhibitors receive a free special edition Exhibitor t-shirt with their paid admission. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Aug 21 14:25:31 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <006a01c00ba0$d1d08330$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> from FBA at "Aug 21, 0 01:51:18 pm" Message-ID: <200008211925.MAA10798@stockholm.ptloma.edu> [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > How about starting a request list of stuff we're hoping to find for > trade/sale/free at the VCF > I'll start right here: > -pocket computers YES YES YES YES YES! > -programmable calculators > -beer (speaking of which: If you owe me a beer, you'll have a chance to pay > up this VCF.) Dr. Pepper. Flowing freely. By the gallon. Mr. Pibb even better. Does canned Mr. Pibb exist *anywhere*? It seems to only exist as a fountain drink, at least here in So. Cal. > -laptops > -software and accessories for the above > -MSX machines > -European models (Amstrad, Oric, Sinclair....) I'd love to get my hands on more Timex/Sinclair stuff. Looking in particular for a 2068. Also, someone PLEASE be selling M100 RAM modules there -- my 8201A needs a brain upgrade. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- TODAY'S DUMB TRUE HEADLINE: Enfield Couple Slain; Police Suspect Homicide -- From bill_r at inetnebr.com Mon Aug 21 14:21:02 2000 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Available In-Reply-To: <2mh2qs4ebk4d1s70f8nol3tp5tqdlq4v4g@4ax.com> References: <2mh2qs4ebk4d1s70f8nol3tp5tqdlq4v4g@4ax.com> Message-ID: <2003qs4hf8v0ic4r3f2b29ibd55gptdkcj@4ax.com> Oops. Based on the deluge of e-mails, I should probably let you know this hardware is located in South Dakota. I am not really in a position to pick it up and ship it, although I _might_ rescue it if no one else can. As nearly as I can determine verbally, this system does not have a full front panel - it sounds like a turnkey box with power and reset buttons. I don't know DEC stuff at all, so excuse the lack of detail. If you can pick it up in southern SD this week, let me know and I'll get you the specifics. On Mon, 21 Aug 2000 10:14:52 -0500, you wrote: >I just got a call from a gentleman I spoke to some time back who works >at a public television station. They have two PDP 11/23 CPU cards in >chassis, plus a full set of peripheral cards (not sure of details), >and two RL02 drives, probably with several disk packs. This is >basically one operational system plus a spare CPU and chassis. They >would like to get them out of there sometime this week. If you're >interested, let me know and I'll get you in touch with the right >person. > > >Bill Richman >bill_r@inetnebr.com >http://incolor.inetnebr.com > >Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological >oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf >computer simulator! Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf computer simulator! From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Aug 21 14:49:03 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: VCF Requests Message-ID: Welllll, if I journey out there from CO, I could bring a case or 2 of Mr. Pibb I suppose.... My want list: Minicomputers Mainframes Supercomputers Arcane UNIX boxen Workstations (Apollo, Whitechapel, Three Rivers, Ardent, Stardent, Stellar) Symbolics machines Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From dlw at trailingedge.com Mon Aug 21 14:56:58 2000 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <200008211925.MAA10798@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <006a01c00ba0$d1d08330$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> from FBA at "Aug 21, 0 01:51:18 pm" Message-ID: <39A1433A.20627.10268496@localhost> On 21 Aug 2000, at 12:25, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > Dr. Pepper. Flowing freely. By the gallon. Mr. Pibb even better. > > Does canned Mr. Pibb exist *anywhere*? It seems to only exist as a > fountain drink, at least here in So. Cal. It does in the stores here in Texas. I prefer the DP but gave it up recently. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Aug 21 15:05:35 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Thoughts on a datascope In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB082@tegntserver.tegjeff .com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000821150327.02cac3f0@pc> At 03:16 PM 8/21/00 -0400, you wrote: >Remove the HD and attached it as the second drive in an >old bootable PC that already has one MFM drive. You'll >need to get the drive parameters for the drive entered >into the CMOS; I think I used to use SpeedStor (?) for >that. Other utilities exist. I imagine the older Linuxes support MFM controllers. Perhaps even the current versions do, too. You could simply 'dd' the drive image to another device. My favorite backup trick recently was getting drive images from an Amiga 2500 to a PC for use under an emulator. I mounted the PC's drive under NFS, then used a freeware program to copy the drive image to the remote file. - John From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 21 15:12:44 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: VCF Requests References: Message-ID: <39A18D3C.8285CFF7@rain.org> Well, mostly what I am looking for is documentation for S-100 stuff. I have a number of things I am willing to trade: *RARE* Apple IIe w/ Kensington Fan *RARE* Apple II+ w/ Kensington Fan *RARE* Commodore 64 in the box *RARE*? Wang Tower (don't recall model #, and didn't find ebay listing so I am just assuming it is *RARE* :).) For those that question my use of *RARE*, obviously you have not been visiting the ebay listings and I strongly suggest you do to find out that these systems are truly *RARE* :). Along the lines of docs, I have quite a bit of Polymorphic Documentation, and while I won't sell the originals (they look to be the originals used to make copies for distribution), copies are no problem. Just let me know what you are looking for in plenty of time for me to check and make copies. I will use Kinko's to do the copies. I also have quite a bit in the way of Vector Graphic Documentation including system disks. Most of the docs look like Xerox copies in Vector binders. I also have probably about 100 Polymorphic S-100 cards including the CPU, Floppy Disk Card, and Video Card. Most look like they have been partially assembled and most likely would be for someone who knows how to work and troubleshoot S-100 systems. I can also provide a manual with them. Lots of other stuff, but this will do for starters. From dlw at trailingedge.com Mon Aug 21 15:20:25 2000 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) Message-ID: <39A148B9.16788.103BFD9E@localhost> What would you consider an original Apple II (not the II+ or IIe) to be worth? I received one and I'm going to cover their shipping cost but want to give a little something extra for the system. Got a bunch of original doc, software, cards etc. with it. The only minus is the original boot rom was exchanged with an auto-start rom. But I have an original rom which was swapped with the auto-start rom in an Apple II+ so I can make it whole again. :-) Any comments on value? ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Aug 21 13:13:37 2000 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: 4004 & 4040 Datasheets References: <200008210139.VAA15087@ultimate.com> Message-ID: <04e601c00b9b$87d9acc0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Strange! I've put this stuff behind/on my firewall (pmfirewall on a Linux router with masqurading) I can connect to it externally and do not seem to get any problems. Notice that you can only connect with a Http-browser via port 80. Does any one know what the problem could be Sipke ----- Original Message ----- From: Phil Budne To: Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 3:39 AM Subject: Re: 4004 & 4040 Datasheets > > They come from the 1976 Inelco Databook. In future I may also place the > > 8080 and the 8008 datasheets here > > http://xgistor.ath.cx/files > > I get redirected to http://reptile.thuis.noordwijk/files/ which > doesn't exist! > > -phil > From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Mon Aug 21 15:24:33 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c00bad$d1c54cb0$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Will J is reminded yet again that there are other transactions to deal with too... Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 11:28 AM Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 3:45 PM John A. From PasserM at umkc.edu Mon Aug 21 15:28:48 2000 From: PasserM at umkc.edu (Passer, Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: VCF Requests Message-ID: <95A711A70065D111B58C00609451555C07735234@umkc-mail02.wins.umkc.edu> I thought that at least the Apple IIe is the higher grade of R@RE, or even L**K U-L-T-R-A R@R3!!! -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Marvin Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 3:13 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: VCF Requests Well, mostly what I am looking for is documentation for S-100 stuff. I have a number of things I am willing to trade: *RARE* Apple IIe w/ Kensington Fan *RARE* Apple II+ w/ Kensington Fan *RARE* Commodore 64 in the box *RARE*? Wang Tower (don't recall model #, and didn't find ebay listing so I am just assuming it is *RARE* :).) For those that question my use of *RARE*, obviously you have not been visiting the ebay listings and I strongly suggest you do to find out that these systems are truly *RARE* :). Along the lines of docs, I have quite a bit of Polymorphic Documentation, and while I won't sell the originals (they look to be the originals used to make copies for distribution), copies are no problem. Just let me know what you are looking for in plenty of time for me to check and make copies. I will use Kinko's to do the copies. I also have quite a bit in the way of Vector Graphic Documentation including system disks. Most of the docs look like Xerox copies in Vector binders. I also have probably about 100 Polymorphic S-100 cards including the CPU, Floppy Disk Card, and Video Card. Most look like they have been partially assembled and most likely would be for someone who knows how to work and troubleshoot S-100 systems. I can also provide a manual with them. Lots of other stuff, but this will do for starters. From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Aug 21 15:33:21 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks In-Reply-To: <000501c00b6b$b01164b0$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> from "FBA" at Aug 21, 2000 07:30:59 AM Message-ID: <200008212033.NAA00903@shell1.aracnet.com> > Not ten year old yet but urgent... > Seens like Apple is actively trying to eradicate the powerbooks 5300 and > 190. > The article at: > http://www.pbzone.com/index.shtml#applestore > States that apple will be destroying the PB that are sent back. > Time to find those babies and protect them from doom. > Francois There is a good reason they're trying to get them back and destroyed. They're a fire hazard. Basically use them at your own risk, and if possible without the batteries installed. IIRC, those batteries can explode under the correct conditions. Zane From PasserM at umkc.edu Mon Aug 21 15:39:23 2000 From: PasserM at umkc.edu (Passer, Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) Message-ID: <95A711A70065D111B58C00609451555C07735235@umkc-mail02.wins.umkc.edu> I'd consider $20 or so--be interesting to see what the consensus is. --Mike From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Mon Aug 21 15:43:43 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: 4004 & 4040 Datasheets In-Reply-To: <04e601c00b9b$87d9acc0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <000001c00bb0$7ff47250$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> > Does any one know what the problem could be Add the slash at the end of 'files'. IE > > > http://xgistor.ath.cx/files/ John A. From foo at siconic.com Mon Aug 21 15:18:34 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: <39A148B9.16788.103BFD9E@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, David Williams wrote: > What would you consider an original Apple II (not the II+ or IIe) to > be worth? I received one and I'm going to cover their shipping cost > but want to give a little something extra for the system. Got a > bunch of original doc, software, cards etc. with it. The only minus > is the original boot rom was exchanged with an auto-start rom. But > I have an original rom which was swapped with the auto-start rom > in an Apple II+ so I can make it whole again. :-) While thousands of them were produced, in my experience they are very uncommon in the wild and not easy to come by. I'd say an original one with original ROMs (Integer BASIC, etc), and original motherboard, is worth about $100. A little more if it comes with the original Apple ][ Reference manual (the Red book) and the BASIC programming manual (the Blue book). If it has a 13-sector disk controller, a little more. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Mon Aug 21 15:19:52 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: <95A711A70065D111B58C00609451555C07735235@umkc-mail02.wins.umkc.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Passer, Michael wrote: > I'd consider $20 or so--be interesting to see what > the consensus is. That's about the high end of a common //e, //c, or even ][+. Ask yourself this: when's the last time you actually came across a straight ][? Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From ncherry at home.net Mon Aug 21 16:32:07 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: VCF Requests References: Message-ID: <39A19FD7.81EFABA3@home.net> Will Jennings wrote: > > Welllll, if I journey out there from CO, I could bring a case or 2 of Mr. > Pibb I suppose.... > > My want list: > Minicomputers > Mainframes > Supercomputers > Arcane UNIX boxen > Workstations (Apollo, Whitechapel, Three Rivers, Ardent, Stardent, Stellar) > Symbolics machines If you want arcane Unix boxen how about a PC7300 with starlan 2.0 and an RS232 NAU. :-) I used to support them, I even have the mod's to get at the extra hard disk head. I also have AT&T Unix SYSV 3.2 but I'm not permitted to give that out. :-( -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Mon Aug 21 16:35:46 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (FBA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) Message-ID: <006201c00bb7$cce56400$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> How can you tell about the original ROMs and 13 sector disk? Francois > >While thousands of them were produced, in my experience they are very >uncommon in the wild and not easy to come by. > >I'd say an original one with original ROMs (Integer BASIC, etc), and >original motherboard, is worth about $100. > >A little more if it comes with the original Apple ][ Reference manual (the >Red book) and the BASIC programming manual (the Blue book). > >If it has a 13-sector disk controller, a little more. > >Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- >Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Aug 21 14:22:55 2000 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: 4004 & 4040 Datasheets References: <000001c00bb0$7ff47250$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: <05bf01c00ba5$36e8a6e0$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Thanx Rather simple solution I'll remember that the next time i'll put up a link to a of my site Sipke ----- Original Message ----- From: John Allain To: Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 10:43 PM Subject: RE: 4004 & 4040 Datasheets > > Does any one know what the problem could be > > Add the slash at the end of 'files'. > IE > > > http://xgistor.ath.cx/files/ > > John A. > > > > > From whdawson at mlynk.com Mon Aug 21 16:53:24 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: <39A148B9.16788.103BFD9E@localhost> Message-ID: <000201c00bba$3b085bc0$749e72d1@cobweb.net> -> What would you consider an original Apple II (not the II+ or IIe) to -> be worth? I received one and I'm going to cover their shipping cost -> but want to give a little something extra for the system. Got a -> bunch of original doc, software, cards etc. with it. The only minus -> is the original boot rom was exchanged with an auto-start rom. But -> I have an original rom which was swapped with the auto-start rom -> in an Apple II+ so I can make it whole again. :-) -> -> Any comments on value? Depends on how original. The earliest ]['s did not have vent slots in the housing, are extremely rare, and can sell for over $1000.00 on eBay. If it has the slots, eBay prices are now in the $200 to $400 price range. I'd pay $100+ for one, but nowhere near $400. And, like Sellam says: >A little more if it comes with the original Apple ][ Reference manual (the >Red book) and the BASIC programming manual (the Blue book). > >If it has a 13-sector disk controller, a little more. > Bill From whdawson at mlynk.com Mon Aug 21 16:58:24 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Hidden Treasures and Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * Message-ID: <000301c00bba$eda65f20$749e72d1@cobweb.net> Second post of correction, since some seem to have missed it: To all, Please note the correction in the description of the one IBM system available below. I meant PC jr, not PS/1. Somehow, I hope this is related to a major blow I received on my head last night in an accident, which cut my scalp about 1.5 across and peeled it back about 2 inches. This would have to be in a place where I had already lost hair. If this isn't related, then it was just a stupid mistake d8^) I guess this an appropriate topic to put out the word about a fairly obscure organization in SW PA that regularly has vintage computers for sale at their Canonsburg location (and now on this list) and my relationship with them. The main organization is called The Washington City Mission, which is a Christian Homeless Rehabilitation Shelter, and they operate five "Hidden Treasures" retail stores in the local area. They also operate the Avis Arbor Women's Shelter. Drop-offs are accepted at all store locations, but they also have several box vans which are out in the community during the weekdays making pickups which are arranged by donors calling in. Quoting from their literature: "Five Hidden Treasures thrift stores in Burgettstown, Canonsburg, Donora, Washington and Waynesburg offer excellent quality used merchandise at affordable prices. Your purchase at one of our stores provides revenue for us to continue our programs. Our stores are a ministry in each community, offering free of reduced cost merchandise to those in need. Whether you are rich or poor, there is something for everyone at Hidden Treasures." I started out as a regular customer at the Canonsburg location, often finding vintage computers and equipment at very reasonable prices. Terry, the manager at the Canonsburg store, informed me they were not picking up a lot of computer equipment because they didn't have anyone to go through it and check it out. He offered me a volunteer position as their "computer man", which I accepted. In return for testing and configuring "newer" PC's for low income families and other needy persons, I get all the vintage equipment that comes in, if I want it. The word is out now, and all computer equipment is accepted. Needless to say the usual things are plentiful, Commodores, Atari's, etc., but it is great to get some systems in that are still new in the box, along with an occasional CP/M system. We will be relocating the store in the future, so I am planning a vintage computer museum section. The difference will be that, unlike Goodwill, everything will be available for very reasonable prices. We are also planning on selling on eBay. Right now we have several complete vintage PC systems for sale, and lots of components. If anyone on this list is interested, contact me off list with a reasonable offer, exclusive of actual shipping costs. I'm not talking anywhere near eBay prices here. Just cover the time needed to pack things for shipping and a reasonable donation. And yes, your donation is tax deductible. Shipping available via UPS Ground and USPS parcel post, USPS Priority for smaller items and if requested. Photos also available upon request. And if you can get to our store, contact me for directions and a meeting time. Current systems and components that need homes: Original IBM 5150 PC, dual floppies, 5153 CGA monitor, IBM PC keyboard and 80 column IBM printer. Great physical and working condition. Early 128K IBM PC jr with 5.25" floppy drive and PC jr power cube, PC jr keyboard (not chicklets), separate PC jr color monitor, 2 PC jr joysticks, and a large box of IBM software (games and educational) in the IBM plastic boxes, 4 are on cartridges, the rest are on floppies, all have manuals. Also includes all the original PC jr manuals and software, IBM DOS 2.X (I think 2.0 or 2.01) with slipcover binder. I can supply a list of the software titles to anyone seriously interested in this package. I also have the IBM 132 column printer that came in with all this. Great physical and working condition. Complete Apple Performa 637CD, Apple 15" Multiple Scan M2943 monitor, Keyboard, Mouse. Great physical and working condition. Early NEC PC, monitor and keyboard. Details if requested. Haven't checked it out yet. IBM PC jr color monitor. (#2) Various EGA and CGA monitors. Apple 15" Multiple Scan M2943 monitor (#2) Lots and lots of PC keyboards. 80 column dot matrix printers, mostly tractor feed. PC power supplies. Various PC network cards, BNC/RJ-45. I pull them from the PC systems that come in. Other items arriving just about every day. I'm going to try to get approval for us to accept large business systems also. We have the storage in Washington, and with the large area that our trucks, with lift gates, cover, some great stuff is bound to turn up eventually. My recent finds: Atari 130XE NIB, C-128 NIB, Commodore 1526 LQ printer, NIB, lots of accessories, and boxes and boxes of manuals and diskettes. If there is interest within this group, more posts will follow and nothing much will end up on eBay. And remember, this endeavor supports a very worthy cause. Bill -> This is a "GOODWILL COMPUTERWORKS". A dedicated computer store. -> -> *ALL THEY SELL* is computers. All the computers donated to Goodwill across -> the state are trucked here, where if possible, they're reassembled into -> working boxes/parts (in the case of PCs), tested, and put out on the -> shelves for people to buy. 99% of the people coming in are looking for -> a PC, Mac, parts for same, or a printer or keyboard, etc; they've just -> recently opened up the "back room" with the old vintage stuff. -> -> People that go to the store *are* interested in the museum; they've -> been doing it to a limited extent for the past 2-3 years (as long as -> I've been going to the store), but have just recently gotten the room -> to expand it. -> -> When I spoke to one of the employees yesterday, he said that they get -> offered TONS more stuff that they simply dont have room for, but would -> love to take. I'm trying to work with them to establish another mailing -> list of collectors for this stuff - so that if GWCW gets offered a piece -> of hardware that they dont have the room for, the people on the list can -> then take a shot at it. -> -> If you want the "normal" GoodWill store, where you can buy clothing, -> coffee pots, old furnitre, etc, the newly expanded and remodeled store -> is about a half mile up the street. From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Aug 21 17:00:22 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: <20000819130317.E5682@mrbill.net> References: ; from foo@siconic.com on Sat, Aug 19, 2000 at 09:38:47AM -0700 Message-ID: <39A16E36.29319.21C175C@localhost> > On Sat, Aug 19, 2000 at 09:38:47AM -0700, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > I think the last thing that folks going into a Goodwill store (the > > majority of which are there to buy items of necessity) are > > interested in is a computer museum. > > Wrong. > > This is a "GOODWILL COMPUTERWORKS". A dedicated computer store. > > *ALL THEY SELL* is computers. All the computers donated to Goodwill > across the state are trucked here, where if possible, they're > reassembled into working boxes/parts (in the case of PCs), tested, and > put out on the shelves for people to buy. 99% of the people coming in > are looking for a PC, Mac, parts for same, or a printer or keyboard, > etc; they've just recently opened up the "back room" with the old > vintage stuff. > > People that go to the store *are* interested in the museum; they've > been doing it to a limited extent for the past 2-3 years (as long as > I've been going to the store), but have just recently gotten the room > to expand it. > > When I spoke to one of the employees yesterday, he said that they get > offered TONS more stuff that they simply dont have room for, but would > love to take. I'm trying to work with them to establish another > mailing list of collectors for this stuff - so that if GWCW gets > offered a piece of hardware that they dont have the room for, the > people on the list can then take a shot at it. > > If you want the "normal" GoodWill store, where you can buy clothing, > coffee pots, old furnitre, etc, the newly expanded and remodeled store > is about a half mile up the street. > > BTW, they have a web site: > > http://www.goodwillcomputerworks.net/ > > Bill > Unfortunately in the Toronto area Goodwill has stopped taking computer donations. I'd found a lot of goodies there over the years. At one point there were about 15 DEC Rainbows in the main store. One could only hope that the Goodwill regional management here was as bright as the ones in which there are Goodwill Computerworks stores. As a result I'm sure the previous corporate donations are now going into landfill. ciao larry lgwalker@look.ca walkers@altavista.net bigwalk@xoommail.com From lgwalker at look.ca Mon Aug 21 17:00:22 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39A16E36.17659.21C16D9@localhost> > In a message dated 8/20/00 9:11:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > foo@siconic.com writes: > > > I always wondered what era the IBM PS/1 is from? I've seen PS/1 > > machines but they look 90s. And I never heard of them before the > > PS/2, although it would seem logical that the PS/1 came first. > > What's the deal? > > > > Sellam > > PS/1s were made from 1990 to 1994. they were consumer models and used > everything between 286-10 to 486-66 cpus. PS/2s were commerical > desktop machines. Most people recognize the PS/1 as one of the first > three models that used 286/386 cpus. they were a proprietary design > with small cases and matching monitors. later models were standard LPX > designs with power management. very simple and easy to fix. I've two > early PS/1s in my collection. > > david, former PS/1 and Aptiva technical support > > DB Young ICQ: 29427634 > > hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! > > -> www.nothingtodo.org > Right. I believe what also distinguished most PS/1s was the "stub" (shell) built into the ROM. This contained a Quad-screen interface with 4 choices of programs- MSWorks, Prodigy, DOS, and another I can't remember. The "stub" could be bypassed and a regular system installed to replace it. I've got a 2011 ( the monitor section contained the PSU so the bottom section is useless without it) The 2021 was similiar. I also have a 2123 and 2133 which had separate monitors. I believe the 20xx models were 286 while the 21xx could be 386 or 486. It's interesting to note that there were specific French-Canadian submodels. ciao larry lgwalker@look.ca walkers@altavista.net bigwalk@xoommail.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Aug 21 17:26:25 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks (fwd) Message-ID: <200008212226.PAA17588@shell1.aracnet.com> Forwarding this to the list, as per request, got sent directly to me by mistake :^) Obviously I don't agree with the following. Just wish I had a 5300 and $1700, I'd be jumping on this deal. Though got to admit I'd only heard about the battery problems, not the reliability problems. Zane Forwarded message: > From jpero@sympatico.ca Mon Aug 21 13:58:45 2000 > From: jpero@sympatico.ca > Comments: Authenticated sender is > To: healyzh@aracnet.com > Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:57:26 +0000 > Subject: Re: Apple Recall of powerbooks > Priority: normal > In-reply-to: <200008212033.NAA00903@shell1.aracnet.com> > References: <000501c00b6b$b01164b0$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> from "FBA" at Aug 21, 2000 07:30:59 AM > X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) > Message-Id: <20000821205838.BBUW12424.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@pii350> > > > From: healyzh@aracnet.com > > Subject: Re: Apple Recall of powerbooks > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 13:33:21 -0700 (PDT) > > Reply-to: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > http://www.pbzone.com/index.shtml#applestore > > > States that apple will be destroying the PB that are sent back. > > > Time to find those babies and protect them from doom. > > > Francois > > > > There is a good reason they're trying to get them back and destroyed. > > They're a fire hazard. Basically use them at your own risk, and if possible > > without the batteries installed. IIRC, those batteries can explode under > > the correct conditions. > > Misinformation again. That's for lithium-ion batteries recall. > Rest I hear is reliablity issues besides this lithium-ion. > > But I'm still not conviced that apple should waste time sending out > this to pull in people to give up their lucky still working 190 and > 5300 and force them to spend 1700. Still doesn't sound right. I'm > after the truth. > > 1. Is Apple weaseling out of this deal? > 2. Is Apple anxious to earn some profits? > 3. Is apple trying to clear out the performance similaries to other > powerbooks but lesser features and expansion get cramped by ridding > of 190 and 5300? > > Remember, Apple have always cut corners and skrimped on cost and > durablity, reliablity. All I think of this that might made people > happy is stockholders. > > Even the worst maker actually had similar problems like this and left > it as is and moved on without fuss. Bondwell was horrible in past, > toshiba and few others were or are like that currently, poor support. > > My advice. Turn down toshiba, compaq, pb, apple. Look at ibm, asus > and few others instead. > > Wizard > > > Zane > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Aug 21 17:45:11 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Subtle question, only a true collector can answer :-) Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000821153613.00c39460@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Ok, so over the weekend I picked up a couple of VAXen. They were both in DEC "BA213" enclosures that were mounted to 19" DEC racks. Neither uses disks that are in the racks, although one used a tape drive that is in its rack. Here's the question, lets say I take all of the cards and move them from the BA213 in the rack, into a BA213 that is in one of the roll around pedestals. Is the system still "original" ? Clearly the only way to tell it isn't the same is that the serial number on the chassis has changed, even though the sticker is the same system type. My take on it is that its still the same if it is the same set of parts in the same configuration as I got them, other views? On a semi-related note, I paid $100 for a 4000/VLC on Ebay (I know, over market, but the thing was "new" in the box. I bid on it on a hunch, and my hunch proved to be accurate, in the original documentation are the license PAKs that go with the system, un-opened, never been used, waiting for the system "buyer" to activate/use. Clearly I can use these (LMF will accept them as valid) but what is the legality question here? DEC sold the system with these licenses to be used on it, and I'm planning on doing so. Further the licenses appear to be "generic" in the sense that they aren't addressed to a particular owner. Comments? --Chuck From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Aug 21 17:34:26 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * Message-ID: <008801c00bc1$309293c0$0d0d9a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, August 21, 2000 1:14 PM Subject: RE: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * >The machine being described does NOT sound like a PS/1! >It sounds like a PCJr. PCjr was 8088, early 80s and was very funky compared to the PS/2 and later PS/1s. >Did the PS/1 have a 5.25" drive (other than external)? No external, it was internal. >Did the PS/1 have a "power cube"? No, internal PS. >Did the PS/1 have a chiclets keyboard? Nope, standard external PS2 (smaller din connector) >Did the PS/1 have joysticks? No, it was aimed at business users. Allison > >The PS/1 came after the PS/2, and may or may not be OT. Some thought that >it was IBM backing down from MCA. > > >Anybody in the SF bay area who would like some PCJrs? PS/2s? Don't make >me bring a big pile of stuff to VCF! > >-- >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Aug 21 17:50:50 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: source for W3 to VGA connectors? Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000821154933.00d7e100@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Does anyone know of a source for 3W3 to VGA connectors? This is to connect a DEC 4000/VLC to a VGA type monitor. I've got the 3W3 to BNC cable but I'd rather not have to use the VR299 all the time :-) --Chuck From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 21 16:39:39 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Thoughts on a datascope In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000821150327.02cac3f0@pc> from "John Foust" at Aug 21, 0 03:05:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1152 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000821/9f3fe3e0/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Aug 21 18:07:36 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: source for W3 to VGA connectors? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000821154933.00d7e100@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Aug 21, 2000 03:50:50 PM Message-ID: <200008212307.QAA23489@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Does anyone know of a source for 3W3 to VGA connectors? This is to connect > a DEC 4000/VLC to a VGA type monitor. I've got the 3W3 to BNC cable but I'd > rather not have to use the VR299 all the time :-) > > --Chuck > Shoot, I'd be interested in learning about combo's that work. My current solution is to just bring up the desktop on my Mac, but since the VLC is only 10Mbit, that's not as good as I'd like. Is there any kind of adapter that will let you hook it up to a Multisync monitor? My Multisyncs have both the VGA and 5-BNC connectors. Then there is the question of which video cable is even the correct one to use on the VLC... Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Aug 21 18:16:28 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Subtle question, only a true collector can answer :-) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000821153613.00c39460@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Aug 21, 2000 03:45:11 PM Message-ID: <200008212316.QAA24482@shell1.aracnet.com> > Ok, so over the weekend I picked up a couple of VAXen. They were both in > DEC "BA213" enclosures that were mounted to 19" DEC racks. Neither uses > disks that are in the racks, although one used a tape drive that is in its > rack. > > Here's the question, lets say I take all of the cards and move them from > the BA213 in the rack, into a BA213 that is in one of the roll around > pedestals. Is the system still "original" ? Clearly the only way to tell it > isn't the same is that the serial number on the chassis has changed, even > though the sticker is the same system type. My take on it is that its still > the same if it is the same set of parts in the same configuration as I got > them, other views? Well, You'll have an original config it sounds like, but not the original config for that particular system. Personally I'm of the opinion that you do what is the most useful for you! That's why my PDP-11/73 is a mutant that sits in a MicroVAX II BA123 chassis, and why I'm getting ready to replace the RQDX3 in my VAXstation II/RC with a ESDI Controller. We won't even discuss what a mutant my MV3 is :^) > On a semi-related note, I paid $100 for a 4000/VLC on Ebay (I know, over > market, but the thing was "new" in the box. I bid on it on a hunch, and my > hunch proved to be accurate, in the original documentation are the license > PAKs that go with the system, un-opened, never been used, waiting for the > system "buyer" to activate/use. Clearly I can use these (LMF will accept > them as valid) but what is the legality question here? DEC sold the system > with these licenses to be used on it, and I'm planning on doing so. Further > the licenses appear to be "generic" in the sense that they aren't addressed > to a particular owner. Comments? You lucky (*!&# I saw that system but didn't think I could afford it at the minute. It sounds to me like you just got a legal VMS license. Though I'm not sure of the exact licensing issues. You might have to pay the license transefer fee, but it doesn't sound like it. I'd say as long as you keep the sales info, you're legal, however, to get a proper answer you should contact Compaq and ask this question. If the PAKs had already been used you'd need to pay to have them transferred (last I heard that cost $300 and a lot of PAKs aren't transferrable). BTW, that wasn't much of a hunch, the photo showed the PAK's :^) Zane From vaxman at uswest.net Mon Aug 21 18:22:53 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: source for W3 to VGA connectors? In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000821154933.00d7e100@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: Ebay.... clint Ducking away from the forthcoming flamage.... On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > Does anyone know of a source for 3W3 to VGA connectors? This is to connect > a DEC 4000/VLC to a VGA type monitor. I've got the 3W3 to BNC cable but I'd > rather not have to use the VR299 all the time :-) > > --Chuck > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Aug 21 19:20:40 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: <008801c00bc1$309293c0$0d0d9a8d@ajp166> References: <008801c00bc1$309293c0$0d0d9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20000822002040.32762.qmail@brouhaha.com> >> Did the PS/1 have a 5.25" drive (other than external)? > No external, it was internal. No, it most certainly was NOT internal. The PS/1 has an internal 3.5 inch drive. From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Mon Aug 21 19:33:41 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: VCF Requests References: <200008211925.MAA10798@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <002d01c00bd0$9f9f6360$0264a8c0@mediaone.net> Do you mean YES YES YES YES YES! I'll bring some or YES YES YES YES YES! I want some? Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 2:25 PM Subject: Re: VCF Requests > [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > How about starting a request list of stuff we're hoping to find for > > trade/sale/free at the VCF > > I'll start right here: > > -pocket computers > > YES YES YES YES YES! > > > -programmable calculators > > -beer (speaking of which: If you owe me a beer, you'll have a chance to pay > > up this VCF.) > > Dr. Pepper. Flowing freely. By the gallon. Mr. Pibb even better. > > Does canned Mr. Pibb exist *anywhere*? It seems to only exist as a fountain > drink, at least here in So. Cal. > > > -laptops > > -software and accessories for the above > > -MSX machines > > -European models (Amstrad, Oric, Sinclair....) > > I'd love to get my hands on more Timex/Sinclair stuff. Looking in particular > for a 2068. > > Also, someone PLEASE be selling M100 RAM modules there -- my 8201A needs a > brain upgrade. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- TODAY'S DUMB TRUE HEADLINE: Enfield Couple Slain; Police Suspect Homicide -- From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Mon Aug 21 19:34:18 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: VCF Requests References: Message-ID: <003301c00bd0$b5b03120$0264a8c0@mediaone.net> Obviously you're not flying there ;) Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Will Jennings" To: Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 2:49 PM Subject: Re: VCF Requests > Welllll, if I journey out there from CO, I could bring a case or 2 of Mr. > Pibb I suppose.... > > My want list: > Minicomputers > Mainframes > Supercomputers > Arcane UNIX boxen > Workstations (Apollo, Whitechapel, Three Rivers, Ardent, Stardent, Stellar) > Symbolics machines > > Will J > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Aug 21 19:36:13 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: C&K 7413 switch Message-ID: <200008220036.TAA00713@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Does anyone have a inexpensive source for some C&K 7413 switches? I checked Digi-Key, but they want $21.12 per switch! These switches are used to turn Terak computers on/off, or force a reboot. -Lawrence LeMay From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Aug 21 19:49:48 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: For those not reading alt.sys.pdp8 Message-ID: <200008220049.RAA05600@shell1.aracnet.com> The PDP-8/X http://surfin.spies.com/~dgc/pdp8x/ "The PDP-8/X is a reimplementation of the PDP-8/I, with 32K words of memory (all the memory you can put on a PDP-8/I), an extended memory control, an interface to an RS-232 terminal, and an interface to an IDE disk." Looks kinda cool. He mentions in a posting that he'll post the XILINX code in a few days. Zane From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Aug 21 20:14:08 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <002d01c00bd0$9f9f6360$0264a8c0@mediaone.net> from Sue & Francois at "Aug 21, 0 07:33:41 pm" Message-ID: <200008220114.SAA03166@stockholm.ptloma.edu> [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > Do you mean > YES YES YES YES YES! I'll bring some or > YES YES YES YES YES! I want some? YES YES YES YES YES! I want some! Particularly the PC-6 -- I'm very curious about that one. I wasn't too impressed with the PC-2, but I love my PC-4. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It's not enough to be Hungarian. You must have talent too. -- Alex Korda --- From owad at applefritter.com Mon Aug 21 20:08:43 2000 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks (fwd) In-Reply-To: <200008212226.PAA17588@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <200008212226.PAA17588@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <20000822010843.20893@mail.earthlink.net> >Forwarding this to the list, as per request, got sent directly to me by >mistake :^) Obviously I don't agree with the following. Just wish I had a >5300 and $1700, I'd be jumping on this deal. Additionally, you can't have the Powerbook built to order, if I understand correctly, which is a real downside if you want something faster than 400 MHz. >Though got to admit I'd only heard about the battery problems, not the >reliability problems. My understanding was that the battery issue was over-hyped. The only units that actually caught fire were on the Apple campus, IIRC. After that, Apple shipped all the units with NiCD batteries, so it ceased to be an issue. The problem that I recall hearing the most about was the power connector. While most Powerbooks have a rim around the connector connecting it to the case, the 5300's connector was only held in place by the solder joints. After so much use they give way. >> But I'm still not conviced that apple should waste time sending out >> this to pull in people to give up their lucky still working 190 and >> 5300 and force them to spend 1700. Still doesn't sound right. I'm >> after the truth. >> >> 1. Is Apple weaseling out of this deal? >> 2. Is Apple anxious to earn some profits? Do to the warranty extension, every time a solder joint breaks (for example) the user can send their 5300 into Apple for free repair. The 5300 is so poorly engineered that they break down _a lot_, and Apple has decided it is more cost effective to offer users $700 off a new system than to continue to support the 5300. 5300's are only going for about $250, so its a great deal for current 5300 owners looking to upgrade. Truly a win-win situation. Additionally, if any 5300 owners want to keep their computer, they are completely free to do so and continue to get free repairs. Personally, I don't think Apple could offer their customers a much better deal in this situation. >> 3. Is apple trying to clear out the performance similaries to other >> powerbooks but lesser features and expansion get cramped by ridding >> of 190 and 5300? Not even close. The 5300 was actually out-performed by the pre-PPC 500 series Powerbooks in some situations. Performance was yet another weak point of the Powerbook 5300. Apple is also offering owners of Twentieth Anniversary Macs with problems attractive upgrade offers. And here I am stuck with a four year old rack-mount Mac clone by Marathon Computer because the darn thing absolutely refuses to develop a single problem. :-) Tom Owad Applefritter www.applefritter.com From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Aug 21 20:24:11 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * Message-ID: <00b101c00bd8$4d54d2e0$0d0d9a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, August 21, 2000 8:37 PM Subject: Re: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * >>> Did the PS/1 have a 5.25" drive (other than external)? >> No external, it was internal. > >No, it most certainly was NOT internal. >The PS/1 has an internal 3.5 inch drive. I'm sitting here looking at one! Machine type # 2133, model number G53. Under the folding front door there is a 5.25" floppy (1.2mb). No provisions for a external drive and it's owner (first and only) said the 3.5" 1.44mb drive was added, and she had to get a new bezel for it. Maybe a variation? Allison > From elvey at hal.com Mon Aug 21 20:41:28 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:54 2005 Subject: C&K 7413 switch In-Reply-To: <200008220036.TAA00713@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <200008220141.SAA08464@civic.hal.com> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > Does anyone have a inexpensive source for some C&K 7413 switches? I > checked Digi-Key, but they want $21.12 per switch! > > These switches are used to turn Terak computers on/off, or force a reboot. > > -Lawrence LeMay Hi Allied list them at 16.24 in singles (7413SYZQE 4PDT OnOnMom ). Jameco doesn't show any 4 poles. Dwight From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Aug 21 21:02:20 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: <00b101c00bd8$4d54d2e0$0d0d9a8d@ajp166> References: <00b101c00bd8$4d54d2e0$0d0d9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <20000822020220.1422.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Maybe a variation? Must be. I've seen about twenty of the things, and they all had 3.5-inch drives. Learn something new every day! :-) From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Aug 21 21:22:42 2000 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * Message-ID: <9a.8b5f2e6.26d33df2@aol.com> In a message dated 8/21/00 9:30:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time, ajp166@bellatlantic.net writes: > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Smith > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Monday, August 21, 2000 8:37 PM > Subject: Re: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * > > > >>> Did the PS/1 have a 5.25" drive (other than external)? > >> No external, it was internal. > > > >No, it most certainly was NOT internal. > >The PS/1 has an internal 3.5 inch drive. > > > I'm sitting here looking at one! Machine type # 2133, model number G53. > Under the folding front door there is a 5.25" floppy (1.2mb). No > provisions > for a external drive and it's owner (first and only) said the 3.5" 1.44mb > drive was added, and she had to get a new bezel for it. > > Maybe a variation? > > Allison All PS/1s came with modems and 3.5 drives. some of the midrange 2133,2155 and 2168 models had 5.25 drives, either as a combo drive, or seperately. DB Young ICQ: 29427634 hurry, hurry, step right up! see the computers you used as a kid! -> www.nothingtodo.org From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Mon Aug 21 21:48:56 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: VCF Requests References: <200008220114.SAA03166@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <001501c00be3$84b7e5a0$0264a8c0@mediaone.net> Yes the PC-4 was a casio PB-100 relabelled for tandy. My first pocket computer was a PB-100, I bought it when I went to college and didn't have a TV to plug my ZX 81 into. I loved that thing; had to sell it to eat... Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cameron Kaiser" To: Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 8:14 PM Subject: Re: VCF Requests > [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > Do you mean > > YES YES YES YES YES! I'll bring some or > > YES YES YES YES YES! I want some? > > YES YES YES YES YES! I want some! > > Particularly the PC-6 -- I'm very curious about that one. I wasn't too > impressed with the PC-2, but I love my PC-4. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- It's not enough to be Hungarian. You must have talent too. -- Alex Korda --- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 21 20:56:50 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: References: <39A148B9.16788.103BFD9E@localhost> Message-ID: >On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, David Williams wrote: > >> What would you consider an original Apple II (not the II+ or IIe) to >> be worth? I received one and I'm going to cover their shipping cost >> but want to give a little something extra for the system. Got a >> bunch of original doc, software, cards etc. with it. The only minus >> is the original boot rom was exchanged with an auto-start rom. But >> I have an original rom which was swapped with the auto-start rom >> in an Apple II+ so I can make it whole again. :-) > >While thousands of them were produced, in my experience they are very >uncommon in the wild and not easy to come by. > >I'd say an original one with original ROMs (Integer BASIC, etc), and >original motherboard, is worth about $100. > >A little more if it comes with the original Apple ][ Reference manual (the >Red book) and the BASIC programming manual (the Blue book). The last red book, by itself sold for well over $100 on eBay. OTOH I would be hard pressed to pay more than $25 for just the II. I mention this not to set some "fair" price, but as an observation on how difficult setting a fair price can be. A better question is "what is it worth to YOU", then send guilt money as needed. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Aug 21 20:50:39 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: source for W3 to VGA connectors? In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000821154933.00d7e100@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: >Ebay.... > >clint > >Ducking away from the forthcoming flamage.... Compare an eBay price to a typical DEC reseller, and eBay doesn't look so bad. From foo at siconic.com Mon Aug 21 22:28:10 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: <006201c00bb7$cce56400$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, FBA wrote: > How can you tell about the original ROMs and 13 sector disk? Usually, ROM-D8 and ROM-D0 will be missing. In the two that I have here, one has both ROMs missing, but one has the D0 ROM. The copyright's on mine are 1978, so I don't know exactly what that means. I would guess the originals would have a copyright of 1977, but these are definitely Apple ]['s and not ][+'s. I'll bet Eric Smith knows this (as well as how to properly identify a 13-sector disk controller...one clue is that it is missing the sticker that has the Apple logo with a "16" inside, but that isn't a reliable indicator). Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From vaxman at uswest.net Mon Aug 21 23:53:57 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Manual scannaging (NIA20)... Message-ID: Hi All, I have started the arduous task of scanning the manuals I recently paid too much for on EBay, and I would be interested in suggestions... The first 20 (~9% or so) pages of the NIA20 manual is online at: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hardware/6214/index.html You should be able to search on any word in the document. I haven't decided about hotspots in the table of contents to take you to a particular page... Suggestions? clint PS Unfortunately, the book is softbound, so scanning is a page at a time process... PPS The 780 stuff is looseleaf, so I am going to try out the autofeeder at work tommorrow... It's sposed to email me a PDF file... From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 00:00:08 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > The last red book, by itself sold for well over $100 on eBay. Woof. > OTOH I would be hard pressed to pay more than $25 for just the II. > > I mention this not to set some "fair" price, but as an observation on how > difficult setting a fair price can be. > > A better question is "what is it worth to YOU", then send guilt money as > needed. I agree. I say send $25 and be content. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Aug 22 01:32:58 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: "FBA"'s message of "Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:35:46 -0500" References: <006201c00bb7$cce56400$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: <200008220632.XAA50716@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "FBA" wrote: > How can you tell about the original ROMs and 13 sector disk? Integer BASIC leaves the D0 and D8 ROM sockets empty; Applesoft BASIC fills all the ROM sockets. In Integer BASIC systems, D0 may be filled with the Programmer's Aid #1 ROM. The difference between 13-sector and 16-sector Disk ][ controllers is the two ROMs on the card -- I believe the 13-sector ROMs are called "P5" and "P6" while the 16-sector ROMs are called "P5A" and "P6A". I can't remember whether the ICs are stamped with this however. -Frank McConnell From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Tue Aug 22 02:36:31 2000 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: Sellam Ismail "Re: Original Apple II (not + or e or other)" (Aug 21, 20:28) References: Message-ID: <10008220836.ZM2506@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Aug 21, 20:28, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, FBA wrote: > > > How can you tell about the original ROMs and 13 sector disk? > I'll bet Eric Smith knows this (as well as how to properly identify a > 13-sector disk controller...one clue is that it is missing the sticker > that has the Apple logo with a "16" inside, but that isn't a reliable > indicator). Look at the PROMs on the controller. On a 13-sector card, the chips are type P5 and P6; on a 16-sector, they are P5A and P6A. Occasionally, you may find one original (no 'A') and one 'A'. I forget which is which, but one of the PROMs contains code and the other is a state machine; it was possible to upgrade the code for slightly better reliability without going all the way to 16-sector. