From marvin at rain.org Sun Feb 1 00:42:51 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:38 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions References: <199802010230.AA09155@world.std.com> Message-ID: <34D4196B.C2ED06DC@rain.org> Allison J Parent wrote: > > > the 80/10a was a multibus 8080 card. I have a few but they are fried. > When I get crazy I'll fix them. The 80/10 desn't date from '76 though > the '76 is the date intel trademarked the MULTIBUS name. When I read your message, I took another look at the card, and the date was actually 1978 but the chips had code dates in 1977 and 1985 respectively. Any idea what that 80/10B card is? It has a label on the back indicating some type of Intel license was needed to use the software which I am guessing is in the four onboard ROMs. From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Feb 1 00:12:48 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:41 2005 Subject: C-64c probs Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980201011242.006a1d00@netpath.net> I was playing around with the C-64c I picked up last month... It came with a 1541 floppy... I think I have a problem: Turn on floppy turn on C-64c C-64c inits the drive (light blinks, then goes out) insert disk type LOAD "$",8 nothing happens, no drive light, no response from the 64. What's going on here? Drive misalign? How do I realign? Bad drive? Bad cable? Anyone have one or two extra 1541 floppy drives they want to sell? -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Sun Feb 1 04:51:37 1998 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:42 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions References: <199802010230.AA09155@world.std.com> <34D4196B.C2ED06DC@rain.org> Message-ID: <34D453B9.54D@digiweb.com> Marvin wrote: > > Allison J Parent wrote: > > > > > > > > > the 80/10a was a multibus 8080 card. I have a few but they are fried. > > When I get crazy I'll fix them. The 80/10 desn't date from '76 though > > the '76 is the date intel trademarked the MULTIBUS name. > > When I read your message, I took another look at the card, and the date was > actually 1978 but the chips had code dates in 1977 and 1985 respectively. > Any idea what that 80/10B card is? It has a label on the back indicating > some type of Intel license was needed to use the software which I am > guessing is in the four onboard ROMs. in my Intel MCS-80 User's manual dated Oct 1977, there is reference to "the popular SBC 80/10 Single Board Computer, a complete computer on a single printed circuit board". Sounds like you have an updated version of that. -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From Chwolka at nt-gmbh.de Sun Feb 1 08:31:47 1998 From: Chwolka at nt-gmbh.de (Fritz Chwolka) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:42 2005 Subject: C-64c probs References: <3.0.32.19980201011242.006a1d00@netpath.net> Message-ID: <34D48753.2E9A@nt-gmbh.de> John Higginbotham wrote: > > I was playing around with the C-64c I picked up last month... It came with > a 1541 floppy... > > I think I have a problem: > > Turn on floppy > turn on C-64c > C-64c inits the drive (light blinks, then goes out) > insert disk > type LOAD "$",8 > nothing happens, no drive light, no response from the 64. > > What's going on here? Drive misalign? How do I realign? Bad drive? Bad cable? > > Anyone have one or two extra 1541 floppy drives they want to sell? > > -John Higginbotham- > -limbo.netpath.net- -- I have my indos not by hand but I nelieve you must type type LOAD "$",8,1 ^^^^ Greetings Fritz Chwolka / collecting old computers just for fun. +-----------------------------------------------------+ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 1 08:43:25 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:42 2005 Subject: Core etc. (Was:Military Computer Books) In-Reply-To: <34D3C98D.F256D75C@interserv.com> References: <9801302238.AA05806@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980201084325.427fcdd4@intellistar.net> Will, We used these on EC-121s (predecessor to AWACS) when I was in the USAF. I don't ever remember one failing. I don't think we ever replaced one in the 3+ years that I worked on that stuff. Joe At 08:02 PM 1/31/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >Speaking of "core on a rope", etc, I've read no mention of "memory >drums", used on >some airborne systems. I remember reading some "horror stories" about >what happened >when these things suffered various forms of mechanical failure... > > >Will > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 1 08:47:41 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:42 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions In-Reply-To: <34D3CFCA.B2119328@rain.org> References: <19980131112627.21313.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980201084741.427f0b2a@intellistar.net> Marvin, I have an Intel developement system. Almost never use it. I should get rid of it. I ould be interested in any S-100 stuff that you find that will work in an Altair. Joe At 05:28 PM 1/31/98 -0800, you wrote: >Since rain was forecast for today, the seller turnout was less than normal >and pickings were a bit slim. However I did pick up a couple of interesting >things. For $1 each, I picked up an Ampex core memory board (and gave it to >a friend of mine, another collector), a Beckman S-100 microprocessor board, >an Intel Multibus Single Board Computer 80/10A, and an Intel Multibus 80/10B >card of some sort. The only reason I picked up the Intel Multibus boards >was because they are were dated 1976 and 1985 respectively (and they were >only $1 each!) I've picked up Multibus memory cards in the past for the >same reason. I haven't checked out my Intel Development System and they may >fit is a system like that. Anyone collect/save from scrap these things ... >besides me:). > >I did get a lead on a guy who sells S-100 cards down there, but didn't have >any this time. So, I'll make him a regular stop when I see him next time. >The last time I saw his S-100 cards, they were priced at $5 each which is >probably fine for the IMSAI I/O cards I saw, but perhaps high for the other >"no name", i.e. I didn't recognize the name, cards that looked like disk >controllers. > >I did see a DigiLogic unit that appeared to be some type of logic analysis >unit, an Atari 400, and the usual collection of early Mac and IBM stuff, but >I wasn't interested so I didn't check prices. > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 1 08:55:15 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:42 2005 Subject: eBay and online auctions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980201085515.2ddf3802@intellistar.net> At 07:47 PM 1/31/98 +0000, you wrote: >> > > >There's a chip in my HP Omnigo made by Vadem. It's a complete PC/XT apart >from the memory (but including the CPU, DMA, interrupt controller, serial >port, keyboard interface, parallel port, etc) together with an LCD >controller. Trying to emulate _that_ in an FPGA would be an interesting And hardly practical for repairing one machine, unless its worth a LOT of money! I've been considering duplicating the LED drivers for the old HP LED calculators and even that's complicated and it's only a DIP IC. Joe >task, even with the data sheet (which I have, all 230 pages of it). > >> William Donzelli > >-tony > > From foxvideo at wincom.net Sun Feb 1 08:06:01 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:42 2005 Subject: Future Services & Events from the Vintage Technology Cooperative In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980201090601.006a5db0@mail.wincom.net> At 06:36 PM 1/31/98 -0800, you wrote: > >I just thought I'd give yous guys a sneak peek of some of the things I am >working on... > >The Vintage Computer Festival v2.0 - the continuation of the legacy! ;) >This year's show will be bigger and better than the first. More vendors, >a bigger exhibition, more great speakers and workshops, more more more! >Tentatively scheduled for late summer. Keep your eyes open for further >announcements. Snip Hi, Sam: I just finished a twenty eight minute video "Toys to Tools, Twenty Years of Home Computers" which is supposed to run on local cable. If you think it might have any value to the festival send me your mailing address and I will donate a copy. Regards Charlie Fox foxvideo@wincom.net > >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > From cgregory at lrbcg.com Sun Feb 1 09:02:41 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:42 2005 Subject: C-64c probs Message-ID: <012201bd2f22$9eed7e80$ac27a2ce@cliffgre> John, Assuming the drive's device number has not been changed from eight, then the correct command is LOAD "*", 8, 1 The drive should light up and start spinning. If it is misaligned, you probably will get a "file not found" error. If the device number has been changed to 9, 10, or 11, then you will get a "device not found" error. Try the other numbers in place of 8 until you find the correct one. If the cable is bad or not connected properly, you should get a "device not present" error. I'm not sure how to advise you, if nothing happens and no error messages pop up. Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com PS: I've got all kinds of 1541's if you really want/need one. -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 2:15 AM Subject: C-64c probs > > > >I was playing around with the C-64c I picked up last month... It came with >a 1541 floppy... > >I think I have a problem: > >Turn on floppy >turn on C-64c >C-64c inits the drive (light blinks, then goes out) >insert disk >type LOAD "$",8 >nothing happens, no drive light, no response from the 64. > >What's going on here? Drive misalign? How do I realign? Bad drive? Bad cable? > >Anyone have one or two extra 1541 floppy drives they want to sell? > > >-John Higginbotham- >-limbo.netpath.net- > From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Feb 1 09:30:27 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:42 2005 Subject: C-64c probs Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980201102506.006f472c@netpath.net> At 09:31 AM 2/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >I have my indos not by hand but I nelieve you must type > >type LOAD "$",8,1 Manual says ,8 but I also tried ,8,1 and nothing happened -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Feb 1 09:30:28 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:42 2005 Subject: C-64c probs Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980201103016.006f6908@netpath.net> At 10:02 AM 2/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >Assuming the drive's device number has not been changed from eight, then the >correct command is LOAD "*", 8, 1 What's the differenct between "$" and "*"? I've seen both used in this context. How does one change a device number? I'm not Commodore expert. The only other Commodore product I've had is a C-16, and that seems like ages ago. >changed to 9, 10, or 11, then you will get a "device not found" error. Try >the other numbers in place of 8 until you find the correct one. If the >cable is bad or not connected properly, you should get a "device not >present" error. I'll give it a try. How long should I wait for a device not present message? It's just sitting there looking for the floppy. I've got both the C-64 manual and the 1541 manual, but can't see anything that'll help me. >PS: I've got all kinds of 1541's if you really want/need one. I'd like to get a second drive if this one is good, or two drives if this one is bad, but I think the problem is just me sitting in front of it, and not the drive. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 1 10:20:16 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:42 2005 Subject: Future Services & Events from the Vintage Technology Cooperative Message-ID: <01bd2f2d$484272b0$1269420c@magnum> Just one thing to say: Thank you. -----Original Message----- From: Sam Ismail To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, January 31, 1998 8:41 PM Subject: Future Services & Events from the Vintage Technology Cooperative > >I just thought I'd give yous guys a sneak peek of some of the things I am >working on... [Major snip] >ALL THIS AND SO MUCH MORE! A VERITABLE NERD EXTRAVAGANZA TO SATISFY YOUR >VINTAGE COMPUTER HUNGER! > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Feb 1 10:35:57 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: C-64c probs Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980201113546.006a09d4@netpath.net> At 02:16 AM 2/1/98 +0930, you wrote: >"$" loads the file directory from the disk, and you use "list" to see >what files are on it. "*" loads the first program on the disk, and I >assume the ,1 is to either load an assembly program, or to automatically >run the file once loaded. The ,8 is the device number - thus try, say, >,9. :) > >At least this is as far as my memory goes. I'll try it next time I get the system out to play with it. We've got an 19 month old running around now, and something like the Commodore with it's multiple cables and pieces is a prime target for her. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From cgregory at lrbcg.com Sun Feb 1 11:06:14 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: C-64c probs Message-ID: <01e801bd2f33$c74ea6e0$ac27a2ce@cliffgre> Load "*",8,1 loads the first program found on the disk; I'm not sure what load "$" does, if anything. To change the device number in a 1541 is not difficult, but it is a PITA because you must open the drive and cut through one or more connections. It is also semi-permanent in that you need to solder the connection back to reverse the procedure. There is a way to configure device numbers on a two drive system by way of a command, but that method escapes me at the moment. You should get the error messages immediately. I pulled out a Commodore and drive to try to recreate your problem, but could not (always got an error message of one kind or another). The only thing I could suggest is that one of the two serial ports on the drive is flakey. Either should work equally as well, but try the other one just in case. Then maybe there is something wrong with the C64 itself or its serial port. I'm just throwing out guesses now. Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com -----Original Message----- From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu To: Cgregory Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 11:38 AM Subject: Re: C-64c probs >>Assuming the drive's device number has not been changed from eight, then the >>correct command is LOAD "*", 8, 1 > >What's the differenct between "$" and "*"? I've seen both used in this >context. How does one change a device number? I'm not Commodore expert. The >only other Commodore product I've had is a C-16, and that seems like ages ago. > >>changed to 9, 10, or 11, then you will get a "device not found" error. Try >>the other numbers in place of 8 until you find the correct one. If the >>cable is bad or not connected properly, you should get a "device not >>present" error. > >I'll give it a try. How long should I wait for a device not present >message? It's just sitting there looking for the floppy. I've got both the >C-64 manual and the 1541 manual, but can't see anything that'll help me. > >>PS: I've got all kinds of 1541's if you really want/need one. > >I'd like to get a second drive if this one is good, or two drives if this >one is bad, but I think the problem is just me sitting in front of it, and >not the drive. > > >-John Higginbotham- >-limbo.netpath.net- > From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 1 11:25:01 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: Mac printer on PC (slightly off topic) Message-ID: <01bd2f36$53b45ab0$1269420c@magnum> Hi, Is there a way to hook up an old Mac printer to a PC? Any kind of adapter serial or parallel will do. It's an old PC and an old printer;) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980201/2f17c8ea/attachment.html From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 1 11:29:01 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: C-64c probs Message-ID: <01bd2f36$e2ae5fe0$1269420c@magnum> The best way to deal with that is to create a diversion: place an old keyboard on the floor and let the little one play with it. It works for a while;) >I'll try it next time I get the system out to play with it. We've got an 19 >month old running around now, and something like the Commodore with it's >multiple cables and pieces is a prime target for her. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon From marvin at rain.org Sun Feb 1 11:33:39 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF References: <19980131112627.21313.qmail@hotmail.com> <3.0.1.16.19980201084741.427f0b2a@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <34D4B1F3.8540D8F0@rain.org> Joe wrote: > I have an Intel developement system. Almost never use it. I should get > rid of it. I ould be interested in any S-100 stuff that you find that > will work in an Altair. > > Joe Hi Joe, I have several leads on people with S-100 boards so if you are looking for something specific, let me know. Can't promise anything except that I will check around. I would think that most, if not all, S-100 stuff would work in the Altair. It is possible that compatability with the actual MITS boards could be a problem though; Allison, Jim or a few others could probably say more about board compatibility. The Intel Development System I have hasn't even been fired up (my me!) yet as I acquired it only to add to the collection. Idea - Something that might be really interesting at the next VCF is to have a number of operating tools for people to see what was used and how it was used to develop hardware and software for the early microcomputer systems. From lfb107 at psu.edu Sun Feb 1 11:37:04 1998 From: lfb107 at psu.edu (Les Berry) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: C-64c probs Message-ID: <199802011739.MAA24930@r02n05.cac.psu.edu> At 02:16 AM 2/1/98 +0930, adam@merlin.net.au wrote: >>At 10:02 AM 2/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >> >>>Assuming the drive's device number has not been changed from eight, then the >>>correct command is LOAD "*", 8, 1 >> >>What's the differenct between "$" and "*"? I've seen both used in this >>context. How does one change a device number? I'm not Commodore expert. The >>only other Commodore product I've had is a C-16, and that seems like ages >>ago. > >"$" loads the file directory from the disk, and you use "list" to see >what files are on it. "*" loads the first program on the disk, and I >assume the ,1 is to either load an assembly program, or to automatically >run the file once loaded. The ,8 is the device number - thus try, say, >,9. :) LOAD"*",8,1 will load the last program loaded. If there was none, it will then load the first program on the disk. The ",1" is what is called the relocate flag. When it is notr there (or ",0") it tells the 64(or any commodore) to load the program at wherever the BASIC memory space starts. A ",1" tells it to load the program into whatever area of memory from which it was saved. (Usually used for machine language) This is why you get a screwed up screen if you use LOAD"$",8,1 to get a directory. To change a devce number on the 1541 (1571, 1581 too) use: OPEN 15,"dn",15 PRINT#15,"M-W"CHR$(119)CHR$(0)CHR$(2)CHR$("New Device Number" + 32)CHR$("New Device Number" +64) CLOSE 15 "dn" is the current device number of your drive (probably 8) and "New Device Number" is the number you want to change it to. (Anything from 9-127 or so I think) Les From aaron at orr.wfi-inc.com Sun Feb 1 11:42:57 1998 From: aaron at orr.wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: C-64c probs Message-ID: <199802011742.JAA12080@orr.wfi-inc.com> I have two little ones, 2 /12 years and 15 months, and I try to get them as involved with this stuff as possible. My older guy loves to help me clean and restore the systems, as well as play games and simple learning progs (I have to admit that he's not turning out to be normal, he's got quite a knack for the stuff already). I wrote a nice program for the younger guy for the Atari 8, it divides the keyboard into 4 sections and a different colour/sound part executes depending on which quadrant he touches. He's already learned to be gentle with the keybards, so nothing gets hurt and he's learning how to use a computer! My older son learned the same way, and I just gradually made more sections of the keyboard until now he can type any letter or number on the keyboard (we're working on the other characters). Why all this rambling? And what does it have to do with classic computers? Well, my dad had his hobbies that were "adult stuff" and I was excluded (collecting old rifles). Older computers are a fun hobby for me, but are also something that lets me invest time with my kids and teaches them skills that will give them an advantage in life. Older computers, especially the ones that are so plentiful and inexpensive right now (C64's, Ataris, etc) are perfect for teaching them this stuff. I admit that I would be a little nervous about leaving my new Dell laptop on the floor for them to play with, but what can they do to an 800XL? And even if they manage to break it somehow, what is $25 when compared to what they're learning? So don't just try to divert them with a junk keyboard, put some time into helping them learn to use the stuff too. Believe me, 15 months is *not* too young, and it will save you a lot of yelling and frustration when they're terrible two! Aaron From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Feb 1 11:44:41 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF In-Reply-To: <34D4B1F3.8540D8F0@rain.org> from "Marvin" at Feb 1, 98 09:33:39 am Message-ID: <9802011744.AA11579@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 893 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980201/c71ed04c/attachment.ksh From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 1 15:41:45 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: C-64c probs Message-ID: <01bd2f5a$3157ed50$1269420c@magnum> My 3 year old is already telling me how to use "HER" sofware! and my 15 month old plays a lot with my test equipment (there are more buttons). I got my daughter started on a VIC20 then she moved to a PC (she loved maing it beep). Gotta find a list for Kids and computer learning :) -----Original Message----- From: Aaron Christopher Finney To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 11:42 AM Subject: Re: C-64c probs >I have two little ones, 2 /12 years and 15 months, and I try to get them as involved with this stuff as possible. My older guy loves to help me clean and restore the systems, as well as play games and simple learning progs (I have to admit that he's not turning out to be normal, he's got quite a knack for the stuff already). I wrote a nice program for the younger guy for the Atari 8, it divides the keyboard into 4 sections and a different colour/sound part executes depending on which quadrant he touches. He's already learned to be gentle with the keybards, so nothing gets hurt and he's learning how to use a computer! My older son learned the same way, and I just gradually made more sections of the keyboard until now he can type any letter or number on the keyboard (we're working on the other characters). > >Why all this rambling? And what does it have to do with classic computers? Well, my dad had his hobbies that were "adult stuff" and I was excluded (collecting old rifles). Older computers are a fun hobby for me, but are also something that lets me invest time with my kids and teaches them skills that will give them an advantage in life. Older computers, especially the ones that are so plentiful and inexpensive right now (C64's, Ataris, etc) are perfect for teaching them this stuff. I admit that I would be a little nervous about leaving my new Dell laptop on the floor for them to play with, but what can they do to an 800XL? And even if they manage to break it somehow, what is $25 when compared to what they're learning? So don't just try to divert them with a junk keyboard, put some time into helping them learn to use the stuff too. Believe me, 15 months is *not* too young, and it will save you a lot of yelling and frustration when they're terrible two! > >Aaron From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Feb 1 17:38:38 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF In-Reply-To: <9802011744.AA11579@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <34D4B1F3.8540D8F0@rain.org> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980201153838.033b0280@agora.rdrop.com> At 09:44 AM 2/1/98 -0800, you wrote: >> I have several leads on people with S-100 boards so if you are looking for >> something specific, let me know. Can't promise anything except that I will >> check around. I would think that most, if not all, S-100 stuff would work >> in the Altair. >It depends. Most later good-quality boards follow the IEEE-696 >standard, which requires modifications to the front panel circuitry >of a Altair or IMSAI. And make sure that they are still 8-bit boards! Some of the later Godbout/Ithica Audio, etc. stuff went to 16 bit which will freak out an Altair/IMSAI front panel something awful! >And the Altair backplane is so poorly designed that it's nearly impossible >to run a CPU above 2 MHz in it Well... I'll take minor exception to this statement. I ran (and still do) the Cromemco (and other) Z-80 boards at 4mHz with little difficulty, and saw others get tweaked as high as 10mHz! >Some improvement is had by installing Compupro/Godbout terminators at the far end. No dispute here... Termination is good! I tended to add it to most of my machines in later days. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Feb 1 18:34:16 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: Visual Basic for DOS? Message-ID: <19980202003417.19055.qmail@hotmail.com> It is my understanding that there was once a (Microsoft?) Visual Basic for DOS. Was it like VB for Windows, and was it any better than QBasic? If someone has a copy, could they let me (ahem) borrow it? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 1 15:55:46 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: IBM PC/XT-286 Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 706 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980201/c73efdd2/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 1 15:34:32 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: eBay and online auctions In-Reply-To: from "William Donzelli" at Jan 31, 98 08:57:35 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2569 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980201/8329b381/attachment.ksh From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Feb 1 18:56:49 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: Visual Basic for DOS? References: <19980202003417.19055.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <34D519D1.E6ECF0A8@halcyon.com> Max, There was a Microsoft QuickBasic for DOS. I believe it got up to at least version 4.0. I used it long ago on a project or two. You probably can find a cheap (~$20?) copy of this at some used software store, like Half Price Software. Dave Max Eskin wrote: > > It is my understanding that there was once a (Microsoft?) Visual Basic > for DOS. Was it like VB for Windows, and was it any better than QBasic? > If someone has a copy, could they let me (ahem) borrow it? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 330 bytes Desc: Card for David C. Jenner Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980201/ed6f834f/vcard.vcf From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Feb 1 19:01:17 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: C-64c probs Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980201200008.007167e8@netpath.net> At 11:29 AM 2/1/98 -0600, you wrote: >The best way to deal with that is to create a diversion: place an old >keyboard on the floor and let the little one play with it. >It works for a while;) Been there, done that. :) That's one good thing about having a GRiD laptop laying around: I can give her a working computer to play with, and know I'll get a working computer back. Note: This is Ontopic, since it deals with the preservation of my old computers! :) -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 1 15:49:50 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: eBay and online auctions In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980201085515.2ddf3802@intellistar.net> from "Joe" at Feb 1, 98 08:55:15 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 501 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980201/f1e49fad/attachment.ksh From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 1 19:33:50 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: Development, round II References: <199801301515.AA17815@world.std.com> Message-ID: <34D5227E.1B78@konnections.com> Sorry All: I've been out of town since early Friday, so I wanted to do some housekeeping... No, I don't remember that Intel ever had a big prob with the '286. The first big foul up they had was the something to do with a fraction error which gave incorrect results on large real fraction. It wasn't an error problem so much as an accuracy problem. It wasn't good to as many places as it should have been. There was another '386 bug, as I recall that broke on certain multiplications or divides, can't remember, they may have even been the same error. IBM would have had no reason to "cripple" something with an AT chip in it. I recall, as Allison states, that it was a way to use up XT hardware, but put some AT capabilities in. If there were any limitations it was from the supporting IC's or hardware, NOT the 80286... -Mike Allison J Parent wrote: > > <1. The AT had been deliberately set up so that it couldn't make one of > > Incorrect. the I286 has real and protected modes and intel for some > wacky reason gave you a way to go from real to protected but not back. > The only way to get to real mode agan was...reset! > > <2. Intel had a fault on a large batch of 286s that couldn't do some of > > Nope, xt286 was a way to put a cheap system of slightly higher performance > out there using slower parts. > > Allison From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 1 19:50:05 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: eBay and online auctions References: <199801310148.AA09052@world.std.com> Message-ID: <34D5264D.2305@konnections.com> Actually, The Transputer folks say that the transputer itself is decades old (and thus qualifies) even though INMOS may nt have market their popular versions until the late 80's -Mike Allison J Parent wrote: > > < Actually, though, building a Transputer system is pretty easy. I did so > > Now the transputer is one that I never got to play with but would have > liked to. > > Allison From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 1 19:57:54 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: Win 3.0 References: <01bd2da0$7888f220$LocalHost@hotze> <34d23d02.1273710@mail.swbell.net> <34D2518F.F43AA2B0@cnct.com> <34d36521.11544740@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: <34D52822.5DC8@konnections.com> I used a Micropolis 60 Meg from 1988 to 1992 or so as my main drive. I still use it in a couple of machines when I need to do 8086/80286 stuff and don't have a drive. I think it's fast and reliable for its vintage. Never had a problem, UNLESS, you try to PARK the drives, in which case you can get them interminably stuck.... Don't "Park" these later drives, they park all by themselves... -Mike Barry Peterson wrote: > > On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 17:17:51 -0500, you said: > > >Barry Peterson wrote: > >> > >> I sold a drive (IIRC, a micropolis 85MB) that would spool up and then > >> do a couple of "ching-chings" and worked fine. I tested the livin' > >> daylights out of it; no problems, but many folks told me and the > >> fellow I sold it to that it would die immediately. > > > >So how long has the guy you sold it to been using it? (I've had bad > >luck with the Micropolis 40MB drives in some AT&T 3B1s). > > I had it for >3 years, he had it for two more, now his grandson has > it... So far, so good. > _______________ > > Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net > Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, > Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From groberts at mitre.org Sun Feb 1 19:29:09 1998 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: Columbia (was EPROM programmers) In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980130202754.2467b58c@intellistar.net> References: <3.0.32.19980130165855.006c41dc@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980201202909.00f6afa8@mail90> At 08:27 PM 1/30/98, Joe wrote: >I had completely forgotten about having that Columbia until you asked >about the programmer. Anyone know much about this computer? I've never >used it for anything but EPROM programming i've got an old columbia as well. worked with them quite a bit when they first came out. even have an old tech. ref. somewhere. as i recall columbia computer products saw a market opportunity when IBM first came out with the XT. IBM couldn't keep up with demand and columbia came out with an XT clone and they were selling them like hotcakes for a while. soon they lost their competitive edge to the herds of clone makers but for a while they were quite the rising star in the young PC clone industry. - glenn +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts@mitre.org From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 1 20:13:24 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: Visual Basic for DOS? References: <19980202003417.19055.qmail@hotmail.com> <34D519D1.E6ECF0A8@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <34D52BC4.7A93@konnections.com> Max: I believe a shop in town had version 1.0 of VBasic. I'll check and see if it ran on DOS. I think the whole idea was windows' programming, so I can't see why, but one never knows.... There's also MS Basic compiler and QBasic. I think as Dave said, QBasic is as close as you'll get. I'll check tomorrow (monday) or Tuesday, fersher. -Mike David C. Jenner wrote: > > Max, > > There was a Microsoft QuickBasic for DOS. I believe it got up to at > least version 4.0. I used it long ago on a project or two. > > You probably can find a cheap (~$20?) copy of this at some used software > store, like Half Price Software. > > Dave > > Max Eskin wrote: > > > > It is my understanding that there was once a (Microsoft?) Visual Basic > > for DOS. Was it like VB for Windows, and was it any better than QBasic? > > If someone has a copy, could they let me (ahem) borrow it? > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Name: vcard.vcf > Part 1.2 Type: text/x-vcard > Encoding: 7bit > Description: Card for David C. Jenner From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 1 20:26:20 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: "i"486 Message-ID: <34D52ECC.3046@konnections.com> The "i" (intel) prefix is an intel copyright. It has been used, afaik since the beginning, esp the 80x86 series, as this is the iAXP series of microprocessor. Many took to using "x86" notation to avoid the copyright issues of "i86" -Mike Allison From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 1 20:32:21 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: Development, round II (OS/2) References: <01bd2d84$9f7acc80$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <34D53035.577A@konnections.com> I think one of the biggest OS/2 problems was that the DOS and Windows boxes weren't 100% compatible at all times and management was an issue between OS/2 and winders. OS/2 Warp had one of the best Internet systems I've used. Seemed very fast for the 14.4Kbps modem I was using at the time. There is still much sharware and freeware out there, as well as some programs (many high end supporting OS/2 - mainframe connectivity) -Mike Hotze wrote: > > >BTW What is Warp? Is it the OS/2 windowing system? If so, why would I > >want to use it at all, let alone on a 286? ;-) > Yes, it is. Actually, if I remember, it came out in 1994, but it could have > been early 1995, but definately PRE WINDOWS '95! You might want to use it > for several reasons: If you've got software for it. There's WordPerfect for > Warp, Netscape Navigator for Warp, amongst others. Actually, if you ask me, > Warp's more of a competitor to NT than '95, as it's definately not > consumer-oriented. It features a *nice* plug and play system. Actually, > the interface on the older Warp's looks AMAZINGLY like Windows '95, which > makes me wonder if it was copied, and who copied who. > Theoretically, IBM's designing a completely new version of OS/2 Warp, > called 'Bluebird' or something. This is a guess, but it's probably going to > be NT as well as '95 compatible, plus rock-solid stability, much better than > NT. > The reason that we're using Windows as opposed to OS/2 is (in my > opinion) because IBM did two things: With Windows 3.0 and 3.1, they waited > until AFTER the MS release, and made it Windows compatible. They had > relatively high success, but they weren't happy with it. So, with the 32 > bit version, they released BEFORE Windows, but ruined all their success. > The advantage is that if you want to run Windows 3.x apps with the current > version of OS/2, you get 32 bit performance, compatiblity, and many of the > features of a "next-generation" operating system. > It's a good alternitive for people who want a Windows look and feel, but > without the "Microsoft" beofore the name. > I could be wrong on most/all of this, so please feel free to correct me. > Hope that his helps, > > Tim D. Hotze From djenner at halcyon.com Sun Feb 1 20:54:08 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: Visual Basic for DOS? References: <19980202003417.19055.qmail@hotmail.com> <34D519D1.E6ECF0A8@halcyon.com> <34D52BC4.7A93@konnections.com> Message-ID: <34D53550.BC7FD7B8@halcyon.com> Well, I should have checked before responding. Here is more (correct) detail: 1) QBasic is not QuickBasic; QBasic came with DOS, QuickBasic was a more extensive, separate product. 2) QuickBasic got to version 4.5 in 1988. 3) Versions 1 (1991) through 3 (1993) of Visual Basic were available for DOS (as well as Windows). QuickBasic was based on a GUI, albeit in character mode. Dave Mike Allison wrote: > > Max: > > I believe a shop in town had version 1.0 of VBasic. I'll check and see > if it ran on DOS. I think the whole idea was windows' programming, so I > can't see why, but one never knows.... > > There's also MS Basic compiler and QBasic. > > I think as Dave said, QBasic is as close as you'll get. I'll check > tomorrow (monday) or Tuesday, fersher. > > -Mike > > David C. Jenner wrote: > > > > Max, > > > > There was a Microsoft QuickBasic for DOS. I believe it got up to at > > least version 4.0. I used it long ago on a project or two. > > > > You probably can find a cheap (~$20?) copy of this at some used software > > store, like Half Price Software. > > > > Dave > > > > Max Eskin wrote: > > > > > > It is my understanding that there was once a (Microsoft?) Visual Basic > > > for DOS. Was it like VB for Windows, and was it any better than QBasic? > > > If someone has a copy, could they let me (ahem) borrow it? > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > > > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Name: vcard.vcf > > Part 1.2 Type: text/x-vcard > > Encoding: 7bit > > Description: Card for David C. Jenner -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 330 bytes Desc: Card for David C. Jenner Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980201/be8d0d6d/vcard.vcf From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Feb 1 20:58:01 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: "i"486 In-Reply-To: <34D52ECC.3046@konnections.com> from "Mike Allison" at Feb 1, 98 07:26:20 pm Message-ID: <9802020258.AA07447@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 385 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980201/07ec143d/attachment.ksh From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Feb 1 19:37:45 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: Visual Basic for DOS? In-Reply-To: <34D519D1.E6ECF0A8@halcyon.com> References: <19980202003417.19055.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >Dave wrote: >>Max Eskin wrote: >> >> It is my understanding that there was once a (Microsoft?) Visual Basic >> for DOS. Was it like VB for Windows, and was it any better than QBasic? > >There was a Microsoft QuickBasic for DOS. I believe it got up to at >least version 4.0. I used it long ago on a project or two. > >You probably can find a cheap (~$20?) copy of this at some used software >store, like Half Price Software. The commercially available version of QuickBasic differs from the one that comes with DOS in part by being compiliable. Some versions support 16-bit OS/2. There was a version of Visual Basic for DOS, I think it was around the version 2 timeframe, or it might have been between 1 & 2. In any case your best bet of finding it would be the used software places. I think it was pretty short lived, as it came out at about the time MS quit doing DOS stuff. I can't remember if it let you share your code with the standard VB, but I think it did. In any case it would be better than the commercial QuickBasic, and either is better than what comes with DOS. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Feb 1 21:00:26 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: Apple //e Message-ID: <6d126abb.34d536cc@aol.com> I'd like to find a copy of metal or modem MGR. anyone have copies of either? david In a message dated 98-01-31 15:54:59 EST, you write: << Some things that I would like to find are an Apple //e system, a copy of Networks II BBS, and a copy of Nexus BBS. I'm pretty sure that along my travels I will eventually find the Apple //e but I don't know if I have a chance of finding either piece of software. >> From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 1 22:16:20 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF In-Reply-To: <34D4B1F3.8540D8F0@rain.org> References: <19980131112627.21313.qmail@hotmail.com> <3.0.1.16.19980201084741.427f0b2a@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980201221620.2ff7909c@intellistar.net> Marvin, At 09:33 AM 2/1/98 -0800, you wrote: >Joe wrote: > >> I have an Intel developement system. Almost never use it. I should get >> rid of it. I ould be interested in any S-100 stuff that you find that >> will work in an Altair. >> >> Joe > >Hi Joe, > >I have several leads on people with S-100 boards so if you are looking for >something specific, let me know. Can't promise anything except that I will I don't know enough about the Altair to be specific. I would like to get some kind of tape cassette, video interface and keyboard interface for it. The keyboard interfaces can be tricky. There are keyboards with serial interfaces, matrixs and parallel interfaces, so you'd almost have to get a keyboard with it. I think the same applies to a cassette interface. I don't know if the tapes are different depending on the interface or not. One of the other things that I need is software disks or tapes. I have manuals for North Star monitor and BASIC and other programs but not the software. I also have a manual for Microsoft Basic 80 but no software. >check around. I would think that most, if not all, S-100 stuff would work >in the Altair. It is possible that compatability with the actual MITS >boards could be a problem though; Allison, Jim or a few others could >probably say more about board compatibility. The Intel Development System I >have hasn't even been fired up (my me!) yet as I acquired it only to add to >the collection. > > Idea - Something that might be really interesting at the next VCF is to >have a number of operating tools for people to see what was used and how it >was used to develop hardware and software for the early microcomputer >systems. Yes, that would be nice but I doubt I'll make it to VCF. I'm too far away. I'd like to learn more about the IDS. They seem to be a very versatile systems and I have a lot of interesting accessories for mine. (like In Circuit Emulators.) > > Joe > > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Feb 1 20:58:33 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: Development, round II Message-ID: <393fea47.34d5365c@aol.com> i ran version 3.0 on a 386dx40 and wasnt bad, although it took almost 10 minutes to restore an archive! i had it running on a dx2-80 with 8 meg, and was pretty snappy. it was interesting to place the swap file on the second hard drive, so you could hear when vm was being used. Ive experimented with version 4.0 but setting up my nic and a pnp soundblaster was difficult. thankfully, there are plenty of os2 advocates out there in comp.sys.os2.* that can help out. os2 trivia: os2 had a START command way before BILLGe thought of it! david In a message dated 98-01-31 10:36:27 EST, you write: << I ran OS/2 v. 2 on a friends system (and helped him with the memory upgrade from 16 to 32 meg). I also ran the Rexx gopher server on version 3 (Warp) on a system with 16 Megs of RAM. I never ran Windows 3.1 or Windows 95 on either machine so I cannot make a direct comparison (Win NT 3.51 was running on the latter machine long enough to allow setting up the OS/2 installation). We also played around with the Voice control on a beta release of Merlin (thanks for reminding me of the code name) but that machine was eventually pressed into service running NT (I never saw it after that). The advice of "you should have more than 4 MB RAM" was taken from my friend (who is still quite the OS/2 zealot) and I thought that I had read it in the paperback version of the OS/2 FAQ as well - but I could easily be mistaken about that latter source. I am quite glad to hear that your performance was so good with only 4 MB - great OS isn't it? >> From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 1 21:33:29 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: Stuff, while we're at it... References: <199801310145.RAA15143@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34D53E89.2A54@konnections.com> Manny: Sorry I haven't responded, I've been in Vegas since friday am. The MAC stuff is yours, if you desire. The only exception is the 5mb bernouli which was spoken for (but not yet taken) if that works out it's gone. I do have another 20MB bernouli, but I need the enclosure, you can have the drive though, if you like. Lemme know you're address and I'll check the shipping and send you back a total for your decision. Thanks, Mike Allison PG Manney wrote: > > I'd be interested in the Mac stuff > > manney@nwohio.com From sethm at loomcom.com Sun Feb 1 21:30:53 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: VAXStation 2000 start-up questions Message-ID: <199802020330.TAA00503@loomcom.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1572 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980201/cd44a155/attachment.ksh From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sun Feb 1 21:35:49 1998 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: FW: PDP-8 or 11 wanted in Idaho Message-ID: <34d53eb7.100008144@mail.wizards.net> Anyone help this fellow out? If so, please respond directly to him. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!news.he.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!205.139.62.16!news-incoming.cyberhighway.net!news.cyberhighway.net!not-for-mail From: "HeVi@rTi" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Subject: wanted. PDP 8 or 11/45 /50 /65 Date: Sun, 01 Feb 1998 12:48:20 -0800 Organization: wouldn't you like to know Lines: 4 Message-ID: <34D4DF93.1DB4@cyberhighway.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.139.62.220 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (Win16; I) Xref: Supernews70 alt.sys.pdp11:2976 looking for pdp-11's in idaho. also after pdp-8's my uncle needs a smallmainframe, and i figure an 8 or 11 will do the trick...mebbe pop a few vt-100s on.. heviarti@cyberhighway.net -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 1 21:41:08 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: Computone Port Card References: Message-ID: <34D54054.14BA@konnections.com> I guess Sam's more exact. It has the rj-11 package or form factor. i didn't know the different # of wires led to different names, as I've seen 2,4 and 6 pair phone jacks based on the # of separate lines. -Mike Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > > > Mike Allison wrote: > > > > > > Am I sure they're RJ11, no. They're physically the same jack with six > > > live wires. But beyond that, how would I know??? > > > > RJ-11 is four wires. Standard phone jack. > > Incorrect. RJ-11 is a single pair jack. RJ-14 is two-pair. However, > both are in the same form factor. > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Feb 1 19:33:11 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:44 2005 Subject: What files are RT-11 master distribution? Message-ID: <008801bd2f8c$11d2da80$54987c0a@office1> On Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:32:45 -0800 (PST), Tim Shoppa wrote: >>Either Orange or Blue DEC binders, depending on the upgrade path that >>the previous owner took. All of the binders that I have have grey covers. >>Look for two files of the form DISMT.COM and DISMT2.COM. These >>will have the definitive list of all files on the official RT-11 V4.00 >>distribution. If you're missing these - or any other files - tell >>me what media your machine has and I'll get you copies of these and >>whatever other files you're missing. Nope, I don't have either of these files. I got 4 RK05 packs with this system, three of which work. None of these disks have these files on them. I'd love to get a whole copy of the V4 distribution, if you have it (since it would match the manuals that I have). Right now, the only media that my machine has is the RK05 disk packs. I'm looking to get a paper tape reader/punch, but I haven't been able to find one yet. I'd also like to put an RX02 (??) dual-floppy on it. Maybe in February, when I go to my Temple Univ. "supply house." What interface boards do I need to hang a dual-floppy off of the PDP-11/34a? Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 1 21:56:38 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:45 2005 Subject: Tansputer Compilers References: Message-ID: <34D543F6.4F39@konnections.com> Yeah, INMOS donated their OCCAM compiler and there's a OCCAM for All initiative to create free OCCAM compilers on all platforms. Also, MINIX was ported to the Transputer back in 92 or 94. Take a look at hensa's unix site at: http://www.hensa.ac.uk/parallel for their transputer stuff. -Mike Tony Duell wrote: > > > It's certainly a fun device. Alas I've never tried writing machine code > for it (although I now have the somewhat hard-to-find instruction set > book), and I don't have any compilers for it here. Do such things exist > under the GPL, for example - I've never looked. > > > -tony From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 1 22:14:26 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:45 2005 Subject: EPROM Boot ROM Programming Message-ID: <34D54822.47FB@konnections.com> You Smart Folks: Can anyone give me some clues on a minimal set up to program boot ROMs for IBM PC & AT comps. I want to build DOS & ? boot roms, but I only have a faint idea where to start. What's the minimum and what are some good lowend chips to use that can be easily reused as development goes on?? Thanks, -Mike (PS, I don't want to get too far off topic, so please mail me directly, if poss..) mallison@konnections.com Thanks From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Feb 1 22:15:34 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:45 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3 EPROM Programmer Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980201231529.006af640@netpath.net> I came across a program yesterday called GRiDROM.EXE. Apparently, it was used to drive an EPROM Programmer via the GRiDCase 3's serial port. My only question now is this: Would this most likley be a proprietary EPROM Burner or could I use any model, as long as it talked through the serial port? I know nothing of EPROM Programmers, so be gentle. :) -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 1 22:21:01 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:45 2005 Subject: Visual Basic for DOS? References: <19980202003417.19055.qmail@hotmail.com> <34D519D1.E6ECF0A8@halcyon.com> <34D52BC4.7A93@konnections.com> <34D53550.BC7FD7B8@halcyon.com> Message-ID: <34D549AD.40BE@konnections.com> I kept thinking that there was a separate QuickBasic compiler that one had to purchase, but then I couldn't think of why you'd buy QBasic, when you got QBasic. I guess that spells it out. -Mike David C. Jenner wrote: > > Well, I should have checked before responding. Here is more (correct) > detail: > > 1) QBasic is not QuickBasic; QBasic came with DOS, QuickBasic was a more > extensive, separate product. > 2) QuickBasic got to version 4.5 in 1988. > 3) Versions 1 (1991) through 3 (1993) of Visual Basic were available for > DOS (as well as Windows). > > QuickBasic was based on a GUI, albeit in character mode. > > Dave > From william at ans.net Sun Feb 1 22:19:42 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:45 2005 Subject: eBay and online auctions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Yes, but I've never met an FPGA (and I've used most Xilinx families, > Altera, etc parts) where you could reassign power pins. Also, most (all?) > have a high-speed clock line that you should use for your master clock if > at all possible. FPGAs are not a 'drop-in' replacement for just any logic > chip. I would like to make it clear that I am talking about possibilties ten or twenty years from now. I realize that today's FPGAs would not stand a chance replacing anything better than something more complex as a 2901. > Impossible. There could be hidden registers that were never accessed > while you're looking at it. You would have to check _every_ possible mode > and _know_ you'd checked every possible mode. That's impossible if you > don't even have a specification of the chip. Maybe not 100 percent, but maybe really close. Once again, think when you will have something the power of a big T3E on your desk. > That's not the worry, although fitting that sort of logic into _any_ FPGA > would be an interesting task. Gate arrays and FPGAs are not THAT different. Anyway, real gate arrays are getting like circuit boards - quick turnaround for just about anyone. Someday they might even be so reasonably priced that any hobbiest could special order one, just like the small circuit board shops. > Sure, and standard macros exist, and will continue to exist, for most > FPGA devices. THe problem is that a chip this complex is going to have > some undocumented features that may or may not be used. Finding them, > figuring out how to implement them, etc, is going to be a lot of work. If you do not get it correct the first time, well, then you get to have some fun. William Donzelli william@ans.net From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Feb 1 22:30:45 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:45 2005 Subject: EPROM Boot ROM Programming In-Reply-To: <34D54822.47FB@konnections.com> from "Mike Allison" at Feb 1, 98 09:14:26 pm Message-ID: <9802020430.AA05721@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 866 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980201/a36cfef4/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Feb 1 22:36:01 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:45 2005 Subject: What files are RT-11 master distribution? In-Reply-To: <008801bd2f8c$11d2da80$54987c0a@office1> from "Richard A. Cini" at Feb 1, 98 08:33:11 pm Message-ID: <9802020436.AA12620@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1835 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980201/1888487e/attachment.ksh From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Feb 1 23:10:26 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:45 2005 Subject: C-64c probs References: <199802010802.AAA44568@lists.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34D55542.6E3@goldrush.com> From: John Higginbotham Subject: C-64c probs > > I was playing around with the C-64c I picked up last month... It came with > a 1541 floppy... > > I think I have a problem: Don't believe what those 'other' people say, collecting old computers is O.K. *grin* > > Turn on floppy > turn on C-64c > C-64c inits the drive (light blinks, then goes out) Sounds normal for a 15xx reset... > insert disk > type LOAD "$",8 > nothing happens, no drive light, no response from the 64. > > What's going on here? Drive misalign? How do I realign? Bad drive? Bad cable? I'd start with the cables and connectors... Also try loading ,9 10 or 11, it is possible that they rigged that 1541 to be a higher device number than 8. Have you tried reading the error channel: 10 open 15,8,15,"i0":rem initilize disk (no, this is not a format command...) 20 input#15,e,e$,t,s:rem read error channel 30 close 15: print e,e$,t,s if the disk is alive and device 9 it should report something like "0 ok 0 0" > Anyone have one or two extra 1541 floppy drives they want to sell? I find them pretty regularly at thrift shops and flea markets for a fraction of what the shipping would be. I would suggest you hunt about a bit first. If you want to brush up on Commodore 8-bit drive usage I have two guides on-line: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/diskbasics.html http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/loadingbasics.html Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From kermit at talent.com.au Mon Feb 2 02:53:33 1998 From: kermit at talent.com.au (Ken Hall) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:45 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ken Hall Kermit@talent.com.au 9452 6280 0414 264 065 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Feb 2 04:37:40 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:45 2005 Subject: The Hardware Book Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980202053430.006f5c14@netpath.net> I found this link this morning and thought that it would be of great use to the group, so here it is: The Hardware Book http://www.blackdown.org/~hwb/hwb.html Welcome to the Hardware Book. Internet's largest free collection of connector pinouts and cable descriptions. Created and maintained by Joakim ?gren. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 2 07:00:39 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:45 2005 Subject: EPROM Boot ROM Programming In-Reply-To: <34D54822.47FB@konnections.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980202070039.434f4bfc@intellistar.net> At 09:14 PM 2/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >You Smart Folks: > >Can anyone give me some clues on a minimal set up to program boot ROMs >for IBM PC & AT comps. I want to build DOS & ? boot roms, but I only >have a faint idea where to start. > >What's the minimum and what are some good lowend chips to use that can >be easily reused as development goes on?? > >Thanks, > >-Mike > >(PS, I don't want to get too far off topic, so please mail me directly, >if poss..) > >mallison@konnections.com > >Thanks > No. Post it here, I want to know too. This is over ten years old and is appropriate here. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 2 07:07:25 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:45 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3 EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980201231529.006af640@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980202070725.434f7bf8@intellistar.net> No idea. Have you tried examining the program with a hex editor like List to see if it shows who wrote it? Look for the Copyright notice. also see it has any error or help massages buried in it. If it's written by one of the EPROM burner makers like Sunshine, they should be able to tell you about it. Considering the name, it sounds like it was written specifically for the Grid. If you run it with no ERPOM burner attached, it will probably give you an error message stating that the burner is not attached to port X. That should give you a clue. Joe At 11:15 PM 2/1/98 -0500, you wrote: >I came across a program yesterday called GRiDROM.EXE. Apparently, it was >used to drive an EPROM Programmer via the GRiDCase 3's serial port. My only >question now is this: > >Would this most likley be a proprietary EPROM Burner or could I use any >model, as long as it talked through the serial port? > >I know nothing of EPROM Programmers, so be gentle. :) > > >-John Higginbotham- >-limbo.netpath.net- > From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Feb 2 06:26:02 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:45 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3 EPROM Programmer Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980202072545.006dbd40@netpath.net> At 07:07 AM 2/2/98, you wrote: > If you run it with no ERPOM burner attached, it will probably give you >an error message stating that the burner is not attached to port X. That >should give you a clue. It runs fine, it doesn't go out looking for the burner until you tell it to actually burn something. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Mon Feb 2 07:19:56 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Fairchild Channel F Message-ID: <01bd2fdd$414d1310$1268420c@magnum> Hi, I found a Channel F on saturday. I'm having some problem with it: The horizontal lines are dashed. Could someone point me to a good hardware ref or help me out in troubleshooting it? Also it doesn't read the carts, I can select the internal game but the carts are not seen. Thank you. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980202/abfb7824/attachment.html From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Feb 2 07:42:29 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Visual Basic for DOS? In-Reply-To: <19980202003417.19055.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13329123554.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I have a copy, it's pretty much just MS Basic with a text-based windowing system on top. I may be able to let a copy go out, seeing as I hardly ever use mine, but wouldn't that be breaking the End-Luser-Agreement? ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Feb 2 08:08:40 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: I think this RD54 is dead... Message-ID: <13329128319.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I think this RD54 may have died. It DID have the spin-up disease, (Wouldn't spin up), but this was just a bad case of stiction. I spun the disk and it worked. Now, I try to format the disk (test 70 on uVAX 2000) and it acts funny. Before, it would only recognise as unit 1. It would fail the RdMbb step, format would be OK, and the Checkpass would take eternity. (I let it run overnight, it completed 3 dots.) I set it to unit 0, same trick but the RdMbb is OK. Jumper problem? ------- From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 2 08:46:25 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF Message-ID: <199802021446.AA06752@world.std.com> < I'd like to get away from having to use a terminal. The only terminal Message-ID: On Sat, 31 Jan 1998, Marvin wrote: > Allison J Parent wrote: > > > > the 80/10a was a multibus 8080 card. I have a few but they are fried. > > When I get crazy I'll fix them. The 80/10 desn't date from '76 though > > the '76 is the date intel trademarked the MULTIBUS name. > > When I read your message, I took another look at the card, and the date was > actually 1978 but the chips had code dates in 1977 and 1985 respectively. > Any idea what that 80/10B card is? It has a label on the back indicating > some type of Intel license was needed to use the software which I am > guessing is in the four onboard ROMs. I think I have a hardware manual for this. I am cleaning (again!) and will - if I find it - put it in my *somebody wants* stack. I got a lot of manuals from the place I got my MDS-800 - including a preliminary FPL (floating point package) manaul that is - well - obtuse! Let me look for a week and I will let you know if I find anything. BC From bgjenero at undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca Mon Feb 2 09:25:18 1998 From: bgjenero at undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca (Boris Gjenero) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: I think this RD54 is dead... References: <13329128319.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <34D5E55E.1604D1A4@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca> Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > I think this RD54 may have died. It DID have the spin-up disease, (Wouldn't > spin up), but this was just a bad case of stiction. I spun the disk and it worked. > Now, I try to format the disk (test 70 on uVAX 2000) and it acts funny. > Before, it would only recognise as unit 1. It would fail > the RdMbb step, format would be OK, and the Checkpass would take eternity. > (I let it run overnight, it completed 3 dots.) It seems to me that the Checkpass does that if there are too many bad sectors on the disk. (There may be other causes too.) I'm not sure how to deal with such a problem. I have an RD53 with too many bad sectors. The format hung even after I changed all the appropriate parameters so that there were sufficient replacement blocks. (You know, this really makes me question my belief in the immortality of RD53s :-) > I set it to unit 0, same trick but the RdMbb is OK. > Jumper problem? I think that the ID jumper on the drive has to be set to 3. -- | Boris Gjenero | | Home page: http://www.undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca/~bgjenero/ | | "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to | | depend greatly on our own point of view." - Obi-Wan Kenobi, ROTJ | From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Feb 2 10:30:05 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF In-Reply-To: allisonp@world.std.com's message of Mon, 2 Feb 1998 09:46:25 -0500 References: <199802021446.AA06752@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199802021630.IAA01086@daemonweed.reanimators.org> allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: > < I'd like to get away from having to use a terminal. The only terminal > > The hp thing would not work. Try and scrounge up a vt100 or other more > commonplace terminal vt100, vt220, heath/zenith h19, PC running Procomm > or other term program. Remember complaints about programmers thinking "all the world's a VAX"? Now it's time to work on the ones who think "all the world's a VT100." I used to use an HP2645 as a terminal on a Compupro CP/M system, so am sure it can be done. But it definitely depends on the expectations of the software running on the computer. If it isn't assuming anything more capable than a Teletype, things will be fine. If your BIOS or other terminal I/O support wants the terminal to do ^S/^Q flow control it will be disappointed (264xs don't, 262xs and later can be configured to do so but don't by default). If your applications expect the terminal to act like a VT100 by way of responding to VT100 or ANSI escape sequences (i.e. suffering from "all the world's a VT100" disease) then the easiest thing to do is to get a VT100-alike as Allison suggests. All that said, if you want help getting the HP terminal working feel free to ask. If you'd sooner use a terminal emulator on some other computer, that's OK too and probably more functional. -Frank McConnell From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Feb 2 09:57:36 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Dumpster Safari! (Stil: Off-topic...) In-Reply-To: <9801310307.AA07841@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <3.0.32.19980130215619.006c7f04@netpath.net> from "John Higginbotham" at Jan 30, 98 09:56:52 pm Message-ID: <199802021619.KAA20009@onyx.southwind.net> > > >I don't know of any *real* military surplus stores around SF anymore; > > >though you'd think there would be some, what with Mare Island Naval > > >ShipYard, Treasure Island, Alameda (Nuclear Wessels!), The Presidio, etc. > > > > > >There are a few electronics surplus stores around, especially down in the > > >(silicon) valley. > > As far as military surplus electronics goes, the end-all and be-all will > always be Fair Radio Sales of Lima, OH. They're even on the web now: > http://alpha.wcoil.com/~fairadio/ > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > Yeah, but they're still a rip-off. Their prices were high in the late 70's when I used to get their catalog, and they're high now. Jeff From william at ans.net Mon Feb 2 10:47:24 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Dumpster Safari! (Stil: Off-topic...) In-Reply-To: <199802021619.KAA20009@onyx.southwind.net> Message-ID: > Yeah, but they're still a rip-off. Their prices were high in the > late 70's when I used to get their catalog, and they're high now. And they keep selling the stuff! The reasons that the stuff is not "hamfest special priced" is that they can get decent money for some of the stuff from foriegn governments, and that they have a huge overhead. When you buy surplus from the military, you buy lots, not items. You may have to purchase six tons of dented waveguides just to get the nice HP frequency counters buried below. William Donzelli william@ans.net From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Feb 2 11:33:28 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) Message-ID: <9801028864.AA886470134@compsci.powertech.co.uk> >>Is it some kind of "Super CGA" that wasn't really supported by anyone? > > I know some game companies "tweaked" certain memory registers or something > so that standard CGA could do 320x200x16 colors, but as far as I'm aware, > there was only 320x200x4 and 640x400x2 for CGA, 640x400x16 for EGA, and of > course 320x200x256 for MCGA. (The latter was what my Compact IBM PS/2 Mac > wannabe had) I never heard of 320 x 200 x 16 for the CGA - I seem to remember 160 x 200 x 16 - surely it would not have had the memory for the other? The CGA never did 640 x 400 x 2 that I ever heard of - I assume that was a typing error for 640 x 200 x 2. The EGA did 640 x 200 x 16 on a CGA monitor, 640 x [was it 400 or was it 350] x [a number of colours dependent on the memory installed] on an EGA monitor, and even did 640 x 350 x 3 (I think) on an MDA monitor. I also once saw a demonstration on a CGA card that changed colours in real time faster than the scan rate and so gave more colours than you'd expect. But I digress. What was the question again? :-) Philip. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Feb 2 11:38:45 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Development, round II Message-ID: <9801028864.AA886470317@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > > >BTW What is Warp? Is it the OS/2 windowing system? If so, why would I > > >want to use it at all, let alone on a 286? ;-) > > > > Warp is OS/2v3. You couldn't use it on a 286, but if you had, say, a > > 486/33 -- do pardon me for mentioning a nine-year-old part -- it would > > begin to be worth playing with. My copy of Warp is still very much to > > hand, and I think anyone who can scrounge up an appropriate computer should > > run it (for a while) if they have the opportunity, because it's a real > > education. > > Runs just peachy on my old 386/25. Faster than Windows 3.1 did, not > that that's a compliment. I will admit that I prefer it, though of > course all of my high-end machines run Linux. I seem to be reading a lot of good things about OS/2 here apart from the price. Since it looks as though I may have found a source of decent hard disk drives for my Compaq LTE Lite 20 machines I shall seriously consider OS/2 for one of them. The other one, of course, will run either Linux or Free BSD - Linux seems to have the vote so far. Thankyou everyone. Philip. From chemif at mbox.queen.it Sun Feb 1 19:14:35 1998 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (Riccardo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Computone Port Card Message-ID: <199802020114.CAA07287@mbox.queen.it> At 19:54 29/01/98 -0700, you wrote: >Am I sure they're RJ11, no. They're physically the same jack with six >live wires. But beyond that, how would I know??? Because DEC plugs are different from RJ11: RJ 11= 4 pin; DEC=6 They share the same insertion size, but the DEC have "unplug key" not in the center as other RJ's ASCII-SAMPLE I=========I I=========I I ^^^^ I I ^^^^^^ I I I I I I-----i_i-I I---i_i---I DEC RJ11 >Does Xenix see these when it loads or do I have to tell it? You need its own device driver to let it go. >(Xenix/at 2.2.1) > >Do you if they are compatible/similar to anything that might recognise >the board and work it in today's UNIX world??? They were made for today's Unix world. The problem is to find its own software. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif@mbox.queen.it ? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Feb 2 12:22:04 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Dumpster Safari! (Stil: Off-topic...) Message-ID: <01bd3007$76bddaa0$LocalHost@hotze> > > >I don't know of any *real* military surplus stores around SF anymore; > > >though you'd think there would be some, what with Mare Island Naval > > >ShipYard, Treasure Island, Alameda (Nuclear Wessels!), The Presidio, etc. I know. The Nuclear Wessels were hard to find. Actually, back to the off-topic topic, there *might* be another wave of stuff, depending on how many new gadgets various govenrment branches can make, and what we end up doing with Iraq. (Albright's coming here tommorow.) > > >There are a few electronics surplus stores around, especially down in the > > >(silicon) valley. Wha? (That seems strange to me) > As far as military surplus electronics goes, the end-all and be-all will > always be Fair Radio Sales of Lima, OH. They're even on the web now: > http://alpha.wcoil.com/~fairadio/ > >Yeah, but they're still a rip-off. Their prices were high in the >late 70's when I used to get their catalog, and they're high now. Of course they are. I mean, as has been pointed out, they can make a profit out of it. And, people GIVE them the money. I'm betting that many of the people buying the stuff haven't even heard of Hamfests. Also, on Classifieds 2000, they've got UNREASONABLE prices on classics under "Old Computers." I mean, I got a II+ form Jeff Kaneko for $10, and I saw several advertised, as "Real Rare Classics" for 3 digit figures. And, if people can make money that way.... From photze at batelco.com.bh Mon Feb 2 12:27:36 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Development, round II Message-ID: <01bd3008$3c595140$LocalHost@hotze> Actually, I think that OS/2 prices'll drop soon. As for Linux, there are several "minimal distrobutions" avaible. One is called "Mini-Linux" which includes X-Windows, several games, a word processor, etc. as well as full Linux support, and runs under MS-DOS FAT 16 or FAT 32, as well as OS/2's system, no repartitioning necessary. It also is in 4 .zip files, each under 1.44MB for diskettes. Another is called "Monkey", which includes Navigator, X-Windows, all kinds of stuff, and once again, runs without a partition. Each take up no more than 30MB. I haven't gotten either working. If anyone can help me.... anyway, they're both first class operating systems. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Monday, February 02, 1998 8:43 PM Subject: Re[2]: Development, round II >> > >BTW What is Warp? Is it the OS/2 windowing system? If so, why would I >> > >want to use it at all, let alone on a 286? ;-) >> > >> > Warp is OS/2v3. You couldn't use it on a 286, but if you had, say, a >> > 486/33 -- do pardon me for mentioning a nine-year-old part -- it would >> > begin to be worth playing with. My copy of Warp is still very much to >> > hand, and I think anyone who can scrounge up an appropriate computer should >> > run it (for a while) if they have the opportunity, because it's a real >> > education. >> >> Runs just peachy on my old 386/25. Faster than Windows 3.1 did, not >> that that's a compliment. I will admit that I prefer it, though of >> course all of my high-end machines run Linux. > >I seem to be reading a lot of good things about OS/2 here apart from the >price. Since it looks as though I may have found a source of decent >hard disk drives for my Compaq LTE Lite 20 machines I shall seriously >consider OS/2 for one of them. The other one, of course, will run >either Linux or Free BSD - Linux seems to have the vote so far. > >Thankyou everyone. > >Philip. > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 2 13:39:04 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3 EPROM Programmer In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980202072545.006dbd40@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980202133904.388fa3b6@intellistar.net> At 07:26 AM 2/2/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 07:07 AM 2/2/98, you wrote: > >> If you run it with no ERPOM burner attached, it will probably give you >>an error message stating that the burner is not attached to port X. That >>should give you a clue. > >It runs fine, it doesn't go out looking for the burner until you tell it to >actually burn something. Does it say anything about what it's looking for or what port it expects to find it on? > > >-John Higginbotham- >-limbo.netpath.net- > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 2 13:41:23 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Fairchild Channel F In-Reply-To: <01bd2fdd$414d1310$1268420c@magnum> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980202134123.38577164@intellistar.net> At 07:19 AM 2/2/98 -0600, you wrote: >Hi, >I found a Channel F on saturday. I'm having some problem with it: >The horizontal lines are dashed. >Could someone point me to a good hardware ref or help me out in troubleshooting it? >Also it doesn't read the carts, I can select the internal game but the carts are not seen. What is a channel F, some kind of game machine like an Atari? There is (was?) a Fairchild game machine in a trift store here. I don't remember the name but I don't think it was channel F. Joe From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 2 12:57:54 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF Message-ID: <199802021857.AA21209@world.std.com> From: Frank McConnell Tim Shoppa wrote: >OK, I'll build a web site this weekend that describes the Kansas-city >and Tarbell standards. Will this be useful? Yes, that would be great. I haven't gotten around to digging through my old Kilobauds yet. Which other formats should I research? I remember CUTS, but someone else mentioned 88-ACR and I'd never heard of that. I'm sure Bell 103 is quite simple. Then there's all the other cassette formats: CBM PET, VIC-20, C-64, Sinclair, etc. >If you wanted to make some digitized fragments available, I'd gladly >make some guesses as to the format. You can still recognize them "by ear"? :-) - John Jefferson Computer Museum From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU Mon Feb 2 13:16:35 1998 From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Fairchild Channel F Message-ID: <01IT3TALW7GI8Y6610@AC.GRIN.EDU> > >I found a Channel F on saturday. I'm having some problem with it: > What is a channel F, some kind of game machine like an Atari? There is > (was?) a Fairchild game machine in a trift store here. I don't remember > the name but I don't think it was channel F. The Fairchild Channel F is an old video games console - I believe it predates the original Atari VCS by a few months. They're regarded as pretty neat finds these days. To the original poster - you may have better luck asking on the classic videogames mailing list (classic-videogames@moose.webworks.ca) or if you have usenet access, on rec.games.video.classic. -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH Wow, this is global. -Mtn Goats From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 2 14:21:17 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF In-Reply-To: <199802021446.AA06752@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980202142117.451f2d80@intellistar.net> Allison, At 09:46 AM 2/2/98 -0500, you wrote: > >< I'd like to get away from having to use a terminal. The only terminal > >The hp thing would not work. Try and scrounge up a vt100 or other more >commonplace terminal vt100, vt220, heath/zenith h19, PC running Procomm >or other term program. I had forgotten that I have a pile of VT 320s, will they work? > >< I'm aware to the addresssing problems. Sounds like you have to > >That's putting it mildly. Some of the CUTS and tarbell format tapes >assumed you were using their monitor programs in rom. If you weren't, >zap, a whole lot of IO code was missing. Sounds like just picking up old software is a waste of time and money. It's to be exactly right for the system that it's going on. > >< I have a NS disk controller. I don't know if it has a IPL or how that > >First you don't have the software manual or the hardware manuals as they >do explain that. The NS* controller has a minimal boot as part of the >hardware. If it's the single density controller it will work with an >8080, however if it's the later double density controller a z80 at 4mhz >is a must. The NS* OS has an area that must be configured to match the >IO in your system if it is not it will boot and hang. As to the disk your >not locked to the sa400 there are hundres of different drives that will >work. Sa400 was 35 tracks 48tpi single sided, any single sided drive >other than a few oddballs will be 48tpi. Most older 360k full or half >height drives will work as well despite being two sided. I wondered about using the drives out of an old Osborne model OCC 1 that I have. > >< This is an 8080 machine. Will it run CPM? I thought that was for Z80s > >Go back and read up on history. CP/M-80 ran on all 8080 systems with You're right. I have manuals for NS* CPM, CPM assembler, CPM interface, etc. I haven't had time to read all this stuff yet. I'm glad you told me that CPM will run on an 8080. I've seen some very old CPM stuff but I didn't think I could use it. But there is a chance. >a miimum of 20k ram starting at 0000h, a floopy disk system and some >kind ot terminal. Actually now that I know what I'm looking for, my NS* CPM manual says 16K of Ram with an origin of 2000 Hex. I have a bunch of NS* manuals, I'd like to find the NS* software that goes with them. BTW the NS* CPM book says that the NS* board is supposed to have a PROM on it that contains the IPL. > >< Yes, I know. Bill Gates first commercial product. > >First commercial hack done using borrowed time on his employers cpu. >Oh, he wan't that good it was Gates and Allen. That's almost always the case, the businessman gets rich and the inventor gets screwed. ie George Westinghouse vs Tesla, Oliver Winchester vs Henry, etc etc. > > >Allison Joe > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 2 14:30:45 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF In-Reply-To: <199802021630.IAA01086@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <199802021446.AA06752@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980202143045.451f8d56@intellistar.net> At 08:30 AM 2/2/98 -0800, you wrote: >allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: >> < I'd like to get away from having to use a terminal. The only terminal >> > > >> The hp thing would not work. Try and scrounge up a vt100 or other more >> commonplace terminal vt100, vt220, heath/zenith h19, PC running Procomm >> or other term program. > >Remember complaints about programmers thinking "all the world's a >VAX"? Now it's time to work on the ones who think "all the world's a >VT100." > >I used to use an HP2645 as a terminal on a Compupro CP/M system, so >am sure it can be done. But it definitely depends on the expectations >of the software running on the computer. If it isn't assuming >anything more capable than a Teletype, things will be fine. If your >BIOS or other terminal I/O support wants the terminal to do ^S/^Q flow >control it will be disappointed (264xs don't, 262xs and later can be >configured to do so but don't by default). If your applications >expect the terminal to act like a VT100 by way of responding to VT100 >or ANSI escape sequences (i.e. suffering from "all the world's a >VT100" disease) then the easiest thing to do is to get a VT100-alike >as Allison suggests. > >All that said, if you want help getting the HP terminal working feel >free to ask. If you'd sooner use a terminal emulator on some other >computer, that's OK too and probably more functional. > >-Frank McConnell Thanks Frank. I have two HP 2626s coming. I'd like give them a try just for kicks. I understand that they'll support up to four sessions simultanously. Seems stange to think of running the Altair via something like that. I do have some junk VT-320s that I had forgotten about. I'll see if one of them works in the mean time. Joe From dlw at neosoft.com Mon Feb 2 07:33:54 1998 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 1 and 4 questions In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980202134123.38577164@intellistar.net> References: <01bd2fdd$414d1310$1268420c@magnum> Message-ID: <199802021933.NAA13756@mailbox.neosoft.com> I've picked up a TRS-80 Model 1 with cpu, monitor, expansion interface and 2 80-track and 1 40-track drives. I've put the monitor and cpu together and it runs fine in that mode. As is usual though, I don't have any of the hardware manuals for it and I'm unsure of all the connectors on the expansion interface. There are lots of edge connectors around it. Does anyone know what each of these are? Also, how to connect the cpu to the EI? I know where the ribbon cable connects between the two but are there any othere cables that need to be hooked up? There seem to be several others coming out of the EI. Also, I picked up a TRS-80 Model 4, again with out manuals or software. I have some software for the model 1 but can someone send me LDOS or other OS for the Model 4? Thanks. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 2 13:42:45 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: rescue old cassette data Message-ID: <199802021942.AA04968@world.std.com> Could I attach two PC motherboards (ISA? PS/2? PCI? EISA? NuBUS? Others?) together via a ribbon cable by the bus connectors and then transfer data among them, of course having written the approporiate drivers? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at wco.com Mon Feb 2 14:07:55 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Computone Port Card In-Reply-To: <199802020114.CAA07287@mbox.queen.it> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Riccardo wrote: > >Am I sure they're RJ11, no. They're physically the same jack with six > >live wires. But beyond that, how would I know??? > > Because DEC plugs are different from RJ11: > > RJ 11= 4 pin; DEC=6 > > They share the same insertion size, but the DEC have "unplug key" not in the > center > as other RJ's > > ASCII-SAMPLE I=========I I=========I > I ^^^^ I I ^^^^^^ I > I I I I > I-----i_i-I I---i_i---I > > DEC RJ11 There is also a 6-conductor plug in the same form factor as RJ-11 and RJ-14 but I don't know it's designation. I see this used sometimes for keyboard connectors on old terminals. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From cfandt at servtech.com Mon Feb 2 14:01:48 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: 9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts In-Reply-To: References: <9800138847.AA884719411@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199802022008.PAA05653@cyber2.servtech.com> At 13:15 13-01-98 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: >> Me too! But I think a 4381, say or even a 9370, would be easier to work >> on. > >Getting a 9370 should not be a problem - they are dogs that really were >not sucessful. I have seen quite a few in the scrap yards (none suitable >for taking, however). > I'll agree it's no problem. I got the old 9370 from my company setting at home. Paid an official $1 to act as a transfer of ownership. It's just barely a classic now. Obsolete as heck -not too long after we paid $200k+ for it in '86/'87. Lot of Tylenol used to sooth aching back muscles when I dragged it home piece-by-piece. (Should have seen the wife look at me...) It's a dog, but nevertheless, something important in the line of S/370 lineage which I literally rescued from the dumpster. Notably, it is said to be the first actual production unit sold. Don't exactly recall complete serial number, but it probably is first since it is something like xxx0001. Will get back to the list later with SN, etc. if anybody interested in confirming this. I need OS books (VSE, I think) and help in bringing her completely up. Xerox, I believe, kept the OS manuals since they did all the software maintenace under contract. IBM did hardware maintenance, of course. We used the Xerox Business Management System (XBMS) product to run our company. Have virtually all other hardware books and most periferal books safely at home. Heard that AIX could run on the 9370 under (I think) VM or something. Any AIX and VM OS's around that I could scrounge for this iron?? Have tried to bring it up at home but, apparently, lack of certain periferals it expects to see hung off the terminal ports causes the IPL to quit before OS completely loads. Need a guru or present-day user to help figure this out. Any of you folks willing to help me with this project later in the year??? Wife and I just bought another house and will not be settled until summertime or later. I'm making provisions during my rewiring of the house to include a 30A double-pole breaker since the 9370 takes 230V, single phase. Will duct the air coming out of the CPU to heat the house instead of using the furnace (just kidding, but there's quite a few BTUs dumped outta the thing and could keep the house above freezing in the winter at least.) Will tell the list anything more on this machine if any interest. Regards, Chris -- -- ======================================================= Christian Fandt Phone: +716-488-1722 -Home 111 Harding Avenue +716-661-1832 -Office Jamestown, New York Fax: +716-661-1888 -Office fax 14701-4746 USA email: cfandt@servtech.com From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 2 14:36:49 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF Message-ID: <199802022036.AA27866@world.std.com> < I had forgotten that I have a pile of VT 320s, will they work? ANY vtXXX. A VT320 is ok too. It only has to be RS232 or 20ms interface and not blockmode. Most of the latter terminals only do rs232/rs423 and 20ma was TTY or DECwriters. < Sounds like just picking up old software is a waste of time and money. Message-ID: <199802022103.NAA09401@daemonweed.reanimators.org> allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: > Gee Frank vt100 was not the only thing in the list. Granted, on re-reading it (and thinking a bit) you did mention an H19 and that is not a VT100-compatible or superset. But what really got my attention was the statement that the HP terminals won't work. They work just fine, providing you've got the straps set right. And while you can set the straps so the terminal starts in block mode I can't recall that being done ever in the last 20 years save by accident (typically user getting into config menus and whacking buttons not knowing how to get back out, getting frustrated, calling me to come out and reset the configuration). And what was I really reacting to? Well, yeah, this is one of my hot buttons from way back, and I apologize if I came across too strong. > A terminal emulator on a PC was suggested as if you posted here it's a > fair likelyhood you have a PC. I'd have suggested a MAC and term emulator > but I don't know that space. And as I said that's probably more functional. Quite frankly that's one of the reasons I carry an HP palmtop and keep a couple of the older HP Portable Pluses around: the former makes a tolerable LCD VT100-alike and the latter do good VT100 and HP emulation (with Reflection in ROM). -Frank McConnell From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 2 16:20:13 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks In-Reply-To: <19980202194705.20585.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980202162013.42d7b1d8@intellistar.net> It would be a LOT easier to connect them via a null-modem or just use LapLink or something similar (Fast Lynx is my preference). Joe At 11:47 AM 2/2/98 PST, you wrote: >Could I attach two PC motherboards (ISA? PS/2? PCI? EISA? NuBUS? >Others?) together via a ribbon cable by the bus connectors and then >transfer data among them, of course having written the approporiate >drivers? > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > From donm at cts.com Mon Feb 2 15:29:14 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980202142117.451f2d80@intellistar.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Joe wrote: > Allison, > > At 09:46 AM 2/2/98 -0500, you wrote: > > > >< I'd like to get away from having to use a terminal. The only terminal > > > > > >The hp thing would not work. Try and scrounge up a vt100 or other more > >commonplace terminal vt100, vt220, heath/zenith h19, PC running Procomm > >or other term program. > > I had forgotten that I have a pile of VT 320s, will they work? > > > >< I'm aware to the addresssing problems. Sounds like you have to > > > > > >That's putting it mildly. Some of the CUTS and tarbell format tapes > >assumed you were using their monitor programs in rom. If you weren't, > >zap, a whole lot of IO code was missing. > > Sounds like just picking up old software is a waste of time and money. > It's to be exactly right for the system that it's going on. > > > > >< I have a NS disk controller. I don't know if it has a IPL or how that > > > > > > > > >First you don't have the software manual or the hardware manuals as they > >do explain that. The NS* controller has a minimal boot as part of the > >hardware. If it's the single density controller it will work with an > >8080, however if it's the later double density controller a z80 at 4mhz > >is a must. The NS* OS has an area that must be configured to match the > >IO in your system if it is not it will boot and hang. As to the disk your > >not locked to the sa400 there are hundres of different drives that will > >work. Sa400 was 35 tracks 48tpi single sided, any single sided drive > >other than a few oddballs will be 48tpi. Most older 360k full or half > >height drives will work as well despite being two sided. > > I wondered about using the drives out of an old Osborne model OCC 1 that > I have. Definitely NO!!! They are non-standard drives as far as electrical connections are concerned. For one thing, power comes in via the ribbon cable. - don > > > >< This is an 8080 machine. Will it run CPM? I thought that was for Z80s > > > >Go back and read up on history. CP/M-80 ran on all 8080 systems with > > You're right. I have manuals for NS* CPM, CPM assembler, CPM > interface, etc. I haven't had time to read all this stuff yet. I'm glad > you told me that CPM will run on an 8080. I've seen some very old CPM > stuff but I didn't think I could use it. But there is a chance. > > >a miimum of 20k ram starting at 0000h, a floopy disk system and some > >kind ot terminal. > > Actually now that I know what I'm looking for, my NS* CPM manual says > 16K of Ram with an origin of 2000 Hex. I have a bunch of NS* manuals, I'd > like to find the NS* software that goes with them. BTW the NS* CPM book > says that the NS* board is supposed to have a PROM on it that contains the > IPL. > > > >< Yes, I know. Bill Gates first commercial product. > > > >First commercial hack done using borrowed time on his employers cpu. > >Oh, he wan't that good it was Gates and Allen. > > That's almost always the case, the businessman gets rich and the > inventor gets screwed. ie George Westinghouse vs Tesla, Oliver Winchester > vs Henry, etc etc. > > > > > >Allison > > Joe > > > > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 2 16:30:10 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF In-Reply-To: <199802022036.AA27866@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980202163010.38579ae8@intellistar.net> At 03:36 PM 2/2/98 -0500, you wrote: > > >< I wondered about using the drives out of an old Osborne model OCC 1 th > >They may work muost just pull the 360k drives from an XT. Aren't SA 400's single density? XT drives are Double Density. Yes, they'll probably work but the media wouldn't be interchangable. > > > >It was never a question. I've been running CPM for 21 years and also >have a NS* horizon thats now 20 years old. Do you have the old NS* software that will run on the Alrair? > >< Actually now that I know what I'm looking for, my NS* CPM manual says ><16K of Ram with an origin of 2000 Hex. I have a bunch of NS* manuals, I > >V2.x and later it had to be 20k so that is v1.4 (likely from lifeboat >associates). Yeap. V1.41 > > From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 2 15:42:53 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks Message-ID: <199802022142.AA05823@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Joe wrote: > At 03:36 PM 2/2/98 -0500, you wrote: > > > > > >< I wondered about using the drives out of an old Osborne model OCC 1 th > > > > >They may work muost just pull the 360k drives from an XT. > > Aren't SA 400's single density? XT drives are Double Density. Yes, > they'll probably work but the media wouldn't be interchangable. Drives themselves do not know double from single density. That is a controller function. (Now if you were talking about high density vs single or double density, that is a different story. - don > > > >It was never a question. I've been running CPM for 21 years and also > >have a NS* horizon thats now 20 years old. > > Do you have the old NS* software that will run on the Alrair? > > > >< Actually now that I know what I'm looking for, my NS* CPM manual says > ><16K of Ram with an origin of 2000 Hex. I have a bunch of NS* manuals, I > > > >V2.x and later it had to be 20k so that is v1.4 (likely from lifeboat > >associates). > > Yeap. V1.41 > > > > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Feb 2 15:58:57 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980202165633.0070e19c@netpath.net> An even better stupid bus trick would be to connect all those bus types together, and have any card on any bus recognized by any computer. (But don't look at me, I'm just an idea man!) At 04:20 PM 2/2/98, you wrote: >It would be a LOT easier to connect them via a null-modem or just use >LapLink or something similar (Fast Lynx is my preference). > > Joe > > >At 11:47 AM 2/2/98 PST, you wrote: >>Could I attach two PC motherboards (ISA? PS/2? PCI? EISA? NuBUS? >>Others?) together via a ribbon cable by the bus connectors and then >>transfer data among them, of course having written the approporiate >>drivers? >> >>______________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >> > -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Feb 2 15:58:55 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: GRiDCase 3 EPROM Programmer Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980202165413.0070c130@netpath.net> At 01:39 PM 2/2/98, you wrote: > Does it say anything about what it's looking for or what port it expects >to find it on? Well, there's only one 25-pin RS232 port on the GRiD, the other serial port is taken up by a 1200 baud modem (state of the art in 1985). I'm gonna try to find a cheap one at the next hamfest to tinker with it. Who knows? Maybe it'll work on the first try. (yeah, right) -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 2 16:05:37 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF/building s100 systems Message-ID: <199802022205.AA27045@world.std.com> <>They may work muost just pull the 360k drives from an XT. < < Aren't SA 400's single density? XT drives are Double Density. Yes, If anyone's desperate for an AT&T 6300, I saw one for $30. Dunno if it works, or if it's complete, but it's there. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Feb 2 16:13:00 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: TI 99/4A Exp. Box Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980202113934.093faa20@ricochet.net> Last week (while running around trying do recover from a disk crash) I picked up a TI 99/4a Expansion Box. Has a couple of cards and a (loose) disk drive, but to be honest, I haven't even had a chance to take it out of my girlfriend's trunk (too much sh*t going down lately). Anything interesting that might be in there? Did I do good at $15 (with some elec. screwdriver bits thrown in)? Any info is appreciated! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Feb 2 16:13:04 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Coleco Adam pricing Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980202121153.6dd7070e@ricochet.net> At 01:25 PM 1/30/98 -0800, you wrote: >No way! Maybe $50 at the top end, but $75 is way too much. These are not [...] >someone was trying to sell one at a swap meet? What would you expect to >pay for an old-assed, obsolete computer with no current support that some >guy had lying on the ground in a parking lot? For a Coleco Adam, I'd say >that number is between $25 - $30. Well, certainly, one can always hope to find a deal. I recently paid $750 for a non-running, 1959 Land Rover with no rear wheels and last registered in 1988. The seller told me that the next day someone showed up at his door with $2000 in cash. So, yes, if you want to wait 'til you find one at a flea market, then you should be able to get one for $25-30. (Heck, I've seen 'em (missed out on 'em) for free!) But, if you want one, and you know of one for sale, with some extra parts, I don't think $75 is an unreasonable asking price. Not everyone will pay it, of course; many will wait for the flea market, but there will be those who would just as soon pay a little more to have it now. For comparison purposes, I bought my main Land Rover ("Indy") 8 years ago for $10K. It's also a '59. (Though in better shape, a long-wheelbase model, and had a few extras.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Feb 2 16:13:08 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Interesting Find Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980202132512.093fb782@ricochet.net> At 08:14 PM 1/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >(Sharp PC-7100) > >> printer (I've only got one) that attaches to the back for portability. > >Didn't the IBM Portable (or convertible...whatever) do that? I seem to recall that the convertible (the laptop) had a printer available that attached to the rear, although iirc, right side up and ready to print. (It connected directly through an expansion port on the back of the computer.) The Sharp PC-7100's printer tips up* to attach for portability; to use it you have to detach it, set it down, and hook up a standard printer cable. *Tips up: take your standard mx-80 or what-have-you and grab the rear corners. Lift, rotating along the front bottom edge, and stand it on the front side. Now put your lunchbox in front of it. (Well, maybe Andre the Giant's lunchbox.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Feb 2 16:13:12 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Apple ][+ OS Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980202135659.6dd79a98@ricochet.net> At 07:26 AM 1/31/98 +0300, you wrote: >Actually, I was wondering what the heck Microsloth was thinking when they >made it 8 characters. And, the fact that in the next 5 FULL RELEASES If I'm not mistaken, the 8.3 convention comes from (at least) CP/M. Possibly from some other OpSys before that as well. When you've got 16K of memory, you probably don't want to waste 30 bytes when 8 will do just as well. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Feb 2 16:48:16 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks Message-ID: <19980202224818.29529.qmail@hotmail.com> From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Feb 2 17:35:04 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF In-Reply-To: Joe's message of Mon, 02 Feb 1998 14:30:45 References: <199802021446.AA06752@world.std.com> <3.0.1.16.19980202143045.451f8d56@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199802022335.PAA14096@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Joe wrote: > Thanks Frank. I have two HP 2626s coming. I'd like give them a try just > for kicks. I understand that they'll support up to four sessions > simultanously. Seems stange to think of running the Altair via something > like that. 2626A or 2626W? The latter were intended for use with a word-processing product for the HP3000, called HPWORD. But that's another story, and as terminals they don't behave much different from each other. It's been a while since I did anything with them but I do remember setting one up to do the multi-session thing just to see how it worked. Conceptually it goes something like this: the terminal can have up to four workspaces, where each workspace has a chunk of the terminal's display buffer memory. You can then split the display into two or four windows (tiles) into the workspaces and associate devices with the workspaces (don't remember the details of this). But you only have two datacomm ports, so I'm not really sure how you can manage four sessions. Oh, how well did it work? I seem to remember thinking that it was cumbersome to use, difficult to switch between workspaces and to resize them as you were going. But I knew some other people who used this to move small chunks of text between two connected host computers, so maybe it was just something that you could get used to after a while. > I do have some junk VT-320s that I had forgotten about. I'll see if one > of them works in the mean time. Should be OK too, even if you end up working with software that expects a VT100. But I bet the Portable Pluses are easier to move! -Frank McConnell From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Mon Feb 2 16:46:32 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: TI 99/4A Exp. Box In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980202113934.093faa20@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <199802022308.RAA05387@onyx.southwind.net> Uncle: Considering the rarity of this item, I'd say you made out like a bandit. Not too many of these were sold as it cost alot more than the computer itself! Jeff > Last week (while running around trying do recover from a disk crash) I > picked up a TI 99/4a Expansion Box. Has a couple of cards and a (loose) > disk drive, but to be honest, I haven't even had a chance to take it out of > my girlfriend's trunk (too much sh*t going down lately). > > Anything interesting that might be in there? Did I do good at $15 (with > some elec. screwdriver bits thrown in)? Any info is appreciated! > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ > > From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Feb 2 18:09:51 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:46 2005 Subject: Info wanted (lots) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980202155938.2a37ad26@ricochet.net> I've started scanning photos of my collection, and want to build the web pages for each machine. Unfortunately, I don't know everything about all of them; so I'm asking for help. Here are the machines I've scanned so far: Altima 2 Apple Macintosh Portable Atari Portfolio Data General One Epson HX-20 Laptop Grid GridCase3 Hewlett-Packard Vectra LS/12 IBM PC Radio NEC PC8201A NEC PC8401A "Starlet" Radio Shack Model 100. I'm looking for any info, specs, anecdotes, whatever you might know of regarding these machines. Specifically, the specs I want to list (and I'm open for suggestions on other info) include: {mfr} Manufacturer {location} Mfr's Location {model} Model Number {processor} CPU used {opsys} Operating System(s) {bits-int} bits, internal to CPU (ex: 8088 = 16b internal) {bits-data} bits, external to cpu (ex: 8088 = 8b databus) {ram-min} Minimum RAM {ram-max} Maximum RAM (per Mfr) {rom} Amount of ROM {input} Type of input devices {display} Display size/type {stor-cas} Cassette Storage {stor-fdd} Floppy Drives {stor-hdd} Hard Drive {expansion} Expansion Capabilities {intro} Year introduced {discon} Year discontinued {cost} Intro price {size} Physical Size {weight} Weight {power-volt} Power Supply Voltage {power-conn} PS Type of connector {power-polar} PS connector polarity {notes} Other info If you know of any online resources, please forward the URL's as well. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Feb 2 18:15:24 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Future Services & Events from the Vintage Technology Cooperative In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980202181524.006b81bc@pop3.concentric.net> Great ideas I like them all, if you need some help let me know by private e-mail. John At 06:36 PM 1/31/98 -0800, you wrote: > >I just thought I'd give yous guys a sneak peek of some of the things I am >working on... > >The Vintage Computer Festival v2.0 - the continuation of the legacy! ;) >This year's show will be bigger and better than the first. More vendors, >a bigger exhibition, more great speakers and workshops, more more more! >Tentatively scheduled for late summer. Keep your eyes open for further >announcements. > >The First Vintage Computer Festival Auction - you won't want to miss this. >There will be a bunch of incredible stuff auctioned off this spring to >help fund VCF 2.0. Check the VCF web page (www.siconic.com/vcf) this May >for details. > >A new & improved VCF web-site. Thanks to TCI's cable modem service, I'll >be hosting my own internet services. Among other things, I will launch a >vintage computer software archive. Online history, trivia, interviews >with industry legends, a comprehensive vintage computer gallery, and a >comprehensive list of links to other vintage computer sites on the web. >This will become the one-stop shop for vintage computing. > >The Vintage Computer Collector & Trader Web BBS. This will be a BBS as >was discussed a couple weeks ago in the discussion. It will provide two >services. First, it will offer free advertising for those wanting to >buy/sell/trade vintage computer hardware, software, literature, etc. >Second, it will provide a registry for those wanting to network with other >collectors around the country. Post a message describing what you want >and how much you're willing to pay. Other collectors around the country >scour their local flea markets, thrift stores and salvage yards looking >for your requests. You work out the final details with each other. >Automatic database management insures that requests stay current. Stale >requests get removed automatically. > >The Vintage Computer Software Archives - the plan is for an FTP site with >all manner of software archives for all platforms: CP/M, DOS, Unix, >microcomputers (Apple, Atari, Commodore, TI, Radio Shack, etc.), >mini-computers (DEC, Data General, Sun, IBM, etc.), mainframes...whatever >is legal to archive and make publicly available will be there. The >archived equivalents of disks, magnetic tapes, paper tapes, punch cards, >whatever, will be made available for download. > >ALL THIS AND SO MUCH MORE! A VERITABLE NERD EXTRAVAGANZA TO SATISFY YOUR >VINTAGE COMPUTER HUNGER! > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > > From danjo at xnet.com Mon Feb 2 18:21:24 1998 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks In-Reply-To: <19980202224818.29529.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > >It would be a LOT easier to connect them via a null-modem or just use > >LapLink or something similar (Fast Lynx is my preference). > > > > Joe > > > >At 11:47 AM 2/2/98 PST, you wrote: > >>Could I attach two PC motherboards (ISA? PS/2? PCI? EISA? NuBUS? > >>Others?) together via a ribbon cable by the bus connectors and then > >>transfer data among them, of course having written the approporiate > >>drivers? > > For one thing, please answer the question without going into philosophy. > The other is that I am looking not to transfer files, etc. but for a > way to have two computers share information a la multiproc. systems. Ah but to answer the question with out philosophy - NO. In reality (with philosophy 8-) Yes! It is called networking 8-) Linux has been used in the Beowolf configuration where (I think) 16?? machines were/are set up for parallel processing. You could net-research this and find a bunch of stuff. I have done it using Perl on two machines, one running a 6532 emulator and the other running a 6502 emulator. BC From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 2 16:14:04 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: TRS-80 Model 1 and 4 questions In-Reply-To: <199802021933.NAA13756@mailbox.neosoft.com> from "David Williams" at Feb 2, 98 01:33:54 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2517 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980202/bdddf197/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Feb 2 18:39:51 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: TI 99/4A Exp. Box In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980202113934.093faa20@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980202183951.006ca5a4@pop3.concentric.net> Price wise you ok, I have some manuals around here somewhere I'll look them up. John At 04:13 PM 2/2/98 -0600, you wrote: >Last week (while running around trying do recover from a disk crash) I >picked up a TI 99/4a Expansion Box. Has a couple of cards and a (loose) >disk drive, but to be honest, I haven't even had a chance to take it out of >my girlfriend's trunk (too much sh*t going down lately). > >Anything interesting that might be in there? Did I do good at $15 (with >some elec. screwdriver bits thrown in)? Any info is appreciated! > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Mon Feb 2 16:44:33 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) In-Reply-To: <9801028864.AA886470134@compsci.powertech.co.uk> from "Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk" at Feb 2, 98 05:33:28 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1038 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980202/7580d155/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Feb 2 18:55:12 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks Message-ID: <19980203005517.12760.qmail@hotmail.com> >Ah but to answer the question with out philosophy - NO. >In reality (with philosophy 8-) Yes! It is called networking 8-) > >Linux has been used in the Beowolf configuration where (I think) >16?? machines were/are set up for parallel processing. You could >net-research this and find a bunch of stuff. > >I have done it using Perl on two machines, one running a 6532 emulator >and the other running a 6502 emulator. > >BC (Sigh!) Well, it seems that I need more explanation. I was wondering if this would be a more resource-conserving way to do it, and technologically easier. I would do this with network cards if I had them. Serial ports might be good, as well as parallel. Is there a way to make the computer do TCP/IP via serial or parallel port? So, could you please tell me, COULD I STICK A RIBBON CABLE INTO TWO DIFFERENT MOTHERBOARDS AND PRETEND THAT THE MBs ARE CARDS OF EACH OTHER? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Feb 2 19:03:13 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks Message-ID: you asked for an straightforward answer? it's NO. In a message dated 98-02-02 17:49:20 EST, you write: << >>Could I attach two PC motherboards (ISA? PS/2? PCI? EISA? NuBUS? >>Others?) together via a ribbon cable by the bus connectors and then >>transfer data among them, of course having written the approporiate >>drivers? >> >>______________________________________________________ >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com For one thing, please answer the question without going into philosophy. The other is that I am looking not to transfer files, etc. but for a way to have two computers share information a la multiproc. systems. >> From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Feb 2 19:00:48 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Interesting Find Message-ID: <68686618.34d66c42@aol.com> In a message dated 98-02-02 17:09:25 EST, you write: << >Didn't the IBM Portable (or convertible...whatever) do that? I seem to recall that the convertible (the laptop) had a printer available that attached to the rear, although iirc, right side up and ready to print. (It connected directly through an expansion port on the back of the computer.) >> uncle is right, the pc convertible has a small printer that connects right to the back of the computer, and other options can plug into it. it can print on thermal paper, and print on regular paper i think too. i found the printer for my convertible at a thrift store for $1. talk about lucky! david From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Feb 2 19:04:19 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: TI 99/4A Exp. Box Message-ID: <3822421b.34d66d16@aol.com> In a message dated 98-02-02 18:38:17 EST, you write: << Uncle: Considering the rarity of this item, I'd say you made out like a bandit. Not too many of these were sold as it cost alot more than the computer itself! Jeff >> i have one also, but the front plastic panel is missing. concerning the disk drive, will an xt type floppy drive work? david From danjo at xnet.com Mon Feb 2 19:53:54 1998 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks In-Reply-To: <19980203005517.12760.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > (Sigh!) Well, it seems that I need more explanation. Always a good place to start - and welcome 8-) > I was wondering if > this would be a more resource-conserving way to do it, and > technologically easier. I would do this with network cards if I had > them. Speed wise this is probably the best - however .... > Serial ports might be good, as well as parallel. Is there a way to > make the computer do TCP/IP via serial or parallel port? This should/could work. Depends upon the OS used. For any decent speed it would have to be multitasking. > So, could you > please tell me, COULD I STICK A RIBBON CABLE INTO TWO DIFFERENT > MOTHERBOARDS AND PRETEND THAT THE MBs ARE CARDS OF EACH OTHER? Ribbon cable from any slot on a PC with an independent clock source to any slot on another PC with another independent clock - NO WAY As stated before - it COULD be done but the cost of the interface cards which would have to arbitrate the timing and access the bus on each computer would FAR exceed the cost of a NIC card. Even with the network card in - you are limited by the OS chosen to run it. In summary Direct - No. Serial using TCP/IP over PPP - Yes. Network - The Best! BC From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 2 20:58:57 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF In-Reply-To: <199802022335.PAA14096@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980202205857.422f5d58@intellistar.net> At 03:35 PM 2/2/98 -0800, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> Thanks Frank. I have two HP 2626s coming. I'd like give them a try just >> for kicks. I understand that they'll support up to four sessions >> simultanously. Seems stange to think of running the Altair via something >> like that. > >2626A or 2626W? The latter were intended for use with a word-processing >product for the HP3000, called HPWORD. But that's another story, and >as terminals they don't behave much different from each other. They're 2626A models. > >It's been a while since I did anything with them but I do remember >setting one up to do the multi-session thing just to see how it >worked. Conceptually it goes something like this: the terminal can >have up to four workspaces, where each workspace has a chunk of the >terminal's display buffer memory. You can then split the display into >two or four windows (tiles) into the workspaces and associate devices >with the workspaces (don't remember the details of this). But you >only have two datacomm ports, so I'm not really sure how you can >manage four sessions. I wondered about that too. Here is what the manual says "The HP 2626A is a multi-workspace, multi-window terminal with dual data communications port capability. These and other capabilities may be dynamically configured as four logically-independent virtual terminals. The terminal handles line lengths up to 160 characters and offers foreign language options and an integral printer option." I wonder what a "virtual terminal" is? > >Oh, how well did it work? I seem to remember thinking that it was >cumbersome to use, difficult to switch between workspaces and to >resize them as you were going. But I knew some other people who used >this to move small chunks of text between two connected host >computers, so maybe it was just something that you could get used to >after a while. Do you remember how they moved text between windows? Is it a cut and paste operation like MS Windows? > >> I do have some junk VT-320s that I had forgotten about. I'll see if one >> of them works in the mean time. > >Should be OK too, even if you end up working with software that expects >a VT100. But I bet the Portable Pluses are easier to move! Yes, but the VT 320 is a LOT easier to read. I had forgotten that I had a terminal program for the Portable Plus, I could use them too. The software isn't looking for a VT terminal, just a plain ASCII terminal. Joe > >-Frank McConnell > From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 2 19:59:12 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks Message-ID: <199802030159.AA29371@world.std.com> FROM: maxskin@hotmail.com; NO!!! YOU CAN NOT. <---- Doing that would have the two opposing CPUs competing without any way to resolve that nondestructively. That last word is important and the logic that drives those busses is strong enough that if one were to assert a logic 1 and the other a logic 0 the result literally would be smoke. Allison From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 2 21:06:26 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Info wanted (lots) In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980202155938.2a37ad26@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980202210626.4247c294@intellistar.net> At 06:09 PM 2/2/98 -0600, you wrote: >I've started scanning photos of my collection, and want to build the web >pages for each machine. Unfortunately, I don't know everything about all >of them; so I'm asking for help. Here are the machines I've scanned so far: > >Altima 2 >Apple Macintosh Portable >Atari Portfolio >Data General One >Epson HX-20 Laptop >Grid GridCase3 >Hewlett-Packard Vectra LS/12 If you can give me the model number, I can probably help you with this one. The number should be a 72xxx number. Joe From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Mon Feb 2 20:11:09 1998 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: RED ALERT! FREE VAX Cluster needs rescue! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980202181109.00e49960@mail.wizards.net> Those of you in or near Milwaukee may want to take note of this... ;-) -=-=- -=-=- >Date: Mon, 2 Feb 1998 15:12:35 -0600 (CST) >From: "HULBERT JOSHUA" >To: port-vax@netbsd.org >Subject: Free VAX Cluster! >Sender: port-vax-owner@NetBSD.ORG >Delivered-To: port-vax@NetBSD.ORG > >Hi, > >To anyone interested, my school is looking to make the old VAX cluster >disappear. It consists of two MV3600's, several racks of RA81/82's, one >MVII, and a TU-something-or-other. I haven't had time to go down and look >at the innards of any of the machines, but I will if anyone expresses an >interest in them. The whole shebang was operational the day they took it >to the basement, so I assume it still is. > >We also have two or three VS3100's, but I'm really not sure what shape >they're in. > >We are located in downtown Milwaukee, WI. The machines would be free for >the taking, or if anyone wants to pay the shipping, we could work >something out. I'd really like to see it all go toward the NetBSD cause, >otherwise they'll be scrapped for the gold :( > >Please get back to me as soon as possible. I'm guessing we have until the >end of the week, at which time the scrap metal man comes. I've had >phantasies about bringing the stuff home, but "home" is actually a dorm >room. Dunno if plugging the 3600's in will actually cause a brownout or >not. Housing wouldn't be pleased, I'm guessing. > >Cheers! > >Joshua Hulbert >Milwaukee School of Engineering >hulbertj@msoe.edu >(414) 287-4827 > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From marvin at rain.org Mon Feb 2 20:14:57 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions (80/10B) References: Message-ID: <34D67DA0.34045095@rain.org> Brett wrote: > On Sat, 31 Jan 1998, Marvin wrote: > > Allison J Parent wrote: > > > 80/ > > > board > > > the 80/10a was a multibus 8080 card. I have a few but they are fried. > > > > When I get crazy I'll fix them. The 80/10 desn't date from '76 though > > > > the '76 is the date intel trademarked the MULTIBUS name. > > > I think I have a hardware manual for this. I am cleaning (again!) and > will - if I find it - put it in my *somebody wants* stack. I got a lot > of manuals from the place I got my MDS-800 - including a preliminary > FPL (floating point package) manaul that is - well - obtuse! Let me > look for a week and I will let you know if I find anything. I would love to get a copy of the schematics. I see a couple of empty sockets on the board, and would love to know what goes in them! From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Mon Feb 2 20:52:47 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Fairchild Channel F Message-ID: <01bd304e$cf282960$8a6b420c@magnum> OK Thanks for the pointers. >To the original poster - you may have better luck asking on the classic >videogames mailing list (classic-videogames@moose.webworks.ca) or if you >have usenet access, on rec.games.video.classic. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Francois Auradon. Visit the SANCTUARY at http://home.att.net/~francois.auradon From spc at armigeron.com Mon Feb 2 20:47:15 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Info wanted (lots) In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980202155938.2a37ad26@ricochet.net> from "Uncle Roger" at Feb 2, 98 06:09:51 pm Message-ID: <199802030247.VAA11533@armigeron.com> (Man, is it weird to be using a 2400 modem to reply to this. "Why are you using a 2400 modem?" you might ask. Good question. Answer: bad weather (rain and lots of it) and crummy phone lines. I felt it was easier to hook up the 2400 than to figure out how to reset my 28.8 not to attempt to connect at 28.8 ... man have I gotten spoiled 8-) It was thus said that the Great Uncle Roger once stated: > > I've started scanning photos of my collection, and want to build the web > pages for each machine. Unfortunately, I don't know everything about all > of them; so I'm asking for help. Here are the machines I've scanned so far: > > Data General One > Hmm, seeing how I have one of these, plus the programmer's manual and some of the add ons. A nice machine and one of the best keyboards ever (IMNSHO) on a portable/laptop. > I'm looking for any info, specs, anecdotes, whatever you might know of > regarding these machines. Specifically, the specs I want to list (and I'm > open for suggestions on other info) include: > {mfr} Data General {location} Mass. if I remember correctly. Or at least their main HQ {model} 2217A {processor} 4Mhz 80C88 {opsys} MS-DOS 2.1, CP/M-86 (version unknown) {bits-int} 16b {bits-data} 8b {ram-min} 128Kb (48Kb reserved for display) {ram-max} 512Kb (internal, 48Kb for display, 464Kb for program/data, external, an additional 364Kb is possible) {rom} 32Kb {input} keyboard, serial port, floppy (2 3.5" internal, external drives possible with expansion port), expansion port (opt) 300b internal modem (opt) {display} 640x256 LCD display, non-back lit (compatible with CGA) {stor-cas} none (or N/A) {stor-fdd} up to 2 internal 3.5", external with expansion port (5.25" available from DG, not sure about 3.5" external) {stor-hdd} none (at least to my knowledge) {expansion} external bus adaptor (external floppy adaptor uses this) {intro} 1984 {discon} unknown {cost} unknown (but I can get the info - it made the cover of Byte in 1984 when introduced) {size} 11.25" x 13.5" x 3" (when folded) {weight} unknown (but it's hefty) {power-volt} 30W +5.8v DC {power-conn} proprietary (unknown) {power-polar} unknown {notes} Two serial ports are built in, the primary is RS-232C/RS-422 and contains modem control lines. The secondary is only RS-232C with no modem control lines (primary use of the secondary port is for serial printers). Both are driven by 82C51 USART controllers and are NOT PC compatible (bummer for an MS-DOS machine). RAM is 64K-bit CMOS static RAM (speed unspecified in the docs I have) and is not preserved when shut down. When all internal memory options have been installed, user has 464Kb to work with. An additional 368Kb (for a total of 832Kb, although MS-DOS would only use 704Kb) can be added via the external IO bus, although I know of no product that does this. The LCD display is both MDA (mono-chrome) and CGA compatible and 48Kb of RAM is set aside for use by the LCD display (including 12Kb for a RAM based font). -spc (What I want to know is if battery packs are still available. I'd like to be able to use this without having to plug it in) From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Feb 2 20:59:24 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980202215533.0070f424@netpath.net> At 08:59 PM 2/2/98 -0500, you wrote: >logic that drives those busses is strong enough that if one were to >assert a logic 1 and the other a logic 0 the result literally would be >smoke. But wouldn't it be fun to watch as a spectator? :) -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From scott at saskatoon.com Mon Feb 2 21:09:56 1998 From: scott at saskatoon.com (Scott Walde) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) In-Reply-To: <9801028864.AA886470134@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > >>Is it some kind of "Super CGA" that wasn't really supported by anyone? > > > > I know some game companies "tweaked" certain memory registers or something > > so that standard CGA could do 320x200x16 colors, but as far as I'm aware, > > I never heard of 320 x 200 x 16 for the CGA - I seem to remember 160 x > 200 x 16 - surely it would not have had the memory for the other? Both the IBM PCjr and the Tandy 1000 line had 320x200x16. If you look at the system requirements of late 80s, early 90s Sierra games you'll find many of them support 'Tandy Graphics'. As a side note... the Tandy 1000 line also supported three-voice digital sound--also stolen from the PCjr. You will also find this supported in those games too. ttfn srw From spc at armigeron.com Mon Feb 2 21:05:17 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks In-Reply-To: <19980203005517.12760.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Feb 2, 98 04:55:12 pm Message-ID: <199802030305.WAA11661@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Max Eskin once stated: > > (Sigh!) Well, it seems that I need more explanation. I was wondering if > this would be a more resource-conserving way to do it, and > technologically easier. I would do this with network cards if I had > them. Serial ports might be good, as well as parallel. Is there a way to > make the computer do TCP/IP via serial or parallel port? Yes. In fact, you can (in theory at least) run TCP/IP over any physical medium (and yes, there are people trying to get TCP/IP running over SCSI as strange as that may seem. RFC2143 anyone?). PPP and SLIP are two methods for sending TCP/IP over a serial line, and I think Linux even supports TCP/IP over a parallel port, but that's non-standard (technically, so is SLIP, but I'm being pedantic now 8-) > So, could you > please tell me, COULD I STICK A RIBBON CABLE INTO TWO DIFFERENT > MOTHERBOARDS AND PRETEND THAT THE MBs ARE CARDS OF EACH OTHER? I'm not a computer engineer, but I would suspect the answers to be: Short answer: no. Long answer: yes, but ... And that "yes, but ..." being that just sticking a ribbon cable between the two mother boards may cause unspecified behavior. Basically, what you're doing (more or less) is taking two single CPU systems and trying to get them to do SMP (symetrical multiprocessing) and without some hardware assistance, the best you can hope for is a hopelessly corrupted (RAM) system and worse, you'll damage the two systems beyond repair. I think someone mentioned that it could be done, but the ribbon cable has to be between two cards (the hardware assistance) that handle the transfers. -spc (ObCC: It may also be that TCP/IP may be overkill for what you want to do (or just too big depending upon the system). You might want to check out ftp://junior.apk.net/pub/users/drushel/twwmca and see what Richard Drushel has done to get his Coleco Adam to network with PCompatibles.) From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Feb 2 21:19:52 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980202221828.0070fb54@netpath.net> At 09:09 PM 2/2/98 -0600, you wrote: >As a side note... the Tandy 1000 line also supported three-voice digital >sound--also stolen from the PCjr. You will also find this supported in >those games too. Yeah, I played quite a few games on my 1000tx with both these features. Sure beat standard CGA and PC speaker! -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From spc at armigeron.com Mon Feb 2 21:14:51 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Pinouts on a DEC VT320 terminal Message-ID: <199802030314.WAA11693@armigeron.com> So I have this DEC VT320 terminal in front of me and it does work (very nicely, if I do say so). But what has me disturbed is the serial output port on this thing - it's the stranges port I've seen. Like a phone jack only not quite. And before I spend something like $50 on a cable, can anyone tell me what the pin outs are? -spc (Oh, and is it RS-232 even?) From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Mon Feb 2 21:37:43 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois Auradon) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Fairchild Channel F Message-ID: <01bd3055$16250440$8a6b420c@magnum> >To the original poster - you may have better luck asking on the classic >videogames mailing list (classic-videogames@moose.webworks.ca) or if you >have usenet access, on rec.games.video.classic. Checked on usenet, now I remember why I didn't go there at first: --I am not interested in Making $$$$$ --I DONT NEED PASSWORD FOR SEX SITES --I have nothing to sell and I don't want to buy anything. I better try the mailing list. -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH Wow, this is global. -Mtn Goats From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Mon Feb 2 21:20:07 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Info wanted (lots) In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980202155938.2a37ad26@ricochet.net> Message-ID: Here's the info, I'm CC'ing this to the list in case anyone else is interested. >Apple Macintosh Portable >{mfr} Apple Computer >{location} Cupertino, CA >{model} I dunno... >{processor} Motorola 68000 @ 16MHz >{opsys} MacOS >{bits-int} 16 >{bits-data} 16 >{ram-min} 1MB >{ram-max} 8MB >{rom} 256K >{input} ADB keyboard & trackball built-in, ADB port for other devices >{display} B&W LCD, later models had backlight >{stor-cas} nope, unless you count SCSI tape backups >{stor-fdd} one 3.5" 1.44MB Apple SuperDrive >{stor-hdd} SCSI >{expansion} SCSI port, two serial ports(modem & printer), stereo 8bit >sound, ADB port >{intro} Sep 1989, backlit version Feb 1991 >{discon} I dunno... >{cost} I dunno... >{size} A bit on the large side, even compared to laptops of th >era. Maybe 1/4 the size of a Compaq Portable. >{weight} I dunno... Probably in the 15-25lbs range. >{power-volt} I dunno... >{power-conn} I dunno... >{power-polar} I dunno... >{notes} Cool machines, I want one! It's just that people want a >lot of money for their old Macs.. They just don't want to let go... I don't have any idea about the other computers. >If you know of any online resources, please forward the URL's as well. Try http://til.info.apple.com/ -JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek From spc at armigeron.com Mon Feb 2 21:23:46 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) In-Reply-To: from "Scott Walde" at Feb 2, 98 09:09:56 pm Message-ID: <199802030323.WAA11750@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Scott Walde once stated: > > On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > > >>Is it some kind of "Super CGA" that wasn't really supported by anyone? > > > > > > I know some game companies "tweaked" certain memory registers or something > > > so that standard CGA could do 320x200x16 colors, but as far as I'm aware, > > > > I never heard of 320 x 200 x 16 for the CGA - I seem to remember 160 x > > 200 x 16 - surely it would not have had the memory for the other? > > Both the IBM PCjr and the Tandy 1000 line had 320x200x16. If you look at > the system requirements of late 80s, early 90s Sierra games you'll find > many of them support 'Tandy Graphics'. When IBM was developing the IBM PCjr, they specifically went to Sierra to have them do a game for the upcoming PCjr. That game was "King's Quest" (of which I do have an original copy of) and that started that particular genre (sp? I don't even know where to begin) of games. It was interesting play that game on a PCjr, in that you could actually watch the scenes being drawn, with objects that could be manipulated suddenly appearing when the scene was finished painting. In fact, there was a keystroke (Alt-P? Alt-Q? Alt-E? It's been awhile) you could hit that would cause the scene drawing routine to slow down enough to see individual pixels being drawn. Quite cool. -spc (Also remembers playing Space Quest on the PCjr) From william at ans.net Mon Feb 2 21:36:47 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: RED ALERT! FREE VAX Cluster needs rescue! In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980202181109.00e49960@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: > >To anyone interested, my school is looking to make the old VAX cluster > >disappear. It consists of two MV3600's, several racks of RA81/82's, one > >MVII, and a TU-something-or-other. I haven't had time to go down and look > >at the innards of any of the machines, but I will if anyone expresses an > >interest in them. The whole shebang was operational the day they took it > >to the basement, so I assume it still is. Hmmm...I used to use one of these 3600s. Slow, but better than the 11/780 they ran until 1992 or so. > >We are located in downtown Milwaukee, WI. The machines would be free for > >the taking, or if anyone wants to pay the shipping, we could work > >something out. I'd really like to see it all go toward the NetBSD cause, > >otherwise they'll be scrapped for the gold :( The school must be changing quite a bit. It used to be a VMS stronghold, but I fear that PeeCees started taking over (they were moving in when I left in 1991). In the past, they kept everything, even way past the stuff was taken out of service - I snagged my old Interdata 14 (retired in the late 1970s, I think, but they kept it around) from them. They also had some first generation Eclipses (with FPS boxes! Want, want, want!), a PDP-11/70 disguised as a Datasystem 570, a cool Computervision CAD system, and even a busted LMI Lisp machine (another want!). My guess is that the stuff is gone now, but if anyone goes, ask! > >Please get back to me as soon as possible. I'm guessing we have until the > >end of the week, at which time the scrap metal man comes. I've had > >phantasies about bringing the stuff home, but "home" is actually a dorm > >room. I had the Interdata in my dorm room. The roommate was not pleased. Upon my graduation and checkout from the dorm, we wheeled the Interdata (minus the panels to save our muscles) out and told the security guard that it was a piece of the elevator and it would not be working anymore. He was not pleased. Come to think of it, I do not think anyone was pleased that I had the thing. William Donzelli william@ans.net From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Feb 2 16:54:50 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Pinouts on a DEC VT320 terminal In-Reply-To: <199802030314.WAA11693@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <199802030348.WAA03605@mail.cgocable.net> > > So I have this DEC VT320 terminal in front of me and it does work (very > nicely, if I do say so). But what has me disturbed is the serial output > port on this thing - it's the stranges port I've seen. Like a phone jack > only not quite. And before I spend something like $50 on a cable, can > anyone tell me what the pin outs are? > > -spc (Oh, and is it RS-232 even?) > Oh yeah, they're RS-232 and it requires MMJ jack type. I hacked up a adapter cable MMJ to standard 25pin d-shell for my VT420 2 yr ago. That VT420 is amber tube and refreshes at 70hz, what a concept! BUT, forgotten where I have that pinout! :( Digital blew that one trying to make $ on those connector conpireicy. (sp?) Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From mallison at konnections.com Mon Feb 2 21:53:06 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Massively Classic System WAS(Re: Stupid bus tricks) References: <3.0.32.19980202165633.0070e19c@netpath.net> Message-ID: <34D694A2.57F1@konnections.com> I think John's on to something here. How about connect together a S-100, EEEI-696, EISA, MCI, PCI, VME and Multibus plane and create a monitor that will allow CPU and memory on each system running concurrently with mix and match boards as you like (or have) running Concurrent CPM? To play PONG on..... -Mike John Higginbotham wrote: > > An even better stupid bus trick would be to connect all those bus types > together, and have any card on any bus recognized by any computer. (But > don't look at me, I'm just an idea man!) > > At 04:20 PM 2/2/98, you wrote: > >It would be a LOT easier to connect them via a null-modem or just use > >LapLink or something similar (Fast Lynx is my preference). > > > > Joe > > > > > >At 11:47 AM 2/2/98 PST, you wrote: > >>Could I attach two PC motherboards (ISA? PS/2? PCI? EISA? NuBUS? > >>Others?) together via a ribbon cable by the bus connectors and then > >>transfer data among them, of course having written the approporiate > >>drivers? > >> > >>______________________________________________________ > >>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >> > > > -John Higginbotham- > -limbo.netpath.net- From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Feb 2 21:49:53 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF In-Reply-To: Joe's message of Mon, 02 Feb 1998 20:58:57 References: <3.0.1.16.19980202205857.422f5d58@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199802030349.TAA21880@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Joe wrote: > I wonder what a "virtual terminal" is? I'm thinking that the "virtual terminals" are the workspaces. > Do you remember how they moved text between windows? Is it a cut and > paste operation like MS Windows? Um, no. As I recall it used the logging function. You set up the "to" device to be a workspace and then turn on log top or log bottom. E.g. if you turned on log bottom, then as each line was received it would be copied (by the terminal) over to the workspace set as "to" device, and if that workspace is attached to the other datacomm port then the line gets sent out that port. So I don't think you can cut-and-paste very easily, but you can set the thing up to do simple data logging. -Frank McConnell From mallison at konnections.com Mon Feb 2 21:56:46 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Apple ][+ OS References: <3.0.16.19980202135659.6dd79a98@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <34D6957E.4B39@konnections.com> Seems to me that the name limitation, as I recall from UNIX has to do with how much space you have for program name, extension, file description, date, and ownership/directory info. When the math is done on what you need, what you have left is 8 & 3, if you want an extension... Could be wrong, though... -Mike Uncle Roger wrote: > > At 07:26 AM 1/31/98 +0300, you wrote: > >Actually, I was wondering what the heck Microsloth was thinking when they > >made it 8 characters. And, the fact that in the next 5 FULL RELEASES > > If I'm not mistaken, the 8.3 convention comes from (at least) CP/M. > Possibly from some other OpSys before that as well. When you've got 16K of > memory, you probably don't want to waste 30 bytes when 8 will do just as well. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > > Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad > roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." > Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates > San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From mallison at konnections.com Mon Feb 2 22:09:03 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks References: Message-ID: <34D6985F.69B7@konnections.com> Brett wrote: > > Linux has been used in the Beowolf configuration where (I think) > 16?? machines were/are set up for parallel processing. > I have done it using Perl on two machines, one running a 6532 emulator > and the other running a 6502 emulator. > > BC Yeah, but can you play PONG on it.... (Sorry, I just couldn't resist...) -Mike From COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU Mon Feb 2 22:10:15 1998 From: COAKLEY at AC.GRIN.EDU (Benjamin M Coakley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Fairchild Channel F Message-ID: <01IT4BXA134Y8Y6ZD9@AC.GRIN.EDU> > Checked on usenet, now I remember why I didn't go there at first: > --I am not interested in Making $$$$$ > --I DONT NEED PASSWORD FOR SEX SITES > --I have nothing to sell and I don't want to buy anything. > I better try the mailing list. The worst part is, rgvc is considered pretty high-signal these days. It's been a bad week, though. BTW, I think I just gave you the list address, rather than the list request address. At least, I got your subscribe message, and I suspect the rest of the list did too. You might want to try classic-videogames-request@moose.webworks.ca for the actual subscribe request. Sorry about that, -- Ben Coakley http://www.math.grin.edu/~coakley coakley@ac.grin.edu Station Manager, KDIC 88.5 FM CBEL: Xavier OH Wow, this is global. -Mtn Goats From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 2 23:10:49 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF In-Reply-To: <199802030349.TAA21880@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980202231049.457f609a@intellistar.net> At 07:49 PM 2/2/98 -0800, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >> I wonder what a "virtual terminal" is? > >I'm thinking that the "virtual terminals" are the workspaces. Doesn't sound very usefull since two of them can't be connected to the ports. > >> Do you remember how they moved text between windows? Is it a cut and >> paste operation like MS Windows? > >Um, no. As I recall it used the logging function. You set up the >"to" device to be a workspace and then turn on log top or log bottom. >E.g. if you turned on log bottom, then as each line was received >it would be copied (by the terminal) over to the workspace set as >"to" device, and if that workspace is attached to the other datacomm port >then the line gets sent out that port. Interesting method of passing data, but doesn't sound very easy to use. For one thing you would have to turn it on BEFORE the data is recieved and displayed. > >So I don't think you can cut-and-paste very easily, but you can set >the thing up to do simple data logging. Yes logging would be easy but selective coping would be a pain! Joe > >-Frank McConnell > From mallison at konnections.com Mon Feb 2 22:14:41 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks References: Message-ID: <34D699B1.2A31@konnections.com> I thought the multiplexed NeXT "Zilla?" used the SCSI ports... You talked about a system where the bus had to be arbitrated, that wouldn't necessarily be needed if you went through SCSI, would it... Love this conversation, but maybe we aren't the best info sources on this.... -Mike Brett wrote: > > On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Max Eskin wrote: > > (Sigh!) Well, it seems that I need more explanation. > > Always a good place to start - and welcome 8-) > > > I was wondering if > > this would be a more resource-conserving way to do it, and > > technologically easier. I would do this with network cards if I had > > them. > > Speed wise this is probably the best - however .... > > > Serial ports might be good, as well as parallel. Is there a way to > > make the computer do TCP/IP via serial or parallel port? > > This should/could work. Depends upon the OS used. For any decent > speed it would have to be multitasking. > > > So, could you > > please tell me, COULD I STICK A RIBBON CABLE INTO TWO DIFFERENT > > MOTHERBOARDS AND PRETEND THAT THE MBs ARE CARDS OF EACH OTHER? > > Ribbon cable from any slot on a PC with an independent clock source to > any slot on another PC with another independent clock - NO WAY > > As stated before - it COULD be done but the cost of the interface cards > which would have to arbitrate the timing and access the bus on each > computer would FAR exceed the cost of a NIC card. Even with the network > card in - you are limited by the OS chosen to run it. > > In summary Direct - No. Serial using TCP/IP over PPP - Yes. > Network - The Best! > > BC From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Feb 2 22:11:36 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Pinouts on a DEC VT320 terminal In-Reply-To: <199802030314.WAA11693@armigeron.com> from "Captain Napalm" at Feb 2, 98 10:14:51 pm Message-ID: <9802030411.AA12834@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2173 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980202/cbba8d0d/attachment.ksh From wpe at interserv.com Mon Feb 2 22:11:50 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: VAXStation 2000 start-up questions References: <199802020330.TAA00503@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <34D69905.E9F50C55@interserv.com> Stretching both brain cells, here, as memory (doesn't usually) serve(s) me, I think just typing a B to the prompt would do it, or B such as B CSA0 ,,, Allison'd probably know better on this... Will Seth J. Morabito wrote: > Hello everyone! > > I have just found myself the proud owner of a VAXStation 2000. > The system came complete with two external RD53 drives, > one TK50-Z tape system, a 19" mono monitor, keyboard, and > mouse. > > Unfortunately, I must plead ignorance about almost all things > VAX-related. I've looked high and low in the FAQs, but can't > find answers to my questions, so please forgive me if my > problem seems somewhat rudimentary or downright stupid. > > The current configuration is this: VAXStation, connected > to one of the two RD53s with the 50-pin SCSI connector, and > the TK50-Z, connected to the VAXStation through Centronics > SCSI. > > I power on the tape first, then the RD53, then the VAX. > > When I power up the system, the monitor comes to life, and > displays the following: > > KA410-A V1.2 > F...E...D...C...B...A...9...8...7...6...5...4_..3_..2_..1?.. > > ? 7 0090 7330.7331 > ?? 1 00C0 0000.7004 > > >>>_ > > That's where it stops. The "Hold Screen", "Lock", "Compose", > and "Wait" lights on the keyboard are lit, and don't go off. > I cannot type at the >>>_ prompt. It just sits and mocks > me :) > > I have absolutely no documentation on this system whatsoever. > All I know is that the disks contain a VMS build, but I don't > even know what version. > > Could some kind soul with access to better documentation explain > what the diagnostic boot-up codes mean, in this case? > > I think I will bite the bullet and order the DEC service > manuals. Though it seems somewhat silly to pay $100 for > manuals for a $50 system :) In the meantime, help from anyone > here would be greatly appreciated. > > -Seth From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Feb 2 22:18:29 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Massively Classic System WAS(Re: Stupid bus tricks) Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980202231808.007073e0@netpath.net> At 08:53 PM 2/2/98 -0700, you wrote: >I think John's on to something here. How about connect together a >S-100, EEEI-696, EISA, MCI, PCI, VME and Multibus plane and create a >monitor that will allow CPU and memory on each system running >concurrently with mix and match boards as you like (or have) running >Concurrent CPM? > >To play PONG on..... Pong? Pong? At least have it run Spacewar, for pete's sake! -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From mallison at konnections.com Mon Feb 2 22:27:02 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) References: Message-ID: <34D69C96.6E8F@konnections.com> I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks like EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton Utes and it was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear characters. I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it took two coupled long cards to run the video... -Mike Scott Walde wrote: > > On Mon, 2 Feb 1998 Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > > >>Is it some kind of "Super CGA" that wasn't really supported by anyone? > > > > > > I know some game companies "tweaked" certain memory registers or something > > > so that standard CGA could do 320x200x16 colors, but as far as I'm aware, > > > > I never heard of 320 x 200 x 16 for the CGA - I seem to remember 160 x > > 200 x 16 - surely it would not have had the memory for the other? > > Both the IBM PCjr and the Tandy 1000 line had 320x200x16. If you look at > the system requirements of late 80s, early 90s Sierra games you'll find > many of them support 'Tandy Graphics'. > > As a side note... the Tandy 1000 line also supported three-voice digital > sound--also stolen from the PCjr. You will also find this supported in > those games too. > > ttfn > srw From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 2 23:06:35 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) Message-ID: <199802030506.AA09508@world.std.com> >>Is it some kind of "Super CGA" that wasn't really supported by anyo > > > > I know some game companies "tweaked" certain memory registers or so > > so that standard CGA could do 320x200x16 colors, but as far as I'm > > I never heard of 320 x 200 x 16 for the CGA - I seem to remember 160 > 200 x 16 - surely it would not have had the memory for the other? I have an ATI Graphics Solution board that does: 40x25 character 80x25 character 320x200 color graphics 640x200 color/graphics 600/200 b/w modes plantronics color/graphics ati 640x200x16 color graphics 640x200x4 color 320x200x16 color 132x25 color text mode IBM mono (MDA) Hercules graphics mode 132x25 mono 132x44 mono Off hand the 6845 could likely be programmed for other more odd modes. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Mon Feb 2 23:06:28 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks Message-ID: <199802030506.AA09414@world.std.com> such Message-ID: >Could I attach two PC motherboards (ISA? PS/2? PCI? EISA? NuBUS? >Others?) together via a ribbon cable by the bus connectors and then >transfer data among them, of course having written the approporiate >drivers? No. It's not PS/2, it's MicroChannel Architecture. NuBus isn't PC, it's Mac. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Feb 3 00:05:48 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: C-64c probs Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980202164924.37771daa@ricochet.net> At 11:29 AM 2/1/98 -0600, you wrote: >I'll try it next time I get the system out to play with it. We've got an 19 >month old running around now, and something like the Commodore with it's >multiple cables and pieces is a prime target for her. At 19 months, she's definitely ready to start using the computer! (Be it classic or new.) Lemme know if you need software recommendations. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Tue Feb 3 00:05:52 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Kids and classics (was: C-64c probs) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980202165609.2adf20bc@ricochet.net> Since there seem to be a few folks who want to save their classics from their kids, let me stray off-topic long enough to say my girlfriend is an educator (best in the business, honest) so if any one wants suggestions for kids software, let me know and I'll pass on her recommendations. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From foxnhare at goldrush.com Tue Feb 3 00:06:19 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: C-64c probs References: <199802020802.AAA21155@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34D6B3DB.6B48@goldrush.com> From: Fritz Chwolka Subject: Re: C-64c probs >John Higginbotham wrote: >> >[snip!] >> What's going on here? Drive misalign? How do I realign? Bad drive? Bad cable? >> >> Anyone have one or two extra 1541 floppy drives they want to sell? -- >I have my indos not by hand but I nelieve you must type >type LOAD "$",8,1 > ^^^^ NOOOOOOO!!!! That will make the drive do a 'non-relocating load' with the directory starting at memory location 1025 ($0401) which is screen memory on the 64. The load address of $0401 is remenants of 4040/2031 code left in for use by people with PETs whose BASIC starts at $0401 and cannot do any sort of relocating load. use just: LOAD"$",8 Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From foxnhare at goldrush.com Tue Feb 3 00:16:33 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: C-64c probs References: <199802020802.AAA21155@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34D6B641.4E05@goldrush.com> From: John Higginbotham Subject: Re: C-64c probs >>Assuming the drive's device number has not been changed from eight, then the >>correct command is LOAD "*", 8, 1 > >What's the differenct between "$" and "*"? I've seen both used in this >context. LOAD"*",8,1 loads the first file off of a disk to it's recorded start address in memory (This is usually the way you boot commercial software disks, rarely anything with various programs on it.) Loading the directory is done by loading "$", you can add file spec wildcards such as "$pac*" (load the first program with a filename starting with 'pac') > How does one change a device number? I'm not Commodore expert. The >only other Commodore product I've had is a C-16, and that seems like ages ago. > Via software is pretty complicated, the hardware method requires you to open the case of the 1541 and look for two 'jumper pads' on the circut board and cutting one or both 'jumper' connections to change the number. >>changed to 9, 10, or 11, then you will get a "device not found" error. Try >>the other numbers in place of 8 until you find the correct one. If the >>cable is bad or not connected properly, you should get a "device not >>present" error. > >I'll give it a try. How long should I wait for a device not present >message? Should be an immediate response. > It's just sitting there looking for the floppy. I've got both the >C-64 manual and the 1541 manual, but can't see anything that'll help me. > They are OK, but many people don't take them seriously... >>PS: I've got all kinds of 1541's if you really want/need one. > >I'd like to get a second drive if this one is good, or two drives if this >one is bad, but I think the problem is just me sitting in front of it, and >not the drive. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Tue Feb 3 00:27:20 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:47 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks In-Reply-To: <34D699B1.2A31@konnections.com> References: Message-ID: >I thought the multiplexed NeXT "Zilla?" used the SCSI ports... > >You talked about a system where the bus had to be arbitrated, that >wouldn't necessarily be needed if you went through SCSI, would it... This sounds like one of the versions of the "Siamese System" for the Amiga. Before switching to Ethernet in the current version it was possible to hook the Amiga and a Win95 PC together using their respective SCSI buses. You could then display the Amiga's video on the PC, and transfer files between the two. Kinda cool, but I think it required special hardware. The current version using ethernet sounds better, but I've been seeing to many tales of woes in the newsgroups for me to try. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From sethm at loomcom.com Tue Feb 3 00:28:15 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: TK50 tape drive and Linux (PC)? Message-ID: <199802030628.WAA00497@loomcom.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1719 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980202/6dad1f63/attachment.ksh From mallison at konnections.com Tue Feb 3 00:35:28 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: System Info&config Archives Message-ID: <34D6BAB0.69C6@konnections.com> One place to find system configuration and info files: http://www.simtel.net/pub/simtelnet/msdos/sysinfo/ -Mike From mallison at konnections.com Tue Feb 3 01:09:52 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: CPM86, GEMDOS, GEM Files - Whole free systems Message-ID: <34D6C2C0.5220@konnections.com> I'm sure everyone knows about this, but for the few, such as I: For a bunch of CPM systems, 68k, 8080, Z80, Z180, CPM-86, MPM, checkout: http://cdl.uta.edu/cpm/download.html They have it all including CPM-86 OS + C compilers, Basic Compilers, Fortran and Pascal. Plus the same for CPM Z80 & 8080 system: Plus, the Digital Research Library with GEM stuff for Atari and DOS, including GEM Desktop, Draw, Write, and GEM Publisher You could have a good 8088 or 8080/Z80 or Atari system, for just a little time. -Mike From spc at armigeron.com Tue Feb 3 01:37:22 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: Pinouts on a DEC VT320 terminal In-Reply-To: <9802030411.AA12834@alph02.triumf.ca> from "Tim Shoppa" at Feb 2, 98 08:11:36 pm Message-ID: <199802030737.CAA12763@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Tim Shoppa once stated: > > > So I have this DEC VT320 terminal in front of me and it does work (very > > nicely, if I do say so). But what has me disturbed is the serial output > > port on this thing - it's the stranges port I've seen. Like a phone jack > > only not quite. And before I spend something like $50 on a cable, can > > anyone tell me what the pin outs are? > > It's a DEC modified modular jack (MMJ). Connectors are widely available > from any good electronic store (if you don't have one in your neighborhood, > I recommend Digi-Key.) Pinout is as follows: [ pinouts snipped ] Thanks. I was able to make the cable (and in fact, I'm using the terminal and my 28.8kpbs modem as I write) and it works fine. -spc (Cool! Now only if the Wyse terminal worked 8-) From spc at armigeron.com Tue Feb 3 01:39:52 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: VAXStation 2000 start-up questions In-Reply-To: <199802030506.AA09310@world.std.com> from "Allison J Parent" at Feb 3, 98 00:06:21 am Message-ID: <199802030739.CAA12781@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Allison J Parent once stated: > > such > > You have three bootable devices... > > B DUA0 *RD5x in the box, never seen one external but it can be done. > B MUA0 or 7 *tk50 tape I forget the device number as it's slow. > B XQA0 *boot via eithernet. It was possible to run them diskless. > > B does the default device first (dua0) then tape then eithernet. Does this also apply to the uVAX 2000 (or are they in fact the same thing?) Also, do you have the specs about the boot protocol over the eithernet? -spc (I suppose I could check my uVAX 2000 tech manual ... ) From kevan at heydon.org Tue Feb 3 03:44:05 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: EEPROM programmers again Message-ID: <199802030944.JAA13868@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> Hi, Recently I picked up an EEPROM programmer (An Elan Universe 1000 to be precise) and I want to use it read and save the contents of the EEPROMs in my old computers. There is a small LCD display on the programmer from which I can select various output formats, and I was wondering which ones are the best / most popular? The format are: Tek Hex ASCII Hex Space Binary Motorola S Rec Intel Std & 8086 Elan Fuse Map Jedec Mos Tech Texas Tags Also any specifications for the above formats would be much appreciated. Again through the LCD configuration options it seems that the programmer can be remotely controlled using the following formats: Chessels Philips PMDS Intel MDS Elan Easycom I have searched the Web but found nothing on these protocols. Can any body help me? Many thanks. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Feb 3 04:21:19 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980203051840.0071aaf4@netpath.net> At 06:57 PM 2/2/98 -0800, you wrote: >It's not PS/2, it's MicroChannel Architecture. NuBus isn't PC, it's Mac. And PCI can also Mac. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From bmpete at swbell.net Tue Feb 3 05:50:18 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: TI 99/4A Exp. Box In-Reply-To: <3822421b.34d66d16@aol.com> References: <3822421b.34d66d16@aol.com> Message-ID: <34d8fddc.21595246@mail.swbell.net> I have numerous TI-99/4A expansion boxes and other components including modules and disks. Email me for info/help. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From adavie at mad.scientist.com Tue Feb 3 05:45:43 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: greetings / my collection Message-ID: <01bd3099$4243a1a0$27f438cb@nostromo> Hello to the list members. I've just joined you. Based in Australia, I have Altair 8800b (don't ask the price!) Kaypro II (found today - $30) Exidy Sorcerer x 2 ($25) Ohio Scientific Challenger 1P board (free) Dick Smith Wizzard (aka. CreatiVision) ($10) Sinclair ZX80 ($1) Sinclair ZX81 ($1) Sinclair Spectrum (trade for a slide rule) Atari 800 + 810 (well my Mum has it, but I'm working on that) Although not a big collector of the older computers, I am in general an avid collector of smaller computing devices such as slide rules and calculators. I'd like to announce my web-sites on these subjects... Museum of Soviet Calculators http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html Slide Rule Trading Post http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/ My intent in joining, however, is to share my resources (boxes of software for Exidy Sorcerer - but I can't load any of it - no working drive!) and perhaps utilise the brain pool of this list to help me get my Altair up and running, and also enable my Kaypro II to boot to anything but I also have manuals for about 10 different Kaypro packages - email me for list. In any case, I was pleased to accidentally stumble on this list, and fervently hope it is still an active one. I do welcome private communications, but would generally prefer discussion on the list for the benefit of all. Cheers Andrew Davie From manney at nwohio.com Mon Feb 2 18:50:17 1998 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: Stuff, while we're at it... Message-ID: <199802031344.FAA25322@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Thanks. I'm in Ohio, 44857 As I understand it, you have a complete system, with a (fuzzy?) monitor? Is there a HDD, or is that the bernoulli? Is there software? Thanks, manney@nwohio.com ---------- > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: Re: Stuff, while we're at it... > Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 9:51 PM > > Manny: > > Sorry I haven't responded, I've been in Vegas since friday am. > > The MAC stuff is yours, if you desire. The only exception is the 5mb > bernouli which was spoken for (but not yet taken) if that works out it's > gone. I do have another 20MB bernouli, but I need the enclosure, you > can have the drive though, if you like. > > Lemme know you're address and I'll check the shipping and send you back > a total for your decision. > > Thanks, > > Mike Allison > > PG Manney wrote: > > > > I'd be interested in the Mac stuff > > > > manney@nwohio.com From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Feb 3 09:29:40 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: VAXStation 2000 start-up questions Message-ID: <199802031529.AA26543@world.std.com> <> You have three bootable devices... <> <> B DUA0 *RD5x in the box, never seen one external but it can be don <> B MUA0 or 7 *tk50 tape I forget the device number as it's slow. <> B XQA0 *boot via eithernet. It was possible to run them diskless <> <> B does the default device first (dua0) then tape then eithernet. < < Does this also apply to the uVAX 2000 (or are they in fact the same > At 13:15 13-01-98 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: > >>> Me too! But I think a 4381, say or even a 9370, would be easier to work >>> on. >> >>Getting a 9370 should not be a problem - they are dogs that really were >>not sucessful. I have seen quite a few in the scrap yards (none suitable >>for taking, however). > > I'll agree it's no problem. I got the old 9370 from my company setting at > home. Paid an official $1 to act as a transfer of ownership. It's just > barely a classic now. Obsolete as heck -not too long after we paid $200k+ > for it in '86/'87. Lot of Tylenol used to sooth aching back muscles when I > dragged it home piece-by-piece. (Should have seen the wife look at me...) Strange how people in different (geographical) areas find different machines. In the [year + 2 vacations] I worked for IBM, I never saw a 9370 at all. It was released at about that time - I grabbed some marketing leaflets which I believe I still have - and I thought it looked an interesting system, but I never saw one :-( > It's a dog, but nevertheless, something important in the line of S/370 > lineage which I literally rescued from the dumpster. > > Notably, it is said to be the first actual production unit sold. Don't > exactly recall complete serial number, but it probably is first since it is > something like xxx0001. Will get back to the list later with SN, etc. if > anybody interested in confirming this. Fun if true. Do find out! > I need OS books (VSE, I think) and help in bringing her completely up. > Xerox, I believe, kept the OS manuals since they did all the software > maintenace under contract. IBM did hardware maintenance, of course. We used > the Xerox Business Management System (XBMS) product to run our company. Have > virtually all other hardware books and most periferal books safely at home. > > Heard that AIX could run on the 9370 under (I think) VM or something. Any > AIX and VM OS's around that I could scrounge for this iron?? I'll have a look in my marketing bumf and see what IBM were offering. Alas, I have little of a technical nature. I'd think a 9370 ought to run Phoenix/MVT at least. Do any of our Cambridge (UK) contingent want to have a go? > Have tried to bring it up at home but, apparently, lack of certain > periferals it expects to see hung off the terminal ports causes the IPL to > quit before OS completely loads. Need a guru or present-day user to help > figure this out. You know, that sort of thing _might_ be in the marketing stuff (as in, a complete system need consist only of...) since the main selling point was the small size and no need of special machine room. > Any of you folks willing to help me with this project later in the year??? Yes, but not physically, since I am unlikely to get to travel to the States again in the near future! That said, I do have a voucher to spend with Continental Airlines sometime... > Wife and I just bought another house and will not be settled until > summertime or later. I'm making provisions during my rewiring of the house > to include a 30A double-pole breaker since the 9370 takes 230V, single > phase. Will duct the air coming out of the CPU to heat the house instead of > using the furnace (just kidding, but there's quite a few BTUs dumped outta > the thing and could keep the house above freezing in the winter at least.) 30A at 230V is around 7kW - running continuously, that could keep a small house quite warm. (Typical electrical domestic heating installation in UK, four storage heaters rated at between 2kW and 4kW each, heat up for 7 hours at night, release heat slowly during day - equivalent of 3 to 4 kW continuously) Will tell the list anything more on this machine if any interest. Yes please. Philip. From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Feb 3 09:30:44 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: RED ALERT! FREE VAX Cluster needs rescue! Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980203093044.00be26f0@pc> >To anyone interested, my school is looking to make the old VAX cluster >disappear. It consists of two MV3600's, several racks of RA81/82's, one >MVII, and a TU-something-or-other. How large is all this equipment, in square and cubic feet? What sort of power does it take? Anything particularly interesting or novel about this system? MicroVAX III circa 1987, KA650 processor, QBUS, ~32 meg RAM, RA-82s are ~600 meg, VMS 5.x? Roughly 2.8 VUP? Main unit, rack-mount half-height? Maybe a TU-81+, half-height rack tape? - John Jefferson Computer Museum From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Tue Feb 3 08:39:50 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) In-Reply-To: <34D69C96.6E8F@konnections.com> Message-ID: <199802031455.IAA16829@onyx.southwind.net> You sure this isn't PGA? > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks like > EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton Utes and it > was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear characters. > > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it took two > coupled long cards to run the video... > > -Mike > From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Feb 3 09:44:47 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) Message-ID: <01bd30ba$a7c99c20$7660bcc1@hotze> Isn't PGA Pin-Grid-Array? (It's probably wrong, but hay....) -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Kaneko To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 6:39 PM Subject: Re: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) You sure this isn't PGA? > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks like > EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton Utes and it > was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear characters. > > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it took two > coupled long cards to run the video... > > -Mike > From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Feb 3 09:52:25 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: new additions: //c lcd display Message-ID: <571484c9.34d73d3c@aol.com> i decided to make a run for old computer stuff and i'm glad i did. i managed to find the apple //c lcd display in its original box. used, but in good shape. price? $3.18 no printed material came with it. i also saw a complete tandy 1000, a never used colecovision with steering wheel, imagewriter 1, apple //c, //c 9 inch monitor, apple 300/1200 modem in box, //c mouse never used, and //c disk drive and some apple laserwriter carts. i may go back for some of the other goodies. i might consider trades for the lcd. david From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Feb 3 09:55:57 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) In-Reply-To: <01bd30ba$a7c99c20$7660bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980203105557.007ea100@netpath.net> At 06:44 PM 2/3/98 +0300, you wrote: >Isn't PGA Pin-Grid-Array? (It's probably wrong, but hay....) That too, but PGA was also a graphics standard like CGA/EGA/MCGA/XGA/VGA, IIRC. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Tue Feb 3 10:13:59 1998 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: VAXStation 2000 start-up questions Message-ID: <01IT4Z0XYLSY9I8GT7@cc.usu.edu> > such > > You have three bootable devices... > > B DUA0 *RD5x in the box, never seen one external but it can be done. > B MUA0 or 7 *tk50 tape I forget the device number as it's slow. > B XQA0 *boot via eithernet. It was possible to run them diskless. > > B does the default device first (dua0) then tape then eithernet. That's B ESA0 for the Ethernet. But if he can't type, he can't enter any of those commands. I don't know what the various failure modes of an LK201 look like (none of mine have failed), so I can't say offhand what's wrong with the keyboard. I would first try swapping it (since I have plenty of them lying around) and, failing that, going for a serial console. Also, the ? on 7 indicates some sort of problem with the disk controller. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Tue Feb 3 10:17:03 1998 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: VAXStation 2000 start-up questions Message-ID: <01IT4Z6EXSUG9I8GT7@cc.usu.edu> >It was thus said that the Great Allison J Parent once stated: >> >> such >> > > >> You have three bootable devices... >> >> B DUA0 *RD5x in the box, never seen one external but it can be done. >> B MUA0 or 7 *tk50 tape I forget the device number as it's slow. >> B XQA0 *boot via eithernet. It was possible to run them diskless. >> >> B does the default device first (dua0) then tape then eithernet. > > Does this also apply to the uVAX 2000 (or are they in fact the same >thing?) Also, do you have the specs about the boot protocol over the >eithernet? It does, assuming you use the right device name for the Ethernet. There is a MOP demon for Linux that some NetBSD folks have used to boot a 2000 diskless; you could look into that for info about the boot protocol. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From aaron at orr.wfi-inc.com Tue Feb 3 10:19:40 1998 From: aaron at orr.wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: RED ALERT! FREE VAX Cluster needs rescue! Message-ID: <199802031619.IAA24421@orr.wfi-inc.com> I asked about the mass of the thing, just to dream about shipping it. 6 boxes, 250 kg's or so apiece (over a ton). It's a fairly large system, eh? Aaron From CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Tue Feb 3 07:40:40 1998 Return-Path: Received: from lists2.u.washington.edu (lists2.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.1]) by orr.wfi-inc.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA24217 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:40:39 -0800 Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) by lists2.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with SMTP id HAA04106; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:34:38 -0800 Received: from mxu4.u.washington.edu (mxu4.u.washington.edu [140.142.33.8]) by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with ESMTP id HAA34798 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:31:13 -0800 Received: from threedee.com ([208.18.183.65]) by mxu4.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with ESMTP id HAA25999 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 07:31:01 -0800 Received: from winnie (winnie [192.198.5.13]) by threedee.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA00712; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:29:27 -0600 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19980203093044.00be26f0@pc> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 1998 09:30:44 -0600 Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu Precedence: bulk From: John Foust To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Subject: Re: RED ALERT! FREE VAX Cluster needs rescue! Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Cc: hulbertj@msoe.edu X-Sender: jfoust@pc (Unverified) X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Status: R >To anyone interested, my school is looking to make the old VAX cluster >disappear. It consists of two MV3600's, several racks of RA81/82's, one >MVII, and a TU-something-or-other. How large is all this equipment, in square and cubic feet? What sort of power does it take? Anything particularly interesting or novel about this system? MicroVAX III circa 1987, KA650 processor, QBUS, ~32 meg RAM, RA-82s are ~600 meg, VMS 5.x? Roughly 2.8 VUP? Main unit, rack-mount half-height? Maybe a TU-81+, half-height rack tape? - John Jefferson Computer Museum From engine at chac.org Tue Feb 3 10:16:05 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: greetings In-Reply-To: <01bd3099$4243a1a0$27f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980203081605.01072eb0@pop.batnet.com> At 22:45 2/3/98 +1100, the eminent slipsticker Andrew Davie wrote: >I was pleased to accidentally stumble on this list, and >fervently hope it is still an active one..... Active (choke)(splutter) how about 4,600 posts in the last six months?! __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Tue Feb 3 10:19:46 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) In-Reply-To: <01bd30ba$a7c99c20$7660bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980203081946.010c6420@pop.batnet.com> At 18:44 2/3/98 +0300, you wrote: >Isn't PGA Pin-Grid-Array? (It's probably wrong, but hay....) Na-na-na. Professional Graphics Adapter, IBM's "other" attempt (besides 8514/a and XGA) at expensive design-grade video. It never went anywhere, much. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Feb 3 10:29:14 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) Message-ID: <01bd30c0$ddd94620$bf62bcc1@hotze> But, of course, MY PGA did. I've got a question I've been dying to ask: Why the heck do (S)VGA montiors have 3 sets of pins, and "older" monitors only have 2? I mean, the increased performance, for sure, but so many of the pins are "not used", or used for an odd purpose. Why not say put in 2 differnet plugs of 2 rows each, so that I could use my *surely* functional SVGA when testing out old computers? Thanks, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Kip Crosby To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 7:25 PM Subject: Re: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) >At 18:44 2/3/98 +0300, you wrote: >>Isn't PGA Pin-Grid-Array? (It's probably wrong, but hay....) > >Na-na-na. Professional Graphics Adapter, IBM's "other" attempt (besides >8514/a and XGA) at expensive design-grade video. It never went anywhere, >much. > >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > > From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Tue Feb 3 10:06:49 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) In-Reply-To: <01bd30ba$a7c99c20$7660bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <199802031627.KAA21839@onyx.southwind.net> It seems like it means "Professional Graphics Adapter" Hmmm. -Jeff > Isn't PGA Pin-Grid-Array? (It's probably wrong, but hay....) > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Kaneko > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 6:39 PM > Subject: Re: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) > > > > You sure this isn't PGA? > > > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks like > > EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton Utes and it > > was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear characters. > > > > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it took two > > coupled long cards to run the video... > > > > -Mike > > > > > From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Tue Feb 3 11:08:50 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: PGA (RE: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB207BC7F08@red-65-msg.dns.microsoft.com> PGA is a three-card sandwich, not two... > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff Kaneko [SMTP:Jeff.Kaneko@ifrsys.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 8:07 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) > > > It seems like it means "Professional Graphics Adapter" > > Hmmm. > > -Jeff > > > > Isn't PGA Pin-Grid-Array? (It's probably wrong, but hay....) > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Jeff Kaneko > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > > Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 6:39 PM > > Subject: Re: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) > > > > > > > > You sure this isn't PGA? > > > > > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks like > > > EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton Utes and it > > > was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear characters. > > > > > > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it took > two > > > coupled long cards to run the video... > > > > > > -Mike > > > > > > > > > From higginbo at netpath.net Tue Feb 3 11:17:12 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) In-Reply-To: <01bd30c0$ddd94620$bf62bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980203121712.007e1360@netpath.net> At 07:29 PM 2/3/98 +0300, you wrote: >But, of course, MY PGA did. I've got a question I've been dying to ask: Why >the heck do (S)VGA montiors have 3 sets of pins, and "older" monitors only >have 2? I mean, the increased performance, for sure, but so many of the >pins are "not used", or used for an odd purpose. Why not say put in 2 >differnet plugs of 2 rows each, so that I could use my *surely* functional >SVGA when testing out old computers? Think about it: If they didn't change the plug, system manufacturers would be sitting on top of a bunch of unsold monitors, because the public would be buying new systems and keeping their old monitors, just wanting a little speed increase. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Tue Feb 3 11:22:55 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) Message-ID: <9801038865.AA886555813@compsci.powertech.co.uk> I forget who wrote half of this, but here goes: > Isn't PGA Pin-Grid-Array? (It's probably wrong, but hay....) [...] > You sure this isn't PGA? PGA = Professional Graphics Adapter, as Kip Crosby so rightly pointed out. When I was at IBM this was called PGC (C = Controller). FWIW, the PGC was three circuit boards bolted together, the two outer ones going into adjacent slots of an XT motherboard. It had an 8088 as graphics coprocessor, and did 640 x 480 x loads of colours. But back to the original question, > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks like > EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton Utes and it > was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear characters. > > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it took two > coupled long cards to run the video... > > -Mike No, it isn't PGA. (Although most of the chips on the cards are likely to be PGAs, in IBM custom metal cans, as I recall...) The IBM 5272, the 3270PC display, was a very nice monitor. I don't know the pixel resolution, but I'd guess at 800 x 400. Unfortunately, AFAIK, it only did 8 colours. The 3270PC display card did TEXT MODES ONLY - it was aimed at emulating the 3279 terminal. You could buy two add-on cards for it that went in the slots either side in the motherboard. 1. The PS card. This provided emulation of the Programmed Symbols option on the 3279. Very nice graphics, but only as a terminal, not as a PC (although presumably you could have written PC drivers for it...) 2. The APA card. This provided support of the All Points Addressable modes of the CGA. These CGA modes were displayed in the top lefthand corner of the screen. And the only 8 colours reduced the capability somewhat as well. It looked very good, but AFAIK IBM never supported it properly. Pity. Later IBM released the 5370 series machines. These included the 3270PC/G and the 3270PC/GX. These had full graphics capability, the G on a monitor the same size as the 5272 (but with I think more colours); the GX had a graphics coprocessor (5378) in a box the size of a PS/2 model 30 and a 19 inch monitor (5379) with lots of pixels (1280 x 1024 I think, but could have been only 1024 x 768) and I don't know how many colours (but might have been 64). But your description of the 3270PC sounds like you've got only one of PS and APA, alas. Hope this helps Philip. From engine at chac.org Tue Feb 3 11:24:14 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: PGA (RE: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) In-Reply-To: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB207BC7F08@red-65-msg.dns.mi crosoft.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980203092414.010609e0@pop.batnet.com> At 09:08 2/3/98 -0800, Kai Kaltenbach wrote: >PGA is a three-card sandwich, not two... Mmm, no wonder it was so pricey. How many slots did it take? __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Tue Feb 3 11:29:04 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) In-Reply-To: <01bd30c0$ddd94620$bf62bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980203092904.01060500@pop.batnet.com> At 19:29 2/3/98 +0300, you wrote: >But, of course, MY PGA did. I've got a question I've been dying to ask: Why >the heck do (S)VGA montiors have 3 sets of pins, and "older" monitors only >have 2? A burning question, to be sure, because the little pins in those 3-row D-connectors are SO fragile. I've never understood why, if the SVGA connector had to be 15 pins (which it doesn't anyway,) it couldn't have been the longer, 2-row, 15-pin D-connector that's used for joysticks. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From william at ans.net Tue Feb 3 11:30:41 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: 9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts In-Reply-To: <9801038865.AA886548793@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: > 30A at 230V is around 7kW - running continuously, that could keep a > small house quite warm. (Typical electrical domestic heating > installation in UK, four storage heaters rated at between 2kW and 4kW > each, heat up for 7 hours at night, release heat slowly during day - > equivalent of 3 to 4 kW continuously) Just because the sticker says 30 amps does not mean it will draw that much! In general, those ratings are worst case (a fully blown system), and includes some safety factor (as well as some surge). For example, the ex-NFSnet RS/6000s are rated for 240V @ 20 amps, but in their current state (loaded with memory, one DASD shelf), they only suck about two amps! Do not be suprised if that 9370 only sucks a few amps. William Donzelli william@ans.net From djenner at halcyon.com Tue Feb 3 11:54:19 1998 From: djenner at halcyon.com (David C. Jenner) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) References: <9801038865.AA886555813@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <34D759CB.136A6C94@halcyon.com> I have an IBM "Professional Graphics Display" monitor. Unfortunately, it is in storage and I can't get at the exact model number right now. The question is: will it work with 640x480x16 VGA? I once plugged it into such an adapter and it looked like it worked except for a wrap-around at one side. Was this just evidence of a needed adjustment, or is it an incompatibility? The monitor was a freebee, so I was just hoping I could use it for simple VGA. Dave Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > I forget who wrote half of this, but here goes: > > > Isn't PGA Pin-Grid-Array? (It's probably wrong, but hay....) > > [...] > > > You sure this isn't PGA? > > PGA = Professional Graphics Adapter, as Kip Crosby so rightly pointed > out. When I was at IBM this was called PGC (C = Controller). > > FWIW, the PGC was three circuit boards bolted together, the two outer > ones going into adjacent slots of an XT motherboard. It had an 8088 as > graphics coprocessor, and did 640 x 480 x loads of colours. > > But back to the original question, > > > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks like > > EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton Utes and it > > was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear characters. > > > > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it took two > > coupled long cards to run the video... > > > > -Mike > > No, it isn't PGA. (Although most of the chips on the cards are likely > to be PGAs, in IBM custom metal cans, as I recall...) > > The IBM 5272, the 3270PC display, was a very nice monitor. I don't know > the pixel resolution, but I'd guess at 800 x 400. Unfortunately, AFAIK, > it only did 8 colours. > > The 3270PC display card did TEXT MODES ONLY - it was aimed at emulating > the 3279 terminal. You could buy two add-on cards for it that went in > the slots either side in the motherboard. > > 1. The PS card. This provided emulation of the Programmed Symbols > option on the 3279. Very nice graphics, but only as a terminal, not as > a PC (although presumably you could have written PC drivers for it...) > > 2. The APA card. This provided support of the All Points Addressable > modes of the CGA. These CGA modes were displayed in the top lefthand > corner of the screen. And the only 8 colours reduced the capability > somewhat as well. > > It looked very good, but AFAIK IBM never supported it properly. Pity. > > Later IBM released the 5370 series machines. These included the > 3270PC/G and the 3270PC/GX. These had full graphics capability, the G > on a monitor the same size as the 5272 (but with I think more colours); > the GX had a graphics coprocessor (5378) in a box the size of a PS/2 > model 30 and a 19 inch monitor (5379) with lots of pixels (1280 x 1024 I > think, but could have been only 1024 x 768) and I don't know how many > colours (but might have been 64). > > But your description of the 3270PC sounds like you've got only one of PS > and APA, alas. > > Hope this helps > > Philip. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: vcard.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 330 bytes Desc: Card for David C. Jenner Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980203/720ee7a8/vcard.vcf From bwit at pobox.com Tue Feb 3 12:29:05 1998 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: Visual Basic for DOS? In-Reply-To: <34D519D1.E6ECF0A8@halcyon.com> References: <19980202003417.19055.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980203122905.006a9820@swbell.net> There actually was a Visual Basic for DOS product. It was very much like Visual Basic V1 execpt that everything was in character mode. It supported menus, listboxes, comboboxes, and like like without graphics. Bob At 04:56 PM 2/1/98 -0800, you wrote: >Max, > >There was a Microsoft QuickBasic for DOS. I believe it got up to at >least version 4.0. I used it long ago on a project or two. > >You probably can find a cheap (~$20?) copy of this at some used software >store, like Half Price Software. > >Dave > >Max Eskin wrote: >> >> It is my understanding that there was once a (Microsoft?) Visual Basic >> for DOS. Was it like VB for Windows, and was it any better than QBasic? >> If someone has a copy, could they let me (ahem) borrow it? >> >> ______________________________________________________ >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com >Attachment Converted: "c:\program files\eudora\attach\vcard5.vcf" > From bmpete at swbell.net Tue Feb 3 12:49:55 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: new additions: //c lcd display In-Reply-To: <571484c9.34d73d3c@aol.com> References: <571484c9.34d73d3c@aol.com> Message-ID: <34d7660e.1699049@mail.swbell.net> On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:52:25 EST, you said: >imagewriter 1 Is this the C-Itoh Prowriter? If so, I'm interested in it! 1: Is it available? 2: Where is it? 3: What is its' condition? (Cosmetical and mechanical) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From cfandt at servtech.com Tue Feb 3 15:19:01 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: 9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts In-Reply-To: References: <9801038865.AA886548793@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199802031926.OAA11420@cyber2.servtech.com> At 12:30 03-02-98 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: > >Just because the sticker says 30 amps does not mean it will draw that >much! In general, those ratings are worst case (a fully blown system), and >includes some safety factor (as well as some surge). Oh I already knew that, William. A 30A breaker works out fine to handle the six 9332 DASD units (IBM's accronym for these type of hard disks for some of you other observers), 9345 tape drive, rack power controllers and the 9370-60 CPU. > >For example, the ex-NFSnet RS/6000s are rated for 240V @ 20 amps, but in >their current state (loaded with memory, one DASD shelf), they only suck >about two amps! > >Do not be suprised if that 9370 only sucks a few amps. Can't recall exactly, but total draw was about 11 to 12 amps or so when I checked last fall before I put the system to bed while we were shopping for a house. 30A dual-pole breaker was on hand and turns out to handle surge okay. I have done industrial wiring at work as part of my engineering responsibilities so have experience with handling stuff like this. Still dumped alotta heat! :-) We got cheap electricity in this town. $0.036 per KWH vs. about $0.08 or more per KWH outside of the area. Can't wait to work more with the system later this year if the wife has no additional remodeling in the new house for me to do :-( -- -- ======================================================= Christian Fandt Phone: +716-488-1722 -Home 111 Harding Avenue +716-661-1832 -Office Jamestown, New York Fax: +716-661-1888 -Office fax 14701-4746 USA email: cfandt@servtech.com From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Tue Feb 3 08:44:58 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980203092904.01060500@pop.batnet.com> References: <01bd30c0$ddd94620$bf62bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <199802031938.OAA24608@mail.cgocable.net> > At 19:29 2/3/98 +0300, you wrote: > >But, of course, MY PGA did. I've got a question I've been dying to ask: Why > >the heck do (S)VGA montiors have 3 sets of pins, and "older" monitors only > >have 2? > > A burning question, to be sure, because the little pins in those 3-row > D-connectors are SO fragile. I've never understood why, if the SVGA > connector had to be 15 pins (which it doesn't anyway,) it couldn't have > been the longer, 2-row, 15-pin D-connector that's used for joysticks. > Tidbit: Three signals/ground shield pair for RGB (6 pins), 2 pins for H and V sync, 3 pins for INFO status telling what kind of monitor attached to video card and one diagnostic pin (when you pull the video plug off, you get flickering white raster, which is diagnostic). Also few more grounding pins and 2 is left blank. That is original IBM's design. Now in newer PnP monitors and newer video adapters uses 4 pins plus normal 9 pins so win95sux can talk to monitor for info and autoconfigure for that monitor after the fact. But those new PnP monitors will work with older cards (no PnP). So we do need that fragile 15 pin connectors. But with care, you can have one that last for years from plugging/unplugging. The mistake was idiotic users forcing all ham-fist it in too hard in bit wrong way or backwards. Simple solution: look at both shells to see right way around and that famale one is really VGA connector, fit straight in and push in, if you feel something hard and connector is not yet all the way in yet, STOoOPP! Jason D. > __________________________________________ > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html > Computer History Association of California > > > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Tue Feb 3 14:00:54 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: Visual Basic for DOS? Message-ID: <19980203200054.24389.qmail@hotmail.com> Someone said they would post it at an FTP site,and I lost the email address; would the person email me? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com Tue Feb 3 14:56:44 1998 From: MPritchard at EnsembleStudios.com (Matt Pritchard) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: Visual Basic for DOS? Message-ID: And it sucked!!!!!!!!!! As for QuickBasic for DOS, it ended with version 4.5... sort of. There was a professional version, called PDS, which ended at version 7.1 -Matt Pritchard Graphics Engine and Optimization Specialist > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Withers [SMTP:bwit@pobox.com] > Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 12:29 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Visual Basic for DOS? > > > There actually was a Visual Basic for DOS product. It was very much > like > Visual Basic V1 execpt that everything was in character mode. It > supported > menus, listboxes, comboboxes, and like like without graphics. > > Bob > > At 04:56 PM 2/1/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Max, > > > >There was a Microsoft QuickBasic for DOS. I believe it got up to at > >least version 4.0. I used it long ago on a project or two. > > > >You probably can find a cheap (~$20?) copy of this at some used > software > >store, like Half Price Software. > > > >Dave > > > >Max Eskin wrote: > >> > >> It is my understanding that there was once a (Microsoft?) Visual > Basic > >> for DOS. Was it like VB for Windows, and was it any better than > QBasic? > >> If someone has a copy, could they let me (ahem) borrow it? > >> > >> ______________________________________________________ > >> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >Attachment Converted: "c:\program files\eudora\attach\vcard5.vcf" > > From rector at usa.net Tue Feb 3 15:49:20 1998 From: rector at usa.net (Daniel E. Rector) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: PS/1 software Message-ID: <34D790E0.31CE@usa.net> I recently came into possession of a PS/1 model 2011. (I believe that this was one of the initial PS/1 models). It has a '286 processor and 30 meg harddrive. Unfortunately, the harddrive seems to be DOA (1701 error on boot up). The system will boot up to a 4 quadrant screen from the rom. I have downloaded the programs from IBM to switch the boot sequence to the floppy, but I cannot access any of the software that came with the system (MS Works et al.). The docs seem to imply that I can create a diskette version to run the software, which would be great if I had the original diskettes. So I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that I could get a copy of the diskettes that came with this system? Thanks, -- Dan Rector email: rector@usa.net From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Tue Feb 3 16:54:43 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: PS/1 software Message-ID: <420ea26f.34d7a035@aol.com> ah yes, the first ps1 series to come out. i presume its a 2011-c34 or m01. you might want to try this trick: with the machine off, press and hold down both mouse buttons, then power on. when it posts, let the buttons go. that will force an autoconfig, and make it boot from rom again. that trick works on all ps1 models. you shoulda made your disk backups when it was running, but too late now. you can still order the core software from ibm. i think it's ~$45. ring the helpcentre at 800.772.2227 david In a message dated 98-02-03 16:55:21 EST, you write: << I recently came into possession of a PS/1 model 2011. (I believe that this was one of the initial PS/1 models). It has a '286 processor and 30 meg harddrive. Unfortunately, the harddrive seems to be DOA (1701 error on boot up). The system will boot up to a 4 quadrant screen from the rom. I have downloaded the programs from IBM to switch the boot sequence to the floppy, but I cannot access any of the software that came with the system (MS Works et al.). The docs seem to imply that I can create a diskette version to run the software, which would be great if I had the original diskettes. So I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that I could get a copy of the diskettes that came with this system? Thanks, >> From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Tue Feb 3 16:52:51 1998 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: CP/M conversion Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980203195249.007126d0@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> Does anyone know of a conversion utiliy which will convert files from a CP/M machine to Mac format? There is someone here willing to part with his Kaypro 4 but needs to convert his old files first. I know there is a conversion utility for CP/M to DOS, which then can be converted to Mac, but then you would lose all the long filenames. A CP/M to Mac would be preferable, any ideas? From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Feb 3 17:34:48 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: CP/M conversion In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980203195249.007126d0@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> from "Alan Richards" at Feb 3, 98 07:52:51 pm Message-ID: <9802032334.AA18570@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 566 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980203/55e24020/attachment.ksh From alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca Tue Feb 3 17:21:59 1998 From: alanr at morgan.ucs.mun.ca (Alan Richards) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: CP/M conversion Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980203202157.00747b44@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> At 03:34 PM 03/02/98 -0800, you wrote: >"CP/M" machine is pretty vague. 8" floppy? 5.25" floppy? 3.5" floppy? > Sorry, it's for a Kaypro 4, which is 5.25" (i think) > >*Which* long filenames? CP/M is 8.3, too! > Sorry again, I am not familiar with CP/M. I was told however that when he (the one with the Kaypro 4) tried to convert files before, the CP/M <--> DOS <--> Mac conversion truncated his files, I must have misinterpreted this to mean filenames :( Thanks however for the link to the CP/M <--> DOS conversion utility, it is much appreciated :) From engine at chac.org Tue Feb 3 18:03:13 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) In-Reply-To: <199802031938.OAA24608@mail.cgocable.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980203092904.01060500@pop.batnet.com> <01bd30c0$ddd94620$bf62bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980203160313.0107f490@pop.batnet.com> At 14:44 2/3/98 +0000, Jason D. wrote: >So we do need that fragile 15 pin connectors. But with care, you can >have one that last for years from plugging/unplugging. The mistake >was idiotic users forcing all ham-fist it in too hard in bit wrong >way or backwards. Agreed, "with care." But too much care for the average user. Even I, who like to think I know what I'm doing, repeat the mantra "Never jam in a VGA connector no matter what" whenever I have the D-shell in my hand, just to slow myself down properly. >Simple solution: look at both shells to see right >way around and that famale one is really VGA connector, fit straight >in and push in, if you feel something hard and connector is not yet >all the way in yet, STOoOPP! But it's not a simple ENOUGH solution because, when I'm in the field and detaching a monitor from its computer, 50% of the connectors I look at have one pin bent in an L and jammed against the inner wall of the shell. The design isn't adequate to real-world use, is my point -- whereas a DB9, for example, certainly is. I'm not saying we don't need 15 pins; I say we need 15 THICKER pins, and since this connector is typically the only connector on the back of a VGA adapter, there's plenty of room. ____________________________________________________________ Kip Crosby, honcho, mechanic and sole proprietor, Kip's Garage http://www.kipsgarage.com: rumors, tech tips and philosophy for the trenches Coming Spring '98: The Windows 98 Bible by Kip Crosby and Fred Davis! From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Tue Feb 3 13:31:26 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: PS/1 software In-Reply-To: <34D790E0.31CE@usa.net> Message-ID: <199802040024.TAA02124@mail.cgocable.net> > I recently came into possession of a PS/1 model 2011. (I believe that > this was one of the initial PS/1 models). It has a '286 processor and > 30 meg harddrive. Unfortunately, the harddrive seems to be DOA (1701 > error on boot up). The system will boot up to a 4 quadrant screen from > the rom. I have downloaded the programs from IBM to switch the boot > sequence to the floppy, but I cannot access any of the software that > came with the system (MS Works et al.). The docs seem to imply that I > can create a diskette version to run the software, which would be great > if I had the original diskettes. > > So I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that I could get a copy of > the diskettes that came with this system? > > Thanks, > -- > Dan Rector > email: rector@usa.net Dan, find both setup programs at IBM site one for configuring the pc to which startup and one to configure the mouse ports etc.. I'm not sure if your HD is still living or not. Sigh...not thinking straight tonite, poor sleep last nite. :) Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 3 15:53:41 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:48 2005 Subject: PGA (RE: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980203092414.010609e0@pop.batnet.com> from "Kip Crosby" at Feb 3, 98 09:24:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 848 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980203/1aa7636c/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 3 16:06:11 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) In-Reply-To: <34D759CB.136A6C94@halcyon.com> from "David C. Jenner" at Feb 3, 98 09:54:19 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1508 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980203/bdfc3a90/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Tue Feb 3 15:43:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: EEPROM programmers again In-Reply-To: <199802030944.JAA13868@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> from "kevan@heydon.org" at Feb 3, 98 09:44:05 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1383 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980203/f1ba2c11/attachment.ksh From mallison at konnections.com Tue Feb 3 21:03:35 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Stuff, while we're at it... References: <199802031344.FAA25322@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34D7DA87.B70@konnections.com> Manney: I have 2 Macs, a Plus and a 512k. I upgrade the Plus with more memory and changed boxes because of the monitor. I'd include both. The only hard drive is the bernouli which is now out. I will include the 20 meg drive sans case, if you like. Software is just some system 6 stuff. OS and maybe some programs. I was mostly using Public Domain stuff off CDs. -Mike PG Manney wrote: > > Thanks. I'm in Ohio, 44857 > > As I understand it, you have a complete system, with a (fuzzy?) monitor? Is > there a HDD, or is that the bernoulli? Is there software? > > Thanks, > > manney@nwohio.com > > ---------- > > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > To: Manney > > Subject: Re: Stuff, while we're at it... > > Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 9:51 PM > > > > Manny: > > > > Sorry I haven't responded, I've been in Vegas since friday am. > > > > The MAC stuff is yours, if you desire. The only exception is the 5mb > > bernouli which was spoken for (but not yet taken) if that works out it's > > gone. I do have another 20MB bernouli, but I need the enclosure, you > > can have the drive though, if you like. > > > > Lemme know you're address and I'll check the shipping and send you back > > a total for your decision. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike Allison > > > > PG Manney wrote: > > > > > > I'd be interested in the Mac stuff > > > > > > manney@nwohio.com From wpe at interserv.com Tue Feb 3 21:02:42 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Info wanted (lots) References: <199802030247.VAA11533@armigeron.com> Message-ID: <34D7DA51.4E63B763@interserv.com> Don't know if this is any help, but, D.G.'s phone listing, in Westborough Ma. is 508.898.5000 Hope this is of some use..... Will Captain Napalm wrote: > (Man, is it weird to be using a 2400 modem to reply to this. "Why are you > using a 2400 modem?" you might ask. Good question. Answer: bad weather > (rain and lots of it) and crummy phone lines. I felt it was easier to hook > up the 2400 than to figure out how to reset my 28.8 not to attempt to > connect at 28.8 ... man have I gotten spoiled 8-) > > It was thus said that the Great Uncle Roger once stated: > > > > I've started scanning photos of my collection, and want to build the web > > pages for each machine. Unfortunately, I don't know everything about all > > of them; so I'm asking for help. Here are the machines I've scanned so far: > > > > Data General One > > > Hmm, seeing how I have one of these, plus the programmer's manual and some > of the add ons. A nice machine and one of the best keyboards ever (IMNSHO) > on a portable/laptop. > > > I'm looking for any info, specs, anecdotes, whatever you might know of > > regarding these machines. Specifically, the specs I want to list (and I'm > > open for suggestions on other info) include: > > > {mfr} Data General > {location} Mass. if I remember correctly. Or at least their main HQ > {model} 2217A > {processor} 4Mhz 80C88 > {opsys} MS-DOS 2.1, CP/M-86 (version unknown) > {bits-int} 16b > {bits-data} 8b > {ram-min} 128Kb (48Kb reserved for display) > {ram-max} 512Kb (internal, 48Kb for display, 464Kb for program/data, > external, an additional 364Kb is possible) > {rom} 32Kb > {input} keyboard, serial port, floppy (2 3.5" internal, external > drives possible with expansion port), expansion port (opt) > 300b internal modem (opt) > {display} 640x256 LCD display, non-back lit (compatible with CGA) > {stor-cas} none (or N/A) > {stor-fdd} up to 2 internal 3.5", external with expansion port > (5.25" available from DG, not sure about 3.5" external) > {stor-hdd} none (at least to my knowledge) > {expansion} external bus adaptor (external floppy adaptor uses this) > {intro} 1984 > {discon} unknown > {cost} unknown (but I can get the info - it made the cover of Byte > in 1984 when introduced) > {size} 11.25" x 13.5" x 3" (when folded) > {weight} unknown (but it's hefty) > {power-volt} 30W +5.8v DC > {power-conn} proprietary (unknown) > {power-polar} unknown > {notes} Two serial ports are built in, the primary is RS-232C/RS-422 > and contains modem control lines. The secondary is only > RS-232C with no modem control lines (primary use of the > secondary port is for serial printers). Both are driven > by 82C51 USART controllers and are NOT PC compatible > (bummer for an MS-DOS machine). > > RAM is 64K-bit CMOS static RAM (speed unspecified in the > docs I have) and is not preserved when shut down. When all > internal memory options have been installed, user has 464Kb > to work with. An additional 368Kb (for a total of 832Kb, > although MS-DOS would only use 704Kb) can be added via the > external IO bus, although I know of no product that does > this. > > The LCD display is both MDA (mono-chrome) and CGA compatible > and 48Kb of RAM is set aside for use by the LCD display > (including 12Kb for a RAM based font). > > -spc (What I want to know is if battery packs are still available. I'd > like to be able to use this without having to plug it in) From wpe at interserv.com Tue Feb 3 21:11:06 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Pinouts on a DEC VT320 terminal References: <199802030348.WAA03605@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <34D7DC49.EA4BDE9C@interserv.com> jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > > > > So I have this DEC VT320 terminal in front of me and it does work (very > > nicely, if I do say so). But what has me disturbed is the serial output > > port on this thing - it's the stranges port I've seen. Like a phone jack > > only not quite. And before I spend something like $50 on a cable, can > > anyone tell me what the pin outs are? > > > > -spc (Oh, and is it RS-232 even?) > > > Oh yeah, they're RS-232 and it requires MMJ jack type. I hacked up a > adapter cable MMJ to standard 25pin d-shell for my VT420 2 yr ago. > That VT420 is amber tube and refreshes at 70hz, what a concept! > > BUT, forgotten where I have that pinout! :( > > Digital blew that one trying to make $ on those connector > conpireicy. (sp?) They did the same thing with the serial version of the LJ250 color printer... I had to call DEC's carryin center up in Shrewsbury Ma, then drive out and get the cable.. What really frosted me, is the telephone service droid I initially called, didn't know a damn thing about it...... Still got th' printer though... Will > > > Jason D. > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca > Pero, Jason D. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980203/49bfdee1/attachment.html From jruschme at exit109.com Tue Feb 3 21:16:38 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: CP/M conversion In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980203195249.007126d0@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980203221638.007c13e0@hiway1.exit109.com> At 07:52 pm 2/3/98 -0300, you wrote: > Does anyone know of a conversion utiliy which will convert files from a >CP/M machine to Mac format? There is someone here willing to part with his >Kaypro 4 but needs to convert his old files first. I know there is a >conversion utility for CP/M to DOS, which then can be converted to Mac, but >then you would lose all the long filenames. A CP/M to Mac would be >preferable, any ideas? Direct conversion? No... not unless you count something like a serial port transfer using kermit or Zmodem. The big problem is that 5.25" drives are very unsual in the Mac world and what little software there is that supports them is all targeted towards reading old PC disks. (Though I would *love* to see someone write an equivalent of 22Disk that used to old Apple PC Drive Card.) The closest to a Mac-only solution that I've seen is to run 22Disk on a Mac286 board with an Apple 5.25" PC Drive connected. It's still a PC-based solution, but can actually read some single-density formats. As for the "long filenames", don't worry about a PC transfer. CP/M had the same 8.3 format as MS-DOS, so nothing would be lost. <<>> From photze at batelco.com.bh Tue Feb 3 21:48:46 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) Message-ID: <01bd311f$cbb313e0$1960bcc1@hotze> >Agreed, "with care." But too much care for the average user. Even I, who >like to think I know what I'm doing, repeat the mantra "Never jam in a VGA >connector no matter what" whenever I have the D-shell in my hand, just to >slow myself down properly. Actually, I've jammed the $^\&* things a few times myself. The solution (that I've come up with) is get a screw driver, (flathead) and then push it up and straighten it out. I've done the same thing with IDE connectors. I used the same solution, but instead of trial and error for getting them strait, I would get it straiter, then put an IDE cable into ONLY the damaged area, straiten it out a bit, see if it works, then try again. >But it's not a simple ENOUGH solution because, when I'm in the field and >detaching a monitor from its computer, 50% of the connectors I look at have >one pin bent in an L and jammed against the inner wall of the shell. The >design isn't adequate to real-world use, is my point -- whereas a DB9, for >example, certainly is. I'm not saying we don't need 15 pins; I say we need >15 THICKER pins, and since this connector is typically the only connector >on the back of a VGA adapter, there's plenty of room. Why not move away from this type of pins all together? Sure, it would cause major monitor incompatibility, but VGA type connectors are aging rapidly, and with new LCD monitors, the SVGA interface is reaching it's limits. Maybe something like a ethernet-type connector, or, as you said THICKER pins. Maybe switch the male-female part of this, with female-connector monitors. And, re-align the pins so that you can use a correctly configured (with the M-F type connectors, etc.) EGA, or CGA monitor. >Coming Spring '98: The Windows 98 Bible by Kip Crosby and Fred Davis! ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Keep me updated. Of course, MS wouldn't talk to me about reviewing it's products for my web site. :-( From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Feb 3 22:33:19 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) Message-ID: <199802040433.AA16003@world.std.com> David Williams - Computer Packrat said: >Also, I picked up a TRS-80 Model 4, again with out manuals or >software. I have some software for the model 1 but can someone send >me LDOS or other OS for the Model 4? You can get LDOS with documentation and other Misosys software on Tim Mann's TRS-80 page at http://www.research.digital.com/SRC/personal/mann/trs80.html#down or Stefan's Old Computer Stuff page at http://www.xs4all.nl/~rimmer/trs/trs.html ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 3 23:52:35 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Parallel ports In-Reply-To: <34d35b35.4839716@mail.swbell.net> References: <3.0.16.19980130184150.75c7c60a@ricochet.net> <3.0.16.19980130184150.75c7c60a@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980203235235.4c07bf48@intellistar.net> At 05:13 PM 1/31/98 GMT, you wrote: >On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 21:20:22 -0600 (CST), you said: > >>At 02:39 AM 1/30/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>> Have you ever seen a Zenith "MiniSport"? Uses 2" floppies? I found >>[...] >>>do its upload and you've got at least one disk, you can probably >>>(don't count on it, but probably) attach a parallel Zip drive). >> >>Question: when did parallel ports become bi-directional (i.e., useable for >>zip drives and such)? > >I thought they always were bi-directional on IBM-compats. I've run >Laplink on almost every PC I've ever owned. They were bi-directional in nearly all compatables but not in some of the early IBMs. Most of the clones were built later and used a newer design that was bi-directional. Joe >_______________ > >Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net >Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, >Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. > From rector at christcom.net Wed Feb 4 00:27:37 1998 From: rector at christcom.net (Dan Rector) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: PS/1 software References: <199802040024.TAA02124@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <34D80A59.A06@christcom.net> jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > > Dan, find both setup programs at IBM site one for configuring the pc > to which startup and one to configure the mouse ports etc.. I'm not > sure if your HD is still living or not. > > Sigh...not thinking straight tonite, poor sleep last nite. :) > > Jason D. > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca > Pero, Jason D. Jason, I downloaded both config programs configur.exe and customiz.exe. I used the one to change the boot sequence from the rom to the floppy. The other one gets a divide by zero error if the hd is connected. The program seems to work fine if I disconnect the hd cable. -- Dan Rector rector@usa.net From rector at christcom.net Wed Feb 4 00:40:24 1998 From: rector at christcom.net (Dan Rector) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: PS/1 software References: <420ea26f.34d7a035@aol.com> Message-ID: <34D80D58.F4A@christcom.net> SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > ah yes, the first ps1 series to come out. i presume its a 2011-c34 or m01. you > might want to try this trick: > with the machine off, press and hold down both mouse buttons, then power on. > when it posts, let the buttons go. that will force an autoconfig, and make it > boot from rom again. that trick works on all ps1 models. you shoulda made your > disk backups when it was running, but too late now. you can still order the > core software from ibm. i think it's ~$45. ring the helpcentre at 800.772.2227 > Yes, its a 2011-c34. I have no problem booting from the rom. I hear the hd spin up but then it slows down again and the light stays on. I get a 1701 error and an indication to press f1. After pressing f1 the computer boots from either the floppy or the rom. I wish I could have made backups first but it was doa when I got it. Do you know if the parts (hd floppy) are interchangeable with ps/2 hardware? Thanks for the software source tip. -- Dan Rector rector@usa.net From gram at cnct.com Tue Feb 3 23:10:14 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) References: <199802040433.AA16003@world.std.com> Message-ID: <34D7F836.5DBC7394@cnct.com> Allison J Parent wrote: > > <15 THICKER pins, and since this connector is typically the only connecto > > Par of the resoning was that it should have a connector that is not like > any other. if it were a standard db9 or db15 you'd have people plugging > into the serial port screaming it don't work. It's bad enough that you > have people that will force things no matter what. > > Allison Especially from the experience of the AT&T (Olivetti) 6300 video interface using what looked liked a standard DB-25, but with one line carrying 70vdc to power the monitor. A guy with a standard PC printer cable discovered the only way I ever heard of to kill a Radio Shack Daisy Wheel Printer II (a tire iron wouldn't!). It also killed the 6300, but at the time they were easier to find. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Tue Feb 3 23:46:59 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: CP/M conversion In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980203202157.00747b44@pop.morgan.ucs.mun.ca> from "Alan Richards" at Feb 3, 98 08:21:59 pm Message-ID: <9802040546.AA18006@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 694 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980203/fc57b54c/attachment.ksh From engine at chac.org Tue Feb 3 22:38:03 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) In-Reply-To: <01bd311f$cbb313e0$1960bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980203203803.010b31e0@pop.batnet.com> At 06:48 2/4/98 +0300, Hotze wrote: >Actually, I've jammed the $^\&* [DE15's] a few times myself. The solution >(that I've come up with) is get a screw driver, (flathead) and then push it >up and straighten it out. If that works, you're lucky; if not, it's time for the needlenose pliers, at which point the game becomes "straighten one pin without bending others." >Why not move away from this type of pins all together?.... >Maybe something like a ethernet-type connector, or, .... >Maybe switch the male-female part of this, with female-connector >monitors. Now that you've said that -- how about a Centronics-type connector, with the female end on the end of the monitor cable, and the male end recessed into the card bracket, where it would just be another feature connector of sorts? This exact combination, when used for parallel printers or external SCSI, is almost indestructible. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Wed Feb 4 00:05:34 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) In-Reply-To: <199802040433.AA16003@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980203220534.010cba50@pop.batnet.com> At 23:33 2/3/98 -0500, Allison wrote: ><....I say we need ><15 THICKER pins, and since this....is typically the only connector >Part of the reasoning was that it should have a connector that is not like >any other. if it were a standard db9 or db15 you'd have people plugging >into the serial port.... Okay, then; make it DB15 male on the card bracket and female on the monitor. That way it's backwards to the joystick port, and people don't mix it up, any more than they mix up "DB25" male serial and female parallel. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From gram at cnct.com Wed Feb 4 05:05:06 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: CP/M conversion References: <9802040546.AA18006@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <34D84B62.62CA4A10@cnct.com> Tim Shoppa wrote: > > > >"CP/M" machine is pretty vague. 8" floppy? 5.25" floppy? 3.5" floppy? > > > > > Sorry, it's for a Kaypro 4, which is 5.25" (i think) > > > > > >*Which* long filenames? CP/M is 8.3, too! > > > > > Sorry again, I am not familiar with CP/M. I was told however that when he > > (the one with the Kaypro 4) tried to convert files before, the CP/M <--> > > DOS <--> Mac conversion truncated his files, I must have misinterpreted > > this to mean filenames :( > > What was he using to transfer the files between the MS-DOS machine and > the Mac? You have to keep in mind that different machines do have > different end-of-line conventions for text files, and not all the world > is binary! > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) All the world _is_ binary. Not all of it is ASCII. Forgive me, it's way past my bedtime. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 4 07:57:49 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: TRW Acquisitions, VCF/building s100 systems In-Reply-To: <199802022205.AA27045@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980204075749.42873dd2@intellistar.net> Allison, Somehow I missed this message. At 05:05 PM 2/2/98 -0500, you wrote: > ><>They may work muost just pull the 360k drives from an XT. >< >< Aren't SA 400's single density? XT drives are Double Density. Yes, > >Sa400 would do FM (single density) and MFM (double density). the 360k >drive also do single density. Do you mean that XT drive will run SD whn run off of a SD controller and the disks will be compatable? They would be great. I knew a XT drive would read and write but I thought the disks would be incompatible with a disk from a SA 400. It's the 1.2m 5.25" drives that are weird. Yes, 17 sectors and odd number of tracks. The track spacing is 1/2 of that of the 180 and 360K drives and the first track is in a different location. > >< Do you have the old NS* software that will run on the Alrair? > >By default yes.. and no. The stuff will run on an altair but the IO >which is personalized for my NS* with it's two serial ports. there >is no way I can personalize it for the altair as I have no clue of the >IO (serial boards used and their addreses). The NS* motherboard >(backplane) has two serial ports and a parallel port plus a few >other useful things so their configurations were easier to be certain >of. Just tell me where it expects them to be and I'll set mine to that address. I have 2 serial on one card and 1 serial and 1 parallel on another. You need to track down a set of NS* manuals or copies. Not a problem. I have a bunch of them, just no software. > >FYI: NSdos requires a minimum 16k of ram starting at 2000h it does not >use ram below 2000h (or care). Also it assumes the ports start at 00 >and the port devices are 8251s with hard jumpered baud rates. RAM is not a problem. The 8251s are. One of my boards is a MITS 2-SIO and it has a 6850. The other is a Jade Computer Products JP/S-1 card. It has two strange chips on it. The logo on the ICs looks like an integral sign running through a circle. The number on the is TR 1602-B. Do you know anything about this card? I have no docs on it. BTW I also have a couple of Vector Graphics 8K Static RAM memory boards. Do you have any info on them? > >If you are going to configure an altair you need manuals, more manuals I have manuals, manuals and more manuals. But still don't have manuals for everything. Biggest problem is I don't have the software. >and it doesn't hurt to be able do digital design to understand what they >did. Been there, done that, got the degree (two of them in fact) You see the docs with early altairs were not amoung the best. Most >of what you may need to know often had to be extracted from the printsets >by understanding the logic. I wish all manuals were that "bad". I'd rather have schematics or logic diagrams instead of the trash they print now. then you have the non-altair boards plugged >in that manuals are very handy for too. If the boards require extra or >specific software (some terminal interface or video display boards) the >hadware and software manuals may be needed. Yes, I know. Joe > >Allison > > From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Feb 4 07:06:06 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) Message-ID: <01bd316d$a75677a0$6a60bcc1@hotze> >If that works, you're lucky; if not, it's time for the needlenose pliers, >at which point the game becomes "straighten one pin without bending others." Actually, that's why I choose a screw driver. It's small enough that I don't worry about getting two pins, just the one that I want fixed. It's worked 10 or so times, no problems, 10 min. MAX for each, usually no more than 2 or 3. >Now that you've said that -- how about a Centronics-type connector, with >the female end on the end of the monitor cable, and the male end recessed >into the card bracket, where it would just be another feature connector of >sorts? This exact combination, when used for parallel printers or external >SCSI, is almost indestructible. That would work. Also, current monitors would be able to use it. You could even have a little plug-in thing for current monitors/video cards, with no re-design needed. I don't think that I've got the power to pull this off, but I do know a guy at Diamond MM, reviewing products for my web site. Ciao, Tim D. Hotze From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Feb 4 07:13:10 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Altair 8800b + drive alignment Message-ID: <01bd316e$a4515880$6df438cb@nostromo> I recently purchased an Altair 8800b from the original owner. He told me that last he used it (1984?), he was having trouble reading from the disk drive, and he was sure that it needed alignment. Apparently an alignment disk is required. I suspect an oscilloscope as well. I have two questions; 1) Can someone explain the process of aligning a disk drive, what is out of whack, and how tricky it is for a rank electronics amateur like myself 2) Where can I obtain an alignment disk, if required. Oh, I forgot to mention, the drive is an 8", the Altair model that has the same basic case and look of the Altair itself. This repair is one of the (I suspect) many that will be required to bring the Altair back to life. I've managed to get it (almost) firing up during the self-test stage, but one of the address lines doesn't behave (the light doesn't come on on A2 when I flick the switch that should light all of them, yet the light is operational at other stages). I'll get to that one later. Looks like a long, slow process. But worth it, no? Cheers Andrew From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Feb 4 03:07:01 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) In-Reply-To: <01bd316d$a75677a0$6a60bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <199802041400.JAA25605@mail.cgocable.net> > >If that works, you're lucky; if not, it's time for the needlenose pliers, > >at which point the game becomes "straighten one pin without bending > others." > Actually, that's why I choose a screw driver. It's small enough that I > don't worry about getting two pins, just the one that I want fixed. It's > worked 10 or so times, no problems, 10 min. MAX for each, usually no more > than 2 or 3. Works best if the long nose pliers is smooth gripping surface kind and might needs grinding down the factory shape to best shape because often I find it imperfect made when bought. Done that many times with several monitors with bent pins. My dad jammed his too hard in and got L. Oops! > >Now that you've said that -- how about a Centronics-type connector, with > >the female end on the end of the monitor cable, and the male end recessed > >into the card bracket, where it would just be another feature connector of > >sorts? This exact combination, when used for parallel printers or external > >SCSI, is almost indestructible. > That would work. Also, current monitors would be able to use it. You could > even have a little plug-in thing for current monitors/video cards, with no > re-design needed. I don't think that I've got the power to pull this off, > but I do know a guy at Diamond MM, reviewing products for my web site. Oh boy an 20pin centronics type connector with snaps would be wonderful! Or, just 5 BNC's on card with a monitor also BNC itself and no pesky PnP feature to boot! > Ciao, > > Tim D. Hotze Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Feb 4 03:11:02 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) In-Reply-To: <34D7F836.5DBC7394@cnct.com> Message-ID: <199802041404.JAA26353@mail.cgocable.net> > Allison J Parent wrote: Big snip! > > Allison > > Especially from the experience of the AT&T (Olivetti) 6300 video > interface using what looked liked a standard DB-25, but with one > line carrying 70vdc to power the monitor. A guy with a standard > PC printer cable discovered the only way I ever heard of to kill > a Radio Shack Daisy Wheel Printer II (a tire iron wouldn't!). It > also killed the 6300, but at the time they were easier to find. > -- > Ward Griffiths > Dylan: How many years must some people exist, > before they're allowed to be free? > WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", > they'll never be free. > 70vdc in that thing!? Hee hee hee...I'm sure it burnt out one or 2 buffer chip if the printer is decent enough but I'm assured that printer is hosed if it's recent made. I have no idea why some guys would need 70vdc for unless it is for color but that current draw is too much via 1pin? Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Feb 4 03:15:31 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: PS/1 software In-Reply-To: <34D80D58.F4A@christcom.net> Message-ID: <199802041408.JAA27129@mail.cgocable.net> > SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > Snip! > > Yes, its a 2011-c34. I have no problem booting from the rom. I hear > the hd spin up but then it slows down again and the light stays on. I > get a 1701 error and an indication to press f1. After pressing f1 the > computer boots from either the floppy or the rom. > > I wish I could have made backups first but it was doa when I got it. Do > you know if the parts (hd floppy) are interchangeable with ps/2 > hardware? hard drives of this kind is very common if it was made by ibm and in early times. Just take it out anyway. Spin down from spin up is bad news anyway. I was very, very interested in knowing if interface really is ata type IDE or NOT?! Jason D. > > Thanks for the software source tip. > > -- > Dan Rector > > rector@usa.net > > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Feb 4 08:13:26 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Altair 8800b + drive alignment Message-ID: <199802041413.AA04602@world.std.com> <1) Can someone explain the process of aligning a disk drive, what is out Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980204091756.42874dcc@intellistar.net> Andrew, At 12:13 AM 2/5/98 +1100, you wrote: >I recently purchased an Altair 8800b from the original owner. He told me >that last he used it (1984?), he was having trouble reading from the disk FWIW if it's just an alignment problem you should be able to write data to a disk and read it back with no problem. But you will not be able to read a disk written on another machine. If you can't write data and read it back from the same disk then there is something else wrong. The head material on the very old drives wasn't as hard as the stuff they use now and it's possible that the heads are worn out. >drive, and he was sure that it needed alignment. Apparently an alignment >disk is required. >I suspect an oscilloscope as well. Yes and a way to set the drive to a specific track. Usually a special test box but the are utilities for the PC to do that. Perhaps you can connect your drive to a PC long enough to align it. If you have the pin out of the drive interface and you understand how the interface operates it would be easy to make a test box. In addition, you will have to know the specific procedure that your drive uses. Also the procedure usually requires an alignment disk with special patterns at specific locations. I don't know (but I doubt) that all alignment disks are the same. > >I have two questions; > >1) Can someone explain the process of aligning a disk drive, what is out of >whack, and how tricky it is for a rank electronics amateur like myself Basicly you insert the alignment disk, step the heads out to a specific cylinder and look at the *analog* data coming from the head(s). The alignment disk has a two SIN waves recorded on it that are 180 degress out of phase, one is recorded on each side of the alignment track. When you look at the output of the read amplifier, the two SIN wave will be superimposed over each other and should be the same amplitude. If the drive is out of alignment, one SIN wave will be greater than the other. You then have to adjust the head radially to equalize the SIN waves. If the head is out of position more than a few ten thousands of an inch, you will see only one SIN wave or none. Then you have to step the head in or out to try and find out in whickh direction the alignment track is on the disk. Once you find it you know which way to move the head so then you set the haed to the proper track and move the head to find and align the SIN ways. If you have a double sided drive you have to repeat this procedure for the other head. You need the drive information to know where the test points are to look at the read amplifier outputs. And you have to know which track(s) on the alignment disk contains the alignment pattern. Of course, this is the simple version and assumes that the track step distance is fixed so you only have to align the reads at one position. In some older systems you have to adjust the head position at several points in it's travel. >2) Where can I obtain an alignment disk, if required. I have an 8" one. > >Oh, I forgot to mention, the drive is an 8", the Altair model that has the >same basic case and look of the Altair itself. This repair is one of the (I >suspect) many that will be required to bring the Altair back to life. What model disk drive is it? I have a manual for a Shugart SA 400 (5 1/4"). It's very similar to the Shugart SA 800 (8"). It doesn't have the alignment procedure but it does expalin how the drive operates and it may be helpful. BTW does anyone know what kind of 8" drives are used in the Intel MCS 80 developement system? I have four of those drives and I wonder if they're suitable for this? > >I've managed to get it (almost) firing up during the self-test stage, but >one of the address lines doesn't behave (the light doesn't come on on A2 >when I flick the switch that should light all of them, yet the light is >operational at other stages). I'll get to that one later. > >Looks like a long, slow process. But worth it, no? I hope so. I have to do all this with mine too. Good Luck. Joe > >Cheers >Andrew > > > > From zmerch at northernway.net Wed Feb 4 08:51:26 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Floppy Specificiations In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980204075749.42873dd2@intellistar.net> References: <199802022205.AA27045@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980204095126.0097ccb0@mail.northernway.net> At 07:57 AM 2/4/98, you wrote: > Do you mean that XT drive will run SD whn run off of a SD controller and >the disks will be compatable? They would be great. I knew a XT drive >would read and write but I thought the disks would be incompatible with a >disk from a SA 400. Yup. >It's the 1.2m 5.25" drives that are weird. Yup. > Yes, 17 sectors and odd number of tracks. The track spacing is 1/2 of >that of the 180 and 360K drives and the first track is in a different >location. Nope. 1.2Meg 5.25" HD drives are 15 sectors per track, and the standard 80 tracks (at the standard 96 tracks per inch), just like 720K DSDD 80 track 5.25" drives. I heard rumors that the reason they went with 15 spt is because they tried doubling the density to 18 spt (like the 3.5" floppies) but the formats were (at best) highly unstable and of poor quality. So they just dropped the SPT to something that was more reliable... but that's just a rumor I heard. The # of 17 spt IIRC is from MFM hard drives, and RLL hard drives used 26 spt. I also remember that (at least some) 8" floppies used 77 tracks, but 5.25" floppies have used either 35, 40, or 80 tracks as a standard. Hope this helps, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From jruschme at exit109.com Wed Feb 4 08:49:28 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) In-Reply-To: <199802040433.AA16003@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980204094928.007bd920@hiway1.exit109.com> At 11:33 pm 2/3/98 -0500, you wrote: > ><15 THICKER pins, and since this connector is typically the only connecto > >Par of the resoning was that it should have a connector that is not like >any other. if it were a standard db9 or db15 you'd have people plugging >into the serial port screaming it don't work. It's bad enough that you >have people that will force things no matter what. I truly believe that this is the reason, but can't help but be slightly amazed that, of all companies, IBM would be concerned with idiot-proofing a box. After all, weren't most of their boxes intended to go into shops where an "adequate" support mechanism would exist to set them up? The extreme of this is companies like Packard Bell who color code all the connectors. At the other end of the spectrum, you have Apple who uses the same DB-15 on all monitors and DB-19 on all floppy drives. The result is the all-too-frequent FAQs: - Can I use an Apple //gs monitor on a Mac? - Can I use my Mac (or //gs) monitor on my //c? - Can I use my 5.25" Unidisk on a Mac? - etc. Heck, I'm amazed Tandy got along as long as they did putting every thing on 34-pin edge connectors and DIN plugs. <<>> From manney at nwohio.nwohio.com Tue Feb 3 18:20:11 1998 From: manney at nwohio.nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: greetings Message-ID: <199802041529.HAA17022@mxu2.u.washington.edu> >the eminent slipsticker Andrew Davie wrote: "Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here has his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? manney From zmerch at northernway.net Wed Feb 4 09:52:03 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: greetings In-Reply-To: <199802041529.HAA17022@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980204105203.009bb950@mail.northernway.net> At 07:20 PM 2/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >>the eminent slipsticker Andrew Davie wrote: > > > >"Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here has >his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? Tho I haven't "Slip-stuck" (other than the usual wintertime stuff up here in the "Great White North" ;-) in quite some time, I still have my slide-rule in the basement, right next to the book w/ instructions on how to use it... (I can remember the simpler functions (multiply, divide & the like) but how to use the thing for calculus & whatnot I'm sure has "slipped" my mind... (lame) Pun intended ;^> And tho we did have some TRS-80 Model 4's (and an old IBM Series/1) in high school, I did use it occasionally during geometry / algebra class when necessary -- took it to college a few times to, but just to watch people gawk... ;-) Have fun, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 4 10:11:12 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: CP/M conversion Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980204101112.00c06bb0@pc> >Does anyone know of a conversion utiliy which will convert files from a >CP/M machine to Mac format? There is someone here willing to part with his >Kaypro 4 but needs to convert his old files first. No one's mentioned the problem that you'll also need to convert the *data* once you've moved the *files*. Which word processor created the files, and which contemporary word processor do you hope to use them in? You may need to revive the original machine or something similar in order to re-save the documents in ASCII. Conversion programs might be available, but that might cost $$$. Of course, you'll need to run 22Disk on a PC equipped with both 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 floppies, then move the files to a 3 1/2 PC disk, and the Mac can read them as-is. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From manney at nwohio.nwohio.com Wed Feb 4 10:11:56 1998 From: manney at nwohio.nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0 Message-ID: <199802041629.IAA23161@mxu2.u.washington.edu> I had a customer who plugged in his IDE cable's middle connector (HDD one end, motherboard on the other) into the sound board's IDE pins, because "it looked like it fit." Some people will do ANYTHING! manney ---------- > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > To: Manney > Subject: Re: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0 > Date: Tuesday, February 03, 1998 10:40 PM > > > <15 THICKER pins, and since this connector is typically the only connecto > > Par of the resoning was that it should have a connector that is not like > any other. if it were a standard db9 or db15 you'd have people plugging > into the serial port screaming it don't work. It's bad enough that you > have people that will force things no matter what. > > Allison > From manney at nwohio.nwohio.com Wed Feb 4 10:26:28 1998 From: manney at nwohio.nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: How much do 8" Floppies hold? Message-ID: <199802041629.IAA02087@mxu3.u.washington.edu> I keep an 8" floppy disk in the front of my store to amaze people ("Just fold it twice and stick it in your drive...it holds a lot!") Just how much do (did?) they hold? (I'm sure there were different data densities...just a range is all I want!) manney From engine at chac.org Wed Feb 4 10:29:35 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <199802041529.HAA17022@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980204082935.0107b460@pop.batnet.com> At 19:20 2/3/98 -0500, PG wrote: >"Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here has >his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a belt loop. Yes, I still have a slide rule, and yes, I think I could still use it. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Feb 4 10:31:48 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Altair 8800b + drive alignment In-Reply-To: <01bd316e$a4515880$6df438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Feb 5, 98 00:13:10 am Message-ID: <9802041631.AA19818@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2551 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980204/265d452b/attachment.ksh From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Feb 4 10:34:18 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: How much do 8" Floppies hold? In-Reply-To: <199802041629.IAA02087@mxu3.u.washington.edu> from "PG Manney" at Feb 4, 98 11:26:28 am Message-ID: <9802041634.AA07124@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 621 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980204/53c35f6b/attachment.ksh From manney at nwohio.nwohio.com Wed Feb 4 10:34:02 1998 From: manney at nwohio.nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Slipsticks and calculators Message-ID: <199802041639.IAA26710@mxu4.u.washington.edu> (I can remember the simpler functions (multiply, divide & the > like) but how to use the thing for calculus & whatnot I'm sure has > "slipped" my mind... (lame) Pun intended ;^> Lame is right -- you're slipping. You can'y use 'am for calculus...you must be thinking of trig. > > And tho we did have some TRS-80 Model 4's (and an old IBM Series/1) in high > school, I did use it occasionally during geometry / algebra class when > necessary -- took it to college a few times to, but just to watch people > gawk... ;-) I went through Navy Nuclear Power School in '76, and they were required...even tho' calculators were cheap, then. Texas Instruments was naming some of their calculators "SR" (for Slide Rule) up until the mid-80's, at least. My first one was the SR-10...the LED "wedge". $110, IIRC Was that TI's first? manney From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Feb 4 10:42:03 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: CP/M conversion In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980204101112.00c06bb0@pc> from "John Foust" at Feb 4, 98 10:11:12 am Message-ID: <9802041642.AA18610@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1093 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980204/6f13cf8d/attachment.ksh From engine at chac.org Wed Feb 4 10:43:06 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: How much do 8" Floppies hold? In-Reply-To: <199802041629.IAA02087@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980204084306.01087650@pop.batnet.com> At 11:26 2/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >I keep an 8" floppy disk in the front of my store.... >Just how much do (did?) they hold? (I'm sure there were different data >densities...just a range is all I want!) Roughly 90K to 800K. Very roughly. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Feb 4 10:45:09 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: PS/1 software Message-ID: <254dcf57.34d89b17@aol.com> I used to support these machines but its been a while. i think the hard drive is proprietary, but i do remember someone somewhere mentioning adding a really big hard drive and getting it to work. send me another notice via private mail reminding me, and i will check on it when i get back to work. david In a message dated 98-02-04 00:20:43 EST, you write: << Yes, its a 2011-c34. I have no problem booting from the rom. I hear the hd spin up but then it slows down again and the light stays on. I get a 1701 error and an indication to press f1. After pressing f1 the computer boots from either the floppy or the rom. I wish I could have made backups first but it was doa when I got it. Do you know if the parts (hd floppy) are interchangeable with ps/2 hardware? Thanks for the software source tip. >> From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Feb 4 11:18:42 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Slipping sticks Message-ID: <199802041718.AA07021@world.std.com> "Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here ha <>his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? I have my 10" white aluminum pickett handy and grab it when a quick "good to three places" answer will do. I also use a E6B which is a circular aircraft slide rule for time, speed, distance, fuel use and wind correction. That one is in the plane as I'm absolutely certain it works as the calculator version of the E6B allways seems to need a new battery. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Feb 4 11:18:56 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Altair 8800b + drive alignment Message-ID: <199802041718.AA07260@world.std.com> This repair is one of the (I <> suspect) many that will be required to bring the Altair back to life. <> I've managed to get it (almost) firing up during the self-test stage < <"self-test stage"? Is this a turnkey model with a boot in ROM, Well, since we're on this subject... how can I resist once more mentioning... Slide Rule Trading Post http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/ On my site you will find a link to JavaSlide on the main menu. That's a JAVA slide rule I wrote some while back, so you can reminisc even if you can't find your old faithful. Its quite good, actually. There's a society called the Oughtred society, with around 400+ members. Each devoted to their slide rule collection. I know of some people with 700+ units. Me, I have 30, including a 7 foot long Pickett classroom rule. Cheers Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 4:22 AM Subject: Re: Slipping sticks > ><>"Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here ha ><>his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? > >I have my 10" white aluminum pickett handy and grab it when a quick >"good to three places" answer will do. I also use a E6B which is a >circular aircraft slide rule for time, speed, distance, fuel use and >wind correction. That one is in the plane as I'm absolutely certain >it works as the calculator version of the E6B allways seems to need a >new battery. > >Allison > > From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Feb 4 11:22:44 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Altair 8800b + drive alignment Message-ID: <01bd3191$81199bc0$6df438cb@nostromo> The manual/documentation I have gives a procedure you can follow (manually flipping the switches all the way) which is a self-test. Following the procedure you can check if your 8800b is working correctly. Using this procedure I tracked down several problems (loose wires to fron panel) but still have the address light problem. I'll track down the procedure and explain further, if there is any interest. I appreciate the comments about the alignment problem, and can see how basically I should be concentrating on the Altair first. So thats what I'll do. More soon. Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Allison J Parent To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 4:24 AM Subject: Re: Altair 8800b + drive alignment > ><> This repair is one of the (I ><> suspect) many that will be required to bring the Altair back to life. ><> I've managed to get it (almost) firing up during the self-test stage >< ><"self-test stage"? Is this a turnkey model with a boot in ROM, > >ALTAIR 8800b (with altair disk controller) used a boot program or a boot >rom card and DID NOT have anything resembling PC self test(or any >diagnostics). > >Allison > > From engine at chac.org Wed Feb 4 11:28:54 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:49 2005 Subject: Slipsticks and calculators and a clock In-Reply-To: <199802041639.IAA26710@mxu4.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980204092854.01087330@pop.batnet.com> At 11:34 2/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >Texas Instruments was naming some of their calculators "SR" (for Slide >Rule) up until the mid-80's, at least. My first one was the SR-10...the LED >"wedge". $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first? So my father thought, at least, when he bought the first one he saw, for $140. My mother was appalled. (He also bought TI's first, maybe the first-in-the-US, LED digital clock, the TI-71. I don't remember how much that was, and suspect he never let on, but it's here now, still keeping fine time.) __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 4 13:18:06 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: greetings In-Reply-To: <199802041529.HAA17022@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980204131806.46976b54@intellistar.net> At 07:20 PM 2/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >>the eminent slipsticker Andrew Davie wrote: > > > >"Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here has >his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? > >manney I still have my circular slide rule from high school and even use it on occassion. I won't say when I got it but it was before HP released the -35 :-/ Joe From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Feb 4 12:21:59 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? Message-ID: <01bd3199$c8427dc0$LocalHost@hotze> Hi. There's this guy, in Bahrain, who's got a PS/1 386 2MB RAM, that's been "sitting in his closet." Now, he wants to know what it would be worth. I want to know what it'd be worth, too. (There's going to be arguements.... I'm sure.) Anyway, condition is currently unknown, but assumed in working condition. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 4 13:38:55 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: How much do 8" Floppies hold? In-Reply-To: <199802041629.IAA02087@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980204133855.4697fa38@intellistar.net> Looked in my 1978 Intel catalog. It says that their iSBC 202 double density controller is compatible with the Shugart SA 800 8" disk drive and that it will store 77 tracks per disk, 52 saectors per track and 128 bytes per track. Their iSBC 211 and 212 disk subsystems allow 256K per diskette. BTW someone on this list said that Intel did not use the i prefix until the 486 CPU came out. That's not right, I have an Intel "iAPX 86,888 User's Manual" dated 1981. At 11:26 AM 2/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >I keep an 8" floppy disk in the front of my store to amaze people ("Just >fold it twice and stick it in your drive...it holds a lot!") > >Just how much do (did?) they hold? (I'm sure there were different data >densities...just a range is all I want!) > >manney > > From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Feb 4 12:45:49 1998 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Stupid bus tricks Message-ID: > >I thought the multiplexed NeXT "Zilla?" used the SCSI ports... > Zilla's copyright 1990, (so off-topic, please excuse me.). It uses regular ethernet networking. It's on my NeXT, but I've got no further information and no contacts about it. (If anyone else does, please contact me by email.) - Mark From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 4 14:03:24 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <199802041718.AA07021@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980204140324.824f61d6@intellistar.net> At 12:18 PM 2/4/98 -0500, you wrote: > ><>"Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here ha ><>his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? > >I have my 10" white aluminum pickett handy and grab it when a quick >"good to three places" answer will do. I also use a E6B which is a >circular aircraft slide rule for time, speed, distance, fuel use and >wind correction. That one is in the plane as I'm absolutely certain >it works as the calculator version of the E6B allways seems to need a >new battery. > >Allison > I have a type MB-4. It's an older version of the EB-6. Does anyone have any instructions for it? Joe > From higginbo at netpath.net Wed Feb 4 13:08:35 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? In-Reply-To: <01bd3199$c8427dc0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980204140835.007e2d90@netpath.net> At 09:21 PM 2/4/98 +0300, you wrote: >Hi. There's this guy, in Bahrain, who's got a PS/1 386 2MB RAM, that's been >"sitting in his closet." Now, he wants to know what it would be worth. I >want to know what it'd be worth, too. (There's going to be arguements.... Shekels or dollars? :) - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Feb 4 13:05:16 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? Message-ID: <79323383.34d8bbee@aol.com> In a message dated 98-02-04 13:25:22 EST, you write: << Hi. There's this guy, in Bahrain, who's got a PS/1 386 2MB RAM, that's been "sitting in his closet." Now, he wants to know what it would be worth. I want to know what it'd be worth, too. (There's going to be arguements.... I'm sure.) Anyway, condition is currently unknown, but assumed in working condition. >> post the model number and i can give more info about it. david From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 4 14:14:57 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <01bd3191$382045e0$6df438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980204141457.824f9a52@intellistar.net> At 04:20 AM 2/5/98 +1100, you wrote: >Well, since we're on this subject... how can I resist once more >mentioning... > >Slide Rule Trading Post >http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/ > >On my site you will find a link to JavaSlide on the main menu. That's a >JAVA slide rule I wrote some while back, so you can reminisc even if you >can't find your old faithful. Its quite good, actually. Yes, but when are you going to make a circular version? :-) From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Feb 4 13:15:36 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? Message-ID: <01bd31a1$4606fa40$LocalHost@hotze> Dollars, please. C'mon, I'm not THAT far away. (PS-The guy's here now... might be handy.) -----Original Message----- From: John Higginbotham To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 10:12 PM Subject: Re: PS/1 How Much? >At 09:21 PM 2/4/98 +0300, you wrote: >>Hi. There's this guy, in Bahrain, who's got a PS/1 386 2MB RAM, that's been >>"sitting in his closet." Now, he wants to know what it would be worth. I >>want to know what it'd be worth, too. (There's going to be arguements.... > >Shekels or dollars? :) > >- John Higginbotham >- limbo.netpath.net > From engine at chac.org Wed Feb 4 13:28:14 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? In-Reply-To: <01bd3199$c8427dc0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980204112814.0107f650@pop.batnet.com> At 21:21 2/4/98 +0300, you wrote: >Hi. There's this guy, in Bahrain, who's got a PS/1 386 2MB RAM, that's been >"sitting in his closet." Now, he wants to know what it would be worth. I >want to know what it'd be worth, too.... If it's a garden-variety PS/1, strictly he should pay you to take it, but you can be a nice guy and let him give it to you. After all, that way it's off his hands. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From gram at cnct.com Wed Feb 4 13:31:21 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) References: <199802041404.JAA26353@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <34D8C209.8A184CBC@cnct.com> jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > > > Allison J Parent wrote: > > Big snip! > > > > Allison > > > > Especially from the experience of the AT&T (Olivetti) 6300 video > > interface using what looked liked a standard DB-25, but with one > > line carrying 70vdc to power the monitor. A guy with a standard > > PC printer cable discovered the only way I ever heard of to kill > > a Radio Shack Daisy Wheel Printer II (a tire iron wouldn't!). It > > also killed the 6300, but at the time they were easier to find. > > -- > > Ward Griffiths > > Dylan: How many years must some people exist, > > before they're allowed to be free? > > WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", > > they'll never be free. > > > 70vdc in that thing!? Hee hee hee...I'm sure it burnt out one or 2 > buffer chip if the printer is decent enough but I'm assured that > printer is hosed if it's recent made. > > I have no idea why some guys would need 70vdc for unless it is for > color but that current draw is too much via 1pin? That was the sole power to the monitor, there was no external power cord for it. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Feb 4 13:42:43 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? Message-ID: <01bd31a5$0fa246e0$LocalHost@hotze> Sorry... I don't know about such things. I knew about PS/2 parts (keyboards, mice, etc.) then PS/2 SYSTEMS (last summer), then PS/1 systems (about 2 months ago). So, other than the fact that they DO EXIST, I know nothing about them. I'm guessing Microchannel, but I've never seen such as system myself. I don't know if he was willing to GIVE IT TO ME. Anyway, what's a "garden variety" PS/1? What are un-garden variety PS/1's? >If it's a garden-variety PS/1, strictly he should pay you to take it, but >you can be a nice guy and let him give it to you. After all, that way it's >off his hands. > >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 4 14:47:53 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? In-Reply-To: <01bd31a5$0fa246e0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980204144753.824fd20a@intellistar.net> I bought a working one at a garage sale last year with books, keyboard, monitor, mouse etc but no disks for $5. At 10:42 PM 2/4/98 +0300, you wrote: >Sorry... I don't know about such things. I knew about PS/2 parts >(keyboards, mice, etc.) then PS/2 SYSTEMS (last summer), then PS/1 systems >(about 2 months ago). So, other than the fact that they DO EXIST, I know >nothing about them. I'm guessing Microchannel, but I've never seen such as >system myself. > I don't know if he was willing to GIVE IT TO ME. Anyway, what's a >"garden variety" PS/1? What are un-garden variety PS/1's? >>If it's a garden-variety PS/1, strictly he should pay you to take it, but >>you can be a nice guy and let him give it to you. After all, that way it's >>off his hands. >> >>__________________________________________ >>Kip Crosby engine@chac.org >> http://www.chac.org/index.html >>Computer History Association of California >> >> > > From gram at cnct.com Wed Feb 4 13:53:24 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: How much do 8" Floppies hold? References: <199802041629.IAA02087@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34D8C734.B5A147A6@cnct.com> PG Manney wrote: > > I keep an 8" floppy disk in the front of my store to amaze people ("Just > fold it twice and stick it in your drive...it holds a lot!") > > Just how much do (did?) they hold? (I'm sure there were different data > densities...just a range is all I want!) If I recall, when IBM first invented the things, they held right about 128k, single sided, single density. By the time I first dealt with them in the TRS-80 Model 2, they were packing 512k on a single-sided disk. Later, the Model 16/6000 Xenix systems were packing 1.25M on a double sided disk. Shortly after that, the format died in favor of 5.25HD. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 4 14:08:50 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: CP/M conversion In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980204101112.00c06bb0@pc> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, John Foust wrote: > >Does anyone know of a conversion utiliy which will convert files from a > >CP/M machine to Mac format? There is someone here willing to part with his > >Kaypro 4 but needs to convert his old files first. > > No one's mentioned the problem that you'll also need to convert > the *data* once you've moved the *files*. Which word processor > created the files, and which contemporary word processor do you > hope to use them in? You may need to revive the original machine > or something similar in order to re-save the documents in ASCII. If the data to be transferred is text from a wordprocessor program used on a Kaypro, it about 99:1 that the program was Wordstar, and conversion of WS document files should be quite easy. - don > Conversion programs might be available, but that might cost $$$. > Of course, you'll need to run 22Disk on a PC equipped with both > 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 floppies, then move the files to a 3 1/2 PC disk, and > the Mac can read them as-is. > > - John > Jefferson Computer Museum > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 4 14:11:59 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: How much do 8" Floppies hold? In-Reply-To: <199802041629.IAA02087@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, PG Manney wrote: > I keep an 8" floppy disk in the front of my store to amaze people ("Just > fold it twice and stick it in your drive...it holds a lot!") > > Just how much do (did?) they hold? (I'm sure there were different data > densities...just a range is all I want!) > > manney In rather general terms, from 241k for SSSD to 1.2mb for DSDD. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From go at ao.com Wed Feb 4 14:20:54 1998 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: How much do 8" Floppies hold? In-Reply-To: <34D8C734.B5A147A6@cnct.com> References: <199802041629.IAA02087@mxu3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199802042023.MAA31923@office.ao.com> To add further rumor to this data stream... "Way back when" I first ran into 8 inch floppies, I *heard* the size chosen by IBM was based upon the need for a single floppy to be able to replace a "box" of punched cards (choose your variety - 80 or 96). So the need was to support around 2000 "records" per disk (77 tracks * 26 sectors per track = 2002.) And a "record" of 128 bytes could hold an entire card image with ease. Never substantiated this rumor, but it sounded good, anyway. Gary. At 02:53 PM 2/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >PG Manney wrote: >> >> I keep an 8" floppy disk in the front of my store to amaze people ("Just >> fold it twice and stick it in your drive...it holds a lot!") >> >> Just how much do (did?) they hold? (I'm sure there were different data >> densities...just a range is all I want!) > >If I recall, when IBM first invented the things, they held right about >128k, single sided, single density. By the time I first dealt with them >in the TRS-80 Model 2, they were packing 512k on a single-sided disk. >Later, the Model 16/6000 Xenix systems were packing 1.25M on a double >sided disk. Shortly after that, the format died in favor of 5.25HD. >-- >Ward Griffiths >Dylan: How many years must some people exist, > before they're allowed to be free? >WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", > they'll never be free. > From donm at cts.com Wed Feb 4 14:30:37 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <01bd3191$382045e0$6df438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > Well, since we're on this subject... how can I resist once more > mentioning... > > Slide Rule Trading Post > http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/ > > On my site you will find a link to JavaSlide on the main menu. That's a > JAVA slide rule I wrote some while back, so you can reminisc even if you > can't find your old faithful. Its quite good, actually. > > There's a society called the Oughtred society, with around 400+ members. > Each devoted to their slide rule collection. I know of some people with > 700+ units. Me, I have 30, including a 7 foot long Pickett classroom rule. > > Cheers > Andrew With all of this dialogue about slide rules, I am appalled to note that Pickett & Eckell is the only brand name mentioned. Am I the only person to have been brought up with a Keuffel & Esser ivory covered mahogany rule? Also, what was the name of the manufacturer who made a bamboo core rule? - don > -----Original Message----- > From: Allison J Parent > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 4:22 AM > Subject: Re: Slipping sticks > > > > > > ><>"Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here ha > ><>his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? > > > >I have my 10" white aluminum pickett handy and grab it when a quick > >"good to three places" answer will do. I also use a E6B which is a > >circular aircraft slide rule for time, speed, distance, fuel use and > >wind correction. That one is in the plane as I'm absolutely certain > >it works as the calculator version of the E6B allways seems to need a > >new battery. > > > >Allison > > > > > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From adavie at mad.scientist.com Wed Feb 4 14:33:32 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Slipping sticks Message-ID: <01bd31ac$28b61740$6df438cb@nostromo> Sun Hemmi, of course. >With all of this dialogue about slide rules, I am appalled to note that >Pickett & Eckell is the only brand name mentioned. Am I the only person >to have been brought up with a Keuffel & Esser ivory covered mahogany >rule? Also, what was the name of the manufacturer who made a bamboo core >rule? > - don From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Feb 4 14:52:02 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: How much do 8" Floppies hold? In-Reply-To: <199802042023.MAA31923@office.ao.com> from "Gary Oliver" at Feb 4, 98 12:20:54 pm Message-ID: <9802042052.AA20972@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1735 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980204/d32a6e81/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Feb 4 15:01:51 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes Message-ID: <19980204210151.6747.qmail@hotmail.com> First of all, did MS Xenix run on PC hardware? Secondly, was there ever a Windows NT 1.0 and 2.0? How did they compare to a cheap version of UNIX? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From engine at chac.org Wed Feb 4 15:03:51 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Slipping sticks In-Reply-To: References: <01bd3191$382045e0$6df438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980204130351.0105d100@pop.batnet.com> At 12:30 2/4/98 -0800, Don wrote: >With all of this dialogue about slide rules, I am appalled to note that >Pickett & Eckel is the only brand name mentioned. Am I the only person >to have been brought up with a Keuffel & Esser ivory covered mahogany >rule? Not quite "brought up with," but that's what I have now. It was originally my father's. Certainly I didn't mean to slight K+E, who made not only slipsticks, but exceptionally fine drafting tools of many kinds. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From jruschme at exit109.com Wed Feb 4 15:27:37 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes In-Reply-To: <19980204210151.6747.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980204162737.007fe300@hiway1.exit109.com> At 01:01 pm 2/4/98 PST, you wrote: >First of all, did MS Xenix run on PC hardware? IIRC, no. By that time, it was SCO XENIX. (Ignoring the fact that Microsoft developed the core OS and was a major stockhold in SCO.) >Secondly, was there ever a Windows NT 1.0 and 2.0? How did they compare >to a cheap version of UNIX? No, the first version was 3.1. Outwardly, very similar to Windows 3.1. <<>> From brian at jhu.edu Wed Feb 4 15:33:19 1998 From: brian at jhu.edu (Brian Harrington) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes In-Reply-To: <19980204210151.6747.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980204163319.02dff540@musicbox.mse.jhu.edu> At 01:01 PM 2/4/98 -0800, you wrote: >First of all, did MS Xenix run on PC hardware? Yep. That was the point. :-) Although I have heard of a PDP-11 implementation as well. >Secondly, was there ever a Windows NT 1.0 and 2.0? How did they compare >to a cheap version of UNIX? Nope. It started at 3.1, which was pretty darn bad, compared to anything except regular Win 3.1. -- Brian -- Brian Harrington Digital Knowledge Center Johns Hopkins University brian@jhu.edu From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Feb 4 15:37:13 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Altair 8800b + drive alignment Message-ID: <199802042137.AA28874@world.std.com> Texas Instruments was naming some of their calculators "SR" (for Slide <>Rule) up until the mid-80's, at least. My first one was the SR-10...the <>"wedge". $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first? Not by a long shot. The first was in late '71 and went for about $140 (8bigit 4banger). I had one going into EE school. Allison From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Wed Feb 4 15:38:39 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB207BC839A@red-65-msg.dns.microsoft.com> First of all, did MS Xenix run on PC hardware? Yes, 286 and above as I recall. Introduced August 1984. Secondly, was there ever a Windows NT 1.0 and 2.0? In a sense, this was OS/2. OS/2 1.x was a cooperative venture between Microsoft and IBM, with the majority of the OS/2 core designed by MS architect Gordon Letwin (ref: the 80s book _Inside OS/2_ by Letwin, MS Press). The first version of Windows NT, 3.1, arose from a difference of opinion between Microsoft and IBM over the future of advanced operating systems; a difference of opinion created by the huge unanticipated success of Windows 3.0. After the Win3.0 release, IBM and Microsoft development paths diverged, with IBM focusing on OS/2 2.x, and Microsoft on Windows 3.x. Both continued work on their 3.0 releases of advanced operating systems, which became OS/2 Warp and Windows NT respectively. Kai My opinions not Microsoft's, etc. > -----Original Message----- > From: Max Eskin [SMTP:maxeskin@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 1:02 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Microsoft OSes > > First of all, did MS Xenix run on PC hardware? > Secondly, was there ever a Windows NT 1.0 and 2.0? How did they compare > to a cheap version of UNIX? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Feb 4 16:07:49 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes, contd. Message-ID: <19980204220750.6095.qmail@hotmail.com> Ok, if Xenix runs on PCs, does anyone have a copy they could send me? (Piracy won't work, I want the manuals as well) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Feb 4 16:07:04 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Interesting. Test 0 on uVAX 3100 Message-ID: <13329739696.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I type test 0 and it says it's booting from PRA0, then gives me some display I don't know what to do with. What's this for? ------- From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Feb 4 15:13:31 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Slipping sticks In-Reply-To: References: <01bd3191$382045e0$6df438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <199802042142.PAA10597@onyx.southwind.net> The last word in Japanese Slide Rules: \ | / HEMMI \ | / O O They also Private Labeled for POST . . . . Jeff > With all of this dialogue about slide rules, I am appalled to note that > Pickett & Eckell is the only brand name mentioned. Am I the only person > to have been brought up with a Keuffel & Esser ivory covered mahogany > rule? Also, what was the name of the manufacturer who made a bamboo core > rule? > - don > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Allison J Parent > > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > > > > Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 4:22 AM > > Subject: Re: Slipping sticks > > > > > > > > > > > ><>"Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here ha > > ><>his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? > > > > > >I have my 10" white aluminum pickett handy and grab it when a quick > > >"good to three places" answer will do. I also use a E6B which is a > > >circular aircraft slide rule for time, speed, distance, fuel use and > > >wind correction. That one is in the plane as I'm absolutely certain > > >it works as the calculator version of the E6B allways seems to need a > > >new battery. > > > > > >Allison > > > > > > > > > > > > donm@cts.com > *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* > Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives > Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society > Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. > Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 > *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* > see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj > > > From engine at chac.org Wed Feb 4 16:18:16 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Slipsticks and calculators and a clock In-Reply-To: <199802042137.AA28984@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980204141816.010842b0@pop.batnet.com> At 16:37 2/4/98 -0500, Allison wrote: ><>My first one was the SR-10...the ><>"wedge". $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first? > >Not by a long shot. The first was in late '71 and went for about $140 >(8digit 4banger). I had one going into EE school. But that WAS the SR-10. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From engine at chac.org Wed Feb 4 16:15:50 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes In-Reply-To: <19980204210151.6747.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980204141550.01083810@pop.batnet.com> At 13:01 2/4/98 PST, you wrote: >First of all, did MS Xenix run on PC hardware? Sure. XENIX was intended as a UN*X-style NOS that would allow a 286 AT to serve a flock of XT clients. It could use protected mode, IIRC. >Secondly, was there ever a Windows NT 1.0 and 2.0? How did they compare >to a cheap version of UNIX? NT prior to 3.x was called MS LAN Manager, and didn't compare particularly well to anything. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From mallison at konnections.com Wed Feb 4 16:41:12 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? References: <01bd31a5$0fa246e0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <34D8EE87.724F@konnections.com> PS/2 = MCA PS/1 = EISA Agreed?? -Mike Hotze wrote: > > Sorry... I don't know about such things. I knew about PS/2 parts > (keyboards, mice, etc.) then PS/2 SYSTEMS (last summer), then PS/1 systems > (about 2 months ago). So, other than the fact that they DO EXIST, I know > nothing about them. I'm guessing Microchannel, but I've never seen such as > system myself. > I don't know if he was willing to GIVE IT TO ME. Anyway, what's a > "garden variety" PS/1? What are un-garden variety PS/1's? > >If it's a garden-variety PS/1, strictly he should pay you to take it, but > >you can be a nice guy and let him give it to you. After all, that way it's > >off his hands. > > > >__________________________________________ > >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > > http://www.chac.org/index.html > >Computer History Association of California > > > > From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 4 13:10:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0 In-Reply-To: <199802041629.IAA23161@mxu2.u.washington.edu> from "PG Manney" at Feb 4, 98 11:11:56 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 669 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980204/4288bae6/attachment.ksh From mallison at konnections.com Wed Feb 4 16:51:15 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes References: <19980204210151.6747.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <34D8F0E3.5BDE@konnections.com> MS (later SCO {still MS licensed}) XENIX was designed and ran on i86 hardware. There was a version for the 8086, 80286 and 80386 before they merged into Sys V compatibility. They also had versions for M68k platforms, the best of which was a System III which ran on the Tandy 6000, an excellent platform. Xenix in its many manifestations was probably THE best Unix ever on a PC. The only difference nowadays is the ability of the Free Unixen to run the X Window System. Xenix is about as bullet proof as an M1 tank. I don't know that there were ever releases of Win NT, called Win NT before 3.0/3.1 I believe they picked up the #s on the market due to Windows being in versions 3.0 and 3.1 at the time..... that could just be a rumor, though. NT is a marginal OS but no where near as standard and portable as Free Unix. Also, the window system on NT is too close to the OS unlike X which is merely another process... That's my view.... -Mike Allison Max Eskin wrote: > > First of all, did MS Xenix run on PC hardware? > Secondly, was there ever a Windows NT 1.0 and 2.0? How did they compare > to a cheap version of UNIX? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From mallison at konnections.com Wed Feb 4 16:58:21 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Slipsticks and calculators and a clock References: <199802042137.AA28984@world.std.com> Message-ID: <34D8F28D.3A28@konnections.com> I can't believe I'm posting to this thread. There's a Burroughs electronic calculator 1940/50s vintage, on auction nearby. It's a real Difference Engine with power. It looks like a huge mechanical adding machine with a large motor attached and a typewriter printout. You even get to see the wheels and gears turn behind a glass door. First compuer I ever saw for sale leaking oil... -Mike Allison J Parent wrote: > > <>Texas Instruments was naming some of their calculators "SR" (for Slide > <>Rule) up until the mid-80's, at least. My first one was the SR-10...the > <>"wedge". $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first? > > Not by a long shot. The first was in late '71 and went for about $140 > (8bigit 4banger). I had one going into EE school. > > Allison From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 4 12:32:03 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:50 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) In-Reply-To: <34D7F836.5DBC7394@cnct.com> from "Ward Donald Griffiths III" at Feb 4, 98 00:10:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 522 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980204/560a0dce/attachment.ksh From mallison at konnections.com Wed Feb 4 17:02:00 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes References: <3.0.5.32.19980204141550.01083810@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <34D8F368.2222@konnections.com> There was Xenix/86 for XTs and IBM even sold Xenix under license for the XTs as well... -Mike Kip Crosby wrote: > > At 13:01 2/4/98 PST, you wrote: > >First of all, did MS Xenix run on PC hardware? > > Sure. XENIX was intended as a UN*X-style NOS that would allow a 286 AT to > serve a flock of XT clients. It could use protected mode, IIRC. > > >Secondly, was there ever a Windows NT 1.0 and 2.0? How did they compare > >to a cheap version of UNIX? > > NT prior to 3.x was called MS LAN Manager, and didn't compare particularly > well to anything. > __________________________________________ > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html > Computer History Association of California From mallison at konnections.com Wed Feb 4 17:03:59 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes, contd. References: <19980204220750.6095.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <34D8F3DF.4886@konnections.com> I have Xenix/AT, since 87. I was going to sell it once, no you couldn't offer me enough. Wish I had Xenix/86 as well. I passed up 3 times the chance for full versions.... -Mike Max Eskin wrote: > > Ok, if Xenix runs on PCs, does anyone have a copy they could send me? > (Piracy won't work, I want the manuals as well) > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 4 13:04:44 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Altair 8800b + drive alignment In-Reply-To: <01bd316e$a4515880$6df438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Feb 5, 98 00:13:10 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2448 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980204/896ef942/attachment.ksh From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Feb 4 12:22:24 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? In-Reply-To: <01bd31a5$0fa246e0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <199802042315.SAA04217@mail.cgocable.net> > Sorry... I don't know about such things. I knew about PS/2 parts > (keyboards, mice, etc.) then PS/2 SYSTEMS (last summer), then PS/1 systems > (about 2 months ago). So, other than the fact that they DO EXIST, I know > nothing about them. I'm guessing Microchannel, but I've never seen such as > system myself. > I don't know if he was willing to GIVE IT TO ME. Anyway, what's a > "garden variety" PS/1? What are un-garden variety PS/1's? > >If it's a garden-variety PS/1, strictly he should pay you to take it, but > >you can be a nice guy and let him give it to you. After all, that way it's > >off his hands. > > > >__________________________________________ > >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > > http://www.chac.org/index.html > >Computer History Association of California > > > > Hi Hotze! Make certain you HAVE the expansion box as well and have monitor checked for rotten capacitors and fan is still healthy because this monitor is also power supply for that CPU box. Expansion box help to bridge yours with an real IDE ata hd on isa card. All PS/1 are ISA in design which I can't believe that IBM would make this 44pin IDE on board nonstandard pinout fashion. Many hard drives were blown by poor quality control. :( Please find out about this hack as I like to play with PS/1 series as well when I get one in future. Thanks! Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Feb 4 17:15:10 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: NEWS FLASH! BILL GATES HIT IN FACE WITH PIE! Message-ID: <13329752093.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> See http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9802/04/belgium.gates.ap They even have video! This is, by FAR the best thing to happen this week! Make that this MONTH! or this YEAR! ------- From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Feb 4 12:29:33 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? In-Reply-To: <34D8EE87.724F@konnections.com> Message-ID: <199802042322.SAA05892@mail.cgocable.net> > PS/2 = MCA > PS/1 = EISA PS/1 was idea of "value" read: stripped down, oddball machines based on ISA design with connector conpirecy add as side dish! And, no memory parity at all! This is why the value bottomed out so rapidly when I traded some parts for a PS/2 2011-M01 stock config but once again in short time again it's gone again to a guy who only needs basic pc. PS/1 carried through a bit for few years then gone that ended in a reasonably decent desktop boxes with fairly standard parts. Jason D. > > Agreed?? > > -Mike > > Hotze wrote: > > > > Sorry... I don't know about such things. I knew about PS/2 parts > > (keyboards, mice, etc.) then PS/2 SYSTEMS (last summer), then PS/1 systems > > (about 2 months ago). So, other than the fact that they DO EXIST, I know > > nothing about them. I'm guessing Microchannel, but I've never seen such as > > system myself. > > I don't know if he was willing to GIVE IT TO ME. Anyway, what's a > > "garden variety" PS/1? What are un-garden variety PS/1's? > > >If it's a garden-variety PS/1, strictly he should pay you to take it, but > > >you can be a nice guy and let him give it to you. After all, that way it's > > >off his hands. > > > > > >__________________________________________ > > >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > > > http://www.chac.org/index.html > > >Computer History Association of California > > > > > > > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Feb 4 17:09:53 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980204141550.01083810@pop.batnet.com> References: <19980204210151.6747.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199802042331.RAA28798@onyx.southwind.net> > Sure. XENIX was intended as a UN*X-style NOS that would allow a 286 AT to > serve a flock of XT clients. It could use protected mode, IIRC. > > >Secondly, was there ever a Windows NT 1.0 and 2.0? How did they compare > >to a cheap version of UNIX? > > NT prior to 3.x was called MS LAN Manager, and didn't compare particularly > well to anything. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Boy, you got that right! It wasn't even better than 3Com 3+Share (and that was MS-DOs based)! I lost alot of nights sleep (and almost my shirt!) trying to keep a Lan Mangler 1.1 system up and running. It was truly suckful at best . . . Jeff > __________________________________________ > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html > Computer History Association of California > > > From adam at merlin.net.au Tue Feb 3 18:44:15 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (adam@merlin.net.au) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Looking for Melbourne collector Message-ID: <199802042343.KAA20215@arthur.merlin.net.au> Hi! I was just offered (possibly at a small cost - we didn't discuss any prices) a very large collection of Atari computers (800, 800xl, etc), plus manuals, books, software, peripherals and everything else you can probably imagine. However, I already have four Ataris of different sorts, so I thought someone else might appreciate it more (although, if you do, I may be interested in a couple of items *grin*). Anyway, as the collection is in Melboune I thought it might be of the most interest to a Melbourne collector, and I don't know any. Is anyone interested? Let me know and I can pass the phone number on to you. Adam. From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Feb 4 12:42:32 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) In-Reply-To: <9801038865.AA886555813@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199802042352.SAA08771@smtp.interlog.com> On 3 Feb 98 at 17:22, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: snip > > > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks like > > EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton Utes and it > > was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear characters. > > > > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it took two > > coupled long cards to run the video... > > > > -Mike > > No, it isn't PGA. (Although most of the chips on the cards are likely > to be PGAs, in IBM custom metal cans, as I recall...) > > The IBM 5272, the 3270PC display, was a very nice monitor. I don't know > the pixel resolution, but I'd guess at 800 x 400. Unfortunately, AFAIK, > it only did 8 colours. > > The 3270PC display card did TEXT MODES ONLY - it was aimed at emulating > the 3279 terminal. You could buy two add-on cards for it that went in > the slots either side in the motherboard. > > 1. The PS card. This provided emulation of the Programmed Symbols > option on the 3279. Very nice graphics, but only as a terminal, not as > a PC (although presumably you could have written PC drivers for it...) > > 2. The APA card. This provided support of the All Points Addressable > modes of the CGA. These CGA modes were displayed in the top lefthand > corner of the screen. And the only 8 colours reduced the capability > somewhat as well. > > It looked very good, but AFAIK IBM never supported it properly. Pity. > snip > But your description of the 3270PC sounds like you've got only one of PS > and APA, alas. > > Hope this helps > > Philip. > I've had a 5272 -23 monitor stashed for some time. Was never able to get it working on an XT trying various standard cards and drivers, altho it did display jumbled-up color lines so I figured it must be the driver. IBM wouldn't/couldn't offer me any help. From the above, it appears that I would need a 3270pc display card and one of two add-on cards. If I was fortunate enough to find these would it work on an XT ? Also I pulled an IBM DM12n501 monitor out of a dumpster. No power cord , just a 15 pin female connector . I surmise it's some sort of dumb terminal. So before I dump it any idea on what it is ? ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Wed Feb 4 17:58:24 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes Message-ID: <51194C00BD39CF11839000805F385DB207BC842D@red-65-msg.dns.microsoft.com> > -----Original Message----- > From: Kip Crosby [SMTP:engine@chac.org] > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 2:16 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Microsoft OSes > > NT prior to 3.x was called MS LAN Manager, and didn't compare particularly > well to anything. > Hmm, couple of misconceptions there. First off, LAN Manager was a network product, not an operating system. LanMan Server ran on top of OS/2 1.x, and LanMan clients were available for MS-DOS and OS/2. LAN Manager 1.x was an OEM product and was not sold by Microsoft. It was available as 3Com 3+Open, IBM LAN Server, etc. LAN Manager 1.x was a first generation product, but LAN Manager 2.x performed well and was the first network product to capture significant market share away from NetWare, where many others had previously failed. LAN Manager 2.x was also the first network server sold directly by Microsoft. Kai From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Feb 4 18:04:37 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes Message-ID: <199802050004.AA26895@world.std.com> <>My first one was the SR-10...the <><>"wedge". $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first? <> <>Not by a long shot. The first was in late '71 and went for about $140 <>(8digit 4banger). I had one going into EE school. < Message-ID: <34D909A7.8BF@konnections.com> Assuming that all this is right (and I have no way of knowing as I'm using the 3270pc), I bet you could find VGA, EGA or CGA cards which could run a 3270 mode or a 5272 mode if told. It's a question of knowing what to ask and the software or firmware knowing. Someone had to be dumb enough to include it. Otherwise, what do you want for the 5272 $$? -Mike Lawrence Walker wrote: > > On 3 Feb 98 at 17:22, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > snip > > > > > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks like > > > EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton Utes and it > > > was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear characters. > > > > > > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it took two > > > coupled long cards to run the video... > > > > > > -Mike > > > > No, it isn't PGA. (Although most of the chips on the cards are likely > > to be PGAs, in IBM custom metal cans, as I recall...) > > > > The IBM 5272, the 3270PC display, was a very nice monitor. I don't know > > the pixel resolution, but I'd guess at 800 x 400. Unfortunately, AFAIK, > > it only did 8 colours. > > > > The 3270PC display card did TEXT MODES ONLY - it was aimed at emulating > > the 3279 terminal. You could buy two add-on cards for it that went in > > the slots either side in the motherboard. > > > > 1. The PS card. This provided emulation of the Programmed Symbols > > option on the 3279. Very nice graphics, but only as a terminal, not as > > a PC (although presumably you could have written PC drivers for it...) > > > > 2. The APA card. This provided support of the All Points Addressable > > modes of the CGA. These CGA modes were displayed in the top lefthand > > corner of the screen. And the only 8 colours reduced the capability > > somewhat as well. > > > > It looked very good, but AFAIK IBM never supported it properly. Pity. > > > snip > > > But your description of the 3270PC sounds like you've got only one of PS > > and APA, alas. > > > > Hope this helps > > > > Philip. > > > I've had a 5272 -23 monitor stashed for some time. Was never able to > get it working on an XT trying various standard cards and drivers, > altho it did display jumbled-up color lines so I figured it must be > the driver. IBM wouldn't/couldn't offer me any help. > From the above, it appears that I would need a 3270pc display card > and one of two add-on cards. If I was fortunate enough to find these > would it work on an XT ? > > Also I pulled an IBM DM12n501 monitor out of a dumpster. No > power cord , just a 15 pin female connector . I surmise it's some > sort of dumb terminal. So before I dump it any idea on what it is ? > > ciao larry > lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From rector at christcom.net Wed Feb 4 20:32:19 1998 From: rector at christcom.net (Dan Rector) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? References: <01bd31a5$0fa246e0$LocalHost@hotze> <34D8EE87.724F@konnections.com> Message-ID: <34D924B2.2852@christcom.net> Mike Allison wrote: > > PS/2 = MCA > PS/1 = EISA > > Agreed?? > > -Mike > Not quite (at least for PS/2's). PS/2 models with a number lower than 50 (ie, mods 25, 30, 35, 40) have an ISA (or is it EISA?) bus. -- Dan Rector rector@usa.net From gram at cnct.com Wed Feb 4 18:43:37 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) References: Message-ID: <34D90B39.357F95EF@cnct.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > Especially from the experience of the AT&T (Olivetti) 6300 video > > interface using what looked liked a standard DB-25, but with one > > line carrying 70vdc to power the monitor. A guy with a standard > > Are you sure about that 70V? I've repaired Olivetti M24 PSUs (what we > call the AT&T6300), and there's only the +5V and +/-12V outputs. Now, 12V > is present on the monitor connector, and it would certainly kill a > Centronics interface, but I doubt very much if there's anything higher there. Well, that's what my hardware guy at the store said back when we got the news, back when I was still doing retail software support. I'll admit that I've never measured it myself nor owned one -- my AT&Ts are all 7300/3B1 series. If he told me wrong or made a mistake, it wouldn't be unique in my experience. I did see the CPU and printer in the store -- it looked like all of the magic smoke had escaped from both units. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From bwit at pobox.com Wed Feb 4 18:38:03 1998 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes Message-ID: <01BD319C.E640AF60@ppp-151-164-39-144.rcsntx.swbell.net> >First of all, did MS Xenix run on PC hardware? Yes. >Secondly, was there ever a Windows NT 1.0 and 2.0? How did they compare >to a cheap version of UNIX? No, the first Windows NT was V3.1 which matched the current shipping version of Windows at that time. IMHO it was not even close to any reasonable version of Unix but was/is much easier to configure. Regards, Bob From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Feb 4 18:42:03 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? Message-ID: there are many models of ps1 computers, that its hard to say. the first 2011/2121/2123 were of proprietary nature, and later ps1 types were just standard 486 pc types. later models had power management and suspend functions like laptops do. if its a 2011 or 2121 type make sure the monitor works, since the cpu gets it power from there. In a message dated 2/4/98 2:44:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, photze@batelco.com.bh writes: << I don't know if he was willing to GIVE IT TO ME. Anyway, what's a "garden variety" PS/1? What are un-garden variety PS/1's? >If it's a garden-variety PS/1, strictly he should pay you to take it, but >you can be a nice guy and let him give it to you. After all, that way it's >off his hands. >> From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Feb 4 18:44:15 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? Message-ID: In a message dated 2/4/98 5:38:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, mallison@konnections.com writes: << PS/2 = MCA PS/1 = EISA Agreed?? -Mike >> nope. ps/2=some ISA and mostly MCA ps/1=ISA From mallison at konnections.com Wed Feb 4 18:55:12 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? References: <01bd31a5$0fa246e0$LocalHost@hotze> <34D8EE87.724F@konnections.com> <34D924B2.2852@christcom.net> Message-ID: <34D90DF0.6FEA@konnections.com> Dan: I was more concerned about clarifying the PS/1 as EISA. I must admit I didn't know ANY PS/2s had (E)ISA. That's really interesting... -Mike Dan Rector wrote: > > Mike Allison wrote: > > > > PS/2 = MCA > > PS/1 = EISA > > > > Agreed?? > > > > -Mike > > > > Not quite (at least for PS/2's). PS/2 models with a number lower than > 50 (ie, mods 25, 30, 35, 40) have an ISA (or is it EISA?) bus. > > -- > Dan Rector > > rector@usa.net From bwit at pobox.com Wed Feb 4 18:50:59 1998 From: bwit at pobox.com (Bob Withers) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes Message-ID: <01BD319D.D69D4720@ppp-151-164-39-144.rcsntx.swbell.net> >The divergence from OS/2 and windows3.x was also influenced by MS getting >Cutler an OS heavy that created DEC RSX-11 and early VMS incantations. >the idea of NT was clean sheet 32bit OS with multitasking, multiprocessing >and inherant networking all of which were glueons for windows. OS/2 was >a different path from NT with a different base designer. It is interesting that many of the error messages in the pre V3.1 beta releases referred to OS/2. Maybe it was an almost clean room. bw From gram at cnct.com Wed Feb 4 19:04:33 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes References: <19980204210151.6747.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <34D91021.59DE044D@cnct.com> Max Eskin wrote: > > First of all, did MS Xenix run on PC hardware? MS Xenix never ran on much of anything, as Microsoft never made it an end-user product. Altos Xenix ran on Altos boxes (68k and x86), Tandy Xenix ran on TRS-80 Model 16 & Tandy 6000 (68k), SCO Xenix ran on x86 and the rather short-lived IBM Xenix ran on x86. Both IBM and SCO ports were available for the XT (512kb required), and were underwhelming. A TRS-80 16 with 256kb outperformed it due to the PC's memory architecture. I guess I shouldn't badmouth MS as much as I do, since Xenix is what got me hooked on Unix. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Feb 4 14:11:06 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? In-Reply-To: <34D90DF0.6FEA@konnections.com> Message-ID: <199802050104.UAA00646@mail.cgocable.net> > Dan: > > I was more concerned about clarifying the PS/1 as EISA. I must admit I > didn't know ANY PS/2s had (E)ISA. That's really interesting... Oh really? There is none such as *EISA* made BY IBM ever. Group of 7 snubbed IBM royalies nearly 10 yr ago required if other clone makers wants MCA and made Extended ISA standard instead. Not quite caught on either. Pretty good in servers but everything have changed since now. PCI is good bus and other one that works well is MCA. VLB appeared then vanished in short years because it was a just hardware kluge. Therefore no EISA in IBM machines. Only Either MCA, ISA and few valuepoints used VLB and newer machines used PCI. Far as I know for certain. Jason D. Snip! email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From bmpete at swbell.net Wed Feb 4 19:08:17 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: greetings In-Reply-To: <199802041529.HAA17022@mxu2.u.washington.edu> References: <199802041529.HAA17022@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34d90be4.991396@mail.swbell.net> On Tue, 3 Feb 1998 19:20:11 -0500, you said: >>the eminent slipsticker Andrew Davie wrote: > > > >"Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here has >his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? I have my old K&E in the closet; I took a one-hour class in '67, though I already knew how to use it. One thing I learned using a slide rule that calculator users seem to not get is a sense of order of magnitude of the answer. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From william at ans.net Wed Feb 4 19:06:55 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? In-Reply-To: <199802042322.SAA05892@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: > And, no memory parity at all! LARGE deal. PeeCees never could do memory error control properly! William Donzelli william@ans.net From mallison at konnections.com Wed Feb 4 19:20:33 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Microsoft OSes References: <19980204210151.6747.qmail@hotmail.com> <34D91021.59DE044D@cnct.com> Message-ID: <34D913E1.53BD@konnections.com> Ward: I must agree about Xenix/86. However, it was probably the best Unix there will ever be on an XT, which is a weak platform for Unix. I think the other good XT Unixen were licenses of SCO/MS and used their source. Microsoft, by the way, has had a dictatorial interest in SCO's Xenix until just a few days ago when a judge said SCO no longer HAD to include certain things MS insisted thay include over the years. See SCO's home page. -Mike Ward Donald Griffiths III wrote: > > MS Xenix never ran on much of anything, as Microsoft never made it > an end-user product. Altos Xenix ran on Altos boxes (68k and x86), > Tandy Xenix ran on TRS-80 Model 16 & Tandy 6000 (68k), SCO Xenix > ran on x86 and the rather short-lived IBM Xenix ran on x86. Both > IBM and SCO ports were available for the XT (512kb required), and > were underwhelming. A TRS-80 16 with 256kb outperformed it due to > the PC's memory architecture. I guess I shouldn't badmouth MS as > much as I do, since Xenix is what got me hooked on Unix. > -- > Ward Griffiths From red at bears.org Wed Feb 4 19:16:47 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? In-Reply-To: <199802050104.UAA00646@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 1998 jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > Therefore no EISA in IBM machines. Only Either MCA, ISA and few > valuepoints used VLB and newer machines used PCI. > > Far as I know for certain. Prepare to stand corrected. (: My primary PC uses an EISA/PCI dual pentium motherboard, OEMed by Micronics for IBM. The Micronics part number was M55Pe; the board has an IBM FRU number and even has a nifty full screen 640x400x16 VGA splash screen at bootup (right after the video card splash) that says "IBM PC Server". Nice board. A bit dated, now, but nice all the same. This is all well and dandy but wildly off topic so I'll ask what I'd need to install a floppy disk drive into my currently diskless TRS-80 Model III? I was four when my dad got his new (with 48k and a disk drive) and 11 when he sold it and about 14 before I really got into computers beyond simply being able to drive them and 20 when I picked up a 16k diskless model III at a thrift shop in Walla Walla and I'll just end this run-on sentence here. Suffice to say I have no idea what I'll need. I looked inside my model III and can't even figure how the goofy things mounted, as there seems to be no drive cage. ok r. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Feb 4 14:30:04 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? In-Reply-To: References: <199802042322.SAA05892@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199802050123.UAA05123@mail.cgocable.net> > > And, no memory parity at all! > > LARGE deal. PeeCees never could do memory error control properly! Not usually. I have seen few good designed machines go kooky when it finds out holding the non-parity memories even same to ones with user-selectable parity selection. Tis' true if you meant ECC parity but this is really OVERKILL in consumer machines that we're using. My machine is happily running for years on non-parity as long as the memory are top quality kind and cover by life-time warrenty if possible. Mac are doing that for years ever since first Apple II all the way to today's Mac PCI's. If some is very nervous expect to PAY MUCHO more and find some machines that is "1 or 2 steps out of date" designed for error-free operation used in server-level type. Far as I know you will not see that in consumer kind, find them in high-end motherboards in excess of $300 and up. Asus makes superb boards including dual and singles both equipped with either parity or ECC parity. No way with SuperMicro consistently used wasted space and long trace runs Yuk!, Tyan could not make a good boards that works with every parts even iteslf and likes to crash out so often and others far as I know. Jason D. > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Wed Feb 4 14:41:18 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? In-Reply-To: References: <199802050104.UAA00646@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199802050134.UAA07771@mail.cgocable.net> > On Wed, 4 Feb 1998 jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > > > Therefore no EISA in IBM machines. Only Either MCA, ISA and few > > valuepoints used VLB and newer machines used PCI. > > > > Far as I know for certain. > > Prepare to stand corrected. (: > > My primary PC uses an EISA/PCI dual pentium motherboard, OEMed by > Micronics for IBM. The Micronics part number was M55Pe; the board has an > IBM FRU number and even has a nifty full screen 640x400x16 VGA splash > screen at bootup (right after the video card splash) that says "IBM PC > Server". > > Nice board. A bit dated, now, but nice all the same. Great, but this is NOT IBM's make in a sense, this is brought and resold with VAR added to it inside a IBM made case but all hard drives, floppy drives, cables, etc etc are not IBM's. What guys meant were IBM did not make their own boards with EISA on it. Few days ago we saw the new machine badged IBM but inside is nary "typical IBM's touches inside" board was made by Aceropen using ALi chipset, no Triton chipset thro. On this we tried a presumed correct by "ibm vague user manual" (!!) using quality DIMM along with that 16mb DIMM on board, no go. :( So I would call this non-ibm motherboard based ibm branded machines as HIBM (Half IBM). Jason D. Snipped about tandy machine. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Wed Feb 4 20:32:19 1998 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: ALERT: Free tri-density tape drive needs rescue! Message-ID: <34e52475.355490608@mail.wizards.net> Those of you who have been dreaming of your own Kennedy 9400, take a look at this... -=-=- -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!WCG!news.oru.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.mathworks.com!mvb.saic.com!info-pdp11 From: Dan Lanciani Newsgroups: vmsnet.pdp-11 Subject: Kennedy 9400 tape drive available Message-ID: <199802040522.AAA06277@endor.das.harvard.edu> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:22:34 -0500 (EST) Organization: Info-Pdp11<==>Vmsnet.Pdp-11 Gateway X-Gateway-Source-Info: Mailing List Lines: 11 Xref: Supernews70 vmsnet.pdp-11:9192 I have a Kennedy 9400 drive here (Gloucester, MA) for the taking. This is a tri-density upright unit with formatted Pertec interface. It worked the last time I used it, but, as I look at it now, it appears that the backup battery on the CPU board has failed. It would likely be necessary to run through the calibration procedure after replacing the battery. (I recall doing the calibration before, so it must be in the manual. These drives have an RS232 port to control the diagnostics.) I also have an extra drive (with mechanical problems) for spare parts; they should probably go together. Dan Lanciani ddl@harvard.edu -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Feb 4 20:36:48 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Video connectors (was: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0)) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980204161530.3f5f362e@ricochet.net> >Now that you've said that -- how about a Centronics-type connector, with >the female end on the end of the monitor cable, and the male end recessed >into the card bracket, where it would just be another feature connector of >sorts? This exact combination, when used for parallel printers or external >SCSI, is almost indestructible. One problem with that is that the average centronics connector is wider (thicker?) than the standard PC slot allows for. I believe this may be true of Mac slots as well. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From yakowenk at cs.unc.edu Wed Feb 4 21:25:46 1998 From: yakowenk at cs.unc.edu (Bill Yakowenko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: EPROM programming voltages Message-ID: <199802050325.WAA07231@webern.cs.unc.edu> Can anyone point me to an on-line reference showing the necessary voltages for programming various EPROMs? I'm especially interested in the oldies-but-goodies: 2708, 2716, 2732, and 2764's. In particular, it seems some of them want 25v while others want only 21v, and I suspect that even the same chip number from different manufacturers may want different voltages. Thanks, Bill. From mallison at konnections.com Wed Feb 4 23:38:48 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Stuff, while we're at it... References: <199802031344.FAA25322@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34D95068.2207@konnections.com> Manney: Here's the bottom line on the Mac stuff: MAC Plus, good basic system w/key & mouse 1 - 4 meg of mem $10 MAC 512k, monitor fuzzy, but works free with Plus. External 400k drive for Mac $5 Shipping is looking like $12.00 Which totals out at: $27.00 Lemme know if you're on... If you want, you can send a personal check or MO to: Mike Allison 1175 East Canyon Rd #17 Ogden, UT 84404 5972 Thanks, Mike PG Manney wrote: > > Thanks. I'm in Ohio, 44857 > > As I understand it, you have a complete system, with a (fuzzy?) monitor? Is > there a HDD, or is that the bernoulli? Is there software? > > Thanks, > > manney@nwohio.com > > ---------- > > From: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > > To: Manney > > Subject: Re: Stuff, while we're at it... > > Date: Sunday, February 01, 1998 9:51 PM > > > > Manny: > > > > Sorry I haven't responded, I've been in Vegas since friday am. > > > > The MAC stuff is yours, if you desire. The only exception is the 5mb > > bernouli which was spoken for (but not yet taken) if that works out it's > > gone. I do have another 20MB bernouli, but I need the enclosure, you > > can have the drive though, if you like. > > > > Lemme know you're address and I'll check the shipping and send you back > > a total for your decision. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mike Allison > > > > PG Manney wrote: > > > > > > I'd be interested in the Mac stuff > > > > > > manney@nwohio.com From mallison at konnections.com Wed Feb 4 23:47:10 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Stuff, while we're at it...Please DISREGARD References: <199802031344.FAA25322@mxu1.u.washington.edu> <34D95068.2207@konnections.com> Message-ID: <34D9525E.993@konnections.com> Folks: Sorry, I accidently used the wrong return. It's late. Please disregard that. Or send me a postcard since you have my address.... Don't try this at home kids, we're trained professionals... -Mike Mike Allison wrote: > > Manney: > > Here's the bottom line on the Mac stuff: > From mallison at konnections.com Thu Feb 5 00:05:46 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: DG's computer museum Message-ID: <34D956BA.72C0@konnections.com> Data General has a neat "museum" of influentional systems. Find the personal computer section at: http://www.dg.com/about/html/microprocessors.html Here's the machines they feature (with pictures) MITS' Altair 8800 (1974) Apple II (1977) Tandy TRS-80 (1977) Osborne 1 (1981) IBM PC (1981) Compaq Transportable (1982) IBM PCjr (1983) Data General's DG/One (1984) Sun 3/50 workstation (1986) Data General's AViiON AV 9500 SMP server (1989) -Mike From mallison at konnections.com Thu Feb 5 01:17:01 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Xenix OS Message-ID: <34D9676C.6230@konnections.com> From the Microsoft Museum 1980 Microsoft Announces XENIX OS Microsoft announces Microsoft XENIX OS, a portable operating system for 16-bit microprocessors. It is an interactive, multi-user, multi-tasking system that will run on Intel 8086, Zilog Z8000, Motorola M68000, and DEC PDP-11 series. All of Microsoft's existing system software (COBOL, PASCAL, BASIC and DBMS) will be adapted to run under the XENIX system, and all existing software written for UNIX OS will be compatible as well. ? 