From spc at armigeron.com Wed Dec 1 18:46:32 1999 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:52 2005 Subject: Looking for...PC/104 Ethernet board In-Reply-To: <000701bf3b8c$1c55aba0$01c8a8c0@office1> from "Richard A. Cini" at Nov 30, 99 06:38:25 pm Message-ID: <199912010046.TAA26763@armigeron.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 763 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991130/2bd40a41/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 1 00:36:51 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:54 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <19991201063651.22925.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> I just got mail from a friend in Virginia who is saving a MicroVAX 3100-90 for me that they are pitching out where he works (and he'll *deliver*, too!) Where can I go to learn more about specific models of 3100s? He mentions that it has either 64 or 128Mb of RAM, a 500Mb and 1Gb scsi disk, DAT and an external tape that, from his descriptions, I'm assuming is a TLZ30 or similar. One minor catch - they filled the disk and it won't boot. I take it I can conversational-boot it and use the console as the startup file to wrest control from the system in the earliest stages, then, at least, purge the SYS$MANAGER area of old log files to leave enough room to perform a full boot (and clear the SYSTEM password while I'm at it ;-) Did I miss anything? Is there a publish procedure for recovering from totally full disks, or will I have to go back to the manuals and remember how to do it from scratch? I've been away from VMS for the past couple of years. All I've really done recently is log on and run some ancient DCL scripts. Now back in the old days, I used to assemble 11/730's from piles of parts, reconstruct console tapes, write system programs and devices drivers, etc., but never with anything newer than an 8530. Our "main" machines were an 11/750 w/12Mb RAM, SI9900, Fuji Eagle, RA81, etc., etc. and an 8300 w/16Mb RAM, KDB50, RA81, etc. No Ethernet; all 56Kb sync serial DECnet. :-P Cheers, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 1 00:40:56 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:55 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 2000 SCSI (was Re: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)) Message-ID: <19991201064056.29434.rocketmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> --- sms@antinode.org wrote: > Herr Moeller's PK2K SCSI port driver for the 2000 should help total storage, > but the firmware still needs an RDxx from which to boo Ah ha! A *real* reference to the elusive SCSI driver. Is there a web page for this? Thanks, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 1 00:57:46 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:55 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <19991201063651.22925.rocketmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Nov 30, 1999 10:36:51 PM Message-ID: <199912010657.WAA27264@shell1.aracnet.com> > I just got mail from a friend in Virginia who is saving a MicroVAX 3100-90 > for me that they are pitching out where he works (and he'll *deliver*, too!) > > Where can I go to learn more about specific models of 3100s? He mentions > that it has either 64 or 128Mb of RAM, a 500Mb and 1Gb scsi disk, DAT and > an external tape that, from his descriptions, I'm assuming is a TLZ30 or Check out http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq.html for a small amount of info. That is one SERIOUS system! Not quite the best in the 3100 family, but very close, only a handful of VAXen are faster and most that are BIG systems. > similar. One minor catch - they filled the disk and it won't boot. I take > it I can conversational-boot it and use the console as the startup file to > wrest control from the system in the earliest stages, then, at least, purge > the SYS$MANAGER area of old log files to leave enough room to perform a full > boot (and clear the SYSTEM password while I'm at it ;-) http://eisner.decus.org/vms/faq.htm As I recall, the procedure in the FAQ is the best for this. > Did I miss anything? Is there a publish procedure for recovering from totally > full disks, or will I have to go back to the manuals and remember how to do > it from scratch? I've been away from VMS for the past couple of years. All You might want to do a dejanews search. Somewhere either on USENET or maybe even here there was a discussion about this in the last couple of weeks. > I've really done recently is log on and run some ancient DCL scripts. Now > back in the old days, I used to assemble 11/730's from piles of parts, > reconstruct console tapes, write system programs and devices drivers, etc., but > never with anything newer than an 8530. Our "main" machines were an 11/750 That 8530, only 4 VUPs, the 3100/90 is 24 VUPs! I really hope I find that the 4000/90 works once I get the RAM for it that I'm waiting on. Currently my fastest VAXen are only 2.4 VUPs. Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 1 01:01:28 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:55 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 2000 SCSI (was Re: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)) In-Reply-To: <19991201064056.29434.rocketmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Nov 30, 1999 10:40:56 PM Message-ID: <199912010701.XAA27371@shell1.aracnet.com> > --- sms@antinode.org wrote: > > Herr Moeller's PK2K SCSI port driver for the 2000 should help total storage, > > but the firmware still needs an RDxx from which to boo Hmmm, what if said 2000 is part of a cluster and boots off a cluster disk, would you then be able to use a SCSI disk as a swap disk? As time progresses such a configuration would probably be the best to keep 2000's running. Zane From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Dec 2 01:48:49 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:55 2005 Subject: The good old days of tape players In-Reply-To: <0.d0999cb9.2576197d@aol.com> from "Glenatacme@aol.com" at Dec 1, 99 01:26:05 am Message-ID: <199912010748.XAA21852@saul9.u.washington.edu> > sites for the small computers I collect. Unfortunately there are groups in > the US which oppose this activity -- not because any of the program authors > are objecting at this late date -- but because these groups propose that > *any* form of emulation, or use of *alien* hardware, to run, store, or > transfer these programs is illegal and should be stopped. That's a broad claim. Do you have any details about who those groups are? I can see that whoever owns the rights to a program could object to the distribution of that program. Most don't (because the owner was a company that's out of business, or because the owner is a programmer that has given his consent, or because the owner doesn't know or care). But a few do. I may find it harsh but I basically respect it. The same goes for firmware which is required to run applications but is not an application. But to lay a blanket claim to large classes of old hardware and software? That's in the same league as manipulating the copyright laws to give oneself an advantage. So evidence (to back up this serious claim) would be very helpful. > Their reasoning is: if I never bought a ZX81, but I use a ZX81 emulator on my > PC to run ZX81 programs, then what is to stop me from using a Sony > Playstation emulator on my PC to avoid buying a Playstation? But they have to consider the specific hardware involved. See below. > My opinion is: the major game producers are afraid that if the public finds > out that for well under US$100 anyone with a PC and a modem can pick up an > "obsolete" computer and get 10,000 games, free, the new hot-rod game machines > might lose a few sales. And after you played a few of those games, you might go back to the Playstation! Or you might not. Suppose you are a game machine producer: I would think there's a certain group of people that would enjoy emulation. But they are probably not a strong market for your SuperDuperGamePlatform (tm) anyway. They would be inclined to do other things that erode your market anyway, like download freeware or program their own games. And I also would think there's a certain group of people that would reject emulation completely ("These games suck!") They would be a strong market base for you, and you don't have to worry about them. As you move away from this view, you start to manipulate your customers and take away their ability to choose rationally (OK, it happens, but I try to resist it and I think all knowledgeable people should do the same). I also have no sympathy for companies that adopt "security through obscurity". If they run into reverse engineering, that's fine with me. The rest of my position can wait for the next message. -- Derek P.S. Isn't economics fun? I can write phrases like "take away their ability to choose rationally" and get away with it. From ndiablo at diablonet.net Wed Dec 1 00:33:48 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:55 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <19991201063348.11813.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> I hooked up a uVAX 2000/VS 2000 issue external TK50-Z to my VS 3100 once to build a OpenVMS 7.2 hobbyist standalone backup kit and it worked great (to my pleasant surprise... wasn't sure if it would or not :) -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From Glenatacme at aol.com Wed Dec 1 00:26:05 1999 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:56 2005 Subject: The good old days of tape players Message-ID: <0.d0999cb9.2576197d@aol.com> Zane wrote: > Hmmm, do I understand that first part correctly that you're essentially > using the PC as a cassette recorder? That *REALLY* appeals to my sick sense > of humor. Now what machines do I have that can use cassette tapes.... :^) Well, you can still buy brand-new ZX81 kits for $49.95 . . . and the 16 KB RAM expansions are readily available for about US$5-10 ;>) Essentially, I use the PC as a device to transfer programs from FTP or Web sites to my small computers: download the program, send it out the sound card to a tape, then load that tape into the smaller computer. There are presently over 10,000 programs available -- all free -- on FTP/Web sites for the small computers I collect. Unfortunately there are groups in the US which oppose this activity -- not because any of the program authors are objecting at this late date -- but because these groups propose that *any* form of emulation, or use of *alien* hardware, to run, store, or transfer these programs is illegal and should be stopped. Their reasoning is: if I never bought a ZX81, but I use a ZX81 emulator on my PC to run ZX81 programs, then what is to stop me from using a Sony Playstation emulator on my PC to avoid buying a Playstation? My opinion is: the major game producers are afraid that if the public finds out that for well under US$100 anyone with a PC and a modem can pick up an "obsolete" computer and get 10,000 games, free, the new hot-rod game machines might lose a few sales. Regards, Glen Goodwin 0/0 From sms at antinode.org Wed Dec 1 00:53:13 1999 From: sms at antinode.org (sms@antinode.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 2000 SCSI (was Re: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)) Message-ID: <99120100531326@antinode.org> From: Ethan Dicks > > Herr Moeller's PK2K SCSI port driver for the 2000 should help total storage, > > but the firmware still needs an RDxx from which to boo > Ah ha! A *real* reference to the elusive SCSI driver. Is there a web page > for this? Try "http://ftp.gwdg.de/pub/vms/pk2k/". ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda (+1) 651-645-9249 (voice, home) 1630 Marshall Avenue #8 (+1) 612-754-2636 (voice, work) Saint Paul MN 55104-6225 (+1) 612-754-6302 (facsimile, work) sms@antinode.org sms@provis.com (work) From sms at antinode.org Wed Dec 1 01:04:01 1999 From: sms at antinode.org (sms@antinode.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:57 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 2000 SCSI (was Re: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)) Message-ID: <99120101040187@antinode.org> From: healyzh@aracnet.com > > --- sms@antinode.org wrote: > > > Herr Moeller's PK2K SCSI port driver for the 2000 should help total > > > storage, but the firmware still needs an RDxx from which to boot > > Hmmm, what if said 2000 is part of a cluster and boots off a cluster disk, > would you then be able to use a SCSI disk as a swap disk? I see not why not. Swap/page is just data. Booting is the only limitation of which I'm aware. Only one way to find out. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda (+1) 651-645-9249 (voice, home) 1630 Marshall Avenue #8 (+1) 612-754-2636 (voice, work) Saint Paul MN 55104-6225 (+1) 612-754-6302 (facsimile, work) sms@antinode.org sms@provis.com (work) From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Dec 1 06:32:14 1999 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:57 2005 Subject: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991130222809.009ab420@127.0.0.1> References: <3.0.5.32.19991128065208.007ad100@mail.wincom.net> <4.2.0.58.19991127154422.0227f2a0@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991201073214.007af7d0@mail.wincom.net> At 10:28 PM 11/30/1999 -0500, you wrote: > >Here in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan we have the worst air in the U.P. of >Michigan. It all comes from Sault, Ontario thanks to Algoma Steel, >Abitibi-Price Paper & the northern winds to bring it all across. > >Thankfully, we've had hydro-based power (water-spun turbines - great for >alleving those Y2K fears... ;-) since before 1900 - The Canadians finally >built a hydro plant a few years ago, too. > >I'm not saying Detroit doesn't suck - IMHO it does... Bad. Really bad. >*Really, Really Bad.* And I like Windsor - been there a couple times, and >it seemed really nice. > >And hopefully, *finally* those cold, northern winds that bring us so much >snow, might finally blow a Vax or two across the border to me... I'm still >waiting to see if there might be a few to snag. > >Just wanted to let you know that not *all* Michiganders are stinkin', >pollutin' bastards... ;-) > >Roger "Merch" Merchberger > >P.S. If most parts of Canada are powered by non-hydro-based means, why do >you call it a "hydro bill?" I always wondered that... >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > >If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead >disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > Right on, Roger. I wasn't trying to pin all the blame on you Yanks. We have a big smokestack, I think at Sudbury, that puffs polution from the nickel mine all the way to New York State. I think how the "hydro" thing got started was the use of power generators at Niagara Falls to supply most of Ontario with 25 cycle AC. (They didn't use much in those days- one 25 watt lamp in every room, no tv.) The smartest thing our government ever spent money on was to convert the whole mess over to 60 Hz after the war. Can you picture us trying to buy 25 Hz computers? Cheers Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 1 07:35:45 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:57 2005 Subject: VAXstation vs MicroVAX (was Re: dammit...) Message-ID: <199912011335.IAA28555@world.std.com> <> --- sms@antinode.org wrote: <> > Herr Moeller's PK2K SCSI port driver for the 2000 should help total sto <> > but the firmware still needs an RDxx from which to boo < <> Hmmm, what if said 2000 is part of a cluster and boots off a cluster disk <> would you then be able to use a SCSI disk as a swap disk? < < I see not why not. Swap/page is just data. Booting is the only >> Yes, the first 3100's had MFM controllers, and half-height MFM drives >> (RD31, RD32) in them. They also had a 34-pin floppy interface to a >> non-SCSI RX23. Then came models that had *both* MFM and SCSI interfaces. >> The latest ones had two SCSI interfaces, and used a SCSI-fied RX23 in >> them. > I've never seen anything more primitive than the ST506/SCSI >controller. Was there really a non-SCSI board before that? Yes. > Even the >earliest production ST506/SCSI boards in my experience lacked some or >all of the 20- and 34-pin connectors for the ST506 disks The non-SCSI disk controller is a ST506/SCSI board unpopulated in the *other* direction - it lacks the SCSI chip and connectors, but has the ST506 parts. There's a plain metal flange on the rear where the external SCSI connector would be. There are also, of course, 3100's without any disk controller in them at all. > The potential of DUA0 and DUA1 explains why the RX23 floppy is DUA2. >I always assumed that DUA3 would be the other half of an RX50, if it >were ever supported, but that was only an assumption. The firmware on >my 3100 systems seemed bewildered by an RX33, so I never bothered trying >an RX50. I never got around to trying that particular combination (though I did have a RX50 hooked to a VS2000 - it worked fine under VMS, but evidently the built-in firmware didn't like it.) >> True, the RX23 doesn't have a lot of use. You can't even (officially) >> build a standalone backup kit on it. > I modified the V6.2 STABACKIT to build a kit on (three) RX23 >floppies, but some older firmware couldn't handle booting from them. >V1.5 is good, possibly V1.4 also, as I recall. Faster booting than from >a TK50. (Toggle switches would be _about_ as fast as a TK50.) Even faster, build standalone backup on a hard drive :-). If you want to see slow, remember the process of building standalone backup on TU58's on a 11/750 or 11/730? We're talking most of a *day*! No wonder we've tried to erase those times from our memories :-). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Dec 1 08:09:38 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: The good old days of tape players In-Reply-To: <0.d0999cb9.2576197d@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991201080938.01b7b1f0@pc> At 01:26 AM 12/1/99 EST, Glenatacme@aol.com wrote: >Unfortunately there are groups in >the US which oppose this activity -- not because any of the program authors >are objecting at this late date -- but because these groups propose that >*any* form of emulation, or use of *alien* hardware, to run, store, or >transfer these programs is illegal and should be stopped. I think you're mixing two factions. Certainly a relatively great number of people are opposed to the free distribution of someone's copyright works without permission, and a much smaller (if any) are opposed to the creation of emulators. I've never heard of anyone complaining about the creation of an emulator. What they complain about is the redistribution of some company's ROM code to go along with the code that someone's written. I think it's important to respect copyright. Certainly the field of antique computers and the rapid evolution of this market causes copyright works to seem abandoned much more quickly than books, music or Mickey Mouse. We might soon be in a situation where the market demand for old software (running under emulation) exceeds the size of the original hardware-based market, and the world would be a better place if there was a mechanism for the creator of a 1980 game to be compensated for present-day renewed demand, just as the author of a book published in 1980 can still be paid for a new rush of sales or a Penguin reprint. - John From truthanl at oclc.org Wed Dec 1 09:08:40 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE1B@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> I have found that the Canadians call all thier electric power "hydro". The term is probably rooted in the early use of the Niagara escarpment for actual hydo-electric power. But, IMHO it definately puts "Clean Spin" on thier NOW heavy use of Nuclear power. To Americans, It seems inherent that Canadian water is pure. Hydro says "water" = pure. When in reality Canada runs a goodly risk of contaminating the Great Lakes. Fact: Canada has a huge nuke plant north of Kincardine Ont. on the Bruce Penninsula. Fact: Canada's largest Oil terminal and Refinery is on the St Mary's River in Sarnia Ont. Fact: The Canadians have a network of gas wells "under" their side of Lake Erie - east of Long Point. The wells actually break the surface of Lake Erie with White and Orange pipes about the size of Canadian Spar Bouys. Occasionally these gas wells are struck by ships & boats (coming in or out of the Welland Canal)during storms - and they do leak (I Monitored such a leak being checked out by the Canadian Coast Guard on Marine VHF July 1-3,1998, while at Sugarloaf Harbor in Port Colbourne.) To me, all of these are higher risks for water pollution throughout the Great Lakes Area. Yet, Canadians keep blasting the USA for Coal use causing acid rain. I guess its all in the way the wind blows, and who is monitoring the leaks, spills and resource quality. OTOH, I wonder how many computerised process controllers were/are used in Power generation. I had seen an internet report on the Perry Nuclear Plant(Port Clinton, Ohio,USA) recommending taking a microVAX offline for Y2K compliance sake. Ironic, I found this list while searching on MicroVAX as well. Sincerely Larry Truthan -----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger [mailto:zmerch@30below.com] Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 10:28 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? ... Charles E. Fox may have mentioned these words: > Here in Windsor, Ontario, we have some of the worst air in Canada. Most of >it comes from Michigan and Ohio on the westerly winds. > (Snip) Here in Sault Ste. Marie, Michigan we have the worst air in the U.P. of Michigan. It all comes from Sault, Ontario thanks to Algoma Steel, Abitibi-Price Paper & the northern winds to bring it all across. Thankfully, we've had hydro-based power (water-spun turbines - great for alleving those Y2K fears... ;-) since before 1900 - The Canadians finally built a hydro plant a few years ago, too. ...If most parts of Canada are powered by non-hydro-based means, why do you call it a "hydro bill?" I always wondered that... -- From pat at transarc.ibm.com Wed Dec 1 09:49:36 1999 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Antique Trader In-Reply-To: <38431C7F.9A5B0C94@banet.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 29 Nov 1999 wpe101@banet.net wrote: > I found a copy of the article via www.csmonline/antiquetrader/news.html > (you must register with them for access). Great reading! > > Will > > > Steve Robertson wrote: > > > > Someone in my office brought in a clip from "Antique Trader" dated Nov 10, > > 1999. Featured in this rag was "An Introduction to Collecting Computers" by > > our fellow collector Kevin Stumpf. Maybe someone could forward a copy to the list (or to me)? I don't really feel comfortable providing all the info they ask for, especially since it seems to be going through some data collection service which isn't under their control. --Pat. From arfonrg at texas.net Wed Dec 1 10:03:59 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991130184532.009750f0@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991201100359.009bd020@207.207.0.212> First, Thanks to all who have helped so far... I have some old modems (TRS-80, acoustic and etc.) which I would like to use (flashing LEDs are cool) so, I want to build a little telco emulator to interface with the modems in one of my Linux boxes. I figure an LM556 for the dial tone... A tone decoder for dialing... Not sure an easy way to decode pulse dialing. As for ring... I am thinking using two charged capacitors and switching them. That's the first method I came up with to limit the current cheaply. Any suggestions? I'd like to do this for less that $25.00. ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From truthanl at oclc.org Wed Dec 1 10:15:49 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE1C@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Allison,or Anyone I recently got my MicroVAX I up and running it's MicroVMS 4.1 I listed devices and have an RD52 as DUA0. and an RX50 as DUA1 and DUA2 I did not see any directory commands to tell how much disk space is used/available. Are there any? Nor did I see any FORMAT command. (Which at this point I want to AVOID, because I don't understand the Backup process or target backup media capacity constraints. It sounds like backup clones the OS on the same drive in "renewed" and/or "rebuilt" files ) According to Allison's prior post, should I assume this RD52 is a 30MB MFM non SCSI drive? I also have a Plessy 6600/6700 system which has a 84MB-90MB drive which I think hangs on a DEC compatible SCSI controller. (I believe the Plessy is an LSI-11/34 clone.)The Plessy also has a Cipher F880 1600 bpi 9-track tape drive connected. Is there a chance I could Load the Hobby openVMS on either one, or both of these systems in a cluster? It seems to me the more capable system would be the Plessy with larger HD and Tape Unit already installed, (However I have never booted it, and I have no Idea what OS currently resides on it.) I believe someone gave an earlier response that the MicroVAX I was too small to run openVMS alone. Sincelely Larry Truthan -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent [mailto:allisonp@world.std.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 8:36 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <38454ACD.C6C207EE@mainecoon.com> Glenatacme@aol.com wrote: [snip] > Their reasoning is: if I never bought a ZX81, but I use a ZX81 emulator on my > PC to run ZX81 programs, then what is to stop me from using a Sony > Playstation emulator on my PC to avoid buying a Playstation? > > My opinion is: the major game producers are afraid that if the public finds > out that for well under US$100 anyone with a PC and a modem can pick up an > "obsolete" computer and get 10,000 games, free, the new hot-rod game machines > might lose a few sales. Wellll, it turns out I have some insight into this. Until about 18 months ago I was director of special projects for TAEC, a division of Toshiba. One of the things which fell into my lap was developing the methodology for and directing the actual verification effort for what was then called the TX5900; the 5900 is the superscalar 128-bit core for CPU2, which in turn is the processor for the Playstation II. As a consequence of this position I have some insight into the thinking at SCE... One of the first things I learned was that "normal" assumptions regarding economics associated with game consoles don't work. SCE more or less gave the PS1 away and will do the same with the PS2; at some points in the lifetime of the product the wholesale price is less than the manufacturing cost. The money is made on the titles, not on the individual consoles, and hence SCE has a motivation to see that as many copies of titles are shipped without copies being bootlegged. In a somewhat misguided attempt to control that SCE indulged in a bit of idiocy with the PS1 in the hopes of preventing people from making copies of the code. The economics changed somewhat as the PS1 reached end-of-life and the production cost of the PS1 had fallen somewhat (such that some miniscule amount of money was being netted out on console sales), but SCE's objections to PS1 emulators were rooted not in the potential loss of such revenue, but rather in the need to duplicate SCE code contained in the PS1 console ROM. As for PC's eating into PS2 sales, don't hold your breath. When you can buy a PC with a 128-bit reconfigurable integer CPU with 10 floating point units organized into two vector processors, synchronous rambus, a dedicated rendering engine, ethernet, 56K modem, DVD drive and sound for $300 (they also throw a PS1 chipset into the box, since the PS2 chipset cannot run PS1 code) then SCE will find themselves in the same position they were in 12 months ago. But then I'd expect the PS3 to be in the works by then ;-) -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Wed Dec 1 09:29:36 1999 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 2000 SCSI (was Re: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different)) Message-ID: <01JIZDPX8HPU935H6U@cc.usu.edu> > I see not why not. Swap/page is just data. Booting is the only >limitation of which I'm aware. Only one way to find out. BTW, Herr Moeller also has a ROM patch which allows booting from a SCSI disk. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 1 10:31:10 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <19991201163110.24817.rocketmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> --- Allison J Parent wrote: > > > Thats a nice VAX!. I forget the URL of where to find vax performance > numbers. I was told 24 VUPs. Wahoo! > > Never hard of that problem. I suspect soemthing else has happend. From wpe101 at banet.net Wed Dec 1 10:31:55 1999 From: wpe101 at banet.net (wpe101@banet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... References: <3.0.3.32.19991130184532.009750f0@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: <38454D7B.96286BDE@banet.net> An excellent source for telco related stuff is the newsgroup comp.dcom.telecom Will From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 1 10:27:10 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) References: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE1C@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Message-ID: <99120111313306.21151@vault.neurotica.com> On Wed, 01 Dec 1999, Truthan,Larry wrote: >I did not see any directory commands to tell how much disk space is >used/available. Are there any? $ dir/free >Nor did I see any FORMAT command. (Which at this point I want to AVOID, >because I don't understand the Backup process or target backup media >capacity constraints. It sounds like backup clones the OS on the same drive >in "renewed" and/or "rebuilt" files ) $ initialize ... >According to Allison's prior post, should I assume this RD52 is a 30MB MFM >non SCSI drive? About 35mb, actually. It's a Quantum Q540. Great drive. >I also have a Plessy 6600/6700 system which has a 84MB-90MB drive which I >think hangs on a DEC compatible SCSI controller. >(I believe the Plessy is an LSI-11/34 clone.)The Plessy also has a Cipher >F880 1600 bpi 9-track tape drive connected. LSI-11/34...you mean 11/23? >Is there a chance I could Load the Hobby openVMS on either one, or both of >these systems in a cluster? Not on the Plessy system...if it is indeed an LSI-11 based system, it's not a VAX, it's a PDP11. Entirely different kind of system. But really wonderfully cool in its own right! :-) The MicroVAX-I should run the hobbyist distribution of VMS just fine. >I believe someone gave an earlier response that the MicroVAX I was too >small to run openVMS alone. It will be painful, yes, but I know of no reason why it wouldn't run. Anyone else? -Dave McGuire From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Dec 1 10:39:49 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991201100359.009bd020@207.207.0.212> References: <3.0.3.32.19991130184532.009750f0@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991201103949.01b8bbe0@pc> At 10:03 AM 12/1/99 -0600, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: >I have some old modems (TRS-80, acoustic and etc.) which I would like to >use (flashing LEDs are cool) so, I want to build a little telco emulator to >interface with the modems in one of my Linux boxes. You'd think it would be easy, and you think someone out there would have done it already. I wanted to do this once upon a time. It would seem like a great project for an old PC, a parallel port, a few junk-box relays and maybe a sound card. I think I mentioned this idea on this list a year or two ago, and Sellam (apparently a telco wizard) thought it could get complicated. - John From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Wed Dec 1 09:40:31 1999 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <01JIZDW6GI0O935H6U@cc.usu.edu> >I recently got my MicroVAX I up and running it's MicroVMS 4.1 >Is there a chance I could Load the Hobby openVMS on either one, or both of >these systems in a cluster? I would be surprised. I pulled back a bloody stump the last time I mentioned the MicroVAX I to the VMS guys. My original design concept for the Firefox QBus Adapter Module involved having a dual-ported memory between the MBus and the QBus. The device drivers would copy data to and from this memory before or after performing DMA, as appropriate. This would have worked nicely and provided acceptable performance. However, I made the mistake of describing the arrangement to VMS people as "just like the MicroVAX I"; since the MicroVAX I doesn't have a scatter/gather map, the device driver has to do this to cover that lack. I was rudely informed that VMS no longer supported the MicroVAX I, and good riddance. So, the FQAM wound up being a really ugly and slow QBus adapter that worked much more like the traditional QBus adapter. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 1 10:42:42 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: VAXstation vs MicroVAX (was Re: dammit...) Message-ID: <19991201164242.13799.rocketmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> --- Allison J Parent wrote: I wrote: > > ...a MicroVAX 2000 would have many users, possibly on > > the rare and optional 8-port serial expansion > you forgot the 3 port adaptor, maybe you meant that. they are uncommon but > rare is not quite true. With that adaptor you have 3 MMJ serial ports and > the already present 25pin comm serial. I have one and it's handy. I didn't mention it, but yes, there is the three-port MMJ adapter. I have one or two. The max ports on a MicroVAX 2000 is indeed 12. The DEC hot sheets specifically mention that if you want more ports, you must go to an Ethernet-based product. That's how I got my first uVAX-2000 - a local law firm was looking at expanding their arrangement past ten users and a printer. I was brought in to spec an upgrade. When they saw the price, they switched to a Novell network (which is why my friend brought me in; he sold them the network). I was offered the system and I gave them a salvage price on it and ten VT-320's. They were horrified at the size of my offer and said that they could get a better deal somewhere else. A year later they called me back and asked if I still wanted it. I dropped the offer to lower than half of what it was previously and they accepted. Upon picking up the system, I drove across town, sold the terminals to a friend's company for 90% of the price of the lot and took home the VAX. I got an RD54, a 6Mb MicroVAX, a TK50Z-FA, the DHT32 serial adapter and an expansion box with RD53 for well under $100 (at the same time period, a refurbed RD54 was going for $500 from the resellers). I put Ultrix on it and used it for Unix practice and as a faux-terminal server. I had this project to mount the guts in a monsterous AT case so that there was room for both RD drives in the same package (two power supplies), but I never finished it. I'll probably put all the stuff back in the original boxes when I work that far down the pile. One problem I ran across with this particular box - the TK50 drive would munch tapes - the problem turned out to be the molex connectors on the drive motor cables. They would intermittently fail and the tape would spin freely in the drive or wouldn't energize to retract the tape. I lost more than one tape that way. I never did fix that drive - it's still awaiting new connectors. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Wed Dec 1 09:43:34 1999 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <01JIZE73DQXQ935H6U@cc.usu.edu> > And speaking of TK50, for the record, the external SCSI version is a >TK50Z-FA (approved for the VAXstation/MicroVAX 2000) or a TK50Z-GA >(newer firmware, external SCSI ID switch). I tried a -FA on a VAX 4200 >with a KZQSA SCSI board long ago, and I use one on my VAXsta 3138 now, >and have never had a problem. Has anyone actually had a problem using a >-FA in a modern environment? (That's "modern" compared to a 2000, of >course.) I had difficulty with the MicroVAX 2000 version of the TK50 when I used it on a Firefox. When using the tape, the disks would all go into mount verify. I assumed that the problem was the tape drive didn't know about disconnect, but I never verified this. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 1 10:52:01 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... Message-ID: <003001bf3c1c$64411180$0400c0a8@winbook> Decoding the pulse dialing should be easy enough. If you consider what the mechanism was 40 years ago, i.e. the mechanical central office, with stepping relays which responded to the pulses created by your telephone, it will become obvious that what each number did was drive a stepping relay which selected which bank of relays would be the destination of the next stream of pulses. If you count the pulses, which wil be at either 10 or 20 Hz, depending on the age of the telephone generating them, you'll get the number dialed. count/time the pulses. When one pulse is missing or 10 have been accumulated, go to the next digit ... Certain digits have special meanings, i.e. starting with a '1' meant it should expect a 10-digit number instead of a 7-digit one. A '0' also had special meaning, didn't it? If you poke around in some of the older National Semiconductor data books, there are plenty of circuits which they no longer sell which show details of how many of these functions are created, including the DTMF decoding, etc. EXAR and Signetics published lots of examples also. It's no coincidence that they all sold PLL components. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 9:07 AM Subject: Re: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... >First, Thanks to all who have helped so far... > > >I have some old modems (TRS-80, acoustic and etc.) which I would like to >use (flashing LEDs are cool) so, I want to build a little telco emulator to >interface with the modems in one of my Linux boxes. > >I figure an LM556 for the dial tone... A tone decoder for dialing... Not >sure an easy way to decode pulse dialing. > >As for ring... I am thinking using two charged capacitors and switching >them. That's the first method I came up with to limit the current cheaply. > >Any suggestions? I'd like to do this for less that $25.00. >---------------------------------------- > Tired of Micro$oft??? > > Move up to a REAL OS... >######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # >#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## >####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### >###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### >##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### ># ###### > ("LINUX" for those of you > without fixed-width fonts) >---------------------------------------- >Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com > >Slackware Mailing List: >http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 1 10:54:17 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... Message-ID: <003301bf3c1c$b5696f80$0400c0a8@winbook> One other thing . . . you may find that the easiest way in which to do what you've described is to use a single-chip micro. There are some which even have special features to help you. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 9:07 AM Subject: Re: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... >First, Thanks to all who have helped so far... > > >I have some old modems (TRS-80, acoustic and etc.) which I would like to >use (flashing LEDs are cool) so, I want to build a little telco emulator to >interface with the modems in one of my Linux boxes. > >I figure an LM556 for the dial tone... A tone decoder for dialing... Not >sure an easy way to decode pulse dialing. > >As for ring... I am thinking using two charged capacitors and switching >them. That's the first method I came up with to limit the current cheaply. > >Any suggestions? I'd like to do this for less that $25.00. >---------------------------------------- > Tired of Micro$oft??? > > Move up to a REAL OS... >######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # >#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## >####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### >###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### >##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### ># ###### > ("LINUX" for those of you > without fixed-width fonts) >---------------------------------------- >Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com > >Slackware Mailing List: >http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 1 10:47:19 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) References: <01JIZDW6GI0O935H6U@cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: <99120111482407.21151@vault.neurotica.com> On Wed, 01 Dec 1999, Roger Ivie wrote: >My original design concept for the Firefox QBus Adapter Module involved >having a dual-ported memory between the MBus and the QBus. The device >drivers would copy data to and from this memory before or after performing >DMA, as appropriate. This would have worked nicely and provided acceptable >performance. However, I made the mistake of describing the arrangement >to VMS people as "just like the MicroVAX I"; since the MicroVAX I doesn't >have a scatter/gather map, the device driver has to do this to cover that Yuck. >lack. I was rudely informed that VMS no longer supported the MicroVAX I, >and good riddance. Oh my. I am sadly misinformed, then. I apologize. I hadn't heard about the removal of -I support. >So, the FQAM wound up being a really ugly and slow QBus adapter that worked >much more like the traditional QBus adapter. Bummer... -Dave McGuire From mdalene at home.ctol.net Wed Dec 1 04:34:44 1999 From: mdalene at home.ctol.net (B'ichela) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: C-64 Comms program In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991130080440.0100e150@pc> Message-ID: On Tue, 30 Nov 1999, John Foust wrote: > At 11:07 PM 11/29/99 -0500, LordTyran wrote: > >I have a lovely C-64 with 1541 disk drive and original Commodore 300 baud > >modem.. but no software for the modem. > > I've considered making a cable to write with the drive on > >my linux box but it's just not worth the effort. > > No, it would be worth the effort to make the cable that connects > the 1541 to your PC. :-) > > "If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you show > a man the Internet, he won't bother you for a few weeks." > > - John > How do you hook a Commodore Disk drive to a Linux Based 486? what software drivers for Linux do you need? I have one Commodore 1571 sitting around here, in Addition to a Okimate-120 dot matrix printer. A pearl of wisdom from the y2K newsgroups: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Y2K appears to be the Baby Boomers mid-life crisis, and it has the potential to be a dandy. -- Anonymnous -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------- B'ichela From dylanb at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 1 09:52:06 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Game economics (was Re: The good old days of tape players) Message-ID: <001701bf3c14$04ab2240$7a73e2d1@default> -----Original Message----- From: Chris Kennedy To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 11:23 AM Subject: OT: Game economics (was Re: The good old days of tape players) >Glenatacme@aol.com wrote: > >[snip] > >> Their reasoning is: if I never bought a ZX81, but I use a ZX81 emulator on my >> PC to run ZX81 programs, then what is to stop me from using a Sony >> Playstation emulator on my PC to avoid buying a Playstation? >> >> My opinion is: the major game producers are afraid that if the public finds >> out that for well under US$100 anyone with a PC and a modem can pick up an >> "obsolete" computer and get 10,000 games, free, the new hot-rod game machines >> might lose a few sales. > > >Wellll, it turns out I have some insight into this. Until about 18 months ago >I was director of special projects for TAEC, a division of Toshiba. One of >the things which fell into my lap was developing the methodology for and >directing the actual verification effort for what was then called the TX5900; >the 5900 is the superscalar 128-bit core for CPU2, which in turn is the >processor for the Playstation II. As a consequence of this position I have some >insight into the thinking at SCE... > >One of the first things I learned was that "normal" assumptions regarding >economics associated with game consoles don't work. SCE more or less gave >the PS1 away and will do the same with the PS2; at some points in the lifetime >of the product the wholesale price is less than the manufacturing cost. The >money is made on the titles, not on the individual consoles, and hence SCE >has a motivation to see that as many copies of titles are shipped without >copies being bootlegged. In a somewhat misguided attempt to control that >SCE indulged in a bit of idiocy with the PS1 in the hopes of preventing >people from making copies of the code. > >The economics changed somewhat as the PS1 reached end-of-life and the >production cost of the PS1 had fallen somewhat (such that some >miniscule amount of money was being netted out on console sales), but >SCE's objections to PS1 emulators were rooted not in the potential loss >of such revenue, but rather in the need to duplicate SCE code contained >in the PS1 console ROM. > >As for PC's eating into PS2 sales, don't hold your breath. When you can >buy a PC with a 128-bit reconfigurable integer CPU with 10 floating point >units organized into two vector processors, synchronous rambus, a dedicated >rendering engine, ethernet, 56K modem, DVD drive and sound for $300 >(they also throw a PS1 chipset into the box, since the PS2 chipset >cannot run PS1 code) then SCE will find themselves in the same position >they were in 12 months ago. But then I'd expect the PS3 to be in the >works by then ;-) >-- Very well put! john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com >Chris Kennedy >chris@mainecoon.com >http://www.mainecoon.com >PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 > From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Dec 1 11:14:12 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: C-64 Comms program In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19991130080440.0100e150@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991201111412.01ba2580@pc> At 05:34 AM 12/1/99 -0500, B'ichela wrote: > How do you hook a Commodore Disk drive to a Linux Based 486? what >software drivers for Linux do you need? I have one Commodore 1571 sitting >around here, in Addition to a Okimate-120 dot matrix printer. The world of C-64 users is far more active than this little mailing list. There is a standard type of cable used by several programs (Linux and Windows and DOS, as I recall) that links a CBM disk drive to a PC. It may not become just another device under Linux, but I'm sure there are several tools that let you access (copy and write) files. Here are some links to get you started. Have fun! - John From peter at joules0.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 11:13:52 1999 From: peter at joules0.demon.co.uk (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Amstrad CPC 6128 Floppy problem In-Reply-To: References: <2yfEOAA70uQ4Ew97@joules0.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: In article , Tony Duell writes >> >These drives are well-known for suffering from drive belt problems, which >> >of course results in the motor spinning but the disk not turning. Could >> >that be the problem with your drive? >> >> Thanks Tony, I will put a bit of paint on the motor spindle to see if >> that is moving. > >Or just carefully touch it with the drive in operation (it's not going to >be powerful enough to hurt you..) > The motor doesn't move so plan B >> As a point of interest, are these the same drives which are used in >> either the PCW8256 or the PCW9512? IIRC one is single sided and the >> other double. > >According to the PCW manuals : > >The 8256 originally had 1 drive. An FD1, which is single-head 40 track >(flip the disk over by hand). This is the same drive as in the CPCs > I have taken a known working drive out of a PCW and that doesn't spin up either. In both cases the LED which looks through the hole in the middle of the disk comes on and the LED on the front flashes briefly as the machine tries to access the drive. I suppose the next step is to check the voltages on the supply. There are 4 wires 1 red, one orange, and 2 black. Do you know what voltages are supposed to be on each, and relative to what? -- Regards Pete From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 1 11:47:20 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <199912011747.MAA11699@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, John Foust wrote: > I think you're mixing two factions. Certainly a relatively great > number of people are opposed to the free distribution of someone's > copyright works without permission, and a much smaller (if any) > are opposed to the creation of emulators. I've never heard of > anyone complaining about the creation of an emulator. What > they complain about is the redistribution of some company's > ROM code to go along with the code that someone's written. 17 years ago, when I wrote XenoCopy, Some folk [who may not have fully represented the corporation] at Intertec (Superbrain) told me that they would sue me if I included the Superbrain format in XenoCopy! They felt quite strongly that the ONLY possible reason why anybody could ever want to transfer files to a different format would be to steal their proprietary software!?! Such as "FORMAT"? or maybe "PIP"? Needless to say, addition of the Superbrain formats became my highest priority. But they never kept their promise to provide me with free ink in the trade journals. BTW, the Superbrain formats are especially hard to transfer reliably, partially due to several weirdnesses, and the difficulty on the 765 of reading anything that is too close after Index. > I think it's important to respect copyright. Certainly the field > of antique computers and the rapid evolution of this market causes > copyright works to seem abandoned much more quickly than books, > music or Mickey Mouse. On the other end of the scale, I have encountered people who insisted that works became public domain the instant that they ceased to be commercially available (which seemed to mean that they couldn't find them in a good 5 minutes of looking - such as a changed address or telephone number) -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 From dmb at itasoftware.com Wed Dec 1 12:07:52 1999 From: dmb at itasoftware.com (Dave Baggett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Looking for Heath H89 software and some advice Message-ID: <011901bf3c26$fd997660$0903a8c0@itasoftware.com> Dwight Elvey wrote: >Before anyone can help you, you need to find out if the >drive is soft or hard sectored. Dwight (and Tony), thanks for the info. It looks like both machines have only a hard sector (H17) controller. All the disks I have are hard sector disks. It's a bit mysterious why none of the HDOS disks will boot, but the CP/M disks will. I would suspect bit rot, but when I check out the CP/M format disks, they *all* seem to read fine. I wonder if it has to do with the drive's rotational speed? I'd like to calibrate it, but I'm afraid doing so might destroy the disk I put in there. BTW, is there any place left that sells hard sector floppy disks? Or perhaps the CP/M file system had more error correction, and thus CP/M is better able to recover flaky disks? These disks are all 20 years old now, after all... Dave From jallain at databaseamerica.com Wed Dec 1 12:36:30 1999 From: jallain at databaseamerica.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991201100359.009bd020@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: <000001bf3c2a$fcb2c310$0e0301ac@dba00802.databaseamerica.com> Arfon said (on Wednesday, December 01, 1999 11:04 AM): > I want to build a little telco emulator . . . If you want to save time. . . A few months ago I broke down and paid the man $125 for this device: http://www.vikingelectronics.com/products/linesimulator/dle-200b.html through one of the pricey test equipment catalog companies. It's expensive but sets up in No time and does its job well. Probably can be found cheaper somewhere. I opened it up when I got it. Think they used a PIC. It figures. If you don't want to save time. . . If you haven't heard of the MicroChip PIC then there's another place to look. I just peeked at http://www.microchip.com but didn't find this Application quickly. JEA From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Dec 1 13:02:07 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Amstrad CPC 6128 Floppy problem In-Reply-To: Peter Joules "Re: Amstrad CPC 6128 Floppy problem" (Dec 1, 17:13) References: <2yfEOAA70uQ4Ew97@joules0.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <9912011902.ZM25046@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 1, 17:13, Peter Joules wrote: > The motor doesn't move so plan B > I have taken a known working drive out of a PCW and that doesn't spin up > either. In both cases the LED which looks through the hole in the > middle of the disk comes on and the LED on the front flashes briefly as > the machine tries to access the drive. > > I suppose the next step is to check the voltages on the supply. There > are 4 wires 1 red, one orange, and 2 black. Do you know what voltages > are supposed to be on each, and relative to what? Sounds like the +5V which powers the drive logic is OK, and the +12V for the motor is AWOL. The black wires are the 0V returns for the two supplies, and IIRC red is +5V and orange is +12V. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From awcl at awcoldstream.com Wed Dec 1 13:12:41 1999 From: awcl at awcoldstream.com (awcl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... References: <3.0.3.32.19991130184532.009750f0@207.207.0.212> <3.0.5.32.19991201103949.01b8bbe0@pc> Message-ID: <38457329.6C61891B@awcoldstream.com> Hi! TRS-80 is the one of the early computers that could generate two frequencies at once. You will have to write a small basic program and need a amplifier to connect the tones to the line. It is not complicate thing to do. All you need is get a Basic programming manual for TRS-80 and look for tone generating section. If I recall correct these tones have different timings. 2600HZ for CCITT-5 is about 300ms and others ~200ms. Hope this helps awc John Foust wrote: > > At 10:03 AM 12/1/99 -0600, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > >I have some old modems (TRS-80, acoustic and etc.) which I would like to > >use (flashing LEDs are cool) so, I want to build a little telco emulator to > >interface with the modems in one of my Linux boxes. > > You'd think it would be easy, and you think someone out there would > have done it already. I wanted to do this once upon a time. It would > seem like a great project for an old PC, a parallel port, a few > junk-box relays and maybe a sound card. I think I mentioned this > idea on this list a year or two ago, and Sellam (apparently a telco > wizard) thought it could get complicated. > > - John From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 1 13:10:53 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE1C@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Message-ID: >I believe someone gave an earlier response that the MicroVAX I was too >small to run openVMS alone. Well, you're not as bad off as I was thinking, must have been mixing you up with a VAX-11/725. I just pulled up the SPD for OpenVMS http://www.digital.com/info/SP2501/SP2501HM.HTM (beware, it's 122 pages). It turns out the last version to support the MV I was actually V6.2, though you can't run DECwindows Motif. The OpenVMS Hobbyist PAKs are actually good for *ANY* version of VMS, however, the only version that's easy to obtain is V7.2 on CD-ROM. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 1 12:48:21 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Obsolete media (was: Whats the screwiest thing you collect?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991130233908.00972100@127.0.0.1> (message from Roger Merchberger on Tue, 30 Nov 1999 23:39:08 -0500) References: <3.0.1.32.19991130233908.00972100@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <19991201184821.24745.qmail@brouhaha.com> Roger wrote: > Of course, I'd rather have 3490 cartridges & drive... they're even > more cool. I can't *afford* the drives (new) and there's no used ones about > to scavange / rescue / trade for, so 'll take what I can get... I've got a few used Fujitsu SCSI 3490 drives. I'm open to serious offers, but I'm not going to give them away. They're perfectly fine drives if you *need* to deal with 3490 tapes, but I don't recommend them for general use. If 3490 compatability isn't a requirement, you're much better off with a new DDS-4 drive or a DLT drive. From kla at helios.augustana.edu Wed Dec 1 13:17:48 1999 From: kla at helios.augustana.edu (Kevin L. Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Data Media Conversion -- commercial interest? Message-ID: A quick pair of questions to the list out of curiosity: Do you think there is much data out there on older storage media (paper tape, punch cards, 7-track tape, 9-track tape) that is waiting to be converted to newer (cd-rom, 8mm) media? Are there commercial firms that specialize in such transfers/ conversions of data from older media to newer media? Regards, Kevin Anderson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kevin L. Anderson Ph.D., Geography Department, Augustana College Rock Island, Illinois 61201-2296, USA phone: (309) 794-7325 e-mail: kla@helios.augustana.edu -or- gganderson@augustana.edu * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent the administration of Augustana College. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 1 12:52:24 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991201100359.009bd020@207.207.0.212> (message from Arfon Gryffydd on Wed, 01 Dec 1999 10:03:59 -0600) References: <3.0.3.32.19991201100359.009bd020@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: <19991201185224.24793.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I have some old modems (TRS-80, acoustic and etc.) which I would like to > use (flashing LEDs are cool) so, I want to build a little telco emulator to > interface with the modems in one of my Linux boxes. Circuit Cellar ran a series of articles on doing this sort of stuff; they outlined the design of a simple mini-PBX, and gave sample schematics of portions of it. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 1 13:22:04 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: OT: Game economics (was Re: The good old days of tape players) In-Reply-To: <38454ACD.C6C207EE@mainecoon.com> References: <0.d0999cb9.2576197d@aol.com> Message-ID: >As for PC's eating into PS2 sales, don't hold your breath. When you can >buy a PC with a 128-bit reconfigurable integer CPU with 10 floating point >units organized into two vector processors, synchronous rambus, a dedicated >rendering engine, ethernet, 56K modem, DVD drive and sound for $300 >(they also throw a PS1 chipset into the box, since the PS2 chipset >cannot run PS1 code) then SCE will find themselves in the same position >they were in 12 months ago. But then I'd expect the PS3 to be in the >works by then ;-) >-- >Chris Kennedy >chris@mainecoon.com >http://www.mainecoon.com >PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 The Playstation has another added benifit. You buy it, and you buy the games. Sure you might buy some additional controllers, but there really aren't any upgrades. The Playstation I bought two years ago plays todays games. How many of todays games does that PC bought two years ago play well? Of course neither platform really has any good US-Soviet land based Strategy games, though that should change very soon. Which reminds me, gotta go check on TacOps... Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Dec 1 13:47:13 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Data Media Conversion -- commercial interest? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991201114713.00950de0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 13:17 01-12-1999 -0600, you wrote: >A quick pair of questions to the list out of curiosity: > >Do you think there is much data out there on older storage >media (paper tape, punch cards, 7-track tape, 9-track tape) >that is waiting to be converted to newer (cd-rom, 8mm) media? Probably quite a bit, yes. >Are there commercial firms that specialize in such transfers/ >conversions of data from older media to newer media? Yes indeed. In fact, I run one. ;-) (SHAMELESS PLUG ALERT) www.bluefeathertech.com/media.html for details. HOWEVER -- if it's just a minor job for a fellow listmember/classic computer user, like copying a distro tape or writing a NetBSD load onto some oddball media, I typically don't charge anything other than shipping, or I give a big fat discount on my published rates. Others have done the same for me, and I certainly don't see any reason not to do it for others. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From dylanb at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 1 12:42:28 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Data Media Conversion -- commercial interest? Message-ID: <005301bf3c2b$d1886360$7a73e2d1@default> -----Original Message----- From: Kevin L. Anderson To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:19 PM Subject: Data Media Conversion -- commercial interest? >A quick pair of questions to the list out of curiosity: > >Do you think there is much data out there on older storage >media (paper tape, punch cards, 7-track tape, 9-track tape) >that is waiting to be converted to newer (cd-rom, 8mm) media? > >Are there commercial firms that specialize in such transfers/ >conversions of data from older media to newer media? > In Ontario, Canada there is. Inside the government there are *still* some old boxes using 9 track. We have to ship them out and get them converted every so often. I know there are quite a few places that still accept 9 track tape data(even some banks). john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com >Regards, >Kevin Anderson > >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * >Kevin L. Anderson Ph.D., Geography Department, Augustana College > Rock Island, Illinois 61201-2296, USA phone: (309) 794-7325 >e-mail: kla@helios.augustana.edu -or- gganderson@augustana.edu >* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > Opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent > the administration of Augustana College. > > From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Dec 1 13:59:10 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: OT: Game economics (was Re: The good old days of tape players) In-Reply-To: References: <0.d0999cb9.2576197d@aol.com> <38454ACD.C6C207EE@mainecoon.com> Message-ID: <19991201135910.B11280@mrbill.net> On Wed, Dec 01, 1999 at 11:22:04AM -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > The Playstation has another added benifit. You buy it, and you buy the > games. Sure you might buy some additional controllers, but there really > aren't any upgrades. The Playstation I bought two years ago plays todays > games. How many of todays games does that PC bought two years ago play > well? > Of course neither platform really has any good US-Soviet land based > Strategy games, though that should change very soon. Which reminds me, > gotta go check on TacOps... > Zane What I'm surprised at is the *longevity* of the platform. I saw my first Playstation in '95, and finally gave up and bought my own (heh) about three months ago. TONS of games are still being actively developed for the platform (its still a major porting candidate), and I dont see it dying anytime soon. What I need, tho, are just some good old-fashioned "blow stuff up" games. I'd kill for a port of Ikari Warriors with that 8-position twistable controller/joystick... Bill -- Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using Windows NT for mission-critical applications." -- What Yoda *meant* to say From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 12:59:38 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Amstrad CPC 6128 Floppy problem In-Reply-To: from "Peter Joules" at Dec 1, 99 05:13:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1783 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991201/af8b6f05/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 13:30:51 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Looking for Heath H89 software and some advice In-Reply-To: <011901bf3c26$fd997660$0903a8c0@itasoftware.com> from "Dave Baggett" at Dec 1, 99 10:07:52 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1884 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991201/62ceaddd/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 1 14:37:51 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... Message-ID: <19991201203751.28598.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> --- Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > First, Thanks to all who have helped so far... > I have some old modems (TRS-80, acoustic and etc.) which I would like to > use (flashing LEDs are cool) so, I want to build a little telco emulator to > interface with the modems in one of my Linux boxes. > > I figure an LM556 for the dial tone... A tone decoder for dialing... Not > sure an easy way to decode pulse dialing. For cheap? Either a stepping relay or some kind of PIC might do it. I don't know how you'll do it for under $25, though. I have this one relay that would do it - it looks like a clock face on the back with thirty or so solder points. There are two relay inputs (110VAC) - step and reset. With something like this, it would be possible to assign a number, 28, say, and require that all the digits add up to that number. It would be, in effect, like a 1920's central office, but with a one-dimensional stepper instead of a three-dimensional stepper. Those things are fun to watch if you ever get to see one in a science museum. Perhaps you could simlate that relay in solid state? If you have a circuit that will detect tones, perhaps you could run another connection from the same line conditioners to a series of decade counters. The phone number wouldn't be software settable, but it might accomplish the task. The trick is that the phone company designates a minimum time between pulses on the same number and a minimum interval between numbers. Old dial phones had a mechanical governor to space the pulses jost so and to prevent the next number from starting too soon. I'd tell you the timing, but I just don't know. If I had to, I could hook up a scope/timer to this old dial phone I have. > As for ring... I am thinking using two charged capacitors and switching > them. That's the first method I came up with to limit the current cheaply. The cheap-o boxes I've seen worked by running 110VAC through a half-wave rectifier and current-limiting resistors. It's not perfect, but there's lots of tolerance on the part of phone equipment. My dad used to work for the phone company when he was right out of high school. Much later, when we were growing up in the 1970's, he had a box of old phones. We ran wires from my room to my next younger brother's room and just hooked a couple of batteries in the circuit and had a non- ringing intercom. I don't recall the voltage, but I think it was only 6v or 12v. True telco voltage is, IIRC, -48VDC. > Any suggestions? I'd like to do this for less that $25.00. I've seen telco simulators made in electrical junctions boxes sell at hamfests for about that. They didn't do any sort of dialling detection, though. I used to make a Cadillac telco simulator... I still have a box of parts and boards. We charged $800 for them. They would do half- connections, failed connections, fake busy, etc. The only think I ever used them for was to program an V.24 autodialer driver for our sync datacomm products. The rig was two of our own MC68K serial boards in the same BA-11, two Motorola 2400 baud sync modems and this box. Ny changing the dialed phone number, I could change the behavior in the telco simulator to force the modems to generate BUSY messages and NO CONNECT messages to run the dialer software through its paces. It was a hoot. The cheapest ones I've seen that did anything more than provide voltage and fake dialtone were around $200. Good Luck, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 14:22:30 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... In-Reply-To: <003001bf3c1c$64411180$0400c0a8@winbook> from "Richard Erlacher" at Dec 1, 99 09:52:01 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2325 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991201/8bf7a2a5/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 1 14:41:13 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) Message-ID: OK, I confess it's been almost a day since I worked on my PDP-8/m. I discovered that I appear to have, what looks to me at least to be, a very serious problem. I thought that one of the LED's for showing the address was out, been that way for at least a couple days. Then yesterday morning I put it on the table I've been using when I'm working on it, and another LED was out. Another address LED, but the one for the second bit, in other words set it to address 0002 and it looks like you're at 0000, grrrr! So I pulled the front off and discovered that the solder connections have apparently gone bad. I reheated the solder, and added a little. That fixed it for shortly longer than it took to get the front back on. The two LEDs are back out. Even more frustrating, checking out E46 on the G227 with my new TDS-220 Oscilliscope it looks as if everything is just fine. Yet the other day when I checked it with the logic probe it wasn't (still have the same problems with memory though). Probably better explain this, I'm seeing 'pulses' on the outputs that correspond to those on the E39 chip, in other words one chip is doing the xxx0 - xxx3 and the other the xxx4 - xxx7, which I wasn't seeing before. Still I really should recheck the results with both the Logic Probe, AND the Oscilliscope. So, I'm starting to wonder if I don't have some fairly serious problems with the solder joints in this system. What is the best way to check for this, and fix any problems that I find. In any case I obviously need to get a decent soldering iron, the el-cheapo Radio Shack one I've got is as old as some of the parts in the PDP-8! If nothing else I need a decent tip. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 1 14:24:00 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: OT: Game economics (was Re: The good old days of tape players) In-Reply-To: <19991201135910.B11280@mrbill.net> References: <0.d0999cb9.2576197d@aol.com> <38454ACD.C6C207EE@mainecoon.com> Message-ID: >What I'm surprised at is the *longevity* of the platform. I saw my first >Playstation in '95, and finally gave up and bought my own (heh) about three >months ago. TONS of games are still being actively developed for the >platform (its still a major porting candidate), and I dont see it dying >anytime soon. You want longevity? Try the Nintendo Gameboy! It's *on-topic* for this list! I bought my first gameboy right when they were first release in about '88 or '89. I was on a Frigate at the time, it was fantastic with the long battery life. (course I also had a Kaypro 2000 onboard). I can't believe that the platform is still alive, though I think they recently released a colour version. >What I need, tho, are just some good old-fashioned "blow stuff up" games. >I'd kill for a port of Ikari Warriors with that 8-position twistable >controller/joystick... > >Bill It's not that kind of game at all, but try 'Metal Gear Solid' if you haven't, I got it when it first came out about a year ago, I see now that it's available in their 'classic' packaging for a only $20, that game is a steal at that price. One of the few games I've ever played all the way through! If you like side-scroller shooters, go with Einhander or R-Types. R-Types is rather dated though as it's got the original graphics. Let's see, also look at WarGames if you can still find it. I really like the fact that I'll be able to play all my PSX games on the PSX2! Though it has been months since I've messed with it, but then I've not been a big game player for years. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 1 14:45:20 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <19991201204520.28753.qmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> --- CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > If you want to see slow, remember the process of building standalone > backup on TU58's on a 11/750 or 11/730? We're talking most of a *day*! > No wonder we've tried to erase those times from our memories :-). Ah... you needed the scripts I wrote eleven years ago... they would build a console TU58 with EXCHANGE and sling the files out to the tape in the right order. The benefit was that apparently the microprocessor in the TU58 (at least on the 11/730, don't know about the 11/750) would buffer the directory so that the only seeks were to *read* files, not to *locate* the files. Our 11/730 reboot time went from 18 minutes to under six with properly constructed tapes. It became a function of the serial line speed and tape velocity, not of random seek times on a 250-foot tape. You heard the drive go and go and go with occasional pauses at each new file. Every time I rebooted I was glad I'd taken an afternoon to automate the building process (which I had to re-do with every VMS major update). Boy... lots of VAX stuff flying the past few days. I'm going to have to fire something up and remind myself why I don't use 1980-vintage hardware on a daily basis. It was fun, but *damn* it was slow. I got a lot of reading done back in those days... seven hour offline backups, five hour upgrades... oh, yeah... the "good" old days. ;-) At least the stuff stayed up for more than ten minutes. Our record was 45 days between VAX reboots, but only because we were developing software and would have periods of several reboots per day to clear device drivers. Since then, I've seen uptimes on the cluster at Lucent measured in months. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 1 14:22:26 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:58 2005 Subject: uVAX-I and Plessy systems (was RE: VAXstation 3100 history) Message-ID: <19991201202226.28117.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Truthan,Larry" wrote: > Allison,or Anyone > > I recently got my MicroVAX I up and running it's MicroVMS 4.1 Congrats! > I listed devices and have an RD52 as DUA0. > and an RX50 as DUA1 and DUA2 Pretty standard. > I did not see any directory commands to tell how much disk space is > used/available. Are there any? SHOW DEVICE/FULL DUA0: > Nor did I see any FORMAT command. (Which at this point I want to AVOID, > because I don't understand the Backup process or target backup media > capacity constraints. It sounds like backup clones the OS on the same drive > in "renewed" and/or "rebuilt" files ) There is no low-level format commands (like a BIOS format) from within VMS. That stuff is all done from rare Field Service diagnostics. I don't know how to do it from a MicroVAX-I. With the right tape, it's just a bunch of menu questions for a MicroVAX-II w/RQDX3. > According to Allison's prior post, should I assume this RD52 is a 30MB MFM > non SCSI drive? Right. > I also have a Plessy 6600/6700 system which has a 84MB-90MB drive which I > think hangs on a DEC compatible SCSI controller. Cool. It might be an Emulex SMD drive interface (they were common third- party devices at one point). If the cables to the drive itself are a 60-pin and a 26-pin, it's SMD. If the cables are 34-pin and 20-pin, it's most likely ESDI. > Is there a chance I could Load the Hobby openVMS on either one, or both of > these systems in a cluster? AFAIK, yes. The issue becomes distribution. The hobby OpenVMS distro is on CD-ROM with the possibility of TK50 (OS only, no layered products) in the future. > It seems to me the more capable system would be the Plessy with larger HD > and Tape Unit already installed, (However I have never booted it, and I > have no Idea what OS currently resides on it.) Except that the Plessy system is a PDP-11 and not a VAX. It will run RT-11, RSX-11 and RSTS, among others, including 2BSD Unix ($100 hobby licenss from PUPS) I can help you with 2BSD. I have original 9-track 2.9 tapes (if your hardware is supported with the RP or XP drivers). Since we are in the same town, perhaps I can come over and give your stuff a look-see. I do have full docs for the 11/34 and attendant OSes of the era. > I believe someone gave an earlier response that the MicroVAX I was too > small to run openVMS alone. I don't know the minimum system requirements, but I would expect that you need 200Mb to load OpenVMS. VMS 6.1 barely fits on an RD54 - 154Mb, the largest you can use on your MicroVAX-I if you happen to have an RQDX3 (you probably have an RQDX1 or RQDX2 - quad-width cards). One of the reasons I'm looking forward to getting that MicroVAX 3100 is it will free me from the tyranny of small, slow, fragile and increasingly rare MFM disks. One downside I caught from a FAQ is that SCSI MicroVAXen don't like disks over 1.07Gb - too many blocks to keep track of with a 21-bit pointer. Fortunately, I have a couple of old DEC 3105's I can pull off of an Amiga. Quite the disks in their day, but discards now. Cheers, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 1 15:10:04 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: 3100 SCSI and 1.07GB (was RE: VAXstation 3100 history) In-Reply-To: <19991201202226.28117.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >probably have an RQDX1 or RQDX2 - quad-width cards). One of the reasons I'm >looking forward to getting that MicroVAX 3100 is it will free me from the >tyranny of small, slow, fragile and increasingly rare MFM disks. One downside Gotta agree there! >I caught from a FAQ is that SCSI MicroVAXen don't like disks over 1.07Gb - >too many blocks to keep track of with a 21-bit pointer. Fortunately, I have >a couple of old DEC 3105's I can pull off of an Amiga. Quite the disks in >their day, but discards now. Actually, that's not quite right. Plus I think the 3100/90 is likely to be new enough that this isn't a problem. Most 3100's can't have a boot disk that is over 1.07GB. The data disks can be over that. Some of the later 3100's don't have this limitation, IIRC. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From OLIVIERO.A at mail.omnitel.it Wed Dec 1 15:10:10 1999 From: OLIVIERO.A at mail.omnitel.it (OLIVIERO.A@mail.omnitel.it) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Aim 65 Message-ID: <6ed601bf3c40$736b0430$92f9010a@omnitel.it> Hello, i have a machine based on AIM 65: it is used to command a texile machine. I need to substite the disk driver. Do you know if it's possible to adapt a standard driver (such a 3 1/2 drive) to this machine? Thanks, Angelo Oliviero From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Dec 1 15:33:28 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: 3100 SCSI and 1.07GB (was RE: VAXstation 3100 history) In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 01, 1999 01:10:04 PM Message-ID: <199912012133.OAA03338@calico.litterbox.com> > >I caught from a FAQ is that SCSI MicroVAXen don't like disks over 1.07Gb - > >too many blocks to keep track of with a 21-bit pointer. Fortunately, I have > >a couple of old DEC 3105's I can pull off of an Amiga. Quite the disks in > >their day, but discards now. > > Actually, that's not quite right. Plus I think the 3100/90 is likely to be > new enough that this isn't a problem. Most 3100's can't have a boot disk > that is over 1.07GB. The data disks can be over that. Some of the later > 3100's don't have this limitation, IIRC. I *think* the microvax 3100s can get a console firmware update to allow bigger disks. Vaxstations can't. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 1 15:32:48 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <199912012132.QAA12045@world.std.com> Message-ID: >Boy... lots of VAX stuff flying the past few days. I'm going to have to >fire something up and remind myself why I don't use 1980-vintage hardware >on a daily basis. It was fun, but *damn* it was slow. I got a lot of reading >done back in those days... seven hour offline backups, five hour upgrades... >oh, yeah... the "good" old days. ;-) At least the stuff stayed up for more Remember the positive things you're saying are more about the OS, than about the hardware. Although you still have to have stable hardware. Get a modern Alpha, and you can have both OpenVMS and Speed. Of course I'm wondering how fast a VAX in the 20-30 VUPs range feels compared to a slower (ie affordable) Alpha. >than ten minutes. Our record was 45 days between VAX reboots, but only >because >we were developing software and would have periods of several reboots per day >to clear device drivers. Since then, I've seen uptimes on the cluster at >Lucent >measured in months. > >-ethan I've heard rumors of at least one cluster with an uptime measured in years. Me, I'm only at 18 days, but then I just put the system into production, and most of the time there is only one machine in the cluster (yeh, that doens't make a lot of sense). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 1 15:40:57 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: 3100 SCSI and 1.07GB (was RE: VAXstation 3100 history) In-Reply-To: <199912012133.OAA03338@calico.litterbox.com> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 01, 1999 01:10:04 PM Message-ID: >> Actually, that's not quite right. Plus I think the 3100/90 is likely to be >> new enough that this isn't a problem. Most 3100's can't have a boot disk >> that is over 1.07GB. The data disks can be over that. Some of the later >> 3100's don't have this limitation, IIRC. > >I *think* the microvax 3100s can get a console firmware update to allow bigger >disks. Vaxstations can't. > >-- >Jim Strickland Very likely. Are *any* of the newer 3100's VAXstations, or just MicroVAXen? Off the top of my head with the newest models you needed a 4000 if you want a VAXstation. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Dec 1 15:47:10 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: 3100 SCSI and 1.07GB (was RE: VAXstation 3100 history) In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 01, 1999 01:40:57 PM Message-ID: <199912012147.OAA03449@calico.litterbox.com> > > Very likely. Are *any* of the newer 3100's VAXstations, or just > MicroVAXen? Off the top of my head with the newest models you needed a > 4000 if you want a VAXstation. I have no idea. The last time I knew what was going on in the VAX product line, the 4000vlc had just come out, the University I was working had just payed a boatload of money for a 4000/500 (that I'm hoping to get my mits on when it gets retired come spring) and the 10000 (Vax Mainframe) was still in the catalog. Which brings up the next question - has anyone ever even seen one of the 10,000s, let alone owned one? -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed Dec 1 15:55:52 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Data Media Conversion -- commercial interest? Message-ID: <991201165552.20200384@trailing-edge.com> >A quick pair of questions to the list out of curiosity: > >Do you think there is much data out there on older storage >media (paper tape, punch cards, 7-track tape, 9-track tape) >that is waiting to be converted to newer (cd-rom, 8mm) media? I certainly think so! >Are there commercial firms that specialize in such transfers/ >conversions of data from older media to newer media? Yep, see the URL in my .sig below for more information on one such outfit :-). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL Wed Dec 1 15:58:34 1999 From: CordaAJ at NSWC.NAVY.MIL (Corda Albert J DLVA) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: PDP-10 Software Archive Message-ID: <7B4C28C84831D211BFA200805F9F34561A8E0B@nswcdlvaex04.nswc.navy.mil> Has anyone heard anything more about this? I'm trying to restore a PDP-10 (KS10) and would love to find an image of the distribution tapes (and any other relevant info...) - al - acorda@geocities.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Seth [mailto:sethm@loomcom.com] > Sent: Thursday, November 25, 1999 2:04 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: PDP-10 Software Archive > > > > [...] but very shortly (as in the next week or two) there > > will be a public archive available with TOPS-10 > distribution tape images, > > sources, build kits, etc. Total quantity of stuff (at the > moment) is > > in the few hundred megabyte range, and will likely grow a bit by > > announcement time. Keep your ears peeled to alt.sys.pdp10 > for details. > > > > There will be about 200-300 Megabytes of PDP-10 (TOPS-10 > and TOPS-20) > > DECUS freeware, too. > > Tim, you RULE! > > (and/or whoever's making the archive available, too!) > > -Seth > From marvin at rain.org Wed Dec 1 16:06:03 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: HP 9000 Manuals References: <199912012132.QAA12045@world.std.com> Message-ID: <38459BCB.E7E819F@rain.org> In traveling through a local thrift store, I ran across the following HP Manuals and thought there might be someone on this list interested: HP OSF/Motif Style Guide HP OSF/Motif Programmer's Guide Programming and Protocols for NFS Services Text Editors and Processors, HP-UX Concepts and Tutorials Shells and Misc Tools, HP-UX Concepts and Tutorials These are all labeled as for use with the HP 9000 Series 300/800 Computers. These are manuals only and do not have any software with them. They are available to anyone who wants them for $5.00 plus shipping for about 5 pounds. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 1 16:16:28 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: 3100 SCSI and 1.07GB (was RE: VAXstation 3100 history) In-Reply-To: <199912012147.OAA03449@calico.litterbox.com> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 01, 1999 01:40:57 PM Message-ID: >the 4000vlc had just come out, the University I was working had just payed a >boatload of money for a 4000/500 (that I'm hoping to get my mits on when it >gets retired come spring) and the 10000 (Vax Mainframe) was still in the >catalog. Which brings up the next question - has anyone ever even seen one >of the 10,000s, let alone owned one? > >-- >Jim Strickland Biggest I've seen is the 7000's, including a bunch of brand new ones being installed a few months ago! What a beautiful sight! Especially considering how many I've been seeing pulled out of the computer room at the site I'm normally at, and no they ones that disappear aren't available for rescue :^( Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 1 16:38:44 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Aim 65 Message-ID: <002901bf3c4c$d3b99840$0400c0a8@winbook> There's no reason why not. When you say disk driver, I assume you mean disk drive (the DRIVE is the piece of hardware into which you put the diskette, the DRIVER is the software with which you operate it). How you go about it will depend on a number of factors, however. Mostly it's how much work you want to do. The AIM65 ( I have a couple of them) did not come with a disk drive or an interface to one. You must have some information about your particular interface. If you do, that will shed light on the details. Dick -----Original Message----- From: OLIVIERO.A@mail.omnitel.it To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 2:15 PM Subject: Aim 65 Hello, i have a machine based on AIM 65: it is used to command a texile machine. I need to substite the disk driver. Do you know if it's possible to adapt a standard driver (such a 3 1/2 drive) to this machine? Thanks, Angelo Oliviero From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 16:29:53 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Rainbow Monitor Cable Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4764 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991201/3c3f8419/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 15:44:32 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 1, 99 12:41:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3494 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991201/8e165d61/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 1 16:39:22 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) References: Message-ID: <99120117433200.23864@vault.neurotica.com> On Wed, 01 Dec 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: >Remember the positive things you're saying are more about the OS, than >about the hardware. Although you still have to have stable hardware. Get >a modern Alpha, and you can have both OpenVMS and Speed. Of course I'm >wondering how fast a VAX in the 20-30 VUPs range feels compared to a slower >(ie affordable) Alpha. I haven't run any direct timings, but my 3100/80 seems much more responsive than an Alpha 3000/300LX running VMS v7.2. >I've heard rumors of at least one cluster with an uptime measured in years. >Me, I'm only at 18 days, but then I just put the system into production, >and most of the time there is only one machine in the cluster (yeh, that >doens't make a lot of sense). A former place of employment had uptimes in excess of 2 years on a pair of very heavily used 11/750s running VMS v4.7. Ridiculously long uptimes aren't rare with VMS systems. -Dave McGuire From elvey at hal.com Wed Dec 1 16:47:03 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199912012247.OAA27539@civic.hal.com> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > The nasty bit is that disturbing _anything_ will often 'fix' it. So you > think the last thing you did (resolded the LEDs, cleaned the backplane, > whatever) was the fix. And as soon as you get the case on, it's gone again. Hi Use care when soldering LEDs. They are quite sensitive to soldering temperatures. Until I learned this, I had a lot of intermittent LEDs. I've always use a heat sink on them since ( pliers on lead ). Check to see if it is the LED that is open inside by shunting it with a good one. Dwight From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 1 17:16:30 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <199912012316.SAA28189@world.std.com> Tony Duell wrote: >As regards getting more hard sectored disks, I've not found a source. Actually, I found a place on the web today (about 10 miles from my house, amusingly) that can make 10-track hard sector floppies. They say it will take 3-4 weeks, but were willing to sell me some for $1 a piece, or cheaper for quantities of 5000 or more. :) Here's their web address: http://www.athana.com On the subject of the nonbooting HDOS disks, I don't think there's anything wrong with the machine (I have two separate machines exhibiting the same behavior, after all) -- I think the disks are just very borderline. I adjusted the rotational speed on one of the H89's (it should be 200 according to my Heath manual) and then was able to get one of the HDOS disks to almost boot. But part way through the boot sequence it gets some unpleasant error and complains. So I suspect that if I had a fresh copy of an HDOS disk it would boot. Still don't know why the CP/M disks fared better, but perhaps they're a bit younger... Dave From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Wed Dec 1 16:51:08 1999 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <01JIZT3I7HWI935O6Y@cc.usu.edu> > I haven't run any direct timings, but my 3100/80 seems much more responsive >than an Alpha 3000/300LX running VMS v7.2. It's been my (unofficial) experience that a VAX usually seems about as fast as an Alpha running at twice the clock rate; so my 4000/96 at 83Mhz or thereabouts is roughly equal to my 3000/600 at 150MHz or thereabouts. Of course, every now and then the Alpha slaps you over the head to let you know that it's really fast. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 1 18:01:25 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Looking for Heath H89 software and some advice In-Reply-To: <019001bf3c55$3fd9ac60$0903a8c0@itasoftware.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Dave Baggett wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > >As regards getting more hard sectored disks, I've not found a source. > > Actually, I found a place on the web today (about 10 miles from my > house, amusingly) that can make 10-track hard sector floppies. They > say it will take 3-4 weeks, but were willing to sell me some for $1 a > piece, or cheaper for quantities of 5000 or more. :) > Here's their web address: http://www.athana.com They have been around for a while. I think that I have some Athana 8" disks around here. > On the subject of the nonbooting HDOS disks, I don't think there's > anything wrong with the machine (I have two separate machines > exhibiting the same behavior, after all) -- I think the disks are just very > borderline. I adjusted the rotational speed on one of the H89's > (it should be 200 according to my Heath manual) and then was able If that is rpm, 300 would seem correct, vice 200. - don > to get one of the HDOS disks to almost boot. But part way through the > boot sequence it gets some unpleasant error and complains. So I > suspect that if I had a fresh copy of an HDOS disk it would boot. > Still don't know why the CP/M disks fared better, but perhaps they're > a bit younger... > > Dave > > > From danny.vanbraband at yucom.be Wed Dec 1 16:48:26 1999 From: danny.vanbraband at yucom.be (Danny Van Braband) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: SC/MP Message-ID: <000901bf3c4e$315912e0$62aa08d4@compaq> Hallo, While looking for info on the SC/MP developing system from National i stumbled on this message from Alisson J Parent.: On May 30, 12:24, Allison J Parent wrote: > Subject: Re: National SC/MP data > <40, instead of +5 Volts on the later NMOS versions. The actual part No. is > Message-ID: <199912020008.QAA28537@civic.hal.com> Don Maslin wrote: > > If that is rpm, 300 would seem correct, vice 200. Hi If you have one of the original drives, there is a strobe on the flywheel pulley. You just need a fluorescent light or neon light. Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 17:30:44 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: <199912012247.OAA27539@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at Dec 1, 99 02:47:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1723 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991201/6ac91dc7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 18:39:19 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Looking for Heath H89 software and some advice In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Dec 1, 99 04:01:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 436 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991202/a948f64c/attachment.ksh From elvey at hal.com Wed Dec 1 18:51:49 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199912020051.QAA29111@civic.hal.com> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > I wonder if you're actually slightly melting the plastic package and then > disturbing the bondout wire from the LED 'chip' to the other terminal, > perhaps by pulling on the leads while it's still hot. That could make it go > intermittent. Hi Tony Yes, I suspect this was the failure method. I was working for a company that made boards with 60 or so status lights. Before heat sinking, we would get about 1 in 200 or 300 failures. After heat sinking, we had no failures. Even 1 in 200 to 300 is too high. If in fact this is the failure mode, it means that some of the tested units are getting into the field with flaky connections. With a 3 year warranty, this is a pain. Dwight From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 1 19:03:58 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: SC/MP Message-ID: <199912020103.UAA06870@world.std.com> <> <40, instead of +5 Volts on the later NMOS versions. The actual part = Message-ID: <01d301bf3c63$12f15d20$85701fd1@jrkeysppt> The Processor used to list several companies that offered conversion services. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kevin L. Anderson To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 1:17 PM Subject: Data Media Conversion -- commercial interest? > A quick pair of questions to the list out of curiosity: > > Do you think there is much data out there on older storage > media (paper tape, punch cards, 7-track tape, 9-track tape) > that is waiting to be converted to newer (cd-rom, 8mm) media? > > Are there commercial firms that specialize in such transfers/ > conversions of data from older media to newer media? > > Regards, > Kevin Anderson > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > Kevin L. Anderson Ph.D., Geography Department, Augustana College > Rock Island, Illinois 61201-2296, USA phone: (309) 794-7325 > e-mail: kla@helios.augustana.edu -or- gganderson@augustana.edu > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > Opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent > the administration of Augustana College. > > From elvey at hal.com Wed Dec 1 19:21:57 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Looking for Heath H89 software and some advice In-Reply-To: <019001bf3c55$3fd9ac60$0903a8c0@itasoftware.com> Message-ID: <199912020121.RAA29472@civic.hal.com> "Dave Baggett" wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > >As regards getting more hard sectored disks, I've not found a source. > > Actually, I found a place on the web today (about 10 miles from my > house, amusingly) that can make 10-track hard sector floppies. They > say it will take 3-4 weeks, but were willing to sell me some for $1 a > piece, or cheaper for quantities of 5000 or more. :) > Here's their web address: http://www.athana.com > > On the subject of the nonbooting HDOS disks, I don't think there's > anything wrong with the machine (I have two separate machines > exhibiting the same behavior, after all) -- I think the disks are just very > borderline. I adjusted the rotational speed on one of the H89's > (it should be 200 according to my Heath manual) and then was able > to get one of the HDOS disks to almost boot. But part way through the > boot sequence it gets some unpleasant error and complains. So I > suspect that if I had a fresh copy of an HDOS disk it would boot. > Still don't know why the CP/M disks fared better, but perhaps they're > a bit younger... > > Dave > Hi I would still suspect it might be in the machines. As was mentioned, the HDOS and CPM memory models were different. If the modification wasn't done correctly, it may be that both machines will only boot CPM and are not able to boot HDOS without undoing the mods. To convince your self, why not look at the read data signals on coming from the disk. I would think that a weak signal would show as a lack of transitions on the read data. Dwight From jrkeys at concentric.net Wed Dec 1 19:27:01 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Great Finds Message-ID: <020401bf3c64$5653ec80$85701fd1@jrkeysppt> Well yesterday was a great day as I added 17 more manuals to my collection and some items that are not yet ten years old. I also picked up Toshiba T1200 not working right now, no charger for battery. I got a HP 35660A Dynamic Signal Analyzer. The other 15 items range from Apple to IBM to Maxtor and where 4 to 8 years old and will go into storage for display later. I started working on my web site and hope it have it up soon with pictures. Keep Computing John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991201/2732108c/attachment.html From rcini at msn.com Wed Dec 1 19:18:24 1999 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek Message-ID: <004601bf3c64$4eb145e0$01c8a8c0@office1> Hello, all: Does anyone have a copy of the Basic source for Super StarTrek? It's included in the book "BASIC Computer Games" by David H. Ahl (Creative Computing). I probably won't win the eOverPay auction, so I'm trying to search out a copy of the game, since AFAIK, it's the only program of interest in book anyway. Thanks. Rich [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW1 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ <---------------------------- reply separator From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Dec 1 19:50:17 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek In-Reply-To: <004601bf3c64$4eb145e0$01c8a8c0@office1> from "Richard A. Cini" at Dec 01, 1999 08:18:24 PM Message-ID: <199912020150.SAA04660@calico.litterbox.com> I have the book. If you'll send me private e-mail I'll scan the source pages and mail you the jpgs. (I don't trust OCR to do it right). This program and I have a long history. A friend of mine got his mom - who typed at some obscenely high rate - to type the whole thing into his commodore 64, and we exchanged versions of it with "graphics" (okay we substituted commodore specific characters for the letters) and primitive sound effects. Where that disk is I have no idea, I'm sure it's long gone. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From lemay at cs.umn.edu Wed Dec 1 19:51:07 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek In-Reply-To: <004601bf3c64$4eb145e0$01c8a8c0@office1> from "Richard A. Cini" at "Dec 1, 1999 08:18:24 pm" Message-ID: <199912020151.BAA02708@thorin.cs.umn.edu> I probably have it in a book someplace. However, there was a version written for the IBM, I recall running it on the IBM AT. It used colored text and such, but was essentially the same program. Binary only though. -Lawrence LeMay > > Does anyone have a copy of the Basic source for Super StarTrek? It's > included in the book "BASIC Computer Games" by David H. Ahl (Creative > Computing). > > I probably won't win the eOverPay auction, so I'm trying to search out a > copy of the game, since AFAIK, it's the only program of interest in book > anyway. > > Thanks. > > Rich > > [ Rich Cini/WUGNET > [ ClubWin!/CW1 > [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > [ Collector of "classic" computers > [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ > <---------------------------- reply separator > > > > From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed Dec 1 19:56:43 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek Message-ID: <991201205643.202003ca@trailing-edge.com> > Does anyone have a copy of the Basic source for Super StarTrek? It's >included in the book "BASIC Computer Games" by David H. Ahl (Creative >Computing). > > I probably won't win the eOverPay auction, so I'm trying to search out a >copy of the game, since AFAIK, it's the only program of interest in book >anyway. Sure, I've got it, it's on one of the four 8" floppies that Creative Computing was selling in 1977 or so with all the "BASIC Computer Games" on them. If you want to see the original floppies and documentation cards, check out http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/flop1.jpg http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/flop2.jpg http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/sheet1a.gif http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/sheet2a.gif Here's what's on the four floppies - I'm pretty sure what you're asking for is "startrek.bas" from floppy #2. cpmutl version(7), date:7-30-85 disk status: 55 files, 55 extents, 184K allocated, 57K free recs K ex usr name 18 3K 1 [0]read.me 15 2K 1 [0]aceyducy.bas 23 3K 1 [0]amazing.bas 16 2K 1 [0]animal.bas 35 5K 1 [0]awari.bas 16 2K 1 [0]bagels.bas 22 3K 1 [0]banner.bas 34 5K 1 [0]basketbl.bas 16 2K 1 [0]batnum.bas 55 7K 1 [0]battle.bas 59 8K 1 [0]blackjck.bas 19 3K 1 [0]bombard.bas 21 3K 1 [0]bombsawy.bas 10 2K 1 [0]bounce.bas 17 3K 1 [0]bowling.bas 23 3K 1 [0]boxing.bas 40 5K 1 [0]bug.bas 35 5K 1 [0]bullfght.bas 12 2K 1 [0]bullseye.bas 11 2K 1 [0]bunny.bas 10 2K 1 [0]buzzword.bas 11 2K 1 [0]calendar.bas 10 2K 1 [0]change.bas 21 3K 1 [0]checkers.bas 9 2K 1 [0]chemist.bas 13 2K 1 [0]chief.bas 19 3K 1 [0]chomp.bas 61 8K 1 [0]civilwar.bas 25 4K 1 [0]combat.bas 17 3K 1 [0]craps.bas 27 4K 1 [0]cube.bas 10 2K 1 [0]depthchg.bas 5 1K 1 [0]diamond.bas 7 1K 1 [0]dice.bas 17 3K 1 [0]digits.bas 16 2K 1 [0]evenwin1.bas 22 3K 1 [0]evenwin2.bas 14 2K 1 [0]flipflop.bas 47 6K 1 [0]footbal1.bas 47 6K 1 [0]footbal2.bas 42 6K 1 [0]furtradr.bas 41 6K 1 [0]golf.bas 14 2K 1 [0]gomoko.bas 9 2K 1 [0]guess.bas 13 2K 1 [0]gunner.bas 34 5K 1 [0]hamurabi.bas 25 4K 1 [0]hangman.bas 24 3K 1 [0]hello.bas 39 5K 1 [0]hexapawn.bas 8 1K 1 [0]hilo.bas 26 4K 1 [0]hi-q.bas 58 8K 1 [0]hockey.bas 25 4K 1 [0]amazingp.bas 8 1K 1 [0]menu.bas 0 0K 1 [0]-games.600 ---- --- -- 1271 184 55 cpmutl version(7), date:7-30-85 disk status: 56 files, 56 extents, 182K allocated, 59K free recs K ex usr name 18 3K 1 [0]read.me 23 3K 1 [0]horsrace.bas 10 2K 1 [0]hurkle.bas 7 1K 1 [0]kinema.bas 65 9K 1 [0]king.bas 47 6K 1 [0]lem.bas 7 1K 1 [0]letter.bas 14 2K 1 [0]life.bas 16 2K 1 [0]life2.bas 14 2K 1 [0]litquiz.bas 17 3K 1 [0]lunar.bas 36 5K 1 [0]madlib.bas 36 5K 1 [0]mastrmnd.bas 11 2K 1 [0]mathdice.bas 13 2K 1 [0]mugwump.bas 8 1K 1 [0]name.bas 8 1K 1 [0]nicoma.bas 26 4K 1 [0]nim.bas 9 2K 1 [0]number.bas 17 3K 1 [0]onecheck.bas 28 4K 1 [0]orbit.bas 12 2K 1 [0]poetry.bas 53 7K 1 [0]poker.bas 45 6K 1 [0]qubic.bas 20 3K 1 [0]pizza.bas 28 4K 1 [0]queen.bas 14 2K 1 [0]reverse.bas 21 3K 1 [0]rocket.bas 9 2K 1 [0]rocksp.bas 44 6K 1 [0]roulette.bas 6 1K 1 [0]rusrou.bas 55 7K 1 [0]salvo.bas 4 1K 1 [0]sinewave.bas 32 4K 1 [0]slalom.bas 17 3K 1 [0]slots.bas 39 5K 1 [0]splat.bas 12 2K 1 [0]stars.bas 56 7K 1 [0]stock.bas 119 15K 1 [0]startrek.bas 46 6K 1 [0]trekinst.bas 14 2K 1 [0]synonym.bas 19 3K 1 [0]target.bas 9 2K 1 [0]tictac1.bas 18 3K 1 [0]tictac2.bas 29 4K 1 [0]towers.bas 6 1K 1 [0]train.bas 11 2K 1 [0]trap.bas 8 1K 1 [0]menu.bas 13 2K 1 [0]23-match.bas 4 1K 1 [0]3dplot.bas 15 2K 1 [0]war.bas 27 4K 1 [0]weekday.bas 14 2K 1 [0]word.bas 11 2K 1 [0]love.bas 11 2K 1 [0]love-p.bas 0 0K 1 [0]-games.601 ---- --- -- 1271 182 56 cpmutl version(7), date:7-30-85 disk status: 55 files, 55 extents, 219K allocated, 22K free recs K ex usr name 23 3K 1 [0]artilry3.bas 19 3K 1 [0]bogaii.bas 12 2K 1 [0]blackbox.bas 20 3K 1 [0]big6.bas 47 6K 1 [0]bridgeit.bas 29 4K 1 [0]bocce.bas 59 8K 1 [0]bombrun.bas 7 1K 1 [0]binary.bas 35 5K 1 [0]bobstone.bas 26 4K 1 [0]bacrat.bas 24 3K 1 [0]biblquiz.bas 25 4K 1 [0]condot.bas 16 2K 1 [0]concentr.bas 50 7K 1 [0]convoy.bas 16 2K 1 [0]corral.bas 15 2K 1 [0]column.bas 33 5K 1 [0]clsenctr.bas 25 4K 1 [0]chase.bas 10 2K 1 [0]chuck.bas 14 2K 1 [0]cup.bas 10 2K 1 [0]countdwn.bas 35 5K 1 [0]camel.bas 14 2K 1 [0]defuse.bas 59 8K 1 [0]dealers.bas 48 6K 1 [0]deepspce.bas 25 4K 1 [0]dragrace.bas 14 2K 1 [0]doctorz.bas 47 6K 1 [0]dodgem.bas 10 2K 1 [0]doors.bas 53 7K 1 [0]eliza.bas 31 4K 1 [0]father.bas 33 5K 1 [0]geowar.bas 17 3K 1 [0]flip.bas 32 4K 1 [0]guess-it.bas 54 7K 1 [0]granprix.bas 12 2K 1 [0]icbm.bas 18 3K 1 [0]inkblot.bas 35 5K 1 [0]joust.bas 13 2K 1 [0]jmpballs.bas 26 4K 1 [0]keno.bas 9 2K 1 [0]lisajous.bas 38 5K 1 [0]lewis.bas 41 6K 1 [0]lifexpct.bas 59 8K 1 [0]l-game.bas 59 8K 1 [0]million.bas 29 4K 1 [0]maneuvrs.bas 45 6K 1 [0]maze.bas 18 3K 1 [0]merabbit.bas 15 2K 1 [0]mcycljmp.bas 16 2K 1 [0]magicsqr.bas 59 8K 1 [0]minotaur.bas 9 2K 1 [0]menu.bas 17 3K 1 [0]matpuzzl.bas 17 3K 1 [0]mstrbgls.bas 13 2K 1 [0]mmind.bas ---- --- -- 1535 219 55 cpmutl version(7), date:7-30-85 disk status: 35 files, 36 extents, 166K allocated, 75K free recs K ex usr name 7 1K 1 [0]menu.bas 21 3K 1 [0]not-one.bas 29 4K 1 [0]obstacle.bas 22 3K 1 [0]pasart.bas 51 7K 1 [0]nomad.bas 43 6K 1 [0]octrix.bas 63 8K 1 [0]pinball.bas 13 2K 1 [0]patterns.bas 74 10K 1 [0]pasart2.bas 28 4K 1 [0]roadrace.bas 131 17K 2 [0]seabat.bas 22 3K 1 [0]smash.bas 20 3K 1 [0]rotate.bas 13 2K 1 [0]rbbtchs.bas 20 3K 1 [0]safe.bas 18 3K 1 [0]schmoo.bas 25 4K 1 [0]scales.bas 43 6K 1 [0]seawar.bas 21 3K 1 [0]strike9.bas 35 5K 1 [0]shoot.bas 20 3K 1 [0]two-ten.bas 43 6K 1 [0]twonky.bas 9 2K 1 [0]ttape.bas 42 6K 1 [0]ufo.bas 18 3K 1 [0]tvplot.bas 29 4K 1 [0]tennis.bas 12 2K 1 [0]undrover.bas 52 7K 1 [0]uspop.bas 33 5K 1 [0]wspuzzle.bas 42 6K 1 [0]wumpus.bas 64 8K 1 [0]wumpus2.bas 25 4K 1 [0]vangam.bas 30 4K 1 [0]warfish.bas 45 6K 1 [0]yahtzee.bas 20 3K 1 [0]4inarow.bas ---- --- -- 1183 166 36 -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 1 19:46:00 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Looking for Heath H89 software and some advice In-Reply-To: <199912020121.RAA29472@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at Dec 1, 99 05:21:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 982 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991202/21a23bac/attachment.ksh From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Dec 1 20:11:29 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Fixing Basic Proggies (was: Basic Source for Super Star Trek In-Reply-To: <199912020150.SAA04660@calico.litterbox.com> References: <004601bf3c64$4eb145e0$01c8a8c0@office1> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991201211129.00a65d20@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that Jim Strickland may have mentioned these words: >This program and I have a long history. A friend of mine got his mom - who >typed at some obscenely high rate - to type the whole thing into his commodore >64, and we exchanged versions of it with "graphics" (okay we substituted >commodore specific characters for the letters) and primitive sound effects. >Where that disk is I have no idea, I'm sure it's long gone. Boy, does that bring back memories... A friend of mine *way back when* had a Commie 64 w/2 floppies (back when they were lotsa $$$) and we played a game called "Telengard"... I believe that's the correct spelling. Pretty neat game, was in basic. I remember the original programmer never bothered to program in a save game function, so my buddy and I did one day... [[Boy, those were the days... If you don't like it, Fix it! ;-) Something Gates needs to learn... ;-)]] ISTR that the tape the game originally came on had versions for a few Commies, the Atari 800, and Believe it or not, the CoCo! all on the same tape. Anyone have that game floating around... now that I have a 64 & 128? Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Dec 1 20:16:56 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Fixing Basic Proggies (was: Basic Source for Super Star Trek In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991201211129.00a65d20@127.0.0.1> from "Roger Merchberger" at Dec 01, 1999 09:11:29 PM Message-ID: <199912020216.TAA04878@calico.litterbox.com> > Boy, does that bring back memories... A friend of mine *way back when* had > a Commie 64 w/2 floppies (back when they were lotsa $$$) and we played a > game called "Telengard"... I believe that's the correct spelling. Pretty > neat game, was in basic. I remember the original programmer never bothered > to program in a save game function, so my buddy and I did one day... [[Boy, > those were the days... If you don't like it, Fix it! ;-) Something Gates > needs to learn... ;-)]] > > ISTR that the tape the game originally came on had versions for a few > Commies, the Atari 800, and Believe it or not, the CoCo! all on the same > tape. Anyone have that game floating around... now that I have a 64 & 128? > > Thanks, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger Heh. Does anyone remember Artworx "Strip Poker?" It was in basic too. I discovered one bored afternoon that it was a lot easier to hack the game so with a certain keystroke you could select which images actually loaded than it was to beat the darn thing at poker. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Wed Dec 1 20:31:38 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek In-Reply-To: "Richard A. Cini" "Basic Source for Super Star Trek" (Dec 1, 20:18) References: <004601bf3c64$4eb145e0$01c8a8c0@office1> Message-ID: <9912020231.ZM25545@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Hi, Rich. On Dec 1, 20:18, Richard A. Cini wrote: > Hello, all: > > Does anyone have a copy of the Basic source for Super StarTrek? It's > included in the book "BASIC Computer Games" by David H. Ahl (Creative > Computing). Not *quite* what you're looking for, but point your web browser at ftp://ftp.rahul.net/pub/rhn/classic.basic.programs/ and you'll find a ported version. I have another version on one of my machines, but it's based on the the original (more or less) rather than Super Star Trek. I do have the original SPACWR.BAS (Mike Mayfield, converted by David Ahl, I think) if you want that... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 1 20:38:59 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek In-Reply-To: <9912020231.ZM25545@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Dec 02, 1999 02:31:38 AM Message-ID: <199912020238.SAA16756@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Does anyone have a copy of the Basic source for Super StarTrek? It's > > included in the book "BASIC Computer Games" by David H. Ahl (Creative > > Computing). > On a related topic, does anyone remember a Star Trek game that ran on Harris Minicomputers? Unlike the normal ST games this wasn't played on a 10x10 grid. Instead you gave it a heading which may have been as simplistic as left or right told it to fire and so on. Very simple StarTrek game, I've been searching for it for about 12 years now. Unfortunatly I only got to play a few short games and the memory is fuzzy. Zane From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Dec 1 20:41:30 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek References: <004601bf3c64$4eb145e0$01c8a8c0@office1> Message-ID: <3845DC5A.13B609CE@idirect.com> >Richard A. Cini wrote: > Does anyone have a copy of the Basic source for Super StarTrek? It's > included in the book "BASIC Computer Games" by David H. Ahl (Creative > Computing). > > I probably won't win the eOverPay auction, so I'm trying to search out a > copy of the game, since AFAIK, it's the only program of interest in book > anyway. Jerome Fine replies: You might want to look up the news group post in "comp.sys.dec.micro" on Friday, 26 November 1999 at 15:55:00 GMT or 10:55:00 EST. It contains a link to: http://www.bloodletting.com/~maury which under the link "Star Trek" is a link to: http://www.bloodletting.com/~maury/Star%20Trek.htm which contains much more information. I have 2 RT-11 files "SST.SAV" and "SST.DOC" dated 18-Dec-1978 which were from source written in FORTRAN IV (I should think). I have a great deal of interest in attempting to find the exact source and the version of FORTRAN and the libraries used to produce the SST.SAV file that I have. Same sort of interest that you fellows who want to put a PDP-11/45 back together just for the fun of it. Tom Amy has sent me some source files (probably in C or FORTRAN) which are close to what produced my SST.SAV. If anyone who is looking into the various source files comes across RT-11 based FORTRAN source, I would very much appreciate the lead so that I can acquire the files as well. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 1 20:55:12 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek Message-ID: <199912020255.SAA01651@spies.com> "I do have the original SPACWR.BAS (Mike Mayfield, converted by David Ahl, I think) if you want that..." it would be nice to find the original HP2000 version somewhere. The copy that Jeff Moffatt has on the HP2100 page looks like a bad read. From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Dec 1 21:12:00 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? In-Reply-To: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE1B@oa2-server.dev.oc lc.org> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991201221200.00a6baf0@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that Truthan,Larry may have mentioned these words: >Fact: Canada's largest Oil terminal and Refinery is on the St Mary's River >in Sarnia Ont. Fact: you've oopsed your Great Lakes geography... ;-) I was raised on the St. Mary's River (from age 7 up)... Still live nearby. Sarnia is across from Port Huron, MI. Urmmm... Dahhh... According to the quickie mileage graph I have, Port Huron & DeTour Village (southern outlet of St. Mary's River) are 349 Miles away... a goodly 275+ miles by water I'd guess. Fact: If the oil terminal is in Sarnia, it's on a different river... :-) Prost, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 1 20:12:31 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991201103949.01b8bbe0@pc> References: <3.0.3.32.19991201100359.009bd020@207.207.0.212> <3.0.3.32.19991130184532.009750f0@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: >At 10:03 AM 12/1/99 -0600, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: >>I have some old modems (TRS-80, acoustic and etc.) which I would like to >>use (flashing LEDs are cool) so, I want to build a little telco emulator to >>interface with the modems in one of my Linux boxes. > >You'd think it would be easy, and you think someone out there would >have done it already. I wanted to do this once upon a time. It would >seem like a great project for an old PC, a parallel port, a few >junk-box relays and maybe a sound card. I think I mentioned this >idea on this list a year or two ago, and Sellam (apparently a telco >wizard) thought it could get complicated. > >- John I know I have heard of something called a "ring generator" that can be used I think in multiphone systems. I think it was part of some kind of modem, but best advice is just go ask the phone guys in comp.dcom.modems etc. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 1 20:31:57 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Game economics (was Re: The good old days of tape players) In-Reply-To: <001701bf3c14$04ab2240$7a73e2d1@default> Message-ID: >>As for PC's eating into PS2 sales, don't hold your breath. When you can >>buy a PC with a 128-bit reconfigurable integer CPU with 10 floating point >>units organized into two vector processors, synchronous rambus, a dedicated >>rendering engine, ethernet, 56K modem, DVD drive and sound for $300 >>(they also throw a PS1 chipset into the box, since the PS2 chipset >>cannot run PS1 code) then SCE will find themselves in the same position >>they were in 12 months ago. But then I'd expect the PS3 to be in the >>works by then ;-) >>-- > > >Very well put! I would hazard putting forth the view that a "cycle" exists in gaming where consoles dominate a few years, then take a nose dive, and computer based gaming dominates, repeat. Video games have some powerfull points pro and con. Pro Dedicated hardware, massive sales, and low priced consoles. Con Low priced consoles mean hardware budgets are TIGHT, serious lack of talent (ie lets do Donkey Kong one more time), no third party innovation, 3 dozen different games isn't a lot choose from, Long product revision cycles (ala 3 years vs 6 months). TV based products have limits that PC based does not. I can play most N64 games on a moderate PC, most playstation games on a newer G3 mac. When you look at just what a current generation machine can do, I'm not sure how much all those bells and whistles will really gain a person in actual game play on the new consoles. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 1 20:55:43 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: OT: Game economics (was Re: The good old days of tape players) In-Reply-To: References: <38454ACD.C6C207EE@mainecoon.com> <0.d0999cb9.2576197d@aol.com> Message-ID: >The Playstation has another added benifit. You buy it, and you buy the >games. Sure you might buy some additional controllers, but there really >aren't any upgrades. The Playstation I bought two years ago plays todays >games. How many of todays games does that PC bought two years ago play >well? You don't have a memory upgrade, or a mod chip thingy, or clear pink replacement case? There was a guy at the last swapmeet I went to that had a whole space full of just Playstation "things". From chris at mainecoon.com Wed Dec 1 22:00:46 1999 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: *Really* OT: Re: Game economics (was Re: The good old days of tape players) References: Message-ID: <3845EEEE.DCEB8059@mainecoon.com> Mike Ford wrote: [snip] > I would hazard putting forth the view that a "cycle" exists in gaming where > consoles dominate a few years, then take a nose dive, and computer based > gaming dominates, repeat. Video games have some powerfull points pro and > con. At any given level of technology it's easy to get an absurd price/performance advantage over a more generic solution by addressing a particular special case. As technology advances the generic solution will become competitive with the special case, but historically a new special case solution using contemporary technology evolves, again allowing the special case solution to provide superior price/performance. Part of the phenomina with games has to do with the hardware lifecycle of consoles. Unlike generic processors, you can't do a subsequent shrink or change process. This isn't rooted in economics, it's rooted in the amazing fact that in this day instructions are still, in effect, hand scheduled around the processor's clock speed and bus behavior. So whatever you ship on day one is what you ship on day last. That console games have the lifetime that they do is simply amazing. Imagine the x86 family shipping at only one clock speed for the lifetime of the processor. > > Pro > Dedicated hardware, massive sales, and low priced consoles. > > Con > Low priced consoles mean hardware budgets are TIGHT, serious lack of talent > (ie lets do Donkey Kong one more time), no third party innovation, 3 dozen > different games isn't a lot choose from, Long product revision cycles (ala > 3 years vs 6 months). TV based products have limits that PC based does not. Hardware budgets are subsidised by software revenue. Software budgets aren't tight at all; SCE claimed the average development budget for a single title for the PS1 was in excess of *twenty million US dollars.* > I can play most N64 games on a moderate PC, most playstation games on a > newer G3 mac. When you look at just what a current generation machine can > do, I'm not sure how much all those bells and whistles will really gain a > person in actual game play on the new consoles. Probably not much until the guys writing the code come to grips with it. Well, there *are* some obvious things; the PS1 uses static backgrounds or backgrounds which are pulled from CD; the PS2 synthesizes them on the fly. There's such an obscene amount of computing power in the box and enough persistant store that SCE requires that titles be designed to modify their behavior based on the past behavior of the gamer. I've only seen a few game trailers, the image fidelity is much better than on the PS1 and N64 and there are nice little touches, like clouds of steam when characters exhale in cold rooms :-) The point is that a new G3 mac can't approximate the level of hardware that's in current generation (the PS1 is hardly current) consoles; by the time it does there will be another batch of oddball speciality hardware (and it *is* oddball. When was the last time that you saw a CPU chip which could be a DMA target?) with another batch of hopelessly counterintuitive instructions specified by the game writers ready to take up the challenge. -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From msg at computerpro.com Wed Dec 1 22:42:47 1999 From: msg at computerpro.com (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: HELP! DEC AXP Serial Console Message-ID: Greetings. Life's tough without manuals. We'd appreciate some help with configuring an async terminal as console on a DEC 3000-M400 (and to remain on topic advice for the same on VAXStation 3100). After an exhaustive 'net search with little success researching cable data we empirically wired the following cable: MMJ-F,front view DB-25F Unix host DCE? DCE (multiport ctrlr)DTE ----- | 1 |----------dtr------------------ 20 dtr---------cd - 2 |----------td------------------- 2 td----------rd | 3 |----------td gnd---|----------- 7 sgnd--------gnd | 4 |----------rd gnd---| - 5 |----------rd ------------------ 3 rd----------td | 6 |----------dsr------------------ 6 cd----------dtr ----- |- 5 cts---------rts (pin nos are conjecture) |- 4 rts---------cts Setting the terminal for 9600,7,1,e produces a readable display during boot but commands entered to the firmware monitor and/or to SYSBOOT are invalid even though they echo properly. Only the single '?' or the letter 'c' function as intended. The system works properly when used with the attached keyboard/display (with the 'alternate console' switch in the other position). The terminal works properly as a login terminal under VMS (6.1 AXP) using this cable. Using other parity, framing, baud, etc. doesn't help. Also, the machine came without UCX (TCP/IP) and has no floppy or tape at the moment. We'd like to transfer some files over the serial cable (uuencoded or otherwise) and have tried 'COPY OPA1: FOO' which works except that an interrupt (^C) doesn't close the file. The proper procedure would be appreciated. Is there a terminal program bundled with VMS 6.1 (we couldn't find one)? We'd also appreciate advice regarding obtaining VMS documentation beyond the online help system and 'net faqs (I can't imagine becoming fluent in DCL or VMS otherwise) and hardware documentation for 3100 and AXP series machines (one would hope that microfiche or cd-rom versions exist by now). From MacNut9765 at aol.com Wed Dec 1 22:50:01 1999 From: MacNut9765 at aol.com (MacNut9765@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:47:59 2005 Subject: Apple Adjustable Keyboard Message-ID: <0.bcffd36a.25775479@aol.com> Would you happen to still have that keyboard? I know I'm sending this almost a year after you posted your original message but I just figured I would ask. I happen to have one of those keyboards and it grew on me. I didn't care for it when I first bought it but I love it now. Unfortunately, its getting old now and many of the buttons are starting to not work anymore or double type. I have been trying to find a replacement for it but they are rather tough to find. I really dont care for the current straight keyboards now that I am used to the adjustable one its hard to go back. Not to mention that I tend to make many more typos with a straight keyboard since Im used to having it split all the time. Let me know, I would appriciate it. Thanks! macnut9765@aol.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 1 23:04:11 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <19991202050411.21591.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >I believe someone gave an earlier response that the MicroVAX I was too > >small to run openVMS alone. > > Well, you're not as bad off as I was thinking, must have been mixing you up > with a VAX-11/725. Hey! What's wrong with the 11/725? I used to have one until the company that was borrowing it folded. I didn't find out until my VAX was gone. :-( Essentially, it was an 11/730 w/RC25 as the primary disk device, but you *could* stick other stuff in there. I even knew a company that ran a BA-11 box off of theirs, but DEC *did not* support that configuration. It was a packaging issue. There should be no way to tell an 11/725 from an 11/730 in software. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 1 23:08:36 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: HELP! DEC AXP Serial Console In-Reply-To: from "Michael Grigoni" at Dec 01, 1999 10:42:47 PM Message-ID: <199912020508.VAA20570@shell1.aracnet.com> > Life's tough without manuals. Don't we know it! Look at the bright side you aren't trying to setup a Q-Bus system without manuals. > Setting the terminal for 9600,7,1,e produces a readable display during Well, I use VT420's on my headless VMS boxes, including a DEC 3000/300LX. They all are talkign 9600 8NI, IIRC. Unfortunatly I don't have a pinout handy for the cable, so can't check that for you. > boot but commands entered to the firmware monitor and/or to SYSBOOT > are invalid even though they echo properly. Only the single '?' > or the letter 'c' function as intended. The system works properly > when used with the attached keyboard/display (with the 'alternate console' > switch in the other position). The terminal works properly as a > login terminal under VMS (6.1 AXP) using this cable. Using other > parity, framing, baud, etc. doesn't help. Wierd! This is part of why I'm wondering if the cable isn't the problem. > We'd also appreciate advice regarding obtaining VMS documentation beyond > the online help system and 'net faqs (I can't imagine becoming fluent > in DCL or VMS otherwise) and hardware documentation for 3100 and AXP > series machines (one would hope that microfiche or cd-rom versions > exist by now). Even better it's on the web! http://www.digital.openvms.com:8000/ Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 1 23:15:42 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <19991202050411.21591.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 01, 1999 09:04:11 PM Message-ID: <199912020515.VAA20633@shell1.aracnet.com> > --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > Well, you're not as bad off as I was thinking, must have been mixing you up > > with a VAX-11/725. > > Hey! What's wrong with the 11/725? I used to have one until the company > that was borrowing it folded. I didn't find out until my VAX was gone. :-( > > Essentially, it was an 11/730 w/RC25 as the primary disk device, but you > *could* stick other stuff in there. I even knew a company that ran a BA-11 > box off of theirs, but DEC *did not* support that configuration. > > It was a packaging issue. There should be no way to tell an 11/725 from > an 11/730 in software. > > -ethan So *THAT* is what an 11/725 is! Isn't the RC25 one of those drives that rates about the same if not worse than a RD53? What I was refering to is that VMS V5.1 is the last version to support it. Hmmm, now I'm going to have to dig up one of my catalogues and see if it's the 11/725 or another system that I saw a picture of and thought it looked cool. Could very well be, is the 11/725 a really tiny system that could go beside a desk? Zane From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 1 23:27:24 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VAXstation vs MicroVAX (was Re: dammit...) Message-ID: <19991202052724.12161.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> --- Allison J Parent wrote: > > > ???? no way. The base board does not have more than 4 usarts on it. Is > that an add in board? Yes. A daughter card for the CPU and a card under the skirt with a 36-pin centronics connector that has a H-mumble-mumble harmonica on the other end of a cable. The distribution card goes next to the SCSI-1 connector and the DB50P connector for the external RD53/RD54 drive. > My vax collection has: > > 3 VS3100/m10 (each has 24mb) plus two BA42 drive cases (each holds RZ56). > 1 VS3100/m76SPX 32mb, RZ24, RZ25, RZ26 TLZ04 tape. > 3 VS2000 (two with rd54 one with RD53 and one TK50Z) > 1 BA123 based MicrovaxII (KA630) 16mb, 2 RD53, RZ56, RX50) > 1 BA23 based MicrvaxII (ka630) 9mb, DHV11, TK50, RD54 > > All connected with 10b2 running DECnet. Well... to inventory... 2 MV2000 w/6Mb, 2xRD54 (one TK50Z-FA to share, one with DHT32 serial add-on) 2 VS2000 w/unknown (recently aquired from a friend's estate, untested) 1 uVAX-I w/4Mb, RQDX2+RD32+RX50 1 uVAX-II in BA123 w/9Mb, RQDX3+RD54+RX50, KDA50+shared RA81, DEQNA, TQK50 1 uVAX-II in BA23 w/17Mb, RQDX3+RD53+RX50, KDA50+shared RA81 2 11/750 w/8Mb and 14Mb, SI9900 each, Fuji Eagle, UDA50, Emulex serial, etc. 1 11/730 w/5Mb, RB80+RL02, DMF-32. 1 8300 w/16Mb, KDB50+shared RA81, DEBNT The uVAX-I, one uVAX-II, one 11/750 and the 11/730 were purchased by my former employer new from DEC. The 8300 was purchased used (at $12K), and I picked up the rest of the stuff in more recent years when stuff was essentially at "haul it out of here" prices when it could be found at all. Only the MV2000s are networked to anything. The 11/7xx machines are in storage for a while longer; the 8300 is set up in the basement, but I've never gotten the DEBNT working (cable issues, I expect; I only added it last year, played with it for a couple of evenings and moved on to other tasks). I've got a lot more VAX equipment than time to play with it, but once upon a time, I _did_ run a support organization from my basement (1992- 1995). Everyone has a 30A Hubble Twist-n-lok receptical attached to their breaker panel, don't they? I'm looking forward to a powerful VAX with modern low-power disks and minimal electricity consumption. I only wish it came with a TZ07(?) SCSI 9-track drive. Then I could easily archive my magtape library. > My fix, skip the connectors, soldered connection. Well... that's certainly one solution I hadn't considered. It *would* be more reliable, and really, how often do you need to change out a TK50 motor anyway? -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From bill_r at inetnebr.com Wed Dec 1 23:29:24 1999 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Results of Sealed-Bid Auction Message-ID: <38490286.3995915@insight> For what it's worth, here are the high bids on the items in my recent sealed-bid auction. Bidding on these items is now closed. If you want to make an offer for anything else, take a look at: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/computer-sale.htm Reasonable offers (which must at least cover my shipping and packing costs) will be entertained. I will be contacting the individual bidders on the items below via private e-mail to arrange payment and shipping details. --- Working H-89 w/external floppies 75.00 Non-working H-89 20.00 Apple Plotter 21.12 Box 'o' Software 10.00 Friden Calculators 42.02 Fulcrum S-100 Chassis 75.00 IBM PC Chassis 10.00 Modem Tester 12.42 Radio Shack Printer/Plotter 16.00 Tracer 5 1/4" 24.42 Kontron Logic Analyzer 20.00 TRS-80 Model 1 100.00 3 1/2" Floppy Duplicator 40.00 Tektronix 532 Scope 50.00 Tandy 2000 20.00 Panasonic Hand-Held Computer 21.00 Panasonic Hand-Held Computer 21.00 IBM PC Jr. Keyboards (4) 10.00 Apple Macintosh Model M0001, Serial # F4110WXM0001 20.00 North Star Horizon S-100 computer 30.00 -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r - Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From stanp at storm.ca Wed Dec 1 23:56:53 1999 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: DEC Qbus Card References: <3.0.5.32.19991128184114.00947970@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <38460A24.BCF59221@storm.ca> Bruce Lane wrote: > At 15:25 28-11-1999 -0500, you wrote: > > >I found an Emulex CU04...... Qbus card today. Being the curious type, I > >picked it up. > > > > 'CU' in Emulexian (oooh, new language!) usually means a communications > adapter of some sort. > > I suspect what you have is one half of a multiport serial setup. > Unfortunately, with Emulex, the other half is a lot more than just a distro > panel. There's a bunch of electronics in it as well, so you need both > matching halves for that unit to be useful. That's a drag.... ;-{( I'll have to keep my eyes open, but I think my chances are slim... Thanks for the answer!!! Stan From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 1 23:29:22 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Apple Adjustable Keyboard In-Reply-To: <0.bcffd36a.25775479@aol.com> Message-ID: >Would you happen to still have that keyboard? I know I'm sending this almost >a year after you posted your original message but I just figured I would ask. > I happen to have one of those keyboards and it grew on me. I didn't care for >it when I first bought it but I love it now. Unfortunately, its getting old >now and many of the buttons are starting to not work anymore or double type. >I have been trying to find a replacement for it but they are rather tough to >find. I really dont care for the current straight keyboards now that I am >used to the adjustable one its hard to go back. Not to mention that I tend to >make many more typos with a straight keyboard since Im used to having it >split all the time. Let me know, I would appriciate it. Thanks! > >macnut9765@aol.com I know I have a couple, but it may take a few days to actually "find" it among my growing computer house/warehouse ;) Remind me in a week if I haven't emailed you back by then. Cheers, Mike Ford From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Dec 2 00:41:10 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Wanted: Newer DEC serial terminals with PC-style keyboard Message-ID: <19991202004110.B16431@mrbill.net> Anybody know where I can get some newer (vt220 or better) DEC serial terminals that have a PC-style keyboard (or at least better than an LK201; I need something with a real ESC key...). I've got a mint-condition IBM 3151 with amber screen, if anybody's interested in it (or alternately, anybody know where I can get the VT100 "emulation" card for this thing? its a great terminal, just wont emulate ansi/VTxx...) Thanks. Bill -- Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using Windows NT for mission-critical applications." -- What Yoda *meant* to say From vincent.himpe at mie.alcatel.be Thu Dec 2 00:57:53 1999 From: vincent.himpe at mie.alcatel.be (Vincent HImpe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Anyone got PL/M compilers ?? Message-ID: <38461871.2954FDF5@mie.alcatel.be> Hi all Just thought i might try my luck here. I'm looking for *ANY* PL/M compiler ( PLM80 PLM51 PLM96 PM960 PLM86 ) for DOS . They cut development of these long ago but it's still my favorite language for low level stuff ( next to assembler ) anyone got any clue where to get these ? Vincent -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vincent.himpe.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 296 bytes Desc: Card for Vincent HImpe Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991202/5f243651/vincent.himpe.vcf From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Dec 2 01:40:52 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: 3100 SCSI and 1.07GB (was RE: VAXstation 3100 history) Message-ID: <19991202074052.28422.qmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > >I caught from a FAQ is that SCSI MicroVAXen don't like disks over 1.07Gb - > >too many blocks to keep track of with a 21-bit pointer. > Actually, that's not quite right. Plus I think the 3100/90 is likely to be > new enough that this isn't a problem. Most 3100's can't have a boot disk > that is over 1.07GB. The data disks can be over that. I wasn't clear. Sorry. Yes, the *boot* device can't be over $1FFFFF blocks long because of the limitation in the SCSI commands used by older firmware. One reason pointed out in the FAQ is that the system dump *could* overwrite the first couple of tracks if the disk is over 1.07Gb and conditions are right. As has been pointed out, VAXstation 3100s are not upgradable; later MicroVAXen are either upgradable or no upgrade is necessary. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Dec 2 01:51:28 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: DEC Backplane cleansing Message-ID: <19991202075128.19664.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> The ongoing PDP-8/L restoration saga adds a new chapter. I was working on a pair of them the other night and ran into an aggravating problem. The area of the backplane around D-02 through D-15 that holds the M310 delay line modules is giving me fits. I have the power-restart option in and on. I turn a machine on and it runs the lights in a random and pleasing fashion - the MA register shows some lights brighter than others and the AC occasionally shows changes. After a few seconds, the display gets more static - some of the lights in the MA get brighter than they were; some get dimmer. This indicates to me that the same region of memory is getting hit with a higher frequency. Now, here's the annoying part: if I stroke the M310 cards, the display usually goes back to a more random distribution of bits in the MA. The M310 cards are instrumental in the timing flow of TTL -8s. I appear to have a dirty backplane or loose backplane connector fingers. Without replacing sections of the backplane (don't laugh - I have at least one new-in-the-box p/N CAC-1 backplane section), how can I increase my connection reliability? The card fingers don't show any visible corrosion; the gold looks intact. I suspect the quality of the tin-plated steel in the backplane. Can say that these are especially tight, either. I'm not even as far as being able to reliably change and examine memory with the frontpanel. Diagnostics are somewhat distant aids at this point. I'm relegated to an oscilloscope and hand tools. Any tips? Thanks, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Dec 2 02:14:10 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek Message-ID: <19991202081410.8123.qmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Richard A. Cini" wrote: > Hello, all: > > Does anyone have a copy of the Basic source for Super StarTrek? It's > included in the book "BASIC Computer Games" by David H. Ahl (Creative > Computing). I don't have a copy in the original dialect, but I do have a machine-readable copy for the PET. I typed it in and modified it about twenty years ago. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Dec 2 02:29:14 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: classic basic games Message-ID: <199912020829.BAA06333@calico.litterbox.com> I just stumbled across an archive of classic computre games in basic at ftp://ftp.rahul.net/pub/rhn/classic.basic.programs/ -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From enrico.badella at softstar.it Thu Dec 2 02:39:00 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) References: Message-ID: <38463024.467A108B@softstar.it> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > [snip previous argument] > you can't run DECwindows Motif. The OpenVMS Hobbyist PAKs are actually > good for *ANY* version of VMS, however, the only version that's easy to > obtain is V7.2 on CD-ROM. Does anybody know where I could find a VMS 4.7 distribution tape? I have a uVax II with a badly tailored 4.7. Would it be ok to create an image of the boot TK50, zip it and ftp it over internet? When I got the machine I wanted to install 7.2 and got a hobbyist PAK kit for it, but after booting the CD from my RRD50 I stopped. I started thinking I should keep it in the same configuration as it came from DEC (not though what the previous sysadmin did). On a philosophical side, what do you guys do, preserve both hardware and original software or upgrade the software? On my 3100/M38 I took out the original RZ24 with 5.?, put an old IBM disk and installed 7.2. e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 2 02:44:09 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Wanted: Newer DEC serial terminals with PC-style keyboard In-Reply-To: <19991202004110.B16431@mrbill.net> Message-ID: Bill Bradford Wrote: >Anybody know where I can get some newer (vt220 or better) DEC serial >terminals that have a PC-style keyboard (or at least better than an LK201; >I need something with a real ESC key...). Let's see the VT220's and VT320's have the LK201, the VT420's have the LK401. These keyboards are interchangeable, and I believe the only changes are cosmetic. Personally I prefer the look/feel of the LK401. You might be thinking of the VT510's? I know we use a lot of them on our Auspex Fileservers as system consoles. I _think_ they have a LK450 keyboard, which is basically a keyboard. I know it's got a PS/2 style connector. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From enrico.badella at softstar.it Thu Dec 2 02:52:59 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: 3100 SCSI and 1.07GB (was RE: VAXstation 3100 history) References: <199912012147.OAA03449@calico.litterbox.com> Message-ID: <3846336B.62B70499@softstar.it> Jim Strickland wrote: > > > > > Very likely. Are *any* of the newer 3100's VAXstations, or just > > MicroVAXen? Off the top of my head with the newest models you needed a > > 4000 if you want a VAXstation. > > I have no idea. The last time I knew what was going on in the VAX product line, > the 4000vlc had just come out, the University I was working had just payed a > boatload of money for a 4000/500 (that I'm hoping to get my mits on when it > gets retired come spring) and the 10000 (Vax Mainframe) was still in the > catalog. Which brings up the next question - has anyone ever even seen one > of the 10,000s, let alone owned one? I have seen and used a 9000 that was downgrade I think to a 6000. The boxes still have the 9000 labels e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Dec 2 02:56:36 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <38463024.467A108B@softstar.it> from "Enrico Badella" at Dec 02, 1999 09:39:00 AM Message-ID: <199912020856.BAA06438@calico.litterbox.com> > On a philosophical side, what do you guys do, preserve both hardware > and original software or upgrade the software? On my 3100/M38 I took > out the original RZ24 with 5.?, put an old IBM disk and installed 7.2. I find it more gratifying, personally, when my collector machines can do useful work too. So my VS3100 has a seagate 1.02 gb drive with VMS 7.whatever and UCX on it, so it can be a useful member of my network. Likewise, my apple 2 GSs, when assembled, usually have a 40 or 80 meg SCSI drive feeding software to them. Heck, even my apple 2E has a 40 meg drive out of an old mac. I tend to think of these machines as representatives of an evolutionary step in computing in general, so I want them as far along as they got. I want the machine represented in all its final glory, not the (usually) half equipped embrionic state it was originally shipped. The upshot is, if you want the machine to do useful work, go with the latest and greatest version of VMS. If you want a museum piece that's historically correct, don't. IMHO they're not all that different, really, although the guts changed quite a bit. 7.whatever seems to run images I compiled under VMS 4.5 back in college without a hitch, and to me, the old software is at least as interesting as the OS. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 2 03:14:47 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <199912020515.VAA20633@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <19991202050411.21591.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 01, 1999 09:04:11 PM Message-ID: >Hmmm, now I'm going to have to dig up one of my catalogues and see if it's >the 11/725 or another system that I saw a picture of and thought it looked >cool. Could very well be, is the 11/725 a really tiny system that could go >beside a desk? > > Zane To follow up my own post... It is the system I'd been admiring. Didn't realize that was a RC25. Don't know that I'd want to try and keep one running, but that is one sweet looking system, 24.5"x17.5"x28.5". Of course it only shipped with 1MB of RAM, just what version of VMS was shipping in the Spring of '84? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 2 03:30:25 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <38463024.467A108B@softstar.it> References: Message-ID: >Does anybody know where I could find a VMS 4.7 distribution tape? I have I *WISH* I got a system a few months back with V4.x on it, and wouldn't you know, before I could get a backup of the (*#_@ @*&# RD53 it died. I HATE RD53's! One problem I see in less than a month, is that you need to be running V5.5-2 or newer to be Y2k. The first Hobbyist CD shipped with V5.5-2 and V6.1, IIRC. Note, in order to be Y2k on V5.5-2 and maybe V6.x or V7.x you need to take a look at what patches need to be applied. >a uVax II with a badly tailored 4.7. Would it be ok to create an image >of the boot TK50, zip it and ftp it over internet? Possible? Yes. Difficult, probably. OK, to do it? I doubt it. >On a philosophical side, what do you guys do, preserve both hardware >and original software or upgrade the software? On my 3100/M38 I took >out the original RZ24 with 5.?, put an old IBM disk and installed 7.2. I want to use the machines, and I want to cluster them. Technically that means the systems in my cluster should be running a minimum of V6.2 since the main systems in my cluster are running V7.2. However, I've got a mixture of V5.5-2 to V7.2 running. The thing to do is take a serious look at the memory footprint of what you want to run. On systems with only 12-16MB of RAM I'm running V5.5-2. I think UCX/TCPIP by itself requires 16MB of RAM on VAX Hardware (kinda hard to get on something like a MV2. Best thing you can do for good performance is lots of RAM. On the Alpha with V7.2 I've found that 64-72MB just doesn't cut it. It's OK at 96MB and just fine at 112MB (of course this is as a single user workstation). Thankfully VAXen aren't as demanding on the memory. Minimun RAM for V7.2 on Alpha is 64MB, on VAX it's only 16MB, which means you can just barely squeeze it on a MV2, and that V7.2 is the last version to support the MV2's. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From enrico.badella at softstar.it Thu Dec 2 04:02:22 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) References: Message-ID: <384643AE.2BC4B47B@softstar.it> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > >Does anybody know where I could find a VMS 4.7 distribution tape? I have > > I *WISH* I got a system a few months back with V4.x on it, and wouldn't you > know, before I could get a backup of the (*#_@ @*&# RD53 it died. I HATE > RD53's! One problem I see in less than a month, is that you need to be I can really understand you. In less than 5 months I've had 1 RD54 and 2 RD53 die leaving me with 2 11/73s with no OS because I never got the tapes with the machines. Must really find the time to look at the Unibus Qbus ATA controller by Dmitry Pryanishnikov Some days ago I posted a request about the status of IAS, but never saw it, probably went into some SMTP blackhole. If IAS is still owned by Compaq it would be nice to get a hobbyist license since Mentec is lightyears from providing is for obsolete OSes. > running V5.5-2 or newer to be Y2k. The first Hobbyist CD shipped with > V5.5-2 and V6.1, IIRC. Note, in order to be Y2k on V5.5-2 and maybe V6.x > or V7.x you need to take a look at what patches need to be applied. Does a hobbyist have to worry about Y2K 8-) I have enough of everyday's work of handling Y2K crap. > >a uVax II with a badly tailored 4.7. Would it be ok to create an image > >of the boot TK50, zip it and ftp it over internet? > > Possible? Yes. Difficult, probably. Why difficult? Just copy the SAB > OK, to do it? I doubt it. Doesn't the hobbyist license cover all versions and not just 7.2. I found an original DEC TK50 with VMS 3.3 > The thing to do is take a serious look at the memory footprint of what you > want to run. On systems with only 12-16MB of RAM I'm running V5.5-2. I > think UCX/TCPIP by itself requires 16MB of RAM on VAX Hardware (kinda hard > to get on something like a MV2. My uVax II has 9 MB, while the 3100 has 12MB; it runs UCX and DECNET and has better response time than the NT with 256MB I'm using to write this message. e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 2 09:19:57 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: old stuff Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991202091957.232fd5ce@mailhost.intellistar.net> Anyone interested in this stuff? Contact the owner directly. Joe >Return-Path: >Date: Tue, 30 Nov 1999 22:07:12 -0500 >From: Brian Mason >X-Accept-Language: en >To: rigdonj@intellistar.net >Subject: old stuff > >i am moving, jax beach florida, to hawaii. i have all original >equipment and programs for commodre 64 and ibm' first pc's with WORD and >many other original programs iw ish to sell to someone who would >appreciate this grand old equipment. could you please advise or give >some direction thanks brian mason 904-273-5282 > > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Dec 2 07:51:10 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Dec 2, 1999 1:14:47 am" Message-ID: <199912021351.IAA10846@pechter.dyndns.org> > > >Hmmm, now I'm going to have to dig up one of my catalogues and see if it's > >the 11/725 or another system that I saw a picture of and thought it looked > >cool. Could very well be, is the 11/725 a really tiny system that could go > >beside a desk? > > > > Zane > > To follow up my own post... It is the system I'd been admiring. Didn't > realize that was a RC25. Don't know that I'd want to try and keep one > running, but that is one sweet looking system, 24.5"x17.5"x28.5". Of > course it only shipped with 1MB of RAM, just what version of VMS was > shipping in the Spring of '84? To the best of my memory... something like 3.4-3.5 was about right for '84. The RC25 disk was supposed to be the least reliable thing ever made. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From scott at saskatoon.com Thu Dec 2 07:54:01 1999 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? In-Reply-To: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE1B@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Truthan,Larry wrote: > I have found that the Canadians call all thier electric power "hydro". The ^^^^^ > term is probably rooted in the early use of the Niagara escarpment for > actual hydo-electric power. But, IMHO it definately puts "Clean Spin" on > thier NOW heavy use of Nuclear power. Whoa there... I'm a Canadian and I've _never_ paid a "hydro" bill. Out here in Saskatchewan it's almost universally called a "power" bill. (The electric utility here is "SaskPower") ttyl srw From truthanl at oclc.org Thu Dec 2 08:05:04 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE1E@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> oops - meant St Clair River. Port Huron / Sarnia. -----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger [mailto:zmerch@30below.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 10:12 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: [OT] They're restarting Chernobyl? Rumor has it that Truthan,Larry may have mentioned these words: >Fact: Canada's largest Oil terminal and Refinery is on the St Mary's River >in Sarnia Ont. Fact: you've oopsed your Great Lakes geography... ;-) I was raised on the St. Mary's River (from age 7 up)... Still live nearby. Sarnia is across from Port Huron, MI. Urmmm... Dahhh... According to the quickie mileage graph I have, Port Huron & DeTour Village (southern outlet of St. Mary's River) are 349 Miles away... a goodly 275+ miles by water I'd guess. Fact: If the oil terminal is in Sarnia, it's on a different river... :-) Prost, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Thu Dec 2 08:07:29 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <19991201204520.28753.qmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Dec 1, 1999 12:45:20 pm" Message-ID: <199912021407.JAA11372@pechter.dyndns.org> > we were developing software and would have periods of several reboots per day > to clear device drivers. Since then, I've seen uptimes on the cluster at > Lucent > measured in months. > > -ethan Nice to see Lucent still has at least one Vax. Wish I could get an account or had the time to get my Vaxstation at home up. Bell Labs is pretty much Suns, PC's an occasional SGI or HP and no visible DEC. Boy the times have changed. I was the DEC install guy who installed 11/780's at the labs back in '81. Most Vax sites I worked on measured uptimes in months to years except for scheduled downtimes (most often system reconfigurations to add more hardware) or software upgrades. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Dec 2 08:13:27 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VAXstation vs MicroVAX (was Re: dammit...) In-Reply-To: <19991202052724.12161.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Yes. A daughter card for the CPU and a card under the skirt with a 36-pin > centronics connector that has a H-mumble-mumble harmonica on the other end > of a cable. The distribution card goes next to the SCSI-1 connector and > the DB50P connector for the external RD53/RD54 drive. Yes, I'd bet that's seriously rare. > 1 8300 w/16Mb, KDB50+shared RA81, DEBNT Seriously nice VAX. One of my MVIIs came from under my desk at DEC... It was and still is VIDSYS::. When I left I made a deal as they would have scrapped it anyway. That was in '93 when they disbanded the group. The system was original in '87 so I know it's history and all and it still runs! The reason it works so well is I planned ahead and have spares for every thing and never had to use them. Of course if I didn't have them I'd be looking for them. The only unique thing about the VS2000s I have is they 8mb, 12 and 14mb ram respectively. A note on that is MV2000 is not fast mostly due to disk IO but adding ram to the 14mb limit does really help if there is any swaping going on. Of course finding ram is the real trick. > > My fix, skip the connectors, soldered connection. > > Well... that's certainly one solution I hadn't considered. It *would* > be more reliable, and really, how often do you need to change out a TK50 > motor anyway? Never. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Dec 2 08:16:53 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Wanted: Newer DEC serial terminals with PC-style keyboard In-Reply-To: <19991202004110.B16431@mrbill.net> Message-ID: > Anybody know where I can get some newer (vt220 or better) DEC serial > terminals that have a PC-style keyboard (or at least better than an LK201; > I need something with a real ESC key...). The VT220 has an ESC key! try either f10 or f12. All the other VTxxxs use the same keyboard or the later version (same key layout and codes). If you really want an ESC key, find a VT100! Allison From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Dec 2 08:42:17 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Wanted: Newer DEC serial terminals with PC-style keyboard Message-ID: <991202094217.2020043d@trailing-edge.com> >> Anybody know where I can get some newer (vt220 or better) DEC serial >> terminals that have a PC-style keyboard (or at least better than an LK201; >> I need something with a real ESC key...). >If you really want an ESC key, find a VT100! Heck, I want a key! Tim. From foxvideo at wincom.net Thu Dec 2 08:43:30 1999 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991201103949.01b8bbe0@pc> References: <3.0.3.32.19991201100359.009bd020@207.207.0.212> <3.0.3.32.19991130184532.009750f0@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991202094330.007b31e0@mail.wincom.net> At 10:39 AM 12/1/1999 -0600, you wrote: >At 10:03 AM 12/1/99 -0600, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: >>I have some old modems (TRS-80, acoustic and etc.) which I would like to >>use (flashing LEDs are cool) so, I want to build a little telco emulator to >>interface with the modems in one of my Linux boxes. > I built a box about twenty years ago to ring a telephone on stage. If you find nothing better I will try to find the schematic. If I remember correctly it was four power transistors in a sort of flip-flop, and ran off dry cells. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo From KFergason at aol.com Thu Dec 2 08:51:41 1999 From: KFergason at aol.com (KFergason@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek Message-ID: <0.5a070070.2577e17d@aol.com> I have a copy, on paper, of the HP2000F version. sttr1.bas Kelly In a message dated Wed, 1 Dec 1999 9:56:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Al Kossow writes: > "I do have the > original SPACWR.BAS (Mike Mayfield, converted by David Ahl, I think) if you > want that..." > > it would be nice to find the original HP2000 version somewhere. The copy > that Jeff Moffatt has on the HP2100 page looks like a bad read. From jott at saturn.ee.nd.edu Thu Dec 2 10:02:58 1999 From: jott at saturn.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... Message-ID: <19991202110258.A1036@saturn.ee.nd.edu> Hello - I would be very interested in looking at the schematic. john In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991202094330.007b31e0@mail.wincom.net>; from foxvideo@wincom.net on Thu, Dec 02, 1999 at 09:43:30AM -0500 On Thu, Dec 02, 1999 at 09:43:30AM -0500, Charles E. Fox wrote: > At 10:39 AM 12/1/1999 -0600, you wrote: > >At 10:03 AM 12/1/99 -0600, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > >>I have some old modems (TRS-80, acoustic and etc.) which I would like to > >>use (flashing LEDs are cool) so, I want to build a little telco emulator to > >>interface with the modems in one of my Linux boxes. > > > > I built a box about twenty years ago to ring a telephone on stage. If you > find nothing better I will try to find the schematic. If I remember > correctly it was four power transistors in a sort of flip-flop, and ran off > dry cells. > > Regards > > Charlie Fox > > > Charles E. Fox > Chas E. Fox Video Productions > 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada > email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo > -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: jott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * *********************************************************************** From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 2 10:08:07 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Anyone got PL/M compilers ?? Message-ID: <001701bf3cdf$6c9c0100$0400c0a8@winbook> There were several PL/M compilers when I last looked at the "unofficial CP/M Web Site" which has been moved/closed or something but the files from which are purportedly still out there somewhere. Perhaps someone can fill us in. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Vincent HImpe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 11:52 PM Subject: Anyone got PL/M compilers ?? >Hi all > >Just thought i might try my luck here. I'm looking for *ANY* PL/M >compiler ( PLM80 PLM51 PLM96 PM960 PLM86 ) >for DOS . They cut development of these long ago but it's still my >favorite language for low level stuff ( next to assembler ) > >anyone got any clue where to get these ? > > >Vincent > > > From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Dec 2 10:30:56 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Wanted: Newer DEC serial terminals with PC-style keyboard In-Reply-To: References: <19991202004110.B16431@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <19991202103056.B21798@mrbill.net> On Thu, Dec 02, 1999 at 09:16:53AM -0500, allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > Anybody know where I can get some newer (vt220 or better) DEC serial > > terminals that have a PC-style keyboard (or at least better than an LK201; > > I need something with a real ESC key...). > The VT220 has an ESC key! try either f10 or f12. All the other VTxxxs > use the same keyboard or the later version (same key layout and codes). Yeah I know I can do ctrl-3 or F11 for esc, but when you're a VI user used to having escape somewhere on the "top left", having to take your hands off the keyboard to hit f11 is a pain. > If you really want an ESC key, find a VT100! Got a vt102 in my garage, complete with tilt and swivel stand. -- Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using Windows NT for mission-critical applications." -- What Yoda *meant* to say From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Thu Dec 2 09:34:41 1999 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Anyone got PL/M compilers ?? Message-ID: <01JJ0RXTWP6G935XL4@cc.usu.edu> >Just thought i might try my luck here. I'm looking for *ANY* PL/M >compiler ( PLM80 PLM51 PLM96 PM960 PLM86 ) >for DOS . They cut development of these long ago but it's still my >favorite language for low level stuff ( next to assembler ) There's a PL/M80 compiler written in FORTRAN IV on the Walnut Creek CP/M CDROM. I've used it under VMS and spit the source through Microsoft's F80 (it took a little tweaking and the resulting object files were so large there was no point in attempting to link them). Gene Buckle has a copy of the CDROM hanging off his CP/M page at http://deltasoft.fife.wa.us./cpm/. Take a look at http://deltasoft.fife.wa.us./cpm/cdrom/CPM/MISC/PLM80.ARK in particular. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Thu Dec 2 09:44:16 1999 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VAXstation vs MicroVAX (was Re: dammit...) Message-ID: <01JJ0SE3GYLG935XL4@cc.usu.edu> >The only unique thing about the VS2000s I have is they 8mb, 12 and 14mb >ram respectively. A note on that is MV2000 is not fast mostly due to disk >IO but adding ram to the 14mb limit does really help if there is any >swaping going on. Of course finding ram is the real trick. I have a MicroVAX 2000 that was used to test the hybrid data separator in the 3100 as they came off the assembly line. It has a plastic box attached to the top with a ZIF connector, which is wired to the guts of the 2000 such that the 2000 can reroute the data from the disk drives through the ZIF connector. The test app runs under VMS; it locks itself into memory, switches to the hybrid data separator, then runs tests on the data separator using the disk (RD32) from which it booted. I'll have to take a picture of it someday and put it on a web site somewhere. I wound up with it because the company that made the data separators couldn't figure out how to break into the system. I had the console auto-log into an account that just ran the test app. All they had to do to break in was hook a terminal up to the 25-pin port and punch ENTER... Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Thu Dec 2 09:49:13 1999 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Anyone got PL/M compilers ?? Message-ID: <01JJ0SKOUJVE935XL4@cc.usu.edu> >There were several PL/M compilers when I last looked at the "unofficial CP/M >Web Site" which has been moved/closed or something but the files from which >are purportedly still out there somewhere. Perhaps someone can fill us in. http://cpm.interfun.net/ is now the main site for the unofficial CP/M web page. Indeed there is a PL/M compiler at http://cpm.interfun.net/binary.html it's the 8080 ISIS version packaged with an ISIS emulator for MS-DOS that provides just enough functionality to run the PL/M compiler. Intel had this available for download from their web site (as well as a PL/M-51 compiler) for some time, but I haven't looked recently to see if it's still there. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From jallain at databaseamerica.com Thu Dec 2 11:34:07 1999 From: jallain at databaseamerica.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Wanted: Newer DEC serial terminals ALSO: Calma keyboard!!! In-Reply-To: <19991202103056.B21798@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <000001bf3ceb$702928f0$0e0301ac@dba00802.databaseamerica.com> On Thu, Dec 02, 1999 at 09:16:53AM -0500, allisonp@world.std.com wrote: >> Anybody know where I can get some newer (vt220 or better) DEC serial Then > If you really want an ESC key, find a VT100! So I really should reccomend this person: Look for the posting of Wednesday, November 24, 1999 7:30 PM Subject: another 11/60 "Hurry, these fine items will (must) go quickly!!! Alan Sieving, ars@quickware.com or ars@world.std.com Quickware Engineering & Design, 225 Riverview Ave, Newton, MA, 02466-1358 W: 617-964-5900, FAX: 617-964-5951 800-237-1185 for fast PDP-11's." He has set really resonable prices for me so far and said he had VT100's... I'd also like to ask the listers: Anyone have the keyboard from a Calma GDS-II or DDM system? They were really funky with big lights and switches and did an attention sounder I think with a big relay inside. They stood over 2" high on the tabletop. 1976 - 1984 era. I'd like to find one. THX. John A. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Dec 2 11:36:44 1999 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? Message-ID: <8025683B.006048F2.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> > I am just wondering what some of us collect that we consider the screwiest > ourselves. For example, for reasons I can't fathom I have started > collecting Apple logo AC power cords, and have a couple dozen of various > styles now. An off-topic thread that has already gone on too long - but I've only had time to reply to the "swords" subthread so far, so here goes anyway... Of the things I collect, mostly in small quantities, I think coins and cars are the only ones _not_ screwy. So: Classic computers (of course) Hymn books (full music editions if I can get them) Musical instruments. Ah yes. Musical instruments. Definitely the screwiest thing I collect. Why? I have only one piano, and a bassoon and a banjo and a guitar and ... Well, I collect electronic keyboards, the older the better, like classic computers. Heck, some of them practically _are_ classic computers. And I collect ethnic instruments from the strange parts of the world I visit. (I wish I'd bought that dulcimer in the traditional instrument shop in Bangkok...) Like, in Jakarta, I bought a gong. 28 inches in diameter, and weighing, um, I was going to say nearly 100lb but I think it's a bit less. I'll have to weigh it. I wish I'd known how expensive excess baggage charges are --- it cost me $700 US just to ship the damned thing home... When not in use at concerts and things, the gong does duty as my doorbell. I wondered about a mechanical system, but settled in the end for an electrical one: solenoid is driven by a monostable made from two relays. Screwy enough for you? Philip. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottingham, NG11 0EE, UK Tel: +44 (0)115 936 2000 http://www.powertech.co.uk ********************************************************************** From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Thu Dec 2 11:41:48 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: hey, have old computer stuff for sale, have to make some room here Message-ID: <8025683B.006153E2.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> 1 Mark wrote: > Hey all, I have a bunch of old comptuer stuff that I need to move to make > room here in the apartment...argh....I have some up for auction on EBAY, you > can look at those auctions if you wish at: [...] > Here is the other stuff I have here at the house, not yet up for auction. > Please let me know if any of you are interested. Has anyone responded to this yet? There's been so much traffic, I've been deleting a lot the last few days. Anyway, I might be interested in some of it, but, as we periodically have to tell the list, YOU MUST SAY WHERE IN THE WORLD YOU ARE!!! Even which side of the Atlantic you're on would be a help! Philip. (who is in Coalville, England FWIW) This E-mail message is private and confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, reproduction, modification or publication of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. This message is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. This company therefore disclaims all responsibility and accepts no liability of any kind which may arise from any person acting, or refraining from acting, upon the contents of the message without having had subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this communication in error, or if any problems occur in transmission please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0)2476 425474 From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 2 12:59:08 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? In-Reply-To: <8025683B.006048F2.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991202125908.00ee73b0@pc> At 05:36 PM 12/2/99 +0000, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: >Like, in Jakarta, I bought a gong. 28 inches in diameter, and >weighing, um, I was going to say nearly 100lb but I think it's a bit less. I'll >have to weigh it. I wish I'd known how expensive excess baggage charges are --- >it cost me $700 US just to ship the damned thing home... And that gamelan gong has a connection to computers, too: Gamelan music (playing in the background of shadow puppet plays) often has its cycles of rhythms at powers of two, so a large gong like that marks off time at, say, every 256 beats. This cracked me up when I learned that in gamelan class, much like the moment when aspects of the Japanese language reminded me of stack-based computer languages. - John From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Dec 2 13:02:36 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <19991202190236.29651.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> --- healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > So *THAT* is what an 11/725 is! Isn't the RC25 one of those drives > that rates about the same if not worse than a RD53? What I was refering to > is that VMS V5.1 is the last version to support it. I still wonder why. The only thing I can think of is that either the driver for the RC25 was removed or that VMS would no longer fit on an RC25 cartridge as a boot volume. The drives used two platters, one fixed, one removable, 26Mb each. You spun them up as a pair. When I got my 11/725 in 1988 ($4K), the guys who shipped it didn't ship it with a removable cart (they also shipped it sans grant cards and the terminator shoved all the way up the UNIBUS which fried the PSU on power-on). > Hmmm, now I'm going to have to dig up one of my catalogues and see if it's > the 11/725 or another system that I saw a picture of and thought it looked > cool. Could very well be, is the 11/725 a really tiny system that could go > beside a desk? It's a little larger than a BA123 and about the same proportions. I wanted one because it was the most affordable VAX at the time. I wish I still had it. :-( Fortunately for me, my boss paid the $4K, I only paid $1.5K for it. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From msg at waste.org Thu Dec 2 14:04:11 1999 From: msg at waste.org (Michael Grigoni) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: HELP! DEC AXP Serial Console References: <99120123434833@antinode.org> Message-ID: <3846D0BA.B30D1415@waste.org> Thanks for replies regarding the cable. It turns out that our cable wiring is ok and the AXP firmware expects 9600,8,1,n although it will display at 9600,7,1,e. Attempts to run 'cu' on the unix host (which provides the terminal session) at 8bit no parity creates a session at 8bit odd parity (a longer total frame) which confounds the AXP. Using 'kermit' instead is the solution for now. Michael Grigoni Cybertheque Museum From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 2 13:28:01 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <19991202190236.29651.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >I still wonder why. The only thing I can think of is that either the driver >for the RC25 was removed or that VMS would no longer fit on an RC25 cartridge >as a boot volume. The drives used two platters, one fixed, one removable, >26Mb Don't know about as a boot disk, but the RC25 is still supported. The SPD is kind of unclear though, says the minimum version for support is V6.1 and that it's Q-Bus. Of course it says you need Unibus for RL02's. I suspect it was a question of RAM. Looking at the configurations for the 11/725 and 11/730 it looks as if the 11/730 would hold at least a couple more MB. V6.2 is the final verision to support the 11/730, 11/750, 11/751, 11/780, 11/782, 11/785, the VAXft's, and MV I, VS I. The last version to support the MicroVAX II family is V7.2, I know that's because of the memory limit. >each. You spun them up as a pair. When I got my 11/725 in 1988 ($4K), the >guys who shipped it didn't ship it with a removable cart (they also shipped >it sans grant cards and the terminator shoved all the way up the UNIBUS which >fried the PSU on power-on). I'm wondering if it wouldn't be possible to replace the RC25 with a 3rd Party SCSI controller. Though I'm not aware of any 11/725's in anyones collection. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Dec 2 13:55:38 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <991202145538.2020046f@trailing-edge.com> >>I still wonder why. The only thing I can think of is that either the driver >>for the RC25 was removed or that VMS would no longer fit on an RC25 cartridge >>as a boot volume. The drives used two platters, one fixed, one removable, >>26Mb >Don't know about as a boot disk, but the RC25 is still supported. Definitely not for the boot disk. The most basic VMS kit (that is, without help pages, without libraries, certainly no DECWindows!) for VMS 6.1 won't fit in the 25 Mbytes available in a RC25. 6.2 "officially" requires more than 120 Mbytes for a basic installation, but if you fool its installation procedure you can shoehorn it onto a RZ23 (100 Mbytes) >I suspect it was a question of RAM. Looking at the configurations for the >11/725 and 11/730 it looks as if the 11/730 would hold at least a couple >more MB. Officially the 730 only holds 5 Mbytes. I don't know if there's any way of extending this. Remember also that the RC25, if the "fixed" platter is used as a system disk, can be spun down to change the removable data platter. The host OS needs to be aware that its system disk might be spun down, and it has to be patient enough to wait for it to come back up. The PDP-11 OS's know how to do this, and the last version of VMS to officially support the 725 with RC25 knows how to do this, but I don't know if they included support for this in the more modern versions of VMS. My 11/730, when I had it, ran VMS 4.6. >I'm wondering if it wouldn't be possible to replace the RC25 with a 3rd >Party SCSI controller. Though I'm not aware of any 11/725's in anyones >collection. I know of a 11/725 still running a monitoring/logging application at a nuclear power plant, booting from a RC25 under VMS 4.2. And yes, they could upgrade to a SCSI drive and Unibus SCSI host adapter. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Dec 2 14:17:27 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <991202145538.2020046f@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: > Definitely not for the boot disk. The most basic VMS kit (that is, > without help pages, without libraries, certainly no DECWindows!) for VMS > 6.1 won't fit in the 25 Mbytes available in a RC25. The last version that would fit on that had to be before V5! > >I suspect it was a question of RAM. Looking at the configurations for the > >11/725 and 11/730 it looks as if the 11/730 would hold at least a couple > >more MB. > > Officially the 730 only holds 5 Mbytes. I don't know if there's any > way of extending this. The minimum ram required for VMS went from 1mb to 4mb(as of V5.4) over the years. The 730 could take more ram, there were third party board for 8 and 16mb if memory serves. I've seen more than a few with 6mb of DEC ram. > how to do this, and the last version of VMS to officially support the > 725 with RC25 knows how to do this, but I don't know if they included > support for this in the more modern versions of VMS. As of V5.5-4 it did. Allison From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Dec 2 14:24:35 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Results of Sealed-Bid Auction In-Reply-To: <38490286.3995915@insight> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991202152435.00943100@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that Bill Richman may have mentioned these words: [price snip] What would you like for the Frank Hogg Labs CoCo cartridge port expander? I'll pay packing/shipping & some to give it a good home... Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Dec 2 14:50:12 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: Dang-Nabbit! Did it again... Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991202155012.009aa220@127.0.0.1> Sorry folks... I forgot to paste the !*#^@%$ return address in... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From normhanson at eudoramail.com Thu Dec 2 14:54:37 1999 From: normhanson at eudoramail.com (norm hanson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:00 2005 Subject: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/mlists/classiccmp/1998-07/msg00676.html Message-ID: Do you know any shippers who can provide the quality of service that "FORWARD AIR" has, to the Albuquerque, N.M. area???????? I am mostly worried about breakage, spedd does not matter........ I am shipping a very heavy brick-lined kiln........ Thanks............ Norm Join 18 million Eudora users by signing up for a free Eudora Web-Mail account at http://www.eudoramail.com From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 2 15:05:27 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: shipping Message-ID: <199912022105.NAA03684@spies.com> try contacting Airgroup Express (www.airgroup.com) there is also a large list of freight forwarders at http://www.sowest.net/users/jthomp1/ffchb.htm > Do you know any shippers who can provide the quality of serice that "FORWARD AIR" has, to the Albuqueque, N.M. area???????? From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 2 15:22:24 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 1, 99 12:41:13 pm Message-ID: >Argh!! You've got an intermittant connection, and they're the _worst_ to >trace... My reaction exactly. The connections in question _look_ OK, though obviously aren't. There are some others on the front panel that look even worse than what I can do with what I've got right now, and my questionable soldering skills. >It could be bad solder connections (although that's not that common in >machines as 'new' as the 8/m), it could be bad connections on the >backplane connections, it could even be cracked tracks on the board. Is there any way to check for either of these problems? >The nasty bit is that disturbing _anything_ will often 'fix' it. So you >think the last thing you did (resolded the LEDs, cleaned the backplane, >whatever) was the fix. And as soon as you get the case on, it's gone again. > >The thing to do is to see if you can find some action (moving a >component, bending the board, etc) that makes the LEDs come and go. If >you can do that you're getting close. Just make sure that you're not also >disturbing something else, though. Well, once I got the face plate off yesterday I was able to wiggle the LED itself in its 'socket' and it would come on. >When 2 instruments disagree you really should investigate further. Yes, >it may be that one instrument can't see the pulse (it's just too narrow >for it). Or you might really be seeing noise on a ground connection or >something. Oh, wonderful. I just took both the scope and the logic probe to both E46 and E39. They both gave the same results, the chip looks to be good. Something tells me this system is going to drive me crazy! But it means that what the scope told me a couple days ago is correct. >This machine sounds as though it's full of bad connections, alas. Have >you cleaned _all_ the edge fingers on all the boards? Have you cleaned >(and tightened if necessary) the PSU connectors. Have you cleaned the >backplane slots? I cleaned the edge fingers before even turning it on, though I think I'll clean them again. I'll have to take a look at the PSU connectors. I blew out the backplane slots with canned air, how can you do a better job of cleaning them? >Has it been stored under poor conditions? Not since I got it a couple weeks ago, before that I've no idea. I suspect it might have spent a short amount of time outside as I found a couple pine needles in it. >Personally, I use a Weller TCP iron. It's one of the Magnastat >temperature-controlled ones. It's a lot simpler (== less to go wrong) >than an electronically controlled iron, and it's Good Enough for >everything I'm ever likely to want to do with it. I find the #7 tip too >cold for many things and generally have a #8 in it. > >This iron is very popular with serious hobbyists and research/development >labs in the UK, which is probably a good recomendation. Sounds about like the one I was going to buy last weekend, but they were out of ALL of their Weller's except one really cheap looking model at the local electronics store. I know Fry's has a whole cabinet of different models, but I didn't fell like going down there twice in one week. Sounds like I need to plan on that Saturday. On a possitive note, either Saturday or Monday I'll have a 4k Core Stack and a 8k Core Stack. So I can see what happens with different a different core stack in place. I think I'll also be getting the spare M8330 at the same time, the pair of CPU boards will be coming later, probably in a week or to. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 2 13:14:58 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Fixing Basic Proggies (was: Basic Source for Super Star Trek In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991201211129.00a65d20@127.0.0.1> from "Roger Merchberger" at Dec 1, 99 09:11:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 451 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991202/a651b627/attachment.ksh From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Dec 2 15:53:44 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at "Dec 2, 1999 01:22:24 pm" Message-ID: <199912022153.VAA04684@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > > >This machine sounds as though it's full of bad connections, alas. Have > >you cleaned _all_ the edge fingers on all the boards? Have you cleaned > >(and tightened if necessary) the PSU connectors. Have you cleaned the > >backplane slots? > > I cleaned the edge fingers before even turning it on, though I think I'll > clean them again. I'll have to take a look at the PSU connectors. I blew > out the backplane slots with canned air, how can you do a better job of > cleaning them? I just vacuumed my backplane, but most of the gunk in my pdp8/e appears to be a result of deteriorating foam. I forgot, what was generally considered the best compound to use for cleaning pdp8/e edge connectors? I think it had 'gold' in its name... I used what I thought was a good quality contact cleaner once on some Terak boards (LSI-11 based computer) and though it worked, the boards sort of glued themselves into the backplane or something, making it extremely difficult to pull the boards at a later date. Obviously I wouldnt want to repeat this problem on a PDP8/e, it was bad enough with only a 4-slot quad backplane... -Lawrence LeMay From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 2 18:05:56 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: What did Ampex make that used core memory? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991202180556.48bf307e@mailhost.intellistar.net> I picked up a core memory board today that was made by Ampex's Memory Products Division. The date code is 8010 and the ICs are dated 1979 so it was probably made in early 1980. The sticker on the board sasy that it's a 32K x 18 memory. The board is BIG, 11 x 14 inches and has assemble number 3293212-01. Does anyone have an idea of what it's for? Joe From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 2 16:22:52 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: What did Ampex make that used core memory? Message-ID: <199912022222.OAA07180@spies.com> Ampex made core memory assemblies for a number of different companies A picture would make IDing it easier. 11x14 might be Varian or DG. From chris at mainecoon.com Thu Dec 2 16:33:03 1999 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: What did Ampex make that used core memory? References: <199912022222.OAA07180@spies.com> Message-ID: <3846F39F.C7517C2D@mainecoon.com> Al Kossow wrote: > Ampex made core memory assemblies for a number of different companies > A picture would make IDing it easier. 11x14 might be Varian or DG. Not DG. DG boards are 15 * 15 and the organization would have been 16 (most everything) or 20 (weird S/200 ECC memory) bits... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From sipke at wxs.nl Thu Dec 2 16:37:20 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: SC/MP References: <000901bf3c4e$315912e0$62aa08d4@compaq> Message-ID: <3846F4A0.C05173A1@wxs.nl> ISP 8A/500D = SC/MP1 Needs +5v Vcc & -7v Vgg Maximum clock Freq = 1MHZ ISP 8A/600D = SC/MP2 Needs +5v Vcc & GND (0v) Maximum clock Freq = 4Mhz internally divided by 2 so eff. 2Mhz Some control signals are negatively asserted IE: NBREQ vs BREQ on SC/MP1 SC/MP 1 & 2 are fully code compatible. I'm still working on gathering datasheets of old processors like SC/MP 8008, 4004, 4040 8080 etc. I will put the on a website soon. I'm also buzzy coding a SC/MP emulator. I'll keep you posted via this list Grtz, Sipke de Wal Netherlands > Danny Van Braband wrote: > > Hallo, > > While looking for info on the SC/MP developing system from National i > stumbled on this message from Alisson J Parent.: > > On May 30, 12:24, Allison J Parent wrote: > > Subject: Re: National SC/MP data > > > site > with > > including > > > on pin > > <40, instead of +5 Volts on the later NMOS versions. The actual part > No. > is > > > Some time ago i found one of these systems. It also included the > original datasheets from National. It says that the voltage on pin > 40 must be -7Volt. > When you need more info i can send you a scan of the datasheets. > > Unfortunately my system doesn't function. So i'm looking for the > scematics. Maybe you can help me out? > > > Greetings, > > Danny Van Braband > Belgium > > > From enrico.badella at softstar.it Thu Dec 2 16:54:49 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: What did Ampex make that used core memory? References: <3.0.1.16.19991202180556.48bf307e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3846F8B9.4B7A156@softstar.it> Joe wrote: > > I picked up a core memory board today that was made by Ampex's Memory > Products Division. The date code is 8010 and the ICs are dated 1979 so it > was probably made in early 1980. The sticker on the board sasy that it's a > 32K x 18 memory. The board is BIG, 11 x 14 inches and has assemble number > 3293212-01. Does anyone have an idea of what it's for? Probably it is from some 360/370 compatible or add on memory. In the early 80s I remember finding in a junk yard a bunch of red Ampex cabinets containing core memory and lots of xTL ICs. At that time I was more interested in salvaging ICs to build my things than collecting retro HW. I really regret not having pickup up any of the core boards. In that place there were also a bunch od disk drive that look like RM03s e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 2 15:47:31 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 2, 99 01:22:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3203 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991202/169561c8/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 2 18:57:03 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991202185703.233f486e@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 01:22 PM 12/2/99 -0800, Zane wrote: >>Argh!! You've got an intermittant connection, and they're the _worst_ to >>trace... > > >Well, once I got the face plate off yesterday I was able to wiggle the LED >itself in its 'socket' and it would come on. You may have corroded LED sockets, specially since you said it had been left outside. > >>When 2 instruments disagree you really should investigate further. Yes, >>it may be that one instrument can't see the pulse (it's just too narrow >>for it). Or you might really be seeing noise on a ground connection or >>something. > >Oh, wonderful. I just took both the scope and the logic probe to both E46 >and E39. They both gave the same results, the chip looks to be good. >Something tells me this system is going to drive me crazy! But it means >that what the scope told me a couple days ago is correct. > >>This machine sounds as though it's full of bad connections, alas. Have >>you cleaned _all_ the edge fingers on all the boards? Have you cleaned >>(and tightened if necessary) the PSU connectors. Have you cleaned the >>backplane slots? > >I cleaned the edge fingers before even turning it on, though I think I'll >clean them again. I'll have to take a look at the PSU connectors. I blew >out the backplane slots with canned air, how can you do a better job of >cleaning them? I use an old punch card and fold it in half a couple of times till it fits snugly in the gap and then dampen it with alcohol and work it around in the slots to clean them. Of course if you had a HP you wouldn't have these problems. :-) > >>Has it been stored under poor conditions? > >Not since I got it a couple weeks ago, before that I've no idea. I suspect >it might have spent a short amount of time outside as I found a couple pine >needles in it. > >>Personally, I use a Weller TCP iron. It's one of the Magnastat >>temperature-controlled ones. It's a lot simpler (== less to go wrong) >>than an electronically controlled iron, and it's Good Enough for >>everything I'm ever likely to want to do with it. I find the #7 tip too >>cold for many things and generally have a #8 in it. I agree. I have a Weller and it works perfect. I've been told that they no longer make the magneticly operated irons so you may have to find a used one. BTW the number on the back of the tip (7, 8, 9, etc) indicates the temperature that it regulates at. 7 = 700d F, 8 = 800d F, etc. The local surplus place has a large variety of tip styles and temperatures so I have plenty of different ones to work with. I like to use a hot one (800d) for unsoldering so I can heat the joint up and get the iron off of it quickly. But I use a 500 to 600d one for general use. >> >>This iron is very popular with serious hobbyists and research/development >>labs in the UK, which is probably a good recomendation. > Same here in the eastern US. FWIW I also have a couple of PACE solder/ desoldering stations but I never use them. Too big and ackward and they don't work a bit better than the Weller. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 2 18:58:49 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Anybody want any TK50 drives? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991202185849.233f5870@mailhost.intellistar.net> I spotted nine of them in Skycraft surpus store here in Orlando today. $5 each. They're marked "untested as is" but they look OK. No, I didn't see any tapes. Joe From philclayton at mindspring.com Thu Dec 2 17:12:17 1999 From: philclayton at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton / Computer Automation) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: HP Apollo Series 400 Message-ID: <000701bf3d1a$ae1acfe0$f6378ad1@server> Today I found several HP Apollo Series 400 Computers headed for the dumpster. These were used as I think some sort of Servers for a medical facility. There were 20 or 30 of them I only took 5.. Opened them up and they each have a SCSI hard drive and I think 32MB RAM, However they have no Floppy drive, ISA or PCI slots in them.. They support 3 serial ports, Parallel Port, SCSI Port, Kybd, Standard Network Interfaces, and Audio In and Audio Out.. They have a place for a second SCSI drive also in them. The Processor looks to be a Motorola 68040 I think.. I hooked up my VGA monitor and powered up , but it appears to be out of sync, or a non-standard VGA out put. I could see part of a color screen, but the screen seemed out of sync and not really readable. Does anyone know what these are ?, And other than parts are they worth anything.? Can I do anything usefull with them.. ? Thanks, Phil From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 2 17:15:52 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Anybody want any TK50 drives? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991202185849.233f5870@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 02, 1999 06:58:49 PM Message-ID: <199912022315.PAA06418@shell1.aracnet.com> > > I spotted nine of them in Skycraft surpus store here in Orlando today. > $5 each. They're marked "untested as is" but they look OK. No, I didn't see > any tapes. > > Joe > Full hieght, or half hieght? Zane From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 2 17:25:04 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Dec 02, 1999 09:47:31 PM Message-ID: <199912022325.PAA06678@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Well, once I got the face plate off yesterday I was able to wiggle the LED > > itself in its 'socket' and it would come on. > > Ah... Swap the LED 'modules' around -- does the fault go with particular > modules (in which case either replace them or see if you can pull them to > bits and fix them) or does it stay at particular places on the panel > (sockets, traces, soldering)? OK, both you and Joe seem to have misunderstood what I meant by 'socket', but then that really isn't a good word for it. The LED's are soldered to the circuit board, there is a plastic 'socket strip' that keeps them in position, and it's bolted to the circuit board. Well, don't know if that's any clearer. Let's just say they aren't sockets you actaully plug something into. > > >Has it been stored under poor conditions? > > > > Not since I got it a couple weeks ago, before that I've no idea. I suspect > > it might have spent a short amount of time outside as I found a couple pine > > needles in it. > > Argh!. I really would suspect contact trouble, then... Me to. I got a fairly good look in there today, and the contacts definitely need cleaned. I'm going to have to do something to try and clean them up. I'll have to give the soaked chunk of cardboard trick a try. I think I'm going to have to hold off on this until this weekend though, this sounds like something that will take quite a while. Zane From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 2 19:20:27 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: What did Ampex make that used core memory? In-Reply-To: <199912022222.OAA07180@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991202192027.2337fc3e@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:22 PM 12/2/99 -0800, Al wrote: >Ampex made core memory assemblies for a number of different companies >A picture would make IDing it easier. 11x14 might be Varian or DG. OK I scanned it and posted the pictures at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/a1/ampex.jpg" and at "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/a1/ampexb.jpg". The first one is the front of the card and the second is the back. The bottom and right of the front picture are cut off since the card is larger than my scanner.The RH looks like a mirror image of the left. Note that there are no connectors on the card other than the large gold pins around the edges. (Some of them are bent.) Joe > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 2 19:27:04 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Anybody want any TK50 drives? In-Reply-To: <199912022315.PAA06418@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19991202185849.233f5870@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991202192704.22ff505c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 03:15 PM 12/2/99 -0800, Zane wrote: >> >> > >Full hieght, or half hieght? Full height. Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 2 17:30:31 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: HP Apollo Series 400 In-Reply-To: <000701bf3d1a$ae1acfe0$f6378ad1@server> from "Phil Clayton / Computer Automation" at Dec 02, 1999 06:12:17 PM Message-ID: <199912022330.PAA06753@shell1.aracnet.com> > Today I found several HP Apollo Series 400 Computers headed for the > dumpster. > These were used as I think some sort of Servers for a medical facility. > There were 20 or 30 of them I only took 5.. > Opened them up and they each have a SCSI hard drive and I think 32MB RAM, > However they have no Floppy drive, ISA or PCI slots in them.. > They support 3 serial ports, Parallel Port, SCSI Port, Kybd, Standard > Network Interfaces, and Audio In and Audio Out.. They have a place for a > second SCSI drive also in them. > The Processor looks to be a Motorola 68040 I think.. > I hooked up my VGA monitor and powered up , but it appears to be out of > sync, or a non-standard VGA out put. I could see part of a color screen, but > the screen seemed out of sync and not really readable. > > Does anyone know what these are ?, > And other than parts are they worth anything.? > Can I do anything usefull with them.. ? > > Thanks, > > Phil Have a look at the following URL. http://www.netbsd.org/Ports/hp300/ I think the intended monitors were fixed frequency, and most defintily not standard VGA. You might get a good Multisync monitor to work. Also might require sync on green. The URL above should give some info on that though. Zane From ndiablo at diablonet.net Thu Dec 2 18:31:33 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <19991203003133.13653.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Well.... I dont know about those "minimum RAM requirements"... I've been getting away with running V7.2 on a VS3100/38 with 4 megs of RAM and a single RZ23 in it for a bit... can't do much with it though :) -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From ndiablo at diablonet.net Thu Dec 2 18:45:01 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: HP Apollo Series 400 Message-ID: <19991203004501.13992.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Wow, _very cool_ in my opinion :) Those are old HP/Apollo workstations. They run either HP-UX or Domain/OS UNIX. The Series 400 was the last 680x0 based series of workstations that were produced by Apollo shortly after they were purchased by Hewlett Packard. Definently interesting systems; especially if you got one running Domain... I believe you can run NetBSD on _some_ 400 series systems (perhaps just the 425t; I have not checked in a while) if you're looking for something a bit more current. They do need fixed frequency monitors to run; and I think the keyboard/mouse on them are HP-HIL (although there may be a second alternative interface also; i've never actually seen one; just read about them :) In any case, if you don't want one of them, and are willing to ship it, i'd pay a few bucks for one :) -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From dylanb at sympatico.ca Thu Dec 2 16:41:12 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. Message-ID: <001c01bf3d16$5615b020$7270e2d1@default> I was given the name of a company a couple of days ago through the company I am getting my Super Computers from. They told me to give this guy a call and see if he had anything I was looking for. I called the number and asked to speak with an officer of the company.. the answering service took my name and number. About an hour later the owner of *this* company called me back and asked me how he could help me. I told him I was looking for old minicomputers, not some flake.. paid for shipping and paid more than scrap prices... I asked him if he ever got minicomputers/mainframes in. (getting interested) He laughed at me and said his crew of *20* goes through and cuts up for gold more than 15 MILLION pounds of mainframes per year. (I thought he was full of shit). I told him my scrapping company name and he invited me out. I flew to his place and this is what I saw: When I got there I saw a huge building with an office. In the back of the building there were 4+ forklifts driving around like mad with skid fulls of IBM mainframes and dropping then op top of each other. When I pulled around and parked my rental car I saw a guy with a pair of shears inside an IBM 1130 :-( chopping it to pieces. I went inside this *factory* and 40 feet high in places were stacked super computers, minis, micros (apples, PS/2, micro vaxes, etc), and an unbelievable number of boards. After touring through the work area I found the office and talked with the owner (was rather busy).. He gave me a quick tour showing me some super computers they were hacking up, HDS (Hitachi data Systems), IBM 3840?, and some other water cooled high speed CPUs. It blew me away.. I never thought there was such a large gold processing site for this.. that's all this company does. They also melt down CPUs direct from IBM , Hitachi, etc... I missed a bunch of old DEC stuff by one day.. They guys were just finishing killing a bunch of PDP-8s and 11s. (here is the positive spin): Of course being in total shock (I never saw so many apple computers piled to the ceiling waiting to be stripped)... we talked price on some of the systems. I can't buy them from him at scrap prices *nor* will he put systems aside... I asked him if I could go through the warehouse and check for some parts (promised not to be a nuisance).. I found a heap of super computer boards and brought one to him [the other stuff I wanted had been butchered.].. he did not want to sell them at first as he was *required* to destroy them. We came up with a deal: Any mini/mainframe computer with front panel switches and light will be put aside for one week. I have to fly down every week to see what he has there (quickly) and purchase immediately what I want. As my references panned out he will allow me to purchase boards and equipment from him under three conditions: All serial numbers removed. I don't publicize what he is doing to historical computers. [don't know why he cared] I *agree* to destroy anything I buy from him ;-) **** His company generally pays $8-10K for a super computer as the raw materials when extracted are generally worth 4X that! [I did *not* know that.].. I spent more time with him and he showed me the insides of some of the huge IBM mainframes...[water cooled].. can't say I ever saw one before... He *only* new the metal content in every piece and $$$ .... HAHAHA (rather funny... no idea of the technology) We also cut a *really* sweet deal. He owns a transport truck line and his trucks pass through Toronto *empty* every couple of weeks.. he agreed to pick up any systems I wanted around the country, drop off the ones I wanted and he would pay me for the systems I would not want [every load must of course have a mainframe or mini for him). I bought some super computer boards at slightly above gold prices... [you will see them on EBay].. They are *amazing*. Processors beyond belief... I will update everyone with a list of the minis I get and will keep my eyes out for the systems in the wish lists I have received so far. Never in the world did I ever expect to see a few thousand minis, mainframes and micros being scrapped by so many people.... BTW: That stuff in his warehouse came in over the past two weeks *and* while I was there, there were 3 transport trucks waiting in line to dump off loads of water cooled IBM/Hitachi mainframes. On a sad note, on the way out I saw a front panel with all kind of lights and switches.. It was 8 bit and was made of plastic... It was called "data systems" or something like that.. anyway.. it was crushed. :-( I will try and take some pictures the next time I am there.. I know I am not supposed to do that but I think I can get a few snapshots of what is in there just by taking a couple of photos from the outside. I took a list of IBM numbers of what was in there and will post them later on tonight. In amazement and kind of annoyed, john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 2 18:01:48 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <19991203003133.13653.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> from "ndiablo@diablonet.net" at Dec 03, 1999 12:31:33 AM Message-ID: <199912030001.QAA07448@shell1.aracnet.com> > Well.... I dont know about those "minimum RAM requirements"... I've been > getting away with running V7.2 on a VS3100/38 with 4 megs of RAM and a > single RZ23 in it for a bit... can't do much with it though :) > > -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) I don't know if I should be scared or impressed :^) I'm surprised the V7.2 even let you do the install! What can I say, I'm impressed! I've got a friend that was rather frustrated when the V7.2 Hobbyist CD's shipped. He'd been able to run V7.2ft2 on his AlphaStation 200 w/48MB, yet the fullfledged V7.2 install wouldn't even let him install it on a system with less than 64MB. Zane From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 2 17:34:11 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991202185703.233f486e@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 2, 99 06:57:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2180 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991202/c52feedf/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 2 18:09:10 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: <199912022325.PAA06678@shell1.aracnet.com> from "healyzh@aracnet.com" at Dec 2, 99 03:25:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2427 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991203/992c9f5a/attachment.ksh From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Dec 2 18:30:40 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <991202193040.21e000cc@trailing-edge.com> >Well.... I dont know about those "minimum RAM requirements"... I've been >getting away with running V7.2 on a VS3100/38 with 4 megs of RAM and a >single RZ23 in it for a bit... can't do much with it though :) I'll be *really* impressed if you also tell us that you're running DECWindows in that tiny of a configuration :-). Keep in mind that "unsupported" doesn't mean "won't work". It just means "it might work, it might not, you can try it if you want, but if you have any problems don't blame us"! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Dec 2 18:33:41 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) References: <991202145538.2020046f@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <38470FE5.52903185@arrl.net> > >>I still wonder why. The only thing I can think of is that either the driver > >>for the RC25 was removed or that VMS would no longer fit on an RC25 cartridge > >>as a boot volume. The drives used two platters, one fixed, one removable, > >>26Mb Hope its not bad form to try to give something away in the midst of a discussion, but I find all this talk of the RC25 as an opportunity to get rid of one that has been taking up shelf space here. Anyone willing to pay shipping on it can contact me off list (it is HEAVY). Especially if someone in the Houston area can come pick it up and save me hastle of packaging it. This came out of a surplus sale many years ago. I've never been able to find a power supply/enclosure for it, so condition unknown. One pack also included. Nick From elvey at hal.com Thu Dec 2 18:41:17 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: <199912022153.VAA04684@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Message-ID: <199912030041.QAA20352@civic.hal.com> Lawrence LeMay wrote: > > > > >This machine sounds as though it's full of bad connections, alas. Have > > >you cleaned _all_ the edge fingers on all the boards? Have you cleaned > > >(and tightened if necessary) the PSU connectors. Have you cleaned the > > >backplane slots? > > > > I cleaned the edge fingers before even turning it on, though I think I'll > > clean them again. I'll have to take a look at the PSU connectors. I blew > > out the backplane slots with canned air, how can you do a better job of > > cleaning them? > > I just vacuumed my backplane, but most of the gunk in my pdp8/e appears to > be a result of deteriorating foam. I forgot, what was generally > considered the best compound to use for cleaning pdp8/e edge connectors? > I think it had 'gold' in its name... Hi Here is what I do in all of my old machines ( note: some of these have been operational for more than 20 years without a single contact failure ). First I clean any gunk form the contacts with a lintless swab and isopropyl alcohol. I then coat the contact with a thin layer of silicone grease ( such as DC#4 ). I insert the connector a couple of times and I'm done. Do not use ordinary grease, it doesn't work. Don't use heat sink grease either. The silicone grease is also good for flaky switch contacts and IC sockets as well. I have heard all kinds of reasons why to not use my method. The only one that I agree with is that once the grease is on a part, you can't get stamped ink to stick to the surface. This was a problem during original manufacture and doesn't effect old stamps that were already there. I'm sure that I'll get the same bunch of flack that this is a bad idea. My point is that it works. Short of replacing the connectors, I've not found anything that works as well. Dwight From lance at costanzo.net Thu Dec 2 18:58:36 1999 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991202165836.00691054@costanzo.net> At 05:41 PM 12/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >he did not want to sell them at first as he was *required* to >destroy them. >I *agree* to destroy anything I buy from him ;-) Very sad story, but typical of our times. I hope you can rescue some of it. FWIW: If he's under an "assured destruct" contract, and you're buying from him, then you both can be in a lot of hot water if the wrong people find out. Lance. From vaxman at uswest.net Thu Dec 2 18:57:50 1999 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <38463024.467A108B@softstar.it> Message-ID: Hmmmm... Can anyone distribute a version of VMS? I have a few TK50s with VMS 5.x on them, but I don't want to sell them (or loan them for fear of damage.) If I set up a private website, and placed images of the TK50s suitable for generating new TK50s from, would Compaq come after me? Copying the tape violates their copyright, but do they still care? Opinions anyone? What arrangement does DECUS (COMPAQus? COMus? PAQus?) have with DEC that allows them to generate CDROMs for the hobbiest license? Thanks, clint PS DONT ask for copies of my TK50s! I want a consensus about the legallity before I distribute anything. On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Enrico Badella wrote: > > > "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > > [snip previous argument] > > > you can't run DECwindows Motif. The OpenVMS Hobbyist PAKs are actually > > good for *ANY* version of VMS, however, the only version that's easy to > > obtain is V7.2 on CD-ROM. > > Does anybody know where I could find a VMS 4.7 distribution tape? I have > a uVax II with a badly tailored 4.7. Would it be ok to create an image > of the boot TK50, zip it and ftp it over internet? > > When I got the machine I wanted to install 7.2 and got a hobbyist PAK kit > for it, but after booting the CD from my RRD50 I stopped. I started thinking > I should keep it in the same configuration as it came from DEC (not though what > the previous sysadmin did). > > On a philosophical side, what do you guys do, preserve both hardware > and original software or upgrade the software? On my 3100/M38 I took > out the original RZ24 with 5.?, put an old IBM disk and installed 7.2. > > e. > > ======================================================================== > Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it > Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it > InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 > Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 > 10143 Torino, Italy > > Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, > manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals > ========================================================================== > > From vaxman at uswest.net Thu Dec 2 19:12:35 1999 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <38463024.467A108B@softstar.it> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Enrico Badella wrote: > > On a philosophical side, what do you guys do, preserve both hardware > and original software or upgrade the software? On my 3100/M38 I took > out the original RZ24 with 5.?, put an old IBM disk and installed 7.2. > Are you putting together museum quality systems? Or do you want systems to work/play with? In the former case, you need to keep the appropriate hardware, software, documentation, and distribution sets. For the latter, build a system that does exactly what you want it to do. Remember, this is YOUR computer, and it should be configured the way you want it. Most of my VAXes are running Ultrix 3.1 because that is the latest version I have for them. My 11/750 will run Berkley 4.3 (the appropriate software for that system). The VS2000 has VMS 5.4 so I can play with DECWindows (I don't have the Ultrix Window System 3.1 tape yet), but it will become Ultrix again someday. I have absolutely NO soft spot in my heart for antique disk drives. RD53s and RD54s are noisy pigs compared to modern drives. I purchased SCSI controllers for my uVAX II and uVAX III and installed 1.? GB hard disks in each. I am going to buy a SCSI controller for the 11/750 soon (maybe clinty-claus will bring one for me), and convert the Fujitsu Eagle into a doorstop (anyone have a missle silo door that needs a doorstop?) Laters, clint From vaxman at uswest.net Thu Dec 2 19:21:49 1999 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Anybody want any TK50 drives? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991202185849.233f5870@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: YES!!! I'll take them all if you are willing to buy and ship them! Let me know how much shipping is (and your finders fee :) and I'll send you a check. Thanks, clint On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Joe wrote: > I spotted nine of them in Skycraft surpus store here in Orlando today. > $5 each. They're marked "untested as is" but they look OK. No, I didn't see > any tapes. > > Joe > > From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 2 19:27:38 1999 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:01 2005 Subject: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? Message-ID: <19991203012738.74243.qmail@hotmail.com> Ok, Well I suppose I will add my odd collections to the list: First off, old computers, naturally. I also collect stamps, with a particular emphasis on revenue stamps I collect old documents with revenue stamps on them. This is why I have around 40 or so 1860's mortgages, all of them have revenue stamps on them. Along the same lines, I have an 1885 license to sell manufactured tobacco. I also collect various mediums for recording sound. I have a CD player, cassette deck, several turntables, a Rio, multiple reel to reel tape players (one of which is run by vacuum tubes), and a few 8 track decks. No wax cylinder player yet, unfortunately. I also have, as my secondary refridgerator, a 1952 westinghouse frostfree refridgerator, which still works great. I've started collecting vacuum tubes as well. I also collect classic cars, to which end I have a 1967 Plymouth Barracuda and a 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S. I also would like to get a couple of old tractors at some point. I also have a whole bunch of random car parts which don't go to any car I have ever owned (my honeywell lineprinter is sitting on a stack of Corvair rims in my garage). I'm sure I collect other weird stuff, but thats all I can think of currently.. oh wait, coins also. Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Dec 2 20:01:31 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) References: <19991203003133.13653.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Message-ID: <3847247B.65F76BD6@arrl.net> ndiablo@diablonet.net wrote: > Well.... I dont know about those "minimum RAM requirements"... I've been > getting away with running V7.2 on a VS3100/38 with 4 megs of RAM and a > single RZ23 in it for a bit... can't do much with it though :) Wow.... I HAD planned on putting hobbyist 7.2 on my recently acquired 3100/m76, 16Mb, RZ23(wiped). Guess I should set my sights on a bigger drive or older OS. Hard to believe that this machine came with such a smallish drive. Nick From dylanb at sympatico.ca Thu Dec 2 19:01:18 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. Message-ID: <000e01bf3d29$e96929c0$ea49d1d8@default> -----Original Message----- From: Lance Costanzo To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 02, 1999 8:07 PM Subject: Re: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. >At 05:41 PM 12/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > >>he did not want to sell them at first as he was *required* to >>destroy them. > >>I *agree* to destroy anything I buy from him ;-) > > >Very sad story, but typical of our times. >I hope you can rescue some of it. > >FWIW: If he's under an "assured destruct" contract, and you're buying from >him, >then you both can be in a lot of hot water if the wrong people find out. > I don't know if he is under assured destruct. The boards I purchased from him today were from a University Research Center (a supercomputer in their lab) so that would not fall under it (I imagine). I do know he is willing to sell me some super computers and some must have serial numbers removed... I have no idea what the game is yet.. I've only known him for 4 hours. I do know he will have his staff remove serial numbers if I purchase certain super computers??? john >Lance. > > From ndiablo at diablonet.net Thu Dec 2 21:08:17 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <19991203030817.17325.