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mtapley at swri.edu Tue Aug 22 09:15:25 2000 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: <200008202034.PAA73759@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: Sellam, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 09:27:52 -0700 (PDT) >From: Sellam Ismail >Subject: Re: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open > >On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, Bill Bradford wrote: > >> Actually it does sell quite a bit of items, but they keep select stuff >> as part of their vintage-items museum. > >Yeah, and that select stuff could probably be selling for a goodly sum of >money that will go towards their primary mission of helping people get >back on their feet. > >Someone should write to Goodwill corporate and let them know this is going >on. I'm sure it's not in their charter and I would guess they would not >approve of valuable stock being retained for the enjoyment of a couple >employees. > >Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger Disclaimer: I live in Texas, was born in Austin, and probably have some local-boy bias floating around here somewhere. I agree with you in some ways. I certainly agree in that I'm very jealous of those guys (GWCW museum). They have positioned themselves squarely astride of the biggest, fastest-flowing stream of castaway (free) antique computers in the state. Add to this the fact that they have the cachet of a charitable organization to motivate donors (whereas I'm just a grubby individual collector) and I turn green with envy. Now let's consider what it is they are actually doing. Like it or not, they are already astride that stream of computers, because they are successful at their mission. Thank goodness they have the sense and foresight and resources to preserve the classics mixed into that stream (particularly the very interesting ones, like the Lisas and Crays) rather than scrapping them as so many other computer dealers, etc. do. Furthermore, they are doing with their preserved machines exactly what I'd do if I had the resources. They are building a very comprehensive collection, and putting it on display for everyone to enjoy. Admittedly the choice of "do not touch" signs is a bit off-putting, but honestly if my collection were on shelves with hundreds of people walking by every hour, I'd have it behind glass. I love the idea of teaching somebody to use my Rainbow, but *only* if I can spend the time to teach them to turn on *both* of the kludged power switches (two SPST replacing a single DPST) at the *same time*, always put the lower floppy into the RX-50 *upside down*, etc. A working, hands-on museum is of course the ideal but in a situation where the guest-to-curator ratio is above about 5, it entails a very high risk of damage to the collection. I'd also like to point out, from a more selfish point of view, that there are no more than one of any specific machine type (that I know about, anyway) in their collection. That means all the duplicates they get do hit their classic-computer shelves and are available to us (me). Again, that's at least as reasonable as I'd be myself and much better than most organizations do. (Actually I'd be inclined to keep spares myself, but then I don't have as good a supply channel as they do.) The one complaint that you have with which I really can't argue is that it's not obviously part of their company charter. However, I'd make the reply that so it isn't, but that just means their charter is inadequate. What they are doing benefits society, in that it is developing and making available a great display of the history of computing. (This is the right group to claim that's a worthy goal, right?) They also make that collection visible to anyone, even folks of very limited means, and that's something that no other organization in the state (region?) is doing. Comparing these benefits to the relatively miniscule finacial benefit they'd get by, how do we say, "whoring the collection on eBay", I find it very attractive to hope they will persist and increase their collection. I therefore hope that no-one complains to Goodwill Corporate about it. I also should point out that it *is* effective advertising, and benefits their chartered mission as such. I've not had a chance to visit their store myself - but I will next time I'm in Austin. - Mark From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 22 09:47:28 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open References: Message-ID: <002501c00c47$e5e252c0$7f483cd1@winbook> Absolutely right! What's more, by demonstrating that these "outdated" machines can be made to work, they show people that THEY can do it, if they've got the interest, hence encourage people to take one home and make it run. That's more than the local computer surplus store can do, since their presentation is of one piece here and another over there, and yet another in the heap out in back of the store, with no attempt at knowing even what goes with what. It's likely that Sellam's just experiencing the twinge of envy that you feel yourself, since these are folks who've carved out a niche for themselves, allowing them to play with stuff that's donated under the aegis of a computer museum and getting paid for it. Remember too, that Sellam's a competitor of theirs and probably resents their "advantage" in falling under the broad umbrella of a charitable organization, donations to which are well known to be tax-deductible. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Tapley To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 8:15 AM Subject: Re: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open > Sellam, you wrote: > > >Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 09:27:52 -0700 (PDT) > >From: Sellam Ismail > >Subject: Re: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open > > > >On Sat, 19 Aug 2000, Bill Bradford wrote: > > > >> Actually it does sell quite a bit of items, but they keep select stuff > >> as part of their vintage-items museum. > > > >Yeah, and that select stuff could probably be selling for a goodly sum of > >money that will go towards their primary mission of helping people get > >back on their feet. > > > >Someone should write to Goodwill corporate and let them know this is going > >on. I'm sure it's not in their charter and I would guess they would not > >approve of valuable stock being retained for the enjoyment of a couple > >employees. > > > >Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > > Disclaimer: I live in Texas, was born in Austin, and probably have some > local-boy bias floating around here somewhere. > > I agree with you in some ways. I certainly agree in that I'm very > jealous of those guys (GWCW museum). They have positioned themselves > squarely astride of the biggest, fastest-flowing stream of castaway (free) > antique computers in the state. Add to this the fact that they have the > cachet of a charitable organization to motivate donors (whereas I'm just a > grubby individual collector) and I turn green with envy. > Now let's consider what it is they are actually doing. Like it or > not, they are already astride that stream of computers, because they are > successful at their mission. Thank goodness they have the sense and > foresight and resources to preserve the classics mixed into that stream > (particularly the very interesting ones, like the Lisas and Crays) rather > than scrapping them as so many other computer dealers, etc. do. > Furthermore, they are doing with their preserved machines exactly what I'd > do if I had the resources. They are building a very comprehensive > collection, and putting it on display for everyone to enjoy. > Admittedly the choice of "do not touch" signs is a bit off-putting, > but honestly if my collection were on shelves with hundreds of people > walking by every hour, I'd have it behind glass. I love the idea of > teaching somebody to use my Rainbow, but *only* if I can spend the time to > teach them to turn on *both* of the kludged power switches (two SPST > replacing a single DPST) at the *same time*, always put the lower floppy > into the RX-50 *upside down*, etc. A working, hands-on museum is of course > the ideal but in a situation where the guest-to-curator ratio is above > about 5, it entails a very high risk of damage to the collection. > I'd also like to point out, from a more selfish point of view, that > there are no more than one of any specific machine type (that I know about, > anyway) in their collection. That means all the duplicates they get do hit > their classic-computer shelves and are available to us (me). Again, that's > at least as reasonable as I'd be myself and much better than most > organizations do. (Actually I'd be inclined to keep spares myself, but then > I don't have as good a supply channel as they do.) > The one complaint that you have with which I really can't argue is > that it's not obviously part of their company charter. However, I'd make > the reply that so it isn't, but that just means their charter is > inadequate. What they are doing benefits society, in that it is developing > and making available a great display of the history of computing. (This is > the right group to claim that's a worthy goal, right?) They also make that > collection visible to anyone, even folks of very limited means, and that's > something that no other organization in the state (region?) is doing. > Comparing these benefits to the relatively miniscule finacial benefit > they'd get by, how do we say, "whoring the collection on eBay", I find it > very attractive to hope they will persist and increase their collection. I > therefore hope that no-one complains to Goodwill Corporate about it. > I also should point out that it *is* effective advertising, and > benefits their chartered mission as such. I've not had a chance to visit > their store myself - but I will next time I'm in Austin. > - Mark > > > From cem14 at cornell.edu Tue Aug 22 09:49:01 2000 From: cem14 at cornell.edu (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: References: <200008202034.PAA73759@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20000822104901.012a2940@postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu> At 09:15 AM 8/22/00 -0500, you wrote: -very centered analysis about how Goodwill is doing a good thing deleted- > The one complaint that you have with which I really can't argue is >that it's not obviously part of their company charter. However, I'd make >the reply that so it isn't, but that just means their charter is >inadequate. What they are doing benefits society, in that it is developing >and making available a great display of the history of computing. (This is >the right group to claim that's a worthy goal, right?) They also make that >collection visible to anyone, even folks of very limited means, and that's >something that no other organization in the state (region?) is doing. >Comparing these benefits to the relatively miniscule finacial benefit >they'd get by, how do we say, "whoring the collection on eBay", I find it >very attractive to hope they will persist and increase their collection. Actually, I think that hosting a computer museum actually helps them achieve their mission. They get nationwide exposure, which helps to increase the volume of both donations and sales; it makes more people aware about older computers, and some of them may end up buying more computers from Goodwill. Finally, given that they already have to do some of the most time-consuming chores for the store (such as sorting and testing donated equipment), the incremental effort that goes into maintaining a museum is smaller. Well managed, it makes economical sense for them to host a museum, although it is certainly a long-sighted strategy; you don't see much of that in business practice nowadays. From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Aug 22 15:49:43 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Ma Bell and any baby Bell company Message-ID: Hello, Keep in mind the mindset of AT&T: Deny all problems and avoid taking ANY responsibility for the customers' problems. Remember, BELL reall means Better Expect Less and Less . . . . . >From personal experience, I would avoid (as good common sense) any Bell company for any POTS/data services. I'm sure there is a plethora of companies out there who do care about their customers . . . . . Kind regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 09:09:02 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Mark Tapley wrote: > Admittedly the choice of "do not touch" signs is a bit off-putting, > but honestly if my collection were on shelves with hundreds of people > walking by every hour, I'd have it behind glass. I love the idea of I wouldn't. I'd have them turne on to the extent possible and allow people to experiment with them with whatever software was available. A lot of those machines are very common, and can stand to have a few thousand people a year tap their keys. It's not like they would be getting any use that's excessively more than they would had they continued to be used by a single user. > teaching somebody to use my Rainbow, but *only* if I can spend the time to > teach them to turn on *both* of the kludged power switches (two SPST > replacing a single DPST) at the *same time*, always put the lower floppy > into the RX-50 *upside down*, etc. A working, hands-on museum is of course > the ideal but in a situation where the guest-to-curator ratio is above > about 5, it entails a very high risk of damage to the collection. I an see your point if you have limited resources, but I'm sure a lot of the machines these guys have stream through many times over in a month. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Aug 22 10:23:29 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: <002501c00c47$e5e252c0$7f483cd1@winbook> from Richard Erlacher at "Aug 22, 0 08:47:28 am" Message-ID: <200008221523.IAA11614@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Remember too, that Sellam's a competitor of theirs and probably resents > their "advantage" in falling under the broad umbrella of a charitable > organization, donations to which are well known to be tax-deductible. Brutal. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The faster we go, the rounder we get. -- The Grateful Dead, on relativity -- From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 22 10:53:15 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open References: Message-ID: <003101c00c51$16053c20$7f483cd1@winbook> Are you sure that's safe? Not just for the machine, but also for the public. It only takes one idiot to break a computer, but an idiot could bankrupt you just by doing something unfathomably stupid like connecting himself to the mains through your display. Don't you think you've got a responsibility to protect your entire collection by preventing the idiot from having you closed down just by killing himself with his own stupidity, for which the courts will surely blame you? Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Sellam Ismail To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 8:09 AM Subject: Re: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open > On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Mark Tapley wrote: > > > Admittedly the choice of "do not touch" signs is a bit off-putting, > > but honestly if my collection were on shelves with hundreds of people > > walking by every hour, I'd have it behind glass. I love the idea of > > I wouldn't. I'd have them turne on to the extent possible and allow > people to experiment with them with whatever software was available. A > lot of those machines are very common, and can stand to have a few > thousand people a year tap their keys. It's not like they would be > getting any use that's excessively more than they would had they continued > to be used by a single user. > > > teaching somebody to use my Rainbow, but *only* if I can spend the time to > > teach them to turn on *both* of the kludged power switches (two SPST > > replacing a single DPST) at the *same time*, always put the lower floppy > > into the RX-50 *upside down*, etc. A working, hands-on museum is of course > > the ideal but in a situation where the guest-to-curator ratio is above > > about 5, it entails a very high risk of damage to the collection. > > I an see your point if you have limited resources, but I'm sure a lot of > the machines these guys have stream through many times over in a month. > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > > From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Tue Aug 22 10:58:19 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Ma Bell and any baby Bell company In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c00c51$cb3c8800$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> > ..."Deny all problems and avoid taking ANY responsibility > for the customers' problems"... This sounds exactly like the hidden secret mantra of Microsoft. Anybody have a better one? John A. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Aug 22 11:28:02 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: <003101c00c51$16053c20$7f483cd1@winbook> Message-ID: Sellam said that Goodwill should turn the machines on and let people play with them. Richard said that that would create excessive liability exposure. Just how frequent ARE fatalities from computers? Unless somebody opens the case, "connecting himself to the mains through your display" seems a little difficult. 'Course there is the issue of mental anguish. In fact, the only dcocumented fatality that I've found from a microcomputer was from the frustration of serial interfacing: a guy paid the owner of a store to get his new serial printer going. After six weeks of failure, he shot and killed the store owner. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Are you sure that's safe? Not just for the machine, but also for the > public. It only takes one idiot to break a computer, but an idiot could > bankrupt you just by doing something unfathomably stupid like connecting > himself to the mains through your display. > > Don't you think you've got a responsibility to protect your entire > collection by preventing the idiot from having you closed down just by > killing himself with his own stupidity, for which the courts will surely > blame you? > > Dick From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Aug 22 11:47:49 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: <008801c00bc1$309293c0$0d0d9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: The ORIGINAL poster has confirmed that it was indeed a PCJr, not a PS/1, that was being described. On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, ajp166 wrote: > >The machine being described does NOT sound like a PS/1! > >It sounds like a PCJr. > > > PCjr was 8088, early 80s and was very funky compared to the PS/2 > and later PS/1s. And matches the description, whereas the PS/1 matches the description ONLY for the possibility of an internal 5.25" drive. > >Did the PS/1 have a 5.25" drive (other than external)? > > > No external, it was internal. > > >Did the PS/1 have a "power cube"? > > No, internal PS. > > >Did the PS/1 have a chiclets keyboard? > > > Nope, standard external PS2 (smaller din connector) > > >Did the PS/1 have joysticks? > > > No, it was aimed at business users. > > Allison > > > >The PS/1 came after the PS/2, and may or may not be OT. Some thought > that > >it was IBM backing down from MCA. > > > > > >Anybody in the SF bay area who would like some PCJrs? PS/2s? Don't > make > >me bring a big pile of stuff to VCF! > > > >-- > >Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu Tue Aug 22 11:59:43 2000 From: korpela at ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu (Eric J. Korpela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Museum ??? (Was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open) In-Reply-To: <39A171EC.30129.3F8E14@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Aug 21, 2000 06:16:12 pm" Message-ID: <200008221659.JAA14149@ellie.ssl.berkeley.edu> > Well, I'm still not 100% custom to your scheme of 'Goodwill' > stores (but I stop already for every Thrift/Goodwill store > when raiding (sp?:) the US), nonetheless I can't figure what's > good when they shelf the computers instead of selling it. Well, I personally would be inclined to visit that Goodwill Computerworks were I in the area. Advertising the museum make people more likely to visit the store. If having the museum make it more likely that there will be people sifting through their boxes of ISA cards, then I am for it and don't see it as a problem. I don't often stop at Goodwill, Salvation Army or St. Vinnies any more as it's usually not even worth the 5 minutes to see the Commodore 64 sitting on their shelves. If there's one on the way to somewhere else I'm going, sure, I'll pop in, but it's been a long time since I found something unexpected at one. Rare and interesting things don't stay on the shelf very long around here. In other parts of the country, YMMV. > If they recognize old computers and are willing to invest > some additional handling to maximize earnings the best > modus operandi is to auction them of at eBay and use the > money acording to their carta. I'd be very suprised if it were within Goodwill's charter to use an auction service to sell merchandise even if it did maximize earnings. Eric From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 10:58:31 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.20000822104901.012a2940@postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Carlos Murillo wrote: > Actually, I think that hosting a computer museum actually helps them > achieve their mission. They get nationwide exposure, which helps What nationwide exposure? The only exposure to that effect is the pictures Bill took and posted. Otherwise they are strictly a local concern as far as I can see. > Well managed, it makes economical sense for them to host a museum, > although it is certainly a long-sighted strategy; you don't see much > of that in business practice nowadays. You're guessing. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 11:01:03 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: <002501c00c47$e5e252c0$7f483cd1@winbook> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote: > It's likely that Sellam's just experiencing the twinge of envy that you feel > yourself, since these are folks who've carved out a niche for themselves, > allowing them to play with stuff that's donated under the aegis of a > computer museum and getting paid for it. > > Remember too, that Sellam's a competitor of theirs and probably resents > their "advantage" in falling under the broad umbrella of a charitable > organization, donations to which are well known to be tax-deductible. What are you talking about? What "competition" do they present for me? I'm not in the business of taking in old computers, refurbishing them, and then selling them to use the money for poor folk. I have over 1,200 computers in my collection. I get my share, trust me. I don't feel any "twinge of envy". If you'd been paying attention--something I know you rarely do, if ever--you'd have understood the point I was trying to make, Dick. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 11:05:13 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: <003101c00c51$16053c20$7f483cd1@winbook> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote: > Are you sure that's safe? Not just for the machine, but also for the > public. It only takes one idiot to break a computer, but an idiot could > bankrupt you just by doing something unfathomably stupid like connecting > himself to the mains through your display. Well, maybe you've come up with some amazing way to make electricity bolt out the front of a monitor, Dick. But last I checked, this has never happened, or at least has not happened enough to be a major epidemic. Considering there are millions of monitors out there, you'd think that this would happen a considerable number of times, but alas, it has not, so there goes another one of your characteristically stupid theories. > Don't you think you've got a responsibility to protect your entire > collection by preventing the idiot from having you closed down just by > killing himself with his own stupidity, for which the courts will surely > blame you? You're right. When I open my collection to the public, I'll post a sign: No Dicks Allowed Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From bills at adrenaline.com Tue Aug 22 12:09:44 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Just how frequent ARE fatalities from computers? > > Unless somebody opens the case, "connecting himself to the mains through > your display" seems a little difficult. This was a thread we had a few years ago... I seem to recall: A few people killed by exploding disk packs A claim that somebody was strangled by a vacuum column tape drive A claim that somebody was paper-cut to death by a high speed printer or maybe killed when a printer chain flew apart Nobody could verify (or even heard of a friend of a friend) an electrocution. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Aug 22 13:26:38 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: References: <200008202034.PAA73759@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: I don't trust Goodwill, they are a fickle fairly political (as in corporate politics) group. Without a "real" charter as a museum, the items on shelves are protected only by the grace of whoever the current "boss" of that area happens to be. Some Monday morning the whole lot could be in the dumpster, or the back of some scrappers truck. I know this since I have been one of the scrappers to show up when a new boss takes over and wants the place cleared out. Now the Austin Goodwill Computer Works IS a bit special, this is the store Jag works at, and my guess is that they have a fairly deep volunteer effort that would at least try to protect things. ************ Now on a completely personal level, I also think it sucks. Goodwill is a powerfull magnet for sucking up all donations available in the area, regardless of their ability to process the stuff properly, ie some big loads of computer stuff comes in, it gets a quick and dirty dock side sort with all the excess going to whatever vendor they have a deal going with. The amount of damage internal handling at Goodwill and its ilk do to computer stuff is very disgusting too. From PasserM at umkc.edu Tue Aug 22 12:46:31 2000 From: PasserM at umkc.edu (Passer, Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: OT: Goodwill's charter Message-ID: <95A711A70065D111B58C00609451555C0773523A@umkc-mail02.wins.umkc.edu> This whole thread's killing me, but that's a hazard of staying connected to the community :>. Goodwill's mission is to provide jobs and training. A bio of the founder, Edgar J. Helms, availible at http://www.makeadifferenceusa.org/honorees/helms.html alludes to this. The fact that these jobs and associated training sometimes involve sorting and selling donated used goods as a means to that end doesn't exclude a museum. The museum could very well also provide employment in a similar manner, and be within their "charter." --Mike From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 22 12:56:55 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Apple Recall of powerbooks (fwd) In-Reply-To: <20000822010843.20893@mail.earthlink.net> from "Tom Owad" at Aug 21, 2000 09:08:43 PM Message-ID: <200008221756.LAA13411@calico.litterbox.com> > Apple is also offering owners of Twentieth Anniversary Macs with problems > attractive upgrade offers. Now the 20th anniversary mac I'd keep if I had one. Sure it's grossly outclassed performancewise, but it's unique. There's nothing else like it out there. Truely a collectable piece. 5300s are as common as dirt. Another possible motivator I've heard is Apple would like to reduce its stock of the current generation of G3 powerbook because it's about to announce something. Personally I'm going for the deal. My 5300c has developed disk problems and power problems and is slow as death. The new machine will have a much larger disk, faster everything, a bigger screen and the ability to play DVDs for my wife and I while we're on an airplane. For reference, a machine to do that costs almost a thousand dollars by itself, and doesn't come with a screamin' new powerbook. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From whdawson at mlynk.com Tue Aug 22 12:59:07 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000201c00c62$aaa45a80$cb9e72d1@cobweb.net> Sellam wrote in reply to Richard Erlacher: -> -> -> On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote: -> -> > Are you sure that's safe? Not just for the machine, but also for the -> > public. It only takes one idiot to break a computer, but an idiot could -> > bankrupt you just by doing something unfathomably stupid like connecting -> > himself to the mains through your display. -> -> Well, maybe you've come up with some amazing way to make electricity bolt -> out the front of a monitor, Dick. But last I checked, this has never -> happened, or at least has not happened enough to be a major epidemic. -> Considering there are millions of monitors out there, you'd think that -> this would happen a considerable number of times, but alas, it has not, so -> there goes another one of your characteristically stupid theories. Sellam, I think you have confused what Richard meant by the word "display". I think he meant "display" as in the collection of computers on display, not "display" as in video monitor or dumb terminal. -> -> > Don't you think you've got a responsibility to protect your entire -> > collection by preventing the idiot from having you closed down just by -> > killing himself with his own stupidity, for which the courts will surely -> > blame you? -> -> You're right. When I open my collection to the public, I'll post a sign: -> -> No Dicks Allowed ROFL and can't stop. Please, though, enough flames for now. Bill From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 22 13:11:05 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Subtle question, only a true collector can answer :-) Message-ID: I'd use the licenses... the licenses I use were bought by the Denver Nuggets, though I did get the hobbyist license, I never could get the damn thing to work. I really only care about using the licenses so that the damn "unlicensed" message goes away. And as far as I'm concerned, I'd rather castrate myself with rusty hedge clippers than give ComCrap *any* of my money... I'd give DEC money for real licenses, but since ComCrap has annihilated them, too damn bad if they want money. Ok that was a satisfying rant ;p Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From vcf at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 12:17:57 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: driver-request (fwd) Message-ID: Can anyone help this guy? Reply-to: blingvall@swipnet.se ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:16:00 +0200 From: "[iso-8859-1] Björn Lingvall" To: vcf@vintage.org Subject: driver-request Hi! I´ve have an old Fujitsu matrix-printer model M3349B, but I can´t find any driver. My question is, do you know anyone who`ve got drivers for that printer? I would be very happy. blingvall@swipnet.se Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 22 13:36:00 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Lethal computers? No, but certainly painful ones Message-ID: Umm, well once when my dad and I were moving some of my Perkin-Elmers, a 3210 decided it didn't want to stay on our tractor's forklift attachment... and it left sideways, and guess who was standing nearby... I lept sideways out of the way, but it still clipped my side and sent me flying... hurt like hell, and it gave me a nice red mark across my side and my leg. Fortunately, both myself and the computer are both ok... I've also had my fingers smashed by a 600 pound disk drive... had my foot run over by the same drive, and struggled to push an IBM mainframe up a hill. However, I'm not sure whether my dad or the computers are more dangerous... he pushed the disk drive into my hand, and he ran over my foot with it too... ;p Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 12:37:44 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: <000201c00c62$aaa45a80$cb9e72d1@cobweb.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Bill Dawson wrote: > Sellam, I think you have confused what Richard meant by the word > "display". I think he meant "display" as in the collection of computers > on display, not "display" as in video monitor or dumb terminal. Actually, I think not, but far be it from me to assume the roll of Dick and put words into other people's mouths. I'll let him clarify. > -> No Dicks Allowed > > ROFL and can't stop. > > Please, though, enough flames for now. What flames? :) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 12:38:47 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Subtle question, only a true collector can answer :-) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Will Jennings wrote: > castrate myself with rusty hedge clippers than give ComCrap *any* of my That paints a very disturbing image in my mind! Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 22 13:46:29 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. Message-ID: At one ARC in Colorado Springs (prices in dollars in parenthesis): VAXstation 2000 (6) the TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 front end programs for the '11 in the system (3) An HP-150 (which I am kicking myself for not buying even though it was a year ago! 6) Will J ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 22 12:37:12 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <200008220114.SAA03166@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Aug 21, 0 06:14:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2699 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000822/4969aafd/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 22 12:56:04 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 21, 0 08:28:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1321 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000822/67ea821d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 22 13:50:11 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Aug 22, 0 09:28:02 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3297 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000822/e3bafbd5/attachment.ksh From Anthony.Eros at compaq.com Tue Aug 22 14:47:51 2000 From: Anthony.Eros at compaq.com (Eros, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. Message-ID: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F084F4B12@ALFEXC5> Betraying my ignorance, but what's an ARC? -- Tony > ---------- > From: Will Jennings[SMTP:xds_sigma7@hotmail.com] > Reply To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 2:46 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. > > At one ARC in Colorado Springs (prices in dollars in parenthesis): > VAXstation 2000 (6) > the TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 front end programs for the '11 in the system (3) > An HP-150 (which I am kicking myself for not buying even though it was a > year ago! 6) > > Will J > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Aug 22 14:49:22 2000 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: <200008220632.XAA50716@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: "FBA"'s message of "Mon, 21 Aug 2000 16:35:46 -0500" Message-ID: <39A292F2.24780.10DE62A@localhost> On 21 Aug 2000, at 23:32, Frank McConnell wrote: > Integer BASIC leaves the D0 and D8 ROM sockets empty; Applesoft BASIC > fills all the ROM sockets. In Integer BASIC systems, D0 may be filled > with the Programmer's Aid #1 ROM. That's interesting, I always thought the Integer BASIC systems only left one socket empty. That one was used if you bought the Programmer's Aid #1. This system has Interger BASIC but only has one socket empty so at first I figured it didn't have the Programmer's Aid but maybe it does. I'll have to check tonight. It does not have the original Monitor ROM. That seems to have been replaced with the Auto-Start ROM. But I have one I can swap with it. The mother board looks similar to the one in my early Apple II+. It does have the jumper blocks on the side for memory configuration. I'll have to check what revision it is. It did come with the Red Book. I haven't looked through that, why do those go for so much? Just because they didn't print that many or does it have something the later manual was missing? I believe the disk controller has been upgraded to a 16-sector controller. I never thought about anyone looking for 13-sector controllers. I bought my first system, an Apple II+, before the 16- sector controllers and DOS 3.3 came out. When it did I put a daughter board on my controller with a switch to select between 13 or 16 sector operation. Other items that came with it. A bunch of other manuals, various programs with the original boxes, 2 third party drives (can't recall the name right now), original Apple Language Card & box, Grappler Card, and some other stuff I dont' recall off the top of my head at the moment. Thanks for everyone's comments on value. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Aug 22 14:57:11 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Aug 22, 0 06:37:12 pm" Message-ID: <200008221957.MAA03268@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > The PC6 was a disapointment :-(. It's a Casio clone, of course (I forget > which model). It's got the same BASIC (essentially) as the PC4, with the > same 10 'program areas' and common variables for all programs. It does > have more memory (8K IIRC). > > The 'assembler' is a cheat!. It's not an assembler for the PC6's CPU, > it's an assembler for a mythical 16 bit CPU. There's also a simulator for > said CPU in the machine so you can run your 'assembly language' programs. > But it's pretty limited in what it can do, and you certainly can't access > hardware features of the PC6. Well, heck, that *does* suck. I take it back. What does the "assembly language" look like, though, just for laughs? > The PC2 on the other hand (Sharp PC1500 almost-clone) is a very nice > machine. A decent 8-bit CPU (similar-ish to the Z80, it's a custom Sharp > chip called an LH5801). A proper expansion bus (16 bit address, 8 bit > data, etc). PEEK, POKE, CALL in the BASIC so you can load machine code > programs (real machine code for the LH5801) and run them. An optional > RS232 interface, etc. Incidentally, the Sharp interface is > RS232/Cetronics, the Tandy one is RS232 only. The only difference is that > Tandy missed out the 3rd circuit board containing the buffers for the > Centronics port -- the I/O chip (LH5811) and ROM code to drive it are > there. The little 4 colour plotter is fun too :-) I had nothing but trouble with them. The first one I got, the plotter's range of movement was an imperceptible twitch. Since you can't get the rechargeable batteries anymore (what a dumb design -- why not just have it directly driven off a wall-wart or a proper battery pack?), I tried jury-rigging my own with one matching the specs from, of course, Rat Shack. I got the printhead to move a whole line and *then* go back to twitching. The second one I had was actually a Sharp PC1510? (I think) and it quit working after two days! To be fair, neither came with a manual, so I didn't know about the advanced features. At that point the only Tandy Pocket Computer I had personally owned was my trusty PC-4. The thing I really liked about the PC-4, and missed on the PC-2, was the segmented program space. Only having one big program on the -2 was annoying. Too bad the PC-4 has a max RAM size of 1,568 bytes, but it's impressively economical with it. I was using it last year to do concentration gradient calculations in the bio lab when I was doing research, a facility in which it did admirably, and still had enough space to do atomic weights and a game of blackjack. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- What use is magic if it can't save a unicorn? -- Beagle, "The Last Unicorn" From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 22 14:53:04 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: (message from Sellam Ismail on Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:28:10 -0700 (PDT)) References: Message-ID: <20000822195304.11062.qmail@brouhaha.com> Someone asked: > How can you tell about the original ROMs and 13 sector disk? Sellam wrote: > Usually, ROM-D8 and ROM-D0 will be missing. In the two that I have here, > one has both ROMs missing, but one has the D0 ROM. The copyright's on > mine are 1978, so I don't know exactly what that means. I would guess the > originals would have a copyright of 1977, but these are definitely Apple > ]['s and not ][+'s. The part numbers on the ROMs are the only sure check, and I don't have them handy. I think they are all 341-xxxx part numbers. Anyhow, the F8 ROM is the monitor. The Apple ][ shipped with the original monitor, and the ][+ with the Autostart monitor, but some Apple ][s may have been retrofitted. The E0, E8, and F0 ROMs are present for Integer BASIC (which also includes the mini-assembler). In a ][ (or an Integer BASIC card), the D0 ROM socket is sometimes occupied by Programmers Aid #1. AFAIK Apple didn't offer any other option ROMs for the D0 or D8 socket, but there were some third- party option ROMs. ISTR a ROM called Watson that went into D8 and provided disk and memory editing features. Applesoft ][ ROMs take up all five of the non-monitor sockets, i.e., D0, D8, E0, E8, and F0. One can conclude from this that an Apple motherboard or ROM BASIC card with less than the full six slots occupied either has Integer BASIC or an incomplete set of Applesoft ][. A motherboard or ROM BASIC card with all six slots occupied probably has Applesoft ][, but there's some chance that it's Integer BASIC with option ROMs. > I'll bet Eric Smith knows this (as well as how to properly identify a > 13-sector disk controller...one clue is that it is missing the sticker > that has the Apple logo with a "16" inside, but that isn't a reliable > indicator). A 13-sector controller's PROMs are labelled P5 and P6, whereas a 16-sector controller has P5A and P6A. It is reasonable to upgrade a 13 sector controller to P5 with P6A. This retains the 13-sector boot code, but upgrades the state machine to be capable of reading 16-sector format. In my machine I had two controllers, one with P5 and P6A, the other with P5A and P6A. I would boot 13-sector disks from the former and 16-sector from the latter, but when 16-sector software was running, it could use all four drives. On a controller with the P6 ROM, it is sometimes possible to read 16-sector diskettes, but it's unreliable and usually requires many retries. The P6 PROM is technically capable of writing 16-sector format, but since writing a disk sector requires reading the sector header, in practice that can't be done reliably either. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 22 14:53:04 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: (message from Sellam Ismail on Mon, 21 Aug 2000 20:28:10 -0700 (PDT)) References: Message-ID: <20000822195304.11062.qmail@brouhaha.com> Someone asked: > How can you tell about the original ROMs and 13 sector disk? Sellam wrote: > Usually, ROM-D8 and ROM-D0 will be missing. In the two that I have here, > one has both ROMs missing, but one has the D0 ROM. The copyright's on > mine are 1978, so I don't know exactly what that means. I would guess the > originals would have a copyright of 1977, but these are definitely Apple > ]['s and not ][+'s. The part numbers on the ROMs are the only sure check, and I don't have them handy. I think they are all 341-xxxx part numbers. Anyhow, the F8 ROM is the monitor. The Apple ][ shipped with the original monitor, and the ][+ with the Autostart monitor, but some Apple ][s may have been retrofitted. The E0, E8, and F0 ROMs are present for Integer BASIC (which also includes the mini-assembler). In a ][ (or an Integer BASIC card), the D0 ROM socket is sometimes occupied by Programmers Aid #1. AFAIK Apple didn't offer any other option ROMs for the D0 or D8 socket, but there were some third- party option ROMs. ISTR a ROM called Watson that went into D8 and provided disk and memory editing features. Applesoft ][ ROMs take up all five of the non-monitor sockets, i.e., D0, D8, E0, E8, and F0. One can conclude from this that an Apple motherboard or ROM BASIC card with less than the full six slots occupied either has Integer BASIC or an incomplete set of Applesoft ][. A motherboard or ROM BASIC card with all six slots occupied probably has Applesoft ][, but there's some chance that it's Integer BASIC with option ROMs. > I'll bet Eric Smith knows this (as well as how to properly identify a > 13-sector disk controller...one clue is that it is missing the sticker > that has the Apple logo with a "16" inside, but that isn't a reliable > indicator). A 13-sector controller's PROMs are labelled P5 and P6, whereas a 16-sector controller has P5A and P6A. It is reasonable to upgrade a 13 sector controller to P5 with P6A. This retains the 13-sector boot code, but upgrades the state machine to be capable of reading 16-sector format. In my machine I had two controllers, one with P5 and P6A, the other with P5A and P6A. I would boot 13-sector disks from the former and 16-sector from the latter, but when 16-sector software was running, it could use all four drives. On a controller with the P6 ROM, it is sometimes possible to read 16-sector diskettes, but it's unreliable and usually requires many retries. The P6 PROM is technically capable of writing 16-sector format, but since writing a disk sector requires reading the sector header, in practice that can't be done reliably either. From lionelp at worldonline.co.za Tue Aug 22 08:46:26 2000 From: lionelp at worldonline.co.za (Lionel Pinkhard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: driver-request (fwd) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Many of the old Fujitsu printers work with drivers from other manufacturers. I own a Fujitsu DPMG9 and I could not locate a driver for it, but it runs fine on either an Epson FX-80 or Epson LX-850+ driver, I don't know about the M3349B, but maybe the same will work. If not, do you still have the manual for the printer? If so, I might be able to assist you in finding a compatible driver. Also, some technical specifications might help. Ciao, Lionel On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Can anyone help this guy? > > Reply-to: blingvall@swipnet.se > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:16:00 +0200 > From: "[iso-8859-1] Björn Lingvall" > To: vcf@vintage.org > Subject: driver-request > > Hi! > I´ve have an old Fujitsu matrix-printer model M3349B, but I can´t find any driver. > My question is, do you know anyone who`ve got drivers for that printer? > I would be very happy. > blingvall@swipnet.se > > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > > From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 22 15:04:59 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: driver-request (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Vintage Computer Festival" at Aug 22, 2000 10:17:57 AM Message-ID: <200008222004.OAA13837@calico.litterbox.com> Well, my first question would be "drivers for what?" Seriously though, what little information I can find suggests this printer is compatible with one of the epson models - I'd try mx80 and fx80 first, and proceed through the epson drivers until I'd exhausted them or found one that does the job. -Jim > Can anyone help this guy? > > Reply-to: blingvall@swipnet.se > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 19:16:00 +0200 > From: "[iso-8859-1] Bj?rn Lingvall" > To: vcf@vintage.org > Subject: driver-request > > Hi! > I?ve have an old Fujitsu matrix-printer model M3349B, but I can?t find any driver. > My question is, do you know anyone who`ve got drivers for that printer? > I would be very happy. > blingvall@swipnet.se > > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Aug 22 15:19:36 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. In-Reply-To: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F084F4B12@ALFEXC5> from "Eros, Anthony" at "Aug 22, 0 02:47:51 pm" Message-ID: <200008222019.NAA14348@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Betraying my ignorance, but what's an ARC? I dunno, but I was thinking Salvation Army Alcoholic Rehabilitation Centre. Sometimes they have thrifts attached to those. Although I guess it would unlikely that the SA would be selling VAXen there :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'll be at the opening of my garage door." From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Tue Aug 22 15:36:25 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:55 2005 Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. Message-ID: Its umm American Retarded Citizens or something like that... _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From PasserM at umkc.edu Tue Aug 22 16:02:12 2000 From: PasserM at umkc.edu (Passer, Michael) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. Message-ID: <95A711A70065D111B58C00609451555C0773523D@umkc-mail02.wins.umkc.edu> I thought ARC was that compression format that descended to obscurity after SEA sued Phil Katz (g,d & r). -----Original Message----- From: owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org [mailto:owner-classiccmp@classiccmp.org]On Behalf Of Will Jennings Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 3:36 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: A reason to hit ARC, etc. Its umm American Retarded Citizens or something like that... From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 15:12:23 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > Incidentally, Apple put a demo 'inventroy database' progam on the DOS 3.3 > Master disk. The database was of Apple PROMs and listed the P5 and P6. It > also listed the P7/P8 (bit banger serial port PROMs) and the P9 > (Centronics printer port PROM IIRC). It was one way of figuring out what > 'unkown' Apple PROMs were for. COol. I don't remember ever coming across that. I'll have to look for it the next time I boot an Apple. What is the filename? > A question for the real Apple ][ trivia buffs. What is a P8A PROM used > for (and yes, it does exist, I have one)? Did it drive the printer that could be attached to the I/O port? Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Aug 22 16:15:27 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Digital Ultra Note Message-ID: <200008222115.QAA02352@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I saw a small notebook computer called a Digital Ultra Note at the recycling center. unfortunately, the guy who handles surplus sales is gone for 2 weeks so i wasnt able to obtain it, but i'm curious about it. My web searches return things that look more like laptop computers than a thin notebook computer. Can anyone tell me anything about this computer? does it even come with a floppy drive, or are all peripherals external (this is a very thin laptop, they had 2 stacks of laptops and this was at least 1/2 as thin as the rest). -Lawrence LeMay From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Aug 22 16:16:15 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) Message-ID: <20000822211615.14398.qmail@web614.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Smith wrote: > Someone asked: > > How can you tell about the original ROMs and 13 sector disk? > > I'll bet Eric Smith knows this (as well as how to properly identify a > > 13-sector disk controller...one clue is that it is missing the sticker > > that has the Apple logo with a "16" inside, but that isn't a reliable > > indicator). > > A 13-sector controller's PROMs are labelled P5 and P6, whereas a 16-sector > controller has P5A and P6A. > > It is reasonable to upgrade a 13 sector controller to P5 with P6A. This > retains the 13-sector boot code, but upgrades the state machine to be > capable of reading 16-sector format. In my machine I had two controllers, > one with P5 and P6A, the other with P5A and P6A. I would boot 13-sector > disks from the former and 16-sector from the latter, but when 16-sector > software was running, it could use all four drives. Are the contents of the PROMs available anywhere for download? I happen to have an ancient Data I/O programmer that will blow them and a *very* limited supply of blanks (the COMBOARD-I used a pair of 256x8 PROMs for boot ROMs) I wouldn't mind making a set of 13-sector PROMs. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail – Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 15:19:37 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: <39A292F2.24780.10DE62A@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, David Williams wrote: > It did come with the Red Book. I haven't looked through that, why > do those go for so much? Just because they didn't print that many > or does it have something the later manual was missing? It has hand-written notes and diagrams by Woz in it making it quaint. Also, it was only distributed with the earliest ]['s before they came out with the spiral bound manual, making it fairly rare. > sector controllers and DOS 3.3 came out. When it did I put a > daughter board on my controller with a switch to select between 13 > or 16 sector operation. Cool. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Aug 22 16:30:28 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: pdp 8/e M8655 serial card Message-ID: <200008222130.QAA02370@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I cant read the schematics of the M8655 on the various web sites, so i cant see how to configure the card for baud rate and device codes, etc, etc. The main console should be devices 03 and 04, if i recall correctly from 25 years ago... Does anyone have this information in a text file, or a better quality scan of the printset? -Lawrence LeMay From Anthony.Eros at compaq.com Tue Aug 22 16:54:52 2000 From: Anthony.Eros at compaq.com (Eros, Anthony) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Digital Ultra Note Message-ID: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F084F4B73@ALFEXC5> The floppy drive is an external wedge that sits underneath the system. There is a CD-ROM available for it as well as part of a multimedia expansion tray that the notebook sits in, but you can't have both the floppy and the CD connected at the same time. Here's a link to DEC's timeline which includes a HiNote Ultra reference: http://www.montagar.com/dfwcug/VMS_HTML/timeline/1994.htm -- Tony > ---------- > From: Lawrence LeMay[SMTP:lemay@cs.umn.edu] > Reply To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 5:15 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Digital Ultra Note > > I saw a small notebook computer called a Digital Ultra Note at the > recycling center. unfortunately, the guy who handles surplus sales > is gone for 2 weeks so i wasnt able to obtain it, but i'm curious > about it. My web searches return things that look more like laptop > computers than a thin notebook computer. > > Can anyone tell me anything about this computer? does it even come with > a floppy drive, or are all peripherals external (this is a very thin > laptop, they had 2 stacks of laptops and this was at least 1/2 as thin > as the rest). > > -Lawrence LeMay > From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Aug 22 17:04:09 2000 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: References: <39A292F2.24780.10DE62A@localhost> Message-ID: <39A2B289.8236.18950EE@localhost> On 22 Aug 2000, at 13:19, Sellam Ismail wrote: > It has hand-written notes and diagrams by Woz in it making it quaint. > Also, it was only distributed with the earliest ]['s before they came > out with the spiral bound manual, making it fairly rare. Cool, I'll have to go and look at it again then. I flipped through it real fast but didn't really look at it. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From frederik at freddym.org Tue Aug 22 17:06:21 2000 From: frederik at freddym.org (Frederik Meerwaldt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Digital Ultra Note In-Reply-To: <200008222115.QAA02352@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: Hi! > I saw a small notebook computer called a Digital Ultra Note at the > recycling center. unfortunately, the guy who handles surplus sales > is gone for 2 weeks so i wasnt able to obtain it, but i'm curious > about it. My web searches return things that look more like laptop > computers than a thin notebook computer. Hmm... I'm only aware of the HiNote Ultra Notebook-Series from DEC. It could be that it is something older, but if it is a HiNote Ultra, it is certainly worth getting it. I have a HiNote Ultra II, and it has a Pentium 150 inside, 32 MB RAM,.... it's a cute nice flat machine, and it runs FreeBSD beautifully. > Can anyone tell me anything about this computer? does it even come with > a floppy drive, or are all peripherals external (this is a very thin It's a kind of "dockable" Floppy-Station, which is attached in most cases. -- Best Regards, Freddy ===================================================================== Frederik Meerwaldt ICQ: 83045387 Homepage: http://www.freddym.org Bavaria/Germany OpenVMS and Unix Howtos and much more FREEBSD, NETBSD, OPENBSD, TRU64, OPENVMS, ULTRIX, BEOS, LINUX From mbg at world.std.com Tue Aug 22 17:06:40 2000 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Digital Ultra Note Message-ID: <200008222206.SAA08694@world.std.com> >I saw a small notebook computer called a Digital Ultra Note at the >recycling center. unfortunately, the guy who handles surplus sales >is gone for 2 weeks so i wasnt able to obtain it, but i'm curious >about it. My web searches return things that look more like laptop >computers than a thin notebook computer. Hinote Ultra Nice machine... top of the line was the CT475, active matrix, 486 at 75 mhz. If you look at the machine, you should notice it does NOT have a floppy drive... for the 'Hinote Ultra', the floppy is an optional wedge which attaches underneath. One can also attach a CDrom and speaker system to one of these machines. In this case, though, you lose the floppy. I know I'd love to get another one (mine is currently on the disabled list). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg KB1FCA | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 22 18:02:25 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open References: Message-ID: <001101c00c8d$0a4092e0$3a483cd1@winbook> True, it's almost ridiculous, but, evidence abounds that if you stand to lose enough and if your exposure to the public is sufficient, someone WILL do something that will do YOU in, whether legally, financially, physically, or any thing else, or perhaps some combination thereof. Having a museum, which typically produces MINIMAL revenue, and having displays which are essentially irreplaceable, you have to protect the contents, first of all from abuse and theft, and secondly from production of liability. Suppose someone drops a hot cup of coffee, brought into the museum in spite of the signs warning against food or beverages, in their lap because the UPS alarm starts up and startles them. Now suppose their lawyer tells the jury about the dreadful pain of having the hot coffee scald and later embarrass the vicitim because the subsequent stain looked like "an inside job" rather than a spill . . . Remember the McDonald's lawsuit? Now imagine that you're in California, where, based on TV reports, someone is robbed every 11.7 seconds, raped avery 15 minutes, and murdered seventeen times a day (per capita??? how does that work?) . . . and where jury awards have broken every record but one . . . both in number and in quantity. I wasn't suggesting that visitors would kill themselves by electrocution, though kids hiding in the PSU racks might come close. However, a split toenail resulting from dropping a terminal on one's foot could yield a few million. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 10:28 AM Subject: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open > Sellam said that Goodwill should turn the machines on and let people play > with them. > Richard said that that would create excessive liability exposure. > > > Just how frequent ARE fatalities from computers? > > Unless somebody opens the case, "connecting himself to the mains through > your display" seems a little difficult. > > > 'Course there is the issue of mental anguish. > > In fact, the only dcocumented fatality that I've found from a > microcomputer was from the frustration of serial interfacing: a guy paid > the owner of a store to get his new serial printer going. After six weeks > of failure, he shot and killed the store owner. > > -- > Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Richard Erlacher wrote: > > > Are you sure that's safe? Not just for the machine, but also for the > > public. It only takes one idiot to break a computer, but an idiot could > > bankrupt you just by doing something unfathomably stupid like connecting > > himself to the mains through your display. > > > > Don't you think you've got a responsibility to protect your entire > > collection by preventing the idiot from having you closed down just by > > killing himself with his own stupidity, for which the courts will surely > > blame you? > > > > Dick > > From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 22 18:09:22 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Old printer ribbons References: Message-ID: <002901c00c8e$02784660$3a483cd1@winbook> I once bought a Toshiba P351C (which I still have, but still don't use) that uses about 1" high ribbons, either four-color or black. Though I got this printer new, once I had used up the two ribbons I had, I was forced to stop using it by the lack of available ribbons. Toshiba never even sent me the "free" ribbon to which a coupon included with the printer claimed to entitle me and which Toshiba's representative promised to send me. Does anybody have a clue as to where one can get ribbons for this beastie? I'm not even sure it works any longer, but I would like to use it with an old CP/M system. Dick From marvin at rain.org Tue Aug 22 18:22:22 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open References: <001101c00c8d$0a4092e0$3a483cd1@winbook> Message-ID: <39A30B2E.E2D011DB@rain.org> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > because the UPS alarm starts up and startles them. Now suppose their lawyer > tells the jury about the dreadful pain of having the hot coffee scald and > later embarrass the vicitim because the subsequent stain looked like "an > inside job" rather than a spill . . . Remember the McDonald's lawsuit? I was on a jury where the judge explained a bit more about why that lawsuit took place. Apparently, 1) quite a number of people got burned by the hot coffee, 2) complaints had been registered with McDonalds, 3) hot coffee sold more coffee, 4) the corporation decided that the additional coffee sales were worth the risk of a lawsuit. There were some other items I've forgotten but that is the general jist of that lawsuit. Regardless, I think the lawsuit was just a way for people to avoid being responsible for their own actions against a company with deep pockets. From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 22 18:18:08 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open References: Message-ID: <003f01c00c8f$3bf8ed80$3a483cd1@winbook> and I thought I was being facetious! The risk is from the public and their lawyers and not from the computers. If you have a public facility, and a kid (age 8, say) sticks his pocket knife into an outlet and shocks himself, the legal costs will bankrupt you, win or lose. Unfortunately, if that same kid uses his pocket knife to cut into your terminal's power cord and shocks himself, the resulting lawsuit will still bankrupt you, and, if you collect admission, hence have cash on the premises, the severe cut in the back of the head of the third guy to rob you on your first day will yield enough legal cost to finish you even though it was only induced by his falling through the glass door when you hit him in the head with a thrown 8" floppy diskette. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Duell To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 12:50 PM Subject: Re: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open > > > > Sellam said that Goodwill should turn the machines on and let people play > > with them. > > Richard said that that would create excessive liability exposure. > > > > > > Just how frequent ARE fatalities from computers? > > Very, Very rare. Injuries are rare as well (especially if the case isn't > open). I think we can discount RSI-type problems for a machine that will > only be used for a few minutes at a time. > > > > Unless somebody opens the case, "connecting himself to the mains through > > your display" seems a little difficult. > > Agreed... > > IANAL, but I believe that if you did safety tests before the machines > were put into use and at a suitable period (3 months, 6 months, 1 year, > this would have to be decided) thereafter _and kept records_ you'd most > likely be OK (at least in the UK). Such safety tests should include (at > least) a visual inspection (no cracks in the case, no bare wires hanging > out of the power supply, correctly fitted mains plug, etc), a HV > insulation test (apply 1kV-2kV between the live/neutral wires of the > mains cable (strapped together) and exposed metalwork and make sure that > a suitably low current flows) and a high-current earth continuity test > (pass 10A, 25A or even more through the earth wire between the earth pin > on the mains plug and the machine chassis). The idea of the last test > is to ensure that if there is an insulation breakdown then the fuse fails > before the earth wire burns out. > > You can get 'Portable Appliance Testers' that do the 2 electrical tests > mentioned above and give a pass/fail indication. I prefer to use test > gear that actually displays the insulation resistance and earth > resistance as I can then notice problems before they become serious, but > for less clueful people the pass/fail indication is useful I guess. > > In my experience (and I would _not_ depend on this for machines on public > display) computers don't suffer from insulation problems. 1970's minis > (and earlier machines I suspect) were built with top-grade components and > I've never seen a transformer break down. And later machines are modern > enough that the components are still new enough not to give problems (and > in almost all cases components have been designed so they can't fail in > dangerous ways). > > As I said I'd not _depend_ on this being the case -- I'd test it. But I > think the chances of a fatal electric shock from a computer are _very_ > minor unless you're working inside a monitor or PSU (or some other > mains-connected area). > > > 'Course there is the issue of mental anguish. > > > > In fact, the only dcocumented fatality that I've found from a > > microcomputer was from the frustration of serial interfacing: a guy paid > > the owner of a store to get his new serial printer going. After six weeks > > of failure, he shot and killed the store owner. > > I seem to recall an incident a few years ago when somebody reached round > the back of their PC to plug a mouse (I think) in and got a (fatal?) > electric shock. > > I think the problem was that the computer chassis wasn't correctly > earthed (grounded) and was floating at about 65V due to the mains filter > components. The poor chap was grounded by touching something else, and > thus got a shock. > > But an earth test should pick up such problems, and they appear to be > rare anyway. > > -tony > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Aug 22 18:28:06 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open Message-ID: <00cf01c00c90$b4982e30$d50b9a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> Just how frequent ARE fatalities from computers? > >Very, Very rare. Injuries are rare as well (especially if the case isn't >open). I think we can discount RSI-type problems for a machine that will >only be used for a few minutes at a time. While they are rare they are not unheard of. The most common is small cuts from unborken metal edges, doors closing on parts of anatomy due to gravity, next is gears and wheels that grab or cut. Some systems that have hgh power (voltage or current) have caused burns. Of course there is the ever present screwdriver slipped and hand caught it. Allison From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 22 18:28:03 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. References: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F084F4B12@ALFEXC5> Message-ID: <004501c00c90$9ec97280$3a483cd1@winbook> ARC is a charitable organization in Colorado that operates a number of thrift stores. It's the Association of Retarded Citizens or some such. I've had really GOOD luck prospecting there. I once got a Trantor model 348 parallel to SCSI adapter there for $1.50. I've gotten plenty of handy gadgets there, some for computing, some for other purposes. I got a set of speakers I now use in my bedroom there. I got a number of quite useful monitors, printers, and other useful items there. A typical PC/AT is priced at $9.95 without keyboard and monitor. A typical PC/AT Keyboard costs $5, and a typical VGA monitor costs $10. The last time I saw a Microvax (complete with terminal and graphics workstation monitor) it was $20. I got the monitor for free when I helped the guy carry the uVax out to the dumpster. They were also kind enough to take ten daisywheel printers and a dozen or so terminals off my hands when my friend who was storing them for me sold his storage building. I later learned that a month after not selling even one of these, they tossed the lot. I believe that's their practice. After a month, it goes into the dumpster. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Eros, Anthony To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 1:47 PM Subject: RE: A reason to hit ARC, etc. > Betraying my ignorance, but what's an ARC? > > -- Tony > > > ---------- > > From: Will Jennings[SMTP:xds_sigma7@hotmail.com] > > Reply To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 2:46 PM > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. > > > > At one ARC in Colorado Springs (prices in dollars in parenthesis): > > VAXstation 2000 (6) > > the TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 front end programs for the '11 in the system (3) > > An HP-150 (which I am kicking myself for not buying even though it was a > > year ago! 6) > > > > Will J > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 17:37:18 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: <39A2B289.8236.18950EE@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, David Williams wrote: > On 22 Aug 2000, at 13:19, Sellam Ismail wrote: > > It has hand-written notes and diagrams by Woz in it making it quaint. > > Also, it was only distributed with the earliest ]['s before they came > > out with the spiral bound manual, making it fairly rare. > > Cool, I'll have to go and look at it again then. I flipped through it > real fast but didn't really look at it. It's a choice piece of Apple ][ ephemera to have. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 22 18:14:53 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <200008221957.MAA03268@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Aug 22, 0 12:57:11 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 7700 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000823/ca431b33/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 22 18:18:07 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 22, 0 01:12:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1199 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000823/feacb253/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 22 18:20:31 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. In-Reply-To: <200008222019.NAA14348@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Aug 22, 0 01:19:36 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 319 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000823/1c6fb8b1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 22 18:43:30 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: <00cf01c00c90$b4982e30$d50b9a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Aug 22, 0 07:28:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1497 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000823/2874cca7/attachment.ksh From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Aug 22 19:22:51 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Aug 23, 0 00:20:31 am" Message-ID: <200008230022.RAA11638@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > I dunno, but I was thinking Salvation Army Alcoholic Rehabilitation Centre. > > Sometimes they have thrifts attached to those. > > > > Although I guess it would be unlikely that the SA would be selling VAXen > > there :-) > > Why? Because certain features of the VAX are likely to _drive_ you to > drink??? *laugh* Yeah, see, the Salvation Army wants to STOP people from becoming alcoholics! ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- It's not an optical illusion. It just looks like one. -- Phil White -------- From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Aug 22 19:29:13 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: [OT] Lawsuits vs. sales (was Re: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open) In-Reply-To: <39A30B2E.E2D011DB@rain.org> (message from Marvin on Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:22:22 -0700) References: <001101c00c8d$0a4092e0$3a483cd1@winbook> <39A30B2E.E2D011DB@rain.org> Message-ID: <20000823002913.13922.qmail@brouhaha.com> Marvin wrote: > 3) hot coffee sold more coffee, > 4) the corporation decided that the additional coffee sales > were worth the risk of a lawsuit. People always seem to think that reasoning like this is bad, and that safety should always come first. But everything in life is a tradeoff. I'm all in favor of corporations (and everyone else) being held liable for actual damages. But I don't believe that insanely high punitive damages should be awarded just because the jury doesn't like the tradeoff. When you sell millions of cups of hot coffee a day, there's literally NO way to prevent a few people from being burned. I don't see how that makes McDonalds negligent, even if there WERE some prior complaints about it. When the Challenger blew up, some people criticized NASA for having dropped plans for an emergency escape system that might have saved the astronauts in an accident on the launch pad (but not in the actual Challenger disaster). NASA had dropped those particular plans because the escape system would have cost about 40 million dollars, and added substantial weight to the shuttle, reducing its cargo capacity. The critics claimed that NASA should install every conceivable safety system no matter the cost. The end result of such reasoning is that the Space Shuttle would never get built. Applied on a larger scale, that reasoning would cause many common things we use everyday to be unavailable, such as automobiles. From jrkeys at concentric.net Tue Aug 22 19:37:57 2000 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Heads Up in St. Louis Message-ID: <01a501c00c9a$632f1220$6e721fd1@default> There is a lady named Louise Barrett that owns a Flea market located at 8919 Natural Bridge Rd. at I-70 in Bel-Ridge, phone is 314-423-6335. She has cases after cases of printer ribbons and toner cartridges for lasers and is willing to let it all go for next to nothing just take it all. I could not do it as we had the small van with us and not my big one. You collectors there may want to get together and split up among yourselves. I only got a small number of items there this trip and will put a list soon along with some auctions items I got at a apple dealer sale. John Keys From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Aug 22 20:15:42 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open Message-ID: <00f001c00ca1$87464050$d50b9a8d@ajp166> From: Tony Duell To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Yes, but most of those will only occur if you're working inside the >machine. I've seen plenty of sharp edges on metal brackets _inside_ >computers (particularly cheap PCs), but none on the outside of the case >when it's assembled fully. Moving parts are similarly enclosed (and are >not really an issue for most micros anyway). All high voltage/current >connections are enclosed. And you don't need a screwdriver to _use_ a >computer. Ok... cases in point... DEC LP27 gas springs for the cover fail... score one scalp line cut for both FS AND Customer. LP25, charaband hand stopped, fingers enter anyway... customer. Oh, reason for opening, needed new ribbon. Rack full of RLO2s, customer pulls one out after pushing in the anti-tip foot... first one slides out, then two... Customer pinned against wall. FS checking out what happend and why repeats event! Customer leans against BA32 with MVII, said unit tips, customer employee nets broken toe. Shall I continue? iIt does happen even if only a few times a year. When it come to anything harder or larger than dust someone will find a way to hurt themselves with it. Or the corollary, foolproof, isn't! Only fools believe it. Allison From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 19:43:05 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: <00cf01c00c90$b4982e30$d50b9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, ajp166 wrote: > >Very, Very rare. Injuries are rare as well (especially if the case isn't > >open). I think we can discount RSI-type problems for a machine that will > >only be used for a few minutes at a time. > > While they are rare they are not unheard of. The most common is small > cuts from unborken metal edges, doors closing on parts of anatomy due > to gravity, next is gears and wheels that grab or cut. Some systems that > have hgh power (voltage or current) have caused burns. Of course there > is > the ever present screwdriver slipped and hand caught it. For gawd's sake we're talking about computers that are completely assembled, in their normal state of being, sitting on display somewhere. Not opened up with exposed, non-shielded wiring, arcing electricity everywhere, capacitors exploding, gears turning, doors slamming, blades slicing, hammers smashing, ETC. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From jlewczyk at his.com Tue Aug 22 20:50:27 2000 From: jlewczyk at his.com (John Lewczyk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. In-Reply-To: <95A711A70065D111B58C00609451555C0773523D@umkc-mail02.wins.umkc.edu> Message-ID: <000a01c00ca4$829e34b0$013da8c0@Corellian> I am waiting on a Sym-1 computer (6502 single board computer by Synertek) but it doesn't include several of the manuals and documentation. It has just the programmer's manual. Does anyone here have a spare user's manual and schematics, or photocopy of said docs for this computer? Or perhaps one has been scanned and is available on the net somewhere... John jlewczyk@his.com From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 19:46:43 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Aug 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > It's got some pretty obvious name. My memory is saying something like > 'APPLE PROMS', but I'd not bet on it. Are you sure this is on the DOS 3.3 System Master? I don't remember ever seeing that file and I'm almost positive it would have been something I would have looked at when I was actively using my Apple and booting that disk often. > > Did it drive the printer that could be attached to the I/O port? > > Yes.... That's basically it. Score one for the King Nerd! > Not suprisinging it was a replacement for the P8 PROM on the bit-banger > serial card. It removed some features (block up/download IIRC) to make > some space and added an ETX/ACK handshake mode. This meant that the card > could be used to interface to certain printers, including the > popular-at-the-time Qume Sprint 5 daisywheel. So instead of hooking the printer to the I/O port you'd instead hook it to the serial card? BTW, I have one of the "bit-banger" serial cards installed in the Apple ][ I'm working on right now. I'm putting together a pretty cool demo for VCF 4.0. It involves two Apple ][s, two of the Apple Serial Cards, two sets of paddles, and a null-modem cable. The only thing I'm missing from the equation is one Apple Serial Card. I know I have one more somewhere in the collection (buried, of course :) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 19:48:28 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: [OT] Lawsuits vs. sales (was Re: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open) In-Reply-To: <20000823002913.13922.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: On 23 Aug 2000, Eric Smith wrote: > Applied on a larger scale, that reasoning would cause many common things > we use everyday to be unavailable, such as automobiles. Or computers, if you believe all the Chicken Little possibilities that are being posted currently. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From jlewczyk at his.com Tue Aug 22 21:12:02 2000 From: jlewczyk at his.com (John Lewczyk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Looking for Sym-1 docs In-Reply-To: <000a01c00ca4$829e34b0$013da8c0@Corellian> Message-ID: <000c01c00ca7$8693aa70$013da8c0@Corellian> I am waiting on a Sym-1 computer (6502 single board computer by Synertek) but it doesn't include several of the manuals and documentation. It has just the programmer's manual. Does anyone here have a spare user's manual and schematics, or photocopy of said docs for this computer? Or perhaps one has been scanned and is available on the net somewhere... John jlewczyk@his.com From djg at drs-esg.com Tue Aug 22 21:28:21 2000 From: djg at drs-esg.com (David Gesswein) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: pdp 8/e M8655 serial card Message-ID: <200008230228.WAA06647@drs-esg.com> >The main console should be devices 03 and 04, if i recall correctly >from 25 years ago... Yup >Does anyone have this information in a text file, or a better quality scan >of the printset? http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~jones/pdp8/hard8e/kl8ja.html If people have problems with the scans on my site, email me. Most of them (this one included) are due to the quality of the original but I may have scan problems with some. If anybody has a better copy they can scan or can send me a copy I will put it on my site. David Gesswein http://www.pdp8.net/ -- Old computers with blinkenlights From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Aug 22 21:49:54 2000 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39A2F582.26866.69CE26@localhost> On 22 Aug 2000, at 17:46, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On Wed, 23 Aug 2000, Tony Duell wrote: > > > It's got some pretty obvious name. My memory is saying something > > like 'APPLE PROMS', but I'd not bet on it. > > Are you sure this is on the DOS 3.3 System Master? I don't remember > ever seeing that file and I'm almost positive it would have been > something I would have looked at when I was actively using my Apple > and booting that disk often. I just checked my DOS 3.3 System Master while checking out this Apple II. There is a text file on there called "Apple Proms". Haven't looked to see what all is in there but did notice it just now. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Aug 22 21:58:06 2000 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: References: <39A2B289.8236.18950EE@localhost> Message-ID: <39A2F76E.18025.71535C@localhost> On 22 Aug 2000, at 15:37, Sellam Ismail wrote: > It's a choice piece of Apple ][ ephemera to have. Well I looked over the Red Book tonight. It is pretty interesting to look at but I don't think I'd pay as much as some people say it's gone for. Of course I don't think I'll be selling it either. :-) BTW, those third party drives are Lobo Drives. One of which doesn't seem to be working. And the drive controller has been upgraded to 16-sector. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From dpeschel at eskimo.com Tue Aug 22 22:06:51 2000 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Apple II FAQ In-Reply-To: from "Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)" at Aug 07, 2000 01:56:00 PM Message-ID: <200008230306.UAA21351@eskimo.com> > Like someone said, I don't see any of the non-Apple II communities up in > arms about it. Atari, Commodore, TRS-80? They have their online "warez > shoebox" archives as well. But I don't hear about any fights over in those > newsgroups! The sad part is that by fighting, the Apple people have lost valuable opportunities to save their software. A huge quantity of software was written for the Apple. A lot of it is good. Only some of the good stuff is available online. I'm not sure how to fix the situation at this late date. I don't really care about the bad software, although I probably should. :) -- Derek From terryf at intersurf.com Tue Aug 22 22:19:00 2000 From: terryf at intersurf.com (terryf@intersurf.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Brain Surgeon Message-ID: <4.1.20000822221633.0097aac0@mail.intersurf.com> You guys will get a kick outta this one. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=416103748 The counters really accent the post. 8-) Terry From claudew at funcow.com Tue Aug 22 20:55:22 2000 From: claudew at funcow.com (Claude) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 2000 Message-ID: <39A32F0A.878D65EA@funcow.com> Hi 1st time post. Picked this up for $10. No monitor or keyboard. 2 Floppies. No cracks or scratches but "yellowed" case. Very little info on net about this one. Seems that was one of the rare computers to use an actual 80186 chip. Seems to "wake up" fine after nice cleaning and checking all connectors... Tried to boot from some 360k flopies with 2.11 DOS on it. No luck. Drives look alive but don't seek for long and stop. Suspect this needs some sort of special DOS or disk format...??? DIN type connector for monitor. Anybody know the pinout or specs? What about the keyboard? Most TRS-80 don't even mention this model 2000...Anybody wanna speculate on how rare this is? Started collecting/restoring a few months back. 35, college degree in electronics, worked all my life in electronics and computers. Had access to several college systems when I was young as 14 - neighboor was university teacher and gave me access to a bunch of systems like PLATO (CDC) and several others at local university... Claude From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Aug 22 23:00:39 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Brain Surgeon In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000822221633.0097aac0@mail.intersurf.com> from "terryf@intersurf.com" at "Aug 22, 2000 10:19:00 pm" Message-ID: <200008230400.XAA03041@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Actually that item has been sold at least once before. The one and only pidder must have pulled out after the auction closed. -Lawrence LeMay > > You guys will get a kick outta this one. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=416103748 > > The counters really accent the post. 8-) > > Terry > From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 22 23:07:17 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: <39A30B2E.E2D011DB@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Marvin wrote: > I was on a jury where the judge explained a bit more about why that lawsuit > took place. Apparently, 1) quite a number of people got burned by the hot > coffee, 2) complaints had been registered with McDonalds, 3) hot coffee sold > more coffee, 4) the corporation decided that the additional coffee sales > were worth the risk of a lawsuit. There were some other items I've forgotten > but that is the general jist of that lawsuit. Regardless, I think the > lawsuit was just a way for people to avoid being responsible for their own > actions against a company with deep pockets. Anyone who places an opened cup of hot coffee between their legs in a moving vehicle deserves any thing that they get unless it is preceded by a dollar sign! - don From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 22:05:51 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: <39A2F76E.18025.71535C@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, David Williams wrote: > BTW, those third party drives are Lobo Drives. One of which > doesn't seem to be working. And the drive controller has been > upgraded to 16-sector. I've got a couple of those. I believe Marvin may have some info on them (I think he knew the founders of Lobo as they were a Santa Barbara company). Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From dlw at trailingedge.com Tue Aug 22 23:20:04 2000 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: References: <39A2F76E.18025.71535C@localhost> Message-ID: <39A30AA4.15745.BC5DA1@localhost> On 22 Aug 2000, at 20:05, Sellam Ismail wrote: > I've got a couple of those. I believe Marvin may have some info on > them (I think he knew the founders of Lobo as they were a Santa > Barbara company). One of the drives seems to be working fine. The other makes the "jackhammer" sound at startup as it positions the head but after that the drive just spins and nothing else ever happens. Any ideas on what to check? Not that I don't have plenty of Apple II drives but it would be nice to have both these Lobo drives working since that's what was used with this system. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From frustum at pacbell.net Tue Aug 22 23:11:45 2000 From: frustum at pacbell.net (Jim Battle) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Signetics "Instructor-50" docs (2650) available in Sunnyvale, CA Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822210008.00b84870@pacbell.net> While I was at Weirdstuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale, CA, this afternoon, I noticed that they had two boxes full of these docs: "Introduction to The Instructor 50 (tm) Desktop Computer" and "The Instructor 50 (tm) Desktop Computer Users' Guide" both are copyright 1978. The first is, oh, about 100 pages long, and the second is 200 pages. They were intended to be sold with the Signetics Instructor 50 computer, which uses a 2650 processor. Weirdstuff wants $1 apiece. Here is a link to a picture of one: http://www.zianet.com/kromeke/pastcomp/misc/signetic.htm They go through some rudiments of computers, some particulars of the 2650, some example programs, and then the usual description of all the opcodes. Hey, it even has an S-100 expansion capability. Schematics included. Anyway, if you are in the area and are interested, check it out. There are at least 20 of each, all completely unused (although a bit yellowed). I'll try to describe where -- it is in the back section, pretty much as far away from the entrance to the rear section as you can get. It is on a bottom shelf along the rear aisle. If you don't live in the area but are really interested, I'll consider filling a limited number of requests. (eg, you have an instructor 50, or you have a 2650-based computer but don't have any idea about its instruction set). I'd rather not find, address, stuff, and mail 20 packages for a bunch of tire kickers. ;-) ----- Jim Battle == frustum@pacbell.net From donm at cts.com Tue Aug 22 23:34:12 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: [OT] Lawsuits vs. sales (was Re: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > On 23 Aug 2000, Eric Smith wrote: > > > Applied on a larger scale, that reasoning would cause many common things > > we use everyday to be unavailable, such as automobiles. > > Or computers, if you believe all the Chicken Little possibilities that are > being posted currently. I do! As long as Shylock - err, Bill Lerach of Milberg, Weiss... is on the prowl. He makes a fat living on deep pockets! - don > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > > From jimoaks at one.net Tue Aug 22 23:41:01 2000 From: jimoaks at one.net (Jim Oaks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Items for Trade Message-ID: Hello all, im looking to trade alot of my classic stuff. Im looking for Amiga and Atari ST Items, Here is what I have. Please email me at jimoaks@one.net if interested. Trade List MAC: Mac Performa 630CD w mouse/keyboard Stylewriter 2 15" Multiscan Monitor Quadra 660AV Video not working. TANDY TRS-80 COCO 3 Working 14" Monitor 4 cartridges OFFTOPIC- Act Labs Force RS SEGA: Saturn Sega Saturn- Works- Controllers work in menus, but not in games. Saturn- NHL97 Boxed Saturn- FIFA 98 Boxed Saturn- Daytona USA Loose 2 Controllers RF Unit Genesis Sega Nomad- Works Great hardly used RF Unit 1 Sega Controllers Mortal Kombat NHL 98 NBA Live 96 NBA Jam Tony Larussa Madden 94 NHL 94 Buck Rogers:CountDown to Doomsday All Boxed, except Buck Rogers GAME GEAR: Game Gear Unit AC Adapter Sonic 2 NHL Allstar Hockey Both games Boxed NINTENDO: SNES: Snes Unit- Works Great 1 controllers 1 rf unit Wing Commander MLBPA 94 Super Empire Strikes Back NES: 1 Loose NES Unit- Works at times 2 Boxed NES Units- Both work, have all connections 4 controllers 1 light gun Baseball Sim 1.000 Destination EarthStar Dragon Warrior Home Alone IronSword-WW2 Nightmare on Elm RadRacer Skate or Die Super Mario 2 SuperMario/Duck Hunt Tecmo Baseball Teenage Mutant Turtles Top Gun Winter Games All not Boxed ATARI 5200: 5200 Unit Power supply Tv Unit Controller Unit Boxed works great, looks like rarely been played Pole Position Loose 2600/7800 Six Switch 2600 Atari 7800 Atari Controller 4 Switch 2600 Atari Controllers Atarti Paddle BOXED-7800 Centipede BOXED-7800 ROBOTRON BOXED-Realsports Baseball Asteroids Baseball Berzerk Bowling BOXED-Pitfall Breakout China Syndrome Circus Atari Combat Defender Demons to Diamonds Dolphin Donkey Kong Dragonfire Dragster Empire Strikes Back Enduro Flash Gordon Football Gangster Alley Golf Gorf Grand Prix Indy 500 International Soccer Jungle Hunt Kangaroo Laser Blast Maze Craze MegaMania Missle Command Moon Patrol Night Driver Omega Race Pac Man Pele's Soccor Pitfall Planet Patrol Pole Position Pong Sports Private Eye Q-Bert Raiders of the Lost Ark RealSports Baseball RealSports Football RealSports Volleyball Riddle of the Sphinx River Raid Slot Racers Solaris Space Invaders Space Shuttle Speedway 2 Star Raiders Star Voyager Strawberry Shortcake Street Racer Summer Games-PAL Super Breakout Surround TAZ Tennis Turmoil Video Checkers Video Olympics Video Pinball WarLords Yars Revenge INTELLIVISION: Space Battle Space Hawk Astromash All Boxed ODYSSEY: Las Vegas Black Jack Football Alien Invaders-Plus All Boxed http://www.classicmag.net Preserving the Past for the Future From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 23:44:16 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: <39A30AA4.15745.BC5DA1@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, David Williams wrote: > One of the drives seems to be working fine. The other makes the > "jackhammer" sound at startup as it positions the head but after That's the drive being recalibrated. What's actually going on is the drive head guide thingy is bumping up against the stop. The disk controller boot code attempts to move the head back 35 or so tracks at startup. This is to ensure that the head always starts out at track $00. > that the drive just spins and nothing else ever happens. Any ideas > on what to check? Not that I don't have plenty of Apple II drives but > it would be nice to have both these Lobo drives working since that's > what was used with this system. Clean the heads. Also, check the drive speed with a program like Copy ][+. It has an option under "VERIFY" to verify the speed of the drive. You must have a blank disk to do the calibration with because it destroys track $22. I don't know what the mechanism is to adjust the drive speed of a Lobo drive. Probably very similar to the Disk ][ which involved putting the exposed drive spindle disc under an flourescent light and adjusting until the bars printed on the disc appear to be stationary. I believe there is an easier method. The Unidisk or Duodisk drives are much easier to adjust. They have a micro-screw adjustment pot that's accessible from a small hole on the underside of the drive. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 23:46:06 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Signetics "Instructor-50" docs (2650) available in Sunnyvale, CA In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000822210008.00b84870@pacbell.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Jim Battle wrote: > While I was at Weirdstuff Warehouse in Sunnyvale, CA, this afternoon, > I noticed that they had two boxes full of these docs: > > "Introduction to The Instructor 50 (tm) Desktop Computer" > > and > > "The Instructor 50 (tm) Desktop Computer Users' Guide" > > both are copyright 1978. The first is, oh, about 100 pages long, > and the second is 200 pages. They were intended to be sold with > the Signetics Instructor 50 computer, which uses a 2650 processor. > Weirdstuff wants $1 apiece. I have an Instructor 50. Thanks for the tip! I think I'll head down there this week and pick up a couple copies. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 22 23:51:22 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 2000 In-Reply-To: <39A32F0A.878D65EA@funcow.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Claude wrote: > Picked this up for $10. No monitor or keyboard. 2 Floppies. No cracks or > scratches but "yellowed" case. Very little info on net about this one. > Seems that was one of the rare computers to use an actual 80186 chip. I have one of these in my collection but don't recall ever trying to boot it up. Check out Jeff Hellige's site: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/6757/ I believe at one point he had one, or at least he was very fond of it. Here's the page specific to the 2000: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/6757/T2000.HTML Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From richard at idcomm.com Wed Aug 23 03:00:28 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:56 2005 Subject: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open References: Message-ID: <003401c00cd8$347dc1e0$0500c0a8@winbook> You're right, Sellam, but do you really want to risk YOUR entire net worth on the stupidity of some reckless fool who happens into your facility? Remember, there doesn't have to me much common sense or legal justification . . . just a lot of emotion mixed with a generous helping of stupidity, both belonging to a jury. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Sellam Ismail To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 6:43 PM Subject: Re: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open > On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, ajp166 wrote: > > > For gawd's sake we're talking about computers that are completely > assembled, in their normal state of being, sitting on display somewhere. > Not opened up with exposed, non-shielded wiring, arcing electricity > everywhere, capacitors exploding, gears turning, doors slamming, blades > slicing, hammers smashing, ETC. > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > > From richard at idcomm.com Wed Aug 23 03:02:09 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: [OT] Lawsuits vs. sales (was Re: Lethal computers? (was: GoodwillComputerworks Museum is open) References: Message-ID: <003e01c00cd8$7098b860$0500c0a8@winbook> it's because people who've been through the mill once or twice down at the court-house are " a little chicken." Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Sellam Ismail To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [OT] Lawsuits vs. sales (was Re: Lethal computers? (was: GoodwillComputerworks Museum is open) > On 23 Aug 2000, Eric Smith wrote: > > > Applied on a larger scale, that reasoning would cause many common things > > we use everyday to be unavailable, such as automobiles. > > Or computers, if you believe all the Chicken Little possibilities that are > being posted currently. > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > > From richard at idcomm.com Wed Aug 23 03:05:37 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open References: Message-ID: <004e01c00cd8$ec716ea0$0500c0a8@winbook> You're right, Don, but it seems the fact that stupidity isn't illegal makes it a justification for suing when it leads somewhere unpleasant. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Maslin To: Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 10:07 PM Subject: Re: Lethal computers? (was: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open > > > On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Marvin wrote: > > > I was on a jury where the judge explained a bit more about why that lawsuit > > > Anyone who places an opened cup of hot coffee between their legs in a > moving vehicle deserves any thing that they get unless it is preceded by > a dollar sign! > - don > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Aug 22 19:31:01 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000822193101.347fff2e@mailhost.intellistar.net> It might be Aircraft Radio Corporation, makers of the well known ARC-5 radio, but somehow I doubt it. Joe At 02:47 PM 8/22/00 -0500, you wrote: >Betraying my ignorance, but what's an ARC? > >-- Tony > >> ---------- >> From: Will Jennings[SMTP:xds_sigma7@hotmail.com] >> Reply To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 2:46 PM >> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >> Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. >> >> At one ARC in Colorado Springs (prices in dollars in parenthesis): >> VAXstation 2000 (6) >> the TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 front end programs for the '11 in the system (3) >> An HP-150 (which I am kicking myself for not buying even though it was a >> year ago! 6) >> >> Will J >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com >> > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Aug 23 08:59:04 2000 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Brain Surgeon In-Reply-To: <200008230400.XAA03041@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <13573706922.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> They got it wrong - It's really set to 07752525! ^_^ ------- From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 23 09:44:05 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Sellam Ismail wrote: > of a Lobo drive. Probably very similar to the Disk ][ which involved > putting the exposed drive spindle disc under an flourescent light and > adjusting until the bars printed on the disc appear to be stationary. I > believe there is an easier method. Oh wait a second. Big duh. I guess I was still stuck in general knowledge mode. The easier method is to use Copy ][+ to display the drive speed and then adjust with the microscrew. The flourescent light method was for if you didn't have software to indicate the drive speed for you :) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 23 11:08:09 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Lobo drives (was: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I don't know what the mechanism is to adjust the drive speed > of a Lobo drive. Did Lobo make drives?? I thought that they just made the boxes and stuffed them with existing drives (Shugart, etc.) Later, however, they did make an "Expansion Interface" for TRS80s, which then dumped them into having to get into OS's, which brought about LSI/L-DOS. From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 23 11:16:50 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 2000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The model 2000 used 96TPI DD ("720K") 5.25" drives. As such, it had a divergent disk format. It is physically possible for those to read 360K, but I don't know whether RS provided appropriate software patches to do so. The OS for it would PROBABLY be a version of either MS-DOS 1.25 or 2.11 (which were versions of MS-DOS that explicitly supported/promoted deviations from PC-DOS). IO.SYS and MODE.COM (and maybe FORMAT.COM) will be different from what is in ANY other manufacturer's version of 2.11. RS was PROUD of the differences between the 2000 and the IBM PC. It showed that it was NOT just a wannabe clone, and that RS was too stupid to understand the lethal consequences of incompatibility. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From dlw at trailingedge.com Wed Aug 23 11:41:20 2000 From: dlw at trailingedge.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Lobo drives (was: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39A3B860.23611.91F100@localhost> On 23 Aug 2000, at 9:08, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > Did Lobo make drives?? > > I thought that they just made the boxes and stuffed them with existing > drives (Shugart, etc.) Well the drives I have look like the Shugart drives used in my Apple Disk II drives. In fact, everything inside looks exactly the same with the exception of a Lobo logo in place of the Apple logo on the board inside the drive. But I haven't looked at it too closely yet. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@trailingedge.com http://www.trailingedge.com From Mzthompson at aol.com Wed Aug 23 11:41:26 2000 From: Mzthompson at aol.com (Mzthompson@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Question Message-ID: <4c.97dd29f.26d558b6@aol.com> Does someone on the list have any knowledge about the DEC AUI terminator and loopback plugs. terminator p/n 12-22196-01 loopback p/n 12-22196-02 Both of these only have 6 pins, shown below with their signals: 3 TX+ 5 RX+ 6 +12v return 10 TX- 12 RX- 13 +12v I tried to determined how they are wired with a VOM, but even on the Rx20k scale, I could not find any continuity among the pins. TIA Mike From lgwalker at look.ca Wed Aug 23 11:57:52 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 2000 In-Reply-To: References: <39A32F0A.878D65EA@funcow.com> Message-ID: <39A3CA50.18162.14842D9@localhost> > On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Claude wrote: > > > Picked this up for $10. No monitor or keyboard. 2 Floppies. No > > cracks or scratches but "yellowed" case. Very little info on net > > about this one. Seems that was one of the rare computers to use an > > actual 80186 chip. > > I have one of these in my collection but don't recall ever trying to > boot it up. > > Check out Jeff Hellige's site: > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/6757/ > > I believe at one point he had one, or at least he was very fond of it. > Here's the page specific to the 2000: > > http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/6757/T2000.HTML > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue > and Danger > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > Thanks for reminding me of this site Sam. I'd forgotten what a rich source of resources for all platforms it is. A bonus is the lack of graphics-candy to slow you down. Tim Manns site IIRC also has a wealth of TRS resources and another which I can't find in my URLs or archives was something like (salty ?)dogs site. You listening Merch ? (who also has pointers to TRS sites) I also miss Ward Griffiths informed TRS contributions if not his Libertarian diatribes. A welcome relief from Dicks dreary anal- retentive accountants viewpoint. ciao larry ciao larry ciao larry lgwalker@look.ca walkers@altavista.net bigwalk@xoommail.com From lgwalker at look.ca Wed Aug 23 11:57:52 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * In-Reply-To: <008801c00bc1$309293c0$0d0d9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <39A3CA50.86.14841E2@localhost> > >The machine being described does NOT sound like a PS/1! > >It sounds like a PCJr. > > PCjr was 8088, early 80s and was very funky compared to the PS/2 > and later PS/1s. > > >Did the PS/1 have a 5.25" drive (other than external)? > > No external, it was internal. > > >Did the PS/1 have a "power cube"? > > No, internal PS. > > >Did the PS/1 have a chiclets keyboard? > > Nope, standard external PS2 (smaller din connector) > > >Did the PS/1 have joysticks? > > No, it was aimed at business users. > > Allison > > > >The PS/1 came after the PS/2, and may or may not be OT. Some thought > that > >it was IBM backing down from MCA. The PS/1 was definitely aimed at the consumer market. My 2133-e11 has both 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 internal FDDs, a com port, and a riser with provisions for 3 add-in cards, one of which was an internal modem to use the Prodigy hookup in the shell interface. Some of the earlier ones had a modem on the motherboard like the Kaypro did. Of course one could use joysticks with a Sound-Blaster card. It also came with a HD and 2x 72-pin SIMM slots The PS/2s continued long after the PS/1 was phased out for the Value-Point and later the Ambra which were also aimed at the lower priced consumer market. ciao larry lgwalker@look.ca walkers@altavista.net bigwalk@xoommail.com From lgwalker at look.ca Wed Aug 23 11:57:52 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39A3CA50.2147.1484242@localhost> > I don't trust Goodwill, they are a fickle fairly political (as in > corporate politics) group. Without a "real" charter as a museum, the > items on shelves are protected only by the grace of whoever the > current "boss" of that area happens to be. Some Monday morning the > whole lot could be in the dumpster, or the back of some scrappers > truck. > > I know this since I have been one of the scrappers to show up when a > new boss takes over and wants the place cleared out. > > Now the Austin Goodwill Computer Works IS a bit special, this is the > store Jag works at, and my guess is that they have a fairly deep > volunteer effort that would at least try to protect things. > > ************ > > Now on a completely personal level, I also think it sucks. Goodwill is > a powerfull magnet for sucking up all donations available in the area, > regardless of their ability to process the stuff properly, ie some big > loads of computer stuff comes in, it gets a quick and dirty dock side > sort with all the excess going to whatever vendor they have a deal > going with. The amount of damage internal handling at Goodwill and its > ilk do to computer stuff is very disgusting too. > > I agree. They claim to provide job training as their charitable offering but from what I can see, that is only as dockside workers or sales clerks, and they suck up most of the donations in a region that could be used for thift shops like Sally-Ann that do provide help from the proceeds for societies casualties. For those that missed Mikes' reference to "Jag" : He had a great software site for users of old Macs until forced to shut down by Apple. ciao larry lgwalker@look.ca walkers@altavista.net bigwalk@xoommail.com From lgwalker at look.ca Wed Aug 23 12:32:29 2000 From: lgwalker at look.ca (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 2000 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <39A3D26D.26104.167F64A@localhost> > The model 2000 used 96TPI DD ("720K") 5.25" drives. As such, it had a > divergent disk format. It is physically possible for those to read > 360K, but I don't know whether RS provided appropriate software > patches to do so. > > The OS for it would PROBABLY be a version of either MS-DOS 1.25 or > 2.11 (which were versions of MS-DOS that explicitly supported/promoted > deviations from PC-DOS). IO.SYS and MODE.COM (and maybe FORMAT.COM) > will be different from what is in ANY other manufacturer's version of > 2.11. > > RS was PROUD of the differences between the 2000 and the IBM PC. It > showed that it was NOT just a wannabe clone, and that RS was too > stupid to understand the lethal consequences of incompatibility. I have a model 1060 Tandy 5 1/4 360 external FDD. I had always thought it was for a Tandy m.2k. Do you know what it can be used for ? I know it can't be used on my 1000SX. It has the 13 pin edge connector. ciai larry lgwalker@look.ca walkers@altavista.net bigwalk@xoommail.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Aug 23 13:14:47 2000 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open - * Message-ID: <200008231815.NAA26624@opal.tseinc.com> In a message dated Wed, 23 Aug 2000 1:12:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, "Lawrence Walker" writes: << > >The machine being described does NOT sound like a PS/1! > >It sounds like a PCJr. > > PCjr was 8088, early 80s and was very funky compared to the PS/2 > and later PS/1s. > > >Did the PS/1 have a 5.25" drive (other than external)? > > No external, it was internal. > > >Did the PS/1 have a "power cube"? > > No, internal PS. > > >Did the PS/1 have a chiclets keyboard? > > Nope, standard external PS2 (smaller din connector) > > >Did the PS/1 have joysticks? > > No, it was aimed at business users. > > Allison > > > >The PS/1 came after the PS/2, and may or may not be OT. Some thought > that > >it was IBM backing down from MCA. The PS/1 was definitely aimed at the consumer market. :My :2133-e11 has both 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 internal FDDs, a com :port, and a :riser with provisions for 3 add-in cards, one of which :was an :internal modem to use the Prodigy hookup in the shell :interface. :Some of the earlier ones had a modem on the motherboard :like the Kaypro did. Of course one could use joysticks :with :a Sound-Blaster card. It also came with a HD and 2x :72-pin :SIMM slots : The PS/2s continued long after the PS/1 was phased out :for :the Value-Point and later the Ambra which were also :aimed :at the lower priced consumer market. both the PS/1 and PS/2 series ended around 1994. the valuepoint was a more standard ISA bus machine announced in 1992-1993 and was designed for the corporate market like the PS/2. The valuepoints then gave way to the PC300 and PC700 series desktops of a few years ago. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 23 13:08:26 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Aug 22, 0 05:46:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1875 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000823/177bf9ad/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 23 12:21:18 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 2000 In-Reply-To: <39A3CA50.18162.14842D9@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Aug 2000, Lawrence Walker wrote: > Thanks for reminding me of this site Sam. I'd forgotten what a rich All the links I spew are contain in the VCF Link Library: http://www.vintage.org/cgi-bin/links.pl If you ever have trouble remembering a site, just go there, pick the appropriate category or machine, and it'll probably be there. > I also miss Ward Griffiths informed TRS contributions if not his > Libertarian diatribes. A welcome relief from Dicks dreary anal- > retentive accountants viewpoint. I wonder what would happen if you got the two of them in a room together? I shudder at the thought.. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 23 13:12:11 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 2000 In-Reply-To: <39A32F0A.878D65EA@funcow.com> from "Claude" at Aug 22, 0 09:55:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 991 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000823/9d7dacf6/attachment.ksh From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Aug 23 13:34:30 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Goodwill Computerworks Museum is open In-Reply-To: <39A3CA50.2147.1484242@localhost>; from lgwalker@look.ca on Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 12:57:52PM -0400 References: <39A3CA50.2147.1484242@localhost> Message-ID: <20000823133429.I2772@mrbill.net> On Wed, Aug 23, 2000 at 12:57:52PM -0400, Lawrence Walker wrote: > For those that missed Mikes' reference to "Jag" : He had a great > software site for users of old Macs until forced to shut down by > Apple. > ciao larry One thing I have to admit, GWCW does a good job of setting up buyers of old Macs with the freely-copyable older versions of MacOS, and have even been installing Debian Linux on the systems that are capable of it, lately.... Bill -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From celt at chisp.net Wed Aug 23 14:08:51 2000 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. In-Reply-To: <004501c00c90$9ec97280$3a483cd1@winbook> References: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F084F4B12@ALFEXC5> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000823130506.00abd680@edison.chisp.net> Perhaps the pricing is set at the ARC stores, independent of the others. One or two in Denver seem to have caught on that these computers are worth something to someone. I saw a stripped down Apple IIgs (no monitor, disk drive, etc) with a $49.99 price tag last week; this was the same store that used to sell "loaded" IIgs, IIe and IIc systems for less than $10. The Mac SE next to it was tagged at $75.00. At 05:28 PM 8/22/00 -0600, you wrote: >ARC is a charitable organization in Colorado that operates a number of >thrift stores. It's the Association of Retarded Citizens or some such. >I've had really GOOD luck prospecting there. > >I once got a Trantor model 348 parallel to SCSI adapter there for $1.50. >I've gotten plenty of handy gadgets there, some for computing, some for >other purposes. I got a set of speakers I now use in my bedroom there. I >got a number of quite useful monitors, printers, and other useful items >there. A typical PC/AT is priced at $9.95 without keyboard and monitor. A >typical PC/AT Keyboard costs $5, and a typical VGA monitor costs $10. > >The last time I saw a Microvax (complete with terminal and graphics >workstation monitor) it was $20. I got the monitor for free when I helped >the guy carry the uVax out to the dumpster. > >They were also kind enough to take ten daisywheel printers and a dozen or so >terminals off my hands when my friend who was storing them for me sold his >storage building. I later learned that a month after not selling even one >of these, they tossed the lot. I believe that's their practice. After a >month, it goes into the dumpster. > >Dick > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Eros, Anthony >To: >Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 1:47 PM >Subject: RE: A reason to hit ARC, etc. > > > > Betraying my ignorance, but what's an ARC? > > > > -- Tony > > > > > ---------- > > > From: Will Jennings[SMTP:xds_sigma7@hotmail.com] > > > Reply To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 2:46 PM > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. > > > > > > At one ARC in Colorado Springs (prices in dollars in parenthesis): > > > VAXstation 2000 (6) > > > the TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 front end programs for the '11 in the system (3) > > > An HP-150 (which I am kicking myself for not buying even though it was a > > > year ago! 6) > > > > > > Will J > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > From richard at idcomm.com Wed Aug 23 15:02:49 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. References: <3CD591440EF3D111BF1400104B72117F084F4B12@ALFEXC5> <4.3.2.7.2.20000823130506.00abd680@edison.chisp.net> Message-ID: <002701c00d3d$1da395c0$0500c0a8@winbook> I've gotten the impression that the prices are set in each individual store. Moreover, I've never known the guys who set prices to know much about what they're pricing. It's not unusual to see an item (not just among computers) priced higher than retail and the one next to it priced WAY below. It's also not unusual to see identical items with significantly different prices, depending on where they sit. You won't often find items sitting together with different prices, but if you look around, you never know. As a general rule, the less a guy knows, the higher his prices will be. I've seen similar items on the shelves in different ARC stores with 5x price difference. Since prices are set when items are put out on the shelves, they can vary considerably depending on who does the work. After they've sat on the shelf for a time, the price automatically (by color code) is cut in half. That's the time to snag an item. Often if you find two items, one coded for quick sale and one not, it's easy to get them both at the lower price by simply asking the cashier. If you don't like the price on something, you need merely wait until it's at half-price. If you complain about the price, it can depend on who hears the complaint, but you may get a significant reduction. I've been asked, "how much will you pay?" from time to time. That puts me on the spot, because I do want to be fair. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Maginnis To: Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 1:08 PM Subject: Re: A reason to hit ARC, etc. > Perhaps the pricing is set at the ARC stores, independent of the > others. One or two in Denver seem to have caught on that these computers > are worth something to someone. I saw a stripped down Apple IIgs (no > monitor, disk drive, etc) with a $49.99 price tag last week; this was the > same store that used to sell "loaded" IIgs, IIe and IIc systems for less > than $10. The Mac SE next to it was tagged at $75.00. > > At 05:28 PM 8/22/00 -0600, you wrote: > >ARC is a charitable organization in Colorado that operates a number of > >thrift stores. It's the Association of Retarded Citizens or some such. > >I've had really GOOD luck prospecting there. > > > >I once got a Trantor model 348 parallel to SCSI adapter there for $1.50. > >I've gotten plenty of handy gadgets there, some for computing, some for > >other purposes. I got a set of speakers I now use in my bedroom there. I > >got a number of quite useful monitors, printers, and other useful items > >there. A typical PC/AT is priced at $9.95 without keyboard and monitor. A > >typical PC/AT Keyboard costs $5, and a typical VGA monitor costs $10. > > > >The last time I saw a Microvax (complete with terminal and graphics > >workstation monitor) it was $20. I got the monitor for free when I helped > >the guy carry the uVax out to the dumpster. > > > >They were also kind enough to take ten daisywheel printers and a dozen or so > >terminals off my hands when my friend who was storing them for me sold his > >storage building. I later learned that a month after not selling even one > >of these, they tossed the lot. I believe that's their practice. After a > >month, it goes into the dumpster. > > > >Dick > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Eros, Anthony > >To: > >Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 1:47 PM > >Subject: RE: A reason to hit ARC, etc. > > > > > > > Betraying my ignorance, but what's an ARC? > > > > > > -- Tony > > > > > > > ---------- > > > > From: Will Jennings[SMTP:xds_sigma7@hotmail.com] > > > > Reply To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 2:46 PM > > > > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > > > > Subject: A reason to hit ARC, etc. > > > > > > > > At one ARC in Colorado Springs (prices in dollars in parenthesis): > > > > VAXstation 2000 (6) > > > > the TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 front end programs for the '11 in the system (3) > > > > An HP-150 (which I am kicking myself for not buying even though it was a > > > > year ago! 6) > > > > > > > > Will J > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > From bill_r at inetnebr.com Wed Aug 23 15:33:31 2000 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: LAST CALL! PDP 11/23 & Drives Message-ID: <44d8qs03mh1lsggthepk3qjkfj3kbtc6d8@4ax.com> To repeat my previous message: I just got a call from a gentleman I spoke to some time back who works at a public television station. They have two PDP 11/23 CPU cards in chassis, plus a full set of peripheral cards (not sure of details), and two RL02 drives, probably with several disk packs. This is basically one operational system plus a spare CPU and chassis. They would like to get them out of there sometime this week. If you're interested, let me know and I'll get you in touch with the right person. --- Located in South Dakota, 2 or 3 hours drive from me, I believe. These are probably going to hit the dumpster unless someone rescues them. I'm not into PDP stuff, but will do what I can to help if someone wants these items. Act now - time is running out! Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com Home of Fun with Molten Metal, technological oddities, and the original COSMAC Elf computer simulator! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 23 13:33:11 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Questionr In-Reply-To: <4c.97dd29f.26d558b6@aol.com> from "Mzthompson@aol.com" at Aug 23, 0 12:41:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 648 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000823/158bd811/attachment.ksh From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Aug 23 16:14:00 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Questionr In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Aug 23, 2000 07:33:11 PM Message-ID: <200008232114.PAA18418@calico.litterbox.com> > I have an idea that the LED and a suitable series resistor go between the > +12V and Ground pins, and that there are capacitors (and no, I can't > remember the value) between Tx+ and Rx+, and between Tx- and Rx-. > > That's something of a guess, so if it doesn't work, don't blame me, but > it might be a start for working out what's inside. > > -tony Um... I have a vaxstation 3100 in need of a 10baseT transciever. I CAN just use an ordinary aui-10bT transciever, right? -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rivie at teraglobal.com Wed Aug 23 16:59:06 2000 From: rivie at teraglobal.com (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Questionr In-Reply-To: <200008232114.PAA18418@calico.litterbox.com> References: <200008232114.PAA18418@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: >Um... I have a vaxstation 3100 in need of a 10baseT transciever. I CAN just >use an ordinary aui-10bT transciever, right? Absolutely. I've used such a beast on a 3100 with no problems (modulo not having enough memory in my machine to rebuild the NetBSD kernel in anything under a month). -- Roger Ivie rivie@teraglobal.com Not speaking for TeraGlobal Communications Corporation From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Aug 23 17:32:04 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Questionr In-Reply-To: from Roger Ivie at "Aug 23, 0 03:59:06 pm" Message-ID: <200008232232.PAA08954@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > Absolutely. I've used such a beast on a 3100 with no problems (modulo > not having enough memory in my machine to rebuild the NetBSD kernel > in anything under a month). Only on a classic computer mailing list would people use "modulo" as a conjunction and probably no one besides a linguist like myself would bat an eye. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- If you don't have a nasty obituary you probably didn't matter. -- F. Dyson - From richard at idcomm.com Wed Aug 23 17:29:53 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: LAST CALL! PDP 11/23 & Drives References: <44d8qs03mh1lsggthepk3qjkfj3kbtc6d8@4ax.com> Message-ID: <004701c00d51$a90d3120$0500c0a8@winbook> Does Emanuel Stiebler know about this? He likes the PDP 11's. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Richman To: Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2000 2:33 PM Subject: LAST CALL! PDP 11/23 & Drives > To repeat my previous message: From ghldbrd at ccp.com Wed Aug 23 23:23:27 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: LAST CALL! PDP 11/23 & Drives In-Reply-To: <44d8qs03mh1lsggthepk3qjkfj3kbtc6d8@4ax.com> Message-ID: Hello Bill On 23-Aug-00, you wrote: > To repeat my previous message: > > I just got a call from a gentleman I spoke to some time back who works > at a public television station. They have two PDP 11/23 CPU cards in > chassis, plus a full set of peripheral cards (not sure of details), > and two RL02 drives, probably with several disk packs. This is > basically one operational system plus a spare CPU and chassis. They > would like to get them out of there sometime this week. If you're > interested, let me know and I'll get you in touch with the right > person. > > --- > > Located in South Dakota, 2 or 3 hours drive from me, I believe. These > are probably going to hit the dumpster unless someone rescues them. > I'm not into PDP stuff, but will do what I can to help if someone > wants these items. Act now - time is running out! > > > Bill Richman I know exactly what you are talking about -- 'cuz I used to work there. Vermillion, South Dakota, about 35 miles from Sioux City, IA. Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From dburrows at netpath.net Wed Aug 23 17:58:27 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Questionr Message-ID: <05b501c00d55$f3a5bb40$a652e780@L166> Yes I use them all the time. Dan > >Um... I have a vaxstation 3100 in need of a 10baseT transciever. I CAN just >use an ordinary aui-10bT transciever, right? > >-- >Jim Strickland >jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 23 17:11:15 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Questionr In-Reply-To: <200008232114.PAA18418@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Aug 23, 0 03:14:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 310 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000823/3c6e464e/attachment.ksh From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 23 16:59:14 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Questionr In-Reply-To: <200008232232.PAA08954@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Aug 2000, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > Absolutely. I've used such a beast on a 3100 with no problems (modulo > > not having enough memory in my machine to rebuild the NetBSD kernel > > in anything under a month). > > Only on a classic computer mailing list would people use "modulo" as a > conjunction and probably no one besides a linguist like myself would > bat an eye. :-) It was pretty clever :) Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 23 17:53:40 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Questionr In-Reply-To: <200008232232.PAA08954@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Aug 23, 0 03:32:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 251 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000823/ee1aa09a/attachment.ksh From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Aug 23 19:02:54 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: DEC AUI Questionr In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Aug 23, 0 11:53:40 pm" Message-ID: <200008240002.RAA08724@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Only on a classic computer mailing list would people use "modulo" as a > > I thought it was common hacker's jargon (as in the Jargon File). It > certainly seems to be common useage with computer hackers (and related > clueful people) in the UK. I guess that makes me an uncommon hacker :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Why, I'd horsewhip you if I had a horse! -- Groucho Marx ------------------- From vaxman at uswest.net Wed Aug 23 18:49:24 2000 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Brain Surgeon In-Reply-To: <4.1.20000822221633.0097aac0@mail.intersurf.com> Message-ID: Third times a charm? On Tue, 22 Aug 2000 terryf@intersurf.com wrote: > > You guys will get a kick outta this one. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=416103748 > > The counters really accent the post. 8-) > > Terry > > > From stan at netcom.com Wed Aug 23 19:40:04 2000 From: stan at netcom.com (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Need plastic door for old Sony floppy drive References: <200008240002.RAA08724@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <39A46EE4.351A6EC0@netcom.com> Hello, I just acquired an old HP instrument controller that uses a Sony MP-F73W-30 floppy drive. The hinged plastic rectangular door (that covers the disk slot when there is no disk present) is missing, and I would like to replace it. The beige plastic faceplate itself is present and appears to be undamaged. Does anyone have one of these doors--or perhaps the whole faceplate--lying around, or know where I could find one? (For reference, the disk eject button is a 1-3/8" wide rectangular button in the center of the faceplate, directly under the disk slot.) Also, is this drive a 720K or 1.44M, or is it some other capacity? Thanks, Stan From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Aug 23 20:00:23 2000 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Need plastic door for old Sony floppy drive In-Reply-To: <39A46EE4.351A6EC0@netcom.com> References: <200008240002.RAA08724@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.20000823210023.0101f8f8@mail.30below.com> Rumor has it that Stan Perkins may have mentioned these words: >Does anyone have one of these doors--or perhaps the whole >faceplate--lying around, or know where I could find one? (For reference, >the disk eject button is a 1-3/8" wide rectangular button in the center >of the faceplate, directly under the disk slot.) This sounds kinda like the 3.5" external floppy that was available for the Tandy 1000 EX machines - one of which I just picked up last week & is available for trades... If it's the same (I'm at work, drive at home, so I'll check later) it would be a 720K drive. HTH, "Merch" -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Aug 23 19:59:56 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: LAST CALL! PDP 11/23 & Drives Message-ID: <20000824005956.612.qmail@web615.mail.yahoo.com> > To repeat my previous message: > > ...two PDP 11/23 CPU cards in chassis, plus a full set of > peripheral cards...and two RL02 drives... > Located in South Dakota, 2 or 3 hours drive from me, I believe. These > are probably going to hit the dumpster unless someone rescues them. > I'm not into PDP stuff, but will do what I can to help if someone > wants these items. Act now - time is running out! I _do_ collect PDP stuff, but I'm in Ohio and not likely to be able to pick up any sort of equipment that far away. I wouldn't mind saving it, but for stuff I already have multiples of, I can't justify a multi-state rescue. I hope _someone_ in your area wants them. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Aug 23 20:00:10 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Possible major rescue in the works... Message-ID: <20000824010010.16132.qmail@web613.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Hello Bill > > On 23-Aug-00, you wrote: > > > To repeat my previous message: > > > > I just got a call from a gentleman I spoke to some time back who works > > at a public television station. They have two PDP 11/23 CPU cards in > > chassis, plus a full set of peripheral cards (not sure of details), > > and two RL02 drives, probably with several disk packs. This is > > basically one operational system plus a spare CPU and chassis. They > > would like to get them out of there sometime this week. If you're > > interested, let me know and I'll get you in touch with the right > > person. > > > > --- > > > > Located in South Dakota, 2 or 3 hours drive from me, I believe. These > > are probably going to hit the dumpster unless someone rescues them. > > I'm not into PDP stuff, but will do what I can to help if someone > > wants these items. Act now - time is running out! > > > > > > Bill Richman > > I know exactly what you are talking about -- 'cuz I used to work there. > > Vermillion, South Dakota, about 35 miles from Sioux City, IA. > > Regards > -- > Gary Hildebrand > Box 6184 > St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 > > 816-662-2612 > or > > ghldbrd@ccp.com > ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Aug 23 20:06:28 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Possible major rescue in the works... Message-ID: <20000824010628.28697.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com> Whoops! Premature ejection there... It's not a PDP-10 or a PDP-6 or anything that cool, but some of you may remember my mentioning a while back of some DEC equipment at a local Lucent facility. I just got the word that they turned it off last week. I'm in contact with a responsible party and he is talking with his boss about if and how it's possible to keep them from exiting wheels up, bound for a metals reclamation facility in Canton, OH. We are talking about 6+ DEC racks, two or three PDP-11/44s, two or three TC-11 controllers and between three and five TU-56 drives. Unless the media police get there first, there are also several cabinet drawers full of tapes. Fortunately, my boss at work (who is younger than much of my collection) thinks this stuff is cool and is willing to help muscle it around. He'd love to get a machine up against our glass wall at the data center, just to watch the DECtape spin! More news as the saga unfolds. Honestly, though, I'm not confident there's a way to navigate the bureaucracy at this place. I worked there for three years and unless people are personally vested in something, they point to published procedures and sit on their hands. It's a 35-year-old factory environment with lots of the original folks still there. Flexible thinking is not rewarded. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From jate at uwasa.fi Thu Aug 24 11:04:29 2000 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 help Message-ID: <20000824090429.A2875@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Hello! I'm a happy owner of Silent 700. I bought this thing yesterday for 20 FIM (approx. $3) and it looks spanking new! Really nice. Anyway it's model 745 and it has an acoustic coupler and a DB15 (male) connector. I browsed through some classiccmp mails from retrobyte but I was left a bit confused. Is the 15-pin connector RS-232 or is it current loop ? (keeping my fingers crossed for RS-232!) I've also read that you can set different options via the internal jumpers, does anybody have any idea about those ? It had a loopback connector on the DB15 connected like this: 2->11 3->13 8->12 -- Jarkko "Proud and happy owner of a RetroGraphics powered ADM-3" Teppo jate@uwasa.fi From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Aug 24 11:14:28 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) Message-ID: <20000824161428.404.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > What I/O port? The games port? There was rumoured to be a bit-banging > routine to output serial data on one of the outputs there. But I never > heard of it being in a PROM. I don't know where my friend got it, but we rigged up a bit-banging-serial- port between the joystick port of an Apple II and the User Port of a C-64 to transfer the data portion of an Infocom game from an Apple disk to a C-64 disk (it all worked once we figured out the sector mapping). > The bit-banging serial port is a pretty simple device. Single-bit in and > out buffered to RS232 and current loop levels. And a program to shift > data in and out in software. We didn't even have level shifters - TTL on both sides, but RS-232 _is_ the more typical use. > Believe me, after you've tried to use this card seriously you (a) wish > for a real serial card with a 6850 or 6551 on it and (b) want to do > unprintable things to the designers... The C-64 comes with 1200-baud bit-banging in ROM. That's why we did it that way. UARTS are much nicer (having later aquired a Super Serial Card), but not all micros had them. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Aug 24 11:30:42 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 help In-Reply-To: <20000824090429.A2875@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: > Anyway it's model 745 and it has an acoustic coupler and a DB15 (male) > connector. I browsed through some classiccmp mails from retrobyte > but I was left a bit confused. Is the 15-pin connector RS-232 or is it > current loop ? (keeping my fingers crossed for RS-232!) The one that I had was. But there might be a jumper for current loop. > I've also read that you can set different options via the internal jumpers, > does anybody have any idea about those ? > It had a loopback connector on the DB15 connected like this: > 2->11 > 3->13 > 8->12 I no longer have access to one, nor the manuals. But I MIGHT still have some RS232 cables for it. The one that I had, the loopback connected the RS232 compatible terminal with the RS232 compatible modem. There was a jumper inside that eliminated the need for the loopback plug, but I used it as a printer, and used the modem with a TRS-80. That required some special cables to bring the terminal signals and the modem signals out to DB25s. -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Aug 24 11:51:43 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: <20000824161428.404.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Aug 24, 0 09:14:28 am" Message-ID: <200008241651.JAA11030@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Believe me, after you've tried to use this card seriously you (a) wish > > for a real serial card with a 6850 or 6551 on it and (b) want to do > > unprintable things to the designers... > > The C-64 comes with 1200-baud bit-banging in ROM. That's why we did it > that way. UARTS are much nicer (having later aquired a Super Serial Card), > but not all micros had them. I always found that one of the dumbest ideas Commodore came up with (emulating the 6551 in software). It's not like it couldn't have been built into the computer; the Plus/4 has a real live 6551 driving its user port and it does fabulously well. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -- G. Marx - From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Aug 24 13:45:58 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: springfield hamfest goodies . . . and more Message-ID: <20000824184558.23763.qmail@web615.mail.yahoo.com> --- Gary Hildebrand wrote: > Hello, > > Finally found a good Commodore 128 for yours truly there. Is there in our > midst a person who might have the cp/m boot disk for one? Or point me in > the right direction? I have an original C-128 CP/M boot disk in a box somewhere. How would I go about making an image with it? I've never had a working C-128, nor have I ever run CP/M from a Commodore (Kaypros, mostly), so I don't know what the low-level format of the disk is. If it's a standard format, something like 22DISK should be able to digest it, yes? Is there already a copy of this on funet? -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Aug 24 14:44:28 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: springfield hamfest goodies . . . and more In-Reply-To: <20000824184558.23763.qmail@web615.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Aug 24, 0 11:45:58 am" Message-ID: <200008241944.MAA14628@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I have an original C-128 CP/M boot disk in a box somewhere. How would I > go about making an image with it? I've never had a working C-128, nor > have I ever run CP/M from a Commodore (Kaypros, mostly), so I don't know > what the low-level format of the disk is. If it's a standard format, > something like 22DISK should be able to digest it, yes? No, it's a farked-up GCR format, IIRC. Commodore had multiple CP/M GCR formats, the C64's v2.2 1541 type and the C128's types. 1571 drives can read all of these and many CP/M MFM formats besides, which makes it essential for a C128 if you want to use CP/M Plus on it. I personally think that C128 CP/M+ 3.0 is the best version of CP/M out there. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- "I'd love to go out with you, but I'm watching the cat litter clump." ------ From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Aug 24 15:40:46 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 2000 Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB09C@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Picked this up for $10. No monitor or keyboard. 2 Floppies. No cracks or > scratches but "yellowed" case. Very little info on net about this one. > Seems that was one of the rare computers to use an actual 80186 chip. At the time this came out, Microsoft was flying ads in magazines showing a Windows alpha (i.e. pre-1.0) on Tandy 2000s, and I was in the market for a system to replace the Sol, and the CP/M-based systems looked like their days were numbered. But one day, I was on my way to buy tickets at the local Ticketron for some concert, and the Ticketron was was in a local department store (Lazarus? No, L.S. Ayres, I think), and that store also had a computer department. While walking by, I saw a Macintosh. The shirts who were selling them were talking to each other and ignoring me, so I spent some time drawing in MacPaint, ending up painting a picture that as best as I could reproduce from memory was "There's a hole in the bottom of the sea, there's a hole in the bottom of the sea". Anyway, it came down to decision time, and I decided that the Tandy 2000 was too geeky, and too much like the CP/M systems at work. I was sure I would bring work home with me, while if I bought the Mac, I'd have a computer to use for the things *normal* people use them for. Anyway, I too, just acquired a Tandy 2000, from a co-worker who used it in his architectural firm years ago. It didn't look like it had yellowed, he must have kept it out of the sun. It has a 10MB hard drive in a thematically-same-styled case, connected by a ribbon cable. Since he didn't deliver it to me with the original software (DOS & BASIC), I was happy to pick these up cheap on E-Bay the other day. haven't fired it up yet, and in factm it may go into storage for a while before I do so. But I recall liking the specs, the graphics resolution was higher than most PC-alikes at the time (IIRC). regards, -doug quebbeman From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Aug 24 22:49:50 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:57 2005 Subject: springfield hamfest goodies . . . and more In-Reply-To: <20000824184558.23763.qmail@web615.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Ethan On 24-Aug-00, you wrote: > > --- Gary Hildebrand wrote: >> Hello, >> >> Finally found a good Commodore 128 for yours truly there. Is there in our >> midst a person who might have the cp/m boot disk for one? Or point me in >> the right direction? > > I have an original C-128 CP/M boot disk in a box somewhere. How would I > go about making an image with it? I've never had a working C-128, nor > have I ever run CP/M from a Commodore (Kaypros, mostly), so I don't know > what the low-level format of the disk is. If it's a standard format, > something like 22DISK should be able to digest it, yes? > > Is there already a copy of this on funet? > > -ethan The book saays that Commodore cp/m 3.0 supports several formats: Commodore SS GCR (the standard C=64 format) C-128 cp/m plus format (single sided) Commodore DS GCR format MFM disk formats: Epson QX10, IBM-8 SS, IBM-8 DS, KayPor II,KayPro IV, and Osborne DD I am not sure of which format is used for the system disk. I presume it is commodre SS GCR, so it is compatible with any drive. Nothing further is mentioned in my Programmers Reference Guide. Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Aug 24 17:26:57 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: springfield hamfest goodies . . . and more In-Reply-To: from Gary Hildebrand at "Aug 24, 0 09:49:50 pm" Message-ID: <200008242226.PAA12648@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > The book saays that Commodore cp/m 3.0 supports several formats: > > Commodore SS GCR (the standard C=64 format) > > C-128 cp/m plus format (single sided) > > Commodore DS GCR format > > MFM disk formats: > Epson QX10, IBM-8 SS, IBM-8 DS, KayPor II,KayPro IV, and Osborne DD > > I am not sure of which format is used for the system disk. I presume it is > commodre SS GCR, so it is compatible with any drive. Nothing further is > mentioned in my Programmers Reference Guide. No, actually, I think it's the DS GCR format because you need a 1571 to boot C128 CP/M. I don't think it can be booted from a 1541, which can only read the SS format. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- There are few problems that the liberal usage of high explosives can't cure. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Aug 24 17:46:29 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) Message-ID: <003801c00e1d$d46dcce0$14109a8d@ajp166> bit banging was most common to the 6502 world, most of the other systems used real UART/USARTs. I think it was the idea of software was cheaper than hardware. Most of the bit bashers seems to live on the low end of the performance spectrum for their time. Allison -----Original Message----- From: Cameron Kaiser To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, August 24, 2000 1:04 PM Subject: Re: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) >> > Believe me, after you've tried to use this card seriously you (a) wish >> > for a real serial card with a 6850 or 6551 on it and (b) want to do >> > unprintable things to the designers... >> >> The C-64 comes with 1200-baud bit-banging in ROM. That's why we did it >> that way. UARTS are much nicer (having later aquired a Super Serial Card), >> but not all micros had them. > >I always found that one of the dumbest ideas Commodore came up with >(emulating the 6551 in software). It's not like it couldn't have been >built into the computer; the Plus/4 has a real live 6551 driving its >user port and it does fabulously well. > >-- >----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu >-- Those are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -- G. Marx - From sipke at wxs.nl Thu Aug 24 18:25:03 2000 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: My Interpro 2430 Works now ! Message-ID: <02a501c00e22$898d7540$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Since about a month I am the proud owner of an Interpro 2430 with a Kryptonite C400 ClipperCPU . It's a fully working system with a 21" Colordisplay, 32Mb RAM, 400MB SCSI HD, Ethernet, Floppy and a double framebuffer. Tonight I got the beast up and running and circumvented the root password. Yoooopiiii But I have no manuals, no CD, or other valuable information. I am currently rummaging through the filesystem, but it seems to have been used as a plain user machine with some CAD-software. No development stuff! The Clipper C400 CPU is offspring from the (in)famous C100 Fairchild-Clipper. Eventually the C400 (kryptonite) was the last one made. Intergraph Corporation (Ingr.) aquired the CPU from Fairchild and after a few years that was the end of the story. AFAIK Ingr. moved to the Windows NT platform and is no longer supporting the Clipper, the hardware or CLIX (the Clipper port of UNIX). The Clipper has a nice architecture though. I have a book (and a chipset) of the C100. The book=> Clipper 32-bit Microprocessor - User Manual (from Fairchild: ISBN 0-13-138058-3 025) The Clipper is actually a chip set. One Chip contains the CPU & FPU and 2 CAMMU chips which integrate a cache and a MMU. One of the CAMMU chips serves the Instruction Queue, the other CAMMU is for data. The CPU-FPU chip has 16 32-bit User registers, 16 32-Bit Supervisor registers 8 64-Bit Floatingpoint registers, a Program and System statusword and a Programcounter The CAMMU's each contain a 4k byte 2-way associ. data or instr. cache, A quadword (16-byte) linebuffer, that acts as a fast cache-within-the-cache, and a Translation Lookaside Buffer that caches 128 freq. used virtual adress translations. Not a lot by today's standards but cleverly executed. The Clipper is rather special in that it has both RISC and CISC features. The core is RISC but complex instructions are executed in an internal macrocode. (kinda microcode of RISC primitives) Software development on the Interpro systems is cumbersome and a lot of the CLIX-features are outdated. It's also slow by today's norm You can put some version of gcc on this system but you would need the CLIX-libraries in order to execute your programs on the native Clipper. These lib's are on the CD that accompanied the system. ..... But I don't have that CD Alas, Linux or NetBSD would be nice. But Ingr is not forthcoming with the systemdetails. So any one out there that could leverage some goodwill on the side of Ingr. to part with Interpro, Clipper and CLIX secrets ........ ...... might set of the first porting attempts! Meanwhile a lot of these systems get scrapped and the Clipper heritage slowly goes into the big void of remote history. It's rather ironical that the system does not yet deserve the label of vintage computer because it is not even 10 years old. The BIOS-productiondate on my system reads 1994! So if you feel as sad about this wastefull drama as I do .... Let's unite and let us be heard of... I will address these matters on this group in the near future and may propose a mild flame towards Ingr. to persuade and petition them to put more of their Clipper material in the public domain. But first I need to learn more about these matters I personally am not capable of porting anything since I am still busy getting used to CLIX, UNIX, LINUX or whatever. Reactions please ........... Sipke de Wal From r.stek at snet.net Thu Aug 24 18:43:25 2000 From: r.stek at snet.net (Robert Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Any info on a Pro-Log Corp. M822 8080 Analyzer? Message-ID: I picked up one of these in apparently decent condition - needs a few new switches whose handles got broken off. At the end of a cable is a spring loaded clip which attaches to an in-circuit 8080 (as in my beloved Sol ). It appears that you can read the status, data, etc. and even single-step through programs. But without a manual I am not sure. Jim Willing has one on his website, but email to him has gone unanswered for the past few days. Anyone out there have a manual (or really good recall)? Bob Stek Saver of Lost Sols From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 24 18:10:46 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Any info on a Pro-Log Corp. M822 8080 Analyzer? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 24 Aug 2000, Robert Stek wrote: > I picked up one of these in apparently decent condition - needs a few new > switches whose handles got broken off. At the end of a cable is a spring > loaded clip which attaches to an in-circuit 8080 (as in my beloved Sol ). > It appears that you can read the status, data, etc. and even single-step > through programs. But without a manual I am not sure. Jim Willing has one > on his website, but email to him has gone unanswered for the past few days. > Anyone out there have a manual (or really good recall)? I spoke to Mr. Willing thru e-mail today so he's probably just extremely busy. I've got one of these as well. I know where it is too. I'll see if I have the manual for it and get back to you. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 24 18:16:21 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Need plastic door for old Sony floppy drive In-Reply-To: <39A46EE4.351A6EC0@netcom.com> from "Stan Perkins" at Aug 23, 0 05:40:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1242 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000825/35e82e61/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 24 18:45:06 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: <20000824161428.404.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Aug 24, 0 09:14:28 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 537 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000825/003d6268/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 24 18:53:16 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: springfield hamfest goodies . . . and more In-Reply-To: <200008242226.PAA12648@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Aug 24, 0 03:26:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 922 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000825/07849c8a/attachment.ksh From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Aug 24 20:58:12 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Aug 25, 0 00:45:06 am" Message-ID: <200008250158.SAA10144@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > The C-64 comes with 1200-baud bit-banging in ROM. That's why we did it > > that way. UARTS are much nicer (having later aquired a Super Serial Card), > > but not all micros had them. > > Yes, but the C64/C128 have an expansion bus. It's not hard to hook up a > 6551. In fact it would take me less time to do that (and I have a > suitable chip in the junk box) than it would take me to debug the > bitbanging routines... Not only not hard, but already done. The CMD SwiftLinks and Turbo232s are nothing more than 6551 ACIAs mapped to appear at either $DE00 or $DF00 in the memory map (ditto for Datapumps, etc.) > The P500 has a real serial port (6551, RS232 level shifters, DB25 > connector), but few other CBM machines do :-( The Plus/4 has a 6551, but it uses the regular weird user port. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Proponents of other opinions will be merrily beaten to a bloody pulp. ------ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Aug 24 20:58:54 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: springfield hamfest goodies . . . and more In-Reply-To: from Tony Duell at "Aug 25, 0 00:53:16 am" Message-ID: <200008250158.SAA14506@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > I am not sure of which format is used for the system disk. I presume it is > > > commodre SS GCR, so it is compatible with any drive. Nothing further is > > > mentioned in my Programmers Reference Guide. > > > > No, actually, I think it's the DS GCR format because you need a 1571 to > > boot C128 CP/M. I don't think it can be booted from a 1541, which can only > > read the SS format. > > Are you sure? I picked up a second-hand C128 recently, and it came with > all the manuals (but alas no CP/M disks). The manuals imply that CP/M can > be booted from any drive unit (1541, 1570, 1571), so I assume that the > disk was in 1541 SS format. Of course to read 'alien' MFM disks you need > either a 1570 (which seems to be relatively common over here -- I have 2 > 1570s and no 1571) or a 1571. > > I'd hoped I could run CP/M on it with the drives I have (all of which are > single-sided). Perhaps I will have to look for a 1571... I'm pretty sure, but to be fair, not 100 percent sure. I've always used a 1571 with mine. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I believe in getting into hot water; it keeps you clean. -- G.K. Chesterton From nabil at SpiritOne.com Thu Aug 24 21:27:45 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: looking for teletype KSR-43 ribbons In-Reply-To: <200008250158.SAA10144@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: Does anyone have a stash of these? -- Aaron Nabil From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Aug 24 23:37:56 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Need plastic door for old Sony floppy drive In-Reply-To: <39A46EE4.351A6EC0@netcom.com> References: <200008240002.RAA08724@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000824233756.34f7ddbc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Stan, That sounds like the drive that used in the 9122 C disk drive. The big button in the center is a dead give away. I've never had one open so I don't know what the model of the bare drive is but it's quad density or something and it holds twice as much data as the drives used in the 9122 D or S drives. I think I'm down to my last 9122C but I'll look and see. I'm working about 14 hours a day right now so you'll probably have to remind me. BTW what model instrument controller is that? Joe At 05:40 PM 8/23/00 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, > >I just acquired an old HP instrument controller that uses a Sony >MP-F73W-30 floppy drive. The hinged plastic rectangular door (that >covers the disk slot when there is no disk present) is missing, and I >would like to replace it. The beige plastic faceplate itself is present >and appears to be undamaged. > >Does anyone have one of these doors--or perhaps the whole >faceplate--lying around, or know where I could find one? (For reference, >the disk eject button is a 1-3/8" wide rectangular button in the center >of the faceplate, directly under the disk slot.) > >Also, is this drive a 720K or 1.44M, or is it some other capacity? > >Thanks, >Stan > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Aug 24 23:49:03 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Old printer ribbons In-Reply-To: <002901c00c8e$02784660$3a483cd1@winbook> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000824234903.34efcc14@mailhost.intellistar.net> Dick, I used to have printer that I THINK was a Citizen GSX-something. It sounds like it used the same ribbons. It came with a black ribbons but you could buy some kind of upgrade that changed it to a color printer and then you had to install a four color ribbon. You might check and see if the Citizen used the same ribbon as your Toshiba. Joe At 05:09 PM 8/22/00 -0600, you wrote: >I once bought a Toshiba P351C (which I still have, but still don't use) that >uses about 1" high ribbons, either four-color or black. Though I got this >printer new, once I had used up the two ribbons I had, I was forced to stop >using it by the lack of available ribbons. > >Toshiba never even sent me the "free" ribbon to which a coupon included with >the printer claimed to entitle me and which Toshiba's representative >promised to send me. Does anybody have a clue as to where one can get >ribbons for this beastie? I'm not even sure it works any longer, but I >would like to use it with an old CP/M system. > >Dick > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Aug 24 23:30:22 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: looking for teletype KSR-43 ribbons In-Reply-To: References: <200008250158.SAA10144@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000824233022.477f6542@mailhost.intellistar.net> No, but if you describe them and tell us what else that they fit then we might be able to find some. Joe At 07:27 PM 8/24/00 -0700, you wrote: > >Does anyone have a stash of these? > >-- >Aaron Nabil > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Aug 24 23:30:46 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) Message-ID: <20000825043046.13451.qmail@web612.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > The P500 has a real serial port (6551, RS232 level shifters, DB25 > connector), but few other CBM machines do :-( I've got a PET internal serial port... it sits in a ROM socket with some clip leads to pick up missing signals (Phi/2 and R/W, I expect) Got it in a box and have never had the opportunity to use it (no, it's not for sale/trade) -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From vcf at siconic.com Fri Aug 25 01:37:29 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: VCF Message Board! Message-ID: Who was it that started the "Want list for VCF" thread? I forget. At any rate, thanks for sparking the idea to finally create a VCF message board. The VCF Message Board is now up at: http://www.vintage.org/2000/messages.html Post your buy/sell/trade or want lists for VCF 4.0 there. You can also use it to make shared travel arrangements, see who else is coming and what they're bringing, etc. Use it and abuse it. It's not very rich, but it's functional. If you find any bugs, or have any suggestions for improving it, please e-mail me. I will continue to develop the message board over time to make it easier to navigate messages, as well as provide multiple discussion areas. Before you suggest using please know that I prefer to host all my services myself, as well as program them, mostly for the experience of programming this stuff (it's done with very straight-forward Perl scripts on the back end). Enjoy! Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From vcf at siconic.com Fri Aug 25 02:40:07 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Current VCF 4.0 Speaker Line-up Message-ID: The speakers currently lined up for VCF 4.0 are: Bill Godbout (S-100 Legend) Jim Warren (Found of the West Coast Computer Faire) Larry Tesler (Xerox PARC and Apple Computer Demigod) Paul Freiberger & Michael Swaine (authors of _Fire in the Valley_) Christine Finn (Computer Archaeologist) Curt Vendel (Atari Historical Society Founder) Jim Willing (Official VCF Celebrity!) Dwight Elvey (Reviver of the Nicolet-1080) Additional speakers will be announced in the coming weeks before the event! Brief bios of each speaker can be found at: http://www.vintage.org/2000/speakers.html Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Aug 25 08:29:45 2000 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: looking for teletype KSR-43 ribbons In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000824233022.477f6542@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <200008250158.SAA10144@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000825082852.02f0e100@pc> At 11:30 PM 8/24/00 -0500, Joe wrote: >No, but if you describe them and tell us what else that they fit then we >might be able to find some. I bet if you took one to an office supply store, they'd have a suitable replacement. Before KSRs there were these things called typewriters... - John From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Aug 25 12:15:35 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: looking for teletype KSR-43 ribbons In-Reply-To: from Aaron Nabil at "Aug 24, 2000 07:27:45 pm" Message-ID: <200008251715.MAA07872@caesar.cs.umn.edu> http://www.partsalliance.com/ne/ribbons.htm A package of 6 Teletype 43/45 ribbons is $16.62, or $20.28 including tax. Of course, this site is in Austrailia... http://www.ribbon-exchange.com/ribbons/newrib.htm This site has them for $7.50 each. This ribbon is still very common. -Lawrence LeMay > > Does anyone have a stash of these? > > -- > Aaron Nabil > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 25 12:15:43 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Original Apple II (not + or e or other) In-Reply-To: <200008250158.SAA10144@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Aug 24, 0 06:58:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 773 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000825/97a7a268/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 25 12:20:21 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: looking for teletype KSR-43 ribbons In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000824233022.477f6542@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Aug 24, 0 11:30:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1043 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000825/fa527598/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Aug 25 13:43:34 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: looking for teletype KSR-43 ribbons In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000825082852.02f0e100@pc> References: <3.0.1.16.20000824233022.477f6542@mailhost.intellistar.net> <200008250158.SAA10144@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: I think I have a couple in the last batch of ribbons I bought, maybe even a lead on the KSR-43, which I think is a desktop unit the size of a selectric. Someday soon I plan to lay all the old ribbons out on a table, take pictures and post them on eBay. The Teletype KSR-43 if its still around is in a scrap yard in SoCal. From celt at chisp.net Fri Aug 25 14:38:11 2000 From: celt at chisp.net (Michael Maginnis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Mac Portable SadMac Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000825131927.00a94ba0@edison.chisp.net> I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction with this one... I recently picked up this beast at a local yard sale. The owner said it had been sitting in his attic for the past seven or eight years; when I powered it on, all I could get was the blinking question mark in a disk graphic, indicating that the machine couldn't find an operating system (I believe). After a few hours of net-research, I learned that the internal battery needed to be charged up before the hard drive (Conner 40M drive) would spin up. So, after charging for several hours, I tried again, only to be greeted almost immediately with the 'Sad Mac' icon and the following code below it: 0010 1B10 0000 1FFA A visit to Apple's Tech Info Library turned up an article on the codes (number 7748 for those interested), but was clearly meant as a general overview rather than to address specific failures. Once the internal battery charged, I could hear the whine of the Connor spinning up, but that's as far as it gets. /mpm From donm at cts.com Fri Aug 25 16:08:57 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: looking for teletype KSR-43 ribbons In-Reply-To: <200008251715.MAA07872@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > http://www.partsalliance.com/ne/ribbons.htm > > A package of 6 Teletype 43/45 ribbons is $16.62, or $20.28 including tax. > Of course, this site is in Austrailia... Wow! A 22% tax! Shipping not included I presume. > http://www.ribbon-exchange.com/ribbons/newrib.htm > > This site has them for $7.50 each. > > This ribbon is still very common. > > -Lawrence LeMay > > > > > Does anyone have a stash of these? > > > > -- > > Aaron Nabil > > > > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Aug 25 16:18:28 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: References: <200008220114.SAA03166@stockholm.ptloma.edu> from "Cameron Kaiser" at Aug 21, 0 06:14:08 pm Message-ID: <39A6FEC4.29704.CFFBD5@localhost> > > Particularly the PC-6 -- I'm very curious about that one. I wasn't too > > impressed with the PC-2, but I love my PC-4. > The PC6 was a disapointment :-(. It's a Casio clone, of course (I forget > which model). It's got the same BASIC (essentially) as the PC4, with the > same 10 'program areas' and common variables for all programs. It does > have more memory (8K IIRC). PB 1000 ? > The 'assembler' is a cheat!. It's not an assembler for the PC6's CPU, > it's an assembler for a mythical 16 bit CPU. There's also a simulator for > said CPU in the machine so you can run your 'assembly language' programs. > But it's pretty limited in what it can do, and you certainly can't access > hardware features of the PC6. Well, as you prefer - I thought of the assembler as quite nice tool to write programs with faster execution than in basic, and you could access (most?) hardware - I did some nice graphic games with it, impossible in basic. Also, when is an assembler real ? Maybe with an exeptinon of early PDP8s, where the coding did realy trigger the hardware parts, Assm is almost always just an abstraction layer one or two layers above the real gates. In some architectures real implementations are an exeption... Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 25 17:43:34 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Intel PT reader Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000825174334.2437a9a2@mailhost.intellistar.net> I recently picked up a nice Intel paper tape reader (model Intellec 8-90?) to go with my Intellec MDS system. The only problem is that the light pipe in it is broken. However both parts are still there. Does anyone have any suggestions about how to fix the pipe or where I can get another one? Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Aug 25 18:07:22 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: looking for teletype KSR-43 ribbons In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.20000824233022.477f6542@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000825180722.23d76ad4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Tony, Thanks for the description, I'll keep my eyes open for any ribbons like that. I do remember seeing a printer that worked like that at one time. I'll be dogged if I can remember what kind it was but I'm almost certain that it wasn't a Teletype. Joe At 06:20 PM 8/25/00 +0100, you wrote: >> >> No, but if you describe them and tell us what else that they fit then we >> might be able to find some. > >AFAIK they fit _nothing_ else :-( > >The ribbon cartridge is a plastic box about 3" * 2.5". It fits on top of >the right sideframe in the Model 43, and it's held down by a magnet on >the chasiss and a metal plate on the bottom of the cartridge. > >There's a long loop of ribon that runs from the cartridge round rollers >on the Model 43. There are 2 on the left sidefram and 2 on the carriage, >and IIRC they're fitted with one-way brakes, so that they turn one way >and lock if you try to turn them the other way. As the carriage moves >left-right, the ribbon doesn't move (rollers on the carriage free-wheel, >ones on the fram lock), as the carriage moves right-left, the ribbon is >pulled along with the carriage (rollers on the carriage lock, those on >the frame free-wheel). > >That is the _only_ ribbon feed mechanism, there's no drive to the >cartridge or anything. > >I've never seen any other printer that works like this. > >-tony > > From elvey at hal.com Fri Aug 25 18:57:19 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Intel PT reader In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000825174334.2437a9a2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <200008252357.QAA29468@civic.hal.com> Joe wrote: > I recently picked up a nice Intel paper tape reader (model Intellec > 8-90?) to go with my Intellec MDS system. The only problem is that the > light pipe in it is broken. However both parts are still there. Does > anyone have any suggestions about how to fix the pipe or where I can get > another one? > > Joe Hi Joe I have one of these myself but I don't know if it is a glass or plastic piece ( I assume you are talking about the strip that goes across the top of the diode array ). I would think that some clear epoxy would work. Remove any excess and also make sure there were no bubbles. Have a clamping system setup before you use the epoxy to make sure you can control things. It should use only a tiny amount. Dwight From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Fri Aug 25 20:10:45 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Intel PT reader Message-ID: <006301c00efa$7e285840$fd0c9a8d@ajp166> >Joe wrote: >> I recently picked up a nice Intel paper tape reader (model Intellec >> 8-90?) to go with my Intellec MDS system. The only problem is that the >> light pipe in it is broken. However both parts are still there. Does >> anyone have any suggestions about how to fix the pipe or where I can get >> another one? I'd check the plastic to see if it's suitable for solvent weld. Epoxies tend to build an optical discontinuitys as they are very different form the actual plastic. Allison From richard at idcomm.com Fri Aug 25 21:37:52 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Intel PT reader References: <006301c00efa$7e285840$fd0c9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <000901c00f06$a2c65060$0500c0a8@winbook> Before you go to too much trouble, consider making a mold of the glued-together part using SILASTIC modling polymer. It will make a nice mold for you to use and if you use a cheap craft-shop plastic like "Clear-Cast" you'll have a decent enough part as far as light transimssion is concerned. If you paint the outside with an opaque white or silver enamel, you'll prevent light from escaping or infiltrating the pipe. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: ajp166 To: Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 7:10 PM Subject: Re: Intel PT reader > >Joe wrote: > >> I recently picked up a nice Intel paper tape reader (model Intellec > >> 8-90?) to go with my Intellec MDS system. The only problem is that the > >> light pipe in it is broken. However both parts are still there. Does > >> anyone have any suggestions about how to fix the pipe or where I can > get > >> another one? > > > I'd check the plastic to see if it's suitable for solvent weld. Epoxies > tend to build > an optical discontinuitys as they are very different form the actual > plastic. > > Allison > > From jlewczyk at his.com Fri Aug 25 23:15:05 2000 From: jlewczyk at his.com (John Lewczyk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay In-Reply-To: <000901c00f06$a2c65060$0500c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <000701c00f14$364e7d50$013da8c0@Corellian> For what its worth... Because there are so many vintage machines, I thought I'd pass along the url of the auction and the list of machines. Its a rather impressive collection for sale. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=419928107 As listed on the auction page, here is what is being sold as a lot... MOS/Commodore KIM-1, docs HP-85 HP-86 HP-87 (earliest model ) Commodore PET 2001-8K, Chicklet keyboard, (a few of the keys dont work) Apple 3 and external floppy Exidy Sorcerer S-100 expansion interface. TRS-80 Model 1,docs HP-110 HP-150 IMSAI VDP-80, docs (case is cracked and CRT yoke is disconnected) Canon Cat and printer Apple Lisa 2 IMSAI 8048 in a case, probably the rarest thing here. Intel SDK-86, docs Heathkit H-89, docs TRS-80 Model 4P, HD TRS-80 Model 6000, HD, early XENIX Microprofessor MPF-1 Z80 Trainer in box, docs Heathkit ET-3400 6800 Microprocessor Trainer, docs Heathkit ETA-3400, unbuilt, docs (still in kit form) Synertec SYM-1, boxed, docs Heathkit H-8, H-17, H-19, and a H-9 (ouch, I forgot to 'red' that one out), docs Heathkit Z-100, Gemini option, docs Kaypro 2, docs HP-5036a, docs IMSAI 8080, docs, two paddles missing, untraced short on mb OSI Superboard 2 Basic Four MINICOMPUTER, floppys, terminal, diskpaks, and docs, untested Osborne Occ-1 TRS-80 Model II,docs Commodore CBM 8032 Apple Newton 130 (I'll have to beam all my current stuff out of there) Homebrew S-100, Thinker Toys Wunderbus, Dual 8"ers, (undiagnosed) GE Terminet300, just needs that old style power cable OSI Challenger C4P, missing sides and some guts Apple Mac 128 Apple Mac Porble Rockwell AIM-65, cased Epson HX-20, docs Tandy 200 Atari 800 TRS-80 Model 4 NEC PC 6001 RCA VP 3301 IBM PC IBM PC Portable IBM PC/XT IBM PC/Jr IBM PC/AT Altos 8000, Televidio TS-806 SMS Model 40, RT-11, some docs SMS Model 50, 2 Expansion Chassi, dosen't boot sometimes DEC mPDP 11/53, console boot, bad hd maybe Sharp PC-1500 Northstar Advantage, tons of software Northstar Horizon, missing wood cover and logo plate Aim-65 in case Timex ZX-81 Timex 1000 - John - jlewczyk@his.com From elvey at hal.com Fri Aug 25 23:19:53 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Intel PT reader In-Reply-To: <006301c00efa$7e285840$fd0c9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <200008260419.VAA29756@civic.hal.com> "ajp166" wrote: > >Joe wrote: > >> I recently picked up a nice Intel paper tape reader (model Intellec > >> 8-90?) to go with my Intellec MDS system. The only problem is that the > >> light pipe in it is broken. However both parts are still there. Does > >> anyone have any suggestions about how to fix the pipe or where I can > get > >> another one? > > > I'd check the plastic to see if it's suitable for solvent weld. Epoxies > tend to build > an optical discontinuitys as they are very different form the actual > plastic. > > Allison Hi I agree that there will be a change in index but my exerience with solvent welding is that unless done right, you get bubbles. This is worse at blocking light. Richards idea is a good one. Dwight From richard at idcomm.com Sat Aug 26 00:47:22 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Intel PT reader References: <200008260419.VAA29756@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <001b01c00f21$1bfee180$0500c0a8@winbook> Though they make special materials for making molds and castings in them, I rather suspect that this is a simple enough one that you can easily save some hassle and use components you get at the local lumber yard and/or crafts store rather than having to buy then from a specialty house. You're an engineer, and you can probably figure out how to make a mold. Silastic copies every detail. You won't believe how precisely it does it. It even copies paint finish. These silastic molds require two things. (1) a way to give off acetic acid, which is the inhibitor that keeps them from curing in the container (usually a caulk tube) and (2) a way to get the silastic out of the mold with the model in it so you can cut the mold in half for later extraction of the new plastic part. I personally have used a vertical milling machine (Bridgeport) to make the molds for fairly simple models with only a couple of bends. if your mold is in two pieces and fairly thin, you'll have no trouble getting it out of a two-part mold. If you cut the approximate but generously cleared shape appropriately into a 2x4 which you can later cut in half, that's worked for me. The trick is that the two-part mold have an open top so (a) you can put the model inside before putting the halves of the mold together, and then, having fastened the halves together, you can introduce the silastic. If you use the clear stuff (costs about $2 for a tube) you can see the bubbles and manipulate your material so no bubbles turn up on the surface of your model. There are lots of steps, but when you're done, you have a silastic mold that's reusable, gives an excellent finish, and lets you make excellent copies of an original that may be totally useless for anything except a model. If you need encouragement, email me. If you want details, remember that each job is different. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Dwight Elvey To: Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 10:19 PM Subject: Re[2]: Intel PT reader > "ajp166" wrote: > > >Joe wrote: > > >> I recently picked up a nice Intel paper tape reader (model Intellec > > >> 8-90?) to go with my Intellec MDS system. The only problem is that the > > >> light pipe in it is broken. However both parts are still there. Does > > >> anyone have any suggestions about how to fix the pipe or where I can > > get > > >> another one? > > > > > > I'd check the plastic to see if it's suitable for solvent weld. Epoxies > > tend to build > > an optical discontinuitys as they are very different form the actual > > plastic. > > > > Allison > > Hi > I agree that there will be a change in index but my exerience > with solvent welding is that unless done right, you get bubbles. > This is worse at blocking light. > Richards idea is a good one. > Dwight > > From vcf at siconic.com Sat Aug 26 00:48:12 2000 From: vcf at siconic.com (Vintage Computer Festival) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS-100 boot disk/docs? Message-ID: Does anyone have the boot disk and/or docs for the Intel iPDS-100? It's a portable (like the Osborn) circa 1982, 8085-based (it actually has three 8085's inside). Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 26 00:49:59 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay In-Reply-To: <000701c00f14$364e7d50$013da8c0@Corellian> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Aug 2000, John Lewczyk wrote: > For what its worth... > > Because there are so many vintage machines, I thought I'd pass along the url of > the auction and the list of machines. Its a rather impressive collection for > sale. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=419928107 Say, this is Mike Dogas' collection. It's a shame he has to let everything go like this. It *is* an impressive collection. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Aug 26 09:09:49 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Intel PT reader In-Reply-To: <200008252357.QAA29468@civic.hal.com> References: <3.0.1.16.20000825174334.2437a9a2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000826090949.359f9a70@mailhost.intellistar.net> Dwight, That was sort of what I was thinking but I expect that it needs to be some kind of glue or epoxy that has the same index of refraction as the original material. I thought perhaps someone on the list had already tried to repair one. Joe At 04:57 PM 8/25/00 -0700, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> I recently picked up a nice Intel paper tape reader (model Intellec >> 8-90?) to go with my Intellec MDS system. The only problem is that the >> light pipe in it is broken. However both parts are still there. Does >> anyone have any suggestions about how to fix the pipe or where I can get >> another one? >> >> Joe > >Hi Joe > I have one of these myself but I don't know if it is a >glass or plastic piece ( I assume you are talking about >the strip that goes across the top of the diode array ). > I would think that some clear epoxy would work. Remove >any excess and also make sure there were no bubbles. >Have a clamping system setup before you use the epoxy >to make sure you can control things. It should use >only a tiny amount. >Dwight > > From dogas at leading.net Sat Aug 26 08:43:38 2000 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay Message-ID: <003601c00f63$a428f360$1504c7d8@doglap> > >Say, this is Mike Dogas' collection. It's a shame he has to let >everything go like this. It *is* an impressive collection. > Yep, and like everyone else here probably: I worked hard to find them all. And then I worked hard to get some free time to play with it all, and I did, and have been so there isn't much actually lost beyond the kinesthetics and glow. But I still have (many) more computers that will get maybe now more of my attention and I sure can use the money. Thanks for the sympathy, but dont let your posessions become your master. Thanks - Mike: dogas@leading.net From dogas at leading.net Sat Aug 26 10:32:49 2000 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS-100 boot disk/docs? Message-ID: <007e01c00f72$e4e6e740$1504c7d8@doglap> I have an Intel PPDS-100. Sounds the same. No docs or software but it will boot from bubble memory to Isis ver 1.0. There is also a pod slot on the side and holder accessable from the top. I have the EMV-51A poddy thing. I'd like some software for it too Cheers - Mike -----Original Message----- From: Vintage Computer Festival To: Classic Computers Mailing List Date: Saturday, August 26, 2000 2:59 AM Subject: Intel iPDS-100 boot disk/docs? > >Does anyone have the boot disk and/or docs for the Intel iPDS-100? It's a >portable (like the Osborn) circa 1982, 8085-based (it actually has three >8085's inside). > >Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 26 10:43:53 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay In-Reply-To: <003601c00f63$a428f360$1504c7d8@doglap> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Aug 2000, Mike wrote: > Thanks for the sympathy, but dont let your posessions become your master. A good point. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Sat Aug 26 10:47:16 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS-100 boot disk/docs? In-Reply-To: <007e01c00f72$e4e6e740$1504c7d8@doglap> Message-ID: On Sat, 26 Aug 2000, Mike wrote: > I have an Intel PPDS-100. Sounds the same. No docs or software but it will > boot from bubble memory to Isis ver 1.0. There is also a pod slot on the Woah, sweet! > side and holder accessable from the top. I have the EMV-51A poddy thing. > I'd like some software for it too I have the F27/128 pod. It has two ZIF sockets and can burn anything from a 2716 to a 27128 and 2815 and 2816. Mine also seems to have some voltage problem or something. The display sort of fades and wavers regularly. Oh well, no time right now to give it any more attention than the others. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Aug 25 17:25:49 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <39A6FEC4.29704.CFFBD5@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Aug 25, 0 11:18:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2750 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000825/e7b4e41a/attachment.ksh From ernestls at home.com Sat Aug 26 13:00:55 2000 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Corona Data Systems keyboard cable question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c00f87$95606ce0$59a40b18@c721564-a.sttln1.wa.home.com> I recently picked up a CDS portable system that's in great shape but the keyboard cable is missing. So I'll build a new one but I was wondering if anyone knows the cable configuration. It looks like it requires a 6 pin plug that is the same size as the RJ11 phone plug, and I'm assuming that the wires go straight through, with no crossovers. Can anyone confirm this? The system has an internal HD, and I'm curious to see if it still boots up, and if it contains the original OS and any other interesting old programs. Thanks. Ernest From donm at cts.com Sat Aug 26 15:32:04 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS-100 boot disk/docs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Does anyone have the boot disk and/or docs for the Intel iPDS-100? It's a > portable (like the Osborn) circa 1982, 8085-based (it actually has three > 8085's inside). Sorry Sellam, I cannot help on the disk, but I'd welcome a copy if you get one. - don > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > From cube1 at home.com Sat Aug 26 15:50:42 2000 From: cube1 at home.com (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: My Interpro 2430 Works now ! In-Reply-To: <02a501c00e22$898d7540$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000826154127.05d60100@cirithi> Yes, most Intergraph machines were used for computer assisted drafting (CAD). The Unix (that they called CLIX) was a System V variant. However, last I knew Intergraph still supported the hardware, though as you point out, they are now entirely NT focused. (The history of Bentley Microsystems and MicroStation is an interesting facet of Intergraph's development. Anybody remember MicroIGDS? 8-) ). Unfortunately, the media you need are copyrighted, so I cannot provide you with any. But you might contact the Intergraph office nearest to you and see if they could provide you with a copy of the core software -- part of the CD wasn't encrypted by a license key. You may well get more cooperation at the local level than trying to approach Intergraph at the corporate level - flames are apt to be ignored. Jay Jaeger At 01:25 AM 8/25/00 +0200, Sipke de Wal wrote: >Since about a month I am the proud owner of an Interpro 2430 with a >Kryptonite C400 ClipperCPU . It's a fully working system with a >21" Colordisplay, 32Mb RAM, 400MB SCSI HD, Ethernet, Floppy >and a double framebuffer. Tonight I got the beast up and running and >circumvented the root password. Yoooopiiii > >But I have no manuals, no CD, or other valuable information. >I am currently rummaging through the filesystem, but it seems >to have been used as a plain user machine with some CAD-software. >No development stuff! > >The Clipper C400 CPU is offspring from the (in)famous C100 >Fairchild-Clipper. Eventually the C400 (kryptonite) was the last one made. >Intergraph Corporation (Ingr.) aquired the CPU from Fairchild and after >a few years that was the end of the story. AFAIK Ingr. moved to the >Windows NT platform and is no longer supporting the Clipper, >the hardware or CLIX (the Clipper port of UNIX). > >The Clipper has a nice architecture though. I have a book (and a chipset) >of the C100. The book=> Clipper 32-bit Microprocessor - User Manual >(from Fairchild: ISBN 0-13-138058-3 025) > >The Clipper is actually a chip set. One Chip contains the CPU & FPU and > 2 CAMMU chips which integrate a cache and a MMU. One of the CAMMU >chips serves the Instruction Queue, the other CAMMU is for data. >The CPU-FPU chip has 16 32-bit User registers, 16 32-Bit Supervisor >registers 8 64-Bit Floatingpoint registers, a Program and System statusword >and a Programcounter >The CAMMU's each contain a 4k byte 2-way associ. data or instr. cache, A >quadword (16-byte) linebuffer, that acts as a fast cache-within-the-cache, >and a Translation Lookaside Buffer that caches 128 freq. used virtual adress >translations. Not a lot by today's standards but cleverly executed. > >The Clipper is rather special in that it has both RISC and CISC features. >The core is RISC but complex instructions are executed in an internal >macrocode. (kinda microcode of RISC primitives) > >Software development on the Interpro systems is cumbersome and a >lot of the CLIX-features are outdated. It's also slow by today's norm >You can put some version of gcc on this system but you would need the >CLIX-libraries in order to execute your programs on the native Clipper. >These lib's are on the CD that accompanied the system. >..... But I don't have that CD > >Alas, Linux or NetBSD would be nice. But Ingr is not forthcoming with the >systemdetails. So any one out there that could leverage some goodwill >on the side of Ingr. to part with Interpro, Clipper and CLIX secrets ........ > >...... might set of the first porting attempts! > >Meanwhile a lot of these systems get scrapped and the Clipper heritage >slowly goes into the big void of remote history. It's rather ironical that >the system does not yet deserve the label of vintage computer because >it is not even 10 years old. The BIOS-productiondate on my system >reads 1994! > >So if you feel as sad about this wastefull drama as I do .... Let's unite >and let us be heard of... > >I will address these matters on this group in the near future and may >propose a mild flame towards Ingr. to persuade and petition them >to put more of their Clipper material in the public domain. But first >I need to learn more about these matters > >I personally am not capable of porting anything since I am still busy >getting used to CLIX, UNIX, LINUX or whatever. > >Reactions please ........... > >Sipke de Wal --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Sat Aug 26 18:09:40 2000 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Kevin Stumpf/Nostalgic Technophile/Unusual Systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: WTB - dictionaries about computer terminology. References: <000701c00f14$364e7d50$013da8c0@Corellian> Message-ID: <001001c00fb2$b73b8360$2a38acce@kstumpf> If you have a such a dictionary that you want to sell, please contact me. Thank you. Kevin Stumpf - The Nostalgic Technophile - Unusual Systems www.nostalgictechnophile.com - 519.744.2900 EST/EDT (GMT - 5) From ss at allegro.com Sat Aug 26 18:34:52 2000 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: CP/M for HP 87? Message-ID: <39A7F1AC.32561.4D58628@localhost> Hi, I'm looking for CP/M software for an HP 87 with an HP 82900A CP/M cartridge! Any pointers/help appreciatd! thanks, Stan Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Sat Aug 26 20:39:55 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: CP/M for HP 87? Message-ID: <009501c00fc8$fc8c8fc0$e10a9a8d@ajp166> on the subject of TI calcs... OT too! I see TI86s and 83s are around. Are any of these Z80 powered? Allison From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Sat Aug 26 21:23:06 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:58 2005 Subject: CP/M for HP 87? In-Reply-To: <009501c00fc8$fc8c8fc0$e10a9a8d@ajp166> from ajp166 at "Aug 26, 0 09:39:55 pm" Message-ID: <200008270223.TAA15916@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > on the subject of TI calcs... OT too! > > I see TI86s and 83s are around. Are any of these Z80 powered? I'm pretty sure the 85s are, at least. Never opened mine up, though. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- An apple every eight hours will keep three doctors away. ------------------- From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Sun Aug 27 06:11:02 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: looking for teletype KSR-43 ribbons References: Message-ID: <00cc01c01018$08d96ba0$0200a8c0@netcafe.pirie.mtx.net.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: Don Maslin To: Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 6:38 AM Subject: Re: looking for teletype KSR-43 ribbons > > > On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > > http://www.partsalliance.com/ne/ribbons.htm > > > > A package of 6 Teletype 43/45 ribbons is $16.62, or $20.28 including tax. > > Of course, this site is in Austrailia... > > Wow! A 22% tax! Shipping not included I presume. That would be wrong, we went to a retail price based GST of 10% on 1 July from a wholesale price sales tax of 22%. It's likely the site has not been updated yet. I can get these through a local office machine supplier for around $8 ea incl tax. They are still quite easy to get. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia, geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au From jpl15 at panix.com Sun Aug 27 10:41:43 2000 From: jpl15 at panix.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: New Email address Message-ID: Hello Collecting friends. I am currently on 'inactive' status as far as classic computer collecting goes, so my participation on the List has been mostly in R/O mode. My old (+7 years!) ISP has seen fit to discontinue all it's Unix Shell accounts effective Sept 30 of this year. I have therefore signed up with another old-line ISP, panix.com in New York. Should any of you on the list be considering changing your ISP for any reason, especially if you are primarily a telnet user.. I can highly recomend them. Their customer service has been a) excellent and b) proactive; a state of affairs unheard-of in my years on the Net. Since I am now living and working in Southern India, I have bestowed my collection en masse to a couple of Listmembers and will not be actively pursuing the hobby for a year or two. Getting a full-blown 11/44 system thru checked baggage is one thing, but dealing with Indian customs..... ;) I would like to take this small opportunity to publicly thank each and everyone of you one the List who help to preserve these old beasts, and also I would like to thank Allison, Megan, Tim, Sellam, Bruce, Marvin, Tony Duell, Eric, Don Maslin, Hans Franke, Eliot Moore, and all the rest who took time and effort to help me unravel DEC as it was meant to be. I have unsubbed the netcom account and subscribed at the panix addrr, and I'll continue to monitor the list, although it is doubtful I'll be posting much. I have found one cache of more-than-ten-year-old stuff, mostly Commie and Atari. I'll post more when I have a chance to check it out. Don't get too excited. Buyer pays shipping... Cheers John From nabil at SpiritOne.com Sun Aug 27 15:21:00 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: looking for teletype KSR-43 ribbons In-Reply-To: <00cc01c01018$08d96ba0$0200a8c0@netcafe.pirie.mtx.net.au> Message-ID: On Sun, 27 Aug 2000, Geoff Roberts wrote: > . . . > I can get these through a local office machine supplier for around $8 ea > incl tax. They are still quite easy to get. I was hoping someone would have a stash, yes, they are still easy to order, which I ended up doing. If you don't mind clones, you can get a Intec (not crap) RI1039E from http://www.theverylastword.com/ribbons.htm for about $5/ea, or if you want the genuine article order a AT&T 127815 for about $8/ea from 10kplus.com like I did yesterday. -- Aaron Nabil From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Aug 27 20:34:01 2000 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: CP/M for HP 87? In-Reply-To: <39A7F1AC.32561.4D58628@localhost> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000827203401.3b079484@mailhost.intellistar.net> Stan, I have the ROM but I've never tried to use it. I don't have the instructions for it so I don't know much about it. I have CPM for the HP 120 and I'm hoping that it will work with the ROM but I don't know if it will or not. Joe At 04:34 PM 8/26/00 -0700, you wrote: >Hi, > >I'm looking for CP/M software for an HP 87 with >an HP 82900A CP/M cartridge! > >Any pointers/help appreciatd! > >thanks, > >Stan > >Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com >www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler > From gehrich at tampabay.rr.com Sun Aug 27 20:25:59 2000 From: gehrich at tampabay.rr.com (Gene Ehrich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Looking for Thinkpad 500 Battery In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000827203401.3b079484@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <39A7F1AC.32561.4D58628@localhost> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000827212507.009dad30@popmail.voicenet.com> The title says it all. New, used or rebuild. ================================= Gene Ehrich gene@ehrich.com gehrich@tampabay.rr.com From Jgzabol at aol.com Mon Aug 28 04:38:59 2000 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: asgnpart.com Message-ID: <14.85f9194.26db8d33@aol.com> Hello, would anyone know where I could find the MS-DOS progam asgnpart.com, which was part of some of the versions 3.x and 4.x, but not of all these versions. None of the versions in my possession have it, unfortunately, and some application I want to run has to have it. Thanks and regards John G. Zabolitzky From dpeschel at eskimo.com Mon Aug 28 06:00:38 2000 From: dpeschel at eskimo.com (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: OT: Re: Windows CE (was future classic) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.20000728112552.500f5cf0@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Jul 28, 2000 11:25:52 AM Message-ID: <200008281100.EAA24463@eskimo.com> > What the hell is Windows ME? Windows MistakE? FWIW Windows CE is now > offically dead. I guess Billy Boy is going to try and pull another fast one > on us and try to convince us that now we need to spend more money and buy > his new and improved OS. CE is not dead (trust me, every day I test software for it at work). Microsoft's Web site also mentions that CE 3.0 just became available. If you are talking about that "PC Powered" hoopla, that was a slimy marketing move (picking a new name for the same old stuff -- MS is very fond of that maneuver). It was not a slimy engineering move, which would have been much worse. Microsoft seems to have decided that it was a bad idea because I don't think they're using the term these days. They probably want people to forget it ever happened. They _do_ have something called NT Embedded but I don't know anything about it (my company works with it, but it's a different part of the company). -- Derek From hansp at digiweb.com Mon Aug 28 07:09:54 2000 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Your planed visit References: <14.85f9194.26db8d33@aol.com> Message-ID: <39AA5692.B2562D5@digiweb.com> Hi John, Hope this gets to you! I had a disk crash over the weekend and lost a whole bunch of eMails, yours included Remind me when you are planning on visiting us here in Grenoble. I am in conatct with another enthusiast in Paris who would also like to visit and who is very intertesed in valve computers so I thought to arrange for you both to meet here. As always, work intervenes, it looks like I will be out on town the thrir week in September 18-22. I don't know if that clashes with your plans, but even if it does I will arrange for someone to be here to meet with you. Regards Hans B Pufal From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Mon Aug 28 07:53:54 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (FBA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Windows CE (was future classic) Message-ID: <000801c010ef$0cc5c650$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> You're talking about Wind-Mill the replacement for Win98 that is supposed to be the last consumer only version before the grand gathering of NT "technology" and general public mass market distribution of DOS. Remember grasshopper, there can be only one. Or something like that Francois -----Original Message----- From: Derek Peschel To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 6:08 AM Subject: OT: Re: Windows CE (was future classic) >> What the hell is Windows ME? Windows MistakE? FWIW Windows CE is now >> offically dead. I guess Billy Boy is going to try and pull another fast one >> on us and try to convince us that now we need to spend more money and buy >> his new and improved OS. > From swolfe1 at mail.gcnet.net Mon Aug 28 08:34:35 2000 From: swolfe1 at mail.gcnet.net (The Basement) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: CP/M for HP 87? References: <200008280941.EAA03774@opal.tseinc.com> Message-ID: <000701c010f4$b55539e0$0190fea9@beast> The 86's and 89's and 92's ( I think the 92 may also have a Z80, though) are powerd by a cmos version of the Motorolla 68000, the same processor as the 68k Macs. The 82, 83 and 85 are powered by Z80's. HP48g's use a processor called the Saturn that was made for the calc, which I think is far superior to the TI Calcs. The HP48gx has a card slot to upgrade the ram, add functions, printers, etc. It also has an IR port. From hansp at digiweb.com Mon Aug 28 10:16:15 2000 From: hansp at digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Your planned visit References: <14.85f9194.26db8d33@aol.com> <39AA5692.B2562D5@digiweb.com> Message-ID: <39AA823F.B20C52DF@digiweb.com> Apologies, this was supposed to have been a provate message to John Zabolitzky -- Hans From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Aug 28 09:31:53 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Your planned visit In-Reply-To: <39AA823F.B20C52DF@digiweb.com> Message-ID: <39AA93F9.19696.ECED464@localhost> Bon jour Hans, > Apologies, this was supposed to have been a provate message to John > Zabolitzky Well, at least I you're still alive :) Maybe you don't remember, but a long time ago we talked about Thomson Home Computers (TO/MO...), and you agreed to look a bit around for some. Did you sore anything ? I'm still interested in them, any shape (although I realy love to see a brand new in a box system :). As you may remember I'm searching for a Thompson system for an American friend. If you already have some computers/systems when John leaves, he may bring them to munich. He'll also pay your expenses. Anyway, have a great day. Servus Hans BTW: Do you plan to revise the CCC list ? -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Aug 28 09:35:31 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Your planned visit In-Reply-To: <39AA93F9.19696.ECED464@localhost> References: <39AA823F.B20C52DF@digiweb.com> Message-ID: <39AA94D3.10501.ED22525@localhost> > > Apologies, this was supposed to have been a provate message to John > > Zabolitzky OOOOOOOOPS - guess I'll a good start position for the next darwin award ... Sorry H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Mon Aug 28 09:59:33 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: New Email address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001b01c01100$93f65340$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> John said: > My old (+7 years!) ISP has seen fit to discontinue all it's Unix > Shell accounts effective Sept 30 of this year. I have therefore > signed up with another old-line ISP, panix.com in New York. Excellent choice! While I hope that Panix isn't the last Unix shell ISP around, I'm very happy with it and I hope that people wanting more options from their ISP continue to find Panix.com. John A. allain@panix.com since 1994 From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Aug 28 10:01:07 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay In-Reply-To: <003601c00f63$a428f360$1504c7d8@doglap> Message-ID: <39AA9AD3.3089.EE994F6@localhost> > But I still have (many) more computers that will get maybe now more of my > attention and I sure can use the money. Like your still pmpressive pile of SWTPC ? :)) Good luck Hans -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Aug 28 10:59:26 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: New Email address In-Reply-To: <001b01c01100$93f65340$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> from John Allain at "Aug 28, 0 10:59:33 am" Message-ID: <200008281559.IAA10450@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > My old (+7 years!) ISP has seen fit to discontinue all it's Unix > > Shell accounts effective Sept 30 of this year. I have therefore > > signed up with another old-line ISP, panix.com in New York. > > Excellent choice! While I hope that Panix isn't the last Unix shell > ISP around, I'm very happy with it and I hope that people wanting more > options from their ISP continue to find Panix.com. I'm still maintaining my shell ISP list at http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/shell/ -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- This signature is free of dihydrogen monoxide! Ban it now! www.dhmo.org ---- From marvin at rain.org Mon Aug 28 11:08:58 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: asgnpart.com References: <14.85f9194.26db8d33@aol.com> Message-ID: <39AA8E9A.E2888612@rain.org> Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > > Hello, > > would anyone know where I could find the MS-DOS progam asgnpart.com, > which was part of some of the versions 3.x and 4.x, but not of all these > versions. This is a new one on me; what does it do and is the spelling correct? From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Mon Aug 28 11:34:27 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: New Email address Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0A6@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > John said: > > > My old (+7 years!) ISP has seen fit to discontinue all it's Unix > > Shell accounts effective Sept 30 of this year. I have therefore > > signed up with another old-line ISP, panix.com in New York. > > Excellent choice! While I hope that Panix isn't the last Unix shell > ISP around, I'm very happy with it and I hope that people wanting more > options from their ISP continue to find Panix.com. > > John A. > allain@panix.com since 1994 They are dwindling, but not gone; IGLOU.COM (Internet Gateway of LOUisville) has grown from a local to a regional provider, and without shell access I don't know what I'd do... -doug q dougq@iglou.com since 1994 (or sooner) From dogas at leading.net Mon Aug 28 12:35:42 2000 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay Message-ID: <000c01c01116$64dafdc0$d205c7d8@doglap> From: Hans Franke >Like your still pmpressive pile of SWTPC ? > >:)) > Yeah, I'm really digging my 680x stuff. ;) - Mike From dogas at leading.net Mon Aug 28 13:14:20 2000 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay Message-ID: <003901c0111b$ca253880$d205c7d8@doglap> >Yeah, I'm really digging my 680x stuff. D'oh, that should be equally read: ...still digging into... ;) - Mike From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 28 12:54:37 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: CP/M for HP 87? In-Reply-To: <000701c010f4$b55539e0$0190fea9@beast> from "The Basement" at Aug 28, 0 09:34:35 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2846 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000828/47d4f59d/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 28 13:33:49 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: New Email address In-Reply-To: <200008281559.IAA10450@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Mon, 28 Aug 2000, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > > My old (+7 years!) ISP has seen fit to discontinue all it's Unix > > > Shell accounts effective Sept 30 of this year. I have therefore > > > signed up with another old-line ISP, panix.com in New York. > > > > Excellent choice! While I hope that Panix isn't the last Unix shell > > ISP around, I'm very happy with it and I hope that people wanting more > > options from their ISP continue to find Panix.com. > > I'm still maintaining my shell ISP list at > > http://www.armory.com/%7Espectre/shell/ And I mine with cts.com. - don > ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- This signature is free of dihydrogen monoxide! Ban it now! www.dhmo.org ---- > From donm at cts.com Mon Aug 28 14:37:14 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: (fwd) Xerox 1186 Give away... (fwd) Message-ID: Found the following on usenet. If interested, reply directly, not to me. - don ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Path: thoth.cts.com!mercury.cts.com!nuq-feed.news.verio.net!iad-peer.news.verio.net!iad-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!carrier.kiev.ua!news.uar.net!fu-berlin.de!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news-xfer.newsread.com!bad-news.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!POSTED.newshog.newsread.com!not-for-mail Sender: sdb@redhotmomma.ssr.com Newsgroups: comp.sys.xerox Subject: Xerox 1186 Give away... From: Scott Ballantyne Message-ID: Lines: 17 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:20:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.4.235.2 X-Complaints-To: Abuse Role , We Care X-Trace: newshog.newsread.com 967486828 199.4.235.2 (Mon, 28 Aug 2000 14:20:28 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 14:20:28 EDT Organization: Intercom Online (intercom.com) Xref: thoth.cts.com comp.sys.xerox:1687 I have an old 1186, one of the early lisp machines from Xerox, which I have had in a warehouse for too long, awaiting my move to a larger apartment. Well, I live in NYC, and larger apartments still cost more than I'm willing to spend. So the long and the short of it is, if you want this machine, you may have it. The monitor is a greyscale, of the huge, Startrek variety, I have forgotten which release of the OS I have, possibly Koto, quite a few of the original manuals, loads of fonts, contrib disks, etc. It worked well when I warehoused it, and I assume it would still work, modulo reseating some of the chips, and reloading the OS, natch. So if you are in the NYC area, and want it, drop me a note. Best, sdb -- end of forwarded message -- From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Aug 28 17:18:06 2000 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: CP/M for HP 87? In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk's message of "Mon, 28 Aug 2000 18:54:37 +0100 (BST)" References: Message-ID: <200008282218.PAA19104@daemonweed.reanimators.org> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > Incidentally, the CPU in the Thinkjet printer also seems to be a Saturn. > It's a 48 pin package containing the CPU, I/O ports, some of the ROM > (there's an external ROM and RAM hooked up to it), and an HPIL interface. Even in the non-HP-IL Thinkjets? I really don't know, I've never taken screwdrivers to Thinkjets to compare their internal architectures. -Frank McConnell From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 28 17:38:17 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: CP/M for HP 87? In-Reply-To: <200008282218.PAA19104@daemonweed.reanimators.org> from "Frank McConnell" at Aug 28, 0 03:18:06 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2093 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000828/33f410f2/attachment.ksh From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Mon Aug 28 17:50:11 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: CP/M for HP 87? Message-ID: <005001c01143$9f9e8120$870e9a8d@ajp166> From: The Basement To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org ; classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 10:00 AM Subject: Re: CP/M for HP 87? >The 86's and 89's and 92's ( I think the 92 may also have a Z80, though) are Are you saying the TI86 is or is not z80? Some of the web sites I've looked at since posting seem to make a strong point that it is. Allison From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Aug 28 18:29:57 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: CP/M for HP 87? In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <20000828232957.23872.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony Duell wrote: > The saturn was used in just about all HP handheld calculators since the > HP71B. It's gone through several revisions over the years, and later > versions (as used in the 48 and 49) have instructions that are not used > by the original version used in the 71. I believe that it is not used in the HP 6S (either version) or 30S. It appears that these models are OEM'd by HP from another vendor, although HP won't comment on it. > Incidentally, the CPU in the Thinkjet printer also seems to be a Saturn. > It's a 48 pin package containing the CPU, I/O ports, some of the ROM > (there's an external ROM and RAM hooked up to it), and an HPIL interface. I don't think it's a Saturn. ISTR that the Thinkjet uses the same 8-bit CPU core that's buried in the 71B HP-IL module, and several other HP devices from the same timeframe. There's very little information available about it. From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Aug 28 18:33:24 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: CP/M for HP 87? In-Reply-To: <200008282218.PAA19104@daemonweed.reanimators.org> (message from Frank McConnell on 28 Aug 2000 15:18:06 -0700) References: <200008282218.PAA19104@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <20000828233324.23909.qmail@brouhaha.com> Frank McConnell wrote: > Even in the non-HP-IL Thinkjets? I really don't know, I've never taken > screwdrivers to Thinkjets to compare their internal architectures. The main chip in the Thinkjet has an integral HP-IL interface. Some non-HP-IL Thinkjet models work by adding an HP-IL-to-other-interface converter. I'm told that some of the parallel (Centronics) Thinkjets do not use a converter, but I haven't confirmed that. The Thinkjet in the HP 9807A Integral (the 68K & HP-UX based "lunchbox" machine) actually uses the HP-IL interface to talk to the main CPU (via the standard 1LB3 HP-IL chip). They didn't bring the HP-IL out to an external connector for additional devices, although they offered an HP-IL expansion card. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 28 18:43:58 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: CP/M for HP 87? In-Reply-To: <20000828232957.23872.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Aug 28, 0 11:29:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1884 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000829/5292d96a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Aug 28 18:45:37 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: CP/M for HP 87? In-Reply-To: <20000828233324.23909.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Aug 28, 0 11:33:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1109 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000829/6bd0d018/attachment.ksh From rcini at optonline.net Mon Aug 28 19:08:09 2000 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Brochure re: CSG liquidation Message-ID: Hi: I don't know if anyone saw this on comp.sys.cbm, but it's an interesting brochure. It's the auction notice brochure from 1994 for the Commodore Semiconductor Group. I work for the asset-based financing division of the sixth-largest bank in the US, and we've used Ross-Dove for our auctions and liquidations. It's a nice brochure with detailed pictures. Sad, none the less, but a great brochure. http://archive.dovebid.com/company/archive/commodore.htm Rich [ Rich Cini [ ClubWin!/CW1 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ <================ reply separator =================> From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Aug 28 19:21:06 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: CP/M for HP 87? In-Reply-To: <005001c01143$9f9e8120$870e9a8d@ajp166> from ajp166 at "Aug 28, 0 06:50:11 pm" Message-ID: <200008290021.RAA08876@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > >The 86's and 89's and 92's ( I think the 92 may also have a Z80, though) are > > Are you saying the TI86 is or is not z80? Some of the web sites > I've looked at since posting seem to make a strong point that it is. The 86 is definitely Z80. It's just an 85 with some firmware fixes and more memory. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants. -- Gen. O. N. Bradley From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Mon Aug 28 19:29:16 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Brochure re: CSG liquidation In-Reply-To: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at "Aug 28, 0 08:08:09 pm" Message-ID: <200008290029.RAA07950@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I don't know if anyone saw this on comp.sys.cbm, but it's an interesting > brochure. It's the auction notice brochure from 1994 for the Commodore > Semiconductor Group. I work for the asset-based financing division of the > sixth-largest bank in the US, and we've used Ross-Dove for our auctions and > liquidations. It's a nice brochure with detailed pictures. > > Sad, none the less, but a great brochure. > > http://archive.dovebid.com/company/archive/commodore.htm Yeah, I downloaded all the images. Very informative and a rare look into what MOS Technology became. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Wagner's music is better than it sounds. -- Mark Twain --------------------- From rcini at optonline.net Mon Aug 28 20:45:35 2000 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Altair emulator project - update Message-ID: Hello, all: I've made some significant progress on adding a virtual paper tape punch/reader to Claus Guiloi's Altair Emulator. There are several other things that I need to work on, such as the "punching" part of the punch, console I/O (a virtual terminal), and port I/O. Any other feature suggestions are welcome. I've made contact with Claus and he has agreed, time permitting, to review my code. I've spent much of the time learning Windows/C programming, so it's not pretty, but it works. There is also another individual at MS who worked on several other additions to the emulator, but I haven't spoken with him yet. He's made some other enhancements, particularly to the core emulation code. What I'd like to do is to test the file loading/saving code with some live code so that I can see it actually work. So, I'd like to ask the audience for some sample Altair programs based on the following specs: - the image files need to be in both Intel HEX and/or straight binary format. - program samples should include both front-panel and VDT oriented programs. - I'd like to get a range of application and system programs, including BASIC and a monitor program. - I'd like to get a range of file sizes and load locations, too. That's all for now. If anyone has any suggestions, let me know. Rich [ Rich Cini [ ClubWin!/CW1 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ <================ reply separator =================> From nerdware at laidbak.com Mon Aug 28 21:01:11 2000 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Brochure re: CSG liquidation In-Reply-To: <200008290029.RAA07950@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at "Aug 28, 0 08:08:09 pm" Message-ID: <200008290201.e7T21WO17107@grover.winsite.com> A little C= trivia on the subject -- after C= went belly-up and the plant was vacated, what then-fledgling but now-very famous and extremely successful company bought the Westchester facility to start it's empire? Paul > > I don't know if anyone saw this on comp.sys.cbm, but it's an > > interesting brochure. It's the auction notice brochure from 1994 for the > > Commodore Semiconductor Group. I work for the asset-based financing > > division of the sixth-largest bank in the US, and we've used Ross-Dove > > for our auctions and liquidations. It's a nice brochure with detailed > > pictures. > > > > Sad, none the less, but a great brochure. > > > > http://archive.dovebid.com/company/archive/commodore.htm > > Yeah, I downloaded all the images. Very informative and a rare look into > what MOS Technology became. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Wagner's music is better than it sounds. -- Mark Twain > --------------------- > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com From nerdware at laidbak.com Mon Aug 28 21:11:52 2000 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Windows CE and an OT rant In-Reply-To: <000801c010ef$0cc5c650$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: <200008290212.e7T2C8O17213@grover.winsite.com> You might remember the big press release that stated that the term "Windows CE" would no longer be used, it was being replaced by the term "Windows Powered" for handheld devices. Now, I, myself, personally, enjoy the oxymoron that is created when you enclose the words "Windows" and "Powered" in the same set of parentheses, however, it still can't hide the fact that it's slow and bloated, and PalmOS is kicking it's butt. Of course, we seem to forget where it all came from, and that's my little pal the Newton. Kick-butt device, poor market positioning. Still use my MP100, will upgrade to a Newt2K when they come down a little more on ebay. And on an OT note, in the name-change vein, what brain trust decided that we should call AT&T Labs "Lucent Technologies" or take the long-respected brand name of Hewlett-Packard Instruments and start calling them "Agilent Technologies", a name that I haven't heard pronounced the same way twice, or again taking the universally-recognizable brand name of Ameritech Cellular and renaming it to the mouth-deforming "Verizon Wireless", a name which, until I finally saw it in print, I had no idea how to spell much less look up on the web. Apparently they anticipated that, since they registered every domain name based on variations of "Verizon" and routed them all to the home page.... Paul > You're talking about Wind-Mill the replacement for Win98 that is supposed > to be the last consumer only version before the grand gathering of NT > "technology" and general public mass market distribution of DOS. Remember > grasshopper, there can be only one. Or something like that Francois > > -----Original Message----- > From: Derek Peschel > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Date: Monday, August 28, 2000 6:08 AM > Subject: OT: Re: Windows CE (was future classic) > > > >> What the hell is Windows ME? Windows MistakE? FWIW Windows CE is > >> now > >> offically dead. I guess Billy Boy is going to try and pull another fast > one > >> on us and try to convince us that now we need to spend more money and > >> buy his new and improved OS. > > > > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com From ryan at inc.net Mon Aug 28 22:27:58 2000 From: ryan at inc.net (Ryan K. Brooks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Brochure re: CSG liquidation References: from "Richard A. Cini, Jr." at "Aug 28, 0 08:08:09 pm" <200008290201.e7T21WO17107@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <39AB2DBE.AD173772@inc.net> qvc Paul Braun wrote: > A little C= trivia on the subject -- after C= went belly-up and the > plant was vacated, what then-fledgling but now-very famous and > extremely successful company bought the Westchester facility to > start it's empire? > > Paul > > > > I don't know if anyone saw this on comp.sys.cbm, but it's an > > > interesting brochure. It's the auction notice brochure from 1994 for the > > > Commodore Semiconductor Group. I work for the asset-based financing > > > division of the sixth-largest bank in the US, and we've used Ross-Dove > > > for our auctions and liquidations. It's a nice brochure with detailed > > > pictures. > > > > > > Sad, none the less, but a great brochure. > > > > > > http://archive.dovebid.com/company/archive/commodore.htm > > > > Yeah, I downloaded all the images. Very informative and a rare look into > > what MOS Technology became. > > > > -- > > ----------------------------- personal page: > > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > > -- Wagner's music is better than it sounds. -- Mark Twain > > --------------------- > > > > Paul Braun WD9GCO > Cygnus Productions > nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com From ghldbrd at ccp.com Tue Aug 29 09:55:22 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Windows CE and an OT rant In-Reply-To: <200008290212.e7T2C8O17213@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: Hello Paul On 28-Aug-00, you wrote: snip snip > And on an OT note, in the name-change vein, what brain trust > decided that we should call AT&T Labs "Lucent Technologies" or > take the long-respected brand name of Hewlett-Packard > Instruments and start calling them "Agilent Technologies", a name > that I haven't heard pronounced the same way twice, or again > taking the universally-recognizable brand name of Ameritech > Cellular and renaming it to the mouth-deforming "Verizon > Wireless", a name which, until I finally saw it in print, I had no idea > how to spell much less look up on the web. Apparently they > anticipated that, since they registered every domain name based > on variations of "Verizon" and routed them all to the home page.... A new coat of paint covers a multitude of rust spots . . . . > > > > Paul Marketing says a new name has new connotations . . . Gary Hildebrand ghldbrd@ccp.com From agraham at ccat.co.uk Tue Aug 29 06:28:18 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay Message-ID: <00Aug29.122818bst.46097@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Obviously nobody thinks it's worth $5K! > -----Original Message----- > From: John Lewczyk [mailto:jlewczyk@his.com] > Sent: 26 August 2000 05:28 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay > > > For what its worth... > > Because there are so many vintage machines, I thought I'd > pass along the url of > the auction and the list of machines. Its a rather > impressive collection for > sale. > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=419928107 > From agraham at ccat.co.uk Tue Aug 29 06:30:08 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay Message-ID: <00Aug29.123009bst.46097@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> They *are* taking over my computer room and garage though :) > -----Original Message----- > From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] > Sent: 26 August 2000 18:01 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: large collection of vintage machines on ebay > > > On Sat, 26 Aug 2000, Mike wrote: > > > Thanks for the sympathy, but dont let your posessions > become your master. > > A good point. > > Sellam International Man of > Intrigue and Danger > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------------- > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Aug 29 06:49:49 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: References: <39A6FEC4.29704.CFFBD5@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Aug 25, 0 11:18:28 pm Message-ID: <39ABBF7D.24130.1360CD16@localhost> > > > The PC6 was a disapointment :-(. It's a Casio clone, of course (I forget > > > which model). It's got the same BASIC (essentially) as the PC4, with the > > > same 10 'program areas' and common variables for all programs. It does > > > have more memory (8K IIRC). > > PB 1000 ? > No idea. I don't bother too much with Casio machines... > It's a black clamshell case, hinged along the back edge (a bit like most > palmtops, e.g. the HP95LX, etc). The upper part has a 1-line alphanumeric > LCD and a 3 row membrane keyboard, containing the letters (it's > essentially QWERTY layout) and some special keys. > The lower part has the numeric keypad, 'calculator' function keys (SIN, > LN, etc) and the power swtich (a slide switch at the far left). I belive it is the PB1000 model > > > The 'assembler' is a cheat!. It's not an assembler for the PC6's CPU, > > > it's an assembler for a mythical 16 bit CPU. There's also a simulator for > > > said CPU in the machine so you can run your 'assembly language' programs. > > > But it's pretty limited in what it can do, and you certainly can't access > > > hardware features of the PC6. > > Well, as you prefer - I thought of the assembler as quite nice > > tool to write programs with faster execution than in basic, > > and you could access (most?) hardware - I did some nice graphic > > games with it, impossible in basic. > That's exactly the point. The main use of assembly language (especially > on these small machines) is to allow you to do things that you can't do > from BASIC (display non-standard characters, detect multiple keys down at > the same time, have key down and key up 'events', toggle I/O port lines, > control individual dots on the display, etc, etc) or to do things faster > than BASIC would allow. > Now, this 'assembler' didn't do any of that. It was slow. As slow as > BASIC IIRC. And the _only_ I/O was to input a value to one of the 4 GR > registers (either in decimal or hex) or to display one of the GR > registers in decimal or hex, in a predermined format (it was something > like 'GR0(10)=1234'). Not even the ability to output a string of characters. Maybe I useda wrong wording here, I _did_ a graphics game on the Casio using the assembler - and it was quite faster than the same game in BASIC. > And, of course, no access to the real machine's hardware. Depends how to define access. > > Also, when is an assembler real ? Maybe with an exeptinon of > > early PDP8s, where the coding did realy trigger the hardware > Hmmmm.... I've never had any problems visualising what a given assembly > language instruction does to the real machine, at least not at the level > of the lowest available documentation. > In other words, if I have the gate-level scheamtics and the microcode > flows (if appropriate), then I can work out what an instruction does to > each gate in the CPU. If it's a micro, well, I can work out what will > appear on the buses, and thus what the rest of the hardware will do. Etc. And given the same documentation you can do it for the Assembler instructions in here ... the difference between a 'real' assm code interpreted by some micro code, and a the Casio ting, run by a interpreter written in 'real' assm is non existent the behavior is determistic in both ways. Even when you consider that you may now have 3 levels (Hardware/Real/Pseudo) is not uncommon, there have been microprocessors with 2 build in levels of interpretation The 'real' assm code was run by microcode, where some microcode instructions itself did use 'nano'code to perform. Of course you may name it as some special kind of sub function code - bust still you may use the same abstractions on any scheme (like the Casio). Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Aug 29 06:49:49 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <200008211925.MAA10798@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <006a01c00ba0$d1d08330$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> from FBA at "Aug 21, 0 01:51:18 pm" Message-ID: <39ABBF7D.7853.1360CD16@localhost> > [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] BTW: who is inserting this rubbish ? > > How about starting a request list of stuff we're hoping to find for > > trade/sale/free at the VCF > > -beer (speaking of which: If you owe me a beer, you'll have a chance to pay > > up this VCF.) > Dr. Pepper. Flowing freely. By the gallon. Mr. Pibb even better. > Does canned Mr. Pibb exist *anywhere*? It seems to only exist as a fountain > drink, at least here in So. Cal. Well, I agree for the Beer part, but what the heck you are talking about ? > Also, someone PLEASE be selling M100 RAM modules there -- my 8201A needs a > brain upgrade. don't they accept plain 6116/6264 ? Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From RCini at congressfinancial.com Tue Aug 29 07:32:43 2000 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Brochure re: CSG liquidation Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E318B@MAIL10> GMT Microelectronics. http://www.gmtme.com What do I win?? ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) -----Original Message----- From: Paul Braun [mailto:nerdware@laidbak.com] Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 10:01 PM To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Subject: Re: Brochure re: CSG liquidation A little C= trivia on the subject -- after C= went belly-up and the plant was vacated, what then-fledgling but now-very famous and extremely successful company bought the Westchester facility to start it's empire? Paul > > I don't know if anyone saw this on comp.sys.cbm, but it's an > > interesting brochure. It's the auction notice brochure from 1994 for the > > Commodore Semiconductor Group. I work for the asset-based financing > > division of the sixth-largest bank in the US, and we've used Ross-Dove > > for our auctions and liquidations. It's a nice brochure with detailed > > pictures. > > > > Sad, none the less, but a great brochure. > > > > http://archive.dovebid.com/company/archive/commodore.htm > > Yeah, I downloaded all the images. Very informative and a rare look into > what MOS Technology became. > > -- > ----------------------------- personal page: > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > -- Wagner's music is better than it sounds. -- Mark Twain > --------------------- > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Aug 29 08:40:17 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <39ABBF7D.7853.1360CD16@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Aug 29, 0 01:49:49 pm" Message-ID: <200008291340.GAA09032@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Also, someone PLEASE be selling M100 RAM modules there -- my 8201A needs a > > brain upgrade. > > don't they accept plain 6116/6264 ? Who sells those? (And I don't know, do they?) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The whippings shall continue until morale improves. ------------------------ From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 29 07:33:58 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay In-Reply-To: <00Aug29.122818bst.46097@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Adrian Graham wrote: > Obviously nobody thinks it's worth $5K! Taking eBay prices into account, I think it was a bargain. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 29 08:47:27 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: OT: Philips "Easy-Connect" modem Message-ID: <001201c011bf$ac004b20$72483cd1@winbook> I know this isn't what we're here to discuss, but I was wondering if anybody uses or has experience with a Philips 56K-flex "EasyConnect" modem. The woman who lives next-door to my Mom, and has for the past 40+ years is a virtual shut-in due to her dependence on oxygen due to her advanced emphysema from years of smoking, an her computer is an important source of outlet and outside-world contact for her. I recently replaced her hard-disk for her, having installed this entire system, bit-by-bit, over a number of years, and it has worked remarkably well until recently. I installed her hard disk and reinstalled the Windows95 (no update to '98 because the OSR-2 version of '95 worked so satisfactorily for her) and everything works beautifully EXCEPT the MODEM. This model is a Plug-N-Play modem, and slid in effortlessly when I first set it up for her, but her motherboard is not a plug-n-play type of board. It doesn't attempt to go out and manipulate the devices that are out there in order to configure the interrupts and port locations. I'm curious whether anyone has had to solve this sort of problem before and has a solution. I've tried everything I could think of and have had no luck at all. Any reasonable suggestions are welcome. thanks, Dick -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000829/1f91497c/attachment.html From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Aug 29 09:26:14 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: Nixdorf Computer - unknown model In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <39ABE426.783.13F0041C@localhost> > I was wondering: Can you guys help me determine what kind of computer I > have here? I got this old system from a friend, without any documentation, > when I switch it on, all it does is give me a white screen, and it says: > Top of screen: > SYSTEM 886SX SAP VERSION: SAPPRO 10.10 > Bottom of screen: > MWSS:XB99 LINK:02 LINE:01 R---- S ('S' is flashing) OFFLINE > Is this enough to identify it? It seems enough, but I have no idea what it > is. Nor how to use it. Secondly, if you know what it is, can you try to > tell me where I can get some info on how it works? Or a brief explanation? This looks quite as an Terminal (BAxx) as used in the 886x systems. What you see are just the teminal boot messages. Do you have more information ? maybe a system description ? There should be also a label on the backside with an exact type and ordernumber. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From ncherry at home.net Tue Aug 29 09:35:51 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:56:59 2005 Subject: VCF Requests References: <006a01c00ba0$d1d08330$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> from FBA at "Aug 21, 0 01:51:18 pm" <39ABBF7D.7853.1360CD16@localhost> Message-ID: <39ABCA47.2B4ED605@home.net> Hans Franke wrote: > > Also, someone PLEASE be selling M100 RAM modules there -- my 8201A needs a > > brain upgrade. > > don't they accept plain 6116/6264 ? Actually I think the M100 does accept one of those but the 8201A doesn't. It needs a different set of modules. One of these days I'm going to sit down and just adapt a 512K chip to it and be done with it. -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From whdawson at mlynk.com Tue Aug 29 10:50:59 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: Philips "Easy-Connect" modem In-Reply-To: <001201c011bf$ac004b20$72483cd1@winbook> Message-ID: <000501c011d0$ed3de460$9d9e72d1@cobweb.net> Richard, -> I know this isn't what we're here to discuss, but I was wondering if anybody -> uses or has experience with a Philips 56K-flex "EasyConnect" modem. Not this particular modem. -> I recently replaced her hard-disk for her, Umm... -> I installed her hard disk and reinstalled the Windows95 -> (no update to '98 because the OSR-2 version of '95 worked -> so satisfactorily for her) and everything works beautifully -> EXCEPT the MODEM. -> This model is a Plug-N-Play modem, and slid in effortlessly when -> I first set it up for her, but her motherboard is not a plug-n-play -> type of board. There's the rub. -> It doesn't attempt to go out and manipulate the devices that are out -> there in order to configure the interrupts and port locations. It can't because it can't detect it. Usually there is a driver supplied with a PNP modem that will allow you to initialize it as to which port and interrupt it will use when using it in a non-PNP motherboard. The driver has the modem PNP setup port address imbedded in it to do this, whereas a PNP motherboard and BIOS will do it for you. I use the word driver loosely here, as it is just a program that configures the modem and usually does not stay resident. This driver will usually be run from within autoexec.bat. Some modems use NVRAM to store the settings and the driver only needs to be used when changing modem port assignments. This doesn't sound like the case here. Some need to run the driver every time the system is restarted. The driver must be set up to run as the system boots, while it is still in Dos mode. If you install and run the driver from the W95 setup disk before starting to install W95, the modem is activated and the W95 install will detect it. On the old hard drive the driver was present, because you used likely used a setup disk for the modem when you installed it. I always check out the autoexec.bat, config.sys, config.dos, etc. before regenning a W95 system. If you have the old hard drive, then set it back up and pull the necessary files, including the modem driver. -> I'm curious whether anyone has had to solve this sort of problem before and has a solution. Oh, yes. Voice of experience here. The same, or worse, difficulties will be found with PNP sound cards. -> I've tried everything I could think of and have had no luck at all. -> Any reasonable suggestions are welcome. Hope I've been of some help. Bill From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Tue Aug 29 10:53:03 2000 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: Chip IDs? Message-ID: <200008291553.LAA25739@swordfin.cs.unc.edu> Hey all, Apologies if this is a repeat; I thought I sent this before, but never saw it in the digest, nor any replies to it. Not sure if my e-mail failed to get out the door here, or if one (or more?) digest failed to make it into my mailbox, but the result is the same. I'm looking for info on the following chip numbers. (TI) SN2789N (TI) SN2792N (Fairchild?) 3005662 (Fairchild?) 3005663 (Fairchild?) 3005664 (Fairchild?) 3005665 (Fairchild?) 3005666 (Fairchild?) 3005668 (maybe another 3005666 - hard to read) >From the age of the machine and the date codes on the chips (late 60's), I expect these to be DTL or RTL or something. I also suspect that 2789 is the same as 3005663, and 2792 is the same as 3005668; some chips show both markings. Cheers, Bill. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Aug 29 12:17:27 2000 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <39ABBF7D.7853.1360CD16@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > How about starting a request list of stuff we're hoping to find for > > > trade/sale/free at the VCF > > > -beer (speaking of which: If you owe me a beer, you'll have a chance to pay > > > up this VCF.) > > > Dr. Pepper. Flowing freely. By the gallon. Mr. Pibb even better. > > > Does canned Mr. Pibb exist *anywhere*? It seems to only exist as a fountain > > drink, at least here in So. Cal. > > Well, I agree for the Beer part, but what the > heck you are talking about ? Classic Coke and Cherry Coke... In grand quantities! -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org || jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Aug 29 12:53:00 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: from James Willing at "Aug 29, 0 10:17:27 am" Message-ID: <200008291753.KAA16828@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > > How about starting a request list of stuff we're hoping to find for > > > > trade/sale/free at the VCF > > > > -beer (speaking of which: If you owe me a beer, you'll have a chance > > > > to pay up this VCF.) > > > Dr. Pepper. Flowing freely. By the gallon. Mr. Pibb even better. > > > Does canned Mr. Pibb exist *anywhere*? It seems to only exist as a > > > fountain drink, at least here in So. Cal. > > Well, I agree for the Beer part, but what the > > heck you are talking about ? > Classic Coke and Cherry Coke... In grand quantities! Blasphemy. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Everything is permissible, but not everything is expedient. -- 1 Cor 6:12 -- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 29 12:19:20 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <39ABBF7D.7853.1360CD16@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Aug 29, 0 01:49:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 922 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000829/97c5fc09/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Aug 29 12:24:52 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <39ABBF7D.24130.1360CD16@localhost> from "Hans Franke" at Aug 29, 0 01:49:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1468 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000829/015f6970/attachment.ksh From transit at lerctr.org Tue Aug 29 13:04:54 2000 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: Recycle that old computer! In-Reply-To: <000501c011d0$ed3de460$9d9e72d1@cobweb.net> Message-ID: http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20000829/2591574s.htm From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Aug 29 15:10:54 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay In-Reply-To: <00Aug29.122818bst.46097@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: >Obviously nobody thinks it's worth $5K! >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=419928107 >> Perhaps for obvious reasons, it is a LARGE mixed batch, which almost nobody could be expected to want all of. Lotting items together like that is throwing money away for the sellers convenience, and greatly reduces the bid value. Then with the first bid at $5k, even if it might sell for that, greatly reduces the chances of getting a first bid. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Aug 29 14:42:04 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: Recycle that old computer! In-Reply-To: References: <000501c011d0$ed3de460$9d9e72d1@cobweb.net> Message-ID: <39AC2E2C.17282.1511294A@localhost> > http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20000829/2591574s.htm Hey, they are not wrong - most 'modern' (read Taiwan/PC) Computers _are_ an environmental problem. It's a bit like with classic cars - Between 1900 and 1955 have been less cars produced, _worldwide_, as we discard now within two years. And the numbers are still climbing. The same I think is true for computers - I guess that Taiwan builds nowadays more computers within one year than Commodore did during their 18 years - including the smash success C64. And as with the cars, it's unlikely that even the absolute number ob preserved Pentium Machines will ever reach the number of preserved 8 Bit machines. Even less the relative number will be relevant. So Computers are realy an environmental problem. Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Aug 29 14:42:04 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: OT: Re: VCF Soft Drink Requests In-Reply-To: <200008291753.KAA16828@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: from James Willing at "Aug 29, 0 10:17:27 am" Message-ID: <39AC2E2C.9074.1511294A@localhost> > > > > > How about starting a request list of stuff we're hoping to find for > > > > > trade/sale/free at the VCF > > > > > -beer (speaking of which: If you owe me a beer, you'll have a chance > > > > > to pay up this VCF.) > > > > Dr. Pepper. Flowing freely. By the gallon. Mr. Pibb even better. > > > > Does canned Mr. Pibb exist *anywhere*? It seems to only exist as a > > > > fountain drink, at least here in So. Cal. > > > Well, I agree for the Beer part, but what the > > > heck you are talking about ? > > Classic Coke and Cherry Coke... In grand quantities! > Blasphemy. :-P Well, without the beer I'll go for the coke, but ya'll have to give me some private lessons about this kind of soft drinks (I took some of Uncle ROgers weired soft drink cans back to Germany (strawbery vanilla flavoured something) and got prety stupid reactions :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Aug 29 15:36:31 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: OT: Re: VCF Soft Drink Requests In-Reply-To: <39AC2E2C.9074.1511294A@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Aug 29, 0 09:42:04 pm" Message-ID: <200008292036.NAA14314@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > > > > How about starting a request list of stuff we're hoping to find for > > > > > > trade/sale/free at the VCF > > > > > > -beer (speaking of which: If you owe me a beer, you'll have a chance > > > > > > to pay up this VCF.) > > > > > Dr. Pepper. Flowing freely. By the gallon. Mr. Pibb even better. > > > > > Does canned Mr. Pibb exist *anywhere*? It seems to only exist as a > > > > > fountain drink, at least here in So. Cal. > > > > Well, I agree for the Beer part, but what the > > > > heck you are talking about ? > > > Classic Coke and Cherry Coke... In grand quantities! > > Blasphemy. :-P > > Well, without the beer I'll go for the coke, but ya'll have > to give me some private lessons about this kind of soft drinks > (I took some of Uncle ROgers weired soft drink cans back to > Germany (strawbery vanilla flavoured something) and got prety > stupid reactions :) I think we need to introduce you to Vernors, too. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Philosophy will clip an angel's wings. -- John Keats ----------------------- From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Tue Aug 29 16:19:28 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (FBA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: OT: Re: VCF Soft Drink Requests Message-ID: <004f01c011fe$d85999d0$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> I'll just stick to good beer thank you. Francois Local person of nundaneness and Safety ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------- Looking for sex in a pile of mimes... -----Original Message----- From: Cameron Kaiser To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 4:02 PM Subject: Re: OT: Re: VCF Soft Drink Requests >> > > > > > How about starting a request list of stuff we're hoping to find for >> > > > > > trade/sale/free at the VCF >> > > > > > -beer (speaking of which: If you owe me a beer, you'll have a chance >> > > > > > to pay up this VCF.) >> > > > > Dr. Pepper. Flowing freely. By the gallon. Mr. Pibb even better. >> > > > > Does canned Mr. Pibb exist *anywhere*? It seems to only exist as a >> > > > > fountain drink, at least here in So. Cal. >> > > > Well, I agree for the Beer part, but what the >> > > > heck you are talking about ? >> > > Classic Coke and Cherry Coke... In grand quantities! >> > Blasphemy. :-P >> >> Well, without the beer I'll go for the coke, but ya'll have >> to give me some private lessons about this kind of soft drinks >> (I took some of Uncle ROgers weired soft drink cans back to >> Germany (strawbery vanilla flavoured something) and got prety >> stupid reactions :) > >I think we need to introduce you to Vernors, too. > >-- >----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu >-- Philosophy will clip an angel's wings. -- John Keats ----------------------- From nerdware at laidbak.com Tue Aug 29 18:09:04 2000 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: Brochure re: CSG liquidation In-Reply-To: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E318B@MAIL10> Message-ID: <200008292309.e7TN9BQ29365@grover.winsite.com> Well, I wasn't aware of that one.... were they the ones that bought the chip factory? I was actually referring to world HQ in Westchester, which Ryan Brooks correctly identified as the QVC shopping network. I've bought stuff from them, and every time I think about my Vic-20, C-64, and my Three Amigos, errr..... Amigas. They sell a lot of electronics. Too bad C= died before they could set up a marketing agreement with QVC........ Unfortunately, you don't win anything except the warm, fuzzy feeling that you know a lot of relatively useless minutiae. Congratulations!!! > GMT Microelectronics. http://www.gmtme.com > > What do I win?? > > ========================== > Richard A. Cini, Jr. > Congress Financial Corporation > 1133 Avenue of the Americas > 30th Floor > New York, NY 10036 > (212) 545-4402 > (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Braun [mailto:nerdware@laidbak.com] > Sent: Monday, August 28, 2000 10:01 PM > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: Re: Brochure re: CSG liquidation > > > A little C= trivia on the subject -- after C= went belly-up and the > plant was vacated, what then-fledgling but now-very famous and > extremely successful company bought the Westchester facility to > start it's empire? > > Paul > > > > I don't know if anyone saw this on comp.sys.cbm, but it's an > > > interesting brochure. It's the auction notice brochure from 1994 for > > > the Commodore Semiconductor Group. I work for the asset-based > > > financing division of the sixth-largest bank in the US, and we've used > > > Ross-Dove for our auctions and liquidations. It's a nice brochure with > > > detailed pictures. > > > > > > Sad, none the less, but a great brochure. > > > > > > http://archive.dovebid.com/company/archive/commodore.htm > > > > Yeah, I downloaded all the images. Very informative and a rare look into > > what MOS Technology became. > > > > -- > > ----------------------------- personal page: > > http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * > > ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu > > -- Wagner's music is better than it sounds. -- Mark Twain > > --------------------- > > > > > > > > > Paul Braun WD9GCO > Cygnus Productions > nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com > Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Aug 29 18:27:05 2000 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: trs-80, tcp-ip Message-ID: <200008292327.RAA11074@calico.litterbox.com> Was there ever a tcp-ip stack that ran on a TRS-80 model 100? If so, does anyone know where to get such a thing? Man, I get the wierdest questions... -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Tue Aug 29 18:46:12 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: Brochure re: CSG liquidation In-Reply-To: <200008292309.e7TN9BQ29365@grover.winsite.com> from Paul Braun at "Aug 29, 0 06:09:04 pm" Message-ID: <200008292346.QAA14958@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I wasn't aware of that one.... were they the ones that bought the > chip factory? Yup. Good thing for us Red Commies; GMT is none other than former CSG management and engineers. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- I can't complain, but sometimes I still do. -- Joe Walsh ------------------- From g at kurico.com Tue Aug 29 18:50:51 2000 From: g at kurico.com (George Currie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: 220v and PDP 11 cards Message-ID: <39AC060B.31005.4CDE082@localhost> This is for those folks out there that have the big iron, specifically, anything that uses 220v. If your machine is at home, and assuming you don't have a seperate dedicated 220v line, what are you using to power your machines? Do you tap into the oven/washer outlet? Just how high did your electric bill increase by? Any other suggestions? I recently picked up a box full of PDP 11 cards. Is there a site that actually describes what the cards do (vs simply a terse description of what the card is e.g. DR 11-C Interface). There were also some blue cards from a company called MDB (DR11C, 11W?, MLSI DRV11C, etc). What type of boards were these? And lastly. Several of the above boards are in sad shape. They were left outside so now there pretty dirty (as in literally having dirt crusted on them, along with leaves and dead/dried critters), any suggestions on how to clean them up without ruining them. Thanks George From elvey at hal.com Tue Aug 29 19:10:37 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: 220v and PDP 11 cards In-Reply-To: <39AC060B.31005.4CDE082@localhost> Message-ID: <200008300010.RAA20939@civic.hal.com> "George Currie" wrote: > > And lastly. Several of the above boards are in sad shape. They > were left outside so now there pretty dirty (as in literally having dirt > crusted on them, along with leaves and dead/dried critters), any > suggestions on how to clean them up without ruining them. Hi Wash them in soap and water. It is Ok to use a brush to loosen hard stuff. Rinse in clean water and shake off or use a air hose to remove as much water as you can. Place in an oven, set for 110F. Make sure that there is no line of sight path to electric heaters. Bake for several hours and allow to cool slowly. Avoid getting water in coils and switches if you can. It generally doesn't hurt most electronic components. Dwight From elvey at hal.com Tue Aug 29 19:12:56 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS-100 boot disk/docs? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200008300012.RAA20946@civic.hal.com> Vintage Computer Festival wrote: > > Does anyone have the boot disk and/or docs for the Intel iPDS-100? It's a > portable (like the Osborn) circa 1982, 8085-based (it actually has three > 8085's inside). > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and > Danger > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! Hi Sam If it boots isis disk, I may have some that work ( 8 inch ). I'm not sure if I have single density or M2FM. I haven't had time to fiddle with the load of Intel stuff I got. Dwight From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Aug 29 19:16:50 2000 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: PDP11 (in a OBA11-VA) available, Austin, TX Message-ID: <20000829191650.U6913@mrbill.net> I've got a PDP-11/03 system (configured with RX01 controller, RAM card, and serial terminal interface) available in Austin, Texas (for sale). For local buyers, I've also got the VT102 terminal (complete with original owner's / programming manual) and dual RX01-compatible 8" floppy drive unit as well (these are too heavy/bulky to ship). Pics of the system at http://www.pdp11.org/pics. If interested, mail me at mrbill@mrbill.net to make an offer or negotiate. I'm not trying to make a profit off of this, just convert it into cash to help pay bills this month (I'll pick up another system a couple months from now...) I've also got a VAXstation 4000-VLC with 16mb available. Bill (BTW - Dave McG - your -11 cards are going out in the mail this Friday) -- +-------------------\ /-----------------+ | Bill Bradford | www.sunhelp.org | | mrbill@mrbill.net | www.decvax.org | | Austin, Texas USA | www.pdp11.org | +-------------------/ \-----------------+ From BRISCH at MN.USWEST.NET Tue Aug 29 19:27:03 2000 From: BRISCH at MN.USWEST.NET (BRISCH@MN.USWEST.NET) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #354 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000829192703.00aa15c0@mail.mn.uswest.net> Please remove (stop subscription) >Return-Path: >Delivered-To: brisch@mail-mpls.uswest.net >Received: (qmail 19789 invoked by uid 0); 28 Aug 2000 09:44:14 -0000 >Received: from mail3.uswest.net (204.147.80.19) > by mplspop2.mpls.uswest.net with SMTP; 28 Aug 2000 09:44:14 -0000 >Received: (qmail 1852 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2000 09:44:13 -0000 >Received: from opal.tseinc.com (209.83.134.16) > by mail3.uswest.net with SMTP; 28 Aug 2000 09:44:13 -0000 >Received: (from majordom@localhost) > by opal.tseinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA03774 > for classiccmp-classiccmp-org-digest-outgoing; Mon, 28 Aug 2000 04:41:35 -0500 (CDT) > (envelope-from owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org) >Errors-To: owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 04:41:35 -0500 (CDT) >Message-Id: <200008280941.EAA03774@opal.tseinc.com> >From: "classiccmp-digest" >Sender: owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org >To: classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org >X-Authentication-Warning: opal.tseinc.com: majordom set sender to owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org using -f >Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #354 >Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >Precedence: bulk >Status: U >X-UIDL: 967455854.19795.mplspop2.mpls.uswest.net > > >classiccmp-digest Monday, August 28 2000 Volume 01 : Number 354 > > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 19:23:06 -0700 (PDT) >From: Cameron Kaiser >Subject: Re: CP/M for HP 87? > >> on the subject of TI calcs... OT too! >> >> I see TI86s and 83s are around. Are any of these Z80 powered? > >I'm pretty sure the 85s are, at least. Never opened mine up, though. > >- -- >- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- > Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu >- -- An apple every eight hours will keep three doctors away. ------------------- > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 20:41:02 +0930 >From: "Geoff Roberts" >Subject: Re: looking for teletype KSR-43 ribbons > >- ----- Original Message ----- >From: Don Maslin >To: >Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2000 6:38 AM >Subject: Re: looking for teletype KSR-43 ribbons > > >> >> >> On Fri, 25 Aug 2000, Lawrence LeMay wrote: >> >> > >> > http://www.partsalliance.com/ne/ribbons.htm >> > >> > A package of 6 Teletype 43/45 ribbons is $16.62, or $20.28 including >tax. >> > Of course, this site is in Austrailia... >> >> Wow! A 22% tax! Shipping not included I presume. > >That would be wrong, we went to a retail price based GST of 10% on 1 July >from a wholesale price sales tax of 22%. >It's likely the site has not been updated yet. > >I can get these through a local office machine supplier for around $8 ea >incl tax. They are still quite easy to get. > >Cheers > >Geoff Roberts >Computer Systems Manager >Saint Mark's College >Port Pirie, South Australia, >geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 11:41:43 -0400 (EDT) >From: John Lawson >Subject: New Email address > > Hello Collecting friends. > > I am currently on 'inactive' status as far as classic computer >collecting goes, so my participation on the List has been mostly in R/O >mode. > > My old (+7 years!) ISP has seen fit to discontinue all it's Unix Shell >accounts effective Sept 30 of this year. I have therefore signed up with >another old-line ISP, panix.com in New York. > > Should any of you on the list be considering changing your ISP for any >reason, especially if you are primarily a telnet user.. I can highly >recomend them. Their customer service has been a) excellent and >b) proactive; a state of affairs unheard-of in my years on the Net. > > > Since I am now living and working in Southern India, I have bestowed my >collection en masse to a couple of Listmembers and will not be actively >pursuing the hobby for a year or two. Getting a full-blown 11/44 system >thru checked baggage is one thing, but dealing with Indian customs..... > > ;) > > > I would like to take this small opportunity to publicly thank each and >everyone of you one the List who help to preserve these old beasts, and >also I would like to thank Allison, Megan, Tim, Sellam, Bruce, Marvin, >Tony Duell, Eric, Don Maslin, Hans Franke, Eliot Moore, and all the rest >who took time and effort to help me unravel DEC as it was meant to be. > > I have unsubbed the netcom account and subscribed at the panix addrr, >and I'll continue to monitor the list, although it is doubtful I'll be >posting much. I have found one cache of more-than-ten-year-old stuff, >mostly Commie and Atari. I'll post more when I have a chance to check it >out. Don't get too excited. Buyer pays shipping... > > > Cheers > >John > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 13:21:00 -0700 (PDT) >From: Aaron Nabil >Subject: Re: looking for teletype KSR-43 ribbons > >On Sun, 27 Aug 2000, Geoff Roberts wrote: >> . . . >> I can get these through a local office machine supplier for around $8 ea >> incl tax. They are still quite easy to get. > >I was hoping someone would have a stash, yes, they are still easy to >order, which I ended up doing. > >If you don't mind clones, you can get a Intec (not crap) RI1039E from >http://www.theverylastword.com/ribbons.htm for about $5/ea, or if you >want the genuine article order a AT&T 127815 for about $8/ea from >10kplus.com like I did yesterday. > >- -- >Aaron Nabil > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 20:34:01 -0500 >From: Joe >Subject: Re: CP/M for HP 87? > >Stan, > > I have the ROM but I've never tried to use it. I don't have the >instructions for it so I don't know much about it. I have CPM for the HP >120 and I'm hoping that it will work with the ROM but I don't know if it >will or not. > > Joe > >At 04:34 PM 8/26/00 -0700, you wrote: >>Hi, >> >>I'm looking for CP/M software for an HP 87 with >>an HP 82900A CP/M cartridge! >> >>Any pointers/help appreciatd! >> >>thanks, >> >>Stan >> >>Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com >>www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler >> > >------------------------------ > >Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:25:59 -0400 >From: Gene Ehrich >Subject: Looking for Thinkpad 500 Battery > >The title says it all. > >New, used or rebuild. > > > >================================= >Gene Ehrich >gene@ehrich.com >gehrich@tampabay.rr.com > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 05:38:59 EDT >From: Jgzabol@aol.com >Subject: asgnpart.com > >Hello, > >would anyone know where I could find the MS-DOS progam asgnpart.com, >which was part of some of the versions 3.x and 4.x, but not of all these >versions. >None of the versions in my possession have it, unfortunately, and some >application I want to run has to have it. > >Thanks and regards >John G. Zabolitzky > >------------------------------ > >End of classiccmp-digest V1 #354 >******************************** > > > From marvin at rain.org Tue Aug 29 19:44:05 2000 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: Recycle that old computer! References: Message-ID: <39AC58D5.DE10EC3F@rain.org> Wow, I haven't seen so much disinformation in one article in a long time. If ignorance is bliss, this reporter must be in heaven! "Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)" wrote: > > http://www.usatoday.com/usatonline/20000829/2591574s.htm From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Aug 29 20:21:00 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > > Dr. Pepper. Flowing freely. By the gallon. Mr. Pibb even better. > Classic Coke and Cherry Coke... In grand quantities! Doesn't anyone drink Jolt anymore? From cfandt at netsync.net Tue Aug 29 21:05:26 2000 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: OT: Philips "Easy-Connect" modem In-Reply-To: <001201c011bf$ac004b20$72483cd1@winbook> Message-ID: <4.1.20000829213207.00b6ea50@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 07:47 AM 8/29/00 -0600, Richard Erlacher said something like: > > I know this isn't what we're here to discuss, but I was wondering if anybody > uses or has experience with a Philips 56K-flex "EasyConnect" modem. > > The woman who lives next-door to my Mom, and has for the past 40+ years is a > virtual shut-in due to her dependence on oxygen due to her advanced emphysema > from years of smoking, an her computer is an important source of outlet and > outside-world contact for her. I recently replaced her hard-disk for her, > having installed this entire system, bit-by-bit, over a number of years, and > it has worked remarkably well until recently. I installed her hard disk and > reinstalled the Windows95 (no update to '98 because the OSR-2 version of '95 > worked so satisfactorily for her) and everything works beautifully EXCEPT the > MODEM. > > This model is a Plug-N-Play modem, and slid in effortlessly when I first set > it up for her, but her motherboard is not a plug-n-play type of board. It > doesn't attempt to go out and manipulate the devices that are out there in > order to configure the interrupts and port locations. I'm curious whether > anyone has had to solve this sort of problem before and has a solution. I've > tried everything I could think of and have had no luck at all. Any > reasonable suggestions are welcome. > > thanks, > > Dick > Dick, Here's what I think based on very similar experience a couple months back: My hard disk started to die. Loosing boot sector code, reinstalling windoze95, dying a short time later, etc. Scandisk showing more and more failing clusters. You know the story . . . I bought a new disk and put it in. Everything's happy. Installed several applications first before my office-related stuff, such as: Eudora, Netscape, and one or two more apps that I constantly use. Fine for them. Startup and run well. Now, when I tried to setup the modem (USRobotics 56k Winmodem, it's plug-n-pray, and had always had worked well before the disk crashes) the dialer could not find the modem. "What the . . .??" To shorten the story, because from here on there had been a LOT of cussin' and fiddling with stuff -even reformatting and reinstalling w95 in somewhat varied ways over a week or so of time- to try to figure out why a previously working modem suddenly won't work, I'll just get to my point. I found that if I shut down and _remove_ the modem and then install windoze 95 on a _clean_, freshly formatted disk and then shut down and re-install the modem, _then_ the parts of w95 that need to will see the modem (remember, it's a plug-n-pray modem that I have -like you'd said your friend's was). My m'board is supposed to be "Plug-n-Play" but in this case there are probably subtle things that made it mostly plug-n-pray for sure. Although I have some experience with installing PNP hardware onto w95/98 systems, it seems to me that while installing the w95 onto a previously hardware configured box, the PNP majic of the system will not correctly detect and install the PNP hardware into the new system. Maybe this is old hat to some of you that had come against this problem, but it's new to me as I'm not one to buy lots of hardware stuff to play with and try out and otherwise tinker with my machines. The machines are tools for me and I put my money resources into s/w tools I need or my old radio collection (as Hans F. and Wm. Donzelli can attest ;) BTW, I'm using w95 OSR-2 also. 8-24-96 is the majority of file dates on the distribution. This is just a suggestion that you may have run into the same type of PNP conflict, which you may have guessed already, and an offer of a possible solution. Good luck! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000829/f37342f2/attachment.html From rcini at optonline.net Tue Aug 29 21:09:36 2000 From: rcini at optonline.net (Richard A. Cini, Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: CGS/Commodore bankruptcy (was RE: Brochure re: CSG liquidation) In-Reply-To: <39ABB6AB.14842.133E5B66@localhost> Message-ID: Hans: I did some investigation of this several years ago on this topic exactly. I was able to put my hands on the motion to approve the sale of the assets of CEL and CBM. Excerpting from the court filing, as follows: ---------------------- UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK Notice of hearing to appeove sale of assets and solicitation of higher or better offers. ... PLEASE TAKE FURTHER NOTICE THAT the sale to Escom is pursuant to a contract (the "Contract") dated March 13, 1995 providing for the conveyance of specified assets (collectively referred to here in as the "assets"), including the right, title and interest of the Commodore Entities to substantially all of their intellectual property, including technology, trademarks (including Commodore's logo and the names "Amiga" and "Commodore"), patents, copyrights, and know-how, and tooling, inventory, components, spare parts, microchips, and microchip test and design equipment, for a gross price of approximately $5 million in cash. The technology being offered for sale includes all technology and patents developed in connection with Commodore's products, including the Amiga 1200, the Amiga 4000, and the Amiga CD32. {end quote} -------------------- The auction was to take place on April 20, 1995. As I recall, Escom did purchase all of the 8-bit technology, including all of the Amiga stuff, and then promptly filed for insolvency on July 15, 1996. Then, supposedly all of the same assets were sold to Gateway, which then sold the Amiga goodies to Amiga, Inc. (Snoqualmie, WA). I would suspect that the 8-bit technology went with it, although I can't confirm it. If someone knows anyone in the know at Gateway or Amiga, that would be a good way to find out. However, when reading CBM's reorganization plan (which obviously was never delcared effective; the company was ultimately liquidated), it specifically mentions the desire of the liquidators of CIL and CEL to sell all of the intellectual property, know-how, tooling, and inventory, including that of the C64 and Amiga products. The reorganization plan also indicated that CBM had $150 million of unsecured trade claims, including $95 million to various other Commodore entities. More information. As of an early-1997 D&B report, the officers of GMT Microelectronics (purchaser of the CSG real property and equipment in the auction) included Dennis Peasenell (CHB), James Oerth (CTO), Anthonw Wilson (VP of Facilities), George Giansanti (President), Thomas Aiken (CFO) and Alan Sabanosh (VP of Manufacturing). GMT purchased the Norristown facility on September 2, 1994 (closing on January 6, 1995) for $4.3 million in cash. This acquisition was to include some personal property (equipment and raw materials and finished goods on hand, I would suspect). Rich Pseudo-attorney -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke [mailto:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de] Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 7:12 AM To: Richard A. Cini, Jr. Subject: Re: Brochure re: CSG liquidation Hallo Rich, > I don't know if anyone saw this on comp.sys.cbm, but it's an interesting > brochure. It's the auction notice brochure from 1994 for the Commodore > Semiconductor Group. I work for the asset-based financing division of the > sixth-largest bank in the US, and we've used Ross-Dove for our auctions and > liquidations. It's a nice brochure with detailed pictures. In fact, I'm still searching for some informations. for example who owns the IP of CSG ? Like the 6510 or 6530 cips - also who owns the IP for Commodore programm code, like the 6530 ROM content ? Maybe you got any idea ? Back in the final Commodore auction in NYC, these rights have not been mentioned. the only alike IP part has been the Amiga lot. Seams as if the ownership has been 'lost'. > Sad, none the less, but a great brochure. > http://archive.dovebid.com/company/archive/commodore.htm Jep, great historic material. Thank you Servus Hans -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From dburrows at netpath.net Tue Aug 29 21:51:39 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: 220v and PDP 11 cards Message-ID: <020901c0122d$62ef1d80$a652e780@L166> Subject: 220v and PDP 11 cards >This is for those folks out there that have the big iron, specifically, >anything that uses 220v. If your machine is at home, and >assuming you don't have a seperate dedicated 220v line, what are >you using to power your machines? Do you tap into the >oven/washer outlet? Just how high did your electric bill increase >by? Any other suggestions? For all of the PDP11 chassis I can think of off hand they can be configured for 120 or 240 volt. I frequently run multiple PDP11 test systems in the office. I did cheat and dropped a 100A panel behind the racks. This was cheaper and easier than running numerous 30A drops with L5-30 twistlocks. One thing you will need to figure on is air conditioning load. It is amazing how much heat they can generate. This will vary widely on what system and disks you have. Warning RA8x drives generate a LOT of heat and suck a lot of power. Caveat. I support a fair number of commercial end users. My office is supplied with a 200A service subfed off the house 400A service. >DRV11C, etc). What type of boards were these? You need to find one of the PDP11 interfaces manuals. There were several and what they covered varied with dates published and Unibus vs. Qbus. My stock of these currently is low. I have given several spare copies to various list members. Dan From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 29 20:59:32 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: OT: Re: VCF Soft Drink Requests In-Reply-To: <004f01c011fe$d85999d0$3c37d986@fauradon.beckman.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, FBA wrote: > Looking for sex in a pile of mimes... HAHAHAHA!! I love it! Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Tue Aug 29 21:06:39 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: Intel iPDS-100 boot disk/docs? In-Reply-To: <200008300012.RAA20946@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, Dwight Elvey wrote: > If it boots isis disk, I may have some that work ( 8 inch ). > I'm not sure if I have single density or M2FM. I haven't > had time to fiddle with the load of Intel stuff I got. Hey Dwight. This machine has a 5.25" drive. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Tue Aug 29 22:15:22 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: OT: Philips "Easy-Connect" modem Message-ID: <000201c01231$855d36f0$ec0a9a8d@ajp166> >I found that if I shut down and _remove_ the modem and then install windoze 95 >on a _clean_, freshly formatted disk and then shut down and re-install the >modem, _then_ the parts of w95 that need to will see the modem (remember, it's >a plug-n-pray modem that I have -like you'd said your friend's was). My m'board >is supposed to be "Plug-n-Play" but in this case there are probably subtle >things that made it mostly plug-n-pray for sure. Yes there are. To get plug and pray to reset you need to enable the reset in the bios. the next power up it will enumerate the modem. two caveats... not all winmodems (HSP) work in all systems. And if the BIOS is not P&P you may have to go into the control Pannel | system and actually tweek the driver to point at every possible address the modem can be at (less than a dozen). Usually it W95 messes up and puts the wrong stuff at the wrong IRQ and this is worse when IRQs are near all full! I know I do this EVERY day on 5x86/133 through P166 systems that are OLD. Also keep in mond that the autoprobe function of the system can and does fail to find stuff or if it has the worng IRQ/Address misidentifes it. >Although I have some experience with installing PNP hardware onto w95/98 >systems, it seems to me that while installing the w95 onto a previously >hardware configured box, the PNP majic of the system will not correctly detect >and install the PNP hardware into the new system. Maybe this is old hat to some >of you that had come against this problem, but it's new to me as I'm not one to >buy lots of hardware stuff to play with and try out and otherwise tinker with >my machines. The machines are tools for me and I put my money resources into >s/w tools I need or my old radio collection (as Hans F. and Wm. Donzelli can >attest ;) It's fairly straightforward. I do this enough to be comfortable with it. Previously installed means no new disk or reinstall of the OS (unless it was to refresh a few files) as the OS stores all the setup in REGISTRY, INFs and DLLs. For those not timid at heart, the registry is very editable and can usually stand cleaning up. FYI the most common problem is that I find the P&P want to put NIC at 210 and IRQ3 or 5 with is often already commited to COM1 and LPT2. Manual setting of the OS (in the system pannel) is enough to fix that. BEWARE... W95 by default installs NETBUEI as the only protocal! You must make sure that the TCP/IP protocal is installed and also the adaptor (networking pannel). Then go to the DUN (DIAL UP NETWORKING) and set up the dial out. FYI: use MSDUN13 (from the MS site.) as the OSR2 DUN has problems arounf DHCP and some other junk. I usually install W95, then setup the networking, install MSDUN13 and then follow with layered products (err uhm applications). HINT: install MS internet explorer before netscape then make netscape the default if you prefer it. Also if you use MS Internet explorer/OutlookExpress Use 4.01SP2, it has fewer of the active-x and COMx controls and can be hardened more than the IE5 versions (they are very virus prone). Last item in is a ANTIvirus with currrent signatures, I lke SYMANTEC but MCAfee seems to work as well. In any case instal and enable it. >BTW, I'm using w95 OSR-2 also. 8-24-96 is the majority of file dates on the >distribution. Same here. Also known as 95B or 400.950. That was the last version unless you have 95C (I do) which is the OEM disti copy. Myself I've run 95, 98 and NT4/SP4/workstation and NT beats 9x hands down (except for games). It will give untuned Linux (caldara openlinux2.3) a goor run. NT like Linux is intimidating for the novice to install and setup. Done properly with known good drivers they all work. Keep in mind one thing, I HATE Micros~1! Allison From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Aug 29 22:26:55 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: 220v and PDP 11 cards In-Reply-To: <39AC060B.31005.4CDE082@localhost> from "George Currie" at Aug 29, 2000 06:50:51 PM Message-ID: <200008300326.UAA12473@shell1.aracnet.com> > I recently picked up a box full of PDP 11 cards. Is there a site that > actually describes what the cards do (vs simply a terse description > of what the card is e.g. DR 11-C Interface). There were also some > blue cards from a company called MDB (DR11C, 11W?, MLSI > DRV11C, etc). What type of boards were these? I think you might be able to find some of this off of http://www.vaxarchive.org Zane From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 29 22:29:46 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: OT: Philips "Easy-Connect" modem References: <4.1.20000829213207.00b6ea50@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <002901c01232$8c37b620$0500c0a8@winbook> It happens that this particular modem is the only remaining plug-n-pray card and, while most of these critters have some sort of driver that makes them assume some identity, this particular one doesn't. It does have a flash utility, but even that can't find the thing. Nonetheless, when I put the modem in a plug-n-play system it identifies itself, but the system can't find it sufficiently to identify it enough to install it. The install routine, unlike most, requires that one proceed only after the OS has announced recognition of the modem, at which point you're supposed to use the CD that comes with the modem. Unfortunately, though I've never had to use it before, it doesn't work to do the install now, because it can't find where the modem is. This system has been almost totally trouble-free, with the exception that, since the little old lady that uses it for web surfing and email hasn't learned how to avoid accumulating junk from the web, her disk space has gotten so low that the printer driver won't work any longer, so we replaced here 545 MB drive with a 13.6 GB one. Installing that was somewhat of a pain, but now that it's in place, it works great. If only one could get a modem that wasn't plug and play and didn't require a 22 GHz pentium to make it work. This box has a 160 MHz 5x86, which is just a sort-of Pentium-compatible '486. I've got dozens of these "out there" among the pro-bono clientele I've accumulated over the years and even though they're not the latest, fastest, etc, you'll have trouble prying the users' cold-dead fingers from around them. They really like them. I've found 300 MHz Pentium-equipped motherboards for $40 and not one of these folks wanted to swap 'em. These old things still have a couple of VLB slots along with a couple of ISA slots and 3 PCI. My mother has one too, and even she doesn't complain. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Christian Fandt To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 8:05 PM Subject: Re: OT: Philips "Easy-Connect" modem Upon the date 07:47 AM 8/29/00 -0600, Richard Erlacher said something like: I know this isn't what we're here to discuss, but I was wondering if anybody uses or has experience with a Philips 56K-flex "EasyConnect" modem. The woman who lives next-door to my Mom, and has for the past 40+ years is a virtual shut-in due to her dependence on oxygen due to her advanced emphysema from years of smoking, an her computer is an important source of outlet and outside-world contact for her. I recently replaced her hard-disk for her, having installed this entire system, bit-by-bit, over a number of years, and it has worked remarkably well until recently. I installed her hard disk and reinstalled the Windows95 (no update to '98 because the OSR-2 version of '95 worked so satisfactorily for her) and everything works beautifully EXCEPT the MODEM. This model is a Plug-N-Play modem, and slid in effortlessly when I first set it up for her, but her motherboard is not a plug-n-play type of board. It doesn't attempt to go out and manipulate the devices that are out there in order to configure the interrupts and port locations. I'm curious whether anyone has had to solve this sort of problem before and has a solution. I've tried everything I could think of and have had no luck at all. Any reasonable suggestions are welcome. thanks, Dick Dick, Here's what I think based on very similar experience a couple months back: My hard disk started to die. Loosing boot sector code, reinstalling windoze95, dying a short time later, etc. Scandisk showing more and more failing clusters. You know the story . . . I bought a new disk and put it in. Everything's happy. Installed several applications first before my office-related stuff, such as: Eudora, Netscape, and one or two more apps that I constantly use. Fine for them. Startup and run well. Now, when I tried to setup the modem (USRobotics 56k Winmodem, it's plug-n-pray, and had always had worked well before the disk crashes) the dialer could not find the modem. "What the . . .??" To shorten the story, because from here on there had been a LOT of cussin' and fiddling with stuff -even reformatting and reinstalling w95 in somewhat varied ways over a week or so of time- to try to figure out why a previously working modem suddenly won't work, I'll just get to my point. I found that if I shut down and _remove_ the modem and then install windoze 95 on a _clean_, freshly formatted disk and then shut down and re-install the modem, _then_ the parts of w95 that need to will see the modem (remember, it's a plug-n-pray modem that I have -like you'd said your friend's was). My m'board is supposed to be "Plug-n-Play" but in this case there are probably subtle things that made it mostly plug-n-pray for sure. Although I have some experience with installing PNP hardware onto w95/98 systems, it seems to me that while installing the w95 onto a previously hardware configured box, the PNP majic of the system will not correctly detect and install the PNP hardware into the new system. Maybe this is old hat to some of you that had come against this problem, but it's new to me as I'm not one to buy lots of hardware stuff to play with and try out and otherwise tinker with my machines. The machines are tools for me and I put my money resources into s/w tools I need or my old radio collection (as Hans F. and Wm. Donzelli can attest ;) BTW, I'm using w95 OSR-2 also. 8-24-96 is the majority of file dates on the distribution. This is just a suggestion that you may have run into the same type of PNP conflict, which you may have guessed already, and an offer of a possible solution. Good luck! Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000829/5b5e3cb9/attachment.