1998 Microsoft Corporation. All Rights Reserved. From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Feb 5 08:19:56 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: 9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts Message-ID: <9801058867.AA886717641@compsci.powertech.co.uk> I had a trip down memory lane yesterday - I cleared a path to the filing cabinet and got out my old IBM glossy leaflets. As well as things like "IBM 3090 - the Base for Growth into the Nineties" I found a couple of things on the 9370 series. I also found some stuff on PC graphics platforms and 3270PCs (of which more in my next). > At 12:30 03-02-98 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: >> >>Just because the sticker says 30 amps does not mean it will draw that >>much! In general, those ratings are worst case (a fully blown system), and >>includes some safety factor (as well as some surge). > > Oh I already knew that, William. A 30A breaker works out fine to handle the > six 9332 DASD units (IBM's accronym for these type of hard disks for some > of you other observers), 9345 tape drive, rack power controllers and the > 9370-60 CPU. Ah. A 9375. Despite my joke and William's response, a 9375 model 60 has the highest power consumption of any in my catalogue, at 1.8kW - enough to heat a room, if not a house. (FWIW DASD = Direct Access Storage Device) If you are interested in operating systems, those listed for the model 60 were: VM/SP VSE/SP IX/370 (The AIX you were asking about) MVS (which won't run on the 9373 (model 20) or model 40.) There were also integrated packages carrying their own environment based on VM, which was then called VM/IS > Can't recall exactly, but total draw was about 11 to 12 amps or so when I Sounds about right. 11A at 230V is 2.5 kVA, which will do 1.8kW at 0.7 power factor (typical for a rectified mains power supply) with ease. Still dumped alotta heat! :-) We got cheap electricity in this town. $0.036 per KWH vs. about $0.08 or more per KWH outside of the area. Even $0.08 is less than we pay (typically $0.11). But we can get dual tariff systems which charge us the same peak rate and less than half that off-peak for heating etc. But I digress. Can't wait to work more with the system later this year if the wife has no additional remodeling in the new house for me to do :-( Have fun! Philip. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Feb 5 08:37:49 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Ehehe... I've scanned my KK8-A board! Pictures online! Message-ID: <13329920059.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I mean, a paper is flat, and a board is (mostly) flat too, so why wouldn't I be able to scan it? Answer is, I can. It works fine. The only bug is the board is bigger than the scanner... I'll be retryin throughout the day, you can see the pictures at http://209.174.127.164/pdp8 Tell me what you think! Oh, and I wouldn't try this with anything with EPROMs on it... :) ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Feb 5 08:44:07 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Change that URL... (pdp8a CPU picture) Message-ID: <13329921205.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> You will have to append a / to that... (So it becomes http://209.174.127.164/pdp8/ ) Sorry... ------- From william at ans.net Thu Feb 5 08:48:35 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: 9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts In-Reply-To: <9801058867.AA886717641@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: > Sounds about right. 11A at 230V is 2.5 kVA, which will do 1.8kW at 0.7 power > factor (typical for a rectified mains power supply) with ease. > >> Still dumped alotta heat! :-) We got cheap electricity in this town.$0.036 >> per KWH vs. about $0.08 or more per KWH outside of the area. > > Even $0.08 is less than we pay (typically $0.11). But we can get dual > tariff systems which charge us the same peak rate and less than half > that off-peak for heating etc. But I digress. This sounds like a perfect time to get on my soapbox concerning big computers and electricity! Lets say you have this wonderful IBM mainframe and wish to use it. When you add up all of the DASDs, maybe a terminal or two, perhaps you end up with a 3 kW system. Now run that value thru your electric bill. I think that you will find that a night of hacking on your system will cost less than a ticket to a movie! And I must admit that I am suprised that the CPU sucks so much. I suppose if some of the memory was taken out, it would be quite a bit less. My Sun-4/280 draws a hell of a bunch, but it has 32 megs of 41256 DRAMS, each one sucking a little bit. Just removing 24 megs from it drops the power consumption greatly. William Donzelli william@ans.net From archive at navix.net Thu Feb 5 10:30:07 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: DSK file format References: <199802050342.VAA28207@iac11.navix.net> Message-ID: <34D9E90E.5843F2DF@navix.net> Nickolas & everyone else on this thread: Again, I _really_ disagree with this tip. It shouldn't make any difference as to the name. I renamed the files to .dsk and it really didn't make any difference at all, for me anyway. Just wanted to reiterate that myself and many, many other users have not had this problem either. My $.02 CORD COSLOR Nickolas Marentes wrote: > Thanks Paul! I will add this tip onto my Web Page. Could solve many > people's problems. > > > I had some problems using the wonderful files I downloaded from > > Nickolas' web page as well, initially. I was downloading the file under > > MS-DOS, then renaming from *.zip to *.dsk, then porting it to the CoCo > > using the emulator. Couldn't get it to dshrink in any format (ASCII > > thru binary). > > > > Then it occurred to me that by renaming the file in MS-DOS, I was > > slightly changing the contents (the first few bytes of the file, I > > imagine), thus making it unuseable. The solution was to port it over > > with the .ZIP extension as a binary executable, then rename it under > > CoCo BASIC. Worked like a charm. -- _________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net | | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | |-----------------------------------------| | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421-0308 | | (402) 872- 3272 | |_________________________________________| From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Feb 5 09:51:46 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) Message-ID: <9801058867.AA886723213@compsci.powertech.co.uk> The only piece of useful information about the 3270PC displays I could find yesterday was the resolution - 720 x 512 x 8 for the small graphics display, which I am now fairly convinced was a 5272. I don't know the scanning rates I'm afraid. Larry, you can get text on it with only one of the 3270PC display cards, which will indeed work in an XT. I'm curious that 720 x 512 (or 800 x 512) was so uncommon - it seems a logical (-ish) step up from 640 x 400. I was going to go on at length here about the PGC (PGA) and its display, since the marketing leaflet surprisingly gives a lot of info, right down to the connector pinout. But Tony got there first. Philip. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Assuming that all this is right (and I have no way of knowing as I'm using the 3270pc), I bet you could find VGA, EGA or CGA cards which could run a 3270 mode or a 5272 mode if told. It's a question of knowing what to ask and the software or firmware knowing. Someone had to be dumb enough to include it. Otherwise, what do you want for the 5272 $$? -Mike Lawrence Walker wrote: > > On 3 Feb 98 at 17:22, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > snip > > > > > I'm sure my 3270pc handles a "better" quality CGA. It just looks like > > > EGA, thought it was... It was running a version of Norton Utes and it > > > was just beautiful turquoise blue set and clear characters. > > > > > > I'd have to think this was better than CGA, especially since it took two > > > coupled long cards to run the video... > > > > > > -Mike > > > > No, it isn't PGA. (Although most of the chips on the cards are likely > > to be PGAs, in IBM custom metal cans, as I recall...) > > > > The IBM 5272, the 3270PC display, was a very nice monitor. I don't know > > the pixel resolution, but I'd guess at 800 x 400. Unfortunately, AFAIK, > > it only did 8 colours. > > > > The 3270PC display card did TEXT MODES ONLY - it was aimed at emulating > > the 3279 terminal. You could buy two add-on cards for it that went in > > the slots either side in the motherboard. > > > > 1. The PS card. This provided emulation of the Programmed Symbols > > option on the 3279. Very nice graphics, but only as a terminal, not as > > a PC (although presumably you could have written PC drivers for it...) > > > > 2. The APA card. This provided support of the All Points Addressable > > modes of the CGA. These CGA modes were displayed in the top lefthand > > corner of the screen. And the only 8 colours reduced the capability > > somewhat as well. > > > > It looked very good, but AFAIK IBM never supported it properly. Pity. > > > snip > > > But your description of the 3270PC sounds like you've got only one of PS > > and APA, alas. > > > > Hope this helps > > > > Philip. > > > I've had a 5272 -23 monitor stashed for some time. Was never able to > get it working on an XT trying various standard cards and drivers, > altho it did display jumbled-up color lines so I figured it must be > the driver. IBM wouldn't/couldn't offer me any help. > From the above, it appears that I would need a 3270pc display card > and one of two add-on cards. If I was fortunate enough to find these > would it work on an XT ? > > Also I pulled an IBM DM12n501 monitor out of a dumpster. No > power cord , just a 15 pin female connector . I surmise it's some > sort of dumb terminal. So before I dump it any idea on what it is ? > > ciao larry > lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Feb 5 09:03:31 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Altair 8800b + drive alignment Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980205090331.00c10af0@pc> Acrobat PDF versions of the Shugart SA800/801 Diskette Storage Drive Maintenance Manual can be found online at: This is the page of the Internet Techincal Documentation Archive, a project with the admirable aim of securing official permissions to scan and post the documentation of archaic computer equipment. They have some Terak documents online, but not much else. If you can think of other documents that might be able to be posted in this fashion, please drop them a note! They'll do the work. You'll have to send the scans or paper to Edinburgh, though. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Feb 5 09:04:37 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Development, round II Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980205090437.00c11100@pc> "Andrew Davie" wrote: >Well, since we're on this subject... how can I resist once more >mentioning... Slide Rule Trading Post Well, a fellow winner of the "Geek Site Of The Day" Award. I mention your site on my site, the Terak Museum, which won on October 16, 1996. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Thu Feb 5 10:03:25 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: How much do 8" Floppies hold? Message-ID: <9801058867.AA886723933@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Ward (and others) wrote: > > I keep an 8" floppy disk in the front of my store to amaze people ("Just > > fold it twice and stick it in your drive...it holds a lot!") > > > > Just how much do (did?) they hold? (I'm sure there were different data > > densities...just a range is all I want!) > > If I recall, when IBM first invented the things, they held right about > 128k, single sided, single density. By the time I first dealt with them > in the TRS-80 Model 2, they were packing 512k on a single-sided disk. > Later, the Model 16/6000 Xenix systems were packing 1.25M on a double > sided disk. Shortly after that, the format died in favor of 5.25HD. Fair summary, except that I'd have said 'the format lives on in 5.25" HD' - IBM introduced the HD 5.25 inch diskettes to behave as much as possible like 8 inch ones, even though that meant different magnetic properties of the oxide from conventional 5.25". And IBM had enough clout that this displaced the existing 80 track formats right out of the market. IBM PCs that have HD drives have an 8 inch disk controller controlling them. So in summary, an 8 inch disk holds as much as a 5.25 inch one, although older formats held less... Now, does anyone know how much a 14 inch floppy held? (it was 14, wasn't it?) For that matter, who else has ever seen one? We had a drive at IBM which was bigger than the PC it plugged into. The disk (I only ever saw the one!) was in a white card envelope instead of the conventional black plastic one, and the slot where the head went in was along one of the diagonals, but otherwise I remember blank-all about it. Philip. From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Feb 5 10:48:11 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: greetings In-Reply-To: <34d90be4.991396@mail.swbell.net> References: <199802041529.HAA17022@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <199802051708.LAA25880@onyx.southwind.net> > > >>the eminent slipsticker Andrew Davie wrote: > > > > > > > >"Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here has > >his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? > > I have my old K&E in the closet; I took a one-hour class in '67, > though I already knew how to use it. One thing I learned using a slide > rule that calculator users seem to not get is a sense of order of > magnitude of the answer. > _______________ > > Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net > Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, > Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. > I still have my HEMMI. I used to have a K+E Log-Log, but I've since lost it. I learned to use it in 1976 (it was a requirement for 'Introduction to Scientific Method'). I still know how to use it (I think). BTW, my instructor used a *HUGE* yellow wooden Pickett in the classroom (like the one that one of you mentioned). I've never seen one that size before or since. Jeff From dastar at wco.com Thu Feb 5 11:46:23 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: CP/M conversion In-Reply-To: <9802041642.AA18610@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 1998, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Very stupid netiquette question of mine: on Usenet, it is common > to simply refer askers of Frequently Asked Questions to the FAQ. It > seems very backwards to me that this isn't done very often on the > classiccmp mailing list - most of the posts end up talking about something > that is already well-addressed and, frankly, quite boring. Is there > something in the classiccmp charter that I missed? Am I being completely > out-of-line to refer folks to resources on Usenet or elsewhere on the > Web? I don't think so. But on the other hand, sometimes its nice for the students in Computer Collecting 101 to get involved in a full discussion of a certain subject with those who are knowledgeable on it. It helps them to learn. I think its subjective. If we've just gone through a full discussion on how to convert CP/M files to another format and someone comes in and asks the same question within the next 6 weeks, then maybe its time to refer them to the FAQ. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Feb 5 12:14:14 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? Message-ID: <13329959455.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> About how much would it cost? (Assuming you can get them...) ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Feb 5 12:31:48 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? In-Reply-To: <13329959455.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Feb 5, 98 10:14:14 am Message-ID: <9802051831.AA07659@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 888 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980205/470a0541/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Feb 5 12:43:47 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? In-Reply-To: <9802051831.AA07659@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13329964833.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Not really, I just have the stupid idea that I can rewire one of these useless RH11 backplanes to make an Omnibus. I have the directions in the manuals saying how Omnibus is wired. All I'd have to do is strip the existing wires and scratch the etches on the pcb, then rewrap it. I think... ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Feb 5 12:44:28 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? In-Reply-To: <9802051831.AA07659@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13329964960.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Oh, and Yes, I know that'd take forever. And be really hard. But I'm gonna try anyway. ------- From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Feb 5 12:57:17 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? In-Reply-To: <13329964833.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Feb 5, 98 10:43:47 am Message-ID: <9802051857.AA08582@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 612 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980205/88ab1aaa/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Feb 5 13:08:06 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:51 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? In-Reply-To: <9802051857.AA08582@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13329969262.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Probably. I'm going to take a razor and slice all the traces, and the take a VOM to all the pins to make sure there isn't anything I missed (All the pins are seperate). Then I'll wirewrap the pins in the way I want them. Then, I just have to dig up a console interface and a MOS RAM board, and I can (maybe) put this 8A CPU to use. I figure I can modify a PC power suply to do 5v and 15v (Just adjust the 12V supply up some maybe...) ------- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Feb 5 13:17:50 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Places not to put a soldering iron... Message-ID: <19980205191750.9283.qmail@hotmail.com> My Mac Portable has 2MB RAM, 1MB soldered on and 1MB on an expansion board. This board has room for more chips, which, if added, would make the board a total of 3MB. The problem is that the board has chips on both sides, so that the little legs stay on the surface, instead of going through. Can I technically solder on the chips by myself, or is it unrealistic? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Feb 5 13:20:05 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? In-Reply-To: <13329969262.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Feb 5, 98 11:08:06 am Message-ID: <9802051920.AA08233@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1170 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980205/99d9b2df/attachment.ksh From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Feb 5 13:29:08 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? In-Reply-To: <9802051920.AA08233@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: <13329973091.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [15V thru wirewrap wire] Yeah, you're probably right. It's probably be better to use heavier wire and just solder the power distribution stuff in. Then wire-wrap the rest. Oh, you said that :) Also, if I solder the stuff wrong, there's a desolder tool at SSI, so I'd be able to undo that easier than if I attempted tracing these. I'll go see if I can find that book. ------- From zmerch at northernway.net Thu Feb 5 13:37:22 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? In-Reply-To: <13329959455.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980205143722.009f7c90@mail.northernway.net> At 10:14 AM 2/5/98 -0800, you wrote: >About how much would it cost? (Assuming you can get them...) Wander down to your local Radio Smack store, and buy a wire-wrap tool & some 30AWG solid wire -- there's your kit. (They also have wire-wrap sockets & whatnot -- matter of fact, maybe I'll get some tonite for myself; I haven't wire-wrapped in a coon's age.) Wire wrapping is *not* very expensive, even at Shadio Rack. HTH, Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From cfandt at servtech.com Thu Feb 5 15:52:21 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: 9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts In-Reply-To: <9801058867.AA886717641@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: At 14:19 05-02-98 +0000, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: >I had a trip down memory lane yesterday - I cleared a path to the filing >cabinet and got out my old IBM glossy leaflets. As well as things like >"IBM 3090 - the Base for Growth into the Nineties" I found a couple of >things on the 9370 series. I also found some stuff on PC graphics >platforms and 3270PCs (of which more in my next). > >> At 12:30 03-02-98 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: >>> >>>Just because the sticker says 30 amps does not mean it will draw that >>>much! In general, those ratings are worst case (a fully blown system), and >>>includes some safety factor (as well as some surge). >> >> Oh I already knew that, William. A 30A breaker works out fine to handle the >> six 9332 DASD units (IBM's accronym for these type of hard disks for some >> of you other observers), 9345 tape drive, rack power controllers and the >> 9370-60 CPU. > >Ah. A 9375. Despite my joke and William's response, a 9375 model 60 >has the highest power consumption of any in my catalogue, at 1.8kW - >enough to heat a room, if not a house. Yep. Just the 9375-60 Processor Unit weighs-in at 290 pounds (132 Kilos) ! (My memory failed and I called it a 9370-60) The unit is about 27 or 28 inches tall, about 27" deep and fits in the 19" rack width. What a hogger to move. Two large fans in the power supply move a bunch of air thru the P. S. sections and circuit board rack. Only two or three additional circuit boards added over the base model. 18 total, IIRC. I just found within a paper archive on my desk (aka: a pile) that the 9370 was announced in October 1986: "Four models of new midrange S/370 CPU's. 0.5 to 2.5 MIPS." My company got this unit (likely the first one of the production machines) in mid to late '87. > >(FWIW DASD = Direct Access Storage Device) > >If you are interested in operating systems, those listed for the model >60 were: > >VM/SP >VSE/SP >IX/370 (The AIX you were asking about) >MVS (which won't run on the 9373 (model 20) or model 40.) Yes, I am interested in OS's for this iron. VSE/SP was running on it before system shutdown in mid-'96. Don't know what version though. Gotta get past that place where IPL stopped to see an opening screen. I could not take the 3174-1R Communications controller and all 20 of the 3191 Display Stations. No space!!! Kept 2 3191's. I suspect the machine is looking for the 3174, cannot find it and then halts during IPL with a message that I cannot recall now. The Processor Console is actually an IBM PS/2 model 30 (the bottom-of-the-PS/2-line 8086 machine). Hard disk is possibly getting flaky and I need to find a replacement or simply try to run the 9370 Processor Console software on a different PC. Microcode was loaded into the 9375 from the Console machine's hard disk during IPL. The _huge_ 3262 printer weighed over 500 pounds (227 kilos) so that was a definite no-no to drag home :-( I need any VSE/SP OS manuals that can support me! But I want to keep an eye open for IX/370 and any documentation which I previously heard of being available. Is it true what I heard that IX/370 runs on top of VM/SP??? If true and I can find IX/370, then that would for sure mean I try to obtain VM/SP and documentation for this machine too. In addition, any other literature, brochures, advertising, etc. which are related to the 9370 systems I would be interested in obtaining to help further document them. Anybody have anything they're willing to part with out there? > >There were also integrated packages carrying their own environment based >on VM, which was then called VM/IS > >>Can't wait to work more with the system later this year if the wife has no >>additional remodeling in the new house for me to do :-( >> >Have fun! Planning on it, Philip! I would be able to keep the list informed of my progress with getting the system completely up and running if any interest. This is especially true if list members help me out through the list. Could be informative for a few others like I've been pleasantly informed. While I was watching past threads in which list members helped get other folks through startup questions/problems on DEC machines, etc., I learned a few things which is rather satisfying. Regards, Chris -- -- ======================================================= Christian Fandt Phone: +716-488-1722 -Home 111 Harding Avenue +716-661-1832 -Office Jamestown, New York Fax: +716-661-1888 -Office fax 14701-4746 USA email: cfandt@servtech.com From cfandt at servtech.com Thu Feb 5 15:32:27 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: 9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts In-Reply-To: <9801038865.AA886548793@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: At 15:24 03-02-98 +0000, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: >> At 13:15 13-01-98 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: >> >>>> Me too! But I think a 4381, say or even a 9370, would be easier to work >>>> on. >>> >>>Getting a 9370 should not be a problem - they are dogs that really were >> >> I'll agree it's no problem. I got the old 9370 from my company setting at >> home. Paid an official $1 to act as a transfer of ownership. It's just >> barely a classic now. Obsolete as heck -not too long after we paid $200k+ >> for it in '86/'87. Lot of Tylenol used to sooth aching back muscles when I >> dragged it home piece-by-piece. (Should have seen the wife look at me...) > >Strange how people in different (geographical) areas find different >machines. In the [year + 2 vacations] I worked for IBM, I never saw a >9370 at all. It was released at about that time - I grabbed some >marketing leaflets which I believe I still have - and I thought it >looked an interesting system, but I never saw one :-( Could it be that IBM did not sell many or none at all in UK? They were first sold in '86/'87 until about 1990 or '91 I think. > >> It's a dog, but nevertheless, something important in the line of S/370 >> lineage which I literally rescued from the dumpster. >> >> Notably, it is said to be the first actual production unit sold. Don't >> exactly recall complete serial number, but it probably is first since it is >> something like xxx0001. Will get back to the list later with SN, etc. if >> anybody interested in confirming this. > >Fun if true. Do find out! I'll check deeper into this at work, however, if any IBM folks out there could tell me how to confirm this, I would like to hear from you! :^) > >> I need OS books (VSE, I think) and help in bringing her completely up. >> Xerox, I believe, kept the OS manuals since they did all the software >> maintenace under contract. IBM did hardware maintenance, of course. We used >> the Xerox Business Management System (XBMS) product to run our company. Have >> virtually all other hardware books and most periferal books safely at home. >> >> Heard that AIX could run on the 9370 under (I think) VM or something. Any >> AIX and VM OS's around that I could scrounge for this iron?? > >I'll have a look in my marketing bumf and see what IBM were offering. >Alas, I have little of a technical nature. > >I'd think a 9370 ought to run Phoenix/MVT at least. Do any of our >Cambridge (UK) contingent want to have a go? > >> Have tried to bring it up at home but, apparently, lack of certain >> periferals it expects to see hung off the terminal ports causes the IPL to >> quit before OS completely loads. Need a guru or present-day user to help >> figure this out. > >You know, that sort of thing _might_ be in the marketing stuff (as in, a >complete system need consist only of...) since the main selling point >was the small size and no need of special machine room. I could not drag home all of the peripheral units (the comm. controller, 3262 printer (S/370 Bus), and other incidentals) No room for it all :-( Sorry folks, it was only a partial rescue. > >> Any of you folks willing to help me with this project later in the year??? > >Yes, but not physically, since I am unlikely to get to travel to the >States again in the near future! That said, I do have a voucher to >spend with Continental Airlines sometime... I meant help by email of course :^) Thanks for the offer of help! Though, if you're ever in the neighborhood... ;-) Maybe through use of email, snail mail and even 'phone/fax, you and anybody else who's willing to pitch in to help me solve the startup problem(s) are absolutely welcome to jump in whenever I get going on the project later in '98. > >> Wife and I just bought another house and will not be settled until >> summertime or later. I'm making provisions during my rewiring of the house >> to include a 30A double-pole breaker since the 9370 takes 230V, single >> phase. Will duct the air coming out of the CPU to heat the house instead of >> using the furnace (just kidding, but there's quite a few BTUs dumped outta >> the thing and could keep the house above freezing in the winter at least.) > >30A at 230V is around 7kW - running continuously, that could keep a >small house quite warm. (Typical electrical domestic heating >installation in UK, four storage heaters rated at between 2kW and 4kW >each, heat up for 7 hours at night, release heat slowly during day - >equivalent of 3 to 4 kW continuously) Not the full 30 amps is being consumed. That's the circuit breaker rating which is around twice the normal current draw -fine for this application. Surge current is handled well by the breaker upon startup. The rack Power Controllers bring up the CPU, DASD's and tape in a sequential manner. > >>Will tell the list anything more on this machine if any interest. > >Yes please. > >Philip. > ======================================================= Christian Fandt Phone: +716-488-1722 -Home 111 Harding Avenue +716-661-1832 -Office Jamestown, New York Fax: +716-661-1888 -Office fax 14701-4746 USA email: cfandt@servtech.com From cfandt at servtech.com Thu Feb 5 15:48:56 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: 9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts In-Reply-To: References: <9801058867.AA886717641@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199802052016.PAA00826@cyber2.servtech.com> At 09:48 05-02-98 -0500, William Donzelli wrote: >> Sounds about right. 11A at 230V is 2.5 kVA, which will do 1.8kW at 0.7 power >> factor (typical for a rectified mains power supply) with ease. >> >>> Still dumped alotta heat! :-) We got cheap electricity in this town.$0.036 >>> per KWH vs. about $0.08 or more per KWH outside of the area. >> >> Even $0.08 is less than we pay (typically $0.11). But we can get dual >> tariff systems which charge us the same peak rate and less than half >> that off-peak for heating etc. But I digress. > >This sounds like a perfect time to get on my soapbox concerning big >computers and electricity! > >Lets say you have this wonderful IBM mainframe and wish to use it. When >you add up all of the DASDs, maybe a terminal or two, perhaps you end up >with a 3 kW system. Now run that value thru your electric bill. I think >that you will find that a night of hacking on your system will cost less >than a ticket to a movie! Certainly more _fun_ than some of the films that have been released for sure! The wife will not agree though. But if one of us had a large old S/360 or S/370 in our basements, the power consumption would financially kill us (because of the water chillers for cooling, current consumption of older technology electronics, etc.) I'd love to even _see_ a large S/360 and all its utilities. > >And I must admit that I am suprised that the CPU sucks so much. I suppose >if some of the memory was taken out, it would be quite a bit less. My >Sun-4/280 draws a hell of a bunch, but it has 32 megs of 41256 DRAMS, >each one sucking a little bit. Just removing 24 megs from it drops the >power consumption greatly. Only one 8 Meg board installed. Maximum, IIRC, was 16 Mb storage. DASD was probably used as workstation storage. Philip, can you confirm any of this from your sales literature? If you're interested, William, I can give you the lineup of PC board modules in the CPU which I briefly talked about earlier in the thread. - Chris -- -- ======================================================= Christian Fandt Phone: +716-661-1832 -Office ACU-RITE INC. +716-488-1722 -Home One Precision Way Fax: +716-661-1888 -Office fax Jamestown, New York 14701-9699 USA email: cfandt@servtech.com From mallison at konnections.com Thu Feb 5 14:56:49 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) References: <9801058867.AA886723213@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <34DA2791.6084@konnections.com> Phillip: How much is there on the 3270pc? I have absolutely NO documentation and I'd like to have some refs. Otherwise, anyone have any 3270pc stuff they'd like to get rid of? -Mike Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > The only piece of useful information about the 3270PC displays I could > find yesterday was the resolution - 720 x 512 x 8 for the small > graphics display, which I am now fairly convinced was a 5272. I don't > know the scanning rates I'm afraid. > > Larry, you can get text on it with only one of the 3270PC display > cards, which will indeed work in an XT. > > I'm curious that 720 x 512 (or 800 x 512) was so uncommon - it seems a > logical (-ish) step up from 640 x 400. > > I was going to go on at length here about the PGC (PGA) and its > display, since the marketing leaflet surprisingly gives a lot of info, > right down to the connector pinout. But Tony got there first. > > Philip. > > From william at ans.net Thu Feb 5 16:07:44 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: 9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts In-Reply-To: <199802052016.PAA00826@cyber2.servtech.com> Message-ID: > Certainly more _fun_ than some of the films that have been released for > sure! The wife will not agree though. But if one of us had a large old > S/360 or S/370 in our basements, the power consumption would financially > kill us (because of the water chillers for cooling, current consumption of > older technology electronics, etc.) Well, just do not run it around the clock. > I'd love to even _see_ a large S/360 > and all its utilities. I would be happy with a small S/360 or S/370. They could be run (and fit) in a basement or garage. > Only one 8 Meg board installed. Maximum, IIRC, was 16 Mb storage. DASD was > probably used as workstation storage. Philip, can you confirm any of this > from your sales literature? If you're interested, William, I can give you > the lineup of PC board modules in the CPU which I briefly talked about > earlier in the thread. Sure, list away! William Donzelli william@ans.net From mtapley at swri.edu Thu Feb 5 11:14:58 1998 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <199802050802.AAA33382@lists.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: >"Slipsticker"?!? I thought I was the last one! C'mon -- who else here has >his old slide rule _and_ still remembers how to use it? > >manney Yo! Right here in my desk drawer. Used this one through High School (graduated 1980). The teachers cut me some slack on the 3rd digit from time to time. >No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a >magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a belt >loop. ... >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org Oooh, a pretty one. That's just like my "home system". >I also use a E6B ... That one is in the plane as I'm absolutely certain >it works as the calculator version of the E6B allways seems to need a >new battery. > >Allison Right - and it's fast, and the readout is visible in any lighting condition in the cockpit (if you can't read an E6B, navigation is *not* your main problem!) and you can drop it about as far as you want and it'll be OK. I have never used an electronic E6B, for all those reasons. > I know of some people with >700+ units. Me, I have 30, including a 7 foot long Pickett classroom rule. > >Cheers >Andrew Wow...I didn't think this thread would lead to massive array parallel processing *or* supercomputing...but you never know! ;-) - Mark From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Feb 5 17:12:30 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980205143722.009f7c90@mail.northernway.net> from "Roger Merchberger" at Feb 5, 98 02:37:22 pm Message-ID: <9802052312.AA09688@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 746 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980205/4ca55b1b/attachment.ksh From mallison at konnections.com Thu Feb 5 17:55:26 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: IBM Archive Message-ID: <34DA516E.210C@konnections.com> Anyone know where there's a good IBM program and/or doc archive that goes back beyond last month? Really into the 80's Looking for original PC stuff... Thanks, -Mike From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 5 16:28:34 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? In-Reply-To: <13329969262.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Feb 5, 98 11:08:06 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1432 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980205/34271cd1/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 5 16:34:51 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Places not to put a soldering iron... In-Reply-To: <19980205191750.9283.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Feb 5, 98 11:17:50 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1511 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980205/9469ef25/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 5 15:58:20 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? In-Reply-To: <13329959455.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> from "Daniel A. Seagraves" at Feb 5, 98 10:14:14 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1038 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980205/6c34578f/attachment.ksh From manney at nwohio.nwohio.com Wed Feb 4 19:27:00 1998 From: manney at nwohio.nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Slipsticks (was: Re: greetings) Message-ID: <199802060118.RAA18941@mxu2.u.washington.edu> > I still have my circular slide rule from high school and even use it on > occassion. I won't say when I got it but it was before HP released the -35 Well, I learned the slipstick in '68. From manney at nwohio.nwohio.com Wed Feb 4 19:31:17 1998 From: manney at nwohio.nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Slipping sticks Message-ID: <199802060118.RAA03320@mxu3.u.washington.edu> > >Slide Rule Trading Post > >http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/ > > > >On my site you will find a link to JavaSlide on the main menu. That's a > >JAVA slide rule I wrote some while back, so you can reminisc even if you > >can't find your old faithful. Its quite good, actually. It is -- vary well done! There are still people interested in them...I didn't know there were so many slipsticks around! (btw, I bought about 10 at an auction awhile back...still have a few left, sans cursors. Anyone want one?) manney@nwohio.com From manney at nwohio.nwohio.com Wed Feb 4 19:37:57 1998 From: manney at nwohio.nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Slipping sticks Message-ID: <199802060123.RAA03570@mxu4.u.washington.edu> > Am I the only person > to have been brought up with a Keuffel & Esser ivory covered mahogany > rule? Also, what was the name of the manufacturer who made a bamboo core > rule? K&E made a bamboo one, too. (At least mine looks like bamboo -- it certainly isn't mahogany). I was told that bamboo has a low coefficient of linear expansion, which is why they used it. manney From manney at nwohio.nwohio.com Wed Feb 4 19:41:04 1998 From: manney at nwohio.nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Slipsticks and calculators and a clock Message-ID: <199802060123.RAA07463@mxu1.u.washington.edu> > $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first? > > Not by a long shot. The first was in late '71 and went for about $140 > (8bigit 4banger). I had one going into EE school. What was the model number? I got my SR-10 in '74, my first year of college. Still have it, somewhere. manney From manney at nwohio.nwohio.com Wed Feb 4 19:46:52 1998 From: manney at nwohio.nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? Message-ID: <199802060123.RAA19496@mxu2.u.washington.edu> > Not quite (at least for PS/2's). PS/2 models with a number lower than > 50 (ie, mods 25, 30, 35, 40) have an ISA (or is it EISA?) bus. 25 and 30 are ISA, anyway. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Thu Feb 5 19:23:08 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Slipsticks (was: Re: greetings) In-Reply-To: <199802060118.RAA18941@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <13330037533.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Forgive me, but I've sinned... :) I had a circular slide rule, but I never learned to use it. It's buried somewhere in my collection of junk, I think... I'll go look for it tonight. Anyone have directions for it's une anywhere? ------- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Thu Feb 5 19:55:21 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? In-Reply-To: <13329964960.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <9802051831.AA07659@alph02.triumf.ca> Message-ID: >Oh, and Yes, I know that'd take forever. And be really hard. >But I'm gonna try anyway. I was thinking more along the lines of driving you crazy (sorry, I couldn't resist, just remembering the wirewrapped engineering consoles in the Navy). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From dcoward at pressstart.com Thu Feb 5 20:22:05 1998 From: dcoward at pressstart.com (Doug Coward) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Slipsticks and calculators and a clock Message-ID: <19980205182205.34f1d221.in@mail.pressstart.com> : ><>My first one was the SR-10...the ><>"wedge". $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first? Allison wrote >Not by a long shot. The first was in late '71 and went for about $140 >(8digit 4banger). I had one going into EE school. Kip wrote: >But that WAS the SR-10. I was reading through this quarter's issue of the International Calculator Collector. (The cover story is about the 30th anniversary of the world's first "pocket" calculator- TI's "Cal-Tech" prototype) They print an excerpt from Electronics magazine dated July 3,1972 that said that TI was test marketing their first calculator - The Datamath in Dallas and Houston, selling for 149.99. Another excerpt from a TI press release dated September 21,1972 states "A line of three new calculators introduced today marks the formal entry of Texas Instruments into the electronic calculator market. The three new calculators are the TI-2500 portable calculator and the TI-3000 and TI-3500 desk models." According to TI's calculator history page (Check out http://www.ti.com/calc/docs/calchist.htm) the TI-2500 DataMath came out in 1972. And the SR-10 came out in 1973. ========================================= Doug Coward dcoward@pressstart.com Senior Software Engineer Press Start Inc. Sunnyvale,CA Curator Museum of Personal Computing Machinery http://www.best.com/~dcoward/museum ========================================= From scott at isd.canberra.edu.au Thu Feb 5 20:51:42 1998 From: scott at isd.canberra.edu.au (Scott McLauchlan) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Does anyone know what power supply the Hanimex Pencil II uses? Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980206135142.007fc770@isd.canberra.edu.au> I have recently bought a second-hand Pencil II computer. This machine was made in the mid-eighties by Soundic Electronics. I have heard it was distributed my Hanimex, although there's no indication of this on the computer itself. Its microprocessor is an NEC Z80 clone, and it appears to have 16Kb RAM. The case is light grey and black, with dark grey alphanumeric keys and light grey cursor and function keys. Its BASIC comes on a cartridge which is inserted in a slot in the top right-hand corner of the unit. You can see a picture of it at http://www.insset.u-picardie.fr/museum/english/pages_museum/hanimex.htm (the only mention of the machine I've found on the Web). Unfortunately I do not have a power supply or any documentation for it. Could anyone tell me what the pinouts for its power supply are (the power socket is a four-pin DIN socket)? Thanks in advance. Regards, | Scott McLauchlan |"Sometimes the need to mess with their heads| |Information Services Division| outweighs the millstone of humiliation." | | University of Canberra |__________Fox_Mulder_"The_X-Files:_Squeeze"_| | scott@isd.canberra.edu.au |http://www.canberra.edu.au/~scott/home.html | From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 5 22:00:21 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Slipsticks and calculators and a clock In-Reply-To: <199802060123.RAA07463@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980205220021.4f37b2b6@intellistar.net> TI's first calculator was the TI-2500 DATAMATH. It was introduced in June '72 and cost $149.95 The SR-10 came out in late '72 and also sold for $149.95. Joe At 08:41 PM 2/4/98 -0500, you wrote: >> $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first? >> >> Not by a long shot. The first was in late '71 and went for about $140 >> (8bigit 4banger). I had one going into EE school. > > What was the model number? I got my SR-10 in '74, my first year of >college. > >Still have it, somewhere. > >manney > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 5 22:02:04 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Slipsticks (was: Re: greetings) In-Reply-To: <13330037533.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <199802060118.RAA18941@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980205220204.526f4412@intellistar.net> Use it just like a regular rule but it doesn't matter which end you use since you can't run off the end of it. Joe At 05:23 PM 2/5/98 -0800, you wrote: >Forgive me, but I've sinned... :) >I had a circular slide rule, but I never learned to use it. >It's buried somewhere in my collection of junk, I think... >I'll go look for it tonight. Anyone have directions for it's une anywhere? >------- > From foxnhare at goldrush.com Thu Feb 5 21:01:08 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 316 References: <199802050802.AAA33382@lists.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34DA7CF4.4BA8@goldrush.com> From: Bill Yakowenko Subject: EPROM programming voltages >Can anyone point me to an on-line reference showing the necessary >voltages for programming various EPROMs? I'm especially interested >in the oldies-but-goodies: 2708, 2716, 2732, and 2764's. In >particular, it seems some of them want 25v while others want only >21v, and I suspect that even the same chip number from different >manufacturers may want different voltages. 2708 (looks like 12 volts according to a spec sheet in one of my books.) 2716 25 volts 2732 25 volts 2732A 21 volts 2732B 12.5 volts 2764 21 volts 27C64 21 volts 2764A 12.5 volts Source: EPROM Programmers Handbook for the C64 and C128 by CSM Software. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Feb 5 21:25:23 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Tape Backup Software ?'s Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980205182650.46df7a6e@ricochet.net> Does anyone know of a MS-DOS (pretend it's a 10yr+ old version) compatible backup program that can handle a SCSI DAT drive? I have *not* been able to find one. If you know of one, would you know where to find a copy now? Failing that, how about a windoze 3.11 program? Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Feb 5 21:25:29 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Dec/Vaxstn 3100, and source in SF Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980205185325.3fe783d6@ricochet.net> Is there a difference between a DecStation 3100 and a VaxStation 3100? I saw some of each today at one of my favorite money pits (escaped for under $200 today!). Are they Vaxen or something else? I'm not too interested (I'm an HP 3000 guy). Anyway, the place I saw them is called HMR Global Recycling. They basically take a *HUGE* warehouse full of old PC's and Macs and ship them overseas everyday. But they also sell some stuff to the average joe. It's mostly as-is, especially for the odder stuff. They have the DEC stuff, plus some Sparc stuff, misc. Apple (mostly mac) stuff, and the occassional wierd thing. Sometimes they have good prices, and sometimes they don't; it depends on who you talk to and how they're feeling. You go in, look around for what you want, then find someone to tell you how much they want for it. There is no set pricing, or anything, they seem to make it up as you go. They're open to negotiation; I am generally able to talk them down a bit. Anyway, today I picked up: 4 DB25-Cen50 SCSI Cables (HP) $2.50 ea 5 Mac Mice $6.00 ea 10 Mac Appletalk kits MIB $2.50 ea 4 250MB 3.5" SCSI HD's $17.50 ea 1 6 HH drive ext SCSI case $20.00 1 HP 9114 disk drive $10.00 and the best of the bunch... 1 GRiD Compass 1101 $15.00 Anyway they have a web page (not much, last time I checked) at , and they're located on 23rd St., just East of 3rd, near Army (or Ceasar Chavez for the tourists.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Feb 5 21:26:06 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 316/ programming eproms Message-ID: <199802060326.AA06174@world.std.com> <2708 (looks like 12 volts according to a spec sheet in one of my from "Uncle Roger" at Feb 5, 98 09:25:29 pm Message-ID: <9802060329.AA10694@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 321 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980205/6e56d791/attachment.ksh From manney at nwohio.nwohio.com Thu Feb 5 21:16:13 1998 From: manney at nwohio.nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Slipsticks (was: Re: greetings) Message-ID: <199802060332.TAA14424@mxu3.u.washington.edu> > Forgive me, but I've sinned... :) > I had a circular slide rule, but I never learned to use it. > It's buried somewhere in my collection of junk, I think... > I'll go look for it tonight. Anyone have directions for it's une anywhere? If you can't find them, e-mail me and I'll tell you how. It's just like a straight one, but wrapped, with 2 cursors. Clear? manney@nwohio.com From sethm at loomcom.com Thu Feb 5 21:52:30 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? Message-ID: <199802060352.TAA02145@loomcom.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1502 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980205/fd927a32/attachment.ksh From photze at batelco.com.bh Thu Feb 5 21:52:44 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: IBM Archive Message-ID: <01bd32b2$ae302440$LocalHost@hotze> Well, this one's not really good at all, but try http://www.can.ibm.com . -----Original Message----- From: Mike Allison To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 2:53 AM Subject: IBM Archive >Anyone know where there's a good IBM program and/or doc archive that >goes back beyond last month? Really into the 80's Looking for original >PC stuff... > >Thanks, > >-Mike From dastar at wco.com Thu Feb 5 22:48:49 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? In-Reply-To: <13329969262.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Probably. I'm going to take a razor and slice all the traces, and the take > a VOM to all the pins to make sure there isn't anything I missed (All the > pins are seperate). Then I'll wirewrap the pins in the way I want them. > Then, I just have to dig up a console interface and a MOS RAM board, > and I can (maybe) put this 8A CPU to use. I figure I can modify a PC power > suply to do 5v and 15v (Just adjust the 12V supply up some maybe...) Daniel, You're in high school right? Is there any chance that when you graduate you'll want to come out to California to work for me? I don't know if you realize this, but it is extremely rare to find a guy your age who could be categorized as a true hacker. You are a true hacker. Keep going the way you are and you'll be sure to run into success where ever you go in life. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From fmc at reanimators.org Thu Feb 5 22:50:47 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? In-Reply-To: "Seth J. Morabito"'s message of Thu, 5 Feb 1998 19:52:30 -0800 (PST) References: <199802060352.TAA02145@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <199802060450.UAA11192@daemonweed.reanimators.org> > My friend (and I, for that matter), would never condone software piracy, > in all seriousness. However (again, hypothetically speaking of course) > my friend would have a lot of trouble understanding how posessing and > running an old, obsoleted version of VMS would bring harm to anybody or to > any organization. He might also be very disappointed that there were no > available inexpensive hobbyist licenses available, which, if one existed, > he would certainly jump at and support with his own hard earned money, > quite happily. So, you and your friend might want to webulate over to http://www.montagar.com/hobbyist/index.html for starters. Hope this helps. -Frank McConnell From allisonp at world.std.com Thu Feb 5 22:56:13 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Dec/Vaxstn 3100, and source in SF Message-ID: <199802060456.AA27197@world.std.com> from "Seth J. Morabito" at Feb 5, 98 07:52:30 pm Message-ID: <9802060538.AA11235@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 791 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980205/7783ea16/attachment.ksh From sethm at loomcom.com Fri Feb 6 00:48:19 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? Message-ID: <199802060648.WAA02220@loomcom.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 663 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980205/b2eace19/attachment.ksh From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Feb 6 05:45:59 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) Message-ID: <9801068867.AA886794853@compsci.powertech.co.uk> > How much is there on the 3270pc? I have absolutely NO documentation and > I'd like to have some refs. I have half a dozen to a dozen pages, I think. Email me privately at Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk with your snail-mail address and I'll post you a photocopy - I don't think there can be any objection to this (can there?) It is only marketing stuff, but it is not completely clueless (unlike modern equivalents!) Philip. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Feb 6 07:43:15 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? In-Reply-To: <199802060352.TAA02145@loomcom.com> Message-ID: <13330172267.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> You can get one from DECUS, it's a hobbyist distribution. It comes on CD-ROMs, and you can also get it on TK50s. I've forgotten the URL... ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Feb 6 08:00:16 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Anyone know where I can get a wirewrap kit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13330175367.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Yes, I'm in high school. Work in California? Not sure - what are you doing out there? What I'm really good at is telling Unix what to do. I also know I'm 4th generation hacker. My friend Jeff is not too far behind me. As far as I KNOW, we may be the last 2. Giving allowances, there may be 5 or 10 REAL hackers left. It's somewhat depressing to be the last of something... but if I can find someone before I leave here (Illinois) and show him the correct way to go, maybe I can create another... The name hacker has been dragged through the mud for far too long. There's almost no real record of the 1st and 2nd generation hacks. (1st were the hacks at MIT. 2nd were those at Berkeley and elsewhere, who adjusted the Hacker Ethic to allow for making money. 3rd are the present-day warez loosers. [They're here for refrence. Technically, they don't count]) All that survives to the actual public is the image of some cybernerd on drugs with wild hair maliciously attacking big companies just to be a punk. My brother hates computers, and he's closer to THAT description than I am. Of course, I'm still not as good as the 1st-gen guys. I can't solder any good, I have nearly no idea how to wire-wrap or use a slide rule, and I can't do number conversion in my head yet. I'm not very good at math. (I can do it with a calculator, but I tend to drop numbers left and right with big variables) I still have some to go... ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Feb 6 08:04:32 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: I did it AGAIN! Message-ID: <13330176142.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Is there a command to make TOPS-20 kill something from the mail queue BEFORE it gets sent? That's really aggrivating(sp?) when you see so@and.so#Internet -- Queued and you realize that's NOT the intended reciever, and it sits in the queue for awhile before getting sent, and theoretically you COULD stop it but I can't figure out how... Go ahead and (all but Sam) disregard that! ------- From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Feb 6 08:59:06 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: slipping sticks Message-ID: <9801068868.AA886806554@compsci.powertech.co.uk> >>No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a >>magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a belt >>loop. ... Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule? Also, for the benefit of us non-Americans, what approximate age is "high school"? At school slide rules were the only permitted calculating machines in maths classes up to age 16 in my day (academic year 1982-83) (requirement was dropped a couple of years later). I went through a series of cheap plastic ones and ended up with an expensive plastic one - I asked the local stationers for a replacement cursor and they sold me this really nice slide rule for the same price (one pound) just to get rid of it! This too has lost its cursor, tho' I believe I still have the rule somewhere. More recently I bought a decent wooden one for a similar price at a car boot sale - still in box with plate glass cursor. I also have a special purpose cardboard one with two slides that is meant to calculate the flow of water through pipes of various sizes, materials and gradients. >>700+ units. Me, I have 30, including a 7 foot long Pickett classroom rule. Wow! On a 7 foot rule you should be able to get four sig. figs without too much interpolation anywhere along the length. Or are the markings too coarse for that? Philip. From naamato at idrp.merit.net Fri Feb 6 09:21:57 1998 From: naamato at idrp.merit.net (Nick Amato) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:52 2005 Subject: Dec/Vaxstn 3100, and source in SF In-Reply-To: <199802060456.AA27197@world.std.com>; from Allison J Parent on Thu, Feb 05, 1998 at 11:56:13PM -0500 References: <199802060456.AA27197@world.std.com> Message-ID: <19980206102157.57167@idrp.merit.net> On Thu, Feb 05, 1998 at 11:56:13PM -0500, Allison J Parent wrote: > > DECstations is MIPS (R4000 I think) cpu and VAXstation is VAX powered. > The DS3100 is R3000-based. There were some R4K models manufactured near the end of its life. Note that there is an {Open,Net}BSD port for the DS3100. Nick From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Feb 6 09:17:33 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: Tape Backup Software ?'s Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980206091733.00c24390@pc> Uncle Roger wrote: >Does anyone know of a MS-DOS (pretend it's a 10yr+ old version) compatible >backup program that can handle a SCSI DAT drive? I have *not* been able to >find one. If you know of one, would you know where to find a copy now? I use a circa 1992 "ASPITAPE.SYS" driver I got from Compuserve to drive SCSI DAT and Exabyte under MS-DOS. I even had a 'tar' that worked with it. I'll find them and send to you in e-mail if you like. It was made by Greg Shenaut. In the docs his e-mail address is listed as marva4!gks1!greg@ucdavis.EDU . Now there's a blast from the past, if you want to keep this thread on topic and explain e-mail in the Old Days. From jfoust at threedee.com Fri Feb 6 09:17:30 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980206091730.00c22ae0@pc> If only there was a mechanism to persuade companies to allow such hobby use of archaic software. It would be great if there was a standard document, perhaps similar to that OpenVMS license, that would eliminate the guilt from violating someone's copyright. "What's the harm" isn't good enough for me. To me, preservation of the rights of the old software is almost as important as the software itself. But it's not easy. It may be impossible. You can get an old system from a dumpster and if you're lucky you find floppies and the manuals. Take an example from one of my pet projects, the Terak computer. Terak was sold to CalComp, and CalComp was bought (or was always owned) by McDonnell-Douglas. The last anyone saw of the Terak assets was a semi driving from Scottsdale to New Hampshire. This Herculean task now consists of finding someone within MD who has the time and the good will to care, and who's been around long enough to know what the heck I'm asking for. Then I've got to persuade them to give me the right to, oh, copy some fifteen-year-old floppies for someone without a legit copy, or to write an emulator that uses the code and allow others to get a copy. I've long heard that some varieties of dark-side hacking involve Social Engineering that can open a door or shoulder-surf a password, but I doubt it's powerful enough magic to persuade a defense contractor to sign a paper to give you something for nothing. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Feb 6 09:44:22 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks Message-ID: <01bd3316$18571820$71f438cb@nostromo> -----Original Message----- From: Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, February 07, 1998 2:09 AM Subject: Re: slipping sticks >>>No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a >>>magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a belt >>>loop. ... > >Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule? Almost ALL Pickett Slide Rules are aluminium. [snip/snip] >>>700+ units. Me, I have 30, including a 7 foot long Pickett classroom rule. > >Wow! On a 7 foot rule you should be able to get four sig. figs without >too much interpolation anywhere along the length. Or are the markings >too coarse for that? The 7' rule is simply a blown up version of a 12" rule. Everything 7 times bigger. Sure, you can estimate a bit better, but you wouldn't really want to try to calculate with this thing. Its massive!! PS: Brand new Pickett ES500 rules (quite nice model) can be had for US$25 at the Gemmary. Tell them I sent you ;) Cheers Andrew From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Fri Feb 6 10:04:18 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks Message-ID: <9801068868.AA886810339@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Andrew, > PS: Brand new Pickett ES500 rules (quite nice model) can be had for US$25 at > the Gemmary. Who? Where? Seriously, I've never heard of the Gemmary - can you give a bit more info? $25 is reasonable for a nice slide rule, I agree. Philip. From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Fri Feb 6 10:15:05 1998 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? Message-ID: <01IT95V4H1OI9I8YZG@cc.usu.edu> > My friend (and I, for that matter), would never condone software piracy, > in all seriousness. However (again, hypothetically speaking of course) > my friend would have a lot of trouble understanding how posessing and > running an old, obsoleted version of VMS would bring harm to anybody or to > any organization. He might also be very disappointed that there were no > available inexpensive hobbyist licenses available, which, if one existed, > he would certainly jump at and support with his own hard earned money, > quite happily. If your hypothetical friend lives hypothetically in the United State of hypothetical America, he might, hypothetically, spend some time searching http://www.dejanews.com/ for the original hypothetical hobbyist VMS license announcement, which would (hypothetically) include a URL pointing at a place to obtain a hypothetical CD-ROM distribution. Your hypothetical friend would then, hypothetically, be reduced to finding someone willing to copy said hypothetical distribution files to hypothetically blank TK50s (hypothetically, some extra work would have to be done to build a hypothetically bootable standalone backup tape as well). I'd supply the URL, but I don't have it handy and I don't recall it offhand. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 6 11:30:08 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <9801068868.AA886806554@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980206113008.43df3a32@intellistar.net> At 02:59 PM 2/6/98 GMT, you wrote: >>>No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a >>>magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a belt >>>loop. ... > >Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule? Aluminium galls too bad to use with aluminium against aluminium. and it corrodes too easily, specially around salt and moisture (like sweaty hands). In the last 10-20 years they have developed coatings to minimize both problems and it has become more usable. None the less, there have been a lot of slide rules made of it. My MB_4 and EB-6 aircraft navigation slide rules are both built of it. My dad had an old (K&E ?) rule that's also aluminium. > >Also, for the benefit of us non-Americans, what approximate age is "high >school"? > >At school slide rules were the only permitted calculating machines in >maths classes up to age 16 in my day (academic year 1982-83) >(requirement was dropped a couple of years later). I went through a >series of cheap plastic ones and ended up with an expensive plastic one >- I asked the local stationers for a replacement cursor and they sold me >this really nice slide rule for the same price (one pound) just to get >rid of it! This too has lost its cursor, tho' I believe I still have >the rule somewhere. > >More recently I bought a decent wooden one for a similar price at a car >boot sale - still in box with plate glass cursor. I also have a special >purpose cardboard one with two slides that is meant to calculate the >flow of water through pipes of various sizes, materials and gradients. > >>>700+ units. Me, I have 30, including a 7 foot long Pickett classroom rule. > >Wow! On a 7 foot rule you should be able to get four sig. figs without >too much interpolation anywhere along the length. Or are the markings >too coarse for that? > >Philip. > > From engine at chac.org Fri Feb 6 10:45:06 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <9801068868.AA886810339@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980206084506.00f1bd70@pop.batnet.com> At 16:04 2/6/98 GMT, you wrote: >> PS: Brand new Pickett ES500 rules (quite nice model) can be had for US$25 >[snip] >....I've never heard of the Gemmary - can you give >a bit more info? How about: The Gemmary Box 2560 Fallbrook CA 92088 USA +1 760 728-3321 voice +1 760 728-3322 fax rcb@gemmary.com mail www.gemmary.com/rcb/ website They sometimes have Curtas too but not for $25! __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Fri Feb 6 10:50:15 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <01bd3316$18571820$71f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <199802061706.LAA21302@onyx.southwind.net> > > > The 7' rule is simply a blown up version of a 12" rule. Everything 7 times > bigger. Sure, you can estimate a bit better, but you wouldn't really want > to try to calculate with this thing. Its massive!! One of my science teachers had one of those. I'm convinced that's about the best way to teach basic slipsticking. Jeff From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Fri Feb 6 10:37:08 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <9801068868.AA886806554@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <199802061705.LAA21018@onyx.southwind.net> > >>No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a > >>magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a belt > >>loop. ... > > Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule? > > Also, for the benefit of us non-Americans, what approximate age is "high > school"? > The age range for highschool in the US is 13 - 19 (approx). You usually enter around 13 or 14, and finish four years later (older but in general, not much wiser). 8-P Present company exepted, of course . . . . Jeff From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Fri Feb 6 10:47:55 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <01bd3316$18571820$71f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <199802061706.LAA21224@onyx.southwind.net> > > >>>No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a > >>>magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a > belt > >>>loop. ... > > > >Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule? > > > Almost ALL Pickett Slide Rules are aluminium. The only thing I dislike about those aluminum Picketts is that unless properly maintained, they can oxidize like hell, rendering them useless. I used to sometimes see them at swapmeets; usually in the 'junk box', corroded and in a very sorry state. Jeff From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Feb 6 11:46:23 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <199802061705.LAA21018@onyx.southwind.net> Message-ID: <13330216530.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [intelligence of high school graduates] There's more than the fair share of idiots here. I was showing a class how to log in at the student workstations, we have a Novell network. (For them. I stay on the Unix side as much as possible!) One kid asks, "What if we try getting nude pictures off the web?" I answered that I could see whatever they did on the computers, so doing that would be a bad idea. So he replies, "Well, we could always just break them." (Meaning the computers). I'm betting he'll be a senior for a couple more years... The bad part is that a majority of the freshmen coming in see this, and think "That dude's COOL, man, better act like him!" ------- From photze at batelco.com.bh Fri Feb 6 11:42:43 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks Message-ID: <01bd3326$a14e9ee0$LocalHost@hotze> OK, well, about to enter high school, I've got this to say: 13 is for 7th-8th grade, so it's 14 minimum for high school. There are, of course, exceptions, like in Kansas and Florida they enter school a year older, etc. Actually, here, in 7th grade, we've got 2 14 and one 15 year old(s). And, people ARE much smarter, but they didn't learn anything in school, if they're like me. (Sam alert...) ;-) Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Jeff Kaneko To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 8:38 PM Subject: Re: slipping sticks > >>No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a > >>magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a belt > >>loop. ... > > Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule? > > Also, for the benefit of us non-Americans, what approximate age is "high > school"? > The age range for highschool in the US is 13 - 19 (approx). You usually enter around 13 or 14, and finish four years later (older but in general, not much wiser). 8-P Present company exepted, of course . . . . Jeff From dastar at wco.com Fri Feb 6 11:54:55 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: Real hackers In-Reply-To: <13330175367.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: First, my apologies. I didn't mean for my original message to be sent public. On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > The name hacker has been dragged through the mud for far too long. > There's almost no real record of the 1st and 2nd generation hacks. (1st > were the hacks at MIT. 2nd were those at Berkeley and elsewhere, who > adjusted the Hacker Ethic to allow for making money. 3rd are the > present-day warez loosers. [They're here for refrence. Technically, Not true. Read _Hackers_ by Steven Levy. It embodies the tale of the first two generations you mentioned and then also goes into the game hackers of the early 80s on microcomputers. An excellent book. I've read it twice (first in 1988) and may bring it on my next trip to read again. As far as the warez-loozers, well, they are just that, warez-loozers, and will be a footnote in some future book. > they don't count]) All that survives to the actual public is the image > of some cybernerd on drugs with wild hair maliciously attacking big > companies just to be a punk. My brother hates computers, and he's > closer to THAT description than I am. Heheh. So true, unfortunately. The other extreme is the fat-pud-who-eats-while-he's-hacking stereotype and then the thick-glasses-total-dweeb-high-pitched-voice-hacker stereotype. > Of course, I'm still not as good as the 1st-gen guys. I can't solder > any good, I have nearly no idea how to wire-wrap or use a slide rule, > and I can't do number conversion in my head yet. I'm not very good at > math. (I can do it with a calculator, but I tend to drop numbers left > and right with big variables) I still have some to go... ------- That's all myth, Daniel (except for the number-conversion-in-the-head, starting working at it :). The fact is, you don't NEED to know how to wire-wrap or use a slide-rule. They would be impressive skills and might get you a date some day, but if we still NEEDED to use those tools to this day then we wouldn't have progressed much in the realm of technology and that would be very sucky. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Feb 6 12:19:49 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks Message-ID: <199802061819.AA27953@world.std.com> v6.1 systems are still good for production work. There are still systems in production use still running them. Often the problem with "abandoned" software is finding the oner of record or who it is. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Feb 6 12:20:04 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks Message-ID: <199802061820.AA28227@world.std.com> < Aluminium galls too bad to use with aluminium against aluminium. and it I used to used a aircraft silicone lube on mine and cleaned it periodically. Otherwise it would bind annoyingly. I added another 37 volumes to my vintage computer library yesterday. By far the most valuable from a historical standpoint is the book _Computer Power for the Small Business_ from 1979. It is a buyer's guide for microcomputers of the mid- to late -0's era. Talk about a treasure. This book has pictures and decriptions of many computers I've never even heard of. It contains information on systems we know much of, such as the Atari's, Apple, PETs, Radio Shack, etc. But it also has blurbs on systems that I've not seen mentioned anywhere else (at least not in a way that is looking back on these systems with a historical perspective) like the RCA Cosmac VIP, the Sol-20, Exidy Sorcerer, Heathkit H-8 and H-11, Intecolor 8031. The best part is the descriptions of systems I've never knew about before. Has anyone ever heard of an Outpost computer? Its a fully integrated package with keyboard, display and 5.25" drive, but its almost three feet wide, with the two 5.25" drive bays to the side of the display! How about the PeCos One from APF Electronics. I have a pong machine made by APF but who would've thought they once made computers? How about The Renaissance Machine (aka Compucolor II)? There's also mention of the Teal SHC-8000, which is sort of like a pet with display, keyboard and cassette player in one unit. It then has a listing with about 40 different system descriptions, including CPU, memory, external storage, input (ie. keyboard, lightpen), output (ie. display, printer) and basic cost. There's also the company address which is extremely valuable for research. Here's an interesting tidbit. Apparently Data General made a line of computers dubbed "The Digital Group". According to this entry in the table, they were systems based on the Z-80, 8080A, 9080A, 6800 and 6502 processors; they had 2K of main memory; they used cassettes for storage. Can anyone verify this? I also got another similar book entitled _The Peter McWilliams Personal Computer Buying Guide_ circa 1985. I haven't had a chance to go through it in much detail but it is basically more nice descriptions of early- to mid-80's computers, again some of which I've never heard of. I'll do a review later. In my travels I also picked up a Victor 800 electric adding machine. I don't collect adding machines and only rare grab them for specific reasons. In this case, this is the same Victor as the Victor 9000 computer. I knew right away because the 'o' in the "Victor" emblem was that striped-circle that is telling of a Victor product (plus it had a Scott's Valley, CA address on the back). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 6 13:26:17 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <9801068868.AA886806554@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980206132617.2de72684@intellistar.net> At 02:59 PM 2/6/98 GMT, you wrote: >>>No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a >>>magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a belt >>>loop. ... > >Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule? > >Also, for the benefit of us non-Americans, what approximate age is "high >school"? OOPs, hit the send button too soon. High school is usually 9 through 12 grade in the US. Roughly 14 to 19 years of age depending on where your birthday falls in the school year. > >At school slide rules were the only permitted calculating machines in >maths classes up to age 16 in my day (academic year 1982-83) >(requirement was dropped a couple of years later). I went through a >series of cheap plastic ones and ended up with an expensive plastic one >- I asked the local stationers for a replacement cursor and they sold me >this really nice slide rule for the same price (one pound) just to get >rid of it! This too has lost its cursor, tho' I believe I still have >the rule somewhere. > >More recently I bought a decent wooden one for a similar price at a car >boot sale - still in box with plate glass cursor. I also have a special >purpose cardboard one with two slides that is meant to calculate the >flow of water through pipes of various sizes, materials and gradients. > Yes, there were lots of specialized rules made. Aircraft naviagation rules are common. >>>700+ units. Me, I have 30, including a 7 foot long Pickett classroom rule. > >Wow! On a 7 foot rule you should be able to get four sig. figs without >too much interpolation anywhere along the length. Or are the markings >too coarse for that? Usually these were made for class room use and have course gradualtions so that they can be seen from a distance. Normally the have the same number of graduations as a standard 6, 8 or12 inch rule just further apart. > >Philip. > > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Feb 6 12:30:44 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: Real hackers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13330224603.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Sending in public] That's alright. I've already done it too many times... [The book _Hackers_] Sounds good, I'll go see if I can locate a copy somewhere. I have a copy of _The Hacker Crackdown_, it's on my 486 at home. In electronic form. Do you have a copy? It's pretty good, and it's freely distributable (The author calls it "literary freeware") [Myths (slide rules and etc.)] True... I'm not going to need them much... Actually, I can wirewrap in a way - I can operate a punchdown tool. That's kinda the same thing - and I used that a lot to run 'phone cables. I'm gonna be doing it in about 2 days again, we're hanging a modem off the Linux box here so me and a few of the teachers can get free internet. (I already have free internet, I'm the admin at umtec.) I'll probably never have to KNOW how to use a slide rule, unless I get a pilot's liscense and have to use one of those navigation calculators. They have electronic versions, but all I've ever heard of them is that they fail at the worst times... Of course, I won't really KNOW until I go try it. Maybe after I graduate and can afford it. I had a friend who was going to teach me, but he died 1 day before I was supposed to go up with him. His VariEze flipped on him during final approach, he hit a fence, inverted, and dug a rut. The weight of the aircraft prevented him from breathing. I wasn't there. They dug around for why he crashed for awhile. I was never told what the FAA said, but I have my own theory. He'd added a headlight to the very nose of the craft. If you've never seen a VariEze, it's a little pusher-prop affair invented by Burt Rutan. (He made Voyager.) It's also a canard aircraft. That means that the tailplane is out front, holding the nose up. You've seen the pictures of the cube in the wind tunnel before, right? The airstream comes off at a 45deg angle. With that relativley flat surface at the nose of the plane instead of the sleek nosecone it was supposed to have, the wind did similar, blanking the inner 1/2 to 1/4 of the elevator. This worked OK at higher speeds, the lift generated was enough to work. But, low and slow with the added weight of his son in the back, there simply wasn't enough lift to keep the nose flying. So, down it went. The bad part was, he was giving his son a ride as his 16th birthday present. Anyway, enough of that... That's one of the bad points to a line editor, you can't edit the message much afore you send it! You asked if I'd come to California and work... not sure. What are you doing out there? ------- From photze at batelco.com.bh Fri Feb 6 12:26:45 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: Real hackers Message-ID: <01bd332c$c79d6300$LocalHost@hotze> >First, my apologies. I didn't mean for my original message to be sent >public. Sam, this is a big step for you.... ;-) >On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > >> The name hacker has been dragged through the mud for far too long. >> There's almost no real record of the 1st and 2nd generation hacks. (1st >> were the hacks at MIT. 2nd were those at Berkeley and elsewhere, who >> adjusted the Hacker Ethic to allow for making money. 3rd are the >> present-day warez loosers. [They're here for refrence. Technically, > >Not true. Read _Hackers_ by Steven Levy. It embodies the tale of the >first two generations you mentioned and then also goes into the game >hackers of the early 80s on microcomputers. An excellent book. I've read >it twice (first in 1988) and may bring it on my next trip to read again. Can you please get the ISBN for that? >As far as the warez-loozers, well, they are just that, warez-loozers, and >will be a footnote in some future book. But nothing more. I dispise them. I've got a friend, who's brother claims to know "hackers" who own looser warez sites. I asked them to get into my system. They tried for 2 hours, and they eventually were convinced that I WAS running Windows 2.0. ;-) Now, he knows how to "semi-hack" but hadn't HEARD of C/C++, and thought that Unix was dead. He didn't even know about the "clear" Linux command!!! Hacking into a NT system is... not un-hard. >> they don't count]) All that survives to the actual public is the image >> of some cybernerd on drugs with wild hair maliciously attacking big >> companies just to be a punk. My brother hates computers, and he's >> closer to THAT description than I am. > >Heheh. So true, unfortunately. The other extreme is the >fat-pud-who-eats-while-he's-hacking stereotype and then the >thick-glasses-total-dweeb-high-pitched-voice-hacker stereotype. And then there's the nerdy NASA mission-control type revenge guy. >> Of course, I'm still not as good as the 1st-gen guys. I can't solder >> any good, I have nearly no idea how to wire-wrap or use a slide rule, >> and I can't do number conversion in my head yet. I'm not very good at >> math. (I can do it with a calculator, but I tend to drop numbers left >> and right with big variables) I still have some to go... ------- > >That's all myth, Daniel (except for the number-conversion-in-the-head, >starting working at it :). The fact is, you don't NEED to know how to >wire-wrap or use a slide-rule. They would be impressive skills and might >get you a date some day, but if we still NEEDED to use those tools to this >day then we wouldn't have progressed much in the realm of technology and >that would be very sucky. What are the requirements for being a hacker? ;-) Tim D. Hotze From higginbo at netpath.net Fri Feb 6 12:47:08 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: Real hackers In-Reply-To: <01bd332c$c79d6300$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980206134708.007ed720@netpath.net> At 09:26 PM 2/6/98 +0300, you wrote: >What are the requirements for being a hacker? ;-) A basement would be good for starters, or barring that, a darkened room. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From engine at chac.org Fri Feb 6 12:55:06 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: DG and not DG (was: More books for the library) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980206105506.00f398e0@pop.batnet.com> At 10:25 2/6/98 -0800, you wrote: >Here's an interesting tidbit. Apparently Data General made a line of >computers dubbed "The Digital Group". According to this entry in the >table, they were systems based on the Z-80, 8080A, 9080A, 6800 and 6502 >processors; they had 2K of main memory; they used cassettes for storage. >Can anyone verify this? digital group (properly all-lc) had nothing to do with Data General. They were a fanatical mail-order vendor of their own micro and peripheral kits, led (the operative word) by a Dr. Robert Suding and located somewhere in Arizona (?) The computers had multiple processors for maximum software compatibility; the designs were arcane as hell, making the kits difficult to construct. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 6 13:59:24 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980206091730.00c22ae0@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980206135924.2de7b8b0@intellistar.net> At 09:17 AM 2/6/98 -0600, you wrote: >If only there was a mechanism to persuade companies to allow such hobby >use of archaic software. It would be great if there was a standard >document, perhaps similar to that OpenVMS license, that would eliminate >the guilt from violating someone's copyright. "What's the harm" isn't >good enough for me. To me, preservation of the rights of the old software >is almost as important as the software itself. But it's not easy. >It may be impossible. You can get an old system from a dumpster >and if you're lucky you find floppies and the manuals. If you have the original disk then that is normally considered proof that you have a legal copy of the software. The claim made by some of the software companies years ago that you didn't own the software and only had a right (non-transferable) to use it was thrown out by the US courts several times. I was part of a software audit team put together by a major US defense contractor and we researched this ****VERY**** thoroughly. Even ASP agreed to this position. > >Take an example from one of my pet projects, the Terak computer. >Terak was sold to CalComp, and CalComp was bought (or was always >owned) by McDonnell-Douglas. The last anyone saw of the Terak assets >was a semi driving from Scottsdale to New Hampshire. This Herculean >task now consists of finding someone within MD who has the time >and the good will to care, and who's been around long enough to >know what the heck I'm asking for. > >Then I've got to persuade them to give me the right to, oh, copy some >fifteen-year-old floppies for someone without a legit copy, or to write >an emulator that uses the code and allow others to get a copy. > >I've long heard that some varieties of dark-side hacking involve >Social Engineering that can open a door or shoulder-surf a password, >but I doubt it's powerful enough magic to persuade a defense contractor >to sign a paper to give you something for nothing. I don't know about that. A friend of mine got Martin Marietta (now Lockheed Martin) to sign over the rights to a piece of software that he wrote on company time. He now sells the software privately. Just have to keep asking. Send your request to their legal department, that's where it will end up sooner or later anyway. Joe > >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 6 14:05:01 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <199802061705.LAA21018@onyx.southwind.net> References: <9801068868.AA886806554@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980206140501.465f9fd2@intellistar.net> At 10:37 AM 2/6/98 -0600, you wrote: > > >Present company exepted, of course . . . . > Right, some of never learned to type very weel ^H^H ll :-) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 6 14:07:21 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <13330216530.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> References: <199802061705.LAA21018@onyx.southwind.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980206140721.465fdb5c@intellistar.net> At 09:46 AM 2/6/98 -0800, you wrote: >[intelligence of high school graduates] > >There's more than the fair share of idiots here. I was showing a class >how to log in at the student workstations, we have a Novell network. >(For them. I stay on the Unix side as much as possible!) >One kid asks, "What if we try getting nude pictures off the web?" >I answered that I could see whatever they did on the computers, so doing >that would be a bad idea. So he replies, "Well, we could always just break >them." (Meaning the computers). I'm betting he'll be a senior for a couple >more years... >The bad part is that a majority of the freshmen coming in see this, and think >"That dude's COOL, man, better act like him!" >------- You should have told him that was fine but he wasn't graduating till he fixed whatever he broke. Joe > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 6 14:19:16 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: high school (off topic) was Re: slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <01bd3326$a14e9ee0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980206141916.465faa3c@intellistar.net> At 08:42 PM 2/6/98 +0300, you wrote: >OK, well, about to enter high school, I've got this to say: 13 is for >7th-8th grade, so it's 14 minimum for high school. There are, of course, >exceptions, like in Kansas and Florida they enter school a year older, etc. Boing! Wrong! I'm in Florida and my daughter (14) is in high school (9th grade). A lot depends on your birthdate. Here you have to be age 6 before Sept 1 to enter school that year. Anyone that has a birthday on Aug 29 would start school a year before someone else that has a birthdate of Sept 2. Both of my kids have birthdays in late August and both are the youngest kids in their classes. Also it's not uncommon for some of the very smart kids to skip a grade. In that case they could enter high school a year before everyone else their age. One of my daughter's friends skipped *two* years of elementary school and started high school at age 12! She still carried a 4.0 average. Joe >Actually, here, in 7th grade, we've got 2 14 and one 15 year old(s). And, >people ARE much smarter, but they didn't learn anything in school, if >they're like me. > (Sam alert...) ;-) > >Tim D. Hotze >-----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Kaneko >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Friday, February 06, 1998 8:38 PM >Subject: Re: slipping sticks > > > > >> >>No, I do not have _my_ high school/college slide rule, which was a >> >>magnificent 12" yellow aluminum Pickett with a hard leather case and a >belt >> >>loop. ... >> >> Nice! Why have I never seen an aluminium slide rule? >> >> Also, for the benefit of us non-Americans, what approximate age is "high >> school"? >> > >The age range for highschool in the US is 13 - 19 (approx). You >usually enter around 13 or 14, and finish four years later (older >but in general, not much wiser). 8-P > >Present company exepted, of course . . . . > >Jeff > > > From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Fri Feb 6 08:26:34 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: DG and not DG (was: More books for the library) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980206105506.00f398e0@pop.batnet.com> References: Message-ID: <199802061919.OAA17433@mail.cgocable.net> > At 10:25 2/6/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Here's an interesting tidbit. Apparently Data General made a line of > >computers dubbed "The Digital Group". According to this entry in the > >table, they were systems based on the Z-80, 8080A, 9080A, 6800 and 6502 > >processors; they had 2K of main memory; they used cassettes for storage. > >Can anyone verify this? > > digital group (properly all-lc) had nothing to do with Data General. They > were a fanatical mail-order vendor of their own micro and peripheral kits, > led (the operative word) by a Dr. Robert Suding and located somewhere in > Arizona (?) The computers had multiple processors for maximum software > compatibility; the designs were arcane as hell, making the kits difficult > to construct. > > __________________________________________ > Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html > Computer History Association of California Hi! Finally! I was waiting for long time to see that! I happen to have the Digital Group boards. Not working far as I can tell when I tried that on composite monitor. What I have: uncased but I have keyboard for it, Z80 CPU with 2K using 2112 ic's, I/O board, 8k board, video/tape board combo with back plane. Oh, I happen to have an 32k static ram board that does not work with that set according to my former owner. There are no ASIC's just total TTL and few jelly beans LSI's in form of 24, 28 and 40 pins. It's sitting in storage right now and what is best way to restore this "historic computer"? My friend had it back in late '75 but somehow he lost the data tape to "boot up" that DG. And no docs for these set. :( If anyone have them, that would be great to digitize them in! The sockets looked pretty badly oxidized which looks like I have to swap them all with new ones. Augh! Thanks! Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 6 14:26:10 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <199802061820.AA28227@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980206142610.467f0c54@intellistar.net> At 01:20 PM 2/6/98 -0500, you wrote: > >< Aluminium galls too bad to use with aluminium against aluminium. and it > >I used to used a aircraft silicone lube on mine and cleaned it >periodically. Otherwise it would bind annoyingly. > > >I may add that it depends on the alloy too. Very true. I meant to add that. It's also depends on the hardness of the alloy. A lot of the newer alloys can be hardened and the hardening greatly reduces their tendancy to gall. Joe > >Allison > > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Feb 6 13:31:58 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: Real hackers In-Reply-To: <01bd332c$c79d6300$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <13330235750.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Hacker Requirements] I dunno, I'd have to go see if the Hacker Test is still valid... I know there's a Sysadmin Purity Test out there, I think it's somewhere under satanic.org... ------- From groberts at mitre.org Fri Feb 6 14:06:31 1998 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: One use for an old VAX In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980206134708.007ed720@netpath.net> References: <01bd332c$c79d6300$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <199802062008.PAA08454@mbunix.mitre.org> here's one innovative use for an old VAX (though I suspect some on this list will disapprove) http://techweb.cmp.com/nc/822/822f35.html - glenn +=========================================================+ | Glenn F. Roberts, Falls Church, VA | Comments are my own and not the opinion of my employer | groberts@mitre.org From allisonp at world.std.com Fri Feb 6 14:12:09 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: Real hackers Message-ID: <199802062012.AA11839@world.std.com> <>> The name hacker has been dragged through the mud for far too long. <>> There's almost no real record of the 1st and 2nd generation hacks. (1 <>> were the hacks at MIT. 2nd were those at Berkeley and elsewhere, who <>> adjusted the Hacker Ethic to allow for making money. 3rd are the <>> present-day warez loosers. [They're here for refrence. Technically, Being one of the first generation hackers... Some of my better hacks was blueboxing and using it to call MITS about hardware bugs. The college dorm pay phone that always gave money back (the trick was truly hiding the diodes used so TPC didn't find them easily). Running a VLF (160khz) site, using FM on CB in the early 70s when it wasn't full of "breaker breaker". Though the three 12v car batteries used to power the 26v line on G's minuteman missle computer in the early '70s was pretty crufty. Sending 4800 baud data through a repeater while a principle engineer from RCA was telling us it couldn't be done. It can be handy not knowing you can't. ;) Sometimes it was as silly as putting a speaker to the link lamp of a PDP-8 front pannel and coding music. By the early '80s hacking was going to disrepute as the tech wars style came in. Early hacking was serious doing it on zer0 budget, the technically difficult with bailing wire or the subtle application of brute force. Most of all hacking was doing it with minimum docs and piecing the picture from it's smoke signals. that was hacking as I knew it. the last remnents I see todat is people talking about getting an old PDP-8 or 10 and using a modern IDE disk so they can power it up and run it affordably. Allison From donm at cts.com Fri Feb 6 14:49:34 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <199802061820.AA28227@world.std.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Allison J Parent wrote: > > < Aluminium galls too bad to use with aluminium against aluminium. and it > > I used to used a aircraft silicone lube on mine and cleaned it > periodically. Otherwise it would bind annoyingly. Talcum powder was the answer for the mahogany ones. - don > > I may add that it depends on the alloy too. > > Allison > > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Fri Feb 6 14:30:10 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: More books for the library In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199802062103.PAA26960@onyx.southwind.net> > I added another 37 volumes to my vintage computer library yesterday. > > By far the most valuable from a historical standpoint is the book > _Computer Power for the Small Business_ from 1979. It is a buyer's guide > for microcomputers of the mid- to late -0's era. Talk about a treasure. > This book has pictures and decriptions of many computers I've never even > heard of. > > It contains information on systems we know much of, such as the Atari's, > Apple, PETs, Radio Shack, etc. But it also has blurbs on systems that > I've not seen mentioned anywhere else (at least not in a way that is > looking back on these systems with a historical perspective) like the RCA > Cosmac VIP, the Sol-20, Exidy Sorcerer, Heathkit H-8 and H-11, Intecolor > 8031. > > The best part is the descriptions of systems I've never knew about before. > Has anyone ever heard of an Outpost computer? Its a fully integrated ^^^^^^^ The Outpost and the Outpost II were manufactured by TANO (who also licsenced the Dragon for manufacture in the US). It was a 6800 based system, and it ran FLEX or MUMPS. The only one I've ever seen was at an ARCO facility in 1986. It was considered old then . . . Jeff From Marty at itgonline.com Fri Feb 6 16:39:29 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: Mid-Atlantic Antique Computer Club Message-ID: <1998Feb06.173816.1767.80275@smtp.itgonline.com> Thanks to all who responded to my request to form an east coast antique computer club. I've enjoyed corresponding to you all and will stay in touch. Would still like to meet more old computer enthusiasts. Marty Mintzell 5635 Heming Avenue Springfield, Virginia 22151 703-569-2380 marty@itgonline.com From zmerch at northernway.net Fri Feb 6 16:53:53 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: DG and not DG (was: More books for the library) In-Reply-To: <199802061919.OAA17433@mail.cgocable.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980206105506.00f398e0@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980206175353.00a79100@mail.northernway.net> At 02:26 PM 2/6/98 +0000, you wrote: [snip] > according to my former owner. Uh, I dunno about Canada, but slavery was abolished in the U.S. over 130 years ago... ;^> (well, actually I do know about Canada, as I can see it from here...;-) Have fun! Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | Why does Hershey's put nutritional Programmer, NorthernWay | information on their candy bar wrappers zmerch@northernway.net | when there's no nutritional value within? From mallison at konnections.com Fri Feb 6 19:29:25 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: Real hackers References: <199802062012.AA11839@world.std.com> Message-ID: <34DBB8F5.2268@konnections.com> Allison J Parent wrote: >Sometimes it was as silly as putting a speaker to the link lamp of a PDP-8 front pannel and > coding music. > Allison Silly? Why we used to turn the volume up on the tv with the sinclair to code music, it's pretty damn creative if you want my opinion. (Oh, I'm sorry, no one asked for it... ; -] -Mike From manney at nwohio.com Fri Feb 6 19:11:58 1998 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: high school (off topic) was Re: slipping sticks Message-ID: <199802070127.RAA29859@mxu1.u.washington.edu> >Both of my kids have birthdays in late August What were YOU doing on Christmas? From rcini at email.msn.com Fri Feb 6 19:25:22 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: Sun 3/50 and Shoebox Message-ID: <000401bd3367$66e6ed20$54987c0a@office1> Hello, all: I got a no-name "shoebox" drive for my Sun 3/50M workstation. It has a Maxtor 300mb SCSI hard drive and what appears to be a 60mb DC600 tape drive. After reading the Sun FAQ, I'm left clueless on how to get it to boot from the hard drive. The workstation that I got appears to have been a remote-boot type, because it looks for an Internet address at startup. Dirst off, how do I change the default boot device? Second, what are the appropriate SCSI device IDs for the hard drive and tape drive? Right now, they are set for tape:6, drive:4 (I remember from somewhere that the Suns look for a drive on ID=6). Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From jruschme at exit109.com Fri Feb 6 19:36:14 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: Dec/Vaxstn 3100, and source in SF In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980205185325.3fe783d6@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980206203614.0080a990@hiway1.exit109.com> At 09:25 pm 2/5/98 -0600, you wrote: >Anyway, the place I saw them is called HMR Global Recycling. They >basically take a *HUGE* warehouse full of old PC's and Macs and ship them >overseas everyday. But they also sell some stuff to the average joe. It's >mostly as-is, especially for the odder stuff. They have the DEC stuff, >plus some Sparc stuff, misc. Apple (mostly mac) stuff, and the occassional >wierd thing. > >Anyway, today I picked up: > > 5 Mac Mice $6.00 ea This reminds me... can any of you recommentd a good mailorder place where I can find a couple of inexpensive Mac ADB keyboards and ADB mice (2 each)? Much as I like Timco, the recent comments have me a bit leery plus he still seems a tad high on the above. My other old favorite, Intragate, seems to hav disappeared and taken about $60 of mine in the process. :-( Heck, anyone want to trade a Mac Plus kb and mouse for the ADB equivalents? :-) <<>> From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Feb 6 19:43:24 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:53 2005 Subject: Nostalgia Message-ID: <19980207014325.13050.qmail@hotmail.com> I have to comment on a few things that have recently been posted here. One is the addition of 37 books to a vintage library. How many books do you people have? One would need a bill gates-type house to store all of these old computers and books! I live in an apartment, and envy people who can- I am trying to sort out a few tens of manuals! Incidentally, I have finally gotten permission to take old stuff from a supply room in my school. I picked up Ventura Publisher 1.0, DOS 3.3 (I had an un-shrinkwrapping ceremony for that), and the PC XT manuals. And, there is lots more stuff. Harvard Graphics, printer manuals, that System/34 I mention every few weeks... What was the first publishing program anyway? Also, how many different home/small office computers have been made, do you suppose? Now, it's just Intel and Mac :( Lastly, I wanted to know if there was any place where I could actually sit down at an old machine and play with it for half an hour, just to get the feel for it. P.S. How big was the IBM 370? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rcini at email.msn.com Fri Feb 6 19:40:58 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: ProFile interface/cable needed Message-ID: <000301bd3369$77a003c0$54987c0a@office1> I just got a ProFile /// hard drive off of eBay. What is the interface card that I need for it? Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Fri Feb 6 20:10:59 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: ProFile interface/cable needed Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD540A633A@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> Well, you need a ProFile interface card :) That's going to be hard to come by. If you are an extremely persuasive person, you may be able to get one from Sun Remarketing (www.sunrem.com), but you'll have to talk 'em into it. The cable is simply a DB25-DB25 straight through. Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard A. Cini [SMTP:rcini@email.msn.com] > Sent: Friday, February 06, 1998 5:41 PM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: ProFile interface/cable needed > > I just got a ProFile /// hard drive off of eBay. What is the interface > card > that I need for it? > > Rich Cini/WUGNET > (remove nospam_ to use) > ClubWin! Charter Member (6) > MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking > ============================================ > > > > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Feb 6 20:16:42 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Nostalgia In-Reply-To: <19980207014325.13050.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13330309430.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [System/34] Hey pall, step off. I've been trying to unload mine for awhile... I was here first! :-) ------- From jrkeys at concentric.net Fri Feb 6 20:14:40 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Nostalgia In-Reply-To: <19980207014325.13050.