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Yeah, probably for the long term, but if you want something to play around with _right now_ its not bad in terms of responsiveness and very basic usability.... I pretty much crammed the whole base OpenVMS 7.2 VAX system on there (sans DECnet) and still have about 8 megs to spare :) Personally, I was rather surprised that OpenVMS would fit (usably, albeit not much) on such a small drive in the first place :) -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Dec 2 20:10:52 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19991202165836.00691054@costanzo.net> Message-ID: <4.1.19991202180745.04104220@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> >FWIW: If he's under an "assured destruct" contract, and you're buying from >him, >then you both can be in a lot of hot water if the wrong people find out. OTHOH I have gotten things that were scrapped under "assured destruct" contracts because the definition of "destruct" is "cannot be reconstituted to work in the original application." under those terms taking the PDP-8/M out of a machine tool "destroys" the machine tool because without its brain it won't work anymore. But the PDP-8 still does :-) --Chuck From Glenatacme at aol.com Thu Dec 2 20:14:45 1999 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: Emulation Good Guys / Bad Guys Message-ID: <0.b124821d.25788195@aol.com> I wrote: > > sites for the small computers I collect. Unfortunately there are groups in > > the US which oppose this activity -- not because any of the program > authors > > are objecting at this late date -- but because these groups propose that > > *any* form of emulation, or use of *alien* hardware, to run, store, or > > transfer these programs is illegal and should be stopped. Derek Peschel inquired: > That's a broad claim. Do you have any details about who those groups are? Yes. Some retrogamers I know have a group called CLEAR, which favors emulation. You can find them at: http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town/estate/dh69/clear/ For a look at the IDSA -- who oppose emulation -- check out: http://www.idsa.com/piracy.html Glen Goodwin 0/0 From dylanb at sympatico.ca Thu Dec 2 19:21:53 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. Message-ID: <001701bf3d2c$c82fe2a0$ea49d1d8@default> -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 02, 1999 9:18 PM Subject: Re: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. >>FWIW: If he's under an "assured destruct" contract, and you're buying from >>him, >>then you both can be in a lot of hot water if the wrong people find out. > >OTHOH I have gotten things that were scrapped under "assured destruct" >contracts because the definition of "destruct" is "cannot be reconstituted >to work in the original application." under those terms taking the PDP-8/M >out of a machine tool "destroys" the machine tool because without its brain >it won't work anymore. But the PDP-8 still does :-) > Thanks for that info Chuck. Most of the minis/boards I am pulling out I will try and restrict to University/Factory systems. I don't want to get in any trouble... but.. How the heck does he know which system should be destroyed or not?? (If you saw the place you would understand). If I do get the nerve to purchase a *huge* supercomputer from him (if it comes from a manufacturer) then I really can't resell it... >--Chuck > > From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Dec 2 21:40:45 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: documentation Message-ID: <199912030340.VAA05946@thufir.cs.umn.edu> Two things. First, if the person who acquired a Sun 1 last summer could contact me, I have a set of unused and probably in the shrinkwrap set of SunOS 1.1 manuals that they might be interested in. Also, I might be able to get some old HP documentation. 9000 series 200/300 if i recall (and primarily for 200). These are the old HP's with 5.25" floppy drives that we had back in the early 80's in the computer science department. The problem is, there is a lot of this HP doc, but its all in the sub-basement, and its rather difficult to justify getting a key to gain access to the sub-basement. There is a chance I will get getting the key once more, because we're trying to have a new phone line pulled through conduit down there. I also have a pair of IBM DOS 3.3 in shrinkwrap. These are in the standard book/slipcase style, and say they come with both 5.25" and 3.5" disks. There were also copies of TopView and some IBM network software in the same condition as the DOS, ie, book/slipcase, and shrinkwrapped. Still in the sub-basement though. For myself, I now have 12 wide, and 2 narrow 'placeholders' or whatever you call them, for 19" DEC racks. You know what I mean, those black with yellowish edges placeholders for filling in the spots on the 19" rack that are currently empty... *Big Grin* I'm always open to trade offers... -Lawrence LeMay From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Dec 2 22:11:15 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <199912030411.XAA01827@world.std.com> <> Well.... I dont know about those "minimum RAM requirements"... I've been <> getting away with running V7.2 on a VS3100/38 with 4 megs of RAM and a <> single RZ23 in it for a bit... can't do much with it though :) You can bet the system is slow though. It takes a lot of swapping to run at all in that little. get another 4mb and you'll be plesently surprized. < I have heard all kinds of reasons why to not use my method. References: <3.0.1.16.19991202185703.233f486e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991203001038.0a1f88a0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:34 PM 12/2/99 +0000, you wrote: > >Does this mean I should stock up on spare tips, elements, swtiches, etc >for these irons? It wouldn't hurt. But I was told they had quit making them a year or so ago so that may not be right. > >> one. BTW the number on the back of the tip (7, 8, 9, etc) indicates the >> temperature that it regulates at. 7 = 700d F, 8 = 800d F, etc. The local > >Yep. The bit of metal that the number is stamped onto is a special alloy with >the curie point at that temperature. That's how the thermostat works -- a >magnet in the shaft of the iron is attracted to the back of the bit, >closing a switch. When the iron gets to temperature, the alloy stops >being magnetic, the magnet is pulled away by a spring, opening the switch >and turning off the element. The iron cools down, the magnet is attracted >again, etc. > >In an emergency you can swap these alloy cylinders between bits if you >have the wrong combination of shape and temperature. > >> surplus place has a large variety of tip styles and temperatures so I have >> plenty of different ones to work with. I like to use a hot one (800d) for >> unsoldering so I can heat the joint up and get the iron off of it quickly. >> But I use a 500 to 600d one for general use. > >Be warned that a relatively cold iron can do _more_ thermal damage than a >hot one. _All_ irons are hot, and if you use a colder one you keep it on >too long to complete the connection and thus overheat the component. > >I find a #8 good for almost all work. A #7 is useable, but I don't like >it. #5 or #6 is too cold... You're right. I meant to add that the solder that I'm using is a very low temperature solder with silver in it. 500 or 600 degrees would be too cold for standard solder. I love this silver stuff, it expensive but it flows beautifully. Most of the stuff that I work on is tiny so a one ounce roll will last for a couple of years. Joe > >-tony > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 3 00:14:47 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19991202165836.00691054@costanzo.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991203001447.23172ee8@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:58 PM 12/2/99 -0800, you wrote: > >FWIW: If he's under an "assured destruct" contract, and you're buying from >him, >then you both can be in a lot of hot water if the wrong people find out. I know a couple of scrappers that have these kinds of contracts. They would risk losing their contract for ANY amount of money! It's a dammed shame to see all that stuff being scrapped and there's nothing that I can do about it. Joe From ndiablo at diablonet.net Thu Dec 2 23:23:34 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <19991203052334.21085.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Really, in my opinion; its not _extremely_ bad just for some basic poking around in VMS (which is all I can really do with such a minimal install anyways :) I once had a 386SX-16 running like Slackware Linux 3.5 as a NAT gateway on my LAN with 4 megs of RAM... after that, pretty much anything else seems fast (considering it pretty much ran from swap :) I'd like to get some more RAM for it.. originally, it had a 6 meg expansion board, but it turned out to be bad so I removed it.. I'd like to get the system expanded to something a bit more usable, but i've not had much luck tracking down memory (and I gather the stuff that is out there usually is a bit expensive). On the other hand, I'm looking into getting a VAXstation 4000/VLC with 24 meg, which should be a little bit more useful for general VMS exploration.. then I could set aside the 3100 more for preservation and "waiting for parts". -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 3 00:26:06 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. In-Reply-To: <001701bf3d2c$c82fe2a0$ea49d1d8@default> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991203002606.0997b792@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:21 PM 12/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > > > > >>>FWIW: If he's under an "assured destruct" contract, and you're buying from >>>him, >>>then you both can be in a lot of hot water if the wrong people find out. >> >>OTHOH I have gotten things that were scrapped under "assured destruct" >>contracts because the definition of "destruct" is "cannot be reconstituted >>to work in the original application." That's essentually what the DOD requires now. I think their wording is that it "can't be used for it's intended purpose." But many scrappers are absoulutely forbidden to sell ANY circuit cards one some contacts no matter who made it or what it's for. I know one scrapper that is also forbidden to sell ANY intact components, even resistors and the like. Joe under those terms taking the PDP-8/M >>out of a machine tool "destroys" the machine tool because without its brain >>it won't work anymore. But the PDP-8 still does :-) >> > > >Thanks for that info Chuck. > >Most of the minis/boards I am pulling out I will try and restrict to >University/Factory systems. I don't want to get in any trouble... but.. How >the heck does he know which system should be destroyed or not?? (If you saw >the place you would understand). > >If I do get the nerve to purchase a *huge* supercomputer from him (if it >comes from a manufacturer) then I really can't resell it... > >>--Chuck >> >> > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Dec 2 23:42:57 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: VAX 11/725 Message-ID: <19991203054257.13491.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > To the best of my memory... something like 3.4-3.5 was about right > for '84. My first exposure to VMS was around September, 1984. ISTR that it was 3.4. It was on an 11/750 w/8Mb+RA81. My employer paid $26,000 for that drive, too. > The RC25 disk was supposed to be the least reliable thing ever made. Hmm... I never had a lick of problem with mine. Maybe I was just lucky. I can say that it broke no speed records, though. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Dec 3 00:03:44 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: TK50 orientation? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991202185849.233f5870@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991202220128.0225ee30@mcmanis.com> Does anyone know what the "official" word is on TK50 orientation? By orientation I mean can I put a TK50 drive in a BA123 in the "sideways" slot? (Tape slot's long direction is vertical) I notice that they would have to be that way in a BA23 in a floor stand. And speaking of BA23's, does anyone have a spare floor stand? I've got a VAXStation 3200 that I'd like to put in a floor unit (I've currently got it in a rack shelf.) --Chuck From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Dec 2 23:57:32 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: VAXstation vs MicroVAX (was Re: dammit...) Message-ID: <19991203055732.14161.qmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> --- allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > Yes. A daughter card for the CPU and a card under the skirt... > > Yes, I'd bet that's seriously rare. I've only ever seen the one. > > 1 8300 w/16Mb, KDB50+shared RA81, DEBNT > > Seriously nice VAX. Thanks. We got it c. 1989 for VAXBI development. I got to write the firmware and device driver for our intellegent serial card. I currently have a box in the basement with 80% of the world's production of it - 8 cards out of 10. After all the development, it was never a big seller due to the fact that the world had moved on. At least we priced the card high enough to break even on the production costs and the cost on the 8300, barely. If you've ever wondered why VAXBI SCSI cards cost so much, it's because a) they can and b) nobody ever sold more than a handful of anything for the VAXBI except DEC. > The only unique thing about the VS2000s I have is they 8mb, 12 and 14mb > ram respectively. Isn't it 4Mb, 6Mb, 12Mb and 14Mb? I have a 4Mb add-in card and one that is half-full, but no 12Mb add-in cards. :-( > A note on that is MV2000 is not fast mostly due to disk > IO but adding ram to the 14mb limit does really help if there is any > swaping going on. Of course finding ram is the real trick. Indeed. I know that when I looked at expanding my MV2000s, buying a ram card from a reseller was always more expensive than the CPU itself. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Dec 3 00:03:53 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <19991203060353.15936.qmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > > Since then, I've seen uptimes on the cluster at Lucent measured in months. > > > > -ethan > > Nice to see Lucent still has at least one Vax. Wish I could get an > account or had the time to get my Vaxstation at home up. When my contract ran out in April, they were still a couple of projects running on the cluster of an 8550 (now defunct and a source of parts), an 8700, an 8810 and some model of 7000. There were numerous 8650s and 88xxs and many stripped shells of 6xxxs earlier this year. As I've written before, no chance of rescue. :-( The VAXen, at least, being as big as they are and that particular data center being as lightly used as it is, they haven't bothered to clear out the machines. It's easier to leave them where they sit than to move them. Perhaps they'll clean house in the New Year. Oh... I almost forgot about the pair of RP06 drives sitting in the middle of the room with nothing to talk to. There is *nothing* anywhere in there that could *possibly* have a MASSBUS. I suppose that, given the large space _near_ the RPs that there was once a 785 or something similar but has been gone for years. > Bell Labs is pretty much Suns, PC's an occasional SGI or HP and > no visible DEC. Boy the times have changed. I was the DEC install guy > who installed 11/780's at the labs back in '81. I should be more precise - I was referring to the Columbus Works, not anyplace on the East Coast. I would be seriously surprised if you ever installed a system in Ohio. My primary job there was to be "The Sun Guy". Everybody else was an NCR expert. They still have lots of them there, but NCR is just down the road in Dayton. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From dburrows at netpath.net Fri Dec 3 00:14:57 1999 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: TK50 orientation? Message-ID: <018e01bf3d55$c16fd730$a652e780@L166> Works fine either way. Mine is in the side slot and the top slot is for the RX33's. Do you just need the foot or the complete shell for the BA23? I have a bunch but the shell is a real PITA to ship. I have a H*** of a time finding boxes for them. I even checked on having some made. About $4.50 ea. with a 100 minimum quantity. Dan -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 03, 1999 1:03 AM Subject: TK50 orientation? >Does anyone know what the "official" word is on TK50 orientation? By >orientation I mean can I put a TK50 drive in a BA123 in the "sideways" >slot? (Tape slot's long direction is vertical) I notice that they would >have to be that way in a BA23 in a floor stand. > >And speaking of BA23's, does anyone have a spare floor stand? I've got a >VAXStation 3200 that I'd like to put in a floor unit (I've currently got it >in a rack shelf.) > >--Chuck > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 3 00:34:47 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19991202165836.00691054@costanzo.net> Message-ID: Maybe its just my personal sensitive spot, but cutting up a IBM 1130 for gold makes me what to flay somebody. From mrdos at swbell.net Fri Dec 3 00:49:47 1999 From: mrdos at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. Message-ID: <001701bf3d5a$9e3cd100$d22ba497@compaq> I couldn't agree more. I can't stand people who will gladly destroy a computer as classic as an IBM 1130 for the gold. There are some things that are more important than money. (To us, anyway.) >Maybe its just my personal sensitive spot, but cutting up a IBM 1130 for >gold makes me what to flay somebody. > > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Dec 3 01:44:22 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <19991203074422.9640.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> --- allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > The last version that would fit on that had to be before V5! I got some RC25 carts (now gone with the departed 11/725) from a local company that used their 11/725 as a boot manager for the office VS2000s. It was running VMS 5.0. It *barely* fit and was probably not supported. > > Officially the 730 only holds 5 Mbytes. I don't know if there's any > > way of extending this. I think the official max for the 11/725 might have been 3 or 4Mb, possibly due to cooling restrictions - it was the same power supply as the 11/730-Z, so it wasn't power, per se. I had 5Mb in my 11/725 and never had a problem, supported configuration or no. > The minimum ram required for VMS went from 1mb to 4mb(as of V5.4) over the > years. The 730 could take more ram, there were third party board for 8 > and 16mb if memory serves. I've seen more than a few with 6mb of DEC ram. I never saw a third-party board over 1Mb for the 11/730, not that there weren't such beasts. My employer would have bought one if it were under $500/Mb. We did have some EMC 1Mb boards that used 256x1 DRAMs - same board size as a DEC 1Mb board, of course, but 90% empty. I threw them into the 11/730 as we found them because they obviously used less power and generated less heat. Good, solid boards. Never had one fail (can't say the same for the DEC boards, but we did have every machine maxxed out providing more statistical chances for failures). -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From enrico.badella at softstar.it Fri Dec 3 02:03:04 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) References: <19991203003133.13653.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> <3847247B.65F76BD6@arrl.net> Message-ID: <38477938.C8412F5E@softstar.it> Nick Oliviero wrote: > > ndiablo@diablonet.net wrote: > > > Well.... I dont know about those "minimum RAM requirements"... I've been > > getting away with running V7.2 on a VS3100/38 with 4 megs of RAM and a > > single RZ23 in it for a bit... can't do much with it though :) > > Wow.... I HAD planned on putting hobbyist 7.2 on my recently acquired > 3100/m76, 16Mb, RZ23(wiped). Guess I should set my sights on a bigger drive > or older OS. Hard to believe that this machine came with such a smallish > drive. I'm running 7.2 + DECNET + UCX + 2 or 3 xterms and once in a while DEC C on a 3100/M38 with 12MB RAM. Not fast as my SPARC Ultra 5 but response time degrades much better that on micro$haft No Technology e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From enrico.badella at softstar.it Fri Dec 3 02:07:53 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:02 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) References: <199912030411.XAA02248@world.std.com> Message-ID: <38477A59.3C462739@softstar.it> Allison J Parent wrote: > > > You can copy or give them away under the hobby license program. So if > you have a working system and TK50 you could copy them onto someone elses > media. they would have to get a DECUS license for their system. If this is confirmed, is there anybody with a VMS 4.7 tape willing to make a zipped image of it and ftp to my account? TIA e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 3 02:22:51 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <19991203052334.21085.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Message-ID: >Really, in my opinion; its not _extremely_ bad just for some basic poking >around in VMS (which is all I can really do with such a minimal install >anyways :) I once had a 386SX-16 running like Slackware Linux 3.5 as a >NAT gateway on my LAN with 4 megs of RAM... after that, pretty much >anything else seems fast (considering it pretty much ran from swap :) Ah, BUT were you running X-Windows on that system. I've run X-Windows on a 386SX-16 Monochrome Laptop w/4MB RAM, a 387 coprocessor, and a 345MB HD. It wasn't a lot of fun, but for what I was doing it was faster than running MGR (which is supposed to be a really lightweight GUI for UNIX). Actually for basic stuff X-Window performance wasn't *that* bad, it was kernel compiles that would kill you! Zane. | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From alec.sibbald at gecm.com Fri Dec 3 00:29:49 1999 From: alec.sibbald at gecm.com (alec.sibbald@gecm.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: HP87XM Message-ID: <6649290803121999/A44159/CASTLE/11DC1A1D3100*@MHS> Can anybody tell me if a basic application running on an HP87XM will also run on an HP200/300 series Cheers Alec From alec.sibbald at gecm.com Fri Dec 3 01:41:57 1999 From: alec.sibbald at gecm.com (alec.sibbald@gecm.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: HP87XM In-Reply-To: <6649290803121999/A44159/CASTLE/11DC1A1D3100@mspm02.btdc.gecm.com> Message-ID: <6957410803121999/A44269/CASTLE/11DC1A293900*@MHS> And if not, does anybody have an HP87XM for sale. >Can anybody tell me if a basic application running on an HP87XM will >also run on an HP200/300 series > >Cheers > >Alec ------------------------------------------ Alec Sibbald Senior Development Engineer BAE Systems - MSD(E) 1 South Gyle Crescent Edinburgh EH12 9HQ Tel: (44)131-314 8155 Fax: (44)131-314 8353 alec.sibbald@gecm.com http://www.gec-marconi.com From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Fri Dec 3 05:18:43 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? Message-ID: <8025683C.003EA712.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> >>Like, in Jakarta, I bought a gong. 28 inches in diameter, and >>weighing, um, I was going to say nearly 100lb but I think it's a bit less. > I'll >>have to weigh it. I wish I'd known how expensive excess baggage charges > are --- >>it cost me $700 US just to ship the damned thing home... > > And that gamelan gong has a connection to computers, too: Gamelan > music (playing in the background of shadow puppet plays) often > has its cycles of rhythms at powers of two, so a large gong > like that marks off time at, say, every 256 beats. Hey, I'd not spotted that. Yes, gamelan music is very binary: although the very slowest pulse (marked by the gong ageng) may not be a binary multiple of the next one up (gong suwukan, which is what I think I have), all the others are indeed binary subdivisions. One characteristic of gamelan music is that it tends to subdivide so far, and slow down so much, that I lose track of the tune in irama wilet or anything slower (I can't remember the names of half of these, it's so long ago) Something I never managed on either trip to Jakarta was to watch a wayang show. Oh well. > This cracked me up when I learned that in gamelan class, much like > the moment when aspects of the Japanese language reminded me of > stack-based computer languages. I don't know any Japanese so I can't comment. But German has a tendency to a verb on the stack, rather than say it, and leave it there until you've what the sentence is about forgotten, put :-) Philip. (Who back in 1988 wanted to call the student-designed college network "gamma-LAN") This E-mail message is private and confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, reproduction, modification or publication of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. This message is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. This company therefore disclaims all responsibility and accepts no liability of any kind which may arise from any person acting, or refraining from acting, upon the contents of the message without having had subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this communication in error, or if any problems occur in transmission please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0)2476 425474 From af-list at is1.wfi-inc.com Fri Dec 3 05:29:02 1999 From: af-list at is1.wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You haven't lived until you've compiled the Linux kernel on a Sparc1. The numbers are the same as your laptop with the exception of your huge hard drive (mine was only 200mb)... Grinning with nostalgia, Aaron On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >Really, in my opinion; its not _extremely_ bad just for some basic poking > >around in VMS (which is all I can really do with such a minimal install > >anyways :) I once had a 386SX-16 running like Slackware Linux 3.5 as a > >NAT gateway on my LAN with 4 megs of RAM... after that, pretty much > >anything else seems fast (considering it pretty much ran from swap :) > > Ah, BUT were you running X-Windows on that system. I've run X-Windows on a > 386SX-16 Monochrome Laptop w/4MB RAM, a 387 coprocessor, and a 345MB HD. > It wasn't a lot of fun, but for what I was doing it was faster than running > MGR (which is supposed to be a really lightweight GUI for UNIX). Actually > for basic stuff X-Window performance wasn't *that* bad, it was kernel > compiles that would kill you! > > Zane. > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Fri Dec 3 05:41:49 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? Message-ID: <8025683C.004061D6.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > I also collect various mediums for recording sound. I have a CD player, > cassette deck, several turntables, a Rio, multiple reel to reel tape players > (one of which is run by vacuum tubes), and a few 8 track decks. No wax > cylinder player yet, unfortunately. Darn! How could I forget. I collect LPs (long playing records). I also collect 78 rpm records, which I play on a wind-up gramophone, but I don't collect many, because I seldom find any with music that I like (= mostly 20th century classical, FWIW [**]). I also collect CDs, but only if I can't get the recording on LP. I have some 8-track tapes, but I passed up the only player I ever saw and have regretted it ever since... (it was at a car boot sale and I had already bought as much as I could carry home. I hadn't brought the car) > I also have, as my secondary refridgerator, a 1952 westinghouse frostfree > refridgerator, which still works great. I've started collecting vacuum tubes Nice. It's not long since my parents got rid of the huge LEC refrigerator that they acquired secondhand in 1973 [*]. Nice beast, but the door latch was broken and would have needed a custom casting to repair. We held it shut with bungee straps for years. Can't remember what finally killed it. Goodness knows what date it was, but I'd guess 1950s. Philip. [*] Bought a house that had been a shop. The fridge had been installed in the shop, and was left in the house by the previous owners. [**] Top of my wish list: Did Bartok ever make a recording of his first or second piano concertos? This E-mail message is private and confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, reproduction, modification or publication of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. This message is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. This company therefore disclaims all responsibility and accepts no liability of any kind which may arise from any person acting, or refraining from acting, upon the contents of the message without having had subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this communication in error, or if any problems occur in transmission please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0)2476 425474 From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Fri Dec 3 05:47:21 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) Message-ID: <8025683C.00416215.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > You're right. I meant to add that the solder that I'm using is a very > low temperature solder with silver in it. 500 or 600 degrees would be too > cold for standard solder. I love this silver stuff, it expensive but it > flows beautifully. Most of the stuff that I work on is tiny so a one ounce > roll will last for a couple of years. Eh? Silver solder is certainly very nice, flows well, bonds to a lot of metals, etc., but isn't it usually _higher_ melting point? Conventional solder melts at around 450 F, I think. (Anyone have the exact figure?), silver solder typically at 600. Philip. This E-mail message is private and confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, reproduction, modification or publication of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. This message is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. This company therefore disclaims all responsibility and accepts no liability of any kind which may arise from any person acting, or refraining from acting, upon the contents of the message without having had subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this communication in error, or if any problems occur in transmission please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0)2476 425474 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 3 09:01:51 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: HP87XM In-Reply-To: <6649290803121999/A44159/CASTLE/11DC1A1D3100*@MHS> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991203090151.09bf794e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Alex, Not without being re-written. There was supposed to be a translator program for it but I've never found it and I've heard that it didn't work very well. I don't think the disks formats were even compatible. Joe At 07:29 AM 12/3/99 +0100, you wrote: >Can anybody tell me if a basic application running on an HP87XM will >also run on an HP200/300 series > >Cheers > >Alec > > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Fri Dec 3 07:59:55 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <19991203060353.15936.qmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Dec 2, 1999 10: 3:53 pm" Message-ID: <199912031359.IAA35591@pechter.dyndns.org> > My primary job there was to be "The Sun Guy". Everybody else was an NCR > expert. They still have lots of them there, but NCR is just down the road > in Dayton. > > -ethan > Boy you can't even find any NCR stuff around the labs anymore. I've got one box laying in my lab along with one StarServer E with a 486/33. Neither one's been powered up in over two years. We still are running Sparc2's though. I just semi-retired the Sparc2 departmental server for a Sparc 20. 8=( This department has no money while others use UltraSparc30's as desktops. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From ndiablo at diablonet.net Fri Dec 3 09:22:46 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: TK50 orientation? Message-ID: <19991203152246.2955.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> I've currently got a uVAX II with a TK50 mounted sideways in the bay under the power switch in a BA123; dont think it creates any problems... :) -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Dec 3 08:43:38 1999 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... In-Reply-To: <19991202110258.A1036@saturn.ee.nd.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991203094338.007b1100@mail.wincom.net> At 11:02 AM 12/2/1999 -0500, you wrote: >Hello - > >I would be very interested in looking at the schematic. > >john > The attached file is from the fifth edition of the NAB Engineering Handbook, 1963. I used the lower part as the basis for my ringer, and doubled up on the 2N256's to get more currant. ( I had to ring big old phones reliably. If it doesn't ring when it is supposed to, the sound man is in trouble!) Later I installed a power transformer and rectifier so it could be run off AC. Also, you might do a search on the net for Don Britton Enterprises, 7906 Santa Monica Blvd. Hollywood CA, who were suppliers of various telephone circuits and stuff about thirty years ago. Regards Charlie Fox -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Ringer1.pdf Type: application/octet-stream Size: 18663 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991203/0dd9c5a8/Ringer1.obj -------------- next part -------------- Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Dec 3 08:50:40 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: Emulation Good Guys / Bad Guys In-Reply-To: <0.b124821d.25788195@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991203085040.0102cdb0@pc> At 09:14 PM 12/2/99 EST, Glenatacme@aol.com wrote: > >For a look at the IDSA -- who oppose emulation -- check out: > >http://www.idsa.com/piracy.html Read this page more closely. This group opposes emulators on the basis of the rights of the creators of a game, and the right of that author to restrict how the software is used. Read the FAQ on the page there, and it says: > Aren't emulators programs that somebody has > created and decided to distribute freely? What's > wrong with that? > > While some emulators are made by hobbyist programmers, that > does not mean that they are legal. If the sole purpose of an > emulator is to allow the playing of a console game on a PC, and > the owner of the copyrights in that console game has not > authorized the copying, performance, display, or derivative work > created when a console game is played on a PC, then the > creation and use of that emulator constitutes an infringement of > the copyrights in the console game. The first time I read this, I thought they were opposed to emulators in general. The second time I read it, I realized they were stressing the rights of the cart and/or game maker. This statement makes perfect sense in light of the console industry's policies and licenses. As someone pointed out on this list a few messages ago, the console makers require special agreements with the game makers. You must abide by their rules if you want to make games for their system; you pay to become a developer, you pay for tools, you must give them a royalty on sales, you may be required to sell your product through their channels and mechanisms and within their rules. This isn't the PC market where you can buy a compiler and make and sell your own game without Michael Dell's or Bill Gates' permission. I see where this is going, though - it's similar to a shrink-wrap license. When I buy a Nintendo cart, am I in effect signing a contract that says I won't run it on an emulator? Does IDSA oppose a popular generic emulator such as MAME per se? Probably not. The above argument doesn't necessarily hold. The maker of "Battlezone" never sold those upright video game ROMs outside of their structure for arcade systems. They licensed the concept to PC makers, but that's different. Ripping off a Battlezone ROM for MAME still violates someone's copyright. It has nothing to do with the emulator. To bring this slightly on-topic, many classic computers have weird restrictions in their operating system software licenses, too. I'm sure there's someone out there with deep knowledge of the DEC emulators, for example, to describe how that license works. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Dec 3 09:11:49 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? In-Reply-To: <8025683C.003EA712.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991203091149.01ddd520@pc> At 11:18 AM 12/3/99 +0000, Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: >Hey, I'd not spotted that. Yes, gamelan music is very binary: although the very >slowest pulse (marked by the gong ageng) may not be a binary multiple of the >next one up (gong suwukan, which is what I think I have), all the others are >indeed binary subdivisions. One characteristic of gamelan music is that it There's also some sentiment opposed to the separation of the gong from the rest of the set; it's regarded as a central part of the spirit of the collection of instruments. It's akin to putting a core memory on the wall, I think. :-) >I don't know any Japanese so I can't comment. But German has a tendency to a >verb on the stack, rather than say it, and leave it there until you've what the >sentence is about forgotten, put :-) Mark Twain pointed out that sometimes German sentences were so long that verbs were carried over into the next edition of the publication. - John From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Dec 3 09:11:37 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. In-Reply-To: <001701bf3d5a$9e3cd100$d22ba497@compaq> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991203091137.01ddc600@pc> Flay somebody? We all knew these gold processing plants existed, right? I'd never heard a tale of the scope, though. Even still, it's clear this factory has volume. There's not enough classic computer collectors in the world to rescue all those machines. We can wish there was a better mechanism for us to be able to cherry-pick the make and model we dream of, but the fact is, John B. just took a tour of a very large, very efficient, and apparently profitable Dumpster. - John From dylanb at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 3 08:29:09 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. Message-ID: <004001bf3d9a$c33128e0$4777e2d1@default> -----Original Message----- From: John Foust To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 03, 1999 10:15 AM Subject: Re: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. > >Flay somebody? We all knew these gold processing plants existed, >right? I'd never heard a tale of the scope, though. Even still, >it's clear this factory has volume. There's not enough classic >computer collectors in the world to rescue all those machines. > >We can wish there was a better mechanism for us to be able to >cherry-pick the make and model we dream of, but the fact is, >John B. just took a tour of a very large, very efficient, >and apparently profitable Dumpster. I just hope I can pull aside as many good minis from the '60s as I can. This company does not stop cutting for anything. I had no idea so many IBM 30 series? systems get chopped up every week. The 1130 and the 8 bit front panel computer did break my heart but it's just gold to them. Hopefully this exercise wil yield some good parts and systems needed. He does get in quite a bit of documentation with the systems and I will be taking as much of that as I can. He has a *huge* DEC load coming in next Wednesday so I will be there on Thursday. I have scrapped quite a few systems my self (and thought that was bad) but seeing what his site does in one day made me sick. Will keep everyone updated. john > >- John > > From dwollmann at puttybox.com Fri Dec 3 10:04:37 1999 From: dwollmann at puttybox.com (David Wollmann) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: Stupid IBM DASD Tricks (ESDI) Message-ID: <19991203100437.G23895@puttybox.com> I need a DASD for IBM 5363, which uses the IBM 0669 ESDI disk. This is the same type no. as the 115MB used in the IBM 8580 PS/2, but with a different feature code, and the block size switch set to 512 bytes, instead of 256 bytes. I've installed the 8580 variant in the 5363, with switches on the disk set per the IBM 5363 MIM specs, but the init routine pops an SRC indicating that the defect map is missing or damaged and refuses to LLF the disk. I suspect this is due to the fact that the factory defect map was written with 256 char. blocks instead of 512 char. blocks, but I'm not sure--and I don't trust the IBM error codes since they aren't exclusive. The only variable I haven't eliminated is the drive electronics. Before I spend time swapping drive boards, I wanted to consult with other folks who are prone to commit such foolishness and see if anyone had any wisdom to share. If the drive boards don't make any difference, my next project is an attempt to hack the ROM on the 8580's ESDI controller to see if I can make it work with 512 char. blocks, then try to re-write the defect map. -- David Wollmann ICQ: 10742063 From rhudson at ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 3 10:09:26 1999 From: rhudson at ix.netcom.com (rhudson@ix.netcom.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: VAX Emulator?? and VMS 3? Message-ID: <19991238148641@ix.netcom.com> When I was just starting out, I was an operator of about 4 vaxen with VMS 3.somthing (I even wrote my own command history facility in DCL!) Would be nice to be able to play with that stuff again.. Anybody know of a VAX emulator for IBM machines? Is there a legal way to get VMS for running on the emulator? From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Dec 3 10:14:00 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: TK50 orientation? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991202220128.0225ee30@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: The tk50 is nominally fond in the top horizontal slot in the ba123 (there are 4 of those) and the vertical slot is the RX50. That would be the factory config as well. Also take care mounting it to the sleds used for those slots, the metal can short the TK50. Also I have never seen TK50s run horizontally nor do I think it's acceptable. Allison On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > Does anyone know what the "official" word is on TK50 orientation? By > orientation I mean can I put a TK50 drive in a BA123 in the "sideways" > slot? (Tape slot's long direction is vertical) I notice that they would > have to be that way in a BA23 in a floor stand. > > And speaking of BA23's, does anyone have a spare floor stand? I've got a > VAXStation 3200 that I'd like to put in a floor unit (I've currently got it > in a rack shelf.) > > --Chuck > > From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Dec 3 10:16:57 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: VAXstation vs MicroVAX (was Re: dammit...) In-Reply-To: <19991203055732.14161.qmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Isn't it 4Mb, 6Mb, 12Mb and 14Mb? I have a 4Mb add-in card and one that is > half-full, but no 12Mb add-in cards. :-( Those I have report those amounts of ram. The 8meg is a 6meg card with the base ram. I was lucky to find them as VS2000 with lots of ram is noticeably faster. > Indeed. I know that when I looked at expanding my MV2000s, buying a ram card > from a reseller was always more expensive than the CPU itself. Scrounge. One of mine came as a dead box, good ram. Allison From Philip.Belben at pgen.com Fri Dec 3 10:17:44 1999 From: Philip.Belben at pgen.com (Philip.Belben@pgen.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? Message-ID: <8025683C.0059EB16.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> > There's also some sentiment opposed to the separation of the gong > from the rest of the set; it's regarded as a central part of the > spirit of the collection of instruments. It's akin to putting a > core memory on the wall, I think. :-) Not that bad, surely. It's not as if I don't use it! Anyway, no need to worry. This gong was never in a gamelan, AFAICT. And I have a saron or two to keep it company (although it turns out the saron is tuned in slendro, and the gong in pelog. Oh well. I searched for ages to try and find a melodic instrument tuned in pelog, and failed - and never even checked the gong) For anyone who goes to Jakarta: the antique market in the Jalan Surabaya is unmissable as a place to visit, but most of the stuff on sale is far from genuine. The gong is detectably a fake [*] when you look at it, but I chose it on listening, not looking. The stand is a blatant fake - a combination of two incompatible ethnic styles - and judging by the newspaper used in construction, dates from around January 1997 (I bought the gong in July or August that year) Philip. [*] made in several pieces with welded seams that are just visible. Real gongs are beaten from a single sheet of bronze. For that matter, the notes on the saron are pieces of bronze plate, bent into shape, when they should be individually cast... This E-mail message is private and confidential and should only be read by those to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, reproduction, modification or publication of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please delete the message from your computer and destroy any copies. This message is not intended to be relied upon by any person without subsequent written confirmation of its contents. This company therefore disclaims all responsibility and accepts no liability of any kind which may arise from any person acting, or refraining from acting, upon the contents of the message without having had subsequent written confirmation. If you have received this communication in error, or if any problems occur in transmission please notify us immediately by telephone on +44 (0)2476 425474 From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Fri Dec 3 09:29:36 1999 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: VAXstation vs MicroVAX (was Re: dammit...) Message-ID: <01JJ265TQ4R6935YMZ@cc.usu.edu> >Thanks. We got it c. 1989 for VAXBI development. I got to write the firmware >and device driver for our intellegent serial card. I currently have a box in >the basement with 80% of the world's production of it - 8 cards out of 10. >After all the development, it was never a big seller due to the fact that the >world had moved on. Aha! Another VAXBI survivor! The company I used to work for did a quad IEEE-488 interface and a MIL-STD-1553 interface. I did the firmware for the IEEE-488 interface (imaging a Z80 looking up user-space addresses in the page table. Fun!) and the device drivers for both interfaces. We did hardware debug by running CP/M on one of the IEEE-488 cards; that's right, I have a VAXBI machine that runs CP/M. >At least we priced the card high enough to break even >on the production costs and the cost on the 8300, barely. If you've ever >wondered why VAXBI SCSI cards cost so much, it's because a) they can and b) >nobody ever sold more than a handful of anything for the VAXBI except DEC. We sold about a hundred or so IEEE-488 interfaces. It took many years, but it did manage to climb out of the red ink. The problem is that the bloody thing simply will not die; I've been averaging about one inquiry a quarter on it. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From stan at netcom.com Fri Dec 3 10:49:21 1999 From: stan at netcom.com (Stan Perkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:03 2005 Subject: HP87XM References: <3.0.1.16.19991203090151.09bf794e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3847F491.564094C3@netcom.com> Series 80 BASIC == "Technical BASIC" Series 9000 BASIC == "Workstation BASIC" or "Rocky Mountain BASIC" Ability to transport a program across platforms depends to a great extent on the nature of the program. Relatively simple programs could probably be run directly, but any program that invokes subroutines, subprograms, graphics, matrix math, or file manipulation, for example, will have to be rewritten. Not impossible, but *very* tedious. IIRC, files in ASCII format *can* be exchanged on diskette, but program, binary, and data files are totally incompatible. As it turns out, BASIC on the HP 9000/207 (a.k.a. the Integral) is essentially identical to HP 80 series BASIC, and there *is* a program for this machine to read and convert HP 80 series programs. Joe wrote: > > Alex, > > Not without being re-written. There was supposed to be a translator > program for it but I've never found it and I've heard that it didn't work > very well. > > I don't think the disks formats were even compatible. > > Joe > > At 07:29 AM 12/3/99 +0100, you wrote: > >Can anybody tell me if a basic application running on an HP87XM will > >also run on an HP200/300 series > > > >Cheers > > > >Alec > > > > From Mike-Noel at GCI.net Fri Dec 3 11:12:07 1999 From: Mike-Noel at GCI.net (Mike Noel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Processor Technology S100 memory boards Message-ID: <3847F9E7.6AB4EA3@GCI.net> I'm looking for manuals for Processor Technology 16KRA and 32KRA S100 memory boards. I've a SOL-20 with 1 of each, and the 16KRA has a bad 4k block so I'm trying to (1) figure out how to reconfig the cards so the bad memory is at the end instead of the middle, and/or (2) figure out how to fix the bad card. Anyone able to xerox their manual(s) for me? Thanks From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Dec 3 11:55:51 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.32.19991202165836.00691054@costanzo.net> Message-ID: <4.1.19991203124544.00aa61d0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 10:34 PM 12/2/99 -0800, Mike Ford said something like: >Maybe its just my personal sensitive spot, but cutting up a IBM 1130 for >gold makes me what to flay somebody. HOLD it fella! Yer inline *behind* me! :-) :-) Regards, Chris (who should have been restrained when he read that report from John :-( I felt same as he did. Oh well, we can't save quite everything.) -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Dec 3 12:26:27 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. In-Reply-To: <004001bf3d9a$c33128e0$4777e2d1@default> Message-ID: <4.1.19991203102139.03d265c0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> As with anything, the higher your are the more you see. To someone who just sits down in my office and sees the PDP-8/E sitting on my shelf (sometimes running, sometimes not :-) it seems *impossible* to find a PDP-8. Then when you start looking you find the fringes of the "surplus" marketplace where things appear from time to time. Then you find the liquidators, then you find the scrappers. And then, in John's case, you find one *huge* scrapper. The key is that now we know about them we may be able to save some stuff. --Chuck From jott at saturn.ee.nd.edu Fri Dec 3 12:36:08 1999 From: jott at saturn.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek In-Reply-To: <0.5a070070.2577e17d@aol.com>; from KFergason@aol.com on Thu, Dec 02, 1999 at 09:51:41AM -0500 References: <0.5a070070.2577e17d@aol.com> Message-ID: <19991203133608.B894@saturn.ee.nd.edu> Hello - If you sent me a paper copy, I would be willing to scan it and run through my OCR software. john On Thu, Dec 02, 1999 at 09:51:41AM -0500, KFergason@aol.com wrote: > > I have a copy, on paper, of the HP2000F version. > > sttr1.bas > > Kelly > > > In a message dated Wed, 1 Dec 1999 9:56:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Al Kossow writes: > > > "I do have the > > original SPACWR.BAS (Mike Mayfield, converted by David Ahl, I think) if you > > want that..." > > > > it would be nice to find the original HP2000 version somewhere. The copy > > that Jeff Moffatt has on the HP2100 page looks like a bad read. > > -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: jott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * *********************************************************************** From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 3 12:53:14 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek In-Reply-To: <19991203133608.B894@saturn.ee.nd.edu> References: <0.5a070070.2577e17d@aol.com>; from KFergason@aol.com on Thu, Dec 02, 1999 at 09:51:41AM -0500 <0.5a070070.2577e17d@aol.com> Message-ID: You have OCR software for paper tape? Zane >If you sent me a paper copy, I would be willing to scan it and run through my >OCR software. > >john > >On Thu, Dec 02, 1999 at 09:51:41AM -0500, KFergason@aol.com wrote: >> >> I have a copy, on paper, of the HP2000F version. >> >> sttr1.bas >> >> Kelly >> >> >> In a message dated Wed, 1 Dec 1999 9:56:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Al >>Kossow writes: >> >> > "I do have the >> > original SPACWR.BAS (Mike Mayfield, converted by David Ahl, I think) >>if you >> > want that..." >> > >> > it would be nice to find the original HP2000 version somewhere. The copy >> > that Jeff Moffatt has on the HP2100 page looks like a bad read. | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 3 12:31:17 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Emulation Good Guys / Bad Guys In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991203085040.0102cdb0@pc> (message from John Foust on Fri, 03 Dec 1999 08:50:40 -0600) References: <3.0.5.32.19991203085040.0102cdb0@pc> Message-ID: <19991203183117.7266.qmail@brouhaha.com> John wrote: > The first time I read this, I thought they were opposed to > emulators in general. The second time I read it, I realized they > were stressing the rights of the cart and/or game maker. This > statement makes perfect sense in light of the console industry's > policies and licenses. Yes, but as an end user I am not subject to their policies. A similar situation exists with products I buy here in the US that are marked "Only for sale in the USA and Canada". Unless there are export laws or regulations that prohibit it (which there usually aren't), there's no reason I can't take the item to another country and sell it. Similary, I buy DVDs manufactured for sale in Japan. They are NTSC but encoded for region 2 play only. I've had to modify my DVD player to allow play of non-region-1 discs. I'm sure the recording industry hates it when people do this, but there isn't actually anything they can do. (Even under the new Digital Millenium Copyright Act, which bans defeating copy protection systems.) > I see where this is going, though - it's similar to a shrink-wrap > license. When I buy a Nintendo cart, am I in effect signing a > contract that says I won't run it on an emulator? No. Of course, IANAL so YMMV. Eric From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Dec 3 13:31:41 1999 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: VAX Emulator?? and VMS 3? In-Reply-To: <19991238148641@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 1999 rhudson@ix.netcom.com wrote: > When I was just starting out, I was an operator of about 4 vaxen with VMS > 3.somthing (I even wrote my own command history facility in DCL!) Would be > nice to be able to play with that stuff again.. Anybody know of a VAX > emulator for IBM machines? Is there a legal way to get VMS for running on the > emulator? There are two "academic" VAX emulators around, but neither of them emulates a full VAX environment. As far as I know, neither is yet capable of booting VMS. The one that's available for Windows is called "eVax", and can be found here: http://www.forest-edge.net/evax.html There's also a Macintosh VAX simulator called (appropriately) MacVAX: ftp://ftp.cs.auckland.ac.nz/pub/mac/MacVAX.sea.hqx But this one seems to be even less useful. My advice would be to look for a MicroVAX or VAXstation 3100. They can often be had for very little money, if not free, and provide more than enough horsepower for VAX and VMS tinkering. The 3100 came in various flavors (the most redily available seems to be the 3100 model 30), and all of them can use SCSI disks and CD-ROMs. You can use a standard SCSI CD-ROM (most of them) to install VMS, and they'll run everything from VMS 5.5 through VMS 7.2. You can obtain a legal license for VMS and all sorts of layered products by joining DECUS (for free) and going to http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ and filling out a license request form. They also sell OpenVMS hobbyist CD-ROMs containing OpenVMS 7.2. If you'd like an older copy of VMS, I can make a CD-ROM for you (I have both the older, no-longer-produced hobbyist CD-ROM and the new one. The old CD-ROM had VMS 5.5 through VMS 6.0). Yes, I'm a VAX bigot :) -Seth -- "This is not something made up... this is taken from | sethm@loomcom.com a secret 12th century alchemy manuscript. this is | the real thing!!!" -- An online auction (really!) | Perth ==> * From edick at idcomm.com Fri Dec 3 13:30:38 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Processor Technology S100 memory boards Message-ID: <001d01bf3dc5$bd077f20$0400c0a8@winbook> SRAM boards (that is what these are, isn't it?) are usually simple enough to troubleshoot that you can get by with just a 'scope and an hour or so of time, depending on how inclined you are to work on the hardware. Each RAM device will have a write strobe, a select strobe, (maybe a separate enable as well) and some data inputs and outputs. Because it's a 16K board, I assume you have 4kx1 or 1kx4 SRAMs. (similar to 2147 or 2148 types, respectively) The 1Kx4 parts have common I/O, and both types are 18-pin DIPs. These 16K boards use 2147's don't they? Does your diagnostic (whatever it is) tell you which bit is failing? If it can't read the bits, perhaps it's a (1) a failed decoder or (2) it's a failed data bus buffer, or (3) it's a roached address buffer. The only apparent alternative would be a failed RAM. It does smack of a failed on-board decoder, however, since only the one 4K block is failing. If you can't read/write even a single bit in that 4K block of RAM, it's undoubedly a buffer or a decoder. If only one bit fails, it's probably not a decoder, but then the RAM itself is suspect. Since the failure is in the "middle" of your board, it's probably not difficult to compose a loop which cycles through the ram board in 1K blocks, doing a write to one location in each 1K block, first the lsb, then left-shift and do it again, etc. This enables you to trace the device select, and write strobes through the circuit. A 16K board in a 64K memory map ought to be pretty simple to decode. There should be jumpers/switches to select which 16K block in the memory map the board occupies, and there should be a 2-line to 4-line decoder to select the individual bytes of memory. If the organization is as 16 pairs of the 2148-types, then there's probably either a 4 line-16 line decoder (e.g. 74154) or a pair of 2-to-8 types (e.g. 74138) to select a byte of RAM for each memory cycle. Assuming you have the equipment at your disposal, you can determine whether each RAM device is receiving the write and select strobes at the correct times, and likewise, whether they get their enable and select when being read. IF those are both correct, you then write a loop which writes all zeroes to the rams and then having finished writing the zeroes, cycles infinitely on reading them back. You then look to see where the zeroes no longera appear as zeroes, bit by bit, until you have it narrowed down to one data bit and replace the device which isn't transmitting the zero. If they all transmit zeroes OK, then you write all ones out to the ram board and then look for where the zeroes coming from the ram are no longer zeroes. It's not a bad idea to monitor the write operation as well to see that the data makes it TO the RAM in the correct sense, inasmuch as the S-100 has separate in and out busses. This whole process, aside from the associated repair shouldn't take too long and will fix the problem once you isolate and replace the failing component. If, however, you're determined simply to move the failing block of memory to the top where it's easy to ingore, you can switch decoder outputs by tracing back from the failing block of RAM to the decoder and then cutting the traces and soldering on the jumpers which will accomplish what you want. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Mike Noel To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 03, 1999 10:21 AM Subject: Processor Technology S100 memory boards >I'm looking for manuals for Processor Technology 16KRA and 32KRA >S100 memory boards. > >I've a SOL-20 with 1 of each, and the 16KRA has a bad 4k block so I'm >trying to (1) figure out how to reconfig the cards so the bad memory is >at the end instead of the middle, and/or (2) figure out how to fix the >bad card. > >Anyone able to xerox their manual(s) for me? > >Thanks From bobstek at ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 3 14:04:53 1999 From: bobstek at ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Processor Technology S100 memory boards In-Reply-To: <3847F9E7.6AB4EA3@GCI.net> Message-ID: I have the 16KRA manual handy, but it is about 90 pages long. It has schematics, theory of operation, diagnostic test, etc. If you want a copy for about $10 let me know. Meanwhile, perhaps this will help: a15 a14 a13 a12 a15 a14 a13 a12 sw1-8 o o o o o o o o sw1-1 page 1 page 2 sw2-8 o o o o o o o o sw2-1 page 3 page 4 starting address a15 a14 a13 a12 x=open, off, down c=closed, on, up 0000 x x x x 1000 x x x c 2000 x x c x 3000 x x c c 4000 x c x x 5000 x c x c 6000 x c c x 7000 x c c c 8000 c x x x 9000 c x x c A000 c x c x B000 c x c c C000 c c x x D000 c c x c E000 c c c x F000 c c c c I have a 32KRA manual around here too. Just can't find it right now. And, BTW, "Processor Technology also provides factory repair service on out of warranty products....charges will not exceed $20 without prior notification and your approval." Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Mike Noel Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 12:12 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Processor Technology S100 memory boards I'm looking for manuals for Processor Technology 16KRA and 32KRA S100 memory boards. I've a SOL-20 with 1 of each, and the 16KRA has a bad 4k block so I'm trying to (1) figure out how to reconfig the cards so the bad memory is at the end instead of the middle, and/or (2) figure out how to fix the bad card. Anyone able to xerox their manual(s) for me? Thanks From peter at joules0.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 3 14:09:23 1999 From: peter at joules0.demon.co.uk (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: RZ56 Help needed Message-ID: I hope this is on topic, it can't be far off ;=) I am trying to install NetBSD on my MicroVAX 3100. I would like to install it on the RZ56 which is in its own expansion box. The problem, or so I am told, is that the drive as it is needs to be told to spin up and NetBSD doesn't do that. It has been suggested that there might be a jumper to tell it to spin up automatically. Does anyone here know if that is the case, and if so, where it is? -- Regards Pete From yen111opp at hotmail.com Fri Dec 3 15:21:17 1999 From: yen111opp at hotmail.com (yen111opp@hotmail.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Do You Have a Yen to be a Millionaire! Message-ID: <117.413914.240208@unknown> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991203/3b9c79ab/attachment.html From marvin at rain.org Fri Dec 3 14:17:52 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Solder Melting Point References: <8025683C.00416215.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <38482570.3593FD34@rain.org> Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > > Eh? Silver solder is certainly very nice, flows well, bonds to a lot of metals, > etc., but isn't it usually _higher_ melting point? Conventional solder melts at > around 450 F, I think. (Anyone have the exact figure?), silver solder typically > at 600. The melting point of solder varies depending on its composition. Eutectic solder (63/37) melts at about 361 degrees F and the melting point raises as the percentage of either the lead or tin content raises. From dburrows at netpath.net Fri Dec 3 14:11:47 1999 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: TK50 orientation? Message-ID: <009a01bf3dcc$60bb3ed0$a652e780@L166> If they are only supposed to be horizintal then you can't put them in a BA23 in a pedistial configuration. Dan >The tk50 is nominally fond in the top horizontal slot in the ba123 (there >are 4 of those) and the vertical slot is the RX50. That would be the >factory config as well. Also take care mounting it to the sleds used for >those slots, the metal can short the TK50. Also I have never seen TK50s >run horizontally nor do I think it's acceptable. > >Allison > >On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > >> Does anyone know what the "official" word is on TK50 orientation? By >> orientation I mean can I put a TK50 drive in a BA123 in the "sideways" >> slot? (Tape slot's long direction is vertical) I notice that they would >> have to be that way in a BA23 in a floor stand. >> >> And speaking of BA23's, does anyone have a spare floor stand? I've got a >> VAXStation 3200 that I'd like to put in a floor unit (I've currently got it >> in a rack shelf.) >> >> --Chuck >> >> From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Fri Dec 3 14:31:56 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: RZ56 Help needed Message-ID: <991203153156.21e001bb@trailing-edge.com> >I hope this is on topic, it can't be far off ;=) > >I am trying to install NetBSD on my MicroVAX 3100. I would like to >install it on the RZ56 which is in its own expansion box. The problem, >or so I am told, is that the drive as it is needs to be told to spin up >and NetBSD doesn't do that. > >It has been suggested that there might be a jumper to tell it to spin up >automatically. Does anyone here know if that is the case, and if so, >where it is? I don't know about jumpers, but if you do a SHOW DEV from the console ">>>" prompt does this spin the drive up for you? Is this good enough? If not, I suppose you'll have to chalk this up as yet another "supported by NetBSD but doesn't work" bug... Tim. From DerrickW at ForestInvestment.COM Fri Dec 3 14:35:11 1999 From: DerrickW at ForestInvestment.COM (Derrick Wenger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <71547906CDACD211BE300008C733838D244CD7@exchange_forest.forumcap.com> I have a 1986 IBM laptop computer that I am interested in selling. Purchased by requirement from Harvard Business School. Please contact me with your offers. From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Dec 3 14:45:10 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Processor Technology S100 memory boards In-Reply-To: <001d01bf3dc5$bd077f20$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: > These 16K boards use 2147's don't they? Does your diagnostic (whatever it Likely it uses 2114s (1kx4). > is) tell you which bit is failing? If it can't read the bits, perhaps it's > a (1) a failed decoder or (2) it's a failed data bus buffer, or (3) it's a > roached address buffer. The only apparent alternative would be a failed > RAM. It does smack of a failed on-board decoder, however, since only the > one 4K block is failing. If you can't read/write even a single bit in that > 4K block of RAM, it's undoubedly a buffer or a decoder. If only one bit > fails, it's probably not a decoder, but then the RAM itself is suspect. I don't ahve prints for those but memory says it's one of those that allows block DESELECTs via switches or jumpers. That means the ram could be good just not enabled. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Dec 3 14:47:48 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: RZ56 Help needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I am trying to install NetBSD on my MicroVAX 3100. I would like to > install it on the RZ56 which is in its own expansion box. The problem, > or so I am told, is that the drive as it is needs to be told to spin up > and NetBSD doesn't do that. Do a >>>show dev as that has to spin it up to talk to it. > It has been suggested that there might be a jumper to tell it to spin up > automatically. Does anyone here know if that is the case, and if so, > where it is? No there isn't that I can remember. Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 3 16:34:35 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: HP87XM In-Reply-To: <3847F491.564094C3@netcom.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19991203090151.09bf794e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991203163435.39dfe4f4@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 08:49 AM 12/3/99 -0800, Stan wrote: >Series 80 BASIC == "Technical BASIC" >Series 9000 BASIC == "Workstation BASIC" or "Rocky Mountain BASIC" > >Ability to transport a program across platforms depends to a great >extent on the nature of the program. Relatively simple programs could >probably be run directly, but any program that invokes subroutines, >subprograms, graphics, matrix math, or file manipulation, for example, >will have to be rewritten. It's a problem moving programs between any of the machines. Even ones as similar as the 9826 and 9836. They ALL have different graphics and alpha screen resolutions and when you go from one machine familty to another then most of them also have incompatible disk formats. Not impossible, but *very* tedious. IIRC, >files in ASCII format *can* be exchanged on diskette, but program, >binary, and data files are totally incompatible. > >As it turns out, BASIC on the HP 9000/207 (a.k.a. the Integral) is >essentially identical to HP 80 series BASIC, and there *is* a program >for this machine to read and convert HP 80 series programs. There's also a program to convert HP-85 BASIC programs to run on a 9845. Not that that's any help! Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 3 12:45:47 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991203001038.0a1f88a0@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 3, 99 00:10:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 957 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991203/1f8dfb61/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 3 12:51:04 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: from "Clint Wolff" at Dec 2, 99 06:12:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1236 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991203/92816415/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 3 13:05:16 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? In-Reply-To: <19991203012738.74243.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Will Jennings" at Dec 2, 99 06:27:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2386 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991203/9a7c92e2/attachment.ksh From peter at joules0.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 3 14:41:24 1999 From: peter at joules0.demon.co.uk (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: RZ56 Help needed In-Reply-To: <991203153156.21e001bb@trailing-edge.com> References: <991203153156.21e001bb@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: In article <991203153156.21e001bb@trailing-edge.com>, CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com writes >I don't know about jumpers, but if you do a SHOW DEV from the console >">>>" prompt does this spin the drive up for you? Is this good enough? > I have tried that, but when I then try to netboot NetBSD it still doesn't see the drive. >If not, I suppose you'll have to chalk this up as yet another "supported >by NetBSD but doesn't work" bug... > :( -- Regards Pete From truthanl at oclc.org Fri Dec 3 15:02:28 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: RZ56 Help needed Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE27@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> I know nothing of the RZ56, BUT several seagate drives had jumpers for Motor Start and Delay Motor Start. In Seagate terminology if the Motor Start jumper was connected then the Drive Waited for the SCSI "Start Unit" command to start the drive. IF the Motor Start Jumper was NOT CONNECTED the drive fell through to a delay motor start scheme. If the Delay Motor Start jumper was MISSING,-the delay was disabled. If the Delay Motor start jumper was installed the drive multiplyed the SCSI ID by 10 seconds and spun up the spindle. So ID 2 would spin up in 20 sec. ID 3 would Spin up in 30 sec. etc. I assume ID 0 would start immediately on power up. I had also seen some IBM SCSI drives that had a motor start jumper termed "start on command", otherwise they powered up immediately. But then again those were Seagate and IBM schemes, I can't speak to DEC RZ56.. Sincerely Larry Truthan -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com [mailto:CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com] Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 3:32 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: RZ56 Help needed >I hope this is on topic, it can't be far off ;=) > >I am trying to install NetBSD on my MicroVAX 3100. I would like to >install it on the RZ56 which is in its own expansion box. The problem, >or so I am told, is that the drive as it is needs to be told to spin up >and NetBSD doesn't do that. > >It has been suggested that there might be a jumper to tell it to spin up >automatically. Does anyone here know if that is the case, and if so, >where it is? I don't know about jumpers, but if you do a SHOW DEV from the console ">>>" prompt does this spin the drive up for you? Is this good enough? If not, I suppose you'll have to chalk this up as yet another "supported by NetBSD but doesn't work" bug... Tim. From bobstek at ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 3 15:03:02 1999 From: bobstek at ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Processor Technology S100 memory boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > These 16K boards use 2147's don't they? Does your diagnostic (whatever it Likely it uses 2114s (1kx4). Actually it uses 2104's Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs From mrbill at mrbill.net Fri Dec 3 15:06:34 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: your mail In-Reply-To: <71547906CDACD211BE300008C733838D244CD7@exchange_forest.forumcap.com> References: <71547906CDACD211BE300008C733838D244CD7@exchange_forest.forumcap.com> Message-ID: <19991203150634.D3929@mrbill.net> On Fri, Dec 03, 1999 at 03:35:11PM -0500, Derrick Wenger wrote: > I have a 1986 IBM laptop computer that I am interested in selling. > Purchased by requirement from Harvard Business School. Please contact me > with your offers. If its an IBM PC COnvertible, I've "already got one you see, its-a very niazz.". I'll offer $50 for yours if its complete. bill -- Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using Windows NT for mission-critical applications." -- What Yoda *meant* to say From cem14 at cornell.edu Fri Dec 3 15:08:15 1999 From: cem14 at cornell.edu (Carlos Murillo-Sanchez) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) References: Message-ID: <3848313F.3395B050@cornell.edu> Tony Duell wrote: > Another warning. There's a stuff called 'silver solder' used by > engineers. This is _NOT_ the same stuff at all -- it's high melting point > (you can use it on small steam engine boilers, etc). I'm not sure it even > contains silver. I believe it does contain silver indeed. It is _very_ expensive. And you need acethylene+O2 in order to use it. -- Carlos Murillo-Sanchez email: cem14@cornell.edu 428 Phillips Hall, Electrical Engineering Department Cornell University, Ithaca, NY 14853 From truthanl at oclc.org Fri Dec 3 15:11:37 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: RZ56 Help needed Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE28@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> My Point would be that the ABSENCE of option jumpers on pin headers usually defaulted to immediate start. If you see an option jumper on the RZ56 other than SCSI ID. Would it hurt to pull it? Others? I Know... Bad form to reply on my own message... Sorry To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: RE: RZ56 Help needed Importance: High I know nothing of the RZ56, BUT Sincerely Larry Truthan From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 3 15:16:53 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: RZ56 Help needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I hope this is on topic, it can't be far off ;=) > >I am trying to install NetBSD on my MicroVAX 3100. I would like to >install it on the RZ56 which is in its own expansion box. The problem, >or so I am told, is that the drive as it is needs to be told to spin up >and NetBSD doesn't do that. > >It has been suggested that there might be a jumper to tell it to spin up >automatically. Does anyone here know if that is the case, and if so, >where it is? Just tell the machine to boot off the RZ56, it should spin it up, and then fail to boot. I use this method with a 3rd party drive on a AlphaStation 200. Where I've got real problems is with my PDP-11/73 and /44 if I've got DEC two RZ56's hooked up. They'll spin up the first drive, but not the second. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 3 15:17:44 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: References: from "Clint Wolff" at Dec 2, 99 06:12:35 pm Message-ID: >> > On a philosophical side, what do you guys do, preserve both hardware >> > and original software or upgrade the software? On my 3100/M38 I took >> > out the original RZ24 with 5.?, put an old IBM disk and installed 7.2. > >My view is that I'd never overwrite an original distribution kit -- I'd >preserve it and probably back it up. But I may well install a newer >version of the OS (given suitable licenses) on the machine. I'd attempt >to back up what was already there first, though. That's because I _use_ >these old machines. For a museum exhibit, as you said, you want to have >contemporary software. I've been known to pull the hard drive that came with the machine, and use a different harddrive. Did this with the VAXstation 3100/30 I've got. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 3 17:23:11 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: <8025683C.00416215.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991203172311.48477c26@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:47 AM 12/3/99 +0000, Philip wrote: > > >> You're right. I meant to add that the solder that I'm using is a very >> low temperature solder with silver in it. 500 or 600 degrees would be too >> cold for standard solder. I love this silver stuff, it expensive but it >> flows beautifully. Most of the stuff that I work on is tiny so a one ounce >> roll will last for a couple of years. > >Eh? Silver solder is certainly very nice, flows well, bonds to a lot of metals, >etc., but isn't it usually _higher_ melting point? Conventional solder melts at >around 450 F, I think. (Anyone have the exact figure?), silver solder typically >at 600. I don't know what the exact MP of this stuff is but my iron (Weller EC 3000) is set to less than 600d and it melts and flows well at that temperature. I don't know if the temperature control is accurate or not though. This is 2% silver. I know that the MP goes up with the higher silver content. You have to use a blow torch on the silver solder that they use for air conditioning work. I'll check and see if Kester has a website and lists the specs for this stuff. Joe From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Fri Dec 3 15:27:42 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: RZ56 Help needed Message-ID: <991203162742.21e001d5@trailing-edge.com> >It has been suggested that there might be a jumper to tell it to spin up >automatically. Does anyone here know if that is the case, and if so, >where it is? As an alternative to my previous suggestion, I've seen frequent mention over the past decade or so in the DEC-related newsgroups to a program called "RZSPINUP". Whether this can be pressed into service under NetBSD, I don't know. (I was under the impression that RZSPINUP ran on a DOS-based PC-clone.) See, for example, http://www.deja.com/[ST_rn=ps]/qs.xp?ST=PS&svcclass=dnyr&QRY=rzspinup&defaultOp=AND&DBS=1&OP=dnquery.xp&LNG=ALL&subjects=&groups=&authors=&fromdate=&todate=&showsort=score&maxhits=25 -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 3 15:28:01 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > >Be warned that a relatively cold iron can do _more_ thermal damage than a > > >hot one. _All_ irons are hot, and if you use a colder one you keep it on > > >too long to complete the connection and thus overheat the component. > > > > > >I find a #8 good for almost all work. A #7 is useable, but I don't like > > >it. #5 or #6 is too cold... > > > > You're right. I meant to add that the solder that I'm using is a very > > low temperature solder with silver in it. 500 or 600 degrees would be too > > That silver-loaded solder is great stuff. I have a reel that I use for > SMD work and for repairs on Tektronix 500 series (which use silver-plated > ceramic terminal strips). It was expensive, but it lasts a _long_ time. > > Another warning. There's a stuff called 'silver solder' used by > engineers. This is _NOT_ the same stuff at all -- it's high melting point > (you can use it on small steam engine boilers, etc). I'm not sure it even > contains silver. > > -tony Yes, it does, and it is applied with a torch and water soluble flux. - don From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Fri Dec 3 15:35:39 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) Message-ID: <991203163539.21e001d5@trailing-edge.com> >>> You're right. I meant to add that the solder that I'm using is a very >>> low temperature solder with silver in it. 500 or 600 degrees would be too >>> cold for standard solder. I love this silver stuff, it expensive but it >> >>Eh? Silver solder is certainly very nice, flows well, bonds to a lot of >>metals, >>etc., but isn't it usually _higher_ melting point? Conventional solder > I don't know what the exact MP of this stuff is but my iron (Weller EC >3000) is set to less than 600d and it melts and flows well at that >temperature. I don't know if the temperature control is accurate or not >though. This is 2% silver. What is the rest of the solder? Tin, lead, something else? "Silver solder" is an extremely vague term, covering everything from special low melting point Indium-Silver alloys to 2% Silver/tin/lead solders to brazing, depending on the context it is used in. The indium-rich solders are *really* neat stuff, if you ever get a chance to work with them. Melting temperatures down to near room temperature are available, as well as entire series of solder alloys with graduated melting temperatures for building up intricate assemblies. And many indium solders will even wet and stick to *glass*. Expensive stuff, as well! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From truthanl at oclc.org Fri Dec 3 15:36:21 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE29@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Zane, Do you stay with DEC OEM Model NUMBER on replacement? What utilities exist to help identify drives to a MicroVAX? Can I "dummy" some CYL/SPT/Hd count and hand it to the MicroVax and have the OS Come in later and claim its an RD5? something provided the figures match? Like, Whats the difference between a Quantum Q-540 and a DEC RD52? Since Allison Parent mentioned that the RD52 was a Q-540, I have looked it up in "The Hard Disk Technical Guide" by Micro-House. All the details are there. If I were to Find a Micropolis or CDC drive that fit some larger DEC equivalent on CYL/SPT/Heads MFM ST506 RPM etc what would stop me from generating a workable drive profile? Anyone done this? -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@aracnet.com] Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 4:18 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) >> > On a philosophical side, what do you guys do, preserve both hardware >> > and original software or upgrade the software? On my 3100/M38 I took >> > out the original RZ24 with 5.?, put an old IBM disk and installed 7.2. > >My view is that I'd never overwrite an original distribution kit -- I'd >preserve it and probably back it up. But I may well install a newer >version of the OS (given suitable licenses) on the machine. I'd attempt >to back up what was already there first, though. That's because I _use_ >these old machines. For a museum exhibit, as you said, you want to have >contemporary software. I've been known to pull the hard drive that came with the machine, and use a different harddrive. Did this with the VAXstation 3100/30 I've got. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Fri Dec 3 15:38:28 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) Message-ID: <991203163828.21e001d5@trailing-edge.com> >> Another warning. There's a stuff called 'silver solder' used by >> engineers. This is _NOT_ the same stuff at all -- it's high melting point >> (you can use it on small steam engine boilers, etc). I'm not sure it even >> contains silver. >Yes, it does, and it is applied with a torch and water soluble flux. I'm not sure exactly what Tony is talking about, but it is indeed true that in some contexts (musical instrument repair, in particular) "silver soldering" refers to brazing with a bronze alloy - there's no actual silver involved at all. "Silver soldering" can refer to a half-dozen other processes, as well... (most of them admittedly involving at least some silver!) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 3 17:32:41 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19991203001038.0a1f88a0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991203173241.43df2e34@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 06:45 PM 12/3/99 +0000, Tony wrote: > >Another warning. There's a stuff called 'silver solder' used by >engineers. This is _NOT_ the same stuff at all -- it's high melting point >(you can use it on small steam engine boilers, etc). I'm not sure it even >contains silver. I'm not sure either but they sure charge an arm and a leg for it! They use it here for air conditioning work. It takes a LOT of heat to melt that stuff. Even a propane torch won't work. You have to use Oxy-Actylene or MAPP gas. Joe From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Fri Dec 3 15:46:14 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <991203164614.21e001d5@trailing-edge.com> [Numerous questions on using non-DEC ST506/MFM drives on DEC machines] >If I were to Find a Micropolis or CDC drive that fit some larger DEC >equivalent on CYL/SPT/Heads MFM ST506 RPM etc what would stop me from >generating a workable drive profile? > >Anyone done this? Yeah, sure, folks have been doing this for about a decade and a half. See, in particular, ftp://ftp.spc.edu/third-party-disks.txt At a minimum, before getting any further, you're going to need some way to format arbitrary MFM drives to what the DEC controllers will expect for a low-level format, either a VS2000 with its built-in console formatter, or one of the DEC XXDP formatters (ZRQB for the RQDX2, ZRQC for the RQDX3) and a PDP-11 to run them on. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 3 15:52:07 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:04 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE29@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Truthan,Larry wrote: > Zane, > > Do you stay with DEC OEM Model NUMBER on replacement? > > What utilities exist to help identify drives to a MicroVAX? > > Can I "dummy" some CYL/SPT/Hd count and hand it to the MicroVax and have the > OS Come in later and claim its an RD5? something provided the figures match? > > Like, Whats the difference between a Quantum Q-540 and a DEC RD52? > > Since Allison Parent mentioned that the RD52 was a Q-540, I have looked it > up in "The Hard Disk Technical Guide" by Micro-House. All the details are > there. > > If I were to Find a Micropolis or CDC drive that fit some larger DEC > equivalent on CYL/SPT/Heads MFM ST506 RPM etc what would stop me from > generating a workable drive profile? > > Anyone done this? > I have successfully and without problem formatted both Maxtor XT2190 and Priam 519 drives that had been in DOS service on a MicroVAX 2000 using Test 70. It appears that if the CSH numbers equate to an RDnn number's figures that it is assumed to be one. - don > > -----Original Message----- > From: Zane H. Healy [mailto:healyzh@aracnet.com] > Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 4:18 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) > > > >> > On a philosophical side, what do you guys do, preserve both hardware > >> > and original software or upgrade the software? On my 3100/M38 I took > >> > out the original RZ24 with 5.?, put an old IBM disk and installed 7.2. > > > >My view is that I'd never overwrite an original distribution kit -- I'd > >preserve it and probably back it up. But I may well install a newer > >version of the OS (given suitable licenses) on the machine. I'd attempt > >to back up what was already there first, though. That's because I _use_ > >these old machines. For a museum exhibit, as you said, you want to have > >contemporary software. > > I've been known to pull the hard drive that came with the machine, and use > a different harddrive. Did this with the VAXstation 3100/30 I've got. > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Dec 3 15:57:00 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE29@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Message-ID: > What utilities exist to help identify drives to a MicroVAX? Not at teh console boot level. VMS will idenify them as weill MDM diags. > Like, Whats the difference between a Quantum Q-540 and a DEC RD52? NONE, RD52 is what dec calls a Q-540. > If I were to Find a Micropolis or CDC drive that fit some larger DEC > equivalent on CYL/SPT/Heads MFM ST506 RPM etc what would stop me from > generating a workable drive profile? RD54 is Maxtor2190, look that up. Now, heres the nasty part. Of the RD52/3/4 disks there are Quantum, Micropolus and MAXTOR drives non DEC branded. They are the same. They are also different! The NON-DEC supplied are not formatted to match the RQDX2/3 controllers. So if you find some D540s, you may also have to format them... you likely don't have diags to do that. So even with a pile of them your still not ahead. Solution: prevail on someone that bas a Qbus PDP-11 with diags that can format the drive. Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 3 17:49:45 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? In-Reply-To: References: <19991203012738.74243.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991203174945.4847cb06@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:05 PM 12/3/99 +0000, Tony wrote: >> as well. I also collect classic cars, to which end I have a 1967 Plymouth >> Barracuda and a 1970 Oldsmobile Cutlass S. I also would like to get a couple > >I have to restrict myself to collecting old car workshop manuals... >Easier to store ;-) But not nearly as much fun! '70 Dodge Challanger R/T convertible w/ 440 6 pac, '70 Plymouth Superbird w/ 426 hemi, 1958 Golieth Tiger. (no, NOT Sunbeam.) Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 3 17:57:39 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: <991203163539.21e001d5@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991203175739.097720a6@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:35 PM 12/3/99 -0500, someone asked: >> I don't know what the exact MP of this stuff is but my iron (Weller EC >>3000) is set to less than 600d and it melts and flows well at that >>temperature. I don't know if the temperature control is accurate or not >>though. This is 2% silver. > >What is the rest of the solder? Tin, lead, something else? It says Sn62 so 62% tin. I was told that it's 2% silver. I assume the reaminer is lead. I checked Kester's website and they don't list the stuff. I've send them a message asking for the composition and melting point. > >"Silver solder" is an extremely vague term, covering everything from >special low melting point Indium-Silver alloys to 2% Silver/tin/lead >solders to brazing, depending on the context it is used in. I have some 4% silver stuff too. I think 2% and 4% are what's normally used for electronics work. > >The indium-rich solders are *really* neat stuff, if you ever get a >chance to work with them. Melting temperatures down to near room temperature >are available, as well as entire series of solder alloys with graduated >melting temperatures for building up intricate assemblies. And many indium >solders will even wet and stick to *glass*. I just missed get a 2 pound can of 97% Indium solder paste in a scrap place last week for $2. A friend of mine saw it first and grabbed it. Grrrr. He said the Indium paste was great for working outside. You could twist the wires together, drip them in the Indium paste then heat the joint with a match to solder it. > >Expensive stuff, as well! I'm sure! Joe From KFergason at aol.com Fri Dec 3 15:59:25 1999 From: KFergason at aol.com (KFergason@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek Message-ID: <0.cdf2fca5.2579973d@aol.com> hmm, i didn't mention paper tape. I have printouts of a bunch of programs from the HP2000F system from my high school days. mostly thermal paper stuff. To the few who have requested it, I will dig the stuff out and make it available. somehow. just give me a couple of days to find it. kelly In a message dated Fri, 3 Dec 1999 1:54:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Zane H. Healy" writes: > You have OCR software for paper tape? > > Zane > > >If you sent me a paper copy, I would be willing to scan it and run through my > >OCR software. > > > >john > > > >On Thu, Dec 02, 1999 at 09:51:41AM -0500, KFergason@aol.com wrote: > >> > >> I have a copy, on paper, of the HP2000F version. > >> > >> sttr1.bas > >> > >> Kelly > >> > >> > >> In a message dated Wed, 1 Dec 1999 9:56:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Al > >>Kossow writes: > >> > >> > "I do have the > >> > original SPACWR.BAS (Mike Mayfield, converted by David Ahl, I think) > >>if you > >> > want that..." > >> > > >> > it would be nice to find the original HP2000 version somewhere. The copy > >> > that Jeff Moffatt has on the HP2100 page looks like a bad read. > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 3 16:02:26 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: RZ56 Help needed In-Reply-To: <991203162742.21e001d5@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: >As an alternative to my previous suggestion, I've seen frequent mention >over the past decade or so in the DEC-related newsgroups to a program >called "RZSPINUP". Whether this can be pressed into service under NetBSD, >I don't know. (I was under the impression that RZSPINUP ran on a DOS-based >PC-clone.) I know it's a DOS program. I think it's on the VMS Freeware CD-ROM #4, so a copy should be available at the OpenVMS site. However, I'm not sure if this permanently changes a setting on the drive firmware, or if it has to be run each time the computer comes up. I've actually heard both explanations, but haven't bothered to look into it since I don't have a DOS machine that can run it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 3 14:49:08 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Whats the screwiest thing you collect? In-Reply-To: <8025683C.004061D6.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> Message-ID: >I have some 8-track tapes, but I passed up the only player I ever saw and have >regretted it ever since... (it was at a car boot sale and I had already >bought >as much as I could carry home. I hadn't brought the car) I inherited my packrat gene from my dad, when he died he had over 50 guitars from junk to nice Martins, more than a dozen banjii, clarinets, down to a couple xylophones. Worse he didn't collect musical instruments, what he collected were Turquoise and guns. Last August I sold the house with a big estate sale prior to that, and one of the items I sold to a friend was a 8 track recorder and two spare players. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 3 15:28:24 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Emulation Good Guys / Bad Guys In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991203085040.0102cdb0@pc> References: <0.b124821d.25788195@aol.com> Message-ID: >I see where this is going, though - it's similar to a shrink-wrap >license. When I buy a Nintendo cart, am I in effect signing a >contract that says I won't run it on an emulator? How is this different from buying a CD and making a cassette for your walkman from it? This is familiar ground the courts have ruled in favor of the consumers on. The wet dream of software companies is "pay per use", ie you actually don't get ANYTHING tangible for your money just permission for a specific use. Linux looks better and better every day. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 3 15:33:23 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991203091137.01ddc600@pc> References: <001701bf3d5a$9e3cd100$d22ba497@compaq> Message-ID: >Flay somebody? We all knew these gold processing plants existed, >right? I'd never heard a tale of the scope, though. Even still, >it's clear this factory has volume. There's not enough classic >computer collectors in the world to rescue all those machines. I wonder if it is "remotely" possible to get some small set of computers declared "historical landmarks" with similar treatment? People should not have the automatic right to destroy history, or historical artifacts. And make that roast, then flay, slow. ;) From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Fri Dec 3 15:08:59 1999 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: RZ56 Help needed Message-ID: <01JJ2I43OQZM95NJ0F@cc.usu.edu> >I am trying to install NetBSD on my MicroVAX 3100. I would like to >install it on the RZ56 which is in its own expansion box. The problem, >or so I am told, is that the drive as it is needs to be told to spin up >and NetBSD doesn't do that. > >It has been suggested that there might be a jumper to tell it to spin up >automatically. Does anyone here know if that is the case, and if so, >where it is? Hmm. I didn't have any luck with the RZ56 and the MicroVAX 3100. I never had any time to track it down. As a first attempt to see if it will work at all, you can do a SHOW DEV at the >>> prompt to get the console to spin up all the disks. It's been my experience that NetBSD hangs while trying to probe the SCSI bus if there's an RZ56 on the SCSI bus. I'm not aware of a jumper that makes the RZ56 spin up, but there is a setting in one of the mode pages. There was a program under Ultrix called rzdisk that allowed you to, among other things, tell the drives to spin up at power on. I think there was a similar program for Alpha/VMS as well. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 3 18:05:12 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: <991203163539.21e001d5@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991203180512.43dff3ac@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:35 PM 12/3/99 -0500, Tim asked: > >What is the rest of the solder? Tin, lead, something else? I just got an answer from Kester. Here's what they said: "Electronic Silver Solder is a trade mark name. The alloy is Sn62Pb36Ag02 (2% Silver). The melting range is 179 - 189 deg C (354 - 372 deg F). The rosin flux inside the wire is Kester 44. Information regarding Kester 44 cored flux can be found on www.kester.com" As you can see, it melts at well under 500d F. BTW one the things that I love about this stuff is that it leaves very little flux residue. Joe From truthanl at oclc.org Fri Dec 3 16:14:01 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE2A@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Thanks for the thread. I have I Plessy 6700 PDP 11/24 work-alike, But its native drive is SCSI. I will Check into alternate controllers / formatters. DEC Model numbering is greek to me Sincerely Larry Truthan Yeah, sure, folks have been doing this for about a decade and a half. See, in particular, ftp://ftp.spc.edu/third-party-disks.txt At a minimum, before getting any further, you're going to need some way to format arbitrary MFM drives to what the DEC controllers will expect for a low-level format, either a VS2000 with its built-in console formatter, or one of the DEC XXDP formatters (ZRQB for the RQDX2, ZRQC for the RQDX3) and a PDP-11 to run them on. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 3 16:18:02 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) In-Reply-To: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE29@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Message-ID: >Zane, > >Do you stay with DEC OEM Model NUMBER on replacement? > >What utilities exist to help identify drives to a MicroVAX? > >Can I "dummy" some CYL/SPT/Hd count and hand it to the MicroVax and have the >OS Come in later and claim its an RD5? something provided the figures match? > >Like, Whats the difference between a Quantum Q-540 and a DEC RD52? > >Since Allison Parent mentioned that the RD52 was a Q-540, I have looked it >up in "The Hard Disk Technical Guide" by Micro-House. All the details are >there. > >If I were to Find a Micropolis or CDC drive that fit some larger DEC >equivalent on CYL/SPT/Heads MFM ST506 RPM etc what would stop me from >generating a workable drive profile? > >Anyone done this? Depends. In the case of RDxx drives I use whatever I can get my hands on. I think one of my 3 RD54's is the real thing. One someone else setup as an RD54, the third is the Maxtor that's the exact same drive. I don't think there is *any* difference between a RD52 and a Q540 other than the DEC formatting. For RDxx drives, I've got a VAXstation 2000 that I've used to format them. It's the only thing the system is used for, and it's the only thing that particular VS2000 is good for. It has bad memory, but can still be used as a drive formatter, and I don't have any desire to be bothered with fixing it up. I'm trying to get away from having any of my systems using MFM Hard Drives though for obvious reasons, though with some like the Pro380 I don't have any chioce. For SCSI drives I generally use DEC drives, though I've got non-DEC drives in my pair of AlphaStation 200's, one of which causes problems unless it's tricked into spining up before I boot the system. I'm not sure if some of my StorageWorks drives are 3rd party or not I was thinking they were, but am no longer sure. Though on my PDP-11's I prefer non-DEC SCSI drives that auto-spinup. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 3 16:09:23 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: IBM 730T $50? In-Reply-To: <71547906CDACD211BE300008C733838D244CD7@exchange_forest.forumcap.com> Message-ID: One of the salvage places has a stack of these 'tablet' computers. Each is in a nice looking medium sized briefcase/suitcase that is made to hold a battery, printer, and the unit itself plus manuals and doodads. I don't know if they are new or used, they look nice and seem complete with all mentioned items. The IBM model is thinkpad 730T (I think) and they want $50 a pop for them. The company is Recomp in Santa Ana Cal, and I may not see them again for a month or more, and they don't ship AFAIK. (which is why I hesitated to mention them earlier, but what the heck). From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 3 16:32:07 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: <3848313F.3395B050@cornell.edu> References: Message-ID: >Tony Duell wrote: >> Another warning. There's a stuff called 'silver solder' used by >> engineers. This is _NOT_ the same stuff at all -- it's high melting point >> (you can use it on small steam engine boilers, etc). I'm not sure it even >> contains silver. > >I believe it does contain silver indeed. It is _very_ expensive. >And you need acethylene+O2 in order to use it. I have a spool (1 lb?) sitting behind me of 96 SN silver solder, wasn't "too" expensive and melts with a slightly hotter tip in my weller. What I was told to watch out for in silver solder is that it is indeed commonly used for mechanical instead of electrical work so much of it is acid core. Perhaps it was this list, but I have just read about solder removal alloy. Its a solder looking stuff used to remove complex multipin chips. You melt it onto the existing solder and it forms an alloy with a VERY low melting point so the chip can be removed with much less heat, ie wave a heat gun and it drops off. I used to make silver jewelry, mostly sterling (92.5% AG), but some fine as well (99.9% AG) and I can assure you a butane/air torch will melt silver solder, and silver. The spread must not be too great, because I did the latter many many times. Very pleasurable work though. Given silver is less than $4/oz no alloy that we ever used exceeded that cost by more than 25% regardless of the shape etc. except for cast parts and they by no more than 50%. From PSYCEDILLO at aol.com Fri Dec 3 16:54:33 1999 From: PSYCEDILLO at aol.com (PSYCEDILLO@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: DEC LA36 Decwriter II Message-ID: <0.783c0585.2579a429@aol.com> Dear John: If you still have the DEC LA36 Decwriter II please advise. I need one desperately. My last one "died" and I need it for an old computer system. I am in Illinois, but my sons live in southern CA. They could coordinate taking it off you hands. I look forward to you reply Thanks BOB PSYCEDILLO@aol.com From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 3 15:44:04 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: TK50 orientation? In-Reply-To: "Daniel T. Burrows" "Re: TK50 orientation?" (Dec 3, 15:11) References: <009a01bf3dcc$60bb3ed0$a652e780@L166> Message-ID: <9912032144.ZM1304@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 15:11, Daniel T. Burrows wrote: > If they are only supposed to be horizintal then you can't put them in a BA23 > in a pedistial configuration. My TK50 User Guide (EK-OTK50-UG-004) shows them in both TK50-D standalone (horizontal) and BA23 (vertical, on their left side if it makes a difference) cabinets. My DEC-original MicroVAX in a BA23 has a TK50 on its side; it was a standard configuration. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 3 16:02:26 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: RZ56 Help needed In-Reply-To: allisonp@world.std.com "Re: RZ56 Help needed" (Dec 3, 15:47) References: Message-ID: <9912032202.ZM1319@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 15:47, allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > I am trying to install NetBSD on my MicroVAX 3100. I would like to > > install it on the RZ56 which is in its own expansion box. The problem, > > or so I am told, is that the drive as it is needs to be told to spin up > > and NetBSD doesn't do that. > > Do a >>>show dev as that has to spin it up to talk to it. > > > It has been suggested that there might be a jumper to tell it to spin up > > automatically. Does anyone here know if that is the case, and if so, > > where it is? > > No there isn't that I can remember. Alison is probably correct. Some DEC drives do have a jumper to select spinup on power-up, but the RZ23/24/25 definitely don't (the original Connor drives do, but DEC changed the firmware) and some notes I have here suggest the RZ55/56 have different firmware too. What you'll get out of the drive depends on what the OS is trying to do: a SCSI MODE SENSE command will work fine, but you won't be able to do anything more interesting until the disk has spun up (which is done by issuing a START UNIT command). DEC used to have a utility called RZSPINUP to do this, but any SCSI utility that can issue a START UNIT command would do as well. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 3 16:57:22 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related)" (Dec 3, 18:45) References: Message-ID: <9912032257.ZM1338@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 18:45, Tony Duell wrote: > That silver-loaded solder is great stuff. I have a reel that I use for > SMD work and for repairs on Tektronix 500 series (which use silver-plated > ceramic terminal strips). It was expensive, but it lasts a _long_ time. > > Another warning. There's a stuff called 'silver solder' used by > engineers. This is _NOT_ the same stuff at all -- it's high melting point > (you can use it on small steam engine boilers, etc). I'm not sure it even > contains silver. Oh yes it does :-) "silver-loaded" solder only contains tiny amounts of silver (about 2%) but "silver solder" usually contains more silver than any other constituent. EasyFlo is 60% silver, and most are between 30% and 65% silver. The cadmium-free versions contain more than most: Ag19 is 85% silver, 15% manganese. So the book says, anyway, I've never felt the need to put anything that expensive in a blowtorch flame :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 3 16:49:18 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Solder Melting Point In-Reply-To: Marvin "Solder Melting Point" (Dec 3, 12:17) References: <8025683C.00416215.00@WESTD90.pgen.co.uk> <38482570.3593FD34@rain.org> Message-ID: <9912032249.ZM1334@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 12:17, Marvin wrote: > Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > > > > Eh? Silver solder is certainly very nice, flows well, bonds to a lot of metals, > > etc., but isn't it usually _higher_ melting point? Conventional solder melts at > > around 450 F, I think. (Anyone have the exact figure?), silver solder typically > > at 600. Yes, yes, no; see below... > The melting point of solder varies depending on its composition. Eutectic > solder (63/37) melts at about 361 degrees F and the melting point raises as > the percentage of either the lead or tin content raises. That's not *exactly* true; the solidus point (the temperature at which it begins to melt) remains almost exactly the same, but the liquidus point rises. In between, though, the solder is rather pasty. That's great for old-fashioned plumbing, but it's apt to produce dry joints in electronics, so for practical purposes, the useful temperature rises just as Marvin says. For example, 40/60 solder has a liquidus point of 227C (440F) and 60/40 has a liquidus point of 188C (370F). Adding certain other metals, especially bismuth, lowers the melting point, though many other additives, such as antimony, raise it. According to my Multicore Solder list, the recommended bit temperature for 40/60 general-purpose electronics solder is 354C (670F), and for 60/40 it's 308C (585F). Personally, I'm never that precise; I just twist the setscrew on my Oryx TC irons until they work right! "Silver solder" comes in a variety of grades, the ones with the lowest melting points are ArgoSwift and EasyFlo2 which melt at 600-610C (1100-1130F, that's a dull red heat). EasyFlo2 is 42% silver, 17% copper, 16% zinc, and 25% cadmium. Most engineering silver solders are silver+brass based like this. A few are silver-bronze (bronze being an alloy of copper and tin). The "silver-loaded" solder Tony and others mentioned is a soft solder containing 62% tin, 36% lead, and 2% silver. It has a melting point of 179C (354F) and a recommended bit temperature of 300-310C (570-590F). Other silver/tin/lead solders like Comsol (I bet Tony has come across that) and LM5 are high-melting point soft solders, with a high lead content. I've seen them used for fusible resistors and the like. I expect this is at least four times as much as most of you ever wanted to know about that silvery-grey stuff that holds the components on... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From jallain at databaseamerica.com Fri Dec 3 17:06:13 1999 From: jallain at databaseamerica.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: IBM 730T $50? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001bf3de2$ffde3880$0e0301ac@dba00802.databaseamerica.com> 730T = 4MB Memory 80486(sx?) typically, Can run Win 3.11 easily but requires either/or: A Keyboard adaptor (is in the suitcase) A PCMCIA disk with "Windows for Pen Computing" on it. It almost apprears that "Windows for Pen Computing" has been withdrawn --with extreme prejudice-- after WinCE came out. I have not been able to find a copy since starting to look for it 6 months ago. Nice sturdy small machine. 730T's are Much easier to find than the Software. -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Mike Ford Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 5:09 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: IBM 730T $50? One of the salvage places has a stack of these 'tablet' computers. Each is in a nice looking medium sized briefcase/suitcase that is made to hold a battery, printer, and the unit itself plus manuals and doodads. I don't know if they are new or used, they look nice and seem complete with all mentioned items. The IBM model is thinkpad 730T (I think) and they want $50 a pop for them. The company is Recomp in Santa Ana Cal, and I may not see them again for a month or more, and they don't ship AFAIK. (which is why I hesitated to mention them earlier, but what the heck). From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 3 17:09:23 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: RZ56 Help needed In-Reply-To: "Truthan,Larry" "RE: RZ56 Help needed" (Dec 3, 16:11) References: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE28@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Message-ID: <9912032309.ZM1548@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 16:11, Truthan,Larry wrote: > My Point would be that the ABSENCE of option jumpers on pin headers usually > defaulted to immediate start. > If you see an option jumper on the RZ56 other than SCSI ID. Would it hurt > to pull it? Dunno. But those DEC drives are rebadged Connors, and the Connor norm was to have link-present = auto-spinup. For example, on an RZ25, which is the only one I know for sure DEC didn't disable the option on, you fit a jumper on J6 position 2 to enable auto-spinup. I also know this doesn't work for RZ23s or RZ24s. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 3 17:06:06 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: Carlos Murillo-Sanchez "Re: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related)" (Dec 3, 16:08) References: <3848313F.3395B050@cornell.edu> Message-ID: <9912032306.ZM1539@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 16:08, Carlos Murillo-Sanchez wrote: > Tony Duell wrote: > > Another warning. There's a stuff called 'silver solder' used by > > engineers. This is _NOT_ the same stuff at all -- it's high melting point > > (you can use it on small steam engine boilers, etc). I'm not sure it even > > contains silver. > > I believe it does contain silver indeed. It is _very_ expensive. > And you need acethylene+O2 in order to use it. Not usually; the whole point of most silver solders is that they have a low melting point compared to, say, brazing alloys, and can be used with a butane or propane torch in air. The cadmium-free ones, though, are used because they don't adversely affect other materials (eg titanium) and they have rather higher melting points, similar to brazing alloy or even higher. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 3 16:22:22 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 3, 99 10:53:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 247 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991203/8f20fddc/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 3 17:18:12 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com "Re: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related)" (Dec 3, 16:35) References: <991203163539.21e001d5@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <9912032318.ZM1589@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 16:35, CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > The indium-rich solders are *really* neat stuff, if you ever get a > chance to work with them. Melting temperatures down to near room temperature > are available, as well as entire series of solder alloys with graduated > melting temperatures for building up intricate assemblies. And many indium > solders will even wet and stick to *glass*. Yes, you just reminded me of a visit years ago to an optical works owned by a friend's father. How do you mount an unfinished non-circular glass lens in a lathe (of sorts) to finish it? Answer: you take some LMP alloy such as you describe, melt it in a short cylindical mould, float the lens on top, let it cool, and mount the cylinder with glass attached in the lathe chuck. To remove the alloy later, place it in a warm water bath. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From lemay at cs.umn.edu Fri Dec 3 17:49:28 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. In-Reply-To: from Mike Ford at "Dec 3, 1999 01:33:23 pm" Message-ID: <199912032349.XAA06288@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > >Flay somebody? We all knew these gold processing plants existed, > >right? I'd never heard a tale of the scope, though. Even still, > >it's clear this factory has volume. There's not enough classic > >computer collectors in the world to rescue all those machines. > > I wonder if it is "remotely" possible to get some small set of computers > declared "historical landmarks" with similar treatment? People should not > have the automatic right to destroy history, or historical artifacts. > > And make that roast, then flay, slow. ;) > > Well, maybe we should start a National Computer Preservation Historical Society, and then once we have a couple hundred members (should take all of 1 hour...) then we start sending letters to our representatives asking them to write a bill similar to whatever empowers the people that preserve historical buildings and landmarks. Of course, real influence comes with a historical society that has been in existance for many years, but of course you have to start sometime ;) -Lawrence LeMay From dylanb at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 3 16:44:24 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek Message-ID: <00d601bf3ddf$f297cfe0$e370e2d1@default> -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 03, 1999 6:42 PM Subject: Re: Basic Source for Super Star Trek >You have OCR software for paper tape? > > Zane > Zane, He's kidding!!!!.. We tend to call that device an "optical paper tape reader".. If you don't want to send it to the UK then I can help you out. john >>If you sent me a paper copy, I would be willing to scan it and run through my >>OCR software. >> >>john >> >>On Thu, Dec 02, 1999 at 09:51:41AM -0500, KFergason@aol.com wrote: >>> >>> I have a copy, on paper, of the HP2000F version. >>> >>> sttr1.bas >>> >>> Kelly >>> >>> >>> In a message dated Wed, 1 Dec 1999 9:56:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Al >>>Kossow writes: >>> >>> > "I do have the >>> > original SPACWR.BAS (Mike Mayfield, converted by David Ahl, I think) >>>if you >>> > want that..." >>> > >>> > it would be nice to find the original HP2000 version somewhere. The copy >>> > that Jeff Moffatt has on the HP2100 page looks like a bad read. >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| and Zane's Computer Museum. | >| http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From res008pw at gte.net Fri Dec 3 17:50:40 1999 From: res008pw at gte.net (Jim McCarthy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) References: <991203163539.21e001d5@trailing-edge.com> <9912032318.ZM1589@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <38485750.6566@gte.net> Pete Turnbull wrote: >> And many indium solders will even wet and stick to *glass*. > > Yes, you just reminded me of a visit years ago to an optical works > owned by a friend's father. How do you mount an unfinished non- > circular glass lens in a lathe (of sorts) to finish it? Answer: > you take some LMP alloy such as you describe, melt it in a short > cylindical mould, float the lens on top, let it cool, and mount the > cylinder with glass attached in the lathe chuck. To remove the > alloy later, place it in a warm water bath. Apologies in advance for perpetuating this off-topic thread, but at the optical shop where I worked one summer during my college years, the "LMP alloy" used for such jobs was either "wax" or "pitch" (pine tar), not anything as esoteric as indium metal. -- Jim McCarthy jkmccarthy@pacbell.net From transit at primenet.com Fri Dec 3 17:56:27 1999 From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same? In-Reply-To: <000701bf3476$9ddf36e0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: Hello, I have access to a "Midi Gold 500" Amiga Midi Interface. Will it work on the A2000 (I know the A1000 serial port is physically different, and may be electrically different as well). Thanks in advance! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ transit@primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Dec 3 17:57:28 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: RZ56 Help needed Message-ID: <199912032357.SAA26156@world.std.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19991201211129.00a65d20@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991203191314.009545b0@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: >> to program in a save game function, so my buddy and I did one day... [[Boy, >> those were the days... If you don't like it, Fix it! ;-) Something Gates > >You mean you _don't_ still do that? I sure do -- if I get a program that >doesn't work properly (and _I_ get to define 'properly') then I hack >about with the source. Of course running entirely open-source (or at >least source-is-available) programs helps ;-) Actually, I don't do it that much anymore... I've found hacking someone else's source like that can be *almost* as time-consuming, so for the small "quick-n-dirty" proggies that I've been known to frequent over the last few years, I've found it quicker just to bag it and write my own... reinventing the wheel doesn't take that darned long if you're just cutting it out of a piece of paper, if you will. ;-) Now, on longer proggies where I can't (or don't) get a handle on all the logic & just need to add one quick little feature, I have been known muck about in other people's source code... whether or not I actually know the language... :-) ==================== I've got a little good news today... it sounds like I'm getting a MicroVAX!!! Dunno what flavor, but it must be a little newer - it's running Ultrix. So... I have a few questions: 1) Is there a webpage/FAQ of different uVAX types with initial specs? I don't know 'zactly what I'm getting yet, but I'd like to get familiar with the uVAX line beforehand, so I don't sound like a complete dummy... ;-) 2) Is there a hobbyist licen[sc]e of older versions of Ultrix in case he can't find me any OS media, or is it the consensus here of "why the #&^@^( do you want to run that Unix crap anyway when VMS is better/more fun/etc.?" 3) Can *all* Vaxen run with a serial terminal (just in case this one doesn't come with a framebuffer / compat. monitor... I have to Lear-Siegler ADM-31's (IIRC - I saved 'em for $5 each and just set them in my garage... they'll need a little cleaning.) I'd hate to get a uVAX sans monitor, and find that it needs one to work... I don't want this box to be a doorstop - I want to use it! :-) Well, I don't want to flood all the VaxHeads with a ton of newbie questions, so the FAQ locations would be really nice & I can leave you alone until I'm smarter in these woods... but with all the bad bummin' talk about all these computers we can't save... I saved a VAX!!! ;-) Thanks & Cheers, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From af-list at is1.wfi-inc.com Fri Dec 3 18:26:40 1999 From: af-list at is1.wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Solder Melting Point In-Reply-To: <9912032249.ZM1334@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: I had a hell of a time for a while finding solder that I liked to work with, until someone suggested Kester 44. I paid too much for the first roll and then stumbled onto 20 large spools of it at a thrift shop for $.50 each. More than I'll probably use in the next 10 years. This is related in the way that I did a bunch of research into the properties of different types of solder, so the discussion on this has been really interesting. Thanks, Pete... Cheers, Aaron On Fri, 3 Dec 1999, Pete Turnbull wrote: > On Dec 3, 12:17, Marvin wrote: > > Philip.Belben@pgen.com wrote: > > > > > > Eh? Silver solder is certainly very nice, flows well, bonds to a lot > of metals, > > > etc., but isn't it usually _higher_ melting point? Conventional solder > melts at > > > around 450 F, I think. (Anyone have the exact figure?), silver solder > typically > > > at 600. > > Yes, yes, no; see below... > > > The melting point of solder varies depending on its composition. Eutectic > > solder (63/37) melts at about 361 degrees F and the melting point raises > as > > the percentage of either the lead or tin content raises. > > That's not *exactly* true; the solidus point (the temperature at which it > begins to melt) remains almost exactly the same, but the liquidus point > rises. In between, though, the solder is rather pasty. That's great for > old-fashioned plumbing, but it's apt to produce dry joints in electronics, > so for practical purposes, the useful temperature rises just as Marvin > says. > > For example, 40/60 solder has a liquidus point of 227C (440F) and 60/40 has > a liquidus point of 188C (370F). Adding certain other metals, especially > bismuth, lowers the melting point, though many other additives, such as > antimony, raise it. According to my Multicore Solder list, the recommended > bit temperature for 40/60 general-purpose electronics solder is 354C > (670F), and for 60/40 it's 308C (585F). Personally, I'm never that > precise; I just twist the setscrew on my Oryx TC irons until they work > right! > > "Silver solder" comes in a variety of grades, the ones with the lowest > melting points are ArgoSwift and EasyFlo2 which melt at 600-610C > (1100-1130F, that's a dull red heat). EasyFlo2 is 42% silver, 17% copper, > 16% zinc, and 25% cadmium. Most engineering silver solders are > silver+brass based like this. A few are silver-bronze (bronze being an > alloy of copper and tin). > > The "silver-loaded" solder Tony and others mentioned is a soft solder > containing 62% tin, 36% lead, and 2% silver. It has a melting point of > 179C (354F) and a recommended bit temperature of 300-310C (570-590F). > > Other silver/tin/lead solders like Comsol (I bet Tony has come across that) > and LM5 are high-melting point soft solders, with a high lead content. > I've seen them used for fusible resistors and the like. > > I expect this is at least four times as much as most of you ever wanted to > know about that silvery-grey stuff that holds the components on... > > -- > > Pete Peter Turnbull > Dept. of Computer Science > University of York > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 3 20:19:10 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: References: <3848313F.3395B050@cornell.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991203201910.477fb292@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:32 PM 12/3/99 -0800, you wrote: >>Tony Duell wrote: >>> Another warning. There's a stuff called 'silver solder' used by >>> engineers. This is _NOT_ the same stuff at all -- it's high melting point >>> (you can use it on small steam engine boilers, etc). I'm not sure it even >>> contains silver. >> >>I believe it does contain silver indeed. It is _very_ expensive. >>And you need acethylene+O2 in order to use it. > >I have a spool (1 lb?) sitting behind me of 96 SN silver solder, wasn't >"too" expensive and melts with a slightly hotter tip in my weller. That's the same kind of stuff that they sell here for soldering copper water pipes. NO LEAD ALLOWED! The last time I checked it costs about $16/pound. That's cheaper than good electrical solder. What I >was told to watch out for in silver solder is that it is indeed commonly >used for mechanical instead of electrical work so much of it is acid core. You have to watch out for any solder and make sure it's for electrical work. There are many other kinds of solder and many (most?) of them have acid fluxs. You can use it on electrical stuff but you'll be replacing everything in about six months! > >Perhaps it was this list, but I have just read about solder removal alloy. >Its a solder looking stuff used to remove complex multipin chips. You melt >it onto the existing solder and it forms an alloy with a VERY low melting >point so the chip can be removed with much less heat, ie wave a heat gun >and it drops off. That's an interesting idea. But I certain that you'd have to heat the joint to the melting pont of the old solder before this stuff would alloy with it. If that's the case then you could just take the part off then and not go through all the rest of the procedure. I've mixed various lead alloys for casting bullets and you have to heat the mix to the melting point of the element with the highest melting point before they will all melt and alloy together. This is true even if the alloy has a lower MP than the individual elements. Joe From dburrows at netpath.net Fri Dec 3 18:00:03 1999 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: VMS 4.7 was VAXstation 3100 history (Was ... different) Message-ID: <019701bf3def$4c3bd190$a652e780@L166> >RD54 is Maxtor2190, look that up. The RD53 is a Micropolis 1325 with a fumper installed in the empty R7 location. >Now, heres the nasty part. Of the RD52/3/4 disks there are Quantum, >Micropolus and MAXTOR drives non DEC branded. They are the same. They >are also different! The NON-DEC supplied are not formatted to match the >RQDX2/3 controllers. So if you find some D540s, you may also have to >format them... you likely don't have diags to do that. So even with a >pile of them your still not ahead. > >Solution: prevail on someone that bas a Qbus PDP-11 with diags that can >format the drive. Also they will have to be done manually IE: do not try to use the automatic option. I do it frequently for commercial customers. Often enough for me to dedicate a BA123 primarily that use. Dan From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 3 18:47:26 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek In-Reply-To: <00d601bf3ddf$f297cfe0$e370e2d1@default> from "John B" at Dec 03, 1999 05:44:24 PM Message-ID: <199912040047.QAA05638@shell1.aracnet.com> No, he's serious. I got a reply from him. The thing is one of us misunderstood what was being refered to, and I'm honestly not sure which of us misunderstood. I thought he was refering to OCRing papertape, he's talking about OCRing a printout of the source. The question is, is Kelly talking about a printout, or papertape? Zane > Zane, He's kidding!!!!.. We tend to call that device an "optical paper tape > reader".. If you don't want to send it to the UK then I can help you out. > > john > > >You have OCR software for paper tape? > > > > Zane > > >>If you sent me a paper copy, I would be willing to scan it and run through > my > >>OCR software. > >> > >>john > >> > >>On Thu, Dec 02, 1999 at 09:51:41AM -0500, KFergason@aol.com wrote: > >>> > >>> I have a copy, on paper, of the HP2000F version. > >>> > >>> sttr1.bas > >>> > >>> Kelly > >>> > >>> > >>> In a message dated Wed, 1 Dec 1999 9:56:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, Al > >>>Kossow writes: > >>> > >>> > "I do have the > >>> > original SPACWR.BAS (Mike Mayfield, converted by David Ahl, I think) > >>>if you > >>> > want that..." > >>> > > >>> > it would be nice to find the original HP2000 version somewhere. The > copy > >>> > that Jeff Moffatt has on the HP2100 page looks like a bad read. From jpero at cgocable.net Fri Dec 3 14:02:20 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Solder Melting Point In-Reply-To: References: <9912032249.ZM1334@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> Message-ID: <199912040101.UAA14033@admin.cgocable.net> > Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 16:26:40 -0800 (PST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Aaron Christopher Finney > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Solder Melting Point > X-To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > I had a hell of a time for a while finding solder that I liked to work > with, until someone suggested Kester 44. I paid too much for the first > roll and then stumbled onto 20 large spools of it at a thrift shop for > $.50 each. More than I'll probably use in the next 10 years. Hey, You'all should have tried the Multicore brand. It's most consistent and melts cleanly, flux very clean compared to Kester 44 and RS solder (that's worst!). I have used all 3 of these and I find Multicore best. Especially when trying to melt just a tad onto SMD stuff. The Kester is more inconsistent, sometimes can get some, sometimes can't get it started sometimes gets out of control and it's flux burns bit more than I like. Kester is best for nonthing or all use on gross work not on detailed work. The RS solder is even worse. Most of time I get pasty solder out of it and it's core flux is very unreliable at best. Wizard Snip! From KFergason at aol.com Fri Dec 3 19:13:01 1999 From: KFergason at aol.com (KFergason@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek Message-ID: <0.f3497174.2579c49d@aol.com> I sent a reply to that, but it didn't seem to hit the list. printout on thermal paper. kelly In a message dated 12/3/99 6:47:50 PM Central Standard Time, healyzh@aracnet.com writes: > No, he's serious. I got a reply from him. The thing is one of us > misunderstood what was being refered to, and I'm honestly not sure which of > us misunderstood. I thought he was refering to OCRing papertape, he's > talking about OCRing a printout of the source. The question is, is Kelly > talking about a printout, or papertape? > > Zane > > From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Dec 3 19:24:23 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek In-Reply-To: <0.f3497174.2579c49d@aol.com> from "KFergason@aol.com" at Dec 03, 1999 08:13:01 PM Message-ID: <199912040124.SAA15950@calico.litterbox.com> Would the person who originally requested the David Ahl BASIC source for super star trek please e-mail me again? I've misplaced your e-mail. I have the scans ready to send. (actually, if anyone else wants copies of these scans, let me know and I'll mail them to you too. If there's enough interest I'll just stick them on my web page. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 3 18:59:54 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991203201910.477fb292@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 3, 99 08:19:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1112 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991204/a51eb97e/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 3 19:20:46 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: RZ56 Help needed In-Reply-To: Allison J Parent "Re: RZ56 Help needed" (Dec 3, 18:57) References: <199912032357.SAA26156@world.std.com> Message-ID: <9912040120.ZM1829@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 18:57, Allison J Parent wrote: > > > Only some are. Some are Seagate and others are DEC unique design. I > believe the RZ56 is micropolus. However the one I'm holding does not say > that. My mistake :-( I know DEC bought drives from almost every manufacturer at one time or another, but for some reason I thought the RZ56 was a Connor. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Fri Dec 3 19:34:20 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: Joe "Re: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related)" (Dec 3, 20:19) References: <3848313F.3395B050@cornell.edu> <3.0.1.16.19991203201910.477fb292@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <9912040134.ZM1835@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 3, 20:19, Joe wrote: > >I have a spool (1 lb?) sitting behind me of 96 SN silver solder, wasn't > >"too" expensive and melts with a slightly hotter tip in my weller. > > That's the same kind of stuff that they sell here for soldering copper > water pipes. NO LEAD ALLOWED! The last time I checked it costs about > $16/pound. That's cheaper than good electrical solder. Same here, at least for new installations. There are regulations about the flux, too, I beleive. > You have to watch out for any solder and make sure it's for electrical > work. There are many other kinds of solder and many (most?) of them have > acid fluxs. You can use it on electrical stuff but you'll be replacing > everything in about six months! Yes, most fluxes apart from rosin are at least mildly acidic, including some electrical types -- you just have to ensure you wash them off properly (and soon). > That's an interesting idea. But I certain that you'd have to heat the > joint to the melting pont of the old solder before this stuff would alloy > with it. If that's the case then you could just take the part off then and > not go through all the rest of the procedure. I've mixed various lead > alloys for casting bullets and you have to heat the mix to the melting > point of the element with the highest melting point before they will all > melt and alloy together. This is true even if the alloy has a lower MP than > the individual elements. Curiously, that's not always the case, especially if you consider surface effects. Solder actually sticks to a metal surface by forming a very thin layer of an alloy with it. In effect, the solder dissolves the other metal very slightly. That's partly why a copper soldering iron bit gradually wears away even if you keep it well tinned, and partly why thin plain copper cable that has tinned ends is weakest just at the point where the tinning ends (the solder leaches away a tiny amount of copper, leaving the wire slightly thinner just at the junction). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 3 19:35:33 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: uVaxen In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991203191314.009545b0@127.0.0.1> from "Roger Merchberger" at Dec 03, 1999 07:13:14 PM Message-ID: <199912040135.RAA07583@shell1.aracnet.com> > I've got a little good news today... it sounds like I'm getting a > MicroVAX!!! Dunno what flavor, but it must be a little newer - it's running > Ultrix. So... I have a few questions: Cool, hard to answer many questions without knowing if it's a MV II, or a newer system. I like the Q-Bus MicroVAXen, but I hope it's one of the newer ones. > 1) Is there a webpage/FAQ of different uVAX types with initial specs? I > don't know 'zactly what I'm getting yet, but I'd like to get familiar with > the uVAX line beforehand, so I don't sound like a complete dummy... ;-) You should find the following usefull: http://anacin.nsc.vcu.edu/~jim/mvax/mvax_faq.html http://eisner.decus.org/vms/faq.htm http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/ http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/links.html > 2) Is there a hobbyist licen[sc]e of older versions of Ultrix in case he > can't find me any OS media, or is it the consensus here of "why the #&^@^( > do you want to run that Unix crap anyway when VMS is better/more fun/etc.?" Unfortunatly no. The closest I'm aware of is the Tru64 Hobbyist Kit for the Alpha, which I hear is quite good, but I just ordered my copy so can't say. I'm generally one of the people asking why the (^(*& do you want to run UNIX on a VAX, but I've got to confess that one of these days I want to get Ultrix running on one of my MV2's (the versions I've got are so old they won't support newer systems). Basically though I prefer to run UNIX on new fast hardware (I've got Solaris, Linux, and OpenBSD systems), though I am keeping my eyes open for a newer DECstation for NetBSD. If you get the system with Ultrix on it, you might consider getting some other disks so you can run both Ultrix and VMS on it. > 3) Can *all* Vaxen run with a serial terminal (just in case this one > doesn't come with a framebuffer / compat. monitor... I have to Lear-Siegler > ADM-31's (IIRC - I saved 'em for $5 each and just set them in my garage... > they'll need a little cleaning.) I'd hate to get a uVAX sans monitor, and > find that it needs one to work... I don't want this box to be a doorstop - > I want to use it! :-) Well, since you said it's a MicroVAX, that tends to indicate you need a serial terminal. I run a lot of my systems, including a couple AlphaStations with VT420's instead of monitors. Not sure how well the ADM-31 will work, you might find a PC running a terminal program such as Telix might work better. > Well, I don't want to flood all the VaxHeads with a ton of newbie > questions, so the FAQ locations would be really nice & I can leave you > alone until I'm smarter in these woods... but with all the bad bummin' talk > about all these computers we can't save... I saved a VAX!!! ;-) Ask away. Zane From staylor at mrynet.com Fri Dec 3 11:59:30 1999 From: staylor at mrynet.com (S. Akmentins-Teilors) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek Message-ID: <199912040159.RAA87180@mrynet.com> > Would the person who originally requested the David Ahl BASIC source for > super star trek please e-mail me again? I've misplaced your e-mail. I have > the scans ready to send. (actually, if anyone else wants copies of these > scans, let me know and I'll mail them to you too. If there's enough interest > I'll just stick them on my web page. Um, "me too" :D Please, to staylor@mrynet.com. Cheers, -- Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor@mrynet.com MRY Systems staylor@mrynet.lv (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") ----- Labak miris neka sarkans ----- From ken_g at MailAndNews.com Fri Dec 3 20:10:23 1999 From: ken_g at MailAndNews.com (Ken Guenther) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek Message-ID: <384ADFD0@MailAndNews.com> I would be interested also. >===== Original Message From classiccmp@u.washington.edu ===== >Would the person who originally requested the David Ahl BASIC source for >super star trek please e-mail me again? I've misplaced your e-mail. I have >the scans ready to send. (actually, if anyone else wants copies of these >scans, let me know and I'll mail them to you too. If there's enough interest >I'll just stick them on my web page. > >-- >Jim Strickland >jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- From zmerch at 30below.com Fri Dec 3 20:50:39 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek In-Reply-To: <384ADFD0@MailAndNews.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991203215039.009408e0@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that Ken Guenther may have mentioned these words: >I would be interested also. > >>===== Original Message From classiccmp@u.washington.edu ===== >>Would the person who originally requested the David Ahl BASIC source for >>super star trek please e-mail me again? I've misplaced your e-mail. I have >>the scans ready to send. (actually, if anyone else wants copies of these >>scans, let me know and I'll mail them to you too. If there's enough interest >>I'll just stick them on my web page. If you're worried about webpage storage allocations, I'd be happy to mirror them on my site (it sucks, but I don't care if you directly link to the subpages... ;-) I don't have a webpage storage limit - I own the ISP!!! :-) HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Dec 3 20:56:13 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991203215039.009408e0@127.0.0.1> from "Roger Merchberger" at Dec 03, 1999 09:50:39 PM Message-ID: <199912040256.TAA16380@calico.litterbox.com> > > Rumor has it that Ken Guenther may have mentioned these words: > >I would be interested also. > > > >>===== Original Message From classiccmp@u.washington.edu ===== > >>Would the person who originally requested the David Ahl BASIC source for > >>super star trek please e-mail me again? I've misplaced your e-mail. I have > >>the scans ready to send. (actually, if anyone else wants copies of these > >>scans, let me know and I'll mail them to you too. If there's enough > interest > >>I'll just stick them on my web page. > > If you're worried about webpage storage allocations, I'd be happy to mirror > them on my site (it sucks, but I don't care if you directly link to the > subpages... ;-) I don't have a webpage storage limit - I own the ISP!!! :-) > > HTH, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers > Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > > If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead > disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > Thanks for the kind offer, but I own the disk my web page is on at my web provider. :) -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 3 23:03:14 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Solder Problems (PDP-8/m related) In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19991203201910.477fb292@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991203230314.3c6f0018@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:59 AM 12/4/99 +0000, Tony wrote: >> >Perhaps it was this list, but I have just read about solder removal alloy. >> >Its a solder looking stuff used to remove complex multipin chips. You melt >> >it onto the existing solder and it forms an alloy with a VERY low melting >> >point so the chip can be removed with much less heat, ie wave a heat gun >> >and it drops off. >> >> That's an interesting idea. But I certain that you'd have to heat the >> joint to the melting pont of the old solder before this stuff would alloy > >Yes, sure you do. > >But the point is you can heat the pins of a PQFP (or whatever) _one at a >time_ and melt some of this alloy into the solder, thus making the >solder-alloy mix melt at a much lower temperature. Then, after you've >treated all the pins you can warm the device with a hot air gun or >similar which will melt the 'solder' on all the pins which will then flip >off the board. Hmmm. Well I guess that's one way of doing it. But I take stuff like this off by heating the pins one at time and slipping a piece of very thin metal under them so that they don't restick to the circuit board. I take off 20 something pin surface mount devices this way in a matter of minutes. It doesn't mess up the board or part (I reuse both). Joe From jim at calico.litterbox.com Fri Dec 3 21:11:00 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: super star trek source Message-ID: <199912040311.UAA16445@calico.litterbox.com> Since there was significant interest in these scans (and to avoid hogging our link to the net and incuring the wrath of my spouse) I have uploaded the three pages of Ahl's book containing Super Star Trek to www.litterbox.com/jim Like the page says, they're quite large - around 2 megs each - in the intersts of being OCR-able. (scanned at 300dpi) My page is very vanilla html, so any old browser should work, including lynx. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Dec 3 21:20:47 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:05 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991203002606.0997b792@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <001701bf3d2c$c82fe2a0$ea49d1d8@default> Message-ID: <4.1.19991203220445.00a8eda0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 12:26 AM 12/3/99 +0000, Joe said something like: >At 08:21 PM 12/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>>FWIW: If he's under an "assured destruct" contract, and you're buying from >>>>him, >>>>then you both can be in a lot of hot water if the wrong people find out. >>> >>>OTHOH I have gotten things that were scrapped under "assured destruct" >>>contracts because the definition of "destruct" is "cannot be reconstituted >>>to work in the original application." > > That's essentually what the DOD requires now. I think their wording is >that it "can't be used for it's intended purpose." But many scrappers are >absoulutely forbidden to sell ANY circuit cards one some contacts no matter >who made it or what it's for. I know one scrapper that is also forbidden >to sell ANY intact components, even resistors and the like. Many of us who are collectors or users of military radios have seen the available gear on the market virtually dry up because of such policies promulgated by Congress. Their fear is that terrorists could use them against us. An 80+ pound, 1950's technology communications receiver used by terrorists against us? Hmmm, must be afraid of terrorists dropping one on their heads :-) Much discussion had been flowing on this subject on the military radio collectors, R390 and boatanchors lists over the past year or so. Some changes have been made such as removing the militarized versions of Kenwood-brand tranceivers from scrap lists at the DRMO level, but not most of the other old radios which hams, collectors and shortwave listeners could well use. Supercomputers, OTOH, are definitely lusted after by Iraq, Iran and several other "enemies" of the US plus Russia and China and I guess we can understand an assured destruct contract on those. Wish there was a clearing house to get those machines and associated operational support to North American or other Western Universities for research use instead of scrapping them. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Dec 3 21:24:49 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Do You Have a Yen to be a Millionaire! In-Reply-To: <117.413914.240208@unknown> Message-ID: <4.1.19991203222122.00a7e190@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 03:21 PM 12/3/99 +0000, yen111opp@hotmail.com said something like: -- Snip rudely sent HTML -- Well, at least they put a postal mailing address in this message. Maybe same outfit Bruce? Or has Hotmail become a 'hotbed' of spamming? I've got a yen to for certain not see them again ):-( --Chris -- -- From grrreatgift at hotmail.com Fri Dec 3 23:04:51 1999 From: grrreatgift at hotmail.com (grrreatgift@hotmail.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Great Christmas Gift! Message-ID: <234.745607.166723@unknown> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991203/75402273/attachment.html From edick at idcomm.com Fri Dec 3 22:07:23 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Do You Have a Yen to be a Millionaire! Message-ID: <000601bf3e0d$122b7c80$0400c0a8@winbook> If everyone forwards the offending email to < abuse@hotmail.com > they'll certainly claim it's a forged address unless it's real, in which case they'll close his account immediately. They're a popular forged source, though. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 03, 1999 8:30 PM Subject: Re: Do You Have a Yen to be a Millionaire! >Upon the date 03:21 PM 12/3/99 +0000, yen111opp@hotmail.com said something >like: > > -- Snip rudely sent HTML -- > >Well, at least they put a postal mailing address in this message. Maybe >same outfit Bruce? Or has Hotmail become a 'hotbed' of spamming? I've got a >yen to for certain not see them again ):-( > >--Chris >-- -- From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Fri Dec 3 22:25:41 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991203220445.00a8eda0@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Dec 3, 99 10:20:47 pm Message-ID: <199912040425.UAA10955@saul5.u.washington.edu> > Supercomputers, OTOH, are definitely lusted after by Iraq, Iran and several > other "enemies" of the US plus Russia and China and I guess we can > understand an assured destruct contract on those. Wish there was a clearing > house to get those machines and associated operational support to North > American or other Western Universities for research use instead of > scrapping them. OK, but that doesn't explain the IBM 1130, because that's hardly a supercomputer. There is an April Fool's post in which K&R admit UNIX was a hoax: We stopped when we got a clean compile on the following syntax: for(;P("\n"),R-;P("|"))for(e=C;e-;P("_"+(*u++/8)%2))P("| "+(*u/4)%2); To think that modern programmers would try to use a language that allowed such a statement was beyond our comprehension! We actually thought of selling this to the Soviets to set their computer science progress back 20 or more years. My point is that you could do the same thing with the 1130. I'm sure that even the poorest of dirt-poor countries with any computers have more powerful ones than the 1130. -- Derek From dylanb at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 3 21:42:08 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I need your assistance. Message-ID: <001901bf3e09$8a470080$1b6465cc@default> I don't like tubes. My experience with tubes is *very limited*. I have had a few crash courses over the past few years...... Okay, I bought the Tek RM503 for my PDP-8/S. When I turned it on I heard some terrible noises and found the power supply voltages were all over the place (way off , like 10V was 500 etc..). This scope uses a primary transformer to supply the 6.3V to most of the tubes and has a separate winding for 6.3V for the CRT heater. Off this transformer another winding fed to a voltage doubler and then to an oscillator with another transformer to create a wide range of voltages. (12V to -3000). Picture this... the -3000 volts is fed right into the CRT heater (which happens to be directly coupled with the primary transformer). I have been able to locate the problem somewhat. If I remove the -3000 volt line between the HV rectifier tube and the CRT itself then the scope works fine! All waveforms are proper and the power supply works great (no picture of course). It can be a few things... I am hoping someone here who use to work on tube units might be able to tell me which problem below it most likely is: #1) A bad HV rectifier tube causing the HV to come back to the second transformer which would put a few thousand volts back into the secondary winding taps causing high voltage everywhere. #2) Bad insulation on the primary transformer secondary "crt heater" winding which jumps over to the other winding that happens to be the main powersupply winding (125V X 2) #3) The -3000 volt wire is closely tied to the other low voltage wires. Is insulation breakdown possible due to a crack? My next step will be to take a reading on the primary transformer (first transformer, secondary winding [doubled winding]) and see if thousands of volts are there... That might help determine if there is an insulation breakdown but from what I can tell when the -3000V is hooked up every voltage goes crazy. I am going to bed.. Hopefully I wake up to a great answer ;-) john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com From nerdware at laidbak.com Fri Dec 3 23:26:20 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same? In-Reply-To: References: <000701bf3476$9ddf36e0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: <199912040626.AAA18787@garcon.laidbak.com> Date sent: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:56:27 -0800 (PST) Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: "Charles P. Hobbs" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same? Originally to: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers To the best of my knowledge, they are compatible. Midi away. Paul > > Hello, I have access to a "Midi Gold 500" Amiga Midi Interface. Will it > work on the A2000 (I know the A1000 serial port is physically different, > and may be electrically different as well). > > Thanks in advance! > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ > ___ ____ transit@primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ > / /_ / > / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- Paul Braun Cygnus Productions nerdware_nospam@laidbak.com From oprn at datamatics.co.in Sat Dec 4 00:00:32 1999 From: oprn at datamatics.co.in (Facility Division) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: VAX 6500 Message-ID: <000801bf3e1c$e2b40c00$c803a8c0@datamatics.com> Dear Ken Peck, We understand that you will be de-installing VAX-6500 somewhere in month of June. We are interested to know its config, version of O/S & the software residing on it. We also be interested to know the cost and other details such as date of purchase & licences of it. If the config suites our requirement we can discuss the other aspects later. Please provide the information to us lastest by 6th December1999 ie. Monday. Thanks & Regards. S.GUNJAL -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991204/753c4179/attachment.html From bill_r at inetnebr.com Sat Dec 4 00:50:13 1999 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Help Identify Vacuum Tube Computer Boards? Message-ID: <3867b950.181862404@insight> I dug out some old vacuum-tube-type computer boards I have had in storage since I bought them surplus in the 1970's. If anyone can take a look and tell me what they might have come from, I would very much appreciate it. They are on the link below: http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r/unidentified_technological_artif.htm -Bill Richman (bill_r@inetnebr.com) http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r - Home of the COSMAC Elf Microcomputer Simulator, Fun with Molten Metal, Orphaned Robots, and Technological Oddities. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Dec 4 01:34:32 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Tricks with third-party hardware (was Re: VAXstation vs MicroVAX) Message-ID: <19991204073432.13341.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> --- Roger Ivie wrote: > Aha! Another VAXBI survivor! And I've got the mounds of leftover crap to prove it! > The company I used to work for did a quad IEEE-488 interface... What an odd thing to make. That's a *lot* of instruments in a small amount of space (owing to cable-length limitations). > ...(imagine a Z80 looking up user-space addresses > in the page table. Fun!) Our drivers were a little different - first, all of our products were 68000- based. Second, we used 1/4th of the address space as shared memory to the VAX as a DMA cycle. Imagine this if you will... accessing 18 or 22 bits of 68K address space would return (or modify) the contents of a real physical memory location in the VAX. I have used one of our Qbus boards and a Fluke ICE tester to check LSI-11 DRAM chips... It works something like this... o Plug into a BA11-N an 11/03 CPU with a row of 4096 DRAMs socketed, a DL11-E, a COMBOARD-Q with the CPU removed and the Fluke plugged into the CPU socket. o Power on the BA11-N, then use ODT to flip a bit in the COMBOARD-Q CSR to enable DMA cycles (safety measure on our part) o Set up the Fluke to test 4K of memory in the "shared memory" quadrant of the 68K address space. o Check the results. I used this arrangement to test 4Kx1 DRAMs for my Z-80-based GORF machine. I have a DRAM tester for 64K and 256K chips, but it only tests single-supply parts. > We sold about a hundred or so IEEE-488 interfaces. As far as I'm concerned, 100 is a handful. My old company made more than ten times as many Unibus cards as that. I think I get one inquiry per year about our old sync products; nothing serious. Who needs to move sync data over 3780, HASP or SNA to or from a VAX these days that doesn't already have a way to do it? -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Dec 4 01:38:37 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: List spammers located, LARTs launched Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991203233837.009719b0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Ok... I don't know about the rest of you, but I've about had it up to my eyeballs with the soulless morons who keep spamming CLASSICCMP. I just sent off an E-mail to Derek Peschel asking... 1). That the list be configured to accept DIRECT (unscreened) postings ONLY from subscribers. 2). That I be permitted to volunteer to screen all non-subscriber postings before either (a), passing them on (and if they have even the slightest connection to subjects on CLASSICCMP, be assured that they would get passed on promptly), or (b), tossing them in the bit bucket. Since I seem to be the most experienced spam-fighter in the group (and I'm open for challenge on that), #2 made sense. It would allow me to trace back and LART spammers without their crap ever being seen by the list members. If you have any thoughts on this one way or another, please address them to Derek (dpeschel@u.washington.edu) with a CC to me. Thanks! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Dec 4 00:54:38 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I need your assistance. In-Reply-To: <001901bf3e09$8a470080$1b6465cc@default> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19991204005438.3057244c@earthlink.net> Hi John and all, At 10:42 PM 12/3/99 -0500, you wrote: >This scope uses a primary transformer to supply the 6.3V to most of the >tubes and has a separate winding for 6.3V for the CRT heater. Off this >transformer another winding fed to a voltage doubler and then to an >oscillator with another transformer to create a wide range of voltages. (12V >to -3000). > >Picture this... the -3000 volts is fed right into the CRT heater (which >happens to be directly coupled with the primary transformer). I have been >able to locate the problem somewhat. If I remove the -3000 volt line between >the HV rectifier tube and the CRT itself then the scope works fine! All >waveforms are proper and the power supply works great (no picture of >course). Is the -3000 volts there when not connected to the CRT heater (and are you equipped to measure that)? If so, your #2 is probably correct. > >It can be a few things... I am hoping someone here who use to work on tube >units might be able to tell me which problem below it most likely is: >#2) Bad insulation on the primary transformer secondary "crt heater" winding >which jumps over to the other winding that happens to be the main >powersupply winding (125V X 2) > -Dave From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 4 02:42:29 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same? In-Reply-To: References: <000701bf3476$9ddf36e0$0101a8c0@jay> Message-ID: >Hello, I have access to a "Midi Gold 500" Amiga Midi Interface. Will it >work on the A2000 (I know the A1000 serial port is physically different, >and may be electrically different as well). > >Thanks in advance! > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ Should, the A500 and A2000 are *very* simular machines. The chips controlling the serial ports are the same. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From peter at joules0.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 4 04:35:12 1999 From: peter at joules0.demon.co.uk (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Great Christmas Gift! In-Reply-To: <234.745607.166723@unknown> References: <234.745607.166723@unknown> Message-ID: <6ibHKFAg5OS4EwNq@joules0.demon.co.uk> In article <234.745607.166723@unknown>, grrreatgift@hotmail.com writes > [SPAM] Complaint sent to abuse@dialsprint.net and abuse@earthlink.net -- Regards Pete From chrish at kootenay.net Sat Dec 4 07:36:44 1999 From: chrish at kootenay.net (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Apple StyleWriter M8000 Message-ID: <384918EA.5671B2C6@kootenay.net> Hey all I have an Apple StyleWriter M8000 black and white inkjet printer to GIVE AWAY for the cost of shipping, if anyone is interested let me know. thanx Chris From rjzambo at attglobal.net Sat Dec 4 20:50:18 1999 From: rjzambo at attglobal.net (rjzambo@attglobal.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I need your assistance. References: <001901bf3e09$8a470080$1b6465cc@default> Message-ID: <3849D2EA.665989B4@attglobal.net> John Quick way to find out is to disconnect 6.3 winding and use an external transformer to supply 6.3 V to CRT.But be carefull 6.3 V transformer is rated for 3000V. I have a trans recovered from a 503. Willing to trade for PDP8 parts? Cheers John B wrote: > I don't like tubes. My experience with tubes is *very limited*. I have had a > few crash courses over the past few years...... > > Okay, I bought the Tek RM503 for my PDP-8/S. When I turned it on I heard > some terrible noises and found the power supply voltages were all over the > place (way off , like 10V was 500 etc..). > > This scope uses a primary transformer to supply the 6.3V to most of the > tubes and has a separate winding for 6.3V for the CRT heater. Off this > transformer another winding fed to a voltage doubler and then to an > oscillator with another transformer to create a wide range of voltages. (12V > to -3000). > > Picture this... the -3000 volts is fed right into the CRT heater (which > happens to be directly coupled with the primary transformer). I have been > able to locate the problem somewhat. If I remove the -3000 volt line between > the HV rectifier tube and the CRT itself then the scope works fine! All > waveforms are proper and the power supply works great (no picture of > course). > > It can be a few things... I am hoping someone here who use to work on tube > units might be able to tell me which problem below it most likely is: > > #1) A bad HV rectifier tube causing the HV to come back to the second > transformer which would put a few thousand volts back into the secondary > winding taps causing high voltage everywhere. > > #2) Bad insulation on the primary transformer secondary "crt heater" winding > which jumps over to the other winding that happens to be the main > powersupply winding (125V X 2) > > #3) The -3000 volt wire is closely tied to the other low voltage wires. Is > insulation breakdown possible due to a crack? > > My next step will be to take a reading on the primary transformer (first > transformer, secondary winding [doubled winding]) and see if thousands of > volts are there... That might help determine if there is an insulation > breakdown but from what I can tell when the -3000V is hooked up every > voltage goes crazy. > > I am going to bed.. Hopefully I wake up to a great answer ;-) > > john > > PDP-8 and other rare mini computers > > http://www.pdp8.com From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 4 10:08:06 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Any GRID experts out there? Message-ID: <005101bf3e71$c12c5d80$0400c0a8@winbook> This thing has got to be at least 10 years old, but, here goes . . . I was scrounging through some boxes in my basement this morning . . . and found a flat-panel display module, probably monochrome, with the label LM758CXAGNR and the HITACHI brand name emblazoned on it. It has a couple of slide pots hanging from it, each bearing the name GRID in its silkscreen. Is any of you folks familiar enough with devices of this type or familar enough with GRID to steer me onto some information about how one might use this display panel for something useful? thanx Dick From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 4 12:24:35 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991204122435.229777f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Hi, Can anyone tell me more about what this is? Joe From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 4 10:53:26 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? Message-ID: <000601bf3e78$161a8e60$0400c0a8@winbook> I remember seeing the promotions for this in conjunction with 8048 development back in the late '70's though I doubt it was exclusively for the 8048. I may have a manual or something lying about, though, now that I want it, I'll probably have a devil of a time finding the thing even though I've stumbled over it several times in the past month. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 9:44 AM Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? >Hi, > > Can anyone tell me more about what this is? > > Joe > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Sat Dec 4 11:01:44 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: uVaxen & Fixing Basic Proggies In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991203191314.009545b0@127.0.0.1> from Roger Merchberger at "Dec 3, 1999 7:13:14 pm" Message-ID: <199912041701.MAA01365@pechter.dyndns.org> > > 2) Is there a hobbyist licen[sc]e of older versions of Ultrix in case he > can't find me any OS media, or is it the consensus here of "why the #&^@^( Well the view is more of the VMS is better among Vax fanatics, but there's a $100 license from SCO for old Unix sources and that get you access to the Unix Preservation Society's archives of Berkeley Unix... or you can run the current version of NetBSD on most Microvax systems. > do you want to run that Unix crap anyway when VMS is better/more fun/etc.?" > > 3) Can *all* Vaxen run with a serial terminal (just in case this one > doesn't come with a framebuffer / compat. monitor... I have to Lear-Siegler It'll work fine. I'm going to use a serial line from a PC with a vt100 emulator (kermit is the best one for VT100) or just a VT100 from my garage on the Vaxstation. VT100 emulation's nice for the screen editor but ADM3A's will even work. Vax consoles (IMHO) should probably be LA120's if you have em. > > Thanks & Cheers, > Roger "Merch" Merchberger Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 4 09:49:18 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I need your assistance. In-Reply-To: <001901bf3e09$8a470080$1b6465cc@default> from "John B" at Dec 3, 99 10:42:08 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4756 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991204/651bf477/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 4 11:37:35 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991204122435.229777f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 4, 99 12:24:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 161 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991204/f9a036a2/attachment.ksh From mike-noel at gci.net Sat Dec 4 12:32:58 1999 From: mike-noel at gci.net (Mike Noel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Processor Technology S100 ... THANKS References: Message-ID: <38495E5A.7ADDE048@gci.net> Much appreciation to all who responded. Card is now fixed! It seems an address configuration switch was dirty. After reconfiguring for another address it worked, and after I put it back the way it was originally it still works! I'd tried a little of this, but I guess the key was knowing which switches to change... Bob Stek wrote: > > > These 16K boards use 2147's don't they? Does your diagnostic (whatever it > > Likely it uses 2114s (1kx4). > > Actually it uses 2104's > > Bob Stek > bobstek@ix.netcom.com > Saver of Lost SOLs From dogas at leading.net Sat Dec 4 12:36:19 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? Message-ID: <01bf3e86$74b4a9c0$1b00000a@devlaptop.cmsjax.com> From: Tony Duell >I believe it might me a development system for the 8008 or the 8080 >(Intallec 8i IIRC). I think so too. The Intellec 4 is featured in the back of the MCS-4 4004 manual and states that it is "ideal for prototyping MCS 4 Systems". The MCS-8 manual dosent however mention the Intellec 8. - Mike: dogas@leading.net From ndiablo at diablonet.net Sat Dec 4 13:47:33 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: uVaxen & Fixing Basic Proggies Message-ID: <19991204194733.19959.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Well, to respond to a few of those VAX-related questions as best I can... :) 1) There are lots of resources out there featuring VAX information; you might want to look at the NetBSD/vax port website (http://www.netbsd.org/Ports), the VAXarchive (http://vaxarchive.org), and Hamster's Digital Resources site, which can be found at http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/dr. 2) I don't believe there is any sort of hobbyist distribution of Ultrix, however you can run the hobbyist distribution of OpenVMS (http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist), or if you're interested in a UNIX, NetBSD is available for a number of VAXen. 3) All microVAX systems use some variety of serial terminal for a system console (although I believe it has to be VT100 compatible, so I'm not sure how useful that ADM terminal will be). VAXstation systems are the ones that use monitors as consoles, however it is possible to get them to run over a serial console as well using a few different methods depending on which model you have. Hope this is helpful :) -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Dec 4 13:04:49 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: new additions + serendipity Message-ID: <0.ee2915d1.257abfd1@aol.com> Decided to make a thrift run today and in addition to getting an IBM L40SX last week, got this stuff today: complete amstrad pc6400hd even got the owners manual. good shape too C128 in box plus 1024 monitor and the 1530 tape unit in box as well as a 1571 drive in box and about 400 disks of software as well as all cables. an atari 400 box filled with about 350 never used 5.25 floppies. total price not including the L40 was $7. whilst rooting around in the junk for sale, i met a guy who was a (presumably) IBM CE back in the old days and spoke of servicing plugboards and paper tape and such. he also worked on IBM selectrics. from what he was saying, he has some old Freiden calculators or some sort. he didnt know much of current pc stuff, but told some fascinating stories of the old technology in the short time we spoke. DB Young coming in 2000: www.nothingtodo.org ! --> this message printed on recycled disk space view the computers of yesteryear at http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm (now accepting donations!) From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Dec 4 13:51:52 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: uVaxen & Fixing Basic Proggies Message-ID: <199912041951.OAA02022@world.std.com> <1) There are lots of resources out there featuring VAX information; you mig Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991204152026.00a19880@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that Allison J Parent may have mentioned these words: ><1) There are lots of resources out there featuring VAX information; you mig ><(http://vaxarchive.org), and Hamster's Digital Resources site, which can be > >Yes many of them are excellent! Thanks - I have lots of stuff to read now in my already overloaded weekend... ;-) I'll be building outbuildings most of tomorrow, so when I'm ready for a break, I'll be putting that 12ppm laser printer I now own to good use... ;^> ><2) I don't believe there is any sort of hobbyist distribution of Ultrix, ho > >Ultrix was never released and I suspect never will. My guess is it has a >lot of the ATT/BSD code that was encumbered. Well, I guess if I wanna run Ultrix, I had better hope there's media with the box... This box may be semi-production, and I don't want to rely on anything that I can't fix. So if Ultrix doesn't happen, VMS will. ><3) All microVAX systems use some variety of serial terminal for a system co ><(although I believe it has to be VT100 compatible, so I'm not sure how usef > >For those that don't have a video console the terminal only has to be >serial 9600/8/n/1 and supports Xon/Xoff meaning most anything works though >some aren't pretty. The terminal can be hard copy such as the LA100KSR. So I could go hell-bent with my Tandy 200 if necessary... ;-) I "popped the lid" on one of my ADM's - and it's more than just a terminal, if you know what to do with it. It's 6800 based with IIRC a Moto 6845 character generator, a little RAM & 2 or 3 ROMS... All I'd need is the source, and a x-assembler for a CoCo (6809-based), hack in some more RAM and I can turn one of them into whatever I darned well please... ;-) (The other I'll keep stock, but a guy's gotta *play*, ya know?) Thanks again, everybody... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Sat Dec 4 14:42:14 1999 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Need Atari 130XE technical docs Message-ID: Please reply directly to . Hello. I'm trying to fix an Atari 130XE that has a memory problem. It automatically boots into the self test and shows bad RAM after block 17 (ie. blocks 1-17 are indicated to be good by the self test). Is there a web site somewhere that has a repair FAQ available for the Atari XE series? Please reply directly to if you can help. Thanks! Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF East? VCF Europe!? YOU BETCHA!! Stay tuned for more information or contact me to find out how you can participate http://www.vintage.org From cfandt at netsync.net Sat Dec 4 16:21:40 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I need your assistance. In-Reply-To: <001901bf3e09$8a470080$1b6465cc@default> Message-ID: <4.1.19991204131925.00adc410@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 10:42 PM 12/3/99 -0500, John B said something like: >I don't like tubes. My experience with tubes is *very limited*. I have had a >few crash courses over the past few years...... Well John B., I *like* tubes :-) As you may have noticed I'm an electronic historian and old radio collector. Tubes pervade my very being it seems. I grew up learning about and fiddling with tube gear :-) Love it! Wish I could afford getting (or even *finding* an old IBM tube machine like a 704 or such.) A few others here enjoy the same background. Anyway, I went up to my library and dug out my Tektronix type 503 manual. The RM503 is simply a repackaged 503 which fits into a 19" rack. Below, I'll speak as if you've had very little exposure to tube circuits, 'scopes of this vintage, etc. as I really don't know your old technology background as of yet. At least others here who are not tube savvy and will someday have to fiddle with an old scope may get something out of this anyway. >Okay, I bought the Tek RM503 for my PDP-8/S. When I turned it on I heard >some terrible noises and found the power supply voltages were all over the >place (way off , like 10V was 500 etc..). Not good of course. Limit the on-time while testing please. > >This scope uses a primary transformer to supply the 6.3V to most of the >tubes and has a separate winding for 6.3V for the CRT heater. Off this >transformer another winding fed to a voltage doubler and then to an >oscillator with another transformer to create a wide range of voltages. (12V >to -3000). I sense you have a manual too as you give a good basic layout of the power supply and indicate expected voltages. > >Picture this... the -3000 volts is fed right into the CRT heater (which >happens to be directly coupled with the primary transformer). I have been >able to locate the problem somewhat. If I remove the -3000 volt line between >the HV rectifier tube and the CRT itself then the scope works fine! All >waveforms are proper and the power supply works great (no picture of >course). So, by removing the -3KV line, things settle down. First thing in mind is that either of the two pots in the voltage divider resistor string may be arcing over to ground. They are the FOCUS and INTENSITY controls. Second thing and at least this is easy to check, does the CRT heater light up? With the -3KV left disconnected from the CRT do you measure 6.3 to 6.5 volts AC across the heater connections (pins 1 and 14)? Third thing, and most undesireable, is the CRT envelope got broken and the tube went to air. This will *definitelly* cause arcing inside the CRT's electron gun. You know the shiny metallic spot you often see inside vacuum tubes? That's the gettering which basically had taken up most of the leftover oxygen after the manufacturer had drawn a vacuum on the tube and tipped it off. Never saw a 503 tube so can't say where to find it but it usually would be on the inner surface of the neck somewhere maybe 5 or 10 CM in from the base. If you see a milky white spot on the inner surface of the envelope in that region then the tube's gone to air :-( You mention that instead of 10 volts you measured 500. Thank Heaven this is not a solid state scope!!! Smoke City!! > >It can be a few things... I am hoping someone here who use to work on tube >units might be able to tell me which problem below it most likely is: > >#1) A bad HV rectifier tube causing the HV to come back to the second >transformer which would put a few thousand volts back into the secondary >winding taps causing high voltage everywhere. A shorted 5642 HV rectifier tube would present a high frequency AC voltage of some level on the -3KV line. Maybe 5-7 KVAC peak to peak. The freq would be 25KHz as generated by the 6DQ6A oscillator tube. Hard to see the little filament in the 5642 to verify whether its glowing and you really cannot do any measurements with a standard voltmeter on this part of the circuit (your meter would not tolerate the high voltage unless you use one designed for, say, 5KV or more.) I'll assume you may not have such a meter and cannot measure even the -3KVDC. Check to see if the tube envelope is broken. This tube has gettering also and see if it's milky. The filament could fail and flop down onto the plate thus making a short circuit. Been there, done that. I haven't hunted for 5642's for a long time and they may be hard to find now. But I know one of the ham radio community folks could come thru if they have a junker Tek 'scope on hand for parts. Let me know. > >#2) Bad insulation on the primary transformer secondary "crt heater" winding >which jumps over to the other winding that happens to be the main >powersupply winding (125V X 2) Turn off all room lights this evening, close shades if the city lights are bright too. Turn on unit and look for faint arcing around the circuit. Keep your hands in your pockets! ;-) You may smell ozone from the arcing. The FOCUS and INTENSITY pots are in the resistor divider circuit and are mounted on the front panel. Listen carefully to help zero-in on the noise. Keep your earlobe in your pocket too! ;-) {ZZZapp!} > >#3) The -3000 volt wire is closely tied to the other low voltage wires. Is >insulation breakdown possible due to a crack? Yes. Do the lights out trick to verify . . . > >My next step will be to take a reading on the primary transformer (first >transformer, secondary winding [doubled winding]) and see if thousands of >volts are there... That might help determine if there is an insulation >breakdown but from what I can tell when the -3000V is hooked up every >voltage goes crazy. > >I am going to bed.. Hopefully I wake up to a great answer ;-) Hope this helps John. Sorry to be late with this but family stuff and my schoolwork got in the way all day. Let me know if you need other info/help. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From a2k at one.net Sat Dec 4 16:29:18 1999 From: a2k at one.net (LordTyran) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991201100359.009bd020@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: I have a schematic for a fone line emulator somehwere.. you can press a button to make it ring and a few other things.. a bit complex and the parts are estimated at around $100. However, if you can force the linux box to answer and the micro to go into term mode, you can use 2 9V batteries in series on one side of a phone wire going between the modems. Kevin On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > First, Thanks to all who have helped so far... > > > I have some old modems (TRS-80, acoustic and etc.) which I would like to > use (flashing LEDs are cool) so, I want to build a little telco emulator to > interface with the modems in one of my Linux boxes. > > I figure an LM556 for the dial tone... A tone decoder for dialing... Not > sure an easy way to decode pulse dialing. > > As for ring... I am thinking using two charged capacitors and switching > them. That's the first method I came up with to limit the current cheaply. > > Any suggestions? I'd like to do this for less that $25.00. > ---------------------------------------- > Tired of Micro$oft??? > > Move up to a REAL OS... > ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # > #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## > ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### > ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### > ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### > # ###### > ("LINUX" for those of you > without fixed-width fonts) > ---------------------------------------- > Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com > > Slackware Mailing List: > http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 4 17:16:34 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... Message-ID: <002f01bf3ead$9bac7c20$0400c0a8@winbook> It would be interesting to know, precisely, what it is you intend to do. There's nothing difficult about any of the telco stuff, but unless you have a clear and well defined, as well as well-specified, goal in mind, you'll never get there. Now, if you just want to blink some LED's I'm sure you can do that. If you want to interrupt your LINUX box each time the phone rings, you can do that in a number of ways. If you want to make a phone ring, that's easy too. I've looked through a lot of discussion about this subject, but still have no idea in the world what exactly, it is you'd like to accomplish. Have you? Dick -----Original Message----- From: LordTyran To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 3:34 PM Subject: Re: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... >I have a schematic for a fone line emulator somehwere.. you can press a >button to make it ring and a few other things.. a bit complex and the >parts are estimated at around $100. > >However, if you can force the linux box to answer and the micro to go into >term mode, you can use 2 9V batteries in series on one side of a phone >wire going between the modems. > >Kevin > >On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: > >> First, Thanks to all who have helped so far... >> >> >> I have some old modems (TRS-80, acoustic and etc.) which I would like to >> use (flashing LEDs are cool) so, I want to build a little telco emulator to >> interface with the modems in one of my Linux boxes. >> >> I figure an LM556 for the dial tone... A tone decoder for dialing... Not >> sure an easy way to decode pulse dialing. >> >> As for ring... I am thinking using two charged capacitors and switching >> them. That's the first method I came up with to limit the current cheaply. >> >> Any suggestions? I'd like to do this for less that $25.00. >> ---------------------------------------- >> Tired of Micro$oft??? >> >> Move up to a REAL OS... >> ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # >> #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## >> ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### >> ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### >> ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### >> # ###### >> ("LINUX" for those of you >> without fixed-width fonts) >> ---------------------------------------- >> Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com >> >> Slackware Mailing List: >> http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html >> > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 4 17:07:10 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I need your assistance. In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991204131925.00adc410@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Dec 4, 99 05:21:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3869 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991204/61500c4b/attachment.ksh From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 4 16:31:29 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! Message-ID: <001401bf3ea7$5a6e45a0$7c72e2d1@default> ITS WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Special thanks to Tony's idea of hooking up an isolation transformer (6.3V but rated to 3000V).. Okay, I did some of Christians tests and I found that the Transformer indeed was arching into the main supply. (I won two of these scopes on EBay). Here is the funny part.. I rarely go into surplus stores but tonight I made an exception. I told the guy at the counter what my problem was and he had a box full of 6.3Volt isolation transformers rated to 3000KV HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH.. I could not believe it. I bought a few and tried one out. The scope now has a perfect trace. On XY the dot is crisp and very stable. I have to align the scope.. but will do so after I get all brand new tubes in it. Second funny part, As I was leaving the store I went over to his lightbulb section (get the hint yet).. Yes, brand new bulbs [equivs] for my 8/S and my 8-I still in the package! What a day... I can't wait to get spacewars up and running. Thanks for the info Chris and Tony, I have one more scope to restore and have placed orders for another 8 of them... so I have some serious tube work over the next couple of weeks. (comments below) -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 5:34 PM Subject: Re: Tube experts! - I need your assistance. >Upon the date 10:42 PM 12/3/99 -0500, John B said something like: >>I don't like tubes. My experience with tubes is *very limited*. I have had a >>few crash courses over the past few years...... > >Well John B., I *like* tubes :-) As you may have noticed I'm an electronic >historian and old radio collector. Tubes pervade my very being it seems. I >grew up learning about and fiddling with tube gear :-) Love it! Wish I >could afford getting (or even *finding* an old IBM tube machine like a 704 >or such.) A few others here enjoy the same background. Anyway, I went up to >my library and dug out my Tektronix type 503 manual. The RM503 is simply a >repackaged 503 which fits into a 19" rack. > The only reason I don't like tubes is because they are very flakey in old mini computers.. From what I have heard from people who use to support them every power cycles was a nightmare. I am trying to stick to minis that can run off of 110/200Volt. I have a lot of design experience in transistors and IC/analog stuff... little to no tube knowledge. >Below, I'll speak as if you've had very little exposure to tube circuits, >'scopes of this vintage, etc. as I really don't know your old technology >background as of yet. At least others here who are not tube savvy and will >someday have to fiddle with an old scope may get something out of this anyway. > Very limited.. but I have to use these old tube scopes as I am putting the original tek scopes back into the minis. >>Okay, I bought the Tek RM503 for my PDP-8/S. When I turned it on I heard >>some terrible noises and found the power supply voltages were all over the >>place (way off , like 10V was 500 etc..). > >Not good of course. Limit the on-time while testing please. > >> I did.. to about 30 seconds... Got lucky though.. the 4 transistors did not die. >>This scope uses a primary transformer to supply the 6.3V to most of the >>tubes and has a separate winding for 6.3V for the CRT heater. Off this >>transformer another winding fed to a voltage doubler and then to an >>oscillator with another transformer to create a wide range of voltages. (12V >>to -3000). > >I sense you have a manual too as you give a good basic layout of the power >supply and indicate expected voltages. > Yes, I got it with the scopes.. I do have to buy a bunch of RM560s. Do youhave any manuals for those? >> >>Picture this... the -3000 volts is fed right into the CRT heater (which >>happens to be directly coupled with the primary transformer). I have been >>able to locate the problem somewhat. If I remove the -3000 volt line between >>the HV rectifier tube and the CRT itself then the scope works fine! All >>waveforms are proper and the power supply works great (no picture of >>course). > >So, by removing the -3KV line, things settle down. > Yes >First thing in mind is that either of the two pots in the voltage divider >resistor string may be arcing over to ground. They are the FOCUS and >INTENSITY controls. > The focus *kind* of worked... nothing on intensity. (they both work now) >Second thing and at least this is easy to check, does the CRT heater light >up? With the -3KV left disconnected from the CRT do you measure 6.3 to 6.5 >volts AC across the heater connections (pins 1 and 14)? > Yes >Third thing, and most undesireable, is the CRT envelope got broken and the >tube went to air. This will *definitelly* cause arcing inside the CRT's >electron gun. You know the shiny metallic spot you often see inside vacuum >tubes? That's the gettering which basically had taken up most of the >leftover oxygen after the manufacturer had drawn a vacuum on the tube and >tipped it off. Never saw a 503 tube so can't say where to find it but it >usually would be on the inner surface of the neck somewhere maybe 5 or 10 >CM in from the base. If you see a milky white spot on the inner surface of >the envelope in that region then the tube's gone to air :-( > Thanks.. I wil check out the other scope I have to work on next. >You mention that instead of 10 volts you measured 500. Thank Heaven this is >not a solid state scope!!! Smoke City!! > I know.. What scares the hell out of me is I am hooking this thing up to my 8/S.. I am going to put some highvoltage diodes between the 8/S,8I and the scope to make sure if the scope goes bananas I don't blow a few hundred transistors in the minis. >> >>It can be a few things... I am hoping someone here who use to work on tube >>units might be able to tell me which problem below it most likely is: >> >>#1) A bad HV rectifier tube causing the HV to come back to the second >>transformer which would put a few thousand volts back into the secondary >>winding taps causing high voltage everywhere. > >A shorted 5642 HV rectifier tube would present a high frequency AC voltage >of some level on the -3KV line. Maybe 5-7 KVAC peak to peak. The freq would >be 25KHz as generated by the 6DQ6A oscillator tube. Hard to see the little >filament in the 5642 to verify whether its glowing and you really cannot do >any measurements with a standard voltmeter on this part of the circuit The 5642 was glowing and arching inside (looked really bad).. It is happy now. >(your meter would not tolerate the high voltage unless you use one designed >for, say, 5KV or more.) I'll assume you may not have such a meter and >cannot measure even the -3KVDC. Check to see if the tube envelope is I do. I worked in a TV repair shop in my early teens for weekend money.. I picked up the high voltage meter when the business went south. >broken. This tube has gettering also and see if it's milky. The filament >could fail and flop down onto the plate thus making a short circuit. Been >there, done that. I haven't hunted for 5642's for a long time and they may >be hard to find now. But I know one of the ham radio community folks could >come thru if they have a junker Tek 'scope on hand for parts. Let me know. > I found a canadian retailer that has them in stock: http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/tekparts.html also, http://www.vacuumtubes.com/ has all the tubes in stock (all new in the box).. It is costing me over $300 for three sets of the tubes though :-( 6DJ8 Amperex tubes are over $30 each :-( >> >>#2) Bad insulation on the primary transformer secondary "crt heater" winding >>which jumps over to the other winding that happens to be the main >>powersupply winding (125V X 2) > >Turn off all room lights this evening, close shades if the city lights are >bright too. Turn on unit and look for faint arcing around the circuit. Keep >your hands in your pockets! ;-) You may smell ozone from the arcing. The >FOCUS and INTENSITY pots are in the resistor divider circuit and are >mounted on the front panel. Listen carefully to help zero-in on the noise. >Keep your earlobe in your pocket too! ;-) {ZZZapp!} > >> >>#3) The -3000 volt wire is closely tied to the other low voltage wires. Is >>insulation breakdown possible due to a crack? > >Yes. Do the lights out trick to verify . . . > >> >>My next step will be to take a reading on the primary transformer (first >>transformer, secondary winding [doubled winding]) and see if thousands of >>volts are there... That might help determine if there is an insulation >>breakdown but from what I can tell when the -3000V is hooked up every >>voltage goes crazy. >> >>I am going to bed.. Hopefully I wake up to a great answer ;-) > >Hope this helps John. Sorry to be late with this but family stuff and my >schoolwork got in the way all day. > Thanks for the info. It is much appreciated. I have a lot of these scopes to quickly restore.... john http://www.pdp8.com/ >Let me know if you need other info/help. Regards, Chris >-- -- >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ > From vaxman at uswest.net Sat Dec 4 18:03:22 1999 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: uVaxen & Fixing Basic Proggies In-Reply-To: <199912041951.OAA02022@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > <2) I don't believe there is any sort of hobbyist distribution of Ultrix, ho > > Ultrix was never released and I suspect never will. My guess is it has a > lot of the ATT/BSD code that was encumbered. > Since a license for ATT source code is now available from SCO unix for $100, perhaps DEC can be convinced to release Ultrix as well. Unfortunately, I have no idea how one would go about it... > > Allison > From rachael_ at gmx.net Sat Dec 4 09:21:00 1999 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Charles On 04-Dec-99, you wrote: > > Hello, I have access to a "Midi Gold 500" Amiga Midi Interface. Will it > work on the A2000 (I know the A1000 serial port is physically different, > and may be electrically different as well). The Amiga 500 and 2000 shares the same design of the seriel and parallel ports so your midi interface will run nicely on the a2000. Regards Jacob Dahl Pind -- From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 4 18:20:46 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Yipee, IT IS ALIVE!!! Message-ID: IT IS ALIVE!!!! I confess, I cheated, BUT MY PDP-8/M LIVES!!!! AND it has 8K of Core! On the down side I now have two 4K core stacks that need repaired. It's so cool, I now have it running the initial operating checks on pg. 2-7 of the Processor Maintenance Manual. Blinken lights are so cool! IT IS ALIVE!!!! Now excuse me while I go find some rope to tie myself to my chair so I'll quit bouncing! IT IS ALIVE!!!! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 4 18:42:20 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: <001401bf3ea7$5a6e45a0$7c72e2d1@default> from "John B" at Dec 4, 99 05:31:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3637 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991205/def8bb3b/attachment.ksh From Innfogra at aol.com Sat Dec 4 19:03:38 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Sol 20, Morrow Micro Decision Quantum 2080 & more Message-ID: <0.1d5c8809.257b13ea@aol.com> Dear list members: I know you are going to hate me for this but circumstances force me to maximize my income. I have listed my last Processor Technologies Saul 20 on ebay. I know many of you were interested. I have also listed a Morrow Micro Decision and a Quantum 2080 8 inch MFM hard drive that can be used with many older systems. My last Quantum sold for $20. Not everything goes for big bucks. My ebay name is innfosale. Please note the two Ns in the name. This URL should bring up my list: http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&user id=innfosale&include=0&since=-1&sort=2&rows=25 For those that are interested, you might bookmark the list. I will be selling more classic computers, S100 and DEC cards, drives, HP, in the future. If you notice I rarely use reserve bids, preferring to let the market set the price. I am good at finding equipment. Many thanks to all for the stories and help on the list. I love reading it even when I've been gone two weeks and come back to 1000 messages. Paxton From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 4 21:12:52 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: HP 9100 Fault was: Re: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: References: <001401bf3ea7$5a6e45a0$7c72e2d1@default> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991204211252.50976598@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 12:42 AM 12/5/99 +0000, Tony wrote: >Reminds me of what can happen when the CRT in an HP9100 develops an >internal short. It blows transistors all over one of the deflection >boards, and then applies about 220V to the outputs from the processor >chassis. This generally wipes out a number of diodes on the gating board, >and if you're unlucky kills some transistors on a flip-flop board, some >transistors on the ROM address decoder, etc. Hmmm. That sounds like BAD news! Is there any way to prevent a tube short from frying everything around it? Joe From jfoust at threedee.com Sat Dec 4 19:58:27 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: Emulation Good Guys / Bad Guys In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19991203085040.0102cdb0@pc> <0.b124821d.25788195@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991204195827.0420d3f0@pc> At 01:28 PM 12/3/99 -0800, Mike Ford wrote: >>I see where this is going, though - it's similar to a shrink-wrap >>license. When I buy a Nintendo cart, am I in effect signing a >>contract that says I won't run it on an emulator? > >How is this different from buying a CD and making a cassette for your >walkman from it? This is familiar ground the courts have ruled in favor of >the consumers on. Well, I agree. It would be like buying a Sony music CD that had a shrink wrap license restricting it from being played on anything but Sony equipment,and certainly not on an MP3 player. Sounds like Divx. I haven't paid any attention to the fine print on a Playstation CD, does it actually contain language that restricts its use? >The wet dream of software companies is "pay per use", ie you actually don't >get ANYTHING tangible for your money just permission for a specific use. >Linux looks better and better every day. Microsoft has come to close to this in the past two years. I think 2000 will be the year they actually start charging by subscription (time-period licenses) and I can easily see the industry migrating to a license scheme that requires periodic communication with the Internet to fetch new keys. - John From thompson at mail.athenet.net Sat Dec 4 20:24:11 1999 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: uVaxen & Fixing Basic Proggies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Given DEC's attitude and price for the Ultrix y2k update a hobbyist version seems unlikely. On the other side, I was able to download the AIX 4.1.5 Y2k update for free from IBM, and that is a live operating system. Now only my DECsystem 5400 (ultrix) remains Y2k unready. Paul On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Clint Wolff (VAX collector) wrote: > On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > > > <2) I don't believe there is any sort of hobbyist distribution of Ultrix, ho > > > > Ultrix was never released and I suspect never will. My guess is it has a > > lot of the ATT/BSD code that was encumbered. > > > > Since a license for ATT source code is now available from SCO unix for > $100, perhaps DEC can be convinced to release Ultrix as well. > Unfortunately, I have no idea how one would go about it... > > > > > Allison > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 4 19:42:09 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: HP 9100 Fault was: Re: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991204211252.50976598@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 4, 99 09:12:52 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2141 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991205/5b4c501c/attachment.ksh From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Dec 4 22:26:49 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19991204211252.50976598@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991204232649.009a3e40@127.0.0.1> Check out this ebay auction under Computers:Mainframe... http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=210172793 What an absolute, unadulterated jerk. Can you list negative feedback for a person even if you had no dealings with them??? Growling mad, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Dec 4 23:08:39 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991204232649.009a3e40@127.0.0.1> References: <3.0.1.16.19991204211252.50976598@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991204210839.00955100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 23:26 04-12-1999 -0500, you wrote: >Check out this ebay auction under Computers:Mainframe... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=210172793 > >What an absolute, unadulterated jerk. > >Can you list negative feedback for a person even if you had no dealings >with them??? Sure, but why bother? The guy's an absolute moron, as is clearly evidenced by his poor spelling. The fact that he's posting from an AOL address, and that he has no feedback listed whatsoever, won't help either. He's doing a great job of shooting himself in the foot, and he's not going to get any bids with an entry like he's got. Even if he does, anyone dumb enough to make said bid deserves what they get. Save the LARTs for someone really deserving. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 4 23:12:36 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ Message-ID: <001101bf3edf$623f2dc0$0400c0a8@winbook> Why get all upset over such an inane offering. The guy is obviously an idiot and so is anyone who'd pay for such a piece of junk. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 9:31 PM Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ >Check out this ebay auction under Computers:Mainframe... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=210172793 > >What an absolute, unadulterated jerk. > >Can you list negative feedback for a person even if you had no dealings >with them??? > >Growling mad, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > >If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead >disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 4 23:46:35 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:06 2005 Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991204232649.009a3e40@127.0.0.1> References: <3.0.1.16.19991204211252.50976598@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: >Check out this ebay auction under Computers:Mainframe... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=210172793 > >What an absolute, unadulterated jerk. > >Can you list negative feedback for a person even if you had no dealings >with them??? > >Growling mad, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger Don't get mad, laugh. That's hilarious! Thanks, I needed a good laugh! Think about it, he's listing a PC as a Mainframe, and wants a starting bid of $1500 for what is either a 486 or one of the first Pentiums. While we're laughing, here is another good joke I found today, at least the starting bid is reasonable. But his description is a laugh! "HUGE Digital PDP11 memory board. Core era. ER" http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=213201484 Did you know that in '78 chip memory was rarer than core? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mrdos at swbell.net Sun Dec 5 00:04:45 1999 From: mrdos at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. Message-ID: <001801bf3ee6$a23a6780$322aa497@compaq> I actually thought of that once, but thought I was about the only one who would take it seriously. It's really not a bad idea, and I'm sure our fellow collectors would go for it. We really need an organization to preserve old computers. I go to scrap yards and see classic machines ripped apart all the time. Computers are a big part of everyone's lives now, and just like anything else that changes our society that much, (the printing press, for example) they need to protected. I hoped someone else would have the same idea I did. I really think it is a great idea, worth considering, at the least. >Well, maybe we should start a National Computer Preservation Historical >Society, and then once we have a couple hundred members (should take all >of 1 hour...) then we start sending letters to our representatives asking >them to write a bill similar to whatever empowers the people that preserve >historical buildings and landmarks. > >Of course, real influence comes with a historical society that has been in >existance for many years, but of course you have to start sometime ;) > >-Lawrence LeMay From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Dec 5 02:27:33 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Adopt a scrapper and paper tape punches. Message-ID: <0.47af4ac1.257b7bf5@aol.com> In a message dated 12/4/1999 10:05:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, mrdos@swbell.net writes: > would take it seriously. It's really not a bad idea, and I'm sure our fellow > collectors would go for it. We really need an organization to preserve old > computers. I go to scrap yards and see classic machines ripped apart all the > ti While I like the idea of an organization to preserve old computers I suspect there are already several. This list actually works well for rescues. The biggest problem is that the scrappers are rarely computer literate. If they are they are already selling on ebay and the Internet. Most scrappers are metals oriented. Even if they are recyclers the bottom line is the value of the metals. Volume is the problem, you must scrap or get buried in it. The best answer is to make friends with a scrapper. Anyone who will pay twice the scrap value consistently will be a welcome customer. In the long run you may get systems set aside for you to look at. Ask for particular brands or items but don't become a pest. They need to know what you are looking for. Check on a regular basis. Don't ask them to call you unless you are willing to offer significant money. They are busy and you are not a major part of their business. I bet there are enough people on the list to cover the major scrappers in each city. If each person adopted one we could flood this list with equipment. And probably dump enough on ebay to depress prices. I am adopting one here in Portland. And that brings up paper tape punches. He has a REMEX paper tape punch and reader set. It is shrink wrapped on a pallet and I have not had a chance to look at it yet. He wants $250 but may be open to offers. He sells a lot of stuff to Western Numerical Controls. They are old and extremely heavy, I would say late 70s but that is a guess. If anyone is interested please email me off the list. Paxton From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sun Dec 5 07:00:28 1999 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: FS: Russian Computers Message-ID: <01c601bf3f20$b5759ab0$55f438cb@SLIPSTICK> Hi everyone As some on the list may know, I'm mad-keen on Russian calculating devices. I've pretty much concentrated on calculators (please see my award-winning site listed in my .sig), but my many agents occasionally offer computers, too. Typically I don't buy (computers are not my main line of interest) - but in this case I'm scouting around for a buyer. The reason: read on. One of the rarest Russian calculators is the MK-47. It's a magnetic card reading machine - so the rumour goes. None have been seen in captivity. Some 6 months back, one of my agents (from whom I've previously purchased several rare machines) told me that he had an MK-47 for me. I was quite excited. More correctly, his grandmother had found one, and she was to bring it to him the next day. So, I waited for news. And waited. And waited. About a month later, a short email from my agent (Alex) tells me that he has been in hospital, and will be there for the next few weeks. And furthermore, he hasn't seen the calculator yet because his grandmother is ill and in (another) hospital, too. Of course I told him to forget about the machine for now, and get well ASAP. Around this time my personal life was thrown into turmoil when my (5yo) daughter became gravely ill and spent several days in hospital (complications of chicken pox, and drinking skin lotion, for the curious). So, I wasn't particularly thinking about calculators, either. Anyway, a few weeks pass, and I get news from Alex's father (Alex is still in hospital) that Alex's grandmother's house has burned to the ground. You can guess where the calculator was. Still, this is about a house, and that's tragic. A calculator is just an old machine. At this stage, I was beginning to think the machine was jinxed anyway. Alex contacted me later (through his father) to tell me that the fire which burned down his grandmoter's house STARTED in the house of the man who gave her the MK-47 calculator in the first place. Spooky. A few days later, Alex's MOTHER contacted me with the sad news that Alex's grandmother had died, and that Alex's father had had a heart attack when he found out. So, Alex is in hospital, Alex's father is in hospital, and Alex's grandmother has died. Here we are, a few weeks after that. Today Alex told me he is out of hospital. His father is still in hospital, but in less-serious condition. And Alex is on the prowl again (for calculators and computers). As you might understand (if you've stuck with me so far), things have been incredibly stressful for his family - and more to the point - incredibly expensive. Alex needs some extra funds to pay for the medical costs, and here's where I come in. As I said, I've done trades with Alex before, and found him not only reliable, friendly and honest - but incredibly good at finding rare and unusual things. Right now, however, Alex has a few vintage soviet home computers for sale. I've told him about you guys [collectors], and he's asked me to contact you on his behalf. Could anybody interested in exploring the purchase of soviet computers from Alex please contact me by direct email (adavie@mad.scientist.com). I have some pictures and details of machines that he has - and will be happy to act as an intermediary - or put you directly in contact with Alex. I have done many, many transactions to Russia, so can offer advice and suggestions regarding transfer of money and computers. OK, that's about all I have to write. This is probably the best opportunity many on the list will get to obtain some interesting machines. And remember, Alex is a champion at finding unusual/rare stuff. Cheers A -- Andrew Davie adavie@mad.scientist.com // adavie@comcen.com.au // adavie@bde.com.au Museum of Soviet Calculators http://members.xoom.com/adavie/soviet.html Slide Rule Trading Post http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/ From Balloon711 at aol.com Sun Dec 5 07:16:12 1999 From: Balloon711 at aol.com (Balloon711@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Rainbow Message-ID: <0.7845615a.257bbf9c@aol.com> I have a dec rainbow system and a similar looking word processor machine and some software taking up space. Keyboard, monitor, LA 50 printer, etc. Located in New Hampshire. Please reply privately if interested. I will be off the mail list. balloon711@aol.com From enrico.badella at softstar.it Sun Dec 5 07:39:16 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ References: <3.0.1.16.19991204211252.50976598@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.32.19991204232649.009a3e40@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <384A6B04.F5EC5C6D@softstar.it> Roger Merchberger wrote: > > Check out this ebay auction under Computers:Mainframe... > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=210172793 > > What an absolute, unadulterated jerk. Mainframe? Seems I did a good thing when I stoped looking at eBay. I wonder what this guy would call my 4381? It has been named Samantha and tomorrow morning we are going to truck her to her new home. Cann't wait 'till tomorrow, just like a kid. Zane, do you have some rope to spare? e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From enrico.badella at softstar.it Sun Dec 5 07:51:00 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Adding 4116 to memory board was This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ References: <3.0.1.16.19991204211252.50976598@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <384A6DC4.EE067436@softstar.it> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > "HUGE Digital PDP11 memory board. Core era. ER" > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=213201484 > > Did you know that in '78 chip memory was rarer than core? Gosh no? Should I keep all my new and unsed 4116 in a safe? Regarding 4116 RAMS, I have a couple of M7891 64KW boards and lots of 4116 RAMS. I would like to try bring it to 128KW by soldering in the missing chips. At the moment I have added sockets for all this missing chips including the 74LS240. The only missing things are the resistor packs I don't have any info, the label on the package is simply 13-15679-0 037. Can anybody tell me what I can use to replace them. I would also need to know the 2 DIP switch configuration. Anybody have the docs of this memory board? TIA e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From allanph at email.msn.com Sun Dec 5 11:07:10 1999 From: allanph at email.msn.com (allanph) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: compag Message-ID: <000501bf3f43$301e15e0$0cbb163f@powerspecpc> I have a compaq 386/20 . model-2670 portable. I need info and drivers for plasma screen. THANKS-allanph@msn.com From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 5 08:38:56 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Adopt a scrapper and paper tape punches. Message-ID: <001601bf3f2e$760d6ca0$fa3e65cc@default> -----Original Message----- From: Innfogra@aol.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 3:28 AM Subject: Adopt a scrapper and paper tape punches. >In a message dated 12/4/1999 10:05:36 PM Pacific Standard Time, >mrdos@swbell.net writes: > >> would take it seriously. It's really not a bad idea, and I'm sure our fellow >> collectors would go for it. We really need an organization to preserve old >> computers. I go to scrap yards and see classic machines ripped apart all >the >> ti >While I like the idea of an organization to preserve old computers I suspect >there are already several. This list actually works well for rescues. > >The biggest problem is that the scrappers are rarely computer literate. If >they are they are already selling on ebay and the Internet. Most scrappers Some might have kept core memory and stuff like that but for the most part these guys don't have time to play on EBay.. The volume is so high they can't afford the time. Gold content (and other metals) are high so all they have to do is keep stripping the stuff down. >are metals oriented. Even if they are recyclers the bottom line is the value >of the metals. Volume is the problem, you must scrap or get buried in it. > >The best answer is to make friends with a scrapper. Anyone who will pay twice >the scrap value consistently will be a welcome customer. In the long run you Scrap value to a gold reclaimer is *alot*more than you think. The place I visited routinely offers $8-10K for IBM 30 series. (water cooled CPU)... As a lot of the older minis have less gold I can get them for a lor less. If an IBM 360 comes up be prepared that there is a lot of gold in that machine and it will cost a lot of money. Don't forget, they won't accept "scrap price", they will want "raw materials" price... and for some large super computers/large mainframes that can be quite expensive. >may get systems set aside for you to look at. Ask for particular brands or >items but don't become a pest. They need to know what you are looking for. They don't care. The don't understand the stuff. They just know IBM1130 = pay $4K as scrap, get $7 in raw materials back. >Check on a regular basis. Don't ask them to call you unless you are willing >to offer significant money. They are busy and you are not a major part of >their business. > They won't call. (maybe smaller ones might). The guy I just visited was soo busy I had to wait in line to ask simple questions. >I bet there are enough people on the list to cover the major scrappers in >each city. If each person adopted one we could flood this list with >equipment. And probably dump enough on ebay to depress prices. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com > >I am adopting one here in Portland. And that brings up paper tape punches. He >has a REMEX paper tape punch and reader set. It is shrink wrapped on a pallet >and I have not had a chance to look at it yet. He wants $250 but may be open >to offers. He sells a lot of stuff to Western Numerical Controls. They are >old and extremely heavy, I would say late 70s but that is a guess. If anyone >is interested please email me off the list. > >Paxton > > From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 5 08:40:28 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ Message-ID: <002301bf3f2e$ac866e80$fa3e65cc@default> -----Original Message----- From: Roger Merchberger To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 11:27 PM Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ >Check out this ebay auction under Computers:Mainframe... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=210172793 > >What an absolute, unadulterated jerk. > >Can you list negative feedback for a person even if you had no dealings >with them??? > Only if you are the high bidder on one of his items.. Otherwise it has to be neutral. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com >Growling mad, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > >If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead >disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 5 08:40:39 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Adding 4116 to memory board was This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ In-Reply-To: <384A6DC4.EE067436@softstar.it> from "Enrico Badella" at Dec 5, 99 02:51:00 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 794 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991205/c043814e/attachment.ksh From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 5 09:26:54 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! Message-ID: <003b01bf3f35$2934b580$fa3e65cc@default> PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, December 04, 1999 7:57 PM Subject: Re: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! >> >> ITS WORKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >Excellent....!! > >> Special thanks to Tony's idea of hooking up an isolation transformer (6.3V >> but rated to 3000V).. >> >> Okay, I did some of Christians tests and I found that the Transformer indeed >> was arching into the main supply. (I won two of these scopes on EBay). >> >> Here is the funny part.. I rarely go into surplus stores but tonight I made >> an exception. I told the guy at the counter what my problem was and he had a >> box full of 6.3Volt isolation transformers rated to 3000KV > >I wish I had access to suprlus stores like that. The few I know over here >have bits of battered transistor radios and not much else. I ship stuff to the UK all the time. If you have something you are in desparate need of (like that transformer).. please email me. If I see it I can pick it up and ship it. > >> HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH.. I could not believe it. I bought a few and tried one out. >> The scope now has a perfect trace. On XY the dot is crisp and very stable. I >> have to align the scope.. but will do so after I get all brand new tubes in >> it. > >A word of warning. There is _NO POINT_ in replacing all the valves in a >Tektronix 'scope -- most of them will be fine even after many years of >use (as an example, my 555 has had only a couple of valves replaced since >new). You _will_ cause problems if you replace valves indiscriminatately. >And you will have to do a full calibration (which is not as easy as it >looks). Some valves are probably 'Tektronix Tested Tubes', which are >essentially selected or matched ones. Replace those with ordinary valves >and you'll have a long day ahead of you trying to make it meet the specs. > Okay.. (my lack of tube knowledge talking)... a TV repair guy I know who use to do a lot of tube work told me tubes only last a couple of years. I did not want to have to recalibrate this scope everytime a tube drops out. Also, I will be reselling quite a few of the tubescopes with PDP-8s and don't want the scopes going south a month after they get them. I've ordered the spare but first I'll see how long the scope will last with the ones it has now. Are there particular tubes that will go regularly and should I replace those? >The best thing to do is to run through the calibration making as few >adjustments as possible. If some adjustment won't set up properly, then >debug the circuit. Don't necessarily replace the valve, which may well >_not_ be the problem (I've actually replaced more transistors than valves >in old Tektronix 500-series over the years!). > This one has 4 transistors in it. I am checking the caps right now. >Oh, and don't trust valve testers either. Certainly not simple 'emission >testers', which certainly won't show how a valve will perform in the >circuit. But even a mutual conductance tester, like my Avo Mk 4 won't >necessarily tell you how the valve will work under the conditions used in >the 'scope. The best test for a valve in one of these units is 'Does the >stage perform correctly'. > Yes. >So, buy spares if you want to, but don't replace parts unnecessarily. > Okay. > >> The only reason I don't like tubes is because they are very flakey in old >> mini computers.. From what I have heard from people who use to support them >> every power cycles was a nightmare. I am trying to stick to minis that can > >This may well have been true when you have a _lot_ of valves. But I can >assure you it's much less of a problem in these 'scopes... > >> Okay. >> I know.. What scares the hell out of me is I am hooking this thing up to my >> 8/S.. I am going to put some highvoltage diodes between the 8/S,8I and the >> scope to make sure if the scope goes bananas I don't blow a few hundred >> transistors in the minis. > >Reminds me of what can happen when the CRT in an HP9100 develops an >internal short. It blows transistors all over one of the deflection >boards, and then applies about 220V to the outputs from the processor >chassis. This generally wipes out a number of diodes on the gating board, >and if you're unlucky kills some transistors on a flip-flop board, some >transistors on the ROM address decoder, etc. > My point exactly.. there is no way I am going to let anything over +-10V hit the PDP-8s(plural) >> http://www.vacuumtubes.com/ has all the tubes in stock (all new in the >> box).. It is costing me over $300 for three sets of the tubes though :-( >> >> 6DJ8 Amperex tubes are over $30 each :-( > >Any reason that you think they're defective? Other than they're old >(which is no good reason!). > No, they work fine. I just don't want to have to recalibrate the scope every time one decides to die. If that's not an issue then I will leave them alone. john -- http://www.pdp8.com/ >-tony > > From oliv555 at arrl.net Sun Dec 5 11:03:06 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Adding 4116 to memory board was This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ References: <3.0.1.16.19991204211252.50976598@mailhost.intellistar.net> <384A6DC4.EE067436@softstar.it> Message-ID: <384A9ACA.CCE1527B@arrl.net> Enrico Badella wrote: > I would like to try bring it to 128KW by soldering in the > missing chips. At the moment I have added sockets for all this missing chips Just to share my own experience with adding sockets to unibus boards, we found that there was a clearance problem with adjacent boards even though lo-profile sockets were used. If this is your own system and no one else will touch it you'll be ok. There are 16 'pads' here, only two of which use DEC equipment; with over 30 techs, and board swapping is the norm. We had too many instances where the socketed chip was actually pulled out of socket while inserting the board. I ended up removing all the sockets. * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Nick Oliviero / nolivi@coair.com Simulator Project Engineer / (281)553-6507 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991205/de35d621/attachment.html From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 5 11:09:54 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek Message-ID: <991205120954.21e002fa@trailing-edge.com> >> Does anyone have a copy of the Basic source for Super StarTrek? It's >>included in the book "BASIC Computer Games" by David H. Ahl (Creative >>Computing). >> >> I probably won't win the eOverPay auction, so I'm trying to search out a >>copy of the game, since AFAIK, it's the only program of interest in book >>anyway. >Sure, I've got it, it's on one of the four 8" floppies that Creative >Computing was selling in 1977 or so with all the "BASIC Computer >Games" on them. > >If you want to see the original floppies and documentation cards, check >out > > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/flop1.jpg > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/flop2.jpg > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/sheet1a.gif > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/sheet2a.gif And here's the actual game in progress - running on my S-100 crate from the above 8" floppies: CompuPro Systems 56K CP/M 2.2H A>BASIC52 STARTREK BASIC-80 Rev. 5.2 [CP/M Version] Copyright 1977, 78, 79, 80 (C) by Microsoft Created: 14-Jul-80 24134 Bytes free YOUR ORDERS ARE AS FOLLOWS: -------------------------- DESTROY THE 19 KLINGON WARSHIPS WHICH HAVE INVADED THE GALAXY BEFORE THEY CAN ATTACK FEDERATION HEADQUARTERS ON STARDATE 2428. THIS GIVES YOU 28 DAYS. THERE ARE 3 STARBASES IN THE GALAXY FOR RESUPPLYING YOUR SHIP. ARE YOU READY TO ACCEPT COMMAND ('N' FOR INSTRUCTIONS)?Y YOUR MISSION BEGINS WITH YOUR STARSHIP LOCATED IN THE GALACTIC QUADRANT, 'CAPELLA I'. COMMAND? LRS LONG RANGE SCAN FOR QUADRANT 2, 6 ------------------- | 008 | 105 | 007 | ------------------- | 003 | 003 | 101 | ------------------- | 008 | 003 | 007 | ------------------- COMMAND? SRS +--1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8-+ 1 | | 1 STARDATE 2400.0 2 | * | 2 CONDITION GREEN 3 | | 3 QUADRANT 2, 6 4 | | 4 SECTOR 7, 7 5 | | 5 PHOTON TORPEDOES 10 6 | * * | 6 TOTAL ENERGY 2950 7 | | 7 SHIELDS 1000 8 | | 8 KLINGONS REMAINING 19 +--1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8-+ COMMAND? NAV COURSE (0-9)? 1 WARP FACTOR (0-8)? .2 NOW ENTERING DENEB III QUADRANT . . . COMBAT AREA CONDITION RED +--1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8-+ 1 | | 1 STARDATE 2401.0 2 | | 2 CONDITION *RED* 3 | +K+ | 3 QUADRANT 2, 7 4 | | 4 SECTOR 7, 1 5 | | 5 PHOTON TORPEDOES 10 6 | | 6 TOTAL ENERGY 2938 7 | | 7 SHIELDS 1000 8 | * | 8 KLINGONS REMAINING 19 +--1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8-+ COMMAND? PHA PHASERS LOCKED ON TARGET; ENERGY AVAILABLE = 1938 UNITS NUMBER OF UNITS TO FIRE? 350 121 UNIT HIT ON KLINGON AT SECTOR 3, 7. (SENSORS SHOW 115.412 UNITS REMAINING) 42 UNIT HIT ON ENTERPRISE FROM SECTOR 3, 7. COMMAND? PHA PHASERS LOCKED ON TARGET; ENERGY AVAILABLE = 1588 UNITS NUMBER OF UNITS TO FIRE? 350 117 UNIT HIT ON KLINGON AT SECTOR 3, 7. *** KLINGON DESTROYED *** COMMAND? -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From oliv555 at arrl.net Sun Dec 5 11:29:50 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: V4.7 and VMS vs MicroVMS Message-ID: <384AA10D.19F52D89@arrl.net> I was going thru some drives and tapes yesterday while trying to resurrect my MVII and came across a v4.7 distribution I din't know I had. This leads me to ask, one, if the person looking for same a few days back (Enrico?) found one. And a second, stupid question. Stupid because most of you probably know the answer. But as a PDP11 type relatively new to the VAXworld I'd like to know what is the difference/Is there a difference between VMS, MicroVMS? The tape I found is labeled MicroVMS v4.7 bin. Both of my Qbus machines are down right now so I cant verify this tape. If there is still the need for this maybe someone in the Houston area on list can check it out. Nick From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 5 11:31:54 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Basic Source for Super Star Trek Message-ID: <991205123154.21e002fa@trailing-edge.com> >> Does anyone have a copy of the Basic source for Super StarTrek? It's >>included in the book "BASIC Computer Games" by David H. Ahl (Creative >>Computing). >> >> I probably won't win the eOverPay auction, so I'm trying to search out a >>copy of the game, since AFAIK, it's the only program of interest in book >>anyway. >Sure, I've got it, it's on one of the four 8" floppies that Creative >Computing was selling in 1977 or so with all the "BASIC Computer >Games" on them. > >If you want to see the original floppies and documentation cards, check >out > > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/flop1.jpg > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/flop2.jpg > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/sheet1a.gif > http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/sheet2a.gif And for the source code listing (as opposed to Tokenized .BAS file), see http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/startrek.txt -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 5 11:40:56 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: V4.7 and VMS vs MicroVMS Message-ID: <991205124056.21e002fa@trailing-edge.com> >I was going thru some drives and tapes yesterday while trying to >resurrect my MVII and came across a v4.7 distribution I din't know I >had. This leads me to ask, one, if the person looking for same a few >days back (Enrico?) found one. And a second, stupid question. Stupid >because most of you probably know the answer. But as a PDP11 type >relatively new to the VAXworld I'd like to know what is the >difference/Is there a difference between VMS, MicroVMS? The tape I found >is labeled MicroVMS v4.7 bin. In the late V4 days, there were two kinds of VMS distribution kits: "full VMS", as you would install on a 11/730, 11/750, or 11/780, or 8600, or..., and there was "MicroVMS", which is what you put on your Microvax I or II. "MicroVMS" distribution kits were on huge stacks of floppies (RX50 or RX33 depending on what flavor you needed) and TK50 carts. MicroVMS is a "trimmed-down" VMS distribution, with the parts that aren't necessary (like Big-VAX support) or aren't usable on a Microvax (like the RSX-compatibility mode stuff) taken out. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 5 12:01:29 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: <003b01bf3f35$2934b580$fa3e65cc@default> from "John B" at Dec 5, 99 10:26:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3839 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991205/779b4e10/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 5 12:05:52 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Adding 4116 to memory board was This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ In-Reply-To: <384A9ACA.CCE1527B@arrl.net> from "Nick Oliviero" at Dec 5, 99 11:03:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1193 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991205/de2f751d/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Dec 5 14:07:33 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991204232649.009a3e40@127.0.0.1> References: <3.0.1.16.19991204211252.50976598@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991205140733.4de7c73c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:26 PM 12/4/99 -0500, Growling mad Roger "Merch" Merchbergeryou wrote: >Check out this ebay auction under Computers:Mainframe... > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=210172793 > >What an absolute, unadulterated jerk. > >Can you list negative feedback for a person even if you had no dealings >with them??? You used to be able to but I think you now have to list the auction number in the feedback form when reporting - feedback. They may check your ID against the ID of the winner of the auction. Joe > >Growling mad, >Roger "Merch" Merchberger >-- >Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers >Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. > >If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead >disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. > From marvin at rain.org Sun Dec 5 12:43:30 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ References: <3.0.1.16.19991204211252.50976598@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.32.19991204232649.009a3e40@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <384AB252.F6578610@rain.org> Roger Merchberger wrote: > > Check out this ebay auction under Computers:Mainframe... > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=210172793 > What an absolute, unadulterated jerk. > > Can you list negative feedback for a person even if you had no dealings > with them??? The short answer as you have already received is no. However, why would you want to? Giving this person the benefit of the doubt, I run into a lot of people who actually think there 1994 system that they paid $4k then for is still worth something now. Education will yield a lot more positive long term benefits to everyone. From Technoid at cheta.net Sun Dec 5 12:47:22 1999 From: Technoid at cheta.net (Technoid@cheta.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Data General MV/4000DC Documentation/Media Message-ID: <199912051856.NAA09607@lexington.ioa.net> I recently aquired a Data General MV/4000DC minicomputer with three 200 terminals and one 215 terminal, a 6311 tape unit and a Comswitch II access controller. I have rebuilt the tape drive and it works great now. I can boot from the onboard hard disk and navigate the system. I have gotten all 16 virtual consoles functioning. I have very little docs on this machine so pretty much have to 'hack' out anything I want to do which is slow progress. Does anyone have documentation on this machine or the AOS/VS operating system? Does anyone have SYSTEM Media for this machine? Does anyone have SOFTWARE for the machine? If I can help YOU with your classic computer questions, please let me know. I can help with: Atari 8 bits - know and have lots. Lots of software too. (450+ disks) I can help in: Networking Hard disks programming in Basic Various other languages All variants of AtariDos (MyDos, SmartDOs, etc) All Variants of Spartados including SDX Atari ST series computers - have two and am running MINT. Can help in TOS and a BSD unix clone I am running called MiNT which stands for Mint is Not Tos. CP/M 2.2 machines (z80 processor) such as ATR8000, ATR8500, Cromemco, Osborne, Kaypro, etc. I am a technician servicing Intel-based PC's so if you need support there I can help in: CP/M all versions of MS/PC dos etc, Concurrent DOS too OS/2 Windows x Windows NT SUSE and REDHAT Linux SCO Openserver V Windows NT terminal Server GEOS Sun Solaris (X86) OS/2 Warp and Warp Servers Novell Netware 2 thru 4 Lantastic Novell Netware lite 1.1 General networking questions for above operating systems and hardware. Please help with my MV4000DC. If you would like to see it you can TELNET into my PC which is running as a terminal on the MV4000 and you can play with the minicomputer that way! Just e-mail me and we will set up a time. Thanks in advance, Technoid Mutant -- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jeffrey S. Worley Technical Services Bits & Bytes Computer Services Inc. 1979B Hendersonville Road Asheville, NC 28803 828-684-8953 - voice 0900-1700 five days 828-687-9284 - 24hr fax Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk? Technoid@Cheta.net ----------------------------------------------------------- From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Dec 5 13:02:25 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: ebay feedback Message-ID: <0.cdfd8323.257c10c1@aol.com> In a message dated 12/5/1999 10:22:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > > > >Can you list negative feedback for a person even if you had no dealings > >with them??? > No you can't anymore. If you detect or suspect fraud then anyone can report that to Safe Harbor, the customer service department. I have done that, and like keeping up with spares, if you have a good reason for suspicions you should report it. The old adage still holds, "If it is too good to be true then it generally isn't." Some frauds are easy to detect. The "IBM MF' guy is just stupid. I bet his item gets no bids. Stupid people don't deserve a response. The DEC card in France. I don't think I would send cash up front to him. However he could just be a low budget person, this may be just fine. Scrap value on that card is about $8.00 in todays market. I don't think any IBM 1130 is worth more than a couple of hundred in scrap by the way. I suspect less than that. Paxton From slwmbox2 at pacbell.net Sun Dec 5 11:59:09 1999 From: slwmbox2 at pacbell.net (Jim McCarthy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Minor VAX peripheral woes ... Message-ID: <384A457D.4CCA114@pacbell.net> Hi -- I'm the original owner of a VAXstation 4000 model 60 which is still going strong with OpenVMS 7.2 (thanks to the DECUS hobbyist program) ... but I'm having a little trouble keeping up with the trailing edge of technology on two fronts: * I'd really like to add a 3.5-inch diskette drive (RX26? RX33 ?) to this system. I recently discovered both the GNU "MTOOLS" and Madgoat "PCX" software pacakges for VMS (which read/write MS-DOS disk formats ... MTOOLS will also read/write DOS files from an external SCSI 100Mb ZIP-drive connected to a VAX), but usually it would be much more convenient to use 3.5-inch diskettes (which is a common demonator among almost all PCs) rather than ZIP-100s. I've not had any luck searching for used RX?? drives on the net (plus I'd need the bezel, mounting bracket, etc). Suggestions on where I should be looking instead ??? * I bought a 3rd party SCSI CD-ROM (Pioneer DR-506S 32x) and have it in an external enclosure. I have the 2048/512-byte per block jumper on the drive "off" for 512-bytes per block. The drive is visible and reported properly from the console firmware, before booting to VMS, there are no SCSI-id conflicts, and my SCSI cable lengths are short. But when I attempt to mount a disk under VMS 7.2, a "medium offline" error message is returned. Curiously, if I attach the same drive & cable to an Alpha 600au workstation running OpenVMS 7.1-h2, the drive works fine. Hence I suspect that the OpenVMS 7.2 SCSI driver on the VAX is somehow to blame ... anyone know of any patches(?), or SCSI CD-ROM drivers from earlier VMS/VAX versions which might work ? Or what about exchanging the Pioneer DR-506S CD-ROM for some other 3rd party (i.e., affordable) SCSI drive which folks have used successfully with OpenVMS/VAX 7.2 ? Any suggestions would be appreciated. A few months back I'd put this question to the folks at "Accorn Software" who'd written a software utility/driver "MODISK" to enable older versions of OpenVMS/VAX to operate 3rd party CD-ROM drives ... but their product isn't supported (doesn't run) under OpenVMS versions 7.0 and beyond ... they didn't think it needed, as this functionality "should" now be part of the baseline OS. Anyway, I'd appreciate hearing from anyone with ideas on these items. Thanks much, -- Jim McCarthy jkmccarthy@pacbell.net From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 5 12:07:05 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: ebay feedback Message-ID: <00df01bf3f4b$89c13160$fa3e65cc@default> -----Original Message----- From: Innfogra@aol.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 2:03 PM Subject: ebay feedback >In a message dated 12/5/1999 10:22:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, >rigdonj@intellistar.net writes: > >> > >> >Can you list negative feedback for a person even if you had no dealings >> >with them??? >> >No you can't anymore. If you detect or suspect fraud then anyone can report >that to Safe Harbor, the customer service department. I have done that, and >like keeping up with spares, if you have a good reason for suspicions you >should report it. > >The old adage still holds, "If it is too good to be true then it generally >isn't." Some frauds are easy to detect. > >The "IBM MF' guy is just stupid. I bet his item gets no bids. Stupid people >don't deserve a response. > >The DEC card in France. I don't think I would send cash up front to him. >However he could just be a low budget person, this may be just fine. Scrap >value on that card is about $8.00 in todays market. > David Winter (the guy in France) has bid on some of my items and always paid quickly. He seems to collect boards but does not buy entire systems. >I don't think any IBM 1130 is worth more than a couple of hundred in scrap by >the way. I suspect less than that. > Then I guess the scrappers will be outbidding you..... The larger 1960 mini computers had a lot more gold in them than the '70s models as the gold was plated thicker in the '60s. The 1130 (from what I can remember) has more than $100US in aluminum in it (just cpu + printer). I don't know what the gold content is.. (I'll find out.. I know a company that does).. BTW I just lost an IBM 360 to a gold scrapper [bid more than me]. Some of the metal scrappers I know never bothered to look at gold content.. what's scaring the hell out of me are these guys that know to the penny what they can extract out of it and generally bid a lot higher than most. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com >Paxton > From oliv555 at arrl.net Sun Dec 5 13:26:37 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ References: <3.0.1.16.19991204211252.50976598@mailhost.intellistar.net> <3.0.1.16.19991205140733.4de7c73c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <384ABC6D.31573694@arrl.net> Joe wrote: > You used to be able to but I think you now have to list the auction > number in the feedback form when reporting - feedback. They may check your > ID against the ID of the winner of the auction. > They WILL, even on a positive feedback. I mistyped the item # on a +feedback I was trying to leave on a seller and it got immediately kicked back. Nick From Glenatacme at aol.com Sun Dec 5 13:53:02 1999 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: AOL members 2nd class citizens? (was Re: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/) Message-ID: <0.8f6337ac.257c1c9e@aol.com> Bruce Lane wrote: In a message dated 12/05/1999 12:08:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com writes: > The guy's an absolute moron, as is clearly evidenced > by his poor spelling. The fact that he's posting from an AOL address, and > that he has no feedback listed whatsoever, won't help either. Umm, just out of curiosity, why do you consider an AOL address "unhelpful?" Glen Goodwin 0/0 From oliv555 at arrl.net Sun Dec 5 14:02:18 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Adding 4116 to memory board was This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ References: Message-ID: <384AC4CA.931827A3@arrl.net> Tony Duell wrote: > I've not had too many problems using turned-pin sockets. Of course these > _are_ my machines, and I know to be careful. On the other hand, DEC put > that grant priority plug-module on many Unibus boards, and that's taller > than an IC in a socket. And yes, they do get flipped out sometimes... > I recall another problem, someone had installed a socket in repairing a bipolar memory array. We started to experience sporadic memory errors. Now in our application,PDP11/45s running a flight simulator, some of the more performance-hungry flights routines are mapped to the speedy bipolar region. When the board was swapped around to a less 'intensive' area the problem went away. Someone eventually found a warning in one of the DEC manuals advising that using sockets might result in performance degradation. I don't believe this would be a problem with non-fastbus memory. > The worst thing is that sometimes DIP switches get flipped when boards > are inserted or removed. This one causes some _very_ hard-to-trace Yes, we had similar experiences on fastbus mem arrays with that DIPack in the upper right corner. Nick From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Dec 5 14:03:40 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! Message-ID: <199912052003.PAA29258@world.std.com> > The only reason I don't like tubes is because they are very flakey in ol <>> mini computers.. From what I have heard from people who use to support > every power cycles was a nightmare. I am trying to stick to minis that That is true, usually they get filiment failures and those are easy to spot. Power cycles tend to accelerate that. then again I had a tube organ (some 80+ tubes) and only had one failure in 8 years. <>> 8/S.. I am going to put some highvoltage diodes between the 8/S,8I and <>> scope to make sure if the scope goes bananas I don't blow a few hundred <>> transistors in the minis. ???? Why? The scope is an enclosed system that would be hard pressed to emit high voltages back into the system it's hooked to. It's not like the HP9100 in that respect. For the RM503 to do that the HV lead would have to fall on one of the input lines! As I remember the series 8 Display scopes were driven off a pair of D/As and some single bit output to blank the beam. If you have something different I'd like to hear about that. Allison From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 5 13:16:34 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! Message-ID: <00f001bf3f55$3f018ee0$fa3e65cc@default> -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 3:06 PM Subject: Re: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! > >In TVs where the tubes are low end and not always run at their best >operating points that may be true. In Qualtity test equipment that is >rarely the case. > > >Mechanical shock and power cycling tends to ruin tubes faster. Generally >tubes have good lifetimes and can be considered reliable (excluding the >effects of heat on surrounding parts) . > > >Best to leave be unless there is a direct indication one may be soft. >Don't forget with the exception of open filements or shorts from mechanical >shock tubes tend to fail slowly and soft. > > >Good idea s those (caps) do fail. > ><>> The only reason I don't like tubes is because they are very flakey in ol ><>> mini computers.. From what I have heard from people who use to support ><>> every power cycles was a nightmare. I am trying to stick to minis that > >That is true, usually they get filiment failures and those are easy to >spot. Power cycles tend to accelerate that. then again I had a tube >organ (some 80+ tubes) and only had one failure in 8 years. > ><>> 8/S.. I am going to put some highvoltage diodes between the 8/S,8I and ><>> scope to make sure if the scope goes bananas I don't blow a few hundred ><>> transistors in the minis. > >???? Why? The scope is an enclosed system that would be hard pressed to >emit high voltages back into the system it's hooked to. It's not like the >HP9100 in that respect. For the RM503 to do that the HV lead would have to >fall on one of the input lines! As I remember the series 8 Display scopes >were driven off a pair of D/As and some single bit output to blank the >beam. If you have something different I'd like to hear about that. Three D/As. 1 12 bit for x, 1 12 bit for y, and 1 3 bit for intensity. When the transformer went in this RM503 it raised the regular voltages throughout the scope to 500+ volts... in some places over 1000. That was present right through to the input. I am protecting the D/A converters as I don't need the PDPs taking major beatings in the future. All the supplies inside the scope (-100,100,250,85,-3000 were going nuts). The other RM503 I have has the same problem. I am going to put an isolation transformer on every RM503,RM560 scope I get to solve the problem ahead of time. The 8 Display controllers have the intensity option :-) (for spacewars of course). The AX08 (XR option) and the 34D (standard) had a 3 bit intensity D/A output for the scope. The RM503s were modified by DEC for intensity control. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com > >Allison > > > From larsenl at rhtc.net Sun Dec 5 18:06:29 1999 From: larsenl at rhtc.net (Lars Larsen) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: WORKSLATE System on eBay Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19991206000629.0069f62c@mail.rhtc.net> I have placed a Convergent Technologies WorkSlate system on eBay under Computers: Vintage #214549606 I believe this is a complete system. Starts at $200 From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Dec 5 15:29:18 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: AOL members 2nd class citizens? (was Re: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/) Message-ID: <0.683411f5.257c332e@aol.com> In a message dated 12/5/99 2:53:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, Glenatacme@aol.com writes: > Bruce Lane wrote: > > In a message dated 12/05/1999 12:08:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, > kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com writes: > > > The guy's an absolute moron, as is clearly evidenced > > by his poor spelling. The fact that he's posting from an AOL address, and > > that he has no feedback listed whatsoever, won't help either. > > Umm, just out of curiosity, why do you consider an AOL address "unhelpful?" > > Glen Goodwin > 0/0 well, its a very old and popular stereotype that aolosers are very new to computers and dont have a clue as to what the big picture is. DB Young coming in 2000: www.nothingtodo.org ! --> this message printed on recycled disk space view the computers of yesteryear at http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm (now accepting donations!) From go at ao.com Sun Dec 5 15:33:40 1999 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Ugh, PC0 + PDP-8I problem. In-Reply-To: <002d01bf36f2$ca840b20$8c75e2d1@default> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991205131500.03ae15e0@ao.com> At 10:11 PM 11/24/99 -0500, you wrote: >I have just started to look at this problem but I don't like it already. > >Here we go: > >If I load a RIM paper tape into my 8I using (single step) it loads in fine. > >If I load in a RIM paper tape into my 8I running (no manual steps).. the >data loaded is garbage , and may not even be in the right place. >..snip Just a guess: are the "working" tapes the opaque grey DEC (un-oiled) paper, while the tapes that fail were punched on oiled (probably yellow or green) tape? We had problems with illumination on our 300cpm reader when reading the more "transparent" oiled yellow and green tape (the kind you punched on your ASR33.) Seems as the bulb aged, the filament got smaller as the tungsten boiled off and the brightness went up until it failed. I guess as the resistance went up a constant current source just kept cranking up the voltage, and the color temp went up... Anyway, for whatever reason... The reader eventually "saw right through" the tape. The source of illumination was an "automotive" style end-pin clip-in bulb with a single in-line filament and its aging characteristics, even at approximately 1/2 intensity, were not good. The reader needed tweaking every few months. A good design would have had a feedback cell controlling the light source... But I digress... We diagnosed the problem by creating a loop of tape with the pattern 10101010 01010101 10101010 01010101 ... and running a dumb "reader loop" program to just cycle the bytes into (and ignored by) the computer. Then you adjust the illumination and gain of the photo detectors until the pulses are shaped correctly. I suppose you could also check the results on the computer and update a counter in the AC (I just love having real control panels...) so you had some additional feedback the problem was being solved. This wasn't on a DEC machine, but the principles may be the same. Just a suggestion. -Gary >Any suggestions???????????????? > >john From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Dec 5 15:36:46 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: AOL members 2nd class citizens? (was Re: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/) References: <0.683411f5.257c332e@aol.com> Message-ID: <99120516393702.06931@vault.neurotica.com> On Sun, 05 Dec 1999, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: >> Umm, just out of curiosity, why do you consider an AOL address "unhelpful?" >> >> Glen Goodwin >> 0/0 > >well, its a very old and popular stereotype that aolosers are very new to >computers and dont have a clue as to what the big picture is. A sweeping generalization, to be sure. Like other stereotypes, this one may or may not be based in fact...and if it is, there are likely a large number of exceptions to it. I hope none of the AOLers here take it personally. In the short time I've been on this list, I've found that EVERYONE here contributes in a positive way at one time or another...regardless of what their email address looks like. -Dave McGuire From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 5 16:02:29 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Ugh, PC0 + PDP-8I problem. In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991205131500.03ae15e0@ao.com> from "Gary Oliver" at Dec 5, 99 01:33:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1744 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991205/28981351/attachment.ksh From oliv555 at arrl.net Sun Dec 5 16:55:15 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: V4.7 and VMS vs MicroVMS References: <991205124056.21e002fa@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <384AED53.BFAD7FAF@arrl.net> CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > MicroVMS is a "trimmed-down" VMS distribution, with the parts that > aren't necessary (like Big-VAX support) or aren't usable on a Microvax > (like the RSX-compatibility mode stuff) taken out. Well, thats not good news. Ironically, a while back I was also looking for a later v4.x distribution with the idea of doing a 'gradual' upgrade of our 11/785 (currently v4.3) to a later version which would allow us access to more modern storage. Were currently using RA60's which only seem to last about 6-8 months between drive crashes. * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Nick Oliviero / nolivi@coair.com Simulator Project Engineer / (281)553-6507 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991205/30622c5d/attachment.html From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Dec 5 17:07:37 1999 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: <199912052003.PAA29258@world.std.com> Message-ID: Here are a few comments about tubes, as there seems to be some misinformation floating around here and elsewhere... > In TVs where the tubes are low end and not always run at their best > operating points that may be true. In Qualtity test equipment that is > rarely the case. This is a rather common misunderstanding. In truth, the tubes from the 1960s - the ones that most people call junk - are amongst the best. The quality of manufacturing (improved outgassing and getter/keepers) was far better than those made in the 1940s, bulbs shrunk down to submini sizes (Nuvistors, T3/4 bulbs, and the ceramic tubes), and the electrical performance went thru the roof (transconductance). Many tubes started to be made in Japan and elsewhere, and are very good performers, but with a very bad reputation. Color TV service is very demanding on tubes (basically the only market left in 1960), so the tubes were made tough. One must remember that some of them, namely in the sweep circuits, were essentially transmitting tubes with new bulbs and receiving numbers. > Mechanical shock and power cycling tends to ruin tubes faster. Generally > tubes have good lifetimes and can be considered reliable (excluding the > effects of heat on surrounding parts) . While mechanical shock certainly kills tubes, power cycling generally does not. The filaments do not instantly get heated like a household lightbulb - it is far more controlled and the filaments have time (and room) to expand. In some of the older tubes, this was done with springs, and on modern minis and Compactrons, the filament is allowed to slide inside the cylinder of the cathode. Even some of the tubes rated for mobile service with quick heating filaments to not really care much about power cycles. > That is true, usually they get filiment failures and those are easy to > spot. Power cycles tend to accelerate that. then again I had a tube > organ (some 80+ tubes) and only had one failure in 8 years. Most tube failures are due to loss of emmission, rather than a burnout. The most common failure is that the filament loses the outer coating (generally thorium based), and emission drops to half, maybe zero. There are tricks to rejuvenating filaments, but it is mostly magic and luck - trying to get trapped thoria to diffuse to the surface. Soft vacuums (gas in the tube) also is a common failure mode, as the glass-metal seals just are not perfect things. Going back into hiding... William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From oliv555 at arrl.net Sun Dec 5 17:09:57 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: RA73s and the BA123 Message-ID: <384AF0C5.5E44ED2B@arrl.net> Has anyone done a succesful install of the later RA drives into the BA123 enclosure? I recently picked up a pair of RA73s with the idea of installing them in my MVII, actually now upgraded to MVIII+. I've got the correct cabling for the controller side but have been unable to locate the cables (or part numbers) for the drive end. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Nick From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Dec 5 17:23:50 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Minor VAX peripheral woes ... Message-ID: <199912052323.SAA25041@world.std.com> <* I'd really like to add a 3.5-inch diskette drive (RX26? RX33 ?) RX23 < I've not had any luck searching for used RX?? drives on the net < (plus I'd need the bezel, mounting bracket, etc). Suggestions < on where I should be looking instead ??? The reson for that is you need either the SCSIfied version or the earlier plain 3.5" with a SCSI bridge board. Both will be hard to find. <* I bought a 3rd party SCSI CD-ROM (Pioneer DR-506S 32x) and have < it in an external enclosure. I have the 2048/512-byte per block There are plenty of SCSI Cdroms that work fine. < Curiously, if I attach the same drive & cable to an Alpha 600au < workstation running OpenVMS 7.1-h2, the drive works fine. Hence < I suspect that the OpenVMS 7.2 SCSI driver on the VAX is somehow < to blame ... anyone know of any patches(?), or SCSI CD-ROM drivers I did SCSI Cdrom load of the 7.2kit on my 3100 using a sony unit I had laying around. Works just fine. May be a drive interface problem like termination or cabling. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Dec 5 17:24:03 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Adding 4116 to memory board was This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ Message-ID: <199912052324.SAA25137@world.std.com> I strongly advise against sockets. The height and the added capacitance tends to affect array behavour. Also Some sockets are more trouble than bad memory. Allison From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Dec 5 17:59:33 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Pricey scrap In-Reply-To: <0.cdfd8323.257c10c1@aol.com> Message-ID: >I don't think any IBM 1130 is worth more than a couple of hundred in scrap by >the way. I suspect less than that. I was thinking the same thing. The II30 is a IBM selectric in a desk with a mostly empty credenza for the electronics. The first time I hung around while the IBM tech opened it up I couldn't believe how much was air and how little electronics were inside. Something to keep in mind is that part of being in the scrap business is being a good rug merchant (selling to an unknown upper price limit). I've looked at some of the statements that come back from a metal refiner, and its often $2k gold content, minus $600 removal costs, net $1400 for several pallets of circuit boards etc. Unless a specific unit is a KNOWN goldmine, the salvage place gets paid to hual it away. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Dec 5 17:37:16 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: <003b01bf3f35$2934b580$fa3e65cc@default> Message-ID: >>A word of warning. There is _NO POINT_ in replacing all the valves in a >>Tektronix 'scope -- most of them will be fine even after many years of >Okay.. (my lack of tube knowledge talking)... a TV repair guy I know who use >to do a lot of tube work told me tubes only last a couple of years. I did The tube newsgroup recently has been talking about buying old scopes just to harvest the tubes. When you get a good look at what good quality tubes cost these days I think you will see why. Here are some completed eBay prices; 208721609 (4) NOS NIB Telefunken ECC803S/12AX7 Tubes $511.00 * 17 * 12/04 08:04 204768092 10 TELEFUNKEN 12AX7 TUBES, HiFi TUBES AMP $222.50 8 11/27 21:24 200257197 13 Mullard Short Plate 12AX7 Tubes (+3) $207.50 7 11/20 23:44 200233119 Long plate Amperex (Holland) 12AX7 Tubes! $201.00 8 11/20 22:06 209320344 4 telefunken smooth plate 12ax7 tubes n.o.s $183.50 * 7 * 12/05 00:20 200550622 12AX7 A(ECC83) IEC 10M series, Mullard tubes $180.00 5 11/21 14:10 210887834 5 Mullard 12AX7's NOS Radio Vacuum Hi-Fi Tube $167.50 16 12/03 00:03 204691362 3 TELEFUNKEN NOS NIB ECC83/12AX7 $157.50 10 11/27 19:36 From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Dec 5 18:04:07 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: AOL members 2nd class citizens? (was Re: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/) In-Reply-To: <0.8f6337ac.257c1c9e@aol.com> Message-ID: >Umm, just out of curiosity, why do you consider an AOL address "unhelpful?" AOL flooded the net with all those newbies a few years ago, and is still seen by most as some sort of internet with training wheels. The opposite are the .rr.com people who project an aura of wisdom and net saavy. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 5 18:08:49 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Dec 5, 99 06:07:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1392 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991206/fa4daebb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 5 18:12:04 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Adding 4116 to memory board was This guy needs a *LART*... In-Reply-To: <199912052324.SAA25137@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Dec 5, 99 06:24:03 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 573 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991206/10596074/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 5 18:46:07 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:07 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Dec 5, 99 03:37:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 850 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991206/0be7e445/attachment.ksh From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Dec 5 18:54:24 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Dec 06, 1999 12:46:07 AM Message-ID: <199912060054.RAA25977@calico.litterbox.com> > [1] I do not believe you can determine which of 2 amplifiers (say) will > necessarily sound better (to you) just based on the performance figures. > But I most certainly do believe that if there is an audible difference > then the measurements will be different as well. > > -tony I think there may be audible differences that the measurements aren't sensative to. But then, it's hard to compare tube equipment to transistor or chip equipment directly, as there are always other differences. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mbg at world.std.com Sun Dec 5 19:08:24 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Adopt a scrapper and paper tape punches. Message-ID: <199912060108.UAA12395@world.std.com> >The best answer is to make friends with a scrapper. Anyone who will pay >twice the scrap value consistently will be a welcome customer. In the >long run you may get systems set aside for you to look at. Ask for >particular brands or items but don't become a pest. They need to know >what you are looking for. Check on a regular basis. Don't ask them to >call you unless you are willing to offer significant money. They are busy >and you are not a major part of their business. I like the idea... my only question is, Where does one find such a scrapper? Is it as simple as checking the Yellow Pages under Scrapper or metal recovery? How do you know they deal with computers without calling? I'd hate to get off to a bad start with one... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Dec 5 20:06:30 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback In-Reply-To: <00df01bf3f4b$89c13160$fa3e65cc@default> Message-ID: <4.1.19991205205119.009231d0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 01:07 PM 12/5/99 -0500, John B said something like: > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Innfogra@aol.com -- snip -- >>I don't think any IBM 1130 is worth more than a couple of hundred in scrap >by >>the way. I suspect less than that. >> > >Then I guess the scrappers will be outbidding you..... The larger 1960 mini >computers had a lot more gold in them than the '70s models as the gold was >plated thicker in the '60s. The 1130 (from what I can remember) has more >than $100US in aluminum in it (just cpu + printer). I don't know what the >gold content is.. (I'll find out.. I know a company that does).. BTW I just Gold was a lot cheaper per ounce back in those days compared to now even when considering inflation. US$35 an ounce I think I recall in the late 60's/early 70's before it really shot up in price. Was up to US$700 or so for a short time a couple of decades ago. Around US$300 per ounce now I think. So it would be probable to find connectors, circuit card connections, etc. with a heavier layer of gold on a 60's-vintage machine like the 1130. Also, there was a whole *heap* more connections in such a machine vs. the highly integrated mainframes/minis of rather recent times. This gives a better perspective of what those scrappers will pay for a machine. But $4K for an 1130 as John reported hearing still seems high. Other really precious metals inside of it? Platinum? Goo-gobs of silver (at about US$3 an ounce)? >lost an IBM 360 to a gold scrapper [bid more than me]. Some of the metal >scrappers I know never bothered to look at gold content.. what's scaring the >hell out of me are these guys that know to the penny what they can extract >out of it and generally bid a lot higher than most. Sounds like they have a network or something in which they describe (or boast about) what they've salvaged. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 5 19:22:21 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback Message-ID: <001c01bf3f88$5806b540$fa3e65cc@default> -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 9:07 PM Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback >Upon the date 01:07 PM 12/5/99 -0500, John B said something like: >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Innfogra@aol.com > > -- snip -- >>>I don't think any IBM 1130 is worth more than a couple of hundred in scrap >>by >>>the way. I suspect less than that. >>> >> >>Then I guess the scrappers will be outbidding you..... The larger 1960 mini >>computers had a lot more gold in them than the '70s models as the gold was >>plated thicker in the '60s. The 1130 (from what I can remember) has more >>than $100US in aluminum in it (just cpu + printer). I don't know what the >>gold content is.. (I'll find out.. I know a company that does).. BTW I just > >Gold was a lot cheaper per ounce back in those days compared to now even >when considering inflation. US$35 an ounce I think I recall in the late >60's/early 70's before it really shot up in price. Was up to US$700 or so >for a short time a couple of decades ago. Around US$300 per ounce now I >think. So it would be probable to find connectors, circuit card >connections, etc. with a heavier layer of gold on a 60's-vintage machine >like the 1130. Also, there was a whole *heap* more connections in such a >machine vs. the highly integrated mainframes/minis of rather recent times. >This gives a better perspective of what those scrappers will pay for a >machine. But $4K for an 1130 as John reported hearing still seems high. >Other really precious metals inside of it? Platinum? Goo-gobs of silver (at >about US$3 an ounce)? I thought he was out of his tree when he told me what he was paying for the mainframes. I didn't believe it until I saw a fax on a piece of equipment in the warehouse which showed he bid $8000 on an IBM 30 series mainframe (water cooled) THAT WAS ONLY THE CPU!. He had other bids on the other parts. He looks at each piece, puts a price on it and then totals it on the bottom. I believe he said the Hitachi supers used Platinum [not sure, he did mention one metal other than silver or gold). BTW: The sick &*^*&*(^ offered to buy the two Fujitsus I have coming in for a decent $$$ due to gold content. He also asked me if I was interested in selling any of my 1960's minis for gold as well. As I will probably be sending the Vax 6000 I get to him (hey! I can't pull minis out of him without sending some...), I will ask him to quote me on: Fujitsu Super computer (I'll list the items as I saw them on his fax). The Vax 6000/610 with drives, etc... An IBM360 and a PDP-8/S I want to know what kind of $$$ he is actually going to offer. I do get a lot of sites willing to accept $1-3K for *many systems* but I hate to compete with this kind of company without knowing what I should be offering. > >>lost an IBM 360 to a gold scrapper [bid more than me]. Some of the metal >>scrappers I know never bothered to look at gold content.. what's scaring the >>hell out of me are these guys that know to the penny what they can extract >>out of it and generally bid a lot higher than most. > >Sounds like they have a network or something in which they describe (or >boast about) what they've salvaged. > This guy did 13 million pounds last year. I am sure he knows how much $$$ in metal is in ever mini/mainframe/super computer on the planet.. He even knows the contents for Apple IIcs [don't laugh.. he had a skid full of them] and IBM PS/2 XXX series. john http://www.pdp8.com/ >Regards, Chris >-- -- >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ > From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Dec 5 21:29:50 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: <00f001bf3f55$3f018ee0$fa3e65cc@default> Message-ID: <4.1.19991205212031.00ab9910@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 02:16 PM 12/5/99 -0500, John B said something like: > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Allison J Parent -- snip -- >>???? Why? The scope is an enclosed system that would be hard pressed to >>emit high voltages back into the system it's hooked to. It's not like the >>HP9100 in that respect. For the RM503 to do that the HV lead would have to >>fall on one of the input lines! As I remember the series 8 Display scopes >>were driven off a pair of D/As and some single bit output to blank the >>beam. If you have something different I'd like to hear about that. I agree with Allison. Without knowing exactly the mods done by DEC that you mention below, I'm still assuming the output of the D/As is connected right into the SO-239 style front panel input connectors. In that case, the input circuitry is isolated from any HV. The inputs go directly to the vertical and horizontal amplifier tube grids (the 6DJ8's) after passing thru their respective attenuator switch assemblies. > >Three D/As. 1 12 bit for x, 1 12 bit for y, and 1 3 bit for intensity. When >the transformer went in this RM503 it raised the regular voltages throughout >the scope to 500+ volts... in some places over 1000. That was present right Ouch. I hope bypass capacitors and some coupling caps haven't had their dielectric damaged. Most of the ceramic caps and poly caps have ratings of 500 and 600 volts DC respectively and 1KV is pushing or exceeding their surge voltage rating. >through to the input. I am protecting the D/A converters as I don't need the >PDPs taking major beatings in the future. All the supplies inside the scope >(-100,100,250,85,-3000 were going nuts). The other RM503 I have has the same >problem. I am going to put an isolation transformer on every RM503,RM560 >scope I get to solve the problem ahead of time. The other one has same problem? Interesting coincidence or possibly a common failure mode of this scope. I *was* going to put a benchtop style 503 on my 'hunt for' list as it looks to be an excellent X-Y scope for my bench but I'll do some further thinking on that I guess. > >The 8 Display controllers have the intensity option :-) (for spacewars of >course). The AX08 (XR option) and the 34D (standard) had a 3 bit intensity >D/A output for the scope. The RM503s were modified by DEC for intensity >control. That manual you said you have, is it from DEC or Tek? I'm curious about the mods. If you have a vanilla Tek manual like I have you can see that there are a pair of binding posts on the back of the unit which may be labeled "CRT GRID" and "GND." The GRID connection goes directly to the CRT grid through a 0.001 mfd capacitor. Now if DEC has done some fancy stuff to the 'scope by intrusively interfacing the PDP8 display controller directly to the deflection amplifier circuits in some manner then yes, I'd be leery of potential damage to the PDP circuits. Same for the intensity modulation (aka Z-axis modulation) circuit. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From vaxman at uswest.net Sun Dec 5 21:34:49 1999 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) In-Reply-To: <00df01bf3f4b$89c13160$fa3e65cc@default> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Dec 1999, John B wrote: > > David Winter (the guy in France) has bid on some of my items and always paid > quickly. He seems to collect boards but does not buy entire systems. > > >I don't think any IBM 1130 is worth more than a couple of hundred in scrap > by > >the way. I suspect less than that. > > > > Then I guess the scrappers will be outbidding you..... The larger 1960 mini > computers had a lot more gold in them than the '70s models as the gold was > plated thicker in the '60s. The 1130 (from what I can remember) has more > than $100US in aluminum in it (just cpu + printer). I don't know what the > gold content is.. (I'll find out.. I know a company that does).. BTW I just > lost an IBM 360 to a gold scrapper [bid more than me]. Some of the metal > scrappers I know never bothered to look at gold content.. what's scaring the > hell out of me are these guys that know to the penny what they can extract > out of it and generally bid a lot higher than most. > Where can you find out what the gold/aluminum/steel value of a computer at? The obvious solution is to know what a scrapper is willing to pay, and add $10 to your bid. A scrapper will never spend more to buy something than it is worth, a collector will. Clint From vaxman at uswest.net Sun Dec 5 21:36:47 1999 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: AOL members 2nd class citizens? (was Re: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/) In-Reply-To: <0.683411f5.257c332e@aol.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 5 Dec 1999 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 12/5/99 2:53:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, > Glenatacme@aol.com writes: > > > Bruce Lane wrote: > > > > In a message dated 12/05/1999 12:08:55 AM Eastern Standard Time, > > kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com writes: > > > > > The guy's an absolute moron, as is clearly evidenced > > > by his poor spelling. The fact that he's posting from an AOL address, > and > > > that he has no feedback listed whatsoever, won't help either. > > > > Umm, just out of curiosity, why do you consider an AOL address "unhelpful?" > > > > Glen Goodwin > > 0/0 > > well, its a very old and popular stereotype that aolosers are very new to > computers and dont have a clue as to what the big picture is. > Actually, I think WebTv has taken over that particular banner... clint From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 5 20:34:43 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! Message-ID: <002c01bf3f92$743d1b00$fa3e65cc@default> -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 10:30 PM Subject: Re: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! >Upon the date 02:16 PM 12/5/99 -0500, John B said something like: >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Allison J Parent > -- snip -- >>>???? Why? The scope is an enclosed system that would be hard pressed to >>>emit high voltages back into the system it's hooked to. It's not like the >>>HP9100 in that respect. For the RM503 to do that the HV lead would have to >>>fall on one of the input lines! As I remember the series 8 Display scopes >>>were driven off a pair of D/As and some single bit output to blank the >>>beam. If you have something different I'd like to hear about that. > >I agree with Allison. Without knowing exactly the mods done by DEC that you >mention below, I'm still assuming the output of the D/As is connected right >into the SO-239 style front panel input connectors. In that case, the input >circuitry is isolated from any HV. The inputs go directly to the vertical >and horizontal amplifier tube grids (the 6DJ8's) after passing thru their >respective attenuator switch assemblies. > They did not hook up to the front panel inputs. They used 3 connectors on the back of the scope (x,y,z). All went into the amplifiers (except for Z of course). >> >>Three D/As. 1 12 bit for x, 1 12 bit for y, and 1 3 bit for intensity. When >>the transformer went in this RM503 it raised the regular voltages throughout >>the scope to 500+ volts... in some places over 1000. That was present right > >Ouch. I hope bypass capacitors and some coupling caps haven't had their >dielectric damaged. Most of the ceramic caps and poly caps have ratings of >500 and 600 volts DC respectively and 1KV is pushing or exceeding their >surge voltage rating. > No, I tested it for very short times. I don't bother cycling power when I see stuff like that. >>through to the input. I am protecting the D/A converters as I don't need the >>PDPs taking major beatings in the future. All the supplies inside the scope >>(-100,100,250,85,-3000 were going nuts). The other RM503 I have has the same >>problem. I am going to put an isolation transformer on every RM503,RM560 >>scope I get to solve the problem ahead of time. > >The other one has same problem? Interesting coincidence or possibly a >common failure mode of this scope. I *was* going to put a benchtop style >503 on my 'hunt for' list as it looks to be an excellent X-Y scope for my >bench but I'll do some further thinking on that I guess. > Yes it does. But don't worry... I like this 503 and with an isolation transformer inside that problem will never happen again. >> >>The 8 Display controllers have the intensity option :-) (for spacewars of >>course). The AX08 (XR option) and the 34D (standard) had a 3 bit intensity >>D/A output for the scope. The RM503s were modified by DEC for intensity >>control. > >That manual you said you have, is it from DEC or Tek? I'm curious about the Both, one from Tek and the LAB-8/34D interface manual from dec. >mods. If you have a vanilla Tek manual like I have you can see that there >are a pair of binding posts on the back of the unit which may be labeled >"CRT GRID" and "GND." The GRID connection goes directly to the CRT grid >through a 0.001 mfd capacitor. > >Now if DEC has done some fancy stuff to the 'scope by intrusively >interfacing the PDP8 display controller directly to the deflection >amplifier circuits in some manner then yes, I'd be leery of potential >damage to the PDP circuits. Same for the intensity modulation (aka Z-axis >modulation) circuit. > Yes they did... and I will do the same with some isolation added. This scope is surprisingly stable... I just finished building a flip chip tester and will be populating the 34D tonight... I hope it *lights* up. john http://www.pdp8.com/ >Regards, Chris >-- -- >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ > From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 5 20:42:11 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) Message-ID: <003101bf3f93$7efcc3a0$fa3e65cc@default> -----Original Message----- From: Clint Wolff (VAX collector) To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 05, 1999 10:38 PM Subject: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) > > > >On Sun, 5 Dec 1999, John B wrote: > >> >> David Winter (the guy in France) has bid on some of my items and always paid >> quickly. He seems to collect boards but does not buy entire systems. >> >> >I don't think any IBM 1130 is worth more than a couple of hundred in scrap >> by >> >the way. I suspect less than that. >> > >> >> Then I guess the scrappers will be outbidding you..... The larger 1960 mini >> computers had a lot more gold in them than the '70s models as the gold was >> plated thicker in the '60s. The 1130 (from what I can remember) has more >> than $100US in aluminum in it (just cpu + printer). I don't know what the >> gold content is.. (I'll find out.. I know a company that does).. BTW I just >> lost an IBM 360 to a gold scrapper [bid more than me]. Some of the metal >> scrappers I know never bothered to look at gold content.. what's scaring the >> hell out of me are these guys that know to the penny what they can extract >> out of it and generally bid a lot higher than most. >> > >Where can you find out what the gold/aluminum/steel value of a >computer at? The obvious solution is to know what a scrapper is >willing to pay, and add $10 to your bid. A scrapper will never >spend more to buy something than it is worth, a collector will. The problem is: *some* minis/mainframes his company is willing to pay more for than it is worth in it's unrestored condition. Ie: What can I resell a Fujitsu super computer for, restored??? Unfortunately, it looks like it's worth more in gold. I can justify paying higher dollars for 1950/60s minis but I won't pay $8000 for something that is 7 years old. Please remember this is "profit talking"... Maybe there might be someone who *really* wants a Fujitsu... but are they willing to compete with a scrapper at $8K? I am lucky in that I still have a lot of paper mills/factories he is not into yet so I can grab huge racks of minis for a couple thousand. Gotta hand it to the *sneaky* guy.. He even offered to go to the sites I purchase from to pick up and deliver what I want and pick up what I don't... and I am sure to add his name to the bidders list :-( john http://www.pdp8.com/ > >Clint > > > From cfandt at netsync.net Sun Dec 5 22:12:28 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: References: <199912052003.PAA29258@world.std.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19991205223331.00ac3160@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 06:07 PM 12/5/99 -0500, William Donzelli said something like: >Here are a few comments about tubes, as there seems to be some >misinformation floating around here and elsewhere... > >> In TVs where the tubes are low end and not always run at their best >> operating points that may be true. In Qualtity test equipment that is >> rarely the case. > >This is a rather common misunderstanding. In truth, the tubes from the >1960s - the ones that most people call junk - are amongst the best. The >quality of manufacturing (improved outgassing and getter/keepers) was far >better than those made in the 1940s, bulbs shrunk down to submini sizes >(Nuvistors, T3/4 bulbs, and the ceramic tubes), and the electrical >performance went thru the roof (transconductance). Many tubes started to >be made in Japan and elsewhere, and are very good performers, but with a >very bad reputation. > >Color TV service is very demanding on tubes (basically the only market >left in 1960), so the tubes were made tough. One must remember that some >of them, namely in the sweep circuits, were essentially transmitting tubes >with new bulbs and receiving numbers. > >> Mechanical shock and power cycling tends to ruin tubes faster. Generally >> tubes have good lifetimes and can be considered reliable (excluding the >> effects of heat on surrounding parts) . > >While mechanical shock certainly kills tubes, power cycling generally >does not. The filaments do not instantly get heated like a household >lightbulb - it is far more controlled and the filaments have time (and >room) to expand. In some of the older tubes, this was done with springs, >and on modern minis and Compactrons, the filament is allowed to slide >inside the cylinder of the cathode. Even some of the tubes rated for >mobile service with quick heating filaments to not really care much about >power cycles. > >> That is true, usually they get filiment failures and those are easy to >> spot. Power cycles tend to accelerate that. then again I had a tube >> organ (some 80+ tubes) and only had one failure in 8 years. > >Most tube failures are due to loss of emmission, rather than a burnout. >The most common failure is that the filament loses the outer coating >(generally thorium based), and emission drops to half, maybe zero. There >are tricks to rejuvenating filaments, but it is mostly magic and luck - >trying to get trapped thoria to diffuse to the surface. >Soft vacuums (gas in the tube) also is a common failure mode, as the >glass-metal seals just are not perfect things. Grid Emission is another failure mode less talked about but found more often than most repair folks realize. Takes a special tube tester or one of the very few dynamic mutual conductance tube testers marketed which will test for this (my Jackson 658A is an example). Caused by sputtering of cathode material onto the control grid as a result of overdriving of the tube or the heater voltage too high or an operating environment which allows the envelope temp to rise very high. Exhibited by unexpectedly odd or just plain poor performance of a circuit even though the tube checks perfectly okay on any tube tester that doesn't check for grid emission --or grid current as Jackson names it. Grid current increases spontaneously driving the tube out of cut-off or even harder if it operates normally out of cut-off curve and increases cathode current into a high range which accelerates the sputtering problem. I feel tubes in the early computers probably suffered from this as some were driven hard-on under normal circumstances, say, in a flip-flop circuit where the circuit was held idle in a particular state for long periods. Design of the circuit was likely conservative but over time grid emission problems developed. These machines normally ran 24x7. (Actually keeps this thread leaning more on-topic ;-) Folks who went through and tried to troublshoot a defective circuit and saw the tubes had checked "excellent" and didn't simply swap for a new ones would probably send themselves off on a tangent to find some other problem within the circuit. Anyway, Mr. Donzelli is, like myself, one of our rather quiet tube historians in the AWA and knows even more than I do on the subject. His clarifications above are a few of the ones I was fixing to post. Circuit designs of the tube-type Tek scopes are usually never such that tubes will drastically degrade in periods less than tens of years. Pretty conservative designs they made. Only in the last years of tube production ('70's - '80's) has quality been observed to degrade in the TV and radio type tubes. Far less quantities where made, because of drastically declining demand in the replacement market, which meant that testing criteria was lowered slightly to maintain a reasonable yield vs. cost to produce them. Now, only a handful of the hundreds of types of tubes are made anymore -mostly in Russia, Hungary, Yugoslavia and China and are aimed toward the audio market or high power radio/TV/military transmitters. > >Going back into hiding... Nice to see you again ;-) > >William Donzelli >aw288@osfn.org Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From at258 at osfn.org Sun Dec 5 22:12:48 1999 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991205212031.00ab9910@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: One vistor mentioned they just scrapped two old Sperry Univacs becsue they didn't know anyone who would want them.... On Sun, 5 Dec 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: > Upon the date 02:16 PM 12/5/99 -0500, John B said something like: > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Allison J Parent > -- snip -- > >>???? Why? The scope is an enclosed system that would be hard pressed to > >>emit high voltages back into the system it's hooked to. It's not like the > >>HP9100 in that respect. For the RM503 to do that the HV lead would have to > >>fall on one of the input lines! As I remember the series 8 Display scopes > >>were driven off a pair of D/As and some single bit output to blank the > >>beam. If you have something different I'd like to hear about that. > > I agree with Allison. Without knowing exactly the mods done by DEC that you > mention below, I'm still assuming the output of the D/As is connected right > into the SO-239 style front panel input connectors. In that case, the input > circuitry is isolated from any HV. The inputs go directly to the vertical > and horizontal amplifier tube grids (the 6DJ8's) after passing thru their > respective attenuator switch assemblies. > > > > >Three D/As. 1 12 bit for x, 1 12 bit for y, and 1 3 bit for intensity. When > >the transformer went in this RM503 it raised the regular voltages throughout > >the scope to 500+ volts... in some places over 1000. That was present right > > Ouch. I hope bypass capacitors and some coupling caps haven't had their > dielectric damaged. Most of the ceramic caps and poly caps have ratings of > 500 and 600 volts DC respectively and 1KV is pushing or exceeding their > surge voltage rating. > > >through to the input. I am protecting the D/A converters as I don't need the > >PDPs taking major beatings in the future. All the supplies inside the scope > >(-100,100,250,85,-3000 were going nuts). The other RM503 I have has the same > >problem. I am going to put an isolation transformer on every RM503,RM560 > >scope I get to solve the problem ahead of time. > > The other one has same problem? Interesting coincidence or possibly a > common failure mode of this scope. I *was* going to put a benchtop style > 503 on my 'hunt for' list as it looks to be an excellent X-Y scope for my > bench but I'll do some further thinking on that I guess. > > > > >The 8 Display controllers have the intensity option :-) (for spacewars of > >course). The AX08 (XR option) and the 34D (standard) had a 3 bit intensity > >D/A output for the scope. The RM503s were modified by DEC for intensity > >control. > > That manual you said you have, is it from DEC or Tek? I'm curious about the > mods. If you have a vanilla Tek manual like I have you can see that there > are a pair of binding posts on the back of the unit which may be labeled > "CRT GRID" and "GND." The GRID connection goes directly to the CRT grid > through a 0.001 mfd capacitor. > > Now if DEC has done some fancy stuff to the 'scope by intrusively > interfacing the PDP8 display controller directly to the deflection > amplifier circuits in some manner then yes, I'd be leery of potential > damage to the PDP circuits. Same for the intensity modulation (aka Z-axis > modulation) circuit. > > Regards, Chris > -- -- > Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian > Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 6 00:24:37 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: HP stuff Message-ID: For the benefit of the various HP hunters, there will be an auction in San Diego on Saturday, Dec 11th at 10 AM. Site is at 9389 Dowdy Drive off Miramar Road. Inspection Thurs 2PM-8PM and Sat 8 AM until start of auction. Equipment is purportedly from Pacific Bell Concord CA facility. Over 30 HP 9000 controllers as well as Digital controllers and drives, Gandalf controllers ... Contact A-1 Auction Liquidators 858-689-2324 Voice 858-689-2334 Fax - don From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Dec 6 00:32:21 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Clarification Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991205223221.00952b50@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Hi, Dave and the list, It occurred to me tonight that my comments to the list regarding the moron posting some old PC as a mainframe on E-bay could have been misinterpreted where AOL was concerned. When I mentioned that the guy's posting from an AOL address 'wasn't likely to help,' I was merely referring to the popular stereotype that many techies I've met seem to have regarding AOL users. This stereotype holds that most AOL users have no clue about how computers, or any type of electronics, do what they do, can barely find the power switch unassisted, and that they wouldn't know a mainframe from a toaster oven. My comments were in reference to the fact that anyone even the slightest bit hardware-literate would likely be suspicious of the auction because it was posted using an AOL contact address. Now, my own view is that this stereotype is a big bunch of meadow muffins. You are living proof of that. AOL may not be my provider of choice, but that doesn't mean that others will see it that way. I try not to make a judgment call one way or another until I've actually seen free-form questions or writings from the user in question. Translation: No offense meant. I was merely making an observation based on popular stereotypes. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From enrico.badella at softstar.it Mon Dec 6 02:10:30 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Adding 4116 to memory board was This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ References: Message-ID: <384B6F76.71E113D5@softstar.it> Tony Duell wrote: > > > Regarding 4116 RAMS, I have a couple of M7891 64KW boards and lots of > > 4116 RAMS. I would like to try bring it to 128KW by soldering in the > > missing chips. At the moment I have added sockets for all this missing chips > > including the 74LS240. The only missing things are the resistor packs > > I don't have any info, the label on the package is simply 13-15679-0 037. > > Can anybody tell me what I can use to replace them. I would also need to > > I've probably got the docs somewhere, but I can guess at what resistors > to use... 33 Ohm ones > > If they're SIL packages, then they're connected 1-2, 3-4, etc. 4 (or > maybe 5 if it's 10 pin SIL) resistors. Thanks Tony, The are SIL. If you come up with the docs please email me, otherwise I'll just have to pull one out and measure it. e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From enrico.badella at softstar.it Mon Dec 6 02:15:24 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Adding 4116 to memory board was This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ References: <3.0.1.16.19991204211252.50976598@mailhost.intellistar.net> <384A6DC4.EE067436@softstar.it> <384A9ACA.CCE1527B@arrl.net> Message-ID: <384B709C.9E66BFB6@softstar.it> Nick Oliviero wrote: > > > > Enrico Badella wrote: > > > I would like to try bring it to 128KW by soldering in the > > missing chips. At the moment I have added sockets for all this missing chips > > Just to share my own experience with adding sockets to unibus boards, we found > that there was a clearance problem with adjacent boards even though lo-profile > sockets were used. If this is your own system and no one else will touch it > you'll be ok. There are 16 'pads' here, only two of which use DEC equipment; > with over 30 techs, and board swapping is the norm. We had too many instances > where the socketed chip was actually pulled out of socket while inserting the > board. I ended up removing all the sockets. Didn't think of that problem 8-( but at the same time my 4116 are theoretically new but have been stored for years so their exact condition is unknown. e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From enrico.badella at softstar.it Mon Dec 6 02:19:49 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: V4.7 and VMS vs MicroVMS References: <991205124056.21e002fa@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <384B71A5.3DD15EFD@softstar.it> CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > > >I was going thru some drives and tapes yesterday while trying to > >resurrect my MVII and came across a v4.7 distribution I din't know I > >had. This leads me to ask, one, if the person looking for same a few > >days back (Enrico?) found one. And a second, stupid question. Stupid It's me! yes! > > In the late V4 days, there were two kinds of VMS distribution kits: > "full VMS", as you would install on a 11/730, 11/750, or 11/780, or > 8600, or..., and there was "MicroVMS", which is what you put on your > Microvax I or II. > > "MicroVMS" distribution kits were on huge stacks of floppies (RX50 or RX33 > depending on what flavor you needed) and TK50 carts. > > MicroVMS is a "trimmed-down" VMS distribution, with the parts that > aren't necessary (like Big-VAX support) or aren't usable on a Microvax > (like the RSX-compatibility mode stuff) taken out. My 4.7 has the RSX-compatibility mode stuff albeit incomplete. When I try to start VAX11RSX it complains that it cannot find something. Don't have the machine here so I don't remember the exact error message. e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From go at ao.com Mon Dec 6 03:03:40 1999 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Adopt a scrapper and paper tape punches. In-Reply-To: <0.47af4ac1.257b7bf5@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991206000711.03a83480@ao.com> At 03:27 AM 12/5/99 -0500, Innfogra@aol.com wrote: ... snip >The best answer is to make friends with a scrapper. Anyone who will pay twice >the scrap value consistently will be a welcome customer. In the long run you >may get systems set aside for you to look at. Ask for particular brands or >items but don't become a pest. They need to know what you are looking for. >Check on a regular basis. Don't ask them to call you unless you are willing >to offer significant money. They are busy and you are not a major part of >their business. Be prepared for some educating. I attempted such a thing at a local scrap yard here in Oregon and it was pretty good at first. My interest at the time was in high-vacuum stuff (large stainless tubing, couplings, valves, mass-flow controllers, etc.) which generally have little value in the surplus market unless they are "new" surplus. At first prices were good (slightly above scrap.) But occasionally things would show up (like valve controllers or vacuum gauges) and I'd "bid" on these items. It became obvious that the owner was starting to smell money as the prices started going up. Eventually he confided in me that he really wanted to get about 50% of the list value of a piece of equipment (based upon his catalog "database.") Bear in mind this old gear, in many cases, had been left out in the rain for several days (or weeks) or had sometimes been decommissioned by removing key components (such as sensors.) Needless to say, I (and others) stopped buying - and guess what? The stuff is getting scrapped again. Basically I'm venting here - it was a very frustrating experience. And it was more frustrating as there are FEW such places here in Oregon (at least to my knowledge.) On the other hand, there was Paxton . Always fair and I got some good deals. And what fun to prowl his warehouses... (Thanks, Paxton.) Just putting in a shameless plug. However, I basically agree with Paxton. I'm giving my local dealer a few more months and I'll go back. It may be possible to start over and create the relationship Paxton suggests. And he's right about instructions. Give the dealer simple rules and DO NOT expect them to call. You must poll often and learn the schedules on when stuff arrives. My local guy hauls the big stuff in twice a week (last I heard) and if you are there soon after it arrives (and before the "disassemblers" get at it) better deals can be made. -Gary From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 6 02:42:27 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at Dec 5, 99 03:37:16 pm Message-ID: >> The tube newsgroup recently has been talking about buying old scopes just >> to harvest the tubes. When you get a good look at what good quality tubes > >Is it just me, or is this as distasteful as scrapping classic computers >for gold? Old 'scopes have a perfectly good use already -- to display >waveforms I have a Dumont 304a I tried to get $10 for without success. Pulling the tubes will increase the value nicely. Its just like the 1130, if nobody is willing to pay some premium over the value of the gold, then nobody wants it very much. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 6 02:55:47 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback In-Reply-To: <001c01bf3f88$5806b540$fa3e65cc@default> Message-ID: >This guy did 13 million pounds last year. I am sure he knows how much $$$ in >metal is in ever mini/mainframe/super computer on the planet.. He even knows >the contents for Apple IIcs [don't laugh.. he had a skid full of them] and >IBM PS/2 XXX series. The price of everything, the value of nothing. Here is what I have learned roughly from listening etc. Breakage, what it sounds like the lowest grade general scrap, 2 to 4 cents/lb Cables with copper inside, power cords, data cords, etc. 6 to 8 cents/lb Old PC chassis that have some usefull parts, drives etc., but maybe no cpu or memory chips. 8 cents/lb Just the circuit boards, 25 to 35 cents/lb Aluminum that a magnet isn't attracted to. 35 cents/lb Untested or bad monitors 14" about $3 to $5 15" 17" 19" More, but it isn't clear how much, as testing/repair becomes more worthwhile. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 6 02:58:44 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) In-Reply-To: References: <00df01bf3f4b$89c13160$fa3e65cc@default> Message-ID: >Where can you find out what the gold/aluminum/steel value of a >computer at? The obvious solution is to know what a scrapper is >willing to pay, and add $10 to your bid. A scrapper will never >spend more to buy something than it is worth, a collector will. Not a good assumption. A scrapper might be willing to spend whatever it took to make you never get a winning bid and just go away. From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Mon Dec 6 05:02:00 1999 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Nostalgic note [Was: Re: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same?] In-Reply-To: "Charles P. Hobbs"'s message of "Fri, 3 Dec 1999 15:56:27 -0800 (PST)" References: Message-ID: I can't help commenting on this: I was a big Amiga computers fan, I used them for a long time, they felt like an interersing alternative to the PC/DOS/Windows hegemony. I believed they had a superior technological background. But as the years went by, I had to recognize that it was no longer a fact, and that the PC/Linux combination advanced at a much higher rate, than the Amiga, that basically remained still, both in hardware and software terms. I can't help feeling nostalgic for reading posts about Amiga computers in this Classical Computers mailing list... Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and MSc Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From flo at rdel.co.uk Mon Dec 6 05:01:54 1999 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: OT: C, Unix hoax [was: Re: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen] References: <199912040425.UAA10955@saul5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <384B97A2.EC0A2CF2@rdel.co.uk> Derek Peschel wrote: > There is an April Fool's post in which K&R admit UNIX was a hoax: > > We stopped when we got a clean compile on the following syntax: > > for(;P("\n"),R-;P("|"))for(e=C;e-;P("_"+(*u++/8)%2))P("| "+(*u/4)%2); > > To think that modern programmers would try to use a language that > allowed such a statement was beyond our comprehension! We actually > thought of selling this to the Soviets to set their computer science > progress back 20 or more years. I've wondered about that line for ages. For starters, it has several typos. I think the corrected version is: for(;P("\n"),R--;P("|"))for(e=C;e--;P("_ "+(*u++/8)%2))P("| "+(*u/4)%2); (ie. decrement operator inserted twice, and the underscore needs a space after it) As this code does something useful, I can't imagine anyone writing it just for the sake of a joke, so does anyone know where it came from? From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 6 09:43:34 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) References: Message-ID: <99120610440702.07778@vault.neurotica.com> On Mon, 06 Dec 1999, Mike Ford wrote: >>Where can you find out what the gold/aluminum/steel value of a >>computer at? The obvious solution is to know what a scrapper is >>willing to pay, and add $10 to your bid. A scrapper will never >>spend more to buy something than it is worth, a collector will. > >Not a good assumption. A scrapper might be willing to spend whatever it >took to make you never get a winning bid and just go away. I have run into this specific issue a couple of times. It does indeed happen. -Dave McGuire From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 6 09:45:47 1999 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback Message-ID: <19991206154547.20410.qmail@hotmail.com> Damn, maybe I shouldn't be tossing crud like that busted VR290 in the dumpster... All of those 14" monitors are worth 3 to 5 bucks? Heck, I've probably tossed 20+ of them this year... As I write this the dumpster by my work contains 2 dead terminals, a dead VR290, and Dell guts.. the MicroVAX 3100 may, unfortunately, be joining them soon, since it won't boot and all I get is a ~ from the console :( But seriously, would it be worthwhile to save all the circut boards, monitors, etc. which I currently toss in the dumpster? I already have a bunch of automotive scrap that I know is worthwhile (i.e. engine blocks, transmissions, etc.) but is that computer junk worth it? Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From cfandt at netsync.net Mon Dec 6 09:59:06 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) In-Reply-To: References: <00df01bf3f4b$89c13160$fa3e65cc@default> Message-ID: <4.1.19991206105325.00a9c100@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 12:58 AM 12/6/99 -0800, Mike Ford said something like: >>Where can you find out what the gold/aluminum/steel value of a >>computer at? The obvious solution is to know what a scrapper is >>willing to pay, and add $10 to your bid. A scrapper will never >>spend more to buy something than it is worth, a collector will. > >Not a good assumption. A scrapper might be willing to spend whatever it >took to make you never get a winning bid and just go away. Yes, an appropriate correlation is that if they can crush computers (before shredding the carcass) then they can cru$h you. Their profits drop corresponding with losses of bids so they're going to spend extra in the short term to protect their profits in the long term. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 6 10:40:56 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) Message-ID: <002401bf4008$abb2c8c0$0400c0a8@winbook> It's pretty obvious, then, isn't it, that the place to be is on their side rather than bidding against them? Even if you have to pay a little more or work a little more, it's better to be in a position to call the guy up on a free morning and ask whether he's got anything new that you'd like to look at, isn't it? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Christian Fandt To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 9:07 AM Subject: Re: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) >Upon the date 12:58 AM 12/6/99 -0800, Mike Ford said something like: >>>Where can you find out what the gold/aluminum/steel value of a >>>computer at? The obvious solution is to know what a scrapper is >>>willing to pay, and add $10 to your bid. A scrapper will never >>>spend more to buy something than it is worth, a collector will. >> >>Not a good assumption. A scrapper might be willing to spend whatever it >>took to make you never get a winning bid and just go away. > >Yes, an appropriate correlation is that if they can crush computers (before >shredding the carcass) then they can cru$h you. > >Their profits drop corresponding with losses of bids so they're going to >spend extra in the short term to protect their profits in the long term. > >Regards, Chris >-- -- >Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net > Member of Antique Wireless Association > URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 6 11:20:34 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback In-Reply-To: <19991206154547.20410.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: > 3100 may, unfortunately, be joining them soon, since it won't boot and all I > get is a ~ from the console :( But seriously, would it be worthwhile to save getting a ~ from a 3100 often suggests your doing something wrong. I bet you cable is wrong or maybe the internal line fuse is open. If I were closer I'd say bring it around and I'd look at it. Allison From hofer at wgh.ch Mon Dec 6 18:21:03 1999 From: hofer at wgh.ch (Jean-Pierre Hofer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: V.23 protocol Message-ID: <199912061723.SAA14625@dns.cyberlink.ch> Hello, I am looking for specifications of the old V.23 protocol, or general informations about this. Would someone know some hints ? Thanks. -- J.-P. Hofer hofer@wgh.ch __________________________________________________________________ Jean-Pierre Hofer Telephone : + 41 1 251 07 31 Ingenieur-conseil Case postale 3126 E-mail : hofer@wgh.ch CH - 8021 Zuerich __________________________________________________________________ From rickb at bensene.com Mon Dec 6 12:38:22 1999 From: rickb at bensene.com (Rick Bensene) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: DEC LA-180 and PDP8e/LC8-E In-Reply-To: <199912061723.SAA14625@dns.cyberlink.ch> Message-ID: Hello, all, I recently got my hands on a classic DEC LA-180 RO (receive only) printer. It's a free-standing beast, with its own pedastal that the electronics are in. The electronics that make it work are all TTL, with a few MOS ROMs for character generator, and two 2101 RAMs for buffer storage. There's a second board, that connects to the main electronics board via a ribbon cable. This board has an old AY5-1013 UART chip, and a bunch more TTL on it, and appears to be a serial interface. The serial board appears to 'talk' to the rest of the electronics via a basic 8-bit parallel port with strobe and some status signals. The serial card has a cable coming off of it that goes to a DB-25 connector that is affixed to the bottom panel of the pedastal. I want to try to connect this up to my PDP8/e system as print device. I have an M8329 LC8-E Decwriter Control board for the PDP8/e. The PDP8/e/f/m External Bus Options Maintenance Manual says that the LC8-E module is intended to connect up a DEC LA-30 decwriter. The LA-30 seems to be a printing terminal, with a keyboard and printer. The LA-180 I have is a print-only device, with no keyboard. The LC8-E card has a Berg connector that is identical to the Berg connector on the printer electronics board of the LA-180. I'm wondering if the 'parallel' interface of the LA-180 is compatible with the LC8-E card, and all I need to do is disconnect the serial card from the main electronics in the LA-180, and connect the printer up by stringing a ribbon cable between the LA-180 and the LC8-E card. I don't have printsets for the LC8-E card, so I don't know the pinout of the connector for the printer, nor do I have any information at all on the LA-180 in terms of the 'parallel' port interface of the printer. Obviously, I'm not going to just plug it in and see what happens :-) Anyone out there know if this will work? If so, is a special cable needed, or will a 'straight through' cable work? Any help would be very much appreciated. Thanks, Rick Bensene The Old Calculators Web Museum http://www.geocities.com/oldcalculators From elvey at hal.com Mon Dec 6 12:49:48 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199912061849.KAA11864@civic.hal.com> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > Can anyone tell me more about what this is? > > I believe it might me a development system for the 8008 or the 8080 > (Intallec 8i IIRC). > > -tony Hi As far as I remember, the Intellec 8 was for 8008's I'm reasonably sure that the 8080 were only in the MDS800's. I have an old Intel catalog that has these in it, someplace, but I don't seem to be able to locate it right now. The 8048 was a much later product. It came out just before the Series II was the main development tool for Intel parts. They did have a SDK for 8048's. It was like older SBC in that it had LED's, keypad and programmer socket on a single PC board. Dwight From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 6 13:10:25 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? Message-ID: <004201bf401d$8db45c20$0400c0a8@winbook> From jallain at databaseamerica.com Mon Dec 6 13:10:13 1999 From: jallain at databaseamerica.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: The flipside of: 'Everyone here should read this..' I saw everything In-Reply-To: <001701bf3d2c$c82fe2a0$ea49d1d8@default> Message-ID: <000001bf401d$868b2b40$0e0301ac@dba00802.databaseamerica.com> I really have to rave about this place: Quickware Engineering & Design, 225 Riverview Ave, Newton, MA, 02466-1358 W: 617-964-5900, FAX: 617-964-5951 800-237-1185 for fast PDP-11's. The guy I saw apparently has been a DEC HW wiz since High school. The office is medium large, room for perhaps 30 employees and. . . They are LOADED with DEC equipment. I saw so much that I sort of started blanking out, but here's what I remember. Something like ten or twenty complete 11/XX based systems. The 11/60 made it to someoone in Florida. RA?-81's: many, RD-54's: six or more, other disks: dozens. LA120's: two? VT-2X & 3X: maybe 5. A Tektronix 4010. Total racks with things in them: maybe 8 in one room and 6 each in two other rooms. I really think if you are within three or four hours from this place that you should plan to visit. The sad part of the story is that its "time indefinite" as to when they'll just call the scrappers. Don't miss your chance. I don't have stock in the place, I'm just amazed to see 1975-1988 era equipment clean and running. John A. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 6 15:14:38 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <004201bf401d$8db45c20$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991206151438.231f74d2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Dick, There's a picture of one at "http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=208501725". Joe At 12:10 PM 12/6/99 -0700, you wrote: >>From what I remember, there was an Intellec-8 or some similarly named >product which was a smallish desktop box with some switches/lights and an >EPROM programmer socket on the right side of the front panel (not >front-panel as in an Altair or such) I still have some of the old (1976-77) >Intel 8048 doc's and I think the box I'm remembering is on the front of one >of them or maybe promoted in some way inside it. I never owned one, but I >have seen a few of them, though it's been a really long time. > >Dick > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dwight Elvey >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 11:56 AM >Subject: Re: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? > > >>ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi, >>> > >>> > Can anyone tell me more about what this is? >>> >>> I believe it might me a development system for the 8008 or the 8080 >>> (Intallec 8i IIRC). >>> >>> -tony >> >>Hi >> As far as I remember, the Intellec 8 was for 8008's >>I'm reasonably sure that the 8080 were only in the >>MDS800's. I have an old Intel catalog that has these >>in it, someplace, but I don't seem to be able to locate >>it right now. >> The 8048 was a much later product. It came out just before >>the Series II was the main development tool for Intel >>parts. They did have a SDK for 8048's. It was like >>older SBC in that it had LED's, keypad and programmer >>socket on a single PC board. >>Dwight >> > > From arfonrg at texas.net Mon Dec 6 13:38:55 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Any GRID experts out there? In-Reply-To: <005101bf3e71$c12c5d80$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991206133855.035712e0@207.207.0.212> It sounds like my GRiD 1530 display... Made by hitachi... two slider pots (on the sides)... Monochrome... Dose it have about a 10.5" (diagonal) display area??? At 09:08 AM 12/4/1999 -0700, you wrote: >This thing has got to be at least 10 years old, but, here goes . . . I was >scrounging through some boxes in my basement this morning . . . and found a >flat-panel display module, probably monochrome, with the label LM758CXAGNR >and the HITACHI brand name emblazoned on it. It has a couple of slide pots >hanging from it, each bearing the name GRID in its silkscreen. > >Is any of you folks familiar enough with devices of this type or familar >enough with GRID to steer me onto some information about how one might use >this display panel for something useful? > >thanx > >Dick > > > ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From dylanb at sympatico.ca Mon Dec 6 12:31:47 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Got the oscilloscope interface running on the 8/S! Message-ID: <001001bf4018$278b5a20$ee3e65cc@default> It's rather comical.. poor thing.. The 8/s wasn't exactly a super computer but it is having a little difficulty printing a line of 32 characters (5X7 bits). I can read the text but by the time it finishes drawing the end of the line, the first few characters start disappearing. I will try and post some pictures over the next couple of days. It is pretty cool to see this unit draw on an oscilloscope. I will try some video games (some were written for the 8/s) and post some pictures of that as well. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 4:09 AM Subject: Re: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! >>> The tube newsgroup recently has been talking about buying old scopes just >>> to harvest the tubes. When you get a good look at what good quality tubes >> >>Is it just me, or is this as distasteful as scrapping classic computers >>for gold? Old 'scopes have a perfectly good use already -- to display >>waveforms > >I have a Dumont 304a I tried to get $10 for without success. Pulling the >tubes will increase the value nicely. Its just like the 1130, if nobody is >willing to pay some premium over the value of the gold, then nobody wants >it very much. > > > From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 6 13:11:55 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: DEC LA-180 and PDP8e/LC8-E In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19991206191155.23970.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I recently got my hands on a classic DEC LA-180 RO (receive > only) printer. It's a free-standing beast, with its own pedastal > that the electronics are in. [...] > I want to try to connect this up to my PDP8/e system as print device. I have > an M8329 LC8-E Decwriter Control board for the PDP8/e. The PDP8/e/f/m > External Bus Options Maintenance Manual > says that the LC8-E module is intended to connect up a DEC LA-30 > decwriter. The LA-30 seems to be a printing terminal, with > a keyboard and printer. The LA-180 I have is a print-only > device, with no keyboard. You need a KL8-E or the like, not an LC8-E. The LC8-E is a parallel interface, and the LA180 is a serial device. From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Mon Dec 6 13:40:40 1999 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. Message-ID: <199912061940.OAA04789@swordfin.cs.unc.edu> I've got a line on an NCR tower in Miami FL. If you are interested in picking up or paying shipping, let me know. Please e-mail to me directly, as I've temporarily unsubscribed (can't handle the volume). Cheers, Bill. From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Mon Dec 6 13:47:52 1999 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: DecMate III problem Message-ID: <199912061947.OAA04824@swordfin.cs.unc.edu> While I'm at it... I've got a DecMate III that doesn't want to play. On power up, it displays "32" at the center of the screen. I've got WPS diskettes, and if they are in the disk drive it seems to glance at them, but still just shows "32" on the screen. If I unplug the keyboard and boot, then it shows "48". Sounds to me like a bitmask; missing keyboard is the "16" bit. Can anyone tell me what the "32" means? If it is a bitmask, can you also tell the meanings of the other bits? Please cc: the answer directly to me, as I've temporarily unsubscribed. Thanks! Bill. From elvey at hal.com Mon Dec 6 14:03:20 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991206151438.231f74d2@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199912062003.MAA12794@civic.hal.com> Joe wrote: > Dick, > > There's a picture of one at > "http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=208501725". > > Joe I must be mistaken. It says it has a 8080A so I guess that it came with both 8080 and 8008. The programmer did 1702's or 2708's. These were the ones used at that time. I would suspect that the board inside would have the prom type labled as this was common of the Intel boards. I wonder how much RAM the unit, on eBay, has in it? Dwight From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 6 12:34:03 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: <002c01bf3f92$743d1b00$fa3e65cc@default> from "John B" at Dec 5, 99 09:34:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2463 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991206/3ba1e0ed/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 6 12:43:24 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991205223331.00ac3160@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Dec 5, 99 11:12:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1798 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991206/0cfe87a3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 6 13:08:37 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Dec 6, 99 00:42:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 995 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991206/a214560d/attachment.ksh From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Dec 6 14:08:54 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: documentation In-Reply-To: <199912030340.VAA05946@thufir.cs.umn.edu> from Lawrence LeMay at "Dec 2, 1999 09:40:45 pm" Message-ID: <199912062008.UAA09611@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > > Also, I might be able to get some old HP documentation. 9000 series 200/300 > if i recall (and primarily for 200). These are the old HP's with 5.25" > floppy drives that we had back in the early 80's in the computer science > department. The problem is, there is a lot of this HP doc, but its all > in the sub-basement, and its rather difficult to justify getting a key > to gain access to the sub-basement. There is a chance I will get getting the > key once more, because we're trying to have a new phone line pulled through > conduit down there. > It appears that the HP documentation is for HP 9000 series 300, HP-UX version 5.2 and some contain the installation tape for updating (which it says can also be used as an installation tape). The manuals are the systems administration manuals, a bunch of starbase graphics manuals, text editing manuals, etc. No languages so far. -Lawrence LeMay From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 6 14:13:17 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <199912061849.KAA11864@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at Dec 6, 99 10:49:48 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 542 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991206/4ee33f90/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 6 14:29:02 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback In-Reply-To: <19991206154547.20410.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >Damn, maybe I shouldn't be tossing crud like that busted VR290 in the >dumpster... All of those 14" monitors are worth 3 to 5 bucks? Heck, I've >probably tossed 20+ of them this year... As I write this the dumpster by my >work contains 2 dead terminals, a dead VR290, and Dell guts.. the MicroVAX >3100 may, unfortunately, be joining them soon, since it won't boot and all I >get is a ~ from the console :( But seriously, would it be worthwhile to save >all the circut boards, monitors, etc. which I currently toss in the >dumpster? I already have a bunch of automotive scrap that I know is >worthwhile (i.e. engine blocks, transmissions, etc.) but is that computer >junk worth it? Generally yes, monitors need to 'look' good, no scratches or burnin on the tube, and in most cases old terminals are not wanted. The MicroVAX 3100 is full of goodies and gold. The other part is normal, you need to either take to a salvage place that does the recovery, or have enough of a load to make one of the "runner" type guys come and get it. The former is a better idea. Don't be surprized if they try to low ball you, but don't accept anything for a one load deal you would not be happy to repeat. BTW you might want to check with your trash company, many places do NOT allow a monitor or other large tube device into a landfill. If they find one, and it still has your property tag on it, you could get a nasty fine. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 6 14:44:45 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:08 2005 Subject: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) In-Reply-To: <002401bf4008$abb2c8c0$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: >It's pretty obvious, then, isn't it, that the place to be is on their side >rather than bidding against them? Even if you have to pay a little more or >work a little more, it's better to be in a position to call the guy up on a >free morning and ask whether he's got anything new that you'd like to look >at, isn't it? This is poker, and either you are a player with them, or a sucker (geek etc.). My goal in life is not to be this guys Monday morning joke. I bid against and cut deals with my suppliers all the time. I have NO illusion that they respect me, but now they know that I am totally nuts and that I enjoy running up their bids if they annoy me. OTOH they also know that I am happy to just get even, I don't carry the burden of big grudges, and generally am not a nasty person, just doing business like they are, even if my "business" makes no sense to them. Number one item I did have to learn is to keep my mouth shut. Don't talk about other peoples deals, unless you mean business. Never talk about what somebody paid for or sold an item for, and generally don't act too stupid (ie keep mouth shut). Never let them catch you snooping, ie writing down names from property tags, do that in the car. ;) Never point out any "big" mistakes they are making. From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 6 15:28:18 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Any GRID experts out there? Message-ID: <002501bf4030$d0c14c40$0400c0a8@winbook> Yes, it's about that size. (One can interpret the "size" in quite a number of ways.) I bought this thing to use as a display for a test intstrument I was developing as a mental masturbation exercise, but quickly went back to a CRT after running into trouble getting any kind of definitive interface spec. I might still use it for something some day if the data comes my way, but I'm really not looking for more projects. Have you got any interface specifications for this beastie, or do you know where they might be available? Dick -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 12:42 PM Subject: Re: Any GRID experts out there? >It sounds like my GRiD 1530 display... Made by hitachi... two slider pots >(on the sides)... Monochrome... Dose it have about a 10.5" (diagonal) >display area??? > >At 09:08 AM 12/4/1999 -0700, you wrote: >>This thing has got to be at least 10 years old, but, here goes . . . I was >>scrounging through some boxes in my basement this morning . . . and found a >>flat-panel display module, probably monochrome, with the label LM758CXAGNR >>and the HITACHI brand name emblazoned on it. It has a couple of slide pots >>hanging from it, each bearing the name GRID in its silkscreen. >> >>Is any of you folks familiar enough with devices of this type or familar >>enough with GRID to steer me onto some information about how one might use >>this display panel for something useful? >> >>thanx >> >>Dick >> >> >> >---------------------------------------- > Tired of Micro$oft??? > > Move up to a REAL OS... >######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # >#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## >####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### >###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### >##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### ># ###### > ("LINUX" for those of you > without fixed-width fonts) >---------------------------------------- >Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com > >Slackware Mailing List: >http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 6 15:26:18 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Tube experts! - I T WORKS! In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at Dec 6, 99 00:42:27 am Message-ID: >> >Is it just me, or is this as distasteful as scrapping classic computers >> >for gold? Old 'scopes have a perfectly good use already -- to display >> >waveforms >> >> I have a Dumont 304a I tried to get $10 for without success. Pulling the >> tubes will increase the value nicely. Its just like the 1130, if nobody is >> willing to pay some premium over the value of the gold, then nobody wants >> it very much. > >Hmm... This really distinguishes people who care about profit from >hobbyists like myself who don't. I used the Dumont and its lost brother for a decade or so, stored it for more than a decade in a clean dry place, moved it from there to my garage where I now step over every day. I suggests one doesn't know their true moral position until faced with a boundary, ie the storage space is FULL, something must go so that others may enter. This scope must go, whether it goes intact or in pieces, is not an ethical delemma. Its point in history is well preserved, and its practicality as a scope very limited. The Friden 8710 postal scale must go, most likely as aluminum. My garage is a halfway house, not a retirement village. From sipke at wxs.nl Mon Dec 6 15:29:01 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? References: <3.0.1.16.19991204122435.229777f0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <384C2A9D.74ABE43A@wxs.nl> I've got a inelco (Intel) datasheet book on 8008, 4040, & 8080 stuff and I'll be posting some of these sheets on my webpage soon. I'll include the stuff on the Intellec 8 type systems Sipke de Wal buzzy scanning the stuff! Joe wrote: > > Hi, > > Can anyone tell me more about what this is? > > Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 6 15:29:57 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: DEC LA-180 and PDP8e/LC8-E In-Reply-To: from "Rick Bensene" at Dec 6, 99 10:38:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1889 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991206/25696973/attachment.ksh From arfonrg at texas.net Mon Dec 6 15:41:19 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Any GRID experts out there? In-Reply-To: <002501bf4030$d0c14c40$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991206154119.009b2cc0@207.207.0.212> >I bought this thing to use as a display for a test intstrument I was >developing as a mental masturbation exercise, but quickly went back to a CRT >after running into trouble getting any kind of definitive interface spec. I >might still use it for something some day if the data comes my way, but I'm >really not looking for more projects. > >Have you got any interface specifications for this beastie, or do you know >where they might be available? I contacted several offices of Hitachi because at the time, I thought my GRiD was irrepairable. I can tell you that after spending many corporate dollars (for my personal project (Thanks, LiteOn!)), if Hitachi has specs on that beastie, they are not releasing them. I contacted the division that handles those displays and though I called them repeatedly, they never returned any of my calls. If you can ever find the spec.s, I would sure like a copy! A ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 6 16:03:19 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Any GRID experts out there? Message-ID: <001401bf4035$b58ca140$0400c0a8@winbook> I went through the same exercise after finding that their connector was different from the "standard" dot martix displays they listed, or some other obvious deviation from the norm. I got nowhere. I checked with GRID, since they were still alive then, and, likewise, got nowhere. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 2:44 PM Subject: Re: Any GRID experts out there? >>I bought this thing to use as a display for a test intstrument I was >>developing as a mental masturbation exercise, but quickly went back to a CRT >>after running into trouble getting any kind of definitive interface spec. I >>might still use it for something some day if the data comes my way, but I'm >>really not looking for more projects. >> >>Have you got any interface specifications for this beastie, or do you know >>where they might be available? > > >I contacted several offices of Hitachi because at the time, I thought my >GRiD was irrepairable. I can tell you that after spending many corporate >dollars (for my personal project (Thanks, LiteOn!)), if Hitachi has specs >on that beastie, they are not releasing them. I contacted the division >that handles those displays and though I called them repeatedly, they never >returned any of my calls. > >If you can ever find the spec.s, I would sure like a copy! > >A >---------------------------------------- > Tired of Micro$oft??? > > Move up to a REAL OS... >######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # >#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## >####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### >###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### >##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### ># ###### > ("LINUX" for those of you > without fixed-width fonts) >---------------------------------------- >Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com > >Slackware Mailing List: >http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Dec 6 16:00:53 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: DEC LA-180 and PDP8e/LC8-E Message-ID: <19991206220053.8258.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Smith wrote: > > I recently got my hands on a classic DEC LA-180 RO... I didn't know the LA180 ever came with a keyboard. My knowledge of the LA180 is that it was badged "DECprinter I" and came with a 40-pin parallel interface. > You need a KL8-E or the like, not an LC8-E. The LC8-E is a parallel > interface, and the LA180 is a serial device. I have the OMNIBUS card for the LA180; I'd check the handle number, but I'm not where it is. It is most assuredly a parallel device. Perhaps you are thinking of the LA120? It was badged "DECwriter III". It _was_ serial, with a four-digit LED display by the keyboard for set-up and status info. I got my first LA180 because Newman Computer Exchange sent me a ticket for free shipping on my next order. I figured that an LA180 was the heaviest thing I would ever want from them. The printer came in handy a couple of years later when I was doing PDP-11 contract work in my basement - PDP-11/23, RLV11, LPV11 and a bunch of my old PDP-8 peripherals. Made my living for nearly two years off that stuff. Out-of-pocket expense in 1988: $300 for the PDP-11 (salvage from my day job), $100 for the RLV11 (used from a reseller). Very cost effective to me. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From arfonrg at texas.net Mon Dec 6 16:10:21 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Any GRID experts out there? In-Reply-To: <001401bf4035$b58ca140$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991206161021.035c6a00@207.207.0.212> Tandy would be a better source for the information than GRiD since the GRiD company is barely related to the old company. But, I tried Tandy also... No luck. You can probably order another screen from them but, forget getting information. I even bought the Technical Manuals on my 1530 and I must say they are pitiful!!! There's about three schematics in it (and they are just pin-outs for things like the SERIAL PORTS! Nothing useful.) If I needed to know which bit to set in the drive controller to make it catch fire, I would be in business but, hardware-wise the tech. manuals are useless. My suggestion, find somone with a broken GRiD and sell/give it to them. Try the GRiD board: http://www.pd.com/gbmain.html >I went through the same exercise after finding that their connector was >different from the "standard" dot martix displays they listed, or some other >obvious deviation from the norm. I got nowhere. I checked with GRID, since >they were still alive then, and, likewise, got nowhere. >>I contacted several offices of Hitachi because at the time, I thought my >>GRiD was irrepairable. I can tell you that after spending many corporate >>dollars (for my personal project (Thanks, LiteOn!)), if Hitachi has specs >>on that beastie, they are not releasing them. I contacted the division >>that handles those displays and though I called them repeatedly, they never >>returned any of my calls. >> >>If you can ever find the spec.s, I would sure like a copy! ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 6 15:44:41 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: DEC LA-180 and PDP8e/LC8-E In-Reply-To: <19991206220053.8258.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> (message from Ethan Dicks on Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:00:53 -0800 (PST)) References: <19991206220053.8258.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <19991206214441.25156.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I have the OMNIBUS card for the LA180; I'd check the handle number, but I'm > not where it is. It is most assuredly a parallel device. Oh. All the LA180s I've seen were serial. I guess they must have offered both configurations. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Dec 6 16:14:54 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: DEC LA-180 and PDP8e/LC8-E Message-ID: <19991206221454.7820.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> --- Rick Bensene wrote: > Hello, all, > > I recently got my hands on a classic DEC LA-180 RO (receive > only) printer. > There's a second board, that connects to the main electronics > board via a ribbon cable. This board has an old AY5-1013 UART > chip, and a bunch more TTL on it, and appears to be a serial > interface. Ah. This paragraph wasn't copied in the other message I just replied to... I've never seen this option, but, with something like this in place, that explains the questions about serial. > I want to try to connect this up to my PDP8/e system as print device. > The LC8-E card has a Berg connector that is identical to the Berg > connector on the printer electronics board of the LA-180. Check which pins are in use. DEC used the 40-pin Berg connector in just about everything. > I'm wondering if the 'parallel' interface of the LA-180 is compatible > with the LC8-E card... It's a pretty simple interface. According to the 1978 Microcomputer Handbook, the parallel out on the DKC8AA can be used to drive an LA180 with two caveats: the data is inverted, and the IOP instructions are different. Electrically, though, they are compatible. It's little more than 8-bits, a couple of handshake lines and a couple of status lines. > ...I don't have printsets for the > LC8-E card, so I don't know the pinout of the connector for the > printer, nor do I have any information at all on the LA-180 in > terms of the 'parallel' port interface of the printer. I don't have any prints on my ONMIBUS LA180 parallel card, but I do have prints for the LA180 (and the DKC8AA) > Obviously, I'm not going to just plug it in and see what happens :-) If all is TTL, nothing *bad* should happen, but your caution is reasonable. > Anyone out there know if this will work? If so, is a special > cable needed, or will a 'straight through' cable work? *If* the LC8-E is the LA180 parallel interface, a straight cable is what you want. I'd check the handle number of my own card, but I can't do that until tomorrow night. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From dylanb at sympatico.ca Mon Dec 6 15:37:43 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. Message-ID: <005d01bf4032$21486bc0$ee3e65cc@default> -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 03, 1999 3:51 PM Subject: Re: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. >As with anything, the higher your are the more you see. > >To someone who just sits down in my office and sees the PDP-8/E sitting on >my shelf (sometimes running, sometimes not :-) it seems *impossible* to >find a PDP-8. Then when you start looking you find the fringes of the >"surplus" marketplace where things appear from time to time. Then you find Speaking of which.. it looks like I have some read trips before XMAS. I have a couple of PDP-8As, some 8es, (6 in all I think).. Only reason I am travelling rather than shipping is because every unit has 32K of core..hmmmmmm.core...., some with RK05s and the rest with RX01/2s.. These units are getting harder to find.. I am really working the scrappers and factories.... looks like I might not reach my goal of 120 PDP-8(s-plural) by next fall... but I am flying out to Mr. Gold on Wednesday/Thursday. BTW: Has anyone heard of a PDP-8/A500 ??? what is that? >the liquidators, then you find the scrappers. And then, in John's case, you >find one *huge* scrapper. > >The key is that now we know about them we may be able to save some stuff. > Things are looking good.. just a little slow to start. PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com >--Chuck > > From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Dec 6 17:05:53 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Any GRID experts out there? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991206161021.035c6a00@207.207.0.212> References: <001401bf4035$b58ca140$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991206180553.009bf330@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that Arfon Gryffydd may have mentioned these words: >Tandy would be a better source for the information than GRiD since the GRiD >company is barely related to the old company. >But, I tried Tandy also... No luck. Yea, BFS... (Big Friggin' Suprise ;-) AFAIR, the guy with the biggest brain re: GRiD's would be Uncle Roger [Roger Louis Sinasohn] - He was (is?) on this list - haven't seen a post from him in quite a while... He is still (I checked the sublists) on my Model 100/102/200 list, but I've not seen a post from him since early Sept. If you wish, you have my permission to ask your GRiD question there (I don't go nuts over off-topic stuff if it doesn't swamp the list w/info no-one else is interested in - so please put an OT: in the subject and ask for off-list replies unless you get a couple "Me-Too's". _If enough folks are interested in the OT stuff_ I don't have heartburn with replies to the list. As always, common sense is a Good Thing (TM) here...) It's open to outside posters, if you don't want to sub to the list, please mention that off-list replies are a must for you to see any responses. The address is m100@list.30below.com, to sub send a blank mail to m100-subscribe@list.30below.com and reply to the confirmation msg. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Dec 6 17:08:48 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. Message-ID: <19991206230848.21071.qmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> --- John B wrote: > BTW: Has anyone heard of a PDP-8/A500 ??? what is that? It happens to be the first model I ever laid hands on... KK8A, KM8A, DKC8AA (the standard -8/a stuff), 12-slot box (the 20-slot box was for stuff like the PDP-8/a 620). I am pretty sure (it's been a while) that the -8/a 500 has a core-capable power supply. Lower stuff, like the -8/a 320, could only take MOS memory (MS8C, et al.) I've only ever seen the 12-slot PDP-8/a boxes myself, but a couple of flavors of them. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 6 17:51:42 1999 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: <19991206235142.7447.qmail@hotmail.com> I am looking for the following items. (Get ready, this is going to be a pretty varied list!) ----Pictures of Computers---- Commodore Hyperion (looks like a Dynalogic Hyperion, & could be the same thing?) TI-99/7 (Proposed, but never released. May never have entered the prototype stage.) TI-99/4B (not a typo! See above comment.) Commodore PC-5 (Predecessor of the [in]famous PC-10 series, no other information known.) Commodore TOI (also known to be called the Commodore 8033 or the Color PET.) ----Software---- If somebody could provide me with cpoies of the following software, , e-mail me ASAP! SmoothTalker, from First Byte, for Macintosh (on an 800K disk only!) Elite for Commodore 64. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Mon Dec 6 18:15:32 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: DEC LA-180 and PDP8e/LC8-E In-Reply-To: <19991206220053.8258.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Dec 6, 1999 2: 0:53 pm" Message-ID: <199912070015.TAA11228@pechter.dyndns.org> > > > --- Eric Smith wrote: > > > I recently got my hands on a classic DEC LA-180 RO... > > I didn't know the LA180 ever came with a keyboard. My knowledge of the LA180 > is that it was badged "DECprinter I" and came with a 40-pin parallel interface. I didn't think it did. There was -- I think an LS-180 or LS120 or 180 which was kind of a serial LA180. Kind of like the LA36 with the accelerator option some third parties used to keep the machine in high speed catchup mode. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From dylanb at sympatico.ca Mon Dec 6 17:14:17 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) Message-ID: <009b01bf403f$9e881920$ee3e65cc@default> -----Original Message----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 7:16 PM Subject: Re: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) >It's pretty obvious, then, isn't it, that the place to be is on their side >rather than bidding against them? Even if you have to pay a little more or I wish that would work but *most* of them don't care if you are going to put down a few thousand on a mini. (notice the few thousand now)... They deal in volume and don't care what you are looking for.. well, at least the big guys. >work a little more, it's better to be in a position to call the guy up on a >free morning and ask whether he's got anything new that you'd like to look >at, isn't it? > This works with smaller scrappers but they rare;y get the juicy stuff. I like a scrapper that goes into an old factory and levels it. The big scrappers get cool toys all the time. >Dick >-----Original Message----- >From: Christian Fandt >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 9:07 AM >Subject: Re: Scrap value of machines (was Re: ebay feedback) > > >>Upon the date 12:58 AM 12/6/99 -0800, Mike Ford said something like: >>>>Where can you find out what the gold/aluminum/steel value of a >>>>computer at? The obvious solution is to know what a scrapper is >>>>willing to pay, and add $10 to your bid. A scrapper will never >>>>spend more to buy something than it is worth, a collector will. >>> >>>Not a good assumption. A scrapper might be willing to spend whatever it >>>took to make you never get a winning bid and just go away. >> >>Yes, an appropriate correlation is that if they can crush computers (before >>shredding the carcass) then they can cru$h you. >> >>Their profits drop corresponding with losses of bids so they're going to >>spend extra in the short term to protect their profits in the long term. >> >>Regards, Chris >>-- -- >>Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian >>Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net >> Member of Antique Wireless Association >> URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ > > From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 6 18:27:04 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? Message-ID: <199912070027.TAA17881@world.std.com> < As far as I remember, the Intellec 8 was for 8008's Message-ID: On 6 Dec 1999, Rodrigo Ventura wrote: > > I can't help commenting on this: I was a big Amiga computers > fan, I used them for a long time, they felt like an interersing > alternative to the PC/DOS/Windows hegemony. I believed they had a > superior technological background. But as the years went by, I had to > recognize that it was no longer a fact, and that the PC/Linux > combination advanced at a much higher rate, than the Amiga, that > basically remained still, both in hardware and software terms. > I first heard about the Amiga in 1984 (it was called "Lorraine" back then and not quite ready). I eventually got an A1000 in 1987, and used it until 1993. At that time, I thought about getting an A3000 w/Emplant (so I could run Mac DTP programs), but decided on a Mac LC III instead. . . Back in 1986 or so, the only other choices were black and white Macs, expensive color Macs, or PC's that were still mostly CGA graphics (yuck!) But the Amiga seemed to have a lot going for it, even if it was considered somewhat of a backwater (compared to Mac and PC). Windows wasn't even an issue until 1992, or whenever 3.1 came out. From dylanb at sympatico.ca Mon Dec 6 17:50:18 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. Message-ID: <00b301bf4044$a66bce20$ee3e65cc@default> -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 7:48 PM Subject: Re: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. > > >--- John B wrote: >> BTW: Has anyone heard of a PDP-8/A500 ??? what is that? > >It happens to be the first model I ever laid hands on... KK8A, KM8A, DKC8AA >(the standard -8/a stuff), 12-slot box (the 20-slot box was for stuff like >the PDP-8/a 620). I am pretty sure (it's been a while) that the -8/a 500 >has a core-capable power supply. Lower stuff, like the -8/a 320, could only >take MOS memory (MS8C, et al.) > >I've only ever seen the 12-slot PDP-8/a boxes myself, but a couple of >flavors of them. I was told this mini was filled with core memory, has a bunch of RK05 packs, an rx01 and another thing they called a "panel box"- expander? > >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd@iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > From elvey at hal.com Mon Dec 6 19:02:07 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <199912070027.TAA17881@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199912070102.RAA16472@civic.hal.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > The 8048 was a much later product. It came out just before > > No after. Hi Allison You may be right on this one. I was at Intel at the time but the order of things was fuzzy. > > > Prompt48, small box with keypad two sockets and display. It could program > 8748, and do a passable in circuit emulation using the romless part. Yep, that was the name. They had Prompt series for most of the single chip controllers and I think they had them for the 8085 but I don't recall if the 8086 had one. They had multibus ICE for most everything from 8080 on through 8086's. By the way, I have a Prompt2920. I'm still looking for any i2920 parts if anyone out there has one ( not to be confused with 2900 bit slice parts ). Dwight From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Dec 6 19:03:18 1999 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: V.23 protocol References: <199912061723.SAA14625@dns.cyberlink.ch> Message-ID: <005001bf404e$da9b49a0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: Jean-Pierre Hofer To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Tuesday, 7 December 1999 4:51 Subject: V.23 protocol > Hello, > > > I am looking for specifications of the old V.23 protocol, or general > informations about this. > > Would someone know some hints ? Essentially it was a split baud rate used mostly by VIATEL and some bbs's. It was 1200/75 duplex where the user had a 1200 link for downloading and a 75 link for uploading. (Worked on the assumption - mostly true - that the user would be mostly transferring data /files to his machine from the host, and sending only control/command stuff back.) It worked ok for chatting too, since most people type a lot slower than that. If you need more, I can dig up specs, audio freqs etc. FYI, 1200 bps amateur packet radio modems use the 1200 portion, in half duplex mode, often using the 7910 or 7911 World modem chips that were prevalent in such things. I have a packet modem that I still use today that was converted from an ancient Sendata modem for the C64. Works well. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia. Email: geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au ICQ #: 1970476 From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 6 19:05:43 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? References: <199912070102.RAA16472@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <99120620060803.10490@vault.neurotica.com> On Mon, 06 Dec 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > By the way, I have a Prompt2920. I'm still looking >for any i2920 parts if anyone out there has one >( not to be confused with 2900 bit slice parts ). Huh? What's an i2920? -Dave McGuire From elvey at hal.com Mon Dec 6 19:27:47 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <99120620060803.10490@vault.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <199912070127.RAA16785@civic.hal.com> Dave McGuire wrote: > > Huh? What's an i2920? Hi Dave If you are going for a complete Intel chip collection, this is a rare bird indeed. This was an early attempt by Intel to get into the telco market. It is a DSP chip that had an EPROM inside. It was somewhat limited in how it worked. The program flow was just one big loop. Multiplying was a pain because it was a bit at a time. If it was a constant, there were often tricks you could play. It was to have a MIPs speed of 10MHz but I don't think they ever got beyond 8MHz before it got cancelled. Still, if you knew how to make it work, it was an interesting part. It could be programmed to make a spectrum analyser that would display on an oscilloscope that had x-y control. They had an Ap note showing how to do it. I have about 6 chips of which, only one is functional. That is why I'm still on the lookout for another. I'm afraid to mess with the last working one I might ever see. Dwight From cfandt at netsync.net Mon Dec 6 19:30:51 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback In-Reply-To: References: <19991206154547.20410.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19991206201136.00aab620@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 12:29 PM 12/6/99 -0800, Mike Ford said something like: -- snip -- >BTW you might want to check with your trash company, many places do NOT >allow a monitor or other large tube device into a landfill. If they find >one, and it still has your property tag on it, you could get a nasty fine. Indeed so. I have just been emailing with a fellow who is a consultant to the EPA and had contacted me for feedback as to what I do with defective CRTs. He told me that Massachusetts has banned CRTs from landfills within their state. Reason basically is the volume they take up. MA has a new law promulgated which prohibits creation of new landfills so you can imagine the remaining ones are a rather limited resource. (So watch out Allison and Megan! :) What do the rest of you folks do to get shed of dud CRTs? I suppose the big scrappers handle recycling of the CRT glass through an outfit specifically geared toward CRT recycling. I found there are at least 16 outfits worldwide who either broker or actually recycle CRT glass and CRT byproducts. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 6 19:57:55 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991206201136.00aab620@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Dec 6, 99 08:30:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1640 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991207/f5aa771e/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 6 19:54:21 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: DEC LA-180 and PDP8e/LC8-E In-Reply-To: <199912070015.TAA11228@pechter.dyndns.org> (message from Bill Pechter on Mon, 6 Dec 1999 19:15:32 -0500 (EST)) References: <199912070015.TAA11228@pechter.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <19991207015421.26696.qmail@brouhaha.com> Bill writes about the LA180 and related models: > I didn't think it did. There was -- I think an LS-180 or LS120 or 180 which > was kind of a serial LA180. > > Kind of like the LA36 with the accelerator option some third parties > used to keep the machine in high speed catchup mode. The LA30 is the original DECwriter, and was available with serial or parallel interfaces. I don't think there was a printer-only version. The LA36 is the basic DECwriter II. Serial interface only, with keyboard. The LA35 is the printer-only version. The LA37 is an LA36 with APL character support. Serial speed is selectable between 110, 150, and 300 bps, for 10, 15, and 30 cps. The print mechanism has a faster "catchup" mode; I think it operates at 120 cps. This is used to print the characters that were buffered while doing a lengthy operation like a carriage return, line feed, tab, etc. Without a third-party modification, there's no way to get sustained throughput greater than 30 cps. However, the LA36 mechanism is not designed for 120 cps sustained operation, and is more prone to break down when used that way at a heavy duty cycle. The LA120 is the DECwriter III. Serial interface only, with keyboard. Supports speeds up to 120 cps. I'm not sure how different the mechanism is from the LA36, but it is designed for 120 cps duty. The LA180 is a printer-only machine. AFAIK, the mechanism is the same as the LA120. I've only seen serial-interface models, but apparently based on the earlier comments in this thread, there was a parallel-interface variant as well. From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 6 20:58:04 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? Message-ID: <199912070258.VAA16056@world.std.com> <> Prompt48, small box with keypad two sockets and display. It could progra <> 8748, and do a passable in circuit emulation using the romless part. < (message from Allison J Parent on Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:58:04 -0500 (EST)) References: <199912070258.VAA16056@world.std.com> Message-ID: <19991207024051.26982.qmail@brouhaha.com> Dick wrote: > Yep, that was the name. They had Prompt series for most > of the single chip controllers and I think they had them > for the 8085 but I don't recall if the 8086 had one. Allison wrote: > Nope 8080, 8085, 8086 they had the SDK-8x. The SDKs were minimal systems > with rom, keypad and display and a breadboard area. The difference between > them and the PROMPT-48 was the PROMPT was in the Intel Blue case where the > SDKs were bare board kits. Of all my SBCs I have no SDKs even though I've > built several of each! There was also a PROMPT-80. I saw one in a surplus store about three years ago, but they wanted too much for it. Nowdays I would buy such a thing anyhow and flog it off on ePay. From elvey at hal.com Mon Dec 6 21:16:09 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <199912070258.VAA16056@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199912070316.TAA18168@civic.hal.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > <. Of all my SBCs I have no SDKs even though I've > built several of each! Hi I have a SDK86 board but I don't know if it works or not. There was a question of the early bus controller chip that went on it. Maybe, I'll play with it some day. Dwight From rws at enteract.com Mon Dec 6 22:14:51 1999 From: rws at enteract.com (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Intel i2920 IC was Re: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <199912070127.RAA16785@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > Hi Dave > If you are going for a complete Intel chip collection, > this is a rare bird indeed. This was an early attempt > by Intel to get into the telco market. It is a > DSP chip that had an EPROM inside. It was somewhat ... > I have about 6 chips of which, only one is > functional. That is why I'm still on the lookout > for another. I'm afraid to mess with the last working > one I might ever see. I got a strange board from a previous employer (who made teleconferencing equipment) labeled Intel SDK-2920. I fooled around with it a little bit, not really knowing what it was. It has an 8085 for the CPU on the "programmer" side, 1 kB of SRAM (2 2114's), a 24-character 14-segment-per-character LED display, and of course the EPROM programmer. On the "execute" side there are 4 analog signal channels, only one populated, (each containing 2 2912 IC's and some passives) and then one socket for the 2920 that runs the whole mess. And yes, I have a 2920 for it which I think is good, because it reports "EPROM BLANK" when I try to dump the program out of it. The die inside the 2920 is mounted cockeyed- and it's huge, some parts of it are outside the limits of the quartz window. Just letting you knwo that more of the weird stuff exists out there, Richard From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 7 00:19:34 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <199912070316.TAA18168@civic.hal.com> References: <199912070258.VAA16056@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991207001934.476fd4d4@mailhost.intellistar.net> For all of you that are inteerested. The one on E-OverPay closed tonight at $765!!! Joe From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Mon Dec 6 22:20:45 1999 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Radio reporter in San Diego looking for vintage computer geeks Message-ID: This reporter is looking for vintage computer geeks in San Diego to interview. Please respond directly to . ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 10:20:27 -0800 From: Scott Horsley To: vcf@vintage.org Hi. I'm a radio reporter working on a story about vintage computer users. If you know of any in the San Diego area who'd like to be interviewed about their vintage machines, please have them contact me at shorsley@kpbs.org, or by phone at 619/594-8130. Thanks. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF East? VCF Europe!? YOU BETCHA!! Stay tuned for more information or contact me to find out how you can participate http://www.vintage.org From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 6 21:56:30 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: V.23 protocol In-Reply-To: Jean-Pierre Hofer "V.23 protocol" (Dec 6, 18:21) References: <199912061723.SAA14625@dns.cyberlink.ch> Message-ID: <9912070356.ZM7043@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 6, 18:21, Jean-Pierre Hofer wrote: > I am looking for specifications of the old V.23 protocol, or general > informations about this. It's a CCITT modem standard for half-duplex asynchronous communication at 600 or 1200 baud (one direction, on the forward channel) with a 75 baud back channel. Because the back channel is not just used for signalling, it somtimes used to be called "asymmetric duplex". It's an FSK system, the forward channel uses 1300Hz/1700Hz tones for 600 baud, or 1300Hz/2100Hz tones for 1200 baud; the back channel uses 390Hz/450Hz. The lower frequency is used for MARK and the higher for SPACE. The standard also specifies the answer tone frequency (2100Hz) and some timing but I can't remember the details. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Dec 6 22:53:34 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Nostalgic note [Was: Re: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same?] Message-ID: <19991207045334.6157.qmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Charles P. Hobbs" wrote: > I first heard about the Amiga in 1984 (it was called "Lorraine" back then > and not quite ready). I ran across one in 1985 at Ohio State. fresh out of the crate. I knew I wanted one. > I eventually got an A1000 in 1987, and used it until 1993. I got my A1000 in 1986 and an 8-bit ISA adapter called The Wedge in 1987 to attach a WD-WX-1 w/ST225 disk - 20Mb for $500; it beat the $1000 that a "real" disk was going for. I later went from using The Wedge to using the "Golden Gate II" card in my A3000 for Ethernet - it's a Zorro<->ISA bridge card to let you use IBM cards with Unix and AmigaDOS. Eventually, I bought the design and made a bunch of them under the name "GG2 Bus+". > At that time, I thought about getting an A3000 w/Emplant (so I could > run Mac DTP programs), but decided on a Mac LC III instead. . . I went with the A3000/A-Max route - Localtalk for the Amiga and I could hook my computer right up to a Mac-compatible laserprinter. It's still set up at my right elbow, but I don't use it much anymore :-( I've gone from M$ Word on an emulated Mac to M$ Word on a Windoze box. Foo. This is not progress. I just went to our Amiga club's December meeting/party... a dozen people. At one point, AmiCON, the third registered Amiga user group in the U.S., had over 300 members. It was a real world example of how far the Amiga has faded away. If there are any Amiga users out there who are still using their machines for "useful work", I still make the "GG2 Bus+" card. It comes with Ethernet, IDE, serial and printer drivers and is *very* well supported under BSD-flavors of Unix on the Amiga. Write me off the list for details. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Dec 6 22:59:06 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Everyone here should read this.. I thought I'd seen everything. Message-ID: <19991207045906.29504.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> --- John B wrote: > >--- John B wrote: > >> BTW: Has anyone heard of a PDP-8/A500 ??? what is that? > > > >I wrote: > >It happens to be the first model I ever laid hands on... KK8A, KM8A, DKC8AA > >(the standard -8/a stuff), 12-slot box (the 20-slot box was for stuff like > >the PDP-8/a 620). I am pretty sure (it's been a while) that the -8/a 500 > >has a core-capable power supply. > > I was told this mini was filled with core memory, has a bunch of RK05 packs, > an rx01 and another thing they called a "panel box"- expander? Well - that confirms the PSU question. I don't know what a "panel box" might be, but it was possible to hook an older ONMIBUS cabinet to an -8/a with a pair of cables that superficially resembled UNIBUS cables. Want to sell the RK8E? I have a couple of drives, but I'd need at least one 16-sector pack, preferably a couple. I don't really need any hex-height OMNIBUS core; I've got a KT8-A and a 128Kw MOS board. I'm still looking for a programmers console, BTW. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 6 23:04:53 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: V.23 protocol In-Reply-To: <005001bf404e$da9b49a0$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Geoff Roberts wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jean-Pierre Hofer > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Sent: Tuesday, 7 December 1999 4:51 > Subject: V.23 protocol > > > > Hello, > > > > > > I am looking for specifications of the old V.23 protocol, or general > > informations about this. > > > > Would someone know some hints ? > > Essentially it was a split baud rate used mostly by VIATEL and some bbs's. > It was 1200/75 duplex where the user had a 1200 link for downloading and a > 75 link for uploading. > (Worked on the assumption - mostly true - that the user would be mostly > transferring data > /files to his machine from the host, and sending only control/command stuff > back.) And adapted - in principle, at least - by US Robotics for their HST protocol. - don > It worked ok for chatting too, since most people type a lot slower than > that. > If you need more, I can dig up specs, audio freqs etc. > FYI, 1200 bps amateur packet radio modems use the 1200 portion, in half > duplex mode, > often using the 7910 or 7911 World modem chips that were prevalent in such > things. > I have a packet modem that I still use today that was converted from an > ancient Sendata > modem for the C64. Works well. > > Cheers > > Geoff Roberts > Computer Systems Manager > Saint Mark's College > Port Pirie, South Australia. > Email: geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au > netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au > ICQ #: 1970476 > > > > From vaxman at uswest.net Mon Dec 6 23:24:59 1999 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback In-Reply-To: <19991206154547.20410.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Will Jennings wrote: > Damn, maybe I shouldn't be tossing crud like that busted VR290 in the > dumpster... All of those 14" monitors are worth 3 to 5 bucks? Heck, I've > probably tossed 20+ of them this year... As I write this the dumpster by my > work contains 2 dead terminals, a dead VR290, and Dell guts.. the MicroVAX > 3100 may, unfortunately, be joining them soon, since it won't boot and all I > get is a ~ from the console :( But seriously, would it be worthwhile to save > all the circut boards, monitors, etc. which I currently toss in the > dumpster? I already have a bunch of automotive scrap that I know is > worthwhile (i.e. engine blocks, transmissions, etc.) but is that computer > junk worth it? > > Will J > It depends on whether or not you are willing to invest a little work in them on the off chance someone might need them. For example, I took two dead Apples IIs and swapped parts until I got a running one. I never was able to revive the other, so I ended up in the trash (Sorry, I was ~15 at the time)... Most DEC boards use the same bus transceivers that aren't available anymore. If you were willing to make a list of the components on the board, you might find someone willing to spend $$ for a dead board. Clint PS This is not an attack on throwing stuff away. Only a suggestion for everyone (myself included) to revisit that stack of "dead" hardware. From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Dec 7 00:04:07 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback Message-ID: <0.f359a53c.257dfd57@aol.com> I know this business well, having apprenticed to a scrapper for several years. He is lowballing you on prices. This is common among scrappers. However he is fairly accurate when you include labor. Final prices depend on the price of the metals that day, remember this is an international market. > > Breakage, what it sounds like the lowest grade general scrap, 2 to 4 cents/ > lb Breakage breaks down into three categories (actually more if you consider specialized breakage like telephones.) Low grade breakage is 2 to 4 cents per pound. Motor breakage (must include a motor or transformer) is 4 to 6 cents per pound. Aluminum breakage which has a high content of aluminum mixed with other metals can be up to 16 cents per pound. IBM 3380 disk drives have the aluminum platters pressed onto a steel shaft. The difficulty of separating these pieces make them Al breakage. > Cables with copper inside, power cords, data cords, etc. 6 to 8 cents/lb Wire is graded by the amount (%) of copper in them. It really pays to sort it and remove the connectors. The last wire I sold ran from 12 to 24 cents per pound. The connectors stripped of their housings and excess wire can bring up to $2 per pound > Old PC chassis that have some usefull parts, drives etc., but maybe no cpu > or memory chips. 8 cents/lb Old PCs have little value. My friend who is shipping containers overseas is getting $10 for every 486 or better box he throws in the container, they must have CPU (33mhz or better), memory and drives. They do not have to be tested or working. Anything else is steel scrap or breakage. > Just the circuit boards, 25 to 35 cents/lb Raw PC circuit cards are this price. Raw dec cards are worth considerably more. However it pays to clean the cards. If you remove the metals on the card (this includes the aluminum capacitors then the cards can be worth up to $1.50 a pound at the refiner. The last cards I sold I got $1 per pound for run of the mill and 50 cents per pound for clean PC cards. This was at the bottom of the gold market. However I get top dollar because of the job I do to clean them. The last DEC cards I sold I got $1.33 per pound. This is after all of the collectors in the area went through them and pulled anything they were interested in. Gold plated cards like the HP are worth up to $3.50 per pound. The brighter the gold the thinner it is. Circuit cards from before 1972 have gold that is much heavier plated. This is when gold was $35 per ounce. The plating was normally 40 microns. HP plated cards from the 1980s had gold at about 1 micron. These cards have to be evaluated separately It also pays to clip and collect the Tantalum capacitors. They are very heavy. The last I sold I got $4 per pound. > Aluminum that a magnet isn't attracted to. 35 cents/lb The price of Aluminum fluctuates daily. The last prices I got were .37 for painted sheet, .39 for unpainted sheet and ,36 for cast. 6061 extruded is about is about .42, 6063 clips are about .44 and 6068 disk drive platters are worth a premium. If there is any iron or other contaminates the aluminum goes as irony Al (less than 2% iron by weight) or breakage. There are other metals of interest. The water cooled mainframes have a lot of good copper that will bring 70 to 80 cents per pound. Electromagnetic shielding, called Mu (pronounced moo) metal has a high nickel content and ha a value based on the daily price of nickel. Also ALNICO magnets have a fairly high value for similar reasons. These come out of the CDC 300 meg removable disk drives and others. Stainless steel is highly prized because it is heavy and worth about 20 cents per pound. The last major metal salvaged is Palladium not Platinum. It is used heavily in computers. IBM mainframe cards demand a premium because of their use of Palladium. Some keyboards have gold contacts in them. Backplanes are usually Palladium or Gold. Big printers usually have a heavy cast Aluminum base plate. I am not mentioning the value of some of the chips on the cards. Any ceramic chip has a gold value. All plastic chips have a breakage value, even preprogrammed pals. A lot of this varies by the year of manufacture. > Untested or bad monitors > 14" about $3 to $5 > 15" My friend who ships containers overseas is getting above market for monitors. If they are at least SVGA he is getting $10, working or not. He can put up to 200 in each container. Now the minimum weight he has to get into his containers is 40,000 pounds, so he can't send too many. > 17" > 19" More, but it isn't clear how much, as testing/repair becomes more > worthwhile. He is getting $20 non-working for the 19" monitors in the container. Most of his large monitors he has serviced and sells them locally. One consideration in the prices you were quoted was labor. To evaluate a computer system you total what you will get for all of the metals then deduct for the labor to take it apart to get the metals. Many scrappers will work on a profit margin of 2 cents per pound. If they feel they can drive you from the market they will bid more than scrap if they have to. It is better to make friends with scrappers so you can make deals before the sale. We are thinking of making a video tape about evaluating scrap and another about loading containers. Anyone interested? Paxton From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 7 01:21:32 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Nostalgic note [Was: Re: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same?] In-Reply-To: <19991207045334.6157.qmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 06, 1999 08:53:34 PM Message-ID: <199912070721.XAA25915@shell1.aracnet.com> > I just went to our Amiga club's December meeting/party... a dozen people. At > one point, AmiCON, the third registered Amiga user group in the U.S., had over > 300 members. It was a real world example of how far the Amiga has faded away. BUT, how many of those users left *AFTER* the Gateway/Amiga, Inc. made the *BIG* announcement :^( From where I'm sitting thier announcement of a NextGen Amiga did more to kill the platform than anything. Of course I'm *REAL* tempted to go into that brand new Gateway store a couple miles from me and tell them I want to buy an Amiga 1200. Zane (who isn't a long time Amiga user, but is still bitter about Gateways treatment of the Amiga) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 7 03:42:22 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback In-Reply-To: <0.f359a53c.257dfd57@aol.com> Message-ID: >We are thinking of making a video tape about evaluating scrap and another >about loading containers. Anyone interested? Sure, I even have a title: Mondo Cane II: computers http://www.click-here-now.com/videostv/mondocane.htm for reference. This is one sick flick, worse all is true. Great for starting a diet or switching to vegetarianism. I am VERY curious, as I think many of us are in the position of working with, bidding against, etc. scrappers, and collectively they have to be among the shrewdest buggers on the planet. Delighted to sell us items at hundreds of times their cost, and dozens of times their usual profits. Ironically I think most would rather do business with us as knowledgable people even if it meant lower profits. Perhaps because it would make the transactions much faster and more reliable, or more likely if we understand them, maybe we will tip them to some good deals. The latter is worth more than most of us would ever buy directly. Specifics I am curious about. Prices I mentioned were a sloppy mix of what some of the local scrappers will pay for items, not at all what they get for them. Many scrap places buy and sell to other places higher or lower on the food chain too, with perhaps a good three layers of wholesale above the actuall metal shredders. I am mixed at the price he is getting for 486/33 and up, on one hand thats a lot ($10), but in practice it is fairly rare to get complete systems working or not. Ram, cpu, and hard drives are stolen/removed by employees before the stuff gets scrapped. Part of what I see as difference in price though I suspect is again, buy vs sell prices, he may get $10, but only pay $5 or less. A working 486/66 has a wholesale value someplace close to $15 right now, depending on the details and market. What about PS/2 systems? My salvage guy is sitting at $3 each as-is on the pallet (maybe 100+ units) from 386 to 486 of mixed content (many I hope to find reasonably complete). I have about zero interest in the 386 and below (except for a few with kingston 486 upgrade chips), but would like to harvest the ram etc. out of the others leaving him motherboards and chassis. My guess is that he is giving me baloney and that his "buyer" at $3 each doesn't in fact want the PS/2 pallets at all, just the compaq and HP vectra. Opinion? Have any of you contacted some of the scrap or recycling organizations (trade groups etc.)? There has to be some "computer scrapper weekly" too. From Rdusza at ci.manchester.ct.us Tue Dec 7 05:00:59 1999 From: Rdusza at ci.manchester.ct.us (Robert Dusza) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: 11/23 CPU Message-ID: Is there anyone who knows where I can purchase an 11/23 CPU for an existing Computer that we use to run some process equipment here in town. We had a major failure of one of the processors and donot have any spare CPUs. The system is due to be replaced next month. I also need a name for repair of existing cpus if possible. Thanks, Robert J. Dusza, Jr. Treatment Manager (V) 1-860-647-3219 (F) 1-860-647-3150 E-mail - RDUSZA@CI.MANCHESTER.CT.US Manchester Water & Sewer Dept. 125 Spring St. P.O. Box 191 Manchester, CT 06045-0191 From simmiv at ozemail.com.au Tue Dec 7 05:19:23 1999 From: simmiv at ozemail.com.au (Simmi Valgeirsson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Old QUBIE XT system Message-ID: <01BF4102.851D6760@simmi_two> I've been contacted and offered an old XT compatible system called QUBIE.. The owner believes it's from the states originally.. Anyone recognise this brand of computer? Rgds, Simmi Valgeirsson Sydney Australia -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 1835 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991207/988c8ee5/attachment.bin From peter at joules0.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 7 06:05:54 1999 From: peter at joules0.demon.co.uk (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19991206201136.00aab620@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: In article , Tony Duell writes >c) Place the CRT outside, put a couple of old coats over it and throw a >hammer at it (!). > >I am NOT RESPONSIBLE for any injury caused by trying the above, BTW!!! >Modern CRTs can't violently implode, but it's still wise to take care. I have included the caveat in the quote for obvious reasons. A master at my old school used to break up old CRTs by _gently_ tapping at the base of the neck with the ball of a hammer. This created a small hole to release the vacuum. It looked dangerous to me so I used the 'blanket and brick' approach as in (c) above or put the tube in a dustbin and crouched down beside the bin and used a hammer to knock off the neck keeping the bin between me and the CRT. -- Regards Pete From truthanl at oclc.org Tue Dec 7 08:41:03 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE3B@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Probably MUCH safer to place the CRT in a thick cardboard box and tap an ice pick or awl through the anode connector. -----Original Message----- From: Peter Joules [mailto:peter@joules0.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 7:06 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback In article , Tony Duell ...looked dangerous to me so I used the 'blanket and brick' approach as in (c) above or put the tube in a dustbin and crouched down beside the bin and used a hammer to knock off the neck keeping the bin between me and the CRT. -- Regards Pete From enrico.badella at softstar.it Tue Dec 7 09:08:57 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Spectron Datascopes References: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE3B@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Message-ID: <384D2309.639B389C@softstar.it> Hi all, Some time ago I acquired a Spectron D-586 Datascope and played a bit trying to hook it to an X.25 network at work but it seems limited to SDLC. Anybody got a manual or some docs and is willing to scan it? I know were another similar datascope will be junked; it is a D-528. Wonder what different features it has. Cheers e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 7 11:26:16 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19991206201136.00aab620@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991207112616.3c5fcf4c@mailhost.intellistar.net> You can safely let the air in (or vacuum out) of a CRT by breaking the "tit" on the back end of the CRT where the air was evacuated. It may be covered by the plug for the electrical connections. If it is then just break the plug off. The glass is very thin there and I've seen may people just use a karate chop motion with almost any metal object to break the end of the tit off. That will let the air in and the rest of the tube stays intact. Joe At 12:05 PM 12/7/99 +0000, you wrote: >In article , Tony Duell > writes >>c) Place the CRT outside, put a couple of old coats over it and throw a >>hammer at it (!). >> >>I am NOT RESPONSIBLE for any injury caused by trying the above, BTW!!! >>Modern CRTs can't violently implode, but it's still wise to take care. > >I have included the caveat in the quote for obvious reasons. A master >at my old school used to break up old CRTs by _gently_ tapping at the >base of the neck with the ball of a hammer. This created a small hole >to release the vacuum. > >It looked dangerous to me so I used the 'blanket and brick' approach as >in (c) above or put the tube in a dustbin and crouched down beside the >bin and used a hammer to knock off the neck keeping the bin between me >and the CRT. >-- >Regards >Pete > From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Dec 7 10:32:52 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:09 2005 Subject: 11/23 CPU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello, I have several, I could sell you one if you have not had an offer from anyone. Which specific version of the 11/23 do you require? Allison On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Robert Dusza wrote: > Is there anyone who knows where I can purchase an 11/23 CPU for an existing Computer that we use to run some process equipment here in town. We had a major failure of one of the processors and donot have any spare CPUs. The system is due to be replaced next month. I also need a name for repair of existing cpus if possible. > > > > > Thanks, > > Robert J. Dusza, Jr. > Treatment Manager > (V) 1-860-647-3219 > (F) 1-860-647-3150 > E-mail - RDUSZA@CI.MANCHESTER.CT.US > Manchester Water & Sewer Dept. > 125 Spring St. P.O. Box 191 > Manchester, CT 06045-0191 > From amichael at nortelnetworks.com Tue Dec 7 10:44:14 1999 From: amichael at nortelnetworks.com (Arlen Michaels) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel i2920 IC was Re: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? Message-ID: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E802B5DAAB@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> I also recently came across one of these Intel SDK-2920 single-boards, but it's missing the 2920. If any 2920-equipped list member is interested in giving this board a better home, maybe we can arrange a swap. Arlen Michaels > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard W. Schauer [SMTP:rws@enteract.com] > Sent: Monday, December 06, 1999 11:15 PM > > On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > > > Hi Dave > > If you are going for a complete Intel chip collection, > > this is a rare bird indeed. This was an early attempt > > by Intel to get into the telco market. It is a > > DSP chip that had an EPROM inside. It was somewhat > > I got a strange board from a previous employer (who made teleconferencing > equipment) labeled Intel SDK-2920. I fooled around with it a little bit, > not really knowing what it was. It has an 8085 for the CPU on the > "programmer" side, 1 kB of SRAM (2 2114's), a 24-character > 14-segment-per-character LED display, and of course the EPROM programmer. > On the "execute" side there are 4 analog signal channels, only one > populated, (each containing 2 2912 IC's and some passives) and then one > socket for the 2920 that runs the whole mess. And yes, I have a 2920 for > it which I think is good, because it reports "EPROM BLANK" when I try to > dump the program out of it. The die inside the 2920 is mounted cockeyed- > and it's huge, some parts of it are outside the limits of the quartz > window. > > Just letting you knwo that more of the weird stuff exists out there, > > Richard > -- Arlen Michaels amichael@nortelnetworks.com Nortel Networks, Ottawa, Canada voice (613) 763-2568 fax (613) 763-9344 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991207/3e8d059b/attachment.html From elvey at hal.com Tue Dec 7 11:35:56 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel i2920 IC was Re: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <13E2EF604DE5D111B2E50000F80824E802B5DAAB@zwdld001.ca.nortel.com> Message-ID: <199912071735.JAA02409@civic.hal.com> "Arlen Michaels" wrote: > I also recently came across one of these Intel SDK-2920 single-boards, but > it's missing the 2920. If any 2920-equipped list member is interested in > giving this board a better home, maybe we can arrange a swap. > > Arlen Michaels Hi Arlen I just received this message: from: steve g Hi, Someone on the "Classic Computer Discusion List" relayed that you were interested in this device. I collect Intel chips and I have quite a few of the D versions (D2920), brand new, if your interested, $20/each or will trade for a C4040. steve __________________________________________________ I expect to buy a few but he says he has quite a few. Dwight From elvey at hal.com Tue Dec 7 11:41:00 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel i2920 IC was Re: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199912071741.JAA02473@civic.hal.com> "Richard W. Schauer" wrote: > > > On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > > > Hi Dave > > If you are going for a complete Intel chip collection, > > this is a rare bird indeed. This was an early attempt > > by Intel to get into the telco market. It is a > > DSP chip that had an EPROM inside. It was somewhat > ... > > I have about 6 chips of which, only one is > > functional. That is why I'm still on the lookout > > for another. I'm afraid to mess with the last working > > one I might ever see. > > I got a strange board from a previous employer (who made teleconferencing > equipment) labeled Intel SDK-2920. Hi Richard I think mine may be a SDK instead of a Prompt as well. It sure sounds like the same unit. I'll have to check and see. I also have documentation on the unit. If you don't have this stuff, let me know and I can copy what I have. Dwight From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Dec 7 11:45:53 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback) Message-ID: <19991207174553.15560.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > You can safely let the air in (or vacuum out) of a CRT by breaking the > "tit" on the back end of the CRT where the air was evacuated. It may be > covered by the plug for the electrical connections. If it is then just > break the plug off. The glass is very thin there and I've seen may people > just use a karate chop motion with almost any metal object to break the end > of the tit off. That will let the air in and the rest of the tube stays > intact. I just did that accidentally to a Mac SE. :-( I was trying to remove a cable from the innards and my hand slipped and wacked the board on the back of the CRT and skewed it far enough to bust that little tit. Now I have *more* spare Mac parts. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From dylanb at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 7 10:54:30 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback) Message-ID: <007701bf40d3$bad71c40$c56465cc@default> -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 12:46 PM Subject: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback) > > >--- Joe wrote: >> You can safely let the air in (or vacuum out) of a CRT by breaking the >> "tit" on the back end of the CRT where the air was evacuated. It may be >> covered by the plug for the electrical connections. If it is then just >> break the plug off. The glass is very thin there and I've seen may people >> just use a karate chop motion with almost any metal object to break the end >> of the tit off. That will let the air in and the rest of the tube stays >> intact. > >I just did that accidentally to a Mac SE. :-( I was trying to remove a >cable from the innards and my hand slipped and wacked the board on the >back of the CRT and skewed it far enough to bust that little tit. Now I >have *more* spare Mac parts. Do you know how many of those week lost at Queens Park?? One guy in my department nailed CRTs 2 in one week... You never forget that "hissing" sound that comes out of the unit... then the expression on the person working on it. The SEs also had those bad hard drives... the Principal Secretary actually had a large screw driver next to his SE... Every time the drive wouldn't spin up he would beat the crap out of it. Apple came down and they agreed to replace all the flaky hard drives free immediately. Entire legislative assembly had those things everywhere. I was visiting one MPP (member of provincial parliament) and will never forget what he did.He hated the SE so much that he actually asked me "how do I get a new real computer?".. I told him the only way was if this one broke. .. Well, in front of me he pushed it off his desk and hoped that it would smash when it hit the floor. It didn't break so I decided to help him out and offered to bring it back to my department and have one of our Junior Programmers put a new drive in it. He then yelled out in the hallway "Someone trip Bordnik! He's got my computer and I don't want that piece of shit back.". Good times. john http://www.pdp8.com > >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd@iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > From steverob at hotoffice.com Tue Dec 7 12:29:54 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. Message-ID: <01BF40B7.2632F5D0.steverob@hotoffice.com> On Monday, December 06, 1999 2:41 PM, Bill Yakowenko [SMTP:yakowenk@cs.unc.edu] wrote: > I've got a line on an NCR tower in Miami FL. If you are > interested in picking up or paying shipping, let me know. > Please e-mail to me directly, as I've temporarily unsubscribed > (can't handle the volume). > > Cheers, > Bill. I have conversed via email with the owner and he tells me there may be two available soon. He says one is a "NCR 400" and the other is a "NCR 450". Both have non-functional tape drives (don't know the problem) and are running SCO Unix. One of the systems has an accounting package on it but, apparently that's the only software. Does anyone know anything about these machines? If they are common PC's types, I won't bother but, if there is something unique about them, I might grab em'. Thanks for any info, Steve Robertson From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Dec 7 12:34:58 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback) Message-ID: <19991207183458.29540.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> --- John B wrote: > >I just did that accidentally to a Mac SE. :-( I was trying to remove a > >cable from the innards and my hand slipped and wacked the board on the > >back of the CRT and skewed it far enough to bust that little tit. > > Do you know how many of those week lost at Queens Park?? One guy in my > department nailed CRTs 2 in one week... You never forget that "hissing" > sound that comes out of the unit... then the expression on the person > working on it. That was me. I heard this unmistakable noise and just sat there, a victim of my own carelessness. > The SEs also had those bad hard drives... the Principal > Secretary actually had a large screw driver next to his SE... Every time the > drive wouldn't spin up he would beat the crap out of it. Apple came down and > they agreed to replace all the flaky hard drives free immediately. I still have a Quantum PD1800S that has stiction. I paid $1100 for it new and they didn't consider it to be a warrantable problem. I'll never buy from them again. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From mrdos at swbell.net Tue Dec 7 12:59:04 1999 From: mrdos at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Adopt a scrapper and paper tape punches. Message-ID: <007e01bf40e5$22945c60$932ba497@compaq> >I like the idea... my only question is, Where does one find such a >scrapper? Is it as simple as checking the Yellow Pages under Scrapper >or metal recovery? How do you know they deal with computers without >calling? I'd hate to get off to a bad start with one... That's what I did. I called around and eventually someone told me where all the computers go around here (Fort Worth). I called the man and he was very nice. Told me to come on by. Just be very polite, and ask him when the best time to stop by would be. Look in the Yellow Pages under Metal Recycling and Junk Dealers. Sometimes local surplus places will have things too. From dylanb at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 7 11:59:24 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback) Message-ID: <008901bf40dc$cbd85b40$c56465cc@default> -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 1:36 PM Subject: Re: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback) > > >--- John B wrote: > >> >I just did that accidentally to a Mac SE. :-( I was trying to remove a >> >cable from the innards and my hand slipped and wacked the board on the >> >back of the CRT and skewed it far enough to bust that little tit. >> >> Do you know how many of those week lost at Queens Park?? One guy in my >> department nailed CRTs 2 in one week... You never forget that "hissing" >> sound that comes out of the unit... then the expression on the person >> working on it. > >That was me. I heard this unmistakable noise and just sat there, a victim >of my own carelessness. > >> The SEs also had those bad hard drives... the Principal >> Secretary actually had a large screw driver next to his SE... Every time the >> drive wouldn't spin up he would beat the crap out of it. Apple came down and >> they agreed to replace all the flaky hard drives free immediately. > >I still have a Quantum PD1800S that has stiction. I paid $1100 for it new >and they didn't consider it to be a warrantable problem. I'll never buy from >them again. > Hmmm... Not a warranty problem?? They certainly changed their minds when I called them. It would not look good publicly for Quantum showing the Premier of Ontario beating the hell out of one to start it up. This brings back really funny memories. Every so often I'd get called out to in the hallway (did not do tech support but people still asked for help)... for help because someone had an unhappy SE. It would shock them to watch me come up to their Mac and punch it really hard. [you *had* to see their faces.]. Then. hear the drive spin up and walk away. Those quantum drives were awful. As back up policies were rarely adhered to it was my job to pull the drives apart and get the data out at any cost.... One day one the ministries lost some serious data to a dead quantum.. I took a new one off the shelf and used some of its parts to make the old one work (were talking replacing the motor). A rep and engineer from quantum came by to see what I was doing.... They weren't going to replace the new drive that I had cannibalized until they were told we had enough of their broken garbage.. john > >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd@iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > From mrdos at swbell.net Tue Dec 7 13:12:23 1999 From: mrdos at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Nostalgic note [Was: Re: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same?] Message-ID: <00c101bf40e6$fefb48c0$932ba497@compaq> >BUT, how many of those users left *AFTER* the Gateway/Amiga, Inc. made the >*BIG* announcement :^( From where I'm sitting thier announcement of a >NextGen Amiga did more to kill the platform than anything. > >Of course I'm *REAL* tempted to go into that brand new Gateway store a >couple miles from me and tell them I want to buy an Amiga 1200. What exactly did Gateway do to Amiga? From flo at rdel.co.uk Tue Dec 7 13:10:42 1999 From: flo at rdel.co.uk (Paul Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? References: Message-ID: <384D5BB2.14F66A6D@rdel.co.uk> Tony Duell wrote: > > I bought my Intellec 8i at a radio rally. Having naively walked around Computer Fairs looking for anything manufactured before last week, I was recently told about radio rallies. How do you find out where they are held? Magazines like Micro Mart are no help at all! Paul From mrdos at swbell.net Tue Dec 7 13:25:58 1999 From: mrdos at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Amiga 1000 Keyboard Message-ID: <010701bf40e8$e4b7bbe0$932ba497@compaq> Does anyone know where I could get a keyboard for an Amiga 1000? Thanks, Owen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991207/1fdd1092/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 7 12:57:35 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <199912070258.VAA16056@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Dec 6, 99 09:58:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 460 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991207/b301693d/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 7 13:10:24 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback) In-Reply-To: <19991207174553.15560.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 7, 99 09:45:53 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1130 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991207/53adb750/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 7 13:04:39 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel i2920 IC was Re: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: from "Richard W. Schauer" at Dec 6, 99 10:14:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1367 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991207/9c7f27b4/attachment.ksh From mgregory at vantageresearch.com Tue Dec 7 13:34:30 1999 From: mgregory at vantageresearch.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Nostalgic note [Was: Re: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same?] Message-ID: <003501bf40ea$14e77020$6a4be4cf@vax.vantageresearch.com> -----Original Message----- From: Owen Robertson To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 12:18 PM Subject: Re: Nostalgic note [Was: Re: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same?] >>BUT, how many of those users left *AFTER* the Gateway/Amiga, Inc. made the >>*BIG* announcement :^( From where I'm sitting thier announcement of a >>NextGen Amiga did more to kill the platform than anything. >> >>Of course I'm *REAL* tempted to go into that brand new Gateway store a >>couple miles from me and tell them I want to buy an Amiga 1200. > > >What exactly did Gateway do to Amiga? > > They bought the rights to the Amiga hardware and software from a defunct predecessor, made grandiose announcements (about new products, porting the OS, and reviving the line), got everybody's hopes up, and then dropped the whole thing because it was too little too late and/or uneconomic to serve the declining base of Amiga users. Same thing that Amiga International, Escom, and several others have done since Commodore went bankrupt. Gateway just hurts more because they were: A) the most recent B) rich enough to be a credible hope C) possibly the last, best hope. I can't imagine another major company bidding on the rights to the Amiga after so many others have failed. A sad end to a nice OS that still multi-tasks better than most. Mark (A1000, A500, A3000, A1200) Gregory From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Dec 7 14:09:16 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? Message-ID: <0.9d1b0e17.257ec36c@aol.com> In a message dated 12/7/1999 11:18:18 AM Pacific Standard Time, flo@rdel.co.uk writes: > I was recently told about radio rallies. > How do you find out where they are held? Go to a ham radio store. Ask. They should have flyers around. Paxton From mgregory at vantageresearch.com Tue Dec 7 13:48:08 1999 From: mgregory at vantageresearch.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: <009401bf40eb$fca30ea0$6a4be4cf@vax.vantageresearch.com> -----Original Message----- From: David Vohs To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 06, 1999 4:53 PM Subject: Looking for... >I am looking for the following items. (Get ready, this is going to be a >pretty varied list!) > >----Pictures of Computers---- >Commodore Hyperion (looks like a Dynalogic Hyperion, & could be the same >thing?) Do you mean a ComTerm Hyperion? AFAIK, Comterm was the Canadian company that manufactured the Hyperion for a while, not Commodore. Commodore didn't get into the PC clone business until the PC-10 (unless you count the A1000 Sidecar). Regards, Mark From elvey at hal.com Tue Dec 7 14:15:57 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel i2920 IC was Re: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199912072015.MAA04423@civic.hal.com> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > Incidentally, the standard 'support package' for the 2920 seems to have > run on an MDS800. There was the assembler and simulator that ran under > ISIS, and a board for the Universal Prom Programmer that allowed you to > blow code into a 2920. I know my UPP only has 'boring' cards, though. > Hi Just as a warning to any that might have a UPP with this particular programming card. I was in charge of system test on these cards. I think that all of the cards that got out the door were fixed but some may not have been. The problem was that they used the same circuit as all the other cards for the voltage regulator. It was a 723 and a darlington pass transistor. The problem was that the circuit wasn't properly compensated for short high currents. It would cause the programming pulse to peak several volts over where it should. It would destroy the chips ( this is the case of some of the chips I currently have ). The fix was to add more capacitance right after the regulator to keep the demand on the responce a little lower. Anyhow, don't use one of these boards unless it had the capacitor tacked on to it. Also, Tony, there was an error in the reset circuit that caused flaky reset on some UPP units ( most that made it to the field with this problem ). Some units were more sensitive than others. If you write back I can describe the problem and what I remember as the fix. Dwight From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 7 14:25:27 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback) In-Reply-To: References: <19991207174553.15560.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 7, 99 09:45:53 am Message-ID: >> back of the CRT and skewed it far enough to bust that little tit. Now I >> have *more* spare Mac parts. > >Or you're looking for a 9" mono CRT. I am told you can still buy them, >and of course mono CRTs are a lot easier to set up than colour ones. All the little macs have compatible CRT tubes, mix and match all you want. If the socket fits, use it. ;) From philclayton at mindspring.com Tue Dec 7 14:37:21 1999 From: philclayton at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton / Computer Automation) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: CliniComp Computer and IP address Message-ID: <007601bf40f2$e90d75e0$d0958ad1@server> Today I aquired a very unusual computer called "CliniComp" I am guessing it was used in a Hospital critical care unit. It is a flat panel display with the whole computer (a 286) built in its small case, I have never seen anything like it before. Its memory (72pin) and I/O ports, Serial, Printer, Network Interface are all built in, It does not have a hard drive or floppy drive built in. By all I can tell its a workstation with a network boot rom that allows it to look for a network server. When I power it up it does a normal PC boot like memory check, and CMOS check, then displays : "Requesting an IP Address", it repeats this over several times and then reboots to restart all over again. Anyone have any suggestions how I can get around this, and if there is no way to get around this, If I set up another computer as a server would it find it and connect to it as a workstation ? This thing is really neat, and I have a great use for it in my home automation project, so I hope I can use it. The display is large and very good quality for a flat panel. Thanks in advance to anyone with some suggestions.. Phil From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Dec 7 14:34:57 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback) In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Dec 07, 1999 12:25:27 PM Message-ID: <199912072034.NAA02088@calico.litterbox.com> > > >> back of the CRT and skewed it far enough to bust that little tit. Now I > >> have *more* spare Mac parts. > > > >Or you're looking for a 9" mono CRT. I am told you can still buy them, > >and of course mono CRTs are a lot easier to set up than colour ones. > > All the little macs have compatible CRT tubes, mix and match all you want. > If the socket fits, use it. ;) > > I did this to an se30, and was told by the organization that ultimately HAD a spare and replaced it that you have to do a lot of adjustments on the video control board - which being high voltage made me somewhat uncomfortable - so I had it done. Cost me about a hundred bucks. You can bet the next time I had RAM to add I took it back to the shop to have it done rather than risk the tube again. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Dec 7 14:42:27 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback Message-ID: <0.1c525a3b.257ecb33@aol.com> In a message dated 12/7/1999 2:39:41 AM Pacific Standard Time, mikeford@socal.rr.com writes: > What about PS/2 systems? > My salvage guy is sitting at $3 each as-is on the pallet (maybe 100+ units) > from 386 to 486 of mixed content (many I hope to find reasonably complete). > I have about zero interest in the 386 and below (except for a few with > kingston 486 upgrade chips), but would like to harvest the ram etc. out of > the others leaving him motherboards and chassis. My guess is that he is > giving me baloney and that his "buyer" at $3 each doesn't in fact want the > PS/2 pallets at all, just the compaq and HP vectra. Opinion? Actuall most of the Compaq and HP Vecra is scrap. There is more demand for PS/2 on the secondary market. "No one ever got fired for buying IBM." $3 each is a good price. Most of the value is in the ram and CPU chip. After you pull that there is little value left. Current motherboards use little gold. The plastic, frame and power supply are liabilities. It costs more to pay someone to take it apart than you get for the materials. Yes, there are buyers out there for these systems by the pallet load. I have someone that wants more than a 1000 PS2s The price they are offering are similar. I have someone that will buy 10,000 Pentium 90s or better. This is for the CPU box only. > > Have any of you contacted some of the scrap or recycling organizations > (trade groups etc.)? There has to be some "computer scrapper weekly" too. There is no computer scrapper weekly that I know of. The margins are too small to support a publication. There are several magazines that cater to scrap metals and recycling. However computer stuff is a very small part of the waste stream. There is an online group called "Tradeloop" of the dealers I am talking about. The subscription to the group is $50 per month. These are large computer dealers trading among themselves. > From owad at applefritter.com Tue Dec 7 15:13:25 1999 From: owad at applefritter.com (Tom Owad) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Nostalgic note [Was: Re: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same?] Message-ID: <199912072114.NAA29114@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> >They bought the rights to the Amiga hardware and software from a defunct >predecessor, made grandiose announcements (about new products, porting the >OS, and reviving the line), got everybody's hopes up, and then dropped the >whole thing because it was too little too late and/or uneconomic to serve >the declining base of Amiga users. Same thing that Amiga International, >Escom, and several others have done since Commodore went bankrupt. Gateway >just hurts more because they were: A) the most recent B) rich enough to be >a credible hope C) possibly the last, best hope. I can't imagine another >major company bidding on the rights to the Amiga after so many others have >failed. >A sad end to a nice OS that still multi-tasks better than most. Actually, there's still a bit of hope yet. Eternal Computing is interested in getting AmigaOS running on the PowerPC Open Platform, as can be seen at . And Schmidt of Amiga writes: "I remain committed to seek out partners who are interested in developing a next-generation Amiga computer and operating system." So there's still a chance. Tom Owad ------------------------------Applefritter------------------------------ Apple Prototypes, Clones, & Hacks - The obscure, unusual, & exceptional. ------------------------------------------ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 7 15:18:10 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <384D5BB2.14F66A6D@rdel.co.uk> from "Paul Williams" at Dec 7, 99 07:10:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1000 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991207/54f32456/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 7 15:44:08 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Nostalgic note [Was: Re: Amiga 500, 2000 serial ports: The same?] In-Reply-To: <199912072114.NAA29114@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Message-ID: Mark Gregory writes: >They bought the rights to the Amiga hardware and software from a defunct >predecessor, made grandiose announcements (about new products, porting the >OS, and reviving the line), got everybody's hopes up, and then dropped the >whole thing because it was too little too late and/or uneconomic to serve >the declining base of Amiga users. Same thing that Amiga International, Ah, but you left out how many times they changed their direction. How from the looks of things they basically s**** the company that makes QNX. How they've *never* delievered any of their promises (I don't count AmigaOS 3.5, as they didn't deliever that, other people did). Owen Robertson writes: >And Schmidt of Amiga writes: >"I remain committed to seek out partners who are interested in developing >a next-generation Amiga computer and operating system." > >So there's still a chance. > >Tom Owad Don't trust him! All the people that seemed to care about seeing a NextGen Amiga disappeared just before and after he took over. The person to watch would be Petro Tyschtschenko in Germany, and I'm really surprised that Gateway hasn't sacked him yet. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 7 16:32:39 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? References: Message-ID: <384D8B07.6F61FDE7@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > > Don't overlook the 'any PCB for a pound' boxes that you see on a lot of > stands at rallies. You might just find the rare expansion card you've > been looking for (I have!). Other times I've bought the entire box of I'll second that! I had been looking for quite a while for the floppy disk controller that supports a wide range of formats (mind blank - I can't remember the name of the board) and found it in a box of old boards. The only problem is taking the time to scan a box of boards and recognizing something out of the ordinary. From jpero at cgocable.net Tue Dec 7 12:02:59 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback) In-Reply-To: <008901bf40dc$cbd85b40$c56465cc@default> Message-ID: <199912072301.SAA23209@admin.cgocable.net> > >--- John B wrote: > > > >> >I just did that accidentally to a Mac SE. :-( I was trying to remove a > >> >cable from the innards and my hand slipped and wacked the board on the > >> >back of the CRT and skewed it far enough to bust that little tit. > >That was me. I heard this unmistakable noise and just sat there, a victim > >of my own carelessness. Me too! Except that is generic mono monitor. The chassis was too flexiable and it tipped down, slewing that CRT board. Snap+hiss! Replaced it at my expenese out of my only working monitor. :-O > > > >> The SEs also had those bad hard drives... the Principal > >> Secretary actually had a large screw driver next to his SE... Every time > the > >> drive wouldn't spin up he would beat the crap out of it. Apple came down > and > >> they agreed to replace all the flaky hard drives free immediately. > > > >I still have a Quantum PD1800S that has stiction. I paid $1100 for it new > >and they didn't consider it to be a warrantable problem. I'll never buy > from > >them again. > > The primary cause is bad cooling for those hot running HDs, I'm not putting the Quantum in with that offenders for that problems, it wasn't the bearing, it was grabby platters. True cause are too many spin ups and shutdowns, letting it run too hot caused the grabby platters. Grabby platters happens because the lube ran out from center by flinging action when real hot. Heads happens to park at inner cylinders and you'll know what happens... > This brings back really funny memories. Every so often I'd get called out to ...Snip!... > come up to their Mac and punch it really hard. [you *had* to see their > faces.]. Then. hear the drive spin up and walk away. That punching that thing is what jarred free those grabby platters. That is only treating the symtoms. The true fix is new HD and new 3.9uF 250V NP cap & yoke male connector, resolder the trouble spots. Use screensaver always. Customers pays the backup job and teach them to do it regliously. > Those quantum drives were awful. As back up policies were rarely adhered to > it was my job to pull the drives apart and get the data out at any cost.... It wasn't the quantum's problems. I see Conners and few others that were being cooking inside those hot boxens without good cooling go bad. The best solution is cooler running HDs for those boxens that do have poor cooling design. > (were talking replacing the motor). A rep and engineer from quantum came by > to see what I was doing.... They weren't going to replace the new drive that > I had cannibalized until they were told we had enough of their broken > garbage.. Wow. HOW on earth that is possible!? the motor spindle casing is pressed into spindle axle. That casing has to go in order to get at coil assembly. Yes I played with those dead quantum 40S, 80S and any 105S HH 3.5" ones that used both optical + sectors feedback tracking. These dead ones died bec of grabby platters getting too great to overcome and platters starts to lose data bits and the bearings were still good and like new. Those ones that overheated platters looks defect-free, no 4-pits and no crash trackings but difference is it lost the surface lube/finish. Even fabled Barracudas die from heat. I recently aquired one that is still good (ST12550N) and experimented on it. Heated up like mad without airflow. Still will heat up even case w/ hd inside with some airflow. Noted that and knew this by reputation and I put a muffin fan at front end blowing on the "steel cage" and allowing free air rush across the top circuit. Cool temp as it should be with this simple fan solution. > > I still have a Quantum PD1800S that has stiction. I paid $1100 for > it new and they didn't consider it to be a warrantable problem. > I'll never buy from them again. > > > -ethan Ethan, my curious: that HD, did it run hot or bit too much warm? That is the primary problem. PD1800S is old design and runs hot. Did that HD sit all cooped up behind bezel or internally? My HDs now are mounted in new ways with bigger open or 3.5" bezel left off and they run at room temp or less. INCLUDING that "new" WD 9.1GB expert 7200rpm. The old LPS 540 is still living daily serving as data archival along with bit more warmer fireball EX. CR, CX and any fireballs run bit more warm or hot when cooling is poor. Wizard > john From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Tue Dec 7 17:04:34 1999 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Looking for... Message-ID: <19991207230434.16832.qmail@hotmail.com> > >I am looking for the following items. (Get ready, this is going to be a > >pretty varied list!) > > > >----Pictures of Computers---- > >Commodore Hyperion (looks like a Dynalogic Hyperion, & could be the same > >thing?) > > >Do you mean a ComTerm Hyperion? AFAIK, Comterm was the Canadian >company >that manufactured the Hyperion for a while, not Commodore. >Commodore >didn't get into the PC clone business until the PC-10 >(unless you >count the A1000 Sidecar). > >Regards, >Mark No, I don't mean the ComTerm Hyperion. When I said Commodore Hyperion, I'm not bullsh!tting, I actually mean Commodore Hyperion. All I know is that it looks like the Dynalogic Hyperion. By the way, ComTerm didn't make the Hyperion, a company called Dynalogic did. It sold relatively well (well, considering the state of the IBM clone market in early 1983). Not too long after they released the Hyperion, they were bought out by a company called Bytec, & they sold the Hyperion under the Bytec name. Later still, Compaq released the famous Compaq Portable, & we all know what happened from there (wither Bytec/Dynalogic). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 7 15:58:02 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback) In-Reply-To: <199912072034.NAA02088@calico.litterbox.com> from "Jim Strickland" at Dec 7, 99 01:34:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 869 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991207/c1f03e0c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 7 15:52:52 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel i2920 IC was Re: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <199912072015.MAA04423@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at Dec 7, 99 12:15:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 631 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991207/119b00dd/attachment.ksh From philclayton at mindspring.com Tue Dec 7 17:11:31 1999 From: philclayton at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton / Computer Automation) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: CliniComp Computer and IP address Message-ID: <00fb01bf4108$66ab2820$d0958ad1@server> Subject: CliniComp Computer and IP address >By all I can tell its a workstation with a network boot rom that >allows it to look for a network server. >After bootup is says "Requesting an IP Address", it repeats this >over several times and then reboots to restart all over again. > >Anyone have any suggestions how I can get around this, and if >there is no way to get around this, If I set up another computer >as a server would it find it and connect to it as a workstation ? > >This thing is really neat, and I have a great use for it in my >home automation project, so I hope I can use it. >The display is large and very good quality for a flat panel. >Thanks in advance to anyone with some suggestions.. After closer inspection of this computer I am convinced it is intended as a workstation only. But is a very nice computer, with the best resolution I have ever seen on an LCD screen. Problem is I have no way of knowing what IP address it is looking for.. Again after its normal bootup it says "Requesting an IP Address" It has a standard RJ45 connector on it for network interfacing. Can anyone here with some network experiance help me out on this. Can I get this thing to work or is it not possible ? I would like to set up one of my other computers as a possible server and see if it will attach to it.. Thanks in advance to anyone with some suggestions.. Phil... From arfonrg at texas.net Tue Dec 7 17:18:21 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Busting TRS-80 M2 CRTs (was: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price (was: Re: ebay feedback))) In-Reply-To: <19991207174553.15560.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991207171821.00986540@207.207.0.212> See below for my comments >> You can safely let the air in (or vacuum out) of a CRT by breaking the >> "tit" on the back end of the CRT where the air was evacuated. It may be >> covered by the plug for the electrical connections. If it is then just >> break the plug off. The glass is very thin there and I've seen may people >> just use a karate chop motion with almost any metal object to break the end >> of the tit off. That will let the air in and the rest of the tube stays >> intact. > >I just did that accidentally to a Mac SE. :-( I was trying to remove a >cable from the innards and my hand slipped and wacked the board on the >back of the CRT and skewed it far enough to bust that little tit. Now I >have *more* spare Mac parts. Hmmm, UPS just "safely let the air in (or vacuum out)" of a TRS-80 Model II CRT for me by breaking the tit. Wasn't that nice of them? Anyone know where I can get a replacement (hopefully without spending an arm and a leg)? What model(s) CRTs will work? Thanks, A ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From aek at spies.com Tue Dec 7 17:16:35 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: CliniComp Computer and IP address Message-ID: <199912072316.PAA01191@spies.com> ">After bootup is says "Requesting an IP Address", it repeats this >over several times and then reboots to restart all over again. " -- "Problem is I have no way of knowing what IP address it is looking for.. " It's trying to OBTAIN an IP address from the net. If you have something capable of sniffing the net, see if it is trying to contact a DHCP server. From dylanb at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 7 16:23:03 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback) Message-ID: <000a01bf4101$a464b7a0$c56465cc@default> -----Original Message----- From: jpero@cgocable.net To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 6:02 PM Subject: Re: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price was: Re: ebay feedback) > >--- John B wrote: > > > >> >I just did that accidentally to a Mac SE. :-( I was trying to remove a > >> >cable from the innards and my hand slipped and wacked the board on the > >> >back of the CRT and skewed it far enough to bust that little tit. > >That was me. I heard this unmistakable noise and just sat there, a victim > >of my own carelessness. Me too! Except that is generic mono monitor. The chassis was too flexiable and it tipped down, slewing that CRT board. Snap+hiss! Replaced it at my expenese out of my only working monitor. :-O > > > >> The SEs also had those bad hard drives... the Principal > >> Secretary actually had a large screw driver next to his SE... Every time > the > >> drive wouldn't spin up he would beat the crap out of it. Apple came down > and > >> they agreed to replace all the flaky hard drives free immediately. > > > >I still have a Quantum PD1800S that has stiction. I paid $1100 for it new > >and they didn't consider it to be a warrantable problem. I'll never buy > from > >them again. > > The primary cause is bad cooling for those hot running HDs, I'm not putting the Quantum in with that offenders for that problems, it wasn't the bearing, it was grabby platters. True cause are too many spin ups and shutdowns, letting it run too hot caused the grabby platters. Grabby platters happens because the lube ran out from center by flinging action when real hot. Heads happens to park at inner cylinders and you'll know what happens... > This brings back really funny memories. Every so often I'd get called out to ...Snip!... > come up to their Mac and punch it really hard. [you *had* to see their > faces.]. Then. hear the drive spin up and walk away. That punching that thing is what jarred free those grabby platters. That is only treating the symtoms. The true fix is new HD and new 3.9uF 250V NP cap & yoke male connector, resolder the trouble spots. Use screensaver always. Customers pays the backup job and teach them to do it regliously. --------------- Yes and that is what Quantum did. We always used screen savers (home brewed for security), and getting users to backup or even server based backups are headaches... Most people don't like to do it.. most forget to leave their computer off.. we sent them warnings and they did not care until they lost everything. > Those quantum drives were awful. As back up policies were rarely adhered to > it was my job to pull the drives apart and get the data out at any cost.... It wasn't the quantum's problems. I see Conners and few others that were being cooking inside those hot boxens without good cooling go bad. The best solution is cooler running HDs for those boxens that do have poor cooling design. --------------------- No other drive (and we had every mac and every possible drive including): Conners Quantum IBM i think Seagate had this problem BUT quantum. In fact, we never had a sticky platter in 10 years across a few thousand computers except for quantum. > (were talking replacing the motor). A rep and engineer from quantum came by > to see what I was doing.... They weren't going to replace the new drive that > I had cannibalized until they were told we had enough of their broken > garbage.. Wow. HOW on earth that is possible!? the motor spindle casing is pressed into spindle axle. That casing has to go in order to get at coil assembly. Yes I played with those dead quantum 40S, 80S and any 105S HH 3.5" ones that used both optical + sectors feedback tracking. These dead ones died bec of grabby platters getting too great to overcome and platters starts to lose data bits and the bearings were still good and like new. Those ones that overheated platters looks defect-free, no 4-pits and no crash trackings but difference is it lost the surface lube/finish. ----------------------------------------------------------- If I could not spin the platter by hand I would remove the platters and put them in a new drive. We have a clean room for that purpose. It got impossible on the larger, newer drives. There is a data recovery shop in North Bay that does this kind of work too. After getting the drive spun up I would use a SCSI util to make an image copy of what it could to a new drive. Sometimes when the data was really badly beaten or the dir was toasted I wrote some apps that would seek out known headers and copy huge blocks and try and put the data back together. Our communications server went down once and we lost all of our PageMaker files. The drive had destroyed most of the directory entries.... so I was pulling off huge chunks of pagemaker files and putting them back together. Other projects of interest I had to do back in the early '90s were : Screen Saver & Shredder (write 3 times over data put in trash) - If I remember correctly I patched the "DrawMenuBar".. this handled the screen saver [security]. The shredder of course wiped out all file data 3X when trash was emptied. Patch System File - RESOURCE was ZSYS or SYSZ?? (It's been a while..1992)... all assembly language.. This program had to be able to attach itself to other computers on other nets and report back by talking to a major public domain server. It checked the server for "remote commands" inside a hypercard file and executed them. It was 2.4K (68000). It also had to get around Sam Intercept... that was pretty easy. This will probably be in a book in 2004 when I can talk about it in detail. many other projects but too recent to list yet. --- Even fabled Barracudas die from heat. I recently aquired one that is still good (ST12550N) and experimented on it. Heated up like mad without airflow. Still will heat up even case w/ hd inside with some airflow. Noted that and knew this by reputation and I put a muffin fan at front end blowing on the "steel cage" and allowing free air rush across the top circuit. Cool temp as it should be with this simple fan solution. > > I still have a Quantum PD1800S that has stiction. I paid $1100 for > it new and they didn't consider it to be a warrantable problem. > I'll never buy from them again. > > > -ethan Ethan, my curious: that HD, did it run hot or bit too much warm? That is the primary problem. PD1800S is old design and runs hot. Did that HD sit all cooped up behind bezel or internally? My HDs now are mounted in new ways with bigger open or 3.5" bezel left off and they run at room temp or less. INCLUDING that "new" WD 9.1GB expert 7200rpm. The old LPS 540 is still living daily serving as data archival along with bit more warmer fireball EX. CR, CX and any fireballs run bit more warm or hot when cooling is poor. ---------------------- I have lost 4 Micropolis 4345WS drives over the past couple of years due to heat. I gave up on standard mouting and just stuffed an old mini fan right above it. john http://www.pdp8.com/ Wizard > john From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 7 17:14:31 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <384D8B07.6F61FDE7@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Dec 7, 99 02:32:39 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1183 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991207/74ade485/attachment.ksh From ndiablo at diablonet.net Tue Dec 7 19:04:26 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: CliniComp Computer and IP address Message-ID: <19991208010426.7469.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Hmm... I've never seen any of the systems like you describe, but I would guess that the RJ45 jack is probably just standard 10Base-T Ethernet (or if the machine is really strange, Token Ring, but I would doubt that). If you've got a small network onhand with a machine capable of serving BOOTP, you might want to try turning on the BOOTP server to see if you can pick up the request from the machine (BOOTP is a rather standard way of doing such things).. you could pick up the MAC address of the system's Ethernet device by running a sniffer like TCPdump when it is broadcasting looking for an IP. _NO_ idea what this little bugger might have ran, though.. perhaps some variety of stylus-enabled DOS/Win 3.1 or something along those lines, i'd imagine. -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 7 18:14:14 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? References: Message-ID: <384DA2D6.82D6F500@rain.org> Tony Duell wrote: > > > I'll second that! I had been looking for quite a while for the floppy disk > > controller that supports a wide range of formats (mind blank - I can't > > Compaticard? That's it. I have a friend that I think has the disk, etc. that came with it so it is just a matter of him finding it for me to have a fairly complete setup. > Some people are prepared to pay to have exactly the board they want found > for them, etc. Others prefer to spend less money but to take the time to > dig through such boxes. I'm certainly the latter.. I sure fall into that latter classification also. Going through packed garages, etc. is my idea of an ideal form of recreation. One of these days, I'll start going through my garage again, and it will be like Christmas finding all sorts of neat toys to fondle and play around with :). From elvey at hal.com Tue Dec 7 18:29:05 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel i2920 IC was Re: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199912080029.QAA07499@civic.hal.com> ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) wrote: > > Also, Tony, there was an error in the reset circuit that > > caused flaky reset on some UPP units ( most that made it to > > Is this a general UPP problem? As I mentioned I don't have the 2920 card, > only the 2708 and 2716 (I think) ones. Hi Tony When we saw the problem on the 2920, I'm not sure if anyone looked into the effects on the other parts. I don't think it would effect the 2708's but that part of the circuit was vary similar to the 2716 programmer. I might just be that the 2716's were more forgiving of a slight overshot because I never saw this as a problem on any of the other boards, while I was there. I found the problem while verifying my test program for the board. I personally blew up 3 chips before catching it. I told the guy that was to do the testing, on swing, to not test any more that evening and a ECR would be done in the morning. That night he blew up the rest of the limited quantity we had on hand. His supervisor had asked him to test the boards and he never told his supervisor that he couldn't because I had told him that he shouldn't. He got a bad mark on his quarterly and it took us 6 weeks to get more parts to test with. I'd have talked to his supervisor but no one knew where he was that night or if he would be in. I thought it would be enough to tell the guy that was actually going to do the work but I guess I was wrong. > > > the field with this problem ). Some units were more sensitive > > than others. If you write back I can describe the problem > > and what I remember as the fix. > > Please do. I don't have the UPP in use at the moment, but I may well use > it sometime (it's the only thing I have that does 2708s), and I can try > the fix. I know I have the hardware manual and schematics for it somewhere. I think I can work from the schematics. It was a problem with reset. The 4040 had the reset signal inverted from the 4001's and 4002's. The problem was that the 4040 was released from reset before the 4001's This meant that the first instruction was garbled. If you look at the circuit, you'll see that there was a transistor that was used to invert these two signal. There was enough delay caused by this slow transistor inverter that is was flaky. What the fix was is that the reset source was feed through a spare inverter and the signals were swapped to the 4040 with the rest of the reset lines. This was found towards the end of the product life so I doubt that yours has this fixed. Dwight From devilmaster at fastermail.com Tue Dec 7 18:35:59 1999 From: devilmaster at fastermail.com (john white) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: I need... Message-ID: <19991208003559.98583.qmail@fastermail.com> Peach and sega master drive 2 -- __________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.fastermail.com powered by OutBlaze From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 7 18:56:13 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <384DA2D6.82D6F500@rain.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Marvin wrote: > > > Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > I'll second that! I had been looking for quite a while for the floppy disk > > > controller that supports a wide range of formats (mind blank - I can't > > > > Compaticard? > > That's it. I have a friend that I think has the disk, etc. that came with it > so it is just a matter of him finding it for me to have a fairly complete > setup. It is simpler than that, as the latest revision software is available on MicroSolutions' website. - don > > > Some people are prepared to pay to have exactly the board they want found > > for them, etc. Others prefer to spend less money but to take the time to > > dig through such boxes. I'm certainly the latter.. > > I sure fall into that latter classification also. Going through packed > garages, etc. is my idea of an ideal form of recreation. One of these days, > I'll start going through my garage again, and it will be like Christmas > finding all sorts of neat toys to fondle and play around with :). > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 7 17:39:38 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Busting TRS-80 M2 CRTs (was: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991207171821.00986540@207.207.0.212> from "Arfon Gryffydd" at Dec 7, 99 05:18:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1594 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991207/81b2292c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 7 19:01:12 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <384DA2D6.82D6F500@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Dec 7, 99 04:14:14 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 480 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991208/033b3d7b/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 7 19:03:46 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Intel i2920 IC was Re: Intel Intellec 8 computer????? In-Reply-To: <199912080029.QAA07499@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at Dec 7, 99 04:29:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1081 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991208/1e7a52cd/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 7 19:52:40 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:10 2005 Subject: Early Hayes Modems References: <19991208010426.7469.