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Aug 29 22:33:29 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: VAX/VMS V5.5-2 Memory Requirements Message-ID: <200008300333.UAA14561@shell1.aracnet.com> OK, this falls in the stupid question catagory. What are the minimum memory requirements for VMS V5.5? I'm in the process of resurecting my VAXstation II/RC and would for some idiotic reason like to leave it in the original configuration except for the HD (dead RD53). I just got done stuffing the VCB01 back in and noticed that what I thought was a 8MB RAM board is only a 2MB RAM board. Now here is the idiotic part, I'm threatening to run it in a 3MB RAM configuration, despite having some 4MB and 8MB RAM boards. As a result I'm wondering what VMS V5.5's RAM requirements are. Unfortunatly I've not got much in the line of V5.5 doc's so can't look it up. Zane From richard at idcomm.com Tue Aug 29 22:37:02 2000 From: richard at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: OT: Philips "Easy-Connect" modem References: <000201c01231$855d36f0$ec0a9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <003101c01233$90645360$0500c0a8@winbook> What drives me nusto here is that the thing has been in place for 2-1/2 years and worked perfectly right up to the point at which I swapped the hard disk. Then I finally installed the OS on a CLEAN partiton of 13.6 MB, using disk manager, and it just works beautifully . . . except for the modem, which it doesn't even see. SInce the BIOS doesn't support plug-n-pray, there's no reset to enable or any such. Nevertheless, if I could lay hands on another of the 3 VLB +3 ISA + 3 PCI motherboards like I recently had die off on me, I'd jump on the thing. These are the 5x86-133 version of that, though most of them run fine at 160. I've tried various speeds, but everything seems to work best at 160. I think the bus interface between the CPU and the two busses couple better at 160 than at 133, but I can't prove it. It's just there are things that seem to go twice as fast at 160 than at 133, and 133's plenty fast. thanx Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: ajp166 To: Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 9:15 PM Subject: Re: OT: Philips "Easy-Connect" modem > >I found that if I shut down and _remove_ the modem and then install > windoze 95 > >on a _clean_, freshly formatted disk and then shut down and re-install > the > >modem, _then_ the parts of w95 that need to will see the modem > (remember, it's > >a plug-n-pray modem that I have -like you'd said your friend's was). My > m'board > >is supposed to be "Plug-n-Play" but in this case there are probably > subtle > >things that made it mostly plug-n-pray for sure. > > > Yes there are. To get plug and pray to reset you need to enable the reset > in the bios. > the next power up it will enumerate the modem. > > two caveats... not all winmodems (HSP) work in all systems. And if the > BIOS > is not P&P you may have to go into the control Pannel | system and > actually tweek the > driver to point at every possible address the modem can be at (less than > a dozen). > Usually it W95 messes up and puts the wrong stuff at the wrong IRQ and > this is > worse when IRQs are near all full! > > I know I do this EVERY day on 5x86/133 through P166 systems that are OLD. > > Also keep in mond that the autoprobe function of the system can and does > fail to find stuff or if it has the worng IRQ/Address misidentifes it. > > >Although I have some experience with installing PNP hardware onto w95/98 > >systems, it seems to me that while installing the w95 onto a previously > >hardware configured box, the PNP majic of the system will not correctly > detect > >and install the PNP hardware into the new system. Maybe this is old hat > to some > >of you that had come against this problem, but it's new to me as I'm not > one to > >buy lots of hardware stuff to play with and try out and otherwise tinker > with > >my machines. The machines are tools for me and I put my money resources > into > >s/w tools I need or my old radio collection (as Hans F. and Wm. Donzelli > can > >attest ;) > > > It's fairly straightforward. I do this enough to be comfortable with it. > Previously > installed means no new disk or reinstall of the OS (unless it was to > refresh a > few files) as the OS stores all the setup in REGISTRY, INFs and DLLs. > > For those not timid at heart, the registry is very editable and can > usually stand > cleaning up. > > FYI the most common problem is that I find the P&P want to put NIC at 210 > and IRQ3 or 5 with is often already commited to COM1 and LPT2. Manual > setting of the OS (in the system pannel) is enough to fix that. > > BEWARE... W95 by default installs NETBUEI as the only protocal! You > must > make sure that the TCP/IP protocal is installed and also the adaptor > (networking pannel). Then go to the DUN (DIAL UP NETWORKING) and set > up the dial out. FYI: use MSDUN13 (from the MS site.) as the OSR2 DUN > has > problems arounf DHCP and some other junk. > > I usually install W95, then setup the networking, install MSDUN13 and > then > follow with layered products (err uhm applications). HINT: install MS > internet explorer > before netscape then make netscape the default if you prefer it. Also if > you use MS > Internet explorer/OutlookExpress Use 4.01SP2, it has fewer of the > active-x and COMx > controls and can be hardened more than the IE5 versions (they are very > virus prone). > Last item in is a ANTIvirus with currrent signatures, I lke SYMANTEC but > MCAfee > seems to work as well. In any case instal and enable it. > > >BTW, I'm using w95 OSR-2 also. 8-24-96 is the majority of file dates on > the > >distribution. > > > Same here. Also known as 95B or 400.950. That was the last version > unless you > have 95C (I do) which is the OEM disti copy. > > Myself I've run 95, 98 and NT4/SP4/workstation and NT beats 9x hands down > (except for games). It will give untuned Linux (caldara openlinux2.3) a > goor run. > NT like Linux is intimidating for the novice to install and setup. Done > properly > with known good drivers they all work. Keep in mind one thing, I HATE > Micros~1! > > > Allison > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Aug 29 23:59:17 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: DEC VR260 Monitor Problem Message-ID: <200008300459.VAA23770@shell1.aracnet.com> OK, maybe it doesn't matter how much RAM V5.5 takes, I'm starting to think that the VR260 is either sick or dead. Anyone have any suggestions for dealing with one? The only indication of output is on the middel 2/5th's of the screen, there is a strip across it. Playing with brightness and contrast doesn't seem to help any. More disturbing disconnecting the video cable doesn't seem to cause any change either. The only thing I'm sure about is that the VCB01, cable and VR260 all worked when I stuck them in storaage about 3 years ago. Anyone have any suggestions of things to look at? Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Aug 30 01:37:45 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: Zycad Mach 1000 simulation engine, socal In-Reply-To: <200008292309.e7TN9BQ29365@grover.winsite.com> References: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E318B@MAIL10> Message-ID: Today a bunch of stuff rolled into the salvage yard at UCI (UC Irvine in Calif). Perhaps of interest to somebody on the list was a big tower, maybe 5' high, Zycad Mach 1000 simulation engine. It appears intact, manuals, tapes, etc. but that won't last, next viewing date is Thursday. Maybe related I found a dozen or so Xylinx (sic) protoboards, size of a punch card half of it open, 2 digit display, couple buttons, some kind of serial looking connection, runs off a 9v battery, big socket in the middle with a square chip in it of the same name. Sorry to be doing this from memory, but it was a quick look, and the protoboards are still in my trunk. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Wed Aug 30 01:04:36 2000 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20000829230303.05382c30@agora.rdrop.com> At 06:21 PM 8/29/00, you wrote: > > > > Dr. Pepper. Flowing freely. By the gallon. Mr. Pibb even better. > > Classic Coke and Cherry Coke... In grand quantities! > >Doesn't anyone drink Jolt anymore? Nah... too modern! Coke and cold (leftover) pizza. A true hacker classic! Add some twinkies for that extra 'get yer morning started' boost. B^} -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From jate at uwasa.fi Wed Aug 30 01:20:34 2000 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: Recognize a mystery Nixdorf machine ? Message-ID: <20000830092033.C2754@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Hello all! First one to recognize this mystery Nixdorf computer gets ten points and a papukaijamerkki. Any additional information would be appreciated! http://www.tec.puv.fi/~s99137/nixdorf.html I've had it lying around for many years now and I'd finally like to know what the heck it is:) (besides being a computer, that is) TIA, -- Jarkko Teppo jate@uwasa.fi From jate at uwasa.fi Wed Aug 30 01:28:57 2000 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: TI Silent 700 help In-Reply-To: ; from cisin@xenosoft.com on Thu, Aug 24, 2000 at 09:30:42AM -0700 References: <20000824090429.A2875@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: <20000830092857.D2754@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> On Thu, Aug 24, 2000 at 09:30:42AM -0700, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > I no longer have access to one, nor the manuals. > But I MIGHT still have some RS232 cables for it. > The one that I had, the loopback connected the RS232 compatible terminal > with the RS232 compatible modem. There was a jumper inside that > eliminated the need for the loopback plug, but I used it as a printer, and > used the modem with a TRS-80. That required some special cables to bring > the terminal signals and the modem signals out to DB25s. I hacked up a cable to use it as a terminal to an HP 9000/380, the pin-outs had been posted here earlier (stupid me). Next thing to do is get the acoustic modem to work, maybe like this: Acoustic modem 680 Ohm 1/2 W + 12V - Zyxel --------------/\/\/\----------|'|'|'|'--------- Red ----------------------------------------------- Green (Stolen from www.epanorama.net) (Simulated line, normal telephones are at least twice as expensive than cell-phones around here) I just need to whack the Zyxel a bit to start handshaking blind. -- Jarkko Teppo jate@uwasa.fi From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Wed Aug 30 02:25:11 2000 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: DEC VR260 Monitor Problem References: <200008300459.VAA23770@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <017c01c01253$7005fcc0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 2:29 PM Subject: DEC VR260 Monitor Problem > The only indication of output is on the middel 2/5th's of > the screen, there is a strip across it. Playing with brightness and > contrast doesn't seem to help any. More disturbing disconnecting the video > cable doesn't seem to cause any change either. Partial vertical collapse. For a start anyway. Not familiar with the circuit, but likely culprits are electrolytic capacitors in the vertical output stage, or possibly the vertical output transistors themselves. > The only thing I'm sure about is that the VCB01, cable and VR260 all worked > when I stuck them in storaage about 3 years ago. Sounds like dried up caps. Id the vertical stage, and change all the electrolytics in the area. cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@tell.net.au ICQ: 1970476 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Aug 30 04:15:12 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse In-Reply-To: <20000830092033.C2754@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: Digging in a huge tangle of wires today I found an odd looking Honeywell mouse. Instead of a ball, it has two wheels on the bottom angled so that one turns on x axis and the other y axis movements. Otherwise it looks like an old PC serial mouse, is it? From fauradon at mn.mediaone.net Wed Aug 30 05:38:15 2000 From: fauradon at mn.mediaone.net (Sue & Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: OT: Re: VCF Soft Drink Requests References: Message-ID: <001101c0126e$67b9b460$0264a8c0@mediaone.net> It just popped up in my mind one day and now every time I read your sig I think aboout it. I just had to share. Francois ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sellam Ismail" To: Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2000 8:59 PM Subject: Re: OT: Re: VCF Soft Drink Requests > On Tue, 29 Aug 2000, FBA wrote: > > > Looking for sex in a pile of mimes... > > HAHAHAHA!! I love it! > > Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Aug 30 06:38:25 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: Recognize a mystery Nixdorf machine ? In-Reply-To: <20000830092033.C2754@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: <39AD0E51.4685.C8FC64@localhost> > First one to recognize this mystery Nixdorf computer gets > ten points and a papukaijamerkki. > Any additional information would be appreciated! > http://www.tec.puv.fi/~s99137/nixdorf.html > I've had it lying around for many years now and I'd finally like > to know what the heck it is:) (besides being a computer, that is) Well, this is a Nixdorf 886x system (maybe a 8870, but I don't think so). More specific it seams to be an BNC4 system as used in banking environment BNC stands for Banking Network Computer - these have been designd to solve communication issues within the NCN Architecture (Nixdorf Communication Network). These machines have been build from the early 80s until two or three years ago (development lasted until 1995). Your machine shows an typical BNC structure Upper Row: Cassette Tape Drive Two Disk Drives Lower Row: Power Supply UPS CPU 3 Leitungscontroller (Linecontrolers?) Diskcontroller. I assume the Leitungscontroller have been used for X.25 connections (Still _way_ common in financial instalations). More Details are only available when you look at the various tags along the boards So, where do I have to pick up my papukaijammerki ? And even more important, do I get a washing machine for these 10 points ? Servus Hans -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Aug 30 07:21:51 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: My Interpro 2430 Works now ! In-Reply-To: <02a501c00e22$898d7540$030101ac@boll.casema.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Aug 2000 01:25:03 +0200 Sipke de Wal wrote: > Since about a month I am the proud owner of an Interpro 2430 with a > Kryptonite C400 ClipperCPU . It's a fully working system with a > 21" Colordisplay, 32Mb RAM, 400MB SCSI HD, Ethernet, Floppy > and a double framebuffer. Tonight I got the beast up and running and > circumvented the root password. Yoooopiiii > > But I have no manuals, no CD, or other valuable information. I acquired a Clipper manual just yesterday, along with much other assorted miscellaneous stuff (including a High Level Hardware Orion microprogramming manual). It's just a manual for the Clipper CPU, I think. -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk Wed Aug 30 07:24:18 2000 From: John.Honniball at uwe.ac.uk (John Honniball) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:00 2005 Subject: 220v and PDP 11 cards In-Reply-To: <39AC060B.31005.4CDE082@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 29 Aug 2000 18:50:51 -0500 George Currie wrote: > This is for those folks out there that have the big iron, specifically, > anything that uses 220v. Big Iron? All my machines, even the Sinclairs, run off 220V... > If your machine is at home, and > assuming you don't have a seperate dedicated 220v line, what are > you using to power your machines? Do you tap into the > oven/washer outlet? Just how high did your electric bill increase > by? Any other suggestions? Move to Europe? :-) :-) -- John Honniball Email: John.Honniball@uwe.ac.uk University of the West of England From BRISCH at MN.USWEST.NET Wed Aug 30 08:38:58 2000 From: BRISCH at MN.USWEST.NET (BRISCH@MN.USWEST.NET) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: failure notice Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000830083858.00a22430@mail.mn.uswest.net> >Return-Path: <> >Delivered-To: brisch@mail-mpls.uswest.net >Received: (qmail 38788 invoked by uid 0); 30 Aug 2000 13:43:58 -0000 >Received: from mail6.uswest.net (204.147.80.24) > by mplspop3.mpls.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2000 13:43:58 -0000 >Received: (qmail 4691 invoked by alias); 30 Aug 2000 13:43:58 -0000 >Delivered-To: BRISCH@uswest.net >Received: (qmail 4687 invoked for bounce); 30 Aug 2000 13:43:58 -0000 >Date: 30 Aug 2000 13:43:58 -0000 >From: MAILER-DAEMON@mail6.uswest.net >To: BRISCH@uswest.net >Subject: failure notice >Status: U >X-UIDL: 967643038.38794.mplspop3.mpls.uswest.net > >Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mail6.uswest.net. >I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. >This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. > >: >Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1) > >--- Below this line is a copy of the message. > >Return-Path: >Received: (qmail 4682 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2000 13:43:58 -0000 >Received: from mplspop1.mpls.uswest.net (204.147.80.3) > by mail6.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2000 13:43:58 -0000 >Received: (qmail 17367 invoked by alias); 30 Aug 2000 13:43:53 -0000 >Delivered-To: fixup-owner-classiccmp.org@fixme >Received: (qmail 17362 invoked by uid 0); 30 Aug 2000 13:43:52 -0000 >Received: from zdialup204.mpls.uswest.net (HELO sysnt4intr) (216.160.11.205) > by mplspop1.mpls.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2000 13:43:52 -0000 >Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:35:43 -0500 >Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000830083543.00a24c40@mail.mn.uswest.net> >From: BRISCH@uswest.net >To: owner-classiccmp.org >X-Sender: brisch@mail.mn.uswest.net >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) >Subject: Returned mail: User unknown >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>Return-Path: <> >>Delivered-To: brisch@mail-mpls.uswest.net >>Received: (qmail 2124 invoked by uid 0); 30 Aug 2000 13:05:03 -0000 >>Received: from mail2.uswest.net (204.147.80.18) >> by mplspop2.mpls.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2000 13:05:03 -0000 >>Received: (qmail 5694 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2000 13:05:03 -0000 >>Received: from opal.tseinc.com (209.83.134.16) >> by mail2.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2000 13:05:03 -0000 >>Received: from localhost (localhost) >> by opal.tseinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with internal id IAA40788; >> Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:05:02 -0500 (CDT) >> (envelope-from MAILER-DAEMON) >>Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:05:02 -0500 (CDT) >>Message-Id: <200008301305.IAA40788@opal.tseinc.com> >>From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" >>To: BRISCH@uswest.net >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Status: U >>X-UIDL: 967640704.2136.mplspop2.mpls.uswest.net >>Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; >> boundary="IAA40788.967640702/opal.tseinc.com" >>Subject: Returned mail: User unknown >>Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) >> >>The original message was received at Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:05:01 -0500 (CDT) >>from mplspop1.mpls.uswest.net [204.147.80.3] >> >> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- >> >> (expanded from: ) >> >> ----- Transcript of session follows ----- >>... while talking to jade.tseinc.com.: >>>>> RCPT To: >><<< 550 ... User >unknown >>550 ... User unknown >>Reporting-MTA: dns; opal.tseinc.com >>Received-From-MTA: DNS; mplspop1.mpls.uswest.net >>Arrival-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:05:01 -0500 (CDT) >> >>Final-Recipient: RFC822; >>X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; >owner-classiccmp-classiccmp-org-digest@jade.tseinc.com >>Action: failed >>Status: 5.1.1 >>Remote-MTA: DNS; jade.tseinc.com >>Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 >... User unknown >>Last-Attempt-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:05:01 -0500 (CDT) >>Return-Path: >>Received: from mplspop1.mpls.uswest.net (mplspop1.mpls.uswest.net >[204.147.80.3]) >> by opal.tseinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA40786 >> for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:05:01 >-0500 (CDT) >> (envelope-from BRISCH@MN.USWEST.NET) >>From: BRISCH@MN.USWEST.NET >>Received: (qmail 11540 invoked by alias); 30 Aug 2000 13:04:31 -0000 >>Delivered-To: fixup-owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org@fixme >>Received: (qmail 11520 invoked by uid 0); 30 Aug 2000 13:04:30 -0000 >>Received: from dialupd148.mpls.uswest.net (HELO sysnt4intr) (207.225.143.148) >> by mplspop1.mpls.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2000 13:04:30 -0000 >>Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000830075620.00aa5100@mail.mn.uswest.net> >>X-Sender: brisch@mail.mn.uswest.net >>X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) >>Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 07:56:20 -0500 >>To: owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org >>Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #356 >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> >>remove, delete stop get me off this list >> >>>Return-Path: >>>Delivered-To: brisch@mail-mpls.uswest.net >>>Received: (qmail 89075 invoked by uid 0); 30 Aug 2000 11:46:14 -0000 >>>Received: from mail9.uswest.net (204.147.80.27) >>> by mail.mpls.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2000 11:46:14 -0000 >>>Received: (qmail 76541 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2000 11:46:13 -0000 >>>Received: from opal.tseinc.com (209.83.134.16) >>> by mail9.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2000 11:46:13 -0000 >>>Received: (from majordom@localhost) >>> by opal.tseinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA39901 >>> for classiccmp-classiccmp-org-digest-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 06:41:06 >>-0500 (CDT) >>> (envelope-from owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org) >>>Errors-To: owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org >>>Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 06:41:06 -0500 (CDT) >>>Message-Id: <200008301141.GAA39901@opal.tseinc.com> >>>From: "classiccmp-digest" >>>Sender: owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org >>>To: classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org >>>X-Authentication-Warning: opal.tseinc.com: majordom set sender to >>owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org using -f >>>Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #356 >>>Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >>>Precedence: bulk >>>Status: U >>>X-UIDL: 967635975.89086.96574.mplspop5.mpls.uswest.net >>> >>> >>>classiccmp-digest Wednesday, August 30 2000 Volume 01 : Number 356 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:30:08 +0100 >>>From: Adrian Graham >>>Subject: RE: large collection of vintage machines on ebay >>> >>>They *are* taking over my computer room and garage though :) >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] >>>> Sent: 26 August 2000 18:01 >>>> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >>>> Subject: Re: large collection of vintage machines on ebay >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>WARNING: The remainder of this message has not been transferred. >>>The estimated size of this message is 96642 bytes. >>>Click on the server retrieve icon above and check mail again to get the >>whole thing. If the server retrieve icon is not showing, then this message >>is no longer on the server. >>> >> > > From BRISCH at MN.USWEST.NET Wed Aug 30 08:40:38 2000 From: BRISCH at MN.USWEST.NET (BRISCH@MN.USWEST.NET) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: failure notice Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000830084038.00a22bd0@mail.mn.uswest.net> >Return-Path: <> >Delivered-To: brisch@mail-mpls.uswest.net >Received: (qmail 79455 invoked by uid 0); 30 Aug 2000 13:45:07 -0000 >Received: from mail4.uswest.net (204.147.80.22) > by mplspop4.mpls.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2000 13:45:07 -0000 >Received: (qmail 6862 invoked by alias); 30 Aug 2000 13:45:02 -0000 >Delivered-To: BRISCH@uswest.net >Received: (qmail 6843 invoked for bounce); 30 Aug 2000 13:45:02 -0000 >Date: 30 Aug 2000 13:45:02 -0000 >From: MAILER-DAEMON@mail4.uswest.net >To: BRISCH@uswest.net >Subject: failure notice >Status: U >X-UIDL: 967643108.79464.mplspop4.mpls.uswest.net > >Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mail4.uswest.net. >I'm afraid I wasn't able to deliver your message to the following addresses. >This is a permanent error; I've given up. Sorry it didn't work out. > >: >Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1) > >--- Below this line is a copy of the message. > >Return-Path: >Received: (qmail 6833 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2000 13:45:02 -0000 >Received: from mplspop1.mpls.uswest.net (204.147.80.3) > by mail4.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2000 13:45:02 -0000 >Received: (qmail 17513 invoked by alias); 30 Aug 2000 13:44:57 -0000 >Delivered-To: fixup-owner-classiccmp.org@fixme >Received: (qmail 17508 invoked by uid 0); 30 Aug 2000 13:44:56 -0000 >Received: from zdialup204.mpls.uswest.net (HELO sysnt4intr) (216.160.11.205) > by mplspop1.mpls.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2000 13:44:56 -0000 >Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 08:36:48 -0500 >Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20000830083648.00a22c20@mail.mn.uswest.net> >From: BRISCH@uswest.net >To: owner-classiccmp.org >X-Sender: brisch@mail.mn.uswest.net >X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) >Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #356 >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > >remove unsubscribe stop just get me off this list > >>Return-Path: >>Delivered-To: brisch@mail-mpls.uswest.net >>Received: (qmail 89075 invoked by uid 0); 30 Aug 2000 11:46:14 -0000 >>Received: from mail9.uswest.net (204.147.80.27) >> by mail.mpls.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2000 11:46:14 -0000 >>Received: (qmail 76541 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2000 11:46:13 -0000 >>Received: from opal.tseinc.com (209.83.134.16) >> by mail9.uswest.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2000 11:46:13 -0000 >>Received: (from majordom@localhost) >> by opal.tseinc.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA39901 >> for classiccmp-classiccmp-org-digest-outgoing; Wed, 30 Aug 2000 06:41:06 >-0500 (CDT) >> (envelope-from owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org) >>Errors-To: owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org >>Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 06:41:06 -0500 (CDT) >>Message-Id: <200008301141.GAA39901@opal.tseinc.com> >>From: "classiccmp-digest" >>Sender: owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org >>To: classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org >>X-Authentication-Warning: opal.tseinc.com: majordom set sender to >owner-classiccmp-digest@classiccmp.org using -f >>Subject: classiccmp-digest V1 #356 >>Reply-To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >>Precedence: bulk >>Status: U >>X-UIDL: 967635975.89086.96574.mplspop5.mpls.uswest.net >> >> >>classiccmp-digest Wednesday, August 30 2000 Volume 01 : Number 356 >> >> >> >> >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:30:08 +0100 >>From: Adrian Graham >>Subject: RE: large collection of vintage machines on ebay >> >>They *are* taking over my computer room and garage though :) >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Sellam Ismail [mailto:foo@siconic.com] >>> Sent: 26 August 2000 18:01 >>> To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org >>> Subject: Re: large collection of vintage machines on ebay >>> >> >> >> >>WARNING: The remainder of this message has not been transferred. >>The estimated size of this message is 96642 bytes. >>Click on the server retrieve icon above and check mail again to get the >whole thing. If the server retrieve icon is not showing, then this message >is no longer on the server. >> > > From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Aug 30 09:47:28 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp me) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: VAX/VMS V5.5-2 Memory Requirements Message-ID: <381288422.967646848989.JavaMail.root@web621-wrb.mail.com> Real quickie answer... V5.x wants 4mb minimum to run. It can be tricked into three but dont try. I'd run just the 8mb board if backplane space is an issue as that is a comfortable config for 5.5. FYI: more memory helps only a tiny bit unless the machine is fairly loaded with users/apps. Allison ------Original Message------ From: healyzh@aracnet.com To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: August 30, 2000 3:33:29 AM GMT Subject: VAX/VMS V5.5-2 Memory Requirements OK, this falls in the stupid question catagory. What are the minimum memory requirements for VMS V5.5? I'm in the process of resurecting my VAXstation II/RC and would for some idiotic reason like to leave it in the original configuration except for the HD (dead RD53). I just got done stuffing the VCB01 back in and noticed that what I thought was a 8MB RAM board is only a 2MB RAM board. Now here is the idiotic part, I'm threatening to run it in a 3MB RAM configuration, despite having some 4MB and 8MB RAM boards. As a result I'm wondering what VMS V5.5's RAM requirements are. Unfortunatly I've not got much in the line of V5.5 doc's so can't look it up. Zane __________________________________________________________________ Get Verizon Online DSL for $39.95 and get 30 days of free service! http://www.bellatlantic.net/promos/p2banet.html From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Aug 30 09:55:09 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp me) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: OT: Philips "Easy-Connect" modem Message-ID: <380538200.967647309465.JavaMail.root@web624-wrb.mail.com> There is a register at x260h I think that is used to identify and control P&P devices like that. It has to go somewhere of even a true P&P board would never find it. The AMD5x86 is pretty decent but not a pentium, it's a low volatage faster 486dx/100 with bigger internal cache. I have a few here and they are solid machines. As to P&P, I have two dell 425sx boxen than run w95 just fine (nt or linux better!) and never had trouble with any of the better P&P modems and Eithercards I use despite the BIOS being totally P&P ignorant. There are such things as junk cards or worse lost media/docs needed to use them. Allison ------Original Message------ From: "Richard Erlacher" To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Sent: August 30, 2000 3:29:46 AM GMT Subject: Re: OT: Philips "Easy-Connect" modem It happens that this particular modem is the only remaining plug-n-pray card and, while most of these critters have some sort of driver that makes them assume some identity, this particular one doesn't. It does have a flash utility, but even that can't find the thing. Nonetheless, when I put the modem in a plug-n-play system it identifies itself, but the system can't find it sufficiently to identify it enough to install it. The install routine, unlike most, requires that one proceed only after the OS has announced recognition of the modem, at which point you're supposed to use the CD that comes with the modem. Unfortunately, though I've never had to use it before, it doesn't work to do the install now, because it can't find where the modem is. This system has been almost totally trouble-free, with the exception that, since the little old lady that uses it for web surfing and email hasn't learned how to avoid accumulating junk from the web, her disk space has gotten so low that the printer driver won't work any longer, so we replaced here 545 MB drive with a 13.6 GB one. Installing that was somewhat of a pain, but now that it's in place, it works great. If only one could get a modem that wasn't plug and play and didn't require a 22 GHz pentium to make it work. This box has a 160 MHz 5x86, which is just a sort-of Pentium-compatible '486. I've got dozens of these "out there" among the pro-bono clientele I've accumulated over the years and even though they're not the latest, fastest, etc, you'll have trouble prying the users' cold-dead fingers from around them. They really like them. I've found 300 MHz Pentium-equipped motherboards for $40 and not one of these folks wanted to swap 'em. These old things still have a couple of VLB slots along with a couple of ISA slots and 3 PCI. My mother has one too, and even she doesn't complain. Dick __________________________________________________________________ Get Verizon Online DSL for $39.95 and get 30 days of free service! http://www.bellatlantic.net/promos/p2banet.html From bills at adrenaline.com Wed Aug 30 10:22:53 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.0.20000829230303.05382c30@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: > Nah... too modern! Coke and cold (leftover) pizza. A true > hacker classic! > > Add some twinkies for that extra 'get yer morning started' boost. B^} Ahhh... The four basic food groups: The Hostess group The Coca Cola group The Pizza group The Chinese group From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Aug 30 10:50:06 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20000829230303.05382c30@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <39AD494E.1826.9ECD32@localhost> > > Nah... too modern! Coke and cold (leftover) pizza. A true > > hacker classic! > > Add some twinkies for that extra 'get yer morning started' boost. B^} > Ahhh... The four basic food groups: > The Hostess group ???? > The Coca Cola group > The Pizza group > The Chinese group H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From mark at cs.ualberta.ca Wed Aug 30 11:05:18 2000 From: mark at cs.ualberta.ca (Mark Green) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Equipment in Vancouver Message-ID: <20000830160528Z433009-21243+96@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> I got a fax this week from the Greater Vancouver Regional District with a rather interesting batch of PDP11 equipment they are trying to sell. The bids close on Sept 1, and its as-is, where-is. I have the complete list of equipment, it includes: PDP 11/84 PDP 11/44 2 RA81 2 RA80 3 RL02 TU80 LA120 LA100 30 RL02 disks etc They have decided to split up the batch, so you can bid on each unit separately. If there is anyone on the list interested, we would need to find someone in Vancouver (or close by) who could organize the pickup. I can provide more information to anyone who is interested. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Aug 30 12:07:24 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: References: <4.3.2.7.0.20000829230303.05382c30@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: >> Nah... too modern! Coke and cold (leftover) pizza. A true >> hacker classic! >> >> Add some twinkies for that extra 'get yer morning started' boost. B^} > >Ahhh... The four basic food groups: >The Hostess group >The Coca Cola group >The Pizza group >The Chinese group A good title for a book, Code I have written fueled solely by Twinkies and Dr. Pepper. From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Aug 30 11:17:58 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: VCF Requests Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0AF@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > > > Nah... too modern! Coke and cold (leftover) pizza. A true > > > hacker classic! > > > > Add some twinkies for that extra 'get yer morning > started' boost. B^} > > > Ahhh... The four basic food groups: > > The Hostess group > ???? The Hostess Group include Twinkies, SnoBalls, Cupcakes, etc... Twinkies are an oblong angel-food cake filled with sugary cream. And for some strange reason, they are available in both a regular form, and "low-fat" form. hth, -dq > > > The Coca Cola group > > The Pizza group > > The Chinese group > > H. > > -- > VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen > http://www.vintage.org/vcfe > http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Aug 30 11:19:40 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: trs-80, tcp-ip Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0B0@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Was there ever a tcp-ip stack that ran on a TRS-80 model 100? If so, does > anyone know where to get such a thing? Man, I get the wierdest questions... If anyone has one, it'd be the Packet software originally written by Keith Petersen (and added to by hosts of others). hth, -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Aug 30 11:20:51 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0B1@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Digging in a huge tangle of wires today I found an odd looking Honeywell > mouse. Instead of a ball, it has two wheels on the bottom angled so that > one turns on x axis and the other y axis movements. Otherwise it looks like > an old PC serial mouse, is it? Dunno, but Doug Englebart's original rodentia were made in this fashion... -dq From bills at adrenaline.com Wed Aug 30 11:25:08 2000 From: bills at adrenaline.com (Bill Sudbrink) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <39AD494E.1826.9ECD32@localhost> Message-ID: > > > Nah... too modern! Coke and cold (leftover) pizza. A true > > > hacker classic! > > > > Add some twinkies for that extra 'get yer morning started' > boost. B^} > > > Ahhh... The four basic food groups: > > The Hostess group > ???? The Hostess food group... consists of: Twinkies, HoHos, CupCakes, and many other fine snack food products with shelf lives in excess of 100 years. > > The Coca Cola group > > The Pizza group > > The Chinese group From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Aug 30 11:49:53 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <39AD494E.1826.9ECD32@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Aug 30, 0 05:50:06 pm" Message-ID: <200008301649.JAA16692@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > Ahhh... The four basic food groups: > > The Hostess group > ???? Don't you have Twinkies and Ding-Dongs in Germany? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- The truth is out there. The speculation, however, is really out there. ----- From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Aug 30 11:44:25 2000 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0AF@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: > The Hostess Group include Twinkies, SnoBalls, Cupcakes, > etc... Twinkies are an oblong angel-food cake filled with > sugary cream. > And for some strange reason, they are available in both a > regular form, and "low-fat" form. Is it true that the Twinkie filling with the multi-millenial shelf life is really an edible^H^H^H^H^H^H non-toxic form of WD-40? From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Aug 30 11:50:08 2000 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: trs-80, tcp-ip In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0B0@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Aug 30, 2000 12:19:40 pm" Message-ID: <200008301650.MAA01740@bg-tc-ppp708.monmouth.com> > > Was there ever a tcp-ip stack that ran on a TRS-80 model 100? If so, does > > anyone know where to get such a thing? Man, I get the wierdest > questions... > > If anyone has one, it'd be the Packet software originally written by > Keith Petersen (and added to by hosts of others). > > hth, > -dq > > Perhaps a search on KA9Q might help. Bill -- bpechter@monmouth.com | Microsoft: Where do you want to go today? | Linux: Where do you want to go tomorrow? | BSD: Are you guys coming, or what? From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 30 11:10:00 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: Recognize a mystery Nixdorf machine ? In-Reply-To: <20000830092033.C2754@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Jarkko Teppo wrote: > First one to recognize this mystery Nixdorf computer gets > ten points and a papukaijamerkki. > > Any additional information would be appreciated! > > http://www.tec.puv.fi/~s99137/nixdorf.html This looks a lot like a Data General machine from the 80s. I can't remember the model name of it off-hand unfortunately. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 30 11:12:07 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > Digging in a huge tangle of wires today I found an odd looking Honeywell > mouse. Instead of a ball, it has two wheels on the bottom angled so that > one turns on x axis and the other y axis movements. Otherwise it looks like > an old PC serial mouse, is it? I have a no-name, most-likely prototype mouse like this that I got with an early-80s CP/M machine. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From whdawson at mlynk.com Wed Aug 30 12:19:11 2000 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: Hidden Treasures - Newer DEC equipment available cheap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c012a6$6a22a3a0$f39e72d1@cobweb.net> Per previous posts, the following is available for a reasonable tax deductible donation and actual shipping cost(s): DECstation 325 Box, no accessories DECpc 425sxLP Box, no accessories LA65-CA Missing plastic paper tray at rear Details on unit(s) contents available on request, photos also. No reasonable offer refused. Shipping from: Washington, PA 15301 Physical location: Canonsburg, PA 15317 Bill From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Aug 30 12:30:32 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: from Fred Cisin at "Aug 30, 0 09:44:25 am" Message-ID: <200008301730.KAA14486@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > The Hostess Group include Twinkies, SnoBalls, Cupcakes, > > etc... Twinkies are an oblong angel-food cake filled with > > sugary cream. > > And for some strange reason, they are available in both a > > regular form, and "low-fat" form. > > Is it true that the Twinkie filling with the multi-millenial shelf life is > really an edible^H^H^H^H^H^H non-toxic form of WD-40? I dunno, but my ballbearings run so much better after I wedge the cakes in. -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong. -- Oscar Wilde From chris at mainecoon.com Wed Aug 30 12:31:24 2000 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: Recognize a mystery Nixdorf machine ? References: Message-ID: <39AD44EC.3E6FA67C@mainecoon.com> Sellam Ismail wrote: > > Any additional information would be appreciated! > > > > http://www.tec.puv.fi/~s99137/nixdorf.html > > This looks a lot like a Data General machine from the 80s. I can't > remember the model name of it off-hand unfortunately. With the skins on it looks remotely like an MV10000 (or a Desktop Generation machine with a _serious_ thyroid problem), but with the skins off it's utterly different... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 30 12:40:54 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Equipment in Vancouver In-Reply-To: <20000830160528Z433009-21243+96@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> from "Mark Green" at Aug 30, 2000 10:05:18 AM Message-ID: <200008301740.KAA01874@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I got a fax this week from the Greater Vancouver Regional > District with a rather interesting batch of PDP11 equipment > they are trying to sell. The bids close on Sept 1, and its > Is this Vancouver, Washington, or Vancouver BC? Zane From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Aug 30 12:42:58 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: OT: VCF Food Requests In-Reply-To: <200008301649.JAA16692@stockholm.ptloma.edu> References: <39AD494E.1826.9ECD32@localhost> from Hans Franke at "Aug 30, 0 05:50:06 pm" Message-ID: <39AD63C2.19610.106261B@localhost> > > > Ahhh... The four basic food groups: > > > The Hostess group > > ???? > Don't you have Twinkies and Ding-Dongs in Germany? Well, Since I don't know this kind of food, I can't answer. If they are realy mega sweet, I dount it - nobody would eat it ... I searched a bit and found some intresting science papers: http://23skidoo.org/Zines/PTBH/twinky.htm Anyway, I'll check it during VCF Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 30 12:46:30 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: VAX/VMS V5.5-2 Memory Requirements In-Reply-To: <381288422.967646848989.JavaMail.root@web621-wrb.mail.com> from "ajp me" at Aug 30, 2000 10:47:28 AM Message-ID: <200008301746.KAA02742@shell1.aracnet.com> > V5.x wants 4mb minimum to run. It can be tricked into three > but dont try. I'd run just the 8mb board if backplane space is an issue as > that is a comfortable config for 5.5. FYI: more memory helps only a tiny > bit unless the machine is fairly loaded with users/apps. > > Allison Since it's a II/RC backplane space is an issue :^) Thanks for the info. I'll probably try it with a 4MB board as I'm trying to run with as minimal of a configuration as possible so I can play with system tuning on this system. Of course all this depends on getting the VR260 back up and running. Zane From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Aug 30 12:48:04 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: Recognize a mystery Nixdorf machine ? In-Reply-To: References: <20000830092033.C2754@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> Message-ID: <39AD64F4.21076.10ACEDB@localhost> > > First one to recognize this mystery Nixdorf computer gets > > ten points and a papukaijamerkki. > > Any additional information would be appreciated! > > http://www.tec.puv.fi/~s99137/nixdorf.html > This looks a lot like a Data General machine from the 80s. I can't > remember the model name of it off-hand unfortunately. Belive me Sallam, it stands like a BNC, it looks like a BNC and it smells like a BNC (oops, that are my socks :) so it's a BNC4. I'd bet an East German KC against a blown L@@K R@RE 80486 CPU (Or your pizza leftovers from last VCF, what ever you prefer :) Gruss H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 30 12:49:20 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: DEC VR260 Monitor Problem In-Reply-To: <017c01c01253$7005fcc0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> from "Geoff Roberts" at Aug 30, 2000 04:55:11 PM Message-ID: <200008301749.KAA03260@shell1.aracnet.com> > Partial vertical collapse. For a start anyway. > Not familiar with the circuit, but likely culprits are electrolytic > capacitors in the vertical output stage, > or possibly the vertical output transistors themselves. > > > The only thing I'm sure about is that the VCB01, cable and VR260 all > worked > > when I stuck them in storaage about 3 years ago. > > Sounds like dried up caps. Id the vertical stage, and change all the > electrolytics in the area. Ugh, I was afraid of something like this. Sounds like this system just got shoved to the backburner until I get everything else settled into the new apartment. Fun. Well, it's another excuse to buy a decent soldering iron as I've now got two pieces of equipment I need to do soldering on. All in all, yuck! Zane From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Aug 30 12:58:57 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: VCF Requests Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0B3@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > > > The Hostess Group include Twinkies, SnoBalls, Cupcakes, > > > etc... Twinkies are an oblong angel-food cake filled with sugary cream. > > > And for some strange reason, they are available in both a > > > regular form, and "low-fat" form. > > > > Is it true that the Twinkie filling with the multi-millenial shelf life is > > really an edible^H^H^H^H^H^H non-toxic form of WD-40? > > I dunno, but my ballbearings run so much better after I wedge > the cakes in. I really had to restrain myself from posting the reply I wanted to... but this is a *family* list, isn't it? 8D From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Wed Aug 30 12:12:01 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:01 2005 Subject: VCF Requests Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0B2@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > > > Ahhh... The four basic food groups: > > > The Hostess group > > ???? > > Don't you have Twinkies and Ding-Dongs in Germany? You know, Here in Louisville, KY area (and further south I'm told), they quit calling those things "Ding Dongs" due to the jokes. Here, they're "King Don's" Go figure. -dq From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 30 13:10:59 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:02 2005 Subject: VCF Requests Message-ID: When shopping for Twinkies, look for the boxes that are labelled "No PCB's" Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From donm at cts.com Wed Aug 30 13:14:03 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:09 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Bill Sudbrink wrote: > > Nah... too modern! Coke and cold (leftover) pizza. A true > > hacker classic! > > > > Add some twinkies for that extra 'get yer morning started' boost. B^} > > Ahhh... The four basic food groups: > The Hostess group > The Coca Cola group > The Pizza group > The Chinese group > But only the Hostess group is a proven defense in a murder trial! From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Aug 30 13:22:57 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:09 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Equipment in Vancouver Message-ID: DO they have any non-DEC minicomputers? Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From transit at lerctr.org Wed Aug 30 13:30:38 2000 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:09 2005 Subject: OT: VCF Food Requests In-Reply-To: <39AD63C2.19610.106261B@localhost> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > Ahhh... The four basic food groups: > > > > The Hostess group > > > ???? > > Don't you have Twinkies and Ding-Dongs in Germany? > > Well, Since I don't know this kind of food, I can't answer. > If they are realy mega sweet, I dount it - nobody would > eat it ... Germans might have different tastes than Americans. One of my cousins married a German lady, and when she made cakes, theyy weren't quite as sweet as we were used to. (Still good, though) From transit at lerctr.org Wed Aug 30 13:34:45 2000 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:09 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0B2@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > > Here in Louisville, KY area (and further south I'm told), > they quit calling those things "Ding Dongs" due to the jokes. > > Here, they're "King Don's" Yeah, I noticed that when I (much younger) visited relatives in Mississippi....back in the 70's and 80's Now I find all that stuff too sweet, really. But read the labels...the Twinkie actually has less fat than some of the "yuppie-type" blueberry muffins, banana nut muffins, and all of those other supposedly "good for you" muffins! From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Aug 30 14:00:38 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:09 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0B3@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> from Douglas Quebbeman at "Aug 30, 0 01:58:57 pm" Message-ID: <200008301900.MAA14902@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > > The Hostess Group include Twinkies, SnoBalls, Cupcakes, > > > > etc... Twinkies are an oblong angel-food cake filled with sugary > cream. > > > > And for some strange reason, they are available in both a > > > > regular form, and "low-fat" form. > > > > > > Is it true that the Twinkie filling with the multi-millenial shelf life > is > > > really an edible^H^H^H^H^H^H non-toxic form of WD-40? > > > > I dunno, but my ballbearings run so much better after I wedge > > the cakes in. > > I really had to restrain myself from posting the reply I wanted to... > but this is a *family* list, isn't it? Man, I'm trying to *eat*! :-P (Though I guess I was unwittingly responsible for this mental image in the first place ... ;-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish. -- Euripedes ---------------- From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Aug 30 13:54:13 2000 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: PDP-11 Equipment in Vancouver In-Reply-To: <20000830160528Z433009-21243+96@scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> from Mark Green at "Aug 30, 2000 10:05:18 am" Message-ID: <200008301854.NAA16599@caesar.cs.umn.edu> I would be interested in some rl02 packs, and any unibus boards that might be available. Assuming someone wants to ship them to me. Basically i'm interested in stuff I might need for my 11/45. Whenever the physics dept decides to give it to me ;) -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From red at bears.org Wed Aug 30 14:47:49 2000 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) wrote: > > The Hostess Group include Twinkies, SnoBalls, Cupcakes, > > etc... Twinkies are an oblong angel-food cake filled with > > sugary cream. > > And for some strange reason, they are available in both a > > regular form, and "low-fat" form. > > Is it true that the Twinkie filling with the multi-millenial shelf life is > really an edible^H^H^H^H^H^H non-toxic form of WD-40? I can't speak to that, but I have it on very good faith that a Hostess snack cake does not get baked. In fact, it never comes close to an oven; the cakes are "catalyzed". I have no idea how that term applies to food product, but it sure sounds scary. ok r. From foo at siconic.com Wed Aug 30 13:51:20 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0B2@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Douglas Quebbeman wrote: > Here in Louisville, KY area (and further south I'm told), > they quit calling those things "Ding Dongs" due to the jokes. > > Here, they're "King Don's" Bad choice. "King Don" is what I call my penis. Someone better call Hostess. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Wed Aug 30 15:41:00 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: VCF Requests In-Reply-To: from "r. 'bear' stricklin" at "Aug 30, 0 03:47:49 pm" Message-ID: <200008302041.NAA16680@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > > The Hostess Group include Twinkies, SnoBalls, Cupcakes, > > > etc... Twinkies are an oblong angel-food cake filled with > > > sugary cream. > > > And for some strange reason, they are available in both a > > > regular form, and "low-fat" form. > > > > Is it true that the Twinkie filling with the multi-millenial shelf life is > > really an edible^H^H^H^H^H^H non-toxic form of WD-40? > > I can't speak to that, but I have it on very good faith that a Hostess > snack cake does not get baked. In fact, it never comes close to an > oven; the cakes are "catalyzed". > > I have no idea how that term applies to food product, but it sure sounds > scary. Whoa. So we're talking like a little palladium anode in the filling, an electric current, and voila! instant snackfood processed product? -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Quote me as saying I was misquoted. -- Groucho Marx ------------------------ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 30 13:29:06 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: 220v and PDP 11 cards In-Reply-To: <020901c0122d$62ef1d80$a652e780@L166> from "Daniel T. Burrows" at Aug 29, 0 10:51:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2351 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000830/d052c2e8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 30 13:37:43 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: DEC VR260 Monitor Problem In-Reply-To: <200008300459.VAA23770@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Aug 29, 0 09:59:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1517 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000830/d5b41a35/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 30 13:40:44 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Zycad Mach 1000 simulation engine, socal In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Aug 29, 0 10:37:45 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 812 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000830/5905942a/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 30 13:43:36 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: 220v and PDP 11 cards In-Reply-To: from "John Honniball" at Aug 30, 0 01:24:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 598 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000830/efd25558/attachment.ksh From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Aug 30 17:43:40 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse Message-ID: <006201c012d4$22d07f30$a00a9a8d@ajp166> Those are similar tot he round mouse (Hawley) that were used for the early VAXstations. Those were not PC compatable. I've never seen a mouse on a z80 system (most didn't ahve graphics). Allison -----Original Message----- From: Sellam Ismail To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 1:51 PM Subject: Re: Odd Honeywell Mouse >On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > >> Digging in a huge tangle of wires today I found an odd looking Honeywell >> mouse. Instead of a ball, it has two wheels on the bottom angled so that >> one turns on x axis and the other y axis movements. Otherwise it looks like >> an old PC serial mouse, is it? > >I have a no-name, most-likely prototype mouse like this that I got with >an early-80s CP/M machine. > >Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger >------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------ >Looking for a six in a pile of nines... > > VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 > San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California > See http://www.vintage.org for details! > > From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Aug 30 17:49:48 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse In-Reply-To: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0B1@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> (message from Douglas Quebbeman on Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:20:51 -0400) References: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0B1@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Message-ID: <20000830224948.1505.qmail@brouhaha.com> > > Digging in a huge tangle of wires today I found an odd looking Honeywell > > mouse. Instead of a ball, it has two wheels on the bottom angled so that > > one turns on x axis and the other y axis movements. Otherwise it looks > like > > an old PC serial mouse, is it? > > Dunno, but Doug Englebart's original rodentia were made in this fashion... The Honeywell mouse is not the same. It's wheels are nearly parallel to the bottom surface of the mouse, rather than perpendicular. But they are tilted slightly, one on each axis. The idea is to keep crud from being pulled into the mouse. Some other vendors OEM'd these or licensed the design, for instance some DEC hockeypuck mice work this way. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Aug 30 17:53:00 2000 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Zycad Mach 1000 simulation engine, socal In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <20000830225300.1556.qmail@brouhaha.com> Mike wrote: > tapes, etc. but that won't last, next viewing date is Thursday. Maybe > related I found a dozen or so Xylinx (sic) protoboards, size of a punch Tony wrote: > Xilinx are, of course, well-known for FPGA chips. I took the "(sic)" to mean that they specifically are NOT from Xilinx, but another company with a similar name. However, I don't know any more about it than you do, so I could well be wrong. From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Aug 30 17:54:05 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: VAX/VMS V5.5-2 Memory Requirements Message-ID: <00d501c012d6$3d3f16e0$a00a9a8d@ajp166> Run with 8mb, at 4mb it's going to be slow! If the VR260 is out use a terminal line, you can still run DECwindows later (or not). Allison -----Original Message----- From: healyzh@aracnet.com To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 2:11 PM Subject: Re: VAX/VMS V5.5-2 Memory Requirements >> V5.x wants 4mb minimum to run. It can be tricked into three >> but dont try. I'd run just the 8mb board if backplane space is an issue as >> that is a comfortable config for 5.5. FYI: more memory helps only a tiny >> bit unless the machine is fairly loaded with users/apps. >> >> Allison > >Since it's a II/RC backplane space is an issue :^) Thanks for the info. >I'll probably try it with a 4MB board as I'm trying to run with as minimal >of a configuration as possible so I can play with system tuning on this >system. Of course all this depends on getting the VR260 back up and >running. > > Zane > From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 30 19:09:24 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: VAX/VMS V5.5-2 Memory Requirements In-Reply-To: <00d501c012d6$3d3f16e0$a00a9a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Aug 30, 2000 06:54:05 PM Message-ID: <200008310009.RAA32737@shell1.aracnet.com> > Run with 8mb, at 4mb it's going to be slow! If the VR260 is out use a > terminal > line, you can still run DECwindows later (or not). > > Allison But slow is the idea believe it or not :^) The idea is to have it slow enough that any improvements are noticable, so I'll start with 5MB, and bump it up to 9MB if that's to bad. Part of the idea is also to have DECwindows running so I'll be giving fixing the VR260 a try. I'd been running this system without the VR260 using a terminal because I didn't have space for the monitor, would't you know it now that I do... Besides for fast I've got the PWS433au w/320MB RAM running V7.2 :^) Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Aug 30 21:20:30 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Zycad Mach 1000 simulation engine, socal In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at Aug 29, 0 10:37:45 pm Message-ID: >> tapes, etc. but that won't last, next viewing date is Thursday. Maybe >> related I found a dozen or so Xylinx (sic) protoboards, size of a punch > >Xilinx are, of course, well-known for FPGA chips. > >> card half of it open, 2 digit display, couple buttons, some kind of serial >> looking connection, runs off a 9v battery, big socket in the middle with a >> square chip in it of the same name. Sorry to be doing this from memory, but > >These sound like FPGA demonstration boards. The FPGA is the 'big chip'. >The connector is to link it to a PC (probably using a special 'download >cable' at TTL levels -- I doubt if it links to a serial port) to program >the chip. The displays and buttons got to I/O pins on the FPGA so you can >have user inputs and outputs to the logic circuit you program into the FPGA. > >-tony This has some I think relevent info http://toolbox.xilinx.com/docsan/2_1i/data/common/hug/hug3_1.htm The boards I have I think are all XC40xx-PC84, and the chip is a XC4003A. I have about a dozen boards, unfortunately only maybe 3 or 4 cables, but they don't appear complex. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Aug 30 21:04:59 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: >On Wed, 30 Aug 2000, Mike Ford wrote: > >> Digging in a huge tangle of wires today I found an odd looking Honeywell >> mouse. Instead of a ball, it has two wheels on the bottom angled so that >> one turns on x axis and the other y axis movements. Otherwise it looks like >> an old PC serial mouse, is it? > >I have a no-name, most-likely prototype mouse like this that I got with >an early-80s CP/M machine. Mine is Honeywell, references this patent by Jack Hawley http://patents.uspto.gov/cgi-bin/ilink4?INDEX+0+4628755+F Date code is 9313 catalog listing 2HW53-SE From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Wed Aug 30 21:05:34 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: VAX/VMS V5.5-2 Memory Requirements Message-ID: <010401c012f1$fa2cc430$a00a9a8d@ajp166> >But slow is the idea believe it or not :^) The idea is to have it slow >enough that any improvements are noticable, so I'll start with 5MB, and bump >it up to 9MB if that's to bad. Part of the idea is also to have DECwindows >running so I'll be giving fixing the VR260 a try. I'd been running this >system without the VR260 using a terminal because I didn't have space for the >monitor, would't you know it now that I do... 5mb is more reasonable. At 4mb doing a help screen is going to age you as it swaps itself dizzy. If memory serves the resident portion of VMS5.5 is around 3800 blocks and in 5mb there is at least a meg of loose space. I have two MVIIs so I know what your doing and how slow slow is. An aside for tuning, since the system swaps a fair amount (worse at minimal ram) a second disk with the PRIMARY page and swap files on it makes a huge difference. this is more effective if the second disk has it's own controller. A good drive for swap/page files is a RD52 (quantum D540) as it's fast and easily found (and run forever). Of course space and power for that dictates a BA123. The #2 MVII is a ba23 with CMD SCSI for the main drives and one lonesome RD52 on RQDX3 for standalone backup and page/swap files. Another trick is running VMStailor(remove unated stuff and libraries) and then doing an image backup and restore (defrag the disk). >Besides for fast I've got the PWS433au w/320MB RAM running V7.2 :^) That would be a tad faster. ;) Allison From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 30 22:28:14 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: VAX/VMS V5.5-2 Memory Requirements In-Reply-To: <010401c012f1$fa2cc430$a00a9a8d@ajp166> from "ajp166" at Aug 30, 2000 10:05:34 PM Message-ID: <200008310328.UAA22759@shell1.aracnet.com> > I have two MVIIs so I know what your doing and how slow slow is. An > aside for tuning, since the system swaps a fair amount (worse at minimal > ram) > a second disk with the PRIMARY page and swap files on it makes a huge > difference. this is more effective if the second disk has it's own > controller. > A good drive for swap/page files is a RD52 (quantum D540) as it's fast > and > easily found (and run forever). Of course space and power for that > dictates > a BA123. The #2 MVII is a ba23 with CMD SCSI for the main drives and > one lonesome RD52 on RQDX3 for standalone backup and page/swap files. Well, since part of the trick is keeping this as original as possible, I'm pretty much torn on what to do about drives. I've got three choices. The system came with a RQDX3 and RD53, as the RD53 is dead I could add a RD54. Or I could go with a WQESD and either a 150MB or 380MB ESDI drive. Or a Viking SCSI controller and a RZ25 (with probably a RZ23L for swap). Of the three I think I like the RD54 and the SCSI solutions best. The SCSI has the advantage of being able to do away with the TK50 for loading the system. Also as I understand it moving off of the RQDX3 is the single best thing I can do to improve system performance. I gather the RQDX3 is only about 600KB/sec, while the ESDI and SCSI controllers be considerably faster and might come close to saturating the Q-Bus. In fact I gather my Emulex MFM controller would even do considerably better than the RQDX3. Oh, the trying to keep it as original as possible means I'm being foolish and limiting myself to the BA23 with the crippled 5-slot backplane, instead of replacing the backplane with the 8-slot spare I've got. I've never claimed this is a rational project :^) so I'll probably go the RQDX3/RD54 route at least to start. Who knows when I get bored I may pull the VAXstation II/GPX carcass out of storage and see just how far I can soup it up compared to the VAXstation II/RC :^) Zane From nerdware at laidbak.com Wed Aug 30 22:51:18 2000 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Attn: Hams! Need help with CW/RTTY software for C64 or Apple II Message-ID: <200008310351.e7V3pHQ12391@grover.winsite.com> Hi, gang. Over the weekend, I picked up an old audio-to-TTL or RS-232 interface at a hamfest (AEA CP-1, for those of you who know what it is....) with joystick-port TTL cable, but no RS-232 components installed. (That might be a project for later, since I have the book/schemo/parts list). I want to use either one of my C-64's or one of my IIe's with the interface, but I lack the necessary software. Since we all love old software, and I know several of us are hams, I figured this would be as good a place as any to start looking. If I can't find anything, I'll try installing the RS-232 components to the motherboard and see if I can get a regular serial port to work and try it on my pc. But I'd really rather use the older machines for this. CW receive/decode is a priority, since I can still send with a paddle, and I'd like to try decoding some RTTY if possible. Can anyone help? Thanks. Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Aug 30 22:58:05 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations Message-ID: <200008310358.UAA26066@shell1.aracnet.com> OK, since I now have two pieces of equipment I need to get a decent soldering iron to work on, I'm wondering if people could make any recommendations. I'm needing it for my PDP-8/m front panel, and for the DEC VR260 I want to revive. I'll probably pick it up from Fry's this weekend. I'm thinking I want a WES50 Weller Soldering Station, as it looks like a good balance between cheapness and high-end. Of course anything would be a good replacement for the el'cheapo 20 year old Radio Shack Soldering Iron I've currently got :^) I've got to admit that the WSD80 looks nice though. Oh, in researching this I ran across this web page that might be of interest to people, "Basic Soldering FAQ" http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm Zane From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Aug 30 23:22:32 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: <200008310358.UAA26066@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000830212001.00c627f0@208.226.86.10> Well I got the EC2002 when I did this (don't know what the current numbers are) and make two recommendations: 1) Readout display that can read "set point" or "current temperature" 2) Replacable wands *and* tips. #1 means there is a LED display on the front and a switch, #2 means that the wand connects to the base station through a connector rather than being hard connected. For me at least this has been a really great piece of gear. --Chuck At 08:58 PM 8/30/00 -0700, you wrote: >OK, since I now have two pieces of equipment I need to get a decent >soldering iron to work on, I'm wondering if people could make any >recommendations. I'm needing it for my PDP-8/m front panel, and for the DEC >VR260 I want to revive. I'll probably pick it up from Fry's this weekend. > >I'm thinking I want a WES50 Weller Soldering Station, as it looks like a >good balance between cheapness and high-end. Of course anything would be a >good replacement for the el'cheapo 20 year old Radio Shack Soldering Iron >I've currently got :^) I've got to admit that the WSD80 looks nice though. > > >Oh, in researching this I ran across this web page that might be of interest >to people, "Basic Soldering FAQ" >http://www.epemag.wimborne.co.uk/solderfaq.htm > > Zane From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Aug 30 23:25:13 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: VAX/VMS V5.5-2 Memory Requirements In-Reply-To: <200008310328.UAA22759@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <010401c012f1$fa2cc430$a00a9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: <4.3.1.2.20000830212442.00c61420@208.226.86.10> I could send you a replacement RD53 :-) --Chuck At 08:28 PM 8/30/00 -0700, you wrote: >Well, since part of the trick is keeping this as original as possible, I'm >pretty much torn on what to do about drives. I've got three choices. > > > Zane From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Aug 30 23:59:47 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations Message-ID: <20000831045947.22019.qmail@web611.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chuck McManis wrote: > Well I got the EC2002... > 1) Readout display... > 2) Replacable wands *and* tips. > For me at least this has been a really great piece of gear. I got two of these when Software Results closed. I had to repair both of them last year (one was already dead when I got it, the other dies later). Another vote for such equipment - it's possible to get replacement parts. One had a bad thermal sensor, the other had a bad heating element (but the two units were of different revisions, so the parts weren't exactly interchangable). It cost a few bucks, but lots less than replacements. Well built gear that's maintainable. Great units if you can find them. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Aug 31 00:04:30 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: VAX/VMS V5.5-2 Memory Requirements In-Reply-To: <4.3.1.2.20000830212442.00c61420@208.226.86.10> from "Chuck McManis" at Aug 30, 2000 09:25:13 PM Message-ID: <200008310504.WAA00898@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I could send you a replacement RD53 :-) > --Chuck Considering how long I've been able to keep an RD53 running.... I think two days is the longest :^) I'll go with a RD52 before I'll use a RD53! Zane From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Aug 31 01:10:03 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Zycad Mach 1000 simulation engine, socal In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at Aug 29, 0 10:37:45 pm Message-ID: So far no interest in the Zycad Mach 1000, certainly is a cool looking thing to end up at a scrapper. From nabil at SpiritOne.com Thu Aug 31 00:49:26 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: <200008310358.UAA26066@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 30 Aug 2000 healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > OK, since I now have two pieces of equipment I need to get a decent > soldering iron to work on, I'm wondering if people could make any > recommendations. I'm needing it for my PDP-8/m front panel, and for the DEC > VR260 I want to revive. I'll probably pick it up from Fry's this weekend. > . . . Try http://pdp-8.org/tools.html -- Aaron Nabil From jate at uwasa.fi Thu Aug 31 00:34:47 2000 From: jate at uwasa.fi (Jarkko Teppo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Recognize a mystery Nixdorf machine ? In-Reply-To: <39AD0E51.4685.C8FC64@localhost>; from Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de on Wed, Aug 30, 2000 at 01:38:25PM +0200 References: <20000830092033.C2754@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> <39AD0E51.4685.C8FC64@localhost> Message-ID: <20000831083446.A509@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> On Wed, Aug 30, 2000 at 01:38:25PM +0200, Hans Franke wrote: > > Well, this is a Nixdorf 886x system (maybe a 8870, but > I don't think so). More specific it seams to be an BNC4 > system as used in banking environment BNC stands for > Banking Network Computer - these have been designd to > solve communication issues within the NCN Architecture > (Nixdorf Communication Network). These machines have > been build from the early 80s until two or three years > ago (development lasted until 1995). Hmm... banking. That would mean Cobol and IBM. Juuuust great. What kind of an OS were these running ? I did a quicky web-search and came up with a bunch of CV's, some stuff from computerwoche (which seemed nice, unfortunately I know only two German words and they weren't included) and some stuff in Spanish. > > > Your machine shows an typical BNC structure > > Upper Row: > Cassette Tape Drive > Two Disk Drives > > Lower Row: > Power Supply > UPS > CPU > 3 Leitungscontroller (Linecontrolers?) > Diskcontroller. > > I assume the Leitungscontroller have been used for > X.25 connections (Still _way_ common in financial > instalations). Okay, where do you attach the terminals ? I hope they're just standard RS-232 stuff, although I might be able to fetch some Nixdorf terminals if I have to. > > More Details are only available when you look at > the various tags along the boards I'll do that and post the information back here (though it might take a while) > > So, where do I have to pick up my papukaijammerki ? > And even more important, do I get a washing machine > for these 10 points ? > Hmm.. for the papukaijamerkki (papu=bean, Kaija=name of a woman, merkki= sign/sticker, papukaijamerkki=parrot sticker. The joys of a synthetic language with 15 cases) you can go here: http://www.copacabanaclub.fi/images/papukaija.gif (don't ask me what copacabanaclub is. I don't know) You can pick up the washing machine from Vaasa, Finland. Unfortunately it tends to boil over (let's see: I can fix a computer, I'm handy with programming and digital design but a washing machine ? That's some deep voodoo magic!) Anyway, thanks for the info! -- Jarkko Teppo jate@uwasa.fi From Innfogra at aol.com Thu Aug 31 01:35:54 2000 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data Cards Message-ID: Does anyone collect Nuclear Data Cards. They go in a LSI 11/03 system. My scrapper got some in. If anyone is interested I could post the numbers. There are a few LSI-11 cards too. Paxton Portland, Oregon From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Aug 31 03:32:46 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Recognize a mystery Nixdorf machine ? In-Reply-To: <20000831083446.A509@ntt-f4-104-3.techno.uwasa.fi> References: <39AD0E51.4685.C8FC64@localhost>; from Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de on Wed, Aug 30, 2000 at 01:38:25PM +0200 Message-ID: <39AE344E.29051.434C5DE@localhost> > > Well, this is a Nixdorf 886x system (maybe a 8870, but > > I don't think so). More specific it seams to be an BNC4 > > system as used in banking environment BNC stands for > > Banking Network Computer - these have been designd to > > solve communication issues within the NCN Architecture > > (Nixdorf Communication Network). These machines have > > been build from the early 80s until two or three years > > ago (development lasted until 1995). > Hmm... banking. That would mean Cobol and IBM. Juuuust great. Let's agree on Cobol and Assembler and Nixdorf. > What kind of an OS were these running ? Beat me, I have to look. > I did a quicky web-search and > came up with a bunch of CV's, some stuff from computerwoche (which > seemed nice, unfortunately I know only two German words and they > weren't included) and some stuff in Spanish. These Machines where sold all over the world. Nixdorf did have a real big footprint in Retail and Banking. > > Your machine shows an typical BNC structure > > Upper Row: > > Cassette Tape Drive > > Two Disk Drives > > Lower Row: > > Power Supply > > UPS > > CPU > > 3 Leitungscontroller (Linecontrolers?) > > Diskcontroller. > > I assume the Leitungscontroller have been used for > > X.25 connections (Still _way_ common in financial > > instalations). > Okay, where do you attach the terminals ? I hope they're just > standard RS-232 stuff, although I might be able to fetch some > Nixdorf terminals if I have to. Check for a circular plug (No, not DIN). To use all funktionality you'll need a Nixdorf Terminal controller and Nixdorf Terminals - A serial Terminal may be used for basic issues, but only if the Software is configured to use it. > > More Details are only available when you look at > > the various tags along the boards > I'll do that and post the information back here (though it > might take a while) :) I think we are not talking about an urgent revitalisation projekt :) > > So, where do I have to pick up my papukaijammerki ? > > And even more important, do I get a washing machine > > for these 10 points ? > Hmm.. for the papukaijamerkki (papu=bean, Kaija=name of a woman, merkki= > sign/sticker, papukaijamerkki=parrot sticker. The joys of a synthetic > language with 15 cases) you can go here: > http://www.copacabanaclub.fi/images/papukaija.gif > (don't ask me what copacabanaclub is. I don't know) Looks like a Kuba themed club/restaurant... I'll try to remember for my next visit to Helsinki. > You can pick up the washing machine from Vaasa, Finland. Unfortunately > it tends to boil over (let's see: I can fix a computer, I'm handy with > programming and digital design but a washing machine ? That's some > deep voodoo magic!) Hmmm - I guess I stay with the usual way (drop and pick up at my mothers house :) Servus H. -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Aug 31 04:12:34 2000 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: <200008310358.UAA26066@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >VR260 I want to revive. I'll probably pick it up from Fry's this weekend. > >I'm thinking I want a WES50 Weller Soldering Station, as it looks like a >good balance between cheapness and high-end. Of course anything would be a I can't think of any good reason to buy a new soldering iron, my ancient Weller is still going strong after many many years of heavy use. From Jgzabol at aol.com Thu Aug 31 03:52:23 2000 From: Jgzabol at aol.com (Jgzabol@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: asgnpart.com Message-ID: In einer eMail vom 8/28/100 5:12:06PM, schreibt Marvin: << Jgzabol@aol.com wrote: > > Hello, > > would anyone know where I could find the MS-DOS progam asgnpart.com, > which was part of some of the versions 3.x and 4.x, but not of all these > versions. This is a new one on me; what does it do and is the spelling correct? >> Hi Marvin, asgnpart 2:D assigns drive letter D to the second partition on the hard disk. The spelling is correct. There are some traces of that program in the latest instructions MS provides for installation of modern Windows systems. In that doc they state that the installation will remove these pre-MS-DOS 5.0 components, when found: ...., asgnpart.com, .... I have some drivers which might do the same, however these are for other customized MS-DOS versions, and therefore neither original nor sure to work. What I would like to obtain is the asgnpart.com. Thanks and regards John G. Zabolitzky From ghldbrd at ccp.com Thu Aug 31 09:41:35 2000 From: ghldbrd at ccp.com (Gary Hildebrand) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Attn: Hams! Need help with CW/RTTY software for C64 or Apple II In-Reply-To: <200008310351.e7V3pHQ12391@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: Hello Paul On 30-Aug-00, you wrote: > Hi, gang. > > Over the weekend, I picked up an old audio-to-TTL or RS-232 > interface at a hamfest (AEA CP-1, for those of you who know what > it is....) with joystick-port TTL cable, but no RS-232 components > installed. (That might be a project for later, since I have the > book/schemo/parts list). > > I want to use either one of my C-64's or one of my IIe's with the > interface, but I lack the necessary software. Since we all love old > software, and I know several of us are hams, I figured this would be > as good a place as any to start looking. > > If I can't find anything, I'll try installing the RS-232 components to > the motherboard and see if I can get a regular serial port to work > and try it on my pc. But I'd really rather use the older machines for > this. CW receive/decode is a priority, since I can still send with a > paddle, and I'd like to try decoding some RTTY if possible. > > Can anyone help? > > Thanks. I have a copy of Hamtext for the C=64 that might work, but it is only good for Baudot and CW. None of the good stuff like clover or pactor. You might refresh my memory on the CP1 there. I can't remember if it is TTL out, RS232 or both. I'd just use the TTL out as that is what the software driven serial port is on the 64. If this doesn't pan out, I'd use an active filter for the single tone you need for CW, rectify it and turn that DC level into something TTL would like. Regards -- Gary Hildebrand Box 6184 St. Joseph, MO 64506-0184 816-662-2612 or ghldbrd@ccp.com From agraham at ccat.co.uk Thu Aug 31 04:09:38 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay Message-ID: <00Aug31.100938bst.46101@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Actually, if I'd had $5K spare and the means of getting it all from the US I'd have bid - there aren't many machines in that collection I *have* got! a > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Ford [mailto:mikeford@socal.rr.com] > Sent: 29 August 2000 20:56 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: large collection of vintage machines on ebay > > > >Obviously nobody thinks it's worth $5K! > > >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=419928107 > >> > > Perhaps for obvious reasons, it is a LARGE mixed batch, which > almost nobody > could be expected to want all of. Lotting items together like that is > throwing money away for the sellers convenience, and greatly > reduces the > bid value. Then with the first bid at $5k, even if it might > sell for that, > greatly reduces the chances of getting a first bid. > > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Aug 31 04:21:59 2000 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay In-Reply-To: <00Aug31.100938bst.46101@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Message-ID: <39AE3FD7.7695.461D7C5@localhost> > Actually, if I'd had $5K spare and the means of getting it all from the US > I'd have bid - there aren't many machines in that collection I *have* got! well, you have to add 2-3K USD for shiping... hans -- VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen http://www.vintage.org/vcfe http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe From agraham at ccat.co.uk Thu Aug 31 04:39:39 2000 From: agraham at ccat.co.uk (Adrian Graham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: large collection of vintage machines on ebay Message-ID: <00Aug31.103939bst.46101@gatekeeper.ccat.co.uk> Plus someone would have to PACK it all! > -----Original Message----- > From: Hans Franke [mailto:Hans.Franke@mch20.sbs.de] > Sent: 31 August 2000 10:34 > To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org > Subject: RE: large collection of vintage machines on ebay > > > > > Actually, if I'd had $5K spare and the means of getting it > all from the US > > I'd have bid - there aren't many machines in that > collection I *have* got! > > well, you have to add 2-3K USD for shiping... > hans > > -- > VCF Europa 2.0 am 28./29. April 2001 in Muenchen > http://www.vintage.org/vcfe > http://www.homecomputer.de/vcfe > From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Aug 31 08:16:17 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:16 2005 Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0BA@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > Those are similar tot he round mouse (Hawley) that were used for the early > VAXstations. Those were not PC compatable. I've never seen > a mouse on a z80 system (most didn't ahve graphics). At a local electronics trade school where I worked (as a programmer and teaching digital briefly), we had a bunch of Televideo TS-803 Z-80 based CP/M workstations; each had a mouse port, we bought only one mouse tho; it was an early Mouse Systems unit, optical, but requiring the dedicated optical mouse pad. Worked quite nicely, tho, and I wrote a rudimentary drawing program for it to create graphic objects for the computer-based simluation of our digital trainer/breadboard systems. Graphics capability was 640 x 280, kinda thin vertically, but the ROMs had line types, fill types, etc. -doug q From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Aug 31 02:19:07 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000831001907.00978480@pop.sttl.uswest.net> I'm having trouble moving around in the garage, and finding places for all the stuff I've gathered. I think it's time I moved some of it, especially considering that my interest in radio is growing faster than my interest in computers. FOR STARTERS: Please consider the following to be available. LOCAL PICKUP ONLY as most items are large and heavy. I'm in Kent, WA, southeast of Seattle. SMS-1000 PDP-11/73 clone. In great shape, with full tech manual (including schematics). I may even be able to find a pair of mating rack slides to go with it. Boots up, was fully operable when pulled from a working system two years ago, in (protected) storage with me since. $40/or best offer? High? Low? Insane? HP 7586B 8-PEN DRAFTING PLOTTER: Beautifully made high-precision device. Fully operational, if a bit noisy when drawing. Has both serial (RS232) and HPIB interfaces. Used to be my primary unit until I acquired my HP DraftMaster SX+ today. ;-) I think I may have a partial copy of the 7586's op/service manual. Such is no longer available from HP. I'd like to get some kind of cash for this since it's still in great shape. Shall we start at $50/or best offer? High? Low? Somewhere in the middle? BIG SCSI RAID CABINET: This is a retiree from a Tandem/AT&T system. Has a whole bunch of Seagate 'Wren' series 1.2 gig single-ended SCSI drives in their own carriers. The cabinet itself is beautifully made, heavily EMI-shielded, and has its own built-in battery backup supply. Here's the kicker: Even though I re-strapped both AC power supplies for 120VAC operation (it was set for 240), I can't seem to get the silly thing to do more than light the green 'OK' LEDs on the power supplies. The drives don't spin up, so I'm thinking some sort of control signal is required that I don't have a clue how to apply. This one's a bargain at $10.00. But you've gotta cart it out of here! Best done by removing all the plug-innable stuff. The cabinet then becomes light enough for one husky person to move reasonably well. EXABYTE 8200 WITH PERTEC INTERFACE: That's right, folks. This one's a real head-scratcher. It's an 8200 in a custom enclosure made by Contemporary Cybernetics of VA. (out of business now, I think) around 1990. It contains a Pertec-to-SE/SCSI bridge board, and it also has a nice two-line alphanumeric display to let you know what the drive's doing. Native capacity would be 2.3 gigs. Condition: Seems to work, at least through basic power-up. I don't have a system set up with a Pertec controller at the moment, so I can't test it fully. However, I have cleaned the heads, and the drive itself seems to be fine with loading a tape. Asking $20/offer? NOTE: You'll need a pickup truck or cargo van to haul the plotter. I would really not recommend carrying it lying down... it was meant to travel standing on its (well-castered) legs. I WILL BE SELLING AT THE RADIO CLUB OF TACOMA SWAP MEET on Sep. 9th. E-mail me if you'd like location information for such. Thanks for looking at least. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Aug 31 08:51:55 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0BB@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> > EXABYTE 8200 WITH PERTEC INTERFACE: That's right, folks. This one's a real > head-scratcher. It's an 8200 in a custom enclosure made by Contemporary > Cybernetics of VA. (out of business now, I think) around 1990. It contains > a Pertec-to-SE/SCSI bridge board, and it also has a nice two-line > alphanumeric display to let you know what the drive's doing. Native > capacity would be 2.3 gigs. > > Condition: Seems to work, at least through basic power-up. I don't have a > system set up with a Pertec controller at the moment, so I can't test it > fully. However, I have cleaned the heads, and the drive itself seems to be > fine with loading a tape. Asking $20/offer? I'd go for this; I could pay a week from Friday (things are tight right now). let me know... -dq From dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com Thu Aug 31 09:26:05 2000 From: dhquebbeman at theestopinalgroup.com (Douglas Quebbeman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Stuff Available Message-ID: <8763AE987517D2118C0500A0C9AB234C2BB0BC@tegntserver.tegjeff.com> Oops! didn't mean to post that to the list... > -----Original Message----- > From: Douglas Quebbeman [mailto:dhquebbeman@theestopinalgroup.com] > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2000 9:52 AM > To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' > Subject: RE: Stuff Available > > > > EXABYTE 8200 WITH PERTEC INTERFACE: That's right, > folks. This one's > a real > > head-scratcher. It's an 8200 in a custom enclosure made by > Contemporary > > Cybernetics of VA. (out of business now, I think) around > 1990. It contains > > a Pertec-to-SE/SCSI bridge board, and it also has a nice two-line > > alphanumeric display to let you know what the drive's doing. Native > > capacity would be 2.3 gigs. > > > > Condition: Seems to work, at least through basic > power-up. I don't > have a > > system set up with a Pertec controller at the moment, so I > can't test it > > fully. However, I have cleaned the heads, and the drive > itself seems to be > > fine with loading a tape. Asking $20/offer? > > I'd go for this; I could pay a week from Friday (things are > tight right > now). > > let me know... -dq > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 31 12:28:22 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: <200008310358.UAA26066@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Aug 30, 0 08:58:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 862 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000831/26f287ea/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Thu Aug 31 12:51:01 2000 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: Re: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations (Tony Duell) References: <200008310358.UAA26066@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <14766.39685.915256.25742@phaduka.neurotica.com> On August 31, Tony Duell wrote: > > I'm thinking I want a WES50 Weller Soldering Station, as it looks like a > > good balance between cheapness and high-end. Of course anything would be a > > While I can't comment on that particular model, I'd certainly go for a > Weller. I'm still using one of their Magnastat TCP irons, and it's never > given me any problems. Yes, I have a TCP here too...I got it fifteen years ago, and it was old then! It has yet to give me any trouble...and for such a simple mechanism, the temperature control works very well! Kudos to Weller for making such an indestructible tool. -Dave McGuire From emu at ecubics.com Thu Aug 31 13:22:02 2000 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: EPROM/PROM/PAL/.. programmer recommendations References: <200008310358.UAA26066@shell1.aracnet.com> <14766.39685.915256.25742@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <39AEA24A.EC9D6FA7@ecubics.com> Hi, Because we are a little OT anyway, I like to take the chance and ask ;-) What is the " best" programmer, one can buy this days ? I like to program the old (2716, ...) and the new stuff. (EPROM/PALs/FLASH/...) cheers & thanks, emanuel From elvey at hal.com Thu Aug 31 13:32:44 2000 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: <14766.39685.915256.25742@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <200008311832.LAA01247@civic.hal.com> Dave McGuire wrote: > On August 31, Tony Duell wrote: > > > I'm thinking I want a WES50 Weller Soldering Station, as it looks like a > > > good balance between cheapness and high-end. Of course anything would be > a > > > > While I can't comment on that particular model, I'd certainly go for a > > Weller. I'm still using one of their Magnastat TCP irons, and it's never > > given me any problems. > > Yes, I have a TCP here too...I got it fifteen years ago, and it was > old then! It has yet to give me any trouble...and for such a simple > mechanism, the temperature control works very well! Kudos to Weller > for making such an indestructible tool. Hi The only problem I've had with the tips that are controlled by the magnetic Currie point is when someone doesn't use the ground. The switching spikes can be quite high and many don't realize how much it stresses the parts. We had a bunch of power FETs that had no input protection damaged when the assembler use an iron without the proper grounding. The person that had cut the ground lead said that they worked fine without the ground. We talked about putting the $5K cost of damaged parts against his pay check. We didn't have any more problems of missing ground wires. Dwight From ncherry at home.net Thu Aug 31 13:48:05 2000 From: ncherry at home.net (Neil Cherry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: EPROM/PROM/PAL/.. programmer recommendations References: <200008310358.UAA26066@shell1.aracnet.com> <14766.39685.915256.25742@phaduka.neurotica.com> <39AEA24A.EC9D6FA7@ecubics.com> Message-ID: <39AEA865.985576A1@home.net> emanuel stiebler wrote: > > Hi, > > Because we are a little OT anyway, I like to take the chance and ask ;-) > > What is the " best" programmer, one can buy this days ? > > I like to program the old (2716, ...) and the new stuff. > (EPROM/PALs/FLASH/...) > > cheers & thanks, > emanuel I love the Dataman S4 ( http://www.dataman.com/ ) -- Linux Home Automation Neil Cherry ncherry@home.net http://members.home.net/ncherry (Text only) http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/lightsey/52 (Graphics) http://linuxha.sourceforge.net/ (SourceForge) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Aug 31 13:55:19 2000 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: EPROM/PROM/PAL/.. programmer recommendations In-Reply-To: <39AEA24A.EC9D6FA7@ecubics.com> References: <200008310358.UAA26066@shell1.aracnet.com> <14766.39685.915256.25742@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20000831114939.0282cae0@208.226.86.10> For my money it is the Needham's EMP-20, nearly on topic since they were introduced in 1993 :-) Its a parallel port based device and their software programs a _LOT_ of devices. Further with just the base unit you can program a lot of stuff. With three "personality" cards you can program every PIC made and nearly every ATMEL part made. There personality cards cleverly use the SIMM socket as a means for re-routing power/signals to the socket that can accommodate narrow or wide parts up to 64 pins. I also bought the 68 pin PLCC adapter to program 68HC11's. The "downside" is that their software continues to be DOS based and so my DOS PC continues its life on my workbench as primarily a tool for operating such things. (I also picked up a surplus two channel digital oscilliscope card for it at one point so that gets used now and then (b/w is 15Mhz though :-() --Chuck At 12:22 PM 8/31/00 -0600, you wrote: >Hi, > >Because we are a little OT anyway, I like to take the chance and ask ;-) > >What is the " best" programmer, one can buy this days ? > >I like to program the old (2716, ...) and the new stuff. >(EPROM/PALs/FLASH/...) > >cheers & thanks, >emanuel From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Aug 31 14:31:07 2000 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: <200008311832.LAA01247@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at Aug 31, 0 11:32:44 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1290 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/20000831/2d9e37dc/attachment.ksh From mmcfadden at cmh.edu Thu Aug 31 15:28:58 2000 From: mmcfadden at cmh.edu (McFadden, Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: VCF Requests i.e. liquid and solid fuel Message-ID: I vote for greasy burgers and Pepsi I seem to remember writing lots of code and punching lots of cards late at night or early in the morning fueled by a couple of 2 liter bottle of Pepsi and many Jack-in-the-Box burgers. The only problem was when I finally went to bed I was unable to sleep and ran/walked through my code several more times. My father, the doctor, finally diagnosed the problem as way too much sugar and caffeine. I have heard that 1 or 2 dozen White Castle burgers is another substitute. Now 20 years later I've given up the Pepsi to prevent the ulcer. Mike Old Code Dog From RCini at congressfinancial.com Thu Aug 31 15:42:20 2000 From: RCini at congressfinancial.com (Cini, Richard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Article copy - PE November 1981 Message-ID: <497A9E0467D2D2119B760090271EB8E53E31A0@MAIL10> Does anyone have this issue of Popular Electronics? I'm looking for Part 3 of a series by Randy Carlstrom titled "Designing with the 8080 Microprocessor". Parts 1 and 2 appeared in the 9/81 and 10/81 issues of PE, respectively. If someone can scan this for me, I'd be most greatful. Contact me at home (rcini@msn.com) Thanks again. Rich ========================== Richard A. Cini, Jr. Congress Financial Corporation 1133 Avenue of the Americas 30th Floor New York, NY 10036 (212) 545-4402 (212) 840-6259 (facsimile) From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Aug 31 15:50:47 2000 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Nuclear Data Cards Message-ID: Umm the only nuclear data cards I've seen date to the late 60's and there is no way in hell they would ever go in an LSI-11... I've wondered if the ones I've seen are from their clone of the PDP-8 but I dunno, guess they'll just stay the scrapper (the ones I know of that is). Will J _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Aug 31 16:31:54 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: VCF Requests i.e. liquid and solid fuel In-Reply-To: from "McFadden, Mike" at "Aug 31, 0 03:28:58 pm" Message-ID: <200008312131.OAA12036@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > I have heard that 1 or 2 dozen White Castle burgers is another substitute. White Castle. Ugh, filthy things. I was introduced to them by my WC-munchin' pa when I visited family in Ohio, and they were positively nasty. :-P -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Born free. Taxed to death. ------------------------------------------------- From nabil at SpiritOne.com Thu Aug 31 16:25:39 2000 From: nabil at SpiritOne.com (Aaron Nabil) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: EPROM/PROM/PAL/.. programmer recommendations In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20000831114939.0282cae0@208.226.86.10> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Chuck McManis wrote: > For my money it is the Needham's EMP-20, nearly on topic since they were > introduced in 1993 :-) Yeah, me too. I also keep a DATA I/O 29B around, but the EMP-20 is my main unit. -a From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Aug 31 16:36:35 2000 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Aug 31, 2000 01:12:34 AM Message-ID: <200008312136.OAA15976@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I can't think of any good reason to buy a new soldering iron, my ancient > Weller is still going strong after many many years of heavy use. > Well, when the one it will be replacing is a 20 year old bottom of the line Radio Shack piece of junk.... What I've got is good enough for electrical wiring and such, but it really doesn't cut it for electronics :^) Zane From donm at cts.com Thu Aug 31 16:39:12 2000 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: VCF Requests i.e. liquid and solid fuel In-Reply-To: <200008312131.OAA12036@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > White Castle. Ugh, filthy things. I was introduced to them by my WC-munchin' > pa when I visited family in Ohio, and they were positively nasty. :-P Actually, Cameron, the ones from Boll Weevil are about all that is fit to eat! - don From transit at lerctr.org Thu Aug 31 16:56:18 2000 From: transit at lerctr.org (Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: VCF Requests i.e. liquid and solid fuel In-Reply-To: <200008312131.OAA12036@stockholm.ptloma.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Cameron Kaiser wrote: > > I have heard that 1 or 2 dozen White Castle burgers is another substitute. > > White Castle. Ugh, filthy things. I was introduced to them by my WC-munchin' > pa when I visited family in Ohio, and they were positively nasty. :-P > I've heard those called "murder burgers". When they hit your stomach, it was murder... From John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com Thu Aug 31 16:57:07 2000 From: John.Allain at donnelley.infousa.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: VCF Requests i.e. liquid and solid fuel In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c01396$68aec440$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> > White Castle. Ugh, filthy things.... My No.Calif. version: Pick up a few White Castles, stop by the ?Corn Palace? off of ?Lawrence Expwy.? Get a 1 good tomato and pepper, slice em up as Burger upgrades. 1000 times better. Is Silly Valley still good for Farm stands? There used to be 1 south of Fry's and 1 between SGI and Sun. John A. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Aug 31 17:51:14 2000 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: VCF Requests i.e. liquid and solid fuel Message-ID: <20000831225114.4559.qmail@web616.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Charles P. Hobbs (SoCalTip)" wrote: > > White Castle. Ugh, filthy things. > > I've heard those called "murder burgers". When they hit your stomach, > it was murder... Sliders. Gut Busters. Gut Bombs. Rat Burgers. You get the picture. -ethan ===== Even though my old e-mail address is no longer going to vanish, please note my new public address: erd@iname.com The original webpage address is still going away. The permanent home is: http://penguincentral.com/ See http://ohio.voyager.net/ for details. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ From spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu Thu Aug 31 18:06:16 2000 From: spectre at stockholm.ptloma.edu (Cameron Kaiser) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: VCF Requests i.e. liquid and solid fuel In-Reply-To: from Don Maslin at "Aug 31, 0 02:39:12 pm" Message-ID: <200008312306.QAA11820@stockholm.ptloma.edu> > > White Castle. Ugh, filthy things. I was introduced to them by my WC-munchin' > > pa when I visited family in Ohio, and they were positively nasty. :-P > > Actually, Cameron, the ones from Boll Weevil are about all that is fit > to eat! I agree! They're un-boll-weev-able. :-) -- ----------------------------- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ -- Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * ckaiser@stockholm.ptloma.edu -- Workers of the world, stand up! You have nothing to lose but your chairs. -- From foo at siconic.com Thu Aug 31 17:01:38 2000 From: foo at siconic.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: VCF Requests i.e. liquid and solid fuel In-Reply-To: <000001c01396$68aec440$0e0301ac@databaseamerica.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, John Allain wrote: > Is Silly Valley still good for Farm stands? > There used to be 1 south of Fry's and 1 between > SGI and Sun. HAHAHAHAHA. Sorry :) No, really, sadly this place has really, really changed. You gotta go way further south now, like into Gilroy, to come upon fruit & vegetable stands. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF 4.0 is September 30-October 1 San Jose Convention Center, San Jose, California See http://www.vintage.org for details! From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Aug 31 18:09:07 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: VAX/VMS V5.5-2 Memory Requirements Message-ID: <008401c013a0$9ee6e100$fb0f9a8d@ajp166> -----Original Message----- From: healyzh@aracnet.com To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Wednesday, August 30, 2000 11:52 PM Subject: Re: VAX/VMS V5.5-2 Memory Requirements >Well, since part of the trick is keeping this as original as possible, I'm >pretty much torn on what to do about drives. I've got three choices. > >The system came with a RQDX3 and RD53, as the RD53 is dead I could add a >RD54. Or I could go with a WQESD and either a 150MB or 380MB ESDI drive. >Or a Viking SCSI controller and a RZ25 (with probably a RZ23L for swap). Of >the three I think I like the RD54 and the SCSI solutions best. The SCSI has >the advantage of being able to do away with the TK50 for loading the system. RQDX isn't slow just that MFM drives runs at the same data rate as eithernet which is not fast. SCSI if you have it is faster, ESDI then MFM. Two RQDX3s running two drives is MUCH faster than one RQDX3 running two spindles(err drives). Expereince has proven that. >Also as I understand it moving off of the RQDX3 is the single best thing I >can do to improve system performance. I gather the RQDX3 is only about True. >Oh, the trying to keep it as original as possible means I'm being foolish >and limiting myself to the BA23 with the crippled 5-slot backplane, instead >of replacing the backplane with the 8-slot spare I've got. I've never >claimed this is a rational project :^) so I'll probably go the RQDX3/RD54 >route at least to start. Suit yourself. I have a std BA23 and a 123 and if I had a choice I'd run two ba123s for perfomance and cooling reasons. >Who knows when I get bored I may pull the VAXstation II/GPX carcass out of >storage and see just how far I can soup it up compared to the >VAXstation II/RC :^) Start with two RQDX3s rather than one or better yet CMD scsi. Pack it with ram 16mb for MVII. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Aug 31 18:23:11 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Odd Honeywell Mouse Message-ID: <008701c013a2$7056a490$fb0f9a8d@ajp166> ----Original Message----- From: Douglas Quebbeman To: 'classiccmp@classiccmp.org' Date: Thursday, August 31, 2000 9:33 AM Subject: RE: Odd Honeywell Mouse >> Those are similar tot he round mouse (Hawley) that were used for the early >> VAXstations. Those were not PC compatable. I've never seen >> a mouse on a z80 system (most didn't ahve graphics). > >At a local electronics trade school where I worked (as a programmer and >teaching digital briefly), we had a bunch of Televideo TS-803 Z-80 based >CP/M workstations; each had a mouse port, we bought only one mouse tho; >it was an early Mouse Systems unit, optical, but requiring the dedicated >optical mouse pad. Worked quite nicely, tho, and I wrote a rudimentary >drawing program for it to create graphic objects for the computer-based >simluation of our digital trainer/breadboard systems. Never said it was never done. I said *most* didnt'. I have a triad of Visual 1050s that have a 6502+32k for graphics so I know some did. It was however quite rare for those to have a mouse and software that was mouse aware. Allison From ajp166 at bellatlantic.net Thu Aug 31 18:27:02 2000 From: ajp166 at bellatlantic.net (ajp166) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: Soldering Iron recommendations Message-ID: <00cc01c013a3$d984f420$fb0f9a8d@ajp166> I'm still running a wTCP60, with ground. It's the one I bought back in '79 I think. I have two the other one is older and worn but it did build the Altair, and can vote and drink in all states! Allison > Yes, I have a TCP here too...I got it fifteen years ago, and it was >old then! It has yet to give me any trouble...and for such a simple >mechanism, the temperature control works very well! Kudos to Weller >for making such an indestructible tool. > > -Dave McGuire From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Aug 31 18:39:26 2000 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Free DEC CI cables In-Reply-To: <008701c013a2$7056a490$fb0f9a8d@ajp166> Message-ID: Free for the price of shipping or out they go: Four DEC CI Cables, part number BNCIA(-20?). Thick style, I believe they are 20 meters long. Paul From dburrows at netpath.net Wed Aug 30 18:42:33 2000 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: EPROM/PROM/PAL/.. programmer recommendations Message-ID: <016001c012df$8bb58530$a652e780@L166> I use the Advantech Labtool 48. So far it has done everything I have asked of it. http://www.generaldevice.com/ He also gets various used ones in. Dan -----Original Message----- From: emanuel stiebler To: classiccmp@classiccmp.org Date: Thursday, August 31, 2000 2:35 PM Subject: Semi-OT: EPROM/PROM/PAL/.. programmer recommendations Hi, Because we are a little OT anyway, I like to take the chance and ask ;-) What is the " best" programmer, one can buy this days ? I like to program the old (2716, ...) and the new stuff. (EPROM/PALs/FLASH/...) cheers & thanks, emanuel From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Aug 31 20:11:52 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Semi-OT: EPROM/PROM/PAL/.. programmer recommendations In-Reply-To: <39AEA24A.EC9D6FA7@ecubics.com> References: <200008310358.UAA26066@shell1.aracnet.com> <14766.39685.915256.25742@phaduka.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000831181152.00993a00@pop.sttl.uswest.net> At 12:22 31-08-2000 -0600, you wrote: >Hi, > >Because we are a little OT anyway, I like to take the chance and ask ;-) > >What is the " best" programmer, one can buy this days ? "Best" is a highly relative term. How much do you want to spend? How complex a device do you want to be able to program? I got lucky a few years ago when I got a Data I/O 'UniSite' system. They're great units, but upkeep (software updates) are hideously expensive (around $1,200/year). That's why I always made it a point to leach a copy off friends who had access to similar systems at work. >I like to program the old (2716, ...) and the new stuff. >(EPROM/PALs/FLASH/...) The UniSite will program back to the 2716, and just about anything that is programmable these days. It's pin-driven, so getting it to program something new is a simple (for Data I/O's programmers) matter of writing a new algorithm. For more hobbyist-friendly (read: much less expensive to maintain) units, I've heard good things about Needham's and American Reliance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Aug 31 20:45:11 2000 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Free DEC CI cables In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Claimed. On Thu, 31 Aug 2000, Paul Thompson wrote: > Free for the price of shipping or out they go: > > Four DEC CI Cables, part number BNCIA(-20?). Thick style, I believe they > are 20 meters long. > > Paul > > > From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Aug 31 22:13:20 2000 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Attn: Hams! Need help with CW/RTTY software for C64 or Apple II In-Reply-To: References: <200008310351.e7V3pHQ12391@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <200009010313.e813DC325932@grover.winsite.com> Hi, Gary. That would be perfect. I'm not interested in doing packet or amtor or anything like that. CW and good ol' Baudot RTTY. The CP-1, as it sits, has a TTL cable attached to it, with a plug on the end that should fit into a joystick port. There is an RS-232 option, but the components aren't installed on the pcb. However, the manual has a full schematic and a parts list, with the parts necessary for the RS-232 option marked. So, I suppose I could add them if necessary, but if I'm going to use the C=64, the current cable should do just fine. This might be a good opportunity to use the SX-64 I've got.... Actually, I've got a choice of two brown 64's as well, so I might just go with the standard and a regular monitor. I'm not going to be typing CW, so the slightly awkward keyboard shouldn't be a problem. Let me know how you want to do this. Thanks! 73, > I have a copy of Hamtext for the C=64 that might work, but it is only good > for Baudot and CW. None of the good stuff like clover or pactor. > > You might refresh my memory on the CP1 there. I can't remember if it is > TTL out, RS232 or both. I'd just use the TTL out as that is what the > software driven serial port is on the 64. > > If this doesn't pan out, I'd use an active filter for the single tone you > need for CW, rectify it and turn that DC level into something TTL would > like. > > > Regards > -- > Gary Hildebrand Paul Braun WD9GCO Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com From rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com Thu Aug 31 22:26:23 2000 From: rutledge at cx47646-a.phnx1.az.home.com (Shawn T. Rutledge) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: Attn: Hams! Need help with CW/RTTY software for C64 or Apple II In-Reply-To: ; from Gary Hildebrand on Thu, Aug 31, 2000 at 08:41:35AM -0600 References: <200008310351.e7V3pHQ12391@grover.winsite.com> Message-ID: <20000831202622.V5016@electron.quantum.int> On Thu, Aug 31, 2000 at 08:41:35AM -0600, Gary Hildebrand wrote: > I have a copy of Hamtext for the C=64 that might work, but it is only good > for Baudot and CW. None of the good stuff like clover or pactor. Can you actually do that stuff with a CP1? 'cause I got one too, I've never used it but got it cheap at a hamfest just in case I ever get my General...but I thought it could only do CW and RTTY. -- _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD ecloud@bigfoot.com (_ | |_) http://www.bigfoot.com/~ecloud kb7pwd@kb7pwd.ampr.org __) | | \________________________________________________________________ Get money for spare CPU cycles at http://www.ProcessTree.com/?sponsor=5903 From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Thu Aug 31 22:40:47 2000 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:57:17 2005 Subject: D'oh! Backup issue solved Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20000831204047.00990940@pop.sttl.uswest.net> Sometimes, the best answers are the most obvious. You may remember that, not long ago, I posted a blurb about having trouble backing up an old MFM drive in a 1990-vintage datascope. Specifically, that it's non-DOS format and on a proprietary controller. As I was copying the manuals for a different datascope this afternoon, the answer hit me like a lightning bolt, prompted by noticing that the pages I was copying at the time had to do with backing up the hard drive in a Digilog unit. "Maybe" I mused "the Interview 7500 has the same capability." Well, guess what? It did! It was not obvious because it was labeled "Copy Disk" instead of "Backup hard drive," but it most definitely allowed selecting the hard drive as the source and the floppy as the destination. Three 1.44 meg floppies later, I not only had a backup copy of the datascope's OS, but I also had it archived with Teledisk into long-term storage. The moral of the story is: If you run into a hard-drive operated datascope, or any other special device that has its own drive, never assume that said device has no backup routine of its very own! ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 (Extra class as of June-2K) "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..."