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980206201440.006c8a14@pop3.concentric.net> Wait to really get hooked I have over 1000 books and manuals stored in 4 locations in 2 States. Keep Computing John At 05:43 PM 2/6/98 PST, you wrote: >I have to comment on a few things that have recently been posted here. >One is the addition of 37 books to a vintage library. How many books >do you people have? One would need a bill gates-type house to store all >of these old computers and books! I live in an apartment, and envy >people >who can- I am trying to sort out a few tens of manuals! >Incidentally, I have finally gotten permission to take old stuff from >a supply room in my school. I picked up Ventura Publisher 1.0, DOS 3.3 >(I had an un-shrinkwrapping ceremony for that), and the PC XT manuals. >And, there is lots more stuff. Harvard Graphics, printer manuals, that >System/34 I mention every few weeks... What was the first publishing >program anyway? Also, how many different home/small office computers >have >been made, do you suppose? Now, it's just Intel and Mac :( >Lastly, I wanted to know if there was any place where I could actually >sit down at an old machine and play with it for half an hour, just to >get >the feel for it. P.S. How big was the IBM 370? > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Fri Feb 6 13:56:48 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Places not to put a soldering iron... In-Reply-To: <19980205191750.9283.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >My Mac Portable has 2MB RAM, 1MB soldered on and 1MB on an expansion >board. This board has room for more chips, which, if added, would make >the board a total of 3MB. The problem is that the board has chips on >both sides, so that the little legs stay on the surface, instead of >going through. Can I technically solder on the chips by myself, or is it >unrealistic? Wow... I know someone who actually tried to solder RAM chips into a Macintosh computer, I think it was a Quadra model. It almost worked! He didn't fry the motherboard as I thought it would, but it didn't work. What really amazed me was that it worked at all after he removed the chips... As for what you want to do, soldering RAM chips directly onto the motherboard isn't a good idea. Even if it has empty spots for more RAM, the support chips that are needed usually aren't there. The Mac 128K->512K upgrade required adding an additional 74LS series chip(and a few other small parts) to allow the CPU to address the extra RAM. For a Mac Portable, the way to upgrade the RAM is to get a larger RAM card. Is your Portable a backlit model? Looking at GURU 2.4.3(Newer Technologies GUide to Ram Upgrades program), the Portable can handle 8MB of RAM, but the backlit model can only take 7MB of RAM. -JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 6 20:11:08 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Nostalgia In-Reply-To: <19980207014325.13050.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Feb 6, 98 05:43:24 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 889 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980207/f739baed/attachment.ksh From mallison at konnections.com Fri Feb 6 20:45:21 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Panasonic 32k toy computer Message-ID: <34DBCAC1.50E6@konnections.com> I've had my eye on a little toy Panasonic, improved sinclair clone. Anyone know what's inside? It's silver with a nice keypad, letters with basic functions, tape port, tv port, etc. and 32k Can't remember the name off hand. Just wanted to know before a spend the whole 6 dollars. (yeah, I'm becoming a bit of a baby). But I coould pull down the Apple ][ + with a Z80 card.... I'm leaning towards the Z80.... but it's twice the price : -} -Mike From harlen at erols.com Fri Feb 6 20:42:21 1998 From: harlen at erols.com (john) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Card sorter question Message-ID: <34DBCA0D.5C23@erols.com> Are there still usable punch card sorting machines out there? Do you know where any are? TIA. From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Feb 6 21:37:27 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: IBM Archive Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980206183137.5b57a86e@ricochet.net> At 04:55 PM 2/5/98 -0700, you wrote: >Anyone know where there's a good IBM program and/or doc archive that >goes back beyond last month? Really into the 80's Looking for original >PC stuff... IBM has one -- internally. I was just e-mailed some good info on the IBM 9075 PC Radio's I have in response to form I filled out on their web site. (Sorry, I don't know where...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Feb 6 21:37:36 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Real hackers Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980206191255.5b571b2e@ricochet.net> At 09:54 AM 2/6/98 -0800, you wrote: >Heheh. So true, unfortunately. The other extreme is the >fat-pud-who-eats-while-he's-hacking stereotype and then the Ever see "Cloak and Dagger"? Y'know the fat-pud-who-eats-while-he's-hacking character who gets killed? I got into a couple of fights because people said that that was me... P.S., I think real hacking is basically just a strong sense of curiosity, coupled with a need for adventure. A lot of people go rock climbing or skydiving or skiing or what-have-you to get their adrenalin flowing, and some get that same rush from getting a tricky program working (Like that web page generator I wrote a couple weeks ago) or from getting a circuit up and running. I think innovation comes not necessarily from a desire to innovate, but from running out of challenges that have been done before. The first time you write a "hello world" program, it's great. But pretty soon, that, and G.P.A. average programs and Tetris-clones get to be old hat, and hackers start looking for new challenges, only there's nothing left they can say "hey that's neat, I think I'll try and do something like that" and they have to find something like "Hmmm... what if I used that thing to make doing this thing easier..." and voila, you've got Visicalc or whatever. P.P.S. warezloosers are just liquor store robbers in disquise. Doesn't take much intelligence to copy MSWord on to a CD or upload it to an FTP site. P.P.P.S. For them what was interested in my web page generator, I'm working on documenting it and will put it up on the web Real Soon Now. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From wpe at interserv.com Fri Feb 6 21:35:25 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Just a thought, Y2K Situation | Classiccomp to rescue? Message-ID: <34DBD67B.3B1A6010@interserv.com> Hi, Just a thought, but, this group has a handle on the "heritage systems" that are still in use..... Lott'a COBOL etc floating around... Could we, as individuals, or as a group, help work this situation? Could be a lot of employment out there, not to mention a "save the world" type thing... I apologize if this is off-topic, or out of line.... Will From chrish at knet.kootenay.net Fri Feb 6 21:46:32 1998 From: chrish at knet.kootenay.net (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: More books for the library Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980207034632.00666fec@vader.kootenay.net> Sam: could you please tell me what isbn number and the publisher was on the "Computer power for small business" book though I could try and track it down in some used book syores around here. thanx Chris At 10:25 AM 06/02/98 -0800, you wrote: > >I added another 37 volumes to my vintage computer library yesterday. > >By far the most valuable from a historical standpoint is the book >_Computer Power for the Small Business_ from 1979. It is a buyer's guide >for microcomputers of the mid- to late -0's era. Talk about a treasure. >This book has pictures and decriptions of many computers I've never even >heard of. > >It contains information on systems we know much of, such as the Atari's, >Apple, PETs, Radio Shack, etc. But it also has blurbs on systems that >I've not seen mentioned anywhere else (at least not in a way that is >looking back on these systems with a historical perspective) like the RCA >Cosmac VIP, the Sol-20, Exidy Sorcerer, Heathkit H-8 and H-11, Intecolor >8031. > >The best part is the descriptions of systems I've never knew about before. >Has anyone ever heard of an Outpost computer? Its a fully integrated >package with keyboard, display and 5.25" drive, but its almost three feet >wide, with the two 5.25" drive bays to the side of the display! How about >the PeCos One from APF Electronics. I have a pong machine made by APF but >who would've thought they once made computers? How about The Renaissance >Machine (aka Compucolor II)? There's also mention of the Teal SHC-8000, >which is sort of like a pet with display, keyboard and cassette player in >one unit. > >It then has a listing with about 40 different system descriptions, >including CPU, memory, external storage, input (ie. keyboard, lightpen), >output (ie. display, printer) and basic cost. There's also the company >address which is extremely valuable for research. > >Here's an interesting tidbit. Apparently Data General made a line of >computers dubbed "The Digital Group". According to this entry in the >table, they were systems based on the Z-80, 8080A, 9080A, 6800 and 6502 >processors; they had 2K of main memory; they used cassettes for storage. >Can anyone verify this? > >I also got another similar book entitled _The Peter McWilliams Personal >Computer Buying Guide_ circa 1985. I haven't had a chance to go through >it in much detail but it is basically more nice descriptions of early- to >mid-80's computers, again some of which I've never heard of. I'll do a >review later. > >In my travels I also picked up a Victor 800 electric adding machine. I >don't collect adding machines and only rare grab them for specific >reasons. In this case, this is the same Victor as the Victor 9000 >computer. I knew right away because the 'o' in the "Victor" emblem was >that striped-circle that is telling of a Victor product (plus it had a >Scott's Valley, CA address on the back). > >Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > > > From mallison at konnections.com Fri Feb 6 22:06:50 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: 3270pc, 5272, 5271 stuff wanted Message-ID: <34DBDDDA.3BE@konnections.com> If you have any 3270pc stuff laying around, I'm still in the market for documents, software, parts, pieces or systems. Lemme know. Or, if anyone is in Cleaveland and might be willing to go to the Lewis Research Center to pick up items and send them to us, lemme know. There's a beer in it somewhere.... -Mike From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Feb 6 22:13:24 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Dec/Vaxstn 3100, and source in SF Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980206200918.3dd7d2fe@ricochet.net> >>Anyway, the place I saw them is called HMR Global Recycling. They >> >> 5 Mac Mice $6.00 ea > >This reminds me... can any of you recommentd a good mailorder place where I >can find a couple of inexpensive Mac ADB keyboards and ADB mice (2 each)? Hmmm... Perhaps I could pick up some for you next time I'm there? What are you willing to pay for keyboards? Say, anyone in the Bay Area wanna get together there sometime? I work from home (generally) MWF, and can be somewhat flexible about my time. Lemme know... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From william at ans.net Fri Feb 6 22:25:07 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Sun 3/50 and Shoebox In-Reply-To: <000401bd3367$66e6ed20$54987c0a@office1> Message-ID: > After reading the Sun FAQ, I'm left clueless on how to get it to boot > from the hard drive. The workstation that I got appears to have been a > remote-boot type, because it looks for an Internet address at startup. You can always abort the boot by hitting Stop-A during the process. If you have no transceiver on the ethernet port, the machine will complain but a boot will never start, so do not worry about corrupting anything. Anyway, from the monitor, you can specify the boot (I think it is b(#,#,#), but I will have to check on that). > Dirst off, how do I change the default boot device? Second, what are the > appropriate SCSI device IDs for the hard drive and tape drive? Right now, > they are set for tape:6, drive:4 (I remember from somewhere that the Suns > look for a drive on ID=6). On the early SPARC machines, it is contained in the battery backed RAM (incidently, a part that causes endless frustration with Sun people - after ten or so years, they die, and so does your Sun. Some people have started hacking the RAM, literally, attaching wires to the internal batteries!). You have to fiddle with the monitor. William Donzelli william@ans.net From mallison at konnections.com Fri Feb 6 22:39:45 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: PC/AT Config programs References: <34D28ED1.AAA558A7@fire.greyfox.org> Message-ID: <34DBE591.4310@konnections.com> Steve, and all, Its in here: ftp://204.146.167.81/pub/pccbbs/refdisks should be atdg207.* look in the gen_text directory for allfiles.txt for a list of all the bbs stuff. -Mike Allison Steve Przepiora wrote: > > Hi, does anyone have the setup utility for the IBM AT BIOS? > > Thanks, > > Steve Przepiora > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > Name: vcard.vcf > Part 1.2 Type: text/x-vcard > Encoding: 7bit > Description: Card for Stephen Przepiora From fmc at reanimators.org Fri Feb 6 22:53:16 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Sun 3/50 and Shoebox In-Reply-To: "Richard A. Cini"'s message of Fri, 6 Feb 1998 20:25:22 -0500 References: <000401bd3367$66e6ed20$54987c0a@office1> Message-ID: <199802070453.UAA26744@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Richard A. Cini" wrote: > I got a no-name "shoebox" drive for my Sun 3/50M workstation. It has a > Maxtor 300mb SCSI hard drive and what appears to be a 60mb DC600 tape drive. > > After reading the Sun FAQ, I'm left clueless on how to get it to boot > from the hard drive. The workstation that I got appears to have been a > remote-boot type, because it looks for an Internet address at startup. Ayup. > Dirst off, how do I change the default boot device? Second, what are the > appropriate SCSI device IDs for the hard drive and tape drive? Right now, > they are set for tape:6, drive:4 (I remember from somewhere that the Suns > look for a drive on ID=6). Given that this is a Sun 3, I would re-set them for disk ID = 0 and tape ID = 4. At that point, you should be able to get to the monitor prompt by pressing L1-A (hold L1, press A) while it's trying to boot from the network (or before) and typing "b sd(0,0,0)" to get it to boot from disk, or "b st(0,0,0)" to get it to boot from tape. Oh yeah, you need to press return after that ")", unless you want to pass some arguments to the boot, in which case you should type them before you press return (e.g. "b sd(0,0,0) -s" to boot single-user mode). I don't recall exactly how to set the default boot device. Once you have something bootable on the disk, you want to set the default boot device to "sd(0,0,0)". This setting goes in the EEPROM, only I don't remember exactly what locations to use. If you install SunOS 4.1.1 there will be an "eeprom" command that will help you to not remember too. -Frank McConnell From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Feb 6 17:45:04 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980204130351.0105d100@pop.batnet.com> References: Message-ID: <199802070454.XAA09101@smtp.interlog.com> On 4 Feb 98 at 13:03, Kip Crosby wrote: > At 12:30 2/4/98 -0800, Don wrote: > >With all of this dialogue about slide rules, I am appalled to note that > >Pickett & Eckel is the only brand name mentioned. Am I the only person > >to have been brought up with a Keuffel & Esser ivory covered mahogany > >rule? > > Not quite "brought up with," but that's what I have now. It was originally > my father's. Certainly I didn't mean to slight K+E, who made not only > slipsticks, but exceptionally fine drafting tools of many kinds. > > __________________________________________ I had a K+E in the early 50' s which I treasured so highly that I wouldn't take it with me to my 1st year Science classes but used a cheaper tho less accurate one. I inherited it from my brother , an engineer who acquired it in the thirties. Long gone but to bring this back on topic, I wouldn't give up my Atari for one. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Feb 6 17:45:05 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Slipsticks and calculators and a clock In-Reply-To: <199802042137.AA28984@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199802070454.XAA09112@smtp.interlog.com> On 4 Feb 98 at 16:37, Allison J Parent wrote: > > <>Texas Instruments was naming some of their calculators "SR" (for Slide > <>Rule) up until the mid-80's, at least. My first one was the SR-10...the > <>"wedge". $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first? > > Not by a long shot. The first was in late '71 and went for about $140 > (8bigit 4banger). I had one going into EE school. > > Allison > I have a TI-55-II that I got in 82 and IIRC they went for around that price. Still works-same debounce problem. I think TI perfected the newest model - consumer price structure that we get with computers now ($2000-$3000 ) or was that Big-3 automobiles. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Feb 6 17:45:03 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199802070454.XAA09131@smtp.interlog.com> On 4 Feb 98 at 19:42, SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > there are many models of ps1 computers, that its hard to say. the first > 2011/2121/2123 were of proprietary nature, and later ps1 types were just > standard 486 pc types. later models had power management and suspend functions > like laptops do. if its a 2011 or 2121 type make sure the monitor works, since > the cpu gets it power from there. > > I have a 2011 - and a nice VGA monitor it is . I also have a 2133 , a 386sx . I think the common feature with the PS/1 's was the included software, which had to be saved to disk . And of course the quadwindow and the " my computer" shtick. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Fri Feb 6 17:45:05 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) In-Reply-To: <34D909A7.8BF@konnections.com> Message-ID: <199802070454.XAA09121@smtp.interlog.com> On 4 Feb 98 at 17:36, Mike Allison wrote: > Assuming that all this is right (and I have no way of knowing as I'm > using the 3270pc), I bet you could find VGA, EGA or CGA cards which > could run a 3270 mode or a 5272 mode if told. It's a question of > knowing what to ask and the software or firmware knowing. Someone had > to be dumb enough to include it. > > Otherwise, what do you want for the 5272 $$? > > -Mike > > Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > > On 3 Feb 98 at 17:22, Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > > > snip > > > > > > > > > The IBM 5272, the 3270PC display, was a very nice monitor. I don't know > > > the pixel resolution, but I'd guess at 800 x 400. Unfortunately, AFAIK, > > > it only did 8 colours. > > > > > > The 3270PC display card did TEXT MODES ONLY - it was aimed at emulating > > > the 3279 terminal. You could buy two add-on cards for it that went in > > > the slots either side in the motherboard. > > > > > > 1. The PS card. This provided emulation of the Programmed Symbols > > > option on the 3279. Very nice graphics, but only as a terminal, not as > > > a PC (although presumably you could have written PC drivers for it...) > > > > > > 2. The APA card. This provided support of the All Points Addressable > > > modes of the CGA. These CGA modes were displayed in the top lefthand > > > corner of the screen. And the only 8 colours reduced the capability > > > somewhat as well. > > > > > > It looked very good, but AFAIK IBM never supported it properly. Pity. > > > > > snip > > > > > But your description of the 3270PC sounds like you've got only one of PS > > > and APA, alas. > > > > > > Hope this helps > > > > > > Philip. > > > > > I've had a 5272 -23 monitor stashed for some time. Was never able to > > get it working on an XT trying various standard cards and drivers, > > altho it did display jumbled-up color lines so I figured it must be > > the driver. IBM wouldn't/couldn't offer me any help. > > From the above, it appears that I would need a 3270pc display card > > and one of two add-on cards. If I was fortunate enough to find these > > would it work on an XT ? > > > > Also I pulled an IBM DM12n501 monitor out of a dumpster. No > > power cord , just a 15 pin female connector . I surmise it's some > > sort of dumb terminal. So before I dump it any idea on what it is ? > > > > ciao larry > > lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com > Have no idea what the $ value would be. Plus I live in Toronto and it's a moderately heavy monitor. If you're interested in some sort of a trade contact me by e-mail at the above address remember to delete the nospam. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From dastar at wco.com Fri Feb 6 23:03:13 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: IBM 5155 Portable Personal Computer Available Message-ID: I ran across an IBM Portable Personal Computer (Model 5155) today in a thrift store sans keyboard ("sans" = "without" for the English language purists). The price was $50. I'd be happy to buy it and ship it to someone who would want this. I don't know if it works, but I believe I may be able to test it. I imagine shipping would be about $25 to the farthest corners of the country (I'm in California, 94588), more for out of the country of course. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Fri Feb 6 23:08:25 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: More books for the library In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980207034632.00666fec@vader.kootenay.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Chris Halarewich wrote: > could you please tell me what isbn number and the publisher was on the > "Computer power for small business" book though I could try and track it > down in some used book syores around here. Sure thing. For the benefit of the group: Computer Power for the Small Business by Charles J. Sippl and Fred Dahl Prentice Hall, 1979 ISBN: 0-13-165373-3 (hardback) 0-13-165365-2 (paperback) Also, the other one I mentioned... The Peter McWilliams Personal Computer Buying Guide (1985-86 Edition) Quantum Press (Doubleday & Company) ISBN: 0-385-19688-1 (paperback) Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From mallison at konnections.com Fri Feb 6 23:25:48 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Just a thought, Y2K Situation | Classiccomp to rescue? References: <34DBD67B.3B1A6010@interserv.com> Message-ID: <34DBF05C.1EDA@konnections.com> Yeah: Only problem is, we won't be worries about the Y2K problem for at least TEN more years... -Mike will emerson wrote: > > Hi, > Just a thought, but, this group has a handle on the "heritage > systems" that are still > in use..... Lott'a COBOL etc floating around... Could we, as > individuals, or as a group, > help work this situation? Could be a lot of employment out there, not to > mention a > "save the world" type thing... I apologize if this is off-topic, or out > of line.... > > Will From dastar at wco.com Fri Feb 6 23:35:26 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: VCF gets media coverage Message-ID: I'm pretty proud of this so I thought I'd share it with the group. I hope nobody minds. From higginbo at netpath.net Sat Feb 7 00:09:57 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Nostalgia Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980207010431.006bfb50@netpath.net> At 05:43 PM 2/6/98 PST, you wrote: >been made, do you suppose? Now, it's just Intel and Mac :( And AMD, Cyrix, Centaur, Alpha... -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From gram at cnct.com Sat Feb 7 00:38:07 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Real hackers References: <13330235750.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <34DC014F.300ACD87@cnct.com> Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > > [Hacker Requirements] > I dunno, I'd have to go see if the Hacker Test is still valid... > I know there's a Sysadmin Purity Test out there, I think it's somewhere > under satanic.org... > ------- The sysadmin purity can be pretty daunting for a beginner, but it does have some good questions. There needs to be a couple of more branches in a few spots, since I can't get through this bit with simple binary answers. > Have you ever detected a security breach (breakin, > root compromise, or some such)? As a matter of fact, yes. > --Did you track down the jerk who did it? Eventually. > --Did you identify him/her? To me, that's the result of "tracking down". > --Did you sick the FBI on him/her? No. All they will do is put somebody in prison. I don't like system crackers to get off that easily. > --Did you get a conviction? No, I was not convicted. That person will crack no more systems. > --Did the perpetrator kill him/herself in jail out of remorse? The perpetrator was not offered the chance. Yes, I have a mean and vindictive streak. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Feb 6 21:52:14 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Nostalgia In-Reply-To: <19980207014325.13050.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >I have to comment on a few things that have recently been posted here. >One is the addition of 37 books to a vintage library. How many books >do you people have? One would need a bill gates-type house to store all It would depend on if you mean computer books, or books in general. For computers the answer is probably 100's, for all books, 1000's. As for storage, I've got a pair of 10x10 climate controlled storage units (the climate control is for the ~10,000 comics). >program anyway? Also, how many different home/small office computers >have >been made, do you suppose? Now, it's just Intel and Mac :( Not quite, there is still the Amiga, now owned by Gateway 2000. In fact I'm in the process of upgrading my A3000 (almost a classic) with a HiRes video board tonite. I bought the video board with the intention of putting it in the _new_ Amiga I'm planning on getting in a couple months. Getting new Amiga's is pretty easy. BTW the new Amiga's are supposed to be Dual processor, a 680x0 and a PPC, which means the latest accelerators (which have this setup) are worth getting. You can also get new Atari clones, but it's hard. >the feel for it. P.S. How big was the IBM 370? When I worked on a Honeywell DPS-8 Mainframe in DC, the whole third floor of the building was a IBM 370 floor. I believe they had five systems in all. The fourth floor was a small VAX. The Honeywell was the mid-sized of the three systems :^) and our floor was still probably more than half the size of a basketball court. The 370 floor would have been the size of about 5 basketball courts IIRC with several Terabytes of DASD! Of course now you can get Auspex Fileservers that will hold over a Tb using off the shelf hard drives. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From chrish at knet.kootenay.net Sat Feb 7 03:43:46 1998 From: chrish at knet.kootenay.net (Chris Halarewich) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: No subject Message-ID: <1.5.4.32.19980207094346.0066de50@vader.kootenay.net> Does any one know what type of printer ribbon can fit onto an original adam (Colecovision)printer (ginerec one I thought Was a deablo hytype but it wont fit. And where to get one from I live in Castlegar, British Columbia Canada. Thanx for your help Chris From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sat Feb 7 04:10:07 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: slipping sticks Message-ID: <01bd33b0$91231ca0$22f438cb@nostromo> Gemmary tell me they're out of ES500 rules :( Pity, they were a bargain at that price. So, your next stop could be The Slide Rule Universe. The site is a bit hard to navigate through, but in the forsale section you'll find new Picketts and other rules - prices a bit higher... but if you need one you need one http://www.sphere.bc.ca/test/swap.html Cheers Andrew Davie -----Original Message----- From: Kip Crosby To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, February 07, 1998 3:50 AM Subject: Re: Re[2]: slipping sticks >At 16:04 2/6/98 GMT, you wrote: >>> PS: Brand new Pickett ES500 rules (quite nice model) can be had for US$25 >>[snip] >>....I've never heard of the Gemmary - can you give >>a bit more info? > >How about: > >The Gemmary >Box 2560 >Fallbrook CA 92088 USA >+1 760 728-3321 voice >+1 760 728-3322 fax >rcb@gemmary.com mail >www.gemmary.com/rcb/ website > >They sometimes have Curtas too but not for $25! >__________________________________________ >Kip Crosby engine@chac.org > http://www.chac.org/index.html >Computer History Association of California > > > From adavie at mad.scientist.com Sat Feb 7 04:33:51 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Slipping sticks Message-ID: <01bd33b3$e1f16c60$22f438cb@nostromo> Circular? Believe me, I gave it strong consideration. Purely to determine the efficiency of image manipulation in Java. Oh yes, to show off as well, I guess. I thought better of it, and went on to write emulators of my Soviet Calculators instead. ;) Cheers Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Joe To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, February 05, 1998 6:20 AM Subject: Re: Slipping sticks >At 04:20 AM 2/5/98 +1100, you wrote: >>Well, since we're on this subject... how can I resist once more >>mentioning... >> >>Slide Rule Trading Post >>http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/ >> >>On my site you will find a link to JavaSlide on the main menu. That's a >>JAVA slide rule I wrote some while back, so you can reminisc even if you >>can't find your old faithful. Its quite good, actually. > > Yes, but when are you going to make a circular version? :-) > > > > From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Feb 7 06:48:57 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Adam ribbon In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980207094346.0066de50@vader.kootenay.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980207074857.006c88e0@mail.wincom.net> At 01:43 AM 2/7/98 -0800, you wrote: >Does any one know what type of printer ribbon can fit onto an original adam >(Colecovision)printer (ginerec one I thought Was a deablo hytype but it wont >fit. >And where to get one from I live in Castlegar, British Columbia Canada. > >Thanx for your help > >Chris > If you have the old ribbon you might jazz it up with an application of WD40, (so I have been told,) alternately you might get a replacement typewriter ribbon from a place like Business Depot and install it in the present case. This is theory for while I have two Adam printers I havent tackled the ribbon problem yet. Good luck Charlie Fox From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Feb 7 07:18:28 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: New Amigas, Atari Clones Message-ID: <01bd33ca$e0df8fc0$a260bcc1@hotze> Who, what where, why? Tell me all. ;-) Tim D. Hotze -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980207/80d76476/attachment.html From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sat Feb 7 02:47:19 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: DG and not DG (was: More books for the library) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980206175353.00a79100@mail.northernway.net> References: <199802061919.OAA17433@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199802071357.IAA02213@smtp.interlog.com> On 6 Feb 98 at 17:53, Roger Merchberger wrote: > At 02:26 PM 2/6/98 +0000, you wrote: > > [snip] > > > according to my former owner. > > Uh, I dunno about Canada, but slavery was abolished in the U.S. over 130 > years ago... ;^> > > (well, actually I do know about Canada, as I can see it from here...;-) > > Have fun! > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- And where did you think the terminal was for " the Underground RR" ? ciaop larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Feb 7 08:56:40 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: 3270pc, 5272, 5271 stuff wanted Message-ID: <19980207145641.16406.qmail@hotmail.com> From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Sat Feb 7 00:19:23 1998 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: CGA Modes (Wuz: Win 3.0) References: <9801068867.AA886794853@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <34DBFCEB.70@digiweb.com> Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > > How much is there on the 3270pc? I have absolutely NO documentation and > > I'd like to have some refs. > > I have half a dozen to a dozen pages, I think. Email me privately at > Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk with your snail-mail address and I'll post > you a photocopy - I don't think there can be any objection to this (can > there?) > > It is only marketing stuff, but it is not completely clueless (unlike > modern equivalents!) > > Philip. I have a copy of the Technical reference for the PGA, ~230 pages. -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Sat Feb 7 11:01:41 1998 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: More books for the library References: Message-ID: <34DC9375.27D7@digiweb.com> Sam Ismail wrote: > For the benefit of the group: > > Computer Power for the Small Business > by Charles J. Sippl and Fred Dahl > Prentice Hall, 1979 > ISBN: 0-13-165373-3 (hardback) > 0-13-165365-2 (paperback) > > Also, the other one I mentioned... > > The Peter McWilliams Personal Computer Buying Guide (1985-86 Edition) > Quantum Press (Doubleday & Company) > ISBN: 0-385-19688-1 (paperback) I have a ccouple too, acquired on the same trip Sam alluded too a few messages ago: Computers for Everybody 1984 Buyers Guild by Jerry Willis and Merl Miller dilithium press 1984 ISBN 0-88056-132-7 and Bowker/Bantam 1984 Complete Sourcebook of Personal Computing no author, but (c) Xerox Corporation ISBN 0-8352-1767-1 ISBN 0-8352-1765-5 (pbk) ISBN 0-553-05055-9 (Bantam) ISBN 0-553-34086-7 (Bantam pbk) The first has system descriptions and photos. The second has LOTS of information, with description and prices for systems, components and software. -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From mallison at konnections.com Sat Feb 7 11:56:32 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: 3270pc, 5272, 5271 stuff wanted References: <19980207145641.16406.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <34DCA050.5333@konnections.com> Max: Yeah, I'd say, sight unseen, that those are 3270 emulator cards and the requisite software for terminals between the pcs and the mframes. -Mike Max Eskin wrote: > > >From classiccmp-owner@u.washington.edu Fri Feb 6 20:06:09 1998 > >Received: from host (lists.u.washington.edu [140.142.56.13]) > > by lists3.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with > SMTP > > id UAA04168; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 20:03:30 -0800 > >Received: from mxu1.u.washington.edu (mxu1.u.washington.edu > [140.142.32.8]) > > by lists.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.05) with > ESMTP > > id UAA39734 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 > 20:03:26 -0800 > >Received: from konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [207.173.185.11]) > > by mxu1.u.washington.edu (8.8.4+UW97.07/8.8.4+UW97.09) with > ESMTP > > id UAA07145 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 > 20:03:17 -0800 > >Received: from cospo.osis.gov (ip185-232.konnections.com > [207.173.185.232]) by konnections.com (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id > UAA10964 for ; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 20:58:22 > -0700 (MST) > >Message-Id: <34DBDDDA.3BE@konnections.com> > >Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 21:06:50 -0700 > >Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > >Sender: CLASSICCMP-owner@u.washington.edu > >Precedence: bulk > >From: Mike Allison > >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > > >Subject: 3270pc, 5272, 5271 stuff wanted > >MIME-Version: 1.0 > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >X-To: Classic Computer List > >X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 beta -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN > > > >If you have any 3270pc stuff laying around, I'm still in the market for > >documents, software, parts, pieces or systems. Lemme know. > In that supply room, there are about 25 shrink-wrapped boxes of somethin > called "IBM 3270"; I was wondering what it was-have no clue myself. > It might go with the 11 full length 8-bit IBM PC cards, that have BNC > connectors on them. This is why I asked what an IBM 370 was earlier- > it acts as a host for this. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Feb 7 13:08:36 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: In-Reply-To: <1.5.4.32.19980207094346.0066de50@vader.kootenay.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980207130836.006b7710@pop3.concentric.net> logon to the web and visit the Coleco Adam's House out of Texas - www.flash.net/~coleco/main.htm and you will find everything you need for the Adam. Keep Computing - John they mail you what you need At 01:43 AM 2/7/98 -0800, you wrote: >Does any one know what type of printer ribbon can fit onto an original adam >(Colecovision)printer (ginerec one I thought Was a deablo hytype but it wont >fit. >And where to get one from I live in Castlegar, British Columbia Canada. > >Thanx for your help > >Chris > > > From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sat Feb 7 12:50:45 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 318 References: <199802070802.AAA24050@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34DCAD05.E65@goldrush.com> From: Sam Ismail Subject: More books for the library >I added another 37 volumes to my vintage computer library yesterday. >By far the most valuable from a historical standpoint is the book >_Computer Power for the Small Business_ from 1979....[snip] Some of those books are pretty good, years ago I passed by many of them but nowadays they deserve a second look. >It contains information on systems we know much of, such as the Atari's, >Apple, PETs, Radio Shack, etc. But it also has blurbs on systems that >I've not seen mentioned anywhere else (at least not in a way that is >looking back on these systems with a historical perspective) like the RCA >Cosmac VIP, the Sol-20, Exidy Sorcerer, Heathkit H-8 and H-11, Intecolor >8031. >The best part is the descriptions of systems I've never knew about before. >Has anyone ever heard of an Outpost computer? Its a fully integrated >package with keyboard, display and 5.25" drive, but its almost three feet >wide, with the two 5.25" drive bays to the side of the display! How about >the PeCos One from APF Electronics. Is that the "imagination machine?" Never saw one, the production run must have been short-lived. > I have a pong machine made by APF but >who would've thought they once made computers? How about The Renaissance >Machine (aka Compucolor II)? I saw it in a computer store in 1980, I recall it was pricy, nice display, real crisp for the time, no hint of any decent games whatsoever... [snip] >Here's an interesting tidbit. Apparently Data General made a line of >computers dubbed "The Digital Group". According to this entry in the >table, they were systems based on the Z-80, 8080A, 9080A, 6800 and 6502 >processors; they had 2K of main memory; they used cassettes for storage. >Can anyone verify this? Really cool cases, seen lots of pictures, no actual unit though... 001010111010100100100101001001011011001001011001101011010100101110100100100011 Speaking of old publications, does anyone remember the the album (12" record) titled something like the "First Philidelphia Computer Music Festival" it was distributed by Creative Computing, had music for a variety of sources including some astounding stuff from Bell Labs and the like (a computer sythesized Daisy tune, cathedral organ sethesis of Fuge in D minor, etc.) as well as more contemporary for the time computer stuff (Cosmac ELF three-voice tunes, etc.) All of it was pretty extraordinary given the time it was recorded, to some it may seem old compared to today's 'sythesisers on a card'... 001010111010100100100101001001011011001001011001101011010100101110100100100011 From: "Max Eskin" Subject: Nostalgia >I have to comment on a few things that have recently been posted here. >One is the addition of 37 books to a vintage library. How many books >do you people have? One would need a bill gates-type house to store all >of these old computers and books! I live in an apartment, and envy >people who can- I am trying to sort out a few tens of manuals! It is not always the quantity but the quality too... I also live in an apartment and have to be somewhat selective of what I get... Many of my books are in storage... Maybe when I lin the Lottery I can buy a museum for it all... >What was the first publishing program anyway? For micros, I would have to say the original Print Shop by Broderbund Software, it was a landmark achievement in my books... Wow graphics, text with free-form design! I didn't say it was the best but one of the first most popular publishing program for home use... >Also, how many different home/small office computers have >been made, do you suppose? Now, it's just Intel and Mac :( Untrue Amiga is still in production (Gateway 2000 now owns em). I am sure there are others, you limit yourself by saying that... There are hundreds of brands/models... >Lastly, I wanted to know if there was any place where I could actually >sit down at an old machine and play with it for half an hour, just to >get the feel for it. P.S. How big was the IBM 370? Well where do you live? Maybe someone on this list lives nearby... Heck I'd be tickled to have someone come over and look at my machines while I fill their ear for an hour or so... Other than that there is shows like the Vintage Computer Festival. -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Feb 7 08:27:42 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Sun 3/50 and Shoebox Message-ID: <003801bd33d5$c4306b00$54987c0a@office1> On 06 Feb 1998 20:53:16 -0800, Frank McConnell wrote: >>Given that this is a Sun 3, I would re-set them for disk ID = 0 and tape ID = 4. At that point, you should be able to get to the monitor prompt by pressing L1-A (hold L1, press A) while it's trying to boot from the network (or before) and typing "b sd(0,0,0)" to get it to boot from disk, or "b st(0,0,0)" to get it to boot from tape. Oh yeah, you need to press return after that ")", unless you want to pass some arguments to the boot, in which case you should type them before you press return (e.g. "b sd(0,0,0) -s" to boot single-user mode).<< I don't have a Sun keyboard or mouse, so what are the terminal-equivalent keys for L1? I've tried the "b sd(0,0,0)" command from the montior in DIAG mode, but it complains that the device is not present. I don't have a SCSI terminator on the end of the chain, so that may be an issue (the shoebox did not come with one; I ordered one :-)). >>I don't recall exactly how to set the default boot device. Once you have something bootable on the disk, you want to set the default boot device to "sd(0,0,0)". This setting goes in the EEPROM, only I don't remember exactly what locations to use. If you install SunOS 4.1.1 there will be an "eeprom" command that will help you to not remember too.<< I figured this one out. I've set the EEPROM for polling. I don't even know what system is on the hard drive, though. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Feb 7 08:18:54 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: ProFile interface/cable needed Message-ID: <003701bd33d5$c16f7640$54987c0a@office1> On : Fri, 6 Feb 1998 18:10:59 -0800 , Kai Kaltenbach wrote: >>Well, you need a ProFile interface card :) >>That's going to be hard to come by. If you are an extremely persuasive >>person, you may be able to get one from Sun Remarketing (www.sunrem.com), >>but you'll have to talk 'em into it. Hmmm. I've heard of these guys before, but never contacted them. Thanks for the lead. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Feb 7 08:12:26 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Service manual for Tandon/IBM drives? Message-ID: <003601bd33d5$be29c120$54987c0a@office1> Does any one have a copy of a repair manual for the Tandon/IBM 5-1/4" drives in the original IBM PC? The model# is Tandon TM1000-2A. I seem to have a short on one of the power supply lines, so I'm looking tor a diagnostics tree. Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From engine at chac.org Sat Feb 7 13:37:26 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Conquest of non-outer space In-Reply-To: <34DCAD05.E65@goldrush.com> References: <199802070802.AAA24050@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980207113726.00f22240@pop.batnet.com> At ==, Max Eskin wrote: >Subject: Nostalgia > >>....How many books >>do you people have? One would need a bill gates-type house to store all >>of these old computers and books! I live in an apartment, and envy >>people who can.... I live in an apartment too, with two other people and six (sometimes seven) computers, all ~modern, running, and in use. The CHAC's _collection_ is in half a dozen 40-foot intermodal containers. It started as a personal collection and, when I realized where it was going, I started a nonprofit foundation. Not for those who dislike paperwork, but it _is_ one way out.... __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 7 11:37:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: 3270pc, 5272, 5271 stuff wanted In-Reply-To: <19980207145641.16406.qmail@hotmail.com> from "Max Eskin" at Feb 7, 98 06:56:40 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 824 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980207/0ed8d11e/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 7 14:13:14 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Service manual for Tandon/IBM drives? In-Reply-To: <003601bd33d5$be29c120$54987c0a@office1> from "Richard A. Cini" at Feb 7, 98 09:12:26 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1023 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980207/0c2629c2/attachment.ksh From jrkeys at concentric.net Sat Feb 7 14:39:08 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:54 2005 Subject: Week's Finds Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980207143908.006bb72c@pop3.concentric.net> Slow but good this week. picked a PDP 11/73 with two small mini manuals for $15; digital pro 380 not tested; Global teleport/mercury 14.4 modem for free;LaserWriterII for $15;GTCO corp Digi-Pad controller type 5A; something called a Nic Nicolet with 2 3.5 FD's no idea what it is not opened yet $15; HP 1040A HPLC-Detection-System $15; Mettler GA44 printer very small uses paper the size on a handheld calculator free; some Mac items like keyboards and mice all were free; Panasonic RGB interface ET10g rack unit for free;another PC8300 notebook by NEC for free; a Manzana model MDQ 3.5 ext drive for free; Irwin 8-bit controller card free; ESDI card with 4 1-meg simms on it by CompuAdd $5; and lot more items that do not meet the 10 year rule. All in all it was a good week. It three of us my wife, daughter, and myself to get the PDP off the pickup, the place I got it from used a forklift to put in my truck. Out in the snow it was alot of fun. Keep computing John From william at ans.net Sat Feb 7 15:02:35 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Conquest of non-outer space In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980207113726.00f22240@pop.batnet.com> Message-ID: > >>....How many books > >>do you people have? One would need a bill gates-type house to store all > >>of these old computers and books! I live in an apartment, and envy > >>people who can.... Some of us on the East Coast banded together to form the RetroComputing Society of Rhode Island (now Inc.!). We rent a good sized room in an old rubber factory. With the building is a nice elevator, a dock, electricity, a bathroom, but no garbage (we end up taking our garbage home, as we are not ready to pay for a dumpster). We have open-houses, just about every month on Saturdays. Anyone interested? We are in Providence. William Donzelli william@ans.net From danjo at xnet.com Sat Feb 7 15:05:04 1998 From: danjo at xnet.com (Brett) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: VCF gets media coverage In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Feb 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > I'm pretty proud of this so I thought I'd share it with the group. I hope > nobody minds. Kudo's Sam - well done! Tho the mag has changed over the years, they are still one I look at everytime I see it. > >From the February '98 issue of Dr. Dobb's Journal, News & Views (page 18): > > "Geezer Ware" Who wrote this! 8-) > Computer collectors and assorted old-timers converged at the Alameda [snip] > columnist for Computer Currents. For more information about the Vintage > Computer [Festival], see http://www.siconic.com/vcf/. > > -Eugene Eric Kim We gotta get this guy on-line or at least on the list 8-) We aren't ALL geezers! We just act like them. A little more publicity wouldn't hurt! I hope there is a link from the VCF home page to the mailing list. BC From bmpete at swbell.net Sat Feb 7 15:13:11 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: 3270pc, 5272, 5271 stuff wanted In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34dfcd90.15628414@mail.swbell.net> On Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:37:14 +0000 (GMT), you said: >> In that supply room, there are about 25 shrink-wrapped boxes of somethin >> called "IBM 3270"; I was wondering what it was-have no clue myself. >> It might go with the 11 full length 8-bit IBM PC cards, that have BNC >> connectors on them. This is why I asked what an IBM 370 was earlier- >> it acts as a host for this. > >I have what I believe to be an interface card from a 3270 PC here. It's a >full-length 8 bit card with PC/3278 on it. The main chips are : >N8X305N (microcontroller) >3 off ROMs (15527-15529, Copyright 1983) >4 off 6116 RAM >DP8340 and DP8341 (Some kind of interface chip...) >Assorted TTL glue >Passives, including a reed relay > >There's a single BNC connector on the bracket. There's also an expansion >edge connector at the top front, which seems to be linked to the ROM >pins/the microcontroller. I have a card with almost that exact description labeled TELEX. The header at the top is labeled: "Graph" Expansion Interface (Quotes on the card) Anybody want it? _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From fmc at reanimators.org Sat Feb 7 15:15:45 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Sun 3/50 and Shoebox In-Reply-To: "Richard A. Cini"'s message of Sat, 7 Feb 1998 09:27:42 -0500 References: <003801bd33d5$c4306b00$54987c0a@office1> Message-ID: <199802072115.NAA29841@daemonweed.reanimators.org> "Richard A. Cini" wrote: > I don't have a Sun keyboard or mouse, so what are the > terminal-equivalent keys for L1? Oh. Never mind L1-A (or stop-A on newer keyboards), just press the break key. > I've tried the "b sd(0,0,0)" command from the montior in DIAG mode, but > it complains that the device is not present. I don't have a SCSI terminator > on the end of the chain, so that may be an issue (the shoebox did not come > with one; I ordered one :-)). Yep, it does want to see one. Something that you may want to look out for: some Suns (including the 3/50 and 3/60 I think) do not supply termination power on the bus. And some of these short the termination power line on the bus to ground, which can lead to fireworks of one sort or another if another device on the bus is trying to supply termination power over the bus to an external terminator. So you may want to do something like open that disk/tape box up, declare one device to be "on the end" of the SCSI bus, install the appropriate termination resistors on that device, and get that device to provide termination power to its resistors but not to the bus. Confused yet? Good. -Frank McConnell From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Sat Feb 7 15:22:51 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Who's in PDX? Message-ID: Alright, this may be a REALLY stupid idea, but it sounds like fun. First, how many people on the list are in Portland, OR? Sure seems like there are a lot. Second, who in PDX would be interested in seeing a new classic computers users group? Not a dozen groups of C64 and TI-99 fans, but a UG for ALL of the old computers, wether it be an old mainframe/minicomputer or a funny looking micro. Well? What do you think? Would it be worth it? That's all for now, from my strange mind... But be careful, I might pounce at any time! :-> -JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek From mallison at konnections.com Sat Feb 7 15:37:18 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: 3270pc, 5272, 5271 stuff wanted References: Message-ID: <34DCD40E.3796@konnections.com> Tony. I just happened to have my cards out for cleaning. Yours seems a bit different. I wonder if it's earlier or an expansion card for the pc/xt to give it 3270 comm capability. My connection card has: The BNC 2x8435 a BUNCH of gates or st, these 74L??? no memory that I can see (the computer has 640k) a clock/crystal marked 14.1523 mhz (1589449) Some IBM chips 2x 5617135 ???? I dunno... Mike Tony Duell wrote: > I have what I believe to be an interface card from a 3270 PC here. It's a > full-length 8 bit card with PC/3278 on it. The main chips are : > N8X305N (microcontroller) > 3 off ROMs (15527-15529, Copyright 1983) > 4 off 6116 RAM > DP8340 and DP8341 (Some kind of interface chip...) > Assorted TTL glue > Passives, including a reed relay > > There's a single BNC connector on the bracket. There's also an expansion > edge connector at the top front, which seems to be linked to the ROM > pins/the microcontroller. > > -tony From mallison at konnections.com Sat Feb 7 15:38:25 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Week's Finds References: <3.0.3.32.19980207143908.006bb72c@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <34DCD450.DCD@konnections.com> Download Unix V7 for free for the PDP from minnie in AU. -Mike John R. Keys Jr. wrote: > > Slow but good this week. picked a PDP 11/73 with two small mini manuals > for $15; From william at ans.net Sat Feb 7 15:38:29 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Nostalgia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > When I worked on a Honeywell DPS-8 Mainframe in DC, the whole third floor > of the building was a IBM 370 floor. I believe they had five systems in > all. The fourth floor was a small VAX. The Honeywell was the mid-sized of > the three systems :^) and our floor was still probably more than half the > size of a basketball court. The 370 floor would have been the size of > about 5 basketball courts IIRC with several Terabytes of DASD! Of course > now you can get Auspex Fileservers that will hold over a Tb using off the > shelf hard drives. In general, S/370 (or S/360, for that matter) installations are big, but they did vary quite a bit. The low end processors are maybe the size of two medium refridgerators (IBM rarely used/uses standard 19" racks - a real pain when they meet raised floor tiles), but the high end ones are huge. The DASDs also vary greatly in size. I still maintain that one could run one of the small processors at home without too much dificulty. If someone gets me a S/360 or 370, I will even prove it! William Donzelli william@ans.net From manney at nwohio.com Sat Feb 7 16:19:23 1998 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Message-ID: <199802072223.OAA22625@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Don't forget to try re-inking if you can't find one. manney > Does any one know what type of printer ribbon can fit onto an original adam > (Colecovision)printer (ginerec one I thought Was a deablo hytype but it wont > fit. > And where to get one from I live in Castlegar, British Columbia Canada. > > Thanx for your help > > Chris > From sethm at loomcom.com Sat Feb 7 16:48:16 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Symbolics 3670 Available (SF Bay Area) Message-ID: <199802072248.OAA00966@loomcom.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2539 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980207/b6fca569/attachment.ksh From higginbo at netpath.net Sat Feb 7 19:29:15 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Commie IDE interface Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980207202256.006c0a34@netpath.net> This guy has a working IDE interface for the Commodore-64/128. It will accept up to an 8gb hard drive, and ATAPI CD-ROM support is in the works. Price is $89US plus shipping. Access time is about 60 times faster than the 1541 floppy, about 25k/sec. It would be worth getting just to see it work! Here's the address: http://sgi.felk.cvut.cz/~vorlicek/Ide/c64ide.html -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Feb 7 19:58:09 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Commie IDE interface Message-ID: <19980208015809.17405.qmail@hotmail.com> From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Feb 7 22:22:40 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Portland Area VT320's Message-ID: Sorry, this is going out to a lot of people that it doesn't apply to, but as was pointed out earlier today a lot of the people on this list seem to be in the Portland area. I know a guy that is currently trying to get rid of quite a few VT320's, and probably a few others (sorry, no VT520's). He's not on the Internet, but if you want I can put you in touch with him. As I said this is for the Portland area. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Feb 7 22:10:08 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: New Amigas, Atari Clones In-Reply-To: <01bd33ca$e0df8fc0$a260bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: > Who, what where, why? Tell me all. ;-) Tim D. Hotze Who? Well for the Amiga, Gateway 2000 (I know, no one's heard of them) owns Amiga, Inc. and Amiga International. Amiga International is located in Germany and is in charge of marketing. Amiga, Inc is located in South Dakota IIRC, and is in charge of research (Gateway formed them). There are several clone manufactures, and I'm anxiously awaiting the BoXeR motherboards. There are several other clones either currently available or soon to be. As for why, the Amiga is still actively used in the video industry, and fairly popular in England and Germany. Personally I've got a bunch of them because I think they are major league cool! You can still buy the A1200 and A4000 new. As for the Atari, the clones are coming out of Germany, and mainly targeted at the Music industry. The Atari's have built in Midi. I've a couple, and while the concept of their OS is very, very cool (it's all in ROM), I find it cumbersome to use. Probably the most fanatical computer user I've ever met is an Atari user, makes me look calm :^) Linux and {net|open}BSD run on various models of both the Atari and Amiga. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Feb 7 22:17:16 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Commie IDE interface In-Reply-To: <19980208015809.17405.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >So you would just type load"8",8,1 and it would load? But if you >had an 8gb, you would run out of RAM listing the directory! I think it's intended for 64's and 128's that are a lot more advanced than that. A machine with a drive like that is probably running GEOS, with a 20Mhz CPU, and a lot of RAM. It's pretty amazing how souped up some of these old "Commies" are! Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From adam at merlin.net.au Sat Feb 7 07:56:25 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (adam@merlin.net.au) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64GS Message-ID: <199802081255.XAA03876@arthur.merlin.net.au> Hi! Someone here has a couple of 64 GS's - I had only heard of them in passing before, and thus don't know their interest. I looked on the web but found almost nothing - are they worth getting hold of? Not saving as such, as the owner isn't threating to destroy them or anything, but simply worth owning. :) It's been a reasonable week for me, computerwise. Other than being offered a mainframe, which was fu, I picked up the Atari 800, 800xl, heaps of software, and (a personal favorite) a Vectrex. Ok, so it is only a games machine - but I have wanted one for 15 years, and I finally have one. And for $15, too. :) Adam. From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Sun Feb 8 08:39:05 1998 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Identification of IBM circuit modules Message-ID: <34DDC389.74A@digiweb.com> I picked up a couple of IBM circuit cards today for ~$1.50. The first is about 3.5" x 4.5", has 2 24 pin connectors, 5 of the IBM square metal IC cans and many other components. It has id numbers: 75114 4B01536A1590 VCC The other is 7" x 4.5", has four 24 pin connectors, 6 larger metal IC cans , 9 DIP chips and misc components, it is marked 4161595A2828 VCC13607010 Does anyone know what these do and what system they are from and their approcimate age ? They came in nifty plastic "conductive containers" marked IBM with small windows allowing you to see what is inside. If nothing else they are great examples of IBM technology. Regards, -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From jruschme at exit109.com Sun Feb 8 07:41:56 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Sun 3/50 and Shoebox In-Reply-To: <003801bd33d5$c4306b00$54987c0a@office1> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980208084156.0080de20@hiway1.exit109.com> At 09:27 am 2/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >On 06 Feb 1998 20:53:16 -0800, Frank McConnell wrote: > >>>Given that this is a Sun 3, I would re-set them for disk ID = 0 and >tape ID = 4. At that point, you should be able to get to the monitor >prompt by pressing L1-A (hold L1, press A) while it's trying to boot >from the network (or before) and typing "b sd(0,0,0)" to get it to >boot from disk, or "b st(0,0,0)" to get it to boot from tape. Oh yeah, >you need to press return after that ")", unless you want to pass some >arguments to the boot, in which case you should type them before you >press return (e.g. "b sd(0,0,0) -s" to boot single-user mode).<< Actually, you may want to set the disk to ID 3. SunOS does this weird swapping of ID 0 and ID 3. Somebody posted the historical reason a while back to comp.sys.sun.hardware, but I believe it had to to with 3 being the likely address of another sort of device. > I don't have a Sun keyboard or mouse, so what are the >terminal-equivalent keys for L1? BREAK > I figured this one out. I've set the EEPROM for polling. I don't even >know what system is on the hard drive, though. Well, the last one for the Sun3 was 4.1.1. With a 3/50, you may actually want to stay with an older OS, say 3.5. One thing you may want to find a a 68882 math co-processor chip for it. IIRC, they were not standard, but I do recall bumping into a couple of things that *really* wanted it (X11 under Mach, for instance). <<>> From photze at batelco.com.bh Sun Feb 8 07:47:42 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: New Amigas, Atari Clones Message-ID: <01bd3498$2166cae0$LocalHost@hotze> OK... where can I get the Atari clones? It's hard to believe that they're's anyone more emotional than a Mac fanatic... anyway... please give me more info. Also, how much will it cost me? Ciao, Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Zane H. Healy To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Sunday, February 08, 1998 9:34 AM Subject: Re: New Amigas, Atari Clones >> Who, what where, why? Tell me all. ;-) Tim D. Hotze > >Who? Well for the Amiga, Gateway 2000 (I know, no one's heard of them) >owns Amiga, Inc. and Amiga International. Amiga International is located >in Germany and is in charge of marketing. Amiga, Inc is located in South >Dakota IIRC, and is in charge of research (Gateway formed them). There are >several clone manufactures, and I'm anxiously awaiting the BoXeR >motherboards. There are several other clones either currently available or >soon to be. > >As for why, the Amiga is still actively used in the video industry, and >fairly popular in England and Germany. Personally I've got a bunch of them >because I think they are major league cool! You can still buy the A1200 >and A4000 new. > > >As for the Atari, the clones are coming out of Germany, and mainly targeted >at the Music industry. The Atari's have built in Midi. I've a couple, and >while the concept of their OS is very, very cool (it's all in ROM), I find >it cumbersome to use. Probably the most fanatical computer user I've ever >met is an Atari user, makes me look calm :^) > > >Linux and {net|open}BSD run on various models of both the Atari and Amiga. > > Zane > > >| Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | >| healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | >| healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | >+----------------------------------+----------------------------+ >| For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | >| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | >| For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | >| see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | > > From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sun Feb 8 09:38:56 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: IDE interface for Commies Message-ID: <19980208153856.19021.qmail@hotmail.com> Sorry about the headers, I use Lynx and Hotmail, but I now turned them off, there should be no problem. About souping up Commodores, wouldn't a 20MHZ CPU have a different instruction set than the original CPU and thus require a different ROM? And if it has a changed ROM, then how is it a Commodore? Where can I get info on this? How much RAM would these super-Commies have? What CPU? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From rcini at email.msn.com Sun Feb 8 08:40:19 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Service manual for Tandon/IBM drives? Message-ID: <00a901bd34a7$213ef9c0$54987c0a@office1> On Sat, 7 Feb 1998 20:13:14 +0000 (GMT), Tony Duell wrote: >>Why do you think you have a power line short? With the drive connected to a PC power supply, the PS won't give a PwrGood signal; removing the drive's power connector enables the machine to boot. I think that the problem is on the motor control board; it looks like a repair may have been done on it before. Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 8 11:13:26 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Service manual for Tandon/IBM drives? In-Reply-To: <003601bd33d5$be29c120$54987c0a@office1> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980208111326.39cf7f40@intellistar.net> I have a hardware maintenance manual for the PC. It has some of the test points and diagnostics for the disk drive but not a complete service manual. E-mail me if you need a copy. Joe At 09:12 AM 2/7/98 -0500, you wrote: >Does any one have a copy of a repair manual for the Tandon/IBM 5-1/4" drives >in the original IBM PC? The model# is Tandon TM1000-2A. > > I seem to have a short on one of the power supply lines, so I'm looking >tor a diagnostics tree. > > Thanks! > >Rich Cini/WUGNET > (remove nospam_ to use) > ClubWin! Charter Member (6) > MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking >============================================ > > > > > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 8 11:20:55 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Week's Finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980207143908.006bb72c@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980208112055.39cfb9ae@intellistar.net> At 02:39 PM 2/7/98 -0600, you wrote: >Slow but good this week. picked a PDP 11/73 with two small mini manuals >for $15; digital pro 380 not tested; Global teleport/mercury 14.4 modem for >free;LaserWriterII for $15;GTCO corp Digi-Pad controller type 5A; something >called a Nic Nicolet with 2 3.5 FD's no idea what it is not opened yet $15; >HP 1040A HPLC-Detection-System $15; The HP 1040A is a diode array detector. It's an optional part of a HP 1090 liquid chromatograph. It's mentioned in HP's 1987 catalog but there are no other details. Nice haul! Joe From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Feb 8 10:59:33 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Commie IDE interface Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980208115535.006d4374@netpath.net> At 08:17 PM 2/7/98 -0800, you wrote: >I think it's intended for 64's and 128's that are a lot more advanced than >that. A machine with a drive like that is probably running GEOS, with a >20Mhz CPU, and a lot of RAM. It's pretty amazing how souped up some of >these old "Commies" are! Nope. it'll run on a perfectly stock C-64. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Feb 8 10:59:34 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64GS Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980208115617.006db56c@netpath.net> At 11:26 PM 2/7/98 +0930, you wrote: >Someone here has a couple of 64 GS's - I had only heard of them in >passing before, and thus don't know their interest. I looked on the web Now I've heard of Apple II GS, but no C-64GS. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 8 12:07:17 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: high school (off topic) was Re: slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <199802070127.RAA29859@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980208120717.4897a7b4@intellistar.net> At 08:11 PM 2/6/98 -0500, you wrote: >>Both of my kids have birthdays in late August > >What were YOU doing on Christmas? I don't remember :-/ Must have drank too much egg-nog! Joe > > From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sun Feb 8 11:31:13 1998 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Heads up! Async Panels available Message-ID: <34ddeba1.300177472@mail.wizards.net> If anyone's using the classic Emulex serial boards in a QBus or Unibus environment, this looks like a good deal... -=-=- -=-=- Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp11 Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!144.212.95.13!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news.new-york.net!news.decus.org!eisner!bruce From: bruce@eisner.decus.org (Barton F. Bruce) Subject: Free Emulex CP34 and CP11/12 panels Lines: 10 Organization: CentNet, Inc. Message-ID: <1998Feb7.120457.1@eisner> X-Trace: news.decus.org 886871143 3642 BRUCE [192.67.173.2] X-Nntp-Posting-Host: eisner.decus.org Date: Sat, 7 Feb 1998 17:04:57 GMT Xref: Supernews70 alt.sys.pdp11:2993 I have several Emulex CP34 and the older CP11/12 16 port async panels that connected to various controller cards emulating DH11/DHV11/DMF32 (CS11/CS04/?) These were daisychained to 64 (or for the dmf32, 128) ports with a single 34 wire ribbon cable from the controller card. If you have such a controller card and want more ports speak quickly or the dumpster gets them -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sun Feb 8 12:05:31 1998 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: More DEC stuff available Message-ID: <34e4f3bb.302251344@mail.wizards.net> Looks like some good prices here. If anyone's interested, please contac the original author directly. -=-=- -=-=- Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!winternet.com!news.minn.net!skypoint.com!news1.mr.net!news.mr.net!mr.net!Supernews60!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!fastnet!news.fast.net!kshuff From: kshuff@fast.net (kshuff) Newsgroups: comp.sys.dec Subject: Some older DEC stuff forsale Date: Sat, 07 Feb 98 20:05:51 GMT Organization: Im not organized Lines: 25 Message-ID: <6bieqv$o4_007@kshuff.fast.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: max2-43.phl.fast.net X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Xref: Supernews70 comp.sys.dec:60237 I have some older DEC equipment looking to clear out of the basement, everything is in working order... TU-58 DA external dual TU-58 drive $20 OBO DECmate III with monitor $30 OBO External RD52 MFM drive with cable $15 OBO VT 1200 base unit only, 4 meg memory $50 OBO DECstation 3100, no memory or drives. Has color framebuffer and SCSI floppy adaptor, but missing the floppy $35 OBO Prices do not include shipping. -Keith S. Huff kshuff@fast.net -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From spc at armigeron.com Sun Feb 8 12:13:41 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: New Amigas, Atari Clones In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 7, 98 08:10:08 pm Message-ID: <199802081813.NAA05284@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Zane H. Healy once stated: > > As for the Atari, the clones are coming out of Germany, and mainly targeted > at the Music industry. The Atari's have built in Midi. I've a couple, and > while the concept of their OS is very, very cool (it's all in ROM), They're not the only one with an OS in ROM. The Amiga has been known to do that as well [1]. OS-9 [3] is also ROMable. > I find > it cumbersome to use. Probably the most fanatical computer user I've ever > met is an Atari user, makes me look calm :^) You've never met an Amiga user, have you? 8-) -spc (A wolverine is a cuddly, friendly creature compared to the fanatical Amiga user ... ) [1] Which is why on my 3M Amiga 500 at home, after booting up, I still have 2.8M free [2] [2] And running 12 background processes as well! [3] A Unix-like OS originally written for the 6809 and available on the 68000. I'm not sure if you can get it for other CPUs though. From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 8 13:34:12 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Tek 4041 DDU ? Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980208133412.3dc70e90@intellistar.net> Does anyone have any inforn=mation about a Tektronics 4041 DDU? I is a lon dbox that has a 5 1/4" floppy drive and hard drive mounted in the front. I was told that it is for one of the Tek computers. From cgregory at lrbcg.com Sun Feb 8 13:18:10 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Anyone need these? Message-ID: <019501bd34c6$5e746fe0$c227a2ce@cliffgre> A trip to my local thrift today netted me some IBM technical manuals that I needed. However, I didn't get it all. Still available are the following: 1) Hardware Maintenance and Service 3363 Optical Disk Drive. 2) Technical Reference 3363 Optical Disk Drive 3) Personal System/2 Model 30 286 Technical Reference These are the IBM boxed three ring binders; the first two are still in shrinkwrap. The other is clean and apparently complete. The price on each is $5.00 plus 6% tax and whatever it costs me to ship them from here in Ohio. If anyone wants/needs these, I'll go back and "rescue" them. Also they have an Apple IIc and a dual floppy disk drive there for $50. It looks clean, but there are no guarantees beyond that. There were no manuals/software evident. There is also an Apple monitor there for $15. I don't know if it is/was part of the IIc system. I say that because its been sitting there for about a month, but the IIc just appeared. It's the right color and looks as if it belongs with the IIc, but........... Oh yeah, some time ago I picked up a CP/M Primer for the Epson QX-10. This is a manual that shipped with the QX-10 and a duplicate in my collection. It cost me a dollar, so if anyone has a QX-10 and needs this, contact me and I'll pass it along. Finally, a while back someone was looking for dBase II reference materials. I just acquired eight or ten third party books on dBase II. I think I could fix you up with something, el cheapo. Regards, Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Feb 8 13:23:56 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Week's Finds In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980208112055.39cfb9ae@intellistar.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19980207143908.006bb72c@pop3.concentric.net> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980208132356.006bc804@pop3.concentric.net> Thanks for the update, I will look around for some more info on it and then figure out what to do with it. John At 11:20 AM 2/8/98, you wrote: >At 02:39 PM 2/7/98 -0600, you wrote: >>Slow but good this week. picked a PDP 11/73 with two small mini manuals >>for $15; digital pro 380 not tested; Global teleport/mercury 14.4 modem for >>free;LaserWriterII for $15;GTCO corp Digi-Pad controller type 5A; something >>called a Nic Nicolet with 2 3.5 FD's no idea what it is not opened yet $15; >>HP 1040A HPLC-Detection-System $15; > > > The HP 1040A is a diode array detector. It's an optional part of a HP >1090 liquid chromatograph. It's mentioned in HP's 1987 catalog but there >are no other details. > > Nice haul! > > Joe > > > > From jrkeys at concentric.net Sun Feb 8 13:40:43 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Anyone need these? In-Reply-To: <019501bd34c6$5e746fe0$c227a2ce@cliffgre> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980208134043.006bd6c4@pop3.concentric.net> I'll take all if they are still there, we can talk offline about shipping cost. John At 02:18 PM 2/8/98 -0500, you wrote: >A trip to my local thrift today netted me some IBM technical manuals that I >needed. However, I didn't get it all. Still available are the following: > >1) Hardware Maintenance and Service 3363 Optical Disk Drive. >2) Technical Reference 3363 Optical Disk Drive >3) Personal System/2 Model 30 286 Technical Reference > >These are the IBM boxed three ring binders; the first two are still in >shrinkwrap. The other is clean and apparently complete. The price on each >is $5.00 plus 6% tax and whatever it costs me to ship them from here in >Ohio. If anyone wants/needs these, I'll go back and "rescue" them. > >Also they have an Apple IIc and a dual floppy disk drive there for $50. It >looks clean, but there are no guarantees beyond that. There were no >manuals/software evident. There is also an Apple monitor there for $15. I >don't know if it is/was part of the IIc system. I say that because its been >sitting there for about a month, but the IIc just appeared. It's the right >color and looks as if it belongs with the IIc, but........... > >Oh yeah, some time ago I picked up a CP/M Primer for the Epson QX-10. This >is a manual that shipped with the QX-10 and a duplicate in my collection. >It cost me a dollar, so if anyone has a QX-10 and needs this, contact me and >I'll pass it along. > >Finally, a while back someone was looking for dBase II reference materials. >I just acquired eight or ten third party books on dBase II. I think I could >fix you up with something, el cheapo. > >Regards, > >Cliff Gregory >cgregory@lrbcg.com > > > > From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Feb 8 14:19:39 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: New Amigas, Atari Clones In-Reply-To: <01bd3498$2166cae0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: >OK... where can I get the Atari clones? http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Bay/8745/ is the main site for Atari links. Beware it's a Geo-Atrocities site, and personally I recommend boycotting Geo-Atrocities all together. They were bad enough before they started popping advertisments up all over your machine. > It's hard to believe that they're's anyone more emotional than a Mac >fanatic... anyway... please give me more info. Also, how much will it cost >me? Well, I'm a fanatical Mac, Amiga and Linux user, and the guy I'm talking about takes the cake. As for cost, even a used Atari is incredibly expensive. About the best price I've seen on TT030's or Falcons is $500+. If you want to get an Atari, I'd recommend getting a Falcon. Comparing two stock systems the TT030 is faster, but the Falcon has the better graphics, and it looks to be easier to accelerate a Falcon than to add a graphics card to a TT030 (I've got a TT030). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Feb 8 14:20:07 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: New Amigas, Atari Clones In-Reply-To: <199802081813.NAA05284@armigeron.com> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 7, 98 08:10:08 pm Message-ID: >> at the Music industry. The Atari's have built in Midi. I've a couple, and >> while the concept of their OS is very, very cool (it's all in ROM), > > They're not the only one with an OS in ROM. The Amiga has been known to >do that as well [1]. OS-9 [3] is also ROMable. Yes, but like the Macintosh, the Amiga doesn't have the entire OS in ROM. On an Atari, you don't even have to have a disk attached to the system and you still boot into a GUI OS. >> it cumbersome to use. Probably the most fanatical computer user I've ever >> met is an Atari user, makes me look calm :^) > > You've never met an Amiga user, have you? 8-) A3000 w/18Mb RAM, Picasso IV, 1.25Gb HD, 500Mb HD, 8mm Exabyte Tape, 4x CD-ROM, 20" monitor, 10-Base2 Ethernet, OS 3.1 (Oh, and that's just my _Main_ Amiga) I'd like to add an accelerator next, but I'm planning on getting the BoXeR motherboard as soon as it's released and transfering just about everything above over to it. I work with two other Amiga users, and I've known several others. > -spc (A wolverine is a cuddly, friendly creature compared to the > fanatical Amiga user ... ) I still maintain the most fanatical user I've ever met is an Atari user. >[1] Which is why on my 3M Amiga 500 at home, after booting up, I > still have 2.8M free [2] My A500 is a pretty baseline system, I've only upped it to 1Mb chip. Still the A500 is an awsome machine. > >[2] And running 12 background processes as well! > >[3] A Unix-like OS originally written for the 6809 and available on the > 68000. I'm not sure if you can get it for other CPUs though. As for being a fanatical user I'd probably have to classify myself as a fanatical Anti-Microsoft computer user. I run UNIX on Intel, MacOS on Mac's, and AmigaOS Amiga's. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Feb 8 14:43:41 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: OpenVMS Hobbiest CD Message-ID: Does anyone know what format this CD is in? Someone I know has been trying to access his copy which he just got with no luck. I've not gotten a copy yet, but I'd been hoping to stick it in one of my Linux machines and NFS mount it on the VAX. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Feb 8 14:58:49 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: IDE interface for Commies In-Reply-To: <19980208153856.19021.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: >off, there should be no problem. About souping up Commodores, wouldn't >a 20MHZ CPU have a different instruction set than the original CPU and >thus require a different ROM? And if it has a changed ROM, then how is >it It's a Western Design W65C816S, basically it supports emulation of the processor used in the C64. >a Commodore? Where can I get info on this? How much RAM would these >super-Commies have? What CPU? http://www.cmdweb.com/index.phtml is the company making the SuperCPU, they also make 512k and 2Mb REU's, a 16Mb RAM Drive, Hard Drives, etc. Beware this stuff is expensive. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From engine at chac.org Sun Feb 8 15:00:41 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: New Amigas, Atari Clones In-Reply-To: References: <01bd3498$2166cae0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980208130041.010ca100@pop.batnet.com> At 12:19 2/8/98 -0800, you wrote: >....As for cost, even a used Atari is incredibly >expensive. About the best price I've seen on TT030's or Falcons is $500+. Alas. When Atari was sold to JTS it took a few days to sell off the inventory that JTS didn't want, and I was easy driving distance from the warehouse. They were selling TT030's, Falcons and Mega-4's for $200 a pop and I had cash in fist for one of each, but was a day too late. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sun Feb 8 16:06:52 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: OpenVMS Hobbiest CD In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 8, 98 12:43:41 pm Message-ID: <9802082206.AA14157@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1388 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980208/737f8163/attachment.ksh From william at ans.net Sun Feb 8 16:12:58 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64GS In-Reply-To: <199802081255.XAA03876@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: > It's been a reasonable week for me, computerwise. Other than being > offered a mainframe, which was fu What kind? And what is "fu" (except what I think it is)? William Donzelli william@ans.net From william at ans.net Sun Feb 8 16:24:35 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: PS/1 How Much? In-Reply-To: <199802050123.UAA05123@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: > Tis' true if you meant ECC parity but this is really OVERKILL in > consumer machines that we're using. My machine is happily running > for years on non-parity as long as the memory are top quality kind > and cover by life-time warrenty if possible. Mac are doing that for > years ever since first Apple II all the way to today's Mac PCI's. Yes, I would not think of adding full ECC to a home computer. Doing so would probably add $25 to the cost of producing the machine - something the marketing types would scream about because it really adds nothing for them to sell! Anyway, it would have been nice if PeeCees were made so a parity error would tell the BIOS (or DOS) to try to clean up and do a gracefull shutdown, rather than just reporting the error and halting. Many parity errors are soft errors, only effecting one bit of the memory, so there is a chance that the programs (or DOS) could react and do a little damage control. William Donzelli william@ans.net From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Feb 8 17:12:44 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: OpenVMS Hobbiest CD Message-ID: <199802082312.AA13285@world.std.com> >At 11:26 PM 2/7/98 +0930, you wrote: > >>Someone here has a couple of 64 GS's - I had only heard of them in >>passing before, and thus don't know their interest. I looked on the web > >Now I've heard of Apple II GS, but no C-64GS. It's a seriously cut down Commodore, apparantly. Intended as a cartridge-based games machine. From the little I know it had no keyboard and special joysticks with two fire buttons, the second of which replaced the space bar from the keyboard. But I think it could use standard C64 carts. Adam/ From adam at merlin.net.au Sat Feb 7 18:48:12 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (adam@merlin.net.au) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Commodore 64GS Message-ID: <199802082347.KAA13858@arthur.merlin.net.au> >> It's been a reasonable week for me, computerwise. Other than being >> offered a mainframe, which was fu > >What kind? And what is "fu" (except what I think it is)? Sorry. Fu was meant to be fun. I was offered a digital camera (or something similar) this week, which included a bonus VAX to run it. Out of my league, though. There is another mainframe I was offered a couple of weeks ago where they didn't know the brand, but I am thinking of going around to see it and work out if I can save it anyway, at least until a more appropriate owner comes along. The third, which I was refering to, was an AWA 5280 (I believe that was the number). I figure it may well be just a mini or something, but I know nothing about this and he did say Mainframe. :) Adam. From sethm at loomcom.com Sun Feb 8 18:04:57 1998 From: sethm at loomcom.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: Looking for VS2000 memory Message-ID: <199802090004.QAA00524@loomcom.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 440 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980208/25f84a1d/attachment.ksh From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Feb 8 19:37:59 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: OpenVMS Hobbiest CD In-Reply-To: <9802082206.AA14157@alph02.triumf.ca> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 8, 98 12:43:41 pm Message-ID: >Umm - OS? Command? Error message? It's hard to diagnose a problem >like this without this sort of information! He was trying it on his Solaris Box I believe. No idea what errors he was getting though, I gathered it just plain didn't see it. >NFS on Linux simply doesn't support the wide range of filetypes available >under traditional minicomputer OS's like VMS and RSX, so even if you could >read access CD's files you'd still be screwed. NFS works fine for flat files, >but just try moving an indexed file using NFS sometime and watch all the >indexing disappear! The only way to preserve this information when passing >through brain-dead Unix-type filesystems is to do it through container >files. Since you can now add support for the VMS filesystem to Linux, I was hoping that it would be able to then share the files via NFS to a VMS machine. Of course I have no idea how full-featured the VMS support under Linux is. I know using netatalk, I'm able to use my Linux server as a Appletalk server (with their resource forks Mac files are touchy). Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Feb 8 20:29:04 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:55 2005 Subject: OpenVMS Hobbiest CD Message-ID: <199802090229.AA09229@world.std.com> References: <199802050123.UAA05123@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199802090354.VAA29111@rgate.ricochet.net> In fact, there are some useful things you can do to ACTUALLY recover on computer running a reasonable operating system. Back in the late 60s and through 1981, Oregon State University ran an operating system (called humbly OS-3 (short for Oregon State Open Shop Operating System or OSOSOS)) but I digress. OS-3 ran on a Control Data 3300 which had been fixed to actually conform to the Control Data specifications for User/Supervisor operation. The operating system was written to be as reentrant as possible; all OS code (but a very small part pertaining to interrupt dispatch) was PURE (not self modifying.) This is noted, since the standard subroutine call (as was common those days) altered the first instruction of the subroutine to be a JUMP back to the calling code. I.e. there was no "stack" mechanism in hardware. Since the monitor code was not self modifying, the OS could at boot time compute an exclusive-or checksum for itself and save it for the occurrence of a parity error. Parity errors only reported the memory location of the error, not the actual value read. So when a parity error occurred and if it was in the monitor reentrant section, the OS could recompute the value of the bad location by exclusive-oring all the OTHER locations together and then exclusive-oring the computed monitor checksum. This reproduced the contents of the bad location, it was stored back at the address indicated by the parity check hardware and the OS resumed from the parity error interrupt. Of course, for user programs (which were seldom re-entrant) the OS just aborted the program with an error and went on about it's business. Consequently, the parity error interrupt was RARELY fatal (at least to the system at large. Individual users did occasionally complain when we had a memory stack that started to go bad, but didn't get bad enough to find with the overnight diagnostics.) This was all back in a day when ECC did exist, but it was Horribly Expensive (and this was compared to memory that cost about 1 to 2 dollars per byte.) Gary. At 05:24 PM 2/8/98 -0500, you wrote: >> Tis' true if you meant ECC parity but this is really OVERKILL in >> consumer machines that we're using. My machine is happily running >> for years on non-parity as long as the memory are top quality kind >> and cover by life-time warrenty if possible. Mac are doing that for >> years ever since first Apple II all the way to today's Mac PCI's. > >Yes, I would not think of adding full ECC to a home computer. Doing so >would probably add $25 to the cost of producing the machine - something >the marketing types would scream about because it really adds nothing for >them to sell! > >Anyway, it would have been nice if PeeCees were made so a parity error >would tell the BIOS (or DOS) to try to clean up and do a gracefull >shutdown, rather than just reporting the error and halting. Many parity >errors are soft errors, only effecting one bit of the memory, so there is >a chance that the programs (or DOS) could react and do a little damage >control. > >William Donzelli >william@ans.net > From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sun Feb 8 18:02:03 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Short Q (NOT!) on thinkpad 700 series. In-Reply-To: References: <199802050123.UAA05123@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: <199802090456.XAA03826@mail.cgocable.net> Hi guys! I'm envaluating that thinkpad 700C. Sheesh! TFT display /w 1mb XGA on board and someone changed the CPU for 486SLC2 50mhz, 16mb, superb keyboard with trackpoint, working NiMh battery that does quick charge in that deal as you will see later, but! This would be a problem for linux and I'm still prepared to live without PCMCIA feature for little longer. No problem finding inexpensive used 2.5" larger capacity hd with that stupid MCA interface and expect that to work with that series? The current hd is 120mb. No fun being haunted by joke hd for few years that Luddite did. Via internet searches; seemed very low popularity judging by # of enteries, true? Why? History case: Responded to a local newsgroup ad by a owner and picked it up for envaluation/repair as allowed by owner's choice not by my effect. $70 for complete dea, lyet to decide on it. I have repaired this notebook successfully after owner dropped it, cracking the case and tore both display mounting points (left back corner is complete break off, right is partial, only one post broken butthe display shell, hinge pins and it's associated mounting hardware are all dandy. Also these display, floppy, HD and circuit boards (!!) escaped the fate intact and no bad pixel to boot. Now my thoughts: Even if the case is good, I would have a notebook that would not meet all of my needs such as straight 486dx, IDE you got the idea for next notebook replacement for that old limping Luddite. Except for P75, still searching for my collection. Also, I'm not too sure after case is repaired and decides to resell it to recoup some enough $. Or $70 is terrific deal also find another notebook closer to my needs is worthy considering? Gee! I sounded stupid but I'd love to hear from everyone expert on IBM series here first. Thanks! Email or here if other prefers to. Jason D. PS: Compaq LTE 386s/20 given Luddite nickname. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Mon Feb 9 07:45:07 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Slipping sticks In-Reply-To: <01bd33b3$e1f16c60$22f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <13330959039.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [Circular Slide Rule] I found it! It was stuck in a box of Commodore 64 disks. Now, I have to find out how to USE it... Oh, and it says it was made by Consice, Inc, and there's no date to be found. It has a Caterpillar ad on the back side. It doesn't look old at all! ------- From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Feb 9 10:15:08 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980209101508.00b30e10@pc> allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: > >OpenVMS archaic? It's a current product and definatly a high end OS >and it includs DECnet networking. Heaven forbid I ever insult anyone's choice of OS. :-) The gist of my comments still stands, and I think it's highly appropriate to this list: without an established mechanism for the preservation of the rights of old software, or some process of stewardship of archaic software, computer collectors are often violating the copyrights of others. Joe wrote: >If you have the original disk then that is normally considered proof >that you have a legal copy of the software. I can argue with that. What about upgrades? If bought XYZ v1.0, then paid a special price to upgrade to v2.0, I don't have two copies. Technically, the company doesn't allow you to resell v1.0 as its own package. It's true of many of today's packages, and I'm sure it's true of any old mainframe/mini OS license, too. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Feb 9 10:23:57 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980209102357.009bf100@pc> "Zane H. Healy" wrote: >Not quite, there is still the Amiga, now owned by Gateway 2000. In fact >I'm in the process of upgrading my A3000 (almost a classic) with a HiRes I've got my old Amiga 1000 in the basement, with a serial number in the 30s. Circa 1986, it qualifies, no? - John Jefferson Computer Museum From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Feb 9 11:08:15 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: 3270pc, 5272, 5271 stuff wanted Message-ID: <9801098870.AA887073494@compsci.powertech.co.uk> I haven't got time to reply in detail, but be warned. 1. The IBM cards that went in the 3270PC range were _not_ the same as those they sold as upgrades - the latter drove ordinary displays, etc. 2. There were many popular 3rd party 3270 (3278/3279) emulator cards available, the best known being IRMA. Philip BTW I was wrong about the 5272 - it is 720 x 350 x 8 resolution. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Tony. I just happened to have my cards out for cleaning. Yours seems a bit different. I wonder if it's earlier or an expansion card for the pc/xt to give it 3270 comm capability. My connection card has: The BNC 2x8435 a BUNCH of gates or st, these 74L??? no memory that I can see (the computer has 640k) a clock/crystal marked 14.1523 mhz (1589449) Some IBM chips 2x 5617135 ???? I dunno... Mike Tony Duell wrote: > I have what I believe to be an interface card from a 3270 PC here. It's a > full-length 8 bit card with PC/3278 on it. The main chips are : > N8X305N (microcontroller) > 3 off ROMs (15527-15529, Copyright 1983) > 4 off 6116 RAM > DP8340 and DP8341 (Some kind of interface chip...) > Assorted TTL glue > Passives, including a reed relay > > There's a single BNC connector on the bracket. There's also an expansion > edge connector at the top front, which seems to be linked to the ROM > pins/the microcontroller. > > -tony From rigdonj at intellistar.net Mon Feb 9 12:17:43 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980209101508.00b30e10@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980209121743.4437156a@intellistar.net> At 10:15 AM 2/9/98 -0600, you wrote: >allisonp@world.std.com (Allison J Parent) wrote: >>>> >>OpenVMS archaic? It's a current product and definatly a high end OS >>and it includs DECnet networking. > >Heaven forbid I ever insult anyone's choice of OS. :-) The gist of my >comments still stands, and I think it's highly appropriate to this >list: without an established mechanism for the preservation of the >rights of old software, or some process of stewardship of archaic >software, computer collectors are often violating the copyrights >of others. > >Joe wrote: >>If you have the original disk then that is normally considered proof >>that you have a legal copy of the software. > >I can argue with that. What about upgrades? If bought XYZ v1.0, >then paid a special price to upgrade to v2.0, I don't have two copies. You should have two copies. one V 1 and one V 2. Most upgrades require that you have an operating copy of the prior version already installed before they will install. If they don't then they're not upgrades, they're a complete package of a latter version. If it is a complete package of a latter version then you're free to do whatever you like with the old version. (That's not entirely true, it depends on what you *agree* to when you bought the package. And shrink wrapped "agreements" don't count). >Technically, the company doesn't allow you to resell v1.0 as its >own package. True. But who would want to buy it anyway? So it's a mote point. It's true of many of today's packages, and I'm sure >it's true of any old mainframe/mini OS license, too. > >- John You're trying to read too much into this. I never said the having one copy of disks allowed you to have all the upgrades or newer versions. If you have a set of original disks for XYZ v 1.0, then that is generally considered proof of ownership of XYZ v 1.0 PERIOD. Joe From cgregory at lrbcg.com Mon Feb 9 11:49:14 1998 From: cgregory at lrbcg.com (Cliff Gregory) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Altair Auctions Message-ID: <00f301bd3583$0a16dba0$aa27a2ce@cliffgre> I thought the list might be interested in the feeding frenzy occurring at eBay ( http://www.ebay.com ) over some Altairs and associated hardware/software. This is going to be very interesting to watch. The Altair 8800a is up to almost $500.00 in just twelve hours. Cliff Gregory cgregory@lrbcg.com More information on the Altair auction items. They have (finally!) all been posted to www.ebay.com in the Hardware:General section. Most of the items have been posted, but a couple have not. If you are looking for a particular item, check the list below, the URL for each of the items is listed. There have been several requests for copies of some of the items. I don't have a way to copy the disks, can anyone help out with that? If you can, please let me know. Feel free to e-mail me with questions. Thanks again for your patience and support. Joe -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 1 - Altair 8800a -------------------- Altair 8800a - No Serial Number on case Front Panel with LEDs and Toggle Switches S-100 Bus (18 slots) Note on inside: No +8V @ 8VA from terminal strip to motherboard Remove spare BL + WT wire Board 1- Vector 8800V No components, wired to front panel Board 2 - MITS CPU BD Rev 1 Intel 8080 CPU on board Board 3 - Processor Technology Corp (C) 1977 GPM PC210001 Rev C Assy No. 210000 PCA 18-7 Board 4 - IMSAI Mfg. Corp RAM-4A Rev 3 Board 5 - MITS Disk #2 Rev 0-X2 Board 6 - MITS Disk BD 1 Rev 0-X3 Board 7 - Processor Technology Corp (C) 1976 S/No. 124783 3P + S I/O Rev a Board 8 - MITS 88-2 SIO REV 0 Bag of Misc Parts http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5857130 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 2 - Altair 8800b #1 ----------------------- Altair 8800b - No Serial Number on case Front Panel with LEDs and Toggle Switches, one switch broken, one switch bent (but still works) S-100 Bus (15 slots installed) Board 1 - MITS (C) 1976 D/C INT Rev 0 Board 2 - MITS 8800B CPU BD Rev 0 Intel 8080 Microprocessor Board 3, 4, 5 - DRC Dallas, TX (C) 1978 Memory Board, 32 chips each of 2114L2PC F 8139 P Board 6 - Processor Technology Corp (C) 1977 GPM PC21001 Rev C Assy No 210000 Board 7 - MITS MITS 8800 PROM Bd Rev 0 MITS 8800 PMC Rev 0 Chips labeled: VMTST V 2.2 BE00 MITS DBL BF00 Board 8 - Processor Technology Corp (C) 1976 VDM 1 Rev D Coaxial Connector attached to back plate Board 9 - Processor Technology Corp (C) 1976 CUTS rev B Serial # 115802 Board 10 - Processor Technology Corp (C) 1976 3P + S I/O Rev A Serial # 124764 Bag of Misc Parts Weight 30 lbs. http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5857904 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 3 - Altair 8800b #2 System ------------------------------ Altair 8800b Serial # 5400775K Front Panel with LEDs and Toggle Switches, one switch broken Power supply missing Capacitor, with disconnected cables S-100 Bus (11 slots installed) Board 1 - MITS (C) 1976 D/C INT Rev 0 Board 2 - MITS 8800B CPU BD Rev 0 Intel 8080 Microprocessor Bag of Misc Parts http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5858380 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 4 - MITS 8" Disk Drive -------------------------- MITS 8" Floppy Drive in case Serial # DD0217 Pertec FD400 inside case Part #920063-01 Serial # 365507098 MITS Disk Buffer board inside 37-pin connectors (female and male) http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5858679 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 5 - PROM Programmer + Card ------------------------------ Altair PROM Programmer Serial # C11405 24-pin ZIF socket on front with handle DB-25 (male) connector on back MITS PPRG-INT Rev 0 S-100 Card DB-25 connected to board http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5859054 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 6 - 88-2 Card ----------------- MITS 88-2 SIO Rev 0 S-100 Card http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5859609 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 7 - 8800 PMC Card --------------------- MITS 8800 PMC Rev 0 S-100 Card 800Prom BD Rev 0 Populated with seven PROM chips http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5859874 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 8 - Disk Controller Card Set -------------------------------- MITS (Set of two S-100 Cards) MITS Disk BD 1 Rev 0-X3 MITS Disk #2 Rev 0-X2 http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5860149 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 9 - 88VI(RTC) Card ---------------------- MITS Inc. 88-VI(RTC) Rev 0 S-100 Card Pat Pending (c) 1977 Main Chip labeled Intel C8214 S1260 P4920 http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5860422 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 10 - 88-4 Card ------------------ MITS 88-4 PIO Rev 0 S-100 Card Main Chip Motorola MC6820L 76350 http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5860662 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 11 - 88SIOB Card -------------------- MITS (88 SIOB) Serial-TTL S-100 Card with daughterboard daughterboard is: MITS MODEM BD http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5860943 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 12 - Manual --------------- MITS Manual (only a part, missing several chapters) altair 8800b Section IV Troubleshooting May 1977 Some schematics, missing pages Not for sale Yet -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 13 - Cassette Software -------------------------- MITS SW-EXTM - Cassette Tape Altair Extended BASIC Version 4.1 February 1, 1977 2400/1850 Hz (c) 1976 MITS, Inc. MITS SW-DBLC - Cassette Tape Altair Disk Boot Loader Version 4.1 May 1, 1977 2400/1850HZ Copyright 1977 MITS, Inc. Altair EXT BASIC Rev 3.2 Cassette February 1976 Copyright 1975 Boot Loc 1=256 Boot Loc 2=57 Realistic Cassette with Label (Same label as paper tapes, Original?) Altair Package II Cassette (2 copies, one labeled Cassette Sticks) Rev 3.0 June 76 2400/1850 HZ Copyright MITS 1976 Maxell C46 Cassette (Same label as paper tapes, Original?) Not for sale yet -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 14 - Box of 30+ Cassettes ------------------------- Box of 30+ Cassette Tapes, not original, saved programs Hand labeled or with notes on each cassette tape Including: CROS P A000 2000 - Cassette Tape O-42 Counter Cromemco Resident Operating System Z-80 Not for sale yet -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 15 - Paper Tape Software ---------------------------- Altair Extended BASIC - Paper Tape Rev 4.0 February 25, 1977 Copyright 1976 by MITS, Inc. Assembler/ROS - Paper Tape Order Number ZA-PT Copyright 1977 Cromemco Processor Technology - Paper Tape Software #1 PT80-13 TSC 8080 Reloctor - Paper Tape (c) 1978 By Technical Systems Consultants, Inc. Box 2574 W. Layayette, IN 47906 Cromemco Z-80 Monitor V 1.0 - Paper Tape E000-E3FF (c) 1976 Cromemco ALT-2480 Intelligent Terminal Demonstration - Paper Tape (c) 1978 Vincent C. Jones Processor Technology - Paper Tape 5K BASIC BASIC-VDM Driver - Paper Tape Software Processor Technology - Paper Tape Software VDM Driver http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5861229 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 16 - Floppy Disk Software ----------------------------- CP/M on Altair - 8" Floppy Disk (c) 1977, 1978, 1979 Digital Research (c) 1977, 1978, 1979 Lifeboat Associates Version 1.41 S/N 81-2097 with manual - CP/M on MITS DISK User Notes Revision 1.0 April 27, 1979 Altair Disk Operating System - 8" Floppy Disk Version 1.0 May 5, 19777 Copyright 1977 by MITS INC. http://komodo.