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Message-ID: <384DB9E8.F32BAB55@rain.org> I just ran across some early Hayes Microcouplers and am curious what were the first products manufactured by Hayes. The one here is labeled "Microcoupler" has a hand engraved serial number of 216902. Unfortunately no docs came with it. Also, anyone know if the serial numbers were sequential, or were they some sort of code? Somehow it would seem if the numebers were sequential, they sure made a lot of them! Marvin From bobstek at ix.netcom.com Tue Dec 7 19:52:27 1999 From: bobstek at ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Priceless historic CP/M documents now available In-Reply-To: <19991208003559.98583.qmail@fastermail.com> Message-ID: I recently picked up a Lobo Max-80 system. Accompanying the system were 2 manuals, apparently xeroxed and in pressboard covers, which I thought might be of interest to someone here. Because they appear xeroxed (double-sided, 8.5 x 11), I doubt that they are originals, but given the methods of documentation production way back then, I really don't know. Both may be of more interest for the nostalgic collector rather than of any great historic interest, (or for someone who doesn't have copies of the "final" documentation). But given that disclaimer, this is what I have: CP/M 3 Operating System: User's Guide, Programmer's Guide, and Programmer's Utility Guide. Labeled "Preliminary: November 1982 Final Technical Review Complete In Production for Final Edit and Graphics" AND CP/M-68K Operating System Beta Documentation rubber-stamped "PRELIMINARY" and "STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL" on several pages. Labeled "First Edition: October 1982" If anyone is interested in either or both of these, email me an offer I can't refuse (i.e., an unbuilt Altair or IMSAI kit, a non-functional Apple I, or possibly a few bucks for packaging and postage). Most interesting bid by December 15th accepted, void where prohibited by law, licensed drivers only, batteries not included. Decision of the judges can be swayed with an appropriate bribe. (Obviously if I were going for the BIG BUCKS, this would be professionally hyped on eBay. So it's just going to comp.os.cpm and to the classiccmp list members.) Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs (In case my tongue-in-cheek humor is somewhat muted by the medium, I am NOT willing to pay postage to get rid of these. But I will accept anything over and above that amount!) From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 7 20:39:32 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Priceless historic CP/M documents now available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would be very interested in hearing any hypothesis of how CP/M-68K could be used with a Lobo! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Bob Stek wrote: > I recently picked up a Lobo Max-80 system. Accompanying the system were 2 > manuals, apparently xeroxed and in pressboard covers, which I thought might > be of interest to someone here. Because they appear xeroxed (double-sided, > 8.5 x 11), I doubt that they are originals, but given the methods of > documentation production way back then, I really don't know. Both may be of > more interest for the nostalgic collector rather than of any great historic > interest, (or for someone who doesn't have copies of the "final" > documentation). But given that disclaimer, this is what I have: > > CP/M 3 Operating System: User's Guide, Programmer's Guide, and Programmer's > Utility Guide. Labeled "Preliminary: November 1982 Final Technical Review > Complete In Production for Final Edit and Graphics" > > AND > > CP/M-68K Operating System Beta Documentation rubber-stamped > "PRELIMINARY" and "STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL" on several pages. Labeled "First > Edition: October 1982" > > > If anyone is interested in either or both of these, email me an offer I > can't refuse (i.e., an unbuilt Altair or IMSAI kit, a non-functional Apple > I, or possibly a few bucks for packaging and postage). Most interesting bid > by December 15th accepted, void where prohibited by law, licensed drivers > only, batteries not included. Decision of the judges can be swayed with an > appropriate bribe. (Obviously if I were going for the BIG BUCKS, this would > be professionally hyped on eBay. So it's just going to comp.os.cpm and to > the classiccmp list members.) > > Bob Stek > bobstek@ix.netcom.com > Saver of Lost SOLs > > (In case my tongue-in-cheek humor is somewhat muted by the medium, I am NOT > willing to pay postage to get rid of these. But I will accept anything over > and above that amount!) > From gregorym at cadvision.com Tue Dec 7 20:45:45 1999 From: gregorym at cadvision.com (Mark Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Hyperion [WAS: Re: Looking for ] Message-ID: <004b01bf4126$53cefce0$08a2fea9@hal-9000-2> David, I have tangible proof that at least part of your history is wrong. I have a Comterm Hyperion, model number 3032, serial number 3008, date code Aug. 83, sitting in front of me right now. It is _the same machine_ as the Dynalogic Hyperion. Looks just like this, except different drive doors: http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/HYPN.HTM Proof? The name "Comterm" on my serial number plate is actually a metallic sticker; underneath it says "Dynalogic Info-Tech Corporation, Ottawa, Canada". So the timeline must go: Dynalogic Comterm Bytec (?? never heard of them ??) I have _never_ heard of Commodore producing this machine - Cameron Kaiser's extensive "Secret Weapon's of Commodore" site - http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ckb/secret/ - doesn't mention it either. I think your source got Comterm and Commodore mixed up. Regards, Mark Gregory -----Original Message----- From: David Vohs To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 4:05 PM Subject: Re: Looking for... >> >I am looking for the following items. (Get ready, this is going to be a >> >pretty varied list!) >> > >> >----Pictures of Computers---- >> >Commodore Hyperion (looks like a Dynalogic Hyperion, & could be the same >> >thing?) >> >> >>Do you mean a ComTerm Hyperion? AFAIK, Comterm was the Canadian company >>that manufactured the Hyperion for a while, not Commodore. Commodore >>didn't get into the PC clone business until the PC-10 (unless you >>count the A1000 Sidecar). >> >>Regards, >>Mark > >No, I don't mean the ComTerm Hyperion. When I said Commodore Hyperion, I'm >not bullsh!tting, I actually mean Commodore Hyperion. All I know is that it >looks like the Dynalogic Hyperion. > >By the way, ComTerm didn't make the Hyperion, a company called Dynalogic >did. It sold relatively well (well, considering the state of the IBM clone >market in early 1983). Not too long after they released the Hyperion, they >were bought out by a company called Bytec, & they sold the Hyperion under >the Bytec name. Later still, Compaq released the famous Compaq Portable, & >we all know what happened from there (wither Bytec/Dynalogic). > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991207/0a98522c/attachment.html From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 7 21:59:30 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Priceless historic CP/M documents now available References: Message-ID: <384DD7A2.A5927803@rain.org> Bob Stek wrote: > > I recently picked up a Lobo Max-80 system. Accompanying the system were 2 > manuals, apparently xeroxed and in pressboard covers, which I thought might > be of interest to someone here. Because they appear xeroxed (double-sided, > 8.5 x 11), I doubt that they are originals, but given the methods of > documentation production way back then, I really don't know. Both may be of > more interest for the nostalgic collector rather than of any great historic > interest, (or for someone who doesn't have copies of the "final" > documentation). But given that disclaimer, this is what I have: Interesting! The manuals I have sound similar to what you have except they are not in pressboard covers. One of these days, I need to get in touch with Roger Billings, the person who started Lobo drives, and find out what the situation is on those manuals. The ones I have are also marked preliminary and have a number of editorial comments and marks in them that appear to be corrections/additions for the production manuals. From musicman38 at mindspring.com Tue Dec 7 22:09:28 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: CliniComp Computer and IP address Message-ID: <001c01bf4132$265d9260$e2348ad1@home> Subject: Re: CliniComp Computer and IP address >Hmm... I've never seen any of the systems like you describe, but I would >guess that the RJ45 jack is probably just standard 10Base-T Ethernet >(or if the machine is really strange, Token Ring, but I would doubt that). >If you've got a small network onhand with a machine capable of serving >BOOTP, you might want to try turning on the BOOTP server to see if >you can pick up the request from the machine (BOOTP is a rather standard >way of doing such things).. you could pick up the MAC address of the >system's Ethernet device by running a sniffer like TCPdump when it >is broadcasting looking for an IP. > >_NO_ idea what this little bugger might have ran, though.. perhaps some >variety of stylus-enabled DOS/Win 3.1 or something along those lines, >i'd imagine. > >-Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) As far as the Network Interface is concerned I have seen Network cards that also had auto boot eproms on them so the intended computer did not need a Floppy or a Hard Drive to attach to the server. I think this may be the same setup.. The whole computer sort of looks like a Picture Frame its only 2 inches deep and measures 15 by 15 inches.. The whole computer is inside this little frame. Very rugged and expensive looking, as most medical equipment usually is.. The fact it has a 286 processor I am hopeful it used DOS as an OS, but there is no way at this point to tell. If it does not than it is worthless to me.... This computer has an excellent Display and I think displayed some sort of medical graphics on it. One of the finest Displays I have ever seen for its age. It has an eprom that I would think has the whole Boot strap programmed on it including the serial number on it, that also shows up on the display as it boots, but who knows what OS this little bugger used. It also has 3 other eprom sockets unoccupied.. I see that CliniComp, has a website at www.Clinicomp.com , but I do not see this machine on it, no doubt discontinued.. Would be nice if I could find a Tech Person at the site willing to get me some info on it, but that may be a long shot.. Anyway thanks for the ideas, I will try them.. Phil.. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Dec 7 22:43:07 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Stiction (was Re: Busting CRTs) Message-ID: <19991208044307.4984.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> --- John B wrote: I wrote: > > I still have a Quantum PD1800S that has stiction. > Ethan, my curious: that HD, did it run hot or bit too much warm? > That is the primary problem. PD1800S is old design and runs hot. > Did that HD sit all cooped up behind bezel or internally? It was the only drive in a SPARC 1 (then moved to a SPARC 2, now it's on top of a Sparc LX in its own case) It works fine, it just glues the heads down to the platters on power-down. I don't power it off on purpose, but we lost power for six hours last month, and *grab*. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From enrico.badella at softstar.it Wed Dec 8 04:47:26 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: iapx 432 was Re: Intel i2920 IC was ..... References: Message-ID: <384E373E.AB2B0CFA@softstar.it> Hi all, All this Intellec talk made me remember that in my pile of old tapes I have a 432 VAX/VMS ADA Compiler System V 1.0 that states clearly what it is ;-) With these I also have VAX/UNIX ACS 432/Link-432 V2.3 and VAX/UNIX iMAX 432 V3.3. Anybody knows what they are? 'When is was young' (sounding like my grandfather) I remember reading the Intel Databooks about 432 and not understanding much. At that time, probably 1983, I had to work with 8086 architecture and started hating it since my only previous real experience was PDP-11. Anybody on the list that did some work with iAPX 432 and cares recollecting TIA e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Wed Dec 8 04:46:20 1999 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. Message-ID: >> available soon. He says one is a "NCR 400" and the other is a "NCR 450". >> Both have non-functional tape drives (don't know the problem) and are >> running SCO Unix. >> Does anyone know anything about these machines? Hmm, I don't think any of the Tower series are PC-based clones; they're all fully-functional Unix boxes. I didn't know they'd run SCO though, my Tower runs NCR's SVR3. I scrapped what I seem to remember was a Tower 400 about 6 years ago; it had a tape drive in it (custom controller I think), MFM disks (about 200MB worth), think it was a 68010 CPU. I've got a Tower 700 which was a later model - 32MB main memory (actually 39MB ECC), 68030, 8 serial lines, 780MB SCSI (2 disks), 10Mbps ethernet, 150MB tape (also SCSI). There may have been a SCSI option for the 400 series. I have a few docs somewhere which I might be able to hunt down if you need more info. Certainly the 700 I have is quite a nice machine - there's enough 68xxx series processors in it for all the subsystems that it runs pretty nicely. I was lucky enough to have X Windows installed too. I can't speak for the 400 that I broke up as one of the disks in it was toasted so I never saw it running. I'd say they're worth having if you have space and can transport them (pretty heavy beasts). You may be lucky enough to get an ethernet controller or two as well - I gather that these aren't too common - then they'll hook up to just about anything. Oh, if you get a chance can you see if there's any OS tapes lying around?? I haven't got installation media for my 700 so when one of the disks goes I'm in trouble... I'm not sure how NCR shipped OS tapes and whether one tape would cover a series of Tower systems or not... cheers Jules > From bobstek at ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 8 06:20:56 1999 From: bobstek at ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Priceless historic CP/M documents now available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It was probably put under the rear edge of the Lobo to make the typing angle more comfortable (this is what became known as "user-friendly documentation.") -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 9:40 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Priceless historic CP/M documents now available I would be very interested in hearing any hypothesis of how CP/M-68K could be used with a Lobo! -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Bob Stek wrote: > I recently picked up a Lobo Max-80 system. Accompanying the system were 2 > manuals, apparently xeroxed and in pressboard covers, which I thought might > be of interest to someone here. Because they appear xeroxed (double-sided, > 8.5 x 11), I doubt that they are originals, but given the methods of > documentation production way back then, I really don't know. Both may be of > more interest for the nostalgic collector rather than of any great historic > interest, (or for someone who doesn't have copies of the "final" > documentation). But given that disclaimer, this is what I have: > > CP/M 3 Operating System: User's Guide, Programmer's Guide, and Programmer's > Utility Guide. Labeled "Preliminary: November 1982 Final Technical Review > Complete In Production for Final Edit and Graphics" > > AND > > CP/M-68K Operating System Beta Documentation rubber-stamped > "PRELIMINARY" and "STRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL" on several pages. Labeled "First > Edition: October 1982" > > > If anyone is interested in either or both of these, email me an offer I > can't refuse (i.e., an unbuilt Altair or IMSAI kit, a non-functional Apple > I, or possibly a few bucks for packaging and postage). Most interesting bid > by December 15th accepted, void where prohibited by law, licensed drivers > only, batteries not included. Decision of the judges can be swayed with an > appropriate bribe. (Obviously if I were going for the BIG BUCKS, this would > be professionally hyped on eBay. So it's just going to comp.os.cpm and to > the classiccmp list members.) > > Bob Stek > bobstek@ix.netcom.com > Saver of Lost SOLs > > (In case my tongue-in-cheek humor is somewhat muted by the medium, I am NOT > willing to pay postage to get rid of these. But I will accept anything over > and above that amount!) > From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Dec 8 08:19:55 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 for Scrap References: <007701bf40d3$bad71c40$c56465cc@default> Message-ID: <384E690B.7C63A981@idirect.com> I have a lead on a PDP-11/70 in the western states. Fully equipped I hear. I doubt that anyone would want to rescue it - there have been too many around. But, just in case. It should be in working condition. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From emu at ecubics.com Wed Dec 8 08:33:23 1999 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 for Scrap References: <007701bf40d3$bad71c40$c56465cc@default> <384E690B.7C63A981@idirect.com> Message-ID: <006b01bf4189$350fb4d0$5d01a8c0@ecubuero> ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerome Fine To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 7:19 AM Subject: PDP-11/70 for Scrap > I have a lead on a PDP-11/70 in the western states. Which specific state ? > Fully equipped I hear. > I doubt that anyone would want to rescue it - there have been > too many around. But, just in case. It should be in working condition. If it's near by, i woudl think about it ... cheers, emanuel From steverob at hotoffice.com Wed Dec 8 08:31:48 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. Message-ID: <01BF415F.0DA44070.steverob@hotoffice.com> > > I'd say they're worth having if you have space and can transport them > (pretty heavy beasts). You may be lucky enough to get an ethernet > controller or two as well - I gather that these aren't too common - then > they'll hook up to just about anything. > > Oh, if you get a chance can you see if there's any OS tapes lying > around?? I haven't got installation media for my 700 so when one of the > disks goes I'm in trouble... I'm not sure how NCR shipped OS tapes and > whether one tape would cover a series of Tower systems or not... > > cheers > > Jules > Thanks for the info Jules :-) Since these aren't just PC clones, I'm gonna go ahead a grab em. Don't really need more *junk* laying around, but what the heck. They aren't too far away and I do have a pickup truck. I'll ask about the OS installation tapes if they're available, I'll let you know. See ya, Steve Robertson - From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Dec 8 09:31:18 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. Message-ID: <19991208.095823.164.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:31:48 -0500 Steve Robertson writes: > > Thanks for the info Jules :-) > > Since these aren't just PC clones, I'm gonna go ahead a grab em. > Don't really need more *junk* laying around, but what the heck. They > aren't too far away and I do have a pickup truck. If they're anything like the one I have, a small forklift would be *very* helpful. These suckers weigh a *ton*. I think I have a Model 1632 (it's been awhile since I've looked). 4mb, 68010 @ 10MHz, MFM drives. Runs SVR3. Won't even support *BSD. Bummer. These use Multibus cards, I think NCR used an Emulex ethernet controller, supporting NCR's own arcane networking protocol. The install tape I have for it implies that this beast supported an MMU, though (although mine is not so equipped). ANyone know how they did this? According to my manuals, the TOWER supported SCSI and ESDI drives. I speculate that they used off-the-shelf multibus boards for these; the tape controller is a stock unit made by CIPRICO (IIRC). The MFM disk controller was made by NCR, but it looks like a 'cookbook' design using the WD-100x chipset. Years ago, I passed on an upgrade kit to make it into a 68020. Another one of those overpriced 'Wierdstuff' deals (sigh). Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 8 10:37:24 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. Message-ID: <001501bf419a$84581f80$0400c0a8@winbook> -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey l Kaneko To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 9:11 AM Subject: Re: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. >MFM disk controller was made by NCR, but it looks like a 'cookbook' >design using the WD-100x chipset. > SMILE when you say that, pahdnuh! That cookbook design is what made the microwinchester drive so simple to include that anyone with two grey cells and a little PLL knowledge could put together a winchester interface. That's why they became so cheap. It was the only way to do your own controller at a competitive price for several years, until SMC brought out their 9224 chip. Unfortunately, by that time the patent on RLL recording had expired, so everybody wanted RLL. Dick From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Wed Dec 8 10:35:04 1999 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. Message-ID: >> If they're anything like the one I have, a small forklift would be >> *very* helpful. These suckers weigh a *ton*. yep, that sounds familiar :) >> I think I have a >> Model 1632 (it's been awhile since I've looked). 4mb, 68010 >> @ 10MHz, MFM drives. Runs SVR3. Won't even support *BSD. Bummer. Unisys also made the same machines at one point but with different badges on the front apparently, plus NCR had 'internal' model numbers (I guess that's what 1632 is!). > >> These use Multibus cards, I think NCR used an Emulex ethernet >> controller, supporting NCR's own arcane networking protocol. The >> install tape I have for it implies that this beast supported an MMU, >> though (although mine is not so equipped). ANyone know how they did >> this? I've hooked one of these things up to a 10Mbps LAN before along with a Linux box and run remote X programs and stuff, so they do talk TCP/IP quite happily. Not sure about the MMU - I think by the time things had progressed to the 68030 the MMU was built in?? (I easily could be wrong there; aside from the Amiga 500 I haven't had much dealing with 68xxx chips). The system boards on these things are huge though - something like 1x4 feet if I remember correctly. My system had sat idle for a while and didn't boot the last time I tried it about a year ago; I'm hoping that's something simple rather than a crack in one of the boards somewhere. >> According to my manuals, the TOWER supported SCSI and ESDI drives. >> I speculate that they used off-the-shelf multibus boards for these; >> the tape controller is a stock unit made by CIPRICO (IIRC). The >> MFM disk controller was made by NCR, but it looks like a 'cookbook' >> design using the WD-100x chipset. not sure about the SCSI controller - I remember it having a fair amount of cache memory on it and quite a few processor chips of assorted kinds. I actually have the MFM controller with me at home (along with a serial IO board) but the rest of the Tower stuff is back at my folks place. to the original poster: the console connection was a bit strange I seem to remember and needed a custom cable - I do have pinouts someplace if needed... the BNC connector at the base of the machine (I think all Towers had these?) is for some sort of remote power control (certainly my '700 will keep memory contents refreshed in a power cut for several hours) - don't plug an ethernet network in here as you'll likely fry something quite nicely!! cheers Jules > From steverob at hotoffice.com Wed Dec 8 10:41:10 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. Message-ID: <01BF4171.20335C50.steverob@hotoffice.com> On Wednesday, December 08, 1999 10:31 AM, Jeffrey l Kaneko [SMTP:jeff.kaneko@juno.com] wrote: > > > > Since these aren't just PC clones, I'm gonna go ahead a grab em. > > Don't really need more *junk* laying around, but what the heck. They > > aren't too far away and I do have a pickup truck. > > If they're anything like the one I have, a small forklift would be > *very* helpful. These suckers weigh a *ton*. I think I have a > Model 1632 (it's been awhile since I've looked). 4mb, 68010 > @ 10MHz, MFM drives. Runs SVR3. Won't even support *BSD. Bummer. > Got a message back from the owner stating that the 400 can be managed by one man. I might pick that one up this weekend. Apparently, the 450 is considerably bigger and heavier. Since it won't be available for a couple of months, I'll have time to do some planning. See Ya, Steve Robertson - From steverob at hotoffice.com Wed Dec 8 10:45:55 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. Message-ID: <01BF4171.CA3B7F70.steverob@hotoffice.com> > > the console connection was a bit strange I seem to remember and needed > a custom cable - I do have pinouts someplace if needed... > the BNC connector at the base of the machine (I think all Towers had > these?) is for some sort of remote power control (certainly my '700 will > keep memory contents refreshed in a power cut for several hours) - don't > plug an ethernet network in here as you'll likely fry something quite > nicely!! > One of the machines is still in service so, I'll look at the console conections on that system. The owner also stated that he has a "cable" that supports up to 4 terminals. That should make it simple. See Ya, Steve Robertson - From JRichardson at softwright.co.uk Wed Dec 8 11:03:28 1999 From: JRichardson at softwright.co.uk (Julian Richardson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. Message-ID: >> One of the machines is still in service so, I'll look at the console >> conections on that system. The owner also stated that he has a "cable" that >> supports up to 4 terminals. That should make it simple. woah - our email system's actually running at something faster than a crawl!! :) My memory's hazy on this but I seem to recall the following: There's two connectors on the back of the machine labelled 'A' and 'B' - one a 9-pin connector and one a 15-pin. 'A' is for the console terminal and 'B' is for a remote diagnostic modem (ie. a remote terminal). Regular serial lines are of two forms: a bunch of 15-pin connectors at the back, or a smaller number of larger connectors (I seem to remember my 700 having the latter but the serial card I have that I pulled from that old 400 has the former). I think what the current owner of 'your' machine has is a breakout box which converts one big connector to several smaller, individual serial lines. I *think* via software you could say where the console was - on the dedicated console port (which plugged into the system backplane if I remember right), or on one of the serial board's tty lines. I'm not sure if there were restrictions in doing this; I suppose there's nothing special about port 'A' - it's just that a machine might not have any serial boards installed. Corrections to that are welcome from other list members, as it's been several years since I seriously played with one of these systems! bye! Jules > From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Dec 8 11:27:07 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Looking for... Commodore Hyperion In-Reply-To: <19991207230434.16832.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991208112707.00f19bd0@pc> At 11:04 PM 12/7/99 GMT, David Vohs wrote: > >No, I don't mean the ComTerm Hyperion. When I said Commodore Hyperion, I'm >not bullsh!tting, I actually mean Commodore Hyperion. All I know is that it >looks like the Dynalogic Hyperion. Did you try an 'all' www.deja.com search on "commodore hyperion"? I did, and it turned up several messages describing this system. It sounds like a MS-DOS (but not IBM PC-compatible) system that Commodore explored around 1984. - John From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Dec 8 11:27:36 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. Message-ID: <19991208.113948.153.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:37:24 -0700 "Richard Erlacher" writes: > >MFM disk controller was made by NCR, but it looks like a 'cookbook' > >design using the WD-100x chipset. > > > > SMILE when you say that, pahdnuh! That cookbook design is what made > the microwinchester drive so simple to include that anyone with two grey > cells and a little PLL knowledge could put together a winchester > interface. That's why they became so cheap. It was the only way to do your own > controller at a competitive price for several years, until SMC brought out > their 9224 chip. Unfortunately, by that time the patent on RLL recording > had expired, so everybody wanted RLL. Well, I merely wanted to state that while NCR 'rolled their own', it really wasn't anything special. The wd-100x chipset certainly was revolutionary, however. That meant almost anyone with a wire-wrap tool and enough parts could interface a winchester to just about anything (like say, a Xerox machine?). That was a major breakthrough in 1981, but by 1984 (when my machine was built), it was pretty standard. Who held the patent on RLL, and (consequently) lost their shirt when it became standard on 'smart' disk drives? Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Dec 8 11:39:13 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. Message-ID: <19991208.113949.153.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:35:04 -0000 Julian Richardson writes: > Unisys also made the same machines at one point but with different > badges on the front apparently, plus NCR had 'internal' model > numbers (I guess that's what 1632 is!). Okay, so now I have to go into the basement, and re-read the serial plate. NCR's numbering scheme is *not* intuitive. > I've hooked one of these things up to a 10Mbps LAN before along with > a Linux box and run remote X programs and stuff, so they do talk > TCP/IP quite happily. I think that mostly applies to the '020 machines and higher. When I first got my machine, I was told that it didn't really support TCP/IP. >Not sure about the MMU - I think by the time things had > progressed to the 68030 the MMU was built in?? (I easily could be > wrong there; aside from the Amiga 500 I haven't had much dealing with > 68xxx chips). I'm pretty sure that's the case. The 68010 was kinda like the 80286-- some memory management was there, but it was considered kinda brain-dead. The 68020 was the real breakthrough. Operating systems for the 680x0 really took off after that. > The system boards on these things are huge though - something like > 1x4 feet if I remember correctly. That's about right. I have a complete set of spares in my closet. The system board is *huge*. > My system had sat idle for a while and > didn't boot the last time I tried it about a year ago; I'm hoping > that's something simple rather than a crack in one of the boards > somewhere. Now you've got me worried. I really ought to take time to fire up the thing. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From arfonrg at texas.net Wed Dec 8 11:43:27 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Busting TRS-80 M2 CRTs (was: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold price In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19991207171821.00986540@207.207.0.212> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991208114327.02eaa570@207.207.0.212> I guess with my last post, I should have included the tube information.... It's a Phillips 12VCMP4T tube. 7-pins. Any leads to inexpensive sources for a replacement tube? >> Hmmm, UPS just "safely let the air in (or vacuum out)" of a TRS-80 Model II >> CRT for me by breaking the tit. Wasn't that nice of them? >> >> Anyone know where I can get a replacement (hopefully without spending an >> arm and a leg)? What model(s) CRTs will work? >My experience with _mono_ CRTs in typical computers/terminals of the >1970's and 1980's (VGA and higher resoultions, workstations, and colour >CRTs are a whole new ballgame) are that there are basically 2 types : > >Narrow neck with a 7 pin 'modifed B7G' base (like a 7-pin miniature >valve, but with the sealing tube ('tit') in the middle) and a 12V heater > >Wide neck with an 8 pin B8H base and a 6.3V heater. > >The deflection angle on such tubes is 90 degrees. Pick one with the >appropriate screen size (12"?) and mountings. My guess is that if you put >in any similar CRT you'll be able to get a useable picture by jsut going >over the normal presets on the monitor PCB. Use the yoke off the old CRT >-- in other words keep the yoke with the electronics it goes with. Yokes >are much less generic that CRTs. > >FWIW, most MDA monitors and serial terminals used the 7 pin CRTs, which may >be a source of them. The pinout of such CRTs is : > >1 Control grid (G1) >2 Cathode (k) >3 Heater (h) >4 Heater (h) >5 Control grid (G1) >6 1st Anode (A1 or G2 (*)), 'Screen' control >7 3rd Anode (A3 or G4 (*)), 'Focus' control > >(*). In the UK, everything after the 1st grid is an anode. We call the >electrodes k, g1, a1, a2, a3,... >In the states, everything but the EHT elecrode is a grid. So you call >them k, g1, g2, g3, g4...a . ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 8 12:32:35 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. Message-ID: <003701bf41aa$bc9fd3a0$0400c0a8@winbook> I don't know this for certain, but I was once persuaded that IBM had held the patent on 2,7 RLL and let it expire in '83. There were, of course, lots of other run-length-limited codes which would also have worked, but the 2,7 was so well documented and worked so well, that everyone jumped on the bandwagon once it became available. Of course, WD came out with a chipset that supported RLL almost right away, too. They lost a lot of customers when they started making disk drives, though they're a major player in that realm now. I guess it worked out OK for them (WD). Dick -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey l Kaneko To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 10:47 AM Subject: Re: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. > > >On Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:37:24 -0700 "Richard Erlacher" >writes: >> >MFM disk controller was made by NCR, but it looks like a 'cookbook' >> >design using the WD-100x chipset. >> > >> >> SMILE when you say that, pahdnuh! That cookbook design is what made >> the microwinchester drive so simple to include that anyone with two >grey >> cells and a little PLL knowledge could put together a winchester >> interface. That's why they became so cheap. It was the only way to do >your own >> controller at a competitive price for several years, until SMC brought >out >> their 9224 chip. Unfortunately, by that time the patent on RLL >recording >> had expired, so everybody wanted RLL. > >Well, I merely wanted to state that while NCR 'rolled their own', >it really wasn't anything special. The wd-100x chipset certainly >was revolutionary, however. That meant almost anyone with a wire-wrap >tool and enough parts could interface a winchester to just about >anything (like say, a Xerox machine?). That was a major breakthrough >in 1981, but by 1984 (when my machine was built), it was pretty standard. > >Who held the patent on RLL, and (consequently) lost their shirt >when it became standard on 'smart' disk drives? > > >Jeff > > > >___________________________________________________________________ >Why pay more to get Web access? >Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! >Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 8 12:42:47 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: iapx 432 was Re: Intel i2920 IC was ..... In-Reply-To: <384E373E.AB2B0CFA@softstar.it> (message from Enrico Badella on Wed, 08 Dec 1999 11:47:26 +0100) References: <384E373E.AB2B0CFA@softstar.it> Message-ID: <19991208184247.7151.qmail@brouhaha.com> Enrico wrote: > I have a 432 VAX/VMS ADA Compiler System V 1.0 that states clearly what > it is ;-) With these I also have VAX/UNIX ACS 432/Link-432 V2.3 and > VAX/UNIX iMAX 432 V3.3. Anybody knows what they are? The ACS 432/Link 432 tape is a later version of the same thing (Ada Compiler System). Version 1 of the ACS required release 1.x components (or maybe release 2.x?). Version 2.3 and 2.7 require release 3.x components. There were substantial architectural changes in the components, so you have to have the right software. IIRC, Version 2.7 of the ACS and release 3.2 of the components were the last ones shipped to Intel customers, although I've seen release 3.3 components that were used internally for early software development for the Intel/Siemens joint project (code named Gemini, later sold as BiiN). iMAX 432 is the operating system that runs on the 432. I'm guessing that 3.3 works with ACS 2.3, but I don't know for sure. > Anybody on the list that did some work with iAPX 432 and cares recollecting I'm trying to, but haven't had much success yet. I've got some documentation, but no software yet. As hardware goes, I have two iSBC 432/100 eval boards that are missing the processor chips (rendering them completely useless), and an iSBC 432/602 Interface Processor board which is tagged "temperature sensitive". Even if the latter board works, it's useless by itself. The information I've compiled so far is at: http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/retrocomputing/intel/iapx432/ As I've indicated in private email, I'd love to get those tapes or copies of them. Thanks! Eric From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 8 12:43:51 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 for Scrap In-Reply-To: <384E690B.7C63A981@idirect.com> (message from Jerome Fine on Wed, 08 Dec 1999 09:19:55 -0500) References: <007701bf40d3$bad71c40$c56465cc@default> <384E690B.7C63A981@idirect.com> Message-ID: <19991208184351.7166.qmail@brouhaha.com> Jerome wrote: > I have a lead on a PDP-11/70 in the western states. Fully equipped > I hear. I doubt that anyone would want to rescue it - there have been > too many around. But, just in case. It should be in working condition. I've arguably got too many already, but if it's in northern California I suppose I might be interested. Do you have any more information? Cheers, Eric From mcguire at neurotica.com Wed Dec 8 13:29:12 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 for Scrap References: <384E690B.7C63A981@idirect.com> Message-ID: <99120814301805.16493@vault.neurotica.com> On Wed, 08 Dec 1999, Jerome Fine wrote: >I have a lead on a PDP-11/70 in the western states. Fully equipped >I hear. I doubt that anyone would want to rescue it - there have been >too many around. But, just in case. It should be in working condition. Too many around?! Argh. I need to move to the west coast. I'm in the DC area, and have been [sporadically] looking for an 11/70 for ages. Yes, I'm a whiner. ;) -Dave McGuire From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 8 13:41:06 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 for Scrap In-Reply-To: <99120814301805.16493@vault.neurotica.com> (message from Dave McGuire on Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:29:12 -0500) References: <384E690B.7C63A981@idirect.com> <99120814301805.16493@vault.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <19991208194106.7607.qmail@brouhaha.com> Jerome Fine wrote: > I have a lead on a PDP-11/70 in the western states. [...] I doubt that > anyone would want to rescue it - there have been too many around. Dave McGuire wrote: > Too many around?! > Argh. I need to move to the west coast. I'm in the DC area, and have been > [sporadically] looking for an 11/70 for ages. I didn't think I was ever going to find one, when one day (surprise!) there was a lot of seven of them available. My bid of $3500 was barely sufficient, and I've spent over $700 to transport them to storage and $480/month to store store them until I find homes for the extras. So I've got extras out here in California, but they ain't cheap. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 8 13:17:41 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Busting TRS-80 M2 CRTs (was: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991208114327.02eaa570@207.207.0.212> from "Arfon Gryffydd" at Dec 8, 99 11:43:27 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 693 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991208/040b19f1/attachment.ksh From chris at mainecoon.com Wed Dec 8 14:50:48 1999 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Data General MV/4000DC Documentation/Media References: <199912051856.NAA09607@lexington.ioa.net> Message-ID: <384EC4A7.FDEE6FCF@mainecoon.com> Technoid@cheta.net wrote: > Does anyone have documentation on this machine or the AOS/VS operating > system? Is it VS or VS/II? If it's VS I should still have boxes of stuff; what version of VS is it booting? > Does anyone have SYSTEM Media for this machine? uCode or VS media? I'm not sure if I have binaries; I believe I have a complete source set. > Does anyone have SOFTWARE for the machine? See above. Best, Chris -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From arfonrg at texas.net Wed Dec 8 15:30:20 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... In-Reply-To: <002f01bf3ead$9bac7c20$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991208153020.00923c50@207.207.0.212> Okay forgive my ignorance but.... Q1)Which way to power a telco line? (Note: subsitute "modem" for "telephone") A) Series? --------Battery---------- | | Telephone Telephone |_________________________| or B) Shunt? ------------------------- | | | Telephone Battery Telephone |____________|____________| Shunt seems more correct but, I think the power source's filtering would filter out the audio. Q2)Which lead is NORMALLY the positive (red or green)? ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 8 15:43:09 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. In-Reply-To: <003701bf41aa$bc9fd3a0$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I don't know this for certain, but I was once persuaded that IBM had held > the patent on 2,7 RLL and let it expire in '83. There were, of course, lots > of other run-length-limited codes which would also have worked, but the 2,7 > was so well documented and worked so well, that everyone jumped on the > bandwagon once it became available. Of course, WD came out with a chipset > that supported RLL almost right away, too. > > They lost a lot of customers when they started making disk drives, though > they're a major player in that realm now. I guess it worked out OK for them > (WD). I think that is problematic, Dick, when you look at the recent price of their stock - now sub $4. - don > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeffrey l Kaneko > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 10:47 AM > Subject: Re: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. > > > > > > > >On Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:37:24 -0700 "Richard Erlacher" > >writes: > >> >MFM disk controller was made by NCR, but it looks like a 'cookbook' > >> >design using the WD-100x chipset. > >> > > >> > >> SMILE when you say that, pahdnuh! That cookbook design is what made > >> the microwinchester drive so simple to include that anyone with two > >grey > >> cells and a little PLL knowledge could put together a winchester > >> interface. That's why they became so cheap. It was the only way to do > >your own > >> controller at a competitive price for several years, until SMC brought > >out > >> their 9224 chip. Unfortunately, by that time the patent on RLL > >recording > >> had expired, so everybody wanted RLL. > > > >Well, I merely wanted to state that while NCR 'rolled their own', > >it really wasn't anything special. The wd-100x chipset certainly > >was revolutionary, however. That meant almost anyone with a wire-wrap > >tool and enough parts could interface a winchester to just about > >anything (like say, a Xerox machine?). That was a major breakthrough > >in 1981, but by 1984 (when my machine was built), it was pretty standard. > > > >Who held the patent on RLL, and (consequently) lost their shirt > >when it became standard on 'smart' disk drives? > > > > > >Jeff > > > > > > > >___________________________________________________________________ > >Why pay more to get Web access? > >Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! > >Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. > > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 8 16:05:43 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. Message-ID: <005401bf41c8$5fc9f980$0400c0a8@winbook> Gee, that's too bad . . . I don't spend money on "the industry" so I don't follow the high-tech stocks. Maybe it didn't work so well over the long run. By the time they started making disk drives, it was so costly and difficult to build anything but an exact copy of IBM's circuitry for attaching a hard disk to a PC, which was by then the only mass market remaining fairly healthy, they probably felt they had little choice but to use their own devices rather than eat them. This probably alienated their customer base, but, since it was going away anyway . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 2:48 PM Subject: Re: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. > > >On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> I don't know this for certain, but I was once persuaded that IBM had held >> the patent on 2,7 RLL and let it expire in '83. There were, of course, lots >> of other run-length-limited codes which would also have worked, but the 2,7 >> was so well documented and worked so well, that everyone jumped on the >> bandwagon once it became available. Of course, WD came out with a chipset >> that supported RLL almost right away, too. >> >> They lost a lot of customers when they started making disk drives, though >> they're a major player in that realm now. I guess it worked out OK for them >> (WD). > >I think that is problematic, Dick, when you look at the recent price of >their stock - now sub $4. > > - don > >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jeffrey l Kaneko >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >> Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 10:47 AM >> Subject: Re: Free NCR tower in Miami FL. >> >> >> > >> > >> >On Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:37:24 -0700 "Richard Erlacher" >> >writes: >> >> >MFM disk controller was made by NCR, but it looks like a 'cookbook' >> >> >design using the WD-100x chipset. >> >> > >> >> >> >> SMILE when you say that, pahdnuh! That cookbook design is what made >> >> the microwinchester drive so simple to include that anyone with two >> >grey >> >> cells and a little PLL knowledge could put together a winchester >> >> interface. That's why they became so cheap. It was the only way to do >> >your own >> >> controller at a competitive price for several years, until SMC brought >> >out >> >> their 9224 chip. Unfortunately, by that time the patent on RLL >> >recording >> >> had expired, so everybody wanted RLL. >> > >> >Well, I merely wanted to state that while NCR 'rolled their own', >> >it really wasn't anything special. The wd-100x chipset certainly >> >was revolutionary, however. That meant almost anyone with a wire-wrap >> >tool and enough parts could interface a winchester to just about >> >anything (like say, a Xerox machine?). That was a major breakthrough >> >in 1981, but by 1984 (when my machine was built), it was pretty standard. >> > >> >Who held the patent on RLL, and (consequently) lost their shirt >> >when it became standard on 'smart' disk drives? >> > >> > >> >Jeff >> > >> > >> > >> >___________________________________________________________________ >> >Why pay more to get Web access? >> >Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! >> >Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. >> >> > From truthanl at oclc.org Wed Dec 8 16:18:21 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE44@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Ring-------------------- | C O = Transformer coupling coil at central office I L | | -48V | ------||||----R------ | | | | | C Filter | | |-------------R------ | | GND C O = transformercoupling coil at central office I L | Tip------------------- Here is a two wire subscriber loop -oversimplified? The R's in the line are typically 200 ohms Larry Truthan -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd [mailto:arfonrg@texas.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 4:30 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... Okay forgive my ignorance but.... Q1)Which way to power a telco line? (Note: subsitute "modem" for "telephone") A) Series? --------Battery---------- | | Telephone Telephone |_________________________| or B) Shunt? ------------------------- | | | Telephone Battery Telephone |____________|____________| Shunt seems more correct but, I think the power source's filtering would filter out the audio. Q2)Which lead is NORMALLY the positive (red or green)? ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 8 16:07:40 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 for Scrap Message-ID: <19991208220740.22722.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dave McGuire wrote: > Too many around?! > > Argh. I need to move to the west coast. I'm in the DC area, and have been > [sporadically] looking for an 11/70 for ages. I had to jump on a pair of them that were being shooed out the door here in Columbus, but, to my disappointment, do not have a proper frontpanel (no switches and blinkenlights, just a start button). If it's possible to retrofit a full console into a remote-diagnostic console machine, I'd love to find a console out there (preferably from a machine that is being parted out anyway - I wouldn't want to *cause* a machine to be disassembled). -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From jpero at cgocable.net Wed Dec 8 11:51:15 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Busting TRS-80 M2 CRTs (was: Busting CRTs (was Re: Gold In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.3.32.19991208114327.02eaa570@207.207.0.212> from "Arfon Gryffydd" at Dec 8, 99 11:43:27 am Message-ID: <199912082250.RAA25320@admin.cgocable.net> > > However, 7 pin CRTs are _common_. Just about every 12" mono monitor (MDA, > or TV rate) or old video terminal (VTxxx) will contain one. If you can > get a few such monitors for not much money, it's worth trying the CRTs in > your model 2. Most likely it'll give a picture. Why not amber tube from TTL monitor? Very nice and sharp. Find one at trifty shops like goodwill. Can be usually had for 5 or 10 dollars easy. Wizard > -tony From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 8 17:22:24 1999 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Hyperion [WAS: Re: Looking for ] Message-ID: <19991208232224.25434.qmail@hotmail.com> >David, > >I have tangible proof that at least part of your history is wrong. I >have >a Comterm Hyperion, model number 3032, serial number 3008, date >code Aug. >83, sitting in front of me right now. It is _the same >machine_ as the >Dynalogic Hyperion. Looks just like this, except >different drive doors: > >http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/HYPN.HTM >Proof? The name "Comterm" on my serial number plate is actually a >metallic >sticker; underneath it says "Dynalogic Info-Tech >Corporation, Ottawa, >Canada". So the timeline must go: > >Dynalogic >Comterm >Bytec (?? never heard of them ??) > >I have _never_ heard of Commodore producing this machine - Cameron > >Kaiser's extensive "Secret Weapon's of Commodore" site - > >http://calvin.ptloma.edu/~spectre/ckb/secret/ - doesn't mention it > >either. I think your source got Comterm and Commodore mixed up. > >Regards, > >Mark Gregory Well of course you wouldn't see the Commodore Hyperion listed in the SWoC! the SWoC page deals only with 8-bits (the C= 900 being the only exeption) & intentionally excludes any C= PC clones (Which the C= Hyperion *might* be). Anyway, I saw that computer listed the Canonical List of Commodore Products, so it must exist. Besides, all I know is that it *looks* like the Dynalogic Hyperion, I was only theorizing that it *could be* the same thing. As soon as I find a site/picture of it, then I can figure out if it truly is a Dynalogic Hyperion with a Commodore nameplate on it. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 8 17:12:17 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 for Scrap In-Reply-To: <19991208220740.22722.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> (message from Ethan Dicks on Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:07:40 -0800 (PST)) References: <19991208220740.22722.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <19991208231217.10915.qmail@brouhaha.com> Ethan Dicks wrote about PDP-11/70s: > I had to jump on a pair of them that were being shooed out the door here > in Columbus, but, to my disappointment, do not have a proper frontpanel > (no switches and blinkenlights, just a start button). If it's possible to > retrofit a full console into a remote-diagnostic console machine, I'd love > to find a console out there (preferably from a machine that is being parted > out anyway - I wouldn't want to *cause* a machine to be disassembled). The seven machines I purchased have real front panels... but... They aren't the original front panels the machines were born with. Originally six of the machines were standard 11/70s, and one was a DECdatasystem-570, which is the same thing (*) in a double-wide "corporate" cabinet (like the 11/60) with a blue front panel rather than the standard red & orange. The machines were upgraded with Setasi PEP-70 and Hypercache-70, which replace the DEC cache and memory. This speeds up the machine a fair bit, and the memory fits in the CPU cardcage rather than taking up another rack or two. Then the machines were "upgraded" to the remote diagnostic consoles. The front panels were either turned in to DEC as part of the "upgrade", or scrapped. Later, the machines were upgraded to the QED-95 CPU, which replaces all of the CPU cards (and memory) with a four-card set. However, they discovered that the QED-95 will not work with the remote diagnostic console. Reportedly they had to scour the country to find seven front panels to reinstall. Most of the panels they found are the blue DECdatasystem-570 panels. Cheers, Eric (*) I think the DECdatasystem-570 may have used the KB11-CM CPU instead of the more common KB11-C. However, I have not been able to confirm that. Anyhow, none of the ones I received have KB11-CM boards. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 8 16:59:35 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: Teleco Question... More on my devious plan.... In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991208153020.00923c50@207.207.0.212> from "Arfon Gryffydd" at Dec 8, 99 03:30:20 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1312 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991208/bfa7fc76/attachment.ksh From dylanb at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 8 16:50:36 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: I am buying someone a Sun SPARC?. What do I buy? Message-ID: <04a101bf41ce$a44ad7e0$a822d1d8@default> I have 0 experience with Sun. I have a friend who really likes Sun but has a Sun SPARC IPX?. What model does anyone here recommend I buy for just under $2K US. I see the Sun IPXs are selling cheap on eBay so are they a low end machine? [thats what he has right now]. I am buying this for an XMAS present - probably on eBay. I see right now: Sun SPARC 10,7,5, Ultra 1, and others. Any recommendations? john http://www.pdp8.com/ From chris at mainecoon.com Wed Dec 8 18:06:52 1999 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: I am buying someone a Sun SPARC?. What do I buy? References: <04a101bf41ce$a44ad7e0$a822d1d8@default> Message-ID: <384EF29C.68E98D15@mainecoon.com> John B wrote: > > I have 0 experience with Sun. [snip] > I see right now: > > Sun SPARC 10,7,5, Ultra 1, and others. > > Any recommendations? If you can find an Ultra something (other than an Ultra 5 -- it's cheapness incarnate) for less that $2K it's a good bet; at least it can run 64 bit code under 2.7 (nee "Solaris 7") and later. Failing that a 150Mhz Ross HyperSparc equipped machine can at least get out of its way; I use a dual 150 as my daily beater. Best, Chris -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From af-list at is1.wfi-inc.com Wed Dec 8 18:28:53 1999 From: af-list at is1.wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: I am buying someone a Sun SPARC?. What do I buy? In-Reply-To: <04a101bf41ce$a44ad7e0$a822d1d8@default> Message-ID: Do a net search for the "Sun Hardware FAQ" first. It has all the specifications for the machines, and info on what processor module configurations work, etc. Aaron On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, John B wrote: > I have 0 experience with Sun. I have a friend who really likes Sun but has a > Sun SPARC IPX?. What model does anyone here recommend I buy for just under > $2K US. I see the Sun IPXs are selling cheap on eBay so are they a low end > machine? [thats what he has right now]. > > > I am buying this for an XMAS present - probably on eBay. > > > I see right now: > > Sun SPARC 10,7,5, Ultra 1, and others. > > Any recommendations? > > john > http://www.pdp8.com/ > > > > From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Dec 8 18:31:45 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 for Scrap In-Reply-To: <19991208231217.10915.qmail@brouhaha.com> from Eric Smith at "Dec 8, 1999 11:12:17 pm" Message-ID: <199912090031.TAA18994@pechter.dyndns.org> > (*) I think the DECdatasystem-570 may have used the KB11-CM CPU instead > of the more common KB11-C. However, I have not been able to confirm that. > Anyhow, none of the ones I received have KB11-CM boards. > > The KB11-CM were the machines used in the 11/74. They were never sold or released outside of DEC except for some field trials (I was told). I had one at DEC Princeton (it replaced an 11/70 running RSTS/E). The DECdatasystem 570's were the last 11/70's DEC was making in the 1982-3 timeframe. AT&T used up DEC's entire supply of new and refurb 11/70's at the end of life (FCC would've required major work for RF emissions rules). DEC was offering customers 11/780's with good prices if they could shake loose a couple of 11/70's. DEC Princeton was given the not for sale 11/74 cpu in swap. My big problem is we had no spares and when the 11/74 acted up we were in deep #$%^& since we suspected the backplane. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Dec 8 18:37:14 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: DEC Front Panel In-Reply-To: <19991208220740.22722.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Dec 8, 1999 2: 7:40 pm" Message-ID: <199912090037.TAA19042@pechter.dyndns.org> > > [sporadically] looking for an 11/70 for ages. > > I had to jump on a pair of them that were being shooed out the door here > in Columbus, but, to my disappointment, do not have a proper frontpanel > (no switches and blinkenlights, just a start button). If it's possible to > retrofit a full console into a remote-diagnostic console machine, I'd love > to find a console out there (preferably from a machine that is being parted > out anyway - I wouldn't want to *cause* a machine to be disassembled). > > -ethan > > Actually, the remote diagnostic panel in the right hands is such a slick piece of troubleshooting equipment (it can SEE hung bus lines and everything) I'd love to have one in my 11/70. Unfortunately, there's no way to run both the blinkin' lights with the remote panel. I could live with the soft switch register. There's nothing like the different light patterns of RT11, RSX11, and RSTS. Wonder if someone could make progressive gifs of 11/70 light patterns one day. Love to see a browser interfaced java 11/70 emulator running to a remote location with full software emulated graphics front panel. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Dec 8 18:36:57 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: I am buying someone a Sun SPARC?. What do I buy? In-Reply-To: <04a101bf41ce$a44ad7e0$a822d1d8@default> References: <04a101bf41ce$a44ad7e0$a822d1d8@default> Message-ID: <19991208183657.D22177@mrbill.net> On Wed, Dec 08, 1999 at 05:50:36PM -0500, John B wrote: > I am buying this for an XMAS present - probably on eBay. > I see right now: > Sun SPARC 10,7,5, Ultra 1, and others. > Any recommendations? > john > http://www.pdp8.com/ You can get a brand-new Ultra 5 system now from Sun for $1995. I have one, and its great. You might also want to check out my web site , http://www.sunhelp.org. I've got FAQs, informational files, news, and links to vendors that sell used Sun equipment. I wouldnt recommend EBay as a source. Feel free to mail privately if you have ANY questions. bill -- Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using Windows NT for mission-critical applications." -- What Yoda *meant* to say From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 8 18:04:56 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 for Scrap Message-ID: <19991209000456.14458.qmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> --- Eric Smith wrote: > Ethan Dicks wrote about PDP-11/70s: > > I had to jump on a pair of them that... do not have a proper frontpanel > > The seven machines I purchased have real front panels... but... > > They aren't the original front panels the machines were born with. > > Later, the machines were upgraded to the QED-95 CPU, which replaces all > of the CPU cards (and memory) with a four-card set... Wow. Quite a history. Mine were from Borden in downtown Columbus. The guy that helped me get them, used to use them in the late 1970s. His company (and my one-time employer) was the place I've mentioned several times that made DEC<->IBM sync serial connectivity products. For anyone that ever would have worked with them, they were known as COLA and COLE (COLumbus CPU "A" and COLumbus CPU "E"), part of a once larger setup. They are identically configured with the remote-diag console, 4Kw of MOS in one BA-11 in an attached memory cabinet (H-960), SI9900, several Fuji Eagles and a couple of TU-77-sized tape drives. *Those* were a bitch to move. Fortunately for me, it was all in town - $100 in moving expenses. Maybe I'll be able to get one back together and powered up by Spring. I'm still fiddling with my set of PDP-8/Ls that all appear to have dirty backplanes. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From tom at cotc-consulting.com Wed Dec 8 18:39:34 1999 From: tom at cotc-consulting.com (Tom Renz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:11 2005 Subject: old manuals and/or documentation Message-ID: <199912090042.RAA23505@chevalier.rmi.net> I'm looking for some "old" reference materials. The materials include either manuals, articles, training materials, college thesis, white papers, school tests, list servers or other information that is considered in the "Public Domain". This material could be purchased, referenced, reviewed, etc. by anyone. Internal company I'm doing some research for the recent Y2K patent regarding date windowing. The materials need to have a copyright date before October 1995. If anyone would have access to any of this material and willing to share via sending the book, making some copies, ISBN numbers, etc. I would be interested in conversing with you. Specifically the materials should show an example of the date window technique (any cutoff date will do), the use in a comparison and possibly the use in a sort. The word on the street is that the reference could be found in the Clipper manuals or I've seen some indication on a web page for Quicken for Macintosh (version 1, 2, or 3). The indication discussed the method Quicken uses but did not reference any manual. I was hoping someone had the manual and could locate the reference to it within the written pages. Your help will be greatly appreciated and I look forward to hearing from you soon. Please respond back if you have information to share. Tom Renz From mjbarton at erols.com Wed Dec 8 17:58:12 1999 From: mjbarton at erols.com (Mike Barton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <001501bf41d8$16c035a0$02000003@mikebart> I recieved a Lexitron Word Processor at ... a yard sale. No diskettes to get the thing to run. Can you help in any way so I can either trash it or use it?? Thanks in advance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991208/f6c83932/attachment.html From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 8 19:17:32 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: I am buying someone a Sun SPARC?. What do I buy? In-Reply-To: <04a101bf41ce$a44ad7e0$a822d1d8@default> from "John B" at Dec 08, 1999 05:50:36 PM Message-ID: <199912090117.RAA01575@shell1.aracnet.com> > I have 0 experience with Sun. I have a friend who really likes Sun but has a > Sun SPARC IPX?. What model does anyone here recommend I buy for just under > $2K US. I see the Sun IPXs are selling cheap on eBay so are they a low end > machine? [thats what he has right now]. > > > I am buying this for an XMAS present - probably on eBay. > > > I see right now: > > Sun SPARC 10,7,5, Ultra 1, and others. > > Any recommendations? > > john I'd recommend one of the following: used Sparc 20 w/Dual SM71 CPU's, 128MB+ RAM, 2GB+ Hard Drive Reasons for: Coolness factor, can get this config w/21" monitor for about $1500 Reasons Against: Slow by todays standards, cost of 100Mbit Ethernet and 24-Bit graphics used Ultra 1 w/128MB+ RAM, 24-bit colour Reasons for: ? Reasons Against: Cost of 100Mbit Graphics, slow by todays standards new Ultra 5 for $1995 Reasons for: Killer price for a nicely outfited box Reasons against: only 64MB RAM (this is easy to fix), PCI, EIDE HD I'm personally looking at all of the above, and will probably go with a Sparc 20 in that config when the price drops low enough. Emotionally I think the Sparc 20 is very cool, logically I think it's overpriced, for it's speed and age. Personally the Ultra 1's don't interest me, I'd rather go with a Ultra 5 despite it's short comings if I was to get an Ultra. The system I'd *REALLY* like isn't listed above, is a nice Dual Processor Ultra 2 with plenty of RAM and HD space, but those run $10k+! Because of the above reasonings my main Solaris box is a Dual Processor 400Mhz Celeron w/256MB RAM, 6GB Hard Drive, 24-Bit colour, 100Mbit ethernet, 32x CD-ROM, 16bit soundcard. Such a beast will blow any of the above away and cost under $1000. Not as cool as a Sun box, but it makes a lot more sense from a monitary standpoint. Oddly enough when it's running Solaris it's also the box Netscape runs the fastest on... Zane From dylanb at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 8 18:31:28 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: PDP-8L (was PDP-11/70) Message-ID: <000d01bf41dc$bb93cf20$c13e65cc@default> -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 7:41 PM Subject: Re: PDP-11/70 for Scrap > > >--- Eric Smith wrote: >> Ethan Dicks wrote about PDP-11/70s: >> > I had to jump on a pair of them that... do not have a proper frontpanel >> >> The seven machines I purchased have real front panels... but... >> >> They aren't the original front panels the machines were born with. >> >> Later, the machines were upgraded to the QED-95 CPU, which replaces all >> of the CPU cards (and memory) with a four-card set... > >Wow. Quite a history. Mine were from Borden in downtown Columbus. The >guy that helped me get them, used to use them in the late 1970s. His company >(and my one-time employer) was the place I've mentioned several times that >made DEC<->IBM sync serial connectivity products. For anyone that ever would >have worked with them, they were known as COLA and COLE (COLumbus CPU "A" and >COLumbus CPU "E"), part of a once larger setup. They are identically >configured with the remote-diag console, 4Kw of MOS in one BA-11 in an >attached memory cabinet (H-960), SI9900, several Fuji Eagles and a couple of >TU-77-sized tape drives. *Those* were a bitch to move. Fortunately for me, >it was all in town - $100 in moving expenses. Maybe I'll be able to get one >back together and powered up by Spring. I'm still fiddling with my set of >PDP-8/Ls that all appear to have dirty backplanes. Do you have docs for the PDP-8Ls? I have a running desktop PDP-8L coming in next weekend and am not sure if I am getting the docs or not. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com > >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd@iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > From elvey at hal.com Wed Dec 8 19:43:52 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: I am buying someone a Sun SPARC?. What do I buy? In-Reply-To: <199912090117.RAA01575@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <199912090143.RAA29713@civic.hal.com> healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > used Sparc 20 w/Dual SM71 CPU's, 128MB+ RAM, 2GB+ Hard Drive > Reasons for: Coolness factor, can get this config w/21" monitor for > about $1500 > Reasons Against: Slow by todays standards, cost of 100Mbit Ethernet > and 24-Bit graphics > used Ultra 1 w/128MB+ RAM, 24-bit colour > Reasons for: ? > Reasons Against: Cost of 100Mbit Graphics, slow by todays standards > new Ultra 5 for $1995 > Reasons for: Killer price for a nicely outfited box > Reasons against: only 64MB RAM (this is easy to fix), PCI, EIDE HD > Hi I have to put in a plug for my company. Sun isn't the only Sparc out there. Check ours out at: http://www.hal.com/ We design processors for Fujitsu's high end Sparcs and servers. Sorry about the blatant Add. but he did ask about what to buy. Dwight From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Dec 8 20:10:28 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: I am buying someone a Sun SPARC?. What do I buy? In-Reply-To: <199912090117.RAA01575@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <04a101bf41ce$a44ad7e0$a822d1d8@default> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991208211028.00926d40@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that healyzh@aracnet.com may have mentioned these words: >Because of the above reasonings my main Solaris box is a Dual Processor >400Mhz Celeron w/256MB RAM, 6GB Hard Drive, 24-Bit colour, 100Mbit ethernet, >32x CD-ROM, 16bit soundcard. Such a beast will blow any of the above away >and cost under $1000. Not as cool as a Sun box, but it makes a lot >more sense from a monitary standpoint. Oddly enough when it's running >Solaris it's also the box Netscape runs the fastest on... > > Zane I've not had a chance to install Solaris "7" on my box yet, but I'd wager that Linux/Netscape on my box is just as fast... 'course, the UW SCSI / Dual P2-350's might have something to do with it... ;-) BTW, if you can buy that system for under 1K, do it! Altho RAM has come down, it's still not nearly as low as it was 6 mo. ago, and 256M still costs a pretty chunk of change these days. To bring this (kinda) back on topic, is there a freeware CoCo emulator for Linux out there? (Actually, even a 6809-only emulator would be cool...) Thanks, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 8 20:26:20 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: I am buying someone a Sun SPARC?. What do I buy? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991208211028.00926d40@127.0.0.1> from "Roger Merchberger" at Dec 08, 1999 09:10:28 PM Message-ID: <199912090226.SAA02927@shell1.aracnet.com> > > Rumor has it that healyzh@aracnet.com may have mentioned these words: > > >Because of the above reasonings my main Solaris box is a Dual Processor > >400Mhz Celeron w/256MB RAM, 6GB Hard Drive, 24-Bit colour, 100Mbit ethernet, > >32x CD-ROM, 16bit soundcard. Such a beast will blow any of the above away > >and cost under $1000. Not as cool as a Sun box, but it makes a lot > >more sense from a monitary standpoint. Oddly enough when it's running > >Solaris it's also the box Netscape runs the fastest on... > > > > Zane > > I've not had a chance to install Solaris "7" on my box yet, but I'd wager > that Linux/Netscape on my box is just as fast... 'course, the UW SCSI / > Dual P2-350's might have something to do with it... ;-) Well, if I could use the UDMA/66 drive as a UDMA/66 it would beat that no problem. Unfortunatly I don't believe that Solaris, BeOS, OPENSTEP, and maybe even Linux support UDMA/66's. It's my Multi-OS box so compatibility is more important than speed, and it's got plenty of speed for me. > BTW, if you can buy that system for under 1K, do it! Altho RAM has come > down, it's still not nearly as low as it was 6 mo. ago, and 256M still > costs a pretty chunk of change these days. Oops! Good point, with RAM prices you might not be able to do it for 1K at the moment. I built it in July, and got the two 128MB sticks for $92 apiece. The system didn't/doesn't need that much memory, but I couldn't resist it at that price :^) > To bring this (kinda) back on topic, is there a freeware CoCo emulator for > Linux out there? (Actually, even a 6809-only emulator would be cool...) http://www.multimania.com/jth/6809.html Also, believe it or not, look at Xmame, it apparently can emulate the CoCo now?!?! Zane From af-list at is1.wfi-inc.com Wed Dec 8 20:36:28 1999 From: af-list at is1.wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: I am buying someone a Sun SPARC?. What do I buy? In-Reply-To: <199912090226.SAA02927@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: > > Well, if I could use the UDMA/66 drive as a UDMA/66 it would beat that no > problem. Unfortunatly I don't believe that Solaris, BeOS, OPENSTEP, and > maybe even Linux support UDMA/66's. It's my Multi-OS box so compatibility > is more important than speed, and it's got plenty of speed for me. A little (totally) off-topic, but Linux does support the UDMA/66 found on boards like the Abit BP-6, etc. I have a dual Celery 466 system with an IBM UDMA/66 drive and it is *fast*. Aaron From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Dec 8 20:36:52 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: CoCoLinux (was: I am buying someone a Sun SPARC?. What do I buy? In-Reply-To: <199912090226.SAA02927@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19991208211028.00926d40@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991208213652.00a08440@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that healyzh@aracnet.com may have mentioned these words: >> I've not had a chance to install Solaris "7" on my box yet, but I'd wager >> that Linux/Netscape on my box is just as fast... 'course, the UW SCSI / >> Dual P2-350's might have something to do with it... ;-) > >Well, if I could use the UDMA/66 drive as a UDMA/66 it would beat that no >problem. Unfortunatly I don't believe that Solaris, BeOS, OPENSTEP, and >maybe even Linux support UDMA/66's. It's my Multi-OS box so compatibility >is more important than speed, and it's got plenty of speed for me. Who ran the benchmarks? Most UDMA/66 drives I've seen are still 5400RPM and can't hold a candle to the 7200/10000RPM SCSI3W drives for access times & buffer sizes (or you'll pay *more* for the UDMA drives to get the same thruput...) Also, even WinNT doesn't *seem* to support UDMA (tried to install one... it puked.) so that means that the standard isn't supported by an operating system. ;-) Also remember, UDMA still requires a lot more CPU than any SCSI controller worth 1/2 it's salt. >The system didn't/doesn't need that much memory, but I couldn't >resist it at that price :^) Neither does mine, but the "ooh's" & "aah's" are pretty neat... ;-) > >> To bring this (kinda) back on topic, is there a freeware CoCo emulator for >> Linux out there? (Actually, even a 6809-only emulator would be cool...) > >http://www.multimania.com/jth/6809.html > >Also, believe it or not, look at Xmame, it apparently can emulate the CoCo >now?!?! > > Zane > > -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From zmerch at 30below.com Wed Dec 8 20:40:03 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: CoCoLinux2 (should be: Dammit, Eudora!!!) Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991208214003.00927100@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that healyzh@aracnet.com may have mentioned these words: [snip on the stuff you already read... How do I change (or at least disable) Eudora's "send msg. now" sequence??? :-/ It raises hades with my Linux/Unix fingers...] >> To bring this (kinda) back on topic, is there a freeware CoCo emulator for >> Linux out there? (Actually, even a 6809-only emulator would be cool...) > >http://www.multimania.com/jth/6809.html > >Also, believe it or not, look at Xmame, it apparently can emulate the CoCo >now?!?! Thanks for the references... I'll have to check them out. I really love Jeff Vavasour's CoCo3 emulator for DOS, but multithreaded just sounds too darned cool... ;-) See ya (again... ;-) Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Dec 8 20:42:52 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Looking for... Commodore Hyperion Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991208204252.00f39110@pc> Someone responded privately that they found no hits on Deja News. Here's what I do in a typical search... I entered "Commodore Hyperion" (no quotes) in the "quick search" area at the upper right of their start page. It returned no results. That's OK. Down below, there's a copy of your query. Change "Search [recent] messages" to [past], then click "Search" next to it. (Selecting [all] would work, too.) Presto, a bunch of hits. Some are from Dr. Peter Kittel. He worked at Commodore Germany, it looks like he knows a bit about it. He'd probably respond to an e-mail if you sent him one. - John From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 8 21:11:47 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: CoCoLinux (was: I am buying someone a Sun SPARC?. What do I In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991208213652.00a08440@127.0.0.1> from "Roger Merchberger" at Dec 08, 1999 09:36:52 PM Message-ID: <199912090311.TAA04007@shell1.aracnet.com> > >Well, if I could use the UDMA/66 drive as a UDMA/66 it would beat that no > >problem. Unfortunatly I don't believe that Solaris, BeOS, OPENSTEP, and > >maybe even Linux support UDMA/66's. It's my Multi-OS box so compatibility > >is more important than speed, and it's got plenty of speed for me. > > Who ran the benchmarks? Most UDMA/66 drives I've seen are still 5400RPM and > can't hold a candle to the 7200/10000RPM SCSI3W drives for access times & > buffer sizes (or you'll pay *more* for the UDMA drives to get the same > thruput...) Also, even WinNT doesn't *seem* to support UDMA (tried to > install one... it puked.) so that means that the standard isn't supported > by an operating system. ;-) > > Also remember, UDMA still requires a lot more CPU than any SCSI controller > worth 1/2 it's salt. Take a look at the following website that specializes in drive reviews: http://www.storagereview.com/ Based on the info I found there about three months ago it looks as if the UMDA/66's are about the same as a U2W drive. To get the real advantage you have to go with RAID and disk stripping. Also, unless I'm misreading things UDMA/66 puts about the same load on the processor as SCSI. Yes, SCSI is still superior, BUT the difference is so slight that you have to ask if the added cost is worth it. I looked into this quite a bit when I was deciding how I wanted to do the drives on my PowerMac G4/450. It's running with UDMA/66. Gack! I was just looking at that site, it looks like Maxtor now has a 41GB UDMA/66 drive with a suggested price of $350! WOW! So what if it's slow, I'm looking for a couple BIG, cheap drives for a backup server I want to build one of these days. Good luck on finding CoCo emulation, I've not tried either thing I pointed you at. Personally I prefer the Mac version of MAME to the X-Windows version. The last time I tried the X-Windows version it seemed seriously slower on a machine that was about twice the speed of the Mac I had at the time. Zane From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 8 20:59:12 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: DEC Front Panel Message-ID: <19991209025912.12823.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > ...I'd love to have one in my 11/70. Trade? ;-) > Unfortunately, there's no way to run both the blinkin' lights > with the remote panel. Yes, well... I'd be happy with one each. > Love to see a browser interfaced java 11/70 emulator running to a remote > location with full software emulated graphics front panel. Is there enough information out there to make a virtual console for an 11/70 via the remote panel? I have no idea what the protocol (or serial line speed would be). Does the remote panel have an ODT-like mode? -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From pechter at pechter.dyndns.org Wed Dec 8 21:33:04 1999 From: pechter at pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: DEC Front Panel In-Reply-To: <19991209025912.12823.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> from Ethan Dicks at "Dec 8, 1999 6:59:12 pm" Message-ID: <199912090333.WAA00574@pechter.dyndns.org> > > > --- Bill Pechter wrote: > > ...I'd love to have one in my 11/70. Wish I had an 11/70 or the room to keep it. > > > Unfortunately, there's no way to run both the blinkin' lights > > with the remote panel. > > Yes, well... I'd be happy with one each. > > > Love to see a browser interfaced java 11/70 emulator running to a remote > > location with full software emulated graphics front panel. > > Is there enough information out there to make a virtual console for an 11/70 > via the remote panel? I have no idea what the protocol (or serial line speed > would be). Does the remote panel have an ODT-like mode? > > -ethan I think DEC never made the remote protocol available or public. Probably it could be done with someone with an 11/70, an RDC and a line analyzer to trap the connections. I think there were some bits flipped in the ascii which was used to start the session and some kind of kermit/xmodem like protocol... The remote panel has a really slick ODT mode. If I can find my 11/70 pocket RDC guide I'll photocopy it. U= or U/ (if I remember) showed Unibus line status. Bill --- bpechter@shell.monmouth.com|pechter@pechter.dyndns.org Three things never anger: First, the one who runs your DEC, The one who does Field Service and the one who signs your check. From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Dec 8 21:23:23 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Old usenet news? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991208212323.00ffd160@pc> I thought this topic had been chewed once or twice on this Classic Computer Collectors mailing list, but I couldn't find it in my archive. I often lament that there may never be an archive of news in the middle era between the start of Usenet news and the birth of the Web. Deja News only goes back to about March 1995. The archive appears to be down right now, but it has a simple archive of a few years' worth of early Usenet news. I think there's a gap of at least ten years between its archive and Deja News. Henry Spencer supposedly archived everything into the early 90s, but did he save the tapes and shift them to new media in time? has an archive from May 1981 to May 1982, apparently based on his files. I found a news story on archive.org at . Hmm. I had to blink twice, the picture of the guy running it looks enough like me to confuse myself. Fortunately, he didn't look like me in other pictures. He's a net god of sorts. He founded Thinking Machines, and later sold other companies to AOL and Amazon. archive.org is trying to archive all Web sites. is another project he funded - near and dear to my heart, because I'm typing this on a VNC window on a 4.5 mile wireless link. According to , Deja has 300 million messages, accounting for more than 500 gigabytes of disk space. They say Usenet posts are increasing geometrically. At least with old news, you can know there's only a finite amount. I seem to remember that in 1983 or so, all of Usenet news was only pumping a meg or two a day. Can anyone confirm this, or supply any other data points along this curve? How many megs of Usenet posts might there be in this gap between, say, 1983 and 1995? What are the chances that someone, somewhere, has an archive of everything from these years? I guess we only need to find one. :-) - John From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 8 21:52:14 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: CoCoLinux (was: I am buying someone a Sun SPARC?. What do I Message-ID: <199912090352.WAA15416@world.std.com> , Deja has <300 million messages, accounting for more than 500 gigabytes Back to that warehouse today with all the HP stuff in it. Found this monster 21inch monitor that looks to be an RGB Type.. The Monitor has 5 BNC connectors on the back Labeled .. 1. HD (Sync) 2. VD (Sync) 3. R 4. G 5. B Hope to hook this up to my Commodore 128D Computer.. Before I get to excited can someone tell me if this model is standard RGB ? Or is this some non standard type ? Phil.. From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 8 22:16:32 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) In-Reply-To: <006a01bf41ff$ebd78820$0f348ad1@home> (musicman38@mindspring.com) References: <006a01bf41ff$ebd78820$0f348ad1@home> Message-ID: <19991209041632.12772.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Found this monster 21inch monitor that looks to be an RGB Type.. > > The Monitor has 5 BNC connectors on the back Labeled .. > > 1. HD (Sync) > 2. VD (Sync) > 3. R > 4. G > 5. B > > Hope to hook this up to my Commodore 128D Computer.. I don't have specs for the A2094, but the chances that it can handle the low (NTSC) scan rate of a Commodore 128 are between slim and none. It's probably a fixed-frequency monitor, but even if it's not, they usually won't go below 31 KHz horizontal, and NTSC is about 15.7 KHz. On the other hand, even if it's a fixed-frequency unit, it would probably make a good monitor on a PC running Linux, since you can configure XFree86 for any timing. From musicman38 at mindspring.com Wed Dec 8 23:00:56 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <007301bf4202$62588740$0f348ad1@home> Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) I found a Website with the specs on the HP monitor I found. Could someone take at look at the specs and tell me if this is standard RGB , or is it possibly VGA compatible ? Monitor Specifications: (From the Website) Screen Attributes 19" Aperture grill " viewable image .30 mm dot pitch Input Signal Video Signal : Analog H Frequency : 68.7 V Frequency : 75 Hz Sync Signal : Green, Composite, Separate Input Connector 5 BNC Maximum Resolution Maximum : 1152x870, 75 Hz Macintosh : 1152x870, 75 Hz Flicker free : User Controls Analog controls BR, CT, CV, VE Plug and Play From wrking at tsoft.com Wed Dec 8 18:09:25 1999 From: wrking at tsoft.com (William King) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Available: DEC RK611 Controller Message-ID: <000501bf41d9$a74e04c0$1501a8c0@trantor.frop.org> I have (most of) a RK611 controller that I don't need. This controller consists of: RK611 backplane (similar to a DD11-DK) M7900 RK06/07 Unibus interface M7901 RK06/07 register module M7902 RK06/07 control module M7903 RK06/07 data module Boot ROM for M9012 Bootstrap/Terminator Module *Note* however that the following module is missing: M7904 RK06/07 drive interface module If you're interested, make an offer. I'll probably accept it. Bill From dylanb at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 8 21:52:59 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Available: DEC RK611 Controller Message-ID: <007801bf41f8$e2af5720$c13e65cc@default> Didn't you just try to sell this on EBay? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=211502560 john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: William King To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 11:57 PM Subject: Available: DEC RK611 Controller >I have (most of) a RK611 controller that I don't need. > >This controller consists of: > >RK611 backplane (similar to a DD11-DK) >M7900 RK06/07 Unibus interface >M7901 RK06/07 register module >M7902 RK06/07 control module >M7903 RK06/07 data module >Boot ROM for M9012 Bootstrap/Terminator Module > >*Note* however that the following module is missing: > >M7904 RK06/07 drive interface module > >If you're interested, make an offer. I'll probably accept it. > >Bill > > From jhfine at idirect.com Wed Dec 8 23:09:50 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 for Scrap References: <007701bf40d3$bad71c40$c56465cc@default> <384E690B.7C63A981@idirect.com> <19991208184351.7166.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <384F399E.DFDD355E@idirect.com> >Eric Smith wrote: > Jerome wrote: > > I have a lead on a PDP-11/70 in the western states. Fully equipped > > I hear. I doubt that anyone would want to rescue it - there have been > > too many around. But, just in case. It should be in working condition. > I've arguably got too many already, but if it's in northern California > I suppose I might be interested. Do you have any more information? Jerome Fine replies: I picked one reply at random - I am not responding just to Eric! I believe that I have a bit more detail. It is supposed to be in New Mexico south of Albuquerque (did I spell it correctly?). Does anyone who inquired - there were at least 10 e-mails (both private and on the list) live close enough to want this piece of history? Please contact me again if you are still interested. I am also informed that there are quite a few drives and tapes, but that will need to be confirmed. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 8 23:08:43 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: DEC Front Panel Message-ID: <19991209050843.25704.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bill Pechter wrote: > > I think DEC never made the remote protocol available or public. Not surprising. > Probably it could be done with someone with an 11/70, an RDC and a > line analyzer to trap the connections. Only if you could wedge the line analyzer in between the 11/70 and the remote support device on the other end (i.e., a live session). I do happen to have a couple of HP line analyzers - the ones that use TU58- sized tapes, not the floppy version. I can follow the traffic and, indeed, even synthesize some. We had some home-grown software that would simulate bisync traffic and even an SNA logon sequence. Most sophisticated. > The remote panel has a really slick ODT mode. If I can find my 11/70 > pocket RDC guide I'll photocopy it. That'd be great. No hurry. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 8 23:58:17 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: PDP-8L (was PDP-11/70) Message-ID: <19991209055817.2829.qmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> --- John B wrote: > Do you have docs for the PDP-8Ls? I have a running desktop PDP-8L coming in > next weekend and am not sure if I am getting the docs or not. I have a couple of the relevant handbooks (c. 1970) and a B-sized printset that is marked: DEC-8/L-HR2A-D, PDP-8/L MAINTENANCE MANUAL Volume II, 3rd printing - March 1972 I can't scan 11"x17" documents, but it's only a few dozen pages - processor flow diagrams, logic diagrams, module placement and module schematics. I can get it copied for you either as trade in kind or for the cost of duplicating plus shipping. That's all I've got for the -8/L. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 9 00:43:58 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 for Scrap In-Reply-To: <99120814301805.16493@vault.neurotica.com> References: <384E690B.7C63A981@idirect.com> Message-ID: > Too many around?! > > Argh. I need to move to the west coast. I'm in the DC area, and have been >[sporadically] looking for an 11/70 for ages. You wouldn't like it, must have been 65 degrees outside today. I had to wear one of my "winter" T shirts. OTOH a friend just tipped me to an old DEC service guy who might need who knows what "hauled" away.... From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 9 00:52:26 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: I am buying someone a Sun SPARC?. What do I buy? In-Reply-To: <199912090117.RAA01575@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <04a101bf41ce$a44ad7e0$a822d1d8@default> from "John B" at Dec 08, 1999 05:50:36 PM Message-ID: >used Sparc 20 w/Dual SM71 CPU's, 128MB+ RAM, 2GB+ Hard Drive > Reasons for: Coolness factor, can get this config w/21" monitor for > about $1500 One of my friends sold 4 Sparc 20's at TRW 32 MB/1 GB no monitor, $325 each. Retail with a monitor around here is about $950. The trouble I see with a Sparc is that as the price goes down, your into stoneage performance before it gets cheap. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 9 01:00:38 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: cheap drives (OT) In-Reply-To: <199912090311.TAA04007@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19991208213652.00a08440@127.0.0.1> from "Roger Merchberger" at Dec 08, 1999 09:36:52 PM Message-ID: >Gack! I was just looking at that site, it looks like Maxtor now has a 41GB >UDMA/66 drive with a suggested price of $350! WOW! So what if it's slow, >I'm looking for a couple BIG, cheap drives for a backup server I want to >build one of these days. This from the deal-mac web site. Computers4SURE.com offers the Maxtor DiamondMax 40.9GB EIDE UltraDMA/66 5400 rpm internal hard drive, model no. K0194000U, for $257.99 plus $8.10 shipping. That's about $12 less than NECX's SpotShop price mentioned yesterday and the lowest we've seen so far ... $6.30 per GB. (7:05a) From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Dec 9 02:07:45 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Old usenet news? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991208212323.00ffd160@pc> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991209000241.00bab7b0@mcmanis.com> At 09:23 PM 12/8/99 -0600, John wrote: >At least with old news, you can know there's only a finite amount. >I seem to remember that in 1983 or so, all of Usenet news was only >pumping a meg or two a day. Can anyone confirm this, or supply >any other data points along this curve? How many megs of Usenet >posts might there be in this gap between, say, 1983 and 1995? In 1984 I could read every message posted in every news group before lunch every day. This was a time when commercial use was still strictly verboten if you went through any DARPA links and the Usenet "cabal" was that mysterious underbody that could create new groups and remove systems from the Usenet. I helped maintain intelca which made my address ...!ucbvax!sun!intelca!cmcmanis. I remember around 1992 when the number of new messages posted in one day exceeded 10MB. I had long since stopped being able to read everything. Then there was John Gilmore's revolt against the Cabal and alt.* was born (late 80's IIRC) --Chuck From enrico.badella at softstar.it Thu Dec 9 02:34:36 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 for Scrap References: <007701bf40d3$bad71c40$c56465cc@default> <384E690B.7C63A981@idirect.com> <19991208184351.7166.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <384F699C.9A13374E@softstar.it> Eric Smith wrote: > > Jerome wrote: > > I have a lead on a PDP-11/70 in the western states. Fully equipped > > I hear. I doubt that anyone would want to rescue it - there have been > > too many around. But, just in case. It should be in working condition. > > I've arguably got too many already, but if it's in northern California > I suppose I might be interested. Do you have any more information? Lucky you ! Greedy fellow ! 8-) e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From truthanl at oclc.org Thu Dec 9 04:34:41 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Test Message - delete it now Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE46@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> testing inbox sort criteria - please disregard From truthanl at oclc.org Thu Dec 9 04:40:56 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: FW: Test Message #2 - delete it now Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE47@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> > testing inbox sort criteria - please disregard > From truthanl at oclc.org Thu Dec 9 06:48:20 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Test # 3 -Delete now Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE4A@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> inbox sort test from listserve - Please disregard From truthanl at oclc.org Thu Dec 9 07:00:09 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: FW: Test # 4 -Delete now Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE4B@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: Truthan,Larry > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 1999 7:48 AM > To: 'ClassicCMP@u.washington.edu' > Subject: Test # 3 -Delete now > > inbox sort test from listserve - Please disregard From scott at saskatoon.com Thu Dec 9 08:21:31 1999 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: UDMA vs. SCSI (was: Re: CoCoLinux (was: I am buying someone a Sun SPARC?. What do I In-Reply-To: <199912090352.WAA15416@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, Allison J Parent wrote: > Yes this is all bogus. As a single drive UDMA faster but two scsi drives > are still faster as with UDMA (Still IDE) you can only talk to one spindle > at a time. SCSI you can have seven on like and with some of the fancier Actually the ATA spec supports overlap (Same as SCSI disconnect/reconnect) and tagged command queueing. At least the IBM GXP, GP and Fujitsu MPE drives support these commands. AFAIK, Linux doesn't support these commands yet. ttyl srw From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Dec 9 11:08:42 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) In-Reply-To: <007301bf4202$62588740$0f348ad1@home> from Phil Clayton at "Dec 9, 1999 00:00:56 am" Message-ID: <199912091708.LAA12114@thufir.cs.umn.edu> > > I found a Website with the specs on the HP monitor I found. > Could someone take at look at the specs and tell me if this is standard RGB > , > or is it possibly VGA compatible ? It appears that this monitor is VGA compatible, if you get the correct video cable. You need a cable with HD15 onone end, and 5 BNC connectors on the other end. > > Monitor Specifications: (From the Website) > > Input Signal > V Frequency : 75 Hz > Sync Signal : Separate VGA needs separate sync, ie, it needs to use all 5 of the BNC connectors onteh back of the monitor. > Input Connector > 5 BNC > > Maximum Resolution > Maximum : 1152x870, 75 Hz > -Lawrence LeMay From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 9 10:17:21 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Message-ID: <000301bf4277$10aedd20$0400c0a8@winbook> There was a lot of local interest in these machines back in about '78. California Digital, a sometime surplus vendor, ran ads in the mags of the time, e.g. BYTE and Kilobaud, for the digital cassette drives that went on these WP machines. Out here, in the hinterland, we thought those would be a potential improvement over the audio cassettes many of us were using to store data, hence we jumped on 'em. Wayne Wall wrote a simple loader/saver to run with them and, ultimately, Peter Boyle, author of the XPL0 language for the 6502,et al, wrote a floppy file system which Wayne Wall adapted for these tape drives. This later reappeared as the "APEX" os for various 6502-based machines. Unfortunately, Chuck Robertson and I were the only ones who went so far as to package a pair of the drives together for use on the same system. Chuck modified the "TFS" tape file system for use with a pair of drives, but the only copy of that was damaged beyond repair during a fixit session between Wayne, Chuck, and me, (I wasn't even smart enough to be dangerous where this TFS stuff was concerned) and the TFS then slid into oblivion. Floppies, in the meantime went down in price, and someone gave Wayne Wall an Apple-][ . . . so you can imagine what happened to the tape drive effort. It only held about 250 kB, on a 60-minute audio cassette, and it took about two minutes to run the tape from one end to the other when searching for a record. Nobody had yet thought to put the directory in the middle of the tape. Once one had used a floppy there was no chance he'd want to use these for a file-oriented OS. Oh, well. I still have the box with the pair of drives in it, by the way. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Mike Barton To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 6:42 PM I recieved a Lexitron Word Processor at ... a yard sale. No diskettes to get the thing to run. Can you help in any way so I can either trash it or use it?? Thanks in advance -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991209/665b83fa/attachment.html From mrdos at swbell.net Thu Dec 9 13:45:13 1999 From: mrdos at swbell.net (Owen Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: BYTE Computer Message-ID: <000f01bf427d$fadb8960$bb2aa497@compaq> Does anyone know about a computer called a Byte with the following specs? RAM - 48 Kb ROM - 16 Kb External memory - Tape recorder or 5" FDD Type of processor - Z80A (UA880) Format of displaying information, graphic mode - 256 points ? 192 points Software, keeping in ROM - program-interpreter of language "Basik" Amount of sound synthesizer channels - 4 Amount simultaneously displayed colors, not less - 15 Weight, not more - 4,5 kg Presence of alphabets - Russian, Latin, Russian - Latin Time of entering-conclusion of block logical information with size of 1 Kbyte, seconds - 5 Any help would be appreciated! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991209/605e42f7/attachment.html From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Dec 9 14:53:00 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Message-ID: <991209155300.21e0064a@trailing-edge.com> >There was a lot of local interest in these machines back in about '78. = >California Digital, a sometime surplus vendor Still a reliable surplus vendor, incidentally: http://www.cadigital.com/ Perhaps the best-known NOS selection of 8" floppy drives anywhere in the world, as well as 8" media and cleaning kits. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 9 15:18:20 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) In-Reply-To: <007301bf4202$62588740$0f348ad1@home> from "Phil Clayton" at Dec 9, 99 00:00:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 875 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991209/7aa6f9ae/attachment.ksh From dylanb at sympatico.ca Thu Dec 9 14:59:09 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <001b01bf4288$3cd5e720$a626d1d8@default> -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 4:58 PM Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) >> >> Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) >> >> >> >> >> I found a Website with the specs on the HP monitor I found. >> Could someone take at look at the specs and tell me if this is standard RGB >> , >> or is it possibly VGA compatible ? > >What do you mean by 'standard' RGB? I can give you a dozen different and >incompatible RGB standards. > >Yes, this monitor has analogue RGB inputs with separate syncs. But the >scan rates are neither US TV rates (which is what the C128 produces) or >VGA. I believe some SVGA cards could drive this given suitable software >(Xfree86 could probably do it if you run linux). > >> >> Monitor Specifications: (From the Website) > >[...] > >> H Frequency : 68.7 > >US TV is 15.570kHz, VGA is 31.25kHz or thereabouts. No, the US TV (NTSC) Scan Rate is 15.750Khz john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com > >> V Frequency : 75 Hz > >US TV is 60Hz, as is VGA (?) > >-tony > > From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Thu Dec 9 16:17:29 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Message-ID: <19991209.161828.236.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> *Snort!* One of the few places I've seen that makes the prices on E-Bay look cheap. Their target market is definitely *not* hobbyists. On Thu, 9 Dec 1999 15:53:00 -0500 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com writes: > >There was a lot of local interest in these machines back in about > '78. = > >California Digital, a sometime surplus vendor > > Still a reliable surplus vendor, incidentally: > > http://www.cadigital.com/ > > Perhaps the best-known NOS selection of 8" floppy drives anywhere in > the > world, as well as 8" media and cleaning kits. > > -- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: > http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From enrico.badella at softstar.it Thu Dec 9 16:40:11 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: reading tapes in bad conditions References: <384E373E.AB2B0CFA@softstar.it> <19991208184247.7151.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <38502FCB.78B96B96@softstar.it> Hi, This afternoon while reading some old tapes I discovered that they had been damaged by the previous owner. In particular one, that could be mounted without problems would just produce tons of errors. I decided to unrole it carefully and discovered that just after the aluminum (?) mark it had been probably crumbled up. Anybody know some trick to bring back at least part of it? I tried skipping blocks, records and files without success? I'm using VMS 7.2 and a Cipher SCSI tape. TIA e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Dec 9 16:46:58 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: reading tapes in bad conditions Message-ID: <991209174658.21e00659@trailing-edge.com> >Anybody know some trick to bring back at least part of it? I tried skipping >blocks, records and files without success? I'm using VMS 7.2 and a Cipher SCSI >tape. It depends on the SCSI tape drive's firmware, but with many you'll be able to skip over bad parts with a combination of SET MAGTAPE/SKIP=FILES and SET MAGTAPE/SKIP=RECORDS. If the SCSI tape drive won't let you do this, it's probably because its firmware thinks that a tape error means end-of-tape and won't let you go past. I can't make any other recommendation other than to get a different drive (preferably, something with a "less intelligent" interface. It's rarely good when the peripheral thinks you know better than it what you want it to do!) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Dec 9 16:51:10 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: Message-ID: <991209175110.21e00659@trailing-edge.com> >> Still a reliable surplus vendor, incidentally: >> >> http://www.cadigital.com/ >*Snort!* One of the few places I've seen that makes the >prices on E-Bay look cheap. Their target market is definitely >*not* hobbyists. Those 8" drive prices are for new-in-the-box never used drives, incidentally. If I'm charging a customer $100 an hour to go on site and service their machine, I'm not doing them a favor by installing a heavily-used drive to save a few bucks. And if you want to compare prices, maybe you want to look in the back of a late-70's BYTE, see that a Shugart 801 sold for $350+ back then to hobbyists, adjust for inflation since then, and arrive at an adjusted price today of over $1000 for a new Shugart 801. California Digital's prices are a bargain by this method. I certainly can't justify keeping parts in my inventory for over twenty years! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Dec 9 16:53:08 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: reading tapes in bad conditions Message-ID: <991209175308.21e00659@trailing-edge.com> I wrote: >(preferably, something with a "less intelligent" interface. It's rarely >good when the peripheral thinks you know better than it what you want it to >do!) Reverse that last sentence to apply the DWIM [1] operator to my typing :-) Tim. [1] Do What I Meant From enrico.badella at softstar.it Thu Dec 9 17:03:45 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: reading tapes in bad conditions References: <991209174658.21e00659@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <38503551.E93D27B0@softstar.it> CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > > It depends on the SCSI tape drive's firmware, but with many you'll be able > to skip over bad parts with a combination of SET MAGTAPE/SKIP=FILES using skip=file:1 the first read returns EOT > and SET MAGTAPE/SKIP=RECORDS. depending on the number of records skiped vmstpce returns parity error or EOT. There seems to be no correlation between number of records and error type. I was thinking of strange suggestions like those to get stuck RD53 working again. > If the SCSI tape drive won't let you do this, it's probably because its firmware > thinks that a tape error means end-of-tape and won't let you go past. I > can't make any other recommendation other than to get a different drive > (preferably, something with a "less intelligent" interface. It's rarely Eric, I guess you'll have to wait untill I have set up again the 3420 tapes; these probably are old enough to not be too smart. e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Dec 9 17:07:51 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: reading tapes in bad conditions Message-ID: <991209180751.21e00659@trailing-edge.com> >depending on the number of records skiped vmstpce returns parity error >or EOT. There seems to be no correlation between number of records and error >type. Keep in mind that VMSTPCE, by default, does a rewind before doing the image, so your SET MAG/SKIP commands probably don't mean anything anyway. You need /NOREWIND to force it to not rewind. VMSTPCE also has the "/ERROR" switch to make it ignore erros. I suspect your tape drive thinks its too smart to read past an error though. >I was thinking of strange suggestions like those to get stuck RD53 working >again. For 800 BPI, you can always move the start-of-tape marker past the crinkled tape. This will work for *some*, but not all, 1600 BPI tape drives too. (There's a ID burst at the start of a 1600 BPI tape that some drives will insist on finding.) Same for 6250. >Eric, I guess you'll have to wait untill I have set up again the 3420 tapes; >these probably are old enough to not be too smart. What's the project, out of curiosity? I've only got a dozen 9-track drives here that might help :-) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Dec 9 17:20:32 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:12 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: <991209175110.21e00659@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991209182032.009b3240@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com may have mentioned these words: >Those 8" drive prices are for new-in-the-box never used drives, >incidentally. If I'm charging a customer $100 an hour to go on site >and service their machine, I'm not doing them a favor by installing >a heavily-used drive to save a few bucks. I won't dispute that for a second... >And if you want to compare prices, maybe you want to look in the back >of a late-70's BYTE, see that a Shugart 801 sold for $350+ back then >to hobbyists, adjust for inflation since then, and arrive at an adjusted >price today of over $1000 for a new Shugart 801. California Digital's >prices are a bargain by this method. I certainly can't justify keeping >parts in my inventory for over twenty years! and I agree with you here, as well... but: $69USD for a 2x Acer CD-ROM??? We sell Creative 48X's for $65 and make a decent profit at that... $9.59USD for 1 CD-R Media??? We sell 'em $15 for a box of 10... $259USD for an Intel 9600 bps PCMCIA modem??? Surely, they must realize that no-one in their right minds are going to pay those prices... Just FYI... a few more redeemers: Click on the "computers" link (where I was expecting to see IBM/AT's for $4000 each... ;-) and you'll see: $ 35 Tano Dragon Process Control Computer Kit Actually, a copy of the Radio Shack Color Computer, completely packaged in a consumer case. Computer includes: motherboard, keyboard, memory, power supply and case. This 6809 based computer is called the Tano Dragon. ==================================== Click on the "software" link and you'll see: $ 9 Digital Research CP/M Long before Bill Gates, Long before Microsoft--there was Digital Research. Gary Kildall authored CP/M, the operating system that launched the micro computer. Several years ago, Gary died mysteriously at a young age. The remnants of Gary's company, Digital Research, were acquired by Novell. Digital Research is now only a memory to those who were into computers before the Microsoft monopoly. Regardless, California Digital has 2000 licensed copies of CP/M with complete documentation. CP/M was the most recognized microcomputer disk operating system in the world. In fact Digital Research controlled over 70% of the microcomputer market. There are still thousands of systems operating under CP/M. Original Digital Research price was $259. Make offer on quantities of 100 plus. ==================================== And yes... $2000 for an electrostatic plotter really isn't a bad deal, if you actually need one of these monsters. Oh, some of their X-10 stuff looks like it might be cheaper than RS, too... tho that ain't saying much. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 9 16:55:28 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) In-Reply-To: <001b01bf4288$3cd5e720$a626d1d8@default> from "John B" at Dec 9, 99 03:59:09 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 263 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991209/b22aea04/attachment.ksh From spicer at computerhistory.org Thu Dec 9 17:14:15 1999 From: spicer at computerhistory.org (Dag Spicer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: DEC/Compaq Collection Arrives Tuesday, December 14! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991209151415.00b5a350@mail.netcare.com> Hi Everyone! The largest single remaining collection of historical DEC equipment in the world arrives at the History Center in three 51 foot tractor trailers this coming Tuesday, December 14 and Thursday, December 16th. Thanks to Compaq Corporation, this tremendous "family tree" of DEC equipment will be preserved for future generations to enjoy, study from, and marvel at. Thanks to Compaq also for underwriting the shipping of this unique collection to the History Center in Mountain View where it will form part of the Center's permanent collection. Highlights from the donation include: VAX 11/750 VAX 11/780 VAX 11/780 Eastern block clone VAX 11/730 VAX 8300 VAX 9000 LINC 8 PDP-1 PDP-4 PDP-5 PDP-6 PDP-7 PDP-8A/E/L/M PDP-9 PDP-9L PDP-10 (KA) PDP-11/23 PDP-11/40 PDP-11/60 PDP-12 PDP-15 VT52 VT320 VT100 VT100 AA GIGI Hundreds more items including tape drives, disk drives, manuals, line printers, sfotware, museum displays, &c. These items will form the backbone of a new exhibit, scheduled to open to the public in January, 2000, on DEC's many pioneering contributions to computing. I will post images of the unloading for everyone within the next few days at the following URL: http://www.computerhistory.org/events/latest/ In the meantime, if you have any questions about the donation or about the History Center generally, please feel free to drop me a line. Best wishes, Dag. -- Dag Spicer Curator & Manager of Historical Collections Editorial Board, IEEE Annals of the History of Computing The Computer Museum History Center Building T12-A NASA Ames Research Center Mountain View, CA 94035 Offices: Building T12-A Exhibit Area: Building 126 Tel: +1 650 604 2578 Fax: +1 650 604 2594 E-m: spicer@computerhistory.org WWW: http://www.computerhistory.org PGP: 15E31235 (E6ECDF74 349D1667 260759AD 7D04C178) S/V T12 Read about the latest History Center developments in "CORE," our quarterly on-line newsletter: http://www.computerhistory.org/events/core/1.1/ From dylanb at sympatico.ca Thu Dec 9 16:38:26 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <005501bf4296$1b95e840$a626d1d8@default> -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 6:34 PM Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) >> >> H Frequency : 68.7 >> > >> >US TV is 15.570kHz, VGA is 31.25kHz or thereabouts. >> >> No, the US TV (NTSC) Scan Rate is 15.750Khz > >Yes, you're right (525 lines/picture * 30 pictures/second). It was just a >typo, honest :-) I have seen the quality of information you provide here... I am sure it was a typo... I wasn't following the thread so I wanted to make sure the guy wasn't going to line up something at 15570 ;-) john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com > >-tony > > From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 9 17:51:14 1999 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Done did it. Message-ID: <19991209235114.51144.qmail@hotmail.com> >Someone responded privately that they found no hits on Deja News. >Here's what I do in a typical search... > >I entered "Commodore Hyperion" (no quotes) in the "quick search" >area at the upper right of their start page. It returned no results. >That's OK. Down below, there's a copy of your query. Change >"Search [recent] messages" to [past], then click "Search" >next to it. (Selecting [all] would work, too.) > >Presto, a bunch of hits. Some are from Dr. Peter Kittel. He >worked at Commodore Germany, it looks like he knows a bit about it. >He'd probably respond to an e-mail if you sent him one. > >- John I done did that already. I was was right too! The C= Hyperion was a Dynalogic/ComTerm/Bytec Hyperion with a Commodore name on it! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 9 17:37:30 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: reading tapes in bad conditions In-Reply-To: <991209174658.21e00659@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at Dec 9, 99 05:46:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 884 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991209/79c70fba/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 9 18:05:57 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: NTSC sync rate (was Re: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?)) In-Reply-To: <001b01bf4288$3cd5e720$a626d1d8@default> (dylanb@sympatico.ca) References: <001b01bf4288$3cd5e720$a626d1d8@default> Message-ID: <19991210000557.18955.qmail@brouhaha.com> "John B" wrote: Tony wrote: > US TV is 15.570kHz, VGA is 31.25kHz or thereabouts. John B wrote: > No, the US TV (NTSC) Scan Rate is 15.750Khz Well, if you want to get nitpicky, the NTSC horizontal sync rate is 15.73425 KHz. The old EIA RS-170 monochrome standard was 15.750 KHz, but that is not suitable for NTSC color use. The color burst frequency is 3.579545 MHz +/- 10 Hz, and the the horizontal rate is required to be exactly 2/455 of that frequency. Otherwise the color information will produce luma artifacts and/or interfere with the sound carrier. Note that they could have chosen to make the color carrier 3.583125 MHz, and kept all the video timing exactly the same as for RS-170. Then they would have had to raise the center frequency of the audio carrier by 0.1%. The FCC apparently would not let them make that change, in the interest of compatability with existing monochrome receivers (which is incredibly stupid, since the receivers wouldn't have even noticed), so they had to lower everything else by 0.1% instead. Thus the need for disgusting hacks like drop-frame time code. Sigh. Eric Reference: _A Technical Introduction to Digital Video_ by Charles A. Poynton, John Wiley & Sons, 1996 From dylanb at sympatico.ca Thu Dec 9 17:40:48 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: NTSC sync rate (was Re: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB?)) Message-ID: <009d01bf429e$d22a0b60$a626d1d8@default> PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 7:35 PM Subject: NTSC sync rate (was Re: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB?)) >"John B" wrote: >Tony wrote: >> US TV is 15.570kHz, VGA is 31.25kHz or thereabouts. > >John B wrote: >> No, the US TV (NTSC) Scan Rate is 15.750Khz > >Well, if you want to get nitpicky, the NTSC horizontal sync >rate is 15.73425 KHz. I know.. I didn't want to get *picky*.. the vertical rate is 59.94... > >The old EIA RS-170 monochrome standard was 15.750 KHz, but that >is not suitable for NTSC color use. The color burst frequency >is 3.579545 MHz +/- 10 Hz, and the the horizontal rate is required >to be exactly 2/455 of that frequency. Otherwise the color information >will produce luma artifacts and/or interfere with the sound carrier. > >Note that they could have chosen to make the color carrier 3.583125 MHz, >and kept all the video timing exactly the same as for RS-170. Then they >would have had to raise the center frequency of the audio carrier by >0.1%. The FCC apparently would not let them make that change, in the >interest of compatability with existing monochrome receivers (which is >incredibly stupid, since the receivers wouldn't have even noticed), so >they had to lower everything else by 0.1% instead. Thus the need for >disgusting hacks like drop-frame time code. Sigh. > >Eric > > >Reference: _A Technical Introduction to Digital Video_ by Charles A. >Poynton, John Wiley & Sons, 1996 > From dylanb at sympatico.ca Thu Dec 9 17:49:36 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: I jfound the engineer who DESIGNED THE PDP-8/S Message-ID: <00a401bf42a0$0cf13c40$a626d1d8@default> Amazing................................................. I am getting a lot of new documentation which seems to be refute some of the facts on the PDP-8 FAQ. I have been in contact with quite a few retired DEC engineers from the '60s. I was able to find the sole designer of the PDP-8/S who is now retired, Saul B. Dinman, Product Line Manager, Module Product Line -1966-69 I have updated my website with pictures of the prototype PDP-8/S which was built entirely on Laboratory Blue Plug-in Panels (Blue ones - H901) in 1966. I also got a lot more information on the 8/S and will be posting a lot more information on the Patents Saul acquired as a result of the design of the PDP-8/S. Please go to http://www.pdp8.com/ , click on the 8/S picture. and click on the prototype link. Changes to the text are now in Bold. WARNING!!! Pictures are big and take up much bandwidth! I am gathering documentation from prior DEC engineers to make changes to the PDP-8 FAQ. Enjoy! john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 9 19:10:57 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: GRI-909 Message-ID: <199912100110.RAA28378@spies.com> "I was able to find the sole designer of the PDP-8/S who is now retired, Saul B. Dinman, Product Line Manager, Module Product Line -1966-69 " Interesting reading... The GRI-909 is ALSO an interesting 16 bit machine. There is mention of it in Korn's minicomputer book, and Allen Baum has a little information on it. It would be interesting to find out if Saul has any information on it in his archives. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 9 19:15:01 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Any German DEC fans around? In-Reply-To: <009d01bf429e$d22a0b60$a626d1d8@default> from "John B" at Dec 09, 1999 06:40:48 PM Message-ID: <199912100115.RAA27576@shell1.aracnet.com> Just found in comp.sys.dec, looks like anyone in Germany might have a chance to get some pretty decent looking MicroVAX II systems, though it looks like only one is currently in working condition. As always, don't reply to me, reply to the person with the stuff. Zane Thu, 09 Dec 1999 07:51:19 comp.sys.dec.micro Thread 41 of 41 Lines 34 antiques microvaxes for sale 3 Responses Christof Neuberger at Nacamar Group Plc. Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec,comp.sys.dec.micro 3 microvaxes for sale 1. MicroVax II ethernet SCSI 16MB (probably defect) TK50 not bootable 2. MicroVax II ethernet 16MB 3 harddisks type RD54 TK70 roller box bootable !!! 3. MicroVax II ethernet 3 harddisks type RD54 16MB (probably defekt) TK70 roller box not bootable no licences!!!. Price: to discuss Greetings, Christof Neuberger email: cneuberger@psi.de From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 9 19:28:05 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: GRI-909 Message-ID: <199912100128.RAA29279@spies.com> FWIW, here is one patent probably on the 909 (3631401) Unfortunatly, IBM doesn't have it on line, nor do they have any mention of the ones for the 8/S From dylanb at sympatico.ca Thu Dec 9 18:27:19 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: GRI-909 Message-ID: <00e601bf42a5$5197c080$a626d1d8@default> I have requested a copy of all the patents and info regarding the PDP-8/S and the GRI-909. I will post them too. I asked him for a GRI-909 but.... Unfortunately he thought no one was interested in the 8/S or the GRI-909 so he hauled them both to the dump 6 years ago. :-( :-( :-( :-( , etc.... I am *really* unhappy about that...... john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: Al Kossow To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 8:28 PM Subject: GRI-909 > >FWIW, here is one patent probably on the 909 (3631401) >Unfortunatly, IBM doesn't have it on line, nor do they have >any mention of the ones for the 8/S > From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Thu Dec 9 20:09:31 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT - List changes - Hopefully no more spam! Message-ID: <199912100209.SAA31432@saul5.u.washington.edu> Hi, After the recent spam episode and Bruce Lane's frustrated outburst, I have changed the configuration of the CLASSICCMP list. Non-subscribers may no longer send messages. Luckily, when a non-subscriber sends a message, it is returned to them with insturctions about how to subscribe. It is also sent to me. That solves the problem of legitimate non-subscriber messages that I was worried about. In a few cases I will probably agree to forward messages without making people subscribe. There is also a "feature" of the software (I use the term loosely, as with a lot of the other "features") that saves non-subscriber messages, or maybe hashes them and then saves them. If the same message is sent more than once, it simply disappears with no errors. This happens even if the non-subscriber subscribes and then sends the message again. I don't know if it happens if the non-subscriber sends the same message from a different address. The solution (which is explained in the automated reply) is to change the contents of the message and then send it again. Although that is a cute spam-preventing feature, I will probably end up sending reminders to the legitimate non-subscribers so they don't get confused when their messages vanish. I discovered that five people who post here often weren't actually subscribed. I already replied to them personally and apologized for the confusion. Hopefully I'll get fewer bounces after they subscribe. Unfortunately, the requirement that each person must use a specific address is going to become even more annoying; messages from alternate addresses slipped through before, but now they will be rejected. Let me know if you have any other questions. -- Derek From jpero at cgocable.net Thu Dec 9 15:26:53 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Silly dealers and comments. In-Reply-To: <199912092339.SAA11813@admin.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199912100225.VAA03306@admin.cgocable.net> Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1999 18:40:29 +0000 Reply-to: listproc@u.washington.edu From: listproc@u.washington.edu To: jpero@cgocable.net Cc: dpeschel@u.washington.edu Subject: Silly Dealers and comments Modified email due to emailing list requirements. Hi, > $69USD for a 2x Acer CD-ROM??? We sell Creative 48X's for $65 and make a > decent profit at that... Creative's cd drives *knocks* who? who? Creative only resells cdrom drives that they could find cheapest batch of that. I rather not to. > $9.59USD for 1 CD-R Media??? We sell 'em $15 for a box of 10... That's would be good quality CD-R media like TDK, KAO, Sony etc. Cheap cd-r's do cause problems. I just heard from my friend who tried Memorex and few other "inexpensive" brands and it didn't do very well. What is the brand of those box of 10 cd-r your business are selling? No, not from that dealer. From reputable resellers when I buy stuff. Wizard From cfandt at netsync.net Thu Dec 9 20:32:27 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Collecting Perspective was: Re: GRI-909 In-Reply-To: <00e601bf42a5$5197c080$a626d1d8@default> Message-ID: <4.1.19991209205031.00ab6ee0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 07:27 PM 12/9/99 -0500, John B said something like: >I have requested a copy of all the patents and info regarding the PDP-8/S >and the GRI-909. I will post them too. > >I asked him for a GRI-909 but.... > >Unfortunately he thought no one was interested in the 8/S or the GRI-909 so >he hauled them both to the dump 6 years ago. > >:-( :-( :-( :-( , etc.... > >I am *really* unhappy about that...... Yeah, but who wudda thunk? Six years ago, except for a few individuals and some of the public museums and a few companies, nobody had really gotten very deep into gathering history/collecting of computers. Though I had been exclusively into collecting radios and other early electronics rather deeply since the early 70's, I was recalling to myself just today how I had a *huge* and *heavy* 1973-vintage DG 6000-series fixed disk drive I dismantled for scrap in 1986 because I had *no* room nor perceived need for it (Flog me later, please :-/). No idea that there would be *gasp!* _COLLECTORS_ of such stuff by the mid-late 90's!!! Thankfully, I still have the DG 1200 computer, tapes, docs and stuff since I thought it was a really cool machine to keep at the time. Rescued this DG gear from the pile of stuff heading to the dumpster at work in 1984. Thank Heaven I was able to get connected to the Internet in '92 via Delphi and discover there _were_ computer collectors. Nowadays, thankfully, there is a growing core of individuals (ourselves) who have discovered this computer collecting/preservation interest and are taking up the cause. It appears to me there is getting to be a very good overall collection worldwide of surviving older machines with possibly more to be shaken outta the bushes. Perhaps it is indeed time to formally create a national/worldwide club like the AWA, etc. -except it'll be for computational machines. I'm going to will my most uncommon/significant radios, tubes, docs and, if I find any, significant computers to appropriate museums and significant collectors when my hard disk finally gets sticktion :-) Sell/give the rest to others. All in the interest to keep them preserved for the future instead of my wife/other survivers being saddled with wondering what the heck to do with them. But many early computers are lost forever . . . Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 9 20:31:22 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: cadigital.com In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991209182032.009b3240@127.0.0.1> References: <991209175110.21e00659@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991209203122.00f966a0@pc> At 06:20 PM 12/9/99 -0500, Roger Merchberger wrote: >$69USD for a 2x Acer CD-ROM??? We sell Creative 48X's for $65 and make a >decent profit at that... >$9.59USD for 1 CD-R Media??? We sell 'em $15 for a box of 10... >$259USD for an Intel 9600 bps PCMCIA modem??? >Surely, they must realize that no-one in their right minds are going to pay >those prices... Perhaps they want to insure they'll have some on hand in 20 years when they're rare and valuable. :-) - John From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Dec 9 20:59:22 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Wanted: PDP-11 Message-ID: <19991209205922.C7928@mrbill.net> Another night of scrounging eBay's "Vintage" category has left me with that urge once again.. so if anyone has a PDP-11 system for sale or trade within reasonable driving or shipping distance of Austin, Texas, please let me know. Bill -- Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using Windows NT for mission-critical applications." -- What Yoda *meant* to say From at258 at osfn.org Thu Dec 9 21:25:17 1999 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Collecting Perspective was: Re: GRI-909 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991209205031.00ab6ee0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Dec 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: > Thank Heaven I was able to get connected to the Internet in '92 via Delphi >and discover there _were_ computer collectors. At our Open House on sunday, one visitor mentioned his company just scrapped two Sperry Univacs because they didn't know of anyone that wanted them. Doesn't that make you want to cry? From musicman38 at mindspring.com Thu Dec 9 21:38:29 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <009a01bf42c0$07ff7740$05358ad1@home> >Yes, this monitor has analogue RGB inputs with separate syncs. But the >scan rates are neither US TV rates (which is what the C128 produces) or >VGA. I believe some SVGA cards could drive this given suitable software >(Xfree86 could probably do it if you run linux). >> Monitor Specifications: (From the Website) >> H Frequency : 68.7 > >US TV is 15.570kHz, VGA is 31.25kHz or thereabouts. > >> V Frequency : 75 Hz > >US TV is 60Hz, as is VGA (?) Info I have found says it runs 1152 X 870 at 75 Hz I seem to be getting several different opinions on the HP 19 inch monitor. From musicman38 at mindspring.com Thu Dec 9 22:24:34 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <00a901bf42c6$78341420$05358ad1@home> I have found a manufacturer that seems to have an adaptor to allow me to use my HP A2094 monitor with my standard PC for only $30.00. Could this actually work ? I am not a monitor expert so could someone tell me if this could work by adding composite sync on pin 13, and on green pin 2 ? Looks to me that It would only be MONO if this is done ? Here is the information from their site: PC Sync Adapter (Cost $30.00) HD-15 Male to HD-15 Female adapter provides composite sync (pin 13) and sync on green (pin 2). Here is the standard pinouts for a VGA video card that I found: VGA DB15-S Female DB9 Female 15-pin 9-pin assignment 1 1 Red 2 2 Green 3 3 Blue 4 - Monitor ID bit 2 5 - N/C 6 6 GND (red return) 7 7 GND (green return) 8 8 GND (blue return) 9 - N/C 10 - GND 11 - Monitor ID bit 0 12 - Minitor ID bit 1 13 4 Horizontal Sync 14 5 Vertical Sync 15 - N/C From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 9 21:56:53 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) In-Reply-To: <00a901bf42c6$78341420$05358ad1@home> (musicman38@mindspring.com) References: <00a901bf42c6$78341420$05358ad1@home> Message-ID: <19991210035653.19859.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I have found a manufacturer that seems to have an adaptor to allow me to use > my HP A2094 monitor with my standard PC for only $30.00. > Could this actually work ? It doesn't solve the timing problem, just the wiring. As long as you can get your software to program the video card for the right timing, it will be usable. Note that this means that you won't be able to see standard VGA settings nor text modes (e.g., the BIOS settings, DOS command-line-only, etc.) There are special video cards that can support a fixed frequency monitor even in text modes, but I'm told that they cost about $200. As mentioned previously, even with a "standard" video card, XFree86 under Linux or FreeBSD can be configured for any video timing you need. However, you won't be able to use the display outside of X. From lemay at cs.umn.edu Thu Dec 9 22:36:36 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) In-Reply-To: <00a901bf42c6$78341420$05358ad1@home> from Phil Clayton at "Dec 9, 1999 11:24:34 pm" Message-ID: <199912100436.EAA02720@thorin.cs.umn.edu> > I have found a manufacturer that seems to have an adaptor to allow me to use > my HP A2094 monitor with my standard PC for only $30.00. > Could this actually work ? It will help you just as much as wrapping a rubber band around the video cable. Sure, the rubber band wont do a damn thing for you, but it will cost a lot less than $30.00 ;) > I am not a monitor expert so could someone tell me if this could work by > adding composite sync on pin 13, and on green pin 2 ? > Looks to me that It would only be MONO if this is done ? > > Here is the information from their site: > > PC Sync Adapter (Cost $30.00) You dont need a sync adaptor. Your monitor has 5 BNC connectors, and can thus accept separate sync. This is a GOOD thing. Especially since your video card generates separate sync. Now, you say that some source mentions that the monitor is not VGA compatible. Most likely, this is because the monitor doesnt support a 640X480 @ 60Hz mode. When IBM compatible computers boot up, they always use this video mode, and later in the boot sequence they switch to whatever mode you specify. SO. IF this monitor is going to work at all, what you need is a video cable with 5 BNC connectors on one end, and a HD15 connector on the other. If the monitor doesnt support 640x480, then you would have to use another monitor to set windows to the correct resolution and refresh rate, and then switch monitors. Thereafter, when the machine is booted up, the monitor would not sync up until the boot sequence reached the point where it changes to the correct resolution and sync rate. Of course, if something goes wrong, you wont have a clue whats wrong until you switch monitors... Dont pay more than $15 for the video cable, and make sure it comes with a toroid of some sort. As long as you're sure your IBM video card can be set to that maximum resolution and refresh rate that the monitor can handle, I would say this has an excellent chance of working. -Lawrence (using a good HP A4032A 17" monitor some company discarded) LeMay From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 9 22:25:15 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: <991209155300.21e0064a@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: >>There was a lot of local interest in these machines back in about '78. = >>California Digital, a sometime surplus vendor > >Still a reliable surplus vendor, incidentally: > > http://www.cadigital.com/ > >Perhaps the best-known NOS selection of 8" floppy drives anywhere in the >world, as well as 8" media and cleaning kits. Some of the prices don't look like they have been updated in a decade though, 2 MB ram simms for $59 etc. From musicman38 at mindspring.com Thu Dec 9 23:27:18 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <00c201bf42cf$3b7bdd20$05358ad1@home> >There are special video cards that can support a fixed frequency monitor >even in text modes, but I'm told that they cost about $200. Thanks everyone for the great information. I have now found a Fixed Frequency VGA Card that supports all Fixed Freq monitors for $139 to $159 in PCI or AGP.. http://www.si87.com/Products/Videocards/saturngl.html This would resolve any problems using this monitor. But the big question now, is this monitor really worth the cost of a new Video Card ? Or does it make more sense to just buy a new monitor ? Good Points: 1. Its a Big 19 inch monitor.. 2. It has an aperture grille, used in high end Sony type monitors. 3. Its an HP monitor its clean and no screen burn. 4. According to specs this monitor will support 3D graphics directly with the right video card. 5. According to Specs it supports an impressive 1158 X 870 resolution. 6. Seems like I get a good working 19 monitor for only $160.00 Negative Points: 1. Its 6 years old. 2. Don;t know how many hours are on it. 3. History is unknown.. 4. The Sucker is Big and weighs a ton.. So Should I do this or Not ? Phil... From donm at cts.com Thu Dec 9 23:38:27 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: <00c201bf42cf$3b7bdd20$05358ad1@home> Message-ID: I acquired this item a while back in the original box, but hardware only. A cursory scan of the web has not turned up any significant amount of information other than rather general this is what it does stuff. Can any one point me at something that resembles an owner's manual. Is there special software needed? Thanks! - don From edick at idcomm.com Fri Dec 10 00:43:06 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <001a01bf42d9$d1bca1c0$0400c0a8@winbook> If you have a cable which separates the 3 video colors and their returns from the DE-15 and also brings up the two sync signals you're on your way, but you need to put an adapter in the cable in order to allow you to invert sync polarity in case the video board requires it. If you have 5 BNC's, that normally means you don't need the 500-ohm resistor to green video from the comp sync pin on your video board's application connector. That just imposes sync on green, which won't help with your 5-bnc monitor. The key question is whether or not the video card can produce a sync combination palatable to your monitor. I believe the A2094 uses a 72-Hz vertical rate to produce 1280x1024. at 72 Hz, that exceeds the capabilities of most video DACs as normally found on PC video cards. Knowing that, I'd not expect to find a card for just a few dollars (few meaning <<1k) which is up to the task. Most current generation video boards interlace the 1280x1024 at 83 Hz in order to stay within the DAC's capabilities. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Lawrence LeMay To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 09, 1999 10:58 PM Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) >> I have found a manufacturer that seems to have an adaptor to allow me to use >> my HP A2094 monitor with my standard PC for only $30.00. >> Could this actually work ? > >It will help you just as much as wrapping a rubber band around the >video cable. Sure, the rubber band wont do a damn thing for you, but >it will cost a lot less than $30.00 ;) > >> I am not a monitor expert so could someone tell me if this could work by >> adding composite sync on pin 13, and on green pin 2 ? >> Looks to me that It would only be MONO if this is done ? >> >> Here is the information from their site: >> >> PC Sync Adapter (Cost $30.00) > >You dont need a sync adaptor. Your monitor has 5 BNC connectors, and can >thus accept separate sync. This is a GOOD thing. Especially since your >video card generates separate sync. > >Now, you say that some source mentions that the monitor is not VGA >compatible. Most likely, this is because the monitor doesnt support >a 640X480 @ 60Hz mode. When IBM compatible computers boot up, they always >use this video mode, and later in the boot sequence they switch to >whatever mode you specify. > >SO. IF this monitor is going to work at all, what you need is a video >cable with 5 BNC connectors on one end, and a HD15 connector on the >other. If the monitor doesnt support 640x480, then you would have to use >another monitor to set windows to the correct resolution and refresh >rate, and then switch monitors. Thereafter, when the machine is booted up, >the monitor would not sync up until the boot sequence reached the point where >it changes to the correct resolution and sync rate. Of course, if something >goes wrong, you wont have a clue whats wrong until you switch monitors... > >Dont pay more than $15 for the video cable, and make sure it comes with >a toroid of some sort. As long as you're sure your IBM video card can be set >to that maximum resolution and refresh rate that the monitor can handle, >I would say this has an excellent chance of working. > >-Lawrence (using a good HP A4032A 17" monitor some company discarded) LeMay From aek at spies.com Fri Dec 10 01:38:07 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: TI 990 DX10 overview manual Message-ID: <199912100738.XAA08693@spies.com> Volume I of the DX10 OS manual is pdf-ed and on spies now under the TI section of www.spies.com/aek/orphan.html thanks to dylanb@sympatico.ca for forwarding it to me to scan. There are lots of other documentation still to find, though. From enrico.badella at softstar.it Fri Dec 10 02:05:20 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: reading tapes in bad conditions References: <991209180751.21e00659@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3850B440.FF510E5E@softstar.it> CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > > Keep in mind that VMSTPCE, by default, does a rewind before doing > the image, so your SET MAG/SKIP commands probably don't mean anything > anyway. You need /NOREWIND to force it to not rewind. > > VMSTPCE also has the "/ERROR" switch to make it ignore erros. I > suspect your tape drive thinks its too smart to read past an error though. I did study carefully the help ;-) also some time ago I was able to recover an apparently bad tape with set mag/skip=record:2 and vmstpce/error > >I was thinking of strange suggestions like those to get stuck RD53 working > >again. > > For 800 BPI, you can always move the start-of-tape marker past the > crinkled tape. This will work for *some*, but not all, 1600 BPI tape I've never done this before. How do you exactly move the SOT marker? Doesn't look like something that can be peeled off. Do you cut the bad tape off and glue it behinh the marker? Please give me some hints. > >Eric, I guess you'll have to wait untill I have set up again the 3420 tapes; > >these probably are old enough to not be too smart. > > What's the project, out of curiosity? I've only got a dozen 9-track > drives here that might help :-) Getting some iAPX 432 tools e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 10 00:59:05 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: the empty thread In-Reply-To: <991209175110.21e00659@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: >And if you want to compare prices, maybe you want to look in the back >of a late-70's BYTE, see that a Shugart 801 sold for $350+ back then >to hobbyists, adjust for inflation since then, and arrive at an adjusted >price today of over $1000 for a new Shugart 801. California Digital's >prices are a bargain by this method. I certainly can't justify keeping >parts in my inventory for over twenty years! This defines a whole class of "surplus" dealers, and its fine with me, but I don't ever buy there unless I just have to have some left hand widget nobody else could provide. Legacy suppliers are what I call them. They buy up complete old parts inventories and milk them for the last dime. From enrico.badella at softstar.it Fri Dec 10 02:32:29 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Collecting Perspective was: Re: GRI-909 References: Message-ID: <3850BA9D.278619E0@softstar.it> "Merle K. Peirce" wrote: > > On Thu, 9 Dec 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: > > Thank Heaven I was able to get connected to the Internet in '92 via Delphi > >and discover there _were_ computer collectors. > > At our Open House on sunday, one visitor mentioned his company just > scrapped two Sperry Univacs because they didn't know of anyone that > wanted them. Doesn't that make you want to cry? I know of a place that have 3 Convex (don't know the models); two small ones have been already partly stripped down. There is still a big one running that will be decomissioned soon. At the moment I don't have much space left after getting thier 4381 e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From wrm at ccii.co.za Fri Dec 10 05:43:38 1999 From: wrm at ccii.co.za (Wouter de Waal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: HP UX info required Message-ID: <199912101157.NAA10774@ccii.co.za> Hi all I need help with an HP/UX box. I don't know much about the thing except that it has two hard drives connected to the first (0) HPIB cable and a tape drive connected to the third cable (ID 3). Problem is that the existing software looks for the tape drive at /dev/rct/c7d0s2, and can't find it. The device entry c7d0s2 has a major number 7 and a minor number 0x400702. Am I correct in thinking that the minor number related to the HPIB address in some way, because I expect the tape drive to be 4.2.3.0.0.0. Please bear with me, this is the first time in my life I've seen an HP/UX box, so I'm pretty clueless. What do I need to find out about the box to make the tape drive work? Thanks Wouter PS: Anybody have Apollo 3500 hardware info for me? And where can I get a copy of Domain/OS, my one tape seems buggered? From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 10 08:57:35 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: References: <00c201bf42cf$3b7bdd20$05358ad1@home> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991210085735.27979722@mailhost.intellistar.net> Don, What do you want with that? You can't use it on a CPM computer. You'd better throw it out. While you're at it throw it this way! If don't believe that then I can make a copy of the manual for you. You don't need any software for it but you do need a HP calculator or computer that has a HP-IL interface (HP 41, 71, 75, 85, etc). You *can't* use this with a computer with a serial port to make a IL controller. It's only a IL to RS-232 translator. It's main use is too allow communications between an HP with IL to a regular computer with RS-232. Joe At 09:38 PM 12/9/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I acquired this item a while back in the original box, but hardware >only. A cursory scan of the web has not turned up any significant >amount of information other than rather general this is what it does >stuff. > >Can any one point me at something that resembles an owner's manual. Is >there special software needed? > >Thanks! > - don > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 10 08:11:30 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: MIC 501/504 manuals Message-ID: <3851099b.2663313@mailhost.intellistar.net> I found this in the CPM news-group. Sounds like this guy knows a lot about the early Chinese CPM computers. Joe In comp.os.cpm, "Bil Hansen" wrote: >For anyone prepared to cover the cost of postage, I have a copy of the >MIC-501/MIC-504 service manual (in English) and the MIC-500 operator's >manual (in Chinese). I also have a number of CP/M manuals that are >available on the same basis. > >A transfer to Malaysia early next year has forced me reluctantly to >dispose of my 1983-built MIC-501 and associated terminal. Multitech >Industrial Corporation (MIC) was the early English name of the >company, now known as Acer Computers, started in Taiwan by Stan Shih. >The MIC-501 and MIC-504 Z-80 machines were marketed as business >computers and differed only in the capacity of their floppy drives. >The MIC 500 series was marketed under that brand name in many >jurisdictions in the early to mid-1980s. In some jurisdictions, local >companies, such as Pericomp in Australia, self-branded the machine. I >understand that prior ownership of the name 'Multitech' forced Stan >Shih to adopt what has since become the global brand name 'Acer' (the >name of his company has remained the same in Chinese). > >The MIC 500 series service manual is a photocopy (supplied to me by >the company HQ in Taiwan - I bought my machine in Taiwan) of 80 pages >dealing with: >I Hardware Operation Theory >II System Firmware >III BIOS Implementation >IV Mechanical Description >V Trouble shooting >with schematics. > >The MIC 500 series operator's manual is a glossy covered softback >original, in Chinese, introducing the MIC and CP/M 2.2. > >In Oct 1994, through this newsgroup, I had contact with Greg Holdren >at gholdren@citrus.sac.ca.us who had an MIC-504, so there is at least >one person out there nursing an MIC-500 series machine. > >Cheers > >Bil >-- >Makati MM, Philippines >http://www2.mozcom.com/~w_hansen/ > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 10 08:14:15 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe R.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: HP 9000/300 Message-ID: <38510a93.2911134@mailhost.intellistar.net> Anyone want a HP computer with HP-UX? Joe In comp.sys.hp.hardware, Ron wrote: >Mel Heillman wrote: > >> Does anyone have 9000/300 hardware for sale? >> Does anyone have HP Pascal for thsi machine? > >Hi Mel: > >I have a couple of 9000/300's available if you are interested. > >Each comes with a bootable hard drive (HP/ux 9.something), and a 16 >track HPIB tape drive. >Asking $100.00 each set, or best offer. >I also have the HP-HIL keyboards, mice, and some 19" monitors available. > >Please note, these are fairly heavy units and may prove a bit costly to >ship. > >Ron Gage - Saginaw, MI >(rongage@att.net) > > From thomas.h.lindberg at se.abb.com Fri Dec 10 07:21:37 1999 From: thomas.h.lindberg at se.abb.com (thomas.h.lindberg@se.abb.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface Message-ID: <41256843.00498627.00@smtp02.seinf.abb.se> Don, Joe, I might be able to help both of you! I believe that I have a manual for the HP-IL RS323 device somewhere, probably also the device itself. I'll check and revert. I also have an old HP 110+, the HP-IL printer that goes (went) with it, a HP-IL floppy drive (720kb), and a HP-IL GPIO device (General Purpose I/O). I'm willing to trade the HP-IL RS232 device for (almost) anything for the HP110+, S/W, firmware, or the memory expansion board. Suggestions, please! Thomas From macieks at pzl-okecie.com.pl Fri Dec 10 07:42:02 1999 From: macieks at pzl-okecie.com.pl (Maciej S Szymanski) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: VAXStation Message-ID: <3851032A.DD78DF5D@pzl-okecie.com.pl> For few months I'm owner of VAXStation 3100 M48. It has 24Mb of RAM, three 120Mb HDDs, TK50 tape and RRD40 cdrom. I'm quite new in this kind of equipment an have very little of experience. It's booting ok, two HDDs and tape works, but one of HDDs war broken and disconnected. And the cdrom drive don't work. When I try mount it I got 'Media off-line' message (It runs VMS 5.2). Is it problem with some jumper settings on drive or so ? Is it possible to get some hardware related manuals (I've few VMS manuals downloaded from the web). Thank you for any help. Maciek S. Szymanski From wrking at tsoft.com Thu Dec 9 18:00:15 1999 From: wrking at tsoft.com (William King) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Free: Sun 4/260 Message-ID: <003601bf42a1$8957e530$1501a8c0@trantor.frop.org> I've picked up a more or less complete Sun 4/260 the other day. (2 deskside cabinets). I haven't powered it on, but the system is complete (excepting the monitor). You can't beat the price (US $0.00). I'm in the San Francisco Bay area. Any takers? Bill From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 10 13:12:58 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: <41256843.00498627.00@smtp02.seinf.abb.se> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991210131258.3cd7bdbe@mailhost.intellistar.net> Thomas, You're in luck. I have tons of software for the 110. What are you looking for? I'm more interested in the GPIO interface though. Your disk drive is a 9114. The printer is a HP 2225 ThinkJet. I'm VERY familar with both of them. I've got AT LEAST a dozen of the drives and AT LEAST two dozen of the printers! Joe At 02:21 PM 12/10/99 +0100, you wrote: > > >Don, Joe, > >I might be able to help both of you! > >I believe that I have a manual for the HP-IL RS323 device somewhere, probably >also the device itself. I'll check and revert. > >I also have an old HP 110+, the HP-IL printer that goes (went) with it, a HP-IL >floppy drive (720kb), and a HP-IL GPIO device (General Purpose I/O). >I'm willing to trade the HP-IL RS232 device for (almost) anything for the >HP110+, S/W, firmware, or the memory expansion board. Suggestions, please! > >Thomas > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 10 13:28:58 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: FS: manual for MODEM for Tektronix 4010 series terminal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991210132858.44ff4bca@mailhost.intellistar.net> I spotted this in a surplus store this morning. Does anyone want it? It's a Tektronix manual for the option 37, 38 and 39 MODEM that goes in the 4010 series of terminals. The manual looks like new. $10 plus shipping. Let me know if you want it. Joe From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 10 13:15:11 1999 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: PDP-11/70 for Scrap Message-ID: <19991210191511.28684.qmail@hotmail.com> Jerome, New Mexico parallels almost the entire border of my state... I defintely am interested.. I lack a PDP-11, though I have about 16 or so other minis. Let me know more info. Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 10 12:47:50 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: (message from Mike Ford on Thu, 9 Dec 1999 20:25:15 -0800) References: Message-ID: <19991210184750.23146.qmail@brouhaha.com> >> Still a reliable surplus vendor, incidentally: >> http://www.cadigital.com/ >> Perhaps the best-known NOS selection of 8" floppy drives anywhere in the >> world, as well as 8" media and cleaning kits. > Some of the prices don't look like they have been updated in a decade > though, 2 MB ram simms for $59 etc. With most surplus vendors, I've had very good luck with bargaining on items having obviously outdated posted prices. But make a reasonable offer, not a really lowball one, or they'll not bother to talk to you. From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 10 12:51:12 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: (message from Don Maslin on Thu, 9 Dec 1999 21:38:27 -0800 (PST)) References: Message-ID: <19991210185112.23197.qmail@brouhaha.com> Don Maslin writes about an HP-IL/RS-232 interface box: > Can any one point me at something that resembles an owner's manual. I've got one. If there isn't already a scan available on the HP Museum CD-ROM (not available online, but you can order it, see the contents at www.hpmusum.org), let me know, and I'll scan it. > Is there special software needed? Depends on what computer you're using as the system controller, and what you want to do with it. I've used it for very simple things with my HP-41 as a controller, and I didn't need anything special. I just put the 41 HP-IL into manual I/O mode, selected the device, and used the "OUTA" command to send strings to the serial output. (This is from memory from about four years ago, so I've probably got the details wrong.) Eric From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 10 14:29:57 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991210085735.27979722@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, Joe wrote: > Don, > > What do you want with that? You can't use it on a CPM computer. You'd > better throw it out. While you're at it throw it this way! Gee, Joe, all of my CP/M stuff has RS-232C :) > If don't believe that then I can make a copy of the manual for you. You > don't need any software for it but you do need a HP calculator or computer > that has a HP-IL interface (HP 41, 71, 75, 85, etc). You *can't* use this > with a computer with a serial port to make a IL controller. It's only a IL > to RS-232 translator. It's main use is too allow communications between an > HP with IL to a regular computer with RS-232. I would certainly appreciate a copy of the manual. Seems like I picked up an ISA HP-IL card a while back and the software to drive it, too. If I interpret correctly, you are telling me that the HP-IL/RS-232C Interface is a receive only device, or am I misreading you. - don > >I acquired this item a while back in the original box, but hardware > >only. A cursory scan of the web has not turned up any significant > >amount of information other than rather general this is what it does > >stuff. > > > >Can any one point me at something that resembles an owner's manual. Is > >there special software needed? > > > >Thanks! > > - don > > > > > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 10 13:03:29 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: Collecting Perspective was: Re: GRI-909 In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991209205031.00ab6ee0@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Dec 9, 99 09:32:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1368 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991210/d27546e2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 10 14:02:07 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Dec 9, 99 09:38:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1011 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991210/cf93f3f0/attachment.ksh From peter at joules0.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 10 12:59:18 1999 From: peter at joules0.demon.co.uk (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: HP 9000/300 In-Reply-To: <38510a93.2911134@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <38510a93.2911134@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3YEk0OAG2UU4Ew$B@joules0.demon.co.uk> In article <38510a93.2911134@mailhost.intellistar.net>, Joe R. writes >Anyone want a HP computer with HP-UX? > >>Mel Heillman wrote: >> [Snip] >>Ron Gage - Saginaw, MI >>(rongage@att.net) >> Damn - wrong side of the Atlantic :( -- Regards Pete From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 10 16:33:28 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991209182032.009b3240@127.0.0.1> References: <991209175110.21e00659@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <199912102134.WAA27188@mail2.siemens.de> > $ 35 Tano Dragon Process Control Computer Kit > Actually, a copy of the Radio Shack Color > Computer, completely packaged in a > consumer case. Computer includes: > motherboard, keyboard, memory, power > supply and case. This 6809 based computer > is called the Tano Dragon. So, does this include only the bords, or some case, and what case ? They show a keyboard and some PCB in the upper photograpy, and an Dragon32 in the lower. ?? Servus H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 10 17:40:17 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19991210085735.27979722@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991210174017.3f3fd068@mailhost.intellistar.net> Don, At 12:29 PM 12/10/99 -0800, you wrote: > > >On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, Joe wrote: > >> Don, >> >> What do you want with that? You can't use it on a CPM computer. You'd >> better throw it out. While you're at it throw it this way! > >Gee, Joe, all of my CP/M stuff has RS-232C :) > >> If don't believe that then I can make a copy of the manual for you. You >> don't need any software for it but you do need a HP calculator or computer >> that has a HP-IL interface (HP 41, 71, 75, 85, etc). You *can't* use this >> with a computer with a serial port to make a IL controller. It's only a IL >> to RS-232 translator. It's main use is too allow communications between an >> HP with IL to a regular computer with RS-232. > >I would certainly appreciate a copy of the manual. Seems like I picked >up an ISA HP-IL card a while back and the software to drive it, too. Those are cool but they only run on a slow PC ( <~30 MHz). If >I interpret correctly, you are telling me that the HP-IL/RS-232C >Interface is a receive only device, or am I misreading you. You can consider it recieve only but it recieves from either side! Then it transmits out the opposite side. It can be both a talker and a reciever but it has no controller capability. It's used as a translator between HP-IL loop and RS-232 bus. It can send data either way but you have to have some sort of a HP-IL capable computer to act as the IL loop controller. For example you can use a HP calculator with the IL interface and this device to drive a RS-232 printer or you could use them to operate a meter with a RS-232 inteface (both sending and receiving). But you can't use a computer with a RS-232 interface and this to run HP-IL equipment like a HP 3468 meter. Joe From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 10 16:34:18 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991210174017.3f3fd068@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, Joe wrote: > >I would certainly appreciate a copy of the manual. Seems like I picked > >up an ISA HP-IL card a while back and the software to drive it, too. > > Those are cool but they only run on a slow PC ( <~30 MHz). Clock or bus? > If > >I interpret correctly, you are telling me that the HP-IL/RS-232C > >Interface is a receive only device, or am I misreading you. > > You can consider it recieve only but it recieves from either side! Then > it transmits out the opposite side. Gotcha! > It can be both a talker and a reciever but it has no controller > capability. It's used as a translator between HP-IL loop and RS-232 bus. It > can send data either way but you have to have some sort of a HP-IL capable > computer to act as the IL loop controller. For example you can use a HP > calculator with the IL interface and this device to drive a RS-232 printer > or you could use them to operate a meter with a RS-232 inteface (both > sending and receiving). But you can't use a computer with a RS-232 > interface and this to run HP-IL equipment like a HP 3468 meter. OK, I think I have the picture now. - don From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 10 16:40:12 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991210131258.3cd7bdbe@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, Joe wrote: > Thomas, > > You're in luck. I have tons of software for the 110. What are you > looking for? I'm more interested in the GPIO interface though. What are the requirements/capabilities of the GPIO Interface? - don > Your disk drive is a 9114. The printer is a HP 2225 ThinkJet. I'm VERY > familar with both of them. I've got AT LEAST a dozen of the drives and AT > LEAST two dozen of the printers! > > Joe > From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 10 16:42:52 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:13 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: <41256843.00498627.00@smtp02.seinf.abb.se> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 thomas.h.lindberg@se.abb.com wrote: > > > Don, Joe, > > I might be able to help both of you! > > I believe that I have a manual for the HP-IL RS323 device somewhere, probably > also the device itself. I'll check and revert. > > I also have an old HP 110+, the HP-IL printer that goes (went) with it, a HP-IL > floppy drive (720kb), and a HP-IL GPIO device (General Purpose I/O). > I'm willing to trade the HP-IL RS232 device for (almost) anything for the > HP110+, S/W, firmware, or the memory expansion board. Suggestions, please! > > Thomas > Thomas, for your HP 110+ I have the following software: HEWLETT-PACKARD Name Format Description 100-SYS DSDD HP 100 series (120/125) CP/M 2.2 system disk 100-UTIL DSDD HP 100 series utilities 100-TUT DSDD HP 100 series Computer Tutor 100-WS DSDD HP 100 series Wordstar 3.0 100-WORD DSDD HP 100 series The Word+ 100-COND DSDD HP 100 series Condor 20 dbms 100-VISI DSDD HP 100 series Visicalc 100-GRPH DSDD HP 100 series Graphics 100-DLNK DSDD HP 100 series to host comm programs - don From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 10 19:08:20 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19991210174017.3f3fd068@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991210190820.234fa6c0@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:34 PM 12/10/99 -0800, you wrote: > > >On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, Joe wrote: > >> >I would certainly appreciate a copy of the manual. Seems like I picked >> >up an ISA HP-IL card a while back and the software to drive it, too. >> >> Those are cool but they only run on a slow PC ( <~30 MHz). > >Clock or bus? Clock. I'm not sure what buss speed I've run them at, it's not adjustable in my PC. > >> If >> >I interpret correctly, you are telling me that the HP-IL/RS-232C >> >Interface is a receive only device, or am I misreading you. >> >> You can consider it recieve only but it recieves from either side! Then >> it transmits out the opposite side. > >Gotcha! > >> It can be both a talker and a reciever but it has no controller >> capability. It's used as a translator between HP-IL loop and RS-232 bus. It >> can send data either way but you have to have some sort of a HP-IL capable >> computer to act as the IL loop controller. For example you can use a HP >> calculator with the IL interface and this device to drive a RS-232 printer >> or you could use them to operate a meter with a RS-232 inteface (both >> sending and receiving). But you can't use a computer with a RS-232 >> interface and this to run HP-IL equipment like a HP 3468 meter. > >OK, I think I have the picture now. Good. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 10 19:10:28 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19991210131258.3cd7bdbe@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991210191028.20ff3476@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:40 PM 12/10/99 -0800, Don asked: > > >On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, Joe wrote: > >> Thomas, >> >> You're in luck. I have tons of software for the 110. What are you >> looking for? I'm more interested in the GPIO interface though. > >What are the requirements/capabilities of the GPIO Interface? It does 16 bit parallel I/O. Or you can divide it into 2 8-bit ports. Each port can be defined as Input only, Output only or both In and Out. But remember, I asked for it first! :-) Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 10 19:15:33 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: References: <41256843.00498627.00@smtp02.seinf.abb.se> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991210191533.20ff2ccc@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:42 PM 12/10/99 -0800, Don scribbled: > > >On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 thomas.h.lindberg@se.abb.com wrote: > >> >> >> Don, Joe, >> >> I might be able to help both of you! >> >> I believe that I have a manual for the HP-IL RS323 device somewhere, probably >> also the device itself. I'll check and revert. >> >> I also have an old HP 110+, the HP-IL printer that goes (went) with it, a HP-IL >> floppy drive (720kb), and a HP-IL GPIO device (General Purpose I/O). >> I'm willing to trade the HP-IL RS232 device for (almost) anything for the >> HP110+, S/W, firmware, or the memory expansion board. Suggestions, please! >> >> Thomas >> > >Thomas, for your HP 110+ I have the following software: > > HEWLETT-PACKARD > >Name Format Description >100-SYS DSDD HP 100 series (120/125) CP/M 2.2 system disk >100-UTIL DSDD HP 100 series utilities >100-TUT DSDD HP 100 series Computer Tutor >100-WS DSDD HP 100 series Wordstar 3.0 >100-WORD DSDD HP 100 series The Word+ >100-COND DSDD HP 100 series Condor 20 dbms >100-VISI DSDD HP 100 series Visicalc >100-GRPH DSDD HP 100 series Graphics >100-DLNK DSDD HP 100 series to host comm programs > Carefull there! The 110 won't run CPM. (believe it or not Don!) You need to check those others and see if they're for the 120/125, 150 or 110. They're all 100 series machines but they're all different. SOME of the 150 stuff may run on the 110 but only if it's not tailored for the 150. The 150 is MS-DOS but it's very different from the IBM PC and most (all?) of the HP software that I have for it has been tailored to run on the 150 and can't be used on the 110. Joe From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Dec 10 17:02:26 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: Don Maslin's message of "Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:42:52 -0800 (PST)" References: Message-ID: <199912102302.PAA17200@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Don Maslin wrote: > Thomas, for your HP 110+ I have the following software: [...] > 100-SYS DSDD HP 100 series (120/125) CP/M 2.2 system disk Uh, Don, the 110 and 110+/"Portable Plus" are MS-DOS portables. They're not PC-compatible but/and they don't run CP/M. -Frank McConnell From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 10 16:43:43 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: from "Don Maslin" at Dec 10, 99 12:29:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1717 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991210/07bf623a/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 10 18:42:28 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991210191533.20ff2ccc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, Joe wrote: > At 02:42 PM 12/10/99 -0800, Don scribbled: > > > > > >On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 thomas.h.lindberg@se.abb.com wrote: > > ________O/_______ O\ > >> I'm willing to trade the HP-IL RS232 device for (almost) anything for the > >> HP110+, S/W, firmware, or the memory expansion board. Suggestions, please! > >> > >> Thomas > >> > > > >Thomas, for your HP 110+ I have the following software: > > > > HEWLETT-PACKARD > > > >Name Format Description > >100-SYS DSDD HP 100 series (120/125) CP/M 2.2 system disk > >100-UTIL DSDD HP 100 series utilities ________O/_______ O\ > Carefull there! The 110 won't run CPM. (believe it or not Don!) You > need to check those others and see if they're for the 120/125, 150 or 110. > They're all 100 series machines but they're all different. SOME of the 150 > stuff may run on the 110 but only if it's not tailored for the 150. The > 150 is MS-DOS but it's very different from the IBM PC and most (all?) of > the HP software that I have for it has been tailored to run on the 150 and > can't be used on the 110. Sloppy nomenclature on my part. I know that the 150 won't run it (without MYZ80 or such) but I made an (unwarranted) assumption about the 110. Thanks for the correction. - don From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 10 18:46:35 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: <199912102302.PAA17200@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 10 Dec 1999, Frank McConnell wrote: > Don Maslin wrote: > > Thomas, for your HP 110+ I have the following software: > [...] > > 100-SYS DSDD HP 100 series (120/125) CP/M 2.2 system disk > > Uh, Don, the 110 and 110+/"Portable Plus" are MS-DOS portables. > They're not PC-compatible but/and they don't run CP/M. > > -Frank McConnell > Was that the 'lunch box' package portable? I had forgotten the model number. Thanks! - don From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 10 20:50:43 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.16.19991210191533.20ff2ccc@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991210205043.23476fd2@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:42 PM 12/10/99 -0800, you wrote: > > >On Fri, 10 Dec 1999, Joe wrote: > >> At 02:42 PM 12/10/99 -0800, Don scribbled: >> > >> > >> >On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 thomas.h.lindberg@se.abb.com wrote: >> > >________O/_______ > O\ >> >> I'm willing to trade the HP-IL RS232 device for (almost) anything for the >> >> HP110+, S/W, firmware, or the memory expansion board. Suggestions, please! >> >> >> >> Thomas >> >> >> > >> >Thomas, for your HP 110+ I have the following software: >> > >> > HEWLETT-PACKARD >> > >> >Name Format Description >> >100-SYS DSDD HP 100 series (120/125) CP/M 2.2 system disk >> >100-UTIL DSDD HP 100 series utilities >________O/_______ > O\ >> Carefull there! The 110 won't run CPM. (believe it or not Don!) You >> need to check those others and see if they're for the 120/125, 150 or 110. >> They're all 100 series machines but they're all different. SOME of the 150 >> stuff may run on the 110 but only if it's not tailored for the 150. The >> 150 is MS-DOS but it's very different from the IBM PC and most (all?) of >> the HP software that I have for it has been tailored to run on the 150 and >> can't be used on the 110. > >Sloppy nomenclature on my part. I know that the 150 won't run it >(without MYZ80 or such) but I made an (unwarranted) assumption about >the 110. Thanks for the correction. > > - don It's easy to confuse them since HP calls them all "Series 100". Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 10 20:53:58 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: HP-IL/RS232C Interface In-Reply-To: References: <199912102302.PAA17200@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991210205358.233f0cee@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:46 PM 12/10/99 -0800, you wrote: > > >On 10 Dec 1999, Frank McConnell wrote: > >> Don Maslin wrote: >> > Thomas, for your HP 110+ I have the following software: >> [...] >> > 100-SYS DSDD HP 100 series (120/125) CP/M 2.2 system disk >> >> Uh, Don, the 110 and 110+/"Portable Plus" are MS-DOS portables. >> They're not PC-compatible but/and they don't run CP/M. >> >> -Frank McConnell >> > >Was that the 'lunch box' package portable? I had forgotten the model >number. Thanks! > The HP Integral (aka IPC). Model number 9807, I think. It runs HP-UX. It's a VERY different machine (but a NICE one!). Dammed big lunch box! Closer to the size and weight (25 lbs.) of a small suitcase. Joe From cem14 at cornell.edu Fri Dec 10 22:01:10 1999 From: cem14 at cornell.edu (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) In-Reply-To: <007301bf4202$62588740$0f348ad1@home> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19991210230110.00e4dc50@postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu> At 12:00 AM 12/9/99 -0500, you wrote: > Input Signal > Video Signal : Analog > H Frequency : 68.7 > V Frequency : 75 Hz > Sync Signal : Green, Composite, Separate > > Input Connector > 5 BNC > > Maximum Resolution > Maximum : 1152x870, 75 Hz > Macintosh : 1152x870, 75 Hz > Flicker free : > > User Controls > Analog controls > BR, CT, CV, VE > > Plug and Play Plug and play? what! The a2094 is a very nice fixed frequency monitor for the hp9000-700 series circa 1992-1994. 72 Hz vertical, 1280x1024 NI resolution. Very dark, nice tube. Sync on green. I believe that it has extra sync stuff to do stereo vision effects with the right graphics card. The card in my 735 has a stereo output, but the monitor that I have (A1097C) is nowhere as nice as the A2094. Looks like the person who wrote the data for that web site plugged it into a mac, it sort of worked, and then assumed that those were the original specs. Being sturdy, it probably will sync at 75Hz and survive, but it was designed for 72Hz. From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Dec 10 22:24:37 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Comparison of system specs. - how far have we developed? References: <38514A9F.CF0567AC@mse.ufl.edu> Message-ID: <3851D205.4C3CAE03@idirect.com> >Drew Amery wrote: > I had to reboot my 11/73 RT-11 system yesterday due to a brown out. > While it was booting I starting enter some appointments in my PalmV > and realized that I what I had in my hand had more memory, 2Meg > for the Palm compared to 256K for the DEC, and probably more > processing power. Just for fun, has or would someone compare > the processing powers of the Palm vs the DEC 11/23 thru 93 series. > > Challenge/Joke: > If you really want to impress your fellow pdp users and have absolutely > nothing > to do this holiday season, I challenge someone to port RT-11 to the Palm > handhelds. Jerome Fine replies: Which OS runs on the Palm handhelds? Possibly W95/W98 or even the old DOS/Win 3.1? I will take the challenge in that case. Care to bet how long it will take? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Dec 10 22:30:44 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: It Lives! Message-ID: <19991211043044.963.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> I've finally gotten one of my PDP-8/Ls back on its feet - the solution: remove *all* the cards, hose down the backplane with contact cleaner and clean each and every finger of each and every card. The hit-and-miss stuff just wasn't cutting it, nor was alcohol. I don't know what's in the contact cleaner, but I have a small case of it I aquired from a now-defunct Commodore Dealer here in town (there are *no* ingredients on the label, nor any references to MSDS sheets, so it must be old). As a bonus, I set up a tripod and an 8mm camcorder and took 1 second shots between each card insertion. I now have a 1.75 minute time-lapse movie of the cards popping in, one by one. What I _don't_ have is a way to digitize the movie. :-( When all was done, I fired up the machine and it ran the following program the first time: 0020 7604 LSW / Clear accumulator and OR in the Switch REgister 0021 5020 JMP 0020 / Do it again Core is fine, power fail/restart is fine, all the front panel switches appear to be fine. This machine hasn't worked right for *years*. A good stiff cleaning is all it took. Now, on to TTY tests and eventually, MAINDECs. One gotcha with this box - one of the fuse holders is loose at the back of the PSU. In its untightened state, it produces an open circuit if I move the box around and don't wiggle it back to its groove. I may need to remove most of the cards to remove the PSU to get to the nut. . One down, two to go. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 10 22:40:21 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Comparison of system specs. - how far have we developed? In-Reply-To: <3851D205.4C3CAE03@idirect.com> from "Jerome Fine" at Dec 10, 1999 11:24:37 PM Message-ID: <199912110440.UAA22164@shell1.aracnet.com> > Jerome Fine replies: > > Which OS runs on the Palm handhelds? Possibly W95/W98 or even the > old DOS/Win 3.1? I will take the challenge in that case. Care to bet how > long it will take? I'm afriad not. They run PalmOS. Totally different architecture. Got to admit I'm wondering if it's possible to put a PDP-11 emulator on one of them. The big problem I see is console emulation. Zane From transit at primenet.com Sat Dec 11 06:11:22 1999 From: transit at primenet.com (Charles P. Hobbs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies In-Reply-To: <19991031162221141@ix.netcom.com> Message-ID: You still need those Apple II DOS system disks? I can make them now. . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Charles P. Hobbs __ __ ____ ___ ___ ____ transit@primenet.com /__)/__) / / / / /_ /\ / /_ / / / \ / / / / /__ / \/ /___ / ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On Sun, 31 Oct 1999 rhudson@ix.netcom.com wrote: > Can anyone help me out I have a working apple ][ plus but no floppies with DOS or Prodos on them. > Also no serial port on the machine. > > Whats to do? > > Ron > > rhudson@ix.netcom.com > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 11 09:29:19 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19991210230110.00e4dc50@postoffice3.mail.cornell. edu> References: <007301bf4202$62588740$0f348ad1@home> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991211092919.20f7ed62@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 11:01 PM 12/10/99 -0500, Carlos wrote: >At 12:00 AM 12/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >> Input Signal >> Video Signal : Analog >> H Frequency : 68.7 >> V Frequency : 75 Hz >> Sync Signal : Green, Composite, Separate >> >> Input Connector >> 5 BNC >> >> Maximum Resolution >> Maximum : 1152x870, 75 Hz >> Macintosh : 1152x870, 75 Hz >> Flicker free : >> >> User Controls >> Analog controls >> BR, CT, CV, VE >> >> Plug and Play > >Plug and play? what! Only on the system that it was designed for! This is typical of the hype that manufacturers are spewing! Joe From dogas at leading.net Sat Dec 11 08:35:55 1999 From: dogas at leading.net (Mike) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Fw: Computer for sale (h89 in Michigan) Message-ID: <01bf43e5$085dccc0$1b00000a@devlaptop.cmsjax.com> Forwarded from the Heath list. Contact author directly. Regards - Mike -----Original Message----- From: DonaldF F Christensen To: HEATH@LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 9:00 AM Subject: Computer for sale >Attention Heath Collectors: I have a vintage Heath/Zenith computer set-up >from about 1982.It consists of the following components: H-89 Computer >console(monitor-keyboard- >floppy drive). external H-37 Floppy Drive System, H-25Dot Matrix Printer >and 2 boxes of >documentation. All components are very clean and thought to be in usable >or restorable >condition. This set-up is for pick-up only. Make me an offer. I/m anxious >to get it out of my basement. Don W8WOJ Midland, Michigan > >Sponsored by the City of Tempe > >Listserver Submissions: heath@listserv.tempe.gov >Listserver Subscription: listserv@listserv.tempe.gov - "subscribe heath 'name' 'call'" >Listserver Unsubscribe: listserv@listserv.tempe.gov - -"signoff heath" From cfandt at netsync.net Sat Dec 11 09:07:55 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Fwd: Computer for sale Message-ID: <4.1.19991211100146.00b0d740@206.231.8.2> Anybody out in the Midland, Michigan area, here's a Heath H89 available. Would seem to be a very good complete system for a person who wants one! It's likely CP/M as it's got the soft-sector H37 floppy drive as opposed to HDOS which typically uses the H17 and 10-sector floppies. Contact Don directly of course: >Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1999 08:30:08 -0500 >Reply-To: DonaldF F Christensen >Sender: Heathkit Owners and Collectors List >From: DonaldF F Christensen >Subject: Computer for sale > >Attention Heath Collectors: I have a vintage Heath/Zenith computer set-up >from about 1982.It consists of the following components: H-89 Computer >console(monitor-keyboard- >floppy drive). external H-37 Floppy Drive System, H-25Dot Matrix Printer >and 2 boxes of >documentation. All components are very clean and thought to be in usable >or restorable >condition. This set-up is for pick-up only. Make me an offer. I/m anxious >to get it out of my basement. Don W8WOJ Midland, Michigan > >Sponsored by the City of Tempe > >Listserver Submissions: heath@listserv.tempe.gov >Listserver Subscription: listserv@listserv.tempe.gov - "subscribe heath >'name' 'call'" >Listserver Unsubscribe: listserv@listserv.tempe.gov - -"signoff heath" Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 11 10:05:46 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <000801bf43f1$96180880$0400c0a8@winbook> I seriously doubt that the sync signals have any effect at all on the "stereo" vision effect you may observe when playing some games, etc. In fact, at the risk of saying "bah, humbug" about what's obviously a popular feature, the monitor, as far as I can see, can do little to help what's being displayed on it. Of course, being bright, sharp, well converged and linearized, is always better than not. Using a fixed ffrequency monitor on a PC is always a pain in the *ss. No matter how diligently the vendor of these cards calining to make it work have pursued the features, there's always some sort of problem, be it the mouse, the floppy disk, something is going to screw up. I'd advise anyone contemplating this sort of monitor to get an a/b switch as sold by MEI and countless others and use the BIG monitor for WIndows or whatever they want, and use a $10 vga from the thrift store for everything else. That should do the trick with minimal pain. That way they must have a video card capable of supporting their monitor, but don't have to have a custom BIOS rom on it to support the BIG monitor. IF the card you are considering will support the non-interlaced 1280 by 1024 at the vertical rate, or close to it, for which the monitor was designed, you should consider yourself lucky. These won't be cheap, because the video DAC has to be very fast, (run the numbers!) to cough up pixels in 64k colors at 1.12x the product of the horizontal rate and the number of pixels. That $160 card which was mentioned yesterday on this thread was capable, but $160 is not an ordinary price! Dick -----Original Message----- From: Carlos Murillo To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 10, 1999 9:09 PM Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) >At 12:00 AM 12/9/99 -0500, you wrote: >> Input Signal >> Video Signal : Analog >> H Frequency : 68.7 >> V Frequency : 75 Hz >> Sync Signal : Green, Composite, Separate >> >> Input Connector >> 5 BNC >> >> Maximum Resolution >> Maximum : 1152x870, 75 Hz >> Macintosh : 1152x870, 75 Hz >> Flicker free : >> >> User Controls >> Analog controls >> BR, CT, CV, VE >> >> Plug and Play > >Plug and play? what! > > >The a2094 is a very nice fixed frequency monitor for the hp9000-700 series >circa 1992-1994. 72 Hz vertical, 1280x1024 NI resolution. Very dark, nice >tube. Sync on green. I believe that it has extra sync stuff to do >stereo vision effects with the right graphics card. The card in my 735 >has a stereo output, but the monitor that I have (A1097C) is nowhere >as nice as the A2094. > >Looks like the person who wrote the data for that web site plugged >it into a mac, it sort of worked, and then assumed that those were the >original specs. Being sturdy, it probably will sync at 75Hz >and survive, but it was designed for 72Hz. > > > From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 11 09:18:23 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (Daniel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Just received the first of the PDP-8As Message-ID: <000d01bf43ea$f7163820$3624d1d8@default> Just came in last night: PDP-8A500 with: M8315 \ M8317 > CPU, clock, serial, parallel M8316 / H219B - 16K core M8365 - printer M7104 \ M7105 > RK8E RK05 Disk Interface M7106 / Also got two RK05 drives with the M993 RK05 cable. I got a disk pack filled with diagnostics for all the Dec devices and Dec x/8. Pretty cool. It looks to be in running condition. A few 8Es and another 8A coming in this week. Next weekend a UFO will be dropping off 50+ PDP8s and PDP11s. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Dec 11 11:22:50 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Fwd: Computer for sale In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991211100146.00b0d740@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991211122250.0097e2d0@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that Christian Fandt may have mentioned these words: >Anybody out in the Midland, Michigan area, here's a Heath H89 available. >Would seem to be a very good complete system for a person who wants one! >It's likely CP/M as it's got the soft-sector H37 floppy drive as opposed to >HDOS which typically uses the H17 and 10-sector floppies. Contact Don >directly of course: I think (I'll have to see if it's in my email archives) I have contacted that person before re: this system, but at the time he wanted quite a bit for it... I'm going to be 25 miles away from there (Mt. Pleasant) this weekend, but I'm leaving in a few hours for there... not sure if I'll be able to contact him again or not... Good news: I'll have my truck with me. :-) Bad news: because my wife wrecked our van. :-( I'll let y'all know if I can swing it... Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Dec 11 11:31:12 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: (Tano Dragon) In-Reply-To: <199912102134.WAA27188@mail2.siemens.de> References: <3.0.1.32.19991209182032.009b3240@127.0.0.1> <991209175110.21e00659@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991211123112.009ce980@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that Hans Franke may have mentioned these words: > >> $ 35 Tano Dragon Process Control Computer Kit > >> Actually, a copy of the Radio Shack Color >> Computer, completely packaged in a >> consumer case. Computer includes: >> motherboard, keyboard, memory, power >> supply and case. This 6809 based computer >> is called the Tano Dragon. > >So, does this include only the bords, or some case, and what case ? >They show a keyboard and some PCB in the upper photograpy, and an >Dragon32 in the lower. Well, it says it includes a case... which case, whether it's complete or not I cannot speak for them, of course. Per their webpage, for more info contact: catalog@cadigital.com. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Dec 11 11:32:48 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: <19991210184750.23146.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991211123248.00956270@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that Eric Smith may have mentioned these words: >>> Still a reliable surplus vendor, incidentally: >>> http://www.cadigital.com/ >>> Perhaps the best-known NOS selection of 8" floppy drives anywhere in the >>> world, as well as 8" media and cleaning kits. >> Some of the prices don't look like they have been updated in a decade >> though, 2 MB ram simms for $59 etc. > >With most surplus vendors, I've had very good luck with bargaining >on items having obviously outdated posted prices. But make a reasonable >offer, not a really lowball one, or they'll not bother to talk to you. Or a quantity offer... If you buy 3 at a reasonable offer instead of just 1, they're much more willing to take the deal. Maybe if anyone wants a Dragon we should coordinate it here first, then just make a bulk purchase?!?!? Just an idea, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 11 10:30:09 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Weirdest RK05 problem I have *ever* seen. Message-ID: <000c01bf43f4$fe592700$062ad1d8@default> I have not even begun to look at the drive yet but I thought I would float the problem here in case someone has actually had something happen as weird as this. PROBLEM: Both drives don't work.. only "Write Protect". Is you tip either drive on it's left side they work fine, (blower starts up, lights, everything..). [not the right side] Looks to be PSU problem but I have not popped the top yet. In all the years I have worked on RK05s I have never seen this! john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Dec 11 11:55:29 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Comparison of system specs. - how far have we developed? In-Reply-To: <199912110440.UAA22164@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <3851D205.4C3CAE03@idirect.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991211125529.009f83f0@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that healyzh@aracnet.com may have mentioned these words: >> Jerome Fine replies: >> >> Which OS runs on the Palm handhelds? Possibly W95/W98 or even the >> old DOS/Win 3.1? I will take the challenge in that case. Care to bet how >> long it will take? > >I'm afriad not. They run PalmOS. Totally different architecture. Got to >admit I'm wondering if it's possible to put a PDP-11 emulator on one of >them. The big problem I see is console emulation. On a similar vein, I think it would be cool to see an Atari ST emulator on the Palm... the screen sizes are pretty close, there's enough memory (on a palm III) for a 1Meg ST emulator, it uses the same processor, so it shouldn't run *too* slowly... but hooking up that floppy drive would be a bit tough, I'll admit... ;-) Just an idea, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Dec 11 12:31:06 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies Message-ID: <19991211183106.17040.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Charles P. Hobbs" wrote: > > You still need those Apple II DOS system disks? I can make them now. . . I'm not the original requester, but I have several Apple II systems and no *original* system floppies, just a couple of boxes of bootable stuff from the place I used to write kiddie games at (c. 1984). Given that I do kinda have a working system, is there a way to send Apple II disk images like you can with a Mac? Back in the bad old days, we used to transfer stuff to/from the Apple with a faux-serial cable out of the game port (bit banged TTL to the bit banged TTL port on a C-64, to be precise). I do have an Apple IIc+ that has both 5.25" and 3.5" diskettes, if that helps. Thanks, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 11 13:08:39 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Comparison of system specs. - how far have we developed? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991211125529.009f83f0@127.0.0.1> References: <199912110440.UAA22164@shell1.aracnet.com> <3851D205.4C3CAE03@idirect.com> Message-ID: Roger "Merch" Merchberger wrote: >Rumor has it that healyzh@aracnet.com may have mentioned these words: >>> Jerome Fine replies: >>> >>> Which OS runs on the Palm handhelds? Possibly W95/W98 or even the >>> old DOS/Win 3.1? I will take the challenge in that case. Care to bet how >>> long it will take? >> >>I'm afriad not. They run PalmOS. Totally different architecture. Got to >>admit I'm wondering if it's possible to put a PDP-11 emulator on one of >>them. The big problem I see is console emulation. > >On a similar vein, I think it would be cool to see an Atari ST emulator on >the Palm... the screen sizes are pretty close, there's enough memory (on a >palm III) for a 1Meg ST emulator, it uses the same processor, so it >shouldn't run *too* slowly... but hooking up that floppy drive would be a >bit tough, I'll admit... ;-) Are you sure the processor is the same? I didn't even think it had a Motorola processor. If it is based on the 68k I suspect you might find it's missing some of the instructions. I know I've seen talk in Amiga circles about the latest 68k chips not having all the instructions necessary to use them in a Amiga clone. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 11 13:24:28 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Comparison of system specs. - how far have we developed? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19991211125529.009f83f0@127.0.0.1> <199912110440.UAA22164@shell1.aracnet.com> <3851D205.4C3CAE03@idirect.com> Message-ID: >Are you sure the processor is the same? I didn't even think it had a >Motorola processor. If it is based on the 68k I suspect you might find >it's missing some of the instructions. I know I've seen talk in Amiga >circles about the latest 68k chips not having all the instructions >necessary to use them in a Amiga clone. > > Zane Guess I might as well correct myself. The processor is a Motorola Dragonball. However, as mentioned, I don't think the instruction set is quite the same. Don't know though. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 11 13:26:58 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Scary!!! (warning eBay related) Message-ID: I just got a copy of eBay Magazine in the mail today. What a scary thing to have a magazine on. Of course now I'm starting to wonder what kind of list I'm on, that's the second magazine I've gotten in the last couple weeks that I've no idea why I got it. What's really scary is they've got 2-3 pages that are a 'barometer' of how stuff on eBay is doing. The good news is that as far as I can tell, classic computers aren't listed. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Dec 11 13:21:40 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991211092919.20f7ed62@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: <3.0.2.32.19991210230110.00e4dc50@postoffice3.mail.cornell. edu> <007301bf4202$62588740$0f348ad1@home> Message-ID: >>> Plug and Play >> >>Plug and play? what! > > Only on the system that it was designed for! This is typical of the >hype that manufacturers are spewing! > > Joe This is a mac oriented site, and on a mac its plug and play. "Plug and Play" means something else on a PC. ;) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Dec 11 13:37:19 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Comparison of system specs. - how far have we developed? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991211125529.009f83f0@127.0.0.1> References: <199912110440.UAA22164@shell1.aracnet.com> <3851D205.4C3CAE03@idirect.com> Message-ID: >On a similar vein, I think it would be cool to see an Atari ST emulator on >the Palm... the screen sizes are pretty close, there's enough memory (on a >palm III) for a 1Meg ST emulator, it uses the same processor, so it >shouldn't run *too* slowly... but hooking up that floppy drive would be a >bit tough, I'll admit... ;-) Maybe you could run the floppy via the IR or serial links? I just bought my wife a Palm IIIx, but haven't been allowed to touch it yet. My soldering iron is ready though. ;) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Dec 11 13:44:49 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies In-Reply-To: <19991211183106.17040.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >Given that I do kinda have a working system, is there a way to send Apple II >disk images like you can with a Mac? Back in the bad old days, we used to >transfer stuff to/from the Apple with a faux-serial cable out of the game >port (bit banged TTL to the bit banged TTL port on a C-64, to be precise). Look at the stuff on the Apple II emulation web sites, they run down the full treatment to shk (shrink) disc images, and most of the "nettable" file formats etc. This is one of those real doable things, that I want to do, but haven't done yet. I plan to use a trio of Apples for my stuff, a IIe card in a LC, a IIgs, and a IIc+. The first two via Appletalk to a Appleshare 3.0.4 server. Many authors such as yourself have been making updates and releasing their older software to the public. You might want to think about that too. The Apple II is still a good machine for the younger kids and the more software the better. From zmerch at 30below.com Sat Dec 11 14:15:27 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Comparison of system specs. - how far have we developed? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19991211125529.009f83f0@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991211151527.0099f2c0@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that Zane H. Healy may have mentioned these words: >>Are you sure the processor is the same? I didn't even think it had a >>Motorola processor. If it is based on the 68k I suspect you might find >>it's missing some of the instructions. I know I've seen talk in Amiga >>circles about the latest 68k chips not having all the instructions >>necessary to use them in a Amiga clone. >> >> Zane > >Guess I might as well correct myself. The processor is a Motorola >Dragonball. However, as mentioned, I don't think the instruction set is >quite the same. Don't know though. Well, it's *supposed* to be the same instruction set... but what (if any) definition of "supposed" Motorola has is anybody's guess... I can tell you that the 68k cross-compiler you use to create palm proggies (.prc files) under Linux is stock... no changes required. _Sounds_ pretty compatible to me, but of course YMMV. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger P.S. If I had: 1) a fair-to-decent assembler/editor for an Atari ST, 2) the .prc file header/footer format, & 3) any fair 68k assembly starter docs, I could test some things out... -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From spc at armigeron.com Sat Dec 11 14:50:48 1999 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Comparison of system specs. - how far have we developed? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 11, 99 11:08:39 am Message-ID: <199912112050.PAA04346@armigeron.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1401 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991211/096e5f16/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Dec 11 15:24:12 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies Message-ID: <19991211212412.11566.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > Look at the stuff on the Apple II emulation web sites, they run down the > full treatment to shk (shrink) disc images... Cool. That's the kind of pointer I needed. > I plan to use a trio of Apples for my stuff, a IIe card in a LC, a IIgs, > and a IIc+. The first two via Appletalk to a Appleshare 3.0.4 server. Appletalk for the IIgs? I didn't know. Was there ever Appletalk for older machines (it would have to be under ProDOS, of course)? > Many authors such as yourself have been making updates and releasing their > older software to the public. You might want to think about that too. The > Apple II is still a good machine for the younger kids and the more software > the better. I was only one of the independent authors. There were others who worked on the projects, too. It was a one-man show with a room full of 1099 independent contractors banging away on stuff for the Apple II, BBS Micro, C-64 and, eventually, the PC (we even had PCjr stuff for a short while). The company was "Software Productions"; we sold our stuff under the Reader's Digest name - "Micro Mother Goose", "Micro Habitats" and "Alphabet Beasts and Company" were our best selling titles. We supported mice when mice were rare. I still have our original Apple II mouse card - $250 MSRP in 1984, replacement mice - $35 each. These were the identical kind used with the original 128K Mac. If I ever run across my old boss, I'll ask if he is willing to release our old stuff. I don't anticipate a problem, but I need to ask first. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sat Dec 11 15:31:57 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies In-Reply-To: <19991211212412.11566.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 11, 1999 01:24:12 PM Message-ID: <199912112131.OAA15396@calico.litterbox.com> > Appletalk for the IIgs? I didn't know. Was there ever Appletalk for older > machines (it would have to be under ProDOS, of course)? Yup. AppleIIGS had appletalk built in. I've used it to print. It's slow but it works. There were also appletalk cards for the 2e's. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Dec 11 15:43:42 1999 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Now I'm really subscribed! Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991211164342.007b3470@mail.wincom.net> Friday evening I tried to send a message to CLASSICCMP, and was informed that since I was not a subscriber, I couldn't. Now I subscribed back before the first VCF, so it must have been over two years ago. After several exchanges with "listproc@u.washington.edu," I was informed that I was subscribed, and am now getting TWO of each message. Not wanting to tackle that automated system again, I am sending this message in hope that a human being can straighten things out. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo From van at wired.com Sat Dec 11 15:56:06 1999 From: van at wired.com (van burnham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: PDP-10 Message-ID: Hello. Does anyone have access to a working PDP-10 and a copy of ADVENT? I need to get an image of the program running on the system. Please email privately... xoxo van van burnham +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ van@wired.com +++ senior production manager +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ wired magazine ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 520 third street third floor san francisco california 94107 415.276.4979 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 11 15:23:40 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Two PDP-8A questions Message-ID: <000c01bf441d$fed0cb60$bf20d1d8@default> I hope someone can answer these questions... Where does the 16 pin front panel connector plug into the main options board and which way? (There are two sockets on the Options board) Where does the main serial line plug into (which port on which board)? john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: Jim Strickland To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 4:32 PM Subject: Re: Apple ][ + but no Floppies >> Appletalk for the IIgs? I didn't know. Was there ever Appletalk for older >> machines (it would have to be under ProDOS, of course)? > >Yup. AppleIIGS had appletalk built in. I've used it to print. It's slow >but it works. There were also appletalk cards for the 2e's. > > > >-- >Jim Strickland >jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Dec 11 16:40:17 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Two PDP-8A questions Message-ID: <19991211224017.26257.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> --- John B wrote: > I hope someone can answer these questions... > > Where does the 16 pin front panel connector plug into the main options board > and which way? (There are two sockets on the Options board) It doesn't. It plugs into a 16-pin header/ribbon cable that comes from the backplane. The two empty sockets are for user boot roms. > Where does the main serial line plug into (which port on which board)? The DKC8AA (I don't have the handle number here) - it has two Berg connectors facing front (for the full front panel) and three facing backwards - the one closest to the edge fingers is the serial connector. The other two, for the sake of completeness, are 12-bits in and out. The output port can be used to drive an LA-180, but the data is inverted from normal and the IOTs are not the same. With a recompiled driver, however, you could drive a parallel printer with it. Do you need a copy of the 1977-1978 microcomputer handbook? I have a spare. Let's talk. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Dec 11 16:43:10 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: OMNIBUS LA-180 interface Message-ID: <19991211224310.2384.qmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> I finally dug out my OMNIBUS LA-180 interface card - M8365, pcb p/n 5011818B. I don't know much about it except that I used a 40-pin cable straight to the parallel input connector on the LA-180, and that whateve IOTs it uses must be the "standard" line printer ones because it took no fiddling with. I plugged it in and OS/8 was happy with it. No muss, no fuss. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Dec 11 16:50:30 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: M865/M833 questions (and serial cable info) Message-ID: <19991211225030.27128.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> In re-reading the PDP08 FAQs, I came across a mention that the older KK8E cards (three digit handle numbers) are somehow "broken". Can anyone elaborate? I have a couple of KK8E sets, one with the M833 timing module and M865 20mA- only TTY interface. What might be odd about them? I need to be able to use the M865 as I only have one M8650 KL8J interface (with two cables - one EIA and one 20mA, but the 20mA cable is missing the Berg housing - it's a bundle of loose connector pins on the interface end). Speaking of cables, I was attempting to build a new cable for my PDP-8/a and re-discovered a minor detail - the DKC8AA has this interesting feature - the EIA input and the TTL input to the serial hardware are not connected at the board level. There is this loopback wire that must be installed on the Berg connector to get the input data into the hardware. I remembered this after much frustration from the days when I used to get discarded cables from my former employer who made sync serial hardware. We shipped a nearly-fully- compatible cable with each and every one of our boards. All I need to do to convert these to PDP-8/a use is to add that jumper wire. If anyone is in need of a Berg-to-DB25 cable, let me know. I have a box of them that can be converted to PDP-8 use (for a nominal fee, of course ;-) -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Dec 11 16:58:46 1999 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: PDP-10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13506696309.19.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Working PDP-10?] Send mail to ALDERSON@toad.xkl.com. This machine is a PDP-10 clone by XKL, running TOPS-20. ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Sat Dec 11 17:01:36 1999 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Okay, I'm an idiot. ^_^ Message-ID: <13506696824.19.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Yeah, I still manage to confuse myself with MM. ^_^ Sorry. ------- From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 11 16:05:48 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Two PDP-8A questions Message-ID: <003101bf4423$e19efb60$bf20d1d8@default> -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 5:40 PM Subject: Re: Two PDP-8A questions > > >--- John B wrote: >> I hope someone can answer these questions... >> >> Where does the 16 pin front panel connector plug into the main options board >> and which way? (There are two sockets on the Options board) > >It doesn't. It plugs into a 16-pin header/ribbon cable that comes from the >backplane. The two empty sockets are for user boot roms. > Thank you. I don't get books on all these systems until next weekend. >> Where does the main serial line plug into (which port on which board)? > >The DKC8AA (I don't have the handle number here) - it has two Berg connectors >facing front (for the full front panel) and three facing backwards - the >one closest to the edge fingers is the serial connector. The other two, >for the sake of completeness, are 12-bits in and out. The output port can >be used to drive an LA-180, but the data is inverted from normal and the IOTs >are not the same. With a recompiled driver, however, you could drive a >parallel printer with it. > Okay thanks.. I will work on the RK05s now.. they both have a bad -15V supply...but bioth work fine when tipped on their left hand side. >Do you need a copy of the 1977-1978 microcomputer handbook? I have a spare. >Let's talk. > >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd@iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 11 19:19:18 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: DEC core question Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991211191918.3f6f33d6@mailhost.intellistar.net> OK all you DECheads, here's a question for you. I have a DEC core memory board that says H213 on the handle. A stick on label on the back says "4K x16" but etched into the board it says "16k x 19 bits". Why the difference? (I know about parity so forget the extra three bits.) Joe From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Dec 11 17:27:07 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: DEC core question Message-ID: <19991211232707.824.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > OK all you DECheads, here's a question for you. I have a DEC core memory > board that says H213 on the handle. A stick on label on the back says "4K > x16" but etched into the board it says "16k x 19 bits". Why the > difference? (I know about parity so forget the extra three bits.) Can you see the core mats or is there an opaque cover? I have some stuff that may be the same thing you have (from an 11/05). Mine is marked similarly, but three of the mats are blank. I suspect that the same PCB could be used in several machines, including an 18-bit machine w/parity, depending on how many mats were wired. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 11 17:28:47 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Motorola 68k family ( was Re: Comparison of system specs. ) In-Reply-To: <199912112050.PAA04346@armigeron.com> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 11, 99 11:08:39 am Message-ID: > I find that very odd as usually each suceeding generation of CPU typically >includes more instructions (or more addressing modes). It may be that the >latest 68k CPUs have timing differences that make running certain Amiga >software problematic. Do you have any more information on this? > > -spc (Have Amiga will program) Unfortunatly I don't remember where I read that for sure, and I'm not 100% sure it's the Dragonball, but the Dragonball sounds like the right follow on processor. I think I read it in the TEAM Amiga Mailing list, in one of Dave Haynie's posts, but like I said, I don't remember. However, I think even some of the 68040 and 68060 series chips don't have all the instructions of earlier processors. We got any 68k pro's around here? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Dec 11 17:30:19 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: Two PDP-8A questions Message-ID: <19991211233019.10671.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> --- John B wrote: > Okay thanks.. I will work on the RK05s now.. they both have a bad -15V > supply...but bioth work fine when tipped on their left hand side. I saw that posting. How odd. I have a similar problem with one of my PDP-8/Ls. A retaining nut is loose on one of the three fuse holders. IIRC, the RK05 has an external circuit breaker, but no exernally mounted individual fuses like the power supplies from the late 1960s. I'd suppose your problem is some kind of loose component or connection, but I couldn't suggest where to look. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Dec 11 19:50:12 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:14 2005 Subject: DEC core question In-Reply-To: <19991211232707.824.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991211195012.3f6f7a50@mailhost.intellistar.net> Ethan, The covers are clear and the mats are full. I have two carrds, both are the same way. These are out of a 11/05. Joe At 03:27 PM 12/11/99 -0800, you wrote: > > >--- Joe wrote: >> OK all you DECheads, here's a question for you. I have a DEC core memory >> board that says H213 on the handle. A stick on label on the back says "4K >> x16" but etched into the board it says "16k x 19 bits". Why the >> difference? (I know about parity so forget the extra three bits.) > >Can you see the core mats or is there an opaque cover? I have some stuff >that may be the same thing you have (from an 11/05). Mine is marked >similarly, but three of the mats are blank. > >I suspect that the same PCB could be used in several machines, including >an 18-bit machine w/parity, depending on how many mats were wired. > >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd@iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Dec 11 17:55:01 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Motorola 68k family ( was Re: Comparison of system specs. ) Message-ID: <19991211235501.7165.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > Unfortunatly I don't remember where I read that for sure, and I'm not 100% > sure it's the Dragonball, but the Dragonball sounds like the right follow > on processor. I recall the same thing. > I think I read it in the TEAM Amiga Mailing list, in one of > Dave Haynie's posts, but like I said, I don't remember. I did see Dave Haynie mention that there were some fundamental differences in the Dragonball that caused binary-level compatibility problems, but I don't recall the specifics, either. > However, I think even some of the 68040 and 68060 series chips don't have > all the instructions of earlier processors. We got any 68k pro's around > here? For all practical purposes, the differences with the 68000 and the '40 (and higher) are more related to priv'ed instructions, not missing instructions. There may be some missing ones, but they are not ones that were well used (BCD packing and unpacking instructions come to mind, but I'm not 100% sure of that). Cache and timing issues for instruction-set-dependeng loops are much more of a problem. Because the 68K family didn't change as massively as the Intel x86 family, programmers tended to use cycle-counting loops more often than they should. Who here remembers the first generation of VGA games that didn't run right on the 486 because the loops were running too fast? DOS programmers learned their lesson years ago when poorly-written software broke with every new hardware design. Such things came more slowly to the Motorola world. The first compatibility problem came with the 68010 and the MOVEcc instruction. It's unpriv'ed on the 68000, and priv'ed on the 68010 and up. AmigaDOS provides a call to extract the relevant condition bits that one is supposed to use. The practical solution was to install an exception trap to handle when some errant programmer used the forbidden instruction and emulate the real thing. It's much, much slower, but it's the kind of thing that doesn't get executed in a loop, so wall-time execution speed is essentially unaffected. For the trivial-minded, the AmigaDOS calculator that came with AmigaDOS 1.1 uses the offending instruction and makes a good test that the exception handler is installed. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 11 16:51:27 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19991210230110.00e4dc50@postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu> from "Carlos Murillo" at Dec 10, 99 11:01:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 587 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991211/afafe6a4/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 11 16:57:24 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: It Lives! In-Reply-To: <19991211043044.963.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 10, 99 08:30:44 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1898 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991211/f9c80536/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 11 17:01:36 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Weirdest RK05 problem I have *ever* seen. In-Reply-To: <000c01bf43f4$fe592700$062ad1d8@default> from "John B" at Dec 11, 99 11:30:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 440 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991211/ad377e21/attachment.ksh From ndiablo at diablonet.net Sat Dec 11 19:31:24 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Motorola 68k family ( was Re: Comparison of system specs. ) Message-ID: <19991212013124.17021.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Well, I can't say much from the Amiga side, but after playing around with Macs for a number of years, I don't think there were really any instances where instructions were _removed_ that broke software... I do remember there were a few specific issues when features were _added_ and a lot of software broke, like when the 68020 macs were introduced with onboard caches that broke some software that used self-modifying code, and when the 68040 was introduced with its onboard caches, I think it ended up breaking some software as well. This is all mac-related stuff, though, so I don't know if there were ever any similar issues over on the Amiga side. -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From chris at mainecoon.com Sat Dec 11 18:38:53 1999 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Motorola 68k family ( was Re: Comparison of system specs. ) References: <19991212013124.17021.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Message-ID: <3852EE9D.B24548E5@mainecoon.com> ndiablo@diablonet.net wrote: > Well, I can't say much from the Amiga side, but after playing around with > Macs for a number of years, I don't think there were really any instances > where instructions were _removed_ that broke software... I do remember > there were a few specific issues when features were _added_ and a lot of > software broke, like when the 68020 macs were introduced with onboard > caches that broke some software that used self-modifying code, and when > the 68040 was introduced with its onboard caches, I think it ended up > breaking some software as well. This is all mac-related stuff, though, > so I don't know if there were ever any similar issues over on the Amiga > side. We had the same cache problems when we first shipped the Hurricane boards for the A1000; our workaround (such as it was) was simply to provide a program that disabled the '020 cache... Cheers, Chris -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From ndiablo at diablonet.net Sat Dec 11 19:47:50 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: KDA50 cableset Message-ID: <19991212014750.17097.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Hi! Just out of curiousity, does anybody have a spare cable set for a KDA50 they might be interested in getting rid of? :) Willing to pay reasonable unit cost plus all shipping and handling charges. Thanks! -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From ndiablo at diablonet.net Sat Dec 11 19:49:06 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: KDA50 cableset... sorry! :) Message-ID: <19991212014906.17104.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Sorry about my omission from the previous message; I meant the card-to-drive cabling, not the card-to-card cabling. Thanks! -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Dec 11 18:54:51 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Any PDP-11s available? (Was - Re: Just received the first of the PDP-8As) References: <000d01bf43ea$f7163820$3624d1d8@default> Message-ID: <3852F25A.67316A0C@idirect.com> >Daniel wrote: > A few 8Es and another 8A coming in this week. Next weekend a UFO will be > dropping off 50+ PDP8s and PDP11s. Jerome Fine replies: Will you be keeping all the PDP-11 systems? While I may need a divorce if I bring in any more, some might just entice me. I am in Toronto and would consider local pickup. I just received 2 PRO350 systems and I would like to set up a hard drive, but I can't seem to either set the jumpers correctly on an RD51 or it needs a FORMAT command which produces an error. The system will boot RT-11 from the RX50 floppy and I can do a: "DUMP/TERM DW0:" on an RD51 which has DS1,DS2,DS3 all IN the circuit for an RD51 which has P/OS on the drive and I don't want to loose that drive with P/OS just in case I am curious in the future. When I configure the "DIP" pack (the black plastic with pins that are cut to set up the DS settings and the other jumpers - the one beside the terminating resistors) on a spare RD51 that I have, I can neither do the DUMP nor do a FORMAT - which I thought that a PRO350 was allowed to do. The DW0: drive is installed and loaded, I just get an "Input error" message for the DUMP and a different error for the FORMAT - I think it was something like "Bad device". I should have marked it down. Incidentally, the RD51 drive light never goes off on the PRO350. Is that correct? Any suggestions? Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sat Dec 11 17:56:42 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Weirdest RK05 problem I have *ever* seen. Message-ID: <004801bf4433$5f85fa60$bf20d1d8@default> -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 6:57 PM Subject: Re: Weirdest RK05 problem I have *ever* seen. >> >> I have not even begun to look at the drive yet but I thought I would float >> the problem here in case someone has actually had something happen as weird >> as this. >> >> PROBLEM: Both drives don't work.. only "Write Protect". Is you tip either >> drive on it's left side they work fine, (blower starts up, lights, >> everything..). [not the right side] > >Are you saying that tipping one drive on its side makes _both_ of them >come up? > No.. even weirder.... Take any one drive (they are not connected together)..and plug it in. The 5V supply works (Write Protect).. nothing else happens. Flip EITHER drive on it's left side and it happily comes up! I can't believe both drives have the same problem. Also, both drives have a bad -15V when mounted.. flip it on its side and away it goes... >>From what I rememberm the blower is controlled by a relay on the relay >board on top of the PSU chassis (rear left of the drive). The other relay >controls the spindle motor. The blower relay is controlled by either ACLO >or DCLO (I forget which), which, of course, is bussed between the drives. >I'd start there -- sounds like something is pulling that line active, and >turning off the relay. > Yes.. the control logic won't let anything come on unless all three supplies are functioning right.. -15V is the problem. >> >> Looks to be PSU problem but I have not popped the top yet. > >Possibly, although WrtProt working implies the PSU is doing something. Yes +5V is okay on both. > >> >> In all the years I have worked on RK05s I have never seen this! > >Ditto... > I have 13 right now but 11 are 2 hours away.... so I have to get these running quickly to test the 8A.. (it seems to be running). >Do you have the prints? I'd certainly start by looking at that relay >board (take care -- live mains!!!) and the signals that control it. > Yes.. but again far away - storage (my home is filled with older PDP-8 stuff right now).. I went on highgate and had a look. It will be nice to have a print set for everything next weekend (no more travelling). john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com >-tony > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 11 18:20:17 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Two PDP-8A questions In-Reply-To: <003101bf4423$e19efb60$bf20d1d8@default> from "John B" at Dec 11, 99 05:05:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 481 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991212/f679ccb8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 11 18:03:20 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: M865/M833 questions (and serial cable info) In-Reply-To: <19991211225030.27128.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 11, 99 02:50:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 686 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991212/e4e5b488/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Dec 11 18:51:25 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: PDP-10 In-Reply-To: (message from van burnham on Sat, 11 Dec 1999 13:56:06 -0800) References: Message-ID: <19991212005125.30457.qmail@brouhaha.com> Van Burnham wrote: > Does anyone have access to a working PDP-10 and a copy of ADVENT? I need to > get an image of the program running on the system. What exactly do you mean by "an image of the program running on the system"? Do you really mean a photograph? And if so, what do you really expect to see in the photograph? The PDP-10? That wouldn't look any different running ADVENT than running any other program. Or do you want a photograph of the terminal on which a user is playing ADVENT? That would look just like ADVENT running on any other kind of computer. Anyhow, if what you want is a photograph of a user sitting at an LA36 DECwriter II playing ADVENT, just like I did in the old days, I can certainly get you a photo of that. What's at the other end of the serial line won't actually be a PDP-10, though. Even though I'm part owner of a KL10 and full owner of a KS10, neither one is currently operational, and I don't know of any that are. Eric From chris at mainecoon.com Sat Dec 11 19:50:43 1999 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Nova Rescue/Prime 2550 Message-ID: <3852FF73.5E6DC60E@mainecoon.com> I'm pleased to report that thanks to the efforts of Marvin, three DG Nova fours, two expansion chassis, three disks (including two DG SMD drives) and three tape drives were saved from heading to scrapsville. Details (and a few photos) can be found at http://www.mainecoon.com/rescue.html. There's also a bit about the Pr1me 2550 I purchased from John as well... :-) best, Chris -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 11 19:43:10 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Weirdest RK05 problem I have *ever* seen. In-Reply-To: <004801bf4433$5f85fa60$bf20d1d8@default> from "John B" at Dec 11, 99 06:56:42 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2264 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991212/8b1c7157/attachment.ksh From musicman38 at mindspring.com Sat Dec 11 21:36:51 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <001001bf4452$22959a60$3b948ad1@home> I have come to the conclusion that its to costly to use the HP A2094 monitor on my PC, I can purchase a nice 17 inch Monitor at about the same cost to get a special video card which will never be fully compatible with all my applications. However I just realized that this monitor was possibly intended for the HP Apollo 400 workstation that I got at the same warehouse. Can anybody verify this ? Also there was several HP 20 inch mono monitors ready to be tossed in the dumpster, I thought these were Composite video inout because they had one BNC connector on them, but likely some sort of fixed Frequency input.. Phil.. From ndiablo at diablonet.net Sat Dec 11 23:18:51 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <19991212051851.17864.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> I could almost tell you for sure that the monitor was indeed designed for use with the Apollo workstations that you're mentioning... or if not that, perhaps some that came later in the line. :) -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Dec 11 21:25:18 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies In-Reply-To: <19991211212412.11566.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >> I plan to use a trio of Apples for my stuff, a IIe card in a LC, a IIgs, >> and a IIc+. The first two via Appletalk to a Appleshare 3.0.4 server. > >Appletalk for the IIgs? I didn't know. Was there ever Appletalk for older >machines (it would have to be under ProDOS, of course)? LocalTalk (AppleTalk) even works on a plain II with a workstation card, the IIgs and LC have mac serial ports which automatically work, and some trick will make a IIc+ work I have been told. >We supported mice when mice were rare. I still have our original Apple II >mouse card - $250 MSRP in 1984, replacement mice - $35 each. These were the >identical kind used with the original 128K Mac. Is that mouse the same as with the Mac Plus? The IIgs uses an ADB mouse. From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 11 22:43:05 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Tripos on the PDP-11 Message-ID: I was just looking up some info in the PDP-11 FAQ, and glancing through the list of OS's, I noticed Tripos. Does anyone have any information on what models it ran on? Based on the Tripos webpage, such as it is, it looks like the OS is freely distributable for private and academic purposes. http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/mr/Tripos.html Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 11 23:00:09 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <001c01bf445d$c4baffa0$0400c0a8@winbook> You can verify this yourself by visiting the HP web site. HP bought APOLLO in '88-'89 or thereabouts. Those HP workstations that have been selling around here for about $25 work with a similar monitor though I'm not certain whether it's exactly the same number. The fellow who's got them gets $25 per workstation/server and $25 per monitor. I think he's sold only one of these monitors (to me) this past year. $5 would better reflect their relative usefulness. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Phil Clayton To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 8:33 PM Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) >I have come to the conclusion that its to costly to use the HP A2094 monitor >on my PC, I can purchase a nice 17 inch Monitor at about the same cost to >get a special video card which will never be fully compatible with all my >applications. > >However I just realized that this monitor was possibly intended for the HP >Apollo 400 workstation that I got at the same warehouse. > >Can anybody verify this ? > >Also there was several HP 20 inch mono monitors ready to be tossed in the >dumpster, I thought these were Composite video inout because they had one >BNC connector on them, but likely some sort of fixed Frequency input.. > >Phil.. > > > From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 11 23:02:24 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <002501bf445e$1482e340$0400c0a8@winbook> One fellow who bought a half dozen of these workstations put them in his pickup, opened the boxes up, took out the memory (apparently and odd flavor), then drove over to the dumpster and tossed the workstations/servers in the dumpster and left. Dick -----Original Message----- From: ndiablo@diablonet.net To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, December 11, 1999 9:25 PM Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) >I could almost tell you for sure that the monitor was indeed designed for >use with the Apollo workstations that you're mentioning... or if not >that, perhaps some that came later in the line. :) > >-Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From ndiablo at diablonet.net Sun Dec 12 00:18:55 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies Message-ID: <19991212061855.17982.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Yep, the mice that were used in the Apple IIe/IIc (others as well?) was exactly the same as that used in the Mac 128/512/Plus, and Lisa (which I believe was actually just a serial mouse? i might be wrong). -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 12 00:05:04 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Early Apple mice (was Re: Apple ][ + but no Floppies) In-Reply-To: <19991212061855.17982.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> (ndiablo@diablonet.net) References: <19991212061855.17982.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Message-ID: <19991212060504.31515.qmail@brouhaha.com> Sean Caron wrote: > Yep, the mice that were used in the Apple IIe/IIc (others as well?) was > exactly the same as that used in the Mac 128/512/Plus, and Lisa (which > I believe was actually just a serial mouse? i might be wrong). It was an unencoded (quadrature) mouse. Equivalent to (but not pin-compatible with) an Amiga mouse, or some flavors of "bus mice". All of the pre-ADB Apple mice are interchangeable, except that the original Lisa mice used a strange variant on the DB-9 connector with extra tabs on the female connector, so later Apple mice will not plug into an early Lisa unless you hack the connector. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Dec 12 01:15:13 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Weekend finds - uVAX II w/ SCSI! Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991211224624.01641c20@mcmanis.com> This weekend I saved most of a uVAX II from the scrapper. It is a configuration I didn't recognize with two BA23's. One "normal BA23 and then a Q22 jumper into a second BA23. The rack "sleeves" were connected across the back with a hinged door that held all the cabinet hardware. Pretty neat. Anyway, in what was a total shock, the thing has a "Transitional Technology Inc, QTD-1" Q-bus SCSI controller! If this thing works I'll be in heaven since I've yet to get a working SCSI disk controller for my Vaxen. This looks kind of like a Viking controller, except it has several key (and hopefully really good) differences: 1) It has a 10 pin header that looks like the DEC standard DLV-11 type serial port (rather than the viking "in the scsi cable" port.) 2) It has an NCR53C90 SCSI interface, and 18 nat'l semi 75176BN chips wired up to the 50 pin connector. (I'm hoping these are differential drivers for FAST SCSI II drives) 3) Then it has a Motorola M68901 a covered 40 pin chip (probably the processor) and one RCA 6264 ram chip and a 27C256 EPROM with the "1.7a" firmware in it. Has anyone used one of these? Do you have docs on it? Would you be willing to FAX me the setup information? (I've got a 9GB SCSI drive just waiting for this type of information :-) Other interesting bits was the KA630 + 2 8MB memory boards (M7609), a DHV-11, an M8020 SLU, and an SDI controller (two board set.) The BA23's suffered some damage when they were ripped from the rack (which I didn't save) but there seems to be a salvagable TK50 in one of them and a Q/Q backplane. (The second BA23 was all Q/Q slots! --Chuck From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Dec 12 02:03:43 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies Message-ID: <19991212080343.17302.qmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> --- ndiablo@diablonet.net wrote: > Yep, the mice that were used in the Apple IIe/IIc (others as well?) was > exactly the same as that used in the Mac 128/512/Plus, and Lisa (which > I believe was actually just a serial mouse? i might be wrong). The original Apple mouse passes raw quadrature data to the interface, just like an Amiga mouse or a MS Bus Mouse. It's a TTL device, not serial. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Dec 12 02:37:05 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: FS: VMS 6.2 Distro & Docs Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991212003705.0093f5f0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> This is being CC'd to both port-vax and the CLASSICCMP lists. I have available a complete (and I do mean complete -- I've even got license PAKs!) distro set for VMS/VAX 6.2 on CD-ROM. This has not only the VMS install, but also a whole blortload of extra software from the 'Consolidated Software Distribution' kit. There's about 12-13 CD's total. Want more? How about a complete documentation set, also for VMS 6.2. This is the new DEC 'White Wall' (paperbacks in those goofy boxes), and I remember taking them out of their shrink wrap so I'm pretty sure everything's there. All the stuff could be shipped, but the books will make it heavy. I guesstimate a minimum of 30 pounds (conservative). I'm open for offers. Best offer with the earliest timestamp on the reply gets it. Be ready to cover shipping as well if you're not local (Kent, WA, southeast of Seattle). Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Dec 12 02:36:20 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies In-Reply-To: <19991212080343.17302.qmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 12, 1999 12:03:43 AM Message-ID: <199912120836.BAA17462@calico.litterbox.com> Actually Sequential Systems is still selling a serial PC mouse board that is apple mouse compatible for apple2's. They have lots of cool stuff - and while it's not cheap, they're good people to deal with. http://www.sequential.com/bmus.html > > > > --- ndiablo@diablonet.net wrote: > > Yep, the mice that were used in the Apple IIe/IIc (others as well?) was > > exactly the same as that used in the Mac 128/512/Plus, and Lisa (which > > I believe was actually just a serial mouse? i might be wrong). > > The original Apple mouse passes raw quadrature data to the interface, just > like an Amiga mouse or a MS Bus Mouse. > > It's a TTL device, not serial. > > -ethan > > > ===== > Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. > Please send all replies to > > erd@iname.com > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. > Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Dec 12 02:48:52 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) In-Reply-To: <00c201bf42cf$3b7bdd20$05358ad1@home> Message-ID: >4. According to specs this monitor will support 3D graphics directly with >the right video card. >5. According to Specs it supports an impressive 1158 X 870 resolution. >6. Seems like I get a good working 19 monitor for only $160.00 > >Negative Points: >1. Its 6 years old. >2. Don;t know how many hours are on it. >3. History is unknown.. >4. The Sucker is Big and weighs a ton.. > >So Should I do this or Not ? Absolutely, if it doesn't work out sell it cheap to one of us. Item 4 though is nuts, the monitor has NOTHING to do with 3D. The only 3D monitors I know are by NEC. ;) Negative 4 is very true, and these old monitors suck juice (AC juice) and make heat. Look for some reviews of the SaturnGL before you jump in From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 12 09:20:11 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Announcing: The RSX-11 Freeware CD set Message-ID: <991212102011.21e0084b@trailing-edge.com> With thanks to many on this list for their encouragement and advice, I am proud to announce the availability of the latest volume of PDP-11 freeware: THE RSX-11 FREEWARE CD SET V2.0 a two-CD set containing three decades' worth of RSX-11 freeware. Please see http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/freeware.html for more information on this two CD-ROM set and other PDP-11 freeware volumes, or go straight to http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts/exchange-glance/Y02Y3413832Y7998345 to order through Amazon.com. As always, this freeware is also available (for free) over the net. See http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/freewareFAQ.html for these and other sources of PDP-11 freeware. In brief: Format of the RSX-11 Freeware CD set, V2.0: This is a two-CD set. The first CD has a standard ISO9660 filesystem, and is directly readable on a PC, Mac, Linux/Unix workstation, or VMS box. The second CD has a ODS-1 filesystem, and is filled with ODS-1 virtual disks. The second CD is ideal for direct access while running RSX-11 on a PDP-11 (real or emulated). Contents of RSX-11 Freeware CD set, V2.0: Symposia/SIG Tape collections RSX77B Fall 1977 San Diego RSX78A Spring 1978 Chicago RSX78B Fall 1978 San Francisco RSX79A Spring 1979 New Orleans RSX79B Fall 1979 San Diego RSX80A Spring 1980 Chicago RSX80B Fall 1980 San Francisco RSX81A Spring 1981 Miami RSX81B Fall 1981 Los Angeles RSX82A Spring 1982 Atlanta RSX82B Fall 1982 Anaheim RSX83A Spring 1983 St. Louis RSX83B Fall 1983 Las Vegas RSX83B2 Fall 1983 Las Vegas, second volume RSX84A Spring 1984 Cincinatti RSX84A2 Spring 1984 Cincinatti, second volume RSX84B Fall 1984 Anaheim RSX85A Spring 1985 New Orleans RSX85B Fall 1985 Aneheim RSX86A Spring 1986 Dallas RSX86B Fall 1986 San Francisco RSX87A Spring 1987 Nashville RSX87B Fall 1987 Anaheim RSX88A Spring 1988 Cincinatti RSX88B Fall 1988 Anaheim RSX89A Spring 1989 Atlanta RSX89B Fall 1990 Anaheim RSX89EUR Europe 1989 Den Haag RSX90A Spring 1990 New Orleans RSX90B Fall 1990 Anaheim RSX91B Fall 1991 DECUS 11-nnn Entries 110322 MARGOT MACRO RSX11M MACRO SIB 00AMQ 110593 Control C Trap Handler for FORTRAN Version: V1.05, September 1982 110594 CPU Usage Monitor Display Facility for RSX-11M Version: X02.05, August 1984 110615 CPMRSX: CP/M to DEC Disk Translator for RSX-11M Version: V2.1, December 1984 110626 XLISP: An Experimental Object Oriented Language Version: V1.1, April 1983 110632 Task Image Zapper & Other Goodies Version: Spring 1985 110680 RSX-11M-PLUS System Accounting Reports with Datatrieve Version: October 1983 110681 MM: A Mastermind Game Version: December 1982 110689 Active Task List Scan Version: V01090 110748 BUG: A Debugging Tool Used on Existing IAS Tasks Version: V2.0, June 1984 110750 TEM: A Terminal Emulator for RSX-11 Version: 88.104, May 1988 110760 COMPOSE: VT200 Custom Character Set Generator Program Version: V1.0, October 1984 110767 DFL: A Program to Dump Physical Blocks from Floppy-Disk Version: V1.0, October 1984 110822 VT-200 SET UP Version: V1, September 1985 110823 Task to Task Communications Version: V1.01, November 1985 110836 ReGIS to HP-GL Conversion Program Version: V1.J, December 1985 110849 FIGure - A Calculator for RSX and VMS Version: V86.080, June 1986 110858 EMPIRE Version: October 1986 110870 ECR: Enhanced Console Routine Version: 1, April 1987 110871 IAS KERMIT Version: April 1987 110873 FORTRAN Aids and Tools Version: 1, April 1987 110887 CLE Version: 6.2 110896 MODES Version: 3, August 1986 110898 Finger/RSX Version: December 1987 110899 FDC; Floppy Diskette Copy Version: 1, December 1987 *And* the latest version of SRD from Johnny Bilquist -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From edick at idcomm.com Sun Dec 12 09:59:19 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <000801bf44b9$da28aac0$0400c0a8@winbook> Be careful, now! Don't agree to sell the monitor "cheap" if that means throwing good money after bad. My experience with persons wishing to buy something "cheap" means it is supposed to cost them less than it costs you. Here you're asked to risk paying $160 for a $50 video card with what apparently amounts to a customized EPROM. I'd not buy one of these unless you can, at a minimum, (a) return the card if it doesn't work as you expect, (2) ship the monitor to someone elese who wants it with advance payment in the amount of your purchase PLUS the cost of freight, which will be MUCH more than you pay the monitor. The packing task will be enough of a pain that no one should complain about paying these costs. My experience has been that collectors of old hardware won't pay these actual costs routinely, though they might if the item in question is relevant to a specific project in progress. Good luck! Dick -----Original Message----- From: Mike Ford To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 12, 1999 1:55 AM Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) >>4. According to specs this monitor will support 3D graphics directly with >>the right video card. >>5. According to Specs it supports an impressive 1158 X 870 resolution. >>6. Seems like I get a good working 19 monitor for only $160.00 >> >>Negative Points: >>1. Its 6 years old. >>2. Don;t know how many hours are on it. >>3. History is unknown.. >>4. The Sucker is Big and weighs a ton.. >> >>So Should I do this or Not ? > >Absolutely, if it doesn't work out sell it cheap to one of us. Item 4 >though is nuts, the monitor has NOTHING to do with 3D. The only 3D monitors >I know are by NEC. ;) > >Negative 4 is very true, and these old monitors suck juice (AC juice) and >make heat. > >Look for some reviews of the SaturnGL before you jump in > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 12 09:27:26 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) In-Reply-To: <001001bf4452$22959a60$3b948ad1@home> from "Phil Clayton" at Dec 11, 99 10:36:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 480 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991212/d706aca5/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 12 09:36:39 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Tripos on the PDP-11 In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 11, 99 08:43:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1958 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991212/6b20beae/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 12 09:45:23 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies In-Reply-To: <19991212080343.17302.qmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 12, 99 00:03:43 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 777 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991212/02f2d41d/attachment.ksh From edick at idcomm.com Sun Dec 12 11:47:48 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <000601bf44c9$01cb9e20$0400c0a8@winbook> It's likely they're monochrome (not to suggest IBM-PC-compatible monochrome) in some high-resolution format if they have only one BNC input. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 12, 1999 10:28 AM Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) >> Also there was several HP 20 inch mono monitors ready to be tossed in the >> dumpster, I thought these were Composite video inout because they had one >> BNC connector on them, but likely some sort of fixed Frequency input.. > >They _are_ composite video (meaning that they take one signal which >combines the video signal, horizontal sync, and vertical sync). They are >also fixed-frequency and they almost certainly don't work at TV rates but >at something much higher. > >-tony > From emu at ecubics.com Sun Dec 12 12:20:08 1999 From: emu at ecubics.com (emanuel stiebler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Motorola 68k family ( was Re: Comparison of system specs. ) References: from "Zane H. Healy" atDec 11, 99 11:08:39 am Message-ID: <00de01bf44cd$8d3098e0$5d01a8c0@ecubuero> ----- Original Message ----- From: Zane H. Healy To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Saturday, December 11, 1999 4:28 PM Subject: Motorola 68k family ( was Re: Comparison of system specs. ) > > I find that very odd as usually each suceeding generation of CPU typically > >includes more instructions (or more addressing modes). It may be that the > >latest 68k CPUs have timing differences that make running certain Amiga > >software problematic. Do you have any more information on this? > > > > -spc (Have Amiga will program) > > Unfortunatly I don't remember where I read that for sure, and I'm not 100% > sure it's the Dragonball, but the Dragonball sounds like the right follow > on processor. I think I read it in the TEAM Amiga Mailing list, in one of > Dave Haynie's posts, but like I said, I don't remember. > > However, I think even some of the 68040 and 68060 series chips don't have > all the instructions of earlier processors. We got any 68k pro's around > here? AFAIR, the FPU in had not all the instructions of the original 68881&68882. some of the trigonemtric functions were missing, and motorola provided a library with an emulation of this ... but that's a long time ago ... cheers, emanuel From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Dec 12 12:41:05 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies Message-ID: <19991212184106.20191.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > It's a TTL device, not serial. > > The one does not preclude the other :-) Fair enough. I wasn't specific. I only meant that it used +5/gnd as opposed to +/-12 (EIA levels). > A PERQ 'Kriz mouse' is TTL (all signals are at TTL levels) and it is > serial (synchronous clock/data) interface. A PS/2 mouse is also TTL and > serial (but a different flavour of serial). I didn't know that the PERQ used a sync-serial mouse at TTL levels, but are you sure about the PS/2 mice? After all, there is an adapter you can stick on mice to adapt them from 9-pin serial to PS/2 connector, and it's only wires, no active components. To continue flogging this dead horse, VAXstation mice are serial but not strictly RS-232 serial (RS-423?) and Sun mice are yet another form of serial mouse. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun Dec 12 13:36:33 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - KC0CUE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Weekend Classic Trip Report Message-ID: Just wanted to let folks know the results of my Saturday trip. I left Des Moines and drove to Kansas City, where I met Mike McFadden. Mike's an extremely pleasant, helpful fellow who showed me where to find good surplus in KCMO. I'll DEFINITELY be visiting KC more often! I went there to pick up the VT220s he advertised on ClassicCmp. I walked away from one surplus place, having spent only $10, and got (1) M7606 MicroVaxII CPU board (spare for my MVAX II) (1) Cisco IGS Multiprotocol Router/Bridge and a couple miscellaneous bits and pieces. Not bad for $10. Then I drove to Lincoln, NE and visited Bill Richman, who recently posted some items for auction. Another really nice guy. Picked up the Tek 532 and the aluminum cart it sits in. I also picked up some other spiffy items, which I'll describe later. So, the entire trip (including gas) cost me $90 (less than the cost to ship the items), got me out on the road for a few hours of relaxing driving and allowed me to bring home some unusual items that are scarce or non-existent in Des Moines. Anthony Clifton From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 12 13:41:53 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Weekend finds - uVAX II w/ SCSI! In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991211224624.01641c20@mcmanis.com> (message from Chuck McManis on Sat, 11 Dec 1999 23:15:13 -0800) References: <4.2.0.58.19991211224624.01641c20@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <19991212194153.1616.qmail@brouhaha.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > 2) It has an NCR53C90 SCSI interface, and 18 nat'l semi 75176BN chips > wired up to the 50 pin connector. (I'm hoping these are differential > drivers for FAST SCSI II drives) There's good news and bad news. The good news is that yes, those definitely are differential transceivers. The bad news is that FAST SCSI 2 is *NOT* differential. It's single ended. 99.9% of the drives you're likely to encounter are single-ended. Differential and single-ended will not mix [1]. It sounds like this controller will ONLY work with differential drives, unless they provided some sort of jumper arrangement to bypass the differential transceivers. There exist single-ended to differential converters, but they're very expensive. Good luck! Eric [1] The new-fangled "Low Voltage Differential" (LVD) is different than the traditional SCSI differential. They cleverly designed most (all?) LVD drives so that they will work on either LVD or single-ended busses. But LVD drives will NOT operate on traditional differential SCSI. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Dec 12 14:44:24 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Weekend finds - uVAX II w/ SCSI! In-Reply-To: <19991212194153.1616.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <4.2.0.58.19991211224624.01641c20@mcmanis.com> <4.2.0.58.19991211224624.01641c20@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991212124424.00955710@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 19:41 12-12-1999 -0000, Eric Smith wrote: >The bad news is that FAST SCSI 2 is *NOT* differential. It's single >ended. 99.9% of the drives you're likely to encounter are single-ended. >Differential and single-ended will not mix [1]. While it's true that the majority of the drives encountered are single-ended, the statement "FAST SCSI-2 is not differential" is not accurate. I know it to be inaccurate for two reasons. 1). Differential is merely the signaling interface. SCSI, as a protocol, couldn't care less whether the I/F is SE or Diff. In fact, FAST rates will work better on diff because of the low susceptibility to noise. 2). I've come across a wide variety of Fast SCSI-2 drives, both here in my lab and at the used computer place I frequent, that are indeed differential. Most of them were Seagates, and you can tell they're diffs by (a), the termination arrangement, and (b), the fact that they have a 'D' at the end of their model number. Example: ST43400ND. 5.25" full-height SCSI-2 Fast HD, Elite series, 2.9 gigs formatted capacity. As one final example, I once converted a Fujitsu 3.5" Fast SCSI-2 HD from diff to SE simply be swapping in the SE-interface logic board from an identical drive with bad media. You are, however, absolutely right in the statement that diff and SE cannot be mixed on the same bus. The only exception is using an SE-to-Diff adapter for the mismatched device. >There exist single-ended to differential converters, but they're very >expensive. Unless you can find them surplus, in which case they're often $10 or less. ;-) >[1] The new-fangled "Low Voltage Differential" (LVD) is different than the >traditional SCSI differential. They cleverly designed most (all?) LVD >drives so that they will work on either LVD or single-ended busses. But >LVD drives will NOT operate on traditional differential SCSI. Yes and no. When an LVD drive is installed on an SE bus, it merely switches to SE mode. The advantages of LVD are lost. Clarification from the Great(?) Northwest! ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 12 13:46:23 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) In-Reply-To: <000601bf44c9$01cb9e20$0400c0a8@winbook> from "Richard Erlacher" at Dec 12, 99 10:47:48 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 645 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991212/e6e07b5c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 12 13:50:17 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies In-Reply-To: <19991212184106.20191.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 12, 99 10:41:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1442 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991212/e4abe001/attachment.ksh From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 12 15:41:17 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies In-Reply-To: Ethan Dicks "Re: Apple ][ + but no Floppies" (Dec 12, 10:41) References: <19991212184106.20191.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9912122141.ZM3114@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 12, 10:41, Ethan Dicks wrote: > I didn't know that the PERQ used a sync-serial mouse at TTL levels, but > are you sure about the PS/2 mice? After all, there is an adapter you can > stick on mice to adapt them from 9-pin serial to PS/2 connector, and it's > only wires, no active components. Those which are completely passive only work on certain dual-function mice, in which the PIC can detect the change -- by detecting the voltage on a different pin -- and act accordingly, changing the protocol. In general, you can't turn any old serial mouse into a PS/2 mouse, nor vice-versa. To further confuse, there are at least two pinouts for such adapters. However, there are some active adapters, which themselves contain a processor (usually a PIC) which will convert the serial protocol into PS/2 protocol. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Sun Dec 12 15:51:21 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - KC0CUE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Northstar CPU Card in Regular S100 Bus? Message-ID: I have a weird question. Could a Northstar MPU-A be used in a normal S100 bus chassis with other cards to provide console, disk, i/o, memory functions? If no, why not? If yes, what issues can arise from doing this? The reason I ask is that I have a nice clean empty TEI chassis, a Northstar CPU cards, some memory boards, an SMB multifunction i/o card and a Disk Jockey 2D. I'm sure the thing would end up being fairly weird, but I don't care about that. Just exploring ideas for misc hardware sitting around my basement. Anthony Clifton From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 12 15:54:56 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies Message-ID: <991212165456.21e0085c@trailing-edge.com> >> It's a TTL device, not serial. >The one does not preclude the other :-) >The Apple mouse is TTL, and it's not serial (it's quadrature outputs as >you said) >A PC 'serial mouse' is serial (of course) and it's not TTL, it works at >(approximately) RS232 levels For some of us (including me!), our first brush with "serial" was 60mA current loop data, a standard that I see you've ignored :-) With some of the loop supplies being able to go up to 50, 75, or even 100V in "open circuit" configuration, I'd *hate* to see what would happen to TTL connected directly! (I have to admit that I got started late enough that optoisolators were the preferred way to go from current loop to other signaling levels... but I do remember polar relays.) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Dec 12 16:08:10 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Weekend finds - uVAX II w/ SCSI! In-Reply-To: <19991212194153.1616.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: <4.2.0.58.19991211224624.01641c20@mcmanis.com> <4.2.0.58.19991211224624.01641c20@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991212140242.01bbe930@mcmanis.com> At 07:41 PM 12/12/99 +0000, Eric Smith wrote: >Chuck McManis wrote: > > 2) It has an NCR53C90 SCSI interface, and 18 nat'l semi 75176BN chips > > wired up to the 50 pin connector. (I'm hoping these are differential > > drivers for FAST SCSI II drives) > >There's good news and bad news. The good news is that yes, those definitely >are differential transceivers. > >The bad news is that FAST SCSI 2 is *NOT* differential. It's single >ended. 99.9% of the drives you're likely to encounter are single-ended. >Differential and single-ended will not mix [1]. Well, I "liberated" a couple of 2+ GB drives (Seagates) from a Sun 490 disk tray that suggest they are differential SCSI. I could live with 4GB :-). Its intereface termination resistors are plug in sips. I wonder if they used the trick where you replace the four rows of sips with a single DIP terminator to switch it to an SE bus. TransTech still has a web site but so far no word from their Support email. Another interesting bit is that it is a QDT so presumably it is disk and tape, but I don't think I've ever seen a differential tape drive. Perhaps they assume the tape drive has the converter on it. >It sounds like this controller will ONLY work with differential drives, >unless they provided some sort of jumper arrangement to bypass the >differential transceivers. To be determined. >There exist single-ended to differential converters, but they're very >expensive. Actually I recall that Disk Drive Depot sells them fairly cheaply. (less than $20 as I recall) --Chuck From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Dec 12 16:31:32 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Good Week Message-ID: <009801bf44f0$a53336a0$6bdab0d0@jrkeysppt> Well this week has been a good one in that I picked up a very large number of manuals for all types of hardware and software from Kim-1's to early Packard Bells. I got over 20 - 2600 cartridges plus 10 for the Vectrex. I also added over 15 new mousepads to the collection. I got a NEC StarLet portable computer model PC-8401A that needs work. An HP Integral PC with a HP 82916A 1mb memory module, a HP 82919A option 001 Serial interface module, HP Rom Module UX/RO Rel 5.0 unit turns on both nothing on the screen. I picked up a Tektronic type 576 Curve Tracer that needs work. I also got a Commodore 1351 mouse and an Amiga mouse at the same thrift. I go 3 notebooks that are not 10 years old yet but they were free (1-286 & 2-386's). I also got for free a Sears TV/Monitor from June 1984 that still works. All in all the week was very good for saving items and building more for the museum. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991212/086a9426/attachment.html From jim at calico.litterbox.com Sun Dec 12 16:39:04 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Weekend finds - uVAX II w/ SCSI! In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991212140242.01bbe930@mcmanis.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Dec 12, 1999 02:08:10 PM Message-ID: <199912122239.PAA20217@calico.litterbox.com> > > At 07:41 PM 12/12/99 +0000, Eric Smith wrote: > >Chuck McManis wrote: > > > 2) It has an NCR53C90 SCSI interface, and 18 nat'l semi 75176BN chips > > > wired up to the 50 pin connector. (I'm hoping these are differential > > > drivers for FAST SCSI II drives) > > > >There's good news and bad news. The good news is that yes, those definitely > >are differential transceivers. > > > >The bad news is that FAST SCSI 2 is *NOT* differential. It's single > >ended. 99.9% of the drives you're likely to encounter are single-ended. > >Differential and single-ended will not mix [1]. > > Well, I "liberated" a couple of 2+ GB drives (Seagates) from a Sun 490 disk > tray that suggest they are differential SCSI. I could live with 4GB :-). > Its intereface termination resistors are plug in sips. I wonder if they > used the trick where you replace the four rows of sips with a single DIP > terminator to switch it to an SE bus. TransTech still has a web site but so > far no word from their Support email. > > Another interesting bit is that it is a QDT so presumably it is disk and > tape, but I don't think I've ever seen a differential tape drive. Perhaps > they assume the tape drive has the converter on it. > > >It sounds like this controller will ONLY work with differential drives, > >unless they provided some sort of jumper arrangement to bypass the > >differential transceivers. > > To be determined. > > >There exist single-ended to differential converters, but they're very > >expensive. > > Actually I recall that Disk Drive Depot sells them fairly cheaply. (less > than $20 as I recall) > > --Chuck > Also, for the difinitive answer on whether your drives are differential or not, I'd suggest going to www.seagate.com and looking them up. And re: disk drive depot, their parent corporation does business on the web as www.corpsys.com. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Dec 12 16:53:40 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Need a PDP-11/34 operators panel? Message-ID: ...or two? Trying (yet again, or is that still?) to make some room on the 'Garage' for winter projects, and came across a couple of potentially interesting things which could use a home... Two PDP-11/34 operator panels. These are NOT the panels with the numeric displays and keypad. These panels have three LED status indicators, two switches (boot/init & run/halt), and a power selection dial. I don't recall where/when I picked them up, and my '34 has it's panel, so... If you have a machine that needs a panel, you can have one for the cost of shipping. (unless you feel real guilty and want to throw in something for trade) If you just want to hang it on the wall, it'll cost you $25.00/ea or an interesting (and useful) trade. -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org || jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Dec 12 18:54:56 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:15 2005 Subject: Good Week In-Reply-To: <009801bf44f0$a53336a0$6bdab0d0@jrkeysppt> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991212185456.225fe292@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:31 PM 12/12/99 -0600, John wrote: >Well this week has been a good one in that I picked up a very large number of manuals > An HP Integral PC with a HP 82916A 1mb memory module, a HP 82919A option 001 Serial >interface module, HP Rom Module UX/RO Rel 5.0 Cool! That's the much desired SE (Software Engineering) ROM. It's a MOL complete UNIX system in a ROM. >unit turns on both nothing on the screen. I have a service manual for it. Joe From SeaMasterZ at aol.com Sun Dec 12 17:05:40 1999 From: SeaMasterZ at aol.com (SeaMasterZ@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Z-Star 433 VL info/parts Message-ID: <0.77d8930f.25858444@aol.com> Hello, I have a Zenith Data Systems Z - Star 433 VL, which needs the AC-375-A power supply. It's a 22 VDC, 1.27 amp unit, and has a very unusual power plug ... 4 holes in the center and 4 slots around the perimeter ... the computer is a TYPE NTB 003, M/N: ZPD-4834-KF, serial # 4MSBLK000406 Does anyone know about this computer? Is it capable of running win 95? If anyone has a power supply or battery for sale I would like to buy it/them, should either of the laptops work I would use them for word processing away from the main unit. Ray Cook SeaMasterZ@AOL.COM From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Dec 12 17:22:25 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Good Week References: <3.0.1.16.19991212185456.225fe292@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <001c01bf44f7$c08648a0$6bdab0d0@jrkeysppt> Great I will play wit it a little more and then e-mail you some questions. Thanks John ----- Original Message ----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Sunday, December 12, 1999 6:54 PM Subject: Re: Good Week > At 04:31 PM 12/12/99 -0600, John wrote: > >Well this week has been a good one in that I picked up a very large number > of manuals > > > > > An HP Integral PC with a HP 82916A 1mb memory module, a HP 82919A option > 001 Serial >interface module, HP Rom Module UX/RO Rel 5.0 > > Cool! That's the much desired SE (Software Engineering) ROM. It's a MOL > complete UNIX system in a ROM. > > >unit turns on both nothing on the screen. > > I have a service manual for it. > > Joe > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 12 17:38:06 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Weekend finds - uVAX II w/ SCSI! In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991212140242.01bbe930@mcmanis.com> References: <19991212194153.1616.qmail@brouhaha.com> <4.2.0.58.19991211224624.01641c20@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: >>Chuck McManis wrote: >Another interesting bit is that it is a QDT so presumably it is disk and >tape, but I don't think I've ever seen a differential tape drive. Perhaps >they assume the tape drive has the converter on it. Diff tape drives are all we use at work. >>There exist single-ended to differential converters, but they're very >>expensive. > >Actually I recall that Disk Drive Depot sells them fairly cheaply. (less >than $20 as I recall) And who are they? That's an amazing price! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 12 16:34:46 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Apple ][ + but no Floppies In-Reply-To: <991212165456.21e0085c@trailing-edge.com> from "CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com" at Dec 12, 99 04:54:56 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1030 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991212/73a64d15/attachment.ksh From yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt Sun Dec 12 18:02:22 1999 From: yoda at isr.ist.utl.pt (Rodrigo Ventura) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Xerox D-series workstations Tape Drive Message-ID: Hi. I recovered a couple of Xerox tape drives for the Daybreak workstation, but I can't get any of them working on my PC. Does anyone have the specs for it? Is it a true QIC drive? Can anyone give me a hand on getting it to work with linux ftape drivers? Cheers, -- *** Rodrigo Martins de Matos Ventura *** Web page: http://www.isr.ist.utl.pt/~yoda *** Teaching Assistant and PhD Student at ISR: *** Instituto de Sistemas e Robotica, Polo de Lisboa *** Instituto Superior Tecnico, Lisboa, PORTUGAL *** PGP fingerprint = 0119 AD13 9EEE 264A 3F10 31D3 89B3 C6C4 60C6 4585 From bobstek at ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 12 18:13:12 1999 From: bobstek at ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: NorthStar CPU Card in Regular S100 Bus? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: According to my Horizon manual, "... can be used in any standard S-100 bus computer and will operate in conjunction with nearly all other S-100 bus boards." If you need docs or a schematic let me know. I have used a Morrow DJ2 with my Horizon quite successfully. Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs (and a Horizon or two) -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Anthony Clifton - KC0CUE Sent: Sunday, December 12, 1999 4:51 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Northstar CPU Card in Regular S100 Bus? I have a weird question. Could a Northstar MPU-A be used in a normal S100 bus chassis with other cards to provide console, disk, i/o, memory functions? If no, why not? If yes, what issues can arise from doing this? The reason I ask is that I have a nice clean empty TEI chassis, a Northstar CPU cards, some memory boards, an SMB multifunction i/o card and a Disk Jockey 2D. I'm sure the thing would end up being fairly weird, but I don't care about that. Just exploring ideas for misc hardware sitting around my basement. Anthony Clifton From aek at spies.com Sun Dec 12 18:13:53 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Xerox D-series workstations Tape Drive Message-ID: <199912130013.QAA25032@spies.com> "Is it a true QIC drive?" It uses a floppy disc interface. From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 12 18:16:50 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Xerox D-series workstations Tape Drive In-Reply-To: (message from Rodrigo Ventura on 13 Dec 1999 00:02:22 +0000) References: Message-ID: <19991213001650.3806.qmail@brouhaha.com> Rodrigo Ventura wrote: > Hi. I recovered a couple of Xerox tape drives for the Daybreak > workstation, but I can't get any of them working on my PC. Does anyone > have the specs for it? Is it a true QIC drive? Can anyone give me a > hand on getting it to work with linux ftape drivers? How did you hook it up to a PC? I've got some of those, and they aren't electrically compatible with any connector on a PC. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 12 18:26:30 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Xerox D-series workstations Tape Drive In-Reply-To: from "Rodrigo Ventura" at Dec 13, 99 00:02:22 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1011 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991213/c517cc59/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 12 19:01:25 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Xerox D-series workstations Tape Drive In-Reply-To: <19991213001650.3806.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 13, 99 00:16:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 975 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991213/0db6cced/attachment.ksh From jfoust at threedee.com Sun Dec 12 19:11:50 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Tripos on the PDP-11 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991212191150.00f41980@pc> At 08:43 PM 12/11/99 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: >I was just looking up some info in the PDP-11 FAQ, and glancing through the >list of OS's, I noticed Tripos. I assume you know the connections between Tripos, BCPL and AmigaDOS? - John From edick at idcomm.com Sun Dec 12 19:40:13 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Northstar CPU Card in Regular S100 Bus? Message-ID: <002901bf450b$01000ac0$0400c0a8@winbook> That should certainly be the case with the N* CPU I recently gave to one of the list participants. It had no hardware on board which would prevent it from working with pretty much any other S-100 hardware, aside from the usual risk, since there were no real standards, even after the adoption of the IEEE P696 standard. With more signals than were needed, it was always possible another maker's card might expect different combinations of signals to do the same job. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Anthony Clifton - KC0CUE To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 12, 1999 3:00 PM Subject: Northstar CPU Card in Regular S100 Bus? > >I have a weird question. Could a Northstar MPU-A be used in a normal S100 bus >chassis with other cards to provide console, disk, i/o, memory functions? > >If no, why not? > >If yes, what issues can arise from doing this? > >The reason I ask is that I have a nice clean empty TEI chassis, a Northstar CPU >cards, some memory boards, an SMB multifunction i/o card and a Disk Jockey >2D. I'm sure the thing would end up being fairly weird, but I don't care >about >that. > >Just exploring ideas for misc hardware sitting around my basement. > >Anthony Clifton > > From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Dec 12 19:57:00 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Northstar CPU Card in Regular S100 Bus? Message-ID: <199912130157.UAA26014@world.std.com> References: Message-ID: >At 08:43 PM 12/11/99 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: >>I was just looking up some info in the PDP-11 FAQ, and glancing through the >>list of OS's, I noticed Tripos. > >I assume you know the connections between Tripos, BCPL and AmigaDOS? > >- John Well, let's just say you confirmed that my memory isn't as faulty as I often suspect. Though I seem to remember that they were supposed to be using a VAX, I don't remember ever hearing about a PDP-11. However, overall, I don't know that I know much about it, just heard that it has something to do with the developement of the AmigaOS. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From musicman38 at mindspring.com Sun Dec 12 20:15:10 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <008401bf450f$e410de80$5d948ad1@home> >One fellow who bought a half dozen of these workstations put them in his >pickup, opened the boxes up, took out the memory (apparently and odd >flavor), then drove over to the dumpster and tossed the workstations/servers >in the dumpster and left. I ended up with 5 of these HP Apollo 400's.. In each of them I found a 230 MB SCSI Hard Drive, a 68040 Processor, and an 8 or 16 MB 72pin Simm in each. After I remove the 3 components I will discard the remaining cases.. But first I am going to hook up the 19 inch HP monitor to one of Apollo's just to see what happens, enjoy the event and them toss that nice Very Expensive (Original Cost) monitor out with the rest of the stuff.. Phil.. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Dec 12 20:58:24 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Weekend Classic Trip Report Message-ID: <19991213025824.10193.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> --- Anthony Clifton - KC0CUE wrote: > (1) Cisco IGS Multiprotocol Router/Bridge > and a couple miscellaneous bits and pieces. Not bad for $10. Ooh! I'm looking for an ethernet board for my AGS+ router - it'll be multibus. I have a quad V.35 ("fast serial") board in there now that does me no good. It has those compact Cisco connectors, not the standard, huge-pin V.35 connectors. Any leads on old Cisco parts? Anyone? -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From spc at armigeron.com Sun Dec 12 20:55:20 1999 From: spc at armigeron.com (Sean 'Captain Napalm' Conner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Tripos on the PDP-11 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991212191150.00f41980@pc> from "John Foust" at Dec 12, 99 07:11:50 pm Message-ID: <199912130255.VAA09844@armigeron.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 723 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991212/d64e6bc8/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Dec 12 22:02:38 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Qbus and Q/CD jumpers Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991212195842.00aa29c0@mcmanis.com> I've read the micronotes but I'm still confused. I've got a DHV11 in a BA213 which is 12 Q/CD slots. Since the slots aren't Q/Q it doesn't need the jumpers installed for the grants but will having them installed screw anything up? --Chuck From stanp at storm.ca Sun Dec 12 22:56:34 1999 From: stanp at storm.ca (Stan Pietkiewicz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: KDA50 cableset References: <19991212014750.17097.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Message-ID: <38547C82.8CD5D568@storm.ca> ndiablo@diablonet.net wrote: > Hi! Just out of curiousity, does anybody have a spare cable set for a KDA50 they > might be interested in getting rid of? :) Willing to pay reasonable unit cost > plus all shipping and handling charges. > > Thanks! > -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) What parts are you looking for?? I may have some spares kicking around..... Stan From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Mon Dec 13 01:19:29 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: PDP-10 In-Reply-To: <19991212005125.30457.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 12, 99 00:51:25 am Message-ID: <199912130719.XAA26720@saul9.u.washington.edu> Eric Smith wrote: > Van Burnham wrote: > > Does anyone have access to a working PDP-10 and a copy of ADVENT? I need to > > get an image of the program running on the system. > > What exactly do you mean by "an image of the program running on the system"? It's possible that Van means "an image" as in "a bunch of bits"... maybe he wants a memory dump of a running copy, or maybe he just wants to run it. Or maybe you're right about the photograph meaning. Only Van knows the answer. -- Derek From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon Dec 13 01:28:57 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: 11/44 - RSTS Fun Message-ID: Today when I got up I knew it was going to be 'play with big computers' day... I got 24 of the 36 ports up and running on my 11/44 machine... it only took four or five hours of messing around with things. I made good use of the RSTS "Broadcast" untility, and by repeatedly sending long messages to all ports, I was able to work out the loose/upside down cables, DCE/DTE confusions, etc. Thank Heaven for the little RS-232 breakout box and status indicator. I had the console on my PC, a C.Itoh C101 on another port running the DISPLY system status monitor, and an LA120 on yet another port. Even the Kennedy 9100 woke up happy and functioned well. I just shut the system down (after listening to the wonderful roar for about eight hours) and now it's time to run SHUTUP on myself. Nothing like having the OS Docs, either. I certainly learned another big chunk of RSTS/E tonite. More than half the battle was understanding how to manage and configure the system. It took a great deal of study and cross-referencing to find the little secrets and gotchas. I am in the market for a Unibus Ethernet card: will beg/trade/buy. Anyone have such a beast? Now it's time for the 11/44 to talk to the uVax II. Next task is getting one of the old DC03 Modems hooked up and running... then to load a comm program and access this List from a completely vintage PDP system. At 300 Baud. [Woo,Hoo] Cheers John From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon Dec 13 01:31:09 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Qbus and Q/CD jumpers In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991212195842.00aa29c0@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 12 Dec 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > I've read the micronotes but I'm still confused. I've got a DHV11 in a > BA213 which is 12 Q/CD slots. Since the slots aren't Q/Q it doesn't need > the jumpers installed for the grants but will having them installed screw > anything up? Chuck, I have the DHV11 Technical Manual here, if that would be of any help. I can transcribe relevant parts, or send it to you for a loaner... Let me know. Cheers John From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Dec 13 02:17:04 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Qbus and Q/CD jumpers In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.19991212195842.00aa29c0@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991213000626.01654900@mcmanis.com> At 11:31 PM 12/12/99 -0800, John Lawson wrote: > Chuck, I have the DHV11 Technical Manual here, if that would be of >any help. I can transcribe relevant parts, or send it to you for a >loaner... The relevant bits in this case would be the description of the jumpers "W1" and "W2" which control the shorting of the bus grant pins on the C/D fingers. One way to answer the question is this: Does the DHV11 with its bus grant jumpers installed, interfere with memory connected to a KA650 VAX processor? I've got a BA213 chassis which is Q/CD for all of its slots. Interestingly, from another BA213 I pulled a CXY08 (M3119) and it had its jumpers installed. That would suggest that they don't interfere with the VAX memory subsystem. When I install the DHV11 "ahead" of the KFQSA DSSI controller, the operating system periodically gets bogus data in its memory pages. I'll probably go ahead and cut the jumpers as an experiment, but this isn't "knowing" --Chuck From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Dec 13 08:26:01 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Tripos on the PDP-11 In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19991212191150.00f41980@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991213082601.00d9a850@pc> At 06:01 PM 12/12/99 -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: >Well, let's just say you confirmed that my memory isn't as faulty as I >often suspect. Though I seem to remember that they were supposed to be >using a VAX, I don't remember ever hearing about a PDP-11. However, >overall, I don't know that I know much about it, just heard that it has >something to do with the developement of the AmigaOS. My memory may be faulty, too, in the details. I remember that Carl Sassenrath wrote the Exec (by using the recommendations of a textbook, because he hadn't written an OS core before) but they needed more OS structure above that. They recognized they didn't have the time to do it themselves, so they bought Tripos and grafted the two together. This is the explanation for the BCPL pointers in the low-level Amiga OS, the file system, etc. I'd guess Martin Richards is asked about this all the time, more often than people actually ask about Tripos itself. Carl Sassenrath could fill in other details. - John From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Dec 13 09:16:13 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <19991213.091619.216.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:15:10 -0500 "Phil Clayton" writes: > > >One fellow who bought a half dozen of these workstations put them > >in his pickup, opened the boxes up, took out the memory (apparently and odd > >flavor), then drove over to the dumpster and tossed the workstations/servers > >in the dumpster and left. > > > I ended up with 5 of these HP Apollo 400's.. In each of them I found a 230 > MB SCSI Hard Drive, a 68040 Processor, and an 8 or 16 MB 72pin Simm in each. > After I remove the 3 components I will discard the remaining cases.. I hate living in this part of the world. You almost never see opportunities like this here on the plains. . . . > But first I am going to hook up the 19 inch HP monitor to one of Apollo's > just to see what happens, enjoy the event and them toss that nice Very > Expensive (Original Cost) monitor out with the rest of the stuff.. > > Phil.. Actually, depending on the model, these things can run NetBSD or OpenBSD. If they're set up for DomainOS, OTOH, they're probably more trouble than they're worth . . . . Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 13 09:44:04 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <000801bf4580$e37b43e0$0400c0a8@winbook> It might be well to consider that the place that had these HP units and still has the monitors, is a retailer of surplus electronics. What's more, he's located in the Denver metro area. Almost all this stuff came from Martin Marietta from the period when they were disposing of lots of hardware prior to being bought up by Lockheed. The fact that they were prone to BUY this kind of stuff is one of many examples available of the type of behavior which put them in the position to be taken over by Lockheed. This HP stuff never worked properly during the time I was there. It was mostly software trouble, but it never did work well enough that I was able to use it without having to use my PC to do the "real" work. HP got into CAE in '88 when they bought Apollo, and announced it was getting out in '91, leaving everyone who'd bought their hardware/software in the lurch. Meanwhile, Martin promoted and/or paid bonuses to the fools who had bought in to the previously unheard-of and inexperienced CAE/CAD vendor HP turned out to be. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey l Kaneko To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 8:25 AM Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) > > >On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:15:10 -0500 "Phil Clayton" > writes: >> >> >One fellow who bought a half dozen of these workstations put them >> >in his pickup, opened the boxes up, took out the memory (apparently >and odd >> >flavor), then drove over to the dumpster and tossed the >workstations/servers >> >in the dumpster and left. >> >> >> I ended up with 5 of these HP Apollo 400's.. In each of them I found a >230 >> MB SCSI Hard Drive, a 68040 Processor, and an 8 or 16 MB 72pin Simm in >each. >> After I remove the 3 components I will discard the remaining cases.. > >I hate living in this part of the world. You almost never see >opportunities >like this here on the plains. . . . > >> But first I am going to hook up the 19 inch HP monitor to one of >Apollo's >> just to see what happens, enjoy the event and them toss that nice Very >> Expensive (Original Cost) monitor out with the rest of the stuff.. >> >> Phil.. > >Actually, depending on the model, these things can run NetBSD or OpenBSD. >If they're set up for DomainOS, OTOH, they're probably more trouble than >they're worth . . . . > > >Jeff > >___________________________________________________________________ >Why pay more to get Web access? >Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! >Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From steverob at hotoffice.com Mon Dec 13 09:39:04 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: NCR 400 UPDATE Message-ID: <01BF4556.471E3810.steverob@hotoffice.com> Well, I went and picked up the NCR Tower 400 this weekend. The 400 is about the size of a LARGE tower PC. I haven't measured but, it's about 28" inches tall, 24 inches deep, and 7 inches wide. I'd guess it weighs about 75 pounds. As with all new aquisitions, the first thing I did was open it up, remove all the cards, blow out the dust, check for missing or damaged parts, and then reinstall everything. The 400 is a 20MHZ 68020 machine built on a 4-slot multibus backplane. This particular system has 20MB of main memory, 60MB tape drive, 120MB hard drive, 10 serial ports, 2 SCSI interfaces, and 2 serail printer ports (each port will support 4 printers). Based on the date codes on the chips, this machine was probably built in late 1985. I reassembled the system and spent HOURS trying to get it to talk to a terminal. The system has a funky 15 pin connectior for the console and no documentation. I had to trace the connections back to the CPU and was able to determine which were inputs and which were outputs based on whether they went to a 1488 or 1489. After much tinkering, I was finally able to get the system to send data to the terminal during boot. NOTE: It uses a 9600 baud, 7-bit, and no parity. Spent another 3 or 4 hours and was finally able to get the terminal to talk to the system. Whoopee!!! Finally got data going both ways. Unfortunately, the system still won't boot the OS. The sequence goes something like this: ? ? MMU MEM HIO1 HIO2 DK5 The system hangs at the DK5 message. Since I'm not seeing any disk activity, I'm sorta assuming the "DK5" refers to a disk activity. If anyone can confirm this, I'd appreciate it? It isn't a big deal because I'll be getting the 450 in a few weeks and if the 400 doesn't work, I'll have a few spares for the 450. I got a look at the 450 while I was there and it looks more interesting. Physically, it about twice as "thick" as the 400 and probably weighs twice as much. Didn't look inside but would assume it has a 6 or 8 slot multibus backplane. I believe it will support 16 terminals. The good news is that the 450 is still in daily use so, I know it'll work when I get it home. The system will be available in a couple of months and I'll send an update once I get it. Neither machine is really all THAT interesting but, I don't have any other multibus systems and kinda wanted one. Later, Steve Robertson - From mfhoneycutt at earthlink.net Mon Dec 13 10:47:37 1999 From: mfhoneycutt at earthlink.net (Mark Honeycutt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Help Message-ID: <00c001bf4589$c3fdf5e0$6402a8c0@laptop.home.net> Greetings, I just picked up a PDP 11/23 in excellent condition from an accountant that was going to dispose of it. It has two RL02 drives and 10 disk packs. My background in DEC stuff is only VMS, so I checked around and found some info on booting the machine, which I did successfully.. once. I was able to get a directory listing and type a few files. The system has RT-11 v4.00 with a runtime package in Dibol for general ledger, etc. I halted the machine and tried to restart it again, only this time it complains. The display I'm getting is.. TESTING MEMORY 0124.KW START? Y 000010 @ I also tried 173000G at the @ prompt, and still get 000010. Is there something I'm doing wrong here? I've also been searching for a FAQ of some type on RT-11 and the 11/23. Found some stuff, but would be very interested if someone has a jewel URL they'd be willing to share. Like I said, the machine is in beautiful shape, been well cared for, one owner. I had to drive 5 hours one way to get it (Houston to Shreveport, LA), but was worth every mile. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Best regards, Mark Honeycutt Baytown, TX From oliv555 at arrl.net Mon Dec 13 11:22:17 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: 11/44 - RSTS Fun References: Message-ID: <38552B49.D9AAD87A@arrl.net> John Lawson wrote: > I am in the market for a Unibus Ethernet card: will beg/trade/buy. > Anyone have such a beast? Now it's time for the 11/44 to talk to the > uVax II. Last time I was browsing the HardwareConnection site they had the 2-board DEUNA listed for about $10/board. Nick From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Dec 13 11:26:28 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Help In-Reply-To: <00c001bf4589$c3fdf5e0$6402a8c0@laptop.home.net> Message-ID: <4.1.19991213092419.00a4c8b0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> At 10:47 AM 12/13/99 -0600, Mark Honeycutt wrote: >I also tried 173000G at the @ prompt, and still get 000010. Is there >something I'm doing wrong here? I've also been searching for a FAQ of some >type on RT-11 and the 11/23. Found some stuff, but would be very interested >if someone has a jewel URL they'd be willing to share. The "halt" switch is set. This causes the system to pop into ODT rather than to run programs. On the 11/23 there are _two_ halt switches, one on the front of the box and one on the BDV11 boot/terminator board. I'm guessing that you switched on, or the other, or both somehow. --Chuck From mbg at world.std.com Mon Dec 13 12:41:21 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Help Message-ID: <199912131841.NAA02921@world.std.com> >I just picked up a PDP 11/23 in excellent condition from an accountant >that was going to dispose of it. It has two RL02 drives and 10 disk >packs. My background in DEC stuff is only VMS, so I checked around and >found some info on booting the machine, which I did successfully.. once. >I was able to get a directory listing and type a few files. The system >has RT-11 v4.00 with a runtime package in Dibol for general ledger, etc. >I halted the machine and tried to restart it again, only this time it >complains. Congrats on the acquisition... >The display I'm getting is.. > >TESTING MEMORY >0124.KW >START? Y >000010 >@ Sounds like either the boot board (if the CPU is an 11/23, it is probably a BDV11, if an 11/23+, it has the BDV-style boot roms), or the device interface. Since it is supposed to have RLs, try typing 'DL0' at the 'Start?' prompt. If this doesn't work, then I would suspect the RLV interface... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mbg at world.std.com Mon Dec 13 12:42:51 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Help Message-ID: <199912131842.NAA03923@world.std.com> >The "halt" switch is set. This causes the system to pop into ODT rather >than to run programs. On the 11/23 there are _two_ halt switches, one on >the front of the box and one on the BDV11 boot/terminator board. I'm >guessing that you switched on, or the other, or both somehow. I would not suspect this since the system actually ran the ROM code far enough to prompt 'Start?'... If it were in the halt position, you wouldn't even get this much... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | --------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From kla at helios.augustana.edu Mon Dec 13 13:17:34 1999 From: kla at helios.augustana.edu (Kevin L. Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Assembly docs for Zenith/Heathkit Z-150 PC compatible ?? Message-ID: I have my original Zenith (ZDS) Z-150 computer, which was their answer to the IBM 8088/86 PC. This was also offered as a kit from Heathkit (as the H-150?) in the mid-1980s. My Z-150 currently won't start up, with lights stopping in the BIOS PROM startup sequence. Does anyone have the equivalent Heathkit assembly manual(s) and drawings for this system? Or are there similar systems around that board swapping might be possible? What is somewhat unique about the Z-150 is that there is no motherboard as such (unlike all the PCs and Wintel systems), just an ISA bus and the CPU on its own board. A idea similar to mini- and bigger computers, but alas, except for the a few exceptions such as S-100 systems and the Apple-II, an approach that never caught on in the so-called "PC" series that have dominated since the mid-1980s.... Just curious. Thanks. Regards, Kevin Anderson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Kevin L. Anderson Ph.D., Geography Department, Augustana College Rock Island, Illinois 61201-2296, USA phone: (309) 794-7325 e-mail: kla@helios.augustana.edu -or- gganderson@augustana.edu * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Opinions expressed here are my own and do not represent the administration of Augustana College. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 13 14:30:14 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991211123248.00956270@127.0.0.1> References: <19991210184750.23146.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <199912131931.UAA21890@mail2.siemens.de> > Rumor has it that Eric Smith may have mentioned these words: > >>> Still a reliable surplus vendor, incidentally: > >>> http://www.cadigital.com/ > >>> Perhaps the best-known NOS selection of 8" floppy drives anywhere in the > >>> world, as well as 8" media and cleaning kits. > >> Some of the prices don't look like they have been updated in a decade > >> though, 2 MB ram simms for $59 etc. > >With most surplus vendors, I've had very good luck with bargaining > >on items having obviously outdated posted prices. But make a reasonable > >offer, not a really lowball one, or they'll not bother to talk to you. > Or a quantity offer... If you buy 3 at a reasonable offer instead of just > 1, they're much more willing to take the deal. > Maybe if anyone wants a Dragon we should coordinate it here first, then > just make a bulk purchase?!?!? Well, I volounteer (sp?), since I'm about to buy some. Any wishes ? Gruss H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From jpero at cgocable.net Mon Dec 13 08:40:50 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Assembly docs for Zenith/Heathkit Z-150 PC compatible ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199912131939.OAA13026@admin.cgocable.net> > Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 13:17:34 -0600 (CST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: "Kevin L. Anderson" > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Assembly docs for Zenith/Heathkit Z-150 PC compatible ?? > I have my original Zenith (ZDS) Z-150 computer, which was their > answer to the IBM 8088/86 PC. This was also offered as a kit > from Heathkit (as the H-150?) in the mid-1980s. > > My Z-150 currently won't start up, with lights stopping in the BIOS PROM > startup sequence. Does anyone have the equivalent Heathkit assembly > manual(s) and drawings for this system? Or are there similar systems > around that board swapping might be possible? Okay, Do you know that your processor card has one row of LEDs that goes out one by one while POST tests and passes certain parts, when successful before booting off OSes last LED is the power LED stay lit. If POST find problems it will stop and the last LED will be the stay lit to point to the problem areas. The machine also have diagnostic bios built in. To get in do alt+ctrl+ins and at the prompt type in ? or help I think. This zenith used cheap sockets they fail very often. When troubleshooting, always strip machine to minimum configuration first. Wizard From arfonrg at texas.net Mon Dec 13 13:44:57 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Cadigital & 8" drives (was: Re: ) In-Reply-To: <199912131931.UAA21890@mail2.siemens.de> References: <3.0.1.32.19991211123248.00956270@127.0.0.1> <19991210184750.23146.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991213134457.00938ec0@207.207.0.212> I need a Shugart 800/801 (or two)... Is this what people are looking to bulk buy? A >> >>> Still a reliable surplus vendor, incidentally: >> >>> http://www.cadigital.com/ >> >>> Perhaps the best-known NOS selection of 8" floppy drives anywhere in the >> >>> world, as well as 8" media and cleaning kits. >> >> Some of the prices don't look like they have been updated in a decade >> >> though, 2 MB ram simms for $59 etc. > >> >With most surplus vendors, I've had very good luck with bargaining >> >on items having obviously outdated posted prices. But make a reasonable >> >offer, not a really lowball one, or they'll not bother to talk to you. > >> Or a quantity offer... If you buy 3 at a reasonable offer instead of just >> 1, they're much more willing to take the deal. > >> Maybe if anyone wants a Dragon we should coordinate it here first, then >> just make a bulk purchase?!?!? > >Well, I volounteer (sp?), since I'm about to buy some. >Any wishes ? ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From steverob at hotoffice.com Mon Dec 13 14:28:54 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Nova Rescue/Prime 2550 Message-ID: <01BF457E.C46F2F40.steverob@hotoffice.com> On Saturday, December 11, 1999 8:51 PM, Chris Kennedy [SMTP:chris@mainecoon.com] wrote: > I'm pleased to report that thanks to the efforts of Marvin, > three DG Nova fours, two expansion chassis, three disks > (including two DG SMD drives) and three tape drives were > saved from heading to scrapsville. Details (and a few photos) > can be found at http://www.mainecoon.com/rescue.html. > > There's also a bit about the Pr1me 2550 I purchased from > John as well... :-) > > best, > Chris > > -- > Chris Kennedy > chris@mainecoon.com > http://www.mainecoon.com > PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 Chris, I have a complete set of DOCS for the 2550 (most still in the shrink wrap). If you need them, we might be able to strike a deal... Steve Robertson - From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Mon Dec 13 14:28:46 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey l Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <19991213.142846.163.0.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:44:04 -0700 "Richard Erlacher" writes: > "real" work. HP got into CAE in '88 when they bought Apollo, and announced > it was getting out in '91, leaving everyone who'd bought their > hardware/software in the lurch. Meanwhile, Martin promoted and/or paid > bonuses to the fools who had bought in to the previously unheard-of and > inexperienced CAE/CAD vendor HP turned out to be. > > Dick So it *really* is true then: 'Nobody ever got fired for buying HP'. Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 13 14:43:50 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Info on Canadian S-100 Computer Message-ID: I have an inquiry from a chap who purchased an Exceltronics S-100 kit, a Canadian make, in about 1982. He still has the machine and would like to resurrect it, but has lost the system disk over the years. Does anyone have any information on this critter or, better yet, a system disk for it? Thanks. - don From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Dec 13 15:57:38 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Comparison of system specs. - how far have we developed? In-Reply-To: <3851D205.4C3CAE03@idirect.com> References: <38514A9F.CF0567AC@mse.ufl.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991213155738.02d8ba10@pc> At 11:24 PM 12/10/99 -0500, Jerome Fine wrote: >>Drew Amery wrote: >> to do this holiday season, I challenge someone to port RT-11 to the Palm >> handhelds. > >Which OS runs on the Palm handhelds? Possibly W95/W98 or even the >old DOS/Win 3.1? I will take the challenge in that case. Care to bet how >long it will take? You'd think it would be easiest to port CP/M 68K to the Pilot, and the C source is out there. Do you have a way to convert RT-11's source to 68K assembler? At 08:40 PM 12/10/99 -0800, healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: >Got to >admit I'm wondering if it's possible to put a PDP-11 emulator on one of >them. The big problem I see is console emulation. I think that's the least of your troubles. They ported a small Linux to Palm, and even to a Nintendo, where characters were entered by wiggling the joystick and pressing the fire button. - John From cfandt at netsync.net Mon Dec 13 16:13:55 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Assembly docs for Zenith/Heathkit Z-150 PC compatible ?? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19991213160731.00ab28b0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 01:17 PM 12/13/99 -0600, Kevin L. Anderson said something like: >I have my original Zenith (ZDS) Z-150 computer, which was their >answer to the IBM 8088/86 PC. This was also offered as a kit >from Heathkit (as the H-150?) in the mid-1980s. > >My Z-150 currently won't start up, with lights stopping in the BIOS PROM >startup sequence. Does anyone have the equivalent Heathkit assembly >manual(s) and drawings for this system? Or are there similar systems >around that board swapping might be possible? Hi Kevin, I don't have technical manuals for the 150's like I do for my earlier 8-bit Heath machines (H-8 & H-89). Perhaps another listmember has one to refer to (Tony?). Chips were socketed on these machines so try carefully pressing them into their sockets in case there is an intermittent connection causing the problem. Place the board onto an antistatic bag upon a firm padded surface which will help you do this. What's the status of those lights (the LEDs on the CPU board)? Have an Operating Manual? I think I recall something about interpreting the LEDs in that book. I've got one somewhere up in the library. I've got a big heap of 150's down in the back garage which I am planning to: (A) Hammer together working systems and maybe sell for cheeeeep, (B) provide parts for folks like you, or (C) scrap that which is not desired/useable. Methinks (C) is the ultimate fate of most of the pile nowadays, (A) is somewhat folly, butcha never know ;-) Seems item (B) is just for you. Email me. I think there's at least 15 Z-150 boxen I've got -all from work when we moved up to 386/486 and later machines. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From mfhoneycutt at earthlink.net Mon Dec 13 17:03:16 1999 From: mfhoneycutt at earthlink.net (Mark Honeycutt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Help Message-ID: <01ff01bf45c6$d6bfd300$6402a8c0@laptop.home.net> START? DL0 worked great! Many thanks for the lended hand. -----Original Message----- From: Megan To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 2:10 PM Subject: Re: PDP 11/23 Help > >>I just picked up a PDP 11/23 in excellent condition from an accountant >>that was going to dispose of it. It has two RL02 drives and 10 disk >>packs. My background in DEC stuff is only VMS, so I checked around and >>found some info on booting the machine, which I did successfully.. once. >>I was able to get a directory listing and type a few files. The system >>has RT-11 v4.00 with a runtime package in Dibol for general ledger, etc. >>I halted the machine and tried to restart it again, only this time it >>complains. > >Congrats on the acquisition... > >>The display I'm getting is.. >> >>TESTING MEMORY >>0124.KW >>START? Y >>000010 >>@ > >Sounds like either the boot board (if the CPU is an 11/23, it is >probably a BDV11, if an 11/23+, it has the BDV-style boot roms), or >the device interface. > >Since it is supposed to have RLs, try typing 'DL0' at the 'Start?' >prompt. If this doesn't work, then I would suspect the RLV >interface... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer > >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ >| Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | >| Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | >| Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | >| 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | >| Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | >| (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | >+--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Dec 13 17:29:38 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Needed: VT100 card for IBM 3151 Message-ID: <19991213172938.G12352@mrbill.net> I've got a mint-condition (looks brand new) IBM 3151 amber terminal that I'm in need of the VT100/ANSI emulation card for, or I need to find someone who will swap me an equivalent dumb terminal that does VT100/ANSI for it... Thanks. Bill -- Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using Windows NT for mission-critical applications." -- What Yoda *meant* to say From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Dec 13 17:33:50 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Needed: VT100 card for IBM 3151 In-Reply-To: <19991213172938.G12352@mrbill.net> References: <19991213172938.G12352@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <19991213173350.H12352@mrbill.net> On Mon, Dec 13, 1999 at 05:29:38PM -0600, Bill Bradford wrote: > I've got a mint-condition (looks brand new) IBM 3151 amber terminal that > I'm in need of the VT100/ANSI emulation card for, or I need to find someone > who will swap me an equivalent dumb terminal that does VT100/ANSI for it... BTW, I beleive this is called the "IBM/DEC Connectivity Cartridge", and resembles a PCMCIA card, goes into a slot on the back of the terminal. Bill -- Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using Windows NT for mission-critical applications." -- What Yoda *meant* to say From mbg at world.std.com Mon Dec 13 17:39:33 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: PDP 11/23 Help Message-ID: <199912132339.SAA04063@world.std.com> >START? DL0 worked great! Many thanks for the lended hand. Great... glad to help... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 13 18:11:44 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Cadigital & 8" drives (was: Re: ) Message-ID: <000c01bf45c7$cefa93c0$0400c0a8@winbook> I've essentially given away (for $5 a crack) a couple of dozen Shugart and Siemens Single-Sided drives after aligning and otherwise cleaning and repairing the things that seemed necessary. When I offered these drives here, last June, there were no takers. Apparently the packing and shipping costs, which I'd had quoted for me at Mailboxes, etc, were too much for the folks on the list. It's too late now, of course. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Gryffydd To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 12:49 PM Subject: Cadigital & 8" drives (was: Re: ) >I need a Shugart 800/801 (or two)... Is this what people are looking to >bulk buy? > >A > >>> >>> Still a reliable surplus vendor, incidentally: >>> >>> http://www.cadigital.com/ >>> >>> Perhaps the best-known NOS selection of 8" floppy drives anywhere in >the >>> >>> world, as well as 8" media and cleaning kits. >>> >> Some of the prices don't look like they have been updated in a decade >>> >> though, 2 MB ram simms for $59 etc. >> >>> >With most surplus vendors, I've had very good luck with bargaining >>> >on items having obviously outdated posted prices. But make a reasonable >>> >offer, not a really lowball one, or they'll not bother to talk to you. >> >>> Or a quantity offer... If you buy 3 at a reasonable offer instead of just >>> 1, they're much more willing to take the deal. >> >>> Maybe if anyone wants a Dragon we should coordinate it here first, then >>> just make a bulk purchase?!?!? >> >>Well, I volounteer (sp?), since I'm about to buy some. >>Any wishes ? > >---------------------------------------- > Tired of Micro$oft??? > > Move up to a REAL OS... >######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # >#####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## >####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### >###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### >##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### ># ###### > ("LINUX" for those of you > without fixed-width fonts) >---------------------------------------- >Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com > >Slackware Mailing List: >http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 13 18:22:46 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) Message-ID: <001101bf45c9$58eaf740$0400c0a8@winbook> Worse yet, they were rewarded! What was really crazy was that I could do all the stuff I needed done on my desktop PC, but the department madated that the HP system be used, which meant that although my design was complete and the boards sent out for wirewrap and returned, tested, etc, while the first-level simulations are still (well the project was cut short ...) in day-for-day slip (for over 10 years now) because HP's simulation model libraries used the same filenames, yet their content was mixed, i.e. different simulation timing resolutions, etc. They had no models for currrent generation (then) parts, so each component had to be ordered separately at HUGE cost. In the time it took the thing to simuate a single flip-flop, I could walk the considerable distance to my office, start up my PC-XT, ( I had to bring my own because the company preferred MAC's, for which no useful software existed) load the software and the files and run and subsequently print my simulation, and still had time to walk back to my diligently running $50K workstation and drink a cup of coffee waiting for it to finish the simulation. A typical simulation that took 20 seocnds on my PC-XT took 15-30 minutes on the HP, and that was only in the rare instance when everything worked. During the year that these guys made their trade study, they didn't consider machines from Mentor, Daisy, or Cadnetix, which were the three leaders in the industry at the time. In fact, neither of them had even heard of those three. Now, I think they should have been fired, not paid multiple tens of K-bucks in "performance awards" for this boondoggle. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey l Kaneko To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 1:37 PM Subject: Re: Hewlett Packard A2094 Monitor (Standard RGB ?) > > >On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 08:44:04 -0700 "Richard Erlacher" >writes: >> "real" work. HP got into CAE in '88 when they bought Apollo, and >announced >> it was getting out in '91, leaving everyone who'd bought their >> hardware/software in the lurch. Meanwhile, Martin promoted and/or paid >> bonuses to the fools who had bought in to the previously unheard-of and >> inexperienced CAE/CAD vendor HP turned out to be. >> >> Dick > >So it *really* is true then: 'Nobody ever got fired for buying HP'. > > >Jeff > > >___________________________________________________________________ >Why pay more to get Web access? >Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! >Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From bobstek at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 13 18:36:25 1999 From: bobstek at ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform In-Reply-To: <000c01bf45c7$cefa93c0$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: Dick (or anyone else) - Would you have the jumper settings (default positions, definitions, etc.) for a Shugart 860? DS0-3 I can figure out. But the rest... I have just added 2 8"ers to my AT via a Compaticard. I have them working as MS-DOS drives D: and E: just fine, but when I use Uniform it always accesses the 360K B: drive instead of the 8". I've got the Compaticard manual, set up the board as the secondary, tertiary, and quartiary(?) controller, tried EVERY combination of drive #'s (0-15), twisted and straight cables, different cable combo's, different DS's on the drives, and it STILL won't do anything but try to access the B: drive (when it accesses anything at all) when I use Uniform to access the F:(CP/M) drive. I even tried ASSIGNing the B: drive. So close but yet so far.... Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 13 19:08:28 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:16 2005 Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform Message-ID: <000901bf45cf$bb889320$0400c0a8@winbook> Oh, I forgot one thing . . . I DO have the manual for the 860 series drives, but it's kind-of hard to get at for the holidays, since I'm being induced to put away my toys. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bob Stek To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 5:43 PM Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform >Dick (or anyone else) - > >Would you have the jumper settings (default positions, definitions, etc.) >for a Shugart 860? DS0-3 I can figure out. But the rest... > >I have just added 2 8"ers to my AT via a Compaticard. I have them working >as MS-DOS drives D: and E: just fine, but when I use Uniform it always >accesses the 360K B: drive instead of the 8". I've got the Compaticard >manual, set up the board as the secondary, tertiary, and quartiary(?) >controller, tried EVERY combination of drive #'s (0-15), twisted and >straight cables, different cable combo's, different DS's on the drives, and >it STILL won't do anything but try to access the B: drive (when it accesses >anything at all) when I use Uniform to access the F:(CP/M) drive. I even >tried ASSIGNing the B: drive. > >So close but yet so far.... > >Bob Stek >bobstek@ix.netcom.com >Saver of Lost SOLs > > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 13 19:07:19 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform Message-ID: <000601bf45cf$92bd75a0$0400c0a8@winbook> I'm not as "into" the CompatiCard, which, by the way, I just recently sold for a pretty good price, as I might be, but I do recall that there was jumpering information in the manual. What you nave to do is figure out what the equivalent jumpering for an SA850 would have been. I don't think there was 850-specific information, but as I recall, the manual didn't suggest one could use more than one 8" drive, either. There's information on the MicroSolutions web site, as I'm told. Perhaps they can help you. regards, Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bob Stek To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 13, 1999 5:43 PM Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform >Dick (or anyone else) - > >Would you have the jumper settings (default positions, definitions, etc.) >for a Shugart 860? DS0-3 I can figure out. But the rest... > >I have just added 2 8"ers to my AT via a Compaticard. I have them working >as MS-DOS drives D: and E: just fine, but when I use Uniform it always >accesses the 360K B: drive instead of the 8". I've got the Compaticard >manual, set up the board as the secondary, tertiary, and quartiary(?) >controller, tried EVERY combination of drive #'s (0-15), twisted and >straight cables, different cable combo's, different DS's on the drives, and >it STILL won't do anything but try to access the B: drive (when it accesses >anything at all) when I use Uniform to access the F:(CP/M) drive. I even >tried ASSIGNing the B: drive. > >So close but yet so far.... > >Bob Stek >bobstek@ix.netcom.com >Saver of Lost SOLs > > From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Dec 13 21:00:54 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: FT: Portmaster IRX Message-ID: <19991213210054.E16048@mrbill.net> I've got a Livingston Portmaster IRX terminal server / router for trade for something interesting of equal or lesser value ($150 or so) if anybody's interested... mail me for more details. -- Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using Windows NT for mission-critical applications." -- What Yoda *meant* to say From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Dec 13 21:01:38 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Comparison of system specs. - how far have we developed? References: <38514A9F.CF0567AC@mse.ufl.edu> <3.0.5.32.19991213155738.02d8ba10@pc> Message-ID: <3855B312.BCC8F9CA@idirect.com> >John Foust wrote: > Do you have a way to convert RT-11's source to 68K assembler? Jerome Fine replies: I have at least 2 years (maybe 4) of bug fixes and enhancements that I want to make to RT-11, so while such a conversion would be very interesting (and also still illegal), I will pass for the time being. I will post a list of features that I would like to see for V5.8 of RT-11 if anyone is interested. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From spicer at computerhistory.org Mon Dec 13 22:28:50 1999 From: spicer at computerhistory.org (Dag Spicer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Info on Canadian S-100 Computer In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991213202850.00c2d7e0@mail.netcare.com> I remember this company (I think). They were on College Street, at Spadina. I assume it was a CP/M machine? d. At 12:43 PM 12/13/99 -0800, you wrote: > >I have an inquiry from a chap who purchased an Exceltronics S-100 kit, a >Canadian make, in about 1982. He still has the machine and would like >to resurrect it, but has lost the system disk over the years. > >Does anyone have any information on this critter or, better yet, a >system disk for it? > >Thanks. > > - don > > > > -- Dag Spicer Curator & Manager of Historical Collections Editorial Board, IEEE Annals of the History of Computing The Computer Museum History Center Building T12-A NASA Ames Research Center Mountain View, CA 94035 Tel: +1 650 604 2578 Fax: +1 650 604 2594 E-m: spicer@computerhistory.org WWW: http://www.computerhistory.org PGP: 15E31235 (E6ECDF74 349D1667 260759AD 7D04C178) S/V 516T Read about The Computer Museum History Center in the November issue of WIRED magazine! See "The Computer Hall of Fame - Modern Art." pp. 276 - 299. From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 13 23:26:37 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Info on Canadian S-100 Computer In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991213202850.00c2d7e0@mail.netcare.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Dag Spicer wrote: > I remember this company (I think). They were on College Street, at > Spadina. I assume it was a CP/M machine? Yes it was. - don > d. > > At 12:43 PM 12/13/99 -0800, you wrote: > > > >I have an inquiry from a chap who purchased an Exceltronics S-100 kit, a > >Canadian make, in about 1982. He still has the machine and would like > >to resurrect it, but has lost the system disk over the years. > > > >Does anyone have any information on this critter or, better yet, a > >system disk for it? > > > >Thanks. > > > > - don > > > > > > > > > -- > Dag Spicer > Curator & Manager of Historical Collections > Editorial Board, IEEE Annals of the History of Computing > The Computer Museum History Center > Building T12-A > NASA Ames Research Center > Mountain View, CA 94035 > > Tel: +1 650 604 2578 > Fax: +1 650 604 2594 > E-m: spicer@computerhistory.org > WWW: http://www.computerhistory.org > > PGP: 15E31235 (E6ECDF74 349D1667 260759AD > 7D04C178) > > S/V 516T > > Read about The Computer Museum History Center in the > November issue of WIRED magazine! See "The Computer > Hall of Fame - Modern Art." pp. 276 - 299. > From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 13 23:36:41 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Bob Stek wrote: > Dick (or anyone else) - > > Would you have the jumper settings (default positions, definitions, etc.) > for a Shugart 860? DS0-3 I can figure out. But the rest... > > I have just added 2 8"ers to my AT via a Compaticard. I have them working > as MS-DOS drives D: and E: just fine, but when I use Uniform it always > accesses the 360K B: drive instead of the 8". I've got the Compaticard > manual, set up the board as the secondary, tertiary, and quartiary(?) > controller, tried EVERY combination of drive #'s (0-15), twisted and > straight cables, different cable combo's, different DS's on the drives, and > it STILL won't do anything but try to access the B: drive (when it accesses > anything at all) when I use Uniform to access the F:(CP/M) drive. I even > tried ASSIGNing the B: drive. Bob, UniForm will only permit you to identify/select a single copy of each type drive - that is 350k, 1.2mb, 3.5" (either 720k or 1.44mb) and 8". I assume that you used Uinstall to make that identification. About the only way that I can think of that you could slip in a second 8" drive would be to identify it as a 1.2mb drive - assuming that you do not have one. I might note that 22Disk will permit you to use both 8" drives. - don > So close but yet so far.... > > Bob Stek > bobstek@ix.netcom.com > Saver of Lost SOLs > > > From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 14 00:06:23 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Don Maslin wrote: > > > On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Bob Stek wrote: > > > Dick (or anyone else) - > > > > Would you have the jumper settings (default positions, definitions, etc.) > > for a Shugart 860? DS0-3 I can figure out. But the rest... > > > > I have just added 2 8"ers to my AT via a Compaticard. I have them working > > as MS-DOS drives D: and E: just fine, but when I use Uniform it always > > accesses the 360K B: drive instead of the 8". I've got the Compaticard > > manual, set up the board as the secondary, tertiary, and quartiary(?) > > controller, tried EVERY combination of drive #'s (0-15), twisted and > > straight cables, different cable combo's, different DS's on the drives, and > > it STILL won't do anything but try to access the B: drive (when it accesses > > anything at all) when I use Uniform to access the F:(CP/M) drive. I even > > tried ASSIGNing the B: drive. > > Bob, UniForm will only permit you to identify/select a single copy of > each type drive - that is 350k, 1.2mb, 3.5" (either 720k or 1.44mb) and ^ make that 360k :-( - don > 8". I assume that you used Uinstall to make that identification. About > the only way that I can think of that you could slip in a second 8" > drive would be to identify it as a 1.2mb drive - assuming that you do > not have one. > > I might note that 22Disk will permit you to use both 8" drives. > > - don > > > So close but yet so far.... > > > > Bob Stek > > bobstek@ix.netcom.com > > Saver of Lost SOLs > > > > > > > > From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 14 00:13:08 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Osborne Vixen Hard Drive (fwd) Message-ID: Anyone interested reply direct to originator, please. - don ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1999 19:39:14 -0600 From: kathy sbell To: donm@cts.com Subject: Osborne Vixen Hard Drive Anyone interested in a Trantor Westwind Hard Disk made exclusively for the Osborne Vixen CP/M computer??? Plus lots of CP/M software available! Will take best offer! e-mail today to robkathy1@juno.com. -Robert ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Dec 14 00:45:49 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Warehouse cleaning - DEC and other stuff available Message-ID: <0.60b55832.2587419d@aol.com> I am helping a friend clean his warehouse. Following is stuff of interest that is available for sale. I am giving the list first chance before it gets offered on epay or parted out. Since mail gets lost in the many postings on the list please reply to me at whoagiii@aol.com. Sun 411 SCSI-2 tape drive. Three Hitachi CDR-1750s SCSI CD-ROM in external cases. There is a pair of Micro Vax IIs. 1) BA23 rack mount DH 630 Q2 -D2 wi M7606 AF(CPU), 2X M7609 AH(8 meg ram), M3104(DHV11), M7516 and a M7546 (TK50), no hard drive. Rough condition as-is 2) BA 123 - 630 QB-A2 wi M7606 H2(CPU), M7608 B2(RAM), M9047, M7504A(DEQNA), M3104 CL(DHV11), M7555 D1(RQDX3), M7546 F1(TK50), M7651(DRV11) anda Sigma ESDI controller (RQD11 DC). I think there is a clearpoint memory card too.There are 2 RD53s and one Maxtor 4380 380 meg ESDI drive. As-is There are a pair of BA-350s with TZ 87 DLT III tape drives. One sports an "n" behind the TX 87. There are a pair of R400Xs each with a TF 85 DLT tape drive. One has 4 RF31 disk drives and the other had 3 RF31 drives. They each have a M7493 I/O card. Two KY11C console switch panels. A VXT 2000+ (VX20A-EA) Vaxstation wi 18 meg Ram and 4 meg 8 plane low res graphics. TK 50Z GA in an external case, SCSI? Infoserver 150 DEC Cards - more will show up later A005 Relays A007 M6850 Flip flop out M8265 CPU M8266 CPU M8090 ICS Controller M7228 KW11P Real time clock W7430 16 bit solid state contact If anyone is interested please contact me at whoagiii@aol.com From bobstek at ix.netcom.com Tue Dec 14 05:21:22 1999 From: bobstek at ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Don Maslin Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 12:37 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform Bob, UniForm will only permit you to identify/select a single copy of each type drive - that is 350k, 1.2mb, 3.5" (either 720k or 1.44mb) and 8". I assume that you used Uinstall to make that identification. About the only way that I can think of that you could slip in a second 8" drive would be to identify it as a 1.2mb drive - assuming that you do not have one. I might note that 22Disk will permit you to use both 8" drives. - don The problem isn't that I want two CP/M drives. It is that I can't access even one! The Compaticard seems to have no problem attaching the two 8"-ers as MS-DOS drives; I can access them as drives D: and E: just fine. When I run Uniform and choose an 8" CP/M format, it tells me that drive F: is now my CP/M drive. If I then do a DIR of F:, my drive B: activity light comes on and gives me an error message. Even though I have the Compaticard jumpered as the quartiary controller (I/O ports 3e0-3e7) Uniform accesses drive #2 on the primary controller as drive F: I suppose that I can disable the second 8" drive and see what happens. I will try 22disk as well (although that's only to be pragmatic - I want to know why the @#%$@#^& thing is acting the way it does!) Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs From SeaMasterZ at aol.com Tue Dec 14 08:15:10 1999 From: SeaMasterZ at aol.com (SeaMasterZ@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard 3265 question Message-ID: <0.5f775a18.2587aaee@aol.com> Hi I realize this is for older computers but I have a question concerning a newer computer ... I have a HP Pavilion with win 95 and a "suspend" feature ... the computer is very sensitive to mouse movement, which "wakes the computer up" ... is there a way to have the Suspend feature be interrupted only by a keyboard entry, basically turning the mouse movement feature off? I don't want to abuse the list, but this is really a pain, sometimes I find myself away for a while inadvertently, and the computer is grinding away ... also, should an idle computer have massive amounts of drive activity? I have powertools for AOL and AOL on, and the drive can suddenly spend 5 minutes grinding away, no apparent reason ... system resources drop into the 30's and 20's which make me wonder about a virus but Dr Solomon came up clean. Thanks for any info Ray Cook SeaMasterZ@AOL.COM PS - Right now I have Microsoft Word, Netscape AOL and Powertools open, and the system resources are at 26% ... with 64 MB of SDRAM, is this normal? From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 14 12:12:24 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard 3265 question In-Reply-To: <0.5f775a18.2587aaee@aol.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991214121224.3c678286@mailhost.intellistar.net> Ray, You should be able to control that in your BIOS settings. I have an Award BIOS in my PC clone and I can tell it to "wake-up" based on mouse movement, keyboard input, drive activity, screen activity, port activity, etc. >powertools for AOL and AOL on, and the drive can suddenly spend 5 minutes >grinding away, no apparent reason ... That's Windows for you! Mine does the same thing. Win 3.1 and no viruses. Joe At 09:15 AM 12/14/99 EST, you wrote: >Hi >I realize this is for older computers but I have a question concerning a >newer computer ... I have a HP Pavilion with win 95 and a "suspend" feature >... the computer is very sensitive to mouse movement, which "wakes the >computer up" ... is there a way to have the Suspend feature be interrupted >only by a keyboard entry, basically turning the mouse movement feature off? >I don't want to abuse the list, but this is really a pain, sometimes I find >myself away for a while inadvertently, and the computer is grinding away ... >also, should an idle computer have massive amounts of drive activity? I have >powertools for AOL and AOL on, and the drive can suddenly spend 5 minutes >grinding away, no apparent reason ... system resources drop into the 30's and >20's which make me wonder about a virus but Dr Solomon came up clean. Thanks >for any info >Ray Cook >SeaMasterZ@AOL.COM >PS - Right now I have Microsoft Word, > Netscape AOL and Powertools open, and the >system resources are at 26% ... with >64 MB of SDRAM, is this normal? > From jallain at databaseamerica.com Tue Dec 14 10:30:43 1999 From: jallain at databaseamerica.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: eWanted: Cray XMP In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991214121224.3c678286@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <000101bf4650$91d33810$0e0301ac@dba00802.databaseamerica.com> This isn't my listing, but I thought the listers might find this interesting: Wanted: A Complete Cray XMP Supercomputer in working order. $200.00 Arlington, TX 49 Day(s) see: http://www.ewanted.com/members/itemlisting.cfm?id=10246734 I just heard of eWanted on the radio this morning. It's positioned to be an eBay starting with the buyer instead of the seller. Things just get wilder and wilder on this Internet thing. John A. From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Dec 14 10:39:51 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard 3265 question In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991214121224.3c678286@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: > >grinding away, no apparent reason ... > > That's Windows for you! Mine does the same thing. Win 3.1 and no viruses. This is a side effect of OSA and findfast both of wich are associated with MSword, Office9x and friends. They can be dispensed with. I take them out of the "Startup" folder so they are not run at startup. For the W95 system here (PII-400) this gets rid of the 2minutes of hyperactivity. The mouse things is a APM/Green function at the bios level. You can selectively turn off the activating interrupts, there is no "sensitivity" level though and by turning it off the mouse or whatever that wake up is not active. I normally turn off APM (advanced power management) as I prefer to see better response time from the system. Leave it on for the tube, they seem to last longer then. Allison From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 14 10:35:42 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991214103542.0244cdb0@pc> At 09:36 PM 12/13/99 -0800, Don Maslin wrote: >On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Bob Stek wrote: >> Dick (or anyone else) - >> >> Would you have the jumper settings (default positions, definitions, etc.) >> for a Shugart 860? DS0-3 I can figure out. But the rest... has an online PDF version of the Shugart 801 manual, if that might help... - John From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 14 10:55:44 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform Message-ID: <000a01bf4654$27314200$0400c0a8@winbook> Aside from removing one of the 8" drives from the daisy-chain, the only thing I can recommend is to look very carefully at the way in which each signal is used on the cable. My own recollection of the cabling details as applicable to 8" drives is that the Compaticard really doesn't want you to have more than one of them. That, in fact, is the reason why I owned one for ten years and didn't use it. If you look at the combination of signals used on the CompatiCard and then look at how the various drive types will interpret them, that should help you to understand how the card is selecting the "wrong" drive. As far as jumpering your drives, I'd suggest you use the most restrictive set of qualifiers that you can come up with, in order to avoid ambiguous selects. The PC software is geared to using the signals on the cable in a "strange" way due to the cute fix they (IBM) thought up for their internaly twisted cable. IIRC, the cable was twisted such that each drive will see the "motor on" signal as DS1 (based on numbering from 0) . The '860's have a "motor-on" signal as well, though it shouldn't be used as it is in the PC-style environment. The drives need to be set up such that their activity LED only comes on when the drive is selected AND ready. That way, you will have an external indicator that the READY signal is valid on the cable. The PC doesn't use this as a ready, since some mini-drives don't generate it correctly, but it may help you to see what's actually going on. I don't suggest that you change the jumpering on the 5-1/4 or 3-1/2" drives because they tend to vary too much. If they work, that's enough to contend with for now. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Bob Stek To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 4:28 AM Subject: RE: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform >-----Original Message----- >From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu >[mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Don Maslin >Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 12:37 AM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: Re: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform > >Bob, UniForm will only permit you to identify/select a single copy of >each type drive - that is 350k, 1.2mb, 3.5" (either 720k or 1.44mb) and >8". I assume that you used Uinstall to make that identification. About >the only way that I can think of that you could slip in a second 8" >drive would be to identify it as a 1.2mb drive - assuming that you do >not have one. > >I might note that 22Disk will permit you to use both 8" drives. > > - don > >The problem isn't that I want two CP/M drives. It is that I can't access >even one! The Compaticard seems to have no problem attaching the two 8"-ers >as MS-DOS drives; I can access them as drives D: and E: just fine. When I >run Uniform and choose an 8" CP/M format, it tells me that drive F: is now >my CP/M drive. If I then do a DIR of F:, my drive B: activity light comes >on and gives me an error message. Even though I have the Compaticard >jumpered as the quartiary controller (I/O ports 3e0-3e7) Uniform accesses >drive #2 on the primary controller as drive F: > >I suppose that I can disable the second 8" drive and see what happens. I >will try 22disk as well (although that's only to be pragmatic - I want to >know why the @#%$@#^& thing is acting the way it does!) > > >Bob Stek >bobstek@ix.netcom.com >Saver of Lost SOLs > From edick at idcomm.com Tue Dec 14 11:04:31 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform Message-ID: <001501bf4655$4a6ec0c0$0400c0a8@winbook> If the situation with the TANDON slimlines is any hint at this I'd say it will only confuse one to look at the '801 spec to decide how to jumper an ;860. I'm milling around in the basement today, and will probably find the SHUGART spec's I have, including the jumpeing info for the ;860. It's just a matter of time. I have to find a place to put the stuff I've brought upstairs . . . . . . so my significant other can put up holiday decorations. I was raised by the Grinch himself and will probably never learn to enjoy Christmas except (MAYBE) for the period between Dec 24 and Jan12 (Epiphany) which was, in my one-time homeland, Germany, the traditional extent of that particular celebration. I'd vote for anihilation of any person place or thing making even an oblique reference to that celebration outside the time windown in which it belongs. I'm usually holiday'ed out by the tenth of November . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: John Foust To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 9:47 AM Subject: Re: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform >At 09:36 PM 12/13/99 -0800, Don Maslin wrote: >>On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Bob Stek wrote: >>> Dick (or anyone else) - >>> >>> Would you have the jumper settings (default positions, definitions, etc.) >>> for a Shugart 860? DS0-3 I can figure out. But the rest... > > has an online PDF >version of the Shugart 801 manual, if that might help... > >- John > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 14 12:29:22 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard 3265 question In-Reply-To: <0.5f775a18.2587aaee@aol.com> Message-ID: >newer computer ... I have a HP Pavilion with win 95 and a "suspend" feature >... the computer is very sensitive to mouse movement, which "wakes the They may not be old, but they "act" old. ;) Welcome to that special part of hell known as HP Pavillion ownership. (I have a "new" 6360 that in 3 months of working on it hasn't booted to windows for more than 30 minutes without a gpf.) CompUSA told me not to bother bringing it back, they had done all they could, but if I did get it fixed to tell them as they were still curious. Try a different mouse, maybe you have a mouse that likes to talk(noisey). See if it does the same thing with the mouse unplugged. It isn't very helpfull unless you really dig into the message base for a couple hours, but then there are a few nice tidbits of information. Its the HP pavillion users forum for your specific model on the HP web site. The HP hardware newsgroup also answers some questions some times. I don't know the names off hand, but I have heard of programs that monitor the computer and report all the "tasks" that are running, which should ID whatever is making your system busy. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Dec 14 13:36:40 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Qbus slot ordering? Message-ID: <4.1.19991214113610.03d92660@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Does anyone know if the CONFIGURE command in the VAX prom suggests slot ordering in its output? I ask because I'm trying to configure my uVAX with an additional 4 serial lines using either a DHV11 (get an extra 4) or a DZV11. In the former case no matter how I type in the devices, it organizes the DHV11 as the last thing on the bus. When I type use the DZV11 it puts it at the head of the list (even ahead of the DELQA which seems unusual) --Chuck From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 14 13:36:51 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Mini-history of '@' Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991214133651.02e9a740@pc> ================================================================ BOB METCALFE: "From the Ether" InfoWorld.com December 14, 1999 ================================================================ OPEN-SOURCE SENDMAIL WELCOMES ITS COMMERCIAL COUSIN, SENDMAIL INC. LET'S START this week with some "open source" operating systems history. This will bring us from last week's letter of the week, lambda, to this week's, atsign (@). Then let's check on how open-source sendmail software, which uses atsign, is being leveraged by modern capitalists at Sendmail Inc. Now look, we had open-source computer operating systems in the 1970s. They included MIT's Multics, MIT's Incompatible Timesharing System (ITS), Bolt Beranek and Newman's Tenex, and AT&T's Unix. For example, we ran Tenex at the Xerox Palo Alto Research Center on our two clones of Digital Equipment Corporation PDP-10 minicomputers. But when minicomputers took off in the 1980s, it wasn't Multics, ITS, Tenex, or Unix that won out by freely proliferating their sources. Modern capitalists at Digital won in minicomputers by selling binaries of their proprietary VMS operating system, developed by the same David Cutler soon to deliver binaries of Windows 2000 from Microsoft. If you're an old programmer, you probably used atsign (@) back then to indicate indirect addressing in assembly languages. You wrote @1234 to tell your computer not to use 1234 as an operand address, but rather to use the address found in location 1234. I wrote a lot of PDP-10 atsigns in my day, and so did one Ray Tomlinson, who was working with Tenex in 1970 on early versions of Internet host software. Tomlinson wrote the Tenex software that composed, delivered, and read the first Internet e-mail. He doesn't remember what the first e-mail said, but we all remember what ASCII character Tomlinson chose to separate his e-mail address from the name of the server where his mailbox was kept. He chose atsign (@). Ray@BBN meant Ray at BBN. Over the next decade, name and mail protocols changed, but atsign persisted. And one Eric Allman led the development of sendmail, to this day the Internet's primary (75 percent) mail server software. [...] MORE METCALFE For a complete archive of his InfoWorld columns visit http://www.infoworld.com/opinions/morefromtheether.html From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Dec 14 13:52:37 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Warehouse cleaning - DEC and other stuff available References: <0.60b55832.2587419d@aol.com> Message-ID: <3856A005.EDDD87F6@idirect.com> >Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > I am helping a friend clean his warehouse. Following is stuff of interest > that is available for sale. I am giving the list first chance before it gets > offered on epay or parted out. > > Since mail gets lost in the many postings on the list please reply to me at > whoagiii@aol.com. As I usually do forget as well, where are you located? From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Dec 14 14:15:46 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Switch settings on a DZV11? (M3106) Message-ID: <4.1.19991214121500.00a46ac0@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Does anyone have the switch settings for the DZV11? I need to set up the CSR and interrupt vector on one. --Chuck From Innfogra at aol.com Tue Dec 14 14:24:05 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Warehouse cleaning - location of DEC and other stuff Message-ID: <0.284ecc86.25880165@aol.com> The warehouse is located in Portland, Oregon, USA. We have experience in shipping anything anywhere, computer related that is. I have shipped drives, peripherals and even mainframes all over the US. We have shipped containers overseas. The US Postal Service Global Priority Mail works well for small stuff under 2 Kg and costs about $10 US. I have also shipped equipment overseas by USPS Air Mail but it is more expensive. Sorry for not including my location. Paxton Hoag From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue Dec 14 14:24:45 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Qbus slot ordering? Message-ID: <991214152445.246000d0@trailing-edge.com> >Does anyone know if the CONFIGURE command in the VAX prom suggests slot >ordering in its output? No, it doesn't. The order of CSR's doesn't have any bearing with what cards go where in the backplane. The order of cards in the backplane will depend on interrupt and DMA priority. Generally, peripherals that *will* lose data if they can't get serviced in time get put closest to the CPU. Examples here are serial lines, etc. Next come peripherals that will have to do a retry if they don't get serviced in time, but they will be able to do a retry. Tape drives, for example, might come here. Finally come devices where there's no real penalty for a retry, and maybe the peripheral doesn't care at all if the CPU takes its own sweet time in dealing with it. Something like a real-time clock would come in this category. >I ask because I'm trying to configure my uVAX with an additional 4 serial >lines using either a DHV11 (get an extra 4) or a DZV11. In the former case >no matter how I type in the devices, it organizes the DHV11 as the last >thing on the bus. When I type use the DZV11 it puts it at the head of the >list (even ahead of the DELQA which seems unusual) What you're seeing there are the CSR autoconfigure rules in action. They're largely historical; the DZV11 is based on the DZ11, which is an "old-time" async multiplexer, and comes early in the autoconfigure rules. The DHV11 came many years later, and comes much later in the autoconfigure rules. If you're interested in knowing where the autoconfigure rules come from and how they're applied, take a look at Alan Frisbie's DECUS presentation at http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/alans.csr.paper -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 14 15:27:42 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Bob Stek wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Don Maslin > Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 12:37 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform > > Bob, UniForm will only permit you to identify/select a single copy of > each type drive - that is 350k, 1.2mb, 3.5" (either 720k or 1.44mb) and > 8". I assume that you used Uinstall to make that identification. About > the only way that I can think of that you could slip in a second 8" > drive would be to identify it as a 1.2mb drive - assuming that you do > not have one. > > I might note that 22Disk will permit you to use both 8" drives. > > - don > > The problem isn't that I want two CP/M drives. It is that I can't access > even one! The Compaticard seems to have no problem attaching the two 8"-ers > as MS-DOS drives; I can access them as drives D: and E: just fine. When I > run Uniform and choose an 8" CP/M format, it tells me that drive F: is now > my CP/M drive. If I then do a DIR of F:, my drive B: activity light comes > on and gives me an error message. Even though I have the Compaticard > jumpered as the quartiary controller (I/O ports 3e0-3e7) Uniform accesses > drive #2 on the primary controller as drive F: Using UINSTALL, how do you have the 8" drive(s) identified? 3 or 4? Also, as a point of curiousity, which CompatiCard are you using- 1 or 4? > I suppose that I can disable the second 8" drive and see what happens. I May not be needed, but it will dis/prove a point. > will try 22disk as well (although that's only to be pragmatic - I want to > know why the @#%$@#^& thing is acting the way it does!) Me too! - don > > Bob Stek > bobstek@ix.netcom.com > Saver of Lost SOLs > > From SeaMasterZ at aol.com Tue Dec 14 15:28:58 1999 From: SeaMasterZ at aol.com (SeaMasterZ@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard 3265 question Message-ID: <0.45939af1.2588109a@aol.com> thanks for your reply, the puter is basically a good one, I feel that it must have some sort of a virus in it, there 2 AVI files called Mm2048 and Mm256 that are in my history and cookies and cache files, a few other files too, and cannot be deleted ... now, call me paranoid, but an 8k AVI file that cant be played is suspicious to me ... especially when Mm is 2000 in Roman-speak ... so this thing may transform itself into a very pricey doorstop soon, I guess Ill turn the date back to 1995 and hope that there aren't any incoming time stamps that set the date ... the atomic clock timesetters adjust the date too, so they are out. Anyway, thanks again, one of these days Ill know what I am doing with these things. RC From SeaMasterZ at aol.com Tue Dec 14 15:35:12 1999 From: SeaMasterZ at aol.com (SeaMasterZ@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard 3265 question Message-ID: <0.c72815f3.25881210@aol.com> Thanks for your reply, I am incredibly computer illiterate but am taking steps to remedy that, once finals are over I can focus on the puter more fully; try to get an understanding components involved. Ill look into the BIOS settings, I assume that they are user friendly on this machine. If not, I could always use another doorstop ... Ray From Mike-Noel at GCI.net Tue Dec 14 15:46:45 1999 From: Mike-Noel at GCI.net (Mike Noel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: wtb - ptc software for xmas... Message-ID: <3856BAC5.CF585DD2@GCI.net> My wife and daughter would like to get me "a software" for my "retrocomputer" this Christmas. I've a SOL-20 and would be interested in any of these PTC offerings: - Software Package #1 - Software Package #2 (aka Basic 5) - ALS-8 - Trek 80 - Gamepack #1 Obviously best on original cassette with original doc, but copies OK. If you have any of the above and would sell please contact my wife at Maria_Moya@legis.state.ak.us. Thanks... From chris at mainecoon.com Tue Dec 14 16:16:33 1999 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Nova Rescue/Prime 2550 References: <01BF457E.C46F2F40.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: <3856C1C1.7E7BA5D8@mainecoon.com> Hi Steve, Steve Robertson wrote: > I have a complete set of DOCS for the 2550 (most still in the shrink wrap). If you need them, we might be able to strike a deal... Thanks! I don't know quite what I've got yet -- there were a fair number of documents, but I know for a fact that there are no maintenance docs, prints or the like. What do you have (and what do you want :-)) Cheers, Chris -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 14 17:11:12 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991214103542.0244cdb0@pc> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, John Foust wrote: > At 09:36 PM 12/13/99 -0800, Don Maslin wrote: > >On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Bob Stek wrote: > >> Dick (or anyone else) - > >> > >> Would you have the jumper settings (default positions, definitions, etc.) > >> for a Shugart 860? DS0-3 I can figure out. But the rest... > > has an online PDF > version of the Shugart 801 manual, if that might help... > > - John Hopefully, this will clear the fog a bit. - don Shugart SA810/860 Customer Cut/Add Trace Options Trace As Shipped Designator Description Open Short U9 Terminations for Multiplexed Inputs Plugged SI Internal Write Current Switch Plugged SE External Write Current Switch X TR True Ready Output Plugged RTR Radial True Ready X 2S Two Sided Status Output*** X DC Disk Change Option X S1 Side Select Using Direction Select*** X S2 Side Select Input*** Plugged S3 Side Select Using Drive Select*** X 1B,2B,3B,4B Side Select Using Drive Select*** X D Alternate Input In Use X MS Motor On From Drive Select* Plugged MO Alternate Input Motor On* X MMO Alternate Input Multiplexed Motor On* X MD Motor Off Delay X R Ready Output X RR Radial Ready X SR Standard Ready Plugged MT Modified True Ready (Output On Pin 22) X DS1 Drive Select 1 DS2,3,4 Drive Select 2,3,4 Input Y Door Lock Light Activated From Motor On Plugged Z Door Lock Light Activated From Drive Select X PD Stepper Power Down X WP Inhibit Write When Write Protected X NP Allow Write When Write Protected X TS Data Separation Option Select X * Motor On is the complement of HEAD LOAD on the SA801/851 drives. ** SA810/860 offers an optional data separatorwhich properly separates data and clock bits through the soft sectored IBM standard format and address mark area. TS offers the option. *** Applies to SA860 only. From mrbill at mrbill.net Tue Dec 14 20:10:01 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: IBM 4216-020 printers? Message-ID: <19991214201001.B25956@mrbill.net> Anybody know anything about these? I just picked up six of them for $25 , with two fuser units and no toner carts, and a "4216 Personal Pageprinter Technical Reference". Five of the printers have a strange 15-pin D-sub connector that resembles an AUI or PC joystick port, with a set of DIP switches beside it. The sixth has normal serial/parallel interface connectors. None of these printers have ever been used; some are still in the original plastic "bag" wrappings. They date from around 1988. My question is - whats the strange 15-pin interface, and do I have any chance of hooking it to a PC or similar machine ? I got these so cheap because the guy who had them was going to toss them, and I hate to see stuff get tossed. Hopefully they'll turn into something useful. Thanks. Bill -- Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using Windows NT for mission-critical applications." -- What Yoda *meant* to say From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Dec 14 21:25:31 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Qbus slot ordering? In-Reply-To: <991214152445.246000d0@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991214192204.01e43df0@mcmanis.com> At 03:24 PM 12/14/99 -0500, CLASSICCMP (Tim Shoppa) wrote: > >Does anyone know if the CONFIGURE command in the VAX prom suggests slot > >ordering in its output? > >No, it doesn't. The order of CSR's doesn't have any bearing with what >cards go where in the backplane. Oh well. >The order of cards in the backplane will depend on interrupt and DMA >priority. Generally, peripherals that *will* lose data if they can't get >serviced in time get put closest to the CPU. Examples here are serial >lines, etc. Next come peripherals that will have to do a retry if they >don't get serviced in time, but they will be able to do a retry. Tape >drives, for example, might come here. Finally come devices where there's >no real penalty for a retry, and maybe the peripheral doesn't care at all >if the CPU takes its own sweet time in dealing with it. Something like >a real-time clock would come in this category. Sigh, I read Alan's paper and it explained why things are the way they are but it didn't help me figure out what the ordering should be since I don't have enough technical specs on some of the cards to know what their "latency tolerance" is. FWIW, the DZV11 was apparently already set up to be the "first" one (I stuck it in and did a show QBUS and there it was). That saved me from having to figure out the switch settings. And so far it seems to not be interfering with the operation of the system. --Chuck From ss at allegro.com Tue Dec 14 21:46:30 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Hewlett Packard 3265 question In-Reply-To: <0.5f775a18.2587aaee@aol.com> Message-ID: <199912150346.TAA26866@opus.allegro.com> Re: > also, should an idle computer have massive amounts of drive activity? I have > powertools for AOL and AOL on, and the drive can suddenly spend 5 minutes I had a problem with my Pavillion doing something similar...turns out that in my case the Pavillion was periodically (and much too frequently) contacting some HP site to see if there were new patches/software that I might want. The fix, which of course I've forgotten, was documented on an HP web site somewhere. Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 14 23:31:52 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: serial console on VAXstation II/GPX? And backup question. Message-ID: <19991215053152.24490.qmail@brouhaha.com> I'm probably overlooking something terribly obvious, but is there some way to make a VAXstation II/GPX use the console SLU rather than the VCB02 graphics system, short of pulling the VCB02 cards? And if I do that, will VMS also use the SLU for the console? I'd like to make an image backup of the RD54 in the machine, since I need to wipe it to install NetBSD. Does anyone have any suggestions about the best way to go about that? AFAIK the TK50 drive in the machine probably works, and I do have some tapes. I could probably fumble my way through making some sort of backup, but then I wouldn't know how to restore it later. Or, if anyone has a spare RD54, then I wouldn't *need* to wipe the disk. :-) Thanks! Eric From mrbelles at pittstate.edu Wed Dec 15 02:34:01 1999 From: mrbelles at pittstate.edu (Mark) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: Tough one!!! Message-ID: <38575279.8416503A@pittstate.edu> Alright, 1. Thanks for reading this junk posting, for that I apologize. 2. How do I unsubscribe from this list? - which address? 3. command word? -> unsubscribe classiccmp - ??? I have tried several times to unsubscribe. This list is simply swamping my mail server. Can't handle all of the messages. It's been fun reading all this stuff, you all certainly know a lot of S!@#. Just tell me how to get off the mailing list. Flame all you want...I just want off this list! Addresses tried -> listproc@listproc.listproc.net classiccmp@u.washington.edu Peace... From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 15 00:42:56 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: serial console on VAXstation II/GPX? And backup question. In-Reply-To: <19991215053152.24490.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 15, 1999 05:31:52 AM Message-ID: <199912150642.WAA22111@shell1.aracnet.com> Eric wrote: > I'm probably overlooking something terribly obvious, but is there > some way to make a VAXstation II/GPX use the console SLU rather than > the VCB02 graphics system, short of pulling the VCB02 cards? > > And if I do that, will VMS also use the SLU for the console? Hmmm, good question, I've heard murmurings of this in the last week or so, let's see... Finally found the thread on DejaNews, that took some digging. http://x24.deja.com/=dnc/getdoc.xp?AN=559219537&search=thread&CONTEXT=945239598.1187840081&HIT_CONTEXT=945239598.1187840081&HIT_NUM=5&hitnum=3 Here is the important part of the thread: =PS: I have never tried it, but I have heard that if you enter a break =(F5) at the serial console, the system will switch over to it even if =the graphics cards are present. If break doesn't work, you might try =^P. If it works, I for one would like to know :^) > I'd like to make an image backup of the RD54 in the machine, since > I need to wipe it to install NetBSD. Does anyone have any suggestions > about the best way to go about that? AFAIK the TK50 drive in the machine > probably works, and I do have some tapes. I could probably fumble my way > through making some sort of backup, but then I wouldn't know how to restore > it later. > > Or, if anyone has a spare RD54, then I wouldn't *need* to wipe the > disk. :-) Well, do you have the System Managers Manual? You need to put build Standalone backup on a TK50, and then backup the VAX to some other tapes. If you don't have the manual you can find the OpenVMS documentation at the following site: http://www.openvms.digital.com:8000/ As for spare RD54's, don't most of us wish! It's easier to find ESDI controllers and largish ESDI drives. Zane From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 01:03:01 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: 20mA cabling questions Message-ID: <19991215070301.2576.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> The PDP-8/L restoration continues. I have two devices to attach to my -8/L for testing - a VT220 (all have 20mA current-loop connectors) and an ASR-33. One problem: the connector on the VT220 is female and the cable coming from the ASR-33 is male. While this might not seem like a problem, it becomes one when I have to use either device from the same W076 card. Many years ago, I rigged up a working *male* cable from a W076 card for use with this VT220. It still works. I have a quick-n-dirty Switch Register->TTY test program and can emit all sorts of ASCII characters for testing. When I stick a different W076 card in the -8/L, one with a female connector, within the limitations of this particular ASR-33, all is well (the type cylinder doesn't always retract all the way, nor does the hammer always return to the proper position, but I currently suspect that the replacement rubber pad I have attached to the lever arm/hammer does not have the correct resiliency). So... my first goal is to come up with some cables that will solve my W076 problem. Is there a good 20mA primer out there? I have a basic understanding that it's all based on 12VDC loops, send and receive take four wires, but there are six coming out of the W076 card... the extra two are reader-run relay signals, obviously not needed for a VT220, but very important for the ASR-33. A) Is there a color standard for the 20mA connector cabling? I have three W076 cards with three different arrangements. B) When I make a pin-one-to-pin-one male-to-male 20mA cable, it does *not* work with the female-equipped W076 and the VT220. A few moments with a DVM show that the arrangement of a W076 and my straight-through cable do not match the pinout of my long-ago-homemade W076-to-male connector that does work with the VT220. Is there a special wiring trick for male-to-male 20mA cables? C) Somewhere, I have a small box of 20mA cables that have, IIRC, four conductors. Presumably, these are for VT52s. I have no reason to expect that they won't work with the VT220, once I find them. I take it, then, that in the "old days", one never used an ASR-33 as a tape input device except on the console interface? I'm thinking of some of the ancient distribution panels for other DEC serial cards that had EIA (RS-232) _or_ current-loop connectors. Am I missing something? Right now, because my TTY print mechanism is acting up (must press down on the type cylinder between chars, and the line-feed mechanism sticks 20% of the time) I have been testing by inserting one W076 in the backplane for paper tape reads and the other W076 in the backplane for interactive testing. Obviously, this can't go on forever. I suppose I could rig up a *really* bizarre cable that sends the output to the VT220 and takes input from the TTY. Maybe I'll just work that angle. It would save on paper. I don't have much cause to punch stuff right now, and until I get the primary box working I won't even attempt to attach my outboard 8Kw to this CPU (the eventual goal of all of this is to set up for 8K-papertape-BASIC and play Star Trek. I have all the tapes to do this, but I do have to replace the floating-point tape that tore the last time I loaded it (a long, sliver of a tear, not a perpendicular, parting tear). I still know next to nothing about the pr/s01 except that it is *not* 110 baud. Another one of my ancient projects is to replace the M452 variable clock module with a home-made digital baudrate generator. I suppose I'd have to wire a switch on the backplane as well to select the M706/M707 from two stop bits to one when the baud rate was 150 or higher, but I have a prototype module and I have the COM 8116 clock chip and I have the proper crystal to drive it. What remains (besides sitting down and finally *making* it) is to decide if I want to build in the ability to drive transmit and receive at different rates as was common with VT52s. I could receive at 150 or 300 baud and transmit as fast as possible, perhaps 9600 (I'd have to look into the M706/M707 designs to even hazard a guess, but even 150/2400 is an improvement). The goal would be to be able to use the pr/s01 with a TTL -8. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 01:10:15 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: serial console on VAXstation II/GPX? And backup question. Message-ID: <19991215071015.6844.qmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> --- healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > As for spare RD54's, don't most of us wish! Those I have. > It's easier to find ESDI controllers and largish ESDI drives. Speak for yourself. I'd gladly trade an RD54 for a Qbus ESDI controller. I have plenty of drives in the 300-700Mb range (scavenged from ancient Sun systems), but nothing to talk to them for either Qbus _or_ Unibus. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 01:26:05 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: DTC 520A - SASI or SCSI? Message-ID: <19991215072605.22868.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Going through a box of disk interface cards, I ran across a couple of these DTC 520As. Cursory examination shows a 50-pin connector (J4) with two termination resistors (220/330), two 20-pin connectors (J2, J3) which are presumably analog data for two ST506 drives and two 34-pin connectors (J1 and J9). I would expect that J1 is the control cable that goes with J2 and J3. I suspect that J9 is for floppies. The major chips are two 8255s, one 8085, one DTC-037, one NEC D765, one FDC-043, one DTC MSA 2827G, an AMD P8353, and an AMD AM9517. There are several chips with the numbers covered by type- written numbers, PALs and ROMs, no doubt. There are 8 LEDs in a row by the power connector and an 8-position DIP switch. From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Dec 15 02:25:36 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:17 2005 Subject: argh, VAX DB-9 pinout? Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991215002413.00b6bf00@mcmanis.com> I know that someone (Tony?) has already sent this to the list but for the life of me I cannot find it anywhere. What is the pinout of the MicroVAX 9 pin console port and what is the "correct" jumpering to wire it into a 9 pin serial port on a PC? --Chuck From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 15 02:43:15 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: DTC 520A - SASI or SCSI? Message-ID: <001901bf46d8$91f9a300$0400c0a8@winbook> I'm currently the victim of severe abuse from the significant other . . . she's insisted I put my toys away . . . In the process, I just an hour or so ago had the manual for this controller series in my hands. Having looked at both the manuals, 510 and 520, I find mention of neither SASI nor SCSI. The signal definition seems to track SCSI except for pin 42 which they call TDN, which is a new one on me. The manual doesn't seem to define this signal. Maybe its TBD??? The board supports parity, which, IIRC, SASI didn't. It supports both floppy and hard disks of the 5-1/4" flavor, with MFM on the HD and either FM or MFM on the floppy. It's late and I'm too pooped to sit down and scan the approximately 25 pages of manual for you, particularly since the PC with the scanner is in pieces for transit to the basement. I'll see about getting it scanned in the next few days, but keep in mind it's a really poor Xerox copy, some lines of text in several places being completely illegible. The fact that I have these manuals suggests that DTC was a major competitor in the bridge-controller market, else I'd have probably ignored them. For the last couple of weeks I've been kicking the SCSI vs. SASI thing around with Don Maslin and Allison Parent in the Ampro Little Board context, and, as Allison clearly pointed out to me, the SCSI drivers Ampro provided seems to operate a few of the garden-variety SASI controllers just fine. I'd conclude from my observations in going through AMPRO's code and from Allison's comments, that the hardware differences are probably irrelevant in the early-'80's context. Some controllers have a software reset, but not all, and since you have to option of doing a hardware reset, I guess that won't be missed. They didn't have a standard "common command set" back then, so you'll have to commune with your muse to devise a driver. I have had absolutely no luck with the various ADAPTEC, OMTI, and XEBEC bridges I have in conjunction with a PC-based controller. Other things I've found in the current spelunking expedition: Tarbell S-100 FDC (1771) manual XCOMP manual for ST-R bridge controller to HDD CompuPro Econoram SRAM Board manual (model??? ... 16K of 2147's) CDC 6000-series Assembler (COMPASS) manuals for SCOPE OS. Visual 200 Manual Visual 50 manual more Intel ISIS-II and IRMX manuals Pascal-Z v4.0 manual Dick -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 12:32 AM Subject: DTC 520A - SASI or SCSI? > >Going through a box of disk interface cards, I ran across a couple of these >DTC 520As. Cursory examination shows a 50-pin connector (J4) with two >termination resistors (220/330), two 20-pin connectors (J2, J3) which are >presumably analog data for two ST506 drives and two 34-pin connectors (J1 >and J9). I would expect that J1 is the control cable that goes with J2 and >J3. I suspect that J9 is for floppies. The major chips are two 8255s, one >8085, one DTC-037, one NEC D765, one FDC-043, one DTC MSA 2827G, an AMD P8353, >and an AMD AM9517. There are several chips with the numbers covered by type- >written numbers, PALs and ROMs, no doubt. > >There are 8 LEDs in a row by the power connector and an 8-position DIP switch. > >>From the date codes, it appears to have been made near the end of 1983. > >Can anyone shed any additional light on this device? Knowing what this was >expecting to hook up to and how to set the DIP switches would be a great help. > >Many thanks, > >-ethan > > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd@iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 15 02:47:07 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: argh, VAX DB-9 pinout? Message-ID: <002601bf46d8$f83709a0$0400c0a8@winbook> hey! That's a DE-9. The 'B' shell has room for all of 25 pins. the 'A' shell is that size commonly used for the MAU interface to the backbone tap, also common on MacIntosh monitors. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 1:25 AM Subject: argh, VAX DB-9 pinout? >I know that someone (Tony?) has already sent this to the list but for the >life of me I cannot find it anywhere. > >What is the pinout of the MicroVAX 9 pin console port and what is the >"correct" jumpering to wire it into a 9 pin serial port on a PC? > >--Chuck > > From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 15 02:54:29 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: argh, VAX DB-9 pinout? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991215002413.00b6bf00@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: >I know that someone (Tony?) has already sent this to the list but for the >life of me I cannot find it anywhere. > >What is the pinout of the MicroVAX 9 pin console port and what is the >"correct" jumpering to wire it into a 9 pin serial port on a PC? > >--Chuck It's in the VMS FAQ. http://eisner.decus.org/vms/faq.htm The MicroVAX DB9 console connector pinout predates the PC-style DB9 pinout, and uses a then-common (older) standard pinout, and uses the following EIA-232-standard signals: 1.Protective Ground 2.Transmited Data 3.Received Data 4.Request To Send (RTS) 5.Data Terminal Ready (DTR) 6.Data Set Ready (DSR) 7.Signal Ground 8.Shorted to pin 9 on MicroVAX and VAXstation 2000... 9....series systems, otherwise left floating. | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From classiccmp at mrynet.com Tue Dec 14 19:08:25 1999 From: classiccmp at mrynet.com (Classic Computer Mailing List) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: argh, VAX DB-9 pinout? Message-ID: <199912150908.BAA94786@mrynet.com> > >What is the pinout of the MicroVAX 9 pin console port and what is the > >"correct" jumpering to wire it into a 9 pin serial port on a PC? > > > >--Chuck > > > It's in the VMS FAQ. http://eisner.decus.org/vms/faq.htm > > The MicroVAX DB9 console connector pinout predates the PC-style DB9 pinout, > and uses a then-common (older) standard pinout, and uses the following > EIA-232-standard signals: > > 1.Protective Ground > 2.Transmited Data > 3.Received Data > 4.Request To Send (RTS) > 5.Data Terminal Ready (DTR) > 6.Data Set Ready (DSR) > 7.Signal Ground > 8.Shorted to pin 9 on MicroVAX and VAXstation 2000... > 9....series systems, otherwise left floating. > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | FYI Chuck, my MV IIs are quite happy using only the transmit, receive and ground when connected directly to my PCs. This is simply: MV II PC 2 ----------- 2 3 ----------- 3 7 ----------- 7 Cheers, --skots --- Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor@mrynet.com MRY Systems staylor@mrynet.lv (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") ----- Labak miris neka sarkans ----- From eric at brouhaha.com Wed Dec 15 03:01:24 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: argh, VAX DB-9 pinout? In-Reply-To: <199912150908.BAA94786@mrynet.com> (classiccmp@mrynet.com) References: <199912150908.BAA94786@mrynet.com> Message-ID: <19991215090124.26139.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor" wrote: > FYI Chuck, my MV IIs are quite happy using only the transmit, receive > and ground when connected directly to my PCs. This is simply: > > MV II PC > 2 ----------- 2 > 3 ----------- 3 > 7 ----------- 7 I don't see how that could work (reliably). If that's for a 25-pin PC serial port, you've got 2 and 3 swapped. If it's for a 9 pin PC/AT style port, ground needs to be on pin 5 rather than 7. In the latter case, I can imagine that things might sort of work as long as the PC is driving RTS negative, but I wouldn't want to count on that. 25-pin 9-pin Function DTE PC/AT uVAX -------- ------ ----- ---- TxD 2 3 2 RxD 3 2 3 RTS 4 7 4 CTS 5 8 DSR 6 6 6 SG 7 5 7 CD 8 1 DTR 20 4 5 RI 22 9 Since both PCs and uVAXes are DTE, the TxD and RxD lines between the two need to be swapped (as do some handshake lines) to form a null modem. From foxvideo at wincom.net Wed Dec 15 05:40:54 1999 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: Tough one!!! In-Reply-To: <38575279.8416503A@pittstate.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991215064054.007ad770@mail.wincom.net> At 12:34 AM 12/15/1999 -0800, you wrote: >Alright, >1. Thanks for reading this junk posting, for that I apologize. >2. How do I unsubscribe from this list? > - which address? >3. command word? -> unsubscribe classiccmp > - ??? > >I have tried several times to unsubscribe. This list is simply swamping >my mail server. Can't handle all of the messages. It's been fun reading >all this stuff, you all certainly know a lot of S!@#. Just tell me how >to get off the mailing list. Flame all you want...I just want off this >list! > >Addresses tried -> > listproc@listproc.listproc.net > classiccmp@u.washington.edu > >Peace... >> Try listproc@u.washington.edu Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 15 07:36:35 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: Qbus slot ordering? In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991214192204.01e43df0@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: > FWIW, the DZV11 was apparently already set up to be the "first" one (I > stuck it in and did a show QBUS and there it was). That saved me from > having to figure out the switch settings. And so far it seems to not be > interfering with the operation of the system. > > --Chuck For vax and PDP-11 QBUS systems there are recommended addresses for cards and some ordering rules but none are that hard and fast. Generally Qbus ordering: CPU Memory (if PMI) DEQNA/DELQA (NI) TK50(streaming tapes) DL lines (unbuffered) DUV/DHV/DZV (muxes and buffered serial) RQDXn (MSCP disks) The pattern should be obvious. Devices with the highest throughput or processing demand are nearest the cpu and low/slow demand devices further away. Memory has to be next to the CPU if PMI due to the over the top cable if QBUS (usually only PDP11) it can be at the end of the bus. The addresses are in the varios PDP-11 and vax manuals and usually list primary and secondary addresses (and vectors if not "floating"). Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 15 07:48:51 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: serial console on VAXstation II/GPX? And backup question. In-Reply-To: <19991215053152.24490.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: > I'm probably overlooking something terribly obvious, but is there > some way to make a VAXstation II/GPX use the console SLU rather than > the VCB02 graphics system, short of pulling the VCB02 cards? > > And if I do that, will VMS also use the SLU for the console? The VCB02 is the primary console in that case and the SLU is not used. If you pull the cards it will switch over magically. > I'd like to make an image backup of the RD54 in the machine, since > I need to wipe it to install NetBSD. Does anyone have any suggestions > about the best way to go about that? AFAIK the TK50 drive in the machine > probably works, and I do have some tapes. I could probably fumble my way > through making some sort of backup, but then I wouldn't know how to restore > it later. you need to make a tape of STBACKIT, the build for it is usually on the disk. Then you do a backup/image of the disk to tape. Standalone backup is then used to do a restore of the disk later. If you have access to someone with the VMS CDrom set from last year or this year you can do an install from that if a tape is cut for you. and not worry saving the old image. > Or, if anyone has a spare RD54, then I wouldn't *need* to wipe the > disk. :-) Not likely. Seems everyone is looking for them. ;) Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 15 07:54:39 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: DTC 520A - SASI or SCSI? In-Reply-To: <19991215072605.22868.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ok, Likely that is something else. I'd expect the 34pin to be floppy and maybe MFM hard disk. The 50pin could be... QIC02, QIC24 or maybe the old Hard disk interface used for the 8" hard disks (SMD?) like the SA4000. !983 SCSI ws likely SASI, but many tapes and disks used a 50pin parallel like interface back then too. Allison On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Going through a box of disk interface cards, I ran across a couple of these > DTC 520As. Cursory examination shows a 50-pin connector (J4) with two > termination resistors (220/330), two 20-pin connectors (J2, J3) which are > presumably analog data for two ST506 drives and two 34-pin connectors (J1 > and J9). I would expect that J1 is the control cable that goes with J2 and > J3. I suspect that J9 is for floppies. The major chips are two 8255s, one > 8085, one DTC-037, one NEC D765, one FDC-043, one DTC MSA 2827G, an AMD P8353, > and an AMD AM9517. There are several chips with the numbers covered by type- > written numbers, PALs and ROMs, no doubt. > > There are 8 LEDs in a row by the power connector and an 8-position DIP switch. > > >From the date codes, it appears to have been made near the end of 1983. > > Can anyone shed any additional light on this device? Knowing what this was > expecting to hook up to and how to set the DIP switches would be a great help. > > Many thanks, > > -ethan > > > > ===== > Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. > Please send all replies to > > erd@iname.com > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. > Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > From truthanl at oclc.org Wed Dec 15 08:32:19 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: 20mA cabling questions Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE5E@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Ethan, The 20 ma current loop is not always 12 Volt loops - its 20 ma Loops. I have the IBM tech ref for the IBM PC Asynch Port which shows one Cuurent Loop interface implemented on 25 pin D-shell pins 9,11, 18 & 25. (Only when an option jumper block selects current loop.) For Xmit they have 8250 (ttl) S-OUT buffered through an LS125. The LS125 output "fans out" feeding both the RS-232 driver as well as three 7406 inverters in parallel for "ample" 20ma drive. In series beyond the three || 7406 inverters is a 100 ohm resistor routed to pin 11 labelled " - xmit CL out". Pin 9 labelled "+ xmit CL ret" is pulled high to 5V through a 49.9 Ohm resistor. For RX they show an opto coupler, a 20 ma diode anode tied to pin 18 labelled "+ RCV CL data. Its cathode is tied to pin 25, labelled "-RCV CL ret". The switching transistor of the opto coupler drives the input (Low)on an LS04 inverter which is routed through jumper selection to "serial in" (SIN)on the 8250. So you need to determine if your third CL pair drives, or reads, the "reader" relays. Each pair is either a source or a sink for current. Another good source for reference on computer controls interfacing is a Burr- Brown publication called "The Handbook of Personal Computer Instrumentation" I have a spare Fourth edition Published in 1989. Stop by OCLC and pick it up. Sincerely Larry Truthan -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks [mailto:ethan_dicks@yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 2:03 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: 20mA cabling questions The PDP-8/L restoration continues. I have two devices to attach to my -8/L for testing - a VT220 (all have 20mA current-loop connectors) and an ASR-33. One problem: the connector on the VT220 is female and the cable coming from the ASR-33 is male. While this might not seem like a problem, it becomes one when I have to use either device from the same W076 card. Many years ago, I rigged up a working *male* cable from a W076 card for use with this VT220. It still works. I have a quick-n-dirty Switch Register->TTY test program and can emit all sorts of ASCII characters for testing. When I stick a different W076 card in the -8/L, one with a female connector, within the limitations of this particular ASR-33, all is well (the type cylinder doesn't always retract all the way, nor does the hammer always return to the proper position, but I currently suspect that the replacement rubber pad I have attached to the lever arm/hammer does not have the correct resiliency). So... my first goal is to come up with some cables that will solve my W076 problem. Is there a good 20mA primer out there? I have a basic understanding that it's all based on 12VDC loops, send and receive take four wires, but there are six coming out of the W076 card... the extra two are reader-run relay signals, obviously not needed for a VT220, but very important for the ASR-33. A) Is there a color standard for the 20mA connector cabling? I have three W076 cards with three different arrangements. B) When I make a pin-one-to-pin-one male-to-male 20mA cable, it does *not* work with the female-equipped W076 and the VT220. A few moments with a DVM show that the arrangement of a W076 and my straight-through cable do not match the pinout of my long-ago-homemade W076-to-male connector that does work with the VT220. Is there a special wiring trick for male-to-male 20mA cables? C) Somewhere, I have a small box of 20mA cables that have, IIRC, four conductors. Presumably, these are for VT52s. I have no reason to expect that they won't work with the VT220, once I find them. I take it, then, that in the "old days", one never used an ASR-33 as a tape input device except on the console interface? I'm thinking of some of the ancient distribution panels for other DEC serial cards that had EIA (RS-232) _or_ current-loop connectors. Am I missing something? Right now, because my TTY print mechanism is acting up (must press down on the type cylinder between chars, and the line-feed mechanism sticks 20% of the time) I have been testing by inserting one W076 in the backplane for paper tape reads and the other W076 in the backplane for interactive testing. Obviously, this can't go on forever. I suppose I could rig up a *really* bizarre cable that sends the output to the VT220 and takes input from the TTY. Maybe I'll just work that angle. It would save on paper. I don't have much cause to punch stuff right now, and until I get the primary box working I won't even attempt to attach my outboard 8Kw to this CPU (the eventual goal of all of this is to set up for 8K-papertape-BASIC and play Star Trek. I have all the tapes to do this, but I do have to replace the floating-point tape that tore the last time I loaded it (a long, sliver of a tear, not a perpendicular, parting tear). I still know next to nothing about the pr/s01 except that it is *not* 110 baud. Another one of my ancient projects is to replace the M452 variable clock module with a home-made digital baudrate generator. I suppose I'd have to wire a switch on the backplane as well to select the M706/M707 from two stop bits to one when the baud rate was 150 or higher, but I have a prototype module and I have the COM 8116 clock chip and I have the proper crystal to drive it. What remains (besides sitting down and finally *making* it) is to decide if I want to build in the ability to drive transmit and receive at different rates as was common with VT52s. I could receive at 150 or 300 baud and transmit as fast as possible, perhaps 9600 (I'd have to look into the M706/M707 designs to even hazard a guess, but even 150/2400 is an improvement). The goal would be to be able to use the pr/s01 with a TTL -8. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From jott at saturn.ee.nd.edu Wed Dec 15 09:57:01 1999 From: jott at saturn.ee.nd.edu (John Ott) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: IBM 4216-020 printers? Message-ID: <19991215105701.A3524@saturn.ee.nd.edu> Hello - I have 2 LaserPrinter Font Cards (p/n 1255806) you may have for shipping if they'll work. Typeface Pitch Point FGID Orator Bold 6.5 18 435 Orator Bold 8.1 16 434 Orator 10 14 005 john In-Reply-To: <19991214201001.B25956@mrbill.net>; from mrbill@mrbill.net on Tue, Dec 14, 1999 at 08:10:01PM -0600 On Tue, Dec 14, 1999 at 08:10:01PM -0600, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know anything about these? I just picked up six of them for > $25 , with two fuser units and no toner carts, and a "4216 Personal > Pageprinter Technical Reference". Five of the printers have a strange > 15-pin D-sub connector that resembles an AUI or PC joystick port, with > a set of DIP switches beside it. The sixth has normal serial/parallel > interface connectors. None of these printers have ever been used; some > are still in the original plastic "bag" wrappings. They date from around > 1988. > > My question is - whats the strange 15-pin interface, and do I have any > chance of hooking it to a PC or similar machine ? I got these so cheap > because the guy who had them was going to toss them, and I hate to see > stuff get tossed. Hopefully they'll turn into something useful. > > Thanks. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net > mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using > Windows NT for mission-critical applications." > -- What Yoda *meant* to say -- *********************************************************************** * John Ott * Email: jott@saturn.ee.nd.edu * * Dept. Electrical Engineering * * * 275 Fitzpatrick Hall * * * University of Notre Dame * Phone: (219) 631-7752 * * Notre Dame, IN 46556 USA * * *********************************************************************** From marvin at rain.org Wed Dec 15 11:39:10 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: Tough one!!! References: <38575279.8416503A@pittstate.edu> Message-ID: <3857D23E.4834AEEE@rain.org> Mark wrote: > > Alright, > 1. Thanks for reading this junk posting, for that I apologize. > 2. How do I unsubscribe from this list? > - which address? Turn on full headers and you will see everything you are looking for in the email header information. From elvey at hal.com Wed Dec 15 11:48:05 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: Tough one!!! In-Reply-To: <38575279.8416503A@pittstate.edu> Message-ID: <199912151748.JAA16859@civic.hal.com> Hi Mark If you look in your email header, there is a line that reads: List-Unsubscribe: You need to send to the right address: listproc@u.washington.edu You need to have the body words: unsubscribe classiccmp If this doesn't work, there is a problem with the list server. Then you need to check the help part. Here is a complete list of what is sent in every header for classiccmp if you will just take a look: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: (Human contact for the list) List-Post: Take care Dwight Mark wrote: > Alright, > 1. Thanks for reading this junk posting, for that I apologize. > 2. How do I unsubscribe from this list? > - which address? > 3. command word? -> unsubscribe classiccmp > - ??? > > I have tried several times to unsubscribe. This list is simply swamping > my mail server. Can't handle all of the messages. It's been fun reading > all this stuff, you all certainly know a lot of S!@#. Just tell me how > to get off the mailing list. Flame all you want...I just want off this > list! > > Addresses tried -> > listproc@listproc.listproc.net > classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > Peace... From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 15 13:30:23 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: DTC 520A - SASI or SCSI? Message-ID: <000c01bf4732$eb57cd00$0400c0a8@winbook> Based on the names of most of the signals, I'd say the 50-pin host interface connector is for an early version of SASI or SCSI but done tenuously enough that there was margin for going with a standard when one evolved. The manual in my possession is dated January 16. 1980. They didn't have a standard then, and, in fact SCSI was still pretty much of an illusion at the time. I'd guess it's a safe bet that this one will work with SASI hardware or even with some SCSI hardware. I doubt that it will work with most state-machine-driven interface devices, since some of the signals are not present, and, frankly, this interface is far enough off the mark that it probably needs a programmed I/O sequence to handle it. Dick -----Original Message----- From: allisonp@world.std.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 7:01 AM Subject: Re: DTC 520A - SASI or SCSI? > >Ok, > >Likely that is something else. I'd expect the 34pin to be floppy and >maybe MFM hard disk. > >The 50pin could be... QIC02, QIC24 or maybe the old Hard disk interface >used for the 8" hard disks (SMD?) like the SA4000. > >!983 SCSI ws likely SASI, but many tapes and disks used a 50pin parallel >like interface back then too. > >Allison > > >On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > >> >> Going through a box of disk interface cards, I ran across a couple of these >> DTC 520As. Cursory examination shows a 50-pin connector (J4) with two >> termination resistors (220/330), two 20-pin connectors (J2, J3) which are >> presumably analog data for two ST506 drives and two 34-pin connectors (J1 >> and J9). I would expect that J1 is the control cable that goes with J2 and >> J3. I suspect that J9 is for floppies. The major chips are two 8255s, one >> 8085, one DTC-037, one NEC D765, one FDC-043, one DTC MSA 2827G, an AMD P8353, >> and an AMD AM9517. There are several chips with the numbers covered by type- >> written numbers, PALs and ROMs, no doubt. >> >> There are 8 LEDs in a row by the power connector and an 8-position DIP switch. >> >> >From the date codes, it appears to have been made near the end of 1983. >> >> Can anyone shed any additional light on this device? Knowing what this was >> expecting to hook up to and how to set the DIP switches would be a great help. >> >> Many thanks, >> >> -ethan >> >> >> >> ===== >> Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >> Please send all replies to >> >> erd@iname.com >> __________________________________________________ >> Do You Yahoo!? >> Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >> Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com >> > From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 15 14:20:01 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: DTC 520A - SASI or SCSI? In-Reply-To: <19991215072605.22868.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Going through a box of disk interface cards, I ran across a couple of these > DTC 520As. Cursory examination shows a 50-pin connector (J4) with two > termination resistors (220/330), two 20-pin connectors (J2, J3) which are > presumably analog data for two ST506 drives and two 34-pin connectors (J1 > and J9). I would expect that J1 is the control cable that goes with J2 and > J3. I suspect that J9 is for floppies. The major chips are two 8255s, one > 8085, one DTC-037, one NEC D765, one FDC-043, one DTC MSA 2827G, an AMD P8353, > and an AMD AM9517. There are several chips with the numbers covered by type- > written numbers, PALs and ROMs, no doubt. > > There are 8 LEDs in a row by the power connector and an 8-position DIP switch. > > >From the date codes, it appears to have been made near the end of 1983. > > Can anyone shed any additional light on this device? Knowing what this was > expecting to hook up to and how to set the DIP switches would be a great help. > > Many thanks, > > -ethan > I have a manual for the DTC500DB series, which are all SASI interface. However, there are so many differences in switches/jumpers that I can make no meaningful guesses at what yours should be. The DB's for example have no DIP switches - only jumpers. - don > > ===== > Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. > Please send all replies to > > erd@iname.com > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. > Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 15 14:29:19 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: Tough one!!! In-Reply-To: <38575279.8416503A@pittstate.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Mark wrote: > Alright, > 1. Thanks for reading this junk posting, for that I apologize. > 2. How do I unsubscribe from this list? > - which address? > 3. command word? -> unsubscribe classiccmp > - ??? > > I have tried several times to unsubscribe. This list is simply swamping > my mail server. Can't handle all of the messages. It's been fun reading > all this stuff, you all certainly know a lot of S!@#. Just tell me how > to get off the mailing list. Flame all you want...I just want off this > list! > > Addresses tried -> > listproc@listproc.listproc.net > classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > Peace... > Bring up the fill header information on any message posted by classiccmp and you will find the information needed. - don From Innfogra at aol.com Wed Dec 15 14:56:13 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: DTC 520A - SASI or SCSI? Message-ID: <0.27b51024.25895a6d@aol.com> I have pulled quite a few of these out of machines. I believe they are SASI and control two MFM hard drives and a floppy set. The largest hard drive I have seen hooked up is the Quantum 540. Normally the floppies were DSDD 360s but I believe it would work with single density and single sided. I have no documentation. Paxton From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 15 13:00:30 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: 20mA cabling questions In-Reply-To: <19991215070301.2576.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 14, 99 11:03:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 7571 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991215/25121a16/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 15 13:05:22 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: argh, VAX DB-9 pinout? In-Reply-To: <002601bf46d8$f83709a0$0400c0a8@winbook> from "Richard Erlacher" at Dec 15, 99 01:47:07 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 937 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991215/842f70ac/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Wed Dec 15 15:18:25 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: DTC 520A - SASI or SCSI? In-Reply-To: <0.27b51024.25895a6d@aol.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Dec 1999 Innfogra@aol.com wrote: > I have pulled quite a few of these out of machines. I believe they are SASI > and control two MFM hard drives and a floppy set. The largest hard drive I > have seen hooked up is the Quantum 540. Normally the floppies were DSDD 360s > but I believe it would work with single density and single sided. > > I have no documentation. > > Paxton > Should also work with 720k drives - either 3.5 or 5.25". - don From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 15 15:26:21 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: "DB9" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > Thank %deity there's somebody else out there who actually knows what a > 'DB' connector is!. I sometimes think I'm fighting a losing battle > against the people who insist there's a DB9 :-) How large would the pins be, or how far apart if there WERE a DB9? Or what about a DB25 serial port cable that only has pins 1-8 and 20? Could we call THAT a DB9? :-) > > For reference, the stnadard connectors seem to be, with common uses : > > DA15 (PC joystick), MAU ethernet, etc > DA26 (Never seen it used) > > DB25 (Standard RS232, PC printer port) > DB44 (Never seen it used) > > DC37 (PC external floppy disk, Canon CX-VDO interface) > DC62 (IBM PC expansion cabinet) > > DD50 (Sun SCSI) > > DE9 (PC/AT serial port, Atari joystick, etc) > DE15 (VGA monitor) > > I've seen the 19 and 23 pin connectors used by Apple, Atari and Commodore > Amiga refered to as the DF19 and DG23. It makes sense, but I have no idea > if that's official. > > -tony From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 15 15:37:21 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: "DB9" In-Reply-To: from "Fred Cisin" at Dec 15, 99 01:26:21 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 765 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991215/38886ded/attachment.ksh From truthanl at oclc.org Wed Dec 15 15:43:32 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: "DB9" Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE63@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Belden Calls them all D-Subminiature connectors either Plugs or Sockets (Jacks) in 9, 15, 25, and 37 pins. Metal Head shells or thermoplastic. Having .050" centered conductors. DSP009 is 9 pin plug DSJ009 is 9 position jack (socket) Were there Standards, or was this left to Mfg part numbering scheme?? Molex, Amphenol, Thomas & Betts, Ansley? Mil Spec? Larry Truthan -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 4:26 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: "DB9" On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > Thank %deity there's somebody else out there who actually knows what a > 'DB' connector is!. I sometimes think I'm fighting a losing battle > against the people who insist there's a DB9 :-) How large would the pins be, or how far apart if there WERE a DB9? Or what about a DB25 serial port cable that only has pins 1-8 and 20? Could we call THAT a DB9? :-) > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 15 16:35:31 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: "DB9" Message-ID: <001f01bf474c$b278a1c0$0400c0a8@winbook> please see embedded comments below. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 2:33 PM Subject: "DB9" >On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >> Thank %deity there's somebody else out there who actually knows what a >> 'DB' connector is!. I sometimes think I'm fighting a losing battle >> against the people who insist there's a DB9 :-) > >How large would the pins be, or how far apart if there WERE a DB9? >Or what about a DB25 serial port cable that only has pins 1-8 and 20? >Could we call THAT a DB9? :-) > I once had a Mistubishi monitor which used a 'B'-shell with three coax connectors in it along with eight or nine signals on what looked to be otherwise standard pins. Just yesterday I discarded a badly damaged 'C'-shell with 78 pins in three rows. I don't think that connector will become popular due to its fragility, at least I hope not! > >> >> For reference, the standard connectors seem to be, with common uses : >> >> DA15 (PC joystick), MAU ethernet, etc >> DA26 (Never seen it used) >> >> DB25 (Standard RS232, PC printer port) >> DB44 (Never seen it used) >> >> DC37 (PC external floppy disk, Canon CX-VDO interface) >> DC62 (IBM PC expansion cabinet) >> >> DD50 (Sun SCSI) >> The make these with four rows, more densely spaced, but I don't know the max pin count >> >> DE9 (PC/AT serial port, Atari joystick, etc) >> DE15 (VGA monitor) >> >> I've seen the 19 and 23 pin connectors used by Apple, Atari and Commodore >> Amiga refered to as the DF19 and DG23. It makes sense, but I have no idea >> if that's official. >> >> -tony > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 15 16:38:31 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: "DB9" Message-ID: <002601bf474d$1ea2c1a0$0400c0a8@winbook> The way I learned it was that the 'D' refers to the shape, the 'B' to the shell size, and the number to the maximal pin count. The spacing is not .050" however. It seems to me that it's larger than 0.10" andnot less, except in the high-density versions like the DE15. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Truthan,Larry To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 2:50 PM Subject: RE: "DB9" >Belden Calls them all D-Subminiature connectors either Plugs or Sockets >(Jacks) in 9, 15, 25, and 37 pins. Metal Head shells or thermoplastic. >Having .050" centered conductors. > >DSP009 is 9 pin plug >DSJ009 is 9 position jack (socket) > >Were there Standards, or was this left to Mfg part numbering scheme?? >Molex, Amphenol, Thomas & Betts, Ansley? Mil Spec? > >Larry Truthan > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] >Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 4:26 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: "DB9" > > >On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >> Thank %deity there's somebody else out there who actually knows what a >> 'DB' connector is!. I sometimes think I'm fighting a losing battle >> against the people who insist there's a DB9 :-) > >How large would the pins be, or how far apart if there WERE a DB9? >Or what about a DB25 serial port cable that only has pins 1-8 and 20? >Could we call THAT a DB9? :-) > > >> From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 15 16:40:22 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: "DB9" Message-ID: <002901bf474d$60041f40$0400c0a8@winbook> regarding the origin of this somewhat odd (in its sensibility) scheme. . . I was told it was Amphenol that cooked up this particular scheme for the benefit of the military procurement system. Presumably it gave them an advantage for a time. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Truthan,Larry To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 2:50 PM Subject: RE: "DB9" >Belden Calls them all D-Subminiature connectors either Plugs or Sockets >(Jacks) in 9, 15, 25, and 37 pins. Metal Head shells or thermoplastic. >Having .050" centered conductors. > >DSP009 is 9 pin plug >DSJ009 is 9 position jack (socket) > >Were there Standards, or was this left to Mfg part numbering scheme?? >Molex, Amphenol, Thomas & Betts, Ansley? Mil Spec? > >Larry Truthan > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Fred Cisin (XenoSoft) [mailto:cisin@xenosoft.com] >Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 4:26 PM >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Subject: "DB9" > > >On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >> Thank %deity there's somebody else out there who actually knows what a >> 'DB' connector is!. I sometimes think I'm fighting a losing battle >> against the people who insist there's a DB9 :-) > >How large would the pins be, or how far apart if there WERE a DB9? >Or what about a DB25 serial port cable that only has pins 1-8 and 20? >Could we call THAT a DB9? :-) > > >> From af-list at wfi-inc.com Wed Dec 15 17:06:16 1999 From: af-list at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: argh, VAX DB-9 pinout? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > DA15 (PC joystick), MAU ethernet, etc > DA26 (Never seen it used) > > DB25 (Standard RS232, PC printer port) > DB44 (Never seen it used) > > DC37 (PC external floppy disk, Canon CX-VDO interface) > DC62 (IBM PC expansion cabinet) > > DD50 (Sun SCSI) > > DE9 (PC/AT serial port, Atari joystick, etc) > DE15 (VGA monitor) You forgot DE3 (aka ATP). From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 15 16:49:47 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: "DB9" In-Reply-To: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE63@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> from "Truthan,Larry" at Dec 15, 99 04:43:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 547 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991215/1568a763/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 15 17:01:35 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: "DB9" In-Reply-To: <001f01bf474c$b278a1c0$0400c0a8@winbook> from "Richard Erlacher" at Dec 15, 99 03:35:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 604 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991215/090f7425/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 15 17:18:02 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: argh, VAX DB-9 pinout? In-Reply-To: from "Aaron Christopher Finney" at Dec 15, 99 03:06:16 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 214 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991215/4c0b19f9/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Dec 15 17:48:35 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: An easy one (after that db9 debacle!) Message-ID: <4.1.19991215154627.04068860@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Ok, so my choice of terms was poor, y'all understood what I meant :-) This one should be easy. I've got an ESDI drive, I know that at one time it had termination resistors in it, I know that I pulled them out, I put them into my "drawer of misc resistor packs", they are effectively invisible :-) What is the resistor values for the term pack? 220/330? --Chuck From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 15 09:31:32 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: OT: Bill Gates Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991215093132.225f8bb4@mailhost.intellistar.net> Bill Gates dies and is at the pearly gates talking with Saint Peter. Saint Peter says, "Bill, you've done some wonderful things in your life and have earned the right to choose where you'll spend the rest of eternity. You can choose between Heaven or Hell, but choose wisely." Bill looks over Saint Peter's shoulder between the pearly gates and sees nothing but a lush green meadow. Deciding to heed Saint Peter's words, Bill asks if he could take a look at Hell. Saint Peter agrees and sends Bill to Hell. The Devil greets Bill at the gates of Hell and he is immediately taken aback. Much to his surprise, there's one heck of a party going on. People are dancing, the alcohol is flowing, music is non-stop and everyone is having a blast. Bill returns to Heaven to again discuss his decision with Saint Peter. He again looks over Saint Peter's shoulder and sees only a lush green meadow. Bill says to Saint Peter, "I've put a lot of thought into this decision and it may sound foolish, but I'd like to spend the rest of eternity in Hell." Saint Peter fulfills Bill's request and returns him to Hell. When Bill gets back to Hell there's been a big change. People are writhing in agony, flames are burning, moans of pain and despair are everywhere. Bill, being quite shocked at the sight asks the Devil, "What happened?? I was just down here a little while ago and everyone was having a great time!" The Devil says, "Oh that... That was just the demo!" From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 18:51:12 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: argh, VAX DB-9 pinout? Message-ID: <19991216005112.28663.qmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > For reference, the stnadard connectors seem to be, with common uses : > DA26 (Never seen it used) Got them on the back of my Cisco AGS+ router - they are carrying V.35 signals. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 15 21:16:00 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: FSOT: AT&T 3B2 400 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991215211600.3c977684@mailhost.intellistar.net> I have a pair of 3B2 400s that need to find a new home. I also have a large stack of manuals for them. Located in central Florida. Best offer plus shipping. Joe From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 15 19:28:18 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: An easy one (after that db9 debacle!) Message-ID: <000e01bf4764$d61eaee0$0400c0a8@winbook> They can be either 220/330 packs, with Vcc at one end and Vss at the other, or they can be 150-ohms to Vcc. If the end opposite the connection to Vcc is not solidly connected to Vss, then it's the latter. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 4:54 PM Subject: An easy one (after that db9 debacle!) >Ok, so my choice of terms was poor, y'all understood what I meant :-) > >This one should be easy. I've got an ESDI drive, I know that at one time it >had termination resistors in it, I know that I pulled them out, I put them >into my "drawer of misc resistor packs", they are effectively invisible :-) > >What is the resistor values for the term pack? 220/330? > >--Chuck > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 15 19:35:42 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: argh, VAX DB-9 pinout? Message-ID: <002a01bf4765$de72d5c0$0400c0a8@winbook> Now that everybody's in sync with the deifinitions of the other details, it is well to remember that there's a suffix for gender. The shell filled with plastic hosting the female pins is suffixed '-S' (socket) and the male with the obviously male pins, is suffixed '-P' for PLUG. That's the whole spec ... shape, size, standard maximum number of pins, and gender: DE15S, for the connector on your typical VGA card. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 5:58 PM Subject: Re: argh, VAX DB-9 pinout? > > >--- Tony Duell wrote: > >> For reference, the stnadard connectors seem to be, with common uses : >> DA26 (Never seen it used) > >Got them on the back of my Cisco AGS+ router - they are carrying V.35 signals. > >-ethan > > >===== >Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. >Please send all replies to > > erd@iname.com >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. >Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From wsmith at gj.com Wed Dec 15 19:35:19 1999 From: wsmith at gj.com (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: OT: Bill Gates Message-ID: As amusing twist on a classic joke. When I was in law school many moons ago "Bill Gates" was replaced by "a law student" and the punch line was "Oh, that was our summer associate program." >>> Joe 12/15 9:31 AM >>> Bill Gates dies and is at the pearly gates talking with Saint Peter. Saint Peter says, "Bill, you've done some wonderful things in your life and have earned the right to choose where you'll spend the rest of eternity. You can choose between Heaven or Hell, but choose wisely." Bill looks over Saint Peter's shoulder between the pearly gates and sees nothing but a lush green meadow. Deciding to heed Saint Peter's words, Bill asks if he could take a look at Hell. Saint Peter agrees and sends Bill to Hell. The Devil greets Bill at the gates of Hell and he is immediately taken aback. Much to his surprise, there's one heck of a party going on. People are dancing, the alcohol is flowing, music is non-stop and everyone is having a blast. Bill returns to Heaven to again discuss his decision with Saint Peter. He again looks over Saint Peter's shoulder and sees only a lush green meadow. Bill says to Saint Peter, "I've put a lot of thought into this decision and it may sound foolish, but I'd like to spend the rest of eternity in Hell." Saint Peter fulfills Bill's request and returns him to Hell. When Bill gets back to Hell there's been a big change. People are writhing in agony, flames are burning, moans of pain and despair are everywhere. Bill, being quite shocked at the sight asks the Devil, "What happened?? I was just down here a little while ago and everyone was having a great time!" The Devil says, "Oh that... That was just the demo!" ! ! ! From ss at allegro.com Wed Dec 15 19:56:27 1999 From: ss at allegro.com (Stan Sieler) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: (Fwd) [HP3000-L] HP70 Classic etc available Message-ID: <199912160156.RAA06777@opus.allegro.com> Contact the sender (g.mitchell@COMPUTER.ORG), not me! ------- Forwarded message follows ------- Date sent: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 16:23:11 -0500 Subject: [HP3000-L] HP70 Classic etc available Organization: RoadRunner Portland, Maine From: g.mitchell@COMPUTER.ORG To: HP3000-L@RAVEN.UTC.EDU Send reply to: g.mitchell@COMPUTER.ORG Wondered if any of you museum curators/marina operators would be interested in parts/pieces of an HP-3000 Series 70 we're deinstalling next week? Usual stuff: 16Meg Kelly card, 4Meg EMC cards, 1 meg HP cards, GIC's, LANIC, IMBs, ATPs, a disk cabinet (19514A - for 670/7937 disks) and 670XP and 7937XP disks. -- Glenn A. Mitchell Mailto:g.mitchell@computer.org 3GM Associates, Inc Portland, ME 04102 207-772-9370 ------- End of forwarded message ------- Stan Sieler sieler@allegro.com www.allegro.com/sieler/wanted/index.html www.allegro.com/sieler From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 15 19:11:05 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: An easy one (after that db9 debacle!) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991215154627.04068860@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Dec 15, 99 03:48:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1013 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991216/d41871fc/attachment.ksh From ndiablo at diablonet.net Wed Dec 15 22:43:33 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: Anyone familiar with NeXT harware out there? Message-ID: <19991216044333.31953.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Hi! I've got an original 68030 NeXT Cube workstation that i've had for about a year and I can't get it to power up anymore.. The system used to work great; has been unplugged for the last few months pretty much just sitting there, so I dont see how much harm could have come to it.. The only thing I can think of is perhaps the system battery might be too low, and as a result, the soft power switch on the system (via keyboard) is not working anymore.. I was reading around 2v on a 3v battery... Anybody out there know if this is even plausible (or can suggest any alternative issues that might be coming up)? :( Thanks, -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From red at bears.org Wed Dec 15 21:55:26 1999 From: red at bears.org (r. 'bear' stricklin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: Anyone familiar with NeXT harware out there? In-Reply-To: <19991216044333.31953.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Message-ID: On 16 Dec 1999 ndiablo@diablonet.net wrote: > there, so I dont see how much harm could have come to it.. The only thing > I can think of is perhaps the system battery might be too low, and as a > result, the soft power switch on the system (via keyboard) is not working > anymore.. I was reading around 2v on a 3v battery... Anybody out there > know if this is even plausible (or can suggest any alternative issues > that might be coming up)? :( This seems to me like the most likely issue. Replace that battery; it's been 11 years, and that seems to be the life expectancy of these batteries. I believe this issue is addressed in the (woefully out of date) comp.sys.next FAQ. If nothing else there will be articles archived in dejanews which discuss this topic, and may provide a source for a new battery. If replacing the battery doesn't solve your problem, let me know and I'll see what else I can come up with. ok r. From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 15 23:31:41 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: An easy one (after that db9 debacle!) Message-ID: <001f01bf4786$d5f29d60$0400c0a8@winbook> It appears that most of my ESDI drives, including MAXTOR, Miniscribe, CDC/Seagate, and Micropolis, all seem to use 150-ohm resistors. I thought I had at least one around here that used the 220/330 type. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 7:14 PM Subject: Re: An easy one (after that db9 debacle!) >> This one should be easy. I've got an ESDI drive, I know that at one time it >> had termination resistors in it, I know that I pulled them out, I put them >> into my "drawer of misc resistor packs", they are effectively invisible :-) >> >> What is the resistor values for the term pack? 220/330? > >Almost certainly. May be marked 221331 (==22*10^1, 33*10^1). I would >guess the pinout is one of the standard ones (SIL with the common pins at >the ends, DIL with the common pins at the top right and bottom left corners) > >The latter assumption is not always valid. I once worked on a floppy >drive that was corrupting disks. The cause was the termination resistor >pack. It was a 9 pin SIL, but instead of having the common pin at one end >(marked by a dot), it had it in the middle. The correct resistor pack was >symmetrical, therefore. Somebody had put in a normal resistor pack, and >the result was that all sorts of signals got coupled together. Finding >that fault was entertaining to say the least. > >-tony > From edick at idcomm.com Wed Dec 15 23:33:09 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: An easy one (after that db9 debacle!) Message-ID: <002201bf4787$09f87c60$0400c0a8@winbook> ... and it was a DE9 debacle! . . . Dick -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 7:14 PM Subject: Re: An easy one (after that db9 debacle!) >> This one should be easy. I've got an ESDI drive, I know that at one time it >> had termination resistors in it, I know that I pulled them out, I put them >> into my "drawer of misc resistor packs", they are effectively invisible :-) >> >> What is the resistor values for the term pack? 220/330? > >Almost certainly. May be marked 221331 (==22*10^1, 33*10^1). I would >guess the pinout is one of the standard ones (SIL with the common pins at >the ends, DIL with the common pins at the top right and bottom left corners) > >The latter assumption is not always valid. I once worked on a floppy >drive that was corrupting disks. The cause was the termination resistor >pack. It was a 9 pin SIL, but instead of having the common pin at one end >(marked by a dot), it had it in the middle. The correct resistor pack was >symmetrical, therefore. Somebody had put in a normal resistor pack, and >the result was that all sorts of signals got coupled together. Finding >that fault was entertaining to say the least. > >-tony > From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 15 23:31:48 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: TTY and current loop questions (was Re: 20mA cabling questions) Message-ID: <19991216053148.11859.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > > The PDP-8/L restoration continues. I have two devices to attach to my -8/L > > for testing - a VT220 (all have 20mA current-loop connectors) and an > > ASR-33. > > OK, first thing to do is to clean and oil (correctly!) that ASR33. If > parts are sticking, there's a reason for it, either no oil or old, > gummed-up oil. Carrying on running it like this will cause wear and/or > damage. I have intentionally not run the TTY for more than a few lines just for this reason. > Do you have the 3 grey books for the ASR33? Volume 1 of the maintenance > manual covers lubrication. If I do, it's long buried. What's the synopsis for the area around the print hammer/type cylinder? Some letters print OK, some don't. The ones that don't do OK for the first one, but as I said, I have to manually press the cylinder back down to its locking position. How many types/grades of lubricants are there for a proper lube job on a TTY? > Reader run is another loop (and it's not part of the 'standard' loop > setup). Right. I located the conversion manual in the back of some 11/20 docs - how to turn a factory-fresh TTY into a DEC-modified ASR-33. > According to a PDP8/e printset, the pinout of the 8-pin mate-n-lock... > I seem to remember that's 'standard' on DEC devices. You may well need > the equiavlent of a null-modem cable to link a VT220 to the card (swap > (2,3) and (5,7)). That's the kind of thing I was looking for. > A word of warning. THere are several versions of the COM8116. The > 'standard' one, as used by Radio Shack in the TRS-80 uses a 5.0688MHz > clock. I have the standard one. We used it in an optional modem eliminator option for our sync serial boards. I have the xtals, too. Thanks for all the good info, Tony. Now if I could only locate the box of 20mA cables in the attic... -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From donm at cts.com Thu Dec 16 00:35:40 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: An easy one (after that db9 debacle!) In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991215154627.04068860@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > Ok, so my choice of terms was poor, y'all understood what I meant :-) > > This one should be easy. I've got an ESDI drive, I know that at one time it > had termination resistors in it, I know that I pulled them out, I put them > into my "drawer of misc resistor packs", they are effectively invisible :-) > > What is the resistor values for the term pack? 220/330? > > --Chuck That is what I have always found/used. - don From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 16 00:54:15 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:18 2005 Subject: An easy one (after that db9 debacle!) Message-ID: <002d01bf4792$5edcf700$0400c0a8@winbook> OOPS! I missed one . . . one of my pre-Seagate CDC drives does indeed use 220/330 termination resistor packs. It's the only one, as it turns out. Oddly enough, the MAXTOR, CDC, and Micropolis drives don't care whether the R-pack is installed or not, but the Miniscribe models won't work without them. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 15, 1999 11:42 PM Subject: Re: An easy one (after that db9 debacle!) > > >On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Chuck McManis wrote: > >> Ok, so my choice of terms was poor, y'all understood what I meant :-) >> >> This one should be easy. I've got an ESDI drive, I know that at one time it >> had termination resistors in it, I know that I pulled them out, I put them >> into my "drawer of misc resistor packs", they are effectively invisible :-) >> >> What is the resistor values for the term pack? 220/330? >> >> --Chuck > >That is what I have always found/used. > > - don > > From jpl15 at netcom.com Thu Dec 16 01:47:12 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Trade Massbuss for LP card? Message-ID: In the 11/44 system which is now occupying my evenings... there are three Massbuss adaptors [M5904]. I actually have an RA90+power supply out in the garage, condition unknown at this time.. I don't know anything at all about the Massbuss and it's peripherals, save that its serial and kinda fast. I have a DataProducts P300, that I think DEC called an LXY11... at any rate , this printer has a DataProducts standard interface. I believe there exist several Unibus cards that speak the Dataproducts protocol, I just can't find them in all the manuals around here. Yet. Would anyone like to have one (or two) of these M5904s in trade for a Unibus <-> DataProducts P300 card (and very hopefully cable)?? What are the general spec for an RA90? Is it worthwhile even attempting to attach it to the System? Another question: Has anyone any suggestions re: a good communications program for the 11/44 under RSTS/E? Cheers... and Best of the Season John From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 16 02:07:49 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Likely museum piece In-Reply-To: <199912160156.RAA06777@opus.allegro.com> Message-ID: I mentioned it once before, but there is a surplus guy down here in Socal with a 42 inch platter out of a Bryant hard drive hanging on his wall. I suspect not that high of an offer from a formal institution would pry it loose. Isn't this something that belongs in a museum? From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Dec 16 04:40:51 1999 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: "DB9" Message-ID: <80256849.003A2A63.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> Tony, quoting I can't remember whom: >> I once had a Mistubishi monitor which used a 'B'-shell with three coax >> connectors in it along with eight or nine signals on what looked to be >> otherwise standard pins. Just yesterday I discarded a badly damaged > > There's the 13W3 used on Sun workstations -- 3 coax pins and 10 normal > pins IIRC. B size shell, I think. It is indeed a B shell. The pins are numbered 1 to 5 (row at long edge of D), 6 to 10 (row at short edge), A1 A2 and A3 (coaxen), the ordinary pins being between A1 and A2. Goodness knows why it's sitting on my desk - I don't have a monitor to fit it (it's an adapter for Sun monitors into VGA cards that came with our sparcbook at work FWIW) Also for what it's worth, the Sun connector I have here is a D socket wit coax plugs embedded in it. ISTR IBM used an A-size shell with just the 3 coaxen on some of their monitors (6019 springs to mind). Dick Erlacher, earlier in the discussion: > The way I learned it was that the 'D' refers to the shape, the 'B' to the > shell size, and the number to the maximal pin count. The spacing is not > .050" however. It seems to me that it's larger than 0.10" andnot less, > except in the high-density versions like the DE15. How nice. Two apparently inconsistent answers, both of which are correct! The spacing between pins along a row is I think 0.1 inches. The spacing between rows I think is also 0.1 inches. So from a pin in one row to a pin in the other is around .112 inches, the "larger" spacing that Dick notes. However, if you move along the length of a D plug, every 0.05 inches there is a pin, and they line up nicely with 0.05 inch pitch ribbon cable (making the ribbon cable versions (marginally) easier to make than those for a 0.1" square matrix connector). And this is what I think our earlier correspondent meant by 0.05 inch spacing. Philip. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottingham, NG11 0EE, UK Tel: +44 (0)115 936 2000 http://www.powertech.co.uk ********************************************************************** From pat at transarc.ibm.com Thu Dec 16 08:57:22 1999 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Trade Massbuss for LP card? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, John Lawson wrote: > > In the 11/44 system which is now occupying my evenings... there > are three Massbuss adaptors [M5904]. I actually have an RA90+power > supply out in the garage, condition unknown at this time.. I don't > know anything at all about the Massbuss and it's peripherals, save > that its serial and kinda fast. The RH11 UNIBUS MASSBUS adapter actually consists of several boards: M5903 MASSBUS terminal tranceiver M5904 MASSBUS control tranceiver M7294 MASSBUS data buffer and control M7294-YA Modified M7294 for RH11-C (used on DECSYSTEM-2020) M7295 MASSBUS bus control (RH11-A only) M7295-YA Modified M7295 for RH11-B M7296 MASSBUS control and status registers M7297 MASSBUS parity control The appropriate boards live in their own section of backplane. (Does anyone know what the reason is behind Digital putting a "-YA" suffix on the module number of a board that's been modified somehow? Does it stand for "Yet Another"...? :-) ) The RA90 is an MSCP drive; you need a UDA50 to run it. MASSBUS drives are drives like the RP04/5/6 (washing-machine looking), and RM02/03/04/80 (not quite washing-machine size, but still pretty big). The RP07 is also a MASSBUS drive, but I am not sure if it will run off of an RH11 (I think it was originally meant to be attached to an RH20 interface on a DECsystem-10 or DECSYSTEM-20). --Pat. From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 16 09:31:56 1999 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Likely museum piece Message-ID: <19991216153156.42060.qmail@hotmail.com> Mike, Well, it doesn't have too much appeal as just a platter... it would have to be at least a disk pack, not just a single platter. Of course, the entire drive would be the best thing. Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Dec 16 09:33:39 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Trade Massbuss for LP card? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I have a DataProducts P300, that I think DEC called an LXY11... at > any rate , this printer has a DataProducts standard interface. I > believe there exist several Unibus cards that speak the Dataproducts > protocol, I just can't find them in all the manuals around here. Yet. LP-11, Any card that talks to LP11 and LP2x(lp25/26/27) all use the same interface (dataproducts. Allison From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Dec 16 09:49:13 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Trade Massbuss for LP card? References: Message-ID: <385909F9.8AB2E3E9@arrl.net> John Lawson wrote: > I have a DataProducts P300, that I think DEC called an LXY11... at > any rate , this printer has a DataProducts standard interface. I > believe there exist several Unibus cards that speak the Dataproducts > protocol, I just can't find them in all the manuals around here. Yet. The Dataproducts i/f youre looking is the M7930, LP11. We also use the M7258 LS11 interface here which can be jumpered for Dataproducts protocols, lots of jumpers. Got manuals for both so would be glad to help with your setup if needed. Nick From chris at mainecoon.com Thu Dec 16 10:01:21 1999 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Likely museum piece References: Message-ID: <38590CD1.41E73D39@mainecoon.com> Mike Ford wrote: > I mentioned it once before, but there is a surplus guy down here in Socal > with a 42 inch platter out of a Bryant hard drive hanging on his wall. I > suspect not that high of an offer from a formal institution would pry it > loose. Isn't this something that belongs in a museum? Bryant disk? Wasn't that the water cooled thing with the platters mounted in the vertical plane (that is, 90 degrees to what we're generally used to)? Last time I saw one of those it was being used as a sort of swap drive hanging off a customer built channel controller on a CDC6600 at LBL, must have been 1976. It was a relic even then. Seems like the platter belongs almost anywhere else other than on the wall of some surplus shop... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 16 10:22:59 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Likely museum piece Message-ID: <000e01bf47e1$d23a19e0$0400c0a8@winbook> Because of its size it will be tempting to mount it as the face of a clock, though. Without the rest of the hardware to make it work (which it probably didn't to all that well anyway) it isn't that interesting as a museum piece. It might as well stay where it is. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Chris Kennedy To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 16, 1999 9:09 AM Subject: Re: Likely museum piece >Mike Ford wrote: > >> I mentioned it once before, but there is a surplus guy down here in Socal >> with a 42 inch platter out of a Bryant hard drive hanging on his wall. I >> suspect not that high of an offer from a formal institution would pry it >> loose. Isn't this something that belongs in a museum? > > >Bryant disk? Wasn't that the water cooled thing with the platters mounted >in the vertical plane (that is, 90 degrees to what we're generally used to)? >Last time I saw one of those it was being used as a sort of swap drive >hanging off a customer built channel controller on a CDC6600 at LBL, >must have been 1976. It was a relic even then. > >Seems like the platter belongs almost anywhere else other than on the >wall of some surplus shop... > >-- >Chris Kennedy >chris@mainecoon.com >http://www.mainecoon.com >PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From jpl15 at netcom.com Thu Dec 16 10:37:43 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Trade Massbuss for LP card? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Dec 1999 allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > > I have a DataProducts P300, that I think DEC called an LXY11... at [snip] > > LP-11, Any card that talks to LP11 and LP2x(lp25/26/27) all use the same > interface (dataproducts. Bingo! Thanks again, Allison. This evening I'll plow thru the stacks of DEC Modules and see if one doesn't fall out of the pile somehow. Then there's the cable to wrangle up..... Cheers John From jpl15 at netcom.com Thu Dec 16 10:59:17 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Trade Massbuss for LP card? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, Pat Barron wrote: > On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, John Lawson wrote: > > > > In the 11/44 system which is now occupying my evenings... there [Snip] > > The RH11 UNIBUS MASSBUS adapter actually consists of several boards: > > > M5903 MASSBUS terminal tranceiver > -> M5904 MASSBUS control tranceiver > -> M7294 MASSBUS data buffer and control > M7294-YA Modified M7294 for RH11-C (used on DECSYSTEM-2020) > -> M7295 MASSBUS bus control (RH11-A only) > M7295-YA Modified M7295 for RH11-B > -> M7296 MASSBUS control and status registers > -> M7297 MASSBUS parity control > > The appropriate boards live in their own section of backplane. > Ah, so... I have the boards (as marked above) in the unit currently... just like you have described it. > > The RA90 is an MSCP drive; you need a UDA50 to run it. MASSBUS drives are Yup. I gathered this from the Peripherals Handbook that I fell asleep reading last night. O Well.. I got the RA 90 for $5 from a guy at the TRW Ham Swapmeet here in SoCal who thought it was a big power supply, because the power unit for the drive rides piggyback on it, and has a big rating plate that identifies it as a power supply. Thanks very much for your help! Cheers John From 101.246057 at germanynet.de Thu Dec 16 11:04:35 1999 From: 101.246057 at germanynet.de (Herbert Krammer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: OHIO Scientific Model 600 Roms wanted Message-ID: <199912161704.SAA27880@relay.germany.net> Hello there, I need rom dumps of an Ohio Scientific Model 600, cause on the board i own the rom or roms are missing. yours Herbert From jpl15 at netcom.com Thu Dec 16 11:06:30 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Trade Massbuss for LP card? In-Reply-To: <385909F9.8AB2E3E9@arrl.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, Nick Oliviero wrote: > > > John Lawson wrote: > > > I have a DataProducts P300, that I think DEC called an LXY11... at > > The Dataproducts i/f youre looking is the M7930, LP11. We also use the Tonite I will search my board inventory.. I *seem* to remember having one or two of these... but no doc that I know of. Thanks for your kind offer and info... I will certainly need to reference the manual at some point. Cheers John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 16 12:50:50 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: TTY and current loop questions (was Re: 20mA cabling questions) In-Reply-To: <19991216053148.11859.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 15, 99 09:31:48 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2165 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991216/1f225810/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 16 12:58:23 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: "DB9" In-Reply-To: <80256849.003A2A63.