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5861450 -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 17 - Hacked Case -------------------- Altair Case - with power supply, NO Top Cover, no serial number Very hacked up, black faceplate on front, not original reset and power switches on front Openings on front for two 5.25" full height drives Altair S-100 Bus Replaced with Cromemco 8-slot S-100 Blitz Bus Power supply modified to use 5.25" drive power connectors Not for sale Yet ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Lot 18 - 8" Drives ------------------ 8" Floppy Drives (2), in Rack Mount cases Pertec Drives inside Model No. FD400 U2 Part No. 920003-01 (2) 37-pin D connectors on back Homebrew(?) Disk buffer board on inside looks similar to MITS disk buffer board. One drive labeled Disk 0 the other is Disk 1 Power switch and Indicator LEDs on front panel Not for sale Yet -------------------------------------------------------------------------- From henrio at edu.tsai.es Thu Feb 5 14:50:06 1998 From: henrio at edu.tsai.es (Sergio Izquierdo Garcia) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: >Recent finds Message-ID: <34DA25FE.132A61BD@edu.tsai.es> Hello all: Last week I got a toshiba T-100, with two 5.25" disk drives and a monochrome monitor. It starts up with Basic. Anybody knows if this system can run CP/M? Another question: I own an IBM system 36. It has two hard disk drives, 105 MB each, and a tape cartridge drive. Could anybody tell me if these drives are SCSI? Thanks in advance. -- Sergio Izquierdo Garcia mailto:henrio@edu.tsai.es From go at ao.com Mon Feb 9 13:12:52 1998 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: iAPX 432 manuals available to a good home. In-Reply-To: <34DA25FE.132A61BD@edu.tsai.es> Message-ID: <199802091915.LAA09824@office.ao.com> Free (you pay shipping) to a good home: iAPX 432 General Data Processor Architecture Reference Manual (1.5" thick) iAPX 432 Interconnect Architecture Reference Manual (1" thick) iAPX 432 Object Primer (.5" thick) Also (and unrelated to above) Callan Data Systems Unistar 100 Intelligent View Terminal User's manual (.4" thick) Callan Data Systems Unistar System Reference Manual (.5" thick) [note: Callan Data Systems made a Unix (V7) workstation in the early 80s] Please direct responses to me personally at go@ao.com I'm in Corvallis, Oregon, so a local pickup is preferred. But if someone further away wants this stuff, feel free to inquire. All I ask is you pay the freight to receive it. Cheapest would be library 4th class for a few bucks, I presume. Thanks, Gary. From go at ao.com Mon Feb 9 14:38:48 1998 From: go at ao.com (Gary Oliver) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: iAPX 432 manuals available to a good home. In-Reply-To: <199802091915.LAA09824@office.ao.com> References: <34DA25FE.132A61BD@edu.tsai.es> Message-ID: <199802092041.MAA11104@office.ao.com> The manuals have been taken. Thanks, Gary. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Feb 9 14:42:18 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Portables Message-ID: <19980209204218.29055.qmail@hotmail.com> Does anyone have any portable computers that are 15lb or less that they could give or sell to me? This includes Z88, Intel stuff, etc. Not the Mac Portable, since I have that. Preferrably, I would like something that could run without being plugged in (having replaced the battery :). Anyone have an IBM Convertible? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From red at bears.org Mon Feb 9 16:04:36 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Sun 3/50 and Shoebox In-Reply-To: <199802070453.UAA26744@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 6 Feb 1998, Frank McConnell wrote: > Given that this is a Sun 3, I would re-set them for disk ID = 0 and > tape ID = 4. At that point, you should be able to get to the monitor Historically speaking, Suns expect the boot device to be at ID 3. ok r. From fmc at reanimators.org Mon Feb 9 17:36:31 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Sun 3/50 and Shoebox In-Reply-To: John Ruschmeyer's message of Sun, 08 Feb 1998 08:41:56 -0500 References: <3.0.5.32.19980208084156.0080de20@hiway1.exit109.com> Message-ID: <199802092336.PAA05210@daemonweed.reanimators.org> John Ruschmeyer wrote: > Actually, you may want to set the disk to ID 3. SunOS does this weird > swapping of ID 0 and ID 3. Somebody posted the historical reason a while > back to comp.sys.sun.hardware, but I believe it had to to with 3 being the > likely address of another sort of device. Y'all are gonna make me pull aphasia out of storage and set it up to look at the generic 4.1.1 config file for the Sun 3, aren't you? My recollection is that this was changed about the time Sun started shipping SPARC workstations that were likely to have internal disks. (Or was it with the 3/80? That could also have internal disks.) I first ran across it when I had to deal with SPARCstation IPCs and found that the kernel config file mapped sd0 to SCSI ID 3 (and that systems shipped with an internal disk tended to come with the internal disk's SCSI ID set to 3). My guess as to the reason for this was that a number of these systems were displacing older Sun 3/50 and 3/60s with external shoeboxes, where the disk in the shoebox was set to SCSI ID 0. The old Sun 3 would go away but its shoebox would stay behind, and the user would get the bright idea to plug it into the new SPARCstation for a little more disk space. The 0<->3 swap made this work a little bit more smoothly by avoiding the need for the user to open up the shoebox and switch the SCSI ID, as well as the service call required to explain this need. -Frank McConnell From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Sun Feb 8 12:39:13 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: New Amigas, Atari Clones In-Reply-To: <01bd3498$2166cae0$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <199802092349.SAA12478@smtp.interlog.com> On 8 Feb 98 at 16:47, Hotze wrote: > OK... where can I get the Atari clones? > It's hard to believe that they're's anyone more emotional than a Mac > fanatic... anyway... please give me more info. Also, how much will it cost > me? > Ciao, > > Tim D. Hotze > -----Original Message----- > From: Zane H. Healy In N.A. , Computer Direct in Calgary, Alberta does an Atari Falcon clone for around $3000. I believe it uses a 68040. There are several european mfgs. One is called "the Hades" and another out of France IIRC "the Medusa". Do a Web search and/or check out the comp.sys.atari.st newsgroup. Fabulous machines, but pricey. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Mon Feb 9 18:41:17 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Short Q (NOT!) on thinkpad 700 series. Message-ID: <7933c038.34dfa22f@aol.com> thinkpad 700 and 720x are mca thinkpads. had a 3 year warranty and dont share any parts with any other thinkpad. of course, windont95 wont work on them, although linux probably would since it's been coaxed to work on other mca boxes. david From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Feb 9 20:20:33 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Web pages are up (sorta) Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980209144200.624fb682@ricochet.net> Thanks to all who responded to my earlier plea for info about some of the computers I've got in my collection! I've got the pages up (and fixed the "\" <> "/" problem) for a dozen or so computers. Anyway, any info, comments, suggestions, criticism, flames, etc. always welcome. The page is at for them what's interested. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Feb 9 20:21:52 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980209145747.624f99e6@ricochet.net> At 01:43 AM 2/7/98 -0800, you wrote: >Does any one know what type of printer ribbon can fit onto an original adam >(Colecovision)printer (ginerec one I thought Was a deablo hytype but it wont >fit. >And where to get one from I live in Castlegar, British Columbia Canada. Try American Ink ( I believe); they carry ribbons for a lot of older printers. (Ran across them while researching one of the computers in my collection on the web, but have known of them for years; very highly recommended in local Atari circles.) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Feb 9 20:22:05 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: New Amigas, Atari Clones Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980209172649.627771c8@ricochet.net> At 08:10 PM 2/7/98 -0800, you wrote: >As for the Atari, the clones are coming out of Germany, and mainly targeted >at the Music industry. The Atari's have built in Midi. I've a couple, and Not only Midi, but also great software and (Falcon (68030) and beyond) a DSP port for right-out-of-the-box direct-to-disk digitial recording. Cubase Audio (about $600 new, I think) gave you 16 channels of digital recording. (included software wasn't serious and only gave you two channels.) All you needed was a lot of diskspace and something to record. When the Falcon came out, it was one of the only affordable D2D solutions available. And now, with CD-Recorders running around left and right... --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Mon Feb 9 20:27:40 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: More info requested Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980209182501.64df7924@ricochet.net> Okay, I'm working on the next batch of computers for my web pages, and am looking for any anecdotes, links, resources, or specs relating to these computers: Compaq Portable 386 HP 75D Iasis Computer-in-a-book (8080) Panasonic Senior Partner Amstrad PC-20 NEC Starlet Panasonic HHC Seequa Chameleon Sharp PC-4 TI Compact Computer 40 Specifically, the data points I list in my specs table are: {mfr} {location} {model} {processor} {speed} {opsys} {bits-int} {bits-data} {ram-min} {ram-max} {rom} {input} {display} {stor-cas} {stor-fdd} {stor-hdd} {ports-ser} {ports-par} {ports-kbd} {ports-joy} {ports-oth} {expansion} {intro} {discon} {cost} {size} {weight} {power-volt} {power-conn} {power-polar} {notes} A lot of these I can pull from the machines themselves myself as I sit down to do each one, and for some I have manuals, but I really appreciate any info anyone can offer. Also, stories of your experiences buying one new, or how you always wanted one, or rumours, or what have are definitely welcome. Thanks! --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From adam at merlin.net.au Sun Feb 8 22:18:20 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/10 question Message-ID: <199802100317.NAA09122@arthur.merlin.net.au> Hi! I was just offered a Lisa 2/10, which I will happily accept. I do have the 2/5 but the second would be nice, albiet a tad greedy. :) However he wants me to name my own price, and said that it wasn't working. Apparantly the self test and stuff works, but it doesn't boot up - I assume this to be a problem with the hard drive, but imagine that it could be something else. Does the 2/10 have the battery problem found on the 2/5, and is this particular error the sort of thing that can be repaired given that it does start? I had imagined that a serious error would not allow it to start at all. :) If it can't be easily fixed I'll probably buy it anyway, but I don't want to offer too much (as I have almost no money) but I definitly want to save it. Thanks heaps, Adam. From jrkeys at concentric.net Mon Feb 9 21:34:52 1998 From: jrkeys at concentric.net (John R. Keys Jr.) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/10 question In-Reply-To: <199802100317.NAA09122@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980209213452.006b915c@pop3.concentric.net> Here Lisa's non-working go for free to $20 most of the time $5. Hope this helps. John Keep Computing !! At 01:48 PM 2/9/98 +0930, you wrote: >Hi! > >I was just offered a Lisa 2/10, which I will happily accept. I do have >the 2/5 but the second would be nice, albiet a tad greedy. :) However he >wants me to name my own price, and said that it wasn't working. >Apparantly the self test and stuff works, but it doesn't boot up - I >assume this to be a problem with the hard drive, but imagine that it >could be something else. Does the 2/10 have the battery problem found on >the 2/5, and is this particular error the sort of thing that can be >repaired given that it does start? I had imagined that a serious error >would not allow it to start at all. :) If it can't be easily fixed I'll >probably buy it anyway, but I don't want to offer too much (as I have >almost no money) but I definitly want to save it. > >Thanks heaps, > >Adam. > > From aaron at prinsol.com Mon Feb 9 22:03:38 1998 From: aaron at prinsol.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Short Q (NOT!) on thinkpad 700 series. In-Reply-To: <7933c038.34dfa22f@aol.com> Message-ID: Actually, Win95 runs fine, with the exception of PCMCIA support. If you don't mind using dos PCMCIA drivers, you're fine. Although I believe that the 700c will only run in 16 colours under Windows. We still use a couple of those rugged little 720's as portable scanning units with W95/pcmcia scsi adapters; you can't beat the warranty or the return service! Aaron On Mon, 9 Feb 1998 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > thinkpad 700 and 720x are mca thinkpads. had a 3 year warranty and dont share > any parts with any other thinkpad. of course, windont95 wont work on them, > although linux probably would since it's been coaxed to work on other mca > boxes. > > david > From jruschme at exit109.com Mon Feb 9 22:38:04 1998 From: jruschme at exit109.com (John Ruschmeyer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/10 question In-Reply-To: <199802100317.NAA09122@arthur.merlin.net.au> from Adam Jenkins at "Feb 9, 98 01:48:20 pm" Message-ID: <199802100438.XAA02047@tigger.exit109.com> > I was just offered a Lisa 2/10, which I will happily accept. I do have > the 2/5 but the second would be nice, albiet a tad greedy. :) However he > wants me to name my own price, and said that it wasn't working. > Apparantly the self test and stuff works, but it doesn't boot up - I > assume this to be a problem with the hard drive, but imagine that it > could be something else. Does the 2/10 have the battery problem found on > the 2/5, and is this particular error the sort of thing that can be > repaired given that it does start? I had imagined that a serious error > would not allow it to start at all. :) If it can't be easily fixed I'll > probably buy it anyway, but I don't want to offer too much (as I have > almost no money) but I definitly want to save it. The non-working Widget (10MB drive) may or may not be a real problem. According to Lary Pina's original book on Mac repair, there is a common problem where the brake solenoid goes out of adjustment (listen for the "snap" when the drive comes on), it is easily adjusted, however. In the case of my own 2/10, however, one of the boards of the drive logic (interface) failed. I figured this out by board swapping when I finally got a working drive. Personally, I'd offer $20 as a starting point. See where it goes from there... <<>> From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 9 22:53:54 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/10 question In-Reply-To: <199802100317.NAA09122@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: >Apparantly the self test and stuff works, but it doesn't boot up - I >assume this to be a problem with the hard drive, but imagine that it Sounds like my 2/5. It wouldn't boot until I loaded software onto the Hard Drive. Maybe you'll be lucky and that's all it needs. Something tells me a hard drive for a 2/10 would be hard to replace, but I might be wrong. >could be something else. Does the 2/10 have the battery problem found on >the 2/5, and is this particular error the sort of thing that can be Apparently this problem is only with the 2/5, although quite honestly that doesn't really make much sense. As for what it's worth, can't say. I've _Never_ seen Lisa's around here, I got mine off the Internet. The fact it's not working means not much. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From mallison at konnections.com Mon Feb 9 23:16:27 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: 3270pc, 5272, 5271 stuff wanted References: <9801098870.AA887073494@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: <34DFE2AA.71F4@konnections.com> Right, the 3270pc cards were merely "communications" cards to connect you to the mainframe ala the 3270 terminal... -Mike Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk wrote: > > I haven't got time to reply in detail, but be warned. > > 1. The IBM cards that went in the 3270PC range were _not_ the same as > those they sold as upgrades - the latter drove ordinary displays, etc. > > 2. There were many popular 3rd party 3270 (3278/3279) emulator cards > available, the best known being IRMA. > > Philip > > BTW I was wrong about the 5272 - it is 720 x 350 x 8 resolution. > > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > Tony. > > I just happened to have my cards out for cleaning. > > Yours seems a bit different. I wonder if it's earlier or an expansion > card for the pc/xt to give it 3270 comm capability. > > My connection card has: > > The BNC > 2x8435 > a BUNCH of gates or st, these 74L??? > no memory that I can see (the computer has 640k) > a clock/crystal marked 14.1523 mhz (1589449) > Some IBM chips > 2x 5617135 > > ???? > > I dunno... > > Mike > > Tony Duell wrote: > > I have what I believe to be an interface card from a 3270 PC here. It's a > > full-length 8 bit card with PC/3278 on it. The main chips are : > > N8X305N (microcontroller) > > 3 off ROMs (15527-15529, Copyright 1983) > > 4 off 6116 RAM > > DP8340 and DP8341 (Some kind of interface chip...) > > Assorted TTL glue > > Passives, including a reed relay > > > > There's a single BNC connector on the bracket. There's also an expansion > > edge connector at the top front, which seems to be linked to the ROM > > pins/the microcontroller. > > > > -tony From mallison at konnections.com Mon Feb 9 23:30:31 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: i86 Development Set Message-ID: <34DFE5F7.37AD@konnections.com> Anyone know where I can acquire an Intel i86 and/or i286 development set with software (asm, link, etc) and docs? Used is fine, of course, but the software must be intact. Thanks, Mike (I'm in Utah, BTW if anyone has one close...) Thanks... From dastar at wco.com Mon Feb 9 23:36:42 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/10 question In-Reply-To: <199802100317.NAA09122@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Adam Jenkins wrote: > I was just offered a Lisa 2/10, which I will happily accept. I do have > the 2/5 but the second would be nice, albiet a tad greedy. :) However he > wants me to name my own price, and said that it wasn't working. > Apparantly the self test and stuff works, but it doesn't boot up - I > assume this to be a problem with the hard drive, but imagine that it > could be something else. Does the 2/10 have the battery problem found on > the 2/5, and is this particular error the sort of thing that can be > repaired given that it does start? I had imagined that a serious error > would not allow it to start at all. :) If it can't be easily fixed I'll > probably buy it anyway, but I don't want to offer too much (as I have > almost no money) but I definitly want to save it. Given all you've said, I'd offer him $100. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From mallison at konnections.com Tue Feb 10 00:22:48 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/10 question References: Message-ID: <34DFF238.5118@konnections.com> I have a couple of old 10's floating around, what kind did the Lisa have? -Mike Zane H. Healy wrote: > > >Apparantly the self test and stuff works, but it doesn't boot up - I > >assume this to be a problem with the hard drive, but imagine that it > > Sounds like my 2/5. It wouldn't boot until I loaded software onto the Hard > Drive. Maybe you'll be lucky and that's all it needs. Something tells me > a hard drive for a 2/10 would be hard to replace, but I might be wrong. > > >could be something else. Does the 2/10 have the battery problem found on > >the 2/5, and is this particular error the sort of thing that can be > > Apparently this problem is only with the 2/5, although quite honestly that > doesn't really make much sense. > > As for what it's worth, can't say. I've _Never_ seen Lisa's around here, I > got mine off the Internet. The fact it's not working means not much. > > Zane > > | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | > | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | > | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | > +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ > | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | > | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | > | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | > | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Feb 9 19:33:02 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Lisa 2/10 question In-Reply-To: <199802100317.NAA09122@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: <199802100627.BAA23617@mail.cgocable.net> > Hi! > Big Snip! > > Thanks heaps, > > Adam. > Adam, Did the HD symbol shows series of lines with a check with cross on it? And could you hear the hd spin up after the clunk? Could be the hard drive brake out of adjustment, this is repairable. Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Mon Feb 9 19:46:11 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Short Q (NOT!) on thinkpad 700 series. In-Reply-To: References: <7933c038.34dfa22f@aol.com> Message-ID: <199802100640.BAA25392@mail.cgocable.net> > Actually, Win95 runs fine, with the exception of PCMCIA support. If you > don't mind using dos PCMCIA drivers, you're fine. Although I believe that > the 700c will only run in 16 colours under Windows. We still use a couple > of those rugged little 720's as portable scanning units with W95/pcmcia > scsi adapters; you can't beat the warranty or the return service! > > Aaron Aaron, are you sure it supports PCMCIA? This notebook has none, it's so old and still in MCA age. :) Oh, by the way, I will contact you soon when I conclude the deal with owner of this wrecked notebook. Should be a day or so. BTW, some top-tier current notebooks if looked carefully have 3 year warrenty too and can be brought extended warrenties on some of in current warrentied stuff. But be careful with Toshibas, they're out to pull your leg especially on warrenty and faulty s/w especially when making one-shot disk sets sometimes blew up. If one did their pointed researches first then no problem. > On Mon, 9 Feb 1998 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > > thinkpad 700 and 720x are mca thinkpads. had a 3 year warranty and dont share > > any parts with any other thinkpad. of course, windont95 wont work on them, > > although linux probably would since it's been coaxed to work on other mca > > boxes. That 700C has the win 3.1 installed. > > > > david > > Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From dastar at wco.com Tue Feb 10 01:10:49 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: More books added to the library Message-ID: One finds the best stuff at thrift stores. Check out what I found today: The Anatomy of the 1541 Disk Drive By Abacus Software, 1984 ISBN: 0-916439-01-1 It contains a full description of the file system, the file structure, the file commands, and also has a full 6502 assembler listing for the drive's ROM! Very cool. This book apparently also came with a "Test/Demo" disk but the programs are printed in the book so they can be duplicated. What a treasure. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From aaron at prinsol.com Tue Feb 10 01:59:18 1998 From: aaron at prinsol.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Short Q (NOT!) on thinkpad 700 series. In-Reply-To: <199802100640.BAA25392@mail.cgocable.net> Message-ID: Sorry, my mistake. I forgot that the 700 is sans pcmcia. The 720's have 2 card slots, which will only work with dos drivers. I used an Adaptec (Trantor) parallel scsi on it, with some difficulties. Beware the parallel ports on these; I have been through some trying times with various scsi/network adapters only to be told by the manufacturers that their products did not support this series' "non-standard" ports. Do any IBM guru's out there know how this port differs from the "standard"? On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 jpero@cgo.wave.ca wrote: > Aaron, are you sure it supports PCMCIA? This notebook has none, it's > so old and still in MCA age. :) > > Jason D. > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca > Pero, Jason D. > From adavie at mad.scientist.com Tue Feb 10 05:40:26 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Contex-30 electromechanical calculator Message-ID: <01bd3618$adfe96a0$53f438cb@nostromo> Recent postings about old calculating machines and their operation has prompted me to fire up a web page with some information on my Contex-30 electromechanical calculator. For now I have some images up and have transcribed the operating instructions on the back. I am sure many of you will be stunned by how division is performed on this device; in any case, I welcome comments on the page, the calculator, and the idea of creating a museum for my other calculating devices. Myself, I collect precisely this sort of wierd technology. Boy, they sure don't make them like THAT anymore. Thank goodness :) Please visit Wierd Computing Machines http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/wierd/ Cheers Andrew Davie adavie@mad.scientist.com PS: You may also like to visit my other two sites.. Museum of Soviet Calculators http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/calculator/soviet.html Slide Rule Trading Post http://www.comcen.com.au/~adavie/slide/ From jfoust at threedee.com Tue Feb 10 09:07:57 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980210090757.00b55640@pc> Joe wrote: >If you have the original disk then that is normally considered proof >that you have a legal copy of the software. ... > You're trying to read too much into this. I never said the having one >copy of disks allowed you to have all the upgrades or newer versions. If >you have a set of original disks for XYZ v 1.0, then that is generally >considered proof of ownership of XYZ v 1.0 PERIOD. OK, let's say I pull an old PC and some boxes out of a dumpster, and there's a set of original AutoCAD Release 9 disks. By your rule, how can I tell if I own a legit copy or not? - John Jefferson Computer Museum From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 10 10:43:00 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980210090757.00b55640@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980210104300.493f802c@intellistar.net> At 09:07 AM 2/10/98 -0600, you wrote: >Joe wrote: >>If you have the original disk then that is normally considered proof >>that you have a legal copy of the software. >... >> You're trying to read too much into this. I never said the having one >>copy of disks allowed you to have all the upgrades or newer versions. If >>you have a set of original disks for XYZ v 1.0, then that is generally >>considered proof of ownership of XYZ v 1.0 PERIOD. > >OK, let's say I pull an old PC and some boxes out of a dumpster, and >there's a set of original AutoCAD Release 9 disks. By your rule, how >can I tell if I own a legit copy or not? Real simple. It they're original disks then it's a legit copy! Doesn't matter if it came from a dumpster or not. > >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum > > From kroma at worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 10 10:31:23 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? Message-ID: <028401bd3641$55668c40$64f8430a@kroma-i> >>OK, let's say I pull an old PC and some boxes out of a dumpster, and >>there's a set of original AutoCAD Release 9 disks. By your rule, how >>can I tell if I own a legit copy or not? > > Real simple. It they're original disks then it's a legit copy! Doesn't >matter if it came from a dumpster or not. > Though some software manufactures would like you to officially transfer the license to a new party. It's usually buried in the fine print of the software agreement. -- Kirk From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 10 11:46:53 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? In-Reply-To: <028401bd3641$55668c40$64f8430a@kroma-i> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980210114653.48df5412@intellistar.net> At 11:31 AM 2/10/98 -0500, you wrote: > >>>OK, let's say I pull an old PC and some boxes out of a dumpster, and >>>there's a set of original AutoCAD Release 9 disks. By your rule, how >>>can I tell if I own a legit copy or not? >> >> Real simple. It they're original disks then it's a legit copy! Doesn't >>matter if it came from a dumpster or not. >> > > >Though some software manufactures would like you to officially transfer the >license to a new party. It's usually buried in the fine print of the >software agreement. That's true. And some try to tell you that you can't transfer it at all. But unless you specificly agreed to that BEFORE you bought the software they can't hold you to it. The shrink-wrapped "agreements" are completely worthless. The US federal courts have made that ruling several times. I haven't heard of any company even trying argue that in at least ten years. That stuff falls in the same catagory as the movie tickets that say "not responsible for accident or injury while on our premises". Joe > > > -- Kirk > > > From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Tue Feb 10 14:04:29 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Looking for Codex info/Bookshelf update Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980210120429.00917af0@mail.wfi-inc.com> An exciting thrift day for me; I found a book I've been looking for for a while now - the "Applesoft BASIC Programmer's Reference Manual" for the Apple II. It's a hardcover in perfect condition, even the tear-out reference card is intact! I got that and one from Digital press, "Technical Aspects of Data Communication, 2nd edition" (1982), both for about 2 bucks. I happened along a Motorola/Codex 2131 csu/dsu. Anybody know anything about this little beauty? I couldn't find much on the 'net about it, but it's obviously a 9600b csu/dsu with a nifty design. Cheers, Aaron From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Tue Feb 10 14:26:47 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Mac hi-res monitor Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980210122647.00933a80@mail.wfi-inc.com> Does anyone need a Mac mono monitor? Model number MO400, circa 1987. Best offer takes it, no matter how pathetic. Recipient either pays shipping or picks it up in the LA area (it's not heavy at all, I can't imagine that ups ground would be more than a few bucks on this thing). Aaron From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon Feb 9 12:30:36 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Print Director MS manual Message-ID: <199802102340.SAA17014@smtp.interlog.com> I picked up a copy of D.P.I. s Print Director MS manual. Looks like a neat peripheral-access controller device. Anyone have any need for this ? No disks. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Mon Feb 9 12:30:34 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Apple II info ? Message-ID: <199802102340.SAA17017@smtp.interlog.com> I just picked up an AppleII and 2 FDDs with a bunch of add-ons at a local thrift store. The only Apple I have explored is my Mac+. Anyone able to identify the cards ? A Disk II interface card...... obvious. Ram Module by Multiflex Tech Inc.....I imagine additional ram Grapple+ Printer Interface......... Serial, Parallel ?? Multiflex Tech ...Long card with kludged cable to an RCA male connector and another to a clothes-pin chip staddler labelled AP TC/14. Two labelled chips "Firmware" and "Char. Gen." (imagine this is a video card of some sort.) Modem 80 card with 2 tel. jacks........... Baud-rate ? CableTV kludge to a "SUP 'R' MOD CH.33 TV Interface Unit ?? External added-on connector 2x3 blade (like an AC outlet but with 3 pairs of smaller female recepticles in one unit) ?? It also has what I imagine is stock Ext. video (single RCA) and cassette (2 mini-pin i/o ) Any help appreciated. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From engine at chac.org Tue Feb 10 17:50:56 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Apple II info ? In-Reply-To: <199802102340.SAA17017@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980210155056.01140400@pop.batnet.com> At 18:30 2/9/98 +0000, you wrote: > I just picked up an Apple II and....a bunch of add-ons.... >Anyone able to identify the cards ? > > CableTV kludge to a "SUP 'R' MOD CH.33 TV Interface Unit ?? The Sup'r Mod was the RF demodulator that one of the Steves talked Marty Spergel into making as a third-party product, because then the Apple II could be marketed under a much less stringent FCC restriction. As you might imagine, Marty got passably rich. __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From mallison at konnections.com Tue Feb 10 20:20:10 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? References: <3.0.5.32.19980210090757.00b55640@pc> Message-ID: <34E10ADA.3AC7@konnections.com> John Foust wrote: > OK, let's say I pull an old PC and some boxes out of a dumpster, and > there's a set of original AutoCAD Release 9 disks. By your rule, how > can I tell if I own a legit copy or not? > You only own a legit copy if those disks are the last legit set in the licensed set. I.E. if someone has upgraded the disks (and you can't tell) this is not a legit copy, it's part of the upgrade. You have, in essense, part of another's license. -Mike From rigdonj at intellistar.net Tue Feb 10 21:44:31 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? In-Reply-To: <34E10ADA.3AC7@konnections.com> References: <3.0.5.32.19980210090757.00b55640@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980210214431.226fd522@intellistar.net> At 07:20 PM 2/10/98 -0700, you wrote: >John Foust wrote: >> OK, let's say I pull an old PC and some boxes out of a dumpster, and >> there's a set of original AutoCAD Release 9 disks. By your rule, how >> can I tell if I own a legit copy or not? >> > >You only own a legit copy if those disks are the last legit set in the >licensed set. I.E. if someone has upgraded the disks (and you can't >tell) this is not a legit copy, it's part of the upgrade. You have, in >essense, part of another's license. > >-Mike Actually, if they are an earlier version and the software has been upgraded they should stay with the upgrade disk(s) and computer. If the owner throws them out, he no longer has a legit software package. Joe > From foxnhare at claim.goldrush.com Tue Feb 10 20:41:31 1998 From: foxnhare at claim.goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Thrift Store Find & Quick Cam References: <199802100802.AAA16531@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34E10FDC.3CE@goldrush.com> From: Sam Ismail Subject: More books added to the library >One finds the best stuff at thrift stores. Check out what I found today: >The Anatomy of the 1541 Disk Drive >By Abacus Software, 1984 >ISBN: 0-916439-01-1 >It contains a full description of the file system, the file structure, the >file commands, and also has a full 6502 assembler listing for the drive's >ROM! Very cool. This book apparently also came with a "Test/Demo" disk >but the programs are printed in the book so they can be duplicated. What >a treasure. If I recall correctly the book also describes tha basics of coding your own fast drive access routines (fast loader, etc.) which is mighty handy. 001010100101110100100011010110100011100101001000010100010111001001010000 Somewhat Classic Computer related was my acquisition of a Color QuickCam for my Mac, I know it isn't even near 10 years old but it is worthy to mention for its almost instant imaging capabilities... The thing has a range of 1" to infinity (you can zoom in on the numbers printed on tops of chips and have them readable!) So now I have to clear the piles of papers away from a corner so I can use the cam to do shots of some of my equipment (like a better picture of the P-500, etc.) To give you an idea of the detail I am extolling, check out this pic I put on-line for you to see for yourself: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/CLOSEUP.JPG The pictue is of a 12/24 edge connector (.156" spacing), a Commodore monitor connector and the top of a 6510 microprocessor DIP chip. (best I could do in a couple minutes of scrounging. Note this is 'medium size' and the resolution can go up to 640x400. The real bummer to it is I don't think I can get it to work on my Commodores,also it's leash (interface cable) is 6'long... :/ Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From wpe at interserv.com Tue Feb 10 20:49:38 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: I did it AGAIN! References: <13330176142.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <34E111C2.DB4D9117@interserv.com> AAAAccck! IMSMR, there was a way to do it, but I'll have to go through 30 + boxes in my basement t' dig out my manuals an' double check... Is this using the ol' TOPS-20 MS program? Will Daniel A. Seagraves wrote: > Is there a command to make TOPS-20 kill something from the mail queue BEFORE > it gets sent? That's really aggrivating(sp?) when you see so@and.so#Internet -- Queued and you realize that's NOT the intended reciever, and it sits in the > queue for awhile before getting sent, and theoretically you COULD stop it but > I can't figure out how... > Go ahead and (all but Sam) disregard that! > ------- From mallison at konnections.com Tue Feb 10 20:58:10 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? References: <3.0.5.32.19980210090757.00b55640@pc> <3.0.1.16.19980210214431.226fd522@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <34E113C2.314C@konnections.com> Joe > Actually, if they are an earlier version and the software has been > upgraded they should stay with the upgrade disk(s) and computer. If the > owner throws them out, he no longer has a legit software package. > > Joe That's what I meant by "part". If the other person licensed the upgrade, these disks are invalid. They are, indeed, TRASH. Therefore, you have a legal copy, but not a legitimate license. In other words, no one could prosecute you for not having a license, but you couldn't legally upgrade. -Mike From wpe at interserv.com Tue Feb 10 21:07:25 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Real hackers References: <01bd332c$c79d6300$LocalHost@hotze> Message-ID: <34E115EB.B82EC635@interserv.com> > What are the requirements for being a hacker? ;-) > Tim D. Hotze > major snip here.... 8< 8< 8< 8< 8< I always thought it was a desire and knowledge (and making use of same) to make better use of computing, in a benificial way. IMHO, the term used in reference to those "miscreants" who use their knowledge for nefarious purposes does a disservice to the "name".... Just my opinion, sorry for being "off topic".... Will From bmpete at swbell.net Tue Feb 10 21:31:52 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. Message-ID: <34e218bf.20120345@mail.swbell.net> I have encountered a puzzling problem and hope for some insight; I've been trying to verify my box of DSDD floppy drives (On-topically >10 years old) so I set up a 386DX-33 (Consider it a perpiperal to my older systems) After configuring B: to 360KB, I can format/verify a diskette. When I run Norton DD, (Ver. 6.01, IIRC) it says the disk, and I assume the drive, is/are fine. When I run Scandisk (MSDOS 6.22) it says the Media Descriptor Byte is wrong and warns of dire consequences. It also says the FAT copy is wrong! I check the Media Descriptor byte, before and after Scandisk fixes it, and it's always $FD. Does Scandisk have a bug WRT 360KB disks? I'm tempted to ignore it, but... _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From dastar at wco.com Tue Feb 10 21:46:13 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:56 2005 Subject: Apple II info ? In-Reply-To: <199802102340.SAA17017@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote: > I just picked up an AppleII and 2 FDDs with a bunch of add-ons > at a local thrift store. The only Apple I have explored is my Mac+. > Anyone able to identify the cards ? > > Grapple+ Printer Interface......... Serial, Parallel ?? A very nice parallel printer interface with a 64K buffer. > Multiflex Tech ...Long card with kludged cable to an RCA male > connector and another to a clothes-pin chip staddler labelled > AP TC/14. Two labelled chips "Firmware" and "Char. Gen." (imagine > this is a video card of some sort.) An 80-column card (Apple ][ and ][+ computers came stock with 40 columns). > CableTV kludge to a "SUP 'R' MOD CH.33 TV Interface Unit ?? This enabled Apple to comply the FCC requirements for a Class ? computing device. This means you did in fact get an Apple ][ and not a ][+. Very nice find, especially for a thrift store. > It also has what I imagine is stock Ext. video (single RCA) and > cassette (2 mini-pin i/o ) Correct. The RCA is for a monochrome monitor. The two 1/8" phone plugs are for reading/writing data from/to cassette, as well as digitizing audio (ask if you're interested). Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From mallison at konnections.com Tue Feb 10 21:53:49 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. References: <34e218bf.20120345@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: <34E120CD.A8E@konnections.com> Barry: Are you using a 360k drive, or a reconfigured 1.2Meg? If the 1.2 M, use the device=driver.sys command in config.sys to set up a "d" drive as 360k. 1.2M are noticably inconsistent when writing and reading 360k, sometimes the disk will work, other times the same disk wont. -Mike Barry Peterson wrote: > > I have encountered a puzzling problem and hope for some insight; > > I've been trying to verify my box of DSDD floppy drives (On-topically > >10 years old) so I set up a 386DX-33 (Consider it a perpiperal to > my older systems) After configuring B: to 360KB, I can format/verify > a diskette. When I run Norton DD, (Ver. 6.01, IIRC) it says the disk, > and I assume the drive, is/are fine. > > When I run Scandisk (MSDOS 6.22) it says the Media Descriptor Byte > is wrong and warns of dire consequences. It also says the FAT copy is > wrong! I check the Media Descriptor byte, before and after Scandisk > fixes it, and it's always $FD. Does Scandisk have a bug WRT 360KB > disks? I'm tempted to ignore it, but... > _______________ > > Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net > Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, > Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From manney at nwohio.com Tue Feb 10 17:57:29 1998 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Portables Message-ID: <199802110351.TAA13080@mxu2.u.washington.edu> I just picked up an 8088-based NEC, which reports a bad HDD, but has a 720K Floppy. manney@nwohio.com > Does anyone have any portable computers that are 15lb or less that > they could give or sell to me? This includes Z88, Intel stuff, etc. > Not the Mac Portable, since I have that. Preferrably, I would like > something that could run without being plugged in (having replaced > the battery :). Anyone have an IBM Convertible? > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Tue Feb 10 16:59:47 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Real hackers In-Reply-To: <34E115EB.B82EC635@interserv.com> Message-ID: <199802110353.WAA20077@mail.cgocable.net> > > What are the requirements for being a hacker? ;-) > > Tim D. Hotze > > > major snip here.... 8< 8< 8< 8< 8< > > I always thought it was a desire and knowledge (and making use of same) to make > better use of computing, in a benificial way. IMHO, the term used in reference > to those "miscreants" who use their knowledge for nefarious purposes does a > disservice to the "name".... > > Just my opinion, sorry for being "off topic".... > > > Will Few things to say, also good hackers quests for whys it failed or how that works. One case in point: Alex is really good hacker and managed to make a TDD compatiable work over direct phone line via modem or voice modem or sound card to another TTD machine and vice vera and make THAT work on a 286. Also again, Alex discovered a bug in Sears's telecaption 4000, if the signal line 22 somehow got on middle of video area, blowing the closed caption chips. I suggested he change out that can with one from Telecaption 2k and that worked. Long live Bandot code! I also have repaired many equipments including that thinkpad 700C that were deemed unrepairable. But I have a question for anyone. The original glue by IBM in that 700C is wrong type and 2 heatsinks popped off from those 2 video ram SOJ chips. Heatsinks are simply shaped like highland biscuits. My choices on reattaching heatsinks: Industrial Strength E6000 adhesive and sealant worked well on attaching a heatsink onto RapidCAD but dunno on plastics, stick on double sided heatsink pads (tall order to find them!) or mechanical retainer with different heatsink bit hard to do because the metal backplane plate where VGA connector is is on one side and 2 chips side by side in 90 deg relative to backplane plate. Any glue that becomes brittle when cured will crack apart like epoxy, crazy glue and similar stuff is out of this considation. Thanks all! Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From adavie at mad.scientist.com Tue Feb 10 21:56:26 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: manual for Wang 300 series Message-ID: <01bd36a1$067e0a80$22f438cb@nostromo> I have one and will be happy to scan / photocopy for anyone in need of one. Its dated 1967 and has a few piccies. Cheers Andrew From allisonp at world.std.com Tue Feb 10 22:14:05 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? Message-ID: <199802110414.AA12797@world.std.com> < Actually, if they are an earlier version and the software has been References: <34e218bf.20120345@mail.swbell.net> <34E120CD.A8E@konnections.com> Message-ID: <34e12399.203881@mail.swbell.net> On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 20:53:49 -0700, you said: >Barry: > >Are you using a 360k drive, or a reconfigured 1.2Meg? >If the 1.2 M, use the device=driver.sys command in config.sys to set up >a "d" drive as 360k. > >1.2M are noticably inconsistent when writing and reading 360k, sometimes >the disk will work, other times the same disk wont. No, this happens with many different drives and diskettes, ALL 360KB. I've set the B: drive in the BIOS to 360KB. Format needs no modifiers and appears to work fine. I can test the 360KB disk in a 1.2MB drive and all is fine. I wanted to use the 386 since I have more diagnostic tools available, Scandisk seems to just be wrong when it comes to the older drives/disks. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From jrice at texoma.net Tue Feb 10 22:35:53 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? References: <028401bd3641$55668c40$64f8430a@kroma-i> Message-ID: <34E12AA8.4EB883D4@texoma.net> kroma wrote: > >>OK, let's say I pull an old PC and some boxes out of a dumpster, and > > >>there's a set of original AutoCAD Release 9 disks. By your rule, > how > >>can I tell if I own a legit copy or not? > > > > Real simple. It they're original disks then it's a legit copy! > Doesn't > >matter if it came from a dumpster or not. > > > > Though some software manufactures would like you to officially > transfer the > license to a new party. It's usually buried in the fine print of the > software agreement. > > -- Kirk If it was AutoCAD and the original owner has upgraded then the old license for Release 9 is invalid. However if the serial number has not been upgrades Autodesk will transfer ownership if you can locate the original owner and get him to notarize a transfer agreement and then you have to pay to upgrade the license to the current version..now Release 14 at a cost of around a thousand dollars. James From fmc at reanimators.org Tue Feb 10 22:35:46 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Apple II info ? In-Reply-To: Sam Ismail's message of Tue, 10 Feb 1998 19:46:13 -0800 (PST) References: Message-ID: <199802110435.UAA00801@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > Grapple+ Printer Interface......... Serial, Parallel ?? > > A very nice parallel printer interface with a 64K buffer. Um, maybe. I'm pretty sure I remember the Grappler+ printer interfaces (like the ones I have) being parallel printer interfaces with no RAM buffer. > > CableTV kludge to a "SUP 'R' MOD CH.33 TV Interface Unit ?? > > This enabled Apple to comply the FCC requirements for a Class ? computing > device. This means you did in fact get an Apple ][ and not a ][+. Very > nice find, especially for a thrift store. No, it doesn't mean that. The Sup'R'Mod was sold separately, there was nothing to stop you putting one in a ][+, and there was no less reason to do so because the ][+ didn't have any more of an RF modulator in it than the ][. -Frank McConnell From adavie at mad.scientist.com Tue Feb 10 23:45:33 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: first bug was a myth Message-ID: <01bd36b0$44bfb3c0$22f438cb@nostromo> Or maybe a moth. One of my favourite pictures - but is this a myth as WELL as a moth? http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~csclub/museum/items/first_bug.html Can anyone confirm this is the origin of the term "bug"? Its a nice site for Classic computer collectors, anyway. Cheers Andrew From george at racsys.rt.rain.com Tue Feb 10 23:59:50 1998 From: george at racsys.rt.rain.com (George Rachor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: first bug was a myth In-Reply-To: <01bd36b0$44bfb3c0$22f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: I saw what was supposed to be the first Bug at the Smithsonian last week. It was indeed a Moth and it was taped to a computer log sheet. George ========================================================= George L. Rachor george@racsys.rt.rain.com Beaverton, Oregon http://racsys.rt.rain.com On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Andrew Davie wrote: > Or maybe a moth. > One of my favourite pictures - but is this a myth as WELL as a moth? > http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~csclub/museum/items/first_bug.html > Can anyone confirm this is the origin of the term "bug"? > Its a nice site for Classic computer collectors, anyway. > Cheers > Andrew > > > > From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 11 00:20:23 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. References: <34e218bf.20120345@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: <34E14327.F04A62B4@rain.org> Barry Peterson wrote: > I have encountered a puzzling problem and hope for some insight; > > I've been trying to verify my box of DSDD floppy drives (On-topically > >10 years old) so I set up a 386DX-33 (Consider it a perpiperal to > my older systems) After configuring B: to 360KB, I can format/verify > a diskette. When I run Norton DD, (Ver. 6.01, IIRC) it says the disk, > and I assume the drive, is/are fine. First of all, I'm not sure why you are reconfiguring the BIOS since you can format 360K disks in your 1.2 drive with "no problem" using the /4 (DOS 2.x or later I think) or /F:360 (DOS 5.0 or later) switch (type "format /?" at the dos prompt to find out possible switches assuming you are using DOS 5.0 or greater.) The reason for the quotes around "no problem" is that some people have wrongly assumed you can format 360K disks in a 1.2 MB drive and just use them in a 360K drive. This is only true if the disk being formated has not been previously formated or written to in a 360K drive. Sometimes, you can get away with it, but for greatest reliability, the 360K disk needs to be bulk erased before being formated in the 1.2 MB drive. Once a 360K disk has been written to on a 360K drive, writing to it on a 1.2 MB drive can render the disk impossible to use on the 360K drive. FWIW, the head width on the 360K drive is wider than the head in a 1.2 MB drive, and that is what can cause problems. From sethm at squeep.com Wed Feb 11 01:55:06 1998 From: sethm at squeep.com (Seth J. Morabito) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: first bug was a myth In-Reply-To: <01bd36b0$44bfb3c0$22f438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Feb 11, 98 04:45:33 pm Message-ID: <199802110755.XAA12735@sqcisco.squeep.com> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 839 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980210/9853723d/attachment.ksh From dastar at wco.com Wed Feb 11 01:55:37 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Apple II info ? In-Reply-To: <199802110435.UAA00801@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Message-ID: On 10 Feb 1998, Frank McConnell wrote: > Sam Ismail wrote: > > On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > Grapple+ Printer Interface......... Serial, Parallel ?? > > > > A very nice parallel printer interface with a 64K buffer. > > Um, maybe. I'm pretty sure I remember the Grappler+ printer > interfaces (like the ones I have) being parallel printer interfaces > with no RAM buffer. The Grappler was without RAM buffer. The Grappler+ had the 64K RAM. I should know...Power Demon I (my souped-up //e with 3.3Mhz accelerator, 1MB RAM, 20MB HD...) had one. > > > CableTV kludge to a "SUP 'R' MOD CH.33 TV Interface Unit ?? > > > > This enabled Apple to comply the FCC requirements for a Class ? computing > > device. This means you did in fact get an Apple ][ and not a ][+. Very > > nice find, especially for a thrift store. > > No, it doesn't mean that. The Sup'R'Mod was sold separately, there > was nothing to stop you putting one in a ][+, and there was no less > reason to do so because the ][+ didn't have any more of an RF > modulator in it than the ][. But there was a necessity for Apple to ship one with every Apple ][ as Kip's message alluded to. Right around the time was when the FCC started laying down the law with regards to computer emissions. I'll have to look-up the specific why's but I know that's the basic gist of it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Wed Feb 11 02:09:36 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: The Vintage Computer Library grows... Message-ID: I added another 50+ volumes to the Vintage Computer Library today. A very ecclectic bunch of books, manuals, leaflets (no I didn't count the leaflets). I love collecting the books because in the dry times where I don't find much hardware they still can give that "what a find!" thrill, especially when you find a book from the 60's (or sometimes even the 50's!) on data processing or computer science with lots of nice pictures of old data processing gear. However, today's quick trip to the thrift store produced a very cool piece of hardware. I found a California Access "Bodega Bay". It's an Amiga 500 expansion chassis! First of all, Bodega Bay is a cute play on words, since that is also the name of a northern California coastal town, perhaps where this particular piece of hardware was manufactured. I remember last year picking up a California Access 3.5" floppy drive with a DB-25 connector, and now I know what it went to! The chassis is a desktop PC sized case. Inside there is a passive backplane with several slots. There are two cards occupying two of the slots. One is a memory board and the other is a hard disk controller. The chassis also houses an ST-225 hard drive. The 3.5" floppy was removed from the A500 and re-installed inside the chassis. What is very interesting about the backplane is that it also seems to have 4 PC-style 16-bit slots. I only had an 8-bit card handy to try out but it fit perfectly in the "8-bit" portion of the slot. I am almost sure this unit could allow one to use IBM compatible hardware. Am I wrong about this? The passive backplane extends into a protrusion coming out the front of the chassis and plugs into the side expansion slot of the A500, which connects neatly to the chassis to form one unified computer system. Does anyone have any solid technical information on this? Unfortunately in all the books and manuals I brought home not one was for this thing. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From yowza at yowza.com Wed Feb 11 05:49:41 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Yowza!) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: GRiD Compass and Bubble Memory Message-ID: I picked up a nice example of an old GRiD Compass 1100, the first, most rugged, and most beautifully rendered clamshell design laptop (1982). For the most part, it works great. But it won't boot. It wants to boot from it's internal bubble memory, a set of three Intel Magnetics 7110s. I queried MemTech, the company that acquired Intel Magnetics, and they'd like $400 a bubble to replace them, or, for $150, they'll try to "reseed" mine and fix the "bootloop". I'm not bubble savvy, and I would like to see this Compass live again. Any suggestions on how I can boot my bubbles? Are there any other 1100 owners out there that have a spare boot bubble bobbing about (sorry, it's late). Thanks, Doug From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Feb 11 06:26:48 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Real hackers Message-ID: <199802111226.AA16926@world.std.com> Personal point of view: <3.0.1.16.19980210214431.226fd522@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <34E19E36.D23CA4AA@enterprise.net> Joe wrote: > Actually, if they are an earlier version and the software has been > upgraded they should stay with the upgrade disk(s) and computer. If the > owner throws them out, he no longer has a legit software package. > That depends on the terms of the license. A few years ago when I took up an offer from Borland to upgrade Turbo C from version 1.5 to 2.0 I asked them if I could sell on the old disks and manuals legally and they said that they fully supported that course of action because it increased their user base. Regards Pete From kroma at worldnet.att.net Wed Feb 11 07:17:00 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? Message-ID: <002801bd36ef$58bff260$64f8430a@kroma-i> > >That depends on the terms of the license. A few years ago when I took >up an offer from Borland to upgrade Turbo C from version 1.5 to 2.0 I >asked them if I could sell on the old disks and manuals legally and they >said that they fully supported that course of action because it >increased their user base. > Now that would be just too logical, cut out this heresy. Next thing you know MS and Netscape will get along and PC's and Mac's will be compatible. -- Kirk From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 11 08:21:53 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. In-Reply-To: <199802111227.AA17014@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980211082153.41df298c@intellistar.net> At 07:27 AM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote: > >That is a big no-no. The 1.2m drives have a write head that is have the >width and if not properly configured the wrong write current for 360k >media(1.2m media is different magnetically). Also that narrower head >produces a much lower read signal on a 360k drive with more errors. > >Scandisk works excellent for me here even on my Leading Edge XT. It's >something your doing not scandisk. > >Allison > I've found that scandisk gets squirrelly if you have device drivers or TSRs loaded. Unload all of them and try it again. Joe From rigdonj at intellistar.net Wed Feb 11 08:27:42 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? In-Reply-To: <34E19E36.D23CA4AA@enterprise.net> References: <3.0.5.32.19980210090757.00b55640@pc> <3.0.1.16.19980210214431.226fd522@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980211082742.41df4918@intellistar.net> At 12:48 PM 2/11/98 +0000, you wrote: >Joe wrote: > >> Actually, if they are an earlier version and the software has been >> upgraded they should stay with the upgrade disk(s) and computer. If the >> owner throws them out, he no longer has a legit software package. >> > >That depends on the terms of the license. A few years ago when I took >up an offer from Borland to upgrade Turbo C from version 1.5 to 2.0 I >asked them if I could sell on the old disks and manuals legally and they >said that they fully supported that course of action because it >increased their user base. > >Regards >Pete Borland has alway taken a more enlightened attitude toward users. They started selling Pascal for less than $100 when MS still wanted nearly $1000 per package. MicroSloth once said that they estimated the total world wide usage for Pascal to only be a couple of hundred packages and that that justified them charging what they did. Borland sold over 100 times that many copies of Pascal in the first three years. Joe > From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Feb 11 07:52:09 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: I did it AGAIN! In-Reply-To: <34E111C2.DB4D9117@interserv.com> Message-ID: <13331484608.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [What program?] It says it's MM-20. TOPS-20. So yeah, I think so... ------- From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Wed Feb 11 08:04:37 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Off topic, but a decent question... Message-ID: <13331486878.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> We just gave a teacher a Magnavox Headstart 486SX PC. It has a large yellow sticker on the back that reads "DO NOT FORMAT THE HARDDISK". So what do you think he did? :-) Tried upgrading DOS. (5.0 > 6.2) Dos says, "Wanna format the harddisk?" User says "OK, Whatever..." Now we have a dead PC. It will boot off the floppy, it will do dir C:, but it refuses to boot from the harddisk. I'm thinking they hid something proprietary in the bootsector. Anyone else know anything? We have no docs for it, but there's another PC like it in the building somewhere, I have to go find it... Would it fix my problem if I were to get the partition table off the other (good) machine and write it to this one, would that fix it? We already laplinked it to another Magnavox Headstart and tried transferring everything back, that finished OK but still won't boot. I'm getting ready to hand the guy a bootdisk and say "Here, you have to boot from that..." ------- From william at ans.net Wed Feb 11 08:35:35 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: first bug was a myth In-Reply-To: <199802110755.XAA12735@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: > Well, the moth does indeed exist. It was taped into the book by > Adm. Grace Hopper, probably best rememberd for her creation of COBOL. > But I understand that this is _not_ actually the origin of the term "bug" > to describe a mechanical/engineering problem or glitch. Apparently, > the term pre-dates the appearance of this moth in this particular relay. > Unfortunately, I do not have any direct evidence of this, it's just > what I've read. I'd love to find some references to "bugs", meaning > mechanical glitches, pre-dating the 1940's. Yes, indeed the term "bug" is older than th earliest electrical computer. As eveidence, one could check out some of the 1930s issues of QST (a hamradio magazine), and the term shows up. If I could dig them out, I could give you exact dates. William Donzelli william@ans.net From higginbo at netpath.net Wed Feb 11 08:45:51 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: first bug was a myth In-Reply-To: References: <199802110755.XAA12735@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980211094551.007ed920@netpath.net> At 09:35 AM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >Yes, indeed the term "bug" is older than th earliest electrical computer. >As eveidence, one could check out some of the 1930s issues of QST (a >hamradio magazine), and the term shows up. If I could dig them out, I >could give you exact dates. I seem to remember a certain species of cockroach that was quite fond of wire insulation... - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From rexstout at ptld.uswest.net Tue Feb 10 20:45:03 1998 From: rexstout at ptld.uswest.net (John Rollins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: first bug was a myth In-Reply-To: References: <199802110755.XAA12735@sqcisco.squeep.com> Message-ID: >Yes, indeed the term "bug" is older than th earliest electrical computer. >As eveidence, one could check out some of the 1930s issues of QST (a >hamradio magazine), and the term shows up. If I could dig them out, I >could give you exact dates. I think that's a different kind of bug, unless I'm missing something... Are you thinking of those Vibroplex(sp?) bugs? Those funny looking CW keys? Although I suppose the other type of bug is there too, if you count screwing up a radio circuit... But hey, don't listen to me. I've been awake at my computer all night for probably about 10 hours now. I drank a whole 2 liter bottle of Pepsi, finished it off around 9-10pm, now it's almost 7am and I'm still wide awake(and very gittery(I know THAT's not the right spelling...). And to top it off, my fishing license expired, so I don't have anything to do but sit here on the computer for a while longer. Maybe I'll go drag my bike out of the basement. -JR http://members.tripod.com/~jrollins/index.html - Computers http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Lair/1681/ - Star Trek From william at ans.net Wed Feb 11 08:53:56 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: first bug was a myth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I think that's a different kind of bug, unless I'm missing something... Are > you thinking of those Vibroplex(sp?) bugs? Those funny looking CW keys? > Although I suppose the other type of bug is there too, if you count > screwing up a radio circuit... No, the term "bug" applied to telegraphy is different, and yes, it does mean those keys made for high speed. William Donzelli william@ans.net From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Wed Feb 11 09:56:32 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Mac hi-res monitor Message-ID: <447ba374.34e1ca32@aol.com> yes! i need one! glad to pay shipping to nc. is it available? david In a message dated 98-02-10 15:25:34 EST, you write: << Does anyone need a Mac mono monitor? Model number MO400, circa 1987. Best offer takes it, no matter how pathetic. Recipient either pays shipping or picks it up in the LA area (it's not heavy at all, I can't imagine that ups ground would be more than a few bucks on this thing). >> From rector at usa.net Wed Feb 11 10:24:32 1998 From: rector at usa.net (Daniel E. Rector) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Off topic, but a decent question... References: <13331486878.8.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> Message-ID: <34E1D0C0.30FE@usa.net> Did you try doing an FDISK /MBR - This recreates the master boot record (without destroying the partion info as FDISK normally would). -- Dan Rector rector@usa.net From siconic at jasmine.psyber.com Wed Feb 11 10:30:54 1998 From: siconic at jasmine.psyber.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: TRS 80 model II (fwd) Message-ID: I'm sure someone in the Toronto area would like to help Ennio out. Please respond directly to ennio.cellucci@Canada.Sun.COM in you're interested. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@wco.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0! See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 10:14:33 -0500 From: ENNIO CELLUCCI To: vcf@siconic.com Subject: TRS 80 model II Hi, I was hoping you could help me. I have an old TRS 80 model II I just don't have room for anymore. It comes with three BIG hard drives (physical size rather than storage capacity). Would you happen to know anyone in the Toronto area willing to give it a home? Thanks...Ennio From A_Finney at wfi-inc.com Wed Feb 11 10:34:35 1998 From: A_Finney at wfi-inc.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Mac hi-res monitor Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980211083435.0092b880@mail.wfi-inc.com> Sorry David, it's taken. It took about 5 minutes.... Cheers, Aaron At 10:56 AM 2/11/98 EST, you wrote: >yes! i need one! glad to pay shipping to nc. is it available? > >david > > >In a message dated 98-02-10 15:25:34 EST, you write: > ><< Does anyone need a Mac mono monitor? Model number MO400, circa 1987. Best > offer takes it, no matter how pathetic. Recipient either pays shipping or > picks it up in the LA area (it's not heavy at all, I can't imagine that ups > ground would be more than a few bucks on this thing). >> > > From red at bears.org Wed Feb 11 10:32:11 1998 From: red at bears.org (R. Stricklin (kjaeros)) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: The Vintage Computer Library grows... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > perfectly in the "8-bit" portion of the slot. I am almost sure this unit > could allow one to use IBM compatible hardware. Am I wrong about this? Nope, you're 100% correct. What this unit did was more-or-less convert your A500 into the desktop style A2000. The latter had ISA slots which allowed you to buy something called a 'bridgeboard' so you could run PC software. The ISA slots were designed to help the emulation (which as far as I'm concered wasn't an emulation.. you actually had a PC in there). > Does anyone have any solid technical information on this? Unfortunately > in all the books and manuals I brought home not one was for this thing. I have a friend who was a very faithful Amiga user when this came out. I remember him being very excited about this and showing me the article reviewing it in AmigaWorld. I can find out if he's still got that particular issue if you'd like. ok r. From jfoust at threedee.com Wed Feb 11 09:59:10 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: VMS distribution? Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980211095910.00ba84d0@pc> Joe wrote: >>OK, let's say I pull an old PC and some boxes out of a dumpster, and >>there's a set of original AutoCAD Release 9 disks. By your rule, how >>can I tell if I own a legit copy or not? > > Real simple. It they're original disks then it's a legit copy! Doesn't >matter if it came from a dumpster or not. No, it's not necessarily a legit copy. Autodesk sold one license of the software, not one for each upgrade. You can't give away your old disks if you upgrade. Licenses do not multiply when you upgrade. >But unless you specificly agreed to that BEFORE you bought the software >they can't hold you to it. The shrink-wrapped "agreements" are completely >worthless. The US federal courts have made that ruling several times. Leaving aside your quick dismissal of swaths of software precedent, how exactly do you define "separate, licensed copies of software"? Your "disk equals license" rule seems far too wishy-washy to me. What's special about a disk? Are you saying that every copy a company sends you is a separate "copy" that can be given away? - John Jefferson Computer Museum From IVIE at cc.usu.edu Wed Feb 11 11:14:56 1998 From: IVIE at cc.usu.edu (Roger Ivie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: first bug was a myth Message-ID: <01ITG7HTOYQA9JHON7@cc.usu.edu> > Or maybe a moth. > One of my favourite pictures - but is this a myth as WELL as a moth? > http://wwwcsif.cs.ucdavis.edu/~csclub/museum/items/first_bug.html > Can anyone confirm this is the origin of the term "bug"? > Its a nice site for Classic computer collectors, anyway. A few years ago someone wrote a letter to the editor of Scientific American about this moth. The letter quoted a letter from Thomas Edison which uses "bug" in this way and explains the term. The moth can at most claim to be the first time a bug was caused by a _real_ bug. Roger Ivie ivie@cc.usu.edu From higginbo at netpath.net Wed Feb 11 11:24:35 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: disk equals license In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980211095910.00ba84d0@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980211122435.007e56e0@netpath.net> At 09:59 AM 2/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >Your "disk equals license" rule seems far too wishy-washy to me. >What's special about a disk? Are you saying that every copy a >company sends you is a separate "copy" that can be given away? Sounds legit to me. If I found a disk set of Autodesk 3d Studio in the dumpster, just the disks, no manuals, I'd sure as heck use it, but wouldn't expect any company support. If I then came across a higher version for that product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version (say it takes the older version disk to upgrade to newer, then I'd expect to pay the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the program found on my original set of install disks, that I rightfully own. I look at it this way: If someone throws away the disks, they are giving up their license to use the product. If they throw away the manuals and such, but still have the original disks, they still have the right to use the program. If I find the manuals that are thrown away, all I have a right to do is read the manuals, since there are no disks. If I find the disks, I have the right to run the program if I so choose. I'm sure any cold blooded lawyer worth his salt could tear down my logic and send me to the big house for having those disks and running them, but how many would take the time, effort and money to try? - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From engine at chac.org Wed Feb 11 12:17:58 1998 From: engine at chac.org (Kip Crosby) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Past Computer Manufacturers (fwd from mailbase) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.19980211101758.00f1dd00@pop.batnet.com> >Organization: The University of Huddersfield HEC >Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 17:08:31 +0100 >Subject: Past Computer Manufacturers >From: "P.ATKINSON" > >I am currently working on a paper looking at the development of the >designed form of the office computer, and to that end am trying to >find out if certain computer manufacturers still exist or if not, what >happened to them. If anyone has any idea I would be grateful, as I >have to try to contact them in order to obtain copyright clearance. > >The companies concerned are: > >Muldivo >Sanders >Lear Siegler (Data Dynamics) >Kienzle >Mael >Torch > >Hope someone can help [and if anybody can, we can.... ;-) -- kc] >Paul Atkinson __________________________________________ Kip Crosby engine@chac.org http://www.chac.org/index.html Computer History Association of California From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Feb 11 12:29:12 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Past Computer Manufacturers (fwd from mailbase) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980211101758.00f1dd00@pop.batnet.com> from "Kip Crosby" at Feb 11, 98 10:17:58 am Message-ID: <9802111829.AA21375@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 227 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980211/e9a37aeb/attachment.ksh From rcini at email.msn.com Wed Feb 11 12:41:45 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Apple CMS SCSI jumper info Message-ID: <083715143180b28UPIMSSMTPUSR04@email.msn.com> I just got a CMS SCSI card for my Apple // computer, but it came without a manual. Does anyone have info on the jumper settings? TIA! ------------------------------------------------- Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) - ClubWin Charter Member (6) - MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Feb 11 13:02:07 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: BYTE Magazine Message-ID: <1998Feb11.140128.1767.80986@smtp.itgonline.com> I am in search of BYTE Magazine from Issue #1 until December 1977. Does anyone know where I might find these for sale and what a reasonable price would be to pay? Thanks- Marty Mintzell email: marty@itgonline.com From fmc at reanimators.org Wed Feb 11 14:02:54 1998 From: fmc at reanimators.org (Frank McConnell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Apple II info ? In-Reply-To: Sam Ismail's message of Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:55:37 -0800 (PST) References: Message-ID: <199802112002.MAA00556@daemonweed.reanimators.org> Sam Ismail wrote: > The Grappler was without RAM buffer. The Grappler+ had the 64K RAM. I > should know...Power Demon I (my souped-up //e with 3.3Mhz accelerator, 1MB > RAM, 20MB HD...) had one. The Grappler/Grappler+ thing came to mind, but I came across a Grappler+ a couple of months ago, had the presence of mind to note it as such in my inventory, and don't remember there being any obvious RAM on it. That probably says more about my memory than about any on the card though, and I can't remember whether the Grappler I had in my old ][+ was a + or not, just that it didn't have RAM. Whatever it is, it's a parallel printer interface. > > > > CableTV kludge to a "SUP 'R' MOD CH.33 TV Interface Unit ?? > But there was a necessity for Apple to ship one with every Apple ][ as > Kip's message alluded to. Right around the time was when the FCC started > laying down the law with regards to computer emissions. I'll have to > look-up the specific why's but I know that's the basic gist of it. Huh? The necessity was that there be some way to hook a ][ up to a TV set, because not having to buy a monitor kept the overall cost of the ][ down for the many people who were willing to do that. But designing an RF modulator in meant more work, time, money (and hence a later, more expensive product) to get the sort of FCC certification required for devices that are expected to produce RF. Read what Kip wrote again: K>The Sup'r Mod was the RF demodulator that one of the Steves talked Marty K>Spergel into making as a third-party product, because then the Apple II K>could be marketed under a much less stringent FCC restriction. As you might K>imagine, Marty got passably rich. What Apple did was to get someone else to make and sell the RF modulator. They didn't make it, they didn't sell it, and the ][ worked fine without it (using a monitor with composite video input) so when they went for FCC type acceptance they didn't have to include it. Of course, something needed to happen to make sure that all those prospective ][ buyers knew what they needed to get to hook the ][ up to the TV, and that it was readily available to them. Kip? Care to shed any light on how this was accomplished? Anyway, I installed a brand-new Sup'R'Mod in my then brand-new ][+ before I turned it on for the first time, and I expect I wasn't the only one who did, so you can't take the presence of a Sup'R'Mod as an indication that what's in front of you is a ][ as opposed to a ][+. -Frank McConnell From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Feb 11 13:37:45 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Past Computer Manufacturers (fwd from mailbase) In-Reply-To: <9802111829.AA21375@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <3.0.5.32.19980211101758.00f1dd00@pop.batnet.com> from "Kip Crosby" at Feb 11, 98 10:17:58 am Message-ID: <199802111949.NAA11762@onyx.southwind.net> > > >Lear Siegler (Data Dynamics) > > If I'm not confused, Lear Siegler was just part of Lear, a huge > company that has been responsible for all sorts of things, including > the 8-track tape and the Learjet. ^^^^^^^^^^^^ I always thought 'Madman Muntz' invented the 8-Track. I'm almost certain that he at least invented the 4-track. Hmmm. Jeff > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > From Marty at itgonline.com Wed Feb 11 15:05:53 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Off topic, but a decent question Message-ID: <1998Feb11.160514.1767.81030@smtp.itgonline.com> When you do a dir C: can you read what was originally on the hdd prior to the upgrade attempt? If so, try booting with a DOS 5.0 boot diskette which contains sys.com in A:, then copy command.com to C: and do a SYS C: from A: as well. This might get this system bootable again. On the other hand, if you can access your original data, now would be a good time to back it up. Good Luck. Marty Mintzell From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Wed Feb 11 15:21:50 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Past Computer Manufacturers (fwd from mailbase) In-Reply-To: <199802111949.NAA11762@onyx.southwind.net> from "Jeff Kaneko" at Feb 11, 98 01:37:45 pm Message-ID: <9802112121.AA25946@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 11062 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980211/7923bd8f/attachment.ksh From marvin at rain.org Wed Feb 11 15:31:34 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. References: <199802111227.AA17014@world.std.com> Message-ID: <34E218B5.98FBC7B1@rain.org> Allison J Parent wrote: > > That is a big no-no. The 1.2m drives have a write head that is have the > width and if not properly configured the wrong write current for 360k > media(1.2m media is different magnetically). Also that narrower head > produces a much lower read signal on a 360k drive with more errors. Yes, the head widths are different, but I have always been under the impression that using the /f or /f:360 switch with format changes the write current on the drive to adjust for the different coercitivity (sp?) of the 360K and 1.2 M media. Back when the 1.2 MB drives first came out, there was quite a bit of discussion about how to use 360K diskettes reliably on both 360K and 1.2M drives The short answer is you can't if both reading and writing is to be done on both drives on the same 360K diskette. From maxeskin at hotmail.com Wed Feb 11 16:53:44 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Real hackers Message-ID: <19980211225346.21819.qmail@hotmail.com> >I always thought it was a desire to _attain_ knowledge and apply it. > ^^^^^^ > Technology = applied knowledge, therefore a desire to attain knowledge and use technology. Now, unfortunately, people know that there is no reason to make a good product because a) Noone makes good products b) They won't be proud of it anyway because the product won't be noticed in the face of estabilished stuff. People try, but the age of hacking is gone. Right now, there is just nothing exciting in the computing industry. Wait till holographic memory, and so on. As for people who think that they are "hackers" and all they can do is use a Wardialer, I think they just need to feel proud of something they do. These are mainly people who have no other way of supporting themselves morally/emotionally. As the Unabomber would say, "They have a disruption in their power process". What really doesn't help is the "Hackers Manifesto", which pretends to imply that the hackers are "fighting for a cause" of "freedom of information". If you ask me, these "modern", "new age" ideas of freedom and community will invariably lead to either something like the USSR or the USA. The USSR is unquestionably a disaster in so many ways, and the USA is, in my opinion, getting there. Ok, kiddies, back on topic now... :) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Wed Feb 11 13:25:36 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Past Computer Manufacturers (fwd from mailbase) In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.19980211101758.00f1dd00@pop.batnet.com> from "Kip Crosby" at Feb 11, 98 10:17:58 am Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1776 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980211/ba17e175/attachment.ksh From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Wed Feb 11 16:58:48 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Past Computer Manufacturers (fwd from mailbase) In-Reply-To: <9802112121.AA25946@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199802111949.NAA11762@onyx.southwind.net> from "Jeff Kaneko" at Feb 11, 98 01:37:45 pm Message-ID: <199802112357.RAA29893@onyx.southwind.net> > Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:21:50 -0800 (PST) > Reply-to: classiccmp@u.washington.edu > From: Tim Shoppa > To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" > Subject: Re: Past Computer Manufacturers (fwd from mailbase) > > > > >Lear Siegler (Data Dynamics) > > > > > > If I'm not confused, Lear Siegler was just part of Lear, a huge > > > company that has been responsible for all sorts of things, including > > > the 8-track tape and the Learjet. > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > I always thought 'Madman Muntz' invented the 8-Track. I'm almost > > certain that he at least invented the 4-track. > > After checking the alt.collecting.8-track-tape FAQ, I see that Muntz > was indeed responsible for popularizing the 4-track, though I wouldn't > exactly call it "inventing". I hope that I don't get too far off > the group topic by doing this, but I'll hope that at least a couple others > who have a broad interest in the history of technology will enjoy > it when I quote from the FAQ: > I stand corrected. I had no idea that the marketing effort for the 8-Track was such a corporate 'Soap Opera'. I'm a little bit surprised that endless loop recording wasn't used much for computer data back then. Jeff From allisonp at world.std.com Wed Feb 11 19:17:12 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:57 2005 Subject: Past Computer Manufacturers (fwd from mailbase) Message-ID: <199802120117.AA15914@world.std.com> <8-Track was such a corporate 'Soap Opera'. I'm a little bit Message-ID: <199802120147.UAA12483@mail.cgocable.net> > We just gave a teacher a Magnavox Headstart 486SX PC. It has a large > yellow sticker on the back that reads "DO NOT FORMAT THE HARDDISK". So > what do you think he did? :-) Tried upgrading DOS. (5.0 > 6.2) > Dos says, "Wanna format the harddisk?" User says "OK, Whatever..." > Now we have a dead PC. It will boot off the floppy, it will do dir C:, but > it refuses to boot from the harddisk. I'm thinking they hid something > proprietary in the bootsector. Anyone else know anything? We have no docs > for it, but there's another PC like it in the building somewhere, I have to > go find it... Would it fix my problem if I were to get the partition > table off the other (good) machine and write it to this one, would that fix it? > We already laplinked it to another Magnavox Headstart and tried transferring > everything back, that finished OK but still won't boot. I'm getting ready to > hand the guy a bootdisk and say "Here, you have to boot from that..." > ------- Do: (with the bootable dos 6.2 and booted and at a: prompt) fdisk /mbr and sys c: to be sure. Then see how it turns out. Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Wed Feb 11 20:04:31 1998 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Possible source for parts In-Reply-To: <6bt5cb$3ht@news-central.tiac.net> References: <6bt5cb$3ht@news-central.tiac.net> Message-ID: <34ed5739.199693393@mail.wizards.net> I used to feel very antagonistic towards recyclers, since I saw them as greedy sharks that would cheerfully smash any type of electronic equipment or component, no matter how potentially useful, just for a few cents worth of gold. While I don't doubt that there are some who are like that, it strikes me that they're likely only out there to make a living like the rest of us. With that in mind, I think establishing positive relationships are much more constructive. I've attached a post from a recycler. He may or may not be willing to sell useful and undamaged parts as well. Those who are interested, please contact him directly. -=-=- -=-=- On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:53:48 -0500, in misc.industry.electronics.marketplace you wrote: >>Path: Supernews70!Supernews73!supernews.com!howland.erols.net!news-feed1.tiac.net!posterchild2!news@tiac.net >>From: "Jim Sciuto" >>Newsgroups: alt.electronics,alt.electronics.manufacture.circuitboard,aus.electronics,comp.sci.electronics,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips,japan.handmade.electronics,misc.industry.electronics.marketplace >>Subject: Millions in Gold From Old Computer Equipment >>Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 21:53:48 -0500 >>Organization: Goldtek >>Lines: 57 >>Message-ID: <6bt5cb$3ht@news-central.tiac.net> >>NNTP-Posting-Host: p16.ts3.danve.ma.tiac.com >>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>Content-Type: multipart/alternative; >> boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD366E.5E1CF360" >>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 >>Xref: Supernews70 alt.electronics.manufacture.circuitboard:2371 aus.electronics:9618 comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips:202541 japan.handmade.electronics:133 misc.industry.electronics.marketplace:11083 >> >>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >> >>------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD366E.5E1CF360 >>Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="iso-8859-1" >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >> >> >> >>Learn to recycle gold. Old circuit boards, IC Chips, jewelry, etc.. can = >>be recycled and sold again. I will buy them. If you would like more = >>information visit my web site.=20 >> >>http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm >> >>Thanks, >> >>Jim=20 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, SysOp, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fido 1:343/272) kyrrin2 {at} wiz d[o]t n=e=t "...No matter how hard we may wish otherwise, our science can only describe an object, event, or living creature, in our own human terms. It cannot possibly define any of them!..." From wpe at interserv.com Wed Feb 11 21:01:30 1998 From: wpe at interserv.com (will emerson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Early PC kit mfgr? Message-ID: <34E26609.91DA9721@interserv.com> Someone related a story to me about a company (now defunct, and he couldn't remember the name) in the Southwest, that manufactured calculators... Supposedly, in an effort to obtain a loan (and thus, stave off bankruptcy), they told a lending institution that they wanted to "manufacture computers for the home hobbyist market, in kit form"... Supposedly, word got out, and they received copious orders (which I presume (never got the details)) they couldn't fill... Anybody know the "story behind the story", or was this guy "snowing" me? Will From groberts at mitre.org Wed Feb 11 21:03:05 1998 From: groberts at mitre.org (Glenn Roberts) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Slipsticks and calculators and a clock In-Reply-To: <199802050004.AA26792@world.std.com> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980211220305.010f0d2c@mail90> possibly the TI-2500. i have one from the old college days - vintage early 70's; definitely preceded the SR models. it is tan and has the label "Datamath" next to the TI logo. 4-banger, no memory. perhaps most recognizable by the orange "=" key in the lower right. - glenn At 12:04 AM 2/5/98 +0000, Allison J Parent wrote: > ><><>My first one was the SR-10...the ><><>"wedge". $110, IIRC....Was that TI's first? ><> ><>Not by a long shot. The first was in late '71 and went for about $140 ><>(8digit 4banger). I had one going into EE school. >< > >No it was not. the sr-10 was two years later and wedge shaped. This >was barely pocket sized and not wedge shaped. the sr10 has a few things >this one didn't like constant. I also have an SR11. > >Allison > > > From sinasohn at ricochet.net Wed Feb 11 21:23:56 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: disk equals license Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980211114758.35678810@ricochet.net> At 12:24 PM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >Sounds legit to me. If I found a disk set of Autodesk 3d Studio in the >dumpster, just the disks, no manuals, I'd sure as heck use it, but wouldn't >expect any company support. If I then came across a higher version for that >product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version (say it >takes the older version disk to upgrade to newer, then I'd expect to pay >the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the program found on my original It really depends upon the company, I imagine, but I support the notion that if your dumpster set is the last version purchased for that license, (i.e., the former owner hasn't upgraded and is no longer using the program) then sure, you can upgrade it. If, however, that's not the last version, then it is not a valid version. As I see it, there is a reason for offering an upgrade discount. The cost of a piece of software is made up of several things: development costs, media/packaging costs, support costs, and (of course) profit. If you can eliminate any of those, you can reduce the price. Downloading software with on-line manuals eliminates the media and packaging cost, so that is often cheaper. If you sell a piece of software to someone who already knows how to use it, you can budget a lower support cost, hence the upgrade price. Fishing a set of disks out of the dumpster does not necessarily reduce your expected support needs; in some cases it may (hey, if you're dumpster diving for software, you're probably not a newbie) and in some cases, it might increase your need for support ("I installed this software, but it won't run" [three hours later] "oh, you're missing the frobnitzer disk. I'll send it to you."). (Note that making your software compatible with XYZ, the most popular program can reduce support needs as well, hence the competitive upgrade idea.) >I'm sure any cold blooded lawyer worth his salt could tear down my logic >and send me to the big house for having those disks and running them, but >how many would take the time, effort and money to try? The SPA has done that -- to set examples. But realistically, I wouldn't worry about it. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.crl.com/~sinasohn/ From higginbo at netpath.net Wed Feb 11 21:27:36 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: disk equals license Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980211222729.006dce6c@netpath.net> At 09:23 PM 2/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >It really depends upon the company, I imagine, but I support the notion >that if your dumpster set is the last version purchased for that license, >(i.e., the former owner hasn't upgraded and is no longer using the program) >then sure, you can upgrade it. If, however, that's not the last version, >then it is not a valid version. But if you don't know if it is the latest version on that license, is it really hurting the company? If I'm dumpster diving for this stuff, it stands to reason that I wouldn't normally buy that same product in the store. >eliminate any of those, you can reduce the price. Downloading software >with on-line manuals eliminates the media and packaging cost, so that is >often cheaper. That's one thing that gets me: Software coming out today with no manuals still cost the same ammount when first released as earlier manual included packages. >The SPA has done that -- to set examples. But realistically, I wouldn't >worry about it. I never do. :) -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From photze at batelco.com.bh Wed Feb 11 21:40:06 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Real hackers Message-ID: <01bd3767$e8e93a40$LocalHost@hotze> > > >You got to be kidding. Just look around the edges at things like >autonomus robots and navagation to suggest a few. Theres plenty to be >done. Yes, and one of the most evedeint (to me) is Artificial Intelligence. If they're programmers that can do it, they'll probably be hackers. And, you can tie that in with robotics, etc. to make a true human-computer interface, something which could completely revolutionize what we're doing, or, better yet, trying to do. From bmpete at swbell.net Wed Feb 11 22:17:15 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. In-Reply-To: <34E14327.F04A62B4@rain.org> References: <34e218bf.20120345@mail.swbell.net> <34E14327.F04A62B4@rain.org> Message-ID: <34e477c5.1778141@mail.swbell.net> On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:20:23 -0800, you said: >First of all, I'm not sure why you are reconfiguring the BIOS since you can >format 360K disks in your 1.2 drive with "no problem" using the /4 (DOS 2.x >or later I think) or /F:360 (DOS 5.0 or later) switch (type "format /?" at >the dos prompt to find out possible switches assuming you are using DOS 5.0 >or greater.) I changed BIOS simce it IS a 360KB disk, NOT a 1.2MB. I was checking out 360KB drives. (Which will be used on older systems.) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From bmpete at swbell.net Wed Feb 11 22:29:13 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. In-Reply-To: <199802111227.AA17014@world.std.com> References: <199802111227.AA17014@world.std.com> Message-ID: <34e97a8f.2492826@mail.swbell.net> On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:27:01 -0500, you said: >Scandisk works excellent for me here even on my Leading Edge XT. It's >something your doing not scandisk. Maybe it's a difference between the XT and AT BIOS or how the format command is executed, I wasn't "doing" anything but: 1) format b: (Responding to prompts as appropriate) 2)scandisk b: (Error message reported by said scandisk program) No parameters, no modifiers, nothing more than the above two commands _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From bmpete at swbell.net Wed Feb 11 22:30:39 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980211082153.41df298c@intellistar.net> References: <3.0.1.16.19980211082153.41df298c@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <34ed7ae0.2573620@mail.swbell.net> On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:21:53, you said: > I've found that scandisk gets squirrelly if you have device drivers or >TSRs loaded. Unload all of them and try it again. No TSR's, no device drivers. (No autoexec.bat, no config.sys) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From bmpete at swbell.net Wed Feb 11 22:38:37 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. In-Reply-To: <199802120117.AA16548@world.std.com> References: <199802120117.AA16548@world.std.com> Message-ID: <34ee7b47.2676934@mail.swbell.net> On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:17:27 -0500, you said: >This however does not solve the posters question. My cut on that is if >the media was created on a know good 360k drive and it doesn't read right >on a unknown drive, one of them is broken. ;) Again; I'm testing drives. I format a disk to 360KB on a 360KB drive with 386 BIOS set to 360KB. Then I run scandisk on the same disk in the same drive and it reports an error. This occurs many times using many different drives and many different disks. Very repeatable. (The drives in question can read known good disks and other known good drives read disks formatted on these drives; it's not alignment.) _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Thu Feb 12 00:07:09 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Possible source for parts In-Reply-To: <34ed5739.199693393@mail.wizards.net> References: <6bt5cb$3ht@news-central.tiac.net> <6bt5cb$3ht@news-central.tiac.net> Message-ID: >>>Learn to recycle gold. Old circuit boards, IC Chips, jewelry, etc.. can = >>>be recycled and sold again. I will buy them. If you would like more = >>>information visit my web site.=20 >>> >>>http://www.tiac.net/users/quiksand/goldtek.htm It looks to me, after checking the site out, as if this guy is a con-artist, trying to sell booklets and scales, not buy scrap. My guess is he is a crook, pure and simple, and that this can be classified as another Internet get rich quick scheme. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From adavie at mad.scientist.com Thu Feb 12 05:46:29 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Apricot F1 - help, please! Message-ID: <01bd37ab$db9d5b20$0cf438cb@nostromo> Having just obtained a 1984 Apricot F1 computer (and a lovely looking machine they are!) I find I can only get to the ROM boot stage. Onscreen, I have Aprictot F1, a floppy icon, a chip icon, a hand pointing down, an arrow pointing up, and thats about it. The arrow and hand are flashing. When I place disks in the drive, it spins for a bit and places an X and a number on the screen. Numbers I've seen are 4, 8 and 99. So... any proud Apricot owners out there who can help me out? I'd love to see this one go. The keyboard, by the way, is infra red - and working just fine. The mouse (I don't have one - its shown in the manuals) is actually a handheld trackball - that is, you spin it with your fingers - and its the size of mmmh.... well I guess a bread roll is a good approximation. Neat. I'll do an image of it if there is any interest. Any help appreciated. Cheers Andrew From adavie at mad.scientist.com Thu Feb 12 06:34:18 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: first bug was a myth Message-ID: <01bd37b2$8922af60$0cf438cb@nostromo> >The programmer was Grace Hopper (later to become Admiral). Rear-Admiral, I think. From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Feb 12 07:57:29 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <1998Feb12.085646.1767.81106@smtp.itgonline.com> Re: Possible source for parts Now that the Psychic Hotline so fervently pitched by Dionne Warwick has filed for bankruptcy (go figure > these were the REAL PSYCHICS, not those other phony ones) I suppose we should expect to see infomercials for 'The Gold Recovery Expert' on late night cable. I can't wait. Anyway, I don't think this guy is a crook, just another gold digger. I agree with Zane, don't expect to get any spare parts from this guy unless you want to pay by the Troy ounce. For a reputable scrap dealer look under scrap/salvage in your local yellow pages. Marty Mintzell From Marty at itgonline.com Thu Feb 12 08:05:19 1998 From: Marty at itgonline.com (Marty) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: No Subject Message-ID: <1998Feb12.090405.1767.81110@smtp.itgonline.com> Re: Early PC kit mfgr? If I'm not mistaken this sounds like the MITS (Altair 8800) story. An excellent source of information relating to early pc history can be found in the book 'Hackers' by Steven Levy, published in 1984. It was available in paperback (mine is falling apart). Marty Mintzell From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Feb 12 08:16:02 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Past Computer Manufacturers (fwd from mailbase) In-Reply-To: <199802120117.AA15914@world.std.com> Message-ID: <199802121435.IAA13884@onyx.southwind.net> > <8-Track was such a corporate 'Soap Opera'. I'm a little bit > > You missed something then. > > EXATRON Stringy floppy (used tiny carts with 1/8" wide tape) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I remember those. They were about the only mass storage you could get for the ZX-81 IIRC. Didn't know they were continuous loop. > There are at least two that used modified 8track drives. Forgot their > names. I tried 8tr for data, it was ok but the wait even for a 3minutes > loop was painful. They wouldn't seem practical for on-line storage; I was thinking more for archival applications. Of course, the $600+ pricetags for the FDD's available at the time were painful in of themselves. Jeff > > Allison > > From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Feb 12 09:48:50 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: The Vintage Computer Library grows... Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980212094850.00b45890@pc> Sam Ismail wrote: >I found a California Access "Bodega Bay". It's an Amiga 500 >expansion chassis! >Does anyone have any solid technical information on this? Unfortunately >in all the books and manuals I brought home not one was for this thing. Sure, I've got all the Amiga developer conference notes and developer packets from Commodore in the basement, including the rare Janus (Bridgeboard) programming guide, if you find a Bridgeboard. Circa 1987, I was technical editor of an Amiga magazine and was once known as "the father of Amiga journalism." :-) I stopped paying close attention around 1991, though. There's plenty of info on the web - just start entering keywords into www.hotbot.com and www.dejanews.com and you'll find more than you want to know. >I remember last >year picking up a California Access 3.5" floppy drive with a DB-25 >connector, and now I know what it went to! They sold external Amiga floppies that could be used on any model of Amiga - but its floppy port has 23 pins, not 25. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From jfoust at threedee.com Thu Feb 12 09:52:09 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: disk equals license Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980212095209.00b51d70@pc> John Higginbotham wrote: >If I then came across a higher version for that >product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version (say it >takes the older version disk to upgrade to newer, then I'd expect to pay >the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the program found on my original >set of install disks, that I rightfully own. You might hope to pay the lower upgrade price, but Autodesk will surely tell you that you have someone else's copy, and without a letter of transfer, they won't sell you an upgrade. Or if the copy had already been upgraded, they'll transfer you to their anti-piracy department. >I look at it this way: If someone throws away the disks, they are giving up >their license to use the product. Not if they upgraded. It may seem ridiculous of me to pretend for the sake of argument that these disks came from a dumpster, but that's in fact the way a lot of us collectors get our stuff. :-) >I'm sure any cold blooded lawyer worth his salt could tear down my logic >and send me to the big house for having those disks and running them, but >how many would take the time, effort and money to try? That doesn't sit right with me. I don't think I should be able to reproduce someone else's software just because they can't catch me. If you have that lawyer's phone number, ask about if there are any conditions under which copyright can expire apart from the mandated number of years of protection. To help keep this on-topic, I have tried to persuade the UCSD licensing department to allow me to reproduce the Terak version of the P-System. They did once grant a right to a TI-99 user group to reproduce a P-System cartridge. I didn't have much luck because they didn't want to offend the current sole non-exclusive license holder, who is trying to sell the P-System as an alternative to Java in set-top boxes. Good luck, guys. :-) - John Jefferson Computer Museum From tpvesele at qualitycomp.com Thu Feb 12 13:04:47 1998 From: tpvesele at qualitycomp.com (Tom Veselenak) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Antique Computers Message-ID: <34E347CF.40E481ED@qualitycomp.com> Hello, My company currently has several examples of antique computers, software, and various hardware pieces from the early eighties on. We tend to hold onto things in our warehouse and have accumulated boxes of stuff. Some items include: Apple Lisa (one 3.5 drive) unknown model Apple III (one of my personal favorites) Tons of Apple Hardware including II+, IIe, and GS carcases AE Hardware (remember the Ram Charger and Vulcan Hardrives?) Different Upright Macs including 128's, 512's, and the Plus We used to sell a bunch of this stuff in the late eighties, and most of these items were returned without packaging and such, so we could never get refunds for them. I would be interested in receiving an e-mail from someone to discuss the values of some of these items. Thanks -- Sincerely, Thomas Veselenak Product Development Manager Scantron Quality Computers Brighter Paths 20200 9 Mile Rd. St. Clair Shores MI, 48080 Phone: 800-777-3642 Ext. 712 Fax: 810-774-2698 From Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com Thu Feb 12 08:55:48 1998 From: Jeff.Kaneko at ifrsys.com (Jeff Kaneko) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: first bug was a myth In-Reply-To: <01bd37b2$8922af60$0cf438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <199802121537.JAA09100@onyx.southwind.net> > >The programmer was Grace Hopper (later to become Admiral). > > > Rear-Admiral, I think. > > > I believe that's 'Rear-Admiral, Lower Half'. That rank used to be 'Commodore' -- for her I think that may have been a tad more appropriate. ;-) Jeff From zmerch at northernway.net Thu Feb 12 11:44:06 1998 From: zmerch at northernway.net (Roger Merchberger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: disk equals license In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19980212095209.00b51d70@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980212114406.00a763a0@mail.northernway.net> ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw John Foust typed: >John Higginbotham wrote: >>If I then came across a higher version for that >>product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version (say it >>takes the older version disk to upgrade to newer, then I'd expect to pay >>the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the program found on my original >>set of install disks, that I rightfully own. > >You might hope to pay the lower upgrade price, but Autodesk will surely >tell you that you have someone else's copy, and without a letter of transfer, >they won't sell you an upgrade. Or if the copy had already been upgraded, >they'll transfer you to their anti-piracy department. Yes, but to own a version upgrade versus an actual standalone product, you *must* keep the original version. If you own V9, and upgrade to V10/11/12/13/14 on that basis, you cannot toss your V9 media -- or you are chucking the license that allows you to own just the upgrade and not the real thing. Methinks Autodesk's anti-piracy department would set up a conference call between them, you and the folks who threw away the older media, because the company doing the pitching is wrong as well, for without proof of the original, they have essentially pirated the upgrade version. >>I look at it this way: If someone throws away the disks, they are giving up >>their license to use the product. > >Not if they upgraded. It may seem ridiculous of me to pretend for the sake >of argument that these disks came from a dumpster, but that's in fact the >way a lot of us collectors get our stuff. :-) You're both right, in a way. John H.: Chuck the disks, give up license. Yup. John F.: The upgrade disks require a license to previous software -- you now essentially have two linked licenses - you cannot legally give up 1/2 of that license, so: "Don't throw the original media away." - to do so could be asking for trouble. So here's a question: Let's say you find dox & stuff for Lotus V.2 in the dumpster, but with only the original disk 1 of the 3-disk set (IIRC). Do you in fact have the license, or not. Is the license bound to *all* of the media? If this is the case, then that version of Autocad cannot be split. To xfer the license, you need to xfer *all* the media involved - to throw away half would be wrong, the way it seems to me. Just my $0.00000000002 (that's what it's worth, anyway... ;-) Roger "Merch" Merchberger -- Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. From photze at batelco.com.bh Thu Feb 12 11:00:03 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: disk equals license Message-ID: <01bd37d7$a93d38e0$LocalHost@hotze> OK, what if people simply called up the maker of the software, told them how they got it, etc. and gave them info that they have. Chances are, that they'll either tell you to do whatever, or they'll be too busy with other things to care, and just tell you to keep it, etc. Or, they could tell you just to put it back where you found it, but you've given it your best. Tim D. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: John Foust To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Thursday, February 12, 1998 6:56 PM Subject: Re: disk equals license >John Higginbotham wrote: >>If I then came across a higher version for that >>product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version (say it >>takes the older version disk to upgrade to newer, then I'd expect to pay >>the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the program found on my original >>set of install disks, that I rightfully own. > >You might hope to pay the lower upgrade price, but Autodesk will surely >tell you that you have someone else's copy, and without a letter of transfer, >they won't sell you an upgrade. Or if the copy had already been upgraded, >they'll transfer you to their anti-piracy department. > >>I look at it this way: If someone throws away the disks, they are giving up >>their license to use the product. > >Not if they upgraded. It may seem ridiculous of me to pretend for the sake >of argument that these disks came from a dumpster, but that's in fact the >way a lot of us collectors get our stuff. :-) > >>I'm sure any cold blooded lawyer worth his salt could tear down my logic >>and send me to the big house for having those disks and running them, but >>how many would take the time, effort and money to try? > >That doesn't sit right with me. I don't think I should be able to >reproduce someone else's software just because they can't catch me. >If you have that lawyer's phone number, ask about if there are >any conditions under which copyright can expire apart from the >mandated number of years of protection. > >To help keep this on-topic, I have tried to persuade the UCSD licensing >department to allow me to reproduce the Terak version of the P-System. >They did once grant a right to a TI-99 user group to reproduce a >P-System cartridge. I didn't have much luck because they didn't >want to offend the current sole non-exclusive license holder, who >is trying to sell the P-System as an alternative to Java in set-top >boxes. Good luck, guys. :-) > >- John >Jefferson Computer Museum > From higginbo at netpath.net Thu Feb 12 11:13:27 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: disk equals license In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980212114406.00a763a0@mail.northernway.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19980212095209.00b51d70@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980212121327.007da830@netpath.net> At 11:44 AM 2/12/98, you wrote: >So here's a question: Let's say you find dox & stuff for Lotus V.2 in the >dumpster, but with only the original disk 1 of the 3-disk set (IIRC). Do >you in fact have the license, or not. Is the license bound to *all* of the >media? I'd say you have the right to purchase a "previous version 1st disk required" upgrade of the product. You have the disks and the manuals, and the imaginary license laying right next to it, that the previous owner of the software threw away along with his right to upgrade. - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 12 13:26:55 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: disk equals license In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980212114406.00a763a0@mail.northernway.net> References: <3.0.1.32.19980212095209.00b51d70@pc> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980212132655.2ebf0afe@intellistar.net> At 11:44 AM 2/12/98, you wrote: >;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw John Foust typed: >>John Higginbotham wrote: >>>If I then came across a higher version for that >>>product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version (say it >>>takes the older version disk to upgrade to newer, then I'd expect to pay >>>the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the program found on my original >>>set of install disks, that I rightfully own. >> >>You might hope to pay the lower upgrade price, but Autodesk will surely >>tell you that you have someone else's copy, and without a letter of transfer, >>they won't sell you an upgrade. Or if the copy had already been upgraded, >>they'll transfer you to their anti-piracy department. > >Yes, but to own a version upgrade versus an actual standalone product, you >*must* keep the original version. If you own V9, and upgrade to >V10/11/12/13/14 on that basis, you cannot toss your V9 media -- or you are >chucking the license that allows you to own just the upgrade and not the >real thing. > >Methinks Autodesk's anti-piracy department would set up a conference call >between them, you and the folks who threw away the older media, because the >company doing the pitching is wrong as well, for without proof of the >original, they have essentially pirated the upgrade version. > >>>I look at it this way: If someone throws away the disks, they are giving up >>>their license to use the product. >> >>Not if they upgraded. It may seem ridiculous of me to pretend for the sake >>of argument that these disks came from a dumpster, but that's in fact the >>way a lot of us collectors get our stuff. :-) > >You're both right, in a way. > >John H.: Chuck the disks, give up license. Yup. >John F.: The upgrade disks require a license to previous software -- you >now essentially have two linked licenses - you cannot legally give up 1/2 >of that license, so: "Don't throw the original media away." - to do so >could be asking for trouble. > >So here's a question: Let's say you find dox & stuff for Lotus V.2 in the >dumpster, but with only the original disk 1 of the 3-disk set (IIRC). Do >you in fact have the license, or not. Is the license bound to *all* of the >media? When I did software audits, they had to have the complete set of disks. Also if they had an upgrade they had to have the original disk for the upgrade lincense ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^ "ownership" to be valid. (I don't like the term license. A license is different from legal ownership of a software package. Just like a driver's license is different from legal ownership of a car.) If someone threw out their original disks and keep only the upgrade disks, they were throwing out their ownership of that SW package. If someone else found and keep the original set of disks, then he became the owner of that SW. But only the version that was on the disks). In this case, the original owner had no right to continue to use the software even if he still had the upgrade disk! And yes, we have talked to lawyers about this, at LOT of them! We have also talked to ASP (not SPA!) about it. Joe > >If this is the case, then that version of Autocad cannot be split. To xfer >the license, you need to xfer *all* the media involved - to throw away half >would be wrong, the way it seems to me. > >Just my $0.00000000002 (that's what it's worth, anyway... ;-) >Roger "Merch" Merchberger >-- >Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, >Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* >zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. > From mtapley at swri.edu Wed Feb 11 19:20:22 1998 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: digital group computers In-Reply-To: <199802110802.AAA25499@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: All, Figures I'd be out of town when this topic came up; I'd been waiting for a quiet moment to ask about them as well. I remember *lusting* for a digital group system just before dad bought a TRS-80 Model 1. (He was right, Tandy made systems for a lot longer than digital group did. :-() digital group chassis had a backplane bus which could accomodate processor cards carrying any of the 4 processor architectures mentioned by Sam (6502, 6800, 8080, and the super-powerful chip of the future Z-80). They offered a storage system using cassette tapes but recording to them digitally, not tone-encoded, which they called the phi-deck (I think). They sold a separate cabinet which would hold up to 4 of those, for a pretty large (for those days) total storage - over a megabyte, if I recall correctly. They sold a fair selection of software. I recall OASIS (sic?) as the name of one of the operating systems, and OPUS-1 and OPUS-2 as the names of two levels of a programming language (I think). I trashed my promotional literature describing all of this years and years ago, once we decided to go the TRS-80 route. Sigh. If anyone can amplify or correct any of this, or better yet has a working system, I'd love to hear more about it. Oh yes, there was a picture of one of the cabinets on the cover of Byte magazine just before they went out of business. Along with many other systems, suspended in space around a shattering crystal goblet with the Title "Breaking the Sound Barrier". The cover story was about computers with sound-generation capability. This would be maybe 1-2 years after the introduction of the Z-80, I'd guess, but don't remember better than that. More and better information, anyone? - Mark From jrice at texoma.net Thu Feb 12 15:02:58 1998 From: jrice at texoma.net (James L. Rice) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: disk equals license References: <3.0.3.32.19980212114406.00a763a0@mail.northernway.net> Message-ID: <34E36382.310DCBC0@texoma.net> Roger Merchberger wrote: > ;-) Clearing the snow from my glasses, I saw John Foust typed: > >John Higginbotham wrote: > >>If I then came across a higher version for that > >>product and it was cheaper if you already owned a previous version > (say it > >>takes the older version disk to upgrade to newer, then I'd expect to > pay > >>the cheaper price, because it is upgrading the program found on my > original > >>set of install disks, that I rightfully own. > > > >You might hope to pay the lower upgrade price, but Autodesk will > surely > >tell you that you have someone else's copy, and without a letter of > transfer, > >they won't sell you an upgrade. Or if the copy had already been > upgraded, > >they'll transfer you to their anti-piracy department. > > Yes, but to own a version upgrade versus an actual standalone product, > you > *must* keep the original version. If you own V9, and upgrade to > V10/11/12/13/14 on that basis, you cannot toss your V9 media -- or you > are > chucking the license that allows you to own just the upgrade and not > the > real thing. > > Methinks Autodesk's anti-piracy department would set up a conference > call > between them, you and the folks who threw away the older media, > because the > company doing the pitching is wrong as well, for without proof of the > original, they have essentially pirated the upgrade version. > > >>I look at it this way: If someone throws away the disks, they are > giving up > >>their license to use the product. > > > >Not if they upgraded. It may seem ridiculous of me to pretend for > the sake > >of argument that these disks came from a dumpster, but that's in fact > the > >way a lot of us collectors get our stuff. :-) > > You're both right, in a way. > > John H.: Chuck the disks, give up license. Yup. > John F.: The upgrade disks require a license to previous software -- > you > now essentially have two linked licenses - you cannot legally give up > 1/2 > of that license, so: "Don't throw the original media away." - to do so > > could be asking for trouble. > > So here's a question: Let's say you find dox & stuff for Lotus V.2 in > the > dumpster, but with only the original disk 1 of the 3-disk set (IIRC). > Do > you in fact have the license, or not. Is the license bound to *all* of > the > media? > > If this is the case, then that version of Autocad cannot be split. To > xfer > the license, you need to xfer *all* the media involved - to throw away > half > would be wrong, the way it seems to me. > > Just my $0.00000000002 (that's what it's worth, anyway... ;-) > Roger "Merch" Merchberger > -- > Roger Merchberger | If at first you don't succeed, > Programmer, NorthernWay | nuclear warhead disarmament should *not* > zmerch@northernway.net | be your first career choice. AutoDesk requires you to trade the original disks from the previous version at the dealer to order the upgrade. From cfandt at servtech.com Thu Feb 12 15:07:09 1998 From: cfandt at servtech.com (Christian Fandt) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Are We Not Men? (& Women?) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199802122107.QAA11568@cyber2.servtech.com> At 07:05 26-01-98 -0600, Brett wrote: > >On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Wirehead Prime wrote: >> >> I think the following says all that need be said about this debate. >> I received it from Mr. Ismail this evening. >> >> Anthony Clifton - Wirehead > >Let's get one thing clear here ... Sam is - well - Sam 8-) >It's not the first time he has - er - bossed people around 8-) > >[MONSTER SNIPPAGE] (Been there - done that 8-) Me too. >I have always thought Sam's sig. was enough to tell you everything >you needed to know about him - but let's break it down 8-) > >> Sam >> >> Computer Historian, > >Well - He certainly has quite a few - and seems to know his stuff - but >a historian does it for the money. A collector does it for love. Hi Brett, An historian isn't always in it for the money IMHO. Often professional historians who work at museums, schools, libraries, etc. get paid towards the middle to low end of a typical salary range, depending upon the geographic region (unless those institutions are very well endowed financially). They are in it for the love of history: the challenge to learn more, to preserve history (artifacts and lore) and the belief that they help today's and future observers learn about and understand the past, whatever that specific subject matter may be. They are enthusiastic about their work. Then, on the other hand, some historians are known to be "paid authorities" or whatever and consider it just a job they intend to get paid for. An amateur historian, of which most of us reading this probably could consider themselves and if you may permit me to speak for you, is in it also for love of history for much of the same reasons as the enthusiastic paid historians I mentioned above. A collector could be an historian too, but may be defined as a more financially broke historian because of, simply, collecting artifacts! 8^) I fall in the range of being an historian and collector, e.g., I have a sometimes burning interest to learn more and document a thing or subject matter if it really piques my interest plus I have a considerable collection of equipment, mostly early radio receivers (broadcast, military, commercial), test equipment, parts and documentation. I also have a modest collection of classic computers with prime interest in the non-home type machines (for example: DG Nova 1200, IBM 9370, Heath H8 and H11, HP 250/30, HP 9000 stuff, Teletype equipment, etc., etc.) My paper library takes up a whole extra bedroom, mostly radio related material. And yes, Sam, this subject of discussing the term "computer historian" _is_ on topic ;-) Regards, Chris -- -- Christian Fandt, Electronic/Electrical Historian Jamestown, NY USA Member of Antique Wireless Association URL: http://www.ggw.org/freenet/a/awa/ From maxeskin at hotmail.com Thu Feb 12 15:45:49 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: System/34 once again Message-ID: <19980212214549.15833.qmail@hotmail.com> It now looks like I might at least get the manuals and so on for the thing, I don't know about actually running it. What I am wondering is if it's actually worth it. If I go ahead, it will be my first experience with a non-microcomputer. Is using this thing something I could learn from and be interested in, or is it something you would roll your eyes and groan over? Could someone who has used the thing tell me what it's like? Is its OS very system-level or does it have some degree of ease of use? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From dastar at wco.com Thu Feb 12 16:55:32 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: digital group computers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Mark Tapley wrote: > I trashed my promotional literature describing all of this years > and years ago, once we decided to go the TRS-80 route. Sigh. If anyone can > amplify or correct any of this, or better yet has a working system, I'd > love to hear more about it. > Oh yes, there was a picture of one of the cabinets on the cover of > Byte magazine just before they went out of business. Along with many other > systems, suspended in space around a shattering crystal goblet with the > Title "Breaking the Sound Barrier". The cover story was about computers > with sound-generation capability. This would be maybe 1-2 years after the > introduction of the Z-80, I'd guess, but don't remember better than that. The folks from The Computer Journal brought along a Digital Group computer to the first Vintage Computer Festival and had it on display on their table. The most interesting thing I remember about it was that it had an electricity meter on the front (showing total electrical usage). You can contact them about it directly by checking out their web page which is: http://www.psyber.com/~tcj Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From william at ans.net Thu Feb 12 17:01:43 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: System/34 once again In-Reply-To: <19980212214549.15833.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: > It now looks like I might at least get the manuals and so on for the > thing, I don't know about actually running it. What I am wondering > is if it's actually worth it. If I go ahead, it will be my first > experience with a non-microcomputer. Is using this thing something I > could learn from and be interested in, or is it something you would > roll your eyes and groan over? Could someone who has used the thing > tell me what it's like? Is its OS very system-level or does it have > some degree of ease of use? I have never dealt with a S/34, but now that RCS/RI has one, maybe that will change. Anyway, if it is anything like the slightly later S/36 and S/38 machines, you will be looking at a very complex processor and an VERY hacker unfriendly OS. Normal minis these thing aren't! They were designed very conservatively for business applications and are meant to run day-in day-out doing the same thing, like point-of-sales applications. They are not powerful or fast, but they never broke or crashed (some S/36 systems have run for a few years without a reboot or failure!). You can hack on these things from the ground up, but do not expect much in the way of programming tools or non-COBOL languages. William Donzelli william@ans.net From chemif at mbox.queen.it Thu Feb 12 17:22:53 1998 From: chemif at mbox.queen.it (Riccardo) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Past Computer Manufacturers (fwd from mailbase) Message-ID: <199802122322.AAA21618@mbox.queen.it> At 08:16 12/02/98 -0600, you wrote: >> EXATRON Stringy floppy (used tiny carts with 1/8" wide tape) > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >I remember those. They were about the only mass storage you could >get for the ZX-81 IIRC. Didn't know they were continuous loop. SINCLAIR made endless tape "MICRODRIVE" for the ZX Spectrum >> There are at least two that used modified 8track drives. Forgot their >> names. I tried 8tr for data, it was ok but the wait even for a 3minutes >> loop was painful. > >They wouldn't seem practical for on-line storage; I was thinking more >for archival applications. Of course, the $600+ pricetags for the >FDD's available at the time were painful in of themselves. TRUE was a small upgrade comparing to the tape speed. Riccardo ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? ? Riccardo Romagnoli,collector of:CLASSIC COMPUTERS,TELETYPE UNITS,PHONE ? ? AND PHONECARDS I-47100 Forli'/Emilia-Romagna/Food Valley/ITALY ? ? Pager:DTMF PHONES=+39/16888(hear msg.and BEEP then 5130274*YOUR TEL.No.* ? ? where*=asterisk key | help visit http://www.tim.it/tldrin_eg/tlde03.html ? ? e-mail=chemif@mbox.queen.it ? ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 12 18:00:24 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Apple IIe Case Message-ID: <000a01bd3812$63df7e80$7d69420c@fran-ois> Hi, I got an apple IIe today and it came in a big padded case with a handle. It looks like an oversize suitcase and wheighs a ton. It has reinforced corners and edges. Inside are three compartments: the center one holds the Apple IIe and the sides hld the disk drive, floppies, docs and hard drive. Has anyone heard of the case or is it a custom one of a kind part? Any information would be appreciated. Fran?ois From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Feb 12 17:52:50 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Apple IIe Case In-Reply-To: <000a01bd3812$63df7e80$7d69420c@fran-ois> from "Francois" at Feb 12, 98 06:00:24 pm Message-ID: <9802122352.AA01934@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 586 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980212/47e9c53b/attachment.ksh From manney at nwohio.com Wed Feb 11 15:07:34 1998 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: first bug was a myth Message-ID: <199802122357.PAA14364@mxu3.u.washington.edu> This is not the origin of the term "bug". My source sez that it was in use at least as far back as Edison's time. > Can anyone confirm this is the origin of the term "bug"? From manney at nwohio.com Wed Feb 11 15:57:00 1998 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Off topic, but a decent question... Message-ID: <199802122357.PAA05577@mxu4.u.washington.edu> Check that the partition is active (use FDISK). Have you checked it for a virus? manney@nwohio.com From manney at nwohio.com Wed Feb 11 16:01:46 1998 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: first bug was a myth Message-ID: <199802122357.PAA26996@mxu1.u.washington.edu> > I seem to remember a certain species of cockroach that was quite fond of > wire insulation... I really doubt that, sincd cockroaches eat human food. (Termites, maybe?) My brother usta work in an abandoned building. His screen went funny, and he looked down -- a rat large enough to require a driver's license was gnawing on the cable. (This was over 10 years ago, just to _pretend_ to keep this on topic). From william at ans.net Thu Feb 12 18:04:39 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Possible source for parts In-Reply-To: <34ed5739.199693393@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: > I used to feel very antagonistic towards recyclers, since I saw them > as greedy sharks that would cheerfully smash any type of electronic > equipment or component, no matter how potentially useful, just for a few > cents worth of gold. > > While I don't doubt that there are some who are like that, it strikes > me that they're likely only out there to make a living like the rest of > us. With that in mind, I think establishing positive relationships are > much more constructive. Yes, some of them really are good eggs. Some, however, are not. If you want some fairly straight information, deal with the refineries directly - many have a setup charge, then take out a small percentage (a few percent) of what they recover. I once had a TWO different scrap gold dealers offer me $10 to $15 per pound for some scrap. The refineries value that same scrap over $100 per pound. William Donzelli william@ans.net From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 12 12:26:36 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Apricot F1 - help, please! In-Reply-To: <01bd37ab$db9d5b20$0cf438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Feb 12, 98 10:46:29 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1998 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980212/c8373cf2/attachment.ksh From kaikal at MICROSOFT.com Thu Feb 12 18:28:51 1998 From: kaikal at MICROSOFT.com (Kai Kaltenbach) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Apricot F1 - help, please! Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD5461357A@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> Amazingly enough, there is a ton (relatively) of F1 stuff on Apricot's UK web site file library... Kai > -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Duell [SMTP:ard@p850ug1.demon.co.uk] > Sent: Thursday, February 12, 1998 10:27 AM > To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > Subject: Re: Apricot F1 - help, please! > > > > > Having just obtained a 1984 Apricot F1 computer (and a lovely looking > > machine they are!) I find I can only get to the ROM boot stage. > Onscreen, I > > have Aprictot F1, a floppy icon, a chip icon, a hand pointing down, an > arrow > > I have an Apricot F1 Technical Manual here, mainly because it's the only > thing that I've found that's at all relevant to the Apricot PC which I > have. > > > pointing up, and thats about it. The arrow and hand are flashing. > > When I place disks in the drive, it spins for a bit and places an X and > a > > number on the screen. Numbers I've seen are 4, 8 and 99. So... any > proud > > OK, here's the error table from Appendix A of the manual : > > Boot ROM Error codes : > 20 ROM checksum test > 22 SIO register test > 25 RAM test > 28 Floppy Controller test > 29 CTC clock chip test > 33 Clock interrupt test > 35 Drive 0 test (can it step correctly?) > > Disk Error codes : > 2 Drive not ready, or disk removed during boot > 4 CRC error, corrupt sector > 6 Seek Error, unformatted or corrupt disk > 7 Bad media, corrupt media block > 8 Sector not found, unformatted or corrupt disk, bad load address in label > 11 bad read, corrupt data field on disk > 12 disk failure, disk hardware or media fault > 99 Non-system disk. Not a valid boot disk > > I assume you are using an Apricot boot disk. This machine, while based on > the 8086 and running MS-DOS, is certainly not a PC-clone. According to > the manual, this machine uses double-sided 80 track 720K disks (my, > older, machine uses single-sided disks). > > I don't know if boot disks for other Apricot machines will work. The > hardware is somewhat different (the F1 doesn't have the 8089 'I/O > coprocessor' (a fancy DMA chip) that's fitted on the PC). > > If you are using an Apricot boot disk, I'd firstly try a different one, > and then suspect disk drive or disk controller problems. The Apricot uses > a Western Digital 2797 disk controller. There's a few tweakers associated > with this chip as well. > > > Any help appreciated. > > Cheers > > Andrew > > > > > > -tony From manney at nwohio.com Thu Feb 12 18:09:55 1998 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: disk equals license Message-ID: <199802130035.QAA18807@mxu3.u.washington.edu> > AutoDesk requires you to trade the original disks from the previous > version at the dealer to order the upgrade. Not any more . I have a customer who has her old disks. > From manney at nwohio.com Thu Feb 12 18:03:18 1998 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Slipsticks and calculators and a clock Message-ID: <199802130035.QAA10458@mxu2.u.washington.edu> Ya wanna get rid of it? manney@nwohio.com > possibly the TI-2500. i have one from the old college days - vintage early > 70's; definitely preceded the SR models. it is tan and has the label > "Datamath" next to the TI logo. 4-banger, no memory. perhaps most > recognizable by the orange "=" key in the lower right. So did the TI SR-10, IIRC From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 12 19:38:52 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: first bug was a myth In-Reply-To: <199802122357.PAA26996@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980212193852.2e7fc33c@intellistar.net> At 05:01 PM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >> I seem to remember a certain species of cockroach that was quite fond of >> wire insulation... > >I really doubt that, sincd cockroaches eat human food. (Termites, maybe?) Hey, I live in Florida where the cockroach is the state insect! I can tell you for a fact that they eat EVERYTHING! If you think they only eat human food then it's obvious that you've never lived in an area that has roaches! I have seen cloth covered wires stripped bare by roaches! Joe From wts at exo.com Thu Feb 12 18:47:40 1998 From: wts at exo.com (W. Tom Sanderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Altair 8800b + drive alignment Message-ID: <01BD37D5.EF428E00@altair.platsoft.com> I also need alignment for a drive on my 8800b. I have the documentation and procedures plus the MITS program to step to a specific track. In addition to an oscilloscope, one tool needed for alignment is a hammer! The biggest problem will be finding an alignment diskette. The Pertec drives are 32-hard-sectored eight-inch. Most eight-inch drives are soft-sectored. Assuming your drives are one drive per case, they are probably a FD410 with a DC motor. If your drives are two drives per case, they are probably FD511s with a AC motor. Both drives can read the same diskettes. I also have a supply of blank diskettes. I would appreciate any suggestions on locating an alignment diskette. I would also like to hear from anyone with working drives. I would like backup and add to my MITS software collection. Tom Sanderson wts@exo.com http://exo.com/~wts/wts10005.HTM Virtual Altair Museum To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" Message-ID: <34E3A322.3EEB4BA0@cnct.com> PG Manney wrote: > My brother usta work in an abandoned building. His screen went funny, and > he looked down -- a rat large enough to require a driver's license was > gnawing on the cable. (This was over 10 years ago, just to _pretend_ to > keep this on topic). Back about 1985 when I was still the CSR at the RSCC in downtown Los Angeles, a customer brought in a TRS-80 Model 3 that had been in storage at his company's warehouse up in Stockton for at least two years, It was quite grungy and it would not boot TRSDOS or anything else except for ROM BASIC. So we sent it out to the repair center. When it came back the ticket read something like "Removed dead mouse from drive 0. Cleaned drives and system. System checks OK." My manager immediately sent a speed memo to the repair center to the effect of "Customer was unaware that mouse was available upgrade to Model 3. Would like mouse repaired and reinstalled." -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 12 20:03:29 1998 From: francois.auradon at worldnet.att.net (Francois) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Apple IIe Case Message-ID: <001301bd3823$9540baa0$7d69420c@fran-ois> >These were commonly advertised in the back of _BYTE_ and other computer >magazines in the late 70's and early 80's. Is there any indication of >a manufacturer or brand name for the case? > >Tim. Not that I can see. The panneling is made of wood (I got i off my trunk and can take a closer look), it looks like a home job (a well done one). Fran?ois. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Thu Feb 12 14:52:09 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: first bug was a myth In-Reply-To: <34E3A322.3EEB4BA0@cnct.com> Message-ID: <199802130146.UAA29041@mail.cgocable.net> > Back about 1985 when I was still the CSR at the RSCC in downtown > Los Angeles, a customer brought in a TRS-80 Model 3 that had been > in storage at his company's warehouse up in Stockton for at least > two years, It was quite grungy and it would not boot TRSDOS or > anything else except for ROM BASIC. So we sent it out to the > repair center. When it came back the ticket read something like > "Removed dead mouse from drive 0. Cleaned drives and system. > System checks OK." My manager immediately sent a speed memo to > the repair center to the effect of "Customer was unaware that > mouse was available upgrade to Model 3. Would like mouse > repaired and reinstalled." Hee hee! I told my friend about this! SIck he says! There the few computer systems dirtied by mouse BM and pee on motherboard. Happened to me once in repair service. :) Jason D. > -- > Ward Griffiths > Dylan: How many years must some people exist, > before they're allowed to be free? > WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", > they'll never be free. > > email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From wheagy at erols.com Thu Feb 12 20:28:42 1998 From: wheagy at erols.com (Win Heagy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Antique Computers References: <34E347CF.40E481ED@qualitycomp.com> Message-ID: <34E3AFDA.7ADD@erols.com> Hi, I don't know hte market value of a Lisa, but if you decide to sell, please put me on your list. Depending on condition, it may be worth a couple hundred to me. Thanks...Win Tom Veselenak wrote: > > Hello, > > My company currently has several examples of antique computers, > software, and various hardware pieces from the early eighties on. > > We tend to hold onto things in our warehouse and have accumulated boxes > of stuff. Some items include: > > Apple Lisa (one 3.5 drive) unknown model > Apple III (one of my personal favorites) > Tons of Apple Hardware including II+, IIe, and GS carcases > AE Hardware (remember the Ram Charger and Vulcan Hardrives?) > > Different Upright Macs including 128's, 512's, and the Plus > > We used to sell a bunch of this stuff in the late eighties, and most of > these items were returned without packaging and such, so we could never > get refunds for them. > > I would be interested in receiving an e-mail from someone to discuss the > values of some of these items. > > Thanks > > -- > Sincerely, > > Thomas Veselenak > Product Development Manager > Scantron Quality Computers > Brighter Paths > > 20200 9 Mile Rd. > St. Clair Shores MI, 48080 > > Phone: 800-777-3642 Ext. 712 > Fax: 810-774-2698 -- Win Heagy wheagy@erols.com From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 12 19:56:40 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:58 2005 Subject: Apricot F1 - help, please! In-Reply-To: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD5461357A@red-msg-44.dns.microsoft.com> from "Kai Kaltenbach" at Feb 12, 98 04:28:51 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 183 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980213/d67c5763/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Feb 12 21:06:15 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Real hackers Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980212182542.4be7d0ba@ricochet.net> At 08:17 PM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote: > >You got to be kidding. Just look around the edges at things like >autonomus robots and navagation to suggest a few. Theres plenty to be And there is plenty of opportunity in terms of software -- new uses for the internet connectivity is a big one. CUSeeMe, for example and the internet phone stuff... These are things that make me envision some guy, surrounded by empty coke bottles, about 3 in the morning thinking, "Hey, if I can send data over voice lines, why can't I send voice over data lines?" and such. Also, how about purpose-built devices? Wanna buy a dedicated alphapaging station so you're grandmother (who keeps pointing her calculator at the Microwave and trying to change the channel) can just turn it on, type a message (See, grandma, it's just like a typewriter!) and hit a send button to send you an alphapage? Probably can't do it affordably. But take a Basic Stamp, add a keyboard and a little LCD screen, some code, and voila... Speaking whihc, has anyone else ever read Heinlein's book (whose name I've forgotten) about the inventor whose partners steal everything and freeze him for 20 years etc? One of the things he invents is an automated vacuum cleaner. When Heinlein wrote the book, I'm sure that would have been very expensive and very difficult to do. Now, however, it would seem like an acheivable goal, especially since Heinlein does a lot of the specs for you... So how come you can't buy one at Target? Anyone want to make millions? (That book, btw, is what made me want to be an EE (along with Steve Ciarcia calling it "programming in solder"). Perhaps someday I'll finally get to become one...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From sinasohn at ricochet.net Thu Feb 12 21:06:19 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: disk equals license Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980212184557.4bdfd270@ricochet.net> >I'd say you have the right to purchase a "previous version 1st disk >required" upgrade of the product. You have the disks and the manuals, and >the imaginary license laying right next to it, that the previous owner of >the software threw away along with his right to upgrade. Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc. Who (if anyone) is wrong? Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate before? --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Thu Feb 12 19:53:58 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Altair 8800b + drive alignment In-Reply-To: <01BD37D5.EF428E00@altair.platsoft.com> from "W. Tom Sanderson" at Feb 12, 98 04:47:40 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1149 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980213/c52b38a1/attachment.ksh From rigdonj at intellistar.net Thu Feb 12 22:22:54 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: disk equals license In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980212184557.4bdfd270@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980212222254.4e8ffe94@intellistar.net> At 09:06 PM 2/12/98 -0600, you wrote: >>I'd say you have the right to purchase a "previous version 1st disk >>required" upgrade of the product. You have the disks and the manuals, and >>the imaginary license laying right next to it, that the previous owner of >>the software threw away along with his right to upgrade. > >Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz >software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks >for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives >me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc. > >Who (if anyone) is wrong? He is. Having the original version was a condition to him being allowed to buy the upgrade. > >Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original >disks. Am I now a pirate? Yes. The same reason apples as above, you must have original version as a condition to have/use the upgrade. Was I a pirate before? Not really. You legally owned the old version. Or was he the pirate >before? Yes. > > He installs it, it checks >for the previous version, and all is right with the world. That says it all. You must have the old version as a condition to have the upgrade. My $0.02 worth. Joe > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > > From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Thu Feb 12 21:37:29 1998 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: TK50 TAPES up for grabs in Portland, OR Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980212193729.00e2a380@mail.wizards.net> Please contact Mr. Grier directly if you're interested. Thanks! -=-=- -=-=- >Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:34:42 -0800 (PST) >From: "Aaron J. Grier" >To: port-vax@NetBSD.ORG, port-pmax@NetBSD.ORG >Subject: tk50s up for grabs in Portland, OR >Sender: port-vax-owner@NetBSD.ORG >Delivered-To: port-vax@NetBSD.ORG > > >in the basement of the Reed College library, there's a wall of tk50s which >are being tossed. (All have been run through a bulk-eraser...) > >If you can get 'um before the custodians come and trash them, they're >yours. (I've already got my fill.) Drop me an email, and I can meet you >to help carry them to your vehicle. > > at least they'll be giving away the hardware to students... > >---- > Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier@poofy.goof.com > agrier@reed.edu | agrier@metro.grumblesmurf.net | ...!reed!vla!agrier > DECBEE65 0DEE3A0C 1ED7F54D 9E023CC4 and 0x0663D1A9 at a server near you. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From higginbo at netpath.net Thu Feb 12 21:37:32 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: disk equals license Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980212223403.006ce11c@netpath.net> Technically, everyone is wrong. Now, if he gave you the disks/manuals/etc. and did the upgrade, he'd be wrong. If you didn't upgrade, you'd be in the clear. You were a pirate before, a pirate now, and will always be a pirate if you keep the upgrade installed and use it. I guess that leaves only one thing to say: Arrgh! Join the crew, matey! :P But if you got the disks from an entirely anonymous source, you wouldn't know the history behind the software, and you could use the software with a slightly less guilty conscience if you were so inclined. Everything is relative, no two cases are the same, and some leeway needs to be taken into consideration where software "piracy" is concerned. I think there's a pretty big grey area there, IMHO. At 09:06 PM 2/12/98 -0600, you wrote: >Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz >software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks >for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives >me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc. > >Who (if anyone) is wrong? > >Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original >disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate >before? -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From adavie at mad.scientist.com Thu Feb 12 21:34:16 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: IBM PC-Junior Message-ID: <01bd3830$43061660$1cf438cb@nostromo> "some IBM PC Junior pieces (a monitor, printer, cpu, keyboard). last time i plugged it in, it worked" I would appreciate some info; I don't knnow anything about this one. Should I grab it, and if so, what is a fair price? Ie: is it scarce, do i want it. Andrew From bill_r at inetnebr.com Thu Feb 12 23:11:30 1998 From: bill_r at inetnebr.com (Bill Richman) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: digital group computers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <34e5d52f.2782691@hoser> On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 14:55:32 -0800 (PST), Sam Ismail wrote: > >The folks from The Computer Journal brought along a Digital Group computer >to the first Vintage Computer Festival and had it on display on their >table. The most interesting thing I remember about it was that it had an >electricity meter on the front (showing total electrical usage). > That must have been something they stuck on. A friend had a dg system in high-school, and all it had was a vast expanse of dark brown/black sheet metal with two illuminated square buttons on it - one red and one blue, for power and reset. The phi-decks were cool, though; it always seemed so busy and complicated with all the whirring and clicking... -Bill Richman bill_r@inetnebr.com http://incolor.inetnebr.com/bill_r (Home of the COSMAC Elf Simulator!) From dastar at wco.com Thu Feb 12 23:12:25 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Apple IIe Case In-Reply-To: <000a01bd3812$63df7e80$7d69420c@fran-ois> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Francois wrote: > I got an apple IIe today and it came in a big padded case with a handle. It > looks like an oversize suitcase and wheighs a ton. It has reinforced corners > and edges. Inside are three compartments: the center one holds the Apple IIe > and the sides hld the disk drive, floppies, docs and hard drive. > Has anyone heard of the case or is it a custom one of a kind part? > Any information would be appreciated. This is most likely not a custom case. Several manufacturers made travel cases for Apple // computers. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From adam at merlin.net.au Thu Feb 12 00:23:40 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Convex C3200 computer (Melbourne) Message-ID: <199802130522.PAA03352@arthur.merlin.net.au> Spotted this message today - I imagine that they don't appear too often. :) >We have a huge Convex C3200 computer (it would have been termed >a supercomputer when it was new). It's basically worthless to us. > >Best offer thanks, and you pay for the transport. It weighs lots. > >It has 4 IPI disk drives, a DLT tape unit (x4) a versatec VME plotter >plus, the all time favorite, one of those reel to reel tape units. >(Storage tec 90, 2920 model). What is it? Is it the sort of thing that desperatly needs saving? I probably can't pick it up myself, as it is in the wrong state and I suspect a car with a trailer may still have trouble bringing it back, but I hope there is someone here from Melbourne or Sydney who can handle it. :) Adam. From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Thu Feb 12 23:45:23 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Convex C3200 computer (Melbourne) In-Reply-To: <199802130522.PAA03352@arthur.merlin.net.au> from "Adam Jenkins" at Feb 12, 98 03:53:40 pm Message-ID: <9802130545.AA03195@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1188 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980212/65caa005/attachment.ksh From mallison at konnections.com Thu Feb 12 23:52:34 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. References: <199802111227.AA17014@world.std.com> <34e97a8f.2492826@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: <34E3DFA1.366C@konnections.com> I had an IBM 360k that I was using, no compliants. I started having data problems moving stuff from a true 1.2M to the 360. Later, I put a 360 in the other computer and I still had problems. Finally, I figured it out, the IBM was either out of alignment, or shot... Could it just simply be the 360k drive? -Mike Barry Peterson wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:27:01 -0500, you said: > > >Scandisk works excellent for me here even on my Leading Edge XT. It's > >something your doing not scandisk. > > Maybe it's a difference between the XT and AT BIOS or how the format > command is executed, I wasn't "doing" anything but: > > 1) format b: > (Responding to prompts as appropriate) > 2)scandisk b: > (Error message reported by said scandisk program) > > No parameters, no modifiers, nothing more than the above two commands > _______________ > > Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net > Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, > Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From gram at cnct.com Thu Feb 12 23:53:34 1998 From: gram at cnct.com (Ward Donald Griffiths III) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Real hackers References: <3.0.16.19980212182542.4be7d0ba@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <34E3DFDE.59F3769C@cnct.com> Uncle Roger wrote: > Speaking whihc, has anyone else ever read Heinlein's book (whose name I've > forgotten) about the inventor whose partners steal everything and freeze > him for 20 years etc? One of the things he invents is an automated vacuum > cleaner. When Heinlein wrote the book, I'm sure that would have been very > expensive and very difficult to do. Now, however, it would seem like an > acheivable goal, especially since Heinlein does a lot of the specs for > you... So how come you can't buy one at Target? Anyone want to make millions? > > (That book, btw, is what made me want to be an EE (along with Steve Ciarcia > calling it "programming in solder"). Perhaps someday I'll finally get to > become one...) The book is _The Door into Summer_ and while admittedly the story has become a bit dated (there wasn't a limited nuclear war in 1970 and suspended animation _still_ hasn't hit the market), it is definitely still a damned good read. In many instances, the proposed inventions have been vastly superceded by the PC revolution -- a "Drafting Dan" model would be no match for several shareware CAD systems I've used, let alone AutoCAD. And of course we have much better equipment than "Thorsen memory tubes". The trouble with the proposed automatic housecleaning equipment has been the fact that even when vacuuming the floor, the decision tree can be humongous. Still, having fairly recently reread the book, I've gotton a few fresh ideas. Trouble is that I'm not half the hardware hacker I need to be, especially when it comes to the mechanical side. I highly recommend the book, but then again I highly recommend almost everything Heinlein ever wrote. Heinlein's influence probably did more to interest me in mathematics and technology (including computers) than any other thing in my youth, and thus directly got me into this mailing list. I'm still trying to figure out how to tie all of these incompatible machines together to come up with something comparable to Mycroft Holmes. -- Ward Griffiths Dylan: How many years must some people exist, before they're allowed to be free? WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", they'll never be free. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Thu Feb 12 19:22:09 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Real hackers In-Reply-To: <34E3DFDE.59F3769C@cnct.com> Message-ID: <199802130616.BAA23064@mail.cgocable.net> Snip! > > The book is _The Door into Summer_ and while admittedly the story has > become a bit dated (there wasn't a limited nuclear war in 1970 and > suspended animation _still_ hasn't hit the market), it is definitely > still a damned good read. In many instances, the proposed inventions > have been vastly superceded by the PC revolution -- a "Drafting Dan" > model would be no match for several shareware CAD systems I've used, > let alone AutoCAD. And of course we have much better equipment than > "Thorsen memory tubes". The trouble with the proposed automatic > housecleaning equipment has been the fact that even when vacuuming > the floor, the decision tree can be humongous. Still, having fairly > recently reread the book, I've gotton a few fresh ideas. Trouble is > that I'm not half the hardware hacker I need to be, especially when it > comes to the mechanical side. > > I highly recommend the book, but then again I highly recommend almost > everything Heinlein ever wrote. Heinlein's influence probably did > more to interest me in mathematics and technology (including computers) > than any other thing in my youth, and thus directly got me into this > mailing list. I'm still trying to figure out how to tie all of these > incompatible machines together to come up with something comparable to > Mycroft Holmes. > -- > Ward Griffiths > Dylan: How many years must some people exist, > before they're allowed to be free? > WDG3rd: If they "must" exist until they're "allowed", > they'll never be free. > Heinlein's books are very pretty good SCI-Fiction and I have did read many of them but I did not read this book you have have shown us. Funny, some of them were written very close to 50s-60s technologies level and used in a way that even basic readers can feel comfortable understanding but "totally hi-techy" and very few books that he wrote did say or used computers or automations I think. Jason D. PS; /*bit off topic, Oh, quick Q got or know anyone with a AMI Baby Voyager serie 39 486dx only motherboard? This needs bios image of it, this had no bios cuz some scum removed em before I got ahold of it. I have contacted AMI and they wanted $40USD for this set and requires credit card back on topic*/ email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From mallison at konnections.com Fri Feb 13 00:28:58 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: disk equals license References: <3.0.16.19980212184557.4bdfd270@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <34E3E82A.6C7D@konnections.com> Uncle Roger wrote: > Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz > software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks > for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives > me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc. > > Who (if anyone) is wrong? > > Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original > disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate > before? You're wrong (in this case) You stole the upgrade from the company because you didn't have the right to the upgrade. Then you stole the upgrade. You now have a free copy running on your machine. You didn't pay for the original disks (not a crime) but the SINGLE entitlement to the upgrade was already used. You have no further right to upgrade.... -Mike From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Feb 13 00:32:07 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Apricot F1 - help, please! Message-ID: <01bd3849$1b294720$38f438cb@nostromo> A lot of scouting around (www.apricot.com.uk is no longer active) dug up the following, which is particularly useful - in particular, anydisk.zip looks teriffic!! http://www.apricot.co.uk/ftp/bbs/atsbbs/allfiles.htm Cheers Andrew -----Original Message----- From: Tony Duell To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 1:50 PM Subject: Re: Apricot F1 - help, please! >> >> Amazingly enough, there is a ton (relatively) of F1 stuff on Apricot's UK >> web site file library... > >Do you happen to have the URL for that ? > >ADVthanksANCE > >> >> Kai > >-tony > > From jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au Fri Feb 13 01:43:03 1998 From: jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Apricot F1 - help, please! Message-ID: <01bd3853$04340140$6c3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> This web site is probably only relevant to the PC Apricots. There is info on older stuff like the F10 at: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4462/apricot.html -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Davie To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, 13 February 1998 17:42 Subject: Re: Apricot F1 - help, please! >A lot of scouting around (www.apricot.com.uk is no longer active) dug up the >following, which is particularly useful - in particular, anydisk.zip looks >teriffic!! > >http://www.apricot.co.uk/ftp/bbs/atsbbs/allfiles.htm > >Cheers >Andrew > >-----Original Message----- >>From: Tony Duell >To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers > >Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 1:50 PM >Subject: Re: Apricot F1 - help, please! > > >>> >>> Amazingly enough, there is a ton (relatively) of F1 stuff on Apricot's UK >>> web site file library... >> >>Do you happen to have the URL for that ? >> >>ADVthanksANCE >> >>> >>> Kai >> >>-tony >> >> > From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Feb 13 01:49:38 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Real hackers Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980212234658.4057655e@ricochet.net> At 09:06 PM 2/12/98 -0600, you wrote: >Speaking whihc, has anyone else ever read Heinlein's book (whose name I've >forgotten) about the inventor whose partners steal everything and freeze Okay, a little webbery (www.amazon.com) and the title is, _The Door Into Summer_. (So named, because the protagonist's cat was always looking for a door that opened into summer during the winter, but of course, so are we all...) --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From bmpete at swbell.net Fri Feb 13 02:02:48 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. In-Reply-To: <34E3DFA1.366C@konnections.com> References: <199802111227.AA17014@world.std.com> <34e97a8f.2492826@mail.swbell.net> <34E3DFA1.366C@konnections.com> Message-ID: <34e3fde3.3971077@mail.swbell.net> On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 22:52:34 -0700, you said: >I had an IBM 360k that I was using, no compliants. I started having >data problems moving stuff from a true 1.2M to the 360. Later, I put a >360 in the other computer and I still had problems. Finally, I figured >it out, the IBM was either out of alignment, or shot... > >Could it just simply be the 360k drive? 6 of 'em? Same symptoms exactly? _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au Fri Feb 13 02:09:50 1998 From: jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: IBM PC-Junior Message-ID: <01bd3856$c1e38be0$6c3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> If you found this in Australia with a 240v power supply, this is a unique computer. I don't think the "PC Junior" was ever sold outside the US. Most of the design was however later used by IBM Japan, and sold in Australia as the PC JX. It is probably very similar but had a different monitor and a different looking case. PC JX's are fairly common here as they were used in schools etc, but on the other hand they may be disappearing. I think they are classic computers and collectible. -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Davie To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, 13 February 1998 14:47 Subject: IBM PC-Junior >"some IBM PC Junior pieces (a monitor, printer, cpu, keyboard). last time i >plugged it in, it worked" > >I would appreciate some info; I don't knnow anything about this one. >Should I grab it, and if so, what is a fair price? Ie: is it scarce, do i >want it. > >Andrew > From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Feb 13 03:21:48 1998 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: disk equals license Message-ID: <01bd3860$cf966dc0$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us> I Must dissagree. The person who willfully sell's the product and surrenders the original's to you has transferred the license. It is the original purchaser who is wrong. He has obligated himself at that point to remove the software from his machine, or he shouldn't have sold the license in the firstplace. -----Original Message----- From: Mike Allison To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 12:24 AM Subject: Re: disk equals license >Uncle Roger wrote: >> Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz >> software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks >> for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives >> me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc. >> >> Who (if anyone) is wrong? >> >> Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original >> disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate >> before? > >You're wrong (in this case) You stole the upgrade from the company >because you didn't have the right to the upgrade. Then you stole the >upgrade. You now have a free copy running on your machine. > >You didn't pay for the original disks (not a crime) but the SINGLE >entitlement to the upgrade was already used. You have no further right >to upgrade.... > >-Mike > From thedm at sunflower.com Fri Feb 13 03:24:50 1998 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: disk equals license Message-ID: <01bd3861$3beb4720$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us> Whoops, I didn't read it all. Only the person that posseses the license is the person who owns it. It dosn't matter who original purchased it, if the license was purchased it is then transferred. But if you give the disks back, and keep the software, your the bad guy. [sorry, just woke up] -----Original Message----- From: Mike Allison To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Friday, February 13, 1998 12:24 AM Subject: Re: disk equals license >Uncle Roger wrote: >> Here's a question... Let's say my friend, who has a legal copy of xyz >> software, buys the upgrade version of xyz 2.0. He installs it, it checks >> for the previous version, and all is right with the world. He then gives >> me his old xyz 1.0 disks. I install it, purchase the upgrade, etc. >> >> Who (if anyone) is wrong? >> >> Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original >> disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate >> before? > >You're wrong (in this case) You stole the upgrade from the company >because you didn't have the right to the upgrade. Then you stole the >upgrade. You now have a free copy running on your machine. > >You didn't pay for the original disks (not a crime) but the SINGLE >entitlement to the upgrade was already used. You have no further right >to upgrade.... > >-Mike > From foxvideo at wincom.net Fri Feb 13 06:47:37 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Real hackers In-Reply-To: <3.0.16.19980212182542.4be7d0ba@ricochet.net> Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980213074737.0068df00@mail.wincom.net> At 09:06 PM 2/12/98 -0600, you wrote: >At 08:17 PM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>> The book is "A Door into Summer", 1957, included in "A Heinlein Trio", Doubleday. It's a good read! Cheers Charlie Fox >Speaking whihc, has anyone else ever read Heinlein's book (whose name I've >forgotten) about the inventor whose partners steal everything and freeze >him for 20 years etc? One of the things he invents is an automated vacuum >cleaner. When Heinlein wrote the book, I'm sure that would have been very >expensive and very difficult to do. Now, however, it would seem like an >acheivable goal, especially since Heinlein does a lot of the specs for >you... So how come you can't buy one at Target? Anyone want to make millions? > >(That book, btw, is what made me want to be an EE (along with Steve Ciarcia >calling it "programming in solder"). Perhaps someday I'll finally get to >become one...) > > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- O- > >Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad >roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." >Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates >San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ > From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Feb 12 08:18:48 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Apple II info ? In-Reply-To: References: <199802102340.SAA17017@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: <199802131927.OAA22653@smtp.interlog.com> On 10 Feb 98 at 19:46, Sam Ismail wrote: > On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > I just picked up an AppleII and 2 FDDs with a bunch of add-ons > > at a local thrift store. The only Apple I have explored is my Mac+. > > Anyone able to identify the cards ? > > > > Grapple+ Printer Interface......... Serial, Parallel ?? > > A very nice parallel printer interface with a 64K buffer. > > > Multiflex Tech ...Long card with kludged cable to an RCA male > > connector and another to a clothes-pin chip staddler labelled > > AP TC/14. Two labelled chips "Firmware" and "Char. Gen." (imagine > > this is a video card of some sort.) > > An 80-column card (Apple ][ and ][+ computers came stock with 40 columns). > > > CableTV kludge to a "SUP 'R' MOD CH.33 TV Interface Unit ?? > > This enabled Apple to comply the FCC requirements for a Class ? computing > device. This means you did in fact get an Apple ][ and not a ][+. Very > nice find, especially for a thrift store. > > > It also has what I imagine is stock Ext. video (single RCA) and > > cassette (2 mini-pin i/o ) > > Correct. The RCA is for a monochrome monitor. The two 1/8" phone plugs > are for reading/writing data from/to cassette, as well as digitizing audio > (ask if you're interested). > > > Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass > > Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 > See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! > Thanks, Sam. I , hooked it up to my multi-purpose Commodore 1702, dug thru some extraneous disks I had accumulated, put a program called "Homeword" in the drive, and was pleased to see it works fine. I had expected it to not work without an Apple-dos boot disk. So far my problem has been sifting thru the wealth of material available on the I-net re the Apple II. The csa2 faq seems to be mainly about the GS. I also have an Apple II Duodisk, which unlike the II fdd s has a DB25 pin female connector. Were these for the GS or did Apple simply upgrade the disk connections with the + or A-3. would it work on a II with an adapter ? I contacted the Toronto-area guy re the TRS-80 and am going to be inheriting a bunch of TRS80 stuff including the HDDs and several monitors as well as manuals and Tandy CP/M (??) which I wasn't aware of. He's also giving me some AppleII s. Must be my year for Tandy Apples :^)) (couldn't he'p mself.) ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From kroma at worldnet.att.net Fri Feb 13 13:45:24 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Apple II info ? Message-ID: <022c01bd38b7$ee0c5c40$64f8430a@kroma-i> I also have an Apple II Duodisk, which unlike the II fdd s has a DB25 pin female connector. Were these for the GS or did Apple simply upgrade the disk connections with the + or A-3. would it work on a II with an adapter ? ----------- Actually the Duodisk never worked properly on the GS. They were designed for latter model //e's. Apple redesigned the Disk 2 controller card to use the new connector. -- Kirk From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Feb 13 13:54:46 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Apple II info ? In-Reply-To: <199802131927.OAA22653@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 12, 98 02:18:48 pm Message-ID: <9802131954.AA30361@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 520 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980213/0fdcf282/attachment.ksh From maxeskin at hotmail.com Fri Feb 13 15:58:10 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: System/34 contd. Message-ID: <19980213215810.20859.qmail@hotmail.com> Needless to say, I was extremely disappointed when I was told that the manuals and software for the System/34 were thrown away, along with 5 5250 video terminals. There are three left, and I picked up one of the two remaining manuals. If was somewhat amused by some parts of the manuals. for example, after instructions on mailing comments, "Comments become the property of IBM". A full page on safety, including CPR instructions. On line reads,"Wer safety glasses when performing any work that may be hazardous to your eyes. REMEMBER-THEY ARE YOUR EYES" another,"Knowing safety rules is not enough. An unsafe act will inevitbly lead to an accident. Use good judgement - eliminate unsafe acts." A warning"The display station has a weight of ~ 34kg (75lb). NEVER LIFT BY YOURSELF" With all this, I'm surprised they ever got sued... PS Does anyone have the jumper setting for a Tiara Lancard /E*AT? PPS I am reading "The Soul of a New Machine". Great book! ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Feb 13 16:04:14 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: System/34 contd. In-Reply-To: <19980213215810.20859.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <13332098476.11.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> [loss of manuals....] That's OK, I have most of the manuals. Anything specific? I can't let them go, they're only copies, but I can post anything specific you may be needing... ------- From dlw at neosoft.com Fri Feb 13 10:54:09 1998 From: dlw at neosoft.com (David Williams) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Friday the 13th is good luck! In-Reply-To: <19980213215810.20859.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: <199802132254.QAA16296@mailbox.neosoft.com> Who says Friday the 13th is bad luck? There's a place down the street from my office with a sign that says they buy and sell old computers. Never had a chance to stop by before today. Turns out they're (surprise) scrap dealers. Well I got to talking to the guy there and told him that I picked up older systems and the type of stuff I was interested in. While talking to him I saw an Atari system which when I checked turned out to be a 1200XL. Don't have one of those so I picked it up from him. He said if he had know I'd want it he would have grabbed all the other stuff that went with it instead of just the system. Then I asked him if he ever came across PDPs. What luck, they had a PDP-11/34 in a 9' rack with two RK05 drives and tons of cards that his crew had just started to tear apart. On of the drives was already beyond help but he sold me the rest of the system, other drive and rack. Then he said he thought he had another PDP which turned out to be a DG Nova-3. I grabbed it too though it turns out to only be the chassis. No cards inside at all. I'm heading out of town this weekend but we set everything aside and made arrangements to pick it all up Monday. Now I can't wait to get back next week and start checking out the systems. He was a very pleasant person to talk with and asked what types of items I was looking for and how to contact me. May turn out to by a good source. A lucky day indeed. ----- David Williams - Computer Packrat dlw@neosoft.com http://www.neosoft.com/~dlw From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 13 16:27:29 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: IBM PC-Junior In-Reply-To: <01bd3856$c1e38be0$6c3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> from "Olminkhof" at Feb 13, 98 07:09:50 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1257 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980213/31ce85f8/attachment.ksh From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Feb 13 18:10:37 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Opening PDP-11/44 CPU Message-ID: Well, I've got a long weekend, so I've decided to start in on my restoration project by determining exactly what I've got. I few minutes ago I figured out how to get into the RL02 drives, only to discover they are empty. Now I'm trying to figure out how on earth to open up the CPU to find out what cards are in it. Both James Willing and myself spent a little time trying to figure this out the day I bought it with no luck. Finally gave up and moved it with the CPU still in the rack. The CPU in question is sitting in the top of a DEC rack that I believe is about 4' high. There appear to be some sort of hydralic things on either side of the box. Anybody have any questions, ideas, or suggestions? Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From william at ans.net Fri Feb 13 19:26:12 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Convex C3200 computer (Melbourne) In-Reply-To: <199802130522.PAA03352@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: > >We have a huge Convex C3200 computer (it would have been termed > >a supercomputer when it was new). It's basically worthless to us. A big mini-supercomputer, basically. Not quite in the Cray or ETA category, but getting there - it probably would be fairly close in performance to a Cray-1 or very low end X/MP. > What is it? Is it the sort of thing that desperatly needs saving? I > probably can't pick it up myself, as it is in the wrong state and I > suspect a car with a trailer may still have trouble bringing it back, but > I hope there is someone here from Melbourne or Sydney who can handle it. If it were in the U.S., I would definitely try. Of course, you probably will not be able to run it! Supercomputers are a bit special when it comes to how "classic" they are. Nearly all are individuals and have VERY few siblings. William Donzelli william@ans.net From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Fri Feb 13 19:39:27 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Opening PDP-11/44 CPU In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 13, 98 04:10:37 pm Message-ID: <9802140139.AA02080@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 955 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980213/bf628444/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Fri Feb 13 19:19:31 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Opening PDP-11/44 CPU In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 13, 98 04:10:37 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2192 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980214/12b1c3e1/attachment.ksh From sinasohn at ricochet.net Fri Feb 13 19:59:35 1998 From: sinasohn at ricochet.net (Uncle Roger) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: disk equals license Message-ID: <3.0.16.19980213132941.0b07502a@ricochet.net> At 10:22 PM 2/12/98, you wrote: > He is. Having the original version was a condition to him being allowed >to buy the upgrade. I suspect that that varies from vendor to vendor. Furthermore, unless it is specifically stated on the info about getting the upgrade, I don't think it would hold true, legally. > That says it all. You must have the old version as a condition to have >the upgrade. Unless the license for the new version eliminates the license (or inherits, if you prefer) for the old version. Which would make the old system disks as invalid (unlicensed, whatever) as a backup of the old version. --------------------------------------------------------------------- O- Uncle Roger "There is pleasure pure in being mad roger@sinasohn.com that none but madmen know." Roger Louis Sinasohn & Associates San Francisco, California http://www.sinasohn.com/ From rigdonj at intellistar.net Fri Feb 13 21:20:53 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Disk Exerciser Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980213212053.533f9de6@intellistar.net> Hi, went to a hamfest and picked up a Wango Disc Exerciser. Can anyone tell me what drives it works works on? It's a blue box about 5 x 8" inches in size and 3/4" think and has a ribbon cable connector at one end. It has the following switches: Start, auto-man, seq-alt, inc-fix-dec, 200 -100 TPI, Top-Bot Head, Rem-Fix Disc, Restore. I have used disk exercisers before so I know what all the switches are for, I just need to know what drive(s) it' for. Joe From mallison at konnections.com Fri Feb 13 21:37:01 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Scanlon Assembly Book Message-ID: <34E5115D.42AC@konnections.com> I'm trying to find a copy of Leo Scanlon's original IBM PC assembly language book. Seems like it had a lion on the cover. I gave mine away in 1988 to help someone out (hope it helped) and I need a new copy. I've made do with others, but I really liked that one. Any takers??? Thanks alot.. Mike Allison From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Feb 13 21:55:38 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 Boards Message-ID: Something tells me this machine isn't going to be running anytime soon. Here is what I found when I got into the CPU. M7090 KD11-Z 11/44 console interface module M7093 FP11-F 11/44 floating point module M7094 KD11-Z 11/44 data path module M7095 KD11-Z 11/44 control module M7096 KD11-Z 11/44 multifunction module M7097 KK11-B 11/44 4-Kword cache module M7098 KD11-Z 11/44 UNIBUS interface M7762 RL11 RL01/02 disk drive controller M9902 M7762 RL11 RL01/02 disk drive controller M8256 RX211 RX02 floppy disk drive control module M7819 DZ11-A 8-line double-buffered async EIA with modem control (50 to 96-Kbaud, 64-byte silo) M7819 DZ11-A 8-line double-buffered async EIA with modem control (50 to 96-Kbaud, 64-byte silo) M7800 DL11 Async transmitter & receiver, 110-2400 baud Based on the info on the cover, the system is missing the following. M7091 KE44-A 11/44 CIS control store module M7092 KE44-A 11/44 CIS data path/logic module M8743 MS11-PB 1-Mbyte ECC RAM M7521 DELUA-AA UNIBUS to ethernet adaptor SPC BC11-25 TO TM11 I've no idea what the last three are, I suspect the 'TO TM11' is actually the huge ribbon cable that is plugged into the backplane. I'm assuming that without the M7091 and M7092 that there is no use in coming up with a RAM board. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From mallison at konnections.com Fri Feb 13 22:12:24 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Wrong Author -- Assembly Book References: <34E5115D.42AC@konnections.com> Message-ID: <34E519A8.1FC3@konnections.com> I wrote about the wrong book. I really thought I had it. I searched through Amazon and finally found it. (the lion gave it away...) the title is: Assembly Language Safari on the IBM PC : First Explorations John Socha / Published 1985 Anyone having this book would be nice for parting ith it. Cash, trade, what have you?? -Mike Mike Allison wrote: > > I'm trying to find a copy of Leo Scanlon's original IBM PC assembly > language book. Seems like it had a lion on the cover. I gave mine away > in 1988 to help someone out (hope it helped) and I need a new copy. > I've made do with others, but I really liked that one. > > Any takers??? > > Thanks alot.. > > Mike Allison From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Fri Feb 13 22:13:14 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 Boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >BC11-25 >TO TM11 While putting the cover that I'd brought in to type up the message, I noticed that the 'huge cable' I'd mentioned is actually the BC11, so my guess is the note on the cover actually means 'the BC11-25 which goes TO the TM11'. At which point I admit I've no idea what a TM11 is :^) Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com Fri Feb 13 22:43:54 1998 From: DSEAGRAV at toad.xkl.com (Daniel A. Seagraves) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 Boards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <13332171235.16.DSEAGRAV@toad.xkl.com> I have a spare CIM, but it's toasted. If someone has a printset it may be repairable... ------- From adavie at mad.scientist.com Fri Feb 13 23:04:15 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: BBC Model B - video help Message-ID: <01bd3905$ff8703a0$3ef438cb@nostromo> I have just retreived a BBC computer. Seems to work fine, and I have managed to get directories of several of the (rather warped) 5.25 disks. I'm extremely surprised any data is readable at all - nice looking tandem dual floppy. However, onscreen I see there's a problem with the machine. I see perhaps 1/5th of the screen and then it repeats. Furthermore, the width of the screen isn't correct... that is, I see 20 or so character wide lines displaying and thus staircaising. I suspect its a hardware problem (almost 100% certain here, I've tried software mode changes - same in every mode), but have nil hardware expertise. So, when (occasionally) i see a > prompt, and type, i see what I type perhaps 20 times in varying places on the screen, each line offset from the other. Can anyone suggest my first steps to playing with it - what sort of chips should I be looking for, perhaps? I know, I'm behind the 8-ball, but you're all such brilliant guys at restoration, right? Any help much appreciated. Cheers Andrew From "cad at " at gamewood.net Fri Feb 13 23:22:44 1998 From: "cad at " at gamewood.net (Charles A. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: BBC Model B - video help References: <01bd3905$ff8703a0$3ef438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <199802140528.AAA03565@fox.gamewood.net> Andrew Davie wrote: > > I have just retreived a BBC computer. > Seems to work fine, and I have managed to get directories of several of the > (rather warped) 5.25 disks. I'm extremely surprised any data is readable at > all - nice looking tandem dual floppy. > However, onscreen I see there's a problem with the machine. > I see perhaps 1/5th of the screen and then it repeats. Furthermore, the > width of the screen isn't correct... that is, I see 20 or so character wide > lines displaying and thus staircaising. I suspect its a hardware problem > (almost 100% certain here, I've tried software mode changes - same in every > mode), but have nil hardware expertise. > So, when (occasionally) i see a > prompt, and type, i see what I type > perhaps 20 times in varying places on the screen, each line offset from the > other. > Can anyone suggest my first steps to playing with it - what sort of chips > should I be looking for, perhaps? > I know, I'm behind the 8-ball, but you're all such brilliant guys at > restoration, right? > Any help much appreciated. > Cheers > Andrew Hi Andrew: Here is what I would look for and try to adjust --- Horizontal frequency. This sounds like it is some multiple of the desired (for the monitor) rate. That's what's getting the multiple images across the width of the screen. Also (maybe first, but definitely in conjunction with the above) look for 'Vertical' frequency/lock. This one is what is getting you multiple images in the vertical direction. Memory says that the adjustment is "roll down (image) and just return the adjustment the other direction till it locks in place." The 'horizontal lock' is a much courser adjustment. (This is all standard TV/Monitor adjustment stuff. If anyone has any specific advice different from this, by all means, give it a try.) Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- (be sure to correct the return address when using 'reply') Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From dastar at wco.com Sat Feb 14 00:14:11 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Apple II info ? In-Reply-To: <199802131927.OAA22653@smtp.interlog.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Lawrence Walker wrote: > > > I just picked up an AppleII and 2 FDDs with a bunch of add-ons > > > at a local thrift store. The only Apple I have explored is my Mac+. > > > Anyone able to identify the cards ? > > Thanks, Sam. I , hooked it up to my multi-purpose Commodore 1702, > dug thru some extraneous disks I had accumulated, put a program > called "Homeword" in the drive, and was pleased to see it works fine. > I had expected it to not work without an Apple-dos boot disk. > So far my problem has been sifting thru the wealth of material > available on the I-net re the Apple II. The csa2 faq seems to be > mainly about the GS. The Apple ][, unlike some other computer systems, doesn't really need a boot disk. All software that I ever had for the Apple had the disk operating system included on the disk. You just stick it in the drive and it boots. Apple DOS 3.3 took only 3 tracks of the disk (3 tracks * 16 sectors per track = 48 sectors). Some of this was bloat. There were other DOS systems made by third parties that used even less space, like ProntoDOS by Beagle Bros. which only used 34 sectors (2 tracks plus two sectors on the 3rd track) making the other 14 sectors available for file storage. ProntoDOS was also a "fast" DOS that sped up reading and writing 3 fold. There were plenty of alternate DOS' that provided this feature, such as Diversi-DOS, DAVID DOS, Super DOS, etc. Most of these employed some simple hacks to the original Apple DOS to make it fast by eliminating some double buffering that Apple DOS was doing (reading data into one buffer then copying it to its destination buffer). These fast-DOS's loaded the files directly into their target memory address. Some added little features to DOS to allow it to show free sectors on a disk and other little enhancements. But the original Apple DOS code was so tight that there wasn't much room left over for adding functionality without either using up more memory (which would piss off programmers) or removing other DOS functionality (which would also piss some programmers off). > I also have an Apple II Duodisk, which unlike the II fdd s has a > DB25 pin female connector. Were these for the GS or did Apple > simply upgrade the disk connections with the + or A-3. would it > work on a II with an adapter ? This drive connects to the Apple Floppy Drive Controller with the DB-15 connector (not DB25), not the Disk ][ interface (with the ribbon connector cable). This drive works on the Apple //gs as well. There were also the Unidisks (later simply called the Apple 5.25" floppy drive) which were the counterpart to the Duodisk. Again, these connected to the new type interface card which made the old Disk ][ interface not so much obsolete but the new interface superceded it. > I contacted the Toronto-area guy re the TRS-80 and am going to > be inheriting a bunch of TRS80 stuff including the HDDs and several > monitors as well as manuals and Tandy CP/M (??) which I wasn't aware > of. He's also giving me some AppleII s. Must be my year for Tandy > Apples :^)) (couldn't he'p mself.) Cool deal. I'm glad that worked out for someone. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Sat Feb 14 00:26:20 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: Apple II info ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Sam Ismail wrote: > > I also have an Apple II Duodisk, which unlike the II fdd s has a > > DB25 pin female connector. Were these for the GS or did Apple > > simply upgrade the disk connections with the + or A-3. would it > > work on a II with an adapter ? > > This drive connects to the Apple Floppy Drive Controller with the DB-15 > connector (not DB25), not the Disk ][ interface (with the ribbon connector Just to correct what I said, as Tim pointed out the connector is a 19-pin type. Also, since I never owned a GS I did not realize that the Duodisk did not automatically work with it. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Sat Feb 14 00:44:44 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 Boards In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 13, 98 07:55:38 pm Message-ID: <9802140644.AA03893@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 861 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980213/6c6c9aa0/attachment.ksh From jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au Sat Feb 14 01:30:53 1998 From: jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: IBM PC-Junior Message-ID: <01bd391a$7b5bf940$6c3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> >The monitor is a standard CGA monitor with an adapter cable. I can >provide wirelists if anyone needs them. The printer port sidecar has a I thought it had a special monitor, mainly because video display modes 8, 9 and 10 were exclusive to it. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Feb 14 01:52:21 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:31:59 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 Boards In-Reply-To: <9802140644.AA03893@alph02.triumf.ca> References: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 13, 98 07:55:38 pm Message-ID: >> M7091 KE44-A 11/44 CIS control store module >> M7092 KE44-A 11/44 CIS data path/logic module > >The above are purely optional - unless you've got some DIBOL codes >that you need to run on this box... That's a major relief, that means I'm not quite as bad off as I'd thought. >> M8743 MS11-PB 1-Mbyte ECC RAM > >Memory isn't so optional. Am I correct in assuming that you are without >any memory boards? Well, I assume that I can't use Q-Bus memory in it? If I could I'd have some memory. Still needing memory isn't as bad as needing part of the CPU :^) >> M7521 DELUA-AA UNIBUS to ethernet adaptor > >Again, quite optional. I realized this was optional, but it would have been cool to have. What can I say, I like ethernet :^) > >> SPC > >"SPC" is the generic term for "small peripheral controller". If there >isn't a controller in the slot, there should be at least a Unibus >grant continuity flip chip. Might have been, I noticed some of the slots had "chips" in them, this might have been one of them. >> BC11-25 >> TO TM11 > >The cable out to a tape formatter. You should be able to pull the cable >and put a Unibus terminator in here. An 11/44 will complain if you >try to run it without the bus terminated. Glad to hear this can be pulled that cable has been a pain! Thanks for the help tonite, while the system isn't as complete as I'd hoped, at least I now know it isn't quite as hopeless as I'd started to fear! Looks like I've got to hunt up a couple RL02 disk packs, memory, and a OS. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From rws at ais.net Sat Feb 14 02:41:14 1998 From: rws at ais.net (Richard W. Schauer) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Diablo 1340 terminal? Message-ID: Hi all- Tonight I got a Diablo 1340 hardcopy terminal. It looks like a table with a Diablo 1550 typewriter on top of it, but the typewriter is part of the table. Inside the large black box under the table are power supplies, cardcages, fans, etc. It works, except for one thing: whether in local or remote, whenever the 1550 gets a carriage return, it rams the home hard stop and the ALARM and PRINTER CHECK lights go on. I press ALARM to reset it and it works fine until the next carriage return. I tried adjusting the home stop in and out (it's actually a stiff spring-loaded stop) with no luck. When the terminal is first powered on and it seeks home (slowly) it does fine, without hitting the stop. Any ideas? (BTW this thing is just jam-packed with 7400 series logic and a couple of chips I can't identify. It was built in 1974 and installed in May 1975- I even got the maintenance record with this thing. It's serial no. 769.) Richard Schauer rws@ais.net From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Feb 14 09:19:09 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc. Message-ID: <01bd395b$e630b1c0$6c62bcc1@hotze> Hi. I wanted to know what printers are avaible for an Apple ][+, with 64K RAM, as well as any other disk drives other than the Disk II. Also, where can I get one of these (either of the above items)? Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980214/ecf5743c/attachment.html From thedm at sunflower.com Sat Feb 14 10:18:10 1998 From: thedm at sunflower.com (Bill Girnius) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc. Message-ID: <01bd3964$24642e60$42097c18@thedm.lawrence.ks.us> You can use just about any dot matrix printer made as long as you have a parallel port interface, which are very common second hand. Grappler is the best IMHO. -----Original Message----- From: Hotze To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 10:07 AM Subject: Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc. Hi. I wanted to know what printers are avaible for an Apple ][+, with 64K RAM, as well as any other disk drives other than the Disk II. Also, where can I get one of these (either of the above items)? Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980214/5a9b466f/attachment.html From marvin at rain.org Sat Feb 14 10:27:38 1998 From: marvin at rain.org (Marvin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: IBM PC-Junior References: <01bd391a$7b5bf940$6c3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> Message-ID: <34E5C5F9.3378B28B@rain.org> Olminkhof wrote: > >The monitor is a standard CGA monitor with an adapter cable. I can > >provide wirelists if anyone needs them. The printer port sidecar has a > > I thought it had a special monitor, mainly because video display modes 8, > 9 > and 10 were exclusive to it. Something that was also available for the PC Jr. was an adapter cable from the monitor header on the PC Jr. to a DB-9 standard video connector. I have used EGA monitors with no problems with this adapter cable installed. From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Feb 14 10:30:41 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Linux, Apache, Scripting books (Off-Topic) Message-ID: <01bd3965$e4380a80$6c62bcc1@hotze> Hi. I'm getting really interested in setting up a fairly good web server, and I want to learn all (most) about Linux, Apache, and CGI/Java scripting. What's needed, etc. If anyone could recommend some books, and, if they've got the ISBN's so I can find 'em.... Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980214/e79c773d/attachment.html From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Feb 14 10:35:06 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc. Message-ID: <2c478a99.34e5c7bc@aol.com> In a message dated 98-02-14 11:06:33 EST, you write: << Hi. I wanted to know what printers are avaible for an Apple ][+, with 64K RAM, as well as any other disk drives other than the Disk II. Also, where can I get one of these (either of the above items)? Thanks again, >> the best printer for apples would have been something like an epson fx80 or similar. most programs back then pretty much expected that model. i remember using print shop with an epson and it taking up to 30 minutes to print something and the teacher getting mad because it was so bad on the ribbon printing all that black! david From hansp at columbia.digiweb.com Sat Feb 14 11:39:01 1998 From: hansp at columbia.digiweb.com (Hans B Pufal) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Linux, Apache, Scripting books (Off-Topic) References: <01bd3965$e4380a80$6c62bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <34E5D6B5.565C@digiweb.com> Hotze wrote: > > Hi. I'm getting really interested in setting up a fairly good web > server, and I want to learn all (most) about Linux, Apache, and > CGI/Java scripting. What's needed, etc. > If anyone could recommend some books, and, if they've got the > ISBN's so I can find 'em.... > Thanks again, > > Tim D. Hotze For Apache : "Apache The Definitive Guide" by Ben Laurie and Peter Laurie, published by O'Reilly & Associates ISBN : 1-56592-250-6 -- Hans B. Pufal : Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sat Feb 14 11:17:33 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Linux, Apache, Scripting books (Off-Topic) In-Reply-To: <01bd3965$e4380a80$6c62bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: > Hi. I'm getting really interested in setting up a fairly good web >server, and I want to learn all (most) about Linux, Apache, and CGI/Java >scripting. What's needed, etc. If anyone could recommend some books, >and, >if they've got the ISBN's so I can find 'em.... Thanks again, Tim D. >Hotze Tim, If you aren't familiar with UNIX, you'll need a book on Linux, but I don't know that you need to bother with one on Apache. When I installed it on my one machine about a year and a half ago, it took about an half an hour. As for CGI and Java, check O'Reilly's. Not sure what they've got on Java, but they should have a good book on CGI. I say do a little surfing first and see what info you can find on the net. There are several of the Linux books available on the net, in which case you only need the book if you're like me and just have to have your doc's in book form. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From photze at batelco.com.bh Sat Feb 14 11:13:45 1998 From: photze at batelco.com.bh (Hotze) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc. Message-ID: <01bd396b$e88bc580$6c62bcc1@hotze> OK... what's a cheap (small) compatible dot matrix? Thanks again, Tim d. Hotze -----Original Message----- From: Bill Girnius To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 7:20 PM Subject: Re: Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc. You can use just about any dot matrix printer made as long as you have a parallel port interface, which are very common second hand. Grappler is the best IMHO. -----Original Message----- From: Hotze To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Date: Saturday, February 14, 1998 10:07 AM Subject: Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc. Hi. I wanted to know what printers are avaible for an Apple ][+, with 64K RAM, as well as any other disk drives other than the Disk II. Also, where can I get one of these (either of the above items)? Thanks again, Tim D. Hotze -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980214/d7344227/attachment.html From aaron at prinsol.com Sat Feb 14 11:21:09 1998 From: aaron at prinsol.com (Aaron Christopher Finney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Linux, Apache, Scripting books (Off-Topic) In-Reply-To: <34E5D6B5.565C@digiweb.com> Message-ID: My choice is always the O'Reilley books (http://www.ora.com). I do most of my CGI stuff in Perl (since I do a lot of system stuff in it anyway) and they have the best books I've looked at (they have an especially good 'CGI for Perl in 60 minutes' or something like that). One of my favourite jump-off points for scripts is http://www.extropia.com/Scripts/. As for Linux....are you new to Unix? Start there. I bought one of those Que books for linux-specific stuff a while back and was not too impressed. I was going to take a look at Yggdrasil's 'Linux Bible', so if anyone has that one I'd like to hear what you think. There's one other book that I recall from a year ago, give or take, called something like 'Running a Perfect Internet Site With Linux' that may have everything you'll need to know about the system. The entire text used to be online, but that was some time ago. However, in order to fit this topic to the list, I really think you should abandon the idea of a web server and set up an *8-bit Atari BBS* instead. Mine was a 130XE with 384K ram (I did the upgrade myself - had to run it with the cover off because of the heat), 4 1050 disk drives, and a single 2400b Codex modem. I was 13 years old, I don't think I've ever had that much fun with a computer since. I had a "retro" system set up a year-or-so ago, but the only calls I ever got were from the guy who had helped me set up the original. Hope that helps, Aaron On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Hans B Pufal wrote: > Hotze wrote: > > > > Hi. I'm getting really interested in setting up a fairly good web > > server, and I want to learn all (most) about Linux, Apache, and > > CGI/Java scripting. What's needed, etc. > > If anyone could recommend some books, and, if they've got the > > ISBN's so I can find 'em.... > > Thanks again, > > > > Tim D. Hotze > > For Apache : "Apache The Definitive Guide" by Ben Laurie and Peter > Laurie, published by O'Reilly & Associates ISBN : 1-56592-250-6 > > -- > Hans B. Pufal : > Comprehensive Computer Catalogue : > _-_-__-___--_-____-_--_-_-____--_---_-_---_--__--_--_--____---_--_--__--_ > From wts at exo.com Sat Feb 14 13:50:30 1998 From: wts at exo.com (W. Tom Sanderson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. Message-ID: <01BD393E.C11E5CB0@altair.platsoft.com> If I remember correctly, The 1.2M drive uses a track 1/2 the width of the 360K drive. If you format a disk and write data with the same drive, there is no problem. The 1.2 drive can read down the middle of a 360K fat track and all is OK. The 360K drive can read the 1.2M skinny track and all is probably OK. The problem comes in when you use a 1.2M drive to write on a diskette that was previously written by a 360K drive. The skinny track is now on top of the fat track. The 360K drive will certainly have problems. It will read the new data in addition to 1/2 of the old data. Regards, Tom Sanderson wts@exo.com http://exo.com/~wts/wts10005.HTM Virtual Altair Museum -----Original Message----- From: Mike Allison [SMTP:mallison@konnections.com] Sent: Thursday, February 12, 1998 9:53 PM To: Discussion re-collecting of classic computers Subject: Re: Disk problems/questions. I had an IBM 360k that I was using, no compliants. I started having data problems moving stuff from a true 1.2M to the 360. Later, I put a 360 in the other computer and I still had problems. Finally, I figured it out, the IBM was either out of alignment, or shot... Could it just simply be the 360k drive? -Mike Barry Peterson wrote: > > On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:27:01 -0500, you said: > > >Scandisk works excellent for me here even on my Leading Edge XT. It's > >something your doing not scandisk. > > Maybe it's a difference between the XT and AT BIOS or how the format > command is executed, I wasn't "doing" anything but: > > 1) format b: > (Responding to prompts as appropriate) > 2)scandisk b: > (Error message reported by said scandisk program) > > No parameters, no modifiers, nothing more than the above two commands > _______________ > > Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net > Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, > Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/ms-tnef Size: 3528 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980214/aa7d7151/attachment.bin From maxeskin at hotmail.com Sat Feb 14 15:17:11 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Vacuum cleaners Message-ID: <19980214211711.7941.qmail@hotmail.com> Today I found in a magazine called T3 (essentially a high-tech catalog) a robotic vacuum cleaner just as we discussed recently. It uses radar, and works kind of like that robotic lawnmower released several year ago. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From foxvideo at wincom.net Sat Feb 14 15:32:31 1998 From: foxvideo at wincom.net (Charles E. Fox) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: IBM PC type 5150 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.19980214163231.0068c068@mail.wincom.net> I just picked up two of these at a thrift shop, 2 floppies, cassette jack, no hd. On the mounting plate of the floppy card is a female 37 contact 'D' connector. Can any one tell me what this was for? Regards Charlie Fox From yowza at yowza.com Sat Feb 14 15:43:48 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Yowza!) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: IBM PC type 5150 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980214163231.0068c068@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Charles E. Fox wrote: > > I just picked up two of these at a thrift shop, 2 floppies, cassette jack, > no hd. On the mounting plate of the floppy card is a female 37 contact 'D' > connector. Can any one tell me what this was for? The connector was for an optional external floppy drive, but I don't recall ever seeing anybody using one. -- Doug From spc at armigeron.com Sat Feb 14 16:03:19 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: IBM PC type 5150 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980214163231.0068c068@mail.wincom.net> from "Charles E. Fox" at Feb 14, 98 04:32:31 pm Message-ID: <199802142203.RAA12554@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Charles E. Fox once stated: > > > I just picked up two of these at a thrift shop, 2 floppies, cassette jack, > no hd. On the mounting plate of the floppy card is a female 37 contact 'D' > connector. Can any one tell me what this was for? > An external floppy drive. I don't know what the pinouts are though. -spc (Has external floppy drive for his Data General/One) From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Feb 12 11:05:23 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Apple II info ? In-Reply-To: <9802131954.AA30361@alph02.triumf.ca> References: <199802131927.OAA22653@smtp.interlog.com> from "Lawrence Walker" at Feb 12, 98 02:18:48 pm Message-ID: <199802142213.RAA27791@smtp.interlog.com> On 13 Feb 98 at 11:54, Tim Shoppa wrote: > > I also have an Apple II Duodisk, which unlike the II fdd s has a > > DB25 pin female connector. > > Did you actually count the number of pins? All the Duodisks I've > ever seen have a 19-pin connector. > > > Were these for the GS or did Apple > > simply upgrade the disk connections with the + or A-3. would it > > work on a II with an adapter ? > > Yes. See, for example, > > http://www.visi.com/~nathan/a2/faq/diskiicable.html > > to find David Empson's *extremely* detailed writeup on making such > a cable. > > Tim. (shoppa@triumf.ca) > I carefully counted the pin recepticles and there were indeed 25. Could this have been some sort of mod.? I checked out the URL mentioned and it is for 19 pins and he states it is also applicable for the Duodisk. The model # is A9M0108 ser# 392135. Very strange. ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Feb 14 17:57:07 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: IBM PC type 5150 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980214163231.0068c068@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980214175707.0917e82a@intellistar.net> It's for connecting external floppy drives. At 04:32 PM 2/14/98 -0500, you wrote: > > I just picked up two of these at a thrift shop, 2 floppies, cassette jack, >no hd. On the mounting plate of the floppy card is a female 37 contact 'D' >connector. Can any one tell me what this was for? > > Regards > Charlie Fox > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Feb 14 17:58:36 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: IBM PC type 5150 In-Reply-To: <199802142203.RAA12554@armigeron.com> References: <3.0.2.32.19980214163231.0068c068@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980214175836.42572256@intellistar.net> At 05:03 PM 2/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >It was thus said that the Great Charles E. Fox once stated: >> >> >> I just picked up two of these at a thrift shop, 2 floppies, cassette jack, >> no hd. On the mounting plate of the floppy card is a female 37 contact 'D' >> connector. Can any one tell me what this was for? >> > An external floppy drive. I don't know what the pinouts are though. I have the pinouts if anyone needs them. I built a cable to connect my NEC lap top via that port. Joe > > -spc (Has external floppy drive for his Data General/One) > > From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Feb 14 18:06:14 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: hamfest finds Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980214180614.425785a2@intellistar.net> Hi, I just got back from a hamfest. Found two brand new in the box full height Tandon floppy drives for the IBM PC. Rich, do you want one? I also bought two AT&T 3B1 computers without keyboards or monitors. Does anyone know if the keyboard and monitor from a AT&T 6300 will work on them? Or where I can find a monitor and keyboard? Also need any advice about how to get these up and running. What are all the ports for? etc Joe From dastar at wco.com Sat Feb 14 17:10:11 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: IBM PC type 5150 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980214163231.0068c068@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Charles E. Fox wrote: > I just picked up two of these at a thrift shop, 2 floppies, cassette jack, > no hd. On the mounting plate of the floppy card is a female 37 contact 'D' > connector. Can any one tell me what this was for? This is the original IBM PC. The connector is for an external floppy drive, and I believe other types of drives were designed to hook into it as well such as tape drives. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From mallison at konnections.com Sat Feb 14 17:16:07 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Apple II Hardware, Printers, etc. References: <01bd395b$e630b1c0$6c62bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <34E625B7.7196@konnections.com> I have a place here with about 6 external Apple II floppies. Most are around 7 - 10 bucks, untested. Lemme know if you wanme to check one out for you. -Mike Hotze wrote: > > Hi. I wanted to know what printers are avaible for an Apple ][+, with > 64K RAM, as well as any other disk drives other than the Disk II. > Also, where can I get one of these (either of the above items)? > Thanks again, > > Tim D. Hotze From mallison at konnections.com Sat Feb 14 17:19:00 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: NCR Computer References: <01bd391a$7b5bf940$6c3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> <34E5C5F9.3378B28B@rain.org> Message-ID: <34E62664.5D6B@konnections.com> Whom ever is the NCR expert: I'm sitting here with my eye on an NCR computer. CPU only, white case with brown face. Two 360k full height floppies. I can't get into it to see what it has, I'm wondering if it might be a CPM model or a clone. The only sticker says: CLASS: 5400 MODEL: 0102 And some other stuff. Ports are built in, "communications" "console" "printer" Any ideas? -Mike From mallison at konnections.com Sat Feb 14 17:22:08 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Linux, Apache, Scripting books (Off-Topic) References: <01bd3965$e4380a80$6c62bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <34E62720.447F@konnections.com> I can't give an ISBN off the top of my head, but there's one called "Setting up a web server with linux" or words to that effect. For free, there's a how-to on the matter. Linux Internet (or intranet, can't remember) how to. I can whip it into a PDF file if you'd like for you, or I could provide the postscript. Lemme know. -Mike Hotze wrote: > > Hi. I'm getting really interested in setting up a fairly good web > server, and I want to learn all (most) about Linux, Apache, and > CGI/Java scripting. What's needed, etc. > If anyone could recommend some books, and, if they've got the > ISBN's so I can find 'em.... > Thanks again, > > Tim D. Hotze From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sat Feb 14 17:49:18 1998 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: FREE Disk Drive! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980214154918.00e39720@mail.wizards.net> OK, here we go. LOCAL PICKUP ONLY in Kent, WA (near Seattle). There's no flaming way I'm shipping this thing unless someone wants to pay the freight up front. ;-) What I've got is a Century Data M315-1 SMD disk drive. 14" platters, God only knows what capacity it is. It seems to power up and spin up OK, is noisy as blazes, has a HUGE linear voice-coil head positioner, and that's about all I know (or want to know) about it. I'll happily hand this beast, along with its rack mounting rails, over to the first happy vic... uhh, 'volunteer' to speak up and say they'll come get it. Any takers? If not, and I can't get any from comp.sys.dec, I'll have no choice but to tear out the useful parts and scrap the rest. Drop me a note, please. I hate to scrap anything, but I need the room! I'd far rather give the beast to someone who can use it. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From mallison at konnections.com Sat Feb 14 18:09:58 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: hamfest finds References: <3.0.1.16.19980214180614.425785a2@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <34E63256.28F8@konnections.com> The only thing I ever knew ran on these was a special version of AT&T Unix. It was a great PC, though. Had a built in phone, modem, and a full UNIX distro. I think the monitor was a monographics type, sorta like hercules. Either computer shopper or byte did an article on them back when they came out. They were Marketed as the ATT 7300 Unix PC, as I recall. Lemme know if two is more than you need ... ; - > -Mike Joe wrote: > > Hi, I just got back from a hamfest. Found two brand new in the box full > height Tandon floppy drives for the IBM PC. Rich, do you want one? > > I also bought two AT&T 3B1 computers without keyboards or monitors. Does > anyone know if the keyboard and monitor from a AT&T 6300 will work on them? > Or where I can find a monitor and keyboard? Also need any advice about > how to get these up and running. What are all the ports for? etc > > Joe From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sat Feb 14 18:19:30 1998 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: MORE Freebies! Come and get 'em! Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980214161930.00e39e60@mail.wizards.net> OK, more freebies! What can I say? I really need the space. ;-) Once again, LOCAL PICKUP ONLY, KENT, WA (Near Seattle). There's no way I have the resources to ship this stuff. 1). At least 20 RL02 disk packs, one of which is the DEC Diagnostics kit for VAX11/730 and 750. There's also an RL02-based distribution kit for the VMS 5.4 upgrade, still in sealed boxes, with the license PAK and release notes. I also saw some RT11 ver. 5.1 packs. 2). A pair of RL02 disk drives, installed in a mini-rack. I'm keeping the Micro PDP-11/73 that was in the same rack, but I'll throw in the QBus RL controller. There may be some documentation I'll pass on as well -- I'll decide that when whoever comes by to get the stuff does so. Drop me an E-mail if you're interested and we'll set up a date. Thanks in advance! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 14 17:04:37 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: BBC Model B - video help In-Reply-To: <01bd3905$ff8703a0$3ef438cb@nostromo> from "Andrew Davie" at Feb 14, 98 04:04:15 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2412 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980214/a6f38e3e/attachment.ksh From donm at cts.com Sat Feb 14 19:03:47 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: NCR Computer In-Reply-To: <34E62664.5D6B@konnections.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Mike Allison wrote: > Whom ever is the NCR expert: > > I'm sitting here with my eye on an NCR computer. CPU only, white case > with brown face. Two 360k full height floppies. I can't get into it to > see what it has, I'm wondering if it might be a CPM model or a clone. Probably is, as there is/was an NCR-5400 CP/M machine. It has DSDD 96tpi drives, and if you are able to find a system disk for it, I'd appreciate a copy to add to the archive. (I only have one for the Decisionmate V.) - don > The only sticker says: > > CLASS: 5400 > MODEL: 0102 > > And some other stuff. > > Ports are built in, "communications" "console" "printer" > > Any ideas? > > -Mike > donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 14 17:08:01 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: IBM PC-Junior In-Reply-To: <01bd391a$7b5bf940$6c3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> from "Olminkhof" at Feb 14, 98 06:30:53 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 802 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980214/67607bca/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 14 16:53:27 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: PDP-11/44 Boards In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 13, 98 07:55:38 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 3099 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980214/8fc86fc7/attachment.ksh From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sat Feb 14 17:18:49 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: IBM PC type 5150 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980214163231.0068c068@mail.wincom.net> from "Charles E. Fox" at Feb 14, 98 04:32:31 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 959 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980214/1bfb7a85/attachment.ksh From bmpete at swbell.net Sat Feb 14 19:45:13 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. In-Reply-To: <01BD393E.C11E5CB0@altair.platsoft.com> References: <01BD393E.C11E5CB0@altair.platsoft.com> Message-ID: <34e646bc.1638687@mail.swbell.net> On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 11:50:30 -0800, you said: >If I remember correctly, The 1.2M drive uses a track 1/2 the width of the 360K drive. One more time: My problem/question has nothing to do with a 1.2MB drive. With a 386 computer configured for B: = 360KB, a disk formatted in B: seems fine with no error messages. BUT: running SCANDISK on said newly-formatted 360KB diskette results in an error message: "Media descriptor byte incorrect", and prompts for repair. The byte, before and after repair, is hex FD. Has anyone else experienced this problem? I have tried many disks in many drives with the exact same results. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From bmpete at swbell.net Sat Feb 14 20:03:10 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: IBM PC type 5150 In-Reply-To: <3.0.2.32.19980214163231.0068c068@mail.wincom.net> References: <3.0.2.32.19980214163231.0068c068@mail.wincom.net> Message-ID: <34e74c29.3027905@mail.swbell.net> On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:32:31 -0500, you said: > I just picked up two of these at a thrift shop, 2 floppies, cassette jack, >no hd. On the mounting plate of the floppy card is a female 37 contact 'D' >connector. Can any one tell me what this was for? For an external drive. The one I have in the garage is IBM# 4869 (360KB). I've seen a 720KB 3.5" version but don't know its' #. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Feb 14 20:28:00 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. Message-ID: <199802150228.AA01226@world.std.com> I've never HEARD of a disk exerciser. What on earth is one for? Pushups? Situps? manney From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sat Feb 14 20:38:28 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: IBM PC type 5150 Message-ID: <7746f109.34e65526@aol.com> In a message dated 98-02-14 21:03:44 EST, you write: << For an external drive. The one I have in the garage is IBM# 4869 (360KB). I've seen a 720KB 3.5" version but don't know its' #. >> the 4869 is the big external ps2 floppy drive, usually with a 360k drive hiding inside. am i correct any floppy controller with the external connector can run this drive? david From higginbo at netpath.net Sat Feb 14 20:56:47 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Disk Exerciser Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980214215640.006d5794@netpath.net> At 10:09 PM 2/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >I've never HEARD of a disk exerciser. > >What on earth is one for? Pushups? Situps? When I heard the description, I assumed it was a standalone box you could connect a floppy to, and test every function on the floppy, maybe use it as a burn-in test or something like that. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Feb 14 22:04:54 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Disk Exerciser In-Reply-To: <199802150229.SAA06407@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980214220454.1b1f6d0a@intellistar.net> It's used for testing the drive mechanism and also to position it to a particular track for use with the alignment disk. Joe At 10:09 PM 2/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >I've never HEARD of a disk exerciser. > >What on earth is one for? Pushups? Situps? > >manney > > From jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au Sat Feb 14 21:09:52 1998 From: jolminkh at c2.telstra-mm.net.au (Olminkhof) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: IBM PC-Junior Message-ID: <01bd39bf$2f153e20$6c3dc018@tp.c2.telstra-mm.net.au> > >Are modes 8,9,10 things like 320*200 in 16 colours? > >Remember the CGA monitor can display 16 colours (there are 4 TTL-level >digital input lines). The original CGA card didn't have enough memory (or >the right logic) to do anything more than 2 colours at 320*200, although >the monitor would have been capable of it. The PC-jr did have enough >memory for this. An old reference I have says: mode 8 is 160X200 16 colors mode 9 is 320X200 16 colors mode 10 is 640X200 4 colors My PC JX monitor has a 16 pin connector, same shape as a games port. Hans From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sat Feb 14 22:17:10 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Disk Exerciser In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980214215640.006d5794@netpath.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980214221710.1b1f3d5e@intellistar.net> At 09:56 PM 2/14/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 10:09 PM 2/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >>I've never HEARD of a disk exerciser. >> >>What on earth is one for? Pushups? Situps? > >When I heard the description, I assumed it was a standalone box you could >connect a floppy to, and test every function on the floppy, maybe use it as >a burn-in test or something like that. It could be used for that but I have always used them for testing and aligning drives. It only directly tests the positioning system not the read or write systems. However you can look at the data pattern with a scope if you use a formatted disk. In fact, that's exactly what you do when you align the heads. You use a specially formatted disk called an alignment disk and you position the drive heads to a location between two special tracks of data and you mechanically adjust the head so that both track siganls are equal. Joe From mallison at konnections.com Sat Feb 14 21:49:25 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: NCR Computer References: Message-ID: <34E665C5.621D@konnections.com> Don: That's both good and bad news at once. I was hoping it might prove to be a CPM intended machine and that one of the systems in the archive would power it. Bit of a dilemma... I'll probably pick it up and see what we can do. Also, would this have any type of bus? It's the same basic form factor as a PC so I assume there is room for card profiles (doesn't mean that's not just for the drive overhead). Whaddaya think? -Mike Don Maslin wrote: > > On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Mike Allison wrote: > > Probably is, as there is/was an NCR-5400 CP/M machine. It has DSDD 96tpi > drives, and if you are able to find a system disk for it, I'd appreciate > a copy to add to the archive. (I only have one for the Decisionmate V.) > > - don > From mallison at konnections.com Sat Feb 14 21:53:23 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: IBM PC type 5150 References: Message-ID: <34E666B3.4775@konnections.com> Tony Duell wrote: > > > I have a PC/XT on my desk here with 2 360K drives internally. It's > sitting on another box that contains the hard disks and also a pair of > 720K 3.5" drives which are connected to this socket. The cable is quite > easy to make. You take a standard PC floppy cable (with the twist) and > cut off the connector that goes to the controller. How are the hard drives controlled and how is that passed to the bus? -Mike I only ask because I have these cards but I've had to use scsi to add external HDs. From mallison at konnections.com Sat Feb 14 22:19:22 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: publishing notes/hints Message-ID: <34E66CC9.1FB4@konnections.com> Just a thought To Whom It Concerns: Since I'm a publisher with a pretty good set up here for both paper and electronic publishing. I'd like to offer anyone who desires such services as creation of PDF files, typesetting, editing or organizing any documents to contact me. I can usually do most straight forward things like create PDF from ascii text in a couple of minutes. Editing, formatting, whathave you, takes more time. I'm not interested in charging for this, unless you are trying to make some money on a project and need an editor/publisher. Regardless, I don't mind helping out. If you need a hand with anything, please contact me through the list or personally at: mallison@konnections.com We've started a web page for documents that's still in its infancy at: http://www.konnections.com/bebooks/catalog.htm Our goal is to put every living available document there... might be ambitious. I'll be happy to post documents there as a service if you need a place. Thanks, -Mike Allison From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Feb 14 17:31:50 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Another successful "shopping" stip to Temple Univ. Message-ID: <000301bd39a0$d5f07c60$54987c0a@office1> Hello, all... I went "shopping" at the Temple University Elephant Graveyard again this Friday. Here's what I got, and here's what's left: 1. Misc. boards: LA100 and LA180 logic boards, MDB DB-11, unknown Printronix board (has IM6402 processor, PCB# 104801-002 Rev A. What's that one for?) 2. M7269, M8256, M9312 3. DEC 60833 cable (console cable??) 4. software: DEC 3000 AXP MUP CD and manual (for the Alpha??) 5. IBM monochrome monitor 6. New RK05 filters and head cleaning kit 7. DB-11 and BA-11 manuals 8. PERTEC interface cable (Unibus to ??) 9. Kinetic Systems PDP-11 Crate Controller Model 3912-Z1E (what's this for?) 10. RK05 disk packs: Blank RK05 packs RT-11 System E (??) RT-11 Diagnostics RT-11 V3 SYS RK5 DISK 11/2/77 RT-11 V02C SOURCES 2/12/76 BASIC/RT-11 V01B 12/17/75 RSTS/E V6C RSXRMS LIB RK5 1/26/78 RSTS/E V7.0 RSX RTX LIB RK5 1979 11. IBM Fortran manual {no disks :-( } A quick look reveals that they have the following left (not including two documents/small parts rooms that I *still* have not been able to get to): many 11/23s, two or three 11/34s, many RL01/02 disk packs, several 6' and 4' racks, several ASR33s, boxes and boxes of uncategorized parts, terminals, VMS manuals, TK58 tape drive parts (should have taken them this trip, but didn't), BA23 cabinets, Cipher tape drives, 3 or 4 uVax-Is, several RX01/02 drives, RK05 drives, RL01/02 drives, other crap too numerous to mention. The guy there is taking a full inventory during spring break. Will post the inventory when available. Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From allisonp at world.std.com Sat Feb 14 23:32:50 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Disk Exerciser Message-ID: <199802150532.AA06700@world.std.com> <>When I heard the description, I assumed it was a standalone box you coul <>connect a floppy to, and test every function on the floppy, maybe use it <>a burn-in test or something like that. < < It could be used for that but I have always used them for testing and < 1. Misc. boards: LA100 and LA180 logic boards, MDB DB-11, unknown < Printronix board (has IM6402 processor, PCB# 104801-002 R Printronix, that is a UART(RCA6402). Allison From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sat Feb 14 18:51:39 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 324 References: <199802130802.AAA17201@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34E63C1B.3C53@goldrush.com> From: Joe Subject: Re: first bug was a myth >At 05:01 PM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >>> I seem to remember a certain species of cockroach that was quite fond of >>> wire insulation... >> >>I really doubt that, sincd cockroaches eat human food. (Termites, maybe?) > Hey, I live in Florida where the cockroach is the state insect! I can >tell you for a fact that they eat EVERYTHING! If you think they only eat >human food then it's obvious that you've never lived in an area that has >roaches! > I have seen cloth covered wires stripped bare by roaches! I remember reading a specific article on this very subject and it went as far as to identify the various insects and their favorite electronic unit's comound, I thought it was silver fish that went for insulation but I could be wrong... Anyone else ever heard of this article... (I pick up sooo much trivia I have a hard time remembering the source...) -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sat Feb 14 22:34:07 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: Atari 8-bit Find References: <199802140802.AAA05039@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34E67040.5908@goldrush.com> Yesterday after several long weeks of lackluster thrifing I came across a 'complete' Atari XE game system. (though I have been avoiding that Atari ST at the other thrift store for weeks as I just don't have the room for it and whatever else it may need.) Of course, as many thrift stores do, they broke up the system down into several 'parts' and I dutifully browsed through the store and re-collected it. (for those unfamiliar with thrift store procedure, they bag the computer as one item, the disks as another, the drive as yet another, the power supply seperate, cables separate also, etc.) Remember if you find a hint of something you are collecting at a thrift, look around for other components (i.e. if you find a Commodore IEEE-488 cable start looking for PET/B-128 drives, printers, computers, tapes, disks, manuals, etc.) Among the items I got: XE game unit (equiv to Atari 65XE) with keyboard & Power Pack SIO & TV cables 1030 Modem 1050 Drive & Power Supply Atari Light Gun Several Cartridge games (including Bug Hunt which uses the gun) 2 packages of assorted hand-labeled disks for the Atari Several packages of orignal games, (mostiy SSI combat simulations, but all with complete instructions and very good condition boxes) I passed on the Atari Sticks as I have better than the 'Atari standard joystick' to use with it. Everything seems to be working great (except for loose video and audio jacks, but that is easily fixed) Now I am finally able to really play with the Atari disk drive more as I found a wealth of disk-based software to experiment with (BASIC programs and ROM dumps). The only thing I didn't get was a power supply for the modem, if I can't find one around the house I know just where to get one for a couple bucks. Then I can start transferring some of the Atari stuff from the internet to Atari disk. People keep saying how great the Atari 8-bit was/is, but when it comes to interfacing on a base system it is pretty limited... You can't do much communication without an 850 or a modem (I know some of you are going to talk about APE or some other PC to atari converter, but I don't have a PC...) The Commodore 8-bits are WAY easier to interface/communicate to anything. Larry Anderson -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From william at ans.net Sun Feb 15 00:15:27 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:00 2005 Subject: LCD life In-Reply-To: <000301bd39a0$d5f07c60$54987c0a@office1> Message-ID: I was just thinking about future collectables like laptops, and I do have a question: Does anyone know how well LCDs hold up against time (provided, of course, that they are not cracked!)? William Donzelli william@ans.net From adam at merlin.net.au Sat Feb 14 01:19:14 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Memotech MTX500 Message-ID: <199802150618.QAA19433@arthur.merlin.net.au> Hi! Another lucky find - a Memotech MTX500 for $2. :) Beautiful computer - aluminium case, nice looking external power supply, and black. Unfortunatly it didn't come with any software or manuals. Does anyone have a spare manual, or a couple of spare cassettes for it? i would like to see what it was capable of. :) Thanks heaps, Adam. From william at ans.net Sun Feb 15 00:19:10 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: FS Early computer (fwd) Message-ID: Any interest? If so, deal with Rag directly... William Donzelli william@ans.net ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 14:18:38 +0100 From: Ragnar Otterstad To: William Donzelli Subject: Re: FS Early computer ---------- > nixi-tubes so I guess it qualifies for this reflector. > > > > > > Somebody collecting early computers ? I have a late 1970s desktop > > computer > > > made in Silicon Valley > > > with nixi display, a unique tape drive build in. > > Who made it, and what model is it? California technology International, Santa Clara, CA Model 1032A I could probably point you towards > someone that might want it (I belong to the ClassiComp list as well as > BA). > > William Donzelli > william@ans.net > From william at ans.net Sun Feb 15 00:26:05 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Convex C3200 computer (Melbourne) In-Reply-To: <199802130522.PAA03352@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: > >We have a huge Convex C3200 computer (it would have been termed > >a supercomputer when it was new). It's basically worthless to us. So it probably can be had for the right price! > What is it? Is it the sort of thing that desperatly needs saving? I > probably can't pick it up myself, as it is in the wrong state and I > suspect a car with a trailer may still have trouble bringing it back, but > I hope there is someone here from Melbourne or Sydney who can handle it. > :) A little research has shown that this beast may not be all that big - perhaps like a fat 6 foot rack. If so, a trailer could handle it. Those Convex machines are very nice looking, by the way - black and yellow. And even if it is a bit old, it could still beat the hell out of PeeCee in the performance department. In any case, someone please grab it. William Donzelli william@ans.net From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Feb 15 00:32:29 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Commie/Amiga compatibility Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980215012708.006ff4e0@netpath.net> Just came across an Amiga/Atari switchable mouse, and was wondering if it would also work on my C-64. Does anyone know if c-64 and amiga had the same pinouts for the joystick port? -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Feb 15 00:32:30 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: LCD life Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980215012932.007021cc@netpath.net> At 01:15 AM 2/15/98 -0500, you wrote: >Does anyone know how well LCDs hold up against time (provided, of course, >that they are not cracked!)? I had a Zenith Supersport XT laptop with CGA LCD in here a while back. Display looked fine to me. I've never heard of LCDs going bad like a monitor does. My LCD watch has been going strong for about the last 7 years, but I realize the design is alot simpler. -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From rcini at email.msn.com Sat Feb 14 14:00:05 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Apple //gs boot problem Message-ID: <000701bd3983$4aff8280$54987c0a@office1> I finally got a working SCSI card for my Apple //gs, but I now have a problem booting off of the hard drive. Here's the setup. CMS SCSI card to Miniscribe 20mb hard drive (old Mac SE drive). GS/OS 6.0.1 diskettes used to setup the hard drive. All files copied to hard drive with no errors; files are visible and runable from GS/OS. Turning off the machine and turning it back on produces a "Check startup device" error. Booting with the "no harddrive" GS/OS diskette works fine. All required files are on the hard drive. It's almost like a boot block is not written to the drive. For installation instructions, I culled info from Nathan Mate's Apple // web site. Any clues?? I installed GS/OS multiple times with the same results. Thanks! Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From donm at cts.com Sun Feb 15 01:03:06 1998 From: donm at cts.com (Don Maslin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: NCR Computer In-Reply-To: <34E665C5.621D@konnections.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Mike Allison wrote: > That's both good and bad news at once. I was hoping it might prove to > be a CPM intended machine and that one of the systems in the archive > would power it. Bit of a dilemma... I have the NCR Decisionmate V disk, but that is DSDD 48tpi. I could reformat it to 96tpi if you wanted to try it, but I have NO idea how similar the two machines may be! > I'll probably pick it up and see what we can do. > > Also, would this have any type of bus? It's the same basic form factor > as a PC so I assume there is room for card profiles (doesn't mean that's > not just for the drive overhead). I would be surprised if it had a bus. More likely the SBC kind of thing. > Whaddaya think? There is always the chance of getting a disk for it. - don donm@cts.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Don Maslin - Keeper of the Dina-SIG CP/M System Disk Archives Chairman, Dina-SIG of the San Diego Computer Society Clinging tenaciously to the trailing edge of technology. Sysop - Elephant's Graveyard (CP/M) - 619-454-8412 *--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--* see old system support at http://www.psyber.com/~tcj From yowza at yowza.com Sun Feb 15 02:16:55 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Yowza!) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: LCD life In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, William Donzelli wrote: > I was just thinking about future collectables like laptops, and I do have > a question: > > Does anyone know how well LCDs hold up against time (provided, of course, > that they are not cracked!)? LCDs, for the most part, are solid state devices which will last longer than any mechanical or tube device. Unfortunately, the same can't be said about the backlights, which are essentially guaranteed to fail eventually. Portables also make good collectibles because they tend to have the best technology of their time, are integrated, and don't take a lot of space! -- Doug From yowza at yowza.com Sun Feb 15 02:27:45 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Yowza!) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: GP-IB (was Re: Atari 8-bit Find) In-Reply-To: <34E67040.5908@goldrush.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Larry Anderson & Diane Hare wrote: > Remember if you find a hint of something you are collecting at a thrift, > look around for other components (i.e. if you find a Commodore IEEE-488 > cable start looking for PET/B-128 drives, printers, computers, tapes, > disks, manuals, etc.) Which reminds me: why didn't IEEE-488 ever become a big hit in the computer biz? It's been around since the 60's, is standard, has good performance, has IC support, can handle a bunch of devices, etc., but it became relagated to a niche of scientific instrument control for some reason. -- Doug From kyrrin2 at wizards.net Sun Feb 15 03:12:23 1998 From: kyrrin2 at wizards.net (Bruce Lane) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Freebies spoken for... Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980215011223.00e3a720@mail.wizards.net> Yes, that's right. Not more than four hours after I posted the availability of a slew of RL02 packs, a mini-rack, etc., in pops a message from CLASSICCMP's own Kevin McQuiggin (Thanks, Kevin!). He'll be coming down from Vancouver to get the stuff in the next week or so. All I can say is... geez, that was fast! ;-) Caveat emptor. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Bruce Lane, Sysop, The Dragon's Cave BBS (Fidonet 1:343/272) (Hamateur: WD6EOS) (E-mail: kyrrin2@wizards.net) http://www.wizards.net/technoid "Our science can only describe an object, event, or living thing in our own human terms. It cannot, in any way, define any of them..." From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Wed Feb 11 23:11:21 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Commie/Amiga compatibility In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19980215012708.006ff4e0@netpath.net> Message-ID: <199802151019.FAA15946@smtp.interlog.com> On 15 Feb 98 at 1:32, John Higginbotham wrote: > > Just came across an Amiga/Atari switchable mouse, and was wondering if it > would also work on my C-64. Does anyone know if c-64 and amiga had the same > pinouts for the joystick port? > > > -John Higginbotham- > -limbo.netpath.net- > No, it won't. One of my great disappointments. I've had it explained to me but I can't recall why. That's an Amiga-Atari 'ST' mouse. It wont work on an 8-bit atari neither ciao larry. lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From kroma at worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 15 07:26:06 1998 From: kroma at worldnet.att.net (kroma) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Apple //gs boot problem Message-ID: <01b201bd3a15$4a467e60$64f8430a@kroma-i> > Here's the setup. CMS SCSI card to Miniscribe 20mb hard drive (old Mac >SE drive). GS/OS 6.0.1 diskettes used to setup the hard drive. All files >copied to hard drive with no errors; files are visible and runable from >GS/OS. Turning off the machine and turning it back on produces a "Check >startup device" error. Booting with the "no harddrive" GS/OS diskette works >fine. All required files are on the hard drive. > Do you turn the HD on first and let it warm up for about 30 seconds, before you turn on the GS? -- Kirk From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Feb 15 09:07:23 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: LCD life Message-ID: <199802151507.AA13460@world.std.com> <>Does anyone know how well LCDs hold up against time (provided, of course <>that they are not cracked!)? There is no finite life assuming they havent been abused. My PX-8 is from around 85ish and still works great. I have a number of other small test gear that are older. Allison From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Feb 15 09:07:31 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: GP-IB (was Re: Atari 8-bit Find) Message-ID: <199802151507.AA13545@world.std.com> At 05:11 AM 2/12/98 +0000, you wrote: >No, it won't. One of my great disappointments. I've had it explained >to me but I can't recall why. That's an Amiga-Atari 'ST' mouse. >It wont work on an 8-bit atari neither Dang. So I'll have to buy an Amiga to use this mouse. (Yet another excuse to get another computer!) -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From SUPRDAVE at aol.com Sun Feb 15 10:00:54 1998 From: SUPRDAVE at aol.com (SUPRDAVE@aol.com) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: LCD life Message-ID: <2c4aad8f.34e71139@aol.com> In a message dated 2/15/98 2:15:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time, william@ans.net writes: << I was just thinking about future collectables like laptops, and I do have a question: Does anyone know how well LCDs hold up against time (provided, of course, that they are not cracked!)? >> the only thing i know that can happen to them is burned out pixels which is to be expected, and not really that noticeable unless there are several clumped together. david From jimw at agora.rdrop.com Sun Feb 15 11:02:31 1998 From: jimw at agora.rdrop.com (James Willing) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Disk Exerciser In-Reply-To: <199802150229.SAA06407@mxu1.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980215090231.007786ac@agora.rdrop.com> At 10:09 PM 2/13/98 -0500, you wrote: >I've never HEARD of a disk exerciser. > >What on earth is one for? Pushups? Situps? Briefly: a 'disk exerciser' is a stand-alone unit used in the testing/alignment of disk drives (either floppy or fixed/hard, depending on the unit). It allows you to test (exercise) basic functionalities of the drives (read/write/seek to track, etc.) without the use of a somputer and software. Particularly useful when trying to align drives, as many of the more 'intelligent' exerciser units have the 'standard' alignment track numbers pre-programmed. -jim --- jimw@agora.rdrop.com The Computer Garage - http://www.rdrop.com/~jimw Computer Garage Fax - (503) 646-0174 From agammuto at clark.net Sun Feb 15 11:32:58 1998 From: agammuto at clark.net (AP Gammuto) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Disk Exerciser Message-ID: <009301bd3a37$c2388c20$62008fa8@osmoid> Jim- Can you give me an update on the Sol 20? Thanks. A.P. Gammuto Maryland, USA www.konics.com From jpl15 at netcom.com Sun Feb 15 11:56:52 1998 From: jpl15 at netcom.com (John Lawson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: DEC disk test sets Message-ID: With all the discussion of disk exercisers, now might be an appropriate time to post this stuff. I have found a number of DEC and DEC-associated test sets. I have three in my possesion and will wait to see if there is any response to get the rest of the units. They seem to be in good shape, w/manuals and adapter cables. I cant really *test* any of them because I don't own any of the drives they are for. O well..... I have here field test boxes for: RK07/07 TB216A (CDC) (2 available) RM03/05 (3 available) Also there are: DEC TDR Analyzer Wilson Labs SX-530 Disk Memory Exerciser Information Storage Tech. 7330 DDU Tester Memorex 800 Disc Storage System Tester (7 of these available) Memorex Mecanical Alignment Kit Magnetic Peripherals Field Test Unit TB3A2A for RM0 series (3 avail) DEC RM06/07 Carriage alignment tool DEC RM02/3/5 Head Carriage tools (2 avail) Condition of the devices I have in hand appears to be good, the others have not been inspected by me personally, but the owner says they're all about the same. Prices on these units: (US) $50? $75? More? Less? I am in Southern California. These devices are all in 'Zero'-type cases.. shipping should not be a problem. e-mail jpl15@netcom.com Cheers John From higginbo at netpath.net Sun Feb 15 12:42:02 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: LCD life Message-ID: <3.0.32.19980215134013.006f722c@netpath.net> At 11:00 AM 2/15/98 EST, you wrote: >the only thing i know that can happen to them is burned out pixels which is to >be expected, and not really that noticeable unless there are several clumped >together. I thought all the pixels that would go bad do so during the assembly process. Do they go bad on their own over time? -John Higginbotham- -limbo.netpath.net- From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Feb 15 12:52:43 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Commie/Amiga compatibility In-Reply-To: <199802151019.FAA15946@smtp.interlog.com> References: <3.0.32.19980215012708.006ff4e0@netpath.net> Message-ID: >> Just came across an Amiga/Atari switchable mouse, and was wondering if it >> would also work on my C-64. Does anyone know if c-64 and amiga had the same >> pinouts for the joystick port? >> >> -John Higginbotham- >> -limbo.netpath.net- >> >No, it won't. One of my great disappointments. I've had it explained >to me but I can't recall why. That's an Amiga-Atari 'ST' mouse. >It wont work on an 8-bit atari neither > >ciao larry. >lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com That's interesting, I'd thought they would. The pinouts on the ports would appear to be the same, since they can share joysticks. However, it also makes since when you consider the fact that you've got to flip a switch to use the mouse in question on either the Amiga or Atari. My guess would be the computers expect different signals, despite the fact they're using the same pins. I seem to remember seening a picture of a C-64 mouse and it looked just like a Amiga mouse. If it's a "Wizard" mouse, it's a great mouse by the way, it looks and pretty much feels horrible though. I've got one on my A3000, despite having several Amiga mice scurrying about. I've not tried it on my Atari though, but I've been meaning to. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From dastar at wco.com Sun Feb 15 13:00:24 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. In-Reply-To: <34e646bc.1638687@mail.swbell.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, Barry Peterson wrote: > With a 386 computer configured for B: = 360KB, a disk formatted in B: > seems fine with no error messages. BUT: running SCANDISK on said > newly-formatted 360KB diskette results in an error message: "Media > descriptor byte incorrect", and prompts for repair. The byte, before > and after repair, is hex FD. Has anyone else experienced this problem? Barry, perhaps there is a problem with ScanDisk on 360K disks? If there is a problem, you would probably be able to find some information about it in Microsoft's knowledge base. Go to their FTP site (ftp.microsoft.com) and navigate from there. I'm sure Kai can supply a specific path. Anyway, once you get to it, there is an index file which has a summary for each knowledge base article. The summary in your case would be something like "Scandisk reports Media Descriptor Byte Incorrect". There would be an index key before it. This is what you would use to find the actual article. You would navigate a directory tree until you got to the directory where the file with the above information would be located. Good luck. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From dastar at wco.com Sun Feb 15 13:12:11 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Memotech MTX500 In-Reply-To: <199802150618.QAA19433@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Feb 1998, Adam Jenkins wrote: > Another lucky find - a Memotech MTX500 for $2. :) Beautiful computer - > aluminium case, nice looking external power supply, and black. Wouldn't that be MTX512? Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk Sun Feb 15 13:14:41 1998 From: ard at p850ug1.demon.co.uk (Tony Duell) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: What's a Xerox 83D? Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 2939 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980215/f21e58b1/attachment.ksh From foxnhare at goldrush.com Sun Feb 15 13:34:22 1998 From: foxnhare at goldrush.com (Larry Anderson & Diane Hare) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Commie/Amiga Mouse Compatibility References: <199802150802.AAA17816@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <34E7433F.296B@goldrush.com> I just hit the "quote button and had to wait several minutes for the digest to come up in the e-mail... Don't you hate when you do things like that... (:/) ----------------------------------------------------------- From: John Higginbotham Subject: Commie/Amiga compatibility > Just came across an Amiga/Atari switchable mouse, and was wondering if it > would also work on my C-64. Does anyone know if c-64 and amiga had the same > pinouts for the joystick port? > -John Higginbotham- > -limbo.netpath.net- Sorry but the mice are not compatible between the Amiga and the 64, the only pins that are the same are the joystick ones... You may want to check this site out: http://www.blackdown.org/~hwb/hwb.html This is the location for the Hardware Book, which lists a vast number of microcomputer pinouts as well as adapter wiring guides. ------------------------------------------------------------ -- -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) 754-1363 -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Feb 15 15:52:14 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. Message-ID: <199802152152.AA12830@world.std.com> <> seems fine with no error messages. BUT: running SCANDISK on said <> newly-formatted 360KB diskette results in an error message: "Media <> descriptor byte incorrect", and prompts for repair. The byte, before <> and after repair, is hex FD. Has anyone else experienced this problem? < from "Mike Allison" at Feb 14, 98 08:53:23 pm Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 992 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980215/f48adac4/attachment.ksh From dastar at wco.com Sun Feb 15 16:03:46 1998 From: dastar at wco.com (Sam Ismail) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: What's a Xerox 83D? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, Tony Duell wrote: > The machine is a Xerox 83D (or at least that's what it says on the > nameplate) - I can find no other markings on it, and it appears to be a > workstation of some sort. > > It's a brown plastic tower case, a little larger than a large PC tower. > It's _very_ modular. On the back there are 5 blanking plates the full > height of the cabinet, with 5 slots behind them. They contain, from the > left : > Any ideas as to what it is, and where to find a keyboard for it? I've seen one of these at a hamfest before. It's a unix workstation. I don't have anymore information for you though. Sam Alternate e-mail: dastar@siconic.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Computer Historian, Programmer, Musician, Philosopher, Athlete, Writer, Jackass Coming Soon...Vintage Computer Festival 2.0 See http://www.siconic.com/vcf for details! From allisonp at world.std.com Sun Feb 15 17:06:35 1998 From: allisonp at world.std.com (Allison J Parent) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Does NetBSD use the hardware clock differently? Message-ID: <199802152306.AA00683@world.std.com> In a message dated 2/15/98 1:42:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, higginbo@netpath.net writes: << I thought all the pixels that would go bad do so during the assembly process. Do they go bad on their own over time? -John Higginbotham- >> yes, on lcd displays such as what IBM thinkpads use, individual pixels can go bad. usually its not noticeable unless there is a solid colour on the screen and then you can usually see it. i had a thinkpad once and had maybe one or two burn out while i had it. like anything, they can go bad, but usually not very many and almost never several at once. david From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 15 19:30:45 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: CLASSICCMP digest 324 In-Reply-To: <34E63C1B.3C53@goldrush.com> References: <199802130802.AAA17201@lists2.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980215193045.467f1a96@intellistar.net> At 04:51 PM 2/14/98 -0800, you wrote: >From: Joe >Subject: Re: first bug was a myth > >>At 05:01 PM 2/11/98 -0500, you wrote: >>>> I seem to remember a certain species of cockroach that was quite fond of >>>> wire insulation... >>> >>>I really doubt that, sincd cockroaches eat human food. (Termites, maybe?) > >> Hey, I live in Florida where the cockroach is the state insect! I can >>tell you for a fact that they eat EVERYTHING! If you think they only eat >>human food then it's obvious that you've never lived in an area that has >>roaches! > >> I have seen cloth covered wires stripped bare by roaches! > > I remember reading a specific article on this very subject and it went >as far as to identify the various insects and their favorite electronic >unit's comound, I thought it was silver fish that went for insulation >but I could be wrong... Anyone else ever heard of this article... (I >pick up sooo much trivia I have a hard time remembering the source...) I've never heard of that article but if you ever find it, I'd love to read it. Around here, silverfish go for paper. Especially old books for some reason. You'll find them between the pages munching away and the roaches will be eating the covers off. > > >-- >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > Visit our web page at: http://www.goldrush.com/~foxnhare/ >Call our Commodore 64 BBS (Silicon Realms 300-2400 baud) at: (209) >754-1363 >-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- > > > From bmpete at swbell.net Sun Feb 15 18:38:51 1998 From: bmpete at swbell.net (Barry Peterson) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Disk problems/questions. In-Reply-To: <199802150228.AA01226@world.std.com> References: <199802150228.AA01226@world.std.com> Message-ID: <34e7896a.1656098@mail.swbell.net> On Sat, 14 Feb 1998 21:28:00 -0500, you said: > >I suspect the following: > >Disk controller board. It works the same way on another 386computer. >Corrupted format program. I've also used Xtree and Norton utilities. Same error message. >Corrupted scandisk program. My suspicion, or an existing bug. I'm using DOS version 6.22. >One test not mentioned (or i've forgotten) is do you get the same error >on a disk formatted on a DIFFERENT PC? Yes, I do, I just tried it. _______________ Barry Peterson bmpete@swbell.net Husband to Diane, Father to Doug, Grandfather to Zoe and Tegan. From adam at merlin.net.au Sat Feb 14 20:00:35 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Memotech MTX500 Message-ID: <199802160059.LAA13705@arthur.merlin.net.au> >> Another lucky find - a Memotech MTX500 for $2. :) Beautiful computer - >> aluminium case, nice looking external power supply, and black. > >Wouldn't that be MTX512? No. It seems that the 512 was the 64k version of the 500 - the 500 was 32k and thus slightly cheaper. Adam. From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Feb 15 18:44:42 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Free in Portland area DSSI drives Message-ID: I know someone with 4+ DEC DSSI drives, you haul them away. Contact me if interested. | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From manney at nwohio.com Sun Feb 15 16:10:22 1998 From: manney at nwohio.com (PG Manney) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: A Good Joe Message-ID: <199802160219.SAA02103@mxu4.u.washington.edu> I just concluded a swap with Joe Rigdon (rigdonj@intellistar.net) and wish to mention that he followed through with his end promptly and completely. It is a pleasure to trade with him, and other persons on the list may feel confident in doing so. P Manney (manney@nwohio.com) From rigdonj at intellistar.net Sun Feb 15 22:35:29 1998 From: rigdonj at intellistar.net (Joe) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: OOPs AT&Ts In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980214180614.425785a2@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.19980215223529.096f41ee@intellistar.net> The hamfest is finally over. Whew, am I glad to be home! I checked the AT&Ts closer. They're not 3B1s. They're 3B2s! Anybody know anything about them? I found a little info at the Obselete Computer museum at "http://s.ecc.engr.uky.edu/~morgan/3b2/3b2faq.html". BTW what is a DEC PA 90 disk drive? I turned one down. It's the biggest fixed disk I've ever seen! It makes a Seagate 506 look like a toy! Joe At 06:06 PM 2/14/98, you wrote: > I also bought two AT&T 3B1 computers without keyboards or monitors. Does >anyone know if the keyboard and monitor from a AT&T 6300 will work on them? > Or where I can find a monitor and keyboard? Also need any advice about >how to get these up and running. What are all the ports for? etc > > Joe > > From yowza at yowza.com Sun Feb 15 21:52:03 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Yowza!) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: LCD life In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/15/98 1:42:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, > higginbo@netpath.net writes: > > << > I thought all the pixels that would go bad do so during the assembly > process. Do they go bad on their own over time? > > -John Higginbotham- >> > > yes, on lcd displays such as what IBM thinkpads use, individual pixels can go > bad. usually its not noticeable unless there is a solid colour on the screen > and then you can usually see it. i had a thinkpad once and had maybe one or > two burn out while i had it. like anything, they can go bad, but usually not > very many and almost never several at once. It sounds like you've got an active matrix (TFT) display. TFTs have one transistor per pixel, so you can see single points of failure like you've described. Other types of laptop displays (passive matrix LCD, gas plasma, and electroluminescent) address pixels by applying voltage at some (x,y) using a single x control and a single y control (OK, sometimes there are two or more independent panels to speed up the process). So, a failure will either result in an entire row of dead pixels, or somethimes an entire panel. -- Doug From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sun Feb 15 17:10:24 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: LCD life In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <199802160404.XAA29555@mail.cgocable.net> > On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 SUPRDAVE@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 2/15/98 1:42:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, > > higginbo@netpath.net writes: > > > > << > > I thought all the pixels that would go bad do so during the assembly > > process. Do they go bad on their own over time? > > > > -John Higginbotham- >> > > > > yes, on lcd displays such as what IBM thinkpads use, individual pixels can go > > bad. usually its not noticeable unless there is a solid colour on the screen > > and then you can usually see it. i had a thinkpad once and had maybe one or > > two burn out while i had it. like anything, they can go bad, but usually not > > very many and almost never several at once. > > It sounds like you've got an active matrix (TFT) display. TFTs have one > transistor per pixel, so you can see single points of failure like you've > described. Other types of laptop displays (passive matrix LCD, gas > plasma, and electroluminescent) address pixels by applying voltage at some > (x,y) using a single x control and a single y control (OK, sometimes > there are two or more independent panels to speed up the process). So, a > failure will either result in an entire row of dead pixels, or somethimes > an entire panel. > > -- Doug Not always to TFT, I have a compaq SLT 386s/20 with a one dead pixel stuck in off state, this is just simple LCD display. About lamps, yeah, fluorsecent tubes or EL in anything do burn out from age. But those tubes are easily replaceable in any case when you KNOW where to get one. Simply by length, diameter and type of coating. But I would take TFT either mono or color any day. :) Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From jpero at cgo.wave.ca Sun Feb 15 17:11:41 1998 From: jpero at cgo.wave.ca (jpero@cgo.wave.ca) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: OOPs AT&Ts In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19980215223529.096f41ee@intellistar.net> References: <3.0.1.16.19980214180614.425785a2@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <199802160405.XAA29853@mail.cgocable.net> Snip! > > BTW what is a DEC PA 90 disk drive? I turned one down. It's the > biggest fixed disk I've ever seen! It makes a Seagate 506 look like a toy! > > Joe Joe, What's up on the PS/2 machines as well? :) Jason D. email: jpero@cgo.wave.ca Pero, Jason D. From william at ans.net Sun Feb 15 22:14:18 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: LCD life In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > LCDs, for the most part, are solid state devices which will last longer > than any mechanical or tube device. Yes, very true (although a good CRT will last a VERY long time). I am basically curious about any long term chemistry that might occur. I can see the rubber contacts on most LCDs failing in time, but they could be replaced. What about the actual "liquid"? > Unfortunately, the same can't be said > about the backlights, which are essentially guaranteed to fail eventually. Yes, EL panels have half-lives, just like radioactive isotopes. About the only backlight that will not fail are the woven fibre optic sheets, but they are very expensive, and probably not used on anyone's laptop. William Donzelli william@ans.net From healyzh at ix.netcom.com Sun Feb 15 22:13:48 1998 From: healyzh at ix.netcom.com (Zane H. Healy) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Two drives on a Emulex? How? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've got a Emulex controller in my MicroVAX II, I'm trying to attach a second hard drive to it, and got what looks to me the necessary cable today. I think my problem is with the "Write Protect"/"Ready" switches thing. I've got one that is for the Emulex, the rest I've got are DEC, it appears the controller can handle two drives, and I'm suspecting that in order to it needs two of these switch things. I tried pluging one of the DEC switches into the cable and it wouldn't work, that's when I noticed the Emulex switch has a row of DIP switches on it. Do I need to just flip some DIP switches, to add a second drive to the controller, or what. If anyone can tell me what these switches mean I'd appreciate it. Zane | Zane H. Healy | UNIX Systems Adminstrator | | healyzh@ix.netcom.com (primary) | Linux Enthusiast | | healyzh@holonet.net (alternate) | Classic Computer Collector | +----------------------------------+----------------------------+ | For Empire of the Petal Throne and Traveller Role Playing, | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/ | | For the collecting of Classic Computers with info on them. | | see http://www.dragonfire.net/~healyzh/museum.html | From mallison at konnections.com Sun Feb 15 23:55:42 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: OOPs AT&Ts References: <3.0.1.16.19980215223529.096f41ee@intellistar.net> Message-ID: <34E7D4DE.2B9E@konnections.com> Joe: 3b2 might be even better. They were going for 300 to 1500 back in '90 when I was messing with them A good page (with pics and some data) is: http://www.ncsc.dni.us/fun/user/tcc/cmuseum/att3b2.htm I can't seem to get to any of the referenced faq pages. -Mike Joe wrote: > > The hamfest is finally over. Whew, am I glad to be home! I checked the > AT&Ts closer. They're not 3B1s. They're 3B2s! Anybody know anything about > them? I found a little info at the Obselete Computer museum at > "http://s.ecc.engr.uky.edu/~morgan/3b2/3b2faq.html". > > From yowza at yowza.com Sun Feb 15 23:54:49 1998 From: yowza at yowza.com (Yowza!) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: LCD life In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 1998, William Donzelli wrote: > Yes, very true (although a good CRT will last a VERY long time). I am > basically curious about any long term chemistry that might occur. I can > see the rubber contacts on most LCDs failing in time, but they could be > replaced. What about the actual "liquid"? That's a good question. I don't think there's any liquid in the sense of some chemical suspended in some solvent. I think "liquid crystal" refers to the interesting property of a certain class of compounds which can exist in both an amorphous liquid state as well as a crystaline state (e.g., in the presense of heat or electricity). I remember playing with sheets of the stuff when I was a kid (around the time liquid crystal "mood rings" were in vogue), but I have no idea which compounds are used in LCD displays. Some inert polymer, I'd guess. -- Doug From shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca Mon Feb 16 00:05:00 1998 From: shoppa at alph02.triumf.ca (Tim Shoppa) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Two drives on a Emulex? How? In-Reply-To: from "Zane H. Healy" at Feb 15, 98 08:13:48 pm Message-ID: <9802160605.AA07805@alph02.triumf.ca> A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text Size: 1138 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://www.classiccmp.org/pipermail/cctalk/attachments/19980215/d6adda75/attachment.ksh From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Mon Feb 16 00:10:28 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Convex C3200 computer (Melbourne) In-Reply-To: <199802130522.PAA03352@arthur.merlin.net.au> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980216171028.00aee100@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> At 03:53 PM 12-02-98 +0930, Adam Jenkins wrote: > >Spotted this message today - I imagine that they don't appear too often. >:) > >>We have a huge Convex C3200 computer (it would have been termed >>a supercomputer when it was new). It's basically worthless to us. >> >>Best offer thanks, and you pay for the transport. It weighs lots. >> >>It has 4 IPI disk drives, a DLT tape unit (x4) a versatec VME plotter >>plus, the all time favorite, one of those reel to reel tape units. >>(Storage tec 90, 2920 model). > >What is it? Is it the sort of thing that desperatly needs saving? I >probably can't pick it up myself, as it is in the wrong state and I >suspect a car with a trailer may still have trouble bringing it back, but >I hope there is someone here from Melbourne or Sydney who can handle it. Let's see - it's not that small (about the size of a VAX-11/780 although a little taller) but the best feature is the colours - gold tops over black. I know of at least one other C3200 in Melbourne but it's not a runner. I suspect that it'll be a three phase system (all that ECL to power). Worth saving - yes as there aren't that many in the world. If I hadn't filled up the computer room at work with necessary systems I'd try to find space for it but my boss is looking at some of the space I currently use to house a MicroVAX or three for new systems we've purchased.... Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfas keep me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au Mon Feb 16 00:22:39 1998 From: H.Davies at latrobe.edu.au (Huw Davies) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Convex C3200 In-Reply-To: <34E62720.447F@konnections.com> References: <01bd3965$e4380a80$6c62bcc1@hotze> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980216172239.00b0aad0@lucifer.its.latrobe.edu.au> OK, I got it wrong (I'll blame the pain killers but it's more likely either old age or alcohol poisoning :-) The Convex 3200 is not ECL but GaAs based - guaranteed to need at least four phase :-) There's a little photo of a small system showing off the paint scheme at http://maruja.convex.es/CONVEX/info/c-series.html and more information regarding performance at http://nhse.npac.syr.edu/hpccsurvey/orgs/convex/convex.html Huw Davies | e-mail: Huw.Davies@latrobe.edu.au Information Technology Services | Phone: +61 3 9479 1550 Fax: +61 3 9479 1999 La Trobe University | "My Alfas keep me poor in a monetary Melbourne Australia 3083 | sense, but rich in so many other ways" From adavie at mad.scientist.com Mon Feb 16 01:30:08 1998 From: adavie at mad.scientist.com (Andrew Davie) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: BBC Model B - video help Message-ID: <01bd3aac$b581a3c0$13f438cb@nostromo> No, we're talking rock-steady picture, but garbled If the cursor is at the bottom 1/2 of the (logical) screen, you NEVER see what you're typing If its at the top half, you see about 20x what you're typing. Its definitely not a TV adjustment problem. Thanks, though! Andrew >Hi Andrew: >Here is what I would look for and try to adjust --- Horizontal >frequency. >This sounds like it is some multiple of the desired (for the monitor) >rate. That's what's getting the multiple images across the width of the >screen. >Also (maybe first, but definitely in conjunction with the above) look >for 'Vertical' frequency/lock. This one is what is getting you multiple >images in the vertical direction. Memory says that the adjustment is >"roll down (image) and just return the adjustment the other direction >till it locks in place." >The 'horizontal lock' is a much courser adjustment. > >(This is all standard TV/Monitor adjustment stuff. If anyone has any >specific advice different from this, by all means, give it a try.) From spc at armigeron.com Mon Feb 16 01:37:01 1998 From: spc at armigeron.com (Captain Napalm) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: What's a Xerox 83D? In-Reply-To: from "Tony Duell" at Feb 15, 98 07:14:41 pm Message-ID: <199802160737.CAA18517@armigeron.com> It was thus said that the Great Tony Duell once stated: > > The machine is a Xerox 83D (or at least that's what it says on the > nameplate) - I can find no other markings on it, and it appears to be a > workstation of some sort. > > It's a brown plastic tower case, a little larger than a large PC tower. > It's _very_ modular. On the back there are 5 blanking plates the full > height of the cabinet, with 5 slots behind them. They contain, from the > left : This sounds very much like the machine sitting next to me, which has no markings of any type to show what it is. Unfortunately, the monitor doesn't work and I'm missing the adapter for the harddrive. Other than that, I do have all the parts. > Slot C2 is empty. Module C2 contains many small chips (41257Ps (memory?), much 74 series and one large gate array. Maybe just a memory board? > To the right of the cardcage there's a plastic door that folds down. Ah, the door must have fallen off of mine. > Behind it are 2 more modules - C6 is the power supply (which goes through > to the front of the case, and also carries the power switch), while C7 > is the hard disk. That's a standard 20Mbyte Seagate ST506-like unit (an > ST225 or something) on a bracket. And I'm missing the bracket. > The monitor is monochrome, and about 17". It connects to the display > connector on module C1 and also to the keyboard connector on C4. There's > a 5 pin DIN socket on the base of the monitor for the keyboard (which I > don't have). There's also a beeper in the monitor base. Well, my monitor doesn't work, but I do have the mouse and keyboard. > I've also got 2 modules that seem to stack on top of the unit, and > connect to the 'floppy' connector. One contains a 5.25" floppy drive (no > idea as to the density, etc). The other contains a QIC tape drive, which > seems to have a floppy interface. I can provide module numbers of the > mecahnisms if it would help. And I have a floppy unit external as well. > Any ideas as to what it is, and where to find a keyboard for it? Any ideas as to where we can get more information would be good too. -spc (In South Florida if that makes any difference ... ) From adam at merlin.net.au Sun Feb 15 05:53:11 1998 From: adam at merlin.net.au (Adam Jenkins) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Convex C3200 computer (Melbourne) Message-ID: <199802161052.VAA05274@arthur.merlin.net.au> >> >We have a huge Convex C3200 computer (it would have been termed >> >a supercomputer when it was new). It's basically worthless to us. > >So it probably can be had for the right price! Apparantly so. They have had tow offers for it - $200 from some scrap metal dealers, and a couple of cartons of beer from me. Apparantly mine is the best offer. >Those Convex machines are very nice looking, by the way - black and >yellow. And even if it is a bit old, it could still beat the hell out of >PeeCee in the performance department. That's the bit which sold me - I have a thing for black computers. :) >In any case, someone please grab it. It looks like I might be doing so after all. Any idea about what I could do with such a beast? I know that it would be wasted on me - I would be unable to push it at all - but I will keep it until someone who can really use it shows up, and I might as well see if I can put it to some use in the meantime. I gather it runs unix, so could I use it as an internet server for some rather high-demand applications? It seems a bit sad to accept the computer when I can't really use it, but I would much rather that than to see it scrapped. Adam. From lwalker at mail.interlog.com Thu Feb 12 01:00:11 1998 From: lwalker at mail.interlog.com (Lawrence Walker) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: What's a Xerox 83D? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199802161207.HAA09156@smtp.interlog.com> On 15 Feb 98 at 19:14, Tony Duell wrote: > I went to a radio rally (hamfest today), and I got a machine that I know > nothing about :-). The other stuff I got isn't really appropriate for > this list. > > Anyway.... > > The machine is a Xerox 83D (or at least that's what it says on the > nameplate) - I can find no other markings on it, and it appears to be a > workstation of some sort. > > It's a brown plastic tower case, a little larger than a large PC tower. > It's _very_ modular. On the back there are 5 blanking plates the full > height of the cabinet, with 5 slots behind them. They contain, from the > left : > > Module C1 - DCM (Display Control/Memory?). This board contains 1Mbyte of > parity memory, some TTL chips to support it, 18 off MB8266 (video > memory?), 3 gate arrays (no idea), and 2 xtal oscillators. There's a 15 > pin D connector on the bracket that's labelled 'Display' > > Slot C2 is empty. > > Module C3 - MPB (Main Processor Board?). There's 4 off 7C901's > (high-speed 2901 bit-slice ALUs), 12 MB8168s (control store RAM?), 2 more > gate arrays (sequencer and something else?), 4 off AM9122 (register > RAM?), some TTL glue, a 32MHz clock can, an 8254 counter/timer chip (!), > sockets for more control store RAM, etc. On there bracket there's a > DC37-P connector marked 'Bus Expansion' that seems to be linked to more > empy sockets - probably for buffers. > > Module C4 - IOP (Input/Output Processor?). This one is full of random > chips. There's an 80186 CPU, some EPROM, an 82586 ethernet chip, an 8272 > disk controller, an 8251 USART (keyboard port?), 3 off 8259 interrupt > chips, a hard disk controller based on the 8X305 controller, a lot of > TTL/buffers, etc. There's 5 connectors on the bracket - from the top : > DA15-S 'ethernet', DC37-S 'floppy', DE9-S 'keyboard', and 2 DB25-S RS232 > ports (Comm and Printer). > > Module C5 contains a smaller PCB called an LPO (Laser? Line? Printer > Output?). It's fot a few TTL chips and PALs on it, and a single DC37-S > connector marked 'printer'. > > To the right of the cardcage there's a plastic door that folds down. > Behind it are 2 more modules - C6 is the power supply (which goes through > to the front of the case, and also carries the power switch), while C7 > is the hard disk. That's a standard 20Mbyte Seagate ST506-like unit (an > ST225 or something) on a bracket. > > The monitor is monochrome, and about 17". It connects to the display > connector on module C1 and also to the keyboard connector on C4. There's > a 5 pin DIN socket on the base of the monitor for the keyboard (which I > don't have). There's also a beeper in the monitor base. > > I've also got 2 modules that seem to stack on top of the unit, and > connect to the 'floppy' connector. One contains a 5.25" floppy drive (no > idea as to the density, etc). The other contains a QIC tape drive, which > seems to have a floppy interface. I can provide module numbers of the > mecahnisms if it would help. > > Any ideas as to what it is, and where to find a keyboard for it? > > -tony > > And I thought I had problems trying to get this TRS-80 model II with 8' disks working. :^)) Damnnnn. ! Is confronting the problems one of the allures of collecting old mchns. ?? ciao larry lwalkerN0spaM@interlog.com From kevan at heydon.org Mon Feb 16 07:59:42 1998 From: kevan at heydon.org (kevan@heydon.org) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: What's a Xerox 83D? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <199802161359.NAA18988@mailgate.motiv.co.uk> In message you write: > I went to a radio rally (hamfest today), and I got a machine that I know > nothing about :-). The other stuff I got isn't really appropriate for > this list. ... > Any ideas as to what it is, and where to find a keyboard for it? It sounds like, (and looked like... I was at the same rally) a 6085. I am getting the "Product Support Supplement" tonight so I may be able to help a bit more after that. I also have one of these waiting to join my collection as soon as I find room for it. -- Kevan Old Computer Collector: http://www.heydon.org/kevan/collection/ From mopar+ at pitt.edu Mon Feb 16 08:21:56 1998 From: mopar+ at pitt.edu (Jerome Marella) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: MORE Freebies! Come and get 'em! In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.19980214161930.00e39e60@mail.wizards.net> References: <3.0.3.32.19980214161930.00e39e60@mail.wizards.net> Message-ID: Why are you guys always so far away..... Oh well... It would have been nice to pick up. It'd be a loooong drive from Pittsburgh :) Jerome -- Jerome A. Marella University of Pittsburgh - CIS Systems & Networks 600 Epsilon Drive, Pittsburgh, PA 15238 mopar+@pitt.edu (412) 624-9139 Fax (412) 624-6436 http://www.pitt.edu/~mopar From rcini at email.msn.com Mon Feb 16 08:29:40 1998 From: rcini at email.msn.com (Richard A. Cini) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:01 2005 Subject: Apple //gs boot problem Message-ID: <001701bd3ae7$c7021220$54987c0a@office1> On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 08:26:06 -0500, "kroma" wrote: >>Do you turn the HD on first and let it warm up for about 30 seconds, before >>you turn on the GS? Turned-on, yes. Warmed-up for 30s, no. The drive did finish it's power-on sequence and came to a rest, though, which happens in less than 30s. Does the GS/OS use a special boot block like the MS-DOS boot sector, or does it just look for the ProDOS file? Rich Cini/WUGNET (remove nospam_ to use) ClubWin! Charter Member (6) MCP Windows 95/Windows Networking ============================================ From jfoust at threedee.com Mon Feb 16 10:27:01 1998 From: jfoust at threedee.com (John Foust) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:02 2005 Subject: disk equals license (soon: horse flogging) Message-ID: <3.0.1.32.19980216102701.00b4c450@pc> Roger Merchberger wrote: >You're both right, in a way. >John H.: Chuck the disks, give up license. Yup. >John F.: The upgrade disks require a license to previous software -- you >now essentially have two linked licenses >Is the license bound to *all* of the media? To me, the problem is with the person who finds the software in the dumpster and assumes that equals a license. It's not. The original owner might've even been told by Autodesk to destroy their old media. I can't see why the license owner shouldn't be free to do that, and although I love to read the fine print, I do not recall ever seeing language to that effect. To argue otherwise would only encourage rampant pack-rat-ism. Of course, members of this mailing list don't need an extra dose of that. :-) "James L. Rice" wrote: >AutoDesk requires you to trade the original disks from the previous >version at the dealer to order the upgrade. I think they did once upon a time. Today they tend to use dongles to protect software, so there's no way to use dumpster software as-is. Uncle Roger wrote: >Now, let's say, we've both upgraded, and I give him back his original >disks. Am I now a pirate? Was I a pirate before? Or was he the pirate >before? It can depend on the company policy. Some companies are happy to take money from anyone - legit owner or not - when it comes to upgrades. Others are more careful about tracking serial numbers and might not allow the upgrade. - John Jefferson Computer Museum From mtapley at swri.edu Mon Feb 16 10:29:41 1998 From: mtapley at swri.edu (Mark Tapley) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:02 2005 Subject: LCD life In-Reply-To: <199802160802.AAA28209@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: All, This discussion got me thinking (uh oh... Danger, Will Robinson!)...is there any point to having a screen saver on a machine with an LCD display? That is, is there any advantage to having the LCD pixels all black (or black with a distraction running around the screen) as opposed to steady, showing the last thing you did? - Mark From william at ans.net Mon Feb 16 10:39:45 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:02 2005 Subject: LCD life In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > This discussion got me thinking (uh oh... Danger, Will > Robinson!)...is there any point to having a screen saver on a machine with > an LCD display? That is, is there any advantage to having the LCD pixels > all black (or black with a distraction running around the screen) as > opposed to steady, showing the last thing you did? There really is no point to screen savers in general. The phosphors in modern CRTs are far more burn proof than those of old. You can still burn them, but you really have to be very abusive to the tube. William Donzelli william@ans.net From maxeskin at hotmail.com Mon Feb 16 10:52:52 1998 From: maxeskin at hotmail.com (Max Eskin) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:02 2005 Subject: System/34 contd. Message-ID: <19980216165252.8631.qmail@hotmail.com> >Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 14:04:14 -0800 >Reply-To: classiccmp@u.washington.edu >From: "Daniel A. Seagraves" >To: "Discussion re-collecting of classic computers" >Subject: Re: System/34 contd. > >[loss of manuals....] > >That's OK, I have most of the manuals. Anything specific? >I can't let them go, they're only copies, but I can post anything specific you may be needing... I doubt I will be using the thing because it needs a 220-volt plug, which there are at my school, but noone would let me put it in their room. There isn't any space in my apartment either :). Could I somehow wire to 110-volt plugs to get 220? If there is some kind of "getting started" thing, photocopies would be fun, just to look at... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com From higginbo at netpath.net Mon Feb 16 11:04:00 1998 From: higginbo at netpath.net (John Higginbotham) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:02 2005 Subject: LCD life In-Reply-To: References: <199802160802.AAA28209@lists3.u.washington.edu> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.19980216120400.007f1c30@netpath.net> At 10:29 AM 2/16/98 -0600, you wrote: >All, > This discussion got me thinking (uh oh... Danger, Will >Robinson!)...is there any point to having a screen saver on a machine with >an LCD display? That is, is there any advantage to having the LCD pixels >all black (or black with a distraction running around the screen) as >opposed to steady, showing the last thing you did? Of course there's a point: It makes the machine look really cool when you're not actually working on it. :) - John Higginbotham - limbo.netpath.net From "cad at " at gamewood.net Mon Feb 16 11:07:36 1998 From: "cad at " at gamewood.net (Charles A. Davis) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:02 2005 Subject: BBC Model B - video help References: <01bd3aac$b581a3c0$13f438cb@nostromo> Message-ID: <199802161713.MAA07875@fox.gamewood.net> Andrew Davie wrote: > > No, we're talking rock-steady picture, but garbled > If the cursor is at the bottom 1/2 of the (logical) screen, you NEVER see > what you're typing > If its at the top half, you see about 20x what you're typing. > Its definitely not a TV adjustment problem. > Thanks, though! > Andrew > > >Hi Andrew: > >Here is what I would look for and try to adjust --- Horizontal > >frequency. > >This sounds like it is some multiple of the desired (for the monitor) > >rate. That's what's getting the multiple images across the width of the > >screen. > >Also (maybe first, but definitely in conjunction with the above) look > >for 'Vertical' frequency/lock. This one is what is getting you multiple > >images in the vertical direction. Memory says that the adjustment is > >"roll down (image) and just return the adjustment the other direction > >till it locks in place." > >The 'horizontal lock' is a much courser adjustment. > > > >(This is all standard TV/Monitor adjustment stuff. If anyone has any > >specific advice different from this, by all means, give it a try.) Hi Andrew: The display 'seeming' to be "rock steady", doesn't prohibit the sweep frequencies being wrong by a 'multiple' of what they should be. Find the adjustments, mark where they are at for now, and try some adjustments. If it doesn't help, then back to where they were and your no worse off. Chuck -- ----------------------------------------------------------- He, who will not reason, is a bigot; William Drumond, he, who cannot, is a fool; Scottish writer and he, who dares not, is a slave. (1585-1649) While he that does, is a free man! Joseph P. 1955- ----------------------------------------------------------- (be sure to correct the return address when using 'reply') Chuck Davis / Sutherlin Industries FAX # (804) 799-0940 1973 Reeves Mill Road E-Mail -- cad@gamewood.net Sutherlin, Virginia 24594 Voice # (804) 799-5803 From mallison at konnections.com Mon Feb 16 11:27:27 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:02 2005 Subject: disk equals license (soon: horse flogging) References: <3.0.1.32.19980216102701.00b4c450@pc> Message-ID: <34E876FF.3C15@konnections.com> You know: I always thought Borland explained it best. Software license is like a book. Only one person can read it at a time, only one person can own it at a time. Imagine that the upgrade is part of those original disks, whether you need the disks or not. Therefore, you can't be sure, by finding the software, that the invisible license for that software isn't still functioning somewhere. In other words, you can't know that by having the disks, you indeed have the license. While I would never argue (because I do it too) that if you "find" an original set of disks you're hurting anyone by using them. I'm sure you'd probably win a court case. But I don't think it's right -- morally, ethically, mathematically -- to try to turn that into an upgrade. There is a big difference between buying an old version for $1.00 and buying an upgrade and finding disks in the trash and buying an upgrade. All the other options, including calling and asking the company are viable. The idea is to let the people who truely own the rights to that upgrade decide. -Mike John Foust wrote: > > Roger Merchberger wrote: > >You're both right, in a way. > >John H.: Chuck the disks, give up license. Yup. > >John F.: The upgrade disks require a license to previous software -- you > >now essentially have two linked licenses > >Is the license bound to *all* of the media? > From Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk Mon Feb 16 11:33:27 1998 From: Philip.Belben at powertech.co.uk (Philip.Belben@powertech.co.uk) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:02 2005 Subject: 9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts Message-ID: <9801168876.AA887679734@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Sorry to take so long replying - I have been away for a week doing various things (Job interview, visit parents, fail to mend car, etc.). One of the advantages of being away is that a couple of dozen messages after a question I think I could answer, somebody else answers it for me! Far less typing to do! > Certainly more _fun_ than some of the films that have been released for > sure! The wife will not agree though. But if one of us had a large old > S/360 or S/370 in our basements, the power consumption would financially > kill us (because of the water chillers for cooling, current consumption > of older technology electronics, etc.) I'd love to even _see_ a large > S/360 and all its utilities. Possibly. But I'm not convinced. I seem to remember the biggest IBM 3090 system drew about 250kW (I'll have to look that up too!). I imagine a typical system might draw perhaps 50kW. The biggest problem with this is the supply to your house - few can manage more than 25kW. At 8c per kWh, 50kW is $4 per hour - cheap enough to run for an evening a month, say. > Only one 8 Meg board installed. Maximum, IIRC, was 16 Mb storage. DASD was > probably used as workstation storage. Philip, can you confirm any of this > from your sales literature? If you're interested, William, I can give you > the lineup of PC board modules in the CPU which I briefly talked about > earlier in the thread. 9373 (9370 model 20) was 4 MB expandable to 16 MB; all the others were 8MB, expandable to 16 MB. However, only the 9377 (model 90) had a 64-bit data path; all the others were 32 bit, so I suspect the 4 meg card would work in the 9375. But there's no knowing, with IBM. I see on this page there is a comparison "not fully verified by IBM" by an outside agency, comparing 370 machines with Vaxen. A 9373 is slower than a microvax II; a 9377, rather faster than a Vax 8650, reaching nearly 0.8 Mflop. The 4381 - another low(ish) end 370 - had three models listed, up to around 1.2 Mflop for the model 13. (At least IBM didn't try and claim twice this for the model 14, which is two 13s back-to-back). Philip From archive at navix.net Mon Feb 16 12:51:37 1998 From: archive at navix.net (Cord Coslor) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:02 2005 Subject: Epson HX-40 ??? Message-ID: <34E88AB7.C4AF29DC@navix.net> Greets: This weekend I had a great run of the swap meets, etc., in Wichita, Kansas and came home with about 50 different machines, tons of software, etc., etc. Anyway, there are two specific machines I would like to ask about now, I will post further questions on several others in the future. First, I picked up an Epson HX-40 laptop-sized computer. On the front it says MagicBox above the LCD screen. On the back there is a battery bay as well as a rom chip bay, and it says Epson HX-40 Model # H401A. I understand this machines runs off of program-specific rom chips. It has a chip in the slot under the trap-door, and when I boot it, it comes up to a pharmacetical company inventory, order, etc., menu. The machines runs off of 4 AA batteries or a AC adapter. It really is a cute machine, but I want to know more. In searching the web, I find 1 measly reference to this machine... yes, 1 (or two), neither of which give any info. on this machine. It is listed on a guys resume as having experience in working with it. I do find a lot of information on the well-known Epson HX-20 --- known as the 1st laptop computer. In finding pictures of that, this one looks really similar. This one has ports labeled BCP and one labeled SP on one side, and on the back is the cassette, seriel, and RS-232C, printer, and power adaptor ports. There is also a 50-pin port on the opposite side with no label. I guess what I am wondering is if any of you have some more information on this little guy? No year can be found on it, but I suspect early 1980s. Does anyone have any other 'chips' for it to insert other software into memory. Are these units rare? Please let me know any information. If you're interested in it let me know that to. Next, I am curious about a Data General One laptop computer I picked up. Specifically, I need to know what type of power supply it takes, as I can't find that information anywhere. It says it is ms-dos based, but I am wondering what dos would run on it. It has 2 3.5" disk drives (Epson drives), and I am curious as to if it had a hard drive? It has a full-screen, I would suppose monochrome? Could it display graphics, etc.? Also, when was it made? *any* information on the above two items most certainly are welcome, and would be quite appreciated. Please let me know if you are interested in getting either one of these as well. I will post some more very unique items in the next couple of days that I was lucky enough to get my grubby little hands on.... Thanks in advance, CORD COSLOR -- ___________________________________________________ | Cord G. Coslor : archive@navix.net |\ | Deanna S. Wynn : deannasue@navix.net | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Vista/4395 | | |---------------------------------------------------| | | PO Box 308 - Peru, NE - 68421 - (402) 872- 3272 | | |___________________________________________________| | \____________________________________________________\| From william at ans.net Mon Feb 16 11:46:57 1998 From: william at ans.net (William Donzelli) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:02 2005 Subject: 9370 is a dog! Was: Re: Re[2]: Firsts In-Reply-To: <9801168876.AA887679734@compsci.powertech.co.uk> Message-ID: > Possibly. But I'm not convinced. I seem to remember the biggest IBM > 3090 system drew about 250kW (I'll have to look that up too!). I > imagine a typical system might draw perhaps 50kW. That is probably for a typical installation. The actual processor is nowhere near that value (still enough to make the utility very happy, however). A big string of DASDs adds up very fast, especially the power sucking IBM disks (why is that? Really big motors)? William Donzelli william@ans.net From mallison at konnections.com Mon Feb 16 11:57:10 1998 From: mallison at konnections.com (Mike Allison) Date: Sun Feb 27 18:32:02 2005 Subject: 64K kernel on C64 Message-ID: <34E87DF6.A0C@konnections.com> To whom it concerns: I'm forwarding this info on C64 stuff. I apologize upfront for quoting this rather large faq. You may drown me in beer at our next meeting... -Mike Adam Bauer wrote: > > As for the argument that you can't have a decent kernel in 64K, here is > Lunix, Linux for C64's.. > > http://wwwcip.rus.uni-stuttgart.de/~etk10217/lunix/lunix.html > (mirror) http://www.kuai.se/~mage/lunix/ > > While it does serve as an inspiration, maybe we can steal^H^H^H^H^Hborrow > some source? > > --- snip from README --- > > .d#M*#MHb\ > M? dH*" `Hb. > TM. ,MH' `M| > 9b. .MH' JM: LUnix-Version 0.1 patchlevel 3b > ?M, HM' ?M' =============================== > `*M#ML___.__,o#H'' Oct 5, 1996 > HH'"'"""*"'' > :M' > HP ,/# > |M' ,. `"` > dH .H .. .o. .ov\o\ ., .o, > ,, > ___. JM' d| H' ``dP `\. |? `H, > .d#' > .dM#**HMq\. ,MT ,P JT -M| || & `H? > ?M' > JP' ``9H\?M' || .H' M| || 6 `9b. ,HH' > MR `9M6 :? |M M| || M ?H, ?M' > HM JM*H\ `booov="9? M| || 9. `MHH" > `Hb. _dH' `*9b\. " |MT H. || ,HP>&o. > `#H###H"' `*##\. `' ' .,H*' `Hb. > `"#Hb\_ _?#*'' > "*&#o > "*Hbbo\__ __oo##*"" > "' > Index `"'***M=###booooobd##&*"""" > ============ ""' > > 1. What the hell is LUnix ? > > 2. How to start LUnix ? > > 3. Files/Applications comming with LUnix > > 3.1 The LUnix-Shell (sh0.exe, the default-shell) > 3.2 The LUnix-Netdriver > 3.3 The LUnix debugger LDB > > 4. Where can i get the lastest version of LUnix and/or updates, patches ? > > 5. Can i write my own LUnix-applications ? > > -------=============#####################################==============---- > --- > > 1. What the hell is LUnix ???? > ============================== > > LUnix is a new operating system for the Commodore64 (or C128 in C64-mode). > I started writing LUnix in 1994. The system core is a minimal > implementation of a multitasker. I followed an idea of A. Einstein, > who said: > > "Make is as simple as possible, but not simpler" > > I'd say LUnix tends to be a little bit too simple :-) > > - LUnix is a operating system for the C64 (no hardware expansions > required) > (LUnix stands for "little UNIX", well don't expect too much :) > LUnix doesn't support additional hardware yet, the next version will > be able to support external RAM (assuming someone will write a > modul/driver > for it). > > - LUnix provides real multitasking, so there can be more than one process > at a time. (Up to 32 processes. LUnix can't swap out stopped processes, > so all of them must fit into main memory at once. The next version will > support process-data in external RAM) > > - Using the termial-server "term9600" you can connect a terminal (via > RS232) > to your C64 and have a second user online on your C64. > > - Dynamic memory management. (only internal memory, bank0) > > - A small kernal but multipurpose. (well i hope so :-) > > What for, why ?? > ================ > > A real C64-freak always wants to do the impossible, thats one of > the main reasons, why i started writing LUnix. Many peaople think, that > UNIX (multitasking/multiuser) can only run on big workstations with lots > of megabytes RAM and gigabytes of discspace. I want to have (a kind of) > UNIX on my little C64, having only 64kbyte and a normal > 171kbyte-1541floppy. > My dream would be, that people agree with me, that this isn't only fun > but also makes sense. > > 2. How to start LUnix : > ======================= > > Get the archivefile "lunix01p3b.c64" into your C64 and run it. Its a self > extracting archive. Start it like a normal basic-programm, it will then > save all the lunix-files to device 8 of your C64 (e.g. your 1541-floppy). > After all the files have been extracted, you can start LUnix by using > the boot(-BASIC)-programm called "loader". > > load"lunix01p3b.c64",8 > ... > run > > then > > load"loader",8 > ... > run > > and follow the prompts. > > 3. Files comming with LUnix: > ============================ > > Systemfiles > ----------- > > loader o A BASIC programm that loads and starts LUnix. > > lunix.sys o The LUnix system core. > > bootdrv.drv o The bootdriver that the system will use to load the > first > command shell. > > init.exe o The screen manager (console) > > 3.1 Applications > ---------------- > > sh0.exe - sh0.exe > > Invokes another (sub-) command shell. > > a1541 - a1541 > Replaces the normal disc-driver by a > IRQ-loader. > You must enable this driver before accessing > the > RS232. (eg. before running "term9600"). > > cat * cat > > Prints a file to stdout. > > cd * cd > > Changes the working directory. > > count - count > > Counts up from <000> to <255> and put the > numbers > to stdout. Just makes some noise :) > > disk * disk > > Prints the disk-status information to stdout. > > echo * echo > > Prints text to stdout. > > hexconv - ... ! hexconv > > Converts decimal numbers from stdin > to > hex-numbers (stdout). Usable as a > filter. > E.g. "ps ! hexconv" > >> A "!" separates two (or more) commands so that > the > output of the first command will be used as > input > of the second command. > > kill - kill > > Kills a process. (PID=Process IDentification). > You > can get the PIDs by using the "ps"-command. > > ldb - ldb > > LUnix debugger. Details about its usage below. > > ls * ls [-l] > > Prints the disk-directory to stdout. > > man - man > > Prints a very little manual to stdout. > > mem - mem > > Prints a little statistic about the > system-memory > usage. > > memfree - memfree & > > Shows the amount of free memory in the > right > corner of the screen. You should start it > this > way: "memfree &" > > >> The "&" at the and of a line means that > the > command will run in the background and the > shell > won't wait till the execution is > completed. > > mirror - ... ! mirror > > It will mirror lines from stdin and put > them > (mirrored) to the stdout. (should only be > used > in combination with "!"). > > more * ... ! more > > Pass stdin to stdout, asks for a key > after > printing 11 lines. > > net.drv - net.drv > > Enables access to a local C64/128 > network. > (NID=Network IDentification of the local > computer). > > netstat - netstat > > Prints statistics about the C64/128 network. > > prim - prim , > > Prints n prime numbers beginning with a. > > ps - ps [-la] > Prints a report about (-a -> "all") processes > in > the system. The option "-l" will make 'ps' do > this > in a more detailed way. > > reboot * reboot > > Causes a RESET of the computer. > > renice * renice [[,]] > > Prints/changes the priority of a process. > > rm * rm > > Removes (deletes) a file. > > rsh - rsh > Calls for a shell on an other computer (NID) > in > the C64/128-net. > > rshserv - rshserv [-v] & > > Shellserver, serves shells to other computers > in > the C64/128-net. (Up to 4 at a time) > > tee * tee > > Writes stdin to a file. > > term9600 - term9600 [-v] & > > Terminalserver, serves shells to a > terminal > connected to the RS232. (uses a special > userport- > RS232-interface 9600Baud 8N1). Never forget > to > start "a1541" before starting the > terminal- > server !!! > > top - top > > Examines the system and print a sorted list > of > processes and their use of CPU time. SPACE > will > restart the examination, any other key ends > top. > > wc - ... ! wc > > Counts chars, words and line from stdin and > prints > a report to stdout. > > write - write [-q] > > Writes a massage to an other shell (PID of > that > shell has to be specified). CTRL+D ends > write. > > Remarks > ------- > > o = file can't be used as a LUnix command. > - = commands written by the author himself. > * = commands written by Paul Gardner from australia. > > As you might have noticed, there are no (very) usefull applications. > (exept ldb) Thats because i don't have that much fun writing applications > than writing kernel-code :-) > Usefull may be writing the directory into a file "ls ! tee filename" or > calculating some primenumbers and write them into a file > "prim 100,10 ! tee primenumers". Maybe you find it usefull to > translate all decimals in a textfile into hexadecimals, this would be > no problem "cat infile ! hexconv ! tee outfile". > > I plan to write a TCP/IP-stack for the next version of LUnix, that > would be something quite usefull i think. > > 3.2 The command shell (sh0.exe) > =============================== > > > will load and execute a command, wait till its done. > > ! { ! } > load all and execute them parallel, passing stdout of the first to stdin > of the second command and so on, wait till the last command is done. > > ... & > A "&" at the end of a command line lets the shell go on without waiting > till the command line is done. > > exit or CTRL+d > Ends a shell. > ( CTRL+d is the EOF0"end of file" charakter, it also ends wc, write, > hexconv,..) > > 3.3 The LUnix-net-driver : > ========================== > > The net-driver lets you connect up to 6 C64/128 all running > LUnix. > It sends and receives datapackets. There can be several virtual > connections > between all stations of the net at the same time. > The only service that is implemented yet, is a shell-serving process, > it > allows remote shells (up to 4 per computer). > (The net-sytem supports up to 7 services). > > What do i need to run this net-driver ? > --------------------------------------- > > - You should have at least one C64/128 > (but you'll have much more fun, if there are more of them) > > - You need at least LUnix_v0.1p2 . > and the following files : "net.drv","rshserv","rsh","netstat" > you can get all of them (and even more) for free through > the Internet (a list of addresses is appended to this file) > > - And you need a suitable cable ! (if you use more than 1 C64 :) > You have to connect (at least) GND, PB0, PB1, PB2, PB3, PB6 > (all from the C64's userport) of all C64 in the net, the software > supports up to 6 C64 (or C128) in the net. > > *** if you have only one discdrive you'll need a switch to connect/ > disconnect one of the pins to ground (eg. PB0). > Use a little resistor (about 470-1000 Ohms) to connect the > certain pin to ground. > If the connection is switched 'ON' all the communication > in the net is disabled. > > How to start it : > ----------------- > > - First unplug all the computers and discdrives/monitors... > > - Then connect the userport-pins (you should try to connect each GND-pin > first) > > *** only one discdrive: connect GND to the discdrive (!),to > prevent damage when connecting/disconnecting it to one computer > after the other later. > > - Now shitch them all on. > > - Load and start LUnix, > press 'add a session' ,type "net.drv X" X is the ID of the station. > This ID ranges from 1 to 6 (don't use the same ID twice !) > Then enable logins from other computers to this computer by starting > the remote-shell-server process by typing 'rshserv -v &' > (-v is not neccessary). > <-do this with every computer you have connected . > > Thats it ! The net is now active. > > How to use the net > ------------------ > > You can use the net to execute shells on other (or the local) computer. > > Just type "rsh X" (X- is the ID of the destination computer) > and you should get a 'remote shell' from that computer to work with :) > The actual 'rshserv' process enables up to 4 remote-logins at a time > (it doesn't matter from what computer you are calling) > > Type 'exit' to logout again. > > *** only one discdrive: > You can use one of the computer to work as server (this will be > the only computer with a discdrive later) > You just have to start "rsh"s on the other computer in direction > to the server. > But how to do that, if there is only on discdrive available ? > Thats what the mentioned shitch is for ! > > Switch 'ON' (and block all net actions), then connect the > discdrive to > one of the other computers and type "rsh Y" (Y is the servers ID) > connect the drive to the next computer...and so on...then connect > the > discdrive to the 'server' and switch 'OFF' !...... > > 3.4 ldb - LUnix debugger version 1.0 > ==================================== > > Available (commandline-) commands: > > b > break > Send character (ascii code 3) to debugged process. > > c > continue > Continue process (CTRL+s stopps it) > > d [[ mid: ] address ] > disassemble > Disassemble process-code (or any other memory address). > With no argument d continues disassembling at the last position. > Default for mid is the process' mid. > Address is the relative address in the mid-memory area or, if no > mid is given the address is relative/absolute/original to the > process' startaddress (as defined by the used with the 'm'-command). > > f dev:filename > file > Load exacutable file for debugging. > > h [[ mid: ] address ] > hexdump > Print a hexdump, syntax like 'd' > > i > info > Print process information > > m[aro] > mode > ma absolute memory addresses > mr relative memory addresses > mo original memory addresses > (display mode of disassembler) > > r [ args ] > run > Run a loaded process with 'args' as commandline parameters. > > s #signum > signal > Sends signal #signum to debugged process. > > t > tick > Lets the debugged process run for exactly one time slice. > (or till there is a 'jsr$$9012' in the code, wich can be used > like breakpoints for debugging) > NOTE: ldb waits till the process is interrupted while running > (if the process is blocked ldb will wait till it is > unblocked again) > > examples: > --------- > > @> ldb > LUnix Debug Version 1.0 > by Poldi 4.3.1996 > ldb> f @:prim { load 'prim' } > ldb> r 10000,10 { prim 10000,10 } > ldb> i {info} > pc=38:0046 sr=00 a=00 x=00 y=00 > { mid:reladr ,status register,akku,x-register,y-register } > stack 17 90 > { $9018=suicide is the return-address, if there is a rts } > zp 57 8d 38 35 30 3a 8e 00 59 2f 8d > { zero page starting with address $57: ...10 bytes } > ldb> d 38:46 > { begin disassembling at pc=38:0046 taken from info } > $c846 lda#$c8 > $c848 jsr$$9051 > $c84b jmp$$c991 > $c84e rts > $c84f lda#$00 > $c851 sta$$59 > $c853 sta$$5a > $c855 sta$$5b > $c857 sta$$5c > $c859 ldii$57 > ldb> mr { switch to relative-address-mode } > ldb> h 0 { hexdump starting at relative addr. 0 } > $0000 38 f5 fa fa 00 00 00 00 8UZZ.... > $0008 00 46 00 00 00 00 00 00 .f...... > $0010 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $0018 00 00 4c 1b 90 00 00 00 ..l..... > $0020 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $0028 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $0030 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $0038 50 52 49 4d 00 00 00 00 prim.... { 'prim' CMD name in the file } > $0040 17 27 00 00 80 00 a9 c8 .'....)h > $0048 20 51 90 4c 91 39 60 a9 q.l.9@) > ldb> f @:ldb { load 'ldb' } > ldb> mo { switch to original address-mode } > ldb> d { disassemble code } > $7000 38 00 00 00 40 57 06 00 8...@w.. > $7008 1c 40 00 00 00 00 00 00 .@...... > $7010 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7018 00 00 4c 48 70 4c 52 70 ..lhPlrP > $7020 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7028 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7030 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7038 4c 44 42 00 00 00 00 00 ldb..... > $7040 lda#$70 > $7042 jsr$$9051 > ldb> d { continue disassembling } > $7045 jmp$$79aa > $7048 se i > $7049 lda#$03 > $704b ldx$$7001 > $704e jsr$$902d > $7051 rti > $7052 jmp$$901b > $7055 pjp$$70a2 > $7058 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 01234567 > $7060 38 39 41 42 43 44 45 46 89abcdef > ldb> d { continue disassembling } > $7068 01 04 07 0a 0d 10 13 16 ........ > $7070 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7078 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7080 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7088 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7090 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $7098 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ........ > $70a0 00 00 .. > $70a2 and#$3f > $70a4 = $$70d2 > ldb> d { continue disassembling } > $70a6 cmp#$20 > $70a8 bcs$$70ac > $70aa ora#$40 > $70ac jsr$$9069 > $70af bcc$$70d2 > $70b1 jsr$$70b7 > $70b4 jmp$$901b > $70b7 bit$$7071 > $70ba bpl$$70d2 > $70bc lda$$7075 > ---------------------------------------- > ldb> f @:prim { load file 'prim' } > ldb> r 10000,10 { exec 'prim 10000,10' } > ldb> i { info } > pc=2d:0046 sr=00 a=00 x=00 y=00 > stack 17 90 > zp 57 38 a9 20 20 ac 38 a6 57 e8 86 > ldb> t { let prim run for one tick } > ldb> i { print info agin } > pc=2d:0170 sr=23 a=00 x=00 y=04 > stack 3d 2f 17 90 > zp 57 0a 00 d0 01 00 00 01 01 00 00 > ldb> t > ldb> i > pc=2d:0154 sr=23 a=00 x=00 y=07 > stack 3d 2f 17 90 > zp 57 0a 00 80 03 00 00 13 04 00 00 > ldb> t > ldb> i > pc=2d:0158 sr=23 a=00 x=00 y=02 > stack 3d 2f 17 90 > zp 57 0a 00 e4 00 00 00 af 01 00 00 > ldb> t > ldb> i > pc=2d:014b sr=22 a=ff x=00 y=0e > stack 3d 2f 17 90 > zp 57 0a 00 00 40 1c 00 17 27 00 00 > ldb> t > 10007 { a prime number calculated by prim after 5 ticks } > ldb> i > pc=2d:017b sr=21 a=00 x=09 y=04 > stack 3d 2f 17 90 > zp 57 09 00 60 02 00 00 79 01 00 00 > ldb> s > s #signum (1..16) > sends signal to process > ldb> s 7 { send signal 7 'killed parent' } > process doesn't support this signal > ldb> s 6 { send signal 6 'user break' } > ldb> t { another tick.. } > Process died { process caught the signal and ended } > ldb> i > No file loaded > ldb> x { exit from ldb .. back to shell } > @> > > disassembler notes: > ------------------- > The assemblersytax may look strange to you, because it is based on > an old assembler i wrote (it was easier to use it's disass-tables as > writing some new, wich i may do somewhen in future). > > lda#$12 > --- > parameter #12 is decimal, $12 hex, "a ascii,