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Dec 16, 99 10:40:51 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2177 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991216/bcedf89d/attachment.ksh From eric at brouhaha.com Thu Dec 16 14:10:39 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Trade Massbuss for LP card? In-Reply-To: (message from John Lawson on Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:47:12 -0800 (PST)) References: Message-ID: <19991216201039.5390.qmail@brouhaha.com> John Lawson wrote: > In the 11/44 system which is now occupying my evenings... there > are three Massbuss adaptors [M5904]. [...] > Would anyone like to have one (or two) of these M5904s in trade > for a Unibus <-> DataProducts P300 card (and very hopefully cable)?? Presumably you're aware that the M5904 is only the transceiver module, and that it plugs into an RH11 backplane with several other modules to form a complete Massbus adapter. I could use an extra RH11. I'm not familiar with the P300, so I don't know exactly what printer interface would be required. I have two DEC LP06-YA drum printers and two LP26 chain printers which (according to the bill of sale) use "LP/LS-11" printer interfaces. It looks like there should be a spare interface card, so if that's what you need, I'd be happy to trade it. > I actually have an RA90+power > supply out in the garage, condition unknown at this time.. I don't > know anything at all about the Massbuss and it's peripherals, save > that its serial and kinda fast. It's parallel, with a 16-bit command/status bus and a 16 or 18 bit data bus. It was fast by mid-to-late 1970s standards. There's a reasonably good general overview in _Computer Engineering_. Cheers, Eric From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 16 17:26:41 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Wanted: Dec M7260 card Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991216172641.234fb36a@mailhost.intellistar.net> I need a card for a PDP 11/05. It's a M7260 (KD11-B Board #1: Data Paths). Does anyone have one that you're willing to part with for a reasonable price? Joe From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 16 15:33:18 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: TTY and current loop questions (was Re: 20mA cabling questions) In-Reply-To: References: <19991216053148.11859.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 15, 99 09:31:48 pm Message-ID: >> > Do you have the 3 grey books for the ASR33? Volume 1 of the maintenance >> > manual covers lubrication. >> >> If I do, it's long buried. What's the synopsis for the area around the >>print > >It's worth trying to find or borrow those manuals. They'll give you a lot >more information than I can provide by e-mail Its funny I offered those manuals to the list months ago, with nothing but postage only responses. I was just about to do the same again, and thought, before I do something stupid TWICE, I'll just peek at eBay. Bulletin 310B just sold for $305 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=207605235 Can't say I didn't give you all a chance once. ;) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 16 15:14:59 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Likely museum piece In-Reply-To: <19991216153156.42060.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >Well, it doesn't have too much appeal as just a platter... it would have to >be at least a disk pack, not just a single platter. Of course, the entire >drive would be the best thing. Do any of the Bryant drives still exist though? From what this guy tells me they were huge with hydrolic actuators. From chris at mainecoon.com Thu Dec 16 15:41:45 1999 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Likely museum piece References: Message-ID: <38595C99.CBD3E767@mainecoon.com> Mike Ford wrote: > Do any of the Bryant drives still exist though? From what this guy tells me > they were huge with hydrolic actuators. They were certainly hydraulic; I remember the drive at LBL weeping what looked like mil-5606. Used to mop it up with cat litter. No idea if any still exist. It'd be a little like finding an intact IBM MSS system somewhere... -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From cfandt at netsync.net Thu Dec 16 15:55:45 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: TTY and current loop questions (was Re: 20mA cabling questions) In-Reply-To: References: <19991216053148.11859.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19991216164154.00addba0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 01:33 PM 12/16/99 -0800, Mike Ford said something like: >>> > Do you have the 3 grey books for the ASR33? Volume 1 of the maintenance >>> > manual covers lubrication. >>> >>> If I do, it's long buried. What's the synopsis for the area around the >>>print >> >>It's worth trying to find or borrow those manuals. They'll give you a lot >>more information than I can provide by e-mail > >Its funny I offered those manuals to the list months ago, with nothing but >postage only responses. I was just about to do the same again, and thought, >before I do something stupid TWICE, I'll just peek at eBay. > >Bulletin 310B just sold for $305 > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=207605235 > >Can't say I didn't give you all a chance once. ;) Unbelievable. We had a short series of comments about that auction over on the Greenkeys list a week or so ago. One of the list members (Greenkeys) put them up for auction. He was surprised I suppose. Needless to say, we just shook our heads at the fact that these do turn up more often than not and that person who bid that much has to be some sort of newbie/clueless/whatever person who didn't wait for the next set of manuals to turn up on that auction site. Around a tenth of that bid price and less is in the normal price range for a set. Bid history shows even a second $300 bid :-/ As I mentioned before, I understand the ASR-33 manual will be eventually scanned and posted on some Greenkeyer's website. I'll try to mention it here when it happens for those interested. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 16 16:03:12 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: TTY and current loop questions (was Re: 20mA cabling questions) In-Reply-To: References: <19991216053148.11859.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991216160312.02ec8e40@pc> At 01:33 PM 12/16/99 -0800, Mike Ford wrote: >Bulletin 310B just sold for $305 >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=207605235 >Can't say I didn't give you all a chance once. ;) Below is the message I posted to the Greenkey (RTTY) mailing list a week or so ago about the sale of those manuals. I've got a set on loan from a ham from that list, and I've been meaning to find the time to scan them, assemble as PDFs, and burn to a CD-R. Haven't found the time in the last couple years, though. :-) - John >Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 09:24:06 -0600 >To: greenkeys@qth.net >From: John Foust >Subject: eBay ASR 33 manuals sold at $305... >Bcc: sheldon@ameritech.net >In-Reply-To: <384922C5.4BE698D9@rtty.com> > >At 06:18 AM 12/4/99 -0800, George B. Hutchison wrote: >>I do not know the current value of units such as this. I recently saw >>where some fool on ebay bid a humongous amount of money for some model >>33 manuals offered by a prominent GreenKeyer. We may be sitting on >>goldmines. > >Searching completed auctions, I see an ASR-33 tabletop in chipped >condition went for $133, with stand and chipped another went for $120. > >Greenkeyer Tom Kleinschmidt sold that ASR-33 manual set (Bulletin >310B volume 1 and 2) for an incredible $305.00. I think he offered >them to me for $30 or so a year or two ago, and I passed. Don loaned >me his set soon afterwards, and I've been promising to scan them and >upload them to the net or a CD-R ever since. See, Don, the manuals >have appreciated in value since I've been holding them for you. :-) > >I can't figure out eBay for the life of me. I sold an obscure, >four-year-old workstation hardware guide for $170. I, too, was >ready to give it away at nuisance-shipping prices until someone >told me it was "rare". Mind you, the Adobe PDF version of this >manual is available online for free, and SGI gave the paper >version away to anyone in their developer program. Go figure! > >If any Greenkeyer wants to get top-dollar for their old ASR-33s, >configure them with an RS-232 interface so they're ready to go for >someone who wants to connect it to their PC. Collectors really >go for the "well-oiled and well-loved" description, too. The >above ASR-33s sold in "as is" condition. > >- John > From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 16 16:08:30 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Surplus sightings In-Reply-To: <19991216201039.5390.qmail@brouhaha.com> References: (message from John Lawson on Wed, 15 Dec 1999 23:47:12 -0800 (PST)) Message-ID: Things I have seen recently in local (SoCal) surplus joints: Gaylord full of 5+ year old northern Telecomm cards with a Meridian 1 and various other bits. Pallets of stuff from MTI (sorry I don't know more, but its some DEC I think storage maker). Lots of full length metal chassis that fit in the larger roll around racks, and a couple of those racks (about 4 feet tall). Quite a few new in the static bag old cards, MTI, emulex, many little cards that seem to attach to the rear of drives to go in above chassis. Hunting in this mess is totally impractical (sealed static bags etc.), but if sufficient interest exists maybe I can get him to hold it for more snooping time later. Hints on what I should look for welcomed. Compaq Plus, suitcase with the keyboard on the bottom. ST19171FC drives, both new and used (looks too expensive to me $150+). Long cables with the HD68 connectors or maybe 68 pin (someday I will learn to id cables). One looks like a miniture centronics with the tab in the middle, and other is HD68 I think with closely spaced pins. Cable is FAT like half an inch and maybe 25+ feet long. From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Dec 16 16:07:07 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: USUS Pascal software library now online Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991216160707.00f87810@pc> A few weeks ago, someone sent me the disk images of their cache of the USUS Software Library, a collection of Pascal code dating from approximately 1978 to 1981. They sent volumes 1 through 29 of the US collection and volumes 3 and 4 of the USUS UK collection. After a few years of casual Web research, I've been unable to find anyone who'd admit to being the last of the Mohicans who ran this group. The collection is now online. I'd added a new section to my Jefferson Computer Museum at containing a short description of the USUS user group, the catalog of the files in the disks I have, and links to downloadable Zip files containing both .SVOL disk images and plain DOS text files that should be accessible to today's users. I improved my UCSD P-System disk tools to handle these .SVOL disk images. Windows executables of these are online, too. (My RT-11 disk tools were recompiled as result.) - John From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 16 18:47:52 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: House cleaning sale: AT&T 6300 GWBASIC & PS2 mdl 55SX manuals Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991216184752.0c071c6e@mailhost.intellistar.net> Found these books while house cleaning. (1) "Programmer's Guide, AT&T Personal Computer 6300 GWBASIC By Microsoft". Perfect condition in AT&T 3 ring binder. $10 plus 3.20 for priority mail. (the 6300 was made by Olivette and was a 8086 powered MS-DOS computer.) (2) Two clear plastic envelopes containing "IBM Personal System/2 Model 55 SX Quick Reference" and other papers/manuals and a disk. Never opened. $5 ea plus $3.20 for priority mail. Email directly if you're interested. Joe From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 16 16:10:59 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: TTY and current loop questions (was Re: 20mA cabling In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Dec 16, 99 01:33:18 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 825 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991216/4fd4c662/attachment.ksh From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 16 17:41:45 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: More eBay rambling In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at Dec 16, 99 01:33:18 pm Message-ID: >Only joking, but this hobby was a lot more fun when you could pick up old >manuals, prints, etc for just the cost of shipping... The parts manual is 1184B, see my listing for details http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221437574 Personally I like the present situation where you can hunt and hunt and hunt, find an old bit of treasure, make a photocopy for yourself and sell the original for $300 so you can go out and buy more toys. I LOVE letting collectors pay for my hobby. I will be plenty happy if it sells for even $20, but that is up to the eBay crowd now. BTW the advice given freely on this list is beyond price, $10 would be an insult, $500 is more like what some of its worth. Hmmmm. Now how will I word that eBay ad, vintage computer advice, one question answered per each high bid of a dutch auction perhaps? Dare me not to do it. ;) From marvin at rain.org Thu Dec 16 18:26:25 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: TTY and current loop questions (was Re: 20mA cablingquestions) References: <19991216053148.11859.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 15, 99 09:31:48 pm Message-ID: <38598331.4958A1BC@rain.org> Mike Ford wrote: > > Bulletin 310B just sold for $305 > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=207605235 > > Can't say I didn't give you all a chance once. ;) Take a look at the bid history and you will find only two people doing battle. If one of those people had not been bidding, the manuals would have sold for about $26 or so. From mikem at subether.com Thu Dec 16 18:27:26 1999 From: mikem at subether.com (Mike Morris) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: ADM5 or Votrax docs? Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991216162351.009cf1b0@mail.quake.net> Hi, Anyone happen to have any reference (or maintenance/schematics) documentation for an ADM-5? Also looking for configuration/operation info on a Votrax Personal Speech System Model 200. Thanks! - Mike From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Dec 16 19:10:35 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Good Day Message-ID: <013e01bf482b$86f10800$72701fd1@jrkeysppt> Well today was great I got the following all free just to haul it away !!!! 1. Commodore SX-64 portable not tested yet. 2. 14 cartridges for Vic20, C64. 3. 6 Softsmith cassette games for Vic20/C64 4. OSBORNE portable with mfg date of 7-17-82 have not fired it up yet. 5. Commodore C2N cassette player 6. 1541 drives 7. Tons of C64 software on diskettes, a large box full have not looked at it all 8. Another box of PC software, all types none 10 years old yet 9. A MPS-803 printer in the box like new. 10. Some Mac Plus stuff, KB and fan unit that goes on top. 11. Seiko UC-2200 handheld with Application Rom Pack UX012, built in printer, missing AC adapter for it. On back unit it also says Controller model UM01-020 ? 12. A couple more boxes full of stuff not 10 years old, all in all a pretty good haul for free. This same guy told me about another shop owner that is cleaning out all of the computer items in his shop and will give it away if someone hauls it all with NO picking. I hope to go over there Monday afternoon and pickup everything that he has. I was told he has some computers built in the 70's in a back room that he will toss out also. Will list the items next week if I'm lucky to get there before the trashman. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991216/da998835/attachment.html From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 16 21:24:41 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: ID this light pen Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991216212441.23179d54@mailhost.intellistar.net> Can anyone id this light pen? "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/lpen.jpg". It looks like it was built into the body of a standard ink pen. The components on the circuit board are covered with a black tar looking substance giving the board a bumpy look. There is a male card edge connector sticking out of the reverse side on the circuit board. There is a label on the pen that says "3G Gaston, Or. (503) 662-4492". Joe From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 16 19:44:15 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: ID this light pen In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991216212441.23179d54@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 16, 1999 09:24:41 PM Message-ID: <199912170144.RAA26961@shell1.aracnet.com> > Can anyone id this light pen? > "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/lpen.jpg". It looks like it was > built into the body of a standard ink pen. The components on the circuit > board are covered with a black tar looking substance giving the board a > bumpy look. There is a male card edge connector sticking out of the reverse > side on the circuit board. There is a label on the pen that says "3G > Gaston, Or. (503) 662-4492". > > Joe > Can't ID it, but it must have been a "Garage" company. Gaston is a speck on the map, if you can even find the speck! Hmmm, would that plug into the side of an Amiga 500 or what? Wierd. Zane From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 16 21:47:51 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: ID this light pen In-Reply-To: <199912170144.RAA26961@shell1.aracnet.com> References: <3.0.1.16.19991216212441.23179d54@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991216214751.0c079bb2@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 05:44 PM 12/16/99 -0800, you wrote: >> Can anyone id this light pen? >> "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/lpen.jpg". It looks like it was >> built into the body of a standard ink pen. The components on the circuit >> board are covered with a black tar looking substance giving the board a >> bumpy look. There is a male card edge connector sticking out of the reverse >> side on the circuit board. There is a label on the pen that says "3G >> Gaston, Or. (503) 662-4492". >> >> Joe >> > >Can't ID it, but it must have been a "Garage" company. Gaston is a speck on >the map, if you can even find the speck! Hmmm, would that plug into the >side of an Amiga 500 or what? Wierd. > > Zane > I *think* I remember seeing one like this on a Commodore Pet but I'm not sure. That was a long time ago. Does the Pet have a card edge connector or socket? Joe From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 16 20:27:41 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: TTY and current loop questions (was Re: 20mA cablingquestions) In-Reply-To: <38598331.4958A1BC@rain.org> References: <19991216053148.11859.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 15, 99 09:31:48 pm Message-ID: >Mike Ford wrote: >> >> Bulletin 310B just sold for $305 >> >> http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=207605235 >> >> Can't say I didn't give you all a chance once. ;) > >Take a look at the bid history and you will find only two people doing >battle. If one of those people had not been bidding, the manuals would have >sold for about $26 or so. Hmmm, maybe I should add something to my description, like "May be the last original copy not already in permanent collections." ;) Beyond *RARE*, this historically significant original document ... Contains the part numbers of ALL the components in the Teletype actually used by Bill Gates. Accept no substitutes, and protect yourself from the humiliation of losing out on this unique item and bid your maximum amount immediately. Deep pocket museums are sure to snap this item up as soon as they find it, but I have posted no notices in order to give the small investor a fair opportunity to own this bit of our computing history. Honor your corporate headquarters with the fascinating display this set of unique volumes can make. The stark reality of computing in the mechanical age brought out in vivid line drawings that will impress and amaze engineers and common folk alike. A genuine artifact of this early time in our history, you will be able to look with pride at the original document generations of caretakers of Teletype machinary have faithfully referenced to keep these classic icons of computing operational. Much admiration will certainly come to the lucky person who makes the winning bid, but my only concern is that the vast investment rewards possible be weighed against the need by future generations of Teletype owners to access the essential information contained in these volumes to keep their equipment running. Oh, yes, I think I have found my calling. ;) BTW just noting that neither of them got the "parts" manual. ;) From swolfe1 at mail.gcnet.net Thu Dec 16 20:35:05 1999 From: swolfe1 at mail.gcnet.net (swolfe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: PCjr Error Codes Message-ID: <003c01bf4837$54c28aa0$977003d1@lothar> I just got a PCjr, with a Quadram Floppy drive extension, and a parallel sidecar... It worked fine for a couple days, and then I booted it up and it checked up to 128k, and then reported Error A... does anyone have an error code list for the PCjr? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991216/0c2be8e2/attachment.html From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Dec 16 21:48:29 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Help identify a Control Data piece Message-ID: <199912170447.WAA06646@garcon.laidbak.com> A friend of mine who deals in surplus stuff got a piece in that I'm not familiar with. It resembles a RTR tape drive, but it doesn't have any heads AFAICT. Has the CD logo on it and some wording about changing knives.... This leads me to believe it's either something to do with paper tape or a mylar tape slitter. Any ideas? Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Dec 16 21:50:15 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Help identify a Control Data piece Message-ID: <991216225015.24600312@trailing-edge.com> >A friend of mine who deals in surplus stuff got a piece in that I'm >not familiar with. It resembles a RTR tape drive, but it doesn't have >any heads AFAICT. Has the CD logo on it and some wording >about changing knives.... This leads me to believe it's either >something to do with paper tape or a mylar tape slitter. > >Any ideas? Especially with the wording about "changing knives" and "doesn't have any heads", it sounds like a tape cleaner. Tim. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 16 22:34:02 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Help identify a Control Data piece In-Reply-To: <199912170447.WAA06646@garcon.laidbak.com> from "Paul Braun" at Dec 16, 1999 09:48:29 PM Message-ID: <199912170434.UAA29587@shell1.aracnet.com> > A friend of mine who deals in surplus stuff got a piece in that I'm > not familiar with. It resembles a RTR tape drive, but it doesn't have > any heads AFAICT. Has the CD logo on it and some wording > about changing knives.... This leads me to believe it's either > something to do with paper tape or a mylar tape slitter. > > Any ideas? The CD logo is odd, maybe some kind of device used in mastering CD's? Where are the knives? Could it be a tape cleaner? Zane From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Dec 16 22:51:31 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: ID this light pen Message-ID: <19991217045131.6982.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> --- Joe wrote: > At 05:44 PM 12/16/99 -0800, you wrote: > >> Can anyone id this light pen? > >> "http://www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/lpen.jpg". It looks like it was > >> built into the body of a standard ink pen. The components on the circuit > >> board are covered with a black tar looking substance giving the board a > >> bumpy look. There is a male card edge connector sticking out of the > >> reverse side on the circuit board. > >Hmm, would that plug into the side of an Amiga 500 or what? Wierd. No. Wrong number of pins. This device has 40. > I *think* I remember seeing one like this on a Commodore Pet but I'm not > sure. That was a long time ago. Does the Pet have a card edge connector or > socket? All PETs have a user port on the back that's an card edge. Original, static RAM models have a card edge connector for memory expansion. Later models had a pair of 40-pin pin connectors. Given the apparent 0.1" spacing on this device and the number of pins, I'd suspect that it's a TRS-80 device. I don't think it attaches to a Commodore of any vintage. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From swolfe1 at mail.gcnet.net Thu Dec 16 23:16:00 1999 From: swolfe1 at mail.gcnet.net (swolfe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Update on PCjr problem References: <199912170447.WAA06646@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: <002d01bf484d$cfd52fc0$636cc9d1@lothar> I've been messing with the PCjr all night! When the side car is pushed in, it seems to work fine.. if I push it all the way in, I get the error again... I'm really confused about this now... From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Dec 16 23:22:04 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L and TTY stuff (was Re: TTY and current loop questions) Message-ID: <19991217052204.23771.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > Do you have the 3 grey books for the ASR33? Volume 1 of the maintenance > > > manual covers lubrication. > > > > If I do, it's long buried. BTW, are these 8.5"x11" paper or 11"x17" paper? What's the synopsis for the area around the > Well, the general idea is to clean and dry the type cylinder and the > hammer face... One thing that I did mention and I'll mention again is that my hammer face is not original - I stuck on a rubber sticky foot and I suspect that it is part of the problem. I read here recently that someone has had luck with carved pink pearl erasers, but I haven't tried that. Worst case is I can nab the printing mechanism out of my wire-service TTY, the one with the 110 baud data set (modem) built into the pedestal. It doesn't fix this one, but it does get me up and running more quickly. The other thing that sticks is the line-feed mechanism. I can see the pawl on the back side of the ratchet at the left of the main roller and it doesn't always spring back up. Presumably it's another lube job waiting to happen. Neither of these teletypes has been stripped down in the 13+ years that I've owned them. To make matters worse, neither one has been powered on in ten years. I haven't had time to work with my classic machines until this year. > However, if it's actually sticking, then either something is bent or the > old oil is gumming it up (probably the latter). In which case _I'd_ > dismantle the carriage totally, clean all the parts in a suitable > solvent, put it together and oil it. I can get for under $15 a disposable carburetor solvent bath-in-a-can at a local auto parts store. Presumably, this is a suitable solvent. The print mechanism should fit nicely for immersion. > I did my first teletype without the manuals, but unless you had a > misspent youth like me dismantling and reassmbling everything in sight, > I'd not recomend it... With the manuals it's not too hard if you're > generally OK with hand tools. I used to disassemble sewing machines as a youth. I never tried putting them back together, but I'm OK with hand tools. I just repaired the works of an upright piano that I was gifted with - its problem was dried and cracked glue joints on one key mechanism and the entire damping bar. Obviously, a teletype has more moving parts than a piano, but there is a superficial resemblence. > > How many types/grades of lubricants are there for a proper lube job on a > TTY? > > 2 AFAIK. One is an oil. It's a light-ish (SAE 10 or thereabouts) engine > oil. I normally use the lighter of the 2 oils recomended for my Myford > lathe, as it's about right and I have an oilcan of it anyway. But any > light machine oil (NOT WD40!!) is OK. Sewing machine oil? "Three-in-one" brand general-purpose oil? Am I on the right track here? > The other is a grease. Just general-purpose high melting point grease, > like you'd use on a car (Oooops, modern cars don't have grease points > :-(). Castrol LM or something like that. I also restore Volkswagens. I know what a grease fitting is and how to operate a grease gun. (As an aside, I just got a 1975 Microbus in operating shape for $300 - it needs some work in the fuel injection system, but otherwise OK). > If you can find the manuals, I can talk you through taking the carriage > out and apart (the manaul is not that clear in places). Without them it's > going to be more difficult, if only because of problems in refering to > parts (with the parts list I can use Teletype part numbers). Maybe someone will eventually scan a set it as was mentioned here. Alternatively, there is always the route of borrowing, xoxing and returning a set. I was looking at things again tonight... the -8/L is not 100%. I had to remove the PSU to fix the loose fuse holder - it wasn't just loose, the side lug had a cold joint on it. I had to remove the mains-in and mains-out sockets to get room for my tools, but all is well on that front now. The problem is that the machine does not correctly run the RIM loader. If I put a halt (7402) instruction in low core, location 0, say or even 20 and I run the RIM loader, after reading in one character, the CPU halts at that low core instruction. If I single step things, it does not wander off into low core. Another wierd symptom is that pressing the START switch increments the PC address, but only on the same page (i.e., 7777 becomes 7600) OTOH, some programs do work. I wrote a quick-n-dirty echo test. It works fine with my VT220... 0200 6032 KCC 0201 6031 KSF 0202 5201 JMP .-1 0203 6036 KRB 0204 6046 TLS 0205 6041 TSF 0206 5205 JMP .-1 0207 5200 JMP 0200 Nevertheless, the RIM loader fails if I put the CPU in RUN mode without the single-step switch thrown. Back to the drawings. Sigh. Thanks again for the good info. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 16 23:44:51 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Help identify a Control Data piece Message-ID: <199912170544.VAA13942@spies.com> It is a mag tape cleaner. Eric Smith was looking for one a while back. From jpl15 at netcom.com Fri Dec 17 00:02:11 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: TTY and current loop questions (was Re: 20mA cablingquestions) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ford... yer one sick pup. But I don' mean dat inna *bad* way.... ;} John From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 17 08:54:58 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: The joke is on (Apple1) In-Reply-To: <199912170447.WAA06646@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: <199912171356.OAA04494@mail2.siemens.de> Another Jerk found his way - you may remember the guy who had anounced his Apple 1 auction for Dec.1 ? now he is on ... and he didn't change his hype making rubbish ... I belive he never used this computer, otherwise he must know a bit more math :) http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221015464 Servus Hans -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From relayer at dotplanet.com Fri Dec 17 07:18:42 1999 From: relayer at dotplanet.com (Jeff Salzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Commodore computer equipment in pristine condition Message-ID: <99121708280804.00713@wlinux01.hersheys.com> I have the following items for auction on eBay. I'm thinning out my collection of extras. These items are VERY well taken care of and include the original manuals (also in great shape). The auctions end Sunday evening, Dec 19. Commodore 64 http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221651946 Commodore 1541, white tone http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221617803 Commodore 1802 Monitor http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221646174 Seikosha SP-1000VC Dot Matrix Printer http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221605811 If you are looking for other Commodore items, let me know. I may have a spare that I can part with. Jeff Salzman From SeaMasterZ at aol.com Fri Dec 17 08:02:45 1999 From: SeaMasterZ at aol.com (SeaMasterZ@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: More eBay rambling, and the human factor Message-ID: <0.1131c7e1.258b9c85@aol.com> In a message dated 12/16/99 6:42:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, mikeford@socal.rr.com writes: << BTW the advice given freely on this list is beyond price, $10 would be an insult, $500 is more like what some of its worth. >> You know, that made me think about the gigabytes of human knowledge that is the engine behind this list, its stunning if you think about it, the "man" hours (women hours too, knuckle dragging Neanderthal here :o)~ involved in acquiring the knowledge and the collective pool that it represents ... mind boggling. And so, yet another question, this time on a truly ancient computer ... have any studies been done on estimating the speed and capacity of the human brain? I'm strictly a commodore 64, but there are some pentium III types out there ... as usual, just curious, thanks gang. Ray Cook From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Fri Dec 17 08:03:11 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Commodore computer equipment in pristine condition Message-ID: <0.33a57bba.258b9c9f@aol.com> In a message dated Fri, 17 Dec 1999 8:58:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, Jeff Salzman writes: > I have the following items for auction on eBay. I'm thinning out my collection > of extras. These items are VERY well taken care of and include the original > manuals (also in great shape). The auctions end Sunday evening, Dec 19. > > Commodore 64 > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221651946 > > Commodore 1541, white tone > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221617803 > > Commodore 1802 Monitor > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221646174 > > Seikosha SP-1000VC Dot Matrix Printer > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221605811 > > If you are looking for other Commodore items, let me know. I may have a spare that I can part with. > > Jeff Salzman Well, if you DO have more commodore items, why dont you offer them to members of the group FIRST, before selling on epay?? oh, i get it...more money that way. From dylanb at sympatico.ca Fri Dec 17 06:58:32 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: The joke is on (Apple1) Message-ID: <000601bf488e$6c962b80$1428d1d8@default> It's the *same* guy... and yes, it still does not work. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 8:57 AM Subject: The joke is on (Apple1) >Another Jerk found his way - you may remember the guy who had anounced >his Apple 1 auction for Dec.1 ? now he is on ... and he didn't change >his hype making rubbish ... I belive he never used this computer, otherwise >he must know a bit more math :) > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221015464 > >Servus >Hans > >-- >Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. >H.Achternbusch > From relayer at dotplanet.com Fri Dec 17 07:36:38 1999 From: relayer at dotplanet.com (Jeff Salzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Commodore computer equipment in pristine condition References: <0.33a57bba.258b9c9f@aol.com> Message-ID: <99121708531206.00713@wlinux01.hersheys.com> > Well, if you DO have more commodore items, why dont you offer them to members of the group FIRST, before selling on epay?? You're more than welcome to make an offer on an item........... I can cancel any auction that has not been bid on. I cannot cancel the C64 auction since a bid has already been posted. > oh, i get it...more money that way. No. Stuff doesn't go for that much anymore on ebay. But I am guaranteed a yes or no sale in as little as three days on ebay at an amount I feel helps me be able to afford unique items for my collection. I'm just getting rid of extras right now to make room for items I don't have. I've sold stuff before on other forums and kept getting the 'I'll let you know in a day or two' response which drags out for over a week. Jeff Salzman From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Dec 17 08:20:24 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Intro msg: Teraks, emulators, reviving cassette data Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991217082024.02324d80@pc> Why, I thought I'd get a few replies about my Terak computer collection, as described in my intro message on 11/18. Anyone out there have any experience with these? - John www.threedee.com/jcm From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 17 09:30:33 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:19 2005 Subject: Commodore computer equipment in pristine condition In-Reply-To: <99121708531206.00713@wlinux01.hersheys.com> Message-ID: <199912171432.PAA24342@mail2.siemens.de> > > Well, if you DO have more commodore items, why dont you offer > > them to members of the group FIRST, before selling on epay?? > You're more than welcome to make an offer on an item........... > I can cancel any auction that has not been bid on. I cannot cancel the C64 > auction since a bid has already been posted. > > oh, i get it...more money that way. > No. Stuff doesn't go for that much anymore on ebay. But I am guaranteed a yes > or no sale in as little as three days on ebay at an amount I feel helps me be > able to afford unique items for my collection. I'm just getting rid of > extras right now to make room for items I don't have. I've sold stuff before on > other forums and kept getting the 'I'll let you know in a day or two' response > which drags out for over a week. :) Storm in a water glas :) It wasn't exactly the kind of stuff where the members of this list might get upset ... Or do you have some hidden Commi treasures ? Just tell Uncle Hans - do it private, if you fear puvblicity :)) Servus hans -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Dec 17 08:32:47 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: Intro msg: Teraks, emulators, reviving cassette data [NEVER MIND] In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991217082024.02324d80@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991217083247.02ecfbd0@pc> At 08:20 AM 12/17/99 -0600, John Foust wrote: > >Why, I thought I'd get a few replies about my Terak computer >collection, as described in my intro message on 11/18. >Anyone out there have any experience with these? Never mind this. I think my Eudora is flaking out. Every once in a while, it re-sends an old message instead of one of the queued messages. Time for an upgrade, I think. - John From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Dec 17 08:45:38 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L and TTY stuff (was Re: TTY and current loop questions) In-Reply-To: <19991217052204.23771.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19991217083855.00ab43c0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 09:22 PM 12/16/99 -0800, Ethan Dicks said something like: > > >--- Tony Duell wrote: >> > > Do you have the 3 grey books for the ASR33? Volume 1 of the maintenance >> > > manual covers lubrication. >> > >> > If I do, it's long buried. > >BTW, are these 8.5"x11" paper or 11"x17" paper? 8.5 x 11. If they are originals still in their binders then you should be looking for medium grey-colored, 3/4" thick binders. > > What's the synopsis for the area around the > >> Well, the general idea is to clean and dry the type cylinder and the >> hammer face... > >One thing that I did mention and I'll mention again is that my hammer face >is not original - I stuck on a rubber sticky foot and I suspect that it is >part of the problem. I read here recently that someone has had luck with >carved pink pearl erasers, but I haven't tried that. Worst case is I can >nab the printing mechanism out of my wire-service TTY, the one with the 110 >baud data set (modem) built into the pedestal. It doesn't fix this one, but >it does get me up and running more quickly. > >The other thing that sticks is the line-feed mechanism. I can see the pawl >on the back side of the ratchet at the left of the main roller and it doesn't >always spring back up. Presumably it's another lube job waiting to happen. > >Neither of these teletypes has been stripped down in the 13+ years that I've >owned them. To make matters worse, neither one has been powered on in ten >years. I haven't had time to work with my classic machines until this year. > >> However, if it's actually sticking, then either something is bent or the >> old oil is gumming it up (probably the latter). In which case _I'd_ >> dismantle the carriage totally, clean all the parts in a suitable >> solvent, put it together and oil it. > >I can get for under $15 a disposable carburetor solvent bath-in-a-can at a >local auto parts store. Presumably, this is a suitable solvent. The print >mechanism should fit nicely for immersion. Whoah Nelly! This may not be good stuff to get near such equipment! There could be solvents which harm the rubber/plastic/painted parts contained in carb cleaner! I know toluene _used_ to be in Gumout brand carb cleaner back when I often worked on old cars. EPA and various states have put the hammer down on "volatile organic contaminants" used in industrial and consumer products and this may not be an issue nowadays but read the label and make sure you don't do further damage. Myself, I use kerosene _out of doors_ to wash down most of the non-rubber-touching components when doing a mechanical cleanup. You should firmly attempt to keep it away from the distributor and other electrical contacts. If you've got an air compressor, use a *low* pressure blowgun to help get the kerosene mostly blown away. WD-40 can be used to wash down parts but *don't* rely upon it as a lubricant. It is not! > >> I did my first teletype without the manuals, but unless you had a >> misspent youth like me dismantling and reassmbling everything in sight, >> I'd not recomend it... With the manuals it's not too hard if you're >> generally OK with hand tools. Well Tony, that's the best way to self-learn mechanical techniques that we could have ever experienced for ourselves. Hardly 'misspent' :-) > >I used to disassemble sewing machines as a youth. I never tried putting them >back together, but I'm OK with hand tools. I just repaired the works of an >upright piano that I was gifted with - its problem was dried and cracked glue >joints on one key mechanism and the entire damping bar. Obviously, a teletype >has more moving parts than a piano, but there is a superficial resemblence. > >> > How many types/grades of lubricants are there for a proper lube job on a >> TTY? >> >> 2 AFAIK. One is an oil. It's a light-ish (SAE 10 or thereabouts) engine >> oil. I normally use the lighter of the 2 oils recomended for my Myford >> lathe, as it's about right and I have an oilcan of it anyway. But any >> light machine oil (NOT WD40!!) is OK. > >Sewing machine oil? "Three-in-one" brand general-purpose oil? Am I on the >right track here? Very good is a synthetic oil like that recomended by a retired ex-TTY repairman. Sewing machine oil and 3-In-One both do not "dry out" hardly at all and could be used. Here's a msg from the Greenkeys list I kept on hand. Refers to the previous TTY generation Model 28's but it mostly applies to 33's too: Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 23:14:08 -0800 To: heathkit@juno.com X-UIDL: 885218092.751 From: Don Robert House Subject: [GreenKeys] Re: Maintenance of Teletype machines Cc: greenkeys@qth.net Sender: owner-greenkeys@qth.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Don Robert House Status: U Danny, You should lubricate the gears and bearings with a lithium grease and lubricate all of the felts with oil. The felts should not be white; if oiled properly they will be a gray or orange in color. I use One Lube by the Slick 50 folks, it lasts a long time; 2nd choice, use straight weight SAE 10 or 20 weight automotive oil. Use caution when lubricating the selector clutch, be sure to keep the oil away from the selector magnet. You can clean the selector magnet armature with bond paper. Petroleum jelly works pretty good on the type box and print hammer rails. Let me know if you would like any manuals on the 28 ASR. Don aka TTY MAN > >> The other is a grease. Just general-purpose high melting point grease, >> like you'd use on a car (Oooops, modern cars don't have grease points >> :-(). Castrol LM or something like that. > >I also restore Volkswagens. I know what a grease fitting is and how to >operate a grease gun. (As an aside, I just got a 1975 Microbus in operating >shape for $300 - it needs some work in the fuel injection system, but otherwise >OK). > >> If you can find the manuals, I can talk you through taking the carriage >> out and apart (the manaul is not that clear in places). Without them it's >> going to be more difficult, if only because of problems in refering to >> parts (with the parts list I can use Teletype part numbers). > >Maybe someone will eventually scan a set it as was mentioned here. >Alternatively, there is always the route of borrowing, xoxing and returning >a set. I've got a spare set you can borrow Ethan. We still have to continue anyway talking about a 33 I have on hand and a couple other things we were discussing several weeks ago and they can be sent along with. The above lube info should get you started with bringing life back into your 33. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 17 09:46:07 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: More eBay rambling In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199912171448.PAA02769@mail2.siemens.de> > >Only joking, but this hobby was a lot more fun when you could pick up old > >manuals, prints, etc for just the cost of shipping... > The parts manual is 1184B, see my listing for details > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221437574 > Personally I like the present situation where you can hunt and hunt and > hunt, find an old bit of treasure, make a photocopy for yourself and sell > the original for $300 so you can go out and buy more toys. I LOVE letting > collectors pay for my hobby. I will be plenty happy if it sells for even > $20, but that is up to the eBay crowd now. I'm still wondering who this arpanet guy is ... he's poping up a lot, even on way way senseless stuff. > BTW the advice given freely on this list is beyond price, $10 would be an > insult, $500 is more like what some of its worth. Hmmmm. Now how will I > word that eBay ad, vintage computer advice, one question answered per each > high bid of a dutch auction perhaps? Dare me not to do it. ;) Well, go ahead ... and then pay your dues.... you know the mythical man hour ? Some of us have real price tags :) Hans -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Fri Dec 17 07:17:44 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L and TTY stuff (was Re: TTY and current loop questions) Message-ID: <991217081744.246002c6@trailing-edge.com> >One thing that I did mention and I'll mention again is that my hammer face >is not original - I stuck on a rubber sticky foot and I suspect that it is >part of the problem. I read here recently that someone has had luck with >carved pink pearl erasers, but I haven't tried that. I think that was me. The erasers aren't nearly as durable as the original heavy rubber (after all, erasers *are* designed to wear away!) hammer face, but they are easily carved. I never saw any troubles in my ASR33 related to grunge wearing off the carved eraser, but then again I only ran it for a few hundred hours :-). -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From taussig at arpanet.com Fri Dec 17 11:41:48 1999 From: taussig at arpanet.com (Edward Taussig) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: More eBay rambling In-Reply-To: <199912171448.PAA02769@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: What's so senseless? On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Hans Franke wrote: >I'm still wondering who this arpanet guy is ... he's poping up a lot, >even on way way senseless stuff. > > >Only joking, but this hobby was a lot more fun when you could pick up old > > >manuals, prints, etc for just the cost of shipping... > > > The parts manual is 1184B, see my listing for details > > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221437574 > > > Personally I like the present situation where you can hunt and hunt and > > hunt, find an old bit of treasure, make a photocopy for yourself and sell > > the original for $300 so you can go out and buy more toys. I LOVE letting > > collectors pay for my hobby. I will be plenty happy if it sells for even > > $20, but that is up to the eBay crowd now. > > I'm still wondering who this arpanet guy is ... he's poping > up a lot, even on way way senseless stuff. > > > BTW the advice given freely on this list is beyond price, $10 would be an > > insult, $500 is more like what some of its worth. Hmmmm. Now how will I > > word that eBay ad, vintage computer advice, one question answered per each > > high bid of a dutch auction perhaps? Dare me not to do it. ;) > > Well, go ahead ... and then pay your dues.... you know the mythical > man hour ? Some of us have real price tags :) > > Hans > > -- > Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ > Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ > Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ > Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut > HRK > From wpe101 at banet.net Fri Dec 17 12:06:18 1999 From: wpe101 at banet.net (wpe101@banet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: Help identify a Control Data piece References: <199912170447.WAA06646@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: <385A7B9A.12D299D1@banet.net> Any way you can send me a picture? Years ago, I worked in a tape library that used a Control Data tape cleaner. The tape would pass over a the edge of a glass "knife", over a drum with a gauze like strip on it, and a head that checked the tape for "drops". At EOT, it would reverse itself, the previously used "knife" would drop, and another, on the other side of the machine would be raised to contact the tape. You had to change these "knives" after cleaning so many K feet of tape. What a boring job tape cleaning was.... Will Paul Braun wrote: > > A friend of mine who deals in surplus stuff got a piece in that I'm > not familiar with. It resembles a RTR tape drive, but it doesn't have > any heads AFAICT. Has the CD logo on it and some wording > about changing knives.... This leads me to believe it's either > something to do with paper tape or a mylar tape slitter. > > Any ideas? > > Paul Braun > NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. > nerdware@laidbak.com > www.laidbak.com/nerdware From sipke at wxs.nl Fri Dec 17 12:51:41 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: The joke is on (Apple1) References: <000601bf488e$6c962b80$1428d1d8@default> Message-ID: <385A863D.C8B10055@wxs.nl> The best joke about this auction is the fact that the description itself may become invaluable. It's a one of a kind hoax So for posterity's sake Fetch this: 1976 APPLE ONE (APPLE I) ANTIQUE COMPUTER This beautiful 1976 Apple-I Computer is the very first computer that started the Apple Computer Company from its legendary beginning in Steve Jobs' family garage. This computer includes all original: motherboard, cassette interface daughterboard, Operation Manual (with schematic inside), BASIC User's Manual, and cassette interface pamphlet, plus as an added extra, the book, "Woz: The Prodigal Son of Silicon Valley", by Doug Garr, Avon Books, 1984, which describes in great detail the history of the beginning of Apple Computer Co. Though I used this computer for a number of years a long time ago running its 4K BASIC language interpreter, it is being sold for display purposes only, not as a working unit. It is in very good condition and would make an extremely impressive and prestigous historic display not to mention its terrific investment value. EVIDENCE OF ITS RARITY 1. According to Steve Wozniak in a Byte Magazine interview in 1984, only 200 of them were actually made and of those only 175 were sold. Over the last 23 years many of them were likely discarded as obsolete, so very few of them have survived to today. 2. Very few people have *even heard* of the Apple-I -- exactly because of the fact it is so rare. Just ask a few friends -- or at work -- "What does an Apple-I Computer look like?" If you could ask 10,000 people that question, you'd likely get 9,999 blank looks and the response "A what?" This indicates to a degree that the Apple-1 is rare because it is so little known. 3. Another fact demonstrating its rarity is that even those few people who are familiar with it, usually incorrectly refer to it as the Apple-I using a Roman numeral I rather than the Arabic number 1. This is because of the non-rarity of the Apple-II and the assumption that the first Apple also had a Roman numeral designation. Thus the rarity of the computer is also shown by the general lack of knowledge of the correct name of the Apple-1, even by those small number of people who are aware of its existence. 4. Its rarity and historic importance is also demonstrated by the fact that one is displayed in the Smithsonian Museum in Washington D.C. The Smithsonian is probably the most important museum in the United States and likely the world, for exhibiting the originals of the most important inventions of our time. A LITTLE HISTORY OF THE APPLE-1 Steve Wozniak designed this computer and Steve Jobs largely did the sales and marketing for it. Here is a portion of page 72 of Doug Garr's book "Woz: The Prodigal Son of Silicon Valley": "First they [Jobs and Wozniak] needed investment capital. Jobs had an old VW microbus and Wozniak had a fancy H-P [Hewlett-Packard] calculator. They sold them both and raised about thirteen hundred dollars. Jobs would ride his bicycle around Silicon Valley, and Woz would have to borrow a calculator or do his arithmetic by hand. They needed a space to work. Jobs commandeered his family garage..." On page 74: "During 1975-76, the time Jobs and Wozniak built those first computers (then called just the "Apple" and now known as the Apple I), their business didn't exactly flourish. Only about 175 computers (Apple I's) were sold." WHAT IS THE VALUE OF THE APPLE-1 IN 1999? On my web page http://members.cts.com/sd/d/dave314x I have provided *actual images* of the verifiable documentation of the value of this item in specific years: Here is a summary of that documentation on my web page: 1976 $ 666 (new) - Byte Magazine, Dec. 1984, page A69, column 1, Interview with Steve Wozniak. 1984 $ 12,500 - Book: "Woz, The Prodigal Son of Silicon Valley, ISBN 0-380-88484-4, published 1984, states on page 106, middle-of-page: "(The Apple I is considered a valuable antique, and today it can fetch between ten and fifteen thousand dollars.)" 1997 $40,000+ - Computer Resource Magazine, Oct. 31, 1997, Vol. 5, No. 5, Article "The Retro Computer Revolution" by Bob McPhail, page 24, col. 1, middle-of-page: "(The Apple I isn't really considered a realistic collectible since the estimated price on one of these if it was put on sale would be in the $40,000 range according to some collectors)." - Internet link to Computer Science Club, Univ. of California at Davis http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~csclub/museum [last updated 7/4/98] (A clickable link is on my web page at: http://members.cts.com/sd/d/dave314x). The Computer Club states: "The estimated current value of an Apple I exceeds $40,000!" 1999 $ 59,000+ - Estimated using compound annual growth rate of 21.5% which were the actual increases in the period 1976-97. 2009 $ 414,000+ - Projected using the same compound annual growth rate of 21.5% that actually took place in the 21-year period 1976-97 and applying it to the 10-year period 1999 to 2009. MATH CALCULATIONS OF VALUES FOR 1999 AND 2009 The computer increased in value from 1976-1997: $666 to $40,000 which is a 60.06 times increase (40,000/666). Theoretically, if you had deposited $666 in XYZ Bank in 1976 and without any further deposits at anytime, you saw in 1997 that you had a balance of $40,000 -- how much would the interest rate have been in the preceding 21 years, if it had been compounded annually? The answer is 21.5% because 1.215 times itself for 21 years (1.215 to the 21st power) is 59.72 which is very near to 60.06 In equation form: 666 x (1.215)^21 = 39,773 which is approx. 40,000 THE VALUE OF APPLE-1 IN 1999 To calculate the estimated value for 1999 using the 1997 value of $40,000+ we merely add 2 years of compounding to the 1997 value. The 1997 value is 40,000+ and 2 years of compounding is 1.215 multiplied by itself 2 times: (1.215)^2 = 1.4762 The 1997 value ($40,000+) x 1.4762 = $59,048+ [Note: I have carried the "+" sign through the equation because these are MINIMUM values.] So the estimated value for 1999 is $59,000+ by using the 1997 value of $40,000+ (which came from two independent verifiable sources) and then adding 2 years of compounding at the same compounding rate that actually existed in the 21-year period '76-'97. WHAT WILL THIS APPLE-1 LIKELY BE WORTH IN 2009? -- WHEN YOU WANT TO RETIRE? -- WHEN YOU MAY WANT TO BUY A NEW HOME? -- WHEN YOU MAY WANT TO START YOUR OWN BUSINESS THAT WILL REQUIRE SEVERAL HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS JUST TO GET STARTED? -- WHEN YOU NEED TO PAY FOR YOUR CHILDRENS' HIGHER EDUCATION AT A HIGHER-QUALITY COLLEGE OR UNIVERSITY? The answer is: about $400,000 if the same rate of increases that actually occurred in the last 20+ years continues for just 10 more years. This is a projection of what the value of the Apple-1 would be if the same rate of increase that actually existed in the 21-year period '76 thru '97 continues for the 10-year period 1999 thru 2009. This assumption is conservative because as time marches on, and items get older and older, their historic importance increases at an accelerated rate, not a linear rate (a linear rate is the same exact rate each and every year). Consider valuable Van Gogh, Rembrandt or Renoir paintings auctioned at Christie's or Sotherby's. They sell items at increasingly higher and higher prices at an accelerated rate not a linear rate because the prices are not based on a painting's original value (say a thousand dollars equivalent) but are instead based on what the last (most recent) price was. One asks "What did it sell for last time?" not "How much did this painting sell for when Van Gogh originally sold it as new?" It is a conservative approach to using a linear rate: a 21.5% increase each and every year for the 10-year period '99 -'09, rather than an accelerated rate where 21.5% increases, say to, 25%, then 28%, then 30%, etc. The reason the $ 414,000 projected value in 2009 "seems" high is because the historic growth rate of 21.5% is itself so high. And that rate has already been determined by the marketplace. It is just a simple fact that this valuable Apple-1 has historically had very high increases in value since its inception. That's very good for the owner. You want to be the next owner. You want to own something that has a very high annual compound appreciation rate. Albert Einstein was once asked: "What is the most powerful force in the Universe?" After a moment of thought he responded: "Compound interest." This Apple-1 is a terrific way to get more than 21% annual compound interest on your money. 10-year U.S. Treasury bonds provide only about 6% interest and that's simple interest NOT compound interest. This Apple-1 antique is truly is a very special investment opportunity. If you have no interest in computers, history, or technology, but are interested in a very high-growth investment, then this Apple-1 is for you. If you are also interested in computers, history and prestige -- this deal is even juicier! A FEW QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS Q. Why are you selling it? A. For the MONEY! Right now, I have some very specific things I would like to buy and do, but to be able to do so, I am willing to sell my Apple-1 which I have owned for almost 20 years. Q. Why not wait until 2009 when you'll get a really super price? A. I want to buy some things NOW, and do some things NOW. I prefer not to wait 10 more years. I've already waited almost 20 years. Q. Shouldn't it be worth less since it is being sold as a non-working model? A. No. Antique electronics that are exhibited in a museum or elsewhere are not expected to run as new for several reasons: risk of damage from heat, fire, and smoke due to aging components which have changed values and normally get warm or hot, like resistors, transformers, power transistors, inductors, and IC's. Also, replacing with new parts would reduce its value as an antique because it is desirable to have all original parts. There would be substantial risks and costs associated with trying to keep a very old device in working order due to lack of documentation for maintenance and repair, not to mention finding a *reliable* source to buy replacement parts of obsolete components. Also consider the specialized training required of an employee to maintain and repair an antique device -- with no factory or store support to answer technical questions for a product that has long since had its technical support terminated. One would be hard pressed to recall visiting a museum that had any antique electronic devices actively working, like a 1955 transistor radio, a 1938 TV-kinescope, or a 1921 vacuum-tube radio. The purpose of such exhibits is simply to show what the device looked like in real life rather than having to resort to a photograph. A Model-T Ford that is on exhibit in a museum is no less valuable just because it doesn't travel down a road on its own power using ancient fuel for an ancient engine. The fact that an antique device still works like new or not is just not important in determining its present value. TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF SALE PAYMENT. Form of payments accepted are: cashier's check, money orders, personal checks, and bank wire. Once all payments clear my account, I will ship within 24 hours. Payment must be in U.S. dollars. INSURANCE. Buyer agrees to buy and prepay shipping insurance in an amount that at least covers the dollar amount of the sale. SHIPPING. F.O.B. Oceanside California. I will ship any method requested by Buyer. Buyer agrees to prepay all shippping and insurance costs and fees. Seller will ship internationally. Seller will immediately mail to Buyer, under separate cover, copies of all shipping and insurance documents once they have been created, as well as immediately e-mail or fax to Buyer notification of actual date and time of shipment with appropriate information to enable tracking of the shipment. MORE INFO. More info and photos -- including verifiable documentation for valuation analysis is available at my web site: http://members.cts.com/sd/d/dave314x It's definitely worth the click. HAVE SOME QUESTIONS? E-mail me at dave314x@cts.com Sipke de Wal From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Dec 17 13:02:59 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L and TTY stuff (was Re: TTY and current loop questions) In-Reply-To: <991217081744.246002c6@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991217110145.00b37b40@mcmanis.com> Of course Western Numerical control sells replacement pads for $3-$4 and they work as designed so why would you even want to try a kludge? (www.westncinc.com IIRC) --Chuck At 08:17 AM 12/17/99 -0500, Tim wrote wrote: > >One thing that I did mention and I'll mention again is that my hammer face > >is not original - I stuck on a rubber sticky foot and I suspect that it is > >part of the problem. I read here recently that someone has had luck with > >carved pink pearl erasers, but I haven't tried that. > >I think that was me. The erasers aren't nearly as durable as the >original heavy rubber (after all, erasers *are* designed to wear away!) >hammer face, but they are easily carved. > >I never saw any troubles in my ASR33 related to grunge wearing off the >carved eraser, but then again I only ran it for a few hundred hours :-). From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 17 13:06:29 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: More eBay rambling, and the human factor In-Reply-To: <0.1131c7e1.258b9c85@aol.com> Message-ID: >And so, yet another question, this time on a truly ancient computer ... have >any studies been done on estimating the speed and capacity of the human >brain? I'm strictly a commodore 64, but there are some pentium III types out >there ... as usual, just curious, thanks gang. >Ray Cook What I have heard is that the human brain can process between a dozen and two dozen "transactions" per second. I/O is typically the weak link, but some optimized channels like reading or typing seem to run off some sort of "subsystem" with less load on the mainframe. What is good is that some of the "transactions" like identify image are quite impressive compared to non biological units. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Dec 17 13:39:55 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L and TTY stuff (was Re: TTY and current loop questions) Message-ID: <19991217193955.1233.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> --- Chuck McManis wrote: > Of course Western Numerical control sells replacement pads for $3-$4 and > they work as designed so why would you even want to try a kludge? > (www.westncinc.com IIRC) Thanks for the tip. I knew someone sold them. I'll be placing an order today. I need some paper rolls anyway. I'm down to a couple of very oxidized and brittle ones. I might as well order a couple of rolls of oiled tape. All I have right now is the fanfold stuff for my PC8I (I know it works, but I want some rolled stuff that won't have creases to catch in the TTY reader). -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Dec 17 13:53:55 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L and TTY stuff (was Re: TTY and current loop questions) Message-ID: <19991217195355.15830.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> --- Christian Fandt wrote: > The above lube info should get you started with bringing life back into > your 33. > > Regards, Chris As of today, it's not just mine that needs work... a long-time geek friend of mine was at our usual Friday Geek Chinese Lunch (17 years in the same restaurant!). I asked him about TTYs. I mentioned that he has four of various models in various states and wants to end up with one cleaned up unit and one set of docs. He has a couple KSR-33s, one KO-33(?) and one ASR-33. Some are missing covers, most are missing pedestals, none are fully up and running. The plan is to help him get one good set going and then I get to haul away the remainders as parts (unless I can get something working out of what's left). Maybe I'll go over to his house and learn on *his* equipment, then go home and work on my own. ;-) Nah... I'm too impatient to wait that long... I _really_ want to get an LT-33 up and running for my -8s. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 17 12:58:16 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: Help identify a Control Data piece In-Reply-To: <199912170447.WAA06646@garcon.laidbak.com> from "Paul Braun" at Dec 16, 99 09:48:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 400 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991217/e7777e20/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 17 13:00:41 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: ID this light pen In-Reply-To: <19991217045131.6982.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 16, 99 08:51:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 593 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991217/e7048275/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 17 13:16:02 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L and TTY stuff (was Re: TTY and current loop questions) In-Reply-To: <19991217052204.23771.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 16, 99 09:22:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 5758 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991217/44f2dca3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 17 12:57:20 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PCjr Error Codes In-Reply-To: <003c01bf4837$54c28aa0$977003d1@lothar> from "swolfe" at Dec 16, 99 09:35:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 511 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991217/55eb6028/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 17 13:27:45 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L and TTY stuff (was Re: TTY and current loop In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991217083855.00ab43c0@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Dec 17, 99 09:45:38 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2489 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991217/ae4b5b2b/attachment.ksh From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 17 15:11:24 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: More eBay rambling In-Reply-To: References: <199912171448.PAA02769@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: <199912172013.VAA11863@mail2.siemens.de> > On Fri, 17 Dec 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > >I'm still wondering who this arpanet guy is ... he's poping up a lot, > >even on way way senseless stuff. > What's so senseless? Is it you ? ET :))) Thats a cute one (SCNR). I try to check all before I'm bidding on an item to see if a known (in my memory) list member is on, so I can decide if I pass it, put just a watch bid on, or go onto war (BTW: I want to get the DG and the STWP kit :). Now, some stuff where I noticed the name are, at least in my eyes crap. My opinion. And I've seen the name alot. I never followed these auctions, so I don't know if some of them might also be only watch bids. Just my impression. Servus Hans -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Dec 17 14:17:08 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L and TTY stuff (was Re: TTY and current loop questions) Message-ID: <19991217201708.24593.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> --- CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > >One thing that I did mention and I'll mention again is that my hammer face > >is not original - I stuck on a rubber sticky foot and I suspect that it is > >part of the problem. I read here recently that someone has had luck with > >carved pink pearl erasers, but I haven't tried that. > > I think that was me. The erasers aren't nearly as durable as the > original heavy rubber (after all, erasers *are* designed to wear away!) > hammer face, but they are easily carved. I just ordered some replacement rubber hammer faces from Western Numeric Control along with some oiled paper tape and a couple of paper rolls. I don't have an exact total, but I just dropped about a hundred bucks including shipping. Fortunately for my pocket book, I have several boxes of dry fan-fold tape for my high-speed punch. I just checked the box - some black, some grey and one box of genuine "PDP" papertape from DEC. Now back to cleaning and lubrication. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Fri Dec 17 14:18:06 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: Intro msg: Teraks, emulators, reviving cassette data In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991217083247.02ecfbd0@pc> from "John Foust" at Dec 17, 99 08:32:47 am Message-ID: <199912172018.MAA13899@saul7.u.washington.edu> John Foust started talking to himself and wrote: > At 08:20 AM 12/17/99 -0600, John Foust wrote: > > > >Why, I thought I'd get a few replies about my Terak computer > >collection, as described in my intro message on 11/18. > >Anyone out there have any experience with these? > > Never mind this. I think my Eudora is flaking out. Every once > in a while, it re-sends an old message instead of one of the > queued messages. Time for an upgrade, I think. Are you sure you're not just living in the past? :) -- Derek From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 17 13:35:04 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: Commodore computer equipment in pristine condition In-Reply-To: <0.33a57bba.258b9c9f@aol.com> Message-ID: >> If you are looking for other Commodore items, let me know. I may have a >>spare that I can part with. >> >> Jeff Salzman > > >Well, if you DO have more commodore items, why dont you offer them to >members of the group FIRST, before selling on epay?? >oh, i get it...more money that way. Many of us on this list, and other lists as well have very different views on commerce. If we wish to keep this list a pleasant place, a bit more respect for views that differ from our own is required. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Dec 17 16:42:56 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: ID this light pen In-Reply-To: References: <19991217045131.6982.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991217164256.20ffd7fe@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 07:00 PM 12/17/99 +0000, Tony wrote: >> No. Wrong number of pins. This device has 40. > >[...] > >> >> Given the apparent 0.1" spacing on this device and the number of pins, I'd >> suspect that it's a TRS-80 device. I don't think it attaches to a Commodore >> of any vintage. > >Well, the TRS-80 model 1 has a 40 pin card edge on the back (i.e. it's a >male connector on the machine requiring a female connector on the device) >for the expansion bus. > >The CoCo (all models) has a 40 pin edge socket on the machine (i.e. >requiring a male card edge on the device) for the cartridge port (which >is really a full expansion bus. > Tony. You might be right. I just tried it on my Trash-1 and it fits perfectly. Joe From elvey at hal.com Fri Dec 17 14:47:53 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: The joke is on (Apple1) In-Reply-To: <385A863D.C8B10055@wxs.nl> Message-ID: <199912172047.MAA02595@civic.hal.com> Sipke de Wal wrote: > The best joke about this auction is the fact that the description > itself may become invaluable. It's a one of a kind hoax > So for posterity's sake Fetch this: > > 1976 APPLE ONE (APPLE I) ANTIQUE COMPUTER buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > > HAVE SOME QUESTIONS? E-mail me at dave314x@cts.com > > Sipke de Wal Why do I feel like I was just spammed? Dwight From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Fri Dec 17 15:21:43 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: IBM XT available (fwd) Message-ID: <199912172121.NAA13355@saul7.u.washington.edu> I'm forwarding this for a non-subscriber. Remember to reply to the original sender (paulkruse@juno.com). > Here's someone wanting to find a new home for an IBM PC/XT. Please reply > to the original sender. > > Reply-to: paulkruse@juno.com > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1999 01:23:04 -0800 > From: Paul Kruse > Subject: I would like to donate IBM PC/XT > > I have an IBM XT, keyboard & monitor, in good working condition that is > not being used. > > Please reply to paulkruse@juno.com as I may not carry this email address > for long. From dpeschel at u.washington.edu Fri Dec 17 15:23:59 1999 From: dpeschel at u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: The joke is on (Apple1) In-Reply-To: <199912172047.MAA02595@civic.hal.com> from "Dwight Elvey" at Dec 17, 99 12:47:53 pm Message-ID: <199912172124.NAA03492@saul7.u.washington.edu> Dwight Elvey wrote: > Sipke de Wal wrote: > > The best joke about this auction is the fact that the description > > itself may become invaluable. It's a one of a kind hoax > > So for posterity's sake Fetch this: > > > > 1976 APPLE ONE (APPLE I) ANTIQUE COMPUTER > buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz buzz > buzz buzz buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz > > > > HAVE SOME QUESTIONS? E-mail me at dave314x@cts.com > > > > Sipke de Wal > > > Why do I feel like I was just spammed? I don't know (probably because that description is pretty lousy). But we know you know you're not going to buy the computer, unlike with normal spam. Besides, it IS a pretty funny piece of writing. -- Derek From cfandt at netsync.net Fri Dec 17 15:23:58 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L and TTY stuff (was Re: TTY and current loop In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19991217083855.00ab43c0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <4.1.19991217154351.00afd100@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 07:27 PM 12/17/99 +0000, Tony Duell said something like: >> >I can get for under $15 a disposable carburetor solvent bath-in-a-can at a >> >local auto parts store. Presumably, this is a suitable solvent. The print >> >mechanism should fit nicely for immersion. >> >> Whoah Nelly! This may not be good stuff to get near such equipment! There >> could be solvents which harm the rubber/plastic/painted parts contained in >> carb cleaner! I know toluene _used_ to be in Gumout brand carb cleaner back >> when I often worked on old cars. > >That's why (IMHO) you should dismantle it fully first. Most solvents >should be fine on the metal parts, but take care with plastic and rubber >parts. I normally use propan-2-ol for those, as it doesn't seem to >do any damage. > >For the metal parts, I either use Electrolube 'Electronic Cleaning >Solvent' (which seems to be a hydrocarbon mixture but I am not sure), or >white sprit (sold for thinning paint, cleaning paint brushes, etc in the We call it 'mineral spirits' over here. And propan-2-ol is called Isopropyl Alcohol over here. Use a lab grade or at least 91% grade because the cheaper grades have high water content (rubbing alcohol is one example, 70% H2O.) The water will make it rather difficult to clean off the oils and greasy grime, etc. from surfaces. >UK). If that doens't work, then petrol (gasoline) is a good decreasing >solvent, if used with care, outside, away from any source of ignition. >Obviously, only use any solvent in a well-ventillated area. There is a degree of toxicity with gasoline regardless if it is now lead-free. Don't let it be absorbed thru the skin and don't breathe too many vapors!! Use it only if you have to. > >> >> EPA and various states have put the hammer down on "volatile organic >> contaminants" used in industrial and consumer products and this may not be > >Yes, a pain, isn't it. I am not at all convinced that the replacements, >especially considering the extra quantities I have to use to do the same >job, are any better for the environment. > >> >> I did my first teletype without the manuals, but unless you had a >> >> misspent youth like me dismantling and reassmbling everything in sight, >> >> I'd not recomend it... With the manuals it's not too hard if you're >> >> generally OK with hand tools. >> >> Well Tony, that's the best way to self-learn mechanical techniques that we > >It's the _only_ way :-)... > >Sometimes I wonder if the reason why I can still fix things is that I am >NOT a 'factory trained technician' or anything similar. I've _had_ to >work out how things work and how to adjust them from first principles in >a lot of cases. Which means I am not likely to get confused by some case >that wouldn't have been covered in the 'training' Exactly. > >> could have ever experienced for ourselves. Hardly 'misspent' :-) > >Hang on... Are you saying the fixing things yourself without the manuals >is a way for you to learn how to do it, or that _me_ fixing my stuff >leads to me posting how to do it here? The former is certainly true. The >latter, well.... Yes, I'm saying the former is true. I am refering that the time was *not* misspent when you, me and others here simply rolled our sleeves up and dove into a problem if there had been no technical reference available. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From swolfe1 at mail.gcnet.net Fri Dec 17 15:56:05 1999 From: swolfe1 at mail.gcnet.net (swolfe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PCjr Error Codes References: Message-ID: <000201bf48db$b3eaa400$246cc9d1@lothar> Yes, that's it... The system is working again. I'm going to run through it again and see if I can find any bad memory chips that I'll have to replace... Thanks a bunch! Shane Wolfe CS Student Frostburg State University ----- Original Message ----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Friday, December 17, 1999 1:57 PM Subject: Re: PCjr Error Codes > > I just got a PCjr, with a Quadram Floppy drive extension, and a parallel = > > > > sidecar... It worked fine for a couple days, and then I booted it up and = > > > > it checked up to 128k, and then reported Error A... does anyone have an = > > > > error code list for the PCjr? > > I've got a ROM BIOS source listing... > > Assuming I'm reading it right, the 'customer' error codes are the first 2 > characters (high byte) of the full 'manufacturing' error codes. Code 0A > is a planar bd (motherboard) RAM problem > > -tony > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 17 17:00:01 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L and TTY stuff (was Re: TTY and current loop questions) In-Reply-To: <19991217195355.15830.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 17, 99 11:53:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 911 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991217/d3ff6a0e/attachment.ksh From nate at nutopia.org Fri Dec 17 17:56:33 1999 From: nate at nutopia.org (Nate Grady) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PDP11 Message-ID: hi, I'm resurrecting a pdp-11/05 (hopefully) but I don't have anything in the way of docs. I was wondering if anyone could send me some info on a) the power connectors (I'm slowly trying to trace them around to make sure it's ok - I don't really trust a 25 year old power supply too much (-: ) and b) info about the current-loop interface. I'd like to convert it to ttl or rs/232 but I haven't been able to find any docs on the subject of current loops so all my info right now is speculation )-: thanks, -Nate Grady nate@logicprobe.org / nate@nutopia.org / nate@netsync.net (etc...) http://nate.nutopia.org "Diplomacy is the art of letting the other party have things your way." -- Daniele Vare "In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." --Douglas Adams From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 17 17:17:33 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PDP-8/L and TTY stuff (was Re: TTY and current loop In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991217154351.00afd100@206.231.8.2> from "Christian Fandt" at Dec 17, 99 04:23:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2484 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991217/f09b3979/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 17 18:31:17 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PDP11 In-Reply-To: from "Nate Grady" at Dec 17, 99 06:56:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1420 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991218/ed455c0a/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Dec 17 20:04:46 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: H9278-A is this Q/CD or Q/Q Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991217175026.01bdaa80@mcmanis.com> I'm trying to bring a Vaxstation 3200 back to life. It had been depopulated but I've got all the boards. It is in a BA23 chassis. Now my previous experience with uVAXen in BA23's was that the first 3 slots were Q/CD and the rest were Q/Q with a serpentine bus. However trying to set up the boards this way yielded some very strange results. Not the least of which was no response by the disk controller. The other oddity was the dual hard drive control switches on the panel. The chassis is marked: VS31V-B2 Which the module database lists as: 650QV-A2,CLR,MS650-AA,VCB02,DELQA-M,CK-DELQA-YP,2 M9047,BC18Z-25,120V If I read this correctly, then the stock configuration on this box was: 1 KA660 ---------------- 2 clear 3 MS650-AA ------------- 4 VCB02 5 VCB02 (4 plane) 6 VCB02 (4 plane) 7 DELQA M09047 8 M9047 ??? The backplane is marked Micro-11 and H9278-A which is described as: Q22 BUS BACKPLANE, 8 QUAD SLOTS Which sounds a whole lot like Q/CD all the way down to me. Anyone know for sure? I'll be trying it out shortly so I may figure it out empirically. :-) I guess the real question is "Quad slot" code for "Q/CD" slot? --Chuck From eric at brouhaha.com Fri Dec 17 20:11:15 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: H9278-A is this Q/CD or Q/Q In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991217175026.01bdaa80@mcmanis.com> (message from Chuck McManis on Fri, 17 Dec 1999 18:04:46 -0800) References: <4.2.0.58.19991217175026.01bdaa80@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <19991218021115.13969.qmail@brouhaha.com> Chuck McManis wrote: > If I read this correctly, then the stock configuration on this box was: > 1 KA660 ---------------- > 2 clear > 3 MS650-AA ------------- Won't work. The memory has to be adjacent to the CPU, due to the way the C/D slots daisy chain. I know the KA650 and KA655 both use MS650 memory, but I'm not sure about the KA660. From dburrows at netpath.net Fri Dec 17 20:37:58 1999 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: H9278-A is this Q/CD or Q/Q Message-ID: <021101bf4900$fdca8980$a652e780@L166> See comments below. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck McManis To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 17, 1999 9:01 PM Subject: H9278-A is this Q/CD or Q/Q >I'm trying to bring a Vaxstation 3200 back to life. It had been depopulated >but I've got all the boards. It is in a BA23 chassis. Now my previous >experience with uVAXen in BA23's was that the first 3 slots were Q/CD and >the rest were Q/Q with a serpentine bus. However trying to set up the >boards this way yielded some very strange results. Not the least of which >was no response by the disk controller. Caused by the blank in slot 2 >The other oddity was the dual hard drive control switches on the panel. The >chassis is marked: > VS31V-B2 >Which the module database lists as: > 650QV-A2,CLR,MS650-AA,VCB02,DELQA-M,CK-DELQA-YP,2 M9047,BC18Z-25,120V > >If I read this correctly, then the stock configuration on this box was: >1 KA660 ---------------- >2 clear >3 MS650-AA -------------Move up to 2 and insert grant here (M9047) on left side >4 VCB02 >5 VCB02 (4 plane) >6 VCB02 (4 plane) >7 DELQA M09047 >8 M9047 ??? Insert disk controller here. > >The backplane is marked Micro-11 and H9278-A which is described as: > Q22 BUS BACKPLANE, 8 QUAD SLOTS > >Which sounds a whole lot like Q/CD all the way down to me. Anyone know for >sure? I'll be trying it out shortly so I may figure it out empirically. :-) > Slot 1,2 and 3 have the grant on the left. The right side is reserved for memory interconnect. >I guess the real question is "Quad slot" code for "Q/CD" slot? No - Quad wide connector. Q/CD has the right side "reserved" like on a ba213. Q/Q is the serpentine section Dan > > >--Chuck > From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Fri Dec 17 20:47:00 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: H9278-A is this Q/CD or Q/Q Message-ID: <991217214700.246003da@trailing-edge.com> >The backplane is marked Micro-11 and H9278-A which is described as: > Q22 BUS BACKPLANE, 8 QUAD SLOTS > >Which sounds a whole lot like Q/CD all the way down to me. Anyone know for >sure? I'll be trying it out shortly so I may figure it out empirically. :-) You want to look at Micronote #5, "Q22 Compatible Options", for the straight scoop. If you want to look at it over the web, start at the Micronote index at http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/micronotes/numerical/ In there you'll see the H9278 classified as Micro/PDP-11 H9278 4 X 3 Q22/CD and 4 X 5 Q22/Q22 Backplane In other words, this is your bog-standard BA23 backplane. The first three slots are CD, and the rest are serpentine. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From LFessen106 at aol.com Fri Dec 17 21:31:13 1999 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: GridCase 3 Message-ID: <0.27cc1a48.258c5a01@aol.com> I recently came across a GRiDCase 3 laptop complete with MSDos 3.2 and Grid's own dos as well. This also came complete with 2 10 meg hard drives. My question is does anyone know of a way to disable the Grid-dos so that the computer automatically starts from the hard drive? I already know about pressing the "H" key at startup to accomplish this, but would like to have it start from "C" unattended since I am considering running a BBS for classic computer enthusiasts on this machine. Thanks for any help you may have to offer. -Linc. From nerdware at laidbak.com Fri Dec 17 22:27:22 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: Control Data tape cleaner attn: Eric Smith Message-ID: <199912180526.XAA19091@garcon.laidbak.com> Thanks to everyone who responded. It would appear that my friend does in fact have a tape cleaner. Next question: Does anyone need it? If so, email me off-list and I'll find out what he wants for it. Thanks. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From a2k at one.net Fri Dec 17 23:00:35 1999 From: a2k at one.net (LordTyran) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: PDP-? Backplane Message-ID: I'm a bit perplexed by this ad, mostly because I'm not a PDP person.. though I would very much like to be. On http://www.cadigital.com/enclosur.htm it reads: Digital Equiptment Q-bus BackPlane for PDP-8 $9 PDP 11/23 four slot dual height backplace, DEC model H9281, designed for use in all kinds of DEV Q-Bus systems. got me. But whatever it is, $9 sounds like a low price.. Kevin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!" "In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..." -- BOFH #3 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Dec 17 23:40:15 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: Well it lives again, sorta. (YAV) Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991217213024.01d158a0@mcmanis.com> Yet-another-VAX has been restored to almost operating condition :-) Thanks everyone on the backplane, I didn't have the emply slot it just looked like it shipped that way given the description in the Module Database book. I put in the minimum system (CPU, Memory, DELQA) and that booted, then I swapped out the CPU for a KA655 I had handy and used it to probe around. So far so good, then installed the Dilog drive card, that was recognized after I correctly oriented the 34pin cable (it was one of those "rainbow" cables and neither polarized nor marked vis-a-vis pin 1. That got me the drive to be visible, which, when I tried booting it, started loading VMS 5.4, and I foolishly told it what the date was and it explained that my license for VMS was expired. Not a problem with my handy dandy License PAK from DECUS, but then I tried to bring up the TK50 that I added to the system I disassembled enough to route the cable. Installed the M7546 and the TK50 Powered on and did a SHOW DEV and it showed up. Then I put in a TK50 cartridge, and got nothing but blink. -- Can't get the tape out (without disasembly) -- Now the show dev doesn't show the tape! (the card shows up but it hangs trying to talk to MUA0. (sigh) The ethernet works however. Next step will be to netboot it into VMS or NetBSD. Note to Eric Smith: You can't get the serial console to work with the VCB02, period. Its got a couple of 16MB cards in it so it is a pretty sweet machine at the moment. If I can't resuscitate the TK50 I'll put a TQK70 and TK70 in there instead. Its a much more reliable drive anyway. I'm also trying to construct a sort of qbus extender with a couple of Qbus slots on the outside for doing board testing. --Chuck From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 17 23:50:27 1999 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 update Message-ID: <19991218055027.88837.qmail@hotmail.com> Hi, OK, so the MicroVAX is *still* not responding... I've at least ruled the power supply and the terminal and the terminal cables out however. I put the power supply from the functional VAXstation 3100 in the MicroVAX, hooked up the Wyse 50 I use with the VAXstation along with its DECConnect cable to the MicroVAX (BTW; I used the MicroVAX's manual to set up the VAXstation, therefore the cable must be plugged in properly), and turned the critter on... same results as before.. The console says "_~" and that is about it.. The manual talked about that possibly indicating a disk drive problem, but I tried it both with and without hard disk.. no dice. Any further ideas? Also, I'm going to be finally updating my website with *far* more Interdata/Perkin-Elmer/Concurrent info than anyone could possibly want, along with the same scope of Nova 1210 info, including the sheet on how to modify an ASR-33 with the DGC teletype interface board. Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From SeaMasterZ at aol.com Sat Dec 18 00:54:05 1999 From: SeaMasterZ at aol.com (SeaMasterZ@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: More eBay rambling, and the human factor Message-ID: <0.71ba651c.258c898d@aol.com> What I have heard is that the human brain can process between a dozen and two dozen "transactions" per second. But ... (sputter, sputter) ... so a 286 computer is BLAZINGLY fast by comparison ... wait, doesn't the human brain process vast amounts of info? The human body is an absolute marvel as a chemical plant; all those levels have to require tremendous amounts of monitoring and adjustment? I guess I am confused on the issue of scope versus speed ... so a brain could be considered to be parallel on a massive scale then, whereas is a computer is serial; brain: millions of things done slowly, computer one thing done with blinding speed ... am I way off base or onto something??? Ray Cook PS Sorry, its post finals excessive thought disorder; everything is fried but it wont shut down!!! From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Dec 18 01:12:46 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: pdp11.org now open Message-ID: <19991218011246.D9634@mrbill.net> (as soon as Internic adds it to the database; until then, you can reach the page at http://pdp11.workstations.org) I've registered (yay!) and created www.pdp11.org. I'm aiming to create an informational resource page for all makes and models of PDP-11s, similar to my (very popular) effort for Sun Microsystems computers at http://www.sunhelp.org. I've got a very small collection of links up currently, and will be adding more in the next few days as I work on the page. If anyone has contributions that they would like to see listed, please email me at mrbill@mrbill.net, and I'll see that they get there ASAP. On another note, I'm still looking for a PDP-11 system of my own; I'm not picky about model. If you've got one for sale, please let me know; I've got a VT102 in the garage that's just begging to be used as a console. 8-) Bill -- Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using Windows NT for mission-critical applications." -- What Yoda *meant* to say From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Dec 18 01:27:35 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: More eBay rambling, and the human factor In-Reply-To: <0.71ba651c.258c898d@aol.com> Message-ID: >What I have heard is that the human brain can process between a dozen and >two dozen "transactions" per second. But ... (sputter, sputter) ... so a 286 >computer is BLAZINGLY fast by comparison ... wait, doesn't the human brain >process vast amounts of info? The human body is an absolute marvel as a >chemical plant; all those levels have to require tremendous amounts of >monitoring and adjustment? I guess I am confused on the issue of scope >versus speed ... so a brain could be considered to be parallel on a massive >scale then, whereas is a computer is serial; brain: millions of things done >slowly, computer one thing done with blinding speed ... am I way off base or >onto something??? Generally speaking we don't consider the refresh of memory, regulation of voltages, etc. when ranking the "power" of the computer, just the stuff it can do that we want it to do. Breathing, heartbeat, etc. are all part of our autonoumous nerveous system and we don't have to "think" to do those things. It isn't so much that our brains are massively parallel, as that some part of our brain does pattern matching very effectively and in ways we haven't quite been able to duplicate electronically. Pinball is a good test of the brains throughput, especially when about 4 extra balls pop out. OVERLOAD and they start getting past the flippers because we can't track that many reliably. Anyway I am pretty sure that is a good number, one or two dozen "decisions" per second. From mrbill at mrbill.net Sat Dec 18 04:07:11 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: Boot UNIX V7 disk images on Supnik's PDP-11 emulator? Message-ID: <19991218040711.F9634@mrbill.net> I have hardly ANY docs, so if someone could point me in an appropriate direction I'd be grateful. I'm trying to boot UNIX V7 off the disk images provided with Bob Supnik's excellent PDP-11 emulator, running on my Ultra 5 under Solaris (compiled with egcs/gcc): -rwxr-xr-x 1 mrbill other 222192 Dec 18 03:45 pdp11 -rw-r--r-- 1 mrbill other 2048512 May 15 1998 unix_v7_rk.dsk -rw-r--r-- 1 mrbill other 10485760 May 27 1998 unix_v7_rl.dsk bash-2.03$ ./pdp11 PDP-11 simulator V2.3d sim> attach rl0 unix_v7_rl.dsk sim> b rl0 @ And thats as far as I get... anything just gives me back the @ prompt (ODT?). Thanks for any help. Bill -- Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using Windows NT for mission-critical applications." -- What Yoda *meant* to say From classiccmp at mrynet.com Fri Dec 17 21:47:45 1999 From: classiccmp at mrynet.com (Classic Computer Mailing List) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: Boot UNIX V7 disk images on Supnik's PDP-11 emulator? Message-ID: <199912181147.DAA42245@mrynet.com> > I have hardly ANY docs, so if someone could point me in an appropriate > direction I'd be grateful. > > I'm trying to boot UNIX V7 off the disk images provided with Bob Supnik's > excellent PDP-11 emulator, running on my Ultra 5 under Solaris (compiled > with egcs/gcc): > > -rwxr-xr-x 1 mrbill other 222192 Dec 18 03:45 pdp11 > -rw-r--r-- 1 mrbill other 2048512 May 15 1998 unix_v7_rk.dsk > -rw-r--r-- 1 mrbill other 10485760 May 27 1998 unix_v7_rl.dsk > > bash-2.03$ ./pdp11 > > PDP-11 simulator V2.3d > sim> attach rl0 unix_v7_rl.dsk > sim> b rl0 > @ > > And thats as far as I get... anything just gives me back the @ > prompt (ODT?). > > Thanks for any help. > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net > mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org Following is a log of what to type at the "@" prompt: sim> b rl0 @r <---- Note: Once you make a typing mistake, you must restart. @boot e.g. It will ONLY return another @ for anything you type. @ <---- ^E typed to break to the simulator monitor Simulation stopped, PC: 157530 (BGE 157526) sim> b rl0 @boot <---- Start the boot program from the disk Boot : rl(0,0)unixnix <--- You may make corrections, etc, in this program unix not found : rl(0,0)unix mem = 205376 ... Hope that helps :) Regards, -Skots -- Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor@mrynet.com MRY Systems staylor@mrynet.lv (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") ----- Labak miris neka sarkans ----- From robwill2 at wxs.nl Sat Dec 18 07:23:44 1999 From: robwill2 at wxs.nl (robwill2@wxs.nl) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: about olivetti's m290 Message-ID: <77282D95908.AAA5441@smtp01.wxs.nl> Hi group, As an 'old computer owner' (besides more modern ones), who has an original (?) OLIVETTI M290 desktop computer, i am searching for the 2 floppy disks that belong to this type of machine: 1. the disk 'keyboard drivers & utilities' 2. the disk 'customer test' (which has the 'system setup' utility on it... Does any of you have a copy of these disks available?? Or, does anyone know where to get them from the net?? Thanks for solutions! See you, Robert robwill2@wxs.nl From wrking at tsoft.com Sat Dec 18 10:23:25 1999 From: wrking at tsoft.com (William King) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: WTD: RK05 rails Message-ID: <003801bf4974$357d95c0$1501a8c0@trantor.frop.org> Anyone know of a source for RK05 mounting rails? I'm in need of four sets (cabinet side only). I've got to get the drives off my garage floor before I'm allowed to get any more stuff. Thanks, Bill From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 18 10:49:11 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:20 2005 Subject: Boot UNIX V7 disk images on Supnik's PDP-11 emulator? In-Reply-To: <19991218040711.F9634@mrbill.net> Message-ID: >I have hardly ANY docs, so if someone could point me in an appropriate >direction I'd be grateful. > >I'm trying to boot UNIX V7 off the disk images provided with Bob Supnik's >excellent PDP-11 emulator, running on my Ultra 5 under Solaris (compiled >with egcs/gcc): Been a couple years since I tried booting that, if the info needed to boot it isn't with the disk images, it's in the doc's that come with the emulator. You need to make some changes to the way the emulator is set up once you start it, then follow the boot proceedure. I'm pretty sure the info is in the one big text file that comes with the emulator source. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jpl15 at netcom.com Sat Dec 18 10:52:35 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: WTD: RK05 rails In-Reply-To: <003801bf4974$357d95c0$1501a8c0@trantor.frop.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 18 Dec 1999, William King wrote: > Anyone know of a source for RK05 mounting rails? I'm in need of four sets > (cabinet side only). I've got to get the drives off my garage floor before > I'm allowed to get any more stuff. :) Actually... unless someone has a ton of rack rails lying around, I don't think most folks would be willing to break up working sets... its kinda like asking for 4 left shoes.. That being said... my RKs are in pretty much standard non ballbearing slides, no tilt or anything fancy. Since you didn't tell us where you are... I could only suggest that you check out some of the larger surplus yards in your area... most places that dismantle electronic equipment are likely to have stacks of slide units on hand. The ones on my drives are not DEC-specific in any way. As an interim measure, I have successfully used plain aluminium angle stock, bolted to the inside-facing flanges of the rack so that the angle forms two rails from front to back, and the drives can sit on top of them. Use 1" or 1 1/2" angle stock. I put the angle facing down, so the bolt heads are underneath the small 'shelf' formed by the other angle of the stock, thus no interference from bolt heads. The units can then be easily moved if you need to. This gets the drives off the floor, the S.O. off your back, and ensures the return of domestic bliss *and* a happy collection. Cheers and Best of The Season... John > > Thanks, > > Bill > > From aek at spies.com Sat Dec 18 12:15:49 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: Boot UNIX V7 disk images on Supnik's PDP-11 emulator? Message-ID: <199912181815.KAA12899@spies.com> "PDP-11 simulator V2.3d sim> attach rl0 unix_v7_rl.dsk sim> b rl0 @ And thats as far as I get... anything just gives me back the @ prompt (ODT?). " first stage bootstrap. it's waiting for you to type a file to boot from someone REALLY needs to write up a FAQ for the simulator. From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Dec 18 13:21:29 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: PDP-? Backplane Message-ID: <199912181921.OAA12068@world.std.com> Message-ID: Sunhelp is a fantastic sight, I hope this one is just as successful! On Sat, 18 Dec 1999, Bill Bradford wrote: > (as soon as Internic adds it to the database; until then, you can > reach the page at http://pdp11.workstations.org) > > I've registered (yay!) and created www.pdp11.org. I'm aiming to > create an informational resource page for all makes and models of > PDP-11s, similar to my (very popular) effort for Sun Microsystems > computers at http://www.sunhelp.org. > > I've got a very small collection of links up currently, and will be > adding more in the next few days as I work on the page. If anyone > has contributions that they would like to see listed, please email > me at mrbill@mrbill.net, and I'll see that they get there ASAP. > > On another note, I'm still looking for a PDP-11 system of my own; > I'm not picky about model. If you've got one for sale, please let > me know; I've got a VT102 in the garage that's just begging to > be used as a console. 8-) > > Bill > > -- > Bill Bradford * mrbill@mrbill.net / http://www.mrbill.net > mrbill@sunhelp.org / http://www.sunhelp.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to using > Windows NT for mission-critical applications." > -- What Yoda *meant* to say > From sipke at wxs.nl Sat Dec 18 16:24:57 1999 From: sipke at wxs.nl (Sipke de Wal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: The joke is on (Apple1) References: <199912172047.MAA02595@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: <385C09B9.25944E28@wxs.nl> Dwight Elvey wrote: > > Why do I feel like I was just spammed? > Dwight Follow the thread back and you'll know it's not me who was trying to sell you this 'Picasso' Sipke From cfandt at netsync.net Sat Dec 18 18:36:01 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: More eBay rambling, and the human factor In-Reply-To: <0.71ba651c.258c898d@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19991218133234.00b0f100@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 01:54 AM 12/18/99 -0500, SeaMasterZ@aol.com said something like: >What I have heard is that the human brain can process between a dozen and >two dozen "transactions" per second. But ... (sputter, sputter) ... so a 286 >computer is BLAZINGLY fast by comparison ... wait, doesn't the human brain >process vast amounts of info? The human body is an absolute marvel as a >chemical plant; all those levels have to require tremendous amounts of >monitoring and adjustment? I guess I am confused on the issue of scope >versus speed ... so a brain could be considered to be parallel on a massive >scale then, whereas is a computer is serial; brain: millions of things done >slowly, computer one thing done with blinding speed ... am I way off base or >onto something??? No Ray, you aren't. However, perhaps re-phrasing your last sentence may make it a little clearer: ". . . .brain: millions of things done slowly and in parallel, computer one thing done with blinding speed. Most of the parallel processing is done by the unconscious brain (the "co-processor-like" medula handles involuntary muscles: diaphragm, veinous muscles, heart, etc. while subconscious thoughts, reflexes, sensory inputs, etc. are handled by the "mainframe" cerebral cortex) while up to several processes may be done consciously." That's an interesting study of neuro-cybernetics which I hadn't gotten into yet. Maybe one of the other folks here has. >Ray Cook >PS Sorry, its post finals excessive thought disorder; >everything is fried but it wont shut down!!! I hear you! Although I'm not near what would be considered finals in my college, I've got a heap of work to do towards my 4-year degree to be finished by next summer. Last I had to study this hard was many years ago (I'm 46 now and those danged braincells got rusty in a few spots!) But the mental exercise does me *very* good :-) Good luck with the finals Ray. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From nerdware at laidbak.com Sat Dec 18 19:29:55 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: Need info on a Toshiba 3100e/40 Message-ID: <199912190228.UAA28432@garcon.laidbak.com> I was just given a 3100e/40 "laptop". It powers up, screen works, goes through bios and then asks for a boot disk. The expansion bay is empty, which is where I assume the hd goes. I tried booting from a DOS 6.22 disk, but it couldn't recognize it. I'm guessing that it's not a 1.44mb drive.....800k perhaps? (It's 3.5") What version of DOS is the latest supported? I would also like any info on the processor, etc. The little beast has one whole meg of ram, so this is truly a power machine......remember when you could fit a word processor into 64k of ram along with Basic? Also, what kind of hd does it support? I'm guessing I'll have to track down a proprietary drive carrier, but does it use ide or is it mfm/rll? Thanks. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sat Dec 18 19:38:20 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: NRI computer Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991218173820.01162d5c@agora.rdrop.com> Can anyone help this lady with some information on this device? She is not on the list, so please at least copy her directly on any replies. -jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Rosiecat" >To: >Subject: NRI computer >Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 14:25:51 -0800 >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 > >Hello, >I found this old computer in a thrift store and was wondering if >you have any info re: "National Radio Institute Model 832 Digital >Computer". It measures 22 1/4" wide and 15"deep and appears to >look about circa 1970s. It has no ports at all any an electrical >plug. There are 128 switches under a broad category marked >"Computer Memory", all numbered switches 1-9, and A-F.. The >switches work and the lights work. There is even an Accumulator >category, a 7 switch "Register" set, Display/Speed/Clock switches >and more. Can you give any information as to what this is. > >Regards, > >Donna Fuller ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu Sat Dec 18 19:41:53 1999 From: brian at sigh.mse.jhu.edu (Brian Harrington) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: WQESD Switch Settings Message-ID: Hi -- Could somebody supply me with the switch settings for a Webster WQESD/04? Many thanks. -- Brian -- Brian Harrington Digital Knowledge Center Johns Hopkins University brian@sigh.mse.jhu.edu From mew_jac at swbell.net Sat Dec 18 20:12:59 1999 From: mew_jac at swbell.net (Mitch Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: Email address for William Donzelli ? References: <3.0.3.32.19991218173820.01162d5c@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <385C3F2B.107E@swbell.net> Does anyone know the current Email address for William Donzelli? Thanks, Mitch Wright From mcguire at neurotica.com Sat Dec 18 20:13:07 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: Email address for William Donzelli ? References: <385C3F2B.107E@swbell.net> Message-ID: <99121821225307.05829@vault.neurotica.com> On Sat, 18 Dec 1999, Mitch Wright wrote: >Does anyone know the current Email address for William Donzelli? He changed ISPs not too long ago. He can now be reached at wdezell@snowhill.com. -Dave McGuire From a2k at one.net Sat Dec 18 20:56:00 1999 From: a2k at one.net (LordTyran) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: HW address of Sun 3/60 Message-ID: I have a Sun 3/60 I'm trying to netboot. For rarp I need to know the ethernet address of the 3/60. I don't have a console but I have a terminal on the serial port so I can get to the boot monitor. Thanks, Kevin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!" "In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..." -- BOFH #3 From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 18 21:24:31 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: WQESD Switch Settings In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Could somebody supply me with the switch settings for a Webster WQESD/04? >Many thanks. The following info can be found at the Metalab PDP-11 archive, but I've included it here. Zane http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/hardware/WQE SD.txt W1 is the 4-switch pack near the fingers SW2 is the ten-switch pack SW3 is the remaining 4-switch-pack near the handles Setting the CSR: (only one on at a time) LSI-11 Microvax II SW2-10 on 17772150 20001468 SW2-9 on 17760334 200000DC SW2-8 on 17760354 200000EC SW2-7 on 17760374 200000FC SW2-6 on 17760414 2000010C SW2-5 on 17760434 2000011C Bootstrap select (only one on at a time): SW2-3 on On board bootstrap disabled SW2-2 on On board bootstrap enabled at 17773000 SW2-1 on On board bootstrap enabled at 17771000 Drive configuration: SW3-2 SW3-3 SW3-4 Function On On On All drives fixed media On Off On Drive 0 removable On On Off Drives 0 and 1 removable On Off Off Drives 0, 1, and 2 removable Off On On Drives 0,1,2, and 3 removable Off Off Off Enable WOMBAT via on-board port SW3-1 is unused and should be left on Interrupt Priority: SW1-2 SW1-3 SW1-4 Priority On On On 4 On On Off 5 On Off On 6 Off Off On 7 SW1-1 is unused Maintenenace Terminal Adapter, 10-pin port: 9600 baud, 8 data bits, 1 stop bit J6 DB25S Function 7 7 RS232 Enable 8 2 RS232 Input 3 3 RS232 Output 4 7 Ground Starting WOMBAT over the console on a LSI-11: Halt the processor. 0/0 0g 'CSR'/250 R7/2000 RS/340 P Microvax II: Halt the processor U I D/P/W 20001F40 20 D/L 20088008 80000002 D/W 2000xxxx AC ("xxxx" is the last 4 digits from Microvax CSR table) S 400 | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ndiablo at diablonet.net Sat Dec 18 22:44:31 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: Need info on a Toshiba 3100e/40 Message-ID: <19991219044431.6196.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> I dont know if you're talking about the T3100 (gas plasma screen, etc) but the model number you mentioned sounds kind of similar so I'll spout off the information just in case :) The T3100 is a 80286 (at 8mhz, software switchable to 4) with a gas plasma screen, so no batteries here :) Mine had 640k of RAM and i'm not sure if it was expandable, so perhaps we're talking about different machines. It did indeed have a 720k floppy drive, so you'll have to either transfer any software you want to run to 720k disks or ruin some 1.44 disks :) It will run pretty much any version of DOS out there up to 6.22. Mine had a 20 megabyte hard disk that I suspect was MFM, but the connector is a proprietary compressed connector with 20 pins or so (can't quite remember exactly). Hope this helps (if you've actually got a T3100) :) -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From edick at idcomm.com Sat Dec 18 22:39:12 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: What's this??? Message-ID: <000401bf49da$ffd1c920$0400c0a8@winbook> I've got a mystery before me . . . there's a component, probably a 64Kx8 SRAM but, who knows? I can't find a lead on the manufacturer or whatever. The part's numbered GLT751208-15 and four of them comprised the data cache on an old '486 motherboard climing to have 256KB of cache. That, combined with the number of the part, 512 for the number of k-bits and 08 for the data width . . . looks right, but I haven't seen a data sheet for a 64kByte Sram in a 32-pin package. All the ones I've seen are 128kByte parts. As it stands, I'm inclined to wire one of these as the memory on an 8-bitter. Any inputs? thanx Dick From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Dec 18 22:59:15 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: NRI computer In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991218173820.01162d5c@agora.rdrop.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19991218225915.225f8964@earthlink.net> Hi Jim, Donna and all, At 05:38 PM 12/18/99 -0800, you wrote: >Can anyone help this lady with some information on this device? >>I found this old computer in a thrift store and was wondering if >>you have any info re: "National Radio Institute Model 832 Digital >>Computer". It measures 22 1/4" wide and 15"deep and appears to >>look about circa 1970s. It has no ports at all any an electrical >>plug. There are 128 switches under a broad category marked >>"Computer Memory", all numbered switches 1-9, and A-F.. The >>switches work and the lights work. There is even an Accumulator >>category, a 7 switch "Register" set, Display/Speed/Clock switches >>and more. Can you give any information as to what this is. >> >>Regards, >> >>Donna Fuller > It was a Transistor transistor logic (about 52 ic's) training computer, designed about 1971 and used in their course in computer electronics. The switches were used as the "read only/program" memory, 16 bytes. -Dave From mcguire at neurotica.com Sun Dec 19 00:54:03 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: HW address of Sun 3/60 References: Message-ID: <99121901544008.05829@vault.neurotica.com> On Sat, 18 Dec 1999, LordTyran wrote: >I have a Sun 3/60 I'm trying to netboot. For rarp I need to know the >ethernet address of the 3/60. I don't have a console but I have a terminal >on the serial port so I can get to the boot monitor. Type "kb" at the ">" prompt. That'll show you the ROM banner. The ethernet MAC address is in that banner. -Dave McGuire From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 19 01:05:51 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: DECNA / Transciever question Message-ID: Not a good day, was working on my PDP-11/73 this morning, FTPing some files to it, and then I shut it down for a few hours while I worked on other stuff. Came back finally, turned it on and the EQ.SYS wouldn't load. More investigation shows I'd apparently smoked a Transceiver, and blown the fuse on DECNA Cab Kit. So did the Transceiver take out the fuse? I assume so, the three LED's are lit on the DECNA, but what little doc's I've found on the card doesn't tell me if that is good or bad. The transceiver definitly has a smokey smell to it. Now why on earth would a transciever blow? Also does anyone know what the LED's on the DECNA mean? BTW, it was a 10Base2 Transciever, the last 10Base2 system on my home network. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ddameron at earthlink.net Sat Dec 18 23:53:09 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: NRI computer In-Reply-To: <015901bf49f0$ac85ece0$aa231f18@we.mediaone.net> References: <3.0.6.16.19991218225915.225f8964@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19991218235309.2c0fc408@earthlink.net> At 11:14 PM 12/18/99 -0800, Rosiecat wrote: >Hi Dave, Jim and all, > >Thanks for the reply and the information. Is this item worth >anything(monetarily)? Or would it just look cool on display. >Gotta love the internet I would of had to do mega research to >find any info. > >Thanks again, >Donna It sold then for about $500. Now I'd say it would be great on display! -Dave From swolfe1 at mail.gcnet.net Sun Dec 19 02:25:48 1999 From: swolfe1 at mail.gcnet.net (swolfe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: PCjr Problem SOLVED! References: <3.0.6.16.19991218225915.225f8964@earthlink.net> <3.0.6.16.19991218235309.2c0fc408@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <000b01bf49fa$a7ede2a0$2b6cc9d1@lothar> I finally fixed the PCjr. After taking apart the sidecar, I found that the board had some exess copper left over from when it was etched. I trimmed the paths where the short was occuring (which was right near a memory IC ) and everything is working great now, includingthe second floppy drive which was also defunct while the problem was being solved. Thanks everyone! Shane Wolfe CS Student Frostburg State University From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 19 02:13:03 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: uVAX 3+ (KA655) problem? Message-ID: <19991219081303.20332.qmail@brouhaha.com> I upgraded my uVAX II to a III+ (by installing a KA655 CPU and three MS650 16M RAM boards. It passes the self test and gives me a command prompt: KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7 Performing normal system tests. 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25.. 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed. >>> I can issue simple commands, although at the moment I don't have a bootable disk. I'm trying to get set up to boot over Ethernet from a MOP software on a Linux box. What worries me is that if I just leave it sitting at that prompt, after a few minutes it seems to reboot, printing the banner and running the tests again. Have I got a bad KA655, or is it supposed to do that? More details are below, in case it helps. What the heck does UQSSP stand for, anyhow? Anyone have a spare copy of EK-KA655-TM? Thanks! Eric >>>show memory /full Memory 0: 00000000 to 00FFFFFF, 16MB, 0 bad pages Memory 1: 01000000 to 01FFFFFF, 16MB, 0 bad pages Memory 2: 02000000 to 02FFFFFF, 16MB, 0 bad pages Total of 48MB, 0 bad pages, 120 reserved pages Memory Bitmap -02FF1000 to 02FF3FFF, 24 pages Console Scratch Area -02FF4000 to 02FF7FFF, 32 pages Qbus Map -02FF8000 to 02FFFFFF, 64 pages >>>show qbus Scan of Qbus I/O Space -20001468 (772150) = 4000 (154) RQDX3/KDA50/RRD50/RQC25/KFQSA-DISK -2000146A (772152) = 0B40 -20001930 (774460) = FF08 (300) DELQA/DEQNA/DESQA -20001932 (774462) = FF00 -20001934 (774464) = FF2B -20001936 (774466) = FF0A -20001938 (774470) = FF10 -2000193A (774472) = FF95 -2000193C (774474) = 0000 -2000193E (774476) = 0030 -20001940 (774500) = 0000 (260) TQK50/TQK70/TU81E/RV20/KFQSA-TAPE -20001942 (774502) = 0BC0 -20001F40 (777500) = 0020 (004) IPCR >>>show devices UQSSP Disk Controller 0 (772150) -DUA0 (RD54) UQSSP Tape Controller 0 (774500) Ethernet Adapter 1 (774460) -XQB0 (08-00-2B-0A-10-95) >>>show uqssp UQSSP Disk Controller 0 (772150) -DUA0 (RD54) UQSSP Tape Controller 0 (774500) From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 19 02:43:06 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: uVAX 3+ (KA655) problem? In-Reply-To: <19991219081303.20332.qmail@brouhaha.com> (message from Eric Smith on 19 Dec 1999 08:13:03 -0000) References: <19991219081303.20332.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <19991219084306.20448.qmail@brouhaha.com> I wrote: > What worries me is that if I just leave it sitting at that prompt, > after a few minutes it seems to reboot, printing the banner and running > the tests again. It seems to do this very consistently after 220 seconds, which leads me to believe that is isn't a random crash, but rather some sort of deliberate feature. A test or burnin mode perhaps? From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Dec 19 06:01:35 1999 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: Need info on a Toshiba 3100e/40 In-Reply-To: <199912190228.UAA28432@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991219070135.007a9e40@mail.wincom.net> At 07:29 PM 12/18/1999 -0600, you wrote: >I was just given a 3100e/40 "laptop". It powers up, screen works, >goes through bios and then asks for a boot disk. The expansion >bay is empty, which is where I assume the hd goes. > >I tried booting from a DOS 6.22 disk, but it couldn't recognize it. I'm >guessing that it's not a 1.44mb drive.....800k perhaps? (It's 3.5") > >What version of DOS is the latest supported? I would also like any >info on the processor, etc. The little beast has one whole meg of >ram, so this is truly a power machine......remember when you >could fit a word processor into 64k of ram along with Basic? > >Also, what kind of hd does it support? I'm guessing I'll have to track >down a proprietary drive carrier, but does it use ide or is it mfm/rll? > >Thanks. > > > >Paul Braun >NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. >nerdware@laidbak.com >www.laidbak.com/nerdware > I have three Toshiba 3100's, all have HD floppy drives, and all will run Dos 6.22. The one I got new, a 20 meg version, came with two disks, Toshiba MS-Dos ver. 3.3, Pt # PA8804, and a "Diagnostics and Supplimental" disk Pt# 8810U, that will not work with later versions of Dos. The hard drive in the 20 meg version is a Conner CP 3022. I hope this helps. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 19 05:47:34 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: DECNA / Transciever question In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "DECNA / Transciever question" (Dec 18, 23:05) References: Message-ID: <9912191147.ZM8405@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 18, 23:05, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Not a good day, was working on my PDP-11/73 this morning, > investigation shows I'd apparently smoked a Transceiver, and blown the > fuse on DECNA Cab Kit. I have days like that... I seem to have an unfair share recently :-( > So did the Transceiver take out the fuse? I assume so, the three LED's are > lit on the DECNA, but what little doc's I've found on the card doesn't tell > me if that is good or bad. The transceiver definitly has a smokey smell to > it. I don't know what the lights mean, but I've seen transceivers on Suns take out the corresponding fuse. I'd remove the transceiver, replace the fuse, and see if the voltage on the AUI connector is OK. Pins 1,4,6,8,11 should be ground, and pin 13 should be +12V. > Now why on earth would a transciever blow? Possibly a short on the cable, but usually it's caused by surges (eg due to induced current from a nearby lightning strike). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 19 05:32:07 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: What's this??? In-Reply-To: "Richard Erlacher" "What's this???" (Dec 18, 21:39) References: <000401bf49da$ffd1c920$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <9912191132.ZM8392@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 18, 21:39, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I've got a mystery before me . . . there's a component, probably a 64Kx8 > SRAM but, who knows? I can't find a lead on the manufacturer or whatever. > The part's numbered GLT751208-15 and four of them comprised the data cache > on an old '486 motherboard climing to have 256KB of cache. That, combined > with the number of the part, 512 for the number of k-bits and 08 for the > data width . . . looks right, but I haven't seen a data sheet for a 64kByte > Sram in a 32-pin package. All the ones I've seen are 128kByte parts. That's my experience, too. Looking through my pile of early-90's memory data books, I couldn't find that number listed. However, I found a couple of 32-pin SOP devices made by Samsung that are 64K x 8: the KM68512 is 32-pin 64K x 8. It has the same pinout as the more common 32K x 8 28-pin cache SRAM devices, except that pin 30 is an active-high CS (that would be pin 28, Vcc, on most 28-pin 32K x 8 devices), pin 31 is A15 (the extra address line), pin 32 is Vcc, and pins 1, 2 are N.C. (pin would be A16 on a 128k x 8 device). Apart from the NC on pin 2, that would make it the same pinout as the common 128k x 8 devices. Incidentally, although the Samsung book lists lots of other manufaturer's equivalents for nearly all their devices, there are none listed for the KM68512. It's obviously not a common configuration! FWIW, several motherboards did use 4 chips rather than 8 for certain cache sizes (mine uses 4 off KM681001 for 512K x 8 cache). There are a few other devices that might fit the description, except that they are BiCMOS centre-power devices (Vss and Vcc are in the middle of the sides, not at the corners). It's very unlikely that any motherboard used such chips for cache, I think. Check where the 5V connection goes, and if it's on pin 32 (and possibly pin 28), I'd assume it's the "normal" pinout, and similar to the KM68512 I found. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From mbg at world.std.com Sun Dec 19 09:19:22 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: uVAX 3+ (KA655) problem? References: <19991219081303.20332.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <199912191519.KAA04808@world.std.com> >> What worries me is that if I just leave it sitting at that prompt, >> after a few minutes it seems to reboot, printing the banner and running >> the tests again. > >It seems to do this very consistently after 220 seconds, which leads >me to believe that is isn't a random crash, but rather some sort of >deliberate feature. A test or burnin mode perhaps? Check the settings of the DEQNA... it has a setting which allows it to reboot the machine if it doesn't receive traffic within a certain amount of time. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From nerdware at laidbak.com Sun Dec 19 11:00:40 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: Toshiba 3100e -- Thanks Message-ID: <199912191759.LAA04629@garcon.laidbak.com> Thanks for the answers--- yep, that's what I've got. I love those old orange plasma screens. Nice and crisp, even when older. I'll try to set up some 720k Dos disks and see what's up. Mine are hard- drive-less, either because they came that way or they drives were just yanked and thrown out when they were retired. My first exposure to a plasma screen was back in '79 when I was visiting the University of Illinois to see if I wanted to go there, and they had the Plato terminals all over campus. IIRC, the displays on the Plato's also doubled as a rear-projection screen for slides and were touch-sensitive. Pretty cool for '78-79...... I'm also getting an old Zenith portable from the same era. Don't know if it works yet -- needs 12vdc but the polarity isn't listed, so I'm a little hesitant to just shoot it some juice. I don't know if they were smart enough to put diodes on the input to block reverse dc or not.... The Zenith has two 3.5" floppies that pop up from the area just above the keyboard, kinda like an IBM. When I get the case open and determine polarity, I'll see if it works. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Sun Dec 19 11:42:33 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: uVAX 3+ (KA655) problem? In-Reply-To: <199912191519.KAA04808@world.std.com> References: <19991219081303.20332.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991219094130.01bd98c0@mcmanis.com> At 10:19 AM 12/19/99 -0500, Megan wrote: >Check the settings of the DEQNA... it has a setting which allows it >to reboot the machine if it doesn't receive traffic within a certain >amount of time. No way! Really? Is this true of the DELQA as well? How would one go about figuring that out? --Chuck From peter at joules0.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 19 11:41:35 1999 From: peter at joules0.demon.co.uk (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: Toshiba 3100e In-Reply-To: <199912191759.LAA04629@garcon.laidbak.com> References: <199912191759.LAA04629@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: In article <199912191759.LAA04629@garcon.laidbak.com>, Paul Braun writes >Thanks for the answers--- yep, that's what I've got. I love those old >orange plasma screens. Nice and crisp, even when older. I have a Toshiba T3100-SX whose screen is completely dead. It works with an external monitor. Has anyone got any idea whether it might be anything simple wrong with the display? -- Regards Pete From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 19 11:55:09 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: uVAX 3+ (KA655) problem? Message-ID: <991219125509.246004d6@trailing-edge.com> >At 10:19 AM 12/19/99 -0500, Megan wrote: >>Check the settings of the DEQNA... it has a setting which allows it >>to reboot the machine if it doesn't receive traffic within a certain >>amount of time. > >No way! Really? Is this true of the DELQA as well? How would one go about >figuring that out? > >--Chuck On the DEQNA, the sanity timer jumper is W3, located below the Boot/Diag ROM near the board handles. From aw288 at osfn.org Sun Dec 19 12:12:40 1999 From: aw288 at osfn.org (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: Email address for William Donzelli ? In-Reply-To: <99121821225307.05829@vault.neurotica.com> Message-ID: > >Does anyone know the current Email address for William Donzelli? > > He changed ISPs not too long ago. He can now be reached at > wdezell@snowhill.com. Specifically, quit my ISP not too long ago. William Donzelli aw288@osfn.org From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Dec 19 13:07:14 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: 11/44 Expansion chassis Message-ID: I'm thinking that it would be Fun to have another Unibus chassis on my 11/44 system, the better to hang some more peripherals from. The current machine is stuffed like an Xmas turkey, and I would rather not run the old power supplies our near their design limits all the time. I have several old 11/34a boxen lying under my (inacessable) workbench. I got to wondering what would be involved in using one of them for the Purpose. I somewhere dimly recall that the interface cable for RK05 devices is in fact a Unibus jumper cable, but that could be an optimistic imagination. I've got a couple of those idle. Does anyone have any experience or thoughts about adding another chassis to an 11/44 system? [ Easy? Can o' Worms? Don't even *think* about it? ] FWIW, I *do* have several (4) 11/44 boxes, but I'd like to save them for spares in case the main box woofs it's cookies. The 11/34a stuff is much better, if its feasible. Cheers John From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 19 12:05:54 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: DECNA / Transciever question In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 18, 99 11:05:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2060 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991219/15b398df/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 19 14:04:44 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: 11/44 Expansion chassis In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Does anyone have any experience or thoughts about adding another >chassis to an 11/44 system? > > [ Easy? Can o' Worms? Don't even *think* about it? ] Well, I don't know anything about doing it, and I don't currently have one on my /44, BUT I do know that my /44 had one on it prior to my getting the system. There was at least one other rack to the system, and it was obvious that there was an expansion chassis since the necessary cable was there. BTW, you need a BC11-A cable, pages 3-1 and 3-2 of the tech manual talk about a little at least. It looks straight forward, as long as the 11/34a chassis are straight Unibus, and you have a BC11 cable I'd say go for it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mbg at world.std.com Sun Dec 19 14:06:09 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: DECNA / Transciever question Message-ID: <199912192006.PAA15643@world.std.com> >Do you mean DECNA? Or DEQNA? The latter is a Q-bus serial card, and I >forget what the former is? DECNA is for the PRO3xx series... Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 19 14:19:43 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: DECNA / Transciever question In-Reply-To: <199912192006.PAA15643@world.std.com> Message-ID: >>Do you mean DECNA? Or DEQNA? The latter is a Q-bus serial card, and I >>forget what the former is? > >DECNA is for the PRO3xx series... > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer Argh! Yes, I meant DEQNA :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 19 14:41:05 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: uVAX 3+ (KA655) problem? In-Reply-To: <199912191519.KAA04808@world.std.com> (message from Megan on Sun, 19 Dec 1999 10:19:22 -0500 (EST)) References: <19991219081303.20332.qmail@brouhaha.com> <199912191519.KAA04808@world.std.com> Message-ID: <19991219204105.22982.qmail@brouhaha.com> Megan wrote: > Check the settings of the DEQNA... it has a setting which allows it > to reboot the machine if it doesn't receive traffic within a certain > amount of time. It's a DELQA, and I don't have docs. In the archives of the port-vax list, I found a message by Tom Ivar Helbekkmo describing the DIP switches. It sounds like I need to close switch 4. http://mail-index.netbsd.org/port-vax/1998/06/01/0002.html From eric at brouhaha.com Sun Dec 19 14:48:15 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: DECNA / Transciever question In-Reply-To: (ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk) References: Message-ID: <19991219204815.23019.qmail@brouhaha.com> Tony writes about the innards of 10-base-2 Ethernet transceivers: > The power supply comes from an isolated DC-DC > converter in the transceiver case which takes in 12V from the computer > and gives out -9V for the transceiver chip. I'm not sure about separate transceivers, but the ones integrated on NIC cards for PCs often used a little non-potted four-pin DC-DC converter module made by TDK. At a guess, it's about 20 mm by 10 mm. I've successfully kludged them onto boards that were designed for the potted module style. Anyhow, I have a lifetime supply of NOS of these TDK converters, so I could sell some cheap or trade them for other small stuff. Eric From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 19 13:35:16 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: 11/44 Expansion chassis In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Dec 19, 99 11:07:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1590 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991219/a49d05fa/attachment.ksh From ernestls at home.com Sun Dec 19 16:28:10 1999 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. Message-ID: <000201bf4a70$551cb300$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> I have an Olympia Olytext 20 computer but I don't have the OS for it. It's a single board, Z-80 system, with a 3.5 inch FD. The manual said it used CP/M-80 but I haven't been able to find any other information on the system, or the OS. No one that I've talked to knows anything about this PC, so I won't even hope that anyone here would have the OS but... I'm wondering if there is a way to make a new copy of the OS for this system? If I can find out the hardware addressing, etc., can CP/M 80 be made to run on it, and without a horrific amount of work? (I know, depends on what I consider a lot of work.)I don't mind tedious, if it's do-able. I've never done it before, and some of you may be chuckling about it but I'm just curious? Otherwise, this computer will just continue to sit, unused, on my bookshelf. Ernest From healyzh at aracnet.com Sun Dec 19 17:04:16 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: DEQNA / Transciever update Message-ID: Well, I didn't feel like fighting Christmas traffic so I stole a fuse from the /73 I'm not using at the moment, plugged in a 10BaseT transciever and everything worked just fine. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 19 15:47:26 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: DECNA / Transciever question In-Reply-To: <19991219204815.23019.qmail@brouhaha.com> from "Eric Smith" at Dec 19, 99 08:48:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1395 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991219/36993d9b/attachment.ksh From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Dec 19 18:19:42 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: Please help me clean out! Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991219161942.009552e0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Fellow CLASSICCMP'ers, I need help cleaning out, and I DON'T want to ship anything this time, so this will be LOCAL PICKUP ONLY from Kent, WA (southeast of Seattle). I'm not going to set fixed prices on anything because I would far rather see it get put to use than sit on it until someone offers me something. What I will say is that if you find something you like, and you feel like making some sort of contribution, that's fine. If not, that's still OK. Translation: Freebies with a donation can set up nearby. ;-) With that in mind, here's a (mostly complete) list of what I want to get rid of. FAIR WARNING: If this stuff fails to move within the next month or so, I'm going to drop it at whatever local metal recycler will take it, and/or rent a dumpster from the local landfill. I hate to do that, but I'm out of room, dang it! I need to MOVE this stuff! THE LIST Three DSD-880's with multiple manuals and diagnostic disks. Also included is a DEC-produced VHS training video on how to service the beasties, and at least one each of UniBus and Q-bus controllers for them (I say at least because I'm not sure how many of each I have). I will also include rack slides for the lot. A Fujitsu 'Super Eagle' SMD hard drive. Big rackmount beastie, spins up, comes ready, runs wonderfully quiet for its size. I've not tested it in-depth, but I see no reason why it should be anything but functional. Includes rack slides (nice aluminum-alloy ball-bearing ones, no less). Two Cipher 880 series front-load 9-track drives. One is a straight Cipher drive, the other is an OEM unit they did for DEC (a TSV05 if I'm not mistaken). I can also throw in at least one Qbus controller card, and at least one set of rack slides. A mid-size box full of 8" floppies with various software, including old versions of RT11. There's also a bunch of misc. DEC manuals. The only rule I'll make on this pile is that if you want any of it, you have to take it all! Two MicroVAX 2000's. One has been set up by me to be a handy formatter for those RD52's and RD54's that you Just Can't Find the Service Diagnostics tape for. I did this by making a special ribbon cable for it that's about twice as long as the original. This next item should be of interest to those who want to do graphics on the MicroVAX II and III: I have at least a pair of complete VCB02 graphics subsystems. This means two each of the controller boards, four each of the 4-plane color boards, two BIG 19" RGB monitors, cabling, keyboards, and 'hockey-puck' style electronic rodents. While not exactly computer-related, there might be some of you who have wanted to install an old 1A2 key telephone system in your place. Well, here's your chance! I have a Western Electric 551 series "shoebox" key service unit and some line cards to go along with it. You can route up to four lines through this beastie: All you need are some 25-pair cables and some keysets to go with it. I'll also be getting rid of a pair of rackmount SCSI drive enclosures. These are nice ones made by Control Data. The drives mount in special trays which then slide in the front (they hold two drives each) of the enclosures, and there are thumbwheel switches on the backside to select SCSI ID for each position. There may be some other bits and pieces that I'll find in the process of cleaning out, but that's the bulk of it. If you're interested in anything, please drop me an E-mail note and we'll set up a meeting. Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From bobstek at ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 19 20:25:26 1999 From: bobstek at ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for the help, Richard and DOn. Another weekend and I still haven't gotten the damn thing to read CP/M - either with Uniform or 22 Disk. I am making up a new cable EXACTLY as specified in the Compaticard manual - I'll let you know of any success (or continued failure!). Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Don Maslin Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 6:11 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, John Foust wrote: > At 09:36 PM 12/13/99 -0800, Don Maslin wrote: > >On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Bob Stek wrote: > >> Dick (or anyone else) - > >> > >> Would you have the jumper settings (default positions, definitions, etc.) > >> for a Shugart 860? DS0-3 I can figure out. But the rest... > > has an online PDF > version of the Shugart 801 manual, if that might help... > > - John Hopefully, this will clear the fog a bit. - don Shugart SA810/860 Customer Cut/Add Trace Options Trace As Shipped Designator Description Open Short U9 Terminations for Multiplexed Inputs Plugged SI Internal Write Current Switch Plugged SE External Write Current Switch X TR True Ready Output Plugged RTR Radial True Ready X 2S Two Sided Status Output*** X DC Disk Change Option X S1 Side Select Using Direction Select*** X S2 Side Select Input*** Plugged S3 Side Select Using Drive Select*** X 1B,2B,3B,4B Side Select Using Drive Select*** X D Alternate Input In Use X MS Motor On From Drive Select* Plugged MO Alternate Input Motor On* X MMO Alternate Input Multiplexed Motor On* X MD Motor Off Delay X R Ready Output X RR Radial Ready X SR Standard Ready Plugged MT Modified True Ready (Output On Pin 22) X DS1 Drive Select 1 DS2,3,4 Drive Select 2,3,4 Input Y Door Lock Light Activated From Motor On Plugged Z Door Lock Light Activated From Drive Select X PD Stepper Power Down X WP Inhibit Write When Write Protected X NP Allow Write When Write Protected X TS Data Separation Option Select X * Motor On is the complement of HEAD LOAD on the SA801/851 drives. ** SA810/860 offers an optional data separatorwhich properly separates data and clock bits through the soft sectored IBM standard format and address mark area. TS offers the option. *** Applies to SA860 only. From mrbill at mrbill.net Sun Dec 19 21:37:48 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: PDP-11/84s available in San Diego Message-ID: <19991219213748.P21696@mrbill.net> I'm not in San Diego, but I got Andy's permission to forward this to the list in case anybody IS there (or willing to go there) and rescue these machines... Bill ----- Forwarded message from Andy Bustamante ----- Reply-To: From: "Andy Bustamante" To: Subject: Re: announcing pdp11.org Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 00:28:05 -0800 Where are you? I have PDP 11/84's in San Diego waiting to be either scrapped or sold for parts. You'll have to come get them. ----- End forwarded message ----- -- +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ |Bill Bradford | mrbill@pdp11.org | mrbill@mrbill.net | |http://www.sunhelp.org | http://www.pdp11.org | http://www.mrbill.net| +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Sun Dec 19 23:14:44 1999 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: 11/44 Expansion chassis Message-ID: <19991220051444.66298.qmail@hotmail.com> John, I forgot to tell you, but if you need a PDP-11/44 User's Guide and PDP-11/44 System Technical Manual, I have both and would gladly provide them to you, as you actually *have* an 11/44. Let me know what other manuals you need and I'll keep my eyes out. Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 19 23:09:04 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: PDT-11? Message-ID: <007201bf4aa8$5629bbc0$ea22d1d8@default> What is a PDT-11? I just got one new in the box with 7,000+ pounds of other brand new (1965-1978) dec stuff. It has two TU-60s and looks like a VT100. As I am damn near dead and *very* sick... and my family and I had to load the stuff ourselves(last 2 days)... I am not able to list contents yet but .. "TU-56 units a-plenty". I will post pictures soon. I guess I don't have to say a Christmas tree this year is simply out of the question now..... [will be back online in a day or so when we get the trucks unloaded] john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: Eric Smith To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 19, 1999 4:19 PM Subject: Re: DECNA / Transciever question >Tony writes about the innards of 10-base-2 Ethernet transceivers: >> The power supply comes from an isolated DC-DC >> converter in the transceiver case which takes in 12V from the computer >> and gives out -9V for the transceiver chip. > >I'm not sure about separate transceivers, but the ones integrated on >NIC cards for PCs often used a little non-potted four-pin DC-DC converter >module made by TDK. At a guess, it's about 20 mm by 10 mm. I've successfully >kludged them onto boards that were designed for the potted module style. > >Anyhow, I have a lifetime supply of NOS of these TDK converters, so I could >sell some cheap or trade them for other small stuff. > >Eric > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 20 02:12:41 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform Message-ID: <001c01bf4ac1$fcf7b920$0400c0a8@winbook> I can't imagine what's stopping you from reading the diskette, except that I don't believe it helps you to have so many drive types present on the CompatiCard. Having sold mine, I can't reproduce your results. However, it's not a bad idea to read the first two tracks into memory if you can read anything at all, then try to correlate it with a known-good image of the BDOS and CCP. That will tell you about the sector skewing, etc. Some vendors number the sectors sequentially yet read them out of numerical sequence, in order to improve performance. Others write the sector numbers in the optimal arrangement, which is not in sequence from 0. One other gotcha is that some systems require that the first two tracks on the bootable diskette be single density, yet the rest can be double density. From mbg at world.std.com Mon Dec 20 06:59:22 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: PDT-11? Message-ID: <199912201259.HAA01535@world.std.com> >What is a PDT-11? I just got one new in the box with 7,000+ pounds of >other brand new (1965-1978) dec stuff. > >It has two TU-60s and looks like a VT100. What you have is a PDT-11/130. The tapes are TU58s, not TU60s. The PDT series is based on the LSI-11/2 chip set. The systems typically have a console port, printer port, async/sync comm port and three other serial ports. They are setup so that you can use 60 Kb of memory instead of the typical (for -11s) 56Kb (smaller I/O page). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 20 08:11:08 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. In-Reply-To: <000201bf4a70$551cb300$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> Message-ID: <199912201312.OAA11971@mail2.siemens.de> > I have an Olympia Olytext 20 computer but I don't have the OS for it. It's a > single board, Z-80 system, with a 3.5 inch FD. The manual said it used > CP/M-80 but I haven't been able to find any other information on the system, > or the OS. > No one that I've talked to knows anything about this PC, so I won't even > hope that anyone here would have the OS but... I'm wondering if there is a > way to make a new copy of the OS for this system? If I can find out the > hardware addressing, etc., can CP/M 80 be made to run on it, and without a > horrific amount of work? (I know, depends on what I consider a lot of > work.)I don't mind tedious, if it's do-able. The Olys did run eiter CP/M-80 2.x or one of two different propriatary OSes. I just have no Oly, so I can't supply any disks. Sorry H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 20 07:35:49 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: PDT-11? In-Reply-To: <007201bf4aa8$5629bbc0$ea22d1d8@default> Message-ID: > What is a PDT-11? I just got one new in the box with 7,000+ pounds of other > brand new (1965-1978) dec stuff. > > It has two TU-60s and looks like a VT100. It's two TU58s and the CPU is LSI-11. > the stuff ourselves(last 2 days)... I am not able to list contents yet but > .. "TU-56 units a-plenty". I will post pictures soon. I guess I don't have > to say a Christmas tree this year is simply out of the question now..... Much interest in getting one here. Allison From oliv555 at arrl.net Mon Dec 20 08:14:16 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: PDP-11/84s available in San Diego References: <19991219213748.P21696@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <385E39B8.7942924A@arrl.net> Andy, I am most interested in picking up one or more of these 11/84s if still available. I will be in the Los Angeles area for 2 weeks over the holidays and can pick up anytime after Thursday the 23rd. Hopefully some are still available. As I recall these came in a rackmount, a tabletop, and floorstanding enclosure versions. Let me know which type is/are available so I can bring appropriate transportation. Thanks. Regards, Nick Oliviero Bill Bradford wrote: > I'm not in San Diego, but I got Andy's permission to forward this to the > list in case anybody IS there (or willing to go there) and rescue these > machines... > ----- Forwarded message from Andy Bustamante ----- > > Reply-To: > From: "Andy Bustamante" > To: > Subject: Re: announcing pdp11.org > Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 00:28:05 -0800 > > Where are you? I have PDP 11/84's in San Diego waiting to be either > scrapped or sold for parts. You'll have to come get them. > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ > |Bill Bradford | mrbill@pdp11.org | mrbill@mrbill.net | > |http://www.sunhelp.org | http://www.pdp11.org | http://www.mrbill.net| > +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ From ernestls at home.com Mon Dec 20 08:47:29 1999 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:21 2005 Subject: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. In-Reply-To: <199912201312.OAA11971@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: <000001bf4af9$247ac140$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Hans Franke Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 5:12 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. > I have an Olympia Olytext 20 computer but I don't have the OS for it. It's a > single board, Z-80 system, with a 3.5 inch FD. The manual said it used > CP/M-80 but I haven't been able to find any other information on the system, > or the OS. I was looking through my junque box for a cable and found a little device I have no use for, but thought someone here might. It came, if memory serves, from a uVAX 2000. Has a 15-pin D-shell and 9-pin D-shell on one end, both female, and three female MMJ connectors on the other. There's a label that looks like: P/N 70-23766 VAR 01-A1 TN EE917 I remember plugging these into the uVAX to get three terminal ports. Anyway, if anyone wants it, ask. Shipping only, Thing is about 3.5 in. square by 1 in. thick, real light, so it won't be that much. Or if you're in the Sacramento, CA, USA area, you can drop by and pick it up. -- Dann Lunsford The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil dann@greycat.com is that men of good will do nothing. -- Cicero From mew_jac at swbell.net Mon Dec 20 09:40:34 1999 From: mew_jac at swbell.net (Mitch Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 & LSI-11 console References: <19991219213748.P21696@mrbill.net> <385E39B8.7942924A@arrl.net> Message-ID: <385E4DF2.4460@swbell.net> What's the deal with the LSI-11 console on 11/780's? It seems like the LSI-11 is the first thing to be ripped out for surplus. Is there a 4040 in it or someting? Also is there anyone actively restoring these beasts? --Mitch From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 20 09:40:18 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: uVAX serial "dongle" In-Reply-To: <19991220071029.A40813@greycat.com> Message-ID: > device I have no use for, but thought someone here might. It came, > if memory serves, from a uVAX 2000. Has a 15-pin D-shell and 9-pin > D-shell on one end, both female, and three female MMJ connectors on > the other. There's a label that looks like: > > P/N 70-23766 > VAR 01-A1 > TN EE917 > > I remember plugging these into the uVAX to get three terminal ports. Thats what it does. It's very handy for those VS2000 users that want a few more terminal lines or for an extra printer. IF there are no other takers I'm up for it. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 20 09:41:38 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 & LSI-11 console In-Reply-To: <385E4DF2.4460@swbell.net> Message-ID: It's just a vanilla LSI-11 and thats a manageable size system for most, the 780 is a bit daunting for many. Allison On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Mitch Wright wrote: > What's the deal with the LSI-11 console on 11/780's? It seems like the > LSI-11 is the first thing to be ripped out for surplus. Is there a 4040 > in it or someting? > > Also is there anyone actively restoring these beasts? > > --Mitch > From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Mon Dec 20 09:45:50 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 & LSI-11 console In-Reply-To: <385E4DF2.4460@swbell.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Mitch Wright wrote: > What's the deal with the LSI-11 console on 11/780's? It seems like the > LSI-11 is the first thing to be ripped out for surplus. Is there a 4040 > in it or someting? No, it is pretty pedestrian as LSI-11's go... > Also is there anyone actively restoring these beasts? Well... I've got one in my collection which I fully intend to light up one day... After I put in some heavy-duty power wiring for it that is! B^} Wonder just how much current that critter REALLY draws? -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org || jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Dec 20 09:45:59 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: uVAX serial "dongle" Message-ID: <19991220154559.22556.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dann Lunsford wrote: > I was looking through my junque box for a cable... > It came, if memory serves, from a uVAX 2000... P/N 70-23766... > I remember plugging these into the uVAX to get three terminal ports. > Anyway, if anyone wants it, ask. Allison beat me to it, or I'd ask. I have several uVAX-2000's and only one of the converters. While we're on this, does anyone else have a problem with broken jack screws on these? Mine came with the threads busted off inside the motherboard, and it's not the only one I've seen in that condition. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 20 11:12:15 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: uVAX serial "dongle" In-Reply-To: <19991220154559.22556.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Well, I did say if no one else wants it... Allison On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > > --- Dann Lunsford wrote: > > I was looking through my junque box for a cable... > > It came, if memory serves, from a uVAX 2000... P/N 70-23766... > > I remember plugging these into the uVAX to get three terminal ports. > > > Anyway, if anyone wants it, ask. > > Allison beat me to it, or I'd ask. I have several uVAX-2000's and only > one of the converters. > > While we're on this, does anyone else have a problem with broken jack > screws on these? Mine came with the threads busted off inside the > motherboard, and it's not the only one I've seen in that condition. > > -ethan > > > ===== > Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. > Please send all replies to > > erd@iname.com > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. > Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com > From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 20 12:37:40 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform In-Reply-To: <001c01bf4ac1$fcf7b920$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I can't imagine what's stopping you from reading the diskette, except that I > don't believe it helps you to have so many drive types present on the > CompatiCard. Having sold mine, I can't reproduce your results. However, > it's not a bad idea to read the first two tracks into memory if you can read > anything at all, then try to correlate it with a known-good image of the > BDOS and CCP. That will tell you about the sector skewing, etc. Some > vendors number the sectors sequentially yet read them out of numerical > sequence, in order to improve performance. Others write the sector numbers > in the optimal arrangement, which is not in sequence from 0. One other > gotcha is that some systems require that the first two tracks on the > bootable diskette be single density, yet the rest can be double density. I have to echo Dick's comments, Bob. The approach that I like to take when dealing with unknown disks or with an uncertain setup is to attempt to read a number of tracks using AnaDisk. In the case of unknown disks, this gives me the information that Dick spoke of. In the case of uncertain setup, it dis/proves that it is usable/readable. AnaDisk will also allow you to make a duplicate if that seems desirable. > >From your lament, I'd say your problems are still more basic than that, > however. If you havne't yet started on your rewiring task, I'd recommend > you wire to the external DC-37 connector rather than the internal auxilliary > 34-pin IDC cable connector. It'll not be easy to package an 8" drive > internally in your PC, so it's best to use the more durable connector. I agree here also. - don > If you have another CP/M box or access to one, you might be able to gain > important information by examining the diskette on a CP/M box. You might > even be able ot make a duplicate, though I've recently had trouble with > that. > > Dick > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Stek > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Sunday, December 19, 1999 7:27 PM > Subject: RE: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform > > > >Thanks for the help, Richard and DOn. Another weekend and I still haven't > >gotten the damn thing to read CP/M - either with Uniform or 22 Disk. I am > >making up a new cable EXACTLY as specified in the Compaticard manual - I'll > >let you know of any success (or continued failure!). > > > >Bob Stek > >bobstek@ix.netcom.com > >Saver of Lost SOLs > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > >[mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Don Maslin > >Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 1999 6:11 PM > >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Subject: Re: 8" drives and Compaticard / Uniform > > > > > > > > > >On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, John Foust wrote: > > > >> At 09:36 PM 12/13/99 -0800, Don Maslin wrote: > >> >On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, Bob Stek wrote: > >> >> Dick (or anyone else) - > >> >> > >> >> Would you have the jumper settings (default positions, definitions, > >etc.) > >> >> for a Shugart 860? DS0-3 I can figure out. But the rest... > >> > >> has an online PDF > >> version of the Shugart 801 manual, if that might help... > >> > >> - John > > > >Hopefully, this will clear the fog a bit. > > > > - don > > > > > > Shugart SA810/860 > > Customer Cut/Add Trace Options > > > > Trace As Shipped > > Designator Description Open Short > > U9 Terminations for Multiplexed Inputs Plugged > > SI Internal Write Current Switch Plugged > > SE External Write Current Switch X > > TR True Ready Output Plugged > > RTR Radial True Ready X > > 2S Two Sided Status Output*** X > > DC Disk Change Option X > > S1 Side Select Using Direction Select*** X > > S2 Side Select Input*** Plugged > > S3 Side Select Using Drive Select*** X > > 1B,2B,3B,4B Side Select Using Drive Select*** X > > D Alternate Input In Use X > > MS Motor On From Drive Select* Plugged > > MO Alternate Input Motor On* X > > MMO Alternate Input Multiplexed Motor On* X > > MD Motor Off Delay X > > R Ready Output X > > RR Radial Ready X > > SR Standard Ready Plugged > > MT Modified True Ready (Output On Pin 22) X > > DS1 Drive Select 1 > > DS2,3,4 Drive Select 2,3,4 Input > > Y Door Lock Light Activated From Motor On Plugged > > Z Door Lock Light Activated From Drive Select X > > PD Stepper Power Down X > > WP Inhibit Write When Write Protected X > > NP Allow Write When Write Protected X > > TS Data Separation Option Select X > > > > * Motor On is the complement of HEAD LOAD on the SA801/851 drives. > > ** SA810/860 offers an optional data separatorwhich properly > > separates data and clock bits through the soft sectored IBM > > standard format and address mark area. TS offers the option. > > *** Applies to SA860 only. > > > > > > > > > > From relayer at dotplanet.com Mon Dec 20 12:05:39 1999 From: relayer at dotplanet.com (Jeff Salzman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Commodore computer equipment in pristine condition References: <19991220095300.SM00182@mail.dotplanet.com> Message-ID: <99122013073803.00904@wlinux01.hersheys.com> OK. Who's running MS Outlook???? This file screams of being a virus or trojan horse From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Dec 20 12:51:36 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: uVAX serial "dongle" Message-ID: <19991220185136.15910.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> --- allisonp@world.std.com wrote: > Well, I did say if no one else wants it... > > Allison You did, but you also spoke up first (at least as far as I can tell). If it's not a problem, I do want it. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 20 13:17:31 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Very Wierd someone is masquarading as the mail list? In-Reply-To: <199912201756.JAA17432@jumping-spider.aracnet.com> Message-ID: Has anyone gotten a eMail message that appears to have come from the mailing list with the header "Re: Help identify a Control Data piece", when in reality it looks to have come from "helpdesk-pc.pittstate.edu [198.248.209.153]" if I'm reading the headers right. Included in the message was a Windows executable that is supposedly a recent animation from the site their advertising. Somehow I suspect a Trojan Horse, but doens't really matter I'm using Eudora on a Mac. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Mon Dec 20 12:43:24 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. In-Reply-To: <199912201312.OAA11971@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > > > I have an Olympia Olytext 20 computer but I don't have the OS for it. It's a > > single board, Z-80 system, with a 3.5 inch FD. The manual said it used > > CP/M-80 but I haven't been able to find any other information on the system, > > or the OS. > > > No one that I've talked to knows anything about this PC, so I won't even > > hope that anyone here would have the OS but... I'm wondering if there is a > > way to make a new copy of the OS for this system? If I can find out the > > hardware addressing, etc., can CP/M 80 be made to run on it, and without a > > horrific amount of work? (I know, depends on what I consider a lot of > > work.)I don't mind tedious, if it's do-able. > > The Olys did run eiter CP/M-80 2.x or one of two different > propriatary OSes. I just have no Oly, so I can't supply > any disks. > > Sorry > H. > > -- > Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. > H.Achternbusch > If anyone turns up a copy/copies of the operating system and can provide it to me, perhaps I can be of help the next time! - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 858-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj/ visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site Mirrors at: http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm/ http://deltasoft.fife.wa.us/cpm http://cpm.interfun.net From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon Dec 20 13:22:42 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Very Wierd someone is masquarading as the mail list? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Doesn't matter... it was so transparently UCE or a bomb of some kind... I just sent it to dev/null where all such cyberfaeces belong. And now, back to your Regularly Scheduled MailList... Cheers and Best of the Season John From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 20 13:30:48 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: PDT-11? References: Message-ID: <9912201431170Q.05829@vault.neurotica.com> On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, allisonp@world.std.com wrote: >> the stuff ourselves(last 2 days)... I am not able to list contents yet but >> .. "TU-56 units a-plenty". I will post pictures soon. I guess I don't have >> to say a Christmas tree this year is simply out of the question now..... > >Much interest in getting one here. Same here... -Dave McGuire From cfandt at netsync.net Mon Dec 20 13:34:12 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Watch out! was: Re: Very Wierd someone is masquarading as the mail list? In-Reply-To: References: <199912201756.JAA17432@jumping-spider.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19991220143024.00ad5510@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 11:17 AM 12/20/99 -0800, Zane H. Healy said something like: >Has anyone gotten a eMail message that appears to have come from the >mailing list with the header "Re: Help identify a Control Data piece", when >in reality it looks to have come from "helpdesk-pc.pittstate.edu >[198.248.209.153]" if I'm reading the headers right. > >Included in the message was a Windows executable that is supposedly a >recent animation from the site their advertising. Somehow I suspect a >Trojan Horse, but doens't really matter I'm using Eudora on a Mac. DON'T open any email attachments you may have gotten in the past days _unless_ you knew of a particular one coming beforehand. I just got a spam msg, with an attachment connected, sent directly to my mailbox purported to be from ClassicCmp. The attachment is a worm. It was promptly erased from my hard disk's Eudora email attachment folder as I normally do with unknown attachments. To compare notes on this and to perhaps give leads to our spam trackers (Bruce Lane, et al), I posted a copy of the text without the attachment as follows. It was in HTML but I am posting it in plain-text. I expanded the header to show that it came from pittstate.edu and _not_ ClassicCmp. To wit: >>>>BEGIN copy > > Received: from mail.netsync.net (helpdesk-pc.pittstate.edu [198.248.209.153]) > by quartz.netsync.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA15291 > for cfandt@netsync.net; Mon, 20 Dec 1999 12:51:48 -0500 > Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 12:51:48 -0500 > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > Message-Id: <199912201751.MAA15291@quartz.netsync.net> > To: cfandt@netsync.net > Subject: Re: PDP-8/L and TTY stuff (was Re: TTY and current loop questions) > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01AF0E92.A4E9CDO0" > X-UIDL: cb45a46697b9dcf0ad694e2c44714d08 > > > > http://stuart.messagemates.com/ > index.html > > Hypercool Happy New Year 2000 funny programs and animations... > We attached our recent animation from this site in our mail ! Check it out ! >>>>END copy Note the msg subject was not what Zane reported. Okay Bruce and others, it seems somebody may have been either lurking on the list and harvesting email addresses or broken into u.washington.edu's server and spoofed their server into the classiccmp list. The same problem has been happening with another list I'm a member of. A leadoff message in a thread discussing it is copied below and can fill you in some info already known of this: >>>>BEGIN copy > > Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 17:22:25 -0600 > Reply-To: John Farrington > Sender: Heathkit Owners and Collectors List > From: John Farrington > Subject: More viruses being sent directly to list users > Comments: cc: AI7R-PK > To: HEATH@LISTSERV.TEMPE.GOV > > Virus attachments to E-mails continue to be E-mailed directly to users > of this list (not via the list): ^^^^^^^^ > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > On 12/18/99 Dave (AI7R, List Admin) mentioned that: > > Myself and at least one other person has gotten a message from an > > unknown source that contained what looked like a copy of the bboy.exe > > (Bubble Boy) virus. We didn't open it to find out of course, and > > that's exactly what you have to do if you get one...not open it. > > Today I received a similar worm attachment named "HOG.EXE", so be > warned that someone with access to this list is sending destructive > virus/worm files directly to our E-mail addresses copied from the > list. There is a notice about these worms and others on Symantec's > site at: > > http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/worm.newapt.html > > The E-mail message will have a subject line from messages posted on > the Heath list, and the return address may be forged to make it look > like it originated from yourself via your local ISP. > > The attached worm file may be named something like these: > > g-zilla.exe, cooler3.exe, cooler1.exe, copier.exe, video.exe, > pirate.exe, goal1.exe, hog.exe, party.exe, saddam.exe, monica.exe, > boss.exe, farter.exe, cheeseburst.exe, panther.exe, theobbq.exe, > goal.exe, baby.exe, bboy.exe, cupid2.exe, fborfw.exe, casper.exe, > irnglant.exe, or gadget.exe. > > In this case the bogus E-mail came from or via 209.123.116.60, which > belongs to: > > Net Access Corp., 110 S. Jefferson Rd, Newton, NJ, 07860, > and/or 104 Broadway, Denville, NJ, 07834, > Coordinator Ryan Pavely (201) 983-0725 > paradox@NAC.NET, > > so perhaps someone on our list has local access to that phone number > and could inform Mr. Pavely that one of NAC's addresses is being used > to forward virus files. Maybe they have the means to trace it. > > 73 > > John Farrington KE5ZB > > A worm named HOG.EXE > > Sponsored by the City of Tempe > > Listserver Submissions: heath@listserv.tempe.gov > Listserver Subscription: listserv@listserv.tempe.gov - "subscribe heath > 'name' 'call'" > Listserver Unsubscribe: listserv@listserv.tempe.gov - -"signoff heath" >>>> END copy Notice there are many names other than cooler3.exe said to be used for this worm. HOG.EXE may be another one according to the msg from the Heath list. Dammit, these slimeballs are getting craftier as time goes by. --Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From aek at spies.com Mon Dec 20 13:42:52 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: PDT-11? Message-ID: <199912201942.LAA01692@spies.com> "As I am damn near dead and *very* sick... and my family and I had to load the stuff ourselves(last 2 days)... I am not able to list contents yet but .. "TU-56 units a-plenty". I will post pictures soon. I guess I don't have to say a Christmas tree this year is simply out of the question now..... " As much as we love the preservation of old computers, the health of you and your family is more important. This stuff has been around for decades, take a break, enjoy the holidays, and get back to all of this when you're feeling better. --al From ndiablo at diablonet.net Mon Dec 20 14:52:15 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: PDT-11? Message-ID: <19991220205215.15169.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> I think the PDT-11 was some sort of LSI-11 based "intelligent terminal".. I know someone else out there has one that they did a page on; you can find it at http://www.ultranet.com/~cfriend/museum/machines/pdt-11150.html -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From ndiablo at diablonet.net Mon Dec 20 14:59:07 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 & LSI-11 console Message-ID: <19991220205907.15287.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Well, there's a LSI-11 based PDP system (11/04, i think?) that served as the front-end processor for the system... Nothing really strange about them, besides that PDP sytems are really rather collectible in their own right. - Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From ndiablo at diablonet.net Mon Dec 20 15:08:17 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Very Wierd someone is masquarading as the mail list? Message-ID: <19991220210817.15498.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Yeah, I dont know what that was, but I got a mail from the same machine only in response to the "Toshiba T3100e/40" question... it included some DOS/Windows executable in attachment.. I'm running UNIX mail, so the whole conflagaration didnt hurt me much, though :) - Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 20 14:46:59 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: PDP-11/84s available in San Diego In-Reply-To: <385E39B8.7942924A@arrl.net> References: <19991219213748.P21696@mrbill.net> Message-ID: >As I recall these came in a rackmount, a tabletop, and floorstanding >enclosure >versions. Let me know which type is/are available so I can bring appropriate >transportation. Thanks. I know nothing about this specific situation, but a good rule of thumb is to bring as big of a truck as you can and hope for the best. From oliv555 at arrl.net Mon Dec 20 14:55:24 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: PDP-11/84s available in San Diego References: <19991219213748.P21696@mrbill.net> <385E39B8.7942924A@arrl.net> Message-ID: <385E97BC.36F42357@arrl.net> Nick Oliviero wrote: > Andy, > > I am most interested in picking up one or more of these 11/84s if still available. My apologies, obviously my previous posting was meant for that surplus dealer. I need to stay away from the keyboard after working the midnite shift! Nick From jbmcb at hotmail.com Mon Dec 20 15:57:43 1999 From: jbmcb at hotmail.com (Jason McBrien) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Weekend Aquisitions References: Message-ID: <19991220215909.64233.qmail@hotmail.com> Went to a computer service warehouse that was going out of business. For the cost of buying the cleanup crew lunch, I picked up: -A box of DEC manuals -An AlphaServer 2000 4/200(!) -System boards for a VAX 8200 and 7000 -Licenses and media for DEC OSF/1 (AXP) -A few VAXStations -Misc RX model drives -A replacement drive module for an RA-82 that looks like a car transmission. -Video boards for DECStation 5000s If I would have had a U-Haul I swear I would have picked up the 11/780. Ever seen the power connector for that thing? Looks like you wire it directly to a high tension power line. I couldn't get into it to swipe the cpu cards because I didn't have the special torx-wrench thing, but I almost convinced the driver of the hi-lo to pry it open. Now it's destined for the scrap-metal melter :( Happy holidays and I hope your scavenging is as fruitful as mine! From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 20 16:00:26 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Watch out! was: Re: Very Wierd someone is masquarading as the mail list? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991220143024.00ad5510@206.231.8.2> References: <199912201756.JAA17432@jumping-spider.aracnet.com> Message-ID: >Note the msg subject was not what Zane reported. > >Okay Bruce and others, it seems somebody may have been either lurking on the >list and harvesting email addresses or broken into u.washington.edu's server >and spoofed their server into the classiccmp list. > >The same problem has been happening with another list I'm a member of. A >leadoff message in a thread discussing it is copied below and can fill you in >some info already known of this: I think the problem is that someone has an infected PC and whenever they read a message from one of us, we promptly get that reply. What can I say? Eudora, Mac's, Linux, or other non-Windows OS's are your friends :^) Guess we should be glad there aren't a *lot* of people running MS Outlook on this list! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Mon Dec 20 14:38:31 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Very Wierd someone is masquarading as the mail list? In-Reply-To: "Zane H. Healy" "Very Wierd someone is masquarading as the mail list?" (Dec 20, 11:17) References: Message-ID: <9912202038.ZM14879@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 20, 11:17, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Has anyone gotten a eMail message that appears to have come from the > mailing list with the header "Re: Help identify a Control Data piece", Yes, but I'm using a Unix box so it wouldn't have hurt. Anyway, it's my habit to discard attachments wihout looking, unless I'm expecting something (and I'm sure I'm not the only listmember who does; those who regularly send 'multipart' message might think about that :-)) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 20 17:16:55 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Watch out! was: Re: Very Wierd someone is masquarading as the mail list? In-Reply-To: References: <4.1.19991220143024.00ad5510@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: <199912202217.XAA04189@mail2.siemens.de> > >Note the msg subject was not what Zane reported. > >Okay Bruce and others, it seems somebody may have been either lurking on the > >list and harvesting email addresses or broken into u.washington.edu's server > >and spoofed their server into the classiccmp list. > >The same problem has been happening with another list I'm a member of. A > >leadoff message in a thread discussing it is copied below and can fill you in > >some info already known of this: > I think the problem is that someone has an infected PC and whenever they > read a message from one of us, we promptly get that reply. > What can I say? Eudora, Mac's, Linux, or other non-Windows OS's are your > friends :^) Guess we should be glad there aren't a *lot* of people running > MS Outlook on this list! Well, I'm not a WinFanatic, and I will wash my mouth afterwards, but that's not a windows problem - I'm running NT 3.51 (I have to) and I have no problem to avoide unusefull programms. Gruss H. BTW: isn't there an Outlook version for the Mac :)) -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From jallain at databaseamerica.com Mon Dec 20 16:43:51 1999 From: jallain at databaseamerica.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 update In-Reply-To: <19991218055027.88837.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <000101bf4b3b$b09c2500$0e0301ac@dba00802.databaseamerica.com> I know its kinda wrong to reply during this week, but here goes... > ...The console says "_~" ... A data transmission mismatch can look just like this. Most minis I know of will converse in a limited way even w/o a disk. Do you know for a fact that the baud/bits/parity match between the host and the terminal? Does the terminal recieve more strange characters if you hit a bunch of 's or other keys after this? Are there signs of audible system activity given off by the disks? (Either you hear enough disk motions to indicate a boot-up sequence at power on, and/or do you hear a reaction to the terminal being accessed?) PS. These checks will be useful but less valid if this particular machine is set in a mode where it doesn't necessarily have to boot up, IE as with an older uVax II with the switch on the back thrown. The 3100 might not even have such a switch... John A. -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Will Jennings Sent: Saturday, December 18, 1999 12:50 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: MicroVAX 3100 update Hi, OK, so the MicroVAX is *still* not responding... I've at least ruled the power supply and the terminal and the terminal cables out however. I put the power supply from the functional VAXstation 3100 in the MicroVAX, hooked up the Wyse 50 I use with the VAXstation along with its DECConnect cable to the MicroVAX (BTW; I used the MicroVAX's manual to set up the VAXstation, therefore the cable must be plugged in properly), and turned the critter on... same results as before.. The console says "_~" and that is about it.. The manual talked about that possibly indicating a disk drive problem, but I tried it both with and without hard disk.. no dice. Any further ideas? Also, I'm going to be finally updating my website with *far* more Interdata/Perkin-Elmer/Concurrent info than anyone could possibly want, along with the same scope of Nova 1210 info, including the sheet on how to modify an ASR-33 with the DGC teletype interface board. Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 20 16:40:33 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Watch out! was: Re: Very Wierd someone is masquarading as the mail list? In-Reply-To: <199912202217.XAA04189@mail2.siemens.de> References: <4.1.19991220143024.00ad5510@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: >Well, I'm not a WinFanatic, and I will wash my mouth afterwards, but >that's not a windows problem - I'm running NT 3.51 (I have to) and I >have no problem to avoide unusefull programms. Lucky you, I'm running AIX at work, yet I've got a Outlook account. Not sure how I'm supposed to access it, or if anything is in the inbox... >BTW: isn't there an Outlook version for the Mac :)) Yes, and it's disturbingly difficult to avoid having it polute your system, even when you do a clean install. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From wpe101 at banet.net Mon Dec 20 16:54:50 1999 From: wpe101 at banet.net (wpe101@banet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Watch out! was: Re: Very Wierd someone is masquarading as the mail list? References: <4.1.19991220143024.00ad5510@206.231.8.2> <199912202217.XAA04189@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: <385EB3BA.AAE9CA71@banet.net> If it's of any use in helping to trace it, I've seen no sign of these messages or attachments here, and I've been following the two threads mentioned.. Will Hans Franke wrote: > > >Note the msg subject was not what Zane reported. > > > >Okay Bruce and others, it seems somebody may have been either lurking on the > > >list and harvesting email addresses or broken into u.washington.edu's server > > >and spoofed their server into the classiccmp list. > > > >The same problem has been happening with another list I'm a member of. A > > >leadoff message in a thread discussing it is copied below and can fill you in > > >some info already known of this: > > > I think the problem is that someone has an infected PC and whenever they > > read a message from one of us, we promptly get that reply. > > > What can I say? Eudora, Mac's, Linux, or other non-Windows OS's are your > > friends :^) Guess we should be glad there aren't a *lot* of people running > > MS Outlook on this list! > > Well, I'm not a WinFanatic, and I will wash my mouth afterwards, but > that's not a windows problem - I'm running NT 3.51 (I have to) and I > have no problem to avoide unusefull programms. > > Gruss > H. > BTW: isn't there an Outlook version for the Mac :)) > > -- > Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. > H.Achternbusch From cem14 at cornell.edu Mon Dec 20 17:02:28 1999 From: cem14 at cornell.edu (Carlos Murillo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Watch out! was: Re: Very Wierd someone is masquarading as the mail list? In-Reply-To: <385EB3BA.AAE9CA71@banet.net> References: <4.1.19991220143024.00ad5510@206.231.8.2> <199912202217.XAA04189@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19991220180228.00f52bc4@postoffice3.mail.cornell.edu> At 05:54 PM 12/20/99 -0500, you wrote: >If it's of any use in helping to trace it, I've seen no sign of these messages or >attachments here, >and I've been following the two threads mentioned.. > >Will Now that you have posted to the list, you probably will. And so will I. Carlos. From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Dec 20 17:21:49 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Please help me clean out! References: <3.0.5.32.19991219161942.009552e0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <385EBA0D.11B3B42@idirect.com> >Bruce Lane wrote: > Fellow CLASSICCMP'ers, > > I need help cleaning out, and I DON'T want to ship anything this time, so > this will be LOCAL PICKUP ONLY from Kent, WA (southeast of Seattle). > > [Snip] > > A mid-size box full of 8" floppies with various software, including old > versions of RT11. There's also a bunch of misc. DEC manuals. The only rule > I'll make on this pile is that if you want any of it, you have to take it all! Jerome Fine replies: I understand that local pickup is required, however, being in Toronto is impossible. However, if no one else is actually going to go through the 8" floppies, I would appreciate being considered. If anything is sad, it is knowing that some of that stuff should be archived and if it goes to someone who just wants the manuals, they the software may be lost. If as I suspect, anything on an 8" floppy will be very old, but could be a interest to be saved. If someone does pickup them up, please give them my e-mail address and ask them to contact me. Perhaps we can exchange stuff of interest. Also, let me know how it goes with the DSD 880/30 drives. I also have a pile and I doubt if anyone will want them when the time comes within a year or two to let them go. If there is anyone in the Toronto area who would like them, please e-mail me. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Dec 20 17:35:58 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: 19" racks available Message-ID: <199912202335.RAA18310@caesar.cs.umn.edu> Someone called me to offer 2 19" full height racks. These are in minneapolis, on the loading dock of Riverplace, in Saint Anthony Main. They were asking to see if someone here atthe university would want them, but I rather doubt that anyone does. Especially considering how cold it is right now.. So, if you've been looking for a 19" rack to give as a Xmas present, and you're in the area... -Lawrence LeMay From mbg at world.std.com Mon Dec 20 17:39:50 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: PDT-11? Message-ID: <199912202339.SAA23937@world.std.com> >> the stuff ourselves(last 2 days)... I am not able to list contents yet >> but .. "TU-56 units a-plenty". I will post pictures soon. I guess I >> don't have to say a Christmas tree this year is simply out of the >> question now..... > >Much interest in getting one here. TU56's? Same here! Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 20 17:47:36 1999 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Need information. Message-ID: <19991220234736.6544.qmail@hotmail.com> I need info. on an unusual item I found at my High School: It apparently appears to be a dedicated word processing computer, what I have below is all I know about it (& it's not much either!). Manufacturer: Computype, Inc. Model: Compuedit Year: 1981 (?) If anybody can tell me anything about it, please reply on this board. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From lemay at cs.umn.edu Mon Dec 20 17:52:15 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: PDT-11? In-Reply-To: <199912202339.SAA23937@world.std.com> from Megan at "Dec 20, 1999 06:39:50 pm" Message-ID: <199912202352.RAA18388@caesar.cs.umn.edu> > > >> the stuff ourselves(last 2 days)... I am not able to list contents yet > >> but .. "TU-56 units a-plenty". I will post pictures soon. I guess I > >> don't have to say a Christmas tree this year is simply out of the > >> question now..... > > > >Much interest in getting one here. > > TU56's? Same here! > > Megan Gentry > Former RT-11 Developer Though i didnt read that statement as an actual offer of availability... Me Too. -Lawrence LeMay From mbg at world.std.com Mon Dec 20 18:06:48 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Please help me clean out! References: <3.0.5.32.19991219161942.009552e0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <199912210006.TAA12635@world.std.com> >... however, being in Toronto is impossible. Gee, Jerome, I'm sorry to hear it is so tough living up there... :-) I'm in the same boat, though... I wish I could get something shipped, I would like one or more of the DSD drives... they are nice compact units (which format 8" floppies) which go well with the 11/23s, 11/53s and 11/73s in BA11-M boxes that I have... Ah well... If someone who *can* make it to pick anything up can grab the DSDs and handle the shipping, I sure would appreciate it... (I would, of course, pay for shipping) Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From at258 at osfn.org Mon Dec 20 18:18:55 1999 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Need information. In-Reply-To: <19991220234736.6544.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: In one of our donations, we received an incomplete "Systel". Does anyone know anything about this machine? It may be a word processor. We seem to be lacking a keyboard and, possibly, printer. M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 20 18:26:29 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: uVAX serial "dongle" Message-ID: <199912210026.TAA22665@world.std.com> My mailer is only slightly dumber than Pine so that attachment was curious but otherwise meaningless to my Win3.1 system. Security by obscurity and narrow functionality. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 20 18:27:05 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: PDT-11? Message-ID: <199912210027.TAA22957@world.std.com> I have one and a complete board set for another. The PDT11/150 is the RX01 disk based version using the same board set, different roms and a RX01 compatable disk system. Both are kinda cute if only they were PDP11 in a tiny space back when useful systems were not small. (1980ish) Allison From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 20 18:36:37 1999 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Who invented the first "clamshell" laptop? Message-ID: <19991221003637.46819.qmail@hotmail.com> Just a little trivia question I thought I'd ask everybody, here it is: Who (by company, that is) invented the first "clamshell" laptop? I am tempted to believe it is either GRiD or Zenith Data Systems that introduced this style, but if I had to, I'd lay my money on GRiD. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 20 18:40:55 1999 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Indus GT problem. Message-ID: <19991221004055.52560.qmail@hotmail.com> I am having a problem with my Indus GT disk drive that is conntected to my Commodore 64C. I have already cheked the obvious (plugged in, turned on, etc.), but it still refuses to power up. Is there a fuse somewhere that needs to be replaced? Or is it just the power supply? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 20 18:45:37 1999 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Price question. Message-ID: <19991221004537.74866.qmail@hotmail.com> Does anybody know what is the asking price for a GRiD PalmPad (XT class)? I am thinking about getting one of these one of these days. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ndiablo at diablonet.net Mon Dec 20 19:47:00 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Who invented the first "clamshell" laptop? Message-ID: <19991221014700.21042.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Hmm.. I agree with you, either Zenith or Grid, but I think it might have actually been Zenith... or so I think i remember seeing once :) -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Dec 20 18:54:02 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Who invented the first "clamshell" laptop? In-Reply-To: <19991221014700.21042.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991220195402.00a379b0@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that ndiablo@diablonet.net may have mentioned these words: >Hmm.. I agree with you, either Zenith or Grid, but I think it might have >actually been Zenith... or so I think i remember seeing once :) > >-Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) By "clamshell" if you mean the screen flips open, then the Tandy 200 *I think* came before either of them, and was OEM'd by Kyocera. Zenith did OEM the Tandy 600, which AFAIK was the first laptop with a built-in floppy drive. Don't take my word for gospel, of course... ;-) YMMV (and mine sucks), Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Dec 20 19:16:21 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Price question. In-Reply-To: <19991221004537.74866.qmail@hotmail.com> References: <19991221004537.74866.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <19991220191621.A1353@mrbill.net> On Tue, Dec 21, 1999 at 12:45:37AM +0000, David Vohs wrote: > Does anybody know what is the asking price for a GRiD PalmPad (XT class)? I > am thinking about getting one of these one of these days. I've seen them go for under $100, easily findable on eBay. Bill -- +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ |Bill Bradford | mrbill@pdp11.org | mrbill@mrbill.net | |http://www.sunhelp.org | http://www.pdp11.org | http://www.mrbill.net| +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Mon Dec 20 19:25:31 1999 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 update Message-ID: <19991221012531.32342.qmail@hotmail.com> John, Yes, the terminal is set up exactly the way the MicroVAX 3100 manual said to set it up, 9600, 8-n-1, I believe.. I can hear the disk spin up. I can hammer away on the keyboard all I want and the terminal never reads more than that gibberish... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dann at greycat.com Mon Dec 20 19:44:31 1999 From: dann at greycat.com (Dann Lunsford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: uVAX serial "dongle" In-Reply-To: <199912210026.TAA22665@world.std.com> References: <199912210026.TAA22665@world.std.com> Message-ID: <19991220174431.A41944@greycat.com> On Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 07:26:29PM -0500, Allison J Parent wrote: > < > <-ethan > > I repeat, _IF_ someone else didn't want it. There is no, I'm first in > that. ;) > > By all means claim it. I just didn't want a useful item like that to go > to waste. > Heh. Didn't mean to start a food fight :-). Ethan, send me your shipping addy and I'll stick the device in the outgoing datastream. As I said, this thing is light, so it won't be much. Just glad to see it go where it's of some use. My garage is full of stuff like this; only problem is, I'm a little scared to go exploring -- my garage show distinct signs of having a slightly malfunctioning dimensional stabilizer running somewhere inside it :-). -- Dann Lunsford The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil dann@greycat.com is that men of good will do nothing. -- Cicero From vaxman at uswest.net Mon Dec 20 19:57:30 1999 From: vaxman at uswest.net (Clint Wolff (VAX collector)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: VAX 11/780 & LSI-11 console In-Reply-To: <385E4DF2.4460@swbell.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Mitch Wright wrote: > What's the deal with the LSI-11 console on 11/780's? It seems like the > LSI-11 is the first thing to be ripped out for surplus. Is there a 4040 > in it or someting? > > Also is there anyone actively restoring these beasts? > > --Mitch > I've been looking for one (or two) 780s in Colorado for a while now, but haven't found one. (Though a 785 sold from rocky flats for $40 recently...) If anyone runs across one in working condition I'd love to rescue it :) Clint (who isn't married and can have a 780 in the living room) From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Dec 20 20:15:54 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: Watch out! was: Re: Very Wierd someone is masquarading as the mail list? In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991220143024.00ad5510@206.231.8.2> References: <199912201756.JAA17432@jumping-spider.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991220181554.00932b70@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 14:34 20-12-1999 -0500, you wrote: >Upon the date 11:17 AM 12/20/99 -0800, Zane H. Healy said something like: >>Has anyone gotten a eMail message that appears to have come from the >>mailing list with the header "Re: Help identify a Control Data piece", when >>in reality it looks to have come from "helpdesk-pc.pittstate.edu >>[198.248.209.153]" if I'm reading the headers right. I just DNS'd that address. It's from Pitt-State all right. InterNIC contact info, for those of you that wish to follow up, is: Registrant: Pittsburg State University (PITTSTATE-DOM) Office of Information Systems 1701 S. Broadway Pittsburg, KS 66762 Domain Name: PITTSTATE.EDU Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact: Brennan, J. Michael (JMB84) psuadm@MAIL.PITTSTATE.EDU 316-235-4603 Billing Contact: Brennan, J. Michael (JMB84) psuadm@MAIL.PITTSTATE.EDU 316-235-4603 Record last updated on 28-Jan-1999. Record created on 25-May-1993. Database last updated on 20-Dec-1999 12:58:05 EST. Domain servers in listed order: PSUNAMES.PITTSTATE.EDU 198.182.243.15 XPSUNAMES.PITTSTATE.EDU 198.248.214.15 I'm not the only one who can fight spam. ;-) Most universities have pretty strong anti-abuse policies, so forwarding a copy of the crap to the E-addy above should get quick action. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Dec 20 20:19:41 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: An odd request... Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991220181941.00929100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> I just had a kind of odd request. This one's for the Apple gurus on the list: Is it at all possible, through hardware, software, or 'other,' to read 5.25" floppies written on an Apple IIe on a PC? Taking that one step further: Has anyone heard of the word processing program 'Zardax,' and if so, do you know if it's possible to convert its files to a more common format? Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Dec 20 20:20:43 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: uVAX serial "dongle" Message-ID: <19991221022043.14178.qmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> --- Dann Lunsford wrote: > On Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 07:26:29PM -0500, Allison J Parent wrote: > > > > < > > <-ethan > > > > I repeat, _IF_ someone else didn't want it. There is no, I'm first in > > that. ;) > > > > By all means claim it. I just didn't want a useful item like that to go > > to waste. Thank you, Allison. > Heh. Didn't mean to start a food fight :-). Ethan, send me your shipping > addy... I'll send it under a private cover. Thanks. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From bobstek at ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 20 20:28:31 1999 From: bobstek at ix.netcom.com (Bob Stek) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: An odd request... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991220181941.00929100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: I beleive that you need a MatchPoint board from MicroSolutions to do that. It was advertised to be able to read both NorthStar and Apple formatted disks. I have never tried it with an Apple disk, though. I've never heard of Zardax, but it's name is reminiscent of either a space invader-type game or perhaps a laxative . Bob Stek bobstek@ix.netcom.com Saver of Lost SOLs (and N*'s, too) -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Bruce Lane Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 9:20 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: An odd request... I just had a kind of odd request. This one's for the Apple gurus on the list: Is it at all possible, through hardware, software, or 'other,' to read 5.25" floppies written on an Apple IIe on a PC? Taking that one step further: Has anyone heard of the word processing program 'Zardax,' and if so, do you know if it's possible to convert its files to a more common format? Thanks in advance. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Mon Dec 20 20:31:27 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: An odd request... Message-ID: <991220213127.246005e0@trailing-edge.com> > I just had a kind of odd request. > > This one's for the Apple gurus on the list: Is it at all possible, through >hardware, software, or 'other,' to read 5.25" floppies written on an Apple >IIe on a PC? Yes. Two ways: 1. Use a specialized "free-format" floppy disk controller in a PC-clone. Typically requires a non-negligible $ and time investment. 2. Hook an Apple ][ with disk drive to the "output target" system via a serial cable. Really, the best way to do this (and I've been doing this for a few decades now!) is #2 - the best Apple ][ floppy disk controller for a PC *is* an Apple ][! > Taking that one step further: Has anyone heard of the word processing >program 'Zardax,' and if so, do you know if it's possible to convert its >files to a more common format? Sure, it's largely flat ASCII with some escape codes thrown in (and, IIRC, it has the high bit set through most of the text, very reminiscent of Pr1me text files.) Image the floppy, dump the files, no big deal. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From eric at brouhaha.com Mon Dec 20 20:09:34 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:22 2005 Subject: An odd request... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991220181941.00929100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> (message from Bruce Lane on Mon, 20 Dec 1999 18:19:41 -0800) References: <3.0.5.32.19991220181941.00929100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <19991221020934.3591.qmail@brouhaha.com> Bruce Lane asks: > This one's for the Apple gurus on the list: Is it at all possible, through > hardware, software, or 'other,' to read 5.25" floppies written on an Apple > IIe on a PC? Hardware. The easiest-to-find hardware accessory for a PC to read Apple ][ diskettes is an Apple ][ with a serial card. But there were special boards that could do it. From ndiablo at diablonet.net Mon Dec 20 21:40:07 1999 From: ndiablo at diablonet.net (ndiablo@diablonet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: An odd request... Message-ID: <19991221034007.23452.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Unfortunently, I think it's impossible, as Apple disks used a totally different recording format than PC disks do/did. AFAIK, the only alternatives are an original Apple box or a Mac decked out with the Apple 5.25" drive. -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Mon Dec 20 20:52:28 1999 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Microvax 3400 References: <19991221004537.74866.qmail@hotmail.com> <19991220191621.A1353@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <00cc01bf4b5e$6c0d8e60$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Have acquired at auction for a mere $30AU (a real one not Ebay) a Microvax 3400 ex Defence Science and Technology Organisation at Salisbury. Unfortunately it's missing its (DSSI) drives. I hate that. Security... Seems to have the following bits in a biggish cube on casters. (BA213 I think). TQK50 M7546-00 TK50 Controller TK50 tape drive KFQSA-SA M7769 Storage Adapter (DSSI Disk Interface) It/they seems to have about 6 of the little Honda connectors. I think this might have multiple controllers or something similar. There are 3 front panels with the same lights and connectors anyway. DRQ3B-SA M7658-PA 2 port parallel interface (If I'm looking at the right bits, it has a couple of connectors that look more like old type SCSI (Sorta oversized female Centronics connectors?) on the front panel. What in heck did these talk to? A line printer? What was evidently the DSSI daisy chain cable is floating around in the top section with the dinky little DSSI terminator on a plate mounted at the top left. There is another ribbon cable that has male and female three row DB type connectors (DB68??) on it. Looks vaguely like one on my 6000's DMB32's Synchronous port. No idea what module it comes from yet. Presumably the DRQ. MS650-BA M7622-A 16Mb RAM (That's an easy one) KA640-AA M7624-CA Microvax 3300/3400 CPU with 4MB Ram Usual console MMJ port and switchable AUI/10Base2 ethernet. (Finally, a biggish Vax I don't need a txcvr for....) Seems intact except for the missing drives and the dress panel that covers the leds, TK50 etc. The sliding cover is still there but the one behind it on the bulkhead is missing. (Any spares out there?) I will be pulling the modules over the next few days for a clean and check. It's got ribbon cables coming out of the front between the gaps in the modules, pretty messy looking, one goes to one of those big centronics connectors on a mounting plate, that looks like a scsi connector. According to a good source, the machine (NODE::TITUS) was part of the JANUS war game network at DSTO. It seems mostly alive, a quick power up had the LED countdown going through ok, apart from stops due to lack of disk drives and no smoke or bad smells..... All I gotta do now is scare up some RFxx drives I guess..... Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia. Email: geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au ICQ #: 1970476 From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Dec 20 21:12:46 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: An odd request... Message-ID: <0.8305db8d.25904a2e@aol.com> In a message dated 12/20/99 9:19:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com writes: > I just had a kind of odd request. > > This one's for the Apple gurus on the list: Is it at all possible, through > hardware, software, or 'other,' to read 5.25" floppies written on an Apple > IIe on a PC? This is an all too common question and has been answered before. the only way to do it is to use one of those apple // emulation cards in a pc, such as a trackstar card. DB Young coming in 2000: my new site at www.nothingtodo.org ! --> this message printed on recycled disk space view the computers of yesteryear at http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm (now accepting donations!) From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Dec 20 21:33:02 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Now I've seen everything] Message-ID: <19991220213302.C1353@mrbill.net> Picked up a LQPX2-SW tonight; its a 2-port 25-pin serial A/B switchbox with the d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo on it, made out of shiny "burnished" stainless steel. I didnt know they even made their own switchboxes! Bill -- +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ |Bill Bradford | mrbill@pdp11.org | mrbill@mrbill.net | |http://www.sunhelp.org | http://www.pdp11.org | http://www.mrbill.net| +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ From jhfine at idirect.com Mon Dec 20 21:34:45 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Please help me clean out! References: <3.0.5.32.19991219161942.009552e0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> <199912210006.TAA12635@world.std.com> Message-ID: <385EF555.A713766C@idirect.com> >Megan wrote: > >... however, being in Toronto is impossible. > > Gee, Jerome, I'm sorry to hear it is so tough living up there... :-) > > I'm in the same boat, though... I wish I could get something shipped, > I would like one or more of the DSD drives... they are nice compact > units (which format 8" floppies) which go well with the 11/23s, 11/53s > and 11/73s in BA11-M boxes that I have... > > Ah well... If someone who *can* make it to pick anything up can grab > the DSDs and handle the shipping, I sure would appreciate it... (I > would, of course, pay for shipping) Jerome Fine replies: It sure is tough being on the East coast when so much of the stuff seems to become available on the West coast. We need to get together and run a truck back and forth once every other month to save all this good stuff. I am not sure where I would put it anymore. The word I am getting is that for every lb. I take in, two lb. must go out the door. Otherwise, the door is open for me to leave by as well. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 20 21:36:08 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Now I've seen everything] References: <19991220213302.C1353@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <99122022363402.12875@vault.neurotica.com> On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Bill Bradford wrote: >Picked up a LQPX2-SW tonight; its a 2-port 25-pin serial A/B switchbox >with the d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo on it, made out of shiny "burnished" stainless >steel. > >I didnt know they even made their own switchboxes! Oh yes, those sure are pretty boxes! -Dave McGuire From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Mon Dec 20 21:56:24 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - KC0CUE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: FSOT: AT&T 3B2 400 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991215211600.3c977684@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: Greetings, I had offered $50 plus shipping. I'm assuming this wasn' t the best offer. Out of curiosity, I'd like to know what it was for future reference. Thanks... Anthony Clifton > I have a pair of 3B2 400s that need to find a new home. I also have a >large stack of manuals for them. Located in central Florida. Best offer >plus shipping. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 20 22:11:40 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: An odd request... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991220181941.00929100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: > This one's for the Apple gurus on the list: Is it at all possible, >through >hardware, software, or 'other,' to read 5.25" floppies written on an Apple >IIe on a PC? This from our Teledisc contact person? (not like "I" know of course) Did anyone ever find out if the Central Point Deluxe Option board works with Teledisc software? (you know that software thing many of us grouped to buy a share of the 25 user licenses). From mikeford at socal.rr.com Mon Dec 20 22:13:49 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: An odd request... In-Reply-To: <19991221034007.23452.qmail@diablonet.dynip.com> Message-ID: >Unfortunently, I think it's impossible, as Apple disks used a totally >different recording format than PC disks do/did. AFAIK, the only >alternatives are an original Apple box or a Mac decked out with the >Apple 5.25" drive. Oddly enough the only 5.25 drive for a mac I know of only reads PC formats. From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Dec 20 22:20:45 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Now I've seen everything] In-Reply-To: <99122022363402.12875@vault.neurotica.com> References: <19991220213302.C1353@mrbill.net> <99122022363402.12875@vault.neurotica.com> Message-ID: <19991220222045.D1353@mrbill.net> On Mon, Dec 20, 1999 at 10:36:08PM -0500, Dave McGuire wrote: > On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Bill Bradford wrote: > >Picked up a LQPX2-SW tonight; its a 2-port 25-pin serial A/B switchbox > >with the d|i|g|i|t|a|l logo on it, made out of shiny "burnished" stainless > >steel. > >I didnt know they even made their own switchboxes! > Oh yes, those sure are pretty boxes! I think I'm gonna get out the Dremel tool and the polishing wheel tomorrow and see how bright-n-shiny this one can get (non-destructively, of course; its just got a couple of "dirty" spots that Windex wont handle..) 8-) Bill -- +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ |Bill Bradford | mrbill@pdp11.org | mrbill@mrbill.net | |http://www.sunhelp.org | http://www.pdp11.org | http://www.mrbill.net| +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 20 22:26:41 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 update Message-ID: <199912210426.XAA24955@world.std.com> John, You might be right and maybe the Mac will only read Apple II formatted 3.5" diskettes and I might have been thinking of hooking up a real Apple II 5.25" drive to an Apple IIe card in an LC or something.. Apologies for any inaccuracies :) -Sean Caron (root@diablonet.net) From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 20 22:31:19 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Now I've seen everything] Message-ID: <199912210431.XAA26983@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199912210500.dBL50br06115@admin.cgocable.net> > Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 23:31:19 -0500 (EST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Allison J Parent > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Now I've seen everything] > > > FYI: it's aluminum I have two. > Stainless steel even polished to high sheen still have it's light grey that most stainless steel has. Aluminum softer and galls "blackened marks" easily, won't hold sheen long unless clear-coated. Whitish in color on fresh cuts. Steel rusts, tend to be bit lighter grey and more duller if acid-etched to passivate it. Often looks yellowish tint on stamped items. In terms of machinablity I like aluminum especially with hand tools if mid-strengh requires this. But overall, I prefer brass for ease of machining by machine and gives clean cuts, doesn't galls as much and less prone to rust that steel suffers. Stainless steel is POOR in structual parts where there's active loads even light ones and wearablity is also not as good. OT: Remind me to tell that, not great idea to cook with potmetal/aluminum containing cookwares except copper is perfectly fine but not with acidic foods. That is where stainless steel comes in (poor cooking heat except thoses that has copper or aluminum bottom welded on. Also cast iron or ceramic erameled cookwares is fine for this. Wizard From Innfogra at aol.com Mon Dec 20 23:03:22 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Need information. Message-ID: <0.1bcab7c6.2590641a@aol.com> In a message dated 12/20/1999 3:49:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, netsurfer_x1@hotmail.com writes: > anufacturer: Computype, Inc. > Model: Compuedit > Year: 1981 (?) > It is the front end computer to a dedicated typesetter in the early 80s. Paxton From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Mon Dec 20 23:51:04 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 update In-Reply-To: <19991221012531.32342.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991220214839.01ba6df0@mcmanis.com> At 06:25 PM 12/20/99 -0700, someone wrote: >John, >Yes, the terminal is set up exactly the way the MicroVAX 3100 manual said >to set it up, 9600, 8-n-1, I believe.. I can hear the disk spin up. I can >hammer away on the keyboard all I want and the terminal never reads more >than that gibberish... This suggests that the clock circuit on the UART is scrod or that the RS-232 drivers have been damaged (can happen due to a spike). You're only choice is to hook up a scope and have a look at the pins to see what kind of signal is coming off the unit. Also check that the 3100 isn't wired for 220 and running off 110. --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Tue Dec 21 00:13:42 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Microvax 3400 In-Reply-To: <00cc01bf4b5e$6c0d8e60$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> References: <19991221004537.74866.qmail@hotmail.com> <19991220191621.A1353@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991220215404.01d4e210@mcmanis.com> At 01:22 PM 12/21/99 +1030, Geoff Roberts wrote: >Have acquired at auction for a mere $30AU (a real one not Ebay) a Microvax >3400 ex Defence Science and Technology Organisation at Salisbury. Its a nice little VAX, nicer still if you upgrade it... >Unfortunately it's missing its (DSSI) drives. I hate that. Security... >Seems to have the following bits in a biggish cube on casters. (BA213 I >think). Fortunately DSSI drives seem to be popping up a lot lately. I've seen several on Ebay and the local scrap yard had a bunch recently (RF30's so hardly worth it, but whatever) check the Austrialian DEC reseller near you. They may be willing to let one or two go for a "song." >TQK50 M7546-00 TK50 Controller >TK50 tape drive Interesting, mine came with a TK70. >KFQSA-SA M7769 Storage Adapter (DSSI Disk Interface) The 3400 has a DSSI interface on the CPU card, did you get another board as well? >It/they seems to have about 6 of the little Honda connectors. I'm unfamiliar with the term "honda" connector but the DSSI connector looks like a SCSI-2 high density connector with a couple of guide pins stuck up from it. >I think this might have multiple controllers or something similar. There >are 3 front >panels with the same lights and connectors anyway. Three disk control panels? That they should each have a little ID plug in them and the read/write/fault panel. >DRQ3B-SA M7658-PA 2 port parallel interface (If I'm looking at the right >bits, it has a couple of >connectors that look more like old type SCSI (Sorta oversized female >Centronics connectors?) >on the front panel. What in heck did these talk to? A line printer? Sweet! It talks to anything you want it to talk to. General purpose DMA driven parallel port (dual) >What was evidently the DSSI daisy chain cable is floating around in the top >section >with the dinky little DSSI terminator on a plate mounted at the top left. Inside the top of mine is space for three drives on the DEC side rails plus the TK70. THe DSSI cable connected to each of them. >There is another ribbon cable that has male and female three row DB type >connectors (DB68??) >on it. Looks vaguely like one on my 6000's DMB32's Synchronous port. No >idea what module >it comes from yet. Presumably the DRQ. Could be SDI connectors. >MS650-BA M7622-A 16Mb RAM (That's an easy one) > >KA640-AA M7624-CA Microvax 3300/3400 CPU with 4MB Ram >Usual console MMJ port and switchable AUI/10Base2 ethernet. >(Finally, a biggish Vax I don't need a txcvr for....) > >Seems intact except for the missing drives and the dress panel that covers >the leds, TK50 etc. >The sliding cover is still there but the one behind it on the bulkhead is >missing. (Any spares out there?) Well there is a "front" that sits over the front of the box and has a slide up translucent door that covers the tape drive area. Are you missing the metal frame that covers the disk bulkhead? >It seems mostly alive, a quick power up had the LED countdown going through >ok, apart from stops due to lack of >disk drives and no smoke or bad smells..... Well if it gets to number 3 then you can probably net boot it into a cluster or netbsd. (NetBSD doesn't support the on board DSSI yet though) --Chuck From swolfe1 at mail.gcnet.net Tue Dec 21 00:15:10 1999 From: swolfe1 at mail.gcnet.net (swolfe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: OT: Looking for VAXstation to play with References: <19991217045131.6982.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.1.16.19991217164256.20ffd7fe@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <004c01bf4b7a$bd0e7d80$586cc9d1@lothar> I'm lookinmf for a VAX station to play with. Anyone have one for sale? We have a VAX at the University, and I'de like to get going on it, considering I have access to lots of info on them... From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Dec 21 00:24:37 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: An odd request... In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19991220181941.00929100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991220222437.00928d70@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 20:11 20-12-1999 -0800, you wrote: >This from our Teledisc contact person? (not like "I" know of course) I never claimed to be an expert in older disk formats. I still have a lot to learn. >Did anyone ever find out if the Central Point Deluxe Option board works >with Teledisc software? (you know that software thing many of us grouped to >buy a share of the 25 user licenses). Teledisk would not help me in this case. I need to be able to read the floppies' file structure, and extract the files that are on it for translation to a more common format, not make an image of the floppies involved for archiving. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 21 00:45:23 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: An odd request... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Bob Stek wrote: > I beleive that you need a MatchPoint board from MicroSolutions to do that. > It was advertised to be able to read both NorthStar and Apple formatted > disks. I have never tried it with an Apple disk, though. I've never heard > of Zardax, but it's name is reminiscent of either a space invader-type game > or perhaps a laxative . Bob is correct about the MatchPoint card, which does a pretty good job on both formats. It is unfortunate that they chose to discontinue manufacture and development of that and other legacy computer support products. As to the Zardax word processor files, my top of the head estimate would be that it is possible to convert them over to a more current WP format. The question then becomes - is it practical? - don > Bob Stek > bobstek@ix.netcom.com > Saver of Lost SOLs (and N*'s, too) > > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Bruce Lane > Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 9:20 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: An odd request... > > > I just had a kind of odd request. > > This one's for the Apple gurus on the list: Is it at all possible, through > hardware, software, or 'other,' to read 5.25" floppies written on an Apple > IIe on a PC? > > Taking that one step further: Has anyone heard of the word processing > program 'Zardax,' and if so, do you know if it's possible to convert its > files to a more common format? > > Thanks in advance. > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies > http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com > Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 > "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our > own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." > > From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 21 00:52:42 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: An odd request... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > > This one's for the Apple gurus on the list: Is it at all possible, > >through > >hardware, software, or 'other,' to read 5.25" floppies written on an Apple > >IIe on a PC? > > This from our Teledisc contact person? (not like "I" know of course) > > Did anyone ever find out if the Central Point Deluxe Option board works > with Teledisc software? (you know that software thing many of us grouped to > buy a share of the 25 user licenses). I don't know that it would buy you much it TeleDisk can access the disk via the DOB, as the accompanying soft ware to the SOB will make an image file of the disk, which is what TeleDisk does. Neither will 'read' it. - don From jpl15 at netcom.com Tue Dec 21 01:14:24 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Floppy drives for uVAX II; TRW Swap Message-ID: Greetingz classiccmpistas.. I am in the market for a floppy drive for the MicroVax II... the machine I wish to add to has a TK50 and an RD54 (I think) and a Cipher 880 looking like a TS11. Even if there are aftermarket units existing, I would still like to get a DEC unit. I saw one on a nice uVax at one of the recent TRW swaps here in SoCal, but its custodian wanted $300 for the chassis and was rather offended when I suggested that he had got the decimal point shifted one decade to the right.. ;o Is anything other than the physical drive needed? Cards? Cables? Drivers? VouDou/Santeria rites?.. (and if so, a good source for live chickens in the LA area...?) AND>>>> The last, very last TRW Swap Meet of the 1900's will be held on Saturday, the 25th December, 1999, from 7:30am -> 11:00am PST. PLEASE NOTE: that the venue has shifted slightly, and not just due to PacRim plate tectonics. The previous lot has been sold, and the New Venue instructions follow.... From the 405 (San Diego) freeway, take the Rosecrans exit west. Travel west on Rosecrans approximately one mile to Aviation. Turn left (south) on Aviation [under the curved Metrolink train bridge] and proceed south on Aviation. Continue south another mile until you pass the intersection of Marine Avenue. Continue south past Marine, and the Swap Meet will be on your left. It is now in the SouthEast quadrant of the intersection of Aviation and Marine. PREVIOUSLY it was in the NorthWest quadrant. I have spaces G22 and G24. If you are in the nieghborhood, drop by and check it out. This coming Saturday most likely will not be the most populous, but then again... the hardcore swappers will be there, and Bah: Humbug!! to those with 'other' priorities. Cheers and Best of the Season HoHOhO From geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au Tue Dec 21 01:31:19 1999 From: geoffrob at stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au (Geoff Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Microvax 3400 References: <19991221004537.74866.qmail@hotmail.com> <19991220191621.A1353@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <000d01bf4b85$6073d240$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> ----- Original Message ----- From: Chuck McManis To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Tuesday, 21 December 1999 4:43 Subject: Re: Microvax 3400 > Its a nice little VAX, nicer still if you upgrade it... > > >Unfortunately it's missing its (DSSI) drives. I hate that. Security... > >Seems to have the following bits in a biggish cube on casters. (BA213 I > >think). > > Fortunately DSSI drives seem to be popping up a lot lately. I don't think I'll need them. The mysterious cards are in fact 2 x Emulex UC07 SCSI controllers. There is also another Emulex card a QT1410402, which I am informed is a Pertec tape controller. > several on Ebay and the local scrap yard had a bunch recently (RF30's so > hardly worth it, but whatever) check the Austrialian DEC reseller near you. DEC Adelaide is about 140 miles. I guess that's near enough. Only one in the state. > They may be willing to let one or two go for a "song." I'd REALLY like to see THAT.....;^) > > >TQK50 M7546-00 TK50 Controller > >TK50 tape drive > > Interesting, mine came with a TK70. Seems to depend when they were made I think. It's definitely a TQK50/TK50 combo, I've got TK70's in my Vax 6000's. > >KFQSA-SA M7769 Storage Adapter (DSSI Disk Interface) > > The 3400 has a DSSI interface on the CPU card, did you get another board as > well? Disregard. If it's in there, I haven't found it, and yes, what I take to be the DSSI cable seems to go to the KA640-AA > I'm unfamiliar with the term "honda" connector but the DSSI connector looks > like a SCSI-2 high density connector with a couple of guide pins stuck up > from it. That's the one on the end of the cable I took to be DSSI. The others are in fact the SCSI-2 style high density connectors. The UC07's have one each on the faceplate. > >DRQ3B-SA M7658-PA 2 port parallel interface (If I'm looking at the right > >bits, it has a couple of > >connectors that look more like old type SCSI (Sorta oversized female > >Centronics connectors?) > >on the front panel. What in heck did these talk to? A line printer? > Sweet! It talks to anything you want it to talk to. General purpose DMA > driven parallel port (dual) > Could be SDI connectors. ?? As in Storage Device Interface? Or do you mean something else? It's not SDI in that sense. Nothing like it. The cables come from a board with LEXIDATA on it. Hard to see numbers, the stuff in the etch is covered by one of the handles. It could be anything. > >the dress panel that covers the leds, TK50 etc. > >The sliding cover is still there but the one behind it on the bulkhead is > >missing. (Any spares out there?) > > Well there is a "front" that sits over the front of the box and has a slide > up translucent door that covers the tape drive area. That's there and intact >Are you missing the metal frame that covers the disk bulkhead? The metal frame is there, with the buttons and leds mounted on it, however, it appears it is missing a (presumably) plastic dress cover, that surrounds and covers the led/button area and the region around the TK50.. > >It seems mostly alive, a quick power up had the LED countdown going through > >ok, apart from stops due to lack of > >disk drives and no smoke or bad smells..... > > Well if it gets to number 3 then you can probably net boot it into a > cluster or netbsd. (NetBSD doesn't support the on board DSSI yet though) I have plenty of VMS and a couple of boxen for servers, we'll see. Cheers Geoff Roberts Computer Systems Manager Saint Mark's College Port Pirie, South Australia. Email: geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au netcafe@pirie.mtx.net.au ICQ #: 1970476 From marvin at rain.org Tue Dec 21 01:32:01 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Floppy drives for uVAX II; TRW Swap References: Message-ID: <385F2CF1.C59899BF@rain.org> John Lawson wrote: > > It is now in the SouthEast quadrant of the intersection of > Aviation and Marine. PREVIOUSLY it was in the NorthWest quadrant. I > have spaces G22 and G24. If you are in the nieghborhood, drop by > and check it out. This coming Saturday most likely will not be the > most populous, but then again... the hardcore swappers will be > there, and Bah: Humbug!! to those with 'other' priorities. Whew, I was worried there for a bit that I might be the only one showing up. I needn't have worried! From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 21 01:39:23 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Now I've seen everything] In-Reply-To: <199912210500.dBL50br06115@admin.cgocable.net> References: <199912210431.XAA26983@world.std.com> Message-ID: >Remind me to tell that, not great idea to cook with >potmetal/aluminum containing cookwares except copper is perfectly >fine but not with acidic foods. That is where stainless steel comes >in (poor cooking heat except thoses that has copper or aluminum >bottom welded on. Also cast iron or ceramic erameled cookwares is >fine for this. > >Wizard When it comes to pans I have two favorites, Tefal the aluminum with a teflon coating, and cast iron. One of my brothers treasured items is a cast iron skillet that is square and the perfect size for frying bacon. Its a classic just like some computers we know. ;) From mikeford at socal.rr.com Tue Dec 21 01:51:50 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Floppy drives for uVAX II; TRW Swap In-Reply-To: <385F2CF1.C59899BF@rain.org> References: Message-ID: >John Lawson wrote: >> >> It is now in the SouthEast quadrant of the intersection of >> Aviation and Marine. PREVIOUSLY it was in the NorthWest quadrant. I >> have spaces G22 and G24. If you are in the nieghborhood, drop by >> and check it out. This coming Saturday most likely will not be the >> most populous, but then again... the hardcore swappers will be >> there, and Bah: Humbug!! to those with 'other' priorities. > >Whew, I was worried there for a bit that I might be the only one showing up. >I needn't have worried! I think I may go and hand out lumps of coal... From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 21 01:44:53 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Microvax 3400 In-Reply-To: <00cc01bf4b5e$6c0d8e60$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> (geoffrob@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au) References: <19991221004537.74866.qmail@hotmail.com> <19991220191621.A1353@mrbill.net> <00cc01bf4b5e$6c0d8e60$de2c67cb@stmarks.pp.catholic.edu.au> Message-ID: <19991221074453.5072.qmail@brouhaha.com> "Geoff Roberts" wrote: > KFQSA-SA M7769 Storage Adapter (DSSI Disk Interface) > It/they seems to have about 6 of the little Honda connectors. I think this > might have multiple controllers or something similar. There are 3 front > panels with the same lights and connectors anyway. Strange! My M7769 has only one 50-pin Berg header (shrouded with ejector latches). > Unfortunately it's missing its (DSSI) drives. I hate that. Security... I didn't get any DSSI drives with mine either :-( From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 21 01:47:32 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Now I've seen everything] In-Reply-To: <19991220222045.D1353@mrbill.net> (message from Bill Bradford on Mon, 20 Dec 1999 22:20:45 -0600) References: <19991220213302.C1353@mrbill.net> <99122022363402.12875@vault.neurotica.com> <19991220222045.D1353@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <19991221074732.5091.qmail@brouhaha.com> Bill Bradford wrote: > I think I'm gonna get out the Dremel tool and the polishing wheel tomorrow > and see how bright-n-shiny this one can get (non-destructively, of course; > its just got a couple of "dirty" spots that Windex wont handle..) 8-) Oh no! If you refinish it you will ruin the antique collectible value. Then when you appear on one of those TV shows, they'll tell you that the box would have been worth 34 gazillion dollars, but after having refinished it, it's only worth $7. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Dec 21 07:25:11 1999 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: "DB9" Message-ID: <8025684E.004929B8.00@PTECHNOTES02.PowerTech.co.uk> >> The spacing between pins along a row is I think 0.1 inches. The spacing between > > You have some strange D connectors there (at least for Normal Density > ones). Try holding a piece of stripboard or an IC against one. The pins > do _not_ line up (just tried it). The D-pin spacing (normal DB25 is the > one I had to hand) is larger than 0.1". As is the row spacing, which > seems to be the same as the pin spacing in a row. I stand corrected. A slightly more accurate measurement gives pins within a row at 2.75+/-0.01 mm, between rows 3.00+/-0.10 mm (the latter more likely to be less than more). My mistake arose because the row of 13 pins on a DB25 measures almost exactly 1.3 inches, pin centre to pin centre. How could I do such a thing? There really is no excuse! Philip. ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses. Power Technology Centre, Ratcliffe-on-Soar, Nottingham, NG11 0EE, UK Tel: +44 (0)115 936 2000 http://www.powertech.co.uk ********************************************************************** From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue Dec 21 07:38:30 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Floppy drives for uVAX II; TRW Swap Message-ID: <991221083830.246005e0@trailing-edge.com> > Greetingz classiccmpistas.. I am in the market for a floppy drive >for the MicroVax II... the machine I wish to add to has a TK50 and >an RD54 (I think) and a Cipher 880 looking like a TS11. > > Even if there are aftermarket units existing, I would still like to >get a DEC unit. I saw one on a nice uVax at one of the recent TRW >swaps here in SoCal, but its custodian wanted $300 for the chassis >and was rather offended when I suggested that he had got the decimal >point shifted one decade to the right.. ;o You'll have to be more specific about what sort of floppy drive that you want to hook up. 8 inch? If so, RX01 or RX02? In this case you'll also need a RXV211 or clone controller in the Q-Bus backplane. 5.25 inch? If so, RX33 or RX50? In these cases you'll just attach to the existing RQDX3/breakout box. 3.5 inch? If so, you'll need a third-party Q-bus controller to run the drive, unless you get your hands on a prototype RQDX4 :-) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From jhfine at idirect.com Tue Dec 21 08:34:16 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Floppy drives for uVAX II References: Message-ID: <385F8FE8.F6010E28@idirect.com> >John Lawson wrote: > Greetingz classiccmpistas.. I am in the market for a floppy drive > for the MicroVax II... the machine I wish to add to has a TK50 and > an RD54 (I think) and a Cipher 880 looking like a TS11. > > Even if there are aftermarket units existing, I would still like to > get a DEC unit. I saw one on a nice uVax at one of the recent TRW > swaps here in SoCal, but its custodian wanted $300 for the chassis > and was rather offended when I suggested that he had got the decimal > point shifted one decade to the right.. ;o > > Is anything other than the physical drive needed? Cards? Cables? > Drivers? VouDou/Santeria rites?.. (and if so, a good source for live > chickens in the LA area...?) Jerome Fine replies: If your question about a floppy drive for the MicroVAX II is in respect of a 5 1/4" drive, then the RQDX3 will accept either an RX50 or an RX33 (either single or dual). You require only the usual 34 pin cable for either drive, except that the connections on the drive side are different for the RX33 as opposed to the RX50. This assumes that you really do have an RD54 in a BA123 box (you mention at least 3 drives and a BA23 box allows only two drives - opps, I just noticed that the 3rd drive is a tape drive - not sure how big that is). If it actually is a BA23, you can still hang the floppy drive outside the box and have the cables running into the I/O distribution panel inside. If you need additional help with the cables, let us know more about the hardware configuration. I have a few spare RX50 drives which I could send, but I presume you would be able to obtain locally. If you can't find an RX33, then I may be able to purchase one for you. I bought 2 * RX33 drives about 3 years ago and was rather annoyed about the lack of a box. So I took an old box from a bad RX50 drive and bolted both RX33 drives inside. The cables then stuck outside the box. I don't have the time this century to put another pair together, but next century, I could find some time. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From oliv555 at arrl.net Tue Dec 21 09:25:30 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: OT: Looking for VAXstation to play with References: <19991217045131.6982.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.1.16.19991217164256.20ffd7fe@mailhost.intellistar.net> <004c01bf4b7a$bd0e7d80$586cc9d1@lothar> Message-ID: <385F9BEA.F9666471@arrl.net> swolfe wrote: > I'm lookinmf for a VAX station to play with. Anyone have one for sale? We > have a VAX at the University, and I'de like to get going on it, considering > I have access to lots of info on them... I just picked up a model 60 to play with and was planning to list my m38 and m76 when I get back home in 2 weeks. If you haven't found something in that time give me a shout. Nick From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Tue Dec 21 09:50:03 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: FW: My oddball request Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991221075003.00943c60@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Attached is the E-mail I got from the fellow who needs those Apple IIe disks read. Given the situation (I don't have the hardware), and that he may be interested in joining our ranks (my assumption), I'm just going to forward his note here and let those who can help contact him directly. He'd probably be willing to pay at least a small fee, though I probably would have handled such a simple request at no charge if I'd had the MatchPoint stuff. Thanks much. -=-=- -=-=- From: Joe Nunnelley To: "'sales@bluefeathertech.com'" Subject: Request for a quote for data conversion Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1999 17:43:53 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2448.0) Hello, I would like to get a quote for converting data from an older format to either a hard copy or to a PC compatible ASCII format on disk. The Item: Two 5 1/4 inch floppy disks with text documents stored by an Apple II e computer (circa 1983). These text documents were created using a word processing software called "Zardax" (Zardax 6.0 to be more specific). I have the Zardax program and The Diskware DOS 3.3 from Apple (both on 5 1/4 inch floppies). I am searching for someone who has an Apple II e and who can move the data from the disk to another format (paper or PC formatted and ASCII text document.). Please let me know if this is something your organization would be able to do, and if so, how much it would cost. Regards, Joe Nunnelley -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ernestls at home.com Tue Dec 21 10:06:54 1999 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001bf4bcd$67495020$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> Hi Don. I may be able to get a copy of CP/M-80 but it won't be for my specific system. That's the problem. I don't have the OS for it. That's why I was curious about how difficult it would be to set up a generic copy of CP/M to run on it. I've never assembled (?) CP/M for a computer, but I've been reading a how to on doing it, and interested in giving it a shot. I'm not even sure of how to load/run the system monitor to ID the various address' but the thing is, as with anything, there's always a first time, and you have to start somewhere. -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Don Maslin Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 10:43 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > > > I have an Olympia Olytext 20 computer but I don't have the OS for it. It's a > > single board, Z-80 system, with a 3.5 inch FD. The manual said it used > > CP/M-80 but I haven't been able to find any other information on the system, > > or the OS. > > > No one that I've talked to knows anything about this PC, so I won't even > > hope that anyone here would have the OS but... I'm wondering if there is a > > way to make a new copy of the OS for this system? If I can find out the > > hardware addressing, etc., can CP/M 80 be made to run on it, and without a > > horrific amount of work? (I know, depends on what I consider a lot of > > work.)I don't mind tedious, if it's do-able. > > The Olys did run eiter CP/M-80 2.x or one of two different > propriatary OSes. I just have no Oly, so I can't supply > any disks. > > Sorry > H. > > -- > Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. > H.Achternbusch > If anyone turns up a copy/copies of the operating system and can provide it to me, perhaps I can be of help the next time! - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) Z-Node 9 - 858-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj/ visit the "Unofficial" CP/M Web site Mirrors at: http://www.mathcs.emory.edu/~cfs/cpm/ http://deltasoft.fife.wa.us/cpm http://cpm.interfun.net From arfonrg at texas.net Tue Dec 21 10:58:15 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: A trick (Was: Re: Please help me clean out!) In-Reply-To: <385EF555.A713766C@idirect.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19991219161942.009552e0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> <199912210006.TAA12635@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991221105815.00992ec0@207.207.0.212> When something comes available and I need it but the person says "pick-up only... No shipping", I offer to send them the boxes, packing material, pre-written address lables, a roll of tape and money to cover the cost of shipping. Then I offer to have UPS come to them to pick up the items. This has always worked for me. Of course this is impractical for large items like main-frames but, for 90% of what I collect/use, it works great. The cost of sending the boxes, packing material, and etc. is not that bad. You might want to note that I found that it costs less to have UPS come and pick up the packages from your house/office than to take them to a MailBoxes Etc. or other mailing operation. >> I'm in the same boat, though... I wish I could get something shipped, >> I would like one or more of the DSD drives... they are nice compact >> units (which format 8" floppies) which go well with the 11/23s, 11/53s >> and 11/73s in BA11-M boxes that I have... >> >> Ah well... If someone who *can* make it to pick anything up can grab >> the DSDs and handle the shipping, I sure would appreciate it... (I >> would, of course, pay for shipping) > >We need to get together and run a truck back and forth once every other >month to save all this good stuff. I am not sure where I would put it anymore. >The word I am getting is that for every lb. I take in, two lb. must go out the door. >Otherwise, the door is open for me to leave by as well. ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From swolfe1 at mail.gcnet.net Tue Dec 21 11:03:45 1999 From: swolfe1 at mail.gcnet.net (swolfe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: OT: Looking for VAXstation to play with References: <19991217045131.6982.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.1.16.19991217164256.20ffd7fe@mailhost.intellistar.net> <004c01bf4b7a$bd0e7d80$586cc9d1@lothar> <385F9BEA.F9666471@arrl.net> Message-ID: <002d01bf4bd5$5886a6c0$246cc9d1@lothar> Ok... what in a price range are you looking for? ----- Original Message ----- From: Nick Oliviero To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 10:25 AM Subject: Re: OT: Looking for VAXstation to play with > > > swolfe wrote: > > > I'm lookinmf for a VAX station to play with. Anyone have one for sale? We > > have a VAX at the University, and I'de like to get going on it, considering > > I have access to lots of info on them... > > I just picked up a model 60 to play with and was planning to list my m38 and > m76 when I get back home in 2 weeks. If you haven't found something in that > time give me a shout. > > Nick > > From aek at spies.com Tue Dec 21 11:37:07 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: An odd request... Message-ID: <199912211737.JAA12473@spies.com> "Oddly enough the only 5.25 drive for a mac I know of only reads PC formats. correct. it used a nubus card with a 756 controller on it to allow people to read DOS discs on nubus macs. the AII compatibility card for LC's allowed for external discs, though, but from memory I don't recall any way to use it as a disc controller on the mac side. From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 21 11:44:51 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Floppy drives for uVAX II In-Reply-To: <385F8FE8.F6010E28@idirect.com> References: Message-ID: Jerome Fine replies: > >If your question about a floppy drive for the MicroVAX II is in respect >of a 5 1/4" drive, then the RQDX3 will accept either an RX50 or an >RX33 (either single or dual). You require only the usual 34 pin cable >for either drive, except that the connections on the drive side are different >for the RX33 as opposed to the RX50. This assumes that you really do Doesn't the RX33 require a higher rev. of the RQDX3 than is normally available? ISTR, that I've got a whole pile of RQDX3's, but only one of which is capable of driving a RX33. OTOH, Tim's comment about the 3rd Party controller I suspect just did me a big favor with the MV3 that I'm currently working on. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From elvey at hal.com Tue Dec 21 12:17:29 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. In-Reply-To: <000001bf4bcd$67495020$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> Message-ID: <199912211817.KAA27476@civic.hal.com> "Ernest" wrote: > Hi Don. I may be able to get a copy of CP/M-80 but it won't be for my > specific system. That's the problem. I don't have the OS for it. That's why > I was curious about how difficult it would be to set up a generic copy of > CP/M to run on it. I've never assembled (?) CP/M for a computer, but I've > been reading a how to on doing it, and interested in giving it a shot. I'm > not even sure of how to load/run the system monitor to ID the various > address' but the thing is, as with anything, there's always a first time, > and you have to start somewhere. > Hi Ernest Most of CP/M is generic but the part called BDOS has to be specifically written to work on your computer. This part contains both the disk, printer, punch and serial I/O. The most important are the disk and serial. Usually the serial is easy because there were only a limited number of serial chips used. You don't have to make the serial interrupt driven. It is easier to make it a simple polled system at first. I've left mine as a polled system because I see no need to setup serial when I'm the only user. The disk I/O is a little more difficult. You'll need to know how the disk interface works. Most of the newer disk interfaces use one of the Western Digital series of chips. The reading and writing of sectors is relatively easy. You'll still need to have some understanding of disk formats and how the sectors are addressed. If you can find examples of code for the interfaces you have, 95% of the battle is won. You'll need a way of getting the code into the memory and then to the disk of your machine or someone else with a running machine can create the disk. The IMSAIs have the advantage that they have front panel switches. The machine may have a ROM based monitor that can be handy. If not, you'll need another machine to help boot strap your machine. The other machine doesn't need to be the same type, it only needs to be able to write the same disk format. I brought an old IMSAI back to life by doing a BDOS for it. It had an AY-3-1015 serial chip that was typical of the older machines. These are generally easy to work with since there is no software initialization ( other than clearing power up trash ) that needs to be done. The 8251 and 8250 type parts require initialization but they are also more versatile. The disk interface, on my machine, was an early TTL interface that had DMA to the machines memory. This took me quite a while to figure out and it wasn't until I found a schematic that I was able to figure it out ( it also was broken ). Luckily for you, most of the newer interfaces use standard chips and are easier to deal with. In many cases, you can make progress without schematics and only the chip manufactures spec sheet. It is also possible that many of the functions you need are already in ROMs on your machine. Dwight From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Tue Dec 21 12:18:36 1999 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Vintage Computers IBM 5155 Portable (fwd) Message-ID: Can anyone help this lady out? Please reply to: CABOCEAN@aol.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 19:18:51 EST From: CABOCEAN@aol.com Subject: Vintage Computers IBM 5155 Portable Hello, I am seeking software/hardware and a manual for this computer. I gave the computer to my Dad with the accompanying Smith Corona Typewriter and he is having a great time with it? Help, guidance and suggestions would be appreciated. Thank You, Claire Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF East? VCF Europe!? YOU BETCHA!! Stay tuned for more information or contact me to find out how you can participate http://www.vintage.org From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue Dec 21 12:19:00 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Floppy drives for uVAX II Message-ID: <991221131900.24600644@trailing-edge.com> >Doesn't the RX33 require a higher rev. of the RQDX3 than is normally >available? ISTR, that I've got a whole pile of RQDX3's, but only one of >which is capable of driving a RX33. It depends on what value of "normal" you have :-). Only the very oldest RQDX3's won't drive a RX33, but for some reason these tend to be very common in collections of scrounged RQDX3's! >OTOH, Tim's comment about the 3rd Party controller I suspect just did me a >big favor with the MV3 that I'm currently working on. Hmm - I think that instead of attributing that to my profound insight, it should instead get chalked up to dumb luck, because I don't have the slightest idea what favor I just did for you :-) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Tue Dec 21 12:22:02 1999 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: work slate wk100 (fwd) Message-ID: Can someone help this guy out? Please reply to: RABIHfromPA1924@webtv.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sun, 19 Dec 1999 21:56:08 -0500 (EST) From: Rabih Albaki To: vending@siconic.com Subject: work slate wk100 If it is possible, Iam looking for the peripheral 8 pin modular plug to buy for that unit at any cost to me. Iam looking foreward to hearing from you. Thak you sincerely. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF East? VCF Europe!? YOU BETCHA!! Stay tuned for more information or contact me to find out how you can participate http://www.vintage.org From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Dec 21 12:35:18 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: A trick (Was: Re: Please help me clean out!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991221105815.00992ec0@207.207.0.212> References: <385EF555.A713766C@idirect.com> <3.0.5.32.19991219161942.009552e0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991221123518.01076b30@pc> At 10:58 AM 12/21/99 -0600, Arfon Gryffydd wrote: >When something comes available and I need it but the person says "pick-up >only... No shipping", I offer to send them the boxes, packing material, >pre-written address lables, a roll of tape and money to cover the cost of >shipping. Then I offer to have UPS come to them to pick up the items. >This has always worked for me. >You might want to note that I found that it costs less to have UPS come and >pick up the packages from your house/office than to take them to a >MailBoxes Etc. or other mailing operation. The magic words are "call tag". This is UPS's term for that sort of pick-up at someone's house. I believe they intended it for use in the return of previously-shipped items. They've grumbled about it once or twice for me when I had to track a package that had been shipped that way. You don't get the ordinary GroundTrac or other shipping number for the package, so they're a little harder to track. I wish I had a dime for every time someone's posted a message to this list regarding a rescue or a pile of items in their garage, and they've neglected to include the location. Then I'd give all the dimes to the people who claim to have a pile of stuff in their garage along with a strong desire to see it reach a good home, but with no desire to find boxes to send the items to people who like to arrange call tags. - John From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Dec 21 13:11:23 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Floppy drives for uVAX II; TRW Swap In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, John Lawson wrote: > Greetingz classiccmpistas.. I am in the market for a floppy drive > for the MicroVax II... the machine I wish to add to has a TK50 and > an RD54 (I think) and a Cipher 880 looking like a TS11. Ah, RX50 is the standard floppy for that and one should be easily found. Note it's one of those odd dual 5.25 jobs and it's the exact same one used in DECmates, Rainbows and PROs. Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 21 12:39:51 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Who invented the first "clamshell" laptop? In-Reply-To: <19991221003637.46819.qmail@hotmail.com> from "David Vohs" at Dec 21, 99 00:36:37 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 326 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991221/6784cff0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 21 12:49:31 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Indus GT problem. In-Reply-To: <19991221004055.52560.qmail@hotmail.com> from "David Vohs" at Dec 21, 99 00:40:55 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1773 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991221/06d3c86c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 21 12:51:21 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3100 update In-Reply-To: <19991221012531.32342.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Will Jennings" at Dec 20, 99 06:25:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 631 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991221/151b1925/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 21 12:56:16 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: An odd request... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991220181941.00929100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> from "Bruce Lane" at Dec 20, 99 06:19:41 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1012 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991221/90ec26a8/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 21 13:35:14 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: Vintage Computers IBM 5155 Portable (fwd) In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 21, 99 10:18:36 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1722 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991221/f4ff873c/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Dec 21 13:56:53 1999 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: IBM 360/370 emulation? Message-ID: <13509284637.15.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Anyone know where I can get my hands on an emulator of an IBM 360/370? Always wanted to meet one, and I'm curious. (Taking a shortish rest from working on the '10. I'm into paging and such now and it's giving me fits.) Failing that, anyone know where to get documentation so I can hack one up after I'm done fighting with E10? Altavista search turns up junk matches (resumes and such) and a couple emulators that have disappeared. ------- From mew_jac at swbell.net Tue Dec 21 14:35:21 1999 From: mew_jac at swbell.net (Mitch Wright) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:23 2005 Subject: IBM 360/370 emulation? References: <13509284637.15.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <385FE489.704C@swbell.net> http://www.snipix.freeserve.co.uk/hercules.htm --m Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > Anyone know where I can get my hands on an emulator of an IBM 360/370? > Always wanted to meet one, and I'm curious. (Taking a shortish rest from > working on the '10. I'm into paging and such now and it's giving me fits.) > > Failing that, anyone know where to get documentation so I can hack one up > after I'm done fighting with E10? > > Altavista search turns up junk matches (resumes and such) and a couple > emulators that have disappeared. > ------- From pat at transarc.ibm.com Tue Dec 21 14:24:06 1999 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: IBM 360/370 emulation? In-Reply-To: <13509284637.15.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Anyone know where I can get my hands on an emulator of an IBM 360/370? > Always wanted to meet one, and I'm curious. (Taking a shortish rest from > working on the '10. I'm into paging and such now and it's giving me fits.) > > Failing that, anyone know where to get documentation so I can hack one up > after I'm done fighting with E10? > > Altavista search turns up junk matches (resumes and such) and a couple > emulators that have disappeared. Try http://www.snipix.freeserve.co.uk/hercules.htm for an in-progress 370/390 emulator. You can also download a 3330 DASD image ("DASD" = IBM's term for hard disk - "Direct Access Storage Device") containing a mimimal OS/360 MFT installation from the FAQ page there. Documentation? You want documentation? We got documentation. Manual Part # Price ------ ------ ----- S/360 Principles of Operation GA22-6821-08 $ 8.40 S/370 Principles of Operation GA22-7000-10 $11.25 370/XA Principles of Operation SA22-7085-01 $33.50 ESA/370 Principles of Operation SA22-7200-00 $41.00 ESA/390 Principles of Operation SA22-7201-06 $14.75 ESA/390 Common I/O-Device Commands SA22-7204-02 $ 3.85 ESA/390 Princ. Oper. binder inserts SA22-7205-00 $ 9.55 Generic 8 1/2 x 11 binder for above SX80-0258-00 $11.00 All available from IBM Manuals and Publications, 800-879-2755. Disclaimer: The prices are what I just looked up as external selling prices in one of our databases; you'll need to verify pricing and availability with the folks at the 800 number for the final word.... I just ordered the S/360 Principles of Operation for myself, and can verify that it is still available. --Pat. From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue Dec 21 14:45:49 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: PDP-10 Software Archive now on-line Message-ID: <991221154549.24600664@trailing-edge.com> I'm pleased to announce that I've finally organized the PDP-10 related material in my posession and put it on-line. At http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/ you will find several hundred megabytes of TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 tape images (largely from Megan Gentry's efforts at rescuing several KS10's in Cambridge earlier this year), individual files extracted from those tapes, and several hundred megabytes of DECUS TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 freeware. You will also find, interspersed among the contents of that page, numerous plugs for me and my capabilities to archive digital media for the future, and my absolute dedication to exact tape images. The TOPS-10 and TOPS-20 material is provided to aid those folks who have accepted the terms of the 36-bit Hobbyist license in fulfilling their responsibilities as outlined in section 3.1 of that agreement. Please see the full text of the license at the above URL. I'm open to comments, suggestions, criticism, etc., on the layout of the archives and how they are presented over the web. Fire away! And if anyone has any material to add to the archives, I'm willing to do whatever it takes to preserve this software. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Dec 21 15:08:52 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: PDP-10 Software Archive now on-line Message-ID: <19991221210852.29999.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> --- CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > I'm pleased to announce that I've finally organized the PDP-10 > related material in my posession and put it on-line. At > > http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/ Cool. Thanks. > I'm open to comments, suggestions, criticism, etc., on the layout > of the archives and how they are presented over the web. Fire away! > And if anyone has any material to add to the archives, I'm willing > to do whatever it takes to preserve this software. Suppose I have this account on an XKL-10. Now suppose I want to transfer some freeware off of it. How do I preserve the 36-bitness with ftp? Do I just use binary mode for executables and TENEX mode for text? I only ever got to dabble with the DEC-20 at OSU before it was gone. I was never a whiz with it. Perhaps there's a FAQ for TOPS out there? -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From enrico.badella at softstar.it Tue Dec 21 15:32:49 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: IBM 360/370 emulation? References: <13509284637.15.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <385FF201.3CD05361@softstar.it> "Daniel A. Seagraves" wrote: > > Anyone know where I can get my hands on an emulator of an IBM 360/370? > Always wanted to meet one, and I'm curious. (Taking a shortish rest from > working on the '10. I'm into paging and such now and it's giving me fits.) If you can wait until the end of january (hopefully) you will be able to use the real machine. As some of you probably know I have acquired a complete 4381 and am working to put it back on-line accessible from internet e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From daleapple at jps.net Tue Dec 21 15:49:41 1999 From: daleapple at jps.net (Dale F Applegate) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: An odd request... Message-ID: <004b01bf4bfd$6061e260$691b77d8@apples.rsvlonline.net> I am trying to unsuscribe to your classiccmp. How do I do that? Thanks, Dale Applegate -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 11:42 AM Subject: Re: An odd request... >> >> I just had a kind of odd request. >> >> This one's for the Apple gurus on the list: Is it at all possible, through >> hardware, software, or 'other,' to read 5.25" floppies written on an Apple >> IIe on a PC? > >Yes, it's possible, because all things are possible :-) >But it's not easy. The PC disk controller is physcially incapable of >reading the GCR encoding on an Apple ][ disk. So you _can't_ simply use >software to read the disks. > >There are/were accessory controller boards for the PC that connected >between the normal controller and the floppy drive. These controllers >could then handle the Apple GCR data. There were also Apple ][ emulator >cards for the PC (basically a complete Apple ][ on an ISA card) that did >the same sort of thing. No idea where you'd find these (for sale -- >people on this list have them but are hanging on to them) these days. > >You could always use an Apple ][ + its native disk controller and link it >to a PC using either a serial (easier) or parallel link. > >-tony > > From daleapple at jps.net Tue Dec 21 15:53:20 1999 From: daleapple at jps.net (Dale F Applegate) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. Message-ID: <005101bf4bfd$e14d1e80$691b77d8@apples.rsvlonline.net> -----Original Message----- From: Dwight Elvey To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, December 21, 1999 11:13 AM Subject: RE: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. >"Ernest" wrote: >> Hi Don. I may be able to get a copy of CP/M-80 but it won't be for my >> specific system. That's the problem. I don't have the OS for it. That's why >> I was curious about how difficult it would be to set up a generic copy of >> CP/M to run on it. I've never assembled (?) CP/M for a computer, but I've >> been reading a how to on doing it, and interested in giving it a shot. I'm >> not even sure of how to load/run the system monitor to ID the various >> address' but the thing is, as with anything, there's always a first time, >> and you have to start somewhere. >> > >Hi Ernest > Most of CP/M is generic but the part called BDOS has to >be specifically written to work on your computer. This >part contains both the disk, printer, punch and serial I/O. >The most important are the disk and serial. Usually the >serial is easy because there were only a limited number >of serial chips used. You don't have to make the serial >interrupt driven. It is easier to make it a simple polled >system at first. I've left mine as a polled system because >I see no need to setup serial when I'm the only user. > The disk I/O is a little more difficult. You'll need >to know how the disk interface works. Most of the newer >disk interfaces use one of the Western Digital series >of chips. The reading and writing of sectors is relatively >easy. You'll still need to have some understanding of >disk formats and how the sectors are addressed. > If you can find examples of code for the interfaces you >have, 95% of the battle is won. You'll need a way of getting >the code into the memory and then to the disk of your machine >or someone else with a running machine can create the >disk. The IMSAIs have the advantage that they have front >panel switches. The machine may have a ROM based monitor >that can be handy. If not, you'll need another machine >to help boot strap your machine. The other machine doesn't >need to be the same type, it only needs to be able to >write the same disk format. > I brought an old IMSAI back to life by doing a BDOS for >it. It had an AY-3-1015 serial chip that was typical >of the older machines. These are generally easy to work >with since there is no software initialization ( other >than clearing power up trash ) that needs to be done. >The 8251 and 8250 type parts require initialization >but they are also more versatile. The disk interface, on >my machine, was an early TTL interface that had DMA to the >machines memory. This took me quite a while to figure out >and it wasn't until I found a schematic that I was able to >figure it out ( it also was broken ). Luckily for you, most >of the newer interfaces use standard chips and are easier to >deal with. In many cases, you can make progress without >schematics and only the chip manufactures spec sheet. > It is also possible that many of the functions you need >are already in ROMs on your machine. >Dwight > > From mbg at world.std.com Tue Dec 21 16:49:57 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: A trick (Was: Re: Please help me clean out!) References: <3.0.5.32.19991219161942.009552e0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> <199912210006.TAA12635@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199912212249.RAA18010@world.std.com> >When something comes available and I need it but the person says "pick-up >only... No shipping", I offer to send them the boxes, packing material, >pre-written address lables, a roll of tape and money to cover the cost of >shipping. Then I offer to have UPS come to them to pick up the items. >This has always worked for me. I like that idea... my only problem is actually doing that in the 'copious free time' :-) that I have, what with my commute to/from DEQ as well as the college classes I've been taking... I may just give it a try, though... Thanks for the tip.. Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Dec 21 18:48:12 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: A trick (Was: Re: Please help me clean out!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991221105815.00992ec0@207.207.0.212> References: <385EF555.A713766C@idirect.com> <3.0.5.32.19991219161942.009552e0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991221184812.3027a00c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:58 AM 12/21/99 -0600, you wrote: >When something comes available and I need it but the person says "pick-up >only... No shipping", I offer to send them the boxes, packing material, >pre-written address lables, a roll of tape and money to cover the cost of >shipping. Then I offer to have UPS come to them to pick up the items. >This has always worked for me. > >Of course this is impractical for large items like main-frames but, for 90% >of what I collect/use, it works great. The cost of sending the boxes, >packing material, and etc. is not that bad. > >You might want to note that I found that it costs less to have UPS come and >pick up the packages from your house/office than to take them to a >MailBoxes Etc. or other mailing operation. I NEVER use Mailboxs Etc. I found that their rate is almost exactly double UPS's. What's interesting is that they ship via UPS so you're paying double for the priveledge of dropping the package there. Also FWIW UPS owns 40% of MBE. Also I've found that boxs from MBE cost more than twice as much as buying them from U-Haul. I call UPS and have them make a one time pickup. They say that it costs $5 extra but I've compared the cost of that and taking it to their drop off counter and it's almost always cheaper to have them come get it. No idea why unless there's some hidden charges involved in dropping it off. Joe From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 21 16:46:40 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: IBM 360/370 emulation? In-Reply-To: <13509284637.15.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <13509284637.15.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <19991221224640.10043.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Failing that, anyone know where to get documentation so I can hack one up > after I'm done fighting with E10? IBM will still sell you (and relatively cheaply) the Principles of Operation documents for the 360, 370, 370/XA, ESA 370, and 390. IBM has a web site for ordering documentation, but it's just about impossible to find (i.e., a search from www.ibm.com does not find it), and unfortunately I don't seem to have the URL. I ordered some manuals from them about two months ago, including the 360 Principles of Operation, the 360/30 Functional Characteristics, and the 360/67 Functional Characteristics. Unfortunately they obsoleted the majority of the 360 manuals about 18 months ago. There are still some 370 manuals available. From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 21 16:49:51 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: A trick (Was: Re: Please help me clean out!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991221184812.3027a00c@mailhost.intellistar.net> (message from Joe on Tue, 21 Dec 1999 18:48:12) References: <385EF555.A713766C@idirect.com> <3.0.5.32.19991219161942.009552e0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> <3.0.1.16.19991221184812.3027a00c@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: <19991221224951.10085.qmail@brouhaha.com> Joe wrote: > I NEVER use Mailboxs Etc. I found that their rate is almost exactly > double UPS's. What's interesting is that they ship via UPS so you're > paying double for the priveledge of dropping the package there. Also FWIW > UPS owns 40% of MBE. Also I've found that boxs from MBE cost more than > twice as much as buying them from U-Haul. Agreed. I have a box at MBE to receive mail, for which privilege I pay $45/month (I wanted a box large enough to hold small packages, and magazines and large envelopes without folding). But when I need to ship things, I go to the local Fedex station. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 21 17:24:33 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Who invented the first "clamshell" laptop? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > Who (by company, that is) invented the first "clamshell" laptop? I am > I'd go for the Tandy 200. Probably made for them by the company that made > the Model 100, the Olivetti M10, etc (and who I forget the name of at the > moment :-(). That company is Kyoto Ceramics Corp, AKA Kyocera From rcini at msn.com Tue Dec 21 17:51:19 1999 From: rcini at msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Looking for...MSDOS OEM Adaptation Kit Message-ID: <001a01bf4c0e$74e3c300$01c8a8c0@office1> Well, another bee in my bonnet... I'm experienting with an x86-based hobby robotics controller, but I'd like to graft certain functionality onto old MSDOS (don't ask why), including a ROM monitor, etc. I remember that MS carried a special version of MSDOS for people who need to modify the code for specific hardware. Certain portions of DOS are provided as source and the rest as object code. Does anyone have a copy of this? Rich [ Rich Cini/WUGNET [ ClubWin!/CW1 [ MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking [ Collector of "classic" computers [ http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/~rcini/classiccmp/ <---------------------------- reply separator From eric at brouhaha.com Tue Dec 21 17:33:14 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Looking for...MSDOS OEM Adaptation Kit In-Reply-To: <001a01bf4c0e$74e3c300$01c8a8c0@office1> (rcini@msn.com) References: <001a01bf4c0e$74e3c300$01c8a8c0@office1> Message-ID: <19991221233314.10450.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I remember that MS carried a special version of MSDOS for people who need to > modify the code for specific hardware. Certain portions of DOS are provided > as source and the rest as object code. > > Does anyone have a copy of this? No, but I think you can get such stuff from Annasoft (a spinoff of Annabooks). I think Micros~1 licensed them to sell the embedded versions of DOS, Windows, etc. http://www.annasoft.com/ From lance at costanzo.net Tue Dec 21 18:04:49 1999 From: lance at costanzo.net (Lance Costanzo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: IBM 360/370 emulation? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19991221160443.00a35b88@costanzo.net> At 10:46 PM 12/21/1999 -0000, you wrote: >I ordered some manuals >from them about two months ago, including the 360 Principles of Operation, >the 360/30 Functional Characteristics, and the 360/67 Functional >Characteristics. I remember reading the 360 manuals 25 years ago. Are the manuals you recently received still in that lovely line printer + ASCII graphics motif? Lance. Lance Costanzo http://www.webhighrise.com System Administrator Website and Virtual Domain Hosting lance@costanzo.net starting at $5/month, no setup fees From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Dec 21 19:30:39 1999 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Who invented the first "clamshell" laptop? Message-ID: <3.0.16.19991221170638.55673508@pop.ricochet.net> At 12:36 AM 12/21/99 GMT, you wrote: >Who (by company, that is) invented the first "clamshell" laptop? I am >tempted to believe it is either GRiD or Zenith Data Systems that introduced >this style, but if I had to, I'd lay my money on GRiD. Take the money and run. GRiD Compass: 1982 (Sometime in the fall) Sharp PC-5000: 1983 (March) Gavilan: 1983 (March or April) TRS-80 m100: 1983 TRS-80 m200: 1985? I don't know what Zenith's first clamshell was, but I'm pretty sure it was much later on. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From jim at calico.litterbox.com Tue Dec 21 19:29:29 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Who invented the first "clamshell" laptop? In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19991221170638.55673508@pop.ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Dec 21, 1999 05:30:39 PM Message-ID: <199912220129.SAA01794@calico.litterbox.com> I would have said Apple, with the LCD screen that went on the Apple 2 C. But I think that was after 1982. > > At 12:36 AM 12/21/99 GMT, you wrote: > >Who (by company, that is) invented the first "clamshell" laptop? I am > >tempted to believe it is either GRiD or Zenith Data Systems that introduced > >this style, but if I had to, I'd lay my money on GRiD. > > Take the money and run. > > GRiD Compass: 1982 (Sometime in the fall) > Sharp PC-5000: 1983 (March) > Gavilan: 1983 (March or April) > TRS-80 m100: 1983 > TRS-80 m200: 1985? > > I don't know what Zenith's first clamshell was, but I'm pretty sure it was > much later on. > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Dec 21 20:43:08 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Who invented the first "clamshell" laptop? Message-ID: <0.752c650a.259194bc@aol.com> well, the lcd screen for the //c only sits on top of the computer and does not fold down and is not integral with the rest of the computer so it really doesnt apply. I think the time zone was 1984 or thereabouts. In a message dated 12/21/99 8:30:06 PM Eastern Standard Time, jim@calico.litterbox.com writes: > I would have said Apple, with the LCD screen that went on the Apple 2 C. > But I think that was after 1982. > > > > > At 12:36 AM 12/21/99 GMT, you wrote: > > >Who (by company, that is) invented the first "clamshell" laptop? I am > > >tempted to believe it is either GRiD or Zenith Data Systems that > introduced > > >this style, but if I had to, I'd lay my money on GRiD. > > > > Take the money and run. > > > > GRiD Compass: 1982 (Sometime in the fall) > > Sharp PC-5000: 1983 (March) > > Gavilan: 1983 (March or April) > > TRS-80 m100: 1983 > > TRS-80 m200: 1985? > > > > I don't know what Zenith's first clamshell was, but I'm pretty sure it was > > much later on. > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > > roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." > > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > > San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > > > > -- > Jim Strickland > jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > BeOS Powered! DB Young coming in 2000: my new site at www.nothingtodo.org ! --> this message printed on recycled disk space view the computers of yesteryear at http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm (now accepting donations!) From wsmith at gj.com Tue Dec 21 20:59:06 1999 From: wsmith at gj.com (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: A trick (Was: Re: Please help me clean out!) Message-ID: >I call UPS and have them make a one time pickup. They say that it costs >$5 extra but I've compared the cost of that and taking it to their drop off >counter and it's almost always cheaper to have them come get it. No idea >why unless there's some hidden charges involved in dropping it off. The UPS ship rate is higher at the counter than it is for pick-up. It costs $4-5 more to ship a 50 lb. package cross country from the counter than it does for a pick-up. That about offsets the pick-up fee. Isn't as favorable for lighter packages, obviously. -W From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Dec 21 21:15:35 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Where to get an IBM-based Apple Card In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19991220181941.00929100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991221221535.00981350@mail.30below.com> On or about 06:56 PM 12/21/99 +0000, Tony Duell was caught in a dark alley speaking these words: >There were also Apple ][ emulator >cards for the PC (basically a complete Apple ][ on an ISA card) that did >the same sort of thing. No idea where you'd find these (for sale -- >people on this list have them but are hanging on to them) these days. Try here: www.ahhz.com and click on their computers link... but be warned -- when they used to sell them for $20, now they want $79USD, IIRC. BTW, this particular card is called a "Diamond Trackstar E" and works like an Apple //e. Also, IIRC they do sell a lot of stuff (or at least they used to) on www.haggle.com - kinda like an Ebay without the crowd, or as much stuff. Sometimes you can get pretty good deals there, because it's a lot more off the beaten path. Hope this helps, Roger "Merch" Merchberger ===== Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- zmerch@30below.com SysAdmin - Iceberg Computers ===== Merch's Wild Wisdom of the Moment: ===== Sometimes you know, you just don't know sometimes, you know? From zmerch at 30below.com Tue Dec 21 21:24:14 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Who invented the first "clamshell" laptop? In-Reply-To: <199912220129.SAA01794@calico.litterbox.com> References: <3.0.16.19991221170638.55673508@pop.ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991221222414.00a40c90@mail.30below.com> On or about 06:29 PM 12/21/99 -0700, Jim Strickland was caught in a dark alley speaking these words: >I would have said Apple, with the LCD screen that went on the Apple 2 C. >But I think that was after 1982. The thought of having the Apple //c with that LCD thingy all on my lap gives me leg cramps just thinking about it... :-) I don't think //c's are considered laptops and IIRC they weren't connected, anyway. >> TRS-80 m200: 1985? There may have been some made in 1984, but all that I've seen were created in Jan/Feb 1985, according to the serial numbers, FWIW. >> I don't know what Zenith's first clamshell was, but I'm pretty sure it was >> much later on. It could have been the OEM'd Tandy 600 - the earliest one I've seen was made in Sep. 1985. >> Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >> roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Boy-oh-boy... I haven't heard from you in a while! Glad to see you're back! Hope life's been treating you well! Happy Holidaze, Roger "Merch" Merchberger ===== Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- zmerch@30below.com SysAdmin - Iceberg Computers ===== Merch's Wild Wisdom of the Moment: ===== Sometimes you know, you just don't know sometimes, you know? From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Tue Dec 21 21:16:44 1999 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: IBM 360/370 emulation? In-Reply-To: <385FF201.3CD05361@softstar.it> Message-ID: <13509364710.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Gonna have a real 360] Cool! Can you explain to me then how to IPL OS/360? I have it, and the emulator, but no idea how to make it go. ^_^ ------- From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 21 22:38:36 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. In-Reply-To: <000001bf4bcd$67495020$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Ernest wrote: > Hi Don. I may be able to get a copy of CP/M-80 but it won't be for my > specific system. That's the problem. I don't have the OS for it. That's why > I was curious about how difficult it would be to set up a generic copy of > CP/M to run on it. I've never assembled (?) CP/M for a computer, but I've > been reading a how to on doing it, and interested in giving it a shot. I'm > not even sure of how to load/run the system monitor to ID the various > address' but the thing is, as with anything, there's always a first time, > and you have to start somewhere. Ernest, I am probably the wrong guy to pose that question to, as i have never done it. However, there are countless who have. The ease or difficulty, I suspect, rests on how readily information is available on the internal addresses and I/O components. - don > -----Original Message----- > From: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > [mailto:CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu]On Behalf Of Don Maslin > Sent: Monday, December 20, 1999 10:43 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. > > > > > On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Hans Franke wrote: > > > > > > I have an Olympia Olytext 20 computer but I don't have the OS for it. > It's a > > > single board, Z-80 system, with a 3.5 inch FD. The manual said it used > > > CP/M-80 but I haven't been able to find any other information on the > system, > > > or the OS. > > > > > No one that I've talked to knows anything about this PC, so I won't even > > > hope that anyone here would have the OS but... I'm wondering if there is > a > > > way to make a new copy of the OS for this system? If I can find out the > > > hardware addressing, etc., can CP/M 80 be made to run on it, and without > a > > > horrific amount of work? (I know, depends on what I consider a lot of > > > work.)I don't mind tedious, if it's do-able. > > > > The Olys did run eiter CP/M-80 2.x or one of two different > > propriatary OSes. I just have no Oly, so I can't supply > > any disks. > > > > Sorry > > H. > > > > -- > > Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. > > H.Achternbusch > > > If anyone turns up a copy/copies of the operating system and can provide > it to me, perhaps I can be of help the next time! > > - don From donm at cts.com Tue Dec 21 23:21:46 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. In-Reply-To: <199912211817.KAA27476@civic.hal.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, Dwight Elvey wrote: > "Ernest" wrote: > > Hi Don. I may be able to get a copy of CP/M-80 but it won't be for my > > specific system. That's the problem. I don't have the OS for it. That's why > > I was curious about how difficult it would be to set up a generic copy of > > CP/M to run on it. I've never assembled (?) CP/M for a computer, but I've > > been reading a how to on doing it, and interested in giving it a shot. I'm > > not even sure of how to load/run the system monitor to ID the various > > address' but the thing is, as with anything, there's always a first time, > > and you have to start somewhere. > > To dispell any possible confusion, it is the CCP and BDOS that are the generic parts of CP/M, abd the BIOS which is machine specific. - don > Hi Ernest > Most of CP/M is generic but the part called BDOS has to > be specifically written to work on your computer. This > part contains both the disk, printer, punch and serial I/O. > The most important are the disk and serial. Usually the > serial is easy because there were only a limited number > of serial chips used. You don't have to make the serial > interrupt driven. It is easier to make it a simple polled > system at first. I've left mine as a polled system because > I see no need to setup serial when I'm the only user. > The disk I/O is a little more difficult. You'll need > to know how the disk interface works. Most of the newer > disk interfaces use one of the Western Digital series > of chips. The reading and writing of sectors is relatively > easy. You'll still need to have some understanding of > disk formats and how the sectors are addressed. > If you can find examples of code for the interfaces you > have, 95% of the battle is won. You'll need a way of getting > the code into the memory and then to the disk of your machine > or someone else with a running machine can create the > disk. The IMSAIs have the advantage that they have front > panel switches. The machine may have a ROM based monitor > that can be handy. If not, you'll need another machine > to help boot strap your machine. The other machine doesn't > need to be the same type, it only needs to be able to > write the same disk format. > I brought an old IMSAI back to life by doing a BDOS for > it. It had an AY-3-1015 serial chip that was typical > of the older machines. These are generally easy to work > with since there is no software initialization ( other > than clearing power up trash ) that needs to be done. > The 8251 and 8250 type parts require initialization > but they are also more versatile. The disk interface, on > my machine, was an early TTL interface that had DMA to the > machines memory. This took me quite a while to figure out > and it wasn't until I found a schematic that I was able to > figure it out ( it also was broken ). Luckily for you, most > of the newer interfaces use standard chips and are easier to > deal with. In many cases, you can make progress without > schematics and only the chip manufactures spec sheet. > It is also possible that many of the functions you need > are already in ROMs on your machine. > Dwight > > From dylanb at sympatico.ca Tue Dec 21 22:40:42 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: ***Load details part 1*** Message-ID: <003801bf4c36$b4555760$ea22d1d8@default> Okay... I am still in extreme pain (a nail went into my head at this site, not to mention other damage from being squashed by some stuff) but here goes an attempt to list what's on the first truck (I still have at least 3 more shipments to do): Hardware: PDP-1 software, 40 trays, all the DECUS stuff too, I expect a new or near completed PDP-1 as we get through the building Classic-8 rack mounted, looks new. -Already spoken for ... I promised this to a friend a few years ago.. I will get more of them.. I hope. PDP-16 PDP-11/20 (new) PDP11/15 (new) PDP8/L (2), 1 new and one with 12K core [mem expansion] PDT-11/130 new in box PDP-11/35 one new, 3 others in racks RK05s,06s,07s TS02s,TS03s PDP-11/05 (3) , and 2 "Industrial 11s - blue panel" (9+) ME-11 core memory expanders - all 24K PDP 11/03s RX01s/RX02s (many, many new) 1200 R/W series flip chips boards PDP-8/S parts (was damaged in flood in 1969) (4+) TU56s, some new TU56 prototype spare new unibus boards (700+) spare new CPU boards (a few hundred) expanders filled with >????? (10+) new backplanes/font panels for PDP-8Ls,PDP-11s,LSIs, peripherals.. etc.. lp25 band printer (cool!) various stands and racks used in pictures in DEC photos PC05s, etc... TC11 TC01 RK05 track writer and exerciser (cool) I know there is a lot more but I can't think of it right now.... Manuals (extensive... far beyond what I imagined): Microfiche for every device, peripheral, board made by digital from 1965 to 1978 (mostly PDP-8,PDP11,LSI but I did find a box full labeled PDP-10) 15 boxes of PDP-8 manuals for everything you could think of including the 338 display too many boxes to count of PDP11 CPU/Peripheral manuals Every DEC handbook ever made Internal DEC manuals "DEC Tips" and training material for the 8/s,8/I,8/e,etc... DEC module bible -1984 :-))))))) , in print and disk, and tape.. sweet.. every module in order with description and unit installed in... Software: 234 trays of PDP-11 paper tape software 40 trays of PDP-8 paper tape software a few hundred mag tapes 96 dectapes (both 8/11) hundreds of floppy disks [I have told that I will have every version of every piece of software both in beta and released in every format PT,dectape,magtape,rx01,rx02.. I still have a huge room to clean out filled with RSTS,RSX,and RT11, OS/8] 65 RK05 packs, both PDP8,and 11, LSI Tools: Extenders KM11s dual KM11 extenders serial handheld tools ?? portable microfiche readers calipers and gauges too many things to list.... Upgrade kits and spares Many TU56 parts (new wheels, etc) Printer parts from hell. disk/tape cleaning kits, new heads,filters, etc... Coolest stuff (stuff I will keep): TC11 new TU56s LP25 :-) microfiche (even PDP-8 schematics, schematics for every module made in order from A-series to Z) :-) Stuff I saw but have to pull out next trip: 300 more boxes of manuals 200+ boxes of software PDP-11/35s PDP-11/05s PDP11/20s PDP-11/34s (all old style) PDP-11/03s (all with RX02s) LA30 Decwriter everything..... VT100s 20+ and.... there is the "unknown" building where everything PDP-11/20 and before went... I will try and clean a path to it next.. I looked through a window [visibility is 3 feet] and saw a bunch of R-series backplanes, 11/20s, 11/15s, and what looks to be more PDP-8Ls. (again.. stacked 10 feet high) How I got the nail in my head? I spoke to an old DEC at the warehouse.. He told me they stacked old pre PDP-8 stuff (light) in the rafters... I climbed up and saw out of the corner of my eye a box labeled "R107"... thinking about my PDP-8/S I dove for it... only to have a nail take a chunk out of me... while recovering on very *weak* beams I dropped down a 1100 flip chips and the PDP-1 software. There is still alot left up there but I was in a lot of pain and the trucks were full. 19 hours to load (two days), 12 hours to unload... A lot of this stuff will be for sale/trade. An inventory is almost impossible as I expect a few thousand UNIBUS boards, a few thousand flip chips, at least 300 core memory boards, now, at least 75 minis, manuals, paper tape when done. I don't know what I am going to do yet. [I did not expect this].. Maybe a super Keyways???. I did rent the largest apartment I could find and filled it. I also have two storage units filled and my lab. AT&T gave me the bottom floor of one of their buildings to use but.... [you'll never guess].. it's filled with MicroVAX's and PDPs from a company they bought out a little while ago... I get that stuff next month. Funniest part: I loaded the trucks sooo heavy that every time I turned the corner the back bottomed out and ground down the tires. The border did not stop the trucks... let me through without taxes. I will try and put up picture in the next day or so on my site... I am really sick right now and am trying to recover for XMAS. OHH, by the way.. I got a call today and have a warehouse to go to that has a ton of HP-2 stuff, software, manuals, boards, and wang tube stuff, also...???? Sad part is I doubt I will be able to find any more *cool* stuff after march.. Most of this was scheduled to go to the dump in March and most companies are pitching anything non-Y2K complaint over the next 3 months. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 22 01:13:06 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: A trick (Was: Re: Please help me clean out!) In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991221105815.00992ec0@207.207.0.212> References: <385EF555.A713766C@idirect.com> <3.0.5.32.19991219161942.009552e0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: >You might want to note that I found that it costs less to have UPS come and >pick up the packages from your house/office than to take them to a >MailBoxes Etc. or other mailing operation. They hit you 3 times, price of shipping materials, packing fee, higher rates by a good percentage over UPS "standard" rates. The end result can be two or three times the self shipping cost, AND you lose a day compared to over the counter shipping times. OTOH over the counter is KILLING me. Shipping in general is the most onerous part of the whole old computer buying and selling thing I am doing. I've taken the better part of 3 days or more to pack and ship a single package. Making a few stops to find some "free" boxes, packing materials, testing stuff, just finding the "whole" order when someone orders "conversationally" via half a dozen emails. Packing so that 10 year old computers "might" still work after UPS drops them a few times. Then finish the whole thing with making it to the counter when its open and waiting in the lines. I know my basic problem is doing the whole thing half assed, but doing it right isn't practical to the cheap side of me at the level I operate. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Wed Dec 22 01:23:10 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: IBM 360/370 emulation? In-Reply-To: <13509284637.15.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: >Anyone know where I can get my hands on an emulator of an IBM 360/370? >Always wanted to meet one, and I'm curious. (Taking a shortish rest from >working on the '10. I'm into paging and such now and it's giving me fits.) > >Failing that, anyone know where to get documentation so I can hack one up >after I'm done fighting with E10? > >Altavista search turns up junk matches (resumes and such) and a couple >emulators that have disappeared. >------- Did anybody buy some of those emulation card sets that turned up a few months ago on the list? Some surplus place claimed for have a bunch of for like $50 a pop, then seemed to back off later on about having many at all. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 22 03:03:47 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: One TTY problem down, one to go Message-ID: <19991222090347.17321.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> OK... I found and fixed the lack of paper feed problem. It was caused by there being a variable amount of force needed to turn the platten depending on where it was in the rotation. In other words, there is a flat spot or the platten itself is bent (I only suggest this because one of the units may have had something resting on top due to a bad garage packing job done by my former roommates when I was out of the U.S. for a time). When I swapped plattens between my two TTYs, the recipent unit turned over like a breeze. I did discover that you need to remove the print mechanism from the base to get access to a spring that's critical in the line feed linkage. Fortunately, I found out the easy way and not by busting something. Now all that remains is the type cylinder/print hammer retraction problem. I can type zeros all day and it behaves nicely. Most keys, however, do not yield satisfactory results. I currently suspect that the bar that rides up and down on the 2cm-tall pegs (topped with circlips) on either side of the type cylinder is gummed up in some fashion. It moves up and down freely by hand, but there is a bit of stickiness that I don't think should be there. If I could figure out how to remove the entire assembly, I'd swap it with the other unit. At this point, I can manage exchanging entire assemblies much more than individual parts. I did locate my wiring diagrams (B-sized, blue covers, about a dozen pages) but but not the grey maintenance manuals. :-( Thanks for all the helpful suggestions so far. I've been wiping and oiling (carefully) as I go along. I did get those replacement print hammers from Western Numeric Control. They are $2.50 each and just slip around the groove on the bar face. I didn't know there was a groove there because my old pad was clogging it. I wasn't experiencing any problems with the sticky foot, but I do like to use the proper parts when available. Speaking of proper parts, I got some of the gear grease on me from the helical-cut gears by the motor. I take it that these gears take a graphite-bearing grease or something similar. It certainly isn't axle or lithium grease. Any ideas? TIA, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From mike at delos.rain.com Wed Dec 22 04:56:36 1999 From: mike at delos.rain.com (Mike Newman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Free stuff - my family needs more room Message-ID: <199912221058.CAA29803@agora.rdrop.com> Here's a brief list of stuff that needs to go, free to anyone willing to haul it away: (2) Sun 386i - case only, includes power supply. These look similar to a mid-size tower PC case. (2) ADDS terminals. These things are huge, but I believe they work. MAG PC monitor, 14 or 15". No high voltage. Assorted WYSE terminals for parts. If nobody wants this stuff it will probably end up in the garbage very soon (except for the ADDS terminals, which will go to Goodwill if they will accept them). I live in Aloha Oregon, which is a suburb of Portland. ----------------------------------------------------- Mike Newman INTERNET: mike@delos.rain.com Aloha, Oregon USA -or- mike.w.newman@gte.net http://home1.gte.net/res003ki/index.htm ----------------------------------------------------- From oliv555 at arrl.net Wed Dec 22 07:32:15 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Boot ROMS Needed Message-ID: <3860D2DF.37B2E69B@arrl.net> I am in need of the RX01(753A9) and RK05(756A9) roms for the M9312 boot/term board. Can trade any of my "extra" roms, RL:(751A9), RX02(811A9), DP:/DB:(755A9), or MM:(757A9). I can probably also be talked into attaching one of my spare M9312's to any of said roms to make this trade. Thanks. Nick From LFessen106 at aol.com Wed Dec 22 08:07:44 1999 From: LFessen106 at aol.com (LFessen106@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Classic Computer Collection web site Message-ID: <0.d3f4688d.25923530@aol.com> Please check out my web site for info on my collection and computer collecting in general. The URL is: http://members.aol.com/lfessen106/8-bits.htm I would also appreciate any tips, tricks or tidbits of information you may have for collecting, refurbishing, repairing, and using old computers. I would like to build a helpful page for our hobby. -Linc. From oliv555 at arrl.net Wed Dec 22 09:43:08 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: OT: Looking for VAXstation to play with References: <19991217045131.6982.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> <3.0.1.16.19991217164256.20ffd7fe@mailhost.intellistar.net> <004c01bf4b7a$bd0e7d80$586cc9d1@lothar> <385F9BEA.F9666471@arrl.net> <002d01bf4bd5$5886a6c0$246cc9d1@lothar> Message-ID: <3860F18C.21A6D0A2@arrl.net> swolfe wrote: > Ok... what in a price range are you looking for? The VS3100/m38 has 24Mb, 2 RZ23L (VMS5.5-2), RX23, keyboard & mouse, no monitor. $80, shipping included. The VS3100/m76 has 16mb, RZ25 (wiped, no OS).Also $80(ship. incl.). You might also want to check out eBay, theres several of these being offered there now. The SPX/GPX thing has me confused. One of these boxes is badged 'SPX' yet both have the same 54-19623 video board. The catalog describes this only as "scanproc 8plane2d". The VMS 'scan cluster/continuous.......add hw_type' trick does not ID the graphics. I'm using the console terminal so cant comment on the graphics. Can anyone shed light on this? Nick From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Dec 22 09:49:35 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Available: HP1000 pocket guides Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991222074935.00952220@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Here's something I'm willing to ship. I've turned up three HP1000 pocket guides. These are small blue plastic binders that seem to have quite a wealth of info on the HP1000's inside (they're about 1.5 inches thick). $5.00 each + $3.20 priority mail = $8.20 each. If you're local, you can come and pick one up for $5 even. Thanks much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From oliv555 at arrl.net Wed Dec 22 09:59:30 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Floppy drives for uVAX II; TRW Swap References: Message-ID: <3860F562.3F51C559@arrl.net> John Lawson wrote: > Greetingz classiccmpistas.. I am in the market for a floppy drive > for the MicroVax II... the machine I wish to add to has a TK50 and > an RD54 (I think) and a Cipher 880 looking like a TS11. I've got a RX50 in one of my spare BA23 boxes. If thats the drive youre looking for, I can bring it by when Im at TRW. Let me know. Nick From mrbelles at pittstate.edu Wed Dec 22 10:15:27 1999 From: mrbelles at pittstate.edu (mark belles) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull:Laptop Message-ID: <005301bf4c97$c2cb2890$99d1f8c6@pittstate.edu> Hey, Anybody familiar with the Zenith Data Systems line of Honeywell Bull laptop computers? I just recently got one from a friend, complete with an inkjet printer. I have pretty much all the specs/manuals that originally came with it. No software. I booted it up for the first time and got into the BIOS and fiddled with it enough for it to boot. It had DOS installed on it. Does anyone know if that is the original OS, if not what was it? Now here's the problem, when it boots now I can't get into BIOS or even into the system monitor program. I have tried boot disks, nothing. I can't get it to read the disk. hard disk or floppy. The boot disks I have tried have all been 1.44 mb, do you think that maybe a low density disk would make a difference, and if so does anyone know where I can get my hands on one? Anyone have any ideas? Sure could use some advice! Thanks, Mark Belles -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991222/7455816f/attachment.html From enrico.badella at softstar.it Wed Dec 22 10:27:39 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: two questions References: <0.d3f4688d.25923530@aol.com> Message-ID: <3860FBFB.10B66457@softstar.it> Hi all, Two questions about old machines I saw; don't know if there are chances to get any of them. Solbourne 700. With some surfing I got the impression it is a 4 way SMP running SunOs 4.1.x. Saw this machine only in a photo that a friend of a friend took. ATEX publishing system. I will have the opportunity to look close at at least 8 of these. From outside the machine room they look identical to PDP-11/34, however the current onwer says there is nothing left of the original 11s, but admits that he knows nothing about them. Any info are appreciated e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 22 11:13:10 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: ***Load details part 1*** Message-ID: <199912221713.JAA30277@spies.com> "Funniest part: I loaded the trucks sooo heavy that every time I turned the corner the back bottomed out and ground down the tires. The border did not stop the trucks... let me through without taxes. " Would it make sense to find people near these locations and store the stuff near where it is coming from, or find some cheap warehouse space? All of this sounds like more than one person's worth of work to me... From dylanb at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 22 10:23:01 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: ***Load details part 1*** Message-ID: <000e01bf4c98$d6ffede0$762bd1d8@default> -----Original Message----- From: Al Kossow To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 12:13 PM Subject: Re: ***Load details part 1*** >"Funniest part: I loaded the trucks sooo heavy that every time I turned the >corner the back bottomed out and ground down the tires. The border did not >stop the trucks... let me through without taxes. >" > >Would it make sense to find people near these locations and store the stuff >near where it is coming from, or find some cheap warehouse space? > Most of the stuff is new. I had *no* idea what was there. I thought maybe 20 racks...I made the deal on the phone without ever seeing the stuff. Even the DEC guy had no idea what was there. I had the help of three others and we all got beaten. I was told I could pick and chose but gave up and decided to take everything - and that was much appreciated. I quickly went out and rented more large 1-way trucks and we loaded them all -didn't even make a dent in the place. I got back to TO with no idea where to put it. I know the owners of a large apartment building here and rented the largest apartment they had and rented it. My Dad donated the bottom floor of his home and I filled storage units. I am trying to arrange for a large warehouse now. >All of this sounds like more than one person's worth of work to me... > It is... My dad is 60 and almost had a heart attack. I had the flu going down there. The DEC guy (who has a lot of experience with DEC stuff from '68-90) was completely exhausted. He laughed at me when he heard I wanted the TU56 drives.. he called them pure junk and really dislikes them. I don't know what to expect next there.. visibility is only about 3 feet and I have a long way to go... somehow I think there is a lot more than 14,000 pounds of DEC stuff left there.... I am feeling a bit better today and hope to fire up one of those 11/20s. john From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 22 11:30:08 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: two questions Message-ID: <199912221730.JAA30927@spies.com> "Two questions about old machines I saw; don't know if there are chances to get any of them. Solbourne 700. With some surfing I got the impression it is a 4 way SMP running SunOs 4.1.x. Saw this machine only in a photo that a friend of a friend took. " Tom Dowdy has a nice page on Solbournes at http://www.cs.colorado.edu/~dowdy/Solbourne/Solbourne.html They aren't bad machines (other than being prone to overheating). We just retired our last Series 6 machine at spies.com about two months ago. They are SPARC based (either Cypress (series 5) or TI SuperSPARC (series 6)) but the hardware is completely unique (they have their own main bus with VME for expansion) If someone in the Bay Area has a use for them, and would make me a resonable offer, I have a lot of series 5 and 6 spare boards. From elvey at hal.com Wed Dec 22 11:42:24 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199912221742.JAA16507@civic.hal.com> Don Maslin wrote: > > To dispell any possible confusion, it is the CCP and BDOS that are the > generic parts of CP/M, abd the BIOS which is machine specific. > > - don Sorry for the confusion. You are correct. One still need the needed information on the disk interface, disk format and serial I/O to write this part. Dwight From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 22 11:49:32 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull:Laptop In-Reply-To: <005301bf4c97$c2cb2890$99d1f8c6@pittstate.edu> Message-ID: > Anybody familiar with the Zenith Data Systems line >of Honeywell Bull laptop computers? I just recently got >one from a friend, complete with an inkjet printer. I have >pretty much all the specs/manuals that originally came >with it. Well, I'm not familiar with that computer, BUT, the combo of Zenith Data Systems and Honeywell Bull possitivelly scream US Military/Government. I am familiar with the Macintosh that Honeywell Bull did :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mrbelles at pittstate.edu Wed Dec 22 12:40:39 1999 From: mrbelles at pittstate.edu (mark belles) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull:Laptop References: Message-ID: <006c01bf4cac$0bafa6d0$99d1f8c6@pittstate.edu> I think that perhaps the computer came from some local government agency. I don't exactly know which one. I think it would be pretty cool to see if anything is left on the drive. My friend said that his wife was able to take it home when they upgraded to something newer. I can't remember who it was she worked for, but I do agree that it was dealing with a government agency. Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Zane H. Healy" To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 11:49 AM Subject: Re: Honeywell Bull:Laptop > > Anybody familiar with the Zenith Data Systems line > >of Honeywell Bull laptop computers? I just recently got > >one from a friend, complete with an inkjet printer. I have > >pretty much all the specs/manuals that originally came > >with it. > > Well, I'm not familiar with that computer, BUT, the combo of Zenith Data > Systems and Honeywell Bull possitivelly scream US Military/Government. I > am familiar with the Macintosh that Honeywell Bull did :^) > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pat at transarc.ibm.com Wed Dec 22 13:00:00 1999 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Speaking of "big iron" emulators Message-ID: This is sort of off-the-wall, but does anyone know if there are any emulators extant for my other favorite 36-bit machines - the Univac 1100 series? Yet another one I might try to work on an emulator for, assuming I ever retrieve my docs from my mother's house ... Of course, I don't have a copy of OS1100, so I don't know what I could do with such a thing.... (And, you can still buy a lot of this documentation, too - it's still listed as available, and purchasable on-line, on Unisys's web site...). --Pat. From arfonrg at texas.net Wed Dec 22 13:05:58 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Mod III rheostats? Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991222130558.00979210@207.207.0.212> Anyone Know the Value for the TRS-80 M3's Contrast and brightness rheostats? ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 22 13:13:03 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Speaking of "big iron" emulators Message-ID: <199912221913.LAA02748@spies.com> I don't know of any simulators for the Univac 36 bit series. It would be an interesting project, though. I wonder how much documentationf or the original ERA machine still exists. Exec 8 or it's descendents may be tough to find, though. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 22 12:44:45 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: One TTY problem down, one to go In-Reply-To: <19991222090347.17321.qmail@web602.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 22, 99 01:03:47 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 4035 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991222/1a5e90ee/attachment.ksh From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 22 13:43:40 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull:Laptop In-Reply-To: <006c01bf4cac$0bafa6d0$99d1f8c6@pittstate.edu> References: Message-ID: >I think that perhaps the computer came from some local government agency. I >don't exactly know which one. I think it would be pretty cool to see if >anything is left on the drive. My friend said that his wife was able to take >it home when they upgraded to something newer. I can't remember who it was >she worked for, but I do agree that it was dealing with a government agency. >Mark Umm..... Standard loadout would have probably been a customized version of DOS (ZDS actually had a couple cool additions) with some of the following; WordPerfect V5.1, Lotus 1-2-3, dBase III or IV, and Harvard Graphics. Least wise those were the standard apps available in the late 80's early 90's. Since it's listed as a Honeywell Bull, probably software to connect to a DPS-6 or DPS-8 class Mainframe. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 22 14:06:25 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: One TTY problem down, one to go Message-ID: <19991222200625.2992.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > > > The platten, at least on friction-feed models, is a plastic moulding and > it's very unlikely to bent (I have had one break off at the end :-(). My concern is that something heavy may have been left on this thing for multiple months/years and bent the plastic over time. I don't know this for certain, but when I got home, the cover was broken (crack in the clear acrylic panel at a corner, small bits broken off the opaque cover adjacent). I'll disengage the heavy spring from the front ratchet and see how freely this platten turns. For my tests last night, I was turning the platten manually with a light grip on the feed knob and, depending on the angular position of the platten, sometimes the platten would turn, other times, my hand would slip on the knob. With the plattens exchanged, the better unit turns easily and freely about the whole revolution and didn't miss a single line feed in several feet of tests. > Most likely there's uneven waer or stickyness on the ratchet teeth on the > platten. This is a common problem and causes the feed pawl to stick. It is not stickiness on the ratchet teeth. I remove the platten and cleaned each tooth with a cloth and blunt stick. It could be uneven wear. > > I did discover that you need to remove the print mechanism > > from the base to get access to a spring... > > Actually, you can take the linkage apart above the chassis and leave the > spring connected underneath. It's a bit of a fiddle to get it back, though. I saw that the linkage could be disassembled, but at least this way, I didn't have to readjust the tolerances. Fortunately, I think this is a one-time job. > Take off the ribbon. Optionally (but I always do it because it makes life > easier) take off the ribbon feed mechanism by loosening the 2 screws under > the front edge and lifting it up and out. Got that already. > Unhook the carriage return spring... Easy enough. > (This bit is not in the manuals AFAIK, but it's essential). Pull out the > rubber insert from the damper piston on the left side of the carriage. An important tip. Many thanks. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 22 13:53:03 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Mod III rheostats? In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19991222130558.00979210@207.207.0.212> from "Arfon Gryffydd" at Dec 22, 99 01:05:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 383 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991222/92001f53/attachment.ksh From truthanl at oclc.org Wed Dec 22 14:23:55 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:24 2005 Subject: Honeywell Bull:Laptop Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE70@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> Can you format one 1.44MB down to 720K? Early Laptops had 720 K diskettes. Should be a format switch like / 720 or s:720 -----Original Message----- From: mark belles [mailto:mrbelles@pittstate.edu] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 1999 11:15 AM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Honeywell Bull:Laptop Hey, Anybody familiar with the Zenith Data Systems line of Honeywell Bull laptop computers? I just recently got one from a friend, complete with an inkjet printer. I have pretty much all the specs/manuals that originally came with it. No software. I booted it up for the first time and got into the BIOS and fiddled with it enough for it to boot. It had DOS installed on it. Does anyone know if that is the original OS, if not what was it? Now here's the problem, when it boots now I can't get into BIOS or even into the system monitor program. I have tried boot disks, nothing. I can't get it to read the disk. hard disk or floppy. The boot disks I have tried have all been 1.44 mb, do you think that maybe a low density disk would make a difference, and if so does anyone know where I can get my hands on one? Anyone have any ideas? Sure could use some advice! Thanks, Mark Belles From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 22 14:46:49 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: Fwd: Re: Motorola 68k family ( was Re: Comparison of system specs. ) Message-ID: <19991222204649.3887.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> A followup to a previous discussion about Amigas, Palm Pilots, instruction sets, etc. --- Gareth Knight wrote: > From: "Gareth Knight" > To: > Subject: Re: Motorola 68k family ( was Re: Comparison of system specs. ) > Date: Sat, 18 Dec 1999 23:24:37 -0000 > > Ethan Dicks > > I did see Dave Haynie mention that there were some fundamental differences > > in the Dragonball that caused binary-level compatibility problems, but I > > don't recall the specifics, either. > > I had a look through the Team Amiga archives and found this. I would > appreciate it if you could forward it onto the list. > > From: Dave Haynie > To: > Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 6:59 PM > Subject: Re: Fw: Re: [TA] Re: Look what those wily Atarians are up to!!!! > > > > > > On Fri, 03 Dec 1999 15:33:49 +0100, "g'o'tz ohnesorge" > > rtechnik.de> jammed all night, and by sunrise was overheard remarking: > > > > > Jim Mackoy schrieb: > > > > > > Unfortunately, I am not sure the 68040 or 68060 was ever > > > > reduced to VHDL file. The Coldfire was, and Dragonball, > > > > but these are pretty low performance compared to the the > > > > synthesizeable versions of Mips, x86, Sparc and PPC > > > > Sad, because in many way ways the 68K was the most complete > > > > and elegant microprocessor of the lot. > > > > I don't think DragonBall or any other Motorola 68K variation is fully > > synthesized -- Motorola made a fairly big to-do about the fact that > > ColdFire is, whole chip. MIPS has a killer (for embedded stuff) > > synthesizable core you can licence. I don't know of any decent x86 core > > (there are probably low-end things, and you can find an 8052 core in the > > public domain I think). I don't know any PPC offering, either internally > > or as a licensable core. There are tons of ARM cores; like MIPS, it's > > been simple enough to offer since back when these things had to be pretty > > simple (due to weak VHDL compilers). Ed Hepler's company offers a whole > > 40MHz 68K compatible in VHDL. > > > > > Sure. But something like ColdFire in VHDL is a start at least; the > missing > > > commands could be added, and while they might be slower this way than a > > > "perfect" solution, they'd still be faster as a whole than any Amiga now > > > .. > > > > So far, Motorola's not actively licensing the core (don't know if that's > > a "won't" or a "would, but not what we like to sell" thing), but of > > course the could if necessary for competition. Primarily, it's a way for > > them to release new version with different features faster than in the > > past. The did this without synthesis throughout the MC683xx line, using > > standardized component modules (design and layout largely prefabbed, more > > or less like standard cell), but it's much more efficient with VHDL. And > > of course, this way, any I/O block you design for ColdFire could be > > reused for PowerPC or any other design that comes along. > > > > > and cheap like a Nintendo GameBoy along the way. > > > > That's a 6502-like thing. > -- > Gareth Knight > Amiga Interactive Guide http://aig.amiga.tm > Mystery of Life? I found it on Aminet! > > ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Wed Dec 22 15:14:41 1999 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: Some questions... Message-ID: <19991222211441.17522.qmail@hotmail.com> OK, First, does anyone have docs/software for and FPS 5300 Array Processor? I know what it is and what it does, but I need more than that.. lol... Second, anyone have manuals and software for the Professional 325? I need them badly... Third, same for Honeywell DPS-6/54... Fourth, I need an Interdata 7/32C front panel. Fifith, an Interdata card reader. 6th, an Interdata line printer. 7th, some Data General binders circa Nova 1210, if such critters exist, to house my docs for said machine. 8th, advice on whether or not I should try to restore a VAX 8650, its currently upside down and cardless, but I have more than half of the cards and it doesn't look rusty or anything.. also 2 Unibus cabinets, 2 SBI cabinets, and the FEP.. Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From af-list at wfi-inc.com Wed Dec 22 15:20:27 1999 From: af-list at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: OT (by a year or so) Electronics/Keyboard Interface Question Message-ID: Hi, Can anyone explain to me what make a PC recognize whether there's a keyboard attached or not? Is it something as simple as current/voltage, or does the bios actually have to receive some kind of recognizable signal from the keyboard? I have a vintage ThinkPad that doesn't like my external keyboard, yet it works fine with other external keyboards that I've tried. Mine works fine on another system... As always, any help would really be appreciated, Aaron From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 22 15:31:01 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: Some questions... In-Reply-To: <19991222211441.17522.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >First, does anyone have docs/software for and FPS 5300 Array Processor? I >know what it is and what it does, but I need more than that.. lol... Is this one that hooks up to a MicroVAX II? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jeff.kaneko at juno.com Wed Dec 22 15:27:24 1999 From: jeff.kaneko at juno.com (Jeffrey L Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: Please help me clean out! Message-ID: <19991222.152956.-110353.1.jeff.kaneko@juno.com> On Sun, 19 Dec 1999 16:19:42 -0800 Bruce Lane writes: > Three DSD-880's with multiple manuals and diagnostic disks. > Also included is a DEC-produced VHS training video on how to service the beasties, > and at least one each of UniBus and Q-bus controllers for them (I say at > least because I'm not sure how many of each I have). I will also include > rack slides for the lot. Do you think you could make a copy of the manual for the DSD-880 for me? I'll pick up postage, plus a little extra for your time . . . . You sure make me wish to hell I lived in the pacific northwest. I really would have *loved* to grab some of the stuff off of the 'LIST'. Thanks Jeff ___________________________________________________________________ Why pay more to get Web access? Try Juno for FREE -- then it's just $9.95/month if you act NOW! Get your free software today: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj. From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 22 15:49:59 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: DEC/Compaq Collection arrives! Message-ID: <199912222149.NAA11124@spies.com> "Note: photos of actual machines will be posted at this same URL " Do you have an inventory of the documentation/software that came with the machines? From spicer at computerhistory.org Wed Dec 22 15:32:56 1999 From: spicer at computerhistory.org (Dag Spicer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: DEC/Compaq Collection arrives! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991222133256.00f01820@mail.netcare.com> Hi Everyone! Just an update on the great DEC/Compaq collection that arrived last week from New Hamsphire. Over 90,000 lbs of historical DEC hardware arrived thanks to a generous grant to cover shipping from Compaq. Mike Zahares of TransTech, our North American Van Lines agent, did his usual brilliant job of making sure everything was handled with kid gloves over the 3,000 mile journey! Thanks to the many volunteers who helped in the receiving of these rare artifacts, they now have a permanent home (the artifacts, not the volunteers! Although some volunteers _do_ seem to live here!) :_) Special thanks, therefore, to: Lee Courtney, Bill Pitts, Bobbi and Steve Rabinowitz, Charlie Pefferkorn, Jake Feinler, Mark Schaeffer, Ron Mak, Rob Shaw, Ken Sumrall, Al Kossow, Grant Saviers, Joe Frederik, John C. Green, Sam Ismail, Mike Baxter, Eli Goldberg, Ed Thelen, John Francis, Wayne Chin, Bob Joslin, Thomas J. Ackermann, Mike Zahares, Len Shustek, Mason Brown, Bud Warashina, and LaFarr Stuart. Forgive me if I have forgotten anyone! And History Center staffers Karen Mathews, Wendy-Ann Francis, Jack Hotchkiss, and Chris Garcia all pitched in and made sure the project went off without a hitch. Without all the hundreds of hours of help from these volunteers, who believe so firmly in the preservation of computer history, we could not have done this! Pictures of the arrival are available at: http://www.computerhistory.org/events/latest/ Note: photos of actual machines will be posted at this same URL on or about January 13th so check back then--we are creating a new exhibit on the DEC contributions to computing that opens to the public on that day! Thanks everyone for your support! Hope to see you at the Center or on-line soon... Sincerely, Dag. -- Dag Spicer Curator & Manager of Historical Collections Editorial Board, IEEE Annals of the History of Computing The Computer Museum History Center Building T12-A NASA Ames Research Center Mountain View, CA 94035 Offices: Building T12-A Exhibit Area: Building 126 Tel: +1 650 604 2578 Fax: +1 650 604 2594 E-m: spicer@computerhistory.org WWW: http://www.computerhistory.org PGP: 15E31235 (E6ECDF74 349D1667 260759AD 7D04C178) S/V T12 Read about the latest History Center developments in "CORE," our quarterly on-line newsletter: http://www.computerhistory.org/events/core/1.1/ From spicer at computerhistory.org Wed Dec 22 16:05:05 1999 From: spicer at computerhistory.org (Dag Spicer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: DEC/Compaq Collection arrives! In-Reply-To: <199912222149.NAA11124@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991222140505.00f00540@mail.netcare.com> No such inventory yet. But as you saw we _do_ have many boxes of materials. I can answer this question better when we get to cataloguing the collection. You are, of course, free to help in this process! :_) Thanks Al! d. At 01:49 PM 12/22/99 -0800, Al Kossow wrote: >"Note: photos of actual machines will be posted at this same URL " > >Do you have an inventory of the documentation/software that came >with the machines? > > -- Dag Spicer Curator & Manager of Historical Collections Editorial Board, IEEE Annals of the History of Computing The Computer Museum History Center Building T12-A NASA Ames Research Center Mountain View, CA 94035 Offices: Building T12-A Exhibit Area: Building 126 Tel: +1 650 604 2578 Fax: +1 650 604 2594 E-m: spicer@computerhistory.org WWW: http://www.computerhistory.org PGP: 15E31235 (E6ECDF74 349D1667 260759AD 7D04C178) S/V T12 Read about the latest History Center developments in "CORE," our quarterly on-line newsletter: http://www.computerhistory.org/events/core/1.1/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 22 15:56:10 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: OT (by a year or so) Electronics/Keyboard Interface Question In-Reply-To: from "Aaron Christopher Finney" at Dec 22, 99 01:20:27 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1590 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991222/7909ab90/attachment.ksh From f.bonomi at agora.stm.it Wed Dec 22 15:49:54 1999 From: f.bonomi at agora.stm.it (Francesco Bonomi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: Oldest machine I've ever seen for sale... Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991222224954.0085c830@agora.stm.it> It seems that nobody has noticed that on ebay is going for sale an IBM 604 calculator. This is the oldest electronic machine I've never seen for sale, and if it weren't for an ocean dividing me and it... The IBM 604 was launched in 1948, and kept in commerce up to about 1953. It's about 2000 pounds total, 1400 tubes, a programmable calculator reading programs out of an punch reader (offered in this sale). There is a specimen of this machine at this dutch computer museum, with a photo of the little thing: http://www.wins.uva.nl/faculteit/museum/604.html This is how IBM depicts the 604 in it's own history: http://www.ibm.com/IBM/history/timeline.nsf/products2 The specimen on ebay has the 521 card punch/reader. This is the description of the seller: >IBM 604 weights 1300 pounds. LxWxH 52 1/4" x 31" x 60". >IBM 521 weights 740 pounds. LxWxH 41" x 25 1/2" x 50". >They require 220 volts & draw 36 amps running & 30 amps >at idle. These 1950s era EAM machines have around 1,000 >glass tubes & will heat up a room quickly. Sold as is, >may not be complete, some manuals but no parts catalogs. >This pair probably has not been used in 20 years. I repair >IBM card punches but not these babies! The machine is in Santa Fe, Texas, and the current bid is $224, ridiculously low if you consider that a single IBM tube of that series has been sold for up to $170 on ebay, and there is one currently going for $50. There are 1400 of them in the machine, and if somebody here does not act I am afraid the machine will be bought and cannibalized to sell pieces! There is still 1 day, 5 hours to the sale close! This is the ebay URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=219958046 Ciao Francesco Bonomi (from Italy) PS please let it be clear to anyone that I am not the seller; I just would like to be the buyer, but I can't becaus of obvious distance problems! From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 22 16:25:33 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: Oldest machine I've ever seen for sale... Message-ID: <199912222225.OAA12866@spies.com> "There is still 1 day, 5 hours to the sale close!" Which means the current high bid is meaningless. From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 22 16:35:07 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: Oldest machine I've ever seen for sale... In-Reply-To: <199912222225.OAA12866@spies.com> Message-ID: >"There is still 1 day, 5 hours to the sale close!" > >Which means the current high bid is meaningless. Yes, and the current high bid is by about the best person I'm aware of for it to go to. He's got the space, and it *will* be safe. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 22 16:36:34 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3 Question Message-ID: OK, question of the day, how many RAM boards can a MicroVAX handle? It's living in a Sigma Rackmount chassis. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 22 16:39:30 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: Oldest machine I've ever seen for sale... Message-ID: <199912222239.OAA13487@spies.com> "Yes, and the current high bid is by about the best person I'm aware of for it to go to. He's got the space, and it *will* be safe. " No argument there! From cisin at xenosoft.com Wed Dec 22 16:41:17 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Mod III rheostats? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Anyone Know the Value for the TRS-80 M3's Contrast and brightness rheostats? If you want to find out for sure, you can have the pots and measure them. Unfortunately, they are installed in 2 working M3's that you would have to take with them. Sorry, I do not want to ship. And if you fail to lock your car while picking them up, it will be filled with related stuff. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 From f.bonomi at agora.stm.it Wed Dec 22 16:17:28 1999 From: f.bonomi at agora.stm.it (Francesco Bonomi) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: Oldest machine I've ever seen for sale... In-Reply-To: References: <199912222225.OAA12866@spies.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991222231728.00859670@agora.stm.it> At 14.35 22/12/99 -0800, you wrote: >>"There is still 1 day, 5 hours to the sale close!" >> >>Which means the current high bid is meaningless. > >Yes, and the current high bid is by about the best person I'm aware of for >it to go to. He's got the space, and it *will* be safe. That's good news! Francesco From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Wed Dec 22 19:59:28 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3 Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.1.19991222175754.04164760@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> Zane wrote: >OK, question of the day, how many RAM boards can a MicroVAX handle? It's >living in a Sigma Rackmount chassis. How many Q/CD slots do you have? One of my KA655's came with a 5 socket memory top cable. I believe that it maxes out at 64MB though so a couple of 32MB cards were all it would recognize. The uVAX II (KA630) maxes out at 16MB. --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 22 20:21:44 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (healyzh@aracnet.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3 Question In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991222175754.04164760@mailhost.hq.freegate.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Dec 22, 1999 05:59:28 PM Message-ID: <199912230221.SAA12888@shell1.aracnet.com> > Zane wrote: > >OK, question of the day, how many RAM boards can a MicroVAX handle? It's > >living in a Sigma Rackmount chassis. > > How many Q/CD slots do you have? One of my KA655's came with a 5 socket > memory top cable. I believe that it maxes out at 64MB though so a couple of > 32MB cards were all it would recognize. The uVAX II (KA630) maxes out at 16MB. I think it's got 3 (4 if you count the slot with the processor, do you count that?). The downside is I think all my memory cables are for KA630's. I know the one on the KA650 can only handle two memory boards. With 3 8MB boards, I'd like to use them all. Of course a pair of 32MB boards would be even better :^) The big problem is I want to run OpenVMS 7.2, DECnet, TCPIP on it (NOT CMUIP though), and have it as part of my Cluster. I suspect 16MB really isn't enough for running DECnet and TCPIP 5.0, though I've heard of people running TCP/IP on 16MB machines. Hmmm, if one of the other machines in the cluster is running TCP/IP, can the disks on the MV3 be accessed via that machine? Guess I'd better look into that, if that will work, I don't need TCPIP on this system. Zane From dylanb at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 22 19:23:13 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: My Y2K wishlist Message-ID: <00ad01bf4ce4$47f423e0$762bd1d8@default> I am still looking for the following items and I hope someone out there can help: Centronics 704 printer (I think it's 704, maybe 104.. anyway, it has 4 heads, upper case only, 800 LPM) CalComp 563 or 565 or IBM 1627 Plotter MicroVAX 2000 (loaded) That's it. Please address any wishlists to me to wishlist@pdp8.com . That way I can catalog them and be able to fill them easier. Ie: someone asked me for docs to an RH11... I now have them available... who is it? john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 22 20:41:38 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3 Question Message-ID: <199912230241.VAA29586@world.std.com> Hi, Sorry to post nothing but junk, but I've been contacted by people on this list before who are active in donating/setting up computers for charities. Anyway, I recently came across 20 or so copies of Aldus PhotoStyler version 2.0 which are completely Spanish language. If there's anyone on the list who is doing work in Mexico/Latin America and want's these, let me know and I'll ship them out to you. Cheers, Aaron From enrico.badella at softstar.it Thu Dec 23 02:15:42 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3 Question References: <199912230221.SAA12888@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: <3861DA2E.A47B0891@softstar.it> healyzh@aracnet.com wrote: > > The big problem is I want to run OpenVMS 7.2, DECnet, TCPIP on it (NOT > CMUIP though), and have it as part of my Cluster. I suspect 16MB really > isn't enough for running DECnet and TCPIP 5.0, though I've heard of people > running TCP/IP on 16MB machines. Hmmm, if one of the other machines in the My 3100/M38 runs OpenVMS 7.2, UCX, DECNET and Motif in 12MB, not fast but better than my Wintel with NT; I know that the 3100 is a bit better than a KA630. On my uVax II I'm running VMS 4.7, DECNET and CMUIP in 9 MB RAM. I've always been impressed about how VMS handles loading with small RAM especially when you compare it m$ not technology. Regarding loading and performance handling I was wondering how Xerox D machines handle load; Tony any feedback? e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From mikeford at socal.rr.com Thu Dec 23 02:02:57 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: NCD 88K? In-Reply-To: <19991222204649.3887.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A bunch of terminal looking things came into a scrap yard this week, and very little makes sense about them. The boxes have Motorola 88100 20 mhz chips in them, but I don't remember any floppy or hard drives. The monitors are 5 BNC connections with the name NCD on them (some 17" some about 20") and on the back the manufacturer is listed as something like INY. Any ideas what they are? Network connection is selectible 10b2 or AUI. From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 23 02:39:31 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3 Question In-Reply-To: <3861DA2E.A47B0891@softstar.it> References: <199912230221.SAA12888@shell1.aracnet.com> Message-ID: Enrico Badella wrote: >My 3100/M38 runs OpenVMS 7.2, UCX, DECNET and Motif in 12MB, not fast but >better >than my Wintel with NT; I know that the 3100 is a bit better than a KA630. It's also 3.8 VUPs vs. the 2.8 VUPs of the KA650, but I'm not going to be running DECwindows/Motif. If you can get *any* kind of performance while running all that (I'd forgotten you were running the DW/Motif) I guess I don't need to worry about a 16MB machine. Basically all the system is going to be doing is activing as a Archive and will only be accessed by machines on my home network. I've not been worried about processing power, just that I'll have enough RAM to get acceptable preformance under V7.2. >On my uVax II I'm running VMS 4.7, DECNET and CMUIP in 9 MB RAM. I've >always Same config can handle VMS 5.5-2. I was tempted to go with 5.5-2, and one of the 3rd Party TCP/IP stacks on the Hobbyist program, but would prefer to keep my Cluster in a "Supported" configuration. You can cluster in 5.5-2, but only clusters of V6.2 - 7.2-1 are supported. What can I say, I admit it, I like being able to run "MONITOR CLUSTER" :^) >been impressed about how VMS handles loading with small RAM especially >when you compare it m$ not technology. Well.... a LOT of that is because you're running on VAX hardware. I've found that I don't get decent performance on my Alpha's when running with the minimum of 64MB, really need 96MB or more RAM in a Alpha to get good performance under OpenVMS. I've heard from a friend that attempted it that V7.2 won't install without a minimum of 64MB in the system. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jim at calico.litterbox.com Thu Dec 23 02:40:57 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: NCD 88K? In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Dec 23, 1999 12:02:57 AM Message-ID: <199912230840.BAA07959@calico.litterbox.com> > > A bunch of terminal looking things came into a scrap yard this week, and > very little makes sense about them. The boxes have Motorola 88100 20 mhz > chips in them, but I don't remember any floppy or hard drives. The monitors > are 5 BNC connections with the name NCD on them (some 17" some about 20") > and on the back the manufacturer is listed as something like INY. Any ideas > what they are? Network connection is selectible 10b2 or AUI. NCD makes Xterms. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 23 02:41:32 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: NCD 88K? In-Reply-To: References: <19991222204649.3887.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >A bunch of terminal looking things came into a scrap yard this week, and >very little makes sense about them. The boxes have Motorola 88100 20 mhz >chips in them, but I don't remember any floppy or hard drives. The monitors >are 5 BNC connections with the name NCD on them (some 17" some about 20") >and on the back the manufacturer is listed as something like INY. Any ideas >what they are? Network connection is selectible 10b2 or AUI. I'd guess they're X-Terminals. Though apparently at least some NCD terminals can function as either an X-Terminal or a normal terminal. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Dec 23 03:24:54 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: My Y2K wishlist Message-ID: <19991223092455.16137.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> --- John B wrote: > I am still looking for the following items and I hope someone out there can > help: > MicroVAX 2000 (loaded) I can help you with this, depending on what you mean by "loaded". -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place. Yahoo! Shopping: http://shopping.yahoo.com From guerney at uq.net.au Thu Dec 23 08:15:06 1999 From: guerney at uq.net.au (Phil Guerney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: An odd request... References: <3.0.5.32.19991220181941.00929100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <008601bf4d50$21366a80$560464cb@default> > Taking that one step further: Has anyone heard of the word processing > program 'Zardax,' and if so, do you know if it's possible to convert its > files to a more common format? That is an easy one from here. Zardax was written by a company called Computer Solutions, located in Mt Gravatt, a suburb of Brisbane, Australia - about 15 minutes drive from where I live. I have the full manual and disks if anyone needs a copy. I have checked through the manual, and like most software of the time, there does not seem to be an "export" or equivalent function. I could check out the disk format over the Xmas break if you still need help on this. Phil (in Brisbane, Australia). From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Dec 23 08:33:33 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: NCD 88K? In-Reply-To: References: <19991222204649.3887.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <19991223083333.D4468@mrbill.net> On Thu, Dec 23, 1999 at 12:41:32AM -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > >A bunch of terminal looking things came into a scrap yard this week, and > >very little makes sense about them. The boxes have Motorola 88100 20 mhz > >chips in them, but I don't remember any floppy or hard drives. The monitors > >are 5 BNC connections with the name NCD on them (some 17" some about 20") > >and on the back the manufacturer is listed as something like INY. Any ideas > >what they are? Network connection is selectible 10b2 or AUI. > I'd guess they're X-Terminals. Though apparently at least some NCD > terminals can function as either an X-Terminal or a normal terminal. > Zane Only if you've got the appropriate software - I have a 19R, and once it tftpboots its software from a host, it can either be an X terminal, can do telnet sessions on its own, or can be a normal serial terminal. for $20, its GREAT for sitting in the bedroom and reading email. 8-) Bill -- +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ |Bill Bradford | mrbill@pdp11.org | mrbill@mrbill.net | |http://www.sunhelp.org | http://www.pdp11.org | http://www.mrbill.net| +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Thu Dec 23 11:00:50 1999 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: new addition: modified PCjr Message-ID: <0.75371e88.2593af42@aol.com> in addition to getting a very clean PS2 80 and 65, i found a pcjr with strange modifications. a switch was added to the front of the jr that says: OFF/ON PC MODE. the computer sits on top of a case that's about XT form factor and it is called an EXTEC 1. It appears to have a hard drive, serial port and RJ11 jacks on it. a wide cable connects the jr to the extec. the jr also has 3 carts; one is jrVideo by pc enterprises, the second is pcjr clock cart by integrity tech, and one that says hardbios jr by MSC (HDD BIOS routines for the jr and RIM HD system it says) . also got an adaptor made by synetics sw and systems that allows two carts to plug into one cart slot. havent tested it yet since it rode home in the back of the truck and needs to acclimate to room temp before testing. DB Young coming in 2000: nothingtodo.org ! --> this message printed on recycled disk space view the computers of yesteryear at http://members.aol.com/suprdave/classiccmp/museum.htm (now accepting donations!) From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Dec 23 12:04:17 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: The Computerist's Video Plus board In-Reply-To: <003901bf396f$f572d580$013da8c0@Corellian> Message-ID: <199912231705.SAA04655@mail2.siemens.de> > I just dug out an old single board computer which was made by a company > called "The Computerist" which is called a "Video Plus", probably around > 1981-82. Its a 6502 based board with the same form factor as the Kim-1 and > I believe the same pin outs on the two 44 pin edge connectors. It has some > 6522 vias and some video signal generating chip, a composite video output, > sockets for eprom, four 2114 ram, etc. > Does anybody have documentation on this board? I lost mine years ago when > I sold off my old KIM-1 stuff :-( and would like to resurrect this board. > Its in very good shape, but is missing some socketed chips. Need docs > though to get anywhere. Sorry for the delay, I'm just sorting out a bit the old stuff from the list ... Yes, I have a new, original packed Video plus board, including all docs. If you like I can give you a copy op all material. The Video Plus could Either run as Video Board on all KIM compatible busses, or, when adding a 6502 in an empty socket as a system on it's own. Servus Hans -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 23 13:16:01 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: MicroVAX 3 Question In-Reply-To: <3861DA2E.A47B0891@softstar.it> from "Enrico Badella" at Dec 23, 99 09:15:42 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 799 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991223/3174130d/attachment.ksh From jdykstra at nortelnetworks.com Thu Dec 23 15:54:14 1999 From: jdykstra at nortelnetworks.com (John Dykstra) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: IBM 360 and 370 control panels available Message-ID: Data Sales in Savage, Minnesota has a number of 360 and 370 control panels available. During my search this morning, I found panels from several Model 30's, a Model 25, a Model 44 and a Model 65. They also have a number of 370 panels, although I can't quote models--those machines are after my time :-) Condition varies widely--email me for what I remember about a particular panel. Contact info: Jim Breckner, site manager, (612) 890-9047, . Please mention my name if you contact them--I would like to go back and take some photos of other IBM gear they've got, and they're more likely to tolerate the inconvenience if I'm bringing them some business. Other than that, I have no relationship to these people. NOTE--These panels are from machines that have already been scrapped, many more than two decades ago. I too would have liked to see these machines in running condition, but given their size, power and air conditioning requirements, etc., I doubt that there would have been very many takers. Does anyone know of any intact and running System 360's? How about System 370's? ---- John Dykstra jdykstra@nortelnetworks.com Principal Software Architect voice: +1 651 415-1604 Nortel Networks fax: +1 612 932-8549 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991223/86740b7e/attachment.html From dylanb at sympatico.ca Thu Dec 23 14:56:29 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: IBM 360 and 370 control panels available Message-ID: <004c01bf4d88$2f3114e0$2e29d1d8@default> "NOTE--These panels are from machines that have already been scrapped, many more than two decades ago. I too would have liked to see these machines in running condition, but given their size, power and air conditioning requirements, etc., I doubt that there would have been very many takers." Your kidding me, right? I am partnering in with someone on this list to restore/sell the next 360 I get and I and my partner have received *very* serious offers. Please e-mail if you ever find any 360/1401 parts. I am sure to need them. john http://www.pdp8.com/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991223/5bc2ac45/attachment.html From wsmith at gj.com Thu Dec 23 16:08:02 1999 From: wsmith at gj.com (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: Old IBM Manuals Message-ID: I just came across fairly clean photocopies of a few old IBM manuals. They are: IBM Electronic Statistical Machine Type 101 - Preliminay Manual of Information (1949) 70 pgs. IBM Electronic Statistical Machine Type 101 - Principles of Operation (third rev. 1949, 1953) 90 pgs. IBM Electric Punched Card Accounting Machines - Principles of Operation - Automatic Summary Punches (1946) 25 pgs. IBM 513, 514 Reproducing Punches - General Information Manual (1945, 1958) 30 pgs. If anyone is interested in copies at cost (.03/pg.; $6.50 total) + postage, and is willing to indemnify me on the copyright issue :-), let me know. -W From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Thu Dec 23 16:15:19 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: Old IBM Manuals Message-ID: <19991223221519.8512.qmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> --- Wayne Smith wrote: > I just came across fairly clean photocopies of a few old IBM manuals. They > are: > > IBM Electric Punched Card Accounting Machines - Principles of Operation - > Automatic Summary Punches (1946) 25 pgs... Too old for what I need. I _am_ looking for service manuals related to the IBM 026 card punch. I have one that needs some attention. Thanks, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 23 13:01:02 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: NCD 88K? In-Reply-To: References: <19991222204649.3887.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991223130102.3de74b34@mailhost.intellistar.net> I've seen those before. I was told that they're X-terminals. They usually have lots of memory in them but all the memory is usually pulled out before we got them That's all I know about them Joe At 12:02 AM 12/23/99 -0800, you wrote: >A bunch of terminal looking things came into a scrap yard this week, and >very little makes sense about them. The boxes have Motorola 88100 20 mhz >chips in them, but I don't remember any floppy or hard drives. The monitors >are 5 BNC connections with the name NCD on them (some 17" some about 20") >and on the back the manufacturer is listed as something like INY. Any ideas >what they are? Network connection is selectible 10b2 or AUI. > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 23 15:40:01 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: Info wanted: Wilson Laboratories TX-1200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991223154001.507f8c12@mailhost.intellistar.net> Does anyone know exactly what this is? It appears to be some kind of a tape drive tester. It has switches for 7 vs 9 track, PE vs NRZ, single or dual gap, six different block sizes, six different speeds, FWD and REV and lots of test points and status indicators. I picked it up in a load of stuff from NASA (first picture). It has three ribbon cables that terminate with sockets for card edge connectors. One is marked "Read", one is marked "Write" and the other is marked "Control" (fourth picture). Here are some pictures: "www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/tapecase.jpg", "www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/tape-opn.jpg", "www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/tape-rt2.jpg", "www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/tapeconn.jpg", "www.intellistar.net/~rigdonj/misc/tapetst2.jpg". Thanks for your help. Joe From aek at spies.com Thu Dec 23 17:44:40 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: Info wanted: Wilson Laboratories TX-1200 Message-ID: <199912232344.PAA30882@spies.com> it's a 7 or 9 track tape drive exerciser for ampex, kennedy, or pertec (unformatted) drives. the three cable style drives were pretty common and were an alternative to 'pertec formatted' two cable interfaces. From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Thu Dec 23 17:52:08 1999 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: To anybody & everybody who needs 8" & 5.25" floppy disks. Message-ID: <19991223235208.89330.qmail@hotmail.com> A recent trip to an office supply store turned up boxes of 8" & 5.25" floppy disks. Two of the 8" disk boxes (original IBM!) are opened, one is almost full, the other only has 1 disk in it. There are also 4 or 5 other boxes of disks (3M) that are *still factory sealed* They also have many boxes of 5.25" floppies, some are opened, & come in a variety of different manufacturers. Here is the Phone #, E-mail, & address of the store where I found them: Address: Hengst Printing & Supplies 155 West Travis La Grange, Texas 78945 Phone Number: 1-800-468-1270 E-mail: Graphtex@aol.com Better act fast! Because when the disks are gone, they are gone! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 23 18:11:00 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: An odd request... In-Reply-To: <008601bf4d50$21366a80$560464cb@default> Message-ID: > That is an easy one from here. Zardax was written by a company called > Computer Solutions, located in Mt Gravatt, a suburb of Brisbane, Australia - > about 15 minutes drive from where I live. > I have the full manual and disks if anyone needs a copy. I have checked > through the manual, and like most software of the time, there does not seem > to be an "export" or equivalent function. I could check out the disk format > over the Xmas break if you still need help on this. A common feature in word processing programs in those days was "Print to a file" (since printers were expensive, and not everybody had one). Use of "Print to a file" permitted the user to go through the formatting processes of printing, and produce a file that could be sneaker-net'd to another machine for copying to a printer. If you configure the program to think that it is going to print to a DUMB printer (no f9onts, no graphics, etc.), then the resulting file is typically very close to plain text. Previous posts mentioned high bit being set on some characters. That is the most obvious characteristic of a WordStar "document" file. Many word processors that have the capability of importing a WordStar file can handle that. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 23 18:21:27 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: Info wanted: Wilson Laboratories TX-1200 In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991223154001.507f8c12@mailhost.intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Dec 23, 99 03:40:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 926 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991224/fb48b4a9/attachment.ksh From Glenatacme at aol.com Thu Dec 23 22:31:35 1999 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: dumb Message-ID: <0.c8901ed1.25945127@aol.com> I guess in my old age I've gotten a bit slow on the uptake. Can any of you Ebay pros tell me what this means? http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=223611784 For those without a browser, this Ebay auction item, under the heading Computers - Vintage, consists of one word (pointy brackets are mine) dumb First bid: $50 Number of bids: 0 Thanks in advance to anyone who can help. Glen Goodwin 0/0 From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Dec 23 22:42:17 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991223204058.00b62e10@mcmanis.com> As we wind down to the end of the year, I wish everyone good health, good hunting, and good deals! --Chuck From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Thu Dec 23 22:44:12 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: dumb In-Reply-To: <0.c8901ed1.25945127@aol.com> Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991223204258.01a72e90@mcmanis.com> At 11:31 PM 12/23/99 -0500, you wrote: >Can any of you Ebay pros tell me what this means? It means that the silly Ebay user filled out the forms for an auction and set it start even though there was nothing to sell. Now they are going to have to explain to Ebay why they shouldn't be charged the $0.25 listing fee... --Chuck From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Thu Dec 23 22:53:58 1999 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: OT: Need PC MB help! Message-ID: DAMN DAMN DAMN! I'm putting together a PC for my nephew. Everything is going fine, then KAPOW! A power transistor on the motherboard blows. I have no idea why. All I know is the last thing I inserted before it blew is the cache RAM DIMM thingy that goes next to the Pentium processor (at least that's what I think it is). Anyway, I have a bad pentium MB that I'd like to use for parts. The transistor that blew is HB1084 5C (what is that?) The one on the salvage MB is D45H2A. Are they compatible? I'm hoping one of you electronics gurus can help me out. I have to get this system rady cuz Santa's got to deliver it tomorrow. Any help will be greatly appreciated and will be rewarded with amazing amounts of karma!! Please reply to sellam@siconic.com. Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF East? VCF Europe!? YOU BETCHA!! Stay tuned for more information or contact me to find out how you can participate http://www.vintage.org From marvin at rain.org Thu Dec 23 23:54:02 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: dumb References: <4.2.0.58.19991223204258.01a72e90@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <38630A7A.162C6004@rain.org> Chuck McManis wrote: > > At 11:31 PM 12/23/99 -0500, you wrote: > >Can any of you Ebay pros tell me what this means? > > It means that the silly Ebay user filled out the forms for an auction and > set it start even though there was nothing to sell. Now they are going to > have to explain to Ebay why they shouldn't be charged the $0.25 listing fee... Actually the $2.00 listing fee for a $50.00 opening bid. From enrico.badella at softstar.it Fri Dec 24 02:06:02 1999 From: enrico.badella at softstar.it (Enrico Badella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: IBM 360 and 370 control panels available References: Message-ID: <3863296A.D99CBB7@softstar.it> > John Dykstra wrote: > > Does anyone know of any intact and running System 360's? How about System > 370's? I have a complete 4381, just relocated and will start working to put it back together with Internet access e. ======================================================================== Enrico Badella email: enrico.badella@softstar.it Soft*Star srl eb@vax.cnuce.cnr.it InterNetworking Specialists tel: +39-011-746092 Via Camburzano 9 fax: +39-011-746487 10143 Torino, Italy Wanted, for hobbyist use, any type of PDP and microVAX hardware,software, manuals,schematics,etc. and DEC-10 docs or manuals ========================================================================== From mikeford at socal.rr.com Fri Dec 24 01:42:40 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: dumb In-Reply-To: <0.c8901ed1.25945127@aol.com> Message-ID: >I guess in my old age I've gotten a bit slow on the uptake. > >Can any of you Ebay pros tell me what this means? > >http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=223611784 > >For those without a browser, this Ebay auction item, under the heading >Computers - Vintage, consists of one word (pointy brackets are mine) > > > >dumb > > > >First bid: $50 >Number of bids: 0 > >Thanks in advance to anyone who can help. > >Glen Goodwin >0/0 Thats the software for a dumb terminal. . . . . . . . A joke ok, its just a joke. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 24 10:05:43 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: OT NT 3.51 In-Reply-To: <3863296A.D99CBB7@softstar.it> Message-ID: <199912241506.QAA05549@mail2.siemens.de> Well, according to the rules 3.51 is OT, acording to MS it's already vintage. So, has anyone a defragmeter utility for NTFS that is able to run on a 3.51 system ? Gruss H. BTW: happy Hollydays -- Traue keinem Menschen der 5 Tage blutet und immer noch nicht tod ist. From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Dec 24 08:42:51 1999 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: OT: Need PC MB help! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991224084251.010cc310@pc> At 08:53 PM 12/23/99 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >Anyway, I have a bad pentium MB that I'd like to use for parts. The >transistor that blew is HB1084 5C (what is that?) The one on the salvage >MB is D45H2A. Are they compatible? >I'm hoping one of you electronics gurus can help me out. I have to get >this system rady cuz Santa's got to deliver it tomorrow. I called Santa's workshop, and they said it would be easier to get the nephew a cheap Celeron motherboard from any ol' computer shop in your well-stocked neighborhood, and fix the other MB some other day. Something went wrong to blow the transistor. The transistor became a fuse. Replacing the transistor doesn't fix the problem. When the second transistor blows, you will receive enlightenment. - John From edick at idcomm.com Fri Dec 24 10:55:02 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: OT: Need PC MB help! Message-ID: <001e01bf4e2f$a14bebc0$0400c0a8@winbook> It's quite possible that the cache supply voltage and the main memory supply voltage were set to different values while the board didn't know that and hooked them together. I did that about 5 years back. That same mobo used a cache simm which could be plugged in backward. That wasn't good either. Trying to fix the thing will take a lot of time and won't yield results worth having. Best to follow the suggestions below. Dick -----Original Message----- From: John Foust To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 24, 1999 8:15 AM Subject: Re: OT: Need PC MB help! >At 08:53 PM 12/23/99 -0800, Sellam Ismail wrote: >>Anyway, I have a bad pentium MB that I'd like to use for parts. The >>transistor that blew is HB1084 5C (what is that?) The one on the salvage >>MB is D45H2A. Are they compatible? >>I'm hoping one of you electronics gurus can help me out. I have to get >>this system rady cuz Santa's got to deliver it tomorrow. > >I called Santa's workshop, and they said it would be easier to >get the nephew a cheap Celeron motherboard from any ol' computer >shop in your well-stocked neighborhood, and fix the other MB some >other day. > >Something went wrong to blow the transistor. The transistor became >a fuse. Replacing the transistor doesn't fix the problem. When the >second transistor blows, you will receive enlightenment. > >- John > From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 24 12:05:37 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:25 2005 Subject: An odd request... In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991220181941.00929100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> Message-ID: <199912241706.SAA16662@mail2.siemens.de> > This one's for the Apple gurus on the list: Is it at all possible, through > hardware, software, or 'other,' to read 5.25" floppies written on an Apple > IIe on a PC? The simpliest way would be just a vintage A2 with SSC and just transfer the files. The best ways, especialy when you't may need it more than just once, or you're missing time to setup, buy a Diamond Trackstar Emulator board. Thats a complete A2e on a 8 Bit PC card. And an original drive, connected to the Trackstar. Ahhz still has them at an acceptable price, especialy when you'd use it professional. Together with a second CRT you're geting a real cute PC plus Apple System. Check http://www.ahhz.com/docs/ecs039.htm Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 24 12:09:22 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: Looking for...MSDOS OEM Adaptation Kit In-Reply-To: <001a01bf4c0e$74e3c300$01c8a8c0@office1> Message-ID: <199912241710.SAA17071@mail2.siemens.de> > I'm experienting with an x86-based hobby robotics controller, but I'd like > to graft certain functionality onto old MSDOS (don't ask why), including a > ROM monitor, etc. > I remember that MS carried a special version of MSDOS for people who need to > modify the code for specific hardware. Certain portions of DOS are provided > as source and the rest as object code. > Does anyone have a copy of this? Nop, but there's a russian DOS clone, incooperating most needed stuff, and it is supplied completely in source - I just can't remember the name. I have a copy at home ... I'll check. Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 24 12:24:33 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991204210839.00955100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19991204232649.009a3e40@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <199912241725.SAA18411@mail2.siemens.de> > Save the LARTs for someone really deserving. Just for the menataly (or it that abrevationaly) challenged among us, whtat the heck is a LART ? I know about the BART .... Servus Hans -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Dec 24 12:18:47 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT NT 3.51 In-Reply-To: <199912241506.QAA05549@mail2.siemens.de> References: <3863296A.D99CBB7@softstar.it> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991224101847.0092c250@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 16:06 24-12-1999 +1, you wrote: >Well, according to the rules 3.51 is OT, acording to MS it's already vintage. It was published less than ten years ago. By that criteria (which is what the list uses), it has yet to become "classic." However, in the interests of derailing a potentially long thread... 'DiskKeeper' from Executive Software can handle any NTFS partition. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Fri Dec 24 12:22:15 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ In-Reply-To: <199912241725.SAA18411@mail2.siemens.de> References: <3.0.5.32.19991204210839.00955100@mail.bluefeathertech.com> <3.0.1.32.19991204232649.009a3e40@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991224102215.00927c20@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 18:25 24-12-1999 +1, you wrote: >> Save the LARTs for someone really deserving. > >Just for the menataly (or it that abrevationaly) challenged among us, >whtat the heck is a LART ? I know about the BART .... Ah, sorry. LART = (L)user Attitude Readjustment Tool. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From mee at deep.lai.phkk.fi Fri Dec 24 12:57:30 1999 From: mee at deep.lai.phkk.fi (Ilkka Pylkkanen) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: IBM system 36 Message-ID: I like to know what processor is on IBM system 36 (5363) and maximum memory capasity. Other information is also welcome. Tnx From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Fri Dec 24 13:11:12 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: PDP-10 Freeware Archive now has correct date stamps listed Message-ID: <991224141112.24600bef@trailing-edge.com> It only took a little bit of effort (notably abandoning the Unix date/time stamp, which doesn't go before 1-Jan-1970 UTC, and switching to a system without so much lossage) to get the date stamps on the PDP-10 freeware archive entries at http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/ to be correct. Now, if you go and look at a directory in the TOPS-10 or TOPS-20 categories, you will see the original date/time stamps as on the DECUS library tapes. Take a look at http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/www/lib10/0003/ for an example. Thanks to a couple of old-timers who persuaded me that I really shouldn't list the creation dates on these files as being 1999, when this can be off by over thirty years :-) Enjoy! -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From jdykstra at nortelnetworks.com Fri Dec 24 13:11:28 1999 From: jdykstra at nortelnetworks.com (John Dykstra) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: IBM 360 and 370 control panels available Message-ID: On Thursday, December 23, 1999 2:56 PM, John B [SMTP:dylanb@sympatico.ca] wrote: > "NOTE--These panels are from machines that have already been scrapped, many > more than two decades ago. I too would have liked to see these machines in > running condition, but given their size, power and air conditioning > requirements, etc., I doubt that there would have been very many takers." > > Your kidding me, right? I am partnering in with someone on this list to > restore/sell the next 360 I get and I and my partner have received *very* > serious offers. Please e-mail if you ever find any 360/1401 parts. I am sure > to need them. Then contact Data Sales at the address I gave in the previous email. They have two warehouses in Minnesota and one in Arizona filled with salvaged IBM parts. There are obviously vastly different levels of resources available to those who make a successful business out of vintage computers. My comment was aimed at hobbyists, who still make up the heart of this community. See for Data Sale's photo of some 300 "headers" from 360/370 machines that they have scrapped. It's clear that plenty of 360 machines have become available over the years--my guess is that the lack of running personal 360's indicates that the obstacles are significant for most people. I hope you are recovering from your injuries. Have a good holiday season. -- John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991224/914eba28/attachment.html From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 24 13:04:13 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ In-Reply-To: <199912241725.SAA18411@mail2.siemens.de> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 24, 99 06:25:33 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 883 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991224/248b6495/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 24 12:44:55 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT: Need PC MB help! In-Reply-To: from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 23, 99 08:53:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1200 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991224/60d724d2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 24 12:29:38 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: dumb In-Reply-To: <0.c8901ed1.25945127@aol.com> from "Glenatacme@aol.com" at Dec 23, 99 11:31:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 355 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991224/76d2c740/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 24 13:00:16 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: Looking for...MSDOS OEM Adaptation Kit In-Reply-To: <199912241710.SAA17071@mail2.siemens.de> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 24, 99 06:10:22 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 475 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991224/d64c41a1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 24 12:34:34 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.19991223204058.00b62e10@mcmanis.com> from "Chuck McManis" at Dec 23, 99 08:42:17 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 726 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991224/71fdb4aa/attachment.ksh From cmcmanis at mcmanis.com Fri Dec 24 13:53:41 1999 From: cmcmanis at mcmanis.com (Chuck McManis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: IBM 360 and 370 control panels available In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.19991224115205.01b7ca00@mcmanis.com> At 01:11 PM 12/24/99 -0600, John wrote: >There are obviously vastly different levels of resources available to >those who make a successful business out of vintage computers. My comment >was aimed at hobbyists, who still make up the heart of this community. > >See ><http://c >gi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=221488360> for Data Sale's >photo of some 300 "headers" from 360/370 machines that they have >scrapped. It's clear that plenty of 360 machines have become available >over the years--my guess is that the lack of running personal 360's >indicates that the obstacles are significant for most people. Well if these guys expect to get $75 for the metal strip from the top of a front panel I don't think I can afford their actual front panels. I'm guessing they want between $600 and $1000 for them right? --Chuck From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 24 14:30:40 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: dumb In-Reply-To: References: <0.c8901ed1.25945127@aol.com> from "Glenatacme@aol.com" at Dec 23, 99 11:31:35 pm Message-ID: >[...] > >> For those without a browser, this Ebay auction item, under the heading >> Computers - Vintage, consists of one word (pointy brackets are mine) >> >> >> >> dumb > >Well, it's either a dumb terminal or a very apt description of the person >who stuck this item on E-bay. Probably the latter. I thought it was the persons erudite assessment of eBay. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jpero at cgocable.net Fri Dec 24 10:16:47 1999 From: jpero at cgocable.net (jpero@cgocable.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT: Need PC MB help! In-Reply-To: References: from "Sellam Ismail" at Dec 23, 99 08:53:58 pm Message-ID: <199912242115.dBOLFBj28735@admin.cgocable.net> > Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1999 18:44:55 +0000 (GMT) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: OT: Need PC MB help! Hi Tony, > Towers lists a D45H2 as a PNP power transistor, Vce=30V, Ic=10A. Of > course that's the one you could measure the parameters of, since it's > still good. I can't fid any HB numbers in Towers -- are you sure it's a > transistor and not a 3-terminal regulator, for example. Maybe you could > trace out a little of the circuit around this transistor to see just how > it's used. That's what it is. Transistor(s) acting as "regulator" controlled by microampere regulator like Astec '431 in a TO-92 (ie found on pcchips boards), or usually by (usually national semi.) 2951 IC. That D45H2 explains the 10A rated. P5 cpus draws about 3A or less for sub 100mhz, 100 < 150 is about 3A to 4A, 166 and 200 is about 4.25A and 4.6A. Don't forget: chipset, cache draws on this 3.3V current as well. But! Linear regulators are inefficient at channeling from 5V to 3.3V, very often mounted on too *small* heatsinks or in poor or stragent airflow. That is why they run hot enough to make one's fingers jerk out with a owch! I have swapped or robbed other boards for good power transistors in that design about 10-15 times. That is very common occurance. They just simply blow for no reason. If a chip is really bad it will heat up like crazy but not that sudden death in linear regulator except if it's really aged and on the edge and adding that cache stick pushed it over. And failure mode is shorted and externally usually no sign of failure like holes or smells. This is why m-board makers have since converted to switching inductor regulator design for reliablity and more current capacity around '95-96. Very little heat, most of heat if any is from coils. Failure very rare in my experience regarding those switcher regulator even in cheapo boards. (!!) PSUs in laptops used same idea and often mosfet and like doesn't have any heatsinks at all or just very modest one. Look into notebooks, pii/piii/athlon/ss7 boards for that examples. Wizard > -tony From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Dec 24 15:22:56 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: This guy needs a *LART*... :-/ Message-ID: <19991224212256.10824.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bruce Lane wrote: > At 18:25 24-12-1999 +1, you wrote: > > >> Save the LARTs for someone really deserving. > > > >Just for the menataly (or it that abrevationaly) challenged among us, > >what the heck is a LART ? I know about the BART .... > > Ah, sorry. LART = (L)user Attitude Readjustment Tool. At McMurdo, we had the "Network Tutor", a square-cut 24"-long, hunk of hardwood with a rough handle that was designed to beat the black snowy crud off the bottoms of trucks before driving on the pristine white snow road to the airfield (since the black crud would absorb solar radiation and melt potholes). When ever a Luser would call with a particularly inane question (it had to be a _good_ one, mind you), we would suggest to the dispatching technician that perhaps some Network Tutoring was in order. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Dec 24 15:26:54 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: New find: RCA Studio II Message-ID: <19991224212654.11263.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> Today I finally picked up a device I've been searching for since I was a lad - an RCA Studio II home video game. It is especially precious to me because it uses the RCA 1802 processor (and the 1861 video chip). Does anyone out there have any pointers to internals information? I'd love to pull the ROM and disassemble the code, but with no idea of which I/O port the video is on nor how the game controllers are interfaced, it makes reverse engineering the code more difficult (of course, knowing what the code does can make reverse engineering the *hardware* much easier ;-) I'm also interested in picking up any game cartridges for this thing. I've seen a few, here and there on the web. I can probably find some with Altavista, but I thought I'd check here first. Enjoy, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Dec 24 15:49:26 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: More on the RCA Studio II Message-ID: <19991224214926.24749.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> I know it's bad form to reply to your own posts, but here it is. --- Ethan Dicks wrote: > > Today I finally picked up an RCA Studio II home video game... > ...it uses the RCA 1802 processor (and the 1861 video chip). > > Does anyone out there have any pointers to internals information? I just opened it up... some previous owner has scrawled lots of notes in pencil about what does what. Address lines labelled, component symbols (on the solder side), memory address ranges, controller key numbers... Lots of good info. The board itself resembles the Quest Elf in its layout style - lots of room and waves of curved, parallel traces. Outside of the RF cage are the CDP1802CE, an RCA TA10171V1 (the video chip), four 1822 256x4 SRAMs ($0800 - $09FF), four 1831 ROMs (512 bytes each) [$0000 - $07FF] and the glue logic: one 4042, one 4001 and one 4515 (which I think is the latch for the game controllers). The timing and power section is a 555 and a 7805, pretty pedestrian stuff. The date codes suggest a timeframe of 1Q77. The ROM carts use a .154"-spacing single-sided 22-pin connector, so RatShack has boards I can use to make my own. It's just stunning to open this up and have this kind of documentation in place. The 1802 is a simple beast. This guy obviously did what I was going to do - start with the known CPU signals and work out. What I _wasn't_ planning on doing was marking up the original. I'm glad he did. One odd thing about this design - DC power come into the RF switchbox that clamps to the TV. There is a single RCA cable that connects the switchbox and the game unit. It appears as if power goes one way down the cable and video data goes the other way. Strange. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 24 16:26:23 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: More on the RCA Studio II In-Reply-To: <19991224214926.24749.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 24, 99 01:49:26 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1298 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991224/d1f4b848/attachment.ksh From mcguire at neurotica.com Fri Dec 24 19:10:37 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: pdp8/11 console cable pinouts References: <991224141112.24600bef@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: <99122420132209.19357@vault.neurotica.com> Hey folks. First of all, happy holidays to all! You're a great gang to hang out with, and I've very much enjoyed being on this list for the past few months. Now, for a question. I could go dig this info up myself but it'd take me hours. Here, I'll bet someone knows off the top of his/her head. Are the pinouts for the pdp8's KL8-JA serial board compatible enough with those of the DL11-W, such that I might use the same cable for either? I'm thinking about assembling & bringing up a pdp8/e tonight...the first pdp8 in my new house! :-) Thanks, -Dave McGuire From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 24 19:20:40 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: pdp8/11 console cable pinouts In-Reply-To: <99122420132209.19357@vault.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Dec 24, 99 08:10:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 730 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991225/1ae3e625/attachment.ksh From jhfine at idirect.com Fri Dec 24 19:29:08 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: Help with CQD 220A/TM Message-ID: <38641DE4.3CF4B94F@idirect.com> Does anyone know or know where I can find the Dip switch settings for this host adapter? I have a friend who needs some help. The last time he tried: http://www.cmd.com/ he was able to get the Dip switch settings, but now they seem to restrict the site to specific users. Can anyone help? From Glenatacme at aol.com Fri Dec 24 21:15:01 1999 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays Message-ID: <0.15d31342.259590b5@aol.com> In a message dated 12/24/1999 2:39:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > The new millennium starts on 01/01/2001. Right on! Glen 0/0 From truthanl at oclc.org Fri Dec 24 22:21:23 1999 From: truthanl at oclc.org (Truthan,Larry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: DCC D- 116 paper tapes Message-ID: <3DF3710809BCD0119DF90000F84009D1016EAE74@oa2-server.dev.oclc.org> I discovered several D116 paper tapes in my garage with original labels. I was wondering whether there was a way I could attemp to read them manually. The tape has 8 bit positions. Three hole positions, tractor drive perf line, and then 5 more hole positions. All the tapes I have appear to be Octal debug, extended debug, ALU exerciser, Mag Tape Diag. D116 Loader and DG Loader. Is DG format different than D116 Format? Most interesting handwritten label is something called "Twiddle" I think it is a sample program or a front panel light excerciser. Any Help with decoding Digital Computer Controls D116 Code on Paper Tape? I have a D116 and the Paper tape reader, but nothing on it's assembly code Or D116 programming. Asre there any D116 site out there?? From musicman38 at mindspring.com Fri Dec 24 22:38:17 1999 From: musicman38 at mindspring.com (Phil Clayton) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: New find: RCA Studio II Message-ID: <004301bf4e91$df461600$53978ad1@home> >Does anyone out there have any pointers to internals information? I'd love >to pull the ROM and disassemble the code, but with no idea of which I/O >port the video is on nor how the game controllers are interfaced, it makes >reverse engineering the code more difficult (of course, knowing what the code >does can make reverse engineering the *hardware* much easier ;-) You are in luck. I am a collector of old video games, and the RCA Studio II is by far my most favorite. I have one in mint condition still in the original box. Also another one that I have modified for various projects. BTW: I have the schematics for the machine. This machine has some very interesting history, and I have complied 20 pages on it. What I thought what you may be interested in is that in 1978 I purchased plans on how to turn this game machine into a working fully programmable computer, in 1802 machine/assembly language. The only thing required is to burn an EPROM and mount it on a circuit board that plugs into the game slot on the RCA. Essentially you have a cartridge that you plug in and the machine becomes a programmable computer almost exactly like the RCA Cosmac computer.. I have the complete diagrams and the instruction set for the EPROM you would need to burn. Also the basic schematics for the game unit itself.. The fact that the RCA Studio II has 2 keypads it makes it easy to type in your program and display the results on your television.. I modified mine the use a composite video monitor for better resolution.. Let me know if you are interested, and I will attempt to scan the diagrams for you.. Phil.. From dburrows at netpath.net Fri Dec 24 22:43:24 1999 From: dburrows at netpath.net (Daniel T. Burrows) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: Help with CQD 220A/TM Message-ID: <0bcc01bf4e92$ad6b10d0$a652e780@L166> I have the manual here. I will try to remember to scan the appropriate pages this weekend and will forward the URL. Don't be bashful to remind me if I forget. Is there anything in besides the switch settings you would like? Dan -----Original Message----- From: Jerome Fine To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 24, 1999 8:32 PM Subject: Help with CQD 220A/TM >Does anyone know or know where I can find the Dip >switch settings for this host adapter? I have a friend who >needs some help. The last time he tried: >http://www.cmd.com/ >he was able to get the Dip switch settings, but now they seem >to restrict the site to specific users. Can anyone help? From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Dec 24 22:49:45 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: More on the RCA Studio II Message-ID: <199912250449.XAA06304@world.std.com> --- Phil Clayton wrote: > >Does anyone out there have any pointers to internals information? > > You are in luck. I am a collector of old video games, and the RCA Studio II > is by far my most favorite. I've wanted one since I played with it at the local RatShack 21 years ago! > What I thought what you may be interested in is that in 1978 I purchased > plans on how to turn this game machine into a working fully programmable > computer... Yes! > Let me know if you are interested, and I will attempt to scan the diagrams > for you.. Please! Muchas Gracias, -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Dec 24 23:51:57 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: pdp8/11 console cable pinouts Message-ID: <19991225055157.6789.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > Now, for a question. I could go dig this info up myself but it'd take me > > hours. Here, I'll bet someone knows off the top of his/her head. Are the > > pinouts for the pdp8's KL8-JA serial board compatible enough with those of > > the DL11-W, such that I might use the same cable for either? > > Should be OK. Or at least I use an ex-PDP11 (DL11-E or DL11-W) serial > cable with the M7655 cards in my PDP8/e. The M7650 seems to use the same > cable as well. As do some other DEC serial cards (DUP11?, for example). My research confirms the above as well, for what it's worth. (i.e., me, too) -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sat Dec 25 00:06:43 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays In-Reply-To: <0.15d31342.259590b5@aol.com> Message-ID: >In a message dated 12/24/1999 2:39:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, >ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > >> The new millennium starts on 01/01/2001. > >Right on! Maybe so, but the party "starts" next weekend. :=) From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Dec 25 00:18:20 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays Message-ID: <19991225061820.26394.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> --- Mike Ford wrote: > >In a message dated 12/24/1999 2:39:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, > >ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > > > >> The new millennium starts on 01/01/2001. > > > >Right on! > > Maybe so, but the party "starts" next weekend. :=) Ah, yes, but I'm going to somebody else's house to drink _their_ fancy booze and eat their fancy food (sushi, yum!) next week. My party is *next* year. Maybe we'll show Stanley Kubrik's movie to get the party rolling. ;-) -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Dec 25 00:22:51 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: IBM system 36 In-Reply-To: (message from Ilkka Pylkkanen on Fri, 24 Dec 1999 20:57:30 +0200 References: Message-ID: <19991225062251.10497.qmail@brouhaha.com> > I like to know what processor is on IBM system 36 (5363) The 5363 *is* the processor. From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Dec 25 06:30:52 1999 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.0.58.19991223204058.00b62e10@mcmanis.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991225073052.007b5100@mail.wincom.net> At 06:34 PM 12/24/1999 +0000, you wrote: >> >> As we wind down to the end of the year, I wish everyone good health, good >> hunting, and good deals! > >At the risk of continuing an off-topic thead : > >Merry Christmas/Newtonsday [1]/Halloween [2]/Midwinter/whatever else you >celebrate at this time of year to all members of classiccmp and their >families. May 2000 [3] bring forth even more classic computer rescues and >restorations !. > >[1] Sir Isaac Newton was born 25th December 1642 >[2] Well, Oct(al) 31 = Dec(imal) 25, doesn't it :-). >[3] If anyone wishes me a 'happy new millennium' this year they will be >on the wrong end of a LART. The year 2000 is the last year of the 20th >century (and the 2nd millennium). The new millennium starts on 01/01/2001. > >-tony > Hey, Tony, I thought all computer types counted 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9! Cheers Charlie Fox Besides, it is a good excuse to have two big parties instead of one. Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Dec 25 09:08:29 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: Help with CQD 220A/TM References: <0bcc01bf4e92$ad6b10d0$a652e780@L166> Message-ID: <3864DDEC.C6C1C089@idirect.com> >Daniel T. Burrows wrote: > I have the manual here. I will try to remember to scan the appropriate > pages this weekend and will forward the URL. Don't be bashful to remind me > if I forget. > Is there anything in besides the switch settings you would like? > Dan Jerome Fine replies: Many thanks to everyone who replied. I still get the "Username and Password Required" demand for: http://www.cmd.com/ and for: http://www.cmd.com/SupportInfo.cfm?ProdID=106 But, the following link do provide the switch settings: http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/220A223ASwitchSettings.pdf and http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/220A223AInstallGuide.pdf I find the whole thing sort of strange, but I do have the information I require. Thanks again. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 25 11:21:01 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays In-Reply-To: <0.15d31342.259590b5@aol.com> from "Glenatacme@aol.com" at Dec 24, 99 10:15:01 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 468 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991225/5f9ac942/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 25 11:23:05 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays In-Reply-To: from "Mike Ford" at Dec 24, 99 10:06:43 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 82 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991225/5cc399eb/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Dec 25 11:28:57 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991225073052.007b5100@mail.wincom.net> from "Charles E. Fox" at Dec 25, 99 07:30:52 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 923 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991225/ddb70e5a/attachment.ksh From Glenatacme at aol.com Sat Dec 25 12:21:33 1999 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays Message-ID: <0.53b52138.2596652d@aol.com> Tony Duell wrote: In a message dated 12/25/1999 12:55:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > This whole millennium mistake is actually very worrying. It shows how > easily the genneral public will accept false information without > bothering to check it, even when it's easy to verify. One wonders how > many other lies are doing the rounds. You don't have to wonder any more -- there are hundreds of them. Usenet groups are packed solid with the most outrageous (to an informed and logical mind) proposals, especially in the fields of health and medicine. I was recently forwarded an advert for a "cellular phone screen" to be worn over the listening ear when talking over a cel phone. This item claims to "block harmful electromagnetic radiation from entering the brain through the ear canal." Too bad someone hasn't developed a device to block harmful garbage from entering the brain throught the same orifice ;>) My own wife (poor dear) is convinced (due to "information" from the 'net) that aspartame is actually more injurious to one's health than sugar and causes everything from MS to epilepsy. To check out a few of the more innocuous rumors and cuckoo-bird ideas go to http://urbanlegends.miningco.com/culture/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm Apologies to the group for the OT. Glen Goodwin 0/0 From jdykstra at nortelnetworks.com Sat Dec 25 13:21:56 1999 From: jdykstra at nortelnetworks.com (John Dykstra) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: IBM 360 and 370 control panels available Message-ID: On Friday, December 24, 1999 1:54 PM, Chuck McManis [SMTP:cmcmanis@mcmanis.com] wrote: > Well if these guys expect to get $75 for the metal strip from the top of a > front panel I don't think I can afford their actual front panels. I'm > guessing they want between $600 and $1000 for them right? I know that they've sold panels in the past for considerably less. However, the price for any "collectable" is what the buyer and seller negotiate. That's why you need to contact Data Sales for asking prices, and then decide whether you want to make a counter-offer. They've been listing prices and minimum bids in their eBay offerings. However, you will note that few people are bidding on things, and Data Sales has a lot of "headers", TCM's, etc.. On the other hand, Jim at Data Sales is aware of the 360/50 control panel that sold on eBay for considerably more than $500, so that may raise his idea of what his inventory is worth. Note that I've very uncomfortable discussing prices like that for computer equipment. My motivation for acquiring what I've got is emotion (affection, nostalgia, respect for those 1960's engineers, etc.) and it feels icky (technical psychology term) to put dollar values on that. However, much of this stuff wouldn't exist if someone hadn't salvaged it, transported it, warehoused it, etc. I think that those people are entitled to reasonable compensation, and again, "reasonable" is defined by negotiation between buyer and seller. -- John -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991225/698f162f/attachment.html From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Dec 25 15:08:35 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: JVC color monitor Message-ID: <19991225210835.10280.qmail@web603.mail.yahoo.com> I have the chance to get thie following monitor... > JVC color monitor display -measures 18" diagonally > Model # GD-H422ous > 120V 60HZA 2.3A > Manufactured November, 1989 (older than we thought) > Serial # 16460054 Fortunately, it's local (no shipping ;-), but the other geeks in my area who know about it think it's CGA (I've never seen it, myself). Is there a way to get JVC model numbers translated these days? -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Dec 25 15:24:50 1999 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19991225073052.007b5100@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991225162450.007b0cb0@mail.wincom.net> At 05:28 PM 12/25/1999 +0000, you wrote: >> >century (and the 2nd millennium). The new millennium starts on 01/01/2001. >> > >> >-tony >> > >> Hey, Tony, I thought all computer types counted 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9! > >Indeed I do -- most of the time. Heck, I even once used '@' as a letter >zero (well, it comes immedidately before 'A' in the ASCII table) when >lettering the sections of a document. > >Had _I_ been designing a calendar, there would have been a year 0. And a >century 0. And a millennium 0. And, for that matter, a zeroth of every >month. We'd currently be in the 19th century (and at the end of the 1st >millennium). > >But that's not the calendar we all use. The 19th century ended on >31/12/1900, and the 20th centrury started on 01/01/1901. That's within >living memory (just). Now, if you can honestly justify a century of 99 >years, I'd love to know how. > >Celebrate the year 2000 if you want. But don't call it the start of the >next millennium. > >-tony > I'm willing to argue either side of this, and I have. When a child is born, or when you buy a new car the period starting from the birth or purchase (as the case may be) is part of its first year, and 365 (more or less) days later it is one year old. Its existence is not beginning at its first birthday, but at the beginning of its first year. Now what I would like some of you scientific types to explain to me is how folks living in the years 'BC' designated them. They couldn't say "this year is 45 BC'" because they didn't know when it was going to happen. I'm afraid I'm not quite old enough to remember. Regards Charlie Fox Charles E. Fox Chas E. Fox Video Productions 793 Argyle Rd. Windsor N8Y 3J8 Ont. Canada email foxvideo@wincom.net Homepage http://www.wincom.net/foxvideo From jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org Sat Dec 25 15:53:34 1999 From: jbdigriz at dragonsweb.org (James B. DiGriz) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: Looking for...MSDOS OEM Adaptation Kit References: <199912241710.SAA17071@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: <38653CDE.B17BC33A@dragonsweb.org> There is freeDOS at http://metalab.unc.edu/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/index.html. May not be the one you're referring to, but it is an open-source DOS replacement. jbdigriz Hans Franke wrote: > > > I'm experienting with an x86-based hobby robotics controller, but I'd like > > to graft certain functionality onto old MSDOS (don't ask why), including a > > ROM monitor, etc. > > > I remember that MS carried a special version of MSDOS for people who need to > > modify the code for specific hardware. Certain portions of DOS are provided > > as source and the rest as object code. > > > Does anyone have a copy of this? > > Nop, but there's a russian DOS clone, incooperating most needed stuff, > and it is supplied completely in source - I just can't remember the name. > I have a copy at home ... I'll check. > > Gruss > H. > > -- > Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ > Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ > Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ > Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut > HRK From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sat Dec 25 14:37:16 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays In-Reply-To: ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) "Re: OT: Happy Holidays" (Dec 25, 17:28) References: Message-ID: <9912252037.ZM19513@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 25, 17:28, Tony Duell wrote: > But that's not the calendar we all use. The 19th century ended on > 31/12/1900, and the 20th centrury started on 01/01/1901. That's within > living memory (just). Now, if you can honestly justify a century of 99 > years, I'd love to know how. > > Celebrate the year 2000 if you want. But don't call it the start of the > next millennium. The "official" line here is shown in the banner on the Royal Observatory Greenwich's page, amongst other places: "2000 is the Millennium Year. The New Millennium officially starts on 1 Jan 2001." I guess that's official speak for "We have to go along with the ignoramuses. However, we know they're wrong" :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From donm at cts.com Sat Dec 25 16:56:28 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Dec 1999, Tony Duell wrote: > > > > In a message dated 12/24/1999 2:39:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk writes: > > > > > The new millennium starts on 01/01/2001. > > > > Right on! > > I'm pleased to see I'm not the only one... > > This whole millennium mistake is actually very worrying. It shows how > easily the genneral public will accept false information without > bothering to check it, even when it's easy to verify. One wonders how > many other lies are doing the rounds. > > -tony > Then we should worry even more, Tony, as the book "The Century" by Peter Jennings and Todd Brewster, reports that their was a similar debate in 1900. I think that I would not want to place any heavy bets on the rest of the nn00/01 dates, either. - don From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 25 19:18:06 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: Help with CQD 220A/TM In-Reply-To: <3864DDEC.C6C1C089@idirect.com> References: <0bcc01bf4e92$ad6b10d0$a652e780@L166> Message-ID: Jerome Fine wrote: >Many thanks to everyone who replied. I still get the >"Username and Password Required" demand for: >http://www.cmd.com/ This is *really* weird, I'd followed a link to this earlier in the week and got through no problem, I just followed the same link which turns out to just be the above, and got the same result as you. This is *very* new, and disturbing. I don't have the boards, but I just grabed the two PDF's you provided URL's for. Zane >But, the following link do provide the switch settings: >http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/220A223ASwitchSettings.pdf >and >http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/220A223AInstallGuide.pdf | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com Sat Dec 25 19:21:56 1999 From: netsurfer_x1 at hotmail.com (David Vohs) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. Message-ID: <19991226012156.27058.qmail@hotmail.com> Here is a varied list of computers (and computer-related things) that were either famous or infamous for various reasons First, the infamous ones Computer with the worst built in hard drive: the ICT hard drive in the early models of the IBM-AT. Computer with the worst system architecture: TI-99/4A. (doubly interpreted BASIC? c'mon TI!) Computer with the worst keyboard: (tie) Sinclair ZX-81/Timex Sinclair 1000 & IBM PC Jr. Computer with the worst pitchman: Bill Cosby. (TI-99/4A) Computer with the most limitations: Timex Sinclair 1000/Sinclair ZX-81. Slowest computer: COM-X 35. Computer with the slowest disk drive: Commodore 64(C). Heaviest laptop computer: Apple Macintosh Portable. Most infamous computer by price: Apple Lisa. And now the famous ones Computer with the best keyboard: (tie) Commodore 64(C), & TRS-80 Model 12. Computer with the best speech synthesizer: TI-99/4A. Most famous "vaporware" computer: Xerox Alto. Computer with the best sound hardware: (tie) TI-99/4A & Commodore 64(C). Computer with the coolest pitchman: William Shatner. (VIC-20) Computer with the coolest case design: TI-99/4A. (The case reminds me of a Delorean. Remember those?) Computer with the best introductory commercial: Apple Macintosh. ("On January 24, Apple will introduce Macintosh. And you will see why 1984 won't be like "1984"".) This is all that I can think of. If you can add some more categories or correct some of the entries, please do so! After all, the above entries are only based on opinion (namely my own). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From aek at spies.com Sat Dec 25 19:35:55 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. Message-ID: <199912260135.RAA08070@spies.com> "Most famous "vaporware" computer: Xerox Alto." Excuse me? Exactly what part of the Alto was 'vaporware' (which implies to me a product, which the Alto was never intended to be) From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sat Dec 25 20:15:08 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. In-Reply-To: <19991226012156.27058.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991225181508.0092aec0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 01:21 26-12-1999 GMT, you wrote: >Here is a varied list of computers (and computer-related things) that were >either famous or infamous for various reasons > >First, the infamous ones >Computer with the worst keyboard: (tie) Sinclair ZX-81/Timex Sinclair 1000 & >IBM PC Jr. Debatable! The 'chiclet' keyboard on the Commodore PET was truly horrendous! >And now the famous ones > >Computer with the best keyboard: (tie) Commodore 64(C), & TRS-80 Model 12. Sorry, can't agree. Far as I'm concerned, NOTHING has yet beat the good ole' 101-key IBM PS/2 'clicker' for its sheer durability and fantastic tactile/audible feedback. >Computer with the best speech synthesizer: TI-99/4A. Dunno 'bout that... how about the Digitalker as used on some S-100 systems? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 25 20:27:22 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:26 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991225181508.0092aec0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> References: <19991226012156.27058.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >>Computer with the best keyboard: (tie) Commodore 64(C), & TRS-80 Model 12. > > Sorry, can't agree. Far as I'm concerned, NOTHING has yet beat the good >ole' 101-key IBM PS/2 'clicker' for its sheer durability and fantastic >tactile/audible feedback. That's a good one, I'm also pretty partial to the "Apple Extended Keyboard". Many of the old IBM keyboards are quite good, the one I've got on the old RS/6000 I have at work is excellent. Also the old Keytronic AT 101 keyboard Circa about 1991 is excellent. When I got my G4/450 in October, the *first* thing I did was toss that abomination they call a keyboard and mouse, and stick a ADB-to-USB converter on it and hook up my Apple Extended Keyboard II and Apple Desktop Bus Mouse II on it. On the PC side I've been using that Keytronic's keyboard since '91. I want a keyboard that has good wieght, doesn't flex when you pick it up, most new keyboards will twist so much it's rediculous, and the keys have a good 'feel' when pressed. Another important thing is the position of the backspace/delete key and return key. I use so many different keyboards that I can put up with just about any layout as long as these criteria have been met. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From a2k at one.net Sat Dec 25 21:34:25 1999 From: a2k at one.net (LordTyran) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. In-Reply-To: <19991226012156.27058.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Dec 1999, David Vohs wrote: > And now the famous ones > > Computer with the best keyboard: (tie) Commodore 64(C), & TRS-80 Model 12. Ever used a TRS-80 model 100? I think it has to make the best keyboard list somewhere.. at least for a laptop. > Computer with the best sound hardware: (tie) TI-99/4A & Commodore 64(C). *cough* Amiga? Its built-in sound hardware blew everything (including the C64) out of the water, at least in my oppinion. Hell, I still listen to MEDs on mine and am impressed ;) Kevin From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Dec 25 21:53:42 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. Message-ID: <199912260353.WAA25182@world.std.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19991225181508.0092aec0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> <19991226012156.27058.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: I ran a survey on a couple of the mac lists I am on, and to my surprize no clear winner emerged. Somebody liked every single model the best. The extended II is what I am typing on right now, and in "most" cases I like it about the best. Typically to test a keyboard I use it myself for a few days, so I have tried a LOT of different keyboards. This includes PC keyboards since my Starmax (mac clone) can use PC or mac keyboards and mice, both at the same time in fact. I may not know what the best keyboard is, but I do know the sure path to insanity, a real expensive keyboard, ie Apple Adjustable ergonomic thing that sells used for about $50, that has one slightly flakey key that you think maybe using for a couple days may sort out. From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Dec 25 22:28:45 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. Message-ID: <19991226042845.18021.qmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> --- Allison J Parent wrote: > < > > You forgot the commodore pet... another really baaddd one. Only the original static PET with the built-in tape drive. Later PETs had adequate keyboards. > You left out the terminals: > > Vt100 set a standard. > Vt220 advanced it. Agreed. I've always love the original VT100 keyboard since I first used one in 1984. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From healyzh at aracnet.com Sat Dec 25 22:37:50 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. In-Reply-To: <199912260353.WAA25182@world.std.com> Message-ID: Allison wrote: >You left out the terminals: > > Vt100 set a standard. > Vt220 advanced it. And the dual input VT420 perfected :^) What can I say, I love VT420's! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From jhfine at idirect.com Sat Dec 25 22:50:03 1999 From: jhfine at idirect.com (Jerome Fine) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Help with CQD 220A/TM References: <0bcc01bf4e92$ad6b10d0$a652e780@L166> Message-ID: <38659E7B.3EBB24E9@idirect.com> >Zane H. Healy wrote: > Jerome Fine wrote: > >Many thanks to everyone who replied. I still get the > >"Username and Password Required" demand for: > >http://www.cmd.com/ > This is *really* weird, I'd followed a link to this earlier in the week and > got through no problem, I just followed the same link which turns out to > just be the above, and got the same result as you. This is *very* new, and > disturbing. I don't have the boards, but I just grabed the two PDF's you > provided URL's for. Jerome Fine replies: It is VERY disturbing. Especially since this is a discontinued board. If someone is able to acquire the board and there is no documentation, then it becomes very difficult to find out how the board works. > >But, the following link do provide the switch settings: > >http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/220A223ASwitchSettings.pdf > >and > >http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/220A223AInstallGuide.pdf I would guess that the lock on the URL is unnecessary if the person knows the specific name of the manual. I suggest that anyone who has the files save them and perhaps archive them. Does anyone have the files for the CQD 220/TM - the original board? Also, the CQD 200/TM. I tried a number of different combinations such as: http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/220TMSwitchSettings.pdf without a hit. Sincerely yours, Jerome Fine From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sat Dec 25 22:54:29 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. Message-ID: <19991226045429.20923.qmail@web604.mail.yahoo.com> --- "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > Allison wrote: > >You left out the terminals: > > > > Vt100 set a standard. > > Vt220 advanced it. > > And the dual input VT420 perfected :^) What can I say, I love VT420's! > > Zane We had dual input with the CiTOH 101e in 1984 (plus a built-in clock on the setup screen with the model 101). My employer bought those in favor of DEC terminals because they were only $1700 in 1982-1983. I still have a cabinet of them (plus the manuals). Great clone terminals. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From donm at cts.com Sat Dec 25 23:40:30 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Help with CQD 220A/TM In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Dec 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Jerome Fine wrote: > >Many thanks to everyone who replied. I still get the > >"Username and Password Required" demand for: > >http://www.cmd.com/ > > This is *really* weird, I'd followed a link to this earlier in the week and > got through no problem, I just followed the same link which turns out to > just be the above, and got the same result as you. This is *very* new, and > disturbing. I don't have the boards, but I just grabed the two PDF's you > provided URL's for. Even more weird, Zane, as I accessed the basic URL just after I read Jerome's e-mail and then again just after reading yours. In each case without problem or request for ID. I did get a grumble when I tried to access the /Manuals/ directory directly, and was advised that the virtual directory was not available for browsing. - don > >But, the following link do provide the switch settings: > >http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/220A223ASwitchSettings.pdf > >and > >http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/220A223AInstallGuide.pdf > > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From sms at antinode.org Sat Dec 25 23:38:20 1999 From: sms at antinode.org (sms@antinode.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Help with CQD 220A/TM Message-ID: <99122523382006@antinode.org> From: Jerome Fine > Does anyone have the files for the CQD 220/TM - the original > board? Also, the CQD 200/TM. I have no trouble getting to these things from the support page, "http://www.cmd.com/TechnicalSupport.cfm", although the links to the 220/223 seem to be lost "-200/223" is really "-200/203", and the "-220/223" choice is missing. (I'll send a complaint to CMD.) Try: http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/220223InstallGuide.pdf http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/220223JumperSettings.pdf http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/sw_cqd200.cfm http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/200203TechSpecs.pdf ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Steven M. Schweda (+1) 651-645-9249 (voice, home) 1630 Marshall Avenue #8 (+1) 612-754-2636 (voice, work) Saint Paul MN 55104-6225 (+1) 612-754-6302 (facsimile, work) sms@antinode.org sms@provis.com (work) From eric at brouhaha.com Sat Dec 25 23:38:50 1999 From: eric at brouhaha.com (Eric Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. In-Reply-To: <19991226012156.27058.qmail@hotmail.com> (netsurfer_x1@hotmail.com) References: <19991226012156.27058.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <19991226053850.13556.qmail@brouhaha.com> > Most famous "vaporware" computer: Xerox Alto. I must vigorously disagree with this one. The Xerox Alto was only offered to paying customers years after it was developed, and I've heard no reports of unreasonably delivery schedules. In fact, until recently I was of the impression that it had never been offered for sale at all, but apparently it was offered to very select customers, such as Atlantic Richfield and the US Congress. It's only vaporware if the manufacturer offers/advertises it but does not actually have it available for sale. If you want to nominate a Xerox computer system for the category of longest schedule slip, it would be the Star, which was several years late but eventually did ship using the Xerox 8010 (Dandelion) hardware. From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Dec 26 00:11:34 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays In-Reply-To: References: from "Mike Ford" at Dec 24, 99 10:06:43 pm Message-ID: >> Maybe so, but the party "starts" next weekend. :=) > >What's a 'party'? Likely the first practical invention of mankind. A gathering of people where the principal objective is fun. From Innfogra at aol.com Sun Dec 26 00:26:00 1999 From: Innfogra at aol.com (Innfogra@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Time is relative Message-ID: <0.afdc3766.25970ef8@aol.com> In a message dated 12/25/1999 1:25:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, foxvideo@wincom.net writes: > Now what I would like some of you scientific types to explain to me is how > folks living in the years 'BC' designated them. They couldn't say "this > year is 45 BC'" because they didn't know when it was going to happen. Time is relative. The Egyptians had their own calendar, it would be 5XXX now. I rather like the Mayan interlocking circles. Their calendar was more accurate than ours. It is also interesting that it had a start time that preceded their own culture. I suspect that for most of humanity that the stars and the night sky has held a far greater position in ones life than now. We used to live a lot closer to earth's cycles. The seasons and passing of years generate their own calendar. We, in Oregon, are going through a long term cycle of heavier rainfall, more than 18 years long. People seem to forget this is a 'cycle' in the dry years. I wonder what the native American cultures called "EL Nino"? I am sure it was a segment of their calendar. Mediterranean metalsmiths(in Rhodes, 86BC) built a differential geared calculator for calculating the positions of the sun and moon, with eclipses, multiple years and more. Here is a URL which may have appeared on this list before. http://www.math.utsa.edu/ecz/ak.html Gears from the Greeks I hope this qualifies as "on topic" Many cultures instituted their own calendars. Western civilization has instituted the current calendar, mostly for commercial purposes. Since most people have adopted it, the current calendar would be hard to change. This is the same problem with the millennium change. I like the British Observatory's statement. The idea of a year of celebration sounds like a lot of fun, I hope to do my share. Paxton From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Dec 26 01:27:08 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: TRW Report Message-ID: Well... pitiful is a good word. I went sort of from curiosity and also because it was the first TRW in the new venue. Not more than 50 sellers showed up... in 15 years I've never seen so few people... but what did I expect? Marvin showed up and had the temerity to actually *sell* some things, whereas I don't think I turned ten dollars the whole day. Nick Oliviero dropped by bearing a most pleasant Xmas gift: a nice RX50 for my uVAX II. Thanx Nick! I, as fate would have it, found a very rare music synthesiser/sequencer combo, [an Oberheim OB-SX and DSX] and bought same... there went all my cash, so I packed up and left before 11:00... as many were doing. The first one in January promises to be a much better attended Affaire. At least the music stuff works.. I have it hooked up in the studio and it's just like 1978... but I'd sure look goofy in bell bottoms and colored glasses... so we'll leave it at that. A pleasant New Year to all of you whose calendar rolls over in the next few days.. I am planning a quiet Evening at Home..... vicarious revelry for me! Cheers and K3WL n3W y3Ar d00dZ! 2K RulEZ!!! wE ArE AlL El!Te... WaReZ 4 aLL.... if you can call a 25-year-old version of Kermit "warez"... ;) Cheerz John From mikeford at socal.rr.com Sun Dec 26 01:43:25 1999 From: mikeford at socal.rr.com (Mike Ford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: TRW Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I, as fate would have it, found a very rare music >synthesiser/sequencer combo, [an Oberheim OB-SX and DSX] and bought >same... there went all my cash, so I packed up and left before Rare find indeed, that is my favorite, and among the best of that era. I can't play twiddle or I would covet it. ;) I asked my wife this morning if I could go, and she said no. ;( From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 26 09:25:37 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. Message-ID: <991226102537.24600cd4@trailing-edge.com> >Here is a varied list of computers (and computer-related things) that were >either famous or infamous for various reasons (Bunch of IBM PC - TI-99/4 - Timex/Sinclair - Apple - Commodore - RS stuff deleted for brevity). Replace "computer" with "desktop microcomputer with keyboard and video display" and I'll agree that your list makes sense. (Though the Alto doesn't quite fit that category.) Unfortunately your list completely neglects the non-desktop micros, especially those without integral video, minis, and mainframes... Tim. From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 26 09:28:04 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. Message-ID: <991226102804.24600cd4@trailing-edge.com> >>Computer with the best speech synthesizer: TI-99/4A. > Dunno 'bout that... how about the Digitalker as used on some S-100 systems? You'll note that his definition of "computer" didn't include S-100 systems (probably because they don't have integral video...). But if we have to talk about the "best" speech synthesizer of the day, I'd vote for the original DECtalk (often confused with a VT240 base!) These are still in continuing commercial use at the far end of those applications where you dial in to check your bank balance, etc. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From af-list at wfi-inc.com Sun Dec 26 10:53:24 1999 From: af-list at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: TRW Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You're brave! I got out the words, "Hey...is there anyway I could sneak to..." and could tell I was about to be bludgeoned to death... On Sat, 25 Dec 1999, Mike Ford wrote: > > I, as fate would have it, found a very rare music > >synthesiser/sequencer combo, [an Oberheim OB-SX and DSX] and bought > >same... there went all my cash, so I packed up and left before > > Rare find indeed, that is my favorite, and among the best of that era. I > can't play twiddle or I would covet it. ;) > > I asked my wife this morning if I could go, and she said no. ;( > > From af-list at wfi-inc.com Sun Dec 26 10:58:52 1999 From: af-list at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. In-Reply-To: <19991226012156.27058.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Dec 1999, David Vohs wrote: > Computer with the worst keyboard: (tie) Sinclair ZX-81/Timex Sinclair 1000 & > IBM PC Jr. Wouldn't you rank the Atari 400 somewhere in here? > Computer with the worst pitchman: Bill Cosby. (TI-99/4A) Again, Atari. Remember all those Alan Alda commercials in the 80's? Aaron From marvin at rain.org Sun Dec 26 11:10:03 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: TRW Report References: Message-ID: <38664BEB.61CB4F54@rain.org> Aaron Christopher Finney wrote: > > You're brave! I got out the words, "Hey...is there anyway I could sneak > to..." and could tell I was about to be bludgeoned to death... You have to be forward looking in these things. I told my wife about two months ago that I was planning on going to TRW on Christmas Say. The storm came and went and by the week before Christmas, all was well. It did help that I told her I would pick up our daughter in LA :). At least now I can say I am one of those people who attended TRW on Christmas! All in all, not much classic stuff down there. There were some NeXT slabs down there with memory and HD for $30 each (no kb, monitor, or anything else.) There was another NeXT slab that was complete, but I didn't check on the price. I saw an HP 9000 series computer but until I get rid of more stuff, I didn't even ask. There were the usual few C-64s. It was still fun ... the fun just didn't last as long. From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Sun Dec 26 11:22:09 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Help with CQD 220A/TM In-Reply-To: <38659E7B.3EBB24E9@idirect.com> References: <0bcc01bf4e92$ad6b10d0$a652e780@L166> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991226092209.009201a0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 23:50 25-12-1999 -0500, this was written... >It is VERY disturbing. Especially since this is a discontinued board. >If someone is able to acquire the board and there is no documentation, >then it becomes very difficult to find out how the board works. > >> >But, the following link do provide the switch settings: >> >http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/220A223ASwitchSettings.pdf >> >and >> >http://www.cmd.com/Manuals/220A223AInstallGuide.pdf > >I would guess that the lock on the URL is unnecessary if the >person knows the specific name of the manual. I suggest that >anyone who has the files save them and perhaps archive them. Done deal, even though I don't have either of the boards (I wish!). However, I would also like to point out that I had no trouble getting to the switch settings or tech specs for the CQD-200 from the main page. Perhaps the demand for user ID is a temporary aberration? It might be wise to contact CMD about it rather than panicking. ;-) Lord knows I've had more than one familiar web site pull such a stunt as a result of botched coding or misunderstood directives. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From rachael_ at gmx.net Sun Dec 26 05:47:35 1999 From: rachael_ at gmx.net (Jacob Dahl Pind) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: RC 702 Message-ID: <501.29T1798T7673962@gmx.net> Hi I have just got a old Danish build computer from 1979, it was build by Regne Centralen. I got it including a RC 722 keyboard and a RC 752 monitor. It`s based on a Z80a with 64 Kb and two fullsize 5 1/4" floppy drives build by YE in Japan. I did not get any discs with it and no one seems to remember it here in Denmark, so I was hoping that somehow some of this machines has made it outside Denmark, so if anyone knows something about this machine please step foreward. Regrads Jacob Dahl Pind From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 26 11:31:52 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. Message-ID: <991226123152.24600cd4@trailing-edge.com> >> Computer with the worst pitchman: Bill Cosby. (TI-99/4A) >Again, Atari. Remember all those Alan Alda commercials in the 80's? As long as we're talking about desktop Micros, why not Dick Cavett and his pitches for the Apple ][ ? And then there are the mid-80's Radio Shack ads featuring Bill Gates... Tim. From whdawson at mlynk.com Sun Dec 26 11:34:03 1999 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <000a01bf4fc7$66c78060$95e3dfd0@cobweb.net> index listname -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991226/f787a4e3/attachment.html From whdawson at mlynk.com Sun Dec 26 11:41:11 1999 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: <000a01bf4fc7$66c78060$95e3dfd0@cobweb.net> Message-ID: <001301bf4fc8$6644c660$95e3dfd0@cobweb.net> index classiccmp -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991226/48df8525/attachment.html From foxnhare at jps.net Sun Dec 26 12:14:49 1999 From: foxnhare at jps.net (Larry Anderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. References: <199912260802.AAA14661@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <38665B14.7FCC9131@jps.net> > Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 01:21:56 GMT > From: "David Vohs" > > Here is a varied list of computers (and computer-related things) that were > either famous or infamous for various reasons > > First, the infamous ones > > Computer with the worst keyboard: (tie) Sinclair ZX-81/Timex Sinclair 1000 & > IBM PC Jr. I agree with the other respondents, the original PET keyboard is hard to type on period. At least on the PC-jr you had decent spacing. Later pet keyboards were a vast improvement but not the best. Atari 400 could also be on the list, but the touch sensors were better then Sinclair's. > Computer with the slowest disk drive: Commodore 64(C). A sad tale goes with that distinction, it is capable of much better speed but certain marketing/design choices were made for the wrong reasons. :( > Most infamous computer by price: Apple Lisa. I remember seeing that in a computer store, $10,000, wow! had nice demos, though. > And now the famous ones > > Computer with the best keyboard: (tie) Commodore 64(C), & TRS-80 Model 12. > Computer with the best speech synthesizer: TI-99/4A. There are sooo many, I would have to suggest the "Alien Voicebox" (Atari and Commodore VIC/64) that sythesiser has (software controllable) pitch/speed and is able to SING! ;) Amiga was good. As for Commdore 64 voice sythesisers I can list SAM, Easy Speech, VoiceMaster, Votrax, Alien Voicebox, Commodore's, and a couple magazine projects.. > Most famous "vaporware" computer: Xerox Alto. Vaporware should reflect something that was promised but never saw the light of day. I would put the Commodore 8-bit LCD in the running, man did I WANT one of those! > Computer with the best sound hardware: (tie) TI-99/4A & Commodore 64(C). Yep, Amiga also should be on the list. > Computer with the coolest pitchman: William Shatner. (VIC-20) Even though I hate IBM I thought the chaplinesque hobo was nice. > Computer with the coolest case design: TI-99/4A. (The case reminds me of a > Delorean. Remember those?) I liked the Atari 800, pop open expansion bay, four joystick ports (in the front no less!) > Computer with the best introductory commercial: Apple Macintosh. ("On > January 24, Apple will introduce Macintosh. And you will see why 1984 won't > be like "1984"".) I agree. Here are some more: Most imfamous sales life: Mattell Aquarius and Coleco Adam. Most famous Sales life: Commodore 64(c) estimated 17 million sold for one model. Least Innovative initial release: IBM PC (only really new features were the price tag and the logo) Most overrated antique: MITS Altair (surely not as unique as some, and way more production than others) Most infamous bug-box: TRS-80 (earned the nickname Trash-80 for all the service work needed), second possibly the original PET (the original ROMs were pretty buggy) Most infamous Computer Monitor: Osborne 1 with it's 4" (?) black & white display. -- 01000011 01001111 01001101 01001101 01001111 01000100 01001111 01010010 01000101 Larry Anderson - Sysop of Silicon Realms BBS (209) 754-1363 300-2400 baud Commodore 8-bit page at: http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/commodore.html 01000011 01001111 01001101 01010000 01010101 01010100 01000101 01010010 01010011 From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 26 15:11:57 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re: Oscilloscopes)`) Message-ID: <009001bf4fe5$d7ccede0$7c24d1d8@default> -----Original Message----- From: Ethan Dicks To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 10:00 AM Subject: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re: Oscilloscopes)` >--- John B wrote: >> Ethan Dicks wrote: > I still have this pr/s01 >20mA portable papertape reader, but I still know nothing about it, especially >baud rate. I haven't yet hauled a 'scope out to the place the -8's are at. >That's one of the next steps. > >-ethan Now that I have microfiche/paper schematics,maintenance manuals, etc.. to every DEC board/device ever made I actually found all the manuals to your PRS01 paper tape reader.. I fact, I have a strong feeling I will be getting a few. Please post back the exact model number as that will tell me the baud rate. They made two models: "A" version which is 20mA 300 baud. and a "B" version which is 20mA 2400 baud. I can post pinouts for the group if needed once I get the full model number. OT: so far I found two more PDP-16s, RSX-11B,C - papertape??, (I thought the first version was "D"), and about a million other things I won't even try to list right now. I have also learned the art of stacking DEC handbooks 50 high... Another thing I did not know was that there are 5 different PDP-8e maintenance manual sets: Preliminary (3), Processor (3), Internal Options (3), External Options (3) and Lab-8/e (1). Finally, found a pile more of PDP-1 software including Spacewars (with both patches) and OPSYS :-) john http://www.pdp8.com/ From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Dec 26 16:28:15 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re: Oscilloscopes)`) Message-ID: <19991226222815.2252.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> --- John B wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: Ethan Dicks > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Date: Wednesday, November 24, 1999 10:00 AM > I still have this pr/s01, 20mA portable papertape reader > Now that I have microfiche/paper schematics,maintenance manuals, etc.. to > every DEC board/device ever made I actually found all the manuals to your > PRS01 paper tape reader.. I fact, I have a strong feeling I will be getting > a few. Please post back the exact model number as that will tell me the baud > rate. Will do. > They made two models: "A" version which is 20mA 300 baud. and a "B" version > which is 20mA 2400 baud. I can post pinouts for the group if needed once I > get the full model number. Great. One odd thing about the prs01 is that the outermost pin on one of the two connectors is in use. It is a no-connect to either the terminal or the interface card (which uses the middle six pins out of eight, IIRC). Thanks, John. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Sun Dec 26 17:08:00 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re: Oscilloscopes)`) Message-ID: <991226180800.24600cef@trailing-edge.com> >>I still have this pr/s01 >>20mA portable papertape reader, but I still know nothing about it, >>especially >>baud rate. I haven't yet hauled a 'scope out to the place the -8's are at. >>That's one of the next steps. >They made two models: "A" version which is 20mA 300 baud. and a "B" version >which is 20mA 2400 baud. I can post pinouts for the group if needed once I >get the full model number. Mine started out life as the 300 baud version, but was "field modified" to 2400 baud by changing some of the timing capacitors. (No crystals here, the baud rate is set by a capacitor and tweaked with a variable resistor.) It was also "field modified" to RS-232 by adding a small circuit board to the 0.1"-pitch header inside. (That was done by me!) The circuitry inside is really quite simple, just plain old TTL and some optocouplers for the 20mA interface. What *I* like about the PR/S01 is: 1. Very portable, down to the carrying handle on the end :-). 2. It doesn't use a bulb, but instead a small array of infrared LED's for scanning. For those who've had to deal with loose bulb connections or dead bulbs while in the field, this is a *real* godsend. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 26 18:01:18 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re: Oscilloscopes)`) In-Reply-To: <009001bf4fe5$d7ccede0$7c24d1d8@default> from "John B" at Dec 26, 99 04:11:57 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 749 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991227/4051ade9/attachment.ksh From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 26 18:55:58 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re:Oscilloscopes)`) Message-ID: <009b01bf5005$239ccb40$7c24d1d8@default> -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 7:27 PM Subject: Re: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re:Oscilloscopes)`) >> Another thing I did not know was that there are 5 different PDP-8e >> maintenance manual sets: Preliminary (3), Processor (3), Internal Options >> (3), External Options (3) and Lab-8/e (1). > >Interesting... > >I thought the PDP8/e maintenance manual was 3 volumes. Volume 1 was the >CPU (and core IIRC). Volume 2 was internal options (EAE, Memory >extension/timeshare, EPROM board, etc) . Volume 3 was external options >(disks/tapes/terminals/etc). And then a separate Lab 8/e manual for the >realtime I/O boards. > >Are you saying you have a 3-volume set for the CPU, another 3 volume set >for internal options, etc? If so, Wow!. The single volume CPU manual >contains an incredible amount of useful info, so a 3-volume set must be >wonderful. and... what version of the *standard* three volume set do you have? Do you have the 1.25" thick volume 3 or the 1/2" thick volume 3? Other volumes are "maintenance training manuals" (1,3), 2,3, and 1,2.. Seems DEC only intended certain manuals to go to the public [1,2,3]. I have 2 versions of each set with maintenance trainers to bring me a current running total of 5 sets of PDP-8/E maintenance guides. I have so many other weird manuals and options I am hoping you, Alison, or Megan have heard of them: A 1964 PDP-8P (all transistor).. I have prints. DeCastro designed it. Could be the straight-8 but I doubt it. DX-36X (looks to be a straight-8 to IBM 360 interface) RSX-11B, RSX11-C ..before RSX-11D was released. Here's a real weird one (I'll put up pictures soon): A TU56 that does not look like a TU56.. No "unit number switch". Only On/Off, -> , <- ,nothing else. Two drives. Standard DECtape, NO CARDS inside. The entire drive electronics are on an external backplane. NO, it doesn't look like a TU-55 either. Most useful stuff to me so far are the Microfiche and Internal Tech Notes for my 8/S. The tech notes identify a few hundred different common problems with the 8/s and how to fix them... many from internal DEC engineers. I also have these for the 8,8/i, and 8/l. I wonder if Dag only got hardware? I am certainly receiving a lot of internal stuff. Also, what are the current licensing issues with RT11, RSX, and RSTS? A few list members have offered to help me read in all the different versions so I can post them on the Internet. john http://www.pdp8.com/ > >-tony > From dylanb at sympatico.ca Sun Dec 26 19:20:19 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: HP guru needed! Message-ID: <00a501bf5008$8a58d060$7c24d1d8@default> I saw an HP mini at a local warehouse.... Here is what I saw/what I have been told: It is an HP-2 (is there such a thing)? It has a high speed paper tape unit on it. It has a disk interface box (about 5" high). I have not seen the CPU as it was not in a position to see it's front panel. I tried a search but get 5000 HP-2 laserjet webpages. Any help/ideas/pictures would be appreciated. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: John B To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 9:03 PM Subject: Re: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (wasRe:Oscilloscopes)`) > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Tony Duell >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Sunday, December 26, 1999 7:27 PM >Subject: Re: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was >Re:Oscilloscopes)`) > > >>> Another thing I did not know was that there are 5 different PDP-8e >>> maintenance manual sets: Preliminary (3), Processor (3), Internal Options >>> (3), External Options (3) and Lab-8/e (1). >> >>Interesting... >> >>I thought the PDP8/e maintenance manual was 3 volumes. Volume 1 was the >>CPU (and core IIRC). Volume 2 was internal options (EAE, Memory >>extension/timeshare, EPROM board, etc) . Volume 3 was external options >>(disks/tapes/terminals/etc). And then a separate Lab 8/e manual for the >>realtime I/O boards. >> >>Are you saying you have a 3-volume set for the CPU, another 3 volume set >>for internal options, etc? If so, Wow!. The single volume CPU manual >>contains an incredible amount of useful info, so a 3-volume set must be >>wonderful. > > >and... what version of the *standard* three volume set do you have? Do you >have the 1.25" thick volume 3 or the 1/2" thick volume 3? Other volumes are >"maintenance training manuals" (1,3), 2,3, and 1,2.. Seems DEC only intended >certain manuals to go to the public [1,2,3]. I have 2 versions of each set >with maintenance trainers to bring me a current running total of 5 sets of >PDP-8/E maintenance guides. > >I have so many other weird manuals and options I am hoping you, Alison, or >Megan have heard of them: > >A 1964 PDP-8P (all transistor).. I have prints. DeCastro designed it. Could >be the straight-8 but I doubt it. >DX-36X (looks to be a straight-8 to IBM 360 interface) >RSX-11B, RSX11-C ..before RSX-11D was released. >Here's a real weird one (I'll put up pictures soon): A TU56 that does not >look like a TU56.. No "unit number switch". Only On/Off, -> , <- ,nothing >else. Two drives. Standard DECtape, NO CARDS inside. The entire drive >electronics are on an external backplane. NO, it doesn't look like a TU-55 >either. > >Most useful stuff to me so far are the Microfiche and Internal Tech Notes >for my 8/S. The tech notes identify a few hundred different common problems >with the 8/s and how to fix them... many from internal DEC engineers. I also >have these for the 8,8/i, and 8/l. > >I wonder if Dag only got hardware? I am certainly receiving a lot of >internal stuff. > >Also, what are the current licensing issues with RT11, RSX, and RSTS? A few >list members have offered to help me read in all the different versions so I >can post them on the Internet. > > > >john > >http://www.pdp8.com/ > > > > > >> >>-tony >> > > From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Sun Dec 26 20:29:15 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re:Oscilloscopes)`) In-Reply-To: "John B" "Re: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re:Oscilloscopes)`)" (Dec 26, 19:55) References: <009b01bf5005$239ccb40$7c24d1d8@default> Message-ID: <9912270229.ZM26948@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 26, 19:55, John B wrote: > DX-36X (looks to be a straight-8 to IBM 360 interface) More than likely. One of my friends has one complete DX-11 (Unibus-to IBM-channel interface, built from Flip Chips, in a fair-sized rack) and one incomplete, in pieces, for spares. They were in use between 11/34's and an Amdahl until about 4 or 5 years ago. One has LEDs, the other incandescent lamps. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 26 21:01:59 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re:Oscilloscopes)`) In-Reply-To: <009b01bf5005$239ccb40$7c24d1d8@default> from "John B" at Dec 26, 99 07:55:58 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1688 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991227/f393c773/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Dec 26 21:24:12 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (was Re:Oscilloscopes)`) In-Reply-To: <9912270229.ZM26948@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> from "Pete Turnbull" at Dec 27, 99 02:29:15 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 959 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991227/66134b73/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Sun Dec 26 22:27:13 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Lamp panels (was Re: PRS01 paper tape) Message-ID: <19991227042713.2656.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > Those lamp panels (144 lamps IIRC) are fun. They're used on other DEC > peripherals as well -- the RK11-C can take one (where it displays most of > the registers, etc). I've seen those mentioned in the appropriate handbooks. I even have an RK-11C that would be much easier to debug (not to mention more fun) with a panel of blinkenlights. Presumably, one could be fabricated with easier-to-find lamps than the DEC originals (at least, _I_ only have a handful of spares). -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Dec 27 01:09:26 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. In-Reply-To: <38665B14.7FCC9131@jps.net> References: <199912260802.AAA14661@lists5.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991227020926.009359d0@mail.30below.com> On or about 10:14 AM 12/26/99 -0800, Larry Anderson was caught in a dark alley speaking these words: >> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 1999 01:21:56 GMT >> From: "David Vohs" >> Computer with the best keyboard: (tie) Commodore 64(C), & TRS-80 Model 12. Sorry, can't agree there either - I've logged lotsa hours on both a C64 and my Tandy 200... my T200 whups it wholeheartedly. And my original IBM 101-key keyboards (found at a college "garage sale") are fantastic, and heavy enough to defend a small country with them! ;-) >> Computer with the coolest pitchman: William Shatner. (VIC-20) >Even though I hate IBM I thought the chaplinesque hobo was nice. Actually, re: Shatner's attitude, I'd rate him rather lower on the graph than others have... (IMHO, of course) >> Computer with the coolest case design: TI-99/4A. (The case reminds me of a >> Delorean. Remember those?) >I liked the Atari 800, pop open expansion bay, four joystick ports (in the >front no less!) >Here are some more: > >Most imfamous sales life: Mattell Aquarius and Coleco Adam. >Most famous Sales life: Commodore 64(c) estimated 17 million sold for one model. Not to belittle the C64, but how about the Tandy CoCo1-2-3 series... Sold from 1979 to 1992 - 13 years active selling for an 8-bitter. >Least Innovative initial release: IBM PC (only really new features were the >price tag and the logo) >Most infamous bug-box: TRS-80 (earned the nickname Trash-80 for all the >service work needed) Erm... *which* TRS-80. There were *dozens* of different models... Happy Holidaze, Roger "Merch" Merchberger ===== Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- zmerch@30below.com SysAdmin - Iceberg Computers ===== Merch's Wild Wisdom of the Moment: ===== Sometimes you know, you just don't know sometimes, you know? From zmerch at 30below.com Mon Dec 27 01:16:46 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Blinkenlightes on micros (was: Lamp panels In-Reply-To: <19991227042713.2656.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991227021646.00abc2a0@mail.30below.com> On or about 08:27 PM 12/26/99 -0800, Ethan Dicks was caught in a dark alley speaking these words: >I've seen those mentioned in the appropriate handbooks. I even have >an RK-11C that would be much easier to debug (not to mention more fun) >with a panel of blinkenlights. Presumably, one could be fabricated with >easier-to-find lamps than the DEC originals (at least, _I_ only have a >handful of spares). What would it take to put some blinkenlights (safely) on a micro, say a CoCo or a C64? Would it just take buffering the data & address lines (if unbuffered, like on the CoCo) and adding the requisite current-limiting resistors & LED's? Also, if you need to buffer the busses on a 1-2Mhz micro, would that add delay to the busses that one would need to account for? Just a few random thoughts for a project I don't have time for... ;-) Happy Holidaze, Roger "Merch" Merchberger ===== Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- zmerch@30below.com SysAdmin - Iceberg Computers ===== Merch's Wild Wisdom of the Moment: ===== Sometimes you know, you just don't know sometimes, you know? From healyzh at aracnet.com Mon Dec 27 01:35:39 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Blinkenlightes on micros (was: Lamp panels In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991227021646.00abc2a0@mail.30below.com> References: <19991227042713.2656.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >What would it take to put some blinkenlights (safely) on a micro, say a >CoCo or a C64? Would it just take buffering the data & address lines (if >unbuffered, like on the CoCo) and adding the requisite current-limiting >resistors & LED's? Somewhere on Sunsite (Metalab) there is a bunch of info on how to add stuff like this to a Linux box. Though I think the info is basically for load meters. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 27 03:23:04 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: pdp8/11 console cable pinouts References: Message-ID: <99122704280208.23050@vault.neurotica.com> On Fri, 24 Dec 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >> Now, for a question. I could go dig this info up myself but it'd take me >> hours. Here, I'll bet someone knows off the top of his/her head. Are the >> pinouts for the pdp8's KL8-JA serial board compatible enough with those of the >> DL11-W, such that I might use the same cable for either? > >Should be OK. Or at least I use an ex-PDP11 (DL11-E or DL11-W) serial >cable with the M7655 cards in my PDP8/e. The M7650 seems to use the same >cable as well. As do some other DEC serial cards (DUP11?, for example). Excellent. Thanks! >> I'm thinking about assembling & bringing up a pdp8/e tonight...the first pdp8 >> in my new house! :-) > >Good luck! And if you have any problems, post here -- I've got the >maintenance manuals to hand... Ahh, most kind, thank you. I didn't have quite as much free time as I thought I would, but I've made some progress. The processor is up & running with 16kw core. If I can get my RK05 to spin up I'll test out the RK8E and see what's on the big pile of RK05 packs that I was recently given by a friend. Anyway I hope to get back to this project tomorrow. I've never actually used an RK05 on a pdp8 before...only TU56s...this ought to be fun! -Dave McGuire From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 27 09:23:32 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: OT NT 3.51 In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19991224101847.0092c250@mail.bluefeathertech.com> References: <199912241506.QAA05549@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: <199912271424.PAA10127@mail2.siemens.de> > >Well, according to the rules 3.51 is OT, acording to MS it's already vintage. > It was published less than ten years ago. By that criteria (which is what > the list uses), it has yet to become "classic." That's what I ment, we just have to keep in mind that it is short to become on topic: Development started somewhen around 1988 (according to MS) and the oldes Version I have - a beta, still calles NT 3.1 preliminary, is from 07/92 ! ... two more years to go :) Gruss H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From baileyj at whitlock.com Mon Dec 27 08:56:35 1999 From: baileyj at whitlock.com (John Bailey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: FW: VAXstation KVM switching Message-ID: <000e01bf507a$9496b480$0706040a@whitlock.com> Hello, My name is John Bailey and I am an integtrator of data projection and display systems in Research Triangle Park, North Carolina. I noticed this board on a search for VAX info and thought you might be able to help with a problem I'm working on. I need to control several VAXstation 4000.60 machines with a single keyboard/mouse/monitor. The environment is a telecom network management center with limited space per operator. Do you have any suggestions or know of any hardware that would accomplish this? The regulars (Black Box, Cybex) are no help. If not, do you know if the machines will operate without a keyboard and mouse (once booted), or support multiple connects and disconnects of keyboard and mouse while operating. Any advice greatly appreciated, John B. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 27 10:15:24 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays In-Reply-To: <19991225061820.26394.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <199912271516.QAA26255@mail2.siemens.de> > > Maybe so, but the party "starts" next weekend. :=) > Ah, yes, but I'm going to somebody else's house to drink _their_ > fancy booze and eat their fancy food (sushi, yum!) next week. My > party is *next* year. Maybe we'll show Stanley Kubrik's movie to > get the party rolling. ;-) Which one ? Hans :) -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Mon Dec 27 11:08:51 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.5.32.19991225073052.007b5100@mail.wincom.net> from "Charles E. Fox" at Dec 25, 99 07:30:52 am Message-ID: <199912271609.RAA10710@mail2.siemens.de> > > >century (and the 2nd millennium). The new millennium starts on 01/01/2001. > > Hey, Tony, I thought all computer types counted 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9! > Had _I_ been designing a calendar, there would have been a year 0. And a > century 0. And a millennium 0. And, for that matter, a zeroth of every > month. We'd currently be in the 19th century (and at the end of the 1st > millennium). Well, even when there yould have been a Year Zero (Which I had realy apreciated - just the idea of 0 as a number wasn't ready to be used all over), we still would be in the 20th century. The difference is just that one century isn't couted from x01 to (x+1)00 but rater x00 to x99. > But that's not the calendar we all use. The 19th century ended on > 31/12/1900, and the 20th centrury started on 01/01/1901. That's within > living memory (just). Now, if you can honestly justify a century of 99 > years, I'd love to know how. Because ? SCNR. > Celebrate the year 2000 if you want. But don't call it the start of the > next millennium. Jep, just one more thing: > Merry Christmas/Newtonsday [1]/Halloween [2]/Midwinter/whatever else you > [1] Sir Isaac Newton was born 25th December 1642 This implies that the 25th is the relevant day all over ... Just, over here the 24th is Weihnachten - the evening of the 24th is the holy thing ... etc. pp. the 25th has only a relevance of getting a day off work :) (Not usable this year). Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From steverob at hotoffice.com Mon Dec 27 10:15:20 1999 From: steverob at hotoffice.com (Steve Robertson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays Message-ID: <01BF505B.A9E7F3E0.steverob@hotoffice.com> > > Ah, yes, but I'm going to somebody else's house to drink _their_ > > fancy booze and eat their fancy food (sushi, yum!) next week. My > > party is *next* year. Maybe we'll show Stanley Kubrik's movie to > > get the party rolling. ;-) > > Which one ? > "Death Race 2000" this year, "2001 - A Space Odyssey" next year. ;-) Steve Robertson - From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Mon Dec 27 11:28:16 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: FW: DECstation systems and parts for sale In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Found on Usenet, CC'd to both CLASSICCMP and the port-pmax section of Netbsd.org. If you want a cheap(?) DECStation, give this fellow a shout. Thanks much. Attachment follows. -=-=- -=-=- On Mon, 27 Dec 1999 15:54:23 GMT, in comp.sys.dec you wrote: >>From: Super User >>Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec >>Subject: DECstation systems and parts for sale >>Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 15:54:23 GMT >>Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com >>Lines: 6 >>Message-ID: >>X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com >>X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 unoff BETA 970309; i386 FreeBSD 2.1.7-RELEASE] >>Path: news1.jps.net!cyclone.pbi.net!131.119.28.147!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!remarQ70!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!corp.supernews.com!water.vramp.net!not-for-mail >>Xref: news1.jps.net comp.sys.dec:1313 >> >>We retired a small pile of DECstation machines and would like to find >>good homes for them. A complete list of items is at www.vramp.net/dec.htm. >>All prices very negotiable. >> >>Bob -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies -- kyrrin (at) bluefeathertech [dot] com Web: http://www.bluefeathertech.com "...No matter how we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them..." From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Dec 27 11:34:01 1999 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: HP guru needed! In-Reply-To: "John B"'s message of "Sun, 26 Dec 1999 20:20:19 -0500" References: <00a501bf5008$8a58d060$7c24d1d8@default> Message-ID: <199912271734.JAA84186@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "John B" wrote: > I saw an HP mini at a local warehouse.... > > Here is what I saw/what I have been told: > > It is an HP-2 (is there such a thing)? Maybe. More likely there are more digits, like 2116, 2114, 2115, 2100, 21MX, 21xx.... Most of the HP1000 CPUs have 21xx numbers as well. The 1000 line was, originally, a bundle of a 2100-family computer with HP's RTE real-time executive; eventually HP silk-screened "1000" on the front instead of "21MX", but the actual model number of the processor (the tag on the back) was still 21xx. There were also the HP2000 time-shared BASIC systems, built out of one or two 2100-family processors. 2100-family processors also found their way into all sorts of big HP test and measurement systems in the very late 1960s and 1970s. For example (note these URLs are *temporary*): http://www.reanimators.org/tmp/8322.jpg - scan of a photo of an 8580B automatic spectrum analyzer; the box at the top of the left rack is an HP2100A. http://www.reanimators.org/tmp/8324.jpg = scan of a drawing of an 8541A automatic network analyzer; the top of the right rack is what an HP2116 looks like, and underneath that would appear to be a drawer, a filler panel, a paper tape reader, and a paper tape punch. (Trimmed 90-some lines of quoted irrelevant text -- c'mon folks, you can use your editors too....) -Frank McConnell From wanderer at bos.nl Mon Dec 27 14:09:50 1999 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Datasheet needed References: <00a501bf5008$8a58d060$7c24d1d8@default> <199912271734.JAA84186@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: <3867C78E.4EAB@bos.nl> Hello List, Who can help me with a (copy of) a datasheet of the Burr-Brown digtal to analog converter type DAC80-CBI-I and/or the DAC90BG? Thanks, Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer@bos.nl | Europarlementariers: http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | zakkenvullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel!| mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 27 12:34:04 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:27 2005 Subject: Lamp panels (was Re: PRS01 paper tape) In-Reply-To: <19991227042713.2656.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 26, 99 08:27:13 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1044 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991227/00391fc3/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 27 12:42:52 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Blinkenlightes on micros (was: Lamp panels In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991227021646.00abc2a0@mail.30below.com> from "Roger Merchberger" at Dec 27, 99 02:16:46 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1670 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991227/64ad6c94/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 27 12:44:53 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: pdp8/11 console cable pinouts In-Reply-To: <99122704280208.23050@vault.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Dec 27, 99 04:23:04 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 767 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991227/12d62e5c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 27 12:52:24 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays In-Reply-To: <199912271609.RAA10710@mail2.siemens.de> from "Hans Franke" at Dec 27, 99 05:09:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2065 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991227/cc4a419e/attachment.ksh From dylanb at sympatico.ca Mon Dec 27 12:41:30 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (wasRe:Oscilloscopes)`) Message-ID: <003b01bf5099$fdedc620$2625d1d8@default> >> Also, what are the current licensing issues with RT11, RSX, and RSTS? A few >> list members have offered to help me read in all the different versions so I >> can post them on the Internet. > >Still very much licensed, I'm afraid. There is a bobbyist license that >applies to (I believe) Supnik's emulator _only_ for some versions of >these OS's, but there's no affordable license to run them on real hardare >or other hardware. > >-tony > > So what you are saying is I can post most versions of every OS and state that they may only be used on Supnik's emulator. I guess it will be up to the honest end-user. john http://www.pdp8.com/ From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 27 13:48:34 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Blinkenlightes on micros (was: Lamp panels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > That would certainly work (and wouldn't damage the computer), although I > don't know that you'd see anything useful on lights that were changing at > 1MHz. Most machines with frontpanels had a way to single-step the CPU > from the panel. Used to run an altair with a 4mhz z80 and the lights do tell a lot. You can see it spinning in polled io loops and math routines where processor cycles are eaten big time. Sure the low order lights are generally dim glow but over time you get familiar with that glow and its subtle changes. Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 27 16:06:47 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Help!!! I need a Shugart SA455 floppy drive Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991227160647.443fef78@mailhost.intellistar.net> I need a Shugart SA-455 drive to replace the one that died in my Z-100. Does anyone have one they can spare? Joe From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Dec 27 15:25:35 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: pdp8/11 console cable pinouts Message-ID: <19991227212535.9695.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > I assume your packs are all 16 sector ones. The PDP8 uses those, while > the PDP11 uses 12 sector packs (which, alas, are a lot more common). Indeed, it's true. I'd even trade two-for-one to get some 16-sector packs. Would it be worth the experiment to butcher a 12-sector pack into a 12-sector pack and reformat it? 12 sectors = 30 degrees, 16 sectors = 22.5 degrees. The idea would be to patch over eight of the slits on the 12 sector pack and cut 12 new ones (by bisecting the circle several times). I haven't disassembled an RK05 in years (the last time was in 1988 when my boss pointed me at two pallets of drives and asked me to get two working units out of the pile - I got four working and carted home the scrap) - the sensor that detects the slits in the pack is optical, not hall-effect, right? Just a thought. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com From peter at joules0.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 27 13:02:42 1999 From: peter at joules0.demon.co.uk (Peter Joules) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: OT: Happy Holidays In-Reply-To: <01BF505B.A9E7F3E0.steverob@hotoffice.com> References: <01BF505B.A9E7F3E0.steverob@hotoffice.com> Message-ID: In article <01BF505B.A9E7F3E0.steverob@hotoffice.com>, Steve Robertson writes > >> > Ah, yes, but I'm going to somebody else's house to drink _their_ >> > fancy booze and eat their fancy food (sushi, yum!) next week. My >> > party is *next* year. Maybe we'll show Stanley Kubrik's movie to >> > get the party rolling. ;-) >> >> Which one ? >> > >"Death Race 2000" this year, "2001 - A Space Odyssey" next year. ;-) > > It may be a few years late, but in the UK at least "1984" is well on the way here :( -- Regards Pete From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Mon Dec 27 15:33:55 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Lamp panels (was Re: PRS01 paper tape) Message-ID: <19991227213355.27691.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > > Those lamp panels (144 lamps IIRC) are fun. They're used on other DEC > > > peripherals as well -- the RK11-C can take one (where it displays most of > > > the registers, etc). > > Yes, of course. The input signals are all TTL level... and the panel is just > driver transistors and lamps. You could use (e.g) ULN2803 chips to drive > lamps... I probably have a schematic of the panel in the DX11 prints. OK... so fabrication isn't a big deal, but knowing which cable pins get named what is. I mean there's disk registers of various types, but just sticking a gross of bulbs on the end of a cable protruding from the backplane will result in some pretty interesting, but random lights. If your DX11 prints surface, cool. No need to go digging. I'm a long way off from resurrecting the RK11-C. I have an RKV11-D that I'll use first, to scan and backup my tower of RK05 packs. I know I've got RT-11 v4 on RK and v5 on RL disks; it's just a matter of slapping together a system with RL drives, RK drives and getting an RL drive on my MicroVAX again for easy data transfer ($ BACKUP/PHYSICAL...) OTOH, I finally landed a DEQNA, but have no idea how I'd use it under a non-UNIX PDP-11 OS (like RT-11 or RSX), but that's a different topic for a different day. This is TTY month. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 27 14:37:48 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Datasheet needed In-Reply-To: <3867C78E.4EAB@bos.nl> from "wanderer" at Dec 27, 99 08:09:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 580 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991227/650a2a5d/attachment.ksh From aek at spies.com Mon Dec 27 16:03:16 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Datasheet needed Message-ID: <199912272203.OAA24718@spies.com> "> Who can help me with a (copy of) a datasheet of the Burr-Brown > digtal to analog converter type DAC80-CBI-I and/or the DAC90BG? " www.spies.com/arcade/schematics From marvin at rain.org Mon Dec 27 16:09:10 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: OT?: Illegal Transmitters References: <19991227212535.9695.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3867E386.261A2642@rain.org> While the direct subject is off topic, if the Federal raids *were* at gunpoint and actually were *raids*, I could see this becoming a problem collecting some computers. http://www.2600.com/news/1999/1218.html For those of you who are html impaired, the subject concerns raids carried out on a number of small businesses making electronic kits including Ramsey Electronics and Super Circuits. The subject in question appears to be equipment that could be used for wiretapping. From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 27 16:09:49 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: pdp8/11 console cable pinouts References: Message-ID: <9912271716120M.23050@vault.neurotica.com> On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Tony Duell wrote: >I know the RK05 internals reasonably well (even if I say so myself) and >have the prints here. So if you need help with that, post on classiccmp >and you should get help... Excellent, thank you! At this point I've got it cleaned up and cabled...It doesn't seem to want to spin up though. No fault or anything, just no spindle motor activity. The door locks, the "load" lamp goes out, and then nothing. I can turn the spindle by hand, so it's not siezed, and the belt looks ok. I know RL01/2 drives won't spin up unless they're cabled properly, but I don't remember RK drives having the same requirement...do they? >I assume your packs are all 16 sector ones. The PDP8 uses those, while >the PDP11 uses 12 sector packs (which, alas, are a lot more common). Yup, they're 16 sector packs...about ten of them. Mostly unlabeled. My "original" pdp8/e is still in storage 200 miles from here...I haven't seen it in probably nine years...I do so love OS/8 hacking; I can't wait to get this box running! :-) :-) -Dave McGuire From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Dec 27 20:14:20 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: OT: Re: OT?: Illegal Transmitters In-Reply-To: <3867E386.261A2642@rain.org> References: <19991227212535.9695.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991227201420.30570d3c@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 02:09 PM 12/27/99 -0800, Marvin wrote: > >While the direct subject is off topic, if the Federal raids *were* at >gunpoint and actually were *raids*, I could see this becoming a problem >collecting some computers. > >http://www.2600.com/news/1999/1218.html > >For those of you who are html impaired, the subject concerns raids carried >out on a number of small businesses making electronic kits including Ramsey >Electronics and Super Circuits. The subject in question appears to be >equipment that could be used for wiretapping. So what else is new? Gun owners have had to put with this kind of harrasment and rediculous interpetation of the laws for years. Joe > From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 27 18:34:53 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: OT?: Illegal Transmitters Message-ID: <004d01bf50cb$5c8b9d20$0400c0a8@winbook> Does anybody really believe this unsubstantiated and uncorroborated sort of prattle? The key difference between this and normal "news" is that real stories don't have to mask the names of the participants. While it's possible, stupid as our government is, it's not likely that a legitimate source of legitimate news would report a legitimate story in this way, with oblique references to what should be in the lead, and masked references to individuals and businesses likely to sue. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 27, 1999 5:15 PM Subject: OT: Re: OT?: Illegal Transmitters >At 02:09 PM 12/27/99 -0800, Marvin wrote: >> >>While the direct subject is off topic, if the Federal raids *were* at >>gunpoint and actually were *raids*, I could see this becoming a problem >>collecting some computers. >> >>http://www.2600.com/news/1999/1218.html >> >>For those of you who are html impaired, the subject concerns raids carried >>out on a number of small businesses making electronic kits including Ramsey >>Electronics and Super Circuits. The subject in question appears to be >>equipment that could be used for wiretapping. > > So what else is new? Gun owners have had to put with this kind of >harrasment and rediculous interpetation of the laws for years. > > Joe > >> > From mcguire at neurotica.com Mon Dec 27 18:41:46 1999 From: mcguire at neurotica.com (Dave McGuire) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: OT?: Illegal Transmitters References: <004d01bf50cb$5c8b9d20$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <9912271943150S.23050@vault.neurotica.com> Umm, I guess you didn't read Ramsey's web pages. http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/scstore/sitepages/hobby/fedpage2.htm -Dave McGuire On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: >Does anybody really believe this unsubstantiated and uncorroborated sort of >prattle? The key difference between this and normal "news" is that real >stories don't have to mask the names of the participants. > >While it's possible, stupid as our government is, it's not likely that a >legitimate source of legitimate news would report a legitimate story in this >way, with oblique references to what should be in the lead, and masked >references to individuals and businesses likely to sue. > >Dick > >-----Original Message----- >From: Joe >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Monday, December 27, 1999 5:15 PM >Subject: OT: Re: OT?: Illegal Transmitters > > >>At 02:09 PM 12/27/99 -0800, Marvin wrote: >>> >>>While the direct subject is off topic, if the Federal raids *were* at >>>gunpoint and actually were *raids*, I could see this becoming a problem >>>collecting some computers. >>> >>>http://www.2600.com/news/1999/1218.html >>> >>>For those of you who are html impaired, the subject concerns raids carried >>>out on a number of small businesses making electronic kits including >Ramsey >>>Electronics and Super Circuits. The subject in question appears to be >>>equipment that could be used for wiretapping. >> >> So what else is new? Gun owners have had to put with this kind of >>harrasment and rediculous interpetation of the laws for years. >> >> Joe >> >>> >> From edick at idcomm.com Mon Dec 27 18:58:44 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: OT?: Illegal Transmitters Message-ID: <006501bf50ce$b0f207c0$0400c0a8@winbook> Well, since the technology's there to make a detonator out of one of these just as it's there to use a cell-phone to fire a device, I suppose they could be concerned, but the way this information is presented at the '2600' site is quite different from the way it's presented at the Ramsey site. We may NEVER know what really happened. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Dave McGuire To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 27, 1999 5:45 PM Subject: Re: OT?: Illegal Transmitters > > Umm, I guess you didn't read Ramsey's web pages. > > http://www.ramseyelectronics.com/scstore/sitepages/hobby/fedpage2.htm > > -Dave McGuire > >On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: >>Does anybody really believe this unsubstantiated and uncorroborated sort of >>prattle? The key difference between this and normal "news" is that real >>stories don't have to mask the names of the participants. >> >>While it's possible, stupid as our government is, it's not likely that a >>legitimate source of legitimate news would report a legitimate story in this >>way, with oblique references to what should be in the lead, and masked >>references to individuals and businesses likely to sue. >> >>Dick >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Joe >>To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >>Date: Monday, December 27, 1999 5:15 PM >>Subject: OT: Re: OT?: Illegal Transmitters >> >> >>>At 02:09 PM 12/27/99 -0800, Marvin wrote: >>>> >>>>While the direct subject is off topic, if the Federal raids *were* at >>>>gunpoint and actually were *raids*, I could see this becoming a problem >>>>collecting some computers. >>>> >>>>http://www.2600.com/news/1999/1218.html >>>> >>>>For those of you who are html impaired, the subject concerns raids carried >>>>out on a number of small businesses making electronic kits including >>Ramsey >>>>Electronics and Super Circuits. The subject in question appears to be >>>>equipment that could be used for wiretapping. >>> >>> So what else is new? Gun owners have had to put with this kind of >>>harrasment and rediculous interpetation of the laws for years. >>> >>> Joe >>> >>>> >>> From jpl15 at netcom.com Mon Dec 27 18:59:42 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: pdp8/11 console cable pinouts In-Reply-To: <9912271716120M.23050@vault.neurotica.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Dec 1999, Dave McGuire wrote: > > Excellent, thank you! At this point I've got it cleaned up and cabled...It > doesn't seem to want to spin up though. No fault or anything, just no spindle > motor activity. The door locks, the "load" lamp goes out, and then nothing. I Last time I had this problem on my 11/34a with the RK05s... I traced it to DCLO negated. After much further detective work, and with no small amount of assistance from Tony D and Allison et al., I found the problem in my case to be the BC11 cable from the Unibus to the drive electronics reversed at the drive end. Of course it *will* go in backwards if coerced, and, as you well know... the RK05 electronics are not the sine qua non of accessability. Mine are low in the rack and I had to lie on my back with a flashlight in my teeth to work on the unit.... You can imagine the impolite things I called myself when the trouble came to light. At least I got a good tour of RK05s and How They Work. Good luck. John From mrbill at mrbill.net Mon Dec 27 19:22:13 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Help IDing MicroVAX 3100 Message-ID: <19991227192213.A7943@mrbill.net> I just picked up a MicroVAX 3100, and need help IDing it, and possibly figuring out what its worth. From west at tseinc.com Mon Dec 27 19:10:23 1999 From: west at tseinc.com (Jay West) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: TRW Report (off topic) References: Message-ID: <002d01bf50d0$5259cde0$0101a8c0@jay> You wrote... > I, as fate would have it, found a very rare music > synthesiser/sequencer combo, [an Oberheim OB-SX and DSX] and bought > same... there went all my cash, so I packed up and left before > 11:00... as many were doing. The first one in January promises to > be a much better attended Affaire. > > At least the music stuff works.. I have it hooked up in the > studio and it's just like 1978... but I'd sure look goofy in bell > bottoms and colored glasses... so we'll leave it at that. as a MIDI gear-head myself, I can truely appreciate those finds. VERY nice gear! My poor setup includes a descendent of those, an obie matrix-6 and Xk as well as a yamaha KY-88. I'm suprised the DSX still works, I've heard they were fairly tempermental. Congrats! Jay West From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 27 17:02:39 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: pdp8/11 console cable pinouts In-Reply-To: <19991227212535.9695.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 27, 99 01:25:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1268 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991227/d6034717/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 27 17:25:56 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Lamp panels (was Re: PRS01 paper tape) In-Reply-To: <19991227213355.27691.qmail@web606.mail.yahoo.com> from "Ethan Dicks" at Dec 27, 99 01:33:55 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3198 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991227/340aa1a5/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Mon Dec 27 20:01:10 1999 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: OT?: Illegal Transmitters References: <004d01bf50cb$5c8b9d20$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <386819E6.15A142F9@rain.org> Richard Erlacher wrote: > > Does anybody really believe this unsubstantiated and uncorroborated sort of > prattle? The key difference between this and normal "news" is that real > stories don't have to mask the names of the participants. I generally do not post what I consider to be "unsubstantiated and uncorroborated sort of prattle." The reports may well be biased, but I also received via email a forwarded letter from John Ramsey, owner of Ramsey Electronics describing what happened. It does describe what happened as an armed raid. Check out the Ramsey web site, and you will see more about what happened. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Dec 27 19:50:39 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: pdp8/11 console cable pinouts In-Reply-To: <9912271716120M.23050@vault.neurotica.com> from "Dave McGuire" at Dec 27, 99 05:09:49 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2080 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991228/325017f6/attachment.ksh From dylanb at sympatico.ca Mon Dec 27 19:43:53 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: OT?: Illegal Transmitters Message-ID: <001801bf50d4$ffabc800$cb29d1d8@default> -----Original Message----- From: Marvin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, December 27, 1999 9:03 PM Subject: Re: OT?: Illegal Transmitters > > >Richard Erlacher wrote: >> >> Does anybody really believe this unsubstantiated and uncorroborated sort of >> prattle? The key difference between this and normal "news" is that real >> stories don't have to mask the names of the participants. > >I generally do not post what I consider to be "unsubstantiated and >uncorroborated sort of prattle." The reports may well be biased, but I also >received via email a forwarded letter from John Ramsey, owner of Ramsey >Electronics describing what happened. It does describe what happened as an >armed raid. > >Check out the Ramsey web site, and you will see more about what happened. One of my companies was raided like this in 1996. I will give John Ramsey a call tomorrow. I lost over $460K to fight the battle.. a won... barely. First thing anyone should do is release anything and everything on the internet when something like this happens, and start the press before a media ban is put on the case (like mine).With my contacts, and lawyers I was able to pull through. The federal bastards tried anything to bankrupt me.. even by taking any lose change they could find the day during the raid. I hope John kicks them back. If I wasn't so busy with the load I just got I would throw up a server in Ireland or somewhere and post some very serious high tech transmitters I had to design back in '94. It is possible to take a chunk back out of them... I hope he does it. john http://www.pdp8.com/ > From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Dec 27 21:15:40 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Help IDing MicroVAX 3100 Message-ID: <199912280315.WAA04485@world.std.com> <>From the sticker on the back: | <| (4 - 11) | <| <--- | <--------------------- Optional extra serial port expander (yes ports 4-11). References: <19991227212535.9695.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >While the direct subject is off topic, if the Federal raids *were* at >gunpoint and actually were *raids*, I could see this becoming a problem >collecting some computers. The Clinton administration has allowed or inspired serious erosion of civil liberties. I think it is one of those Nixon in China things, Clinton politically needs to "act" very hard line on law and order issues. This translates into making political hay with any areas he has a personal wedgy about, or polls well. Making this relevent. I was in one of the surplus joints I dig around in last week when half a dozen police cars arrived in about two cents short of a swat team. Somebody that I assume this guy either owes money to, or in some other way has POed, used the magic words to the police, "drug lab". This is fairly ridicuous, as the unit is a typical 20x60 foot miniwarehouse that is maybe 75% goods on pallets that come and go once a week. There isn't a place to hide anything, not to mention the dozen different vendors that dig through it every week. Use the magic words though and six cruisers, one K9, one helicopter, and one motorcycle were happy to keep everyone they found inside entertained on the ground for half an hour. Weird, not at all pleasant experience. From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Mon Dec 27 21:47:29 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - KC0CUE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: For Free: Reference Cards Message-ID: I have the following, in envelopes, ready to mail to the first person to request them: Z80 Processor Reference Card (Original Blue Folding) MicroPro Wordstar 3.0 Reference Card I will not, however, send them to the same person unless only one person responds. Please send name and address to me. Anthony Clifton - Wirehead From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Dec 28 00:04:52 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Lamp panels (was Re: PRS01 paper tape) Message-ID: <19991228060452.29973.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > However, I have found the RK11-C prints (actually while looking for the > RK05 prints to answer your other question). This gives the pinout of the > 'indicator' connectors. > > Here are the pinouts (most of page 23 in my prints). Thanks, Tony. This one goes in my archives at http://penguincentral.com/retrocomputing/ -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Tue Dec 28 00:09:29 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: RK03/RK05 rotation sensors (was Re: pdp8/11 console cable pinouts) Message-ID: <19991228060929.23657.qmail@web608.mail.yahoo.com> --- Tony Duell wrote: > > Would it be worth the experiment to butcher a 12-sector pack into a > 12-sector > > I assume you mean 'into a 16 sector pack'. Um... yeah. :-\ > According to the RK05 printset, the sensor is, indeed optical. The Diablo > model 30 (RK02/RK03) sector transducer is a coil + magnet assembly > according to the manual. That was what I was concerned about. I _used_ to have an RK03, but it got away from me over ten years ago (I think it succumbed to the basement flooding that ruined a bunch of my stuff way back when, including a Datapoint Beehive Terminal). I still have the Diablo-to-DEC-tape-cable adapters. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com From mbg at world.std.com Tue Dec 28 00:45:51 1999 From: mbg at world.std.com (Megan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: PRS01 paper tape was(Re: PDP-8/e restoration (wasRe:Oscilloscopes)`) Message-ID: <199912280645.BAA07278@world.std.com> >So what you are saying is I can post most versions of every OS and state >that they may only be used on Supnik's emulator. I guess it will be up to >the honest end-user. No... only those OSes which are covered by the license (regardless of how restrictive it is) should be made available for general download. Please do NOT make later copies (in the case of RT, copies later than V5.3) available because if you do, it demonstrates to Mentec that we (the hobbyist community) might not be able to be trusted with what they have made available, which might make them less likely to remove the restrictions. The current restrictions are: 1) Only those operating systems and layered products earlier than specific releases (in the case of RT, V5.3) 2) For us ONLY on the accepted emulators (Supnik and Viking, possible Charon). 3) The license does NOT grant the right to use the software on REAL HARDWARE. So, please adhere to the terms of the license which has been arranged with Mentec/DEC/Compaq or there may not be another one (or the current one could be withdrawn). Megan Gentry Former RT-11 Developer +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ | Megan Gentry, EMT/B, PP-ASEL | Internet (work): gentry!zk3.dec.com | | Unix Support Engineering Group | (home): mbg!world.std.com | | Compaq Computer Corporation | addresses need '@' in place of '!' | | 110 Spitbrook Rd. ZK03-2/T43 | URL: http://world.std.com/~mbg/ | | Nashua, NH 03062 | "pdp-11 programmer - some assembler | | (603) 884 1055 | required." - mbg | +--------------------------------+-------------------------------------+ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Dec 28 06:29:24 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Info needed on SWTP & IA In-Reply-To: <3867C78E.4EAB@bos.nl> Message-ID: <199912281130.MAA22282@mail2.siemens.de> While filling up my new storeage some stuff, I had already forgotten, did show up. One is a SWTP 6800 machine (just the barebone Mobo and some cards) - in fact it was not forgotten, just collecting dust. So this SWTP was once working well, until the clock generator chip did stop function. I tried to make up a replacement from TTLs, just it never realy worked. Now all I still can find are the boards itself - no documentation, no nothing. What clock chip was used ? And has maybe anyone a spare ? I'm realy sorry for my bad memory. The second is about an Ithaca Audio IA-1010 S100 bus card. I foud it between a lot of S100 stuff I had in a pile for almost 14 years untouched. Strangly enough it was inside a Jade Z80 Kit box, including all docu for the Z80 card, but nothing about the IA-1010... It's hatd to belive that it might be some kind of sound card, since there are no connectors other then the Bus connector. So any information would be apreciated. Gruss H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Dec 28 07:19:28 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991227020926.009359d0@mail.30below.com> References: <38665B14.7FCC9131@jps.net> Message-ID: <199912281220.NAA07188@mail2.siemens.de> > >> Computer with the best keyboard: (tie) Commodore 64(C), & TRS-80 Model 12. > Sorry, can't agree there either - I've logged lotsa hours on both a C64 and > my Tandy 200... my T200 whups it wholeheartedly. And my original IBM > 101-key keyboards (found at a college "garage sale") are fantastic, and > heavy enough to defend a small country with them! ;-) If you like the big thingys, the old PC (not AT) Keyboard was quite ok (I'm using some still today on Pentium class machines :), but the best of all times on a PC/ desktop machine is still the Siemens PC-D keyboard - same low profile design as the (now old) 97xx terminals, and durable for centuries. Second award goes for the Xerox - I'm still a big follower of the idea of special desktop keys. > >> Computer with the coolest pitchman: William Shatner. (VIC-20) > >Even though I hate IBM I thought the chaplinesque hobo was nice. > Actually, re: Shatner's attitude, I'd rate him rather lower on the graph > than others have... (IMHO, of course) No opinion on this - Marketing over here was almost never done via public faces. > >> Computer with the coolest case design: TI-99/4A. (The case reminds me of a > >> Delorean. Remember those?) > >I liked the Atari 800, pop open expansion bay, four joystick ports (in the > >front no less!) The Atati is functional, but a good design ? I still think the most inovative and most beautifull designs of home machines have been made around the MSX systems. From strictly functional thingys like some Phillips, over state of the art designs like Sony up to timeless classics like the Yashica YC-64 (in my mind the most beautifull homecomputer ever (Mine has been stolen last year :( ) > >Here are some more: > >Most imfamous sales life: Mattell Aquarius and Coleco Adam. > >Most famous Sales life: Commodore 64(c) estimated 17 million sold for one > >model. > Not to belittle the C64, but how about the Tandy CoCo1-2-3 series... Sold > from 1979 to 1992 - 13 years active selling for an 8-bitter. And not to forget the Atari 400/800/XL/XE series for almost the same timeframe. But if we restrict this for a single modell - no changes, the original 64 (no c, G or whatever) may win. BTW: also the Apple ][ might earn some share here ... > >Least Innovative initial release: IBM PC (only really new features were the > >price tag and the logo) Least innovative ? I'd still go for the C64 in this class. After the V(I)C-20 a clear step back. > >Most infamous bug-box: TRS-80 (earned the nickname Trash-80 for all the > >service work needed) > Erm... *which* TRS-80. There were *dozens* of different models... I guess he is going for the Model One. Further: > Computer with the worst system architecture: TI-99/4A > (doubly interpreted BASIC? c'mon TI!) System architecture ? Hardware or System related Software ? If it is about the system hardware, I go for the Apple ][ (Don't get me wrong, I'm still some kind of Apple maniac, just Woz did pull it over the line to save some gates when he did turn down continous screen memory in favour for some saved gates). The TI was a quite good hardware. In case of system related software I still think the IBM BIOS is rules the field. And the C64 goes second here. > Computer with the slowest disk drive: Commodore 64(C). Do the Sinclair Microdrives count in here ? :) > Heaviest laptop computer: Apple Macintosh Portable. There have been several heavyer and lesser usable products than the Mac Portable. It was a complete and not a reduced system - no smaller keyboard etc. And as the namy may imply, it was ment as a portable, so going in a class with the huge Compaqs, and not necersary as a laptop. But Apple may bet a worst in class for the //c - the mounted handle is maybe the only sign of portability. If one needs at least one big cardbox (or 5 hands) to carry all the needed pices around, and 5 minutes (and a minimum of two plugs) to set it up, it's not portable at all. > Computer with the best sound hardware: (tie) TI-99/4A & Commodore 64(C). Come on, I'm not an Amiga follower, but this one is superior. But most systems could compete with an C64 - even all the MSXes could hold up. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Dec 28 08:18:36 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. In-Reply-To: <000201bf4a70$551cb300$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> Message-ID: <199912281319.OAA23369@mail2.siemens.de> > I have an Olympia Olytext 20 computer but I don't have the OS for it. It's a > single board, Z-80 system, with a 3.5 inch FD. The manual said it used > CP/M-80 but I haven't been able to find any other information on the system, > or the OS. > No one that I've talked to knows anything about this PC, so I won't even > hope that anyone here would have the OS but... I'm wondering if there is a > way to make a new copy of the OS for this system? If I can find out the > hardware addressing, etc., can CP/M 80 be made to run on it, and without a > horrific amount of work? (I know, depends on what I consider a lot of > work.)I don't mind tedious, if it's do-able. So, I don't know how your self implementations are doing, I just managed to speak to a representive of Olympia, and he at least could remember the System. Always a good sign if a company is responding ;) He didn't have any information or systems at access, but I now have a contact to their Repairs and Spare Part Centre. As for now they are bussy with the usual years end stuff, but I get more about that next Monday. They belive that they still have this sort of OS disks in stock, so you may have to pay their price (which I don't know of right now). Gruss H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Dec 28 07:33:40 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Info needed on SWTP & IA In-Reply-To: <199912281130.MAA22282@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: 6800 clock chip is a 6871A > The second is about an Ithaca Audio IA-1010 S100 bus card. > I foud it between a lot of S100 stuff I had in a pile for Could be anything likely CPU or memory. As afar as I can remember IA never had a sound card. IT was just their name. I used to call on them up in Ithica NY. Allison From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Tue Dec 28 08:40:53 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Info needed on SWTP & IA In-Reply-To: References: <199912281130.MAA22282@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: <199912281341.OAA29027@mail2.siemens.de> > 6800 clock chip is a 6871A Well, was it used on the SWTP ? It's just, I have no docs about the machine anymore ... somewhere maybe :) > > The second is about an Ithaca Audio IA-1010 S100 bus card. > > I foud it between a lot of S100 stuff I had in a pile for > Could be anything likely CPU or memory. As afar as I can remember IA > never had a sound card. IT was just their name. I used to call on them > up in Ithica NY. Ah ja - ok, so the question is what's an IA-1010 - it doesn't look like a CPU nor MEMcard. Gruss H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Dec 28 09:00:14 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Info needed on SWTP & IA In-Reply-To: <199912281341.OAA29027@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: > > 6800 clock chip is a 6871A > > Well, was it used on the SWTP ? It's just, I have no docs about > the machine anymore ... somewhere maybe :) No info on SWTP6800, It may have used a pair of oneshots. Allison From lemay at cs.umn.edu Tue Dec 28 10:07:27 1999 From: lemay at cs.umn.edu (Lawrence LeMay) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: I need 72 pin parity simms Message-ID: <199912281607.QAA00365@thorin.cs.umn.edu> Well, another christmas spend repairing and upgrading all my siblings and nephews computers. Very relaxing, actually. And I get to use up all the junk I buy over the year at onsale.com ;) But, my nephews need more ram in their computer. It spends most of its time thrashing virtual memory onto a slow bigfoot hard drive ;) If anyone has some 72 pin parity simms they want to get rid of, I could sure use them. I would need either 4 8Meg simms, or better (ie, 2 16 meg or 32 meg simms would also be great). I have dozens of 4 meg simms, but the motherboard (genuine IBM) only has 4 simm slots... -Lawrence LeMay lemay@cs.umn.edu From wirehead at retrocomputing.com Tue Dec 28 10:22:06 1999 From: wirehead at retrocomputing.com (Anthony Clifton - KC0CUE) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: FORSALE: Reformatter Software Message-ID: I have Version 1.0 of CP/M-86 <-> IBM2D Reformatter Conversion Software, which can be run on Altos 8600 with cpm86 or mpm86, compupro/godbout with cpm86, ibm's displaywriter with cpm86, NEC's advanced personal computer with cpm86, or tab products system 1600 with cpm86. Includes - Original Cover Letter dated February 24, 1983 - Original notice about not running it on TurboDos - Original Unfilled-out License Card - Reformatter Brochure - 8" Diskette with Software (seal broken) - User Manual all in the original white cardboard shipping material it came in 17 years ago. All materials are in excellent condition, though the software has not been tested, which is why I'm selling it as a collectible. I MAY put it on Ebay if it doesn't sell here, but I wanted first shot to go to known collectors. $17 OBO by 5pm Wednesday + $3 shipping & handling. Anthony Clifton From ddameron at earthlink.net Tue Dec 28 10:04:58 1999 From: ddameron at earthlink.net (Dave Dameron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Info needed on SWTP & IA In-Reply-To: <199912281130.MAA22282@mail2.siemens.de> References: <3867C78E.4EAB@bos.nl> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.19991228100458.24d7224e@earthlink.net> Hi Hans and all, At 12:30 PM 12/28/99 +1, you wrote: >The second is about an Ithaca Audio IA-1010 S100 bus card. >I foud it between a lot of S100 stuff I had in a pile for >almost 14 years untouched. Strangly enough it was inside >a Jade Z80 Kit box, including all docu for the Z80 card, >but nothing about the IA-1010... It's hatd to belive that >it might be some kind of sound card, since there are no >connectors other then the Bus connector. So any information >would be apreciated. It is a Z-80 cpu card. (There should be a Z-80 in the middle area of the board). The other larger chip is an optional 2708 eprom. As Allison said, don't know the previous history of Ithaca Audio in audio electronics. It uses an 8224 clock gen on the upper left, so requires a 18 mHz crystal for 2 mHz clock or 36 mHz crystal for 4 mHz clock! -Dave. From cisin at xenosoft.com Tue Dec 28 11:52:28 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. In-Reply-To: <199912281220.NAA07188@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: > If you like the big thingys, the old PC (not AT) Keyboard was quite > ok (I'm using some still today on Pentium class machines :), but the Could you explain how you get around the incompatibilities of the pre-AT keyboard circuit? > > >Least Innovative initial release: IBM PC (only really new features were the > > >price tag and the logo) Coming into a world of 64K Z80 machines, the PC had an AVERAGE level of innovation. Certainly not enough to be appropriate for a "new standard", but hardly "least". > > >Most infamous bug-box: TRS-80 (earned the nickname Trash-80 for all the > > >service work needed) > > Erm... *which* TRS-80. There were *dozens* of different models... Although I don't AGREE with the original poster on this one, I must defend his terminology. LATER models had sub-designations, and needed them. But the original first model WAS simply called "TRS-80" (FSOT) Later models, despite speculation by users that they would be called "TRS-81" or "TRS-90", in an attempt by Tandy to piggy-back success were then called "TRS-80 [something]", such as TRS-80 Model 3 (FSOT). The name "TRS-80 Model One" never existed until the development of the model 2. OT_analogy: If you were to search through the old archives of the New York Times for the earliest occurrences of the phrases "World War 1" and "World War 2", which one do you think occurred first? ON-Topic_analogy: The phrase "SINGLE-Density" never existed until the marketing people started calling MFM "DOUBLE-Density". -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From wsmith at gj.com Tue Dec 28 12:08:04 1999 From: wsmith at gj.com (Wayne Smith) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: TRW Report Message-ID: > Well... pitiful is a good word. I went sort of from curiosity >and also because it was the first TRW in the new venue. Could you let me know where the new venue is, and the date for the next one? Thanks. Wayne From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Tue Dec 28 12:08:37 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Famous & infamous computers of the 70's & 80's. Message-ID: <991228130837.24600d47@trailing-edge.com> >> If you like the big thingys, the old PC (not AT) Keyboard was quite >> ok (I'm using some still today on Pentium class machines :), but the > >Could you explain how you get around the incompatibilities of the pre-AT >keyboard circuit? At one point (oh, almost ten years ago now) small "adapters" were readily available for a few tens of bucks to let you use true blue IBM PC keyboards on machines expecting AT keyboards. I haven't seen these being sold for many years, but they must occasionally turn up at the usual outlets. Personally, I don't really like the IBM PC keyboards, I'm far more agile with a VT100 or DEC LK201 at my fingertips :-). >ON-Topic_analogy: The phrase "SINGLE-Density" never existed until the >marketing people started calling MFM "DOUBLE-Density". Good point. When did IBM introduce MFM "double-density" MFM 8 inch floppies? I'm guessing 1975 or 1976, based on samples I have here. The DEC RX02 was just a little bit later, IIRC. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From mee at deep.lai.phkk.fi Tue Dec 28 12:15:17 1999 From: mee at deep.lai.phkk.fi (Ilkka Pylkkanen) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: IBM system 36 In-Reply-To: <19991225062251.10497.qmail@brouhaha.com> Message-ID: Ok. So does anybody know good web site about this computer? On 25 Dec 1999, Eric Smith wrote: > > I like to know what processor is on IBM system 36 (5363) > > The 5363 *is* the processor. > From pat at transarc.ibm.com Tue Dec 28 12:34:27 1999 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: WTD: Mostek Z-80 reference booklet Message-ID: Apropos the post earlier today, from the person with a Z-80 reference card to give away ... Does anyone have a spare Mostek Z-80 reference booklet? These were the tiny little booklets, that (among other applications) Radio Shack packaged with either T-Bug, or with the Editor/Assembler (for the TRS-80 Model 1). I used to have one a long time ago, but can't seem to find it anymore. --Pat. From bill_r at inetnebr.com Tue Dec 28 13:19:53 1999 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: WTD: Mostek Z-80 reference booklet Message-ID: <199912281916.NAA28158@falcon.inetnebr.com> I've got a scanned version on my web site; I think it's in the classic computers section under documentation. It's there somewhere, scanned at high enough resolution to be printed and be able to read the tiny little text... >Apropos the post earlier today, from the person with a Z-80 reference card >to give away ... > >Does anyone have a spare Mostek Z-80 reference booklet? These were the >tiny little booklets, that (among other applications) Radio Shack packaged >with either T-Bug, or with the Editor/Assembler (for the TRS-80 Model 1). >I used to have one a long time ago, but can't seem to find it anymore. > >--Pat. > > > Bill Richman incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf microcomputer simulator!) From cube1 at home.com Tue Dec 28 13:41:29 1999 From: cube1 at home.com (Jay Jaeger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: IBM 360/370 emulation? In-Reply-To: References: <13509284637.15.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <19991228194501.MOQB2410.mail.rdc1.il.home.com@ddot-jay> They don't have any left. (In spite of the fact that their last mailing still had them on the sheet). I got the last one last go 'round -- and it doesn't seem to want to work, though I have heard of others whose cards seem to work -- so I suspect I just got "lucky". Jay At 11:23 PM 12/21/99 -0800, you wrote: << snip >> > >Did anybody buy some of those emulation card sets that turned up a few >months ago on the list? Some surplus place claimed for have a bunch of for >like $50 a pop, then seemed to back off later on about having many at all. > --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1@home.com visit http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~cube From healyzh at aracnet.com Tue Dec 28 13:45:09 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Atari ST Y2k Question Message-ID: OK, I've got someone asking me if there Atari ST's are Y2k. Considering the fact that the only Atari I've got working is a TT030 and I've not touched it in a couple years (can't even get to it at the moment), does anyone have any ideas on this? I don't even remember if you can set the data on a ST. It sounds like a they've got 520's. Somehow I don't think they're up to attempting a TOS upgrade, if you can still get the necessary parts to accomplish that. Somehow I think the best answer for them is to set the clock back. On a related subject does Win95 barf if you've not bothered to set the clock back? Who knows when I'll next bother to turn on my Win95 laptop at work (I use it for about 5 minutes a month, if that). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From af-list at wfi-inc.com Tue Dec 28 15:04:00 1999 From: af-list at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: Atari ST Y2k Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There's no internal clock in the Atari ST. The only things which may be messed up are 3rd party external clock cartridges. So far, I haven't come across a list of Y2K-compliant software for the ST's, but the number of apps that use time/date are few (i.e. BBS software, etc.). Aaron On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Zane H. Healy wrote: > OK, I've got someone asking me if there Atari ST's are Y2k. Considering > the fact that the only Atari I've got working is a TT030 and I've not > touched it in a couple years (can't even get to it at the moment), does > anyone have any ideas on this? I don't even remember if you can set the > data on a ST. It sounds like a they've got 520's. > > Somehow I don't think they're up to attempting a TOS upgrade, if you can > still get the necessary parts to accomplish that. Somehow I think the best > answer for them is to set the clock back. > > On a related subject does Win95 barf if you've not bothered to set the > clock back? Who knows when I'll next bother to turn on my Win95 laptop at > work (I use it for about 5 minutes a month, if that). > > Zane > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | and Zane's Computer Museum. | > | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | > From wpe101 at banet.net Tue Dec 28 16:05:27 1999 From: wpe101 at banet.net (wpe101@banet.net) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: OT?: Illegal Transmitters References: <19991227212535.9695.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> <3867E386.261A2642@rain.org> Message-ID: <38693427.D1B552B2@banet.net> I got this url off the Ramsey site, re: the applicable law.. Being a scanner and SWL enthusiast, it kind of worries me... http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2512.html Will Marvin wrote: > While the direct subject is off topic, if the Federal raids *were* at > gunpoint and actually were *raids*, I could see this becoming a problem > collecting some computers. > > http://www.2600.com/news/1999/1218.html > > For those of you who are html impaired, the subject concerns raids carried > out on a number of small businesses making electronic kits including Ramsey > Electronics and Super Circuits. The subject in question appears to be > equipment that could be used for wiretapping. From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Tue Dec 28 18:40:44 1999 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:28 2005 Subject: FS/FT: Tektronix 6130 Workstation Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991228164044.009d1c80@agora.rdrop.com> In the ever on-going attempt to consolidate space in the garage and related warehouse spaces (read that - pay less rent!) I'm offering up another random piece that is lurking about and is not a major item of interest to me. A Tektronix 6130 workstation (circa 1984). I'm not horribly familiar with it, but I'll tell you what I know about it. (going from a Tek brochure) 32016 CPU, 32-bit display list processor, 32081 Floating Point Processor, 1MB memory, 360kb 5.25 diskette drive, 20Mb hard drive, dusl RS-232 interface, IEEE-488 interface, LAN interface, UNIX derivitive operating system (Utek?). Known hardware in the warehouse includes: CPU chassis, console display, graphics display (color I believe), keyboard, (at least one) box full of extra boards and parts, asstd. docs and manuals... I think (but don't hold me to this) I recall seeing a mouse and diskettes somewhere but I'll have to go digging. It was reportedly operational when it came to me a couple of years ago. I've never tried to start it up. This may be a pre-production or engineering model just judging from some of the tags/ID plates (or lack thereof) ...and what do I want from this??? Something interesting that fits in more with my primary interests (PDP-8 stuff is good, or check the 'wish list' on my web pages), or enough of a $$ offer to make it worth my while. (over and above shipping costs, unless you are going to pick it up) B^} So...? -jim --- jimw@computergarage.org The Computer Garage - http://www.computergarage.org Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From cfandt at netsync.net Tue Dec 28 18:44:06 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: OT?: Illegal Transmitters In-Reply-To: <38693427.D1B552B2@banet.net> References: <19991227212535.9695.qmail@web601.mail.yahoo.com> <3867E386.261A2642@rain.org> Message-ID: <4.1.19991228172312.00ad0c30@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 05:05 PM 12/28/99 -0500, wpe101@banet.net said something like: >I got this url off the Ramsey site, re: the applicable law.. Being a scanner >and SWL >enthusiast, it kind of worries me... >http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2512.html Don't worry too much. Wording was put in to ensure the understanding that it is illegal to use electronic, mechanical, or other devices in a "surreptitious interception" mode. Because of this wording it will be hard for the feds to win a case against scanner and SWL (short wave radio listener) enthusiasts because of the long established history of the hobbies. Section 2511, Subsection (2), (g) protects such action anyway: . There is a huge population of scanner and SW receiver owners including many of us on this list. Furthermore, the primary use of scanners and SW receivers (the "electronic, mechanical, or other device") has long been known to be not for surreptitious (or secret) interception of radio communications but for entertainment, amateur radio, business and/or legitimate emergency use. The ACLU, industry lobbyists, ARRL, SWL/scanner clubs, etc., singularly or in concert, would raise hell in court in support of the non-threatening uses of scanners and SW radios. This is regardless of the fact such hardware could indeed be used for illegal interception of transmissions as pointed out in this law. It should be pointed out that the long-known illegality applicable to SWL's, hams and scanner enthusiasts arises from the sharing of received information with *anybody* else without knowledge or approval of the originator per FCC rules and Section 2511 of Chapter 119 of the 18 USC of which the URL is above. Whew, if Senator Barry Goldwater (an avid radio amateur who passed away some years ago after retiring from Congress) could see what happened to Ramsey Electronics; he would cuss up a storm and perhaps try to include verifiable hobbist use as a lawful use of *specific* catagories of devices mentioned as subject to the raids discussed on Ramsey's website :-0 As far as computer enthusiasts are concerned (to push this towards being on topic), the illegality arises when one uses his/her computer to break into, or 'hack', a computer or network without knowledge or permission of the owner whether to do damage or just snoop around --the derisive usage of the term 'hacker'. The wording of Chapter 119 Section 2511 of the code can apply to computing as it's 'wire' communication and sometimes even consists of electronic, or radio, communication. Back to old computers now . . . Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From thompson at mail.athenet.net Tue Dec 28 19:28:30 1999 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: OT?: Illegal Transmitters In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991228172312.00ad0c30@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: I wonder what the feds would say about someone with an ethernet card which supports promiscuous mode and operates on a university campus network? Of course, the hazards of that should be diminishing as switched networks are phased in. On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Christian Fandt wrote: > Don't worry too much. Wording was put in to ensure the understanding that > it is illegal to use electronic, mechanical, or other devices in a > "surreptitious interception" mode. From elvey at hal.com Tue Dec 28 20:15:09 1999 From: elvey at hal.com (Dwight Elvey) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: <001301bf4fc8$6644c660$95e3dfd0@cobweb.net> Message-ID: <199912290215.SAA06334@civic.hal.com> "Bill Dawson" wrote: > index classiccmp > > > > > >
class=240434017-26121999>index > classiccmp
> > Hi Bill I'm not sure if someone else hasn't let you know. you need to send request to the list server and not to the list. If you look at your full header from the list, you'll see: List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe: List-Owner: (Human contact for the list) List-Post: I would suggest that you try sending your meassage to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Take care Dwight PS Do try to send to list with the HTML turned off. It adds a lot of overhead to the people with modems. From whdawson at mlynk.com Tue Dec 28 21:30:26 1999 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Info needed on SWTP & IA In-Reply-To: <199912281130.MAA22282@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: <003701bf51ad$0c7a58c0$a6e3dfd0@cobweb.net> Hans wrote: While filling up my new storage some stuff, I had already forgotten, did show up. One is a SWTP 6800 machine (just the barebone Mobo and some cards) - in fact it was not forgotten, just collecting dust. So this SWTP was once working well, until the clock generator chip did stop function. I tried to make up a replacement from TTLs, just it never really worked. Now all I still can find are the boards itself - no documentation, no nothing. What clock chip was used ? And has maybe anyone a spare ? I'm really sorry for my bad memory. Hans, I know I have a set of schematics for the MPU-A and think I have a set for the MPU-B. Which SWTPC MPU board do you have? I also have schematics to the Control PCB (300 baud bit boffing a PIA) to use the MIKBUG or SWTBUG on the MPU. Also other relevant SWTPC docs. Let me know what you need and how soon. Bill Dawson whdawson@mlynk.com From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Wed Dec 29 00:13:31 1999 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Sellam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Upgrading Compaq Luggables (fwd) Message-ID: In case anyone is interested... Please reply to: 70224.3422@compuserve.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 00:42:47 -0500 From: K.E. Towle <70224.3422@compuserve.com> Subject: Upgrading Compaq Luggables Hello, I just happened across a forum thread that you took part in, the subject of which was the original Compaq "Luggable." These were great machines in their time, and can still be quite useful when appropriately upgraded. Should you have one of these old classics laying around gathering dust, I thought I'd mention that I have a few remaining 80386DX-16 motherboards that are "drop-in" replacements for the original 8088 motherboard. With a Cyrix 486DRX2 chip, it will run like a 80486DX2-32 machine. I can supply instructions on swapping the original monitor for a monochrome VGA monitor that bolts in with only minor modifications, along with numerous other modifications. I'm running Win 3.1 on one of these machines to this day (including sound). Please contact me should you have any interest in upgrading such a machine, and/or forward this eMail on to anyone you know who is still interested. Karl Sellam International Man of Intrigue and Danger ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking for a six in a pile of nines... VCF East? VCF Europe!? YOU BETCHA!! Stay tuned for more information or contact me to find out how you can participate http://www.vintage.org From ernestls at home.com Wed Dec 29 00:54:18 1999 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Olympia Olytext 20 OS question. In-Reply-To: <199912281319.OAA23369@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: <000001bf51c9$87d19940$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> So, I don't know how your self implementations are doing, I just managed to speak to a representive of Olympia, and he at least could remember the System. Always a good sign if a company is responding ;) He didn't have any information or systems at access, but I now have a contact to their Repairs and Spare Part Centre. As for now they are bussy with the usual years end stuff, but I get more about that next Monday. They belive that they still have this sort of OS disks in stock, so you may have to pay their price (which I don't know of right now). Gruss H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch Thanks! I would love to have the original software for this system. I haven't even started trying to make a CP/M boot disk for this system. I've been doing the Holiday thing lately but I'm going to have some time off in January that I'll use to work on this, unless I can get the originals from Olympia. Can you tell me how to contact them directly? I don't speak German very well, so if you can find out if they have the software, I would be very appreciative. Thanks for the follow up. Ernest leucoplast@seanet.com From ernestls at home.com Wed Dec 29 01:02:54 1999 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Where to buy Amstrad CPC464 in London area? In-Reply-To: <000001bf51c9$87d19940$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> Message-ID: <000101bf51ca$baff4b40$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> I'm going to be in the London area in January, and I was wondering if anyone knows where to I might be able to buy an Amstrad CPC464 computer. A friend of mine was just there last week, and he looked for a vintage computer [type] place but he didn't have any luck. I thought that I would check to see if anyone knows of any shops that I could go to when I'm there? TIA Ernest leucoplast@seanet.com From black at gco.apana.org.au Wed Dec 29 01:07:30 1999 From: black at gco.apana.org.au (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Commodore 3040 drive problem + A1000 keyboard. Message-ID: <000901bf51cb$60b1f6f0$dfdfdfdf@landover> Hoping someone can help, Recently I picked up a 3032 PET with a dual 3040 disk drive. When I first turned the drive on, the power led & both status lights on the drives flashed in a regular pattern - 8 times. I checked & re-seated all the chips, now the lights flas in a regular 5 times pattern. Obviously there is a problem, but I can't find diagnostics for this drive anywhere, anyone know what the problem might be & how to fix it ? Also, I need a replacement keyboard for an Amiga 1000, am willing to freight from o/s for this (I'm in Australia). Thanks Lance From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Dec 29 04:13:25 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: RRD42 and TKZ50 Message-ID: <19991229041325.S17736@mrbill.net> Anybody know where I can pick up a DEC RRD42 scsi cd-rom drive, a TKZ30 tape cartridge drive, and a few TK50 tapes to go with said drive? I may just try to resurrect this VAX and replace the two 105mb HDs with a single 1-gig unit... I'm also in need of a serial cable that has the funny "offset rj11" plug on one end and a standard DB25 on the other... so any pointers will be appreciated. Bill -- +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ |Bill Bradford | mrbill@pdp11.org | mrbill@mrbill.net | |http://www.sunhelp.org | http://www.pdp11.org | http://www.mrbill.net| +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ From classiccmp at mrynet.com Tue Dec 28 20:27:56 1999 From: classiccmp at mrynet.com (Classic Computer Mailing List) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: RRD42 and TKZ50 Message-ID: <199912291027.CAA98281@mrynet.com> > Anybody know where I can pick up a DEC RRD42 scsi cd-rom drive, a > TKZ30 tape cartridge drive, and a few TK50 tapes to go with said drive? > I may just try to resurrect this VAX and replace the two 105mb HDs with > a single 1-gig unit... regarding the CD, this was posted here recently: http://www.vramp.net/dec.htm > > I'm also in need of a serial cable that has the funny "offset rj11" plug > on one end and a standard DB25 on the other... so any pointers will be > appreciated. > > Bill Using a 3-pair phone cable and filing down the tab is what I use for my *Stations. Has always worked just fine for me that way with the standard H8571 DB25 adapters on the other end too. Regards, --skots -- Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor@mrynet.com MRY Systems staylor@mrynet.lv (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") ----- Labak miris neka sarkans ----- From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed Dec 29 06:52:03 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: DEC MMJ serial cables Message-ID: <991229075203.24600e59@trailing-edge.com> > I'm also in need of a serial cable that has the funny "offset rj11" plug > on one end and a standard DB25 on the other... so any pointers will be > appreciated. The connector is called (by DEC) a "MMJ plug" and they're available through big electronics distributors (such as http://www.digikey.com/ and http://www.mouser.com/ ). If you don't want to spend the bucks on a bag of MMJ plugs and a MMJ crimper, I also sell complete MMJ cable assemblies. The most popular ones are MMJ to DB25F for connection to a terminal and MMJ to DB9F for connection to a PC-clone's serial port. See http://www.trailing-edge.com/www/mmj.html for ordering information. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed Dec 29 07:02:14 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: DEC MMJ serial cables Message-ID: <991229080214.24600e59@trailing-edge.com> >crimper, I also sell complete MMJ cable assemblies. The most popular >ones are MMJ to DB25F for connection to a terminal and MMJ to DB9F for ^^^^ Whoops, my mistake. I really meant DE9F there! (And this, over a year after I listed this mistake as one of my own pet peeves!) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com Wed Dec 29 08:58:03 1999 From: kyrrin at bluefeathertech.com (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: RRD42 and TKZ50 In-Reply-To: <19991229041325.S17736@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991229065803.0092dbb0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 04:13 29-12-1999 -0600, you wrote: >I'm also in need of a serial cable that has the funny "offset rj11" plug >on one end and a standard DB25 on the other... so any pointers will be >appreciated. This type of plug is called an 'MMJ' (Modified Modular Jack). The blank plugs, the crimping tool (AMP) to crunch them onto the raw wire, and the necessary 6-conductor flat wire itself, are all available from Graybar Electric Supply (offices all over the place -- check your local phonebook or www.graybar.com). The nice thing about the crimping tool is that, although kind of pricey (around $130 with a die set or two), it can be reconfigured to do just about any kind of modular plug except the big 10-pinners. I've found it to be a good investment because I do my own network patch cables (RJ45 plugs), telephone work, and MMJ plugs. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Wed Dec 29 12:20:45 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Atari ST Y2k Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199912291721.SAA16365@mail2.siemens.de> Date sent: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 13:04:00 -0800 (PST) > There's no internal clock in the Atari ST. The only things which may be > messed up are 3rd party external clock cartridges. So far, I haven't come > across a list of Y2K-compliant software for the ST's, but the number of > apps that use time/date are few (i.e. BBS software, etc.). Well, not exactly, there _is_ an internal clock - as software inside the keyboard controller. And there are several known modifications to power this chip independly while the rest is switched off. But AFAIK it doesn't care about Y2K - I'm not shure about the switching second, but after 00:00 01.01.00 the clock continues properly. Also there are no problems within the file system or the (ROM based) GEM/TOS. I'm not shure about Falcon, TT, ST-Book, Stacy, or all clones - they may have different Hard/Software. Servus Hans -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From healyzh at aracnet.com Wed Dec 29 11:23:38 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: RRD42 and TKZ50 In-Reply-To: <19991229041325.S17736@mrbill.net> Message-ID: >Anybody know where I can pick up a DEC RRD42 scsi cd-rom drive, a >TKZ30 tape cartridge drive, and a few TK50 tapes to go with said drive? >I may just try to resurrect this VAX and replace the two 105mb HDs with >a single 1-gig unit... Just use one of your Sun CD-ROM's. I've used 3rd party SCSI CD's on my VS3100/30. An internal drive is probably the best way to get VMS installed as that way you can connect to one of the internal connectors. Getting an external SCSI cable might be a problem, if you haven't noticed, it's not a normal cable. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From mrbill at mrbill.net Wed Dec 29 11:34:12 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: RRD42 and TKZ50 In-Reply-To: References: <19991229041325.S17736@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <19991229113412.B24762@mrbill.net> On Wed, Dec 29, 1999 at 09:23:38AM -0800, Zane H. Healy wrote: > Just use one of your Sun CD-ROM's. I've used 3rd party SCSI CD's on my > VS3100/30. An internal drive is probably the best way to get VMS installed > as that way you can connect to one of the internal connectors. Getting an > external SCSI cable might be a problem, if you haven't noticed, it's not a > normal cable. > Zane Reason I wanted a RRD40/42 was so that the box would be "all DEC" - and this is one of the BA42 cases with two internal spaces (and normal cabling) for two 5.25" scsi devices, so I can put a TKZ30 and a cdrom drive in. Bill -- +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ |Bill Bradford | mrbill@pdp11.org | mrbill@mrbill.net | |http://www.sunhelp.org | http://www.pdp11.org | http://www.mrbill.net| +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ From jim at calico.litterbox.com Wed Dec 29 12:44:11 1999 From: jim at calico.litterbox.com (Jim Strickland) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: RRD42 and TKZ50 In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Dec 29, 1999 09:23:38 AM Message-ID: <199912291844.LAA03919@calico.litterbox.com> > > >Anybody know where I can pick up a DEC RRD42 scsi cd-rom drive, a > >TKZ30 tape cartridge drive, and a few TK50 tapes to go with said drive? > >I may just try to resurrect this VAX and replace the two 105mb HDs with > >a single 1-gig unit... > > Just use one of your Sun CD-ROM's. I've used 3rd party SCSI CD's on my > VS3100/30. An internal drive is probably the best way to get VMS installed > as that way you can connect to one of the internal connectors. Getting an > external SCSI cable might be a problem, if you haven't noticed, it's not a > normal cable. > > Zane Plextor also makes several drives they market as VMS compatible, including the ultraplex 40 and ultraplex wide. -- Jim Strickland jim@DIESPAMMERSCUMcalico.litterbox.com ----------------------------------------------------------------------- BeOS Powered! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- From at258 at osfn.org Wed Dec 29 12:48:03 1999 From: at258 at osfn.org (Merle K. Peirce) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: FORSALE: Reformatter Software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We'd definitely be interested. We need software for our Altos 8600, and have been looking for almost 2 years. On Tue, 28 Dec 1999, Anthony Clifton - KC0CUE wrote: > > I have Version 1.0 of CP/M-86 <-> IBM2D Reformatter Conversion Software, which > can be run on Altos 8600 with cpm86 or mpm86, compupro/godbout with cpm86, > ibm's displaywriter with cpm86, NEC's advanced personal computer with cpm86, > or tab products system 1600 with cpm86. > > Includes > > - Original Cover Letter dated February 24, 1983 > - Original notice about not running it on TurboDos > - Original Unfilled-out License Card > - Reformatter Brochure > - 8" Diskette with Software (seal broken) > - User Manual > > all in the original white cardboard shipping material it came in 17 years ago. > All materials are in excellent condition, though the software has not been > tested, which is why I'm selling it as a collectible. I MAY put it on Ebay if > it doesn't sell here, but I wanted first shot to go to known collectors. > > $17 OBO by 5pm Wednesday + $3 shipping & handling. > > Anthony Clifton > > > M. K. Peirce Rhode Island Computer Museum, Inc. 215 Shady Lea Road, North Kingstown, RI 02852 "Casta est qui nemo rogavit." - Ovid From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 29 12:33:09 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Where to buy Amstrad CPC464 in London area? In-Reply-To: <000101bf51ca$baff4b40$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> from "Ernest" at Dec 28, 99 11:02:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 748 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991229/e0ac4a69/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 29 12:50:35 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Commodore 3040 drive problem + A1000 keyboard. In-Reply-To: <000901bf51cb$60b1f6f0$dfdfdfdf@landover> from "Lance Lyon" at Dec 29, 99 06:07:30 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1495 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991229/36b929ba/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Wed Dec 29 14:04:49 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: MMJ (was Re: RRD42 and TKZ50) Message-ID: <19991229200449.23939.qmail@web607.mail.yahoo.com> --- Bruce Lane wrote: > This type of plug is called an 'MMJ' (Modified Modular Jack). > > The nice thing about the crimping tool is that, although kind of pricey > (around $130 with a die set or two)... I have a non-modular crimper I bought for someone else that didn't pay me for it. It's new, in the package. It will crimp RJ-45 and MMJ. The brand and model number is Ideal 30-497. I would like to get $45 plus shipping for it. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com From dylanb at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 29 14:25:53 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? Message-ID: <002501bf523a$e77ef060$ee2cd1d8@default> Should it be kept in vacuum sealed bags or out of the light? I don't want this stuff to start curling or become brittle. Has anyone looked at how old paper should be preserved? I do now have a few hundred pounds of the stuff to store and it would be ashamed for it to be destroyed. P.S. Jerome is going to help me archive RT11 for public access. Any takers on RSX or RSTS? john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Dec 29 19:00:52 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? In-Reply-To: <002501bf523a$e77ef060$ee2cd1d8@default> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991229190052.3b8799e4@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 03:25 PM 12/29/99 -0500, John B asked: >Should it be kept in vacuum sealed bags or out of the light? > >I don't want this stuff to start curling or become brittle. Has anyone >looked at how old paper should be preserved? I'm sure that it has the same problems as regular paper including the fact that it has acid residues in it that will cause it self-destruct even in a vacuum. I expect that it needs to be preserved the same as most other paper including being being treated to neutralize the acid. I once meet someone that preserved books for the Smithsonian or one of the other big librarys. He told me that the acid neutralization was done with a zinc compound and in a huge pressure chamber. He also said that the treatment took about six months! I wish I had gotten more details but hind-sight is always 20-20. Joe From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 29 17:17:04 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? Message-ID: <199912292317.PAA28842@spies.com> "Has anyone >looked at how old paper should be preserved?" Although it is harder to store, you might want to think about storing it as rolls instead of fan-fold. Old paper tape has a nasty habit of breaking at the creases. From whdawson at mlynk.com Wed Dec 29 18:32:10 1999 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Commodore 3040 drive problem + A1000 keyboard. In-Reply-To: <000901bf51cb$60b1f6f0$dfdfdfdf@landover> Message-ID: <001001bf525d$4f9898a0$2fe3dfd0@cobweb.net> Lance wrote: Hoping someone can help, Recently I picked up a 3032 PET with a dual 3040 disk drive. When I first turned the drive on, the power led & both status lights on the drives flashed in a regular pattern - 8 times. I checked & re-seated all the chips, now the lights flash in a regular 5 times pattern. Obviously there is a problem, but I can't find diagnostics for this drive anywhere, anyone know what the problem might be & how to fix it ? Reply: I was just at this site last night. There's info on the 3032 and other stuff also here: http://www.jps.net/foxnhare/commodore.html and a little bit from the FAQ relevant to your query: THE COMMODORE PET COMPUTER FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS FILE - VERSION 1.6 -------------Updated 07/11/1999-------------- BY LARRY ANDERSSON, COMMODORE COLLECTOR AND PET ENTHUSIAST -------------------------------------- 3040 - European 4040, like the 3000 series PETS? Disk Problems: - If the disk drive flashes a number of flashes repeatedly it is reporting an internal hardware fault, here is a chart: flashes: 4040 8050 # cause: location: cause location 1 - Zero Page - 6532, C1, E1 Zero Page - 6532, C1, E1 2 - ROM - H1 ROM - 2364, L1 3 - ROM - L1 ROM - 2364, H1 4 - ROM - J1 N/A 5 - Zero Page - 6530, K3, 6504, H3 Zero Page - 6530, K3, 6504, H3 6 - N/A N/A 7 - RAM - 2114, D4, D5 RAM - 2114, D4, D5 8 - RAM - 2114, E4, E5 RAM - 2114, E4, E5 9 - RAM - 2114, F4, F5 RAM - 2114, F4, F5 10 - ROM - 6530, K3, 6504, H3 ROM - 6530, K3, 6504, H3 Hope this helps. Bill Dawson How can you know where you are going if you don't know where you've been? From whdawson at mlynk.com Wed Dec 29 18:41:50 1999 From: whdawson at mlynk.com (Bill Dawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? In-Reply-To: <199912292317.PAA28842@spies.com> Message-ID: <001101bf525e$a91cbea0$2fe3dfd0@cobweb.net> "Has anyone >looked at how old paper should be preserved?" >Although it is harder to store, you might want to think about storing it as >rolls instead of fan-fold. Old paper tape has a nasty habit of breaking at >the creases. And I'll bet the old mylar "peel and stick" patches for regular broken paper tape and creases are even harder to find than fan fold paper tape. I'm thinking that the better grades of paper tape that were oiled will last considerably longer than the "plain yellow". Bill From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed Dec 29 18:51:17 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? Message-ID: <991229195117.24600b78@trailing-edge.com> > Should it be kept in vacuum sealed bags or out of the light? *I'd* prefer to see - first - the information preserved, by copying to new paper or mylar tape or some other long-lived medium. The information is what counts, not any particular piece of paper that it's recorded on. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From aek at spies.com Wed Dec 29 19:04:19 1999 From: aek at spies.com (Al Kossow) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? Message-ID: <199912300104.RAA01733@spies.com> "*I'd* prefer to see - first - the information preserved, by copying to new paper or mylar tape or some other long-lived medium." ..or at least to a CD-R From dylanb at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 29 18:24:22 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? Message-ID: <001801bf525c$3891a080$ee2cd1d8@default> -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 7:51 PM Subject: RE: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? >> Should it be kept in vacuum sealed bags or out of the light? > >*I'd* prefer to see - first - the information preserved, by copying >to new paper or mylar tape or some other long-lived medium. The >information is what counts, not any particular piece of paper that >it's recorded on. > Although I am very busy right now I am trying to coordinate the archival of all information/software I have for the PDP-8,PDP-11,LSI systems from DEC. The basic idea is: Expand PDP8.com to a few hundred gigabytes. Find the "module list file - 1959-1984" which I now know contains 55,000 items [I have the total report], index it, and put it online. Hire/buy a microfiche scanner and *attempt* to scan and index the 5000+ sheets of microfiche I have (prints, MDS, IP,tecos,reports, maintenance manuals, software, source code,wire lists, engineering drawings and bulletins, internal tech reports, etc..)... with the help from a few list members. Read in all the software into one standard image format and index on the site. The project will be financed by selling a small portion of the stuff I have received(am receiving)on eBay. If this is at all possible then I should have online everything for PDP-9,PDP-15,PDP-8(s),PDP-11s [so far]. I expect PDP-4 and PDP-10 next. Looks like the PDP-1 stuff will be sold to a private collector. Scanning in the actual prints would be impossible as I am already stacking them 6' high with many rows... and I only made a *small* dent in the documentation area. Tim, you have experience with archiving software.. I have 3 high speed paper tape readers, 10 RX02s, 8 dectape drives, and many other DEC TU/TE tape drives and Disk drives. What software do you use?? It's sounds like I might (and others) have to write some software(or use yours) to pool all the code coming in through the above devices to a large NT server. I'll be pulling out a bunch of 11/23 systems on my next trip with some 11/34,35s. An idea I have is to line 8 or more systems up, fill them with every possible media drive, and 3 of the list members and myself could feed software to the devices as fast as quickly as the data could be read in. All information sent somehow to a central server with terminals to title the data dumped. Looks like "Digital Direct" can handle the microfiche scanning. I hope many of the systems could be networked together through DECNET. (My DECNET background was really strong at one point in time but when I saw DEC dumping I ran to NT like everyone else...) I really don't want this to turn out into a year long project.. I have quite a few minis to restore. Suggestions? john >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 > > From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Wed Dec 29 20:04:24 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? Message-ID: <991229210424.24600b78@trailing-edge.com> >>> Should it be kept in vacuum sealed bags or out of the light? >> >>*I'd* prefer to see - first - the information preserved, by copying >>to new paper or mylar tape or some other long-lived medium. The >>information is what counts, not any particular piece of paper that >>it's recorded on. >Tim, you have experience with archiving software.. I have 3 high speed paper >tape readers, 10 RX02s, 8 dectape drives, and many other DEC TU/TE tape >drives and Disk drives. What software do you use?? It's sounds like I might >(and others) have to write some software(or use yours) to pool all the code >coming in through the above devices to a large NT server. There's no magic - you just have to have an extreme dedication to storing the original information - in its entirety - in an archivable form. This means, usually, reducing every piece of input medium into a "stream of bytes" file that will be portable through operating systems (such as Unix) which don't have an innate concept of "records". For 9-track and 7-track tapes, I prefer "TPC images", as made by many of the TPC archiving programs available for DEC OS's. A TPC image of a tape allows you to exactly reproduce the tape again later from the image, including boot blocks and any variable-size data records in the file. See http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/ to see how I applied this to the PDP-10 software archives, and for pointers on the web to the many TPC tools available. After you make a TPC file, it's important to preserve the record lengths in the file before you transfer the file to a machine that doesn't know about records. For this, my preferred method is ZIP "-V" on VMS, where the "-V" qualifier makes sure that the file attributes and record lengths are all stored in the Zip file. Then you can move the file to Unix's and PC's which don't know anything about record lengths, because the Zip file *is* a stream of bytes. For block-oriented disk (and block-oriented tapes, like DECtape I and II) devices, the preferred archival method is a block-by-block image of everything on the original. This is easily done by, for example, COPY/DEV/FILE DEV: FILE.NAM under RT-11, or by doing a MOUNT/FOR of the disk device under VMS and then COPY DEV: FILE.NAM. Under recent versions of RSX-11M you can use the VCP (Virtual configuration program) and the VD: drivers to make block-by-block copies of disks into container files. Whenever possible, do COPY/VERIFY operations followed by a DIFF/BIN to make sure your copy is exactly the same as the original (and that it's readable, too!) >I'll be pulling out a bunch of 11/23 systems on my next trip with some >11/34,35s. An idea I have is to line 8 or more systems up, fill them with >every possible media drive, and 3 of the list members and myself could feed >software to the devices as fast as quickly as the data could be read in. All >information sent somehow to a central server with terminals to title the >data dumped. Looks like "Digital Direct" can handle the microfiche scanning. >I hope many of the systems could be networked together through DECNET. (My >DECNET background was really strong at one point in time but when I saw DEC >dumping I ran to NT like everyone else...) DECNET is fine, if the machine's you're putting together support it nicely. Don't discount the effort it takes to get a PDP-11 properly configured and the peripherals running - sometimes I'm sure you'll get lucky and it'll just work when you plug it in, but when stuff is coming in "unknown" or "not used for many years" condition, it can take time to get everything going happily. Finally, it's really quite easy to get a PDP-11 running RT-11 hooked up and running TCP/IP, so don't waste too much time dinking around with DECNET. >I really don't want this to turn out into a year long project.. Just for some perspective, I've been building the PDP-11 DECUS and freeware archives for over a decade now. It's not that reading any particular medium is slow (I can image several gigabytes of 9-tracks a day while doing other "real" work), but tracking down the material, getting it into my hands (even when I supply my Fedex account number to get it here at no cost to the donator) and indexing and organizing the results is *not* a quick process. If you've any doubts about the mechanical condition of any of your drives, by all means play it slow and don't risk one-of-a-kind media in a drive with questionable heads. And for paper tapes, if you're concerned about mechanical fragility of the tape, find yourself a gentle slow optical reader (like the DEC PR/S01) and don't risk the tape to some insanely high-speed reader (which *will* occasionally jam up and crinkle your tape, even if you keep it properly adjusted.) The name of the game is to preserve and archive for the next 100 years or so, not to rush to get something that isn't as good as the original! If you're going to be archiving DEC OS distributions, you might want to ask me to get you a list of what I've got archived here already. The archive here doesn't go back forever, but I have copies of most versions from the early-mid-80's onward. (i.e. RSTS/E V7 and on, RT-11 V4 and forward with some earlier V3 And V2 distributions, RSX-11M 3.0 forward, and RSX-11M+ V2.0 and forward, with many of the layered product kits thrown in for good measure.) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From a2k at one.net Wed Dec 29 20:30:07 1999 From: a2k at one.net (LordTyran) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: A good bit.. Message-ID: This was my fortune today.. Proposed Additions to the PDP-11 Instruction Set: PI Punch Invalid POPI Punch Operator Immediately PVLC Punch Variable Length Card RASC Read And Shred Card RPM Read Programmers Mind RSSC reduce speed, step carefully (for improved accuracy) RTAB Rewind tape and break RWDSK rewind disk RWOC Read Writing On Card SCRBL scribble to disk - faster than a write SLC Search for Lost Chord SPSW Scramble Program Status Word SRSD Seek Record and Scar Disk STROM Store in Read Only Memory TDB Transfer and Drop Bit WBT Water Binary Tree Kevin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "It's you isn't it? THE BASTARD OPERATOR FROM HELL!" "In the flesh, on the phone and in your account..." -- BOFH #3 From chris at mainecoon.com Wed Dec 29 20:40:27 1999 From: chris at mainecoon.com (Chris Kennedy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: A good bit.. References: Message-ID: <386AC61B.BC3471A9@mainecoon.com> LordTyran wrote: > > This was my fortune today.. > > Proposed Additions to the PDP-11 Instruction Set: [deleted] Does anyone still have a copy of the proposed extended 360 instructions? It included such things as: Multiply by one, double precision Convert to Roman numerals Form skip and runaway Cheers, Chris -- Chris Kennedy chris@mainecoon.com http://www.mainecoon.com PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 From classiccmp at mrynet.com Wed Dec 29 12:46:03 1999 From: classiccmp at mrynet.com (Classic Computer Mailing List) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: A good bit.. Message-ID: <199912300246.SAA48086@mrynet.com> > LordTyran wrote: > > > > This was my fortune today.. > > > > Proposed Additions to the PDP-11 Instruction Set: > > [deleted] > > Does anyone still have a copy of the proposed extended 360 instructions? > It included such things as: > > Multiply by one, double precision > Convert to Roman numerals > Form skip and runaway > > Cheers, > Chris > -- > Chris Kennedy > chris@mainecoon.com > http://www.mainecoon.com > PGP fingerprint: 4E99 10B6 7253 B048 6685 6CBC 55E1 20A3 108D AB97 These? :) BAH Branch And Hang BBBF Branch on Bit Bucket Full BBT Branch on Binary Tree BBW Branch Both Ways BCF Branch on Chip box Full BEW Branch Either Way BMR Branch Multiple Registers BOB Branch On Bug BOD Beat On Drum BOHP Bribe Operator for Higher Priority BOI Byte Operator Immediately BPDI Be Polite, Don't Interrupt BPM Branch on the Phase of the Moon BPO Branch on Power Off BSST BackSpace and Stretch Tape CEMU Close eyes and monkey with user space CLBR Clobber register CLBRI Clobber register immediately CM Circulate memory CPAR Crumple paper and rip CRB Crash and burn CRE Create Random Error CRR Convert to Roman Numerals CU Convert to Unary CUN Cancel all User Numbers CZZC Convert zone to ZIP code DC Divide and conquer DMPK Destroy memory protect key DMV Double mains voltage DNPG Do not pass go DO Divide and overflow DWIMNWIS Do what I mean, not what I say EIOC Execute invalid opcode EIS Encrypt Instruction Set EMCP Eject math co-processor EMPC Emulate pocket calculator EMW Emulate Maytag Washer EPI Execute programmer immediately ERD Eject Removable Disk EROS Erase read-only storage EXOI EXecute Operator Immediately EXOP Execute Operator EXPP Execute Political Prisoner FSRA Forms skip and run away GFD Go forth and divide GFM Go forth and multiply HCF Halt and Catch Fire (IBM 360/63 did this at CIT once) IA Illogical And IBP Insert bug and proceed IIB Ignore inquiry and branch JDO Jump and Destroy Operator KCE Kill Consultant on Error LCC Load and Clear Core MBF Multiply and Be Fruitful MST Mount Scotch Tape MVAR Move to Random Address MVLR Move and Lose Record OHS Order Ham Sandwich PBC Print and break chain PD Play dead PDM Play Drum Memory (dated, wot?) PDSK Punch disk PI Punch invalid PLSC Perform Light Show on Console PM Punch Memory POPI Punch operator immediately PPS Push or Pop Stack (6502 does this sometimes) PS Print and Smear PS* Punch obscenity PSD Pause and smoke dope PVLC Punch variable length card RBT Rewind and Break Tape RCSD Read Card and Scramble Deck RD Reverse directions RDS Read sideways RFSC Read Feed and Shred Card RIRG Read inter-record gap RPB Read Print and Blush RPM Read programmer's mind RSC Read and shred card RSD On read error self destruct RSD Read and Shuffle Deck RSTOM Read from store-only memory RWCR Rewind card reader RWM Rewind Memory RWRT Read While Ripping Tape SD Scatter Deck SHAB Shift a bit SHLBM Shift a little bit more SMR Skip on meaningless result SOT Sit on a tack SPD SPin dry Disk SPOFF Switch processor off SPON Switch processor on SQPC Sit quietly and play with your crayons SQSW Scramble program status word SRSD Seek record and scar disk SRZ Subtract and reset to Zero SSD Seek and Scar Disk SSJ Select stacker and jam STROM Store in read-only memory TDB Transfer and drop bits TSE Test and Swap if Equal TSTT Test a Bit for Two UER Update and Erase Record UMH Use Mains Voltage as Logic High WBT Water binary tree WEMG Write eighteen-minute gap WPM Write programmer's mind WRC Write on Read-Cycle XSP Execute Systems Programmer Cheers, -skots -- Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor@mrynet.com MRY Systems staylor@mrynet.lv (Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots") ----- Labak miris neka sarkans ----- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 29 20:41:52 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Commodore 3040 drive problem + A1000 keyboard. In-Reply-To: <001001bf525d$4f9898a0$2fe3dfd0@cobweb.net> from "Bill Dawson" at Dec 29, 99 07:32:10 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1488 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991230/d86b5cd9/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 29 21:11:31 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: A good bit.. In-Reply-To: from "LordTyran" at Dec 29, 99 09:30:07 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 30200 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991230/c3f88224/attachment.ksh From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Dec 29 21:31:32 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? Message-ID: <199912300331.WAA10246@world.std.com> References: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19991229194022.009319b0@mail.bluefeathertech.com> At 18:40 29-12-1999 -0800, you wrote: >Does anyone still have a copy of the proposed extended 360 instructions? >It included such things as: I still have it in paper form. I've been meaning to transcribe it to electronic, and start passing it around, but haven't gotten to it as yet. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Owner and head honcho, Blue Feather Technologies http://www.bluefeathertech.com // E-mail: kyrrin@bluefeathertech.com Amateur Radio: WD6EOS since Dec. '77 "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From dylanb at sympatico.ca Wed Dec 29 20:55:50 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? Message-ID: <001201bf5271$61d82300$ee2cd1d8@default> -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, December 29, 1999 10:34 PM Subject: Re: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? > >An aside, in the PDP-11 realm the Qbus 11s like the 11/23 series are by I really like "plug and play" Qbus systems but I don't think there is a paper tape interface nor a DECTape one? >far the easiest to get configured and going. the Unibus machines require >a much higher load of knowledge of small bits like what bus level jumpers >must be where and all. > Not too much more.. I have been restoring them for a long time.. the older ones are a bit of a pain as they had so many revisions of the same CPU. I was hoping to use 34s as they are they quickest to fix,rarely die, worth little before and after being abused, and quite dependable. >The beauty if that a 11/73 series will run most PDP-11 unix and PUPS has >the license for any version at $100 and also an archive of PDP-11 versions >of unix. > I would really like to run Unix on a PDP-11 (hopefully a 45 with all core and FPU) but have never found the software. > >I do have RT-11 V3 and V4 on TU58 still. I should dig them out and see if >they can still be read (I have three solid TU58s). > >Allison > > > From Glenatacme at aol.com Wed Dec 29 23:41:52 1999 From: Glenatacme at aol.com (Glenatacme@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Keyboard needed for Amstrad 1512 or Sinclair PC500 Message-ID: <0.53ce3d01.259c4aa0@aol.com> Anybody have a working one they'd like to part with? Glen 0/0 From ernestls at home.com Thu Dec 30 01:36:33 1999 From: ernestls at home.com (Ernest) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Transcopy 3 Central Point Software card? In-Reply-To: <000101bf51ca$baff4b40$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> Message-ID: <000001bf5298$995bcc60$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> I have a small ISA card produced by Central Point Software (1987) with a chip on it that reads "Transcopy 3." I'm assuming that this is one of those cards that you could use to copy protected software disks. Is that right? My question is; how do you use it? It has a floppy type cable coming off of one end, and an empty connector next to it for, I assume, a second floppy cable. Has anyone used one of these before? Do I need special software for it? Thanks for your help. Ernest leucoplast@seanet.com From black at gco.apana.org.au Thu Dec 30 01:47:18 1999 From: black at gco.apana.org.au (Lance Lyon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Commodore 3040 drive problem + A1000 keyboard. References: <001001bf525d$4f9898a0$2fe3dfd0@cobweb.net> Message-ID: <006201bf529a$1b0a14f0$dfdfdfdf@landover> Thanks to all those who replied..... > 3040 - European 4040, like the 3000 series PETS? Same as the CBM 2040 I'm led to believe. cheers, Lance From wilson at dbit.dbit.com Thu Dec 30 01:54:58 1999 From: wilson at dbit.dbit.com (John Wilson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: A good bit.. Message-ID: <199912300754.CAA26477@dbit.dbit.com> RPI had the usual variations to these gag opcode lists floating around too. I don't know where I put my hardcopy, but the ones that stick in my mind are: ECB Eject chad box EDI Eject disk immediate HCF Halt and Catch Fire (this was already posted here, but I liked the fact that the RPI list emphasized the fact that it requires privilege) I wish I knew where that printout was (IIRC the file was named ACM.:WORDS and was cobbled together from various scraps, probably mostly from the outside world), there was a lot of other nice stuff, of interest only to "power" nerds. John Wilson D Bit From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Dec 30 04:10:24 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: font used for pdp11 logo? Message-ID: <19991230041023.C2150@mrbill.net> Anybody know the name of the font used for the "pdp11" logo (as seen at the top of www.pdp11.org)? I'd love to be able to do some other stuff with the same "look", but doing it by hand in a graphics program is doing it the hard way... bill -- +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ |Bill Bradford | mrbill@pdp11.org | mrbill@mrbill.net | |http://www.sunhelp.org | http://www.pdp11.org | http://www.mrbill.net| +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ From pete at dunnington.u-net.com Thu Dec 30 06:15:43 1999 From: pete at dunnington.u-net.com (Pete Turnbull) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: font used for pdp11 logo? In-Reply-To: Bill Bradford "font used for pdp11 logo?" (Dec 30, 4:10) References: <19991230041023.C2150@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <9912301215.ZM6158@indy.dunnington.u-net.com> On Dec 30, 4:10, Bill Bradford wrote: > Anybody know the name of the font used for the "pdp11" logo (as seen > at the top of www.pdp11.org)? I'd love to be able to do some other stuff > with the same "look", but doing it by hand in a graphics program is doing > it the hard way... It's not all the same font (unless someone made one up specially). The letters "pdp" are a tweaked version of Futura (ither Medium or Book, I can't remember which). BTW, the "11" doesn't look the same as on any of my PDP11 docs; normally, they're Helvetica Bold, but in the logo at the top of http://www.pdp11.org/, they're done in what appears to be a slightly-modified Futura. The "/34" or equivalent that you see in particular model numbers is normally also Helvetica, but stretched. I could give you a (scalable) PostScript copy of the "pdp11/34" logo if that would help... -- Pete Peter Turnbull Dept. of Computer Science University of York From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Dec 30 07:08:25 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? In-Reply-To: <001201bf5271$61d82300$ee2cd1d8@default> Message-ID: > I really like "plug and play" Qbus systems but I don't think there is a > paper tape interface nor a DECTape one? There is a paper tape interface PR04, I think and DECtapeII (tu58) is supported. As to other DECtape(TU60 casette, TU56 and TE16) I'm less certain. > Not too much more.. I have been restoring them for a long time.. the older > ones are a bit of a pain as they had so many revisions of the same CPU. I > was hoping to use 34s as they are they quickest to fix,rarely die, worth > little before and after being abused, and quite dependable. Yes, 34s are a great machine. > I would really like to run Unix on a PDP-11 (hopefully a 45 with all core > and FPU) but have never found the software. PUPS -> WWW.PUPS.ORG I'm running V7 on RL02 on an 11/73. They have an archive and license for binaries and sources for all (or nearly so) of the PDP-11 unix versions (at a minimum V5 through 2.11bsd). Allison From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Dec 30 07:24:03 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? Message-ID: <991230082403.24600ee3@trailing-edge.com> >I really like "plug and play" Qbus systems but I don't think there is a >paper tape interface nor a DECTape one? There certainly are paper tape interfaces - just about any serial card will do for that. If you want 20mA and reader control, a good choice is the DLV11-F or the plain old DLV11. >>The beauty if that a 11/73 series will run most PDP-11 unix and PUPS has >>the license for any version at $100 and also an archive of PDP-11 versions >>of unix. >I would really like to run Unix on a PDP-11 (hopefully a 45 with all core >and FPU) but have never found the software. You *aren't* working in a vacuum, you know :-). For the past several years, Bob Supnik's emulators have come with Unix V5 through V7 binary distributions (see ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/sim/ ), and Warren Toomey has an excellent archive available as well as easy terms for the Unix source license you'll need to access it (see http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/ and click on "PUPS". Note that Adfa is offline for the summer holidays - I think they're back up on Jan 3.) -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Dec 30 07:23:54 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors Message-ID: <199912301323.HAA00919@garcon.laidbak.com> I've been following the list for about a year and a half now and I'm curious -- you guys (both genders) that have the room and the know-how to run the big stuff -- what do you do with them? I guess I'm not that familiar with non-business apps for minis and I'm just curious what someone using a PDP at home would do with it? Do you just write code for the sheer challenge of writing code? Have you written real-world apps? Is it just nostalgia? Or do you keep them running purely for historical reasons and don't have any practical day-to-day use for them? It just fascinates me that there are so many of you who run these beasts and I'd just like to know why. Thanks. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From cfandt at netsync.net Thu Dec 30 08:27:10 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors In-Reply-To: <199912301323.HAA00919@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19991230090744.00af34c0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 07:23 AM 12/30/99 -0600, Paul Braun said something like: >I've been following the list for about a year and a half now and I'm >curious -- you guys (both genders) that have the room and the >know-how to run the big stuff -- what do you do with them? I guess >I'm not that familiar with non-business apps for minis and I'm just >curious what someone using a PDP at home would do with it? I'm still wondering that myself ;-) "Have the room . . ."? What's that?! :-) >Do you just write code for the sheer challenge of writing code? >Have you written real-world apps? Is it just nostalgia? Or do you >keep them running purely for historical reasons and don't have any >practical day-to-day use for them? Yes. > >It just fascinates me that there are so many of you who run these >beasts and I'd just like to know why. Well, to begin answering your question, merely change the wording of your questions in your second paragraph above so they read as statements. Most of us feel that way in one or more of those ways. Well, real-world applications are a stretch nowadays, but the rest and perhaps more still apply. Fixing and tinkering with the hardware is a biggie for some too. There are folks who ask me the same thing regarding my large collection of early radios and early televisions, some large and heavy. Same answers. I guess it follows even for folks collecting beer cans, comic books, automobiles, Louis IV furniture, first edition books, War of the Rebellion (US Civil War) armament, stamps and coins, Barbie dolls, Rosewood China, Depression and Carnival glassware, Victorian era clothing, etc., etc., etc., etc. . . . Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From kstumpf at unusual.on.ca Fri Dec 31 08:55:34 1999 From: kstumpf at unusual.on.ca (Kevin Stumpf/Unusual Systems) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors References: <199912301323.HAA00919@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: <001901bf539f$1808d240$9e81b7d1@kstumpf> ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Braun To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:23 AM Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors > I've been following the list for about a year and a half now and I'm > curious -- you guys (both genders) that have the room and the > know-how to run the big stuff -- what do you do with them? I guess > I'm not that familiar with non-business apps for minis and I'm just > curious what someone using a PDP at home would do with it? > Point of order here. Minicomputers can only be called "big iron" when compared to microcomputers. As a mainframe enthusiast big iron intuitively refers to IBM 360/370-type computers. This is not being pedantic. It is being precise. Some subscribers to this list have never seen a real mainframe, but that doesn't mean mainframes never existed. Nor does it permit us to ignore them. For this one time it's OK to refer to minicomputers as big iron - note I am joking- but seriously folks, we must expand our knowledge of that which we collect. First there were mainframes, then minicomputers, and then microcomputers. And now back to the original purpose of the thread. Yours in good faith. From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Dec 30 10:11:51 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:29 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991230090744.00af34c0@206.231.8.2> References: <199912301323.HAA00919@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: <199912301512.QAA14040@mail2.siemens.de> Date sent: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:27:10 -0500 Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu From: Christian Fandt To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: Question for you 'big iron' collectors > Upon the date 07:23 AM 12/30/99 -0600, Paul Braun said something like: > >I've been following the list for about a year and a half now and I'm > >curious -- you guys (both genders) that have the room and the > >know-how to run the big stuff -- what do you do with them? I guess > >I'm not that familiar with non-business apps for minis and I'm just > >curious what someone using a PDP at home would do with it? > I'm still wondering that myself ;-) "Have the room . . ."? What's that?! :-) :)) Chritian, you have a wonderfull house ... and still room in the basement ... And Paul, to get this straight, a PDP isn't realy Big Iron - unless you name your Palm Pilot a full size server system. > >Do you just write code for the sheer challenge of writing code? > >Have you written real-world apps? Is it just nostalgia? Or do you > >keep them running purely for historical reasons and don't have any > >practical day-to-day use for them? > Yes. Historical reasons, Ways to finaly get what you ever dreamed of (20 years ago) and play around ? Just fun. > >It just fascinates me that there are so many of you who run these > >beasts and I'd just like to know why. > There are folks who ask me the same thing regarding my large collection of > early radios and early televisions, some large and heavy. Same answers. In fact, the situation is very similar - if you ignore this digital radio and TV chanals you still can use your 30 year old TV set to see Letterman, with no relevant difference (And when they air I love Lucy or Flipper, not difference at all:). > I guess it follows even for folks collecting beer cans, comic books, > automobiles, Louis IV furniture, first edition books, War of the Rebellion > (US Civil War) armament, stamps and coins, Barbie dolls, Rosewood China, > Depression and Carnival glassware, Victorian era clothing, etc., etc., > etc., etc. . . . Hmm at least for my person there's still a difference - unlike a lot of collectors in other areas I realy tinker tith my computers. Some owners of 'classic' furniture would rather go balistic when you just upt a glass on top. Anyway, Fun Fun Fun. Servus H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Dec 30 09:45:38 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (allisonp@world.std.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors In-Reply-To: <199912301323.HAA00919@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: > Do you just write code for the sheer challenge of writing code? > Have you written real-world apps? Is it just nostalgia? Or do you > keep them running purely for historical reasons and don't have any > practical day-to-day use for them? Yes to all save for the last bit. Like any computer unless it's broken there is always a practical day to day use. Even the most limited machines are useful for teaching computer fundementals or word processing for examples. > It just fascinates me that there are so many of you who run these > beasts and I'd just like to know why. Everest! It's there. Though that is often at best a partial reason. All too often the assumption is OLD .EQ. USELESS and that is invalid all too often. My old Z80 crate (northstar* Horizon ca1978) is an excellent text editing system and also has a potload of really good cross assemblers for other CPUs some still widely used (8051 series). Not bad for a 21 year old system. Allison From cfandt at netsync.net Thu Dec 30 10:42:05 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors In-Reply-To: <199912301512.QAA14040@mail2.siemens.de> References: <4.1.19991230090744.00af34c0@206.231.8.2> <199912301323.HAA00919@garcon.laidbak.com> Message-ID: <4.1.19991230111548.00aebf10@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 04:12 PM 12/30/99 +0001, Hans Franke said something like: >Date sent: Thu, 30 Dec 1999 09:27:10 -0500 >Send reply to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >From: Christian Fandt >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > >Subject: Re: Question for you 'big iron' collectors > >> Upon the date 07:23 AM 12/30/99 -0600, Paul Braun said something like: >> >I've been following the list for about a year and a half now and I'm >> >curious -- you guys (both genders) that have the room and the >> >know-how to run the big stuff -- what do you do with them? I guess >> >I'm not that familiar with non-business apps for minis and I'm just >> >curious what someone using a PDP at home would do with it? > >> I'm still wondering that myself ;-) "Have the room . . ."? What's that?! :-) > >:)) Chritian, you have a wonderfull house ... and still room in >the basement ... Oh ho ho! Not now fella!!! :-) Thanks for the compliment about the house, but _a lot_ has been moved into it and the attic from the old house since you and Christine visited last year. The second garage at the back of the backyard (garden) is full too (or I should say "too full") and the main garage at the house still has much of the big DEC gear in it (soon to go to a new home :-) Nice lab area in the basement now though . Next time you visit you'll be pleasantly surprised. It's in that dark, dirty open area you may recall seeing. > >And Paul, to get this straight, a PDP isn't realy Big Iron - unless >you name your Palm Pilot a full size server system. Wel-llll, my 11/34A is in a tall rack and with two RL02's, cables and accessories it probably weighs in at around 400 lbs (180+ kg). An 11/44 I understand can be big. Certain PDP-8's too. So it's argueable that some are 'big iron' machines. My 34A is in the basement in the lab area next to its LA120. OTOH, my MicroPDP setting next to me is only around 75 lbs or so (~34 kg). > >> >Do you just write code for the sheer challenge of writing code? >> >Have you written real-world apps? Is it just nostalgia? Or do you >> >keep them running purely for historical reasons and don't have any >> >practical day-to-day use for them? > >> Yes. > >Historical reasons, Ways to finaly get what you ever dreamed >of (20 years ago) and play around ? Just fun. > >> >It just fascinates me that there are so many of you who run these >> >beasts and I'd just like to know why. > >> There are folks who ask me the same thing regarding my large collection of >> early radios and early televisions, some large and heavy. Same answers. > >In fact, the situation is very similar - if you ignore this digital >radio and TV chanals you still can use your 30 year old TV set to >see Letterman, with no relevant difference (And when they air >I love Lucy or Flipper, not difference at all:). Yes. We know someday in the next century (beginning a _year_ from now ;-) all TV will be digital and we'll have to use the planned digital to analog conversion devices to use them. There was absolutely no concept of digital TV back in the late 40's when a bunch of my sets were made. > >> I guess it follows even for folks collecting beer cans, comic books, >> automobiles, Louis IV furniture, first edition books, War of the Rebellion >> (US Civil War) armament, stamps and coins, Barbie dolls, Rosewood China, >> Depression and Carnival glassware, Victorian era clothing, etc., etc., >> etc., etc. . . . > >Hmm at least for my person there's still a difference - unlike >a lot of collectors in other areas I realy tinker tith my computers. Yeah, you're right Hans. What clear-minded person would tinker with a Barbie doll? :-o >Some owners of 'classic' furniture would rather go balistic when >you just upt a glass on top. Instant death comes to the unfortunate soul who dares to do that. > > >Anyway, Fun Fun Fun. Oh yeah, _that's_ really why we do this! > >Servus >H. > >-- Bis spaeter, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From dylanb at sympatico.ca Thu Dec 30 10:36:59 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? Message-ID: <004a01bf52e4$1820ff20$2d26d1d8@default> -----Original Message----- From: CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:24 AM Subject: Re: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? >>I really like "plug and play" Qbus systems but I don't think there is a >>paper tape interface nor a DECTape one? > >There certainly are paper tape interfaces - just about any serial card will >do for that. If you want 20mA and reader control, a good choice is the DLV11-F >or the plain old DLV11. > I was hoping to use a PC05. Guess I will find a PR/S01 on the next trip... >>>The beauty if that a 11/73 series will run most PDP-11 unix and PUPS has >>>the license for any version at $100 and also an archive of PDP-11 versions >>>of unix. > >>I would really like to run Unix on a PDP-11 (hopefully a 45 with all core >>and FPU) but have never found the software. > >You *aren't* working in a vacuum, you know :-). For the past several Until I got on this list that is what it felt like. Most people don't know about this list and only have access to the info available on the newsgroups or peoples pages which tends to be incomplete. >years, Bob Supnik's emulators have come with Unix V5 through V7 >binary distributions (see ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/sim/ ), I have been told that the software there *only* runs on the simulator. Will the software on the site listed above run on real hardware or was it modified to only run on the simulators? I was told by a list member that the RT11 there will not run on real hardware. >and Warren Toomey has an excellent archive available as well as >easy terms for the Unix source license you'll need to access it >(see http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/ and click on "PUPS". Note >that Adfa is offline for the summer holidays - I think they're >back up on Jan 3.) > >-- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 > From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 30 11:52:15 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Central Point "Option" card Was: Transcopy 3 In-Reply-To: <000001bf5298$995bcc60$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Dec 1999, Ernest wrote: > I have a small ISA card produced by Central Point Software (1987) with a > chip on it that reads "Transcopy 3." I'm assuming that this is one of those > cards that you could use to copy protected software disks. Is that right? > My question is; how do you use it? It has a floppy type cable coming off of > one end, and an empty connector next to it for, I assume, a second floppy > cable. Has anyone used one of these before? Do I need special software for > it? The card "intercepts" the cable between the floppy controller and the drives. It comes with TC.EXE for copying "uncopyable" disks, and TE.EXE for examining/editing disks at barely aboce a flux-transition level. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 From healyzh at aracnet.com Thu Dec 30 11:52:35 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991230111548.00aebf10@206.231.8.2> References: <199912301512.QAA14040@mail2.siemens.de> <4.1.19991230090744.00af34c0@206.231.8.2> Message-ID: >Wel-llll, my 11/34A is in a tall rack and with two RL02's, cables and >accessories it probably weighs in at around 400 lbs (180+ kg). An 11/44 I >understand can be big. Certain PDP-8's too. So it's argueable that some are Well, my 11/44 in the garage is two racks, one rack has the CPU, TU58's and RX02's, the other a pair of RL02's and the terminal distribution panel. Then there is the racks with the TU81+ and 2 RL01's, 1 RL02, and 2 RA90's in one of my storage units that go with it. >'big iron' machines. My 34A is in the basement in the lab area next to its >LA120. OTOH, my MicroPDP setting next to me is only around 75 lbs or so >(~34 kg). Hmmm, my /73 sitting next to me is housed in a MV2 BA123 with a VT420/LA75 sitting on top of it. Never have gotten the external RX02 cabinet I got for it hooked up, that might end up on my PDP-8/m though... As for what do I do with all these? Well, they tend to be more fun that computer games, though they do take up more room :^( Besides you've not lived till you've played Pacman under RT-11 :^) Plus I actually like using the PDP-11/73 running RT-11 for TELNETing into my ISP and reading news. Also my VMS Cluster takes most of a 6' rack, and another 4' pile on a typing table (that's without all the VAXen I'm not using at the moment), and I do actually use the cluster for quite a few things. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From pat at transarc.ibm.com Thu Dec 30 12:01:00 1999 From: pat at transarc.ibm.com (Pat Barron) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? In-Reply-To: <004a01bf52e4$1820ff20$2d26d1d8@default> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Dec 1999, John B wrote: > >years, Bob Supnik's emulators have come with Unix V5 through V7 > >binary distributions (see ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/sim/ ), > > I have been told that the software there *only* runs on the simulator. Will > the software on the site listed above run on real hardware or was it > modified to only run on the simulators? I was told by a list member that the > RT11 there will not run on real hardware. I can't think of any reason why the RT-11 there would not run on real hardware. However, that particular distribution is only *licensed* for use with the simulator - the terms of the license under which it was made available don't permit its use on real hardware. --Pat. From CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com Thu Dec 30 12:01:42 1999 From: CLASSICCMP at trailing-edge.com (CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? Message-ID: <991230130142.24600efb@trailing-edge.com> >>>I would really like to run Unix on a PDP-11 (hopefully a 45 with all core >>>and FPU) but have never found the software. >> >>You *aren't* working in a vacuum, you know :-). For the past several > >Until I got on this list that is what it felt like. Most people don't know >about this list and only have access to the info available on the newsgroups >or peoples pages which tends to be incomplete. Since I work hard to let people know about the archives of PDP-11 software already out there on the net and on CD-ROM, I'd be interested in knowing where (exactly!) you looked and how you came to the conclusion that there was a vacuum. >>years, Bob Supnik's emulators have come with Unix V5 through V7 >>binary distributions (see ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/sim/ ), >I have been told that the software there *only* runs on the simulator. Nope, it'll run on the real deal too. You have to be a bit careful: most of the old Unices there think they're running on a Unibus machine, so if you run them on a Q-bus machine some funny things will happen if you go above 256K due to the lack of a Unibus map. (This applies to the simulator, too, since it emulates a 11/53!) > Will >the software on the site listed above run on real hardware or was it >modified to only run on the simulators? I was told by a list member that the >RT11 there will not run on real hardware. I think you're confusing "it can't" with "you aren't supposed to". The hobbyist license that Supnik worked out only allows you to run the software under his (or another DEC) emulator. There's talk about a very much more permissive license deal coming up, but the talk is - so far - just talk, and it could get nixed by the lawyers simply taking inaction on it. If and when it does turn solid, you can bet that this mailing list will be one of the first places you hear about it. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 From dylanb at sympatico.ca Thu Dec 30 10:55:03 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors Message-ID: <005501bf52e6$9ddb1680$2d26d1d8@default> >-----Original Message----- >From: Paul Braun >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 8:24 AM >Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors > >I've been following the list for about a year and a half now and I'm >curious -- you guys (both genders) that have the room and the >know-how to run the big stuff -- what do you do with them? I guess >I'm not that familiar with non-business apps for minis and I'm just >curious what someone using a PDP at home would do with it? > >Do you just write code for the sheer challenge of writing code? >Have you written real-world apps? Is it just nostalgia? Or do you >keep them running purely for historical reasons and don't have any >practical day-to-day use for them? Quite a few large companies still run the old stuff. Ontario Hydro for one still runs many PDP-8s and still buys RK05 heads. In some cases it is cheaper to run the old stuff than to get new hardware approved for use. I had a really weird contract in '92-93 that required a cpu to monitor and run quite a few sensors in a very hostile environment (we are talking sodium cyanide and sulfuric acid in the same sealed room -- HCN byproducts - yuck) for an experiment. A PC would last a day or two with such gases so I concluded it would be cheaper to wheel in a PDP11/34 with a bunch of A/D and DR11-Cs in it. We did so and the 11/34s lasted about a week and a half before the chemicals ate away enough of a PCB trace to cause the CPU/RK05 to fail. Went through 3 of them in a couple of months and the experiment succeeded. These old minis can take a lot of abuse... and they are great for real-time data acquisition. For the most part now it is just collecting..... john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 30 12:08:55 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Subject : Re: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? In-Reply-To: <991230130142.24600efb@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On this list, how long after a subject has changed completely does it take before somebody will update the subject line in the header? (system software for running Unix is NOT about how to keep paper tape from crumbling from its own acids) From wilson at dbit.dbit.com Thu Dec 30 12:19:31 1999 From: wilson at dbit.dbit.com (John Wilson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors Message-ID: <199912301819.NAA27398@dbit.dbit.com> >From: "Paul Braun" >It just fascinates me that there are so many of you who run these >beasts and I'd just like to know why. It's common for people to laugh at the old minis, but the thing is, back when they first came out everyone thought they were *wicked* cool. And what's changed? Unless you've gotten seriously behind on maintenance, they haven't gotten any worse just because the rest of the computing world has moved ahead (sort of). They're as great as they ever were. Also, everything that's been done over the last 30 years will all be seen as totally obsolete 10 years from now, including the seemingly flashy stuff that's being done right now. The idea of immediately adopting every steaming pile of new software laid by Bill Gates, just to keep up, doesn't appeal to a lot of people. So if you're going to pick something to stick with for as long as possible, why not pick the last system that you were actually *glad* to use? Then there's the issue of forward compatibility. 5 years ago MS-DOS was still pretty entrenched, but now it's as if it never existed. There are supposed DOS compatibility boxes in the newer OSes but they never seem to be able to run the one program you really care about. I'm sure this will repeat itself with native Windows etc. applications, and UNIX has always been a moving target, so if you write your software for one of those systems you'll probably have to revisit it (and maybe totally rewrite it) every couple of years for the rest of your life. Even if the OSes don't grow huge incompatibilities (which they will), the C language itself is long overdue for fading away. And the real trouble starts when your favorite language falls out of favor -- try to find an Algol compiler nowadays! But, I assure you that 15 years from now I'll still have some way to run all of my RT-11 MACRO-11 code unchanged. Just like it's already possible to run all my stuff from 15 years ago unchanged. New PDP-11 clone CPUs are still coming out even now (which means they'll depreciate to hobbyist price levels in a few years), and of course emulators make your code live even longer (but maybe I'm biased!). The PDP-11 environment is a lot better suited to being emulated than PCs are, so even though there might be a way to keep current versions of Windows awake on future non-80x86 CPUs, I still prefer to write PDP-11 code when it's something I want to bring with me onto future machines. John Wilson D Bit From dylanb at sympatico.ca Thu Dec 30 11:25:33 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: PDP software archives was: Re: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? Message-ID: <006e01bf52ea$e10cca80$2d26d1d8@default> >Since I work hard to let people know about the archives of PDP-11 software >already out there on the net and on CD-ROM, I'd be interested in knowing >where (exactly!) you looked and how you came to the conclusion that there >was a vacuum. > I'll post a message about that whole topic tomorrow. Quite a few people I know working with this equipment have never heard of this message list nor found the OS images on the internet. To go one step further, old DEC (now compaq) told me outright "We thought you were a hoax. Who in the world would want this old junk" - they were talking about PDP1,PDP-8,and PDP-11 hardware and software.. talking about the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing.... :-) >>>years, Bob Supnik's emulators have come with Unix V5 through V7 >>>binary distributions (see ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/sim/ ), > >>I have been told that the software there *only* runs on the simulator. > >Nope, it'll run on the real deal too. You have to be a bit careful: Again, I take it these images are not "distribution sets". I a hoping to post all the distribution sets of the various PDP-8/11 OS soon (sysgen stuff). Really need that for old hardware. For years I needed drivers or pieces of RT11 only to find numerous sites with "RT11 programs, DECUS , etc.." but not the real install media. I only ever got all this stuff from purchasing large systems from factories.. Now it's easier.. I am getting it all from the source. >most of the old Unices there think they're running on a Unibus >machine, so if you run them on a Q-bus machine some funny things >will happen if you go above 256K due to the lack of a Unibus map. >(This applies to the simulator, too, since it emulates a 11/53!) > >> Will >>the software on the site listed above run on real hardware or was it >>modified to only run on the simulators? I was told by a list member that the >>RT11 there will not run on real hardware. > >I think you're confusing "it can't" with "you aren't supposed to". I was actually told "can't". It would not run on QBUS stuff. Probably an error, no idea. >The hobbyist license that Supnik worked out only allows you to run the >software under his (or another DEC) emulator. There's talk about a >very much more permissive license deal coming up, but the talk is - >so far - just talk, and it could get nixed by the lawyers simply taking >inaction on it. If and when it does turn solid, you can bet that this >mailing list will be one of the first places you hear about it. > One would hope.... john http://www.pdp8.com/ From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Dec 30 14:25:53 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors In-Reply-To: <199912301819.NAA27398@dbit.dbit.com> Message-ID: <199912301926.UAA01242@mail2.siemens.de> > >It just fascinates me that there are so many of you who run these > >beasts and I'd just like to know why. > It's common for people to laugh at the old minis, but the thing is, > back when they first came out everyone thought they were *wicked* cool. > And what's changed? Unless you've gotten seriously behind on maintenance, > they haven't gotten any worse just because the rest of the computing world > has moved ahead (sort of). They're as great as they ever were. And to give a real recent example, we may look at the Apple Newton. A bit more than a year ago, the 2000 was mega hyper super top notch technology, then Apple decided (or better the dammed Jobs) that there is no place for a device like that. Within moments a lot of people where refering to the Newton as a dead old outdated thig ... just, where is the new, better device ? and even more, did all Newtons suddenly stop working just because of the decision to stop production ? I still love my Newt, and it is still the way most cool and powerfull (handheld) device around ... and all I can hope is that the rest may catch up within the next five years, so I can switch if my unit will show first signs of death... Just signs are prety bad that there will come anything close to the Newt within this timeframe. And the same is true for a lot of other old stuff. There is still no better Desktop system than the Xerox (remember the Copy/Move/Property keys ?) and there's still no better way to play Wizardry than on an A][ (no emulator includes the tactile pleasure of a Disk ][ drive calibrating and loading your characters :). Ok, skip the A][ part, thats personal history, but the Xerox desktop is still a real good example of a technological forerunner who has never been catched up by all the later stuff - likewise I assume the same for the Newt. And one can find examples all over - shure, there are not a lot (if we ignore the personal history stuff), but there a enough in every class where the original thing is still superior. A /370 still rules the landscape in every way, just since a small unix can do the same numer of whatever computation score, they are still like rats compared to a tiger ... Anyway Gruss H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Thu Dec 30 14:47:07 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors In-Reply-To: <4.1.19991230111548.00aebf10@206.231.8.2> References: <199912301512.QAA14040@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: <199912301948.UAA04455@mail2.siemens.de> > >> I'm still wondering that myself ;-) "Have the room . . ."? What's > >> that?! :-) > >:)) Chritian, you have a wonderfull house ... and still room in > >the basement ... > Oh ho ho! Not now fella!!! :-) Thanks for the compliment about the house, > but _a lot_ has been moved into it and the attic from the old house since > you and Christine visited last year. The second garage at the back of the > backyard (garden) is full too (or I should say "too full") and the main > garage at the house still has much of the big DEC gear in it (soon to go to > a new home :-) Nice lab area in the basement now though . Next time you > visit you'll be pleasantly surprised. It's in that dark, dirty open area > you may recall seeing. Well, yes, I remember - great you had time to finish that. But ther's for shure some room in the garden ... as I remember one could build there a nice add on, cover the top with grass, and nobody will ever notice :) > >And Paul, to get this straight, a PDP isn't realy Big Iron - unless > >you name your Palm Pilot a full size server system. > Wel-llll, my 11/34A is in a tall rack and with two RL02's, cables and > accessories it probably weighs in at around 400 lbs (180+ kg). An 11/44 I > understand can be big. Certain PDP-8's too. So it's argueable that some are > 'big iron' machines. My 34A is in the basement in the lab area next to its > LA120. OTOH, my MicroPDP setting next to me is only around 75 lbs or so > (~34 kg). As long as on person can lift the CPU it's not Big Iron. At least when we go for pre 1990 Machines. Real Big Iron needs a forklift ... Shure, a simple definition, just I like it. > >> There are folks who ask me the same thing regarding my large collection of > >> early radios and early televisions, some large and heavy. Same answers. > >In fact, the situation is very similar - if you ignore this digital > >radio and TV chanals you still can use your 30 year old TV set to > >see Letterman, with no relevant difference (And when they air > >I love Lucy or Flipper, not difference at all:). > Yes. We know someday in the next century (beginning a _year_ from now ;-) > all TV will be digital and we'll have to use the planned digital to analog > conversion devices to use them. There was absolutely no concept of digital > TV back in the late 40's when a bunch of my sets were made. Starting with wide screen transmission some years ago it already got hard to have a 60's TV give you the whole movie. And the digital era is already present - at least some FM stations are up, and digital satelite and cable chanels are no longer future or testinstallations ... I feel that we may soon have a situation where the old stuff is just no longer usable on its own. Gruss H. -- Stimm gegen SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/de/ Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/en/ Votez contre le SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/fr/ Ich denke, also bin ich, also gut HRK From donm at cts.com Thu Dec 30 14:21:56 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? In-Reply-To: <991230082403.24600ee3@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Dec 1999 CLASSICCMP@trailing-edge.com wrote: > >I really like "plug and play" Qbus systems but I don't think there is a > >paper tape interface nor a DECTape one? > > There certainly are paper tape interfaces - just about any serial card will > do for that. If you want 20mA and reader control, a good choice is the DLV11-F > or the plain old DLV11. > > >>The beauty if that a 11/73 series will run most PDP-11 unix and PUPS has > >>the license for any version at $100 and also an archive of PDP-11 versions > >>of unix. > > >I would really like to run Unix on a PDP-11 (hopefully a 45 with all core > >and FPU) but have never found the software. > > You *aren't* working in a vacuum, you know :-). For the past several > years, Bob Supnik's emulators have come with Unix V5 through V7 > binary distributions (see ftp://ftp.digital.com/pub/DEC/sim/ ), > and Warren Toomey has an excellent archive available as well as > easy terms for the Unix source license you'll need to access it > (see http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/ and click on "PUPS". Note > that Adfa is offline for the summer holidays - I think they're > back up on Jan 3.) Aah! A subtle geographic reminder!! - don > -- > Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa@trailing-edge.com > Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ > 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 > Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 > From peter.pachla at wintermute.org.uk Thu Dec 30 11:24:05 1999 From: peter.pachla at wintermute.org.uk (Peter Pachla) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, References: Message-ID: <07be01bf5304$a8c635c0$09ea93c3@proteus> Hi Tony, > I think Apricot went on to make some 80286 and higher machines >that were basically PC-clones :-( Eventually yes. After the PC/Xi and "F" series machines they came out with the "Xen" family. These were in '286 based versions of the earlier PC/Xi machines, in a different case and with more expansion slots. They also produced another machine (which I've only ever seen once) which was '286 based and lived in an identical case to the PC/Xi, with the exception that it was light grey/white. I don't recall the model number, but I'm sure it was also IBM incompatible. It was after these that they joined the throng of clone manufacturers with the Xen-i and later.... BTW IF anyone in the UK wants a PC/Xi or a couple of the original Xens drop me a note, they're going free (or swaps for interesting bits if you insist). TTFN - Pete. -- Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer. Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC) peter.pachla@wintermute.org.uk | peter.pachla@wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk -- From peter.pachla at wintermute.org.uk Thu Dec 30 11:16:28 1999 From: peter.pachla at wintermute.org.uk (Peter Pachla) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, References: Message-ID: <07bd01bf5304$a7768440$09ea93c3@proteus> Hi Tony, > If the 'front' is one of the smaller sides, then it's not an >original PC. It might (I think) be an F1, though. With two drives it would be an F2, the F1 and F-10 (hard disc model) had just the one floppy drive in the front. TTFN - Pete. -- Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer. Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC) peter.pachla@wintermute.org.uk | peter.pachla@wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk -- From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Dec 30 14:36:04 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: A good bit.. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991230153604.009858e0@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that Tony Duell may have mentioned these words: > SEX Set EXecution register [a real instruction for the RCA > 1802" > SEX Sign EXtend FWIW, that's also a real instruction for the Moto 6809 (as Sign EXtend - it extends the MSB of the B register into A register). > ZZZ hibernate indefinite I like that one -- way up here in the cold, snowy northern regions... ;-) Happy Holidaze, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From mrbill at mrbill.net Thu Dec 30 15:19:26 1999 From: mrbill at mrbill.net (Bill Bradford) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Power supply for GRiDcase 1535? Message-ID: <19991230151926.A7038@mrbill.net> Anybody know where I can pick up an AC power supply for this beast? Just got one in great shape, with battery pack, etc, for $9.95.... Bill -- +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ |Bill Bradford | mrbill@pdp11.org | mrbill@mrbill.net | |http://www.sunhelp.org | http://www.pdp11.org | http://www.mrbill.net| +-----------------------+----------------------+----------------------+ From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 30 15:27:14 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: OT: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? Message-ID: <001c01bf530c$a4d37e20$0400c0a8@winbook> I've seen occasional mention of the quantum 540 HDD on the list. Has anybody got the cylinder and head count available? thanx Dick From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 30 15:36:35 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: OT: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? In-Reply-To: <001c01bf530c$a4d37e20$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Dec 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > I've seen occasional mention of the quantum 540 HDD on the list. Has > anybody got the cylinder and head count available? WHICH "Quantum 540 HDD"? Quantum made a "Q-540" which was a 5.25"HH MFM with 8 heads, 512 cylinders (about 35MB). But some of the other Quantum lines, such as "ProDrive" or "GoDrive", all of the digits are capacity, and would therefore be a 540MB. -- Fred Cisin cisin@xenosoft.com XenoSoft http://www.xenosoft.com 2210 Sixth St. (510) 644-9366 Berkeley, CA 94710-2219 From thompson at mail.athenet.net Thu Dec 30 15:43:40 1999 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: AS400-C10 Message-ID: The above item fell into my possession today. It appears to be circa 1990, contains three hard disks (or DASD, if you prefer), a 150mb QIC tape drive, and a twinax interface card. The IBM web site indicates this machine supports a whopping 20MB of RAM and 2GB of hard drive space. It still has an OS on the disks if I can remember which drive went in which bay in the machine (or if the id is in the drive rather than the backplane) The IBM site is not forthcoming on additional details on the machine. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 30 12:51:57 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? In-Reply-To: <001201bf5271$61d82300$ee2cd1d8@default> from "John B" at Dec 29, 99 09:55:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1437 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991230/7c369483/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 30 12:55:10 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? In-Reply-To: <199912300331.WAA10246@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Dec 29, 99 10:31:32 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 697 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991230/686dfa16/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 30 13:09:53 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Has anyone found the best way to preserve paper tape software? In-Reply-To: from "allisonp@world.std.com" at Dec 30, 99 08:08:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 450 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991230/48d83585/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 30 13:16:29 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors In-Reply-To: <199912301323.HAA00919@garcon.laidbak.com> from "Paul Braun" at Dec 30, 99 07:23:54 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1838 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991230/be365201/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 30 17:52:34 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: OT: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? In-Reply-To: <001c01bf530c$a4d37e20$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991230175234.481fddd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Dick, If you mean a Q540, then Spininfo says 8 heads, 512 cylinders, RWC = WPC = 256, FH 5 1/4", 36 Mb, MFM. Joe At 02:27 PM 12/30/99 -0700, you wrote: >I've seen occasional mention of the quantum 540 HDD on the list. Has >anybody got the cylinder and head count available? > >thanx > >Dick > > From jallain at databaseamerica.com Thu Dec 30 16:22:19 1999 From: jallain at databaseamerica.com (John Allain) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? In-Reply-To: <001c01bf530c$a4d37e20$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <000001bf5314$566fc4c0$0e0301ac@dba00802.databaseamerica.com> Found this: Model Interface Capacity Cylinders Heads Sectors Q540 MFM 36MB 512 8 17 From cisin at xenosoft.com Thu Dec 30 16:46:44 1999 From: cisin at xenosoft.com (Fred Cisin (XenoSoft)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: How many bytes are there in a MegaByte? (was: OT: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991230175234.481fddd0@mailhost.intellistar.net> Message-ID: Three people (I was one) posted the specs of the Q-540, which may or may not be the 540 that Richard asked about. The Quantum GoDrive540, and Quantum ProDrive540 are DIFFERENT specs entirely with more than 10 times the capacity. > If you mean a Q540, then Spininfo says 8 heads, 512 cylinders, RWC = WPC > = 256, FH 5 1/4", 36 Mb, MFM. > Model Interface Capacity Cylinders Heads Sectors > Q540 MFM 36MB 512 8 17 BOTH of the references quoted call that "36MB". Simple arithmetic: 8 * 512 * 17 * 512 gives 35,651,584 IF a megabyte is 1048576, then that is exactly 34 megabytes. EVERYBODY here is capable of doing that multiplication. Are we going to completely give in to the SLEAZE and redefine meg as 1,000,000, and K as 1,000? Q: If IBM ran a donut shop, how many donuts would there be in a dozen? -- Grumpy Ol' Fred cisin@xenosoft.com From cfandt at netsync.net Thu Dec 30 16:55:54 1999 From: cfandt at netsync.net (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors In-Reply-To: <199912301948.UAA04455@mail2.siemens.de> References: <4.1.19991230111548.00aebf10@206.231.8.2> <199912301512.QAA14040@mail2.siemens.de> Message-ID: <4.1.19991230173909.00a23eb0@206.231.8.2> Upon the date 08:48 PM 12/30/99 +0001, Hans Franke said something like: >> >> I'm still wondering that myself ;-) "Have the room . . ."? What's >> >> that?! :-) >> >:)) Chritian, you have a wonderfull house ... and still room in >> >the basement ... > >> Oh ho ho! Not now fella!!! :-) Thanks for the compliment about the house, >> but _a lot_ has been moved into it and the attic from the old house since >> you and Christine visited last year. The second garage at the back of the >> backyard (garden) is full too (or I should say "too full") and the main >> garage at the house still has much of the big DEC gear in it (soon to go to >> a new home :-) Nice lab area in the basement now though . Next time you >> visit you'll be pleasantly surprised. It's in that dark, dirty open area >> you may recall seeing. > >Well, yes, I remember - great you had time to finish that. >But ther's for shure some room in the garden ... as I remember >one could build there a nice add on, cover the top with grass, >and nobody will ever notice :) Yes, and I'll have _you_ ask Beverly to allow it ;-) > >> >And Paul, to get this straight, a PDP isn't realy Big Iron - unless >> >you name your Palm Pilot a full size server system. > >> Wel-llll, my 11/34A is in a tall rack and with two RL02's, cables and >> accessories it probably weighs in at around 400 lbs (180+ kg). An 11/44 I >> understand can be big. Certain PDP-8's too. So it's argueable that some are >> 'big iron' machines. My 34A is in the basement in the lab area next to its >> LA120. OTOH, my MicroPDP setting next to me is only around 75 lbs or so >> (~34 kg). > >As long as on person can lift the CPU it's not Big Iron. At least >when we go for pre 1990 Machines. Real Big Iron needs a forklift ... >Shure, a simple definition, just I like it. Hmmm, this is a good definition :-) Still, the fully loaded BA11 box that my 11/34A is contained within is on the border of that definition. Some well conditioned, weight lifting athletic type fellow could easily lift it. Even though my upper body strength was enhanced a little this Spring during The Great Move, I still cannot lift it alone except with difficulty. I estimate it weighs around 120+ lbs (55 kg). The CPU of my IBM 9370 (a 9375-60) weighs around 280 lbs (130 kg) and _that_ qualifies as big iron :-) even though I *could* have the whole system in a single tall cabinet similar in size to the single-rack 11/34A. > > >> >> There are folks who ask me the same thing regarding my large collection of >> >> early radios and early televisions, some large and heavy. Same answers. >> >In fact, the situation is very similar - if you ignore this digital >> >radio and TV chanals you still can use your 30 year old TV set to >> >see Letterman, with no relevant difference (And when they air >> >I love Lucy or Flipper, not difference at all:). > >> Yes. We know someday in the next century (beginning a _year_ from now ;-) >> all TV will be digital and we'll have to use the planned digital to analog >> conversion devices to use them. There was absolutely no concept of digital >> TV back in the late 40's when a bunch of my sets were made. > >Starting with wide screen transmission some years ago it already got >hard to have a 60's TV give you the whole movie. And the digital era >is already present - at least some FM stations are up, and digital >satelite and cable chanels are no longer future or testinstallations ... Even digital AM broadcast is appearing occasionally in North America. > >I feel that we may soon have a situation where the old stuff is just >no longer usable on its own. At least virtually all our old computers should work on their own :-) provided we can still get floppy disks, magnetic tape and other removeable media for them (if they use it) as that stuff wears out eventually. Should still be the same 120/240 volt 50/60 Hz mains worldwide. Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA cfandt@netsync.net Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.antiquewireless.org/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 30 16:04:21 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, In-Reply-To: <07be01bf5304$a8c635c0$09ea93c3@proteus> from "Peter Pachla" at Dec 30, 99 05:24:05 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1470 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991230/2770d296/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 30 16:11:26 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors In-Reply-To: <199912301819.NAA27398@dbit.dbit.com> from "John Wilson" at Dec 30, 99 01:19:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1910 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991230/d7e6b1e6/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 30 16:21:54 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: A good bit.. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19991230153604.009858e0@127.0.0.1> from "Roger Merchberger" at Dec 30, 99 03:36:04 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 540 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991230/aa799447/attachment.ksh From arfonrg at texas.net Thu Dec 30 17:30:45 1999 From: arfonrg at texas.net (Arfon Gryffydd) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Power supply for GRiDcase 1535? In-Reply-To: <19991230151926.A7038@mrbill.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991230173045.02dd5740@207.207.0.212> >Anybody know where I can pick up an AC power supply for this beast? Just >got one in great shape, with battery pack, etc, for $9.95.... I have a Grid 1350 and the supply should be the same. It takes 12-20V DC at about 2A (to start the HD spinning). It uses a regular barrel connector. I made a Car adapter (Lighter plug and barrel connector) and I use a Dell 18V power adapter. I can not remember which contact is + but, just take an ohm meter and ground one lead to the case and use the other to find the - contact. I might have a spare Dell Adapter if you need one but, I cannot garantee it. A ---------------------------------------- Tired of Micro$oft??? Move up to a REAL OS... ######__ __ ____ __ __ _ __ # #####/ / / / / __ | / / / / | |/ /## ####/ / / / / / / / / / / / | /### ###/ /__ / / / / / / / /_/ / / |#### ##/____/ /_/ /_/ /_/ /_____/ /_/|_|#### # ###### ("LINUX" for those of you without fixed-width fonts) ---------------------------------------- Be a Slacker! http://www.slackware.com Slackware Mailing List: http://www.digitalslackers.net/linux/list.html From oliv555 at arrl.net Thu Dec 30 17:29:52 1999 From: oliv555 at arrl.net (Nick Oliviero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: DEC boards avail Message-ID: <386BEAF0.7A44382D@arrl.net> Got hold of some DEC boards here in SoCal that were about to be scrapped. Some were going to another list member, but haven't been able to get hold of him (Dave, let me know if you still need the 11/24 bd). These are rather obscure devices, 2 M3110's(hex), 2 M3111's(hex), 15 M3102's(dual), 1 M8743(hex 11/24 memory) and 1 EMC2 memory (hex-depopulated). Separately, I picked up a rather dusty quad M8350 ("positive IO bus interface" ??). Anyone interested in any of these should contact me off list before the weekend. Yours for the postage, probably not more than $5 to $6 for a couple of bds. Dont really want to haul these back home to Houston, so if no takers will return to scrapper. Happy New Year to all! Nick From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 30 19:31:53 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: 8089 was Re: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, In-Reply-To: References: <07be01bf5304$a8c635c0$09ea93c3@proteus> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991230193153.09ef7878@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 10:04 PM 12/30/99 +0000, you wrote: >> >a strange machine -- one of the few MS-DOS boxes to use an 8089 I/O >coprocessor (which I why I got interested in it -- nice chip). Hi Tony, I have an 8089 in a CPM machine but I haven't been able to find out much about that chip. What can you tell me about it? FWIW the same machine has ECC memory controller in it too but I don't remember it's number. Memory is in banks of 11 ICs! Joe From dylanb at sympatico.ca Thu Dec 30 16:33:28 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: DEC boards avail Message-ID: <000601bf5315$e4fbf780$2d26d1d8@default> I could use the M8350 interface. I don't know how many I will be getting yet, if any, but I could use that now in my 8E. I would pay $30 for it. john PDP-8 and other rare mini computers http://www.pdp8.com -----Original Message----- From: Nick Oliviero To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 6:29 PM Subject: DEC boards avail >Got hold of some DEC boards here in SoCal that were about to be >scrapped. Some were going to another list member, but haven't been able >to get hold of him (Dave, let me know if you still need the 11/24 bd). > >These are rather obscure devices, 2 M3110's(hex), 2 M3111's(hex), 15 >M3102's(dual), 1 M8743(hex 11/24 memory) and 1 EMC2 memory >(hex-depopulated). > >Separately, I picked up a rather dusty quad M8350 ("positive IO bus >interface" ??). Anyone interested in any of these should contact me off >list before the weekend. Yours for the postage, probably not more than >$5 to $6 for a couple of bds. Dont really want to haul these back home >to Houston, so if no takers will return to scrapper. > >Happy New Year to all! > >Nick > > From dylanb at sympatico.ca Thu Dec 30 16:36:34 1999 From: dylanb at sympatico.ca (John B) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: (sorry, disregard last message) Re: DEC boards avail Message-ID: <001a01bf5316$53919920$2d26d1d8@default> falling asleep here. john From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 30 17:53:51 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: 8089 was Re: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, Message-ID: <000601bf5321$20222cc0$0400c0a8@winbook> Well ... that i8089 has to be a slave processor to something else. The notion of CP/M for something other than the "BIG-3" i.e. 8080/8085/Z-80, seems unnatural to me. I you can find an OS that actually uses that i8089, I'll be surprised, but really interested. I've got one on an Intel iSBC215 "Versatile Hard Disk Controller" intended for goodness knows what, which I mistakenly bought back in the early '80's, thinking it would do something "wonderful" and worthy of study since it was so expensive. -Not so! - The 11-bit bit banks in those memories are halves of 22-bit words which are SECDED compatible for 16-bit words of data. Intel made a chipset to accomplish just that and it's probably the set on your board(s). Dick -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 4:35 PM Subject: 8089 was Re: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, > > >At 10:04 PM 12/30/99 +0000, you wrote: >>> > >>a strange machine -- one of the few MS-DOS boxes to use an 8089 I/O >>coprocessor (which I why I got interested in it -- nice chip). > > Hi Tony, I have an 8089 in a CPM machine but I haven't been able to find >out much about that chip. What can you tell me about it? > > FWIW the same machine has ECC memory controller in it too but I don't >remember it's number. Memory is in banks of 11 ICs! > > Joe > > > From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Dec 30 18:05:58 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: OT: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? Message-ID: <199912310005.TAA18156@world.std.com> < Model Interface Capacity Cylinders Heads Sectors < Q540 MFM 36MB 512 8 17 Actually 42mb unformatted and despeding on controller 31-36mb formatted. They work real well with WD1005 or 1007 controllers (RLL) for around 42-44mb. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Dec 30 18:06:21 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors Message-ID: <199912310006.TAA18287@world.std.com> Actually this is not hardware specific but echos the points many have made. Stable mature systems we know how to use. Really CPM may have bugs but, they are known, true for many small and larger machines that are aging. This beats a lot of new hardware and software where buggyness is a grand unknown while work MUST be done. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Dec 30 18:17:53 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: 8089 was Re: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Message-ID: <199912310017.TAA23407@world.std.com> < Hi Tony, I have an 8089 in a CPM machine but I haven't been able to fin from "Joe" at Dec 30, 99 07:31:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 827 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991231/48115fa3/attachment.ksh From zmerch at 30below.com Thu Dec 30 19:22:41 1999 From: zmerch at 30below.com (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: AS400-C10 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991230202241.00a9b730@127.0.0.1> Rumor has it that Paul Thompson may have mentioned these words: >The IBM site is not forthcoming on additional details on the machine. >>From a quick once over the disk/DASD appear to be SCSI, as does the QIC >tape. Can anyone confirm? Sorry, no. Haven't seen the innards of an AS/400 much... >Any other information would be helpful as well. I will probably be >spending the evening looking for recovery procedures for lost >"root/system/whatever" password...what is it on the 400? AFAICR, one of the most powerful logins is QSECOPR (security operator) and should have access to darned near everything (if not everything) on the system. I have a friend that did a *lot* of work on the AS/400's and might be able to lend a hand... I'll ask tomorrow. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger "Merch" Merchberger --- sysadmin, Iceberg Computers Recycling is good, right??? Ok, so I'll recycle an old .sig. If at first you don't succeed, nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* be your first career choice. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Dec 30 21:49:09 1999 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: 8089 was Re: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, In-Reply-To: <000601bf5321$20222cc0$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19991230214909.41df1912@mailhost.intellistar.net> At 04:53 PM 12/30/99 -0700, Richard wrote: >Well ... that i8089 has to be a slave processor to something else. It is. It has a 8086 for the main CPU. A 8088 to handle the keyboard, CRT and RS-232 communications and a 8059 for something else. > >The notion of CP/M for something other than the "BIG-3" i.e. 8080/8085/Z-80, >seems unnatural to me. I you can find an OS that actually uses that i8089, >I'll be surprised, but really interested. I have one. It's CPM-86 and it's up and running. I've got one on an Intel iSBC215 >"Versatile Hard Disk Controller" intended for goodness knows what, which I >mistakenly bought back in the early '80's, thinking it would do something >"wonderful" and worthy of study since it was so expensive. -Not so! - > >The 11-bit bit banks in those memories are halves of 22-bit words which are >SECDED compatible for 16-bit words of data. Intel made a chipset to >accomplish just that and it's probably the set on your board(s). The ECC memory controller is a 8206. It also has a 8203 DRAM controller. This thing is full of Intel chips, it has a 8288 bus controller, a 8259 arbitration control chip and a 8284 clock generator just to name a few. Joe From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Dec 30 19:54:56 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: Transcopy 3 Central Point Software card? References: <000001bf5298$995bcc60$59a40b18@c224946-a.home.com> Message-ID: <003801bf5332$0ab0eaa0$f3701fd1@jrkeysppt> Yes, I purchased one new years ago and you need the software that came with the card. Mine's still in my Compaq 286 back in Texas and so is the diskette that goes with it. This summer when I go down there I will see if I can find the manual and software for it. John ----- Original Message ----- From: Ernest To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 1:36 AM Subject: Transcopy 3 Central Point Software card? > I have a small ISA card produced by Central Point Software (1987) with a > chip on it that reads "Transcopy 3." I'm assuming that this is one of those > cards that you could use to copy protected software disks. Is that right? > > My question is; how do you use it? It has a floppy type cable coming off of > one end, and an empty connector next to it for, I assume, a second floppy > cable. Has anyone used one of these before? Do I need special software for > it? > > Thanks for your help. > > Ernest > leucoplast@seanet.com > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Thu Dec 30 20:09:10 1999 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? References: <001c01bf530c$a4d37e20$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: <010501bf5334$073e6e40$f3701fd1@jrkeysppt> Can you give a model name or number I show several 540 hd in my book ? ----- Original Message ----- From: Richard Erlacher To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 3:27 PM Subject: OT: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? > I've seen occasional mention of the quantum 540 HDD on the list. Has > anybody got the cylinder and head count available? > > thanx > > Dick > > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 30 20:36:28 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:30 2005 Subject: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? Message-ID: <000601bf5337$d7e6d840$0400c0a8@winbook> No offense, Allison, but the 1007 and 1005 controllers won't work with that drive at all, as both 1005 and 1007 are ESDI controllers. You may be thinking of the 1006's which come in both MFM and RLL. The 1006 WITH an EPROM on it is the RLL version, while the MFM version uses the motherboard-resident BIOS to handle the HDD. ESDI is a high-level interface not at all like the "ultra-dumb" ST-506/ST-412 interface this drive claims to have, though it does use cables of similar configuration, hence has similar connectors. This drive is commonly used with MFM, though its speed control, etc, is capable of RLL densities as are most "MFM" drives. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 5:11 PM Subject: RE: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? > >< Model Interface Capacity Cylinders Heads Sectors >< Q540 MFM 36MB 512 8 17 > >Actually 42mb unformatted and despeding on controller 31-36mb formatted. >They work real well with WD1005 or 1007 controllers (RLL) for around >42-44mb. > >Allison > From edick at idcomm.com Thu Dec 30 20:42:14 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? Message-ID: <001b01bf5338$a6054360$0400c0a8@winbook> Yup! That was a bad spec! I see where there are several Quantum drives with the 540 as part of their model number. This is the old Q540 form back in the '80's, though. It looks like it's going to be rubbish, though, except for the socketed MPU's which will go in the parts bins, since, (whine) it doesn't seem to work. Dick -----Original Message----- From: John R. Keys Jr. To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, December 30, 1999 7:09 PM Subject: Re: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? >Can you give a model name or number I show several 540 hd in my book ? >----- Original Message ----- >From: Richard Erlacher >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Sent: Thursday, December 30, 1999 3:27 PM >Subject: OT: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? > > >> I've seen occasional mention of the quantum 540 HDD on the list. Has >> anybody got the cylinder and head count available? >> >> thanx >> >> Dick >> >> > From peter.pachla at wintermute.org.uk Thu Dec 30 20:55:25 1999 From: peter.pachla at wintermute.org.uk (Peter Pachla) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, References: Message-ID: <019901bf5342$9417d500$1ce893c3@proteus> Hi Tony, > Have I just stepped into a timewarp? I seem to remember posting >that a few months back ;-) Ah, that's my fault....I had a backlog of nearly 3000 messages from the past few months which I ate my way through today. I've not been keeping up with this list due to various outside problems (5 family members hospitalised for several weeks, one after the other). :-( > My knowledge of Apricots doesn't go much beyond the original PC. >That was a strange machine -- one of the few MS-DOS boxes to use >an 8089 I/O coprocessor.... Yes, it's the only machine I've come across so far which utilises the 8089. It's a neat design, before I got into DEC gear about 10 - 11 years ago I was a bit of an Apricot nut. That said I've never been interested in the PC clones they made, of which there were many. > BTW, what's the connection between Apricot and the Sirius?.... Ah, as I recall Apricot were originally called "ACT" and distributed the Sirius in this country. When they decided to produce their own PC a couple of years later they based their design on the Sirius (and renamed themselves "Apricot") which they had a lot of experience with. I always thought it was a real shame that they omitted the CODEC and keyboard control of monitor contrast/brightness and speaker volume. :-( The "microscreen" while a nice touch never quite made up for that IMHO. TTFN - Pete. -- Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer. Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC) peter.pachla@wintermute.org.uk | peter.pachla@wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk -- From nerdware at laidbak.com Thu Dec 30 22:20:23 1999 From: nerdware at laidbak.com (Paul Braun) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: Reply to the "Big Iron" collectors -- Thanks! Message-ID: <199912310420.WAA08643@garcon.laidbak.com> OK, I have been thoroughly chastised for my choice of "big iron" to describe the minis. I know better, and this is proof that one shouldn't post stuff real late at night. I appreciate all the discussion. By no means did I mean to imply that old equals obsolete -- I still use a 20-something HP-35 calculator that does the basic 4 fns plus scientific stuff just as well as today's little marvels, plus it has the added advantages of being built like a tank and using RPN. I've used RPN since I was in high school in the mid-70's and learned early on that it is great for preventing people from borrowing your calculator. All they have to do is ask "where's the 'equals' key?" and when you reply "there isn't one", they stare at you funny and go away. I'm surprised that most of you do use them for day-to-day tasks. I guess in my mind I just envisioned most minis in business settings running business apps -- my exposure to the larger side of computing has been somewhat limited. The most actual usage I got was programming FORTRAN IV on a DECWriter connected to the HP3000 at school. I guess it boils down to "if you know how to run it, and it does what you need, then it's the right machine for the job" I shouldn't be that surprised, I guess, because that's usually the advice I give people who ask me about dumping a boatload of cash because the folks at Intel have promised them that the latest whiz- bang tricked-out PIII box will dance and sing, do the dishes, and make their 28.8 dialup connection into a screaming multimedia wonderland. I usually ask, "does your current pc do what you need it to?" to which the reply is almost always, "Yes." Then I tell them to save their money and get something better when the current box dies. Or I tell them to get a Mac. But that's a different thread for a different group. I would like to have a PDP at some point and learn how to use it, but the pc collection is currently pushing the limits of marital tolerance, and then I and my computers would have to find a new place to sleep........... We now return you to the list, already in progress. Paul Braun NerdWare -- The History of the PC and the Nerds who brought it to you. nerdware@laidbak.com www.laidbak.com/nerdware From jpl15 at netcom.com Fri Dec 31 00:55:12 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: 11/44: CSRs and Vectors Message-ID: I am at the plateau of learning how to configure modules for inclusion into a Unibus PDP11/44 system... and I'm having trouble getting off the dime understanding the algoithms involved. I think I've a pretty good handle on how the grant chain works, and of course I think I understand the concept of hardware addressing and interrupt hierarchies and servicing. I just am having trouble applying my limited knowledge to specific DEC hardware. Por ejemplo: I dredged the M8256/RX211 out of my 11/34, with the object of hanging an RX02 on the 11/44. I have a DD11-CK (four slot) backplane with one slot (4) available. I pulled the grant card, cut the NPR jumper, and installed the M8256 in the slot. I checked everything out electromechanically, all seems good: cables in the right way up, RX02 on and running, all ok. On boot, the system came up normally until I typed $dir DY0: and there was a mighty explosion, bits bytes and words rained down on me and I blew the machine back into ODT. Thence, it refused to boot again, returning me to the >>> every time, even after I powered it down and back up again. [ >>> b db0 ] I then removed the M8256, restored the jumper and grant card, and all is now well. (....Whhheeewwww...!!!!) I had visions of irreparable damage and weeks of work and severe depression... So I assume that the various settings on the RX211 conflict with the rest of the system. Having the documentation [PDP-11/44 System User's Guide and the RX02 Floppy Disk System User's Guide] what process must I accomplish to properly configure the Module so it 'plays well with others'? A Very Happy New Year to those whose Year is imanently New; and to everyone else anyway, on the grounds that we all like good wishes. Cheers John From mac at Wireless.Com Fri Dec 31 01:37:25 1999 From: mac at Wireless.Com (Mike Cheponis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> >> But, I assure you that 15 years from now I'll still have some way to run all >> of my RT-11 MACRO-11 code unchanged. Just like it's already possible to run > >Yeah, but in 15 years time, just try finding a _new_ Macro-11 assembler. >Oh, sure you've preserved the one that came with RT11 or whatever, and >it'll still work. But the same could be said of any language. > >-tony Tony, I'm not sure I understand this. If the Macro-11 works just fine, why would a new one be needed? I suppose a new one could be faster, give more information, could have a nicer interface, use less core, etc; maybe that's what you mean? -Mike From xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com Fri Dec 31 01:52:03 1999 From: xds_sigma7 at hotmail.com (Will Jennings) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: AS400-C10 Message-ID: <19991231075204.33280.qmail@hotmail.com> Hi, Well I can at least confirm that the disk drives are SCSI, since I've been looking at an AS/400 that I know contains only SCSI disks. That model of AS/400 is old enough that it does not use the PowerPC chip, I know it uses some other kind of RISC chip but can't tell you what. Will J ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From wanderer at bos.nl Fri Dec 31 09:38:52 1999 From: wanderer at bos.nl (wanderer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: A New Millennium Message-ID: <386CCE0C.3DA6@bos.nl> In the last Second of the last Minute of the last Hour of the last Day of the last Week of the last Month of the last Year of the last Century of the 2nd Millennium, I do wish everybody a Happy 2000! Ed -- The Wanderer | Geloof nooit een politicus! wanderer@bos.nl | Europarlementariers: zakken- http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer | vullers en dumpplaats voor Unix Lives! windows95/98 is rommel! | mislukte politici. '96 GSXR 1100R / '97 TL1000S | See http://www.bos.nl/homes/wanderer/gates.html for a funny pic. of Gates! From Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de Fri Dec 31 09:44:34 1999 From: Hans.Franke at mch20.sbs.de (Hans Franke) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: 8089 was Re: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19991230193153.09ef7878@mailhost.intellistar.net> References: Message-ID: <199912311445.PAA04769@mail2.siemens.de> > >a strange machine -- one of the few MS-DOS boxes to use an 8089 I/O > >coprocessor (which I why I got interested in it -- nice chip). > Hi Tony, I have an 8089 in a CPM machine but I haven't been able to find > out much about that chip. What can you tell me about it? The 8089 is the supposed I/O Processor for 8086/88 systems. Like the 8087 it can be used in an 8 or 16 bit bus system. Basicly Intel did go for a structure like a /370 alike mainframe. A CPU (8086 or 8088), an IOC (8089) and a math extension to the CPU (FPU, 8087). Due the nature of the 86 Bus the 8087 did become a bit more independant than a /370 math extension. Basicly the 8086 is designed as ordinary CPU, while the 8089 is optimized for I/O - you may call it a super DMA chip, but thats like calling a versitale VW Bus a shoping cart. From a system softwares view point you may assign the low level I/O drivers to be run on the 8089, while the 8086 executes the high level functions. For a a Disk drive this may give you an SCSI like interface between these components - the 8086 supports a control block with (logical) drive ID, and block number, while the 8089 translates this to controller address, drive number and head/track/sector number to programm the FD chips and then initiate the DMA transfer. For a serial line, this may include low level block drivers for packing/unpacking and CRC and block repeat to handle the complete transmission of a given data (chunk). Especialy in a multi tasking environment this gives an enormus boost in available processing power. Not to mention the simplified OS design. As a standard IOC, the 89 also overcomes the driver problems that you get if every I/O has his own, different 'intelligent' controller. Well, I guess there may have been some applications, but I doubt if this has ever used the full potential of the 86/89 combination. The design did realy borrow a lot of good mainframe ideas. Just to early ? Gruss H. -- Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. H.Achternbusch From peter.pachla at wintermute.org.uk Fri Dec 31 09:41:46 1999 From: peter.pachla at wintermute.org.uk (Peter Pachla) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: AS400-C10 References: Message-ID: <002f01bf53a6$028f8560$6be793c3@proteus> Hi Paul, > The above item fell into my possession today. It appears to be >circa 1990, contains three hard disks (or DASD, if you prefer), >a 150mb QIC tape drive, and a twinax interface card. Nice, sounds a lot like my AS/400. In fact, looking through the AS/400 handbook it would appear that what you have is an AS/400 9404 Model C10. I THINK this is what I have, mine is a 9404 but I'm not sure if it's a C10, C20 or C30. I've got the expansion cabinet with mine, which I think makes it a C20 or 30? > The IBM web site indicates this machine supports a whopping 20MB of >RAM and 2GB of hard drive space.... If you haven't already got it I recommend downloading the AS/400 handbook from the IBM website. It's a 5.15Mb ".pdf" file, but well worth the download time! >....It still has an OS on the disks if I can remember which drive went >in which bay in the machine (or if the id is in the drive rather than >the backplane) I don't know how drive IDs are assigned, I'm still trying to get mine to power up.... :-( BTW You do have the system security number don't you? Without this you'll have to reinstall the OS every 30 days or so, from what I've been told. > From a quick once over the disk/DASD appear to be SCSI, as does the >QIC tape. Can anyone confirm? Correct. If you do manage to get yours working drop me a note, I've been wrestling with mine for some 4 months and gotten exactly nowhere so far. TTFN - Pete. -- Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer. Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC) peter.pachla@wintermute.org.uk | peter.pachla@wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk -- From edick at idcomm.com Fri Dec 31 09:49:09 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: 8089 was Re: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, Message-ID: <001101bf53a6$946b4dc0$0400c0a8@winbook> Quite true, Hans. The Intel effort to push the industry ahead fell with this chipset fell flat because software vendors were not willing to re-architect their existing constructs in order to capitalize on the advantages a hierarchical structure for the I/O subsystem would provide. Software simply never evolved to the point at which it fully exploited the hardware. The degeneration of the initial architecture into what it now is rather than the more highly abstracted (and more highly evolved) construct that was presented by the hardware was caused by software vendors' inability to organize themselves around a unified construct. Dick -----Original Message----- From: Hans Franke To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 7:48 AM Subject: Re: 8089 was Re: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, >> >a strange machine -- one of the few MS-DOS boxes to use an 8089 I/O >> >coprocessor (which I why I got interested in it -- nice chip). > >> Hi Tony, I have an 8089 in a CPM machine but I haven't been able to find >> out much about that chip. What can you tell me about it? > >The 8089 is the supposed I/O Processor for 8086/88 systems. >Like the 8087 it can be used in an 8 or 16 bit bus system. > >Basicly Intel did go for a structure like a /370 alike mainframe. >A CPU (8086 or 8088), an IOC (8089) and a math extension to the >CPU (FPU, 8087). Due the nature of the 86 Bus the 8087 did become >a bit more independant than a /370 math extension. Basicly the >8086 is designed as ordinary CPU, while the 8089 is optimized for >I/O - you may call it a super DMA chip, but thats like calling >a versitale VW Bus a shoping cart. From a system softwares view >point you may assign the low level I/O drivers to be run on the >8089, while the 8086 executes the high level functions. For a >a Disk drive this may give you an SCSI like interface between >these components - the 8086 supports a control block with (logical) >drive ID, and block number, while the 8089 translates this to >controller address, drive number and head/track/sector number >to programm the FD chips and then initiate the DMA transfer. > >For a serial line, this may include low level block drivers >for packing/unpacking and CRC and block repeat to handle the >complete transmission of a given data (chunk). > >Especialy in a multi tasking environment this gives an enormus >boost in available processing power. Not to mention the simplified >OS design. As a standard IOC, the 89 also overcomes the driver >problems that you get if every I/O has his own, different >'intelligent' controller. > >Well, I guess there may have been some applications, but I doubt >if this has ever used the full potential of the 86/89 combination. >The design did realy borrow a lot of good mainframe ideas. Just to >early ? > >Gruss >H. > > >-- >Der Kopf ist auch nur ein Auswuchs wie der kleine Zeh. >H.Achternbusch From thompson at mail.athenet.net Fri Dec 31 10:16:29 1999 From: thompson at mail.athenet.net (Paul Thompson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: AS400-C10 In-Reply-To: <002f01bf53a6$028f8560$6be793c3@proteus> Message-ID: See embedded comments On Fri, 31 Dec 1999, Peter Pachla wrote: > Hi Paul, > > > The above item fell into my possession today. It appears to be > >circa 1990, contains three hard disks (or DASD, if you prefer), > >a 150mb QIC tape drive, and a twinax interface card. > > Nice, sounds a lot like my AS/400. > > In fact, looking through the AS/400 handbook it would appear that what you > have is an AS/400 9404 Model C10. I THINK this is what I have, mine is a > 9404 but I'm not sure if it's a C10, C20 or C30. > > I've got the expansion cabinet with mine, which I think makes it a C20 or > 30? By the look of the IBM docs, the >C10 models appear to support more than one bus, so it could very well be. > > > The IBM web site indicates this machine supports a whopping 20MB of > >RAM and 2GB of hard drive space.... > > If you haven't already got it I recommend downloading the AS/400 handbook > from the IBM website. It's a 5.15Mb ".pdf" file, but well worth the download > time! > > >....It still has an OS on the disks if I can remember which drive went > >in which bay in the machine (or if the id is in the drive rather than > >the backplane) > > I don't know how drive IDs are assigned, I'm still trying to get mine to > power up.... :-( > > BTW You do have the system security number don't you? Without this you'll > have to reinstall the OS every 30 days or so, from what I've been told. Someone was kind enough to handwrite a 16 hexadecimal digit number labeled "Sys Pw" on the inside of the case. Does that sound the right format for a system security number? It is not the serial number which like on a RS/6000 appears on the front panel in a xx-xxxxx format. Mine also does not want to boot, but I believe that is because I don't have a console hooked up yet. I have a twinax terminal for this purpose, which from my browsing of the AS400 documentation leads me to believe has to be set to "device 0/0". I did bring a twinax mux like thing that the original console was plugged into, although I did not have room for the original console terminal in my car. I had to disassemble the whole machine to get the pedestal unit light enough to lift into my trunk/back seat. I took apart what appeared to be the CPU board last night, having to break the spiffy little AS/400 holograms over some of the screws. The board was replete with many custom IBM chips none of which I recognized. I reassembled the CPU board and it refused to boot with exactly the same SRC codes as it did before, so I assume I did not zap anything. I did not see anything that resembled RAM anywhere but on the main CPU board, so I assume mine has the default 8 meg of memory. I worked at a city hall as an intern in college in the early 90's and wrote various RPG queries on the AS400. I probably have not touched an AS400 since. I developed quite a bad reputation back then among the city hall IT staff for getting into city databases where I was not allowed. Getting the commerical building contact names from the fire department database updated monthly by the firemen sure beat going door to door as I was told to do, especially during that crappy, rainy summer. Their security mechanisms seemed to rely on the lack of computer literacy of the city employees. As a result I unfairly came to associate AS/400's with lazy sysadmins who resented getting interrupted during their coffee breaks, which seemed inordinately frequent. Thanks, and keep me posted if you have any progress. Paul > > > > From a quick once over the disk/DASD appear to be SCSI, as does the > >QIC tape. Can anyone confirm? > > Correct. > > > If you do manage to get yours working drop me a note, I've been wrestling > with mine for some 4 months and gotten exactly nowhere so far. > > > TTFN - Pete. > > -- > Hardware & Software Engineer. Sound Engineer. > Collector of Arcade Machines, Games Consoles & Obsolete Computers (esp DEC) > > peter.pachla@wintermute.org.uk | > peter.pachla@wintermute.free-online.co.uk | www.wintermute.free-online.co.uk > -- > > From spicer at computerhistory.org Fri Dec 31 10:21:05 1999 From: spicer at computerhistory.org (Dag Spicer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: Computer History Lecture: January 13, 2000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19991231082105.00f36c20@mail.netcare.com> The Computer Museum History Center is delighted to present: "Recollections of Early Paint Systems" Richard Shoup & Alvy Ray Smith January 13, 2000 18:00 hrs Building 3 (Moffett Training and Conference Center) NASA Ames Research Center Mountain View, CA 94035 In the early 1970s, with the advent of 1 Kbit integrated circuit memories, it became practical for the first time to build a semiconductor memory capable of holding an entire image and displaying it on a video monitor -- a picture memory or "frame buffer." This led to developments in interactive frame buffers, painting and drawing programs and other graphics-oriented software at Xerox PARC, the University of Utah, MIT, the NYIT, and elsewhere, and ultimately to the entire field of pixel-based graphics. Dick Shoup built the first video-compatible frame buffer and painting system, "SuperPaint," at Xerox PARC in 1973. His colleague and friend Alvy Ray Smith collaborated on SuperPaint, and then went on to develop the first full-color paint program and much more at New York Tech in the late 1970s. In this talk, Dick and Alvy will describe and demonstrate -- hardware gods willing --the original 1973 SuperPaint graphics system, and a Windows-based PC emulation of the NYIT full-color Paint3 program, exhibit historical footage of early graphics programs and achievements, and tell some stories of their early adventures in pixel graphics. Following the lecture, tours of The Computer Museum History Center's Exhibit Area will be conducted by Center staff. Refreshments will be served and admission is free. Attending: Please RSVP by January 12 to Wendy-Ann Francis. (francis@computerhistory.org) Due to government regulations, all lecture attendees must register to be admitted to NASA Ames Research Center. If you are a U.S. citizen or Green Card holder, please provide your full name and affiliation. If you are not a US citizen and do not have a Green Card, please provide your full name, affiliation, citizenship, VISA type and expiration date, passport number and expiration date, date of birth, and country of birth. We look forward to seeing you on the 13th! This announcement, along with, reference materials, links, photographs and directions to the event, appears on our website at: http://www.computerhistory.org/events/superpaint_01132000/ D.S. -- Dag Spicer Curator & Manager of Historical Collections Editorial Board, IEEE Annals of the History of Computing The Computer Museum History Center Building T12-A NASA Ames Research Center Mountain View, CA 94035 Offices: Building T12-A Exhibit Area: Building 126 Tel: +1 650 604 2578 Fax: +1 650 604 2594 E-m: spicer@computerhistory.org WWW: http://www.computerhistory.org PGP: 15E31235 (E6ECDF74 349D1667 260759AD 7D04C178) S/V T12 Read about the latest History Center developments in "CORE," our quarterly on-line newsletter: http://www.computerhistory.org/events/core/1.1/ From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Dec 31 11:03:36 1999 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? Message-ID: <199912311703.MAA17103@world.std.com> GAWD! That's really a confusing mess! I always thought WD got its board-level products badly mixed up number-wise, but this is beyond what I'd feared. I have two flavors of 1007, which are definitely ESDI, only one 1006, though it's the MFM version, no EPROM, but I did at one time have a 1005 which was definitely for ESDI and a 1006 which had the RLL chips (5xxx-series) and turned the MFM drive into an RLL easily enough. ...and I thought the bridge controller boards were badly numbered! Dick -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 10:07 AM Subject: Re: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? > >I could be off on the 1007 though I have NO edsi drives and am using 1005 >and WD1007 (least that what the markings are) and both are PC using D540s. >Also my 1006 was used with them in the current system before I went IDE. >Note we may be talking across part numbers as I have three 1005s that >are each decidedly different from each other yet, the primary part of the >part number is WD1005! I also have 4 flavors of 1002, three differnt >lengths, one surface mount! Of all the PC controllers from WDC I have >about ten, starting with the 1002 also the 1003, 1005, 1006 and 1007. >The only EDSI controller I have is a non WD design and I don't ahve drives >for that. > > >Ah, I do know the difference. > > >I've found it to be more successful than others though RD53s (micropolus >1325s 71mb) were really nice at 100mb RLL and pretty reliable till they got >old. > >Allison > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 31 12:51:54 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, In-Reply-To: <019901bf5342$9417d500$1ce893c3@proteus> from "Peter Pachla" at Dec 31, 99 02:55:25 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2391 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991231/1a518d19/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 31 12:57:13 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: Reply to the "Big Iron" collectors -- Thanks! In-Reply-To: <199912310420.WAA08643@garcon.laidbak.com> from "Paul Braun" at Dec 30, 99 10:20:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1618 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991231/5b26b2a0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 31 13:01:26 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: 11/44: CSRs and Vectors In-Reply-To: from "John Lawson" at Dec 30, 99 10:55:12 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2332 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991231/ef3917d0/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 31 13:04:17 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: Question for you 'big iron' collectors In-Reply-To: from "Mike Cheponis" at Dec 30, 99 11:37:25 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1119 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991231/45ffe187/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Dec 31 13:10:19 1999 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: 8089 was Re: Hyperion Passport, Apricot, Convergent Technologies workSlate, In-Reply-To: <001101bf53a6$946b4dc0$0400c0a8@winbook> from "Richard Erlacher" at Dec 31, 99 08:49:09 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1213 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19991231/3410d99b/attachment.ksh From ethan_dicks at yahoo.com Fri Dec 31 14:22:06 1999 From: ethan_dicks at yahoo.com (Ethan Dicks) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: New aquisition: big iron goodies Message-ID: <19991231202206.904.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> A buddy of mine came through today with some stuff he'd been talking about for months. In exchange for a place-mat-sized fan-folded UNIX "pocket guide" from 1984, he gave me a 360 reference card (IBM p/n X20-1703-4) and another artifact that I'd only ever _heard_ of before - a data cell (i.e., a noodle from an IBM noodle picker/stuffer). It's much larger than I anticipated - over 2" x 12". Between the reference card and the textbook I have (Saxon, Englander and Englander, "System 360 Programming, A Self-Instructional Manual", Prentice- Hall, Inc, 1968) I'm almost ready to try out that 360 emulator. -ethan ===== Infinet has been sold. The domain is going away in February. Please send all replies to erd@iname.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com From jpl15 at netcom.com Fri Dec 31 15:18:42 1999 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: New aquisition: big iron goodies In-Reply-To: <19991231202206.904.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Dec 1999, Ethan Dicks wrote: > > A buddy of mine came through today with some stuff he'd been talking about [snip] > > Between the reference card and the textbook I have (Saxon, Englander and > Englander, "System 360 Programming, A Self-Instructional Manual", Prentice- > Hall, Inc, 1968) I'm almost ready to try out that 360 emulator. > Ship me your your addr privately and I'll send you this copy of "IBM 360 Programming and Computing" Golden and Leichus (1967) Its 340 pages with some cool appendices with all the instruction sets, condition codes, etc. I'm starting to think that my expectations of My Very Own 360 system might not materialize :} so if you want it, 'tis yours. Cheers John From mcquiggi at sfu.ca Fri Dec 31 15:29:58 1999 From: mcquiggi at sfu.ca (Kevin McQuiggin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: New aquisition: big iron goodies In-Reply-To: <19991231202206.904.qmail@web605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19991231132958.0077d6d8@mail.sfu.ca> At 12:22 PM 12/31/99 -0800, you wrote: >Between the reference card and the textbook I have (Saxon, Englander and >Englander, "System 360 Programming, A Self-Instructional Manual", Prentice- >Hall, Inc, 1968) I'm almost ready to try out that 360 emulator. Hey, I have that book too! I got it in about 1975. It served as my guide as a wrote my own FORTRAN compiler. A very clear book, although the hand-drawn tables made it look a little unprofessional. Kevin ========================================================== Sgt. Kevin McQuiggin, Vancouver Police Department E-Comm Project (604) 215-5095; Cell: (604) 868-0544 Email: mcquiggi@sfu.ca From healyzh at aracnet.com Fri Dec 31 15:42:19 1999 From: healyzh at aracnet.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: AS400-C10 In-Reply-To: <002f01bf53a6$028f8560$6be793c3@proteus> References: Message-ID: >If you haven't already got it I recommend downloading the AS/400 handbook >from the IBM website. It's a 5.15Mb ".pdf" file, but well worth the download >time! Anyone got a URL for this? I don't have clue where to look for AS/400 info and I'd be interested in checking it out. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@aracnet.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | and Zane's Computer Museum. | | http://www.aracnet.com/~healyzh/ | From donm at cts.com Fri Dec 31 16:30:32 1999 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? In-Reply-To: <000601bf53bf$f3ab1e00$0400c0a8@winbook> Message-ID: On Fri, 31 Dec 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > GAWD! That's really a confusing mess! I always thought WD got its > board-level products badly mixed up number-wise, but this is beyond what I'd > feared. > > I have two flavors of 1007, which are definitely ESDI, only one 1006, though > it's the MFM version, no EPROM, but I did at one time have a 1005 which was > definitely for ESDI and a 1006 which had the RLL chips (5xxx-series) and > turned the MFM drive into an RLL easily enough. Reviewing the listing from TheRef, I find that the HDCs divide like this: 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, and 1006 are all ST412 interface 1005, 1007, and 1009 are all ESDI interface. Within the ST412 grouping are both MFM and RLL controllers. There is only one version of the 1005, but multiple versions of the 1007 and 1009. Note that I delimited the above to HDCs to avoid addressing the 1002-FOX FDC! - don > ...and I thought the bridge controller boards were badly numbered! > > Dick > > -----Original Message----- > From: Allison J Parent > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 10:07 AM > Subject: Re: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? > > > > > > > > > > >I could be off on the 1007 though I have NO edsi drives and am using 1005 > >and WD1007 (least that what the markings are) and both are PC using D540s. > >Also my 1006 was used with them in the current system before I went IDE. > >Note we may be talking across part numbers as I have three 1005s that > >are each decidedly different from each other yet, the primary part of the > >part number is WD1005! I also have 4 flavors of 1002, three differnt > >lengths, one surface mount! Of all the PC controllers from WDC I have > >about ten, starting with the 1002 also the 1003, 1005, 1006 and 1007. > >The only EDSI controller I have is a non WD design and I don't ahve drives > >for that. > > > > > cable > > > > >Ah, I do know the difference. > > > > > > > >I've found it to be more successful than others though RD53s (micropolus > >1325s 71mb) were really nice at 100mb RLL and pretty reliable till they got > >old. > > > >Allison > > > > From edick at idcomm.com Fri Dec 31 18:11:30 1999 From: edick at idcomm.com (Richard Erlacher) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? Message-ID: <000d01bf53ec$c19332e0$0400c0a8@winbook> Yes, Don, that's what I've thought up to now as it agrees with my literature, but if Allison says she has a 1005 that works with an ST506 drive, ... well ... she's got what she's got. I have one setup with a 1007V-SE and another with a 1007-WA2. The former is a bit fancier but mainly there's a performance difference directly attributable to the on-board hardware. Happy New Year! Dick -----Original Message----- From: Don Maslin To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 3:33 PM Subject: Re: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? > > >On Fri, 31 Dec 1999, Richard Erlacher wrote: > >> GAWD! That's really a confusing mess! I always thought WD got its >> board-level products badly mixed up number-wise, but this is beyond what I'd >> feared. >> >> I have two flavors of 1007, which are definitely ESDI, only one 1006, though >> it's the MFM version, no EPROM, but I did at one time have a 1005 which was >> definitely for ESDI and a 1006 which had the RLL chips (5xxx-series) and >> turned the MFM drive into an RLL easily enough. > >Reviewing the listing from TheRef, I find that the HDCs divide like >this: 1001, 1002, 1003, 1004, and 1006 are all ST412 interface > 1005, 1007, and 1009 are all ESDI interface. > >Within the ST412 grouping are both MFM and RLL controllers. There is >only one version of the 1005, but multiple versions of the 1007 and >1009. > >Note that I delimited the above to HDCs to avoid addressing the 1002-FOX >FDC! > > - don > >> ...and I thought the bridge controller boards were badly numbered! >> >> Dick >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Allison J Parent >> To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers >> >> Date: Friday, December 31, 1999 10:07 AM >> Subject: Re: how many heads, Cylinders on a Quantum 540? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >I could be off on the 1007 though I have NO edsi drives and am using 1005 >> >and WD1007 (least that what the markings are) and both are PC using D540s. >> >Also my 1006 was used with them in the current system before I went IDE. >> >Note we may be talking across part numbers as I have three 1005s that >> >are each decidedly different from each other yet, the primary part of the >> >part number is WD1005! I also have 4 flavors of 1002, three differnt >> >lengths, one surface mount! Of all the PC controllers from WDC I have >> >about ten, starting with the 1002 also the 1003, 1005, 1006 and 1007. >> >The only EDSI controller I have is a non WD design and I don't ahve drives >> >for that. >> > >> >> >> cable >> >> > >> >Ah, I do know the difference. >> > >> >> >> > >> >I've found it to be more successful than others though RD53s (micropolus >> >1325s 71mb) were really nice at 100mb RLL and pretty reliable till they got >> >old. >> > >> >Allison >> > >> >> > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Dec 31 22:22:52 1999 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:48:31 2005 Subject: Emulex TC12 docs? Message-ID: <13511998190.10.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Need switch settings for it. Mine's acting funny and I think the switches got played with (The SCSI controller works fine, and the TC doesn't, swapping slots doesn't help, only other things in the backplane are two DZ11s.) It's a Emulex TC12 UNIBUS tape controller, with a 1600/3200 BPI Pertec 9-track drive on it. Drive is known good. I/O with the drive loses about half the time. (It just hangs RT-11 forever.) -------